From sales at pvconly.com  Tue Sep  1 05:30:26 2009
From: sales at pvconly.com (sales at pvconly.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 05:30:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Surfactants for APCP
In-Reply-To: <B5F50DD3B53F4C1881E57339EF80E3B0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <62883.45144.qm@web1214.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

If one is using Triton, do you have to grind up the whole engine or just the engine block?



--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Surfactants for APCP
To: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 8:20 PM


Maybe Mike Fisher should consider using X-100 in his 170 feet long, 38 mm x 
1020 grain Q motor. ;-)

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
To: "'Robert Krausert'" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Surfactants for APCP


> What, it helped your drive?
> It was my putting that really improved with Triton ;-)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 6:55 PM
> To: Geoff Huber; Greg Deputy; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Surfactants for APCP
>
> A box of 12 certainly costs a little more. I also use Triton X-100 only
> anymore. Switched about two years ago to Triton X-100 and noticed on a 
> long
> drive I'm getting about 50 to 75 yards further down the fairway.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Geoff Huber" <ghuber at landacorp.com>
> To: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Surfactants for APCP
>
>
>>I use Triton X-100
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:28 PM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Surfactants for APCP
>>
>> Besides lecithin?? I've tried a couple but didn't measure any noticeable
>> differences.
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On
>>> Behalf Of Sam Grado www.pvconly.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:32 PM
>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Surfactants for APCP
>>>
>>> Is there anyone on this forum working with processing surfactants in
>>> their APCP formulations?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 

From winningstad at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 09:38:03 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 09:38:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <260161.45976.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <000f01ca2a96$d2bd1af0$783750d0$@net>
	<260161.45976.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <012301ca2b22$93fbde00$bbf39a00$@net>

'Rocketman' was Elton John...eh?

I like 'Major Tom' by David Bowie :D  Shiny Toy Gun???????????????????????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW0_kTYvARc


Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of John Hornsby
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:18 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...

Shiny Toy Gun's version of Major Tom.

John Hornsby

Still TRA L2?? :o)




________________________________
From: Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:57:39 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...

We were discussing this one in our home and could not come up with but one,
so I put this one out to all of you.

What is your favorite rocket or space song and who was it by? All that we
could really remember was the David Bowie song "Rocketman" from the 70's. I
know that there are others I just can't seem to recall them, can you? 



Cameron Tinder

Still NAR & TRA L1



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From blakbird11 at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 09:39:09 2009
From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net))
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:39:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <458441814.6585291251823120882.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1949300917.6585591251823149896.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

"Fire in the Sky" by Ozzy Osbourne 
"Countdown" by Rush 

Eric 


----- "Cameron Tinder" <sealtee at cableone.net> wrote: 
> We were discussing this one in our home and could not come up with but one, 
> so I put this one out to all of you. 
> 
> What is your favorite rocket or space song and who was it by? All that we 
> could really remember was the David Bowie song "Rocketman" from the 70's. I 
> know that there are others I just can't seem to recall them, can you? 
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron Tinder 


From blakbird11 at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 09:39:09 2009
From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net))
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:39:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <458441814.6585291251823120882.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1949300917.6585591251823149896.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

"Fire in the Sky" by Ozzy Osbourne 
"Countdown" by Rush 

Eric 


----- "Cameron Tinder" <sealtee at cableone.net> wrote: 
> We were discussing this one in our home and could not come up with but one, 
> so I put this one out to all of you. 
> 
> What is your favorite rocket or space song and who was it by? All that we 
> could really remember was the David Bowie song "Rocketman" from the 70's. I 
> know that there are others I just can't seem to recall them, can you? 
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron Tinder 


From winningstad at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 09:39:21 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 09:39:21 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <260161.45976.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <000f01ca2a96$d2bd1af0$783750d0$@net>
	<260161.45976.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <012401ca2b22$c236e3a0$46a4aae0$@net>

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhSYbRiYwTY


Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of John Hornsby
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:18 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...

Shiny Toy Gun's version of Major Tom.

John Hornsby

Still TRA L2?? :o)




________________________________
From: Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:57:39 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...

We were discussing this one in our home and could not come up with but one,
so I put this one out to all of you.

What is your favorite rocket or space song and who was it by? All that we
could really remember was the David Bowie song "Rocketman" from the 70's. I
know that there are others I just can't seem to recall them, can you? 



Cameron Tinder

Still NAR & TRA L1



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 09:44:04 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:44:04 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Surfactants for APCP
Message-ID: <c14.6af35f0e.37cea954@aol.com>

Nice.....I'd like to see that. :)  Brenda participates in rocketry,  but 
that would be pushing my luck.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 8/31/2009 11:33:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
steve-c at ix.netcom.com writes:

I have  the wifey helping cast <sigh> 


From fred_bare at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 09:58:31 2009
From: fred_bare at yahoo.com (Fred Bare)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 09:58:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <1949300917.6585591251823149896.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <773783.92678.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



Zoom A Little Zoom
What Is The Milky Way?
Constellation Jig
Beep, Beep
Why Does The Sun Shine?
What Is A Shooting Star?
Longitude And Latitude
It's A Scientific Fact
Ballad Of Sir Isaac Newton
Friction
Why Are Stars Of Different Colors?
Why Do Stars Twinkle?
What Is Gravity?
Planet Minuet
Why Go Up There?
All Alone - "Once upon a time they sent a rocket to the moon" 
A Shooting Star Is Not A Star 
Ballad Of Davy Crockett (In Outer Space) 
Battle For The Planet Of The Apes 
Battle For The Planet Of They Might Be Giants 
Beneath The Planet Of The Apes 
Conquest Of The Planet Of The Apes 
Destination Moon 
Escape From The Planet Of The Apes 
For Science - "There has been a spacecraft sighted" 
Gone To The Moon 
Mission Control 
Moving To The Sun 
Nightgown Of The Sullen Moon 
Planet Of The Apes 
Return To The Planet Of The Apes 
Rocket Ship 
See The Constellation 
Space Krickets 
Space Jam 
Space Suit 
The Sun Is On Fire 
To The Bubblecraft 
Towson - the protagonist is from another planet 
Ultimate Battle For The Planet Of The Apes 
What Bothers The Spaceman 
Why Does The Sun Shine? 
?


?


      

From bphlat234 at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 10:27:15 2009
From: bphlat234 at comcast.net (Gary Harris)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:27:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <773783.92678.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <773783.92678.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7076E30B2EB74952ABE89CD59150163C@Garylaptop>

oops lost the original list so sorry if I'm being redundant, but here's a 
few

Stars Fell On Alabama
Leaving on a Jet Plane
Space is the Place (from Pleasure, Portland's big soul band of the 70s 80s)
Big Dipper (Thad Jones)
When You Wish Upon a Star
Jupiter (Earth Wind and Fire)
Rocket (Def Leppard)(Smashing Pumpkins)
If I Had a Rocket Launcher (Bruce Cockburn)




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Bare" <fred_bare at yahoo.com>
To: <Rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...




Zoom A Little Zoom
What Is The Milky Way?
Constellation Jig
Beep, Beep
Why Does The Sun Shine?
What Is A Shooting Star?
Longitude And Latitude
It's A Scientific Fact
Ballad Of Sir Isaac Newton
Friction
Why Are Stars Of Different Colors?
Why Do Stars Twinkle?
What Is Gravity?
Planet Minuet
Why Go Up There?
All Alone - "Once upon a time they sent a rocket to the moon"
A Shooting Star Is Not A Star
Ballad Of Davy Crockett (In Outer Space)
Battle For The Planet Of The Apes
Battle For The Planet Of They Might Be Giants
Beneath The Planet Of The Apes
Conquest Of The Planet Of The Apes
Destination Moon
Escape From The Planet Of The Apes
For Science - "There has been a spacecraft sighted"
Gone To The Moon
Mission Control
Moving To The Sun
Nightgown Of The Sullen Moon
Planet Of The Apes
Return To The Planet Of The Apes
Rocket Ship
See The Constellation
Space Krickets
Space Jam
Space Suit
The Sun Is On Fire
To The Bubblecraft
Towson - the protagonist is from another planet
Ultimate Battle For The Planet Of The Apes
What Bothers The Spaceman
Why Does The Sun Shine?







_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From deyv at europa.com  Tue Sep  1 09:58:25 2009
From: deyv at europa.com (Dave Connet)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 09:58:25 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot altimeters
In-Reply-To: <cff.5e287c15.37cd52fa@aol.com>
References: <cff.5e287c15.37cd52fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4A9D52B1.3040208@europa.com>

Mike: go for it!!

Mfreptiles at aol.com wrote:
> That would be over 170 feet long unless we go nuclear propulsion.
>  
> Mike F.
>  
>  
> In a message dated 8/30/2009 10:34:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
> lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:
>
> Mike?  What about the 38mm Q?
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>


From joebevier at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 10:31:08 2009
From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:31:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <7076E30B2EB74952ABE89CD59150163C@Garylaptop>
References: <773783.92678.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7076E30B2EB74952ABE89CD59150163C@Garylaptop>
Message-ID: <45717540909011031u1ffb7c87s6416ca1ea694144d@mail.gmail.com>

The Highwayman by Johnny Cash -"I fly a starship, across the universe
divine. . . ."

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Gary Harris <bphlat234 at comcast.net> wrote:

> oops lost the original list so sorry if I'm being redundant, but here's a
> few
>
> Stars Fell On Alabama
> Leaving on a Jet Plane
> Space is the Place (from Pleasure, Portland's big soul band of the 70s 80s)
> Big Dipper (Thad Jones)
> When You Wish Upon a Star
> Jupiter (Earth Wind and Fire)
> Rocket (Def Leppard)(Smashing Pumpkins)
> If I Had a Rocket Launcher (Bruce Cockburn)
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Bare" <fred_bare at yahoo.com>
> To: <Rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:58 AM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
>
>
>
>
> Zoom A Little Zoom
> What Is The Milky Way?
> Constellation Jig
> Beep, Beep
> Why Does The Sun Shine?
> What Is A Shooting Star?
> Longitude And Latitude
> It's A Scientific Fact
> Ballad Of Sir Isaac Newton
> Friction
> Why Are Stars Of Different Colors?
> Why Do Stars Twinkle?
> What Is Gravity?
> Planet Minuet
> Why Go Up There?
> All Alone - "Once upon a time they sent a rocket to the moon"
> A Shooting Star Is Not A Star
> Ballad Of Davy Crockett (In Outer Space)
> Battle For The Planet Of The Apes
> Battle For The Planet Of They Might Be Giants
> Beneath The Planet Of The Apes
> Conquest Of The Planet Of The Apes
> Destination Moon
> Escape From The Planet Of The Apes
> For Science - "There has been a spacecraft sighted"
> Gone To The Moon
> Mission Control
> Moving To The Sun
> Nightgown Of The Sullen Moon
> Planet Of The Apes
> Return To The Planet Of The Apes
> Rocket Ship
> See The Constellation
> Space Krickets
> Space Jam
> Space Suit
> The Sun Is On Fire
> To The Bubblecraft
> Towson - the protagonist is from another planet
> Ultimate Battle For The Planet Of The Apes
> What Bothers The Spaceman
> Why Does The Sun Shine?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
Joe

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Tue Sep  1 11:36:37 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:36:37 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <45717540909011031u1ffb7c87s6416ca1ea694144d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <773783.92678.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7076E30B2EB74952ABE89CD59150163C@Garylaptop>
	<45717540909011031u1ffb7c87s6416ca1ea694144d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E4173388E@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

I'd have to say "Lose Yourself" by Eminem. "...if you were give one shot, one opportunity, would you take it?..." 

Cheers, 
Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Joe Bevier
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:31 AM
To: Gary Harris
Cc: Rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...

The Highwayman by Johnny Cash -"I fly a starship, across the universe
divine. . . ."

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Gary Harris <bphlat234 at comcast.net> wrote:

> oops lost the original list so sorry if I'm being redundant, but here's a
> few
>
> Stars Fell On Alabama
> Leaving on a Jet Plane
> Space is the Place (from Pleasure, Portland's big soul band of the 70s 80s)
> Big Dipper (Thad Jones)
> When You Wish Upon a Star
> Jupiter (Earth Wind and Fire)
> Rocket (Def Leppard)(Smashing Pumpkins)
> If I Had a Rocket Launcher (Bruce Cockburn)
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Bare" <fred_bare at yahoo.com>
> To: <Rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:58 AM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
>
>
>
>
> Zoom A Little Zoom
> What Is The Milky Way?
> Constellation Jig
> Beep, Beep
> Why Does The Sun Shine?
> What Is A Shooting Star?
> Longitude And Latitude
> It's A Scientific Fact
> Ballad Of Sir Isaac Newton
> Friction
> Why Are Stars Of Different Colors?
> Why Do Stars Twinkle?
> What Is Gravity?
> Planet Minuet
> Why Go Up There?
> All Alone - "Once upon a time they sent a rocket to the moon"
> A Shooting Star Is Not A Star
> Ballad Of Davy Crockett (In Outer Space)
> Battle For The Planet Of The Apes
> Battle For The Planet Of They Might Be Giants
> Beneath The Planet Of The Apes
> Conquest Of The Planet Of The Apes
> Destination Moon
> Escape From The Planet Of The Apes
> For Science - "There has been a spacecraft sighted"
> Gone To The Moon
> Mission Control
> Moving To The Sun
> Nightgown Of The Sullen Moon
> Planet Of The Apes
> Return To The Planet Of The Apes
> Rocket Ship
> See The Constellation
> Space Krickets
> Space Jam
> Space Suit
> The Sun Is On Fire
> To The Bubblecraft
> Towson - the protagonist is from another planet
> Ultimate Battle For The Planet Of The Apes
> What Bothers The Spaceman
> Why Does The Sun Shine?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
Joe
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From rbraibish at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 13:05:13 2009
From: rbraibish at yahoo.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:05:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <000301ca2abd$3c007950$b4016bf0$@net>
References: <000f01ca2a96$d2bd1af0$783750d0$@net>
	<4A9C9917.2000700@earthlink.net>
	<000301ca2abd$3c007950$b4016bf0$@net>
Message-ID: <109787.61806.qm@web43508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>



A few more songs with a space/rocket theme... or at least a reference or title ...

Children of The Sun, Billy Thorpe ( The intro would make great music to a video)
Why Me, Planet P Project
Hypmotized, Fleetwood Mac (a bit of a stretch)
Sisters of the Moon, Fleetwood Mac (even a bit more of a stretch)
Desdemona's Building a Rocket Ship, Jimmy Buffet
Mr. Spaceman, The Byrds
Also Sprach Zarathustra Opening Fanfare, Richard?Strauss?[From 2001 - A Space Odyssey]

More to come as I think of them....

Robert Braibish


      

From bigrockets at verizon.net  Tue Sep  1 13:31:57 2009
From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:31:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <109787.61806.qm@web43508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <000f01ca2a96$d2bd1af0$783750d0$@net>
	<4A9C9917.2000700@earthlink.net>	<000301ca2abd$3c007950$b4016bf0$@net>
	<109787.61806.qm@web43508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000801ca2b43$40d2a3f0$c277ebd0$@net>

My addition:  Pink Floyd's  Set The Controls For The Heart of The Sun

Dave Proffitt

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Braibish
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:05 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...



A few more songs with a space/rocket theme... or at least a reference or
title ...

Children of The Sun, Billy Thorpe ( The intro would make great music to a
video)
Why Me, Planet P Project
Hypmotized, Fleetwood Mac (a bit of a stretch)
Sisters of the Moon, Fleetwood Mac (even a bit more of a stretch)
Desdemona's Building a Rocket Ship, Jimmy Buffet
Mr. Spaceman, The Byrds
Also Sprach Zarathustra Opening Fanfare, Richard?Strauss?[From 2001 - A
Space Odyssey]

More to come as I think of them....

Robert Braibish


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From rwjcom at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 13:49:20 2009
From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:49:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC September Meeting?
Message-ID: <1763813574.6360061251838160552.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



Wondering if the holiday will have any impact this month's meeting schedule?? 



The holiday, and the fact that CSN is playing at the fair a few blocks down the street on Saturday night. 



Bob 

From rcdm at outlawnet.com  Tue Sep  1 13:37:14 2009
From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:37:14 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
References: <000f01ca2a96$d2bd1af0$783750d0$@net><4A9C9917.2000700@earthlink.net><000301ca2abd$3c007950$b4016bf0$@net>
	<109787.61806.qm@web43508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C05B426D03114FDBAC790621113A96F1@DANE>

And of course, anything by The Bottle Rockets.

Rod M.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Braibish 
  To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...




  A few more songs with a space/rocket theme... or at least a reference or title ...

  Children of The Sun, Billy Thorpe ( The intro would make great music to a video)
  Why Me, Planet P Project
  Hypmotized, Fleetwood Mac (a bit of a stretch)
  Sisters of the Moon, Fleetwood Mac (even a bit more of a stretch)
  Desdemona's Building a Rocket Ship, Jimmy Buffet
  Mr. Spaceman, The Byrds
  Also Sprach Zarathustra Opening Fanfare, Richard Strauss [From 2001 - A Space Odyssey]

  More to come as I think of them....

  Robert Braibish


        
  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    

From Dodd.Defibaugh at onsemi.com  Tue Sep  1 14:10:28 2009
From: Dodd.Defibaugh at onsemi.com (Dodd Defibaugh)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:10:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <C05B426D03114FDBAC790621113A96F1@DANE>
References: <000f01ca2a96$d2bd1af0$783750d0$@net><4A9C9917.2000700@earthlink.net><000301ca2abd$3c007950$b4016bf0$@net><109787.61806.qm@web43508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<C05B426D03114FDBAC790621113A96F1@DANE>
Message-ID: <94B41BB972970845A8200BF8430A910F356ADF@USMAIL.ad.onsemi.com>

...or anything by Jefferson Starship...

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Moorehead
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:37 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...

And of course, anything by The Bottle Rockets.

Rod M.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Braibish 
  To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...




  A few more songs with a space/rocket theme... or at least a reference
or title ...

  Children of The Sun, Billy Thorpe ( The intro would make great music
to a video)
  Why Me, Planet P Project
  Hypmotized, Fleetwood Mac (a bit of a stretch)
  Sisters of the Moon, Fleetwood Mac (even a bit more of a stretch)
  Desdemona's Building a Rocket Ship, Jimmy Buffet
  Mr. Spaceman, The Byrds
  Also Sprach Zarathustra Opening Fanfare, Richard Strauss [From 2001 -
A Space Odyssey]

  More to come as I think of them....

  Robert Braibish


        
  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From carl at mousetrap.com  Tue Sep  1 15:01:05 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 15:01:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC September Meeting?
In-Reply-To: <1763813574.6360061251838160552.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1763813574.6360061251838160552.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909011501y3b9da1b1sba0f3f0723ebff19@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for raising this issue, Bob. Due to the holiday weekend (and not so
much the CSN concert), the monthly Washington Aerospace meeting will be held
the following Saturday, September 12th, at the Peace Lutheran Church in
Puyallup.
Thanks again for bringing this up, Bob. I hope that the somewhat late notice
doesn't cause too much inconvenience.

 - Carl

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Bob Jimerson <rwjcom at comcast.net> wrote:

>
>
> Wondering if the holiday will have any impact this month's meeting
> schedule?
>
>
>
> The holiday, and the fact that CSN is playing at the fair a few blocks down
> the street on Saturday night.
>
>
>
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From edroweva at earthlink.net  Tue Sep  1 15:14:30 2009
From: edroweva at earthlink.net (Ed Rowe)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:14:30 -0400
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
References: <000f01ca2a96$d2bd1af0$783750d0$@net><4A9C9917.2000700@earthlink.net>	<000301ca2abd$3c007950$b4016bf0$@net><109787.61806.qm@web43508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<000801ca2b43$40d2a3f0$c277ebd0$@net>
Message-ID: <2C11763FAFEF4CDB8D5BAE6069FCE2E0@rowe3a5c1af9f7>

Venus Bound by Unknown Hinson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7_YNTQmtGg
-Ed


From glech at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 15:43:47 2009
From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:43:47 -0400
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <2C11763FAFEF4CDB8D5BAE6069FCE2E0@rowe3a5c1af9f7>
References: <000f01ca2a96$d2bd1af0$783750d0$@net><4A9C9917.2000700@earthlink.net>	<000301ca2abd$3c007950$b4016bf0$@net><109787.61806.qm@web43508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><000801ca2b43$40d2a3f0$c277ebd0$@net>
	<2C11763FAFEF4CDB8D5BAE6069FCE2E0@rowe3a5c1af9f7>
Message-ID: <8CBF96CCD77C161-574-4F25@webmail-m026.sysops.aol.com>

That one is a?hoot!


Cheers from ~
Gary



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Rowe <edroweva at earthlink.net>
To: OROC List <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:14 pm
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...



Venus Bound by Unknown Hinson?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7_YNTQmtGg?
-Ed?
?
_______________________________________________?
Rockets mailing list?
Rockets at rocketsnw.com?
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets?
? 

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Tue Sep  1 20:27:29 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:27:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot altimeters
In-Reply-To: <4A9D52B1.3040208@europa.com>
References: <cff.5e287c15.37cd52fa@aol.com> <4A9D52B1.3040208@europa.com>
Message-ID: <4A9DE621.9070304@earthlink.net>

Mike,
   Don't go nuclear.  Go matter/antimatter!!!!

Robert

Dave Connet wrote:
> Mike: go for it!!
>
> Mfreptiles at aol.com wrote:
>> That would be over 170 feet long unless we go nuclear propulsion.
>>  
>> Mike F.
>>  
>>  
>> In a message dated 8/30/2009 10:34:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
>> lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Mike?  What about the 38mm Q?
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
>


From jhadv at pacifier.com  Tue Sep  1 20:59:14 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.147.1251862016.12046.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.147.1251862016.12046.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <3727.76.105.138.130.1251863954.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com>

I do not understand why Mr. Fisher is subjected to the amount of possibly
irritating e-mail that he is.  That 38mm L 1500 was the best pushing the
envelope flight I have ever personally witnessed.  True I am a boot and
not some multi-year Balls veteran but still the statement is accurate as
written.  Outrageously nice flight.  Military grade, and those I have
seen.  Boost was fast.  Very fast.  That's the Russian methodology.  Your
electronics may be superior but it takes some defined element of time to,
orient the aircraft, acquire the target, program the weapon and then
launch.  In that time the Russians systems will have the SAM or SSM on
target with a fragmentation or fracture warhead respectively.  Their S-500
missile accelerates faster (for a limited period of time) than a Sprint
Missile!     True Mr. Fisher got to the limit of the certain components
but that's pushing the envelope.  He may find the teasing comments old
after a while.


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Tue Sep  1 21:00:56 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 21:00:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Favorite rocket songs...
In-Reply-To: <773783.92678.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <773783.92678.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9959b063e4c86c09b90002ee23938dc2.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Y'all forgot the theme from "Fireball XL-5."
+McG+


>
> Zoom A Little Zoom
> What Is The Milky Way?
> Constellation Jig
> Beep, Beep
> Why Does The Sun Shine?
> What Is A Shooting Star?
> Longitude And Latitude
> It's A Scientific Fact
> Ballad Of Sir Isaac Newton
> Friction
> Why Are Stars Of Different Colors?
> Why Do Stars Twinkle?
> What Is Gravity?
> Planet Minuet
> Why Go Up There?
> All Alone - "Once upon a time they sent a rocket to the moon"
> A Shooting Star Is Not A Star
> Ballad Of Davy Crockett (In Outer Space)
> Battle For The Planet Of The Apes
> Battle For The Planet Of They Might Be Giants
> Beneath The Planet Of The Apes
> Conquest Of The Planet Of The Apes
> Destination Moon
> Escape From The Planet Of The Apes
> For Science - "There has been a spacecraft sighted"
> Gone To The Moon
> Mission Control
> Moving To The Sun
> Nightgown Of The Sullen Moon
> Planet Of The Apes
> Return To The Planet Of The Apes
> Rocket Ship
> See The Constellation
> Space Krickets
> Space Jam
> Space Suit
> The Sun Is On Fire
> To The Bubblecraft
> Towson - the protagonist is from another planet
> Ultimate Battle For The Planet Of The Apes
> What Bothers The Spaceman
> Why Does The Sun Shine?
> ?
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Tue Sep  1 21:14:35 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 21:14:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters
In-Reply-To: <3727.76.105.138.130.1251863954.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com>
References: <mailman.147.1251862016.12046.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<3727.76.105.138.130.1251863954.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <e8f505ac9768f3d9cdab85821b19e8e1.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

The Russians don't lose sight of the objective.  Our weapons are designed
by Congress, where it's all about the money and politics.

I bet the Russian missiles don't use chips made in China either.  They're
not that stupid.

Mike, now he understands the pure essence of rocketry.

Me, I've been reduced to using a plastic nose cone to plant corn.  Sigh.

+McG+
(Some days you're just beating your head against the wall.  Other days,
someone else is beating your head with the wall.)


> I do not understand why Mr. Fisher is subjected to the amount of possibly
> irritating e-mail that he is.  That 38mm L 1500 was the best pushing the
> envelope flight I have ever personally witnessed.  True I am a boot and
> not some multi-year Balls veteran but still the statement is accurate as
> written.  Outrageously nice flight.  Military grade, and those I have
> seen.  Boost was fast.  Very fast.  That's the Russian methodology.  Your
> electronics may be superior but it takes some defined element of time to,
> orient the aircraft, acquire the target, program the weapon and then
> launch.  In that time the Russians systems will have the SAM or SSM on
> target with a fragmentation or fracture warhead respectively.  Their S-500
> missile accelerates faster (for a limited period of time) than a Sprint
> Missile!     True Mr. Fisher got to the limit of the certain components
> but that's pushing the envelope.  He may find the teasing comments old
> after a while.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 21:20:15 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 21:20:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters
References: <mailman.147.1251862016.12046.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<3727.76.105.138.130.1251863954.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <14C1330D3A7049B1B81EB4A57707C6F9@LaptopKrausert>

It all started when some ding dong promoting the August Brothers launch made 
some inaccurate claims. This ding dong made a few statements, as mentioned 
in the disclaimer, that may not be true. The such statement made by the ding 
dong stated Mr. Fisher would be flying a baby O on a motor 5181mm in length.

As I hope no one was ever offended, especially Mr. Fisher. The purpose was 
to lighten to mood and salute the August launch. Since then, we've all had 
fun with it. Steve upgraded Mr. Fisher's motor to a 38mm Q. Cool. Now 170 
feet case.

You are 100% correct. The 38mm L is something I will remember till I'm 
feeding worms. And never meant any disrespect to that amazing flight. I hope 
Mr. Fisher finds me as a friend and a jokester, versus anything else.

Did I mention the Sheridan launch September 12th and 13th. We are approved 
by the land owners.

Cheers,
Robert (the Ding Dong)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jhadv at pacifier.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters


>I do not understand why Mr. Fisher is subjected to the amount of possibly
> irritating e-mail that he is.  That 38mm L 1500 was the best pushing the
> envelope flight I have ever personally witnessed.  True I am a boot and
> not some multi-year Balls veteran but still the statement is accurate as
> written.  Outrageously nice flight.  Military grade, and those I have
> seen.  Boost was fast.  Very fast.  That's the Russian methodology.  Your
> electronics may be superior but it takes some defined element of time to,
> orient the aircraft, acquire the target, program the weapon and then
> launch.  In that time the Russians systems will have the SAM or SSM on
> target with a fragmentation or fracture warhead respectively.  Their S-500
> missile accelerates faster (for a limited period of time) than a Sprint
> Missile!     True Mr. Fisher got to the limit of the certain components
> but that's pushing the envelope.  He may find the teasing comments old
> after a while.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 21:49:26 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 00:49:26 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters
Message-ID: <bcd.54c5820c.37cf5356@aol.com>

Paul,
 
Thanks for the kind words.  
 
And to set the record straight, I don't find the comments irritating at  
all.  To the contrary, I get a laugh out of them.  Most of the  people 
providing the comments I have known and flown rockets with for many  years.  
 
The idea of trying a 38mm L was equally ridiculous the first time I  
considered it, and several experts including Dr. Frank Kosdon, and Jerry Irvine  
said that it could never be done.  The whole idea is rather comical  
especially when scaled up to the larger diameters.  In 98mm the  same l/d ratio 
makes for a 14 foot long motor.
 
One of these years in the future, someone will fly a 38mm O or Q, probably  
many lifetimes removed from all of us, when they can do it in a casing that 
 resembles an I motor. :)  Yep, probably anti-matter with a unobtainum  
casing.
 
I got the aluminum fin can for the BALLS shot done today, it turned out  
pretty good.  No way those fins are coming off.  
 
BTW, after proper data analysis, the motor works out to ~L5000, .5 second  
burn with sliver burning tapering off to the 1.5 second mark, peak pressure 
near  3000psi.
 
Mike F.
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/1/2009 8:59:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jhadv at pacifier.com writes:

I do not  understand why Mr. Fisher is subjected to the amount of possibly
irritating  e-mail that he is.  That 38mm L 1500 was the best pushing the
envelope  flight I have ever personally witnessed.  True I am a boot and
not  some multi-year Balls veteran but still the statement is accurate  as
written.  Outrageously nice flight.  Military grade, and those  I have
seen.  Boost was fast.  Very fast.  That's the  Russian methodology.  Your
electronics may be superior but it takes  some defined element of time to,
orient the aircraft, acquire the target,  program the weapon and then
launch.  In that time the Russians systems  will have the SAM or SSM on
target with a fragmentation or fracture warhead  respectively.  Their S-500
missile accelerates faster (for a limited  period of time) than a Sprint
Missile!     True Mr. Fisher  got to the limit of the certain components
but that's pushing the  envelope.  He may find the teasing comments old
after a  while.

_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 21:50:40 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 00:50:40 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters
Message-ID: <c36.58c26582.37cf53a0@aol.com>

Now that is a sad mental picture. :(  
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/1/2009 9:15:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes:

Me, I've  been reduced to using a plastic nose cone to plant corn.   Sigh.



From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 05:56:19 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 05:56:19 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters
Message-ID: <235258.1251896179840.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Um, Paul (is that correct?  hard to tell when y'all shortcut your posts and don't put down a signature - who are you?) - my sincerest apologies for the over-the-top commentary and just for the record - I have the highest regard for the OROC prez and the level of humor injected in his posts - it's a tough responsibility to shoulder and he's doing a superb job IMO.  As for Mike - well, he has thicker reptilian skin then you give him credit for - look at the archives for my opinion - "state-of-the-art" is finally being recognized.  Lighten up - I owe you a beer.   /Steve  

-----Original Message-----
>From: jhadv at pacifier.com
>Sent: Sep 1, 2009 8:59 PM
>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters
>
>I do not understand why Mr. Fisher is subjected to the amount of possibly
>irritating e-mail that he is.  That 38mm L 1500 was the best pushing the
>envelope flight I have ever personally witnessed.  True I am a boot and
>not some multi-year Balls veteran but still the statement is accurate as
>written.  Outrageously nice flight.  Military grade, and those I have
>seen.  Boost was fast.  Very fast.  That's the Russian methodology.  Your
>electronics may be superior but it takes some defined element of time to,
>orient the aircraft, acquire the target, program the weapon and then
>launch.  In that time the Russians systems will have the SAM or SSM on
>target with a fragmentation or fracture warhead respectively.  Their S-500
>missile accelerates faster (for a limited period of time) than a Sprint
>Missile!     True Mr. Fisher got to the limit of the certain components
>but that's pushing the envelope.  He may find the teasing comments old
>after a while.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 05:58:07 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 05:58:07 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
Message-ID: <4A9E6BDF.5030009@earthlink.net>

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html

WASHINGTON ? A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I 
rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its 
contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the 
glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a 
statement.

Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or 
software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of 
the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.

"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are 
being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault 
tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and 
replacement plans for potential suspect items."

The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space 
shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left 
in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's 
nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an 
auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.

The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.

NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the 
ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to 
launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's 
replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin 
operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the 
Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.

From sales at pvconly.com  Wed Sep  2 06:55:09 2009
From: sales at pvconly.com (sales at pvconly.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:55:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
	10
In-Reply-To: <4A9E6BDF.5030009@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <385738.13878.qm@web1213.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
?
The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
?
Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
?




--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:


From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM


http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html

WASHINGTON ? A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.

Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.

"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."

The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.

The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.

NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Wed Sep  2 07:25:29 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:25:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
	10
References: <4A9E6BDF.5030009@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300272@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

I was in the VIP viewing area for the scrubbed test last week.  They got all the way down to T-minus 20 seconds before they scrubbed the launch becuase of a failure in the auxiliary hydraulics to the Thrust Vectoring System.  Arrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!  So Close!!!!!!
 
Too bad it was a one time opportunity to be there.  I'm not important enough to get invited back....
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Hammer
Sent: Wed 9/2/2009 5:58 AM
To: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10



http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html

WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I
rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its
contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the
glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a
statement.

Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or
software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of
the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.

"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are
being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault
tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and
replacement plans for potential suspect items."

The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left
in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's
nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an
auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.

The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.

NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the
ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to
launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's
replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin
operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the
Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From absworld at cet.com  Wed Sep  2 08:02:54 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:02:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
	Sept.	10
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300272@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <4A9E6BDF.5030009@earthlink.net>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300272@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <019501ca2bde$854d4c10$8fe7e430$@com>

I watched for over an hour thinking "Sure wish I was there".
Once they scrubbed, it changed to "thank gawd I wasn't there".

Just being there is a big deal thinks me.

Dang rocket stuff anyway.

Bob Yanecek

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:25 AM
To: Hammer; NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
10

I was in the VIP viewing area for the scrubbed test last week.  They got all
the way down to T-minus 20 seconds before they scrubbed the launch becuase
of a failure in the auxiliary hydraulics to the Thrust Vectoring System.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!  So Close!!!!!!
 
Too bad it was a one time opportunity to be there.  I'm not important enough
to get invited back....
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Hammer
Sent: Wed 9/2/2009 5:58 AM
To: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10



http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html

WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I
rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its
contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the
glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a
statement.

Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or
software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of
the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.

"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are
being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault
tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and
replacement plans for potential suspect items."

The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left
in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's
nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an
auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.

The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.

NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the
ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to
launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's
replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin
operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the
Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 08:36:09 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:36:09 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
	Sept.	10
Message-ID: <3415187.1251905769329.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google?  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: sales at pvconly.com
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>
>The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>?
>The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>?
>Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
>?
>
>
>
>
>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
>To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>
>
>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>
>WASHINGTON ? A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>
>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>
>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>
>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>
>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>
>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 08:37:14 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:37:14 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
	Sept.	10
Message-ID: <23276057.1251905835096.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

At the right place at the wrong time - bummer dude - I feel the pain.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 7:25 AM
>To: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>
>I was in the VIP viewing area for the scrubbed test last week.  They got all the way down to T-minus 20 seconds before they scrubbed the launch becuase of a failure in the auxiliary hydraulics to the Thrust Vectoring System.  Arrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!  So Close!!!!!!
> 
>Too bad it was a one time opportunity to be there.  I'm not important enough to get invited back....
> 
>Peter Schurke
>Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
>Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
>Ingraham High School
>1819 N 135th St.
>Seattle, WA  98133
>
>________________________________
>
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Hammer
>Sent: Wed 9/2/2009 5:58 AM
>To: NW Rocketry mailing list
>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
>
>
>
>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>
>WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I
>rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its
>contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the
>glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a
>statement.
>
>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or
>software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of
>the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>
>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are
>being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault
>tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and
>replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>
>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
>shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left
>in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's
>nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an
>auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>
>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>
>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the
>ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to
>launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's
>replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin
>operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the
>Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net  Wed Sep  2 10:40:10 2009
From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (Bryan Whitemarsh)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:40:10 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 DVD
Message-ID: <7420DD5371C14E64BE8CFE1B42B714AF@BryanDesktop>

Hello All:

Just got my copy of the FITS 2009 DVD.  Some great footage on a pretty
polished DVD production.  Good to see some of the launches from a very busy
weekend.  Great video of U4EA, including onboard.  A couple of nice
Kate-equipped flights from Vern, including onboard video as well.  Really
well done Kent!  Well worth the 25 bucks.  If anyone hasn't gotten a copy
yet, it's definitely worth the price and helps support Washington Aerospace
Club.  Looking forward to October! 
 
Bryan Whitemarsh

From sb at berfield.com  Wed Sep  2 11:36:13 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:36:13 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters
Message-ID: <W1641327970293051251916573@webmail55>

Whoof - now THAT I'd like to see. I really need to get to BALLS some day.


-----Original Message-----
 I got the aluminum fin can for the BALLS shot done today, it turned out pretty good. No way those fins are coming off. BTW, after proper data analysis, the motor works out to ~L5000, .5 second burn with sliver burning tapering off to the 1.5 second mark, peak pressure near 3000psi. 


From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Wed Sep  2 11:49:45 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:49:45 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
	10
In-Reply-To: <3415187.1251905769329.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <3415187.1251905769329.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB12@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes we can't tell you about"

Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept. 10

I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google?  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: sales at pvconly.com
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>
>The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>?
>The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>?
>Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
>?
>
>
>
>
>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>10
>To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>
>
>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>
>WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>
>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>
>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>
>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>
>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>
>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From fred.azinger at intel.com  Wed Sep  2 11:53:05 2009
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:53:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
	Sept.	10
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB12@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <3415187.1251905769329.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB12@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB5948C0B8@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or the aft grain? 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10

According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes we can't tell you about"

Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept. 10

I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google?  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: sales at pvconly.com
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>
>The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>?
>The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>?
>Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
>?
>
>
>
>
>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>10
>To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>
>
>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>
>WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>
>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>
>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>
>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>
>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>
>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 12:47:36 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:47:36 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
	Sept.	10
Message-ID: <4983148.1251920856652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

All grains?  Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the funding hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this is just a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.

Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated candles in general.  Thanks for the info Pete.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM
>To: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>, "steve-c at ix.netcom.com" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>, "sales at pvconly.com" <sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>
>Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or the aft grain? 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
>To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
>
>According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes we can't tell you about"
>
>Pete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
>To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept. 10
>
>I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google?  /Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: sales at pvconly.com
>>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>>
>>The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>?
>>The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>?
>>Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
>>?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>>10
>>To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>
>>
>>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>
>>WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>
>>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>
>>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>>
>>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>>
>>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>
>>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Sep  2 12:58:54 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:58:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept.	10
In-Reply-To: <4983148.1251920856652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <4983148.1251920856652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CF77132A58584CCAAE4885AE1CED9A2A@Mobile2>

Hmmm, could make sense to have different formulations in different segments.
The environment in the forward grain is much different that in the aft
grain. slower aft and faster forward would make sense in a long motor to off
set erosive burning.


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM
To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke,Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing
list; Hammer
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept.
10

All grains?  Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the funding
hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this is just
a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.

Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA
will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated
candles in general.  Thanks for the info Pete.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM
>To: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>,
"steve-c at ix.netcom.com" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>, "sales at pvconly.com"
<sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>,
Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
10
>
>Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or the
aft grain? 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
>To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; 
>Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for 
>Sept. 10
>
>According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not
"just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different
propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're
using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes
we can't tell you about"
>
>Pete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of 
>steve-c at ix.netcom.com
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
>To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted 
>forSept. 10
>
>I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the 
>payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  
>Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a 
>smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle 
>SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in 
>learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of 
>Google?  /Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: sales at pvconly.com
>>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer
<hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
Sept.	10
>>
>>The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is
working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>?
>>The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring
that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on
the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>?
>>Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and
their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on
these modified SRBs?
>>?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>>10
>>To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>
>>
>>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>
>>WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I
rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor,
Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced
the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>
>>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software
was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the
investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>
>>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are
being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree
approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement
plans for potential suspect items."
>>
>>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in
the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle
failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power
unit on the booster had failed.
>>
>>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>
>>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built
solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new
Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its
retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier
than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares
I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Wed Sep  2 13:03:45 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:03:45 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket
	Targeted for Sept. 10
In-Reply-To: <4983148.1251920856652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <4983148.1251920856652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB13@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.

I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.

As the folks at ATK explained it (Caveat:  they're the ones making the stuff, so of course they have a ultra positive spin) they are combining the "safest position for the astronauts" (capsule atop the stack) from the Saturn design with the "flight proven element with big oomph" part derived from the shuttle SRB.  They claim it's the "Safest design yet".

Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM
To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke, Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
Subject: [Possible SPAM] RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
Importance: Low

All grains?  Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the funding hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this is just a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.

Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated candles in general.  Thanks for the info Pete.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM
>To: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>, "steve-c at ix.netcom.com" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>, "sales at pvconly.com" <sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>
>Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or the aft grain? 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
>To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; 
>Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for 
>Sept. 10
>
>According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes we can't tell you about"
>
>Pete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of 
>steve-c at ix.netcom.com
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
>To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted 
>forSept. 10
>
>I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the 
>payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  
>Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a 
>smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle 
>SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in 
>learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of 
>Google?  /Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: sales at pvconly.com
>>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>>
>>The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>?
>>The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>?
>>Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
>>?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>>10
>>To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>
>>
>>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>
>>WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>
>>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>
>>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>>
>>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>>
>>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>
>>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From fred.azinger at intel.com  Wed Sep  2 13:04:42 2009
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:04:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept.	10
In-Reply-To: <CF77132A58584CCAAE4885AE1CED9A2A@Mobile2>
References: <4983148.1251920856652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<CF77132A58584CCAAE4885AE1CED9A2A@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB5948C129@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

Exactly -- burn modifiers up front -- erosion controllers in the aft.... 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:59 PM
To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; Azinger, Fred; 'Schurke,Peter'; sales at pvconly.com; 'NW Rocketry mailing list'; 'Hammer'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept. 10

Hmmm, could make sense to have different formulations in different segments.
The environment in the forward grain is much different that in the aft
grain. slower aft and faster forward would make sense in a long motor to off
set erosive burning.


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM
To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke,Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing
list; Hammer
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept.
10

All grains?  Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the funding
hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this is just
a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.

Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA
will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated
candles in general.  Thanks for the info Pete.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM
>To: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>,
"steve-c at ix.netcom.com" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>, "sales at pvconly.com"
<sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>,
Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
10
>
>Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or the
aft grain? 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
>To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; 
>Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for 
>Sept. 10
>
>According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not
"just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different
propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're
using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes
we can't tell you about"
>
>Pete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of 
>steve-c at ix.netcom.com
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
>To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted 
>forSept. 10
>
>I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the 
>payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  
>Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a 
>smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle 
>SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in 
>learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of 
>Google?  /Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: sales at pvconly.com
>>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer
<hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
Sept.	10
>>
>>The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is
working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>?
>>The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring
that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on
the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>?
>>Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and
their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on
these modified SRBs?
>>?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>>10
>>To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>
>>
>>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>
>>WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I
rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor,
Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced
the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>
>>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software
was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the
investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>
>>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are
being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree
approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement
plans for potential suspect items."
>>
>>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in
the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle
failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power
unit on the booster had failed.
>>
>>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>
>>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built
solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new
Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its
retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier
than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares
I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 13:25:31 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:25:31 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket
 Targeted for Sept. 10
Message-ID: <32846796.1251923131160.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Undoubtedly, technology drives the safety measures - it would be so cool to "play" w/ such sophisticated systems where the fail-safe element is some sort of snazzy pyro-actuated mechanism.  It really boils down to re-use hardware cost and seemingly that is one benefit proven in the shuttle SRB program.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 1:03 PM
>To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com, "Azinger,Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>, sales at pvconly.com, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: RE: [Possible SPAM]  RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
>
>My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.
>
>I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.
>
>As the folks at ATK explained it (Caveat:  they're the ones making the stuff, so of course they have a ultra positive spin) they are combining the "safest position for the astronauts" (capsule atop the stack) from the Saturn design with the "flight proven element with big oomph" part derived from the shuttle SRB.  They claim it's the "Safest design yet".
>
>Pete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM
>To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke, Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>Subject: [Possible SPAM] RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
>Importance: Low
>
>All grains?  Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the funding hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this is just a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.
>
>Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated candles in general.  Thanks for the info Pete.  /Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM
>>To: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>, "steve-c at ix.netcom.com" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>, "sales at pvconly.com" <sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>>
>>Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or the aft grain? 
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
>>To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; 
>>Hammer
>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for 
>>Sept. 10
>>
>>According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes we can't tell you about"
>>
>>Pete
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of 
>>steve-c at ix.netcom.com
>>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
>>To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted 
>>forSept. 10
>>
>>I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the 
>>payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  
>>Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a 
>>smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle 
>>SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in 
>>learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of 
>>Google?  /Steve
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: sales at pvconly.com
>>>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>>To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>>>
>>>The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>>?
>>>The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>>?
>>>Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
>>>?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>>>10
>>>To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>>Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>>
>>>WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>>
>>>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>>
>>>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>>>
>>>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>>>
>>>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>>
>>>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Rockets mailing list
>>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Rockets mailing list
>>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>  
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>


From jim at discountrocketry.com  Wed Sep  2 14:29:27 2009
From: jim at discountrocketry.com (Jim Myres)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:29:27 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Motor Availability at XPRS
Message-ID: <20090902212927.IKGF16492.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

Dear, Rockets North West!

Discount Rocketry will not be attending XPRS. However, we are shipping motors to anyone who wants to take advantage of our high power motor 30-50% off clearance sale.
We should be able to get your order to you in plenty of time for XPRS if you get your order in this week.

Please see the attached PDF file with 50% off Warp-N and 30% off everything else including the L, M or N motors. Shipping will be free for any order over $500.
We encourage you to pass the motor list around to any friends you may want to combine your orders with to meet the free HAMAT shipping mnimum.

Thanks,
Jim Myres
Discount Rocketry

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 19:51:44 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:51:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
 10
In-Reply-To: <3415187.1251905769329.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <3415187.1251905769329.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4A9F2F40.9010700@earthlink.net>

http://www.space.com/news/080118-nasa-new-rocket-shake.html

NASA's Next Rocket May Shake Too Much

By Seth Borenstein
AP Science Writer
posted: 18 January 2008

(excerpt)
WASHINGTON (AP) - NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem 
in a spacecraft, this time in a moon rocket that hasn't even been built 
yet.

Engineers are concerned that the new rocket meant to replace the space 
shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the moon could shake 
violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying 
the entire vehicle.

"They know it's a real problem,'' said Carnegie Mellon University 
engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues 
with NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole 
structure, and they've got to solve it.''

If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage 
of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit.

The shaking problem, which is common to solid rocket boosters, involves 
pulses of added acceleration caused by gas vortices in the rocket 
similar to the wake that develops behind a fast-moving boat, said 
Arenas, who has researched vibration and space-launch issues.

Those vortices happen to match the natural vibrating frequencies of the 
motor's combustion chamber, and the combination causes the shaking.

Senior managers were told of the findings last fall, but NASA did not 
talk about them publicly until the AP filed a Freedom of Information Act 
request earlier this month and the watchdog Web site Nasawatch.com 
submitted detailed engineering-oriented questions.

The response to those questions, given to both Nasawatch and AP, were 
shared with outside experts, who judged it a serious problem.


steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote:
> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google?  /Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
>   
>> From: sales at pvconly.com
>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>>
>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>  
>> The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>  
>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>
>>
>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>
>> WASHINGTON ? A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>
>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>
>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>>
>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>>
>> The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>
>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>>     
>
>
>   


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Sep  2 20:11:31 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 20:11:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
	10
In-Reply-To: <4A9F2F40.9010700@earthlink.net>
References: <3415187.1251905769329.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4A9F2F40.9010700@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A441931AC15F489591177E88CD99BC91@Mobile2>

Harmonics on a grand scale! That would be a tough nut to crack. On our
smaller motors we solve this with metals to break up the vibration waves,
kind of like a baffle in a tank. Can't remember the term off hand......


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Hammer
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:52 PM
To: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
10

http://www.space.com/news/080118-nasa-new-rocket-shake.html

NASA's Next Rocket May Shake Too Much

By Seth Borenstein
AP Science Writer
posted: 18 January 2008

(excerpt)
WASHINGTON (AP) - NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in
a spacecraft, this time in a moon rocket that hasn't even been built yet.

Engineers are concerned that the new rocket meant to replace the space
shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the moon could shake violently
during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire
vehicle.

"They know it's a real problem,'' said Carnegie Mellon University
engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with
NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure,
and they've got to solve it.''

If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of
the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit.

The shaking problem, which is common to solid rocket boosters, involves
pulses of added acceleration caused by gas vortices in the rocket similar to
the wake that develops behind a fast-moving boat, said Arenas, who has
researched vibration and space-launch issues.

Those vortices happen to match the natural vibrating frequencies of the
motor's combustion chamber, and the combination causes the shaking.

Senior managers were told of the findings last fall, but NASA did not talk
about them publicly until the AP filed a Freedom of Information Act request
earlier this month and the watchdog Web site Nasawatch.com submitted
detailed engineering-oriented questions.

The response to those questions, given to both Nasawatch and AP, were shared
with outside experts, who judged it a serious problem.


steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote:
> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the
payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.
Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a
smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB
flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in learning more
- any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google?  /Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
>   
>> From: sales at pvconly.com
>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer
<hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
Sept.	10
>>
>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is
working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>  
>> The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring
that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on
the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>  
>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors and
their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on
these modified SRBs?
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
10
>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>
>>
>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>
>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I
rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor,
Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced
the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>
>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or
software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the
investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>
>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are
being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree
approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement
plans for potential suspect items."
>>
>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in
the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle
failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power
unit on the booster had failed.
>>
>> The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>
>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built
solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new
Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its
retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier
than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares
I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>>     
>
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 20:29:44 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 20:29:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda September 3rd, 2009
Message-ID: <5AEDC7FBE0404F4A894CDE6E0D975D0D@LaptopKrausert>

The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on September 3rd 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. 

Where: Giovanni's [ Map ]
12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005

Agenda:
7:30 : Welcome New Members
7:35 : Sheridan Launch plans/readiness/rules [Krausert]
7:50 : OROC Land Fund Raiser Discussion / ~$40,000 [Krausert]

If there was ever a meeting to attend, this might be one. I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday September 3rd at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. 

Cheers,
Robert
OregonRocketry President

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 20:42:22 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:42:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
 10
In-Reply-To: <A441931AC15F489591177E88CD99BC91@Mobile2>
References: <3415187.1251905769329.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<4A9F2F40.9010700@earthlink.net>
	<A441931AC15F489591177E88CD99BC91@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <4A9F3B1E.7040000@earthlink.net>

Shake, rattle and roll, baby!!!
Resonance propulsion vibration was commonly referred to a ?pogo effect? 
in the early days of large scale rocketry. You would think that someone 
at NASA would have remembered about that.
Capt. Obvious please pick up the white courtesy telephone. Your 
assistance is needed.

Maybe the problem is that the flux capacitor is modulating too much and 
the dilithium crystals have cracked.. Maybe they'll reverse the polarity 
on it for this static test to see if it helps. A couple of really large 
trim tabs and a pogo stick should solve the shakes the Ares has.

I bet if they just start over with a blank piece of paper and a nice 
slide rule (aka "friction calculator) they might get to the Moon even 
faster. The Saturn V first stage worked just fine during the 60?s and 
70?s, was in fact very reliable and efficient so let's use that instead. 
We could throw up into LEO probably two or three space stations in the 
time it took to get the ISS up there using that workhorse.

Today's NASA is not the NASA of the 1960s.
The Old Guard (personified by Chris Craft, Gene Krantz, and John Aaron) 
were not afraid to take risks and do seat of the pants engineering.
Today's NASA is just a bloated bureaucracy that is risk averse to 
anything...

The way it looks SpaceX is going to beat them to the Moon and Mars 
without turning any astronauts into jelly.

Robert

Scott T Bowers wrote:
> Harmonics on a grand scale! That would be a tough nut to crack. On our
> smaller motors we solve this with metals to break up the vibration waves,
> kind of like a baffle in a tank. Can't remember the term off hand......
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Hammer
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:52 PM
> To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
> 10
>
> http://www.space.com/news/080118-nasa-new-rocket-shake.html
>
> NASA's Next Rocket May Shake Too Much
>
> By Seth Borenstein
> AP Science Writer
> posted: 18 January 2008
>
> (excerpt)
> WASHINGTON (AP) - NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem in
> a spacecraft, this time in a moon rocket that hasn't even been built yet.
>
> Engineers are concerned that the new rocket meant to replace the space
> shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the moon could shake violently
> during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire
> vehicle.
>
> "They know it's a real problem,'' said Carnegie Mellon University
> engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues with
> NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole structure,
> and they've got to solve it.''
>
> If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage of
> the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit.
>
> The shaking problem, which is common to solid rocket boosters, involves
> pulses of added acceleration caused by gas vortices in the rocket similar to
> the wake that develops behind a fast-moving boat, said Arenas, who has
> researched vibration and space-launch issues.
>
> Those vortices happen to match the natural vibrating frequencies of the
> motor's combustion chamber, and the combination causes the shaking.
>
> Senior managers were told of the findings last fall, but NASA did not talk
> about them publicly until the AP filed a Freedom of Information Act request
> earlier this month and the watchdog Web site Nasawatch.com submitted
> detailed engineering-oriented questions.
>
> The response to those questions, given to both Nasawatch and AP, were shared
> with outside experts, who judged it a serious problem.
>
>
> steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote:
>   
>> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the
>>     
> payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.
> Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a
> smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB
> flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in learning more
> - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google?  /Steve
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>>   
>>     
>>> From: sales at pvconly.com
>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer
>>>       
> <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>   
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
>>>       
> Sept.	10
>   
>>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is
>>>       
> working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>   
>>>  
>>> The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring
>>>       
> that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on
> the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>   
>>>  
>>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors and
>>>       
> their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on
> these modified SRBs?
>   
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
>>>       
> 10
>   
>>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>>
>>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I
>>>       
> rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor,
> Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced
> the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>   
>>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or
>>>       
> software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the
> investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>   
>>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are
>>>       
> being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree
> approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement
> plans for potential suspect items."
>   
>>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
>>>       
> shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in
> the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle
> failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power
> unit on the booster had failed.
>   
>>> The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>>
>>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built
>>>       
> solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new
> Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its
> retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier
> than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares
> I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>   
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>  
>>>     
>>>       
>>   
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   


From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Wed Sep  2 19:57:52 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:57:52 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
	10
In-Reply-To: <4A9F2F40.9010700@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1A0736BA69324354921062B21D93C382@steve>

Excellent!  Thanks for the link.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Hammer
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:52 PM
To: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
Sept. 10

http://www.space.com/news/080118-nasa-new-rocket-shake.html

NASA's Next Rocket May Shake Too Much

By Seth Borenstein
AP Science Writer
posted: 18 January 2008

(excerpt)
WASHINGTON (AP) - NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem

in a spacecraft, this time in a moon rocket that hasn't even been built 
yet.

Engineers are concerned that the new rocket meant to replace the space 
shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the moon could shake 
violently during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying 
the entire vehicle.

"They know it's a real problem,'' said Carnegie Mellon University 
engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues 
with NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole 
structure, and they've got to solve it.''

If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage 
of the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit.

The shaking problem, which is common to solid rocket boosters, involves 
pulses of added acceleration caused by gas vortices in the rocket 
similar to the wake that develops behind a fast-moving boat, said 
Arenas, who has researched vibration and space-launch issues.

Those vortices happen to match the natural vibrating frequencies of the 
motor's combustion chamber, and the combination causes the shaking.

Senior managers were told of the findings last fall, but NASA did not 
talk about them publicly until the AP filed a Freedom of Information Act

request earlier this month and the watchdog Web site Nasawatch.com 
submitted detailed engineering-oriented questions.

The response to those questions, given to both Nasawatch and AP, were 
shared with outside experts, who judged it a serious problem.


steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote:
> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless
the payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a
guess.  Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing
(perhaps on a smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from
existing shuttle SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be
interested in learning more - any web links available or are we at the
mercy of Google?  /Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
>   
>> From: sales at pvconly.com
>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer
<hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
Sept.	10
>>
>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is
working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>  
>> The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability
occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is
currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>  
>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors
and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is
used on these modified SRBs?
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
Sept. 10
>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>
>>
>>
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>
>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new
Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its
contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the
glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a
statement.
>>
>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or
software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of
the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>
>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and
are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed
fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal
and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>>
>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left
in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's
nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an
auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>>
>> The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>
>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the
ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to
launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's
replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin
operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the
Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct.
31.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>>     
>
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From t.j.doll at att.net  Wed Sep  2 21:01:38 2009
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 04:01:38 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket	Targeted for Sept.
	10
Message-ID: <090320090401.12870.4A9F3FA2000E8D930000324622218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

>My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.
>
>I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.
>

OK, where were you guys a couple months ago, when I got chastised for questioning the wisdom of man-rated solid rockets?

Yes, this is an overly simplistic analysis, but the failure of a liquid fuel rocket motor has never killed the astronaut passengers.  

The same can not be said for solid rockets.

Tim

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 21:13:33 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:13:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket	Targeted for Sept.
 10
In-Reply-To: <090320090401.12870.4A9F3FA2000E8D930000324622218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
References: <090320090401.12870.4A9F3FA2000E8D930000324622218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
Message-ID: <4A9F426D.2070903@earthlink.net>

"Yes, this is an overly simplistic analysis, but the failure of a liquid fuel rocket motor has never killed the astronaut passengers.  

The same can not be said for solid rockets."


Like this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wan_Hu
According to legend Wan Hu (d. ca. 1500) was a minor Chinese official of 
the Ming dynasty who attempted to become the world's first recorded 
"astronaut". The crater Wan-Hoo on the far side of the Moon is named 
after him.

The earliest known mention of it is an unreferenced description in 
"Rockets and Jets" by American author Herbert S. Zim in 1945

"Early in the sixteenth century, Wan decided to take advantage of 
China's advanced rocket and fireworks technology to launch himself into 
outer space. He supposedly had a chair built with forty-seven rockets 
attached. On the day of lift-off, Wan, splendidly attired, climbed into 
his rocket chair and forty seven servants lit the fuses and then hastily 
ran for cover. There was a huge explosion. When the smoke cleared, Wan 
and the chair were gone, and was said never to have been seen again."

The Discovery Channel's show MythBusters attempted in the 2004 episode 
Episode 24 ? "Ming Dynasty Astronaut" to recreate Wan Hu's flight using 
materials that would have been available to him. The chair exploded on 
the launch pad, with the crash test dummy showing what would be severe 
burns. An attempt was also made using a chair with modern rockets 
attached, however, the uncontrollable craft proved that there were far 
too many complications for such a thing to have succeeded. It was 
determined that small rockets that can be strapped to a chair cannot 
provide sufficient thrust to effectively lift it, giving the legend the 
label of myth "busted". It should be noted that the view the crew 
members had of the first test as it was performed matched what the 
legend said; after the smoke from the explosion had cleared, both Buster 
(the crash-test dummy) and the chair had disappeared, though Buster and 
the remains of the chair were found next to the 'launch-pad'.



t.j.doll at att.net wrote:
>> My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.
>>
>> I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.
>>
>>     
>
> OK, where were you guys a couple months ago, when I got chastised for questioning the wisdom of man-rated solid rockets?
>
> Yes, this is an overly simplistic analysis, but the failure of a liquid fuel rocket motor has never killed the astronaut passengers.  
>
> The same can not be said for solid rockets.
>
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Thu Sep  3 00:58:38 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 00:58:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
 10
In-Reply-To: <4A9F3B1E.7040000@earthlink.net>
References: <3415187.1251905769329.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<4A9F2F40.9010700@earthlink.net>
	<A441931AC15F489591177E88CD99BC91@Mobile2>
	<4A9F3B1E.7040000@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <70ebdbf00f25df41aa2531e5cc8f1126.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

The "pogo effect" is a characteristic problem of large liquid fuel
rockets.  It's related to, but somewhat different than, the "water hammer"
effect in the plumbing of tall buildings.  Has to do with liquid
propellant sloshing up and down.  Avoidable by careful design and special
valves.

The problem with Aries is, well, simply a matter of it blowing its own
horn.  Literally.  The size of the internal cavity has a natural resonant
frequency which just happens to match the natural frequency of a certain
type of combustion instability.  Voila!  A self-powered trumpet the size
of a large corn silo.  EX'ers know what happens when you have a rocket
motor the size of a flute that does that...

But not to worry.  NASA has been watching reruns of very old Saturday
Night Live shows where the one character comes on, acting as if obviously
in a drug-induced state of near-psychosis, and says: "I can handle it!
I...I...I...caaaan hhhanddlle ittt..."

It's a problem common to people and organizations that are used to blowing
their own horn.
+McG+


> Shake, rattle and roll, baby!!!
> Resonance propulsion vibration was commonly referred to a ?pogo effect?
> in the early days of large scale rocketry. You would think that someone
> at NASA would have remembered about that.
> Capt. Obvious please pick up the white courtesy telephone. Your
> assistance is needed.
>
> Maybe the problem is that the flux capacitor is modulating too much and
> the dilithium crystals have cracked.. Maybe they'll reverse the polarity
> on it for this static test to see if it helps. A couple of really large
> trim tabs and a pogo stick should solve the shakes the Ares has.
>
> I bet if they just start over with a blank piece of paper and a nice
> slide rule (aka "friction calculator) they might get to the Moon even
> faster. The Saturn V first stage worked just fine during the 60?s and
> 70?s, was in fact very reliable and efficient so let's use that instead.
> We could throw up into LEO probably two or three space stations in the
> time it took to get the ISS up there using that workhorse.
>
> Today's NASA is not the NASA of the 1960s.
> The Old Guard (personified by Chris Craft, Gene Krantz, and John Aaron)
> were not afraid to take risks and do seat of the pants engineering.
> Today's NASA is just a bloated bureaucracy that is risk averse to
> anything...
>
> The way it looks SpaceX is going to beat them to the Moon and Mars
> without turning any astronauts into jelly.
>
> Robert
>
> Scott T Bowers wrote:
>> Harmonics on a grand scale! That would be a tough nut to crack. On our
>> smaller motors we solve this with metals to break up the vibration
>> waves,
>> kind of like a baffle in a tank. Can't remember the term off hand......
>>
>>
>> Scott T. Bowers
>> www.scottsrockets.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Hammer
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:52 PM
>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
>> Sept.
>> 10
>>
>> http://www.space.com/news/080118-nasa-new-rocket-shake.html
>>
>> NASA's Next Rocket May Shake Too Much
>>
>> By Seth Borenstein
>> AP Science Writer
>> posted: 18 January 2008
>>
>> (excerpt)
>> WASHINGTON (AP) - NASA is wrestling with a potentially dangerous problem
>> in
>> a spacecraft, this time in a moon rocket that hasn't even been built
>> yet.
>>
>> Engineers are concerned that the new rocket meant to replace the space
>> shuttle and send astronauts on their way to the moon could shake
>> violently
>> during the first few minutes of flight, possibly destroying the entire
>> vehicle.
>>
>> "They know it's a real problem,'' said Carnegie Mellon University
>> engineering professor Paul Fischbeck, who has consulted on risk issues
>> with
>> NASA in the past. "This thing is going to shake apart the whole
>> structure,
>> and they've got to solve it.''
>>
>> If not corrected, the shaking would arise from the powerful first stage
>> of
>> the Ares I rocket, which will lift the Orion crew capsule into orbit.
>>
>> The shaking problem, which is common to solid rocket boosters, involves
>> pulses of added acceleration caused by gas vortices in the rocket
>> similar to
>> the wake that develops behind a fast-moving boat, said Arenas, who has
>> researched vibration and space-launch issues.
>>
>> Those vortices happen to match the natural vibrating frequencies of the
>> motor's combustion chamber, and the combination causes the shaking.
>>
>> Senior managers were told of the findings last fall, but NASA did not
>> talk
>> about them publicly until the AP filed a Freedom of Information Act
>> request
>> earlier this month and the watchdog Web site Nasawatch.com submitted
>> detailed engineering-oriented questions.
>>
>> The response to those questions, given to both Nasawatch and AP, were
>> shared
>> with outside experts, who judged it a serious problem.
>>
>>
>> steve-c at ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>
>>> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the
>>>
>> payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.
>> Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a
>> smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle
>> SRB
>> flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in learning
>> more
>> - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google?  /Steve
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: sales at pvconly.com
>>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer
>>>>
>> <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
>>>>
>> Sept.	10
>>
>>>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is
>>>>
>> working with NASA on the ARES motors.
>>
>>>>
>>>> The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability
>>>> occuring
>>>>
>> that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently
>> on
>> the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>
>>>>
>>>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors
>>>> and
>>>>
>> their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is
>> used on
>> these modified SRBs?
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
>>>> Sept.
>>>>
>> 10
>>
>>>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>>>
>>>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares
>>>> I
>>>>
>> rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its
>> contractor,
>> Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that
>> forced
>> the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>
>>>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or
>>>>
>> software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of
>> the
>> investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>
>>>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and
>>>> are
>>>>
>> being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault
>> tree
>> approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and
>> replacement
>> plans for potential suspect items."
>>
>>>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
>>>>
>> shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left
>> in
>> the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's
>> nozzle
>> failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power
>> unit on the booster had failed.
>>
>>>> The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>>>
>>>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the
>>>> ATK-built
>>>>
>> solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the
>> new
>> Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for
>> its
>> retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no
>> earlier
>> than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called
>> Ares
>> I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Thu Sep  3 01:16:02 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:16:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Parrot Altimeters
In-Reply-To: <c36.58c26582.37cf53a0@aol.com>
References: <c36.58c26582.37cf53a0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <cff4f392d113b16365e2f58efd19da75.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

It was an expedient solution.  Found a nose cone in my parts box that had
just the right angle near the tip.  Worked great.  And I could still make
it part of a rocket some day.

The good news is that I've already put 22 quarts of corn in my freezer
with at least 10 or so left to go.

But it is indeed a sad commentary on what's happened to my
never-too-robust hobby rocket efforts.  Every year I think less like a
rocketeer and more like Scrat.

Sigh.  Damn reality anyway.  Where's *my* trillion-dollar bailout?  Just
one measly little trillion dollars, that's all I'm asking, I'll split it
with Mike F. and Fred A. and we wouldn't need NASA any more!

+McG+


> Now that is a sad mental picture. :(
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 9/1/2009 9:15:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes:
>
> Me, I've  been reduced to using a plastic nose cone to plant corn.   Sigh.
>
>
>



From fred.azinger at intel.com  Thu Sep  3 09:36:23 2009
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 09:36:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept.	10
In-Reply-To: <4689C1A7CC4A604D9B0E30945F54E8CC1988FF1F@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <4983148.1251920856652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<CF77132A58584CCAAE4885AE1CED9A2A@Mobile2>
	<4689C1A7CC4A604D9B0E30945F54E8CC1988FF1F@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB5948C5FA@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

Just to note: My finocyl O-motor for Balls has different grain formulations.
I've made changes to the binder formulation and metals loading from front to back.
We will see how it hangs together -- hope to static test next weekend as proof of concept.
FredA
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Azinger, Fred 
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:05 PM
To: Scott T Bowers; steve-c at ix.netcom.com; 'Schurke,Peter'; sales at pvconly.com; 'NW Rocketry mailing list'; 'Hammer'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept. 10

Exactly -- burn modifiers up front -- erosion controllers in the aft.... 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:59 PM
To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; Azinger, Fred; 'Schurke,Peter'; sales at pvconly.com; 'NW Rocketry mailing list'; 'Hammer'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept. 10

Hmmm, could make sense to have different formulations in different segments.
The environment in the forward grain is much different that in the aft
grain. slower aft and faster forward would make sense in a long motor to off
set erosive burning.


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM
To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke,Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing
list; Hammer
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted forSept.
10

All grains?  Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the funding
hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this is just
a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.

Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA
will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated
candles in general.  Thanks for the info Pete.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM
>To: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>,
"steve-c at ix.netcom.com" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>, "sales at pvconly.com"
<sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>,
Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
10
>
>Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or the
aft grain? 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
>To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; 
>Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for 
>Sept. 10
>
>According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not
"just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different
propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're
using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes
we can't tell you about"
>
>Pete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of 
>steve-c at ix.netcom.com
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
>To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted 
>forSept. 10
>
>I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the 
>payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  
>Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a 
>smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle 
>SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in 
>learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of 
>Google?  /Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: sales at pvconly.com
>>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer
<hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
Sept.	10
>>
>>The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is
working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>?
>>The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring
that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on
the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>?
>>Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length?motors and
their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on
these modified SRBs?
>>?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>>10
>>To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>
>>
>>http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>
>>WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I
rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor,
Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced
the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>
>>Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software
was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the
investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>
>>"Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are
being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree
approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement
plans for potential suspect items."
>>
>>The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in
the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle
failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power
unit on the booster had failed.
>>
>>The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>
>>NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built
solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new
Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its
retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier
than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares
I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rockets mailing list
>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com  Thu Sep  3 10:50:14 2009
From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:50:14 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Motor Availability at XPRS
In-Reply-To: <20090902212927.IKGF16492.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
References: <20090902212927.IKGF16492.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808122070@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>

The .pdf did not come through as an attachment. Can it be found
elsewhere?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Myres [mailto:jim at discountrocketry.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 2:29 PM
To: Rockets North West
Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Motor Availability at XPRS

Dear, Rockets North West!

Discount Rocketry will not be attending XPRS. However, we are shipping
motors to anyone who wants to take advantage of our high power motor
30-50% off clearance sale.
We should be able to get your order to you in plenty of time for XPRS if
you get your order in this week.

Please see the attached PDF file with 50% off Warp-N and 30% off
everything else including the L, M or N motors. Shipping will be free
for any order over $500.
We encourage you to pass the motor list around to any friends you may
want to combine your orders with to meet the free HAMAT shipping mnimum.

Thanks,
Jim Myres
Discount Rocketry

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 11:10:22 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:10:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
Message-ID: <e83b26700909031110j37c2ee9ek413b2de6247017d1@mail.gmail.com>

I have an upgraded version of the estes fat boy and have found a rocksim for
it in text form.  I do not know how to save it and get it into rocksim.  Can
anyone help?  Roksim file for the Estes Fat Boy follows:

<RockSimDocument>
 <FileVersion>1</FileVersion>
 <DesignInformation>
  <RocketDesign>
   <Name>FabToy</Name>
   <CalculateCD>1</CalculateCD>
   <FixedCd>0.75</FixedCd>
   <StageCount>1</StageCount>
   <Stage3Mass>0.</Stage3Mass>
   <Stage2Mass>0.</Stage2Mass>
   <Stage1Mass>0.</Stage1Mass>
   <Stage321CG>0.</Stage321CG>
   <Stage32CG>0.</Stage32CG>
   <Stage3CG>0.</Stage3CG>
   <CPCalcFlags>5</CPCalcFlags>
   <LaunchGuideLength>914.4001207008</LaunchGuideLength>
   <UseKnownMass>0</UseKnownMass>
   <DefaultFinish>1</DefaultFinish>
   <FinishMedium>0</FinishMedium>
   <FinishCoatCount>2</FinishCoatCount>
   <GlueType>0</GlueType>
   <Comments>29mm FatBoy, glassed tube, G10 fins, chute in nosecone.
Masses adjusted for true CG.</Comments>
   <Designer>Scott McLeod</Designer>
   <CPSimFlags>4</CPSimFlags>
   <LastSerialNumber>14</LastSerialNumber>
   <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
   <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
   <CameraState></CameraState>
   <BarromanXN>0.,206.545476535679,263.621149631557,928.113309765182</BarromanXN>
   <BarrowmanCNa>0.,7.91682432697728,13.9684853066881,99.8008088205347</BarrowmanCNa>
   <RockSimXN>0.,219.310297631782,272.940069429482,931.427296288056</RockSimXN>
   <RockSimCNa>0.,10.132792472186,18.4456727175468,120.675061191899</RockSimCNa>
   <ViewType>0</ViewType>
   <ViewStageCount>1</ViewStageCount>
   <SimulationEventList>
   </SimulationEventList>
   <Stage3Parts>
    <NoseCone>
     <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
     <KnownMass>33.452</KnownMass>
     <Density>1049.2093265</Density>
     <Material>Polystyrene PS</Material>
     <Name>Nose cone</Name>
     <KnownCG>73.025</KnownCG>
     <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
     <Xb>0.</Xb>
     <CalcMass>83.5515667964227</CalcMass>
     <CalcCG>81.6451467824161</CalcCG>
     <WettedSurface>1.72420940714187e-002</WettedSurface>
     <PaintedSurface>1.72420940714187e-002</PaintedSurface>
     <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
     <DensityType>0</DensityType>
     <PartNo></PartNo>
     <PartDesc></PartDesc>
     <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
     <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
     <Texture></Texture>
     <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
     <Specular>0.</Specular>
     <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
     <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
     <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
     <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
     <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
     <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
     <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
     <SerialNo>1</SerialNo>
     <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
     <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
     <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
     <Color>0,0,250</Color>
     <BarrowmanCNa>2.</BarrowmanCNa>
     <BarrowmanXN>3.38666666666667e-002</BarrowmanXN>
     <RockSimCNa>2.</RockSimCNa>
     <RockSimXN>3.38666666666667e-002</RockSimXN>
     <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
     <Len>101.6</Len>
     <BaseDia>66.04</BaseDia>
     <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
     <ShapeCode>3</ShapeCode>
     <ConstructionType>1</ConstructionType>
     <ShoulderLen>34.925</ShoulderLen>
     <WallThickness>3.175</WallThickness>
     <ShapeParameter>0.</ShapeParameter>
     <ShoulderOD>62.865</ShoulderOD>
     <PointList></PointList>
     <BaseExtensionLen>0.</BaseExtensionLen>
     <CoreDia>0.</CoreDia>
     <CoreLen>0.</CoreLen>
     <AttachedParts>
      <BodyTube>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
       <Density>688.793909</Density>
       <Material>Cardboard</Material>
       <Name>Body tube</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>73.025</Xb>
       <CalcMass>13.3668067296074</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>31.75</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>1.25410101093006e-002</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>1.25410101093006e-002</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo></PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>2</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <OD>62.865</OD>
       <ID>59.69</ID>
       <Len>63.5</Len>
       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
       <IsMotorMount>0</IsMotorMount>
       <MotorDia>0.</MotorDia>
       <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
       <FrontExtension>0.</FrontExtension>
       <RearExtension>0.</RearExtension>
       <IsInsideTube>1</IsInsideTube>
       <AttachedParts>
        <Ring>
         <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
         <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
         <Density>724.99563538</Density>
         <Material>Aircraft plywood (Birch)</Material>
         <Name>Bulkhead</Name>
         <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
         <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
         <Xb>-2.032</Xb>
         <CalcMass>4.48072797858272</CalcMass>
         <CalcCG>1.016</CalcCG>
         <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
         <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
         <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
         <DensityType>0</DensityType>
         <PartNo></PartNo>
         <PartDesc></PartDesc>
         <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
         <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
         <Texture></Texture>
         <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
         <Specular>0.</Specular>
         <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
         <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
         <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
         <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
         <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
         <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
         <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
         <SerialNo>3</SerialNo>
         <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
         <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
         <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
         <Color>0,0,250</Color>
         <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
         <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
         <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
         <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
         <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
         <OD>62.23</OD>
         <ID>0.</ID>
         <Len>2.032</Len>
         <FinishCode>0</FinishCode>
         <UsageCode>1</UsageCode>
         <AutoSize>1</AutoSize>
         <AttachedParts>
         </AttachedParts>
        </Ring>
       </AttachedParts>
      </BodyTube>
      <MassObject>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>42.524</KnownMass>
       <Density>0.</Density>
       <Material></Material>
       <Name>nose weight</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>69.85</Xb>
       <CalcMass>0.</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>0.</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo></PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>4</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <TypeCode>0</TypeCode>
       <Len>0.</Len>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </MassObject>
     </AttachedParts>
    </NoseCone>
    <BodyTube>
     <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
     <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
     <Density>1905.23598922</Density>
     <Material>G10 fiberglass</Material>
     <Name>Body tube</Name>
     <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
     <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
     <Xb>0.</Xb>
     <CalcMass>55.618741016985</CalcMass>
     <CalcCG>101.6</CalcCG>
     <WettedSurface>4.22391354630827e-002</WettedSurface>
     <PaintedSurface>4.22391354630827e-002</PaintedSurface>
     <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
     <DensityType>0</DensityType>
     <PartNo></PartNo>
     <PartDesc></PartDesc>
     <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
     <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
     <Texture></Texture>
     <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
     <Specular>0.</Specular>
     <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
     <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
     <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
     <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
     <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
     <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
     <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
     <SerialNo>5</SerialNo>
     <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
     <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
     <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
     <Color>0,0,250</Color>
     <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
     <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
     <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
     <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
     <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
     <OD>66.167</OD>
     <ID>64.77</ID>
     <Len>203.2</Len>
     <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
     <IsMotorMount>0</IsMotorMount>
     <MotorDia>0.</MotorDia>
     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
     <FrontExtension>0.</FrontExtension>
     <RearExtension>0.</RearExtension>
     <IsInsideTube>0</IsInsideTube>
     <AttachedParts>
      <FinSet>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
       <Density>1905.23598922</Density>
       <Material>G10 fiberglass</Material>
       <Name>Fin set</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>123.825</Xb>
       <CalcMass>36.5873719809978</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>55.6949522888206</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>8.0645e-003</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>2.41935e-002</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo></PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>6</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>5.91682432697728</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.264914223122154</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>8.13279247218596</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.264914223122154</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <FinCount>3</FinCount>
       <RootChord>79.375</RootChord>
       <TipChord>47.625</TipChord>
       <SemiSpan>63.5</SemiSpan>
       <MidChordLen>72.4708914250341</MidChordLen>
       <SweepDistance>50.8003504483359</SweepDistance>
       <Thickness>1.5875</Thickness>
       <ShapeCode>0</ShapeCode>
       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
       <TipShapeCode>1</TipShapeCode>
       <TabLength>0.</TabLength>
       <TabDepth>0.</TabDepth>
       <TabOffset>0.</TabOffset>
       <SweepMode>1</SweepMode>
       <SweepAngle>0.68</SweepAngle>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </FinSet>
      <BodyTube>
       <PartMfg>LOC/Presision</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
       <Density>1121.29241</Density>
       <Material>Paper</Material>
       <Name>motor mount</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>76.2</Xb>
       <CalcMass>11.0454696370686</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>63.5</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo>LOC MMT-1.14</PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>7</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <OD>30.734</OD>
       <ID>29.083</ID>
       <Len>127.</Len>
       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
       <IsMotorMount>1</IsMotorMount>
       <MotorDia>29.</MotorDia>
       <EngineOverhang>0.</EngineOverhang>
       <FrontExtension>0.</FrontExtension>
       <RearExtension>0.</RearExtension>
       <IsInsideTube>1</IsInsideTube>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </BodyTube>
      <Parachute>
       <PartMfg>Public Missiles</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>45.359</KnownMass>
       <Density>6.685e-003</Density>
       <Material>Rip stop nylon</Material>
       <Name>Parachute</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>50.8</Xb>
       <CalcMass>16.3466974072945</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>50.8</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
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       <DensityType>1</DensityType>
       <PartNo>PML PAR-24R</PartNo>
       <PartDesc>24 in. nylon</PartDesc>
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       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
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       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
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       <SerialNo>10</SerialNo>
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       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <Dia>609.6</Dia>
       <SpillHoleDia>152.4</SpillHoleDia>
       <SideCount>8</SideCount>
       <ShroudLineCount>8</ShroudLineCount>
       <Thickness>0.</Thickness>
       <ShroudLineLen>508.</ShroudLineLen>
       <ChuteCount>1</ChuteCount>
       <ShroudLineMassPerMM>0.</ShroudLineMassPerMM>
       <ShroudLineMaterial>Thin poly</ShroudLineMaterial>
       <DragCoefficient>0.75</DragCoefficient>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </Parachute>
      <MassObject>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>8.505</KnownMass>
       <Density>0.</Density>
       <Material></Material>
       <Name>fin tabs</Name>
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      <MassObject>
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       <Material></Material>
       <Name>epoxy</Name>
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      <MassObject>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>17.01</KnownMass>
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       <Name>shock cord/nomex</Name>
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       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
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      <LaunchLug>
       <PartMfg>LOC</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
       <Density>688.793909</Density>
       <Material>Cardboard</Material>
       <Name>Launch lug</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
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       <CalcMass>1.66219358295636</CalcMass>
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       <PartNo>LL-25</PartNo>
       <PartDesc><![CDATA[1/4" launch lug stock]]></PartDesc>
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       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
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       </AttachedParts>
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      <Ring>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
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       <Material>G10 fiberglass</Material>
       <Name>Ring</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
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       <Xb>88.9</Xb>
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      <Ring>
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   <Stage2Parts>
   </Stage2Parts>
   <Stage1Parts>
   </Stage1Parts>
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 </DesignInformation>
 <SimulationResultsList>
  <SimulationResults>
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   <EjectTime>12.2009999999987,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
   <FinalState>0</FinalState>
   <TimeToBurnout>2.20099999999987</TimeToBurnout>
   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
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   <MaxRange>2.7776296948531e-005</MaxRange>
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   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[G75J-10] </SimulationName>
   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>15.8184472132318</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440008449056</LaunchGuideLen>
   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
   <Comments></Comments>
   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.16</TimeToFreeFlight>
   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.9559999999999</TimeToMaxVelocity>
   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.501</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
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   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
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   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
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   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
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   <Stage1Engines>
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   <Stage2Engines>
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   <Stage3Engines>
    <EngineSet>
     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>G75J</EngineCode>
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     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
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     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>10.</EjectionDelay>
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  <SimulationResults>
   <MaxAltitude>1205.01492188681</MaxAltitude>
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   <MaxAcceleration>300.756451648815</MaxAcceleration>
   <TimeToApogee>13.2569999999981</TimeToApogee>
   <OptimalDelay>11.7559999999981</OptimalDelay>
   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
   <VelocityAtDeplyment>22.0074331533653,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAtDeplyment>
   <AltitudeAtDeployment>1180.68689282084,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeAtDeployment>
   <DelayTime>14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
   <EjectTime>15.5009999999968,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
   <FinalState>2</FinalState>
   <TimeToBurnout>1.50099999999995</TimeToBurnout>
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   <TimeToEject>15.5009999999968</TimeToEject>
   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.429359041328942</MinLaunchGuideLen>
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   <MaxRange>1.0428116406493e-005</MaxRange>
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   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[H128W-14] </SimulationName>
   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>21.798185054842</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440008449056</LaunchGuideLen>
   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
   <Comments></Comments>
   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.124</TimeToFreeFlight>
   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.30499999999997</TimeToMaxVelocity>
   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.1</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
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   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
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   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
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   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
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   <Stage2Engines>
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   <Stage3Engines>
    <EngineSet>
     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>H128W</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
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     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>14.</EjectionDelay>
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  </SimulationResults>
  <SimulationResults>
   <MaxAltitude>1025.74350007626</MaxAltitude>
   <MaxVelocity>220.490741439641</MaxVelocity>
   <MaxAcceleration>190.832247983063</MaxAcceleration>
   <TimeToApogee>12.7709999999984</TimeToApogee>
   <OptimalDelay>10.7699999999985</OptimalDelay>
   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
   <VelocityAtDeplyment>10.1767013251078,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAtDeplyment>
   <AltitudeAtDeployment>1025.74350007626,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeAtDeployment>
   <DelayTime>10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
   <EjectTime>12.0009999999988,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
   <FinalState>1</FinalState>
   <TimeToBurnout>2.00099999999989</TimeToBurnout>
   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
   <TimeToEject>12.0009999999988</TimeToEject>
   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.750838535379445</MinLaunchGuideLen>
   <MaxVertVelocity>219.777232994233</MaxVertVelocity>
   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
   <MaxVertAcceleration>190.832235009193</MaxVertAcceleration>
   <MaxHorzAcceleration>4.9381285590885</MaxHorzAcceleration>
   <MaxRange>3.74046148590514e-005</MaxRange>
   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[G64-10] </SimulationName>
   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>15.6263481544371</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440008449056</LaunchGuideLen>
   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
   <Comments></Comments>
   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.186</TimeToFreeFlight>
   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.83499999999991</TimeToMaxVelocity>
   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.2</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
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   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
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   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
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   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
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   <Stage1Engines>
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   <Stage2Engines>
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   <Stage3Engines>
    <EngineSet>
     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>G64</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>10.</EjectionDelay>
    </EngineSet>
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  </SimulationResults>
  <SimulationResults>
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   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[H220T-14] </SimulationName>
   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>31.3148472465376</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440010259568</LaunchGuideLen>
   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
   <Comments></Comments>
   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>5.7e-002</TimeToFreeFlight>
   <TimeToMaxVelocity>0.792000000000001</TimeToMaxVelocity>
   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
   <ExecutionTime>0.</ExecutionTime>
   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
   <CG0>0.</CG0>
   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
   <SimulationEvents>
   </SimulationEvents>
   <Stage1Engines>
   </Stage1Engines>
   <Stage2Engines>
   </Stage2Engines>
   <Stage3Engines>
    <EngineSet>
     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>H220T</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>14.</EjectionDelay>
    </EngineSet>
   </Stage3Engines>
  </SimulationResults>
 </SimulationResultsList>
</RockSimDocument>

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Thu Sep  3 12:27:22 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:27:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909031110j37c2ee9ek413b2de6247017d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909031110j37c2ee9ek413b2de6247017d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <013f01ca2ccc$908890a0$b199b1e0$@net>

Christopher,

Save the file with the .rkt extension and then open it in RockSim.  This
looks a lot like one of my RockSim files when I open it in notepad.  It may
also help to know what version of rocksim you are using.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:10 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please

I have an upgraded version of the estes fat boy and have found a rocksim for
it in text form.  I do not know how to save it and get it into rocksim.  Can
anyone help?  Roksim file for the Estes Fat Boy follows:

<RockSimDocument>
 <FileVersion>1</FileVersion>
 <DesignInformation>
  <RocketDesign>
   <Name>FabToy</Name>
   <CalculateCD>1</CalculateCD>
   <FixedCd>0.75</FixedCd>
   <StageCount>1</StageCount>
   <Stage3Mass>0.</Stage3Mass>
   <Stage2Mass>0.</Stage2Mass>
   <Stage1Mass>0.</Stage1Mass>
   <Stage321CG>0.</Stage321CG>
   <Stage32CG>0.</Stage32CG>
   <Stage3CG>0.</Stage3CG>
   <CPCalcFlags>5</CPCalcFlags>
   <LaunchGuideLength>914.4001207008</LaunchGuideLength>
   <UseKnownMass>0</UseKnownMass>
   <DefaultFinish>1</DefaultFinish>
   <FinishMedium>0</FinishMedium>
   <FinishCoatCount>2</FinishCoatCount>
   <GlueType>0</GlueType>
   <Comments>29mm FatBoy, glassed tube, G10 fins, chute in nosecone.
Masses adjusted for true CG.</Comments>
   <Designer>Scott McLeod</Designer>
   <CPSimFlags>4</CPSimFlags>
   <LastSerialNumber>14</LastSerialNumber>
   <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
   <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
   <CameraState></CameraState>
 
<BarromanXN>0.,206.545476535679,263.621149631557,928.113309765182</BarromanX
N>
 
<BarrowmanCNa>0.,7.91682432697728,13.9684853066881,99.8008088205347</Barrowm
anCNa>
 
<RockSimXN>0.,219.310297631782,272.940069429482,931.427296288056</RockSimXN>
 
<RockSimCNa>0.,10.132792472186,18.4456727175468,120.675061191899</RockSimCNa
>
   <ViewType>0</ViewType>
   <ViewStageCount>1</ViewStageCount>
   <SimulationEventList>
   </SimulationEventList>
   <Stage3Parts>
    <NoseCone>
     <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
     <KnownMass>33.452</KnownMass>
     <Density>1049.2093265</Density>
     <Material>Polystyrene PS</Material>
     <Name>Nose cone</Name>
     <KnownCG>73.025</KnownCG>
     <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
     <Xb>0.</Xb>
     <CalcMass>83.5515667964227</CalcMass>
     <CalcCG>81.6451467824161</CalcCG>
     <WettedSurface>1.72420940714187e-002</WettedSurface>
     <PaintedSurface>1.72420940714187e-002</PaintedSurface>
     <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
     <DensityType>0</DensityType>
     <PartNo></PartNo>
     <PartDesc></PartDesc>
     <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
     <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
     <Texture></Texture>
     <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
     <Specular>0.</Specular>
     <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
     <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
     <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
     <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
     <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
     <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
     <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
     <SerialNo>1</SerialNo>
     <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
     <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
     <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
     <Color>0,0,250</Color>
     <BarrowmanCNa>2.</BarrowmanCNa>
     <BarrowmanXN>3.38666666666667e-002</BarrowmanXN>
     <RockSimCNa>2.</RockSimCNa>
     <RockSimXN>3.38666666666667e-002</RockSimXN>
     <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
     <Len>101.6</Len>
     <BaseDia>66.04</BaseDia>
     <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
     <ShapeCode>3</ShapeCode>
     <ConstructionType>1</ConstructionType>
     <ShoulderLen>34.925</ShoulderLen>
     <WallThickness>3.175</WallThickness>
     <ShapeParameter>0.</ShapeParameter>
     <ShoulderOD>62.865</ShoulderOD>
     <PointList></PointList>
     <BaseExtensionLen>0.</BaseExtensionLen>
     <CoreDia>0.</CoreDia>
     <CoreLen>0.</CoreLen>
     <AttachedParts>
      <BodyTube>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
       <Density>688.793909</Density>
       <Material>Cardboard</Material>
       <Name>Body tube</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>73.025</Xb>
       <CalcMass>13.3668067296074</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>31.75</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>1.25410101093006e-002</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>1.25410101093006e-002</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo></PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>2</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <OD>62.865</OD>
       <ID>59.69</ID>
       <Len>63.5</Len>
       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
       <IsMotorMount>0</IsMotorMount>
       <MotorDia>0.</MotorDia>
       <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
       <FrontExtension>0.</FrontExtension>
       <RearExtension>0.</RearExtension>
       <IsInsideTube>1</IsInsideTube>
       <AttachedParts>
        <Ring>
         <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
         <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
         <Density>724.99563538</Density>
         <Material>Aircraft plywood (Birch)</Material>
         <Name>Bulkhead</Name>
         <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
         <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
         <Xb>-2.032</Xb>
         <CalcMass>4.48072797858272</CalcMass>
         <CalcCG>1.016</CalcCG>
         <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
         <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
         <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
         <DensityType>0</DensityType>
         <PartNo></PartNo>
         <PartDesc></PartDesc>
         <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
         <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
         <Texture></Texture>
         <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
         <Specular>0.</Specular>
         <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
         <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
         <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
         <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
         <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
         <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
         <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
         <SerialNo>3</SerialNo>
         <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
         <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
         <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
         <Color>0,0,250</Color>
         <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
         <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
         <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
         <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
         <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
         <OD>62.23</OD>
         <ID>0.</ID>
         <Len>2.032</Len>
         <FinishCode>0</FinishCode>
         <UsageCode>1</UsageCode>
         <AutoSize>1</AutoSize>
         <AttachedParts>
         </AttachedParts>
        </Ring>
       </AttachedParts>
      </BodyTube>
      <MassObject>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>42.524</KnownMass>
       <Density>0.</Density>
       <Material></Material>
       <Name>nose weight</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>69.85</Xb>
       <CalcMass>0.</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>0.</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo></PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>4</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <TypeCode>0</TypeCode>
       <Len>0.</Len>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </MassObject>
     </AttachedParts>
    </NoseCone>
    <BodyTube>
     <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
     <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
     <Density>1905.23598922</Density>
     <Material>G10 fiberglass</Material>
     <Name>Body tube</Name>
     <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
     <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
     <Xb>0.</Xb>
     <CalcMass>55.618741016985</CalcMass>
     <CalcCG>101.6</CalcCG>
     <WettedSurface>4.22391354630827e-002</WettedSurface>
     <PaintedSurface>4.22391354630827e-002</PaintedSurface>
     <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
     <DensityType>0</DensityType>
     <PartNo></PartNo>
     <PartDesc></PartDesc>
     <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
     <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
     <Texture></Texture>
     <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
     <Specular>0.</Specular>
     <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
     <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
     <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
     <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
     <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
     <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
     <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
     <SerialNo>5</SerialNo>
     <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
     <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
     <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
     <Color>0,0,250</Color>
     <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
     <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
     <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
     <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
     <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
     <OD>66.167</OD>
     <ID>64.77</ID>
     <Len>203.2</Len>
     <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
     <IsMotorMount>0</IsMotorMount>
     <MotorDia>0.</MotorDia>
     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
     <FrontExtension>0.</FrontExtension>
     <RearExtension>0.</RearExtension>
     <IsInsideTube>0</IsInsideTube>
     <AttachedParts>
      <FinSet>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
       <Density>1905.23598922</Density>
       <Material>G10 fiberglass</Material>
       <Name>Fin set</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>123.825</Xb>
       <CalcMass>36.5873719809978</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>55.6949522888206</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>8.0645e-003</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>2.41935e-002</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo></PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>6</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>5.91682432697728</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.264914223122154</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>8.13279247218596</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.264914223122154</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <FinCount>3</FinCount>
       <RootChord>79.375</RootChord>
       <TipChord>47.625</TipChord>
       <SemiSpan>63.5</SemiSpan>
       <MidChordLen>72.4708914250341</MidChordLen>
       <SweepDistance>50.8003504483359</SweepDistance>
       <Thickness>1.5875</Thickness>
       <ShapeCode>0</ShapeCode>
       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
       <TipShapeCode>1</TipShapeCode>
       <TabLength>0.</TabLength>
       <TabDepth>0.</TabDepth>
       <TabOffset>0.</TabOffset>
       <SweepMode>1</SweepMode>
       <SweepAngle>0.68</SweepAngle>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </FinSet>
      <BodyTube>
       <PartMfg>LOC/Presision</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
       <Density>1121.29241</Density>
       <Material>Paper</Material>
       <Name>motor mount</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>76.2</Xb>
       <CalcMass>11.0454696370686</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>63.5</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo>LOC MMT-1.14</PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>7</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <OD>30.734</OD>
       <ID>29.083</ID>
       <Len>127.</Len>
       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
       <IsMotorMount>1</IsMotorMount>
       <MotorDia>29.</MotorDia>
       <EngineOverhang>0.</EngineOverhang>
       <FrontExtension>0.</FrontExtension>
       <RearExtension>0.</RearExtension>
       <IsInsideTube>1</IsInsideTube>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </BodyTube>
      <Parachute>
       <PartMfg>Public Missiles</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>45.359</KnownMass>
       <Density>6.685e-003</Density>
       <Material>Rip stop nylon</Material>
       <Name>Parachute</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>50.8</Xb>
       <CalcMass>16.3466974072945</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>50.8</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>1</DensityType>
       <PartNo>PML PAR-24R</PartNo>
       <PartDesc>24 in. nylon</PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>10</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <Dia>609.6</Dia>
       <SpillHoleDia>152.4</SpillHoleDia>
       <SideCount>8</SideCount>
       <ShroudLineCount>8</ShroudLineCount>
       <Thickness>0.</Thickness>
       <ShroudLineLen>508.</ShroudLineLen>
       <ChuteCount>1</ChuteCount>
       <ShroudLineMassPerMM>0.</ShroudLineMassPerMM>
       <ShroudLineMaterial>Thin poly</ShroudLineMaterial>
       <DragCoefficient>0.75</DragCoefficient>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </Parachute>
      <MassObject>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>8.505</KnownMass>
       <Density>0.</Density>
       <Material></Material>
       <Name>fin tabs</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>165.1</Xb>
       <CalcMass>0.</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>0.</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo></PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>11</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <TypeCode>0</TypeCode>
       <Len>0.</Len>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </MassObject>
      <MassObject>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>11.34</KnownMass>
       <Density>0.</Density>
       <Material></Material>
       <Name>epoxy</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>203.2</Xb>
       <CalcMass>0.</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>0.</CalcCG>
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       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
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       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>12</SerialNo>
       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <TypeCode>0</TypeCode>
       <Len>0.</Len>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </MassObject>
      <MassObject>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>17.01</KnownMass>
       <Density>0.</Density>
       <Material></Material>
       <Name>shock cord/nomex</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
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       <Xb>38.1</Xb>
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       <PartNo></PartNo>
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       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
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       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
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       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <TypeCode>0</TypeCode>
       <Len>0.</Len>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </MassObject>
      <LaunchLug>
       <PartMfg>LOC</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
       <Density>688.793909</Density>
       <Material>Cardboard</Material>
       <Name>Launch lug</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>81.915</Xb>
       <CalcMass>1.66219358295636</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>50.8</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>5.0908267047224e-003</WettedSurface>
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       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo>LL-25</PartNo>
       <PartDesc><![CDATA[1/4" launch lug stock]]></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>37.5285</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
       <Specular>0.</Specular>
       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
       <SerialNo>14</SerialNo>
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       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
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       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <OD>8.89</OD>
       <ID>6.985</ID>
       <Len>101.6</Len>
       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </LaunchLug>
      <Ring>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
       <Density>1905.23598922</Density>
       <Material>G10 fiberglass</Material>
       <Name>Ring</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
       <Xb>88.9</Xb>
       <CalcMass>7.78249261414341</CalcMass>
       <CalcCG>0.8</CalcCG>
       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
       <PartNo></PartNo>
       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
       <Texture></Texture>
       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
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       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
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       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
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       <SerialNo>8</SerialNo>
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       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
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       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
       <OD>64.77</OD>
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       <FinishCode>0</FinishCode>
       <UsageCode>0</UsageCode>
       <AutoSize>1</AutoSize>
       <AttachedParts>
       </AttachedParts>
      </Ring>
      <Ring>
       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
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       <Density>1905.23598922</Density>
       <Material>G10 fiberglass</Material>
       <Name>Ring</Name>
       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
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       <Xb>190.5</Xb>
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       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
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       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
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       <OD>64.77</OD>
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       </AttachedParts>
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     </AttachedParts>
    </BodyTube>
   </Stage3Parts>
   <Stage2Parts>
   </Stage2Parts>
   <Stage1Parts>
   </Stage1Parts>
  </RocketDesign>
 </DesignInformation>
 <SimulationResultsList>
  <SimulationResults>
   <MaxAltitude>1235.58802607435</MaxAltitude>
   <MaxVelocity>260.301938961581</MaxVelocity>
   <MaxAcceleration>160.597730399451</MaxAcceleration>
   <TimeToApogee>13.7849999999978</TimeToApogee>
   <OptimalDelay>11.5839999999979</OptimalDelay>
   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
 
<VelocityAtDeplyment>17.5694953880067,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
Deplyment>
 
<AltitudeAtDeployment>1235.58802607435,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
tDeployment>
   <DelayTime>10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
   <EjectTime>12.2009999999987,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
   <FinalState>0</FinalState>
   <TimeToBurnout>2.20099999999987</TimeToBurnout>
   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
   <TimeToEject>12.2009999999987</TimeToEject>
   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.680365190887775</MinLaunchGuideLen>
   <MaxVertVelocity>259.330778795918</MaxVertVelocity>
   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
   <MaxVertAcceleration>160.108535298321</MaxVertAcceleration>
   <MaxHorzAcceleration>6.37646048776014</MaxHorzAcceleration>
   <MaxRange>2.7776296948531e-005</MaxRange>
   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[G75J-10] </SimulationName>
   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>15.8184472132318</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440008449056</LaunchGuideLen>
   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
   <Comments></Comments>
   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.16</TimeToFreeFlight>
   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.9559999999999</TimeToMaxVelocity>
   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.501</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
   <ExecutionTime>0.</ExecutionTime>
   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
   <CG0>0.</CG0>
   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
   <SimulationEvents>
   </SimulationEvents>
   <Stage1Engines>
   </Stage1Engines>
   <Stage2Engines>
   </Stage2Engines>
   <Stage3Engines>
    <EngineSet>
     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>G75J</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>10.</EjectionDelay>
    </EngineSet>
   </Stage3Engines>
  </SimulationResults>
  <SimulationResults>
   <MaxAltitude>1205.01492188681</MaxAltitude>
   <MaxVelocity>272.69703250297</MaxVelocity>
   <MaxAcceleration>300.756451648815</MaxAcceleration>
   <TimeToApogee>13.2569999999981</TimeToApogee>
   <OptimalDelay>11.7559999999981</OptimalDelay>
   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
 
<VelocityAtDeplyment>22.0074331533653,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
Deplyment>
 
<AltitudeAtDeployment>1180.68689282084,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
tDeployment>
   <DelayTime>14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
   <EjectTime>15.5009999999968,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
   <FinalState>2</FinalState>
   <TimeToBurnout>1.50099999999995</TimeToBurnout>
   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
   <TimeToEject>15.5009999999968</TimeToEject>
   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.429359041328942</MinLaunchGuideLen>
   <MaxVertVelocity>272.249754051817</MaxVertVelocity>
   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
   <MaxVertAcceleration>300.756451648815</MaxVertAcceleration>
   <MaxHorzAcceleration>4.77156753846185</MaxHorzAcceleration>
   <MaxRange>1.0428116406493e-005</MaxRange>
   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[H128W-14] </SimulationName>
   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>21.798185054842</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440008449056</LaunchGuideLen>
   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
   <Comments></Comments>
   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.124</TimeToFreeFlight>
   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.30499999999997</TimeToMaxVelocity>
   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.1</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
   <ExecutionTime>0.</ExecutionTime>
   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
   <CG0>0.</CG0>
   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
   <SimulationEvents>
   </SimulationEvents>
   <Stage1Engines>
   </Stage1Engines>
   <Stage2Engines>
   </Stage2Engines>
   <Stage3Engines>
    <EngineSet>
     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>H128W</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>14.</EjectionDelay>
    </EngineSet>
   </Stage3Engines>
  </SimulationResults>
  <SimulationResults>
   <MaxAltitude>1025.74350007626</MaxAltitude>
   <MaxVelocity>220.490741439641</MaxVelocity>
   <MaxAcceleration>190.832247983063</MaxAcceleration>
   <TimeToApogee>12.7709999999984</TimeToApogee>
   <OptimalDelay>10.7699999999985</OptimalDelay>
   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
 
<VelocityAtDeplyment>10.1767013251078,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
Deplyment>
 
<AltitudeAtDeployment>1025.74350007626,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
tDeployment>
   <DelayTime>10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
   <EjectTime>12.0009999999988,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
   <FinalState>1</FinalState>
   <TimeToBurnout>2.00099999999989</TimeToBurnout>
   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
   <TimeToEject>12.0009999999988</TimeToEject>
   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.750838535379445</MinLaunchGuideLen>
   <MaxVertVelocity>219.777232994233</MaxVertVelocity>
   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
   <MaxVertAcceleration>190.832235009193</MaxVertAcceleration>
   <MaxHorzAcceleration>4.9381285590885</MaxHorzAcceleration>
   <MaxRange>3.74046148590514e-005</MaxRange>
   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[G64-10] </SimulationName>
   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>15.6263481544371</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440008449056</LaunchGuideLen>
   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
   <Comments></Comments>
   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.186</TimeToFreeFlight>
   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.83499999999991</TimeToMaxVelocity>
   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.2</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
   <ExecutionTime>0.</ExecutionTime>
   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
   <CG0>0.</CG0>
   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
   <SimulationEvents>
   </SimulationEvents>
   <Stage1Engines>
   </Stage1Engines>
   <Stage2Engines>
   </Stage2Engines>
   <Stage3Engines>
    <EngineSet>
     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>G64</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>10.</EjectionDelay>
    </EngineSet>
   </Stage3Engines>
  </SimulationResults>
  <SimulationResults>
   <MaxAltitude>1203.76197662647</MaxAltitude>
   <MaxVelocity>305.335770536402</MaxVelocity>
   <MaxAcceleration>538.86185735588</MaxAcceleration>
   <TimeToApogee>12.8989999999983</TimeToApogee>
   <OptimalDelay>12.0989999999983</OptimalDelay>
   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
 
<VelocityAtDeplyment>18.469089677764,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAtD
eplyment>
 
<AltitudeAtDeployment>1186.31745224458,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
tDeployment>
   <DelayTime>14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
   <EjectTime>14.8009999999972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
   <FinalState>2</FinalState>
   <TimeToBurnout>0.800000000000001</TimeToBurnout>
   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
   <TimeToEject>14.8009999999972</TimeToEject>
   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.204898564198042</MinLaunchGuideLen>
   <MaxVertVelocity>305.100264754504</MaxVertVelocity>
   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
   <MaxVertAcceleration>538.285894695</MaxVertAcceleration>
   <MaxHorzAcceleration>5.63796757513878</MaxHorzAcceleration>
   <MaxRange>4.70875442037315e-006</MaxRange>
   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[H238T-14] </SimulationName>
   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>29.3351890031027</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440008449056</LaunchGuideLen>
   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
   <Comments></Comments>
   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>6.1e-002</TimeToFreeFlight>
   <TimeToMaxVelocity>0.709000000000001</TimeToMaxVelocity>
   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.3</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
   <ExecutionTime>0.</ExecutionTime>
   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
   <CG0>0.</CG0>
   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
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   <SimulationEvents>
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   <Stage1Engines>
   </Stage1Engines>
   <Stage2Engines>
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   <Stage3Engines>
    <EngineSet>
     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>H238T</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>14.</EjectionDelay>
    </EngineSet>
   </Stage3Engines>
  </SimulationResults>
  <SimulationResults>
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   <MaxVelocity>123.856505254752</MaxVelocity>
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   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
 
<VelocityAtDeplyment>10.7670429414741,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
Deplyment>
 
<AltitudeAtDeployment>598.885777653938,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
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   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
   <MaxVertAcceleration>130.686403267342</MaxVertAcceleration>
   <MaxHorzAcceleration>1.6521322002344</MaxHorzAcceleration>
   <MaxRange>6.92393498610319e-005</MaxRange>
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   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
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   <LaunchGuideLen>0.9144000905256</LaunchGuideLen>
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   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
 
<VelocityAtDeplyment>8.11828076068059,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
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<AltitudeAtDeployment>1029.10280541737,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
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<VelocityAtDeplyment>7.90594104554254,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
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tDeployment>
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   <MaxAltitude>1024.10584956972</MaxAltitude>
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   <TimeToApogee>12.0119999999988</TimeToApogee>
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   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
 
<VelocityAtDeplyment>10.8961058959573,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
Deplyment>
 
<AltitudeAtDeployment>1024.10584956972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
tDeployment>
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   <FinalState>0</FinalState>
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   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
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   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
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   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[G125-10] </SimulationName>
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   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.4</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
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   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
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   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
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   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
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   </Stage1Engines>
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     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>G125</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
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     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>10.</EjectionDelay>
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   </Stage3Engines>
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  <SimulationResults>
   <MaxAltitude>1393.35530737436</MaxAltitude>
   <MaxVelocity>323.607540336408</MaxVelocity>
   <MaxAcceleration>536.499340836308</MaxAcceleration>
   <TimeToApogee>13.7739999999978</TimeToApogee>
   <OptimalDelay>12.3729999999978</OptimalDelay>
   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
 
<VelocityAtDeplyment>16.2918405895321,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
Deplyment>
 
<AltitudeAtDeployment>1380.49355093261,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
tDeployment>
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   <EjectTime>15.4009999999969,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
   <FinalState>2</FinalState>
   <TimeToBurnout>1.40099999999996</TimeToBurnout>
   <TimeToLanding>8.02989130625284e+283</TimeToLanding>
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   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.196834337251715</MinLaunchGuideLen>
   <MaxVertVelocity>323.239799523318</MaxVertVelocity>
   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
   <MaxVertAcceleration>536.499340836308</MaxVertAcceleration>
   <MaxHorzAcceleration>6.60044107079662</MaxHorzAcceleration>
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   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[H180W-14] </SimulationName>
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   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440009656064</LaunchGuideLen>
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   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>5.9e-002</TimeToFreeFlight>
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     <EngineCode>H180W</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
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     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
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   <MaxVelocity>347.735022687323</MaxVelocity>
   <MaxAcceleration>577.475904111945</MaxAcceleration>
   <TimeToApogee>13.349999999998</TimeToApogee>
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   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
 
<VelocityAtDeplyment>15.9623733149263,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
Deplyment>
 
<AltitudeAtDeployment>1312.63508085216,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
tDeployment>
   <DelayTime>14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
   <EjectTime>14.9609999999971,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
   <FinalState>2</FinalState>
   <TimeToBurnout>0.960000000000001</TimeToBurnout>
   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
   <TimeToEject>14.9609999999971</TimeToEject>
   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.170248769319544</MinLaunchGuideLen>
   <MaxVertVelocity>347.431625587646</MaxVertVelocity>
   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
   <MaxVertAcceleration>577.475904111945</MaxVertAcceleration>
   <MaxHorzAcceleration>8.89860541211941</MaxHorzAcceleration>
   <MaxRange>3.10870619215658e-006</MaxRange>
   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
   <SimulationName>[H220T-14] </SimulationName>
   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>31.3148472465376</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440010259568</LaunchGuideLen>
   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
   <Comments></Comments>
   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
   <TimeToFreeFlight>5.7e-002</TimeToFreeFlight>
   <TimeToMaxVelocity>0.792000000000001</TimeToMaxVelocity>
   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
   <ExecutionTime>0.</ExecutionTime>
   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
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   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
   <CG0>0.</CG0>
   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
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   </SimulationEvents>
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   </Stage1Engines>
   <Stage2Engines>
   </Stage2Engines>
   <Stage3Engines>
    <EngineSet>
     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
     <EngineCode>H220T</EngineCode>
     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
     <EjectionDelay>14.</EjectionDelay>
    </EngineSet>
   </Stage3Engines>
  </SimulationResults>
 </SimulationResultsList>
</RockSimDocument>
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From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Thu Sep  3 13:22:58 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 13:22:58 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
In-Reply-To: <013f01ca2ccc$908890a0$b199b1e0$@net>
References: <e83b26700909031110j37c2ee9ek413b2de6247017d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<013f01ca2ccc$908890a0$b199b1e0$@net>
Message-ID: <014901ca2cd4$54c4c130$fe4e4390$@net>

Also make sure you get rid of any word wrapping.  Each line should be either
blank or end with an ">" as do the first few lines.  I could read this file
in both versions 6 and 7 once I saved it and cleaned up the word wrap. The
previous simulations did not show up in ver 6 so I am guessing that Scott
McLeod created this file in version 7.- Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Marty Weiser
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:27 PM
To: 'Christopher Guenther'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please

Christopher,

Save the file with the .rkt extension and then open it in RockSim.  This
looks a lot like one of my RockSim files when I open it in notepad.  It may
also help to know what version of rocksim you are using.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:10 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please

I have an upgraded version of the estes fat boy and have found a rocksim for
it in text form.  I do not know how to save it and get it into rocksim.  Can
anyone help?  Roksim file for the Estes Fat Boy follows:


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 13:40:40 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 13:40:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
In-Reply-To: <014901ca2cd4$54c4c130$fe4e4390$@net>
References: <e83b26700909031110j37c2ee9ek413b2de6247017d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<013f01ca2ccc$908890a0$b199b1e0$@net>
	<014901ca2cd4$54c4c130$fe4e4390$@net>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909031340n4ac93ee9s586b909a1d133330@mail.gmail.com>

How do I change it from an .xml to a .rkt?

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Marty Weiser <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>wrote:

> Also make sure you get rid of any word wrapping.  Each line should be
> either
> blank or end with an ">" as do the first few lines.  I could read this file
> in both versions 6 and 7 once I saved it and cleaned up the word wrap. The
> previous simulations did not show up in ver 6 so I am guessing that Scott
> McLeod created this file in version 7.- Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Marty Weiser
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:27 PM
> To: 'Christopher Guenther'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
>
> Christopher,
>
> Save the file with the .rkt extension and then open it in RockSim.  This
> looks a lot like one of my RockSim files when I open it in notepad.  It may
> also help to know what version of rocksim you are using.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:10 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
>
> I have an upgraded version of the estes fat boy and have found a rocksim
> for
> it in text form.  I do not know how to save it and get it into rocksim.
>  Can
> anyone help?  Roksim file for the Estes Fat Boy follows:
>
>

From sb at berfield.com  Thu Sep  3 14:07:15 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:07:15 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
Message-ID: <W1199618914193301252012035@webmail40>

Copy that text, paste it into Notepad or other text editor and save it as FatBoy.rkt.

It should load fine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Guenther [mailto:guentherchristopher at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 11:10 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please

I have an upgraded version of the estes fat boy and have found a rocksim forit in text form. I do not know how to save it and get it into rocksim. Cananyone help? Roksim file for the Estes Fat Boy follows:1FabToy10.7510.0.0.0.0.0.5914.40012070080102029mm FatBoy, glassed tube, G10 fins, chute in nosecone.Masses adjusted for true CG.Scott McLeod414000.,206.545476535679,263.621149631557,928.1133097651820.,7.91682432697728,13.9684853066881,99.80080882053470.,219.310297631782,272.940069429482,931.4272962880560.,10.132792472186,18.4456727175468,120.67506119189901Custom33.4521049.2093265Polystyrene PSNose cone73.02510.83.551566796422781.64514678241611.72420940714187e-0021.72420940714187e-0020.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,255110000,0,2502.3.38666666666667e-0022.3.38666666666667e-0021101.666.0413134.9253.1750.62.8650.0.0.Custom0.688.793909CardboardBody tube0.073.02513.366806729607431.751.25410101093006e-0021.25410101093006e-0020.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,255120000,0,2500.0.0.0.162.86559.6963.5100.12.70.0.1Custom0.724.99563538Aircraft plywood (Birch)Bulkhead0.0-2.0324.480727978582721.0160.0.0.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,255130000,0,2500.0.0.0.162.230.2.032011Custom42.5240.nose weight0.169.850.0.0.0.0.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,255140000,0,2500.0.0.0.100.Custom0.1905.23598922G10 fiberglassBody tube0.00.55.618741016985101.64.22391354630827e-0024.22391354630827e-0020.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,255150000,0,2500.0.0.0.166.16764.77203.2100.12.70.0.0Custom0.1905.23598922G10 fiberglassFin set0.0123.82536.587371980997855.69495228882068.0645e-0032.41935e-0020.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,255160000,0,2505.916824326977280.2649142231221548.132792472185960.2649142231221541379.37547.62563.572.470891425034150.80035044833591.58750110.0.0.10.68LOC/Presision0.1121.29241Papermotor mount0.076.211.045469637068663.50.0.0.0LOC MMT-1.140.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,255170000,0,2500.0.0.0.130.73429.083127.1129.0.0.0.1Public Missiles45.3596.685e-003Rip stop nylonParachute0.150.816.346697407294550.80.0.0.1PML PAR-24R24 in. nylon0.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,2551100000,0,2500.0.0.0.1609.6152.4880.508.10.Thin poly0.75Custom8.5050.fin tabs0.1165.10.0.0.0.0.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,2551110000,0,2500.0.0.0.100.Custom11.340.epoxy0.1203.20.0.0.0.0.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,2551120000,0,2500.0.0.0.100.Custom17.010.shock cord/nomex0.138.10.0.0.0.0.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,2551130000,0,2500.0.0.0.100.LOC0.688.793909CardboardLaunch lug0.081.9151.6621935829563650.85.0908267047224e-0032.8375618833165e-0030.0LL-2537.52850.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,2551140000,0,2500.0.0.0.18.896.985101.61Custom0.1905.23598922G10 fiberglassRing0.088.97.782492614143410.80.0.0.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,255180000,0,2500.0.0.0.164.7730.7341.6001Custom0.1905.23598922G10 fiberglassRing0.0190.57.782492614143410.80.0.0.00.0.1.0.1.0.1.0,0,2500,0,250255,255,255190000,0,2500.0.0.0.164.7730.7341.60011235.58802607435260.301938961581160.59773039945113.784999999997811.5839999999979117.5694953880067,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.1235.58802607435,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.12.2009999999987,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.02.200999999999870.12.20099999999870.680365190887775259.3307787959180.160.1085352983216.376460487760142.7776296948531e-00502.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[G75J-10] 15.81844721323180.914400084490560.0.0.161.95599999999990.50110000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1G75J0.12.70.-110.1205.01492188681272.69703250297300.75645164881513.256999999998111.7559999999981122.0074331533653,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.1180.68689282084,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.15.5009999999968,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.21.500999999999950.15.50099999999680.429359041328942272.2497540518170.300.7564516488154.771567538461851.0428116406493e-00502.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[H128W-14] 21.7981850548420.914400084490560.0.0.1241.304999999999970.110000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1H128W0.12.70.-114.1025.74350007626220.490741439641190.83224798306312.770999999998410.7699999999985110.1767013251078,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.1025.74350007626,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.12.0009999999988,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.12.000999999999890.12.00099999999880.750838535379445219.7772329942330.190.8322350091934.93812855908853.74046148590514e-00502.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[G64-10] 15.62634815443710.914400084490560.0.0.1861.834999999999910.210000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1G640.12.70.-110.1203.76197662647305.335770536402538.8618573558812.898999999998312.0989999999983118.469089677764,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.1186.31745224458,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.14.8009999999972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.20.8000000000000010.14.80099999999720.204898564198042305.1002647545040.538.2858946955.637967575138784.70875442037315e-00602.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[H238T-14] 29.33518900310270.914400084490560.0.6.1e-0020.7090000000000010.310000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1H238T0.12.70.-114.598.885777653938123.856505254752130.68640326734210.51199999999967.8309999999998110.7670429414741,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.598.885777653938,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.7.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.9.68000000000007,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.12.680999999999820.9.680000000000070.791605165239427123.282413567820.130.6864032673421.65213220023446.92393498610319e-00502.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[F20E-7] 14.51567281101270.91440009052560.0.0.1271.832999999999911.e-00210000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1F20E0.12.70.-17.1029.41897532228195.364796983671153.19575966724512.80799999999839.7469999999985718.11828076068059,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.1029.10280541737,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.13.0609999999982,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.13.060999999999770.13.06099999999820.66322514125563194.455796546050.153.1957596672454.350317503165614.56540081175797e-00502.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[G40-10] 15.89701461401740.91440009052560.0.0.1322.369999999999854.e-00210000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1G400.12.70.-110.1011.03482256201243.89772855699252.56171711146912.114999999998710.613999999998817.90594104554254,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.1011.03482256201,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.11.5009999999991,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.11.500999999999950.11.50099999999910.375318684858537243.41411827660.252.5617171114695.187162234035531.90454113269684e-00502.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[G80-10] 21.1829100005110.91440009052560.0.9.10000000000001e-0021.355999999999961.e-00210000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1G800.12.70.-110.1024.10584956972275.740977491777356.12695872667712.011999999998811.0119999999988110.8961058959573,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.1024.10584956972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.11.0009999999993,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.01.0.11.00099999999930.351331804325076275.3455709194720.355.4533716416116.297952481292161.39384053111768e-00502.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[G125-10] 22.75811979389310.91440009052560.0.0.1030.9910000000000010.410000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1G1250.12.70.-110.1393.35530737436323.607540336408536.49934083630813.773999999997812.3729999999978116.2918405895321,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.1380.49355093261,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.15.4009999999969,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.21.400999999999968.02989130625284e+28315.40099999999690.196834337251715323.2397995233180.536.4993408363086.600441070796623.81512895289084e-00602.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[H180W-14] 28.93668986744670.914400096560640.0.5.9e-0021.170999999999980.10000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1H180W0.12.70.-114.1325.22883247277347.735022687323577.47590411194513.34999999999812.389999999998115.9623733149263,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.1312.63508085216,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.14.9609999999971,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.20.9600000000000010.14.96099999999710.170248769319544347.4316255876460.577.4759041119458.898605412119413.10870619215658e-00602.2400.759.96833.550.25.304.8[H220T-14] 31.31484724653760.914400102595680.0.5.7e-0020.7920000000000010.10000earthearth0.0.0.0.0.0.,0.,0.0.,0.,0.32,32,321010.0.0.0.1H220T0.12.70.-114._______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 14:15:56 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:15:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
In-Reply-To: <W1199618914193301252012035@webmail40>
References: <W1199618914193301252012035@webmail40>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909031415nc53edcdmff1497a82521393a@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you everyone I got it worked out and now am testing different motors.
A Fat Boy hitting 6k feet Love it.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com> wrote:

