From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon Mar 1 01:48:54 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 01:48:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9f600e0ae99b4d389b78ba9b8df7f58f.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Glad to see all went well! Now if we can just get the governor and AST to designate the Tillamook airport as a spaceport... :-) +McG+ > February 28th 2010 > > If there was a rating for todays weather in Tillamook, I'd be hard pressed > not to give at least an 8. More like a 9 or 10. Most people arrived by > 11:30. We got redirected to another gate, and got to park right on the > airport grounds, next to the flight light. Setup nearly completed by 12:00 > noon, and begin flying rockets. GSE was we had a rail at 200 feet, rail > and rod at 100 feet, and rods at 50 feet. Portable PA system worked fine > for the event. Special thank you to Steve Cutonilli, Keith Packard, Randy > Birzer, and John Lyngdal for bringing ground support equipment. > > With nice weather, we all come out. That includes pilots. We did have some > air traffic today. We held to the rules, and didn't create too many > delays. Cloud deck opened and closed throughout the event. Some > opportunities for higher flights at times. We were given the frequency of > Tillamook Traffic, and could hear in coming aircraft via the radios before > seeing them. This was extremely helpful. Big thank you to Warren, airport > manager, for his very positive welcome and how he wants to see more of > these activities at the airport. > > My one flight of the day was using, Back Off. Flew its 41st flight on a > G79 10W. Consistent 3000 feet flight. Back Off is a modified Aerotech > rocket. 36" long, 2.5" diameter, and painted blue. Recovery was short, at > about 75 feet from the flight line to the northwest. So pleased to see > Back Off fly again. If you only count vertical, Back Off flow vertical to > 23 miles. My favorite rocket, if you can't tell. > > Let's see if I can do this. Vehicles from left to right. Dale Colman, > Robert & Jacob Braibish, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Keith Packard, My self, > Mark Dunkle, Greg Clark, Randy Birzer, Richard Bremer (congrats for L1 > cert), Chris Guenther (and family), Rick Clapp, Fred Azinger (and better > half), Steve Cutonilli, Gwynn Danies, John Lyngdal > > OK; the details. Total of 28 flights today. > A1/2 - 1 > C - 3 > D - 2 (1 with 6 C's in cluster) > F - 1 > G - 8 > H - 6 > I - 4 > J - 4 > > Biggest motor of the day, Randy Birzer on J570 > Best flight of the day, Fred Azinger flying 1D and 6C motors on cluster. > Scored an altitude of 72 inches. > Best Quick Modification of the day, Greg Clark's Kermit rocket. His 10K+ > rocket, shrank, calling it Lil'Kermie. > > Our newest Tripoli level one goes to Richard Bremer. Welcome to level one, > get out your checkbook. > > Big thank you to Robert Nech for everything to find, secure and help with > access today. Deputy might yell at me; but here goes... Robert, one HELL > of a find. > > Cheers, > Robert > OregonRocket President > > Thank you everyone for making this a truly special day. Looking forward to > the next. Rocknech was a success!!! > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Mon Mar 1 04:17:55 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 04:17:55 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone available to witness a TARC qualifying flight at Sixty Acres this Sunday? In-Reply-To: <027001cab816$3a7a8620$af6f9260$@com> References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300496@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>, <027001cab816$3a7a8620$af6f9260$@com> Message-ID: Stopped by the field at 1pm but didn't see anyone, was hoping to watch. How did it go? I'm guessing you launched around 12:15pm, saw an exhaust trail on the way back from the dump that look to originate in the vicinity of 60 acres. -brad > From: sb at berfield.com > To: pmschurke at seattleschools.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:34:53 -0800 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Anyone available to witness a TARC qualifying flight at Sixty Acres this Sunday? > > I'd be glad to help out. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:24 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone available to witness a TARC qualifying flight at > Sixty Acres this Sunday? > > Hey all you Seattle Area NAR members, > > With the rules changes this year, the students can make three qualifying > attempts, but only two may be made after March 1. They're not really ready > to seriously try to qualify, but they're looking at their launch tomorrow as > an opportunity to get of a "freebie" qualifying flight. They only need an > observer. > > We plan to be arriving at 60 sometime around 1:00 pm. They'll probably take > a couple of practice shots before they do one for real. > > Any help would be appreciated. If no-one can make it, then I guess they'll > just have to do it the old-fashioned way...two flights in March. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Mon Mar 1 04:19:19 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 04:19:19 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to everyone for the feedback! -brad > From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:45 -0800 > Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request > > > I've been looking at various minimal diameter body tube rocket kits and came across their Fiberglass kits - http://v-serv.com/usr/fib.htm > > > > Anyone have any experience with US Rockets in general and / or their fiber glass kits? > > > > Thanks > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 08:11:57 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 08:11:57 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report In-Reply-To: <9f600e0ae99b4d389b78ba9b8df7f58f.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> References: <9f600e0ae99b4d389b78ba9b8df7f58f.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: My family and I had a wonderful time at Rocknech. I would like to send out a special thank you to Mrs. Clapp for making my wife feel welcome. Now she may actually attend a few more of the big launches. A thank you to all who had a hand in making this launch a success. I would also like to thank Robert K. and Robert B. (you guys know why, I will repay the favor sometime later this season). The weather was great for Tillamook this time of year. I flew a Naked Jack Hammer from Binder Designs on a 38mm I300T-M and suffered a small zipper when it drag separated, but was everything else was in tact and can be rebuilt easily. (I think I am going to take some weight out of the nose while I am at it.) I flew an estes Patriot with clear fins twice with my new 8" Home made chute on C6-7's the second flight looked great until the air frame dropped away from the chute. It landed hard on the tarmac and bounced. The chute and cone came down in a swampy mud puddle(thought I was going to sink try to get it.) The air frame suffered no damage and will fly again. I also flew a Sky Dart 1/2 A minimum diameter with a streamer a few times. We had a great time and would love to see this become a regular site and a few more times a year. We left for the beach and walked for a few hours till the kids could go no farther and then headed home. All in all a spectacular day. Chris Guenther On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:48 AM, wrote: > Glad to see all went well! > > Now if we can just get the governor and AST to designate the Tillamook > airport as a spaceport... :-) > +McG+ > > > > February 28th 2010 > > > > If there was a rating for todays weather in Tillamook, I'd be hard > pressed > > not to give at least an 8. More like a 9 or 10. Most people arrived by > > 11:30. We got redirected to another gate, and got to park right on the > > airport grounds, next to the flight light. Setup nearly completed by > 12:00 > > noon, and begin flying rockets. GSE was we had a rail at 200 feet, rail > > and rod at 100 feet, and rods at 50 feet. Portable PA system worked fine > > for the event. Special thank you to Steve Cutonilli, Keith Packard, Randy > > Birzer, and John Lyngdal for bringing ground support equipment. > > > > With nice weather, we all come out. That includes pilots. We did have > some > > air traffic today. We held to the rules, and didn't create too many > > delays. Cloud deck opened and closed throughout the event. Some > > opportunities for higher flights at times. We were given the frequency of > > Tillamook Traffic, and could hear in coming aircraft via the radios > before > > seeing them. This was extremely helpful. Big thank you to Warren, airport > > manager, for his very positive welcome and how he wants to see more of > > these activities at the airport. > > > > My one flight of the day was using, Back Off. Flew its 41st flight on a > > G79 10W. Consistent 3000 feet flight. Back Off is a modified Aerotech > > rocket. 36" long, 2.5" diameter, and painted blue. Recovery was short, at > > about 75 feet from the flight line to the northwest. So pleased to see > > Back Off fly again. If you only count vertical, Back Off flow vertical to > > 23 miles. My favorite rocket, if you can't tell. > > > > Let's see if I can do this. Vehicles from left to right. Dale Colman, > > Robert & Jacob Braibish, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Keith Packard, My self, > > Mark Dunkle, Greg Clark, Randy Birzer, Richard Bremer (congrats for L1 > > cert), Chris Guenther (and family), Rick Clapp, Fred Azinger (and better > > half), Steve Cutonilli, Gwynn Danies, John Lyngdal > > > > OK; the details. Total of 28 flights today. > > A1/2 - 1 > > C - 3 > > D - 2 (1 with 6 C's in cluster) > > F - 1 > > G - 8 > > H - 6 > > I - 4 > > J - 4 > > > > Biggest motor of the day, Randy Birzer on J570 > > Best flight of the day, Fred Azinger flying 1D and 6C motors on cluster. > > Scored an altitude of 72 inches. > > Best Quick Modification of the day, Greg Clark's Kermit rocket. His 10K+ > > rocket, shrank, calling it Lil'Kermie. > > > > Our newest Tripoli level one goes to Richard Bremer. Welcome to level > one, > > get out your checkbook. > > > > Big thank you to Robert Nech for everything to find, secure and help with > > access today. Deputy might yell at me; but here goes... Robert, one HELL > > of a find. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > OregonRocket President > > > > Thank you everyone for making this a truly special day. Looking forward > to > > the next. Rocknech was a success!!! > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 1 08:46:10 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:46:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report Message-ID: <18751994.1267461970726.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> As mentioned by others - Robert Nech and Robert the OROC prez deserve a special thanks for pulling this event off - this new Tillamook launch site will be a gem for up to modest class HPR and the proximity to PDX can't be beat. Thanks again for a fun time and let's hope we can do it again soon. /Steve From fred.azinger at intel.com Mon Mar 1 09:51:17 2010 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:51:17 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! Message-ID: Indeed it was a great weekend -- Kudos to Robert & Robert and to everyone else that helped make this launch a success.... What an awesome opener to what I hope is a long series of great launches. You couldn't have scheduled better weather. NO wind at the coast. Can we get that every time? A super event -- what a pleasant place to fire off my Small Endeavor with a H-123 and H-242. What a great location -- so close to home with a location that appeals to the better half! I have some photos to post of my infamous flight as well Lyngdal's penultimate. I managed to capture John's rocket hit apogee perfectly with my motor drive -- over 1s hang time! It was a bust weekend -- sorry had to fly and run and didn't get home in time to post anything. I'll try to get something together and get it posted tonight. Thanks again to all! More later, FredA PS: This place screams THUG ;-) From fred.azinger at intel.com Mon Mar 1 10:01:37 2010 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 10:01:37 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fat fingers--- BUSY weekend...far from a bust.... T and Y are right next to each other on the keyboard and what a difference in meaning. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Azinger, Fred Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:51 AM To: Robert Krausert; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! Indeed it was a great weekend -- Kudos to Robert & Robert and to everyone else that helped make this launch a success.... What an awesome opener to what I hope is a long series of great launches. You couldn't have scheduled better weather. NO wind at the coast. Can we get that every time? A super event -- what a pleasant place to fire off my Small Endeavor with a H-123 and H-242. What a great location -- so close to home with a location that appeals to the better half! I have some photos to post of my infamous flight as well Lyngdal's penultimate. I managed to capture John's rocket hit apogee perfectly with my motor drive -- over 1s hang time! It was a bust weekend -- sorry had to fly and run and didn't get home in time to post anything. I'll try to get something together and get it posted tonight. Thanks again to all! More later, FredA PS: This place screams THUG ;-) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winningstad at comcast.net Mon Mar 1 14:31:47 2010 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 14:31:47 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02d601cab98e$fb481420$f1d83c60$@net> Thx, Fred! Sounds GREAT...but my job has me working weekends...when I start racking them up and screaming deals, I can take some time :D Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Azinger, Fred Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:51 AM To: Robert Krausert; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! Indeed it was a great weekend -- Kudos to Robert & Robert and to everyone else that helped make this launch a success.... What an awesome opener to what I hope is a long series of great launches. You couldn't have scheduled better weather. NO wind at the coast. Can we get that every time? A super event -- what a pleasant place to fire off my Small Endeavor with a H-123 and H-242. What a great location -- so close to home with a location that appeals to the better half! I have some photos to post of my infamous flight as well Lyngdal's penultimate. I managed to capture John's rocket hit apogee perfectly with my motor drive -- over 1s hang time! It was a bust weekend -- sorry had to fly and run and didn't get home in time to post anything. I'll try to get something together and get it posted tonight. Thanks again to all! More later, FredA PS: This place screams THUG ;-) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From fred at azinger.com Mon Mar 1 14:49:23 2010 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 14:49:23 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: <02d601cab98e$fb481420$f1d83c60$@net> References: <02d601cab98e$fb481420$f1d83c60$@net> Message-ID: <007501cab991$70d08270$52718750$@com> Why the comment Dennis? ;-) Sorry, you missed a great one! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:32 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! Thx, Fred! Sounds GREAT...but my job has me working weekends...when I start racking them up and screaming deals, I can take some time :D Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Azinger, Fred Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:51 AM To: Robert Krausert; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! Indeed it was a great weekend -- Kudos to Robert & Robert and to everyone else that helped make this launch a success.... What an awesome opener to what I hope is a long series of great launches. You couldn't have scheduled better weather. NO wind at the coast. Can we get that every time? A super event -- what a pleasant place to fire off my Small Endeavor with a H-123 and H-242. What a great location -- so close to home with a location that appeals to the better half! I have some photos to post of my infamous flight as well Lyngdal's penultimate. I managed to capture John's rocket hit apogee perfectly with my motor drive -- over 1s hang time! It was a bust weekend -- sorry had to fly and run and didn't get home in time to post anything. I'll try to get something together and get it posted tonight. Thanks again to all! More later, FredA PS: This place screams THUG ;-) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From stefan_jones at comcast.net Mon Mar 1 15:50:04 2010 From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (Stefan Jones) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 23:50:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: <983036442.10135381267487311854.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I'm sorry I missed out on the launch, but hope to make it to the next one. Now . . . in addition to being good for OROC, this new field can be good for the hobby. Specifically, by helping recruit newbies. Is there a way to get in touch with scouting and school groups in the area, to let them know they can take advantage of OROC launches? Any hobby shops that we could encourage to do Build & Fly activity, such as the ones that Hillsboro Hobby has tried out? Stefan From winningstad at comcast.net Mon Mar 1 16:01:41 2010 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:01:41 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <983036442.10135381267487311854.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <02e801cab99b$8ab81630$a0284290$@net> Sorry, Stefan, there are no schools, scouts, hobby shops or groups in Tillamook... :( Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Jones Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 3:50 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! I'm sorry I missed out on the launch, but hope to make it to the next one. Now . . . in addition to being good for OROC, this new field can be good for the hobby. Specifically, by helping recruit newbies. Is there a way to get in touch with scouting and school groups in the area, to let them know they can take advantage of OROC launches? Any hobby shops that we could encourage to do Build & Fly activity, such as the ones that Hillsboro Hobby has tried out? Stefan _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 16:14:12 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:14:12 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: <02e801cab99b$8ab81630$a0284290$@net> References: <983036442.10135381267487311854.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <02e801cab99b$8ab81630$a0284290$@net> Message-ID: Sorry, Stefan, there are no schools, scouts, hobby shops or groups in Tillamook... :( Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 Nope Just a bunch O Bak words igits dat tinks dat rockets R a Grate Teem! LOL ...:-P On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Dennis S Winningstad < winningstad at comcast.net> wrote: > Sorry, Stefan, there are no schools, scouts, hobby shops or groups in > Tillamook... :( > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Stefan Jones > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 3:50 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! > > I'm sorry I missed out on the launch, but hope to make it to the next one. > > Now . . . in addition to being good for OROC, this new field can be good > for > the hobby. > > Specifically, by helping recruit newbies. > > Is there a way to get in touch with scouting and school groups in the area, > to let them know they can take advantage of OROC launches? > > Any hobby shops that we could encourage to do Build & Fly activity, such as > the ones that Hillsboro Hobby has tried out? > > Stefan > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Mon Mar 1 16:18:27 2010 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:18:27 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <983036442.10135381267487311854.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368857FA3FDCED@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> There was a Tillamook TARC team a year or so ago, finding their team mentor might be a start. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Jones Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 3:50 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! I'm sorry I missed out on the launch, but hope to make it to the next one. Now . . . in addition to being good for OROC, this new field can be good for the hobby. Specifically, by helping recruit newbies. Is there a way to get in touch with scouting and school groups in the area, to let them know they can take advantage of OROC launches? Any hobby shops that we could encourage to do Build & Fly activity, such as the ones that Hillsboro Hobby has tried out? Stefan _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From seth.wallace at rocketmail.com Mon Mar 1 16:20:51 2010 From: seth.wallace at rocketmail.com (Seth Wallace) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:20:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <881621.24511.qm@web65313.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> I wasn't paying attention to the list or I would have been there for sure, what a great location, I can easily turn that into a family pleasing weekend RV trip for sure... When is the next one!!! SW --- On Mon, 3/1/10, Stefan Jones wrote: From: Stefan Jones Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 3:50 PM I'm sorry I missed out on the launch, but hope to make it to the next one. Now . . . in addition to being good for OROC, this new field can be good for the hobby. Specifically, by helping recruit newbies. Is there a way to get in touch with scouting and school groups in the area, to let them know they can take advantage of OROC launches? Any hobby shops that we could encourage to do Build & Fly activity, such as the ones that Hillsboro Hobby has tried out? Stefan _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From robert.krausert at intel.com Mon Mar 1 16:23:00 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:23:00 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368857FA3FDCED@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <983036442.10135381267487311854.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368857FA3FDCED@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59934714@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> There is a high school teach there in Tillamook that promotes rocketry all the time. Even mentioned on the Tillamook school district web site. There have also been scouts flying at the airport, long before us being there. I'd be happy to share the word. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:18 PM To: stefan_jones at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! There was a Tillamook TARC team a year or so ago, finding their team mentor might be a start. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Jones Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 3:50 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! I'm sorry I missed out on the launch, but hope to make it to the next one. Now . . . in addition to being good for OROC, this new field can be good for the hobby. Specifically, by helping recruit newbies. Is there a way to get in touch with scouting and school groups in the area, to let them know they can take advantage of OROC launches? Any hobby shops that we could encourage to do Build & Fly activity, such as the ones that Hillsboro Hobby has tried out? Stefan _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From robert.krausert at intel.com Mon Mar 1 16:25:06 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:25:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: References: <983036442.10135381267487311854.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <02e801cab99b$8ab81630$a0284290$@net> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E5993471D@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Not sure what you mean Chris. Stephan's idea makes sense. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:14 PM To: Dennis S Winningstad Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! Sorry, Stefan, there are no schools, scouts, hobby shops or groups in Tillamook... :( Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 Nope Just a bunch O Bak words igits dat tinks dat rockets R a Grate Teem! LOL ...:-P On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Dennis S Winningstad < winningstad at comcast.net> wrote: > Sorry, Stefan, there are no schools, scouts, hobby shops or groups in > Tillamook... :( > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Stefan Jones > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 3:50 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! > > I'm sorry I missed out on the launch, but hope to make it to the next one. > > Now . . . in addition to being good for OROC, this new field can be good > for > the hobby. > > Specifically, by helping recruit newbies. > > Is there a way to get in touch with scouting and school groups in the area, > to let them know they can take advantage of OROC launches? > > Any hobby shops that we could encourage to do Build & Fly activity, such as > the ones that Hillsboro Hobby has tried out? > > Stefan > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From seth.wallace at rocketmail.com Mon Mar 1 16:25:55 2010 From: seth.wallace at rocketmail.com (Seth Wallace) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:25:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: <881621.24511.qm@web65313.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <632532.59270.qm@web65316.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> I accidentally said "For Sure" twice in my last post. It was purely by accident, I'm not a valley girl... SW --- On Mon, 3/1/10, Seth Wallace wrote: From: Seth Wallace Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! To: rockets at rocketsnw.com, "Stefan Jones" Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 4:20 PM I wasn't paying attention to the list or I would have been there for sure, what a great location, I can easily turn that into a family pleasing weekend RV trip for sure... When is the next one!!! SW --- On Mon, 3/1/10, Stefan Jones wrote: From: Stefan Jones Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 3:50 PM I'm sorry I missed out on the launch, but hope to make it to the next one. Now . . . in addition to being good for OROC, this new field can be good for the hobby. Specifically, by helping recruit newbies. Is there a way to get in touch with scouting and school groups in the area, to let them know they can take advantage of OROC launches? Any hobby shops that we could encourage to do Build & Fly activity, such as the ones that Hillsboro Hobby has tried out? Stefan _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 16:42:12 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:42:12 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E5993471D@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <983036442.10135381267487311854.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <800290698.10135841267487404134.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <02e801cab99b$8ab81630$a0284290$@net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E5993471D@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: I was Joking Back T Dennis's comment... The Idea is a very good one. Anything that will help promote rocketry as a safe and sane hobby to the younger generation and even the the older ones is a good thing. If there is anything I can do to help let me know. This is a great site and much easier to get to and from then BRRA from PDX. Also what are the rules mentoring a group of kids? I have a youth group through my Church that are very interested and want me to teach them how to make and fly rockets. They also want me to introduce them to the world of High Power. Can they be made into a TARC team? On another note I was by Tammies getting parts to fix the zipper in my Jack Hammer and noticed that they do not have our flier out anywhere and non of their people could find any stored. Should I drop some off in the morning when I go in to talk to Duane about ordering some of the new Areotech hardware? Chris Guenther On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Krausert, Robert wrote: > Not sure what you mean Chris. Stephan's idea makes sense. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:14 PM > To: Dennis S Winningstad > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! > > Sorry, Stefan, there are no schools, scouts, hobby shops or groups in > Tillamook... :( > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > Nope Just a bunch O Bak words igits dat tinks dat rockets R a Grate Teem! > LOL ...:-P > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Dennis S Winningstad < > winningstad at comcast.net> wrote: > > > Sorry, Stefan, there are no schools, scouts, hobby shops or groups in > > Tillamook... :( > > > > Dennis S Winningstad > > 503-781-3529 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > > On Behalf Of Stefan Jones > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 3:50 PM > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thanks OROC!!! > > > > I'm sorry I missed out on the launch, but hope to make it to the next > one. > > > > Now . . . in addition to being good for OROC, this new field can be good > > for > > the hobby. > > > > Specifically, by helping recruit newbies. > > > > Is there a way to get in touch with scouting and school groups in the > area, > > to let them know they can take advantage of OROC launches? > > > > Any hobby shops that we could encourage to do Build & Fly activity, such > as > > the ones that Hillsboro Hobby has tried out? > > > > Stefan > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From fred at azinger.com Mon Mar 1 20:24:23 2010 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 20:24:23 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted Message-ID: <002101cab9c0$3d406450$b7c12cf0$@com> Sorry, Didn't have a lot of time to edit and be fancy. I posted a 3 minute video made from shots this weekend. In the order they were taken...again nothing fancy. The motor-drive sequence is at 9fps or 111ms per photo. Enjoy, FredA See it at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2033 WMV: 720P at 30fps... From rwjcom at comcast.net Mon Mar 1 21:11:24 2010 From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 21:11:24 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <8CC8288E8B0E0EA-3094-B318@webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC8288E8B0E0EA-3094-B318@webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Lou, Thanks for your reply. Sorry to be getting back to you late, but that work thing has been keeping me pretty tied up. Anyway, you touched on one of my points of confusion regarding the use of a removable e-bay that is entirely inside the body tube. You explained how the force of deployment is transfered through the e- bay from one harness to the other by the threaded rods. That all makes good sense and I have my head around that. Where I can not quite get my head to close the loop is on the deployment of the drogue, and those cases where things do not go quite as planned. When the drogue deploys, and befor the main deploys, isn't the force from the drogue harness transfered by the mechanical fasteners that hold the e-bay to the body tube? If, in a moment of inattention, a careless rocketeer reversed his wires and the main deployed at apogee, or if the drogue charge failed for some reason to deploy the drogue chute at apogee and the main deployed at high velocity (not unheard of from what I hear), don't all of those forces end up been borne by the three or four small fasteners? Seems like a lot of load on some pretty small points. I know that stuff should never happen so I am just speaking hypothetically of course. I really do like the idea of keeping the body tube as one long unbroken piece, but am not quite convinced that for a rocket that is intended to be a durable flyer that I am comfortable going down this path given my understanding of the thing. Thanks again, Bob On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:20 AM, ibelchloud at aol.com wrote: > > Bob, > > I mount my ebays using 3 or 4 screws per chute compartment through > the airframe and the coupler. Number of screws is dependent on > number of fins as I just extend the marks up the tube. Most if not > all ebays are constructed using at least one piece of threaded rod > running through the bay which the endcaps are mounted on then > tightened with nuts of some sort. This rod transfers all force of > recovery through it so the screws holding the bay to the body tube > have little to no force on them. And the eyebolts transfer that > force to the rod. So using the better eyebolts eliminates a failure > point. Brad W. has personal experience with that failure I believe > as have many others. I use U-bolts when I can, they are cheaper > than forged eyebolts and weigh the same. Plus I can get them at the > local hardware store and not have to order from McMaster. > > I mount my switches inside my bay and access them through a vent > hole. I either mount the switch directly to the board itself or use > a piece of brass strip bent around to line up with the hole. Other > people have an inch or so wide band of airframe mounted to the > coupler and they mount the switch to that so it is on the outside of > the airframe easier to activate. > > As far as sealing the ebay, my first one had the bottom plates > epoxied to the coupler and that works great. However the last few I > have done, I've been lazy and let both sides be free and haven't > seen any evidence of ejection gasses. I would strongly recommend > using a coupler cap over a single cap that fits inside the coupler. > Check out Binder Design's site for the former style and LOC's > website for the latter style. > > I use to like that idea of transferring bays from rocket to rocket > but soon found out what a pain in the ass it was to line up existing > holes in couplers to drill new holes in the airframe. I actually > gave up before I got all that far. Just bought more ebay parts and > have one bay for each bird. Just buy Mike's kits around Christmas > and you will be set. > > Hope that helps some, keep the questions coming! > > Lou From sb at berfield.com Mon Mar 1 21:51:19 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 21:51:19 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: References: <8CC8288E8B0E0EA-3094-B318@webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00ac01cab9cc$61fa21d0$25ee6570$@com> The way I have taken to doing it is to have the bottom part of the rocket as a "zipperless" design. The drogue bay slips onto the exposed coupler. The ebay slips halfway into the top of that section and is fastened using small machine screws into captive nuts. The Parachute bay slips over the other half of the ebay and is fastened in the same fashion. The ebay itself has threaded rod holding the bulkheads in place and u-bolts are used for the shock cord connections. Drogue deployment happens when the rear section is kicked out. Main deploys when the nosecone is blown. This is pretty similar to what others do except I use two tubes for the bays rather than one tube with the ebay down inside it. I used this design for my L3 (6" diameter, 11' tall). The first launch had an early deployment of the drogue and a fairly nasty zipper of the drogue bay body tube -- but the screws holding the ebay in place showed no evidence of stress. I have since used this same setup on my Competitor 4" and my Eagle Claw and am doing the same for my 75mm min diameter. If you want a drawing or pics, email me directly and I will send directly to you. Scott -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob Jimerson Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:11 PM To: ibelchloud at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Lou, Thanks for your reply. Sorry to be getting back to you late, but that work thing has been keeping me pretty tied up. Anyway, you touched on one of my points of confusion regarding the use of a removable e-bay that is entirely inside the body tube. You explained how the force of deployment is transfered through the e- bay from one harness to the other by the threaded rods. That all makes good sense and I have my head around that. Where I can not quite get my head to close the loop is on the deployment of the drogue, and those cases where things do not go quite as planned. When the drogue deploys, and befor the main deploys, isn't the force from the drogue harness transfered by the mechanical fasteners that hold the e-bay to the body tube? If, in a moment of inattention, a careless rocketeer reversed his wires and the main deployed at apogee, or if the drogue charge failed for some reason to deploy the drogue chute at apogee and the main deployed at high velocity (not unheard of from what I hear), don't all of those forces end up been borne by the three or four small fasteners? Seems like a lot of load on some pretty small points. I know that stuff should never happen so I am just speaking hypothetically of course. I really do like the idea of keeping the body tube as one long unbroken piece, but am not quite convinced that for a rocket that is intended to be a durable flyer that I am comfortable going down this path given my understanding of the thing. Thanks again, Bob On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:20 AM, ibelchloud at aol.com wrote: > > Bob, > > I mount my ebays using 3 or 4 screws per chute compartment through > the airframe and the coupler. Number of screws is dependent on > number of fins as I just extend the marks up the tube. Most if not > all ebays are constructed using at least one piece of threaded rod > running through the bay which the endcaps are mounted on then > tightened with nuts of some sort. This rod transfers all force of > recovery through it so the screws holding the bay to the body tube > have little to no force on them. And the eyebolts transfer that > force to the rod. So using the better eyebolts eliminates a failure > point. Brad W. has personal experience with that failure I believe > as have many others. I use U-bolts when I can, they are cheaper > than forged eyebolts and weigh the same. Plus I can get them at the > local hardware store and not have to order from McMaster. > > I mount my switches inside my bay and access them through a vent > hole. I either mount the switch directly to the board itself or use > a piece of brass strip bent around to line up with the hole. Other > people have an inch or so wide band of airframe mounted to the > coupler and they mount the switch to that so it is on the outside of > the airframe easier to activate. > > As far as sealing the ebay, my first one had the bottom plates > epoxied to the coupler and that works great. However the last few I > have done, I've been lazy and let both sides be free and haven't > seen any evidence of ejection gasses. I would strongly recommend > using a coupler cap over a single cap that fits inside the coupler. > Check out Binder Design's site for the former style and LOC's > website for the latter style. > > I use to like that idea of transferring bays from rocket to rocket > but soon found out what a pain in the ass it was to line up existing > holes in couplers to drill new holes in the airframe. I actually > gave up before I got all that far. Just bought more ebay parts and > have one bay for each bird. Just buy Mike's kits around Christmas > and you will be set. > > Hope that helps some, keep the questions coming! > > Lou _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Mon Mar 1 22:08:12 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 22:08:12 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] "worlds largest amateur rocket" ?? Message-ID: <00ad01cab9ce$bde78a30$39b69e90$@com> http://gizmodo.com/5483239/the-worlds-largest-amateur-rocket-is-almost-as-la rge-as-a-v+2 From sb at berfield.com Mon Mar 1 22:09:14 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 22:09:14 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <470B597B-C500-4475-AB28-3B404FF60AB7@gmail.com> References: <8CC8288E8B0E0EA-3094-B318@webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com> <00ac01cab9cc$61fa21d0$25ee6570$@com> <470B597B-C500-4475-AB28-3B404FF60AB7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00b201cab9ce$e3050900$a90f1b00$@com> I will probably bring in the 75 project too. -----Original Message----- From: David Randall [mailto:dmrandall at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 10:01 PM To: Scott Berfield Cc: Bob Jimerson; ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Bob, I will have my little dog at the march meeting. You can see the force on the various parts of the eBay and how they are transferred under stress. It will help bring the story together I am sure. Dave On Mar 1, 2010, at 9:51 PM, "Scott Berfield" wrote: > The way I have taken to doing it is to have the bottom part of the > rocket as > a "zipperless" design. The drogue bay slips onto the exposed > coupler. The > ebay slips halfway into the top of that section and is fastened > using small > machine screws into captive nuts. The Parachute bay slips over the > other > half of the ebay and is fastened in the same fashion. The ebay > itself has > threaded rod holding the bulkheads in place and u-bolts are used for > the > shock cord connections. Drogue deployment happens when the rear > section is > kicked out. Main deploys when the nosecone is blown. This is pretty > similar > to what others do except I use two tubes for the bays rather than > one tube > with the ebay down inside it. I used this design for my L3 (6" > diameter, 11' > tall). The first launch had an early deployment of the drogue and a > fairly > nasty zipper of the drogue bay body tube -- but the screws holding > the ebay > in place showed no evidence of stress. I have since used this same > setup on > my Competitor 4" and my Eagle Claw and am doing the same for my 75mm > min > diameter. > > If you want a drawing or pics, email me directly and I will send > directly to > you. > > Scott > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- > bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bob Jimerson > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:11 PM > To: ibelchloud at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and > Attachement > > Lou, > > Thanks for your reply. Sorry to be getting back to you late, but that > work thing has been keeping me pretty tied up. > > Anyway, you touched on one of my points of confusion regarding the use > of a removable e-bay that is entirely inside the body tube. > > You explained how the force of deployment is transfered through the e- > bay from one harness to the other by the threaded rods. That all > makes good sense and I have my head around that. Where I can not > quite get my head to close the loop is on the deployment of the > drogue, and those cases where things do not go quite as planned. When > the drogue deploys, and befor the main deploys, isn't the force from > the drogue harness transfered by the mechanical fasteners that hold > the e-bay to the body tube? > > If, in a moment of inattention, a careless rocketeer reversed his > wires and the main deployed at apogee, or if the drogue charge failed > for some reason to deploy the drogue chute at apogee and the main > deployed at high velocity (not unheard of from what I hear), don't all > of those forces end up been borne by the three or four small > fasteners? Seems like a lot of load on some pretty small points. I > know that stuff should never happen so I am just speaking > hypothetically of course. > > I really do like the idea of keeping the body tube as one long > unbroken piece, but am not quite convinced that for a rocket that is > intended to be a durable flyer that I am comfortable going down this > path given my understanding of the thing. > > Thanks again, > > Bob > > > > > On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:20 AM, ibelchloud at aol.com wrote: > >> >> Bob, >> >> I mount my ebays using 3 or 4 screws per chute compartment through >> the airframe and the coupler. Number of screws is dependent on >> number of fins as I just extend the marks up the tube. Most if not >> all ebays are constructed using at least one piece of threaded rod >> running through the bay which the endcaps are mounted on then >> tightened with nuts of some sort. This rod transfers all force of >> recovery through it so the screws holding the bay to the body tube >> have little to no force on them. And the eyebolts transfer that >> force to the rod. So using the better eyebolts eliminates a failure >> point. Brad W. has personal experience with that failure I believe >> as have many others. I use U-bolts when I can, they are cheaper >> than forged eyebolts and weigh the same. Plus I can get them at the >> local hardware store and not have to order from McMaster. >> >> I mount my switches inside my bay and access them through a vent >> hole. I either mount the switch directly to the board itself or use >> a piece of brass strip bent around to line up with the hole. Other >> people have an inch or so wide band of airframe mounted to the >> coupler and they mount the switch to that so it is on the outside of >> the airframe easier to activate. >> >> As far as sealing the ebay, my first one had the bottom plates >> epoxied to the coupler and that works great. However the last few I >> have done, I've been lazy and let both sides be free and haven't >> seen any evidence of ejection gasses. I would strongly recommend >> using a coupler cap over a single cap that fits inside the coupler. >> Check out Binder Design's site for the former style and LOC's >> website for the latter style. >> >> I use to like that idea of transferring bays from rocket to rocket >> but soon found out what a pain in the ass it was to line up existing >> holes in couplers to drill new holes in the airframe. I actually >> gave up before I got all that far. Just bought more ebay parts and >> have one bay for each bird. Just buy Mike's kits around Christmas >> and you will be set. >> >> Hope that helps some, keep the questions coming! >> >> Lou > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmrandall at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 22:01:01 2010 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (David Randall) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 22:01:01 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <00ac01cab9cc$61fa21d0$25ee6570$@com> References: <8CC8288E8B0E0EA-3094-B318@webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com> <00ac01cab9cc$61fa21d0$25ee6570$@com> Message-ID: <470B597B-C500-4475-AB28-3B404FF60AB7@gmail.com> Bob, I will have my little dog at the march meeting. You can see the force on the various parts of the eBay and how they are transferred under stress. It will help bring the story together I am sure. Dave On Mar 1, 2010, at 9:51 PM, "Scott Berfield" wrote: > The way I have taken to doing it is to have the bottom part of the > rocket as > a "zipperless" design. The drogue bay slips onto the exposed > coupler. The > ebay slips halfway into the top of that section and is fastened > using small > machine screws into captive nuts. The Parachute bay slips over the > other > half of the ebay and is fastened in the same fashion. The ebay > itself has > threaded rod holding the bulkheads in place and u-bolts are used for > the > shock cord connections. Drogue deployment happens when the rear > section is > kicked out. Main deploys when the nosecone is blown. This is pretty > similar > to what others do except I use two tubes for the bays rather than > one tube > with the ebay down inside it. I used this design for my L3 (6" > diameter, 11' > tall). The first launch had an early deployment of the drogue and a > fairly > nasty zipper of the drogue bay body tube -- but the screws holding > the ebay > in place showed no evidence of stress. I have since used this same > setup on > my Competitor 4" and my Eagle Claw and am doing the same for my 75mm > min > diameter. > > If you want a drawing or pics, email me directly and I will send > directly to > you. > > Scott > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- > bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bob Jimerson > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:11 PM > To: ibelchloud at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and > Attachement > > Lou, > > Thanks for your reply. Sorry to be getting back to you late, but that > work thing has been keeping me pretty tied up. > > Anyway, you touched on one of my points of confusion regarding the use > of a removable e-bay that is entirely inside the body tube. > > You explained how the force of deployment is transfered through the e- > bay from one harness to the other by the threaded rods. That all > makes good sense and I have my head around that. Where I can not > quite get my head to close the loop is on the deployment of the > drogue, and those cases where things do not go quite as planned. When > the drogue deploys, and befor the main deploys, isn't the force from > the drogue harness transfered by the mechanical fasteners that hold > the e-bay to the body tube? > > If, in a moment of inattention, a careless rocketeer reversed his > wires and the main deployed at apogee, or if the drogue charge failed > for some reason to deploy the drogue chute at apogee and the main > deployed at high velocity (not unheard of from what I hear), don't all > of those forces end up been borne by the three or four small > fasteners? Seems like a lot of load on some pretty small points. I > know that stuff should never happen so I am just speaking > hypothetically of course. > > I really do like the idea of keeping the body tube as one long > unbroken piece, but am not quite convinced that for a rocket that is > intended to be a durable flyer that I am comfortable going down this > path given my understanding of the thing. > > Thanks again, > > Bob > > > > > On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:20 AM, ibelchloud at aol.com wrote: > >> >> Bob, >> >> I mount my ebays using 3 or 4 screws per chute compartment through >> the airframe and the coupler. Number of screws is dependent on >> number of fins as I just extend the marks up the tube. Most if not >> all ebays are constructed using at least one piece of threaded rod >> running through the bay which the endcaps are mounted on then >> tightened with nuts of some sort. This rod transfers all force of >> recovery through it so the screws holding the bay to the body tube >> have little to no force on them. And the eyebolts transfer that >> force to the rod. So using the better eyebolts eliminates a failure >> point. Brad W. has personal experience with that failure I believe >> as have many others. I use U-bolts when I can, they are cheaper >> than forged eyebolts and weigh the same. Plus I can get them at the >> local hardware store and not have to order from McMaster. >> >> I mount my switches inside my bay and access them through a vent >> hole. I either mount the switch directly to the board itself or use >> a piece of brass strip bent around to line up with the hole. Other >> people have an inch or so wide band of airframe mounted to the >> coupler and they mount the switch to that so it is on the outside of >> the airframe easier to activate. >> >> As far as sealing the ebay, my first one had the bottom plates >> epoxied to the coupler and that works great. However the last few I >> have done, I've been lazy and let both sides be free and haven't >> seen any evidence of ejection gasses. I would strongly recommend >> using a coupler cap over a single cap that fits inside the coupler. >> Check out Binder Design's site for the former style and LOC's >> website for the latter style. >> >> I use to like that idea of transferring bays from rocket to rocket >> but soon found out what a pain in the ass it was to line up existing >> holes in couplers to drill new holes in the airframe. I actually >> gave up before I got all that far. Just bought more ebay parts and >> have one bay for each bird. Just buy Mike's kits around Christmas >> and you will be set. >> >> Hope that helps some, keep the questions coming! >> >> Lou > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From ibelchloud at aol.com Tue Mar 2 01:46:45 2010 From: ibelchloud at aol.com (ibelchloud at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 04:46:45 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: References: <8CC8288E8B0E0EA-3094-B318@webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC880467144D5E-2A7C-1D73@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> I am not sure on your first question. I can say that on all of my ebays there have been no signs of any stress on the screws whatsoever on all my nominal flights. For some reason it just works. Careless rocketeer, I resemble that remark! I had a main at apogee and a beautiful drogue deployment at 700 feet on one of my flights. At least I wasn't the only one that day! The only damage sustained is a small zipper in the main compartment. The ebay screws and holes had no damage. As far as non drogue deploy goes a bunch of other stuff is messed up in the process so an ebay ripping out is low down on the list of things. I shredded a bird once and it ripped off both airframe sections at the ends of the ebay. The screws were still holding a couple of inches of airframe to the coupler when I picked it up. This was with a cardboard airframe though. I used a single upper airframe for my main flier, Skeletor, when I built it. Personally I would use two pieces if you plan to fly the bird more than one time a day. Durability wise, single piece is the way to go. No airframe break to act upon on landings or agressive flights. Sliding the ebay up the tube and aligning the holes gets to be a pain especially after multiple charge firings dirtying up the tube however. Did that help in anyway? Lou -----Original Message----- From: Bob Jimerson To: ibelchloud at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Mar 1, 2010 9:11 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Lou, Thanks for your reply. Sorry to be getting back to you late, but that work thing has been keeping me pretty tied up. Anyway, you touched on one of my points of confusion regarding the use of a removable e-bay that is entirely inside the body tube. You explained how the force of deployment is transfered through the e-bay from one harness to the other by the threaded rods. That all makes good sense and I have my head around that. Where I can not quite get my head to close the loop is on the deployment of the drogue, and those cases where things do not go quite as planned. When the drogue deploys, and befor the main deploys, isn't the force from the drogue harness transfered by the mechanical fasteners that hold the e-bay to the body tube? If, in a moment of inattention, a careless rocketeer reversed his wires and the main deployed at apogee, or if the drogue charge failed for some reason to deploy the drogue chute at apogee and the main deployed at high velocity (not unheard of from what I hear), don't all of those forces end up been borne by the three or four small fasteners? Seems like a lot of load on some pretty small points. I know that stuff should never happen so I am just speaking hypothetically of course. I really do like the idea of keeping the body tube as one long unbroken piece, but am not quite convinced that for a rocket that is intended to be a durable flyer that I am comfortable going down this path given my understanding of the thing. Thanks again, Bob On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:20 AM, ibelchloud at aol.com wrote: Bob, I mount my ebays using 3 or 4 screws per chute compartment through the airframe and the coupler. Number of screws is dependent on number of fins as I just extend the marks up the tube. Most if not all ebays are constructed using at least one piece of threaded rod running through the bay which the endcaps are mounted on then tightened with nuts of some sort. This rod transfers all force of recovery through it so the screws holding the bay to the body tube have little to no force on them. And the eyebolts transfer that force to the rod. So using the better eyebolts eliminates a failure point. Brad W. has personal experience with that failure I believe as have many others. I use U-bolts when I can, they are cheaper than forged eyebolts and weigh the same. Plus I can get them at the local hardware store and not have to order from McMaster. I mount my switches inside my bay and access them through a vent hole. I either mount the switch directly to the board itself or use a piece of brass strip bent around to line up with the hole. Other people have an inch or so wide band of airframe mounted to the coupler and they mount the switch to that so it is on the outside of the airframe easier to activate. As far as sealing the ebay, my first one had the bottom plates epoxied to the coupler and that works great. However the last few I have done, I've been lazy and let both sides be free and haven't seen any evidence of ejection gasses. I would strongly recommend using a coupler cap over a single cap that fits inside the coupler. Check out Binder Design's site for the former style and LOC's website for the latter style. I use to like that idea of transferring bays from rocket to rocket but soon found out what a pain in the ass it was to line up existing holes in couplers to drill new holes in the airframe. I actually gave up before I got all that far. Just bought more ebay parts and have one bay for each bird. Just buy Mike's kits around Christmas and you will be set. Hope that helps some, keep the questions coming! Lou = From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 07:24:36 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 07:24:36 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted In-Reply-To: <002101cab9c0$3d406450$b7c12cf0$@com> References: <002101cab9c0$3d406450$b7c12cf0$@com> Message-ID: Fred With the video being marked private we can not view it. Chris Guenther On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Fred Azinger wrote: > Sorry, > > Didn't have a lot of time to edit and be fancy. > > I posted a 3 minute video made from shots this weekend. > > In the order they were taken...again nothing fancy. > > The motor-drive sequence is at 9fps or 111ms per photo. > > Enjoy, > > FredA > > > > See it at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2033 > > WMV: 720P at 30fps... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From fred at azinger.com Tue Mar 2 07:28:25 2010 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 07:28:25 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted In-Reply-To: References: <002101cab9c0$3d406450$b7c12cf0$@com> Message-ID: <003e01caba1d$00811d40$018357c0$@com> Guys.....Robert posted the video and had some "issues." He is going to post it again, hopefully addressing the problems... Stay tuned. Sorry From: Christopher Guenther [mailto:guentherchristopher at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 7:25 AM To: Fred Azinger Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted Fred With the video being marked private we can not view it. Chris Guenther On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Fred Azinger wrote: Sorry, Didn't have a lot of time to edit and be fancy. I posted a 3 minute video made from shots this weekend. In the order they were taken...again nothing fancy. The motor-drive sequence is at 9fps or 111ms per photo. Enjoy, FredA See it at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2033 WMV: 720P at 30fps... _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 2 08:35:30 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 08:35:30 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <8CC880467144D5E-2A7C-1D73@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC8288E8B0E0EA-3094-B318@webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com> <8CC880467144D5E-2A7C-1D73@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00d501caba26$6006ea70$2014bf50$@com> I had one last year at XPRS that failed to deploy at apogee and popped out the main at 500 feet -- when it was moving about 250 MPH. Agree that ebay attachment wasn't a big concern at that point. Interesting sound when the chute exploded though.... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of ibelchloud at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 1:47 AM To: rwjcom at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement I am not sure on your first question. I can say that on all of my ebays there have been no signs of any stress on the screws whatsoever on all my nominal flights. For some reason it just works. Careless rocketeer, I resemble that remark! I had a main at apogee and a beautiful drogue deployment at 700 feet on one of my flights. At least I wasn't the only one that day! The only damage sustained is a small zipper in the main compartment. The ebay screws and holes had no damage. As far as non drogue deploy goes a bunch of other stuff is messed up in the process so an ebay ripping out is low down on the list of things. I shredded a bird once and it ripped off both airframe sections at the ends of the ebay. The screws were still holding a couple of inches of airframe to the coupler when I picked it up. This was with a cardboard airframe though. I used a single upper airframe for my main flier, Skeletor, when I built it. Personally I would use two pieces if you plan to fly the bird more than one time a day. Durability wise, single piece is the way to go. No airframe break to act upon on landings or agressive flights. Sliding the ebay up the tube and aligning the holes gets to be a pain especially after multiple charge firings dirtying up the tube however. Did that help in anyway? Lou -----Original Message----- From: Bob Jimerson To: ibelchloud at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Mar 1, 2010 9:11 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Lou, Thanks for your reply. Sorry to be getting back to you late, but that work thing has been keeping me pretty tied up. Anyway, you touched on one of my points of confusion regarding the use of a removable e-bay that is entirely inside the body tube. You explained how the force of deployment is transfered through the e-bay from one harness to the other by the threaded rods. That all makes good sense and I have my head around that. Where I can not quite get my head to close the loop is on the deployment of the drogue, and those cases where things do not go quite as planned. When the drogue deploys, and befor the main deploys, isn't the force from the drogue harness transfered by the mechanical fasteners that hold the e-bay to the body tube? If, in a moment of inattention, a careless rocketeer reversed his wires and the main deployed at apogee, or if the drogue charge failed for some reason to deploy the drogue chute at apogee and the main deployed at high velocity (not unheard of from what I hear), don't all of those forces end up been borne by the three or four small fasteners? Seems like a lot of load on some pretty small points. I know that stuff should never happen so I am just speaking hypothetically of course. I really do like the idea of keeping the body tube as one long unbroken piece, but am not quite convinced that for a rocket that is intended to be a durable flyer that I am comfortable going down this path given my understanding of the thing. Thanks again, Bob On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:20 AM, ibelchloud at aol.com wrote: Bob, I mount my ebays using 3 or 4 screws per chute compartment through the airframe and the coupler. Number of screws is dependent on number of fins as I just extend the marks up the tube. Most if not all ebays are constructed using at least one piece of threaded rod running through the bay which the endcaps are mounted on then tightened with nuts of some sort. This rod transfers all force of recovery through it so the screws holding the bay to the body tube have little to no force on them. And the eyebolts transfer that force to the rod. So using the better eyebolts eliminates a failure point. Brad W. has personal experience with that failure I believe as have many others. I use U-bolts when I can, they are cheaper than forged eyebolts and weigh the same. Plus I can get them at the local hardware store and not have to order from McMaster. I mount my switches inside my bay and access them through a vent hole. I either mount the switch directly to the board itself or use a piece of brass strip bent around to line up with the hole. Other people have an inch or so wide band of airframe mounted to the coupler and they mount the switch to that so it is on the outside of the airframe easier to activate. As far as sealing the ebay, my first one had the bottom plates epoxied to the coupler and that works great. However the last few I have done, I've been lazy and let both sides be free and haven't seen any evidence of ejection gasses. I would strongly recommend using a coupler cap over a single cap that fits inside the coupler. Check out Binder Design's site for the former style and LOC's website for the latter style. I use to like that idea of transferring bays from rocket to rocket but soon found out what a pain in the ass it was to line up existing holes in couplers to drill new holes in the airframe. I actually gave up before I got all that far. Just bought more ebay parts and have one bay for each bird. Just buy Mike's kits around Christmas and you will be set. Hope that helps some, keep the questions coming! Lou = _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Simpsonclark at aol.com Tue Mar 2 08:54:59 2010 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:54:59 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] "worlds largest amateur rocket" ?? Message-ID: <5e40b.3e41eb96.38be9ce3@aol.com> Check out _WWW.copenhagensuborbitals.com_ (http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com) for more -Robert In a message dated 3/1/2010 10:08:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, sb at berfield.com writes: http://gizmodo.com/5483239/the-worlds-largest-amateur-rocket-is-almost-as-la rge-as-a-v+2 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 2 09:47:52 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 09:47:52 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] "worlds largest amateur rocket" ?? In-Reply-To: <5e40b.3e41eb96.38be9ce3@aol.com> References: <5e40b.3e41eb96.38be9ce3@aol.com> Message-ID: <00f001caba30$7da321c0$78e96540$@com> That's quite a project. I wish them luck. From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:55 AM To: sb at berfield.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] "worlds largest amateur rocket" ?? Check out WWW.copenhagensuborbitals.com for more -Robert In a message dated 3/1/2010 10:08:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, sb at berfield.com writes: http://gizmodo.com/5483239/the-worlds-largest-amateur-rocket-is-almost-as-la rge-as-a-v+2 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From AStack at jasperengines.com Tue Mar 2 10:48:47 2010 From: AStack at jasperengines.com (Adam Stack) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 13:48:47 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] List posting for level 2 cert flight Message-ID: <4B8CED0F020000D70000084E@jasperoes03.jasper.jasperengines.com> Hello, My name is Adam Stack and I have been an OROC member for a few years now. I will be attempting a level 2 certification flight at the May launch in Brothers and I will need a member to administer the test to me and witnesses to verify the launch. I will be going for the NAR level 2. The rocket is a BSD 4" horizon that has flown successfully on various H and I motors. I will be using motor ejection for the flight. I have already downloaded the level 2 question pool and I am sutdying them. Thanks in advance for the help! Adam Stack Adam Stack Factory Representative Southern and Central Oregon Jasper Engines and Transmissions 1-800-827-7455 x1247 From rwjcom at comcast.net Tue Mar 2 13:42:30 2010 From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 21:42:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <1234768718.11401551267563930307.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1340204015.11422471267566150671.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Lou, Let me try again and see if I can say what I was trying to say but say it better than last time.? It seems that until both sets of recovery harnesses are deployed, all of the force acting on the e-bay get's transfered to the airframe attached to the ebay via three of four small points. On a nominal flight this is probably a pretty small force , just the front half of the rocket coming tight against the cord as the drogue deploys.? Unless there is a lot of mass or velocity at play these?should be ?pretty manageable loads for the fasteners and the materials that they penetrate. Once both sets of chutes deploy, the ebay and attached body tube just become a great big not- so- quick link between the upper and the lower harnesses and the combination of threaded rods and eye/U-bolts.? The body tube itself is pretty light weight in most cases, so the forces on the fasteners from changes in direction caused by the chutes pulling on the ebay are probably modest. It is the non-nominal cases that are producing?my brain cramp.? Those main- at- apogee or unintentionally drogueless flights?seem like they would generate a lot of energy that ends up getting applied to small points where the screws penetrate the body tube and attach to the ebay.? Big forces on a few small points?where small bits of metal pass through a thin body tube seem like a point where the system would fail well before the rest of the system was even stressed much.? It all sounds a bit like shear pins gone wrong.? I've read about the need to back up shear pin holes with metal reinforcements to keep the nylon pins from elongating their holes and losing their grip.? If thin nylon shear pins are going to tear up a body tube with normal ejection forces, what are steel screws going to do to the same materials under larger forces? Again, I am imagining all of this. I know that folks that know their stuff are comfortable with the method and use it on their personal projects; I am not doubting that it works, and works well.? I'm just chasing some personal learning?I guess. Best, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: ibelchloud at aol.com To: rwjcom at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:46:45 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement I am not sure on your first question.? I can say that on all of my ebays there have been no signs of any stress on the screws?whatsoever on all my nominal flights.? For some reason it just works. From rwjcom at comcast.net Tue Mar 2 13:59:36 2010 From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 21:59:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <2000836330.11427411267566787887.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <410366823.11431651267567176995.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Thanks Scott.? Unfortulately I am not going to? be able to make this month's meeting. I am leaning towards using?a two piece design very similar to what you describe.? A "zipperless" deign for the back half where the fin section sperates from the body tube over a coupler for the drogue.? For the main, I am thinking of pushing the combined forward body tube and nosecone off of the ebay in one?piece (nosecone and body tube fastened together somehow).? I'll probably end up using an inch or so of body tube around the middle of the ebay for mounting arming switches and static ports. Since I am still suffering from rookie overbuilding syndrom to a degree, I was looking at a 12" long ebay on this 4" rocket to keep everything nice and strong in the middle. Best, Bob? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" To: "Bob Jimerson" , ibelchloud at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 1, 2010 9:51:19 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and????????Attachement The way I have taken to doing it is to have the bottom part of the rocket as a "zipperless" design. The drogue bay slips onto the exposed coupler. The ebay slips halfway into the top of that section and is fastened using small machine screws into captive nuts. The Parachute bay slips over the other half of the ebay and is fastened in the same fashion. The ebay itself has threaded rod holding the bulkheads in place and u-bolts are used for the shock cord connections. Drogue deployment happens when the rear section is kicked out. Main deploys when the nosecone is blown. This is pretty similar to what others do except I use two tubes for the bays rather than one tube with the ebay down inside it. I used this design for my L3 (6" diameter, 11' tall). The first launch had an early deployment of the drogue and a fairly nasty zipper of the drogue bay body tube -- but the screws holding the ebay in place showed no evidence of stress. I have since used this same setup on my Competitor 4" and my Eagle Claw and am doing the same for my 75mm min diameter. From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 2 14:38:00 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:38:00 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <1340204015.11422471267566150671.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1234768718.11401551267563930307.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1340204015.11422471267566150671.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <015301caba59$03e6bf30$0bb43d90$@com> One difference between steel screws (or even aluminum) in this scenario vs sheer pins is that the screws are tightened so that you have a fairly large clamping surface as opposed to shear pins which only loosely hold things in the one axis. I would imagine that repeated foobar flights would eventually damage the body tube, but frankly, if you are planning on that many screw-ups, you might want to re-think things :) The only messed up deployment scenario I can see where it would be a problem would be if a chute came out at speed. In which case, this is likely not your biggest problem. What failure modes are you foreseeing that would be catastrophic? Assume that a bad deployment causes a massive jerk to the system such that somehow the screws are ripped through the outer body tube and the ebay comes free (very unlikely). OK - your body tube is horked, but you still have a complete system from nosecone to tail attached via shock cord and all thread and it all comes down together. And if you are deploying in a way that produces that much shock, you probably have just done a ton of damage to way more than the screw holes! All that said, you should definitely design in a way that you are comfortable with and if you think you see a flaw in how others do things, be sure to point it out and offer your ideas. None of us has the "right" solution, and as you may be noticing, every question you ask will get a BUNCH of varying answers. The best thing to do is try things, learn from failures, push the boundaries and share what you come up with. -sb -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob Jimerson Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 1:43 PM To: ibelchloud at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Lou, Let me try again and see if I can say what I was trying to say but say it better than last time. It seems that until both sets of recovery harnesses are deployed, all of the force acting on the e-bay get's transfered to the airframe attached to the ebay via three of four small points. On a nominal flight this is probably a pretty small force , just the front half of the rocket coming tight against the cord as the drogue deploys. Unless there is a lot of mass or velocity at play these should be pretty manageable loads for the fasteners and the materials that they penetrate. Once both sets of chutes deploy, the ebay and attached body tube just become a great big not- so- quick link between the upper and the lower harnesses and the combination of threaded rods and eye/U-bolts. The body tube itself is pretty light weight in most cases, so the forces on the fasteners from changes in direction caused by the chutes pulling on the ebay are probably modest. It is the non-nominal cases that are producing my brain cramp. Those main- at- apogee or unintentionally drogueless flights seem like they would generate a lot of energy that ends up getting applied to small points where the screws penetrate the body tube and attach to the ebay. Big forces on a few small points where small bits of metal pass through a thin body tube seem like a point where the system would fail well before the rest of the system was even stressed much. It all sounds a bit like shear pins gone wrong. I've read about the need to back up shear pin holes with metal reinforcements to keep the nylon pins from elongating their holes and losing their grip. If thin nylon shear pins are going to tear up a body tube with normal ejection forces, what are steel screws going to do to the same materials under larger forces? Again, I am imagining all of this. I know that folks that know their stuff are comfortable with the method and use it on their personal projects; I am not doubting that it works, and works well. I'm just chasing some personal learning I guess. Best, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: ibelchloud at aol.com To: rwjcom at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:46:45 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement I am not sure on your first question. I can say that on all of my ebays there have been no signs of any stress on the screws whatsoever on all my nominal flights. For some reason it just works. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 2 14:41:35 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:41:35 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] March mtg Message-ID: <015401caba59$83d65d40$8b8317c0$@com> Is this one at MSFT? From carl at mousetrap.com Tue Mar 2 14:47:25 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:47:25 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] March mtg In-Reply-To: <015401caba59$83d65d40$8b8317c0$@com> References: <015401caba59$83d65d40$8b8317c0$@com> Message-ID: Yes, the Washington Aerospace March meeting will be held at the Microsoft campus in Redmond. More details to follow... - Carl On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > Is this one at MSFT? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 14:49:56 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:49:56 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] List posting for level 2 cert flight In-Reply-To: <4B8CED0F020000D70000084E@jasperoes03.jasper.jasperengines.com> References: <4B8CED0F020000D70000084E@jasperoes03.jasper.jasperengines.com> Message-ID: Adam One thing I found when I was getting ready for my L2 was that the NAR website has 2 different versions of the question pool, one older and out dated and the other is the new version. Make sure you are studying the right one. I can not commit to being a witness at this time as the launch date is still a couple months away, but would be happy to if needed. There are plenty of people within the club that can do that for you. As for taking the test I would get in touch with either Steven Tarr or George Rachor. Chris Guenther On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Adam Stack wrote: > Hello, > > My name is Adam Stack and I have been an OROC member for a few years now. I > will be attempting a level 2 certification flight at the May launch in > Brothers and I will need a member to administer the test to me and witnesses > to verify the launch. I will be going for the NAR level 2. The rocket is a > BSD 4" horizon that has flown successfully on various H and I motors. I will > be using motor ejection for the flight. I have already downloaded the level > 2 question pool and I am sutdying them. Thanks in advance for the help! > > Adam Stack > > Adam Stack > Factory Representative > Southern and Central Oregon > Jasper Engines and Transmissions > 1-800-827-7455 > x1247 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Tue Mar 2 15:04:49 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 18:04:49 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Message-ID: <29e00.75044abb.38bef391@aol.com> Because the screws are tightened, the load is transferred more or less evenly to the airframe, much different than shear pins. I've done it this way, but I hate lining up holes and threading screws every time I need to prep. That's why the Binder Design avionics bay was developed, because I like easy prep with less steps, and arming switch external without sticking objects into the bay. Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 3/2/2010 1:43:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, rwjcom at comcast.net writes: Lou, Let me try again and see if I can say what I was trying to say but say it better than last time. It seems that until both sets of recovery harnesses are deployed, all of the force acting on the e-bay get's transfered to the airframe attached to the ebay via three of four small points. On a nominal flight this is probably a pretty small force , just the front half of the rocket coming tight against the cord as the drogue deploys. Unless there is a lot of mass or velocity at play these should be pretty manageable loads for the fasteners and the materials that they penetrate. Once both sets of chutes deploy, the ebay and attached body tube just become a great big not- so- quick link between the upper and the lower harnesses and the combination of threaded rods and eye/U-bolts. The body tube itself is pretty light weight in most cases, so the forces on the fasteners from changes in direction caused by the chutes pulling on the ebay are probably modest. It is the non-nominal cases that are producing my brain cramp. Those main- at- apogee or unintentionally drogueless flights seem like they would generate a lot of energy that ends up getting applied to small points where the screws penetrate the body tube and attach to the ebay. Big forces on a few small points where small bits of metal pass through a thin body tube seem like a point where the system would fail well before the rest of the system was even stressed much. It all sounds a bit like shear pins gone wrong. I've read about the need to back up shear pin holes with metal reinforcements to keep the nylon pins from elongating their holes and losing their grip. If thin nylon shear pins are going to tear up a body tube with normal ejection forces, what are steel screws going to do to the same materials under larger forces? Again, I am imagining all of this. I know that folks that know their stuff are comfortable with the method and use it on their personal projects; I am not doubting that it works, and works well. I'm just chasing some personal learning I guess. Best, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: ibelchloud at aol.com To: rwjcom at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:46:45 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement I am not sure on your first question. I can say that on all of my ebays there have been no signs of any stress on the screws whatsoever on all my nominal flights. For some reason it just works. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Tue Mar 2 15:32:14 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (bwhitemarsh at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 23:32:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <410366823.11431651267567176995.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1880156608.10228871267572734423.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Darn, Bob, that's too bad about missing?this month's meeting.? One of the rocket talk topics is electronics bays.? Would have been good to get some "hands on" looks at some people's e-bay designs.? As has been pointed out, the main thing that is keeping things together is that the e-bay screws are actually snugging the airframe to the coupler.? If you are using t-nuts or some other positive threads inside the e-bay, you can actually clamp those screws down pretty tight.? This increased surface area makes the connection much stronger.? I have never seen any damage at these stress points, including after flights with rather short kevlar shock cords and on one flight were some moron put the electronics in upside down, leading to apogee deployment of the main on a too short kevlar shock cord.? I think I screwed that flight up in all the ways you're planning on screwing yours up, and it worked just fine :)? The extra strength of the connection due to friction from tight screws has actually been the cause of deployment failures.? If you decide to use nylon screws for your shear pins, remember to?make one of the holes (usually the one on the inside [coupler] tube) for each screw larger than the diameter of the screw, so you can't use the sheer pin to snug the airframe to the coupler.? This can increase the friction to the point that you get deployment failure in the same way that tightening the screws on the e-bay keep it from failing.? Hope that helps. Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Jimerson" To: "Scott Berfield" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:59:36 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and????????Attachement Thanks Scott.? Unfortulately I am not going to? be able to make this month's meeting. I am leaning towards using?a two piece design very similar to what you describe.? A "zipperless" deign for the back half where the fin section sperates from the body tube over a coupler for the drogue.? For the main, I am thinking of pushing the combined forward body tube and nosecone off of the ebay in one?piece (nosecone and body tube fastened together somehow).? I'll probably end up using an inch or so of body tube around the middle of the ebay for mounting arming switches and static ports. Since I am still suffering from rookie overbuilding syndrom to a degree, I was looking at a 12" long ebay on this 4" rocket to keep everything nice and strong in the middle. Best, Bob? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" To: "Bob Jimerson" , ibelchloud at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 1, 2010 9:51:19 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and????????Attachement The way I have taken to doing it is to have the bottom part of the rocket as a "zipperless" design. The drogue bay slips onto the exposed coupler. The ebay slips halfway into the top of that section and is fastened using small machine screws into captive nuts. The Parachute bay slips over the other half of the ebay and is fastened in the same fashion. The ebay itself has threaded rod holding the bulkheads in place and u-bolts are used for the shock cord connections. Drogue deployment happens when the rear section is kicked out. Main deploys when the nosecone is blown. This is pretty similar to what others do except I use two tubes for the bays rather than one tube with the ebay down inside it. I used this design for my L3 (6" diameter, 11' tall). The first launch had an early deployment of the drogue and a fairly nasty zipper of the drogue bay body tube -- but the screws holding the ebay in place showed no evidence of stress. I have since used this same setup on my Competitor 4" and my Eagle Claw and am doing the same for my 75mm min diameter. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From tnetcenter at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 15:27:41 2010 From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:27:41 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement References: <410366823.11431651267567176995.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: You might want to consider pushing just the nosecone and main chute out instead of the combined upper body tube/nosecone. That way you actually push the chute out with the nosecone in front of it instead of trying to pull it out the back of the upper body tube. A minor point but I think that positively pushing out the laundry rather than relying on the separation forces pulling it out is more reliable. I've seen more than several launches in which the main parachute stayed in the body tube while the works continued to fall (hopefully under a drogue). It's a real crowd pleaser when the chute finally comes out (IF it comes out), but for a dual deployment scenario, that's pushing the envelope since the main deployment is already done close to the ground. Jeff Moore BORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Jimerson" [snip] I am leaning towards using a two piece design very similar to what you describe. A "zipperless" deign for the back half where the fin section sperates from the body tube over a coupler for the drogue. For the main, I am thinking of pushing the combined forward body tube and nosecone off of the ebay in one piece (nosecone and body tube fastened together somehow). I'll probably end up using an inch or so of body tube around the middle of the ebay for mounting arming switches and static ports. Since I am still suffering from rookie overbuilding syndrom to a degree, I was looking at a 12" long ebay on this 4" rocket to keep everything nice and strong in the middle. Best, Bob From rwjcom at comcast.net Tue Mar 2 16:13:39 2010 From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 00:13:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <400116700.11494671267574821648.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <264328275.11498141267575219292.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Yeah, I wish I could be there, but duty calls.? Part of which will be delivering a new rocket kit to my nephew that he'll be building for FITS.? Weekend won't be a total loss ;-) Your comments along with Scott's, Mike's and others on this last round helped a lot in defeating the straw man I had built for myself.? To paraphrase what Scott said, if things so?wrong that the ebay gets ripped from the body tube, that is probably not going to be listed as the cause of death on the autopsy report anyway. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net To: "Bob Jimerson" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2010 3:32:14 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Darn, Bob, that's too bad about missing?this month's meeting.? One of the rocket talk topics is electronics bays.? Would have been good to get some "hands on" looks at some people's e-bay designs.? As has been pointed out, the main thing that is keeping things together is that the e-bay screws are actually snugging the airframe to the coupler.? If you are using t-nuts or some other positive threads inside the e-bay, you can actually clamp those screws down pretty tight.? This increased surface area makes the connection much stronger.? I have never seen any damage at these stress points, including after flights with rather short kevlar shock cords and on one flight were some moron put the electronics in upside down, leading to apogee deployment of the main on a too short kevlar shock cord.? I think I screwed that flight up in all the ways you're planning on screwing yours up, and it worked just fine :)? The extra strength of the connection due to friction from tight screws has actually been the cause of deployment failures.? If you decide to use nylon screws for your shear pins, remember to?make one of the holes (usually the one on the inside [coupler] tube) for each screw larger than the diameter of the screw, so you can't use the sheer pin to snug the airframe to the coupler.? This can increase the friction to the point that you get deployment failure in the same way that tightening the screws on the e-bay keep it from failing.? Hope that helps. Bryan ?? From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 2 16:44:14 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:44:14 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <1880156608.10228871267572734423.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <410366823.11431651267567176995.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1880156608.10228871267572734423.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <018901caba6a$a62f2e10$f28d8a30$@com> I just put a couple more pics up of my in progress ebay. Mostly of the sled setup. NO wiring yet, but it's getting there. Note -- many people do this MUCH better than I do. http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject# -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 3:32 PM To: Bob Jimerson Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Darn, Bob, that's too bad about missing this month's meeting. One of the rocket talk topics is electronics bays. Would have been good to get some "hands on" looks at some people's e-bay designs. As has been pointed out, the main thing that is keeping things together is that the e-bay screws are actually snugging the airframe to the coupler. If you are using t-nuts or some other positive threads inside the e-bay, you can actually clamp those screws down pretty tight. This increased surface area makes the connection much stronger. I have never seen any damage at these stress points, including after flights with rather short kevlar shock cords and on one flight were some moron put the electronics in upside down, leading to apogee deployment of the main on a too short kevlar shock cord. I think I screwed that flight up in all the ways you're planning on screwing yours up, and it worked just fine :) The extra strength of the connection due to friction from tight screws has actually been the cause of deployment failures. If you decide to use nylon screws for your shear pins, remember to make one of the holes (usually the one on the inside [coupler] tube) for each screw larger than the diameter of the screw, so you can't use the sheer pin to snug the airframe to the coupler. This can increase the friction to the point that you get deployment failure in the same way that tightening the screws on the e-bay keep it from failing. Hope that helps. Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Jimerson" To: "Scott Berfield" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:59:36 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Thanks Scott. Unfortulately I am not going to be able to make this month's meeting. I am leaning towards using a two piece design very similar to what you describe. A "zipperless" deign for the back half where the fin section sperates from the body tube over a coupler for the drogue. For the main, I am thinking of pushing the combined forward body tube and nosecone off of the ebay in one piece (nosecone and body tube fastened together somehow). I'll probably end up using an inch or so of body tube around the middle of the ebay for mounting arming switches and static ports. Since I am still suffering from rookie overbuilding syndrom to a degree, I was looking at a 12" long ebay on this 4" rocket to keep everything nice and strong in the middle. Best, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" To: "Bob Jimerson" , ibelchloud at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 1, 2010 9:51:19 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement The way I have taken to doing it is to have the bottom part of the rocket as a "zipperless" design. The drogue bay slips onto the exposed coupler. The ebay slips halfway into the top of that section and is fastened using small machine screws into captive nuts. The Parachute bay slips over the other half of the ebay and is fastened in the same fashion. The ebay itself has threaded rod holding the bulkheads in place and u-bolts are used for the shock cord connections. Drogue deployment happens when the rear section is kicked out. Main deploys when the nosecone is blown. This is pretty similar to what others do except I use two tubes for the bays rather than one tube with the ebay down inside it. I used this design for my L3 (6" diameter, 11' tall). The first launch had an early deployment of the drogue and a fairly nasty zipper of the drogue bay body tube -- but the screws holding the ebay in place showed no evidence of stress. I have since used this same setup on my Competitor 4" and my Eagle Claw and am doing the same for my 75mm min diameter. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 17:13:13 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:13:13 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: <018901caba6a$a62f2e10$f28d8a30$@com> References: <410366823.11431651267567176995.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1880156608.10228871267572734423.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <018901caba6a$a62f2e10$f28d8a30$@com> Message-ID: Scott I like your ebay setup. It is looks good. I do however have one questions. Why are you setting up alternate apogee and main wire harness sites and not just wiring straight to the ones on the altimeters themselves? Chris Guenther On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I just put a couple more pics up of my in progress ebay. Mostly of the sled > setup. NO wiring yet, but it's getting there. Note -- many people do this > MUCH better than I do. > > http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject# > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of bwhitemarsh at comcast.net > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 3:32 PM > To: Bob Jimerson > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and > Attachement > > > > Darn, Bob, that's too bad about missing this month's meeting. One of the > rocket talk topics is electronics bays. Would have been good to get some > "hands on" looks at some people's e-bay designs. > > > > As has been pointed out, the main thing that is keeping things together is > that the e-bay screws are actually snugging the airframe to the coupler. If > you are using t-nuts or some other positive threads inside the e-bay, you > can actually clamp those screws down pretty tight. This increased surface > area makes the connection much stronger. I have never seen any damage at > these stress points, including after flights with rather short kevlar shock > cords and on one flight were some moron put the electronics in upside down, > leading to apogee deployment of the main on a too short kevlar shock cord. > I think I screwed that flight up in all the ways you're planning on > screwing yours up, and it worked just fine :) > > > The extra strength of the connection due to friction from tight screws has > actually been the cause of deployment failures. If you decide to use nylon > screws for your shear pins, remember to make one of the holes (usually the > one on the inside [coupler] tube) for each screw larger than the diameter of > the screw, so you can't use the sheer pin to snug the airframe to the > coupler. This can increase the friction to the point that you get > deployment failure in the same way that tightening the screws on the e-bay > keep it from failing. > > > > Hope that helps. > > > > Bryan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Jimerson" > To: "Scott Berfield" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:59:36 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and > Attachement > > > > Thanks Scott. Unfortulately I am not going to be able to make this > month's meeting. > > > > I am leaning towards using a two piece design very similar to what you > describe. A "zipperless" deign for the back half where the fin section > sperates from the body tube over a coupler for the drogue. For the main, I > am thinking of pushing the combined forward body tube and nosecone off of > the ebay in one piece (nosecone and body tube fastened together somehow). > I'll probably end up using an inch or so of body tube around the middle of > the ebay for mounting arming switches and static ports. > > > > Since I am still suffering from rookie overbuilding syndrom to a degree, I > was looking at a 12" long ebay on this 4" rocket to keep everything nice and > strong in the middle. > > > > Best, > > > > > > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Berfield" > To: "Bob Jimerson" , ibelchloud at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Monday, March 1, 2010 9:51:19 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and > Attachement > > The way I have taken to doing it is to have the bottom part of the rocket > as > a "zipperless" design. The drogue bay slips onto the exposed coupler. The > ebay slips halfway into the top of that section and is fastened using small > machine screws into captive nuts. The Parachute bay slips over the other > half of the ebay and is fastened in the same fashion. The ebay itself has > threaded rod holding the bulkheads in place and u-bolts are used for the > shock cord connections. Drogue deployment happens when the rear section is > kicked out. Main deploys when the nosecone is blown. This is pretty similar > to what others do except I use two tubes for the bays rather than one tube > with the ebay down inside it. I used this design for my L3 (6" diameter, > 11' > tall). The first launch had an early deployment of the drogue and a fairly > nasty zipper of the drogue bay body tube -- but the screws holding the ebay > in place showed no evidence of stress. I have since used this same setup on > my Competitor 4" and my Eagle Claw and am doing the same for my 75mm min > diameter. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 2 17:17:33 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:17:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement In-Reply-To: References: <410366823.11431651267567176995.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1880156608.10228871267572734423.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <018901caba6a$a62f2e10$f28d8a30$@com> Message-ID: <019a01caba6f$4df29480$e9d7bd80$@com> It is a lot easier to manage the connections to the larger terminal blocks than to the small terminals on the altimeters - particularly on the Raven which is very teeny. It also makes it much easier to hook things up and slide the sled into the tube with less risk of jerking something loose since the main connections are at the ends. From: Christopher Guenther [mailto:guentherchristopher at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 5:13 PM To: Scott Berfield Cc: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net; Bob Jimerson; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Scott I like your ebay setup. It is looks good. I do however have one questions. Why are you setting up alternate apogee and main wire harness sites and not just wiring straight to the ones on the altimeters themselves? Chris Guenther On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: I just put a couple more pics up of my in progress ebay. Mostly of the sled setup. NO wiring yet, but it's getting there. Note -- many people do this MUCH better than I do. http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject# -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 3:32 PM To: Bob Jimerson Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Darn, Bob, that's too bad about missing this month's meeting. One of the rocket talk topics is electronics bays. Would have been good to get some "hands on" looks at some people's e-bay designs. As has been pointed out, the main thing that is keeping things together is that the e-bay screws are actually snugging the airframe to the coupler. If you are using t-nuts or some other positive threads inside the e-bay, you can actually clamp those screws down pretty tight. This increased surface area makes the connection much stronger. I have never seen any damage at these stress points, including after flights with rather short kevlar shock cords and on one flight were some moron put the electronics in upside down, leading to apogee deployment of the main on a too short kevlar shock cord. I think I screwed that flight up in all the ways you're planning on screwing yours up, and it worked just fine :) The extra strength of the connection due to friction from tight screws has actually been the cause of deployment failures. If you decide to use nylon screws for your shear pins, remember to make one of the holes (usually the one on the inside [coupler] tube) for each screw larger than the diameter of the screw, so you can't use the sheer pin to snug the airframe to the coupler. This can increase the friction to the point that you get deployment failure in the same way that tightening the screws on the e-bay keep it from failing. Hope that helps. Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Jimerson" To: "Scott Berfield" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:59:36 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement Thanks Scott. Unfortulately I am not going to be able to make this month's meeting. I am leaning towards using a two piece design very similar to what you describe. A "zipperless" deign for the back half where the fin section sperates from the body tube over a coupler for the drogue. For the main, I am thinking of pushing the combined forward body tube and nosecone off of the ebay in one piece (nosecone and body tube fastened together somehow). I'll probably end up using an inch or so of body tube around the middle of the ebay for mounting arming switches and static ports. Since I am still suffering from rookie overbuilding syndrom to a degree, I was looking at a 12" long ebay on this 4" rocket to keep everything nice and strong in the middle. Best, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" To: "Bob Jimerson" , ibelchloud at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 1, 2010 9:51:19 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement The way I have taken to doing it is to have the bottom part of the rocket as a "zipperless" design. The drogue bay slips onto the exposed coupler. The ebay slips halfway into the top of that section and is fastened using small machine screws into captive nuts. The Parachute bay slips over the other half of the ebay and is fastened in the same fashion. The ebay itself has threaded rod holding the bulkheads in place and u-bolts are used for the shock cord connections. Drogue deployment happens when the rear section is kicked out. Main deploys when the nosecone is blown. This is pretty similar to what others do except I use two tubes for the bays rather than one tube with the ebay down inside it. I used this design for my L3 (6" diameter, 11' tall). The first launch had an early deployment of the drogue and a fairly nasty zipper of the drogue bay body tube -- but the screws holding the ebay in place showed no evidence of stress. I have since used this same setup on my Competitor 4" and my Eagle Claw and am doing the same for my 75mm min diameter. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rnech at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 17:58:02 2010 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:58:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] SpaceX moves closer to a Falcon 9 rocket maiden launch (April?) Message-ID: <502298.56282.qm@web111406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://tinyurl.com/yj982mx ? SpaceX moves closer to a Falcon 9 rocket maiden launch ? While the jockeying? for political position by NASA?s traditional contractors continues apace behind the scenes, aerospace newcomer SpaceX is plodding ahead with its efforts to get its Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon test capsule ready for their maiden launch. On Friday, SpaceX engineers successfully completed a tanking test at?the company?s launch pad at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. The test ?is a dress rehearsal where technicians fill a rocket with fuel to see if the process and tanking systems work as planned. It was the first hurdle in the company?s homestretch dash to launch the Falcon 9. The next step is a 3.5-second static-fire engine test that should take place in coming weeks. If all goes well a demonstration flight should follow by sometime in April at the earliest. Although the flight is not part of the company?s?milestones under its agreement with the?NASA?to deliver cargo to the International Space Station,? Falcon 9?s?maiden launch has taken on extreme importance for backers of commercial space companies. NASA contractors and lawmakers supporting the agency?s Constellation Program are working overtime to undermine President Barack Obama?s proposal to scrap Constellation and invest in private companies to take astronauts to the space station.?SpaceX? success or failure is almost certain to have a huge effort on those efforts. Stay tuned. ------------------ SpaceX posted an update on 25FEB2010.? Things are moving right along. http://www.spacex.com/updates.php ? Robert ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 18:55:23 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 18:55:23 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted References: <002101cab9c0$3d406450$b7c12cf0$@com> Message-ID: <1A4405190C414C948825823843A4C50B@LaptopKrausert> Fred's video of the Tillamook launch is available now. http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2033 Audio track will be changed back to the original. Fred got some great shots, and that makes it certainly worth the view. All pictures in the video are by Fred Azinger. Also, check out the images in "recent images." Great picture with the Air Museum in the background. Also a great image of my Back Off (blue) resting on the pad as a plane stops to see what we're doing. These pictures are by Rick Clapp. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Azinger" To: Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:24 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted > Sorry, > > Didn't have a lot of time to edit and be fancy. > > I posted a 3 minute video made from shots this weekend. > > In the order they were taken...again nothing fancy. > > The motor-drive sequence is at 9fps or 111ms per photo. > > Enjoy, > > FredA > > > > See it at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2033 > > WMV: 720P at 30fps... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From clappfamily at comcast.net Tue Mar 2 20:01:15 2010 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (ClappFamily) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:01:15 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted References: <002101cab9c0$3d406450$b7c12cf0$@com> <1A4405190C414C948825823843A4C50B@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <408B992C7C4649518F61CC8C4F00EE16@D8M6PR71> I just uploaded several more photos. Enjoy Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: "Fred Azinger" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted > Fred's video of the Tillamook launch is available now. > http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2033 > > Audio track will be changed back to the original. Fred got some great > shots, and that makes it certainly worth the view. All pictures in the > video are by Fred Azinger. > > Also, check out the images in "recent images." Great picture with the Air > Museum in the background. Also a great image of my Back Off (blue) resting > on the pad as a plane stops to see what we're doing. These pictures are by > Rick Clapp. > > Cheers, > Robert > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Azinger" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:24 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted > > >> Sorry, >> >> Didn't have a lot of time to edit and be fancy. >> >> I posted a 3 minute video made from shots this weekend. >> >> In the order they were taken...again nothing fancy. >> >> The motor-drive sequence is at 9fps or 111ms per photo. >> >> Enjoy, >> >> FredA >> >> >> >> See it at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2033 >> >> WMV: 720P at 30fps... >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 20:23:52 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:23:52 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted References: <002101cab9c0$3d406450$b7c12cf0$@com> <1A4405190C414C948825823843A4C50B@LaptopKrausert> <408B992C7C4649518F61CC8C4F00EE16@D8M6PR71> Message-ID: <3EC6AC4A3E1C44C788972D631D9C56BE@LaptopKrausert> Rick, Created your own gallery. Link from the main page post and from Photo Gallery > Events. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "ClappFamily" To: "Robert Krausert" ; "Fred Azinger" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted >I just uploaded several more photos. > > Enjoy > Rick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Fred Azinger" ; > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 6:55 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted > > >> Fred's video of the Tillamook launch is available now. >> http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2033 >> >> Audio track will be changed back to the original. Fred got some great >> shots, and that makes it certainly worth the view. All pictures in the >> video are by Fred Azinger. >> >> Also, check out the images in "recent images." Great picture with the Air >> Museum in the background. Also a great image of my Back Off (blue) >> resting on the pad as a plane stops to see what we're doing. These >> pictures are by Rick Clapp. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Fred Azinger" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:24 PM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Short slide show from Tillamook...posted >> >> >>> Sorry, >>> >>> Didn't have a lot of time to edit and be fancy. >>> >>> I posted a 3 minute video made from shots this weekend. >>> >>> In the order they were taken...again nothing fancy. >>> >>> The motor-drive sequence is at 9fps or 111ms per photo. >>> >>> Enjoy, >>> >>> FredA >>> >>> >>> >>> See it at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2033 >>> >>> WMV: 720P at 30fps... >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > From jhadv at pacifier.com Tue Mar 2 20:54:04 2010 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:54:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] EBay Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19492.76.115.45.22.1267592044.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> I have gone so far as to design threaded sleeves that glue into the body tubes where the electronics housing is an aluminum canister between the two sleeves. It works great. No wires to the ejection charges. The one commentator is correct however in that to line up the holes and threads for the shear pins between differing boosters or noses takes a mill with a rotary table unless you just take a drill and drill new holes when you need them. Which also brings into question the rigidity of the connection points for the shear pins as if those are too flexible the shear pins just get jammed in there and your stuck drilling new holes anyway. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 21:14:14 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 21:14:14 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] EBay Design References: <19492.76.115.45.22.1267592044.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <57C29D1DE649420EA98F6F3D9D1DDA42@LaptopKrausert> I'm still a big fan of glueing thin sheets of brass. On the inside of the airframe, glue in thin pieces of brass from a craft store. During the shear process, they act like knifes. You can glue them to the airframe or nosecone/coupler. Never used them... re Full disclosure. But seems like a great sharp edge for pins. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EBay Design >I have gone so far as to design threaded sleeves that glue into the body > tubes where the electronics housing is an aluminum canister between the > two sleeves. It works great. No wires to the ejection charges. The one > commentator is correct however in that to line up the holes and threads > for the shear pins between differing boosters or noses takes a mill with a > rotary table unless you just take a drill and drill new holes when you > need them. > > Which also brings into question the rigidity of the connection points for > the shear pins as if those are too flexible the shear pins just get jammed > in there and your stuck drilling new holes anyway. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From carl at mousetrap.com Wed Mar 3 08:55:56 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:55:56 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting Message-ID: The Washington Aerospace March meeting is this Saturday, March 6th, starting at 7:00PM. This month the meeting will be held in building 43 of the Microsoft campus in Redmond (http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/meetings.php). This is a perfect opportunity for you north-enders to attend a meeting without a huge drive. Show up and see what you've been missing! This meeting will be held in a conference room, rather than the lobby as in meetings past. If you are not a Microsoft employee, please try to arrive before 7:00 so that somebody can let you in. If you get there late, you can call Brad Wright at 425-246-0781 to be let in. In addition to normal club business, we will be discussing avionics bays and altimeters. Below is the current agenda. If you would like to add something, please let me know. An up-to-date agenda can be found at: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgjjg4r7_130ggqxjkfg. Thanks, and I hope to see you on Saturday. - Carl * Washington Aerospace Meeting Agenda -- March 2010 Location: Microsoft campus in Redmond, WA FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)Launch Directors for March and April Launches We still don't have launch directors assigned for our March and April launches in Mansfield. Who is going to step up? Search for a West Side Launch SiteRocket Talk: Avionics BaysRocket Talk: Altimeters (Bryan Whitemarsh)Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)Show and tell (All)2009 BALLS Video * From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Wed Mar 3 10:58:03 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 10:58:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51094.73183.qm@web112913.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Carl, I have been quietly lurking in?(and documenting) several of the conversations that Bob Jimerson has started and find myself wanting to be at your meeting Saturday.? It is a bit of a haul from the mid-Willamette valley and, I have plans on Saturday anyhow.? I would like ask you or anyone else attending the meeting to?make a video of the talks on Av. bays and the other presentations.? I would be happy to facilitate getting it on the NWR site for others to see. Mr. Krausert, perhaps we should do the same for the speaker we have scheduled for the?OROC meeting this week.? I have a small cheep digital recorder that I can bring but if others attending have something better I would invite them to bring it, I think it would be great to capture some of this information. Robert Braibish ________________________________ From: Carl Hamilton To: NorthWest Rocketry ; WAC Members Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 8:55:56 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting The Washington Aerospace March meeting is this Saturday, March 6th, starting at 7:00PM. This month the meeting will be held in building 43 of the Microsoft campus in Redmond (http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/meetings.php). This is a perfect opportunity for you north-enders to attend a meeting without a huge drive. Show up and see what you've been missing! This meeting will be held in a conference room, rather than the lobby as in meetings past. If you are not a Microsoft employee, please try to arrive before 7:00 so that somebody can let you in. If you get there late, you can call Brad Wright at 425-246-0781 to be let in. In addition to normal club business, we will be discussing avionics bays and altimeters. Below is the current agenda. If you would like to add something, please let me know. An up-to-date agenda can be found at: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgjjg4r7_130ggqxjkfg. Thanks, and I hope to see you on Saturday. - Carl * Washington Aerospace Meeting Agenda -- March 2010 Location: Microsoft campus in Redmond, WA FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)Launch Directors for March and April Launches We still don't have launch directors assigned for our March and April launches in Mansfield. Who is going to step up? Search for a West Side Launch SiteRocket Talk: Avionics BaysRocket Talk: Altimeters (Bryan Whitemarsh)Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)Show and tell (All)2009 BALLS Video * _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From robert.krausert at intel.com Wed Mar 3 13:23:51 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:23:51 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting In-Reply-To: <51094.73183.qm@web112913.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <51094.73183.qm@web112913.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E599B928C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Already the plan for the OROC meeting. We'll have video equipment there. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Braibish Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:58 AM To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting Carl, I have been quietly lurking in?(and documenting) several of the conversations that Bob Jimerson has started and find myself wanting to be at your meeting Saturday.? It is a bit of a haul from the mid-Willamette valley and, I have plans on Saturday anyhow.? I would like ask you or anyone else attending the meeting to?make a video of the talks on Av. bays and the other presentations.? I would be happy to facilitate getting it on the NWR site for others to see. Mr. Krausert, perhaps we should do the same for the speaker we have scheduled for the?OROC meeting this week.? I have a small cheep digital recorder that I can bring but if others attending have something better I would invite them to bring it, I think it would be great to capture some of this information. Robert Braibish ________________________________ From: Carl Hamilton To: NorthWest Rocketry ; WAC Members Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 8:55:56 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting The Washington Aerospace March meeting is this Saturday, March 6th, starting at 7:00PM. This month the meeting will be held in building 43 of the Microsoft campus in Redmond (http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/meetings.php). This is a perfect opportunity for you north-enders to attend a meeting without a huge drive. Show up and see what you've been missing! This meeting will be held in a conference room, rather than the lobby as in meetings past. If you are not a Microsoft employee, please try to arrive before 7:00 so that somebody can let you in. If you get there late, you can call Brad Wright at 425-246-0781 to be let in. In addition to normal club business, we will be discussing avionics bays and altimeters. Below is the current agenda. If you would like to add something, please let me know. An up-to-date agenda can be found at: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgjjg4r7_130ggqxjkfg. Thanks, and I hope to see you on Saturday. - Carl * Washington Aerospace Meeting Agenda -- March 2010 Location: Microsoft campus in Redmond, WA FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)Launch Directors for March and April Launches We still don't have launch directors assigned for our March and April launches in Mansfield. Who is going to step up? Search for a West Side Launch SiteRocket Talk: Avionics BaysRocket Talk: Altimeters (Bryan Whitemarsh)Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)Show and tell (All)2009 BALLS Video * _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Wed Mar 3 14:04:32 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:04:32 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E599B928C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <51094.73183.qm@web112913.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E599B928C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <1268574536-1267653861-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1594322982-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I thought that might be the case RK, you're one sharp cookie. See you all Thursday night!! Braib -----Original Message----- From: "Krausert, Robert" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:23:51 To: Robert Braibish; Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting Already the plan for the OROC meeting. We'll have video equipment there. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Braibish Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:58 AM To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting Carl, I have been quietly lurking in?(and documenting) several of the conversations that Bob Jimerson has started and find myself wanting to be at your meeting Saturday.? It is a bit of a haul from the mid-Willamette valley and, I have plans on Saturday anyhow.? I would like ask you or anyone else attending the meeting to?make a video of the talks on Av. bays and the other presentations.? I would be happy to facilitate getting it on the NWR site for others to see. Mr. Krausert, perhaps we should do the same for the speaker we have scheduled for the?OROC meeting this week.? I have a small cheep digital recorder that I can bring but if others attending have something better I would invite them to bring it, I think it would be great to capture some of this information. Robert Braibish ________________________________ From: Carl Hamilton To: NorthWest Rocketry ; WAC Members Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 8:55:56 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting The Washington Aerospace March meeting is this Saturday, March 6th, starting at 7:00PM. This month the meeting will be held in building 43 of the Microsoft campus in Redmond (http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/meetings.php). This is a perfect opportunity for you north-enders to attend a meeting without a huge drive. Show up and see what you've been missing! This meeting will be held in a conference room, rather than the lobby as in meetings past. If you are not a Microsoft employee, please try to arrive before 7:00 so that somebody can let you in. If you get there late, you can call Brad Wright at 425-246-0781 to be let in. In addition to normal club business, we will be discussing avionics bays and altimeters. Below is the current agenda. If you would like to add something, please let me know. An up-to-date agenda can be found at: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgjjg4r7_130ggqxjkfg. Thanks, and I hope to see you on Saturday. - Carl * Washington Aerospace Meeting Agenda -- March 2010 Location: Microsoft campus in Redmond, WA FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)Launch Directors for March and April Launches We still don't have launch directors assigned for our March and April launches in Mansfield. Who is going to step up? Search for a West Side Launch SiteRocket Talk: Avionics BaysRocket Talk: Altimeters (Bryan Whitemarsh)Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)Show and tell (All)2009 BALLS Video * _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From tim_ryerse at msn.com Wed Mar 3 16:30:53 2010 From: tim_ryerse at msn.com (MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 16:30:53 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Washington Aerospace March meeting In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E599B928C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: , <51094.73183.qm@web112913.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>, <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E599B928C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: Robert - If you want to bring another camera for shots of the examples etc for cutaways that would be great. Tim :-) > From: robert.krausert at intel.com > To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com; carl at mousetrap.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:23:51 -0800 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting > > Already the plan for the OROC meeting. We'll have video equipment there. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Braibish > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:58 AM > To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting > > Carl, I have been quietly lurking in (and documenting) several of the conversations that Bob Jimerson has started and find myself wanting to be at your meeting Saturday. It is a bit of a haul from the mid-Willamette valley and, I have plans on Saturday anyhow. I would like ask you or anyone else attending the meeting to make a video of the talks on Av. bays and the other presentations. I would be happy to facilitate getting it on the NWR site for others to see. > > Mr. Krausert, perhaps we should do the same for the speaker we have scheduled for the OROC meeting this week. I have a small cheep digital recorder that I can bring but if others attending have something better I would invite them to bring it, I think it would be great to capture some of this information. > > Robert Braibish > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Carl Hamilton > To: NorthWest Rocketry ; WAC Members > Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 8:55:56 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting > > The Washington Aerospace March meeting is this Saturday, March 6th, starting > at 7:00PM. This month the meeting will be held in building 43 of the > Microsoft campus in Redmond (http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/meetings.php). > This is a perfect opportunity for you north-enders to attend a meeting > without a huge drive. Show up and see what you've been missing! > > This meeting will be held in a conference room, rather than the lobby as in > meetings past. If you are not a Microsoft employee, please try to arrive > before 7:00 so that somebody can let you in. If you get there late, you can > call Brad Wright at 425-246-0781 to be let in. > > In addition to normal club business, we will be discussing avionics bays and > altimeters. Below is the current agenda. If you would like to add something, > please let me know. An up-to-date agenda can be found at: > http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgjjg4r7_130ggqxjkfg. > > Thanks, and I hope to see you on Saturday. > > - Carl > > * > Washington Aerospace Meeting Agenda -- March 2010 > Location: Microsoft campus in Redmond, WA > FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)Launch Directors for March and > April Launches > We still don't have launch directors assigned for our March and April > launches in Mansfield. Who is going to step up? > Search for a West Side Launch SiteRocket Talk: Avionics BaysRocket Talk: > Altimeters (Bryan Whitemarsh)Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)Show and > tell (All)2009 BALLS Video > > * > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 17:03:46 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 17:03:46 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Washington Aerospace March meeting In-Reply-To: References: <51094.73183.qm@web112913.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E599B928C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: Tim That had been my thought to. I think Robert K. has something already planned out and in the works. I am still tempted to bring my own camera though so I can snapshot a few things here and there. Chris Guenther On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 4:30 PM, MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE < tim_ryerse at msn.com> wrote: > > Robert - If you want to bring another camera for shots of the examples etc > for cutaways that would be great. > > Tim :-) > > > > > From: robert.krausert at intel.com > > To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com; carl at mousetrap.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:23:51 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting > > > > Already the plan for the OROC meeting. We'll have video equipment there. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Braibish > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 10:58 AM > > To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting > > > > Carl, I have been quietly lurking in (and documenting) several of the > conversations that Bob Jimerson has started and find myself wanting to be at > your meeting Saturday. It is a bit of a haul from the mid-Willamette valley > and, I have plans on Saturday anyhow. I would like ask you or anyone else > attending the meeting to make a video of the talks on Av. bays and the other > presentations. I would be happy to facilitate getting it on the NWR site > for others to see. > > > > Mr. Krausert, perhaps we should do the same for the speaker we have > scheduled for the OROC meeting this week. I have a small cheep digital > recorder that I can bring but if others attending have something better I > would invite them to bring it, I think it would be great to capture some of > this information. > > > > Robert Braibish > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Carl Hamilton > > To: NorthWest Rocketry ; WAC Members < > members at washingtonaerospace.org> > > Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 8:55:56 AM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March meeting > > > > The Washington Aerospace March meeting is this Saturday, March 6th, > starting > > at 7:00PM. This month the meeting will be held in building 43 of the > > Microsoft campus in Redmond ( > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/meetings.php). > > This is a perfect opportunity for you north-enders to attend a meeting > > without a huge drive. Show up and see what you've been missing! > > > > This meeting will be held in a conference room, rather than the lobby as > in > > meetings past. If you are not a Microsoft employee, please try to arrive > > before 7:00 so that somebody can let you in. If you get there late, you > can > > call Brad Wright at 425-246-0781 to be let in. > > > > In addition to normal club business, we will be discussing avionics bays > and > > altimeters. Below is the current agenda. If you would like to add > something, > > please let me know. An up-to-date agenda can be found at: > > http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgjjg4r7_130ggqxjkfg. > > > > Thanks, and I hope to see you on Saturday. > > > > - Carl > > > > * > > Washington Aerospace Meeting Agenda -- March 2010 > > Location: Microsoft campus in Redmond, WA > > FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)Launch Directors for March and > > April Launches > > We still don't have launch directors assigned for our March and April > > launches in Mansfield. Who is going to step up? > > Search for a West Side Launch SiteRocket Talk: Avionics BaysRocket Talk: > > Altimeters (Bryan Whitemarsh)Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)Show > and > > tell (All)2009 BALLS Video > > > > * > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 17:16:42 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 17:16:42 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Very Special OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda March 4th, 2010 Message-ID: <9FDC769750F047A9A671DFFBD913115D@LaptopKrausert> Reminder, the very special OROC meeting is tomorrow, Thursday March 4th at 7:30pm. Special guest speaker, Walter Jones. Known for his work with Carbon Fiber and much more. A personal friend of John Glenn. The place will be full. Please try to be on time. And also, during his speach, please try to limit conversation. We are truly honored to have him join us. Lets show him a nice, friendly welcome. If you bring kids, please ask them to remain quiet during the speach. See you all there tomorrow. BoD members, you are welcome to join Walter for dinner (on me) at 6:30pm. He would be pleased to have dinner with the BoD before the meeting. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Krausert To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:49 PM Subject: Very Special OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda March 4th, 2010 The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on March 4th, 2010. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : Welcome New Members + 7:30 : Annoucements 7:35 : Guest Speaker, Walter Jones (Carbon Fiber) [Details Below] I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday March 4th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President What's important to Rocketeers ? A mind numbing, bone-rattling roar as the sky is ripped apart, followed by the chiropractic snap of one's neck? Or is it learning how to build for the above-mentioned effect? How would you like a chance to pick the brain of one of the worlds leading experts on 'state of the art' use of Carbon Fiber? Say someone who "provided carbon fiber materials, design and manufacturing process techniques" to the Rutan brothers, Burt and Dick. You remember 1986? Dick Rutan and Jeanna Yeager flew the first non-stop, non-refueled Voyager aircraft around the world. Or how about the guy who "designed and produced sub-scale fiber glass/nylon/phenolic prepeg, bias tape wrapped, autoclave cured re-entry nose cones for 25,000 mph hypersonic wind tunnel testing. This test proved Gruntfest's theory of ablative cooling, enabling both space re-entry and high temperature rocket nozzles." Mark your calendar for the March 4th OROC meeting at Giovanni's. Because our very special guest speaker will be: Walter Jones. Walter holds 5 patents. Plus several inventions; filament/tape wound pressure vessels, carbon fiber re-entry heat shields, and rocket nozzles. 3-D woven double wall structures, inflatable buildings, boats, and surfboards. In addition carbon composite bicycle wheels and prosthetic feet/legs. I am certain that after this meeting your building techniques will be so improved as to allow you to 'push the envelope' with speeds and altitude, like you've never accomplished before. Be there March 4th, 2010 at Giovanni's, Beaverton 7:30pm. From angelawr at wrightholdings.com Thu Mar 4 09:35:28 2010 From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:35:28 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] March mtg In-Reply-To: References: <015401caba59$83d65d40$8b8317c0$@com> Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C6060B115@BL2PRD0103MB041.prod.exchangelabs.com> Come one come all, it's going to be fun! :) Angela Dinese Wright 425-443-5049 Angelawr at wrightholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 2:47 PM To: Scott Berfield Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] March mtg Yes, the Washington Aerospace March meeting will be held at the Microsoft campus in Redmond. More details to follow... - Carl On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > Is this one at MSFT? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From angelawr at wrightholdings.com Thu Mar 4 09:37:32 2010 From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:37:32 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Raffle stuff... Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C6060C4D6@BL2PRD0103MB041.prod.exchangelabs.com> If you have stuff for the Raffle and are going to be at the Meeting on Saturday please bring it along with you so I can take it home and put it in my stack for FITS! Woohhooo Thanks all see you Saturday nite! :) Angela Dinese Wright 425-443-5049 Angelawr at wrightholdings.com From hmpalotakdz6 at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 13:23:20 2010 From: hmpalotakdz6 at gmail.com (JUSTYN PALMER) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:23:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Spring is quickly approaching... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: sorry for lack of info...you can only send so much at once before people just get annoyed & hit delete. anyway, we sell only Kosdon TRM motors & hardware. prices are considerably lower than any other manufacturer & all motors are 100% handmade(which gives an extremely high solids loading in the propellant yielding LONG burn times! we are going to be at the Boise, ID launches in april, may, & june. also plan on attending launches in Brothers, OR in may, june, july, august,& october. September of course is set aside for my first trip to BALLS! i'll be the silly fool shooting for 30,000'+ w/ 4" Competitor on special made Kosdon "N-900". that's pretty much the schedule for this season...where are you & are you interested in Kosdon TRM products? if so call 208.639.0292-email only gets answered 1-2 times per week. ALSO, if anyone has any questions or needs a price feel free to call as well-thanks, RSTTM On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > what is your company and where are you located? > What launches will you attend? > > Bill > > > > > > > [image: i'm] EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:09:59 -0700 > > From: hmpalotakdz6 at gmail.com > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Spring is quickly approaching... > > > > > not to long before the spring flying season so i thought i'd run a > special > > to give substantial discounts to those who wish to "pre-order" for the > > upcoming season. buy 29mm G/H case w/2 loads-save 10%...buy 38mm I/J case > > w/2 loads-save 15%-w/3 loads-save 20%. buy 54mm J-K case with 2 > loads-save > > 15%-w/3 loads save 20%. 54mm L(54/2550) case w/1 load save 15%-2 loads > save > > 20%. 75 mm K-L is 15% off w/case & 1 load-20% off w/case & 2 loads...& > > finally 75/6000-75/7600 M's & above are 10% off with case purchase, or > 20% > > off if you buy case & 2 reloads!!! > > anything bigger i can qoute you a price over the phone @ > > 208.639.0292-internet is very unreliable. also can give you a special > deal > > on any larger purchases-just give us a call-Thanks...Justyn & Candice > Palmer > > TRA11915 &12031 > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 14:12:57 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:12:57 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Launch @ 60 Acres Saturday Message-ID: The weather is looking really good for a launch with the window of 10am to 1pm being the best time for low winds and clear skys. I?m thinking I?ll launch a couple of rockets starting at 10am. -brad From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 16:13:23 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:13:23 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Launch @ 60 Acres Saturday References: Message-ID: Is this an Official "unofficial" launch event for 60 Acres? Should I add it to the NWR web site calendar? Happy to add it, if this is official unofficial. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad McClure" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 2:12 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Launch @ 60 Acres Saturday The weather is looking really good for a launch with the window of 10am to 1pm being the best time for low winds and clear skys. I?m thinking I?ll launch a couple of rockets starting at 10am. -brad _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Thu Mar 4 20:23:20 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 20:23:20 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! Message-ID: There has been a change of venue for this Saturday's Washington Aerospace meeting. The meeting will still be held on the Microsoft campus in Redmond, but instead of meeting in building 43 we will be meeting in building 41, which is just across NE 31st Street from 43. Map: http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=47.638242514334394~-122.13384440422061&lvl=18&sty=r Bird's eye view: http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=ry5n0r4tnyjw&scene=3689071&lvl=1&sty=b If you have any questions, please let me know. Thanks. - Carl From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 20:38:45 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 20:38:45 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! References: Message-ID: <602AF6D47E354A31928A836DAB2C6ABB@LaptopKrausert> To get to building 43, follow these directions. 1. Pull into the MSFT parking log. 2. Walk 600 yards to the boarding area 3. Get on the Yellow tram (Not the Yellow & Black tram, that's going to 30 series building) 4. At interchange two. Get off the Yellow tram, and wait to get on tram Blue. Stay off the Red tram unless you're a VP or higher 5. Leave the tram at gate T4. 6. Climb stairs and walk 680 yards to building 43 entrance 7. Allow argon laser scanner read your eye 8. Walk inside once cleared using remaining eye to see To find the actual room once inside, good luck. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" ; "WAC Members" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:23 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > There has been a change of venue for this Saturday's Washington Aerospace > meeting. The meeting will still be held on the Microsoft campus in > Redmond, > but instead of meeting in building 43 we will be meeting in building 41, > which is just across NE 31st Street from 43. > > Map: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=47.638242514334394~-122.13384440422061&lvl=18&sty=r > > > Bird's eye view: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=ry5n0r4tnyjw&scene=3689071&lvl=1&sty=b > > > If you have any questions, please let me know. > > > Thanks. > > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Thu Mar 4 22:49:34 2010 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 06:49:34 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! In-Reply-To: <602AF6D47E354A31928A836DAB2C6ABB@LaptopKrausert> References: <602AF6D47E354A31928A836DAB2C6ABB@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: Robert - get on a better grade of drugs. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:39 PM To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! To get to building 43, follow these directions. 1. Pull into the MSFT parking log. 2. Walk 600 yards to the boarding area 3. Get on the Yellow tram (Not the Yellow & Black tram, that's going to 30 series building) 4. At interchange two. Get off the Yellow tram, and wait to get on tram Blue. Stay off the Red tram unless you're a VP or higher 5. Leave the tram at gate T4. 6. Climb stairs and walk 680 yards to building 43 entrance 7. Allow argon laser scanner read your eye 8. Walk inside once cleared using remaining eye to see To find the actual room once inside, good luck. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" ; "WAC Members" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:23 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > There has been a change of venue for this Saturday's Washington Aerospace > meeting. The meeting will still be held on the Microsoft campus in > Redmond, > but instead of meeting in building 43 we will be meeting in building 41, > which is just across NE 31st Street from 43. > > Map: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=47.638242514334394~-122.13384440422061&lvl=18&sty=r > > > Bird's eye view: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=ry5n0r4tnyjw&scene=3689071&lvl=1&sty=b > > > If you have any questions, please let me know. > > > Thanks. > > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From angelawr at wrightholdings.com Thu Mar 4 22:51:53 2010 From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 06:51:53 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! In-Reply-To: References: <602AF6D47E354A31928A836DAB2C6ABB@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C60F2459F@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com> Dude its changed to building 41 not 42 and its easy to find and easy to get in the conf room. HEY lets have fun with it. :) Angela Dinese Wright 425-443-5049 Angelawr at wrightholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:50 PM To: Robert Krausert; Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! Robert - get on a better grade of drugs. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:39 PM To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! To get to building 43, follow these directions. 1. Pull into the MSFT parking log. 2. Walk 600 yards to the boarding area 3. Get on the Yellow tram (Not the Yellow & Black tram, that's going to 30 series building) 4. At interchange two. Get off the Yellow tram, and wait to get on tram Blue. Stay off the Red tram unless you're a VP or higher 5. Leave the tram at gate T4. 6. Climb stairs and walk 680 yards to building 43 entrance 7. Allow argon laser scanner read your eye 8. Walk inside once cleared using remaining eye to see To find the actual room once inside, good luck. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" ; "WAC Members" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:23 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > There has been a change of venue for this Saturday's Washington > Aerospace meeting. The meeting will still be held on the Microsoft > campus in Redmond, but instead of meeting in building 43 we will be > meeting in building 41, which is just across NE 31st Street from 43. > > Map: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=47.638242514334394~-122.1338444042206 > 1&lvl=18&sty=r > > > Bird's eye view: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=ry5n0r4tnyjw&scene=3689071&lvl=1&sty= > b > > > If you have any questions, please let me know. > > > Thanks. > > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 23:00:23 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 23:00:23 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! References: <602AF6D47E354A31928A836DAB2C6ABB@LaptopKrausert> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C60F2459F@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: Red and Brad, Meant no harm or foul. Just having fun with the size our campus locations. I too work at a place where trams could exist. ;-) Have a great meeting. Peace to you all. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela "Red" Wright" To: "Brad Wright" ; "Robert Krausert" ; "Carl Hamilton" ; "NorthWest Rocketry" ; "WAC Members" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:51 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! Dude its changed to building 41 not 42 and its easy to find and easy to get in the conf room. HEY lets have fun with it. :) Angela Dinese Wright 425-443-5049 Angelawr at wrightholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:50 PM To: Robert Krausert; Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! Robert - get on a better grade of drugs. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:39 PM To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! To get to building 43, follow these directions. 1. Pull into the MSFT parking log. 2. Walk 600 yards to the boarding area 3. Get on the Yellow tram (Not the Yellow & Black tram, that's going to 30 series building) 4. At interchange two. Get off the Yellow tram, and wait to get on tram Blue. Stay off the Red tram unless you're a VP or higher 5. Leave the tram at gate T4. 6. Climb stairs and walk 680 yards to building 43 entrance 7. Allow argon laser scanner read your eye 8. Walk inside once cleared using remaining eye to see To find the actual room once inside, good luck. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" ; "WAC Members" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:23 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > There has been a change of venue for this Saturday's Washington > Aerospace meeting. The meeting will still be held on the Microsoft > campus in Redmond, but instead of meeting in building 43 we will be > meeting in building 41, which is just across NE 31st Street from 43. > > Map: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=47.638242514334394~-122.1338444042206 > 1&lvl=18&sty=r > > > Bird's eye view: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=ry5n0r4tnyjw&scene=3689071&lvl=1&sty= > b > > > If you have any questions, please let me know. > > > Thanks. > > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From vincesimoneau at msn.com Thu Mar 4 23:05:47 2010 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 23:05:47 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! In-Reply-To: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C60F2459F@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: , <602AF6D47E354A31928A836DAB2C6ABB@LaptopKrausert>, , <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C60F2459F@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: OK Ok NOw i know how you all pay for this ,.......stuf....uh dining room tables..... EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com > To: bradwr at wrightholdings.com; lawndart.robert at gmail.com; carl at mousetrap.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 06:51:53 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > > Dude its changed to building 41 not 42 and its easy to find and easy to get in the conf room. HEY lets have fun with it. :) > > Angela Dinese Wright > 425-443-5049 > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:50 PM > To: Robert Krausert; Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > > Robert - get on a better grade of drugs. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:39 PM > To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > > To get to building 43, follow these directions. > > 1. Pull into the MSFT parking log. > 2. Walk 600 yards to the boarding area > 3. Get on the Yellow tram (Not the Yellow & Black tram, that's going to 30 series building) 4. At interchange two. Get off the Yellow tram, and wait to get on tram Blue. Stay off the Red tram unless you're a VP or higher 5. Leave the tram at gate T4. > 6. Climb stairs and walk 680 yards to building 43 entrance 7. Allow argon laser scanner read your eye 8. Walk inside once cleared using remaining eye to see > > To find the actual room once inside, good luck. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Hamilton" > To: "NorthWest Rocketry" ; "WAC Members" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:23 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > > > > There has been a change of venue for this Saturday's Washington > > Aerospace meeting. The meeting will still be held on the Microsoft > > campus in Redmond, but instead of meeting in building 43 we will be > > meeting in building 41, which is just across NE 31st Street from 43. > > > > Map: > > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=47.638242514334394~-122.1338444042206 > > 1&lvl=18&sty=r > > > > > > Bird's eye view: > > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=ry5n0r4tnyjw&scene=3689071&lvl=1&sty= > > b > > > > > > If you have any questions, please let me know. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > - Carl > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From absworld at cet.com Fri Mar 5 06:54:35 2010 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 06:54:35 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! In-Reply-To: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C60F2459F@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <602AF6D47E354A31928A836DAB2C6ABB@LaptopKrausert> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C60F2459F@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <028a01cabc73$c6b322d0$54196870$@com> Who ever said anything about building 42? boBERT -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:52 PM To: Brad Wright; Robert Krausert; Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! Dude its changed to building 41 not 42 and its easy to find and easy to get in the conf room. HEY lets have fun with it. :) Angela Dinese Wright 425-443-5049 Angelawr at wrightholdings.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:50 PM To: Robert Krausert; Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! Robert - get on a better grade of drugs. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:39 PM To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! To get to building 43, follow these directions. 1. Pull into the MSFT parking log. 2. Walk 600 yards to the boarding area 3. Get on the Yellow tram (Not the Yellow & Black tram, that's going to 30 series building) 4. At interchange two. Get off the Yellow tram, and wait to get on tram Blue. Stay off the Red tram unless you're a VP or higher 5. Leave the tram at gate T4. 6. Climb stairs and walk 680 yards to building 43 entrance 7. Allow argon laser scanner read your eye 8. Walk inside once cleared using remaining eye to see To find the actual room once inside, good luck. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" ; "WAC Members" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:23 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > There has been a change of venue for this Saturday's Washington > Aerospace meeting. The meeting will still be held on the Microsoft > campus in Redmond, but instead of meeting in building 43 we will be > meeting in building 41, which is just across NE 31st Street from 43. > > Map: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=47.638242514334394~-122.1338444042206 > 1&lvl=18&sty=r > > > Bird's eye view: > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=ry5n0r4tnyjw&scene=3689071&lvl=1&sty= > b > > > If you have any questions, please let me know. > > > Thanks. > > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ members mailing list members at washingtonaerospace.org http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace. org From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Fri Mar 5 07:32:15 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (bwhitemarsh at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:32:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting Rocket Talk -- Altimeters In-Reply-To: <150004213.11408071267802626213.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1589342957.11412681267803135754.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> To those who plan on attending the Washington Aerospace monthly meeting this weekend at the Microsoft campus: I am going to lead the "Rocket Talk" discussion regarding altimeters this Saturday.? I?am hoping to have a selection of altimeters on hand so those who are interested can take a look at the actual units.? Does anyone coming to the meeting have: ARTS 2 G-Wiz (LCX and/or HCX) Black Magic Missile Works UFC-2 or (gulp!) UFC-3 Thanks in advance.? See you at the meeting! Bryan From angelawr at wrightholdings.com Fri Mar 5 09:19:57 2010 From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:19:57 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! In-Reply-To: References: , <602AF6D47E354A31928A836DAB2C6ABB@LaptopKrausert>, , <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C60F2459F@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C60F2467A@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com> Hey it's all good clean fun! No worries see you all tomorrow nite. :) Angela Dinese Wright 425-443-5049 Angelawr at wrightholdings.com From: Vince Simoneau [mailto:vincesimoneau at msn.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 11:06 PM To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; lawndart.robert at gmail.com; Carl Hamilton; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! OK Ok NOw i know how you all pay for this ,.......stuf....uh dining room tables..... [i'm]EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com > To: bradwr at wrightholdings.com; lawndart.robert at gmail.com; carl at mousetrap.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 06:51:53 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > > Dude its changed to building 41 not 42 and its easy to find and easy to get in the conf room. HEY lets have fun with it. :) > > Angela Dinese Wright > 425-443-5049 > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 10:50 PM > To: Robert Krausert; Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > > Robert - get on a better grade of drugs. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:39 PM > To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > > To get to building 43, follow these directions. > > 1. Pull into the MSFT parking log. > 2. Walk 600 yards to the boarding area > 3. Get on the Yellow tram (Not the Yellow & Black tram, that's going to 30 series building) 4. At interchange two. Get off the Yellow tram, and wait to get on tram Blue. Stay off the Red tram unless you're a VP or higher 5. Leave the tram at gate T4. > 6. Climb stairs and walk 680 yards to building 43 entrance 7. Allow argon laser scanner read your eye 8. Walk inside once cleared using remaining eye to see > > To find the actual room once inside, good luck. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Hamilton" > > To: "NorthWest Rocketry" >; "WAC Members" > > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 8:23 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace: important meeting update! > > > > There has been a change of venue for this Saturday's Washington > > Aerospace meeting. The meeting will still be held on the Microsoft > > campus in Redmond, but instead of meeting in building 43 we will be > > meeting in building 41, which is just across NE 31st Street from 43. > > > > Map: > > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=47.638242514334394~-122.1338444042206 > > 1&lvl=18&sty=r > > > > > > Bird's eye view: > > http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=ry5n0r4tnyjw&scene=3689071&lvl=1&sty= > > b > > > > > > If you have any questions, please let me know. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > - Carl > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From carl at mousetrap.com Fri Mar 5 09:45:00 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:45:00 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace February meeting minutes Message-ID: Just in time for the March meeting, the minutes from the Washington Aerospace February have been posted on the club's website. http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news1002.php Thanks. - Carl From t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 10:01:07 2010 From: t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com (Tsolo) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:01:07 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers update Message-ID: We've just come back from a wk at Bros. I got 11 flights in. The drive in was made worse by the ruts in the road from removing the rocks. RVers will want to stow gear and batten down the hatches before driving in. We drove our 36' class A and thought we might get whiplash! I walked the north side of the new fence and here are the dimensios. Walking east it's .25 mi then .5 mi north then east 1 mi where it intersects an old fence and dirt road running n-s. From the gate by the portapots it runs south .8 mi til it runs into another gate. RK did you get a hold of the prop owner? Also where did you post the photos I sent of the new fence? The weather was cold at night it got down to 36 degrees inside the coach and we had ice on the inside of the windshield! Last Sat was gorgeous sun all day virtually windless. Only 2 days was weather bad. We are returning to Bros. 3-25 for a wk. Anybody want to fly rockets?! Tsolo Dann NAR 82124 TRA 10359 From dmrandall at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 10:41:09 2010 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:41:09 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting Rocket Talk -- Altimeters In-Reply-To: <1589342957.11412681267803135754.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <150004213.11408071267802626213.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1589342957.11412681267803135754.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <6bc920e41003051041i6778184bn60b1052d93fecdae@mail.gmail.com> I'll bring my GWiz HCX and MC2. On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 7:32 AM, wrote: > > > To those who plan on attending the Washington Aerospace monthly meeting this weekend at the Microsoft campus: > > > > I am going to lead the "Rocket Talk" discussion regarding altimeters this Saturday.? I?am hoping to have a selection of altimeters on hand so those who are interested can take a look at the actual units.? Does anyone coming to the meeting have: > > > > ARTS 2 > > G-Wiz (LCX and/or HCX) > > Black Magic Missile Works UFC-2 or (gulp!) UFC-3 > > > > Thanks in advance.? See you at the meeting! > > > > Bryan > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -- - Dave From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Fri Mar 5 11:09:06 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:09:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Contrail Hybrid motor systems? Message-ID: I've been doing some web research on Hybrid motor systems and really like what I've read thus far on the Contrail system. I'm hoping that there are some members with experience with the Contrail system that would be willing to share their experiences with me. Thanks -brad From dale at google.com Fri Mar 5 11:11:25 2010 From: dale at google.com (Dale Woodford) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:11:25 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting Rocket Talk -- Altimeters In-Reply-To: <1589342957.11412681267803135754.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <150004213.11408071267802626213.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1589342957.11412681267803135754.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <34b698161003051111s1d356572i72aa6d4191e0b84b@mail.gmail.com> I have an ARTS2 that I can bring. On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 7:32 AM, wrote: > > > To those who plan on attending the Washington Aerospace monthly meeting > this weekend at the Microsoft campus: > > > > I am going to lead the "Rocket Talk" discussion regarding altimeters this > Saturday. I am hoping to have a selection of altimeters on hand so those > who are interested can take a look at the actual units. Does anyone coming > to the meeting have: > > > > ARTS 2 > > G-Wiz (LCX and/or HCX) > > Black Magic Missile Works UFC-2 or (gulp!) UFC-3 > > > > Thanks in advance. See you at the meeting! > > > > Bryan > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Fri Mar 5 11:14:11 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:14:11 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Follow up - I place an email order with US Rockets for three fiberglass kits, per group feedback I have not sent payment and will not send payment until I receive the product. As of today I have yet to receive any form of communication but hey, it's only been a week ;-) Thanks again for the feedback, it's good to know who you're dealing with! -brad > From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 04:19:19 -0800 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request > > > Thanks to everyone for the feedback! > > > > -brad > > > From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:45 -0800 > > Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request > > > > > > I've been looking at various minimal diameter body tube rocket kits and came across their Fiberglass kits - http://v-serv.com/usr/fib.htm > > > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with US Rockets in general and / or their fiber glass kits? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > -brad > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sealtee at cableone.net Fri Mar 5 12:11:43 2010 From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 12:11:43 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting Rocket Talk --Altimeters Message-ID: <005501cabca0$13466450$39d32cf0$@net> Speaking of altimeters, I just ordered up a Featherweight Raven. Do any of you have any experience with these very new altimeters? Thanks in advance, Cameron From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Fri Mar 5 15:44:35 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:44:35 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] EBay Design In-Reply-To: <57C29D1DE649420EA98F6F3D9D1DDA42@LaptopKrausert> References: <19492.76.115.45.22.1267592044.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <57C29D1DE649420EA98F6F3D9D1DDA42@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <000301cabcbd$d03fbf80$70bf3e80$@Dennis42@comcast.net> That technique works great, I've used a few times. The one I was most concerned about was on my Polecat Aerospace 10" Saturn V (http://stores.whatsuphobby.com/-strse-9/Polecat-Aerospace-10%22-Saturn/Deta il.bok). It had a nose cone that weighed in at 23 lbs, so it needed big shear pins (actually used screws). I positioned the brass on the inside of the tube, by using a Dremel to remove about half of the tube. Then glued the brass squares in that hole. Then used some epoxy and chopped fiberglass to cover the brass, then sanded it smooth. The 4 shear pins all sheared off perfectly... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 9:14 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EBay Design I'm still a big fan of glueing thin sheets of brass. On the inside of the airframe, glue in thin pieces of brass from a craft store. During the shear process, they act like knifes. You can glue them to the airframe or nosecone/coupler. Never used them... re Full disclosure. But seems like a great sharp edge for pins. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EBay Design >I have gone so far as to design threaded sleeves that glue into the body > tubes where the electronics housing is an aluminum canister between the > two sleeves. It works great. No wires to the ejection charges. The one > commentator is correct however in that to line up the holes and threads > for the shear pins between differing boosters or noses takes a mill with a > rotary table unless you just take a drill and drill new holes when you > need them. > > Which also brings into question the rigidity of the connection points for > the shear pins as if those are too flexible the shear pins just get jammed > in there and your stuck drilling new holes anyway. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Fri Mar 5 15:48:02 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:48:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting Rocket Talk --Altimeters In-Reply-To: <005501cabca0$13466450$39d32cf0$@net> References: <005501cabca0$13466450$39d32cf0$@net> Message-ID: <008001cabcbe$4bc106f0$e34314d0$@com> I am still unsure if I can come to the meeting (figuring our 23rd anniversary plans with the wife - technically on Sunday, but you never know) but I have a Raven, and Arts2 and an HCX I can bring if I am there. Haven't flown the Raven yet, but have two bays fitted out for it and have ground tested it. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Cameron Tinder Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 12:12 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting Rocket Talk --Altimeters Speaking of altimeters, I just ordered up a Featherweight Raven. Do any of you have any experience with these very new altimeters? Thanks in advance, Cameron _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Fri Mar 5 15:55:46 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:55:46 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace meeting reminder Message-ID: Here is a reminder: tomorrow's Washington Aerospace meeting will be held in building 41 on Microsoft's Redmond campus, not in building 43 as originally scheduled. Building 41 is just across NE 31st Street from building 43. The building will be locked. Please try to arrive a little before 7:00 so that one of our MS-employee members can let you in. If you get there late, you can call Brad Wright on his cell phone: 425-246-0781. Here are is map showing the location of building 41 (and building 43 for reference): http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=47.638242514334394~-122.13384440422061&lvl=18&sty=r Hope to see everybody there! - Carl P.S. Please don't pollute this thread with a bunch of useless noise. From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 5 23:59:28 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 02:59:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Message-ID: <21283035.1267862368637.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> So, I'm thinking about a boosted dart project and was wondering if it would be okay to discharge "sand" at altitude in an effort to shed mass and lessen the burden on recovery bits. Say, detect apogee then delay to 30K AGL for mass dump cycle to activate, may last 6-7 seconds to when the dart could hopefully become unstable then deploy chute normally. How different than any other rocket is this in terms of dangers if one factors failure modes only? /Steve From vern_knowles at att.net Sat Mar 6 06:25:49 2010 From: vern_knowles at att.net (Vern Knowles) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 07:25:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <21283035.1267862368637.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <21283035.1267862368637.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000301cabd38$ebaa8680$0400a8c0@MainPC> Instead of sand why not use H2O? Vern Knowles www.vernk.com > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of > steve-c at ix.netcom.com > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 12:59 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > So, I'm thinking about a boosted dart project and was > wondering if it would be okay to discharge "sand" at altitude > in an effort to shed mass and lessen the burden on recovery > bits. Say, detect apogee then delay to 30K AGL for mass dump > cycle to activate, may last 6-7 seconds to when the dart > could hopefully become unstable then deploy chute normally. > How different than any other rocket is this in terms of > dangers if one factors failure modes only? /Steve > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 07:20:21 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 07:20:21 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <000301cabd38$ebaa8680$0400a8c0@MainPC> Message-ID: Sand is 1.5x density of H2O. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Vern Knowles Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 6:26 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Instead of sand why not use H2O? Vern Knowles www.vernk.com > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of > steve-c at ix.netcom.com > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 12:59 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > So, I'm thinking about a boosted dart project and was > wondering if it would be okay to discharge "sand" at altitude > in an effort to shed mass and lessen the burden on recovery > bits. Say, detect apogee then delay to 30K AGL for mass dump > cycle to activate, may last 6-7 seconds to when the dart > could hopefully become unstable then deploy chute normally. > How different than any other rocket is this in terms of > dangers if one factors failure modes only? /Steve > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 6 10:40:25 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 10:40:25 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check References: Message-ID: <8B1B6F24D44C4E70A30B4B499E055780@LaptopKrausert> Steve, Free falling sand from 30K feet doesn't seem to be harmful. In part I, it states cause harm. Sand I don't think is large enough individually to cause harm it someone was hit by it. That's my interp' of the rules. Safety code: Payloads 1.. Do not install or incorporate in a high power rocket a payload that is intended to be flammable, explosive, or cause harm. 2.. Do not fly a vertebrate animal in a high power rocker. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" To: "'Vern Knowles'" ; Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Sand is 1.5x density of H2O. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Vern Knowles > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 6:26 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > > Instead of sand why not use H2O? > > Vern Knowles > www.vernk.com > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of >> steve-c at ix.netcom.com >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 12:59 AM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> So, I'm thinking about a boosted dart project and was >> wondering if it would be okay to discharge "sand" at altitude >> in an effort to shed mass and lessen the burden on recovery >> bits. Say, detect apogee then delay to 30K AGL for mass dump >> cycle to activate, may last 6-7 seconds to when the dart >> could hopefully become unstable then deploy chute normally. >> How different than any other rocket is this in terms of >> dangers if one factors failure modes only? /Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 6 11:11:39 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 11:11:39 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Message-ID: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport manager has already approved the date. Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before requesting an FAA waiver. Cheers, Robert From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 6 11:28:26 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 11:28:26 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <19B57D84E62045FEA185F9F1D84AB446@LaptopKrausert> Excellent. Are you bringing Lil' Kermie again? ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Clark To: Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th I'll be there. On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Robert Krausert wrote: We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport manager has already approved the date. Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before requesting an FAA waiver. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at bigredbee.com Sat Mar 6 11:27:27 2010 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 11:27:27 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: I'll be there. On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Robert Krausert wrote: > We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport > manager has already approved the date. > > Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before > requesting an FAA waiver. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com Sat Mar 6 11:18:05 2010 From: t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com (Tsolo) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 11:18:05 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawkins contact me off line Message-ID: <07356982-4FC8-46B2-B060-BA1CBB7F2575@gmail.com> Need Patrick W's info so I can order rings 206 851 1363 Thanks Tsolo Dann NAR 82124 L2 TRA 10359 L2 From jhadv at pacifier.com Sat Mar 6 13:11:33 2010 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 13:11:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20100306130416.00c49e38@mail.iinet.com> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then jettison the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving space because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of the parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the drag which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that idea. Thanks. Paul Bogdanich From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Sat Mar 6 13:26:04 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 13:26:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <1D7AB5AD3D7F4D3C81871F52F77E9CE3@Desktop> Count me in. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: ; Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:11 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport > manager has already approved the date. > > Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before > requesting an FAA waiver. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 14:41:17 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:41:17 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20100306130416.00c49e38@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <9B10E38F8288498F943462DEFCA58154@steve> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't know why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is intended. Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat - not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take hold on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal velocity. But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be fast blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form such as 76mm to 29mm first. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then jettison the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving space because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of the parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the drag which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that idea. Thanks. Paul Bogdanich _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 14:46:18 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:46:18 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <07184050D9F444B593F39E319597EFD8@steve> Interested? You're asking that on a day like today? Heck yes! BTW - I put 150miles on the scooter since 9AM and 200 rounds of 45ACP down-range - my sites were set for 100yds - just a tad smaller than rockets, but any and all projectile motion is fun. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:12 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport manager has already approved the date. Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before requesting an FAA waiver. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 6 14:50:57 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:50:57 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check References: <9B10E38F8288498F943462DEFCA58154@steve> Message-ID: <2046040C0A1E42A9B1DDF52C79276C1B@LaptopKrausert> Steve, My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will not work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the altimeter reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its own chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper section is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by much. But the sand will be gone. Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't know > why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is > intended. > > Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat - > not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the > poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it > terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take hold > on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal > velocity. > > But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key > to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be fast > blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. > > How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form > such as 76mm to 29mm first. > > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then > jettison > the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving > space > because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery > gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue > compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of > the > parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the > drag > which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that > idea. Thanks. > > Paul Bogdanich > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From estimado at comcast.net Sat Mar 6 15:05:18 2010 From: estimado at comcast.net (estimado at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 23:05:18 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: <07184050D9F444B593F39E319597EFD8@steve> References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert><07184050D9F444B593F39E319597EFD8@steve> Message-ID: <506889903-1267916666-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-432725574-@bda619.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Just an fyi...I think the BORG guys are planning a pick up launch in Brothers that same day. Rich Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:46:18 To: 'Robert Krausert'; ; Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Interested? You're asking that on a day like today? Heck yes! BTW - I put 150miles on the scooter since 9AM and 200 rounds of 45ACP down-range - my sites were set for 100yds - just a tad smaller than rockets, but any and all projectile motion is fun. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:12 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport manager has already approved the date. Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before requesting an FAA waiver. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 6 15:12:29 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 15:12:29 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th References: <07184050D9F444B593F39E319597EFD8@steve> Message-ID: Oh very good Steve. Today would be perfect for some shooting. I've got a sniper configured Model 1 by Ruger that I need to site the scope in. It's a 223 with zoom scope, bi-pods and a nice bull barrel. Has never been shot. It needs too. Next time you head out for some plinking, let me if you want company. Own a couple handguns and a few rifles. Own a pre-64 feather weight Winchester model 70, in 30.06 caliber. Replaced the stock with a heavy stock with thumb hole and cheak pad. Fun to shoot. But the thin barrel requires breaks to cool the barrel. I think they decided pre-64 machined and post-64 stamped parts have no difference. But I'm still a pre-64 fan. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" To: "'Robert Krausert'" ; ; Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:46 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > Interested? You're asking that on a day like today? Heck yes! > > BTW - I put 150miles on the scooter since 9AM and 200 rounds of 45ACP > down-range - my sites were set for 100yds - just a tad smaller than > rockets, but any and all projectile motion is fun. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:12 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org > Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > > We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport > manager has already approved the date. > > Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before > requesting an FAA waiver. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Sat Mar 6 15:26:42 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 15:26:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <21283035.1267862368637.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <21283035.1267862368637.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <278425.74996.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Steve, conceptually, I did this very thing at Rocketober last year with a rocket using water as a "ballast".? My intent was to have a rocket that went up with optimal mass and would slowly loose mass (drain)?on decent thus slowing down.?? I?sized?my?chutes for the empty decent weight/velocity and then calculated what drain rate would?give?me an?empty volume at an altitude low enough to?minimize drift.??I'll tell you what, ?If you are looking for some high-end differential calculus try calculating the drain rate of a "vessel" that is descending - changing mass, changing decent rate, changing volume... all at the same time.? After I pounded that over for a while I realized as long as I solved for my limits?that how quickly it drained was not really an issue. Anyhow, I had a very successful first flight but on the second flight with more weight and a much larger motor, I had a structural failure (the rocket was actually constructed of water bottles so it was an untried material).? I chose to use water because its "drain rate" was quicker (and I guess I was going with a theme since the rocket was made from water bottles).? I know sand will work too, in fact I tried a few tests to get data (drain rates etc.)? If you are controlling decent with chutes and?altimeters then I don't see a problem with dropping all your weight at one shot.? My?failed flight had?the top half of my rocket come down with the full load weight. it was no more dangerous than had the rocket been constructed of heavier materials and not had ballast.? In terms of relative danger,?I don't think that you should have to design?in a factor of safety for a failure event, whether the rocket's weight?is?due to construction materials or ballast, a falling rocket is dangerous but it is a hazard that we all are aware of and make provisions for. For what it is worth, I have plans to rebuild the new and improved "Bottle Rocket" for flights this year.? Robert Braibish ________________________________ From: "steve-c at ix.netcom.com" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Fri, March 5, 2010 11:59:28 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check So, I'm thinking about a boosted dart project and was wondering if it would be okay to discharge "sand" at altitude in an effort to shed mass and lessen the burden on recovery bits. Say, detect apogee then delay to 30K AGL for mass dump cycle to activate, may last 6-7 seconds to when the dart could hopefully become unstable then deploy chute normally.? How different than any other rocket is this in terms of dangers if one factors failure modes only?? /Steve? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 6 16:23:58 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 16:23:58 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert><07184050D9F444B593F39E319597EFD8@steve> <506889903-1267916666-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-432725574-@bda619.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <704519.48780.qm@web50204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26EB909E229F42E093580B1E1081E82B@LaptopKrausert> Larry, Please with all pick up launches. Let the BoD know and get permission from Chris. This is the first I've heard of this event. Would like to know. Are you planning to use the OROC waiver, or using your own? Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Colvin To: estimado at comcast.net ; Steve Cutonilli ; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ; Robert Krausert ; rockets at rocketsnw.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [OROC Members] [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Yes, The BORG is planning a pick-up launch that weekend. We are open to visitors from the valley joining us. We will choose either Saturday the 17th or Sunday the 18th depending on what works best for everyone. I will put my vote in for Sunday at this point as it looks like there is a conflict in my schedule for Saturday. If weather is bad, we scrap the plans over breakfast at Pilot Butte Drive In in Bend. Larry BORG ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "estimado at comcast.net" To: Steve Cutonilli ; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com; Robert Krausert ; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 3:05:18 PM Subject: Re: [OROC Members] [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Just an fyi...I think the BORG guys are planning a pick up launch in Brothers that same day. Rich Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:46:18 To: 'Robert Krausert'; ; Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Interested? You're asking that on a day like today? Heck yes! BTW - I put 150miles on the scooter since 9AM and 200 rounds of 45ACP down-range - my sites were set for 100yds - just a tad smaller than rockets, but any and all projectile motion is fun. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:12 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport manager has already approved the date. Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before requesting an FAA waiver. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Members mailing list Members at oregonrocketry.org http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 6 16:20:30 2010 From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 16:20:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: <506889903-1267916666-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-432725574-@bda619.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert><07184050D9F444B593F39E319597EFD8@steve> <506889903-1267916666-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-432725574-@bda619.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <704519.48780.qm@web50204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yes, The BORG is planning a pick-up launch that weekend.? We are open to visitors from the valley joining us.? We will choose either Saturday the 17th or Sunday the 18th depending on what works best for everyone.? I will put my vote in for?Sunday at this point as it looks like there is a conflict in my schedule for Saturday.? If weather is bad, we scrap the plans over breakfast at Pilot Butte Drive In in Bend. ? Larry BORG ________________________________ From: "estimado at comcast.net" To: Steve Cutonilli ; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com; Robert Krausert ; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 3:05:18 PM Subject: Re: [OROC Members] [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Just an fyi...I think the BORG guys are planning a pick up launch in Brothers that same day. Rich Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:46:18 To: 'Robert Krausert'; ; Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Interested?? You're asking that on a day like today? Heck yes!? BTW - I put 150miles on the scooter since 9AM and 200 rounds of 45ACP down-range - my sites were set for 100yds - just a tad smaller than rockets, but any and all projectile motion is fun.? /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:12 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport manager has already approved the date. Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before requesting an FAA waiver. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Members mailing list Members at oregonrocketry.org http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Sat Mar 6 16:40:48 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 16:40:48 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: <704519.48780.qm@web50204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert><07184050D9F444B593F39E319597EFD8@steve> <506889903-1267916666-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-432725574-@bda619.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <704519.48780.qm@web50204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I know BORG has been talking about that date, but since nothing has been confirmed, I am heading to NY during that weekend. I will be there in spirit............ Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. On Mar 6, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Larry Colvin wrote: > Yes, The BORG is planning a pick-up launch that weekend. We are open to visitors from the valley joining us. We will choose either Saturday the 17th or Sunday the 18th depending on what works best for everyone. I will put my vote in for Sunday at this point as it looks like there is a conflict in my schedule for Saturday. If weather is bad, we scrap the plans over breakfast at Pilot Butte Drive In in Bend. > > Larry > BORG > > > > ________________________________ > From: "estimado at comcast.net" > To: Steve Cutonilli ; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com; Robert Krausert ; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org > Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 3:05:18 PM > Subject: Re: [OROC Members] [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > > Just an fyi...I think the BORG guys are planning a pick up launch in Brothers that same day. > Rich > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Steve Cutonilli" > Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:46:18 > To: 'Robert Krausert'; ; > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > > Interested? You're asking that on a day like today? Heck yes! > > BTW - I put 150miles on the scooter since 9AM and 200 rounds of 45ACP > down-range - my sites were set for 100yds - just a tad smaller than > rockets, but any and all projectile motion is fun. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:12 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org > Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > > We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport > manager has already approved the date. > > Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before > requesting an FAA waiver. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 6 17:14:01 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 17:14:01 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC 2010 Showcase Events for 2010 Message-ID: <701BF9E9714641C5B31225C4D376DCF2@LaptopKrausert> Upon my recommendation, we started these before I became president of the club. I think many enjoyed the Electronics Bay showcase event. And last year they kind of fizzled. I'd like to re-energize they showcase events, as I see they have a great value for information sharing. For 2010; here are proposed Showcases. All showcases will be at 7pm after dinner on Saturday, during the Brothers Oregon launch event of that weekend. Gathering would be at the LCO area, tables provided. Contribute or just observe. That is the point. If you have something to share, share it. If you want to learn from others, than stop by and listen. Not just listen, asked questions. Spring Thunder: Showcase: High Altitude Share your rocket design, motor selection, drag reduction, etc. This is a showcase to share ideas about achieving the most altitude with darts and other close to minimum diameter rockets. Summer Skies: Showcase: Electronics bays part II Again share your latest e-bay designs, arming techniques, etc. Deployment? Video? Both? This is a share all of e-beys. Summer Heat: Showcase: Tracking Bring your your tracking devices, etc. HAM radio as a method? Dog collar fits? Bring and share your tracking tools. We will try to hold finding/locating demos during the showcase. All will be held beginning at 7pm on Saturday of the launch event. Cameras and videos are welcome. Hope you join, share, and participate. Cheers, Robert From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 17:38:03 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 17:38:03 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <2046040C0A1E42A9B1DDF52C79276C1B@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <2CE35334078B4895A8921B7303DD1659@steve> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Steve, My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will not work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the altimeter reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its own chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper section is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by much. But the sand will be gone. Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't know > why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is > intended. > > Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat - > not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the > poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it > terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take hold > on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal > velocity. > > But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key > to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be fast > blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. > > How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form > such as 76mm to 29mm first. > > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then > jettison > the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving > space > because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery > gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue > compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of > the > parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the > drag > which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that > idea. Thanks. > > Paul Bogdanich > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 17:44:30 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 17:44:30 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <278425.74996.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ooooh.experience.I'm listening. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Braibish [mailto:cpovercg at rocketmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 3:27 PM To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Steve, conceptually, I did this very thing at Rocketober last year with a rocket using water as a "ballast". My intent was to have a rocket that went up with optimal mass and would slowly loose mass (drain) on decent thus slowing down. I sized my chutes for the empty decent weight/velocity and then calculated what drain rate would give me an empty volume at an altitude low enough to minimize drift. I'll tell you what, If you are looking for some high-end differential calculus try calculating the drain rate of a "vessel" that is descending - changing mass, changing decent rate, changing volume... all at the same time. After I pounded that over for a while I realized as long as I solved for my limits that how quickly it drained was not really an issue. Anyhow, I had a very successful first flight but on the second flight with more weight and a much larger motor, I had a structural failure (the rocket was actually constructed of water bottles so it was an untried material). I chose to use water because its "drain rate" was quicker (and I guess I was going with a theme since the rocket was made from water bottles). I know sand will work too, in fact I tried a few tests to get data (drain rates etc.) If you are controlling decent with chutes and altimeters then I don't see a problem with dropping all your weight at one shot. My failed flight had the top half of my rocket come down with the full load weight. it was no more dangerous than had the rocket been constructed of heavier materials and not had ballast. In terms of relative danger, I don't think that you should have to design in a factor of safety for a failure event, whether the rocket's weight is due to construction materials or ballast, a falling rocket is dangerous but it is a hazard that we all are aware of and make provisions for. For what it is worth, I have plans to rebuild the new and improved "Bottle Rocket" for flights this year. Robert Braibish _____ From: "steve-c at ix.netcom.com" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Fri, March 5, 2010 11:59:28 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check So, I'm thinking about a boosted dart project and was wondering if it would be okay to discharge "sand" at altitude in an effort to shed mass and lessen the burden on recovery bits. Say, detect apogee then delay to 30K AGL for mass dump cycle to activate, may last 6-7 seconds to when the dart could hopefully become unstable then deploy chute normally. How different than any other rocket is this in terms of dangers if one factors failure modes only? /Steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Sat Mar 6 17:46:04 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 17:46:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <2CE35334078B4895A8921B7303DD1659@steve> References: <2046040C0A1E42A9B1DDF52C79276C1B@LaptopKrausert> <2CE35334078B4895A8921B7303DD1659@steve> Message-ID: <001201cabd97$f36c68c0$da453a40$@com> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want to use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping non-native material. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Steve, My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will not work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the altimeter reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its own chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper section is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by much. But the sand will be gone. Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't know > why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is > intended. > > Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat - > not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the > poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it > terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take hold > on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal > velocity. > > But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key > to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be fast > blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. > > How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form > such as 76mm to 29mm first. > > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then > jettison > the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving > space > because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery > gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue > compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of > the > parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the > drag > which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that > idea. Thanks. > > Paul Bogdanich > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 18:01:18 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 18:01:18 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm gonna work on a 8-12" gong for the next outing - I had a 1/2" 5x5 steel plate and a sheet of white cardboard backer that was 24"x24" - the only string I had worthy of comment was a couple of 2x and one 3x that felt like a successful level-2 flight (rocketry content) - I ran a silencer which made it easy to distinguish between brass hitting the bench and a bullet hitting target. It's a hoot particularly if one has a spotter - 835fps is definitely noticeable (glints from sun reflection). You are cordially invited next time I go. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 3:12 PM To: Steve Cutonilli; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Oh very good Steve. Today would be perfect for some shooting. I've got a sniper configured Model 1 by Ruger that I need to site the scope in. It's a 223 with zoom scope, bi-pods and a nice bull barrel. Has never been shot. It needs too. Next time you head out for some plinking, let me if you want company. Own a couple handguns and a few rifles. Own a pre-64 feather weight Winchester model 70, in 30.06 caliber. Replaced the stock with a heavy stock with thumb hole and cheak pad. Fun to shoot. But the thin barrel requires breaks to cool the barrel. I think they decided pre-64 machined and post-64 stamped parts have no difference. But I'm still a pre-64 fan. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" To: "'Robert Krausert'" ; ; Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:46 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > Interested? You're asking that on a day like today? Heck yes! > > BTW - I put 150miles on the scooter since 9AM and 200 rounds of 45ACP > down-range - my sites were set for 100yds - just a tad smaller than > rockets, but any and all projectile motion is fun. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:12 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org > Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > > We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport > manager has already approved the date. > > Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before > requesting an FAA waiver. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 18:02:08 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 18:02:08 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <001201cabd97$f36c68c0$da453a40$@com> Message-ID: That's an excellent point. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want to use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping non-native material. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Steve, My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will not work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the altimeter reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its own chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper section is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by much. But the sand will be gone. Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cutonilli" To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't know > why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is > intended. > > Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat - > not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the > poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it > terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take hold > on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal > velocity. > > But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key > to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be fast > blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. > > How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form > such as 76mm to 29mm first. > > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then > jettison > the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving > space > because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery > gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue > compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of > the > parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the > drag > which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that > idea. Thanks. > > Paul Bogdanich > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sat Mar 6 18:30:28 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 21:30:28 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Message-ID: <67e16.24391dbe.38c469c4@aol.com> I don't think I'd sweat dumping a handful of "non native" sand at 60K+'. The dispersal on that would be thin indeed. Mike F. In a message dated 3/6/2010 6:02:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, steve-c at ix.netcom.com writes: That's an excellent point. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want to use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping non-native material. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 6 18:43:58 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 18:43:58 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check References: <67e16.24391dbe.38c469c4@aol.com> Message-ID: Plain-jane sand should be fine. Before you bag it up for an event, toss the mix in the microwave for a few minutes. Be sure to include a container of water. Separate. That will prevent the microwave from over heating. But that way you know that all germs, organisms, etc are void. Come on Steve. Be cool if someone this year really gave they 35.5K waiver a good run for it's money. Just remember. And sorry, for the bummer. Boosted darts are null from TRA record attempts. But we at Brothers can surely recognize you for any new record!!! Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >I don't think I'd sweat dumping a handful of "non native" sand at 60K+'. > The dispersal on that would be thin indeed. > > Mike F. > > > > > In a message dated 3/6/2010 6:02:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > steve-c at ix.netcom.com writes: > > That's an excellent point. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM > To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; > rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want > to > use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping > non-native > material. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Sat Mar 6 19:28:51 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 19:28:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <743942.50040.qm@web112904.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I think your situation is not as complex as I made mine ( using water, I needed?vacuum-breakers -water out, air in)?and, the use?of sand really would simplify things.? I picture a length of stocking (or similar shear tubular?material about twice as long as you? need it.? the closed end is attached to the drogue chute line so that when it deploys so does the stocking. the open end of the stocking is rolled tight to the sand and the whole thing slid in open end up into the rocket. There may be need for a perforated bulkhead just deep enough in the body tube to hold the ballast and?drogue?chute, ?something to "pack" the ballast against and to keep it in place during flight and take-off.? One thing I did learn is that a non static load can put a lot of extra strain on the airframe.? On my second launch there was a moderate breeze, because all my?weight was up front, the mass of the water and the?weather-cocking force on the back end?worked together to fold?my rocket in half, conceptually the same forces at work as a drag separation except the forces are not lineal.? The mass wanted to move in a straight line but the?back end of the rocket wanted to veer?away from the wind = folded rocket.? I know that?my structural failure was due to the fact that the body tube was nothing but thin PETE water bottle (and 6+ feet long), and that thicker or reinforced body tube would?have solved my problem but,? I would imaging that with the dart, you will be dealing with forces much greater than what I was dealing with and putting a large mass to one?end of the rocket (away from the center of mass) multiplies the strain on the body tube.??That is another thing to think about,?depending on the total added mass drag sep. could?be a real issue.? Long-story-short, ?you don't want that extra weight moving around en mass so having it contained in a tight space is probably the way to go, and if your construction allows it, put the mass closer to cg.? I am eager to hear what you decide, keep us posted. Robert Braibish ________________________________ From: Steve Cutonilli To: Robert Braibish ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 5:44:30 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Ooooh?experience?I?m listening? ? -----Original Message----- From: Robert Braibish [mailto:cpovercg at rocketmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 20103:27 PM To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check ? Steve, conceptually, I did this very thing at Rocketober last year with a rocket using water as a "ballast".? My intent was to have a rocket that went up with optimal mass and would slowly loose mass (drain)?on decent thus slowing down.?? I?sized?my?chutes for the empty decent weight/velocity and then calculated what drain rate would?give?me an?empty volume at an altitude low enough to?minimize drift.??I'll tell you what, ?If you are looking for some high-end differential calculus try calculating the drain rate of a "vessel" that is descending - changing mass, changing decent rate, changing volume... all at the same time.? After I pounded that over for a while I realized as long as I solved for my limits?that how quickly it drained was not really an issue. Anyhow, I had a very successful first flight but on the second flight with more weight and a much larger motor, I had a structural failure (the rocket was actually constructed of water bottles so it was an untried material).? I chose to use water because its "drain rate" was quicker (and I guess I was going with a theme since the rocket was made from water bottles).? I know sand will work too, in fact I tried a few tests to get data (drain rates etc.)? If you are controlling decent with chutes and?altimeters then I don't see a problem with dropping all your weight at one shot.? My?failed flight had?the top half of my rocket come down with the full load weight. it was no more dangerous than had the rocket been constructed of heavier materials and not had ballast.? In terms of relative danger,?I don't think that you should have to design?in a factor of safety for a failure event, whether the rocket's weight?is?due to construction materials or ballast, a falling rocket is dangerous but it is a hazard that we all are aware of and make provisions for. ? For what it is worth, I have plans to rebuild the new and improved "Bottle Rocket" for flights this year.? ? Robert Braibish ? ________________________________ From:"steve-c at ix.netcom.com" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Fri, March 5, 201011:59:28 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check So, I'm thinking about a boosted dart project and was wondering if it would be okay to discharge "sand" at altitude in an effort to shed mass and lessen the burden on recovery bits. Say, detect apogee then delay to 30K AGL for mass dump cycle to activate, may last 6-7 seconds to when the dart could hopefully become unstable then deploy chute normally.? How different than any other rocket is this in terms of dangers if one factors failure modes only?? /Steve? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 6 21:00:56 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 21:00:56 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <743942.50040.qm@web112904.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6FBB057645D24280B4D8A484DAA9E053@steve> Way cool for taking time to describe that Robert - to be continued this season for sure - I'm bandwidth limited to be honest with you and since you have an interest and experience in this realm, buy all means take the lead - I would be honored to build you all the research motors needed along the way (up to O-class for BALLS). I like the idea to contain the sand in a stocking and attaching such to a drogue. Streamer would be cool too - either way, I'm a believer in orderly descent. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: Robert Braibish [mailto:cpovercg at rocketmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:29 PM To: Steve Cutonilli; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check I think your situation is not as complex as I made mine ( using water, I needed vacuum-breakers -water out, air in) and, the use of sand really would simplify things. I picture a length of stocking (or similar shear tubular material about twice as long as you need it. the closed end is attached to the drogue chute line so that when it deploys so does the stocking. the open end of the stocking is rolled tight to the sand and the whole thing slid in open end up into the rocket. There may be need for a perforated bulkhead just deep enough in the body tube to hold the ballast and drogue chute, something to "pack" the ballast against and to keep it in place during flight and take-off. One thing I did learn is that a non static load can put a lot of extra strain on the airframe. On my second launch there was a moderate breeze, because all my weight was up front, the mass of the water and the weather-cocking force on the back end worked together to fold my rocket in half, conceptually the same forces at work as a drag separation except the forces are not lineal. The mass wanted to move in a straight line but the back end of the rocket wanted to veer away from the wind = folded rocket. I know that my structural failure was due to the fact that the body tube was nothing but thin PETE water bottle (and 6+ feet long), and that thicker or reinforced body tube would have solved my problem but, I would imaging that with the dart, you will be dealing with forces much greater than what I was dealing with and putting a large mass to one end of the rocket (away from the center of mass) multiplies the strain on the body tube. That is another thing to think about, depending on the total added mass drag sep. could be a real issue. Long-story-short, you don't want that extra weight moving around en mass so having it contained in a tight space is probably the way to go, and if your construction allows it, put the mass closer to cg. I am eager to hear what you decide, keep us posted. Robert Braibish _____ From: Steve Cutonilli To: Robert Braibish ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 5:44:30 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Ooooh.experience.I'm listening. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Braibish [mailto:cpovercg at rocketmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 3:27 PM To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Steve, conceptually, I did this very thing at Rocketober last year with a rocket using water as a "ballast". My intent was to have a rocket that went up with optimal mass and would slowly loose mass (drain) on decent thus slowing down. I sized my chutes for the empty decent weight/velocity and then calculated what drain rate would give me an empty volume at an altitude low enough to minimize drift. I'll tell you what, If you are looking for some high-end differential calculus try calculating the drain rate of a "vessel" that is descending - changing mass, changing decent rate, changing volume... all at the same time. After I pounded that over for a while I realized as long as I solved for my limits that how quickly it drained was not really an issue. Anyhow, I had a very successful first flight but on the second flight with more weight and a much larger motor, I had a structural failure (the rocket was actually constructed of water bottles so it was an untried material). I chose to use water because its "drain rate" was quicker (and I guess I was going with a theme since the rocket was made from water bottles). I know sand will work too, in fact I tried a few tests to get data (drain rates etc.) If you are controlling decent with chutes and altimeters then I don't see a problem with dropping all your weight at one shot. My failed flight had the top half of my rocket come down with the full load weight. it was no more dangerous than had the rocket been constructed of heavier materials and not had ballast. In terms of relative danger, I don't think that you should have to design in a factor of safety for a failure event, whether the rocket's weight is due to construction materials or ballast, a falling rocket is dangerous but it is a hazard that we all are aware of and make provisions for. For what it is worth, I have plans to rebuild the new and improved "Bottle Rocket" for flights this year. Robert Braibish _____ From: "steve-c at ix.netcom.com" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Fri, March 5, 2010 11:59:28 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check So, I'm thinking about a boosted dart project and was wondering if it would be okay to discharge "sand" at altitude in an effort to shed mass and lessen the burden on recovery bits. Say, detect apogee then delay to 30K AGL for mass dump cycle to activate, may last 6-7 seconds to when the dart could hopefully become unstable then deploy chute normally. How different than any other rocket is this in terms of dangers if one factors failure modes only? /Steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From stevet19759 at comcast.net Sun Mar 7 01:11:47 2010 From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 01:11:47 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project Message-ID: <4B936DD3.5010803@comcast.net> I'm looking for someone who can machine a few small parts for a rocket project. My first part is a roughly 3" aluminum disc, perhaps .10" or .12" thick, with some slots and sections cut out. Nothing too fancy, but I need better precision than I can get with woodworking tools. If you're interested, let me know and I'll send a PDF of my drawing. -Steve Tarr From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Sun Mar 7 07:15:02 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 07:15:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C0@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package installed, but inactive. Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag separation, main out too early)? After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers would keep things together during the flight. They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were ready to launch their vehicle. Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and they have data to report to NASA. For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed to do. Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 7 07:37:38 2010 From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 07:37:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Message-ID: <868030.39232.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Robert, We always start to throw out dates during the winter for possible pick-up launches, but we wait for OROC waiver to be active before we confirm.? We always have, and always will get permissions from BOD and landowner before launching.? Since this proposed event is at least 7 weeks away, we still have time to say go or no-go before bothering you or the BOD.? Our motor vendor is going to be no-go, so definitely up in the air (not in a good way) for now.? Don't hold your breath. Cheers, Larry BORG ? ________________________________ From: Robert Krausert To: Larry Colvin ; estimado at comcast.net; Steve Cutonilli ; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 4:23:58 PM Subject: Re: [OROC Members] [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Larry, Please with all pick up launches. Let the BoD know and get permission from Chris. This is the first I've heard of this event. Would like to know. ? Are you planning to use the OROC waiver, or using your own? ? Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- >From: Larry Colvin >To: estimado at comcast.net ; Steve Cutonilli ; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ; Robert Krausert ; rockets at rocketsnw.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org >Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:20 PM >Subject: Re: [OROC Members] [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > > >Yes, The BORG is planning a pick-up launch that weekend.? We are open to visitors from the valley joining us.? We will choose either Saturday the 17th or Sunday the 18th depending on what works best for everyone.? I will put my vote in for?Sunday at this point as it looks like there is a conflict in my schedule for Saturday.? If weather is bad, we scrap the plans over breakfast at Pilot Butte Drive In in Bend. >? >Larry >BORG > > > ________________________________ From: "estimado at comcast.net" >To: Steve Cutonilli ; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com; Robert Krausert ; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org >Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 3:05:18 PM >Subject: Re: [OROC Members] [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > >Just an fyi...I think the BORG guys are planning a pick up launch in Brothers that same day. >Rich >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Steve Cutonilli" >Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 14:46:18 >To: 'Robert Krausert'; ; >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > >Interested?? You're asking that on a day like today? Heck yes!? > >BTW - I put 150miles on the scooter since 9AM and 200 rounds of 45ACP >down-range - my sites were set for 100yds - just a tad smaller than >rockets, but any and all projectile motion is fun.? /Steve > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:12 AM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org >Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > >We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport >manager has already approved the date. > >Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before >requesting an FAA waiver. > >Cheers, >Robert >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >? > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >? >_______________________________________________ >Members mailing list >Members at oregonrocketry.org >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > From vern_knowles at att.net Sun Mar 7 11:14:16 2010 From: vern_knowles at att.net (Vern Knowles) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:14:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project In-Reply-To: <4B936DD3.5010803@comcast.net> References: <4B936DD3.5010803@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000301cabe2a$61f795c0$0400a8c0@MainPC> Hi Steve, Check out http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ You can download their free CAD software and design an aluminum part like you described very easily. The software gives you an instant price quote too. Then press "submit" and you are done. They do great work. Very high precision. It's all CNC controlled right from the CAD file that you submit. Their prices are also very reasonable and far below what my local machine shop quotes. Their specialty is aluminum front panels but I have also used them many times for making centering rings, bulkheads, and all sorts of other aluminum (and even G10/FR4) parts. I am a very satisfied customer. Vern Knowles www.vernk.com > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tarr > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 2:12 AM > To: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project > > I'm looking for someone who can machine a few small parts for > a rocket > project. My first part is a roughly 3" aluminum disc, > perhaps .10" or > .12" thick, with some slots and sections cut out. Nothing too fancy, > but I need better precision than I can get with woodworking tools. > > If you're interested, let me know and I'll send a PDF of my drawing. > > -Steve Tarr > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Mar 7 12:04:50 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:04:50 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project References: <4B936DD3.5010803@comcast.net> <000301cabe2a$61f795c0$0400a8c0@MainPC> Message-ID: <1D590E5D372545C79B0B3F0D5BC3DED5@LaptopKrausert> Hey Vern, What a find! At least new for me. I'll certainly send them some business. Looks like they also work with anadized materials. Very nice. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vern Knowles" To: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project > > Hi Steve, > > Check out http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ > > You can download their free CAD software and design an aluminum part like > you described very > easily. The software gives you an instant price quote too. Then press > "submit" and you are done. > They do great work. Very high precision. It's all CNC controlled right > from the CAD file that you > submit. Their prices are also very reasonable and far below what my local > machine shop quotes. > > Their specialty is aluminum front panels but I have also used them many > times for making centering > rings, bulkheads, and all sorts of other aluminum (and even G10/FR4) > parts. I am a very satisfied > customer. > > Vern Knowles > www.vernk.com > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tarr >> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 2:12 AM >> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >> Subject: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project >> >> I'm looking for someone who can machine a few small parts for >> a rocket >> project. My first part is a roughly 3" aluminum disc, >> perhaps .10" or >> .12" thick, with some slots and sections cut out. Nothing too fancy, >> but I need better precision than I can get with woodworking tools. >> >> If you're interested, let me know and I'll send a PDF of my drawing. >> >> -Steve Tarr >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rnech at yahoo.com Sun Mar 7 12:28:32 2010 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:28:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC Message-ID: <113987.7817.qm@web111404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSDFzKdYVU From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Mar 7 13:29:45 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 13:29:45 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC References: <113987.7817.qm@web111404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Of the interview, the biggest thing I appreciated was his pure honesty. He never tried to act special, over powering, or a know-it-all. He held an interview using logic. His explanation of extra mass for one system versus another. The escape process. All was done extremely well. While NBC would have loved for him to come across as a risk-it-all nut job. They didn't get that. He did a great interview, and kept private areospace in check. And that's why the private sector will advance far further, faster, and at less cost than those ran by the house & senate. My opinion folks. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Nech" To: "NW Rocketry" Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 12:28 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSDFzKdYVU > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From arrsales at cox.net Sun Mar 7 13:50:38 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 16:50:38 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Blue Tube Rocksim Data Message-ID: Good Morning! Well after much grunting and groaning, I've completed the .csv files to integrate Blue Tube into Rocksim. The file is available for download on my home page. Here is all you have to do: 1. Extract the zip file into the "DATAIMPORT" folder in your Rocksim installation. 2. Launch Rocksim. It will see that there is data there and will import it into your application. The full suite of body tubes and tube couplers will be there for you to choose from as much effort has been taken to get the calculated material density and mass amounts to be within 1% of measured values. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions! Enjoy! Sincerely, Randy Randall J. Ejma TRA 9577 L3 Always Ready Rocketry www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com rejma0415 at cox.net From arrsales at cox.net Sun Mar 7 14:03:31 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:03:31 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C0@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C0@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <2647D1253326496BA8B2652BA75C97C7@apcp.local> Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. Love those things.. Any launch photos? Thanx! Randy -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package installed, but inactive. Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag separation, main out too early)? After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers would keep things together during the flight. They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were ready to launch their vehicle. Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and they have data to report to NASA. For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed to do. Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Mar 7 14:06:00 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 14:06:00 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Festivus & TIR Swan Falls First Launch Message-ID: <61835C3E41B647A98460E03D20AC253B@LaptopKrausert> WAC & TIR, Please send me your formal announcement of the launch, with some details... And I can certain add the announcement to the NWR website. Good timing to help get the word out and promote your launches. Simple abstract is fine. Paragraph or two with the details. Cheers, Robert From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Sun Mar 7 17:04:58 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:04:58 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C0@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <2647D1253326496BA8B2652BA75C97C7@apcp.local> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C3@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Thanks Randy, the stuff is impressively strong. As I mentioned the only damage stems from the fact that they didn't agressively sand the inside of the avbay before epoxying the bulkhead stop rings into place--so one of the stops sheared off its epoxy and the bulkheads and sled unit pushed it into the avbay by a good couple inches at some point during the flight. Agressive sanding of areas that will be epoxied is standard best practice for those of us who know good building technique, but unfortunately, the kids didn't always inquire about best practice before charging forward. That's why we call it a "learning experience". The kids did a tip-to-tip lamination of kevlar/CF twill material to reinforce the fins, and now brag that the combination of kevlar and bluetube makes the fincan "bulletproof". To all those of you who have been writing back to ask what happened with the MAWD, I have a hunch I know what the problem was, but I want to wait until I can go through the wiring diagram plan versus the actual wiring with the student in charge of recovery systems to confirm it before I speak out of turn. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 2:03 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. Love those things.. Any launch photos? Thanx! Randy -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package installed, but inactive. Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag separation, main out too early)? After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers would keep things together during the flight. They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were ready to launch their vehicle. Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and they have data to report to NASA. For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed to do. Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun Mar 7 17:42:15 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:42:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C0@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C0@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <073e791b135912032450cd19173ac592.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. Hint: NASA loves checklists, predefined procedures and actually following them... ;-) +McG+ > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the > trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the > test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and > then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes > trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" > and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost > 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the > epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not > properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would > get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it > landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three > weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the > deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the > final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do > what it is designed to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had > to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to > Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks > to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to > my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and > picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the > vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun Mar 7 18:07:04 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 18:07:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cc6bd4004c8910e43849716552511d5.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team couldn't tell it ever happened. I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want it...... +McG+ > That's an excellent point. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM > To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; > rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want > to > use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping > non-native > material. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM > To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about > gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be > radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP > propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum > generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all > at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high > altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM > To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Steve, > My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will > not > work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed > recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. > > What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the > altimeter > reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its > own > chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the > > sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper > section > is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. > > My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing > vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by > much. > But the sand will be gone. > > Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer > (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Cutonilli" > To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't > know >> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >> intended. >> >> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat > - >> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take > hold >> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >> velocity. >> >> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be > fast >> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >> >> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >> >> /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >> jettison >> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >> space >> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >> the >> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >> drag >> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >> idea. Thanks. >> >> Paul Bogdanich >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Mar 7 19:09:15 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:09:15 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check References: <8cc6bd4004c8910e43849716552511d5.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983@LaptopKrausert> Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as television, vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you should lightly bless everyone. ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Steve Cutonilli" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of > clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle > size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. > Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team > couldn't tell it ever happened. > > I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around > until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want > it...... > +McG+ > > >> That's an excellent point. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >> to >> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >> non-native >> material. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Steve, >> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >> not >> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >> >> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >> altimeter >> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >> own >> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >> >> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >> section >> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >> >> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >> much. >> But the sand will be gone. >> >> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> >>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >> know >>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>> intended. >>> >>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >> - >>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >> hold >>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>> velocity. >>> >>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >> fast >>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>> >>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>> >>> /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>> jettison >>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>> space >>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>> the >>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>> drag >>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>> idea. Thanks. >>> >>> Paul Bogdanich >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Sun Mar 7 19:23:52 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:23:52 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983@LaptopKrausert> References: <8cc6bd4004c8910e43849716552511d5.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> <3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <000b01cabe6e$c78654f0$5692fed0$@com> And if you are flying at the Playa, don't mention the sand discharge to the launch organizers :) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:09 PM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Steve Cutonilli Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as television, vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you should lightly bless everyone. ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Steve Cutonilli" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of > clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle > size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. > Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team > couldn't tell it ever happened. > > I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around > until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want > it...... > +McG+ > > >> That's an excellent point. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >> to >> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >> non-native >> material. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Steve, >> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >> not >> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >> >> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >> altimeter >> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >> own >> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >> >> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >> section >> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >> >> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >> much. >> But the sand will be gone. >> >> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> >>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >> know >>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>> intended. >>> >>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >> - >>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >> hold >>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>> velocity. >>> >>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >> fast >>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>> >>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>> >>> /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>> jettison >>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>> space >>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>> the >>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>> drag >>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>> idea. Thanks. >>> >>> Paul Bogdanich >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Sun Mar 7 21:01:58 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 21:01:58 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C0@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <073e791b135912032450cd19173ac592.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C8@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> They had a checklist. Learned a few things about actually following it. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 ________________________________ From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 5:42 PM To: Schurke, Peter Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. Hint: NASA loves checklists, predefined procedures and actually following them... ;-) +McG+ > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the > trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the > test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and > then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes > trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" > and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost > 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the > epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not > properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would > get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it > landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three > weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the > deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the > final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do > what it is designed to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had > to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to > Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks > to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to > my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and > picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the > vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From arrsales at cox.net Mon Mar 8 05:44:23 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 08:44:23 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C3@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C0@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <2647D1253326496BA8B2652BA75C97C7@apcp.local> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C3@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: Thanx for the kudos on the product and yes sanding seems to make a difference.. The epoxy will wick into the sanded area and the material turns darker. 99% of the time it would never make a difference but as we all know we build for "what might happen" and not what normally happens! :) -----Original Message----- From: Schurke, Peter [mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org] Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 8:05 PM To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report Thanks Randy, the stuff is impressively strong. As I mentioned the only damage stems from the fact that they didn't agressively sand the inside of the avbay before epoxying the bulkhead stop rings into place--so one of the stops sheared off its epoxy and the bulkheads and sled unit pushed it into the avbay by a good couple inches at some point during the flight. Agressive sanding of areas that will be epoxied is standard best practice for those of us who know good building technique, but unfortunately, the kids didn't always inquire about best practice before charging forward. That's why we call it a "learning experience". The kids did a tip-to-tip lamination of kevlar/CF twill material to reinforce the fins, and now brag that the combination of kevlar and bluetube makes the fincan "bulletproof". To all those of you who have been writing back to ask what happened with the MAWD, I have a hunch I know what the problem was, but I want to wait until I can go through the wiring diagram plan versus the actual wiring with the student in charge of recovery systems to confirm it before I speak out of turn. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 2:03 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. Love those things.. Any launch photos? Thanx! Randy -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package installed, but inactive. Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag separation, main out too early)? After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers would keep things together during the flight. They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were ready to launch their vehicle. Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and they have data to report to NASA. For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed to do. Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 09:13:45 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:13:45 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: Count me in for Tillamook! Now I will just have to find a J570 for my seeker. Chris Guenther On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Robert Krausert wrote: > We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport > manager has already approved the date. > > Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before > requesting an FAA waiver. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Mon Mar 8 09:33:30 2010 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:33:30 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: Now we just need Tillamook Research Days! -- Peter "Robert Krausert" To Sent by: , rockets-bounces at r ocketsnw.com cc Subject 03/06/2010 11:12 [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part AM Two - April 18th We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport manager has already approved the date. Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before requesting an FAA waiver. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From k2tsai at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 11:19:23 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:19:23 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Message-ID: <7816cff1003081119i1bb334d7tb12af975b6a86685@mail.gmail.com> Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the rail. Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower launcher. Cheers, - Ken From Mfreptiles at aol.com Mon Mar 8 11:37:14 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:37:14 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Message-ID: <25837.79a5fc61.38c6abea@aol.com> Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. Rick Clapp got a great photo a few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides trailing in the exhaust plume. :) Mike F. In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, k2tsai at gmail.com writes: Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the rail. Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower launcher. Cheers, - Ken From clappfamily at comcast.net Mon Mar 8 11:43:24 2010 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:43:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides In-Reply-To: <25837.79a5fc61.38c6abea@aol.com> Message-ID: <464904381.13168231268077404788.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles @ aol .com To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Fly-apart rail guides Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) ? Mike F. ? ? In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? k2tsai@ gmail .com writes: Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: http :// www . apogeerockets .com/education/downloads/Newsletter243. pdf There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower ?launcher. Cheers, - ?Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets@ rocketsnw .com http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets ?? From brodwcjj at integrity.com Mon Mar 8 12:24:15 2010 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:24:15 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Message-ID: <7a0391c12d9aefa1977e904697d06094.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> The thread brings up a few points: 1. I've been using eject-able ballast for years! It's called dog barf. Low density is a real issue however 2. As for the sand it will probably be someone looking up for the next rocket's apogee that will get sand in their eye. No worse than barf I guess. 3. Foreign sand particles on the playa may be found by geologists who will envision an asteroid strike that blew coastal sand that far inland. Yet another extinction theory supported. Tongue in cheek, and I need to go build something, Dustin From: "Scott Berfield" To: "'Robert Krausert'" , , "'Steve Cutonilli'" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Message-ID: <000b01cabe6e$c78654f0$5692fed0$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And if you are flying at the Playa, don't mention the sand discharge to the launch organizers :) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:09 PM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ; Steve Cutonilli Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as television, vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you should lightly bless everyone. ;-) Cheers, Robert From Mfreptiles at aol.com Mon Mar 8 13:02:51 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 16:02:51 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Message-ID: <2b5df.7c6f513d.38c6bffb@aol.com> Dunno, I never see the aftermath since I'm out recovering, but I do hear about it later. I really need to finish putting together my tower. Steve C. has the only pad that has survived my recent motors. That thing is very well built. Mike F. In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:43:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, clappfamily at comcast.net writes: Was that one of your Pad Destroyers! ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. Rick Clapp got a great photo a few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides trailing in the exhaust plume. :) Mike F. In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, k2tsai at gmail.com writes: Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the rail. Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower launcher. Cheers, - Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rnech at yahoo.com Mon Mar 8 13:40:39 2010 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 13:40:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique Message-ID: <136930.33047.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique ? Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name "Turbonique." The entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the '60s company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a consumer market for rocket technology. Now there's video. Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a mail-order speed parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane automotive upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the company "The Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder of awe among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target market. Even in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products represented the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that enigmatic mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon coyotes? Pikers, compared to Turbonique. The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust engines." All three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one rung up the ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? Thermolene monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and burn without the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a semi-monopropellant. It requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but only a small fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or kerosene. Most gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of air to support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front and compress it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into this hot air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive the turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical air-breathing gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive the compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and simply replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with a high-pressure storage bottle containing Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid fuel that brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine into the category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the combustion chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug connected to an on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot gases to spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented flames from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for "spectacular flaming night runs." ? ? "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a quiet whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at Bangshift. We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy Rocket Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought there was actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed anyone involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed in a tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the case. ? These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system and silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races associated with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a Rocket Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable quadruple Buick-engined dragster. But that's not all! How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a quick-change rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb and dumping it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny rocket powered boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility thanks to the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power [in Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best slicks of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but mediocre elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, it all came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact company founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, but unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and prison terms keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place without them. newVideoPlayer( {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"flashData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtube"} ); From clappfamily at comcast.net Mon Mar 8 13:56:29 2010 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 21:56:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides In-Reply-To: <2b5df.7c6f513d.38c6bffb@aol.com> Message-ID: <1721498842.14814211268085389629.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> We all love your Bombs on a Stick.? Your motors more explode then burn.? :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: clappfamily at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 1:02:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Dunno, I never see the aftermath since I'm out recovering, but I do hear about it later.? I really need to finish putting together my tower.? Steve C. has the only pad that has survived my recent motors.? That thing is very well built. Mike F. In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:43:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, clappfamily at comcast.net writes: Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) ? Mike F. ? ? In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? k2tsai at gmail.com writes: Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower ?launcher. Cheers, - ?Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? Dunno, I never see the aftermath since I'm out recovering, but I do hear about it later.? I really need to finish putting together my tower.? Steve C. has the only pad that has survived my recent motors.? That thing is very well built. Mike F. In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:43:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, clappfamily at comcast.net writes: Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) ? Mike F. ? ? In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? k2tsai at gmail.com writes: Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower ?launcher. Cheers, - ?Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Mon Mar 8 14:21:51 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (bwhitemarsh at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 22:21:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides In-Reply-To: <7816cff1003081119i1bb334d7tb12af975b6a86685@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <787198571.12556111268086911588.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Ken -- I read that article a little while ago.? It's an interesting idea, but there is an issue:? Washington Aerospace does not allow metal rail guides at its launches.? This includes Acme Railguides and I would assume the piano wire that Tim recommends to construct his pop-off rail guides.? Our aluminum rails don't do so well when a harder metal slides up them at high speeds.? Additionally,?WAC does not allow?railguides like?Acme's, regardless of their material (including plastic), as they have an increased risk?of binding on the rail, increasing the risk for?damage or injury.? Rail buttons only.? Probably have to stick to a tower for those minimum diameter birds.? Regards, Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Tsai" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:19:23 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower launcher. Cheers, ?- Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From robert.krausert at intel.com Mon Mar 8 15:01:38 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 15:01:38 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides In-Reply-To: <1721498842.14814211268085389629.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <2b5df.7c6f513d.38c6bffb@aol.com> <1721498842.14814211268085389629.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59AC52D5@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Now, now... Let's be PC here. Not bomb. But "extremely-fast-burning-slow-burn-solid-propellant." Not explode. But, "burning-faster-than-the-mind-can-articulate-slow-burn-solid-propellant." Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:56 PM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides We all love your Bombs on a Stick.? Your motors more explode then burn.? :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: clappfamily at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 1:02:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Dunno, I never see the aftermath since I'm out recovering, but I do hear about it later.? I really need to finish putting together my tower.? Steve C. has the only pad that has survived my recent motors.? That thing is very well built. Mike F. In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:43:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, clappfamily at comcast.net writes: Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) ? Mike F. ? ? In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? k2tsai at gmail.com writes: Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower ?launcher. Cheers, - ?Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? Dunno, I never see the aftermath since I'm out recovering, but I do hear about it later.? I really need to finish putting together my tower.? Steve C. has the only pad that has survived my recent motors.? That thing is very well built. Mike F. In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:43:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, clappfamily at comcast.net writes: Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) ? Mike F. ? ? In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? k2tsai at gmail.com writes: Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower ?launcher. Cheers, - ?Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From clappfamily at comcast.net Mon Mar 8 15:12:15 2010 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 23:12:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59AC52D5@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <1567032586.14859131268089935584.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Yeah!? Yeah! That's it! :-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: clappfamily at comcast.net, Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 3:01:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Now, now... Let's be PC here. Not bomb. But "extremely-fast-burning-slow-burn-solid-propellant." Not explode. But, "burning-faster-than-the-mind-can-articulate-slow-burn-solid-propellant." Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:56 PM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides We all love your Bombs on a Stick.? Your motors more explode then burn.? :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: clappfamily at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 1:02:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Dunno, I never see the aftermath since I'm out recovering, but I do hear about it later.? I really need to finish putting together my tower.? Steve C. has the only pad that has survived my recent motors.? That thing is very well built. Mike F. In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:43:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, clappfamily at comcast.net writes: Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) ? Mike F. ? ? In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? k2tsai at gmail.com writes: Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower ?launcher. Cheers, - ?Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? Dunno, I never see the aftermath since I'm out recovering, but I do hear about it later.? I really need to finish putting together my tower.? Steve C. has the only pad that has survived my recent motors.? That thing is very well built. Mike F. In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:43:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, clappfamily at comcast.net writes: Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) ? Mike F. ? ? In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? k2tsai at gmail.com writes: Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a tower ?launcher. Cheers, - ?Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From k2tsai at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 16:02:20 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 16:02:20 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides In-Reply-To: <787198571.12556111268086911588.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <7816cff1003081119i1bb334d7tb12af975b6a86685@mail.gmail.com> <787198571.12556111268086911588.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <7816cff1003081602m472078c6g1dba0a0b76cc5b15@mail.gmail.com> Interesting... How about using balsa/plywood as the actual guide, or even a rail button epoxied onto the "fly-apart" section? Doesn't have to be music wire, just something reasonably stiff to conform to the rail guide. Thanks for the heads-up on the Acme guides. I've got a couple birds with them, so I'll have to figure some alternative for them when using club GSE. Based on your comments, I'm assuming the plastic PML linear guides are also out. Cheers, - Ken On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:21 PM, wrote: > Ken -- > > I read that article a little while ago.? It's an interesting idea, but there > is an issue:? Washington Aerospace does not allow metal rail guides at its > launches.? This includes Acme Railguides and I would assume the piano wire > that Tim recommends to construct his pop-off rail guides.? Our aluminum > rails don't do so well when a harder metal slides up them at high speeds. > Additionally,?WAC does not allow?railguides like?Acme's, regardless of their > material (including plastic), as they have an increased risk?of binding on > the rail, increasing the risk for?damage or injury.? Rail buttons only. > Probably have to stick to a tower for those minimum diameter birds. > > Regards, > > Bryan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Tsai" > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:19:23 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > > Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf > > There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower launcher. > > Cheers, > ?- Ken > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From andrew at psas.pdx.edu Mon Mar 8 16:49:03 2010 From: andrew at psas.pdx.edu (Andrew Greenberg) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:49:03 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] L1 certification at Tillamook 4/18 launch? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B959AFF.2020909@psas.pdx.edu> Hi! A few of us from PSAS (http://psas.pdx.edu/) would like to get our L1 certs at the 4/18 Tillamook launch. Will there be TAP members at that launch to certify us? Assuming we launch and recover successfully, of course. :) Andrew rockets-request at rocketsnw.com wrote: > Send Rockets mailing list submissions to > rockets at rocketsnw.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockets-request at rocketsnw.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockets-owner at rocketsnw.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockets digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: machining help wanted for a rocket project (Robert Krausert) > 2. Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC (Robert Nech) > 3. Re: Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC (Robert Krausert) > 4. Blue Tube Rocksim Data (Always Ready Rocketry) > 5. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > (Always Ready Rocketry) > 6. WAC Spring Festivus & TIR Swan Falls First Launch > (Robert Krausert) > 7. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report (Schurke, Peter) > 8. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) > 9. Re: TRA code sanity check (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) > 10. Re: TRA code sanity check (Robert Krausert) > 11. Re: TRA code sanity check (Scott Berfield) > 12. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report (Schurke, Peter) > 13. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > (Always Ready Rocketry) > 14. Re: Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th (Christopher Guenther) > 15. Re: Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) > 16. Fly-apart rail guides (Ken Tsai) > 17. Re: Fly-apart rail guides (Mfreptiles at aol.com) > 18. Re: Fly-apart rail guides (clappfamily at comcast.net) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:04:50 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Vern Knowles" , "'NW Rocketry mailing > list'" > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project > Message-ID: <1D590E5D372545C79B0B3F0D5BC3DED5 at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hey Vern, > What a find! At least new for me. I'll certainly send them some business. > Looks like they also work with anadized materials. Very nice. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vern Knowles" > To: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:14 AM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project > > >> Hi Steve, >> >> Check out http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ >> >> You can download their free CAD software and design an aluminum part like >> you described very >> easily. The software gives you an instant price quote too. Then press >> "submit" and you are done. >> They do great work. Very high precision. It's all CNC controlled right >> from the CAD file that you >> submit. Their prices are also very reasonable and far below what my local >> machine shop quotes. >> >> Their specialty is aluminum front panels but I have also used them many >> times for making centering >> rings, bulkheads, and all sorts of other aluminum (and even G10/FR4) >> parts. I am a very satisfied >> customer. >> >> Vern Knowles >> www.vernk.com >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tarr >>> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 2:12 AM >>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project >>> >>> I'm looking for someone who can machine a few small parts for >>> a rocket >>> project. My first part is a roughly 3" aluminum disc, >>> perhaps .10" or >>> .12" thick, with some slots and sections cut out. Nothing too fancy, >>> but I need better precision than I can get with woodworking tools. >>> >>> If you're interested, let me know and I'll send a PDF of my drawing. >>> >>> -Steve Tarr >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:28:32 -0800 (PST) > From: Robert Nech > To: NW Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > Message-ID: <113987.7817.qm at web111404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSDFzKdYVU > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 13:29:45 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Robert Nech" , "NW Rocketry" > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Of the interview, the biggest thing I appreciated was his pure honesty. He > never tried to act special, over powering, or a know-it-all. He held an > interview using logic. His explanation of extra mass for one system versus > another. The escape process. All was done extremely well. While NBC would > have loved for him to come across as a risk-it-all nut job. They didn't get > that. He did a great interview, and kept private areospace in check. And > that's why the private sector will advance far further, faster, and at less > cost than those ran by the house & senate. > > My opinion folks. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Nech" > To: "NW Rocketry" > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 12:28 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSDFzKdYVU >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 16:50:38 -0500 > From: "Always Ready Rocketry" > To: > Subject: [RocketsNW] Blue Tube Rocksim Data > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Good Morning! > > Well after much grunting and groaning, I've completed the .csv files to > integrate Blue Tube into Rocksim. The file is available for download on my > home page. Here is all you have to do: > > 1. Extract the zip file into the "DATAIMPORT" folder in your Rocksim > installation. > 2. Launch Rocksim. It will see that there is data there and will import it > into your application. > > The full suite of body tubes and tube couplers will be there for you to > choose from as much effort has been taken to get the calculated material > density and mass amounts to be within 1% of measured values. > > Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions! > > Enjoy! > > Sincerely, > > Randy > > Randall J. Ejma > TRA 9577 L3 > Always Ready Rocketry > www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com > rejma0415 at cox.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:03:31 -0500 > From: "Always Ready Rocketry" > To: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: <2647D1253326496BA8B2652BA75C97C7 at apcp.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a > beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. > Love those things.. > > Any launch photos? > > Thanx! > > Randy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek > over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control > launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then > the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying > to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and > adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 > feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy > holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand > the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). > That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks > for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment > correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in > Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed > to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to > make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget > Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all > the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my > students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked > up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 14:06:00 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: > Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Festivus & TIR Swan Falls First Launch > Message-ID: <61835C3E41B647A98460E03D20AC253B at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > WAC & TIR, > Please send me your formal announcement of the launch, with some details... And I can certain add the announcement to the NWR website. > > Good timing to help get the word out and promote your launches. > > Simple abstract is fine. Paragraph or two with the details. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:04:58 -0800 > From: "Schurke, Peter" > To: "Always Ready Rocketry" , > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C3 at CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks Randy, the stuff is impressively strong. > > As I mentioned the only damage stems from the fact that they didn't agressively sand the inside of the avbay before epoxying the bulkhead stop rings into place--so one of the stops sheared off its epoxy and the bulkheads and sled unit pushed it into the avbay by a good couple inches at some point during the flight. Agressive sanding of areas that will be epoxied is standard best practice for those of us who know good building technique, but unfortunately, the kids didn't always inquire about best practice before charging forward. That's why we call it a "learning experience". > > The kids did a tip-to-tip lamination of kevlar/CF twill material to reinforce the fins, and now brag that the combination of kevlar and bluetube makes the fincan "bulletproof". > > To all those of you who have been writing back to ask what happened with the MAWD, I have a hunch I know what the problem was, but I want to wait until I can go through the wiring diagram plan versus the actual wiring with the student in charge of recovery systems to confirm it before I speak out of turn. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Always Ready Rocketry > Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 2:03 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > > > > Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a > beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. > Love those things.. > > Any launch photos? > > Thanx! > > Randy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek > over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control > launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then > the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying > to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and > adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 > feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy > holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand > the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). > That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks > for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment > correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in > Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed > to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to > make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget > Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all > the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my > students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked > up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:42:15 -0800 (PST) > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: "Schurke, Peter" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > <073e791b135912032450cd19173ac592.squirrel at www.worldaccessnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. > > Hint: NASA loves checklists, predefined procedures and actually following > them... ;-) > +McG+ > > >> Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of >> family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the >> trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the >> test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. >> Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an >> opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test >> flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. >> >> We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a >> different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and >> then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. >> >> As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for >> this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package >> installed, but inactive. >> >> Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a >> Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes >> trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" >> and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. >> >> Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of >> shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be >> made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested >> with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they >> risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would >> be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and >> separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), >> versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag >> separation, main out too early)? >> >> After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins >> altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers >> would keep things together during the flight. >> >> They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist >> of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on >> the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but >> that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) >> >> The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, >> but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were >> ready to launch their vehicle. >> >> Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost >> 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. >> >> The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as >> planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin >> coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three >> (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. >> >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of >> recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to >> "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. >> >> Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest >> thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the >> epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not >> properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would >> get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it >> landed. >> >> Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their >> mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and >> they have data to report to NASA. >> >> For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three >> weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the >> deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the >> final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do >> what it is designed to do. >> >> Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the >> scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had >> to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to >> Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks >> to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to >> my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and >> picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the >> vehicle. >> >> More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. >> >> Peter Schurke >> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor >> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy >> Ingraham High School >> 1819 N 135th St. >> Seattle, WA 98133 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 18:07:04 -0800 (PST) > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Message-ID: > <8cc6bd4004c8910e43849716552511d5.squirrel at www.worldaccessnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of > clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle > size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. > Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team > couldn't tell it ever happened. > > I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around > until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want > it...... > +McG+ > > >> That's an excellent point. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >> to >> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >> non-native >> material. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Steve, >> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >> not >> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >> >> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >> altimeter >> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >> own >> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >> >> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >> section >> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >> >> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >> much. >> But the sand will be gone. >> >> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> >>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >> know >>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>> intended. >>> >>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >> - >>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >> hold >>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>> velocity. >>> >>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >> fast >>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>> >>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>> >>> /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>> jettison >>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>> space >>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>> the >>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>> drag >>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>> idea. Thanks. >>> >>> Paul Bogdanich >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:09:15 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: , "Steve Cutonilli" > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Message-ID: <3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983 at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as television, > vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you should > lightly bless everyone. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of >> clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle >> size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. >> Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team >> couldn't tell it ever happened. >> >> I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around >> until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want >> it...... >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's an excellent point. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >>> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >>> to >>> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >>> non-native >>> material. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >>> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >>> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >>> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >>> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >>> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >>> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >>> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Steve, >>> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >>> not >>> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >>> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >>> >>> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >>> altimeter >>> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >>> own >>> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >>> >>> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >>> section >>> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >>> >>> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >>> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >>> much. >>> But the sand will be gone. >>> >>> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >>> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >>> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> >>>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >>> know >>>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>>> intended. >>>> >>>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >>> - >>>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >>> hold >>>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>>> velocity. >>>> >>>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >>> fast >>>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>>> >>>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>>> >>>> /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>>> >>>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>>> jettison >>>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>>> space >>>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>>> the >>>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>>> drag >>>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>>> idea. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Paul Bogdanich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:23:52 -0800 > From: "Scott Berfield" > To: "'Robert Krausert'" , > , "'Steve Cutonilli'" > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Message-ID: <000b01cabe6e$c78654f0$5692fed0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > And if you are flying at the Playa, don't mention the sand discharge to the > launch organizers :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:09 PM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Steve Cutonilli > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as television, > vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you should > > lightly bless everyone. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of >> clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle >> size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. >> Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team >> couldn't tell it ever happened. >> >> I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around >> until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want >> it...... >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's an excellent point. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >>> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >>> to >>> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >>> non-native >>> material. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >>> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >>> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >>> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >>> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >>> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >>> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >>> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Steve, >>> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >>> not >>> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >>> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >>> >>> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >>> altimeter >>> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >>> own >>> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >>> >>> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >>> section >>> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >>> >>> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >>> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >>> much. >>> But the sand will be gone. >>> >>> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >>> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >>> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> >>>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >>> know >>>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>>> intended. >>>> >>>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >>> - >>>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >>> hold >>>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>>> velocity. >>>> >>>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >>> fast >>>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>>> >>>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>>> >>>> /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>>> >>>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>>> jettison >>>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>>> space >>>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>>> the >>>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>>> drag >>>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>>> idea. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Paul Bogdanich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 21:01:58 -0800 > From: "Schurke, Peter" > To: > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C8 at CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > They had a checklist. Learned a few things about actually following it. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] > Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 5:42 PM > To: Schurke, Peter > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > > >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. > > Hint: NASA loves checklists, predefined procedures and actually following > them... ;-) > +McG+ > > >> Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of >> family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the >> trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the >> test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. >> Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an >> opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test >> flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. >> >> We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a >> different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and >> then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. >> >> As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for >> this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package >> installed, but inactive. >> >> Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a >> Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes >> trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" >> and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. >> >> Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of >> shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be >> made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested >> with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they >> risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would >> be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and >> separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), >> versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag >> separation, main out too early)? >> >> After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins >> altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers >> would keep things together during the flight. >> >> They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist >> of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on >> the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but >> that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) >> >> The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, >> but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were >> ready to launch their vehicle. >> >> Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost >> 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. >> >> The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as >> planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin >> coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three >> (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. >> >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of >> recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to >> "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. >> >> Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest >> thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the >> epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not >> properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would >> get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it >> landed. >> >> Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their >> mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and >> they have data to report to NASA. >> >> For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three >> weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the >> deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the >> final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do >> what it is designed to do. >> >> Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the >> scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had >> to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to >> Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks >> to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to >> my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and >> picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the >> vehicle. >> >> More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. >> >> Peter Schurke >> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor >> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy >> Ingraham High School >> 1819 N 135th St. >> Seattle, WA 98133 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 08:44:23 -0500 > From: "Always Ready Rocketry" > To: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanx for the kudos on the product and yes sanding seems to make a > difference.. The epoxy will wick into the sanded area and the material turns > darker. 99% of the time it would never make a difference but as we all know > we build for "what might happen" and not what normally happens! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Schurke, Peter [mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org] > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 8:05 PM > To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Thanks Randy, the stuff is impressively strong. > > As I mentioned the only damage stems from the fact that they didn't > agressively sand the inside of the avbay before epoxying the bulkhead stop > rings into place--so one of the stops sheared off its epoxy and the > bulkheads and sled unit pushed it into the avbay by a good couple inches at > some point during the flight. Agressive sanding of areas that will be > epoxied is standard best practice for those of us who know good building > technique, but unfortunately, the kids didn't always inquire about best > practice before charging forward. That's why we call it a "learning > experience". > > The kids did a tip-to-tip lamination of kevlar/CF twill material to > reinforce the fins, and now brag that the combination of kevlar and bluetube > makes the fincan "bulletproof". > > To all those of you who have been writing back to ask what happened with the > MAWD, I have a hunch I know what the problem was, but I want to wait until I > can go through the wiring diagram plan versus the actual wiring with the > student in charge of recovery systems to confirm it before I speak out of > turn. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Always Ready Rocketry > Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 2:03 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > > > > Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a > beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. > Love those things.. > > Any launch photos? > > Thanx! > > Randy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek > over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control > launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then > the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying > to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and > adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 > feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy > holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand > the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). > That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks > for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment > correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in > Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed > to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to > make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget > Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all > the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my > students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked > up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:13:45 -0800 > From: Christopher Guenther > To: Robert Krausert > Cc: members at oregonrocketry.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Count me in for Tillamook! Now I will just have to find a J570 for my > seeker. > > Chris Guenther > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Robert Krausert > wrote: > >> We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport >> manager has already approved the date. >> >> Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before >> requesting an FAA waiver. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:33:30 -0800 > From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com > To: members at oregonrocketry.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com, > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Now we just need Tillamook Research Days! > > -- Peter > > > > > "Robert Krausert" > gmail.com> To > Sent by: , > rockets-bounces at r > ocketsnw.com cc > > Subject > 03/06/2010 11:12 [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part > AM Two - April 18th > > > > > > > > > > > We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport > manager has already approved the date. > > Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before > requesting an FAA waiver. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:19:23 -0800 > From: Ken Tsai > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > Message-ID: > <7816cff1003081119i1bb334d7tb12af975b6a86685 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf > > There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the rail. Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower launcher. > > Cheers, > - Ken > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:37:14 EST > From: Mfreptiles at aol.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > Message-ID: <25837.79a5fc61.38c6abea at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. Rick Clapp got a great photo a > few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides > trailing in the exhaust plume. :) > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > k2tsai at gmail.com writes: > > Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf > > There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the rail. Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower launcher. > > Cheers, > - Ken > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:43:24 +0000 (UTC) > From: clappfamily at comcast.net > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > Message-ID: > <464904381.13168231268077404788.JavaMail.root at sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) > > > > > > Rick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mfreptiles @ aol .com > To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Fly-apart rail guides > > Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a > few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? > trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) > ? > Mike F. > ? > ? > In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? > k2tsai@ gmail .com writes: > > Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: > http :// www . apogeerockets .com/education/downloads/Newsletter243. pdf > > There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower ?launcher. > > Cheers, > - ?Ken > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets@ rocketsnw .com > http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets > ?? > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 > ************************************** > > -- ------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Greenberg Portland State Aerospace Society (http://psas.pdx.edu/) andrew at psas.pdx.edu P: 503.788.1343 C: 503.708.7711 ------------------------------------------------------- From robert.krausert at intel.com Mon Mar 8 16:52:55 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 16:52:55 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] L1 certification at Tillamook 4/18 launch? In-Reply-To: <4B959AFF.2020909@psas.pdx.edu> References: <4B959AFF.2020909@psas.pdx.edu> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59AC54B5@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Our Prefect cannot attend. So you're now asking Fred Azinger, one of our TAPs. Good luck. Hope Fred can join us. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Greenberg Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:49 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] L1 certification at Tillamook 4/18 launch? Hi! A few of us from PSAS (http://psas.pdx.edu/) would like to get our L1 certs at the 4/18 Tillamook launch. Will there be TAP members at that launch to certify us? Assuming we launch and recover successfully, of course. :) Andrew rockets-request at rocketsnw.com wrote: > Send Rockets mailing list submissions to > rockets at rocketsnw.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockets-request at rocketsnw.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockets-owner at rocketsnw.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockets digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: machining help wanted for a rocket project (Robert Krausert) > 2. Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC (Robert Nech) > 3. Re: Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC (Robert Krausert) > 4. Blue Tube Rocksim Data (Always Ready Rocketry) > 5. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > (Always Ready Rocketry) > 6. WAC Spring Festivus & TIR Swan Falls First Launch > (Robert Krausert) > 7. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report (Schurke, Peter) > 8. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) > 9. Re: TRA code sanity check (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) > 10. Re: TRA code sanity check (Robert Krausert) > 11. Re: TRA code sanity check (Scott Berfield) > 12. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report (Schurke, Peter) > 13. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > (Always Ready Rocketry) > 14. Re: Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th (Christopher Guenther) > 15. Re: Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) > 16. Fly-apart rail guides (Ken Tsai) > 17. Re: Fly-apart rail guides (Mfreptiles at aol.com) > 18. Re: Fly-apart rail guides (clappfamily at comcast.net) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:04:50 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Vern Knowles" , "'NW Rocketry mailing > list'" > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project > Message-ID: <1D590E5D372545C79B0B3F0D5BC3DED5 at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hey Vern, > What a find! At least new for me. I'll certainly send them some business. > Looks like they also work with anadized materials. Very nice. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vern Knowles" > To: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:14 AM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project > > >> Hi Steve, >> >> Check out http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ >> >> You can download their free CAD software and design an aluminum part like >> you described very >> easily. The software gives you an instant price quote too. Then press >> "submit" and you are done. >> They do great work. Very high precision. It's all CNC controlled right >> from the CAD file that you >> submit. Their prices are also very reasonable and far below what my local >> machine shop quotes. >> >> Their specialty is aluminum front panels but I have also used them many >> times for making centering >> rings, bulkheads, and all sorts of other aluminum (and even G10/FR4) >> parts. I am a very satisfied >> customer. >> >> Vern Knowles >> www.vernk.com >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tarr >>> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 2:12 AM >>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project >>> >>> I'm looking for someone who can machine a few small parts for >>> a rocket >>> project. My first part is a roughly 3" aluminum disc, >>> perhaps .10" or >>> .12" thick, with some slots and sections cut out. Nothing too fancy, >>> but I need better precision than I can get with woodworking tools. >>> >>> If you're interested, let me know and I'll send a PDF of my drawing. >>> >>> -Steve Tarr >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:28:32 -0800 (PST) > From: Robert Nech > To: NW Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > Message-ID: <113987.7817.qm at web111404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSDFzKdYVU > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 13:29:45 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Robert Nech" , "NW Rocketry" > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Of the interview, the biggest thing I appreciated was his pure honesty. He > never tried to act special, over powering, or a know-it-all. He held an > interview using logic. His explanation of extra mass for one system versus > another. The escape process. All was done extremely well. While NBC would > have loved for him to come across as a risk-it-all nut job. They didn't get > that. He did a great interview, and kept private areospace in check. And > that's why the private sector will advance far further, faster, and at less > cost than those ran by the house & senate. > > My opinion folks. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Nech" > To: "NW Rocketry" > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 12:28 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSDFzKdYVU >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 16:50:38 -0500 > From: "Always Ready Rocketry" > To: > Subject: [RocketsNW] Blue Tube Rocksim Data > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Good Morning! > > Well after much grunting and groaning, I've completed the .csv files to > integrate Blue Tube into Rocksim. The file is available for download on my > home page. Here is all you have to do: > > 1. Extract the zip file into the "DATAIMPORT" folder in your Rocksim > installation. > 2. Launch Rocksim. It will see that there is data there and will import it > into your application. > > The full suite of body tubes and tube couplers will be there for you to > choose from as much effort has been taken to get the calculated material > density and mass amounts to be within 1% of measured values. > > Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions! > > Enjoy! > > Sincerely, > > Randy > > Randall J. Ejma > TRA 9577 L3 > Always Ready Rocketry > www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com > rejma0415 at cox.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:03:31 -0500 > From: "Always Ready Rocketry" > To: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: <2647D1253326496BA8B2652BA75C97C7 at apcp.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a > beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. > Love those things.. > > Any launch photos? > > Thanx! > > Randy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek > over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control > launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then > the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying > to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and > adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 > feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy > holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand > the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). > That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks > for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment > correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in > Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed > to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to > make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget > Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all > the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my > students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked > up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 14:06:00 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: > Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Festivus & TIR Swan Falls First Launch > Message-ID: <61835C3E41B647A98460E03D20AC253B at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > WAC & TIR, > Please send me your formal announcement of the launch, with some details... And I can certain add the announcement to the NWR website. > > Good timing to help get the word out and promote your launches. > > Simple abstract is fine. Paragraph or two with the details. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:04:58 -0800 > From: "Schurke, Peter" > To: "Always Ready Rocketry" , > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C3 at CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks Randy, the stuff is impressively strong. > > As I mentioned the only damage stems from the fact that they didn't agressively sand the inside of the avbay before epoxying the bulkhead stop rings into place--so one of the stops sheared off its epoxy and the bulkheads and sled unit pushed it into the avbay by a good couple inches at some point during the flight. Agressive sanding of areas that will be epoxied is standard best practice for those of us who know good building technique, but unfortunately, the kids didn't always inquire about best practice before charging forward. That's why we call it a "learning experience". > > The kids did a tip-to-tip lamination of kevlar/CF twill material to reinforce the fins, and now brag that the combination of kevlar and bluetube makes the fincan "bulletproof". > > To all those of you who have been writing back to ask what happened with the MAWD, I have a hunch I know what the problem was, but I want to wait until I can go through the wiring diagram plan versus the actual wiring with the student in charge of recovery systems to confirm it before I speak out of turn. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Always Ready Rocketry > Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 2:03 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > > > > Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a > beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. > Love those things.. > > Any launch photos? > > Thanx! > > Randy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek > over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control > launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then > the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying > to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and > adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 > feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy > holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand > the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). > That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks > for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment > correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in > Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed > to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to > make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget > Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all > the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my > students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked > up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:42:15 -0800 (PST) > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: "Schurke, Peter" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > <073e791b135912032450cd19173ac592.squirrel at www.worldaccessnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. > > Hint: NASA loves checklists, predefined procedures and actually following > them... ;-) > +McG+ > > >> Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of >> family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the >> trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the >> test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. >> Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an >> opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test >> flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. >> >> We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a >> different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and >> then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. >> >> As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for >> this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package >> installed, but inactive. >> >> Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a >> Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes >> trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" >> and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. >> >> Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of >> shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be >> made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested >> with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they >> risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would >> be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and >> separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), >> versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag >> separation, main out too early)? >> >> After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins >> altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers >> would keep things together during the flight. >> >> They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist >> of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on >> the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but >> that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) >> >> The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, >> but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were >> ready to launch their vehicle. >> >> Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost >> 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. >> >> The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as >> planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin >> coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three >> (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. >> >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of >> recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to >> "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. >> >> Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest >> thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the >> epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not >> properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would >> get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it >> landed. >> >> Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their >> mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and >> they have data to report to NASA. >> >> For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three >> weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the >> deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the >> final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do >> what it is designed to do. >> >> Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the >> scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had >> to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to >> Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks >> to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to >> my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and >> picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the >> vehicle. >> >> More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. >> >> Peter Schurke >> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor >> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy >> Ingraham High School >> 1819 N 135th St. >> Seattle, WA 98133 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 18:07:04 -0800 (PST) > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Message-ID: > <8cc6bd4004c8910e43849716552511d5.squirrel at www.worldaccessnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of > clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle > size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. > Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team > couldn't tell it ever happened. > > I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around > until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want > it...... > +McG+ > > >> That's an excellent point. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >> to >> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >> non-native >> material. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Steve, >> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >> not >> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >> >> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >> altimeter >> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >> own >> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >> >> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >> section >> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >> >> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >> much. >> But the sand will be gone. >> >> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> >>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >> know >>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>> intended. >>> >>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >> - >>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >> hold >>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>> velocity. >>> >>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >> fast >>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>> >>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>> >>> /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>> jettison >>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>> space >>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>> the >>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>> drag >>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>> idea. Thanks. >>> >>> Paul Bogdanich >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:09:15 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: , "Steve Cutonilli" > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Message-ID: <3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983 at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as television, > vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you should > lightly bless everyone. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of >> clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle >> size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. >> Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team >> couldn't tell it ever happened. >> >> I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around >> until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want >> it...... >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's an excellent point. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >>> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >>> to >>> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >>> non-native >>> material. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >>> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >>> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >>> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >>> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >>> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >>> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >>> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Steve, >>> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >>> not >>> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >>> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >>> >>> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >>> altimeter >>> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >>> own >>> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >>> >>> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >>> section >>> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >>> >>> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >>> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >>> much. >>> But the sand will be gone. >>> >>> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >>> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >>> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> >>>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >>> know >>>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>>> intended. >>>> >>>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >>> - >>>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >>> hold >>>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>>> velocity. >>>> >>>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >>> fast >>>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>>> >>>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>>> >>>> /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>>> >>>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>>> jettison >>>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>>> space >>>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>>> the >>>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>>> drag >>>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>>> idea. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Paul Bogdanich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:23:52 -0800 > From: "Scott Berfield" > To: "'Robert Krausert'" , > , "'Steve Cutonilli'" > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Message-ID: <000b01cabe6e$c78654f0$5692fed0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > And if you are flying at the Playa, don't mention the sand discharge to the > launch organizers :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:09 PM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Steve Cutonilli > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as television, > vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you should > > lightly bless everyone. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of >> clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle >> size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. >> Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team >> couldn't tell it ever happened. >> >> I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around >> until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want >> it...... >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's an excellent point. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >>> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >>> to >>> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >>> non-native >>> material. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >>> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >>> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >>> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >>> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >>> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >>> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >>> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Steve, >>> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >>> not >>> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >>> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >>> >>> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >>> altimeter >>> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >>> own >>> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >>> >>> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >>> section >>> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >>> >>> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >>> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >>> much. >>> But the sand will be gone. >>> >>> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >>> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >>> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> >>>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >>> know >>>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>>> intended. >>>> >>>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >>> - >>>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >>> hold >>>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>>> velocity. >>>> >>>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >>> fast >>>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>>> >>>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>>> >>>> /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>>> >>>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>>> jettison >>>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>>> space >>>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>>> the >>>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>>> drag >>>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>>> idea. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Paul Bogdanich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 21:01:58 -0800 > From: "Schurke, Peter" > To: > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C8 at CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > They had a checklist. Learned a few things about actually following it. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] > Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 5:42 PM > To: Schurke, Peter > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > > >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. > > Hint: NASA loves checklists, predefined procedures and actually following > them... ;-) > +McG+ > > >> Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of >> family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the >> trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the >> test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. >> Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an >> opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test >> flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. >> >> We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a >> different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and >> then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. >> >> As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for >> this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package >> installed, but inactive. >> >> Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a >> Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes >> trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" >> and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. >> >> Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of >> shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be >> made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested >> with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they >> risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would >> be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and >> separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), >> versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag >> separation, main out too early)? >> >> After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins >> altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers >> would keep things together during the flight. >> >> They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist >> of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on >> the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but >> that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) >> >> The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, >> but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were >> ready to launch their vehicle. >> >> Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost >> 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. >> >> The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as >> planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin >> coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three >> (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. >> >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of >> recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to >> "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. >> >> Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest >> thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the >> epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not >> properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would >> get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it >> landed. >> >> Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their >> mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and >> they have data to report to NASA. >> >> For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three >> weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the >> deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the >> final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do >> what it is designed to do. >> >> Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the >> scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had >> to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to >> Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks >> to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to >> my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and >> picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the >> vehicle. >> >> More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. >> >> Peter Schurke >> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor >> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy >> Ingraham High School >> 1819 N 135th St. >> Seattle, WA 98133 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 08:44:23 -0500 > From: "Always Ready Rocketry" > To: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanx for the kudos on the product and yes sanding seems to make a > difference.. The epoxy will wick into the sanded area and the material turns > darker. 99% of the time it would never make a difference but as we all know > we build for "what might happen" and not what normally happens! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Schurke, Peter [mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org] > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 8:05 PM > To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Thanks Randy, the stuff is impressively strong. > > As I mentioned the only damage stems from the fact that they didn't > agressively sand the inside of the avbay before epoxying the bulkhead stop > rings into place--so one of the stops sheared off its epoxy and the > bulkheads and sled unit pushed it into the avbay by a good couple inches at > some point during the flight. Agressive sanding of areas that will be > epoxied is standard best practice for those of us who know good building > technique, but unfortunately, the kids didn't always inquire about best > practice before charging forward. That's why we call it a "learning > experience". > > The kids did a tip-to-tip lamination of kevlar/CF twill material to > reinforce the fins, and now brag that the combination of kevlar and bluetube > makes the fincan "bulletproof". > > To all those of you who have been writing back to ask what happened with the > MAWD, I have a hunch I know what the problem was, but I want to wait until I > can go through the wiring diagram plan versus the actual wiring with the > student in charge of recovery systems to confirm it before I speak out of > turn. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Always Ready Rocketry > Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 2:03 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > > > > Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a > beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. > Love those things.. > > Any launch photos? > > Thanx! > > Randy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek > over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control > launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then > the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying > to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and > adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 > feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy > holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand > the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). > That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks > for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment > correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in > Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed > to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to > make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget > Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all > the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my > students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked > up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:13:45 -0800 > From: Christopher Guenther > To: Robert Krausert > Cc: members at oregonrocketry.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Count me in for Tillamook! Now I will just have to find a J570 for my > seeker. > > Chris Guenther > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Robert Krausert > wrote: > >> We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport >> manager has already approved the date. >> >> Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before >> requesting an FAA waiver. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:33:30 -0800 > From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com > To: members at oregonrocketry.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com, > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Now we just need Tillamook Research Days! > > -- Peter > > > > > "Robert Krausert" > gmail.com> To > Sent by: , > rockets-bounces at r > ocketsnw.com cc > > Subject > 03/06/2010 11:12 [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part > AM Two - April 18th > > > > > > > > > > > We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport > manager has already approved the date. > > Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before > requesting an FAA waiver. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:19:23 -0800 > From: Ken Tsai > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > Message-ID: > <7816cff1003081119i1bb334d7tb12af975b6a86685 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf > > There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the rail. Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower launcher. > > Cheers, > - Ken > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:37:14 EST > From: Mfreptiles at aol.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > Message-ID: <25837.79a5fc61.38c6abea at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. Rick Clapp got a great photo a > few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides > trailing in the exhaust plume. :) > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > k2tsai at gmail.com writes: > > Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf > > There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the rail. Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower launcher. > > Cheers, > - Ken > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:43:24 +0000 (UTC) > From: clappfamily at comcast.net > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > Message-ID: > <464904381.13168231268077404788.JavaMail.root at sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) > > > > > > Rick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mfreptiles @ aol .com > To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Fly-apart rail guides > > Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a > few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? > trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) > ? > Mike F. > ? > ? > In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? > k2tsai@ gmail .com writes: > > Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: > http :// www . apogeerockets .com/education/downloads/Newsletter243. pdf > > There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower ?launcher. > > Cheers, > - ?Ken > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets@ rocketsnw .com > http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets > ?? > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 > ************************************** > > -- ------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Greenberg Portland State Aerospace Society (http://psas.pdx.edu/) andrew at psas.pdx.edu P: 503.788.1343 C: 503.708.7711 ------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Mon Mar 8 17:18:24 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 01:18:24 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] SLI Control launch photos Message-ID: http://www.kodakgallery.com/gallery/creativeapps/slideShow/Main.jsp?token=444782156115:1522627207&sourceId=533754321803&cm_mmc=eMail-_-Share-_-Photos-_-Sharer EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From appusher at q.com Mon Mar 8 17:14:33 2010 From: appusher at q.com (appusher at q.com) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 17:14:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Pictures Message-ID: <24719377.1268097273776.JavaMail.jboss@upsc-ecom603.sac1.ofoto.com> If you can't see the pictures in this email, click here to see it in a web browser: http://www.kodakgallery.com/gallery/creativeapps/slideShow/Main.jsp?token=444782156115%3A1522627207 Bill's album 2010-03-08 Bill has shared photos with you. You are invited to view my photo album at the KODAK Gallery. Enjoy! - Bill View photos Reminder: You can save these photos after viewing them by creating a free Kodak Gallery account. * Offer valid through 3/9/10. Enter coupon code SHARENOW to receive 20% off orders with a subtotal of $20 or more after applicable discounts, not including sales tax or shipping fees. Offer excludes Premium 4 x 6? Prints, PhotoStamps, and Same-Day Pickup orders. No substitutions, transfer rights or cash equivalents will be given. We reserve the right to modify or discontinue promotions at any time. Discount only valid at www.kodakgallery.com. Questions? Visit http://www.kodakgallery.com/A/help.html. cKodak, 2010. All rights reserved. From LenBryan at shaw.ca Mon Mar 8 18:27:06 2010 From: LenBryan at shaw.ca (Len Bryan) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 18:27:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] SLI Control launch photos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7608AC2930EA4C4AB8A85DB4D15B942B@LORTO720> Very nice. It's always great to see something that is getting young people involved in our hobby or anything science/engineering oriented. We need an SLI or TARC event in Canada. Thanks for sharing and great job! Len Bryan -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: March-08-10 5:18 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] SLI Control launch photos http://www.kodakgallery.com/gallery/creativeapps/slideShow/Main.jsp?token=44 4782156115:1522627207&sourceId=533754321803&cm_mmc=eMail-_-Share-_-Photos-_- Sharer From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon Mar 8 18:52:33 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 18:52:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check In-Reply-To: <3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983@LaptopKrausert> References: <8cc6bd4004c8910e43849716552511d5.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> <3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <15b708ef1f890ff6c3677cd93448adb1.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> I have this mental image of people looking up into a clear blue sky trying to track rockets and...suddenly, into every eye falls one grain of sand. Maybe I should go measure the size of the grains in that bucket of white sand I have. (Like 'dog barf', one bag of sand lasts a rocketeer a lifetime!) The math is simple from there. +McG+ > Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as > television, > vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you > should > lightly bless everyone. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of >> clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle >> size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa >> dirt. >> Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team >> couldn't tell it ever happened. >> >> I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around >> until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want >> it...... >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's an excellent point. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >>> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >>> to >>> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >>> non-native >>> material. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >>> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >>> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >>> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with >>> APCP >>> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >>> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >>> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >>> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Steve, >>> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >>> not >>> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >>> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >>> >>> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >>> altimeter >>> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >>> own >>> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains >>> the >>> >>> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >>> section >>> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >>> >>> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >>> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >>> much. >>> But the sand will be gone. >>> >>> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >>> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >>> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> >>>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >>> know >>>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>>> intended. >>>> >>>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >>> - >>>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >>> hold >>>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>>> velocity. >>>> >>>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >>> fast >>>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>>> >>>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>>> >>>> /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>>> >>>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>>> jettison >>>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>>> space >>>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>>> the >>>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>>> drag >>>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>>> idea. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Paul Bogdanich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 19:17:21 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:17:21 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <115D29B20AA446ED8A91C10C6FB2131D@LaptopKrausert> Sorry Chris. I gave my last J570 to Randy for April 18th. Plenty of J350's in the bin. Hi hi. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Guenther To: Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th Count me in for Tillamook! Now I will just have to find a J570 for my seeker. Chris Guenther On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Robert Krausert wrote: We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport manager has already approved the date. Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before requesting an FAA waiver. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon Mar 8 19:56:40 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <136930.33047.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <136930.33047.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <38791b87d2826b2f3c4ee3b07a27c671.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. Nitromethane actually comes closer: nitromethane: CH3NO2 Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky white" strongly suggests so. Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with enough oxygen built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a detonable material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full oxidation.) This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with might not be mere rocket fuel! That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, breaking down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as a monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety Code. +McG+ > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique > ? > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name "Turbonique." The > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the '60s > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a consumer > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a mail-order speed > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane automotive > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the company "The > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says > > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder of awe > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target market. Even > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products represented > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that enigmatic > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon coyotes? > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust engines." All > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one rung up the > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? Thermolene > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: > > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and burn without > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a semi-monopropellant. It > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but only a small > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or kerosene. Most > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of air to > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front and compress > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into this hot > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive the > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical air-breathing > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive the > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and simply > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with a > high-pressure storage bottle containing > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid fuel that > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine into the > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the combustion > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug connected to an > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot gases to > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented flames > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for > "spectacular flaming night runs." > ? > ? > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a quiet > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at Bangshift. > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy Rocket > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought there was > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed anyone > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed in a > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the case. > ? > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system and > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races associated > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a Rocket > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable quadruple > Buick-engined dragster. > > But that's not all! > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a quick-change > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb and dumping > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny rocket powered > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility thanks to > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: > > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power [in > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best slicks > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but mediocre > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, it all > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact company > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, but > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and prison terms > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place without them. > > > newVideoPlayer( > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"flashData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtube"} > ); > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From tomjerry1 at dishmail.net Mon Mar 8 20:04:08 2010 From: tomjerry1 at dishmail.net (Roy Jenkins) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 20:04:08 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check References: <8cc6bd4004c8910e43849716552511d5.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com><3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983@LaptopKrausert> <15b708ef1f890ff6c3677cd93448adb1.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <95354DB462E14258AC2AEADDAB65F5FD@roy4700> WHAT get sand in your eyes at Black Rock how awful ----- Original Message ----- From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com To: Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check I have this mental image of people looking up into a clear blue sky trying to track rockets and...suddenly, into every eye falls one grain of sand. Maybe I should go measure the size of the grains in that bucket of white sand I have. (Like 'dog barf', one bag of sand lasts a rocketeer a lifetime!) The math is simple from there. +McG+ > Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as > television, > vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you > should > lightly bless everyone. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of >> clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle >> size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa >> dirt. >> Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team >> couldn't tell it ever happened. >> >> I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around >> until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want >> it...... >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's an excellent point. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >>> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >>> to >>> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >>> non-native >>> material. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >>> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >>> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >>> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with >>> APCP >>> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >>> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >>> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >>> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Steve, >>> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >>> not >>> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >>> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >>> >>> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >>> altimeter >>> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >>> own >>> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains >>> the >>> >>> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >>> section >>> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >>> >>> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >>> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >>> much. >>> But the sand will be gone. >>> >>> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >>> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >>> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> >>>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >>> know >>>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>>> intended. >>>> >>>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >>> - >>>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >>> hold >>>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>>> velocity. >>>> >>>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >>> fast >>>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>>> >>>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>>> >>>> /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>>> >>>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>>> jettison >>>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>>> space >>>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>>> the >>>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>>> drag >>>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>>> idea. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Paul Bogdanich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Mon Mar 8 20:02:23 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 04:02:23 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] SLI Control launch photos In-Reply-To: <7608AC2930EA4C4AB8A85DB4D15B942B@LORTO720> References: , <7608AC2930EA4C4AB8A85DB4D15B942B@LORTO720> Message-ID: Sorry about the multiple posts with the photos. The kodak site is where you can get the high res versions. I'm still learning how to put photos on the website. They can be found here as well.......just scroll down. www.pugetsoundpropulsion.com/gallery.htm Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: LenBryan at shaw.ca > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 18:27:06 -0800 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] SLI Control launch photos > > Very nice. It's always great to see something that is getting young people > involved in our hobby or anything science/engineering oriented. We need an > SLI or TARC event in Canada. > > Thanks for sharing and great job! > > Len Bryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: March-08-10 5:18 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] SLI Control launch photos > > > > > http://www.kodakgallery.com/gallery/creativeapps/slideShow/Main.jsp?token=44 > 4782156115:1522627207&sourceId=533754321803&cm_mmc=eMail-_-Share-_-Photos-_- > Sharer > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 20:18:00 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 20:18:00 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check References: <8cc6bd4004c8910e43849716552511d5.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com><3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983@LaptopKrausert> <15b708ef1f890ff6c3677cd93448adb1.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> <95354DB462E14258AC2AEADDAB65F5FD@roy4700> Message-ID: <3C6CEBD47902419CA7355A601852ED47@LaptopKrausert> At Brothers, sand? How deadly those dust devils, those wind gusts, etc. We were give eye lashes for a reason. No just having fun Ken. But I'm hard pressed to think that at 30K AGL the density of sand on the ground most be in the parts per million spectrum. I can't see it coming down in chunk. more like over a few square miles. The cool benefit. I'm not the clubs RSO. These decisions are JP's. I've only stated my opinion. And it's good to not have Robert in charge of that operation. ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Roy Jenkins To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ; Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check WHAT get sand in your eyes at Black Rock how awful ----- Original Message ----- From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com To: Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check I have this mental image of people looking up into a clear blue sky trying to track rockets and...suddenly, into every eye falls one grain of sand. Maybe I should go measure the size of the grains in that bucket of white sand I have. (Like 'dog barf', one bag of sand lasts a rocketeer a lifetime!) The math is simple from there. +McG+ > Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as > television, > vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you > should > lightly bless everyone. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of >> clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle >> size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa >> dirt. >> Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team >> couldn't tell it ever happened. >> >> I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around >> until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want >> it...... >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's an excellent point. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >>> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >>> to >>> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >>> non-native >>> material. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >>> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >>> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >>> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with >>> APCP >>> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >>> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >>> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >>> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Steve, >>> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >>> not >>> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >>> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >>> >>> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >>> altimeter >>> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >>> own >>> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains >>> the >>> >>> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >>> section >>> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >>> >>> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >>> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >>> much. >>> But the sand will be gone. >>> >>> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >>> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >>> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> >>>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >>> know >>>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>>> intended. >>>> >>>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >>> - >>>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >>> hold >>>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>>> velocity. >>>> >>>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >>> fast >>>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>>> >>>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>>> >>>> /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>>> >>>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>>> jettison >>>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>>> space >>>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>>> the >>>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>>> drag >>>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>>> idea. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Paul Bogdanich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From fred at azinger.com Mon Mar 8 21:24:10 2010 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 21:24:10 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] L1 certification at Tillamook 4/18 launch? In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59AC54B5@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <4B959AFF.2020909@psas.pdx.edu> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59AC54B5@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <00b501cabf48$c3b4b170$4b1e1450$@com> I am PLANNING to attend...but not 100% certain. I suggest you double check about a week before the launch... FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:53 PM To: Andrew Greenberg; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] L1 certification at Tillamook 4/18 launch? Our Prefect cannot attend. So you're now asking Fred Azinger, one of our TAPs. Good luck. Hope Fred can join us. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Greenberg Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:49 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] L1 certification at Tillamook 4/18 launch? Hi! A few of us from PSAS (http://psas.pdx.edu/) would like to get our L1 certs at the 4/18 Tillamook launch. Will there be TAP members at that launch to certify us? Assuming we launch and recover successfully, of course. :) Andrew rockets-request at rocketsnw.com wrote: > Send Rockets mailing list submissions to > rockets at rocketsnw.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockets-request at rocketsnw.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockets-owner at rocketsnw.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockets digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: machining help wanted for a rocket project (Robert Krausert) > 2. Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC (Robert Nech) > 3. Re: Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC (Robert Krausert) > 4. Blue Tube Rocksim Data (Always Ready Rocketry) > 5. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > (Always Ready Rocketry) > 6. WAC Spring Festivus & TIR Swan Falls First Launch > (Robert Krausert) > 7. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report (Schurke, Peter) > 8. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) > 9. Re: TRA code sanity check (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) > 10. Re: TRA code sanity check (Robert Krausert) > 11. Re: TRA code sanity check (Scott Berfield) > 12. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report (Schurke, Peter) > 13. Re: Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > (Always Ready Rocketry) > 14. Re: Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th (Christopher Guenther) > 15. Re: Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) > 16. Fly-apart rail guides (Ken Tsai) > 17. Re: Fly-apart rail guides (Mfreptiles at aol.com) > 18. Re: Fly-apart rail guides (clappfamily at comcast.net) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:04:50 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Vern Knowles" , "'NW Rocketry mailing > list'" > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project > Message-ID: <1D590E5D372545C79B0B3F0D5BC3DED5 at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hey Vern, > What a find! At least new for me. I'll certainly send them some business. > Looks like they also work with anadized materials. Very nice. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vern Knowles" > To: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:14 AM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project > > >> Hi Steve, >> >> Check out http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ >> >> You can download their free CAD software and design an aluminum part like >> you described very >> easily. The software gives you an instant price quote too. Then press >> "submit" and you are done. >> They do great work. Very high precision. It's all CNC controlled right >> from the CAD file that you >> submit. Their prices are also very reasonable and far below what my local >> machine shop quotes. >> >> Their specialty is aluminum front panels but I have also used them many >> times for making centering >> rings, bulkheads, and all sorts of other aluminum (and even G10/FR4) >> parts. I am a very satisfied >> customer. >> >> Vern Knowles >> www.vernk.com >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tarr >>> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 2:12 AM >>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] machining help wanted for a rocket project >>> >>> I'm looking for someone who can machine a few small parts for >>> a rocket >>> project. My first part is a roughly 3" aluminum disc, >>> perhaps .10" or >>> .12" thick, with some slots and sections cut out. Nothing too fancy, >>> but I need better precision than I can get with woodworking tools. >>> >>> If you're interested, let me know and I'll send a PDF of my drawing. >>> >>> -Steve Tarr >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 12:28:32 -0800 (PST) > From: Robert Nech > To: NW Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > Message-ID: <113987.7817.qm at web111404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSDFzKdYVU > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 13:29:45 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Robert Nech" , "NW Rocketry" > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Of the interview, the biggest thing I appreciated was his pure honesty. He > never tried to act special, over powering, or a know-it-all. He held an > interview using logic. His explanation of extra mass for one system versus > another. The escape process. All was done extremely well. While NBC would > have loved for him to come across as a risk-it-all nut job. They didn't get > that. He did a great interview, and kept private areospace in check. And > that's why the private sector will advance far further, faster, and at less > cost than those ran by the house & senate. > > My opinion folks. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Nech" > To: "NW Rocketry" > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 12:28 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Elon Musk's recent interview on CNBC > > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSDFzKdYVU >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 16:50:38 -0500 > From: "Always Ready Rocketry" > To: > Subject: [RocketsNW] Blue Tube Rocksim Data > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Good Morning! > > Well after much grunting and groaning, I've completed the .csv files to > integrate Blue Tube into Rocksim. The file is available for download on my > home page. Here is all you have to do: > > 1. Extract the zip file into the "DATAIMPORT" folder in your Rocksim > installation. > 2. Launch Rocksim. It will see that there is data there and will import it > into your application. > > The full suite of body tubes and tube couplers will be there for you to > choose from as much effort has been taken to get the calculated material > density and mass amounts to be within 1% of measured values. > > Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions! > > Enjoy! > > Sincerely, > > Randy > > Randall J. Ejma > TRA 9577 L3 > Always Ready Rocketry > www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com > rejma0415 at cox.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:03:31 -0500 > From: "Always Ready Rocketry" > To: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: <2647D1253326496BA8B2652BA75C97C7 at apcp.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a > beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. > Love those things.. > > Any launch photos? > > Thanx! > > Randy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek > over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control > launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then > the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying > to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and > adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 > feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy > holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand > the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). > That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks > for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment > correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in > Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed > to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to > make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget > Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all > the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my > students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked > up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 14:06:00 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: > Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Festivus & TIR Swan Falls First Launch > Message-ID: <61835C3E41B647A98460E03D20AC253B at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > WAC & TIR, > Please send me your formal announcement of the launch, with some details... And I can certain add the announcement to the NWR website. > > Good timing to help get the word out and promote your launches. > > Simple abstract is fine. Paragraph or two with the details. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:04:58 -0800 > From: "Schurke, Peter" > To: "Always Ready Rocketry" , > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C3 at CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks Randy, the stuff is impressively strong. > > As I mentioned the only damage stems from the fact that they didn't agressively sand the inside of the avbay before epoxying the bulkhead stop rings into place--so one of the stops sheared off its epoxy and the bulkheads and sled unit pushed it into the avbay by a good couple inches at some point during the flight. Agressive sanding of areas that will be epoxied is standard best practice for those of us who know good building technique, but unfortunately, the kids didn't always inquire about best practice before charging forward. That's why we call it a "learning experience". > > The kids did a tip-to-tip lamination of kevlar/CF twill material to reinforce the fins, and now brag that the combination of kevlar and bluetube makes the fincan "bulletproof". > > To all those of you who have been writing back to ask what happened with the MAWD, I have a hunch I know what the problem was, but I want to wait until I can go through the wiring diagram plan versus the actual wiring with the student in charge of recovery systems to confirm it before I speak out of turn. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Always Ready Rocketry > Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 2:03 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > > > > Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a > beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. > Love those things.. > > Any launch photos? > > Thanx! > > Randy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek > over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control > launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then > the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying > to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and > adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 > feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy > holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand > the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). > That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks > for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment > correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in > Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed > to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to > make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget > Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all > the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my > students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked > up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 17:42:15 -0800 (PST) > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: "Schurke, Peter" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > <073e791b135912032450cd19173ac592.squirrel at www.worldaccessnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. > > Hint: NASA loves checklists, predefined procedures and actually following > them... ;-) > +McG+ > > >> Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of >> family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the >> trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the >> test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. >> Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an >> opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test >> flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. >> >> We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a >> different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and >> then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. >> >> As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for >> this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package >> installed, but inactive. >> >> Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a >> Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes >> trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" >> and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. >> >> Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of >> shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be >> made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested >> with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they >> risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would >> be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and >> separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), >> versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag >> separation, main out too early)? >> >> After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins >> altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers >> would keep things together during the flight. >> >> They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist >> of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on >> the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but >> that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) >> >> The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, >> but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were >> ready to launch their vehicle. >> >> Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost >> 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. >> >> The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as >> planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin >> coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three >> (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. >> >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of >> recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to >> "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. >> >> Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest >> thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the >> epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not >> properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would >> get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it >> landed. >> >> Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their >> mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and >> they have data to report to NASA. >> >> For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three >> weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the >> deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the >> final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do >> what it is designed to do. >> >> Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the >> scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had >> to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to >> Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks >> to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to >> my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and >> picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the >> vehicle. >> >> More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. >> >> Peter Schurke >> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor >> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy >> Ingraham High School >> 1819 N 135th St. >> Seattle, WA 98133 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 18:07:04 -0800 (PST) > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Message-ID: > <8cc6bd4004c8910e43849716552511d5.squirrel at www.worldaccessnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of > clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle > size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. > Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team > couldn't tell it ever happened. > > I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around > until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want > it...... > +McG+ > > >> That's an excellent point. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >> to >> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >> non-native >> material. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> Steve, >> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >> not >> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >> >> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >> altimeter >> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >> own >> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >> >> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >> section >> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >> >> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >> much. >> But the sand will be gone. >> >> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >> >> >>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >> know >>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>> intended. >>> >>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >> - >>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >> hold >>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>> velocity. >>> >>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >> fast >>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>> >>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>> >>> /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>> jettison >>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>> space >>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>> the >>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>> drag >>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>> idea. Thanks. >>> >>> Paul Bogdanich >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:09:15 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: , "Steve Cutonilli" > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Message-ID: <3DF7AE90BE7244FF93368557E9954983 at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as television, > vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you should > lightly bless everyone. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of >> clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle >> size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. >> Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team >> couldn't tell it ever happened. >> >> I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around >> until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want >> it...... >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's an excellent point. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >>> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >>> to >>> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >>> non-native >>> material. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >>> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >>> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >>> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >>> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >>> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >>> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >>> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Steve, >>> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >>> not >>> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >>> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >>> >>> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >>> altimeter >>> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >>> own >>> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >>> >>> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >>> section >>> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >>> >>> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >>> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >>> much. >>> But the sand will be gone. >>> >>> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >>> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >>> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> >>>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >>> know >>>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>>> intended. >>>> >>>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >>> - >>>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >>> hold >>>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>>> velocity. >>>> >>>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >>> fast >>>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>>> >>>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>>> >>>> /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>>> >>>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>>> jettison >>>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>>> space >>>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>>> the >>>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>>> drag >>>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>>> idea. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Paul Bogdanich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:23:52 -0800 > From: "Scott Berfield" > To: "'Robert Krausert'" , > , "'Steve Cutonilli'" > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > Message-ID: <000b01cabe6e$c78654f0$5692fed0$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > And if you are flying at the Playa, don't mention the sand discharge to the > launch organizers :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:09 PM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Steve Cutonilli > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > Yes. Avoid getting the sand into places you don't want. Such as television, > vcr, hat, underware, bra, pantyhose, gas tank, etc. From 30K feet you should > > lightly bless everyone. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Steve Cutonilli" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check > > >> Dirt, er, dust, won't flow as well as dry sand. You can buy a bag of >> clean white sand at any Home Depot type store, cheap. Uniform particle >> size, free of contaminates, nice light color to blend into the playa dirt. >> Falling from miles up it will scatter so thinly even a tv show CSI team >> couldn't tell it ever happened. >> >> I've used sand as ballast in rockets. Make sure it can't move around >> until you want it to! And can't get into places where you don't want >> it...... >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's an excellent point. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:46 PM >>> To: 'Steve Cutonilli'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Of course, if you are flying on BLM land like the Playa, you will want >>> to >>> use local dirt from the Playa itself as you should not be dumping >>> non-native >>> material. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 5:38 PM >>> To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Ideas are very much appreciated and you are correct Robert about >>> gravity, but was thinking venturi effect if the tail-cone could be >>> radially ported in the right way - all porting would be potted with APCP >>> propellant serving as the painted-skin-pyro-plug exposing the vacuum >>> generator when needed on descent. The simpler method is dumping it all >>> at once at apogee. Thanks for agreeing that discharging sand at high >>> altitude SB a shrug w/ TRA. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:51 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> Steve, >>> My one thought was the decent free fall. Dumping via gravity alone will >>> not >>> work. The sand at equal free fall speed will stay put. Once deployed >>> recovery, the and might be inverted to allow dumping. >>> >>> What if you brought the dart section down as two parts? When the >>> altimeter >>> reads 200 ft/sec/sec, separate. The lower section of the dart has its >>> own >>> chute, very small. The lower area of the upper dart section contains the >>> >>> sand. When they separate, the sand falls freely. Because the upper >>> section >>> is still moving vertical. Then at apogee, use the chute. >>> >>> My worry is getting the sand dumped completely. Doing it during slowing >>> vertical, example less than 200 ft/sec shouldn't effect altitude by >>> much. >>> But the sand will be gone. >>> >>> Of course this means tracking a booster, plus upper and lower sustainer >>> (dart). That way, I feel you'll get the "ballast" out for certain. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Cutonilli" >>> To: "'Paul Bogdanich'" ; >>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>> >>> >>>> Paul thanks - purely off the cuff on my part and I hesitated (don't >>> know >>>> why) to use the word ballast, but you described it exactly as it is >>>> intended. >>>> >>>> Ballistic descent to 30K as described initially would result in splat >>> - >>>> not enough time for a controlled ballast discharge. I agree with the >>>> poof dump the mass at apogee suggestion for the very benefit that it >>>> terminates the trajectory sharply should off-axis or g-effect take >>> hold >>>> on accent - thinking moderate-slow thrust that optimizes terminal >>>> velocity. >>>> >>>> But, this begs the question - is it peak acceleration that becomes key >>>> to imparting optimum inertia to the dart? Then it would have to be >>> fast >>>> blue - it shouldn't be difficult to calculate / simulate / test. >>>> >>>> How does 98mm to 38mm sound? I want to approach this in scalable form >>>> such as 76mm to 29mm first. >>>> >>>> /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:12 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA code sanity check >>>> >>>> Interesting idea. Obtain optimal coast mass by using ballast then >>>> jettison >>>> the ballast to make the recovery systems do less work thereby saving >>>> space >>>> because the ballast has a much higher density than the recovery >>>> gear. That's an excellent idea. Just put the ballast in the drogue >>>> compartment and, poof, gone. Theoretically this would reduce size of >>>> the >>>> parachutes required thus the length of the rocket thereby reducing the >>>> drag >>>> which, ceteris paribus, increases the altitude. I really like that >>>> idea. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Paul Bogdanich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 21:01:58 -0800 > From: "Schurke, Peter" > To: > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004C8 at CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > They had a checklist. Learned a few things about actually following it. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] > Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 5:42 PM > To: Schurke, Peter > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > > >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. > > Hint: NASA loves checklists, predefined procedures and actually following > them... ;-) > +McG+ > > >> Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of >> family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the >> trek over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the >> test/control launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. >> Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an >> opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test >> flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. >> >> We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a >> different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and >> then the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. >> >> As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for >> this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package >> installed, but inactive. >> >> Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a >> Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes >> trying to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" >> and adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. >> >> Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of >> shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be >> made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested >> with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they >> risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would >> be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and >> separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), >> versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag >> separation, main out too early)? >> >> After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins >> altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers >> would keep things together during the flight. >> >> They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist >> of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on >> the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but >> that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) >> >> The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, >> but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were >> ready to launch their vehicle. >> >> Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost >> 700 feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. >> >> The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as >> planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin >> coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three >> (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. >> >> The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that >> was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had >> inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the >> method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of >> recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to >> "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. >> >> Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest >> thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the >> epoxy holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not >> properly sand the parts before epoxying them together so that they would >> get a good hold). That and the airframe got a little muddy when it >> landed. >> >> Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their >> mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and >> they have data to report to NASA. >> >> For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three >> weeks for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the >> deployment correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the >> final launch in Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do >> what it is designed to do. >> >> Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the >> scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had >> to make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to >> Puget Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks >> to all the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to >> my students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and >> picked up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the >> vehicle. >> >> More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. >> >> Peter Schurke >> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor >> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy >> Ingraham High School >> 1819 N 135th St. >> Seattle, WA 98133 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 08:44:23 -0500 > From: "Always Ready Rocketry" > To: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanx for the kudos on the product and yes sanding seems to make a > difference.. The epoxy will wick into the sanded area and the material turns > darker. 99% of the time it would never make a difference but as we all know > we build for "what might happen" and not what normally happens! :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Schurke, Peter [mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org] > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 8:05 PM > To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Thanks Randy, the stuff is impressively strong. > > As I mentioned the only damage stems from the fact that they didn't > agressively sand the inside of the avbay before epoxying the bulkhead stop > rings into place--so one of the stops sheared off its epoxy and the > bulkheads and sled unit pushed it into the avbay by a good couple inches at > some point during the flight. Agressive sanding of areas that will be > epoxied is standard best practice for those of us who know good building > technique, but unfortunately, the kids didn't always inquire about best > practice before charging forward. That's why we call it a "learning > experience". > > The kids did a tip-to-tip lamination of kevlar/CF twill material to > reinforce the fins, and now brag that the combination of kevlar and bluetube > makes the fincan "bulletproof". > > To all those of you who have been writing back to ask what happened with the > MAWD, I have a hunch I know what the problem was, but I want to wait until I > can go through the wiring diagram plan versus the actual wiring with the > student in charge of recovery systems to confirm it before I speak out of > turn. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Always Ready Rocketry > Sent: Sun 3/7/2010 2:03 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > > > > Nice write up Peter.. Good to see that Blue Tube can continue to take a > beating and be ok. Surprised you had issues w/ the MAWD. That's unusual. > Love those things.. > > Any launch photos? > > Thanx! > > Randy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:15 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Report > > Saturday morning at 0600 we piled almost a dozen teenagers and a passel of > family and friends into a veritable caravan of vehicles and started the trek > over the mountains to the hallowed grounds of Mansfield for the test/control > launch of my students' Student Launch Inititative project. > Our project mentor, WAC Secretary Carl Hamilton, was able to arrange an > opening of the club's waiver for us for a one-off launch to get the test > flight in before our Flight Readiness Review in two weeks. > > We arrived about an hour later than planned (one vehicle decided to take a > different route and found the "slow" way.), held a safety briefing and then > the kids got to work prepping their vehicle. > > As they were using this test flight as a control experiment, the plan for > this launch was to fly with their Gyroscopic Stabilization package > installed, but inactive. > > Immediately, a major problem cropped up: The backup altimeter--a > Perfectflite MAWD--would not power up. The students spent 30 minutes trying > to diagnose the problem, and finally had to declare the MAWD "Dead" and > adjust the flight plan to proceed without it. > > Problem two cropped up when the students could not find their package of > shear pins. Carl had a package in his range box, but they appeared to be > made of a different material than the ones the students had ground tested > with. This led to another moment of decision-making crisis: Could they > risk using untested shear pins with no backup ejection charge? What would > be the consequences of failure if the charge did not shear the pins and > separate the airframe (ballistic re-entry and likely vehicle destruction), > versus the potential consequences of not using shear pins at all (drag > separation, main out too early)? > > After 15 minutes of debate, the students decided to forego shear pins > altogether for this flight and trust that the fitment of their couplers > would keep things together during the flight. > > They finished their launch prep and proceeded to the pad. Their checklist > of procedures made things much smoother (actual time to get the rocket on > the rail and ready for flight was about half their ususal dawdling...but > that was then lost to a lot of time picture-taking....) > > The software for the telemetry system decided to start acting up a little, > but after a 5 minute countdown delay that was resolved and the kids were > ready to launch their vehicle. > > Ascent was gorgeous--laser beam straight. Apogee was 5978 feet--almost 700 > feet above predicted. Then things started to go a little sideways. > > The apogee charge separated the airframe and pushed out the drogue as > planned, but the nosecone also slipped off and allowed the main to begin > coming out as well. This is the point where mistake number three > (heretofore unknown to all of us) came out to bite them in the @$$. > > The harness for the drogue wrapped itself around the part of the main that > was sticking out of the airframe. The team that had packed the main had > inexplicably rolled the harness around the parachute instead of using the > method they had practiced in advance. the combination of the two sets of > recovery harness wrapped tightly around the main turned our recovery in to > "drogue with supplemental nylon wad" recovery. > > Luckily, the kids overbuilt the snot out of the airframe, so the closest > thing to damage suffered was some minor damage in the avionics bay the epoxy > holding one of the bulkhead stops sheared because they did not properly sand > the parts before epoxying them together so that they would get a good hold). > That and the airframe got a little muddy when it landed. > > Not a complete success, but not a total failure either. They have their > mandatory test flight in the books, they have some lessons to learn, and > they have data to report to NASA. > > For their own peace of mind, they intend to go back out there in three weeks > for the March WAC launch and re-fly so that they get all the deployment > correct. Once they have that done, they can proceed to the final launch in > Huntsville with a confidence that their vehicle will do what it is designed > to do. > > Thanks go out to Carl Hamilton for all his help getting the behind the > scenes stuff, including the waiver and all the 10,000 phone calls he had to > make to assure that this went off as smoothly as it did! Thanks to Puget > Sound Propulsion, who donated the motor for our test flight! Thanks to all > the members of the list who have unknowingly given great advice to my > students over the last few months as they have lurked on the list and picked > up on ideas and techniques that have found their way into the vehicle. > > More to come when they give it another try in three weeks. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences > Academy Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:13:45 -0800 > From: Christopher Guenther > To: Robert Krausert > Cc: members at oregonrocketry.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Count me in for Tillamook! Now I will just have to find a J570 for my > seeker. > > Chris Guenther > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Robert Krausert > wrote: > >> We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport >> manager has already approved the date. >> >> Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before >> requesting an FAA waiver. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:33:30 -0800 > From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com > To: members at oregonrocketry.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com, > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Now we just need Tillamook Research Days! > > -- Peter > > > > > "Robert Krausert" > gmail.com> To > Sent by: , > rockets-bounces at r > ocketsnw.com cc > > Subject > 03/06/2010 11:12 [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part > AM Two - April 18th > > > > > > > > > > > We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport > manager has already approved the date. > > Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before > requesting an FAA waiver. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:19:23 -0800 > From: Ken Tsai > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > Message-ID: > <7816cff1003081119i1bb334d7tb12af975b6a86685 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf > > There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the rail. Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower launcher. > > Cheers, > - Ken > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:37:14 EST > From: Mfreptiles at aol.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > Message-ID: <25837.79a5fc61.38c6abea at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. Rick Clapp got a great photo a > few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides > trailing in the exhaust plume. :) > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > k2tsai at gmail.com writes: > > Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf > > There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the rail. Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower launcher. > > Cheers, > - Ken > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:43:24 +0000 (UTC) > From: clappfamily at comcast.net > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > Message-ID: > <464904381.13168231268077404788.JavaMail.root at sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.com cast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > Was that one of your Pad Destroyers!? ;-) > > > > > > Rick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mfreptiles @ aol .com > To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:37:14 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Fly-apart rail guides > > Mine usually rip out of the rocket anyway. ?Rick Clapp got a great ?photo a > few years ago of my rocket just clearing the rail with two rail guides ? > trailing in the exhaust plume. ?:) > ? > Mike F. > ? > ? > In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:19:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ? > k2tsai@ gmail .com writes: > > Ran into ?this while surfing around over the ?weekend: > http :// www . apogeerockets .com/education/downloads/Newsletter243. pdf > > There's ?an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the ?rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish ?minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower ?launcher. > > Cheers, > - ?Ken > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets@ rocketsnw .com > http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets > ?? > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 > ************************************** > > -- ------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Greenberg Portland State Aerospace Society (http://psas.pdx.edu/) andrew at psas.pdx.edu P: 503.788.1343 C: 503.708.7711 ------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From vincesimoneau at msn.com Mon Mar 8 23:50:33 2010 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 23:50:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <38791b87d2826b2f3c4ee3b07a27c671.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> References: <136930.33047.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>, <38791b87d2826b2f3c4ee3b07a27c671.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" Vin EM AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: rnech at yahoo.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique > > n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 > Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. > Nitromethane actually comes closer: > nitromethane: CH3NO2 > > Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky white" > strongly suggests so. > > Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with enough oxygen > built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of > interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and > hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a detonable > material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full oxidation.) > This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with might > not be mere rocket fuel! > > That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, breaking > down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as a > monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. > > At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety Code. > +McG+ > > > > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique > > > > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name "Turbonique." The > > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the '60s > > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a consumer > > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. > > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a mail-order speed > > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane automotive > > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the company "The > > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says > > > > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder of awe > > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target market. Even > > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products represented > > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that enigmatic > > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon coyotes? > > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. > > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP > > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust engines." All > > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one rung up the > > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? Thermolene > > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: > > > > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and burn without > > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the > > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a semi-monopropellant. It > > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but only a small > > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or kerosene. Most > > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of air to > > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front and compress > > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into this hot > > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive the > > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical air-breathing > > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive the > > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and simply > > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with a > > high-pressure storage bottle containing > > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid fuel that > > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine into the > > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of > > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the combustion > > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug connected to an > > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot gases to > > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented flames > > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for > > "spectacular flaming night runs." > > > > > > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a quiet > > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at Bangshift. > > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy Rocket > > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought there was > > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed anyone > > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed in a > > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the case. > > > > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system and > > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races associated > > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a Rocket > > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable quadruple > > Buick-engined dragster. > > > > But that's not all! > > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a quick-change > > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb and dumping > > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny rocket powered > > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility thanks to > > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. > > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: > > > > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power [in > > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best slicks > > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. > > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but mediocre > > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. > > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, it all > > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact company > > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, but > > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and prison terms > > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. > > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place without them. > > > > > > newVideoPlayer( > > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"flashData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtube"} > > ); > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 08:43:43 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:43:43 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th In-Reply-To: <115D29B20AA446ED8A91C10C6FB2131D@LaptopKrausert> References: <8B8DF9F400B441D68EB8486D693AF257@LaptopKrausert> <115D29B20AA446ED8A91C10C6FB2131D@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: The Seeker can fly on J350's to about 3200 feet in her full setup. So, I could use those motors. I had to pull my Bible out that I made for her from Rocksim. And look at all the motors and their launch rail speeds to make sure. She will even go to about 3500 in her short setup. I had better get busy and modify her for dual deployment and finish my ebay. I would also need to borrow a 38/720 casing for those if I am not mistaken, as I only have a 38/1080 casing, 29/180, and 29/240. My motor casings can be borrowed if anyone needs them. Being in escrow right now on our first house is a real drag on my rocket fund! I can not wait until we close in April, so I can have a better picture of what I can and cannot spend as disposable income. The good side is I will have a room just for the storing and building of rockets. Chris Guenther On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Sorry Chris. I gave my last J570 to Randy for April 18th. Plenty of > J350's in the bin. Hi hi. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Christopher Guenther > *To:* Robert Krausert > *Cc:* rockets at rocketsnw.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org > *Sent:* Monday, March 08, 2010 9:13 AM > *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Tillamook Launch Part Two - April 18th > > Count me in for Tillamook! Now I will just have to find a J570 for my > seeker. > > Chris Guenther > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Robert Krausert < > lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote: > >> We're planning the next Tillamook Launch event for April 18th. Airport >> manager has already approved the date. >> >> Any one interested? Let me know. Want to sanity check the date before >> requesting an FAA waiver. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Tue Mar 9 08:45:42 2010 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:45:42 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique Message-ID: <17d60.25ce3f84.38c7d536@aol.com> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting with a metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety of suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't complete combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to oxidize Al or Si producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which means high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too much hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a double-base propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. -Robert In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" Vin EM AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: rnech at yahoo.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique > > n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 > Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. > Nitromethane actually comes closer: > nitromethane: CH3NO2 > > Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky white" > strongly suggests so. > > Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with enough oxygen > built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of > interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and > hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a detonable > material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full oxidation.) > This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with might > not be mere rocket fuel! > > That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, breaking > down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as a > monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. > > At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety Code. > +McG+ > > > > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique > > > > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name "Turbonique." The > > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the '60s > > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a consumer > > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. > > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a mail-order speed > > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane automotive > > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the company "The > > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says > > > > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder of awe > > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target market. Even > > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products represented > > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that enigmatic > > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon coyotes? > > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. > > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP > > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust engines." All > > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one rung up the > > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? Thermolene > > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: > > > > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and burn without > > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the > > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a semi-monopropellant. It > > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but only a small > > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or kerosene. Most > > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of air to > > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front and compress > > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into this hot > > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive the > > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical air-breathing > > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive the > > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and simply > > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with a > > high-pressure storage bottle containing > > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid fuel that > > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine into the > > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of > > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the combustion > > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug connected to an > > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot gases to > > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented flames > > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for > > "spectacular flaming night runs." > > > > > > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a quiet > > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at Bangshift. > > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy Rocket > > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought there was > > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed anyone > > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed in a > > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the case. > > > > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system and > > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races associated > > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a Rocket > > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable quadruple > > Buick-engined dragster. > > > > But that's not all! > > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a quick-change > > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb and dumping > > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny rocket powered > > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility thanks to > > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. > > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: > > > > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power [in > > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best slicks > > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. > > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but mediocre > > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. > > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, it all > > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact company > > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, but > > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and prison terms > > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. > > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place without them. > > > > > > newVideoPlayer( > > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub e"} > > ); > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 9 08:41:26 2010 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:41:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides In-Reply-To: <7816cff1003081602m472078c6g1dba0a0b76cc5b15@mail.gmail.com> References: <7816cff1003081119i1bb334d7tb12af975b6a86685@mail.gmail.com> <787198571.12556111268086911588.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <7816cff1003081602m472078c6g1dba0a0b76cc5b15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <164810.88819.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> At the low cost of a rail just buy your own rail to use at their launches. Then you can use what ever guides you want. John Hornsby ________________________________ From: Ken Tsai To: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 4:02:20 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides Interesting... How about using balsa/plywood as the actual guide, or even a rail button epoxied onto the "fly-apart" section? Doesn't have to be music wire, just something reasonably stiff to conform to the rail guide. Thanks for the heads-up on the Acme guides.? I've got a couple birds with them, so I'll have to figure some alternative for them when using club GSE.? Based on your comments, I'm assuming the plastic PML linear guides are also out. Cheers, - Ken On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 2:21 PM,? wrote: > Ken -- > > I read that article a little while ago.? It's an interesting idea, but there > is an issue:? Washington Aerospace does not allow metal rail guides at its > launches.? This includes Acme Railguides and I would assume the piano wire > that Tim recommends to construct his pop-off rail guides.? Our aluminum > rails don't do so well when a harder metal slides up them at high speeds. > Additionally,?WAC does not allow?railguides like?Acme's, regardless of their > material (including plastic), as they have an increased risk?of binding on > the rail, increasing the risk for?damage or injury.? Rail buttons only. > Probably have to stick to a tower for those minimum diameter birds. > > Regards, > > Bryan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Tsai" > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:19:23 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [RocketsNW] Fly-apart rail guides > > Ran into this while surfing around over the weekend: > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter243.pdf > > There's an article about rail guides that pop off the rocket after it > clears the rail. ?Makes for a nice in-between if you want to launch > smallish minimum diameter rockets or similar without resorting to a > tower launcher. > > Cheers, > ?- Ken > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Tue Mar 9 08:58:50 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:58:50 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... Message-ID: <006801cabfa9$cb72d840$625888c0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Since there has been a lot of discussion lately on Ingraham HS participating in the SLI this year, I thought I'd send out this link again that details all about what the Skyline HS SLI team did for the 2004-05 SLI. http://skylinesli.agrummer.com Not only did they do a great job on the rocket, but the website was pretty amazing too. They had a very successful flight in Huntsville on an CTI-L800. Their rocket is still in the Physics Lab at Skyline HS. That seems to encourage others to participate in TARC. If you dig through the website, you'll find many goodies. Details behind their experiment and the rocket, as well as great pics and videos. Don't miss the parachute "ground" test video! And on the main page the video of the trip to Hunstville. Of particular note is that the about 10' rocket was packed into a 3x2x1.5' box for transporting to Hunstville. Good luck Ingraham HS team, and have fun, Michael From clappfamily at comcast.net Tue Mar 9 10:02:36 2010 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:02:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... In-Reply-To: <006801cabfa9$cb72d840$625888c0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1131126669.15199571268157756323.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I think the guys or gals who did the video should get an award.? That was really well done and professional. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Dennis" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Cc: "Rebecca SHS Staff' 'Fowler" Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 8:58:50 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... Since there has been a lot of discussion lately on Ingraham HS participating in the SLI this year, I thought I'd send out this link again that details all about what the Skyline HS SLI team did for the 2004-05 SLI. ? http://skylinesli.agrummer.com ? Not only did they do a great job on the rocket, but the website was pretty amazing too. ?They had a very successful flight in Huntsville on an CTI-L800. ?Their rocket is still in the Physics Lab at Skyline HS. ?That seems to encourage others to participate in TARC. ? If you dig through the website, you'll find many goodies. ?Details behind their experiment and the rocket, as well as great pics and videos. ?Don't miss the parachute "ground" test video! ?And on the main page the video of the trip to Hunstville. ?Of particular note is that the about 10' rocket was packed into a 3x2x1.5' box for transporting to Hunstville. ? Good luck Ingraham HS team, and have fun, ? Michael _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Tue Mar 9 12:35:59 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:35:59 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Pictures In-Reply-To: <24719377.1268097273776.JavaMail.jboss@upsc-ecom603.sac1.ofoto.com> References: <24719377.1268097273776.JavaMail.jboss@upsc-ecom603.sac1.ofoto.com> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DDBE@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> I have now uploaded a videoclip of the ascent posted on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymTc55HApmc The rest of the video I captured was me vainly searching the sky for a rocket...it sucked, so I cut it out. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of appusher at q.com Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 5:15 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham H.S. SLI Project Test Flight Pictures If you can't see the pictures in this email, click here to see it in a web browser: http://www.kodakgallery.com/gallery/creativeapps/slideShow/Main.jsp?toke n=444782156115%3A1522627207 Bill's album 2010-03-08 Bill has shared photos with you. You are invited to view my photo album at the KODAK Gallery. Enjoy! - Bill View photos Reminder: You can save these photos after viewing them by creating a free Kodak Gallery account. * Offer valid through 3/9/10. Enter coupon code SHARENOW to receive 20% off orders with a subtotal of $20 or more after applicable discounts, not including sales tax or shipping fees. Offer excludes Premium 4 x 6" Prints, PhotoStamps, and Same-Day Pickup orders. No substitutions, transfer rights or cash equivalents will be given. We reserve the right to modify or discontinue promotions at any time. Discount only valid at www.kodakgallery.com. Questions? Visit http://www.kodakgallery.com/A/help.html. cKodak, 2010. All rights reserved. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Tue Mar 9 12:54:01 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:54:01 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... In-Reply-To: <1131126669.15199571268157756323.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <006801cabfa9$cb72d840$625888c0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> <1131126669.15199571268157756323.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <009801cabfca$adf7aef0$09e70cd0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> I certainly agree Rick! Also, I?ve received a few private emails on where the data is on the experiment and the rocket. That can all be found in the various docs on the Documents page: http://agrummer.com/skylinesli/documents.htm In particular this one: http://agrummer.com/skylinesli/documents/FRR_final.htm which has a great deal of details. And of course the final powerpoint: http://agrummer.com/skylinesli/documents/FRR%20Powerpoint_files/frame.htm From: clappfamily at comcast.net [mailto:clappfamily at comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM To: Michael Dennis Cc: Rebecca SHS Staff' 'Fowler; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... I think the guys or gals who did the video should get an award. That was really well done and professional. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Dennis" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Cc: "Rebecca SHS Staff' 'Fowler" Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 8:58:50 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... Since there has been a lot of discussion lately on Ingraham HS participating in the SLI this year, I thought I'd send out this link again that details all about what the Skyline HS SLI team did for the 2004-05 SLI. http://skylinesli.agrummer.com Not only did they do a great job on the rocket, but the website was pretty amazing too. They had a very successful flight in Huntsville on an CTI-L800. Their rocket is still in the Physics Lab at Skyline HS. That seems to encourage others to participate in TARC. If you dig through the website, you'll find many goodies. Details behind their experiment and the rocket, as well as great pics and videos. Don't miss the parachute "ground" test video! And on the main page the video of the trip to Hunstville. Of particular note is that the about 10' rocket was packed into a 3x2x1.5' box for transporting to Hunstville. Good luck Ingraham HS team, and have fun, Michael _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Tue Mar 9 12:55:46 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:55:46 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... In-Reply-To: <009801cabfca$adf7aef0$09e70cd0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> References: <006801cabfa9$cb72d840$625888c0$@Dennis42@comcast.net><1131126669.15199571268157756323.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <009801cabfca$adf7aef0$09e70cd0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DDBF@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Outstanding work! I'm going to have my students take a look at it after they finish their FRR (They've got too much to do right now...) Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dennis Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:54 PM To: clappfamily at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Cc: 'Rebecca SHS Staff' 'Fowler' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... I certainly agree Rick! Also, I've received a few private emails on where the data is on the experiment and the rocket. That can all be found in the various docs on the Documents page: http://agrummer.com/skylinesli/documents.htm In particular this one: http://agrummer.com/skylinesli/documents/FRR_final.htm which has a great deal of details. And of course the final powerpoint: http://agrummer.com/skylinesli/documents/FRR%20Powerpoint_files/frame.ht m From: clappfamily at comcast.net [mailto:clappfamily at comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM To: Michael Dennis Cc: Rebecca SHS Staff' 'Fowler; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... I think the guys or gals who did the video should get an award. That was really well done and professional. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Dennis" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Cc: "Rebecca SHS Staff' 'Fowler" Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 8:58:50 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... Since there has been a lot of discussion lately on Ingraham HS participating in the SLI this year, I thought I'd send out this link again that details all about what the Skyline HS SLI team did for the 2004-05 SLI. http://skylinesli.agrummer.com Not only did they do a great job on the rocket, but the website was pretty amazing too. They had a very successful flight in Huntsville on an CTI-L800. Their rocket is still in the Physics Lab at Skyline HS. That seems to encourage others to participate in TARC. If you dig through the website, you'll find many goodies. Details behind their experiment and the rocket, as well as great pics and videos. Don't miss the parachute "ground" test video! And on the main page the video of the trip to Hunstville. Of particular note is that the about 10' rocket was packed into a 3x2x1.5' box for transporting to Hunstville. Good luck Ingraham HS team, and have fun, Michael _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Mar 9 16:52:18 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:52:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <17d60.25ce3f84.38c7d536@aol.com> References: <17d60.25ce3f84.38c7d536@aol.com> Message-ID: <4833bd2f7c65658e3e33afe71a19a3e3.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> >...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough oxygen to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running thermodynamic sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure exactly what the result would be. It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a PROPEP type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. +McG+ > I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have > Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting with > a > metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety of > suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't > complete > combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to oxidize Al > or Si > producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as > hydrogen gas. > That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which means > high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too much > hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. > Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a double-base > propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. > -Robert > > In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: > > > A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" > > Vin > > > > EM > AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > >> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 >> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> To: rnech at yahoo.com >> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of > Turbonique >> >> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 >> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. >> Nitromethane actually comes closer: >> nitromethane: CH3NO2 >> >> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky white" >> strongly suggests so. >> >> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with enough >> oxygen >> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of >> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and >> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a detonable >> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full oxidation.) >> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with >> might >> not be mere rocket fuel! >> >> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, >> breaking >> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as a >> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. >> >> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety >> Code. >> +McG+ >> >> >> > > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique >> > >> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name "Turbonique." >> The >> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the '60s >> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a >> consumer >> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. >> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a mail-order > speed >> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane automotive >> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the company >> "The >> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says >> > >> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder of > awe >> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target market. > Even >> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products > represented >> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that > enigmatic >> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon coyotes? >> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. >> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP >> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust engines." > All >> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one rung >> up > the >> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? Thermolene >> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: >> > >> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and burn > without >> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the >> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a semi-monopropellant. It >> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but only a > small >> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or kerosene. > Most >> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of air > to >> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front and > compress >> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into this > hot >> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive the >> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical > air-breathing >> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive the >> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and simply >> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with a >> > high-pressure storage bottle containing >> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid fuel > that >> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine into the >> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of >> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the > combustion >> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug connected to > an >> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot >> gases > to >> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented > flames >> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for >> > "spectacular flaming night runs." >> > >> > >> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a >> quiet >> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at > Bangshift. >> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy > Rocket >> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought there > was >> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed anyone >> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed in a >> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the case. >> > >> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system and >> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races > associated >> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a >> Rocket >> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable quadruple >> > Buick-engined dragster. >> > >> > But that's not all! >> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a >> quick-change >> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb and > dumping >> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny rocket > powered >> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility thanks > to >> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. >> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: >> > >> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power [in >> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best > slicks >> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. >> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but >> mediocre >> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. >> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, it >> all >> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact company >> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, but >> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and prison >> terms >> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. >> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place without > them. >> > >> > >> > newVideoPlayer( >> > > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub > e"} >> > ); >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Tue Mar 9 22:35:27 2010 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:35:27 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique Message-ID: <427a4.26b93e97.38c897af@aol.com> That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. Propep is available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al and 10% hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) yields fully oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 range (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called Guipep and a nice explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka does explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've never tried to do it. -Robert In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough oxygen to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running thermodynamic sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure exactly what the result would be. It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a PROPEP type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. +McG+ > I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have > Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting with > a > metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety of > suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't > complete > combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to oxidize Al > or Si > producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as > hydrogen gas. > That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which means > high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too much > hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. > Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a double-base > propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. > -Robert > > In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: > > > A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" > > Vin > > > > EM > AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > >> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 >> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> To: rnech at yahoo.com >> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of > Turbonique >> >> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 >> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. >> Nitromethane actually comes closer: >> nitromethane: CH3NO2 >> >> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky white" >> strongly suggests so. >> >> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with enough >> oxygen >> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of >> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and >> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a detonable >> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full oxidation.) >> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with >> might >> not be mere rocket fuel! >> >> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, >> breaking >> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as a >> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. >> >> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety >> Code. >> +McG+ >> >> >> > > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique >> > >> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name "Turbonique." >> The >> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the '60s >> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a >> consumer >> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. >> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a mail-order > speed >> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane automotive >> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the company >> "The >> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says >> > >> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder of > awe >> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target market. > Even >> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products > represented >> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that > enigmatic >> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon coyotes? >> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. >> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP >> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust engines." > All >> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one rung >> up > the >> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? Thermolene >> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: >> > >> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and burn > without >> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the >> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a semi-monopropellant. It >> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but only a > small >> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or kerosene. > Most >> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of air > to >> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front and > compress >> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into this > hot >> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive the >> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical > air-breathing >> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive the >> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and simply >> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with a >> > high-pressure storage bottle containing >> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid fuel > that >> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine into the >> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of >> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the > combustion >> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug connected to > an >> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot >> gases > to >> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented > flames >> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for >> > "spectacular flaming night runs." >> > >> > >> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a >> quiet >> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at > Bangshift. >> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy > Rocket >> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought there > was >> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed anyone >> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed in a >> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the case. >> > >> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system and >> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races > associated >> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a >> Rocket >> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable quadruple >> > Buick-engined dragster. >> > >> > But that's not all! >> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a >> quick-change >> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb and > dumping >> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny rocket > powered >> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility thanks > to >> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. >> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: >> > >> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power [in >> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best > slicks >> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. >> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but >> mediocre >> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. >> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, it >> all >> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact company >> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, but >> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and prison >> terms >> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. >> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place without > them. >> > >> > >> > newVideoPlayer( >> > > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub > e"} >> > ); >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Tue Mar 9 22:57:21 2010 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:57:21 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] GDL Propep Message-ID: <4d8e3.28f604ce.38c89cd1@aol.com> Propellant Evaluation Program (PropEP) download at _www.chemroc.com_ (http://www.chemroc.com) Explanatory text and alternate GUI at _www.Nakka-rocketry.net_ (http://www.Nakka-rocketry.net) -Robert From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Mar 9 23:24:20 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 23:24:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <427a4.26b93e97.38c897af@aol.com> References: <427a4.26b93e97.38c897af@aol.com> Message-ID: <7af0e60bab3e69fdcb3188342b8ac9c4.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer in the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful for some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am mostly interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a newer version friendly to XP. Probably should. But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is essentially zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( +McG+ > That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. Propep is > available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or > di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al and > 10% > hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) yields > fully > oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 range > (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called Guipep and > a nice > explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka does > explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've never > tried > to do it. > -Robert > > > In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > >>...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. > > I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough > oxygen > to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running > thermodynamic > sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure > exactly what the result would be. > > It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a PROPEP > type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. > +McG+ > > >> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have >> Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting > with >> a >> metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety of >> suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't >> complete >> combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to oxidize > Al >> or Si >> producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as >> hydrogen gas. >> That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which > means >> high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too much >> hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. >> Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a >> double-base >> propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. >> -Robert >> >> In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: >> >> >> A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" >> >> Vin >> >> >> >> EM >> AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 >>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>> To: rnech at yahoo.com >>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius >>> Of >> Turbonique >>> >>> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 >>> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. >>> Nitromethane actually comes closer: >>> nitromethane: CH3NO2 >>> >>> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky white" >>> strongly suggests so. >>> >>> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with enough >>> oxygen >>> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of >>> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and >>> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a detonable >>> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full >>> oxidation.) >>> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with >>> might >>> not be mere rocket fuel! >>> >>> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, >>> breaking >>> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as a >>> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. >>> >>> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety >>> Code. >>> +McG+ >>> >>> >>> > >> > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique >>> > >>> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name "Turbonique." >>> The >>> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the >>> '60s >>> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a >>> consumer >>> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. >>> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a mail-order >> speed >>> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane >>> automotive >>> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the company >>> "The >>> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says >>> > >>> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder >>> of >> awe >>> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target >>> market. >> Even >>> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products >> represented >>> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that >> enigmatic >>> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon coyotes? >>> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. >>> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP >>> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust >>> engines." >> All >>> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one >>> rung >>> up >> the >>> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? Thermolene >>> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: >>> > >>> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and burn >> without >>> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the >>> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a semi-monopropellant. >>> It >>> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but only >>> a >> small >>> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or >>> kerosene. >> Most >>> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of >>> air >> to >>> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front and >> compress >>> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into >>> this >> hot >>> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive the >>> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical >> air-breathing >>> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive the >>> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and >>> simply >>> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with a >>> > high-pressure storage bottle containing >>> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid >>> fuel >> that >>> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine into >>> the >>> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of >>> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the >> combustion >>> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug connected >>> to >> an >>> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot >>> gases >> to >>> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented >> flames >>> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for >>> > "spectacular flaming night runs." >>> > >>> > >>> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a >>> quiet >>> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at >> Bangshift. >>> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy >> Rocket >>> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought >>> there >> was >>> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed anyone >>> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed in >>> a >>> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the case. >>> > >>> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system >>> and >>> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races >> associated >>> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a >>> Rocket >>> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable >>> quadruple >>> > Buick-engined dragster. >>> > >>> > But that's not all! >>> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a >>> quick-change >>> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb and >> dumping >>> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny rocket >> powered >>> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility >>> thanks >> to >>> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. >>> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: >>> > >>> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power [in >>> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best >> slicks >>> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. >>> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but >>> mediocre >>> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. >>> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, it >>> all >>> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact company >>> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, > but >>> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and prison >>> terms >>> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. >>> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place >>> without >> them. >>> > >>> > >>> > newVideoPlayer( >>> > >> > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla >> > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub >> e"} >>> > ); >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Wed Mar 10 00:08:19 2010 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:08:19 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique Message-ID: <8e4.562e0b28.38c8ad73@aol.com> Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I guess I'm still impressed by the shear power of the program. I started college with a slide rule and left on DARPAnet. I have a hard time dealing with the concept that a simple program can do a million hours of manual computation in a few seconds. When I was an undergraduate, this program was only doable on a CRAY supercomputer. Through the 70's it was classified. In the 80's it was not something that could be done without a large mainframe. Now it is something for the PC. I love being able to simulate case after case with near perfect accuracy, but at the same time, I miss the suspense of watching a needle on graph paper, waiting to see if my guesstimate was close. In a message dated 3/9/2010 11:24:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer in the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful for some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am mostly interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a newer version friendly to XP. Probably should. But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is essentially zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( +McG+ > That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. Propep is > available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or > di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al and > 10% > hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) yields > fully > oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 range > (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called Guipep and > a nice > explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka does > explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've never > tried > to do it. > -Robert > > > In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > >>...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. > > I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough > oxygen > to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running > thermodynamic > sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure > exactly what the result would be. > > It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a PROPEP > type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. > +McG+ > > >> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have >> Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting > with >> a >> metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety of >> suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't >> complete >> combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to oxidize > Al >> or Si >> producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as >> hydrogen gas. >> That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which > means >> high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too much >> hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. >> Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a >> double-base >> propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. >> -Robert >> >> In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: >> >> >> A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" >> >> Vin >> >> >> >> EM >> AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 >>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>> To: rnech at yahoo.com >>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius >>> Of >> Turbonique >>> >>> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 >>> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. >>> Nitromethane actually comes closer: >>> nitromethane: CH3NO2 >>> >>> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky white" >>> strongly suggests so. >>> >>> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with enough >>> oxygen >>> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of >>> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and >>> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a detonable >>> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full >>> oxidation.) >>> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with >>> might >>> not be mere rocket fuel! >>> >>> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, >>> breaking >>> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as a >>> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. >>> >>> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety >>> Code. >>> +McG+ >>> >>> >>> > >> > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique >>> > >>> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name "Turbonique." >>> The >>> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the >>> '60s >>> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a >>> consumer >>> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. >>> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a mail-order >> speed >>> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane >>> automotive >>> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the company >>> "The >>> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says >>> > >>> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder >>> of >> awe >>> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target >>> market. >> Even >>> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products >> represented >>> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that >> enigmatic >>> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon coyotes? >>> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. >>> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP >>> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust >>> engines." >> All >>> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one >>> rung >>> up >> the >>> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? Thermolene >>> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: >>> > >>> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and burn >> without >>> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the >>> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a semi-monopropellant. >>> It >>> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but only >>> a >> small >>> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or >>> kerosene. >> Most >>> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of >>> air >> to >>> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front and >> compress >>> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into >>> this >> hot >>> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive the >>> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical >> air-breathing >>> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive the >>> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and >>> simply >>> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with a >>> > high-pressure storage bottle containing >>> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid >>> fuel >> that >>> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine into >>> the >>> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of >>> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the >> combustion >>> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug connected >>> to >> an >>> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot >>> gases >> to >>> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented >> flames >>> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for >>> > "spectacular flaming night runs." >>> > >>> > >>> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a >>> quiet >>> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at >> Bangshift. >>> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy >> Rocket >>> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought >>> there >> was >>> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed anyone >>> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed in >>> a >>> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the case. >>> > >>> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system >>> and >>> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races >> associated >>> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a >>> Rocket >>> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable >>> quadruple >>> > Buick-engined dragster. >>> > >>> > But that's not all! >>> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a >>> quick-change >>> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb and >> dumping >>> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny rocket >> powered >>> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility >>> thanks >> to >>> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. >>> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: >>> > >>> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power [in >>> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best >> slicks >>> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. >>> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but >>> mediocre >>> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. >>> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, it >>> all >>> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact company >>> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, > but >>> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and prison >>> terms >>> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. >>> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place >>> without >> them. >>> > >>> > >>> > newVideoPlayer( >>> > >> > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla >> > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub >> e"} >>> > ); >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > From k2tsai at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 17:47:57 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:47:57 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] L2 flight attempt at Mansfield during March launch Message-ID: <7816cff1003101747j6b8d9605g72471c97d0a42bab@mail.gmail.com> Folks, I'm tentatively planning to attempt a NAR L2 flight in March, and I was wondering who here is planning on going that would be willing to be a witness for the flight? Right now, I've got one J-capable rocket ready to fly, but it's basically a dart, and whether or not it can fly may be dependant on the weather and if I've got the tracking system sufficiently dialed in ahead of the launch. I'm in the midst of building a backup rocket which would be more "weather resistant," but I'm not 100% sure I'll have it completed in time. Even so, I figured I'd send out the query now, because I'd rather have everything lined up ahead of time instead of scrambling at the last minute. Cheers, - Ken From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Wed Mar 10 18:47:41 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:47:41 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Deployment bag Message-ID: I'm looking for input on large level 3 chutes. Use a deployment bag or not? I have bags for some of my smaller chutes but I have never used them. It just never seemed necessary. I've never used a large chute so I'm asking for everyone's thoughts............Mark From greg at bigredbee.com Wed Mar 10 18:49:54 2010 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:49:54 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Deployment bag In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How big? On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Mark Dunkle wrote: > I'm looking for input on large level 3 chutes. Use a deployment bag or > not? I have bags for some of my smaller chutes but I have never used them. > It just never seemed necessary. I've never used a large chute so I'm asking > for everyone's thoughts............Mark > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Wed Mar 10 18:55:31 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:55:31 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Deployment bag In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1270B8E9E15147BFBFB443D1838BA848@Desktop> Say a skyangle cert 3 x-large or a rocketman 12 or 14 foot ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Clark To: Mark Dunkle Cc: rockets NW list ; oroc list Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Deployment bag How big? On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Mark Dunkle wrote: I'm looking for input on large level 3 chutes. Use a deployment bag or not? I have bags for some of my smaller chutes but I have never used them. It just never seemed necessary. I've never used a large chute so I'm asking for everyone's thoughts............Mark _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Wed Mar 10 19:50:43 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:50:43 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Deployment bag In-Reply-To: <1270B8E9E15147BFBFB443D1838BA848@Desktop> References: <1270B8E9E15147BFBFB443D1838BA848@Desktop> Message-ID: <4B986893.2040403@hawkfeather.com> FWIW, I flew a Skyangle Cert3 XL on my L3 without a bag. My half-burrito wrap with Nomex worked perfectly. http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/misc_gfx/chute_prep.jpg Andrew. Mark Dunkle wrote: > Say a skyangle cert 3 x-large or a rocketman 12 or 14 foot > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg Clark > To: Mark Dunkle > Cc: rockets NW list ; oroc list > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:49 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Deployment bag > > > How big? > > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Mark Dunkle wrote: > > I'm looking for input on large level 3 chutes. Use a deployment bag or not? I have bags for some of my smaller chutes but I have never used them. It just never seemed necessary. I've never used a large chute so I'm asking for everyone's thoughts............Mark > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Mar 10 23:26:34 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:26:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <8e4.562e0b28.38c8ad73@aol.com> References: <8e4.562e0b28.38c8ad73@aol.com> Message-ID: <01d8496f37829c29563e02dd6d7d6a75.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> > I started college with a slide rule and left > on DARPAnet. I started college with a slide rule and left with a slide rule and a limited-precision four-function calculator. The rich kids had early HP calculators... The first big purchase I made after getting a job was a TI SR-56 calculator. Slightly lower road than DARPAnet. ;-) +McG+ > Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I guess I'm still impressed by > the > shear power of the program. I started college with a slide rule and left > on DARPAnet. I have a hard time dealing with the concept that a simple > program can do a million hours of manual computation in a few seconds. > When I > was an undergraduate, this program was only doable on a CRAY > supercomputer. Through the 70's it was classified. In the 80's it was > not something > that could be done without a large mainframe. Now it is something for > the > PC. I love being able to simulate case after case with near perfect > accuracy, but at the same time, I miss the suspense of watching a needle > on graph > paper, waiting to see if my guesstimate was close. > > > In a message dated 3/9/2010 11:24:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer in > the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful > for > some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am mostly > interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a newer > version friendly to XP. Probably should. > > But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is essentially > zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( > +McG+ > > >> That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. Propep > is >> available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or >> di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al >> and >> 10% >> hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) >> yields >> fully >> oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 range >> (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called Guipep >> and >> a nice >> explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka does >> explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've never >> tried >> to do it. >> -Robert >> >> >> In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >> >>>...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. >> >> I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough >> oxygen >> to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running >> thermodynamic >> sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure >> exactly what the result would be. >> >> It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a >> PROPEP >> type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. >> +McG+ >> >> >>> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have >>> Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting >> with >>> a >>> metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety > of >>> suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't >>> complete >>> combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to > oxidize >> Al >>> or Si >>> producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as >>> hydrogen gas. >>> That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which >> means >>> high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too much >>> hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. >>> Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a >>> double-base >>> propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. >>> -Robert >>> >>> In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >>> vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: >>> >>> >>> A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" >>> >>> Vin >>> >>> >>> >>> EM >>> AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >>> Join me >>> >>>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 >>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>>> To: rnech at yahoo.com >>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled >>>> Genius >>>> Of >>> Turbonique >>>> >>>> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 >>>> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. >>>> Nitromethane actually comes closer: >>>> nitromethane: CH3NO2 >>>> >>>> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky >>>> white" >>>> strongly suggests so. >>>> >>>> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with >>>> enough >>>> oxygen >>>> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of >>>> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and >>>> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a >>>> detonable >>>> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full >>>> oxidation.) >>>> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with >>>> might >>>> not be mere rocket fuel! >>>> >>>> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, >>>> breaking >>>> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as a >>>> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. >>>> >>>> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety >>>> Code. >>>> +McG+ >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique >>>> > >>>> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name >>>> "Turbonique." >>>> The >>>> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the >>>> '60s >>>> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a >>>> consumer >>>> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. >>>> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a >>>> mail-order >>> speed >>>> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane >>>> automotive >>>> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the >>>> company >>>> "The >>>> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says >>>> > >>>> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder >>>> of >>> awe >>>> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target >>>> market. >>> Even >>>> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products >>> represented >>>> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that >>> enigmatic >>>> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon >>>> coyotes? >>>> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. >>>> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP >>>> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust >>>> engines." >>> All >>>> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one >>>> rung >>>> up >>> the >>>> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? >>>> Thermolene >>>> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: >>>> > >>>> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and >>>> burn >>> without >>>> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the >>>> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a >>>> semi-monopropellant. >>>> It >>>> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but >>>> only >>>> a >>> small >>>> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or >>>> kerosene. >>> Most >>>> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of >>>> air >>> to >>>> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front >>>> and >>> compress >>>> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into >>>> this >>> hot >>>> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive >>>> the >>>> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical >>> air-breathing >>>> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive >>>> the >>>> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and >>>> simply >>>> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with >>>> a >>>> > high-pressure storage bottle containing >>>> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid >>>> fuel >>> that >>>> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine >>>> into >>>> the >>>> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of >>>> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the >>> combustion >>>> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug >>>> connected >>>> to >>> an >>>> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot >>>> gases >>> to >>>> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented >>> flames >>>> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for >>>> > "spectacular flaming night runs." >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a >>>> quiet >>>> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at >>> Bangshift. >>>> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy >>> Rocket >>>> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought >>>> there >>> was >>>> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed > anyone >>>> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed >>>> in >>>> a >>>> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the >>>> case. >>>> > >>>> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system >>>> and >>>> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races >>> associated >>>> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a >>>> Rocket >>>> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable >>>> quadruple >>>> > Buick-engined dragster. >>>> > >>>> > But that's not all! >>>> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a >>>> quick-change >>>> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb >>>> and >>> dumping >>>> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny >>>> rocket >>> powered >>>> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility >>>> thanks >>> to >>>> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. >>>> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: >>>> > >>>> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power >>>> [in >>>> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best >>> slicks >>>> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. >>>> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but >>>> mediocre >>>> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. >>>> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, >>>> it >>>> all >>>> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact > company >>>> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, >> but >>>> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and >>>> prison >>>> terms >>>> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. >>>> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place >>>> without >>> them. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > newVideoPlayer( >>>> > >>> >> > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla >>> >> > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub >>> e"} >>>> > ); >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Rockets mailing list >>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> > > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Wed Mar 10 23:49:32 2010 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:49:32 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique Message-ID: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... In a message dated 3/10/2010 11:26:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > I started college with a slide rule and left > on DARPAnet. I started college with a slide rule and left with a slide rule and a limited-precision four-function calculator. The rich kids had early HP calculators... The first big purchase I made after getting a job was a TI SR-56 calculator. Slightly lower road than DARPAnet. ;-) +McG+ > Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I guess I'm still impressed by > the > shear power of the program. I started college with a slide rule and left > on DARPAnet. I have a hard time dealing with the concept that a simple > program can do a million hours of manual computation in a few seconds. > When I > was an undergraduate, this program was only doable on a CRAY > supercomputer. Through the 70's it was classified. In the 80's it was > not something > that could be done without a large mainframe. Now it is something for > the > PC. I love being able to simulate case after case with near perfect > accuracy, but at the same time, I miss the suspense of watching a needle > on graph > paper, waiting to see if my guesstimate was close. > > > In a message dated 3/9/2010 11:24:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer in > the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful > for > some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am mostly > interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a newer > version friendly to XP. Probably should. > > But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is essentially > zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( > +McG+ > > >> That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. Propep > is >> available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or >> di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al >> and >> 10% >> hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) >> yields >> fully >> oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 range >> (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called Guipep >> and >> a nice >> explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka does >> explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've never >> tried >> to do it. >> -Robert >> >> >> In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >> >>>...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. >> >> I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough >> oxygen >> to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running >> thermodynamic >> sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure >> exactly what the result would be. >> >> It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a >> PROPEP >> type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. >> +McG+ >> >> >>> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have >>> Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting >> with >>> a >>> metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety > of >>> suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't >>> complete >>> combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to > oxidize >> Al >>> or Si >>> producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as >>> hydrogen gas. >>> That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which >> means >>> high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too much >>> hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. >>> Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a >>> double-base >>> propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. >>> -Robert >>> >>> In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >>> vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: >>> >>> >>> A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" >>> >>> Vin >>> >>> >>> >>> EM >>> AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >>> Join me >>> >>>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 >>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>>> To: rnech at yahoo.com >>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled >>>> Genius >>>> Of >>> Turbonique >>>> >>>> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 >>>> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. >>>> Nitromethane actually comes closer: >>>> nitromethane: CH3NO2 >>>> >>>> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky >>>> white" >>>> strongly suggests so. >>>> >>>> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with >>>> enough >>>> oxygen >>>> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of >>>> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and >>>> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a >>>> detonable >>>> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full >>>> oxidation.) >>>> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with >>>> might >>>> not be mere rocket fuel! >>>> >>>> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, >>>> breaking >>>> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as a >>>> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. >>>> >>>> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety >>>> Code. >>>> +McG+ >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique >>>> > >>>> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name >>>> "Turbonique." >>>> The >>>> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of the >>>> '60s >>>> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a >>>> consumer >>>> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. >>>> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a >>>> mail-order >>> speed >>>> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane >>>> automotive >>>> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the >>>> company >>>> "The >>>> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says >>>> > >>>> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder >>>> of >>> awe >>>> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target >>>> market. >>> Even >>>> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products >>> represented >>>> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that >>> enigmatic >>>> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon >>>> coyotes? >>>> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. >>>> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP >>>> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust >>>> engines." >>> All >>>> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one >>>> rung >>>> up >>> the >>>> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? >>>> Thermolene >>>> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: >>>> > >>>> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and >>>> burn >>> without >>>> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, the >>>> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a >>>> semi-monopropellant. >>>> It >>>> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but >>>> only >>>> a >>> small >>>> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or >>>> kerosene. >>> Most >>>> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of >>>> air >>> to >>>> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front >>>> and >>> compress >>>> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into >>>> this >>> hot >>>> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive >>>> the >>>> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical >>> air-breathing >>>> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive >>>> the >>>> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and >>>> simply >>>> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with >>>> a >>>> > high-pressure storage bottle containing >>>> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white liquid >>>> fuel >>> that >>>> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine >>>> into >>>> the >>>> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of >>>> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the >>> combustion >>>> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug >>>> connected >>>> to >>> an >>>> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of hot >>>> gases >>> to >>>> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes prevented >>> flames >>>> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for >>>> > "spectacular flaming night runs." >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in a >>>> quiet >>>> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at >>> Bangshift. >>>> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the lustworthy >>> Rocket >>>> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought >>>> there >>> was >>>> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed > anyone >>>> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed >>>> in >>>> a >>>> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the >>>> case. >>>> > >>>> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system >>>> and >>>> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races >>> associated >>>> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a >>>> Rocket >>>> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable >>>> quadruple >>>> > Buick-engined dragster. >>>> > >>>> > But that's not all! >>>> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a >>>> quick-change >>>> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb >>>> and >>> dumping >>>> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny >>>> rocket >>> powered >>>> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility >>>> thanks >>> to >>>> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. >>>> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: >>>> > >>>> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power >>>> [in >>>> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best >>> slicks >>>> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. >>>> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but >>>> mediocre >>>> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. >>>> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, >>>> it >>>> all >>>> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact > company >>>> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, >> but >>>> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and >>>> prison >>>> terms >>>> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. >>>> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place >>>> without >>> them. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > newVideoPlayer( >>>> > >>> >> > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla >>> >> > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub >>> e"} >>>> > ); >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Rockets mailing list >>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Mar 11 00:14:40 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:14:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> References: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> Message-ID: > You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same > generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... I left in 1975. Never messed with a Wang(there was one in the office the first place I worked). Punch cards? Oh yeah, still have a stack of those somewhere containing a table of Legendre polynomials, carefully saved back then because they were so hard to calculate without programmable computing machines. (From a college project involving one of those seemingly simple problems--the electric field around a charged ring--that turn out to be miserably complex mathematically.) Now we routinely do more math with a few keystrokes than we could have in a whole year by hand and think nothing of it. Which is, fundamentally, the main reason amateurs can build rocket motors today so much more successfully than during the time of Sputnik. But I still like to go 'old school' sometimes. You can really amaze the young 'uns with a few low-tech tricks! :) +McG+ > In a message dated 3/10/2010 11:26:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > >> I started college with a slide rule and left >> on DARPAnet. > > I started college with a slide rule and left with a slide rule and a > limited-precision four-function calculator. The rich kids had early HP > calculators... The first big purchase I made after getting a job was a > TI > SR-56 calculator. Slightly lower road than DARPAnet. ;-) > +McG+ > > >> Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I guess I'm still impressed by >> the >> shear power of the program. I started college with a slide rule and > left >> on DARPAnet. I have a hard time dealing with the concept that a >> simple >> program can do a million hours of manual computation in a few seconds. >> When I >> was an undergraduate, this program was only doable on a CRAY >> supercomputer. Through the 70's it was classified. In the 80's it >> was >> not something >> that could be done without a large mainframe. Now it is something for >> the >> PC. I love being able to simulate case after case with near perfect >> accuracy, but at the same time, I miss the suspense of watching a >> needle >> on graph >> paper, waiting to see if my guesstimate was close. >> >> >> In a message dated 3/9/2010 11:24:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >> >> I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer > in >> the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful >> for >> some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am >> mostly >> interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a > newer >> version friendly to XP. Probably should. >> >> But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is >> essentially >> zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( >> +McG+ >> >> >>> That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. >>> Propep >> is >>> available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or >>> di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al >>> and >>> 10% >>> hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) >>> yields >>> fully >>> oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 >>> range >>> (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called >>> Guipep >>> and >>> a nice >>> explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka >>> does >>> explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've >>> never >>> tried >>> to do it. >>> -Robert >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >>> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >>> >>>>...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. >>> >>> I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough >>> oxygen >>> to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running >>> thermodynamic >>> sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be >>> sure >>> exactly what the result would be. >>> >>> It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a >>> PROPEP >>> type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. >>> +McG+ >>> >>> >>>> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't >>>> have >>>> Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if >>>> reacting >>> with >>>> a >>>> metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety >> of >>>> suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't >>>> complete >>>> combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to >> oxidize >>> Al >>>> or Si >>>> producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H >>>> as >>>> hydrogen gas. >>>> That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, >>>> which >>> means >>>> high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too > much >>>> hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. >>>> Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a >>>> double-base >>>> propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. >>>> -Robert >>>> >>>> In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >>>> vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: >>>> >>>> >>>> A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" >>>> >>>> Vin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> EM >>>> AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >>>> Join me >>>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 >>>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>>>> To: rnech at yahoo.com >>>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled >>>>> Genius >>>>> Of >>>> Turbonique >>>>> >>>>> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 >>>>> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. >>>>> Nitromethane actually comes closer: >>>>> nitromethane: CH3NO2 >>>>> >>>>> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky >>>>> white" >>>>> strongly suggests so. >>>>> >>>>> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with >>>>> enough >>>>> oxygen >>>>> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of >>>>> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon >>>>> and >>>>> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a >>>>> detonable >>>>> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full >>>>> oxidation.) >>>>> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing >>>>> with >>>>> might >>>>> not be mere rocket fuel! >>>>> >>>>> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, >>>>> breaking >>>>> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as > a >>>>> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. >>>>> >>>>> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the >>>>> Safety >>>>> Code. >>>>> +McG+ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>> >> > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique >>>>> > >>>>> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name >>>>> "Turbonique." >>>>> The >>>>> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of > the >>>>> '60s >>>>> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a >>>>> consumer >>>>> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. >>>>> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a >>>>> mail-order >>>> speed >>>>> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane >>>>> automotive >>>>> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the >>>>> company >>>>> "The >>>>> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says >>>>> > >>>>> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a >>>>> shudder >>>>> of >>>> awe >>>>> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target >>>>> market. >>>> Even >>>>> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products >>>> represented >>>>> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that >>>> enigmatic >>>>> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon >>>>> coyotes? >>>>> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. >>>>> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP >>>>> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust >>>>> engines." >>>> All >>>>> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just >>>>> one >>>>> rung >>>>> up >>>> the >>>>> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? >>>>> Thermolene >>>>> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: >>>>> > >>>>> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and >>>>> burn >>>> without >>>>> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, > the >>>>> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a >>>>> semi-monopropellant. >>>>> It >>>>> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but >>>>> only >>>>> a >>>> small >>>>> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or >>>>> kerosene. >>>> Most >>>>> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty >>>>> of >>>>> air >>>> to >>>>> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front >>>>> and >>>> compress >>>>> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed >>>>> into >>>>> this >>>> hot >>>>> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that >>>>> drive >>>>> the >>>>> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical >>>> air-breathing >>>>> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive >>>>> the >>>>> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and >>>>> simply >>>>> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor >>>>> with >>>>> a >>>>> > high-pressure storage bottle containing >>>>> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white > liquid >>>>> fuel >>>> that >>>>> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine >>>>> into >>>>> the >>>>> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of >>>>> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the >>>> combustion >>>>> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug >>>>> connected >>>>> to >>>> an >>>>> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of > hot >>>>> gases >>>> to >>>>> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes > prevented >>>> flames >>>>> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional >>>>> for >>>>> > "spectacular flaming night runs." >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in > a >>>>> quiet >>>>> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at >>>> Bangshift. >>>>> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the > lustworthy >>>> Rocket >>>>> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never >>>>> thought >>>>> there >>>> was >>>>> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed >> anyone >>>>> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the >>>>> case. >>>>> > >>>>> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique >>>>> system >>>>> and >>>>> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag >>>>> races >>>> associated >>>>> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with >>>>> a >>>>> Rocket >>>>> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable >>>>> quadruple >>>>> > Buick-engined dragster. >>>>> > >>>>> > But that's not all! >>>>> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a >>>>> quick-change >>>>> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb >>>>> and >>>> dumping >>>>> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny >>>>> rocket >>>> powered >>>>> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility >>>>> thanks >>>> to >>>>> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. >>>>> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: >>>>> > >>>>> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power >>>>> [in >>>>> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the >>>>> best >>>> slicks >>>>> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. >>>>> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, >>>>> but >>>>> mediocre >>>>> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. >>>>> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, >>>>> it >>>>> all >>>>> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact >> company >>>>> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, >>>>> persistent, >>> but >>>>> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and >>>>> prison >>>>> terms >>>>> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. >>>>> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place >>>>> without >>>> them. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > newVideoPlayer( >>>>> > >>>> >>> >> > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla >>>> >>> >> > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub >>>> e"} >>>>> > ); >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Rockets mailing list >>>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu Mar 11 08:21:29 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:21:29 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT computer history] was VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> References: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> Message-ID: <4B991889.7050801@hawkfeather.com> HP35 demo at headquarters in Jan '72, high school had a beta HP3000 with 110 baud teletype, IBM 370 & punch cards in college, first job had a Imsai 8080 with a paper tape reader. Andrew. Simpsonclark at aol.com wrote: > You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same > generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... > > > In a message dated 3/10/2010 11:26:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > >> I started college with a slide rule and left >> on DARPAnet. > > I started college with a slide rule and left with a slide rule and a > limited-precision four-function calculator. The rich kids had early HP > calculators... The first big purchase I made after getting a job was a TI > SR-56 calculator. Slightly lower road than DARPAnet. ;-) > +McG+ > > >> Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I guess I'm still impressed by >> the >> shear power of the program. I started college with a slide rule and > left >> on DARPAnet. I have a hard time dealing with the concept that a simple >> program can do a million hours of manual computation in a few seconds. >> When I >> was an undergraduate, this program was only doable on a CRAY >> supercomputer. Through the 70's it was classified. In the 80's it was >> not something >> that could be done without a large mainframe. Now it is something for >> the >> PC. I love being able to simulate case after case with near perfect >> accuracy, but at the same time, I miss the suspense of watching a needle >> on graph >> paper, waiting to see if my guesstimate was close. >> >> >> In a message dated 3/9/2010 11:24:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >> >> I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer > in >> the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful >> for >> some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am mostly >> interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a > newer >> version friendly to XP. Probably should. >> >> But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is essentially >> zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( >> +McG+ [snip] From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Thu Mar 11 08:47:15 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:47:15 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? Message-ID: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? http://www.quickburst.net They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any experience with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking questions, what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one better for igniters and the other for e-matches? Thanks much. From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 09:35:12 2010 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:35:12 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - anyexperience? In-Reply-To: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> References: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: I have never used his E-Match kit, but I did stock up on several of his different Igniters before he required a LEUP and I have been very impressed with them. I would also be curious to hear about the E-Match kit since my stock is quickly running out. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Dennis" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:47 AM To: Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - anyexperience? > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? > http://www.quickburst.net > > > > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any experience > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? > > > > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking questions, > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one better > for igniters and the other for e-matches? > > > > Thanks much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 09:56:42 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:56:42 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> References: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> Message-ID: Yep - Cobol on Punch cards for the IBM 360's and RPN for my HP41C > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:49:32 -0500 > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique > > You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same > generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... > > > In a message dated 3/10/2010 11:26:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > > I started college with a slide rule and left > > on DARPAnet. > > I started college with a slide rule and left with a slide rule and a > limited-precision four-function calculator. The rich kids had early HP > calculators... The first big purchase I made after getting a job was a TI > SR-56 calculator. Slightly lower road than DARPAnet. ;-) > +McG+ > > > > Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I guess I'm still impressed by > > the > > shear power of the program. I started college with a slide rule and > left > > on DARPAnet. I have a hard time dealing with the concept that a simple > > program can do a million hours of manual computation in a few seconds. > > When I > > was an undergraduate, this program was only doable on a CRAY > > supercomputer. Through the 70's it was classified. In the 80's it was > > not something > > that could be done without a large mainframe. Now it is something for > > the > > PC. I love being able to simulate case after case with near perfect > > accuracy, but at the same time, I miss the suspense of watching a needle > > on graph > > paper, waiting to see if my guesstimate was close. > > > > > > In a message dated 3/9/2010 11:24:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > > > I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer > in > > the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful > > for > > some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am mostly > > interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a > newer > > version friendly to XP. Probably should. > > > > But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is essentially > > zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( > > +McG+ > > > > > >> That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. Propep > > is > >> available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or > >> di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al > >> and > >> 10% > >> hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) > >> yields > >> fully > >> oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 range > >> (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called Guipep > >> and > >> a nice > >> explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka does > >> explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've never > >> tried > >> to do it. > >> -Robert > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > >> > >>>...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. > >> > >> I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough > >> oxygen > >> to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running > >> thermodynamic > >> sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure > >> exactly what the result would be. > >> > >> It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a > >> PROPEP > >> type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. > >> +McG+ > >> > >> > >>> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have > >>> Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting > >> with > >>> a > >>> metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety > > of > >>> suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't > >>> complete > >>> combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to > > oxidize > >> Al > >>> or Si > >>> producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as > >>> hydrogen gas. > >>> That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which > >> means > >>> high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too > much > >>> hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. > >>> Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a > >>> double-base > >>> propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. > >>> -Robert > >>> > >>> In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > >>> vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: > >>> > >>> > >>> A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" > >>> > >>> Vin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> EM > >>> AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > >>> Join me > >>> > >>>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 > >>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > >>>> To: rnech at yahoo.com > >>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled > >>>> Genius > >>>> Of > >>> Turbonique > >>>> > >>>> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 > >>>> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. > >>>> Nitromethane actually comes closer: > >>>> nitromethane: CH3NO2 > >>>> > >>>> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky > >>>> white" > >>>> strongly suggests so. > >>>> > >>>> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with > >>>> enough > >>>> oxygen > >>>> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of > >>>> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and > >>>> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a > >>>> detonable > >>>> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full > >>>> oxidation.) > >>>> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with > >>>> might > >>>> not be mere rocket fuel! > >>>> > >>>> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, > >>>> breaking > >>>> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as > a > >>>> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. > >>>> > >>>> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety > >>>> Code. > >>>> +McG+ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>> > >> > > > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique > >>>> > > >>>> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name > >>>> "Turbonique." > >>>> The > >>>> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of > the > >>>> '60s > >>>> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a > >>>> consumer > >>>> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. > >>>> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a > >>>> mail-order > >>> speed > >>>> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane > >>>> automotive > >>>> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the > >>>> company > >>>> "The > >>>> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says > >>>> > > >>>> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder > >>>> of > >>> awe > >>>> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target > >>>> market. > >>> Even > >>>> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products > >>> represented > >>>> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that > >>> enigmatic > >>>> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon > >>>> coyotes? > >>>> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. > >>>> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP > >>>> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust > >>>> engines." > >>> All > >>>> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one > >>>> rung > >>>> up > >>> the > >>>> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? > >>>> Thermolene > >>>> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: > >>>> > > >>>> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and > >>>> burn > >>> without > >>>> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, > the > >>>> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a > >>>> semi-monopropellant. > >>>> It > >>>> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but > >>>> only > >>>> a > >>> small > >>>> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or > >>>> kerosene. > >>> Most > >>>> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of > >>>> air > >>> to > >>>> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front > >>>> and > >>> compress > >>>> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into > >>>> this > >>> hot > >>>> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive > >>>> the > >>>> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical > >>> air-breathing > >>>> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive > >>>> the > >>>> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and > >>>> simply > >>>> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with > >>>> a > >>>> > high-pressure storage bottle containing > >>>> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white > liquid > >>>> fuel > >>> that > >>>> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine > >>>> into > >>>> the > >>>> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of > >>>> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the > >>> combustion > >>>> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug > >>>> connected > >>>> to > >>> an > >>>> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of > hot > >>>> gases > >>> to > >>>> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes > prevented > >>> flames > >>>> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for > >>>> > "spectacular flaming night runs." > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in > a > >>>> quiet > >>>> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at > >>> Bangshift. > >>>> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the > lustworthy > >>> Rocket > >>>> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought > >>>> there > >>> was > >>>> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed > > anyone > >>>> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed > >>>> in > >>>> a > >>>> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the > >>>> case. > >>>> > > >>>> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system > >>>> and > >>>> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races > >>> associated > >>>> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a > >>>> Rocket > >>>> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable > >>>> quadruple > >>>> > Buick-engined dragster. > >>>> > > >>>> > But that's not all! > >>>> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a > >>>> quick-change > >>>> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb > >>>> and > >>> dumping > >>>> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny > >>>> rocket > >>> powered > >>>> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility > >>>> thanks > >>> to > >>>> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. > >>>> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: > >>>> > > >>>> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power > >>>> [in > >>>> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best > >>> slicks > >>>> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. > >>>> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but > >>>> mediocre > >>>> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. > >>>> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, > >>>> it > >>>> all > >>>> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact > > company > >>>> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, > >> but > >>>> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and > >>>> prison > >>>> terms > >>>> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. > >>>> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place > >>>> without > >>> them. > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > newVideoPlayer( > >>>> > > >>> > >> > > > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla > >>> > >> > > > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub > >>> e"} > >>>> > ); > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > Rockets mailing list > >>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Rockets mailing list > >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From johnhawkins at wavecable.com Thu Mar 11 10:12:10 2010 From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com (John Hawkins) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:12:10 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - anyexperience? In-Reply-To: References: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001cac146$5e1004a0$1a300de0$@com> Last time I talked to him he wasn't able to ship Hazmat yet. I don't know if he has been able to get that going yet. I need to order some igniters from him. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Jack Anderson Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:35 AM To: Michael Dennis; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - anyexperience? I have never used his E-Match kit, but I did stock up on several of his different Igniters before he required a LEUP and I have been very impressed with them. I would also be curious to hear about the E-Match kit since my stock is quickly running out. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Dennis" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:47 AM To: Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - anyexperience? > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? > http://www.quickburst.net > > > > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any experience > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? > > > > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking questions, > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one better > for igniters and the other for e-matches? > > > > Thanks much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From fred.azinger at intel.com Thu Mar 11 10:13:24 2010 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:13:24 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: References: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> Message-ID: Real men program in Assembler... Got 10's of thousands of punch cards in the attic -- all hunt & pecked on an 029 keypunch.... 2000 to a box -- 5 boxes to a case -- got 4 or 5 cases stashed. The wife wants to know why I keep them -- but they are all "original works of art" -- can't bring myself to recycle them. I wrote a preemptive multitasking OS with a 10 disk RAID stripe in 1973....all in assembler of course. Written for an IBM 1130 clone -- IBM wanted the source and to hire the programmers (two of us) straight out of High School. It was amazing what we did with a mere 16k of real three-wire core! Going to college and using their IBM 360/67 was a step backwards. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad McClure Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:57 AM To: simpsonclark at aol.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique Yep - Cobol on Punch cards for the IBM 360's and RPN for my HP41C > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:49:32 -0500 > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique > > You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same > generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... > > > In a message dated 3/10/2010 11:26:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > > I started college with a slide rule and left > > on DARPAnet. > > I started college with a slide rule and left with a slide rule and a > limited-precision four-function calculator. The rich kids had early HP > calculators... The first big purchase I made after getting a job was a TI > SR-56 calculator. Slightly lower road than DARPAnet. ;-) > +McG+ > > > > Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I guess I'm still impressed by > > the > > shear power of the program. I started college with a slide rule and > left > > on DARPAnet. I have a hard time dealing with the concept that a simple > > program can do a million hours of manual computation in a few seconds. > > When I > > was an undergraduate, this program was only doable on a CRAY > > supercomputer. Through the 70's it was classified. In the 80's it was > > not something > > that could be done without a large mainframe. Now it is something for > > the > > PC. I love being able to simulate case after case with near perfect > > accuracy, but at the same time, I miss the suspense of watching a needle > > on graph > > paper, waiting to see if my guesstimate was close. > > > > > > In a message dated 3/9/2010 11:24:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > > > I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer > in > > the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful > > for > > some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am mostly > > interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a > newer > > version friendly to XP. Probably should. > > > > But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is essentially > > zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( > > +McG+ > > > > > >> That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. Propep > > is > >> available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or > >> di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al > >> and > >> 10% > >> hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) > >> yields > >> fully > >> oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 range > >> (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called Guipep > >> and > >> a nice > >> explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka does > >> explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've never > >> tried > >> to do it. > >> -Robert > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > >> > >>>...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. > >> > >> I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough > >> oxygen > >> to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running > >> thermodynamic > >> sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure > >> exactly what the result would be. > >> > >> It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a > >> PROPEP > >> type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. > >> +McG+ > >> > >> > >>> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have > >>> Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting > >> with > >>> a > >>> metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety > > of > >>> suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't > >>> complete > >>> combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to > > oxidize > >> Al > >>> or Si > >>> producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as > >>> hydrogen gas. > >>> That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which > >> means > >>> high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too > much > >>> hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. > >>> Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a > >>> double-base > >>> propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. > >>> -Robert > >>> > >>> In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > >>> vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: > >>> > >>> > >>> A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" > >>> > >>> Vin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> EM > >>> AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > >>> Join me > >>> > >>>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 > >>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > >>>> To: rnech at yahoo.com > >>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled > >>>> Genius > >>>> Of > >>> Turbonique > >>>> > >>>> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 > >>>> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. > >>>> Nitromethane actually comes closer: > >>>> nitromethane: CH3NO2 > >>>> > >>>> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky > >>>> white" > >>>> strongly suggests so. > >>>> > >>>> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with > >>>> enough > >>>> oxygen > >>>> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of > >>>> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and > >>>> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a > >>>> detonable > >>>> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full > >>>> oxidation.) > >>>> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with > >>>> might > >>>> not be mere rocket fuel! > >>>> > >>>> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, > >>>> breaking > >>>> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as > a > >>>> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. > >>>> > >>>> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety > >>>> Code. > >>>> +McG+ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>> > >> > > > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique > >>>> > > >>>> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name > >>>> "Turbonique." > >>>> The > >>>> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of > the > >>>> '60s > >>>> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a > >>>> consumer > >>>> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. > >>>> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a > >>>> mail-order > >>> speed > >>>> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane > >>>> automotive > >>>> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the > >>>> company > >>>> "The > >>>> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says > >>>> > > >>>> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder > >>>> of > >>> awe > >>>> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target > >>>> market. > >>> Even > >>>> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products > >>> represented > >>>> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that > >>> enigmatic > >>>> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon > >>>> coyotes? > >>>> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. > >>>> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP > >>>> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust > >>>> engines." > >>> All > >>>> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one > >>>> rung > >>>> up > >>> the > >>>> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? > >>>> Thermolene > >>>> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: > >>>> > > >>>> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and > >>>> burn > >>> without > >>>> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, > the > >>>> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a > >>>> semi-monopropellant. > >>>> It > >>>> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but > >>>> only > >>>> a > >>> small > >>>> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or > >>>> kerosene. > >>> Most > >>>> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of > >>>> air > >>> to > >>>> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front > >>>> and > >>> compress > >>>> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into > >>>> this > >>> hot > >>>> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive > >>>> the > >>>> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical > >>> air-breathing > >>>> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive > >>>> the > >>>> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and > >>>> simply > >>>> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with > >>>> a > >>>> > high-pressure storage bottle containing > >>>> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white > liquid > >>>> fuel > >>> that > >>>> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine > >>>> into > >>>> the > >>>> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of > >>>> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the > >>> combustion > >>>> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug > >>>> connected > >>>> to > >>> an > >>>> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of > hot > >>>> gases > >>> to > >>>> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes > prevented > >>> flames > >>>> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for > >>>> > "spectacular flaming night runs." > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in > a > >>>> quiet > >>>> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at > >>> Bangshift. > >>>> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the > lustworthy > >>> Rocket > >>>> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought > >>>> there > >>> was > >>>> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed > > anyone > >>>> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed > >>>> in > >>>> a > >>>> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the > >>>> case. > >>>> > > >>>> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system > >>>> and > >>>> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races > >>> associated > >>>> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a > >>>> Rocket > >>>> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable > >>>> quadruple > >>>> > Buick-engined dragster. > >>>> > > >>>> > But that's not all! > >>>> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a > >>>> quick-change > >>>> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb > >>>> and > >>> dumping > >>>> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny > >>>> rocket > >>> powered > >>>> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility > >>>> thanks > >>> to > >>>> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. > >>>> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: > >>>> > > >>>> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power > >>>> [in > >>>> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best > >>> slicks > >>>> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. > >>>> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but > >>>> mediocre > >>>> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. > >>>> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, > >>>> it > >>>> all > >>>> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact > > company > >>>> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, > >> but > >>>> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and > >>>> prison > >>>> terms > >>>> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. > >>>> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place > >>>> without > >>> them. > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > newVideoPlayer( > >>>> > > >>> > >> > > > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla > >>> > >> > > > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub > >>> e"} > >>>> > ); > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > Rockets mailing list > >>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Rockets mailing list > >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From robert.krausert at intel.com Thu Mar 11 10:27:33 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:27:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: References: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59B92229@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> COBOL '74 on a Honeywell mainframe. Used at the school district for payroll, grades, enrollment. One of my first applications compiled fine, had a small problem. It was a search routine, and once item is found, jump out. Easy enough. Sadly I wrote the condition wrong, thus making it impossible to ever finish the loop. Thus I brought the mainframe to its knees. The next day at work I was presented a brand new Louisville Slugger from our senior Systems Analyst. It had my name written on it and one tick mark. He said, "Don't get three." Gotta love those days. Fortunately I never got to experience punch cards. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad McClure Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:57 AM To: simpsonclark at aol.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique Yep - Cobol on Punch cards for the IBM 360's and RPN for my HP41C > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:49:32 -0500 > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique > > You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same > generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... > > > In a message dated 3/10/2010 11:26:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > > I started college with a slide rule and left > > on DARPAnet. > > I started college with a slide rule and left with a slide rule and a > limited-precision four-function calculator. The rich kids had early HP > calculators... The first big purchase I made after getting a job was a TI > SR-56 calculator. Slightly lower road than DARPAnet. ;-) > +McG+ > > > > Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I guess I'm still impressed by > > the > > shear power of the program. I started college with a slide rule and > left > > on DARPAnet. I have a hard time dealing with the concept that a simple > > program can do a million hours of manual computation in a few seconds. > > When I > > was an undergraduate, this program was only doable on a CRAY > > supercomputer. Through the 70's it was classified. In the 80's it was > > not something > > that could be done without a large mainframe. Now it is something for > > the > > PC. I love being able to simulate case after case with near perfect > > accuracy, but at the same time, I miss the suspense of watching a needle > > on graph > > paper, waiting to see if my guesstimate was close. > > > > > > In a message dated 3/9/2010 11:24:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > > > I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer > in > > the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful > > for > > some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am mostly > > interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a > newer > > version friendly to XP. Probably should. > > > > But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is essentially > > zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( > > +McG+ > > > > > >> That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. Propep > > is > >> available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or > >> di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al > >> and > >> 10% > >> hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) > >> yields > >> fully > >> oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 range > >> (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called Guipep > >> and > >> a nice > >> explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka does > >> explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've never > >> tried > >> to do it. > >> -Robert > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > >> > >>>...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. > >> > >> I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough > >> oxygen > >> to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running > >> thermodynamic > >> sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure > >> exactly what the result would be. > >> > >> It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a > >> PROPEP > >> type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. > >> +McG+ > >> > >> > >>> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have > >>> Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting > >> with > >>> a > >>> metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety > > of > >>> suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't > >>> complete > >>> combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to > > oxidize > >> Al > >>> or Si > >>> producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as > >>> hydrogen gas. > >>> That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which > >> means > >>> high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too > much > >>> hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. > >>> Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a > >>> double-base > >>> propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. > >>> -Robert > >>> > >>> In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > >>> vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: > >>> > >>> > >>> A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" > >>> > >>> Vin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> EM > >>> AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > >>> Join me > >>> > >>>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 > >>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > >>>> To: rnech at yahoo.com > >>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled > >>>> Genius > >>>> Of > >>> Turbonique > >>>> > >>>> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 > >>>> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. > >>>> Nitromethane actually comes closer: > >>>> nitromethane: CH3NO2 > >>>> > >>>> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky > >>>> white" > >>>> strongly suggests so. > >>>> > >>>> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with > >>>> enough > >>>> oxygen > >>>> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of > >>>> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and > >>>> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a > >>>> detonable > >>>> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full > >>>> oxidation.) > >>>> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with > >>>> might > >>>> not be mere rocket fuel! > >>>> > >>>> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, > >>>> breaking > >>>> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as > a > >>>> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. > >>>> > >>>> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety > >>>> Code. > >>>> +McG+ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>> > >> > > > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique > >>>> > > >>>> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name > >>>> "Turbonique." > >>>> The > >>>> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of > the > >>>> '60s > >>>> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a > >>>> consumer > >>>> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. > >>>> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a > >>>> mail-order > >>> speed > >>>> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane > >>>> automotive > >>>> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the > >>>> company > >>>> "The > >>>> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says > >>>> > > >>>> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder > >>>> of > >>> awe > >>>> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target > >>>> market. > >>> Even > >>>> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products > >>> represented > >>>> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that > >>> enigmatic > >>>> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon > >>>> coyotes? > >>>> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. > >>>> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP > >>>> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust > >>>> engines." > >>> All > >>>> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one > >>>> rung > >>>> up > >>> the > >>>> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? > >>>> Thermolene > >>>> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: > >>>> > > >>>> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and > >>>> burn > >>> without > >>>> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, > the > >>>> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a > >>>> semi-monopropellant. > >>>> It > >>>> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but > >>>> only > >>>> a > >>> small > >>>> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or > >>>> kerosene. > >>> Most > >>>> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of > >>>> air > >>> to > >>>> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front > >>>> and > >>> compress > >>>> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into > >>>> this > >>> hot > >>>> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive > >>>> the > >>>> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical > >>> air-breathing > >>>> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive > >>>> the > >>>> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and > >>>> simply > >>>> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with > >>>> a > >>>> > high-pressure storage bottle containing > >>>> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white > liquid > >>>> fuel > >>> that > >>>> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine > >>>> into > >>>> the > >>>> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of > >>>> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the > >>> combustion > >>>> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug > >>>> connected > >>>> to > >>> an > >>>> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of > hot > >>>> gases > >>> to > >>>> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes > prevented > >>> flames > >>>> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for > >>>> > "spectacular flaming night runs." > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in > a > >>>> quiet > >>>> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at > >>> Bangshift. > >>>> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the > lustworthy > >>> Rocket > >>>> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought > >>>> there > >>> was > >>>> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed > > anyone > >>>> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed > >>>> in > >>>> a > >>>> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the > >>>> case. > >>>> > > >>>> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system > >>>> and > >>>> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races > >>> associated > >>>> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a > >>>> Rocket > >>>> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable > >>>> quadruple > >>>> > Buick-engined dragster. > >>>> > > >>>> > But that's not all! > >>>> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a > >>>> quick-change > >>>> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb > >>>> and > >>> dumping > >>>> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny > >>>> rocket > >>> powered > >>>> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility > >>>> thanks > >>> to > >>>> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. > >>>> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: > >>>> > > >>>> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power > >>>> [in > >>>> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best > >>> slicks > >>>> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. > >>>> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but > >>>> mediocre > >>>> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. > >>>> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, > >>>> it > >>>> all > >>>> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact > > company > >>>> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, > >> but > >>>> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and > >>>> prison > >>>> terms > >>>> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. > >>>> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place > >>>> without > >>> them. > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > newVideoPlayer( > >>>> > > >>> > >> > > > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla > >>> > >> > > > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub > >>> e"} > >>>> > ); > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > Rockets mailing list > >>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Rockets mailing list > >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Thu Mar 11 10:31:34 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:31:34 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - anyexperience? In-Reply-To: <000001cac146$5e1004a0$1a300de0$@com> References: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> <000001cac146$5e1004a0$1a300de0$@com> Message-ID: <015101cac149$147b2ab0$3d718010$@Dennis42@comcast.net> His website says that he can ship as long as you have a BATFE permit and send him a copy and fill out his "Statement of Intended Use" http://www.quickburst.net/regulated_products.htm -----Original Message----- From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:12 AM To: 'Jack Anderson'; 'Michael Dennis'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - anyexperience? Last time I talked to him he wasn't able to ship Hazmat yet. I don't know if he has been able to get that going yet. I need to order some igniters from him. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Jack Anderson Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:35 AM To: Michael Dennis; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - anyexperience? I have never used his E-Match kit, but I did stock up on several of his different Igniters before he required a LEUP and I have been very impressed with them. I would also be curious to hear about the E-Match kit since my stock is quickly running out. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Dennis" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:47 AM To: Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - anyexperience? > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? > http://www.quickburst.net > > > > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any experience > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? > > > > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking questions, > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one better > for igniters and the other for e-matches? > > > > Thanks much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Thu Mar 11 10:32:29 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:32:29 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? In-Reply-To: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> References: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: Michael, We stock the kits from Quickbrst and also the there ematches. Never had any issues with either. Also Newtons 3rd is another great kit. Enjoy, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Michael Dennis wrote: > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? > http://www.quickburst.net > > > > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any experience > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? > > > > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking questions, > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one better > for igniters and the other for e-matches? > > > > Thanks much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From clappfamily at comcast.net Thu Mar 11 10:38:07 2010 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:38:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59B92229@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <21611017.16215031268332687021.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I used punch cards back in college (1978).? Amazonly enough when I started my first programming job in 1981 they still had a system using cards.? I think 2 guys took care of all the old card machines to keep this old application running.? Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: "Brad McClure" , simpsonclark at aol.com, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:27:33 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius????????Of????????Turbonique COBOL '74 on a Honeywell mainframe. Used at the school district for payroll, grades, enrollment. One of my first applications compiled fine, had a small problem. It was a search routine, and once item is found, jump out. Easy enough. Sadly I wrote the condition wrong, thus making it impossible to ever finish the loop. Thus I brought the mainframe to its knees. The next day at work I was presented a brand new Louisville Slugger from our senior Systems Analyst. It had my name written on it and one tick mark. He said, "Don't get three." Gotta love those days. Fortunately I never got to experience punch cards. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad McClure Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:57 AM To: simpsonclark at aol.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique Yep - Cobol on Punch cards for the IBM 360's and RPN for my HP41C > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:49:32 -0500 > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique > > You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same > generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... > > > In a message dated 3/10/2010 11:26:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > > I started college with a slide rule and left > > on DARPAnet. > > I started college with a slide rule and left with a slide rule and a > limited-precision four-function calculator. The rich kids had early HP > calculators... The first big purchase I made after getting a job was a TI > SR-56 calculator. Slightly lower road than DARPAnet. ;-) > +McG+ > > > > Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I guess I'm still impressed by > > the > > shear power of the program. I started college with a slide rule and > left > > on DARPAnet. I have a hard time dealing with the concept that a simple > > program can do a million hours of manual computation in a few seconds. > > When I > > was an undergraduate, this program was only doable on a CRAY > > supercomputer. Through the 70's it was classified. In the 80's it was > > not something > > that could be done without a large mainframe. Now it is something for > > the > > PC. I love being able to simulate case after case with near perfect > > accuracy, but at the same time, I miss the suspense of watching a needle > > on graph > > paper, waiting to see if my guesstimate was close. > > > > > > In a message dated 3/9/2010 11:24:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > > > I have a late 1990's version of PROPEP on the drive of an old computer > in > > the attic and the instructions still on my computer bookshelf. Useful > > for > > some things but not as much so for the oddball systems I was/am mostly > > interested in. Never got around to downloading to this computer a > newer > > version friendly to XP. Probably should. > > > > But for now actual rocket hardware and experimentation is essentially > > zero-budgeted for me. It's the stupid economy. :( > > +McG+ > > > > > >> That's what I did, but I don't have thermolene in my database. Propep > > is > >> available free from Gas Dynamics Lab. Using either nitromethane or > >> di-nitro propane as stand-ins, I found 80% nitro-hydrocarbon, 10% Al > >> and > >> 10% > >> hydrocarbon binder +/- a little iron oxide (hey... seldom hurts!) > >> yields > >> fully > >> oxidized Al, carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas with Isp in the 234 range > >> (without fine tuning). Richard Nakka has a propep GUI called Guipep > >> and > >> a nice > >> explanatory text, but I find the GDL version easier to use. Nakka does > >> explain how to add data to the thermodynamics database, but I've never > >> tried > >> to do it. > >> -Robert > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 3/9/2010 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > >> > >>>...partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as hydrogen gas. > >> > >> I'm thinking maybe that's what Thermolene does. It has just enough > >> oxygen > >> to make CO, plus nitrogen and hydrogen. But without running > >> thermodynamic > >> sims(which I don't currently have the software to do) I can't be sure > >> exactly what the result would be. > >> > >> It might be possible to plug the data for n-propyl nitrate into a > >> PROPEP > >> type program and see, but I don't have that on my computer. > >> +McG+ > >> > >> > >>> I agree that a second or third ingredient is needed. I don't have > >>> Thermolene in my data base, but Nitromethane works well if reacting > >> with > >>> a > >>> metalized binder such as htpb or silicone. I can envision a variety > > of > >>> suspensions that might work. The key to isp's in the 230's isn't > >>> complete > >>> combustion, however. The trick is to use the oxygen first to > > oxidize > >> Al > >>> or Si > >>> producing heat, then partially oxidize the C and to leave the H as > >>> hydrogen gas. > >>> That keeps the bulk of the products light, which means fast, which > >> means > >>> high isp. The shuttle main engines, for instance, use way too > much > >>> hydrogen stoichimetrically speaking. > >>> Sadly, nitro-just-about-anything would likely be considered a > >>> double-base > >>> propellant and hence not permissible under TRA rules. > >>> -Robert > >>> > >>> In a message dated 3/8/2010 11:51:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > >>> vincesimoneau at msn.com writes: > >>> > >>> > >>> A plasticiser (poly) maybe why the "milky appearance" > >>> > >>> Vin > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> EM > >>> AILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > >>> Join me > >>> > >>>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 19:56:40 -0800 > >>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > >>>> To: rnech at yahoo.com > >>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled > >>>> Genius > >>>> Of > >>> Turbonique > >>>> > >>>> n-propyl nitrate: C3H7ONO2 > >>>> Doesn't have enough oxygen for complete oxidation to CO and H2O. > >>>> Nitromethane actually comes closer: > >>>> nitromethane: CH3NO2 > >>>> > >>>> Must have been another ingredient in the Thermolene. "Milky > >>>> white" > >>>> strongly suggests so. > >>>> > >>>> Generally, anytime you have organic chemical compounds with > >>>> enough > >>>> oxygen > >>>> built into a specific molecular structure, or in the form of > >>>> interdissolved compounds, for complete oxidation of the carbon and > >>>> hydrogen(to at least carbon monoxide and water) you have a > >>>> detonable > >>>> material. (And most HE compounds don't even exhibit full > >>>> oxidation.) > >>>> This is one of the warning signs that the stuff you're playing with > >>>> might > >>>> not be mere rocket fuel! > >>>> > >>>> That said, n-propyl nitrate can still be a weak monopropellant, > >>>> breaking > >>>> down to incompletely oxidized products. And the weaker it is as > a > >>>> monopropellant, generally the less likely to be detonable. > >>>> > >>>> At any rate, not likely stuff to ever be included under the Safety > >>>> Code. > >>>> +McG+ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>> > >> > > > http://jalopnik.com/5481005/video-the-demented-rocket+propelled-genius-of-turbonique > >>>> > > >>>> > Get old-time hot-rodders together and utter the name > >>>> "Turbonique." > >>>> The > >>>> > entire conversation will shift to legends and half-truths of > the > >>>> '60s > >>>> > company supposedly created by NASA subcontractors to create a > >>>> consumer > >>>> > market for rocket technology. Now there's video. > >>>> > Turbonique Inc. was established in Orlando in 1962 as a > >>>> mail-order > >>> speed > >>>> > parts company producing some of the most amazingly insane > >>>> automotive > >>>> > upgrades ever to see the light of day. Iowahawk called the > >>>> company > >>>> "The > >>>> > Real Acme," and he's probably right. He says > >>>> > > >>>> > ...mere mention of the name "Turbonique" still inspires a shudder > >>>> of > >>> awe > >>>> > among drag racing enthusiast, the company's principle target > >>>> market. > >>> Even > >>>> > in the Wild West atmosphere of 1960s drag racing, Its products > >>> represented > >>>> > the zenith of no-compromise, crazyass crazy. Recall Acme, that > >>> enigmatic > >>>> > mail order purveyor of catapults and jet skates to cartoon > >>>> coyotes? > >>>> > Pikers, compared to Turbonique. > >>>> > The company's product line consisted of merely three items: "AP > >>>> > superchargers," "rocket drag axles," and "microturbo thrust > >>>> engines." > >>> All > >>>> > three employed the same basic rocket technology, each just one > >>>> rung > >>>> up > >>> the > >>>> > ladder of insanity from the other. The key difference? > >>>> Thermolene > >>>> > monopropellant fuel. Hot Rod magazine explains: > >>>> > > >>>> > The term monopropellant describes a fuel that will ignite and > >>>> burn > >>> without > >>>> > the presence of atmospheric oxygen. As a point of comparison, > the > >>>> > nitromethane used in Top Fuel dragsters is a > >>>> semi-monopropellant. > >>>> It > >>>> > requires a little outside oxygen for complete combustion, but > >>>> only > >>>> a > >>> small > >>>> > fraction of what is required to burn gasoline, alcohol, or > >>>> kerosene. > >>> Most > >>>> > gas turbines run on petroleum-based fuels that require plenty of > >>>> air > >>> to > >>>> > support combustion. They take in atmospheric air at the front > >>>> and > >>> compress > >>>> > it to a high temperature and pressure. Fuel is then sprayed into > >>>> this > >>> hot > >>>> > air, which ignites, creating the high-pressure gases that drive > >>>> the > >>>> > turbine wheel and make torque. The problem is that a typical > >>> air-breathing > >>>> > gas turbine uses over half of its total turbine power to drive > >>>> the > >>>> > compressor. Turbonique engineers sidestepped the problem and > >>>> simply > >>>> > replaced the weighty, expensive, and inefficient compressor with > >>>> a > >>>> > high-pressure storage bottle containing > >>>> > Normal Propyl Nitrate (Thermolene), a stable, milk-white > liquid > >>>> fuel > >>> that > >>>> > brings its own oxygen to the party and that moves the engine > >>>> into > >>>> the > >>>> > category of a rocket because it can run without the benefit of > >>>> > atmospheric oxygen. When the Thermolene is introduced to the > >>> combustion > >>>> > chamber at 600 psi and ignited by a glorified spark plug > >>>> connected > >>>> to > >>> an > >>>> > on/off switch, the immediate result is an intense release of > hot > >>>> gases > >>> to > >>>> > spin the turbine blades. Anti-swirl turbine wheel vanes > prevented > >>> flames > >>>> > from exiting the tailpipe, but a special wheel was optional for > >>>> > "spectacular flaming night runs." > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > "This is so ridiculously awesome," were the words delivered in > a > >>>> quiet > >>>> > whisper when we first saw these videos procured by the boys at > >>> Bangshift. > >>>> > We've seen Turbonique products before on cars like the > lustworthy > >>> Rocket > >>>> > Drag Axle equipped 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, but we never thought > >>>> there > >>> was > >>>> > actual video of these things in action. Naturally we assumed > > anyone > >>>> > involved in racing or filming this stuff would've been consumed > >>>> in > >>>> a > >>>> > tremendous conflagration of Thermolene, but such is not the > >>>> case. > >>>> > > >>>> > These two videos contain an explanation of the Turbonique system > >>>> and > >>>> > silent footage of probably one of the most legendary drag races > >>> associated > >>>> > with Turbonique: "The Black Widow," a VW Beetle equipped with a > >>>> Rocket > >>>> > Drag Axle, up against "Showboat," Tommy Ivo's unbelievable > >>>> quadruple > >>>> > Buick-engined dragster. > >>>> > > >>>> > But that's not all! > >>>> > How about a rocket-powered, propeller driven go-kart or a > >>>> quick-change > >>>> > rocket-powered supercharger sucking fuel through a giant carb > >>>> and > >>> dumping > >>>> > it into an otherwise stock Barracuda? No? How about a tiny > >>>> rocket > >>> powered > >>>> > boat? Rocket powered hovering platform? All were a possibility > >>>> thanks > >>> to > >>>> > the same space-age know-how that gave us astronaut ice cream. > >>>> > So what happened to Turbonique? Hot Rod continues: > >>>> > > >>>> > But as many users quickly discovered, there was too much power > >>>> [in > >>>> > Thermolene-fueled dragsters]. Extreme tire spin (even on the best > >>> slicks > >>>> > of the day) made Drag Axle-equipped cars difficult to control. > >>>> > Full-quarter-mile smoke shows with impressive trap speeds, but > >>>> mediocre > >>>> > elapsed times were the rule, not the exception. > >>>> > Regardless of whether Turbonique was onto something big or not, > >>>> it > >>>> all > >>>> > came to an end in the early '70s. Though efforts to contact > > company > >>>> > founder Gene Middlebrooks for comment were fruitless, persistent, > >> but > >>>> > unconfirmed, rumblings about allegations of mail fraud and > >>>> prison > >>>> terms > >>>> > keep surfacing as a sad postscript to the Turbonique saga. > >>>> > These men were truly giants, and the world is a colder place > >>>> without > >>> them. > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > newVideoPlayer( > >>>> > > >>> > >> > > > {"type":"video","player":"http:\/\/www.youtube.com\/v\/hPkxd7PYmTA&hl=en&fs=1&fmt=22","customParams":[],"width":500,"height":412,"ratio":0.824,"fla > >>> > >> > > > shData":"","embedName":null,"objectId":null,"noEmbed":false,"source":"youtub > >>> e"} > >>>> > ); > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > Rockets mailing list > >>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Rockets mailing list > >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Thu Mar 11 10:41:37 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:41:37 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? In-Reply-To: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> References: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: I should also add, that along with stocking quickburst ematches & kits, we also try to carry all of his ignitors. But they are usually purchased very quickly, in particular the fat boys and Twiggy. Great product and highly recommended. Enjoy, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Michael Dennis wrote: > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? > http://www.quickburst.net > > > > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any experience > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? > > > > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking questions, > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one better > for igniters and the other for e-matches? > > > > Thanks much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 12:26:00 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:26:00 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reload Question - Deployment Charge Message-ID: NOOB Question: I purchased an Aerotech 18mm RMS, read the instructions thouroughly and yet I'm left with this nagging question about the deployment charge. Essentially I can't seem to reconcile my impression that different body tube volumes should require different deployment charges. Example, my 18mm minimum body diameter rockets has a very small volume compared to most rockets that use an 18mm motor and my concern is that I'll shred the mylar shute if I use the entire powder charge for deployment. Is the a general rule for the amount of powder that should be used or am I over complicating things? Thanks -brad From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 12:57:53 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:57:53 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with Mr. Grossfeld Quickburst is a great product and not to bad on the price but I would strongly urge you to look at Newtons 3rd Rocketry. You can get all the materials from them to make your own and do not have to deal with the BATF B.S.. Out of their kit there is only 1 chemical that you will not get which is readily available at any hardware which makes it so you don't have to deal with BATF. Their prices are most excellent and they are a *"Portland Area local business".* It is also very wise to stop by and look over/buy whatever Mr. Grossfeld has in stock at any launch you find him at. He is at almost all of the OROC launches. You can never have to many. This will also give you the benefit of trying the igniters, (IE purchase a smaller quantity), on site before actually purchasing in bulk from a website. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:32 AM, robert grossfeld < rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org> wrote: > Michael, > We stock the kits from Quickbrst and also the there ematches. Never had any > issues with either. Also Newtons 3rd is another great kit. > > Enjoy, > Bob > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Michael Dennis wrote: > > > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? > > http://www.quickburst.net > > > > > > > > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any > experience > > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? > > > > > > > > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: > > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking > questions, > > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one better > > for igniters and the other for e-matches? > > > > > > > > Thanks much. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Thu Mar 11 13:00:56 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:00:56 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reload Question - Deployment Charge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brad, since I have very little experience with rockets that small I can only half answer your question. With the larger airframes the amount of charge depends on all of variables you mention plus some people use pistons and they play a part in determining charge size also. With larger rockets ground testing is the best way to find out how much BP is needed. Ground testing probably isn't a practical option for you but you might shoot a email over to Aerotech and see if they can suggest anything. I've seen many "rule of thumb" charts for airframes bigger than yours so you may be able to find one that deals with the smaller airframes. I'm sure other on this list have more experience with the small motors and airframes than I. Mark Dunkle TRA 7051 KF7EBP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad McClure" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:26 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Reload Question - Deployment Charge > > NOOB Question: > > > > I purchased an Aerotech 18mm RMS, read the instructions thouroughly and > yet I'm left with this nagging question about the deployment charge. > > > > Essentially I can't seem to reconcile my impression that different body > tube volumes should require different deployment charges. Example, my > 18mm minimum body diameter rockets has a very small volume compared to > most rockets that use an 18mm motor and my concern is that I'll shred the > mylar shute if I use the entire powder charge for deployment. > > > > Is the a general rule for the amount of powder that should be used or am I > over complicating things? > > > > Thanks > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From k2tsai at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 13:01:07 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:01:07 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reload Question - Deployment Charge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7816cff1003111301h401d9310h908b2223f20be68a@mail.gmail.com> Yup... According to Aerotech, the 18mm reloads come with 0.4g of black powder. This is a "strong" charge for most small rockets. If you're using the motor in some of the bigger rockets it's fine. For example, the old Estes Prowler was 1.637" (BT60) tube, and ~30" long. Should probabaly have used a 24mm mount like the Stormcaster, but it didn't. For the Prowler, 0.4g is a good amount, and may even be a little short. In the small Wizard/Hi-flyer etc category, 0.4g will basically blow it up. There are BP calculators out there to help figure out how much powder to use. You'll also need to figure out some way to do retention above and beyond just the motor hook. It's really easy to lose the case when it ejects itself out the rocket. Cheers, - Ken On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Brad McClure wrote: > > NOOB Question: > > > > I purchased an Aerotech 18mm RMS, read the instructions thouroughly and yet I'm left with this nagging question about the deployment charge. > > > > Essentially I can't seem to reconcile my impression that different body tube volumes should require different deployment charges. ?Example, my 18mm minimum body diameter rockets has a very small volume compared to most rockets that use an 18mm motor and my concern is that I'll shred the mylar shute if I use the entire powder charge for deployment. > > > > Is the a general rule for the amount of powder that should be used or am I over complicating things? > > > > Thanks > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 13:08:44 2010 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:08:44 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reload Question - Deployment Charge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wrote a black powder calculator several years ago, and although I designed it for high power size rockets it seems to work fine for tiny rockets too. My calculator is here: http://www.rockethead.net/black_powder_calculator.htm and there is an article on infocentral here: http://www.info-central.org/?article=303#ejection that explains why there may be no reason for concern. If you are really concerned you can always do so ground tests. Stick a smoke grain into your forward closure and fill the black powder section, then dump the black powder into a baggie. Once you figure out how much black powder a full charge holds put about half the amount into a baggie with an Estes igniter with a few feet of wire attached, put in the back end of your rocket and plug the motor mount with a dowel (taped in). connect the wire leads to a 9-volt. (make sure you're not looking down either end of the rocket). If the nose cone and parachute don't make it out then try again with a little more powder until you find the right amount. Of course, setting of several charges with Estes igniters inside a light cardboard tube might catch your rocket on fire. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brad McClure" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:26 PM To: Subject: [RocketsNW] Reload Question - Deployment Charge > > NOOB Question: > > > > I purchased an Aerotech 18mm RMS, read the instructions thouroughly and > yet I'm left with this nagging question about the deployment charge. > > > > Essentially I can't seem to reconcile my impression that different body > tube volumes should require different deployment charges. Example, my > 18mm minimum body diameter rockets has a very small volume compared to > most rockets that use an 18mm motor and my concern is that I'll shred the > mylar shute if I use the entire powder charge for deployment. > > > > Is the a general rule for the amount of powder that should be used or am I > over complicating things? > > > > Thanks > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 13:28:35 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:28:35 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I forgot to mention that Newtons 3rd Rocketry has 2 do it yourself igniter kits one is the HotFire Igniter kit which comes with everything you need to make your igniters Which should require an LEUP. The HotFire Pyrogen kit which comes without the acetone and does not require BATF paperwork. I would also recommend you only make the igniters when you are at the launch site and use them all before you leave, so you don't have any leftover igniters to deal with. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Christopher Guenther < guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote: > I agree with Mr. Grossfeld Quickburst is a great product and not to bad on > the price but I would strongly urge you to look at Newtons 3rd Rocketry. > You can get all the materials from them to make your own and do not have to > deal with the BATF B.S.. Out of their kit there is only 1 chemical that you > will not get which is readily available at any hardware which makes it so > you don't have to deal with BATF. Their prices are most excellent and they > are a *"Portland Area local business".* > > It is also very wise to stop by and look over/buy whatever Mr. Grossfeld > has in stock at any launch you find him at. He is at almost all of the OROC > launches. You can never have to many. This will also give you the benefit > of trying the igniters, (IE purchase a smaller quantity), on site before > actually purchasing in bulk from a website. > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:32 AM, robert grossfeld < > rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org> wrote: > >> Michael, >> We stock the kits from Quickbrst and also the there ematches. Never had >> any issues with either. Also Newtons 3rd is another great kit. >> >> Enjoy, >> Bob >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >> On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Michael Dennis wrote: >> >> > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? >> > http://www.quickburst.net >> > >> > >> > >> > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any >> experience >> > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? >> > >> > >> > >> > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: >> > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking >> questions, >> > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one >> better >> > for igniters and the other for e-matches? >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks much. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager >> >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 >> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 >> >> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our >> natural world. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Thu Mar 11 13:58:22 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:58:22 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Message-ID: <017f01cac165$f80168a0$e80439e0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Thanks to a recent posting I learned about Newtons 3rd Rocketry - Thanks Christopher. I noticed that they also have screw terminal switches - http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=30 But are kinda pricey (me thinks) at $3.25 each. Anyone have another source that might be cheaper? While I'm at it they list a 9v Heavy Duty Battery Holder for $1.79 - http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24 &products_id=28 Anyone used one of these? Are they metal or plastic? Thanks, Michael From robert.krausert at intel.com Thu Mar 11 14:01:17 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:01:17 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59B9254F@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Can't say anything about those brands. All my ignitors are from PML and I use their pyrogen mixture. No LEUP for those. As for matches, I only use Z11 matches. Very consistent. Z11 matches have worked on all electronics I've used. Also use those matches for the annual drag races to reduce the current stress on OROC gear. Z11 always takes good care to provide me nice thin slivers. They also don't pop; they are high temp spark for ~0.5 sec. Not pyrongen, it's greenish/black. Can't remember what they use. Price is also very good. Typically about $0.90 per match. Sometimes a little more. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:29 PM To: robert grossfeld Cc: nwrocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? I forgot to mention that Newtons 3rd Rocketry has 2 do it yourself igniter kits one is the HotFire Igniter kit which comes with everything you need to make your igniters Which should require an LEUP. The HotFire Pyrogen kit which comes without the acetone and does not require BATF paperwork. I would also recommend you only make the igniters when you are at the launch site and use them all before you leave, so you don't have any leftover igniters to deal with. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Christopher Guenther < guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote: > I agree with Mr. Grossfeld Quickburst is a great product and not to bad on > the price but I would strongly urge you to look at Newtons 3rd Rocketry. > You can get all the materials from them to make your own and do not have to > deal with the BATF B.S.. Out of their kit there is only 1 chemical that you > will not get which is readily available at any hardware which makes it so > you don't have to deal with BATF. Their prices are most excellent and they > are a *"Portland Area local business".* > > It is also very wise to stop by and look over/buy whatever Mr. Grossfeld > has in stock at any launch you find him at. He is at almost all of the OROC > launches. You can never have to many. This will also give you the benefit > of trying the igniters, (IE purchase a smaller quantity), on site before > actually purchasing in bulk from a website. > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:32 AM, robert grossfeld < > rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org> wrote: > >> Michael, >> We stock the kits from Quickbrst and also the there ematches. Never had >> any issues with either. Also Newtons 3rd is another great kit. >> >> Enjoy, >> Bob >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >> On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Michael Dennis wrote: >> >> > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? >> > http://www.quickburst.net >> > >> > >> > >> > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any >> experience >> > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? >> > >> > >> > >> > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: >> > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking >> questions, >> > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one >> better >> > for igniters and the other for e-matches? >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks much. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager >> >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 >> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 >> >> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our >> natural world. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Thu Mar 11 14:12:33 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (bwhitemarsh at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:12:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <017f01cac165$f80168a0$e80439e0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: <436289176.14009631268345553038.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> $3 each for screw terminal switches is about the going rate.?? If you want to go ultralight, Adrian at featherweight Altimeters sells mini ones at 3 for $10:? http://www.featherweightaltimeters.com/Av-Bay_Components.php . Mike at Binder Design (local) sells a bombproof (but more expensive) screw switch here:?? http://binderdesign.com/store/page6.html . For 9V battery holders, I have had good luck with these at $1 each: http://www.missileworks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4 .? They are glass-filled nylon and heavy duty. Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Dennis" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:58:22 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Thanks to a recent posting I learned about Newtons 3rd Rocketry - Thanks Christopher. ? I noticed that they also have screw terminal switches - http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=30 But are kinda pricey (me thinks) at $3.25 each. ? Anyone have another source that might be cheaper? ? While I'm at it they list a 9v Heavy Duty Battery Holder for $1.79 - http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24 &products_id=28 Anyone used one of these? ?Are they metal or plastic? ? Thanks, Michael _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 14:14:17 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:14:17 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <7088183319209377417@unknownmsgid> References: <7088183319209377417@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: The 9v Heavy Duty Battery Holder is a hard plastic. I have 2 of them. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Michael Dennis < Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net> wrote: > Thanks to a recent posting I learned about Newtons 3rd Rocketry - Thanks > Christopher. > > > > I noticed that they also have screw terminal switches - > http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=30 But > are kinda pricey (me thinks) at $3.25 each. > > > > Anyone have another source that might be cheaper? > > > > While I'm at it they list a 9v Heavy Duty Battery Holder for $1.79 - > http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24 > < > http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_i > d=28> &products_id=28 Anyone used one of these? Are they metal or > plastic? > > > > Thanks, > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Thu Mar 11 14:25:18 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:25:18 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <017f01cac165$f80168a0$e80439e0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> References: <017f01cac165$f80168a0$e80439e0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: Newton's 3rd products are very high quality. We try to stock the ignitor kits and switches, along with some of the other accessories, including their very cool 9V batter holders. They are plastic, but heavy duty. We do have some metal ones too from another supplier, but I use Newton's 3rd for my projects. Another group of products we have in stock As far as price, you get what you pay for. There are others on the market, but are not as easy to use. I have also used some of Binder Design switches, they are also very nice. We stock them too.... http://binderdesign.com/store/page5.html Bob On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Michael Dennis wrote: > Thanks to a recent posting I learned about Newtons 3rd Rocketry - Thanks > Christopher. > > > > I noticed that they also have screw terminal switches - > http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=30 But > are kinda pricey (me thinks) at $3.25 each. > > > > Anyone have another source that might be cheaper? > > > > While I'm at it they list a 9v Heavy Duty Battery Holder for $1.79 - > http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24 > d=28> &products_id=28 Anyone used one of these? Are they metal or plastic? > > > > Thanks, > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From johnhawkins at wavecable.com Thu Mar 11 14:36:00 2010 From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com (John Hawkins) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:36:00 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: References: <017f01cac165$f80168a0$e80439e0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001301cac16b$39b93160$ad2b9420$@com> I have used 3rd Newton's arming switches with no problems at all, they have worked great in my high powered rockets. as for 9v battery holders I have always got mine from Missile works http://www.missileworks.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2 I have used these battery holders for a long time and never had a problem with a battery losing a connection. I put the battery in the holder and then run a zip tie a crossed it and it is solid. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of robert grossfeld Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:25 PM To: Michael Dennis; Christopher Guenther; nwrocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Newton's 3rd products are very high quality. We try to stock the ignitor kits and switches, along with some of the other accessories, including their very cool 9V batter holders. They are plastic, but heavy duty. We do have some metal ones too from another supplier, but I use Newton's 3rd for my projects. Another group of products we have in stock As far as price, you get what you pay for. There are others on the market, but are not as easy to use. I have also used some of Binder Design switches, they are also very nice. We stock them too.... http://binderdesign.com/store/page5.html Bob On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Michael Dennis wrote: > Thanks to a recent posting I learned about Newtons 3rd Rocketry - Thanks > Christopher. > > > > I noticed that they also have screw terminal switches - > http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=30 But > are kinda pricey (me thinks) at $3.25 each. > > > > Anyone have another source that might be cheaper? > > > > While I'm at it they list a 9v Heavy Duty Battery Holder for $1.79 - > http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24 > d=28> &products_id=28 Anyone used one of these? Are they metal or plastic? > > > > Thanks, > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 14:53:22 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:53:22 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FAA Flight Wiever questions? Message-ID: My family has a farm in eastern Washington that has the potential for high altitudes. When you take into account the surrounding farms and their owners will allow rocket retrieval durring periods in which no crops are planted or growing. This would give the ability to launch, dipending on type of crops, anywhere from August through April possibly even May. Our families farm is 200 acres and the surrounding area is in the thousands of acres. The closest house other then ours is about a mile away. It is in between Connell Washington and Othello Washington out in the middle of nowhere. I would like to here from anyone who has obtained a flight weiver before on how to obtain and fill out said documents. Do you need to file for every event or can you blanket a set time frame and activate with a call in for each seperate event? I have a million questions about the process on does and don'ts. From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Thu Mar 11 15:01:07 2010 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:01:07 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <001301cac16b$39b93160$ad2b9420$@com> Message-ID: For the last few years I've used the same system with 100% success. For the battery connection, assuming you're using a typical 9v, I solder the lead wires directly to the battery. Sounds a bit extreme, but before a big launch I solder up a bunch and it only takes 10-15 minutes. Any soldering iron will do. I got this from Mike Fisher. For the battery holder I use something I stumbled on at Home Depot. The 3/4" wide aluminum channel in the angle iron section. Your typical 9v battery is a very nice press-fit into this stuff. I cut 2" lengths and attach it right to the electronics mounting board. Drill a couple of 1/4" holes on either side and a zip tie holds the battery in place. This system is bomb-proof. Or should I say "Fisher-Proof" -- Peter From Mfreptiles at aol.com Thu Mar 11 15:05:17 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:05:17 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Message-ID: <12d56.5a2a9170.38cad12d@aol.com> Thanks for the mention. If the $3.00 N3 switches sound expensive the Binder Design switches are out of your range. :) However, how much is that rocket worth? The Binder switch and the N3 switch look similar and share the same form factor, but the construction is different and more robust. They have also been tested to close to 200g's in actual flight conditions and over 1000g's in impact testing. I have yet to hear of one failing. With the components used in the N3 switch, they should be more expensive with labor figured in, so they are a good deal. Buy some before they figure out they are working for peanuts. :) Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 3/11/2010 2:13:04 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net writes: Mike at Binder Design (local) sells a bombproof (but more expensive) screw switch here: http://binderdesign.com/store/page6.html . From Mfreptiles at aol.com Thu Mar 11 15:13:17 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:13:17 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Message-ID: <13630.7faa7e5d.38cad30d@aol.com> LOL, except for the zip-tie thing. It always came back broken with the battery parts banging around in there. That's why I pot the battery in epoxy now. Even with the battery supported, the casings kept splitting open releasing the cells. That can't happen if they are potted. :) 29mm K in the works. Be afraid. Mike F. In a message dated 3/11/2010 3:01:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com writes: Drill a couple of 1/4" holes on either side and a zip tie holds the battery in place. This system is bomb-proof. Or should I say "Fisher-Proof" From robert.krausert at intel.com Thu Mar 11 15:22:25 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:22:25 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FAA Flight Wiever questions? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59B926BF@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Form 7711-2 is straight forward. Best to request a single waiver at a time in the beginning. Then over a year or so, try for a year long weekend type waiver. You'll need to know the VOR location, angle to your farm and distance in miles to one decimal point. Examle, Tillamook is off the Newburg VOR at 255 degrees @ 35.5 miles. The 7711-2 form is available on the OROC website. And I recommend being just a "good ol' boy" when talking to the service center. You're friendly in nature, so you should be fine. My comment, is just be nice, friendly, ask questions, etc. How would you talk to them after work in a local bar? Be cool. Mark will take care of you after that. Mark knows the FAR101 rules extremely well. You'll also need a NOTAM if your in a traffic zone. As for space. If the neighbors are cool, than that will help. Just remember the Uninvolved rule. What is the closest road. Distance from pad to that location times four will be your max altitude. Max is the most you can get. They'll speak up if you ask for more. Max doesn't mean to use the max. We got 10K for Tillamook. We all learned that 5 to 6K is likely our max. My point is your max may not be a real world max. As the organizer, you need to make those safety calls. Uninvolved is your waiver limit. Even a dirt road. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FAA Flight Wiever questions? My family has a farm in eastern Washington that has the potential for high altitudes. When you take into account the surrounding farms and their owners will allow rocket retrieval durring periods in which no crops are planted or growing. This would give the ability to launch, dipending on type of crops, anywhere from August through April possibly even May. Our families farm is 200 acres and the surrounding area is in the thousands of acres. The closest house other then ours is about a mile away. It is in between Connell Washington and Othello Washington out in the middle of nowhere. I would like to here from anyone who has obtained a flight weiver before on how to obtain and fill out said documents. Do you need to file for every event or can you blanket a set time frame and activate with a call in for each seperate event? I have a million questions about the process on does and don'ts. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Thu Mar 11 15:34:02 2010 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:34:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <13630.7faa7e5d.38cad30d@aol.com> Message-ID: Afraid? Me? Never!!! I forgot to mention that on the ends of the battery holder I cut 1/2" off of the sides then fold up the ends to contain the battery. The zip tie is mainly there for looks, as it usually takes a screwdriver to pry the battery out afterwards. 29mm K? Cool! My guess is something around 60" long? -- Peter Mfreptiles at aol.co m To 03/11/2010 03:13 Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com, PM rockets at rocketsnw.com cc Subject Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? LOL, except for the zip-tie thing. It always came back broken with the battery parts banging around in there. That's why I pot the battery in epoxy now. Even with the battery supported, the casings kept splitting open releasing the cells. That can't happen if they are potted. :) 29mm K in the works. Be afraid. Mike F. In a message dated 3/11/2010 3:01:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com writes: Drill a couple of 1/4" holes on either side and a zip tie holds the battery in place. This system is bomb-proof. Or should I say "Fisher-Proof" From Mfreptiles at aol.com Thu Mar 11 15:36:43 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:36:43 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Message-ID: <15018.6e0e6610.38cad88b@aol.com> Just a bit less than that. Tower launched, minimum diameter, should be just under M3. Planning on July. Mike In a message dated 3/11/2010 3:34:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com writes: 29mm K? Cool! My guess is something around 60" long? From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu Mar 11 18:21:46 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:21:46 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <436289176.14009631268345553038.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <436289176.14009631268345553038.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4B99A53A.9030704@hawkfeather.com> Aerocon has the same screw switch at slightly less, the same SPDT switch that Missleworks sells, and a couple other key switches. But you should suport local vendors :) http://www.aeroconsystems.com/electronics/switches.htm Andrew. bwhitemarsh at comcast.net wrote: > > $3 each for screw terminal switches is about the going rate. If you want to go ultralight, Adrian at featherweight Altimeters sells mini ones at 3 for $10: http://www.featherweightaltimeters.com/Av-Bay_Components.php . > > > > Mike at Binder Design (local) sells a bombproof (but more expensive) screw switch here: http://binderdesign.com/store/page6.html . > > > > For 9V battery holders, I have had good luck with these at $1 each: > > http://www.missileworks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4 . They are glass-filled nylon and heavy duty. > > > > Bryan > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Dennis" > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:58:22 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > Thanks to a recent posting I learned about Newtons 3rd Rocketry - Thanks > Christopher. > > > > I noticed that they also have screw terminal switches - > http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=30 But > are kinda pricey (me thinks) at $3.25 each. > > > > Anyone have another source that might be cheaper? > > > > While I'm at it they list a 9v Heavy Duty Battery Holder for $1.79 - > http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24 > d=28> &products_id=28 Anyone used one of these? Are they metal or plastic? > > > > Thanks, > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Thu Mar 11 20:27:21 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (Bryan Whitemarsh) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:27:21 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC rail guide policy Message-ID: <7493249F35E84A66AC2948C2EC3BCA86@BryanDesktop> Hello all: In response to recent e-mails, the BOD has posted Washington Aerospace's policy regarding launch guides at WAC-sponsored launches. Plastic rail buttons are the preferred method of guidance for all rockets above "E" impulse. Interested fliers may review the entire policy at http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/docs/wac_range_procedures.pdf. It is on page 3 under the heading, "Washington Aerospace rail button/guide policy." Thanks to those who offered their expertise in drafting this policy. Regards, Bryan Whitemarsh From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Mar 11 20:48:26 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:48:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59B92229@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com > References: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59B92229@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <80f9fc0b7758459399bb2643d6fc3c58.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> 0 GOTO 0 1 REM The following program calculates blah blah..... ;-) Long ago I used to habitually insert a keyboard activated break command in every stinkin' loop in all my BASIC programs. Used it plenty often until any given program proved out. Can't do that with the Mathcad programs. Fortunately, the escape key works for those! +McG+ > COBOL '74 on a Honeywell mainframe. Used at the school district for > payroll, grades, enrollment. One of my first applications compiled fine, > had a small problem. It was a search routine, and once item is found, jump > out. Easy enough. Sadly I wrote the condition wrong, thus making it > impossible to ever finish the loop. Thus I brought the mainframe to its > knees. The next day at work I was presented a brand new Louisville Slugger > from our senior Systems Analyst. It had my name written on it and one tick > mark. He said, "Don't get three." > > Gotta love those days. Fortunately I never got to experience punch cards. > > Cheers, > Robert From rocketsrfun at msn.com Thu Mar 11 21:15:37 2010 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:15:37 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <13630.7faa7e5d.38cad30d@aol.com> References: <13630.7faa7e5d.38cad30d@aol.com> Message-ID: Your insane Mike.... Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? LOL, except for the zip-tie thing. It always came back broken with the battery parts banging around in there. That's why I pot the battery in epoxy now. Even with the battery supported, the casings kept splitting open releasing the cells. That can't happen if they are potted. :) 29mm K in the works. Be afraid. Mike F. In a message dated 3/11/2010 3:01:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com writes: Drill a couple of 1/4" holes on either side and a zip tie holds the battery in place. This system is bomb-proof. Or should I say "Fisher-Proof" _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 21:32:41 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:32:41 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique References: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59B92229@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <80f9fc0b7758459399bb2643d6fc3c58.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <4D7DA84A7E2B4C7F9640ABFC81D99D7D@LaptopKrausert> An escape or keypress wouldn't have worked here. This was a mainframe time set execution. Other than a terminal all I can tell is if routine started and stopped. EmplID was load record by record. But the relational table to link LastName were EmplID minus one. Records were 1 through whatever. The relational table in the database were zero through. I wrote that they EmplID and RecTabID must match. But if they never did, then escape routine. My problem was they did match, but IDs weren't the same. I added that part in case someone with the same last name worked there. The next day I added a new field LastFirstName. All was better. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Krausert, Robert" Cc: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique >0 GOTO 0 > 1 REM The following program calculates blah blah..... ;-) > > Long ago I used to habitually insert a keyboard activated break command in > every stinkin' loop in all my BASIC programs. Used it plenty often until > any given program proved out. Can't do that with the Mathcad programs. > Fortunately, the escape key works for those! > > +McG+ > > >> COBOL '74 on a Honeywell mainframe. Used at the school district for >> payroll, grades, enrollment. One of my first applications compiled fine, >> had a small problem. It was a search routine, and once item is found, >> jump >> out. Easy enough. Sadly I wrote the condition wrong, thus making it >> impossible to ever finish the loop. Thus I brought the mainframe to its >> knees. The next day at work I was presented a brand new Louisville >> Slugger >> from our senior Systems Analyst. It had my name written on it and one >> tick >> mark. He said, "Don't get three." >> >> Gotta love those days. Fortunately I never got to experience punch cards. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From t.j.doll at att.net Thu Mar 11 21:38:20 2010 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:38:20 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Message-ID: <031220100538.5116.4B99D34B000D9A40000013FC22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> >You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same >generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... HP35 and HP45. When I was a freshman in college (1973), I asked my parents for a calculator for Christmas. At the time, a basic 4 function calculator was ~$100, and there was a big debate going on about if calculators should be allowed during exams - allowing them would be an 'unfair' advantage to the well-to-do (slide rules being the alternative). My dad shocked me with an HP-45 for Christmas - $395 in 1973 money!!!! For you young ones - that was more than a semester's tuition and fees (a little over $300) - several grand in today's money and as much as cleared in 3 months at my summer job! To this day, I struggle to use calculators that don't use Reverse Polish..... My room-mate at the time - a crazy Arab - had an HP-35 ($295 back then). We were getting on the elevator in our dorm one day, and while pushing the floor button with the same hand that he was holding the calculator he dropped it ~ 5 feet. He was so surprised that it still worked that he dropped it again to show how tough it was - it wasn't that tough and failed after the second drop (HP repaired it no charge as I recall, but he was constantly borrowing mine for about 3 weeks while his was getting fixed). The first few years after graduation I worked at Boeing doing big turbofan engine nozzle design for what would become the 767 and 757. I used what was considered a state of the art "Three Stream Program" - since it could simulate the free stream, the fan nozzle flow, and the core exhaust flow. The guy that had written it was in our group and considered a guru (he'd gotten an award from NASA for developing the program). The source code was contained in several boxes of punch cards which he guarded like the Hope Diamond (and remember that one missplaced card meant the program wouldn't load). Running the program took close to an hour of main-frame computer time - at several hundred dollars per hour. Making a typo on the input file and creating a garbage run was a major OOPS. After that, when we had real engine run data to process, we used another 'state of the art' system - the PDP11-70. The PDP11 computer was the size of a closet, and the disc drives were the size of a small desk. They required special climate controlled rooms, with around 10 'work station' terminals that accessed the computer. The removeable hard drive discs were huge - roughly 18" in diameter and 6" tall with maybe a dozen seperate disks in each unit. I think they held about 10 meg (which we thought was massive). To change discs you needed to go around the room and make sure no one was using the drive you were going to replace, then go through an elaborate procedure to actually change discs. Transfer speeds were horribly slow and took hours - to download a 100k flight test file I'd set it up before I left for the evening so it would download overnight, then hope nothing hickuped before the file transfer was complete and I'd have data in the morning. It really is amazing how far we've come. The last several years I've been working the engine control system for the 747-8/GEnx-2B combination. Having worked "FADEC" (Full Authority Digitial Engine Control) engine control systems for 20+ years, we've always had to worry about memory and throughput margins. During a design review early in the GEnx-2B development, I asked what margins they had. They responded they were 'at about 25%'. I was shocked - at that point in a program we'd normally target about 40% margin, since requirement growth would typically eat up another 25 - 30% and we wouldn't want to enter service with less than 10% growth margin. Oh, we meant we're currently using about 25% of our memory and throughput capability, not 25% margin. Kids...... Tim From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 21:41:06 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:41:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? References: <13630.7faa7e5d.38cad30d@aol.com> Message-ID: Mike and his 30-06 rockets. And wonders why things come apart. G-shocking a battery to death? Duh. 6-brazian G's man. You asked that battery to go from zero to [holy.bleeeeep] in a second. Mike, did you even ask the battery before purchase if it was ok with the plans? All joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 inch, 800 grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck show. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Harris" To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > Your insane Mike.... > > Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mfreptiles at aol.com > To: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com ; > rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > > LOL, except for the zip-tie thing. It always came back broken with the > battery parts banging around in there. That's why I pot the battery in > epoxy > now. Even with the battery supported, the casings kept splitting open > releasing the cells. That can't happen if they are potted. :) > > 29mm K in the works. Be afraid. > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/11/2010 3:01:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com writes: > > Drill a couple of 1/4" > holes on either side and a zip tie holds the battery in place. > > This system is bomb-proof. Or should I say "Fisher-Proof" > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From t.j.doll at att.net Thu Mar 11 21:51:45 2010 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:51:45 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst Message-ID: <031220100551.13135.4B99D67100079E5F0000334F22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> >>I should also add, that along with stocking quickburst ematches & kits, we also >>try to carry all of his ignitors. But they are usually purchased very quickly, >>in particular the fat boys and Twiggy. Great product and highly recommended. >>Enjoy, >>Bob No experience with the Quickburst igniter 'kits', but Twiggy's are no question the best F-G-H engine igniters I've used. I've NEVER had a motor fail to light with a Twiggy, and even chuff's are rare. You push the button and the motor lights - no questions, no drama, it just goes. Better yet, they are reasonably priced - Twiggy's are significantly cheaper than Sure-fire Juniors and priced competitive with the new Quest Q2G2 igniters. My only complaint with Twiggy's is that they often won't fit in the nozzle of a single use F or G motor (RMS is not a problem). Oh, and that LEUP crap. Tim From vincesimoneau at msn.com Thu Mar 11 22:38:02 2010 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:38:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius In-Reply-To: <031220100538.5116.4B99D34B000D9A40000013FC22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <031220100538.5116.4B99D34B000D9A40000013FC22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Ok Ok ... I was on the small end of Tim and all Boeing engineers punch cards... I recycled over 40 64cubes of punch cards A DAY ! I also drove a "hot truck" that delivered, distributed/redistributed and returned the huge "portable hard drives" (a stack of 33 rpm sized magnetic discs in a plastic housing). Ancient history...when the first apple rev 1 was set down in front of me in '77 as a high school senior, with a cassette fed memory to see what we thought and after spending (seemingly) countless hours trying to retrieve a simple sentence from the friggin tape, we (the three of us who got to play with em) told Steve (yeah, THAT Steve...) that there was NO WAY this system would EVER be a "home computer"..... WOW how things have changed.... Vinny ...................... EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: t.j.doll at att.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:38:20 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius > > >You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same > >generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... > > HP35 and HP45. When I was a freshman in college (1973), I asked my parents for a calculator for Christmas. At the time, a basic 4 function calculator was ~$100, and there was a big debate going on about if calculators should be allowed during exams - allowing them would be an 'unfair' advantage to the well-to-do (slide rules being the alternative). My dad shocked me with an HP-45 for Christmas - $395 in 1973 money!!!! For you young ones - that was more than a semester's tuition and fees (a little over $300) - several grand in today's money and as much as cleared in 3 months at my summer job! > > To this day, I struggle to use calculators that don't use Reverse Polish..... > > My room-mate at the time - a crazy Arab - had an HP-35 ($295 back then). We were getting on the elevator in our dorm one day, and while pushing the floor button with the same hand that he was holding the calculator he dropped it ~ 5 feet. He was so surprised that it still worked that he dropped it again to show how tough it was - it wasn't that tough and failed after the second drop (HP repaired it no charge as I recall, but he was constantly borrowing mine for about 3 weeks while his was getting fixed). > > The first few years after graduation I worked at Boeing doing big turbofan engine nozzle design for what would become the 767 and 757. I used what was considered a state of the art "Three Stream Program" - since it could simulate the free stream, the fan nozzle flow, and the core exhaust flow. The guy that had written it was in our group and considered a guru (he'd gotten an award from NASA for developing the program). The source code was contained in several boxes of punch cards which he guarded like the Hope Diamond (and remember that one missplaced card meant the program wouldn't load). Running the program took close to an hour of main-frame computer time - at several hundred dollars per hour. Making a typo on the input file and creating a garbage run was a major OOPS. > > After that, when we had real engine run data to process, we used another 'state of the art' system - the PDP11-70. The PDP11 computer was the size of a closet, and the disc drives were the size of a small desk. They required special climate controlled rooms, with around 10 'work station' terminals that accessed the computer. The removeable hard drive discs were huge - roughly 18" in diameter and 6" tall with maybe a dozen seperate disks in each unit. I think they held about 10 meg (which we thought was massive). To change discs you needed to go around the room and make sure no one was using the drive you were going to replace, then go through an elaborate procedure to actually change discs. Transfer speeds were horribly slow and took hours - to download a 100k flight test file I'd set it up before I left for the evening so it would download overnight, then hope nothing hickuped before the file transfer was complete and I'd have data in the morning. > > It really is amazing how far we've come. The last several years I've been working the engine control system for the 747-8/GEnx-2B combination. Having worked "FADEC" (Full Authority Digitial Engine Control) engine control systems for 20+ years, we've always had to worry about memory and throughput margins. During a design review early in the GEnx-2B development, I asked what margins they had. They responded they were 'at about 25%'. I was shocked - at that point in a program we'd normally target about 40% margin, since requirement growth would typically eat up another 25 - 30% and we wouldn't want to enter service with less than 10% growth margin. > > Oh, we meant we're currently using about 25% of our memory and throughput capability, not 25% margin. > > Kids...... > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From willey at selby.com Thu Mar 11 22:25:49 2010 From: willey at selby.com (Stephen S. W. Mats Mats) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:25:49 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] ground testing an altimeter that uses an accelerometer for launch detect Message-ID: <16A34A48-DB80-4498-8F1A-CB986E41921A@selby.com> I'd like to ground test my ARTS2 altimeter but it's use of an accelerometer for launch detect foils my testing. I don't think I want to try subjecting the altimeter and my vacuum chamber to enough acceleration to simulate launch. Anyone hav any ideas? steve From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 12 06:38:36 2010 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 06:38:36 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? In-Reply-To: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> References: <012e01cac13a$81d786d0$85869470$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: Excellent products. Mark > From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:47:15 -0800 > Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? > > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? > http://www.quickburst.net > > > > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any experience > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? > > > > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking questions, > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one better > for igniters and the other for e-matches? > > > > Thanks much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850552/direct/01/ From vonrang at yahoo.com Fri Mar 12 07:03:56 2010 From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:03:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <813113.66745.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I agree. I have used Quickburst now for four years. Very reliable for both igniters and e-matches. Sam Grado TRA L2 "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"! sales at pvconly.com http://www.pvconly.com http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Mark Lyons wrote: From: Mark Lyons Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? To: michael.dennis42 at comcast.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 8:38 AM Excellent products. Mark > From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:47:15 -0800 > Subject: [RocketsNW] Igniters and e-match kits from quickburst - any experience? > > Maybe I could get the groups opinions on the Quickburst offerings? > http://www.quickburst.net > > > > They offer up some igniter and e-match "kits". Anyone have any experience > with 'em? Is the price reasonable? Alternatives? > > > > Reliability? In particular the E-match kits here: > http://www.quickburst.net/e_matchkit.htm And while I'm asking questions, > what is the difference between "H-3" and "Quickdip" and why is one better > for igniters and the other for e-matches? > > > > Thanks much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850552/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From Mfreptiles at aol.com Fri Mar 12 09:05:04 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:05:04 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Message-ID: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com> Thanks Robert, I always enjoy the humor. :) Probably July will be my only OROC launch this year. I think it wise to launch this 29mm K out at the M distance like we did the 38mm L. Should break 200g's. Skeptics are free to come watch. Mike F. In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: All joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 inch, 800 grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck show. From fred.azinger at intel.com Fri Mar 12 09:54:56 2010 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:54:56 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius In-Reply-To: References: <031220100538.5116.4B99D34B000D9A40000013FC22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Reminds me of a little office incident....long ago... We were working on the source code card deck for our OS and it was housed in one of those special heavy metal file cabinets made to hold about 2x20 drawers that each held about 3000 cards... Well....it was the dreaded too many open drawers.... We were sitting there looking at whatever and all of a sudden WHAM!!! The file cabinet flipped forward and got jammed at about 45-degrees against the far wall of the narrow corridor, trapping us in...Sheetrock dust, real dust and a few hundred file cards filled the air! Of course this happened at a time when nobody else was in the office, nor expected that day. Which was good and bad ;-) Good that we were not embarrassed. Bad that we had to dig ourselves out from the inside. It was really hard to get the cabinet back upright.......we had empty some of the drawers and had to pile the cards around us in the limited space....that you darn not knock over or scramble! We got the drawer back upright and then spent the rest of the day and the whole next putting the strewn cards back in the order matching the listings and re-building everything to verify it worked.... We were SO lucky the cabinet didn't go over right when we opened the last drawer but instead hesitated for a short time -- always wondered why the wait? What triggered the fall? FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Vince Simoneau Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:38 PM To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Ok Ok ... I was on the small end of Tim and all Boeing engineers punch cards... I recycled over 40 64cubes of punch cards A DAY ! I also drove a "hot truck" that delivered, distributed/redistributed and returned the huge "portable hard drives" (a stack of 33 rpm sized magnetic discs in a plastic housing). Ancient history...when the first apple rev 1 was set down in front of me in '77 as a high school senior, with a cassette fed memory to see what we thought and after spending (seemingly) countless hours trying to retrieve a simple sentence from the friggin tape, we (the three of us who got to play with em) told Steve (yeah, THAT Steve...) that there was NO WAY this system would EVER be a "home computer"..... WOW how things have changed.... Vinny ...................... EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: t.j.doll at att.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:38:20 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius > > >You got out of college quicker than I did, but we are both of the same > >generation. HP41C anyone? remember Wangs? Punch cards?... > > HP35 and HP45. When I was a freshman in college (1973), I asked my parents for a calculator for Christmas. At the time, a basic 4 function calculator was ~$100, and there was a big debate going on about if calculators should be allowed during exams - allowing them would be an 'unfair' advantage to the well-to-do (slide rules being the alternative). My dad shocked me with an HP-45 for Christmas - $395 in 1973 money!!!! For you young ones - that was more than a semester's tuition and fees (a little over $300) - several grand in today's money and as much as cleared in 3 months at my summer job! > > To this day, I struggle to use calculators that don't use Reverse Polish..... > > My room-mate at the time - a crazy Arab - had an HP-35 ($295 back then). We were getting on the elevator in our dorm one day, and while pushing the floor button with the same hand that he was holding the calculator he dropped it ~ 5 feet. He was so surprised that it still worked that he dropped it again to show how tough it was - it wasn't that tough and failed after the second drop (HP repaired it no charge as I recall, but he was constantly borrowing mine for about 3 weeks while his was getting fixed). > > The first few years after graduation I worked at Boeing doing big turbofan engine nozzle design for what would become the 767 and 757. I used what was considered a state of the art "Three Stream Program" - since it could simulate the free stream, the fan nozzle flow, and the core exhaust flow. The guy that had written it was in our group and considered a guru (he'd gotten an award from NASA for developing the program). The source code was contained in several boxes of punch cards which he guarded like the Hope Diamond (and remember that one missplaced card meant the program wouldn't load). Running the program took close to an hour of main-frame computer time - at several hundred dollars per hour. Making a typo on the input file and creating a garbage run was a major OOPS. > > After that, when we had real engine run data to process, we used another 'state of the art' system - the PDP11-70. The PDP11 computer was the size of a closet, and the disc drives were the size of a small desk. They required special climate controlled rooms, with around 10 'work station' terminals that accessed the computer. The removeable hard drive discs were huge - roughly 18" in diameter and 6" tall with maybe a dozen seperate disks in each unit. I think they held about 10 meg (which we thought was massive). To change discs you needed to go around the room and make sure no one was using the drive you were going to replace, then go through an elaborate procedure to actually change discs. Transfer speeds were horribly slow and took hours - to download a 100k flight test file I'd set it up before I left for the evening so it would download overnight, then hope nothing hickuped before the file transfer was complete and I'd have data in the morning. > > It really is amazing how far we've come. The last several years I've been working the engine control system for the 747-8/GEnx-2B combination. Having worked "FADEC" (Full Authority Digitial Engine Control) engine control systems for 20+ years, we've always had to worry about memory and throughput margins. During a design review early in the GEnx-2B development, I asked what margins they had. They responded they were 'at about 25%'. I was shocked - at that point in a program we'd normally target about 40% margin, since requirement growth would typically eat up another 25 - 30% and we wouldn't want to enter service with less than 10% growth margin. > > Oh, we meant we're currently using about 25% of our memory and throughput capability, not 25% margin. > > Kids...... > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From johnhawkins at wavecable.com Fri Mar 12 11:10:44 2010 From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com (John Hawkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:10:44 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com> References: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com> Message-ID: <000501cac217$b729d990$257d8cb0$@com> One of these days Mike I will make it to one of your launches, I have to see these motors fly, you can hear about them, try to video them but nothing is better than to see everyone get whiplash trying to keep up with one of your rockets :D John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:05 AM To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Thanks Robert, I always enjoy the humor. :) Probably July will be my only OROC launch this year. I think it wise to launch this 29mm K out at the M distance like we did the 38mm L. Should break 200g's. Skeptics are free to come watch. Mike F. In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: All joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 inch, 800 grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck show. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From k2tsai at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 11:15:55 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:15:55 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <000501cac217$b729d990$257d8cb0$@com> References: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com> <000501cac217$b729d990$257d8cb0$@com> Message-ID: <7816cff1003121115m418e569bp9529f8e01c3f0933@mail.gmail.com> I wonder if there's a special "whiplash insurance supplemental" for these launches. They can call it the "Fisher Clause." :) - Ken On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:10 AM, John Hawkins wrote: > One of these days Mike I will make it to one of your launches, I have to see > these motors fly, you can hear about them, try to video them but nothing is > better than to see everyone get whiplash trying to keep up with one of your > rockets :D > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:05 AM > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > Thanks Robert, I always enjoy the humor. :) > > Probably July will be my only OROC launch this year. ?I think it wise ?to > launch this 29mm K out at the M distance like we did the 38mm L. ? Should > break 200g's. ?Skeptics are free to come watch. > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: > > All ?joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 inch, > 800 ?grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck ?show. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From johnhawkins at wavecable.com Fri Mar 12 11:56:25 2010 From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com (John Hawkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:56:25 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <7816cff1003121115m418e569bp9529f8e01c3f0933@mail.gmail.com> References: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com> <000501cac217$b729d990$257d8cb0$@com> <7816cff1003121115m418e569bp9529f8e01c3f0933@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000f01cac21e$1b42a3c0$51c7eb40$@com> excellent idea from what I hear you would most likely be a wise choice :D -----Original Message----- From: Ken Tsai [mailto:k2tsai at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:16 AM To: John Hawkins Cc: Mfreptiles at aol.com; lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? I wonder if there's a special "whiplash insurance supplemental" for these launches. They can call it the "Fisher Clause." :) - Ken On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:10 AM, John Hawkins wrote: > One of these days Mike I will make it to one of your launches, I have to see > these motors fly, you can hear about them, try to video them but nothing is > better than to see everyone get whiplash trying to keep up with one of your > rockets :D > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:05 AM > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > Thanks Robert, I always enjoy the humor. :) > > Probably July will be my only OROC launch this year. ?I think it wise ?to > launch this 29mm K out at the M distance like we did the 38mm L. ? Should > break 200g's. ?Skeptics are free to come watch. > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: > > All ?joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 inch, > 800 ?grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck ?show. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Fri Mar 12 12:41:02 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:41:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <12d56.5a2a9170.38cad12d@aol.com> References: <12d56.5a2a9170.38cad12d@aol.com> Message-ID: <01fb01cac224$550f55c0$ff2e0140$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Yeah, I was hoping to find something "cheaper" for my smaller, less stressed (smaller motor, larger rocket) needs. For my bigger (more expensive) and more stressed rockets I'll be moving to yours Mike. I've used key operated switches in the past but they are big PITA, especially when you can't find the key :-) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:05 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Thanks for the mention. If the $3.00 N3 switches sound expensive the Binder Design switches are out of your range. :) However, how much is that rocket worth? The Binder switch and the N3 switch look similar and share the same form factor, but the construction is different and more robust. They have also been tested to close to 200g's in actual flight conditions and over 1000g's in impact testing. I have yet to hear of one failing. With the components used in the N3 switch, they should be more expensive with labor figured in, so they are a good deal. Buy some before they figure out they are working for peanuts. :) Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 3/11/2010 2:13:04 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net writes: Mike at Binder Design (local) sells a bombproof (but more expensive) screw switch here: http://binderdesign.com/store/page6.html . _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Fri Mar 12 14:56:21 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:56:21 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch Message-ID: The first official Washington Aerospace launch of 2010 is scheduled for March 27th and 28th. That's just over two weeks from today! This launch is new to our schedule and is going to give northwest fliers an early opportunity show off what they've been working on all winter. Due to another event scheduled at the Snell Ranch, this launch will be held at the Sportsmen's Club. We will have an 8,000' AGL ceiling when flying from the race track and a 14,000' AGL limit from the away cell (if needed). I'm trying to get a rough idea of how many people will be attending this launch to determine how much (and which) GSE to haul to the site. Please let me know if you plan to attend *and* whether you plan to fly anything larger than a K or higher than 8,000'. It's likely this will be a "small" launch, which means that only a subset of our GSE will be available. If you don't tell me you are coming, I may not have the GSE you need. I hope to see you in a couple of weeks! - Carl From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Fri Mar 12 16:31:14 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:31:14 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carl, We plan to attend as long as the roads & weather are decent. We will be bring a wide selection of motors, hardware, electronics and accessories, but not the whole store! I will bring kits and other stuff if requested. We will only have the store open on Saturday the 27th. I will be heading home that night. We will be bringing prepaid reloads, and as much other stuff that I can stick in the truck, but not the trailer. If you want something to be there, please let us know in advance. Might even bring a rocket or two to fly, if the launch is small enough........... Thanks, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory www.rocketryshop.org On Mar 12, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > The first official Washington Aerospace launch of 2010 is scheduled for > March 27th and 28th. That's just over two weeks from today! This launch is > new to our schedule and is going to give northwest fliers an early > opportunity show off what they've been working on all winter. > > Due to another event scheduled at the Snell Ranch, this launch will be held > at the Sportsmen's Club. We will have an 8,000' AGL ceiling when flying from > the race track and a 14,000' AGL limit from the away cell (if needed). > > I'm trying to get a rough idea of how many people will be attending this > launch to determine how much (and which) GSE to haul to the site. Please let > me know if you plan to attend *and* whether you plan to fly anything larger > than a K or higher than 8,000'. It's likely this will be a "small" launch, > which means that only a subset of our GSE will be available. If you don't > tell me you are coming, I may not have the GSE you need. > > I hope to see you in a couple of weeks! > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 12 18:03:04 2010 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:03:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Val and I will be there!!! Mark > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:56:21 -0800 > From: carl at mousetrap.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch > > The first official Washington Aerospace launch of 2010 is scheduled for > March 27th and 28th. That's just over two weeks from today! This launch is > new to our schedule and is going to give northwest fliers an early > opportunity show off what they've been working on all winter. > > Due to another event scheduled at the Snell Ranch, this launch will be held > at the Sportsmen's Club. We will have an 8,000' AGL ceiling when flying from > the race track and a 14,000' AGL limit from the away cell (if needed). > > I'm trying to get a rough idea of how many people will be attending this > launch to determine how much (and which) GSE to haul to the site. Please let > me know if you plan to attend *and* whether you plan to fly anything larger > than a K or higher than 8,000'. It's likely this will be a "small" launch, > which means that only a subset of our GSE will be available. If you don't > tell me you are coming, I may not have the GSE you need. > > I hope to see you in a couple of weeks! > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_1 From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 18:25:50 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:25:50 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch References: Message-ID: <4014270022394E5A9F4C8B11E162DE90@LaptopKrausert> Carl, You're announcement has been posted. Good wishes to the event. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" ; "WAC Members" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch > The first official Washington Aerospace launch of 2010 is scheduled for > March 27th and 28th. That's just over two weeks from today! This launch is > new to our schedule and is going to give northwest fliers an early > opportunity show off what they've been working on all winter. > > Due to another event scheduled at the Snell Ranch, this launch will be > held > at the Sportsmen's Club. We will have an 8,000' AGL ceiling when flying > from > the race track and a 14,000' AGL limit from the away cell (if needed). > > I'm trying to get a rough idea of how many people will be attending this > launch to determine how much (and which) GSE to haul to the site. Please > let > me know if you plan to attend *and* whether you plan to fly anything > larger > than a K or higher than 8,000'. It's likely this will be a "small" launch, > which means that only a subset of our GSE will be available. If you don't > tell me you are coming, I may not have the GSE you need. > > I hope to see you in a couple of weeks! > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Fri Mar 12 18:51:32 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 02:51:32 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why Message-ID: <1078399261-1268448654-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1842098241-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I am getting ready to do my first fiberglass work on a rocket and would like to know what y'all have done before. This is my "introductory" rocket into the J and K sizes. I am only doing tip to tip on the fins, the tubes are already glassed (purchased that way). What weight is overkill? Would more layers of a lighter weight cloth be equivalent to fewer layers of a heavier cloth(4 at 3oz vs 2 at 6oz for example)? Finally, I am wondering about the value of laying the additional layers at different angles to the first (rotated 45 deg). Thanks Robert. Braibish From appusher at q.com Fri Mar 12 19:09:44 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 03:09:44 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carl, Dave and I will be there with the store and a few new projects to fly. Discounts for pre-orders. Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:56:21 -0800 > From: carl at mousetrap.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch > > The first official Washington Aerospace launch of 2010 is scheduled for > March 27th and 28th. That's just over two weeks from today! This launch is > new to our schedule and is going to give northwest fliers an early > opportunity show off what they've been working on all winter. > > Due to another event scheduled at the Snell Ranch, this launch will be held > at the Sportsmen's Club. We will have an 8,000' AGL ceiling when flying from > the race track and a 14,000' AGL limit from the away cell (if needed). > > I'm trying to get a rough idea of how many people will be attending this > launch to determine how much (and which) GSE to haul to the site. Please let > me know if you plan to attend *and* whether you plan to fly anything larger > than a K or higher than 8,000'. It's likely this will be a "small" launch, > which means that only a subset of our GSE will be available. If you don't > tell me you are coming, I may not have the GSE you need. > > I hope to see you in a couple of weeks! > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 19:15:49 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:15:49 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why References: <1078399261-1268448654-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1842098241-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <432FCC0D5CCF4A4EA1C7428EFAD34BA9@LaptopKrausert> Robert, How fast will you going? If mach or in the zone, try a layer. Do a layer of glass followed by a layer of kevlar or carbon fiber. That way your harmonic vibrations are not focused on a single structure. Doing many layers of thin or a couple of thin all have the same properties. Glassing on it's own works. So I've learned. But if you hit the mach zone, get through it quickly. Or stagger your materials to keep harmonics at bay. My two cents, no expert! Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Braibish" To: "RocketsNW" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 6:51 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why >I am getting ready to do my first fiberglass work on a rocket and would >like to know what y'all have done before. This is my "introductory" rocket >into the J and K sizes. I am only doing tip to tip on the fins, the tubes >are already glassed (purchased that way). What weight is overkill? Would >more layers of a lighter weight cloth be equivalent to fewer layers of a >heavier cloth(4 at 3oz vs 2 at 6oz for example)? Finally, I am wondering about >the value of laying the additional layers at different angles to the first >(rotated 45 deg). > Thanks > > Robert. Braibish > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Mar 12 19:32:50 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:32:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: <4D7DA84A7E2B4C7F9640ABFC81D99D7D@LaptopKrausert> References: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59B92229@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <80f9fc0b7758459399bb2643d6fc3c58.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> <4D7DA84A7E2B4C7F9640ABFC81D99D7D@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: Tiny little mistakes like that have cost me soooooo many hours screaming at my idiot computer! ;-) +McG+ > An escape or keypress wouldn't have worked here. This was a mainframe time > set execution. Other than a terminal all I can tell is if routine started > and stopped. > > EmplID was load record by record. But the relational table to link > LastName > were EmplID minus one. Records were 1 through whatever. The relational > table > in the database were zero through. I wrote that they EmplID and RecTabID > must match. But if they never did, then escape routine. > > My problem was they did match, but IDs weren't the same. I added that part > in case someone with the same last name worked there. > > The next day I added a new field LastFirstName. All was better. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Krausert, Robert" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 8:48 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of > Turbonique > > >>0 GOTO 0 >> 1 REM The following program calculates blah blah..... ;-) >> >> Long ago I used to habitually insert a keyboard activated break command >> in >> every stinkin' loop in all my BASIC programs. Used it plenty often >> until >> any given program proved out. Can't do that with the Mathcad programs. >> Fortunately, the escape key works for those! >> >> +McG+ >> >> >>> COBOL '74 on a Honeywell mainframe. Used at the school district for >>> payroll, grades, enrollment. One of my first applications compiled >>> fine, >>> had a small problem. It was a search routine, and once item is found, >>> jump >>> out. Easy enough. Sadly I wrote the condition wrong, thus making it >>> impossible to ever finish the loop. Thus I brought the mainframe to its >>> knees. The next day at work I was presented a brand new Louisville >>> Slugger >>> from our senior Systems Analyst. It had my name written on it and one >>> tick >>> mark. He said, "Don't get three." >>> >>> Gotta love those days. Fortunately I never got to experience punch >>> cards. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From fred at azinger.com Fri Mar 12 19:49:00 2010 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:49:00 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com> References: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com> Message-ID: <00db01cac260$1e5f2000$5b1d6000$@com> Anybody got access to a high speed video camera??? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:05 AM To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Thanks Robert, I always enjoy the humor. :) Probably July will be my only OROC launch this year. I think it wise to launch this 29mm K out at the M distance like we did the 38mm L. Should break 200g's. Skeptics are free to come watch. Mike F. In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: All joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 inch, 800 grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck show. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at bigredbee.com Fri Mar 12 19:52:19 2010 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:52:19 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why In-Reply-To: <432FCC0D5CCF4A4EA1C7428EFAD34BA9@LaptopKrausert> References: <1078399261-1268448654-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1842098241-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <432FCC0D5CCF4A4EA1C7428EFAD34BA9@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: When I'm making minimum diameter 54mm rockets, I use good fillets made from some sort of chopped fiber (kevlar, fiberglass, etc) to attach my carbon/plywood fins to the body tube. Then one layer of 4oz or so fabric (usually carbon) that goes 1/2 way to the edge, and then another of the same all the way to the edge. I don't change orientation, and I"m not going for the ultimate in light weight design. I suspect that this is actually overkill - never had fin fall off using this recipe (but have when I've skimped!). BTW, here's the current list of records for the Brothers launch site -- let's see if we can break some old records, or fill in the gaps! This looks pretty out of date, so if you've got actual flight data in the form of altimeter / telemetry data, send me the details, and I'll try to update the spreadsheet (assuming I can find the spreadsheet ;) http://bigredbee.com/docs/OROC%20Records.htm -- Greg On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Robert, > How fast will you going? If mach or in the zone, try a layer. > > Do a layer of glass followed by a layer of kevlar or carbon fiber. > > That way your harmonic vibrations are not focused on a single structure. > Doing many layers of thin or a couple of thin all have the same properties. > > Glassing on it's own works. So I've learned. But if you hit the mach zone, > get through it quickly. Or stagger your materials to keep harmonics at bay. > > My two cents, no expert! > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Braibish" < > cpovercg at rocketmail.com> > To: "RocketsNW" > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 6:51 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why > > > > I am getting ready to do my first fiberglass work on a rocket and would >> like to know what y'all have done before. This is my "introductory" rocket >> into the J and K sizes. I am only doing tip to tip on the fins, the tubes >> are already glassed (purchased that way). What weight is overkill? Would >> more layers of a lighter weight cloth be equivalent to fewer layers of a >> heavier cloth(4 at 3oz vs 2 at 6oz for example)? Finally, I am wondering about >> the value of laying the additional layers at different angles to the first >> (rotated 45 deg). >> Thanks >> >> Robert. Braibish >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From stefan_jones at comcast.net Fri Mar 12 21:04:59 2010 From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (Stefan Jones) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 05:04:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? Message-ID: <339732269.2378831268456699217.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I have a small box of rockets and motors ready to stick in the car. How likely does it look that things will pan out? From jpr602 at mac.com Fri Mar 12 21:10:20 2010 From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:10:20 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? In-Reply-To: <339732269.2378831268456699217.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <339732269.2378831268456699217.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <5128CE5B-8159-452E-AC98-03228EDB16AE@mac.com> On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Stefan Jones wrote: > I have a small box of rockets and motors ready to stick in the car. > > How likely does it look that things will pan out? > Do you mean Wilsonville? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 21:31:48 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:31:48 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? References: <339732269.2378831268456699217.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <5128CE5B-8159-452E-AC98-03228EDB16AE@mac.com> Message-ID: <2B7B415994664540802FD8C621DF081D@LaptopKrausert> Stefan, If indeed you meant Wilsonville. Weather folks (ie. Magic 8-ball) shows weather being improved in the afternoon period. Rain is expected early AM and then clearing Saturday before noon and until Sunday AM. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roberts" To: "rockets northwest" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Stefan Jones wrote: > >> I have a small box of rockets and motors ready to stick in the car. >> >> How likely does it look that things will pan out? >> > > Do you mean Wilsonville? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 12 21:49:11 2010 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:49:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? In-Reply-To: <2B7B415994664540802FD8C621DF081D@LaptopKrausert> References: <339732269.2378831268456699217.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <5128CE5B-8159-452E-AC98-03228EDB16AE@mac.com> <2B7B415994664540802FD8C621DF081D@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <442829.36622.qm@web110807.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dang I got excited for a second there. Even tho I would have to work, I sill got excited. John Hornsby ________________________________ From: Robert Krausert To: John Roberts ; rockets northwest Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 9:31:48 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? Stefan, If indeed you meant Wilsonville. Weather folks (ie. Magic 8-ball) shows weather being improved in the afternoon period. Rain is expected early AM and then clearing Saturday before noon and until Sunday AM. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roberts" To: "rockets northwest" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Stefan Jones wrote: > >> I have a small box of rockets and motors ready to stick in the car. >> >> How likely does it look that things will pan out? >> > > Do you mean Wilsonville? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From stefan_jones at comcast.net Fri Mar 12 22:28:06 2010 From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (Stefan Jones) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 06:28:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? In-Reply-To: <442829.36622.qm@web110807.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5208463.2389631268461686907.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Yes, Wilsonville! Don't know why I keep mixing those up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hornsby" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:49:11 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? Dang I got excited for a second there. Even tho I would have to work, I sill got excited. John Hornsby ________________________________ From: Robert Krausert To: John Roberts ; rockets northwest Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 9:31:48 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? Stefan, If indeed you meant Wilsonville. Weather folks (ie. Magic 8-ball) shows weather being improved in the afternoon period. Rain is expected early AM and then clearing Saturday before noon and until Sunday AM. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roberts" To: "rockets northwest" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] McMinville . . . are we still on? > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Stefan Jones wrote: > >> I have a small box of rockets and motors ready to stick in the car. >> >> How likely does it look that things will pan out? >> > > Do you mean Wilsonville? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From seth.wallace at rocketmail.com Sat Mar 13 08:05:47 2010 From: seth.wallace at rocketmail.com (Seth Wallace) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:05:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Do I need a flight card for this? Message-ID: <183217.39621.qm@web65313.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> And out on pad 12 we have..... Me! ? These look like fun don't they? Supposedly going on sale to the general public later this year ? http://www.martinjetpack.com/the-martin-jetpack.aspx SW From rocketsrfun at msn.com Sat Mar 13 08:17:38 2010 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:17:38 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging Steve Cutonilli Message-ID: Paging Steve Cutonilli, please give me a jingle on my cell 503.502.8490. Don From tim_ryerse at msn.com Sat Mar 13 08:19:18 2010 From: tim_ryerse at msn.com (MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:19:18 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <00db01cac260$1e5f2000$5b1d6000$@com> References: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com>, <00db01cac260$1e5f2000$5b1d6000$@com> Message-ID: hey Fred, I'm checking on availability and frame rate of one. What's the shot of? Tim :-) > From: fred at azinger.com > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com; lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:49:00 -0800 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > Anybody got access to a high speed video camera??? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:05 AM > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > Thanks Robert, I always enjoy the humor. :) > > Probably July will be my only OROC launch this year. I think it wise to > launch this 29mm K out at the M distance like we did the 38mm L. Should > break 200g's. Skeptics are free to come watch. > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: > > All joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 inch, > 800 grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck show. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From tim_ryerse at msn.com Sat Mar 13 08:25:20 2010 From: tim_ryerse at msn.com (MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:25:20 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: What weight fiberglass and why In-Reply-To: <1078399261-1268448654-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1842098241-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1078399261-1268448654-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1842098241-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Robert - Our guest speaker from last meeting, says an isotropic layup is best, using 30? instead of the 45? you find in most of the online info. Also the more pressure the better, while vac-bag is good, higher pressures are better. Tim :-) > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com > Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 02:51:32 +0000 > Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why > > I am getting ready to do my first fiberglass work on a rocket and would like to know what y'all have done before. This is my "introductory" rocket into the J and K sizes. I am only doing tip to tip on the fins, the tubes are already glassed (purchased that way). What weight is overkill? Would more layers of a lighter weight cloth be equivalent to fewer layers of a heavier cloth(4 at 3oz vs 2 at 6oz for example)? Finally, I am wondering about the value of laying the additional layers at different angles to the first (rotated 45 deg). > Thanks > > Robert. Braibish > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Sat Mar 13 09:04:21 2010 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 09:04:21 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why In-Reply-To: <1078399261-1268448654-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1842098241-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1078399261-1268448654-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1842098241-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <003801cac2cf$3aabb1f0$b00315d0$@net> Robert, I like to use 2 - 3 layers of glass or carbon when doing tip to tip. As a result I use somewhat lighter weight fabric. I also like to use a different fabrics to break up some of the resonant frequencies - even different weights, types, and orientations of glass will do this, although not as well as a mixture of different materials. The advice on forming good fillets with a decent radius of curvature is important - 3/8" to 1" radius works well depending upon the rocket size. The initial fillet should be of a smaller radius and of high strength epoxy/filler - I often use a fingertip and don't worry about how smooth it is. The outer fillet can use microballons as part of the filler - I use them with fumed silica to give good strength, lightweight, sag resistance (the fumed silica), and moderate to sand filler. Get a good bondable surface wherever you are going to place the reinforcement. For phenolic tube, plywood, and your fillets a quick pass with 60 grit paper should be fine. For G10 and similar you need to roughen them up a bit more to get a good mechanical joint. Some people use a very coarse blade like a sawzall and the scratches are very deep. I have used 36 grit sandpaper and am moving to a piece of hacksaw blade (new) to get lots of good scratches, but not as deep as the Sawzall blade. I like to have the first layer of reinforcement go out 1/3 to 1/2 of the fin span, the 2nd layer go out further, and the last layer go out to the tip. You can also cut the inner layers short of the leading and trailing edges if those are tapered. Cutting the fabric on the bias so the tows run at a 45 degree angle to the axis of the rocket will allow it to drape better. This is really nice with stiffer fabrics like carbon fiber. Placing layers at different angles will also change the resonant frequencies of the fin as well. I like to place all of the layers at one time and then vacuum bag and heat cure, but you can do them individually. If you do them individually either apply the next layer before the first layer fully cures or rough it up a bit to get a good bond between the layers. I also like to apply a final layer over the leading the edge of the fin to keep the airflow from getting under the edges of the reinforcement. This requires a fabric that drapes fairly well like a 3 - 4 oz satin weave. Once I have all of the reinforcement in place and heat cured (2 - 4 hours at 120 - 130F for West Systems and similar) I scuff sand the surface and fill with epoxy that has been filled with microballons and a bit of fumed silica. This will fill the small valleys where one of the inner fabric layers stops. The goal is to not sand through any of the fabric when I start sanding it smooth it all out. Wet sanding on a warm day outside works best. If you dry sand be sure to protect yourself from the dust. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Braibish Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 6:52 PM To: RocketsNW Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why I am getting ready to do my first fiberglass work on a rocket and would like to know what y'all have done before. This is my "introductory" rocket into the J and K sizes. I am only doing tip to tip on the fins, the tubes are already glassed (purchased that way). What weight is overkill? Would more layers of a lighter weight cloth be equivalent to fewer layers of a heavier cloth(4 at 3oz vs 2 at 6oz for example)? Finally, I am wondering about the value of laying the additional layers at different angles to the first (rotated 45 deg). Thanks Robert. Braibish _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From glech at aol.com Sat Mar 13 10:02:22 2010 From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:02:22 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why In-Reply-To: <003801cac2cf$3aabb1f0$b00315d0$@net> References: <1078399261-1268448654-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1842098241-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <003801cac2cf$3aabb1f0$b00315d0$@net> Message-ID: <8CC90EE76BDFC20-2B1C-E926@webmail-m051.sysops.aol.com> Thanks very much for sharing your technique Marty. It's very helpful. I'm working on my 2nd fiberglassing job an Excel Plus. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL - TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Marty Weiser To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com; 'RocketsNW' Sent: Sat, Mar 13, 2010 9:04 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why Robert, I like to use 2 - 3 layers of glass or carbon when doing tip to tip. As a esult I use somewhat lighter weight fabric. I also like to use a different abrics to break up some of the resonant frequencies - even different eights, types, and orientations of glass will do this, although not as well s a mixture of different materials. The advice on forming good fillets with a decent radius of curvature is mportant - 3/8" to 1" radius works well depending upon the rocket size. he initial fillet should be of a smaller radius and of high strength poxy/filler - I often use a fingertip and don't worry about how smooth it s. The outer fillet can use microballons as part of the filler - I use hem with fumed silica to give good strength, lightweight, sag resistance the fumed silica), and moderate to sand filler. Get a good bondable surface wherever you are going to place the einforcement. For phenolic tube, plywood, and your fillets a quick pass ith 60 grit paper should be fine. For G10 and similar you need to roughen hem up a bit more to get a good mechanical joint. Some people use a very oarse blade like a sawzall and the scratches are very deep. I have used 36 rit sandpaper and am moving to a piece of hacksaw blade (new) to get lots f good scratches, but not as deep as the Sawzall blade. I like to have the first layer of reinforcement go out 1/3 to 1/2 of the fin pan, the 2nd layer go out further, and the last layer go out to the tip. ou can also cut the inner layers short of the leading and trailing edges if hose are tapered. Cutting the fabric on the bias so the tows run at a 45 egree angle to the axis of the rocket will allow it to drape better. This s really nice with stiffer fabrics like carbon fiber. Placing layers at ifferent angles will also change the resonant frequencies of the fin as ell. I like to place all of the layers at one time and then vacuum bag and heat ure, but you can do them individually. If you do them individually either pply the next layer before the first layer fully cures or rough it up a bit o get a good bond between the layers. I also like to apply a final layer ver the leading the edge of the fin to keep the airflow from getting under he edges of the reinforcement. This requires a fabric that drapes fairly ell like a 3 - 4 oz satin weave. Once I have all of the reinforcement in place and heat cured (2 - 4 hours at 20 - 130F for West Systems and similar) I scuff sand the surface and fill ith epoxy that has been filled with microballons and a bit of fumed silica. his will fill the small valleys where one of the inner fabric layers stops. he goal is to not sand through any of the fabric when I start sanding it mooth it all out. Wet sanding on a warm day outside works best. If you ry sand be sure to protect yourself from the dust. Marty -----Original Message----- rom: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] n Behalf Of Robert Braibish ent: Friday, March 12, 2010 6:52 PM o: RocketsNW ubject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why I am getting ready to do my first fiberglass work on a rocket and would like o know what y'all have done before. This is my "introductory" rocket into he J and K sizes. I am only doing tip to tip on the fins, the tubes are lready glassed (purchased that way). What weight is overkill? Would more ayers of a lighter weight cloth be equivalent to fewer layers of a heavier loth(4 at 3oz vs 2 at 6oz for example)? Finally, I am wondering about the value f laying the additional layers at different angles to the first (rotated 45 eg). hanks Robert. Braibish _______________________________________________ ockets mailing list ockets at rocketsnw.com ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ ockets mailing list ockets at rocketsnw.com ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Sat Mar 13 10:12:41 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:12:41 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why In-Reply-To: <003801cac2cf$3aabb1f0$b00315d0$@net> References: <1078399261-1268448654-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1842098241-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <003801cac2cf$3aabb1f0$b00315d0$@net> Message-ID: <009301cac2d8$c5d86c60$51894520$@com> Can't stress enough the need for good eye and breathing protection when sanding composites. The fibers that go into the air are very small and sharp and can do serious damage. In particular, small particles can get trapped in the lungs and over time do real damage. Wear a good breather and goggles. Seriously. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Marty Weiser Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:04 AM To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com; 'RocketsNW' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why Robert, I like to use 2 - 3 layers of glass or carbon when doing tip to tip. As a result I use somewhat lighter weight fabric. I also like to use a different fabrics to break up some of the resonant frequencies - even different weights, types, and orientations of glass will do this, although not as well as a mixture of different materials. The advice on forming good fillets with a decent radius of curvature is important - 3/8" to 1" radius works well depending upon the rocket size. The initial fillet should be of a smaller radius and of high strength epoxy/filler - I often use a fingertip and don't worry about how smooth it is. The outer fillet can use microballons as part of the filler - I use them with fumed silica to give good strength, lightweight, sag resistance (the fumed silica), and moderate to sand filler. Get a good bondable surface wherever you are going to place the reinforcement. For phenolic tube, plywood, and your fillets a quick pass with 60 grit paper should be fine. For G10 and similar you need to roughen them up a bit more to get a good mechanical joint. Some people use a very coarse blade like a sawzall and the scratches are very deep. I have used 36 grit sandpaper and am moving to a piece of hacksaw blade (new) to get lots of good scratches, but not as deep as the Sawzall blade. I like to have the first layer of reinforcement go out 1/3 to 1/2 of the fin span, the 2nd layer go out further, and the last layer go out to the tip. You can also cut the inner layers short of the leading and trailing edges if those are tapered. Cutting the fabric on the bias so the tows run at a 45 degree angle to the axis of the rocket will allow it to drape better. This is really nice with stiffer fabrics like carbon fiber. Placing layers at different angles will also change the resonant frequencies of the fin as well. I like to place all of the layers at one time and then vacuum bag and heat cure, but you can do them individually. If you do them individually either apply the next layer before the first layer fully cures or rough it up a bit to get a good bond between the layers. I also like to apply a final layer over the leading the edge of the fin to keep the airflow from getting under the edges of the reinforcement. This requires a fabric that drapes fairly well like a 3 - 4 oz satin weave. Once I have all of the reinforcement in place and heat cured (2 - 4 hours at 120 - 130F for West Systems and similar) I scuff sand the surface and fill with epoxy that has been filled with microballons and a bit of fumed silica. This will fill the small valleys where one of the inner fabric layers stops. The goal is to not sand through any of the fabric when I start sanding it smooth it all out. Wet sanding on a warm day outside works best. If you dry sand be sure to protect yourself from the dust. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Braibish Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 6:52 PM To: RocketsNW Subject: [RocketsNW] What weight fiberglass and why I am getting ready to do my first fiberglass work on a rocket and would like to know what y'all have done before. This is my "introductory" rocket into the J and K sizes. I am only doing tip to tip on the fins, the tubes are already glassed (purchased that way). What weight is overkill? Would more layers of a lighter weight cloth be equivalent to fewer layers of a heavier cloth(4 at 3oz vs 2 at 6oz for example)? Finally, I am wondering about the value of laying the additional layers at different angles to the first (rotated 45 deg). Thanks Robert. Braibish _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From tim_ryerse at msn.com Sat Mar 13 10:16:37 2010 From: tim_ryerse at msn.com (MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:16:37 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: <004801cac2cb$3617cec0$a2476c40$@com> References: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com>, <00db01cac260$1e5f2000$5b1d6000$@com> , <004801cac2cb$3617cec0$a2476c40$@com> Message-ID: Fred - The HD cam available to me is only 30 fps by 1/10,000 shutter. You'll need something like 60 fps. See if a shop will let you demo a camera. They let us have the one we bought for a couple days to put it through it's paces. Tim :-) > From: fred at azinger.com > To: tim_ryerse at msn.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:35:36 -0800 > > Mike's rocket pulling 200G's off the pad.... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:19 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > > hey Fred, I'm checking on availability and frame rate of one. What's the > shot of? > > Tim :-) > > > > > From: fred at azinger.com > > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com; lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; > rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:49:00 -0800 > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > > > Anybody got access to a high speed video camera??? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > > On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:05 AM > > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > > > Thanks Robert, I always enjoy the humor. :) > > > > Probably July will be my only OROC launch this year. I think it wise to > > launch this 29mm K out at the M distance like we did the 38mm L. Should > > break 200g's. Skeptics are free to come watch. > > > > Mike F. > > > > > > In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: > > > > All joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 inch, > > > 800 grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck show. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bphlat234 at comcast.net Sat Mar 13 11:40:54 2010 From: bphlat234 at comcast.net (Gary Harris) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:40:54 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: References: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com>, <00db01cac260$1e5f2000$5b1d6000$@com>, <004801cac2cb$3617cec0$a2476c40$@com> Message-ID: <23B6435916A04D5999B540C4B4425CDA@Garylaptop> I heard that casio makes one that goes 1000 fps. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:16 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > Fred - The HD cam available to me is only 30 fps by 1/10,000 shutter. > You'll need something like 60 fps. See if a shop will let you demo a > camera. They let us have the one we bought for a couple days to put it > through it's paces. > > Tim :-) > > > >> From: fred at azinger.com >> To: tim_ryerse at msn.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? >> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:35:36 -0800 >> >> Mike's rocket pulling 200G's off the pad.... >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE >> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:19 AM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? >> >> >> hey Fred, I'm checking on availability and frame rate of one. What's the >> shot of? >> >> Tim :-) >> >> >> >> > From: fred at azinger.com >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com; lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:49:00 -0800 >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? >> > >> > Anybody got access to a high speed video camera??? >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> > On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com >> > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:05 AM >> > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; >> > rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? >> > >> > Thanks Robert, I always enjoy the humor. :) >> > >> > Probably July will be my only OROC launch this year. I think it wise >> > to >> > launch this 29mm K out at the M distance like we did the 38mm L. >> > Should >> > break 200g's. Skeptics are free to come watch. >> > >> > Mike F. >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> > lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: >> > >> > All joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 >> > inch, >> >> > 800 grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck show. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sealtee at cableone.net Sat Mar 13 12:51:17 2010 From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:51:17 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch Message-ID: <000901cac2ee$ee299cf0$ca7cd6d0$@net> Michelle and I will be there! Cameron Message: 2 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:56:21 -0800 From: Carl Hamilton To: NorthWest Rocketry , WAC Members Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The first official Washington Aerospace launch of 2010 is scheduled for March 27th and 28th. That's just over two weeks from today! This launch is new to our schedule and is going to give northwest fliers an early opportunity show off what they've been working on all winter. Due to another event scheduled at the Snell Ranch, this launch will be held at the Sportsmen's Club. We will have an 8,000' AGL ceiling when flying from the race track and a 14,000' AGL limit from the away cell (if needed). I'm trying to get a rough idea of how many people will be attending this launch to determine how much (and which) GSE to haul to the site. Please let me know if you plan to attend *and* whether you plan to fly anything larger than a K or higher than 8,000'. It's likely this will be a "small" launch, which means that only a subset of our GSE will be available. If you don't tell me you are coming, I may not have the GSE you need. I hope to see you in a couple of weeks! - Carl From jhadv at pacifier.com Sat Mar 13 13:11:06 2010 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:11:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Cameras In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20100313130746.00bfec70@mail.iinet.com> At 12:00 PM 3/13/2010 -0800, you wrote: >heard that casio makes one that goes 1000 fps. Yes and no. The image field and color resolution of the Casio shrink as you go above 200 fps. The image resolution degrades as you go above like 100 fps. So yes it will do 1,000 fps but the field is very tight, the resolution low and the color non-existent. It is however very useful for looking at igniters, e-matches. pyrotechnic release mechanisms or other very fast localized events. From hmpalotakdz6 at gmail.com Sat Mar 13 14:13:36 2010 From: hmpalotakdz6 at gmail.com (JUSTYN PALMER) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:13:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] paging PORTLAND STATE UNIV. rocketry group... Message-ID: trying to reach the guys i spoke w/last fall about aquiring an "N" motor to fly their project rocket. new flying season is just around the corner & i would love to help you guys w/motors this year so things will go smoother & the motor will be THERE WHEN YOU NEED IT!!! getting ready to make my spring order to stock-up so if you guys are looking for anything in particular please let me know...especially M-N-O as they take a little more time. for now i wanted to let you guys know of a killer sale going on right now for the AT N2000W load for your casing-only a couple left at this price so please call Justyn @ 850.603.0748 or 208.639.0292 if interested in anything. sorry i can't remember the name of the guy i spoke with-but i do remember you guys needed help with getting Level 3 motors so give me a call to let me know PSU's plans for this season. thanks, Justyn Palmer TRA 11915, L3 PS-the deal on the N2000W is too good to pass up! From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 13 17:50:57 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:50:57 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Part 1; OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report Message-ID: This is part 1 of many; Keith and Tim will likely have their own reports. Wilsonville Memorial Park Launch Event March 13th, 2010 Arrived at the park at 10:45am and parked over in the Southeast parking area. Stefan Jones drove by and took his dog for a walk. Listened to NPR until I noticed clear over on the West end of the park, Mike was setting up the pads. Drove over and helped with setup. Great location this time, as wind direction used the balance of the field to the East. Between 12:00pm and 2:00pm, I did the vast majority of LCO duties. Thank you Tim Ryerse for giving a couple breaks. I was amazed at how many people were there to fly rockets. We loaded all 5 rods consistently rack after rack. It was a lot of fun. Many kids were very interested in pushing the button today. I hope they all got a chance to push the "go" button. What an amazing group of people today. Tim's count at one point was we had 68 people at the events. Guessing half were kids. Handed out tickets to all the kids for a drawing. We had about a dozen rocket kits. All kids found a home through a drawing. Congratulations to the winners. Runner ups got to get a cupcake that Mary Anne Ryerse made for the event. Hope Keith sends out the official report with the flight tally. What a great day. Had a fun time. Cheers, Robert From rnech at yahoo.com Sat Mar 13 19:44:30 2010 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:44:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] X-37B launch 19APR2010/1900PDT Message-ID: <306115.99678.qm@web111408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.space.com/news/air-force-secret-space-plane-sfn-100313.html From stefan_jones at comcast.net Sat Mar 13 21:36:41 2010 From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (Stefan Jones) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:36:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Part 1; OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report In-Reply-To: <1350437243.2641261268544968349.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1679874618.2641371268545001640.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> A great little launch! I showed up early to help set up, and waited, walked the dog, and waited . . . took a nap, and woke up to see an Easy-Up poking over the top of the hill. I had parked in the wrong lot. I didn't even know there was a lot back there. Sorry I couldn't lend a hand! The weather was remarkably cooperative. A little breezy, but folks didn't appear to be loosing many rockets. Just long walks. We got a lot of first timers. This is always good to see. Where do they here about the launch? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com, members at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 5:50:57 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Part 1; OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report This is part 1 of many; Keith and Tim will likely have their own reports. Wilsonville Memorial Park Launch Event March 13th, 2010 Arrived at the park at 10:45am and parked over in the Southeast parking area. Stefan Jones drove by and took his dog for a walk. Listened to NPR until I noticed clear over on the West end of the park, Mike was setting up the pads. Drove over and helped with setup. Great location this time, as wind direction used the balance of the field to the East. Between 12:00pm and 2:00pm, I did the vast majority of LCO duties. Thank you Tim Ryerse for giving a couple breaks. I was amazed at how many people were there to fly rockets. We loaded all 5 rods consistently rack after rack. It was a lot of fun. Many kids were very interested in pushing the button today. I hope they all got a chance to push the "go" button. What an amazing group of people today. Tim's count at one point was we had 68 people at the events. Guessing half were kids. Handed out tickets to all the kids for a drawing. We had about a dozen rocket kits. All kids found a home through a drawing. Congratulations to the winners. Runner ups got to get a cupcake that Mary Anne Ryerse made for the event. Hope Keith sends out the official report with the flight tally. What a great day. Had a fun time. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rod at whippetfield.com Sat Mar 13 22:25:52 2010 From: rod at whippetfield.com (Rod) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:25:52 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1; OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report References: Message-ID: "All kids found a home through a drawing." Interesting! Can I donate any kids for the next raffle? Rod M. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 13 22:34:14 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:34:14 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1; OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report References: Message-ID: OK Bad typing. Kits found a home. FOXNews might have a field day if we start drawing tickets for kids. ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1;OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report > "All kids found a home through a drawing." > > Interesting! > > Can I donate any kids for the next raffle? > > Rod M. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 13 23:09:29 2010 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:09:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Part 1; OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <294408.16644.qm@web110816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> What time did you guys wrap up? I had service calls in the area so I stopped by and there was nobody around. IIRC it was around 4:00 that I rolled through. It would have been good to see some of the ol' friends. Even if it was just for a few minutes. John Hornsby ________________________________ From: Robert Krausert To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 5:50:57 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Part 1; OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report This is part 1 of many; Keith and Tim will likely have their own reports. Wilsonville Memorial Park Launch Event March 13th, 2010 Arrived at the park at 10:45am and parked over in the Southeast parking area. Stefan Jones drove by and took his dog for a walk. Listened to NPR until I noticed clear over on the West end of the park, Mike was setting up the pads. Drove over and helped with setup. Great location this time, as wind direction used the balance of the field to the East. Between 12:00pm and 2:00pm, I did the vast majority of LCO duties. Thank you Tim Ryerse for giving a couple breaks. I was amazed at how many people were there to fly rockets. We loaded all 5 rods consistently rack after rack. It was a lot of fun. Many kids were very interested in pushing the button today. I hope they all got a chance to push the "go" button. What an amazing group of people today. Tim's count at one point was we had 68 people at the events. Guessing half were kids. Handed out tickets to all the kids for a drawing. We had about a dozen rocket kits. All kids found a home through a drawing. Congratulations to the winners. Runner ups got to get a cupcake that Mary Anne Ryerse made for the event. Hope Keith sends out the official report with the flight tally. What a great day. Had a fun time. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Sat Mar 13 23:24:02 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:24:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1; OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78CAE34769294F4D97CB31F5E02C5C98@Desktop> Now that's funny. When the weather keeps the rockets on the ground Robert and Rod could host their own comedy central..............LOL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: "Rod" ; Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1;OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report > OK Bad typing. Kits found a home. FOXNews might have a field day if we > start drawing tickets for kids. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rod" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:25 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1;OROC Wilsonville March 13th > Launch Report > > >> "All kids found a home through a drawing." >> >> Interesting! >> >> Can I donate any kids for the next raffle? >> >> Rod M. >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Sat Mar 13 23:37:54 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:37:54 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? In-Reply-To: References: <439fe.748726d2.38cbce40@aol.com>, <00db01cac260$1e5f2000$5b1d6000$@com> Message-ID: <1924448447-1268552357-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-881518529-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Tim, I think he was making a reference to Mike Fisher's motors to be launched in July vis-a-vis whip-lash insurance comments Robert Braibish -----Original Message----- From: "MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:19:18 To: Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? hey Fred, I'm checking on availability and frame rate of one. What's the shot of? Tim :-) > From: fred at azinger.com > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com; lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:49:00 -0800 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > Anybody got access to a high speed video camera??? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:05 AM > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? > > Thanks Robert, I always enjoy the humor. :) > > Probably July will be my only OROC launch this year. I think it wise to > launch this 29mm K out at the M distance like we did the 38mm L. Should > break 200g's. Skeptics are free to come watch. > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: > > All joking aside. Hope you join us again, and bring your latest 500 inch, > 800 grain, 38mm dart to Brothers. Always a good neck show. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Sat Mar 13 23:49:25 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:49:25 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Sunriver sale....... Message-ID: Please send this to all of your rocketry friends................. OUR March Madness SALE Model Rockets from Flis Kits, Estes,Squirrel Works - all 20% off All Madcow Rocketry Kits- 20% off Mid Power & High Power kits from PML and LOC are 15% off ( 3.9" or smaller airframes) Aerotech kits are all 20% off ------------------------------------ Monster Motors Cases- Under $250 retail, and get 12% off Order $250 RETAIL and get 15% off Order $500 RETAIL and get 20% off Order $1,000 RETAIL and get 25% off (Does not include Aerotech brand special hardware) Estes motors are all 25% off, including bulk packs Aerotech Hobby motors- A through G -all 20% off retail instant rebate on advanced orders---- Order over $250 worth of motors, get a 25% off retail instant rebate These motors can be shipped or picked up at a launch. ------------------------- All Perfectflite & Gwiz electronics are 10% off!!!!! ------------------------ Aerotech Hobby High Power reloads: So here is the deal: Order $200 retail, get a 15% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $500 retail, get a 20% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $1000 retail, get a 25% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $2500 retail, call for your instant rebate on your order.................... ( Does not apply to Aerotech cert motor special) Aerotech H and above reloads delivered either at a May launch that we attend or by special arrangement. Just think, May is just right around the corner!! No limits, so get your friends together for this great deal. Here are the rules for the sale: 1. All orders must be emailed to rocketstore at earthlink.net 2. All orders need to be prepaid, with Paypal or credit card, (cash/check for in store sales-appointment or by arrangement required) 3. Shipping is charged at our cost, no handling fee 4. Sale ends on 3/31/2010 5. Please advise that this sale applies for delivery to a April or May launch, NOT a March launch or delivery. 6. All high power motors needed to be delivered to certified flyers _________________ But wait, just one more thing. Special on Binder Design kits to be announced later...... Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From vincesimoneau at msn.com Sun Mar 14 00:33:59 2010 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 01:33:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique In-Reply-To: References: <4b4ac.45c4331e.38c9fa8c@aol.com><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59B92229@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>, <80f9fc0b7758459399bb2643d6fc3c58.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com>, <4D7DA84A7E2B4C7F9640ABFC81D99D7D@LaptopKrausert>, Message-ID: Ok one last thought .... I still use basic/stack in my plc's Vin EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:32:50 -0800 > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of Turbonique > > Tiny little mistakes like that have cost me soooooo many hours screaming > at my idiot computer! ;-) > +McG+ > > > > An escape or keypress wouldn't have worked here. This was a mainframe time > > set execution. Other than a terminal all I can tell is if routine started > > and stopped. > > > > EmplID was load record by record. But the relational table to link > > LastName > > were EmplID minus one. Records were 1 through whatever. The relational > > table > > in the database were zero through. I wrote that they EmplID and RecTabID > > must match. But if they never did, then escape routine. > > > > My problem was they did match, but IDs weren't the same. I added that part > > in case someone with the same last name worked there. > > > > The next day I added a new field LastFirstName. All was better. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Krausert, Robert" > > Cc: > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 8:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VIDEO: The Demented Rocket-Propelled Genius Of > > Turbonique > > > > > >>0 GOTO 0 > >> 1 REM The following program calculates blah blah..... ;-) > >> > >> Long ago I used to habitually insert a keyboard activated break command > >> in > >> every stinkin' loop in all my BASIC programs. Used it plenty often > >> until > >> any given program proved out. Can't do that with the Mathcad programs. > >> Fortunately, the escape key works for those! > >> > >> +McG+ > >> > >> > >>> COBOL '74 on a Honeywell mainframe. Used at the school district for > >>> payroll, grades, enrollment. One of my first applications compiled > >>> fine, > >>> had a small problem. It was a search routine, and once item is found, > >>> jump > >>> out. Easy enough. Sadly I wrote the condition wrong, thus making it > >>> impossible to ever finish the loop. Thus I brought the mainframe to its > >>> knees. The next day at work I was presented a brand new Louisville > >>> Slugger > >>> from our senior Systems Analyst. It had my name written on it and one > >>> tick > >>> mark. He said, "Don't get three." > >>> > >>> Gotta love those days. Fortunately I never got to experience punch > >>> cards. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Robert > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From brodwcjj at integrity.com Sun Mar 14 10:52:12 2010 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 12:52:12 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? Message-ID: Camera to capture one of Mike's minimum diameters in flight ? Maybe one of Harold Edgerton's strobe cameras: as used to capture this image: http://www.imaginginfo.com/images/article/1223651819757_frist2.jpg ;-) Dustin From: "Gary Harris" Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: FW: Screw Terminal (arming) Switch - sources??? I heard that casio makes one that goes 1000 fps. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Mar 14 11:05:08 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:05:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1; OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report References: <78CAE34769294F4D97CB31F5E02C5C98@Desktop> Message-ID: <03A2D502A0ED443592E80BB611673CB6@LaptopKrausert> The scary thing is "t" and "d" are not that close where I can use the excuse of bad typing. I must have been thinking kids when I typed. So, this is just one more item to the list of things Joe Bevier and Gwen Moscoe are going to razz me on. I need: 1. Spell checker 2. Grammar checker 3. "Are you sure want to say that?" checker 4. "That'll tick 'm off" checker With these checkers my message originally written as: "Effective immediately: RSO inspections prior to flight are olny required on "M" motors and above." Now reads after using checker tools: "Have a good day." Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Dunkle" To: "rockets NW list" Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1;OROC Wilsonville March 13th Launch Report > Now that's funny. When the weather keeps the rockets on the ground Robert > and Rod could host their own comedy central..............LOL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Rod" ; > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:34 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1;OROC Wilsonville March 13th > Launch Report > > >> OK Bad typing. Kits found a home. FOXNews might have a field day if we >> start drawing tickets for kids. ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rod" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Part 1;OROC Wilsonville March >> 13th Launch Report >> >> >>> "All kids found a home through a drawing." >>> >>> Interesting! >>> >>> Can I donate any kids for the next raffle? >>> >>> Rod M. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Mar 14 15:16:01 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:16:01 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Auction idea, versus a raffle (Make-a-Wish) Message-ID: OregonRocketry Question, others might be interested; We decided to create a fund raising raffle in early 2010. However OROC doesn't need to raise extra funds. By doing as a 501-C might create an issue with the IRS and Oregon secretary of state. My point is we don't have anything of big expense pending. I advise that we should cancel this raffle project, as planned. But I think we have a true opportunity to do some good. We have heard of many donations from members to this planned raffle. Bruce has done a lot of work, seeking national vendors to contribute. We are likely not done with what can pulled together. My recommendation is we hold an auction instead. Pull together all these materials and services being offered, and sell them via an auction. Gather in a place and individually auction these items off. All proceeds raised during the auction shall be donated to, Make a Wish Foundation. To raise money, donate it, and provide the opportunity for someone to make there wish come true. I can't find a more rewarding opportunity for us, and to move from just outreach to also helping those in our community. To hold a special auction event in late October or early November can be arranged. Pooling together everything donated by everyone, and holding an auction. I'll bring this up during club meetings. Raising some money towards a great charity would be extremely rewarding. Cheers, Robert From rnech at yahoo.com Sun Mar 14 17:38:29 2010 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] SpaceX says Falcon 9 rocket test fire is a success Message-ID: <796345.17785.qm@web111401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100314/sc_nm/us_space_business ? SpaceX says Falcon 9 rocket test fire is a success ? (excerpt) CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (Reuters) ? Space Exploration Technologies successfully test fired its Falcon 9 rocket this weekend, clearing a milestone toward the inaugural flight of a privately developed spaceship to fly cargo, and possibly astronauts, into orbit, the company said. ? Saturday's 3.5-second 'static' firing of the Falcon's nine kerosene and liquid oxygen-burning motors took place on a refurbished oceanside launch pad at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. It followed an earlier firing test aborted last week due to an improperly configured valve. --------------------------------------- SpaceX's latest update is dated 11MAR2010 http://www.spacex.com/updates.php ? Video of the aborted Falcon 9 static test on 9MAR2010.? Firing of the motor is at about the 1:02 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_0KqS13weI ? ? ? Liftoff of Falcon 9 is targeted for April 12, 2010 during a launch window from 8 a.m. to?12 p.m. PDT. From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Mon Mar 15 09:54:47 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (bwhitemarsh at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:54:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC March minutes, Altimeter talk In-Reply-To: <2032706317.15168831268667010323.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <678491187.15223631268672087341.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hello All: The meetings for the March WAC meeting have been posted here: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news1003.php .? There are links to the altimeter spreadsheet I handed out at the meeting and to the entire power point presentation (in PDF format) in the minutes.? They are also directly available here:? http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news.php .? Thanks, Andrew, for getting this all posted. ? I wanted to add a couple of bits on the altimeters: First, the Raven is capable of flights to 100k+. Second, I don't think I mentioned the feature of the MARSA4 altimeter called MARS Connect.? Instead of just connecting to your computer and downloading data, your MARSA4 can connect to the internet and automatically update its firmware.? It also can run an automatic diagnostic program, allowing the company to detect and fix issues with your altimeter before they become problems during flights.? As I stated in the talk, the company is currently working on two-way telemetry that should be available sometime this year.? A GPS setup with telemetry is in the works as well.? The MARSA4 is capable of flights to 40k+. Avionics bays will be discussed at the meeting in April.? Please check your e-mail regarding date and location for the April meeting as the church will not be available the first week of April during our normally scheduled meeting time.? Regards, Bryan From dale at google.com Mon Mar 15 16:12:11 2010 From: dale at google.com (Dale Woodford) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:12:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag Message-ID: <34b698161003151612i664a2d51m7a7e9df1762baf34@mail.gmail.com> I've built a rocket to obtain my Level 3 certification. It is 6" diameter G10 fiberglass airframe with a 98mm motor mount. It is a typical "three-fins and a nose cone" design. It consists of a 30" long fin can, a 48" long recovery section (with parachutes and electronics) and a 31" long 5:1 conical nose cone. Overall it is 109" long and weighs 28.7 pounds (without motor). You can find a lot more information by following this link. Construction is complete so I know exactly what it weighs. I've entered these weight values into RockSim and ran a simulation of a flight on an M1419 motor. RockSim predicts the rocket will fly to somewhat in excess of 13,000 feet. That doesn't feel seem reasonable to me. My rocket is somewhat similar to Denny Smith's L3 rocket Apparent Motion. My rocket is a few inches long and a pound or so heavier. Denny's rocket was simulated (or did) fly to about 8000 feet on an M1319 motor. The difference appears to all be related to the coefficient of drag. RockSim can estimate this value, though even the author of that program says that it can be difficult to get right. When using my model, RockSim predicts a coefficient of drag of less than 0.3 for all velocities below Mach 1. If I manually substitute a value of 0.65 and re-run the simulations then the M1419 flies to around 9000 feet, which seems more reasonable. Of course, now I wonder if I should set the Cd override to 0.65, or 0.75, or something else. I could get a simulation with practically any altitude value I wanted by adjusting Cd appropriately. But what value is right? Any advice? Thanks, Dale Woodford From dale at google.com Mon Mar 15 16:16:35 2010 From: dale at google.com (Dale Woodford) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:16:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag Message-ID: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> (Sorry for the re-post. This version has all the links that were lost in my previous post.) I've built a rocket to obtain my Level 3 certification. It is 6" diameter G10 fiberglass airframe with a 98mm motor mount. It is a typical "three-fins and a nose cone" design. It consists of a 30" long fin can, a 48" long recovery section (with parachutes and electronics) and a 31" long 5:1 conical nose cone. Overall it is 109" long and weighs 28.7 pounds (without motor). You can find a lot more information by following this link . Construction is complete so I know exactly what it weighs. I've entered these weight values into RockSim and ran a simulation of a flight on an M1419 motor. RockSim predicts the rocket will fly to somewhat in excess of 13,000 feet. That doesn't feel seem reasonable to me. My rocket is somewhat similar to Denny Smith's L3 rocket Apparent Motion. My rocket is a few inches long and a pound or so heavier. Denny's rocket was simulated (or did) fly to about 8000 feet on an M1319 motor. The difference appears to all be related to the coefficient of drag. RockSim can estimate this value, though even the author of that program says that it can be difficult to get right. When using my model, RockSim predicts a coefficient of drag of less than 0.3 for all velocities below Mach 1. If I manually substitute a value of 0.65 and re-run the simulations then the M1419 flies to around 9000 feet, which seems more reasonable. Of course, now I wonder if I should set the Cd override to 0.65, or 0.75, or something else. I could get a simulation with practically any altitude value I wanted by adjusting Cd appropriately. But what value is right? Any advice? From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Mon Mar 15 17:50:55 2010 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:50:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag In-Reply-To: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> References: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <011801cac4a2$c3fdd9e0$4bf98da0$@net> Dale, My similar length 4" rocket predicts a Cd of about 0.56 which gives reasonable agreement with flights. Keep in mind that the M1419 has nearly 15% more impulse and burns 15% longer. As a result the rocket will expend a higher fraction of its impulse at higher altitude where there is less drag. Finally, your heavier rocket may be close to the optimal coast mass. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dale Woodford Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:17 PM To: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag (Sorry for the re-post. This version has all the links that were lost in my previous post.) I've built a rocket to obtain my Level 3 certification. It is 6" diameter G10 fiberglass airframe with a 98mm motor mount. It is a typical "three-fins and a nose cone" design. It consists of a 30" long fin can, a 48" long recovery section (with parachutes and electronics) and a 31" long 5:1 conical nose cone. Overall it is 109" long and weighs 28.7 pounds (without motor). You can find a lot more information by following this link . Construction is complete so I know exactly what it weighs. I've entered these weight values into RockSim and ran a simulation of a flight on an M1419 motor. RockSim predicts the rocket will fly to somewhat in excess of 13,000 feet. That doesn't feel seem reasonable to me. My rocket is somewhat similar to Denny Smith's L3 rocket Apparent Motion. My rocket is a few inches long and a pound or so heavier. Denny's rocket was simulated (or did) fly to about 8000 feet on an M1319 motor. The difference appears to all be related to the coefficient of drag. RockSim can estimate this value, though even the author of that program says that it can be difficult to get right. When using my model, RockSim predicts a coefficient of drag of less than 0.3 for all velocities below Mach 1. If I manually substitute a value of 0.65 and re-run the simulations then the M1419 flies to around 9000 feet, which seems more reasonable. Of course, now I wonder if I should set the Cd override to 0.65, or 0.75, or something else. I could get a simulation with practically any altitude value I wanted by adjusting Cd appropriately. But what value is right? Any advice? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Mon Mar 15 18:14:53 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] New kit at Binder In-Reply-To: <011801cac4a2$c3fdd9e0$4bf98da0$@net> References: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> <011801cac4a2$c3fdd9e0$4bf98da0$@net> Message-ID: <247126.32207.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hey Y'all, I just visited Binder Design Rocketry?and noticed they have a new kit out, the "Certi-Fire". It comes with special edition decals for FITS? Clean, simple yet hansome design with some scorching hot decals! check it out! www.binderdesign.com looks pretty nice Mike! Robert Braibish From dale at google.com Mon Mar 15 18:28:26 2010 From: dale at google.com (Dale Woodford) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:28:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag In-Reply-To: <011801cac4a2$c3fdd9e0$4bf98da0$@net> References: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> <011801cac4a2$c3fdd9e0$4bf98da0$@net> Message-ID: <34b698161003151828j60fe0bd5qb69cfbdac86b3a36@mail.gmail.com> Kent said: Try running your sims on RASAero... I downloaded RASAero and did some simulations. The coefficient of drag that it predicts (for a finish with glossy paint) is virtually the same as what RockSim predicts for the same sort of finish. The estimated altitudes on an M1419 motor are within 50 feet of each other: 13120 for RockSim and 13170 for RASAero. Very interesting. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Marty Weiser wrote: > Dale, > > My similar length 4" rocket predicts a Cd of about 0.56 which gives > reasonable agreement with flights. Keep in mind that the M1419 has nearly > 15% more impulse and burns 15% longer. As a result the rocket will expend > a > higher fraction of its impulse at higher altitude where there is less drag. > Finally, your heavier rocket may be close to the optimal coast mass. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dale Woodford > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:17 PM > To: NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag > > (Sorry for the re-post. This version has all the links that were lost in my > previous post.) > > I've built a rocket to obtain my Level 3 certification. It is 6" diameter > G10 fiberglass airframe with a 98mm motor mount. It is a typical > "three-fins > and a nose cone" design. It consists of a 30" long fin can, a 48" long > recovery section (with parachutes and electronics) and a 31" long 5:1 > conical nose cone. Overall it is 109" long and weighs 28.7 pounds (without > motor). You can find a lot more information by following this > link< > http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ARX_SZqDiMAtZGpweHZmOV8xNGZrNmJqamdn& > hl=en > > > . > > Construction is complete so I know exactly what it weighs. I've entered > these weight values into RockSim and ran a simulation of a flight on an > M1419 motor. RockSim predicts the rocket will fly to somewhat in excess of > 13,000 feet. That doesn't feel seem reasonable to me. > > My rocket is somewhat similar to Denny Smith's L3 rocket Apparent > Motion. > My rocket is a few inches long and a pound or so heavier. Denny's rocket > was > simulated (or did) fly to about 8000 feet on an M1319 motor. > > The difference appears to all be related to the coefficient of drag. > RockSim > can estimate > this > value, though even the author of that program says that it can be difficult > to get > right. > When using my model, RockSim predicts a coefficient of drag of less than > 0.3 > for all velocities below Mach 1. > > If I manually substitute a value of 0.65 and re-run the simulations then > the > M1419 flies to around 9000 feet, which seems more reasonable. Of course, > now > I wonder if I should set the Cd override to 0.65, or 0.75, or something > else. I could get a simulation with practically any altitude value I wanted > by adjusting Cd appropriately. But what value is right? Any advice? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Mon Mar 15 18:34:49 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag In-Reply-To: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> References: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47931.51944.qm@web112915.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dale, though I lack the experience of many on this list, I will chime in anyhow : -) Do you have any recorded or empirical data that you could compare to rocksim (RS)?simulations as a truth check?? Different rockets different values but real data?? You may be able to truth check RS ability to estimate the Cd values that way.? You may also try adjusting the motor and the rocket weight in RS to match that of D.Smiths and see what numbers RS returns... What are the consequence of inaccurate elevation estimates??(rhetorical) I understand that for L3 certs that being able to run sims and come up with data are "required" but you have done that....? It might be worthwhile to do a few test launches with modest power motors prior to the cert flight just to get some data.? Robert Braibish ________________________________ From: Dale Woodford To: NorthWest Rocketry Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 4:16:35 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag (Sorry for the re-post. This version has all the links that were lost in my previous post.) I've built a rocket to obtain my Level 3 certification. It is 6" diameter G10 fiberglass airframe with a 98mm motor mount. It is a typical "three-fins and a nose cone" design. It consists of a 30" long fin can, a 48" long recovery section (with parachutes and electronics) and a 31" long 5:1 conical nose cone. Overall it is 109" long and weighs 28.7 pounds (without motor). You can find a lot more information by following this link . Construction is complete so I know exactly what it weighs. I've entered these weight values into RockSim and ran a simulation of a flight on an M1419 motor. RockSim predicts the rocket will fly to somewhat in excess of 13,000 feet. That doesn't feel seem reasonable to me. My rocket is somewhat similar to Denny Smith's L3 rocket Apparent Motion. My rocket is a few inches long and a pound or so heavier. Denny's rocket was simulated (or did) fly to about 8000 feet on an M1319 motor. The difference appears to all be related to the coefficient of drag. RockSim can estimate this value, though even the author of that program says that it can be difficult to get right. When using my model, RockSim predicts a coefficient of drag of less than 0.3 for all velocities below Mach 1. If I manually substitute a value of 0.65 and re-run the simulations then the M1419 flies to around 9000 feet, which seems more reasonable. Of course, now I wonder if I should set the Cd override to 0.65, or 0.75, or something else. I could get a simulation with practically any altitude value I wanted by adjusting Cd appropriately. But what value is right? Any advice? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From dmilquetost at gmail.com Mon Mar 15 21:28:23 2010 From: dmilquetost at gmail.com (D Milquetost) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:28:23 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions Message-ID: <634020221003152128h165cfe31mb137635d60d01e1d@mail.gmail.com> Hi I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the is bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking silly questions I could find answers for in a website. I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? I found Binder Design and like the rockets there. I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do I have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling experience but not really in bigger motors? Darl From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Mon Mar 15 21:37:13 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:37:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC March minutes, Altimeter talk In-Reply-To: <678491187.15223631268672087341.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <678491187.15223631268672087341.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Bryan, I really like the visual display and features of the MARS A4, so I purchased one, and we are now stocking them in the store, along with Perfectflite, ARTS2, Gwiz and Transolve. Nothing like choices!!! Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:54 AM, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net wrote: > > > > Hello All: > > > > The meetings for the March WAC meeting have been posted here: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news1003.php . There are links to the altimeter spreadsheet I handed out at the meeting and to the entire power point presentation (in PDF format) in the minutes. They are also directly available here: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news.php . Thanks, Andrew, for getting this all posted. > > > > I wanted to add a couple of bits on the altimeters: > > First, the Raven is capable of flights to 100k+. > > > > Second, I don't think I mentioned the feature of the MARSA4 altimeter called MARS Connect. Instead of just connecting to your computer and downloading data, your MARSA4 can connect to the internet and automatically update its firmware. It also can run an automatic diagnostic program, allowing the company to detect and fix issues with your altimeter before they become problems during flights. As I stated in the talk, the company is currently working on two-way telemetry that should be available sometime this year. A GPS setup with telemetry is in the works as well. The MARSA4 is capable of flights to 40k+. > > > > Avionics bays will be discussed at the meeting in April. Please check your e-mail regarding date and location for the April meeting as the church will not be available the first week of April during our normally scheduled meeting time. > > > > Regards, > > Bryan > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Mar 15 21:36:08 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:36:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions References: <634020221003152128h165cfe31mb137635d60d01e1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Darl, Welcome to rocketry. One step at a time. But whether to jump into high power? The answer is easy. Yes. Oh my, yes. This list is for you. And by all means, welcome to the fun. I'm the dumbest on the list. So ask away. Experts here can help. We all need to ask. Enjoy the ride. Join us anytime. Cheers, Robert OROC President ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Milquetost" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:28 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] questions > Hi > I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. > I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the > is > bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. > > Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! > > I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking > silly questions I could find answers for in a website. > I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? I > found Binder Design and like the rockets there. > I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do I > have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? > What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling > experience but not really in bigger motors? > > Darl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Mon Mar 15 21:45:39 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:45:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] New kit at Binder In-Reply-To: <247126.32207.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> <011801cac4a2$c3fdd9e0$4bf98da0$@net> <247126.32207.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ........... ; - ) ........... On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:14 PM, Robert Braibish wrote: > Hey Y'all, I just visited Binder Design Rocketry and noticed they have a new kit out, the "Certi-Fire". It comes with special edition decals for FITS Clean, simple yet hansome design with some scorching hot decals! > check it out! > www.binderdesign.com > > looks pretty nice Mike! > > Robert Braibish > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Mon Mar 15 22:11:26 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:11:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: <634020221003152128h165cfe31mb137635d60d01e1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <634020221003152128h165cfe31mb137635d60d01e1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Darl, first let me say welcome to the hobby. You won't be disappointed. Binder Design is a great place to get your first project from. You'll need to join either Tropoli (TRA) or the National Rocketry Organization (NRA). Links to these can be found on the net. Next build your kit. Binder rockets can fly without modification and are very good kits. Just regular hobby epoxy with some other simple building supplies all you need. Post on this list for more info on which kit and motor selection. I used a Binder Excel Plus on a I161. Nothing fancy but was a good show for a new guy. Again, post to this list for more suggestions. There is often a vendor at the big launches at that is the best way to get your first motor for certification. The good news is the flying season is about to kick off so check Rockets NW and Oroc web sites for up coming dates. Again you would want to make sure a vendor is on site and often they post to list where and when they will be and sometimes they run discounts you'll just have to check it out. Price ranges varies according to impulse (motor size). I think your best reference is the list and the club web sites. There are 3 levels of verification and they each have requirements. Go to the Tripoli web site and read requirements for level one. Post to the list or contact me with any other questions. Remember the hobby is fun and the friends you'll make and the people you meet are unique. Be patient. Learn to walk before you run. I started in 1996 and still learn new things all the time..................................................Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Milquetost" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:28 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] questions > Hi > I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. > I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the > is > bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. > > Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! > > I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking > silly questions I could find answers for in a website. > I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? I > found Binder Design and like the rockets there. > I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do I > have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? > What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling > experience but not really in bigger motors? > > Darl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From appusher at q.com Mon Mar 15 22:14:17 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 05:14:17 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag In-Reply-To: <34b698161003151612i664a2d51m7a7e9df1762baf34@mail.gmail.com> References: <34b698161003151612i664a2d51m7a7e9df1762baf34@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dale, Marty commented on optimal mass. Have you run an optimal mass calculation in RocSim? That might answer some other questions relating to high alitudes than Mike's. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:12:11 -0700 > From: dale at google.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag > > I've built a rocket to obtain my Level 3 certification. It is 6" diameter > G10 fiberglass airframe with a 98mm motor mount. It is a typical "three-fins > and a nose cone" design. It consists of a 30" long fin can, a 48" long > recovery section (with parachutes and electronics) and a 31" long 5:1 > conical nose cone. Overall it is 109" long and weighs 28.7 pounds (without > motor). You can find a lot more information by following this link. > > Construction is complete so I know exactly what it weighs. I've entered > these weight values into RockSim and ran a simulation of a flight on an > M1419 motor. RockSim predicts the rocket will fly to somewhat in excess of > 13,000 feet. That doesn't feel seem reasonable to me. > > My rocket is somewhat similar to Denny Smith's L3 rocket Apparent Motion. My > rocket is a few inches long and a pound or so heavier. Denny's rocket was > simulated (or did) fly to about 8000 feet on an M1319 motor. > > The difference appears to all be related to the coefficient of drag. RockSim > can estimate this value, though even the author of that program says that it > can be difficult to get right. When using my model, RockSim predicts a > coefficient of drag of less than 0.3 for all velocities below Mach 1. > > If I manually substitute a value of 0.65 and re-run the simulations then the > M1419 flies to around 9000 feet, which seems more reasonable. Of course, now > I wonder if I should set the Cd override to 0.65, or 0.75, or something > else. I could get a simulation with practically any altitude value I wanted > by adjusting Cd appropriately. But what value is right? Any advice? > > Thanks, > > Dale Woodford > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From stevet19759 at comcast.net Mon Mar 15 22:54:01 2010 From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:54:01 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag In-Reply-To: References: <34b698161003151612i664a2d51m7a7e9df1762baf34@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B9F1CF9.7000303@comcast.net> And realize that the "optimal mass" for maximum coast time is usually quite a bit heavier than the optimal mass for maximum altitude. Make sure that you know which one you're optimizing for! -Steve Bill Munds wrote: > Dale, > > Marty commented on optimal mass. > > Have you run an optimal mass calculation in RocSim? > > That might answer some other questions relating to high alitudes than Mike's. > > > > Bill > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:12:11 -0700 >> From: dale at google.com >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag >> >> I've built a rocket to obtain my Level 3 certification. It is 6" diameter >> G10 fiberglass airframe with a 98mm motor mount. It is a typical "three-fins >> and a nose cone" design. It consists of a 30" long fin can, a 48" long >> recovery section (with parachutes and electronics) and a 31" long 5:1 >> conical nose cone. Overall it is 109" long and weighs 28.7 pounds (without >> motor). You can find a lot more information by following this link. >> >> Construction is complete so I know exactly what it weighs. I've entered >> these weight values into RockSim and ran a simulation of a flight on an >> M1419 motor. RockSim predicts the rocket will fly to somewhat in excess of >> 13,000 feet. That doesn't feel seem reasonable to me. >> >> My rocket is somewhat similar to Denny Smith's L3 rocket Apparent Motion. My >> rocket is a few inches long and a pound or so heavier. Denny's rocket was >> simulated (or did) fly to about 8000 feet on an M1319 motor. >> >> The difference appears to all be related to the coefficient of drag. RockSim >> can estimate this value, though even the author of that program says that it >> can be difficult to get right. When using my model, RockSim predicts a >> coefficient of drag of less than 0.3 for all velocities below Mach 1. >> >> If I manually substitute a value of 0.65 and re-run the simulations then the >> M1419 flies to around 9000 feet, which seems more reasonable. Of course, now >> I wonder if I should set the Cd override to 0.65, or 0.75, or something >> else. I could get a simulation with practically any altitude value I wanted >> by adjusting Cd appropriately. But what value is right? Any advice? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dale Woodford >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From vincesimoneau at msn.com Tue Mar 16 00:06:26 2010 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:06:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: References: <634020221003152128h165cfe31mb137635d60d01e1d@mail.gmail.com>, Message-ID: Hmmmmmmmmmm......... Nice Ad EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; dmilquetost at gmail.com > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:11:26 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] questions > > Darl, first let me say welcome to the hobby. You won't be disappointed. > Binder Design is a great place to get your first project from. You'll need > to join either Tropoli (TRA) or the National Rocketry Organization (NRA). > Links to these can be found on the net. Next build your kit. Binder rockets > can fly without modification and are very good kits. Just regular hobby > epoxy with some other simple building supplies all you need. Post on this > list for more info on which kit and motor selection. I used a Binder Excel > Plus on a I161. Nothing fancy but was a good show for a new guy. Again, post > to this list for more suggestions. There is often a vendor at the big > launches at that is the best way to get your first motor for certification. > The good news is the flying season is about to kick off so check Rockets NW > and Oroc web sites for up coming dates. Again you would want to make sure a > vendor is on site and often they post to list where and when they will be > and sometimes they run discounts you'll just have to check it out. Price > ranges varies according to impulse (motor size). I think your best reference > is the list and the club web sites. There are 3 levels of verification and > they each have requirements. Go to the Tripoli web site and read > requirements for level one. Post to the list or contact me with any other > questions. Remember the hobby is fun and the friends you'll make and the > people you meet are unique. Be patient. Learn to walk before you run. I > started in 1996 and still learn new things all the > time..................................................Mark > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "D Milquetost" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:28 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] questions > > > > Hi > > I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. > > I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the > > is > > bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. > > > > Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! > > > > I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking > > silly questions I could find answers for in a website. > > I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? I > > found Binder Design and like the rockets there. > > I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do I > > have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? > > What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling > > experience but not really in bigger motors? > > > > Darl > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Mar 16 00:56:55 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag In-Reply-To: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> References: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Coefficient of drag is one of those things that is notoriously difficult to calculate accurately. It depends on a lot of factors and is highly sensitive to certain details of actual surface finish. I usually figure a Cd of 0.7 for my small rockets that I build "run of the mill." Well built rockets for altitude competition usually run 0.15 or even less(I've even seen 0.08 cited). That's really hard to achieve. Depending on your personal touch with rockets, 0.5 usually isn't a bad first guess. And of course, just to make life interesting, overall effective Cd varies with speed profile and base drag reduction from escaping delay/tracking charge gas. The good news is that with altimeter data you can extract a reasonably accurate Cd value for use on later flights. A simple empirical equation that matches NAR and TRA altitude records to +/- 20% for motors A through M in single stage rockets is: H = 1105*(I^0.402) H in feet; I is impulse in N-sec If you try to design rockets to meet these altitudes you get some very interesting surprises, especially about the required Cd. +McG+ > (Sorry for the re-post. This version has all the links that were lost in > my > previous post.) > > I've built a rocket to obtain my Level 3 certification. It is 6" diameter > G10 fiberglass airframe with a 98mm motor mount. It is a typical > "three-fins > and a nose cone" design. It consists of a 30" long fin can, a 48" long > recovery section (with parachutes and electronics) and a 31" long 5:1 > conical nose cone. Overall it is 109" long and weighs 28.7 pounds (without > motor). You can find a lot more information by following this > link > . > > Construction is complete so I know exactly what it weighs. I've entered > these weight values into RockSim and ran a simulation of a flight on an > M1419 motor. RockSim predicts the rocket will fly to somewhat in excess of > 13,000 feet. That doesn't feel seem reasonable to me. > > My rocket is somewhat similar to Denny Smith's L3 rocket Apparent > Motion. > My rocket is a few inches long and a pound or so heavier. Denny's rocket > was > simulated (or did) fly to about 8000 feet on an M1319 motor. > > The difference appears to all be related to the coefficient of drag. > RockSim > can estimate > this > value, though even the author of that program says that it can be > difficult > to get > right. > When using my model, RockSim predicts a coefficient of drag of less than > 0.3 > for all velocities below Mach 1. > > If I manually substitute a value of 0.65 and re-run the simulations then > the > M1419 flies to around 9000 feet, which seems more reasonable. Of course, > now > I wonder if I should set the Cd override to 0.65, or 0.75, or something > else. I could get a simulation with practically any altitude value I > wanted > by adjusting Cd appropriately. But what value is right? Any advice? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From absworld at cet.com Tue Mar 16 04:22:19 2010 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 04:22:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag In-Reply-To: <34b698161003151828j60fe0bd5qb69cfbdac86b3a36@mail.gmail.com> References: <34b698161003151616q318bffa3p7c21a855b3a4cb3f@mail.gmail.com> <011801cac4a2$c3fdd9e0$4bf98da0$@net> <34b698161003151828j60fe0bd5qb69cfbdac86b3a36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <034601cac4fa$f1ebf000$d5c3d000$@com> This is one 'reason' for a shakedown flight. On a new airframe, I aim for a non-aggressive first push, then back out the 'real' Cd from that flight. This has resulted in quite accurate simulations for subsequent flights. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dale Woodford Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 6:28 PM To: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag Kent said: Try running your sims on RASAero... I downloaded RASAero and did some simulations. The coefficient of drag that it predicts (for a finish with glossy paint) is virtually the same as what RockSim predicts for the same sort of finish. The estimated altitudes on an M1419 motor are within 50 feet of each other: 13120 for RockSim and 13170 for RASAero. Very interesting. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Marty Weiser wrote: > Dale, > > My similar length 4" rocket predicts a Cd of about 0.56 which gives > reasonable agreement with flights. Keep in mind that the M1419 has nearly > 15% more impulse and burns 15% longer. As a result the rocket will expend > a > higher fraction of its impulse at higher altitude where there is less drag. > Finally, your heavier rocket may be close to the optimal coast mass. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dale Woodford > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:17 PM > To: NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Calculating coefficient of drag > > (Sorry for the re-post. This version has all the links that were lost in my > previous post.) > > I've built a rocket to obtain my Level 3 certification. It is 6" diameter > G10 fiberglass airframe with a 98mm motor mount. It is a typical > "three-fins > and a nose cone" design. It consists of a 30" long fin can, a 48" long > recovery section (with parachutes and electronics) and a 31" long 5:1 > conical nose cone. Overall it is 109" long and weighs 28.7 pounds (without > motor). You can find a lot more information by following this > link< > http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ARX_SZqDiMAtZGpweHZmOV8xNGZrNmJqamdn& > hl=en > > > . > > Construction is complete so I know exactly what it weighs. I've entered > these weight values into RockSim and ran a simulation of a flight on an > M1419 motor. RockSim predicts the rocket will fly to somewhat in excess of > 13,000 feet. That doesn't feel seem reasonable to me. > > My rocket is somewhat similar to Denny Smith's L3 rocket Apparent > Motion. > My rocket is a few inches long and a pound or so heavier. Denny's rocket > was > simulated (or did) fly to about 8000 feet on an M1319 motor. > > The difference appears to all be related to the coefficient of drag. > RockSim > can estimate > this > value, though even the author of that program says that it can be difficult > to get > right. > When using my model, RockSim predicts a coefficient of drag of less than > 0.3 > for all velocities below Mach 1. > > If I manually substitute a value of 0.65 and re-run the simulations then > the > M1419 flies to around 9000 feet, which seems more reasonable. Of course, > now > I wonder if I should set the Cd override to 0.65, or 0.75, or something > else. I could get a simulation with practically any altitude value I wanted > by adjusting Cd appropriately. But what value is right? Any advice? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 16 07:35:53 2010 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:35:53 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC March minutes, Altimeter talk In-Reply-To: References: <678491187.15223631268672087341.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Will the MARS A4 fit inside a 54mm coupler tube? -------------------------------------------------- From: "robert grossfeld" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM To: "Bryan Whitemarsh" ; "nwrocketry" Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] WAC March minutes, Altimeter talk > Bryan, > > I really like the visual display and features of the MARS A4, so I > purchased one, and we are now stocking them in the store, along with > Perfectflite, ARTS2, Gwiz and Transolve. Nothing like choices!!! > > Bob > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:54 AM, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net wrote: > >> >> >> >> Hello All: >> >> >> >> The meetings for the March WAC meeting have been posted here: >> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news1003.php . There are links to the >> altimeter spreadsheet I handed out at the meeting and to the entire power >> point presentation (in PDF format) in the minutes. They are also >> directly available here: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news.php . >> Thanks, Andrew, for getting this all posted. >> >> >> >> I wanted to add a couple of bits on the altimeters: >> >> First, the Raven is capable of flights to 100k+. >> >> >> >> Second, I don't think I mentioned the feature of the MARSA4 altimeter >> called MARS Connect. Instead of just connecting to your computer and >> downloading data, your MARSA4 can connect to the internet and >> automatically update its firmware. It also can run an automatic >> diagnostic program, allowing the company to detect and fix issues with >> your altimeter before they become problems during flights. As I stated >> in the talk, the company is currently working on two-way telemetry that >> should be available sometime this year. A GPS setup with telemetry is in >> the works as well. The MARSA4 is capable of flights to 40k+. >> >> >> >> Avionics bays will be discussed at the meeting in April. Please check >> your e-mail regarding date and location for the April meeting as the >> church will not be available the first week of April during our normally >> scheduled meeting time. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Bryan >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Tue Mar 16 08:05:09 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (Bryan Whitemarsh) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:05:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC March minutes, Altimeter talk In-Reply-To: References: <678491187.15223631268672087341.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3BACE34931D849AA986D3E5245FA6958@BryanDesktop> No. My unit measures 54.6mm. You MIGHT be able to take off a little from each edge and make it fit, but it's pretty tight and I'm sure that would give you some warranty issues :) Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Jack Anderson [mailto:jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:36 AM To: robert grossfeld; Bryan Whitemarsh; nwrocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] WAC March minutes, Altimeter talk Will the MARS A4 fit inside a 54mm coupler tube? -------------------------------------------------- From: "robert grossfeld" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM To: "Bryan Whitemarsh" ; "nwrocketry" Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] WAC March minutes, Altimeter talk > Bryan, > > I really like the visual display and features of the MARS A4, so I > purchased one, and we are now stocking them in the store, along with > Perfectflite, ARTS2, Gwiz and Transolve. Nothing like choices!!! > > Bob > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:54 AM, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net wrote: > >> >> >> >> Hello All: >> >> >> >> The meetings for the March WAC meeting have been posted here: >> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news1003.php . There are links to >> the altimeter spreadsheet I handed out at the meeting and to the >> entire power point presentation (in PDF format) in the minutes. They >> are also directly available here: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news.php . >> Thanks, Andrew, for getting this all posted. >> >> >> >> I wanted to add a couple of bits on the altimeters: >> >> First, the Raven is capable of flights to 100k+. >> >> >> >> Second, I don't think I mentioned the feature of the MARSA4 altimeter >> called MARS Connect. Instead of just connecting to your computer and >> downloading data, your MARSA4 can connect to the internet and >> automatically update its firmware. It also can run an automatic >> diagnostic program, allowing the company to detect and fix issues >> with your altimeter before they become problems during flights. As I >> stated in the talk, the company is currently working on two-way >> telemetry that should be available sometime this year. A GPS setup >> with telemetry is in the works as well. The MARSA4 is capable of flights to 40k+. >> >> >> >> Avionics bays will be discussed at the meeting in April. Please >> check your e-mail regarding date and location for the April meeting >> as the church will not be available the first week of April during >> our normally scheduled meeting time. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Bryan >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From george at rachors.com Tue Mar 16 08:12:49 2010 From: george at rachors.com (George Rachor) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:12:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: References: <634020221003152128h165cfe31mb137635d60d01e1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67C3DAF3-053C-48A3-A4C0-19AF8D18F3DC@rachors.com> Not to nitpick or anything: Tripoli Rocketry Association National Association of Rocketry (NAR) NRA gets you to a different hobby... George ---------------------------------------------------------------------- George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com Hillsboro, OR http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Mar 15, 2010, at 10:11 PM, Mark Dunkle wrote: > Darl, first let me say welcome to the hobby. You won't be disappointed. Binder Design is a great place to get your first project from. You'll need to join either Tropoli (TRA) or the National Rocketry Organization (NRA). Links to these can be found on the net. Next build your kit. Binder rockets can fly without modification and are very good kits. Just regular hobby epoxy with some other simple building supplies all you need. Post on this list for more info on which kit and motor selection. I used a Binder Excel Plus on a I161. Nothing fancy but was a good show for a new guy. Again, post to this list for more suggestions. There is often a vendor at the big launches at that is the best way to get your first motor for certification. The good news is the flying season is about to kick off so check Rockets NW and Oroc web sites for up coming dates. Again you would want to make sure a vendor is on site and often they post to list where and when they will be and sometimes they run discounts you'll just have to check it out. Price ranges varies according to impulse (motor size). I think your best reference is the list and the club web sites. There are 3 levels of verification and they each have requirements. Go to the Tripoli web site and read requirements for level one. Post to the list or contact me with any other questions. Remember the hobby is fun and the friends you'll make and the people you meet are unique. Be patient. Learn to walk before you run. I started in 1996 and still learn new things all the time..................................................Mark > ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Milquetost" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:28 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] questions > > >> Hi >> I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. >> I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the is >> bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. >> >> Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! >> >> I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking >> silly questions I could find answers for in a website. >> I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? I >> found Binder Design and like the rockets there. >> I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do I >> have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? >> What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling >> experience but not really in bigger motors? >> >> Darl >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Tue Mar 16 08:51:12 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:51:12 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] questions Message-ID: <96835.73a15421.38d102f0@aol.com> Thanks for the interest. The 4" diameter kits can fly on motors H through K motors without fiberglass. Here's a tip: Lately I've been building all of the Binder Design kits with nothing but Titebond II wood glue. They come out stronger and much lighter. You may decide to use epoxy to get experience with it though. Epoxy does come in handy for forming nice fillets. For starters I'd recommend a 4" kit if you are interested in certification, or a smaller mid power kit if you want to get experience in F through G before moving to H and above. Best of luck, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 3/15/2010 9:28:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmilquetost at gmail.com writes: I found Binder Design and like the rockets there. I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do I have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling experience but not really in bigger motors? From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 16 09:12:11 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:12:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: <67C3DAF3-053C-48A3-A4C0-19AF8D18F3DC@rachors.com> References: <634020221003152128h165cfe31mb137635d60d01e1d@mail.gmail.com> <67C3DAF3-053C-48A3-A4C0-19AF8D18F3DC@rachors.com> Message-ID: <005101cac523$6ffc8db0$4ff5a910$@com> However we do have many hobbyists in both orgs! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of George Rachor Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:13 AM To: Mark Dunkle Cc: rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] questions Not to nitpick or anything: Tripoli Rocketry Association National Association of Rocketry (NAR) NRA gets you to a different hobby... George ---------------------------------------------------------------------- George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com Hillsboro, OR http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Mar 15, 2010, at 10:11 PM, Mark Dunkle wrote: > Darl, first let me say welcome to the hobby. You won't be disappointed. Binder Design is a great place to get your first project from. You'll need to join either Tropoli (TRA) or the National Rocketry Organization (NRA). Links to these can be found on the net. Next build your kit. Binder rockets can fly without modification and are very good kits. Just regular hobby epoxy with some other simple building supplies all you need. Post on this list for more info on which kit and motor selection. I used a Binder Excel Plus on a I161. Nothing fancy but was a good show for a new guy. Again, post to this list for more suggestions. There is often a vendor at the big launches at that is the best way to get your first motor for certification. The good news is the flying season is about to kick off so check Rockets NW and Oroc web sites for up coming dates. Again you would want to make sure a vendor is on site and often they post to list where and when they will be and sometimes they r un discounts you'll just have to check it out. Price ranges varies according to impulse (motor size). I think your best reference is the list and the club web sites. There are 3 levels of verification and they each have requirements. Go to the Tripoli web site and read requirements for level one. Post to the list or contact me with any other questions. Remember the hobby is fun and the friends you'll make and the people you meet are unique. Be patient. Learn to walk before you run. I started in 1996 and still learn new things all the time..................................................Mark > ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Milquetost" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:28 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] questions > > >> Hi >> I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. >> I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the is >> bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. >> >> Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! >> >> I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking >> silly questions I could find answers for in a website. >> I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? I >> found Binder Design and like the rockets there. >> I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do I >> have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? >> What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling >> experience but not really in bigger motors? >> >> Darl >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 16 09:19:46 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:19:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: <96835.73a15421.38d102f0@aol.com> References: <96835.73a15421.38d102f0@aol.com> Message-ID: <005801cac524$7efb1880$7cf14980$@com> I agree with the wood glue comment. If you are using wooden fins/rings and paper or phenolic tubes, aliphatic wood glue when used properly will form a bond that is stronger than the materials being glued. Anything more than that is a waste. And wood glue is considerably less toxic than epoxy. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:51 AM To: dmilquetost at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] questions Thanks for the interest. The 4" diameter kits can fly on motors H through K motors without fiberglass. Here's a tip: Lately I've been building all of the Binder Design kits with nothing but Titebond II wood glue. They come out stronger and much lighter. You may decide to use epoxy to get experience with it though. Epoxy does come in handy for forming nice fillets. For starters I'd recommend a 4" kit if you are interested in certification, or a smaller mid power kit if you want to get experience in F through G before moving to H and above. Best of luck, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 3/15/2010 9:28:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmilquetost at gmail.com writes: I found Binder Design and like the rockets there. I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do I have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling experience but not really in bigger motors? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Tue Mar 16 09:31:05 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:31:05 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: <67C3DAF3-053C-48A3-A4C0-19AF8D18F3DC@rachors.com> References: <634020221003152128h165cfe31mb137635d60d01e1d@mail.gmail.com><67C3DAF3-053C-48A3-A4C0-19AF8D18F3DC@rachors.com> Message-ID: <2019015017-1268757021-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-336144586-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Not if you are launching one of Fishers motors. RB -----Original Message----- From: George Rachor Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:12:49 To: Mark Dunkle Cc: rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] questions Not to nitpick or anything: Tripoli Rocketry Association National Association of Rocketry (NAR) NRA gets you to a different hobby... George ---------------------------------------------------------------------- George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com Hillsboro, OR http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Mar 15, 2010, at 10:11 PM, Mark Dunkle wrote: > Darl, first let me say welcome to the hobby. You won't be disappointed. Binder Design is a great place to get your first project from. You'll need to join either Tropoli (TRA) or the National Rocketry Organization (NRA). Links to these can be found on the net. Next build your kit. Binder rockets can fly without modification and are very good kits. Just regular hobby epoxy with some other simple building supplies all you need. Post on this list for more info on which kit and motor selection. I used a Binder Excel Plus on a I161. Nothing fancy but was a good show for a new guy. Again, post to this list for more suggestions. There is often a vendor at the big launches at that is the best way to get your first motor for certification. The good news is the flying season is about to kick off so check Rockets NW and Oroc web sites for up coming dates. Again you would want to make sure a vendor is on site and often they post to list where and when they will be and sometimes they r un discounts you'll just have to check it out. Price ranges varies according to impulse (motor size). I think your best reference is the list and the club web sites. There are 3 levels of verification and they each have requirements. Go to the Tripoli web site and read requirements for level one. Post to the list or contact me with any other questions. Remember the hobby is fun and the friends you'll make and the people you meet are unique. Be patient. Learn to walk before you run. I started in 1996 and still learn new things all the time..................................................Mark > ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Milquetost" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:28 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] questions > > >> Hi >> I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. >> I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the is >> bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. >> >> Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! >> >> I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking >> silly questions I could find answers for in a website. >> I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? I >> found Binder Design and like the rockets there. >> I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do I >> have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? >> What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling >> experience but not really in bigger motors? >> >> Darl >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Mfreptiles at aol.com Tue Mar 16 09:36:50 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:36:50 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] [AD] Official Press Release for Binder Design Message-ID: <9a268.ba84fdc.38d10da2@aol.com> Please see rocketryplanet.com for the official press release of our new kit! Rocketry Planet did a great job with what we provided them! Mike Fisher Binder Design From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Tue Mar 16 10:54:16 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:54:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: <2019015017-1268757021-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-336144586-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <634020221003152128h165cfe31mb137635d60d01e1d@mail.gmail.com> <67C3DAF3-053C-48A3-A4C0-19AF8D18F3DC@rachors.com> <2019015017-1268757021-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-336144586-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Darl Welcome to the world of High Power Rocketry. I have only one suggestion for you. I would not recommend anything in minimum diameter for you first high power rocket. I made that mistake and my first launch came back using the confetti recovery method. The rocket had issues with that well known point of travel right before transcending into mach 1 and shredded the body tube. I was lucky enough that Bob Grossfeld was there and sold me a new body tube. I already had the epoxy and Robert Krausert tossed me an adapter which I used as a coupler and I had it ready to fly again within the hour. I waited for the last launch the next day and was successfull. I agree with everyone else here that just about any 3.9" or 4" diameter kit is a great start. I would Highly suggest the new Certi Fire from WWW.binderdisigns.com mostly because binder kits are very well built but I am also a big believer of supporting locally which they are about the only rocket kit maker here in the northwest and I am lucky enough to live just 30 miles from them. If you support you local makers and vendors the hobby will grow and last longer and better. I would get any binder kit with a 54mm motor mount, an ebay/avionics bay, and a 54/38mm motor adapter. This will make it so you can fly it in both level 1 and level 2 classes and use dual deployment so you do not have to chase your rocket as far. Always take your time and enjoy the ride and do not hesitate to ask questions even stupid one may save you a shred you never know. Chris Guenther NAR L2 On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Robert Braibish wrote: > Not if you are launching one of Fishers motors. > RB > -----Original Message----- > From: George Rachor > Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:12:49 > To: Mark Dunkle > Cc: rockets NW list > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] questions > > Not to nitpick or anything: > > Tripoli Rocketry Association > National Association of Rocketry (NAR) > > NRA gets you to a different hobby... > > George > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com > Hillsboro, OR http://rachors.com > United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 2010, at 10:11 PM, Mark Dunkle wrote: > > > Darl, first let me say welcome to the hobby. You won't be disappointed. > Binder Design is a great place to get your first project from. You'll need > to join either Tropoli (TRA) or the National Rocketry Organization (NRA). > Links to these can be found on the net. Next build your kit. Binder rockets > can fly without modification and are very good kits. Just regular hobby > epoxy with some other simple building supplies all you need. Post on this > list for more info on which kit and motor selection. I used a Binder Excel > Plus on a I161. Nothing fancy but was a good show for a new guy. Again, post > to this list for more suggestions. There is often a vendor at the big > launches at that is the best way to get your first motor for certification. > The good news is the flying season is about to kick off so check Rockets NW > and Oroc web sites for up coming dates. Again you would want to make sure a > vendor is on site and often they post to list where and when they will be > and sometimes they r > un discounts you'll just have to check it out. Price ranges varies > according to impulse (motor size). I think your best reference is the list > and the club web sites. There are 3 levels of verification and they each > have requirements. Go to the Tripoli web site and read requirements for > level one. Post to the list or contact me with any other questions. Remember > the hobby is fun and the friends you'll make and the people you meet are > unique. Be patient. Learn to walk before you run. I started in 1996 and > still learn new things all the > time..................................................Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Milquetost" > > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:28 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] questions > > > > > >> Hi > >> I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. > >> I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized > the is > >> bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. > >> > >> Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! > >> > >> I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking > >> silly questions I could find answers for in a website. > >> I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? > I > >> found Binder Design and like the rockets there. > >> I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. I can do that. Do > I > >> have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger motors? > >> What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling > >> experience but not really in bigger motors? > >> > >> Darl > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Tue Mar 16 11:32:36 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:32:36 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] questions Message-ID: Correcting website address (spelling) binderdesign.com Thanks for the mention! Mike F. In a message dated 3/16/2010 11:03:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes: I agree with everyone else here that just about any 3.9" or 4" diameter kit is a great start. I would Highly suggest the new Certi Fire from WWW.binderdisigns.com From dmilquetost at gmail.com Tue Mar 16 15:03:27 2010 From: dmilquetost at gmail.com (D Milquetost) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:03:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: <501208341.15569861268716376102.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1844933093.15564831268715166505.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <501208341.15569861268716376102.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <634020221003161503p17d30622w50d78978ac4f734b@mail.gmail.com> Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm a local supporter so will go with someone that supplies locally. Bryan, thanks for the many places to look. My power is blinking on and off. I am reluctant to start the generator. I'm reluctant run the computer off it even thou I have a power filter. Internet access is the biggest deal. I only have dial up. Phone is up and down depending on what time it is. My job keeps my dance card full. I am going to get a computer design program thru the mail sometime soon but not sure which one is the best fit. Can I get past versions of Rocksim? I hear the new one has alot I don't need in it and takes up way to much space in the old timer thing they call a computer. More when the weather clears and power is not a consideration D On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:12 PM, wrote: > Darl: > > > > You crazy, crazy man! You're going to get inundated with responses from > all the geeks on this list, so I decided this geek would add his two > cents. Welcome to the Northwest and welcome to the "big boys" rocket > list! So you have some questions. Awesome! Let me give you a few answers > below: > > > > Hi > I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. > I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the > is > bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. > > Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! > > I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking > silly questions I could find answers for in a website. > I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? If > "bigger" means "F" or "G" impulse, you can get those without certification > of any type through a number of places. I like Sunriver Nature Center > http://www.rocketryshop.org/, a nonprofit in oregon run by Bob > Grossfield. His website isn't much to look at but you can e-mail him any > questions about motor pricing and he'll give you a good discount. More > local is Puget Sound Propulsion http://www.pugetsoundpropulsion.com/ from > the greater Seattle area. They usually come to the monthly meeting of the > closest club to you, Washington Aerospace. We meet in Puyallup (near > Tacoma) or in Redmond (near Bellevue) once monthly. Here's the website: > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/. We are both Tripoli Rocketry > Association (TRA) prefecture and NAR (National Association of Rocketry) > section. NAR http://nar.org/ covers all aspects of rocketry from model to > high power. There is currently a membership drive for NAR where you can get > some free stuff for joining. Tripoli http://tripoli.org/ is more focused > on high power and research rocketry. You will need to join one or the other > (or both) in order to fly rockets larger than "G" impulse. It's a good idea > to join anyway because membership gives you benefits including a $1,000,000 > insurance policy when you are launching. If you decide to join NAR, be sure > to put Section 578 as your affiliation. > > > > I found Binder Design and like the rockets there. Good find. Mike Fisher > is a local (Oregon) flier who makes nice kits with great instructions. He > is also active on the NW Rocketry list. He just put together a new kit, the > Certi-Fire, a special edition kit for the upcoming Fire in the Sky (FITS) > launch over memorial day weekend. If you want to see some big rockets and > have a ton of fun, plan on going to FITS. The Certi-Fire is designed for > those who are new into high power rocketry and is good for level 1 and 2 > certification flights. It is a basic 3FNC (three fins and a nose cone) > design, but would be a good start into high power. You must be certified > level 1 for H and I impulse, level 2 for J, K, and L impulse, and level 3 > for larger motors. Certification procedures are found at the NAR or TRA > websites. > > > I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. Not much plastic on > his kits except for nosecones. Mostly cardboard and plywood. The fins are > usually 3/16 inch plywood in his kits. Harder to work with than balsa, but > much stronger. > > > > I can do that. Do I have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger > motors? Not to start with. Save that for some later rockets. I flew my > level 2 cert flight on a binder design velociraptor, built essentially > stock, on a K550. Does just fine. > > > What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling > experience but not really in bigger motors? Depends on what you are > interested in. If you just want to fly bigger motors, it's hard to go wrong > with Mike's basic kits (the Certi-Fire is cool and would teach you a ton for > not much money). If you really want the modeler in you to be tested, you > can choose one of the more difficult binder builds, or you could try: > > > http://www.madcowrocketry.com/servlet/StoreFront (Madcow rocketry, which > has some fun kits) > > > > http://stores.whatsuphobby.com/StoreFront.bok (a general rocketry store > selling aerotech, Polecat, Madcow, and LOC/Precision rocket kits) > > > > https://blastzone.com/pml/ (Public Missiles, LTD [PML], another popular > high power company) > > > > http://www.rocketsbymelissa.com/ (LOC/Precision -- Specializing mostly in > high power rocketry) > > > > For general rocket information, you can look at > http://www.rocketryforum.com/, which is a forum for beginners to experts. > > > > To look at reviews of good kits, go to http://www.rocketreviews.com/. > > > > A couple of sites with tons of educational content are: > > > > http://apogeerockets.com/ (a Colorado-based company run by a real [and > often long-winded] rocket scientist -- lots of mid power [F and G] stuff) > > > > http://vernk.com/ ( a webpage by Vern Knowles, who is a very active > rocketeer out of spokane. One of the best high power informational sites > out there. He is a great guy who will be attending FITS. A launch with > Kate on board is not to be missed! > > > > You can also get a ton of information from asking questions on this list > and attending Washington Aerospace meetings when you have a chance. > > Hope this helps. Welcome to high power! Don't hesitate to contact me if > you have other questions. I am in the Puyallup area. There are several > experienced fliers within a few hours from you. > > > > Warm Regards, > > Bryan Whitemarsh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Tue Mar 16 16:27:30 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:27:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: <634020221003161503p17d30622w50d78978ac4f734b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1844933093.15564831268715166505.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <501208341.15569861268716376102.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <634020221003161503p17d30622w50d78978ac4f734b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Darl I would go with Rocksim for one reason, it is the most widely accepted design program. You can go to any launch anywhere and they will all accept your sims. Not as true with most other software even though there are many good ones out there like SpaceCAD. Chris Guenther NAR L2 On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:03 PM, D Milquetost wrote: > Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm a local supporter so will go with > someone that supplies locally. > Bryan, thanks for the many places to look. > My power is blinking on and off. I am reluctant to start the generator. > I'm reluctant run the computer off it even thou I have a power filter. > Internet access is the biggest deal. I only have dial up. Phone is up and > down depending on what time it is. > My job keeps my dance card full. > I am going to get a computer design program thru the mail sometime soon but > not sure which one is the best fit. > Can I get past versions of Rocksim? I hear the new one has alot I don't > need in it and takes up way to much space in the old timer thing they call > a > computer. > More when the weather clears and power is not a consideration > D > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:12 PM, wrote: > > > Darl: > > > > > > > > You crazy, crazy man! You're going to get inundated with responses from > > all the geeks on this list, so I decided this geek would add his two > > cents. Welcome to the Northwest and welcome to the "big boys" rocket > > list! So you have some questions. Awesome! Let me give you a few > answers > > below: > > > > > > > > Hi > > I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. > > I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the > > is > > bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. > > > > Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! > > > > I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking > > silly questions I could find answers for in a website. > > I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? If > > "bigger" means "F" or "G" impulse, you can get those without > certification > > of any type through a number of places. I like Sunriver Nature Center > > http://www.rocketryshop.org/, a nonprofit in oregon run by Bob > > Grossfield. His website isn't much to look at but you can e-mail him any > > questions about motor pricing and he'll give you a good discount. More > > local is Puget Sound Propulsion http://www.pugetsoundpropulsion.com/from > > the greater Seattle area. They usually come to the monthly meeting of > the > > closest club to you, Washington Aerospace. We meet in Puyallup (near > > Tacoma) or in Redmond (near Bellevue) once monthly. Here's the website: > > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/. We are both Tripoli Rocketry > > Association (TRA) prefecture and NAR (National Association of Rocketry) > > section. NAR http://nar.org/ covers all aspects of rocketry from model > to > > high power. There is currently a membership drive for NAR where you can > get > > some free stuff for joining. Tripoli http://tripoli.org/ is more > focused > > on high power and research rocketry. You will need to join one or the > other > > (or both) in order to fly rockets larger than "G" impulse. It's a good > idea > > to join anyway because membership gives you benefits including a > $1,000,000 > > insurance policy when you are launching. If you decide to join NAR, be > sure > > to put Section 578 as your affiliation. > > > > > > > > I found Binder Design and like the rockets there. Good find. Mike > Fisher > > is a local (Oregon) flier who makes nice kits with great instructions. > He > > is also active on the NW Rocketry list. He just put together a new kit, > the > > Certi-Fire, a special edition kit for the upcoming Fire in the Sky (FITS) > > launch over memorial day weekend. If you want to see some big rockets > and > > have a ton of fun, plan on going to FITS. The Certi-Fire is designed for > > those who are new into high power rocketry and is good for level 1 and 2 > > certification flights. It is a basic 3FNC (three fins and a nose cone) > > design, but would be a good start into high power. You must be certified > > level 1 for H and I impulse, level 2 for J, K, and L impulse, and level 3 > > for larger motors. Certification procedures are found at the NAR or TRA > > websites. > > > > > > I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. Not much plastic on > > his kits except for nosecones. Mostly cardboard and plywood. The fins > are > > usually 3/16 inch plywood in his kits. Harder to work with than balsa, > but > > much stronger. > > > > > > > > I can do that. Do I have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger > > motors? Not to start with. Save that for some later rockets. I flew my > > level 2 cert flight on a binder design velociraptor, built essentially > > stock, on a K550. Does just fine. > > > > > > What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling > > experience but not really in bigger motors? Depends on what you are > > interested in. If you just want to fly bigger motors, it's hard to go > wrong > > with Mike's basic kits (the Certi-Fire is cool and would teach you a ton > for > > not much money). If you really want the modeler in you to be tested, you > > can choose one of the more difficult binder builds, or you could try: > > > > > > http://www.madcowrocketry.com/servlet/StoreFront (Madcow rocketry, > which > > has some fun kits) > > > > > > > > http://stores.whatsuphobby.com/StoreFront.bok (a general rocketry store > > selling aerotech, Polecat, Madcow, and LOC/Precision rocket kits) > > > > > > > > https://blastzone.com/pml/ (Public Missiles, LTD [PML], another popular > > high power company) > > > > > > > > http://www.rocketsbymelissa.com/ (LOC/Precision -- Specializing mostly > in > > high power rocketry) > > > > > > > > For general rocket information, you can look at > > http://www.rocketryforum.com/, which is a forum for beginners to > experts. > > > > > > > > To look at reviews of good kits, go to http://www.rocketreviews.com/. > > > > > > > > A couple of sites with tons of educational content are: > > > > > > > > http://apogeerockets.com/ (a Colorado-based company run by a real [and > > often long-winded] rocket scientist -- lots of mid power [F and G] stuff) > > > > > > > > http://vernk.com/ ( a webpage by Vern Knowles, who is a very active > > rocketeer out of spokane. One of the best high power informational sites > > out there. He is a great guy who will be attending FITS. A launch with > > Kate on board is not to be missed! > > > > > > > > You can also get a ton of information from asking questions on this list > > and attending Washington Aerospace meetings when you have a chance. > > > > Hope this helps. Welcome to high power! Don't hesitate to contact me if > > you have other questions. I am in the Puyallup area. There are several > > experienced fliers within a few hours from you. > > > > > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > Bryan Whitemarsh > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From k2tsai at gmail.com Tue Mar 16 16:31:13 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:31:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: References: <1844933093.15564831268715166505.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <501208341.15569861268716376102.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <634020221003161503p17d30622w50d78978ac4f734b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7816cff1003161631r1147c7a3oe87f85ac29caab4c@mail.gmail.com> I would second this. Rocksim really is the de facto standard. That said, if you're not ready to spend on software, OpenRocket is a free program, and actually works quite well. (openrocket.sourceforge.net) - Ken On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Christopher Guenther wrote: > Darl > > I would go with Rocksim for one reason, it is the most widely accepted > design program. ?You can go to any launch anywhere and they will all accept > your sims. ?Not as true with most other software even though there are many > good ones out there like SpaceCAD. > > Chris Guenther > NAR L2 > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:03 PM, D Milquetost wrote: > >> Thanks everyone for your comments. ?I'm a local supporter so will go with >> someone that supplies locally. >> Bryan, thanks for the many places to look. >> My power is blinking on and off. ?I am reluctant to start the generator. >> I'm reluctant run the computer off it even thou I have a power filter. >> Internet access is the biggest deal. ?I only have dial up. ?Phone is up and >> down depending on what time it is. >> My job keeps my dance card full. >> I am going to get a computer design program thru the mail sometime soon but >> not sure which one is the best fit. >> Can I get past versions of Rocksim? ?I hear the new one has alot I don't >> need in it and takes up way to much space in the old timer thing they call >> a >> computer. >> More when the weather clears and power is not a consideration >> D >> >> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:12 PM, wrote: >> >> > ? Darl: >> > >> > >> > >> > You crazy, crazy man! ?You're going to get inundated with responses from >> > all the geeks on this list, so I decided this geek would add his two >> > cents. ? Welcome to the Northwest and welcome to the "big boys" rocket >> > list! ?So you have some questions. ?Awesome! ?Let me give you a few >> answers >> > below: >> > >> > >> > >> > Hi >> > I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. >> > I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized the >> > is >> > bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. >> > >> > Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! >> > >> > I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking >> > silly questions I could find answers for in a website. >> > I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? If >> > "bigger" means "F" or "G" impulse, you can get those without >> certification >> > of any type through a number of places. ?I like Sunriver Nature Center >> > http://www.rocketryshop.org/, a nonprofit in oregon run by Bob >> > Grossfield. ?His website isn't much to look at but you can e-mail him any >> > questions about motor pricing and he'll give you a good discount. ?More >> > local is Puget Sound Propulsion http://www.pugetsoundpropulsion.com/from >> > the greater Seattle area. ?They usually come to the monthly meeting of >> the >> > closest club to you, Washington Aerospace. ?We meet in Puyallup (near >> > Tacoma) or in Redmond (near Bellevue) once monthly. ?Here's the website: >> > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/. ?We are both Tripoli Rocketry >> > Association (TRA) prefecture and NAR (National Association of Rocketry) >> > section. ?NAR http://nar.org/ covers all aspects of rocketry from model >> to >> > high power. ?There is currently a membership drive for NAR where you can >> get >> > some free stuff for joining. ?Tripoli http://tripoli.org/ is more >> focused >> > on high power and research rocketry. ?You will need to join one or the >> other >> > (or both) in order to fly rockets larger than "G" impulse. ?It's a good >> idea >> > to join anyway because membership gives you benefits including a >> $1,000,000 >> > insurance policy when you are launching. ?If you decide to join NAR, be >> sure >> > to put Section 578 as your affiliation. >> > >> > >> > >> > I found Binder Design and like the rockets there. ?Good find. ?Mike >> Fisher >> > is a local (Oregon) flier who makes nice kits with great instructions. >> ?He >> > is also active on the NW Rocketry list. ?He just put together a new kit, >> the >> > Certi-Fire, a special edition kit for the upcoming Fire in the Sky (FITS) >> > launch over memorial day weekend. ?If you want to see some big rockets >> and >> > have a ton of fun, plan on going to FITS. ?The Certi-Fire is designed for >> > those who are new into high power rocketry and is good for level 1 and 2 >> > certification flights. ?It is a basic 3FNC (three fins and a nose cone) >> > design, but would be a good start into high power. ?You must be certified >> > level 1 for H and I impulse, level 2 for J, K, and L impulse, and level 3 >> > for larger motors. ?Certification procedures are found at the NAR or TRA >> > websites. >> > >> > >> > I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. ?Not much plastic on >> > his kits except for nosecones. ?Mostly cardboard and plywood. ?The fins >> are >> > usually 3/16 inch plywood in his kits. ?Harder to work with than balsa, >> but >> > much stronger. >> > >> > >> > >> > I can do that. ?Do I have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger >> > motors? ?Not to start with. ?Save that for some later rockets. ?I flew my >> > level 2 cert flight on a binder design velociraptor, built essentially >> > stock, on a K550. ?Does just fine. >> > >> > >> > What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling >> > experience but not really in bigger motors? ?Depends on what you are >> > interested in. ?If you just want to fly bigger motors, it's hard to go >> wrong >> > with Mike's basic kits (the Certi-Fire is cool and would teach you a ton >> for >> > not much money). ?If you really want the modeler in you to be tested, you >> > can choose one of the more difficult binder builds, or you could try: >> > >> > >> > http://www.madcowrocketry.com/servlet/StoreFront ?(Madcow rocketry, >> which >> > has some fun kits) >> > >> > >> > >> > http://stores.whatsuphobby.com/StoreFront.bok ?(a general rocketry store >> > selling aerotech, Polecat, Madcow, and LOC/Precision rocket kits) >> > >> > >> > >> > https://blastzone.com/pml/ (Public Missiles, LTD [PML], another popular >> > high power company) >> > >> > >> > >> > http://www.rocketsbymelissa.com/ (LOC/Precision -- Specializing mostly >> in >> > high power rocketry) >> > >> > >> > >> > For general rocket information, you can look at >> > http://www.rocketryforum.com/, which is a forum for beginners to >> experts. >> > >> > >> > >> > To look at reviews of good kits, go to http://www.rocketreviews.com/. >> > >> > >> > >> > A couple of sites with tons of educational content are: >> > >> > >> > >> > http://apogeerockets.com/ (a Colorado-based company run by a real [and >> > often long-winded] rocket scientist -- lots of mid power [F and G] stuff) >> > >> > >> > >> > http://vernk.com/ ( a webpage by Vern Knowles, who is a very active >> > rocketeer out of spokane. ?One of the best high power informational sites >> > out there. ?He is a great guy who will be attending FITS. ?A launch with >> > Kate on board is not to be missed! >> > >> > >> > >> > You can also get a ton of information from asking questions on this list >> > and attending Washington Aerospace meetings when you have a chance. >> > >> > Hope this helps. ?Welcome to high power! ?Don't hesitate to contact me if >> > you have other questions. ?I am in the Puyallup area. ?There are several >> > experienced fliers within a few hours from you. >> > >> > >> > >> > Warm Regards, >> > >> > Bryan Whitemarsh >> ?> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Mar 16 17:33:42 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:33:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... Message-ID: No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket Season!!! Duck Season!!! That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket Season has arrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light outside till 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing special. I'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However doing a point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 feet tall. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little more fun. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have materials for a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the May event at Brothers. Cheers, Robert From glech at aol.com Tue Mar 16 18:52:00 2010 From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:52:00 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how to deal with it. I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket Season!!! uck Season!!! That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket Season has rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light outside ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing special. 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However doing point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 feet all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little more un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have materials or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the May vent at Brothers. Cheers, obert ______________________________________________ ockets mailing list ockets at rocketsnw.com ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From arrsales at cox.net Tue Mar 16 19:03:14 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:03:14 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5DF63B48C1F94A439B606700E4CA36BF@apcp.local> What's fiberglassing? :-P Randall J. Ejma TRA 9577 L3 Always Ready Rocketry www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com rejma0415 at cox.net -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gary Lech Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:52 PM To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how to deal with it. I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket Season!!! uck Season!!! That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket Season has rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light outside ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing special. 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However doing point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 feet all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little more un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have materials or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the May vent at Brothers. Cheers, obert ______________________________________________ ockets mailing list ockets at rocketsnw.com ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Mfreptiles at aol.com Tue Mar 16 19:38:01 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:38:01 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... Message-ID: <26d23.5b04becf.38d19a89@aol.com> Buy the bay kit, use it instead of the coupler. :) Mike F. In a message dated 3/16/2010 6:52:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, glech at aol.com writes: I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how to deal with it. From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Tue Mar 16 19:58:06 2010 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:58:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: <5DF63B48C1F94A439B606700E4CA36BF@apcp.local> References: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> <5DF63B48C1F94A439B606700E4CA36BF@apcp.local> Message-ID: <010d01cac57d$abcec880$036c5980$@net> It's what you might consider doing to keep the fins on a min diameter Blue Tube rocket at high velocity! Would be interesting to see how a blue tube airframe does at mach 2 or better without reinforcement except for the fins. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:03 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... What's fiberglassing? :-P Randall J. Ejma TRA 9577 L3 Always Ready Rocketry www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com rejma0415 at cox.net -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gary Lech Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:52 PM To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how to deal with it. I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket Season!!! uck Season!!! That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket Season has rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light outside ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing special. 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However doing point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 feet all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little more un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have materials or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the May vent at Brothers. Cheers, obert ______________________________________________ ockets mailing list ockets at rocketsnw.com ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Mar 16 20:22:48 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:22:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... References: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <27A5666F3D6B44CEBD27CA0C71B482CB@LaptopKrausert> Very cool. Rocket Season!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Lech" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current > build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my > L2 sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass > today so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual > deployment and noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a > proper avionics bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear > from others on how to deal with it. > > I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether > to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. > I like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS > frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. > > All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. > > Cheers from ~ > Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm > Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket > Season!!! > uck Season!!! > That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket > Season has > rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light > outside > ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? > For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing > special. > 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However > doing > point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 > feet > all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little > more > un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have > materials > or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the > May > vent at Brothers. > Cheers, > obert > ______________________________________________ > ockets mailing list > ockets at rocketsnw.com > ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rocketsrfun at msn.com Tue Mar 16 20:31:37 2010 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:31:37 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Off list Message-ID: Fred A. Can you email me off list. I have a question to ask you. Don From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Tue Mar 16 20:51:45 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:51:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... References: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> <5DF63B48C1F94A439B606700E4CA36BF@apcp.local> <010d01cac57d$abcec880$036c5980$@net> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004F3@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Didn't Fisher already do that? Oh...my mistake...Fisher did Mach 3 instead of Mach 2. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Marty Weiser Sent: Tue 3/16/2010 7:58 PM To: 'Always Ready Rocketry'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... It's what you might consider doing to keep the fins on a min diameter Blue Tube rocket at high velocity! Would be interesting to see how a blue tube airframe does at mach 2 or better without reinforcement except for the fins. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:03 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... What's fiberglassing? :-P Randall J. Ejma TRA 9577 L3 Always Ready Rocketry www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com rejma0415 at cox.net -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gary Lech Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:52 PM To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how to deal with it. I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket Season!!! uck Season!!! That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket Season has rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light outside ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing special. 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However doing point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 feet all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little more un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have materials or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the May vent at Brothers. Cheers, obert ______________________________________________ ockets mailing list ockets at rocketsnw.com ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Mar 16 21:04:14 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:04:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... References: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com><5DF63B48C1F94A439B606700E4CA36BF@apcp.local><010d01cac57d$abcec880$036c5980$@net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004F3@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: I place Mike with the US Aurora flighter jet together. Zero to mach 10 by 100,000 feet and the descend for landing. Navada to Austrialia in 1 hour 45 minutes. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schurke, Peter" To: "Marty Weiser" ; "Always Ready Rocketry" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > Didn't Fisher already do that? > > Oh...my mistake...Fisher did Mach 3 instead of Mach 2. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Marty Weiser > Sent: Tue 3/16/2010 7:58 PM > To: 'Always Ready Rocketry'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > > It's what you might consider doing to keep the fins on a min diameter Blue > Tube rocket at high velocity! Would be interesting to see how a blue tube > airframe does at mach 2 or better without reinforcement except for the > fins. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:03 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > What's fiberglassing? :-P > > Randall J. Ejma > TRA 9577 L3 > Always Ready Rocketry > www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com > rejma0415 at cox.net > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Gary Lech > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:52 PM > To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current > build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my > L2 > sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass > today > so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment > and > noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics > bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on > how > to deal with it. > > I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether > to > use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I > like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS > frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. > > All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. > > Cheers from ~ > Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm > Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket > Season!!! > > uck Season!!! > That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket > Season > has > rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light > outside > > ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? > For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing > special. > 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However > doing > point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 > feet > all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little > more > un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have > materials > or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the > May > vent at Brothers. > Cheers, > obert > ______________________________________________ > ockets mailing list > ockets at rocketsnw.com > ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmrandall at gmail.com Tue Mar 16 21:00:40 2010 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:00:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: <27A5666F3D6B44CEBD27CA0C71B482CB@LaptopKrausert> References: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> <27A5666F3D6B44CEBD27CA0C71B482CB@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <6bc920e41003162100x18201c25r69932cfb9ff95c58@mail.gmail.com> As for me, I've recently built a Wildman Blackhawk 29mm and the Wildman DarkStar is currently being built. I'm finding enjoyment as of late in the 2" diameter rockets - and they fit better in the car than my group's previous 12" diameter 22' tall project. With all the 29mm reload options available - as well as those in 38mm, plenty of fun for the April Launch and for FITS. I haven't touched my Competitor 3 two-stage project in several months, but I'll have that ready to fly at FITS as well. This will be a pair of stock Competitor 3 kits merged to make a two stage version. I'm afraid it would bust the waiver on a K-1100T staging to K-185 though. It'll have to be tamed down. Dave On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Very cool. > > Rocket Season!! > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Lech" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > >> >> So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current >> build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 >> sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today >> so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and >> noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics >> bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how >> to deal with it. >> >> I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether >> to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I >> like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS >> frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. >> >> All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. >> >> Cheers from ~ >> Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm >> Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... >> >> >> No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket >> Season!!! >> uck Season!!! >> That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket >> Season has >> rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light >> outside >> ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? >> For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing >> special. >> 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However >> doing >> point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 >> feet >> all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little >> more >> un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have >> materials >> or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the >> May >> vent at Brothers. >> Cheers, >> obert >> ______________________________________________ >> ockets mailing list >> ockets at rocketsnw.com >> ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -- - Dave From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 16 21:24:40 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:24:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... Message-ID: I have the 75mm done and am just getting started on the new Fire In The Sky rocket to replace the one that died lat year. Motors are a question mark based on finances. I also have a couple of 29 kits I should get to along with some cti hw to try out. Probably not going to make the March launch, but want to hit April and FITS. Dave Randall wrote: >As for me, > >I've recently built a Wildman Blackhawk 29mm and the Wildman DarkStar >is currently being built. I'm finding enjoyment as of late in the 2" >diameter rockets - and they fit better in the car than my group's >previous 12" diameter 22' tall project. > >With all the 29mm reload options available - as well as those in 38mm, >plenty of fun for the April Launch and for FITS. I haven't touched my >Competitor 3 two-stage project in several months, but I'll have that >ready to fly at FITS as well. This will be a pair of stock Competitor >3 kits merged to make a two stage version. I'm afraid it would bust >the waiver on a K-1100T staging to K-185 though. It'll have to be >tamed down. > >Dave > >On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Robert Krausert > wrote: >> Very cool. >> >> Rocket Season!! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Lech" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... >> >> >>> >>> So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current >>> build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 >>> sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today >>> so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and >>> noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics >>> bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how >>> to deal with it. >>> >>> I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether >>> to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I >>> like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS >>> frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. >>> >>> All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. >>> >>> Cheers from ~ >>> Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... >>> >>> >>> No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket >>> Season!!! >>> uck Season!!! >>> That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket >>> Season has >>> rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light >>> outside >>> ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? >>> For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing >>> special. >>> 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However >>> doing >>> point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 >>> feet >>> all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little >>> more >>> un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have >>> materials >>> or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the >>> May >>> vent at Brothers. >>> Cheers, >>> obert >>> ______________________________________________ >>> ockets mailing list >>> ockets at rocketsnw.com >>> ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > >-- >- Dave >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Mar 17 00:01:37 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No, it's cleanup-after-winter start-on-the-garden begin-hauling-in-next-year's-firewood season. Oh, rockets. Yeah, those too... ;-) Ah yes, sanding fins outdoors breathing that good old country air full of the aroma of freshly spread cow manure on the fields all around! OTOH, maybe the rockets can wait another week.......heh. +McG+ > No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket > Season!!! Duck Season!!! > > That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket > Season has arrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being > light outside till 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being > built out there? > > For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing > special. I'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. > However doing a point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 > pounds and about 9 feet tall. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the > 75mm MMT for a little more fun. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine > GPS for tracking. Have materials for a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have > the airframe glassed in time for the May event at Brothers. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Mar 17 00:18:20 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] questions In-Reply-To: <634020221003161503p17d30622w50d78978ac4f734b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1844933093.15564831268715166505.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <501208341.15569861268716376102.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <634020221003161503p17d30622w50d78978ac4f734b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <17726353e12a05225dd4105c7de54267.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Darl, Looks like you're even farther out in the sticks than me! The slow-drip end of the internet, one channel of "new and improved" digital television that's actually tolerably watchable about 85-90% of the time, and always a wary eye on the weather to guess if it's safe to use the computer. Oh, and a 'new' computer(read, second-hand or ultra-cheap on sale) every decade or so whether you need one or not.... Sounds familiar! The urban folks don't understand that it's not having internet access go down that's a problem(Oh no! The internet is down! We're all gonna die!)--it's when the pump quits working(and hence also the toilets) that things get unbearable real fast. :) Different worlds. +McG+ > Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm a local supporter so will go with > someone that supplies locally. > Bryan, thanks for the many places to look. > My power is blinking on and off. I am reluctant to start the generator. > I'm reluctant run the computer off it even thou I have a power filter. > Internet access is the biggest deal. I only have dial up. Phone is up > and > down depending on what time it is. > My job keeps my dance card full. > I am going to get a computer design program thru the mail sometime soon > but > not sure which one is the best fit. > Can I get past versions of Rocksim? I hear the new one has alot I don't > need in it and takes up way to much space in the old timer thing they call > a > computer. > More when the weather clears and power is not a consideration > D > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:12 PM, wrote: > >> Darl: >> >> >> >> You crazy, crazy man! You're going to get inundated with responses from >> all the geeks on this list, so I decided this geek would add his two >> cents. Welcome to the Northwest and welcome to the "big boys" rocket >> list! So you have some questions. Awesome! Let me give you a few >> answers >> below: >> >> >> >> Hi >> I'm new to the area and just ran across Norhtwest Rocketry site. >> I have been launching models since I was in grade school and realized >> the >> is >> bigger rocket motors than an Estes E9. >> >> Ebays, Altimeters, Glassing, mach speed.....oh my! >> >> I am still researching website info before I get too carried away asking >> silly questions I could find answers for in a website. >> I live in Bellingham and wanted to know where I can get bigger motors? >> If >> "bigger" means "F" or "G" impulse, you can get those without >> certification >> of any type through a number of places. I like Sunriver Nature Center >> http://www.rocketryshop.org/, a nonprofit in oregon run by Bob >> Grossfield. His website isn't much to look at but you can e-mail him >> any >> questions about motor pricing and he'll give you a good discount. More >> local is Puget Sound Propulsion http://www.pugetsoundpropulsion.com/ >> from >> the greater Seattle area. They usually come to the monthly meeting of >> the >> closest club to you, Washington Aerospace. We meet in Puyallup (near >> Tacoma) or in Redmond (near Bellevue) once monthly. Here's the website: >> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/. We are both Tripoli Rocketry >> Association (TRA) prefecture and NAR (National Association of Rocketry) >> section. NAR http://nar.org/ covers all aspects of rocketry from model >> to >> high power. There is currently a membership drive for NAR where you can >> get >> some free stuff for joining. Tripoli http://tripoli.org/ is more >> focused >> on high power and research rocketry. You will need to join one or the >> other >> (or both) in order to fly rockets larger than "G" impulse. It's a good >> idea >> to join anyway because membership gives you benefits including a >> $1,000,000 >> insurance policy when you are launching. If you decide to join NAR, be >> sure >> to put Section 578 as your affiliation. >> >> >> >> I found Binder Design and like the rockets there. Good find. Mike >> Fisher >> is a local (Oregon) flier who makes nice kits with great instructions. >> He >> is also active on the NW Rocketry list. He just put together a new kit, >> the >> Certi-Fire, a special edition kit for the upcoming Fire in the Sky >> (FITS) >> launch over memorial day weekend. If you want to see some big rockets >> and >> have a ton of fun, plan on going to FITS. The Certi-Fire is designed >> for >> those who are new into high power rocketry and is good for level 1 and 2 >> certification flights. It is a basic 3FNC (three fins and a nose cone) >> design, but would be a good start into high power. You must be >> certified >> level 1 for H and I impulse, level 2 for J, K, and L impulse, and level >> 3 >> for larger motors. Certification procedures are found at the NAR or TRA >> websites. >> >> >> I see that the kits there are cardboard and plastic. Not much plastic >> on >> his kits except for nosecones. Mostly cardboard and plywood. The fins >> are >> usually 3/16 inch plywood in his kits. Harder to work with than balsa, >> but >> much stronger. >> >> >> >> I can do that. Do I have to fiberglass a cardboard kit for the bigger >> motors? Not to start with. Save that for some later rockets. I flew >> my >> level 2 cert flight on a binder design velociraptor, built essentially >> stock, on a K550. Does just fine. >> >> >> What would a first rocket in high power for someone that has modeling >> experience but not really in bigger motors? Depends on what you are >> interested in. If you just want to fly bigger motors, it's hard to go >> wrong >> with Mike's basic kits (the Certi-Fire is cool and would teach you a ton >> for >> not much money). If you really want the modeler in you to be tested, >> you >> can choose one of the more difficult binder builds, or you could try: >> >> >> http://www.madcowrocketry.com/servlet/StoreFront (Madcow rocketry, >> which >> has some fun kits) >> >> >> >> http://stores.whatsuphobby.com/StoreFront.bok (a general rocketry store >> selling aerotech, Polecat, Madcow, and LOC/Precision rocket kits) >> >> >> >> https://blastzone.com/pml/ (Public Missiles, LTD [PML], another popular >> high power company) >> >> >> >> http://www.rocketsbymelissa.com/ (LOC/Precision -- Specializing mostly >> in >> high power rocketry) >> >> >> >> For general rocket information, you can look at >> http://www.rocketryforum.com/, which is a forum for beginners to >> experts. >> >> >> >> To look at reviews of good kits, go to http://www.rocketreviews.com/. >> >> >> >> A couple of sites with tons of educational content are: >> >> >> >> http://apogeerockets.com/ (a Colorado-based company run by a real [and >> often long-winded] rocket scientist -- lots of mid power [F and G] >> stuff) >> >> >> >> http://vernk.com/ ( a webpage by Vern Knowles, who is a very active >> rocketeer out of spokane. One of the best high power informational >> sites >> out there. He is a great guy who will be attending FITS. A launch with >> Kate on board is not to be missed! >> >> >> >> You can also get a ton of information from asking questions on this list >> and attending Washington Aerospace meetings when you have a chance. >> >> Hope this helps. Welcome to high power! Don't hesitate to contact me >> if >> you have other questions. I am in the Puyallup area. There are several >> experienced fliers within a few hours from you. >> >> >> >> Warm Regards, >> >> Bryan Whitemarsh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From arrsales at cox.net Wed Mar 17 04:24:04 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:24:04 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: <010d01cac57d$abcec880$036c5980$@net> References: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> <5DF63B48C1F94A439B606700E4CA36BF@apcp.local> <010d01cac57d$abcec880$036c5980$@net> Message-ID: <8EBC891964DF410AA138B11E16F649F8@apcp.local> Mike Fisher's been there done that. One fin ripped off and the airframe was JUST starting to delaminate as it got close to mach 3. (Mike? Correct me?) Not bad for a "paper tube".. Our prefect at TTRA flew his 2.6 inch BT rocket on a 54mm J1299, didn't go mach, but it did hit 47g's. We're gonna try the J1999 Saturday. Should be close to 80 g's. I'm too lazy to fg.. :) -----Original Message----- From: Marty Weiser [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:58 PM To: 'Always Ready Rocketry'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... It's what you might consider doing to keep the fins on a min diameter Blue Tube rocket at high velocity! Would be interesting to see how a blue tube airframe does at mach 2 or better without reinforcement except for the fins. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:03 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... What's fiberglassing? :-P Randall J. Ejma TRA 9577 L3 Always Ready Rocketry www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com rejma0415 at cox.net -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gary Lech Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:52 PM To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how to deal with it. I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket Season!!! uck Season!!! That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket Season has rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light outside ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing special. 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However doing point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 feet all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little more un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have materials or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the May vent at Brothers. Cheers, obert ______________________________________________ ockets mailing list ockets at rocketsnw.com ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From arrsales at cox.net Wed Mar 17 04:25:42 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:25:42 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: References: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com><5DF63B48C1F94A439B606700E4CA36BF@apcp.local><010d01cac57d$abcec880$036c5980$@net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3004F3@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <14932C626B424645AA51536DEEB357E6@apcp.local> All done w/ a 29mm Q motor on his back. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:04 AM To: Schurke, Peter; Marty Weiser; Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... I place Mike with the US Aurora flighter jet together. Zero to mach 10 by 100,000 feet and the descend for landing. Navada to Austrialia in 1 hour 45 minutes. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schurke, Peter" To: "Marty Weiser" ; "Always Ready Rocketry" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > Didn't Fisher already do that? > > Oh...my mistake...Fisher did Mach 3 instead of Mach 2. > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Marty Weiser > Sent: Tue 3/16/2010 7:58 PM > To: 'Always Ready Rocketry'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > > It's what you might consider doing to keep the fins on a min diameter Blue > Tube rocket at high velocity! Would be interesting to see how a blue tube > airframe does at mach 2 or better without reinforcement except for the > fins. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:03 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > What's fiberglassing? :-P > > Randall J. Ejma > TRA 9577 L3 > Always Ready Rocketry > www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com > rejma0415 at cox.net > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Gary Lech > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:52 PM > To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current > build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my > L2 > sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass > today > so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment > and > noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics > bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on > how > to deal with it. > > I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether > to > use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I > like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS > frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. > > All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. > > Cheers from ~ > Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm > Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket > Season!!! > > uck Season!!! > That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket > Season > has > rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light > outside > > ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? > For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing > special. > 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However > doing > point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 > feet > all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little > more > un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have > materials > or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the > May > vent at Brothers. > Cheers, > obert > ______________________________________________ > ockets mailing list > ockets at rocketsnw.com > ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 17 06:02:55 2010 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:02:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> References: , <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Gary, use the coupler as the E-bay. I (and others) have used it with success. My Excell + has had many K flights and no 'glass anywhere. Your mileage may vary. :) Mark Lyons > To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:52:00 -0400 > From: glech at aol.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how to deal with it. > > I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. > > All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. > > Cheers from ~ > Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm > Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > > No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket Season!!! > uck Season!!! > That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket Season has > rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light outside > ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? > For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing special. > 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However doing > point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 feet > all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little more > un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have materials > or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the May > vent at Brothers. > Cheers, > obert > ______________________________________________ > ockets mailing list > ockets at rocketsnw.com > ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 From absworld at cet.com Wed Mar 17 08:46:15 2010 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:46:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: <6bc920e41003162100x18201c25r69932cfb9ff95c58@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CC938B91AA0453-1828-B2B7@webmail-d100.sysops.aol.com> <27A5666F3D6B44CEBD27CA0C71B482CB@LaptopKrausert> <6bc920e41003162100x18201c25r69932cfb9ff95c58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008301cac5e8$fbb57c20$f3207460$@com> I'm going to work on converting my Alphabet ladder into an alphabetree. Still all minimum diameter fiberglass(ed) airframes but attempting some various pushes. I re-built my 29mm bird to put the avionics directly on top of the motor (instead of just below the N/C) with hopes of straightening out the embarrassing corkscrew that marked the original G-H rungs on my ladder. Several 'branches' slated for the 54mm level (I - K impulse). A new(er) and improved(er) 75mm fin can for attempt #3 at the M-rung. I'm also going to attempt my first ever cluster with 3 D-12's catapulting a central BT-55 dual deploy airframe with a 32mm G12 pushing. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:01 PM To: Robert Krausert Cc: Rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... As for me, I've recently built a Wildman Blackhawk 29mm and the Wildman DarkStar is currently being built. I'm finding enjoyment as of late in the 2" diameter rockets - and they fit better in the car than my group's previous 12" diameter 22' tall project. With all the 29mm reload options available - as well as those in 38mm, plenty of fun for the April Launch and for FITS. I haven't touched my Competitor 3 two-stage project in several months, but I'll have that ready to fly at FITS as well. This will be a pair of stock Competitor 3 kits merged to make a two stage version. I'm afraid it would bust the waiver on a K-1100T staging to K-185 though. It'll have to be tamed down. Dave On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Very cool. > > Rocket Season!! > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Lech" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > >> >> So I guess your e-mail is an open invitation to talk about our current >> build. I'm working on a Binder Excel Plus that I'm planning to use for my L2 >> sometime this year possibly at LDRS. I just cut out all the fiberglass today >> so I'll be laying it up this week. I was planning to use dual deployment and >> noticed that the stock kit is not really equipped with a proper avionics >> bay. It comes with just a payload bay so I'd like to hear from others on how >> to deal with it. >> >> I'm also planning on using a BeeLine and am on the fence deciding whether >> to use the new high power 2M or going with the tried and true 70cm model. I >> like the 2M model since I could also use it on the traditional APRS >> frequency. I also haven't decided on an alitimeter yet. >> >> All replies, suggestions, and recommendations on or off list are welcome. >> >> Cheers from ~ >> Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Sent: Tue, Mar 16, 2010 5:33 pm >> Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... >> >> >> No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket >> Season!!! >> uck Season!!! >> That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket >> Season has >> rrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light >> outside >> ill 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? >> For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing >> special. >> 'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However >> doing >> point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 >> feet >> all. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little >> more >> un. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have >> materials >> or a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the >> May >> vent at Brothers. >> Cheers, >> obert >> ______________________________________________ >> ockets mailing list >> ockets at rocketsnw.com >> ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Wed Mar 17 08:55:17 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:55:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] "New" altimeter, any experience? Message-ID: <009401cac5ea$3e0737c0$ba15a740$@Dennis42@comcast.net> I found it here: http://www.apogeerockets.com/entacore_aim_usb.asp and searched the web and found it also here: http://www.entacore.com/index.php?d=electronics Anyone used it? Any thoughts based on its specs vs. the great set of info presented by Bryan Whitemarsh at the last WAC meeting. - http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/docs/altimeter_overview_100307.pdf http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/docs/altimeter_comparison_100307.pdf Thanks, Michael From k2tsai at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 09:14:52 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:14:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] "New" altimeter, any experience? In-Reply-To: <1393963825691936347@unknownmsgid> References: <1393963825691936347@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <7816cff1003170914o763c33c5w1f1b957efa99dac8@mail.gmail.com> I have one. I have not had a chance to fly it yet. I'll probably try it out at the March Mansfield launch. It's a nice unit. It does fit in a 29mm frame. 2 outputs, barometric only. All the software is in metric units, so setting the main deploy to 750 is actually pretty high if you're not paying attention. You can opt to have the beep out altitude in imperial. Entacore sells direct on eBay on periodically. I was able to pick mine up for $90 that way. For the standard retail price of $115, I'd be hard pressed to not to spend the extra $35 for the Featherweight Raven, which gives you an extra 2 outputs and an accelerometer in addition to the baro. A nice feature is the flight playback. You can load a flight in the software, and it will playback the flight through the altimeter. You can use LEDs connected to the outputs and watch them flash during playback. Cheers, - Ken On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Michael Dennis wrote: > I found it here: http://www.apogeerockets.com/entacore_aim_usb.asp and > searched the web and found it also here: > http://www.entacore.com/index.php?d=electronics > > > > Anyone used it? ?Any thoughts based on its specs vs. the great set of info > presented by Bryan Whitemarsh at the last WAC meeting. - > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/docs/altimeter_overview_100307.pdf > > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/docs/altimeter_comparison_100307.pdf > > > > Thanks, > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From gbrandt at nwic.edu Wed Mar 17 09:08:31 2010 From: gbrandt at nwic.edu (Gary Brandt) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:08:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] RDAS-Tiny Message-ID: <28824CE077894D418D44F35AF6CE8C160229E133@dolphin.nwic.edu> Hi All, newbie here. We have an RDAS-Tiny and have yet to use it, in fact have yet to fire an HPR. Our first "G" launch is planned for April 5th on the Lummi Indian Nation Reservation near Bellingham, WA. So, has any one used an RDAS-Tiny and if so, any hints? Thanks in advance, Gary __________________________________________________ Gary L. Brandt Northwest Indian College Faculty Computers/Robotics/Space Center blogs.nwic.edu/spacecenter 360-392-4318 From k2tsai at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 09:27:17 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:27:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Trackers (Radio/GPS) Message-ID: <7816cff1003170927o4d61327du4b636519551b18e9@mail.gmail.com> How high are you willing to fly without some kind of tracker? It looks like the tracker I ordered won't get here in time for the the 3/27 Mansfield launch. One of the rockets I'm planning to bring out currently sims to ~7000' on full I motors, and I'm more than a little hesitant to risk it without a tracker. Cheers, - Ken From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Wed Mar 17 09:53:04 2010 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:53:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Trackers (Radio/GPS) In-Reply-To: <7816cff1003170927o4d61327du4b636519551b18e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <7816cff1003170927o4d61327du4b636519551b18e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006601cac5f2$556e2600$004a7200$@net> Ken - I have a lost rocket in Montana that was only going to get to 7 kft so I didn't bother with the tracker (the previous flights were much higher). It also depends upon the size of the rocket. 7 kft on an I motor is a fairly rocket small, while 7 kft on an N is normally much easier rocket to track visually. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Ken Tsai Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:27 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Trackers (Radio/GPS) How high are you willing to fly without some kind of tracker? It looks like the tracker I ordered won't get here in time for the the 3/27 Mansfield launch. One of the rockets I'm planning to bring out currently sims to ~7000' on full I motors, and I'm more than a little hesitant to risk it without a tracker. Cheers, - Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From k2tsai at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 10:01:42 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:01:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Trackers (Radio/GPS) In-Reply-To: <006601cac5f2$556e2600$004a7200$@net> References: <7816cff1003170927o4d61327du4b636519551b18e9@mail.gmail.com> <006601cac5f2$556e2600$004a7200$@net> Message-ID: <7816cff1003171001t6fdae6cal28d1e420631ef51e@mail.gmail.com> The rocket is not quite 6' tall. 54mm airframe, 38mm motor. So, yes, quite small. - Ken On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Marty Weiser wrote: > Ken - I have a lost rocket in Montana that was only going to get to 7 kft so > I didn't bother with the tracker (the previous flights were much higher). > It also depends upon the size of the rocket. ?7 kft on an I motor is a > fairly rocket small, while 7 kft on an N is normally much easier rocket to > track visually. - Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Ken Tsai > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:27 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Trackers (Radio/GPS) > > How high are you willing to fly without some kind of tracker? > > It looks like the tracker I ordered won't get here in time for the the > 3/27 Mansfield launch. ?One of the rockets I'm planning to bring out > currently sims to ~7000' on full I motors, and I'm more than a little > hesitant to risk it without a tracker. > > Cheers, > ?- Ken > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From absworld at cet.com Wed Mar 17 10:03:11 2010 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:03:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Trackers (Radio/GPS) In-Reply-To: <7816cff1003170927o4d61327du4b636519551b18e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <7816cff1003170927o4d61327du4b636519551b18e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00af01cac5f3$bb330bd0$31992370$@com> 38mm at 7K' is going to be a challenge to maintain visual tracking (though certainly not unheard of). A lot depends on the weather at the time. Clear skies are always an advantage....duh ;-) Low angle lighting makes for easier tracking. Steady (but light) breeze helps to define downrange (as opposed to the 360 degree 'wonder where it went' scenario). Always helps to have as many pairs of eyes assisting with the tracking effort. I find it surprising how well I track other folks rockets, but consistently lose sight of my own. I've never regretted having an RF tracker in any rocket I've recovered. I have regretted hanging a $5 rocket with a $200 tracker in a tree. I have regretting loosing an extra $200 when a rocket with a tracker came in ballistic. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Ken Tsai Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:27 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Trackers (Radio/GPS) How high are you willing to fly without some kind of tracker? It looks like the tracker I ordered won't get here in time for the the 3/27 Mansfield launch. One of the rockets I'm planning to bring out currently sims to ~7000' on full I motors, and I'm more than a little hesitant to risk it without a tracker. Cheers, - Ken _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at bigredbee.com Wed Mar 17 10:09:01 2010 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:09:01 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Trackers (Radio/GPS) In-Reply-To: <00af01cac5f3$bb330bd0$31992370$@com> References: <7816cff1003170927o4d61327du4b636519551b18e9@mail.gmail.com> <00af01cac5f3$bb330bd0$31992370$@com> Message-ID: Ken, I have trackers in stock, and can ship ASAP -- Greg > How high are you willing to fly without some kind of tracker? > > It looks like the tracker I ordered won't get here in time for the the > 3/27 Mansfield launch. One of the rockets I'm planning to bring out > currently sims to ~7000' on full I motors, and I'm more than a little > hesitant to risk it without a tracker. > > Cheers, > - Ken > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Wed Mar 17 10:42:08 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (Bryan Whitemarsh) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:42:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] RDAS-Tiny In-Reply-To: <28824CE077894D418D44F35AF6CE8C160229E133@dolphin.nwic.edu> References: <28824CE077894D418D44F35AF6CE8C160229E133@dolphin.nwic.edu> Message-ID: <1989F552ADE041B7976C49D9521B0C4A@BryanDesktop> Hi Gary: I have an R-DAS tiny. Nice unit. A couple of things I would consider: First, give yourself plenty of time to figure the thing out and wire it. It works well, but the disadvantage of the wire loom it comes with is that you have to actually shunt unused pyro outputs through resistors to make it work properly. This requires soldering and a fair amount of organization of wires. Because of this hassle, I purchased several of the wiring harnesses and have one set up in each AV bay. That way, I can just screw the R-DAS down and attach the harness. You can get extra harnesses from Wildman or from the manufacturer in the Netherlands. They are cheap and well worth the price to avoid moving the harnesses from rocket to rocket. Second, ground test everything. Test your e-matches and your charges (if you use them). There are instructions for how to ground test your e-matches in the R-DAS manual. Third, make sure you pay attention to which end goes up. Seems simple, but if you put it in upside-down, you won't get useful data and it will not trigger ejection charges. Finally, as with all altimeters, the R-DAS is very susceptible to corrosion from ejection charge gasses. Make sure your AV bay is as sealed off from ejection gasses as possible. Hope that helps, Bryan Whitemarsh -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brandt Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:09 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] RDAS-Tiny Hi All, newbie here. We have an RDAS-Tiny and have yet to use it, in fact have yet to fire an HPR. Our first "G" launch is planned for April 5th on the Lummi Indian Nation Reservation near Bellingham, WA. So, has any one used an RDAS-Tiny and if so, any hints? Thanks in advance, Gary __________________________________________________ Gary L. Brandt Northwest Indian College Faculty Computers/Robotics/Space Center blogs.nwic.edu/spacecenter 360-392-4318 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 13:38:57 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:38:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? Message-ID: Correct me if I am wrong and before I head out to Tap Plastics, but did someone mention a few months back they carried Milled Fiber? Chris Guenther From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Wed Mar 17 13:50:22 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (bwhitemarsh at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:50:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <130948365.16296121268859022583.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Mike Fisher usually has milled fiberglass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Guenther" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:38:57 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? Correct me if I am wrong and before I head out to Tap Plastics, but did someone mention a few months back they carried Milled Fiber? Chris Guenther _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Wed Mar 17 13:59:19 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:59:19 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? Message-ID: <101296566-1268859586-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1245891382-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> They do have chopped fiberglass...and a phone ------Original Message------ From: Christopher Guenther Sender: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com To: RocketsNW Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? Sent: Mar 17, 2010 13:38 Correct me if I am wrong and before I head out to Tap Plastics, but did someone mention a few months back they carried Milled Fiber? Chris Guenther _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 14:02:42 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:02:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? In-Reply-To: <101296566-1268859586-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1245891382-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <101296566-1268859586-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1245891382-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Thank you. I do know they have a phone but I got my answer here much faster then trying to look them up as I was already digging through my email at the time. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Robert Braibish wrote: > They do have chopped fiberglass...and a phone > ------Original Message------ > From: Christopher Guenther > Sender: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > To: RocketsNW > Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? > Sent: Mar 17, 2010 13:38 > > Correct me if I am wrong and before I head out to Tap Plastics, but did > someone mention a few months back they carried Milled Fiber? > > Chris Guenther > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Wed Mar 17 15:31:21 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT]Re: Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? In-Reply-To: References: <101296566-1268859586-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1245891382-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <737396.58821.qm@web112906.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Sorry if that sounded curt Christopher. Sometimes my sarcasm does not "translate" well into emails.? I have no ill will or intent. Robert ________________________________ From: Christopher Guenther To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com Cc: RocketsNW Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 2:02:42 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? Thank you.? I do know they have a phone but I got my answer here much faster then trying to look them up as I was already digging through my email at the time. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Robert Braibish wrote: They do have chopped fiberglass...and a phone > >------Original Message------ >From: Christopher Guenther > >Sender: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >To: RocketsNW >Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? > >Sent: Mar 17, 2010 13:38 > >Correct me if I am wrong and before I head out to Tap Plastics, but did >someone mention a few months back they carried Milled Fiber? > >Chris Guenther >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > From t.j.doll at att.net Wed Mar 17 16:10:52 2010 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:10:52 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... Message-ID: <031720102310.9691.4BA1617C00034BFF000025DB22243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> I thought it was "wabbit" season :-) Several new projects - finished a 38mm Crayon rocket. I have a 1.6x Mars Lander under construction, along with 1/12 scale Mercury Redstone (38mm mount) - I hope to have both finished in time for FITS. I'm starting to play with electronics, and I'm just about ready to start painting an Estes 1/100 Saturn V modified for a five engine cluster (29mm center surrounded by four 18mm) and electronic ejection (just in case the center motor doesn't light) backed up by motor ejection. I plan to head to both LDRS and NARAM this year - LDRS won't require anything 'special' but I'll need to build some specialized rockets for the NARAM competitions. BTW, anyone have a small adjistable tower launcher I can borrow for NARAM? Tim From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Wed Mar 17 16:21:42 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:21:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: <031720102310.9691.4BA1617C00034BFF000025DB22243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <031720102310.9691.4BA1617C00034BFF000025DB22243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Tim, I for one would like to hear more about your Saturn V project. I've been toying with the idea of doing something similar. -brad > From: t.j.doll at att.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:10:52 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... > > I thought it was "wabbit" season :-) > > Several new projects - finished a 38mm Crayon rocket. I have a 1.6x Mars Lander under construction, along with 1/12 scale Mercury Redstone (38mm mount) - I hope to have both finished in time for FITS. I'm starting to play with electronics, and I'm just about ready to start painting an Estes 1/100 Saturn V modified for a five engine cluster (29mm center surrounded by four 18mm) and electronic ejection (just in case the center motor doesn't light) backed up by motor ejection. I plan to head to both LDRS and NARAM this year - LDRS won't require anything 'special' but I'll need to build some specialized rockets for the NARAM competitions. > > BTW, anyone have a small adjistable tower launcher I can borrow for NARAM? > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From t.j.doll at att.net Wed Mar 17 17:04:56 2010 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:04:56 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? Message-ID: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they are having high power events. One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close as possible to 5280 AGL. Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I haven't a clue what rocket to use. So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit that'll go a mile high. NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home town - that's why I'm going). Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to get a mile high than if it was launched around here. It also tends to be windy, so dual deploy is probably needed. I have level 2 cert, so I can use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and cost) it would be nice to keep the motor size down. Suggestions? Thanks Tim From dmrandall at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 17:15:48 2010 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:15:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT]Re: Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? In-Reply-To: <737396.58821.qm@web112906.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <101296566-1268859586-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1245891382-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <737396.58821.qm@web112906.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e41003171715r5f5b332fw3c0b79ccecb12b60@mail.gmail.com> Yep, they have Milled Fiber.. http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=47&PHPSESSID=20100317171417518213092 Chopped fibers are pretty long, and don't work at all for fillets. They're good for filling in spaces on big projects. I rarely use my chopped fiber, but use milled fibers a lot, and for strength, there's no substitute for kevlar pulp. http://www.fibreglast.com/product/Kevlar_Pulp_544/Fillers Dave On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Robert Braibish wrote: > Sorry if that sounded curt Christopher. Sometimes my sarcasm does not "translate" well into emails.? I have no ill will or intent. > Robert > > > > ________________________________ > From: Christopher Guenther > To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com > Cc: RocketsNW > Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 2:02:42 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? > > Thank you.? I do know they have a phone but I got my answer here much faster then trying to look them up as I was already digging through my email at the time. > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Robert Braibish wrote: > > They do have chopped fiberglass...and a phone >> >>------Original Message------ >>From: Christopher Guenther >> >>Sender: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>To: RocketsNW >>Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? >> >>Sent: Mar 17, 2010 13:38 >> >>Correct me if I am wrong and before I head out to Tap Plastics, but did >>someone mention a few months back they carried Milled Fiber? >> >>Chris Guenther >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockets mailing list >>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 17:16:46 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:16:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? References: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: The Mustang by Aerotech is a great 3200 feet rocket with a G64. You try to beef it up a little and fly an H128. You'll need to sim it. But might be close to 5280. Just an idea. Haven't simmed. My sons minimum 29mm dart did close to 5K on a G64. But we lost it, when found the airframe and altimeter was chewed up by the Brothers critters. Therefore, no proof! The Mustang is a cool little rocket. Should take an H easy. Just some build adjustments. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rocket Lost" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 5:04 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? > Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they are > having high power events. > > One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close as > possible to 5280 AGL. Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I > haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I haven't > a clue what rocket to use. > > So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit > that'll go a mile high. NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home > town - that's why I'm going). Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the > temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to get > a mile high than if it was launched around here. It also tends to be > windy, so dual deploy is probably needed. I have level 2 cert, so I can > use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and cost) it > would be nice to keep the motor size down. > > Suggestions? > > Thanks > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From k2tsai at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 17:17:55 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:17:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? In-Reply-To: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <7816cff1003171717r5c959d04j3800ea7c7bf304d2@mail.gmail.com> Get ahold of a simulator and start playing around? The most important question in my mind is what altimeter? Is there a specific "event" altimeter that is checked out/in? The altimeter will define the minimum airframe size. With the new CTI Pro24 motors coming out, it should be easy to hit 1 mile with 24mm rockets. How small or big you go is really up to you. Cheers, - Ken On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:04 PM, wrote: > Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they are having high power events. > > One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close as possible to 5280 AGL. ?Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I haven't a clue what rocket to use. > > So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit that'll go a mile high. ?NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home town - that's why I'm going). ?Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to get a mile high than if it was launched around here. ?It also tends to be windy, so dual deploy is probably needed. ?I have level 2 cert, so I can use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and cost) it would be nice to keep the motor size down. > > Suggestions? > > Thanks > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From greg at bigredbee.com Wed Mar 17 17:20:53 2010 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:20:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT]Re: Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? In-Reply-To: <6bc920e41003171715r5f5b332fw3c0b79ccecb12b60@mail.gmail.com> References: <101296566-1268859586-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1245891382-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <737396.58821.qm@web112906.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6bc920e41003171715r5f5b332fw3c0b79ccecb12b60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: But don't even *think* of trying to sand kevlar pulp..... On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Dave Randall wrote: > Yep, they have Milled Fiber.. > > > http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=47&PHPSESSID=20100317171417518213092 > > Chopped fibers are pretty long, and don't work at all for fillets. > They're good for filling in spaces on big projects. I rarely use my > chopped fiber, but use milled fibers a lot, and for strength, there's > no substitute for kevlar pulp. > > http://www.fibreglast.com/product/Kevlar_Pulp_544/Fillers > > Dave > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Robert Braibish > wrote: > > Sorry if that sounded curt Christopher. Sometimes my sarcasm does not > "translate" well into emails. I have no ill will or intent. > > Robert > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Christopher Guenther > > To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com > > Cc: RocketsNW > > Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 2:02:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? > > > > Thank you. I do know they have a phone but I got my answer here much > faster then trying to look them up as I was already digging through my email > at the time. > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Robert Braibish < > cpovercg at rocketmail.com> wrote: > > > > They do have chopped fiberglass...and a phone > >> > >>------Original Message------ > >>From: Christopher Guenther > >> > >>Sender: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>To: RocketsNW > >>Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? > >> > >>Sent: Mar 17, 2010 13:38 > >> > >>Correct me if I am wrong and before I head out to Tap Plastics, but did > >>someone mention a few months back they carried Milled Fiber? > >> > >>Chris Guenther > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Rockets mailing list > >>Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Wed Mar 17 17:36:17 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <997667.55559.qm@web112901.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I have three projects in the works right now.?? I am buidling?an Excel Jr.? Well, an Excel Jr. Plus (extended length w/ a 38mm instead of the 29mm).? I am also building a Talon 3 also a 38mm and, I am working on the rebuild of my bottle rocket which came to a sudden but spectacular demise on a J350 last October.? I know I will have the first two done for May, but might not have the bottle rocket done until later. Robert Braibish ________________________________ From: Robert Krausert To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tue, March 16, 2010 5:33:42 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] It's Rocket Season... No, it's Duck Season. Rocket Season! No, it's Duck Season!! Rocket Season!!! Duck Season!!! That's right friends. I can tell by the activity in email that Rocket Season has arrived. Also another sign is that since Sunday, enjoy it being light outside till 7pm plus. So what are you up too? Anything cool being built out there? For me. I'm doing a 4" glassed rocket with 75mm motor mount. Nothing special. I'm doing similar fins as those used with a Cirrus Dart from PML. However doing a point aft beyond the airframe. Going to come in at 8 pounds and about 9 feet tall. My goal is the 54mm K250 adapted. Doing the 75mm MMT for a little more fun. Using an Altacc 2 for deployment. BeeLine GPS for tracking. Have materials for a 54mm dart. Not sure if I'll have the airframe glassed in time for the May event at Brothers. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From vonrang at yahoo.com Wed Mar 17 18:17:48 2010 From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? In-Reply-To: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <202755.23504.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> PML Cirrus DART Sam Grado TRA L2 "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"! sales at pvconly.com http://www.pvconly.com http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets --- On Wed, 3/17/10, t.j.doll at att.net wrote: From: t.j.doll at att.net Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? To: "Rocket Lost" Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 7:04 PM Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they are having high power events. One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close as possible to 5280 AGL.? Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I haven't a clue what rocket to use. So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit that'll go a mile high.? NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home town - that's why I'm going).? Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to get a mile high than if it was launched around here.? It also tends to be windy, so dual deploy is probably needed.? I have level 2 cert, so I can use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and cost) it would be nice to keep the motor size down. Suggestions? Thanks Tim _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Wed Mar 17 18:55:33 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:55:33 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? In-Reply-To: References: <1FF8039AEC6745D391464C288C93B80D@Desktop> Message-ID: You guys organize it, I will come up with a prize! Bob On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Mark, > Agreed. The challenge should be; Break 5280 feet AGL with the smallest motor. Smallest wins. Sure a Billy Ray Cyrus Dart can break 5280 feet with a J350. Can do 10K. But how high can you go with the smallest motor. Mile on the lowest. ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Dunkle > To: oroc list > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:26 PM > Subject: [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > > A mile high contest may be fun for Oroc to do out at Brothers. Just thinking out loud..........Mark > > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 19:00:05 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:00:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? References: <1FF8039AEC6745D391464C288C93B80D@Desktop> Message-ID: <1A3CD8EFC55C46A58956F5F575DD71DD@LaptopKrausert> Word!!! Alrighty Mr Dunkle. Write and send the rules. Target the May launch. Declare Sunriver as our sponsor! And I'll post the details to the website once out there. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert grossfeld" To: "nwrocketry" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > You guys organize it, I will come up with a prize! > Bob > On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > >> Mark, >> Agreed. The challenge should be; Break 5280 feet AGL with the smallest >> motor. Smallest wins. Sure a Billy Ray Cyrus Dart can break 5280 feet >> with a J350. Can do 10K. But how high can you go with the smallest motor. >> Mile on the lowest. ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Mark Dunkle >> To: oroc list >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:26 PM >> Subject: [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? >> >> A mile high contest may be fun for Oroc to do out at Brothers. Just >> thinking out loud..........Mark >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Members mailing list >> Members at oregonrocketry.org >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members >> _______________________________________________ >> Members mailing list >> Members at oregonrocketry.org >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 20:15:17 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:15:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT]Re: Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? References: <101296566-1268859586-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1245891382-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <737396.58821.qm@web112906.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <138EBB94E7CB4EC5ABCE2014E7A7E85F@LaptopKrausert> Welcome Curt Braibish to the list. LOL. Just kidding Braidish Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Braibish" To: "Christopher Guenther" Cc: "RocketsNW" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT]Re: Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? Sorry if that sounded curt Christopher. Sometimes my sarcasm does not "translate" well into emails. I have no ill will or intent. Robert ________________________________ From: Christopher Guenther To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com Cc: RocketsNW Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 2:02:42 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? Thank you. I do know they have a phone but I got my answer here much faster then trying to look them up as I was already digging through my email at the time. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Robert Braibish wrote: They do have chopped fiberglass...and a phone > >------Original Message------ >From: Christopher Guenther > >Sender: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >To: RocketsNW >Subject: [RocketsNW] Tap Plastics and Milled Fiber? > >Sent: Mar 17, 2010 13:38 > >Correct me if I am wrong and before I head out to Tap Plastics, but did >someone mention a few months back they carried Milled Fiber? > >Chris Guenther >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Wed Mar 17 20:19:04 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:19:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? In-Reply-To: References: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>, Message-ID: Robert I just happen to have a Mustang on the table waiting for me to start. I've already decided to do a zipperless mod http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/mod_aero_mustang.shtml and now you have me thinking dual deploy and an H motor :-) Such fun -brad > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:16:46 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? > > The Mustang by Aerotech is a great 3200 feet rocket with a G64. You try to > beef it up a little and fly an H128. You'll need to sim it. But might be > close to 5280. > > Just an idea. Haven't simmed. My sons minimum 29mm dart did close to 5K on a > G64. But we lost it, when found the airframe and altimeter was chewed up by > the Brothers critters. Therefore, no proof! > > The Mustang is a cool little rocket. Should take an H easy. Just some build > adjustments. > > Cheers, > Robert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rocket Lost" > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 5:04 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? > > > > Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they are > > having high power events. > > > > One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close as > > possible to 5280 AGL. Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I > > haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I haven't > > a clue what rocket to use. > > > > So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit > > that'll go a mile high. NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home > > town - that's why I'm going). Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the > > temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to get > > a mile high than if it was launched around here. It also tends to be > > windy, so dual deploy is probably needed. I have level 2 cert, so I can > > use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and cost) it > > would be nice to keep the motor size down. > > > > Suggestions? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 20:47:16 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:47:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? References: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>, Message-ID: <04237FB92DB44312BE5A9F85FE29AE42@LaptopKrausert> Very cool. My son built a Mustang for the first launch we attended during the 2004 June Brothers launch. He picked just because. Dave Bradley gave Jeremy a copy of the Aerotech catelog. He notice he own one of the highest flying Aerotech kits. He wanted a G64 to fly with. Now let me preface a little. Vern Knowles has just signed for my TRA L1 cert. Then Jeremy fly's his Mustang. He did something wrong packing the chute, came down fast and tangled. Nearly hitting Vern's vehicle. But the rocket had no damaged. And has flow 22 times. Flown on everything from an E9 to G80. The E9 was a bad idea. 100 feet at most. But go for it! Mustang can handle an H. Watch the CP and CG. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad McClure To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; t.j.doll at att.net ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? Robert I just happen to have a Mustang on the table waiting for me to start. I've already decided to do a zipperless mod http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/mod_aero_mustang.shtml and now you have me thinking dual deploy and an H motor :-) Such fun -brad > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:16:46 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? > > The Mustang by Aerotech is a great 3200 feet rocket with a G64. You try to > beef it up a little and fly an H128. You'll need to sim it. But might be > close to 5280. > > Just an idea. Haven't simmed. My sons minimum 29mm dart did close to 5K on a > G64. But we lost it, when found the airframe and altimeter was chewed up by > the Brothers critters. Therefore, no proof! > > The Mustang is a cool little rocket. Should take an H easy. Just some build > adjustments. > > Cheers, > Robert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rocket Lost" > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 5:04 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? > > > > Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they are > > having high power events. > > > > One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close as > > possible to 5280 AGL. Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I > > haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I haven't > > a clue what rocket to use. > > > > So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit > > that'll go a mile high. NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home > > town - that's why I'm going). Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the > > temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to get > > a mile high than if it was launched around here. It also tends to be > > windy, so dual deploy is probably needed. I have level 2 cert, so I can > > use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and cost) it > > would be nice to keep the motor size down. > > > > Suggestions? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From worthenc at msn.com Wed Mar 17 20:53:55 2010 From: worthenc at msn.com (JAMES C WORTHEN) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:53:55 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? In-Reply-To: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>, <04237FB92DB44312BE5A9F85FE29AE42@LaptopKrausert> References: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>, <04237FB92DB44312BE5A9F85FE29AE42@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: And remember when assembling it to NOT put the baffle in or at least use a long motor tube so as to be able to put something longer than a G80. the Mustand was also my first "bigger" rocket and the only regret I have is I build per instructions and now can't put anything larger in it. Don't get me wrong I enjoy it a lot and fly it every chance I get. J C Worthen ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Krausert To: Brad McClure ; t.j.doll at att.net ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? Very cool. My son built a Mustang for the first launch we attended during the 2004 June Brothers launch. He picked just because. Dave Bradley gave Jeremy a copy of the Aerotech catelog. He notice he own one of the highest flying Aerotech kits. He wanted a G64 to fly with. Now let me preface a little. Vern Knowles has just signed for my TRA L1 cert. Then Jeremy fly's his Mustang. He did something wrong packing the chute, came down fast and tangled. Nearly hitting Vern's vehicle. But the rocket had no damaged. And has flow 22 times. Flown on everything from an E9 to G80. The E9 was a bad idea. 100 feet at most. But go for it! Mustang can handle an H. Watch the CP and CG. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad McClure To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; t.j.doll at att.net ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? Robert I just happen to have a Mustang on the table waiting for me to start. I've already decided to do a zipperless mod http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/mod_aero_mustang.shtml and now you have me thinking dual deploy and an H motor :-) Such fun -brad > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:16:46 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? > > The Mustang by Aerotech is a great 3200 feet rocket with a G64. You try to > beef it up a little and fly an H128. You'll need to sim it. But might be > close to 5280. > > Just an idea. Haven't simmed. My sons minimum 29mm dart did close to 5K on a > G64. But we lost it, when found the airframe and altimeter was chewed up by > the Brothers critters. Therefore, no proof! > > The Mustang is a cool little rocket. Should take an H easy. Just some build > adjustments. > > Cheers, > Robert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > To: "Rocket Lost" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 5:04 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? > > > > Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they are > > having high power events. > > > > One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close as > > possible to 5280 AGL. Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I > > haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I haven't > > a clue what rocket to use. > > > > So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit > > that'll go a mile high. NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home > > town - that's why I'm going). Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the > > temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to get > > a mile high than if it was launched around here. It also tends to be > > windy, so dual deploy is probably needed. I have level 2 cert, so I can > > use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and cost) it > > would be nice to keep the motor size down. > > > > Suggestions? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 21:01:19 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:01:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? References: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>, <04237FB92DB44312BE5A9F85FE29AE42@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: So true. But the fin size/area certainly can allow a little AFT motor over hang. As long as GP & CG are in check, I think at least as inch. More, than I'd agree unstabble. Jumping to the weight of an H, avoid any over hang. Even going minimum diameter, doing a 38mm MMT and using J90, now that would be fun. You'd break mach after a couple seconds. Then you'll need some glass and with glass some nose weight. OK, bad idea! Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: JAMES C WORTHEN To: Brad McClure ; t.j.doll at att.net ; rockets at rocketsnw.com ; Robert Krausert Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? And remember when assembling it to NOT put the baffle in or at least use a long motor tube so as to be able to put something longer than a G80. the Mustand was also my first "bigger" rocket and the only regret I have is I build per instructions and now can't put anything larger in it. Don't get me wrong I enjoy it a lot and fly it every chance I get. J C Worthen ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Krausert To: Brad McClure ; t.j.doll at att.net ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? Very cool. My son built a Mustang for the first launch we attended during the 2004 June Brothers launch. He picked just because. Dave Bradley gave Jeremy a copy of the Aerotech catelog. He notice he own one of the highest flying Aerotech kits. He wanted a G64 to fly with. Now let me preface a little. Vern Knowles has just signed for my TRA L1 cert. Then Jeremy fly's his Mustang. He did something wrong packing the chute, came down fast and tangled. Nearly hitting Vern's vehicle. But the rocket had no damaged. And has flow 22 times. Flown on everything from an E9 to G80. The E9 was a bad idea. 100 feet at most. But go for it! Mustang can handle an H. Watch the CP and CG. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad McClure To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; t.j.doll at att.net ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? Robert I just happen to have a Mustang on the table waiting for me to start. I've already decided to do a zipperless mod http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/mod_aero_mustang.shtml and now you have me thinking dual deploy and an H motor :-) Such fun -brad > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:16:46 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? > > The Mustang by Aerotech is a great 3200 feet rocket with a G64. You try to > beef it up a little and fly an H128. You'll need to sim it. But might be > close to 5280. > > Just an idea. Haven't simmed. My sons minimum 29mm dart did close to 5K on a > G64. But we lost it, when found the airframe and altimeter was chewed up by > the Brothers critters. Therefore, no proof! > > The Mustang is a cool little rocket. Should take an H easy. Just some build > adjustments. > > Cheers, > Robert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rocket Lost" > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 5:04 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? > > > > Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they are > > having high power events. > > > > One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close as > > possible to 5280 AGL. Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I > > haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I haven't > > a clue what rocket to use. > > > > So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit > > that'll go a mile high. NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home > > town - that's why I'm going). Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the > > temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to get > > a mile high than if it was launched around here. It also tends to be > > windy, so dual deploy is probably needed. I have level 2 cert, so I can > > use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and cost) it > > would be nice to keep the motor size down. > > > > Suggestions? > > > > Thanks > > > > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Wed Mar 17 21:07:58 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:07:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? In-Reply-To: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <4BA1A71E.2030707@hawkfeather.com> Saucer! 5280' - 5000' = 280' Andrew ;) t.j.doll at att.net wrote: > Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they are having high power events. > > One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close as possible to 5280 AGL. Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I haven't a clue what rocket to use. > > So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit that'll go a mile high. NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home town - that's why I'm going). Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to get a mile high than if it was launched around here. It also tends to be windy, so dual deploy is probably needed. I have level 2 cert, so I can use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and cost) it would be nice to keep the motor size down. > > Suggestions? > > Thanks > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Wed Mar 17 21:54:34 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:54:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler Message-ID: I've spent the last hour search the web looking for a source for 1.9" diameter tube couplers with out any luck so I'll ask the list - suggestions? Thanks -brad From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 21:57:07 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:57:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler References: Message-ID: Cannot be found in lengths longs than a calibar. Son and I learned this. Buy larger and splice them down. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad McClure" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler > > I've spent the last hour search the web looking for a source for 1.9" > diameter tube couplers with out any luck so I'll ask the list - > suggestions? > > > > Thanks > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From fred at azinger.com Wed Mar 17 22:07:12 2010 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:07:12 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <016501cac658$df7aa920$9e6ffb60$@com> Not true -- check Tammie's -- sometimes you get lucky locally or Red Arrow Hobbies online -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:57 PM To: Brad McClure; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler Cannot be found in lengths longs than a calibar. Son and I learned this. Buy larger and splice them down. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad McClure" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler > > I've spent the last hour search the web looking for a source for 1.9" > diameter tube couplers with out any luck so I'll ask the list - > suggestions? > > > > Thanks > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Wed Mar 17 22:17:54 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:17:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler In-Reply-To: <016501cac658$df7aa920$9e6ffb60$@com> References: <016501cac658$df7aa920$9e6ffb60$@com> Message-ID: we can order them from Aerotech,,,,,,,,,,, Part #11804 Let me know............. 11924 1.9" Slot/ 3-fin 22.75" $6.00 $0.00 11923 1.9" Slot/ 4-fin 22.75" $6.00 $0.00 11926 1.9" Unslotted 22.75" $5.50 $0.00 11912 1.9" Unslotted 12.00" $3.50 $0.00 11909 1.9" Unslotted 9.00" $3.00 $0.00 11804 1.9" Coupler Tube 4.00" $3.00 $0.00 We might have one 4" in stock. Thanks, Bob On Mar 17, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Fred Azinger wrote: > Not true -- check Tammie's -- sometimes you get lucky locally or Red Arrow > Hobbies online > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:57 PM > To: Brad McClure; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler > > Cannot be found in lengths longs than a calibar. Son and I learned this. Buy > > larger and splice them down. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad McClure" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:54 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler > > >> >> I've spent the last hour search the web looking for a source for 1.9" >> diameter tube couplers with out any luck so I'll ask the list - >> suggestions? >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> -brad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 22:36:48 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:36:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler References: <016501cac658$df7aa920$9e6ffb60$@com> Message-ID: <1E92E22D91F04757BDD31BC6D7F060B5@LaptopKrausert> Cool. I stand corrected. Back when Jeremy was making his dart, we couldn't and 1.9" coupler tubing that was longer than a caliber. Good to know. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert grossfeld" To: "nwrocketry" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler > we can order them from Aerotech,,,,,,,,,,, Part #11804 > Let me know............. > > 11924 1.9" Slot/ 3-fin 22.75" $6.00 $0.00 > 11923 1.9" Slot/ 4-fin 22.75" $6.00 $0.00 > 11926 1.9" Unslotted 22.75" $5.50 $0.00 > 11912 1.9" Unslotted 12.00" $3.50 $0.00 > 11909 1.9" Unslotted 9.00" $3.00 $0.00 > 11804 1.9" Coupler Tube 4.00" $3.00 $0.00 > > > > We might have one 4" in stock. > > Thanks, > Bob > > On Mar 17, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Fred Azinger wrote: > >> Not true -- check Tammie's -- sometimes you get lucky locally or Red >> Arrow >> Hobbies online >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:57 PM >> To: Brad McClure; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler >> >> Cannot be found in lengths longs than a calibar. Son and I learned this. >> Buy >> >> larger and splice them down. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brad McClure" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:54 PM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler >> >> >>> >>> I've spent the last hour search the web looking for a source for 1.9" >>> diameter tube couplers with out any luck so I'll ask the list - >>> suggestions? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> -brad >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Wed Mar 17 22:49:15 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:49:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BA1BEDB.2050700@hawkfeather.com> Not local: http://www.balsamachining.com/catalog.htm C188 Tube Couplers or Coupler Stock. HTH, Andrew. Brad McClure wrote: > I've spent the last hour search the web looking for a source for 1.9" diameter tube couplers with out any luck so I'll ask the list - suggestions? > > > > Thanks > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Mar 17 23:56:02 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] One Mile High - what rocket to use? In-Reply-To: <7816cff1003171717r5c959d04j3800ea7c7bf304d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <031820100004.18786.4BA16E28000968F80000496222243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <7816cff1003171717r5c959d04j3800ea7c7bf304d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: One mile will take at least 50 N-sec of motor. A 24mm F or bigger can do it. Bigger makes it easier to get close. If it was me and I had my druthers, I'd probably go with a fairly dense rocket on an H or I motor. Fast acceleration, normal margin of stability, pay attention to getting ignition accomplished quickly and consistently. +McG+ > Get ahold of a simulator and start playing around? The most important > question in my mind is what altimeter? Is there a specific "event" > altimeter that is checked out/in? The altimeter will define the > minimum airframe size. > > With the new CTI Pro24 motors coming out, it should be easy to hit 1 > mile with 24mm rockets. > > How small or big you go is really up to you. > > Cheers, > - Ken > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:04 PM, wrote: >> Since I'm going to NARAM, I figure I might as well compete - plus they >> are having high power events. >> >> One interesting event is "Mile High Predicted Altitude" - come as close >> as possible to 5280 AGL. ?Since I'm mainly interested in scale models I >> haven't done much with the more basic high power rocket kits and I >> haven't a clue what rocket to use. >> >> So, I'm looking for a fairly easy to build basic high power rocket kit >> that'll go a mile high. ?NARAM is outside Pueblo, Colorado (my old home >> town - that's why I'm going). ?Launch site is about 5000 ft., and the >> temperature will likely be in the 90's, so it'll be a little easier to >> get a mile high than if it was launched around here. ?It also tends to >> be windy, so dual deploy is probably needed. ?I have level 2 cert, so I >> can use a pretty big motor, but in the interest of 'efficiency' (and >> cost) it would be nice to keep the motor size down. >> >> Suggestions? >> >> Thanks >> >> Tim >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Mar 18 00:42:56 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Trackers (Radio/GPS) In-Reply-To: <7816cff1003170927o4d61327du4b636519551b18e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <7816cff1003170927o4d61327du4b636519551b18e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1a20b02296ef3e7458ddbe88cc7f83d1.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> For visual tracking at high altitudes, smoke is a must. Even an Estes mini-engine is amazingly visible. That will get you a visual sighting at apogee. After that, it's a matter of multiple sets of eyes on it, preferably young, sharp eyes. The hard part for me is tripping over ground clutter as I turn around trying to follow the rocket during descent, and of course the dreaded sun/rocket alignment. I recommend low-power wide-field binoculars or a similar monocular. Wide field of view is much more important than magnifying power. I personally use an inexpensive 4x golf scope. Wish I could put a red filter on it. Visual tracking of rockets is an art rapidly dying out as technology becomes more practical. Rockets that radio you their GPS positions in soft, sexy voices are just so.......seductive. :) Rocketeers used to routinely visually track rockets to 10k+ feet. Beyond about 15k things get dicey. +McG+ > How high are you willing to fly without some kind of tracker? > > It looks like the tracker I ordered won't get here in time for the the > 3/27 Mansfield launch. One of the rockets I'm planning to bring out > currently sims to ~7000' on full I motors, and I'm more than a little > hesitant to risk it without a tracker. > > Cheers, > - Ken > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From appusher at q.com Thu Mar 18 00:50:10 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:50:10 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Carbon Fiber Message-ID: I was looking around for fin material and found this http://dragonplate.com/default.asp It might just have some use related to rocketry. Bill From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 11:16:18 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:16:18 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler In-Reply-To: <4BA1BEDB.2050700@hawkfeather.com> References: <4BA1BEDB.2050700@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: I know that Tammies does not have any 1.9 couplers unless you look for the estes large coupler mixed package which they only have to packages right now for between $10 and $13. I am in there every few days and am still looking for 2 PML 29mm couplers. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Andrew MacMillen wrote: > Not local: > > http://www.balsamachining.com/catalog.htm > C188 Tube Couplers or Coupler Stock. > > HTH, > Andrew. > > > Brad McClure wrote: > >> I've spent the last hour search the web looking for a source for 1.9" >> diameter tube couplers with out any luck so I'll ask the list - suggestions? >> >> >> Thanks >> >> -brad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 18:09:42 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:09:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler References: <016501cac658$df7aa920$9e6ffb60$@com> Message-ID: <6552240DB0104989842F467167FD694E@LaptopKrausert> Sorry everyone for the mistake. It was 29mm coupler tubing we had trouble finding. My son corrected me. When he built Nanometer, a 29mm dart, we couldn't find any 29mm coupler in lengths larger that 1-1/2 calibers. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert grossfeld" To: "nwrocketry" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler > we can order them from Aerotech,,,,,,,,,,, Part #11804 > Let me know............. > > 11924 1.9" Slot/ 3-fin 22.75" $6.00 $0.00 > 11923 1.9" Slot/ 4-fin 22.75" $6.00 $0.00 > 11926 1.9" Unslotted 22.75" $5.50 $0.00 > 11912 1.9" Unslotted 12.00" $3.50 $0.00 > 11909 1.9" Unslotted 9.00" $3.00 $0.00 > 11804 1.9" Coupler Tube 4.00" $3.00 $0.00 > > > > We might have one 4" in stock. > > Thanks, > Bob > > On Mar 17, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Fred Azinger wrote: > >> Not true -- check Tammie's -- sometimes you get lucky locally or Red >> Arrow >> Hobbies online >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:57 PM >> To: Brad McClure; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler >> >> Cannot be found in lengths longs than a calibar. Son and I learned this. >> Buy >> >> larger and splice them down. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brad McClure" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:54 PM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler >> >> >>> >>> I've spent the last hour search the web looking for a source for 1.9" >>> diameter tube couplers with out any luck so I'll ask the list - >>> suggestions? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> -brad >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Thu Mar 18 19:26:35 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:26:35 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] new igniter Message-ID: http://tinyurl.com/ylkafog A new incarnation of an epoxy igniter (um... motor initiation device). From worthenc at msn.com Thu Mar 18 20:23:04 2010 From: worthenc at msn.com (JAMES C WORTHEN) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:23:04 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] new igniter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott, Relative uninformed here. Are these viable for commercial motors or primarily for ex motors? The one you reference looks like it could work with commercial but the 2 others that were using glo plugs appeared that they would have to placed at the base of the motor & the ignition material projected into the motor to be started. With that in mind then, secondly if for commercial why wouldn't an inverted small BP motor accomplish the same goal? J C Worthen ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Berfield To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] new igniter http://tinyurl.com/ylkafog A new incarnation of an epoxy igniter (um... motor initiation device). _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Thu Mar 18 20:40:05 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:40:05 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] new igniter Message-ID: The one that looks like a regular cast igniter is mine and is intended for any motor. I have soem that are for 38s and others for larger. Workingon finding straws to make smaller ones. The others on that page are form other folks. -----Original Message----- From: JAMES C WORTHEN [mailto:worthenc at msn.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 08:23 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com, 'Scott Berfield' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] new igniter Scott, Relative uninformed here. Are these viable for commercial motors or primarily for ex motors? The one you reference looks like it could work with commercial but the 2 others that were using glo plugs appeared that they would have to placed at the base of the motor & the ignition material projected into the motor to be started. With that in mind then, secondly if for commercial why wouldn't an inverted small BP motor accomplish the same goal? J C Worthen ----- Original Message ----- From:Scott Berfield To:rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] new igniter http://tinyurl.com/ylkafog A new incarnation of an epoxy igniter (um... motor initiation device). _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From vincesimoneau at msn.com Thu Mar 18 20:54:45 2010 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:54:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] new igniter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try Starbucks ! EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: sb at berfield.com > To: worthenc at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com; sb at berfield.com > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:40:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] new igniter > > The one that looks like a regular cast igniter is mine and is intended for any motor. I have soem that are for 38s and others for larger. Workingon finding straws to make smaller ones. The others on that page are form other folks. > -----Original Message----- > From: JAMES C WORTHEN [mailto:worthenc at msn.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 08:23 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com, 'Scott Berfield' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] new igniter > > Scott, > Relative uninformed here. Are these viable for commercial motors or primarily for ex motors? The one you reference looks like it could work with commercial but the 2 others that were using glo plugs appeared that they would have to placed at the base of the motor & the ignition material projected into the motor to be started. With that in mind then, secondly if for commercial why wouldn't an inverted small BP motor accomplish the same goal? > J C Worthen > ----- Original Message ----- > From:Scott Berfield > To:rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:26 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] new igniter > > > http://tinyurl.com/ylkafog > > A new incarnation of an epoxy igniter (um... motor initiation device). > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu Mar 18 23:16:13 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:16:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler In-Reply-To: <6552240DB0104989842F467167FD694E@LaptopKrausert> References: <016501cac658$df7aa920$9e6ffb60$@com> <6552240DB0104989842F467167FD694E@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <4BA316AD.5010002@hawkfeather.com> CPL-52H-34" here: http://www.wooshrocketry.org/misc/tt.htm - or - C52H-34 here: http://www.balsamachining.com/catalog.htm Old skool stuff - Estes BT-52H was essentially 29mm. You might have to do a light sanding on the coupler tube to get a fit. Andrew. Robert Krausert wrote: > Sorry everyone for the mistake. It was 29mm coupler tubing we had > trouble finding. My son corrected me. When he built Nanometer, a 29mm > dart, we couldn't find any 29mm coupler in lengths larger that 1-1/2 > calibers. > > Cheers, > Robert > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert grossfeld" > > To: "nwrocketry" > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:17 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler > > >> we can order them from Aerotech,,,,,,,,,,, Part #11804 >> Let me know............. >> >> 11924 1.9" Slot/ 3-fin 22.75" $6.00 $0.00 >> 11923 1.9" Slot/ 4-fin 22.75" $6.00 $0.00 >> 11926 1.9" Unslotted 22.75" $5.50 $0.00 >> 11912 1.9" Unslotted 12.00" $3.50 $0.00 >> 11909 1.9" Unslotted 9.00" $3.00 $0.00 >> 11804 1.9" Coupler Tube 4.00" $3.00 $0.00 >> >> >> >> We might have one 4" in stock. >> >> Thanks, >> Bob >> >> On Mar 17, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Fred Azinger wrote: >> >>> Not true -- check Tammie's -- sometimes you get lucky locally or Red >>> Arrow >>> Hobbies online >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:57 PM >>> To: Brad McClure; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler >>> >>> Cannot be found in lengths longs than a calibar. Son and I learned >>> this. Buy >>> >>> larger and splice them down. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad McClure" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:54 PM >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Local Source for Aerotech 1.9" Coupler >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I've spent the last hour search the web looking for a source for 1.9" >>>> diameter tube couplers with out any luck so I'll ask the list - >>>> suggestions? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> -brad >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager >> >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 >> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 >> >> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our >> natural world. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From dave at skagitlapidary.com Fri Mar 19 09:28:46 2010 From: dave at skagitlapidary.com (Dave Ebersole) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:28:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket info Message-ID: <4BA3A63E.9090507@skagitlapidary.com> I came into possession of Mike Watkins Ring Fin & V-2 Rockets. Is Mike still around on the list, or does anyone have contact info for him? Thanks, Dave Ebersole 360-336-3533 From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Fri Mar 19 12:59:26 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 12:59:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] new igniter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601cac79e$ae245fa0$0a6d1ee0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Now that is HOT! LOL -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:27 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] new igniter http://tinyurl.com/ylkafog A new incarnation of an epoxy igniter (um... motor initiation device). _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Fri Mar 19 14:57:49 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 21:57:49 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale Message-ID: I thought I would give everyone here a shot at this first before I went elsewhere. Complete BeelineGPS for sale. Transmitter w/battery, charger, software. $300obo Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Fri Mar 19 15:07:52 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:07:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... References: Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Took the kids out to Sixty this morning, since it was a professional development day and they didn't have class (and my principal said I'm professionally developed enough this year...). Got off three good flights (none of them close to qualifiers yet) and two bad ones. One of the bad ones was sooooooooooooooo bad I'm going to have to have a talk with the folks at Aerotech. We happened to be shooting video at the time, so I pulled the footage from the tape and slapped it up on youtube. Take a look and tell me if you think this is warranty call worthy. (BTW, the jet of flame you see on the way down is coming out the FRONT of the rocket's booster section.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWwYedOz54 Bill, you want to call Diane, or should I? Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 From arrsales at cox.net Fri Mar 19 15:21:58 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:21:58 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <2A57A9F1E02E4E289872E2EC6AB1BE8B@apcp.local> Ouch! That sux! Was that "Duck and Cover" they were implementing? :) I didn't think they were still rolling those 1950's safety movies in schools. :) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 6:08 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... Took the kids out to Sixty this morning, since it was a professional development day and they didn't have class (and my principal said I'm professionally developed enough this year...). Got off three good flights (none of them close to qualifiers yet) and two bad ones. One of the bad ones was sooooooooooooooo bad I'm going to have to have a talk with the folks at Aerotech. We happened to be shooting video at the time, so I pulled the footage from the tape and slapped it up on youtube. Take a look and tell me if you think this is warranty call worthy. (BTW, the jet of flame you see on the way down is coming out the FRONT of the rocket's booster section.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWwYedOz54 Bill, you want to call Diane, or should I? Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From robert.krausert at intel.com Fri Mar 19 15:25:56 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:25:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59D71113@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Absolutely call that one in. Peter, the only thing I recommend is open the case to confirm the delay grain paper tube is present. Looked like a missing delay. But if it was there, then it blew out the delay core. When you open it, touch nothing. Just confirm it's there. Then close it and call Aerotech. As for the person close to the ground strike. That would be scary. Glad no one got hit. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 3:08 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... Took the kids out to Sixty this morning, since it was a professional development day and they didn't have class (and my principal said I'm professionally developed enough this year...). Got off three good flights (none of them close to qualifiers yet) and two bad ones. One of the bad ones was sooooooooooooooo bad I'm going to have to have a talk with the folks at Aerotech. We happened to be shooting video at the time, so I pulled the footage from the tape and slapped it up on youtube. Take a look and tell me if you think this is warranty call worthy. (BTW, the jet of flame you see on the way down is coming out the FRONT of the rocket's booster section.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWwYedOz54 Bill, you want to call Diane, or should I? Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jrcoxx at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 15:19:42 2010 From: jrcoxx at gmail.com (John Cox) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:19:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4d5ff6a51003191519s75d5a27bi6aa69e1538f37f7@mail.gmail.com> Bill What am I missing here? A basic 70cm BeeLine GPS Kit (Trnsmitter, battery, charger and adapter) is $289 new. (Software is free from BRB) Is this a High Power, 2 Meter or other package? Thanks John On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > > I thought I would give everyone here a shot at this first before I went > elsewhere. > > > > Complete BeelineGPS for sale. Transmitter w/battery, charger, software. > > $300obo > > > > Bill at PSP > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 15:27:46 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:27:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... In-Reply-To: <2A57A9F1E02E4E289872E2EC6AB1BE8B@apcp.local> References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <2A57A9F1E02E4E289872E2EC6AB1BE8B@apcp.local> Message-ID: I would most deffinently be calling Aerotech on that one. Chris Guenther NAR L2 On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Always Ready Rocketry wrote: > Ouch! That sux! Was that "Duck and Cover" they were implementing? :) I > didn't think they were still rolling those 1950's safety movies in schools. > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 6:08 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... > > Took the kids out to Sixty this morning, since it was a professional > development day and they didn't have class (and my principal said I'm > professionally developed enough this year...). > > Got off three good flights (none of them close to qualifiers yet) and two > bad ones. One of the bad ones was sooooooooooooooo bad I'm going to have > to > have a talk with the folks at Aerotech. > > We happened to be shooting video at the time, so I pulled the footage from > the tape and slapped it up on youtube. > > Take a look and tell me if you think this is warranty call worthy. (BTW, > the jet of flame you see on the way down is coming out the FRONT of the > rocket's booster section.) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWwYedOz54 > > Bill, you want to call Diane, or should I? > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From glech at aol.com Fri Mar 19 15:32:15 2010 From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:32:15 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale In-Reply-To: <4d5ff6a51003191519s75d5a27bi6aa69e1538f37f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <4d5ff6a51003191519s75d5a27bi6aa69e1538f37f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CC95CB28E9B826-2610-1DF51@Webmail-m122.sysops.aol.com> I had the same thought. Perhaps you can offer a few more details. I'm in the market for one. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: John Cox To: NW Rocketry Group Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2010 3:19 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale Bill What am I missing here? basic 70cm BeeLine GPS Kit (Trnsmitter, battery, charger and adapter) is 289 new. (Software is free from BRB) Is this a High Power, 2 Meter or other package? hanks ohn On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > I thought I would give everyone here a shot at this first before I went elsewhere. Complete BeelineGPS for sale. Transmitter w/battery, charger, software. $300obo Bill at PSP From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Fri Mar 19 15:52:11 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:52:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59D71113@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300504@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> It's hard to tell...it's pretty much carnage in there. Looks like there's the charred remains of a paper tube in there. The student who rolled the motor is L1 certified and known for being meticulous in his attention to detail, so I have to lean toward the "everything is there" side. In case you couldn't tell from the clip at the end of the video, it actually blew the well for the BP charge off the top of the forward closure and burnt off the anodizing. Scary stuff... Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 ________________________________ From: Krausert, Robert [mailto:robert.krausert at intel.com] Sent: Fri 3/19/2010 3:25 PM To: Schurke, Peter; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... Absolutely call that one in. Peter, the only thing I recommend is open the case to confirm the delay grain paper tube is present. Looked like a missing delay. But if it was there, then it blew out the delay core. When you open it, touch nothing. Just confirm it's there. Then close it and call Aerotech. As for the person close to the ground strike. That would be scary. Glad no one got hit. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 3:08 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... Took the kids out to Sixty this morning, since it was a professional development day and they didn't have class (and my principal said I'm professionally developed enough this year...). Got off three good flights (none of them close to qualifiers yet) and two bad ones. One of the bad ones was sooooooooooooooo bad I'm going to have to have a talk with the folks at Aerotech. We happened to be shooting video at the time, so I pulled the footage from the tape and slapped it up on youtube. Take a look and tell me if you think this is warranty call worthy. (BTW, the jet of flame you see on the way down is coming out the FRONT of the rocket's booster section.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWwYedOz54 Bill, you want to call Diane, or should I? Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 15:59:19 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:59:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59D71113@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300504@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <1113DCAC833D4720B5EC7BE059486FD5@LaptopKrausert> Then off to Aretech you go. They owe a motor and more. Cheers, Robert BTW, never questioned the kids carefulness to build things right. Just something to check before sending. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schurke, Peter" To: "Krausert, Robert" ; Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... > It's hard to tell...it's pretty much carnage in there. Looks like there's > the charred remains of a paper tube in there. > > The student who rolled the motor is L1 certified and known for being > meticulous in his attention to detail, so I have to lean toward the > "everything is there" side. > > In case you couldn't tell from the clip at the end of the video, it > actually blew the well for the BP charge off the top of the forward > closure and burnt off the anodizing. > > Scary stuff... > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > ________________________________ > > From: Krausert, Robert [mailto:robert.krausert at intel.com] > Sent: Fri 3/19/2010 3:25 PM > To: Schurke, Peter; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... > > > > Absolutely call that one in. Peter, the only thing I recommend is open the > case to confirm the delay grain paper tube is present. Looked like a > missing delay. But if it was there, then it blew out the delay core. When > you open it, touch nothing. Just confirm it's there. Then close it and > call Aerotech. > > As for the person close to the ground strike. That would be scary. Glad no > one got hit. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 3:08 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... > > Took the kids out to Sixty this morning, since it was a professional > development day and they didn't have class (and my principal said I'm > professionally developed enough this year...). > > Got off three good flights (none of them close to qualifiers yet) and two > bad ones. One of the bad ones was sooooooooooooooo bad I'm going to have > to have a talk with the folks at Aerotech. > > We happened to be shooting video at the time, so I pulled the footage from > the tape and slapped it up on youtube. > > Take a look and tell me if you think this is warranty call worthy. (BTW, > the jet of flame you see on the way down is coming out the FRONT of the > rocket's booster section.) > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWwYedOz54 > > Bill, you want to call Diane, or should I? > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St. > Seattle, WA 98133 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dave at skagitlapidary.com Fri Mar 19 16:01:02 2010 From: dave at skagitlapidary.com (Dave Ebersole) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:01:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mentor Message-ID: <4BA4022E.8050700@skagitlapidary.com> Hello All, I think Napoleon Hill wrote, " The best way to navigate through a mine field is to follow someone.", so I am looking for a mentor in the NW area willing to supervise me in the construction of my level 1 and 2 rockets. I have searched for a person closer to me but have had no luck. Even if I have to tele-build, I have unlimited phone service, and I would call anywhere. Thanks, Dave KB7DCD NAR "Level 1 or Bust" From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 16:18:00 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:18:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property Message-ID: <2B2C42873F884CBFAA70BF83FD48413B@LaptopKrausert> Hello Members, As many of have read last month that a fence East of the incoming road was put in place. There is now a large gate at the flight line road heading to the East. And the fence runs just East of the road up the hill to the South. Not only was a fence installed, No Trespassing signs were added. Following Oregon law, my previous rule for flyers was only to enter the property for retrieval of a rocket that falls or lands on the property. Update: Today, I spoke with the land owner over the phone. He knows us and has seen our launch activities. The fence was not put in place because of our presence. They are planning to develop the land and begin growing crops. The owner stated this will take three or more years to accomplish. The fence was step one, as to keep free range cows off the property. Not good for a crop. We might still be welcome while crops are growing. That is in the future. Access Rules Update: Access to this property is allowed. You can enter the property via any gate to access and recover a rocket that falls or lands on the property. Do not climb, jump over, or gain/lose access to the property via the fencing. Use the gates only. Close the gate when passing through it. Either entry or exit, close the gate. Each evening before shut down, we (OROC members) need to confirm the gate is closed. Motor vehicles are allowed. But only on estabished roads. No off road with motor vehicles or bikes. Just please close the gate as you pass. Removal, damage or change to anything on this property is not allowed. These rules are effective immediately. Lets treat their property with respect. Conclusion They support our Rocketry activities. Which having multiple land owners in Brothers with such support is something we should treat carefully and never jeoprodize that trust and support in us. Please help me. If you see something not right or inappropriate activities on the property, please address or alert a board member. Yelling works great, "Hey! Close the gate!" And certainly can be done with a "friendly" smile. Great news. Please help me retain one of the best launch sites in the nation. Brothers is a diamond!!! Cheers, Robert Krausert President, OregonRocketry From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 16:19:47 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:19:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mentor References: <4BA4022E.8050700@skagitlapidary.com> Message-ID: <0A7A6DE5674F4F5C8AA12421085DAB0D@LaptopKrausert> Where do you live? Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ebersole" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:01 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Mentor > Hello All, > > I think Napoleon Hill wrote, " The best way to navigate through a mine > field is to follow someone.", so I am looking for a mentor > in the NW area willing to supervise me in the construction of my level 1 > and 2 rockets. I have searched for a person closer to me > but have had no luck. Even if I have to tele-build, I have unlimited > phone service, and I would call anywhere. > > Thanks, > Dave > KB7DCD > NAR "Level 1 or Bust" > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From appusher at q.com Fri Mar 19 16:23:40 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 23:23:40 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale In-Reply-To: <8CC95CB28E9B826-2610-1DF51@Webmail-m122.sysops.aol.com> References: <4d5ff6a51003191519s75d5a27bi6aa69e1538f37f7@mail.gmail.com>, <8CC95CB28E9B826-2610-1DF51@Webmail-m122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: That's what I paid for it. I haven't looked at Greg's site to see what the current prices are. Probably should have. He lowered the price the last time I looked it was at or around $300. I'm open to offers. Package Deal $299 Includes GPS Transmitter, 750mah Battery, Charger, Serial Adapter and SMA antenna This is what I have. The software disk is probably old news. Better to get it fresh. EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:32:15 -0400 > From: glech at aol.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale > > > I had the same thought. Perhaps you can offer a few more details. I'm in the market for one. > > > Cheers from ~ > Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Cox > To: NW Rocketry Group > Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2010 3:19 pm > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale > > > Bill > What am I missing here? > basic 70cm BeeLine GPS Kit (Trnsmitter, battery, charger and adapter) is > 289 new. (Software is free from BRB) > Is this a High Power, 2 Meter or other package? > hanks > ohn > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > > > I thought I would give everyone here a shot at this first before I went > elsewhere. > > > > Complete BeelineGPS for sale. Transmitter w/battery, charger, software. > > $300obo > > > > Bill at PSP > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Fri Mar 19 16:26:47 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:26:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300503@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <009c01cac7bb$a5a50e70$f0ef2b50$@com> Really good safety roll by the one kid. :) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 3:08 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... Took the kids out to Sixty this morning, since it was a professional development day and they didn't have class (and my principal said I'm professionally developed enough this year...). Got off three good flights (none of them close to qualifiers yet) and two bad ones. One of the bad ones was sooooooooooooooo bad I'm going to have to have a talk with the folks at Aerotech. We happened to be shooting video at the time, so I pulled the footage from the tape and slapped it up on youtube. Take a look and tell me if you think this is warranty call worthy. (BTW, the jet of flame you see on the way down is coming out the FRONT of the rocket's booster section.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWwYedOz54 Bill, you want to call Diane, or should I? Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Fri Mar 19 16:28:19 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:28:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mentor In-Reply-To: <4BA4022E.8050700@skagitlapidary.com> References: <4BA4022E.8050700@skagitlapidary.com> Message-ID: <009d01cac7bb$dc474330$94d5c990$@com> Where are you located? I would be glad to help. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ebersole Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:01 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Mentor Hello All, I think Napoleon Hill wrote, " The best way to navigate through a mine field is to follow someone.", so I am looking for a mentor in the NW area willing to supervise me in the construction of my level 1 and 2 rockets. I have searched for a person closer to me but have had no luck. Even if I have to tele-build, I have unlimited phone service, and I would call anywhere. Thanks, Dave KB7DCD NAR "Level 1 or Bust" _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Mfreptiles at aol.com Fri Mar 19 16:33:21 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:33:21 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property Message-ID: <2eb84.41d8e742.38d563c1@aol.com> Just curious, what kind of crops can you grow out there....tumbleweeds? :) Mike F. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 16:42:54 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:42:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property References: <2eb84.41d8e742.38d563c1@aol.com> Message-ID: No clue. Sounded like they are brining in soil. But for me, not sure what can be grown on kitty litter, and zero water sources. Hey, I promise I didn't laugh. But then I'm no farmer. There might be something. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property > Just curious, what kind of crops can you grow out there....tumbleweeds? > :) > > Mike F. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 16:40:22 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:40:22 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers site update now posted Message-ID: <3B7E84281CFC4E61B1F8AC54B53AFACF@LaptopKrausert> Includes an image of the fence and gate. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/ Cheers, Robert From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 16:49:27 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:49:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale References: <4d5ff6a51003191519s75d5a27bi6aa69e1538f37f7@mail.gmail.com>, <8CC95CB28E9B826-2610-1DF51@Webmail-m122.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7327DB20EEF84A9BB0BE96ADC50D443B@LaptopKrausert> OK, boys and girls. One email was able to get Bill to drop the price by 1/3rd of a percent of the price. All we need is 299 more emails, and the buyer will just need to cover shipping. LOL. Just kidding Bill. But for me, I always go straight to Mr. Bee. Because Mr. Bee has always taken good care of me requests, plus as a club member get a little break from Mr. Bee's products Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: "gary lech" ; Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale > > That's what I paid for it. > > I haven't looked at Greg's site to see what the current prices are. > > Probably should have. He lowered the price the last time I looked it was > at or around $300. > > I'm open to offers. > > > > Package Deal $299 > > Includes GPS Transmitter, 750mah Battery, Charger, Serial Adapter and SMA > antenna > > > > > > > > This is what I have. The software disk is probably old news. Better to > get it fresh. > > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:32:15 -0400 >> From: glech at aol.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale >> >> >> I had the same thought. Perhaps you can offer a few more details. I'm in >> the market for one. >> >> >> Cheers from ~ >> Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Cox >> To: NW Rocketry Group >> Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2010 3:19 pm >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale >> >> >> Bill >> What am I missing here? >> basic 70cm BeeLine GPS Kit (Trnsmitter, battery, charger and adapter) is >> 289 new. (Software is free from BRB) >> Is this a High Power, 2 Meter or other package? >> hanks >> ohn >> >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Bill Munds wrote: >> > >> I thought I would give everyone here a shot at this first before I went >> elsewhere. >> >> >> >> Complete BeelineGPS for sale. Transmitter w/battery, charger, software. >> >> $300obo >> >> >> >> Bill at PSP >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From appusher at q.com Fri Mar 19 17:04:24 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 00:04:24 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale In-Reply-To: <7327DB20EEF84A9BB0BE96ADC50D443B@LaptopKrausert> References: <4d5ff6a51003191519s75d5a27bi6aa69e1538f37f7@mail.gmail.com>, <8CC95CB28E9B826-2610-1DF51@Webmail-m122.sysops.aol.com> , <7327DB20EEF84A9BB0BE96ADC50D443B@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: Robert, See that's why I like you. Always a card. Price was just what I paid for it. Being unemployed, it's not like I will be getting a receiver for $350 anytime soon. Given Greg's website price, I can see that a lower price would be prudent. I'm open to offers. EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: appusher at q.com; glech at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:49:27 -0700 > > OK, boys and girls. One email was able to get Bill to drop the price by > 1/3rd of a percent of the price. All we need is 299 more emails, and the > buyer will just need to cover shipping. > > LOL. Just kidding Bill. > > But for me, I always go straight to Mr. Bee. Because Mr. Bee has always > taken good care of me requests, plus as a club member get a little break > from Mr. Bee's products > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Munds" > To: "gary lech" ; > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:23 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale > > > > > > That's what I paid for it. > > > > I haven't looked at Greg's site to see what the current prices are. > > > > Probably should have. He lowered the price the last time I looked it was > > at or around $300. > > > > I'm open to offers. > > > > > > > > Package Deal $299 > > > > Includes GPS Transmitter, 750mah Battery, Charger, Serial Adapter and SMA > > antenna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what I have. The software disk is probably old news. Better to > > get it fresh. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > > Join me > > > > > > > >> To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:32:15 -0400 > >> From: glech at aol.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale > >> > >> > >> I had the same thought. Perhaps you can offer a few more details. I'm in > >> the market for one. > >> > >> > >> Cheers from ~ > >> Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: John Cox > >> To: NW Rocketry Group > >> Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2010 3:19 pm > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BeelineGPS for sale > >> > >> > >> Bill > >> What am I missing here? > >> basic 70cm BeeLine GPS Kit (Trnsmitter, battery, charger and adapter) is > >> 289 new. (Software is free from BRB) > >> Is this a High Power, 2 Meter or other package? > >> hanks > >> ohn > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > >> > > >> I thought I would give everyone here a shot at this first before I went > >> elsewhere. > >> > >> > >> > >> Complete BeelineGPS for sale. Transmitter w/battery, charger, software. > >> > >> $300obo > >> > >> > >> > >> Bill at PSP > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From greg at bigredbee.com Fri Mar 19 17:07:17 2010 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:07:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property In-Reply-To: References: <2eb84.41d8e742.38d563c1@aol.com> Message-ID: Most excellent news! On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > No clue. Sounded like they are brining in soil. But for me, not sure what > can be grown on kitty litter, and zero water sources. > > Hey, I promise I didn't laugh. But then I'm no farmer. There might be > something. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property > > > > Just curious, what kind of crops can you grow out there....tumbleweeds? :) >> >> Mike F. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 17:23:21 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:23:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property In-Reply-To: References: <2eb84.41d8e742.38d563c1@aol.com> Message-ID: They can actually grow just about everything. The second step is to strip the land of the sage and sift out the larger litter, rocks, and boulders. The third step is either getting irrigation setup or going dry. Dry means they limit themselves to wheat, barley, oats, clover and a few others. Having grown up on our family farm about 60 miles north of Umatilla the differences are mot much other then my Grandfather and Dad were the ones that did the clearing and sifting about 30 year before I was born. I wish them the best in their endeavor as it will not be an easy living. Chris Guenther NAR L2 On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Greg Clark wrote: > Most excellent news! > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Robert Krausert > wrote: > > > No clue. Sounded like they are brining in soil. But for me, not sure what > > can be grown on kitty litter, and zero water sources. > > > > Hey, I promise I didn't laugh. But then I'm no farmer. There might be > > something. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:33 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring > Property > > > > > > > > Just curious, what kind of crops can you grow out there....tumbleweeds? > :) > >> > >> Mike F. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From greg at bigredbee.com Fri Mar 19 18:10:13 2010 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:10:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mentor In-Reply-To: <009d01cac7bb$dc474330$94d5c990$@com> References: <4BA4022E.8050700@skagitlapidary.com> <009d01cac7bb$dc474330$94d5c990$@com> Message-ID: MOUNT VERNON, WA On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > Where are you located? I would be glad to help. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dave Ebersole > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:01 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Mentor > > Hello All, > > I think Napoleon Hill wrote, " The best way to navigate through a mine > field is to follow someone.", so I am looking for a mentor > in the NW area willing to supervise me in the construction of my level 1 > and 2 rockets. I have searched for a person closer to me > but have had no luck. Even if I have to tele-build, I have unlimited > phone service, and I would call anywhere. > > Thanks, > Dave > KB7DCD > NAR "Level 1 or Bust" > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bjarchow at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 18:20:36 2010 From: bjarchow at gmail.com (Brian Jarchow) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:20:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mentor In-Reply-To: <4BA4022E.8050700@skagitlapidary.com> References: <4BA4022E.8050700@skagitlapidary.com> Message-ID: Have you chosen a kit yet? And how much help do you want? On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Dave Ebersole wrote: > Hello All, > > I think Napoleon Hill wrote, " The best way to navigate through a mine > field is to follow someone.", so I am looking for a mentor > in the NW area willing to supervise me in the construction of my level 1 > and 2 rockets. I have searched for a person closer to me > but have had no luck. Even if I have to tele-build, I have unlimited > phone service, and I would call anywhere. > > Thanks, > Dave > KB7DCD > NAR "Level 1 or Bust" > From tnetcenter at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 18:14:07 2010 From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:14:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property References: <2eb84.41d8e742.38d563c1@aol.com> Message-ID: That suggests that it may be possible to get back any rockets that have been lost out that a way. :-) Maybe a recovery fee or reward will help to make for good landowner relations :-) Jeff Moore BORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Guenther" They can actually grow just about everything. The second step is to strip the land of the sage and sift out the larger litter, rocks, and boulders. The third step is either getting irrigation setup or going dry. Dry means they limit themselves to wheat, barley, oats, clover and a few others. Having grown up on our family farm about 60 miles north of Umatilla the differences are mot much other then my Grandfather and Dad were the ones that did the clearing and sifting about 30 year before I was born. I wish them the best in their endeavor as it will not be an easy living. Chris Guenther NAR L2 On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Greg Clark wrote: > Most excellent news! > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Robert Krausert > wrote: > > > No clue. Sounded like they are brining in soil. But for me, not sure > > what > > can be grown on kitty litter, and zero water sources. > > > > Hey, I promise I didn't laugh. But then I'm no farmer. There might be > > something. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:33 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring > Property > > > > > > > > Just curious, what kind of crops can you grow out there....tumbleweeds? > :) > >> > >> Mike F. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 18:53:57 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:53:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 Message-ID: <6364DCB464D749CE9BEC711FFDD5BF86@LaptopKrausert> Hello, As you all know, I notified NAR and TRA that we in the Pacaific Northwest was doing a going over the total number of flights during sanctioned events. Still most major events are coming. I see us blowing the 2010 flights goal out the door. Reminder to event organizers, please send your flight tally at the end of the event. Tracking the total on the NWR ticker, and tracking each events tally on the calendar page. http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17 Cheers, Robert From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 19:01:44 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:01:44 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Certifications in 2010 Message-ID: Same as last year, we are tracking and acknowledging those that recieve their L1, L2 and or L3 certification. The amazing 2009 certification list is available at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=1258 We are tracking the 2010 certifications at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=1848 As for 2010, we already have two. Archive this email. If you certify for a level in 2010 send me the following details, and it will be posted. Your Name, Location of Event, National Organization, Month Received, Motor Details, and Rocket Name. Cheers, Robert From stefan_jones at comcast.net Fri Mar 19 20:44:42 2010 From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (Stefan Jones) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:44:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Certifications in 2010 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1954670182.1741181269056682616.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I should really try to recertify this year . . . twenty years after my first TRA certification, and forty years after getting my first Estes catalog. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 7:01:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Certifications in 2010 Same as last year, we are tracking and acknowledging those that recieve their L1, L2 and or L3 certification. The amazing 2009 certification list is available at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=1258 We are tracking the 2010 certifications at: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=1848 As for 2010, we already have two. Archive this email. If you certify for a level in 2010 send me the following details, and it will be posted. Your Name, Location of Event, National Organization, Month Received, Motor Details, and Rocket Name. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 20:56:54 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:56:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Certifications in 2010 References: <1954670182.1741181269056682616.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <7EF23E121C93463AB0FE4FA518C79408@LaptopKrausert> What do mean Stefan? You can cert in a heartbeat. Just another flight for you. Certainly get your certs again!!! You can certainly get it, no brainer. The experience nd rockets. You should be ready to go. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Jones" Cc: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Certifications in 2010 >I should really try to recertify this year . . . twenty years after my >first TRA certification, and forty years after getting my first Estes >catalog. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 7:01:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [RocketsNW] Certifications in 2010 > > Same as last year, we are tracking and acknowledging those that recieve > their L1, L2 and or L3 certification. > > The amazing 2009 certification list is available at: > http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=1258 > > We are tracking the 2010 certifications at: > http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=1848 > > As for 2010, we already have two. Archive this email. If you certify for a > level in 2010 send me the following details, and it will be posted. > > Your Name, Location of Event, National Organization, Month Received, Motor > Details, and Rocket Name. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rocketsrfun at msn.com Fri Mar 19 21:51:45 2010 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 21:51:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property In-Reply-To: <2eb84.41d8e742.38d563c1@aol.com> References: <2eb84.41d8e742.38d563c1@aol.com> Message-ID: Could be a windmills? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property Just curious, what kind of crops can you grow out there....tumbleweeds? :) Mike F. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 22:10:14 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:10:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 In-Reply-To: <6364DCB464D749CE9BEC711FFDD5BF86@LaptopKrausert> References: <6364DCB464D749CE9BEC711FFDD5BF86@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: Are we also keeping track of kids flights far the NAR 50k kids challenge? Chris Guenther On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Hello, > As you all know, I notified NAR and TRA that we in the Pacaific Northwest > was doing a going over the total number of flights during sanctioned events. > > Still most major events are coming. I see us blowing the 2010 flights goal > out the door. > > Reminder to event organizers, please send your flight tally at the end of > the event. Tracking the total on the NWR ticker, and tracking each events > tally on the calendar page. > http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17 > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Mar 19 22:18:36 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] 03/13 Wilsonville Memorial Park Launch Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9141543c535194534c7120b4b00eecd4.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Keith, Do you really want to launch rockets on the 40th anniversary of Apollo 13? ;-) At least make sure there are plenty of charms for good luck. If everyone who launches a rocket eats a doughnut you should be ok. +McG+ > Thanks to the great efforts of Mike Ward and Robert Krausert for getting > the launch going this month! I couldn't be there at the start, so Mike > drove my minivan down to the park full of GSE and Robert showed up early > to help set things up. > > What a great day though! It was a bit cloudy, but there wasn't any rain > and it seemed like we had a few sun breaks. We had a huge crowd this > month, Tim Ryerse said he had counted 60+ people at one point. Rack > after rack of rockets made us start to wonder if 6 rods was enough > anymore. If this keeps up, I'll need to invest in a larger launch > controller and some more PVC piping and drill chucks! > > We usually set up in the middle of the ball fields, but this month the > city asked us to move to the western edge of the park. The last time we > were over there, the winds were out of the east, and we had quite a > number of rockets in the trees. This month, the winds were from the > west, driving rockets down the long axis of the park. Even still, > a few rockets made it all the way to the other side of the park. > > And, the usual stats: > > Launches: 88 > Successful flights: 83 > Flyers: 42 > Rockets: 66 > Most Flights: 8 Abraham K > Biggest Motor: F20 Steve Tarr > > Abraham came with two quarks and just kept loading motors and > flying. I'm amazed that he was able to find them after each flight. And, > of course, Steve was flying saucers with the biggest motors he could > safely use. > > Thanks to Mary Anne Ryerse who sent along green-frosted cupcakes for > St. Patrick's day; she bakes a mean cupcake. And, thanks again to Mike > and Robert for setting up, and then to the huge crew who stayed to help > pick things up afterwards. > > We're back next month, but with the warmer weather, we're moving to > Sunday April 11th from 2pm until 5pm. Come out and fly with us! > > -keith > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 22:43:20 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:43:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 References: <6364DCB464D749CE9BEC711FFDD5BF86@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <4D994582CDD1467CB9F5C8B19728A1C9@LaptopKrausert> NAR might be, we locally are not Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Guenther To: Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 Are we also keeping track of kids flights far the NAR 50k kids challenge? Chris Guenther On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: Hello, As you all know, I notified NAR and TRA that we in the Pacaific Northwest was doing a going over the total number of flights during sanctioned events. Still most major events are coming. I see us blowing the 2010 flights goal out the door. Reminder to event organizers, please send your flight tally at the end of the event. Tracking the total on the NWR ticker, and tracking each events tally on the calendar page. http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17 Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Fri Mar 19 22:44:51 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:44:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? In-Reply-To: References: <1FF8039AEC6745D391464C288C93B80D@Desktop>, , Message-ID: What's the likelyhood that this event will take place? I'm thinking seriously about going for my Level 1 at FITS this year and an event like this would seal the deal for me. I'm definitely interested! -brad > From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:55:33 -0700 > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > > You guys organize it, I will come up with a prize! > Bob > On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > > > Mark, > > Agreed. The challenge should be; Break 5280 feet AGL with the smallest motor. Smallest wins. Sure a Billy Ray Cyrus Dart can break 5280 feet with a J350. Can do 10K. But how high can you go with the smallest motor. Mile on the lowest. ;-) > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Mark Dunkle > > To: oroc list > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:26 PM > > Subject: [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > > > > A mile high contest may be fun for Oroc to do out at Brothers. Just thinking out loud..........Mark > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Members mailing list > > Members at oregonrocketry.org > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > _______________________________________________ > > Members mailing list > > Members at oregonrocketry.org > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Mar 19 22:48:08 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring Property In-Reply-To: References: <2eb84.41d8e742.38d563c1@aol.com> Message-ID: <62caf8600fe23424616e00bd608fb99f.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> With or without irrigation the first few years might even be just soil-building crops like clover that get plowed under and management techniques to kill off any sage that tries to regrow from seeds. Like Chris said, with irrigation they could grow all kinds of stuff. But even "farming dry" there are still crops that will grow out there, just not at the kinds of yield levels that come from irrigation. Much of what is now sage across the West was once grassland prairie--sage is an aggressive weed. Here on the farm I'm in a perpetual struggle against a small patch of sage's bigger, nastier cousin: Scotch broom. And we have two "stone bridges" across small gullies that are rock piles from clearing the fields long ago. We'll just have to wait and see what gets grown out there. Hopefully something we can walk through. +McG+ > They can actually grow just about everything. The second step is to strip > the land of the sage and sift out the larger litter, rocks, and boulders. > The third step is either getting irrigation setup or going dry. Dry means > they limit themselves to wheat, barley, oats, clover and a few others. > Having grown up on our family farm about 60 miles north of Umatilla the > differences are mot much other then my Grandfather and Dad were the ones > that did the clearing and sifting about 30 year before I was born. I wish > them the best in their endeavor as it will not be an easy living. > > Chris Guenther > NAR L2 > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Greg Clark wrote: > >> Most excellent news! >> >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Robert Krausert >> wrote: >> >> > No clue. Sounded like they are brining in soil. But for me, not sure >> what >> > can be grown on kitty litter, and zero water sources. >> > >> > Hey, I promise I didn't laugh. But then I'm no farmer. There might be >> > something. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 4:33 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Site Update; Neighboring >> Property >> > >> > >> > >> > Just curious, what kind of crops can you grow out >> there....tumbleweeds? >> :) >> >> >> >> Mike F. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat Mar 20 00:59:09 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 00:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check Message-ID: ...and my insanity check. Yup, still nuts! :) Been crunching a few numbers and looking at sand under a microscope. Without getting into another gawdawful long project it's not possible to be very precise but a few useful numbers do appear. The commercial white sand I have has most of the grains being between about 1/3 mm and 3/4 mm in diameter. Putting the relevant figures into the equation for terminal velocity gave the following rough guess: The largest grains falling through air near sea level should take about one minute to fall 1000 feet. The smallest falling from ten kilometers(32,800 feet) could take an hour and a quarter to reach ground. As for dispersion, well, that's way too complex to model. Quick 'n dirty calcs show "something like" 200,000 sand grains per ounce. One ounce spread over one acre(which might be what you'd get from a release at 1000 feet) is about five sand grains per square foot. That would be noticeable by people on the ground. Dump out a pound at 30,000 feet and if it spreads out over one square mile you've got about one grain of sand per square yard. One grain per square yard hitting ground between one-half to one-and-a-half hours later. ;-) If you want more precise numbers to better figure what you can get away with, that's your problem! +McG+ From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 20 10:41:06 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:41:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? References: <1FF8039AEC6745D391464C288C93B80D@Desktop>, , Message-ID: Dunkle's mile high club contest is a go. And we have a sponsor. Check out the details on the main page. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/ Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad McClure" To: ; Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > > What's the likelyhood that this event will take place? I'm thinking > seriously about going for my Level 1 at FITS this year and an event like > this would seal the deal for me. I'm definitely interested! > > > > -brad > >> From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:55:33 -0700 >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? >> >> You guys organize it, I will come up with a prize! >> Bob >> On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: >> >> > Mark, >> > Agreed. The challenge should be; Break 5280 feet AGL with the smallest >> > motor. Smallest wins. Sure a Billy Ray Cyrus Dart can break 5280 feet >> > with a J350. Can do 10K. But how high can you go with the smallest >> > motor. Mile on the lowest. ;-) >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Mark Dunkle >> > To: oroc list >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:26 PM >> > Subject: [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? >> > >> > A mile high contest may be fun for Oroc to do out at Brothers. Just >> > thinking out loud..........Mark >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Members mailing list >> > Members at oregonrocketry.org >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Members mailing list >> > Members at oregonrocketry.org >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members >> >> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager >> >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 >> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 >> >> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our >> natural world. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From stevet19759 at comcast.net Sat Mar 20 12:22:59 2010 From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:22:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 In-Reply-To: <4D994582CDD1467CB9F5C8B19728A1C9@LaptopKrausert> References: <6364DCB464D749CE9BEC711FFDD5BF86@LaptopKrausert> <4D994582CDD1467CB9F5C8B19728A1C9@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <4BA52093.5080701@comcast.net> Chris, We'd need to coordinate with Keith, who has the most up-to-date launch records for Wilsonville. Are you interesed in putting this data together? It's mostly a matter of collecting flight cards and knowing which were kids and which adults. Should we add a checkbox to the flight card for "under 18" and another for "over 18, but doesn't act like it around rockets?" -Steve Robert Krausert wrote: > NAR might be, we locally are not > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christopher Guenther > To: Robert Krausert > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:10 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 > > > Are we also keeping track of kids flights far the NAR 50k kids challenge? > > Chris Guenther > > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > > Hello, > As you all know, I notified NAR and TRA that we in the Pacaific Northwest was doing a going over the total number of flights during sanctioned events. > > Still most major events are coming. I see us blowing the 2010 flights goal out the door. > > Reminder to event organizers, please send your flight tally at the end of the event. Tracking the total on the NWR ticker, and tracking each events tally on the calendar page. > http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17 > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 20 12:47:27 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:47:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 References: <6364DCB464D749CE9BEC711FFDD5BF86@LaptopKrausert> <4D994582CDD1467CB9F5C8B19728A1C9@LaptopKrausert> <4BA52093.5080701@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4F5DB2AF438A4B188FFA78D0A14988BA@LaptopKrausert> Steve/Chris, NAR data collection for the 50K challenge is just number of kids that are flying a rocket for the first time. Maybe the safest way is simply ask for a show of hands at any launch, "how many are first time flyers." The check box of "under 18" might be a concern legally. Cards from kids 13 and younger must be destroyed. But with our cards today, no one knows by the card details age information. And the law for the childrens protection act state that we cannot even ask age, and can't ask if they are 13 or younger. Asking for a show of hands, then we simply count those that appear under age 18. And send that number, plus event details to NAR. That way we can avoid any personal information, avoid profiling, and avoid asking of age. Sorry Steve. Just want to be careful. Been involved in setting up and managing contact centers for over 14 years. The Childrens protection act for 13 and younger is one that is very strict. I do however like the "over 18, but don't act like it with rockets" check box. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Tarr" To: "Robert Krausert" Cc: "Christopher Guenther" ; Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 > Chris, > We'd need to coordinate with Keith, who has the most up-to-date launch > records for Wilsonville. Are you interesed in putting this data together? > It's mostly a matter of collecting flight cards and knowing > which were kids and which adults. Should we add a checkbox to the flight > card for "under 18" and another for "over 18, but doesn't act like it > around rockets?" > -Steve > > Robert Krausert wrote: >> NAR might be, we locally are not >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Christopher Guenther To: Robert Krausert Cc: >> rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 >> >> >> Are we also keeping track of kids flights far the NAR 50k kids >> challenge? >> >> Chris Guenther >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Robert Krausert >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> As you all know, I notified NAR and TRA that we in the Pacaific >> Northwest was doing a going over the total number of flights during >> sanctioned events. >> >> Still most major events are coming. I see us blowing the 2010 flights >> goal out the door. >> >> Reminder to event organizers, please send your flight tally at the >> end of the event. Tracking the total on the NWR ticker, and tracking each >> events tally on the calendar page. >> http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17 >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Sat Mar 20 12:57:31 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:57:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? In-Reply-To: References: <1FF8039AEC6745D391464C288C93B80D@Desktop>, , , Message-ID: Yikes, OROC Summer Skys and then FITS on back to back weekends :-o This may be a challenge to pull off. I definitely need to finalize what I intend to build/fly and get started ASAP! Thanks for the update -brad > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: bradmcclure at hotmail.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:41:06 -0700 > > Dunkle's mile high club contest is a go. And we have a sponsor. > > Check out the details on the main page. > http://www.oregonrocketry.com/ > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad McClure" > To: ; > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:44 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > > > > > > What's the likelyhood that this event will take place? I'm thinking > > seriously about going for my Level 1 at FITS this year and an event like > > this would seal the deal for me. I'm definitely interested! > > > > > > > > -brad > > > >> From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > >> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:55:33 -0700 > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > >> > >> You guys organize it, I will come up with a prize! > >> Bob > >> On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > >> > >> > Mark, > >> > Agreed. The challenge should be; Break 5280 feet AGL with the smallest > >> > motor. Smallest wins. Sure a Billy Ray Cyrus Dart can break 5280 feet > >> > with a J350. Can do 10K. But how high can you go with the smallest > >> > motor. Mile on the lowest. ;-) > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > Robert > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Mark Dunkle > >> > To: oroc list > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:26 PM > >> > Subject: [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > >> > > >> > A mile high contest may be fun for Oroc to do out at Brothers. Just > >> > thinking out loud..........Mark > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Members mailing list > >> > Members at oregonrocketry.org > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Members mailing list > >> > Members at oregonrocketry.org > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > >> > >> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > >> > >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > >> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > >> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > >> > >> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > >> natural world. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 20 13:05:31 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:05:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? References: <1FF8039AEC6745D391464C288C93B80D@Desktop>, , , Message-ID: One correction. This is the Spring Thunder launch (thank Gary Lech). My bad for mixing event names and dates. But, the date remains the same, May 21st - 23rd. Do them both Brad. During the week between, go visit Burns, Boise, Baker, etc. Then finish the week arriving at Mansfield. Great way to kill time between the two events. Plus makes for a nice long vacation. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad McClure To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 12:57 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? Yikes, OROC Summer Skys and then FITS on back to back weekends :-o This may be a challenge to pull off. I definitely need to finalize what I intend to build/fly and get started ASAP! Thanks for the update -brad > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: bradmcclure at hotmail.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:41:06 -0700 > > Dunkle's mile high club contest is a go. And we have a sponsor. > > Check out the details on the main page. > http://www.oregonrocketry.com/ > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad McClure" > To: ; > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:44 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > > > > > > What's the likelyhood that this event will take place? I'm thinking > > seriously about going for my Level 1 at FITS this year and an event like > > this would seal the deal for me. I'm definitely interested! > > > > > > > > -brad > > > >> From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > >> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:55:33 -0700 > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > >> > >> You guys organize it, I will come up with a prize! > >> Bob > >> On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > >> > >> > Mark, > >> > Agreed. The challenge should be; Break 5280 feet AGL with the smallest > >> > motor. Smallest wins. Sure a Billy Ray Cyrus Dart can break 5280 feet > >> > with a J350. Can do 10K. But how high can you go with the smallest > >> > motor. Mile on the lowest. ;-) > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > Robert > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Mark Dunkle > >> > To: oroc list > >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:26 PM > >> > Subject: [OROC Members] Oroc mile high contest? > >> > > >> > A mile high contest may be fun for Oroc to do out at Brothers. Just > >> > thinking out loud..........Mark > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Members mailing list > >> > Members at oregonrocketry.org > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Members mailing list > >> > Members at oregonrocketry.org > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > >> > >> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > >> > >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > >> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > >> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > >> > >> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > >> natural world. > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 20 13:46:06 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:46:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check References: Message-ID: <16AF25A7E4824D18B57A5316149DA34E@LaptopKrausert> So glad you're still nuts. You're in good company. Believe the bell-curve factor needs to apply. As 80% of the material will fall in the 20% destination center range. Destinaton center will be a factor of "time to ground" and "wind speed in MPH." If the wind speed is five MPH and most land at one hour, that would indicate the destination center. Sign on X and Cosine on Z should predict popluation zone as applied to Y the time to ground and wind speed angle. You can also mess with free fall against orbit. If time to ground is 1 hour, then the destination center would be about 850 miles into the Pacific ocean to the west. But then we are getting into Quantum Mechanics theory. Observation theory from the origin, destination and side viewer points. The destination view sees the sand coming straight down. The side viewer see the sand falling towards the West. All impacting time and distance. Sorry. But fun. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 12:59 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check > ...and my insanity check. Yup, still nuts! :) > > Been crunching a few numbers and looking at sand under a microscope. > Without getting into another gawdawful long project it's not possible to > be very precise but a few useful numbers do appear. > > The commercial white sand I have has most of the grains being between > about 1/3 mm and 3/4 mm in diameter. Putting the relevant figures into > the equation for terminal velocity gave the following rough guess: > > The largest grains falling through air near sea level should take about > one minute to fall 1000 feet. The smallest falling from ten > kilometers(32,800 feet) could take an hour and a quarter to reach ground. > > As for dispersion, well, that's way too complex to model. Quick 'n dirty > calcs show "something like" 200,000 sand grains per ounce. One ounce > spread over one acre(which might be what you'd get from a release at 1000 > feet) is about five sand grains per square foot. That would be noticeable > by people on the ground. Dump out a pound at 30,000 feet and if it > spreads out over one square mile you've got about one grain of sand per > square yard. One grain per square yard hitting ground between one-half to > one-and-a-half hours later. ;-) > > If you want more precise numbers to better figure what you can get away > with, that's your problem! > +McG+ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 20 19:49:47 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:49:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 References: <6364DCB464D749CE9BEC711FFDD5BF86@LaptopKrausert><4D994582CDD1467CB9F5C8B19728A1C9@LaptopKrausert><4BA52093.5080701@comcast.net><4F5DB2AF438A4B188FFA78D0A14988BA@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <00AC1214BC1B4F1FA68F246E93EFD7C5@LaptopKrausert> Keith, You're reports have been spot on. No worries there. No ages nentioned and for the younger folks, using just a first name ans last initial. As stated, I prefer not to create a new flight card. That keeps us safe, especially about age. Having us ask at each launch "who new, first rocket" will let us count and no records of the individuals. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Packard" To: "Robert Krausert" ; Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat Mar 20 23:01:00 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 23:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check In-Reply-To: <16AF25A7E4824D18B57A5316149DA34E@LaptopKrausert> References: <16AF25A7E4824D18B57A5316149DA34E@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <38c5d729cf5dcb54d99bec2e6b151f09.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Robert, I mulled over thoughts like those you list. A look through my handy 50x pocket microscope clearly showed that particle sizes, shapes and Cd's couldn't be modeled worth a darn. Any even modestly accurate numbers would have to come from miserably thorough experimental measurements. Fortunately, my obsessive-compulsive perfectionist tendency is well counterbalanced by a strong laziness trait. :) I just assumed Cd between 1 and 2 and said to heck with thinking about factors like lift and drift from tumbling and wind velocity changing with altitude and all that other stuff that makes my brain hurt from thinking too much. So I settled for back of the envelope type analysis to get *some idea* of things. I've pretty well convinced myself that dumping out sand ballast from a few thousand feet at public launches is probably "a bad idea." What's the old saying, "Sand in your eye?" But doing so at places like Black Rock or Argonia from stratospheric apogees probably presents no problem. So if I'm FSO'ing at an OROC launch and someone comes up to the table with a sand-ballast-dumping rocket, well....they'd better have some pretty impressive experimental measurements of sand falling from great heights to get by me. Fine non-toxic dust is something else, no problem there. Er, unless they use coffee creamer instead of chalk! +McG+ > So glad you're still nuts. You're in good company. > > Believe the bell-curve factor needs to apply. As 80% of the material will > fall in the 20% destination center range. Destinaton center will be a > factor > of "time to ground" and "wind speed in MPH." If the wind speed is five MPH > and most land at one hour, that would indicate the destination center. > Sign > on X and Cosine on Z should predict popluation zone as applied to Y the > time > to ground and wind speed angle. You can also mess with free fall against > orbit. If time to ground is 1 hour, then the destination center would be > about 850 miles into the Pacific ocean to the west. But then we are > getting > into Quantum Mechanics theory. Observation theory from the origin, > destination and side viewer points. The destination view sees the sand > coming straight down. The side viewer see the sand falling towards the > West. > All impacting time and distance. > > Sorry. But fun. > > Cheers, > Robert > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 12:59 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check > > >> ...and my insanity check. Yup, still nuts! :) >> >> Been crunching a few numbers and looking at sand under a microscope. >> Without getting into another gawdawful long project it's not possible to >> be very precise but a few useful numbers do appear. >> >> The commercial white sand I have has most of the grains being between >> about 1/3 mm and 3/4 mm in diameter. Putting the relevant figures into >> the equation for terminal velocity gave the following rough guess: >> >> The largest grains falling through air near sea level should take about >> one minute to fall 1000 feet. The smallest falling from ten >> kilometers(32,800 feet) could take an hour and a quarter to reach >> ground. >> >> As for dispersion, well, that's way too complex to model. Quick 'n >> dirty >> calcs show "something like" 200,000 sand grains per ounce. One ounce >> spread over one acre(which might be what you'd get from a release at >> 1000 >> feet) is about five sand grains per square foot. That would be >> noticeable >> by people on the ground. Dump out a pound at 30,000 feet and if it >> spreads out over one square mile you've got about one grain of sand per >> square yard. One grain per square yard hitting ground between one-half >> to >> one-and-a-half hours later. ;-) >> >> If you want more precise numbers to better figure what you can get away >> with, that's your problem! >> +McG+ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From t.j.doll at att.net Sat Mar 20 23:51:56 2010 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:51:56 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] The misadventures of Ingraham's TARC teams... Message-ID: <032120100651.24603.4BA5C20C0006A4390000601B22230650029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> >Took the kids out to Sixty this morning, since it was a professional development >day and they didn't have class (and my principal said I'm professionally >developed enough this year...). Looks to me like a forward O-ring failure - and once the combustion gases are going forward nothing good is going to happen. I had pretty much the same thing happen with an 'E' 24/40 at NARAM 50. A very nicely built Q-Modeling Bull Pup on it's maiden flight turned into a flaming wreck that landed in front of the RSO (they actually had to use fire extingishers), and it ruined the forward closure on the only 24/40 casing I'd bothered to ship cross-country (which was also when I discovered that the 24/60 forward closure wouldn't work). No, I didn't call Aerotech. Tim From seth.wallace at rocketmail.com Sun Mar 21 07:55:07 2010 From: seth.wallace at rocketmail.com (Seth Wallace) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check In-Reply-To: <38c5d729cf5dcb54d99bec2e6b151f09.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <840469.4834.qm@web65305.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> I loosely followed your thread. Somewhere along the line you mentioned water, probably a better idea instead of sand. Richard Hagen from Aeropac had great success using water to simulate the weight of a second stage. He made waterproof deployment charges out of pvc fittings and actually made a small cloud. There is some info on his website here http://redglarerockets.com/Waterworks.htm SW --- On Sat, 3/20/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check To: "Robert Krausert" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Saturday, March 20, 2010, 11:01 PM Robert, I mulled over thoughts like those you list. A look through my handy 50x pocket microscope clearly showed that particle sizes, shapes and Cd's couldn't be modeled worth a darn.? Any even modestly accurate numbers would have to come from miserably thorough experimental measurements. Fortunately, my obsessive-compulsive perfectionist tendency is well counterbalanced by a strong laziness trait.? :)? I just assumed Cd between 1 and 2 and said to heck with thinking about factors like lift and drift from tumbling and wind velocity changing with altitude and all that other stuff that makes my brain hurt from thinking too much. So I settled for back of the envelope type analysis to get *some idea* of things.? I've pretty well convinced myself that dumping out sand ballast from a few thousand feet at public launches is probably "a bad idea." What's the old saying, "Sand in your eye?"? But doing so at places like Black Rock or Argonia from stratospheric apogees probably presents no problem. So if I'm FSO'ing at an OROC launch and someone comes up to the table with a sand-ballast-dumping rocket, well....they'd better have some pretty impressive experimental measurements of sand falling from great heights to get by me.? Fine non-toxic dust is something else, no problem there.? Er, unless they use coffee creamer instead of chalk! +McG+ > So glad you're still nuts. You're in good company. > > Believe the bell-curve factor needs to apply. As 80% of the material will > fall in the 20% destination center range. Destinaton center will be a > factor > of "time to ground" and "wind speed in MPH." If the wind speed is five MPH > and most land at one hour, that would indicate the destination center. > Sign > on X and Cosine on Z should predict popluation zone as applied to Y the > time > to ground and wind speed angle. You can also mess with free fall against > orbit. If time to ground is 1 hour, then the destination center would be > about 850 miles into the Pacific ocean to the west. But then we are > getting > into Quantum Mechanics theory. Observation theory from the origin, > destination and side viewer points. The destination view sees the sand > coming straight down. The side viewer see the sand falling towards the > West. > All impacting time and distance. > > Sorry. But fun. > > Cheers, > Robert > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 12:59 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check > > >> ...and my insanity check.? Yup, still nuts!? :) >> >> Been crunching a few numbers and looking at sand under a microscope. >> Without getting into another gawdawful long project it's not possible to >> be very precise but a few useful numbers do appear. >> >> The commercial white sand I have has most of the grains being between >> about 1/3 mm and 3/4 mm in diameter.? Putting the relevant figures into >> the equation for terminal velocity gave the following rough guess: >> >> The largest grains falling through air near sea level should take about >> one minute to fall 1000 feet.? The smallest falling from ten >> kilometers(32,800 feet) could take an hour and a quarter to reach >> ground. >> >> As for dispersion, well, that's way too complex to model.? Quick 'n >> dirty >> calcs show "something like" 200,000 sand grains per ounce.? One ounce >> spread over one acre(which might be what you'd get from a release at >> 1000 >> feet) is about five sand grains per square foot.? That would be >> noticeable >> by people on the ground.? Dump out a pound at 30,000 feet and if it >> spreads out over one square mile you've got about one grain of sand per >> square yard.? One grain per square yard hitting ground between one-half >> to >> one-and-a-half hours later.? ;-) >> >> If you want more precise numbers to better figure what you can get away >> with, that's your problem! >> +McG+ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From carl at mousetrap.com Sun Mar 21 09:29:48 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:29:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reminder: Washington Aerospace March Launch Message-ID: The Washington Aerospace March launch, Sprint Festivus, is just a week away, on March 27th and 28th. The launch will be conducted just west of Mansfield at the Sportsmen's Club: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php. We will be observing an 8,000' AGL ceiling from the race track. Washington Aerospace members fly for free. Non-members will be charged a $10/weekend/family launch fee. If you haven't renewed your membership for 2010, now is a great time to do it. To make things easy, you can do it online and pay using PayPal: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/membership_form.php. If I have not received a liability waiver from you for 2010, you will need to provide one upon arrival: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php. This launch will be operated as a "small" launch, meaning that I won't be hauling the entire trailer to Mansfield. I will be coming with just enough GSE for a few high-power pads, a few mid-power pads, and a single rack of low-power pads. I haven't heard from anybody that needs the away cell, so it won't be available. If there is something special you need, please make the appropriate arrangements. If you plan to attend, but haven't let me know, I would appreciate hearing from you so that I can get a feel for how many people will be there. If you plan on any certification activities, be sure to contact whoever you'll need to witness a flight or administer a test. If you have any questions, please feel free to send me mail. Hope to see you next weekend! - Carl From gbrandt at nwic.edu Sun Mar 21 11:49:36 2010 From: gbrandt at nwic.edu (Gary Brandt) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:49:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reminder: Washington Aerospace March Launch References: Message-ID: <28824CE077894D418D44F35AF6CE8C160CDC61@dolphin.nwic.edu> Hey Carl, We are just starting to get into rockety and I would like to bring a couple of students to watch on Sunday. What time do think the activities will be on Sunday? We are just now building some PML and LOC kits - no one has ever launched a rocket before, let alone be certified! If we were to bring a rocket or two, do think it would be possible to have some members check them over for flight suitablity? Thanks - Gary ----------------------------------------------------- Gary L. Brandt Faculty Computers/Robotics/Space Center http://blogs.nwic.edu/spacecenter 360-392-4318 ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Carl Hamilton Sent: Sun 3/21/2010 9:29 AM To: NorthWest Rocketry; WAC Members Subject: [RocketsNW] Reminder: Washington Aerospace March Launch The Washington Aerospace March launch, Sprint Festivus, is just a week away, on March 27th and 28th. The launch will be conducted just west of Mansfield at the Sportsmen's Club: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php. We will be observing an 8,000' AGL ceiling from the race track. Washington Aerospace members fly for free. Non-members will be charged a $10/weekend/family launch fee. If you haven't renewed your membership for 2010, now is a great time to do it. To make things easy, you can do it online and pay using PayPal: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/membership_form.php. If I have not received a liability waiver from you for 2010, you will need to provide one upon arrival: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php. This launch will be operated as a "small" launch, meaning that I won't be hauling the entire trailer to Mansfield. I will be coming with just enough GSE for a few high-power pads, a few mid-power pads, and a single rack of low-power pads. I haven't heard from anybody that needs the away cell, so it won't be available. If there is something special you need, please make the appropriate arrangements. If you plan to attend, but haven't let me know, I would appreciate hearing from you so that I can get a feel for how many people will be there. If you plan on any certification activities, be sure to contact whoever you'll need to witness a flight or administer a test. If you have any questions, please feel free to send me mail. Hope to see you next weekend! - Carl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Sun Mar 21 13:11:55 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:11:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reminder: Washington Aerospace March Launch In-Reply-To: <28824CE077894D418D44F35AF6CE8C160CDC61@dolphin.nwic.edu> References: <28824CE077894D418D44F35AF6CE8C160CDC61@dolphin.nwic.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Gary Brandt wrote: > Hey Carl, > > We are just starting to get into rockety and I would like to bring a couple > of students to watch on Sunday. What time do think the activities will be on > Sunday? > Gary - We would love it if you could join us for any part of the launch! We should be flying by 9:00AM on Sunday, earlier if the weather is nice and people are motivated. My guess is that we will be breaking down the range and packing up by 1:00PM in order to get home at a reasonable time. If you can only attend one day, and you can swing it, I would urge you to come on Saturday as will will be flying from early in the morning through the evening. While you can acquire a lot of "book smarts" by reading about high-power rocketry in books and on the web, nothing matches attending a real launch, watching how it all works, and talking to the flyers. We look forward to meeting you and your students. > > We are just now building some PML and LOC kits - no one has ever launched a > rocket before, let alone be certified! If we were to bring a rocket or two, > do think it would be possible to have some members check them over for > flight suitablity? > Absolutely bring whatever you have. I won't be flying this weekend so I should have time to take a look. However, I'm sure many people at the launch would be more than happy to look at what you have and offer their opinions/advice. While there are rocketeers that never fly models, you might consider picking up and building an Estes kit or two this week. You can learn a lot of the ins-and-outs of flying with models without the expense and complexity of mid- and high-power. See you in a week. - Carl From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 17:12:14 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:12:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 In-Reply-To: <4BA52093.5080701@comcast.net> References: <6364DCB464D749CE9BEC711FFDD5BF86@LaptopKrausert> <4D994582CDD1467CB9F5C8B19728A1C9@LaptopKrausert> <4BA52093.5080701@comcast.net> Message-ID: Steve I think we should have a section on the card for have you ever launched a rocket before check yes or no, and are you over 18 yes or no. That would solve that. I guess we also need a box to fill in for how many motors you have cato'ed....lol...;-P I would not mind going through the flight cards to see if I can't get an accurate tally of those under 18 and the first timers. Maybe we should have a contest to see who can bring in the most newbies to the hobby? Chris Guenther On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Steve Tarr wrote: > Chris, > We'd need to coordinate with Keith, who has the most up-to-date launch > records for Wilsonville. Are you interesed in putting this data together? > It's mostly a matter of collecting flight cards and knowing > which were kids and which adults. Should we add a checkbox to the flight > card for "under 18" and another for "over 18, but doesn't act like it around > rockets?" > -Steve > > > Robert Krausert wrote: > >> NAR might be, we locally are not >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Guenther To: Robert >> Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:10 >> PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Currently @ 314 flights, goal of 2010 in 2010 >> >> >> Are we also keeping track of kids flights far the NAR 50k kids challenge? >> >> Chris Guenther >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Robert Krausert < >> lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> As you all know, I notified NAR and TRA that we in the Pacaific >> Northwest was doing a going over the total number of flights during >> sanctioned events. >> >> Still most major events are coming. I see us blowing the 2010 flights >> goal out the door. >> >> Reminder to event organizers, please send your flight tally at the end >> of the event. Tracking the total on the NWR ticker, and tracking each events >> tally on the calendar page. >> http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17 >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 17:23:44 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:23:44 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Spacing of large holes in fins? Message-ID: I have a brid that has some large 1/4" G10 fins which has flown great a couple of times. It just happens to be on the heavy side with the fincan being the heaviest part of the rocket. The rest of the airframe is weighted in specific areas to keep the CP/CG ratio well into overstable. I am looking to shorten the bird and remove about 4 LBS total dry weight from it. The only way I can think of to shed some weight from the fincan is to use my hole saws and come up with a neat pattern that will be the same on all the fins and also to remove the tailcone and replace it with a 1/8" centering ring. My big question is what should be a good spacing not only from the outer edges of the fins to the holes but from hole to hole as well? From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Sun Mar 21 19:04:52 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 02:04:52 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Spacing of large holes in fins? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2078259367-1269223438-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-971045140-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I think the more significant consideration should be; what will the holes do to the function of the fins. By drilling holes in the fins you will be reducing the effective surface area. That is, if you uniformly drill out half of the total fin it would be like cutting the fin size in half. That said, if you are going to drill out the fins, from an aerodynamic standpoint, it makes more sense to drill out more area closer to the air frame, the surface area at the tips of the fins has a bigger impact on the flight of the rocket than the fin near the air frame. If I were the one doing the drilling I would put the priority on the edges (leave as much of the fin at the edges as possible) but I might be inclined to just make the fins smaller and leave them whole. You could consider a taper on the fins too, with the fins being 1/4 inch you could sand those edges to 1/8 inch and drop a lot of mass too. Braibish -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Guenther Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:23:44 To: Subject: [RocketsNW] Spacing of large holes in fins? I have a brid that has some large 1/4" G10 fins which has flown great a couple of times. It just happens to be on the heavy side with the fincan being the heaviest part of the rocket. The rest of the airframe is weighted in specific areas to keep the CP/CG ratio well into overstable. I am looking to shorten the bird and remove about 4 LBS total dry weight from it. The only way I can think of to shed some weight from the fincan is to use my hole saws and come up with a neat pattern that will be the same on all the fins and also to remove the tailcone and replace it with a 1/8" centering ring. My big question is what should be a good spacing not only from the outer edges of the fins to the holes but from hole to hole as well? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 19:37:59 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 19:37:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Spacing of large holes in fins? References: <2078259367-1269223438-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-971045140-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <8D55B237E80E468090FC787376F08EDB@LaptopKrausert> OK, I might be wrong. Usually am. ;-) But since fins are part of the 'lift' portion of a rocket. Adding holes would disturb lift, increase drag by many factors, and create air zone focal/cross zones with each hole. I'm not certain. From a Fin size standpoint, I assume that hole as part of the space reduces the calculate fin size. As such, it much be a large enough fin to support aerodynamics with the holes. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Braibish" To: "Christopher Guenther" ; ; "RocketsNW" Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Spacing of large holes in fins? >I think the more significant consideration should be; what will the holes >do to the function of the fins. By drilling holes in the fins you will be >reducing the effective surface area. That is, if you uniformly drill out >half of the total fin it would be like cutting the fin size in half. That >said, if you are going to drill out the fins, from an aerodynamic >standpoint, it makes more sense to drill out more area closer to the air >frame, the surface area at the tips of the fins has a bigger impact on the >flight of the rocket than the fin near the air frame. If I were the one >doing the drilling I would put the priority on the edges (leave as much of >the fin at the edges as possible) but I might be inclined to just make the >fins smaller and leave them whole. You could consider a taper on the fins >too, with the fins being 1/4 inch you could sand those edges to 1/8 inch >and drop a lot of mass too. > > Braibish > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Guenther > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:23:44 > To: > Subject: [RocketsNW] Spacing of large holes in fins? > > I have a brid that has some large 1/4" G10 fins which has flown great a > couple of times. It just happens to be on the heavy side with the fincan > being the heaviest part of the rocket. The rest of the airframe is > weighted > in specific areas to keep the CP/CG ratio well into overstable. I am > looking to shorten the bird and remove about 4 LBS total dry weight from > it. The only way I can think of to shed some weight from the fincan is to > use my hole saws and come up with a neat pattern that will be the same on > all the fins and also to remove the tailcone and replace it with a 1/8" > centering ring. My big question is what should be a good spacing not only > from the outer edges of the fins to the holes but from hole to hole as > well? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun Mar 21 22:21:13 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check In-Reply-To: <840469.4834.qm@web65305.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <840469.4834.qm@web65305.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: After decades of research and billions of dollars of taxpayer money the Special Commission on Releasable Rocket Ballast publishes its final report: "Water good. Sand bad." ;-) +McG+ > I loosely followed your thread. Somewhere along the line you mentioned > water, probably a better idea instead of sand. Richard Hagen from Aeropac > had great success using water to simulate the weight of a second stage. He > made waterproof deployment charges out of pvc fittings and actually made a > small cloud. There is some info on his website here > > http://redglarerockets.com/Waterworks.htm > > SW > > --- On Sat, 3/20/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > wrote: > > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check > To: "Robert Krausert" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Saturday, March 20, 2010, 11:01 PM > > Robert, > I mulled over thoughts like those you list. > > A look through my handy 50x pocket microscope clearly showed that particle > sizes, shapes and Cd's couldn't be modeled worth a darn.? Any even > modestly accurate numbers would have to come from miserably thorough > experimental measurements. > > Fortunately, my obsessive-compulsive perfectionist tendency is well > counterbalanced by a strong laziness trait.? :)? I just assumed Cd between > 1 and 2 and said to heck with thinking about factors like lift and drift > from tumbling and wind velocity changing with altitude and all that other > stuff that makes my brain hurt from thinking too much. > > So I settled for back of the envelope type analysis to get *some idea* of > things.? I've pretty well convinced myself that dumping out sand ballast > from a few thousand feet at public launches is probably "a bad idea." > What's the old saying, "Sand in your eye?"? But doing so at places like > Black Rock or Argonia from stratospheric apogees probably presents no > problem. > > So if I'm FSO'ing at an OROC launch and someone comes up to the table with > a sand-ballast-dumping rocket, well....they'd better have some pretty > impressive experimental measurements of sand falling from great heights to > get by me.? Fine non-toxic dust is something else, no problem there.? Er, > unless they use coffee creamer instead of chalk! > > +McG+ > > >> So glad you're still nuts. You're in good company. >> >> Believe the bell-curve factor needs to apply. As 80% of the material >> will >> fall in the 20% destination center range. Destinaton center will be a >> factor >> of "time to ground" and "wind speed in MPH." If the wind speed is five >> MPH >> and most land at one hour, that would indicate the destination center. >> Sign >> on X and Cosine on Z should predict popluation zone as applied to Y the >> time >> to ground and wind speed angle. You can also mess with free fall against >> orbit. If time to ground is 1 hour, then the destination center would be >> about 850 miles into the Pacific ocean to the west. But then we are >> getting >> into Quantum Mechanics theory. Observation theory from the origin, >> destination and side viewer points. The destination view sees the sand >> coming straight down. The side viewer see the sand falling towards the >> West. >> All impacting time and distance. >> >> Sorry. But fun. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 12:59 AM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] TRA Code Sanity Check >> >> >>> ...and my insanity check.? Yup, still nuts!? :) >>> >>> Been crunching a few numbers and looking at sand under a microscope. >>> Without getting into another gawdawful long project it's not possible >>> to >>> be very precise but a few useful numbers do appear. >>> >>> The commercial white sand I have has most of the grains being between >>> about 1/3 mm and 3/4 mm in diameter.? Putting the relevant figures into >>> the equation for terminal velocity gave the following rough guess: >>> >>> The largest grains falling through air near sea level should take about >>> one minute to fall 1000 feet.? The smallest falling from ten >>> kilometers(32,800 feet) could take an hour and a quarter to reach >>> ground. >>> >>> As for dispersion, well, that's way too complex to model.? Quick 'n >>> dirty >>> calcs show "something like" 200,000 sand grains per ounce.? One ounce >>> spread over one acre(which might be what you'd get from a release at >>> 1000 >>> feet) is about five sand grains per square foot.? That would be >>> noticeable >>> by people on the ground.? Dump out a pound at 30,000 feet and if it >>> spreads out over one square mile you've got about one grain of sand per >>> square yard.? One grain per square yard hitting ground between one-half >>> to >>> one-and-a-half hours later.? ;-) >>> >>> If you want more precise numbers to better figure what you can get away >>> with, that's your problem! >>> +McG+ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Sun Mar 21 23:00:09 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:00:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals Message-ID: <56F2ED79E92C498387E99B3A30ED77E9@Desktop> I long time ago I saw a link for the center of pressure decal. I can't remember if it was on the list or not. Does anyone know of link?........................Mark From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Sun Mar 21 23:10:10 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:10:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals In-Reply-To: <56F2ED79E92C498387E99B3A30ED77E9@Desktop> References: <56F2ED79E92C498387E99B3A30ED77E9@Desktop> Message-ID: <4BA709C2.7080705@hawkfeather.com> http://bit.ly/cqby0t Andrew. Mark Dunkle wrote: > I long time ago I saw a link for the center of pressure decal. I can't remember if it was on the list or not. Does anyone know of link?........................Mark > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun Mar 21 23:29:31 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 02:29:31 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Spacing of large holes in fins? Message-ID: <9b40f.7740edd3.38d8684b@aol.com> As you've found out, 1/4" G-10 is overkill for just about any rocket. I made some for a customer who was building a 6" Velociraptor once. Those were way too heavy. He'd have been better off with aircraft ply skinned with CF. I'd recommend against the holes, mostly because you'll increase the drag which will most likely give a larger altitude penalty than the weight. If you are really ambitious you could skeletonize the fins, then fill the routed out sections with foam, then hot-wire it flush and skin over with CF cloth. Or just paint it up really pretty and have a hangar queen. Mike F. In a message dated 3/21/2010 5:24:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes: I have a brid that has some large 1/4" G10 fins which has flown great a couple of times. It just happens to be on the heavy side with the fincan being the heaviest part of the rocket. The rest of the airframe is weighted in specific areas to keep the CP/CG ratio well into overstable. I am looking to shorten the bird and remove about 4 LBS total dry weight from it. The only way I can think of to shed some weight from the fincan is to use my hole saws and come up with a neat pattern that will be the same on all the fins and also to remove the tailcone and replace it with a 1/8" centering ring. My big question is what should be a good spacing not only from the outer edges of the fins to the holes but from hole to hole as well? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Mon Mar 22 00:01:54 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 00:01:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] FW: NAR National Events - hang on In-Reply-To: References: <80F93DEBA09F489D94915FD271CA49FE@LaptopKrausert>, <8CC977CA56FBDAF-A58-1C60A@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: YOU KNOW, we do have a place for conventions here in Bend or Sunriver, just one of the best destination resorts in the West, with air service into Redmond, less than one hour from the launch site....... Not like people would not have anything to do around here, even if they are not interested in rockets............ like family of us rocket heads..... Just another "feather" in OROC's and NAR cap.............. Enjoy, Bob On Mar 21, 2010, at 9:13 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > John Lyngdal and George Racher are NAR board members. They've been to several. > > I'd like to see us show off Brothers. One of the best in the nation. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE > To: OROC membership > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:55 PM > Subject: [OROC Members] FW: NAR National Events - hang on > > Has anyone in the club been to one of the national events? Or been a volunteer? When I look at the magazines that feature these events the fields they fly in are similar to our Sheridan site. But timing is an issue for that location. However the Tillamook site could fit except for the summer months the airport is open. We may need to nurture an alternate site to consider an event of that size. And send some members to the national event. Or, as has been stated, bring in some organizers. Maybe a 2012 time frame would give us the time needed to get it together. > > Ramblings from the desk of: > > Tim R :-) > > > > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; members at oregonrocketry.org > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:15:16 -0400 > From: sej at aol.com > Subject: Re: [OROC Members] NAR National Events - hang on > > I'd echo Steve's comments. We'd have to develop or import contest running talent before taking on a regional or national. > > I like the idea of a convention. Find a campus willing to let out its classrooms, lecture hall, and field for a long weekend. There would have to be nearby hotels, and / or empty dorms that can be used as cheap housing for the weekend. Find a few guest lecturers. Encourage teachers and professors from local schools to sign up students, and tailor some of the programming for them. > > I managed to catch the last Pearl River convention in 1991. It was wonderful! There was a kit building session and a launch, a little dealer's room, speeches and how-to sessions. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert > To: members at oregonrocketry.org > Cc: Bod at oregonrocketry.org > Sent: Sun, Mar 21, 2010 6:02 pm > Subject: [OROC Members] NAR National Events - hang on > > Hi all, > Many of the club members are with NAR. While I'm mostly a TRA (dark side) guy, I still fight for NAR folks. I have been in conversations with Trip Barber regarding recognizing the work and effort we're doing in outreach. He asked if we'd like to have a NAR national event in Oregon. Currently looking at, NARAM, National Sport Launch, or NAR Convention as a potential. I'm now working with Ted NAR, to put us down as a location. > > So be prepared. 2011 might bring more than just our launches. We might be hosting NAR nationally. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > > Members mailing list > > Members at oregonrocketry.org > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 01:28:51 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:28:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals In-Reply-To: <4BA709C2.7080705@hawkfeather.com> References: <56F2ED79E92C498387E99B3A30ED77E9@Desktop> <4BA709C2.7080705@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: You can also get them at http://stickershock23.com/Rocketry_related_decals.html On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Andrew MacMillen wrote: > http://bit.ly/cqby0t > > Andrew. > > Mark Dunkle wrote: > >> I long time ago I saw a link for the center of pressure decal. I can't >> remember if it was on the list or not. Does anyone know of >> link?........................Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Mon Mar 22 09:35:39 2010 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:35:39 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Spacing of large holes in fins? Message-ID: I agree with Robert B. Put down the hole saw and pick up the belt sander (and mask). You could taper the fins from 1/4 to 1/16 inch with less structural effect than holes. Next redesign the airframe on Aerolab or RockSim and see if the form can be reduced. If you want to drill, skin the fin afterward with a couple of light CF fabric layers which will restore the aerodynamics and much of the strength. As for spacing, remember the advice of a Boeing janitor... drill lots of little holes, all in a row, because nothing ever tears along the dotted line. -Robert In a message dated 3/21/2010 4:24:13 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes: I have a brid that has some large 1/4" G10 fins which has flown great a couple of times. It just happens to be on the heavy side with the fincan being the heaviest part of the rocket. The rest of the airframe is weighted in specific areas to keep the CP/CG ratio well into overstable. I am looking to shorten the bird and remove about 4 LBS total dry weight from it. The only way I can think of to shed some weight from the fincan is to use my hole saws and come up with a neat pattern that will be the same on all the fins and also to remove the tailcone and replace it with a 1/8" centering ring. My big question is what should be a good spacing not only from the outer edges of the fins to the holes but from hole to hole as well? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Mon Mar 22 09:40:59 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:40:59 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals Message-ID: <286873061-1269276001-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1926448710-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Mark, I know its not what you are looking for, but I use the reinforcing rings for hole-punched paper. Avery makes clear ones. I just draw the pattern on with a Sharpie. It took a little practice to get one just-right and there is a hole in the middle but they work fine for me. Braibish ------Original Message------ From: Mark Dunkle Sender: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com To: oroc list To: RocketsNW Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals Sent: Mar 21, 2010 23:00 I long time ago I saw a link for the center of pressure decal. I can't remember if it was on the list or not. Does anyone know of link?........................Mark _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From glech at aol.com Mon Mar 22 09:53:21 2010 From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:53:21 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] NAR National Events In-Reply-To: References: <80F93DEBA09F489D94915FD271CA49FE@LaptopKrausert>, <8CC977CA56FBDAF-A58-1C60A@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CC97F7502CD9E3-A1C-5329@webmail-m091.sysops.aol.com> I second Bob's idea. There's conference and hotel facilities in both Bend and Redmond including the fairgrounds. Redmond (RDM) has commercial air service as well. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: robert grossfeld To: Robert Krausert ; nwrocketry Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:01 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] FW: NAR National Events - hang on YOU KNOW, we do have a place for conventions here in Bend or Sunriver, just one of the best destination resorts in the West, with air service into Redmond, less than one hour from the launch site....... Not like people would not have anything to do around here, even if they are not interested in rockets............ like family of us rocket heads..... Just another "feather" in OROC's and NAR cap.............. Enjoy, Bob On Mar 21, 2010, at 9:13 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > John Lyngdal and George Racher are NAR board members. They've been to several. > > I'd like to see us show off Brothers. One of the best in the nation. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE > To: OROC membership > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:55 PM > Subject: [OROC Members] FW: NAR National Events - hang on > > Has anyone in the club been to one of the national events? Or been a volunteer? When I look at the magazines that feature these events the fields they fly in are similar to our Sheridan site. But timing is an issue for that location. However the Tillamook site could fit except for the summer months the airport is open. We may need to nurture an alternate site to consider an event of that size. And send some members to the national event. Or, as has been stated, bring in some organizers. Maybe a 2012 time frame would give us the time needed to get it together. > > Ramblings from the desk of: > > Tim R :-) > > > > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; members at oregonrocketry.org > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:15:16 -0400 > From: sej at aol.com > Subject: Re: [OROC Members] NAR National Events - hang on > > I'd echo Steve's comments. We'd have to develop or import contest running talent before taking on a regional or national. > > I like the idea of a convention. Find a campus willing to let out its classrooms, lecture hall, and field for a long weekend. There would have to be nearby hotels, and / or empty dorms that can be used as cheap housing for the weekend. Find a few guest lecturers. Encourage teachers and professors from local schools to sign up students, and tailor some of the programming for them. > > I managed to catch the last Pearl River convention in 1991. It was wonderful! There was a kit building session and a launch, a little dealer's room, speeches and how-to sessions. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert > To: members at oregonrocketry.org > Cc: Bod at oregonrocketry.org > Sent: Sun, Mar 21, 2010 6:02 pm > Subject: [OROC Members] NAR National Events - hang on > > Hi all, > Many of the club members are with NAR. While I'm mostly a TRA (dark side) guy, I still fight for NAR folks. I have been in conversations with Trip Barber regarding recognizing the work and effort we're doing in outreach. He asked if we'd like to have a NAR national event in Oregon. Currently looking at, NARAM, National Sport Launch, or NAR Convention as a potential. I'm now working with Ted NAR, to put us down as a location. > > So be prepared. 2011 might bring more than just our launches. We might be hosting NAR nationally. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > > Members mailing list > > Members at oregonrocketry.org > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From sb at berfield.com Mon Mar 22 10:11:49 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:11:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals In-Reply-To: <286873061-1269276001-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1926448710-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <286873061-1269276001-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1926448710-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <00c101cac9e2$c30a6270$491f2750$@com> I use decal paper and my color inkjet printer. Whenever I do decals for something, I put a couple CP patterns in the spare space. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Braibish Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:41 AM To: Mark Dunkle; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com; oroc list; RocketsNW Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CP decals Mark, I know its not what you are looking for, but I use the reinforcing rings for hole-punched paper. Avery makes clear ones. I just draw the pattern on with a Sharpie. It took a little practice to get one just-right and there is a hole in the middle but they work fine for me. Braibish ------Original Message------ From: Mark Dunkle Sender: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com To: oroc list To: RocketsNW Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals Sent: Mar 21, 2010 23:00 I long time ago I saw a link for the center of pressure decal. I can't remember if it was on the list or not. Does anyone know of link?........................Mark _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From johnhawkins at wavecable.com Mon Mar 22 10:53:31 2010 From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com (John Hawkins) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:53:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals In-Reply-To: References: <56F2ED79E92C498387E99B3A30ED77E9@Desktop> <4BA709C2.7080705@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <000901cac9e8$95acb5c0$c1062140$@com> I bet Mike Fisher could make you some decals for the CP and CG -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:29 AM To: Andrew MacMillen Cc: rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CP decals You can also get them at http://stickershock23.com/Rocketry_related_decals.html On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Andrew MacMillen wrote: > http://bit.ly/cqby0t > > Andrew. > > Mark Dunkle wrote: > >> I long time ago I saw a link for the center of pressure decal. I can't >> remember if it was on the list or not. Does anyone know of >> link?........................Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winningstad at comcast.net Mon Mar 22 10:57:09 2010 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:57:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals In-Reply-To: <000901cac9e8$95acb5c0$c1062140$@com> References: <56F2ED79E92C498387E99B3A30ED77E9@Desktop> <4BA709C2.7080705@hawkfeather.com> <000901cac9e8$95acb5c0$c1062140$@com> Message-ID: <05b301cac9e9$187f9da0$497ed8e0$@net> How 'bout a 'CG' range? After all, it does move! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Hawkins Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:54 AM To: 'Christopher Guenther'; 'Andrew MacMillen' Cc: 'rockets NW list' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CP decals I bet Mike Fisher could make you some decals for the CP and CG -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:29 AM To: Andrew MacMillen Cc: rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CP decals You can also get them at http://stickershock23.com/Rocketry_related_decals.html On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Andrew MacMillen wrote: > http://bit.ly/cqby0t > > Andrew. > > Mark Dunkle wrote: > >> I long time ago I saw a link for the center of pressure decal. I can't >> remember if it was on the list or not. Does anyone know of >> link?........................Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Mfreptiles at aol.com Mon Mar 22 12:28:22 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:28:22 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals Message-ID: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> :) Or better yet, I could sell you some that I already have made. Cut vinyl, not water slide. The newer Binder Design kits come with them. The older Scott Binder version kits are getting a redesign and will soon include them as well. The first one up to bat will be the Excel series. I don't advertise all the little nickel and dime stuff but chances are, I either have it or can make it. Mike F. In a message dated 3/22/2010 10:54:10 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, johnhawkins at wavecable.com writes: I bet Mike Fisher could make you some decals for the CP and CG From robert.krausert at intel.com Mon Mar 22 12:45:57 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:45:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals In-Reply-To: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59D7193D@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> When it comes to Mike Fisher flying on his little motor creations, do not put the decal on the rock. The best thing to do is place the CP decal to the blast deflector. Why, you ask? Because I'm now the proud owner of the remains of a quad base that was destroyed by his baby-L. We're not talking a couple little breaks. We are talking five locations, and in places you might not expect. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:28 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CP decals :) Or better yet, I could sell you some that I already have made. Cut vinyl, not water slide. The newer Binder Design kits come with them. The older Scott Binder version kits are getting a redesign and will soon include them as well. The first one up to bat will be the Excel series. I don't advertise all the little nickel and dime stuff but chances are, I either have it or can make it. Mike F. In a message dated 3/22/2010 10:54:10 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, johnhawkins at wavecable.com writes: I bet Mike Fisher could make you some decals for the CP and CG _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From johnhawkins at wavecable.com Mon Mar 22 14:04:41 2010 From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com (John Hawkins) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:04:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals In-Reply-To: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> Message-ID: <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> And let me tell you Mike has made a lot of decals for me and they have always been top notch. if you're looking for decals Mike is your guy to have make them!! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:28 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CP decals :) Or better yet, I could sell you some that I already have made. Cut vinyl, not water slide. The newer Binder Design kits come with them. The older Scott Binder version kits are getting a redesign and will soon include them as well. The first one up to bat will be the Excel series. I don't advertise all the little nickel and dime stuff but chances are, I either have it or can make it. Mike F. In a message dated 3/22/2010 10:54:10 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, johnhawkins at wavecable.com writes: I bet Mike Fisher could make you some decals for the CP and CG _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Mon Mar 22 15:38:45 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:38:45 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT Message-ID: Just in from Aerotech-Rocketry........ AeroTech Dealer Information Release NOTE: (Please do not reply to this email address). Questions and comments can be directed to dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com Tripoli Motor Testing Committee Certifies AeroTech Metalstorm ?Sparky" Motors The Tripoli Motor Testing Committee (TMT) of the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) has certified one new single-use high-power motor and three new high-power reload kits using AeroTech?s unique and exciting new "sparky? propellant, dubbed Metalstorm?. The new motors include the 29 X 124mm single-use HP-G75M, which will be sold in 4, 7 and 10 second delay times, and three RMS? reload kits, the 38/360 H170M-14A, the 38/720 J340M-14A and the 54/1706 K540M-14A. The reload kits fit AeroTech, Rouse-Tech? and Dr. Rocket? RMS hardware, and the single-use HP-G75M will power most popular 29mm-capable kits and all of AeroTech's mid-power kits. The G75M designation includes the "HP-" prefix in anticipation of proposed National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code language which will classify all sparky motors, including 'G' class and smaller, as "high-power", requiring NAR or Tripoli user certification for purchase and use. Metalstorm is AeroTech?s latest propellant designed for its single-use and RMS reloadable motors. It has completely different visual, audible and performance characteristics than the other sparky propellants currently on the market. Metalstorm ignites easily and produces a large, brilliant white exhaust plume, a much longer yellow-orange dense spark tail, plentiful white sparks that fan out in flight and an ample volume of white smoke. Metalstorm?s high density and relatively high specific impulse results in a higher delivered total impulse for a given volume than some other sparky propellants. This characteristic makes Metalstorm "the performance sparky". Motor burn times using Metalstorm propellant are slightly longer than those produced by White Lightning?, but the total impulse is only slightly lower. Metalstorm motors assemble in an identical fashion to other AeroTech reloads fitting the same hardware. Cleanup is easy with none of the problems plaguing earlier sparky motors. As with all rocket motors using spark-generating propellants, special precautions must be taken to avoid fires around the launch pad by clearing the immediate area of all combustible materials in accordance with applicable fire and safety codes. Performance data, specifications and manufacturer suggested retail prices (MSRP) for the new motors and reload kits are as follows: Single-Use Motor Designations.......HP-G75-4M, -7M, -10M Part Numbers.............77204, 77207, 77210 Diameter.................29mm Length...................124mm Total Impulse (N-sec)....120.4 Burn Time (sec)..........1.6 Propellant Wt. (g).......66.8 Loaded Wt. (g)...........132 Delay Times..............4, 7 & 10 seconds MSRP.....................$19.99 RMS Reloadable Reload Designation.......H170M-14A Part Number..............08170L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/360 Total Impulse (N-sec)....319.9 Burn Time (sec)..........1.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........208 Propellant Wt. (g).......182.5 Loaded Wt. (g)...........330 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$29.99 Reload Designation.......J340M-14A Part Number..............10340L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/720 Total Impulse (N-sec)....651.7 Burn Time (sec)..........1.8 Peak Thrust (N)..........605 Propellant Wt. (g).......365 Loaded Wt. (g)...........577 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$49.99 Reload Designation.......K540M-14A Part Number..............11540L Diameter.................54mm RMS Hardware.............54/1706 Total Impulse (N-sec)....1596.3 Burn Time (sec)..........2.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........854 Propellant Wt. (g).......876.7 Loaded Wt. (g)...........1275 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$104.99 The HP-G75M motor and H170M reload kit may only be sold to NAR or Tripoli Level 1 or higher certified consumers. The J340M and K540M reloads require Level 2 user certification for purchase. Additional Metalstorm reload kits in other popular case sizes are under development and are planned for release later in the 2010 flying season. AeroTech is now taking orders for the new Metalstorm motors and reloads and deliveries to dealers are expected to begin in about two weeks. Representative thrust curves, certification documents, applicable assembly drawings and instructions will soon be available for download in PDF format from the Resource Library on the AeroTech website at http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com. AeroTech Consumer Aerospace has a page on Facebook! Follow the very latest AeroTech news, information, product developments and testing at http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954 AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is a division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc., Cedar City, UT. Respectfully, Diane Carlson AeroTech & ISP Divisions RCS RMC, Inc 2113 W 850 N Cedar City, UT 84721 435.865.7100 Ext 101 dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com From bartwoffee at hotmail.com Mon Mar 22 15:40:36 2010 From: bartwoffee at hotmail.com (Bartwoffee Plutz) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:40:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CP decals In-Reply-To: <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com>, <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> Message-ID: I'll second John's accolade of Mike's work. He made some upscale Red Max decals for me from the original scale art work, and they were great - outlasted the rocket. He's making some new ones for me now. Bill Wyvel > From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:04:41 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CP decals > > > And let me tell you Mike has made a lot of decals for me and they have > always been top notch. if you're looking for decals Mike is your guy to have > make them!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:28 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CP decals > > :) Or better yet, I could sell you some that I already have made. Cut > vinyl, not water slide. The newer Binder Design kits come with them. The > older Scott Binder version kits are getting a redesign and will soon > include > them as well. The first one up to bat will be the Excel series. > > I don't advertise all the little nickel and dime stuff but chances are, I > either have it or can make it. > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/22/2010 10:54:10 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > johnhawkins at wavecable.com writes: > > I bet Mike Fisher could make you some decals for the CP and CG > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ From winningstad at comcast.net Mon Mar 22 16:34:52 2010 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:34:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <063901caca18$4602b990$d2082cb0$@net> Here they go again...ALL Sparkys are HP whether they are or not!!! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:39 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT Just in from Aerotech-Rocketry........ AeroTech Dealer Information Release NOTE: (Please do not reply to this email address). Questions and comments can be directed to dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com Tripoli Motor Testing Committee Certifies AeroTech Metalstorm ?Sparky" Motors The Tripoli Motor Testing Committee (TMT) of the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) has certified one new single-use high-power motor and three new high-power reload kits using AeroTech?s unique and exciting new "sparky? propellant, dubbed Metalstorm?. The new motors include the 29 X 124mm single-use HP-G75M, which will be sold in 4, 7 and 10 second delay times, and three RMS? reload kits, the 38/360 H170M-14A, the 38/720 J340M-14A and the 54/1706 K540M-14A. The reload kits fit AeroTech, Rouse-Tech? and Dr. Rocket? RMS hardware, and the single-use HP-G75M will power most popular 29mm-capable kits and all of AeroTech's mid-power kits. The G75M designation includes the "HP-" prefix in anticipation of proposed National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code language which will classify all sparky motors, including 'G' class and smaller, as "high-power", requiring NAR or Tripoli user certification for purchase and use. Metalstorm is AeroTech?s latest propellant designed for its single-use and RMS reloadable motors. It has completely different visual, audible and performance characteristics than the other sparky propellants currently on the market. Metalstorm ignites easily and produces a large, brilliant white exhaust plume, a much longer yellow-orange dense spark tail, plentiful white sparks that fan out in flight and an ample volume of white smoke. Metalstorm?s high density and relatively high specific impulse results in a higher delivered total impulse for a given volume than some other sparky propellants. This characteristic makes Metalstorm "the performance sparky". Motor burn times using Metalstorm propellant are slightly longer than those produced by White Lightning?, but the total impulse is only slightly lower. Metalstorm motors assemble in an identical fashion to other AeroTech reloads fitting the same hardware. Cleanup is easy with none of the problems plaguing earlier sparky motors. As with all rocket motors using spark-generating propellants, special precautions must be taken to avoid fires around the launch pad by clearing the immediate area of all combustible materials in accordance with applicable fire and safety codes. Performance data, specifications and manufacturer suggested retail prices (MSRP) for the new motors and reload kits are as follows: Single-Use Motor Designations.......HP-G75-4M, -7M, -10M Part Numbers.............77204, 77207, 77210 Diameter.................29mm Length...................124mm Total Impulse (N-sec)....120.4 Burn Time (sec)..........1.6 Propellant Wt. (g).......66.8 Loaded Wt. (g)...........132 Delay Times..............4, 7 & 10 seconds MSRP.....................$19.99 RMS Reloadable Reload Designation.......H170M-14A Part Number..............08170L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/360 Total Impulse (N-sec)....319.9 Burn Time (sec)..........1.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........208 Propellant Wt. (g).......182.5 Loaded Wt. (g)...........330 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$29.99 Reload Designation.......J340M-14A Part Number..............10340L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/720 Total Impulse (N-sec)....651.7 Burn Time (sec)..........1.8 Peak Thrust (N)..........605 Propellant Wt. (g).......365 Loaded Wt. (g)...........577 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$49.99 Reload Designation.......K540M-14A Part Number..............11540L Diameter.................54mm RMS Hardware.............54/1706 Total Impulse (N-sec)....1596.3 Burn Time (sec)..........2.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........854 Propellant Wt. (g).......876.7 Loaded Wt. (g)...........1275 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$104.99 The HP-G75M motor and H170M reload kit may only be sold to NAR or Tripoli Level 1 or higher certified consumers. The J340M and K540M reloads require Level 2 user certification for purchase. Additional Metalstorm reload kits in other popular case sizes are under development and are planned for release later in the 2010 flying season. AeroTech is now taking orders for the new Metalstorm motors and reloads and deliveries to dealers are expected to begin in about two weeks. Representative thrust curves, certification documents, applicable assembly drawings and instructions will soon be available for download in PDF format from the Resource Library on the AeroTech website at http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com. AeroTech Consumer Aerospace has a page on Facebook! Follow the very latest AeroTech news, information, product developments and testing at http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954 AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is a division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc., Cedar City, UT. Respectfully, Diane Carlson AeroTech & ISP Divisions RCS RMC, Inc 2113 W 850 N Cedar City, UT 84721 435.865.7100 Ext 101 dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From k2tsai at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 16:40:48 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:40:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT In-Reply-To: <063901caca18$4602b990$d2082cb0$@net> References: <063901caca18$4602b990$d2082cb0$@net> Message-ID: <7816cff1003221640h60e68ce5w36d46812e1634e68@mail.gmail.com> >From what I've read on it, this motor has 66g propellant. That makes this one HP regardless of if it's sparky. - Ken On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Dennis S Winningstad wrote: > Here they go again...ALL Sparkys are HP whether they are or not!!! > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:39 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT > > > Just in from Aerotech-Rocketry........ > > > > > AeroTech Dealer Information Release > > NOTE: (Please do not reply to this email address). Questions and comments > can be directed to dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > > Tripoli Motor Testing Committee Certifies AeroTech Metalstorm ?Sparky" > Motors > > The Tripoli Motor Testing Committee (TMT) of the Tripoli Rocketry > Association (TRA) has certified one new single-use high-power motor and > three new high-power reload kits using AeroTech?s unique and exciting new > "sparky? propellant, dubbed Metalstorm . > > The new motors include the 29 X 124mm single-use HP-G75M, which will be sold > in 4, 7 and 10 second delay times, and three RMS ?reload kits, the 38/360 > H170M-14A, the 38/720 J340M-14A and the 54/1706 K540M-14A. The reload kits > fit AeroTech, Rouse-Tech ?and Dr. Rocket ?RMS hardware, and the single-use > HP-G75M will power most popular 29mm-capable kits and all of AeroTech's > mid-power kits. The G75M designation includes the "HP-" prefix in > anticipation of proposed National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code > language which will classify all sparky motors, including 'G' class and > smaller, as "high-power", requiring NAR or Tripoli user certification for > purchase and use. > > Metalstorm is AeroTech?s latest propellant designed for its single-use and > RMS reloadable motors. It has completely different visual, audible and > performance characteristics than the other sparky propellants currently on > the market. Metalstorm ignites easily and produces a large, brilliant white > exhaust plume, a much longer yellow-orange dense spark tail, plentiful white > sparks that fan out in flight and an ample volume of white smoke. > > Metalstorm?s high density and relatively high specific impulse results in a > higher delivered total impulse for a given volume than some other sparky > propellants. This characteristic makes Metalstorm "the performance sparky". > Motor burn times using Metalstorm propellant are slightly longer than those > produced by White Lightning , but the total impulse is only slightly lower. > > Metalstorm motors assemble in an identical fashion to other AeroTech reloads > fitting the same hardware. Cleanup is easy with none of the problems > plaguing earlier sparky motors. > > As with all rocket motors using spark-generating propellants, special > precautions must be taken to avoid fires around the launch pad by clearing > the immediate area of all combustible materials in accordance with > applicable fire and safety codes. > > Performance data, specifications and manufacturer suggested retail prices > (MSRP) for the new motors and reload kits are as follows: > > Single-Use > > Motor Designations.......HP-G75-4M, -7M, -10M > Part Numbers.............77204, 77207, 77210 > Diameter.................29mm > Length...................124mm > Total Impulse (N-sec)....120.4 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.6 > Propellant Wt. (g).......66.8 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........132 > Delay Times..............4, 7 & 10 seconds > MSRP.....................$19.99 > > RMS Reloadable > > Reload Designation.......H170M-14A > Part Number..............08170L > Diameter.................38mm > RMS Hardware.............38/360 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....319.9 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.9 > Peak Thrust (N)..........208 > Propellant Wt. (g).......182.5 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........330 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$29.99 > > Reload Designation.......J340M-14A > Part Number..............10340L > Diameter.................38mm > RMS Hardware.............38/720 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....651.7 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.8 > Peak Thrust (N)..........605 > Propellant Wt. (g).......365 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........577 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$49.99 > > Reload Designation.......K540M-14A > Part Number..............11540L > Diameter.................54mm > RMS Hardware.............54/1706 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....1596.3 > Burn Time (sec)..........2.9 > Peak Thrust (N)..........854 > Propellant Wt. (g).......876.7 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........1275 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$104.99 > > The HP-G75M motor and H170M reload kit may only be sold to NAR or Tripoli > Level 1 or higher certified consumers. The J340M and K540M reloads require > Level 2 user certification for purchase. > > Additional Metalstorm reload kits in other popular case sizes are under > development and are planned for release later in the 2010 flying season. > > AeroTech is now taking orders for the new Metalstorm motors and reloads and > deliveries to dealers are expected to begin in about two weeks. > > Representative thrust curves, certification documents, applicable assembly > drawings and instructions will soon be available for download in PDF format > from the Resource Library on the AeroTech website at > http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com. > > AeroTech Consumer Aerospace has a page on Facebook! Follow the very latest > AeroTech news, information, product developments and testing at > http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954 > > AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is a division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, > Inc., Cedar City, UT. > > Respectfully, > > Diane Carlson > AeroTech & ISP Divisions > RCS RMC, Inc > 2113 W 850 N > Cedar City, UT 84721 > 435.865.7100 Ext 101 > dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From stefan_jones at comcast.net Mon Mar 22 17:05:04 2010 From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (Stefan Jones) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:05:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT In-Reply-To: <1060770061.2647541269302671734.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <888289660.2647881269302704389.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Gary posted some photos of these new "sparkies" in action on the Old Rockets board: http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=6807 The last "sparky" I launched was a 38mm black powder H . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:38:45 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT Just in from Aerotech-Rocketry........ AeroTech Dealer Information Release NOTE: (Please do not reply to this email address). Questions and comments can be directed to dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com Tripoli Motor Testing Committee Certifies AeroTech Metalstorm ?Sparky" Motors The Tripoli Motor Testing Committee (TMT) of the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) has certified one new single-use high-power motor and three new high-power reload kits using AeroTech?s unique and exciting new "sparky? propellant, dubbed Metalstorm?. The new motors include the 29 X 124mm single-use HP-G75M, which will be sold in 4, 7 and 10 second delay times, and three RMS? reload kits, the 38/360 H170M-14A, the 38/720 J340M-14A and the 54/1706 K540M-14A. The reload kits fit AeroTech, Rouse-Tech? and Dr. Rocket? RMS hardware, and the single-use HP-G75M will power most popular 29mm-capable kits and all of AeroTech's mid-power kits. The G75M designation includes the "HP-" prefix in anticipation of proposed National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code language which will classify all sparky motors, including 'G' class and smaller, as "high-power", requiring NAR or Tripoli user certification for purchase and use. Metalstorm is AeroTech?s latest propellant designed for its single-use and RMS reloadable motors. It has completely different visual, audible and performance characteristics than the other sparky propellants currently on the market. Metalstorm ignites easily and produces a large, brilliant white exhaust plume, a much longer yellow-orange dense spark tail, plentiful white sparks that fan out in flight and an ample volume of white smoke. Metalstorm?s high density and relatively high specific impulse results in a higher delivered total impulse for a given volume than some other sparky propellants. This characteristic makes Metalstorm "the performance sparky". Motor burn times using Metalstorm propellant are slightly longer than those produced by White Lightning?, but the total impulse is only slightly lower. Metalstorm motors assemble in an identical fashion to other AeroTech reloads fitting the same hardware. Cleanup is easy with none of the problems plaguing earlier sparky motors. As with all rocket motors using spark-generating propellants, special precautions must be taken to avoid fires around the launch pad by clearing the immediate area of all combustible materials in accordance with applicable fire and safety codes. Performance data, specifications and manufacturer suggested retail prices (MSRP) for the new motors and reload kits are as follows: Single-Use Motor Designations.......HP-G75-4M, -7M, -10M Part Numbers.............77204, 77207, 77210 Diameter.................29mm Length...................124mm Total Impulse (N-sec)....120.4 Burn Time (sec)..........1.6 Propellant Wt. (g).......66.8 Loaded Wt. (g)...........132 Delay Times..............4, 7 & 10 seconds MSRP.....................$19.99 RMS Reloadable Reload Designation.......H170M-14A Part Number..............08170L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/360 Total Impulse (N-sec)....319.9 Burn Time (sec)..........1.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........208 Propellant Wt. (g).......182.5 Loaded Wt. (g)...........330 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$29.99 Reload Designation.......J340M-14A Part Number..............10340L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/720 Total Impulse (N-sec)....651.7 Burn Time (sec)..........1.8 Peak Thrust (N)..........605 Propellant Wt. (g).......365 Loaded Wt. (g)...........577 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$49.99 Reload Designation.......K540M-14A Part Number..............11540L Diameter.................54mm RMS Hardware.............54/1706 Total Impulse (N-sec)....1596.3 Burn Time (sec)..........2.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........854 Propellant Wt. (g).......876.7 Loaded Wt. (g)...........1275 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$104.99 The HP-G75M motor and H170M reload kit may only be sold to NAR or Tripoli Level 1 or higher certified consumers. The J340M and K540M reloads require Level 2 user certification for purchase. Additional Metalstorm reload kits in other popular case sizes are under development and are planned for release later in the 2010 flying season. AeroTech is now taking orders for the new Metalstorm motors and reloads and deliveries to dealers are expected to begin in about two weeks. Representative thrust curves, certification documents, applicable assembly drawings and instructions will soon be available for download in PDF format from the Resource Library on the AeroTech website at http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com. AeroTech Consumer Aerospace has a page on Facebook! Follow the very latest AeroTech news, information, product developments and testing at http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954 AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is a division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc., Cedar City, UT. Respectfully, Diane Carlson AeroTech & ISP Divisions RCS RMC, Inc 2113 W 850 N Cedar City, UT 84721 435.865.7100 Ext 101 dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Mon Mar 22 17:30:17 2010 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:30:17 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT In-Reply-To: <888289660.2647881269302704389.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1060770061.2647541269302671734.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><888289660.2647881269302704389.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <129670295-1269304160-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-844082900-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Rocketry Planet has a video... Sorry, no link, (sending from my Blackberry) easy to find though Braibish -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jones Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:05:04 To: Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT Gary posted some photos of these new "sparkies" in action on the Old Rockets board: http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=6807 The last "sparky" I launched was a 38mm black powder H . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:38:45 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT Just in from Aerotech-Rocketry........ AeroTech Dealer Information Release NOTE: (Please do not reply to this email address). Questions and comments can be directed to dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com Tripoli Motor Testing Committee Certifies AeroTech Metalstorm ?Sparky" Motors The Tripoli Motor Testing Committee (TMT) of the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) has certified one new single-use high-power motor and three new high-power reload kits using AeroTech?s unique and exciting new "sparky? propellant, dubbed Metalstorm?. The new motors include the 29 X 124mm single-use HP-G75M, which will be sold in 4, 7 and 10 second delay times, and three RMS? reload kits, the 38/360 H170M-14A, the 38/720 J340M-14A and the 54/1706 K540M-14A. The reload kits fit AeroTech, Rouse-Tech? and Dr. Rocket? RMS hardware, and the single-use HP-G75M will power most popular 29mm-capable kits and all of AeroTech's mid-power kits. The G75M designation includes the "HP-" prefix in anticipation of proposed National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code language which will classify all sparky motors, including 'G' class and smaller, as "high-power", requiring NAR or Tripoli user certification for purchase and use. Metalstorm is AeroTech?s latest propellant designed for its single-use and RMS reloadable motors. It has completely different visual, audible and performance characteristics than the other sparky propellants currently on the market. Metalstorm ignites easily and produces a large, brilliant white exhaust plume, a much longer yellow-orange dense spark tail, plentiful white sparks that fan out in flight and an ample volume of white smoke. Metalstorm?s high density and relatively high specific impulse results in a higher delivered total impulse for a given volume than some other sparky propellants. This characteristic makes Metalstorm "the performance sparky". Motor burn times using Metalstorm propellant are slightly longer than those produced by White Lightning?, but the total impulse is only slightly lower. Metalstorm motors assemble in an identical fashion to other AeroTech reloads fitting the same hardware. Cleanup is easy with none of the problems plaguing earlier sparky motors. As with all rocket motors using spark-generating propellants, special precautions must be taken to avoid fires around the launch pad by clearing the immediate area of all combustible materials in accordance with applicable fire and safety codes. Performance data, specifications and manufacturer suggested retail prices (MSRP) for the new motors and reload kits are as follows: Single-Use Motor Designations.......HP-G75-4M, -7M, -10M Part Numbers.............77204, 77207, 77210 Diameter.................29mm Length...................124mm Total Impulse (N-sec)....120.4 Burn Time (sec)..........1.6 Propellant Wt. (g).......66.8 Loaded Wt. (g)...........132 Delay Times..............4, 7 & 10 seconds MSRP.....................$19.99 RMS Reloadable Reload Designation.......H170M-14A Part Number..............08170L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/360 Total Impulse (N-sec)....319.9 Burn Time (sec)..........1.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........208 Propellant Wt. (g).......182.5 Loaded Wt. (g)...........330 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$29.99 Reload Designation.......J340M-14A Part Number..............10340L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/720 Total Impulse (N-sec)....651.7 Burn Time (sec)..........1.8 Peak Thrust (N)..........605 Propellant Wt. (g).......365 Loaded Wt. (g)...........577 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$49.99 Reload Designation.......K540M-14A Part Number..............11540L Diameter.................54mm RMS Hardware.............54/1706 Total Impulse (N-sec)....1596.3 Burn Time (sec)..........2.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........854 Propellant Wt. (g).......876.7 Loaded Wt. (g)...........1275 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$104.99 The HP-G75M motor and H170M reload kit may only be sold to NAR or Tripoli Level 1 or higher certified consumers. The J340M and K540M reloads require Level 2 user certification for purchase. Additional Metalstorm reload kits in other popular case sizes are under development and are planned for release later in the 2010 flying season. AeroTech is now taking orders for the new Metalstorm motors and reloads and deliveries to dealers are expected to begin in about two weeks. Representative thrust curves, certification documents, applicable assembly drawings and instructions will soon be available for download in PDF format from the Resource Library on the AeroTech website at http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com. AeroTech Consumer Aerospace has a page on Facebook! Follow the very latest AeroTech news, information, product developments and testing at http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954 AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is a division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc., Cedar City, UT. Respectfully, Diane Carlson AeroTech & ISP Divisions RCS RMC, Inc 2113 W 850 N Cedar City, UT 84721 435.865.7100 Ext 101 dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Mon Mar 22 17:31:12 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:31:12 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT In-Reply-To: <063901caca18$4602b990$d2082cb0$@net> References: <063901caca18$4602b990$d2082cb0$@net> Message-ID: <4BA80BD0.4000505@hawkfeather.com> So are hybrids, according to NAR. Andrew. Dennis S Winningstad wrote: > Here they go again...ALL Sparkys are HP whether they are or not!!! > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:39 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT > > > Just in from Aerotech-Rocketry........ > > > > > AeroTech Dealer Information Release > > NOTE: (Please do not reply to this email address). Questions and comments > can be directed to dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > > Tripoli Motor Testing Committee Certifies AeroTech Metalstorm ?Sparky" > Motors > > The Tripoli Motor Testing Committee (TMT) of the Tripoli Rocketry > Association (TRA) has certified one new single-use high-power motor and > three new high-power reload kits using AeroTech?s unique and exciting new > "sparky? propellant, dubbed Metalstorm?. > > The new motors include the 29 X 124mm single-use HP-G75M, which will be sold > in 4, 7 and 10 second delay times, and three RMS? reload kits, the 38/360 > H170M-14A, the 38/720 J340M-14A and the 54/1706 K540M-14A. The reload kits > fit AeroTech, Rouse-Tech? and Dr. Rocket? RMS hardware, and the single-use > HP-G75M will power most popular 29mm-capable kits and all of AeroTech's > mid-power kits. The G75M designation includes the "HP-" prefix in > anticipation of proposed National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code > language which will classify all sparky motors, including 'G' class and > smaller, as "high-power", requiring NAR or Tripoli user certification for > purchase and use. > > Metalstorm is AeroTech?s latest propellant designed for its single-use and > RMS reloadable motors. It has completely different visual, audible and > performance characteristics than the other sparky propellants currently on > the market. Metalstorm ignites easily and produces a large, brilliant white > exhaust plume, a much longer yellow-orange dense spark tail, plentiful white > sparks that fan out in flight and an ample volume of white smoke. > > Metalstorm?s high density and relatively high specific impulse results in a > higher delivered total impulse for a given volume than some other sparky > propellants. This characteristic makes Metalstorm "the performance sparky". > Motor burn times using Metalstorm propellant are slightly longer than those > produced by White Lightning?, but the total impulse is only slightly lower. > > Metalstorm motors assemble in an identical fashion to other AeroTech reloads > fitting the same hardware. Cleanup is easy with none of the problems > plaguing earlier sparky motors. > > As with all rocket motors using spark-generating propellants, special > precautions must be taken to avoid fires around the launch pad by clearing > the immediate area of all combustible materials in accordance with > applicable fire and safety codes. > > Performance data, specifications and manufacturer suggested retail prices > (MSRP) for the new motors and reload kits are as follows: > > Single-Use > > Motor Designations.......HP-G75-4M, -7M, -10M > Part Numbers.............77204, 77207, 77210 > Diameter.................29mm > Length...................124mm > Total Impulse (N-sec)....120.4 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.6 > Propellant Wt. (g).......66.8 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........132 > Delay Times..............4, 7 & 10 seconds > MSRP.....................$19.99 > > RMS Reloadable > > Reload Designation.......H170M-14A > Part Number..............08170L > Diameter.................38mm > RMS Hardware.............38/360 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....319.9 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.9 > Peak Thrust (N)..........208 > Propellant Wt. (g).......182.5 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........330 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$29.99 > > Reload Designation.......J340M-14A > Part Number..............10340L > Diameter.................38mm > RMS Hardware.............38/720 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....651.7 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.8 > Peak Thrust (N)..........605 > Propellant Wt. (g).......365 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........577 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$49.99 > > Reload Designation.......K540M-14A > Part Number..............11540L > Diameter.................54mm > RMS Hardware.............54/1706 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....1596.3 > Burn Time (sec)..........2.9 > Peak Thrust (N)..........854 > Propellant Wt. (g).......876.7 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........1275 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$104.99 > > The HP-G75M motor and H170M reload kit may only be sold to NAR or Tripoli > Level 1 or higher certified consumers. The J340M and K540M reloads require > Level 2 user certification for purchase. > > Additional Metalstorm reload kits in other popular case sizes are under > development and are planned for release later in the 2010 flying season. > > AeroTech is now taking orders for the new Metalstorm motors and reloads and > deliveries to dealers are expected to begin in about two weeks. > > Representative thrust curves, certification documents, applicable assembly > drawings and instructions will soon be available for download in PDF format > from the Resource Library on the AeroTech website at > http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com. > > AeroTech Consumer Aerospace has a page on Facebook! Follow the very latest > AeroTech news, information, product developments and testing at > http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954 > > AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is a division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, > Inc., Cedar City, UT. > > Respectfully, > > Diane Carlson > AeroTech & ISP Divisions > RCS RMC, Inc > 2113 W 850 N > Cedar City, UT 84721 > 435.865.7100 Ext 101 > dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 18:14:39 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:14:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] FW: NAR National Events - hang on References: <80F93DEBA09F489D94915FD271CA49FE@LaptopKrausert>, <8CC977CA56FBDAF-A58-1C60A@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <59D29280E361435BAEB20BF4A2ED0582@LaptopKrausert> Sunriver or Bend would be great locations. Potential, especially with an airport for access. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: robert grossfeld To: Robert Krausert ; nwrocketry Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:01 AM Subject: Re: [OROC Members] FW: NAR National Events - hang on YOU KNOW, we do have a place for conventions here in Bend or Sunriver, just one of the best destination resorts in the West, with air service into Redmond, less than one hour from the launch site....... Not like people would not have anything to do around here, even if they are not interested in rockets............ like family of us rocket heads..... Just another "feather" in OROC's and NAR cap.............. Enjoy, Bob On Mar 21, 2010, at 9:13 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: John Lyngdal and George Racher are NAR board members. They've been to several. I'd like to see us show off Brothers. One of the best in the nation. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE To: OROC membership Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:55 PM Subject: [OROC Members] FW: NAR National Events - hang on Has anyone in the club been to one of the national events? Or been a volunteer? When I look at the magazines that feature these events the fields they fly in are similar to our Sheridan site. But timing is an issue for that location. However the Tillamook site could fit except for the summer months the airport is open. We may need to nurture an alternate site to consider an event of that size. And send some members to the national event. Or, as has been stated, bring in some organizers. Maybe a 2012 time frame would give us the time needed to get it together. Ramblings from the desk of: Tim R :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; members at oregonrocketry.org Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:15:16 -0400 From: sej at aol.com Subject: Re: [OROC Members] NAR National Events - hang on I'd echo Steve's comments. We'd have to develop or import contest running talent before taking on a regional or national. I like the idea of a convention. Find a campus willing to let out its classrooms, lecture hall, and field for a long weekend. There would have to be nearby hotels, and / or empty dorms that can be used as cheap housing for the weekend. Find a few guest lecturers. Encourage teachers and professors from local schools to sign up students, and tailor some of the programming for them. I managed to catch the last Pearl River convention in 1991. It was wonderful! There was a kit building session and a launch, a little dealer's room, speeches and how-to sessions. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert To: members at oregonrocketry.org Cc: Bod at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Sun, Mar 21, 2010 6:02 pm Subject: [OROC Members] NAR National Events - hang on Hi all, Many of the club members are with NAR. While I'm mostly a TRA (dark side) guy, I still fight for NAR folks. I have been in conversations with Trip Barber regarding recognizing the work and effort we're doing in outreach. He asked if we'd like to have a NAR national event in Oregon. Currently looking at, NARAM, National Sport Launch, or NAR Convention as a potential. I'm now working with Ted NAR, to put us down as a location. So be prepared. 2011 might bring more than just our launches. We might be hosting NAR nationally. Cheers, Robert _______________________________________________ Members mailing list Members at oregonrocketry.org http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Members mailing list Members at oregonrocketry.org http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members _______________________________________________ Members mailing list Members at oregonrocketry.org http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From john_lyngdal at verizon.net Mon Mar 22 19:31:31 2010 From: john_lyngdal at verizon.net (John Lyngdal) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:31:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT In-Reply-To: <4BA80BD0.4000505@hawkfeather.com> References: <063901caca18$4602b990$d2082cb0$@net> <4BA80BD0.4000505@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <001c01caca30$f3e802f0$dbb808d0$@net> Again by propellant weight and by unanimous support by the NFPA 1125 Rocketry Subcommittee. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:31 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT So are hybrids, according to NAR. Andrew. Dennis S Winningstad wrote: > Here they go again...ALL Sparkys are HP whether they are or not!!! > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:39 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT > > > Just in from Aerotech-Rocketry........ > > > > > AeroTech Dealer Information Release > > NOTE: (Please do not reply to this email address). Questions and > comments can be directed to dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > > Tripoli Motor Testing Committee Certifies AeroTech Metalstorm ?Sparky" > Motors > > The Tripoli Motor Testing Committee (TMT) of the Tripoli Rocketry > Association (TRA) has certified one new single-use high-power motor > and three new high-power reload kits using AeroTech?s unique and > exciting new "sparky? propellant, dubbed Metalstorm?. > > The new motors include the 29 X 124mm single-use HP-G75M, which will > be sold in 4, 7 and 10 second delay times, and three RMS? reload kits, > the 38/360 H170M-14A, the 38/720 J340M-14A and the 54/1706 K540M-14A. > The reload kits fit AeroTech, Rouse-Tech? and Dr. Rocket? RMS > hardware, and the single-use HP-G75M will power most popular > 29mm-capable kits and all of AeroTech's mid-power kits. The G75M > designation includes the "HP-" prefix in anticipation of proposed > National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code language which will > classify all sparky motors, including 'G' class and smaller, as > "high-power", requiring NAR or Tripoli user certification for purchase and use. > > Metalstorm is AeroTech?s latest propellant designed for its single-use > and RMS reloadable motors. It has completely different visual, audible > and performance characteristics than the other sparky propellants > currently on the market. Metalstorm ignites easily and produces a > large, brilliant white exhaust plume, a much longer yellow-orange > dense spark tail, plentiful white sparks that fan out in flight and an ample volume of white smoke. > > Metalstorm?s high density and relatively high specific impulse results > in a higher delivered total impulse for a given volume than some other > sparky propellants. This characteristic makes Metalstorm "the performance sparky". > Motor burn times using Metalstorm propellant are slightly longer than > those produced by White Lightning?, but the total impulse is only slightly lower. > > Metalstorm motors assemble in an identical fashion to other AeroTech > reloads fitting the same hardware. Cleanup is easy with none of the > problems plaguing earlier sparky motors. > > As with all rocket motors using spark-generating propellants, special > precautions must be taken to avoid fires around the launch pad by > clearing the immediate area of all combustible materials in accordance > with applicable fire and safety codes. > > Performance data, specifications and manufacturer suggested retail > prices > (MSRP) for the new motors and reload kits are as follows: > > Single-Use > > Motor Designations.......HP-G75-4M, -7M, -10M Part > Numbers.............77204, 77207, 77210 Diameter.................29mm > Length...................124mm Total Impulse (N-sec)....120.4 Burn > Time (sec)..........1.6 Propellant Wt. (g).......66.8 Loaded Wt. > (g)...........132 Delay Times..............4, 7 & 10 seconds > MSRP.....................$19.99 > > RMS Reloadable > > Reload Designation.......H170M-14A > Part Number..............08170L > Diameter.................38mm > RMS Hardware.............38/360 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....319.9 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.9 > Peak Thrust (N)..........208 > Propellant Wt. (g).......182.5 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........330 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$29.99 > > Reload Designation.......J340M-14A > Part Number..............10340L > Diameter.................38mm > RMS Hardware.............38/720 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....651.7 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.8 > Peak Thrust (N)..........605 > Propellant Wt. (g).......365 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........577 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$49.99 > > Reload Designation.......K540M-14A > Part Number..............11540L > Diameter.................54mm > RMS Hardware.............54/1706 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....1596.3 > Burn Time (sec)..........2.9 > Peak Thrust (N)..........854 > Propellant Wt. (g).......876.7 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........1275 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$104.99 > > The HP-G75M motor and H170M reload kit may only be sold to NAR or > Tripoli Level 1 or higher certified consumers. The J340M and K540M > reloads require Level 2 user certification for purchase. > > Additional Metalstorm reload kits in other popular case sizes are > under development and are planned for release later in the 2010 flying season. > > AeroTech is now taking orders for the new Metalstorm motors and > reloads and deliveries to dealers are expected to begin in about two weeks. > > Representative thrust curves, certification documents, applicable > assembly drawings and instructions will soon be available for download > in PDF format from the Resource Library on the AeroTech website at > http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com. > > AeroTech Consumer Aerospace has a page on Facebook! Follow the very > latest AeroTech news, information, product developments and testing at > http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954 > > AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is a division of RCS Rocket Motor > Components, Inc., Cedar City, UT. > > Respectfully, > > Diane Carlson > AeroTech & ISP Divisions > RCS RMC, Inc > 2113 W 850 N > Cedar City, UT 84721 > 435.865.7100 Ext 101 > dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon Mar 22 20:11:15 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT In-Reply-To: <4BA80BD0.4000505@hawkfeather.com> References: <063901caca18$4602b990$d2082cb0$@net> <4BA80BD0.4000505@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: And according to the FAA so are water rockets with more than 125 grams of propellant. But everybody has agreed to pretend those don't count. :) I'll shut up now...... +McG+ > So are hybrids, according to NAR. > > Andrew. > > Dennis S Winningstad wrote: >> Here they go again...ALL Sparkys are HP whether they are or not!!! >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> 503-781-3529 From appusher at q.com Mon Mar 22 20:20:54 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:20:54 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT In-Reply-To: <129670295-1269304160-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-844082900-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1060770061.2647541269302671734.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><888289660.2647881269302704389.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>, <129670295-1269304160-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-844082900-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: If yo check on the bottom of the News Release, there is a link to Aerotech's Facebook page with photos and vids. Bill > To: stefan_jones at comcast.net; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:30:17 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT > > Rocketry Planet has a video... Sorry, no link, (sending from my Blackberry) easy to find though > > Braibish > -----Original Message----- > From: Stefan Jones > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:05:04 > To: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT > > Gary posted some photos of these new "sparkies" in action on the Old Rockets board: > > http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=6807 > > The last "sparky" I launched was a 38mm black powder H . . . > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Munds" > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:38:45 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT > > > Just in from Aerotech-Rocketry........ > > > > > AeroTech Dealer Information Release > > NOTE: (Please do not reply to this email address). Questions and comments > can be directed to dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > > Tripoli Motor Testing Committee Certifies AeroTech Metalstorm ?Sparky" > Motors > > The Tripoli Motor Testing Committee (TMT) of the Tripoli Rocketry > Association (TRA) has certified one new single-use high-power motor and > three new high-power reload kits using AeroTech?s unique and exciting new > "sparky? propellant, dubbed Metalstorm?. > > The new motors include the 29 X 124mm single-use HP-G75M, which will be sold > in 4, 7 and 10 second delay times, and three RMS? reload kits, the 38/360 > H170M-14A, the 38/720 J340M-14A and the 54/1706 K540M-14A. The reload kits > fit AeroTech, Rouse-Tech? and Dr. Rocket? RMS hardware, and the single-use > HP-G75M will power most popular 29mm-capable kits and all of AeroTech's > mid-power kits. The G75M designation includes the "HP-" prefix in > anticipation of proposed National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code > language which will classify all sparky motors, including 'G' class and > smaller, as "high-power", requiring NAR or Tripoli user certification for > purchase and use. > > Metalstorm is AeroTech?s latest propellant designed for its single-use and > RMS reloadable motors. It has completely different visual, audible and > performance characteristics than the other sparky propellants currently on > the market. Metalstorm ignites easily and produces a large, brilliant white > exhaust plume, a much longer yellow-orange dense spark tail, plentiful white > sparks that fan out in flight and an ample volume of white smoke. > > Metalstorm?s high density and relatively high specific impulse results in a > higher delivered total impulse for a given volume than some other sparky > propellants. This characteristic makes Metalstorm "the performance sparky". > Motor burn times using Metalstorm propellant are slightly longer than those > produced by White Lightning?, but the total impulse is only slightly lower. > > Metalstorm motors assemble in an identical fashion to other AeroTech reloads > fitting the same hardware. Cleanup is easy with none of the problems > plaguing earlier sparky motors. > > As with all rocket motors using spark-generating propellants, special > precautions must be taken to avoid fires around the launch pad by clearing > the immediate area of all combustible materials in accordance with > applicable fire and safety codes. > > Performance data, specifications and manufacturer suggested retail prices > (MSRP) for the new motors and reload kits are as follows: > > Single-Use > > Motor Designations.......HP-G75-4M, -7M, -10M > Part Numbers.............77204, 77207, 77210 > Diameter.................29mm > Length...................124mm > Total Impulse (N-sec)....120.4 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.6 > Propellant Wt. (g).......66.8 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........132 > Delay Times..............4, 7 & 10 seconds > MSRP.....................$19.99 > > RMS Reloadable > > Reload Designation.......H170M-14A > Part Number..............08170L > Diameter.................38mm > RMS Hardware.............38/360 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....319.9 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.9 > Peak Thrust (N)..........208 > Propellant Wt. (g).......182.5 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........330 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$29.99 > > Reload Designation.......J340M-14A > Part Number..............10340L > Diameter.................38mm > RMS Hardware.............38/720 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....651.7 > Burn Time (sec)..........1.8 > Peak Thrust (N)..........605 > Propellant Wt. (g).......365 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........577 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$49.99 > > Reload Designation.......K540M-14A > Part Number..............11540L > Diameter.................54mm > RMS Hardware.............54/1706 > Total Impulse (N-sec)....1596.3 > Burn Time (sec)..........2.9 > Peak Thrust (N)..........854 > Propellant Wt. (g).......876.7 > Loaded Wt. (g)...........1275 > Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) > MSRP.....................$104.99 > > The HP-G75M motor and H170M reload kit may only be sold to NAR or Tripoli > Level 1 or higher certified consumers. The J340M and K540M reloads require > Level 2 user certification for purchase. > > Additional Metalstorm reload kits in other popular case sizes are under > development and are planned for release later in the 2010 flying season. > > AeroTech is now taking orders for the new Metalstorm motors and reloads and > deliveries to dealers are expected to begin in about two weeks. > > Representative thrust curves, certification documents, applicable assembly > drawings and instructions will soon be available for download in PDF format > from the Resource Library on the AeroTech website at > http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com. > > AeroTech Consumer Aerospace has a page on Facebook! Follow the very latest > AeroTech news, information, product developments and testing at > http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954 > > AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is a division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, > Inc., Cedar City, UT. > > Respectfully, > > Diane Carlson > AeroTech & ISP Divisions > RCS RMC, Inc > 2113 W 850 N > Cedar City, UT 84721 > 435.865.7100 Ext 101 > dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Mon Mar 22 20:42:04 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:42:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] =?windows-1252?q?Imagination_Soars_With_Sony=92s_Rock?= =?windows-1252?q?et_Project?= Message-ID: <4BA8388C.9050204@hawkfeather.com> Interesting project. http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/03/22/imagination-soars-with-sonys-rocket-project/ Andrew. From t.j.doll at att.net Mon Mar 22 21:13:37 2010 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:13:37 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes Message-ID: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch (predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a 1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech 'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" lightweight parachutes? TIA Tim From appusher at q.com Mon Mar 22 21:27:38 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:27:38 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Check with Mike Fisher. His Queen can fix you right up! Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: t.j.doll at att.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:13:37 +0000 > Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > > OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch (predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a 1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. > > So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech 'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" lightweight parachutes? > > TIA > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Mon Mar 22 21:54:44 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:54:44 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes Message-ID: <1fb11.55eef5e4.38d9a394@aol.com> We ran out of the thin mill a long time ago. We're currently scrambling for a supplier for fabric. Our old source dried up. Brenda has really been working hard to make lots of multi-panel chutes since we are out of all larger pieces. For thin mill, I'd recommend here: _http://topflightrecoveryllc.homestead.com/thinmil.html_ (http://topflightrecoveryllc.homestead.com/thinmil.html) Mike F. In a message dated 3/22/2010 9:28:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, appusher at q.com writes: Check with Mike Fisher. His Queen can fix you right up! Bill From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Mon Mar 22 23:18:41 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:18:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: <1fb11.55eef5e4.38d9a394@aol.com> References: <1fb11.55eef5e4.38d9a394@aol.com> Message-ID: We do try to keep the topflight and binder chutes in stock. All of the topflight thin mil is bright orange. Enjoy, Bob On Mar 22, 2010, at 9:54 PM, Mfreptiles at aol.com wrote: > We ran out of the thin mill a long time ago. We're currently scrambling > for a supplier for fabric. Our old source dried up. Brenda has really been > working hard to make lots of multi-panel chutes since we are out of all > larger pieces. > > For thin mill, I'd recommend here: > _http://topflightrecoveryllc.homestead.com/thinmil.html_ (http://topflightrecoveryllc.homestead.com/thinmil.html) > > Mike F. > > > In a message dated 3/22/2010 9:28:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > appusher at q.com writes: > > Check with Mike Fisher. His Queen can fix you right up! > > > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Mon Mar 22 23:46:00 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:46:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Special......... CTI 54mm reloads........ Message-ID: Boy, as I sit here and wait for reloads from CTI and AT to get here before I head to Mansfield this weekend, I have been going through some of the CTI stuff, and found 5 reloads that need a home................ or be burned..... So buy them before I do.......... 2- 54mm 2G J280 Smokey Sam.......... $71 regular $52 each 3- 54mm 3G J380 Smokey Sam.......... $91 regular $72 each 2- 54mm 3G J360 Skidmark................. $92 regular $81 each 1- 54mm 4G K500 Red Lighting.......... $112 regular $95 each Anyway, first come, first served. Must be a certified flyer, and paid for, unless arrangements are made in advance. Limited to the stock on hand, not from the new delivery. Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From lbragg10 at comcast.net Tue Mar 23 01:00:04 2010 From: lbragg10 at comcast.net (LBragg10) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:00:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT In-Reply-To: <063901caca18$4602b990$d2082cb0$@net> Message-ID: <2053703864.11369801269331204721.JavaMail.root@sz0141a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> So Dennis, You'd like the manufacturers to jeopardize the entire hobby for a measly HP designation?? It is very common sense why these are HP only.? So only certified people can purchase them.? Wouldn't do any one much good if Joe Public went out and purchased this new motor with no restraints from their local hobby shop, loaded it up in their bird and set the pad out in the local grassfield in say August.? Can you say wildfire?? It'd be doubly worse if the idiot(s) got burned up in said fire.? Hello CPSC, good bye rocketry. Just something to think about, Lou ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis S Winningstad" To: "Bill Munds" , rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 4:34:52 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT Here they go again...ALL Sparkys are HP whether they are or not!!! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:39 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Information Release on NEW PROPELLANT Just in from Aerotech-Rocketry........ ? ? AeroTech Dealer Information Release NOTE: (Please do not reply to this email address). Questions and comments can be directed to dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com Tripoli Motor Testing Committee Certifies AeroTech Metalstorm ?Sparky" Motors The Tripoli Motor Testing Committee (TMT) of the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) has certified one new single-use high-power motor and three new high-power reload kits using AeroTech?s unique and exciting new "sparky? propellant, dubbed Metalstorm?. The new motors include the 29 X 124mm single-use HP-G75M, which will be sold in 4, 7 and 10 second delay times, and three RMS? reload kits, the 38/360 H170M-14A, the 38/720 J340M-14A and the 54/1706 K540M-14A. The reload kits fit AeroTech, Rouse-Tech? and Dr. Rocket? RMS hardware, and the single-use HP-G75M will power most popular 29mm-capable kits and all of AeroTech's mid-power kits. The G75M designation includes the "HP-" prefix in anticipation of proposed National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) code language which will classify all sparky motors, including 'G' class and smaller, as "high-power", requiring NAR or Tripoli user certification for purchase and use. Metalstorm is AeroTech?s latest propellant designed for its single-use and RMS reloadable motors. It has completely different visual, audible and performance characteristics than the other sparky propellants currently on the market. Metalstorm ignites easily and produces a large, brilliant white exhaust plume, a much longer yellow-orange dense spark tail, plentiful white sparks that fan out in flight and an ample volume of white smoke. Metalstorm?s high density and relatively high specific impulse results in a higher delivered total impulse for a given volume than some other sparky propellants. This characteristic makes Metalstorm "the performance sparky". Motor burn times using Metalstorm propellant are slightly longer than those produced by White Lightning?, but the total impulse is only slightly lower. Metalstorm motors assemble in an identical fashion to other AeroTech reloads fitting the same hardware. Cleanup is easy with none of the problems plaguing earlier sparky motors. As with all rocket motors using spark-generating propellants, special precautions must be taken to avoid fires around the launch pad by clearing the immediate area of all combustible materials in accordance with applicable fire and safety codes. Performance data, specifications and manufacturer suggested retail prices (MSRP) for the new motors and reload kits are as follows: Single-Use Motor Designations.......HP-G75-4M, -7M, -10M Part Numbers.............77204, 77207, 77210 Diameter.................29mm Length...................124mm Total Impulse (N-sec)....120.4 Burn Time (sec)..........1.6 Propellant Wt. (g).......66.8 Loaded Wt. (g)...........132 Delay Times..............4, 7 & 10 seconds MSRP.....................$19.99 RMS Reloadable Reload Designation.......H170M-14A Part Number..............08170L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/360 Total Impulse (N-sec)....319.9 Burn Time (sec)..........1.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........208 Propellant Wt. (g).......182.5 Loaded Wt. (g)...........330 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$29.99 Reload Designation.......J340M-14A Part Number..............10340L Diameter.................38mm RMS Hardware.............38/720 Total Impulse (N-sec)....651.7 Burn Time (sec)..........1.8 Peak Thrust (N)..........605 Propellant Wt. (g).......365 Loaded Wt. (g)...........577 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$49.99 Reload Designation.......K540M-14A Part Number..............11540L Diameter.................54mm RMS Hardware.............54/1706 Total Impulse (N-sec)....1596.3 Burn Time (sec)..........2.9 Peak Thrust (N)..........854 Propellant Wt. (g).......876.7 Loaded Wt. (g)...........1275 Delay Time...............14 seconds (adjustable) MSRP.....................$104.99 The HP-G75M motor and H170M reload kit may only be sold to NAR or Tripoli Level 1 or higher certified consumers. The J340M and K540M reloads require Level 2 user certification for purchase. Additional Metalstorm reload kits in other popular case sizes are under development and are planned for release later in the 2010 flying season. AeroTech is now taking orders for the new Metalstorm motors and reloads and deliveries to dealers are expected to begin in about two weeks. Representative thrust curves, certification documents, applicable assembly drawings and instructions will soon be available for download in PDF format from the Resource Library on the AeroTech website at http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com. AeroTech Consumer Aerospace has a page on Facebook! Follow the very latest AeroTech news, information, product developments and testing at http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954 AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is a division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc., Cedar City, UT. Respectfully, Diane Carlson AeroTech & ISP Divisions RCS RMC, Inc 2113 W 850 N Cedar City, UT 84721 435.865.7100 Ext 101 dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com ? ????????????????? ???????? ? ???????????????? ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Tue Mar 23 02:04:36 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 02:04:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Sunriver sale....... Message-ID: Howdy, I had a few people ask if the new Aerotech motors are part of the sale. The answer is "yes". However, we have none in stock, as they have just come out, but will be part of our next order. So, HOPEFULLY , they will make it for the May launch schedule The single use, G75 at $19.99 fits into our "hobby pricing" and the rest fall into the high power pricing. Retail pricing for the H170 is $29.99, J340 is $49.99, and the K540 is $104.99 Any other questions, please let me know, Thanks Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. __________________ Please send this to all of your rocketry friends................. OUR March Madness SALE Model Rockets from Flis Kits, Estes,Squirrel Works - all 20% off All Madcow Rocketry Kits- 20% off Mid Power & High Power kits from PML and LOC are 15% off ( 3.9" or smaller airframes) Aerotech kits are all 20% off ------------------------------------ Monster Motors Cases- Under $250 retail, and get 12% off Order $250 RETAIL and get 15% off Order $500 RETAIL and get 20% off Order $1,000 RETAIL and get 25% off (Does not include Aerotech brand special hardware) Estes motors are all 25% off, including bulk packs Aerotech Hobby motors- A through G -all 20% off retail instant rebate on advanced orders---- Order over $250 worth of motors, get a 25% off retail instant rebate These motors can be shipped or picked up at a launch. ------------------------- All Perfectflite & Gwiz electronics are 10% off!!!!! ------------------------ Aerotech Hobby High Power reloads: So here is the deal: Order $200 retail, get a 15% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $500 retail, get a 20% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $1000 retail, get a 25% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $2500 retail, call for your instant rebate on your order.................... ( Does not apply to Aerotech cert motor special) Aerotech H and above reloads delivered either at a May launch that we attend or by special arrangement. Just think, May is just right around the corner!! No limits, so get your friends together for this great deal. Here are the rules for the sale: 1. All orders must be emailed to rocketstore at earthlink.net 2. All orders need to be prepaid, with Paypal or credit card, (cash/check for in store sales-appointment or by arrangement required) 3. Shipping is charged at our cost, no handling fee 4. Sale ends on 3/31/2010 5. Please advise that this sale applies for delivery to a April or May launch, NOT a March launch or delivery. 6. All high power motors needed to be delivered to certified flyers _________________ But wait, just one more thing. Special on Binder Design kits to be announced later...... Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 03:59:08 2010 From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Tim, Have you looked at those 36" military surplus chutes?? You could buy those for $5 or so a while back, and they weigh almost nothing.? Put two of them in a rocket if 36" is too small, and if you can still find them. Larry ________________________________ From: "t.j.doll at att.net" To: Rocket Lost Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 9:13:37 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas.? But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch (predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking to save weight any way I can.? I need a pretty good sized parachute for a 1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. So, where can I find the lightest parachute?? In my experience, Aerotech 'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket).? Anyone know of a good source for ~50" lightweight parachutes? TIA Tim _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 23 07:55:48 2010 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:55:48 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules In-Reply-To: <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> Message-ID: So I seem to remember a discussion in the last couple of years on this list about how the Northwest clubs were trying to figure out how to get Research and commercial launches scheduled on the same day in the same proximity. Did you ever figure out a way to make everyone happy? Is it possible to have an EX launch setup XXXX feet away from a commercial launch? Or did you finally just go back to having a research day and a separate commercial day? The Utah rocket club has a small group of EX people who rightfully feel like they get the shaft every year because we traditionally have the first day of our annual Hellfire launch set aside for a research launch. So while the rest of the club shows up on Friday, the EX group has to pay for an extra night at a hotel so they can be out there on Thursday. So this year there is talk of having the research launch on Friday and just having commercial motor launching on Saturday and Sunday, which really doesn't change anything, it just cuts the whole event short for everyone. So I am hoping that you all might have some insight to how to make everyone happy. The launch site is the Bonneville Salt Flats so we have miles and miles of usable space. From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue Mar 23 08:13:32 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:13:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: <789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BA8DA9C.5090301@hawkfeather.com> Aerocon carries a lot of the surplus chutes: http://aeroconsystems.com/cart/catalog/All_Parachutes-2-1.html Note: most of the chutes come with a lot of shroud lines. Seems to be a military thing. I have one of the 60" chutes with 12 1/4 x 1/2" nylon shrouds line. Very light/slippery fabric. Without the deployment bag, it weighs 340 g. As Larry mentioned, 2 of the 36" chutes would be much lighter & smaller. Aerocon lists them at 28 g. Andrew. Larry Colvin wrote: > Tim, > > Have you looked at those 36" military surplus chutes? You could buy those for $5 or so a while back, and they weigh almost nothing. Put two of them in a rocket if 36" is too small, and if you can still find them. > > Larry > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "t.j.doll at att.net" > To: Rocket Lost > Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 9:13:37 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > > OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch (predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a 1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. > > So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech 'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" lightweight parachutes? > > TIA > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From fred at azinger.com Tue Mar 23 08:16:29 2010 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:16:29 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules In-Reply-To: References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> Message-ID: <005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> If you are TRA members, then there is no issue -- all can launch and you are just shortening the launch by a day for everyone by killing off Thursday. Just join TRA -- get more launch days for your dues. For example -- with the current OROC launch schedule (ignoring Willyville and Tillamook), NAR members can fly 2 days per month from May to October minus August...for a total of 10 HPR flying days. TRA members can fly on EX days, so they enjoy 17 HPR flying days. Just wish they whole membership would take advantage of this opportunity to trade their magazine subscription for 70% more flying days....then we could & would fly EX all weekend ;-) Then everybody can fly more often and EX fliers no longer are required to take Friday's off to fly.... win/win as I see it. IMHO, FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Jack Anderson Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:56 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules So I seem to remember a discussion in the last couple of years on this list about how the Northwest clubs were trying to figure out how to get Research and commercial launches scheduled on the same day in the same proximity. Did you ever figure out a way to make everyone happy? Is it possible to have an EX launch setup XXXX feet away from a commercial launch? Or did you finally just go back to having a research day and a separate commercial day? The Utah rocket club has a small group of EX people who rightfully feel like they get the shaft every year because we traditionally have the first day of our annual Hellfire launch set aside for a research launch. So while the rest of the club shows up on Friday, the EX group has to pay for an extra night at a hotel so they can be out there on Thursday. So this year there is talk of having the research launch on Friday and just having commercial motor launching on Saturday and Sunday, which really doesn't change anything, it just cuts the whole event short for everyone. So I am hoping that you all might have some insight to how to make everyone happy. The launch site is the Bonneville Salt Flats so we have miles and miles of usable space. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 23 08:19:05 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:19:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] this weekend Message-ID: <006701caca9c$2d7bafb0$88730f10$@com> How many of you are going to Mansfield this weekend? From arrsales at cox.net Tue Mar 23 08:22:05 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:22:05 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: <4BA8DA9C.5090301@hawkfeather.com> References: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net><789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4BA8DA9C.5090301@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <9093203ABE5442BE83B83BC642D2E850@apcp.local> I concur, they are very light. I carry those here in Tampa but it would be cheaper to get them from Aerocon. The 60 inchers are very heavy though. The shroud lines are uber thick.. Aerocon claims that the 36 incher performs more like a 42" because of a center shroud line. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:14 AM To: Rocket Lost Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes Aerocon carries a lot of the surplus chutes: http://aeroconsystems.com/cart/catalog/All_Parachutes-2-1.html Note: most of the chutes come with a lot of shroud lines. Seems to be a military thing. I have one of the 60" chutes with 12 1/4 x 1/2" nylon shrouds line. Very light/slippery fabric. Without the deployment bag, it weighs 340 g. As Larry mentioned, 2 of the 36" chutes would be much lighter & smaller. Aerocon lists them at 28 g. Andrew. Larry Colvin wrote: > Tim, > > Have you looked at those 36" military surplus chutes? You could buy those for $5 or so a while back, and they weigh almost nothing. Put two of them in a rocket if 36" is too small, and if you can still find them. > > Larry > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "t.j.doll at att.net" > To: Rocket Lost > Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 9:13:37 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > > OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch (predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a 1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. > > So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech 'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" lightweight parachutes? > > TIA > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Tue Mar 23 08:23:35 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:23:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] this weekend In-Reply-To: <006701caca9c$2d7bafb0$88730f10$@com> References: <006701caca9c$2d7bafb0$88730f10$@com> Message-ID: I will be arriving Friday afternoon with the GSE and will be there (obviously) through Sunday afternoon. - Carl On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Scott Berfield wrote: > How many of you are going to Mansfield this weekend? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 23 08:39:08 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:39:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes Message-ID: I use the 36" ones and they ate super light and pack down tiny. The shrouds are a little fragile so check them carefully each flight. Always Ready Rocketry wrote: >I concur, they are very light. I carry those here in Tampa but it would be >cheaper to get them from Aerocon. The 60 inchers are very heavy though. The >shroud lines are uber thick.. Aerocon claims that the 36 incher performs >more like a 42" because of a center shroud line. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen >Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:14 AM >To: Rocket Lost >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > >Aerocon carries a lot of the surplus chutes: > >http://aeroconsystems.com/cart/catalog/All_Parachutes-2-1.html > >Note: most of the chutes come with a lot of shroud lines. Seems to be a >military thing. I have one of the 60" chutes with 12 1/4 x 1/2" nylon >shrouds line. Very light/slippery fabric. Without the deployment bag, it >weighs 340 g. > >As Larry mentioned, 2 of the 36" chutes would be much lighter & smaller. >Aerocon lists them at 28 g. > >Andrew. > >Larry Colvin wrote: >> Tim, >> >> Have you looked at those 36" military surplus chutes? You could buy those >for $5 or so a while back, and they weigh almost nothing. Put two of them >in a rocket if 36" is too small, and if you can still find them. >> >> Larry >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "t.j.doll at att.net" >> To: Rocket Lost >> Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 9:13:37 PM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes >> >> OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. >But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch >(predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking >to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a >1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. >> >> So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech >'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - >marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" >lightweight parachutes? >> >> TIA >> >> Tim >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From arrsales at cox.net Tue Mar 23 08:50:31 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:50:31 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Doesn't Top Flight make a thin mil 42 inch? U can pack that in an eyedropper. :) LOL -----Original Message----- From: Scott Berfield [mailto:sb at berfield.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:39 AM To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes I use the 36" ones and they ate super light and pack down tiny. The shrouds are a little fragile so check them carefully each flight. Always Ready Rocketry wrote: >I concur, they are very light. I carry those here in Tampa but it would be >cheaper to get them from Aerocon. The 60 inchers are very heavy though. The >shroud lines are uber thick.. Aerocon claims that the 36 incher performs >more like a 42" because of a center shroud line. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen >Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:14 AM >To: Rocket Lost >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > >Aerocon carries a lot of the surplus chutes: > >http://aeroconsystems.com/cart/catalog/All_Parachutes-2-1.html > >Note: most of the chutes come with a lot of shroud lines. Seems to be a >military thing. I have one of the 60" chutes with 12 1/4 x 1/2" nylon >shrouds line. Very light/slippery fabric. Without the deployment bag, it >weighs 340 g. > >As Larry mentioned, 2 of the 36" chutes would be much lighter & smaller. >Aerocon lists them at 28 g. > >Andrew. > >Larry Colvin wrote: >> Tim, >> >> Have you looked at those 36" military surplus chutes? You could buy those >for $5 or so a while back, and they weigh almost nothing. Put two of them >in a rocket if 36" is too small, and if you can still find them. >> >> Larry >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "t.j.doll at att.net" >> To: Rocket Lost >> Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 9:13:37 PM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes >> >> OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. >But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch >(predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking >to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a >1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. >> >> So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech >'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - >marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" >lightweight parachutes? >> >> TIA >> >> Tim >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 23 08:51:59 2010 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:51:59 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules In-Reply-To: <005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> <005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> Message-ID: I have thought about doing that but I can't quit NAR since I am the L3CC for Utah, but as you point out for $60 / year I can add 3 or 4 flying days to my schedule even here in Utah. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred Azinger" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:16 AM To: "'Jack Anderson'" ; Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules > If you are TRA members, then there is no issue -- all can launch and you > are > just shortening the launch by a day for everyone by killing off Thursday. > > Just join TRA -- get more launch days for your dues. > For example -- with the current OROC launch schedule (ignoring Willyville > and Tillamook), NAR members can fly 2 days per month from May to October > minus August...for a total of 10 HPR flying days. TRA members can fly on > EX days, so they enjoy 17 HPR flying days. > > Just wish they whole membership would take advantage of this opportunity > to > trade their magazine subscription for 70% more flying days....then we > could > & would fly EX all weekend ;-) > Then everybody can fly more often and EX fliers no longer are required to > take Friday's off to fly.... win/win as I see it. > > IMHO, > FredA > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Jack Anderson > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:56 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules > > So I seem to remember a discussion in the last couple of years on this > list > about how the Northwest clubs were trying to figure out how to get > Research > and commercial launches scheduled on the same day in the same proximity. > Did you ever figure out a way to make everyone happy? Is it possible to > have an EX launch setup XXXX feet away from a commercial launch? Or did > you > > finally just go back to having a research day and a separate commercial > day? > > The Utah rocket club has a small group of EX people who rightfully feel > like > > they get the shaft every year because we traditionally have the first day > of > > our annual Hellfire launch set aside for a research launch. So while the > rest of the club shows up on Friday, the EX group has to pay for an extra > night at a hotel so they can be out there on Thursday. So this year > there > is talk of having the research launch on Friday and just having commercial > motor launching on Saturday and Sunday, which really doesn't change > anything, it just cuts the whole event short for everyone. So I am hoping > that you all might have some insight to how to make everyone happy. The > launch site is the Bonneville Salt Flats so we have miles and miles of > usable space. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From stevet19759 at comcast.net Tue Mar 23 08:55:55 2010 From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:55:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules In-Reply-To: <005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> <005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> Message-ID: <4BA8E48B.8020608@comcast.net> Fred, The "join TRA" solution is good for those of us who are flying on our own - without families - and with an L2 HPR certification. But IIRC, the rules still don't allow people without an L2 to fly at research launches, and that also means no kids flying rockets. That's a problem for some families and a killer for any Scout, 4-H or Campfire groups that might otherwise join us. And, again if I recall correctly, the real issue is not the TRA board per se, but the NFPA which classifies commercial and amateur (EX) motors differently. To allow kids to fly at a launch with EX motors, you'd have to persuade NFPA that it's not an additional risk. I don't know what's involved with that, but it's considerably more than a few letters to the TRA board. I hope someone can work out an acceptable compromise. Until then, we'll have to have separate EX and commercial days or entirely separate launch sites (more than 1 NM apart, so attendees at the commercial launch are outside of the "minimum distance" rules for the EX launch and vice versa, and that then requires a second waiver and probably new landowners.) So yes, join either organization and get your L2. (I still claim it *can* be easier to get an NAR certification just because it doesn't depend on you and Greg, but it doesn't really matter.) Then join or maintain your TRA membership and come fly commercial on research days. Send the family to one of the other activities in Bend on that day, then have them join you on the range for the commercial days. -Steve Fred Azinger wrote: > If you are TRA members, then there is no issue -- all can launch and you are > just shortening the launch by a day for everyone by killing off Thursday. > > Just join TRA -- get more launch days for your dues. > For example -- with the current OROC launch schedule (ignoring Willyville > and Tillamook), NAR members can fly 2 days per month from May to October > minus August...for a total of 10 HPR flying days. TRA members can fly on > EX days, so they enjoy 17 HPR flying days. > > Just wish they whole membership would take advantage of this opportunity to > trade their magazine subscription for 70% more flying days....then we could > & would fly EX all weekend ;-) > Then everybody can fly more often and EX fliers no longer are required to > take Friday's off to fly.... win/win as I see it. > > IMHO, > FredA > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Jack Anderson > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:56 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules > > So I seem to remember a discussion in the last couple of years on this list > about how the Northwest clubs were trying to figure out how to get Research > and commercial launches scheduled on the same day in the same proximity. > Did you ever figure out a way to make everyone happy? Is it possible to > have an EX launch setup XXXX feet away from a commercial launch? Or did you > > finally just go back to having a research day and a separate commercial day? > > The Utah rocket club has a small group of EX people who rightfully feel like > > they get the shaft every year because we traditionally have the first day of > > our annual Hellfire launch set aside for a research launch. So while the > rest of the club shows up on Friday, the EX group has to pay for an extra > night at a hotel so they can be out there on Thursday. So this year there > is talk of having the research launch on Friday and just having commercial > motor launching on Saturday and Sunday, which really doesn't change > anything, it just cuts the whole event short for everyone. So I am hoping > that you all might have some insight to how to make everyone happy. The > launch site is the Bonneville Salt Flats so we have miles and miles of > usable space. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From greg at bigredbee.com Tue Mar 23 09:15:52 2010 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:15:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules In-Reply-To: <4BA8E48B.8020608@comcast.net> References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> <005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> <4BA8E48B.8020608@comcast.net> Message-ID: No L2 (or even L1) needed to fly commercial motors on research days, just a TRA membership. Must be 18 or older to fly. On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Steve Tarr wrote: > Fred, > The "join TRA" solution is good for those of us who are flying on our own - > without families - and with an L2 HPR certification. But IIRC, > the rules still don't allow people without an L2 to fly at research > launches, and that also means no kids flying rockets. That's a problem for > some families and a killer for any Scout, 4-H or Campfire groups that might > otherwise join us. > > And, again if I recall correctly, the real issue is not the TRA board per > se, but the NFPA which classifies commercial and amateur (EX) motors > differently. To allow kids to fly at a launch with EX motors, you'd have to > persuade NFPA that it's not an additional risk. I don't know what's > involved with that, but it's considerably more than a few letters to the TRA > board. > > I hope someone can work out an acceptable compromise. Until then, we'll > have to have separate EX and commercial days or entirely separate launch > sites (more than 1 NM apart, so attendees at the commercial launch are > outside of the "minimum distance" rules for the EX launch and vice versa, > and that then requires a second waiver and probably new landowners.) > > So yes, join either organization and get your L2. (I still claim it *can* > be easier to get an NAR certification just because it doesn't depend on you > and Greg, but it doesn't really matter.) Then join or maintain your TRA > membership and come fly commercial on research days. > Send the family to one of the other activities in Bend on that day, then > have them join you on the range for the commercial days. > > -Steve > > > > Fred Azinger wrote: > >> If you are TRA members, then there is no issue -- all can launch and you >> are >> just shortening the launch by a day for everyone by killing off Thursday. >> >> Just join TRA -- get more launch days for your dues. >> For example -- with the current OROC launch schedule (ignoring Willyville >> and Tillamook), NAR members can fly 2 days per month from May to October >> minus August...for a total of 10 HPR flying days. TRA members can fly on >> EX days, so they enjoy 17 HPR flying days. >> >> Just wish they whole membership would take advantage of this opportunity >> to >> trade their magazine subscription for 70% more flying days....then we >> could >> & would fly EX all weekend ;-) >> Then everybody can fly more often and EX fliers no longer are required to >> take Friday's off to fly.... win/win as I see it. >> >> IMHO, >> FredA >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Jack Anderson >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:56 AM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules >> >> So I seem to remember a discussion in the last couple of years on this >> list about how the Northwest clubs were trying to figure out how to get >> Research and commercial launches scheduled on the same day in the same >> proximity. Did you ever figure out a way to make everyone happy? Is it >> possible to have an EX launch setup XXXX feet away from a commercial launch? >> Or did you >> >> finally just go back to having a research day and a separate commercial >> day? >> >> The Utah rocket club has a small group of EX people who rightfully feel >> like >> >> they get the shaft every year because we traditionally have the first day >> of >> >> our annual Hellfire launch set aside for a research launch. So while the >> rest of the club shows up on Friday, the EX group has to pay for an extra >> night at a hotel so they can be out there on Thursday. So this year there >> is talk of having the research launch on Friday and just having commercial >> motor launching on Saturday and Sunday, which really doesn't change >> anything, it just cuts the whole event short for everyone. So I am hoping >> that you all might have some insight to how to make everyone happy. The >> launch site is the Bonneville Salt Flats so we have miles and miles of >> usable space. >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From fred.azinger at intel.com Tue Mar 23 10:34:59 2010 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:34:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules In-Reply-To: References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> <005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> <4BA8E48B.8020608@comcast.net> Message-ID: Steve -- you are right -- that would inhibit low power flights which would not be family friendly.... But joining TRA would still enable 70% more flying days for HPR.... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:16 AM To: stevet19759 at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules No L2 (or even L1) needed to fly commercial motors on research days, just a TRA membership. Must be 18 or older to fly. On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Steve Tarr wrote: > Fred, > The "join TRA" solution is good for those of us who are flying on our own - > without families - and with an L2 HPR certification. But IIRC, > the rules still don't allow people without an L2 to fly at research > launches, and that also means no kids flying rockets. That's a problem for > some families and a killer for any Scout, 4-H or Campfire groups that might > otherwise join us. > > And, again if I recall correctly, the real issue is not the TRA board per > se, but the NFPA which classifies commercial and amateur (EX) motors > differently. To allow kids to fly at a launch with EX motors, you'd have to > persuade NFPA that it's not an additional risk. I don't know what's > involved with that, but it's considerably more than a few letters to the TRA > board. > > I hope someone can work out an acceptable compromise. Until then, we'll > have to have separate EX and commercial days or entirely separate launch > sites (more than 1 NM apart, so attendees at the commercial launch are > outside of the "minimum distance" rules for the EX launch and vice versa, > and that then requires a second waiver and probably new landowners.) > > So yes, join either organization and get your L2. (I still claim it *can* > be easier to get an NAR certification just because it doesn't depend on you > and Greg, but it doesn't really matter.) Then join or maintain your TRA > membership and come fly commercial on research days. > Send the family to one of the other activities in Bend on that day, then > have them join you on the range for the commercial days. > > -Steve > > > > Fred Azinger wrote: > >> If you are TRA members, then there is no issue -- all can launch and you >> are >> just shortening the launch by a day for everyone by killing off Thursday. >> >> Just join TRA -- get more launch days for your dues. >> For example -- with the current OROC launch schedule (ignoring Willyville >> and Tillamook), NAR members can fly 2 days per month from May to October >> minus August...for a total of 10 HPR flying days. TRA members can fly on >> EX days, so they enjoy 17 HPR flying days. >> >> Just wish they whole membership would take advantage of this opportunity >> to >> trade their magazine subscription for 70% more flying days....then we >> could >> & would fly EX all weekend ;-) >> Then everybody can fly more often and EX fliers no longer are required to >> take Friday's off to fly.... win/win as I see it. >> >> IMHO, >> FredA >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Jack Anderson >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:56 AM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules >> >> So I seem to remember a discussion in the last couple of years on this >> list about how the Northwest clubs were trying to figure out how to get >> Research and commercial launches scheduled on the same day in the same >> proximity. Did you ever figure out a way to make everyone happy? Is it >> possible to have an EX launch setup XXXX feet away from a commercial launch? >> Or did you >> >> finally just go back to having a research day and a separate commercial >> day? >> >> The Utah rocket club has a small group of EX people who rightfully feel >> like >> >> they get the shaft every year because we traditionally have the first day >> of >> >> our annual Hellfire launch set aside for a research launch. So while the >> rest of the club shows up on Friday, the EX group has to pay for an extra >> night at a hotel so they can be out there on Thursday. So this year there >> is talk of having the research launch on Friday and just having commercial >> motor launching on Saturday and Sunday, which really doesn't change >> anything, it just cuts the whole event short for everyone. So I am hoping >> that you all might have some insight to how to make everyone happy. The >> launch site is the Bonneville Salt Flats so we have miles and miles of >> usable space. >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From dave at skagitlapidary.com Tue Mar 23 11:02:42 2010 From: dave at skagitlapidary.com (Dave Ebersole) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:02:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Info on Tube Fin Rocket Message-ID: <4BA90242.6090607@skagitlapidary.com> I bought a tube fin rocket from Kris Hull, that came form Mike Watkins, named "A Brick Short Of A Stack" Does anyone know Mike or have contact info? I'd like to find out if anyone has seen it fly. It looks like it may have a date on it from a 2003 FITS flight. Thanks to all who graciously offered to teach me what they had to learn the hard way. I promise I will help others when my turn comes. Expect the phone to ring. Thanks again, Dave Ebersole From joebevier at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 11:09:33 2010 From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:09:33 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules In-Reply-To: References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> <005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> <4BA8E48B.8020608@comcast.net> Message-ID: <45717541003231109t4d2776e0t9ed6e4009fc2eba0@mail.gmail.com> When I pull the OROC GSE trailer to the Brothers site on Thursday night or Friday I don't want to sit around until Saturday waiting to fly. I joined TRA this fall to take advantage of the 70% more flying days that Fred points out. I am currently NAR also but will probably let it lapse this year. Don't get me wrong, I like NAR. NAR membership just doesn't fit my needs as well and costs equal to a J motor. No benefit to me joining both every year. -Joe On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Azinger, Fred wrote: > Steve -- you are right -- that would inhibit low power flights which would > not be family friendly.... > But joining TRA would still enable 70% more flying days for HPR.... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Greg Clark > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:16 AM > To: stevet19759 at comcast.net > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules > > No L2 (or even L1) needed to fly commercial motors on research days, just > a > TRA membership. Must be 18 or older to fly. > > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Steve Tarr > wrote: > > > Fred, > > The "join TRA" solution is good for those of us who are flying on our own > - > > without families - and with an L2 HPR certification. But IIRC, > > the rules still don't allow people without an L2 to fly at research > > launches, and that also means no kids flying rockets. That's a problem > for > > some families and a killer for any Scout, 4-H or Campfire groups that > might > > otherwise join us. > > > > And, again if I recall correctly, the real issue is not the TRA board per > > se, but the NFPA which classifies commercial and amateur (EX) motors > > differently. To allow kids to fly at a launch with EX motors, you'd have > to > > persuade NFPA that it's not an additional risk. I don't know what's > > involved with that, but it's considerably more than a few letters to the > TRA > > board. > > > > I hope someone can work out an acceptable compromise. Until then, we'll > > have to have separate EX and commercial days or entirely separate launch > > sites (more than 1 NM apart, so attendees at the commercial launch are > > outside of the "minimum distance" rules for the EX launch and vice versa, > > and that then requires a second waiver and probably new landowners.) > > > > So yes, join either organization and get your L2. (I still claim it > *can* > > be easier to get an NAR certification just because it doesn't depend on > you > > and Greg, but it doesn't really matter.) Then join or maintain your TRA > > membership and come fly commercial on research days. > > Send the family to one of the other activities in Bend on that day, then > > have them join you on the range for the commercial days. > > > > -Steve > > > > > > > > Fred Azinger wrote: > > > >> If you are TRA members, then there is no issue -- all can launch and you > >> are > >> just shortening the launch by a day for everyone by killing off > Thursday. > >> > >> Just join TRA -- get more launch days for your dues. > >> For example -- with the current OROC launch schedule (ignoring > Willyville > >> and Tillamook), NAR members can fly 2 days per month from May to October > >> minus August...for a total of 10 HPR flying days. TRA members can fly > on > >> EX days, so they enjoy 17 HPR flying days. > >> > >> Just wish they whole membership would take advantage of this opportunity > >> to > >> trade their magazine subscription for 70% more flying days....then we > >> could > >> & would fly EX all weekend ;-) > >> Then everybody can fly more often and EX fliers no longer are required > to > >> take Friday's off to fly.... win/win as I see it. > >> > >> IMHO, > >> FredA > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of Jack Anderson > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:56 AM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules > >> > >> So I seem to remember a discussion in the last couple of years on this > >> list about how the Northwest clubs were trying to figure out how to get > >> Research and commercial launches scheduled on the same day in the same > >> proximity. Did you ever figure out a way to make everyone happy? Is it > >> possible to have an EX launch setup XXXX feet away from a commercial > launch? > >> Or did you > >> > >> finally just go back to having a research day and a separate commercial > >> day? > >> > >> The Utah rocket club has a small group of EX people who rightfully feel > >> like > >> > >> they get the shaft every year because we traditionally have the first > day > >> of > >> > >> our annual Hellfire launch set aside for a research launch. So while > the > >> rest of the club shows up on Friday, the EX group has to pay for an > extra > >> night at a hotel so they can be out there on Thursday. So this year > there > >> is talk of having the research launch on Friday and just having > commercial > >> motor launching on Saturday and Sunday, which really doesn't change > >> anything, it just cuts the whole event short for everyone. So I am > hoping > >> that you all might have some insight to how to make everyone happy. The > >> launch site is the Bonneville Salt Flats so we have miles and miles of > >> usable space. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 18:06:40 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:06:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com><000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com><005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> <4BA8E48B.8020608@comcast.net> <45717541003231109t4d2776e0t9ed6e4009fc2eba0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8995EB72CB5C44EF937869A8414B9F46@LaptopKrausert> Joe, As like last year, I truly appreciated those of you hauling the trailer. A Thursday afternoon or early Friday morning shall ensure we are setup early Friday. Last year was very successful. Made for equipment even on EX days. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Bevier" To: "Azinger, Fred" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules > When I pull the OROC GSE trailer to the Brothers site on Thursday night or > Friday I don't want to sit around until Saturday waiting to fly. I joined > TRA this fall to take advantage of the 70% more flying days that Fred > points > out. I am currently NAR also but will probably let it lapse this year. > Don't get me wrong, I like NAR. NAR membership just doesn't fit my needs > as well and costs equal to a J motor. No benefit to me joining both every > year. > > -Joe > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Azinger, Fred > wrote: > >> Steve -- you are right -- that would inhibit low power flights which >> would >> not be family friendly.... >> But joining TRA would still enable 70% more flying days for HPR.... >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Greg Clark >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:16 AM >> To: stevet19759 at comcast.net >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules >> >> No L2 (or even L1) needed to fly commercial motors on research days, >> just >> a >> TRA membership. Must be 18 or older to fly. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Steve Tarr >> wrote: >> >> > Fred, >> > The "join TRA" solution is good for those of us who are flying on our >> > own >> - >> > without families - and with an L2 HPR certification. But IIRC, >> > the rules still don't allow people without an L2 to fly at research >> > launches, and that also means no kids flying rockets. That's a problem >> for >> > some families and a killer for any Scout, 4-H or Campfire groups that >> might >> > otherwise join us. >> > >> > And, again if I recall correctly, the real issue is not the TRA board >> > per >> > se, but the NFPA which classifies commercial and amateur (EX) motors >> > differently. To allow kids to fly at a launch with EX motors, you'd >> > have >> to >> > persuade NFPA that it's not an additional risk. I don't know what's >> > involved with that, but it's considerably more than a few letters to >> > the >> TRA >> > board. >> > >> > I hope someone can work out an acceptable compromise. Until then, >> > we'll >> > have to have separate EX and commercial days or entirely separate >> > launch >> > sites (more than 1 NM apart, so attendees at the commercial launch are >> > outside of the "minimum distance" rules for the EX launch and vice >> > versa, >> > and that then requires a second waiver and probably new landowners.) >> > >> > So yes, join either organization and get your L2. (I still claim it >> *can* >> > be easier to get an NAR certification just because it doesn't depend on >> you >> > and Greg, but it doesn't really matter.) Then join or maintain your >> > TRA >> > membership and come fly commercial on research days. >> > Send the family to one of the other activities in Bend on that day, >> > then >> > have them join you on the range for the commercial days. >> > >> > -Steve >> > >> > >> > >> > Fred Azinger wrote: >> > >> >> If you are TRA members, then there is no issue -- all can launch and >> >> you >> >> are >> >> just shortening the launch by a day for everyone by killing off >> Thursday. >> >> >> >> Just join TRA -- get more launch days for your dues. >> >> For example -- with the current OROC launch schedule (ignoring >> Willyville >> >> and Tillamook), NAR members can fly 2 days per month from May to >> >> October >> >> minus August...for a total of 10 HPR flying days. TRA members can >> >> fly >> on >> >> EX days, so they enjoy 17 HPR flying days. >> >> >> >> Just wish they whole membership would take advantage of this >> >> opportunity >> >> to >> >> trade their magazine subscription for 70% more flying days....then we >> >> could >> >> & would fly EX all weekend ;-) >> >> Then everybody can fly more often and EX fliers no longer are required >> to >> >> take Friday's off to fly.... win/win as I see it. >> >> >> >> IMHO, >> >> FredA >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> ] >> >> On Behalf Of Jack Anderson >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:56 AM >> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules >> >> >> >> So I seem to remember a discussion in the last couple of years on this >> >> list about how the Northwest clubs were trying to figure out how to >> >> get >> >> Research and commercial launches scheduled on the same day in the same >> >> proximity. Did you ever figure out a way to make everyone happy? Is >> >> it >> >> possible to have an EX launch setup XXXX feet away from a commercial >> launch? >> >> Or did you >> >> >> >> finally just go back to having a research day and a separate >> >> commercial >> >> day? >> >> >> >> The Utah rocket club has a small group of EX people who rightfully >> >> feel >> >> like >> >> >> >> they get the shaft every year because we traditionally have the first >> day >> >> of >> >> >> >> our annual Hellfire launch set aside for a research launch. So while >> the >> >> rest of the club shows up on Friday, the EX group has to pay for an >> extra >> >> night at a hotel so they can be out there on Thursday. So this year >> there >> >> is talk of having the research launch on Friday and just having >> commercial >> >> motor launching on Saturday and Sunday, which really doesn't change >> >> anything, it just cuts the whole event short for everyone. So I am >> hoping >> >> that you all might have some insight to how to make everyone happy. >> >> The >> >> launch site is the Bonneville Salt Flats so we have miles and miles of >> >> usable space. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From joebevier at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 18:49:59 2010 From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:49:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Buzz Message-ID: I've never done this before but last night I voted for Buzz Aldrin on dancing with the stars. He was not great but he's a real live hero and a sentimental favorite for me. If I can dance that well when I'm 80 that will be a big victory. There he goes inspiring is again! Maybe we can get him to attend our national event. -Joe From brodwcjj at integrity.com Tue Mar 23 20:45:55 2010 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:45:55 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <72eefae97f6298d295a76ace616b4f66.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> Couple thoughts: IMHOs Take away family friendly launches and the hobby dies with old farts like me. And family friendly needs the Brothers site to keep dad's like me coming with kids. Also so often I hear people debate joining one organization or the other. Or discussing switching. There isn't any rule against joining both is there? And the argument about the double dues cost usually comes from rocketeers that spend more than a years dues on a nose cone. or an L2 reload. I've been with NAR for years and took it to L2. Now I have dual membership. Why add TRA? I might get into Mid and HPR Ex at some point (on a Friday, or August of course :-) so wanted to position my membership with TRA Doesn't matter to me if I can do everything with TRA I'd never leave NAR unless I left rocketry. Just my two cents, Dustin BAR-NAR-TRA Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:51:59 -0600 From: "Jack Anderson" To: "Fred Azinger" , Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I have thought about doing that but I can't quit NAR since I am the L3CC for Utah, but as you point out for $60 / year I can add 3 or 4 flying days to my schedule even here in Utah. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 21:22:56 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:22:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules References: <72eefae97f6298d295a76ace616b4f66.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <5592AC278B5A4A3A82033754637CD5AD@LaptopKrausert> OregonRockeyru is dedicated and devoted to all the promotes model, sport and amatuer rocketry. The research folks fit in that category, and we are certainly obligated. The EX folks deserve every chance to fly as anyone else. When joining OROC it seemed that the mix via launch days worked well. I hope that is doable. Besides as Fred put it, a TRA member 18 and older can fly commercial during EX days. While I'd love to offer more EX days, the challenge today is EX flyers. Provisioning more days would only impact commercial activity. If EX activity were to grow within OROC, we'd be forced to find more opportunities to fly. Absolutely willing to push that past the board and members. I tried boys and girls to create a mega weekend. Two days EX and two days commercial. No one jumped. We still have Labor day as an option. But we need the demand for both. Proud member of TRA Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules > Couple thoughts: IMHOs > > Take away family friendly launches and the hobby dies with old farts like > me. And family friendly needs the Brothers site to keep dad's like me > coming with kids. > > Also so often I hear people debate joining one organization or the other. > Or discussing switching. There isn't any rule against joining both is > there? > And the argument about the double dues cost usually comes from rocketeers > that spend more than a years dues on a nose cone. or an L2 reload. > I've been with NAR for years and took it to L2. Now I have dual > membership. > Why add TRA? I might get into Mid and HPR Ex at some point (on a Friday, > or August of course :-) so wanted to position my membership with TRA > > Doesn't matter to me if I can do everything with TRA I'd never leave NAR > unless I left rocketry. > Just my two cents, > Dustin BAR-NAR-TRA > > > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:51:59 -0600 > From: "Jack Anderson" > > To: "Fred Azinger" >, > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I have thought about doing that but I can't quit NAR since I am the L3CC > for > Utah, but as you point out for $60 / year I can add 3 or 4 flying days to > my > schedule even here in Utah. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Tue Mar 23 21:47:23 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 04:47:23 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2 Message-ID: Well, finally starting on FITS rocket #2 to replace the one I destroyed last year. Not much to see yet, but as it comes together, pics will be at: http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/FireInTheSky2# From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Mar 24 02:35:42 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 02:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules In-Reply-To: <4BA8E48B.8020608@comcast.net> References: <1513d.bd7c0c4.38d91ed6@aol.com> <000b01caca03$4a317bb0$de947310$@com> <005f01caca9b$d79c8060$86d58120$@com> <4BA8E48B.8020608@comcast.net> Message-ID: <215511bb3339f7c13a94dfca607204da.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> > And, again if I recall correctly, the real issue is not the TRA board > per se, but the NFPA which classifies commercial and amateur (EX) motors > differently. To allow kids to fly at a launch with EX motors, you'd > have to persuade NFPA that it's not an additional risk. I don't know > what's involved with that, but it's considerably more than a few letters > to the TRA board. When pigs fly first class and humans fly in crates in the cargo bay, Arabs and Israelis kiss and make up, and matter and antimatter peacefully coexist. You have to understand the NFPA's role in the history of rocketry, its committee structure, and its core constituency to appreciate its position. +McG+ > Fred, > The "join TRA" solution is good for those of us who are flying on our > own - without families - and with an L2 HPR certification. But IIRC, > the rules still don't allow people without an L2 to fly at research > launches, and that also means no kids flying rockets. That's a problem > for some families and a killer for any Scout, 4-H or Campfire groups > that might otherwise join us. > > And, again if I recall correctly, the real issue is not the TRA board > per se, but the NFPA which classifies commercial and amateur (EX) motors > differently. To allow kids to fly at a launch with EX motors, you'd > have to persuade NFPA that it's not an additional risk. I don't know > what's involved with that, but it's considerably more than a few letters > to the TRA board. > > I hope someone can work out an acceptable compromise. Until then, we'll > have to have separate EX and commercial days or entirely separate launch > sites (more than 1 NM apart, so attendees at the commercial launch are > outside of the "minimum distance" rules for the EX launch and vice > versa, and that then requires a second waiver and probably new > landowners.) > > So yes, join either organization and get your L2. (I still claim it > *can* be easier to get an NAR certification just because it doesn't > depend on you and Greg, but it doesn't really matter.) Then join or > maintain your TRA membership and come fly commercial on research days. > Send the family to one of the other activities in Bend on that day, then > have them join you on the range for the commercial days. > > -Steve > > > Fred Azinger wrote: >> If you are TRA members, then there is no issue -- all can launch and you >> are >> just shortening the launch by a day for everyone by killing off >> Thursday. >> >> Just join TRA -- get more launch days for your dues. >> For example -- with the current OROC launch schedule (ignoring >> Willyville >> and Tillamook), NAR members can fly 2 days per month from May to October >> minus August...for a total of 10 HPR flying days. TRA members can fly >> on >> EX days, so they enjoy 17 HPR flying days. >> >> Just wish they whole membership would take advantage of this opportunity >> to >> trade their magazine subscription for 70% more flying days....then we >> could >> & would fly EX all weekend ;-) >> Then everybody can fly more often and EX fliers no longer are required >> to >> take Friday's off to fly.... win/win as I see it. >> >> IMHO, >> FredA >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Jack Anderson >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:56 AM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] EX Launch rules >> >> So I seem to remember a discussion in the last couple of years on this >> list >> about how the Northwest clubs were trying to figure out how to get >> Research >> and commercial launches scheduled on the same day in the same proximity. >> Did you ever figure out a way to make everyone happy? Is it possible to >> have an EX launch setup XXXX feet away from a commercial launch? Or did >> you >> >> finally just go back to having a research day and a separate commercial >> day? >> >> The Utah rocket club has a small group of EX people who rightfully feel >> like >> >> they get the shaft every year because we traditionally have the first >> day of >> >> our annual Hellfire launch set aside for a research launch. So while >> the >> rest of the club shows up on Friday, the EX group has to pay for an >> extra >> night at a hotel so they can be out there on Thursday. So this year >> there >> is talk of having the research launch on Friday and just having >> commercial >> motor launching on Saturday and Sunday, which really doesn't change >> anything, it just cuts the whole event short for everyone. So I am >> hoping >> that you all might have some insight to how to make everyone happy. The >> launch site is the Bonneville Salt Flats so we have miles and miles of >> usable space. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 24 06:32:54 2010 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:32:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] this weekend In-Reply-To: <006701caca9c$2d7bafb0$88730f10$@com> References: <006701caca9c$2d7bafb0$88730f10$@com> Message-ID: 2 Mark > From: sb at berfield.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:19:05 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] this weekend > > How many of you are going to Mansfield this weekend? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ From worthenc at msn.com Wed Mar 24 08:34:30 2010 From: worthenc at msn.com (JAMES C WORTHEN) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:34:30 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here is a possible source from eBay for the military 'chutes; http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-5-36-Inch-Parachutes-for-mid-high-power-rockets_W0QQitemZ400110390235QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d28700bdb J C Worthen ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Colvin To: t.j.doll at att.net ; Rocket Lost Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:59 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes Tim, Have you looked at those 36" military surplus chutes? You could buy those for $5 or so a while back, and they weigh almost nothing. Put two of them in a rocket if 36" is too small, and if you can still find them. Larry ________________________________ From: "t.j.doll at att.net" > To: Rocket Lost > Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 9:13:37 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch (predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a 1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech 'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" lightweight parachutes? TIA Tim _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From worthenc at msn.com Wed Mar 24 08:36:23 2010 From: worthenc at msn.com (JAMES C WORTHEN) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:36:23 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here's another one: http://cgi.ebay.com/42-Inch-Military-Parachute-great-4-rocketry_W0QQitemZ160414703706QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item255976205a J C ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Colvin To: t.j.doll at att.net ; Rocket Lost Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:59 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes Tim, Have you looked at those 36" military surplus chutes? You could buy those for $5 or so a while back, and they weigh almost nothing. Put two of them in a rocket if 36" is too small, and if you can still find them. Larry ________________________________ From: "t.j.doll at att.net" > To: Rocket Lost > Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 9:13:37 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch (predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a 1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech 'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" lightweight parachutes? TIA Tim _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 10:02:46 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:02:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: References: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have 3 of those light weight chutes from Ebay. 2 of them are 48 inch and one is 36 inch they work great. I dyed mine an orange/red color for better visibility in the sky and in the sage. I can pack the 48 inch chute into a 2 inch airframe with easy. I can also vouch for their sturdiness as I have had them deployed early, once was a delay malfunction and another was drag separation. The chutes survived as did the rockets baring one that came back with a very small zipper. When you first hold one in your hand you will think the fabric is not strong enough but I can tell you it is. The fabric is so thin you can see through it. I would keep an eye on the sellers chutes as you can get lucky like I did and get your chutes for $1 a piece and it is the same seller I got mine from. Chris Guenther On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:34 AM, JAMES C WORTHEN wrote: > Here is a possible source from eBay for the military 'chutes; > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-5-36-Inch-Parachutes-for-mid-high-power-rockets_W0QQitemZ400110390235QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d28700bdb > < > http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-5-36-Inch-Parachutes-for-mid-high-power-rockets_W0QQitemZ400110390235QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d28700bdb > > > > J C Worthen > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Colvin > To: t.j.doll at att.net ; Rocket Lost rockets at rocketsnw.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:59 AM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > > > Tim, > > Have you looked at those 36" military surplus chutes? You could buy those > for $5 or so a while back, and they weigh almost nothing. Put two of them in > a rocket if 36" is too small, and if you can still find them. > > Larry > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "t.j.doll at att.net" > > To: Rocket Lost > > Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 9:13:37 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > > OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. > But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch > (predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking > to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a 1.5 > kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. > > So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech > 'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - > marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" > lightweight parachutes? > > TIA > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets< > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets< > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From sb at berfield.com Wed Mar 24 10:06:58 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:06:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart Message-ID: <005501cacb74$6b14ca90$413e5fb0$@com> Hi all, Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to skip putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and sort of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go now that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar situations? Scott From arrsales at cox.net Wed Mar 24 10:11:34 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:11:34 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart In-Reply-To: <005501cacb74$6b14ca90$413e5fb0$@com> References: <005501cacb74$6b14ca90$413e5fb0$@com> Message-ID: <93FC57BD5D1C4804A1C98E74B9F35CA6@apcp.local> If you are using electronics with a plugged motor then connect a piece of spare shock cord to the eyebolt of the plugged closure and just attach it to the quick link of the recovery harness after you insert the motor. That's what I do for 38's but then again I don't know many people who do EX for 29mm.. :-/ -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:07 PM To: 'RocketsNW' Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart Hi all, Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to skip putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and sort of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go now that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar situations? Scott _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 10:15:14 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:15:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart In-Reply-To: <005501cacb74$6b14ca90$413e5fb0$@com> References: <005501cacb74$6b14ca90$413e5fb0$@com> Message-ID: Scott I use blue painters tape at the aft end of the motor and layer it thick enough that you can not get it to slide into the mount. I then start removing a tiny bit of tape at a time until it will cram in very tight. If you do it that way make sure you have a ram rod that will reach the forward end of the motor from the forward end of the rocket so you can get the motor out after flight. The reason for the blue painters tape is that it comes off easy and does not leave a sticky spot on the casing. Chris Guenther On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Scott Berfield wrote: > Hi all, > > > > Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to skip > putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and > sort > of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). > > > > Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go now > that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar > situations? > > > > Scott > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Wed Mar 24 15:14:38 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:14:38 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart Message-ID: <66D9ABACB55740B489D64A69F37F15E5@Desktop> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Dunkle" To: "Scott Berfield" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart > Use masking or the blue tape. Wind it on the motor tube in a barbur > pole fashion. You may have to experement to get the thickness right. When > it's right you can "screw" the motor into the mount. It won't pull > straight out but it will simply unscrew opposite way it went > in........Mark > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Berfield" > To: "'RocketsNW'" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:06 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart > > >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to >> skip >> putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and >> sort >> of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). >> >> >> >> Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go >> now >> that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar >> situations? >> >> >> >> Scott >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > From robert.krausert at intel.com Wed Mar 24 15:43:49 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:43:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart In-Reply-To: <66D9ABACB55740B489D64A69F37F15E5@Desktop> References: <66D9ABACB55740B489D64A69F37F15E5@Desktop> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E82231@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> For me, I'm trying something new this year. Using a forward retention technique. I drilled a hole in my boosters bulk plate just below the U-bolt for my recovery harness. I wrap Kevlar pull tape around that inset groove of the motors forward closure. Then secure it with a hose clamp. Then to install the motor, I'm going to run a solid wire down through the bulk plate and out the aft end. Attach the pull tape and pull it up through the hole. Install the motor and pull the Kevlar tight, and secure it to the u-bolt. Since I don't use motor deploy, this seems to work. Couple lessons as I created this. Avoid the hose clamp creating a shear point of the Kevlar. I tied a standard knot at the end and wrapped several times in that inset section of the forward closure. And make sure the Kevlar comes out inside on the forward side. If you exit on the aft side of the hose clamp, I see the clamp as a shear potential. We'll see how it works. And if the FSO approves. For now, it looks very good and should be safe. Just need to be strong enough for the weight of the motor case and motor resin during the point when the recovery gear extends and stops. Lot of forces at that moment. But it looks like it should hold just fine. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Dunkle Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:15 PM To: rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Dunkle" To: "Scott Berfield" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart > Use masking or the blue tape. Wind it on the motor tube in a barbur > pole fashion. You may have to experement to get the thickness right. When > it's right you can "screw" the motor into the mount. It won't pull > straight out but it will simply unscrew opposite way it went > in........Mark > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Berfield" > To: "'RocketsNW'" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:06 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart > > >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to >> skip >> putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and >> sort >> of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). >> >> >> >> Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go >> now >> that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar >> situations? >> >> >> >> Scott >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From k2tsai at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 16:09:02 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:09:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E82231@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <66D9ABACB55740B489D64A69F37F15E5@Desktop> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E82231@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <7816cff1003241609i40649595pf5e3b6c0a0e5c4fc@mail.gmail.com> Don't know if cherne grippers come in 29mm. For those not familiar with them (I had to look it up myself), the cherne gripper is used by plumbers to test pipe pressure by sealing off a section of pipe. It's a twist lock type mechanism where the twisting action expands the diameter of the plug much like a collet or jacobs chuck for a drill. Here's a thread from Rocketry Planet of the cherne gripper being used for foward retention in a 38mm airframe. - http://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3501 Cheers, - Ken On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Krausert, Robert wrote: > For me, I'm trying something new this year. > > Using a forward retention technique. I drilled a hole in my boosters bulk plate just below the U-bolt for my recovery harness. I wrap Kevlar pull tape around that inset groove of the motors forward closure. Then secure it with a hose clamp. Then to install the motor, I'm going to run a solid wire down through the bulk plate and out the aft end. Attach the pull tape and pull it up through the hole. Install the motor and pull the Kevlar tight, and secure it to the u-bolt. Since I don't use motor deploy, this seems to work. > > Couple lessons as I created this. Avoid the hose clamp creating a shear point of the Kevlar. I tied a standard knot at the end and wrapped several times in that inset section of the forward closure. And make sure the Kevlar comes out inside on the forward side. If you exit on the aft side of the hose clamp, I see the clamp as a shear potential. > > We'll see how it works. And if the FSO approves. For now, it looks very good and should be safe. Just need to be strong enough for the weight of the motor case and motor resin during the point when the recovery gear extends and stops. Lot of forces at that moment. But it looks like it should hold just fine. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Dunkle > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:15 PM > To: rockets NW list > Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Dunkle" > To: "Scott Berfield" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart > > >> ? ? ? Use masking or the blue tape. Wind it on the motor tube in a barbur >> pole fashion. You may have to experement to get the thickness right. When >> it's right you can "screw" the motor into the mount. It won't pull >> straight out but it will simply unscrew opposite way it went >> in........Mark >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott Berfield" >> To: "'RocketsNW'" >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:06 AM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to >>> skip >>> putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and >>> sort >>> of forgot until it was too late to do ?it that way). >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go >>> now >>> that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar >>> situations? >>> >>> >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From sb at berfield.com Wed Mar 24 16:28:05 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:28:05 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart Message-ID: That's a really clever thing. Wouldn't work for this case. but for larger setups with plugged forward closures, it is a really neat/simple idea. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Tsai [mailto:k2tsai at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 04:09 PM To: 'Krausert, Robert' Cc: 'rockets NW list' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart Don't know if cherne grippers come in 29mm. For those not familiar with them (I had to look it up myself), the cherne gripper is used by plumbers to test pipe pressure by sealing off a section of pipe. It's a twist lock type mechanism where the twisting action expands the diameter of the plug much like a collet or jacobs chuck for a drill. Here's a thread from Rocketry Planet of the cherne gripper being used for foward retention in a 38mm airframe. - http://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3501 Cheers, - Ken On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Krausert, Robert wrote: > For me, I'm trying something new this year. > > Using a forward retention technique. I drilled a hole in my boosters bulk plate just below the U-bolt for my recovery harness. I wrap Kevlar pull tape around that inset groove of the motors forward closure. Then secure it with a hose clamp. Then to install the motor, I'm going to run a solid wire down through the bulk plate and out the aft end. Attach the pull tape and pull it up through the hole. Install the motor and pull the Kevlar tight, and secure it to the u-bolt. Since I don't use motor deploy, this seems to work. > > Couple lessons as I created this. Avoid the hose clamp creating a shear point of the Kevlar. I tied a standard knot at the end and wrapped several times in that inset section of the forward closure. And make sure the Kevlar comes out inside on the forward side. If you exit on the aft side of the hose clamp, I see the clamp as a shear potential. > > We'll see how it works. And if the FSO approves. For now, it looks very good and should be safe. Just need to be strong enough for the weight of the motor case and motor resin during the point when the recovery gear extends and stops. Lot of forces at that moment. But it looks like it should hold just fine. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Dunkle > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:15 PM > To: rockets NW list > Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Dunkle" > To: "Scott Berfield" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart > > >> Use masking or the blue tape. Wind it on the motor tube in a barbur >> pole fashion. You may have to experement to get the thickness right. When >> it's right you can "screw" the motor into the mount. It won't pull >> straight out but it will simply unscrew opposite way it went >> in........Mark >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott Berfield" >> To: "'RocketsNW'" >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:06 AM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to >>> skip >>> putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and >>> sort >>> of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go >>> now >>> that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar >>> situations? >>> >>> >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Wed Mar 24 18:05:50 2010 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:05:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E82231@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <66D9ABACB55740B489D64A69F37F15E5@Desktop> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E82231@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <00b501cacbb7$50482700$f0d87500$@net> A couple of wraps with filament strapping tape could replace the hose clamp at smaller size and less chance of cutting the Kevlar on the edge of the clamp. I use it to hold batteries in place since it is far stronger than most other tapes. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:44 PM To: Mark Dunkle; rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart For me, I'm trying something new this year. Using a forward retention technique. I drilled a hole in my boosters bulk plate just below the U-bolt for my recovery harness. I wrap Kevlar pull tape around that inset groove of the motors forward closure. Then secure it with a hose clamp. Then to install the motor, I'm going to run a solid wire down through the bulk plate and out the aft end. Attach the pull tape and pull it up through the hole. Install the motor and pull the Kevlar tight, and secure it to the u-bolt. Since I don't use motor deploy, this seems to work. Couple lessons as I created this. Avoid the hose clamp creating a shear point of the Kevlar. I tied a standard knot at the end and wrapped several times in that inset section of the forward closure. And make sure the Kevlar comes out inside on the forward side. If you exit on the aft side of the hose clamp, I see the clamp as a shear potential. We'll see how it works. And if the FSO approves. For now, it looks very good and should be safe. Just need to be strong enough for the weight of the motor case and motor resin during the point when the recovery gear extends and stops. Lot of forces at that moment. But it looks like it should hold just fine. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Dunkle Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:15 PM To: rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Dunkle" To: "Scott Berfield" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart > Use masking or the blue tape. Wind it on the motor tube in a barbur > pole fashion. You may have to experement to get the thickness right. When > it's right you can "screw" the motor into the mount. It won't pull > straight out but it will simply unscrew opposite way it went > in........Mark > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Berfield" > To: "'RocketsNW'" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:06 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart > > >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to >> skip >> putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and >> sort >> of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). >> >> >> >> Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go >> now >> that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar >> situations? >> >> >> >> Scott >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 18:22:22 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:22:22 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart References: <66D9ABACB55740B489D64A69F37F15E5@Desktop><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E82231@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <00b501cacbb7$50482700$f0d87500$@net> Message-ID: <821B1DED313449B0923291F6DD018015@LaptopKrausert> Nice! Thank you. Consider heatshrink tube. But worried that there's still some (minor) elastictivity. Filament tape might work. Might be lighter than a hose clamp. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty Weiser" To: "'Krausert, Robert'" ; "'Mark Dunkle'" ; "'rockets NW list'" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart >A couple of wraps with filament strapping tape could replace the hose clamp > at smaller size and less chance of cutting the Kevlar on the edge of the > clamp. I use it to hold batteries in place since it is far stronger than > most other tapes. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:44 PM > To: Mark Dunkle; rockets NW list > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart > > For me, I'm trying something new this year. > > Using a forward retention technique. I drilled a hole in my boosters bulk > plate just below the U-bolt for my recovery harness. I wrap Kevlar pull > tape > around that inset groove of the motors forward closure. Then secure it > with > a hose clamp. Then to install the motor, I'm going to run a solid wire > down > through the bulk plate and out the aft end. Attach the pull tape and pull > it > up through the hole. Install the motor and pull the Kevlar tight, and > secure > it to the u-bolt. Since I don't use motor deploy, this seems to work. > > Couple lessons as I created this. Avoid the hose clamp creating a shear > point of the Kevlar. I tied a standard knot at the end and wrapped several > times in that inset section of the forward closure. And make sure the > Kevlar > comes out inside on the forward side. If you exit on the aft side of the > hose clamp, I see the clamp as a shear potential. > > We'll see how it works. And if the FSO approves. For now, it looks very > good > and should be safe. Just need to be strong enough for the weight of the > motor case and motor resin during the point when the recovery gear extends > and stops. Lot of forces at that moment. But it looks like it should hold > just fine. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Mark Dunkle > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:15 PM > To: rockets NW list > Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Dunkle" > To: "Scott Berfield" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart > > >> Use masking or the blue tape. Wind it on the motor tube in a barbur >> pole fashion. You may have to experement to get the thickness right. When >> it's right you can "screw" the motor into the mount. It won't pull >> straight out but it will simply unscrew opposite way it went >> in........Mark >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott Berfield" >> To: "'RocketsNW'" >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:06 AM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to >>> skip >>> putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and >>> sort >>> of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go >>> now >>> that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar >>> situations? >>> >>> >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From hmpalotakdz6 at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 18:27:22 2010 From: hmpalotakdz6 at gmail.com (JUSTYN PALMER) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:27:22 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tripoli Idaho News -- Possible vendor at SpudRoc -- needs pre-orders In-Reply-To: <004201caca4b$83098e80$0400a8c0@MainPC> References: <004201caca4b$83098e80$0400a8c0@MainPC> Message-ID: Kosdon TRM motors will also be at Spud-ROC & other Idaho & Oregon launches. we currently have motors from 29mm G/H up to 75mm L & some of everything in between. if you are looking for something specific let us know & we will see about ordering it. all reloads will be 10% off if you buy 2 or more-any sizes.15% off for casing & 1 reload... 20% off if you buy both the casing & 2 reloads!!! some sizes (38 & 54mm) can get up to 25% off w/hardware & multiple reloads-just ask for details. i'm not planning on taking payment until we are in the field, just need to know what motors people are interested in so i can place an order soon to get it by April 2. call 850.603.0748 if you have any questions as email doesn't get checked everyday. if you know what you want just send me emails in the next couple days so i can get everything together? thanks, Justyn & Candice ps-is anybody trying cert. flights early in the season? automatic 20%+ discount on cert. motor & free casing rental. if anybody is planning on L3 flights please let me know so i can order the M hardware & some propellant :-) On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > Hello Tripoli Idaho Members, > > I am passing along an email from Bill Munds and Dave Woodard from Puget > Sound Propulsion (PSP). > Bill and Dave are considering attending SpudRoc as a vendor. PSP sells > motors, cases, kits and > other items. They attend all the launches in Washington. Here is a link > to their website: > http://www.pugetsoundpropulsion.com/ > > Bill says they need a fairly large pre-order to justify a trip to Idaho. > He also says all orders > must be placed by the end of March. Unfortunately, that does not leave > much time. If you are > interested, you will need to hurry. > > If there are not enough pre-orders, then PSP may still find a why to get > the stuff here or failing > that, they will give it to me at the FITS launch in Washington and I will > transport it back to > Idaho. However, the FITS launch is after SpudRoc so keep that in mind. > > At any rate, look over the email below and if you are interested contact > PSP directly. I am not > coordinating the order, I am just passing along the offer in his email. > > Here is Bill Munds contact info: > Email: appusher at q.com > Phone: 206.335.0196 > > > Don't forget, our first launch is rapidly approaching. April 3! I'll send > out more info as we get > closer. > > Vern Knowles > www.tripoliidaho.org > > > > *********************************************** > From: customer-service at pugetsoundpropulsion.com > Subject: Sale > *********************************************** > > Hi Vern, > > Time to restock AP for a great flying season. With a big enough club order > we will have to make a > trip over or club delivery to you at FITS. > > We are pulling an order together for April and May launches. I wanted to > include you in our > initial offer. > Here is the scoop basics: > > Aerotech 18mm, 24mm, 29/40-120 reloads > Aerotech reloads HPR "H" and above > Rouse-tech hardware > > Here's the real details: > > 1) Orders have to be in by the end of March. > 2) Orders need to be pre-paid by the end of the sale. > 3) We will accept credit cards or PayPal. > > ********* > Orders of Aerotech hobby reloads order amounts and discounts that apply > Orders $250 or less get 10% off retail > Orders $250 or more get 20% off retail > > Orders of Aerotech HPR reloads order amounts and discounts > Orders up to $200 retail get 10% off retail > Orders over $400 retail get 15% off retail > Orders over $1000 retail get 20% off retail > Orders $2000 or more contact us for more details > > Orders for Rouse-tech hardware are as follows > over $100 get 10% off retail > over $200 get 15% off retail > over $400 get 20% off retail > over $1000 contact us for more details > > Orders submitted by the end of the sale will be filled out of stock > immediately. What needs to be > ordered will be filled for the launch directly following our receipt from > the supplier. > > As it gets closer to the the close of the sale I will have a better idea of > definate delivery > dates. > > Thanks, > > Dave and Bill > www.PugetSoundPropulsion.com > > > > From greg at bigredbee.com Wed Mar 24 18:28:54 2010 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:28:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart In-Reply-To: <821B1DED313449B0923291F6DD018015@LaptopKrausert> References: <66D9ABACB55740B489D64A69F37F15E5@Desktop> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E82231@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <00b501cacbb7$50482700$f0d87500$@net> <821B1DED313449B0923291F6DD018015@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: I just use tape when I don't have a threaded forward closure -- sometimes I add aluminum tape on the aft end, folded back onto the after closure The tape works so well, that I often have real trouble getting it out. -- Greg On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Nice! Thank you. Consider heatshrink tube. But worried that there's still > some (minor) elastictivity. Filament tape might work. Might be lighter than > a hose clamp. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty Weiser" > > To: "'Krausert, Robert'" ; "'Mark Dunkle'" < > Dunkman2000 at comcast.net>; "'rockets NW list'" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart > > > A couple of wraps with filament strapping tape could replace the hose >> clamp >> at smaller size and less chance of cutting the Kevlar on the edge of the >> clamp. I use it to hold batteries in place since it is far stronger than >> most other tapes. >> >> Marty >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:44 PM >> To: Mark Dunkle; rockets NW list >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart >> >> For me, I'm trying something new this year. >> >> Using a forward retention technique. I drilled a hole in my boosters bulk >> plate just below the U-bolt for my recovery harness. I wrap Kevlar pull >> tape >> around that inset groove of the motors forward closure. Then secure it >> with >> a hose clamp. Then to install the motor, I'm going to run a solid wire >> down >> through the bulk plate and out the aft end. Attach the pull tape and pull >> it >> up through the hole. Install the motor and pull the Kevlar tight, and >> secure >> it to the u-bolt. Since I don't use motor deploy, this seems to work. >> >> Couple lessons as I created this. Avoid the hose clamp creating a shear >> point of the Kevlar. I tied a standard knot at the end and wrapped several >> times in that inset section of the forward closure. And make sure the >> Kevlar >> comes out inside on the forward side. If you exit on the aft side of the >> hose clamp, I see the clamp as a shear potential. >> >> We'll see how it works. And if the FSO approves. For now, it looks very >> good >> and should be safe. Just need to be strong enough for the weight of the >> motor case and motor resin during the point when the recovery gear extends >> and stops. Lot of forces at that moment. But it looks like it should hold >> just fine. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Mark Dunkle >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:15 PM >> To: rockets NW list >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Dunkle" > > >> To: "Scott Berfield" >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart >> >> >> Use masking or the blue tape. Wind it on the motor tube in a barbur >>> pole fashion. You may have to experement to get the thickness right. When >>> it's right you can "screw" the motor into the mount. It won't pull >>> straight out but it will simply unscrew opposite way it went >>> in........Mark >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" >>> To: "'RocketsNW'" >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:06 AM >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to >>>> skip >>>> putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and >>>> sort >>>> of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go >>>> now >>>> that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar >>>> situations? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Wed Mar 24 18:33:08 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:33:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Sunriver Mansfield Update- Wednesday Message-ID: Greetings all, So, here is a update from Sunriver....... We will be coming to Mansfield, and arriving either late on Friday evening or early Saturday morning. We will be leaving on Saturday afternoon, between 1-3 depending how busy we are We did get a shipment from Aerotech, but we know our CTI order will not be here by Friday, but we have a few 29-54mm reloads that we will bring. IF you want us to bring something besides high power motor reloads, let me know. I can't bring everything, so let me know I will bring low power Estes stuff if you let me know, and also E-G Aerotech motors and reloads. PLEASE let me know. I will bring a few kits, parachutes, nomex blankets, Does anyone want me to bring LOKI reloads? So let me know if you need anything...... Look forward to seeing you there......... Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From joebevier at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 18:43:15 2010 From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:43:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart In-Reply-To: <821B1DED313449B0923291F6DD018015@LaptopKrausert> References: <66D9ABACB55740B489D64A69F37F15E5@Desktop> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E82231@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <00b501cacbb7$50482700$f0d87500$@net> <821B1DED313449B0923291F6DD018015@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <45717541003241843p6a89e695qf4c582fe8902f57b@mail.gmail.com> Danger Will Robinson! Danger! Said with arms flailing like Robbie the robot (if you're old enough to remember Lost in Space). Heat shrink tubing on the forward closure will soften with the heat of the motor compromising the retention when you need it most. ;-) On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Nice! Thank you. Consider heatshrink tube. But worried that there's still > some (minor) elastictivity. Filament tape might work. Might be lighter than > a hose clamp. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty Weiser" > > To: "'Krausert, Robert'" ; "'Mark Dunkle'" < > Dunkman2000 at comcast.net>; "'rockets NW list'" > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart > > > A couple of wraps with filament strapping tape could replace the hose >> clamp >> at smaller size and less chance of cutting the Kevlar on the edge of the >> clamp. I use it to hold batteries in place since it is far stronger than >> most other tapes. >> >> Marty >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:44 PM >> To: Mark Dunkle; rockets NW list >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart >> >> For me, I'm trying something new this year. >> >> Using a forward retention technique. I drilled a hole in my boosters bulk >> plate just below the U-bolt for my recovery harness. I wrap Kevlar pull >> tape >> around that inset groove of the motors forward closure. Then secure it >> with >> a hose clamp. Then to install the motor, I'm going to run a solid wire >> down >> through the bulk plate and out the aft end. Attach the pull tape and pull >> it >> up through the hole. Install the motor and pull the Kevlar tight, and >> secure >> it to the u-bolt. Since I don't use motor deploy, this seems to work. >> >> Couple lessons as I created this. Avoid the hose clamp creating a shear >> point of the Kevlar. I tied a standard knot at the end and wrapped several >> times in that inset section of the forward closure. And make sure the >> Kevlar >> comes out inside on the forward side. If you exit on the aft side of the >> hose clamp, I see the clamp as a shear potential. >> >> We'll see how it works. And if the FSO approves. For now, it looks very >> good >> and should be safe. Just need to be strong enough for the weight of the >> motor case and motor resin during the point when the recovery gear extends >> and stops. Lot of forces at that moment. But it looks like it should hold >> just fine. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Mark Dunkle >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:15 PM >> To: rockets NW list >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: motor retension in a tiny dart >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Dunkle" > > >> To: "Scott Berfield" >> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart >> >> >> Use masking or the blue tape. Wind it on the motor tube in a barbur >>> pole fashion. You may have to experement to get the thickness right. When >>> it's right you can "screw" the motor into the mount. It won't pull >>> straight out but it will simply unscrew opposite way it went >>> in........Mark >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" >>> To: "'RocketsNW'" >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:06 AM >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] motor retension in a tiny dart >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Just built a Wildman 29mm minimum diameter carbon dart and decided to >>>> skip >>>> putting in mechanical motor retention (actually had a plan to do so and >>>> sort >>>> of forgot until it was too late to do it that way). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyway, since it looks like taping the motor in place is the way to go >>>> now >>>> that it is built, what techniques/materials do you guys use for similar >>>> situations? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Wed Mar 24 22:17:14 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 22:17:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes In-Reply-To: References: <032320100413.24053.4BA83FF1000B356C00005DF522230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>, <789106.81541.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: I have had multiple transavtions with the seller linked below and have been very happy with his proactive communication and fast shipping -brad > From: worthenc at msn.com > To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com; larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com > Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:34:30 -0600 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > > Here is a possible source from eBay for the military 'chutes; > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-5-36-Inch-Parachutes-for-mid-high-power-rockets_W0QQitemZ400110390235QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d28700bdb > > J C Worthen > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Colvin > To: t.j.doll at att.net ; Rocket Lost > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:59 AM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > > > Tim, > > Have you looked at those 36" military surplus chutes? You could buy those for $5 or so a while back, and they weigh almost nothing. Put two of them in a rocket if 36" is too small, and if you can still find them. > > Larry > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "t.j.doll at att.net" > > To: Rocket Lost > > Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 9:13:37 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Lightweight Parachutes > > OK, for NARAM Giant Sport Scale I'm working on a 1/24 scale Mercury Atlas. But weight is a challange - I need to be below 1500 grams at launch (predicting 3.5 pounds, so I need to loose several ounces) , so I'm looking to save weight any way I can. I need a pretty good sized parachute for a 1.5 kilo rocket, and big parachutes can be heavy. > > So, where can I find the lightest parachute? In my experience, Aerotech 'chutes are the lightest for size (although they only go up to 42" - marginal for a 1.5 kg rocket). Anyone know of a good source for ~50" lightweight parachutes? > > TIA > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From davewalp at comcast.net Thu Mar 25 07:59:09 2010 From: davewalp at comcast.net (David Walp) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 07:59:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CA and Kevlar? Message-ID: <000f01cacc2b$b97c46b0$2c74d410$@net> Hi, Can any of you explain what happens when CA & Kevlar interact? A couple time I have seen "smoke" and smelled something caustic. thanks, _dave_ From davewalp at comcast.net Thu Mar 25 08:05:56 2010 From: davewalp at comcast.net (David Walp) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:05:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Message-ID: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net> Hi, Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect Flight 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But none of our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any good ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section or ebay? thanks, _dave_ From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Thu Mar 25 08:22:33 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:22:33 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay In-Reply-To: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net> References: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0E@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> You can't just throw it into the airframe or tape it to your shock cord because the pressure from the hot (not to mention corrosive) ejection gasses will fry your altimeter. It needs to be protected. Cut the nosecone to open up the inside for an e-bay. Drill a couple holes through the nosecone above the airframe join to act as vent holes for the altimeter. You can then cut a piece of light ply to seal the nosecone and act as an attachment point and screw it into place through the n/c shoulder (be sure to use flat-head screws and countersink them so that you maintain good fitment between n/c and airframe). It's a royal pain, but it puts the altimeter out of harm's way. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:06 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Hi, Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect Flight 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But none of our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any good ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section or ebay? thanks, _dave_ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From glech at aol.com Thu Mar 25 08:34:52 2010 From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:34:52 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0E@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0E@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <8CC9A47D8A781C3-1F7C-416D@webmail-d006.sysops.aol.com> I've been pondering the very same thing for the mile high contest. Any chance you can post/send a pic of your NC retrofit so that I can understand it a little better. What is "light ply", plywood perhaps? Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Schurke, Peter To: David Walp ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Mar 25, 2010 8:22 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay You can't just throw it into the airframe or tape it to your shock cord because the pressure from the hot (not to mention corrosive) ejection gasses will fry your altimeter. It needs to be protected. Cut the nosecone to open up the inside for an e-bay. Drill a couple holes through the nosecone above the airframe join to act as vent holes for the altimeter. You can then cut a piece of light ply to seal the nosecone and act as an attachment point and screw it into place through the n/c shoulder (be sure to use flat-head screws and countersink them so that you maintain good fitment between n/c and airframe). It's a royal pain, but it puts the altimeter out of harm's way. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:06 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Hi, Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect Flight 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But none of our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any good ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section or ebay? thanks, _dave_ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From daron at daronjohnson.com Thu Mar 25 08:40:47 2010 From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:40:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [personal] Re: Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay In-Reply-To: <8CC9A47D8A781C3-1F7C-416D@webmail-d006.sysops.aol.com> References: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0E@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <8CC9A47D8A781C3-1F7C-416D@webmail-d006.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002c01cacc31$8bbb9270$a332b750$@daronjohnson.com> Attached is an example of a nosecone mod I did so I could put a Beeline in it. Not pretty but works fine. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gary Lech Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:35 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [personal] Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay I've been pondering the very same thing for the mile high contest. Any chance you can post/send a pic of your NC retrofit so that I can understand it a little better. What is "light ply", plywood perhaps? Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Schurke, Peter To: David Walp ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Mar 25, 2010 8:22 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay You can't just throw it into the airframe or tape it to your shock cord because the pressure from the hot (not to mention corrosive) ejection gasses will fry your altimeter. It needs to be protected. Cut the nosecone to open up the inside for an e-bay. Drill a couple holes through the nosecone above the airframe join to act as vent holes for the altimeter. You can then cut a piece of light ply to seal the nosecone and act as an attachment point and screw it into place through the n/c shoulder (be sure to use flat-head screws and countersink them so that you maintain good fitment between n/c and airframe). It's a royal pain, but it puts the altimeter out of harm's way. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:06 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Hi, Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect Flight 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But none of our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any good ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section or ebay? thanks, _dave_ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Thu Mar 25 08:47:33 2010 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:47:33 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... In-Reply-To: <006801cabfa9$cb72d840$625888c0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> References: <006801cabfa9$cb72d840$625888c0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: <005601cacc32$7cf0afe0$76d20fa0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Adding a new link to this thread. On the website below you will not find any pictures of the trip to Huntsville. But you will here: http://rocketman42.com/Hobbies/Skyline-SLI-2005/11613732_eazT3#818737693_D5f YV They are in "date taken" order but may seem out of order because multiple cameras were used and the time was off by a few hours between them J There are 901 pictures, so can get a bit boring after awhile :-) But you can view them a page (16 on a page) at a time and then select the ones that you have an interest in. These pics include some of the construction (beginning), the trip to and from Huntsville, the flight (page 28) and a few other flights and the activities enjoyed while there. Which included a trip to the Marshall Space Flight Center (page 6) and the ISS Payload Ops Center (page 12). One treat for the team was being able to meet and get showed around the museum by Konrad Dannenberg (page 49). He was one of the scientists on von Braun 's team at Peenemunde and part of Operation Paperclip , and is now deceased. If you like rockets (and we all do here) there are many great pics to see. Enjoy! Don't miss these: 1. Page 18, #57 2. Page 49, # 779 3. "THAAD" page 55, #867 Michael -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dennis Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:59 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Cc: 'Fowler, Rebecca SHS Staff' Subject: [RocketsNW] 2004-05 Skyline HS - SLI info and website... Since there has been a lot of discussion lately on Ingraham HS participating in the SLI this year, I thought I'd send out this link again that details all about what the Skyline HS SLI team did for the 2004-05 SLI. http://skylinesli.agrummer.com Not only did they do a great job on the rocket, but the website was pretty amazing too. They had a very successful flight in Huntsville on an CTI-L800. Their rocket is still in the Physics Lab at Skyline HS. That seems to encourage others to participate in TARC. If you dig through the website, you'll find many goodies. Details behind their experiment and the rocket, as well as great pics and videos. Don't miss the parachute "ground" test video! And on the main page the video of the trip to Hunstville. Of particular note is that the about 10' rocket was packed into a 3x2x1.5' box for transporting to Hunstville. Good luck Ingraham HS team, and have fun, Michael _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From daron at daronjohnson.com Thu Mar 25 08:53:24 2010 From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:53:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [personal] Re: Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay In-Reply-To: <002c01cacc31$8bbb9270$a332b750$@daronjohnson.com> References: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0E@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <8CC9A47D8A781C3-1F7C-416D@webmail-d006.sysops.aol.com> <002c01cacc31$8bbb9270$a332b750$@daronjohnson.com> Message-ID: <003601cacc33$4f3433a0$ed9c9ae0$@daronjohnson.com> Well that did not work, so here is a link http://www.daronjohnson.com/miscellaneous/nosecone_mod.jpg -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Daron Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:41 AM To: 'Gary Lech'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [personal] Re: Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Attached is an example of a nosecone mod I did so I could put a Beeline in it. Not pretty but works fine. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gary Lech Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:35 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [personal] Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay I've been pondering the very same thing for the mile high contest. Any chance you can post/send a pic of your NC retrofit so that I can understand it a little better. What is "light ply", plywood perhaps? Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Schurke, Peter To: David Walp ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Mar 25, 2010 8:22 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay You can't just throw it into the airframe or tape it to your shock cord because the pressure from the hot (not to mention corrosive) ejection gasses will fry your altimeter. It needs to be protected. Cut the nosecone to open up the inside for an e-bay. Drill a couple holes through the nosecone above the airframe join to act as vent holes for the altimeter. You can then cut a piece of light ply to seal the nosecone and act as an attachment point and screw it into place through the n/c shoulder (be sure to use flat-head screws and countersink them so that you maintain good fitment between n/c and airframe). It's a royal pain, but it puts the altimeter out of harm's way. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:06 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Hi, Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect Flight 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But none of our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any good ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section or ebay? thanks, _dave_ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Thu Mar 25 08:57:20 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:57:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay In-Reply-To: <8CC9A47D8A781C3-1F7C-416D@webmail-d006.sysops.aol.com> References: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0E@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <8CC9A47D8A781C3-1F7C-416D@webmail-d006.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0F@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Sorry...when I say "light ply" to my students they know I mean Light Plywood. My students have a tendency to build their vehicles like Abrams Tanks, then put a bigger motor in it...so they deal with Light Plywood because they don't care about the weight. If mass is a problem, get a block of Balsa and shave down the corners until it fits to plug the open end of the N/C and screw in from the sides the same way. Daron Johnson posted a link to a pic of his solution to the same problem. Probably a little more elegant and a little less brutish than our method. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gary Lech Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:35 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay I've been pondering the very same thing for the mile high contest. Any chance you can post/send a pic of your NC retrofit so that I can understand it a little better. What is "light ply", plywood perhaps? Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 -----Original Message----- From: Schurke, Peter To: David Walp ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Mar 25, 2010 8:22 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay You can't just throw it into the airframe or tape it to your shock cord because the pressure from the hot (not to mention corrosive) ejection gasses will fry your altimeter. It needs to be protected. Cut the nosecone to open up the inside for an e-bay. Drill a couple holes through the nosecone above the airframe join to act as vent holes for the altimeter. You can then cut a piece of light ply to seal the nosecone and act as an attachment point and screw it into place through the n/c shoulder (be sure to use flat-head screws and countersink them so that you maintain good fitment between n/c and airframe). It's a royal pain, but it puts the altimeter out of harm's way. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:06 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Hi, Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect Flight 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But none of our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any good ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section or ebay? thanks, _dave_ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From stevet19759 at comcast.net Thu Mar 25 09:26:32 2010 From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:26:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0F@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0E@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <8CC9A47D8A781C3-1F7C-416D@webmail-d006.sysops.aol.com> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0F@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <4BAB8EB8.6010601@comcast.net> I have a similar approach, although I'm putting a Beeline tracking transmitter in the nose instead of an altimeter. I wedge the transmitter into the nose cone with a tightly folded piece of foam (the pink closed-cell polyethylene stuff, not styrofoam or foam rubber) and then seal the hole with aluminum tape. That's enough to hold the transmitter in place and protect against ejection gasses. For larger nose cones, I tape the transmitter to a length of dowel or popsicle stick so the antenna wire doesn't get bent. And the stick makes it easier to get the transmitter back out after the flight so I can turn it off. -Steve Schurke, Peter wrote: > Sorry...when I say "light ply" to my students they know I mean Light > Plywood. > > My students have a tendency to build their vehicles like Abrams Tanks, > then put a bigger motor in it...so they deal with Light Plywood because > they don't care about the weight. > > If mass is a problem, get a block of Balsa and shave down the corners > until it fits to plug the open end of the N/C and screw in from the > sides the same way. > > Daron Johnson posted a link to a pic of his solution to the same > problem. Probably a little more elegant and a little less brutish than > our method. > > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St > Seattle, WA 98133 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gary Lech > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:35 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay > > > I've been pondering the very same thing for the mile high contest. Any > chance you can post/send a pic of your NC retrofit so that I can > understand it a little better. > > What is "light ply", plywood perhaps? > > > > > Cheers from ~ > Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Schurke, Peter > To: David Walp ; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Thu, Mar 25, 2010 8:22 am > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay > > > > You can't just throw it into the airframe or tape it to your shock cord > because the pressure from the hot (not to mention corrosive) ejection > gasses will fry your altimeter. It needs to be protected. > > Cut the nosecone to open up the inside for an e-bay. Drill a couple > holes through the nosecone above the airframe join to act as vent holes > for the altimeter. You can then cut a piece of light ply to seal the > nosecone and act as an attachment point and screw it into place through > the n/c shoulder (be sure to use flat-head screws and countersink them > so that you maintain good fitment between n/c and airframe). > > It's a royal pain, but it puts the altimeter out of harm's way. > > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St > Seattle, WA 98133 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:06 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay > > Hi, > > > > Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect > Flight > 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But > none of > our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any > good > ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section > or ebay? > > > > thanks, > > _dave_ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu Mar 25 09:30:39 2010 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:30:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0E@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE0E@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <4BAB8FAF.8020501@hawkfeather.com> If it's a barometric altimeter, and depending on NC/BT configuration, speed, etc, vents in the NC can give very unpredictable results due to varying pressure. General recommendation is to have altimeter vents well back from any NC turbulence, and well before the fins. Andrew. Schurke, Peter wrote: > You can't just throw it into the airframe or tape it to your shock cord > because the pressure from the hot (not to mention corrosive) ejection > gasses will fry your altimeter. It needs to be protected. > > Cut the nosecone to open up the inside for an e-bay. Drill a couple > holes through the nosecone above the airframe join to act as vent holes > for the altimeter. You can then cut a piece of light ply to seal the > nosecone and act as an attachment point and screw it into place through > the n/c shoulder (be sure to use flat-head screws and countersink them > so that you maintain good fitment between n/c and airframe). > > It's a royal pain, but it puts the altimeter out of harm's way. > > > Peter Schurke > Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > 1819 N 135th St > Seattle, WA 98133 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:06 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay > > Hi, > > > > Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect > Flight > 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But > none of > our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any > good > ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section > or ebay? > > > > thanks, > > _dave_ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From sb at berfield.com Thu Mar 25 12:13:21 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 12:13:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] looks like i am coming out Saturday Message-ID: <007501cacc4f$3c614210$b523c630$@com> See you guys in Mansfield. I am driving out Sat. AM so probably won't be there until 10:30 or so. Not sure if I am staying over or not. May bring a couple of little guys to fly, but mostly coming to observe and take pics. Scott From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 25 13:04:23 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Message-ID: <4228270.1269547463928.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> For recording only the placement isn't as critical - you'll still get accurate apogee data - for a deployment duty altimeters - you are absolutely correct that under ascent you may get some quirky response that could cause a false trigger. /Steve -----Original Message----- >From: Andrew MacMillen >Sent: Mar 25, 2010 12:30 PM >To: >Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay > >If it's a barometric altimeter, and depending on NC/BT configuration, >speed, etc, vents in the NC can give very unpredictable results due to >varying pressure. > >General recommendation is to have altimeter vents well back from any NC >turbulence, and well before the fins. > >Andrew. > >Schurke, Peter wrote: >> You can't just throw it into the airframe or tape it to your shock cord >> because the pressure from the hot (not to mention corrosive) ejection >> gasses will fry your altimeter. It needs to be protected. >> >> Cut the nosecone to open up the inside for an e-bay. Drill a couple >> holes through the nosecone above the airframe join to act as vent holes >> for the altimeter. You can then cut a piece of light ply to seal the >> nosecone and act as an attachment point and screw it into place through >> the n/c shoulder (be sure to use flat-head screws and countersink them >> so that you maintain good fitment between n/c and airframe). >> >> It's a royal pain, but it puts the altimeter out of harm's way. >> >> >> Peter Schurke >> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor >> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy >> Ingraham High School >> 1819 N 135th St >> Seattle, WA 98133 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp >> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:06 AM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect >> Flight >> 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But >> none of >> our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any >> good >> ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section >> or ebay? >> >> >> >> thanks, >> >> _dave_ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Thu Mar 25 15:22:23 2010 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:22:23 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] CA and Kevlar? Message-ID: <7df6f.47336fe7.38dd3c1f@aol.com> The interaction is the instant bonding of all the fibers. The smoke is caused by the quick cure which lets off quite a bit of heat. The higher the surface area the more heat. It will do the same thing on tubular nylon as well as paper airframes. At least that's my laymen's understanding of it. :) Don't forget to take out your contact lenses before using CA. Mike F. In a message dated 3/25/2010 7:59:45 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, davewalp at comcast.net writes: Hi, Can any of you explain what happens when CA & Kevlar interact? A couple time I have seen "smoke" and smelled something caustic. thanks, _dave_ From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Thu Mar 25 15:28:18 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:28:18 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CA and Kevlar? In-Reply-To: <7df6f.47336fe7.38dd3c1f@aol.com> References: <7df6f.47336fe7.38dd3c1f@aol.com> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DE18@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> The curing reaction of CA with H2O is exothermic. Furthermore, CA has a tendency to make organic materials somewhat brittle. If there's one thing you don't want...it's your shock cord being melted AND brittle. **TWANG** "Why is my rocket coming down in two different directions?" That's the short version from the chemist... Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 3:22 PM To: davewalp at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CA and Kevlar? The interaction is the instant bonding of all the fibers. The smoke is caused by the quick cure which lets off quite a bit of heat. The higher the surface area the more heat. It will do the same thing on tubular nylon as well as paper airframes. At least that's my laymen's understanding of it. :) Don't forget to take out your contact lenses before using CA. Mike F. In a message dated 3/25/2010 7:59:45 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, davewalp at comcast.net writes: Hi, Can any of you explain what happens when CA & Kevlar interact? A couple time I have seen "smoke" and smelled something caustic. thanks, _dave_ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 15:39:24 2010 From: t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com (Tsolo) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:39:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter pod Message-ID: I've got a parasitic altimeter pod from Heavenly Hobby. 2 nc a piece of bt 20 and a strip of Velcro. Thats all there was no instructions. All that for $7! One could build it for less than that. Tsolo Dann "There never was a good war or a bad peace." Ben Franklin National Association Rocketry 82124 L2 Tripoli Rocketry Association 10359 L2 From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Thu Mar 25 16:40:39 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:40:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield Motor Update? Message-ID: Greetings all, Just getting loaded up, and we have to much stuff..... Anyone interested in some CTI 54mm 5G or 6G reloads? How about large Aerotech reloads, M1297, L1300, M650, and a few others??? I'll bring them if there is interest, but will leave them here if there is no interest........... Last call, we are loading up in the morning.......... Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From t.j.doll at att.net Thu Mar 25 18:55:49 2010 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 01:55:49 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Message-ID: <032620100155.28293.4BAC14250001E6BD00006E8522230703629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> I was thinking the same thing. Any curvature will result in local acceleration (lower pressure), while anything resembling a forward 'step' (the aft end of the vent at a greater diameter than the forward end) will create ram (higher pressure) - both will make the measurement less accurate. If just looking for a good idea of how high you went, or a parachute deployment, it's probably OK. But for a contest, well if I was in charge I wouldn't accept any altimeter data if the vent hole wasn't on a constant diameter section, at least one caliber aft of any non-constant diameter disruption. Tim >If it's a barometric altimeter, and depending on NC/BT configuration, >speed, etc, vents in the NC can give very unpredictable results due to >varying pressure. > >General recommendation is to have altimeter vents well back from any NC >turbulence, and well before the fins. > >Andrew. From carl at mousetrap.com Thu Mar 25 19:09:41 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:09:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace March launch: final reminder Message-ID: Executive summary: - March 27th and 28th (this weekend) - Sportsmen's Club (just west of Mansfield) - 8,000' AGL ceiling - Minimal GSE; if you need something special, bring it - Washington Aerospace membersfly free; non-members $10/family/weekend - Signed liability waiver for 2010 must be on file - Weather for Saturday looks good, Sunday looks questionable - If you have them, bring FRS radios - Questions? Send me mail or call me: 425-785-3751 Hope to see you this weekend! - Carl From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 19:25:21 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:25:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda April 1st, 2010 Message-ID: <32D395B0F8424C2E8702F798F127A2C9@LaptopKrausert> The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on April 1st, 2010. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : Welcome New Members + 7:30 : January Meeting Recap [Gouncher] 7:35 : Spring Thunder Readiness [Krausert] 7:40 : New Fence and New Rules [Krausert] 7:45 : Financial Update and Write Soon Checks [Moscoe] 7:50 : Labor Day Weekend "Hardtail X-Dream Weekend" [Krausert] (Trailer hauling, repair needs, etc) I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday April 1st at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President From tnetcenter at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 20:18:24 2010 From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:18:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay References: <001401cacc2c$ac557730$05006590$@net> Message-ID: <9F737C0188B84F9DAA52C1C0034E65F7@TNTCENTER> Add a payload bay for your altimeter. Attach the nosecone to it using screws or tape or whatever your favorite method is to keep it together. Attach the recovery harness to the bottom of the payload bay. Don't forget the vent holes if it's a barometric altimeter. Jeff Moore BORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Walp" To: Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter without a payload section or Ebay Hi, Ian, my son, and I have small data collecting only altimeter (Perfect Flight 15K) that we like to put up in couple of our mid power rockets. But none of our current mid power rockets have a payload section. Anyone got any good ideas how to "attach" an altimeter to a rocket without a payload section or ebay? thanks, _dave_ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winglee at ess.washington.edu Fri Mar 26 10:29:53 2010 From: winglee at ess.washington.edu (Robert Winglee) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:29:53 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Subject: [RocketsNW] UW Student Rocket Launches at Black Rock Nevada. Message-ID: A group of 12 undergraduate, 2 graduate students and 3 lead/staff personnel headed to the Black Rock High Desert for Spring Break to attempt launch at rocket to 20,000 ft at Mach 2 with data transmitted to the ground during the flight. The group represents an interdisciplinary effort with students from Electrical Engineering, Computer Science, Aeronautics and Astronautics, Earth and Space Sciences and Physics. The students worked through the end of Fall quarter through winter quarter to design and build the rockets, the flight control computer and develop various scientific diagnostic packages. The crew drove from Seattle and arrived at the launch site on Saturday, with the advanced crew (towing the porta-potties) having an opportunity to see Crater Lake under pristine mirror conditions, and a visit to the hot springs at Black Rock. Sunday saw the set up of the launch system and last minute debugging of flight control systems. We were only able to get off a small test rocket on Monday before strong winds shut the launch site down. Nevertheless this was an important set as gave us a chance to rigorously test a new student built wireless control fire system which would perfectly through the entire period. Congrats to Nigel Vander Houwen for his efforts in this part. Monday the clouds parted and the wind dropped and were able to launch several rockets. The first was a Level 2 certification flight of Julian Picard on a J500G on a 4in PML Endeavour Rocket. We next launched new advanced flight computers that provided telemetry data at 10 ms rate, ten times better than the previous year's system. First, flight was telemetry data only (using 900 MHZ), and second flight with onboard data storage. Both flights were on 4in rockets that went to about Mach 0.8 and 8000 ft. Our first attempt at supersonic flight was in the afternoon on a 2in minimum diameter rocket on a K550. This rocket made Mach 1.4 and about 12,000 ft above sea level and was recovered fully intact. It was then setup for launch with a K700. This rocket made Mach 1.96 (yes the students were miffed that it didn't quite make Mach 2 even though I would have conceded Mach 2) and 18,000 ft above sea level. Between the prep time for these rockets the UW group launched it s first ever hybrid rocket on a 4in rocket using a Sky Ripper K374 motor. Despite a few initial hitches it had a good boost but only the drogue shoot deployed so it a hard landing which snapped the payload section in half. We also tried a cluster motor system on a Delta IV - like system using two out broad J500 and a center K550. The uneven firing of the different motors caused the payload coupling tube to snap so the flight ended prematurely. Monday night was soooo cold that water bottles in people's tents froze solid. Nevertheless the students were gain to try to go higher and faster. The student loaded the advanced control system in a 3in carbon fiber rocket but technical hitches delayed the launch until the afternoon. In the mean time we relauched in the hybrid motor in a back up 6in rocket and got great onboard movie on the launch. Unfortunately the chute snagged the camera on the way down and we again had a hard landing that snapped the (unreinforced) body into 3 pieces this time. The students were thoughtful enough to return the rocket to me re-assembled with duct tap. Pretty sure that rocket will not fly again. Then it was time for the attempts at max speed with the 3 in carbon fiber minimum diameter on a L2200 motor. It got above Mach 1 but then disintegrated. Recovery of the bits and pieces indicated that the (plastic) nose cone collapse, sheering off which then caused the rocket to suddenly change course causing the rocket to shred. Not willing to give up the students prep the back up 3in fiberglass minimum diameter with a reinforced nose cone using spare centering rings. This rocket was launched on an L1420 motor. The telemetry shows the rocket under 22 g's of acceleration and reached a peak speed of 1.8 Mach at 2 seconds into the flight were again the rocket disintegrated. So it had the potential to exceed our goal of 20,000 ft and Mach 2. Failure was due either to the carbon fiber delaminating from the fins and/or nose cone warping - the recovered pieces showed evidence for both. We all returned back to Seattle late Wednesday night. All in all the students obtained valuable experience in moving concepts from the text book into the field, and while there were failures the group has gone higher and faster than the previous year. Special thanks to Bob Frost who helped in a lot of the RF aspects of the telemetry data, Puget Sound Propulsion in the loaning of the hybrid launch system, Mike Harrell for logistics support, the Friends of the Black Rocket Desert for assistance with local HAM radio setup and to Alex Howe our BLM ranger. *********************************************************** Prof. Robert Winglee Chair, Department of Earth and Space Sciences Director, Washington Space Grant Consortium Johnson Hall, Rm 070 Univ. of Washington Seattle WA 98195-1310 Phone: 206-685-8160 Fax : 206-543-0489 ************************************************************ From kent.newman at comcast.net Fri Mar 26 10:48:19 2010 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:48:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] UW Student Rocket Launches at Black Rock Nevada. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601cacd0c$85c9b190$915d14b0$@newman@comcast.net> Congratulations, Robert and crew!!! Your group is far hardier than I am in trekking down to BR at this time of the year. Kudos to you all for that and the valuable experience gained from your flights. Regards, Kent -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Winglee Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:30 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] UW Student Rocket Launches at Black Rock Nevada. A group of 12 undergraduate, 2 graduate students and 3 lead/staff personnel headed to the Black Rock High Desert for Spring Break to attempt launch at rocket to 20,000 ft at Mach 2 with data transmitted to the ground during the flight. The group represents an interdisciplinary effort with students from Electrical Engineering, Computer Science, Aeronautics and Astronautics, Earth and Space Sciences and Physics. The students worked through the end of Fall quarter through winter quarter to design and build the rockets, the flight control computer and develop various scientific diagnostic packages. The crew drove from Seattle and arrived at the launch site on Saturday, with the advanced crew (towing the porta-potties) having an opportunity to see Crater Lake under pristine mirror conditions, and a visit to the hot springs at Black Rock. Sunday saw the set up of the launch system and last minute debugging of flight control systems. We were only able to get off a small test rocket on Monday before strong winds shut the launch site down. Nevertheless this was an important set as gave us a chance to rigorously test a new student built wireless control fire system which would perfectly through the entire period. Congrats to Nigel Vander Houwen for his efforts in this part. Monday the clouds parted and the wind dropped and were able to launch several rockets. The first was a Level 2 certification flight of Julian Picard on a J500G on a 4in PML Endeavour Rocket. We next launched new advanced flight computers that provided telemetry data at 10 ms rate, ten times better than the previous year's system. First, flight was telemetry data only (using 900 MHZ), and second flight with onboard data storage. Both flights were on 4in rockets that went to about Mach 0.8 and 8000 ft. Our first attempt at supersonic flight was in the afternoon on a 2in minimum diameter rocket on a K550. This rocket made Mach 1.4 and about 12,000 ft above sea level and was recovered fully intact. It was then setup for launch with a K700. This rocket made Mach 1.96 (yes the students were miffed that it didn't quite make Mach 2 even though I would have conceded Mach 2) and 18,000 ft above sea level. Between the prep time for these rockets the UW group launched it s first ever hybrid rocket on a 4in rocket using a Sky Ripper K374 motor. Despite a few initial hitches it had a good boost but only the drogue shoot deployed so it a hard landing which snapped the payload section in half. We also tried a cluster motor system on a Delta IV - like system using two out broad J500 and a center K550. The uneven firing of the different motors caused the payload coupling tube to snap so the flight ended prematurely. Monday night was soooo cold that water bottles in people's tents froze solid. Nevertheless the students were gain to try to go higher and faster. The student loaded the advanced control system in a 3in carbon fiber rocket but technical hitches delayed the launch until the afternoon. In the mean time we relauched in the hybrid motor in a back up 6in rocket and got great onboard movie on the launch. Unfortunately the chute snagged the camera on the way down and we again had a hard landing that snapped the (unreinforced) body into 3 pieces this time. The students were thoughtful enough to return the rocket to me re-assembled with duct tap. Pretty sure that rocket will not fly again. Then it was time for the attempts at max speed with the 3 in carbon fiber minimum diameter on a L2200 motor. It got above Mach 1 but then disintegrated. Recovery of the bits and pieces indicated that the (plastic) nose cone collapse, sheering off which then caused the rocket to suddenly change course causing the rocket to shred. Not willing to give up the students prep the back up 3in fiberglass minimum diameter with a reinforced nose cone using spare centering rings. This rocket was launched on an L1420 motor. The telemetry shows the rocket under 22 g's of acceleration and reached a peak speed of 1.8 Mach at 2 seconds into the flight were again the rocket disintegrated. So it had the potential to exceed our goal of 20,000 ft and Mach 2. Failure was due either to the carbon fiber delaminating from the fins and/or nose cone warping - the recovered pieces showed evidence for both. We all returned back to Seattle late Wednesday night. All in all the students obtained valuable experience in moving concepts from the text book into the field, and while there were failures the group has gone higher and faster than the previous year. Special thanks to Bob Frost who helped in a lot of the RF aspects of the telemetry data, Puget Sound Propulsion in the loaning of the hybrid launch system, Mike Harrell for logistics support, the Friends of the Black Rocket Desert for assistance with local HAM radio setup and to Alex Howe our BLM ranger. *********************************************************** Prof. Robert Winglee Chair, Department of Earth and Space Sciences Director, Washington Space Grant Consortium Johnson Hall, Rm 070 Univ. of Washington Seattle WA 98195-1310 Phone: 206-685-8160 Fax : 206-543-0489 ************************************************************ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Fri Mar 26 11:03:41 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:03:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event In-Reply-To: <6654042.1269623598947.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <6654042.1269623598947.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Steve, FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... At least that is how I understand it..... Bob On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule like that. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert > Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM > To: members at oregonrocketry.org > Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? > > Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying time. > > What will the event name be? Help decide. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From robert.krausert at intel.com Fri Mar 26 11:32:05 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:32:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event In-Reply-To: References: <6654042.1269623598947.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E83095@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> That's correct. Labor day weekend. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of robert grossfeld Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 11:04 AM To: Steve Cutonilli; nwrocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event Steve, FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... At least that is how I understand it..... Bob On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule like that. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert > Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM > To: members at oregonrocketry.org > Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? > > Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying time. > > What will the event name be? Help decide. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 11:38:04 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:38:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E83095@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <6654042.1269623598947.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E83095@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: I for one can see how the mistake can be made as I often confuse those 2 hollidays myself. Now for my name suggestion How about "Shoot Out at the EX Coral"? On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Krausert, Robert < robert.krausert at intel.com> wrote: > That's correct. Labor day weekend. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of robert grossfeld > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 11:04 AM > To: Steve Cutonilli; nwrocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > Steve, > FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... > At least that is how I understand it..... > > Bob > On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that > very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule like > that. /Steve > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Krausert > > Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM > > To: members at oregonrocketry.org > > Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > > > While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative > name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? > > > > Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and > 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying > time. > > > > What will the event name be? Help decide. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > _______________________________________________ > > Members mailing list > > Members at oregonrocketry.org > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Fri Mar 26 13:48:51 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:48:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event In-Reply-To: <2347735.1269633061837.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2347735.1269633061837.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I second the name....... IF that matters................. On Mar 26, 2010, at 12:51 PM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > Dang - thanks for the correction! That's what I get for thinking about rockets on a busy work schedule. Yeah, let's try to keep the OROC event a mix of commercial days and EX days if possible. Also, I like the idea of calling this the "Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch". Head back down. /Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: robert grossfeld > Sent: Mar 26, 2010 2:03 PM > To: Steve Cutonilli , nwrocketry > Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > Steve, > FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... At least that is how I understand it..... > > Bob > On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > >> Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule like that. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert >> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM >> To: members at oregonrocketry.org >> Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >> >> While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? >> >> Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying time. >> >> What will the event name be? Help decide. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Members mailing list >> Members at oregonrocketry.org >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. > > > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Fri Mar 26 13:56:00 2010 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:56:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event In-Reply-To: References: <2347735.1269633061837.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hear Hear!!! I 2nd, 3rd and even 4th the name! Peter From: robert grossfeld To: Steve Cutonilli , nwrocketry Date: 03/26/2010 01:49 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event I second the name....... IF that matters................. On Mar 26, 2010, at 12:51 PM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > Dang - thanks for the correction! That's what I get for thinking about rockets on a busy work schedule. Yeah, let's try to keep the OROC event a mix of commercial days and EX days if possible. Also, I like the idea of calling this the "Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch". Head back down. /Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: robert grossfeld > Sent: Mar 26, 2010 2:03 PM > To: Steve Cutonilli , nwrocketry > Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > Steve, > FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... At least that is how I understand it..... > > Bob > On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > >> Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule like that. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert >> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM >> To: members at oregonrocketry.org >> Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >> >> While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? >> >> Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying time. >> >> What will the event name be? Help decide. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Members mailing list >> Members at oregonrocketry.org >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members........ > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. > > > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Fri Mar 26 13:57:17 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:57:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] What site do members use for wind forecast? Message-ID: I've been tracking wind patterns at 60 Acres and then came across a site that has done reasonably well at forecasting wind patterns. It's not a rocketry site but the primary target audience are those dependant on wind. On the down side it takes a bit to get used to the site and it requires that you have Java installed. Here's a link for 60 Acres, to use simply change the Map Time selection to the day/time that you're interested in launching a rocket. http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=119®ionProductID=3&day=0&timeoffset=21&selected_model_id= After you look at it for a minute you?ll see Lake Sammamish center right and Lake Washington to the left of Lake Sammamish. I simply extrapolate the general location of 60 Acres from there. And here's a link for Eastern Wa. http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=139®ionProductID=3&day=0&timeoffset=34&selected_model_id= After you look at it for a minute you'll see Lake Chelan just left of center and Banks Lake to the right of center - draw an imaginary line from the end of Lake Chelan to the point below the top of Banks Lake where it narrows and Mansfield is approx half way between the two lake on said imaginary line. Enjoy -brad From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 14:00:03 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:00:03 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event In-Reply-To: References: <2347735.1269633061837.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: We may want to ask the family about the use of his name before we commit to it. I personal doubt they would have an issue with it but you never know how touchy some people can be about such things. If the family gave a thumbs up on call the launch "The Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch" then I would definitely toss in my vote for it. Chris Guenther On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:48 PM, robert grossfeld < rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org> wrote: > I second the name....... IF that matters................. > > On Mar 26, 2010, at 12:51 PM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > Dang - thanks for the correction! That's what I get for thinking about > rockets on a busy work schedule. Yeah, let's try to keep the OROC event a > mix of commercial days and EX days if possible. Also, I like the idea of > calling this the "Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch". Head back down. /Steve > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: robert grossfeld > > Sent: Mar 26, 2010 2:03 PM > > To: Steve Cutonilli , nwrocketry > > Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > > > Steve, > > FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... > At least that is how I understand it..... > > > > Bob > > On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > >> Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that > very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule like > that. /Steve > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Robert Krausert > >> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM > >> To: members at oregonrocketry.org > >> Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > >> > >> While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative > name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? > >> > >> Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and > 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying > time. > >> > >> What will the event name be? Help decide. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Robert > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Members mailing list > >> Members at oregonrocketry.org > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 14:15:04 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:15:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] What site do members use for wind forecast? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: WOW Thank you Brad! I checked out the site and changed the map to see our new Tillamook launch site and our others: Willsonville, Brothers, and Sheridan here in Oregon. This is a great site and gives you an awesome time frame to look ahead. This is going to come in very handy for any future launches in the Northwest. I Bet Mr. Kruasert will be adding a link to it on the Northwest Rocketry website. Cause I can already see that with checking the site ahead of time I can judge which size drogue or streamer I should need for a close recovery on dual deployment. The applications and use for this almost endless. Again thank you for sharing the site with us. Chris Guenther On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Brad McClure wrote: > > I've been tracking wind patterns at 60 Acres and then came across a site > that has done reasonably well at forecasting wind patterns. It's not a > rocketry site but the primary target audience are those dependant on wind. > On the down side it takes a bit to get used to the site and it requires > that you have Java installed. > > > > Here's a link for 60 Acres, to use simply change the Map Time selection to > the day/time that you're interested in launching a rocket. > > > http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=119®ionProductID=3&day=0&timeoffset=21&selected_model_id= > > > > After you look at it for a minute you?ll see Lake Sammamish center right > and Lake Washington to the left of Lake Sammamish. I simply extrapolate the > general location of 60 Acres from there. > > > > And here's a link for Eastern Wa. > > > http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=139®ionProductID=3&day=0&timeoffset=34&selected_model_id= > > > > After you look at it for a minute you'll see Lake Chelan just left of > center and Banks Lake to the right of center - draw an imaginary line from > the end of Lake Chelan to the point below the top of Banks Lake where it > narrows and Mansfield is approx half way between the two lake on said > imaginary line. > > > > Enjoy > > > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From robert.krausert at intel.com Fri Mar 26 14:34:39 2010 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:34:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event In-Reply-To: References: <2347735.1269633061837.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59F1A3DD@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Nice and all. But I was hoping for something a little more related to Labor day. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 2:00 PM To: robert grossfeld Cc: nwrocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event We may want to ask the family about the use of his name before we commit to it. I personal doubt they would have an issue with it but you never know how touchy some people can be about such things. If the family gave a thumbs up on call the launch "The Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch" then I would definitely toss in my vote for it. Chris Guenther On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:48 PM, robert grossfeld < rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org> wrote: > I second the name....... IF that matters................. > > On Mar 26, 2010, at 12:51 PM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > Dang - thanks for the correction! That's what I get for thinking about > rockets on a busy work schedule. Yeah, let's try to keep the OROC event a > mix of commercial days and EX days if possible. Also, I like the idea of > calling this the "Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch". Head back down. /Steve > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: robert grossfeld > > Sent: Mar 26, 2010 2:03 PM > > To: Steve Cutonilli , nwrocketry > > Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > > > Steve, > > FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... > At least that is how I understand it..... > > > > Bob > > On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > >> Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that > very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule like > that. /Steve > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Robert Krausert > >> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM > >> To: members at oregonrocketry.org > >> Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > >> > >> While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative > name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? > >> > >> Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and > 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying > time. > >> > >> What will the event name be? Help decide. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Robert > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Members mailing list > >> Members at oregonrocketry.org > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Fri Mar 26 14:39:14 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:39:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59F1A3DD@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <2347735.1269633061837.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59F1A3DD@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: I think of it as for Alex, it was a labor of love............ On Mar 26, 2010, at 2:34 PM, Krausert, Robert wrote: > Nice and all. But I was hoping for something a little more related to Labor day. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 2:00 PM > To: robert grossfeld > Cc: nwrocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > We may want to ask the family about the use of his name before we commit to > it. I personal doubt they would have an issue with it but you never know > how touchy some people can be about such things. If the family gave a > thumbs up on call the launch "The Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch" then I > would definitely toss in my vote for it. > > Chris Guenther > > On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:48 PM, robert grossfeld < > rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org> wrote: > >> I second the name....... IF that matters................. >> >> On Mar 26, 2010, at 12:51 PM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: >> >>> Dang - thanks for the correction! That's what I get for thinking about >> rockets on a busy work schedule. Yeah, let's try to keep the OROC event a >> mix of commercial days and EX days if possible. Also, I like the idea of >> calling this the "Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch". Head back down. /Steve >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: robert grossfeld >>> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 2:03 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli , nwrocketry >>> Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >>> >>> Steve, >>> FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... >> At least that is how I understand it..... >>> >>> Bob >>> On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: >>> >>>> Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that >> very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule like >> that. /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Robert Krausert >>>> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM >>>> To: members at oregonrocketry.org >>>> Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >>>> >>>> While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative >> name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? >>>> >>>> Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and >> 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying >> time. >>>> >>>> What will the event name be? Help decide. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Robert >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Members mailing list >>>> Members at oregonrocketry.org >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members >>> >>> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager >>> >>> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >>> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 >>> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 >>> >>> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our >> natural world. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager >> >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 >> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 >> >> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our >> natural world. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From sb at berfield.com Fri Mar 26 14:56:58 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:56:58 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] altimeter for sale Message-ID: Hi all, I have a brand new unused HCX for sale. Retail was $230. Make me an offer. I'll have it with me at the launch this weekend if anyone wants it who is attending. Scott From appusher at q.com Fri Mar 26 17:10:01 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:10:01 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Launch at Mansfield Message-ID: Dave and I are about to head over to Mansfield with the store. Projects are planned to fly. See ya there, Dave and Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Mar 26 18:47:12 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E83095@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com > References: <6654042.1269623598947.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59E83095@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <2f7fd8c7688a90ffd74397832f0646ce.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> FWIW, I'm planning on attending Sheridan but all other launches are fading into weak "maybe." Cost is a factor for me and my only nephew is getting married at the end of June--I'm gonna hafta rent a suit and drive up to Tacoma for that. No, it's too formal for blue jeans and I haven't worn a suit in, well, something over 40 years. Why'd the kid have to grow up to become a Starbucks store manager instead of a hippie? ;-) Anyway, that little family function is a direct trade-off for any of the early Brothers launches. Which means the sunseeker idea gets delayed another year, which was what it was looking like anyway from a technical and budgetary standpoint. Which puts me back on track for a glider-like rocket at Sheridan. (Sagebrush is a mortal enemy of gliders.) Head, wall, repeat. :) That's all I ever seem to be able to actually get done! +McG+ > That's correct. Labor day weekend. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of robert grossfeld > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 11:04 AM > To: Steve Cutonilli; nwrocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > Steve, > FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... > At least that is how I understand it..... > > Bob > On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > >> Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that >> very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule >> like that. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Krausert >> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM >> To: members at oregonrocketry.org >> Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >> >> While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative >> name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? >> >> Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and >> 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying >> time. >> >> What will the event name be? Help decide. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Members mailing list >> Members at oregonrocketry.org >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From tnetcenter at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 18:59:53 2010 From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:59:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: VHF repeater in the Black Rock area Message-ID: <0D2FD57A610E481A90F5F6C467CFCB51@TNTCENTER> ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Palmer Steve Palmer, KA6DHU --- On Wed, 3/24/10, Kathy P wrote: I received the following from Dave Book of Friends of the Black Rock: For Immediate Release 3/23/10 New Friends of Black Rock Amateur Repeater Makes Black Rock Communication Easy! Black Rock Desert travelers with Amateur Radio ?Ham? Licenses can now take advantage of a new wide area VHF radio repeater located in the Granite Mountains near Gerlach. With a mobile radio, the approximate coverage is from Leadville to Soldier Meadows to the Jackson Mountains and south to about Nixon. This area includes all the main Playa area and much of the BLM National Conservation Area. The frequency is 145.230(-) MHz and the PL tone is 123. This new repeater is sponsored by the Friends of the Black Rock, www.blackrockfriends.org. The repeater was made possible by contributions from the Sierra Nevada Amateur Radio Society, N7KP Steve Kometz, Friends of the Black Rock, the High Rock Trekkers, KE7JIR Dennis Porter, KE7WRB Craig McAllister, W8KHU Dan O?Day, and KD7YIM David Book. The actual repeater site was provided by the Bureau of Land Management. This new repeater is a solar site with battery back-up so please use simplex when possible. To prevent overuse, this repeater will be turned off during Burning Man. This new repeater does not provide coverage into the Reno area but both the 147.030 MHz (PL 123) repeater on Virginia Peak and 146.880 (PL 123) repeater near Lovelock/Toulon cover much of the Black Rock and reach into Reno. Note that the 146.880 repeater will change frequency to 146.925 about June 2010. The Reno link for the Toulon repeater is off but will be turned back on when the frequency is changed. There is also an additional new UHF repeater located in Gerlach on 444.175 MHz(+5 MHz), PL 100. This UHF repeater also includes as 911 phone patch and IRLP node # 7249. To call 911, just key the mike, enter 911, and follow the prompts! They also have APRS. To use the phone patch for other calls, you must join their organization. You can get more information via www.cq-blackrock.org. They also have a simplex VHF IRLP node # 3075 at 146.700, PL of 100. Be sure to disconnect your Automatic Repeater Shift on this frequency! Their repeater is located in Gerlach and has AC power, internet, phone access and similar amenities that are not available at the remote Granite Range site of the VHF repeater! The UHF repeater will remain ON during Burning Man. In the future, we may link the wide-area VHF repeater to the UHF repeater for 911 calls and access to their other features. For those without an amateur license, consider obtaining one if you travel in the backcountry. Morse code is no longer required and obtaining a license is easier than ever before. Recent licensees in the Reno area have ranged from a 9 year old girl to a 94 year old man! Single band, mobile radios start at about $150 and are usually 50 watts. Using a network of free repeaters, relay stations that receive and retransmit your signal over a wide area, these radios usually allow you to talk to other users in a 50 mile area. For more information on earning your license, visit www.arrl.org. People in the Reno area can also call David Book, 775/843-6443 to get more information. -END- For more information: Friends of the Black Rock David Book, KD7YIM cell 775/843-6443 dbook at gbis.com Kathy Genealogists never die, they just lose their census. visit my family history website: http://dutraporter.tribalpages.com/ From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat Mar 27 00:56:00 2010 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Decertified motors Message-ID: <0249c6514d2c3acba73c30c6d4bfcade.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzHEY! I just came across an article on Rocketry Planet dated March 12 that TRA has decided that out-of-cert motors can be flown at EX launches. Is this in effect now, not just contemplated? Yeehaw! Darn! I now have a reason to go to EX launches so I can use up some of my box full of out-of-cert motors. Unfortunately, the cost of trips to Brothers is an issue right now. :( Must go...can't go...must go...can't go... Gonna hafta figure out something. +McG+ From Simpsonclark at aol.com Sat Mar 27 08:44:57 2010 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:44:57 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] What site do members use for wind forecast? Message-ID: <17d5e.4a234ff6.38df81f9@aol.com> Try what us plane jockeys use... _http://aviationweather.gov/adds/winds/_ (http://aviationweather.gov/adds/winds/) The scale is national, but it has two advantages; there are hourly forecasts and it is for winds aloft as well as surface. For Mansfield, 6000' msl is about 3800' agl, or typical 'chute altitude. Except for local anomalies, like say near a valley and near the ground both, it isn't that big a problem using the national map. Particularly good if you plan to fly over 8000' above ground level. On the left is a city selector... Mansfield weather and forecasts are available in detail. -Robert In a message dated 3/26/2010 1:15:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes: WOW Thank you Brad! I checked out the site and changed the map to see our new Tillamook launch site and our others: Willsonville, Brothers, and Sheridan here in Oregon. This is a great site and gives you an awesome time frame to look ahead. This is going to come in very handy for any future launches in the Northwest. I Bet Mr. Kruasert will be adding a link to it on the Northwest Rocketry website. Cause I can already see that with checking the site ahead of time I can judge which size drogue or streamer I should need for a close recovery on dual deployment. The applications and use for this almost endless. Again thank you for sharing the site with us. Chris Guenther On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Brad McClure wrote: > > I've been tracking wind patterns at 60 Acres and then came across a site > that has done reasonably well at forecasting wind patterns. It's not a > rocketry site but the primary target audience are those dependant on wind. > On the down side it takes a bit to get used to the site and it requires > that you have Java installed. > > > > Here's a link for 60 Acres, to use simply change the Map Time selection to > the day/time that you're interested in launching a rocket. > > > http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=119®ionProductID=3&day=0&timeoffset=21&selected_model_id= > > > > After you look at it for a minute youl see Lake Sammamish center right > and Lake Washington to the left of Lake Sammamish. I simply extrapolate the > general location of 60 Acres from there. > > > > And here's a link for Eastern Wa. > > > http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=139®ionProductID=3&day=0&timeoffset=34&selected_model_id= > > > > After you look at it for a minute you'll see Lake Chelan just left of > center and Banks Lake to the right of center - draw an imaginary line from > the end of Lake Chelan to the point below the top of Banks Lake where it > narrows and Mansfield is approx half way between the two lake on said > imaginary line. > > > > Enjoy > > > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From glech at aol.com Sat Mar 27 11:20:34 2010 From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:20:34 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] View from space on the cheap Message-ID: <8CC9BF153CBD9F7-163C-188F2@webmail-d074.sysops.aol.com> This was the headline on the MSNBC website today: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36063922#36063922 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36063922#36049710 You gotta love it. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 From jhadv at pacifier.com Sat Mar 27 13:07:43 2010 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 13:07:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 79, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20100327130714.00c35008@mail.iinet.com> >I have a brand new unused HCX for sale. A Garmin HCX? What is this thing exactly? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Mar 27 18:14:00 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 18:14:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event References: <2347735.1269633061837.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <32A025AD9B3642719C6A9DF668CAC09D@LaptopKrausert> Steve, Bob and Pete, I'm hoping there are hard feelings over the Labor day weekend event name. I truly understand how much Alex had impacted you all. I certainly meant no offense in the naming, but tried to keep it generic in nature. If you'd like, I'd be honored to do a moment of silence and then send a rocket up under Alex' memories. Maybe Pete or Steve, you can put together an N motor and rocket for a hill top launch. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert grossfeld" To: "Steve Cutonilli" ; "nwrocketry" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >I second the name....... IF that matters................. > > On Mar 26, 2010, at 12:51 PM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: > >> Dang - thanks for the correction! That's what I get for thinking about >> rockets on a busy work schedule. Yeah, let's try to keep the OROC event >> a mix of commercial days and EX days if possible. Also, I like the idea >> of calling this the "Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch". Head back down. >> /Steve >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: robert grossfeld >> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 2:03 PM >> To: Steve Cutonilli , nwrocketry >> Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >> >> Steve, >> FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... >> At least that is how I understand it..... >> >> Bob >> On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: >> >>> Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that >>> very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule >>> like that. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Krausert >>> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM >>> To: members at oregonrocketry.org >>> Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >>> >>> While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative >>> name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? >>> >>> Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and >>> 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying >>> time. >>> >>> What will the event name be? Help decide. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Members mailing list >>> Members at oregonrocketry.org >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members >> >> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager >> >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 >> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 >> >> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our >> natural world. >> >> >> >> > > Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager > > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 > Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 > > Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our > natural world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Sat Mar 27 17:20:08 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 17:20:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] View from space on the cheap Message-ID: Cool, but hardly the first, Gary Lech wrote: > > This was the headline on the MSNBC website today: > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36063922#36063922 > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36063922#36049710 > >You gotta love it. > > > > >Cheers from ~ >Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA/NAR L1 > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 27 19:05:47 2010 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event Message-ID: <5948463.1269741947300.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net> We're cool - I like the event name that was settled on. Yeah, the rocket - we flew the big guy's rocket last year on a 5-grain 98mm N - that's the tradition - we should do it again this year. /Steve -----Original Message----- >From: Robert Krausert >Sent: Mar 27, 2010 9:14 PM >To: robert grossfeld , Steve Cutonilli , nwrocketry >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > >Steve, Bob and Pete, > >I'm hoping there are hard feelings over the Labor day weekend event name. I >truly understand how much Alex had impacted you all. I certainly meant no >offense in the naming, but tried to keep it generic in nature. > >If you'd like, I'd be honored to do a moment of silence and then send a >rocket up under Alex' memories. Maybe Pete or Steve, you can put together an >N motor and rocket for a hill top launch. > >Cheers, >Robert > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "robert grossfeld" >To: "Steve Cutonilli" ; "nwrocketry" > >Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:48 PM >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event > > >>I second the name....... IF that matters................. >> >> On Mar 26, 2010, at 12:51 PM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: >> >>> Dang - thanks for the correction! That's what I get for thinking about >>> rockets on a busy work schedule. Yeah, let's try to keep the OROC event >>> a mix of commercial days and EX days if possible. Also, I like the idea >>> of calling this the "Alex McLaughlin Memorial Launch". Head back down. >>> /Steve >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: robert grossfeld >>> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 2:03 PM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli , nwrocketry >>> Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >>> >>> Steve, >>> FITS is memorial day weekend, the OROC launch is Labor Day weekend....... >>> At least that is how I understand it..... >>> >>> Bob >>> On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:13 AM, steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote: >>> >>>> Hmmm, that's a tough EX call for me - was planning to be at FITS that >>>> very same weekend - seems odd OROC would want to overlap its schedule >>>> like that. /Steve >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Robert Krausert >>>> Sent: Mar 26, 2010 12:41 AM >>>> To: members at oregonrocketry.org >>>> Subject: [OROC Members] Event Name Ideas - Labor Day Event >>>> >>>> While I like the name "Hardtail X-Dream" name you might have alternative >>>> name ideas. What is the name for the event, that you recoomend? >>>> >>>> Also, very little EX interest. That said, we might do a no-day EX and >>>> 4-day commercial. EX folks chime in if you wish to use the extra flying >>>> time. >>>> >>>> What will the event name be? Help decide. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Robert >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Members mailing list >>>> Members at oregonrocketry.org >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members >>> >>> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager >>> >>> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >>> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 >>> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 >>> >>> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our >>> natural world. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager >> >> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory >> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 >> Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 >> >> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our >> natural world. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > From sb at berfield.com Sat Mar 27 23:51:40 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:51:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] pictures from today Message-ID: <001b01cace43$1f209480$5d61bd80$@com> Hi all, Nice day at Mansfield today. Posted a bunch of pics to my Picasa Web albums page. If you see any you want, let me know which and I will clean them up and get you full rez versions. http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/MarchLaunch2010# Scott From k2tsai at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 10:28:25 2010 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:28:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] pictures from today In-Reply-To: <001b01cace43$1f209480$5d61bd80$@com> References: <001b01cace43$1f209480$5d61bd80$@com> Message-ID: <7816cff1003281028o64c16e7apf797dc54e559427d@mail.gmail.com> Great photos, Scott! I'd like to take you up on your offer and ask for a few photos. They came up on Picassa as 28, 32, and 34. These are Alex and I prepping the heavily modified Estes Maxi-Honest John, and two shots of the rocket leaving the pad. Thanks a million! What camera do you use? I've tried taking photos, but my current camera is limited to ~3 shots/second, and it's just not fast enough. Cheers, - Ken On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > Hi all, > > > > Nice day at Mansfield today. Posted a bunch of pics to my Picasa Web albums > page. If you see any you want, let me know which and I will clean them up > and get you full rez versions. > > > > http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/MarchLaunch2010# > > > > > > Scott > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 14:24:50 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:24:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield Spring Festivus - NWR Website Message-ID: Please remember you can post your images from the launch at www.northwestrocketry.com in the upload images section. Password is "nwruploads" Scott Berfield, I've already added a link from the site to your great images. http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=247 Certifications are also welcome. If you got your L1, L2 and/or L3 during the event, be sure to send me the required information. Details at http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=1848 Event hosts by WAC, please send me the flight count when you have a chance, and I'll update the site. Both the calendar page and ticker total. Hope everyone had fun. Cheers, Robert From worthenc at msn.com Sun Mar 28 16:13:54 2010 From: worthenc at msn.com (JAMES C WORTHEN) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:13:54 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC teams need F motors Message-ID: There are three TARC team here in Treasure Valley (Boise) that are looking for some F motors. the particular motors that sim out the best are F20-7 F22-7 F25-6 (almost too much total impulse) F23FJ 4 or 7 F26-6 F39-6 Any of the above would work or could be made to work. Ifyou would be interested in donating a could or three that would be awesome. If you would like to sell them to the teams, I will take personal responsibility for seeing that you get paid for them. What doesn't get used I would be happy to return to you. The big problem is that one week from tomorrow is the deadline for this year. So they need to be sent our way ASAP. Please contact me off list if you have any available. Thanks J C Worthen Boise c 208-631-0450 h 208-344-0488 From kent.newman at comcast.net Sun Mar 28 16:55:18 2010 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:55:18 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April Message-ID: <001401caced2$1f3e96d0$5dbbc470$@newman@comcast.net> Greetings all! Please note on your calendars a change in the meeting date for the April WAC meeting from Saturday, April 3rd to the following Saturday, April 10th due to the Easter weekend. The meeting will be held at 7:00 PM at Peace Lutheran in Puyallup on Saturday night, April 10th. Agenda topics include: Old Business March Launch Report FITS Update New Business Presentations (and discussions) . Avionics Bays . Recovery System Design . Parachutes Show and tell General rocketry banter Regards, Kent From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Sun Mar 28 17:22:32 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:22:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham SLI Launch Report References: <001401caced2$1f3e96d0$5dbbc470$@newman@comcast.net> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300535@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> As the old saying goes: If at first you don't succeed: try, try, again (and when you do, make sure you have lots of backup plans!) We arrived at the Sportsmens' Club at around 10:30 am Saturday and the kids immediately began setting up. They dove into their checklists and got down to business while I erected a "don't mess with the students while they work" force field around them. :-) I got comments from several flyers that they were so impressed with the businesslike manner that the students were going about their work that they did not want to get in the way at all. In a little under an hour, they had all their prep done and were ready for final flight checks, which meant that I had to build them a motor. Gotta love those CTI motors...open package, lube, insert into casing, fasten closure, done. Pre-cleaning Bill Munds' case that he lent us took longer than the motor build. (Thanks, Bill, for setting a very low bar on the standard "return it cleaner than you borrowed it" policy!) They headed to the pad, continued with their very rigorous checklist, and with minimal interference from me (I was the only one tall enough to activate two of their switches because the tall kid was on an airplane to Ecuador for Spring Break) they completed their preflight and retreated to Minimum Safe Distance to watch the show. Video of the Flight can be seen on youtube at the following link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83XIdNFqRGM Caveat: I can't track a rocket with a video camera to save my life, so this video actually represents some of my best work ever...because the rocket actually makes it into the frame at a couple of points during the descent..... The drogue deployed on schedule at apogee, and the main was ejected on schedule at 800'. It took a moment to fully inflate the 'chute, but it did open all the way (according to the altimeter data, by about 500') so we have a 100% "clean" flight to report to NASA. The kids are completely stoked, and we're getting a revised report ready for our Videoconference with the NASA review panel on Wednesday. Huntsville, here we come! Huge thanks to Bill Munds for loaning us his casing, and the entire Washington Aerospace Club for making the Spring Festivus launch a reality this year! We couldn't have done it without you!!! Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 From sb at berfield.com Sun Mar 28 19:12:54 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:12:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham SLI Launch Report In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300535@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <001401caced2$1f3e96d0$5dbbc470$@newman@comcast.net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300535@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <002b01cacee5$5955fa80$0c01ef80$@com> I'll put the shakey point and shoot 720p video of he boost up on YouTube shortly. Once its up I'll send the link. It was a really nice flight. The kids should be proud of themselves. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 5:23 PM To: members at washingtonaerospace.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham SLI Launch Report As the old saying goes: If at first you don't succeed: try, try, again (and when you do, make sure you have lots of backup plans!) We arrived at the Sportsmens' Club at around 10:30 am Saturday and the kids immediately began setting up. They dove into their checklists and got down to business while I erected a "don't mess with the students while they work" force field around them. :-) I got comments from several flyers that they were so impressed with the businesslike manner that the students were going about their work that they did not want to get in the way at all. In a little under an hour, they had all their prep done and were ready for final flight checks, which meant that I had to build them a motor. Gotta love those CTI motors...open package, lube, insert into casing, fasten closure, done. Pre-cleaning Bill Munds' case that he lent us took longer than the motor build. (Thanks, Bill, for setting a very low bar on the standard "return it cleaner than you borrowed it" policy!) They headed to the pad, continued with their very rigorous checklist, and with minimal interference from me (I was the only one tall enough to activate two of their switches because the tall kid was on an airplane to Ecuador for Spring Break) they completed their preflight and retreated to Minimum Safe Distance to watch the show. Video of the Flight can be seen on youtube at the following link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83XIdNFqRGM Caveat: I can't track a rocket with a video camera to save my life, so this video actually represents some of my best work ever...because the rocket actually makes it into the frame at a couple of points during the descent..... The drogue deployed on schedule at apogee, and the main was ejected on schedule at 800'. It took a moment to fully inflate the 'chute, but it did open all the way (according to the altimeter data, by about 500') so we have a 100% "clean" flight to report to NASA. The kids are completely stoked, and we're getting a revised report ready for our Videoconference with the NASA review panel on Wednesday. Huntsville, here we come! Huge thanks to Bill Munds for loaning us his casing, and the entire Washington Aerospace Club for making the Spring Festivus launch a reality this year! We couldn't have done it without you!!! Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From faderlk at hotmail.com Sun Mar 28 19:16:01 2010 From: faderlk at hotmail.com (william carpenter) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:16:01 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Photos and Video from Spring Festivus Message-ID: Hello everybody, I have uploaded my thirty good photos and four videos from this weekend's WAC launch. If you want any photos I took of your rockets, if you want to be given credit for a rocket, or if I spelled your name wrong, feel free to e-mail me. I'll gladly send you a high-resolution copy of any photos I have and will add any information you give me. If you don't see your rocket, you can still ask. My father took several photos at the launch as well, so your rocket may show up there. If you'd like my video footage, I can burn it to a CD and give it to you at the next launch or mail it to you. My photo album can be found here. http://our.rocketryplanet.com/photo/albums/wac-spring-festivus-3262710 My YouTube playlist can be found here. http://www.youtube.com/user/simav8r#g/c/6E53D7B6400B92BE Regards, William Carpenter _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ From sb at berfield.com Sun Mar 28 20:07:17 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:07:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] video of Ingraham SLI launch Message-ID: <003a01caceec$f1135460$d339fd20$@com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEEPvHWwSso Point and shoot handheld so jumpy 720p of the boost. From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Sun Mar 28 20:09:44 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:09:44 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm fwd closure Message-ID: Does anyone know what size of all thread goes in the end of the 98mm fwd closure? 5/16ths sounds right but I'm not sure. Since I haven't received the closure in the mail yet I thought I'd ask the list...............Mark From appusher at q.com Sun Mar 28 20:30:28 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 03:30:28 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm fwd closure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, www.rouse-tech.com products 98mm Thread Sizes for Tapped Forward Closures 38mm forward closure 5/16" X 18 TPI 54mm forward closure 5/16" X 18 TPI 75mm and 98mm closure 3/8" X 16 TPI Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:09:44 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm fwd closure > > Does anyone know what size of all thread goes in the end of the 98mm fwd closure? 5/16ths sounds right but I'm not sure. Since I haven't received the closure in the mail yet I thought I'd ask the list...............Mark > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From appusher at q.com Sun Mar 28 21:57:15 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 04:57:15 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Sales ends on the last day of the month Message-ID: Hi Fliers, Just a reminder that the sale ends at the end of the month and the order goes in the following day. Last minute orders accepted by 8pm on the 31st with PayPal payments or by special arrangement. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From vern_knowles at att.net Sun Mar 28 22:05:38 2010 From: vern_knowles at att.net (Vern Knowles) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 23:05:38 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm fwd closure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501cacefd$79babf50$0400a8c0@MainPC> They are 3/8". Vern K. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Dunkle > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:10 PM > To: rockets NW list; oroc list > Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm fwd closure > > Does anyone know what size of all thread goes in the end > of the 98mm fwd closure? 5/16ths sounds right but I'm not > sure. Since I haven't received the closure in the mail yet I > thought I'd ask the list...............Mark > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Sun Mar 28 22:47:32 2010 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:47:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Sunriver March Madness sale winding down.............. Message-ID: Last chance to get on the only sale of the spring/summer season. Three days left. Don't miss out........ --------------- OUR March Madness SALE Model Rockets from Flis Kits, Estes,Squirrel Works - all 20% off All Madcow Rocketry Kits- 20% off Mid Power & High Power kits from PML and LOC are 15% off ( 3.9" or smaller airframes) Aerotech kits are all 20% off ------------------------------------ Monster Motors Cases- Under $250 retail, and get 12% off Order $250 RETAIL and get 15% off Order $500 RETAIL and get 20% off Order $1,000 RETAIL and get 25% off (Does not include Aerotech brand special hardware) Estes motors are all 25% off, including bulk packs Aerotech Hobby motors- A through G -all 20% off retail instant rebate on advanced orders---- Order over $250 worth of motors, get a 25% off retail instant rebate These motors can be shipped or picked up at a launch. ------------------------- All Perfectflite & Gwiz electronics are 10% off!!!!! ------------------------ Aerotech Hobby High Power reloads: So here is the deal: Order $200 retail, get a 15% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $500 retail, get a 20% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $1000 retail, get a 25% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $2500 retail, call for your instant rebate on your order.................... ( Does not apply to Aerotech cert motor special) Aerotech H and above reloads delivered either at a May launch that we attend or by special arrangement. Just think, May is just right around the corner!! No limits, so get your friends together for this great deal. Here are the rules for the sale: 1. All orders must be emailed to rocketstore at earthlink.net 2. All orders need to be prepaid, with Paypal or credit card, (cash/check for in store sales-appointment or by arrangement required) 3. Shipping is charged at our cost, no handling fee 4. Sale ends on 3/31/2010 5. Please advise that this sale applies for delivery to a April or May launch, NOT a March launch or delivery. 6. All high power motors needed to be delivered to certified flyers ---------------------------- Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From arrsales at cox.net Mon Mar 29 08:03:29 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:03:29 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham SLI Launch Report In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300535@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <001401caced2$1f3e96d0$5dbbc470$@newman@comcast.net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300535@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <13A0C8266947476AA9380E36C746F259@apcp.local> Congratulations!! Cool paint job too! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 8:23 PM To: members at washingtonaerospace.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham SLI Launch Report As the old saying goes: If at first you don't succeed: try, try, again (and when you do, make sure you have lots of backup plans!) We arrived at the Sportsmens' Club at around 10:30 am Saturday and the kids immediately began setting up. They dove into their checklists and got down to business while I erected a "don't mess with the students while they work" force field around them. :-) I got comments from several flyers that they were so impressed with the businesslike manner that the students were going about their work that they did not want to get in the way at all. In a little under an hour, they had all their prep done and were ready for final flight checks, which meant that I had to build them a motor. Gotta love those CTI motors...open package, lube, insert into casing, fasten closure, done. Pre-cleaning Bill Munds' case that he lent us took longer than the motor build. (Thanks, Bill, for setting a very low bar on the standard "return it cleaner than you borrowed it" policy!) They headed to the pad, continued with their very rigorous checklist, and with minimal interference from me (I was the only one tall enough to activate two of their switches because the tall kid was on an airplane to Ecuador for Spring Break) they completed their preflight and retreated to Minimum Safe Distance to watch the show. Video of the Flight can be seen on youtube at the following link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83XIdNFqRGM Caveat: I can't track a rocket with a video camera to save my life, so this video actually represents some of my best work ever...because the rocket actually makes it into the frame at a couple of points during the descent..... The drogue deployed on schedule at apogee, and the main was ejected on schedule at 800'. It took a moment to fully inflate the 'chute, but it did open all the way (according to the altimeter data, by about 500') so we have a 100% "clean" flight to report to NASA. The kids are completely stoked, and we're getting a revised report ready for our Videoconference with the NASA review panel on Wednesday. Huntsville, here we come! Huge thanks to Bill Munds for loaning us his casing, and the entire Washington Aerospace Club for making the Spring Festivus launch a reality this year! We couldn't have done it without you!!! Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 10:04:30 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:04:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Photos and Video from Spring Festivus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When I try to go to the photo page with the link you provided it comes up page not found. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 7:16 PM, william carpenter wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > > > I have uploaded my thirty good photos and four videos from this weekend's > WAC launch. If you want any photos I took of your rockets, if you want to be > given credit for a rocket, or if I spelled your name wrong, feel free to > e-mail me. I'll gladly send you a high-resolution copy of any photos I have > and will add any information you give me. If you don't see your rocket, you > can still ask. My father took several photos at the launch as well, so your > rocket may show up there. > > > > If you'd like my video footage, I can burn it to a CD and give it to you at > the next launch or mail it to you. > > > > My photo album can be found here. > > > > http://our.rocketryplanet.com/photo/albums/wac-spring-festivus-3262710 > > > > My YouTube playlist can be found here. > > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/simav8r#g/c/6E53D7B6400B92BE > > > > Regards, William Carpenter > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From carl at mousetrap.com Mon Mar 29 10:15:36 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:15:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Photos and Video from Spring Festivus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I assume you meant the Rocketry Planet link. It worked for me last night, but appears to be broken this morning. Here is an alternate URL that may work for you: http://our.rocketryplanet.com/photo/album/show?id=1014531:Album:54954 - Carl On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Christopher Guenther < guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote: > When I try to go to the photo page with the link you provided it comes up > page not found. > > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 7:16 PM, william carpenter >wrote: > > > > > Hello everybody, > > > > > > > > I have uploaded my thirty good photos and four videos from this weekend's > > WAC launch. If you want any photos I took of your rockets, if you want to > be > > given credit for a rocket, or if I spelled your name wrong, feel free to > > e-mail me. I'll gladly send you a high-resolution copy of any photos I > have > > and will add any information you give me. If you don't see your rocket, > you > > can still ask. My father took several photos at the launch as well, so > your > > rocket may show up there. > > > > > > > > If you'd like my video footage, I can burn it to a CD and give it to you > at > > the next launch or mail it to you. > > > > > > > > My photo album can be found here. > > > > > > > > http://our.rocketryplanet.com/photo/albums/wac-spring-festivus-3262710 > > > > > > > > My YouTube playlist can be found here. > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/simav8r#g/c/6E53D7B6400B92BE > > > > > > > > Regards, William Carpenter > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From gbrandt at nwic.edu Mon Mar 29 10:23:53 2010 From: gbrandt at nwic.edu (Gary Brandt) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:23:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Photos and Video from Spring Festivus References: Message-ID: <28824CE077894D418D44F35AF6CE8C160CDC67@dolphin.nwic.edu> Hi Carl and the rest that we there on Sunday. On behalf of the Northwest Indian College Space Center, I want to thank you all for the warm reception and the eagerness that you exhibited in talking to us about HPR. We all came away with a great deal of information, increased enthusiasm and an appreciation for the work that you do! We're looking into our budget for the April 24/25 launch and will most likely be there. Again, thanks a lot. And a special "hello" to Seth. Gary ----------------------------------------------------- Gary L. Brandt Faculty Computers/Robotics/Space Center http://blogs.nwic.edu/spacecenter 360-392-4318 ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Carl Hamilton Sent: Mon 3/29/2010 10:15 AM To: Christopher Guenther Cc: william carpenter; Rockets Northwest Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Photos and Video from Spring Festivus I assume you meant the Rocketry Planet link. It worked for me last night, but appears to be broken this morning. Here is an alternate URL that may work for you: http://our.rocketryplanet.com/photo/album/show?id=1014531:Album:54954 - Carl On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Christopher Guenther < guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote: > When I try to go to the photo page with the link you provided it comes up > page not found. > > On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 7:16 PM, william carpenter >wrote: > > > > > Hello everybody, > > > > > > > > I have uploaded my thirty good photos and four videos from this weekend's > > WAC launch. If you want any photos I took of your rockets, if you want to > be > > given credit for a rocket, or if I spelled your name wrong, feel free to > > e-mail me. I'll gladly send you a high-resolution copy of any photos I > have > > and will add any information you give me. If you don't see your rocket, > you > > can still ask. My father took several photos at the launch as well, so > your > > rocket may show up there. > > > > > > > > If you'd like my video footage, I can burn it to a CD and give it to you > at > > the next launch or mail it to you. > > > > > > > > My photo album can be found here. > > > > > > > > http://our.rocketryplanet.com/photo/albums/wac-spring-festivus-3262710 > > > > > > > > My YouTube playlist can be found here. > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/simav8r#g/c/6E53D7B6400B92BE > > > > > > > > Regards, William Carpenter > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Mon Mar 29 14:37:17 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:37:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Spring Festivus launch report Message-ID: I arrived at the Sportsmen's Club shortly before 5:00PM on Friday to find Bryan and Debbie Schopp already there with their grandson, Kaleb. Bob and Ann Yanecek and Mark Lyons and Valerie Elmer arrived shortly after me. I don't know which of them arrived first, but I'm sure they can tell you. I dropped piles of GSE close to their final locations and began setting up camp in the wind. Jim Jopson and Ray Stoner appeared some time later, followed by Cameron Tinder and crew. After some fun chit chat with friends, where the subject of my pants came up *way* too frequently, I went into town for dinner (thanks Mark and Valerie) and then turned in for the night. It was cold, but sometime during the night the wind subsided. The late hours also marked the arrive of Bill Munds and Dave Woodard of PSP and Robo Jopson. This would be the same crew that spent Saturday night at the launch site. Saturday morning brought cold, but clear, skies and minimal wind. I finished setting up the range, called Seattle ARTCC, had some breakfast (thanks Jim and Rob), had some coffee (thanks Ray, Mark, and Valerie), and we were ready to fly. The first flight was going to be Mark Lyons' spool rocket with "boink" recovery, but thankfully Luke and William carpenter arrived with an Estes Interceptor ready to fly and I gave them the distinction of first flight of the launch, which was perfect. Mark's "rocket" was next and didn't fare as well. People continued to roll in throughout the morning and we maintained a slow but steady stream of flights. The wind picked up in the afternoon, but not enough to keep people from flying. There were many great flights, I couldn't name them all, but of note for me were: Ingraham's SLI flight, William Carpenter's junior L1 certification, Ken Tsai's almost L2 certification, a few scrambled TARC eggs, an incredible streamer from the Kentwood TARC team, Bryan Whitemarsh's amazing corkscrew Crossbow, the Jopsons flying a bunch of parts from the away cell and finding them all, and Dave and Ian Walp flying about a million times. By the time the flying was done, the camping area that had been growing throughout the day had shrunk back to the campers and tents that stood at dawn. Despite the Walps' effort, we *only* had 63 flight for the day. Somewhere in there, I flew my Performance Rocketry Gizmo and had a nice afternoon snack that really hit the spot (thanks again Mark and Valerie). It happened to be Mark Lyons' birthday and Ann Yanecek treated us to a phenomenal birthday dinner of paella, salad, and bread. Thanks Ann! This was followed by more great conversation around the burn barrel, where the subject of my pants only came up a few times. I went to bed under a beautiful, clear, moonlit sky. I emerged from my tent Sunday morning to find a completely overcast sky with rain threatening as predicted. Every time I thought we would be okay, the sky would start to spit. None of the day-fliers from Saturday were returning and interest from those on-site was low, so I broke down most of the range, leaving one rail and one 1/4" rod. Cameron Tinder flew his V2 again, Bryon Schopp flew something from the low-power pads, and just as Mark Lyons was walking out to put his upscale Goblin on the pad, the group from Northwest Indian College arrived. They had lots of great questions and, thankfully, were able to see Mark's flight just to get a feel for HPR. Gary Brandt had a beautifully finished PML Ariel with him and we *almost* put it up for a certification flight, but once again the sky started to spit and the reasonable decision was made to hold off until Gary had more time to prepare for the flight. We then enjoyed some flights of their water rocket, which we discovered can have parachute problems and crash just like our rockets. Fun! Hopefully we'll see the NWIC group at the April launch and/or FITS! I got my camp site and all of the GSE packed into the van and was on the road shortly before noon. I enjoyed sun and blue skies until Leavenworth and didn't see continuous rain until I reached Skykomish. We may have been able to fly a few more hours. Bummer. I love rocket launches. With only a few beers and some fresh baked goods, I ate and drank like a king the entire weekend due to the generosity of fellow fliers. I did bring my own food, but every time I turned around somebody was offering me something yummy. Thanks to everybody that kept me well fed and caffeinated! Thanks also go out to Tom Snell and the town of Mansfield for allowing us to fly from the Sportmen's Club and for supporting us. - Carl From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Mon Mar 29 14:57:30 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:57:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Question - Ellis Mountain Message-ID: Found some really interesting reloads out on the ThrustCurve site but their host name is not active and their alternate GeoCities site is not found. My web searches have turned up very little and so I'm wondering if they've become a victim of the economy. Anyone have any info? Thanks -brad From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Mon Mar 29 15:08:29 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:08:29 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Question - Ellis Mountain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did a search for Robert Ellis and found http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2194/143/ sad loss :-( -brad > From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:57:30 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] Question - Ellis Mountain > > > Found some really interesting reloads out on the ThrustCurve site but their host name is not active and their alternate GeoCities site is not found. My web searches have turned up very little and so I'm wondering if they've become a victim of the economy. > > > > Anyone have any info? > > > > Thanks > > -brad > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sealtee at cableone.net Tue Mar 30 08:37:17 2010 From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:37:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LDRS - Don't know Squat Message-ID: <01c301cad01e$e125fd40$a371f7c0$@net> I just got a note from Gene at Fruity Chutes and I am forwarding it here. He is running an LDRS "Don't know Squat" dual deployment package promotion. Even if you do know Squat and you are not planning to attend LDRS, you might want to go and check out this promotion. Regards, Cameron Tinder TRA, BAR & NAR L2 Hi all, Those of you going to LDRS and building a Squat we've been getting a lot of orders for chutes and other gear for the Squat. The 30" size seems ideal for this. And in particular there is interest in converting the Squat to dual deploy using the recovery tether. We've put together a bundle offer that includes all the major components needed for this and then discounted it at 20% off! We're also offering a single deploy option if you want to use our premium cutes with your Squat. The Dual bundle includes: * 1 CFC-30 - 30" Custom Parachute - 3.2lb @ 20fps - Color 1: Black - Color 2: Yellow - Other: Compact HP Main, 320lb nylon shroud, 3/8" compact bridal * 1 CFC-12 - 12" Custom Parachute - 0.5lb @ 20fps - Color 1: Black - Color 2: Yellow - Other: Compact Drogue, 320lb nylon shroud, 3/8" compact bridal * 1 NB-11 - 11" Nomex Blanket * 1 CDB-3 - 3" Deployment Bag, 6" long * 1 RT-L1 - HDPE L1 Recovery Tether * 1 RT-SHEATH L1 - Recovery Tether Sheath, use over tether to protect airframe and your other gear This is a $180 value, priced at just $145. Here is a link if you are interested: http://fruitychutes.com/buyachute/index.php?main_page=index &cPath=10 - Regards Gene Engelgau KI6IBL, NAR 86770 / TRA 12243 - L3, Lunar# 1468, CA PIII, LEUP http://fruitychutes.com - Custom Parachutes in Fruit Flavored Colors! 408-499-9050 From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Tue Mar 30 11:56:27 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:56:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April In-Reply-To: <001401caced2$1f3e96d0$5dbbc470$@newman@comcast.net> References: <001401caced2$1f3e96d0$5dbbc470$@newman@comcast.net> Message-ID: Looking forward to the presentations! Last month was packed full of information. In the presentation on recovery system design are there plans to cover the Tender Decender? http://fruitychutes.com/buyachute/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=49 Thanks -brad > From: kent.newman at comcast.net > To: members at washingtonaerospace.org > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:55:18 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April > > Greetings all! > > > > Please note on your calendars a change in the meeting date for the April WAC > meeting from Saturday, April 3rd to the following Saturday, April 10th due > to the Easter weekend. > > > > The meeting will be held at 7:00 PM at Peace Lutheran in Puyallup on > Saturday night, April 10th. > > > > Agenda topics include: > > > > Old Business > > March Launch Report > > FITS Update > > New Business > > Presentations (and discussions) > > . Avionics Bays > > . Recovery System Design > > . Parachutes > > Show and tell > > General rocketry banter > > > > Regards, > > > > Kent > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From carl at mousetrap.com Tue Mar 30 12:27:07 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:27:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Too bad you didn't make the WAC March launch. You could have chatted with the creator of the Tender Descender, Cameron Tinder, in person. I'm sure he'll be at FITS and I can't remember whether he's planning to attend the April launch. - Carl On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Brad McClure wrote: > > Looking forward to the presentations! Last month was packed full of > information. > > > > In the presentation on recovery system design are there plans to cover the > Tender Decender? > http://fruitychutes.com/buyachute/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=49 > > > > Thanks > > -brad > > > From: kent.newman at comcast.net > > To: members at washingtonaerospace.org > > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:55:18 -0700 > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April > > > > Greetings all! > > > > > > > > Please note on your calendars a change in the meeting date for the April > WAC > > meeting from Saturday, April 3rd to the following Saturday, April 10th > due > > to the Easter weekend. > > > > > > > > The meeting will be held at 7:00 PM at Peace Lutheran in Puyallup on > > Saturday night, April 10th. > > > > > > > > Agenda topics include: > > > > > > > > Old Business > > > > March Launch Report > > > > FITS Update > > > > New Business > > > > Presentations (and discussions) > > > > . Avionics Bays > > > > . Recovery System Design > > > > . Parachutes > > > > Show and tell > > > > General rocketry banter > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Kent > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bradmcclure at hotmail.com Tue Mar 30 13:34:54 2010 From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:34:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Unfortunately I didn't know about the decender or that Cameron was at the meeting or I would have introduced myself. If everything goes as planned I would like to attempt L1 at the April launch. Was originally planning on a traditional dual deploy for the second rocket I'm building but the decender looks like an interesting alternative. -brad Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:27:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April From: carl at mousetrap.com To: bradmcclure at hotmail.com CC: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; sealtee at cableone.net Too bad you didn't make the WAC March launch. You could have chatted with the creator of the Tender Descender, Cameron Tinder, in person. I'm sure he'll be at FITS and I can't remember whether he's planning to attend the April launch. - Carl On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Brad McClure wrote: Looking forward to the presentations! Last month was packed full of information. In the presentation on recovery system design are there plans to cover the Tender Decender? http://fruitychutes.com/buyachute/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=49 Thanks -brad > From: kent.newman at comcast.net > To: members at washingtonaerospace.org > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:55:18 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April > > Greetings all! > > > > Please note on your calendars a change in the meeting date for the April WAC > meeting from Saturday, April 3rd to the following Saturday, April 10th due > to the Easter weekend. > > > > The meeting will be held at 7:00 PM at Peace Lutheran in Puyallup on > Saturday night, April 10th. > > > > Agenda topics include: > > > > Old Business > > March Launch Report > > FITS Update > > New Business > > Presentations (and discussions) > > . Avionics Bays > > . Recovery System Design > > . Parachutes > > Show and tell > > General rocketry banter > > > > Regards, > > > > Kent > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kent.newman at comcast.net Tue Mar 30 16:12:22 2010 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:12:22 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April In-Reply-To: References: <001401caced2$1f3e96d0$5dbbc470$@newman@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001601cad05e$7495d480$5dc17d80$@newman@comcast.net> Hi, Brad, The Recovery Design topic will speak more generically to the essentials of recovery and types of recovery as opposed to specific manufacturers. Specific brands and models will be part of the solicited group discussion following each recovery type. User experience, availability, ease of use, etc. will be part of those discussions. Hadn't seen the TD before. Good to see something come out for single end dual deploy. Kent From: Brad McClure [mailto:bradmcclure at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:56 AM To: kent.newman at comcast.net; members at washingtonaerospace.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April Looking forward to the presentations! Last month was packed full of information. In the presentation on recovery system design are there plans to cover the Tender Decender? http://fruitychutes.com/buyachute/index.php?main_page=product_info &cPath=9&products_id=49 Thanks -brad > From: kent.newman at comcast.net > To: members at washingtonaerospace.org > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:55:18 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April > > Greetings all! > > > > Please note on your calendars a change in the meeting date for the April WAC > meeting from Saturday, April 3rd to the following Saturday, April 10th due > to the Easter weekend. > > > > The meeting will be held at 7:00 PM at Peace Lutheran in Puyallup on > Saturday night, April 10th. > > > > Agenda topics include: > > > > Old Business > > March Launch Report > > FITS Update > > New Business > > Presentations (and discussions) > > . Avionics Bays > > . Recovery System Design > > . Parachutes > > Show and tell > > General rocketry banter > > > > Regards, > > > > Kent > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From mrrominwa at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 19:05:51 2010 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <721754.6132.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> to all interested in the Tender Descender Puget Sound Propulsion will have all 3 sizes at the meeting we have made arrangement to be a vendor for Cameron Tinder and I have a rocket set up for it I will bring??? Dave ? ? ? ? ?Tue, 3/30/10, Brad McClure wrote: From: Brad McClure Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April To: carl at mousetrap.com Cc: sealtee at cableone.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com, members at washingtonaerospace.org Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 1:34 PM Unfortunately I didn't know about the decender or that Cameron was at the meeting or I would have introduced myself.? If everything goes as planned I would like to attempt L1 at the April launch.? Was originally planning on a traditional dual deploy for the second rocket I'm building but the decender looks like an interesting alternative. -brad Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:27:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April From: carl at mousetrap.com To: bradmcclure at hotmail.com CC: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; sealtee at cableone.net Too bad you didn't make the WAC March launch. You could have chatted with the creator of the Tender Descender, Cameron Tinder, in person. I'm sure he'll be at FITS and I can't remember whether he's planning to attend the April launch. - Carl On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Brad McClure wrote: Looking forward to the presentations!? Last month was packed full of information. In the presentation on recovery system design are there plans to cover the Tender Decender? http://fruitychutes.com/buyachute/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=49 Thanks -brad > From: kent.newman at comcast.net > To: members at washingtonaerospace.org > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:55:18 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April > > Greetings all! > > > > Please note on your calendars a change in the meeting date for the April WAC > meeting from Saturday, April 3rd to the following Saturday, April 10th due > to the Easter weekend. > > > > The meeting will be held at 7:00 PM at Peace Lutheran in Puyallup on > Saturday night, April 10th. > > > > Agenda topics include: > > > > Old Business > > March Launch Report > > FITS Update > > New Business > > Presentations (and discussions) > > . Avionics Bays > > . Recovery System Design > > . Parachutes > > Show and tell > > General rocketry banter > > > > Regards, > > > > Kent > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Tue Mar 30 23:33:58 2010 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:33:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ssssshhhhhhhhhhh Message-ID: It's quiet. From appusher at q.com Wed Mar 31 05:11:47 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:11:47 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ssssshhhhhhhhhhh In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: its because the kids are sleeping and we are building rockets....................... > From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:33:58 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] Ssssshhhhhhhhhhh > > It's quiet. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rocketsrfun at msn.com Wed Mar 31 06:43:53 2010 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 06:43:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! Message-ID: I'm having the hardest time trying to load different engine files into Rocksim 6.9 (Yes I know this is an older version.) So far this is what I've done: 1. Downloaded Engine files 2. Unzipped engine files 3. Opened Rocksim from the Program files on the hard drive 4. Opened the engine data file and finally, cut and pasted to data file. Still not working. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Don From arrsales at cox.net Wed Mar 31 06:59:37 2010 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:59:37 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would try pasting directly into the .CSV file in the program. Go to the DATA folder in Windows Explorer. Each category seems to have it's own data file (BTDATA.CSV TCDATA.CSV, etc) for body tube, tube coupler, etc.. I'm sure there is a CSV for motors too.. (?) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Don Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:44 AM To: Rockets NW Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I'm having the hardest time trying to load different engine files into Rocksim 6.9 (Yes I know this is an older version.) So far this is what I've done: 1. Downloaded Engine files 2. Unzipped engine files 3. Opened Rocksim from the Program files on the hard drive 4. Opened the engine data file and finally, cut and pasted to data file. Still not working. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Don _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Wed Mar 31 07:13:19 2010 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:13:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003201cad0dc$510b0660$f3211320$@net> Don, You have to run the COMPENG program in the Rocksim program folder to convert the .eng files into the engine database file that Rocksim uses. The .eng files are text files that can be edited in a plain text editor like notepad. However, be careful when doing so since any little error will cause the COMPENG program to abort at that point. The materials and parts files are .csv files as listed. Marty - Rocksim v7.03 user -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:00 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I would try pasting directly into the .CSV file in the program. Go to the DATA folder in Windows Explorer. Each category seems to have it's own data file (BTDATA.CSV TCDATA.CSV, etc) for body tube, tube coupler, etc.. I'm sure there is a CSV for motors too.. (?) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Don Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:44 AM To: Rockets NW Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I'm having the hardest time trying to load different engine files into Rocksim 6.9 (Yes I know this is an older version.) So far this is what I've done: 1. Downloaded Engine files 2. Unzipped engine files 3. Opened Rocksim from the Program files on the hard drive 4. Opened the engine data file and finally, cut and pasted to data file. Still not working. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Don _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From absworld at cet.com Wed Mar 31 08:24:09 2010 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:24:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! In-Reply-To: <003201cad0dc$510b0660$f3211320$@net> References: <003201cad0dc$510b0660$f3211320$@net> Message-ID: <00ad01cad0e6$36b49420$a41dbc60$@com> You also need to close ROCKSIM before running COMPENG. One side note that I just ran into: AT has a new E20 econojet motor yet when I search Thrustcurve.org, I find it listed as an E22. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Marty Weiser Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:13 AM To: 'Always Ready Rocketry'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! Don, You have to run the COMPENG program in the Rocksim program folder to convert the .eng files into the engine database file that Rocksim uses. The .eng files are text files that can be edited in a plain text editor like notepad. However, be careful when doing so since any little error will cause the COMPENG program to abort at that point. The materials and parts files are .csv files as listed. Marty - Rocksim v7.03 user -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:00 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I would try pasting directly into the .CSV file in the program. Go to the DATA folder in Windows Explorer. Each category seems to have it's own data file (BTDATA.CSV TCDATA.CSV, etc) for body tube, tube coupler, etc.. I'm sure there is a CSV for motors too.. (?) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Don Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:44 AM To: Rockets NW Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I'm having the hardest time trying to load different engine files into Rocksim 6.9 (Yes I know this is an older version.) So far this is what I've done: 1. Downloaded Engine files 2. Unzipped engine files 3. Opened Rocksim from the Program files on the hard drive 4. Opened the engine data file and finally, cut and pasted to data file. Still not working. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Don _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rocketsrfun at msn.com Wed Mar 31 08:47:51 2010 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris ) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:47:51 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: Calling all Rocksim guru's! Message-ID: Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: rocketsrfun at msn.com Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:45:34 To: Bob & Ann Yanecek Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! Thanks for the info guys. I am at work right now and will give all your suggestions a shot when I get home tonight... Don Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bob & Ann Yanecek Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:24:09 To: Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! You also need to close ROCKSIM before running COMPENG. One side note that I just ran into: AT has a new E20 econojet motor yet when I search Thrustcurve.org, I find it listed as an E22. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Marty Weiser Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:13 AM To: 'Always Ready Rocketry'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! Don, You have to run the COMPENG program in the Rocksim program folder to convert the .eng files into the engine database file that Rocksim uses. The .eng files are text files that can be edited in a plain text editor like notepad.? However, be careful when doing so since any little error will cause the COMPENG program to abort at that point. The materials and parts files are .csv files as listed. Marty - Rocksim v7.03 user -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:00 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I would try pasting directly into the .CSV file in the program.? Go to the DATA folder in Windows Explorer.? Each category seems to have it's own data file (BTDATA.CSV TCDATA.CSV, etc) for body tube, tube coupler, etc.. I'm sure there is a CSV for motors too.. (?) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Don Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:44 AM To: Rockets NW Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I'm having the hardest time trying to load different engine files into Rocksim 6.9 (Yes I know this is an older version.) So far this is what I've done: 1. Downloaded Engine files 2. Unzipped engine files 3. Opened Rocksim from the Program files on the hard drive 4. Opened the engine data file and finally, cut and pasted to data file. Still not working. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Don _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From fred at azinger.com Wed Mar 31 08:51:52 2010 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:51:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: Calling all Rocksim guru's! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005401cad0ea$150e64f0$3f2b2ed0$@com> Bob -- Disagree -- you just need to tell Rocsim to reload the engine file after running CompEng -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Don Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:48 AM To: Rockets NW Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: Calling all Rocksim guru's! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: rocketsrfun at msn.com Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:45:34 To: Bob & Ann Yanecek Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! Thanks for the info guys. I am at work right now and will give all your suggestions a shot when I get home tonight... Don Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bob & Ann Yanecek Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:24:09 To: Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! You also need to close ROCKSIM before running COMPENG. One side note that I just ran into: AT has a new E20 econojet motor yet when I search Thrustcurve.org, I find it listed as an E22. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Marty Weiser Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:13 AM To: 'Always Ready Rocketry'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! Don, You have to run the COMPENG program in the Rocksim program folder to convert the .eng files into the engine database file that Rocksim uses. The .eng files are text files that can be edited in a plain text editor like notepad.? However, be careful when doing so since any little error will cause the COMPENG program to abort at that point. The materials and parts files are .csv files as listed. Marty - Rocksim v7.03 user -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:00 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I would try pasting directly into the .CSV file in the program.? Go to the DATA folder in Windows Explorer.? Each category seems to have it's own data file (BTDATA.CSV TCDATA.CSV, etc) for body tube, tube coupler, etc.. I'm sure there is a CSV for motors too.. (?) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Don Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:44 AM To: Rockets NW Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I'm having the hardest time trying to load different engine files into Rocksim 6.9 (Yes I know this is an older version.) So far this is what I've done: 1. Downloaded Engine files 2. Unzipped engine files 3. Opened Rocksim from the Program files on the hard drive 4. Opened the engine data file and finally, cut and pasted to data file. Still not working. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Don _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From ryanbuettner5000 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 08:47:43 2010 From: ryanbuettner5000 at yahoo.com (Ryan Buettner) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] another rocksims quetion Message-ID: <765567.84285.qm@web58604.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Has anyone out there used there rocksims 9 on windows 7?? Is it compatable? are there any issues with loading that I shoud be aware of before I go out get a new computer, and my program don't work with it. From carl at mousetrap.com Wed Mar 31 08:55:49 2010 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:55:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] another rocksims quetion In-Reply-To: <765567.84285.qm@web58604.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <765567.84285.qm@web58604.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ryan - I have been using Rocksim 9 on 64-bit Windows 7 for a while without any problem. - Carl On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Ryan Buettner wrote: > Has anyone out there used there rocksims 9 on windows 7? Is it compatable? > are there any issues with loading that I shoud be aware of before I go out > get a new computer, and my program don't work with it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Wed Mar 31 09:08:50 2010 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (Bryan Whitemarsh) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:08:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] another rocksims quetion In-Reply-To: References: <765567.84285.qm@web58604.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <76A69B60218A416C8F7976BBB810F470@BryanDesktop> Yep. No problem at all on Windows 7 32- or 64- bit. No updates needed. Bryan -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:56 AM To: Ryan Buettner Cc: Rockets Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] another rocksims quetion Ryan - I have been using Rocksim 9 on 64-bit Windows 7 for a while without any problem. - Carl On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Ryan Buettner wrote: > Has anyone out there used there rocksims 9 on windows 7? Is it compatable? > are there any issues with loading that I shoud be aware of before I go > out get a new computer, and my program don't work with it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From absworld at cet.com Wed Mar 31 09:09:04 2010 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:09:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: Calling all Rocksim guru's! In-Reply-To: <005401cad0ea$150e64f0$3f2b2ed0$@com> References: <005401cad0ea$150e64f0$3f2b2ed0$@com> Message-ID: <010b01cad0ec$7d62b2c0$78281840$@com> Figures it was easier than I made it out to be. Thanks! bob -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Fred Azinger Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:52 AM To: 'Don Harris '; 'Rockets NW ' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fw: Calling all Rocksim guru's! Bob -- Disagree -- you just need to tell Rocsim to reload the engine file after running CompEng -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Don Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:48 AM To: Rockets NW Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: Calling all Rocksim guru's! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: rocketsrfun at msn.com Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:45:34 To: Bob & Ann Yanecek Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! Thanks for the info guys. I am at work right now and will give all your suggestions a shot when I get home tonight... Don Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bob & Ann Yanecek Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:24:09 To: Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! You also need to close ROCKSIM before running COMPENG. One side note that I just ran into: AT has a new E20 econojet motor yet when I search Thrustcurve.org, I find it listed as an E22. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Marty Weiser Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:13 AM To: 'Always Ready Rocketry'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! Don, You have to run the COMPENG program in the Rocksim program folder to convert the .eng files into the engine database file that Rocksim uses. The .eng files are text files that can be edited in a plain text editor like notepad.? However, be careful when doing so since any little error will cause the COMPENG program to abort at that point. The materials and parts files are .csv files as listed. Marty - Rocksim v7.03 user -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:00 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I would try pasting directly into the .CSV file in the program.? Go to the DATA folder in Windows Explorer.? Each category seems to have it's own data file (BTDATA.CSV TCDATA.CSV, etc) for body tube, tube coupler, etc.. I'm sure there is a CSV for motors too.. (?) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Don Harris Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:44 AM To: Rockets NW Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! I'm having the hardest time trying to load different engine files into Rocksim 6.9 (Yes I know this is an older version.) So far this is what I've done: 1. Downloaded Engine files 2. Unzipped engine files 3. Opened Rocksim from the Program files on the hard drive 4. Opened the engine data file and finally, cut and pasted to data file. Still not working. Any ideas would be much appreciated. Don _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Wed Mar 31 09:18:48 2010 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:18:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] another rocksims quetion In-Reply-To: <765567.84285.qm@web58604.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <765567.84285.qm@web58604.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004801cad0ed$d8ec93d0$8ac5bb70$@com> I am running it on Win7. Dumb security message on startup every time, but works fine. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Buettner Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:48 AM To: Rockets Subject: [RocketsNW] another rocksims quetion Has anyone out there used there rocksims 9 on windows 7?? Is it compatable? are there any issues with loading that I shoud be aware of before I go out get a new computer, and my program don't work with it. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From stevet19759 at comcast.net Wed Mar 31 09:21:46 2010 From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:21:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BB3769A.1010304@comcast.net> I'm not sure about 6.9, but I think it had a separate "engine compiler" program that you used to collect all your RASP files into an engine database file in some internal format. Rocksim read that file once on startup, and there was also a "reload engine database" item in one of the menus somewhere. Look for an engine compiler program in the same folder as your main Rocksim binary. -ST Always Ready Rocketry wrote: > I would try pasting directly into the .CSV file in the program. Go to the > DATA folder in Windows Explorer. Each category seems to have it's own data > file (BTDATA.CSV TCDATA.CSV, etc) for body tube, tube coupler, etc.. I'm > sure there is a CSV for motors too.. (?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Don Harris > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:44 AM > To: Rockets NW > Subject: [RocketsNW] Calling all Rocksim guru's! > > > > I'm having the hardest time trying to load different engine files into > Rocksim 6.9 (Yes I know this is an older version.) So far this is what I've > done: > > 1. Downloaded Engine files > > 2. Unzipped engine files > > 3. Opened Rocksim from the Program files on the hard drive > > 4. Opened the engine data file > > and finally, cut and pasted to data file. > > Still not working. Any ideas would be much appreciated. > > > Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From ryanbuettner5000 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 09:37:42 2010 From: ryanbuettner5000 at yahoo.com (Ryan Buettner) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] another rocksims quetion In-Reply-To: <004801cad0ed$d8ec93d0$8ac5bb70$@com> References: <765567.84285.qm@web58604.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <004801cad0ed$d8ec93d0$8ac5bb70$@com> Message-ID: <366593.75639.qm@web58601.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Cool thanks guys,?see ya in a couple months.? :^}? ? ________________________________ From: Scott Berfield To: Ryan Buettner ; Rockets Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 9:18:48 AM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] another rocksims quetion I am running it on Win7. Dumb security message on startup every time, but works fine. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Buettner Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:48 AM To: Rockets Subject: [RocketsNW] another rocksims quetion Has anyone out there used there rocksims 9 on windows 7?? Is it compatable? are there any issues with loading that I shoud be aware of before I go out get a new computer, and my program don't work with it. ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From t.j.doll at att.net Wed Mar 31 11:35:46 2010 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:35:46 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Streamer Recovery Message-ID: <033120101835.13377.4BB39602000117030000344122230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Another NARAM question - one of the events is 'B' streamer duration. I've heard there are some magic dimensions/ratios you want to use for the streamer for duration events, but I don't recall what they were. Anyone out there that can help out? TIA Tim Doll From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 12:28:53 2010 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:28:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Streamer Recovery In-Reply-To: <033120101835.13377.4BB39602000117030000344122230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <033120101835.13377.4BB39602000117030000344122230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Tim I think you should check out this video http://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocketry_Videos/Rocketry_Video_35.asp As I understand it this is the only modification allowed by the rules for TARC which is probably the same for all the other streamer uses. This deals with Mylar but the only mod on Ripstop is to reinforce the edges. If you are looking for a good streamer decent rate then try EMRR's Calculator and tools page at http://www.rocketreviews.com/tools.shtml Chris Guenther On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:35 AM, wrote: > Another NARAM question - one of the events is 'B' streamer duration. I've > heard there are some magic dimensions/ratios you want to use for the > streamer for duration events, but I don't recall what they were. > > Anyone out there that can help out? > > TIA > > Tim Doll > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Wed Mar 31 15:46:43 2010 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:46:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging Cameron Tinder References: <4BB3769A.1010304@comcast.net> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300571@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Cameron, My students have questions about the Tender Descender. Please ping me off list. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 From rnech at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 18:48:47 2010 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT] Star Trek line of perfumes and colognes Message-ID: <403418.92818.qm@web111405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Step right up and get your Star Trek scents here! ? The first one is called "Ponn Farr". http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Perfume-Ponn-Farr/dp/B002HMLY0Y/ ? Product Description: Drive him wild! Vulcan Pon Farr... perfume from the Star Trek universe. Because having is not always as pleasing as wanting! ? PON FARR Straight from the planet Vulcan, this 50 ml container of Star Trek Pon Farr Perfume is all you need to drive your man (or men) wild. Because having is not always as pleasing as wanting! Pon Farr Perfume for women is a refreshing fragrance that's both invigorating and dramatic, with light, clean notes of citrus, blackcurrant, lotus blossom, and water lily. With base notes from sandalwood, peach, and mulberry, Pon Farr is perfect for those bright sunny days and warm summer nights spent together at the beach, around the fire, or simply watching your favorite affaire d'honneur. Sharp and aggressive, simple yet exotic, use it with care! Pon Farr: In the Star Trek universe, Vulcan males and females go into heat every seven years, going into a blood fever, becoming violent, and finally dying if they don't mate with someone with whom they're empathically bonded. ? It's a perfume for women "who want to drive their men wild". My question is..given what we know about the ritual of ponn farr, is a woman only supposed to wear it every 7 years? ? ? The next offerings are both men's fragrances. The first is "Tiberius". http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Fragrance-Tiberius-Cologne/dp/B002HMQS14/ref=pd_sbs_t_2 ? Product Description: Both the Tiberius and Red Shirts are 100ml (3.4 oz) quality colognes built from long lasting fragrances for men. Explorer. Soldier. Time-Traveler. Diplomat. Legend. Captain James Tiberius Kirk: The most famous and highly decorated starship captain in Starfleet history. TIBERIUS Cologne for men is a casual yet commanding cologne spiked with freshness and sensuality. Citron, black pepper, and cedar create refreshingly clear top notes, layered over warm vanilla, white musk and sandalwood base notes. TIBERIUS Cologne for men is difficult to define and impossible to refuse. In any universe. Inspored by legend-take TIBERIUS on your next mission and be transported to new worlds of sensual discovery.? Boldy go. ? ? My quesion: Why would anyone want to smell like William Shatner? Trek fan: Dude, have you seen the girls Jim Kirk pulled? Who wouldn?t want to smell like him? ? ? The third offering is called...and I am not making this up..."Red Shirt". http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Cologne-Red-Shirt/dp/B002E1EAU4/ref=pd_sbs_t_1 ? Product?Description:? "Put yourself in the line of fire. RED SHIRT Cologne is made for the young, modern man of the galaxy who doesn't hesitate; who revels in being alive today. RED SHIRT Cologne instills confidence, showing the universe your strength, your valor, your devotion to living each day as though it could be your last. Red Shirt Cologne: Because Tomorrow May Never Come." ? ? Oh I just LOVE the message this one sends..."Wear this cologne and DIE!" ? Od?or of Nerd?? I?m waiting for Eau De Klingon or Rigelian Bloodworm! I just thought I'd lighten the mood a bit with this offering. Thoughts? From nat at natmote.net Wed Mar 31 20:37:39 2010 From: nat at natmote.net (Nat Mote) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:37:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reinforcing Quantum Tube Message-ID: Hi all, I've been lurking on this list for some time, but haven't had a presence on it. I'm the president of the Ingraham Rocketry club, and am participating in TARC for the third year this year and am also on Ingraham's SLI team. Anyway, I have a Quantum Tube Callisto with a 38 mm motor mount that I flew for my Junior L1, and as my 18th birthday is Memorial Day (the last day of FITS), I'm considering making a Level 2 attempt. Because I'm a broke high school student, I'd like to see if I can't cert on my Callisto. PML says you *can* fly it on a J350, which is the lowest average thrust J that I could find for a 38 mm casing, but it's not exactly advisable. Having witnessed a number of fins failing on high-stress flights, including a particularly memorable one on an L2 attempt by a fellow student, I most definitely want to reinforce the fins somehow. My questions to you are 1 -- what is the best way to reinforce fins on a QT airframe? Is it any different from reinforcing them on a phenolic airframe (eg fiberglass or carbonfiber)? 2 -- How strong is the Quantum Tube itself? Will I need to fiberglass the length of it, or is that overkill? Thanks, Nat Mote From rocketsrfun at msn.com Wed Mar 31 20:55:29 2010 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:55:29 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim Engine Download Message-ID: I'll try to explain this step by step with the help I received for all who gave me input: I opened my Certified Motors file that I downloaded to my desktop from www.Thrustcurve.org , then I minimized it. Opened my Rocksim program: C:\Program Files\Apogee\Rocksim6\Data (Rocksim6 is just my version) Maximized my Certified Motors file (the one I minimized earlier) and moved it where I could see them both (Rocksim Data File) Copied and Pasted my motors of choice to the "Data File" I closed the Certified Motors file the went to the Rocksim6\Program file. I opened the COMPENG MFC Application. Then I moved the engines I wanted to the "Engine Data to be Compiled" box. Compiled it, hit o.k., then exited. Opened up my Rocksim program file (the one with my project). Clicked on the File tab and then clicked on "Reload Engine Data." Opened my project for launch prep, clicked on the engine list and "Viola"!! All the motors I downloaded where there. Thanks guys for all your help. Don From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 20:47:20 2010 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:47:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reinforcing Quantum Tube References: Message-ID: <8BD9E6B74FCC44DAACFCE37DA9858C96@LaptopKrausert> Hi Nat, Stay below mach with QT, and you'll be fine. If you're using a PML kit with through hole fin mounting, just epoxy all 6 points of contact for each fin. QT is rating for mach 0.85%. Meaning stay out of the zone. I've flown an Ariel (modified) and Amraam on J350s. No issues. No glassing. Just epoxy at all points. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nat Mote" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:37 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Reinforcing Quantum Tube > Hi all, > I've been lurking on this list for some time, but haven't had a presence > on > it. I'm the president of the Ingraham Rocketry club, and am participating > in > TARC for the third year this year and am also on Ingraham's SLI team. > > Anyway, I have a Quantum Tube Callisto with a 38 mm motor mount that I > flew > for my Junior L1, and as my 18th birthday is Memorial Day (the last day of > FITS), I'm considering making a Level 2 attempt. Because I'm a broke high > school student, I'd like to see if I can't cert on my Callisto. PML says > you > *can* fly it on a J350, which is the lowest average thrust J that I could > find for a 38 mm casing, but it's not exactly advisable. Having witnessed > a > number of fins failing on high-stress flights, including a particularly > memorable one on an L2 attempt by a fellow student, I most definitely want > to reinforce the fins somehow. > > My questions to you are 1 -- what is the best way to reinforce fins on a > QT > airframe? Is it any different from reinforcing them on a phenolic airframe > (eg fiberglass or carbonfiber)? 2 -- How strong is the Quantum Tube > itself? > Will I need to fiberglass the length of it, or is that overkill? > > Thanks, > Nat Mote > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Wed Mar 31 21:41:31 2010 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:41:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reinforcing Quantum Tube In-Reply-To: <8BD9E6B74FCC44DAACFCE37DA9858C96@LaptopKrausert> References: <8BD9E6B74FCC44DAACFCE37DA9858C96@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <00e801cad155$9a83ba70$cf8b2f50$@net> Nat, If you are comfortable with fiberglassing and your sims indicate going over 0.85 mach I would glass the whole thing. Of course, I glass most rockets so they survive hard landings better. My approach would be to: - Scuff sand the entire thing with 60 grit sandpaper - Cut slightly oversized fiberglass pieces (I suggest 4 - 6 oz/sq yd) that will go from tip-to-tip on the fins - Wipe the fins and BT between them with acetone to remove dust at soften them a bit (not too much) - Apply the glass with good quality epoxy (West Systems, Tap, Aerocon, etc) - make sure you smooth it out to remove all air bubbles - Repeat for the other 2 fin-BT-Fin joints - Trim off all excess glass after cure - easiest a few hours after layup when it is very stiff, but not fully hard. - Scuff sand where the BT glass will overlap the fin glass. Wipe the whole thing with acetone. - Cut a piece of fiberglass of the BT that overlaps the fin glass by at least an inch. Cut 3 slits in the end for the fins. - Apply glass as above on the BT - Fill and sand, repeat, repeat, paint. I like to use a microballons or West System microlight filler in epoxy for a filler - it can be smeared intot eh weave/holes very well by hand. Remember to where good chemical gloves when working with both epoxy and acetone and to include adequate ventilation. Wet sanding cuts down in the dust and the need to protect oneself from the fine, nasty dust. Hopefully, both of these cautions are not needed from your previous training. Of course this will result in an overweight Callisto that will no longer achieve the altitudes before, but it should survive the J350 and perhaps even larger motors. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:47 PM To: Nat Mote; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Reinforcing Quantum Tube Hi Nat, Stay below mach with QT, and you'll be fine. If you're using a PML kit with through hole fin mounting, just epoxy all 6 points of contact for each fin. QT is rating for mach 0.85%. Meaning stay out of the zone. I've flown an Ariel (modified) and Amraam on J350s. No issues. No glassing. Just epoxy at all points. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nat Mote" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:37 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Reinforcing Quantum Tube > Hi all, > I've been lurking on this list for some time, but haven't had a presence > on > it. I'm the president of the Ingraham Rocketry club, and am participating > in > TARC for the third year this year and am also on Ingraham's SLI team. > > Anyway, I have a Quantum Tube Callisto with a 38 mm motor mount that I > flew > for my Junior L1, and as my 18th birthday is Memorial Day (the last day of > FITS), I'm considering making a Level 2 attempt. Because I'm a broke high > school student, I'd like to see if I can't cert on my Callisto. PML says > you > *can* fly it on a J350, which is the lowest average thrust J that I could > find for a 38 mm casing, but it's not exactly advisable. Having witnessed > a > number of fins failing on high-stress flights, including a particularly > memorable one on an L2 attempt by a fellow student, I most definitely want > to reinforce the fins somehow. > > My questions to you are 1 -- what is the best way to reinforce fins on a > QT > airframe? Is it any different from reinforcing them on a phenolic airframe > (eg fiberglass or carbonfiber)? 2 -- How strong is the Quantum Tube > itself? > Will I need to fiberglass the length of it, or is that overkill? > > Thanks, > Nat Mote > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Wed Mar 31 21:46:47 2010 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 04:46:47 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reinforcing Quantum Tube In-Reply-To: <8BD9E6B74FCC44DAACFCE37DA9858C96@LaptopKrausert> References: , <8BD9E6B74FCC44DAACFCE37DA9858C96@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: Nat, Nice job on the SLI flight by the way!!! Very professional prep. First, how close to mach will you be? And for how long? Second, to keep it out of the "mach" range, have you tried simulations with adding weight to it to keep it out of the mach range? I'm not familiar with the Calisto, is it thru the wall construction with the fins? Bill at PSP > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: nat at natmote.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:47:20 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Reinforcing Quantum Tube > > Hi Nat, > Stay below mach with QT, and you'll be fine. If you're using a PML kit with > through hole fin mounting, just epoxy all 6 points of contact for each fin. > > QT is rating for mach 0.85%. Meaning stay out of the zone. I've flown an > Ariel (modified) and Amraam on J350s. No issues. No glassing. Just epoxy at > all points. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nat Mote" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:37 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Reinforcing Quantum Tube > > > > Hi all, > > I've been lurking on this list for some time, but haven't had a presence > > on > > it. I'm the president of the Ingraham Rocketry club, and am participating > > in > > TARC for the third year this year and am also on Ingraham's SLI team. > > > > Anyway, I have a Quantum Tube Callisto with a 38 mm motor mount that I > > flew > > for my Junior L1, and as my 18th birthday is Memorial Day (the last day of > > FITS), I'm considering making a Level 2 attempt. Because I'm a broke high > > school student, I'd like to see if I can't cert on my Callisto. PML says > > you > > *can* fly it on a J350, which is the lowest average thrust J that I could > > find for a 38 mm casing, but it's not exactly advisable. Having witnessed > > a > > number of fins failing on high-stress flights, including a particularly > > memorable one on an L2 attempt by a fellow student, I most definitely want > > to reinforce the fins somehow. > > > > My questions to you are 1 -- what is the best way to reinforce fins on a > > QT > > airframe? Is it any different from reinforcing them on a phenolic airframe > > (eg fiberglass or carbonfiber)? 2 -- How strong is the Quantum Tube > > itself? > > Will I need to fiberglass the length of it, or is that overkill? > > > > Thanks, > > Nat Mote > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >