[RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

Tue Feb 2 14:40:30 PST 2010

That rocket looks very cool!

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Tue, 2/2/10, Jack Anderson <jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Jack Anderson <jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 2:23 PM

I don't know about adding strength, but you can definitely give a rocket a unique appearance by wrapping it in fabric.  The rocket pictured here was wrapped with fiber glass first and then I wrapped it with a layer of thin fabric the same way I would apply fiber glass.  The fabric had a Tiger skin pattern to it.  Close up it really looked impressive, and I didn't have to paint it.
http://www.uroc.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10164/025HF12.jpg

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:20 PM
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

> The type of silk fabric used for draperies (window treatment store) is typically available more durable weaves than those purchased at a fabric store (used to make clothing).
> Be sure that it is 100% silk.
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Cc: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com, "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:25 PM
> 
> 
> This is a very interesting topic.  Interesting enough in fact I want to try it out.  Does anyone have a good source for silk or do I just go to the local fabric store for it.  I do know that on most materials depending on the kind of die used if new fabric may or may not disappear when you apply the epoxy.  I had some great success with an old T-Shirt the wife wanted me to get rid of (I wore it to death).  I applied it like Fiber Glass and the and lost the white in the fabric but retained the graphics I came out great and seems to be about as strong as if I had fiber glassed it even after a few flights and one with a very early deployment in which the delay burned instantly instead of lasting it's 14 seconds.
> 
> Chris Guenther
> NAR L2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Here is an article on silk reinforced epoxies.
> http://jrp.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/25/1/33.pdf
> 
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> 
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:37 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a screenprinter (not SILK screen) as all fabric used in the industry is actually Dacron, or other high strength polyester mesh.
> the "mesh" comes in various counts...110, 140, 200,305...etc. openings per inch when stretched to 20 newtons (because we use the openings to print through).
>  The point I'm tring to make I guess, is that these fabrics are extremely high in tensile strength and applied properly would increase strength and durability
> 
>             Vince Simoneau
> by the way I will soon (3-4 weeks) be ready to reproduce water-slide, vinyl, Mylar decals and graphics on a one-off basis.
> I also can print T-shirts, jackets and hats as needed for groups and schools. Not a backyard operation...just getting our own shop up and running.
>              I can be reached by e-mail or 425-346-0295
> 
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:26 -0800
>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> 
>> My wife tends to think that I have come up with some of the weirdest ideas she has ever heard; so you may be on to something! 8^{)
>> 
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>> 
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> 
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:50 PM
>> 
>> 
>> You'll never know until you try it.  Some of the most significant advances
>> in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.
>> +McG+
>> 
>> 
>> > I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation > is
>> > ongoing.
>> >
>> > However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands > were
>> > stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single
>> > skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear
>> > about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes and Samari armor made from
>> > silk.
>> >
>> > It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some
>> > further investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an
>> > original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of
>> > fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.
>> >
>> > Sam Grado
>> > TRA L2
>> >
>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >
>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >
>> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> > To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > Is there some indication that silk provides the same
>> > strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Well that is what I was considering.
>> >>
>> >> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard >> seemed
>> >> affordable compared to CF cloth.
>> >>
>> >> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in >> airframe
>> >> and fin lay-ups.
>> >>
>> >> Sam Grado
>> >> TRA L2
>> >>
>> >> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >>
>> >> sales at pvconly.com
>> >> http://www.pvconly.com
>> >> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >>
>> >> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
>> >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> >> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
>> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sam,
>> >> Why not test it?  Newspaper and white glue work pretty well >> structurally
>> >> (Jr. High science project).
>> >> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
>> >> multiple layers in different directions.
>> >>
>> >> Hmmm.......
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>> >>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> >>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sam Grado
>> >>> TRA L2
>> >>>
>> >>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >>>
>> >>> sales at pvconly.com
>> >>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> >>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >>>
>> >>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> >>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> >>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sam,
>> >>>
>> >>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>> >>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>> >>> for strength?
>> >>>
>> >>> Dave
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Sam Grado
>> >>> > TRA L2
>> >>> >
>> >>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> >>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> >>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> - Dave
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Rockets mailing list
>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets