From appusher at q.com  Mon Feb  1 01:48:24 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:48:24 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] AeroTech decals
In-Reply-To: <C18DDA1A1710426DA2C54463E1DFE166@LaptopKrausert>
References: <003201caa2fc$acd32ee0$06798ca0$@com>,
	<C18DDA1A1710426DA2C54463E1DFE166@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <COL111-W19A8E0DCD6C86452EF864EDC580@phx.gbl>


The decals are available from aertotech for $9.95.  A call to Diane might just produce those image files.  She IS "THE Magic Wand Waver"!

I'll give it a  try tomorrow morning.  Oh Wait.  It is tomorrow morning. She won't be in till 8 so ....until then......stay tuned.   

 

I'm doing a 3" upscale  out of Blue tube.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> To: johnhawkins at wavecable.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:46:36 -0800
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] AeroTech decals
> 
> John,
> Are you doing an upscale Mustang? Sadly I no decals. But this became my 
> son's favorite rocket for a long time. Dave Bradley handed him an Aerotech 
> catalog, and he moved in on the performance stats. His Mustang has flown 15 
> times, mostly on G64's. I'm looking at his Mustang right now. Retired, as he 
> puts it. But ready to fly.
> 
> An upscale would be cool. Keep me or us updated.
> 
> I bet if you called Aerotech, they'd give you the image files.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Hawkins" <johnhawkins at wavecable.com>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 9:09 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] AeroTech decals
> 
> 
> > Hi
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone out there had a set of AeroTech mustang decals
> > that I may borrow to have up scaled.
> >
> > Please let me know off the list if you have a set I may borrow from you. 
> > or
> > even buy if need be.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From vonrang at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 04:56:05 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 04:56:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
Message-ID: <112667.90326.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets


      

From vonrang at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 07:33:48 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e41002010640m13831b2cpe4a96148df6565f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <511971.81476.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Yes, silk fabric?for axial flexture and sheer strength.


Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM


Sam,

I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
for strength?

Dave

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
>
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave



      

From terry at mooreread.com  Mon Feb  1 10:18:49 2010
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 10:18:49 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA's plans to return to the Moon are dead
In-Reply-To: <6ddf8ed90e4a6a773fd9093768f7a811.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <333687.61639.qm@web111412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1756c35306b720060e5688a95289478b.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<2D822ABA-F68D-44D3-8D08-2550627CDCB4@mooreread.com>
	<6ddf8ed90e4a6a773fd9093768f7a811.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <B9D385E6-0E03-4E34-B4A8-B86BF018CE64@mooreread.com>

Looks like we may yet find out what SpaceX can do : http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/01/president-obamas-nasa-budget-unveiled/

On Jan 28, 2010, at 11:01 PM, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:

> It's the White House/Congress/NASA triad that is dysfunctional.  The
> traditional aerospace giants have become addicted to generous quantities
> of money from the federal teat and thereby force NASA to overspend.  It's
> one big orgy of wasteful spending, flawed plans, and inability to complete
> a plan once adopted.  The start-up companies, not yet having had enough
> time to become ossified and largely not directly under the control of
> Congress or the White House can do things much more efficiently.  Just
> compare the development of Ares 1 and Falcon 5.  No contest.
> 
> If I had the White House setting the goals for a 1/2A model rocket
> project, NASA overseeing it and the big aerospace companies doing the work
> it would cost $10 million, be ten years late, fly once and be proclaimed a
> huge success.
> 
> NASA can still do unmanned probes pretty well but the White House
> /Congress /NASA triad just can't develop a space transportation system
> within a reasonable budget.  The startups keep politics out of it and do
> more than an order of magnitude better.  May be sad, but true.
> +McG+
> 
> 
>> That question is simply, could one nasa contractor do better than another
>> ?  Blame lockheed-martin and cost+profit contracts rather than Nasa.
>> 
>> On Jan 27, 2010, at 8:58 PM, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
>> 
>>> "NASA has already spent more than $3 billion on Ares I and more than $5
>>> billion on the rest of Constellation."
>>> 
>>> $8 billion and so far one measly one-stage test bed launch.  That's
>>> EXACTLY why Ares needs to be euthanized.
>>> 
>>> Now, what kind of results do you suppose SpaceX could get for that kind
>>> of
>>> money?  Bigelow?  The two together?
>>> 
>>> I'm sorry, NASA has become a Brontosaurus in an age of fast, furry
>>> mammals.
>>> +McG+
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/os-no-moon-for-nasa-20100126,0,2770904.story
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses
>> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>> 
>> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
>> privileged material, and is intended solely
>> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
>> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
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>> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
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>> the sender and delete the copy you received.
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>> Thank You!
>> 
>> 
> 
> 


--
This message has been scanned for viruses
and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.

NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
privileged material, and is intended solely
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If you are not the recipient, and believe that
you have received this in error, please notify
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Thank You!


From appusher at q.com  Mon Feb  1 10:53:26 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:53:26 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <511971.81476.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <6bc920e41002010640m13831b2cpe4a96148df6565f4@mail.gmail.com>,
	<511971.81476.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <COL111-W52D160863D0680F1604937DC580@phx.gbl>


Sam,

Why not test it?  Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally (Jr. High science project).

I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in multiple layers in different directions.

 

Hmmm.......





 
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
> 
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
> 
> 
> Sam,
> 
> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
> for strength?
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
> >
> > Sam Grado
> > TRA L2
> >
> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >
> > sales at pvconly.com
> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From sb at berfield.com  Mon Feb  1 11:07:58 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:07:58 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W52D160863D0680F1604937DC580@phx.gbl>
References: <6bc920e41002010640m13831b2cpe4a96148df6565f4@mail.gmail.com>,
	<511971.81476.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<COL111-W52D160863D0680F1604937DC580@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <005a01caa371$e267b600$a7372200$@com>

Never tried it. In some poking around on the Web, it looks like it would be
expected to be pretty tough material. Probably more flex than glass.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:53 AM
To: vonrang at yahoo.com; Dave Randall; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups


Sam,

Why not test it?  Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
(Jr. High science project).

I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
multiple layers in different directions.

 

Hmmm.......





 
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
> 
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
> 
> 
> Sam,
> 
> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
> for strength?
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
> >
> > Sam Grado
> > TRA L2
> >
> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >
> > sales at pvconly.com
> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  




From CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us  Mon Feb  1 11:16:45 2010
From: CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us (CAMERON Kenneth A)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:16:45 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
References: <6bc920e41002010640m13831b2cpe4a96148df6565f4@mail.gmail.com>,
	<511971.81476.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<COL111-W52D160863D0680F1604937DC580@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <58498AC4FB74D74BB2E653BACAC22C10251D40CD@DEQMAIL.deq.state.or.us>

Greetings
While not directly tied to rocketry, I can attest to the fact that silk
can increase resistance to flexing in some instances.  As a traditional
archer who teaches folks how to make wooden longbows and flatbows, I've
used silk as backing on an English longbow and it increased the pull
weight (i.e. stiffness) from 55 pounds to 75 pounds.  This was with two
layers of raw silk cloth attached with carpenters glue.  I also know
that multi-layer varnished silk was used as light armor (though I prefer
chain mail, I teach classes in that, too).  Imagine the look on the
clerk's face at the fabric store when you ask if she knows how well silk
stands up to speeds above mach one.
Ken Cameron
Brewer to the Gods of Valhalla (at least that's who the said they were)

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:53 AM
To: vonrang at yahoo.com; Dave Randall; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups


Sam,

Why not test it?  Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
(Jr. High science project).

I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
multiple layers in different directions.

 

Hmmm.......





 
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
> 
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
> 
> 
> Sam,
> 
> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
> for strength?
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
> >
> > Sam Grado
> > TRA L2
> >
> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >
> > sales at pvconly.com
> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Feb  1 11:39:35 2010
From: greg at blastzone.com (greg at blastzone.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:39:35 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <58498AC4FB74D74BB2E653BACAC22C10251D40CD@DEQMAIL.deq.state.or.us>
References: <6bc920e41002010640m13831b2cpe4a96148df6565f4@mail.gmail.com>, 
	<511971.81476.qm@web52202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<COL111-W52D160863D0680F1604937DC580@phx.gbl>
	<58498AC4FB74D74BB2E653BACAC22C10251D40CD@DEQMAIL.deq.state.or.us>
Message-ID: <a9c3d31aa7066b48df921a6ce69bad97@mx1.blastzone.com>

So whats the upside here?  Is silk less expensive than fiberglass or other
composites?  Better in some way?  Or is this just a desire to try something
different for fun?


On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:16:45 -0800, "CAMERON Kenneth A"
<CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us> wrote:
> Greetings
> While not directly tied to rocketry, I can attest to the fact that silk
> can increase resistance to flexing in some instances.  As a traditional
> archer who teaches folks how to make wooden longbows and flatbows, I've
> used silk as backing on an English longbow and it increased the pull
> weight (i.e. stiffness) from 55 pounds to 75 pounds.  This was with two
> layers of raw silk cloth attached with carpenters glue.  I also know
> that multi-layer varnished silk was used as light armor (though I prefer
> chain mail, I teach classes in that, too).  Imagine the look on the
> clerk's face at the fabric store when you ask if she knows how well silk
> stands up to speeds above mach one.
> Ken Cameron
> Brewer to the Gods of Valhalla (at least that's who the said they were)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:53 AM
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com; Dave Randall; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> 
> Sam,
> 
> Why not test it?  Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
> (Jr. High science project).
> 
> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> multiple layers in different directions.
> 
>  
> 
> Hmmm.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> 
>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>> 
>> 
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>> 
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> 
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Sam,
>> 
>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>> for strength?
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>> >
>> > Sam Grado
>> > TRA L2
>> >
>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >
>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> - Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>  		 	   		  
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From vonrang at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 11:47:46 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W52D160863D0680F1604937DC580@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <968611.87346.qm@web52203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Well that is what I was considering. 
?
There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard seemed affordable compared to CF cloth.
?
I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in airframe and fin lay-ups.

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:


From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM




Sam,
Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally (Jr. High science project).
I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in multiple layers in different directions.
?
Hmmm.......





?
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> Yes, silk fabric?for axial flexture and sheer strength.
> 
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
> 
> 
> Sam,
> 
> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
> for strength?
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
> >
> > Sam Grado
> > TRA L2
> >
> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >
> > sales at pvconly.com
> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 



      

From vonrang at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 11:49:28 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:49:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <005a01caa371$e267b600$a7372200$@com>
Message-ID: <915474.16407.qm@web52204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Possibly less prone to embrittlement over seaglass cloth???

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com> wrote:


From: Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: "'Bill Munds'" <appusher at q.com>, vonrang at yahoo.com, "'Dave Randall'" <dmrandall at gmail.com>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:07 PM


Never tried it. In some poking around on the Web, it looks like it would be
expected to be pretty tough material. Probably more flex than glass.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:53 AM
To: vonrang at yahoo.com; Dave Randall; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups


Sam,

Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
(Jr. High science project).

I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
multiple layers in different directions.



Hmmm.......






> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
> 
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
> 
> 
> Sam,
> 
> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
> for strength?
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
> >
> > Sam Grado
> > TRA L2
> >
> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >
> > sales at pvconly.com
> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      

From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Feb  1 11:51:33 2010
From: greg at blastzone.com (greg at blastzone.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:51:33 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <968611.87346.qm@web52203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <968611.87346.qm@web52203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e601b6cd80a80720386ef6163c798e4b@mx1.blastzone.com>

Is there some indication that silk provides the same
strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber?  


On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Well that is what I was considering. 
> ?
> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard seemed
> affordable compared to CF cloth.
> ?
> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in airframe
> and fin lay-ups.
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam,
> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
> (Jr. High science project).
> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> multiple layers in different directions.
> ?
> Hmmm.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> 
>> Yes, silk fabric?for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>> 
>> 
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>> 
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> 
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Sam,
>> 
>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>> for strength?
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>> >
>> > Sam Grado
>> > TRA L2
>> >
>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >
>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> - Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From vonrang at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 11:53:35 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:53:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <a9c3d31aa7066b48df921a6ce69bad97@mx1.blastzone.com>
Message-ID: <231236.41114.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Silk is less expensive than CF. About the same to a little less in cost than some grades of seaglass cloth. It may possess better flexural strength than 'glass cloth with less overall weight. Just something to explore in view of the cost of CF. Could be a good augment to CF.

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:


From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: "CAMERON Kenneth A" <CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:39 PM


So whats the upside here?? Is silk less expensive than fiberglass or other
composites?? Better in some way?? Or is this just a desire to try something
different for fun?


On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:16:45 -0800, "CAMERON Kenneth A"
<CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us> wrote:
> Greetings
> While not directly tied to rocketry, I can attest to the fact that silk
> can increase resistance to flexing in some instances.? As a traditional
> archer who teaches folks how to make wooden longbows and flatbows, I've
> used silk as backing on an English longbow and it increased the pull
> weight (i.e. stiffness) from 55 pounds to 75 pounds.? This was with two
> layers of raw silk cloth attached with carpenters glue.? I also know
> that multi-layer varnished silk was used as light armor (though I prefer
> chain mail, I teach classes in that, too).? Imagine the look on the
> clerk's face at the fabric store when you ask if she knows how well silk
> stands up to speeds above mach one.
> Ken Cameron
> Brewer to the Gods of Valhalla (at least that's who the said they were)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:53 AM
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com; Dave Randall; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> 
> Sam,
> 
> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
> (Jr. High science project).
> 
> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> multiple layers in different directions.
> 
>? 
> 
> Hmmm.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>? 
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> 
>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>> 
>> 
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>> 
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> 
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Sam,
>> 
>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>> for strength?
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>> >
>> > Sam Grado
>> > TRA L2
>> >
>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >
>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> - Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>???
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Mon Feb  1 12:54:45 2010
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:54:45 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <231236.41114.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <a9c3d31aa7066b48df921a6ce69bad97@mx1.blastzone.com>
	<231236.41114.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00bb01caa380$c9b627e0$5d2277a0$@net>

Silk may or may not be a good reinforcement material, but don't think of it
as a replacement for CF or even glass.  Think of it as a replacement for
nylon - it was used for parachutes and women were stuck with nylon hose
during WWII.

I did a quick look and found the attached webpage with some mechanical data
on spider silk http://www.tiem.utk.edu/~mbeals/spider.html.  I know this is
not the moth silk used to make silk fabric, but the properties are probably
in the same ballpark.  As you can see the modulus reaches a peak of about
280 MPa, but the strain at failure is nearly 500%!

Depending upon the source material and the heat treatment carbon fiber can
have a modulus form about 100 to 500 GPa - about a 1000 times higher than
the spider silk.  It is also stronger with a tensile strength from about 2
to 5.5 GPa while the spider silk was around 1.3 GPa.  However, the strain at
failure for CF is generally very low - less than 10% is common.

Kevlar has a modulus of 80 - 186 GPa, a breaking strength of 3.4 - 4.1 GPa,
and strain at failure of 2 - 4% depending upon the grade.

The glass fiber used in cloth has a modulus of 80 - 90 GPa and a strength of
2 (e-glass) to 4 (s-glass) GPa.  Strain at failure will be very small as
well.

Nylon-66 has a modulus of 1.7 - 3.4 GPa, strength of 40 - 80 MPa, and
elongation at failure of up to 300% depending upon treatment.

In summary I would think that the silk would be very good where you want to
reinforce with some flexibility (i.e. the longbow example).  I can also see
it on some smaller rockets with a somewhat flexible matrix to give some
reinforcement that gives - i.e. a 29 - 38 mm machbuster or boosted dart.
Finally, a nice patterned silk would look really cool with the correct clear
matrix.  I wonder if you could spray on a good automotive clear coat and lay
it on smoothly before it sets?

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Sam Grado
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 11:54 AM
To: CAMERON Kenneth A; greg at blastzone.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

Silk is less expensive than CF. About the same to a little less in cost than
some grades of seaglass cloth. It may possess better flexural strength than
'glass cloth with less overall weight. Just something to explore in view of
the cost of CF. Could be a good augment to CF.

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:


From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: "CAMERON Kenneth A" <CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:39 PM


So whats the upside here?? Is silk less expensive than fiberglass or other
composites?? Better in some way?? Or is this just a desire to try something
different for fun?


On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:16:45 -0800, "CAMERON Kenneth A"
<CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us> wrote:
> Greetings
> While not directly tied to rocketry, I can attest to the fact that silk
> can increase resistance to flexing in some instances.? As a traditional
> archer who teaches folks how to make wooden longbows and flatbows, I've
> used silk as backing on an English longbow and it increased the pull
> weight (i.e. stiffness) from 55 pounds to 75 pounds.? This was with two
> layers of raw silk cloth attached with carpenters glue.? I also know
> that multi-layer varnished silk was used as light armor (though I prefer
> chain mail, I teach classes in that, too).? Imagine the look on the
> clerk's face at the fabric store when you ask if she knows how well silk
> stands up to speeds above mach one.
> Ken Cameron
> Brewer to the Gods of Valhalla (at least that's who the said they were)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:53 AM
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com; Dave Randall; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> 
> Sam,
> 
> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
> (Jr. High science project).
> 
> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> multiple layers in different directions.
> 
>? 
> 
> Hmmm.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>? 
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> 
>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>> 
>> 
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>> 
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> 
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Sam,
>> 
>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>> for strength?
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>> >
>> > Sam Grado
>> > TRA L2
>> >
>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >
>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> - Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>???
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From cpovercg at rocketmail.com  Mon Feb  1 14:33:43 2010
From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:33:43 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <231236.41114.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <a9c3d31aa7066b48df921a6ce69bad97@mx1.blastzone.com><231236.41114.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29949137-1265063564-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1124404183-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

This may be all well and good, just make sure to get something "silky" for the Mrs!  Especially if one is going to be "dressing" your rockets in silk!  It may be cheaper than CF but that is little consolation when one starts cuttin' up the summer PJ's and gets caught!  ;-o
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:53:35 
To: CAMERON Kenneth A<CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us>; <greg at blastzone.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

Silk is less expensive than CF. About the same to a little less in cost than some grades of seaglass cloth. It may possess better flexural strength than 'glass cloth with less overall weight. Just something to explore in view of the cost of CF. Could be a good augment to CF.

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:


From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: "CAMERON Kenneth A" <CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:39 PM


So whats the upside here?? Is silk less expensive than fiberglass or other
composites?? Better in some way?? Or is this just a desire to try something
different for fun?


On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:16:45 -0800, "CAMERON Kenneth A"
<CAMERON.Kenneth at deq.state.or.us> wrote:
> Greetings
> While not directly tied to rocketry, I can attest to the fact that silk
> can increase resistance to flexing in some instances.? As a traditional
> archer who teaches folks how to make wooden longbows and flatbows, I've
> used silk as backing on an English longbow and it increased the pull
> weight (i.e. stiffness) from 55 pounds to 75 pounds.? This was with two
> layers of raw silk cloth attached with carpenters glue.? I also know
> that multi-layer varnished silk was used as light armor (though I prefer
> chain mail, I teach classes in that, too).? Imagine the look on the
> clerk's face at the fabric store when you ask if she knows how well silk
> stands up to speeds above mach one.
> Ken Cameron
> Brewer to the Gods of Valhalla (at least that's who the said they were)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 10:53 AM
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com; Dave Randall; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> 
> Sam,
> 
> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
> (Jr. High science project).
> 
> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> multiple layers in different directions.
> 
>? 
> 
> Hmmm.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>? 
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> 
>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>> 
>> 
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>> 
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> 
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Sam,
>> 
>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>> for strength?
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>> >
>> > Sam Grado
>> > TRA L2
>> >
>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >
>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> - Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>_______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? 
>_______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>???
> 
>_______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From vonrang at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 15:33:11 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:33:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <e601b6cd80a80720386ef6163c798e4b@mx1.blastzone.com>
Message-ID: <593384.47892.qm@web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation is ongoing.
?
However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands were stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes?and Samari armor made from silk.
?
It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some further?investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:


From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM


Is there some indication that silk provides the same
strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber?? 


On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Well that is what I was considering. 
> ?
> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard seemed
> affordable compared to CF cloth.
> ?
> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in airframe
> and fin lay-ups.
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sam,
> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
> (Jr. High science project).
> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> multiple layers in different directions.
> ?
> Hmmm.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> 
>> Yes, silk fabric?for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>> 
>> 
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>> 
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> 
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Sam,
>> 
>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>> for strength?
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>> >
>> > Sam Grado
>> > TRA L2
>> >
>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >
>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> - Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>? ? ???
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 


      

From padapolis at hotmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:40:30 2010
From: padapolis at hotmail.com (Paul Bowers)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:40:30 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
Message-ID: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl>


What data do you record in your flight logs?
And what do you use to record your flight data?  (Scrap Paper, Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
 
I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high power rockets.  I want to get into good data collection habits now, that way when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least look like I know what I'm doing.  For me a software solution would be the most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to it.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/

From rnech at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 15:58:39 2010
From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:58:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
Message-ID: <794128.70231.qm@web111405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/02/sledding_fail_clarkston_man_ho.html


Sledding fail: Independence Township man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes


By Jonathan Oosting | MLive.com 
February 01, 2010, 1:40PM



Calling to mind any number of Home Improvement episodes, police say a 62-year-old Independence Township man was hospitalized Sunday after strapping a homemade rocket to his back while sledding.

Fox 2 reports the rocket -- a combination of gunpowder, match heads and gasoline stuffed in a motorcycle muffler -- exploded during a downhill ride at a party he hosted.

?Apparently, he has this sledding party every year, and he always does outrageous things at it, but he?s never blown himself up before,? Oakland County Undersheriff Mike McCabe told the Detroit Free Press.

As you might imagine, authorities believe alcohol played a role, but no charges have been filed as the investigation continues. 

The Oakland Press reports the man suffered second-degree burns on 18 percent of his body and is in stable condition at POH Regional Medical Center.

Fox 2 has a photo gallery of the accident remnants, but unfortunately no known video exists. If it did, we imagine it would look something like this:





      

From vonrang at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 16:21:13 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:21:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
In-Reply-To: <794128.70231.qm@web111405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <231702.19151.qm@web52208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thank GOD he's okay, just an ordinary garden variety?idiot and not actually involved in?the hobby!

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Robert Nech <rnech at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Robert Nech <rnech at yahoo.com>
Subject: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
To: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 5:58 PM



http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/02/sledding_fail_clarkston_man_ho.html


Sledding fail: Independence Township man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes


By Jonathan Oosting | MLive.com 
February 01, 2010, 1:40PM



Calling to mind any number of Home Improvement episodes, police say a 62-year-old Independence Township man was hospitalized Sunday after strapping a homemade rocket to his back while sledding.

Fox 2 reports the rocket -- a combination of gunpowder, match heads and gasoline stuffed in a motorcycle muffler -- exploded during a downhill ride at a party he hosted.

?Apparently, he has this sledding party every year, and he always does outrageous things at it, but he?s never blown himself up before,? Oakland County Undersheriff Mike McCabe told the Detroit Free Press.

As you might imagine, authorities believe alcohol played a role, but no charges have been filed as the investigation continues. 

The Oakland Press reports the man suffered second-degree burns on 18 percent of his body and is in stable condition at POH Regional Medical Center.

Fox 2 has a photo gallery of the accident remnants, but unfortunately no known video exists. If it did, we imagine it would look something like this:





? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 


      

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Mon Feb  1 16:50:08 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:50:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <593384.47892.qm@web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <593384.47892.qm@web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <88aad861cd5fab79e0f846e1385cc17c.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

You'll never know until you try it.  Some of the most significant advances
in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.
+McG+


> I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation is
> ongoing.
> ?
> However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands were
> stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single
> skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear
> about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes?and Samari armor made from
> silk.
> ?
> It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some
> further?investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an
> original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of
> fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.
>
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
>
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM
>
>
> Is there some indication that silk provides the same
> strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber??
>
>
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Well that is what I was considering.
>> ?
>> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard seemed
>> affordable compared to CF cloth.
>> ?
>> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in airframe
>> and fin lay-ups.
>>
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>>
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>>
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>>
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
>> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam,
>> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
>> (Jr. High science project).
>> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
>> multiple layers in different directions.
>> ?
>> Hmmm.......
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>>>
>>> Yes, silk fabric?for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam Grado
>>> TRA L2
>>>
>>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>>>
>>> sales at pvconly.com
>>> http://www.pvconly.com
>>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>>> for strength?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>>> >
>>> > Sam Grado
>>> > TRA L2
>>> >
>>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>>> >
>>> > sales at pvconly.com
>>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>? ? ???
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> ?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Mon Feb  1 17:13:51 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:13:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA's plans to return to the Moon are dead
In-Reply-To: <B9D385E6-0E03-4E34-B4A8-B86BF018CE64@mooreread.com>
References: <333687.61639.qm@web111412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1756c35306b720060e5688a95289478b.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<2D822ABA-F68D-44D3-8D08-2550627CDCB4@mooreread.com>
	<6ddf8ed90e4a6a773fd9093768f7a811.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<B9D385E6-0E03-4E34-B4A8-B86BF018CE64@mooreread.com>
Message-ID: <f18098ae46a608ad8c94e2a4a24a3f75.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Seems Phil Plait and I would see eye to eye pretty well on this!

"Lead, follow, or get run the hell over" as the old saying goes.  Looks
like the space entrepreneurs are getting close to doing some serious
"running the hell over."  :)

About time...
+McG+


> Looks like we may yet find out what SpaceX can do :
> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/01/president-obamas-nasa-budget-unveiled/
>
> On Jan 28, 2010, at 11:01 PM, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
>
>> It's the White House/Congress/NASA triad that is dysfunctional.  The
>> traditional aerospace giants have become addicted to generous quantities
>> of money from the federal teat and thereby force NASA to overspend.
>> It's
>> one big orgy of wasteful spending, flawed plans, and inability to
>> complete
>> a plan once adopted.  The start-up companies, not yet having had enough
>> time to become ossified and largely not directly under the control of
>> Congress or the White House can do things much more efficiently.  Just
>> compare the development of Ares 1 and Falcon 5.  No contest.
>>
>> If I had the White House setting the goals for a 1/2A model rocket
>> project, NASA overseeing it and the big aerospace companies doing the
>> work
>> it would cost $10 million, be ten years late, fly once and be proclaimed
>> a
>> huge success.
>>
>> NASA can still do unmanned probes pretty well but the White House
>> /Congress /NASA triad just can't develop a space transportation system
>> within a reasonable budget.  The startups keep politics out of it and do
>> more than an order of magnitude better.  May be sad, but true.
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>>> That question is simply, could one nasa contractor do better than
>>> another
>>> ?  Blame lockheed-martin and cost+profit contracts rather than Nasa.
>>>
>>> On Jan 27, 2010, at 8:58 PM, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> "NASA has already spent more than $3 billion on Ares I and more than
>>>> $5
>>>> billion on the rest of Constellation."
>>>>
>>>> $8 billion and so far one measly one-stage test bed launch.  That's
>>>> EXACTLY why Ares needs to be euthanized.
>>>>
>>>> Now, what kind of results do you suppose SpaceX could get for that
>>>> kind
>>>> of
>>>> money?  Bigelow?  The two together?
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, NASA has become a Brontosaurus in an age of fast, furry
>>>> mammals.
>>>> +McG+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/os-no-moon-for-nasa-20100126,0,2770904.story
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> you have received this in error, please notify
>>> the sender and delete the copy you received.
>>>
>>> Thank You!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses
> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>
> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
> privileged material, and is intended solely
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> you have received this in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the copy you received.
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From vonrang at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 17:02:26 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <88aad861cd5fab79e0f846e1385cc17c.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <392865.18457.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

My wife tends to think that I have come up with?some of the weirdest ideas she has ever heard; so you may be on to something! 8^{)

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:


From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:50 PM


You'll never know until you try it.? Some of the most significant advances
in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.
+McG+


> I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation is
> ongoing.
> ?
> However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands were
> stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single
> skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear
> about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes?and Samari armor made from
> silk.
> ?
> It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some
> further?investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an
> original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of
> fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.
>
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
>
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM
>
>
> Is there some indication that silk provides the same
> strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber??
>
>
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Well that is what I was considering.
>> ?
>> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard seemed
>> affordable compared to CF cloth.
>> ?
>> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in airframe
>> and fin lay-ups.
>>
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>>
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>>
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>>
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
>> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam,
>> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
>> (Jr. High science project).
>> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
>> multiple layers in different directions.
>> ?
>> Hmmm.......
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>>>
>>> Yes, silk fabric?for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam Grado
>>> TRA L2
>>>
>>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>>>
>>> sales at pvconly.com
>>> http://www.pvconly.com
>>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>>> for strength?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>>> >
>>> > Sam Grado
>>> > TRA L2
>>> >
>>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>>> >
>>> > sales at pvconly.com
>>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>? ? ???
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> ?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Mon Feb  1 17:27:45 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:27:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
In-Reply-To: <794128.70231.qm@web111405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <794128.70231.qm@web111405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <27bbfb92c993810dd9b7ffa58b876a07.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Gunpowder, match heads, and gasoline in an old muffler pipe.  Wow!  Now
why didn't I think of that sooner?  It's just so...brilliant!  Oh wait, I
just drank a half-case of beer.  Maybe I should drop it for now and see
how good an idea it is after I sober up tomorrow.  ;-)

One lucky idiot.
+McG+


> http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/02/sledding_fail_clarkston_man_ho.html
>
>
> Sledding fail: Independence Township man hospitalized after homemade
> rocket explodes
>
>
> By Jonathan Oosting | MLive.com
> February 01, 2010, 1:40PM
>
>
>
> Calling to mind any number of Home Improvement episodes, police say a
> 62-year-old Independence Township man was hospitalized Sunday after
> strapping a homemade rocket to his back while sledding.
>
> Fox 2 reports the rocket -- a combination of gunpowder, match heads and
> gasoline stuffed in a motorcycle muffler -- exploded during a downhill
> ride at a party he hosted.
>
> ???Apparently, he has this sledding party every year, and he always does
> outrageous things at it, but he???s never blown himself up before,???
> Oakland County Undersheriff Mike McCabe told the Detroit Free Press.
>
> As you might imagine, authorities believe alcohol played a role, but no
> charges have been filed as the investigation continues.
>
> The Oakland Press reports the man suffered second-degree burns on 18
> percent of his body and is in stable condition at POH Regional Medical
> Center.
>
> Fox 2 has a photo gallery of the accident remnants, but unfortunately no
> known video exists. If it did, we imagine it would look something like
> this:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>



From ibelchloud at aol.com  Mon Feb  1 17:30:49 2010
From: ibelchloud at aol.com (ibelchloud at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:30:49 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] AeroTech decals
In-Reply-To: <003201caa2fc$acd32ee0$06798ca0$@com>
References: <003201caa2fc$acd32ee0$06798ca0$@com>
Message-ID: <8CC71BE7C6D28EB-2794-8DD9@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com>



John,

Give Mark at Stickershock an email.  He does vinyl decals for just about anything.  His website is www.stickershock23.com.


Lou




-----Original Message-----
From: John Hawkins <johnhawkins at wavecable.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2010 9:09 pm
Subject: [RocketsNW] AeroTech decals


Hi 
I was wondering if anyone out there had a set of AeroTech mustang decals
hat I may borrow to have up scaled.
Please let me know off the list if you have a set I may borrow from you. or
ven buy if need be.
Thanks,
John
_______________________________________________
ockets mailing list
ockets at rocketsnw.com
ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 18:21:31 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:21:31 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
References: <794128.70231.qm@web111405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<27bbfb92c993810dd9b7ffa58b876a07.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <F9179224CD594418B80F1A653EE0AF11@LaptopKrausert>

Lucky? I think he's now marked. If ever decides to get into rocketry, that 
could be interesting. Especially if he got into TRA research.

Mr. LCO, wht is the required minimum distance to launch my J?

LCO; Oh just three hundre... Wait. Aren't you the muffler rocket guy?

Guy; Yes. Yes I am

LCI; In that case 6000 feet out.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
To: "Robert Nech" <rnech at yahoo.com>
Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes


Gunpowder, match heads, and gasoline in an old muffler pipe.  Wow!  Now
why didn't I think of that sooner?  It's just so...brilliant!  Oh wait, I
just drank a half-case of beer.  Maybe I should drop it for now and see
how good an idea it is after I sober up tomorrow.  ;-)

One lucky idiot.
+McG+


> http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/02/sledding_fail_clarkston_man_ho.html
>
>
> Sledding fail: Independence Township man hospitalized after homemade
> rocket explodes
>
>
> By Jonathan Oosting | MLive.com
> February 01, 2010, 1:40PM
>
>
>
> Calling to mind any number of Home Improvement episodes, police say a
> 62-year-old Independence Township man was hospitalized Sunday after
> strapping a homemade rocket to his back while sledding.
>
> Fox 2 reports the rocket -- a combination of gunpowder, match heads and
> gasoline stuffed in a motorcycle muffler -- exploded during a downhill
> ride at a party he hosted.
>
> ??oApparently, he has this sledding party every year, and he always does
> outrageous things at it, but he??Ts never blown himself up before,???
> Oakland County Undersheriff Mike McCabe told the Detroit Free Press.
>
> As you might imagine, authorities believe alcohol played a role, but no
> charges have been filed as the investigation continues.
>
> The Oakland Press reports the man suffered second-degree burns on 18
> percent of his body and is in stable condition at POH Regional Medical
> Center.
>
> Fox 2 has a photo gallery of the accident remnants, but unfortunately no
> known video exists. If it did, we imagine it would look something like
> this:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From dmrandall at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 18:37:06 2010
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:37:06 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6bc920e41002011837u7a84b028oc2c9b46a4c08028d@mail.gmail.com>

There are a couple of aspects to your question.  First is the safety
aspect. For that, you want to know:

1. Where is the CP?
2. Where is the CG?
3. What is your expected altitude?
4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?

Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
Makes it real easy for the RSO.  The other items come from RockSim (or
other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.

For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
complimented with a statistics table.  See
http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm for an example of data & photos &
post-launch writeups done well.

While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
log.  I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
altitude.  Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
with the altimeter data on the computer.

Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...

Dave


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> What data do you record in your flight logs?
> And what do you use to record your flight data? ?(Scrap Paper, Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
>
> I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high power rockets. ?I want to get into good data collection habits now, that way when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least look like I know what I'm doing. ?For me a software solution would be the most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to it.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From dmrandall at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 18:38:35 2010
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:38:35 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
In-Reply-To: <F9179224CD594418B80F1A653EE0AF11@LaptopKrausert>
References: <794128.70231.qm@web111405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<27bbfb92c993810dd9b7ffa58b876a07.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<F9179224CD594418B80F1A653EE0AF11@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <6bc920e41002011838v2237d51ey79524044dc0326f8@mail.gmail.com>

Not sure I would have ever considered that contraption a rocket...

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lucky? I think he's now marked. If ever decides to get into rocketry, that
> could be interesting. Especially if he got into TRA research.
>
> Mr. LCO, wht is the required minimum distance to launch my J?
>
> LCO; Oh just three hundre... Wait. Aren't you the muffler rocket guy?
>
> Guy; Yes. Yes I am
>
> LCI; In that case 6000 feet out.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> To: "Robert Nech" <rnech at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
>
>
> Gunpowder, match heads, and gasoline in an old muffler pipe. ?Wow! ?Now
> why didn't I think of that sooner? ?It's just so...brilliant! ?Oh wait, I
> just drank a half-case of beer. ?Maybe I should drop it for now and see
> how good an idea it is after I sober up tomorrow. ?;-)
>
> One lucky idiot.
> +McG+
>
>
>>
>> http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/02/sledding_fail_clarkston_man_ho.html
>>
>>
>> Sledding fail: Independence Township man hospitalized after homemade
>> rocket explodes
>>
>>
>> By Jonathan Oosting | MLive.com
>> February 01, 2010, 1:40PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Calling to mind any number of Home Improvement episodes, police say a
>> 62-year-old Independence Township man was hospitalized Sunday after
>> strapping a homemade rocket to his back while sledding.
>>
>> Fox 2 reports the rocket -- a combination of gunpowder, match heads and
>> gasoline stuffed in a motorcycle muffler -- exploded during a downhill
>> ride at a party he hosted.
>>
>> ??oApparently, he has this sledding party every year, and he always does
>> outrageous things at it, but he??Ts never blown himself up before,??
>> Oakland County Undersheriff Mike McCabe told the Detroit Free Press.
>>
>> As you might imagine, authorities believe alcohol played a role, but no
>> charges have been filed as the investigation continues.
>>
>> The Oakland Press reports the man suffered second-degree burns on 18
>> percent of his body and is in stable condition at POH Regional Medical
>> Center.
>>
>> Fox 2 has a photo gallery of the accident remnants, but unfortunately no
>> known video exists. If it did, we imagine it would look something like
>> this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 18:50:21 2010
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:50:21 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] test message
Message-ID: <2A183A9D3BD2454CB99CFCCEAD4AD80D@TNTCENTER>

This is a test, pls ignore

Jeff Moore

From vonrang at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 19:06:29 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:06:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e41002011838v2237d51ey79524044dc0326f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <408311.74061.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Self-propelled wintertime mobile BBQ unit!

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
To: "Robert Krausert" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:38 PM


Not sure I would have ever considered that contraption a rocket...

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lucky? I think he's now marked. If ever decides to get into rocketry, that
> could be interesting. Especially if he got into TRA research.
>
> Mr. LCO, wht is the required minimum distance to launch my J?
>
> LCO; Oh just three hundre... Wait. Aren't you the muffler rocket guy?
>
> Guy; Yes. Yes I am
>
> LCI; In that case 6000 feet out.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> To: "Robert Nech" <rnech at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
>
>
> Gunpowder, match heads, and gasoline in an old muffler pipe. ?Wow! ?Now
> why didn't I think of that sooner? ?It's just so...brilliant! ?Oh wait, I
> just drank a half-case of beer. ?Maybe I should drop it for now and see
> how good an idea it is after I sober up tomorrow. ?;-)
>
> One lucky idiot.
> +McG+
>
>
>>
>> http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/02/sledding_fail_clarkston_man_ho.html
>>
>>
>> Sledding fail: Independence Township man hospitalized after homemade
>> rocket explodes
>>
>>
>> By Jonathan Oosting | MLive.com
>> February 01, 2010, 1:40PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Calling to mind any number of Home Improvement episodes, police say a
>> 62-year-old Independence Township man was hospitalized Sunday after
>> strapping a homemade rocket to his back while sledding.
>>
>> Fox 2 reports the rocket -- a combination of gunpowder, match heads and
>> gasoline stuffed in a motorcycle muffler -- exploded during a downhill
>> ride at a party he hosted.
>>
>> ??oApparently, he has this sledding party every year, and he always does
>> outrageous things at it, but he??Ts never blown himself up before,??
>> Oakland County Undersheriff Mike McCabe told the Detroit Free Press.
>>
>> As you might imagine, authorities believe alcohol played a role, but no
>> charges have been filed as the investigation continues.
>>
>> The Oakland Press reports the man suffered second-degree burns on 18
>> percent of his body and is in stable condition at POH Regional Medical
>> Center.
>>
>> Fox 2 has a photo gallery of the accident remnants, but unfortunately no
>> known video exists. If it did, we imagine it would look something like
>> this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      

From tnetcenter at bendcable.com  Mon Feb  1 19:08:32 2010
From: tnetcenter at bendcable.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:08:32 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] test msg 2
Message-ID: <14E781F164EF48F2A974C22EEF553030@TNTCENTER>

This is also a test msg  --  you can ignore ( except Robert - you have to reply  :-)

From fred at azinger.com  Mon Feb  1 21:36:19 2010
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:36:19 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e41002011837u7a84b028oc2c9b46a4c08028d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl>
	<6bc920e41002011837u7a84b028oc2c9b46a4c08028d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007201caa3c9$a682e2b0$f388a810$@com>

Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and go
to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)

(Just Kidding)
FredA


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
To: Paul Bowers
Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

There are a couple of aspects to your question.  First is the safety
aspect. For that, you want to know:

1. Where is the CP?
2. Where is the CG?
3. What is your expected altitude?
4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?

Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
Makes it real easy for the RSO.  The other items come from RockSim (or
other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.

For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
complimented with a statistics table.  See
http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm for an example of data & photos &
post-launch writeups done well.

While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
log.  I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
altitude.  Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
with the altimeter data on the computer.

Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...

Dave


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> What data do you record in your flight logs?
> And what do you use to record your flight data? ?(Scrap Paper,
Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
>
> I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
power rockets. ?I want to get into good data collection habits now, that way
when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
look like I know what I'm doing. ?For me a software solution would be the
most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to it.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Mon Feb  1 21:47:18 2010
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:47:18 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
References: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl><6bc920e41002011837u7a84b028oc2c9b46a4c08028d@mail.gmail.com>
	<007201caa3c9$a682e2b0$f388a810$@com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300463@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

When some of my students are flying, the most important thing is "has the motor actually been installed in your rocket, or are you carrying an empty shell?"  (They've been known to get nervous...and forget things....)
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
Sent: Mon 2/1/2010 9:36 PM
To: 'Dave Randall'; 'Paul Bowers'
Cc: 'NW Rocketry Email Forum'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log



Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and go
to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)

(Just Kidding)
FredA


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
To: Paul Bowers
Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

There are a couple of aspects to your question.  First is the safety
aspect. For that, you want to know:

1. Where is the CP?
2. Where is the CG?
3. What is your expected altitude?
4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?

Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
Makes it real easy for the RSO.  The other items come from RockSim (or
other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.

For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
complimented with a statistics table.  See
http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm for an example of data & photos &
post-launch writeups done well.

While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
log.  I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
altitude.  Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
with the altimeter data on the computer.

Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...

Dave


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> What data do you record in your flight logs?
> And what do you use to record your flight data?  (Scrap Paper,
Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
>
> I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
power rockets.  I want to get into good data collection habits now, that way
when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
look like I know what I'm doing.  For me a software solution would be the
most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to it.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



--
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Mon Feb  1 22:37:26 2010
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:37:26 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <392865.18457.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <88aad861cd5fab79e0f846e1385cc17c.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>,
	<392865.18457.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT125-W6147B3A0E85A849FCBF9C7B5570@phx.gbl>


I am a screenprinter (not SILK screen) as all fabric used in the industry is actually Dacron, or other high strength polyester mesh.
the "mesh" comes in various counts...110, 140, 200,305...etc. openings per inch when stretched to 20 newtons (because we use the openings to print through).
 The point I'm tring to make I guess, is that these fabrics are extremely high in tensile strength and applied properly would increase strength and durability

            Vince Simoneau
by the way I will soon (3-4 weeks) be ready to reproduce water-slide, vinyl, Mylar decals and graphics on a one-off basis. 
I also can print T-shirts, jackets and hats as needed for groups and schools. Not a backyard operation...just getting our own shop up and running. 
             I can be reached by e-mail or 425-346-0295 

> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:26 -0800
> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> My wife tends to think that I have come up with some of the weirdest ideas she has ever heard; so you may be on to something! 8^{)
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:50 PM
> 
> 
> You'll never know until you try it.  Some of the most significant advances
> in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.
> +McG+
> 
> 
> > I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation is
> > ongoing.
> >  
> > However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands were
> > stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single
> > skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear
> > about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes and Samari armor made from
> > silk.
> >  
> > It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some
> > further investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an
> > original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of
> > fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.
> >
> > Sam Grado
> > TRA L2
> >
> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >
> > sales at pvconly.com
> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >
> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> > To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM
> >
> >
> > Is there some indication that silk provides the same
> > strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber? 
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Well that is what I was considering.
> >>  
> >> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard seemed
> >> affordable compared to CF cloth.
> >>  
> >> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in airframe
> >> and fin lay-ups.
> >>
> >> Sam Grado
> >> TRA L2
> >>
> >> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >>
> >> sales at pvconly.com
> >> http://www.pvconly.com
> >> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >>
> >> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sam,
> >> Why not test it?  Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
> >> (Jr. High science project).
> >> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> >> multiple layers in different directions.
> >>  
> >> Hmmm.......
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
> >>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> >>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >>>
> >>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sam Grado
> >>> TRA L2
> >>>
> >>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >>>
> >>> sales at pvconly.com
> >>> http://www.pvconly.com
> >>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >>>
> >>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> >>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sam,
> >>>
> >>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
> >>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
> >>> for strength?
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
> >>> >
> >>> > Sam Grado
> >>> > TRA L2
> >>> >
> >>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >>> >
> >>> > sales at pvconly.com
> >>> > http://www.pvconly.com
> >>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> - Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>       
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/

From sb at berfield.com  Mon Feb  1 23:35:27 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 23:35:27 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <007201caa3c9$a682e2b0$f388a810$@com>
References: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl>	<6bc920e41002011837u7a84b028oc2c9b46a4c08028d@mail.gmail.com>
	<007201caa3c9$a682e2b0$f388a810$@com>
Message-ID: <000301caa3da$4acf0640$e06d12c0$@com>

Strategic misdirection can help.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Fred Azinger
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:36 PM
To: 'Dave Randall'; 'Paul Bowers'
Cc: 'NW Rocketry Email Forum'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and go
to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)

(Just Kidding)
FredA


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
To: Paul Bowers
Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

There are a couple of aspects to your question.  First is the safety
aspect. For that, you want to know:

1. Where is the CP?
2. Where is the CG?
3. What is your expected altitude?
4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?

Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
Makes it real easy for the RSO.  The other items come from RockSim (or
other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.

For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
complimented with a statistics table.  See
http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm for an example of data & photos &
post-launch writeups done well.

While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
log.  I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
altitude.  Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
with the altimeter data on the computer.

Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...

Dave


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> What data do you record in your flight logs?
> And what do you use to record your flight data? ?(Scrap Paper,
Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
>
> I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
power rockets. ?I want to get into good data collection habits now, that way
when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
look like I know what I'm doing. ?For me a software solution would be the
most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to it.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  




From bphlat234 at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 01:11:17 2010
From: bphlat234 at comcast.net (Gary Harris)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 01:11:17 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <007201caa3c9$a682e2b0$f388a810$@com>
References: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl><6bc920e41002011837u7a84b028oc2c9b46a4c08028d@mail.gmail.com>
	<007201caa3c9$a682e2b0$f388a810$@com>
Message-ID: <54ABE134F5194CD09A45D4C9845B2128@Garylaptop>

20 bucks hidden under the flight card is a good start...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
To: "'Dave Randall'" <dmrandall at gmail.com>; "'Paul Bowers'" 
<padapolis at hotmail.com>
Cc: "'NW Rocketry Email Forum'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log


Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and go
to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)

(Just Kidding)
FredA


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
To: Paul Bowers
Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

There are a couple of aspects to your question.  First is the safety
aspect. For that, you want to know:

1. Where is the CP?
2. Where is the CG?
3. What is your expected altitude?
4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?

Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
Makes it real easy for the RSO.  The other items come from RockSim (or
other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.

For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
complimented with a statistics table.  See
http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm for an example of data & photos &
post-launch writeups done well.

While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
log.  I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
altitude.  Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
with the altimeter data on the computer.

Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...

Dave


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> What data do you record in your flight logs?
> And what do you use to record your flight data? (Scrap Paper,
Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
>
> I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
power rockets. I want to get into good data collection habits now, that way
when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
look like I know what I'm doing. For me a software solution would be the
most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to it.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From vonrang at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 06:07:09 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 06:07:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <SNT125-W6147B3A0E85A849FCBF9C7B5570@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <118122.21671.qm@web52205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Here is an article on silk reinforced epoxies. 
http://jrp.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/25/1/33.pdf

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Tue, 2/2/10, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com> wrote:


From: Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: vonrang at yahoo.com, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:37 AM




I am a screenprinter (not SILK screen) as all fabric used in the industry is actually Dacron, or other high strength polyester mesh.
the "mesh" comes in various counts...110, 140, 200,305...etc. openings per inch when stretched to 20 newtons (because we use the openings to print through).
?The point I'm tring to make I guess, is that these fabrics are extremely high in tensile strength and applied properly would increase strength and durability

??????????? Vince Simoneau
by the way I will soon (3-4 weeks) be ready to reproduce water-slide, vinyl, Mylar decals and graphics on a one-off basis. 
I also can print T-shirts, jackets and hats as needed for groups and schools. Not a backyard operation...just getting our own shop up and running. 
???????????? I can be reached by e-mail or 425-346-0295 

> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:26 -0800
> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> 
> My wife tends to think that I have come up with?some of the weirdest ideas she has ever heard; so you may be on to something! 8^{)
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:50 PM
> 
> 
> You'll never know until you try it.? Some of the most significant advances
> in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.
> +McG+
> 
> 
> > I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation is
> > ongoing.
> > ?
> > However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands were
> > stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single
> > skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear
> > about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes?and Samari armor made from
> > silk.
> > ?
> > It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some
> > further?investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an
> > original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of
> > fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.
> >
> > Sam Grado
> > TRA L2
> >
> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >
> > sales at pvconly.com
> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >
> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> > To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM
> >
> >
> > Is there some indication that silk provides the same
> > strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber??
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Well that is what I was considering.
> >> ?
> >> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard seemed
> >> affordable compared to CF cloth.
> >> ?
> >> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in airframe
> >> and fin lay-ups.
> >>
> >> Sam Grado
> >> TRA L2
> >>
> >> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >>
> >> sales at pvconly.com
> >> http://www.pvconly.com
> >> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >>
> >> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sam,
> >> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
> >> (Jr. High science project).
> >> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> >> multiple layers in different directions.
> >> ?
> >> Hmmm.......
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ?
> >>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
> >>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> >>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >>>
> >>> Yes, silk fabric?for axial flexture and sheer strength.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sam Grado
> >>> TRA L2
> >>>
> >>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >>>
> >>> sales at pvconly.com
> >>> http://www.pvconly.com
> >>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >>>
> >>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> >>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sam,
> >>>
> >>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
> >>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
> >>> for strength?
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
> >>> >
> >>> > Sam Grado
> >>> > TRA L2
> >>> >
> >>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >>> >
> >>> > sales at pvconly.com
> >>> > http://www.pvconly.com
> >>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> - Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>? ? ???
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > ?
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> ? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 



Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. 


      

From absworld at cet.com  Tue Feb  2 07:26:42 2010
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:26:42 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <01d701caa41c$2015a750$6040f5f0$@com>

As part of my design package:
I record diameter, length, CP, recovery specs, fin dimensions, ect.

As part of my flight log:
I record the date, location, pad weight, measured CG, eject charge sizes,
motor, on board electronics, max altitude, max velocity, time of flight, and
finally decent rates from apogee and after main deployment along with
miscellaneous notes about the flight.

Bob Yanecek



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Bowers
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:41 PM
To: NW Rocketry Email Forum
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log


What data do you record in your flight logs?
And what do you use to record your flight data?  (Scrap Paper, Spreadsheets,
Dedicated Software, etc...)
 
I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
power rockets.  I want to get into good data collection habits now, that way
when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
look like I know what I'm doing.  For me a software solution would be the
most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to it.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From winningstad at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 08:44:46 2010
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:44:46 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300463@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl><6bc920e41002011837u7a84b028oc2c9b46a4c08028d@mail.gmail.com>	<007201caa3c9$a682e2b0$f388a810$@com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300463@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <046f01caa427$0779e7f0$166db7d0$@net>

I like marking the CP, but the CG can vary quite a bit, so just balance with
a finger to see if/how far ahead of the CP the current CG is...eh?

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:47 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

When some of my students are flying, the most important thing is "has the
motor actually been installed in your rocket, or are you carrying an empty
shell?"  (They've been known to get nervous...and forget things....)
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
Sent: Mon 2/1/2010 9:36 PM
To: 'Dave Randall'; 'Paul Bowers'
Cc: 'NW Rocketry Email Forum'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log



Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and go
to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)

(Just Kidding)
FredA


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
To: Paul Bowers
Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

There are a couple of aspects to your question.  First is the safety
aspect. For that, you want to know:

1. Where is the CP?
2. Where is the CG?
3. What is your expected altitude?
4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?

Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
Makes it real easy for the RSO.  The other items come from RockSim (or
other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.

For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
complimented with a statistics table.  See
http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm for an example of data & photos &
post-launch writeups done well.

While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
log.  I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
altitude.  Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
with the altimeter data on the computer.

Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...

Dave


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> What data do you record in your flight logs?
> And what do you use to record your flight data?  (Scrap Paper,
Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
>
> I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
power rockets.  I want to get into good data collection habits now, that way
when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
look like I know what I'm doing.  For me a software solution would be the
most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to it.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



--
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From rocketsrfun at msn.com  Tue Feb  2 09:25:13 2010
From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris )
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:25:13 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS18D79566E5E9813608243ABD570@phx.gbl>

You are correct as usual. Doesn't make since to mark the CG when it's going to change every time you put a different motor in it. But to please the parties that be; marking it without a motor in it couldn't  hurt...

Don
 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis S Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:44:46 
To: <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

I like marking the CP, but the CG can vary quite a bit, so just balance with
 a finger to see if/how far ahead of the CP the current CG is...eh?
 
 Dennis S Winningstad
 503-781-3529
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com <mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> ]
 On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:47 PM
 To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
 
 When some of my students are flying, the most important thing is "has the
 motor actually been installed in your rocket, or are you carrying an empty
 shell?"? (They've been known to get nervous...and forget things....)
 ?
 Peter Schurke
 Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
 Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
 Ingraham High School
 1819 N 135th St.
 Seattle, WA? 98133
 
 ________________________________
 
 From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
 Sent: Mon 2/1/2010 9:36 PM
 To: 'Dave Randall'; 'Paul Bowers'
 Cc: 'NW Rocketry Email Forum'
 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
 
 
 
 Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and go
 to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)
 
 (Just Kidding)
 FredA
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com <mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> ]
 On Behalf Of Dave Randall
 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
 To: Paul Bowers
 Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
 
 There are a couple of aspects to your question.? First is the safety
 aspect. For that, you want to know:
 
 1. Where is the CP?
 2. Where is the CG?
 3. What is your expected altitude?
 4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
 5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?
 
 Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
 Makes it real easy for the RSO.? The other items come from RockSim (or
 other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.
 
 For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
 performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
 duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
 complimented with a statistics table.? See
 http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm <http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm>  for an example of data & photos &
 post-launch writeups done well.
 
 While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
 to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
 log.? I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
 altitude.? Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
 download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
 with the altimeter data on the computer.
 
 Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...
 
 Dave
 
 
 On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
 >
 > What data do you record in your flight logs?
 > And what do you use to record your flight data?? (Scrap Paper,
 Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
 >
 > I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
 power rockets.? I want to get into good data collection habits now, that way
 when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
 look like I know what I'm doing.? For me a software solution would be the
 most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to it.
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
 > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/ <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/> 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Rockets mailing list
 > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 >
 >
 
 
 
 --
 - Dave
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 ?
 
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 ?
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 ? 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 ?

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 09:27:21 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:27:21 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Total Flights in NWR in 2010 - Goal is at least
	2010 in 2010
In-Reply-To: <DF17DA9FB6DD432A97969B6D9B015631@LaptopKrausert>
References: <DF17DA9FB6DD432A97969B6D9B015631@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002020927w3522f7cfn1e0c68d9636ec9d7@mail.gmail.com>

Can flights that are outside of club events count?  I recently spent a week
on the family farm in eastern Washington and had 47 flights while there.  I
flew on a bunch of A10's, C6-7's and 2 G40's.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> I believe I've mentioned this before, but maybe not. Think everyone has
> seen the launch calendar on the NWR site. One thing I've been doing is
> tracking the total number of flights per event. I update the ticker tape to
> show the overall total.
>
> I ask a favor to event holders. Please send me your total number of flights
> after each event. That way I can track the total.
>
> Why? I want to see if we jointly in the Pacific Northwest can launch more
> than 2010 rockets in 2010. Refer to the two examples on the launch calendar
> page for Wilsonville and 60 acres, thus far.
>
> http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17
>
> And watch the ticker, you'll see the total.
>
> So all that is being asked for is the total number of flights after each
> event. 2010 in 2010 is a great challenge. I'm certain that we'll joinly blow
> the doors off that goal.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Tue Feb  2 09:33:37 2010
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:33:37 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Total Flights in NWR in 2010 - Goal is at
	least	2010 in 2010
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002020927w3522f7cfn1e0c68d9636ec9d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DF17DA9FB6DD432A97969B6D9B015631@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26701002020927w3522f7cfn1e0c68d9636ec9d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E57789314@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

While that's cool, and a lot of rockets. I'm only adding to the tally those flights that occurred at club sanctioned events on the calendar. 

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:27 AM
To: Robert Krausert
Cc: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Total Flights in NWR in 2010 - Goal is at least 2010 in 2010

Can flights that are outside of club events count?  I recently spent a week
on the family farm in eastern Washington and had 47 flights while there.  I
flew on a bunch of A10's, C6-7's and 2 G40's.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> I believe I've mentioned this before, but maybe not. Think everyone has
> seen the launch calendar on the NWR site. One thing I've been doing is
> tracking the total number of flights per event. I update the ticker tape to
> show the overall total.
>
> I ask a favor to event holders. Please send me your total number of flights
> after each event. That way I can track the total.
>
> Why? I want to see if we jointly in the Pacific Northwest can launch more
> than 2010 rockets in 2010. Refer to the two examples on the launch calendar
> page for Wilsonville and 60 acres, thus far.
>
> http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17
>
> And watch the ticker, you'll see the total.
>
> So all that is being asked for is the total number of flights after each
> event. 2010 in 2010 is a great challenge. I'm certain that we'll joinly blow
> the doors off that goal.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 10:02:55 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:02:55 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>

I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place.  When the
epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated oven
at 250 for about 30 minutes.  (be sure to constantly check to make sure you
are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking)  If the fincan is to long
for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
ventilation in your kitchen.  Then after it has been oven hardened I started
layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from the
fin to the body.  (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to sharp
corners very well.)  With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember to
give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to bond.
After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I spread
a layer of epoxy from fintip  to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
(remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as the
epoxy sets)  Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and so
on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok but
remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
minutes.  After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I  had reached a
smoothness I liked.  Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
that will phase those fins.  (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
that is  LOL)

Chris Guenther
NAR L2

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the
> University
> of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum diameter, and
> I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the fins.
> What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial gluing,
> and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
> I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
>
> Thanks so much for you help!
> Julian
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 10:08:46 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:08:46 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
In-Reply-To: <F9179224CD594418B80F1A653EE0AF11@LaptopKrausert>
References: <794128.70231.qm@web111405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<27bbfb92c993810dd9b7ffa58b876a07.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<F9179224CD594418B80F1A653EE0AF11@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002021008l7ade7c5en2121ced45fea7702@mail.gmail.com>

Lucky? I think he's now marked. If ever decides to get into rocketry, that
could be interesting. Especially if he got into TRA research.

Mr. LCO, wht is the required minimum distance to launch my J?

LCO; Oh just three hundre... Wait. Aren't you the muffler rocket guy?

Guy; Yes. Yes I am

LCI; In that case 6000 feet out.

Cheers,
Robert

LOL  More like 6000 Miles out.



On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> Lucky? I think he's now marked. If ever decides to get into rocketry, that
> could be interesting. Especially if he got into TRA research.
>
> Mr. LCO, wht is the required minimum distance to launch my J?
>
> LCO; Oh just three hundre... Wait. Aren't you the muffler rocket guy?
>
> Guy; Yes. Yes I am
>
> LCI; In that case 6000 feet out.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> To: "Robert Nech" <rnech at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Man hospitalized after homemade rocket explodes
>
>
>
> Gunpowder, match heads, and gasoline in an old muffler pipe.  Wow!  Now
> why didn't I think of that sooner?  It's just so...brilliant!  Oh wait, I
> just drank a half-case of beer.  Maybe I should drop it for now and see
> how good an idea it is after I sober up tomorrow.  ;-)
>
> One lucky idiot.
> +McG+
>
>
>
>> http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/02/sledding_fail_clarkston_man_ho.html
>>
>>
>> Sledding fail: Independence Township man hospitalized after homemade
>> rocket explodes
>>
>>
>> By Jonathan Oosting | MLive.com
>> February 01, 2010, 1:40PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Calling to mind any number of Home Improvement episodes, police say a
>> 62-year-old Independence Township man was hospitalized Sunday after
>> strapping a homemade rocket to his back while sledding.
>>
>> Fox 2 reports the rocket -- a combination of gunpowder, match heads and
>> gasoline stuffed in a motorcycle muffler -- exploded during a downhill
>> ride at a party he hosted.
>>
>> ??oApparently, he has this sledding party every year, and he always does
>> outrageous things at it, but he??Ts never blown himself up before,??
>> Oakland County Undersheriff Mike McCabe told the Detroit Free Press.
>>
>>
>> As you might imagine, authorities believe alcohol played a role, but no
>> charges have been filed as the investigation continues.
>>
>> The Oakland Press reports the man suffered second-degree burns on 18
>> percent of his body and is in stable condition at POH Regional Medical
>> Center.
>>
>> Fox 2 has a photo gallery of the accident remnants, but unfortunately no
>> known video exists. If it did, we imagine it would look something like
>> this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From winningstad at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 10:09:21 2010
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:09:21 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-DS18D79566E5E9813608243ABD570@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT124-DS18D79566E5E9813608243ABD570@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <047a01caa432$d8814130$8983c390$@net>

But Don...why add all that extra weight and drag?

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Don Harris 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:25 AM
To: Rockets NW 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

You are correct as usual. Doesn't make since to mark the CG when it's going
to change every time you put a different motor in it. But to please the
parties that be; marking it without a motor in it couldn't  hurt...

Don
 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis S Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:44:46 
To: <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

I like marking the CP, but the CG can vary quite a bit, so just balance with
 a finger to see if/how far ahead of the CP the current CG is...eh?
 
 Dennis S Winningstad
 503-781-3529
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> ]
 On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:47 PM
 To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
 
 When some of my students are flying, the most important thing is "has the
 motor actually been installed in your rocket, or are you carrying an empty
 shell?"? (They've been known to get nervous...and forget things....)
 ?
 Peter Schurke
 Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
 Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
 Ingraham High School
 1819 N 135th St.
 Seattle, WA? 98133
 
 ________________________________
 
 From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
 Sent: Mon 2/1/2010 9:36 PM
 To: 'Dave Randall'; 'Paul Bowers'
 Cc: 'NW Rocketry Email Forum'
 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
 
 
 
 Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and
go
 to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)
 
 (Just Kidding)
 FredA
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> ]
 On Behalf Of Dave Randall
 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
 To: Paul Bowers
 Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
 
 There are a couple of aspects to your question.? First is the safety
 aspect. For that, you want to know:
 
 1. Where is the CP?
 2. Where is the CG?
 3. What is your expected altitude?
 4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
 5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?
 
 Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
 Makes it real easy for the RSO.? The other items come from RockSim (or
 other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.
 
 For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
 performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
 duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
 complimented with a statistics table.? See
 http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm <http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm>  for an
example of data & photos &
 post-launch writeups done well.
 
 While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
 to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
 log.? I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
 altitude.? Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
 download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
 with the altimeter data on the computer.
 
 Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...
 
 Dave
 
 
 On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
 >
 > What data do you record in your flight logs?
 > And what do you use to record your flight data?? (Scrap Paper,
 Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
 >
 > I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
 power rockets.? I want to get into good data collection habits now, that
way
 when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
 look like I know what I'm doing.? For me a software solution would be the
 most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to
it.
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
 > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
<http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/> 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Rockets mailing list
 > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 >
 >
 
 
 
 --
 - Dave
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 ?
 
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 ?
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 ? 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 ?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From holdencurrency at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 10:25:25 2010
From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:25:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging Puget Sound Propulsion
Message-ID: <1027294507.1938671265135125586.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



Paging Puget Sound Propulsion? Please Call Chris Holden ( www.holdenhobbies.com ) at 253-961-3095 Thanks!

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 10:25:03 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:25:03 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <118122.21671.qm@web52205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT125-W6147B3A0E85A849FCBF9C7B5570@phx.gbl>
	<118122.21671.qm@web52205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002021025r58f32be2we91d41ba7a2b3418@mail.gmail.com>

This is a very interesting topic.  Interesting enough in fact I want to try
it out.  Does anyone have a good source for silk or do I just go to the
local fabric store for it.  I do know that on most materials depending on
the kind of die used if new fabric may or may not disappear when you apply
the epoxy.  I had some great success with an old T-Shirt the wife wanted me
to get rid of (I wore it to death).  I applied it like Fiber Glass and the
and lost the white in the fabric but retained the graphics  I came out great
and seems to be about as strong as if I had fiber glassed it even after a
few flights and one with a very early deployment in which the delay burned
instantly instead of lasting it's 14 seconds.

Chris Guenther
NAR L2



On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Here is an article on silk reinforced epoxies.
> http://jrp.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/25/1/33.pdf
>
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
>
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>
> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:37 AM
>
>
>
>
> I am a screenprinter (not SILK screen) as all fabric used in the industry
> is actually Dacron, or other high strength polyester mesh.
> the "mesh" comes in various counts...110, 140, 200,305...etc. openings per
> inch when stretched to 20 newtons (because we use the openings to print
> through).
>  The point I'm tring to make I guess, is that these fabrics are extremely
> high in tensile strength and applied properly would increase strength and
> durability
>
>             Vince Simoneau
> by the way I will soon (3-4 weeks) be ready to reproduce water-slide,
> vinyl, Mylar decals and graphics on a one-off basis.
> I also can print T-shirts, jackets and hats as needed for groups and
> schools. Not a backyard operation...just getting our own shop up and
> running.
>              I can be reached by e-mail or 425-346-0295
>
> > Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:26 -0800
> > From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >
> > My wife tends to think that I have come up with some of the weirdest
> ideas she has ever heard; so you may be on to something! 8^{)
> >
> > Sam Grado
> > TRA L2
> >
> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >
> > sales at pvconly.com
> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >
> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <
> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> > To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:50 PM
> >
> >
> > You'll never know until you try it.  Some of the most significant
> advances
> > in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.
> > +McG+
> >
> >
> > > I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation
> is
> > > ongoing.
> > >
> > > However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands
> were
> > > stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single
> > > skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear
> > > about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes and Samari armor made from
> > > silk.
> > >
> > > It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some
> > > further investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an
> > > original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of
> > > fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.
> > >
> > > Sam Grado
> > > TRA L2
> > >
> > > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> > >
> > > sales at pvconly.com
> > > http://www.pvconly.com
> > > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> > > To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Is there some indication that silk provides the same
> > > strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >> Well that is what I was considering.
> > >>
> > >> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard
> seemed
> > >> affordable compared to CF cloth.
> > >>
> > >> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in
> airframe
> > >> and fin lay-ups.
> > >>
> > >> Sam Grado
> > >> TRA L2
> > >>
> > >> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> > >>
> > >> sales at pvconly.com
> > >> http://www.pvconly.com
> > >> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > >> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> > >>
> > >> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
> > >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> > >> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
> > >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Sam,
> > >> Why not test it?  Newspaper and white glue work pretty well
> structurally
> > >> (Jr. High science project).
> > >> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> > >> multiple layers in different directions.
> > >>
> > >> Hmmm.......
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
> > >>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> > >>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Sam Grado
> > >>> TRA L2
> > >>>
> > >>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> > >>>
> > >>> sales at pvconly.com
> > >>> http://www.pvconly.com
> > >>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > >>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> > >>>
> > >>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> > >>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > >>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Sam,
> > >>>
> > >>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
> > >>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
> > >>> for strength?
> > >>>
> > >>> Dave
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Sam Grado
> > >>> > TRA L2
> > >>> >
> > >>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> > >>> >
> > >>> > sales at pvconly.com
> > >>> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > >>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > Rockets mailing list
> > >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> - Dave
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Rockets mailing list
> > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Rockets mailing list
> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
>
>
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From sb at berfield.com  Tue Feb  2 10:33:10 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:33:10 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>
	<e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>

I recommend that if you plan on using the kitchen oven, you wait until the
wife is out.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:03 AM
To: Julian Picard
Cc: rockets
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place.  When the
epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated oven
at 250 for about 30 minutes.  (be sure to constantly check to make sure you
are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking)  If the fincan is to long
for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
ventilation in your kitchen.  Then after it has been oven hardened I started
layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from the
fin to the body.  (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to sharp
corners very well.)  With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember to
give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to bond.
After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I spread
a layer of epoxy from fintip  to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
(remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as the
epoxy sets)  Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and so
on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok but
remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
minutes.  After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I  had reached a
smoothness I liked.  Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
that will phase those fins.  (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
that is  LOL)

Chris Guenther
NAR L2

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the
> University
> of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum diameter, and
> I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the fins.
> What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial gluing,
> and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
> I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
>
> Thanks so much for you help!
> Julian
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  




From greg at blastzone.com  Tue Feb  2 11:10:02 2010
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:10:02 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>	<e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>
Message-ID: <019701caa43b$532db2d0$f9891870$@blastzone.com>

One other tip.  Use parchment paper, rather than wax paper.  Parchment paper
(for baking) is impregnated with silicone and epoxy will not stick to it,
and the paper is good for use in the oven.  Wax paper is not so good in the
oven, wax can melt out, epoxy can stick to it, etc.   

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:33 AM
To: 'Christopher Guenther'; 'Julian Picard'
Cc: 'rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I recommend that if you plan on using the kitchen oven, you wait until the
wife is out.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:03 AM
To: Julian Picard
Cc: rockets
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place.  When the
epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated oven
at 250 for about 30 minutes.  (be sure to constantly check to make sure you
are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking)  If the fincan is to long
for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
ventilation in your kitchen.  Then after it has been oven hardened I started
layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from the
fin to the body.  (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to sharp
corners very well.)  With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember to
give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to bond.
After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I spread
a layer of epoxy from fintip  to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
(remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as the
epoxy sets)  Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and so
on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok but
remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
minutes.  After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I  had reached a
smoothness I liked.  Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
that will phase those fins.  (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
that is  LOL)

Chris Guenther
NAR L2

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the 
> University of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum 
> diameter, and I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the 
> fins.
> What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial 
> gluing, and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
> I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
>
> Thanks so much for you help!
> Julian
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
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http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



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From vonrang at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 11:20:50 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:20:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002021025r58f32be2we91d41ba7a2b3418@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <718906.25688.qm@web52205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

The type of silk fabric used for draperies (window treatment store)?is typically available more durable weaves than those purchased at a fabric store (used to make clothing).
Be sure that?it is 100% silk.

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Tue, 2/2/10, Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
Cc: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com, "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:25 PM


This is a very interesting topic.? Interesting enough in fact I want to try it out.? Does anyone have a good source for silk or do I just go to the local fabric store for it.? I do know that on most materials depending on the kind of die used if new fabric may or may not disappear when you apply the epoxy.? I had some great success with an old T-Shirt the wife wanted me to get rid of (I wore it to death).? I applied it like Fiber Glass and the and lost the white in the fabric but retained the graphics? I came out great and seems to be about as strong as if I had fiber glassed it even after a few flights and one with a very early deployment in which the delay burned instantly instead of lasting it's 14 seconds.

Chris Guenther
NAR L2




On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:

Here is an article on silk reinforced epoxies.
http://jrp.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/25/1/33.pdf


Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Tue, 2/2/10, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com> wrote:


From: Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>

Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: vonrang at yahoo.com, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:37 AM







I am a screenprinter (not SILK screen) as all fabric used in the industry is actually Dacron, or other high strength polyester mesh.
the "mesh" comes in various counts...110, 140, 200,305...etc. openings per inch when stretched to 20 newtons (because we use the openings to print through).
?The point I'm tring to make I guess, is that these fabrics are extremely high in tensile strength and applied properly would increase strength and durability

??????????? Vince Simoneau
by the way I will soon (3-4 weeks) be ready to reproduce water-slide, vinyl, Mylar decals and graphics on a one-off basis.
I also can print T-shirts, jackets and hats as needed for groups and schools. Not a backyard operation...just getting our own shop up and running.
???????????? I can be reached by e-mail or 425-346-0295

> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:26 -0800
> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>
> My wife tends to think that I have come up with?some of the weirdest ideas she has ever heard; so you may be on to something! 8^{)
>
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
>
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>
> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:50 PM
>
>
> You'll never know until you try it.? Some of the most significant advances
> in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.
> +McG+
>
>
> > I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation is
> > ongoing.
> > ?
> > However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands were
> > stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single
> > skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear
> > about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes?and Samari armor made from
> > silk.
> > ?
> > It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some
> > further?investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an
> > original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of
> > fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.
> >
> > Sam Grado
> > TRA L2
> >
> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >
> > sales at pvconly.com
> > http://www.pvconly.com
> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >
> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> > To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM
> >
> >
> > Is there some indication that silk provides the same
> > strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber??
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Well that is what I was considering.
> >> ?
> >> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard seemed
> >> affordable compared to CF cloth.
> >> ?
> >> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in airframe
> >> and fin lay-ups.
> >>
> >> Sam Grado
> >> TRA L2
> >>
> >> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >>
> >> sales at pvconly.com
> >> http://www.pvconly.com
> >> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >>
> >> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sam,
> >> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally
> >> (Jr. High science project).
> >> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
> >> multiple layers in different directions.
> >> ?
> >> Hmmm.......
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ?
> >>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
> >>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
> >>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >>>
> >>> Yes, silk fabric?for axial flexture and sheer strength.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sam Grado
> >>> TRA L2
> >>>
> >>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >>>
> >>> sales at pvconly.com
> >>> http://www.pvconly.com
> >>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >>>
> >>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> >>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> >>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sam,
> >>>
> >>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
> >>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
> >>> for strength?
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
> >>> >
> >>> > Sam Grado
> >>> > TRA L2
> >>> >
> >>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> >>> >
> >>> > sales at pvconly.com
> >>> > http://www.pvconly.com
> >>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> - Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>? ? ???
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > ?
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> ?
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>



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From rocketsrfun at msn.com  Tue Feb  2 11:49:04 2010
From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:49:04 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-DS18D79566E5E9813608243ABD570@phx.gbl>
	<047a01caa432$d8814130$8983c390$@net>
References: <SNT124-DS18D79566E5E9813608243ABD570@phx.gbl>
	<047a01caa432$d8814130$8983c390$@net>
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS138CE980FEDD869A99C186BD570@phx.gbl>

Extra weight? What the motor?

Don
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dennis S Winningstad<mailto:winningstad at comcast.net> 
  To: 'Don Harris '<mailto:rocketsrfun at msn.com> ; 'Rockets NW '<mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:09 AM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log


  But Don...why add all that extra weight and drag?

  Dennis S Winningstad
  503-781-3529


  -----Original Message-----
  From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  On Behalf Of Don Harris 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:25 AM
  To: Rockets NW 
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

  You are correct as usual. Doesn't make since to mark the CG when it's going
  to change every time you put a different motor in it. But to please the
  parties that be; marking it without a motor in it couldn't  hurt...

  Don
   
  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dennis S Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net<mailto:winningstad at comcast.net>>
  Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:44:46 
  To: <pmschurke at seattleschools.org<mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org>>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com<mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com>>
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

  I like marking the CP, but the CG can vary quite a bit, so just balance with
   a finger to see if/how far ahead of the CP the current CG is...eh?
   
   Dennis S Winningstad
   503-781-3529
   
   
   -----Original Message-----
   From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
  <mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com>> ]
   On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
   Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:47 PM
   To: rockets at rocketsnw.com<mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com>
   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
   
   When some of my students are flying, the most important thing is "has the
   motor actually been installed in your rocket, or are you carrying an empty
   shell?" (They've been known to get nervous...and forget things....)
    
   Peter Schurke
   Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
   Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
   Ingraham High School
   1819 N 135th St.
   Seattle, WA 98133
   
   ________________________________
   
   From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> on behalf of Fred Azinger
   Sent: Mon 2/1/2010 9:36 PM
   To: 'Dave Randall'; 'Paul Bowers'
   Cc: 'NW Rocketry Email Forum'
   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
   
   
   
   Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and
  go
   to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)
   
   (Just Kidding)
   FredA
   
   
   -----Original Message-----
   From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
  <mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com>> ]
   On Behalf Of Dave Randall
   Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
   To: Paul Bowers
   Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
   
   There are a couple of aspects to your question. First is the safety
   aspect. For that, you want to know:
   
   1. Where is the CP?
   2. Where is the CG?
   3. What is your expected altitude?
   4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
   5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?
   
   Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
   Makes it real easy for the RSO. The other items come from RockSim (or
   other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.
   
   For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
   performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
   duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
   complimented with a statistics table. See
   http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm<http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm> <http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm<http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm>>  for an
  example of data & photos &
   post-launch writeups done well.
   
   While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
   to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
   log. I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
   altitude. Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
   download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
   with the altimeter data on the computer.
   
   Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...
   
   Dave
   
   
   On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com<mailto:padapolis at hotmail.com>> wrote:
   >
   > What data do you record in your flight logs?
   > And what do you use to record your flight data? (Scrap Paper,
   Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
   >
   > I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
   power rockets. I want to get into good data collection habits now, that
  way
   when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
   look like I know what I'm doing. For me a software solution would be the
   most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to
  it.
   >
   > _________________________________________________________________
   > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
   > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/<http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/>
  <http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/<http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/>> 
   > _______________________________________________
   > Rockets mailing list
   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com<mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com>
   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
  <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>> 
   >
   >
   
   
   
   --
   - Dave
   _______________________________________________
   Rockets mailing list
   Rockets at rocketsnw.com<mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com>
   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
  <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>> 
    
   
   _______________________________________________
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   Rockets at rocketsnw.com<mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com>
   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
  <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>> 
    
   
   
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   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
  <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>> 
    
   
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   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
  <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>> 
    
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From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:15:45 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:15:45 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <019701caa43b$532db2d0$f9891870$@blastzone.com>
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>
	<e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>
	<019701caa43b$532db2d0$f9891870$@blastzone.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002021215n45d1aa7we30f7c00c5793d51@mail.gmail.com>

That is why I remove the coupler with the waxy freezer paper before curing
in the oven.   LOL

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:

> One other tip.  Use parchment paper, rather than wax paper.  Parchment
> paper
> (for baking) is impregnated with silicone and epoxy will not stick to it,
> and the paper is good for use in the oven.  Wax paper is not so good in the
> oven, wax can melt out, epoxy can stick to it, etc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:33 AM
> To: 'Christopher Guenther'; 'Julian Picard'
> Cc: 'rockets'
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> I recommend that if you plan on using the kitchen oven, you wait until the
> wife is out.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:03 AM
> To: Julian Picard
> Cc: rockets
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
> the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place.  When the
> epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
> coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated oven
> at 250 for about 30 minutes.  (be sure to constantly check to make sure you
> are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking)  If the fincan is to long
> for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
> ventilation in your kitchen.  Then after it has been oven hardened I
> started
> layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
> Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from the
> fin to the body.  (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to
> sharp
> corners very well.)  With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember to
> give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
> dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to bond.
> After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I spread
> a layer of epoxy from fintip  to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
> (remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
> around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as the
> epoxy sets)  Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and so
> on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok
> but
> remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
> When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
> minutes.  After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
> another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I  had reached a
> smoothness I liked.  Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
> that will phase those fins.  (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
> that is  LOL)
>
> Chris Guenther
> NAR L2
>
> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the
> > University of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum
> > diameter, and I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the
> > fins.
> > What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial
> > gluing, and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
> > I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
> >
> > Thanks so much for you help!
> > Julian
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>

From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:23:46 2010
From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:23:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <718906.25688.qm@web52205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <718906.25688.qm@web52205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT115-DS1790B290E8554C8AC9EDF0F0570@phx.gbl>

I don't know about adding strength, but you can definitely give a rocket a 
unique appearance by wrapping it in fabric.  The rocket pictured here was 
wrapped with fiber glass first and then I wrapped it with a layer of thin 
fabric the same way I would apply fiber glass.  The fabric had a Tiger skin 
pattern to it.  Close up it really looked impressive, and I didn't have to 
paint it.
http://www.uroc.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10164/025HF12.jpg


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:20 PM
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

> The type of silk fabric used for draperies (window treatment store) is 
> typically available more durable weaves than those purchased at a fabric 
> store (used to make clothing).
> Be sure that it is 100% silk.
>
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
>
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>
> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Cc: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com, "Vince Simoneau" 
> <vincesimoneau at msn.com>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:25 PM
>
>
> This is a very interesting topic.  Interesting enough in fact I want to 
> try it out.  Does anyone have a good source for silk or do I just go to 
> the local fabric store for it.  I do know that on most materials depending 
> on the kind of die used if new fabric may or may not disappear when you 
> apply the epoxy.  I had some great success with an old T-Shirt the wife 
> wanted me to get rid of (I wore it to death).  I applied it like Fiber 
> Glass and the and lost the white in the fabric but retained the graphics 
> I came out great and seems to be about as strong as if I had fiber glassed 
> it even after a few flights and one with a very early deployment in which 
> the delay burned instantly instead of lasting it's 14 seconds.
>
> Chris Guenther
> NAR L2
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Here is an article on silk reinforced epoxies.
> http://jrp.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/25/1/33.pdf
>
>
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
>
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>
> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:37 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am a screenprinter (not SILK screen) as all fabric used in the industry 
> is actually Dacron, or other high strength polyester mesh.
> the "mesh" comes in various counts...110, 140, 200,305...etc. openings per 
> inch when stretched to 20 newtons (because we use the openings to print 
> through).
>  The point I'm tring to make I guess, is that these fabrics are extremely 
> high in tensile strength and applied properly would increase strength and 
> durability
>
>             Vince Simoneau
> by the way I will soon (3-4 weeks) be ready to reproduce water-slide, 
> vinyl, Mylar decals and graphics on a one-off basis.
> I also can print T-shirts, jackets and hats as needed for groups and 
> schools. Not a backyard operation...just getting our own shop up and 
> running.
>              I can be reached by e-mail or 425-346-0295
>
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:26 -0800
>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>>
>> My wife tends to think that I have come up with some of the weirdest 
>> ideas she has ever heard; so you may be on to something! 8^{)
>>
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>>
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>>
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>>
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com 
>> <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:50 PM
>>
>>
>> You'll never know until you try it.  Some of the most significant 
>> advances
>> in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>> > I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation 
>> > is
>> > ongoing.
>> >
>> > However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands 
>> > were
>> > stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single
>> > skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear
>> > about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes and Samari armor made from
>> > silk.
>> >
>> > It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some
>> > further investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an
>> > original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of
>> > fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.
>> >
>> > Sam Grado
>> > TRA L2
>> >
>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >
>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >
>> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> > To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > Is there some indication that silk provides the same
>> > strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Well that is what I was considering.
>> >>
>> >> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard 
>> >> seemed
>> >> affordable compared to CF cloth.
>> >>
>> >> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in 
>> >> airframe
>> >> and fin lay-ups.
>> >>
>> >> Sam Grado
>> >> TRA L2
>> >>
>> >> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >>
>> >> sales at pvconly.com
>> >> http://www.pvconly.com
>> >> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >>
>> >> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
>> >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> >> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
>> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sam,
>> >> Why not test it?  Newspaper and white glue work pretty well 
>> >> structurally
>> >> (Jr. High science project).
>> >> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
>> >> multiple layers in different directions.
>> >>
>> >> Hmmm.......
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>> >>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> >>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sam Grado
>> >>> TRA L2
>> >>>
>> >>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >>>
>> >>> sales at pvconly.com
>> >>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> >>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >>>
>> >>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> >>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> >>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sam,
>> >>>
>> >>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>> >>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>> >>> for strength?
>> >>>
>> >>> Dave
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Sam Grado
>> >>> > TRA L2
>> >>> >
>> >>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> >>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> >>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> - Dave
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Rockets mailing list
>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
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> 

From winningstad at comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 12:48:46 2010
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:48:46 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-DS138CE980FEDD869A99C186BD570@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT124-DS18D79566E5E9813608243ABD570@phx.gbl>
	<047a01caa432$d8814130$8983c390$@net>
	<SNT124-DS138CE980FEDD869A99C186BD570@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <049f01caa449$1dae23c0$590a6b40$@net>

No MAN!  The empty rocket CG marker.dummy!!!

 

Dennis S Winningstad

503-781-3529

 

From: Don Harris [mailto:rocketsrfun at msn.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:49 AM
To: 'Rockets NW '; Dennis S Winningstad
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

 

Extra weight? What the motor?

 

Don

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Dennis S Winningstad <mailto:winningstad at comcast.net>  

To: 'Don Harris ' <mailto:rocketsrfun at msn.com>  ; 'Rockets
<mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com>  NW ' 

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:09 AM

Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

 

But Don...why add all that extra weight and drag?

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Don Harris 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:25 AM
To: Rockets NW 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

You are correct as usual. Doesn't make since to mark the CG when it's going
to change every time you put a different motor in it. But to please the
parties that be; marking it without a motor in it couldn't  hurt...

Don
 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis S Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:44:46 
To: <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log

I like marking the CP, but the CG can vary quite a bit, so just balance with
 a finger to see if/how far ahead of the CP the current CG is...eh?
 
 Dennis S Winningstad
 503-781-3529
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> ]
 On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:47 PM
 To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
 
 When some of my students are flying, the most important thing is "has the
 motor actually been installed in your rocket, or are you carrying an empty
 shell?" (They've been known to get nervous...and forget things....)
  
 Peter Schurke
 Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
 Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
 Ingraham High School
 1819 N 135th St.
 Seattle, WA 98133
 
 ________________________________
 
 From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
 Sent: Mon 2/1/2010 9:36 PM
 To: 'Dave Randall'; 'Paul Bowers'
 Cc: 'NW Rocketry Email Forum'
 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
 
 
 
 Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and
go
 to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)
 
 (Just Kidding)
 FredA
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
<mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> ]
 On Behalf Of Dave Randall
 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
 To: Paul Bowers
 Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
 Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
 
 There are a couple of aspects to your question. First is the safety
 aspect. For that, you want to know:
 
 1. Where is the CP?
 2. Where is the CG?
 3. What is your expected altitude?
 4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
 5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?
 
 Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
 Makes it real easy for the RSO. The other items come from RockSim (or
 other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.
 
 For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
 performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
 duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
 complimented with a statistics table. See
 http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm <http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm>  for an
example of data & photos &
 post-launch writeups done well.
 
 While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
 to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
 log. I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
 altitude. Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
 download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
 with the altimeter data on the computer.
 
 Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...
 
 Dave
 
 
 On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
 >
 > What data do you record in your flight logs?
 > And what do you use to record your flight data? (Scrap Paper,
 Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
 >
 > I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
 power rockets. I want to get into good data collection habits now, that
way
 when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
 look like I know what I'm doing. For me a software solution would be the
 most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to
it.
 >
 > _________________________________________________________________
 > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
 > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
<http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/> 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Rockets mailing list
 > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 >
 >
 
 
 
 --
 - Dave
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
  
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
  
 
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
<http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From vonrang at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 14:40:30 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:40:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <SNT115-DS1790B290E8554C8AC9EDF0F0570@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <122829.84863.qm@web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

That rocket looks very cool!

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Tue, 2/2/10, Jack Anderson <jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com> wrote:


From: Jack Anderson <jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 2:23 PM


I don't know about adding strength, but you can definitely give a rocket a unique appearance by wrapping it in fabric.? The rocket pictured here was wrapped with fiber glass first and then I wrapped it with a layer of thin fabric the same way I would apply fiber glass.? The fabric had a Tiger skin pattern to it.? Close up it really looked impressive, and I didn't have to paint it.
http://www.uroc.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10164/025HF12.jpg


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:20 PM
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

> The type of silk fabric used for draperies (window treatment store) is typically available more durable weaves than those purchased at a fabric store (used to make clothing).
> Be sure that it is 100% silk.
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
> Cc: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com, "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:25 PM
> 
> 
> This is a very interesting topic.? Interesting enough in fact I want to try it out.? Does anyone have a good source for silk or do I just go to the local fabric store for it.? I do know that on most materials depending on the kind of die used if new fabric may or may not disappear when you apply the epoxy.? I had some great success with an old T-Shirt the wife wanted me to get rid of (I wore it to death).? I applied it like Fiber Glass and the and lost the white in the fabric but retained the graphics I came out great and seems to be about as strong as if I had fiber glassed it even after a few flights and one with a very early deployment in which the delay burned instantly instead of lasting it's 14 seconds.
> 
> Chris Guenther
> NAR L2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Here is an article on silk reinforced epoxies.
> http://jrp.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/25/1/33.pdf
> 
> 
> Sam Grado
> TRA L2
> 
> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
> 
> sales at pvconly.com
> http://www.pvconly.com
> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
> 
> --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> 
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 12:37 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a screenprinter (not SILK screen) as all fabric used in the industry is actually Dacron, or other high strength polyester mesh.
> the "mesh" comes in various counts...110, 140, 200,305...etc. openings per inch when stretched to 20 newtons (because we use the openings to print through).
>? The point I'm tring to make I guess, is that these fabrics are extremely high in tensile strength and applied properly would increase strength and durability
> 
>? ? ? ? ? ???Vince Simoneau
> by the way I will soon (3-4 weeks) be ready to reproduce water-slide, vinyl, Mylar decals and graphics on a one-off basis.
> I also can print T-shirts, jackets and hats as needed for groups and schools. Not a backyard operation...just getting our own shop up and running.
>? ? ? ? ? ? ? I can be reached by e-mail or 425-346-0295
> 
>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:26 -0800
>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> 
>> My wife tends to think that I have come up with some of the weirdest ideas she has ever heard; so you may be on to something! 8^{)
>> 
>> Sam Grado
>> TRA L2
>> 
>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> 
>> sales at pvconly.com
>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:50 PM
>> 
>> 
>> You'll never know until you try it.? Some of the most significant advances
>> in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.
>> +McG+
>> 
>> 
>> > I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation > is
>> > ongoing.
>> >
>> > However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands > were
>> > stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single
>> > skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear
>> > about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes and Samari armor made from
>> > silk.
>> >
>> > It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some
>> > further investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an
>> > original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of
>> > fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.
>> >
>> > Sam Grado
>> > TRA L2
>> >
>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >
>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >
>> > --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> > To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > Is there some indication that silk provides the same
>> > strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Well that is what I was considering.
>> >>
>> >> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard >> seemed
>> >> affordable compared to CF cloth.
>> >>
>> >> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in >> airframe
>> >> and fin lay-ups.
>> >>
>> >> Sam Grado
>> >> TRA L2
>> >>
>> >> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >>
>> >> sales at pvconly.com
>> >> http://www.pvconly.com
>> >> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >>
>> >> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
>> >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> >> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,
>> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sam,
>> >> Why not test it?? Newspaper and white glue work pretty well >> structurally
>> >> (Jr. High science project).
>> >> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in
>> >> multiple layers in different directions.
>> >>
>> >> Hmmm.......
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800
>> >>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com
>> >>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sam Grado
>> >>> TRA L2
>> >>>
>> >>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >>>
>> >>> sales at pvconly.com
>> >>> http://www.pvconly.com
>> >>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >>>
>> >>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
>> >>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>
>> >>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sam,
>> >>>
>> >>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative
>> >>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it
>> >>> for strength?
>> >>>
>> >>> Dave
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Sam Grado
>> >>> > TRA L2
>> >>> >
>> >>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > sales at pvconly.com
>> >>> > http://www.pvconly.com
>> >>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
>> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> - Dave
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Rockets mailing list
>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



      

From fred at azinger.com  Tue Feb  2 15:28:21 2010
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:28:21 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>	<e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>
Message-ID: <005401caa45f$68fd7590$3af860b0$@com>

And remember when you take it out of the oven to set it on the kitchen
table. 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:33 AM
To: 'Christopher Guenther'; 'Julian Picard'
Cc: 'rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I recommend that if you plan on using the kitchen oven, you wait until the
wife is out.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:03 AM
To: Julian Picard
Cc: rockets
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place.  When the
epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated oven
at 250 for about 30 minutes.  (be sure to constantly check to make sure you
are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking)  If the fincan is to long
for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
ventilation in your kitchen.  Then after it has been oven hardened I started
layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from the
fin to the body.  (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to sharp
corners very well.)  With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember to
give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to bond.
After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I spread
a layer of epoxy from fintip  to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
(remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as the
epoxy sets)  Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and so
on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok but
remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
minutes.  After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I  had reached a
smoothness I liked.  Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
that will phase those fins.  (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
that is  LOL)

Chris Guenther
NAR L2

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the
> University
> of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum diameter, and
> I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the fins.
> What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial gluing,
> and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
> I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
>
> Thanks so much for you help!
> Julian
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Tue Feb  2 15:30:05 2010
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:30:05 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>	<e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>
	<005401caa45f$68fd7590$3af860b0$@com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300468@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Which do you recommend...on the wife's best tablecloth (to protect the table), or remove the tablecloth and go directly onto the table surface?  I see merits to both ways...
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
Sent: Tue 2/2/2010 3:28 PM
To: 'rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter



And remember when you take it out of the oven to set it on the kitchen
table.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:33 AM
To: 'Christopher Guenther'; 'Julian Picard'
Cc: 'rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I recommend that if you plan on using the kitchen oven, you wait until the
wife is out.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:03 AM
To: Julian Picard
Cc: rockets
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place.  When the
epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated oven
at 250 for about 30 minutes.  (be sure to constantly check to make sure you
are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking)  If the fincan is to long
for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
ventilation in your kitchen.  Then after it has been oven hardened I started
layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from the
fin to the body.  (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to sharp
corners very well.)  With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember to
give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to bond.
After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I spread
a layer of epoxy from fintip  to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
(remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as the
epoxy sets)  Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and so
on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok but
remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
minutes.  After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I  had reached a
smoothness I liked.  Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
that will phase those fins.  (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
that is  LOL)

Chris Guenther
NAR L2

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the
> University
> of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum diameter, and
> I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the fins.
> What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial gluing,
> and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
> I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
>
> Thanks so much for you help!
> Julian
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From sb at berfield.com  Tue Feb  2 15:34:12 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:34:12 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300468@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>	<e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>	<005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>	<005401caa45f$68fd7590$3af860b0$@com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300468@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <001b01caa460$3a40ee70$aec2cb50$@com>

If you remove the tablecloth first, you can put it back to cover the oops-es
afterward.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 3:30 PM
To: Fred Azinger; rockets
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Which do you recommend...on the wife's best tablecloth (to protect the
table), or remove the tablecloth and go directly onto the table surface?  I
see merits to both ways...
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
Sent: Tue 2/2/2010 3:28 PM
To: 'rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter



And remember when you take it out of the oven to set it on the kitchen
table.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:33 AM
To: 'Christopher Guenther'; 'Julian Picard'
Cc: 'rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I recommend that if you plan on using the kitchen oven, you wait until the
wife is out.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:03 AM
To: Julian Picard
Cc: rockets
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place.  When the
epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated oven
at 250 for about 30 minutes.  (be sure to constantly check to make sure you
are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking)  If the fincan is to long
for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
ventilation in your kitchen.  Then after it has been oven hardened I started
layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from the
fin to the body.  (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to sharp
corners very well.)  With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember to
give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to bond.
After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I spread
a layer of epoxy from fintip  to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
(remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as the
epoxy sets)  Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and so
on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok but
remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
minutes.  After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I  had reached a
smoothness I liked.  Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
that will phase those fins.  (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
that is  LOL)

Chris Guenther
NAR L2

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the
> University
> of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum diameter, and
> I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the fins.
> What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial gluing,
> and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
> I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
>
> Thanks so much for you help!
> Julian
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  




From fred at azinger.com  Tue Feb  2 15:36:37 2010
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:36:37 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300468@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>	<e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>
	<005401caa45f$68fd7590$3af860b0$@com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300468@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <005c01caa460$90df4f10$b29ded30$@com>

DONT BURN YOURSELF!!!
Use the table cloth to protect your hands when you pull from the oven...
Place on bare table surface...

-----Original Message-----
From: Schurke, Peter [mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 3:30 PM
To: Fred Azinger; rockets
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Which do you recommend...on the wife's best tablecloth (to protect the
table), or remove the tablecloth and go directly onto the table surface?  I
see merits to both ways...
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
Sent: Tue 2/2/2010 3:28 PM
To: 'rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter



And remember when you take it out of the oven to set it on the kitchen
table.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:33 AM
To: 'Christopher Guenther'; 'Julian Picard'
Cc: 'rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I recommend that if you plan on using the kitchen oven, you wait until the
wife is out.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:03 AM
To: Julian Picard
Cc: rockets
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place.  When the
epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated oven
at 250 for about 30 minutes.  (be sure to constantly check to make sure you
are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking)  If the fincan is to long
for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
ventilation in your kitchen.  Then after it has been oven hardened I started
layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from the
fin to the body.  (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to sharp
corners very well.)  With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember to
give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to bond.
After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I spread
a layer of epoxy from fintip  to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
(remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as the
epoxy sets)  Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and so
on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok but
remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
minutes.  After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I  had reached a
smoothness I liked.  Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
that will phase those fins.  (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
that is  LOL)

Chris Guenther
NAR L2

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the
> University
> of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum diameter, and
> I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the fins.
> What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial gluing,
> and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
> I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
>
> Thanks so much for you help!
> Julian
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 




From rnech at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 15:21:19 2010
From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:21:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] "Rocket Boys" Homer Hickam against cancelling return to
	Moon
Message-ID: <672815.57799.qm@web111411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

http://www.homerhickam.com/cgi-bin/blog.cgi


      

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Tue Feb  2 18:35:31 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:35:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
In-Reply-To: <54ABE134F5194CD09A45D4C9845B2128@Garylaptop>
References: <SNT131-w23F67928E2BB54E682E31BB2580@phx.gbl><6bc920e41002011837u7a84b028oc2c9b46a4c08028d@mail.gmail.com>
	<007201caa3c9$a682e2b0$f388a810$@com>
	<54ABE134F5194CD09A45D4C9845B2128@Garylaptop>
Message-ID: <fac8c6a140616dfc15237c7bbd6e5063.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

> 20 bucks hidden under the flight card is a good start...

Hey, I'm hard up for cash--a ten will do fine when I'm FSO.  But if you
want to launch a muffler pipe full of whatever was handy, it's gonna cost
you a lot more than that!

Just kidding folks, just kidding.

Except for Azinger.  If he walks by with an old muffler pipe and tells me
it's a new Banana Slug M4321 motor I'll believe him 'cause he's, well, so
confident.  ;-)
+McG+



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
> To: "'Dave Randall'" <dmrandall at gmail.com>; "'Paul Bowers'"
> <padapolis at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "'NW Rocketry Email Forum'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
>
>
> Most important thing to know is how to confidently slide past the RSO and
> go
> to the pad with a look of confidence.... ;-)
>
> (Just Kidding)
> FredA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Dave Randall
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:37 PM
> To: Paul Bowers
> Cc: NW Rocketry Email Forum
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocket Flight Log
>
> There are a couple of aspects to your question.  First is the safety
> aspect. For that, you want to know:
>
> 1. Where is the CP?
> 2. Where is the CG?
> 3. What is your expected altitude?
> 4. What is the thrust to weight ratio?
> 5. Has it flown before in the same configuration?
>
> Items #1 and #2 should be ideally documented (marked) on your rocket.
> Makes it real easy for the RSO.  The other items come from RockSim (or
> other software you're using) and experience flying the rocket.
>
> For your own purposes, it may be more interesting to keep track of
> performance of the rocket in terms of altitude, velocity, total flight
> duration, and flight success, etc... Photos are always well
> complimented with a statistics table.  See
> http://vernk.com/FITS2009.htm for an example of data & photos &
> post-launch writeups done well.
>
> While not particularly consistent from one launch to the next, I try
> to keep my electronic organizer with me in the field for my flight
> log.  I simply have a small text file that I log the rocket, motor and
> altitude.  Most of my altimeters are recording altimeters, so I
> download the files after flying and sync up the rocket information
> with the altimeter data on the computer.
>
> Hope that helps, and I'm sure others will have some more great ideas...
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What data do you record in your flight logs?
>> And what do you use to record your flight data? (Scrap Paper,
> Spreadsheets, Dedicated Software, etc...)
>>
>> I'm getting back into the hobby and would like to eventually build high
> power rockets. I want to get into good data collection habits now, that
> way
> when I do need to present any of it to an RSO for inspection I'll at least
> look like I know what I'm doing. For me a software solution would be the
> most fun and it would give my prep area more of a launch control feel to
> it.
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> - Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From appusher at q.com  Tue Feb  2 19:26:11 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:26:11 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300468@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com>
	<e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>,
	<005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>,
	<005401caa45f$68fd7590$3af860b0$@com>,
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300468@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <COL111-W26734154E83FB7E58444F6DC560@phx.gbl>


depends if you are at Reds house or.......



 
> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:30:05 -0800
> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> To: fred at azinger.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> 
> Which do you recommend...on the wife's best tablecloth (to protect the table), or remove the tablecloth and go directly onto the table surface? I see merits to both ways...
> 
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St.
> Seattle, WA 98133
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
> Sent: Tue 2/2/2010 3:28 PM
> To: 'rockets'
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> 
> 
> 
> And remember when you take it out of the oven to set it on the kitchen
> table.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:33 AM
> To: 'Christopher Guenther'; 'Julian Picard'
> Cc: 'rockets'
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> 
> I recommend that if you plan on using the kitchen oven, you wait until the
> wife is out.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:03 AM
> To: Julian Picard
> Cc: rockets
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> 
> I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
> the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place. When the
> epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
> coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated oven
> at 250 for about 30 minutes. (be sure to constantly check to make sure you
> are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking) If the fincan is to long
> for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
> ventilation in your kitchen. Then after it has been oven hardened I started
> layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
> Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from the
> fin to the body. (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to sharp
> corners very well.) With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember to
> give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
> dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to bond.
> After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I spread
> a layer of epoxy from fintip to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
> (remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
> around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as the
> epoxy sets) Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and so
> on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok but
> remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
> When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
> minutes. After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
> another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I had reached a
> smoothness I liked. Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
> that will phase those fins. (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
> that is LOL)
> 
> Chris Guenther
> NAR L2
> 
> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the
> > University
> > of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum diameter, and
> > I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the fins.
> > What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial gluing,
> > and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
> > I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
> >
> > Thanks so much for you help!
> > Julian
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 20:24:22 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:24:22 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
References: <95ef3e431001291753t551def8bwdf65b7eb5e3f2086@mail.gmail.com><e83b26701002021002r7713dbbao8e3a261acd5eec3a@mail.gmail.com>,
	<005101caa436$2d025fc0$87071f40$@com>,
	<005401caa45f$68fd7590$3af860b0$@com>,
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300468@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<COL111-W26734154E83FB7E58444F6DC560@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <86D9223CE17E432681DFC3F8B47E4CCF@LaptopKrausert>

Peter,
The best approach is thinking ahead. If you use the tablecloth, fine. But 
once you're done, send the dog into the muddy backyard. When the dog comes 
in, toss the tablecloth on the ground for the dog to dry off on. When your 
wife discovers, you also act surprised. Wet dog should cover up epoxy 
smells.

Comments like, "Honey. Not sure what got into him. He's never pulled the 
tablecloth off the table before."

Or, "See? You blame me for everything. But look what the dog just did!?!"

You'll be in the clear. Be careful. Don't do that too often. Don't get 
caught. And don't tell Red. Or you'll need to bribe silence with a 20 year 
old single malt. ;-)

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Munds" <appusher at q.com>
To: "Peter Schurke" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>; "fred azinger" 
<fred at azinger.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter


>
> depends if you are at Reds house or.......
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:30:05 -0800
>> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
>> To: fred at azinger.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> Which do you recommend...on the wife's best tablecloth (to protect the 
>> table), or remove the tablecloth and go directly onto the table surface? 
>> I see merits to both ways...
>>
>> Peter Schurke
>> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
>> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
>> Ingraham High School
>> 1819 N 135th St.
>> Seattle, WA 98133
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Fred Azinger
>> Sent: Tue 2/2/2010 3:28 PM
>> To: 'rockets'
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>>
>>
>> And remember when you take it out of the oven to set it on the kitchen
>> table.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:33 AM
>> To: 'Christopher Guenther'; 'Julian Picard'
>> Cc: 'rockets'
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> I recommend that if you plan on using the kitchen oven, you wait until 
>> the
>> wife is out.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:03 AM
>> To: Julian Picard
>> Cc: rockets
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> I wrapped a coupler with a waxy freezer paper and went completely through
>> the wall to the paper and 30 minute epoxied the fins into place. When the
>> epoxy had set enough to hold and still be a tad pliable I removed the
>> coupler with the waxy paper then popped the fincan into the preheated 
>> oven
>> at 250 for about 30 minutes. (be sure to constantly check to make sure 
>> you
>> are not starting to darken the tubing or smoking) If the fincan is to 
>> long
>> for your oven door to shut that is fine just make sure you have lots of
>> ventilation in your kitchen. Then after it has been oven hardened I 
>> started
>> layering epoxy mixed with milled fiber (you can get milled fiber from Tap
>> Plastics) along the fin root to even it out and to build the curve from 
>> the
>> fin to the body. (Fiber Glass and Carbon Fiber do not like to form to 
>> sharp
>> corners very well.) With each layer I oven hardened again, and remember 
>> to
>> give a light sanding in beteween each layer it will help smooth out any
>> dimples/bubbles etc... and make it easier for the next epoxy layer to 
>> bond.
>> After I reached a point that I was satisfied with my layered curve I 
>> spread
>> a layer of epoxy from fintip to fintip and set my Fiber Glass in place.
>> (remember to measure twice and cut once leaving at least 1/2 an inch all
>> around as in my experience some fiber materials out there do shrink as 
>> the
>> epoxy sets) Then when that has set start the next Fintip to fin tip and 
>> so
>> on until you have done them all the way around at least once, more is ok 
>> but
>> remember the more you add extra the heavier your rockets aft end will be.
>> When the last fintip to fintip has set I oven harden again for about 30
>> minutes. After that I gave it a light sanding to smooth it out and add
>> another thin layer of epoxy, oven harden and repeat until I had reached a
>> smoothness I liked. Unless you have a bad flight there will not be much
>> that will phase those fins. (unless you throw in a motor made by Mike F.
>> that is LOL)
>>
>> Chris Guenther
>> NAR L2
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Julian Picard <jman13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > My name's Julian Picard, and I'm new to the list. I'm here at the
>> > University
>> > of Washington, and I'm working on a building a 54mm minimum diameter, 
>> > and
>> > I'm looking for suggestions on how to better attach the fins.
>> > What I did before is to make shallow fin slots and do some initial 
>> > gluing,
>> > and then solidly glassing (or with carbon fiber) the fin can.
>> > I'm using a pre-glassed phenolic tube, with G10 fins.
>> >
>> > Thanks so much for you help!
>> > Julian
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Tue Feb  2 21:11:29 2010
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:11:29 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] a little humor... (OT)
Message-ID: <30E570FB58714AF59259BA06ECCA52E4@DellNotebook>

 

 

As we flipped channels, I saw the never ending story is still playing,
hence:

 

 

Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, 

and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory,

 and he said to him: "All these things I will give you if you 

fall down and do an act of worship to me. Do two, and I will tell you how
Lost ends."

 

 

John 

 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 21:29:42 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:29:42 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [ot] How to raise funds for rocket season
Message-ID: <014B961DC3874DDCB4CA17C39F8F1C31@LaptopKrausert>

As you all know, this hobby is very inexpensive. Or so we've learned to translate with others. Especially the important person that allows us to live. Here are a few tips on how to raise money for your flying season. Add your own. Many on the list are new, and need the tips.

1. "Darn!!! I got speeding ticket today. That's ok honey, I'll get $500 from the bank and go pay it in cash."

2. "At work today, there was a group doing a fund drive for a special cause. I gave them $500 cash."

3. "Honey. Our escrow witholdings weren't enough to cover this years property taxes. I'll go to the bank, withdrawl $1000 and pay the county office directly. 

OK. I showed you how to raise $2000 for the hobby, free and clear. You can thank me anytime. LOL

Cheers,
Robert

[Disclaimer] Everything said, expressed, or implied are hereby null by me. Whether this brings hardship, bodily harm, forced stomach sleeping for protection, sleeping in the doghouse. I'm hereby held harmless for everything you read, think you read, or wish you read. You might consider this good information. But all information provided is untested, unvalidated, and not warranted by the sender. In the event you are discovered, I'm not to blame. I'm considring this information unwarranted, unsolicated, and free from baklash. He. he. he. 

From terry at mooreread.com  Tue Feb  2 22:46:50 2010
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:46:50 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA's plans to return to the Moon are dead
In-Reply-To: <f18098ae46a608ad8c94e2a4a24a3f75.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <333687.61639.qm@web111412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1756c35306b720060e5688a95289478b.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<2D822ABA-F68D-44D3-8D08-2550627CDCB4@mooreread.com>
	<6ddf8ed90e4a6a773fd9093768f7a811.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<B9D385E6-0E03-4E34-B4A8-B86BF018CE64@mooreread.com>
	<f18098ae46a608ad8c94e2a4a24a3f75.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <4536DFFC-A15E-4F15-837E-EBC7E541D8A4@mooreread.com>

His blog is definately worth reading ... he writes books too : http://www.amazon.com/Philip-C.-Plait/e/B001JSCAUK/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1

On Feb 1, 2010, at 5:13 PM, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:

> Seems Phil Plait and I would see eye to eye pretty well on this!
> 
> "Lead, follow, or get run the hell over" as the old saying goes.  Looks
> like the space entrepreneurs are getting close to doing some serious
> "running the hell over."  :)
> 
> About time...
> +McG+
> 
> 
>> Looks like we may yet find out what SpaceX can do :
>> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/01/president-obamas-nasa-budget-unveiled/
>> 
>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 11:01 PM, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
>> 
>>> It's the White House/Congress/NASA triad that is dysfunctional.  The
>>> traditional aerospace giants have become addicted to generous quantities
>>> of money from the federal teat and thereby force NASA to overspend.
>>> It's
>>> one big orgy of wasteful spending, flawed plans, and inability to
>>> complete
>>> a plan once adopted.  The start-up companies, not yet having had enough
>>> time to become ossified and largely not directly under the control of
>>> Congress or the White House can do things much more efficiently.  Just
>>> compare the development of Ares 1 and Falcon 5.  No contest.
>>> 
>>> If I had the White House setting the goals for a 1/2A model rocket
>>> project, NASA overseeing it and the big aerospace companies doing the
>>> work
>>> it would cost $10 million, be ten years late, fly once and be proclaimed
>>> a
>>> huge success.
>>> 
>>> NASA can still do unmanned probes pretty well but the White House
>>> /Congress /NASA triad just can't develop a space transportation system
>>> within a reasonable budget.  The startups keep politics out of it and do
>>> more than an order of magnitude better.  May be sad, but true.
>>> +McG+
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> That question is simply, could one nasa contractor do better than
>>>> another
>>>> ?  Blame lockheed-martin and cost+profit contracts rather than Nasa.
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2010, at 8:58 PM, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> "NASA has already spent more than $3 billion on Ares I and more than
>>>>> $5
>>>>> billion on the rest of Constellation."
>>>>> 
>>>>> $8 billion and so far one measly one-stage test bed launch.  That's
>>>>> EXACTLY why Ares needs to be euthanized.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now, what kind of results do you suppose SpaceX could get for that
>>>>> kind
>>>>> of
>>>>> money?  Bigelow?  The two together?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm sorry, NASA has become a Brontosaurus in an age of fast, furry
>>>>> mammals.
>>>>> +McG+
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/os-no-moon-for-nasa-20100126,0,2770904.story
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses
>>>> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>>>> 
>>>> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
>>>> privileged material, and is intended solely
>>>> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
>>>> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
>>>> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
>>>> 
>>>> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
>>>> you have received this in error, please notify
>>>> the sender and delete the copy you received.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank You!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses
>> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>> 
>> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
>> privileged material, and is intended solely
>> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
>> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
>> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
>> 
>> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
>> you have received this in error, please notify
>> the sender and delete the copy you received.
>> 
>> Thank You!
>> 
>> 
> 
> 


From carl at mousetrap.com  Wed Feb  3 09:16:51 2010
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:16:51 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace February meeting
Message-ID: <e068dfbd1002030916t31476enbcbc2af9fc830b7e@mail.gmail.com>

The Washington Aerospace meeting for February will be held this Saturday,
the 6th, at the Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup starting at 7:00PM. Here
is an initial agenda for the meeting. If there are other items you would
like to discuss, feel free to send me a message so that I can add them.

FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)

FAA Waivers update (Kent Newman and Carl Hamilton)

Search for a West Side Launch Site (Andrew MacMillen)

Here are some links to Andrew's previous work on the search:
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/forum/
http://washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/n_sites.html
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:%2F%2Fwww.washingtonaerospace.org%2Flaunch_sites%2Flaunch_n_wo_maps.kmz&t=h

Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)

Rocket Talk: Igniters (Kent Newman)

Rocket Talk: Black Powder Charges (Bryan Whitemarsh)

Show and tell (All)


See you this Saturday.

 - Carl

From rnech at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 10:48:59 2010
From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:48:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Guess that propulsion system!
Message-ID: <151529.67546.qm@web111411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Could it possibly an intragalatic spaceship from another solar system?? Looks like the business end of a serious rocket motor or something moving around out there in our solar system.? Who ever it is I hope they have full coverage collision insurance.
?
http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=11254


      

From jman13 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:21:56 2010
From: jman13 at gmail.com (Julian Picard)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:21:56 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
Message-ID: <95ef3e431002031221p50620308jb5268cdc43e7f663@mail.gmail.com>

So along with blaming epoxy smells, burns, and mud on any future wife, dog,
or child I may have, it sounds like the best plan of attack from
a basic standpoint is to start by mixing in some type of fibrous material
with the epoxy in the fillets, and then change the forming process
as needed.

One more question, as far as traditional epoxy goes, I've heard that a few
materials won't adhere making them good for forming fillets, like plastic
wrap and wax paper. Should I worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about JB
Weld?

Thanks for all your help!
Julian

Also, to Jeff Moore, how did the flight go on your minimum 54"? The
wire/kevlar thread idea around the fin can sounds robust, and you didn't
have any problems with cracking around the holes you drilled?
J



-------------------------
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very
average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something
very special.? ~ Stephen Hawking

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 13:07:25 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:07:25 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
Message-ID: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>

I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few  taps 
with a hammer releases cleanly.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
jman13 at gmail.com writes:

Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
Weld?


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:57:11 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:57:11 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>
References: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002031357q7c70e443xe9b854687c5a93bf@mail.gmail.com>

Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.  Then
cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get any
epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That is
where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and the
oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it, she
used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
paints(not the air).

Chris Guenther
NAR L2



On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:

> I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few  taps
> with a hammer releases cleanly.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>
> Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> Weld?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From sb at berfield.com  Wed Feb  3 16:33:04 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:33:04 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Raven
Message-ID: <002d01caa531$9d8a5670$d89f0350$@com>

Hi guys,

 

Finally got around to testing the Raven altimeter with my homemade
e-matches. No problem firing 2 of them on each channel. Yay.

 

-sb


From appusher at q.com  Wed Feb  3 17:50:13 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:50:13 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Raven
In-Reply-To: <002d01caa531$9d8a5670$d89f0350$@com>
References: <002d01caa531$9d8a5670$d89f0350$@com>
Message-ID: <COL111-W59B081F5D3A73E6F20AB13DC550@phx.gbl>


Just looked at the Raven.  Interesting.  The size and function looks workable.


Bill


 
> From: sb at berfield.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:33:04 -0800
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Raven
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> 
> Finally got around to testing the Raven altimeter with my homemade
> e-matches. No problem firing 2 of them on each channel. Yay.
> 
> 
> 
> -sb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From dmrandall at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:58:09 2010
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:58:09 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Raven
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W59B081F5D3A73E6F20AB13DC550@phx.gbl>
References: <002d01caa531$9d8a5670$d89f0350$@com>
	<COL111-W59B081F5D3A73E6F20AB13DC550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6bc920e41002031758o6ab00563n33fbc7987c243f51@mail.gmail.com>

After you hold it, and realize what it does... "workable" becomes
"phenomenal"...

Just my 2c...

Dave

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>
> Just looked at the Raven. ?Interesting. ?The size and function looks workable.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>> From: sb at berfield.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:33:04 -0800
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Raven
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally got around to testing the Raven altimeter with my homemade
>> e-matches. No problem firing 2 of them on each channel. Yay.
>>
>>
>>
>> -sb
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From appusher at q.com  Wed Feb  3 18:00:17 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 02:00:17 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Raven
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e41002031758o6ab00563n33fbc7987c243f51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002d01caa531$9d8a5670$d89f0350$@com>,
	<COL111-W59B081F5D3A73E6F20AB13DC550@phx.gbl>,
	<6bc920e41002031758o6ab00563n33fbc7987c243f51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL111-W12A97A3AE9C5C3A1E46B59DC550@phx.gbl>


I did notice that it doesn't matter which way is up.  That might be a godsend to some who can't see the arrow.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:58:09 -0800
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Raven
> From: dmrandall at gmail.com
> To: appusher at q.com
> CC: sb at berfield.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> 
> After you hold it, and realize what it does... "workable" becomes
> "phenomenal"...
> 
> Just my 2c...
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >
> > Just looked at the Raven.  Interesting.  The size and function looks workable.
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: sb at berfield.com
> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:33:04 -0800
> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Raven
> >>
> >> Hi guys,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Finally got around to testing the Raven altimeter with my homemade
> >> e-matches. No problem firing 2 of them on each channel. Yay.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -sb
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Dave
 		 	   		  

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Wed Feb  3 18:38:26 2010
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:38:26 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace February meeting
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd1002030916t31476enbcbc2af9fc830b7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e068dfbd1002030916t31476enbcbc2af9fc830b7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6A3322.6070508@hawkfeather.com>

Is there a possibility of having a laptop with 'Net access & projector 
there?

Andrew.

Carl Hamilton wrote:
> The Washington Aerospace meeting for February will be held this Saturday,
> the 6th, at the Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup starting at 7:00PM. Here
> is an initial agenda for the meeting. If there are other items you would
> like to discuss, feel free to send me a message so that I can add them.
> 
> FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)
> 
> FAA Waivers update (Kent Newman and Carl Hamilton)
> 
> Search for a West Side Launch Site (Andrew MacMillen)
> 
> Here are some links to Andrew's previous work on the search:
> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/
> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/forum/
> http://washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/n_sites.html
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:%2F%2Fwww.washingtonaerospace.org%2Flaunch_sites%2Flaunch_n_wo_maps.kmz&t=h
> 
> Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)
> 
> Rocket Talk: Igniters (Kent Newman)
> 
> Rocket Talk: Black Powder Charges (Bryan Whitemarsh)
> 
> Show and tell (All)
> 
> 
> See you this Saturday.
> 
>  - Carl
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 

From lsagan123 at msn.com  Wed Feb  3 18:47:38 2010
From: lsagan123 at msn.com (Sareth Tes)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 02:47:38 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Casting Tubes etc
Message-ID: <BLU135-W113CDBEE8B68D3BE045F11E3550@phx.gbl>


Hello EX'ers,

    I realize in the dark ages when one had to go through an apprenticeship that anyone wanting to learn to make their own rocket motors would go through a long process where the first five years they would haul chemicals from the various suppliers back to the shop of the master and then spend the next 5 rolling Casting tubes until they could do so perfectly followed by, If the Master thought they were worthy making nozzles. Once they had become suffucently skillful at that the Master might let them in on the secret and arcane formula's of the art. 

 

But it is now modern times!

 

All of this is leading up to the question of what are the better companies to buy Casting tubes from? and is the method of pouring the slug solid and then drilling better or is the method of using a Mandrel to set the core better?

 

Thanks

Ralph

 

TRA006672

 
 		 	   		  

From fred at azinger.com  Wed Feb  3 19:06:50 2010
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:06:50 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Casting Tubes etc
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W113CDBEE8B68D3BE045F11E3550@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W113CDBEE8B68D3BE045F11E3550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <006d01caa547$1db34770$5919d650$@com>

Talk to John Lyngdal for tube sets......

 

Drill or mandrel -- depends on YOUR choices and needs....

 

I do both.

I ONLY use mandrels for sparkies (where you don't want to drill) or weird
cores like Moon's or Finocyls.

Otherwise I cast full or half sticks and can then cut & core tailored for
the motor configuration of the day....

If you use a mandrel, you've already determined the motor parameters to a
certain degree (you can always re-drill larger)

Using a mandrel system like TruCore also fixes your grain length...another
variable you need to choose early at casting time.

 

I choose maximum flexibility -- cutting and coring at the time I intend to
build a particular motor .

 

This how I choose to do it and why -- YMMV

FredA

 

 

From: members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org
[mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org] On Behalf Of Sareth Tes
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:48 PM
To: RocketsNW Mailing List; OROC Mailing List
Subject: [OROC Members] Casting Tubes etc

 

Hello EX'ers,
    I realize in the dark ages when one had to go through an apprenticeship
that anyone wanting to learn to make their own rocket motors would go
through a long process where the first five years they would haul chemicals
from the various suppliers back to the shop of the master and then spend the
next 5 rolling Casting tubes until they could do so perfectly followed by,
If the Master thought they were worthy making nozzles. Once they had become
suffucently skillful at that the Master might let them in on the secret and
arcane formula's of the art. 
 
But it is now modern times!
 
All of this is leading up to the question of what are the better companies
to buy Casting tubes from? and is the method of pouring the slug solid and
then drilling better or is the method of using a Mandrel to set the core
better?
 
Thanks
Ralph
 
TRA006672
 


From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 19:14:12 2010
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:14:12 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
References: <95ef3e431002031221p50620308jb5268cdc43e7f663@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C19E6D2D3345422CBEAC2788C6ABD9A0@TNTCENTER>

The rocket did 10,750 ft on a K550 on it's maiden voyage.  The motor section 
separated from the tether between the two sections and came in on a flat 
spin and landed about 25 ft away from the rest of the rocket w/o a scratch 
on it.  The airframe is carbon fiber aerosleeve over phenolic tubing.  The 
rocket is over 7 ft long as it was designed for  hybrid motors as well as 
solids.  The motor section is approx. 50 inchs long by itself.  It's pretty 
stout.

Jeff Moore
BORG

p.s. The rocket is actually not finished yet, it still needs a final coat of 
epoxy to fill the weave of the carbon fiber and fiberglass sections.  This 
is the lowest level of performance I expect from it.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Picard" <jman13 at gmail.com>
[snip]

Thanks for all your help!
Julian

Also, to Jeff Moore, how did the flight go on your minimum 54"? The
wire/kevlar thread idea around the fin can sounds robust, and you didn't
have any problems with cracking around the holes you drilled?
J



From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Wed Feb  3 19:22:06 2010
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:22:06 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Casting Tubes etc
In-Reply-To: <006d01caa547$1db34770$5919d650$@com>
References: <BLU135-W113CDBEE8B68D3BE045F11E3550@phx.gbl>
	<006d01caa547$1db34770$5919d650$@com>
Message-ID: <014801caa549$3b71a660$b254f320$@net>

The Dawg Pack uses mandrels, but the smallest diameter that we anticipate
using in that diameter size motor.  This is to eliminate some waste.  We
then drill to final size after the grains are cut to length.

It looks like we may be switching over to a spade bit with a dowel on the
front to serve as a guide down the previous mandrel hole to help keep them
centered.  Worked great the couple of times we used it for >1" cores where
we did not have twist drills.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Fred Azinger
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:07 PM
To: 'Sareth Tes'; 'RocketsNW Mailing List'; 'OROC Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Casting Tubes etc

Talk to John Lyngdal for tube sets......

 

Drill or mandrel -- depends on YOUR choices and needs....

 

I do both.

I ONLY use mandrels for sparkies (where you don't want to drill) or weird
cores like Moon's or Finocyls.

Otherwise I cast full or half sticks and can then cut & core tailored for
the motor configuration of the day....

If you use a mandrel, you've already determined the motor parameters to a
certain degree (you can always re-drill larger)

Using a mandrel system like TruCore also fixes your grain length...another
variable you need to choose early at casting time.

 

I choose maximum flexibility -- cutting and coring at the time I intend to
build a particular motor .

 

This how I choose to do it and why -- YMMV

FredA

 

 

From: members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org
[mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org] On Behalf Of Sareth Tes
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:48 PM
To: RocketsNW Mailing List; OROC Mailing List
Subject: [OROC Members] Casting Tubes etc

 

Hello EX'ers,
    I realize in the dark ages when one had to go through an apprenticeship
that anyone wanting to learn to make their own rocket motors would go
through a long process where the first five years they would haul chemicals
from the various suppliers back to the shop of the master and then spend the
next 5 rolling Casting tubes until they could do so perfectly followed by,
If the Master thought they were worthy making nozzles. Once they had become
suffucently skillful at that the Master might let them in on the secret and
arcane formula's of the art. 
 
But it is now modern times!
 
All of this is leading up to the question of what are the better companies
to buy Casting tubes from? and is the method of pouring the slug solid and
then drilling better or is the method of using a Mandrel to set the core
better?
 
Thanks
Ralph
 
TRA006672
 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From bigredbee at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 19:32:36 2010
From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:32:36 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <C19E6D2D3345422CBEAC2788C6ABD9A0@TNTCENTER>
References: <95ef3e431002031221p50620308jb5268cdc43e7f663@mail.gmail.com>
	<C19E6D2D3345422CBEAC2788C6ABD9A0@TNTCENTER>
Message-ID: <bf3fe8021002031932s483697x20663d2eb41cfa48@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff's method results in an extremely strong fin mounting system, and
probably lets him put the biggest motor he can in it with out fear
(Mike -- got a motor?)  But this surely  sacrifices some altitude.

I flew a min diameter on a K250 to 17K AGL using more traditional
techniques (plywood fins tacked to outside of airframe, kevlar
fillets, 2 x carbon fiber overlay) , and the fins held fine during the
mach+ flight.

http://bigredbee.com/images/k250big.jpg

on the other hand, I flew a K850 a couple of years ago that just had
one layer of carbon, and no fin fillets.  The first few seconds looked
good, but then all heck broke loose, and it came fluttering down in
pieces.

My opinion?  A good reinforced fillet, and 2 layers of carbon "tip to
tip" on the fin can should do well for most flights.

-- Greg



On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> wrote:
> The rocket did 10,750 ft on a K550 on it's maiden voyage. ?The motor section
> separated from the tether between the two sections and came in on a flat
> spin and landed about 25 ft away from the rest of the rocket w/o a scratch
> on it. ?The airframe is carbon fiber aerosleeve over phenolic tubing. ?The
> rocket is over 7 ft long as it was designed for ?hybrid motors as well as
> solids. ?The motor section is approx. 50 inchs long by itself. ?It's pretty
> stout.
>
> Jeff Moore
> BORG
>
> p.s. The rocket is actually not finished yet, it still needs a final coat of
> epoxy to fill the weave of the carbon fiber and fiberglass sections. ?This
> is the lowest level of performance I expect from it.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Picard" <jman13 at gmail.com>
> [snip]
>
> Thanks for all your help!
> Julian
>
> Also, to Jeff Moore, how did the flight go on your minimum 54"? The
> wire/kevlar thread idea around the fin can sounds robust, and you didn't
> have any problems with cracking around the holes you drilled?
> J
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 21:52:34 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:52:34 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] Casting Tubes etc
Message-ID: <2240a.398ee4dd.389bbaa2@aol.com>

OROC member John Lyngdal for liner sets.
 
Drill cores for 38mm and under, coring mandrels for larger.
 
Best of luck,
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/3/2010 6:48:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
lsagan123 at msn.com writes:

All of  this is leading up to the question of what are the better companies 
to buy  Casting tubes from? and is the method of pouring the slug solid and 
then  drilling better or is the method of using a Mandrel to set the core  
better?



From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 22:44:47 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:44:47 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [ot] How to raise funds for rocket season
In-Reply-To: <014B961DC3874DDCB4CA17C39F8F1C31@LaptopKrausert>
References: <014B961DC3874DDCB4CA17C39F8F1C31@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002032244w4fe7c384peb3bc7675407551a@mail.gmail.com>

If you stop by a conveinence store on a daily basis, be it for drinks,
smokes, or food, Pat with your debit card and get $5 or $10 cash back.  Put
that cash in your pocket and do not touch it.  Do this as often as you can
afford to and within a few weeks(if you did it on a daily basis) you should
have enough to get your next batch of motors, Casings, or kits.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> As you all know, this hobby is very inexpensive. Or so we've learned to
> translate with others. Especially the important person that allows us to
> live. Here are a few tips on how to raise money for your flying season. Add
> your own. Many on the list are new, and need the tips.
>
> 1. "Darn!!! I got speeding ticket today. That's ok honey, I'll get $500
> from the bank and go pay it in cash."
>
> 2. "At work today, there was a group doing a fund drive for a special
> cause. I gave them $500 cash."
>
> 3. "Honey. Our escrow witholdings weren't enough to cover this years
> property taxes. I'll go to the bank, withdrawl $1000 and pay the county
> office directly.
>
> OK. I showed you how to raise $2000 for the hobby, free and clear. You can
> thank me anytime. LOL
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> [Disclaimer] Everything said, expressed, or implied are hereby null by me.
> Whether this brings hardship, bodily harm, forced stomach sleeping for
> protection, sleeping in the doghouse. I'm hereby held harmless for
> everything you read, think you read, or wish you read. You might consider
> this good information. But all information provided is untested,
> unvalidated, and not warranted by the sender. In the event you are
> discovered, I'm not to blame. I'm considring this information unwarranted,
> unsolicated, and free from baklash. He. he. he.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From appusher at q.com  Thu Feb  4 01:20:59 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:20:59 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Washington Aerospace February meeting
In-Reply-To: <4B6A3322.6070508@hawkfeather.com>
References: <e068dfbd1002030916t31476enbcbc2af9fc830b7e@mail.gmail.com>,
	<4B6A3322.6070508@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <COL111-W30A7A4E96A65A405809F73DC550@phx.gbl>


I can bring my laptop but Andy said there wasn't net access.

Dale and Robert brought video projector last meeting.

 

Bill


 

 
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:38:26 -0800
> From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com
> To: carl at mousetrap.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org
> Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace February meeting
> 
> Is there a possibility of having a laptop with 'Net access & projector 
> there?
> 
> Andrew.
> 
> Carl Hamilton wrote:
> > The Washington Aerospace meeting for February will be held this Saturday,
> > the 6th, at the Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup starting at 7:00PM. Here
> > is an initial agenda for the meeting. If there are other items you would
> > like to discuss, feel free to send me a message so that I can add them.
> > 
> > FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)
> > 
> > FAA Waivers update (Kent Newman and Carl Hamilton)
> > 
> > Search for a West Side Launch Site (Andrew MacMillen)
> > 
> > Here are some links to Andrew's previous work on the search:
> > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/
> > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/forum/
> > http://washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/n_sites.html
> > http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:%2F%2Fwww.washingtonaerospace.org%2Flaunch_sites%2Flaunch_n_wo_maps.kmz&t=h
> > 
> > Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)
> > 
> > Rocket Talk: Igniters (Kent Newman)
> > 
> > Rocket Talk: Black Powder Charges (Bryan Whitemarsh)
> > 
> > Show and tell (All)
> > 
> > 
> > See you this Saturday.
> > 
> > - Carl
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> members mailing list
> members at washingtonaerospace.org
> http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org
 		 	   		  

From appusher at q.com  Thu Feb  4 01:38:34 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:38:34 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace February meeting
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd1002030916t31476enbcbc2af9fc830b7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e068dfbd1002030916t31476enbcbc2af9fc830b7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL111-W4462E26C9D6486D2701D6ADC550@phx.gbl>


Carl, Kent, Bryan

At the mention of finding a new launch site I took another look at Andrew's proposed sites.

Skagit County's Parcel search is a wonderful thing!  A bit of a learning curve for extraction speed with maps but in no time I gleaned a wealth of information.
I pulled information for Butler Flats, Lyman, and Chuckanut 2 and 3.  Lyman is up there a ways but seems the best fit.  About 200 acres by one owner.

Second is Butler Flats.  Two brothers own or control about 3/4 of a section.  Few other owners that might not object with recovery efforts.

Chuckanut 2 and 3 are small 'owner areas' with few others to deal with recovery.  Not the best situation, but workable.

I have owner's names and addresses.  I should probably organized the information a bit more if I have time.

We could add this to the agenda for an over view of what information I came up with and then decide how to approach it.

 

Andrew's Google Map he setup made it very easy to stay focused on areas that were encumbered by over flight airspace.

I think I'll try some of the other areas that he posted a well.  Parcel search is getting easier.  It helps to know an owners name before you knock on the door.

 

Bill






 
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:16:51 -0800
> From: carl at mousetrap.com
> To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace February meeting
> 
> The Washington Aerospace meeting for February will be held this Saturday,
> the 6th, at the Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup starting at 7:00PM. Here
> is an initial agenda for the meeting. If there are other items you would
> like to discuss, feel free to send me a message so that I can add them.
> 
> FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)
> 
> FAA Waivers update (Kent Newman and Carl Hamilton)
> 
> Search for a West Side Launch Site (Andrew MacMillen)
> 
> Here are some links to Andrew's previous work on the search:
> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/
> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/forum/
> http://washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/n_sites.html
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:%2F%2Fwww.washingtonaerospace.org%2Flaunch_sites%2Flaunch_n_wo_maps.kmz&t=h
> 
> Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)
> 
> Rocket Talk: Igniters (Kent Newman)
> 
> Rocket Talk: Black Powder Charges (Bryan Whitemarsh)
> 
> Show and tell (All)
> 
> 
> See you this Saturday.
> 
> - Carl
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From arrsales at cox.net  Thu Feb  4 03:33:12 2010
From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:33:12 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] Casting Tubes etc
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W113CDBEE8B68D3BE045F11E3550@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W113CDBEE8B68D3BE045F11E3550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <80C5065E159E442DA8749861E745C54A@apcp.local>


John Lyngdal (your neck of the woods) john_lyngdal at verizon.net
He should have everything you need.

Jeff from Loki Research 

and of course me. :-) (Randy @ARR) but mine are more specialty items
(casting tube and liner sets for long burn 54 & 75mm motors, Aerotech
compatible 38 & 54mm sets, etc).


Randy
Always Ready Rocketry
www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com
arrsales at cox.net


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Sareth Tes
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:48 PM
To: RocketsNW Mailing List; OROC Mailing List
Subject: [RocketsNW] Casting Tubes etc


Hello EX'ers,

    I realize in the dark ages when one had to go through an apprenticeship
that anyone wanting to learn to make their own rocket motors would go
through a long process where the first five years they would haul chemicals
from the various suppliers back to the shop of the master and then spend the
next 5 rolling Casting tubes until they could do so perfectly followed by,
If the Master thought they were worthy making nozzles. Once they had become
suffucently skillful at that the Master might let them in on the secret and
arcane formula's of the art. 

 

But it is now modern times!

 

All of this is leading up to the question of what are the better companies
to buy Casting tubes from? and is the method of pouring the slug solid and
then drilling better or is the method of using a Mandrel to set the core
better?

 

Thanks

Ralph

 

TRA006672

 
 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Thu Feb  4 08:55:27 2010
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:55:27 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Washington Aerospace February meeting
In-Reply-To: <4B6A4924.707@hawkfeather.com>
References: <e068dfbd1002030916t31476enbcbc2af9fc830b7e@mail.gmail.com>	<4B6A3322.6070508@hawkfeather.com>
	<4B6A4924.707@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <4B6AFBFF.3030608@hawkfeather.com>

Robert Geer will have several laptops with wireless modems, so that's 
covered. Still looking for a projector for one of them.

Andrew.

> Andrew MacMillen wrote:
>> Is there a possibility of having a laptop with 'Net access & projector 
>> there?
>>
>> Andrew.
>>
>> Carl Hamilton wrote:
>>> The Washington Aerospace meeting for February will be held this 
>>> Saturday,
>>> the 6th, at the Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup starting at 7:00PM. 
>>> Here
>>> is an initial agenda for the meeting. If there are other items you would
>>> like to discuss, feel free to send me a message so that I can add them.
>>>
>>> FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)
>>>
>>> FAA Waivers update (Kent Newman and Carl Hamilton)
>>>
>>> Search for a West Side Launch Site (Andrew MacMillen)
>>>
>>> Here are some links to Andrew's previous work on the search:
>>> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/
>>> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/forum/
>>> http://washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/n_sites.html
>>> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:%2F%2Fwww.washingtonaerospace.org%2Flaunch_sites%2Flaunch_n_wo_maps.kmz&t=h 
>>>
>>>
>>> Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)
>>>
>>> Rocket Talk: Igniters (Kent Newman)
>>>
>>> Rocket Talk: Black Powder Charges (Bryan Whitemarsh)
>>>
>>> Show and tell (All)
>>>
>>>
>>> See you this Saturday.
>>>
>>>  - Carl
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> members mailing list
> members at washingtonaerospace.org
> http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org 
> 
> 

From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Thu Feb  4 09:09:15 2010
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:09:15 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002031357q7c70e443xe9b854687c5a93bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>
	<e83b26701002031357q7c70e443xe9b854687c5a93bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840961@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>

That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own heated and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet) and build and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone knows, we can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place smelling like epoxy or paint.  :) 

Right guys???  No building in the house! :)  

Angela Dinese Wright 
425-443-5049
Angelawr at wrightholdings.com

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.  Then
cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get any
epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That is
where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and the
oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it, she
used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
paints(not the air).

Chris Guenther
NAR L2



On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:

> I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few  taps
> with a hammer releases cleanly.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>
> Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> Weld?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Feb  4 09:19:46 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:19:46 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] Casting Tubes etc
Message-ID: <b382.36194abb.389c5bb2@aol.com>

I've heard that the Blue Tube has been holding up well for long burn and  
high metals.
 
Last I heard, Loki was buying liners from John, so probably doesn't make  
sense for John to ship them to Jeff so that Jeff can ship them back to  PDX.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/4/2010 3:33:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
arrsales at cox.net writes:

John  Lyngdal (your neck of the woods) john_lyngdal at verizon.net
He should have  everything you need.

Jeff from Loki Research 

and of course me.  :-) (Randy @ARR) but mine are more specialty items
(casting tube and liner  sets for long burn 54 & 75mm motors, Aerotech
compatible 38 & 54mm  sets, etc).


Randy
Always Ready  Rocketry
www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com
arrsales at cox.net



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Feb  4 09:31:41 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:31:41 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
Message-ID: <ba6e.2ee32204.389c5e7d@aol.com>

My house is the shop....no kidding.  I build rockets wherever I  want.  I 
degrease freshly machined motor casings in the shower.  I dip  igniters at 
the dining room table.  And, my wife helps me.  She even  makes parachutes in 
the living room.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/4/2010 9:16:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
angelawr at wrightholdings.com writes:

Right  guys???  No building in the house! :)   


From arrsales at cox.net  Thu Feb  4 09:56:55 2010
From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:56:55 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] Casting Tubes etc
In-Reply-To: <b382.36194abb.389c5bb2@aol.com>
References: <b382.36194abb.389c5bb2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4758948849004E17972C4C42CC6A66BA@apcp.local>

Thanx for the plug Mike. :-)  It does ok, AMW uses it in their classic
reloads and some ProX.  It turns into a pretty crispy critter with some of
AMW's hot loads, but fares well otherwise.  Some of the driving force for
using it was made by Paul Robinson at the time as an alternative cost saving
measure of having to replace brittle phenolic liners that were damaged in
shipment or somehow got cracked.  His logic was that it would save AMW money
even though it cost more for pure vulcanized fiber due to that.  We fired
some motors with Blue Tube liners when he came to visit Tripoli Tampa.  That
was the last time I saw him in person before his passing. 

 

I have a few on hand, but my specialty sets are standard phenolic. The long
burn sets fit Loki, Gorilla, etc and the standard sets are for AT.  They are
a double phenolic with a kraft casting tube.  The boys in Texas tried
something like an M500.  It burned for about 12-14 seconds.  It was pretty
much toast but the motor was ok.  I didn't design them for anymore than 8 to
10 seconds but you could probably push to 12 with a lower temp formulation.
:)

 

  _____  

From: Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:20 PM
To: arrsales at cox.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Casting Tubes etc

 

I've heard that the Blue Tube has been holding up well for long burn and
high metals.

 

Last I heard, Loki was buying liners from John, so probably doesn't make
sense for John to ship them to Jeff so that Jeff can ship them back to PDX.

 

Mike F.

 

In a message dated 2/4/2010 3:33:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
arrsales at cox.net writes:

John Lyngdal (your neck of the woods) john_lyngdal at verizon.net
He should have everything you need.

Jeff from Loki Research 

and of course me. :-) (Randy @ARR) but mine are more specialty items
(casting tube and liner sets for long burn 54 & 75mm motors, Aerotech
compatible 38 & 54mm sets, etc).


Randy
Always Ready Rocketry
www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com
arrsales at cox.net


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 13:38:24 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:38:24 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <ba6e.2ee32204.389c5e7d@aol.com>
References: <ba6e.2ee32204.389c5e7d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002041338m4d948b00u99628913befbb9a7@mail.gmail.com>

That would be great for those who have outside shops but those of us in
apartments and houses with no land we stick to trying not to get caught
building while the wife is out.

Chris Guenther
NAR L2

Right guys???  No building in the house! :)

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:31 AM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:

> My house is the shop....no kidding.  I build rockets wherever I  want.  I
> degrease freshly machined motor casings in the shower.  I dip  igniters at
> the dining room table.  And, my wife helps me.  She even  makes parachutes
> in
> the living room.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/4/2010 9:16:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> angelawr at wrightholdings.com writes:
>
> Right  guys???  No building in the house! :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From johnhawkins at wavecable.com  Thu Feb  4 14:02:03 2010
From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com (John Hawkins)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:02:03 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840961@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>	<e83b26701002031357q7c70e443xe9b854687c5a93bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840961@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <001901caa5e5$aeed1fb0$0cc75f10$@com>

God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just for
building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she has
even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table. So I
say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own heated
and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet) and build
and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone knows, we
can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place smelling
like epoxy or paint.  :) 

Right guys???  No building in the house! :)  

Angela Dinese Wright 
425-443-5049
Angelawr at wrightholdings.com

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.  Then
cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get any
epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That is
where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and the
oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it, she
used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
paints(not the air).

Chris Guenther
NAR L2



On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:

> I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few  taps
> with a hammer releases cleanly.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>
> Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> Weld?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Thu Feb  4 15:24:23 2010
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:24:23 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <001901caa5e5$aeed1fb0$0cc75f10$@com>
References: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>
	<e83b26701002031357q7c70e443xe9b854687c5a93bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840961@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<001901caa5e5$aeed1fb0$0cc75f10$@com>
Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840E87@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the SHOP!  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :) 

Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :) 

RED





-----Original Message-----
From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; Mfreptiles at aol.com
Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just for
building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she has
even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table. So I
say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own heated
and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet) and build
and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone knows, we
can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place smelling
like epoxy or paint.  :) 

Right guys???  No building in the house! :)  

Angela Dinese Wright 
425-443-5049
Angelawr at wrightholdings.com

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.  Then
cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get any
epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That is
where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and the
oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it, she
used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
paints(not the air).

Chris Guenther
NAR L2



On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:

> I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few  taps
> with a hammer releases cleanly.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>
> Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> Weld?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  





From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 15:38:47 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840E87@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>
	<e83b26701002031357q7c70e443xe9b854687c5a93bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840961@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<001901caa5e5$aeed1fb0$0cc75f10$@com>
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840E87@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002041538l2505699dl75e727fcd2af2cdb@mail.gmail.com>

Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect, habbit,
adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I build my
rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the wife she
knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she is home.
That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in build
mode.

Chris

Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)



On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:

> Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the SHOP!
>  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
>
> Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
>
> RED
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
> To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just for
> building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she has
> even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table. So I
> say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
> To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own heated
> and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet) and
> build
> and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone knows, we
> can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place smelling
> like epoxy or paint.  :)
>
> Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
>
> Angela Dinese Wright
> 425-443-5049
> Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
> To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.  Then
> cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get any
> epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That is
> where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and the
> oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it, she
> used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
> paints(not the air).
>
> Chris Guenther
> NAR L2
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few
>  taps
> > with a hammer releases cleanly.
> >
> > Mike F.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
> >
> > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> > Weld?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
>
>
>

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Feb  4 15:55:26 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:55:26 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
Message-ID: <1894c.a5241e0.389cb86e@aol.com>

I thought that was what the couch was for, silly me.  Too many rockets  on 
the table to eat there. :)
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/4/2010 3:25:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
angelawr at wrightholdings.com writes:

Remember  dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)  


From holdencurrency at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 20:25:06 2010
From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 04:25:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Regarding: NEW KITS Just IN at Holdens Hobbies! (Auburn
	WA)
In-Reply-To: <1879366133.3104021265343897106.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1936255742.3104161265343906947.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



Just thought I'd let?every know that I received a new Shipment of Madcow Rocketry Kits! The shipment included the new Pac 3 (Two Sizes) and the Prion ( SWEET KIT ). Both of these kits will be at the Club meeting this Saturday for you to view. (Meeting in Puyallup WA). If any one is looking for specific kits please e-mail me off line & I can try to bring it to the meeting. 



Best Regards, 

Chris Holden 

www.holdenshobbies.com

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Thu Feb  4 20:27:25 2010
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 04:27:25 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Washington Aerospace February meeting
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W30A7A4E96A65A405809F73DC550@phx.gbl>
References: <e068dfbd1002030916t31476enbcbc2af9fc830b7e@mail.gmail.com>,
	<4B6A3322.6070508@hawkfeather.com>
	<COL111-W30A7A4E96A65A405809F73DC550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF245075C8@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Last time I tried there were several "available" network connections in range ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:21 AM
To: Andrew MacMillen; Carl Hamilton
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com; WAC LIST
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Washington Aerospace February meeting


I can bring my laptop but Andy said there wasn't net access.

Dale and Robert brought video projector last meeting.

 

Bill


 

 
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:38:26 -0800
> From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com
> To: carl at mousetrap.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org
> Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace February 
> meeting
> 
> Is there a possibility of having a laptop with 'Net access & projector 
> there?
> 
> Andrew.
> 
> Carl Hamilton wrote:
> > The Washington Aerospace meeting for February will be held this 
> > Saturday, the 6th, at the Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup starting 
> > at 7:00PM. Here is an initial agenda for the meeting. If there are 
> > other items you would like to discuss, feel free to send me a message so that I can add them.
> > 
> > FITS Update (Dave Randall and Brad Wright)
> > 
> > FAA Waivers update (Kent Newman and Carl Hamilton)
> > 
> > Search for a West Side Launch Site (Andrew MacMillen)
> > 
> > Here are some links to Andrew's previous work on the search:
> > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/
> > http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/forum/
> > http://washingtonaerospace.org/launch_sites/n_sites.html
> > http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http:%2F%2Fwww.washingtonaerospace.org
> > %2Flaunch_sites%2Flaunch_n_wo_maps.kmz&t=h
> > 
> > Upscale AT Mustang Update (Kent Newman)
> > 
> > Rocket Talk: Igniters (Kent Newman)
> > 
> > Rocket Talk: Black Powder Charges (Bryan Whitemarsh)
> > 
> > Show and tell (All)
> > 
> > 
> > See you this Saturday.
> > 
> > - Carl
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> members mailing list
> members at washingtonaerospace.org
> http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaero
> space.org
 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 09:23:55 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:23:55 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Regarding: NEW KITS Just IN at Holdens Hobbies!
	(Auburn WA)
In-Reply-To: <1936255742.3104161265343906947.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1879366133.3104021265343897106.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<1936255742.3104161265343906947.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002050923u436073b7i23876ee05ad0994f@mail.gmail.com>

Chris H.

I think you should know this about your web site.  It may be keeping people
away as it does not allow us to go to your site without telling it to ignore
the protection settings.  Most people will just not go in this case.

Safe Browsing*Diagnostic page for* holdenshobbies.com

*What is the current listing status for holdenshobbies.com?*

Site is listed as suspicious - visiting this web site may harm your
computer.

Part of this site was listed for suspicious activity 2 time(s) over the past
90 days.

*What happened when Google visited this site?*

Of the 2 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 2 page(s)
resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user
consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2010-01-21, and the
last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2010-01-21.

Malicious software includes 2 scripting exploit(s). Successful infection
resulted in an average of 1 new process(es) on the target machine.

Malicious software is hosted on 2 domain(s), including
nt202.cn/<http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=nt202.cn/>,
nt010.cn/<http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=nt010.cn/>
.

1 domain(s) appear to be functioning as intermediaries for distributing
malware to visitors of this site, including
holdencurrency.com/<http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=holdencurrency.com/>
.

This site was hosted on 1 network(s) including AS26496
(PAH)<http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=AS:26496>
.

*Has this site acted as an intermediary resulting in further distribution of
malware?*

Over the past 90 days, holdenshobbies.com did not appear to function as an
intermediary for the infection of any sites.

*Has this site hosted malware?*

No, this site has not hosted malicious software over the past 90 days.

*How did this happen?*

In some cases, third parties can add malicious code to legitimate sites,
which would cause us to show the warning message.

*Next steps:*

   - Return to the previous
page.<http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=http://www.holdenshobbies.com/#>
   - If you are the owner of this web site, you can request a review of your
   site using Google Webmaster Tools<http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/>.
   More information about the review process is available in Google's Webmaster
   Help Center<http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=45432>
   .



On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Chris Holden <holdencurrency at comcast.net>wrote:

>
>
> Just thought I'd let every know that I received a new Shipment of Madcow
> Rocketry Kits! The shipment included the new Pac 3 (Two Sizes) and the Prion
> ( SWEET KIT ). Both of these kits will be at the Club meeting this Saturday
> for you to view. (Meeting in Puyallup WA). If any one is looking for
> specific kits please e-mail me off line & I can try to bring it to the
> meeting.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Chris Holden
>
> www.holdenshobbies.com
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net  Fri Feb  5 09:32:15 2010
From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:32:15 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups
In-Reply-To: <392865.18457.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <88aad861cd5fab79e0f846e1385cc17c.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<392865.18457.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02e401caa689$293eeac0$7bbcc040$@Dennis42@comcast.net>

Whether or not silk is good at adding strength it (or most any other cloth)
can be very good at providing a good and colorful finish to a rocket.  Look
at the picture Jack Anderson posted!  I've used (Dave Randall too) has used
"Chromaveil <http://www.fibreglast.com/category/Chromaveil> ", available at
Fibreglast, to dress up some rockets.

 

I used some cloth I bought at "Linens & Things" (before they went out of
business) to make my "Elvis" rocket.  This gave it a black and shiny gold,
almost sequined, "flashy" look.  Something impossible with any kind of
painting.  The only real trick was after doing the initial layup and doing
some very, very light sanding - I then put a finish coat of resin over it.
The result was a very shiny look, but at the cost of some additional weight.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Sam Grado
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:02 PM
To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

 

My wife tends to think that I have come up with some of the weirdest ideas
she has ever heard; so you may be on to something! 8^{)

 

Sam Grado

TRA L2

 

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

 

sales at pvconly.com

http://www.pvconly.com

http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html

http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

 

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
<kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:

 

 

From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>

Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>

Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com

Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 6:50 PM

 

 

You'll never know until you try it.  Some of the most significant advances

in hobby rocketry have come from some of the seemingly weirdest ideas.

+McG+

 

 

> I haven't found any information like that as of yet. My investigation is

> ongoing.

>  

> However, since I was a child I have heard and read that silk strands were

> stronger than steel strands. To date, I have not heard of a single

> skyscraper or so much as an outbuilding made from silk, but I did hear

> about bullet-proof vests, airplane airframes and Samari armor made from

> silk.

>  

> It is easily wet out by resin, so I thought it might merit some

> further investigation. As with all things rocketry, this can't be an

> original idea, hense my post to the forum and my purchase of a bolt of

> fabric from a window treatments store in Scottsville.

> 

> Sam Grado

> TRA L2

> 

> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

> 

> sales at pvconly.com

> http://www.pvconly.com

> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html

> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

> 

> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> From: greg at blastzone.com <greg at blastzone.com>

> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>

> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com

> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:51 PM

> 

> 

> Is there some indication that silk provides the same

> strength/stiffness/whatever as carbon fiber? 

> 

> 

> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:47:46 -0800 (PST), Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com>

> wrote:

>> Well that is what I was considering.

>>  

>> There are industrial grades of silk cloth and the price per yard seemed

>> affordable compared to CF cloth.

>>  

>> I am exploring the use of silk to augment or replace some CF in airframe

>> and fin lay-ups.

>> 

>> Sam Grado

>> TRA L2

>> 

>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

>> 

>> sales at pvconly.com

>> http://www.pvconly.com

>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html

>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

>> 

>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>

>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

>> To: vonrang at yahoo.com, "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>,

>> rockets at rocketsnw.com

>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 12:53 PM

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Sam,

>> Why not test it?  Newspaper and white glue work pretty well structurally

>> (Jr. High science project).

>> I would think that silk being pretty strong by itself would work if in

>> multiple layers in different directions.

>>  

>> Hmmm.......

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>>  

>>> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:33:48 -0800

>>> From: vonrang at yahoo.com

>>> To: dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com

>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

>>> 

>>> Yes, silk fabric for axial flexture and sheer strength.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Sam Grado

>>> TRA L2

>>> 

>>> "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

>>> 

>>> sales at pvconly.com

>>> http://www.pvconly.com

>>> http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html

>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

>>> 

>>> --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com> wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>

>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Silk Lay-Ups

>>> To: "Sam Grado" <vonrang at yahoo.com>

>>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:40 AM

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Sam,

>>> 

>>> I've embedded different cloths in a couple of rockets for decorative

>>> purposes (not strength)... Is that what you're asking about, or is it

>>> for strength?

>>> 

>>> Dave

>>> 

>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Sam Grado <vonrang at yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> > Has anyone here worked with silk cloth for airframe lay-ups?

>>> >

>>> > Sam Grado

>>> > TRA L2

>>> >

>>> > "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

>>> >

>>> > sales at pvconly.com

>>> > http://www.pvconly.com

>>> > http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html

>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

>>> >

>>> >

>>> >

>>> > _______________________________________________

>>> > Rockets mailing list

>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com

>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

>>> >

>>> >

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> --

>>> - Dave

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Rockets mailing list

>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com

>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>>       

>> _______________________________________________

>> Rockets mailing list

>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com

>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

> _______________________________________________

> Rockets mailing list

> Rockets at rocketsnw.com

> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

>  

> 

> 

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Rockets mailing list

> Rockets at rocketsnw.com

> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

> 

> 

 

 

_______________________________________________

Rockets mailing list

Rockets at rocketsnw.com

http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

  

 

 

 

      

_______________________________________________

Rockets mailing list

Rockets at rocketsnw.com

http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

  


From appusher at q.com  Fri Feb  5 16:05:17 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:05:17 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] site research
Message-ID: <COL111-W58655BFA48226F9D649BB8DC530@phx.gbl>



Andrew,

 

Are you going to open up the research site forum again.

If it is still open, I see my name as a member.  I don't have or know the code to get in.

I pulled and printed the 'Potenial WAC Launchsite Parameters and added areas of information to collect.

I have this information printed but can setup an electronic file.  Personal private information issues there thou.

 

I have land ownership data for Butler Flats, Fir Island, Lyman, Calhoun/Bradshaw.

I am working on alternates for each of the above in the same area progressing outward.

Dave and I have been working with a land owner off Farm to Market Rd and Sunset Rd.  He declined our using his site for the club thou.

Alternate sites are abundant in that area thou.  Exploring adjacent land in that area

 

Information accumulated: Google area map(satellite), parcel map, parcel owner addresses, approx land size with each owner, larger owner land groups/ with recovery area owner information.

I have no information on airspace so you might help there or direct me to where I can get it.

Also, do you have a location to get historical weather info for a particular area?


Last Rack Bill

(list has been quiet, needed something to do)








 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me 		 	   		  

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Fri Feb  5 16:20:55 2010
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:20:55 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] site research
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W58655BFA48226F9D649BB8DC530@phx.gbl>
References: <COL111-W58655BFA48226F9D649BB8DC530@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B6CB5E7.3090205@hawkfeather.com>

I can open the forum back up if there's interest at the meeting. I was 
getting too many spammer scum and no legit activity.

I can do airspace with a link layer to the FAA sectionals in Google 
Earth, then draw the appropriate elements. That's how I did the northern 
  sites details. If we move forward I can add it to all the sites. And 
it's the only electronic way I've found of doing it. The data is several 
years old and may be out of date, but is also therefor free.

WeatherUnderground has pretty thorough historical data, at least for 
NOAA stations. Some PWS (personal weather stations) may have historical 
data closer to a particular site, but not as far back or complete.

Andrew.

Bill Munds wrote:
> 
> Andrew,
> 
>  
> 
> Are you going to open up the research site forum again.
> 
> If it is still open, I see my name as a member.  I don't have or know the code to get in.
> 
> I pulled and printed the 'Potenial WAC Launchsite Parameters and added areas of information to collect.
> 
> I have this information printed but can setup an electronic file.  Personal private information issues there thou.
> 
>  
> 
> I have land ownership data for Butler Flats, Fir Island, Lyman, Calhoun/Bradshaw.
> 
> I am working on alternates for each of the above in the same area progressing outward.
> 
> Dave and I have been working with a land owner off Farm to Market Rd and Sunset Rd.  He declined our using his site for the club thou.
> 
> Alternate sites are abundant in that area thou.  Exploring adjacent land in that area
> 
>  
> 
> Information accumulated: Google area map(satellite), parcel map, parcel owner addresses, approx land size with each owner, larger owner land groups/ with recovery area owner information.
> 
> I have no information on airspace so you might help there or direct me to where I can get it.
> 
> Also, do you have a location to get historical weather info for a particular area?
> 
> 
> Last Rack Bill
> 
> (list has been quiet, needed something to do)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me 		 	   		  

From sb at berfield.com  Fri Feb  5 18:56:34 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:56:34 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
Message-ID: <998b0521002051856t135d803fvbea392dca36ec706@mail.gmail.com>

Posted two more pictures of the 75 mm miniimum diameter bird. Fins on and
glassed, everything filled and primed. Almost ready to paint.
http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject#

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Fri Feb  5 19:06:24 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 22:06:24 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
Message-ID: <1c1a0.636bb921.389e36b0@aol.com>

Fins look small IMO.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/5/2010 6:57:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
sb at berfield.com writes:

Posted  two more pictures of the 75 mm miniimum diameter bird. Fins on and
glassed,  everything filled and primed. Almost ready to  paint.
http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject#
_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:33:00 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:33:00 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
References: <1c1a0.636bb921.389e36b0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <33A9269EDDAB40E097B63633DDFBFFB5@LaptopKrausert>

Mike,
Fins look fine for a dart. Certainly, looking at the images, a caliber 
exists.

Maybe offer Scott one of you 75mm mixtures to try. Like a 75mm mini-S motor. 
Tall enough to take a lot of fast-burn half caliber grains. Burn baby, burn.

Nut'in like a 75mm dart beating a 44 magnum bullet in a race.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
To: <sb at berfield.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots


> Fins look small IMO.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/5/2010 6:57:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> sb at berfield.com writes:
>
> Posted  two more pictures of the 75 mm miniimum diameter bird. Fins on and
> glassed,  everything filled and primed. Almost ready to  paint.
> http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject#
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets  mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From sb at berfield.com  Fri Feb  5 20:11:01 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:11:01 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
In-Reply-To: <33A9269EDDAB40E097B63633DDFBFFB5@LaptopKrausert>
References: <1c1a0.636bb921.389e36b0@aol.com>
	<33A9269EDDAB40E097B63633DDFBFFB5@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <998b0521002052011r12a66dcs22d6e18363f6c4eb@mail.gmail.com>

Sims out just fine. Looks like around 20K on an M650.

On the other hand, maybe NOT on one of Mike's monsters... I'd like to fly it
more than once. :)

Scott

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> Mike,
> Fins look fine for a dart. Certainly, looking at the images, a caliber
> exists.
>
> Maybe offer Scott one of you 75mm mixtures to try. Like a 75mm mini-S
> motor. Tall enough to take a lot of fast-burn half caliber grains. Burn
> baby, burn.
>
> Nut'in like a 75mm dart beating a 44 magnum bullet in a race.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
> To: <sb at berfield.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 7:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
>
>
>
> Fins look small IMO.
>>
>> Mike F.
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 2/5/2010 6:57:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> sb at berfield.com writes:
>>
>> Posted  two more pictures of the 75 mm miniimum diameter bird. Fins on and
>> glassed,  everything filled and primed. Almost ready to  paint.
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject#
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets  mailing  list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>

From dave at skagitlapidary.com  Sat Feb  6 11:15:20 2010
From: dave at skagitlapidary.com (Dave Ebersole)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:15:20 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Hitch a ride
Message-ID: <4B6DBFC8.30908@skagitlapidary.com>

Hi All,

I would like to attend the WAC Meeting tonight, and
I was wondering if I could catch a ride with anyone
going south from the Mount Vernon Area?

Dave Ebersole


From jhadv at pacifier.com  Sat Feb  6 12:16:10 2010
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:16:10 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1265486404.23153.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20100206121541.03203fe8@mail.iinet.com>

At 12:00 PM 2/6/2010 -0800, you wrote:  Posted two more pictures of the 75 
mm miniimum diameter bird. Fins on and
>glassed, everything filled and primed. Almost ready to paint.


Nice



From sealtee at cableone.net  Sat Feb  6 13:31:47 2010
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:31:47 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
Message-ID: <008401caa773$c9816ae0$5c8440a0$@net>

Ummmm, Scot?

 

That's not a dining room table under that rocket of yours, is it?

 

Just wondering..

 

 

Cameron

 

 

 

 

Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:56:34 -0800

From: Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com>

To: rockets at rocketsnw.com

Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots

Message-ID:

      <998b0521002051856t135d803fvbea392dca36ec706 at mail.gmail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 

Posted two more pictures of the 75 mm miniimum diameter bird. Fins on and
glassed, everything filled and primed. Almost ready to paint.

http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject#

 


From johnhawkins at wavecable.com  Sat Feb  6 14:18:28 2010
From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com (John Hawkins)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:18:28 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
In-Reply-To: <008401caa773$c9816ae0$5c8440a0$@net>
References: <008401caa773$c9816ae0$5c8440a0$@net>
Message-ID: <003501caa77a$4eec05e0$ecc411a0$@com>

that looks like my dining room table

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Cameron Tinder
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:32 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots

Ummmm, Scot?

 

That's not a dining room table under that rocket of yours, is it?

 

Just wondering..

 

 

Cameron

 

 

 

 

Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:56:34 -0800

From: Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com>

To: rockets at rocketsnw.com

Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots

Message-ID:

      <998b0521002051856t135d803fvbea392dca36ec706 at mail.gmail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 

Posted two more pictures of the 75 mm miniimum diameter bird. Fins on and
glassed, everything filled and primed. Almost ready to paint.

http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject#

 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:23:18 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:23:18 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] The Dining Room Table
References: <008401caa773$c9816ae0$5c8440a0$@net>
Message-ID: <4768E6E04BFC4E1F9927A0C565B3E070@LaptopKrausert>

Angela "Red,"
It's kind of like when you first discover a ground based Yellowjacket hive. 
You stare at it. For a long time, you simply stare at it. Then you throw a 
rock at it. But remain at a safe distance. Then after much monitoring, you 
decide to poke it with a stick and run back to a safe distance. Only to see 
a minor swarm to appear. Time goes by. You attack, poking with a stick over 
and over. Each time a little more bold. You will reach and pass beyond the 
threshold, and likely encounter a fast run down the street, run back towards 
home, and hide inside. At which time, you discovered that you found the way 
to properly stir-up the hornets nest.

So why the story? Basically, some idiot brang up the Dining Room table 
discussion we all had years ago. And those on the listserv that remembered 
the conversation, recalled your opinion regarding the topic.

While I've never met you. Or Brad. You seem like a great person. And me 
being the "idiot" that brought up the dining room table conversation again, 
I can only guess that you're swearing my name. I poked the hive with a 
stick, and many others joined in by poked sticks at the hive, over and over.

I'm sorry. While I've had several great laughs. I realize I likely owe you a 
nice 20 year old single malt bottle. Or maybe it's a case of bottles by now.

I promise not to mention the dining room table for a period of at least 
three years, maybe four. But I can't promise that I'll never poke a stick at 
the hive again. Especially if someone opens the door to an opportunity for 
humor.

Hope you don't totally hate me. I'll go in and hug our dining room table, 
and ask forgiveness. ;-)

Cheers,
Robert "the idiot"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cameron Tinder" <sealtee at cableone.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots


> Ummmm, Scot?
>
>
>
> That's not a dining room table under that rocket of yours, is it?
>
>
>
> Just wondering..
>
>
>
>
>
> Cameron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:56:34 -0800
>
> From: Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com>
>
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
> Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
>
> Message-ID:
>
>      <998b0521002051856t135d803fvbea392dca36ec706 at mail.gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>
>
> Posted two more pictures of the 75 mm miniimum diameter bird. Fins on and
> glassed, everything filled and primed. Almost ready to paint.
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject#
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:46:58 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:46:58 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Motion to change TRA research 75% rule
Message-ID: <545E0100C25B4CA682C733F24FF92C13@LaptopKrausert>

Hello,
Regarding the motion to move the waiver approval of the research altitude 75% rule from the TRA BoD to the Prefecture. The TRA BoD was not in favor of the motion. They felt that abuse could happen. Ben Russell TRA BoD will continue to seek other possible solutions. 

I tried. 

Cheers,
Robert

From fred at azinger.com  Sat Feb  6 16:14:48 2010
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:14:48 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Motion to change TRA research 75% rule
In-Reply-To: <545E0100C25B4CA682C733F24FF92C13@LaptopKrausert>
References: <545E0100C25B4CA682C733F24FF92C13@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <002101caa78a$900b8540$b0228fc0$@com>

What abuse?
What club will let their waiver be jeopardized?
How does the TRA BOD claim to have better knowledge of the proposed flight
than the local BOD?
Can you share the actual response?




-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:47 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org
Subject: [RocketsNW] Motion to change TRA research 75% rule

Hello,
Regarding the motion to move the waiver approval of the research altitude
75% rule from the TRA BoD to the Prefecture. The TRA BoD was not in favor of
the motion. They felt that abuse could happen. Ben Russell TRA BoD will
continue to seek other possible solutions. 

I tried. 

Cheers,
Robert
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sat Feb  6 18:05:46 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:05:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] The Dining Room Table
In-Reply-To: <4768E6E04BFC4E1F9927A0C565B3E070@LaptopKrausert>
References: <008401caa773$c9816ae0$5c8440a0$@net>
	<4768E6E04BFC4E1F9927A0C565B3E070@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <387d7c3ab8b187786bb675c2550edce2.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

To some people the Dining Room Table isn't just a place to eat.  It's a
major investment, a beautiful work of art, a point of pride to show off to
guests.  It's their own personal Mona Lisa.

I have a big round dining room table in this old farmhouse I live in.  I
never build rockets on it.  Heck, I religiously use placemats and coasters
on it.  Religiously.  You see, it isn't actually mine--it belongs to my
mother.  And even though it's old and shows the signs of many years of use
it's something of a family heirloom.  Because it's older than her, and
she's about to turn 90.  It's not that beautiful, not a glowing work of
art, not even worth very much.  But if I got a gob of epoxy on it I'd be
living in the chicken coop.  Tarred and feathered by my relatives.

I have the old mobile home to use as a workshop.  The heat is turned off. 
The water is turned off for the winter.  It's full of hungry shivering
spiders.  There isn't even really a working tv in it anymore.  But that's
where *I* build any rockets, not the dining room table.  Because hell hath
no scorn like PO'ed relatives.  :)
+McG+


> Angela "Red,"
> It's kind of like when you first discover a ground based Yellowjacket
> hive.
> You stare at it. For a long time, you simply stare at it. Then you throw a
> rock at it. But remain at a safe distance. Then after much monitoring, you
> decide to poke it with a stick and run back to a safe distance. Only to
> see
> a minor swarm to appear. Time goes by. You attack, poking with a stick
> over
> and over. Each time a little more bold. You will reach and pass beyond the
> threshold, and likely encounter a fast run down the street, run back
> towards
> home, and hide inside. At which time, you discovered that you found the
> way
> to properly stir-up the hornets nest.
>
> So why the story? Basically, some idiot brang up the Dining Room table
> discussion we all had years ago. And those on the listserv that remembered
> the conversation, recalled your opinion regarding the topic.
>
> While I've never met you. Or Brad. You seem like a great person. And me
> being the "idiot" that brought up the dining room table conversation
> again,
> I can only guess that you're swearing my name. I poked the hive with a
> stick, and many others joined in by poked sticks at the hive, over and
> over.
>
> I'm sorry. While I've had several great laughs. I realize I likely owe you
> a
> nice 20 year old single malt bottle. Or maybe it's a case of bottles by
> now.
>
> I promise not to mention the dining room table for a period of at least
> three years, maybe four. But I can't promise that I'll never poke a stick
> at
> the hive again. Especially if someone opens the door to an opportunity for
> humor.
>
> Hope you don't totally hate me. I'll go in and hug our dining room table,
> and ask forgiveness. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Robert "the idiot"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cameron Tinder" <sealtee at cableone.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 1:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
>
>
>> Ummmm, Scot?
>>
>>
>>
>> That's not a dining room table under that rocket of yours, is it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Just wondering..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:56:34 -0800
>>
>> From: Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com>
>>
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] A couple more shots
>>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>      <998b0521002051856t135d803fvbea392dca36ec706 at mail.gmail.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>>
>>
>> Posted two more pictures of the 75 mm miniimum diameter bird. Fins on
>> and
>> glassed, everything filled and primed. Almost ready to paint.
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject#
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From sb at berfield.com  Sat Feb  6 23:09:37 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:09:37 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket talk at TED
Message-ID: <998b0521002062309u45935f72kef3e752caa5eb123@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.ted.com/talks/steve_jurvetson_on_model_rocketry.html

From sb at berfield.com  Sat Feb  6 23:12:24 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:12:24 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] notebook left at meeting
Message-ID: <998b0521002062312u692f0420gbe23b70f44d1010c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

if anyone picked up a composition book after the meeting, I think I left it
there. Has my name on the front and a bunch of pencil sketches on projects
inside.

Scott

From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Sat Feb  6 23:37:35 2010
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:37:35 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002041538l2505699dl75e727fcd2af2cdb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>,
	<e83b26701002031357q7c70e443xe9b854687c5a93bf@mail.gmail.com>,
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840961@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>,
	<001901caa5e5$aeed1fb0$0cc75f10$@com>,
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840E87@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>,
	<e83b26701002041538l2505699dl75e727fcd2af2cdb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT125-W15D174369CE88C6A8932BFB5520@phx.gbl>


2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C 


> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> 
> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect, habbit,
> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I build my
> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the wife she
> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she is home.
> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in build
> mode.
> 
> Chris
> 
> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
> 
> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the SHOP!
> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
> >
> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
> >
> > RED
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >
> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just for
> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she has
> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table. So I
> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >
> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own heated
> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet) and
> > build
> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone knows, we
> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place smelling
> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
> >
> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
> >
> > Angela Dinese Wright
> > 425-443-5049
> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >
> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.  Then
> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get any
> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That is
> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and the
> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it, she
> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
> > paints(not the air).
> >
> > Chris Guenther
> > NAR L2
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few
> >  taps
> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
> > >
> > > Mike F.
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
> > >
> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> > > Weld?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/

From holdencurrency at comcast.net  Sun Feb  7 08:57:15 2010
From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:57:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket talk at TED
In-Reply-To: <998b0521002062309u45935f72kef3e752caa5eb123@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1061793564.662871265561835740.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



AWESOME VIDEO! Thanks scott for sharing.? 



Happy Launching, 

Chris Holden 

www.holdenshobbies.com 





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Berfield" <sb at berfield.com> 
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2010 11:09:37 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket talk at TED 

http://www.ted.com/talks/steve_jurvetson_on_model_rocketry.html 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
?? 

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Feb  7 11:35:52 2010
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:35:52 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do YOU do your through-the-bulkhead terminals?
In-Reply-To: <055d01caa233$f7b422d0$e71c6870$@blastzone.com>
References: <055d01caa233$f7b422d0$e71c6870$@blastzone.com>
Message-ID: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF245083D0@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Here's generally how I do it.

http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/Projects06-7/Level3-P4.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:12 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do YOU do your through-the-bulkhead terminals?

I'm in the process of repairing Hold the Mayo
(http://www.blastzone.com/images/m0606/htmonpad.jpg) , including re-working the avionics bay.  For the deployment charge terminals I have typically used brass bolts that run through a bulkhead and then wingnuts to attach the wires of the deployment charges.  As I'm getting ready to do this for the umpteenth time, I'm wondering how other folks approach it.  I've see some who use the little screw down terminals and just run wires through the bulkheads.  Any other techniques anyone would care to share?

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sun Feb  7 23:25:20 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <SNT125-W15D174369CE88C6A8932BFB5520@phx.gbl>
References: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>,
	<e83b26701002031357q7c70e443xe9b854687c5a93bf@mail.gmail.com>,
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840961@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>,
	<001901caa5e5$aeed1fb0$0cc75f10$@com>,
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840E87@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>,
	<e83b26701002041538l2505699dl75e727fcd2af2cdb@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT125-W15D174369CE88C6A8932BFB5520@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6a9a9f81da5f20b0921574632afafde2.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Habbits are for hobbits...

Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's computer
to Chris's!

I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary typing
finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)

(One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
"affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand the
meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that *is*
the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)

Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
+McG+


> 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect, habbit,
>> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I build
>> my
>> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the wife
>> she
>> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she is
>> home.
>> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in build
>> mode.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the SHOP!
>> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
>> >
>> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
>> >
>> > RED
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
>> for
>> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she
>> has
>> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table. So
>> I
>> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
>> heated
>> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet) and
>> > build
>> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone knows,
>> we
>> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>> smelling
>> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
>> >
>> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
>> >
>> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> > 425-443-5049
>> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>> Then
>> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
>> any
>> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That
>> is
>> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and
>> the
>> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it,
>> she
>> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
>> > paints(not the air).
>> >
>> > Chris Guenther
>> > NAR L2
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few
>> >  taps
>> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> > >
>> > > Mike F.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> > >
>> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
>> > > Weld?
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From padapolis at hotmail.com  Mon Feb  8 10:05:48 2010
From: padapolis at hotmail.com (Paul Bowers)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:05:48 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
Message-ID: <SNT131-w622278162EC19DFD64004EB2510@phx.gbl>


I'm wondering if someone could help point me to a web site that lists when the soccer moms are planning on taking over the 60 acres launch facilities.  As the weather improves I would hate to pack the family for the drive only to find out we can't fly.

 

Thanks,

-Paul Bowers
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

From appusher at q.com  Mon Feb  8 10:41:59 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:41:59 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
In-Reply-To: <SNT131-w622278162EC19DFD64004EB2510@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT131-w622278162EC19DFD64004EB2510@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL111-W7ACE9969A3E08074777D9DC510@phx.gbl>


You can go to http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 and get a live video feed from the field to check conditions.

I think you would need to call LWYSA to get a practice and game schedule.
http://www.lwysa.org there is a contact email gor information.

 

Bill










 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: padapolis at hotmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:05:48 -0800
> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if someone could help point me to a web site that lists when the soccer moms are planning on taking over the 60 acres launch facilities. As the weather improves I would hate to pack the family for the drive only to find out we can't fly.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Paul Bowers
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com  Mon Feb  8 10:50:32 2010
From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:50:32 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W7ACE9969A3E08074777D9DC510@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT131-w622278162EC19DFD64004EB2510@phx.gbl>
	<COL111-W7ACE9969A3E08074777D9DC510@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5CF5368FA7@XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com>

If you do call LWYSA, remember you're not asking for permission. If a person answers the phone they may feel they have authority do deny permission to something as dangerous as rockets!
(heaven forbid)

I believe all other "non-organized" users have permission to use the field whenever there isn't scheduled soccer activity.

steve

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:42 AM
To: padapolis at hotmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule


You can go to http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 and get a live video feed from the field to check conditions.

I think you would need to call LWYSA to get a practice and game schedule.
http://www.lwysa.org there is a contact email gor information.



Bill










 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me



> From: padapolis at hotmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:05:48 -0800
> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
>
>
> I'm wondering if someone could help point me to a web site that lists when the soccer moms are planning on taking over the 60 acres launch facilities. As the weather improves I would hate to pack the family for the drive only to find out we can't fly.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Paul Bowers
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From k2tsai at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:26:48 2010
From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:26:48 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
Message-ID: <7816cff1002081226n4d915f93p4fbf1d178df21814@mail.gmail.com>

 Speaking as a dad and coach of kids Rec Soccer, the rec leagues won't be
starting back up until the end of August for the normal rec players.  Select
and Premier have different schedules, but they wouldn't go through the
effort of pulling all the goals if the Select and Premier teams still needed
them.

There may be a couple summer tounaments there, but I don't recall any the
last couple years.  Of course, a big part of all the renovation (including
60 South) is to support tournaments in the future.

LWYSA is the primary user of the fields, so any time they are going to have
some big event, it is likely you'll see notice of it on their website.

All the spring leagues that they are currently promoting all show Marymoor
as the location.

Let us all know when you plan to come up and we can all choose to randomly
and non-organizedly show up at roughly the same time and make a day of it!

Cheers,
 - Ken


> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:50:32 -0800
> From: "Bloom, Steven E" <steven.e.bloom at boeing.com>
> To: "'Bill Munds'" <appusher at q.com>, "padapolis at hotmail.com"
>        <padapolis at hotmail.com>, "rockets at rocketsnw.com"
>        <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
> Message-ID:
>        <
> D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5CF5368FA7 at XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> If you do call LWYSA, remember you're not asking for permission. If a
> person answers the phone they may feel they have authority do deny
> permission to something as dangerous as rockets!
> (heaven forbid)
>
> I believe all other "non-organized" users have permission to use the field
> whenever there isn't scheduled soccer activity.
>
> steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Bill Munds
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:42 AM
> To: padapolis at hotmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
>
>
> You can go to http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 and get a live video feed
> from the field to check conditions.
>
> I think you would need to call LWYSA to get a practice and game schedule.
> http://www.lwysa.org there is a contact email gor information.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
>
>
>
> > From: padapolis at hotmail.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:05:48 -0800
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
> >
> >
> > I'm wondering if someone could help point me to a web site that lists
> when the soccer moms are planning on taking over the 60 acres launch
> facilities. As the weather improves I would hate to pack the family for the
> drive only to find out we can't fly.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -Paul Bowers
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> End of Rockets Digest, Vol 32, Issue 1
> **************************************
>

From rnech at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  8 13:53:32 2010
From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:53:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W7ACE9969A3E08074777D9DC510@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <710943.47930.qm@web111412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

The latest updates for field use is at the referees website.
http://referees.lwysa.org/
?
Robert

--- On Mon, 2/8/10, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:


From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
To: padapolis at hotmail.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 10:41 AM



You can go to http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 and get a live video feed from the field to check conditions.

I think you would need to call LWYSA to get a practice and game schedule.
http://www.lwysa.org there is a contact email gor information.



Bill










EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me



> From: padapolis at hotmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:05:48 -0800
> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Soccer Schedule
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if someone could help point me to a web site that lists when the soccer moms are planning on taking over the 60 acres launch facilities. As the weather improves I would hate to pack the family for the drive only to find out we can't fly.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Paul Bowers
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 18:56:22 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
References: <13063.313a202c.389b3f8d@aol.com>,
	<e83b26701002031357q7c70e443xe9b854687c5a93bf@mail.gmail.com>,
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840961@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>,
	<001901caa5e5$aeed1fb0$0cc75f10$@com>,
	<3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C53840E87@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>,
	<e83b26701002041538l2505699dl75e727fcd2af2cdb@mail.gmail.com><SNT125-W15D174369CE88C6A8932BFB5520@phx.gbl>
	<6a9a9f81da5f20b0921574632afafde2.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <98356D87AFF24E11A439A90C4D8F7026@LaptopKrausert>

So true.

The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty of an 
email.

Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.

Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child. Possible 
though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no spell 
checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the corner 
of the workbench in the garage.

Good laugh Ken.

Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter


Habbits are for hobbits...

Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's computer
to Chris's!

I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary typing
finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)

(One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
"affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand the
meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that *is*
the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)

Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
+McG+


> 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect, habbit,
>> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I build
>> my
>> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the wife
>> she
>> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she is
>> home.
>> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in build
>> mode.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the SHOP!
>> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
>> >
>> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
>> >
>> > RED
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
>> for
>> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she
>> has
>> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table. So
>> I
>> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
>> heated
>> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet) and
>> > build
>> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone knows,
>> we
>> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>> smelling
>> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
>> >
>> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
>> >
>> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> > 425-443-5049
>> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>> Then
>> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
>> any
>> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That
>> is
>> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and
>> the
>> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it,
>> she
>> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
>> > paints(not the air).
>> >
>> > Chris Guenther
>> > NAR L2
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few
>> >  taps
>> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> > >
>> > > Mike F.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> > >
>> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
>> > > Weld?
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From cpovercg at rocketmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:38:34 2010
From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:38:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
Message-ID: <442707.97831.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I posted a comment on the the northwest rocketry site asking the same thing but thought I would post one here too. 
John Hawkins posted a note about a one Patrick Waite and his reemergence into the hobby.? As one who is new to the hobby, I'd like to hear more about exactly what Patrick does/has done and what I can look forward to.?


      

From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Mon Feb  8 22:06:19 2010
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:06:19 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
Message-ID: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>







Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table"..... 

> From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
> 
> So true.
> 
> The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty of an 
> email.
> 
> Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
> 
> Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child. Possible 
> though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no spell 
> checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the corner 
> of the workbench in the garage.
> 
> Good laugh Ken.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> 
> 
> Habbits are for hobbits...
> 
> Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's computer
> to Chris's!
> 
> I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
> doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary typing
> finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
> 
> (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
> "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand the
> meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that *is*
> the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
> 
> Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
> +McG+
> 
> 
> > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
> >
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
> >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>
> >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect, habbit,
> >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I build
> >> my
> >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the wife
> >> she
> >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she is
> >> home.
> >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in build
> >> mode.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
> >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the SHOP!
> >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
> >> >
> >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
> >> >
> >> > RED
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
> >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >
> >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
> >> for
> >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she
> >> has
> >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table. So
> >> I
> >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
> >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >
> >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
> >> heated
> >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet) and
> >> > build
> >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone knows,
> >> we
> >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
> >> smelling
> >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
> >> >
> >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
> >> >
> >> > Angela Dinese Wright
> >> > 425-443-5049
> >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
> >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >
> >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
> >> Then
> >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
> >> any
> >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That
> >> is
> >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and
> >> the
> >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it,
> >> she
> >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
> >> > paints(not the air).
> >> >
> >> > Chris Guenther
> >> > NAR L2
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few
> >> >  taps
> >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike F.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
> >> > >
> >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> >> > > Weld?
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Rockets mailing list
> >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Rockets mailing list
> >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Rockets mailing list
> >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/

From johnhawkins at wavecable.com  Mon Feb  8 22:10:00 2010
From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com (John Hawkins)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:10:00 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <004f01caa94e$82eace50$88c06af0$@com>

I say we put an M motor on Reds dining room table

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Vince Simoneau
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:06 PM
To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter







Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table"..... 

> From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
> 
> So true.
> 
> The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty of
an 
> email.
> 
> Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
> 
> Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child. Possible 
> though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no spell

> checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the corner

> of the workbench in the garage.
> 
> Good laugh Ken.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> 
> 
> Habbits are for hobbits...
> 
> Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's computer
> to Chris's!
> 
> I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
> doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary typing
> finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
> 
> (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
> "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand the
> meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that *is*
> the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
> 
> Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
> +McG+
> 
> 
> > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
> >
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
> >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>
> >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
habbit,
> >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I build
> >> my
> >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
wife
> >> she
> >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she is
> >> home.
> >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
build
> >> mode.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
> >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the SHOP!
> >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
> >> >
> >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
> >> >
> >> > RED
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
> >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >
> >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
> >> for
> >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she
> >> has
> >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table.
So
> >> I
> >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
> >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >
> >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
> >> heated
> >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet)
and
> >> > build
> >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
knows,
> >> we
> >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
> >> smelling
> >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
> >> >
> >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
> >> >
> >> > Angela Dinese Wright
> >> > 425-443-5049
> >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
> >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >
> >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
> >> Then
> >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
> >> any
> >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That
> >> is
> >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and
> >> the
> >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it,
> >> she
> >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
> >> > paints(not the air).
> >> >
> >> > Chris Guenther
> >> > NAR L2
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A
few
> >> >  taps
> >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike F.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
> >> > >
> >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> >> > > Weld?
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Rockets mailing list
> >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Rockets mailing list
> >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Rockets mailing list
> >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 22:35:56 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:35:56 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>

If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first apartments
they have already been flown.  THE SPOOL.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table".....
>
> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
> >
> > So true.
> >
> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty of
> an
> > email.
> >
> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
> >
> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child. Possible
> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
> spell
> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
> corner
> > of the workbench in the garage.
> >
> > Good laugh Ken.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >
> >
> > Habbits are for hobbits...
> >
> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's computer
> > to Chris's!
> >
> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
> > doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary typing
> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
> >
> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
> > "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand the
> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that *is*
> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
> >
> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
> > +McG+
> >
> >
> > > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
> > >
> > >
> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> > >>
> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
> habbit,
> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I build
> > >> my
> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
> wife
> > >> she
> > >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she is
> > >> home.
> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
> build
> > >> mode.
> > >>
> > >> Chris
> > >>
> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the SHOP!
> > >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
> > >> >
> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
> > >> >
> > >> > RED
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> > >> >
> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
> > >> for
> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she
> > >> has
> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table.
> So
> > >> I
> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> > >> >
> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
> > >> heated
> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet)
> and
> > >> > build
> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
> knows,
> > >> we
> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
> > >> smelling
> > >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
> > >> >
> > >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
> > >> >
> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
> > >> > 425-443-5049
> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> > >> >
> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
> > >> Then
> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
> > >> any
> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>  That
> > >> is
> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table
> and
> > >> the
> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
> it,
> > >> she
> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
> > >> > paints(not the air).
> > >> >
> > >> > Chris Guenther
> > >> > NAR L2
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A
> few
> > >> >  taps
> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Mike F.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> > >> > > Weld?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Rockets mailing list
> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Rockets mailing list
> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Rockets mailing list
> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 22:47:34 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:47:34 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>

At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No. 

Red's table or someone elses table. No.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Christopher Guenther 
  To: Vince Simoneau 
  Cc: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter


  If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first apartments they have already been flown.  THE SPOOL.


  On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com> wrote:







    Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table".....

    > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
    > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
    > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com

    > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

    > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800

    >
    > So true.
    >
    > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty of an
    > email.
    >
    > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
    >
    > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child. Possible
    > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no spell
    > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the corner
    > of the workbench in the garage.
    >
    > Good laugh Ken.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Robert
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
    > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
    > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
    > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    >
    >
    > Habbits are for hobbits...
    >
    > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's computer
    > to Chris's!
    >
    > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
    > doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary typing
    > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
    >
    > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
    > "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand the
    > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that *is*
    > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
    >
    > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
    > +McG+
    >
    >
    > > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
    > >
    > >
    > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
    > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
    > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
    > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    > >>
    > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect, habbit,
    > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I build
    > >> my
    > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the wife
    > >> she
    > >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she is
    > >> home.
    > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in build
    > >> mode.
    > >>
    > >> Chris
    > >>
    > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
    > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the SHOP!
    > >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
    > >> >
    > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
    > >> >
    > >> > RED
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > -----Original Message-----
    > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
    > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
    > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; Mfreptiles at aol.com
    > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    > >> >
    > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
    > >> for
    > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife. she
    > >> has
    > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table. So
    > >> I
    > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
    > >> >
    > >> > -----Original Message-----
    > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
    > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
    > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
    > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
    > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
    > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    > >> >
    > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
    > >> heated
    > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet) and
    > >> > build
    > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone knows,
    > >> we
    > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
    > >> smelling
    > >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
    > >> >
    > >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
    > >> >
    > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
    > >> > 425-443-5049
    > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
    > >> >
    > >> > -----Original Message-----
    > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
    > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
    > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
    > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
    > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
    > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    > >> >
    > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
    > >> Then
    > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
    > >> any
    > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.  That
    > >> is
    > >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table and
    > >> the
    > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do it,
    > >> she
    > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
    > >> > paints(not the air).
    > >> >
    > >> > Chris Guenther
    > >> > NAR L2
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A few
    > >> >  taps
    > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Mike F.
    > >> > >
    > >> > >
    > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
    > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
    > >> > > Weld?
    > >> > >
    > >> > > _______________________________________________
    > >> > > Rockets mailing list
    > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >> > >
    > >> > >
    > >> > _______________________________________________
    > >> > Rockets mailing list
    > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > _______________________________________________
    > >> > Rockets mailing list
    > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> _______________________________________________
    > >> Rockets mailing list
    > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >>
    > >
    > > _________________________________________________________________
    > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
    > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
    > > _______________________________________________
    > > Rockets mailing list
    > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > Rockets mailing list
    > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    >


    _________________________________________________________________
    Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
    http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/

    _______________________________________________
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    Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  9 05:06:00 2010
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:06:00 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
In-Reply-To: <442707.97831.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <442707.97831.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY118-W1C76493109DF23B8C80BAA6500@phx.gbl>


Most excellent Centering Rings!!!!

 

Mark
 
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:38:34 -0800
> From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
> 
> I posted a comment on the the northwest rocketry site asking the same thing but thought I would post one here too. 
> John Hawkins posted a note about a one Patrick Waite and his reemergence into the hobby.  As one who is new to the hobby, I'd like to hear more about exactly what Patrick does/has done and what I can look forward to. 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com  Tue Feb  9 06:30:35 2010
From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:30:35 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
In-Reply-To: <BAY118-W1C76493109DF23B8C80BAA6500@phx.gbl>
References: <442707.97831.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<BAY118-W1C76493109DF23B8C80BAA6500@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5CF5368FB0@XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com>

 I'll second the motion. Patrick's products are high quality.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 5:06 AM
To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite


Most excellent Centering Rings!!!!



Mark

> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:38:34 -0800
> From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
>
> I posted a comment on the the northwest rocketry site asking the same thing but thought I would post one here too.
> John Hawkins posted a note about a one Patrick Waite and his reemergence into the hobby.  As one who is new to the hobby, I'd like to hear more about exactly what Patrick does/has done and what I can look forward to.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Tue Feb  9 09:05:45 2010
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:05:45 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
In-Reply-To: <D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5CF5368FB0@XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <442707.97831.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<BAY118-W1C76493109DF23B8C80BAA6500@phx.gbl>
	<D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5CF5368FB0@XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <4B7195E9.8010708@hawkfeather.com>

Third that. The following is from 1/6/06.

OK, this is ridiculous in a fantastic way. I needed 18 centering rings &
bulkplates for my L3 project, some very custom. I contacted Patrick
Waite with questions on 12/27. We emailed a couple times that day & the 
next to figure out how to get him all the info. I ended up making a 
customized list in Excel, containing the part name, function, inner & 
outer mating parts, and measured ID & OD for each, along with 
indications for non-standard parts. I converted that to a web page and 
sent him the link on 12/28:

http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/l3/rings.html

He called me 4! times long-distance from FL to clarify things on 12/30
and had them in the mail on 1/3! I received them today, and every ring &
plate is a perfect fit (or a tad tight (for sanding tolerances)), 
smooth, and even have my custom function written on each one! Oh, and 
the 18 pieces averaged a little over $3 per!

Un-friggin-believable!!!

Andrew.

PS: he also sent 2 cool bumper stickers.

Bloom, Steven E wrote:
>  I'll second the motion. Patrick's products are high quality.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 5:06 AM
> To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
> 
> Most excellent Centering Rings!!!!
> 
> Mark
> 
>> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:38:34 -0800
>> From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
>>
>> I posted a comment on the the northwest rocketry site asking the same thing but thought I would post one here too.
>> John Hawkins posted a note about a one Patrick Waite and his reemergence into the hobby.  As one who is new to the hobby, I'd like to hear more about exactly what Patrick does/has done and what I can look forward to.

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 09:57:40 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:57:40 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com>

What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool Spool
on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central trunk
as the support on an M2525?  The table looks just like a spool without the
bottom plate.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

>  At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
>
> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
> apartments they have already been flown.  THE SPOOL.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table".....
>>
>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>>  >
>> > So true.
>> >
>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
>> of an
>> > email.
>> >
>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >
>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child. Possible
>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
>> spell
>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>> corner
>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >
>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Robert
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> >
>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >
>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> computer
>> > to Chris's!
>> >
>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
>> > doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary typing
>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
>> >
>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
>> > "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand the
>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
>> *is*
>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>> >
>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> > +McG+
>> >
>> >
>> > > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >>
>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>> habbit,
>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>> build
>> > >> my
>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
>> wife
>> > >> she
>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she is
>> > >> home.
>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
>> build
>> > >> mode.
>> > >>
>> > >> Chris
>> > >>
>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the
>> SHOP!
>> > >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > RED
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
>> > >> for
>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
>> she
>> > >> has
>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table.
>> So
>> > >> I
>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
>> > >> heated
>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet)
>> and
>> > >> > build
>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
>> knows,
>> > >> we
>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>> > >> smelling
>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>> > >> Then
>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
>> > >> any
>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>>  That
>> > >> is
>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table
>> and
>> > >> the
>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
>> it,
>> > >> she
>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> > >> > NAR L2
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.  A
>> few
>> > >> >  taps
>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
>> > >> > > Weld?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>  _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>

From bigredbee at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:00:23 2010
From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:00:23 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf3fe8021002091000w10807d88v159588fb2af69544@mail.gmail.com>

ya -- I don't see a problem with that!

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Christopher Guenther
<guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool Spool
> on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central trunk
> as the support on an M2525? ?The table looks just like a spool without the
> bottom plate.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
> <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> ?At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
>>
>> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
>> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
>> apartments they have already been flown. ?THE SPOOL.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Still waiting for the ?"Flying Dinner Table".....
>>>
>>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>>> ?>
>>> > So true.
>>> >
>>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
>>> of an
>>> > email.
>>> >
>>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>>> >
>>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child. Possible
>>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
>>> spell
>>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>>> corner
>>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>>> >
>>> > Good laugh Ken.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Robert
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>>> >
>>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>>> computer
>>> > to Chris's!
>>> >
>>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
>>> > doubled letters. ?Amazing! ?I can type faster with my one primary typing
>>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle! ?:)
>>> >
>>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
>>> > "affect" and "effect." ?Also one of the few who truly understand the
>>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
>>> *is*
>>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>>> >
>>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>>> > +McG+
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > 2b's ? ?1d ??? ? ?...............lol ? ?C
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>>> habbit,
>>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>>> build
>>> > >> my
>>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
>>> wife
>>> > >> she
>>> > >> knows and has seen me do it. ?I just prefer not to do it when she is
>>> > >> home.
>>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
>>> build
>>> > >> mode.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Chris
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!! ?:)
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny! ?:) ? Well I build rockets too in the
>>> SHOP!
>>> > >> > ?Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!! ?:)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!! ?:)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > RED
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
>>> > >> for
>>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
>>> she
>>> > >> has
>>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table.
>>> So
>>> > >> I
>>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
>>> > >> heated
>>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet)
>>> and
>>> > >> > build
>>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
>>> knows,
>>> > >> we
>>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>>> > >> smelling
>>> > >> > like epoxy or paint. ?:)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Right guys??? ?No building in the house! :)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>>> > >> Then
>>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
>>> > >> any
>>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>>> ?That
>>> > >> is
>>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets. ?My wife knows I use the table
>>> and
>>> > >> the
>>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
>>> it,
>>> > >> she
>>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
>>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>>> > >> > NAR L2
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld. ?A
>>> few
>>> > >> > ?taps
>>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Mike F.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Should I ?worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about ?JB
>>> > >> > > Weld?
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Rockets mailing list
>>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> >
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>> ?_______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From fred at azinger.com  Tue Feb  9 10:07:29 2010
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:07:29 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <bf3fe8021002091000w10807d88v159588fb2af69544@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>	<e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>	<FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>	<e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf3fe8021002091000w10807d88v159588fb2af69544@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005001caa9b2$bea88b30$3bf9a190$@com>

Tumble recovery might be a little rough....


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Greg Clark
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:00 AM
To: Christopher Guenther
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

ya -- I don't see a problem with that!

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Christopher Guenther
<guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool
Spool
> on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central
trunk
> as the support on an M2525? ?The table looks just like a spool without the
> bottom plate.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
> <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> ?At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
>>
>> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
>> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
>> apartments they have already been flown. ?THE SPOOL.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
<vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Still waiting for the ?"Flying Dinner Table".....
>>>
>>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>>> ?>
>>> > So true.
>>> >
>>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
>>> of an
>>> > email.
>>> >
>>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>>> >
>>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
Possible
>>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
>>> spell
>>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>>> corner
>>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>>> >
>>> > Good laugh Ken.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Robert
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>>> >
>>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>>> computer
>>> > to Chris's!
>>> >
>>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
>>> > doubled letters. ?Amazing! ?I can type faster with my one primary
typing
>>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle! ?:)
>>> >
>>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
>>> > "affect" and "effect." ?Also one of the few who truly understand the
>>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
>>> *is*
>>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>>> >
>>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>>> > +McG+
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > 2b's ? ?1d ??? ? ?...............lol ? ?C
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>>> habbit,
>>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>>> build
>>> > >> my
>>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
>>> wife
>>> > >> she
>>> > >> knows and has seen me do it. ?I just prefer not to do it when she
is
>>> > >> home.
>>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
>>> build
>>> > >> mode.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Chris
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!! ?:)
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny! ?:) ? Well I build rockets too in the
>>> SHOP!
>>> > >> > ?Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!! ?:)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!! ?:)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > RED
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
just
>>> > >> for
>>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
>>> she
>>> > >> has
>>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
table.
>>> So
>>> > >> I
>>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our
own
>>> > >> heated
>>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
yet)
>>> and
>>> > >> > build
>>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
>>> knows,
>>> > >> we
>>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>>> > >> smelling
>>> > >> > like epoxy or paint. ?:)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Right guys??? ?No building in the house! :)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>>> > >> Then
>>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not
get
>>> > >> any
>>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>>> ?That
>>> > >> is
>>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets. ?My wife knows I use the table
>>> and
>>> > >> the
>>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
>>> it,
>>> > >> she
>>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies
and
>>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>>> > >> > NAR L2
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.
?A
>>> few
>>> > >> > ?taps
>>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Mike F.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
Time,
>>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Should I ?worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about ?JB
>>> > >> > > Weld?
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Rockets mailing list
>>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> >
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>> ?_______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From arrsales at cox.net  Tue Feb  9 10:10:25 2010
From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:10:25 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
In-Reply-To: <4B7195E9.8010708@hawkfeather.com>
References: <442707.97831.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<BAY118-W1C76493109DF23B8C80BAA6500@phx.gbl><D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5CF5368FB0@XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<4B7195E9.8010708@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <A78DAD790B254B6198E4D73884016FE8@apcp.local>


Does anyone have his contact information?

Thanx!

Randy


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 12:06 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite

Third that. The following is from 1/6/06.

OK, this is ridiculous in a fantastic way. I needed 18 centering rings &
bulkplates for my L3 project, some very custom. I contacted Patrick
Waite with questions on 12/27. We emailed a couple times that day & the 
next to figure out how to get him all the info. I ended up making a 
customized list in Excel, containing the part name, function, inner & 
outer mating parts, and measured ID & OD for each, along with 
indications for non-standard parts. I converted that to a web page and 
sent him the link on 12/28:

http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/l3/rings.html

He called me 4! times long-distance from FL to clarify things on 12/30
and had them in the mail on 1/3! I received them today, and every ring &
plate is a perfect fit (or a tad tight (for sanding tolerances)), 
smooth, and even have my custom function written on each one! Oh, and 
the 18 pieces averaged a little over $3 per!

Un-friggin-believable!!!

Andrew.

PS: he also sent 2 cool bumper stickers.

Bloom, Steven E wrote:
>  I'll second the motion. Patrick's products are high quality.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 5:06 AM
> To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
> 
> Most excellent Centering Rings!!!!
> 
> Mark
> 
>> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:38:34 -0800
>> From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
>>
>> I posted a comment on the the northwest rocketry site asking the same
thing but thought I would post one here too.
>> John Hawkins posted a note about a one Patrick Waite and his reemergence
into the hobby.  As one who is new to the hobby, I'd like to hear more about
exactly what Patrick does/has done and what I can look forward to.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:20:58 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:20:58 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <005001caa9b2$bea88b30$3bf9a190$@com>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf3fe8021002091000w10807d88v159588fb2af69544@mail.gmail.com>
	<005001caa9b2$bea88b30$3bf9a190$@com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002091020k1b145efid1db92475928d301@mail.gmail.com>

I am not thinking tumble recovery on it.  The central base/leg is generally
large enough for the addition of a full dual deployment recovery system.
Even at that the trunk can be sanded out even more for weight reduction/room
purposes.

Look its' a bird? No wait it's a plane?  No it moms kitchen table....Quick
rewind the video came and record something else......

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Fred Azinger <fred at azinger.com> wrote:

> Tumble recovery might be a little rough....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Greg Clark
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:00 AM
> To: Christopher Guenther
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> ya -- I don't see a problem with that!
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Christopher Guenther
> <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool
> Spool
> > on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central
> trunk
> > as the support on an M2525?  The table looks just like a spool without
> the
> > bottom plate.
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
> > <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >>  At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
> >>
> >> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Robert
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> >> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> >> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>
> >> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
> >> apartments they have already been flown.  THE SPOOL.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
> <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table".....
> >>>
> >>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> >>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
> >>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
> >>>  >
> >>> > So true.
> >>> >
> >>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the
> quailty
> >>> of an
> >>> > email.
> >>> >
> >>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
> >>> >
> >>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
> Possible
> >>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
> >>> spell
> >>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
> >>> corner
> >>> > of the workbench in the garage.
> >>> >
> >>> > Good laugh Ken.
> >>> >
> >>> > Cheers,
> >>> > Robert
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> >>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> >>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> >>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
> >>> >
> >>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
> >>> computer
> >>> > to Chris's!
> >>> >
> >>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps
> dropping
> >>> > doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary
> typing
> >>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
> >>> >
> >>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
> >>> > "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand the
> >>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
> >>> *is*
> >>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
> >>> >
> >>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
> >>> > +McG+
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
> >>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> >>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> >>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
> >>> habbit,
> >>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
> >>> build
> >>> > >> my
> >>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of
> the
> >>> wife
> >>> > >> she
> >>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she
> is
> >>> > >> home.
> >>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
> >>> build
> >>> > >> mode.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Chris
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
> >>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the
> >>> SHOP!
> >>> > >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!
>  :)
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > RED
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
> >>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
> >>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
> just
> >>> > >> for
> >>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
> >>> she
> >>> > >> has
> >>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
> table.
> >>> So
> >>> > >> I
> >>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
> >>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our
> own
> >>> > >> heated
> >>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
> yet)
> >>> and
> >>> > >> > build
> >>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
> >>> knows,
> >>> > >> we
> >>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
> >>> > >> smelling
> >>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
> >>> > >> > 425-443-5049
> >>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> >>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
> >>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it
> aside.
> >>> > >> Then
> >>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not
> get
> >>> > >> any
> >>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
> >>>  That
> >>> > >> is
> >>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the
> table
> >>> and
> >>> > >> the
> >>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I
> do
> >>> it,
> >>> > >> she
> >>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies
> and
> >>> > >> > paints(not the air).
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > Chris Guenther
> >>> > >> > NAR L2
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.
>  A
> >>> few
> >>> > >> >  taps
> >>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
> >>> > >> > >
> >>> > >> > > Mike F.
> >>> > >> > >
> >>> > >> > >
> >>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
> Time,
> >>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
> >>> > >> > >
> >>> > >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> >>> > >> > > Weld?
> >>> > >> > >
> >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> > >> > >
> >>> > >> > >
> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> >
> >>> > >> _______________________________________________
> >>> > >> Rockets mailing list
> >>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >
> >>> > > _________________________________________________________________
> >>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
> >>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
> >>>  _______________________________________________
> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From cpovercg at rocketmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:29:11 2010
From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:29:11 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
In-Reply-To: <A78DAD790B254B6198E4D73884016FE8@apcp.local>
References: <442707.97831.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<BAY118-W1C76493109DF23B8C80BAA6500@phx.gbl><D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5CF5368FB0@XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com><4B7195E9.8010708@hawkfeather.com><A78DAD790B254B6198E4D73884016FE8@apcp.local>
Message-ID: <1532130834-1265743692-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1656507695-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

John did provide an email address on his NWR site post. 

Sounds like he is a real craftsman. I always like to take my business to those who really care about their work.
R. Braibish
-----Original Message-----
From: "Always Ready Rocketry" <arrsales at cox.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:10:25 
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite


Does anyone have his contact information?

Thanx!

Randy


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 12:06 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite

Third that. The following is from 1/6/06.

OK, this is ridiculous in a fantastic way. I needed 18 centering rings &
bulkplates for my L3 project, some very custom. I contacted Patrick
Waite with questions on 12/27. We emailed a couple times that day & the 
next to figure out how to get him all the info. I ended up making a 
customized list in Excel, containing the part name, function, inner & 
outer mating parts, and measured ID & OD for each, along with 
indications for non-standard parts. I converted that to a web page and 
sent him the link on 12/28:

http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/l3/rings.html

He called me 4! times long-distance from FL to clarify things on 12/30
and had them in the mail on 1/3! I received them today, and every ring &
plate is a perfect fit (or a tad tight (for sanding tolerances)), 
smooth, and even have my custom function written on each one! Oh, and 
the 18 pieces averaged a little over $3 per!

Un-friggin-believable!!!

Andrew.

PS: he also sent 2 cool bumper stickers.

Bloom, Steven E wrote:
>  I'll second the motion. Patrick's products are high quality.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 5:06 AM
> To: cpovercg at rocketmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
> 
> Most excellent Centering Rings!!!!
> 
> Mark
> 
>> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:38:34 -0800
>> From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
>>
>> I posted a comment on the the northwest rocketry site asking the same
thing but thought I would post one here too.
>> John Hawkins posted a note about a one Patrick Waite and his reemergence
into the hobby.  As one who is new to the hobby, I'd like to hear more about
exactly what Patrick does/has done and what I can look forward to.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From winningstad at comcast.net  Tue Feb  9 12:42:07 2010
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:42:07 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>	<e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <01b001caa9c8$58e44a30$0aacde90$@net>


Ode to Spell Checker

Eye halve a spelling checker
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marks four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My checker tolled me sew.

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:48 PM
To: Christopher Guenther; Vince Simoneau
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No. 

Red's table or someone elses table. No.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Christopher Guenther 
  To: Vince Simoneau 
  Cc: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter


  If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
apartments they have already been flown.  THE SPOOL.


  On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
wrote:







    Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table".....

    > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
    > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
    > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com

    > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

    > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800

    >
    > So true.
    >
    > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
of an
    > email.
    >
    > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
    >
    > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
Possible
    > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
spell
    > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
corner
    > of the workbench in the garage.
    >
    > Good laugh Ken.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Robert
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
    > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
    > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
    > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    >
    >
    > Habbits are for hobbits...
    >
    > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
computer
    > to Chris's!
    >
    > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
    > doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary
typing
    > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
    >
    > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
    > "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand the
    > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
*is*
    > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
    >
    > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
    > +McG+
    >
    >
    > > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
    > >
    > >
    > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
    > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
    > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
    > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    > >>
    > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
habbit,
    > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
build
    > >> my
    > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
wife
    > >> she
    > >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when she
is
    > >> home.
    > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
build
    > >> mode.
    > >>
    > >> Chris
    > >>
    > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
    > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the
SHOP!
    > >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
    > >> >
    > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
    > >> >
    > >> > RED
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > -----Original Message-----
    > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
    > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
    > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
Mfreptiles at aol.com
    > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    > >> >
    > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
just
    > >> for
    > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
she
    > >> has
    > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
table. So
    > >> I
    > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
    > >> >
    > >> > -----Original Message-----
    > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
    > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
    > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
    > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
    > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
    > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    > >> >
    > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our
own
    > >> heated
    > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
yet) and
    > >> > build
    > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
knows,
    > >> we
    > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
    > >> smelling
    > >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
    > >> >
    > >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
    > >> >
    > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
    > >> > 425-443-5049
    > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
    > >> >
    > >> > -----Original Message-----
    > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
    > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
    > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
    > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
    > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
    > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
    > >> >
    > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
    > >> Then
    > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not
get
    > >> any
    > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
That
    > >> is
    > >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the table
and
    > >> the
    > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
it,
    > >> she
    > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies
and
    > >> > paints(not the air).
    > >> >
    > >> > Chris Guenther
    > >> > NAR L2
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.
A few
    > >> >  taps
    > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Mike F.
    > >> > >
    > >> > >
    > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
Time,
    > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
    > >> > > Weld?
    > >> > >
    > >> > > _______________________________________________
    > >> > > Rockets mailing list
    > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >> > >
    > >> > >
    > >> > _______________________________________________
    > >> > Rockets mailing list
    > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > _______________________________________________
    > >> > Rockets mailing list
    > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> _______________________________________________
    > >> Rockets mailing list
    > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >>
    > >
    > > _________________________________________________________________
    > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
    > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
    > > _______________________________________________
    > > Rockets mailing list
    > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > Rockets mailing list
    > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    >


    _________________________________________________________________
    Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
    http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/

    _______________________________________________
    Rockets mailing list
    Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From cpovercg at rocketmail.com  Tue Feb  9 15:03:33 2010
From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:03:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <940105.11956.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Aerodynamics aside, the one difference I can think of is the burn time of the motor is nearly three times as long.? The spool may have stable flight but with a J570 it only needs it for 1.9 seconds...Now I know that?a few?seconds is not long but as we all know in rocketry we are dealing with reactions and factors on a scale of hundredths of a second.? If the table went unstable with a M2525?at 2.1 seconds the motor still has a lot of its thrust...
Just playing the devils advocate here...
I'd love to see a table go up too but want to be sure we all come back to talk about it...

R. Braibish



________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 9:57:40 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool Spool
on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central trunk
as the support on an M2525?? The table looks just like a spool without the
bottom plate.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

>? At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
>
> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
> apartments they have already been flown.? THE SPOOL.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Still waiting for the? "Flying Dinner Table".....
>>
>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>>? >
>> > So true.
>> >
>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
>> of an
>> > email.
>> >
>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >
>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child. Possible
>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
>> spell
>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>> corner
>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >
>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Robert
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> >
>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >
>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> computer
>> > to Chris's!
>> >
>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
>> > doubled letters.? Amazing!? I can type faster with my one primary typing
>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!? :)
>> >
>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
>> > "affect" and "effect."? Also one of the few who truly understand the
>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
>> *is*
>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>> >
>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> > +McG+
>> >
>> >
>> > > 2b's? ? 1d ???? ? ...............lol? ? C
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >>
>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>> habbit,
>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>> build
>> > >> my
>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
>> wife
>> > >> she
>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.? I just prefer not to do it when she is
>> > >> home.
>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
>> build
>> > >> mode.
>> > >>
>> > >> Chris
>> > >>
>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!? :)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!? :)? Well I build rockets too in the
>> SHOP!
>> > >> >? Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > RED
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
>> > >> for
>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
>> she
>> > >> has
>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table.
>> So
>> > >> I
>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
>> > >> heated
>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet)
>> and
>> > >> > build
>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
>> knows,
>> > >> we
>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>> > >> smelling
>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Right guys???? No building in the house! :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>> > >> Then
>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
>> > >> any
>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>>? That
>> > >> is
>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.? My wife knows I use the table
>> and
>> > >> the
>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
>> it,
>> > >> she
>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> > >> > NAR L2
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.? A
>> few
>> > >> >? taps
>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Should I? worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about? JB
>> > >> > > Weld?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>? _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Tue Feb  9 15:13:18 2010
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:13:18 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <940105.11956.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>
	<FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com>
	<940105.11956.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E5796BA58@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

As stated originally, and now again. Nope, nada, no chance. Not at an OROC event. Shut down. Lights off. Exiting the building. Crowds leaving. 

Leave moms table where it is. 

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:04 PM
To: Christopher Guenther; Robert Krausert
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Aerodynamics aside, the one difference I can think of is the burn time of the motor is nearly three times as long.? The spool may have stable flight but with a J570 it only needs it for 1.9 seconds...Now I know that?a few?seconds is not long but as we all know in rocketry we are dealing with reactions and factors on a scale of hundredths of a second.? If the table went unstable with a M2525?at 2.1 seconds the motor still has a lot of its thrust...
Just playing the devils advocate here...
I'd love to see a table go up too but want to be sure we all come back to talk about it...

R. Braibish



________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 9:57:40 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool Spool
on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central trunk
as the support on an M2525?? The table looks just like a spool without the
bottom plate.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

>? At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
>
> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
> apartments they have already been flown.? THE SPOOL.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Still waiting for the? "Flying Dinner Table".....
>>
>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>>? >
>> > So true.
>> >
>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
>> of an
>> > email.
>> >
>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >
>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child. Possible
>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
>> spell
>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>> corner
>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >
>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Robert
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> >
>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >
>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> computer
>> > to Chris's!
>> >
>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
>> > doubled letters.? Amazing!? I can type faster with my one primary typing
>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!? :)
>> >
>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
>> > "affect" and "effect."? Also one of the few who truly understand the
>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
>> *is*
>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>> >
>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> > +McG+
>> >
>> >
>> > > 2b's? ? 1d ???? ? ...............lol? ? C
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >>
>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>> habbit,
>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>> build
>> > >> my
>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
>> wife
>> > >> she
>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.? I just prefer not to do it when she is
>> > >> home.
>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
>> build
>> > >> mode.
>> > >>
>> > >> Chris
>> > >>
>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!? :)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!? :)? Well I build rockets too in the
>> SHOP!
>> > >> >? Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > RED
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house just
>> > >> for
>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
>> she
>> > >> has
>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room table.
>> So
>> > >> I
>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our own
>> > >> heated
>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet)
>> and
>> > >> > build
>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
>> knows,
>> > >> we
>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>> > >> smelling
>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Right guys???? No building in the house! :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>> > >> Then
>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not get
>> > >> any
>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>>? That
>> > >> is
>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.? My wife knows I use the table
>> and
>> > >> the
>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
>> it,
>> > >> she
>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies and
>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> > >> > NAR L2
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.? A
>> few
>> > >> >? taps
>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Should I? worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about? JB
>> > >> > > Weld?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>? _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net  Tue Feb  9 15:29:34 2010
From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:29:34 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket talk at TED
In-Reply-To: <998b0521002062309u45935f72kef3e752caa5eb123@mail.gmail.com>
References: <998b0521002062309u45935f72kef3e752caa5eb123@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005f01caa9df$bd86f520$3894df60$@Dennis42@comcast.net>

You'll see two quick shots of my Bear Claw rocket.  Once in the group shot
and second with him straddling it on the pad (prior to being lifted into
place) Ala this scene
<http://www.rockgorilla.com/webimages/dr_strangelove.jpg>  in "Dr Stranglove
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strangelove> ".  Didn't know who he was at
the time J

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:10 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket talk at TED

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/steve_jurvetson_on_model_rocketry.html

_______________________________________________

Rockets mailing list

Rockets at rocketsnw.com

http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

  


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 15:33:13 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:33:13 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl><e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com><FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert><e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com><bf3fe8021002091000w10807d88v159588fb2af69544@mail.gmail.com><005001caa9b2$bea88b30$3bf9a190$@com>
	<e83b26701002091020k1b145efid1db92475928d301@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25681D853C36440DADA847A8A809D004@LaptopKrausert>

Dual recovery? Why? You're talking about a table with a drag ratio of about 
a million percent. OK. Joking there. By why would dual deploy be necessary? 
An M2525 if you stayed vertical would only get to about 200 - 300 feet. 
Meaning you'll eat the ground before either the drouge or main comes out. On 
a M2525, you'll burn a couple seconds vertical. Shift, twist, spin, and 
crash.

Again. No.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter


>I am not thinking tumble recovery on it.  The central base/leg is generally
> large enough for the addition of a full dual deployment recovery system.
> Even at that the trunk can be sanded out even more for weight 
> reduction/room
> purposes.
>
> Look its' a bird? No wait it's a plane?  No it moms kitchen table....Quick
> rewind the video came and record something else......
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Fred Azinger <fred at azinger.com> wrote:
>
>> Tumble recovery might be a little rough....
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Greg Clark
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:00 AM
>> To: Christopher Guenther
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> ya -- I don't see a problem with that!
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Christopher Guenther
>> <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool
>> Spool
>> > on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central
>> trunk
>> > as the support on an M2525?  The table looks just like a spool without
>> the
>> > bottom plate.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
>> > <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >>  At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. 
>> >> No.
>> >>
>> >> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Robert
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> >> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
>> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>
>> >> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
>> >> apartments they have already been flown.  THE SPOOL.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
>> <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table".....
>> >>>
>> >>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> >>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> >>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>> >>>  >
>> >>> > So true.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the
>> quailty
>> >>> of an
>> >>> > email.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
>> Possible
>> >>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, 
>> >>> > no
>> >>> spell
>> >>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>> >>> corner
>> >>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Cheers,
>> >>> > Robert
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> >>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> >>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> >>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> >>> computer
>> >>> > to Chris's!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps
>> dropping
>> >>> > doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary
>> typing
>> >>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference 
>> >>> > between
>> >>> > "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand 
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation 
>> >>> > that
>> >>> *is*
>> >>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> >>> > +McG+
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> >>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> >>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>> >>> habbit,
>> >>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>> >>> build
>> >>> > >> my
>> >>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of
>> the
>> >>> wife
>> >>> > >> she
>> >>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when 
>> >>> > >> she
>> is
>> >>> > >> home.
>> >>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am 
>> >>> > >> in
>> >>> build
>> >>> > >> mode.
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Chris
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> >>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the
>> >>> SHOP!
>> >>> > >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!
>>  :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > RED
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> >>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> >>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
>> just
>> >>> > >> for
>> >>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the 
>> >>> > >> > wife.
>> >>> she
>> >>> > >> has
>> >>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
>> table.
>> >>> So
>> >>> > >> I
>> >>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> >>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into 
>> >>> > >> > our
>> own
>> >>> > >> heated
>> >>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
>> yet)
>> >>> and
>> >>> > >> > build
>> >>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as 
>> >>> > >> > everyone
>> >>> knows,
>> >>> > >> we
>> >>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the 
>> >>> > >> > place
>> >>> > >> smelling
>> >>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> >>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> >>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> >>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> >>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it
>> aside.
>> >>> > >> Then
>> >>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do 
>> >>> > >> > not
>> get
>> >>> > >> any
>> >>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much 
>> >>> > >> > for.
>> >>>  That
>> >>> > >> is
>> >>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the
>> table
>> >>> and
>> >>> > >> the
>> >>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I
>> do
>> >>> it,
>> >>> > >> she
>> >>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the 
>> >>> > >> > epoxies
>> and
>> >>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> >>> > >> > NAR L2
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB 
>> >>> > >> > > Weld.
>>  A
>> >>> few
>> >>> > >> >  taps
>> >>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
>> Time,
>> >>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
>> >>> > >> > > Weld?
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> >>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>> >>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> >>> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>> >>>  _______________________________________________
>> >>> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com  Tue Feb  9 15:37:30 2010
From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:37:30 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E5796BA58@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <OFF532F498.9E63B848-ON882576C5.0081B554-882576C5.0081C6C1@jci.com>

But what if the table had a keg of beer on it???

 -- Peter



                                                                           
             "Krausert,                                                    
             Robert"                                                       
             <robert.krausert@                                          To 
             intel.com>                Robert Braibish                     
             Sent by:                  <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>,          
             rockets-bounces at r         Christopher Guenther                
             ocketsnw.com              <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>,    
                                       Robert Krausert                     
                                       <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>         
             02/09/2010 03:17                                           cc 
             PM                        "rockets at rocketsnw.com"             
                                       <rockets at rocketsnw.com>             
                                                                   Subject 
                                       Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum   
                                       Diameter                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           




As stated originally, and now again. Nope, nada, no chance. Not at an OROC
event. Shut down. Lights off. Exiting the building. Crowds leaving.

Leave moms table where it is.

Cheers,
Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:04 PM
To: Christopher Guenther; Robert Krausert
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Aerodynamics aside, the one difference I can think of is the burn time of
the motor is nearly three times as long.? The spool may have stable flight
but with a J570 it only needs it for 1.9 seconds...Now I know that?a
few?seconds is not long but as we all know in rocketry we are dealing with
reactions and factors on a scale of hundredths of a second.? If the table
went unstable with a M2525?at 2.1 seconds the motor still has a lot of its
thrust...
Just playing the devils advocate here...
I'd love to see a table go up too but want to be sure we all come back to
talk about it...

R. Braibish



________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 9:57:40 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool
Spool
on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central
trunk
as the support on an M2525?? The table looks just like a spool without the
bottom plate.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

>? At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
>
> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
> apartments they have already been flown.? THE SPOOL.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
<vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Still waiting for the? "Flying Dinner Table".....
>>
>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>>? >
>> > So true.
>> >
>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
>> of an
>> > email.
>> >
>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >
>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
Possible
>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
>> spell
>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>> corner
>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >
>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Robert
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> >
>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >
>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> computer
>> > to Chris's!
>> >
>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
>> > doubled letters.? Amazing!? I can type faster with my one primary
typing
>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!? :)
>> >
>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
>> > "affect" and "effect."? Also one of the few who truly understand the
>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
>> *is*
>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>> >
>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> > +McG+
>> >
>> >
>> > > 2b's? ? 1d ???? ? ...............lol? ? C
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >>
>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>> habbit,
>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>> build
>> > >> my
>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
>> wife
>> > >> she
>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.? I just prefer not to do it when she
is
>> > >> home.
>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
>> build
>> > >> mode.
>> > >>
>> > >> Chris
>> > >>
>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!? :)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!? :)? Well I build rockets too in the
>> SHOP!
>> > >> >? Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > RED
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
just
>> > >> for
>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
>> she
>> > >> has
>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
table.
>> So
>> > >> I
>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our
own
>> > >> heated
>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
yet)
>> and
>> > >> > build
>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
>> knows,
>> > >> we
>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>> > >> smelling
>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Right guys???? No building in the house! :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>> > >> Then
>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not
get
>> > >> any
>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>>? That
>> > >> is
>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.? My wife knows I use the table
>> and
>> > >> the
>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
>> it,
>> > >> she
>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies
and
>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> > >> > NAR L2
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.
A
>> few
>> > >> >? taps
>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
Time,
>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Should I? worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about? JB
>> > >> > > Weld?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>? _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
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Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



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http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

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http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 15:51:20 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:51:20 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
References: <OFF532F498.9E63B848-ON882576C5.0081B554-882576C5.0081C6C1@jci.com>
Message-ID: <78E3D445BDC54CF3A380B1F20A35D324@LaptopKrausert>

Then tap it, drink the beverage and not fly it. ;-)

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com>
To: "Krausert, Robert" <robert.krausert at intel.com>
Cc: "Robert Braibish" <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>; "Christopher Guenther" 
<guentherchristopher at gmail.com>; "Robert Krausert" 
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; 
<rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter


But what if the table had a keg of beer on it???

 -- Peter




             "Krausert,
             Robert"
             <robert.krausert@                                          To
             intel.com>                Robert Braibish
             Sent by:                  <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>,
             rockets-bounces at r         Christopher Guenther
             ocketsnw.com              <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>,
                                       Robert Krausert
                                       <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
             02/09/2010 03:17                                           cc
             PM                        "rockets at rocketsnw.com"
                                       <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
                                                                   Subject
                                       Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum
                                       Diameter










As stated originally, and now again. Nope, nada, no chance. Not at an OROC
event. Shut down. Lights off. Exiting the building. Crowds leaving.

Leave moms table where it is.

Cheers,
Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:04 PM
To: Christopher Guenther; Robert Krausert
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Aerodynamics aside, the one difference I can think of is the burn time of
the motor is nearly three times as long. The spool may have stable flight
but with a J570 it only needs it for 1.9 seconds...Now I know that a
few seconds is not long but as we all know in rocketry we are dealing with
reactions and factors on a scale of hundredths of a second. If the table
went unstable with a M2525 at 2.1 seconds the motor still has a lot of its
thrust...
Just playing the devils advocate here...
I'd love to see a table go up too but want to be sure we all come back to
talk about it...

R. Braibish



________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 9:57:40 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool
Spool
on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central
trunk
as the support on an M2525? The table looks just like a spool without the
bottom plate.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
>
> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
> apartments they have already been flown. THE SPOOL.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
<vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Still waiting for the "Flying Dinner Table".....
>>
>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>> >
>> > So true.
>> >
>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
>> of an
>> > email.
>> >
>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >
>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
Possible
>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
>> spell
>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>> corner
>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >
>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Robert
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> >
>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >
>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> computer
>> > to Chris's!
>> >
>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
>> > doubled letters. Amazing! I can type faster with my one primary
typing
>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle! :)
>> >
>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
>> > "affect" and "effect." Also one of the few who truly understand the
>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
>> *is*
>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>> >
>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> > +McG+
>> >
>> >
>> > > 2b's 1d ??? ...............lol C
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >>
>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>> habbit,
>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>> build
>> > >> my
>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
>> wife
>> > >> she
>> > >> knows and has seen me do it. I just prefer not to do it when she
is
>> > >> home.
>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
>> build
>> > >> mode.
>> > >>
>> > >> Chris
>> > >>
>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!! :)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny! :) Well I build rockets too in the
>> SHOP!
>> > >> > Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!! :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!! :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > RED
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
just
>> > >> for
>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
>> she
>> > >> has
>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
table.
>> So
>> > >> I
>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our
own
>> > >> heated
>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
yet)
>> and
>> > >> > build
>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
>> knows,
>> > >> we
>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>> > >> smelling
>> > >> > like epoxy or paint. :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Right guys??? No building in the house! :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>> > >> Then
>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not
get
>> > >> any
>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>> That
>> > >> is
>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets. My wife knows I use the table
>> and
>> > >> the
>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
>> it,
>> > >> she
>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies
and
>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> > >> > NAR L2
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.
A
>> few
>> > >> > taps
>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
Time,
>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Should I worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about JB
>> > >> > > Weld?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
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Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



_______________________________________________
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Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

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Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net  Tue Feb  9 16:03:43 2010
From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:03:43 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <940105.11956.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl>	<e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com>	<FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert>	<e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com>
	<940105.11956.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006701caa9e4$82cd2300$88676900$@Dennis42@comcast.net>

This recalls my modified "Wocket" by Polecat Aerospace:
http://stores.whatsuphobby.com/-strse-31/Polecat-Aerospace-Woket--dsh-/Detai
l.bok

I turned it into a "Wizards hat" by extending the cone and putting a nose
cone on it.  Which completely closed off the top.  Here is a link to some
pictures:
http://rocketman42.com/Hobbies/Rocket-Shots/11194935_DsAHr#784888901_QfkQi

It flew well on short duration high thrust motors, but scared the hell out
of everyone when I tried a longer burning motor.  Doing that caused it to
fly in an arc and began a downward trajectory under trust.  Luckily the
electronics (I added 'em) ejected the parachute and it landed safely.

Spool rockets or any with super high drag, essentially stop going up when
the motor shuts off.  And long burning motors increase the chance of the
"rocket" going unstable under thrust.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:04 PM
To: Christopher Guenther; Robert Krausert
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Aerodynamics aside, the one difference I can think of is the burn time of
the motor is nearly three times as long.? The spool may have stable flight
but with a J570 it only needs it for 1.9 seconds...Now I know that?a
few?seconds is not long but as we all know in rocketry we are dealing with
reactions and factors on a scale of hundredths of a second.? If the table
went unstable with a M2525?at 2.1 seconds the motor still has a lot of its
thrust...
Just playing the devils advocate here...
I'd love to see a table go up too but want to be sure we all come back to
talk about it...

R. Braibish



________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 9:57:40 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool Spool
on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central trunk
as the support on an M2525?? The table looks just like a spool without the
bottom plate.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

>? At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
>
> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
> apartments they have already been flown.? THE SPOOL.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
<vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Still waiting for the? "Flying Dinner Table".....
>>
>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>>? >
>> > So true.
>> >
>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
>> of an
>> > email.
>> >
>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >
>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
Possible
>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
>> spell
>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>> corner
>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >
>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Robert
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >
>> >
>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >
>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> computer
>> > to Chris's!
>> >
>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
>> > doubled letters.? Amazing!? I can type faster with my one primary
typing
>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!? :)
>> >
>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
>> > "affect" and "effect."? Also one of the few who truly understand the
>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
>> *is*
>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>> >
>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> > +McG+
>> >
>> >
>> > > 2b's? ? 1d ???? ? ...............lol? ? C
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >>
>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>> habbit,
>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>> build
>> > >> my
>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
>> wife
>> > >> she
>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.? I just prefer not to do it when she is
>> > >> home.
>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
>> build
>> > >> mode.
>> > >>
>> > >> Chris
>> > >>
>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!? :)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!? :)? Well I build rockets too in the
>> SHOP!
>> > >> >? Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > RED
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
just
>> > >> for
>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
>> she
>> > >> has
>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
table.
>> So
>> > >> I
>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our
own
>> > >> heated
>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal yet)
>> and
>> > >> > build
>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
>> knows,
>> > >> we
>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>> > >> smelling
>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.? :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Right guys???? No building in the house! :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> > >> >
>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>> > >> Then
>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not
get
>> > >> any
>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>>? That
>> > >> is
>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.? My wife knows I use the table
>> and
>> > >> the
>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
>> it,
>> > >> she
>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies
and
>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> > >> > NAR L2
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.? A
>> few
>> > >> >? taps
>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Should I? worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about? JB
>> > >> > > Weld?
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>? _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From rnech at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 16:27:16 2010
From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:27:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <25681D853C36440DADA847A8A809D004@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <920067.28514.qm@web111413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Maybe some one should build a scale model of Red's table and fly it!

robert

--- On Tue, 2/9/10, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>, "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 3:33 PM


Dual recovery? Why? You're talking about a table with a drag ratio of about a million percent. OK. Joking there. By why would dual deploy be necessary? An M2525 if you stayed vertical would only get to about 200 - 300 feet. Meaning you'll eat the ground before either the drouge or main comes out. On a M2525, you'll burn a couple seconds vertical. Shift, twist, spin, and crash.

Again. No.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter


> I am not thinking tumble recovery on it.? The central base/leg is generally
> large enough for the addition of a full dual deployment recovery system.
> Even at that the trunk can be sanded out even more for weight reduction/room
> purposes.
> 
> Look its' a bird? No wait it's a plane?? No it moms kitchen table....Quick
> rewind the video came and record something else......
> 
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Fred Azinger <fred at azinger.com> wrote:
> 
>> Tumble recovery might be a little rough....
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Greg Clark
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:00 AM
>> To: Christopher Guenther
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> 
>> ya -- I don't see a problem with that!
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Christopher Guenther
>> <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool
>> Spool
>> > on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central
>> trunk
>> > as the support on an M2525?? The table looks just like a spool without
>> the
>> > bottom plate.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
>> > <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >>? At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. >> No.
>> >>
>> >> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Robert
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> >> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
>> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>
>> >> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
>> >> apartments they have already been flown.? THE SPOOL.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
>> <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Still waiting for the? "Flying Dinner Table".....
>> >>>
>> >>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> >>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> >>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>> >>>? >
>> >>> > So true.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the
>> quailty
>> >>> of an
>> >>> > email.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
>> Possible
>> >>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, >>> > no
>> >>> spell
>> >>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>> >>> corner
>> >>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Cheers,
>> >>> > Robert
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> >>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> >>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> >>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> >>> computer
>> >>> > to Chris's!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps
>> dropping
>> >>> > doubled letters.? Amazing!? I can type faster with my one primary
>> typing
>> >>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!? :)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference >>> > between
>> >>> > "affect" and "effect."? Also one of the few who truly understand >>> > the
>> >>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation >>> > that
>> >>> *is*
>> >>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> >>> > +McG+
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > > 2b's? ? 1d ???? ? ...............lol? ? C
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> >>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> >>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>> >>> habbit,
>> >>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>> >>> build
>> >>> > >> my
>> >>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of
>> the
>> >>> wife
>> >>> > >> she
>> >>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.? I just prefer not to do it when >>> > >> she
>> is
>> >>> > >> home.
>> >>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am >>> > >> in
>> >>> build
>> >>> > >> mode.
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Chris
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!? :)
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> >>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!? :)???Well I build rockets too in the
>> >>> SHOP!
>> >>> > >> >? Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!
>>? :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!? :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > RED
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> >>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> >>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
>> just
>> >>> > >> for
>> >>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the >>> > >> > wife.
>> >>> she
>> >>> > >> has
>> >>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
>> table.
>> >>> So
>> >>> > >> I
>> >>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> >>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into >>> > >> > our
>> own
>> >>> > >> heated
>> >>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
>> yet)
>> >>> and
>> >>> > >> > build
>> >>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as >>> > >> > everyone
>> >>> knows,
>> >>> > >> we
>> >>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the >>> > >> > place
>> >>> > >> smelling
>> >>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.? :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Right guys???? No building in the house! :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> >>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> >>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> >>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> >>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it
>> aside.
>> >>> > >> Then
>> >>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do >>> > >> > not
>> get
>> >>> > >> any
>> >>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much >>> > >> > for.
>> >>>? That
>> >>> > >> is
>> >>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.? My wife knows I use the
>> table
>> >>> and
>> >>> > >> the
>> >>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I
>> do
>> >>> it,
>> >>> > >> she
>> >>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the >>> > >> > epoxies
>> and
>> >>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> >>> > >> > NAR L2
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB >>> > >> > > Weld.
>>? A
>> >>> few
>> >>> > >> >? taps
>> >>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
>> Time,
>> >>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > Should I? worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about? JB
>> >>> > >> > > Weld?
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> >>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>> >>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> >>> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>> >>>? _______________________________________________
>> >>> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



      

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 16:59:26 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:59:26 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <920067.28514.qm@web111413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <25681D853C36440DADA847A8A809D004@LaptopKrausert>
	<920067.28514.qm@web111413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002091659x4a2a9ecaq835ea05a0899653a@mail.gmail.com>

OK how about a scale model that flies on 29mm

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Robert Nech <rnech at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Maybe some one should build a scale model of Red's table and fly it!
>
> robert
>
> --- On Tue, 2/9/10, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>, "Fred Azinger"
> <fred at azinger.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 3:33 PM
>
>
> Dual recovery? Why? You're talking about a table with a drag ratio of about
> a million percent. OK. Joking there. By why would dual deploy be necessary?
> An M2525 if you stayed vertical would only get to about 200 - 300 feet.
> Meaning you'll eat the ground before either the drouge or main comes out. On
> a M2525, you'll burn a couple seconds vertical. Shift, twist, spin, and
> crash.
>
> Again. No.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Guenther" <
> guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> To: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
>
> > I am not thinking tumble recovery on it.  The central base/leg is
> generally
> > large enough for the addition of a full dual deployment recovery system.
> > Even at that the trunk can be sanded out even more for weight
> reduction/room
> > purposes.
> >
> > Look its' a bird? No wait it's a plane?  No it moms kitchen
> table....Quick
> > rewind the video came and record something else......
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Fred Azinger <fred at azinger.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Tumble recovery might be a little rough....
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:
> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Greg Clark
> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:00 AM
> >> To: Christopher Guenther
> >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >>
> >> ya -- I don't see a problem with that!
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Christopher Guenther
> >> <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool
> >> Spool
> >> > on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central
> >> trunk
> >> > as the support on an M2525?  The table looks just like a spool without
> >> the
> >> > bottom plate.
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
> >> > <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>  At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information.
> >> No.
> >> >>
> >> >> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> Robert
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> >> >> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> >> >> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
> >> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >>
> >> >> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
> >> >> apartments they have already been flown.  THE SPOOL.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
> >> <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table".....
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> >> >>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
> >> >>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
> >> >>>  >
> >> >>> > So true.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the
> >> quailty
> >> >>> of an
> >> >>> > email.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
> >> Possible
> >> >>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two,
> >>> > no
> >> >>> spell
> >> >>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in
> the
> >> >>> corner
> >> >>> > of the workbench in the garage.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Good laugh Ken.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Cheers,
> >> >>> > Robert
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> >> >>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
> >> >>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> >> >>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
> >> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
> >> >>> computer
> >> >>> > to Chris's!
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps
> >> dropping
> >> >>> > doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary
> >> typing
> >> >>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference >>>
> > between
> >> >>> > "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand
> >>> > the
> >> >>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation
> >>> > that
> >> >>> *is*
> >> >>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood
> incident.)
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
> >> >>> > +McG+
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
> >> >>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> >> >>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> >> >>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul,
> intelect,
> >> >>> habbit,
> >> >>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So
> I
> >> >>> build
> >> >>> > >> my
> >> >>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of
> >> the
> >> >>> wife
> >> >>> > >> she
> >> >>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when
> >>> > >> she
> >> is
> >> >>> > >> home.
> >> >>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am
> >>> > >> in
> >> >>> build
> >> >>> > >> mode.
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> Chris
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!
> :)
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
> >> >>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in
> the
> >> >>> SHOP!
> >> >>> > >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!
> >>  :)
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > RED
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
> >> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
> >> >>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
> >> >>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my
> house
> >> just
> >> >>> > >> for
> >> >>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the
> >>> > >> > wife.
> >> >>> she
> >> >>> > >> has
> >> >>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
> >> table.
> >> >>> So
> >> >>> > >> I
> >> >>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> >> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
> >> >>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into
> >>> > >> > our
> >> own
> >> >>> > >> heated
> >> >>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
> >> yet)
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> > >> > build
> >> >>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as >>> >
> >> > everyone
> >> >>> knows,
> >> >>> > >> we
> >> >>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the >>>
> > >> > place
> >> >>> > >> smelling
> >> >>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
> >> >>> > >> > 425-443-5049
> >> >>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> >> >>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
> >> >>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> >> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it
> >> aside.
> >> >>> > >> Then
> >> >>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do
> >>> > >> > not
> >> get
> >> >>> > >> any
> >> >>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much
> >>> > >> > for.
> >> >>>  That
> >> >>> > >> is
> >> >>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the
> >> table
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> > >> the
> >> >>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when
> I
> >> do
> >> >>> it,
> >> >>> > >> she
> >> >>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the >>> >
> >> > epoxies
> >> and
> >> >>> > >> > paints(not the air).
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > Chris Guenther
> >> >>> > >> > NAR L2
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB >>>
> > >> > > Weld.
> >>  A
> >> >>> few
> >> >>> > >> >  taps
> >> >>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
> >> >>> > >> > >
> >> >>> > >> > > Mike F.
> >> >>> > >> > >
> >> >>> > >> > >
> >> >>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
> >> Time,
> >> >>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
> >> >>> > >> > >
> >> >>> > >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
> >> >>> > >> > > Weld?
> >> >>> > >> > >
> >> >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
> >> >>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >>> > >> > >
> >> >>> > >> > >
> >> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
> >> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
> >> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > >> Rockets mailing list
> >> >>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >>> > >>
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> >> >>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM
> protection.
> >> >>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
> >> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > > Rockets mailing list
> >> >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> > >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > Rockets mailing list
> >> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >>> >
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >> >>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> >> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
> >> >>>  _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Rockets mailing list
> >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:07:10 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:07:10 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
References: <25681D853C36440DADA847A8A809D004@LaptopKrausert><920067.28514.qm@web111413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<e83b26701002091659x4a2a9ecaq835ea05a0899653a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F325FDB44CC489CB431605CCE5DAAE2@LaptopKrausert>

It's not the motor diameter. A 98mm doesn't scare me. Reseach. Do the math, 
comprehend drag, thrust curse, etc. Than show us the sim data.

Asking, just a scale model with a 29mm? I'd say no.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: "Robert Nech" <rnech at yahoo.com>
Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter


> OK how about a scale model that flies on 29mm
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Robert Nech <rnech at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Maybe some one should build a scale model of Red's table and fly it!
>>
>> robert
>>
>> --- On Tue, 2/9/10, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>, "Fred 
>> Azinger"
>> <fred at azinger.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Date: Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 3:33 PM
>>
>>
>> Dual recovery? Why? You're talking about a table with a drag ratio of 
>> about
>> a million percent. OK. Joking there. By why would dual deploy be 
>> necessary?
>> An M2525 if you stayed vertical would only get to about 200 - 300 feet.
>> Meaning you'll eat the ground before either the drouge or main comes out. 
>> On
>> a M2525, you'll burn a couple seconds vertical. Shift, twist, spin, and
>> crash.
>>
>> Again. No.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Guenther" <
>> guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> To: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
>> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>>
>> > I am not thinking tumble recovery on it.  The central base/leg is
>> generally
>> > large enough for the addition of a full dual deployment recovery 
>> > system.
>> > Even at that the trunk can be sanded out even more for weight
>> reduction/room
>> > purposes.
>> >
>> > Look its' a bird? No wait it's a plane?  No it moms kitchen
>> table....Quick
>> > rewind the video came and record something else......
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Fred Azinger <fred at azinger.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tumble recovery might be a little rough....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:
>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> >> On Behalf Of Greg Clark
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:00 AM
>> >> To: Christopher Guenther
>> >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>
>> >> ya -- I don't see a problem with that!
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Christopher Guenther
>> >> <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession 
>> >> > Cool
>> >> Spool
>> >> > on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one 
>> >> > central
>> >> trunk
>> >> > as the support on an M2525?  The table looks just like a spool 
>> >> > without
>> >> the
>> >> > bottom plate.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
>> >> > <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>  At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO 
>> >> >> information.
>> >> No.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cheers,
>> >> >> Robert
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >> >> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> >> >> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
>> >> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
>> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
>> >> >> apartments they have already been flown.  THE SPOOL.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
>> >> <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table".....
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> >> >>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> >> >>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >> >>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>> >> >>>  >
>> >> >>> > So true.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the
>> >> quailty
>> >> >>> of an
>> >> >>> > email.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
>> >> Possible
>> >> >>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, 
>> >> >>> > two,
>> >>> > no
>> >> >>> spell
>> >> >>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in
>> the
>> >> >>> corner
>> >> >>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Cheers,
>> >> >>> > Robert
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> >> >>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> >> >>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> >> >>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> >> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> >> >>> computer
>> >> >>> > to Chris's!
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps
>> >> dropping
>> >> >>> > doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one 
>> >> >>> > primary
>> >> typing
>> >> >>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference 
>> >> >>> >  >>>
>> > between
>> >> >>> > "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand
>> >>> > the
>> >> >>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation
>> >>> > that
>> >> >>> *is*
>> >> >>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood
>> incident.)
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> >> >>> > +McG+
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> >> >>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> >> >>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >> >>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul,
>> intelect,
>> >> >>> habbit,
>> >> >>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... 
>> >> >>> > >> So
>> I
>> >> >>> build
>> >> >>> > >> my
>> >> >>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear 
>> >> >>> > >> of
>> >> the
>> >> >>> wife
>> >> >>> > >> she
>> >> >>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when
>> >>> > >> she
>> >> is
>> >> >>> > >> home.
>> >> >>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I 
>> >> >>> > >> am
>> >>> > >> in
>> >> >>> build
>> >> >>> > >> mode.
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> Chris
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!
>> :)
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> >> >>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in
>> the
>> >> >>> SHOP!
>> >> >>> > >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, 
>> >> >>> > >> > FOOD!!
>> >>  :)
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > RED
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> >> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> >> >>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> >> >>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my
>> house
>> >> just
>> >> >>> > >> for
>> >> >>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the
>> >>> > >> > wife.
>> >> >>> she
>> >> >>> > >> has
>> >> >>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining 
>> >> >>> > >> > room
>> >> table.
>> >> >>> So
>> >> >>> > >> I
>> >> >>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> >> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> >> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> >> >>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into
>> >>> > >> > our
>> >> own
>> >> >>> > >> heated
>> >> >>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no 
>> >> >>> > >> > urinal
>> >> yet)
>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>> > >> > build
>> >> >>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as >>> 
>> >> >>> > >> >  >
>> >> > everyone
>> >> >>> knows,
>> >> >>> > >> we
>> >> >>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the 
>> >> >>> > >> >  >>>
>> > >> > place
>> >> >>> > >> smelling
>> >> >>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> >> >>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> >> >>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> >> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> >> >>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> >> >>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it
>> >> aside.
>> >> >>> > >> Then
>> >> >>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do
>> >>> > >> > not
>> >> get
>> >> >>> > >> any
>> >> >>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much
>> >>> > >> > for.
>> >> >>>  That
>> >> >>> > >> is
>> >> >>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the
>> >> table
>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>> > >> the
>> >> >>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house 
>> >> >>> > >> > when
>> I
>> >> do
>> >> >>> it,
>> >> >>> > >> she
>> >> >>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the >>> 
>> >> >>> > >> >  >
>> >> > epoxies
>> >> and
>> >> >>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> >> >>> > >> > NAR L2
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB 
>> >> >>> > >> > >  >>>
>> > >> > > Weld.
>> >>  A
>> >> >>> few
>> >> >>> > >> >  taps
>> >> >>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> >> >>> > >> > >
>> >> >>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> >> >>> > >> > >
>> >> >>> > >> > >
>> >> >>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific 
>> >> >>> > >> > > Standard
>> >> Time,
>> >> >>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> >> >>> > >> > >
>> >> >>> > >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about 
>> >> >>> > >> > > JB
>> >> >>> > >> > > Weld?
>> >> >>> > >> > >
>> >> >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> >> >>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >> >>> > >> > >
>> >> >>> > >> > >
>> >> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> >> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> >> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> >
>> >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> >> >>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >> >>> > >>
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >> >>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM
>> protection.
>> >> >>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> >> >>> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> >> >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> > Rockets mailing list
>> >> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >> >>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> >> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>> >> >>>  _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> Rockets mailing list
>> >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Rockets mailing list
>> >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Rockets mailing list
>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Rockets mailing list
>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From joebevier at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:35:19 2010
From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:35:19 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <78E3D445BDC54CF3A380B1F20A35D324@LaptopKrausert>
References: <OFF532F498.9E63B848-ON882576C5.0081B554-882576C5.0081C6C1@jci.com>
	<78E3D445BDC54CF3A380B1F20A35D324@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <45717541002091735q10363d22w65cd2b4b17b80600@mail.gmail.com>

-inspired so I will chime in. . .

1) Beer is my friend, it was not meant to be a cosmonaut.  It was meant to
be a consumed-draught.

2) If I put a $500 motor under a kitchen table and light it -what does it
prove?  Would my affect have a desirable effect? (gottcha Kevin!) Maybe I
should test one in the wind tunnel and publish a study on the aerodynamics
of irregular furniture bodies?

3) I do not have a dining room table.  There is a horizontal work surface in
the dining bay of my vehicle assembly building that is too precious to
launch.  Not because of the value of the thing, but because of the value of
the good times had with friends and family around it.

4) Now back to the original thread subject. I like to use various
combinations of things to keep the fins on and we'll see how well they
work this spring.  Through
the fin -epoxy rivets for mechanical interlocking.  Tube -slotted to give
more surface area for bonding, not a lot of area in a min-D but it helps.
Fillets -reinforced with kevlar.  Fin core light ply for high damping.  Fin
shape -tapered along fin span, tip chord inside root
chord, root chord 1.5 to 3X fin span.  Fillets -for interference drag
the formula is different but for strength a
radius of greater than or equal to 1/2 the fin thickness at the base.  Fin
can -tip to tip with linear carbon.  Then I ask at what point am I over
building and what should I take out?  There's never an easy answer to that.

All details, qualifying statements, justifications and tradeoffs have been
omitted for brevity.  If there are any mis-spellings, poor grammar or
punctuation errors please tell my third grade teacher so she can send me to
the principals office -again.

Strangely,
Joe

P.S. It helps a lot to put the fins on straight! ;-)



On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> Then tap it, drink the beverage and not fly it. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com>
> To: "Krausert, Robert" <robert.krausert at intel.com>
> Cc: "Robert Braibish" <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>; "Christopher Guenther" <
> guentherchristopher at gmail.com>; "Robert Krausert" <
> lawndart.robert at gmail.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; <
> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
>
> But what if the table had a keg of beer on it???
>
> -- Peter
>
>
>
>
>            "Krausert,
>            Robert"
>            <robert.krausert@                                          To
>            intel.com>                Robert Braibish
>            Sent by:                  <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>,
>            rockets-bounces at r         Christopher Guenther
>            ocketsnw.com              <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>,
>
>                                      Robert Krausert
>                                      <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
>            02/09/2010 03:17                                           cc
>            PM                        "rockets at rocketsnw.com"
>                                      <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>                                                                  Subject
>                                      Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum
>                                      Diameter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As stated originally, and now again. Nope, nada, no chance. Not at an OROC
> event. Shut down. Lights off. Exiting the building. Crowds leaving.
>
> Leave moms table where it is.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:04 PM
> To: Christopher Guenther; Robert Krausert
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> Aerodynamics aside, the one difference I can think of is the burn time of
> the motor is nearly three times as long. The spool may have stable flight
> but with a J570 it only needs it for 1.9 seconds...Now I know that a
> few seconds is not long but as we all know in rocketry we are dealing with
> reactions and factors on a scale of hundredths of a second. If the table
> went unstable with a M2525 at 2.1 seconds the motor still has a lot of its
> thrust...
> Just playing the devils advocate here...
> I'd love to see a table go up too but want to be sure we all come back to
> talk about it...
>
> R. Braibish
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> To: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 9:57:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>
> What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool
> Spool
> on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central
> trunk
> as the support on an M2525? The table looks just like a spool without the
> bottom plate.
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
> <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>  At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. No.
>>
>> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
>> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
>> apartments they have already been flown. THE SPOOL.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
>>
> <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Still waiting for the "Flying Dinner Table".....
>>>
>>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>>> >
>>> > So true.
>>> >
>>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the quailty
>>> of an
>>> > email.
>>> >
>>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>>> >
>>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
>>>
>> Possible
>
>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, no
>>> spell
>>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>>> corner
>>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>>> >
>>> > Good laugh Ken.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Robert
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>>> >
>>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>>> computer
>>> > to Chris's!
>>> >
>>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps dropping
>>> > doubled letters. Amazing! I can type faster with my one primary
>>>
>> typing
>
>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle! :)
>>> >
>>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference between
>>> > "affect" and "effect." Also one of the few who truly understand the
>>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation that
>>> *is*
>>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>>> >
>>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>>> > +McG+
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > 2b's 1d ??? ...............lol C
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>>> habbit,
>>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>>> build
>>> > >> my
>>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of the
>>> wife
>>> > >> she
>>> > >> knows and has seen me do it. I just prefer not to do it when she
>>>
>> is
>
>> > >> home.
>>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am in
>>> build
>>> > >> mode.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Chris
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!! :)
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny! :) Well I build rockets too in the
>>> SHOP!
>>> > >> > Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!! :)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!! :)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > RED
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
>>>
>> just
>
>> > >> for
>>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the wife.
>>> she
>>> > >> has
>>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
>>>
>> table.
>
>> So
>>> > >> I
>>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into our
>>>
>> own
>
>> > >> heated
>>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
>>>
>> yet)
>
>> and
>>> > >> > build
>>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as everyone
>>> knows,
>>> > >> we
>>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the place
>>> > >> smelling
>>> > >> > like epoxy or paint. :)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Right guys??? No building in the house! :)
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it aside.
>>> > >> Then
>>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do not
>>>
>> get
>
>> > >> any
>>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much for.
>>> That
>>> > >> is
>>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets. My wife knows I use the table
>>> and
>>> > >> the
>>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I do
>>> it,
>>> > >> she
>>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the epoxies
>>>
>> and
>
>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>>> > >> > NAR L2
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB Weld.
>>>
>> A
>
>> few
>>> > >> > taps
>>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Mike F.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
>>>
>> Time,
>
>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Should I worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about JB
>>> > >> > > Weld?
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Rockets mailing list
>>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> >
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com  Tue Feb  9 17:49:08 2010
From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:49:08 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
In-Reply-To: <A78DAD790B254B6198E4D73884016FE8@apcp.local>
References: <442707.97831.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<BAY118-W1C76493109DF23B8C80BAA6500@phx.gbl><D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5CF5368FB0@XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com>	<4B7195E9.8010708@hawkfeather.com>
	<A78DAD790B254B6198E4D73884016FE8@apcp.local>
Message-ID: <013801caa9f3$3cfea970$b6fbfc50$@com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Always Ready Rocketry
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 1:10 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] John Hawikns post on NWR about Patrick Waite
> 
> 
> Does anyone have his contact information?


"Now open 'rocketparts'. I make fins and rings made out of Baltic Birch Wood
for tube made by Loc/PML/Giant Leap/Red Arrow. There is no web page at this
time but you can email me at rocketparts at yahoo.com I have many sizes of
rings that I can make on my CNC Machine. 3.00 to 48'' dia rings with 3.00 to
36'' mm. Hope to here from you.:

Patrick Waite"

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5597

 


From winningstad at comcast.net  Tue Feb  9 17:57:20 2010
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:57:20 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
In-Reply-To: <25681D853C36440DADA847A8A809D004@LaptopKrausert>
References: <SNT125-W20A3E42D276F822AF4AF4EB5500@phx.gbl><e83b26701002082235q4941c0car1eab3e140edfd890@mail.gmail.com><FF188B8E55A447CDAB76C89F3396ED56@LaptopKrausert><e83b26701002090957v5e1f72c4l69197caaf793a73e@mail.gmail.com><bf3fe8021002091000w10807d88v159588fb2af69544@mail.gmail.com><005001caa9b2$bea88b30$3bf9a190$@com>	<e83b26701002091020k1b145efid1db92475928d301@mail.gmail.com>
	<25681D853C36440DADA847A8A809D004@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <024601caa9f4$62186240$264926c0$@net>

Why not deploy the chute itself with a charge to get it OUT?  Robert seems
to be the Evil Dr NO!

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:33 PM
To: Christopher Guenther; Fred Azinger
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter

Dual recovery? Why? You're talking about a table with a drag ratio of about 
a million percent. OK. Joking there. By why would dual deploy be necessary? 
An M2525 if you stayed vertical would only get to about 200 - 300 feet. 
Meaning you'll eat the ground before either the drouge or main comes out. On

a M2525, you'll burn a couple seconds vertical. Shift, twist, spin, and 
crash.

Again. No.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter


>I am not thinking tumble recovery on it.  The central base/leg is generally
> large enough for the addition of a full dual deployment recovery system.
> Even at that the trunk can be sanded out even more for weight 
> reduction/room
> purposes.
>
> Look its' a bird? No wait it's a plane?  No it moms kitchen table....Quick
> rewind the video came and record something else......
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Fred Azinger <fred at azinger.com> wrote:
>
>> Tumble recovery might be a little rough....
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Greg Clark
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:00 AM
>> To: Christopher Guenther
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>>
>> ya -- I don't see a problem with that!
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Christopher Guenther
>> <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > What would be the difference if someone launches a LOC Precession Cool
>> Spool
>> > on a J570W or one of those kitchen tables thats round with one central
>> trunk
>> > as the support on an M2525?  The table looks just like a spool without
>> the
>> > bottom plate.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robert Krausert
>> > <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >>  At any Brothers launch, rejected. I can give early FSO information. 
>> >> No.
>> >>
>> >> Red's table or someone elses table. No.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Robert
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >> *To:* Vince Simoneau <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> >> *Cc:* lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ;
>> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 10:35 PM
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>
>> >> If you look at some peoples first kitchen tables from their first
>> >> apartments they have already been flown.  THE SPOOL.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Vince Simoneau
>> <vincesimoneau at msn.com>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Still waiting for the  "Flying Dinner Table".....
>> >>>
>> >>> > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
>> >>> > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; vincesimoneau at msn.com
>> >>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:56:22 -0800
>> >>>  >
>> >>> > So true.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > The effects of a good spell checker has serious affects on the
>> quailty
>> >>> of an
>> >>> > email.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Please don't forget to feed those Hobbits from time to time.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Nope. I don't recall ever being dropped on my head, as a child.
>> Possible
>> >>> > though. Just the result of; one, not being an English major, two, 
>> >>> > no
>> >>> spell
>> >>> > checker on this version of Outlook, and third, poor lighting in the
>> >>> corner
>> >>> > of the workbench in the garage.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Good laugh Ken.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Cheers,
>> >>> > Robert
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> > From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
>> >>> > To: "Vince Simoneau" <vincesimoneau at msn.com>
>> >>> > Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> >>> > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:25 PM
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Habbits are for hobbits...
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Lately it looks like the spelling bug has migrated from Robert's
>> >>> computer
>> >>> > to Chris's!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I need to change my own keyboard settings--stupid thing keeps
>> dropping
>> >>> > doubled letters.  Amazing!  I can type faster with my one primary
>> typing
>> >>> > finger than a 3 Ghz processor can handle!  :)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > (One of the last surviving Americans who knows the difference 
>> >>> > between
>> >>> > "affect" and "effect."  Also one of the few who truly understand 
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > meaning of "run through the wringer"[for the younger generation 
>> >>> > that
>> >>> *is*
>> >>> > the correct spelling] from, uh, an unfortunate childhood incident.)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Not criticizing, guys, just having a bit of fun!
>> >>> > +McG+
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > > 2b's    1d ???    ...............lol    C
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:47 -0800
>> >>> > >> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> >>> > >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >>> > >> CC: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Rockets are food they feed things like the rush, soul, intelect,
>> >>> habbit,
>> >>> > >> adiction, family deficit, suppliers bank accounts....etc... So I
>> >>> build
>> >>> > >> my
>> >>> > >> rockets/food on my kitchen table as many do and have no fear of
>> the
>> >>> wife
>> >>> > >> she
>> >>> > >> knows and has seen me do it.  I just prefer not to do it when 
>> >>> > >> she
>> is
>> >>> > >> home.
>> >>> > >> That way I don't get hit with a million "can you's?" while I am 
>> >>> > >> in
>> >>> build
>> >>> > >> mode.
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Chris
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!  :)
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
>> >>> > >> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> > Oh john you're so funny!  :)   Well I build rockets too in the
>> >>> SHOP!
>> >>> > >> >  Remember dinner table is for food .. repeat after me, FOOD!!
>>  :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Just a good old time joke so nobody get all offended!!  :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > RED
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>> > >> > From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com]
>> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:02 PM
>> >>> > >> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther';
>> >>> Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > God made my dining room table and my coffee tables in my house
>> just
>> >>> > >> for
>> >>> > >> > building rockets, and I don't even have to hid it from the 
>> >>> > >> > wife.
>> >>> she
>> >>> > >> has
>> >>> > >> > even built rockets in the living room and on the dining room
>> table.
>> >>> So
>> >>> > >> I
>> >>> > >> > say..... Build on in the house it was meant to be!!
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>> >>> > >> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:09 AM
>> >>> > >> > To: Christopher Guenther; Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > That's why God made Rocket Shops, so we can go outside into 
>> >>> > >> > our
>> own
>> >>> > >> heated
>> >>> > >> > and air conditioned with Microwave, shop (sorr boys no urinal
>> yet)
>> >>> and
>> >>> > >> > build
>> >>> > >> > and slop whatever we want whenever we want and then as 
>> >>> > >> > everyone
>> >>> knows,
>> >>> > >> we
>> >>> > >> > can have dinner on the dining room table and not have the 
>> >>> > >> > place
>> >>> > >> smelling
>> >>> > >> > like epoxy or paint.  :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Right guys???  No building in the house! :)
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright
>> >>> > >> > 425-443-5049
>> >>> > >> > Angelawr at wrightholdings.com
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >>> > >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> >>> > >> > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
>> >>> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:57 PM
>> >>> > >> > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> >>> > >> > Cc: jman13 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fins on a Minimum Diameter
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Personally I take the table cloth off the table and set it
>> aside.
>> >>> > >> Then
>> >>> > >> > cover the table with Freezer Paper and tape it down so I do 
>> >>> > >> > not
>> get
>> >>> > >> any
>> >>> > >> > epoxy drips onto that beautiful wood finish I paid so much 
>> >>> > >> > for.
>> >>>  That
>> >>> > >> is
>> >>> > >> > where I have built all my rockets.  My wife knows I use the
>> table
>> >>> and
>> >>> > >> the
>> >>> > >> > oven but yes I always make sure she is out of the house when I
>> do
>> >>> it,
>> >>> > >> she
>> >>> > >> > used to complain about the smells I was making with the 
>> >>> > >> > epoxies
>> and
>> >>> > >> > paints(not the air).
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Chris Guenther
>> >>> > >> > NAR L2
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:07 PM, <Mfreptiles at aol.com> wrote:
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > > I know that clean/smooth PVC pipe does not adhere to JB 
>> >>> > >> > > Weld.
>>  A
>> >>> few
>> >>> > >> >  taps
>> >>> > >> > > with a hammer releases cleanly.
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > Mike F.
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > In a message dated 2/3/2010 12:22:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
>> Time,
>> >>> > >> > > jman13 at gmail.com writes:
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > Should I  worry about PVC adhering to epoxy? How about  JB
>> >>> > >> > > Weld?
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > >
>> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> >>> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
>> >>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
>> >>> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/
>> >>>  _______________________________________________
>> >>> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From rnech at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 20:20:54 2010
From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:20:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space
Message-ID: <476391.44344.qm@web111401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowPR.asp?RID=13118&wnnvz=1745,01291919794&CommonCount=0


      

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Tue Feb  9 22:29:29 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:29:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space
In-Reply-To: <476391.44344.qm@web111401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <476391.44344.qm@web111401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8eab6035fc9a0a3ff5d7e999cd1ccc83.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

As I recall, attitude control during early descent was a major problem.  A
small drogue works after a little while, but by then excessive spin can
build up.  A momentum-wheel device in a backpack may be necessary.

I expect the altitude record for free falls in pressure suits will
increase over time.  There are few unsolvable problems aside from the
"brick wall" effect where increasing speed meets increasing atmospheric
density.  That will ultimately determine the upper limit for vertical
falls.  Of course, that's also the region of overlap between free-fall
stunts and fire-suit stunts.  Heh.
+McG+


> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowPR.asp?RID=13118&wnnvz=1745,01291919794&CommonCount=0
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Tue Feb  9 23:25:08 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 23:25:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Great balls of fire
Message-ID: <603df28c074ce4d5a5fb25929f10e237.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Proof you don't need a case or nozzle to make a rocket:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/11/secret-rocket-b/

The concept of a "nozzleless, casingless" rocket motor goes way back.  In
the early 1990's I developed it into a design concept for a fireworks
"soft-lift comet" which proved to be much too much work for me to actually
make.  The idea was to eliminate the problem of comet fracture from mortar
lift charges while maintaining a litter-free fireworks effect.  But
basically it was a spin-stabilized cylinder of fuel/oxidizer with a
central hole.  Didn't have to be an efficient rocket.

The military had a much simpler concept.

And no, don't worry about nozzleless, casingless rockets at our launches. 
The design inherently violates a number of safety code motor and rocket
design requirements.  But I suspect the military concept could be adapted
for fireworks shell components, using colored flame APCP compositions
derived from hobby rocketry.  Less spent casing 'fallout', more effects
per shell, and maybe a bit safer to transport and handle.

Ideas and technology are often shared among many fields.
+McG+


From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Wed Feb 10 16:09:42 2010
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:09:42 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA's plans to return to the Moon are dead
In-Reply-To: <003101ca9f6c$e9825e80$bc871b80$@com>
References: <333687.61639.qm@web111412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003101ca9f6c$e9825e80$bc871b80$@com>
Message-ID: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF28793FA3@BL2PRD0103MB044.prod.exchangelabs.com>

The program as it stood for the return to the moon was not the best approach and was over budget and full of problems.  The effort needed a restart and this should be it.

b

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:22 AM
To: 'Robert Nech'; 'NW Rocketry'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] NASA's plans to return to the Moon are dead

As much as a space junkie as I am, and as badly as I want to see us go back to the moon, I do think we have better places to spend the money these days
-- and anything that helps jump start the private sector for regular lifts and gets NASA focusing on science I am for. 

But I sure would love to see a full ARES V launch. 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Nech
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:51 AM
To: NW Rocketry
Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA's plans to return to the Moon are dead

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/os-no-moon-for-nasa-20100126,0,277
0904.story


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 19:47:17 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:47:17 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space
References: <476391.44344.qm@web111401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8eab6035fc9a0a3ff5d7e999cd1ccc83.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <C4430D265DC74698B27DCA95EE00CB68@LaptopKrausert>

We can get to see something cool, finally answer the question, and have Greg 
make some money.

We all want to witness an ARES V launch. Load ARES with a couple hundred 
politicians each strapped with a BeeLine GPS unit. When the rockets gets to 
10000 feet, open the door. Begin tossing one out at a time. Continue all the 
way into orbit. We should be able to determine maximum skydiving limit. And 
track using the GPS units.

Parachutes optional.

[humor]

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
To: "Robert Nech" <rnech at yahoo.com>
Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space


> As I recall, attitude control during early descent was a major problem.  A
> small drogue works after a little while, but by then excessive spin can
> build up.  A momentum-wheel device in a backpack may be necessary.
>
> I expect the altitude record for free falls in pressure suits will
> increase over time.  There are few unsolvable problems aside from the
> "brick wall" effect where increasing speed meets increasing atmospheric
> density.  That will ultimately determine the upper limit for vertical
> falls.  Of course, that's also the region of overlap between free-fall
> stunts and fire-suit stunts.  Heh.
> +McG+
>
>
>> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowPR.asp?RID=13118&wnnvz=1745,01291919794&CommonCount=0
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 19:52:01 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:52:01 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space
In-Reply-To: <C4430D265DC74698B27DCA95EE00CB68@LaptopKrausert>
References: <476391.44344.qm@web111401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8eab6035fc9a0a3ff5d7e999cd1ccc83.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<C4430D265DC74698B27DCA95EE00CB68@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002101952k31e53351vd07ac17a763edfe7@mail.gmail.com>

I just hope they don't drop him over my house.  I can not begin to imagine
what the cost would bee to fix that crater.



On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> We can get to see something cool, finally answer the question, and have
> Greg make some money.
>
> We all want to witness an ARES V launch. Load ARES with a couple hundred
> politicians each strapped with a BeeLine GPS unit. When the rockets gets to
> 10000 feet, open the door. Begin tossing one out at a time. Continue all the
> way into orbit. We should be able to determine maximum skydiving limit. And
> track using the GPS units.
>
> Parachutes optional.
>
> [humor]
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> To: "Robert Nech" <rnech at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space
>
>
>
>  As I recall, attitude control during early descent was a major problem.  A
>> small drogue works after a little while, but by then excessive spin can
>> build up.  A momentum-wheel device in a backpack may be necessary.
>>
>> I expect the altitude record for free falls in pressure suits will
>> increase over time.  There are few unsolvable problems aside from the
>> "brick wall" effect where increasing speed meets increasing atmospheric
>> density.  That will ultimately determine the upper limit for vertical
>> falls.  Of course, that's also the region of overlap between free-fall
>> stunts and fire-suit stunts.  Heh.
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>>
>>> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowPR.asp?RID=13118&wnnvz=1745,01291919794&CommonCount=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Wed Feb 10 22:53:37 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:53:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space
In-Reply-To: <C4430D265DC74698B27DCA95EE00CB68@LaptopKrausert>
References: <476391.44344.qm@web111401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8eab6035fc9a0a3ff5d7e999cd1ccc83.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<C4430D265DC74698B27DCA95EE00CB68@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <26b4c5b879546571710601bb6878819d.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Oh, whew!  There for a while I thought you were suggesting the Beelines to
get the politicians back!  ;-)
+McG+


> We can get to see something cool, finally answer the question, and have
> Greg
> make some money.
>
> We all want to witness an ARES V launch. Load ARES with a couple hundred
> politicians each strapped with a BeeLine GPS unit. When the rockets gets
> to
> 10000 feet, open the door. Begin tossing one out at a time. Continue all
> the
> way into orbit. We should be able to determine maximum skydiving limit.
> And
> track using the GPS units.
>
> Parachutes optional.
>
> [humor]
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> To: "Robert Nech" <rnech at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space
>
>
>> As I recall, attitude control during early descent was a major problem.
>> A
>> small drogue works after a little while, but by then excessive spin can
>> build up.  A momentum-wheel device in a backpack may be necessary.
>>
>> I expect the altitude record for free falls in pressure suits will
>> increase over time.  There are few unsolvable problems aside from the
>> "brick wall" effect where increasing speed meets increasing atmospheric
>> density.  That will ultimately determine the upper limit for vertical
>> falls.  Of course, that's also the region of overlap between free-fall
>> stunts and fire-suit stunts.  Heh.
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>>> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowPR.asp?RID=13118&wnnvz=1745,01291919794&CommonCount=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>



From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Thu Feb 11 05:39:39 2010
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:39:39 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space
References: <476391.44344.qm@web111401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8eab6035fc9a0a3ff5d7e999cd1ccc83.squirrel@www.wa-net.com><C4430D265DC74698B27DCA95EE00CB68@LaptopKrausert>
	<26b4c5b879546571710601bb6878819d.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300472@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Nonononononononono!!!
 
Beelines to mark where they land so that appropriate toxic waste warning signs can be erected and the general public can be kept away for their own safety!  
 
Nothing more toxic than politician goo...  
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Sent: Wed 2/10/2010 10:53 PM
To: Robert Krausert
Cc: NW Rocketry
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space



Oh, whew!  There for a while I thought you were suggesting the Beelines to
get the politicians back!  ;-)
+McG+


> We can get to see something cool, finally answer the question, and have
> Greg
> make some money.
>
> We all want to witness an ARES V launch. Load ARES with a couple hundred
> politicians each strapped with a BeeLine GPS unit. When the rockets gets
> to
> 10000 feet, open the door. Begin tossing one out at a time. Continue all
> the
> way into orbit. We should be able to determine maximum skydiving limit.
> And
> track using the GPS units.
>
> Parachutes optional.
>
> [humor]
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> To: "Robert Nech" <rnech at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "NW Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] skydiving from space
>
>
>> As I recall, attitude control during early descent was a major problem.
>> A
>> small drogue works after a little while, but by then excessive spin can
>> build up.  A momentum-wheel device in a backpack may be necessary.
>>
>> I expect the altitude record for free falls in pressure suits will
>> increase over time.  There are few unsolvable problems aside from the
>> "brick wall" effect where increasing speed meets increasing atmospheric
>> density.  That will ultimately determine the upper limit for vertical
>> falls.  Of course, that's also the region of overlap between free-fall
>> stunts and fire-suit stunts.  Heh.
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>>> http://www.impomag.com/scripts/ShowPR.asp?RID=13118&wnnvz=1745,01291919794&CommonCount=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From k7rkt at bigredbee.com  Fri Feb 12 11:36:09 2010
From: k7rkt at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:36:09 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: Albuquerque NM APRS Rocket Launch?
In-Reply-To: <9B4E0F446C764C24B786A0BFF1705DD4@ewlab.usna.edu>
References: <9B4E0F446C764C24B786A0BFF1705DD4@ewlab.usna.edu>
Message-ID: <cb724d311002121136k430c9d24w9d05fb52b0867253@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, from the APRS mailing list.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu>
Date: Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:25 AM
Subject: [aprssig] Albuquerque NM APRS Rocket Launch?
To: TAPR APRS Mailing List <aprssig at tapr.org>
Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org


Do we have an APRS team in New Mexico?
Or an AMSAT group?

Interested in participating in a high-altitude APRS rocket
Launch?

I have a launch opportunity to above 60 miles.
With a two month fuze.
If we can form a team to build and integrate it.
Total mission duration would be on the order of 10 minute
flight?

But one heck of an opportunity.
If we can get the bodies together.
Funding is covered....

Bob, WB4APR


_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
aprssig at tapr.org
https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig

From greg at bigredbee.com  Fri Feb 12 13:33:16 2010
From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:33:16 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Albuquerque NM APRS Rocket Launch?
In-Reply-To: <cb724d311002121136k430c9d24w9d05fb52b0867253@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9B4E0F446C764C24B786A0BFF1705DD4@ewlab.usna.edu>
	<cb724d311002121136k430c9d24w9d05fb52b0867253@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb724d311002121333g76863e06mc9503ad68ee17088@mail.gmail.com>

Ummmm, never mind -- This really has nothing to do w/ rockets, and is really
all about the payload.

-- Greg

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Greg Clark <k7rkt at bigredbee.com> wrote:

> FYI, from the APRS mailing list.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu>
> Date: Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:25 AM
> Subject: [aprssig] Albuquerque NM APRS Rocket Launch?
> To: TAPR APRS Mailing List <aprssig at tapr.org>
> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
>
>
> Do we have an APRS team in New Mexico?
> Or an AMSAT group?
>
> Interested in participating in a high-altitude APRS rocket
> Launch?
>
> I have a launch opportunity to above 60 miles.
> With a two month fuze.
> If we can form a team to build and integrate it.
> Total mission duration would be on the order of 10 minute
> flight?
>
> But one heck of an opportunity.
> If we can get the bodies together.
> Funding is covered....
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> aprssig mailing list
> aprssig at tapr.org
> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig
>
>

From bradmcclure at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:31:40 2010
From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:31:40 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
Message-ID: <SNT104-W19A7D7317591BBBA4DA04FB94D0@phx.gbl>


Hello, I was wondering if there are any plans to launch some rockets this weekend.  I was out last Sunday and found out that a group with rockets had just left just prior to our arrival.  Would love to come out and meet some rocket enthusiasts and watch you launch your rockets.

 

Thanks

-brad
 		 	   		  

From brodwcjj at integrity.com  Fri Feb 12 20:02:50 2010
From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:02:50 -0600
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket to study Sun  destroys a sundog
Message-ID: <82fab771cc2ee448adde32742c489d38.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>

Launched yesterday the The Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) destroys a
sundog on it's way up.

http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2010/11feb10/anna-herbst1.mov?PHPSESSID=lk60ns9nicef0mcinjp94icqc2

or

http://tinyurl.com/yhwzcnz


Dustin


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 22:57:57 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:57:57 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket to study Sun destroys a sundog
In-Reply-To: <82fab771cc2ee448adde32742c489d38.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>
References: <82fab771cc2ee448adde32742c489d38.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002122257k20b09ce7l410507fd9548fe00@mail.gmail.com>

Very Cool

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 8:02 PM, <brodwcjj at integrity.com> wrote:

> Launched yesterday the The Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) destroys a
> sundog on it's way up.
>
>
> http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2010/11feb10/anna-herbst1.mov?PHPSESSID=lk60ns9nicef0mcinjp94icqc2
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yhwzcnz
>
>
> Dustin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From bjarchow at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 07:47:22 2010
From: bjarchow at gmail.com (Brian Jarchow)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:47:22 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket to study Sun destroys a sundog
In-Reply-To: <82fab771cc2ee448adde32742c489d38.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>
References: <82fab771cc2ee448adde32742c489d38.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>
Message-ID: <a5b4f5771002130747x5c80cd2eveb83438a94db2ee1@mail.gmail.com>

That is a really impressive video.

Does anybody here have a guess as to what the ripples we could see in the
sun dog were? It looked like there were multiple ripples moving through the
sun dog, and I would have guessed there would only be one ripple if it was
from a supersonic shock wave.

Brian


On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 8:02 PM, <brodwcjj at integrity.com> wrote:

> Launched yesterday the The Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) destroys a
> sundog on it's way up.
>
>
> http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2010/11feb10/anna-herbst1.mov?PHPSESSID=lk60ns9nicef0mcinjp94icqc2
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yhwzcnz
>
>
> Dustin
>

From k2tsai at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 16:46:47 2010
From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:46:47 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
Message-ID: <7816cff1002131646s63d45395w6caafd1da3bd6ef2@mail.gmail.com>

Weather doesn't look so good this weekend.  I'm planning on being out
next weekend, though.  Haven't decided on Saturday or Sunday.  Right
now, weather looks better for Saturday, but I'll be keeping an eye on
that through the week.

Cheers,
 - Ken

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:31:40 -0800
> From: Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
> Message-ID: <SNT104-W19A7D7317591BBBA4DA04FB94D0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hello, I was wondering if there are any plans to launch some rockets this weekend. ?I was out last Sunday and found out that a group with rockets had just left just prior to our arrival. ?Would love to come out and meet some rocket enthusiasts and watch you launch your rockets.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> -brad
>
>

From jpr602 at mac.com  Sat Feb 13 23:13:10 2010
From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:13:10 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Construction of the International Space Station
References: <1959600526.3314011266082520606.JavaMail.root@sz0128a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6DC56680-034A-4789-9A11-42FF1616219C@mac.com>



Look at what happened from 1998 until 2008. In just ten years  it has  
grown and grown.

Watch the pieces come together as they are sent up from Earth.  This  
is the International Space Station (ISS) Assembly diagram, piece by  
piece.

Could they have grown it to this size and capability if it were spin  
stabliized??



  http://i.usatoday.net/tech/graphics/iss_timeline/flash.htm







From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Sun Feb 14 00:32:18 2010
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:32:18 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket to study Sun  destroys a sundog
In-Reply-To: <82fab771cc2ee448adde32742c489d38.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>
References: <82fab771cc2ee448adde32742c489d38.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>
Message-ID: <SNT125-W5626002A929559C2450153B54B0@phx.gbl>


Whoo,   hey,    WOW !!!!!     Verrry cool...
I like the wave front to the right as it pushes through.... 
     I could watch that for . . . .   .    .     .      .  

> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:02:50 -0600
> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket to study Sun  destroys a sundog
> 
> Launched yesterday the The Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) destroys a
> sundog on it's way up.
> 
> http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2010/11feb10/anna-herbst1.mov?PHPSESSID=lk60ns9nicef0mcinjp94icqc2
> 
> or
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/yhwzcnz
> 
> 
> Dustin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 12:55:26 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:55:26 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Construction of the International Space Station
References: <1959600526.3314011266082520606.JavaMail.root@sz0128a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<6DC56680-034A-4789-9A11-42FF1616219C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CFFC0D394322437C9A1F0EEEE2945746@LaptopKrausert>

JP,
Very nice. Thank you for sharing. All honesty, I didn't realize how big ISS 
current size is. Still rather small for those spending 6, 12, or 18 months 
up there. Not like you can step outsite for some fresh air from time to 
time. I see visiting ISS a lot like a Vegas trip. While spectacular, three 
days is plenty. After 18 months there, I'd likely have a basketball with a 
face painted on it, have provided the ball a name, and talking to it 
regularly. [Wilson!!!]

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Roberts" <jpr602 at mac.com>
To: "rockets northwest" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:13 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Construction of the International Space Station


>
>
> Look at what happened from 1998 until 2008. In just ten years  it has 
> grown and grown.
>
> Watch the pieces come together as they are sent up from Earth.  This  is 
> the International Space Station (ISS) Assembly diagram, piece by  piece.
>
> Could they have grown it to this size and capability if it were spin 
> stabliized??
>
>
>
>  http://i.usatoday.net/tech/graphics/iss_timeline/flash.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From padapolis at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 14 13:27:56 2010
From: padapolis at hotmail.com (Paul Bowers)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:27:56 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast
Message-ID: <SNT131-w52F13161C6D9BB7EE9E930B24B0@phx.gbl>


Anyone know if there is a podcast devoted to the hobby of rocketry?

The videos from Apogee Components are close but it would be nice to have information from other manufacturers, as well as launch videos from around the country.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 14:16:40 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:16:40 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast
References: <SNT131-w52F13161C6D9BB7EE9E930B24B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <950558E100FC4D1CB3E8D4AEDD13F228@LaptopKrausert>

Regarding the NWR site, we are striving to have videos posted off site and 
linked. That's to help keep the size down, so we don't need to delete 
images/videos over time. Having Podcast friendly videos on NWR is an option. 
Cloud sites like YouTube I believe supports the format. While the current 
NWR site isn't mobile internet device friendly. Offering a Podcast version 
of videos I think could be doable.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Bowers" <padapolis at hotmail.com>
To: "NW Rocketry Email Forum" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:27 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast


>
> Anyone know if there is a podcast devoted to the hobby of rocketry?
>
> The videos from Apogee Components are close but it would be nice to have 
> information from other manufacturers, as well as launch videos from around 
> the country.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 15:41:04 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:41:04 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast
In-Reply-To: <950558E100FC4D1CB3E8D4AEDD13F228@LaptopKrausert>
References: <SNT131-w52F13161C6D9BB7EE9E930B24B0@phx.gbl>
	<950558E100FC4D1CB3E8D4AEDD13F228@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002141541y72f81674yd14895258f17fe54@mail.gmail.com>

You can find anything from how to make rocket motors to making L3 rockets on
YouTube.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> Regarding the NWR site, we are striving to have videos posted off site and
> linked. That's to help keep the size down, so we don't need to delete
> images/videos over time. Having Podcast friendly videos on NWR is an option.
> Cloud sites like YouTube I believe supports the format. While the current
> NWR site isn't mobile internet device friendly. Offering a Podcast version
> of videos I think could be doable.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bowers" <padapolis at hotmail.com>
> To: "NW Rocketry Email Forum" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:27 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast
>
>
>
>
>> Anyone know if there is a podcast devoted to the hobby of rocketry?
>>
>> The videos from Apogee Components are close but it would be nice to have
>> information from other manufacturers, as well as launch videos from around
>> the country.
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 16:36:23 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:36:23 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast
References: <SNT131-w52F13161C6D9BB7EE9E930B24B0@phx.gbl>
	<950558E100FC4D1CB3E8D4AEDD13F228@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26701002141541y72f81674yd14895258f17fe54@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31C264D2D2A14F68977AE6A71021AE19@LaptopKrausert>

And that helps the Podcast question how? I can't find a connention. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Christopher Guenther 
  To: Robert Krausert 
  Cc: Paul Bowers ; NW Rocketry Email Forum 
  Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast


  You can find anything from how to make rocket motors to making L3 rockets on YouTube.


  On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:

    Regarding the NWR site, we are striving to have videos posted off site and linked. That's to help keep the size down, so we don't need to delete images/videos over time. Having Podcast friendly videos on NWR is an option. Cloud sites like YouTube I believe supports the format. While the current NWR site isn't mobile internet device friendly. Offering a Podcast version of videos I think could be doable.

    Cheers,
    Robert
    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bowers" <padapolis at hotmail.com>
    To: "NW Rocketry Email Forum" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
    Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:27 PM
    Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast





      Anyone know if there is a podcast devoted to the hobby of rocketry?

      The videos from Apogee Components are close but it would be nice to have information from other manufacturers, as well as launch videos from around the country.

      _________________________________________________________________
      Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
      http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
      _______________________________________________
      Rockets mailing list
      Rockets at rocketsnw.com
      http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



    _______________________________________________
    Rockets mailing list
    Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
     



From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 20:32:50 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:32:50 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast
In-Reply-To: <31C264D2D2A14F68977AE6A71021AE19@LaptopKrausert>
References: <SNT131-w52F13161C6D9BB7EE9E930B24B0@phx.gbl>
	<950558E100FC4D1CB3E8D4AEDD13F228@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26701002141541y72f81674yd14895258f17fe54@mail.gmail.com>
	<31C264D2D2A14F68977AE6A71021AE19@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002142032nfb71fe7xefd14e459d69f073@mail.gmail.com>

There is an app that you can download that will allow you to save and shoot
the YouTube vids into your Ip Od for later viewing.... I thought most people
that have one already knew about that... My mistake.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

>  And that helps the Podcast question how? I can't find a connention.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> *To:* Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Paul Bowers <padapolis at hotmail.com> ; NW Rocketry Email Forum<rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:41 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast
>
> You can find anything from how to make rocket motors to making L3 rockets
> on YouTube.
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Robert Krausert <
> lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Regarding the NWR site, we are striving to have videos posted off site and
>> linked. That's to help keep the size down, so we don't need to delete
>> images/videos over time. Having Podcast friendly videos on NWR is an option.
>> Cloud sites like YouTube I believe supports the format. While the current
>> NWR site isn't mobile internet device friendly. Offering a Podcast version
>> of videos I think could be doable.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bowers" <padapolis at hotmail.com>
>> To: "NW Rocketry Email Forum" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:27 PM
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anyone know if there is a podcast devoted to the hobby of rocketry?
>>>
>>> The videos from Apogee Components are close but it would be nice to have
>>> information from other manufacturers, as well as launch videos from around
>>> the country.
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 20:44:32 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:44:32 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast
References: <SNT131-w52F13161C6D9BB7EE9E930B24B0@phx.gbl>
	<950558E100FC4D1CB3E8D4AEDD13F228@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26701002141541y72f81674yd14895258f17fe54@mail.gmail.com>
	<31C264D2D2A14F68977AE6A71021AE19@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26701002142032nfb71fe7xefd14e459d69f073@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0E3591C7060741B590AEE0FABE330C56@LaptopKrausert>

Chris,
Thank you. 

I honestly didn't know of that ability. Personally though general YouTube was cloud, and their format only. 

As Bill Nie puts it, "I now know!!!"

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Christopher Guenther 
  To: Robert Krausert 
  Cc: Paul Bowers ; NW Rocketry Email Forum 
  Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast


  There is an app that you can download that will allow you to save and shoot the YouTube vids into your Ip Od for later viewing.... I thought most people that have one already knew about that... My mistake.


  On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:

    And that helps the Podcast question how? I can't find a connention. 
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Christopher Guenther 
      To: Robert Krausert 
      Cc: Paul Bowers ; NW Rocketry Email Forum 
      Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:41 PM
      Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast


      You can find anything from how to make rocket motors to making L3 rockets on YouTube.


      On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:

        Regarding the NWR site, we are striving to have videos posted off site and linked. That's to help keep the size down, so we don't need to delete images/videos over time. Having Podcast friendly videos on NWR is an option. Cloud sites like YouTube I believe supports the format. While the current NWR site isn't mobile internet device friendly. Offering a Podcast version of videos I think could be doable.

        Cheers,
        Robert
        ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bowers" <padapolis at hotmail.com>
        To: "NW Rocketry Email Forum" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
        Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:27 PM
        Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry Podcast 





          Anyone know if there is a podcast devoted to the hobby of rocketry?

          The videos from Apogee Components are close but it would be nice to have information from other manufacturers, as well as launch videos from around the country.

          _________________________________________________________________
          Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
          http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
          _______________________________________________
          Rockets mailing list
          Rockets at rocketsnw.com
          http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



        _______________________________________________
        Rockets mailing list
        Rockets at rocketsnw.com
        http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
         





From bradmcclure at hotmail.com  Mon Feb 15 10:05:47 2010
From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:05:47 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
In-Reply-To: <7816cff1002131646s63d45395w6caafd1da3bd6ef2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7816cff1002131646s63d45395w6caafd1da3bd6ef2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W283486E556E0BFE9B074AEB94A0@phx.gbl>


The weather looks very promising for the weekend of the 20th.  

 

I just finished assembly of an Aerotech Initiator and was wondering if it's possible to get FAA clearance to launch at 60 acres?  If yes, which ATC is the appropriate one to call?


-brad

 
> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:46:47 -0800
> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
> 
> Weather doesn't look so good this weekend. I'm planning on being out
> next weekend, though. Haven't decided on Saturday or Sunday. Right
> now, weather looks better for Saturday, but I'll be keeping an eye on
> that through the week.
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ken
> 
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:31:40 -0800
> > From: Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
> > Message-ID: <SNT104-W19A7D7317591BBBA4DA04FB94D0 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >
> > Hello, I was wondering if there are any plans to launch some rockets this weekend.  I was out last Sunday and found out that a group with rockets had just left just prior to our arrival.  Would love to come out and meet some rocket enthusiasts and watch you launch your rockets.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > -brad
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From k2tsai at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 10:34:43 2010
From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:34:43 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
In-Reply-To: <SNT104-W283486E556E0BFE9B074AEB94A0@phx.gbl>
References: <7816cff1002131646s63d45395w6caafd1da3bd6ef2@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT104-W283486E556E0BFE9B074AEB94A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7816cff1002151034s3bd25d9ar43d16c6e6e6dbe1@mail.gmail.com>

Time to put a stick in the sand:  Assuming the weather holds, I'll be
out at 60 Acres with my son on Sunday, 12/21.  We'll be there from
12:00-3:00 (maybe 4:00) for an unofficial, unorganized afternoon of
black powder and composite burning fun.

I'll be bringing 1/8, 3/16, and 1/4" rods to test on a new
"modification" to our Mantis pad that allows all the rods to be
mounted at the same time.  If someone wants to haul a rail out, that
should cover the GSE for just about anything that should fly.

Brad, 60 Acres is a class 1 site only.  There are no waivers/FAA
issues to deal with.  Keep it to G impulse or less, and it's all good.
 Max weight is 3.3 lbs with motor, and max propellant is 125g.

The site is a wide open field ~1200' square. To the northeast is a
horse ranch which isn't too friendly (depending on whom you run into).
The northwest is an open field, but there are also trees to contend
with.

Trying to keep everything under ~2500' is a good idea over all.  Less
if there's wind.

The Initiator on a G76 runs to ~2000' (according to Aerotech), so you
should be fine.

Cheers,
 - Ken

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com> wrote:
> The weather looks very promising for?the weekend of the 20th.
>
> I just finished assembly of an Aerotech Initiator and was wondering if it's
> possible to get FAA clearance to launch at 60 acres?? If yes, which ATC
> is?the appropriate one to call?
>
> -brad
>
>> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:46:47 -0800
>> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
>>
>> Weather doesn't look so good this weekend. I'm planning on being out
>> next weekend, though. Haven't decided on Saturday or Sunday. Right
>> now, weather looks better for Saturday, but I'll be keeping an eye on
>> that through the week.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Ken
>>
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:31:40 -0800
>> > From: Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com>
>> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
>> > Message-ID: <SNT104-W19A7D7317591BBBA4DA04FB94D0 at phx.gbl>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello, I was wondering if there are any plans to launch some rockets
>> > this weekend. ?I was out last Sunday and found out that a group with rockets
>> > had just left just prior to our arrival. ?Would love to come out and meet
>> > some rocket enthusiasts and watch you launch your rockets.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > -brad
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>

From k2tsai at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 10:40:48 2010
From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:40:48 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
In-Reply-To: <7816cff1002151034s3bd25d9ar43d16c6e6e6dbe1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7816cff1002131646s63d45395w6caafd1da3bd6ef2@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT104-W283486E556E0BFE9B074AEB94A0@phx.gbl>
	<7816cff1002151034s3bd25d9ar43d16c6e6e6dbe1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7816cff1002151040w6ae0c637g825b749f530c942a@mail.gmail.com>

Ummm... 2/21  - Feb 21, not 12/21. :)

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Ken Tsai <k2tsai at gmail.com> wrote:
> Time to put a stick in the sand: ?Assuming the weather holds, I'll be
> out at 60 Acres with my son on Sunday, 12/21. ?We'll be there from
> 12:00-3:00 (maybe 4:00) for an unofficial, unorganized afternoon of
> black powder and composite burning fun.
>
> I'll be bringing 1/8, 3/16, and 1/4" rods to test on a new
> "modification" to our Mantis pad that allows all the rods to be
> mounted at the same time. ?If someone wants to haul a rail out, that
> should cover the GSE for just about anything that should fly.
>
> Brad, 60 Acres is a class 1 site only. ?There are no waivers/FAA
> issues to deal with. ?Keep it to G impulse or less, and it's all good.
> ?Max weight is 3.3 lbs with motor, and max propellant is 125g.
>
> The site is a wide open field ~1200' square. To the northeast is a
> horse ranch which isn't too friendly (depending on whom you run into).
> The northwest is an open field, but there are also trees to contend
> with.
>
> Trying to keep everything under ~2500' is a good idea over all. ?Less
> if there's wind.
>
> The Initiator on a G76 runs to ~2000' (according to Aerotech), so you
> should be fine.
>
> Cheers,
> ?- Ken
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The weather looks very promising for?the weekend of the 20th.
>>
>> I just finished assembly of an Aerotech Initiator and was wondering if it's
>> possible to get FAA clearance to launch at 60 acres?? If yes, which ATC
>> is?the appropriate one to call?
>>
>> -brad
>>
>>> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:46:47 -0800
>>> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
>>>
>>> Weather doesn't look so good this weekend. I'm planning on being out
>>> next weekend, though. Haven't decided on Saturday or Sunday. Right
>>> now, weather looks better for Saturday, but I'll be keeping an eye on
>>> that through the week.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> - Ken
>>>
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 2
>>> > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:31:40 -0800
>>> > From: Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com>
>>> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
>>> > Message-ID: <SNT104-W19A7D7317591BBBA4DA04FB94D0 at phx.gbl>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hello, I was wondering if there are any plans to launch some rockets
>>> > this weekend. ?I was out last Sunday and found out that a group with rockets
>>> > had just left just prior to our arrival. ?Would love to come out and meet
>>> > some rocket enthusiasts and watch you launch your rockets.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> >
>>> > -brad
>>> >
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>
>

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Mon Feb 15 11:46:14 2010
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:46:14 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
References: <7816cff1002131646s63d45395w6caafd1da3bd6ef2@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT104-W283486E556E0BFE9B074AEB94A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B30047B@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Unless you've modified the kit, the Initiator isn't supposed to accept anything longer than a hobby case, so you'd be limited to G impulse by the physical dimensions of the motor mount.
 
As Ken already mentioned in another reply, there's no need to call for clearance on anything G or lower.
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Brad McClure
Sent: Mon 2/15/2010 10:05 AM
To: k2tsai at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??




The weather looks very promising for the weekend of the 20th. 



I just finished assembly of an Aerotech Initiator and was wondering if it's possible to get FAA clearance to launch at 60 acres?  If yes, which ATC is the appropriate one to call?


-brad


> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:46:47 -0800
> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
>
> Weather doesn't look so good this weekend. I'm planning on being out
> next weekend, though. Haven't decided on Saturday or Sunday. Right
> now, weather looks better for Saturday, but I'll be keeping an eye on
> that through the week.
>
> Cheers,
> - Ken
>
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:31:40 -0800
> > From: Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
> > Message-ID: <SNT104-W19A7D7317591BBBA4DA04FB94D0 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >
> > Hello, I was wondering if there are any plans to launch some rockets this weekend.  I was out last Sunday and found out that a group with rockets had just left just prior to our arrival.  Would love to come out and meet some rocket enthusiasts and watch you launch your rockets.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > -brad
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
                                         
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From davewalp at comcast.net  Mon Feb 15 12:35:44 2010
From: davewalp at comcast.net (davewalp at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:35:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acre Launch on Sunday 21-Feb (was Valentines weekend
 @ 60 Acres ??)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1266264004.3089.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <893734664.3698261266266144796.JavaMail.root@sz0034a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



Hi 



Ian & I will also be there on the Sunday 21st and as part of our normal sharable GSE we will have a rail. 



Started the dance to the weather gods, hopefully I can keep it up until Sunday. 



_dave_ 



------------------------------------------------------------ 
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:46:14 -0800 
From: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org> 
To: "Brad McClure" <bradmcclure at hotmail.com>, <k2tsai at gmail.com>, 
????????<rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ?? 
Message-ID: 
????????<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B30047B at CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> 
Content-Type: text/plain;????????charset="iso-8859-1" 

Unless you've modified the kit, the Initiator isn't supposed to accept anything longer than a hobby case, so you'd be limited to G impulse by the physical dimensions of the motor mount. 
? 
As Ken already mentioned in another reply, there's no need to call for clearance on anything G or lower. 
? 
Peter Schurke 
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor 
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy 
Ingraham High School 
1819 N 135th St. 
Seattle, WA ?98133 

________________________________ 

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Brad McClure 
Sent: Mon 2/15/2010 10:05 AM 
To: k2tsai at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ?? 




The weather looks very promising for the weekend of the 20th. 



I just finished assembly of an Aerotech Initiator and was wondering if it's possible to get FAA clearance to launch at 60 acres? ?If yes, which ATC is the appropriate one to call? 


-brad 


> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:46:47 -0800 
> From: k2tsai at gmail.com 
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ?? 
> 
> Weather doesn't look so good this weekend. I'm planning on being out 
> next weekend, though. Haven't decided on Saturday or Sunday. Right 
> now, weather looks better for Saturday, but I'll be keeping an eye on 
> that through the week. 
> 
> Cheers, 
> - Ken 
> 
> > ------------------------------ 
> > 
> > Message: 2 
> > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:31:40 -0800 
> > From: Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com> 
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ?? 
> > Message-ID: <SNT104-W19A7D7317591BBBA4DA04FB94D0 at phx.gbl> 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 
> > 
> > 
> > Hello, I was wondering if there are any plans to launch some rockets this weekend. ?I was out last Sunday and found out that a group with rockets had just left just prior to our arrival. ?Would love to come out and meet some rocket enthusiasts and watch you launch your rockets. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks 
> > 
> > -brad 
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 
?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
? 




------------------------------ 

_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 


End of Rockets Digest, Vol 39, Issue 1 
************************************** 

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:32:25 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:32:25 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] NWR Photo uploads
Message-ID: <A3C8A7DABC734C279C8D7D212DC3A870@LaptopKrausert>

Please archive for future reference:

Just a reminder regarding the NorthwestRocketry website. As rocket projects progress and as events have began to happen. I want to remind everyone how to share images. 

>From the main page of www.northwestrocketry.com click on the link of Upload Photos. The password is nwrupload. Browse to your image and select. The "Brag Here" field is for you to provide a title or description. Once you submit, the image will be immediately available on the Recent Photos link. 

Want to make sure we all use the site. This feature was added by the request of Fred Azinger. We never wanted the redesign of the site to create restrictions to share photos. This site is your site. Feel free to send improvement ideas. We, the NWR web team, are listening. 

For videos... Post them to a cloud site, such as YouTube and send the link. We'll promptly post the embed of the video. We want to try to keep most videos off site to control space, so that we don't need to delete or archive content, as in the past. 

Cheers,
Robert


From bradmcclure at hotmail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:40:55 2010
From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:40:55 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B30047B@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <7816cff1002131646s63d45395w6caafd1da3bd6ef2@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT104-W283486E556E0BFE9B074AEB94A0@phx.gbl>,
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B30047B@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W412C3FE509820F59CB4AAB94A0@phx.gbl>


Great news Ken/Peter  I appreciate the info.  Built the kit stock so it should be fine.  Hopefully Sunday will be as nice as it was this morning!  

 

Looking forward to meeting everyone.

 

Cheers

-brad
 
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:46:14 -0800
> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> To: bradmcclure at hotmail.com; k2tsai at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> 
> Unless you've modified the kit, the Initiator isn't supposed to accept anything longer than a hobby case, so you'd be limited to G impulse by the physical dimensions of the motor mount.
> 
> As Ken already mentioned in another reply, there's no need to call for clearance on anything G or lower.
> 
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St.
> Seattle, WA 98133
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Brad McClure
> Sent: Mon 2/15/2010 10:05 AM
> To: k2tsai at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The weather looks very promising for the weekend of the 20th. 
> 
> 
> 
> I just finished assembly of an Aerotech Initiator and was wondering if it's possible to get FAA clearance to launch at 60 acres? If yes, which ATC is the appropriate one to call?
> 
> 
> -brad
> 
> 
> > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:46:47 -0800
> > From: k2tsai at gmail.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
> >
> > Weather doesn't look so good this weekend. I'm planning on being out
> > next weekend, though. Haven't decided on Saturday or Sunday. Right
> > now, weather looks better for Saturday, but I'll be keeping an eye on
> > that through the week.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > - Ken
> >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:31:40 -0800
> > > From: Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com>
> > > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Valentines weekend @ 60 Acres ??
> > > Message-ID: <SNT104-W19A7D7317591BBBA4DA04FB94D0 at phx.gbl>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello, I was wondering if there are any plans to launch some rockets this weekend. I was out last Sunday and found out that a group with rockets had just left just prior to our arrival. Would love to come out and meet some rocket enthusiasts and watch you launch your rockets.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > -brad
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> 
 		 	   		  

From rnech at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 16 18:18:55 2010
From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:18:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA plans more outreach to Muslim countries
Message-ID: <945871.85903.qm@web111415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_space_thewritestuff/2010/02/nasa-plans-more-outreach-to-muslim-countries.html


      

From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Tue Feb 16 18:30:49 2010
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:30:49 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA plans more outreach to Muslim countries
Message-ID: <SNT125-W2500DD5CD999474208184EB5480@phx.gbl>







>From the 1 comment . . .very well put !

"This is more indication that space exploration has been relegated to 
being a status symbol, rather than a serious program. To expand our 
commerce into space we need to concentrate, and not shop it around as a 
bauble for some authoritarian leader. We need to have a program and then
 see who could contribute ? hint: Japan and Europe ? instead of starting
 with Indonesia and then seeing what they want to do. Maybe they don?t 
have any goals in space ? or we could fake up another experiment that 
deals with oil I guess."

As usual RN stirrin th' pot !   ;>)       
Keepitup...              Vinny

> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:18:55 -0800
> From: rnech at yahoo.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA plans more outreach to Muslim countries
> 
> http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_space_thewritestuff/2010/02/nasa-plans-more-outreach-to-muslim-countries.html
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Tue Feb 16 23:10:36 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:10:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA plans more outreach to Muslim countries
In-Reply-To: <SNT125-W2500DD5CD999474208184EB5480@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT125-W2500DD5CD999474208184EB5480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <63410ea39833997f0f36cfba45a2d5f7.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

I liked the link from that article to a blog about people thinking about
reviving Buran as a shuttle replacement.  Fits the pattern of the US as an
empire in decline!

But we can't just refit the original Soviet Buran.  In another sad
commentary about space exploration, the one and only Buran that flew was
destroyed when a roof collapsed onto it.  The Russians probably couldn't
afford the cost of snow removal, and they're the ones we went to for help
in covering the cost of ISS...and now we want to have our 'good friends'
the Indonesians join with us in exploring space?

Shoot, let's just ask the Haitians to bail out NASA financially and
subcontract launch vehicle development to N. Korea.  :(

The big task now is to make sure gov't doesn't hobble commercial space
with politically correct policy limitations.  The emerging space start-ups
are raving free enterprise entrepreneurs and Obama never met a capitalist
he didn't hate.
+McG+



>>From the 1 comment . . .very well put !
>
> "This is more indication that space exploration has been relegated to
> being a status symbol, rather than a serious program. To expand our
> commerce into space we need to concentrate, and not shop it around as a
> bauble for some authoritarian leader. We need to have a program and then
>  see who could contribute ? hint: Japan and Europe ? instead of starting
>  with Indonesia and then seeing what they want to do. Maybe they don?t
> have any goals in space ? or we could fake up another experiment that
> deals with oil I guess."
>
> As usual RN stirrin th' pot !   ;>)
> Keepitup...              Vinny
>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:18:55 -0800
>> From: rnech at yahoo.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA plans more outreach to Muslim countries
>>
>> http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_space_thewritestuff/2010/02/nasa-plans-more-outreach-to-muslim-countries.html
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Wed Feb 17 00:16:51 2010
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:16:51 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA plans more outreach to Muslim countries
In-Reply-To: <63410ea39833997f0f36cfba45a2d5f7.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <SNT125-W2500DD5CD999474208184EB5480@phx.gbl>,
	<63410ea39833997f0f36cfba45a2d5f7.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <SNT125-W5459495114FEC444955D68B5480@phx.gbl>


Can you just imagine the taxes. . .Wow,  we're saved !!!
 My biggest concern is when we stop the shuttle and Russia craps out....
 Where are "Our Astro/Cosmostronauts"  left who are at the ISS ?
 I believe SHALO has been discussed on another thread... .  .  . . .eeesh.....
You have to realize the US is the "Great Hoarder"   .   .   . We have to have at least 6 or 7 
atlas's laying in a "Indiana Jones" warehouse in an "undisclosedlocation"....
 Your tax dollars at work !

Keepitup        Vinny



 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:10:36 -0800
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] NASA plans more outreach to Muslim countries
> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> To: vincesimoneau at msn.com
> CC: rnech at yahoo.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> 
> I liked the link from that article to a blog about people thinking about
> reviving Buran as a shuttle replacement.  Fits the pattern of the US as an
> empire in decline!
> 
> But we can't just refit the original Soviet Buran.  In another sad
> commentary about space exploration, the one and only Buran that flew was
> destroyed when a roof collapsed onto it.  The Russians probably couldn't
> afford the cost of snow removal, and they're the ones we went to for help
> in covering the cost of ISS...and now we want to have our 'good friends'
> the Indonesians join with us in exploring space?
> 
> Shoot, let's just ask the Haitians to bail out NASA financially and
> subcontract launch vehicle development to N. Korea.  :(
> 
> The big task now is to make sure gov't doesn't hobble commercial space
> with politically correct policy limitations.  The emerging space start-ups
> are raving free enterprise entrepreneurs and Obama never met a capitalist
> he didn't hate.
> +McG+
> 
> 
> 
> >>From the 1 comment . . .very well put !
> >
> > "This is more indication that space exploration has been relegated to
> > being a status symbol, rather than a serious program. To expand our
> > commerce into space we need to concentrate, and not shop it around as a
> > bauble for some authoritarian leader. We need to have a program and then
> >  see who could contribute ? hint: Japan and Europe ? instead of starting
> >  with Indonesia and then seeing what they want to do. Maybe they don?t
> > have any goals in space ? or we could fake up another experiment that
> > deals with oil I guess."
> >
> > As usual RN stirrin th' pot !   ;>)
> > Keepitup...              Vinny
> >
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:18:55 -0800
> >> From: rnech at yahoo.com
> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA plans more outreach to Muslim countries
> >>
> >> http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_space_thewritestuff/2010/02/nasa-plans-more-outreach-to-muslim-countries.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
 		 	   		  

From greg at blastzone.com  Wed Feb 17 11:30:58 2010
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:30:58 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] test
Message-ID: <021801cab007$bb7a8930$326f9b90$@blastzone.com>

test message, ignore


From rnech at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 13:44:18 2010
From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards
Message-ID: <185659.20308.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

http://dailycaller.com/2010/02/17/one-giant-leap-backwards/


      

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Wed Feb 17 14:34:12 2010
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:34:12 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards
In-Reply-To: <185659.20308.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <185659.20308.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF2C31A161@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com>

His logic is flawed.  Constellation was over-budget, not making real progress and using old technology.  It in and of itself was failing to have "the right stuff".    Yes we need to maintain space travel but is pouring billions into something that's just ok make sense?  

b

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Nech
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:44 PM
To: NW Rocketry
Subject: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards

http://dailycaller.com/2010/02/17/one-giant-leap-backwards/


      
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Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Wed Feb 17 15:50:08 2010
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:50:08 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards
In-Reply-To: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF2C31A161@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <185659.20308.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF2C31A161@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C80B0.9050602@hawkfeather.com>

Agreed. This article on "Big Dumb Boosters" is over 20 years old, and 
more relevant that ever.

http://www.fas.org/ota/reports/8904.pdf

Cheap big freight haulers, and smaller higher tech man rated rockets. 
Best of both worlds, and cheaper both ways.

Andrew.

Brad Wright wrote:
> His logic is flawed.  Constellation was over-budget, not making real progress and using old technology.  It in and of itself was failing to have "the right stuff".    Yes we need to maintain space travel but is pouring billions into something that's just ok make sense?  
> 
> b
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Nech
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:44 PM
> To: NW Rocketry
> Subject: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2010/02/17/one-giant-leap-backwards/
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 

From appusher at q.com  Wed Feb 17 19:11:15 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:11:15 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rebel Engineers Sit With NASA to Chart Future of Manned
	Space
Message-ID: <COL111-W553EAD5B8E96786999EC64DC470@phx.gbl>



http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/air_space/4344095.html








 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me 		 	   		  

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Wed Feb 17 19:28:37 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:28:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rebel Engineers Sit With NASA to Chart Future of
 Manned Space
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W553EAD5B8E96786999EC64DC470@phx.gbl>
References: <COL111-W553EAD5B8E96786999EC64DC470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3358c853eccbd825ad3bf993258a1c3e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Yup.  When you have a project spinning crazily out of control, stop,
rethink, and regroup.

I could be very happy with commercial space providing 'taxi and parcel
delivery service' with NASA retaining the heavy lift capability.
+McG+


> http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/air_space/4344095.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Thu Feb 18 08:21:14 2010
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:21:14 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Test
Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C584405DA@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Just a test message



Angela Dinese Wright
425-443-5049
Angelawr at wrightholdings.com


From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Thu Feb 18 09:18:19 2010
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:18:19 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Auction/Raffle 2010
Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C5844062B@BL2PRD0103MB040.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Hi everyone!  Well FITS is right around the corner and this year I have been placed fully in charge of the Raffle/Auction.  If you have anything you want to donate to the Raffle please let me know so I can make an inventory of it.

If you live near me you are welcome to get those things to me before FITS and I will manage all that stuff, or you can give it to me at FITS and I will make sure it is part of the evening of Auction fun.

As always I will sell tickets for 1.00 apiece and all the money goes back into the club.

If you have any questions or have any ideas regarding the Raffle Evening, or about what might be appropriate for the auction please let me know.

Otherwise see you soon!!  Happy Rocket Building!!!



Angela Dinese Wright
425-443-5049
Angelawr at wrightholdings.com


From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net  Thu Feb 18 13:52:15 2010
From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:52:15 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards
In-Reply-To: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF2C31A161@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <185659.20308.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF2C31A161@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <004701cab0e4$a2cff450$e86fdcf0$@Dennis42@comcast.net>

Related article on this subject..
http://dailycaller.com/2010/02/09/obama-effectively-ends-u-s-manned-space-fl
ight/


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Brad Wright
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:34 PM
To: Robert Nech; NW Rocketry
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards

His logic is flawed.  Constellation was over-budget, not making real
progress and using old technology.  It in and of itself was failing to have
"the right stuff".    Yes we need to maintain space travel but is pouring
billions into something that's just ok make sense?  

b

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Nech
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:44 PM
To: NW Rocketry
Subject: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards

http://dailycaller.com/2010/02/17/one-giant-leap-backwards/


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Thu Feb 18 22:19:13 2010
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:19:13 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards
In-Reply-To: <004701cab0e4$a2cff450$e86fdcf0$@Dennis42@comcast.net>
References: <185659.20308.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>,
	<26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF2C31A161@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com>,
	<004701cab0e4$a2cff450$e86fdcf0$@Dennis42@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <SNT125-W59EA9429B36B6CAFF18D64B5460@phx.gbl>


I wonder . . .  How many Space Explorations in a Desert Storm ?
        Vinny





 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

> From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net
> To: bradwr at wrightholdings.com; rnech at yahoo.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:52:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards
> 
> Related article on this subject..
> http://dailycaller.com/2010/02/09/obama-effectively-ends-u-s-manned-space-fl
> ight/
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Brad Wright
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:34 PM
> To: Robert Nech; NW Rocketry
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards
> 
> His logic is flawed.  Constellation was over-budget, not making real
> progress and using old technology.  It in and of itself was failing to have
> "the right stuff".    Yes we need to maintain space travel but is pouring
> billions into something that's just ok make sense?  
> 
> b
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Nech
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:44 PM
> To: NW Rocketry
> Subject: [RocketsNW] One Giant Leap Backwards
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2010/02/17/one-giant-leap-backwards/
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
 		 	   		  

From t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:16:34 2010
From: t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com (Tsolo)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:16:34 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers: Good news bad news
Message-ID: <23D986E1-E458-4B37-BD57-E1BBB6783D60@gmail.com>

Janet & I drove out yesterday to Bros. to scope it out before we drive  
out with rv next Thursday.

Here's the good news: 90% of rocks have been removed from road. Bad  
news: they didn't grade the road and there are sections that are worse  
than with rocks. I feel comfortable driving our coach in but be  
prepared to drive slowly. Pray we don't get serious rain on the road  
before we get a lot of traffic on it it could be a mess.

 From the photo I attached you can see the worst news. The owner of  
land se of launch site has fenced 640 acres and posted no tresspassing  
signs. This could gravely affect our recovery operations. Now we can't  
hike up to Twin Pines for a view either.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

PS: photo had to be left off because of size.

Tsolo Dann
NAR 82124
TRA 10359

From t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:36:25 2010
From: t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com (Tsolo)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:36:25 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Alert
Message-ID: <95755C5F-352A-4F68-809D-4EF0CA9E1306@gmail.com>


Janet & I drove out yesterday to Bros. to scope it out before we drive  
out with rv next Thursday.

Here's the good news: 90% of rocks have been removed from road. Bad  
news: they didn't grade the road and there are sections that are worse  
than with rocks. I feel comfortable driving our coach in but be  
prepared to drive slowly. Pray we don't get serious rain on the road  
before we get a lot of traffic on it it could be a mess.

 From the photo I attached you can see the worst news. The owner of  
land se of launch site has fenced 640 acres and posted no tresspassing  
signs. This could gravely affect our recovery operations. Now we can't  
hike up to Twin Pines for a view either.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Tsolo Dann
NAR 82124
TRA 10359

From t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 10:33:35 2010
From: t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com (Tsolo)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:33:35 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
Message-ID: <16C548B2-049F-449D-9C5D-2493FE927E53@gmail.com>

Actually it's good news bad news and really bad news.

Janet & I drove out yesterday to Bros. to scope it out before we drive  
out with rv next Thursday.

Here's the good news: 90% of rocks have been removed from road. Bad  
news: they didn't grade the road and there are sections that are worse  
than with rocks. I feel comfortable driving our coach in but be  
prepared to drive slowly. Pray we don't get serious rain on the road  
before we get a lot of traffic on it it could be a mess.

 From the photo I attached you can see the worst news. The owner of  
land se of launch site has fenced 640 acres and posted no tresspassing  
signs. This could gravely affect our recovery operations. Now we can't  
hike up to Twin Pines for a view either.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

-------------- next part --------------


Peace Love and Clusters

Tsolo
NAR 82124
Trip 10359

From greg at blastzone.com  Fri Feb 19 11:50:07 2010
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:50:07 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
In-Reply-To: <16C548B2-049F-449D-9C5D-2493FE927E53@gmail.com>
References: <16C548B2-049F-449D-9C5D-2493FE927E53@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <05a301cab19c$bce43f50$36acbdf0$@blastzone.com>

I've not been out there in a couple years, so I'm not up to speed on all
current events, but has there been any friction with the neighbor to the SE?
Would they be likely to grant permission for access to the area for recovery
efforts?

Would really suck to not be able to cross that line.  

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Tsolo
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:34 AM
To: NW Rockets
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news

Actually it's good news bad news and really bad news.

Janet & I drove out yesterday to Bros. to scope it out before we drive out
with rv next Thursday.

Here's the good news: 90% of rocks have been removed from road. Bad
news: they didn't grade the road and there are sections that are worse than
with rocks. I feel comfortable driving our coach in but be prepared to drive
slowly. Pray we don't get serious rain on the road before we get a lot of
traffic on it it could be a mess.

 From the photo I attached you can see the worst news. The owner of land se
of launch site has fenced 640 acres and posted no tresspassing signs. This
could gravely affect our recovery operations. Now we can't hike up to Twin
Pines for a view either.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.



From robert.krausert at intel.com  Fri Feb 19 12:05:48 2010
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:05:48 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
In-Reply-To: <05a301cab19c$bce43f50$36acbdf0$@blastzone.com>
References: <16C548B2-049F-449D-9C5D-2493FE927E53@gmail.com>
	<05a301cab19c$bce43f50$36acbdf0$@blastzone.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59614989@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Southeast? That seems really strange. That would be towards the hill w/ the two trees. Thought that was BLM land south of the road and East of Chris' property. 

Regarding friction. No. Had a great conversation with them last year, and they were happy to support our activity. 

I'll give the land owner a call this weekend, and see what's happening. 

Cheers, 
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 11:50 AM
To: 'NW Rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news

I've not been out there in a couple years, so I'm not up to speed on all
current events, but has there been any friction with the neighbor to the SE?
Would they be likely to grant permission for access to the area for recovery
efforts?

Would really suck to not be able to cross that line.  

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Tsolo
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:34 AM
To: NW Rockets
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news

Actually it's good news bad news and really bad news.

Janet & I drove out yesterday to Bros. to scope it out before we drive out
with rv next Thursday.

Here's the good news: 90% of rocks have been removed from road. Bad
news: they didn't grade the road and there are sections that are worse than
with rocks. I feel comfortable driving our coach in but be prepared to drive
slowly. Pray we don't get serious rain on the road before we get a lot of
traffic on it it could be a mess.

 From the photo I attached you can see the worst news. The owner of land se
of launch site has fenced 640 acres and posted no tresspassing signs. This
could gravely affect our recovery operations. Now we can't hike up to Twin
Pines for a view either.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Fri Feb 19 19:21:12 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:21:12 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
Message-ID: <1a5fc.69bdf246.38b0af28@aol.com>

Pretty sure that is BLM.  Somebody is probably grazing cattle out  there.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/19/2010 12:06:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
robert.krausert at intel.com writes:

Southeast? That seems really strange. That would be towards the  hill w/ 
the two trees. Thought that was BLM land south of the road and East of  Chris' 
property. 

Regarding friction. No. Had a great conversation with  them last year, and 
they were happy to support our activity. 

I'll give  the land owner a call this weekend, and see what's happening. 

Cheers,  
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From:  rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] 
On Behalf  Of Greg Deputy
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 11:50 AM
To: 'NW  Rockets'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news

I've  not been out there in a couple years, so I'm not up to speed on all
current  events, but has there been any friction with the neighbor to the 
SE?
Would  they be likely to grant permission for access to the area for  
recovery
efforts?

Would really suck to not be able to cross that  line.  

-----Original Message-----
From:  rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On  Behalf Of Tsolo
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:34 AM
To: NW  Rockets
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news

Actually  it's good news bad news and really bad news.

Janet & I drove out  yesterday to Bros. to scope it out before we drive out
with rv next  Thursday.

Here's the good news: 90% of rocks have been removed from  road. Bad
news: they didn't grade the road and there are sections that are  worse than
with rocks. I feel comfortable driving our coach in but be  prepared to 
drive
slowly. Pray we don't get serious rain on the road before  we get a lot of
traffic on it it could be a mess.

>From the photo I  attached you can see the worst news. The owner of land se
of launch site  has fenced 640 acres and posted no tresspassing signs. This
could gravely  affect our recovery operations. Now we can't hike up to Twin
Pines for a  view either.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad  news.


_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 19:40:21 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:40:21 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
References: <1a5fc.69bdf246.38b0af28@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A18422CBC8E64BC7BFDE5F64E1468734@LaptopKrausert>

I've contacted the owner.

I'll let you know the results. Should be ok. Plus that's a clear violation 
of use rules (CCRs) for this area. If the area is BLM, they cannot prevent 
access for recovery of personal property. But this isn't the BLM plot. 
Please let me work this with the owner

Please also be careful of what is said on the list. It's internal 
searchable, and all posts are archived.

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
To: <robert.krausert at intel.com>; <greg at blastzone.com>; 
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news


> Pretty sure that is BLM.  Somebody is probably grazing cattle out  there.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/19/2010 12:06:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> robert.krausert at intel.com writes:
>
> Southeast? That seems really strange. That would be towards the  hill w/
> the two trees. Thought that was BLM land south of the road and East of 
> Chris'
> property.
>
> Regarding friction. No. Had a great conversation with  them last year, and
> they were happy to support our activity.
>
> I'll give  the land owner a call this weekend, and see what's happening.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:  rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf  Of Greg Deputy
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 11:50 AM
> To: 'NW  Rockets'
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
>
> I've  not been out there in a couple years, so I'm not up to speed on all
> current  events, but has there been any friction with the neighbor to the
> SE?
> Would  they be likely to grant permission for access to the area for
> recovery
> efforts?
>
> Would really suck to not be able to cross that  line.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:  rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On  Behalf Of Tsolo
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:34 AM
> To: NW  Rockets
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
>
> Actually  it's good news bad news and really bad news.
>
> Janet & I drove out  yesterday to Bros. to scope it out before we drive 
> out
> with rv next  Thursday.
>
> Here's the good news: 90% of rocks have been removed from  road. Bad
> news: they didn't grade the road and there are sections that are  worse 
> than
> with rocks. I feel comfortable driving our coach in but be  prepared to
> drive
> slowly. Pray we don't get serious rain on the road before  we get a lot of
> traffic on it it could be a mess.
>
>>From the photo I  attached you can see the worst news. The owner of land 
>>se
> of launch site  has fenced 640 acres and posted no tresspassing signs. 
> This
> could gravely  affect our recovery operations. Now we can't hike up to 
> Twin
> Pines for a  view either.
>
> Sorry to be the bearer of bad  news.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets  mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:41:23 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:41:23 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] New Rules for Brothers until further notice
Message-ID: <97EB22424692402B8FCBE1D72B903B86@LaptopKrausert>

To give everyone a visual. Think of the road we arrive on, and then turn right to the flight line. At that intersection, there is a road to the east. Same road as the flight line road. There is now a fenced gate there. This fence goes North to about where Quadzilla is, and all the way up the hill. This is all East of the in coming road.

Effective Immediately:
The new rule is that no one shall enter this property unless for the purpose of rocket recovery. There are "no trespassing" signs posted. The gate is not locked. We will not enter the property. But one shall enter if retrieving personal property. Such as a rocket. You are allowed to gather personal property if no access phone number is available. If they post a phone number to the signs, the rules may require calling for permission. But for now, we'll only enter for recovery. 

The owner of this land is not the ones that own the area where highpower is located. I'm seeking and will be in contact with the owner. I will be in contact with them. 

These new rules are in effect and will remain so until otherwise notified.

Cheers,
Robert

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:45:31 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:45:31 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
References: <16C548B2-049F-449D-9C5D-2493FE927E53@gmail.com><05a301cab19c$bce43f50$36acbdf0$@blastzone.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59614989@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <8976E0DC09C244AE87DE54666A132D5F@LaptopKrausert>

Spoke with the owner. He declared that the section fenced is not his.

Please refer to me other email, regarding immediate change in rules.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Krausert, Robert" <robert.krausert at intel.com>
To: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>; "'NW Rockets'" 
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news


> Southeast? That seems really strange. That would be towards the hill w/ 
> the two trees. Thought that was BLM land south of the road and East of 
> Chris' property.
>
> Regarding friction. No. Had a great conversation with them last year, and 
> they were happy to support our activity.
>
> I'll give the land owner a call this weekend, and see what's happening.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] 
> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 11:50 AM
> To: 'NW Rockets'
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
>
> I've not been out there in a couple years, so I'm not up to speed on all
> current events, but has there been any friction with the neighbor to the 
> SE?
> Would they be likely to grant permission for access to the area for 
> recovery
> efforts?
>
> Would really suck to not be able to cross that line.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Tsolo
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:34 AM
> To: NW Rockets
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers good news bad news
>
> Actually it's good news bad news and really bad news.
>
> Janet & I drove out yesterday to Bros. to scope it out before we drive out
> with rv next Thursday.
>
> Here's the good news: 90% of rocks have been removed from road. Bad
> news: they didn't grade the road and there are sections that are worse 
> than
> with rocks. I feel comfortable driving our coach in but be prepared to 
> drive
> slowly. Pray we don't get serious rain on the road before we get a lot of
> traffic on it it could be a mess.
>
> From the photo I attached you can see the worst news. The owner of land se
> of launch site has fenced 640 acres and posted no tresspassing signs. This
> could gravely affect our recovery operations. Now we can't hike up to Twin
> Pines for a view either.
>
> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:29:13 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:29:13 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Which do you prefer?
Message-ID: <e83b26701002201129r49a199f1g678f67c3df5f60ff@mail.gmail.com>

1: Mounting your fins then shaping them.

2: Shaping your fins then mounting them.

3: Partially shaping your fins then mount them and finish shaping.

From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Sat Feb 20 11:35:53 2010
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:35:53 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Which do you prefer?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002201129r49a199f1g678f67c3df5f60ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C7A57999.1B2E%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>

My fins are usually shaped before I mount them.  I might sand a little just
to give them a better finish before I paint but in my experience its way too
much work to mount them then try to shape them to the way you want them
while they are on the rocket.  You don't have as much freedom to move them
around and do what you need too.

red


On 2/20/10 11:29 AM, "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
wrote:

> 1: Mounting your fins then shaping them.
> 
> 2: Shaping your fins then mounting them.
> 
> 3: Partially shaping your fins then mount them and finish shaping.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 



From selannan at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 12:26:44 2010
From: selannan at yahoo.com (Sean Lannan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:26:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: Re:  Which do you prefer?
Message-ID: <954054.84485.qm@web112316.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>



--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Sean Lannan <selannan at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Sean Lannan <selannan at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Which do you prefer?
> To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 12:25 PM
> Shape, mount then fine tune them.
> 
> S.
> 
> --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Which do you prefer?
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 11:29 AM
> > 1: Mounting your fins then shaping
> > them.
> > 
> > 2: Shaping your fins then mounting them.
> > 
> > 3: Partially shaping your fins then mount them and
> finish
> > shaping.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > ? 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 


      

From greg at blastzone.com  Sat Feb 20 19:51:39 2010
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:51:39 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Which do you prefer?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002201129r49a199f1g678f67c3df5f60ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26701002201129r49a199f1g678f67c3df5f60ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06c601cab2a9$2c974a10$85c5de30$@blastzone.com>

I shape first.  It can be real unwieldy to get a fin in the right position
to hit with the belt sander or get on a jig when there's a rocket attached
to it.  Especially if it's a BIG rocket.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:29 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Which do you prefer?

1: Mounting your fins then shaping them.

2: Shaping your fins then mounting them.

3: Partially shaping your fins then mount them and finish shaping.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sat Feb 20 20:00:36 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:00:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Which do you prefer?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002201129r49a199f1g678f67c3df5f60ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26701002201129r49a199f1g678f67c3df5f60ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c139677a5e9f37fd35a712c0fda1cfd1.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Like everyone else, shape, then mount, maybe slight touch-up after
mounting if necessary.  I discovered early on when I was a kid that
sanding fins after mounting didn't really work.
+McG+


> 1: Mounting your fins then shaping them.
>
> 2: Shaping your fins then mounting them.
>
> 3: Partially shaping your fins then mount them and finish shaping.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From rnech at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 06:16:25 2010
From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Space Shuttle Endeavour Landing at 7:20PM PST
Message-ID: <993938.57176.qm@web111402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Endeavour's astronauts will be awakened at 2:14 p.m. EST to begin preparing for landing. The ship's 60-foot-long payload bay doors are scheduled to be closed at 6:34 p.m., followed by the transition of onboard computers to the software for entry and the crew donning its spacesuits. 

A final decision whether to land on time will come around 9 p.m., leading to ignition of Endeavour's braking rockets at 9:14:52 p.m. for 2 minutes and 38 seconds to start the trek home. The shuttle would hit the upper atmosphere at 9:49 p.m. 

Landing on Runway 15 at the Kennedy Space Center is scheduled for 10:20:37 p.m. EST. 

If the weather or a problem forces entry flight director Norm Knight to scrub the day's first re-entry opportunity and keep Endeavour in space, there is a backup landing option available one orbit later. That would begin with a deorbit engine firing at 10:50:52 p.m. and a touchdown in Florida at 11:55:50 p.m. EST. 

NASA is calling up support from the alternate landing site at Edwards Air Force Base in the Mojave Desert of California. So if the weather prevents a landing in Florida, the spacecraft could be diverted there. The first deorbit opportunity will be 12:20:31 a.m. EST and landing on the temporary Runway 22R at 1:25:41 a.m. EST. A second shot into Edwards would come an orbit later. 

However, weather forecasters are calling for the chance of low clouds and rain showers at both landing sites on Sunday night.

http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts130/status.html


      

From rwjcom at comcast.net  Sun Feb 21 11:00:01 2010
From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:00:01 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions
Message-ID: <38A2D0E1-8A16-4D9E-8666-4C937160D8D0@comcast.net>

All,

I'm going to take advantage of what seems like a lull in activity here  
following the comprehensive discussion on how best to elevate home  
furnishings to put out some questions that I have as I work down  
through the detail levels on my first scratch built project.

It will be built around 54mm motor mount, be 4" in diameter and six  
feet long.  My plan is for an all fiberglass build out of purchased  
off-the-shelf components.  The mission for this rocket is to be a  
durable learning platform that I can use to build my experience with  
various motors, electronics, deployment and recovery strategies, etc.  
I do want to build the rocket so that it will survive and thrive on  
some high impulse motors.  Several of the motors that I have sim'd  
with so far produce acceleration greater that 1000 ft/sec/sec and max  
speed near or over mach.

But again, the mission here is a durable learning platform rather than  
an envelope stretcher.  As such, I am not necessarily looking for the  
right answers if this were a minimum diameter, high-impulse speed and  
altitude record attempt.  Rather I am hoping for some practical advise  
that is appropriate for a minivan of a rocket.

I'll break my list up into a number of smaller posts so that each  
question can die a natural death on its own time without having to  
drag the full history of the thread around with it.

The two major subject areas where I have some questions are E-bay  
design, attachment and construction, and tail cones. It looks like  
there will likely be a third post with misc stuff and simulation  
related questions.

Thanks in advance to those that have help to offer, and my apologies  
for disturbing the sleep of everyone else.

First Set of Q's coming soon to a list-serv near you.



Best,


Bob Jimerson

From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Feb 21 11:08:35 2010
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:08:35 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions
In-Reply-To: <38A2D0E1-8A16-4D9E-8666-4C937160D8D0@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C7A6C4B3.1B65%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>

NO worries man you can ask all you need to here.  And the guys just like to
rib me about how I don't allow rocket building on the dining room table
while most of them usually DO build on the table  Its just a long standing
joke they have with me.  Trust me it wont ever get old... :)

Welcome and good luck!!

Red



On 2/21/10 11:00 AM, "Bob Jimerson" <rwjcom at comcast.net> wrote:

> All,
> 
> I'm going to take advantage of what seems like a lull in activity here
> following the comprehensive discussion on how best to elevate home
> furnishings to put out some questions that I have as I work down
> through the detail levels on my first scratch built project.
> 
> It will be built around 54mm motor mount, be 4" in diameter and six
> feet long.  My plan is for an all fiberglass build out of purchased
> off-the-shelf components.  The mission for this rocket is to be a
> durable learning platform that I can use to build my experience with
> various motors, electronics, deployment and recovery strategies, etc.
> I do want to build the rocket so that it will survive and thrive on
> some high impulse motors.  Several of the motors that I have sim'd
> with so far produce acceleration greater that 1000 ft/sec/sec and max
> speed near or over mach.
> 
> But again, the mission here is a durable learning platform rather than
> an envelope stretcher.  As such, I am not necessarily looking for the
> right answers if this were a minimum diameter, high-impulse speed and
> altitude record attempt.  Rather I am hoping for some practical advise
> that is appropriate for a minivan of a rocket.
> 
> I'll break my list up into a number of smaller posts so that each
> question can die a natural death on its own time without having to
> drag the full history of the thread around with it.
> 
> The two major subject areas where I have some questions are E-bay
> design, attachment and construction, and tail cones. It looks like
> there will likely be a third post with misc stuff and simulation
> related questions.
> 
> Thanks in advance to those that have help to offer, and my apologies
> for disturbing the sleep of everyone else.
> 
> First Set of Q's coming soon to a list-serv near you.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Bob Jimerson
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 



From fred at azinger.com  Sun Feb 21 11:15:49 2010
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:15:49 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions
In-Reply-To: <38A2D0E1-8A16-4D9E-8666-4C937160D8D0@comcast.net>
References: <38A2D0E1-8A16-4D9E-8666-4C937160D8D0@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <004a01cab32a$47883e70$d698bb50$@com>

I see a problem already ... use a 75mm motor mount! ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bob Jimerson
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:00 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions

All,

I'm going to take advantage of what seems like a lull in activity here  
following the comprehensive discussion on how best to elevate home  
furnishings to put out some questions that I have as I work down  
through the detail levels on my first scratch built project.

It will be built around 54mm motor mount, be 4" in diameter and six  
feet long.  My plan is for an all fiberglass build out of purchased  
off-the-shelf components.  The mission for this rocket is to be a  
durable learning platform that I can use to build my experience with  
various motors, electronics, deployment and recovery strategies, etc.  
I do want to build the rocket so that it will survive and thrive on  
some high impulse motors.  Several of the motors that I have sim'd  
with so far produce acceleration greater that 1000 ft/sec/sec and max  
speed near or over mach.

But again, the mission here is a durable learning platform rather than  
an envelope stretcher.  As such, I am not necessarily looking for the  
right answers if this were a minimum diameter, high-impulse speed and  
altitude record attempt.  Rather I am hoping for some practical advise  
that is appropriate for a minivan of a rocket.

I'll break my list up into a number of smaller posts so that each  
question can die a natural death on its own time without having to  
drag the full history of the thread around with it.

The two major subject areas where I have some questions are E-bay  
design, attachment and construction, and tail cones. It looks like  
there will likely be a third post with misc stuff and simulation  
related questions.

Thanks in advance to those that have help to offer, and my apologies  
for disturbing the sleep of everyone else.

First Set of Q's coming soon to a list-serv near you.



Best,


Bob Jimerson
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From rwjcom at comcast.net  Sun Feb 21 11:20:19 2010
From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:20:19 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] The Neubish Chronicles: Ch. 1 - Tail Cones
Message-ID: <78CAC59B-58D7-4138-B1B1-F6ADC158917C@comcast.net>


My first set of questions involves tail cones.

I want to use some sort of a tail cone on this rocket to help protect  
the fins during landing. I am thinking that this supports the overall  
objective of durability for the rocket.  I am leaning toward the Aero  
Pack version, but the new Ogive profile from Giant Leap may get the  
nod.  For lack of experience or understanding I am leaning against the  
built-in transition.

Thoughts and ponderments:

Tail cones - Use a tail cone motor mount or build in a transition  
section?
Motor mount adaptor seems easier - no slotting for fins, but  
necessarily moves the CP forward compared to a transition that is  
slotted for fins and allow fins to be closer to the tail.
Motor mount tail cone seems like it could be fussy as far as  
installation and positioning of motor mount.
Unless the transition is left unslotted and the fins are left in the  
body tube, the same issues of moving the CP forward exists with a  
transition piece.  The transitions also seem to have 4" shoulders  
which would complicate fabrication of the fin section.
I have not found any drawings of available tail cone retailer adaptors  
so I have to guess that there is little (if any) shoulder where the  
wide end of the cone meets the body tube.
I am also assuming that the tail cone is threaded and becomes the  
retaining nut that tightens down against the rear of the motor.
If both of the above are true, and that the most important function of  
the motor retainer is to retain the motor, then it seems like there is  
a pretty narrow range of tolerance during construction.
If the motor tube is just a little too short, then the cone will  
bottom out on the body tube rather than on the motor casing leaving  
the motor loose.
If the motor tube is just a little too long, then a gap will be left  
between the tail cone and the body tube resulting in embarrassment and  
instability as the center of confidence moves lower and is overwhelmed  
by the twin perturbing influences of public humiliation and unmet  
personal high standards.

Questions:

	
Does anyone have a URL for drawings of the Aero Pack or Giant Leap  
Cones? I'd like to "see" them before finalizing my plans.
How fussy is the installation of these tail cone adaptors?  What kind  
of tolerance do you have in positioning the motor tube out the back of  
the rocket?
General thoughts, advise, warnings, etc on the use of tail cone motor  
retainers vs building the tail cone into the rocket and using a more  
conventional retainer?

Bob

From rwjcom at comcast.net  Sun Feb 21 11:36:13 2010
From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:36:13 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement
Message-ID: <D64CF17E-6C99-402C-AE38-E167CE6E4FB1@comcast.net>

Here is the threatened post regarding E-bays.

I am thinking of using an e-bay design that allows the e-bay to be  
moved between rockets rather than a design where it is a permanent  
part of the rocket.  Gluing it in place makes some things easier, but  
is not the route that I'd prefer to go on this one.

E-bays of the non-permanent type
How mount the removable/transient E-bay to the body tube?
How many of what type of fastener are used
Any concerns about transferring loads from the recovery system to  
these relatively small fasteners in a trough-the-wall application.
It seems odd that we are advised to use only welded or forged eye  
bolts of the highest possible grade for shock cord attachment for fear  
of them failing from the forces generated by deployment of parachutes,  
but that short and thin treaded bolts (screws really) running through  
unreinforced thin walled fiberglass tubes work out just fine. Aren't  
the exotic eye bolts that our high strength shock cords are attached  
to mounted to the E-bay?
How to deal with switches for electronics?
Are the switches mounted into the wall of the E-Bay and then aligned  
with holes in the body tube? That seems to require that the switched  
be mounted inside of the outer diameter of the E-bay tube and require  
a few largish holes in the body tubes.
Or are the switched mounted to to body tube outside of the E-bay foot  
print and somehow connected to the E-bay after it is installed in the  
body tube.  It is a little hard to see how this would work without  
putting ones hand in close proximity to ejection charges while hooking  
up the wires that will fire those charges - might just be me, but that  
sounds like a bad idea.
Protecting against ejection charge gases?
How much protection is enough?
Foam gaskets
O-rings
Wet glaze with structural silicone?
A couple of screws and a reasonably snug fit between the bulk plate  
and the e-bay tube?
Cool E-Bay tricks?
Mounting hardware for altimeters - standard standoff or other
Plywood vs fiberglass for mounting boards for altimeters
Pro's and Con's of using a single larger threaded rod vs multiple  
smaller rods
Other?

The Questions:

How to securely attach such an e-bay to the rocket for flight.   
Number, type and location of fasteners and reinforcements?
How to mount the arming switches so that they can be accessed on the  
pad without resorting to a bunch of big and deep holes in the side of  
the rocket.
What are some good ways to seal up the e-bay to protect the contents  
from those nasty combustion byproducts?
All the other stuff I should have asked, but didn't.

Thanks to all,



Bob

From rwjcom at comcast.net  Sun Feb 21 11:44:18 2010
From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:44:18 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicles: Chapter 3 - misc.
Message-ID: <4CB068C2-8C9C-4827-B0E8-95D89379FE03@comcast.net>



A couple of more general questions for now and then out to enjoy the  
sunshine.

I'm having a bit of trouble running down Rocksim files for things like  
Performance Rocketry tubes, nosecones, and compnents from other  
manufacturers. I sure don't see that information on the mfg's  
websites. If I am just missing something obvious in my web searches  
could someone please point me to the source

Related, but a bit different, question about where to find cross  
section drawing for things like nose cones, motor mounts, motor  
adaptors, etc?  It seems like it would be a big help to vendors in  
selling their wares if those of us in the market for them could see  
enough detail to understand how they would fit into our designs and  
any issues that we need to accommodate for before pulling out a credit  
card - or even worse - the epoxy remover.


Thanks again to everyone that plays along.

Best,



Bob

From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Feb 21 11:48:28 2010
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:48:28 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] BALLS report
Message-ID: <C7A6CE0C.1B72%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>

For those of you who were not at BALLS and for those of you who were, if you have all gotten your video and your latest magazine I need to make a correction.

My rocket, DID indeed GO UP! And it was lovely... BUT it did not get recovered.  It SMASHED into the playa with great force, leaving quite a big HOLE!  Even the battery was unrecognizable.

It was compressed and smashed so hard that even to this day I have had to pay someone else to try to cut the casing away from the rocket...

So I would like the glory of saying it was a great Flight all around.. The truth is that rocket, is no more. :(

Cheers!

Red

From rwjcom at comcast.net  Sun Feb 21 11:49:48 2010
From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:49:48 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch 4 - Payback?
Message-ID: <4081E107-4EC8-4775-96FF-9B0A8EF2E266@comcast.net>

A question of a different sort for all of those that are heading to  
FITS this year.  Would it be appropriate to offer, and would there be  
any interest in a small keg of homemade microbrew style beer for after  
hours activities?

I know a guy pretty well that has dusted off his old home brewing kit  
and is also dusting off his old home brewing skills.  He's thinking  
along the lines of an English style bitter, or perhaps a Pale Ale but  
is open to other ideas as well.

Thoughts?


Bob

From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Feb 21 11:56:53 2010
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:56:53 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch 4 - Payback?
In-Reply-To: <4081E107-4EC8-4775-96FF-9B0A8EF2E266@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C7A6D005.1B7A%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>

Speaking for myself and the other Pirate Singers, I think that this would be
SUPER!  We welcome any and all after flight activities, including, but not
limited too, Karaoke, Booze, fire building, Pirate flag waving and of
course, finding Carl's Pants! :)

Red



On 2/21/10 11:49 AM, "Bob Jimerson" <rwjcom at comcast.net> wrote:

> A question of a different sort for all of those that are heading to
> FITS this year.  Would it be appropriate to offer, and would there be
> any interest in a small keg of homemade microbrew style beer for after
> hours activities?
> 
> I know a guy pretty well that has dusted off his old home brewing kit
> and is also dusting off his old home brewing skills.  He's thinking
> along the lines of an English style bitter, or perhaps a Pale Ale but
> is open to other ideas as well.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 14:23:56 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:23:56 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] [AD] 98mm EX Casing for Sale
Message-ID: <db5a.9386e89.38b30c7c@aol.com>

I've decided to sell a 4 grain 98mm casing that I was saving for  myself.  
 
_http://binderdesign.com/Motor%20Hardware.jpg_ 
(http://binderdesign.com/Motor%20Hardware.jpg) 
 
It has a low mass fraction forward pancake style bulkhead that is engine  
turn decorated, complete with nozzle, snap rings, o-rings and stainless steel 
 nozzle washer.  Never fired.  Clear anodized with etched logo.  A  work of 
art.
 
A screaming deal @ $300.  Visa and Mastercard gladly accepted.
 
If no one locally wants it, I'll list it on the website in a few  days.  
 
Thanks,
Mike Fisher
Binder Design

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 14:34:34 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:34:34 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions
References: <38A2D0E1-8A16-4D9E-8666-4C937160D8D0@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5EB59205FFE248C490F138FE18385D52@LaptopKrausert>

Bob,
Others can explain this far better. But you mentioned something to worry 
about and take action now. You mentioned that you're expecting to come close 
to mach. A rocket goes through a lot of extremes in or near the mach speed. 
Fred Azinger said it great. If you're to exceed mach, get through it as fast 
as possible. Because the longer your in the transition zone, the more 
extreme forces your rocket must handle. A rocket that can handle mach+ 
speeds, might not be capable of handling hanging out in the mach zone over 
time.

My point. If your not ready, and have a rocket fly at a velocity close to 
mach for a extending period of time, can render fins breaking, ripping off, 
coupler breaks, etc. I personally would recommend staying away from G10 
fins. Unless you layer it with other material, like thin aircraft plywood. 
Glass or carbon fiber them.

Stay below mach, or go well pass mach fast. That should help keep things 
together.

Like I said, others can say this better than I.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Jimerson" <rwjcom at comcast.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:00 AM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions


> All,
>
> I'm going to take advantage of what seems like a lull in activity here 
> following the comprehensive discussion on how best to elevate home 
> furnishings to put out some questions that I have as I work down  through 
> the detail levels on my first scratch built project.
>
> It will be built around 54mm motor mount, be 4" in diameter and six  feet 
> long.  My plan is for an all fiberglass build out of purchased 
> off-the-shelf components.  The mission for this rocket is to be a  durable 
> learning platform that I can use to build my experience with  various 
> motors, electronics, deployment and recovery strategies, etc.  I do want 
> to build the rocket so that it will survive and thrive on  some high 
> impulse motors.  Several of the motors that I have sim'd  with so far 
> produce acceleration greater that 1000 ft/sec/sec and max  speed near or 
> over mach.
>
> But again, the mission here is a durable learning platform rather than  an 
> envelope stretcher.  As such, I am not necessarily looking for the  right 
> answers if this were a minimum diameter, high-impulse speed and  altitude 
> record attempt.  Rather I am hoping for some practical advise  that is 
> appropriate for a minivan of a rocket.
>
> I'll break my list up into a number of smaller posts so that each 
> question can die a natural death on its own time without having to  drag 
> the full history of the thread around with it.
>
> The two major subject areas where I have some questions are E-bay  design, 
> attachment and construction, and tail cones. It looks like  there will 
> likely be a third post with misc stuff and simulation  related questions.
>
> Thanks in advance to those that have help to offer, and my apologies  for 
> disturbing the sleep of everyone else.
>
> First Set of Q's coming soon to a list-serv near you.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Bob Jimerson
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 15:41:27 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 18:41:27 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] [AD] 98mm EX Casing for Sale
Message-ID: <fa9a.15fb364a.38b31ea7@aol.com>

Looks like the casing just sold.  Thanks Don in FL!
 
Mike
 
 
In a message dated 2/21/2010 2:24:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
Mfreptiles at aol.com writes:

I've  decided to sell a 4 grain 98mm casing that I was saving for   myself. 
 

_http://binderdesign.com/Motor%20Hardware.jpg_  
(http://binderdesign.com/Motor%20Hardware.jpg) 

It has a low mass  fraction forward pancake style bulkhead that is engine  
turn  decorated, complete with nozzle, snap rings, o-rings and stainless 
steel  
nozzle washer.  Never fired.  Clear anodized with etched  logo.  A  work of 
art.

A screaming deal @ $300.   Visa and Mastercard gladly accepted.

If no one locally wants it, I'll  list it on the website in a few  days.  

Thanks,
Mike  Fisher
Binder  Design
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 17:34:24 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:34:24 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] {AD} Another EX Motor deal  54MM 2800ns
Message-ID: <12347.6b9a2589.38b33920@aol.com>

Cleaning out the shop today.  Another motor that I made for myself and  
never used.
 
 
_http://binderdesign.com/Motor%20Hardware2.jpg_ 
(http://binderdesign.com/Motor%20Hardware2.jpg) 

 
29" long 54mm motor complete.  Roughly holds 2800ns.  Room for  six 4" long 
grains plus about an extra inch.  Clear anodizing with etched  logo.
 
Never fired.  Includes forward bulkhead, nozzle, nozzle washer, snap  
rings, thrust ring, O-rings.
 
$130
 
Thanks,
Mike Fisher
Binder Design
 

From robert.killen at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 18:26:36 2010
From: robert.killen at yahoo.com (Robert Killen)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 18:26:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
Message-ID: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread raised a question for me. ?Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this is purely curiosity on my part.
Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach? ?Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
Cheers!?? Robert

Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270?



      

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 18:48:20 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:48:20 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] {AD} Another EX Motor deal  54MM 2800ns
Message-ID: <136f4.62590cf1.38b34a74@aol.com>

Looks like this one sold quick too.  Thanks Jim!
 
I'll be going through my 38mm stock soon.  Probably do some package  deals 
on multiple casing sizes.
 
Mike Fisher
Binder Design
 
 
In a message dated 2/21/2010 5:34:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
Mfreptiles at aol.com writes:

Cleaning  out the shop today.  Another motor that I made for myself and   
never used.


_http://binderdesign.com/Motor%20Hardware2.jpg_  
(http://binderdesign.com/Motor%20Hardware2.jpg) 


29" long 54mm  motor complete.  Roughly holds 2800ns.  Room for  six 4" 
long  
grains plus about an extra inch.  Clear anodizing with etched   logo.

Never fired.  Includes forward bulkhead, nozzle, nozzle  washer, snap  
rings, thrust ring,  O-rings.

$130

Thanks,
Mike Fisher
Binder  Design

_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



From TFISH38 at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 18:57:22 2010
From: TFISH38 at aol.com (TFISH38 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:57:22 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
Message-ID: <13a0b.209aa6.38b34c92@aol.com>

non scientific reply to follow..as a kid growing up in the space race time  
frame. I had always heard that the sound barrier was like a wall. No one 
knew  what would happened once one of our planes passed through it. I'm sure 
we've all  stuck our hands out the window of a moving vehicle. And the faster 
the vehicle  was going the more we had to fight to keep our hand pointed in 
the direction we  wanted. Now multiply that many more times. This is what 
our rockets must fight  through to gain altitude and or speed. The faster the 
rocket goes the more air  resistance it encounters. This also creates heat 
as the rocket goes through the  air. As for mach take a look at this you 
tube video   _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX04ySm4TTk&feature=related_ 
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX04ySm4TTk&feature=related) 
Now imagine holding your hand out the window of that jet.  Can you hold 
your arm straight enough? Will your fingers want to fold  back? There are areas 
of less drag and areas of tremendous drag.
 The first time I had a rocket go 'past' mach I needed a bag to  retrieve 
it. It was a glassed 4" rocket with .125" G-10 fins. Even the fins that  
stayed on where broke in several areas. 
 
Tony
 
 
In a message dated 2/21/2010 6:27:03 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
robert.killen at yahoo.com writes:

Hi  everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread 
raised  a question for me.  Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so 
this is  purely curiosity on my part.
Since air is air is air, what creates the  extra stresses at or around 
Mach?  Does sound itself create friction or  turbulence or...?
Cheers!   Robert

Robert KillenBranding  
Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270 




_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From stevet19759 at comcast.net  Sun Feb 21 19:12:50 2010
From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:12:50 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B81F632.3000803@comcast.net>

In a very rough sense, "air" is not always "air".
The shock wave at the mach transition acts a lot like
a phase change -- like from gas to liquid.  Think of
your rocket plowing through air, then hitting water.
The supersonic transition isn't quite that dramatic
(good thing!) but it's also highly turbulent in the
area near the airframe.  In effect, the shock wave
(the "thick air") grabs things like fins, body tube
transitions, and even slight uneveness in the finish
and hangs on to them while the rocket continues forwards.
The result is often a rocket with fewer fins than it
had at launch.

Once you're well past mach 1, a stable shock wave forms
ahead of the rocket.  The rocket is then traveling along
with a surrounding bubble of air moving at almost the
same speed.  It still takes a lot of energy to keep moving
at that speed (moving the shock wave forward), but there's
much less of the "tearing" and "twisting" forces that
can damage your airframe.

Oh, and the aerodynamics of your fins are quite different
at supersonic speeds than below mach 1.  I know that's a
significant issue for planes and rockets that are steered
by control surfaces on the wings/fins; I don't know how
much of an issue that is for fixed-fin straight-line
guidance.

As I say, this is a rough approximation of what's
actually happening, but it's a convenient way to think
about it.  Perhaps one of the others on the list with
some real aeronautics background can give you a better
explanation.

-Steve Tarr


Robert Killen wrote:
> Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread raised a question for me.  Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this is purely curiosity on my part.
> Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach?  Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
> Cheers!   Robert
> 
> Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 


From cpovercg at rocketmail.com  Sun Feb 21 19:13:20 2010
From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:13:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <606551.75524.qm@web112907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but basically there is a dangerous zone (trans-sonic speed).? 
In a nut shell, sound is energy.? 
As an object approaches the speed of sound, the energy waves begin to "pile up" in front of the object (the object making the sound is beginning to catch up to the sounds it created).? 
This "pile up" of sound energy creates a LOT of turbulence because the drag increases?at different rates relative to the increase in speed in the trans-sonic zone.

Perhaps a conceptual analogy would be a wheel out of alignment.? At slow speeds the mis-alignment is not very noticeable, as your speed increases, the shake becomes pronounced but, at a certain yet higher speed it begins to subside again.?The causes of the shaking with a mis-aligned wheel are quite different from the shock waves for trans-sonic travel but like the vehicle, once an object has cleared Mach, the shock wave has passed and does not produce the turbulence.

R. Braibish



________________________________
From: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 6:26:36 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?

Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread raised a question for me. ?Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this is purely curiosity on my part.
Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach? ?Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
Cheers!?? Robert

Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270?



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From k2tsai at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 19:23:13 2010
From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:23:13 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
Message-ID: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>

What a stunning day for a February!

We got started right around noon, and the first flight was roughly 12:30.

Dave Randall was there and brought a friend. Dave brought his Patriot
out again, and also had his Excel Plus Plus.  The Patriot is just
amazingly rugged. It just keeps going and going.  The Excel was
unfortunately grounded today for extenuating circumstances - more on
that in a bit.

Dave Walp and Ian showed.  They brought their usual suspects: Mozzie,
Blackhawk, Cheetah - Another group of amazing flyers that just keep
coming back for more.  They brought more rockets in the box, but these
are the staples that beg to fly.

Alex and I brought along Alex's friend Isaac.  Isaac brought his Star
Dart - a ~1996 (I think) vintage small Estes kit.  We brought a box of
stuff, and flew a ton - No Idea (a weird tube/fin combination that we
had no idea what to name), an upscale Estes Neon, Madcow's fiberglass
Arcas, Cheetah, an Art Applewhite Scimitar, the TARDIS (Doctor Who)
from Squirrel Works, and a vintage Estes Rigel-3.

Brad showed up with his Initiator, and had a fantastic flight on a G.

There were some other rocketeers on the field enjoying the brilliant
Sunday, as well as the usual contingent of R/C plane flyers.

Isaac started the day with his Star Dart showing us the wind - none at
all.  Some gusts to the southeast, but nothing too worrisome.

Alex followed with "No Idea" on an D12-5.  No Idea is a scratch build,
~16" tall using BT56 tubing for the main.  Yeah, it really jumps on
24mm engines.  Fortunately, the large ring/fin combinations means
pretty hefty drag, so it doesn't go out of sight.

Dave Randall put his Patriot up on an AT D reload for the first
composite flight of the day.  Like I said, that Patriot just goes, and
comes back for more.

After that, things get a little hazy for me.  Dave Randall and I had
exchanged emails earlier regarding L1 Cert flights at 60 Acres.  With
the new Class 1 definitions, it's possible.  When we arrived at the
field today, Dave's first words were "Hi, Ken.  You ready for that
cert flight?"

I still haven't received my NAR number back from HQ, so I didn't come
prepared to make an attempt.  That didn't faze Dave at all.  He
promptly offered up the CTI 4g H skidmark that he had brought for the
Excel.  Just earlier this week, I had finished reinforcing the fillets
on the Arcas using chopped glass and West Systems epoxy.  Clearly
serendipity was with me today!  So with a little trepidation, I
accepted Dave's offer, and spent the next 30 minutes agonizing over my
options for the Arcas. 24, 30, or 36" chutes?  7 or 9 second delay?
Attach the quicklink to the nose bolt, or tie a loop in the kevlar
lower down??  There may have been other launches while I was prepping
- I really couldn't tell you.  Blow the whistle, count it down, and
what a roar those CTI motors make.  Gorgeous arcing flight to maybe
1500' with recovery 2' from the fence in the northwest corner.  Looked
good to me, and when I brought it back, Dave confirmed the flight.
Time to get out the credit card - lots of fun engines are gonna be on
the way.

I know I'm shorting several people here, but after the L1 flight, the
rest of the afternoon is just a haze.  Highlights for me include:
 - Cheetah drag race with Dave and Ian.  We ended up in a tree
(recoverable), they ended up on the next field over.  Maybe the F
engines weren't the best of choices.

 - Mean Machine on an AT reload.  Something about a 6' tall rocket
screaming away.

 - Brad's Initiator, on a G engine. Takes some guts to fly something
that high at 60 Acres.

 - Applewhite 29mm Scimitar (saucer) on an AT G76G.  Didn't go nearly
as high as Brad's Initiator.

 - About 15 flights of an Estes #2 Skywriter.  A family was out
documenting a school project that involved timing flights using
various engine configs.

Once more, my eternal thanks to Dave Randall for being witness to my
L1 flight, and for going out of his way to enable it.  I owe him a
whole lot more than just a reload.

Cheers,
 - Ken

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Sun Feb 21 19:59:11 2010
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:59:11 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] BALLS report
In-Reply-To: <C7A6CE0C.1B72%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>
References: <C7A6CE0C.1B72%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>
Message-ID: <009a01cab373$699035b0$3cb0a110$@net>

Red,

In other words, the motor builder did their job, said "my part was
successful", and walked away after motor burnout.  Unfortunately, the person
in charge of construction and electronics had to wait a bit longer to find
out if they had been successful.  They weren't.

Marty - Been there, done that, unfortunately more than once

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:48 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] BALLS report

For those of you who were not at BALLS and for those of you who were, if you
have all gotten your video and your latest magazine I need to make a
correction.

My rocket, DID indeed GO UP! And it was lovely... BUT it did not get
recovered.  It SMASHED into the playa with great force, leaving quite a big
HOLE!  Even the battery was unrecognizable.

It was compressed and smashed so hard that even to this day I have had to
pay someone else to try to cut the casing away from the rocket...

So I would like the glory of saying it was a great Flight all around.. The
truth is that rocket, is no more. :(

Cheers!

Red
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From dmrandall at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 19:38:45 2010
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:38:45 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] The Neubish Chronicles: Ch. 1 - Tail Cones
In-Reply-To: <78CAC59B-58D7-4138-B1B1-F6ADC158917C@comcast.net>
References: <78CAC59B-58D7-4138-B1B1-F6ADC158917C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6bc920e41002211938r3e6e9efejccd12caf5e4120fb@mail.gmail.com>

Bob,

I bought the Giant Leap "Vertical Assault" kit.  It comes with a
tailcone retainer.  That one is fixed in place and glued to the motor
tube and body tube.  There is a snap ring that holds the motor in
place.  Simple, easy and works every time.

If you look at: https://blastzone.com/aeropack/product.asp?productid=33

There is a small retainer that is glued to the motor tube, then the
tailcone threads onto that.  IMO, Aeropack is the greatest for
retention, I love them.  I'm sure that the installation of the
tailcone requires pretty exact locations for your motor tube, aft
centering ring to fit snug all around. Get out your ruler, that's all.
I'd say go for it if you're looking for tailcone + retention.

Don't worry so much about the "tolerance" for the aeropack retainers.
They're designed so you screw it together and you're not "clamping
down" on the motor.  They snug up just perfectly. If you want, I can
bring one to the next WAC meeting and show you.  Sometimes in-hand
visuals are the best teacher.  For that matter, I can bring the
Vertical Assault too if you like.

One other point to consider with respect to fin "protection" and the
tailcone.  Assume your rocket is coming down at an angle to the
ground.  They tend to rock back and forth through the air as they
drift down, so the chances of the rocket landing perfectly vertical
are small.  So, the tailcone will absorb the brunt of the impact, and
then the rocket will tip over and hit one or more fins on the ground.
So, a fin designed like the Competitor 4
http://www.wildmanrocketry.com/HTML/Kits/Perf-Rocketry/Competitor4-FG.htm
is much less likely to get damaged as the rocket tips over as a fin
design like the Gizmo has
(http://www.wildmanrocketry.com/HTML/Kits/Perf-Rocketry/Gizmo5-FG.htm).
 Not saying the Gizmo's fins will always break, just saying that the
fin design is more susceptible to damage than the competitor's fin
design.



On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Bob Jimerson <rwjcom at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> My first set of questions involves tail cones.
>
> I want to use some sort of a tail cone on this rocket to help protect the
> fins during landing. I am thinking that this supports the overall objective
> of durability for the rocket. ?I am leaning toward the Aero Pack version,
> but the new Ogive profile from Giant Leap may get the nod. ?For lack of
> experience or understanding I am leaning against the built-in transition.
>
> Thoughts and ponderments:
>
> Tail cones - Use a tail cone motor mount or build in a transition section?
> Motor mount adaptor seems easier - no slotting for fins, but necessarily
> moves the CP forward compared to a transition that is slotted for fins and
> allow fins to be closer to the tail.
> Motor mount tail cone seems like it could be fussy as far as installation
> and positioning of motor mount.
> Unless the transition is left unslotted and the fins are left in the body
> tube, the same issues of moving the CP forward exists with a transition
> piece. ?The transitions also seem to have 4" shoulders which would
> complicate fabrication of the fin section.
> I have not found any drawings of available tail cone retailer adaptors so I
> have to guess that there is little (if any) shoulder where the wide end of
> the cone meets the body tube.
> I am also assuming that the tail cone is threaded and becomes the retaining
> nut that tightens down against the rear of the motor.
> If both of the above are true, and that the most important function of the
> motor retainer is to retain the motor, then it seems like there is a pretty
> narrow range of tolerance during construction.
> If the motor tube is just a little too short, then the cone will bottom out
> on the body tube rather than on the motor casing leaving the motor loose.
> If the motor tube is just a little too long, then a gap will be left between
> the tail cone and the body tube resulting in embarrassment and instability
> as the center of confidence moves lower and is overwhelmed by the twin
> perturbing influences of public humiliation and unmet personal high
> standards.
>
> Questions:
>
>
> Does anyone have a URL for drawings of the Aero Pack or Giant Leap Cones?
> I'd like to "see" them before finalizing my plans.
> How fussy is the installation of these tail cone adaptors? ?What kind of
> tolerance do you have in positioning the motor tube out the back of the
> rocket?
> General thoughts, advise, warnings, etc on the use of tail cone motor
> retainers vs building the tail cone into the rocket and using a more
> conventional retainer?
>
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 20:05:31 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:05:31 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
References: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <718E2B9C1E7E468189AE24BDFB7566D3@LaptopKrausert>

Ken,
You get the first official cert post on the site for 2010:
http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=1848

Your launch report is posted:
http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=2016

Ticker updated as well as calendar page. 

Nice launch event. Congrats on L1!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Tsai" <k2tsai at gmail.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:23 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap


> What a stunning day for a February!
> 
> We got started right around noon, and the first flight was roughly 12:30.
> 
> Dave Randall was there and brought a friend. Dave brought his Patriot
> out again, and also had his Excel Plus Plus.  The Patriot is just
> amazingly rugged. It just keeps going and going.  The Excel was
> unfortunately grounded today for extenuating circumstances - more on
> that in a bit.
> 
> Dave Walp and Ian showed.  They brought their usual suspects: Mozzie,
> Blackhawk, Cheetah - Another group of amazing flyers that just keep
> coming back for more.  They brought more rockets in the box, but these
> are the staples that beg to fly.
> 
> Alex and I brought along Alex's friend Isaac.  Isaac brought his Star
> Dart - a ~1996 (I think) vintage small Estes kit.  We brought a box of
> stuff, and flew a ton - No Idea (a weird tube/fin combination that we
> had no idea what to name), an upscale Estes Neon, Madcow's fiberglass
> Arcas, Cheetah, an Art Applewhite Scimitar, the TARDIS (Doctor Who)
> from Squirrel Works, and a vintage Estes Rigel-3.
> 
> Brad showed up with his Initiator, and had a fantastic flight on a G.
> 
> There were some other rocketeers on the field enjoying the brilliant
> Sunday, as well as the usual contingent of R/C plane flyers.
> 
> Isaac started the day with his Star Dart showing us the wind - none at
> all.  Some gusts to the southeast, but nothing too worrisome.
> 
> Alex followed with "No Idea" on an D12-5.  No Idea is a scratch build,
> ~16" tall using BT56 tubing for the main.  Yeah, it really jumps on
> 24mm engines.  Fortunately, the large ring/fin combinations means
> pretty hefty drag, so it doesn't go out of sight.
> 
> Dave Randall put his Patriot up on an AT D reload for the first
> composite flight of the day.  Like I said, that Patriot just goes, and
> comes back for more.
> 
> After that, things get a little hazy for me.  Dave Randall and I had
> exchanged emails earlier regarding L1 Cert flights at 60 Acres.  With
> the new Class 1 definitions, it's possible.  When we arrived at the
> field today, Dave's first words were "Hi, Ken.  You ready for that
> cert flight?"
> 
> I still haven't received my NAR number back from HQ, so I didn't come
> prepared to make an attempt.  That didn't faze Dave at all.  He
> promptly offered up the CTI 4g H skidmark that he had brought for the
> Excel.  Just earlier this week, I had finished reinforcing the fillets
> on the Arcas using chopped glass and West Systems epoxy.  Clearly
> serendipity was with me today!  So with a little trepidation, I
> accepted Dave's offer, and spent the next 30 minutes agonizing over my
> options for the Arcas. 24, 30, or 36" chutes?  7 or 9 second delay?
> Attach the quicklink to the nose bolt, or tie a loop in the kevlar
> lower down??  There may have been other launches while I was prepping
> - I really couldn't tell you.  Blow the whistle, count it down, and
> what a roar those CTI motors make.  Gorgeous arcing flight to maybe
> 1500' with recovery 2' from the fence in the northwest corner.  Looked
> good to me, and when I brought it back, Dave confirmed the flight.
> Time to get out the credit card - lots of fun engines are gonna be on
> the way.
> 
> I know I'm shorting several people here, but after the L1 flight, the
> rest of the afternoon is just a haze.  Highlights for me include:
> - Cheetah drag race with Dave and Ian.  We ended up in a tree
> (recoverable), they ended up on the next field over.  Maybe the F
> engines weren't the best of choices.
> 
> - Mean Machine on an AT reload.  Something about a 6' tall rocket
> screaming away.
> 
> - Brad's Initiator, on a G engine. Takes some guts to fly something
> that high at 60 Acres.
> 
> - Applewhite 29mm Scimitar (saucer) on an AT G76G.  Didn't go nearly
> as high as Brad's Initiator.
> 
> - About 15 flights of an Estes #2 Skywriter.  A family was out
> documenting a school project that involved timing flights using
> various engine configs.
> 
> Once more, my eternal thanks to Dave Randall for being witness to my
> L1 flight, and for going out of his way to enable it.  I owe him a
> whole lot more than just a reload.
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ken
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From dmrandall at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 20:10:06 2010
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:10:06 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
In-Reply-To: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6bc920e41002212010i743a85cbmb964efd92ccf32e@mail.gmail.com>

Ken,

Congrats for your L1 !!  I was happy to witness for you and you did a
great job with all the requirements.  I am looking forward to more of
your scratch built designs with a bit more oomph now than just B and C
motors!

A few minor notes on some flights:

My Estes Patriot went up on a D15-7 first for a nice flight up to
~1,000'.  I really wanted to fly the altimeter there, so I loaded up
the Patriot's payload bay with my G-Wiz HCX and a 9V and reloaded the
24/40 motor with an F24 for more fun!   HCX reported 1,542'.    I
guess that was all I ended up flying today.  I really need some more
60 acres birds!

Jeff Mobley came down with a few friends and had the nice blue Mean
Machine.  It went up on a D12-7 first, and the flight seemed a bit -
well - anemic.  Sure, low and slow has its merits, but that rocket
deserves more than a D.  I had Jeff build up an AT 24/40 motor with
the F24 reload in it.  Jeff did a great job with the motor build - the
rocket kicked up off the pad with authority and the flight was perfect
with a recovery just off the field.  A snapped-off fin and a bit of a
dent in the body tube will need some R&R but I'm sure Jeff will be
back for more.

By the way, the Mean Machine has a new design from when I first built
mine 20 years ago.  It now has a plaster coupler between the upper and
lower halves that twists together and snaps into place.  Very nice -
it makes it easier to transport, and robust.  I think I'm going to
have to get one of those!

Loved the drag races we had there too.


On a different note:

1. Recovery over in 60 Acres SOUTH is "illegal" at the moment.
Redmond City Police will and have ticketed folks for trespassing while
this is posted as a "Construction Zone".  They drive by 60 Acres
approximately every 45 minutes.  The nice guys from NWEF.ORG warned us
about this.

2.  NWEF has secured a location as an electric plane flying area and
offered to share with rocket flyers.  This is located in Kirkland, and
is surrounded by houses.  It was indicated to be greater in size than
60 Acres South, but the layout is a bit odd.  I'll follow up with
them, as it appears that LWYSA may have scheduled weekend activity at
60 Acres every weekend from (IIRC - June) through October 31st.  This
might be a viable model field during the "on" season for soccer.

Dave

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Ken Tsai <k2tsai at gmail.com> wrote:
> What a stunning day for a February!
>
> We got started right around noon, and the first flight was roughly 12:30.
>
> Dave Randall was there and brought a friend. Dave brought his Patriot
> out again, and also had his Excel Plus Plus. ?The Patriot is just
> amazingly rugged. It just keeps going and going. ?The Excel was
> unfortunately grounded today for extenuating circumstances - more on
> that in a bit.
>
> Dave Walp and Ian showed. ?They brought their usual suspects: Mozzie,
> Blackhawk, Cheetah - Another group of amazing flyers that just keep
> coming back for more. ?They brought more rockets in the box, but these
> are the staples that beg to fly.
>
> Alex and I brought along Alex's friend Isaac. ?Isaac brought his Star
> Dart - a ~1996 (I think) vintage small Estes kit. ?We brought a box of
> stuff, and flew a ton - No Idea (a weird tube/fin combination that we
> had no idea what to name), an upscale Estes Neon, Madcow's fiberglass
> Arcas, Cheetah, an Art Applewhite Scimitar, the TARDIS (Doctor Who)
> from Squirrel Works, and a vintage Estes Rigel-3.
>
> Brad showed up with his Initiator, and had a fantastic flight on a G.
>
> There were some other rocketeers on the field enjoying the brilliant
> Sunday, as well as the usual contingent of R/C plane flyers.
>
> Isaac started the day with his Star Dart showing us the wind - none at
> all. ?Some gusts to the southeast, but nothing too worrisome.
>
> Alex followed with "No Idea" on an D12-5. ?No Idea is a scratch build,
> ~16" tall using BT56 tubing for the main. ?Yeah, it really jumps on
> 24mm engines. ?Fortunately, the large ring/fin combinations means
> pretty hefty drag, so it doesn't go out of sight.
>
> Dave Randall put his Patriot up on an AT D reload for the first
> composite flight of the day. ?Like I said, that Patriot just goes, and
> comes back for more.
>
> After that, things get a little hazy for me. ?Dave Randall and I had
> exchanged emails earlier regarding L1 Cert flights at 60 Acres. ?With
> the new Class 1 definitions, it's possible. ?When we arrived at the
> field today, Dave's first words were "Hi, Ken. ?You ready for that
> cert flight?"
>
> I still haven't received my NAR number back from HQ, so I didn't come
> prepared to make an attempt. ?That didn't faze Dave at all. ?He
> promptly offered up the CTI 4g H skidmark that he had brought for the
> Excel. ?Just earlier this week, I had finished reinforcing the fillets
> on the Arcas using chopped glass and West Systems epoxy. ?Clearly
> serendipity was with me today! ?So with a little trepidation, I
> accepted Dave's offer, and spent the next 30 minutes agonizing over my
> options for the Arcas. 24, 30, or 36" chutes? ?7 or 9 second delay?
> Attach the quicklink to the nose bolt, or tie a loop in the kevlar
> lower down?? ?There may have been other launches while I was prepping
> - I really couldn't tell you. ?Blow the whistle, count it down, and
> what a roar those CTI motors make. ?Gorgeous arcing flight to maybe
> 1500' with recovery 2' from the fence in the northwest corner. ?Looked
> good to me, and when I brought it back, Dave confirmed the flight.
> Time to get out the credit card - lots of fun engines are gonna be on
> the way.
>
> I know I'm shorting several people here, but after the L1 flight, the
> rest of the afternoon is just a haze. ?Highlights for me include:
> ?- Cheetah drag race with Dave and Ian. ?We ended up in a tree
> (recoverable), they ended up on the next field over. ?Maybe the F
> engines weren't the best of choices.
>
> ?- Mean Machine on an AT reload. ?Something about a 6' tall rocket
> screaming away.
>
> ?- Brad's Initiator, on a G engine. Takes some guts to fly something
> that high at 60 Acres.
>
> ?- Applewhite 29mm Scimitar (saucer) on an AT G76G. ?Didn't go nearly
> as high as Brad's Initiator.
>
> ?- About 15 flights of an Estes #2 Skywriter. ?A family was out
> documenting a school project that involved timing flights using
> various engine configs.
>
> Once more, my eternal thanks to Dave Randall for being witness to my
> L1 flight, and for going out of his way to enable it. ?I owe him a
> whole lot more than just a reload.
>
> Cheers,
> ?- Ken
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From robert.killen at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 20:18:14 2010
From: robert.killen at yahoo.com (Robert Killen)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:18:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <4B81F632.3000803@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <723293.5726.qm@web45308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Fantastic replies, guys. ?Thanks!
Now, I can imagine the forces at work in Steve's description as existing in atmosphere. ?I can also imagine that they might happen at any given speed. ?But the fact that they happen?precisely?at Mach 1 is likely more than coincidence. ?So, adding Mr. Braibish's explanation of the energy force of sound seems to fill it out well.
If that works for everyone, I'm satisfied. ?If we were in a classroom I'd have an apple for all of you.
Thanks again!?? Robert
Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270?


--- On Sun, 2/21/10, Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net> wrote:

From: Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
To: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 7:12 PM

In a very rough sense, "air" is not always "air".
The shock wave at the mach transition acts a lot like
a phase change -- like from gas to liquid.? Think of
your rocket plowing through air, then hitting water.
The supersonic transition isn't quite that dramatic
(good thing!) but it's also highly turbulent in the
area near the airframe.? In effect, the shock wave
(the "thick air") grabs things like fins, body tube
transitions, and even slight uneveness in the finish
and hangs on to them while the rocket continues forwards.
The result is often a rocket with fewer fins than it
had at launch.

Once you're well past mach 1, a stable shock wave forms
ahead of the rocket.? The rocket is then traveling along
with a surrounding bubble of air moving at almost the
same speed.? It still takes a lot of energy to keep moving
at that speed (moving the shock wave forward), but there's
much less of the "tearing" and "twisting" forces that
can damage your airframe.

Oh, and the aerodynamics of your fins are quite different
at supersonic speeds than below mach 1.? I know that's a
significant issue for planes and rockets that are steered
by control surfaces on the wings/fins; I don't know how
much of an issue that is for fixed-fin straight-line
guidance.

As I say, this is a rough approximation of what's
actually happening, but it's a convenient way to think
about it.? Perhaps one of the others on the list with
some real aeronautics background can give you a better
explanation.

-Steve Tarr


Robert Killen wrote:
> Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread raised a question for me.? Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this is purely curiosity on my part.
> Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach?? Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
> Cheers!???Robert
> 
> Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270 
> 
> 
>? ? ???_______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>???




      

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 20:26:59 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:26:59 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
References: <723293.5726.qm@web45308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1FBDF809955B433CB18EA27695C8CAF0@LaptopKrausert>

And as many have told me... Either don't get close or get by it quickly. But 
try to avoid slow transitions or just hovering in the zone. Especially if 
that's my rocket. ;-) Lesson learned...

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
To: <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?


Fantastic replies, guys. Thanks!
Now, I can imagine the forces at work in Steve's description as existing in 
atmosphere. I can also imagine that they might happen at any given speed. 
But the fact that they happen precisely at Mach 1 is likely more than 
coincidence. So, adding Mr. Braibish's explanation of the energy force of 
sound seems to fill it out well.
If that works for everyone, I'm satisfied. If we were in a classroom I'd 
have an apple for all of you.
Thanks again! Robert
Robert KillenBranding 
Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270


--- On Sun, 2/21/10, Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net> wrote:

From: Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
To: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 7:12 PM

In a very rough sense, "air" is not always "air".
The shock wave at the mach transition acts a lot like
a phase change -- like from gas to liquid. Think of
your rocket plowing through air, then hitting water.
The supersonic transition isn't quite that dramatic
(good thing!) but it's also highly turbulent in the
area near the airframe. In effect, the shock wave
(the "thick air") grabs things like fins, body tube
transitions, and even slight uneveness in the finish
and hangs on to them while the rocket continues forwards.
The result is often a rocket with fewer fins than it
had at launch.

Once you're well past mach 1, a stable shock wave forms
ahead of the rocket. The rocket is then traveling along
with a surrounding bubble of air moving at almost the
same speed. It still takes a lot of energy to keep moving
at that speed (moving the shock wave forward), but there's
much less of the "tearing" and "twisting" forces that
can damage your airframe.

Oh, and the aerodynamics of your fins are quite different
at supersonic speeds than below mach 1. I know that's a
significant issue for planes and rockets that are steered
by control surfaces on the wings/fins; I don't know how
much of an issue that is for fixed-fin straight-line
guidance.

As I say, this is a rough approximation of what's
actually happening, but it's a convenient way to think
about it. Perhaps one of the others on the list with
some real aeronautics background can give you a better
explanation.

-Steve Tarr


Robert Killen wrote:
> Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread 
> raised a question for me. Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this 
> is purely curiosity on my part.
> Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around 
> Mach? Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
> Cheers! Robert
>
> Robert KillenBranding 
> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>





_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 20:43:55 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:43:55 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
Message-ID: <15ddc.423a4dfa.38b3658b@aol.com>

I agree.  I like to get through mach transition as quickly as  possible. :) 
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/21/2010 8:27:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

And as  many have told me... Either don't get close or get by it quickly. 
But 
try  to avoid slow transitions or just hovering in the zone. Especially if  
that's my rocket. ;-) Lesson  learned...

Cheers,
Robert


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 20:49:49 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:49:49 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Very Special OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda March 4th,
	2010
Message-ID: <FD23F774D0F547AE80BF203DA76A3181@LaptopKrausert>

The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on March 4th, 2010. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. 

Where: Giovanni's
12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005

Agenda:
7:30 : Welcome New Members +
7:30 : Annoucements
7:35 : Guest Speaker, Walter Jones (Carbon Fiber)
[Details Below]


I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday March 4th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. 

Cheers,
Robert
OregonRocketry President

What's important to Rocketeers ? A mind numbing, bone-rattling roar as the sky is ripped apart, followed by the chiropractic snap of one's neck?

Or is it learning how to build for the above-mentioned effect?

How would you like a chance to pick the brain of one of the worlds leading experts on 'state of the art' use of Carbon Fiber? Say someone who "provided carbon fiber materials, design and manufacturing process techniques" to the Rutan brothers, Burt and Dick.  You remember 1986?  Dick Rutan and Jeanna Yeager flew the first non-stop, non-refueled Voyager aircraft around the world. Or how about the guy who "designed and produced sub-scale fiber glass/nylon/phenolic prepeg, bias tape wrapped, autoclave cured re-entry nose cones for 25,000 mph hypersonic wind tunnel testing. This test proved Gruntfest's theory of ablative cooling, enabling both space re-entry and high temperature rocket nozzles."



Mark your calendar for the March 4th OROC meeting at Giovanni's. Because our very special guest speaker will be: Walter Jones.

Walter holds 5 patents. Plus several inventions; filament/tape wound pressure vessels, carbon fiber re-entry heat shields, and rocket nozzles. 3-D woven double wall structures, inflatable buildings, boats, and surfboards. In addition carbon composite bicycle wheels and prosthetic feet/legs.

I am certain that after this meeting your building techniques will be so improved as to allow you to 'push the envelope' with speeds and altitude, like you've never accomplished before.

Be there March 4th, 2010 at Giovanni's, Beaverton 7:30pm.

From robert.killen at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 20:55:16 2010
From: robert.killen at yahoo.com (Robert Killen)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:55:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <1FBDF809955B433CB18EA27695C8CAF0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <479302.21055.qm@web45308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Although they don't specifically describe effects on rockets, I find the the discussions of "Critical Mach number" (?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mach_number?), "Transonic" (?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transonic?)?and "Mach Tuck" (?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_tuck?)?to be very enlightening. ?Especially the image that's on each of these pages describing the shock wave that forms on the wing during the Mach transition. ?I can easily imagine the reason for R. Krausert's "get through Mach as fast as possible" warning.
Cheers!
?? Robert

Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270?


--- On Sun, 2/21/10, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
To: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>, stevet19759 at comcast.net
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:26 PM

And as many have told me... Either don't get close or get by it quickly. But try to avoid slow transitions or just hovering in the zone. Especially if that's my rocket. ;-) Lesson learned...

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
To: <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?


Fantastic replies, guys. Thanks!
Now, I can imagine the forces at work in Steve's description as existing in atmosphere. I can also imagine that they might happen at any given speed. But the fact that they happen precisely at Mach 1 is likely more than coincidence. So, adding Mr. Braibish's explanation of the energy force of sound seems to fill it out well.
If that works for everyone, I'm satisfied. If we were in a classroom I'd have an apple for all of you.
Thanks again! Robert
Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270


--- On Sun, 2/21/10, Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net> wrote:

From: Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?? ...and why?
To: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 7:12 PM

In a very rough sense, "air" is not always "air".
The shock wave at the mach transition acts a lot like
a phase change -- like from gas to liquid. Think of
your rocket plowing through air, then hitting water.
The supersonic transition isn't quite that dramatic
(good thing!) but it's also highly turbulent in the
area near the airframe. In effect, the shock wave
(the "thick air") grabs things like fins, body tube
transitions, and even slight uneveness in the finish
and hangs on to them while the rocket continues forwards.
The result is often a rocket with fewer fins than it
had at launch.

Once you're well past mach 1, a stable shock wave forms
ahead of the rocket. The rocket is then traveling along
with a surrounding bubble of air moving at almost the
same speed. It still takes a lot of energy to keep moving
at that speed (moving the shock wave forward), but there's
much less of the "tearing" and "twisting" forces that
can damage your airframe.

Oh, and the aerodynamics of your fins are quite different
at supersonic speeds than below mach 1. I know that's a
significant issue for planes and rockets that are steered
by control surfaces on the wings/fins; I don't know how
much of an issue that is for fixed-fin straight-line
guidance.

As I say, this is a rough approximation of what's
actually happening, but it's a convenient way to think
about it. Perhaps one of the others on the list with
some real aeronautics background can give you a better
explanation.

-Steve Tarr


Robert Killen wrote:
> Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread raised a question for me. Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this is purely curiosity on my part.
> Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach? Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
> Cheers! Robert
> 
> Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 





_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




      

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Feb 21 21:09:13 2010
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:09:13 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] BALLS report
In-Reply-To: <009a01cab373$699035b0$3cb0a110$@net>
References: <C7A6CE0C.1B72%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>
	<009a01cab373$699035b0$3cb0a110$@net>
Message-ID: <D32BAB8CCB674644A11E6F6C2AE6E738015BD5@BL2PRD0103MB054.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Yes as the motor building I DID!   Unfortunately it was my bad advice on the ejection charge that caused the lack of deployment.  If you can believe it I suggested a smaller charge than she was going to use - yes those that know my "blowitoutorblowitup" methods are likely shocked.

Brad 'very embarrassed and unhappy' wright

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Marty Weiser
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:59 PM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BALLS report

Red,

In other words, the motor builder did their job, said "my part was successful", and walked away after motor burnout.  Unfortunately, the person in charge of construction and electronics had to wait a bit longer to find out if they had been successful.  They weren't.

Marty - Been there, done that, unfortunately more than once

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:48 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] BALLS report

For those of you who were not at BALLS and for those of you who were, if you have all gotten your video and your latest magazine I need to make a correction.

My rocket, DID indeed GO UP! And it was lovely... BUT it did not get recovered.  It SMASHED into the playa with great force, leaving quite a big HOLE!  Even the battery was unrecognizable.

It was compressed and smashed so hard that even to this day I have had to pay someone else to try to cut the casing away from the rocket...

So I would like the glory of saying it was a great Flight all around.. The truth is that rocket, is no more. :(

Cheers!

Red
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From greg at bigredbee.com  Sun Feb 21 21:16:23 2010
From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:16:23 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [ADV] Higher Power BeeLine Transmitter
Message-ID: <cb724d311002212116x7839d8fbm3fcd27c5280c4925@mail.gmail.com>

As long as we're talking about "hardware", I've got a higher power version
of the BeeLine Transmitter ready to ship.

The new transmitter is identical to the original, but has a total output
power of 100mw compared to 16mw.

Price is $89 (vs $59) for the transmitter.  Battery, programming interface
and optional SMA antenna are priced the same as for the original.

Here's a picture of the bare board.

http://bigredbee.com/images/blmptx.jpg

Make sure to order the "MP" version

-- Greg

From vern_knowles at att.net  Sun Feb 21 22:22:35 2010
From: vern_knowles at att.net (Vern Knowles)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:22:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] The Neubish Chronicles: Ch. 1 - Tail Cones
In-Reply-To: <78CAC59B-58D7-4138-B1B1-F6ADC158917C@comcast.net>
References: <78CAC59B-58D7-4138-B1B1-F6ADC158917C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002a01cab387$6cdf97b0$0400a8c0@MainPC>

 
Hi Bob,

You wrote:
> Does anyone have a URL for drawings of the Aero Pack or Giant Leap  
> Cones?

I have a few photos on my web site showing the installation of an Aero Pack tail cone.  It was for
a 4" body tube and 54mm motor mount.  My set up is a little bit different than what you will want
to do but hopefully the page will still be helpful.   There is also a drawing on that page that
shows a cross section view of the tail cone assembly.  You should be able to see how it works from
that.  

Link to tail cone installation page:
http://www.vernk.com/Construction/ColdfireMotorAdapter.htm

Link to cross section view:
http://www.vernk.com/Documents/Coldfire/DrawingImages/ColdFireDesignDrawings_75ppi_RevB5-11.gif


Vern Knowles
www.vernk.com




> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob Jimerson
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:20 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] The Neubish Chronicles: Ch. 1 - Tail Cones
> 
> 
> My first set of questions involves tail cones.
> 
> I want to use some sort of a tail cone on this rocket to help 
> protect  
> the fins during landing. I am thinking that this supports the 
> overall  
> objective of durability for the rocket.  I am leaning toward 
> the Aero  
> Pack version, but the new Ogive profile from Giant Leap may get the  
> nod.  For lack of experience or understanding I am leaning 
> against the  
> built-in transition.
> 
> Thoughts and ponderments:
> 
> Tail cones - Use a tail cone motor mount or build in a transition  
> section?
> Motor mount adaptor seems easier - no slotting for fins, but  
> necessarily moves the CP forward compared to a transition that is  
> slotted for fins and allow fins to be closer to the tail.
> Motor mount tail cone seems like it could be fussy as far as  
> installation and positioning of motor mount.
> Unless the transition is left unslotted and the fins are left in the  
> body tube, the same issues of moving the CP forward exists with a  
> transition piece.  The transitions also seem to have 4" shoulders  
> which would complicate fabrication of the fin section.
> I have not found any drawings of available tail cone retailer 
> adaptors  
> so I have to guess that there is little (if any) shoulder where the  
> wide end of the cone meets the body tube.
> I am also assuming that the tail cone is threaded and becomes the  
> retaining nut that tightens down against the rear of the motor.
> If both of the above are true, and that the most important 
> function of  
> the motor retainer is to retain the motor, then it seems like 
> there is  
> a pretty narrow range of tolerance during construction.
> If the motor tube is just a little too short, then the cone will  
> bottom out on the body tube rather than on the motor casing leaving  
> the motor loose.
> If the motor tube is just a little too long, then a gap will be left  
> between the tail cone and the body tube resulting in 
> embarrassment and  
> instability as the center of confidence moves lower and is 
> overwhelmed  
> by the twin perturbing influences of public humiliation and unmet  
> personal high standards.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 	
> Does anyone have a URL for drawings of the Aero Pack or Giant Leap  
> Cones? I'd like to "see" them before finalizing my plans.
> How fussy is the installation of these tail cone adaptors?  
> What kind  
> of tolerance do you have in positioning the motor tube out 
> the back of  
> the rocket?
> General thoughts, advise, warnings, etc on the use of tail 
> cone motor  
> retainers vs building the tail cone into the rocket and using a more  
> conventional retainer?
> 
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   


From tomjerry1 at dishmail.net  Sun Feb 21 22:58:21 2010
From: tomjerry1 at dishmail.net (Roy Jenkins)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:58:21 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
References: <15ddc.423a4dfa.38b3658b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <784AC4E59EE34E86BFC010DEA5B8F3ED@roy4700>

Which Mach # would that be??

 Roy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mfreptiles at aol.com 
  To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?


  I agree.  I like to get through mach transition as quickly as  possible. :) 
   
  Mike F.
   
   
  In a message dated 2/21/2010 8:27:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
  lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

  And as  many have told me... Either don't get close or get by it quickly. 
  But 
  try  to avoid slow transitions or just hovering in the zone. Especially if  
  that's my rocket. ;-) Lesson  learned...

  Cheers,
  Robert

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From joebevier at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 23:14:41 2010
From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:14:41 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <479302.21055.qm@web45308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <1FBDF809955B433CB18EA27695C8CAF0@LaptopKrausert>
	<479302.21055.qm@web45308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45717541002212314i7fa9c6b9wc8c571f3523b72fc@mail.gmail.com>

Robert,

Read those wikis carefully.  Mach is a not a singular wall a rocket hits.
The entire transonic zone strikes fear into the hearts of experienced
aerodynamicists! At as little as .8 mach the airflow over some but not all
areas starts to become supersonic. The resulting mayhem from high and low
pressure zones changing, pressure waves dancing around and flow transition
(laminar to turbulent) can happen anywhere from .85 to 1.2 mach.  These
forces want to eat your rocket!

Amateurishly aerodynamic,
Joe ;-)

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Although they don't specifically describe effects on rockets, I find the
> the discussions of "Critical Mach number" (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mach_number ), "Transonic" (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transonic ) and "Mach Tuck" (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_tuck ) to be very enlightening.
>  Especially the image that's on each of these pages describing the shock
> wave that forms on the wing during the Mach transition.  I can easily
> imagine the reason for R. Krausert's "get through Mach as fast as possible"
> warning.
> Cheers!
>    Robert
>
> Robert KillenBranding
> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
> To: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>, stevet19759 at comcast.net
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:26 PM
>
> And as many have told me... Either don't get close or get by it quickly.
> But try to avoid slow transitions or just hovering in the zone. Especially
> if that's my rocket. ;-) Lesson learned...
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Killen" <
> robert.killen at yahoo.com>
> To: <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>
>
> Fantastic replies, guys. Thanks!
> Now, I can imagine the forces at work in Steve's description as existing in
> atmosphere. I can also imagine that they might happen at any given speed.
> But the fact that they happen precisely at Mach 1 is likely more than
> coincidence. So, adding Mr. Braibish's explanation of the energy force of
> sound seems to fill it out well.
> If that works for everyone, I'm satisfied. If we were in a classroom I'd
> have an apple for all of you.
> Thanks again! Robert
> Robert KillenBranding
> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>
>
> --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> From: Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
> To: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 7:12 PM
>
> In a very rough sense, "air" is not always "air".
> The shock wave at the mach transition acts a lot like
> a phase change -- like from gas to liquid. Think of
> your rocket plowing through air, then hitting water.
> The supersonic transition isn't quite that dramatic
> (good thing!) but it's also highly turbulent in the
> area near the airframe. In effect, the shock wave
> (the "thick air") grabs things like fins, body tube
> transitions, and even slight uneveness in the finish
> and hangs on to them while the rocket continues forwards.
> The result is often a rocket with fewer fins than it
> had at launch.
>
> Once you're well past mach 1, a stable shock wave forms
> ahead of the rocket. The rocket is then traveling along
> with a surrounding bubble of air moving at almost the
> same speed. It still takes a lot of energy to keep moving
> at that speed (moving the shock wave forward), but there's
> much less of the "tearing" and "twisting" forces that
> can damage your airframe.
>
> Oh, and the aerodynamics of your fins are quite different
> at supersonic speeds than below mach 1. I know that's a
> significant issue for planes and rockets that are steered
> by control surfaces on the wings/fins; I don't know how
> much of an issue that is for fixed-fin straight-line
> guidance.
>
> As I say, this is a rough approximation of what's
> actually happening, but it's a convenient way to think
> about it. Perhaps one of the others on the list with
> some real aeronautics background can give you a better
> explanation.
>
> -Steve Tarr
>
>
> Robert Killen wrote:
> > Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another
> thread raised a question for me. Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so
> this is purely curiosity on my part.
> > Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around
> Mach? Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
> > Cheers! Robert
> >
> > Robert KillenBranding
> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From absworld at cet.com  Mon Feb 22 06:35:01 2010
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:35:01 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <45717541002212314i7fa9c6b9wc8c571f3523b72fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1FBDF809955B433CB18EA27695C8CAF0@LaptopKrausert>	<479302.21055.qm@web45308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<45717541002212314i7fa9c6b9wc8c571f3523b72fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004101cab3cc$38eda880$aac8f980$@com>

While exceeding Mach 1 does represent a significant threshold, it's not all
clear sailing beyond that as dynamic pressure continues to increase (in
lower atmosphere) along with higher velocities.

I found my latest threshold at 2300 fps (Mach 2+) when my fins decided
they'd had enough.

Bob Yanecek

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Joe Bevier
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:15 PM
To: Robert Killen
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?

Robert,

Read those wikis carefully.  Mach is a not a singular wall a rocket hits.
The entire transonic zone strikes fear into the hearts of experienced
aerodynamicists! At as little as .8 mach the airflow over some but not all
areas starts to become supersonic. The resulting mayhem from high and low
pressure zones changing, pressure waves dancing around and flow transition
(laminar to turbulent) can happen anywhere from .85 to 1.2 mach.  These
forces want to eat your rocket!

Amateurishly aerodynamic,
Joe ;-)

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Robert Killen
<robert.killen at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Although they don't specifically describe effects on rockets, I find the
> the discussions of "Critical Mach number" (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mach_number ), "Transonic" (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transonic ) and "Mach Tuck" (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_tuck ) to be very enlightening.
>  Especially the image that's on each of these pages describing the shock
> wave that forms on the wing during the Mach transition.  I can easily
> imagine the reason for R. Krausert's "get through Mach as fast as
possible"
> warning.
> Cheers!
>    Robert
>
> Robert KillenBranding
>
Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com5
41.280.5270
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
> To: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>, stevet19759 at comcast.net
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 8:26 PM
>
> And as many have told me... Either don't get close or get by it quickly.
> But try to avoid slow transitions or just hovering in the zone. Especially
> if that's my rocket. ;-) Lesson learned...
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Killen" <
> robert.killen at yahoo.com>
> To: <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>
>
> Fantastic replies, guys. Thanks!
> Now, I can imagine the forces at work in Steve's description as existing
in
> atmosphere. I can also imagine that they might happen at any given speed.
> But the fact that they happen precisely at Mach 1 is likely more than
> coincidence. So, adding Mr. Braibish's explanation of the energy force of
> sound seems to fill it out well.
> If that works for everyone, I'm satisfied. If we were in a classroom I'd
> have an apple for all of you.
> Thanks again! Robert
> Robert KillenBranding
>
Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com5
41.280.5270
>
>
> --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> From: Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
> To: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 7:12 PM
>
> In a very rough sense, "air" is not always "air".
> The shock wave at the mach transition acts a lot like
> a phase change -- like from gas to liquid. Think of
> your rocket plowing through air, then hitting water.
> The supersonic transition isn't quite that dramatic
> (good thing!) but it's also highly turbulent in the
> area near the airframe. In effect, the shock wave
> (the "thick air") grabs things like fins, body tube
> transitions, and even slight uneveness in the finish
> and hangs on to them while the rocket continues forwards.
> The result is often a rocket with fewer fins than it
> had at launch.
>
> Once you're well past mach 1, a stable shock wave forms
> ahead of the rocket. The rocket is then traveling along
> with a surrounding bubble of air moving at almost the
> same speed. It still takes a lot of energy to keep moving
> at that speed (moving the shock wave forward), but there's
> much less of the "tearing" and "twisting" forces that
> can damage your airframe.
>
> Oh, and the aerodynamics of your fins are quite different
> at supersonic speeds than below mach 1. I know that's a
> significant issue for planes and rockets that are steered
> by control surfaces on the wings/fins; I don't know how
> much of an issue that is for fixed-fin straight-line
> guidance.
>
> As I say, this is a rough approximation of what's
> actually happening, but it's a convenient way to think
> about it. Perhaps one of the others on the list with
> some real aeronautics background can give you a better
> explanation.
>
> -Steve Tarr
>
>
> Robert Killen wrote:
> > Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another
> thread raised a question for me. Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now
so
> this is purely curiosity on my part.
> > Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around
> Mach? Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
> > Cheers! Robert
> >
> > Robert KillenBranding
>
Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com5
41.280.5270
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 07:43:19 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:43:19 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions
In-Reply-To: <004a01cab32a$47883e70$d698bb50$@com>
References: <38A2D0E1-8A16-4D9E-8666-4C937160D8D0@comcast.net>
	<004a01cab32a$47883e70$d698bb50$@com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002220743i2d5f3783p9f21a37b34cc3cb3@mail.gmail.com>

Why stop with a 75mm mount?  Make it minimum diameter and go for 98mm
motors...  :-)

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Fred Azinger <fred at azinger.com> wrote:

> I see a problem already ... use a 75mm motor mount! ;-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Bob Jimerson
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:00 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions
>
> All,
>
> I'm going to take advantage of what seems like a lull in activity here
> following the comprehensive discussion on how best to elevate home
> furnishings to put out some questions that I have as I work down
> through the detail levels on my first scratch built project.
>
> It will be built around 54mm motor mount, be 4" in diameter and six
> feet long.  My plan is for an all fiberglass build out of purchased
> off-the-shelf components.  The mission for this rocket is to be a
> durable learning platform that I can use to build my experience with
> various motors, electronics, deployment and recovery strategies, etc.
> I do want to build the rocket so that it will survive and thrive on
> some high impulse motors.  Several of the motors that I have sim'd
> with so far produce acceleration greater that 1000 ft/sec/sec and max
> speed near or over mach.
>
> But again, the mission here is a durable learning platform rather than
> an envelope stretcher.  As such, I am not necessarily looking for the
> right answers if this were a minimum diameter, high-impulse speed and
> altitude record attempt.  Rather I am hoping for some practical advise
> that is appropriate for a minivan of a rocket.
>
> I'll break my list up into a number of smaller posts so that each
> question can die a natural death on its own time without having to
> drag the full history of the thread around with it.
>
> The two major subject areas where I have some questions are E-bay
> design, attachment and construction, and tail cones. It looks like
> there will likely be a third post with misc stuff and simulation
> related questions.
>
> Thanks in advance to those that have help to offer, and my apologies
> for disturbing the sleep of everyone else.
>
> First Set of Q's coming soon to a list-serv near you.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Bob Jimerson
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From carl at mousetrap.com  Mon Feb 22 08:10:38 2010
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:10:38 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch 4 - Payback?
In-Reply-To: <C7A6D005.1B7A%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>
References: <4081E107-4EC8-4775-96FF-9B0A8EF2E266@comcast.net>
	<C7A6D005.1B7A%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd1002220810v3e00ec80i8c5b2956584e16f5@mail.gmail.com>

I'm with Red on this one: a keg of home brew at FITS would be awesome and I
would be more than happy to help finish it off.

Now, regarding my pants; any and all help in locating them would be much
appreciated.

 - Carl

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Angela "Red" Wright <
angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:

> Speaking for myself and the other Pirate Singers, I think that this would
> be
> SUPER!  We welcome any and all after flight activities, including, but not
> limited too, Karaoke, Booze, fire building, Pirate flag waving and of
> course, finding Carl's Pants! :)
>
> Red
>
>
>
> On 2/21/10 11:49 AM, "Bob Jimerson" <rwjcom at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > A question of a different sort for all of those that are heading to
> > FITS this year.  Would it be appropriate to offer, and would there be
> > any interest in a small keg of homemade microbrew style beer for after
> > hours activities?
> >
> > I know a guy pretty well that has dusted off his old home brewing kit
> > and is also dusting off his old home brewing skills.  He's thinking
> > along the lines of an English style bitter, or perhaps a Pale Ale but
> > is open to other ideas as well.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> > Bob
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Mon Feb 22 08:23:30 2010
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:23:30 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002220743i2d5f3783p9f21a37b34cc3cb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38A2D0E1-8A16-4D9E-8666-4C937160D8D0@comcast.net>	<004a01cab32a$47883e70$d698bb50$@com>
	<e83b26701002220743i2d5f3783p9f21a37b34cc3cb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003801cab3db$5f8f3170$1ead9450$@net>

Because keeping the fins on a min diameter project is much harder than
keeping them on when they can be mounted through the wall to the motor
mount.  Increasing the motor mount to 75 mm allows the use of the larger
diameter motor and will make the tailcone a bit stronger since the back end
will be larger in diameter.

The Aeropack retainers are very nice, but since they are threaded they are
more easily damaged beyond use than one that uses a snap ring.  A small ding
or distortion of the threaded outer section can make it difficult to insert
the inner threaded piece.  A snap ring retainer is a bit more tolerant of
such damage and the type of field repairs I manage to make.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 7:43 AM
To: Fred Azinger
Cc: Bob Jimerson; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions

Why stop with a 75mm mount?  Make it minimum diameter and go for 98mm
motors...  :-)

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Fred Azinger <fred at azinger.com> wrote:

> I see a problem already ... use a 75mm motor mount! ;-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Bob Jimerson
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:00 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Questions
>
> All,
>
> I'm going to take advantage of what seems like a lull in activity here
> following the comprehensive discussion on how best to elevate home
> furnishings to put out some questions that I have as I work down
> through the detail levels on my first scratch built project.
>
> It will be built around 54mm motor mount, be 4" in diameter and six
> feet long.  My plan is for an all fiberglass build out of purchased
> off-the-shelf components.  The mission for this rocket is to be a
> durable learning platform that I can use to build my experience with
> various motors, electronics, deployment and recovery strategies, etc.
> I do want to build the rocket so that it will survive and thrive on
> some high impulse motors.  Several of the motors that I have sim'd
> with so far produce acceleration greater that 1000 ft/sec/sec and max
> speed near or over mach.
>
> But again, the mission here is a durable learning platform rather than
> an envelope stretcher.  As such, I am not necessarily looking for the
> right answers if this were a minimum diameter, high-impulse speed and
> altitude record attempt.  Rather I am hoping for some practical advise
> that is appropriate for a minivan of a rocket.
>
> I'll break my list up into a number of smaller posts so that each
> question can die a natural death on its own time without having to
> drag the full history of the thread around with it.
>
> The two major subject areas where I have some questions are E-bay
> design, attachment and construction, and tail cones. It looks like
> there will likely be a third post with misc stuff and simulation
> related questions.
>
> Thanks in advance to those that have help to offer, and my apologies
> for disturbing the sleep of everyone else.
>
> First Set of Q's coming soon to a list-serv near you.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Bob Jimerson
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Mon Feb 22 08:39:06 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:39:06 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
Message-ID: <a558.646a99a1.38b40d2a@aol.com>

Mach 1, 2, and 3 as fast as possible.  Working on 4 and 5 if I can  figure 
out why my rockets keep ablating. :)
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/21/2010 10:58:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
tomjerry1 at dishmail.net writes:

Which Mach # would that be??
 
 Roy

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  _Mfreptiles at aol.com_ (mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com)  
To: _rockets at rocketsnw.com_ (mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com)  
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:43  PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens  at Mach? ...and why?


I agree.  I like to get through mach transition as  quickly as  possible. 
:) 

Mike  F.



From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Mon Feb 22 09:10:49 2010
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:10:49 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch 4 - Payback?
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd1002220810v3e00ec80i8c5b2956584e16f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4081E107-4EC8-4775-96FF-9B0A8EF2E266@comcast.net>	<C7A6D005.1B7A%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>
	<e068dfbd1002220810v3e00ec80i8c5b2956584e16f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004c01cab3e1$fc02dce0$f40896a0$@net>

Carl - Perhaps if you get you a pair of the Norwegian Curling team pants
they would be easier to find and perhaps even keep track of in the first
place. - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 8:11 AM
To: Bob Jimerson
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch 4 - Payback?

I'm with Red on this one: a keg of home brew at FITS would be awesome and I
would be more than happy to help finish it off.

Now, regarding my pants; any and all help in locating them would be much
appreciated.

 - Carl

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Angela "Red" Wright <
angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:

> Speaking for myself and the other Pirate Singers, I think that this would
> be
> SUPER!  We welcome any and all after flight activities, including, but not
> limited too, Karaoke, Booze, fire building, Pirate flag waving and of
> course, finding Carl's Pants! :)
>
> Red
>
>
>
> On 2/21/10 11:49 AM, "Bob Jimerson" <rwjcom at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > A question of a different sort for all of those that are heading to
> > FITS this year.  Would it be appropriate to offer, and would there be
> > any interest in a small keg of homemade microbrew style beer for after
> > hours activities?
> >
> > I know a guy pretty well that has dusted off his old home brewing kit
> > and is also dusting off his old home brewing skills.  He's thinking
> > along the lines of an English style bitter, or perhaps a Pale Ale but
> > is open to other ideas as well.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> > Bob
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From cpovercg at rocketmail.com  Mon Feb 22 09:15:09 2010
From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:15:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re:  What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <606551.75524.qm@web112907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<606551.75524.qm@web112907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <855165.30378.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

The lesser known Munch number is also a significant threshold in rocket design and construction.? The Munch number (Mu)?is a confusing variable to understand because it can represent both a time and a speed. Mu (sub t)? represents the time into a rocket flight that the builder realizes he/she forgot a critical element in a successful flight (like powering-up an altimeter or setting the Mach delay or letting the glue dry on the launch lug).? Mu (sub v) represents the speed at which the aforementioned omission, a structural error, or some other defect causes the rocket to shred and litter the sky or careen out of control to eventually impact mother earth at full thrust.? Both instances of the Munch number are identified when the rocket owner adopts a pose such as this.

Similar to the Much number, there is the Home-Alone Index? The subtle differences between the HAI and Mu are a matter of timing and age of the rocket builder.


R. Braibish




________________________________
From: Robert Braibish <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>
To: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 7:13:20 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?

I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but basically there is a dangerous zone (trans-sonic speed).? 
In a nut shell, sound is energy.? 
As an object approaches the speed of sound, the energy waves begin to "pile up" in front of the object (the object making the sound is beginning to catch up to the sounds it created).? 
This "pile up" of sound energy creates a LOT of turbulence because the drag increases?at different rates relative to the increase in speed in the trans-sonic zone.

Perhaps a conceptual analogy would be a wheel out of alignment.? At slow speeds the mis-alignment is not very noticeable, as your speed increases, the shake becomes pronounced but, at a certain yet higher speed it begins to subside again.?The causes of the shaking with a mis-aligned wheel are quite different from the shock waves for trans-sonic travel but like the vehicle, once an object has cleared Mach, the shock wave has passed and does not produce the turbulence.

R. Braibish



________________________________
From: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 6:26:36 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?

Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread raised a question for me. ?Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this is purely curiosity on my part.
Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach? ?Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
Cheers!?? Robert

Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270?



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From carl at mousetrap.com  Mon Feb 22 09:24:20 2010
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:24:20 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch 4 - Payback?
In-Reply-To: <004c01cab3e1$fc02dce0$f40896a0$@net>
References: <4081E107-4EC8-4775-96FF-9B0A8EF2E266@comcast.net>
	<C7A6D005.1B7A%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>
	<e068dfbd1002220810v3e00ec80i8c5b2956584e16f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<004c01cab3e1$fc02dce0$f40896a0$@net>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd1002220924j44941312p4c018e62696b40ff@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, good idea, Marty! Those would go great with one of my tie-dyed t-shirts!

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Marty Weiser <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>wrote:

> Carl - Perhaps if you get you a pair of the Norwegian Curling team pants
> they would be easier to find and perhaps even keep track of in the first
> place. - Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 8:11 AM
> To: Bob Jimerson
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch 4 - Payback?
>
> I'm with Red on this one: a keg of home brew at FITS would be awesome and I
> would be more than happy to help finish it off.
>
> Now, regarding my pants; any and all help in locating them would be much
> appreciated.
>
>  - Carl
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Angela "Red" Wright <
> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>
> > Speaking for myself and the other Pirate Singers, I think that this would
> > be
> > SUPER!  We welcome any and all after flight activities, including, but
> not
> > limited too, Karaoke, Booze, fire building, Pirate flag waving and of
> > course, finding Carl's Pants! :)
> >
> > Red
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/21/10 11:49 AM, "Bob Jimerson" <rwjcom at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > A question of a different sort for all of those that are heading to
> > > FITS this year.  Would it be appropriate to offer, and would there be
> > > any interest in a small keg of homemade microbrew style beer for after
> > > hours activities?
> > >
> > > I know a guy pretty well that has dusted off his old home brewing kit
> > > and is also dusting off his old home brewing skills.  He's thinking
> > > along the lines of an English style bitter, or perhaps a Pale Ale but
> > > is open to other ideas as well.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Mon Feb 22 09:29:19 2010
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:29:19 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re:  What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <855165.30378.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<606551.75524.qm@web112907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<855165.30378.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E596CBA36@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Did I get the answer right?

                 Mu(sub t)^2
OS = Mu(sub v) ---------------
                (HAI / cos^3 )



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 9:15 AM
To: Robert Braibish; Robert Killen; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?

The lesser known Munch number is also a significant threshold in rocket design and construction.? The Munch number (Mu)?is a confusing variable to understand because it can represent both a time and a speed. Mu (sub t)? represents the time into a rocket flight that the builder realizes he/she forgot a critical element in a successful flight (like powering-up an altimeter or setting the Mach delay or letting the glue dry on the launch lug).? Mu (sub v) represents the speed at which the aforementioned omission, a structural error, or some other defect causes the rocket to shred and litter the sky or careen out of control to eventually impact mother earth at full thrust.? Both instances of the Munch number are identified when the rocket owner adopts a pose such as this.

Similar to the Much number, there is the Home-Alone Index? The subtle differences between the HAI and Mu are a matter of timing and age of the rocket builder.


R. Braibish




________________________________
From: Robert Braibish <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>
To: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 7:13:20 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?

I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but basically there is a dangerous zone (trans-sonic speed).? 
In a nut shell, sound is energy.? 
As an object approaches the speed of sound, the energy waves begin to "pile up" in front of the object (the object making the sound is beginning to catch up to the sounds it created).? 
This "pile up" of sound energy creates a LOT of turbulence because the drag increases?at different rates relative to the increase in speed in the trans-sonic zone.

Perhaps a conceptual analogy would be a wheel out of alignment.? At slow speeds the mis-alignment is not very noticeable, as your speed increases, the shake becomes pronounced but, at a certain yet higher speed it begins to subside again.?The causes of the shaking with a mis-aligned wheel are quite different from the shock waves for trans-sonic travel but like the vehicle, once an object has cleared Mach, the shock wave has passed and does not produce the turbulence.

R. Braibish



________________________________
From: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 6:26:36 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?

Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread raised a question for me. ?Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this is purely curiosity on my part.
Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach? ?Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
Cheers!?? Robert

Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270?



? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From carl at mousetrap.com  Mon Feb 22 09:41:42 2010
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:41:42 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] When to use large rail buttons
Message-ID: <e068dfbd1002220941l34cb6ae9lf17dd81a0cd84811@mail.gmail.com>

I'm working on a project that is larger than anything I have done to date,
but which I would not consider terribly large. It's 5" in diameter, 96"
long, and will weight around 30 pounds on the pad, depending on the motor.
I'm pretty sure that "regular" rail buttons, those that fit a 1010 rail,
will be more than enough, but thought I should ask the group for opinions as
to when "large" rail buttons, those for a 1515 rail, are needed.

So, at what point should "large" rail buttons be used?

Thanks.

 - Carl

From Simpsonclark at aol.com  Mon Feb 22 09:45:17 2010
From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:45:17 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
Message-ID: <c9f1.405da008.38b41cad@aol.com>

Robert-
"Mach"  is the ratio of the speed of the vehicle to the speed of sound  
under the local conditions of pressure and temperature, hence "mach 1" is the  
speed of sound, "mach 2" is twice the speed of sound, etc.  The speed of  sou
nd is important because it marks the upper limit of the area where air  
behaves as a "compressible fluid", with all of the aerodynamic characteristics  
and principles we are used to working with at sub-sonic speeds, such as 
laminar  and turbulent flow characteristics, Bernoulli's principle, etc.  Above 
the  speed of sound, air behaves more like particles impacting the 
surfaces, and  forces more closely reflect Newton's 3rd principle. Aircraft, 
including  rockets, can operate in either environment, but sometimes have trouble 
remaining  stable when part of the airframe is in one environment and part is 
in  another.  Since air has to move sidewise to get out of the way of the  
aircraft, some parts may develop supersonic flow sooner than others, causing 
 drag (the highly compressed air in the shock wave causes substantial drag, 
since  it is "thicker" than normal air).  Reaction to the new source of 
drag can  throw the aircraft off-axis, which sheds the drag at that location 
but induces  it at another location, sometimes causing a self-amplifying 
oscillation which  catastrophically destabilizes the vehicle. Careful design and 
testing can  control these transitions.  In fact, a typical airliner wing 
has a shock  wave form on the top of the wing as the air goes supersonic 
briefly.  This  usually starts at an aircraft speed of about mach .8, since the 
air going over  the top of the wing has to go faster than the airplane.  The 
shock wave  starts toward the leading edge of the wing and progresses aft as 
the aircraft  speed increases.  Early supersonic aircraft became unstable 
when the shock  wave reached the control surfaces.  Sometimes you can see the 
shock wave on  a passenger flight as a light shadow dancing along the top 
of the wing, the  result of light refracting in the compressed air.
The "sound barrier" of mach 1 is the only transition of the type described  
above, all the other even mach numbers are just arbitrarily selected units 
and  have no more meaning than using, say, even 1000's of feet per second ( 
up to  hypersonic speeds, anyway).  On the other hand, the dynamic pressure 
caused  by the impact of air molecules rises exponentially as the speed 
increases  according to the laws of momentum.  You have heard that it is best to 
move  quickly through the transonic zone.  That's good advice, since a 
rocket  might be fairly stable but not perfect in the transition zone.
-Robert Simpson-Clark
 
In a message dated 2/21/2010 6:27:03 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
robert.killen at yahoo.com writes:

Hi  everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread 
raised  a question for me.  Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so 
this is  purely curiosity on my part.
Since air is air is air, what creates the  extra stresses at or around 
Mach?  Does sound itself create friction or  turbulence or...?
Cheers!   Robert

Robert KillenBranding  
Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270 




_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From bradmcclure at hotmail.com  Mon Feb 22 10:58:39 2010
From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:58:39 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e41002212010i743a85cbmb964efd92ccf32e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>,
	<6bc920e41002212010i743a85cbmb964efd92ccf32e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W141C0474C65CDF891068EBB9430@phx.gbl>


It was great meeting everyone, great weather and great people!

 

I'm still morning the loss of the nosecone and payload section of my scratch built rocket primarily because it contained my Perfect Flight altimeter  :-(  Dave, you mentioned another brand of altimeter that will fit an Estes BT-20 but I can't remember the name.

 

Another learning experience that wasn't as costly was using three C6-7 motors in my Semroc Defender.  Should probably have used two C6-0's and one C6-7.  Using three motors each with ejection charges resulted in a shredded parachute.

 

It was great to see the Wildman carbon fiber Blackhawk in fly and I really liked Ken's fiberglass ARCAS!

 

Looking forward to next weekend.

 

-brad
 
> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:10:06 -0800
> From: dmrandall at gmail.com
> To: k2tsai at gmail.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
> 
> Ken,
> 
> Congrats for your L1 !! I was happy to witness for you and you did a
> great job with all the requirements. I am looking forward to more of
> your scratch built designs with a bit more oomph now than just B and C
> motors!
> 
> A few minor notes on some flights:
> 
> My Estes Patriot went up on a D15-7 first for a nice flight up to
> ~1,000'. I really wanted to fly the altimeter there, so I loaded up
> the Patriot's payload bay with my G-Wiz HCX and a 9V and reloaded the
> 24/40 motor with an F24 for more fun! HCX reported 1,542'. I
> guess that was all I ended up flying today. I really need some more
> 60 acres birds!
> 
> Jeff Mobley came down with a few friends and had the nice blue Mean
> Machine. It went up on a D12-7 first, and the flight seemed a bit -
> well - anemic. Sure, low and slow has its merits, but that rocket
> deserves more than a D. I had Jeff build up an AT 24/40 motor with
> the F24 reload in it. Jeff did a great job with the motor build - the
> rocket kicked up off the pad with authority and the flight was perfect
> with a recovery just off the field. A snapped-off fin and a bit of a
> dent in the body tube will need some R&R but I'm sure Jeff will be
> back for more.
> 
> By the way, the Mean Machine has a new design from when I first built
> mine 20 years ago. It now has a plaster coupler between the upper and
> lower halves that twists together and snaps into place. Very nice -
> it makes it easier to transport, and robust. I think I'm going to
> have to get one of those!
> 
> Loved the drag races we had there too.
> 
> 
> On a different note:
> 
> 1. Recovery over in 60 Acres SOUTH is "illegal" at the moment.
> Redmond City Police will and have ticketed folks for trespassing while
> this is posted as a "Construction Zone". They drive by 60 Acres
> approximately every 45 minutes. The nice guys from NWEF.ORG warned us
> about this.
> 
> 2. NWEF has secured a location as an electric plane flying area and
> offered to share with rocket flyers. This is located in Kirkland, and
> is surrounded by houses. It was indicated to be greater in size than
> 60 Acres South, but the layout is a bit odd. I'll follow up with
> them, as it appears that LWYSA may have scheduled weekend activity at
> 60 Acres every weekend from (IIRC - June) through October 31st. This
> might be a viable model field during the "on" season for soccer.
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Ken Tsai <k2tsai at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What a stunning day for a February!
> >
> > We got started right around noon, and the first flight was roughly 12:30.
> >
> > Dave Randall was there and brought a friend. Dave brought his Patriot
> > out again, and also had his Excel Plus Plus.  The Patriot is just
> > amazingly rugged. It just keeps going and going.  The Excel was
> > unfortunately grounded today for extenuating circumstances - more on
> > that in a bit.
> >
> > Dave Walp and Ian showed.  They brought their usual suspects: Mozzie,
> > Blackhawk, Cheetah - Another group of amazing flyers that just keep
> > coming back for more.  They brought more rockets in the box, but these
> > are the staples that beg to fly.
> >
> > Alex and I brought along Alex's friend Isaac.  Isaac brought his Star
> > Dart - a ~1996 (I think) vintage small Estes kit.  We brought a box of
> > stuff, and flew a ton - No Idea (a weird tube/fin combination that we
> > had no idea what to name), an upscale Estes Neon, Madcow's fiberglass
> > Arcas, Cheetah, an Art Applewhite Scimitar, the TARDIS (Doctor Who)
> > from Squirrel Works, and a vintage Estes Rigel-3.
> >
> > Brad showed up with his Initiator, and had a fantastic flight on a G.
> >
> > There were some other rocketeers on the field enjoying the brilliant
> > Sunday, as well as the usual contingent of R/C plane flyers.
> >
> > Isaac started the day with his Star Dart showing us the wind - none at
> > all.  Some gusts to the southeast, but nothing too worrisome.
> >
> > Alex followed with "No Idea" on an D12-5.  No Idea is a scratch build,
> > ~16" tall using BT56 tubing for the main.  Yeah, it really jumps on
> > 24mm engines.  Fortunately, the large ring/fin combinations means
> > pretty hefty drag, so it doesn't go out of sight.
> >
> > Dave Randall put his Patriot up on an AT D reload for the first
> > composite flight of the day.  Like I said, that Patriot just goes, and
> > comes back for more.
> >
> > After that, things get a little hazy for me.  Dave Randall and I had
> > exchanged emails earlier regarding L1 Cert flights at 60 Acres.  With
> > the new Class 1 definitions, it's possible.  When we arrived at the
> > field today, Dave's first words were "Hi, Ken.  You ready for that
> > cert flight?"
> >
> > I still haven't received my NAR number back from HQ, so I didn't come
> > prepared to make an attempt.  That didn't faze Dave at all.  He
> > promptly offered up the CTI 4g H skidmark that he had brought for the
> > Excel.  Just earlier this week, I had finished reinforcing the fillets
> > on the Arcas using chopped glass and West Systems epoxy.  Clearly
> > serendipity was with me today!  So with a little trepidation, I
> > accepted Dave's offer, and spent the next 30 minutes agonizing over my
> > options for the Arcas. 24, 30, or 36" chutes?  7 or 9 second delay?
> > Attach the quicklink to the nose bolt, or tie a loop in the kevlar
> > lower down??  There may have been other launches while I was prepping
> > - I really couldn't tell you.  Blow the whistle, count it down, and
> > what a roar those CTI motors make.  Gorgeous arcing flight to maybe
> > 1500' with recovery 2' from the fence in the northwest corner.  Looked
> > good to me, and when I brought it back, Dave confirmed the flight.
> > Time to get out the credit card - lots of fun engines are gonna be on
> > the way.
> >
> > I know I'm shorting several people here, but after the L1 flight, the
> > rest of the afternoon is just a haze.  Highlights for me include:
> >  - Cheetah drag race with Dave and Ian.  We ended up in a tree
> > (recoverable), they ended up on the next field over.  Maybe the F
> > engines weren't the best of choices.
> >
> >  - Mean Machine on an AT reload.  Something about a 6' tall rocket
> > screaming away.
> >
> >  - Brad's Initiator, on a G engine. Takes some guts to fly something
> > that high at 60 Acres.
> >
> >  - Applewhite 29mm Scimitar (saucer) on an AT G76G.  Didn't go nearly
> > as high as Brad's Initiator.
> >
> >  - About 15 flights of an Estes #2 Skywriter.  A family was out
> > documenting a school project that involved timing flights using
> > various engine configs.
> >
> > Once more, my eternal thanks to Dave Randall for being witness to my
> > L1 flight, and for going out of his way to enable it.  I owe him a
> > whole lot more than just a reload.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >  - Ken
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Mon Feb 22 12:54:01 2010
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:54:01 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
In-Reply-To: <SNT104-W141C0474C65CDF891068EBB9430@phx.gbl>
References: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>,
	<6bc920e41002212010i743a85cbmb964efd92ccf32e@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT104-W141C0474C65CDF891068EBB9430@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00a201cab401$2f0898e0$8d19caa0$@net>

Brad - I would use at least 2 of the C6-7 motors.  That doubles your chance
of recovery if one of the three motors does not light (not uncommon in
clusters).  Been there, done that - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Brad McClure
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:59 AM
To: dmrandall at gmail.com; k2tsai at gmail.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap


It was great meeting everyone, great weather and great people!

 

I'm still morning the loss of the nosecone and payload section of my scratch
built rocket primarily because it contained my Perfect Flight altimeter  :-(
Dave, you mentioned another brand of altimeter that will fit an Estes BT-20
but I can't remember the name.

 

Another learning experience that wasn't as costly was using three C6-7
motors in my Semroc Defender.  Should probably have used two C6-0's and one
C6-7.  Using three motors each with ejection charges resulted in a shredded
parachute.

 

It was great to see the Wildman carbon fiber Blackhawk in fly and I really
liked Ken's fiberglass ARCAS!

 

Looking forward to next weekend.

 

-brad
 
> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:10:06 -0800
> From: dmrandall at gmail.com
> To: k2tsai at gmail.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
> 
> Ken,
> 
> Congrats for your L1 !! I was happy to witness for you and you did a
> great job with all the requirements. I am looking forward to more of
> your scratch built designs with a bit more oomph now than just B and C
> motors!
> 
> A few minor notes on some flights:
> 
> My Estes Patriot went up on a D15-7 first for a nice flight up to
> ~1,000'. I really wanted to fly the altimeter there, so I loaded up
> the Patriot's payload bay with my G-Wiz HCX and a 9V and reloaded the
> 24/40 motor with an F24 for more fun! HCX reported 1,542'. I
> guess that was all I ended up flying today. I really need some more
> 60 acres birds!
> 
> Jeff Mobley came down with a few friends and had the nice blue Mean
> Machine. It went up on a D12-7 first, and the flight seemed a bit -
> well - anemic. Sure, low and slow has its merits, but that rocket
> deserves more than a D. I had Jeff build up an AT 24/40 motor with
> the F24 reload in it. Jeff did a great job with the motor build - the
> rocket kicked up off the pad with authority and the flight was perfect
> with a recovery just off the field. A snapped-off fin and a bit of a
> dent in the body tube will need some R&R but I'm sure Jeff will be
> back for more.
> 
> By the way, the Mean Machine has a new design from when I first built
> mine 20 years ago. It now has a plaster coupler between the upper and
> lower halves that twists together and snaps into place. Very nice -
> it makes it easier to transport, and robust. I think I'm going to
> have to get one of those!
> 
> Loved the drag races we had there too.
> 
> 
> On a different note:
> 
> 1. Recovery over in 60 Acres SOUTH is "illegal" at the moment.
> Redmond City Police will and have ticketed folks for trespassing while
> this is posted as a "Construction Zone". They drive by 60 Acres
> approximately every 45 minutes. The nice guys from NWEF.ORG warned us
> about this.
> 
> 2. NWEF has secured a location as an electric plane flying area and
> offered to share with rocket flyers. This is located in Kirkland, and
> is surrounded by houses. It was indicated to be greater in size than
> 60 Acres South, but the layout is a bit odd. I'll follow up with
> them, as it appears that LWYSA may have scheduled weekend activity at
> 60 Acres every weekend from (IIRC - June) through October 31st. This
> might be a viable model field during the "on" season for soccer.
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Ken Tsai <k2tsai at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What a stunning day for a February!
> >
> > We got started right around noon, and the first flight was roughly
12:30.
> >
> > Dave Randall was there and brought a friend. Dave brought his Patriot
> > out again, and also had his Excel Plus Plus.  The Patriot is just
> > amazingly rugged. It just keeps going and going.  The Excel was
> > unfortunately grounded today for extenuating circumstances - more on
> > that in a bit.
> >
> > Dave Walp and Ian showed.  They brought their usual suspects: Mozzie,
> > Blackhawk, Cheetah - Another group of amazing flyers that just keep
> > coming back for more.  They brought more rockets in the box, but these
> > are the staples that beg to fly.
> >
> > Alex and I brought along Alex's friend Isaac.  Isaac brought his Star
> > Dart - a ~1996 (I think) vintage small Estes kit.  We brought a box of
> > stuff, and flew a ton - No Idea (a weird tube/fin combination that we
> > had no idea what to name), an upscale Estes Neon, Madcow's fiberglass
> > Arcas, Cheetah, an Art Applewhite Scimitar, the TARDIS (Doctor Who)
> > from Squirrel Works, and a vintage Estes Rigel-3.
> >
> > Brad showed up with his Initiator, and had a fantastic flight on a G.
> >
> > There were some other rocketeers on the field enjoying the brilliant
> > Sunday, as well as the usual contingent of R/C plane flyers.
> >
> > Isaac started the day with his Star Dart showing us the wind - none at
> > all.  Some gusts to the southeast, but nothing too worrisome.
> >
> > Alex followed with "No Idea" on an D12-5.  No Idea is a scratch build,
> > ~16" tall using BT56 tubing for the main.  Yeah, it really jumps on
> > 24mm engines.  Fortunately, the large ring/fin combinations means
> > pretty hefty drag, so it doesn't go out of sight.
> >
> > Dave Randall put his Patriot up on an AT D reload for the first
> > composite flight of the day.  Like I said, that Patriot just goes, and
> > comes back for more.
> >
> > After that, things get a little hazy for me.  Dave Randall and I had
> > exchanged emails earlier regarding L1 Cert flights at 60 Acres.  With
> > the new Class 1 definitions, it's possible.  When we arrived at the
> > field today, Dave's first words were "Hi, Ken.  You ready for that
> > cert flight?"
> >
> > I still haven't received my NAR number back from HQ, so I didn't come
> > prepared to make an attempt.  That didn't faze Dave at all.  He
> > promptly offered up the CTI 4g H skidmark that he had brought for the
> > Excel.  Just earlier this week, I had finished reinforcing the fillets
> > on the Arcas using chopped glass and West Systems epoxy.  Clearly
> > serendipity was with me today!  So with a little trepidation, I
> > accepted Dave's offer, and spent the next 30 minutes agonizing over my
> > options for the Arcas. 24, 30, or 36" chutes?  7 or 9 second delay?
> > Attach the quicklink to the nose bolt, or tie a loop in the kevlar
> > lower down??  There may have been other launches while I was prepping
> > - I really couldn't tell you.  Blow the whistle, count it down, and
> > what a roar those CTI motors make.  Gorgeous arcing flight to maybe
> > 1500' with recovery 2' from the fence in the northwest corner.  Looked
> > good to me, and when I brought it back, Dave confirmed the flight.
> > Time to get out the credit card - lots of fun engines are gonna be on
> > the way.
> >
> > I know I'm shorting several people here, but after the L1 flight, the
> > rest of the afternoon is just a haze.  Highlights for me include:
> >  - Cheetah drag race with Dave and Ian.  We ended up in a tree
> > (recoverable), they ended up on the next field over.  Maybe the F
> > engines weren't the best of choices.
> >
> >  - Mean Machine on an AT reload.  Something about a 6' tall rocket
> > screaming away.
> >
> >  - Brad's Initiator, on a G engine. Takes some guts to fly something
> > that high at 60 Acres.
> >
> >  - Applewhite 29mm Scimitar (saucer) on an AT G76G.  Didn't go nearly
> > as high as Brad's Initiator.
> >
> >  - About 15 flights of an Estes #2 Skywriter.  A family was out
> > documenting a school project that involved timing flights using
> > various engine configs.
> >
> > Once more, my eternal thanks to Dave Randall for being witness to my
> > L1 flight, and for going out of his way to enable it.  I owe him a
> > whole lot more than just a reload.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >  - Ken
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From joebevier at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:50:09 2010
From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:50:09 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E596CBA36@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<606551.75524.qm@web112907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<855165.30378.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E596CBA36@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <45717541002221250q1958d6c4j94068b88bdc54fee@mail.gmail.com>

Brilliant Robert and Robert.

OS! is the correct answer for weekday use of this equation. . However
the MBRSMNT factor must be added to weekend use in calculating flight
stress.  When everyone's watching it logarithmically increases the
 MBRSMNT/sec/sec.  Therefore:

                                                      Mu(sub t)^2
OS =(MBRSMNT/sec/sec)Mu(sub v) ---------------
                                                     (HAI / cos^3 )

Who knew rocket science could be so much fun?
-Joe


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Krausert, Robert <robert.krausert at intel.com
> wrote:

> Did I get the answer right?
>
>                 Mu(sub t)^2
> OS = Mu(sub v) ---------------
>                (HAI / cos^3 )
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 9:15 AM
> To: Robert Braibish; Robert Killen; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>
> The lesser known Munch number is also a significant threshold in rocket
> design and construction.  The Munch number (Mu) is a confusing variable to
> understand because it can represent both a time and a speed. Mu (sub t)
> represents the time into a rocket flight that the builder realizes he/she
> forgot a critical element in a successful flight (like powering-up an
> altimeter or setting the Mach delay or letting the glue dry on the launch
> lug).  Mu (sub v) represents the speed at which the aforementioned omission,
> a structural error, or some other defect causes the rocket to shred and
> litter the sky or careen out of control to eventually impact mother earth at
> full thrust.  Both instances of the Munch number are identified when the
> rocket owner adopts a pose such as this.
>
> Similar to the Much number, there is the Home-Alone Index  The subtle
> differences between the HAI and Mu are a matter of timing and age of the
> rocket builder.
>
>
> R. Braibish
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Braibish <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>
> To: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 7:13:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>
> I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but basically there is a dangerous
> zone (trans-sonic speed).
> In a nut shell, sound is energy.
> As an object approaches the speed of sound, the energy waves begin to "pile
> up" in front of the object (the object making the sound is beginning to
> catch up to the sounds it created).
> This "pile up" of sound energy creates a LOT of turbulence because the drag
> increases at different rates relative to the increase in speed in the
> trans-sonic zone.
>
> Perhaps a conceptual analogy would be a wheel out of alignment.  At slow
> speeds the mis-alignment is not very noticeable, as your speed increases,
> the shake becomes pronounced but, at a certain yet higher speed it begins to
> subside again. The causes of the shaking with a mis-aligned wheel are quite
> different from the shock waves for trans-sonic travel but like the vehicle,
> once an object has cleared Mach, the shock wave has passed and does not
> produce the turbulence.
>
> R. Braibish
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 6:26:36 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>
> Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread
> raised a question for me.  Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this
> is purely curiosity on my part.
> Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach?
>  Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
> Cheers!   Robert
>
> Robert KillenBranding
> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From daron at daronjohnson.com  Mon Feb 22 17:24:36 2010
From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:24:36 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] PML Intruder electronics bay
Message-ID: <000001cab426$f7eb7280$e7c25780$@daronjohnson.com>

Looking for some ebay suggestions for a 3" PML Intruder.

I prefer to buy the whole ebay as a kit.

 

Giant Leap sells a 3" kit, however I seem to recall that there is some
sizing differences when using Quantum tube opposed to phenolic?!?! Not sure
it would work or not.

 

Thanks,

-Daron


From dmrandall at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 17:43:40 2010
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:43:40 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] When to use large rail buttons
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd1002220941l34cb6ae9lf17dd81a0cd84811@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e068dfbd1002220941l34cb6ae9lf17dd81a0cd84811@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6bc920e41002221743v3da8473coe2c746f48cbb695d@mail.gmail.com>

Carl,

My first large rail button rocket was the Little Joe II.  Weighed 50
lbs on take off.  I have my 2 stage Excel Plus Plus that went up with
the little buttons - a 6" diameter rocket that's 11' tall with booster
& sustainer coupled together.  Buttons got torqued a bit on that
rocket, so I'd say the large buttons would have supported the moving
mass better.

IMO - go with the larger ones.

And, while you're at it... go with a replaceable version that was
discussed here before.

Dave

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Carl Hamilton <carl at mousetrap.com> wrote:
> I'm working on a project that is larger than anything I have done to date,
> but which I would not consider terribly large. It's 5" in diameter, 96"
> long, and will weight around 30 pounds on the pad, depending on the motor.
> I'm pretty sure that "regular" rail buttons, those that fit a 1010 rail,
> will be more than enough, but thought I should ask the group for opinions as
> to when "large" rail buttons, those for a 1515 rail, are needed.
>
> So, at what point should "large" rail buttons be used?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ?- Carl
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From fred at azinger.com  Mon Feb 22 17:50:54 2010
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:50:54 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] When to use large rail buttons
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e41002221743v3da8473coe2c746f48cbb695d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e068dfbd1002220941l34cb6ae9lf17dd81a0cd84811@mail.gmail.com>
	<6bc920e41002221743v3da8473coe2c746f48cbb695d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ef01cab42a$a37f3750$ea7da5f0$@com>

I say SMALL buttons for sure.
Unless you want to haul your own rail to launch, you want small buttons.
Plus, 50 pounds is easily within the capacity of small buttons.
Just use three.... two down low and one as close to the Cg as possible.
Three 8-32 bolts will easily hold 50 pounds.



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:44 PM
To: Carl Hamilton
Cc: NorthWest Rocketry
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] When to use large rail buttons

Carl,

My first large rail button rocket was the Little Joe II.  Weighed 50
lbs on take off.  I have my 2 stage Excel Plus Plus that went up with
the little buttons - a 6" diameter rocket that's 11' tall with booster
& sustainer coupled together.  Buttons got torqued a bit on that
rocket, so I'd say the large buttons would have supported the moving
mass better.

IMO - go with the larger ones.

And, while you're at it... go with a replaceable version that was
discussed here before.

Dave

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Carl Hamilton <carl at mousetrap.com> wrote:
> I'm working on a project that is larger than anything I have done to date,
> but which I would not consider terribly large. It's 5" in diameter, 96"
> long, and will weight around 30 pounds on the pad, depending on the motor.
> I'm pretty sure that "regular" rail buttons, those that fit a 1010 rail,
> will be more than enough, but thought I should ask the group for opinions
as
> to when "large" rail buttons, those for a 1515 rail, are needed.
>
> So, at what point should "large" rail buttons be used?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ?- Carl
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From worthenc at msn.com  Mon Feb 22 19:00:43 2010
From: worthenc at msn.com (JAMES C WORTHEN)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:00:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Hobbylinc?
Message-ID: <COL124-DS34993DFDE59CBF081D586DB420@phx.gbl>

Has anybody had any dealings with Hobblinc.com for E F or G motors?  They seem to have the best prices but I have never deal with them.  Looking for some motors for TARC  teams.
Thanks
J C Worthen
Boise

From sb at berfield.com  Mon Feb 22 19:01:54 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:01:54 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] new pics
Message-ID: <002101cab434$8e4f4820$aaedd860$@com>

Posted a few more pics of the 75 project. Got the airframe done, painted and
polished. Total weight without recovery harness and chute(s) is 5lbs, 6oz. 

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/75mmMinimumDiameterProject#

 


From rwjcom at comcast.net  Mon Feb 22 19:12:54 2010
From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:12:54 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch 4 - Payback?
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd1002220924j44941312p4c018e62696b40ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4081E107-4EC8-4775-96FF-9B0A8EF2E266@comcast.net>
	<C7A6D005.1B7A%angelawr@wrightholdings.com>
	<e068dfbd1002220810v3e00ec80i8c5b2956584e16f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<004c01cab3e1$fc02dce0$f40896a0$@net>
	<e068dfbd1002220924j44941312p4c018e62696b40ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF7C2E0A-2268-4B3C-8AC0-FB2FED41F38F@comcast.net>

With a modest amount of obligatory credit given to the pop-culture  
creature known as "American Idol", and to one of it's elements that  
escaped into the broader world,  let me offer a riff inspired by the  
thought of a tie-dyed shirt being worn with the afore mentioned  
curling pants:

Pants on the ground
Pants on the ground
Red said she found Carl?s pants layin? over there on the ground

Wearin them big bold plaids down below
and bright neon colored tie-dies up above
How could you loose pants like them on the ground?
Time to head into downtown
Walking ?round in M-Town calling out loud for "Pants on the Ground!

Pick ?em up quick
Get those pants up off the ground
Before the local folks claim them to been found
and object to us leaving our laundry out on the ground

Pick them up in a hurry!	
Loosing them pants makes for a good laugh.
Don?t have to know the facts
To chuckle just thinkin? ?bout plaid pants on the ground.


Humor is hard on the internet, I know.  But I keep trying it anyway.


On Feb 22, 2010, at 9:24 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:

> Oh, good idea, Marty! Those would go great with one of my tie-dyed t- 
> shirts!
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Marty Weiser  
> <MartyWeiser at comcast.net> wrote:
> Carl - Perhaps if you get you a pair of the Norwegian Curling team  
> pants
> they would be easier to find and perhaps even keep track of in the  
> first
> place. - Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> ]
> On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 8:11 AM
> To: Bob Jimerson
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch 4 - Payback?
>
> I'm with Red on this one: a keg of home brew at FITS would be  
> awesome and I
> would be more than happy to help finish it off.
>
> Now, regarding my pants; any and all help in locating them would be  
> much
> appreciated.
>
>  - Carl
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Angela "Red" Wright <
> angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:
>
> > Speaking for myself and the other Pirate Singers, I think that  
> this would
> > be
> > SUPER!  We welcome any and all after flight activities, including,  
> but not
> > limited too, Karaoke, Booze, fire building, Pirate flag waving and  
> of
> > course, finding Carl's Pants! :)
> >
> > Red
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/21/10 11:49 AM, "Bob Jimerson" <rwjcom at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > A question of a different sort for all of those that are heading  
> to
> > > FITS this year.  Would it be appropriate to offer, and would  
> there be
> > > any interest in a small keg of homemade microbrew style beer for  
> after
> > > hours activities?
> > >
> > > I know a guy pretty well that has dusted off his old home  
> brewing kit
> > > and is also dusting off his old home brewing skills.  He's  
> thinking
> > > along the lines of an English style bitter, or perhaps a Pale  
> Ale but
> > > is open to other ideas as well.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Mon Feb 22 19:39:29 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:39:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <45717541002221250q1958d6c4j94068b88bdc54fee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<606551.75524.qm@web112907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<855165.30378.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E596CBA36@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<45717541002221250q1958d6c4j94068b88bdc54fee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d53f0927be9fcd46231d9b279a402c4a.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com>

Motivation to build rockets is proportional to average daily temperature,
inversely proportional to the sum of mandatory distracting factors,
proportional to the fourth power of disposable income, and exponentially
related to the imminency of a launch.

Or something like that.  :)
+McG+


> Brilliant Robert and Robert.
>
> OS! is the correct answer for weekday use of this equation. . However
> the MBRSMNT factor must be added to weekend use in calculating flight
> stress.  When everyone's watching it logarithmically increases the
>  MBRSMNT/sec/sec.  Therefore:
>
>                                                       Mu(sub t)^2
> OS =(MBRSMNT/sec/sec)Mu(sub v) ---------------
>                                                      (HAI / cos^3 )
>
> Who knew rocket science could be so much fun?
> -Joe
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Krausert, Robert
> <robert.krausert at intel.com
>> wrote:
>
>> Did I get the answer right?
>>
>>                 Mu(sub t)^2
>> OS = Mu(sub v) ---------------
>>                (HAI / cos^3 )
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 9:15 AM
>> To: Robert Braibish; Robert Killen; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>
>> The lesser known Munch number is also a significant threshold in rocket
>> design and construction.  The Munch number (Mu) is a confusing variable
>> to
>> understand because it can represent both a time and a speed. Mu (sub t)
>> represents the time into a rocket flight that the builder realizes
>> he/she
>> forgot a critical element in a successful flight (like powering-up an
>> altimeter or setting the Mach delay or letting the glue dry on the
>> launch
>> lug).  Mu (sub v) represents the speed at which the aforementioned
>> omission,
>> a structural error, or some other defect causes the rocket to shred and
>> litter the sky or careen out of control to eventually impact mother
>> earth at
>> full thrust.  Both instances of the Munch number are identified when the
>> rocket owner adopts a pose such as this.
>>
>> Similar to the Much number, there is the Home-Alone Index  The subtle
>> differences between the HAI and Mu are a matter of timing and age of the
>> rocket builder.
>>
>>
>> R. Braibish
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Robert Braibish <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>
>> To: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 7:13:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>
>> I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but basically there is a
>> dangerous
>> zone (trans-sonic speed).
>> In a nut shell, sound is energy.
>> As an object approaches the speed of sound, the energy waves begin to
>> "pile
>> up" in front of the object (the object making the sound is beginning to
>> catch up to the sounds it created).
>> This "pile up" of sound energy creates a LOT of turbulence because the
>> drag
>> increases at different rates relative to the increase in speed in the
>> trans-sonic zone.
>>
>> Perhaps a conceptual analogy would be a wheel out of alignment.  At slow
>> speeds the mis-alignment is not very noticeable, as your speed
>> increases,
>> the shake becomes pronounced but, at a certain yet higher speed it
>> begins to
>> subside again. The causes of the shaking with a mis-aligned wheel are
>> quite
>> different from the shock waves for trans-sonic travel but like the
>> vehicle,
>> once an object has cleared Mach, the shock wave has passed and does not
>> produce the turbulence.
>>
>> R. Braibish
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 6:26:36 PM
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>
>> Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another
>> thread
>> raised a question for me.  Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so
>> this
>> is purely curiosity on my part.
>> Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around
>> Mach?
>>  Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
>> Cheers!   Robert
>>
>> Robert KillenBranding
>> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 20:04:51 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:04:51 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><606551.75524.qm@web112907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><855165.30378.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E596CBA36@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com><45717541002221250q1958d6c4j94068b88bdc54fee@mail.gmail.com>
	<d53f0927be9fcd46231d9b279a402c4a.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com>
Message-ID: <0BAF1E9E489245D0A3764A4ACFD0B109@LaptopKrausert>

Ken's equation is better than mine. You can never have an OS value without 
Ken's factors first.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
To: "Joe Bevier" <joebevier at gmail.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?


> Motivation to build rockets is proportional to average daily temperature,
> inversely proportional to the sum of mandatory distracting factors,
> proportional to the fourth power of disposable income, and exponentially
> related to the imminency of a launch.
>
> Or something like that.  :)
> +McG+
>
>
>> Brilliant Robert and Robert.
>>
>> OS! is the correct answer for weekday use of this equation. . However
>> the MBRSMNT factor must be added to weekend use in calculating flight
>> stress.  When everyone's watching it logarithmically increases the
>>  MBRSMNT/sec/sec.  Therefore:
>>
>>                                                       Mu(sub t)^2
>> OS =(MBRSMNT/sec/sec)Mu(sub v) ---------------
>>                                                      (HAI / cos^3 )
>>
>> Who knew rocket science could be so much fun?
>> -Joe
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Krausert, Robert
>> <robert.krausert at intel.com
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did I get the answer right?
>>>
>>>                 Mu(sub t)^2
>>> OS = Mu(sub v) ---------------
>>>                (HAI / cos^3 )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 9:15 AM
>>> To: Robert Braibish; Robert Killen; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>>
>>> The lesser known Munch number is also a significant threshold in rocket
>>> design and construction.  The Munch number (Mu) is a confusing variable
>>> to
>>> understand because it can represent both a time and a speed. Mu (sub t)
>>> represents the time into a rocket flight that the builder realizes
>>> he/she
>>> forgot a critical element in a successful flight (like powering-up an
>>> altimeter or setting the Mach delay or letting the glue dry on the
>>> launch
>>> lug).  Mu (sub v) represents the speed at which the aforementioned
>>> omission,
>>> a structural error, or some other defect causes the rocket to shred and
>>> litter the sky or careen out of control to eventually impact mother
>>> earth at
>>> full thrust.  Both instances of the Munch number are identified when the
>>> rocket owner adopts a pose such as this.
>>>
>>> Similar to the Much number, there is the Home-Alone Index  The subtle
>>> differences between the HAI and Mu are a matter of timing and age of the
>>> rocket builder.
>>>
>>>
>>> R. Braibish
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Robert Braibish <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>
>>> To: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 7:13:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>>
>>> I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but basically there is a
>>> dangerous
>>> zone (trans-sonic speed).
>>> In a nut shell, sound is energy.
>>> As an object approaches the speed of sound, the energy waves begin to
>>> "pile
>>> up" in front of the object (the object making the sound is beginning to
>>> catch up to the sounds it created).
>>> This "pile up" of sound energy creates a LOT of turbulence because the
>>> drag
>>> increases at different rates relative to the increase in speed in the
>>> trans-sonic zone.
>>>
>>> Perhaps a conceptual analogy would be a wheel out of alignment.  At slow
>>> speeds the mis-alignment is not very noticeable, as your speed
>>> increases,
>>> the shake becomes pronounced but, at a certain yet higher speed it
>>> begins to
>>> subside again. The causes of the shaking with a mis-aligned wheel are
>>> quite
>>> different from the shock waves for trans-sonic travel but like the
>>> vehicle,
>>> once an object has cleared Mach, the shock wave has passed and does not
>>> produce the turbulence.
>>>
>>> R. Braibish
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 6:26:36 PM
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another
>>> thread
>>> raised a question for me.  Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so
>>> this
>>> is purely curiosity on my part.
>>> Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around
>>> Mach?
>>>  Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
>>> Cheers!   Robert
>>>
>>> Robert KillenBranding
>>> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From stevet19759 at comcast.net  Tue Feb 23 00:09:29 2010
From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:09:29 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <45717541002221250q1958d6c4j94068b88bdc54fee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>	<606551.75524.qm@web112907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<855165.30378.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E596CBA36@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<45717541002221250q1958d6c4j94068b88bdc54fee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B838D39.4080901@comcast.net>

Don't forget the very important WTF-OS delay.
A long WTF - OS interval is generally associated with the rocket doing
especially interesting manuevers in flight, such as slowly turning over 
before the second stage motor ignites.  A short WTF - OS delay is 
associated with much more exciting manuevers, especially those at lower 
altitude and those that trigger the duck response.

-ST

Joe Bevier wrote:
> Brilliant Robert and Robert.
> 
> OS! is the correct answer for weekday use of this equation. . However
> the MBRSMNT factor must be added to weekend use in calculating flight
> stress.  When everyone's watching it logarithmically increases the
>  MBRSMNT/sec/sec.  Therefore:
> 
>                                                       Mu(sub t)^2
> OS =(MBRSMNT/sec/sec)Mu(sub v) ---------------
>                                                      (HAI / cos^3 )
> 
> Who knew rocket science could be so much fun?
> -Joe
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Krausert, Robert <robert.krausert at intel.com
>> wrote:
> 
>> Did I get the answer right?
>>
>>                 Mu(sub t)^2
>> OS = Mu(sub v) ---------------
>>                (HAI / cos^3 )
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 9:15 AM
>> To: Robert Braibish; Robert Killen; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>
>> The lesser known Munch number is also a significant threshold in rocket
>> design and construction.  The Munch number (Mu) is a confusing variable to
>> understand because it can represent both a time and a speed. Mu (sub t)
>> represents the time into a rocket flight that the builder realizes he/she
>> forgot a critical element in a successful flight (like powering-up an
>> altimeter or setting the Mach delay or letting the glue dry on the launch
>> lug).  Mu (sub v) represents the speed at which the aforementioned omission,
>> a structural error, or some other defect causes the rocket to shred and
>> litter the sky or careen out of control to eventually impact mother earth at
>> full thrust.  Both instances of the Munch number are identified when the
>> rocket owner adopts a pose such as this.
>>
>> Similar to the Much number, there is the Home-Alone Index  The subtle
>> differences between the HAI and Mu are a matter of timing and age of the
>> rocket builder.
>>
>>
>> R. Braibish
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Robert Braibish <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>
>> To: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 7:13:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>
>> I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but basically there is a dangerous
>> zone (trans-sonic speed).
>> In a nut shell, sound is energy.
>> As an object approaches the speed of sound, the energy waves begin to "pile
>> up" in front of the object (the object making the sound is beginning to
>> catch up to the sounds it created).
>> This "pile up" of sound energy creates a LOT of turbulence because the drag
>> increases at different rates relative to the increase in speed in the
>> trans-sonic zone.
>>
>> Perhaps a conceptual analogy would be a wheel out of alignment.  At slow
>> speeds the mis-alignment is not very noticeable, as your speed increases,
>> the shake becomes pronounced but, at a certain yet higher speed it begins to
>> subside again. The causes of the shaking with a mis-aligned wheel are quite
>> different from the shock waves for trans-sonic travel but like the vehicle,
>> once an object has cleared Mach, the shock wave has passed and does not
>> produce the turbulence.
>>
>> R. Braibish
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 6:26:36 PM
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>
>> Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread
>> raised a question for me.  Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this
>> is purely curiosity on my part.
>> Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach?
>>  Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
>> Cheers!   Robert
>>
>> Robert KillenBranding
>> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 


From ibelchloud at aol.com  Tue Feb 23 02:20:08 2010
From: ibelchloud at aol.com (ibelchloud at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:20:08 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and
	Attachement
In-Reply-To: <D64CF17E-6C99-402C-AE38-E167CE6E4FB1@comcast.net>
References: <D64CF17E-6C99-402C-AE38-E167CE6E4FB1@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8CC8288E8B0E0EA-3094-B318@webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com>



Bob,

I mount my ebays using 3 or 4 screws per chute compartment through the airframe and the coupler.  Number of screws is dependent on number of fins as I just extend the marks up the tube.  Most if not all ebays are constructed using at least one piece of threaded rod running through the bay which the endcaps are mounted on then tightened with nuts of some sort.  This rod transfers all force of recovery through it so the screws holding the bay to the body tube have little to no force on them.  And the eyebolts transfer that force to the rod.  So using the better eyebolts eliminates a failure point.  Brad W. has personal experience with that failure I believe as have many others.  I use U-bolts when I can, they are cheaper than forged eyebolts and weigh the same.  Plus I can get them at the local hardware store and not have to order from McMaster.

I mount my switches inside my bay and access them through a vent hole.  I either mount the switch directly to the board itself or use a piece of brass strip bent around to line up with the hole.  Other people have an inch or so wide band of airframe mounted to the coupler and they mount the switch to that so it is on the outside of the airframe easier to activate.

As far as sealing the ebay, my first one had the bottom plates epoxied to the coupler and that works great.  However the last few I have done, I've been lazy and let both sides be free and haven't seen any evidence of ejection gasses.  I would strongly recommend using a coupler cap over a single cap that fits inside the coupler.  Check out Binder Design's site for the former style and LOC's website for the latter style.

I use to like that idea of transferring bays from rocket to rocket but soon found out what a pain in the ass it was to line up existing holes in couplers to drill new holes in the airframe.  I actually gave up before I got all that far.  Just bought more ebay parts and have one bay for each bird.  Just buy Mike's kits around Christmas and you will be set.

Hope that helps some, keep the questions coming!

Lou 





-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Jimerson <rwjcom at comcast.net>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Sun, Feb 21, 2010 11:36 am
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement


Here is the threatened post regarding E-bays. 
 
I am thinking of using an e-bay design that allows the e-bay to be moved between rockets rather than a design where it is a permanent part of the rocket. Gluing it in place makes some things easier, but is not the route that I'd prefer to go on this one. 
 
E-bays of the non-permanent type 
How mount the removable/transient E-bay to the body tube? 
How many of what type of fastener are used 
Any concerns about transferring loads from the recovery system to these relatively small fasteners in a trough-the-wall application. 
It seems odd that we are advised to use only welded or forged eye bolts of the highest possible grade for shock cord attachment for fear of them failing from the forces generated by deployment of parachutes, but that short and thin treaded bolts (screws really) running through unreinforced thin walled fiberglass tubes work out just fine. Aren't the exotic eye bolts that our high strength shock cords are attached to mounted to the E-bay? 
How to deal with switches for electronics? 
Are the switches mounted into the wall of the E-Bay and then aligned with holes in the body tube? That seems to require that the switched be mounted inside of the outer diameter of the E-bay tube and require a few largish holes in the body tubes. 
Or are the switched mounted to to body tube outside of the E-bay foot print and somehow connected to the E-bay after it is installed in the body tube. It is a little hard to see how this would work without putting ones hand in close proximity to ejection charges while hooking up the wires that will fire those charges - might just be me, but that sounds like a bad idea. 
Protecting against ejection charge gases? 
How much protection is enough? 
Foam gaskets 
O-rings 
Wet glaze with structural silicone? 
A couple of screws and a reasonably snug fit between the bulk plate and the e-bay tube? 
Cool E-Bay tricks? 
Mounting hardware for altimeters - standard standoff or other 
Plywood vs fiberglass for mounting boards for altimeters 
Pro's and Con's of using a single larger threaded rod vs multiple smaller rods 
Other? 
 
The Questions: 
 
How to securely attach such an e-bay to the rocket for flight. Number, type and location of fasteners and reinforcements? 
How to mount the arming switches so that they can be accessed on the pad without resorting to a bunch of big and deep holes in the side of the rocket. 
What are some good ways to seal up the e-bay to protect the contents from those nasty combustion byproducts? 
All the other stuff I should have asked, but didn't. 
 
Thanks to all, 
 
 
Bob 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 


From glech at aol.com  Tue Feb 23 06:58:11 2010
From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:58:11 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] Hobbylinc?
In-Reply-To: <COL124-DS34993DFDE59CBF081D586DB420@phx.gbl>
References: <COL124-DS34993DFDE59CBF081D586DB420@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CC82AFC0D74828-24B8-D2F6@webmail-d063.sysops.aol.com>


I've ordered from them lots of times. They're reputable and speedy even lthough the motors are only shipped by ground.
 


Cheers from ~ 
Gary Lech L1 TRA/NAR



-----Original Message-----
From: JAMES C WORTHEN <worthenc at msn.com>
To: rockets <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 22, 2010 7:00 pm
Subject: [RocketsNW] Hobbylinc?


Has anybody had any dealings with Hobblinc.com for E F or G motors?  They seem 
o have the best prices but I have never deal with them.  Looking for some 
otors for TARC  teams.
hanks
 C Worthen
oise
______________________________________________
ockets mailing list
ockets at rocketsnw.com
ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 


From worthenc at msn.com  Tue Feb 23 07:59:10 2010
From: worthenc at msn.com (JAMES C WORTHEN)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:59:10 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Hobbylinc
Message-ID: <COL124-DS93EF3D30C787FBC9CB070DB420@phx.gbl>

Thanks to all those who gave me some input on Hobbylinc.  Really appreciate it.
J C

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Tue Feb 23 08:08:01 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:08:01 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and
	Attachement
Message-ID: <9026.107cd8ca.38b55761@aol.com>

Lou,
 
Thanks for the plug! :)
 
I get around the holes not lining up by not using them anymore.  I  don't 
attach my e-bays to either section, I secure the nosecone and eject the  bay 
instead.  Since the bay is the heavier of the two, it pulls the main  out 
cleaner.
 
 I still use a different bay for every rocket, just to make the paint  jobs 
match, but to some flyers that is not a consideration.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/23/2010 2:20:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
ibelchloud at aol.com writes:

I use to  like that idea of transferring bays from rocket to rocket but 
soon found out  what a pain in the ass it was to line up existing holes in 
couplers to drill  new holes in the airframe.  I actually gave up before I got 
all that  far.  Just bought more ebay parts and have one bay for each bird.   
Just buy Mike's kits around Christmas and you will be  set.


From rwjcom at comcast.net  Tue Feb 23 10:09:44 2010
From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:09:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and
 Attachement
In-Reply-To: <9026.107cd8ca.38b55761@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1727256516.8495791266948584277.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



O-o-o-o-h-h-h-h-h!? I like that idea. But (predictably) have a couple of questions. 



Do you also eject the e-bay from the tail section, or do you seperate them conventionally? 



Do you move the main 'chute closer to the ebay when you set things up this way?? Seems like the accepted wisdom is to attach the 'chute 1/3 of the way down the harness from the nose cone, when the cone is?the ejected bit.? When it is the e-bay that is ejected, does it make sense to move the 'chute?attachment?to a third-point away from it?? That would give the e-bay the softest possible landing wouldn't it?? Might take some work on harness lengths to keep the nose and tail section clear of each other during recovery. 



Best, 



Bob 




----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com 
To: ibelchloud at aol.com, rwjcom at comcast.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:08:01 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement 


Lou, 

Thanks for the plug! :) 

I get around the holes not lining up by not using them anymore.? I don't attach my e-bays to either section, I secure the nosecone and eject the bay instead.? Since the bay is the heavier of the two, it pulls the main out cleaner. 

?

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Tue Feb 23 11:02:25 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:02:25 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and
	Attachement
Message-ID: <f2de.332015a6.38b58041@aol.com>

At apogee, the booster ejects the upper section which includes the upper  
airframe and the bay.  The bay can be shear pinned or what I do is  friction 
fit and use aluminum shear tape to hold it to the upper section.   Then, at 
main deploy, the bay ejects from the rear of the upper section, pulling  the 
chute out.
 
I like attaching the chute about two feet from the part being ejected to  
ensure it gets pulled out briskly.
 
The above method only works correctly if your e-bay has a band of airframe  
in the middle.  It doesn't need to be a wide section either, just big  
enough for your vent hole and arming switch.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/23/2010 10:09:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
rwjcom at comcast.net writes:

 
O-o-o-o-h-h-h-h-h!  I like that idea. But (predictably) have a couple  of 
questions. 
Do you also eject the e-bay from the tail section, or do you seperate them  
conventionally? 
Do you move the main 'chute closer to the ebay when you set things up this  
way?  Seems like the accepted wisdom is to attach the 'chute 1/3 of the  
way down the harness from the nose cone, when the cone is the ejected  bit.  
When it is the e-bay that is ejected, does it make sense to move  the 'chute 
attachment to a third-point away from it?  That  would give the e-bay the 
softest possible landing wouldn't it?  Might  take some work on harness 
lengths to keep the nose and tail section clear of  each other during recovery. 
Best, 
Bob 

----- Original Message -----
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
To:  ibelchloud at aol.com, rwjcom at comcast.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent:  Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:08:01 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject:  Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and  
Attachement

Lou,
 
Thanks for the plug! :)
 
I get around the holes not lining up by not using them anymore.  I  don't 
attach my e-bays to either section, I secure the nosecone and eject the  bay 
instead.  Since the bay is the heavier of the two, it pulls the main  out 
cleaner.
 
 



From bradmcclure at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:12:50 2010
From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:12:50 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
In-Reply-To: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W3300B9939F02213F178A8BB9420@phx.gbl>


Ken, I was wondering about the rocket that I climbed up into a tree to retrieve.  There was an identical rocket there, except for color, and so I was wondering which rocket was it?
 

-brad

 
> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:23:13 -0800
> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
> 
> What a stunning day for a February!
> 
> We got started right around noon, and the first flight was roughly 12:30.
> 
> Dave Randall was there and brought a friend. Dave brought his Patriot
> out again, and also had his Excel Plus Plus. The Patriot is just
> amazingly rugged. It just keeps going and going. The Excel was
> unfortunately grounded today for extenuating circumstances - more on
> that in a bit.
> 
> Dave Walp and Ian showed. They brought their usual suspects: Mozzie,
> Blackhawk, Cheetah - Another group of amazing flyers that just keep
> coming back for more. They brought more rockets in the box, but these
> are the staples that beg to fly.
> 
> Alex and I brought along Alex's friend Isaac. Isaac brought his Star
> Dart - a ~1996 (I think) vintage small Estes kit. We brought a box of
> stuff, and flew a ton - No Idea (a weird tube/fin combination that we
> had no idea what to name), an upscale Estes Neon, Madcow's fiberglass
> Arcas, Cheetah, an Art Applewhite Scimitar, the TARDIS (Doctor Who)
> from Squirrel Works, and a vintage Estes Rigel-3.
> 
> Brad showed up with his Initiator, and had a fantastic flight on a G.
> 
> There were some other rocketeers on the field enjoying the brilliant
> Sunday, as well as the usual contingent of R/C plane flyers.
> 
> Isaac started the day with his Star Dart showing us the wind - none at
> all. Some gusts to the southeast, but nothing too worrisome.
> 
> Alex followed with "No Idea" on an D12-5. No Idea is a scratch build,
> ~16" tall using BT56 tubing for the main. Yeah, it really jumps on
> 24mm engines. Fortunately, the large ring/fin combinations means
> pretty hefty drag, so it doesn't go out of sight.
> 
> Dave Randall put his Patriot up on an AT D reload for the first
> composite flight of the day. Like I said, that Patriot just goes, and
> comes back for more.
> 
> After that, things get a little hazy for me. Dave Randall and I had
> exchanged emails earlier regarding L1 Cert flights at 60 Acres. With
> the new Class 1 definitions, it's possible. When we arrived at the
> field today, Dave's first words were "Hi, Ken. You ready for that
> cert flight?"
> 
> I still haven't received my NAR number back from HQ, so I didn't come
> prepared to make an attempt. That didn't faze Dave at all. He
> promptly offered up the CTI 4g H skidmark that he had brought for the
> Excel. Just earlier this week, I had finished reinforcing the fillets
> on the Arcas using chopped glass and West Systems epoxy. Clearly
> serendipity was with me today! So with a little trepidation, I
> accepted Dave's offer, and spent the next 30 minutes agonizing over my
> options for the Arcas. 24, 30, or 36" chutes? 7 or 9 second delay?
> Attach the quicklink to the nose bolt, or tie a loop in the kevlar
> lower down?? There may have been other launches while I was prepping
> - I really couldn't tell you. Blow the whistle, count it down, and
> what a roar those CTI motors make. Gorgeous arcing flight to maybe
> 1500' with recovery 2' from the fence in the northwest corner. Looked
> good to me, and when I brought it back, Dave confirmed the flight.
> Time to get out the credit card - lots of fun engines are gonna be on
> the way.
> 
> I know I'm shorting several people here, but after the L1 flight, the
> rest of the afternoon is just a haze. Highlights for me include:
> - Cheetah drag race with Dave and Ian. We ended up in a tree
> (recoverable), they ended up on the next field over. Maybe the F
> engines weren't the best of choices.
> 
> - Mean Machine on an AT reload. Something about a 6' tall rocket
> screaming away.
> 
> - Brad's Initiator, on a G engine. Takes some guts to fly something
> that high at 60 Acres.
> 
> - Applewhite 29mm Scimitar (saucer) on an AT G76G. Didn't go nearly
> as high as Brad's Initiator.
> 
> - About 15 flights of an Estes #2 Skywriter. A family was out
> documenting a school project that involved timing flights using
> various engine configs.
> 
> Once more, my eternal thanks to Dave Randall for being witness to my
> L1 flight, and for going out of his way to enable it. I owe him a
> whole lot more than just a reload.
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ken
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From k2tsai at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:46:52 2010
From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:46:52 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
In-Reply-To: <SNT104-W3300B9939F02213F178A8BB9420@phx.gbl>
References: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT104-W3300B9939F02213F178A8BB9420@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7816cff1002231546k4fac8bf6p56648da917c2a989@mail.gmail.com>

Those are the Aerotech Cheetahs.  The red glitter version is the
Walps' and the gold glitter one was ours.

One of these days, we will win that drag race.  I think the next one
could be at Mansfield on G reloads.  Anyone else up for a G drag at
the March launch in Mansfield?  Maybe we should wait for FITS?  How
about both?  Is there already something scheduled for FITS? If not,
and if there's enough interest, I could take a whack at putting some
kind of guideline together to keep things reasonable.  Wouldn't want
to see Dave R. out there flying his Thumper Jr. to 20' on a G.  Just
wouldn't be sporting like.

Anyways, back to the Cheetahs.  We both got them as part of the
starter set on www.valuerockets.com.  I would highly recommend that
set for anyone graduating up from Estes.  Hard to beat the value:
Mantis, Interlock, and Cheetah all for $99.

With my PVC tweak for the Mantis, it'll support all 3 common (1/4,
3/16, 1/8) lug sizes without the time consuming chore of switching
rods. :)

Thanks again for risking your safety to help retrieve the rocket!

Cheers,
 - Ken

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ken, I was wondering about the rocket that I climbed up into a tree to
> retrieve.??There was an identical rocket there, except for color, and so I
> was wondering which rocket was it?
>
> -brad
>
>> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:23:13 -0800
>> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
>>
>> What a stunning day for a February!
>>
>> We got started right around noon, and the first flight was roughly 12:30.
>>
>> Dave Randall was there and brought a friend. Dave brought his Patriot
>> out again, and also had his Excel Plus Plus. The Patriot is just
>> amazingly rugged. It just keeps going and going. The Excel was
>> unfortunately grounded today for extenuating circumstances - more on
>> that in a bit.
>>
>> Dave Walp and Ian showed. They brought their usual suspects: Mozzie,
>> Blackhawk, Cheetah - Another group of amazing flyers that just keep
>> coming back for more. They brought more rockets in the box, but these
>> are the staples that beg to fly.
>>
>> Alex and I brought along Alex's friend Isaac. Isaac brought his Star
>> Dart - a ~1996 (I think) vintage small Estes kit. We brought a box of
>> stuff, and flew a ton - No Idea (a weird tube/fin combination that we
>> had no idea what to name), an upscale Estes Neon, Madcow's fiberglass
>> Arcas, Cheetah, an Art Applewhite Scimitar, the TARDIS (Doctor Who)
>> from Squirrel Works, and a vintage Estes Rigel-3.
>>
>> Brad showed up with his Initiator, and had a fantastic flight on a G.
>>
>> There were some other rocketeers on the field enjoying the brilliant
>> Sunday, as well as the usual contingent of R/C plane flyers.
>>
>> Isaac started the day with his Star Dart showing us the wind - none at
>> all. Some gusts to the southeast, but nothing too worrisome.
>>
>> Alex followed with "No Idea" on an D12-5. No Idea is a scratch build,
>> ~16" tall using BT56 tubing for the main. Yeah, it really jumps on
>> 24mm engines. Fortunately, the large ring/fin combinations means
>> pretty hefty drag, so it doesn't go out of sight.
>>
>> Dave Randall put his Patriot up on an AT D reload for the first
>> composite flight of the day. Like I said, that Patriot just goes, and
>> comes back for more.
>>
>> After that, things get a little hazy for me. Dave Randall and I had
>> exchanged emails earlier regarding L1 Cert flights at 60 Acres. With
>> the new Class 1 definitions, it's possible. When we arrived at the
>> field today, Dave's first words were "Hi, Ken. You ready for that
>> cert flight?"
>>
>> I still haven't received my NAR number back from HQ, so I didn't come
>> prepared to make an attempt. That didn't faze Dave at all. He
>> promptly offered up the CTI 4g H skidmark that he had brought for the
>> Excel. Just earlier this week, I had finished reinforcing the fillets
>> on the Arcas using chopped glass and West Systems epoxy. Clearly
>> serendipity was with me today! So with a little trepidation, I
>> accepted Dave's offer, and spent the next 30 minutes agonizing over my
>> options for the Arcas. 24, 30, or 36" chutes? 7 or 9 second delay?
>> Attach the quicklink to the nose bolt, or tie a loop in the kevlar
>> lower down?? There may have been other launches while I was prepping
>> - I really couldn't tell you. Blow the whistle, count it down, and
>> what a roar those CTI motors make. Gorgeous arcing flight to maybe
>> 1500' with recovery 2' from the fence in the northwest corner. Looked
>> good to me, and when I brought it back, Dave confirmed the flight.
>> Time to get out the credit card - lots of fun engines are gonna be on
>> the way.
>>
>> I know I'm shorting several people here, but after the L1 flight, the
>> rest of the afternoon is just a haze. Highlights for me include:
>> - Cheetah drag race with Dave and Ian. We ended up in a tree
>> (recoverable), they ended up on the next field over. Maybe the F
>> engines weren't the best of choices.
>>
>> - Mean Machine on an AT reload. Something about a 6' tall rocket
>> screaming away.
>>
>> - Brad's Initiator, on a G engine. Takes some guts to fly something
>> that high at 60 Acres.
>>
>> - Applewhite 29mm Scimitar (saucer) on an AT G76G. Didn't go nearly
>> as high as Brad's Initiator.
>>
>> - About 15 flights of an Estes #2 Skywriter. A family was out
>> documenting a school project that involved timing flights using
>> various engine configs.
>>
>> Once more, my eternal thanks to Dave Randall for being witness to my
>> L1 flight, and for going out of his way to enable it. I owe him a
>> whole lot more than just a reload.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Ken
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>

From bradmcclure at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 23 16:16:26 2010
From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:16:26 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
In-Reply-To: <7816cff1002231546k4fac8bf6p56648da917c2a989@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>,
	<SNT104-W3300B9939F02213F178A8BB9420@phx.gbl>,
	<7816cff1002231546k4fac8bf6p56648da917c2a989@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W221B6AE2AE3612A0655029B9410@phx.gbl>


The Cheetah looks like a nice rocket and I really liked your upgrade to the Mantis.  I'll be making the same change to mine!

 

Drag race @ FITS sounds like fun and yes I do think a loose set of rules would be beneficial.

 

-brad
 
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:46:52 -0800
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
> To: bradmcclure at hotmail.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> 
> Those are the Aerotech Cheetahs. The red glitter version is the
> Walps' and the gold glitter one was ours.
> 
> One of these days, we will win that drag race. I think the next one
> could be at Mansfield on G reloads. Anyone else up for a G drag at
> the March launch in Mansfield? Maybe we should wait for FITS? How
> about both? Is there already something scheduled for FITS? If not,
> and if there's enough interest, I could take a whack at putting some
> kind of guideline together to keep things reasonable. Wouldn't want
> to see Dave R. out there flying his Thumper Jr. to 20' on a G. Just
> wouldn't be sporting like.
> 
> Anyways, back to the Cheetahs. We both got them as part of the
> starter set on www.valuerockets.com. I would highly recommend that
> set for anyone graduating up from Estes. Hard to beat the value:
> Mantis, Interlock, and Cheetah all for $99.
> 
> With my PVC tweak for the Mantis, it'll support all 3 common (1/4,
> 3/16, 1/8) lug sizes without the time consuming chore of switching
> rods. :)
> 
> Thanks again for risking your safety to help retrieve the rocket!
> 
> Cheers,
> - Ken
> 
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Ken, I was wondering about the rocket that I climbed up into a tree to
> > retrieve.  There was an identical rocket there, except for color, and so I
> > was wondering which rocket was it?
> >
> > -brad
> >
> >> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:23:13 -0800
> >> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
> >>
> >> What a stunning day for a February!
> >>
> >> We got started right around noon, and the first flight was roughly 12:30.
> >>
> >> Dave Randall was there and brought a friend. Dave brought his Patriot
> >> out again, and also had his Excel Plus Plus. The Patriot is just
> >> amazingly rugged. It just keeps going and going. The Excel was
> >> unfortunately grounded today for extenuating circumstances - more on
> >> that in a bit.
> >>
> >> Dave Walp and Ian showed. They brought their usual suspects: Mozzie,
> >> Blackhawk, Cheetah - Another group of amazing flyers that just keep
> >> coming back for more. They brought more rockets in the box, but these
> >> are the staples that beg to fly.
> >>
> >> Alex and I brought along Alex's friend Isaac. Isaac brought his Star
> >> Dart - a ~1996 (I think) vintage small Estes kit. We brought a box of
> >> stuff, and flew a ton - No Idea (a weird tube/fin combination that we
> >> had no idea what to name), an upscale Estes Neon, Madcow's fiberglass
> >> Arcas, Cheetah, an Art Applewhite Scimitar, the TARDIS (Doctor Who)
> >> from Squirrel Works, and a vintage Estes Rigel-3.
> >>
> >> Brad showed up with his Initiator, and had a fantastic flight on a G.
> >>
> >> There were some other rocketeers on the field enjoying the brilliant
> >> Sunday, as well as the usual contingent of R/C plane flyers.
> >>
> >> Isaac started the day with his Star Dart showing us the wind - none at
> >> all. Some gusts to the southeast, but nothing too worrisome.
> >>
> >> Alex followed with "No Idea" on an D12-5. No Idea is a scratch build,
> >> ~16" tall using BT56 tubing for the main. Yeah, it really jumps on
> >> 24mm engines. Fortunately, the large ring/fin combinations means
> >> pretty hefty drag, so it doesn't go out of sight.
> >>
> >> Dave Randall put his Patriot up on an AT D reload for the first
> >> composite flight of the day. Like I said, that Patriot just goes, and
> >> comes back for more.
> >>
> >> After that, things get a little hazy for me. Dave Randall and I had
> >> exchanged emails earlier regarding L1 Cert flights at 60 Acres. With
> >> the new Class 1 definitions, it's possible. When we arrived at the
> >> field today, Dave's first words were "Hi, Ken. You ready for that
> >> cert flight?"
> >>
> >> I still haven't received my NAR number back from HQ, so I didn't come
> >> prepared to make an attempt. That didn't faze Dave at all. He
> >> promptly offered up the CTI 4g H skidmark that he had brought for the
> >> Excel. Just earlier this week, I had finished reinforcing the fillets
> >> on the Arcas using chopped glass and West Systems epoxy. Clearly
> >> serendipity was with me today! So with a little trepidation, I
> >> accepted Dave's offer, and spent the next 30 minutes agonizing over my
> >> options for the Arcas. 24, 30, or 36" chutes? 7 or 9 second delay?
> >> Attach the quicklink to the nose bolt, or tie a loop in the kevlar
> >> lower down?? There may have been other launches while I was prepping
> >> - I really couldn't tell you. Blow the whistle, count it down, and
> >> what a roar those CTI motors make. Gorgeous arcing flight to maybe
> >> 1500' with recovery 2' from the fence in the northwest corner. Looked
> >> good to me, and when I brought it back, Dave confirmed the flight.
> >> Time to get out the credit card - lots of fun engines are gonna be on
> >> the way.
> >>
> >> I know I'm shorting several people here, but after the L1 flight, the
> >> rest of the afternoon is just a haze. Highlights for me include:
> >> - Cheetah drag race with Dave and Ian. We ended up in a tree
> >> (recoverable), they ended up on the next field over. Maybe the F
> >> engines weren't the best of choices.
> >>
> >> - Mean Machine on an AT reload. Something about a 6' tall rocket
> >> screaming away.
> >>
> >> - Brad's Initiator, on a G engine. Takes some guts to fly something
> >> that high at 60 Acres.
> >>
> >> - Applewhite 29mm Scimitar (saucer) on an AT G76G. Didn't go nearly
> >> as high as Brad's Initiator.
> >>
> >> - About 15 flights of an Estes #2 Skywriter. A family was out
> >> documenting a school project that involved timing flights using
> >> various engine configs.
> >>
> >> Once more, my eternal thanks to Dave Randall for being witness to my
> >> L1 flight, and for going out of his way to enable it. I owe him a
> >> whole lot more than just a reload.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> - Ken
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
 		 	   		  

From fred.azinger at intel.com  Tue Feb 23 16:17:21 2010
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:17:21 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
In-Reply-To: <7816cff1002231546k4fac8bf6p56648da917c2a989@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7816cff1002211923r20013837p24633096ba5ad730@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT104-W3300B9939F02213F178A8BB9420@phx.gbl>
	<7816cff1002231546k4fac8bf6p56648da917c2a989@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB82A134F3@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

Twin Cheetahs in the same tree -- sounds like a great safari ;-) 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Ken Tsai
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:47 PM
To: Brad McClure
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap

Those are the Aerotech Cheetahs.  The red glitter version is the
Walps' and the gold glitter one was ours.

One of these days, we will win that drag race.  I think the next one
could be at Mansfield on G reloads.  Anyone else up for a G drag at
the March launch in Mansfield?  Maybe we should wait for FITS?  How
about both?  Is there already something scheduled for FITS? If not,
and if there's enough interest, I could take a whack at putting some
kind of guideline together to keep things reasonable.  Wouldn't want
to see Dave R. out there flying his Thumper Jr. to 20' on a G.  Just
wouldn't be sporting like.

Anyways, back to the Cheetahs.  We both got them as part of the
starter set on www.valuerockets.com.  I would highly recommend that
set for anyone graduating up from Estes.  Hard to beat the value:
Mantis, Interlock, and Cheetah all for $99.

With my PVC tweak for the Mantis, it'll support all 3 common (1/4,
3/16, 1/8) lug sizes without the time consuming chore of switching
rods. :)

Thanks again for risking your safety to help retrieve the rocket!

Cheers,
 - Ken

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ken, I was wondering about the rocket that I climbed up into a tree to
> retrieve.??There was an identical rocket there, except for color, and so I
> was wondering which rocket was it?
>
> -brad
>
>> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:23:13 -0800
>> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres Recap
>>
>> What a stunning day for a February!
>>
>> We got started right around noon, and the first flight was roughly 12:30.
>>
>> Dave Randall was there and brought a friend. Dave brought his Patriot
>> out again, and also had his Excel Plus Plus. The Patriot is just
>> amazingly rugged. It just keeps going and going. The Excel was
>> unfortunately grounded today for extenuating circumstances - more on
>> that in a bit.
>>
>> Dave Walp and Ian showed. They brought their usual suspects: Mozzie,
>> Blackhawk, Cheetah - Another group of amazing flyers that just keep
>> coming back for more. They brought more rockets in the box, but these
>> are the staples that beg to fly.
>>
>> Alex and I brought along Alex's friend Isaac. Isaac brought his Star
>> Dart - a ~1996 (I think) vintage small Estes kit. We brought a box of
>> stuff, and flew a ton - No Idea (a weird tube/fin combination that we
>> had no idea what to name), an upscale Estes Neon, Madcow's fiberglass
>> Arcas, Cheetah, an Art Applewhite Scimitar, the TARDIS (Doctor Who)
>> from Squirrel Works, and a vintage Estes Rigel-3.
>>
>> Brad showed up with his Initiator, and had a fantastic flight on a G.
>>
>> There were some other rocketeers on the field enjoying the brilliant
>> Sunday, as well as the usual contingent of R/C plane flyers.
>>
>> Isaac started the day with his Star Dart showing us the wind - none at
>> all. Some gusts to the southeast, but nothing too worrisome.
>>
>> Alex followed with "No Idea" on an D12-5. No Idea is a scratch build,
>> ~16" tall using BT56 tubing for the main. Yeah, it really jumps on
>> 24mm engines. Fortunately, the large ring/fin combinations means
>> pretty hefty drag, so it doesn't go out of sight.
>>
>> Dave Randall put his Patriot up on an AT D reload for the first
>> composite flight of the day. Like I said, that Patriot just goes, and
>> comes back for more.
>>
>> After that, things get a little hazy for me. Dave Randall and I had
>> exchanged emails earlier regarding L1 Cert flights at 60 Acres. With
>> the new Class 1 definitions, it's possible. When we arrived at the
>> field today, Dave's first words were "Hi, Ken. You ready for that
>> cert flight?"
>>
>> I still haven't received my NAR number back from HQ, so I didn't come
>> prepared to make an attempt. That didn't faze Dave at all. He
>> promptly offered up the CTI 4g H skidmark that he had brought for the
>> Excel. Just earlier this week, I had finished reinforcing the fillets
>> on the Arcas using chopped glass and West Systems epoxy. Clearly
>> serendipity was with me today! So with a little trepidation, I
>> accepted Dave's offer, and spent the next 30 minutes agonizing over my
>> options for the Arcas. 24, 30, or 36" chutes? 7 or 9 second delay?
>> Attach the quicklink to the nose bolt, or tie a loop in the kevlar
>> lower down?? There may have been other launches while I was prepping
>> - I really couldn't tell you. Blow the whistle, count it down, and
>> what a roar those CTI motors make. Gorgeous arcing flight to maybe
>> 1500' with recovery 2' from the fence in the northwest corner. Looked
>> good to me, and when I brought it back, Dave confirmed the flight.
>> Time to get out the credit card - lots of fun engines are gonna be on
>> the way.
>>
>> I know I'm shorting several people here, but after the L1 flight, the
>> rest of the afternoon is just a haze. Highlights for me include:
>> - Cheetah drag race with Dave and Ian. We ended up in a tree
>> (recoverable), they ended up on the next field over. Maybe the F
>> engines weren't the best of choices.
>>
>> - Mean Machine on an AT reload. Something about a 6' tall rocket
>> screaming away.
>>
>> - Brad's Initiator, on a G engine. Takes some guts to fly something
>> that high at 60 Acres.
>>
>> - Applewhite 29mm Scimitar (saucer) on an AT G76G. Didn't go nearly
>> as high as Brad's Initiator.
>>
>> - About 15 flights of an Estes #2 Skywriter. A family was out
>> documenting a school project that involved timing flights using
>> various engine configs.
>>
>> Once more, my eternal thanks to Dave Randall for being witness to my
>> L1 flight, and for going out of his way to enable it. I owe him a
>> whole lot more than just a reload.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Ken
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 17:46:24 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:46:24 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>	<606551.75524.qm@web112907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<855165.30378.qm@web112903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E596CBA36@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com><45717541002221250q1958d6c4j94068b88bdc54fee@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B838D39.4080901@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <74C19032794D4EE3A748F0EA3EF34D47@LaptopKrausert>

I remember the WTF-OS variable. That's an exponential. Certainly has a 
trigger point, especially as sub-t and sub-v are held consitent with OS.

You also raised ducking. The Quack factor can occur if geometric and 
trigonomentry conditions exist. Comes with the exponent GOOTW (Get out of 
the way). Then Quack (or Duck) is active positive.

Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Tarr" <stevet19759 at comcast.net>
To: "Joe Bevier" <joebevier at gmail.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?


> Don't forget the very important WTF-OS delay.
> A long WTF - OS interval is generally associated with the rocket doing
> especially interesting manuevers in flight, such as slowly turning over 
> before the second stage motor ignites.  A short WTF - OS delay is 
> associated with much more exciting manuevers, especially those at lower 
> altitude and those that trigger the duck response.
>
> -ST
>
> Joe Bevier wrote:
>> Brilliant Robert and Robert.
>>
>> OS! is the correct answer for weekday use of this equation. . However
>> the MBRSMNT factor must be added to weekend use in calculating flight
>> stress.  When everyone's watching it logarithmically increases the
>>  MBRSMNT/sec/sec.  Therefore:
>>
>>                                                       Mu(sub t)^2
>> OS =(MBRSMNT/sec/sec)Mu(sub v) ---------------
>>                                                      (HAI / cos^3 )
>>
>> Who knew rocket science could be so much fun?
>> -Joe
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Krausert, Robert 
>> <robert.krausert at intel.com
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did I get the answer right?
>>>
>>>                 Mu(sub t)^2
>>> OS = Mu(sub v) ---------------
>>>                (HAI / cos^3 )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 9:15 AM
>>> To: Robert Braibish; Robert Killen; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT}Re: What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>>
>>> The lesser known Munch number is also a significant threshold in rocket
>>> design and construction.  The Munch number (Mu) is a confusing variable 
>>> to
>>> understand because it can represent both a time and a speed. Mu (sub t)
>>> represents the time into a rocket flight that the builder realizes 
>>> he/she
>>> forgot a critical element in a successful flight (like powering-up an
>>> altimeter or setting the Mach delay or letting the glue dry on the 
>>> launch
>>> lug).  Mu (sub v) represents the speed at which the aforementioned 
>>> omission,
>>> a structural error, or some other defect causes the rocket to shred and
>>> litter the sky or careen out of control to eventually impact mother 
>>> earth at
>>> full thrust.  Both instances of the Munch number are identified when the
>>> rocket owner adopts a pose such as this.
>>>
>>> Similar to the Much number, there is the Home-Alone Index  The subtle
>>> differences between the HAI and Mu are a matter of timing and age of the
>>> rocket builder.
>>>
>>>
>>> R. Braibish
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Robert Braibish <cpovercg at rocketmail.com>
>>> To: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 7:13:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>>
>>> I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but basically there is a 
>>> dangerous
>>> zone (trans-sonic speed).
>>> In a nut shell, sound is energy.
>>> As an object approaches the speed of sound, the energy waves begin to 
>>> "pile
>>> up" in front of the object (the object making the sound is beginning to
>>> catch up to the sounds it created).
>>> This "pile up" of sound energy creates a LOT of turbulence because the 
>>> drag
>>> increases at different rates relative to the increase in speed in the
>>> trans-sonic zone.
>>>
>>> Perhaps a conceptual analogy would be a wheel out of alignment.  At slow
>>> speeds the mis-alignment is not very noticeable, as your speed 
>>> increases,
>>> the shake becomes pronounced but, at a certain yet higher speed it 
>>> begins to
>>> subside again. The causes of the shaking with a mis-aligned wheel are 
>>> quite
>>> different from the shock waves for trans-sonic travel but like the 
>>> vehicle,
>>> once an object has cleared Mach, the shock wave has passed and does not
>>> produce the turbulence.
>>>
>>> R. Braibish
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Robert Killen <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Sent: Sun, February 21, 2010 6:26:36 PM
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another 
>>> thread
>>> raised a question for me.  Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so 
>>> this
>>> is purely curiosity on my part.
>>> Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around 
>>> Mach?
>>>  Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
>>> Cheers!   Robert
>>>
>>> Robert KillenBranding
>>> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From bradmcclure at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:26:44 2010
From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:26:44 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 acres - drag races, altitude cometitions, etc
Message-ID: <SNT104-W482FB31C558E911566901CB9410@phx.gbl>


I was wondering if there are any plans to conduct drag races & altitude competitions @ 60 acres before the soccer season starts.  

Over the last couple of weeks I've been talking with some co-workers about holding an event.  Our conversations have focused on making the competitions appropriate for the 60 acres park and being restrictive enough that they would be suitable for a wide range of participants.

With the above concerns in mind we have tentativelly agreed on the following:


Max motor diameter 18mm
All participant rockets to carry an altimeter.
Does this sound like something you would be interested in doing?

-brad
 		 	   		  

From t.j.doll at att.net  Tue Feb 23 19:00:06 2010
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 03:00:06 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Hobbylinc?
Message-ID: <022420100300.4495.4B849636000D6E790000118F22230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

>Has anybody had any dealings with Hobblinc.com for E F or G motors?  They seem 
>to have the best prices but I have never deal with them.  Looking for some 
>motors for TARC  teams.
>Thanks
>J C Worthen

I've done lots of business with Hobbylinc - including G AeroTech reloads - no problems or complaints.  The closest thing to a complaint is I ordered some G71 reloads and they've been backordered forever (ok, for several months), but I suspect the problem is AeroTech, not HobbyLinc.  As with any rocket motors, shipping has to be ground so it's a bit slow, but no one is going to risk air shipping rocket motors.

BTW, if you've not ordered from Hobbylinc shoot me a PM.  They give a discount for refering a 'new customer' and I don't mind taking credit :-)

Tim

From k2tsai at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 19:10:42 2010
From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:10:42 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 acres - drag races, altitude cometitions, etc
In-Reply-To: <SNT104-W482FB31C558E911566901CB9410@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT104-W482FB31C558E911566901CB9410@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7816cff1002231910p757ba7a9p30320768d0016c92@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds interesting.  A couple random thoughts:

1) 18mm D and E motors exist, and can easily take a rocket into
unrecoverable territory.  May want to limit by impulse rather than
size.

2) Altimeters will significantly reduce the audience.

3) Instead of absolute altitude, perhaps target altitude would be more
appropriate for the field.  Closest to 1000' without going over?  How
about putting a big target out there and playing lawn darts with
rockets? Lawn dart recovery is not allowed.

As long as we're out burning motors, I'm game. Count me in.

 - Ken

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if there are any plans to conduct drag races & altitude competitions @ 60 acres before the soccer season starts.
>
> Over the last couple of weeks I've been talking with some co-workers about holding an event. ?Our conversations have focused on making the competitions appropriate for the 60 acres park and being restrictive enough that they would be suitable for a wide range of participants.
>
> With the above concerns in mind we have tentativelly agreed on the following:
>
>
> Max motor diameter 18mm
> All participant rockets to carry an altimeter.
> Does this sound like something you would be interested in doing?
>
> -brad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From bradmcclure at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 23 19:26:36 2010
From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:26:36 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 acres - drag races, altitude cometitions, etc
In-Reply-To: <7816cff1002231910p757ba7a9p30320768d0016c92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT104-W482FB31C558E911566901CB9410@phx.gbl>,
	<7816cff1002231910p757ba7a9p30320768d0016c92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W65EA663FB837855F94839BB9410@phx.gbl>


Comments inline [bradmc]
 
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:10:42 -0800
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 acres - drag races, altitude cometitions, etc
> From: k2tsai at gmail.com
> To: bradmcclure at hotmail.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> 
> Sounds interesting. A couple random thoughts:
> 
> 1) 18mm D and E motors exist, and can easily take a rocket into
> unrecoverable territory. May want to limit by impulse rather than
> size.  [bradmc] Good point, all prior conversations had not taken into consideration 18mm composit motors
> 
> 2) Altimeters will significantly reduce the audience.  [bradmc]  In spite of loosing one last weekend I would be willing to share.
> 
> 3) Instead of absolute altitude, perhaps target altitude would be more
> appropriate for the field. Closest to 1000' without going over? How
> about putting a big target out there and playing lawn darts with
> rockets? Lawn dart recovery is not allowed.  [bradmc]  Closest to a set altitude and closest to the Launch Pad would also be great fun.
> 
> As long as we're out burning motors, I'm game. Count me in.  [bradmc]  Sounds good  :-)
> 
> - Ken
> 
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Brad McClure <bradmcclure at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering if there are any plans to conduct drag races & altitude competitions @ 60 acres before the soccer season starts.
> >
> > Over the last couple of weeks I've been talking with some co-workers about holding an event.  Our conversations have focused on making the competitions appropriate for the 60 acres park and being restrictive enough that they would be suitable for a wide range of participants.
> >
> > With the above concerns in mind we have tentativelly agreed on the following:
> >
> >
> > Max motor diameter 18mm
> > All participant rockets to carry an altimeter.
> > Does this sound like something you would be interested in doing?
> >
> > -brad
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
 		 	   		  

From t.j.doll at att.net  Tue Feb 23 20:02:05 2010
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:02:05 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
Message-ID: <022420100402.1609.4B84A4BD000217BE0000064922243322829B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

Some of this will be repetitive of what's already been written, but I have a Masters Degree in this stuff, so I might as well use it 

Sound waves are very simply pressure disturbances moving through the air.  As something like an airplane or rocket moves through the air, those disturbances move through the air (at the speed of sound), and basically tell the air in front of the airplane or rocket to get out of the way.  Hence that nice airflow you get over a wing at subsonic speeds - the air 'knows' the wing is coming and starts moving before the wing gets there.

As a rocket (or airplane) approaches the speed of sound, several things happen.  First, the air no longer gets that signal that something is coming in time do anything about it - it can't move in anticipation of the coming body.  Second, all those pressure disturbances moving through the air from the approaching rocket start stacking up in front of the rocket.  This builds up into a pressure wave in front of the near sonic rocket.  Now, normally, the drag on something moving through the air is proportional to the frontal area x the velocity squared x the drag coefficient.  The drag coefficient is (normally) pretty close to a constant, frontal area is constant, so the only variable would be the speed squared.  BUT, near the speed of sound, the drag coefficient (Cd) goes up sharply due to those pressure waves stacking up in front of the rocket, the drag sharply increases well in excess of the velocity squared, so it takes a LOT of thrust to get through the 'sound barrier".  Now, assuming the rocket continues to accelerate, those pressure waves turn in to what is known as a 'shock wave' - which is what creates the sonic boom.  Once past that transonic region, the Cd will return to a number somewhat higher but similar to the subsonic value, and the drag increase with speed returns to what would be expected due to the 'velocity squared'.

The other aspect is the pressure distribution around the rocket.  In a simple sense, subsonic the center of pressure of a wing (fin) is at the "quarter cord" point - 25% of the mean cord (from the leading edge).  Supersonic, it's at 50% of the mean cord.  That means for something like an airplane, control while transonic is tricky.  But for a rocket, while moving the CP aft is normally good, moving it around dynamically can do funny things.  Also, trailing edge flaps - very effective sub-sonic - become ineffective supersonic since the approaching air doesn't know about the flap.  Airplanes designed to be supersonic generally move the entire tail surface, not just trailing edge flap.  

Tim

From holdencurrency at comcast.net  Tue Feb 23 20:14:41 2010
From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:14:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Update.
In-Reply-To: <1511539668.6900361266980803264.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <131502401.6924441266984881463.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



Hi Everyone! 



??? Well were off to a good start this year. I've been stocking up on kits From Madcow &?Estes. Our store currently has over 150 rocket kits in stock including some educational packs! I'm?planning to?be at the store on Friday night from 5pm - 7pm and Saturday From 3PM-6PM. I've also put up a cork board so people can post?pictures of their finished projects! PML is starting to get low so that will probably be my next rocketry order.? If anyone is looking for specific kits please let me know. If I don't have it i n stock ?I may be able to order it. My store Address, & Directions can be found on my website at www.holdenshobbies.com ? 



?? Speaking of my websites ( www.holdencurrency.com / www.holdenshobbies.com ).?They were?hacked by somone in china? I've got all the malicious script (Wan't Harmful) removed, Fixed the problem?&?have?been?cleared by google as safe. 



Best Regards, 

Chris Holden 

253-961-3095

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 20:33:40 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:33:40 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Update.
In-Reply-To: <131502401.6924441266984881463.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1511539668.6900361266980803264.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<131502401.6924441266984881463.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002232033u5a0f38d0v53b7c6d93564e8a9@mail.gmail.com>

Do you have the new J510W AeroTech RMS?-38/1320 White Lightning? Motor and
casing?


On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Chris Holden <holdencurrency at comcast.net>wrote:

>
>
> Hi Everyone!
>
>
>
>     Well were off to a good start this year. I've been stocking up on kits
> From Madcow & Estes. Our store currently has over 150 rocket kits in stock
> including some educational packs! I'm planning to be at the store on Friday
> night from 5pm - 7pm and Saturday From 3PM-6PM. I've also put up a cork
> board so people can post pictures of their finished projects! PML is
> starting to get low so that will probably be my next rocketry order.  If
> anyone is looking for specific kits please let me know. If I don't have it i
> n stock  I may be able to order it. My store Address, & Directions can be
> found on my website at www.holdenshobbies.com
>
>
>
>    Speaking of my websites ( www.holdencurrency.com /
> www.holdenshobbies.com ). They were hacked by somone in china? I've got
> all the malicious script (Wan't Harmful) removed, Fixed the
> problem & have been cleared by google as safe.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Chris Holden
>
> 253-961-3095
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From appusher at q.com  Tue Feb 23 22:51:42 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 06:51:42 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Update.
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002232033u5a0f38d0v53b7c6d93564e8a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1511539668.6900361266980803264.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>,
	<131502401.6924441266984881463.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>,
	<e83b26701002232033u5a0f38d0v53b7c6d93564e8a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL111-W632DCBA4E4534B1725A3ADDC410@phx.gbl>


Chris,

 

We have both the case and the reload.

We'll be at the March and April Mansfield launches.

 

Bill at PSP

 

www.pugetsoundpropulsion.com

don't forget to hit refresh when you visit to get the latest updates











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:33:40 -0800
> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> To: holdencurrency at comcast.net
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Update.
> 
> Do you have the new J510W AeroTech RMS?-38/1320 White Lightning? Motor and
> casing?
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Chris Holden <holdencurrency at comcast.net>wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Hi Everyone!
> >
> >
> >
> > Well were off to a good start this year. I've been stocking up on kits
> > From Madcow & Estes. Our store currently has over 150 rocket kits in stock
> > including some educational packs! I'm planning to be at the store on Friday
> > night from 5pm - 7pm and Saturday From 3PM-6PM. I've also put up a cork
> > board so people can post pictures of their finished projects! PML is
> > starting to get low so that will probably be my next rocketry order. If
> > anyone is looking for specific kits please let me know. If I don't have it i
> > n stock I may be able to order it. My store Address, & Directions can be
> > found on my website at www.holdenshobbies.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Speaking of my websites ( www.holdencurrency.com /
> > www.holdenshobbies.com ). They were hacked by somone in china? I've got
> > all the malicious script (Wan't Harmful) removed, Fixed the
> > problem & have been cleared by google as safe.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Chris Holden
> >
> > 253-961-3095
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From sb at berfield.com  Wed Feb 24 07:30:13 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:30:13 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Machinists out there?
Message-ID: <001801cab566$42d7c8d0$c8875a70$@com>

Could anyone with the ability to machine a part (specifically a threaded
retaining ring) email me off list? 


From appusher at q.com  Wed Feb 24 12:44:39 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:44:39 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Hobbylinc?
In-Reply-To: <022420100300.4495.4B849636000D6E790000118F22230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
References: <022420100300.4495.4B849636000D6E790000118F22230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
Message-ID: <COL111-W2117EEA3A208325AB63BF8DC410@phx.gbl>


Tim,

You are correct that the G71R is an Aerotech issue.  They currently and have been for some time on Production Hold.

I will have to touch base with Diane at Aerotech to verify the reason but it seems to me it has to do with something about material availability.

 

Bill at PSP











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: t.j.doll at att.net
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 03:00:06 +0000
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Hobbylinc?
> 
> >Has anybody had any dealings with Hobblinc.com for E F or G motors? They seem 
> >to have the best prices but I have never deal with them. Looking for some 
> >motors for TARC teams.
> >Thanks
> >J C Worthen
> 
> I've done lots of business with Hobbylinc - including G AeroTech reloads - no problems or complaints. The closest thing to a complaint is I ordered some G71 reloads and they've been backordered forever (ok, for several months), but I suspect the problem is AeroTech, not HobbyLinc. As with any rocket motors, shipping has to be ground so it's a bit slow, but no one is going to risk air shipping rocket motors.
> 
> BTW, if you've not ordered from Hobbylinc shoot me a PM. They give a discount for refering a 'new customer' and I don't mind taking credit :-)
> 
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 18:40:44 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:40:44 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <84F564A235CE421483E364838D739614@LaptopKrausert>

Easy answer Robert. At mach I get to watch my fins and fiberglass getting 
ripped off. Rocket became confetti. And Joe Bevier reminding me that you 
don't glass Quantum tube. ;-)

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:26 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?


Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread 
raised a question for me. Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this 
is purely curiosity on my part.
Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach? 
Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
Cheers! Robert

Robert KillenBranding 
Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270




_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From fred.azinger at intel.com  Thu Feb 25 10:39:07 2010
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:39:07 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <84F564A235CE421483E364838D739614@LaptopKrausert>
References: <452279.5574.qm@web45316.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<84F564A235CE421483E364838D739614@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB82A13DA4@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

Robert....just another rocketeer who thought the warning not to go transonic with QT was for the other guys.... ;-)

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:41 PM
To: Robert Killen; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?

Easy answer Robert. At mach I get to watch my fins and fiberglass getting 
ripped off. Rocket became confetti. And Joe Bevier reminding me that you 
don't glass Quantum tube. ;-)

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:26 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?


Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread 
raised a question for me. Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this 
is purely curiosity on my part.
Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach? 
Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
Cheers! Robert

Robert KillenBranding 
Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270




_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Thu Feb 25 11:53:56 2010
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:53:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
Message-ID: <12618566.1267127636826.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Robert, my understanding is that when air is still compressible, the pressure wave mentioned that forms prior to a shock wave will create high and low pressure zones along the airframe and these pressure zones propagate down in proportion to speed within the transonic region of travel.  Once supersonic, the low pressure pocket drops behind the rocket thus reducing the stresses on the airframe.  I have observed on many occasions a wiggle when rockets transition to supersonic and this is believed to be because the low pressure zone aligns with the fins thus causing momentary loss of steering.  Pure assumption / speculation on my part based on fluid dynamic models I've seen that are a challenge to understand.  I'm hoping my reply, if incorrect, will prompt for better clarity from others.  /Steve 

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
>To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:26 PM
>Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>
>
>Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread 
>raised a question for me. Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this 
>is purely curiosity on my part.
>Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach? 
>Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
>Cheers! Robert
>
>Robert KillenBranding 
>Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From vonrang at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 25 12:58:02 2010
From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:58:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
Message-ID: <305492.86390.qm@web52208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


"a wiggle when rockets transition to supersonic and this is believed to be because the low pressure zone aligns with the fins thus causing momentary loss of steering."
?
This sounds reasonable to me and?reminds me of its minor resemblance to the low pressure effects of cavitation on a prop blade, in that the blade momentarily has nothing to push against.

Sam Grado
TRA L2

"If you're going to build it, build it from scratch"!

sales at pvconly.com
http://www.pvconly.com
http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html
http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets

--- On Thu, 2/25/10, steve-c at ix.netcom.com <steve-c at ix.netcom.com> wrote:


From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
To: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>, "rockets at rocketsnw.com" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Thursday, February 25, 2010, 1:53 PM


Hi Robert, my understanding is that when air is still compressible, the pressure wave mentioned that forms prior to a shock wave will create high and low pressure zones along the airframe and these pressure zones propagate down in proportion to speed within the transonic region of travel.? Once supersonic, the low pressure pocket drops behind the rocket thus reducing the stresses on the airframe.? I have observed on many occasions a wiggle when rockets transition to supersonic and this is believed to be because the low pressure zone aligns with the fins thus causing momentary loss of steering.? Pure assumption / speculation on my part based on fluid dynamic models I've seen that are a challenge to understand.? I'm hoping my reply, if incorrect, will prompt for better clarity from others.? /Steve 

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Robert Killen" <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
>To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:26 PM
>Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
>
>
>Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting through Mach on another thread 
>raised a question for me. Understand, I'm just a hobby guy for now so this 
>is purely curiosity on my part.
>Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or around Mach? 
>Does sound itself create friction or turbulence or...?
>Cheers! Robert
>
>Robert KillenBranding 
>Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>? 
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>? 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      

From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Thu Feb 25 16:46:44 2010
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:46:44 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Update.......... Sunriver Update.......
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP80AA3A92653DF7C7943B45F43F0@phx.gbl>

Greetings all,
Well, next week is March, so you know what that means,......
March Madness.
A few notes from Aerotech:
AeroTech Announces 38mm Special RMS Hardware Promotion

AeroTech Consumer Aerospace is announcing an exciting offer in its 38mm
Reloadable Motor System? (RMS?) hardware line, the ?38mm Special? RMS
hardware promotion. This promotion is intended to allow the inexpensive
purchase of a popular range of 38mm RMS hardware by all high-power rocketry
consumers, especially those new to the hobby.

The 38mm Special RMS hardware promotion consists of an AeroTech 38/360 motor
casing and a 38mm aft closure, along with the AeroTech 38mm Reload Adapter
System? (RAS?). The Reload Adapter System includes a ?floating? forward
closure, a retaining ring and two case spacers. The six-piece 38mm Special
Hardware set will allow customers to fly 16 AeroTech 38mm RMS reload kits
ranging from ?G? to ?I? class, that are normally intended to fit three
different length 38mm RMS motors. These reload kits vary in total impulse
from 109 to 360 newton-seconds. A uncertified consumer can fly ?G? motor
power using the 38mm Special hardware set, and then certify Level 1 with
their choice of a dozen ?H? & ?I? AeroTech reloads.

The manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) for the 38mm Special is
only $59.99, a savings of $48.00 over the MSRP of the individual components,
and $119.00 in savings when you consider the equivalent added utility of the
Reload Adapter System.

This promotion is for a limited time while supplies last.

ALSO:

It?s that time of year again! RCS announces the 2010 Spring Sale on its AeroTechTM High Power RMSTM reload kits. We are offering special pricing on THREE spectacular reload kits for the sole purpose of certification flights. They are:
Certification Level	Description		Special Retail Price
Level 1 				H123W-M		$  9.99 (50% off MSRP) 
Level 2 				J350W-M 		$24.99 (50% off MSRP) 
Level 3				 M1297W-P		$179.99 (25% off MSRP)

These reload kits will be clearly marked for certification flights ONLY

So, what else, well, we are going to have two sales this month. Still working on the details, but some special closeouts, and some interesting items.
If you have any questions, please let us know
Thanks
Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager
 
Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707
Ph. 541-598-4406  Fax 541-593-5207
 
Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world.




From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 17:22:50 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:22:50 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP Renewal - Misleading Insert
Message-ID: <548D7B3ACB1D4228AB813F9C18C8F380@LaptopKrausert>

Just got my renewal details. Application, finger printing forms, and brochures. One included document covered AFT ruling on APCP. The document stated that it was still classified as an explosive under both AFT and homeland security. The document was dated 2006. Why did they include? Guessing that they'll scare and hook those that might not be aware of the ruling change. Tempted to scan it and send to TRA HQ as information. The document was a certain, "Boo Hisss!" Oh well. I'm saying goodbye to my LEUP. Sure hope they never ask for paperwork. Because those were BBQ's months ago. 

Goodbye LEUP! Rest in peace, or burn in [bleep!].

Cheers,
Robert

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Thu Feb 25 19:10:55 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP Renewal - Misleading Insert
In-Reply-To: <548D7B3ACB1D4228AB813F9C18C8F380@LaptopKrausert>
References: <548D7B3ACB1D4228AB813F9C18C8F380@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <72e796b00deca2a83bcc15882e9507ce.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com>

My belfry has been BATFree for several years.  :)

And as verification: I have no official certificate to prove it!

By all means forward a copy of the offending document to TRA HQ.  Pretty
pathetic the big bad wolf would include such a thing regardless whether it
was accidental or intentional.
+McG+


> Just got my renewal details. Application, finger printing forms, and
> brochures. One included document covered AFT ruling on APCP. The document
> stated that it was still classified as an explosive under both AFT and
> homeland security. The document was dated 2006. Why did they include?
> Guessing that they'll scare and hook those that might not be aware of the
> ruling change. Tempted to scan it and send to TRA HQ as information. The
> document was a certain, "Boo Hisss!" Oh well. I'm saying goodbye to my
> LEUP. Sure hope they never ask for paperwork. Because those were BBQ's
> months ago.
>
> Goodbye LEUP! Rest in peace, or burn in [bleep!].
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From Simpsonclark at aol.com  Fri Feb 26 00:21:49 2010
From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 03:21:49 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  ...and why?
Message-ID: <f08.6a25bd1d.38b8de9d@aol.com>


Steve-  The wobble you have observed is the harmonic oscillation that  we 
are taking about.  The problem with transonic stability is less the  absolute 
value of the pressures than the asymmetrical aspects, which are many,  
varied, and largely beyond amateur reckoning, although your thought that  the 
fins become less effective, at least relative to the other forces acting on  
the rocket, is a leading contender.  Big problems arise because harmonic  
oscillations may eventually (like in a second or two) cause the rocket to 
rotate  off-axis to the point it is going sidewise, which is not good at 700+ 
mph.   Others have mentioned fin loss.  Flutter in fins, which may be in part  
related to transonic flow but may also be unrelated, is a separate issue  
normally related to the nature of the dynamics of fin flexing as they do their 
 intended job of reacting against airflow to keep the rocket going  
straight.  Fin flutter is also prone to harmonic oscillation, but the  oscillations 
are controlled by the elastic characteristics of the fin and can  occur at 
any particular speed and may occur, dampen out and then reoccur at  another 
critical speed.  Pressure, in an absolute sense, is not actually a  big 
deal.  The forces acting against the rocket after mach 1 continue to  increase 
roughly by the square of the velocity, impeding the ability of the  rocket to 
accelerate, but not in itself causing stability problems, hence the  
admonition to push through mach 1 quickly.  Similarly, simple  drag force does not 
rip off very many fins, it is the harmonic vibration  that "whips" them 
off.  I leave it to Mr. Doll to further clarify, as he  has a better knowledge 
of the engineering than do I.
-Robert
 
 
In a message dated 2/25/2010 11:54:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
steve-c at ix.netcom.com writes:

Hi  Robert, my understanding is that when air is still compressible, the 
pressure  wave mentioned that forms prior to a shock wave will create high and 
low  pressure zones along the airframe and these pressure zones propagate 
down in  proportion to speed within the transonic region of travel.  Once  
supersonic, the low pressure pocket drops behind the rocket thus reducing the  
stresses on the airframe.  I have observed on many occasions a wiggle  when 
rockets transition to supersonic and this is believed to be because the  
low pressure zone aligns with the fins thus causing momentary loss of  
steering.  Pure assumption / speculation on my part based on fluid  dynamic models 
I've seen that are a challenge to understand.  I'm hoping  my reply, if 
incorrect, will prompt for better clarity from others.   /Steve 

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Robert Killen"  <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
>To:  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:26  PM
>Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and  why?
>
>
>Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting  through Mach on another 
thread 
>raised a question for me. Understand,  I'm just a hobby guy for now so 
this 
>is purely curiosity on my  part.
>Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or  around 
Mach? 
>Does sound itself create friction or turbulence  or...?
>Cheers! Robert
>
>Robert KillenBranding  
>Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com
541.280.5270
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets  mailing  list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets  mailing  list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing  list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



From robert.killen at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 26 01:05:57 2010
From: robert.killen at yahoo.com (Robert Killen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:05:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach?  Many thanks!
In-Reply-To: <f08.6a25bd1d.38b8de9d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <269313.45358.qm@web45309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi everyone. ?Thanks so much for the excellent responses to my question! ?Some of you REALLY know your stuff. ?And others of you REALLY enjoy your humor.
I'd especially like to thank t.j.doll for using his Masters Degree gray matter and providing a response that put it all together very well for me. ?In case you didn't read it, I copied it below. ?I'd also advocate having this discussion compiled in some form and presented to the NWR web team as an article for the "School of Rocketry" section.
Again, thank everyone!

Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270?Some of this will be repetitive of what's already been written, but I have a Masters Degree in this stuff, so I might as well use it?

Sound waves?are very simply pressure disturbances moving through the air.? As something like an airplane or rocket moves through the air, those disturbances move through the air (at the?speed of sound), and basically tell the air in front of the airplane or rocket to get out of the way.? Hence that nice airflow you get over a wing at subsonic speeds - the air 'knows' the wing is coming and starts moving before the wing gets there.

As a rocket (or airplane) approaches the speed of sound, several things happen.? First, the air no longer gets that signal that something is coming in time do anything about it - it can't move in anticipation of the coming body.? Second, all those pressure disturbances moving through the air from the approaching rocket start stacking up in front of the rocket.? This builds up into a pressure wave in front of the near sonic rocket.? Now, normally, the drag on something moving through the air is proportional to the frontal area x the velocity squared x the drag coefficient.? The drag coefficient is (normally) pretty close to a constant, frontal area is constant, so the only variable would be the speed squared.? BUT, near the speed of sound, the drag coefficient (Cd) goes up sharply due to those pressure waves stacking up in front of the rocket, the drag sharply increases well in excess of the velocity squared, so it takes a LOT of thrust to get
 through the 'sound barrier".? Now
, assuming the rocket continues to accelerate, those pressure waves turn in to what is known as a 'shock wave' - which is what creates the?sonic boom.? Once past that transonic region, the Cd will return to a number somewhat higher but similar to the subsonic value, and the drag increase with speed returns to what would be expected due to the 'velocity squared'.

The other aspect is the pressure distribution around the rocket.? In a simple sense, subsonic the center of pressure of a wing (fin) is at the "quarter cord" point - 25% of the mean cord (from the leading edge).? Supersonic, it's at 50% of the mean cord.? That means for something like an airplane, control while transonic is tricky.? But for a rocket, while moving the CP aft is normally good, moving it around dynamically can do funny things.? Also,?trailing edge flaps?- very effective sub-sonic - become ineffective supersonic since the approaching air doesn't know about the flap.? Airplanes designed to be supersonic generally move the entire tail surface, not just?trailing edge flap.??

Tim


      

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:13:44 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:13:44 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and why?
In-Reply-To: <f08.6a25bd1d.38b8de9d@aol.com>
References: <f08.6a25bd1d.38b8de9d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002261013l4a413866g687501a3f6d75268@mail.gmail.com>

This is what happened to my 38mm PML Cirrus Dart on it maiden flight.  She
went up on a 29mm  H128W.  It looked like, during the last few milliseconds
of thrust she tilted over from the vertical and was ascending at a little
over 45 degrees.  (Still going straight up but the whole bird was at an
angle.)  This snapped the lower coupler and separated the rocket pulling out
my recovery gear and doing a gnarly zipper on the upper body tube.  Needless
to say I was getting my first level 1 flight and confetti recovery all at
once.  I was able to recover every bit of the Dart including my Chute  which
came down on its own.  Upon examination there was no reason found that could
explain what happened save one thing.  The piston ejection system would
build pressure behind it when a motor was place in or even when it was
already in place.  Yet this did not explain the 45 degree tilt in flight.  (
the place it came apart was a foot and a half below the payload bay which is
where the recovery gear is meant to make its appearance at apogee.)

After the examination I walked over to Bob at sun river and bought a new
body tube.  He did not have a coupler in my size.  Robert Krausert had a
38/29 adapter  which he tossed to me and I used that as the 2 couplers I
would need to rebuild.  I sawed it in half with a very large toothed bow
saw.  I mixed my epoxy and rebuilt it with the body tube now being a full 36
inches instead of 18.  During the rebuild I took out the piston because at
the time I felt that was a possible cause.  I had the Dart ready to fly
again in less then an hour and chose to wait until the next afternoon to
allow for a better curing time.

I was unable to get another H128W and there were so few reloads that would
keep the dart within the waiver.  Bob with Sun River only had 1 that would
work and that was an H238T.  This motor would put a normal Cirrus Dart right
at the waiver limit.  Being that it was now 18 inches longer and had a bit
more weight to it I went for it was approved for flight although Mother
Nature did not think so.  It was blowing between 15 to 20 mile an hour and
the cloud deck was sitting at ruffly 2000 feet.  It came down to the last
launch of the day/weekend and we had a very nice blue window coming.  Not
only did that sky open up but the winds died down to a 5 to 10 mph wind.
The second launch of my dart was successful and attained me a Level 1
Certification.

Chris Guenther
NAR L2

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:21 AM, <Simpsonclark at aol.com> wrote:

>
> Steve-  The wobble you have observed is the harmonic oscillation that  we
> are taking about.  The problem with transonic stability is less the
>  absolute
> value of the pressures than the asymmetrical aspects, which are many,
> varied, and largely beyond amateur reckoning, although your thought that
>  the
> fins become less effective, at least relative to the other forces acting on
> the rocket, is a leading contender.  Big problems arise because harmonic
> oscillations may eventually (like in a second or two) cause the rocket to
> rotate  off-axis to the point it is going sidewise, which is not good at
> 700+
> mph.   Others have mentioned fin loss.  Flutter in fins, which may be in
> part
> related to transonic flow but may also be unrelated, is a separate issue
> normally related to the nature of the dynamics of fin flexing as they do
> their
>  intended job of reacting against airflow to keep the rocket going
> straight.  Fin flutter is also prone to harmonic oscillation, but the
>  oscillations
> are controlled by the elastic characteristics of the fin and can  occur at
> any particular speed and may occur, dampen out and then reoccur at  another
> critical speed.  Pressure, in an absolute sense, is not actually a  big
> deal.  The forces acting against the rocket after mach 1 continue to
>  increase
> roughly by the square of the velocity, impeding the ability of the  rocket
> to
> accelerate, but not in itself causing stability problems, hence the
> admonition to push through mach 1 quickly.  Similarly, simple  drag force
> does not
> rip off very many fins, it is the harmonic vibration  that "whips" them
> off.  I leave it to Mr. Doll to further clarify, as he  has a better
> knowledge
> of the engineering than do I.
> -Robert
>
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2010 11:54:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> steve-c at ix.netcom.com writes:
>
> Hi  Robert, my understanding is that when air is still compressible, the
> pressure  wave mentioned that forms prior to a shock wave will create high
> and
> low  pressure zones along the airframe and these pressure zones propagate
> down in  proportion to speed within the transonic region of travel.  Once
> supersonic, the low pressure pocket drops behind the rocket thus reducing
> the
> stresses on the airframe.  I have observed on many occasions a wiggle  when
> rockets transition to supersonic and this is believed to be because the
> low pressure zone aligns with the fins thus causing momentary loss of
> steering.  Pure assumption / speculation on my part based on fluid  dynamic
> models
> I've seen that are a challenge to understand.  I'm hoping  my reply, if
> incorrect, will prompt for better clarity from others.   /Steve
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Robert Killen"  <robert.killen at yahoo.com>
> >To:  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:26  PM
> >Subject: [RocketsNW] What happens at Mach? ...and  why?
> >
> >
> >Hi everyone,The mention of stresses getting  through Mach on another
> thread
> >raised a question for me. Understand,  I'm just a hobby guy for now so
> this
> >is purely curiosity on my  part.
> >Since air is air is air, what creates the extra stresses at or  around
> Mach?
> >Does sound itself create friction or turbulence  or...?
> >Cheers! Robert
> >
> >Robert KillenBranding
> >
> Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com
> 541.280.5270
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Rockets  mailing  list
> >Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Rockets  mailing  list
> >Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Rockets mailing  list
> >Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:35:08 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:35:08 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February 28th
In-Reply-To: <DB11673FC45146D9AEEFB1AC902B9D33@LaptopKrausert>
References: <DB11673FC45146D9AEEFB1AC902B9D33@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <f9b1fff61002261035p6a24c462g79dcc505ec0daf89@mail.gmail.com>

FYI; OROC is holding a launch this weekend. Want to make sure everyone was
heard about it.

Cheers,
Robert

[Thanks Greg]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:00 PM
Subject: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February 28th
To: members at oregonrocketry.org, Bod at oregonrocketry.org, Robert Nech <
rnech at yahoo.com>


 OregonRocketry is proud to host a special rocket launch event on Sunday
February 28th from 11am till 3pm. This event will be held inside the
Tillamook airport. Event title is Rocknech, and will be celebrating STS-36
launch of Atlantis, February 28th 1990. Want to thank Robert Nech for
finding and securing permission for this event. Thus why I want this
introductory event named after the one that helped make this happen. We hope
you can join us for Rocknech.

Everyone attending must be carrying a FRS radio, powered on, and we'll be
using channel 4. I'll have extras, if you need to borrow one. So don't let
that stop you. Everyone attending must be either a member of NAR or TRA. If
you are with both, primary is TRA as the sanctioned national organization.

FAA waiver is for 10,000 feet MSL (or 9,964 AGL). This might be reduced if
conditions require it. Sunday's weather forecast looks very good so far.

All rules apply. We will be entering an official airport. Please follow any
rules they set forth. Lets show them a good show and hope they invite us all
back.

So join us. Bring the kids to fly some rockets. Want to do some high power?
Sure. 10K limit and max impulse of K. Certainly, join us at 11am for a
memory. Keith, John, and Steve are bringing GSE equipment.

Join us. Help show Tillamook our stuff. See you there!! Could OROC have site
#4? I hope so!! Bet we 100+ people there on Sunday! Rock-n' Roll baby!!!!

And as you all expect from me for events; Rocknech is a go!

Cheers,
Robert

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:35:43 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:35:43 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February
	28th
In-Reply-To: <31135198.1267212518648.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <31135198.1267212518648.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <f9b1fff61002261135l2886a98cg3d1dcf24617b1bfd@mail.gmail.com>

Turn onto Long Prairie road (going East), and enter where the road heads
into the big grey circle. Regarding highpower, we're going to try and get as
close to the little circle to the south. Likely between the little and big
one. And the flight line will be north of that in the south most big circle.
The big circles are a little over 500 feet across.

Hope that help. Certainly things may change once we all get a better look at
the place.

Cheers,
Robert

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:28 AM, <steve-c at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Robert,
>
> Can you provide any details on where to meet for the launch and/or perhaps
> where high power will launch from?  Sorry if I missed this in previous
> discussion.
>
> I've attached a Goggle map image of the Tillamook Airport for reference.
>
> Thanks.
>
> /Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Feb 26, 2010 1:35 PM
> >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February
> 28th
> >
> >FYI; OROC is holding a launch this weekend. Want to make sure everyone was
> >heard about it.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Robert
> >
> >[Thanks Greg]
> >
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> >Date: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:00 PM
> >Subject: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February 28th
> >To: members at oregonrocketry.org, Bod at oregonrocketry.org, Robert Nech <
>  >rnech at yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> > OregonRocketry is proud to host a special rocket launch event on Sunday
> >February 28th from 11am till 3pm. This event will be held inside the
> >Tillamook airport. Event title is Rocknech, and will be celebrating STS-36
> >launch of Atlantis, February 28th 1990. Want to thank Robert Nech for
> >finding and securing permission for this event. Thus why I want this
> >introductory event named after the one that helped make this happen. We
> hope
> >you can join us for Rocknech.
> >
> >Everyone attending must be carrying a FRS radio, powered on, and we'll be
> >using channel 4. I'll have extras, if you need to borrow one. So don't let
> >that stop you. Everyone attending must be either a member of NAR or TRA.
> If
> >you are with both, primary is TRA as the sanctioned national organization.
> >
> >FAA waiver is for 10,000 feet MSL (or 9,964 AGL). This might be reduced if
> >conditions require it. Sunday's weather forecast looks very good so far.
> >
> >All rules apply. We will be entering an official airport. Please follow
> any
> >rules they set forth. Lets show them a good show and hope they invite us
> all
> >back.
> >
> >So join us. Bring the kids to fly some rockets. Want to do some high
> power?
> >Sure. 10K limit and max impulse of K. Certainly, join us at 11am for a
> >memory. Keith, John, and Steve are bringing GSE equipment.
> >
> >Join us. Help show Tillamook our stuff. See you there!! Could OROC have
> site
> >#4? I hope so!! Bet we 100+ people there on Sunday! Rock-n' Roll baby!!!!
> >
> >And as you all expect from me for events; Rocknech is a go!
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Robert
> >_______________________________________________
> >Rockets mailing list
> >Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:56:04 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:56:04 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February
	28th
In-Reply-To: <f9b1fff61002261135l2886a98cg3d1dcf24617b1bfd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31135198.1267212518648.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<f9b1fff61002261135l2886a98cg3d1dcf24617b1bfd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002261156u2a388cd0u4a25d60de6bf5f8@mail.gmail.com>

I may be able to make it.  I would however need to borrow a radio.  Also am
I allowed to have family with me that will not be launching or is purely NAR
TRA only(meaning no spectators?)

Chris Guenther


On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Turn onto Long Prairie road (going East), and enter where the road heads
> into the big grey circle. Regarding highpower, we're going to try and get
> as
> close to the little circle to the south. Likely between the little and big
> one. And the flight line will be north of that in the south most big
> circle.
> The big circles are a little over 500 feet across.
>
> Hope that help. Certainly things may change once we all get a better look
> at
> the place.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:28 AM, <steve-c at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Robert,
> >
> > Can you provide any details on where to meet for the launch and/or
> perhaps
> > where high power will launch from?  Sorry if I missed this in previous
> > discussion.
> >
> > I've attached a Goggle map image of the Tillamook Airport for reference.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > /Steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> > >Sent: Feb 26, 2010 1:35 PM
> > >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February
> > 28th
> > >
> > >FYI; OROC is holding a launch this weekend. Want to make sure everyone
> was
> > >heard about it.
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >Robert
> > >
> > >[Thanks Greg]
> > >
> > >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> > >Date: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:00 PM
> > >Subject: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February 28th
> > >To: members at oregonrocketry.org, Bod at oregonrocketry.org, Robert Nech <
> >  >rnech at yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > OregonRocketry is proud to host a special rocket launch event on Sunday
> > >February 28th from 11am till 3pm. This event will be held inside the
> > >Tillamook airport. Event title is Rocknech, and will be celebrating
> STS-36
> > >launch of Atlantis, February 28th 1990. Want to thank Robert Nech for
> > >finding and securing permission for this event. Thus why I want this
> > >introductory event named after the one that helped make this happen. We
> > hope
> > >you can join us for Rocknech.
> > >
> > >Everyone attending must be carrying a FRS radio, powered on, and we'll
> be
> > >using channel 4. I'll have extras, if you need to borrow one. So don't
> let
> > >that stop you. Everyone attending must be either a member of NAR or TRA.
> > If
> > >you are with both, primary is TRA as the sanctioned national
> organization.
> > >
> > >FAA waiver is for 10,000 feet MSL (or 9,964 AGL). This might be reduced
> if
> > >conditions require it. Sunday's weather forecast looks very good so far.
> > >
> > >All rules apply. We will be entering an official airport. Please follow
> > any
> > >rules they set forth. Lets show them a good show and hope they invite us
> > all
> > >back.
> > >
> > >So join us. Bring the kids to fly some rockets. Want to do some high
> > power?
> > >Sure. 10K limit and max impulse of K. Certainly, join us at 11am for a
> > >memory. Keith, John, and Steve are bringing GSE equipment.
> > >
> > >Join us. Help show Tillamook our stuff. See you there!! Could OROC have
> > site
> > >#4? I hope so!! Bet we 100+ people there on Sunday! Rock-n' Roll
> baby!!!!
> > >
> > >And as you all expect from me for events; Rocknech is a go!
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >Robert
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Rockets mailing list
> > >Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Fri Feb 26 12:10:07 2010
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:10:07 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event
	February	28th
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002261156u2a388cd0u4a25d60de6bf5f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31135198.1267212518648.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<f9b1fff61002261135l2886a98cg3d1dcf24617b1bfd@mail.gmail.com>
	<e83b26701002261156u2a388cd0u4a25d60de6bf5f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59896878@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Family is welcome. Safety is primary. Since we'll be inside airport grounds, they need to be monitored and listen to all announcements. Especially if there's a heads up call or in coming aircraft announcement. 

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:56 AM
To: Robert Krausert
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fwd: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February 28th

I may be able to make it.  I would however need to borrow a radio.  Also am
I allowed to have family with me that will not be launching or is purely NAR
TRA only(meaning no spectators?)

Chris Guenther


On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Turn onto Long Prairie road (going East), and enter where the road heads
> into the big grey circle. Regarding highpower, we're going to try and get
> as
> close to the little circle to the south. Likely between the little and big
> one. And the flight line will be north of that in the south most big
> circle.
> The big circles are a little over 500 feet across.
>
> Hope that help. Certainly things may change once we all get a better look
> at
> the place.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:28 AM, <steve-c at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Robert,
> >
> > Can you provide any details on where to meet for the launch and/or
> perhaps
> > where high power will launch from?  Sorry if I missed this in previous
> > discussion.
> >
> > I've attached a Goggle map image of the Tillamook Airport for reference.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > /Steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> > >Sent: Feb 26, 2010 1:35 PM
> > >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February
> > 28th
> > >
> > >FYI; OROC is holding a launch this weekend. Want to make sure everyone
> was
> > >heard about it.
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >Robert
> > >
> > >[Thanks Greg]
> > >
> > >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> > >Date: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:00 PM
> > >Subject: OregonRocketry Tillamook Launch Event February 28th
> > >To: members at oregonrocketry.org, Bod at oregonrocketry.org, Robert Nech <
> >  >rnech at yahoo.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > OregonRocketry is proud to host a special rocket launch event on Sunday
> > >February 28th from 11am till 3pm. This event will be held inside the
> > >Tillamook airport. Event title is Rocknech, and will be celebrating
> STS-36
> > >launch of Atlantis, February 28th 1990. Want to thank Robert Nech for
> > >finding and securing permission for this event. Thus why I want this
> > >introductory event named after the one that helped make this happen. We
> > hope
> > >you can join us for Rocknech.
> > >
> > >Everyone attending must be carrying a FRS radio, powered on, and we'll
> be
> > >using channel 4. I'll have extras, if you need to borrow one. So don't
> let
> > >that stop you. Everyone attending must be either a member of NAR or TRA.
> > If
> > >you are with both, primary is TRA as the sanctioned national
> organization.
> > >
> > >FAA waiver is for 10,000 feet MSL (or 9,964 AGL). This might be reduced
> if
> > >conditions require it. Sunday's weather forecast looks very good so far.
> > >
> > >All rules apply. We will be entering an official airport. Please follow
> > any
> > >rules they set forth. Lets show them a good show and hope they invite us
> > all
> > >back.
> > >
> > >So join us. Bring the kids to fly some rockets. Want to do some high
> > power?
> > >Sure. 10K limit and max impulse of K. Certainly, join us at 11am for a
> > >memory. Keith, John, and Steve are bringing GSE equipment.
> > >
> > >Join us. Help show Tillamook our stuff. See you there!! Could OROC have
> > site
> > >#4? I hope so!! Bet we 100+ people there on Sunday! Rock-n' Roll
> baby!!!!
> > >
> > >And as you all expect from me for events; Rocknech is a go!
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >Robert
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Rockets mailing list
> > >Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From bradmcclure at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 26 14:15:45 2010
From: bradmcclure at hotmail.com (Brad McClure)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:45 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
Message-ID: <SNT104-W29E811674427BE35A2F3EEB93F0@phx.gbl>


I've been looking at various minimal diameter body tube rocket kits and came across their Fiberglass kits - http://v-serv.com/usr/fib.htm

 

Anyone have any experience with US Rockets in general and / or their fiber glass kits?

 

Thanks

-brad
 		 	   		  

From ryan98391 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:11:11 2010
From: ryan98391 at gmail.com (Ryan Williams)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:11:11 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
Message-ID: <d9e1a2c91002261511l41b3c262w13b1eb3af2a8675d@mail.gmail.com>

I finally figured out how to make a filter in Gmail that automatically sends
all my RocketsNW mail to one folder. Yay me. No more tedious sorting and I'm
only a decade behind the curve.

From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com  Fri Feb 26 15:36:18 2010
From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:36:18 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
In-Reply-To: <SNT104-W29E811674427BE35A2F3EEB93F0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT104-W29E811674427BE35A2F3EEB93F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00d801cab73c$7fd310a0$7f7931e0$@com>

ONLY MAKE AN ORDER ON A COD BASIS!  Do not make the mistake others have
made.  There is nothing technically all that wrong with USR kits, but the
owner has a plan where he ships and you pay when you receive.  If he won't
do that with you, then he doesn't have the items you requested in stock and
you will be giving your money away by prepaying.

Caveat emptor.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Brad McClure
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:16 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
> 
> 
> I've been looking at various minimal diameter body tube rocket kits and
> came across their Fiberglass kits - http://v-serv.com/usr/fib.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any experience with US Rockets in general and / or their fiber
> glass kits?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -brad
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:19:55 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:19:55 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
In-Reply-To: <d9e1a2c91002261511l41b3c262w13b1eb3af2a8675d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9e1a2c91002261511l41b3c262w13b1eb3af2a8675d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002261519j25d7a1a9wf3bed5e60fc6bc02@mail.gmail.com>

How did you do it I would love to know.

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Ryan Williams <ryan98391 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I finally figured out how to make a filter in Gmail that automatically
> sends
> all my RocketsNW mail to one folder. Yay me. No more tedious sorting and
> I'm
> only a decade behind the curve.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Fri Feb 26 15:51:19 2010
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:51:19 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002261519j25d7a1a9wf3bed5e60fc6bc02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9e1a2c91002261511l41b3c262w13b1eb3af2a8675d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e83b26701002261519j25d7a1a9wf3bed5e60fc6bc02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E59896B16@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Chris,
It's easy.

Go into gmail properties. Setup rule, example; If from [sender]="robert.krausert@" then [DELETE PERMANENT], [no reply]

That easy. 

Cheers,
Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:20 PM
To: Ryan Williams
Cc: Rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.

How did you do it I would love to know.

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Ryan Williams <ryan98391 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I finally figured out how to make a filter in Gmail that automatically
> sends
> all my RocketsNW mail to one folder. Yay me. No more tedious sorting and
> I'm
> only a decade behind the curve.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From rod at whippetfield.com  Fri Feb 26 15:57:40 2010
From: rod at whippetfield.com (Rod)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:57:40 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
References: <d9e1a2c91002261511l41b3c262w13b1eb3af2a8675d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA61DA8B27CB4BC49504BC415726C674@DANE>

What's a filter? I use 'em to make my coffee. 

At least two decades behind the curve. 

Rod M.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ryan Williams 
  To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:11 PM
  Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.


  I finally figured out how to make a filter in Gmail that automatically sends
  all my RocketsNW mail to one folder. Yay me. No more tedious sorting and I'm
  only a decade behind the curve.
  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    


From carl at mousetrap.com  Fri Feb 26 15:59:23 2010
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:59:23 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
In-Reply-To: <e83b26701002261519j25d7a1a9wf3bed5e60fc6bc02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9e1a2c91002261511l41b3c262w13b1eb3af2a8675d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e83b26701002261519j25d7a1a9wf3bed5e60fc6bc02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd1002261559g1897a47es313f573d116ff69d@mail.gmail.com>

>From GMail, you can click on the down arrow in the upper right hand corner
of a message and select "Filter messages like this". For messages from this
list, the "Create a Filter" form will automatically have the "Has the words"
field properly filled. Click the "Next Step" button and then decide what you
want done to the messages that match the filter.

Did that help?

 - Carl

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Christopher Guenther <
guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:

> How did you do it I would love to know.
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Ryan Williams <ryan98391 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I finally figured out how to make a filter in Gmail that automatically
> > sends
> > all my RocketsNW mail to one folder. Yay me. No more tedious sorting and
> > I'm
> > only a decade behind the curve.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:12:07 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:12:07 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd1002261559g1897a47es313f573d116ff69d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9e1a2c91002261511l41b3c262w13b1eb3af2a8675d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e83b26701002261519j25d7a1a9wf3bed5e60fc6bc02@mail.gmail.com>
	<e068dfbd1002261559g1897a47es313f573d116ff69d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002261612j7a83413fx4bf019ad0ead62cc@mail.gmail.com>

TEST message no reply needed.

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Carl Hamilton <carl at mousetrap.com> wrote:

> From GMail, you can click on the down arrow in the upper right hand corner
> of a message and select "Filter messages like this". For messages from this
> list, the "Create a Filter" form will automatically have the "Has the words"
> field properly filled. Click the "Next Step" button and then decide what you
> want done to the messages that match the filter.
>
> Did that help?
>
>  - Carl
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Christopher Guenther <
> guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> How did you do it I would love to know.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Ryan Williams <ryan98391 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I finally figured out how to make a filter in Gmail that automatically
>> > sends
>> > all my RocketsNW mail to one folder. Yay me. No more tedious sorting and
>> > I'm
>> > only a decade behind the curve.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>

From bar0051 at homenetnw.net  Fri Feb 26 19:26:48 2010
From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:26:48 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection
Message-ID: <9F0872EB75D74BF4A2716A0C59399650@MEDIONDeskTop>

My LEUP expires April 1 and I had not received any renewal paper work, so I called the Spokane office about 2 or 3 weeks ago and asked them to send the forms.  I had still not received anything so I called again early this week and left a voice mail.  On Wed. I was out of town and when I got home, there was a message from Heidi Folsum (she just transferred here from Florida) and on Thursday I was able to get her on the phone.  She said she would see about getting me the forms and that she needed to do an inspection so we scheduled it for 10am the next day.  Since I had never been inspected by ATF before, it took about an hour and she had me make copies of my magazine description and dimensions as well as a copy of the letter I gave the Fire Dept.  She had no issues with anything but made an interesting remark about igniters.  I had mentioned the issue of not having and definitive regulation on what an igniter is and she said that the AFT was working on that but could not comment on it.  As it happened, the forms arrived in the mail just before she got here, and she brought me another set as well.  I have had 2 inspections by WA. L & I and am past due for another but have had no issues with them either.

Bryon Schopp

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Fri Feb 26 19:35:57 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:35:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
In-Reply-To: <d9e1a2c91002261511l41b3c262w13b1eb3af2a8675d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9e1a2c91002261511l41b3c262w13b1eb3af2a8675d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9381c1f05bf26cc8b6fa7ab858f119f5.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com>

No need for self-flagellation, Ryan.  I'm using the klunky web mail
software my ISP provider has because I've never figured out how to get
*any* other mail program to work on this computer(even Outlook).  My last
computer, I finally succeeded in getting Netscape to work by the old
"monkeys on typewriters" method--just kept changing settings until it
worked and then never messed with the email options again.  But dang, this
computer must have a good firewall--keeps out EVERYTHING, including me! 
;-)

And you computer geeks out there, I've tried all the advice and every
suggestion.  The solution, if I ever have the money, is to buy a new
computer and have the store geeks configure it *fully* exactly the way I
want before I bring it home.  Until then, no problem, I'm accustomed to
using smoke signals.

+McG+


> I finally figured out how to make a filter in Gmail that automatically
> sends
> all my RocketsNW mail to one folder. Yay me. No more tedious sorting and
> I'm
> only a decade behind the curve.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From jpr602 at mac.com  Fri Feb 26 21:14:30 2010
From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:14:30 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Landings_on_other_planets
Message-ID: <3FFA889F-AFB2-4EE6-9A78-FC7D0E283D0D@mac.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landings_on_other_planets

From ryan98391 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 23:06:13 2010
From: ryan98391 at gmail.com (Ryan Williams)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:06:13 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] How to archive and label RocketsNW posts in Gmail
Message-ID: <d9e1a2c91002262306j50984dcbi15f4df7688739049@mail.gmail.com>

I posted earlier that I had finally found out how to create a filter in
Gmail for all the RocketsNW messages without posting how I did this or why.
Here's my Eureka moment. Months ago I created a label for RocketsNW emails;
I had to manually check each Rocketsnw message and move it to my rocket
folder for lack of a better term. Then I saw the create a filter button next
to search the web in my Gmail account. I added RocketsNW to the subject then
on the next screen I checked archive and ad label then chose the rocket
label I had been using for months. The trick was to archive the email. Now I
can read all my RocketsNW mail without having to wade through all my other
email if I don't feel like reading that stuff. I highly recommend Gmail and
Chrome. If you take the time to learn some of the secrets, it can make life
easier.

From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net  Fri Feb 26 23:22:57 2010
From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:22:57 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] How to archive and label RocketsNW posts in Gmail
In-Reply-To: <d9e1a2c91002262306j50984dcbi15f4df7688739049@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9e1a2c91002262306j50984dcbi15f4df7688739049@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9DD8577ED42A4F50B5B7FD1F79AF4690@Desktop>

Ryan, it works great. You can do the same in outlook by creating e-mail 
rules in the message menu.......Mark
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Williams" <ryan98391 at gmail.com>
To: <Rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:06 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] How to archive and label RocketsNW posts in Gmail


>I posted earlier that I had finally found out how to create a filter in
> Gmail for all the RocketsNW messages without posting how I did this or 
> why.
> Here's my Eureka moment. Months ago I created a label for RocketsNW 
> emails;
> I had to manually check each Rocketsnw message and move it to my rocket
> folder for lack of a better term. Then I saw the create a filter button 
> next
> to search the web in my Gmail account. I added RocketsNW to the subject 
> then
> on the next screen I checked archive and ad label then chose the rocket
> label I had been using for months. The trick was to archive the email. Now 
> I
> can read all my RocketsNW mail without having to wade through all my other
> email if I don't feel like reading that stuff. I highly recommend Gmail 
> and
> Chrome. If you take the time to learn some of the secrets, it can make 
> life
> easier.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sat Feb 27 01:02:21 2010
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:02:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Landings_on_other_planets
In-Reply-To: <3FFA889F-AFB2-4EE6-9A78-FC7D0E283D0D@mac.com>
References: <3FFA889F-AFB2-4EE6-9A78-FC7D0E283D0D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2d17bd0d4805cc074de2b822edef819c.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com>

Oh c'mon.  Everybody *knows* alien spacecraft don't descend out of the
sky.  Can't possibly happen.  The laws of physics prohibit traveling vast
distances through space.  Swamp gas.  All just swamp gas.
+McG+


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landings_on_other_planets



From appusher at q.com  Sat Feb 27 09:02:31 2010
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:02:31 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design
	and	Attachement
In-Reply-To: <f2de.332015a6.38b58041@aol.com>
References: <f2de.332015a6.38b58041@aol.com>
Message-ID: <COL111-W50E37671AE2BDBA70DEE6EDC3E0@phx.gbl>


Adding to the discussion, another related question.

 

When you design a rocket in RocSim or other design programs, do you just put the ebay parts together in the airframe?  Or do you design the ebay as a sub-assembly?

Bill









 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:02:25 -0500
> To: rwjcom at comcast.net
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement
> 
> At apogee, the booster ejects the upper section which includes the upper 
> airframe and the bay. The bay can be shear pinned or what I do is friction 
> fit and use aluminum shear tape to hold it to the upper section. Then, at 
> main deploy, the bay ejects from the rear of the upper section, pulling the 
> chute out.
> 
> I like attaching the chute about two feet from the part being ejected to 
> ensure it gets pulled out briskly.
> 
> The above method only works correctly if your e-bay has a band of airframe 
> in the middle. It doesn't need to be a wide section either, just big 
> enough for your vent hole and arming switch.
> 
> Mike F.
> 
> 
> In a message dated 2/23/2010 10:09:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 
> rwjcom at comcast.net writes:
> 
> 
> O-o-o-o-h-h-h-h-h! I like that idea. But (predictably) have a couple of 
> questions. 
> Do you also eject the e-bay from the tail section, or do you seperate them 
> conventionally? 
> Do you move the main 'chute closer to the ebay when you set things up this 
> way? Seems like the accepted wisdom is to attach the 'chute 1/3 of the 
> way down the harness from the nose cone, when the cone is the ejected bit. 
> When it is the e-bay that is ejected, does it make sense to move the 'chute 
> attachment to a third-point away from it? That would give the e-bay the 
> softest possible landing wouldn't it? Might take some work on harness 
> lengths to keep the nose and tail section clear of each other during recovery. 
> Best, 
> Bob 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> To: ibelchloud at aol.com, rwjcom at comcast.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:08:01 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and 
> Attachement
> 
> Lou,
> 
> Thanks for the plug! :)
> 
> I get around the holes not lining up by not using them anymore. I don't 
> attach my e-bays to either section, I secure the nosecone and eject the bay 
> instead. Since the bay is the heavier of the two, it pulls the main out 
> cleaner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sat Feb 27 09:10:22 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:10:22 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and
	Attachement
Message-ID: <4d887.41db290c.38baabfe@aol.com>

I've done both ways.  I'm no Rocksim expert but, If you have a  universal 
way of building your e-bay it works better if you save it as a sub  assembly 
so you can just use it in any design without having to re-create it for  
every new rocket.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 2/27/2010 9:02:59 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
appusher at q.com writes:

Adding  to the discussion, another related question.

When you design a  rocket in RocSim or other design programs, do you just 
put the ebay parts  together in the airframe?  Or do you design the ebay as a 
 sub-assembly?

Bill


From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Sat Feb 27 10:30:33 2010
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:30:33 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay
	Design	and	Attachement
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W50E37671AE2BDBA70DEE6EDC3E0@phx.gbl>
References: <f2de.332015a6.38b58041@aol.com>
	<COL111-W50E37671AE2BDBA70DEE6EDC3E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B8964C9.40403@hawkfeather.com>

Sub-assembly. See:
http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/l3/design.html
or download:
http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/l3/excuse-me_98-64mm.rkt

Andrew.

Bill Munds wrote:
> Adding to the discussion, another related question.
> 
>  
> 
> When you design a rocket in RocSim or other design programs, do you just put the ebay parts together in the airframe?  Or do you design the ebay as a sub-assembly?
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
> 
> 
>  
>> From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:02:25 -0500
>> To: rwjcom at comcast.net
>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and Attachement
>>
>> At apogee, the booster ejects the upper section which includes the upper 
>> airframe and the bay. The bay can be shear pinned or what I do is friction 
>> fit and use aluminum shear tape to hold it to the upper section. Then, at 
>> main deploy, the bay ejects from the rear of the upper section, pulling the 
>> chute out.
>>
>> I like attaching the chute about two feet from the part being ejected to 
>> ensure it gets pulled out briskly.
>>
>> The above method only works correctly if your e-bay has a band of airframe 
>> in the middle. It doesn't need to be a wide section either, just big 
>> enough for your vent hole and arming switch.
>>
>> Mike F.
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 2/23/2010 10:09:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 
>> rwjcom at comcast.net writes:
>>
>>
>> O-o-o-o-h-h-h-h-h! I like that idea. But (predictably) have a couple of 
>> questions. 
>> Do you also eject the e-bay from the tail section, or do you seperate them 
>> conventionally? 
>> Do you move the main 'chute closer to the ebay when you set things up this 
>> way? Seems like the accepted wisdom is to attach the 'chute 1/3 of the 
>> way down the harness from the nose cone, when the cone is the ejected bit. 
>> When it is the e-bay that is ejected, does it make sense to move the 'chute 
>> attachment to a third-point away from it? That would give the e-bay the 
>> softest possible landing wouldn't it? Might take some work on harness 
>> lengths to keep the nose and tail section clear of each other during recovery. 
>> Best, 
>> Bob 
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> To: ibelchloud at aol.com, rwjcom at comcast.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:08:01 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Neubish Chronicals: Ch2 - Ebay Design and 
>> Attachement
>>
>> Lou,
>>
>> Thanks for the plug! :)
>>
>> I get around the holes not lining up by not using them anymore. I don't 
>> attach my e-bays to either section, I secure the nosecone and eject the bay 
>> instead. Since the bay is the heavier of the two, it pulls the main out 
>> cleaner.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>  		 	   		  
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 

From dave at skagitlapidary.com  Sat Feb 27 11:51:29 2010
From: dave at skagitlapidary.com (Dave Ebersole)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:51:29 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Worth the switch?
Message-ID: <4B8977C1.90109@skagitlapidary.com>



After seeing Andrew's rocket file,
I was wondering if its worth upgrading to Rocksim.

Dave Ebersole


From dmrandall at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 12:08:32 2010
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:08:32 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Worth the switch?
In-Reply-To: <4B8977C1.90109@skagitlapidary.com>
References: <4B8977C1.90109@skagitlapidary.com>
Message-ID: <6bc920e41002271208g35d8432s77db62d1dbe7546c@mail.gmail.com>

Switching from what?

I never used anything but Rocksim, and rely on it for all my basic
flight profiling plus some "experimenting" on really big/small motors.

IMO, it's pretty much the HPR standard (without getting into rigorous
Class 3 requirements)

Dave
NAR 84939 L3

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Dave Ebersole <dave at skagitlapidary.com> wrote:
>
>
> After seeing Andrew's rocket file,
> I was wondering if its worth upgrading to Rocksim.
>
> Dave Ebersole
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From rocketsrfun at msn.com  Sat Feb 27 12:20:04 2010
From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:20:04 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Veil lifts slightly on Blue Origin rocket project -
	Space.com- msnbc.com
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS182B268F9E34DE711DC135BD3E0@phx.gbl>

Even though this is a project by the founder of Amazon.com, I was good to read that NASA is spreading the wealth to the private sector for ideas...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35603622/ns/technology_and_science-space/<http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35603622/ns/technology_and_science-space/>

From dave at skagitlapidary.com  Sat Feb 27 12:35:30 2010
From: dave at skagitlapidary.com (Dave Ebersole)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:35:30 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Worth the switch from SpaceCad 4.0
Message-ID: <4B898212.5070204@skagitlapidary.com>

After seeing Andrew's rocket file,
  I was wondering if its worth upgrading to Rocksim.

  Dave Ebersole


From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Sat Feb 27 13:18:37 2010
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:18:37 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Worth the switch from SpaceCad 4.0
References: <4B898212.5070204@skagitlapidary.com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300495@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Yes.
 
First year my students competed in TARC, we used SpaceCad.  Reality was never even close to what the sims indicated.
 
In every year since, we've used RockSim, and in every year since (knock on wood) we've made nationals.  Once you learn the quirks, it's totally worth it.
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Dave Ebersole
Sent: Sat 2/27/2010 12:35 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Worth the switch from SpaceCad 4.0



After seeing Andrew's rocket file,
  I was wondering if its worth upgrading to Rocksim.

  Dave Ebersole

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Sat Feb 27 13:23:59 2010
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:23:59 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone available to witness a TARC qualifying flight at
	Sixty Acres this Sunday?
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300496@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Hey all you Seattle Area NAR members,
 
With the rules changes this year, the students can make three qualifying attempts, but only two may be made after March 1.  They're not really ready to seriously try to qualify, but they're looking at their launch tomorrow as an opportunity to get of a "freebie" qualifying flight.  They only need an observer.
 
We plan to be arriving at 60 sometime around 1:00 pm.  They'll probably take a couple of practice shots before they do one for real.
 
Any help would be appreciated.  If no-one can make it, then I guess they'll just have to do it the old-fashioned way...two flights in March.
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net  Sat Feb 27 13:31:09 2010
From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:31:09 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
In-Reply-To: <00d801cab73c$7fd310a0$7f7931e0$@com>
References: <SNT104-W29E811674427BE35A2F3EEB93F0@phx.gbl>
	<00d801cab73c$7fd310a0$7f7931e0$@com>
Message-ID: <001801cab7f4$2e2aa390$8a7feab0$@Dennis42@comcast.net>

I can tell you that a few years ago I ordered some kits and never received
'em.  About 6 months later I did get a check back for what I paid (they
cashed my original).  The response to my inquires was sporadic and weeks
after I emailed 'em.  No phone number then, and didn't see any on the
website now.

Could be all better now, but before I'd order again I want to talk to
someone there...

Good luck!

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:36 PM
To: 'Brad McClure'
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request

ONLY MAKE AN ORDER ON A COD BASIS!  Do not make the mistake others have
made.  There is nothing technically all that wrong with USR kits, but the
owner has a plan where he ships and you pay when you receive.  If he won't
do that with you, then he doesn't have the items you requested in stock and
you will be giving your money away by prepaying.

Caveat emptor.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Brad McClure
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:16 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
> 
> 
> I've been looking at various minimal diameter body tube rocket kits and
> came across their Fiberglass kits - http://v-serv.com/usr/fib.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any experience with US Rockets in general and / or their fiber
> glass kits?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -brad
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From brodwcjj at integrity.com  Sat Feb 27 10:34:55 2010
From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:34:55 -0600
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1267300804.28715.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.9.1267300804.28715.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <25f99411492af56e9aecaea9695c68cc.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>

Filter for coffee ?
How cool.    I'm still using a percolator.
Three to four decades behind the curve  ;-)
Dustin

From: "Rod" <rod at whippetfield.com
>
To: <Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
Message-ID: <BA61DA8B27CB4BC49504BC415726C674 at DANE>
Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="iso-8859-1"

What's a filter? I use 'em to make my coffee.

At least two decades behind the curve.

Rod M.



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 14:15:06 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:15:06 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
References: <mailman.9.1267300804.28715.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<25f99411492af56e9aecaea9695c68cc.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>
Message-ID: <3DB58FE5BE264DD3A3381FAF04A3B379@LaptopKrausert>

What's a percha..., percala..., percolater? Did you mean a perchlorate?

I wkik'd percolater and got, "a prehistoric method of brewing strange dried 
beans originally used in soups, later drank alone."

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <brodwcjj at integrity.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.


> Filter for coffee ?
> How cool.    I'm still using a percolator.
> Three to four decades behind the curve  ;-)
> Dustin
>
> From: "Rod" <rod at whippetfield.com
>>
> To: <Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] I made a filter! I'm a newb.
> Message-ID: <BA61DA8B27CB4BC49504BC415726C674 at DANE>
> Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> What's a filter? I use 'em to make my coffee.
>
> At least two decades behind the curve.
>
> Rod M.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From LenBryan at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 27 14:15:51 2010
From: LenBryan at shaw.ca (Len Bryan)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:15:51 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
Message-ID: <1AC947182F904A5FA39096224E3147BB@LORTO720>

If a person really wants a USR kit, I believe there are a few dealers that
have them. I once ordered from USR and paid after I received the items. I
got them in a decent time and the payment plan worked. As others have
mentioned though, there is a lot of evidence suggesting that you should make
sure the item is in stock before ordering.

 

Here is a dealer that has them.
https://blastzone.com/performancehobbies/store.asp?groupid=19

 

Oh, as for the product, I only ordered components. They were fine.

 

 

Len Bryan


From hmpalotakdz6 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 14:09:59 2010
From: hmpalotakdz6 at gmail.com (JUSTYN PALMER)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:09:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Spring is quickly approaching...
Message-ID: <d03ea12c1002271409s45fd8c04pdc9cbca130694dd1@mail.gmail.com>

not to long before the spring flying season so i thought i'd run a special
to give substantial discounts to those who wish to "pre-order" for the
upcoming season. buy 29mm G/H case w/2 loads-save 10%...buy 38mm I/J case
w/2 loads-save 15%-w/3 loads-save 20%. buy 54mm J-K case with 2 loads-save
15%-w/3 loads save 20%. 54mm L(54/2550) case w/1 load save 15%-2 loads save
20%. 75 mm K-L is 15% off w/case & 1 load-20% off w/case & 2 loads...&
finally 75/6000-75/7600 M's & above are 10% off with case purchase, or 20%
off if you buy case & 2 reloads!!!
anything bigger i can qoute you a price over the phone @
208.639.0292-internet is very unreliable. also can give you a special deal
on any larger purchases-just give us a call-Thanks...Justyn & Candice Palmer
TRA11915 &12031

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 17:03:19 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:03:19 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocknech is a go!!
Message-ID: <662691265ED04EC39DED95E4A8B7043B@LaptopKrausert>

Hello,
Yah, it's me again. But only with good news. Promise!

Tomorrow's rocket launch event, Rocknech is a go!!! Launch event is located at the Tillamook Oregon airport. Located at 4000 Blimp Blvd, Tillamook, Oregon 97141. Launch times are 11am till 3pm.

FAA and NOTAM are setup, with a waiver to 10,000 feet MSL. 

Everyone is welcome. Bring the family, friends. We'll put on a great show. Either fly rockets are simply watch!!! This is free event to everyone. Fliers must be a member of NAR or TRA. Spectators are welcome, no national club membership required. 

February 28th, 2010 will be the day we blow the doors off Tillamook. News organizations have been notified! Let's show them all the best in class rocketry, safety, and friendship. I hope we are not only welcomed back, but encouraged back. 

All present will need to sign a release of liability form. On site, fliers and spectators will be required to wear a wristband. Wristbands will be issued after signing the release form. 

We'll have a PA system for those near the flight line. FRS radios are needed for those recovering rockets. We are using channel 4 for this event. I'll bring extras for those that need them. 

Official clubs ground support equipment will not onsite. But we need to treat this as any official launch event. 

See you all there. Let's have some fun. 

Cheers,
Robert Krausert
OROC President

From sb at berfield.com  Sat Feb 27 17:34:53 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:34:53 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone available to witness a TARC qualifying
	flight at	Sixty Acres this Sunday?
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300496@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300496@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <027001cab816$3a7a8620$af6f9260$@com>

I'd be glad to help out.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:24 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone available to witness a TARC qualifying flight at
Sixty Acres this Sunday?

Hey all you Seattle Area NAR members,
 
With the rules changes this year, the students can make three qualifying
attempts, but only two may be made after March 1.  They're not really ready
to seriously try to qualify, but they're looking at their launch tomorrow as
an opportunity to get of a "freebie" qualifying flight.  They only need an
observer.
 
We plan to be arriving at 60 sometime around 1:00 pm.  They'll probably take
a couple of practice shots before they do one for real.
 
Any help would be appreciated.  If no-one can make it, then I guess they'll
just have to do it the old-fashioned way...two flights in March.
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  




From sb at berfield.com  Sat Feb 27 17:39:11 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:39:11 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
In-Reply-To: <001801cab7f4$2e2aa390$8a7feab0$@Dennis42@comcast.net>
References: <SNT104-W29E811674427BE35A2F3EEB93F0@phx.gbl>	<00d801cab73c$7fd310a0$7f7931e0$@com>
	<001801cab7f4$2e2aa390$8a7feab0$@Dennis42@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <027101cab816$d4152fb0$7c3f8f10$@com>

I would just be nervous about a company that still has such a cruddy looking
Web site with no photos, docs or data files on it for its kits. Appearance
isn't everything, but at some point, it begins to indicate a casual attitude
toward the business.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Michael Dennis
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:31 PM
To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Brad McClure'
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request

I can tell you that a few years ago I ordered some kits and never received
'em.  About 6 months later I did get a check back for what I paid (they
cashed my original).  The response to my inquires was sporadic and weeks
after I emailed 'em.  No phone number then, and didn't see any on the
website now.

Could be all better now, but before I'd order again I want to talk to
someone there...

Good luck!

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:36 PM
To: 'Brad McClure'
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request

ONLY MAKE AN ORDER ON A COD BASIS!  Do not make the mistake others have
made.  There is nothing technically all that wrong with USR kits, but the
owner has a plan where he ships and you pay when you receive.  If he won't
do that with you, then he doesn't have the items you requested in stock and
you will be giving your money away by prepaying.

Caveat emptor.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Brad McClure
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:16 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
> 
> 
> I've been looking at various minimal diameter body tube rocket kits and
> came across their Fiberglass kits - http://v-serv.com/usr/fib.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any experience with US Rockets in general and / or their fiber
> glass kits?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -brad
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  




From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 17:49:01 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:49:01 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocknech is a go!!
In-Reply-To: <662691265ED04EC39DED95E4A8B7043B@LaptopKrausert>
References: <662691265ED04EC39DED95E4A8B7043B@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26701002271749n7fe9f7efif4c5d6b8767d4b37@mail.gmail.com>

Are we going to have all levels of launch pads?  I have some 1/2A, B, C, and
G birds I would like to get into the air.  As I am currently tied up in
escrow on a house at the moment I can not spend $ for the 38mm J I would
need to put the Seeker into the mile high club yet again.




On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello,
> Yah, it's me again. But only with good news. Promise!
>
> Tomorrow's rocket launch event, Rocknech is a go!!! Launch event is located
> at the Tillamook Oregon airport. Located at 4000 Blimp Blvd, Tillamook,
> Oregon 97141. Launch times are 11am till 3pm.
>
> FAA and NOTAM are setup, with a waiver to 10,000 feet MSL.
>
> Everyone is welcome. Bring the family, friends. We'll put on a great show.
> Either fly rockets are simply watch!!! This is free event to everyone.
> Fliers must be a member of NAR or TRA. Spectators are welcome, no national
> club membership required.
>
> February 28th, 2010 will be the day we blow the doors off Tillamook. News
> organizations have been notified! Let's show them all the best in class
> rocketry, safety, and friendship. I hope we are not only welcomed back, but
> encouraged back.
>
> All present will need to sign a release of liability form. On site, fliers
> and spectators will be required to wear a wristband. Wristbands will be
> issued after signing the release form.
>
> We'll have a PA system for those near the flight line. FRS radios are
> needed for those recovering rockets. We are using channel 4 for this event.
> I'll bring extras for those that need them.
>
> Official clubs ground support equipment will not onsite. But we need to
> treat this as any official launch event.
>
> See you all there. Let's have some fun.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert Krausert
> OROC President
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 20:37:14 2010
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:37:14 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocknech Loaner casing?
Message-ID: <e83b26701002272037n428bf033x7623275f30e6d09c@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking to borrow a 38/440 casing for tommorows Launch.  If you have
one and are going I can get it from you there.  If you do not plan on going
I can pick it up from you.  I will aslo have a 38/1080 casing, a 29/180
casing, and a 29/240 that can be borrowed by others if they need them.

Chris Guenther

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Sun Feb 28 07:22:14 2010
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:22:14 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
In-Reply-To: <027101cab816$d4152fb0$7c3f8f10$@com>
References: <SNT104-W29E811674427BE35A2F3EEB93F0@phx.gbl>	<00d801cab73c$7fd310a0$7f7931e0$@com>	<001801cab7f4$2e2aa390$8a7feab0$@Dennis42@comcast.net>
	<027101cab816$d4152fb0$7c3f8f10$@com>
Message-ID: <4B8A8A26.3010706@hawkfeather.com>

For those not in the know about Jerry Irvine of US Rockets, be very wary 
and do some research before dealing with him:

http://bit.ly/bhGJ6M

Andrew.

Scott Berfield wrote:
> I would just be nervous about a company that still has such a cruddy looking
> Web site with no photos, docs or data files on it for its kits. Appearance
> isn't everything, but at some point, it begins to indicate a casual attitude
> toward the business.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Michael Dennis
> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:31 PM
> To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Brad McClure'
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
> 
> I can tell you that a few years ago I ordered some kits and never received
> 'em.  About 6 months later I did get a check back for what I paid (they
> cashed my original).  The response to my inquires was sporadic and weeks
> after I emailed 'em.  No phone number then, and didn't see any on the
> website now.
> 
> Could be all better now, but before I'd order again I want to talk to
> someone there...
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:36 PM
> To: 'Brad McClure'
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
> 
> ONLY MAKE AN ORDER ON A COD BASIS!  Do not make the mistake others have
> made.  There is nothing technically all that wrong with USR kits, but the
> owner has a plan where he ships and you pay when you receive.  If he won't
> do that with you, then he doesn't have the items you requested in stock and
> you will be giving your money away by prepaying.
> 
> Caveat emptor.
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Brad McClure
>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:16 PM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] US Rockets feedback request
>>
>>
>> I've been looking at various minimal diameter body tube rocket kits and
>> came across their Fiberglass kits - http://v-serv.com/usr/fib.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone have any experience with US Rockets in general and / or their fiber
>> glass kits?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -brad

From LenBryan at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 28 11:54:44 2010
From: LenBryan at shaw.ca (Len Bryan)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:54:44 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Hey there NorthWest Aerotech dealers
In-Reply-To: <4B8A8A26.3010706@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <CEA14AF173354C479E6031A56AC2A415@LORTO720>

Does anyone have the "38 Special" deal mentioned here coming?
http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3208/39/
I would sure like to get in on this deal.

Please let me know.

Thank you,

Len Bryan



From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Sun Feb 28 12:13:31 2010
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:13:31 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] Hey there NorthWest Aerotech dealers
In-Reply-To: <CEA14AF173354C479E6031A56AC2A415@LORTO720>
References: <CEA14AF173354C479E6031A56AC2A415@LORTO720>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP7D6047435F6FEA4A9AA65F43D0@phx.gbl>

Len,
We are going to stock them, but most of the ones on the current order are going fast.................

Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager
 
Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707
Ph. 541-598-4406  Fax 541-593-5207
 
Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world.



On Feb 28, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Len Bryan wrote:

> Does anyone have the "38 Special" deal mentioned here coming?
> http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3208/39/
> I would sure like to get in on this deal.
> 
> Please let me know.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Len Bryan
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 


From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Feb 28 15:15:45 2010
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:15:45 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] JB Weld
Message-ID: <DAA81D9A64ADDF489DA1ABC0BBFF4756012A32@BL2PRD0103MB051.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Just thought I'd share that a source for JB Weld in both small and large tubes and JB Kwik is Amazon.com.  Good prices and quick ship.

I've started using both more and more given several suggestions by several of the good folks here.

Thx
b


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Feb 28 16:04:53 2010
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:04:53 EST
Subject: [RocketsNW] JB Weld
Message-ID: <86b46.433ca812.38bc5ea5@aol.com>

Last time I checked, Schucks still carried it in the industrial size.  
 
Mike F.
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/28/2010 3:16:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
bradwr at wrightholdings.com writes:

Just  thought I'd share that a source for JB Weld in both small and large 
tubes and  JB Kwik is Amazon.com.  Good prices and quick ship.

I've started  using both more and more given several suggestions by several 
of the good  folks  here.

Thx
b

_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Sun Feb 28 16:38:38 2010
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:38:38 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] JB Weld
In-Reply-To: <86b46.433ca812.38bc5ea5@aol.com>
References: <86b46.433ca812.38bc5ea5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP102FBED21F114CF08EFFBFF43C0@phx.gbl>

Just a reminder, we carry both the quick and regular JB weld in the store we bring to launches at $5. Just in case you need it at a lunch site............
Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager
 
Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707
Ph. 541-598-4406  Fax 541-593-5207
 
Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world.



On Feb 28, 2010, at 4:04 PM, Mfreptiles at aol.com wrote:

> Last time I checked, Schucks still carried it in the industrial size.  
> 
> Mike F.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 2/28/2010 3:16:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
> bradwr at wrightholdings.com writes:
> 
> Just  thought I'd share that a source for JB Weld in both small and large 
> tubes and  JB Kwik is Amazon.com.  Good prices and quick ship.
> 
> I've started  using both more and more given several suggestions by several 
> of the good  folks  here.
> 
> Thx
> b
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets  mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 


From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Sun Feb 28 17:34:01 2010
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:34:01 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] JB Weld
In-Reply-To: <DAA81D9A64ADDF489DA1ABC0BBFF4756012B7C@BL2PRD0103MB051.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <86b46.433ca812.38bc5ea5@aol.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP102FBED21F114CF08EFFBFF43C0@phx.gbl>
	<DAA81D9A64ADDF489DA1ABC0BBFF4756012B7C@BL2PRD0103MB051.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP4469D2374170289F4A412CF43C0@phx.gbl>

Yes, I do have big tubes here ( Industro Weld- 5 oz.), but usually just keep the little ones ( 2 oz.)  with me for that quick install of the motor retainer or repair......
Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager
 
Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707
Ph. 541-598-4406  Fax 541-593-5207
 
Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world.



On Feb 28, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Brad Wright wrote:

> What about the BIG tubes?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of robert grossfeld
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 4:39 PM
> To: nwrocketry
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] JB Weld
> 
> Just a reminder, we carry both the quick and regular JB weld in the store we bring to launches at $5. Just in case you need it at a lunch site............
> Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager
> 
> Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
> POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707
> Ph. 541-598-4406  Fax 541-593-5207
> 
> Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world.
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 28, 2010, at 4:04 PM, Mfreptiles at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Last time I checked, Schucks still carried it in the industrial size.  
>> 
>> Mike F.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In a message dated 2/28/2010 3:16:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, 
>> bradwr at wrightholdings.com writes:
>> 
>> Just  thought I'd share that a source for JB Weld in both small and 
>> large tubes and  JB Kwik is Amazon.com.  Good prices and quick ship.
>> 
>> I've started  using both more and more given several suggestions by 
>> several of the good  folks  here.
>> 
>> Thx
>> b
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets  mailing  list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> 
> 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 18:09:53 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:09:53 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report
Message-ID: <E71492EF7B614D7EA1C35784666862E3@LaptopKrausert>

February 28th 2010

If there was a rating for todays weather in Tillamook, I'd be hard pressed not to give at least an 8. More like a 9 or 10. Most people arrived by 11:30. We got redirected to another gate, and got to park right on the airport grounds, next to the flight light. Setup nearly completed by 12:00 noon, and begin flying rockets. GSE was we had a rail at 200 feet, rail and rod at 100 feet, and rods at 50 feet. Portable PA system worked fine for the event. Special thank you to Steve Cutonilli, Keith Packard, Randy Birzer, and John Lyngdal for bringing ground support equipment. 

With nice weather, we all come out. That includes pilots. We did have some air traffic today. We held to the rules, and didn't create too many delays. Cloud deck opened and closed throughout the event. Some opportunities for higher flights at times. We were given the frequency of Tillamook Traffic, and could hear in coming aircraft via the radios before seeing them. This was extremely helpful. Big thank you to Warren, airport manager, for his very positive welcome and how he wants to see more of these activities at the airport. 

My one flight of the day was using, Back Off. Flew its 41st flight on a G79 10W. Consistent 3000 feet flight. Back Off is a modified Aerotech rocket. 36" long, 2.5" diameter, and painted blue. Recovery was short, at about 75 feet from the flight line to the northwest. So pleased to see Back Off fly again. If you only count vertical, Back Off flow vertical to 23 miles. My favorite rocket, if you can't tell. 

Let's see if I can do this. Vehicles from left to right. Dale Colman, Robert & Jacob Braibish, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Keith Packard, My self, Mark Dunkle, Greg Clark, Randy Birzer, Richard Bremer (congrats for L1 cert), Chris Guenther (and family), Rick Clapp, Fred Azinger (and better half), Steve Cutonilli, Gwynn Danies, John Lyngdal

OK; the details. Total of 28 flights today.
A1/2 - 1
C - 3
D - 2 (1 with 6 C's in cluster)
F - 1
G - 8
H - 6
I - 4
J - 4

Biggest motor of the day, Randy Birzer on J570
Best flight of the day, Fred Azinger flying 1D and 6C motors on cluster. Scored an altitude of 72 inches. 
Best Quick Modification of the day, Greg Clark's Kermit rocket. His 10K+ rocket, shrank, calling it Lil'Kermie.

Our newest Tripoli level one goes to Richard Bremer. Welcome to level one, get out your checkbook. 

Big thank you to Robert Nech for everything to find, secure and help with access today. Deputy might yell at me; but here goes... Robert, one HELL of a find. 

Cheers,
Robert
OregonRocket President

Thank you everyone for making this a truly special day. Looking forward to the next. Rocknech was a success!!!

From rod at whippetfield.com  Sun Feb 28 20:33:33 2010
From: rod at whippetfield.com (Rod)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:33:33 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report
References: <E71492EF7B614D7EA1C35784666862E3@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <4E22E77F68EF4F6286D530A29C7398A9@DANE>

Thanks for the launch report Robert.

Sounds like a good time and good conditions. 

Rod M.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: rockets at rocketsnw.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org 
  Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:09 PM
  Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report


  February 28th 2010

  If there was a rating for todays weather in Tillamook, I'd be hard pressed not to give at least an 8. More like a 9 or 10. Most people arrived by 11:30. We got redirected to another gate, and got to park right on the airport grounds, next to the flight light. Setup nearly completed by 12:00 noon, and begin flying rockets. GSE was we had a rail at 200 feet, rail and rod at 100 feet, and rods at 50 feet. Portable PA system worked fine for the event. Special thank you to Steve Cutonilli, Keith Packard, Randy Birzer, and John Lyngdal for bringing ground support equipment. 

  With nice weather, we all come out. That includes pilots. We did have some air traffic today. We held to the rules, and didn't create too many delays. Cloud deck opened and closed throughout the event. Some opportunities for higher flights at times. We were given the frequency of Tillamook Traffic, and could hear in coming aircraft via the radios before seeing them. This was extremely helpful. Big thank you to Warren, airport manager, for his very positive welcome and how he wants to see more of these activities at the airport. 

  My one flight of the day was using, Back Off. Flew its 41st flight on a G79 10W. Consistent 3000 feet flight. Back Off is a modified Aerotech rocket. 36" long, 2.5" diameter, and painted blue. Recovery was short, at about 75 feet from the flight line to the northwest. So pleased to see Back Off fly again. If you only count vertical, Back Off flow vertical to 23 miles. My favorite rocket, if you can't tell. 

  Let's see if I can do this. Vehicles from left to right. Dale Colman, Robert & Jacob Braibish, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Keith Packard, My self, Mark Dunkle, Greg Clark, Randy Birzer, Richard Bremer (congrats for L1 cert), Chris Guenther (and family), Rick Clapp, Fred Azinger (and better half), Steve Cutonilli, Gwynn Danies, John Lyngdal

  OK; the details. Total of 28 flights today.
  A1/2 - 1
  C - 3
  D - 2 (1 with 6 C's in cluster)
  F - 1
  G - 8
  H - 6
  I - 4
  J - 4

  Biggest motor of the day, Randy Birzer on J570
  Best flight of the day, Fred Azinger flying 1D and 6C motors on cluster. Scored an altitude of 72 inches. 
  Best Quick Modification of the day, Greg Clark's Kermit rocket. His 10K+ rocket, shrank, calling it Lil'Kermie.

  Our newest Tripoli level one goes to Richard Bremer. Welcome to level one, get out your checkbook. 

  Big thank you to Robert Nech for everything to find, secure and help with access today. Deputy might yell at me; but here goes... Robert, one HELL of a find. 

  Cheers,
  Robert
  OregonRocket President

  Thank you everyone for making this a truly special day. Looking forward to the next. Rocknech was a success!!!
  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 20:54:04 2010
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:54:04 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report
References: <E71492EF7B614D7EA1C35784666862E3@LaptopKrausert>
	<4E22E77F68EF4F6286D530A29C7398A9@DANE>
Message-ID: <5F6587C197CE4D62A632BB40CE704A97@LaptopKrausert>

Thanks Rod. We certainly found a new diamond. Google map does the site no justice. Being onsite clearly shows how much space we have. 10K flights? Maybe not. But as we saw today, 6K flights are fine. No matter what, this is a treasure we should grab. Especially with the airport manager encouragement. 

No lost rockets today. Some landing can e harsh. Many areas are paved or rocked. Not like the kitty litter at Brothers. But if we can prepare for that. Dings, scratched paint, etc - this might be a new site. 

We do need OROC GSE there. We do need easier access by the locked gate. I'm going to figure out how to set my trailer up with OROC GSE needed. The basic needs, and not the whole trailer. I'm also gonna ask about two day events. 

Hope the others send their reports. Fantastic day. And Back Off now at 41 flights.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rod 
  To: Robert Krausert ; rockets at rocketsnw.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org 
  Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report


  Thanks for the launch report Robert.

  Sounds like a good time and good conditions. 

  Rod M.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Robert Krausert 
    To: rockets at rocketsnw.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org 
    Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:09 PM
    Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report


    February 28th 2010

    If there was a rating for todays weather in Tillamook, I'd be hard pressed not to give at least an 8. More like a 9 or 10. Most people arrived by 11:30. We got redirected to another gate, and got to park right on the airport grounds, next to the flight light. Setup nearly completed by 12:00 noon, and begin flying rockets. GSE was we had a rail at 200 feet, rail and rod at 100 feet, and rods at 50 feet. Portable PA system worked fine for the event. Special thank you to Steve Cutonilli, Keith Packard, Randy Birzer, and John Lyngdal for bringing ground support equipment. 

    With nice weather, we all come out. That includes pilots. We did have some air traffic today. We held to the rules, and didn't create too many delays. Cloud deck opened and closed throughout the event. Some opportunities for higher flights at times. We were given the frequency of Tillamook Traffic, and could hear in coming aircraft via the radios before seeing them. This was extremely helpful. Big thank you to Warren, airport manager, for his very positive welcome and how he wants to see more of these activities at the airport. 

    My one flight of the day was using, Back Off. Flew its 41st flight on a G79 10W. Consistent 3000 feet flight. Back Off is a modified Aerotech rocket. 36" long, 2.5" diameter, and painted blue. Recovery was short, at about 75 feet from the flight line to the northwest. So pleased to see Back Off fly again. If you only count vertical, Back Off flow vertical to 23 miles. My favorite rocket, if you can't tell. 

    Let's see if I can do this. Vehicles from left to right. Dale Colman, Robert & Jacob Braibish, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Keith Packard, My self, Mark Dunkle, Greg Clark, Randy Birzer, Richard Bremer (congrats for L1 cert), Chris Guenther (and family), Rick Clapp, Fred Azinger (and better half), Steve Cutonilli, Gwynn Danies, John Lyngdal

    OK; the details. Total of 28 flights today.
    A1/2 - 1
    C - 3
    D - 2 (1 with 6 C's in cluster)
    F - 1
    G - 8
    H - 6
    I - 4
    J - 4

    Biggest motor of the day, Randy Birzer on J570
    Best flight of the day, Fred Azinger flying 1D and 6C motors on cluster. Scored an altitude of 72 inches. 
    Best Quick Modification of the day, Greg Clark's Kermit rocket. His 10K+ rocket, shrank, calling it Lil'Kermie.

    Our newest Tripoli level one goes to Richard Bremer. Welcome to level one, get out your checkbook. 

    Big thank you to Robert Nech for everything to find, secure and help with access today. Deputy might yell at me; but here goes... Robert, one HELL of a find. 

    Cheers,
    Robert
    OregonRocket President

    Thank you everyone for making this a truly special day. Looking forward to the next. Rocknech was a success!!!
    _______________________________________________
    Rockets mailing list
    Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
      

From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Sun Feb 28 21:23:49 2010
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 00:23:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report
Message-ID: <22080966.1267421029733.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I had a most excellent time for the short duration there - saw about a dozen good flights.  Mine went up fine and flat spun back because of electronics - would have not been a problem anywhere else, but it smacked the parking area 30ft shy of the grass.  Busted a fin and squished the altimeter - 9V battery badly deformed itself from the high-G impact - everything else held ok, so I was pleased about that.  I vote we put Tillamook on the calendar this spring for another trial - I'll certainly be going again.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
>Sent: Feb 28, 2010 9:09 PM
>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com, members at oregonrocketry.org
>Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Tillamook Rocknech Launch Report
>
>February 28th 2010
>
>If there was a rating for todays weather in Tillamook, I'd be hard pressed not to give at least an 8. More like a 9 or 10. Most people arrived by 11:30. We got redirected to another gate, and got to park right on the airport grounds, next to the flight light. Setup nearly completed by 12:00 noon, and begin flying rockets. GSE was we had a rail at 200 feet, rail and rod at 100 feet, and rods at 50 feet. Portable PA system worked fine for the event. Special thank you to Steve Cutonilli, Keith Packard, Randy Birzer, and John Lyngdal for bringing ground support equipment. 
>
>With nice weather, we all come out. That includes pilots. We did have some air traffic today. We held to the rules, and didn't create too many delays. Cloud deck opened and closed throughout the event. Some opportunities for higher flights at times. We were given the frequency of Tillamook Traffic, and could hear in coming aircraft via the radios before seeing them. This was extremely helpful. Big thank you to Warren, airport manager, for his very positive welcome and how he wants to see more of these activities at the airport. 
>
>My one flight of the day was using, Back Off. Flew its 41st flight on a G79 10W. Consistent 3000 feet flight. Back Off is a modified Aerotech rocket. 36" long, 2.5" diameter, and painted blue. Recovery was short, at about 75 feet from the flight line to the northwest. So pleased to see Back Off fly again. If you only count vertical, Back Off flow vertical to 23 miles. My favorite rocket, if you can't tell. 
>
>Let's see if I can do this. Vehicles from left to right. Dale Colman, Robert & Jacob Braibish, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Keith Packard, My self, Mark Dunkle, Greg Clark, Randy Birzer, Richard Bremer (congrats for L1 cert), Chris Guenther (and family), Rick Clapp, Fred Azinger (and better half), Steve Cutonilli, Gwynn Danies, John Lyngdal
>
>OK; the details. Total of 28 flights today.
>A1/2 - 1
>C - 3
>D - 2 (1 with 6 C's in cluster)
>F - 1
>G - 8
>H - 6
>I - 4
>J - 4
>
>Biggest motor of the day, Randy Birzer on J570
>Best flight of the day, Fred Azinger flying 1D and 6C motors on cluster. Scored an altitude of 72 inches. 
>Best Quick Modification of the day, Greg Clark's Kermit rocket. His 10K+ rocket, shrank, calling it Lil'Kermie.
>
>Our newest Tripoli level one goes to Richard Bremer. Welcome to level one, get out your checkbook. 
>
>Big thank you to Robert Nech for everything to find, secure and help with access today. Deputy might yell at me; but here goes... Robert, one HELL of a find. 
>
>Cheers,
>Robert
>OregonRocket President
>
>Thank you everyone for making this a truly special day. Looking forward to the next. Rocknech was a success!!!
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From sb at berfield.com  Sun Feb 28 22:00:06 2010
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 22:00:06 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: How to pull out a tooth with a rocket...
Message-ID: <028e01cab904$71eee5d0$55ccb170$@com>

 

 

From: messages-noreply at bounce.linkedin.com [mailto:messages-noreply at bounce.linkedin.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Willis
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:20 PM
To: Scott Berfield
Subject: How to pull out a tooth with a rocket...

 



LinkedIn


Jeff Willis has sent you a message.

Date: 2/28/2010 

Subject: How to pull out a tooth with a rocket... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPhRiaNW4UQ 

 <http://www.linkedin.com/e/q9clebiZwA7V1hmv1T-xEM-M85/mbi/I1849551333_2/> View/reply to this message

Don't want to receive e-mail notifications?  <http://www.linkedin.com/e/q9clebiZwA7V1hmv1T-xEM-M85/blk/I1849551333_2/s6hJbOYWrSlI/mdp/> Adjust your message settings.

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From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Sun Feb 28 22:57:49 2010
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 22:57:49 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: How to pull out a tooth with a rocket...
In-Reply-To: <028e01cab904$71eee5d0$55ccb170$@com>
References: <028e01cab904$71eee5d0$55ccb170$@com>
Message-ID: <SNT125-W3D7E4037A6B1617CFD689B53C0@phx.gbl>


Can't wait to hear from CPS . . . 





 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

> From: sb at berfield.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 22:00:06 -0800
> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: How to pull out a tooth with a rocket...
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: messages-noreply at bounce.linkedin.com [mailto:messages-noreply at bounce.linkedin.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Willis
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 7:20 PM
> To: Scott Berfield
> Subject: How to pull out a tooth with a rocket...
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> LinkedIn
> 
> 
> Jeff Willis has sent you a message.
> 
> Date: 2/28/2010 
> 
> Subject: How to pull out a tooth with a rocket... 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPhRiaNW4UQ 
> 
>  <http://www.linkedin.com/e/q9clebiZwA7V1hmv1T-xEM-M85/mbi/I1849551333_2/> View/reply to this message
> 
> Don't want to receive e-mail notifications?  <http://www.linkedin.com/e/q9clebiZwA7V1hmv1T-xEM-M85/blk/I1849551333_2/s6hJbOYWrSlI/mdp/> Adjust your message settings.
> 
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> 
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