> Copy that text, paste it into Notepad or other text editor and save it as
> FatBoy.rkt.
>
> It should load fine.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Christopher Guenther [mailto:guentherchristopher at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 3, 2009 11:10 AM
> *To:* rockets at rocketsnw.com
> *Subject:* [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
>
> I have an upgraded version of the estes fat boy and have found a rocksim
> for it in text form. I do not know how to save it and get it into rocksim.
> Can anyone help? Roksim file for the Estes Fat Boy follows: 1 FabToy 1 0.75
> 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 5 914.4001207008 0 1 0 2 0 29mm FatBoy, glassed tube,
> G10 fins, chute in nosecone. Masses adjusted for true CG. Scott McLeod 4 14
> 0 0 0.,206.545476535679,263.621149631557,928.113309765182
> 0.,7.91682432697728,13.9684853066881,99.8008088205347
> 0.,219.310297631782,272.940069429482,931.427296288056
> 0.,10.132792472186,18.4456727175468,120.675061191899 0 1 Custom 33.452
> 1049.2093265 Polystyrene PS Nose cone 73.025 1 0. 83.5515667964227
> 81.6451467824161 1.72420940714187e-002 1.72420940714187e-002 0. 0 0. 0. 1.
> 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 1 0 0 0 0,0,250 2.
> 3.38666666666667e-002 2. 3.38666666666667e-002 1 101.6 66.04 1 3 1 34.925
> 3.175 0. 62.865 0. 0. 0. Custom 0. 688.793909 Cardboard Body tube 0. 0
> 73.025 13.3668067296074 31.75 1.25410101093006e-002 1.25410101093006e-002 0.
> 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 2 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0.
> 0. 0. 1 62.865 59.69 63.5 1 0 0. 12.7 0. 0. 1 Custom 0. 724.99563538
> Aircraft plywood (Birch) Bulkhead 0. 0 -2.032 4.48072797858272 1.016 0. 0.
> 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 3 0 0 0 0,0,250 0.
> 0. 0. 0. 1 62.23 0. 2.032 0 1 1 Custom 42.524 0. nose weight 0. 1 69.85 0.
> 0. 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 4 0 0 0
> 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 0 0. Custom 0. 1905.23598922 G10 fiberglass Body tube
> 0. 0 0. 55.618741016985 101.6 4.22391354630827e-002 4.22391354630827e-002 0.
> 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 5 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0.
> 0. 0. 1 66.167 64.77 203.2 1 0 0. 12.7 0. 0. 0 Custom 0. 1905.23598922 G10
> fiberglass Fin set 0. 0 123.825 36.5873719809978 55.6949522888206
> 8.0645e-003 2.41935e-002 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250
> 255,255,255 1 6 0 0 0 0,0,250 5.91682432697728 0.264914223122154
> 8.13279247218596 0.264914223122154 1 3 79.375 47.625 63.5 72.4708914250341
> 50.8003504483359 1.5875 0 1 1 0. 0. 0. 1 0.68 LOC/Presision 0. 1121.29241
> Paper motor mount 0. 0 76.2 11.0454696370686 63.5 0. 0. 0. 0 LOC MMT-1.14 0.
> 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 7 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0.
> 1 30.734 29.083 127. 1 1 29. 0. 0. 0. 1 Public Missiles 45.359 6.685e-003
> Rip stop nylon Parachute 0. 1 50.8 16.3466974072945 50.8 0. 0. 0. 1 PML
> PAR-24R 24 in. nylon 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 10 0
> 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 609.6 152.4 8 8 0. 508. 1 0. Thin poly 0.75 Custom
> 8.505 0. fin tabs 0. 1 165.1 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250
> 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 11 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 0 0. Custom 11.34 0.
> epoxy 0. 1 203.2 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250
> 255,255,255 1 12 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 0 0. Custom 17.01 0. shock
> cord/nomex 0. 1 38.1 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250
> 255,255,255 1 13 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 0 0. LOC 0. 688.793909
> Cardboard Launch lug 0. 0 81.915 1.66219358295636 50.8 5.0908267047224e-003
> 2.8375618833165e-003 0. 0 LL-25 37.5285 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250
> 255,255,255 1 14 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 8.89 6.985 101.6 1 Custom 0.
> 1905.23598922 G10 fiberglass Ring 0. 0 88.9 7.78249261414341 0.8 0. 0. 0. 0
> 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 8 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0.
> 0. 1 64.77 30.734 1.6 0 0 1 Custom 0. 1905.23598922 G10 fiberglass Ring 0. 0
> 190.5 7.78249261414341 0.8 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250
> 255,255,255 1 9 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 64.77 30.734 1.6 0 0 1
> 1235.58802607435 260.301938961581 160.597730399451 13.7849999999978
> 11.5839999999979 1 17.5694953880067,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 1235.58802607435,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 12.2009999999987,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 0 2.20099999999987 0.
> 12.2009999999987 0.680365190887775 259.330778795918 0. 160.108535298321
> 6.37646048776014 2.7776296948531e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8
> [G75J-10] 15.8184472132318 0.91440008449056 0. 0. 0.16 1.9559999999999 0.501
> 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0.
> 0. 1 G75J 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1205.01492188681 272.69703250297
> 300.756451648815 13.2569999999981 11.7559999999981 1
> 22.0074331533653,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 1180.68689282084,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 15.5009999999968,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 2 1.50099999999995 0.
> 15.5009999999968 0.429359041328942 272.249754051817 0. 300.756451648815
> 4.77156753846185 1.0428116406493e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8
> [H128W-14] 21.798185054842 0.91440008449056 0. 0. 0.124 1.30499999999997 0.1
> 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0.
> 0. 1 H128W 0. 12.7 0. -1 14. 1025.74350007626 220.490741439641
> 190.832247983063 12.7709999999984 10.7699999999985 1
> 10.1767013251078,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 1025.74350007626,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 12.0009999999988,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1 2.00099999999989 0.
> 12.0009999999988 0.750838535379445 219.777232994233 0. 190.832235009193
> 4.9381285590885 3.74046148590514e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8
> [G64-10] 15.6263481544371 0.91440008449056 0. 0. 0.186 1.83499999999991 0.2
> 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0.
> 0. 1 G64 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1203.76197662647 305.335770536402 538.86185735588
> 12.8989999999983 12.0989999999983 1
> 18.469089677764,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 1186.31745224458,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 14.8009999999972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 2 0.800000000000001 0.
> 14.8009999999972 0.204898564198042 305.100264754504 0. 538.285894695
> 5.63796757513878 4.70875442037315e-006 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25.
> 304.8 [H238T-14] 29.3351890031027 0.91440008449056 0. 0. 6.1e-002
> 0.709000000000001 0.3 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0.
> 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 H238T 0. 12.7 0. -1 14. 598.885777653938
> 123.856505254752 130.686403267342 10.5119999999996 7.8309999999998 1
> 10.7670429414741,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 598.885777653938,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 7.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 9.68000000000007,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1 2.68099999999982 0.
> 9.68000000000007 0.791605165239427 123.28241356782 0. 130.686403267342
> 1.6521322002344 6.92393498610319e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8
> [F20E-7] 14.5156728110127 0.9144000905256 0. 0. 0.127 1.83299999999991
> 1.e-002 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0.
> 0. 0. 0. 1 F20E 0. 12.7 0. -1 7. 1029.41897532228 195.364796983671
> 153.195759667245 12.8079999999983 9.74699999999857 1
> 8.11828076068059,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 1029.10280541737,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 13.0609999999982,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1 3.06099999999977 0.
> 13.0609999999982 0.66322514125563 194.45579654605 0. 153.195759667245
> 4.35031750316561 4.56540081175797e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25.
> 304.8 [G40-10] 15.8970146140174 0.9144000905256 0. 0. 0.132 2.36999999999985
> 4.e-002 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0.
> 0. 0. 0. 1 G40 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1011.03482256201 243.89772855699
> 252.561717111469 12.1149999999987 10.6139999999988 1
> 7.90594104554254,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 1011.03482256201,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 11.5009999999991,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1 1.50099999999995 0.
> 11.5009999999991 0.375318684858537 243.4141182766 0. 252.561717111469
> 5.18716223403553 1.90454113269684e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25.
> 304.8 [G80-10] 21.182910000511 0.9144000905256 0. 0. 9.10000000000001e-002
> 1.35599999999996 1.e-002 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0.
> 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 G80 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1024.10584956972
> 275.740977491777 356.126958726677 12.0119999999988 11.0119999999988 1
> 10.8961058959573,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 1024.10584956972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 11.0009999999993,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 0 1. 0. 11.0009999999993
> 0.351331804325076 275.345570919472 0. 355.453371641611 6.29795248129216
> 1.39384053111768e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [G125-10]
> 22.7581197938931 0.9144000905256 0. 0. 0.103 0.991000000000001 0.4 1000 0
> earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1
> G125 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1393.35530737436 323.607540336408 536.499340836308
> 13.7739999999978 12.3729999999978 1
> 16.2918405895321,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 1380.49355093261,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 15.4009999999969,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 2 1.40099999999996
> 8.02989130625284e+283 15.4009999999969 0.196834337251715 323.239799523318 0.
> 536.499340836308 6.60044107079662 3.81512895289084e-006 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968
> 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [H180W-14] 28.9366898674467 0.91440009656064 0. 0.
> 5.9e-002 1.17099999999998 0. 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0.
> 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 H180W 0. 12.7 0. -1 14.
> 1325.22883247277 347.735022687323 577.475904111945 13.349999999998
> 12.389999999998 1 15.9623733149263,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 1312.63508085216,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.
> 14.9609999999971,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 2 0.960000000000001 0.
> 14.9609999999971 0.170248769319544 347.431625587646 0. 577.475904111945
> 8.89860541211941 3.10870619215658e-006 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25.
> 304.8 [H220T-14] 31.3148472465376 0.91440010259568 0. 0. 5.7e-002
> 0.792000000000001 0. 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0.
> 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 H220T 0. 12.7 0. -1 14.
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From sb at berfield.com  Thu Sep  3 15:54:06 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:54:06 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
Message-ID: <W18365327144151252018446@webmail30>

Last year at XPRS, I flew a scratch FatBoy (slightly non standard materials) with a J90. I think it went over 9K -- but it is still somewhere on the Playa. It's fun when the flame form the motor is 4X the size of the rocket.
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Guenther [mailto:guentherchristopher at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 02:15 PM
To: 'Scott Berfield'
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please

Thank you everyone I got it worked out and now am testing different motors. A Fat Boy hitting 6k feet Love it.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com> wrote:
Copy that text, paste it into Notepad or other text editor and save it as FatBoy.rkt.

It should load fine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Guenther [mailto:guentherchristopher at gmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 11:10 AM
To:rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please


I have an upgraded version of the estes fat boy and have found a rocksim for it in text form. I do not know how to save it and get it into rocksim. Can anyone help? Roksim file for the Estes Fat Boy follows: 1 FabToy 1 0.75 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 5 914.4001207008 0 1 0 2 0 29mm FatBoy, glassed tube, G10 fins, chute in nosecone. Masses adjusted for true CG. Scott McLeod 4 14 0 0 0.,206.545476535679,263.621149631557,928.113309765182 0.,7.91682432697728,13.9684853066881,99.8008088205347 0.,219.310297631782,272.940069429482,931.427296288056 0.,10.132792472186,18.4456727175468,120.675061191899 0 1 Custom 33.452 1049.2093265 Polystyrene PS Nose cone 73.025 1 0. 83.5515667964227 81.6451467824161 1.72420940714187e-002 1.72420940714187e-002 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 1 0 0 0 0,0,250 2. 3.38666666666667e-002 2. 3.38666666666667e-002 1 101.6 66.04 1 3 1 34.925 3.175 0. 62.865 0. 0. 0. Custom 0. 688.793909 Cardboard Body tube 0. 0 73.025 13.3668067296074 31.75 1.25410101093006e-002 1.25410101093006e-002 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 2 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 62.865 59.69 63.5 1 0 0. 12.7 0. 0. 1 Custom 0. 724.99563538 Aircraft plywood (Birch) Bulkhead 0. 0 -2.032 4.48072797858272 1.016 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 3 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 62.23 0. 2.032 0 1 1 Custom 42.524 0. nose weight 0. 1 69.85 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 4 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 0 0. Custom 0. 1905.23598922 G10 fiberglass Body tube 0. 0 0. 55.618741016985 101.6 4.22391354630827e-002 4.22391354630827e-002 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 5 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 66.167 64.77 203.2 1 0 0. 12.7 0. 0. 0 Custom 0. 1905.23598922 G10 fiberglass Fin set 0. 0 123.825 36.5873719809978 55.6949522888206 8.0645e-003 2.41935e-002 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 6 0 0 0 0,0,250 5.91682432697728 0.264914223122154 8.13279247218596 0.264914223122154 1 3 79.375 47.625 63.5 72.4708914250341 50.8003504483359 1.5875 0 1 1 0. 0. 0. 1 0.68 LOC/Presision 0. 1121.29241 Paper motor mount 0. 0 76.2 11.0454696370686 63.5 0. 0. 0. 0 LOC MMT-1.14 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 7 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 30.734 29.083 127. 1 1 29. 0. 0. 0. 1 Public Missiles 45.359 6.685e-003 Rip stop nylon Parachute 0. 1 50.8 16.3466974072945 50.8 0. 0. 0. 1 PML PAR-24R 24 in. nylon 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 10 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 609.6 152.4 8 8 0. 508. 1 0. Thin poly 0.75 Custom 8.505 0. fin tabs 0. 1 165.1 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 11 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 0 0. Custom 11.34 0. epoxy 0. 1 203.2 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 12 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 0 0. Custom 17.01 0. shock cord/nomex 0. 1 38.1 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 13 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 0 0. LOC 0. 688.793909 Cardboard Launch lug 0. 0 81.915 1.66219358295636 50.8 5.0908267047224e-003 2.8375618833165e-003 0. 0 LL-25 37.5285 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 14 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 8.89 6.985 101.6 1 Custom 0. 1905.23598922 G10 fiberglass Ring 0. 0 88.9 7.78249261414341 0.8 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 8 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 64.77 30.734 1.6 0 0 1 Custom 0. 1905.23598922 G10 fiberglass Ring 0. 0 190.5 7.78249261414341 0.8 0. 0. 0. 0 0. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0. 1. 0,0,250 0,0,250 255,255,255 1 9 0 0 0 0,0,250 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 64.77 30.734 1.6 0 0 1 1235.58802607435 260.301938961581 160.597730399451 13.7849999999978 11.5839999999979 1 17.5694953880067,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1235.58802607435,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 12.2009999999987,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 0 2.20099999999987 0. 12.2009999999987 0.680365190887775 259.330778795918 0. 160.108535298321 6.37646048776014 2.7776296948531e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [G75J-10] 15.8184472132318 0.91440008449056 0. 0. 0.16 1.9559999999999 0.501 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 G75J 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1205.01492188681 272.69703250297 300.756451648815 13.2569999999981 11.7559999999981 1 22.0074331533653,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1180.68689282084,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 15.5009999999968,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 2 1.50099999999995 0. 15.5009999999968 0.429359041328942 272.249754051817 0. 300.756451648815 4.77156753846185 1.0428116406493e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [H128W-14] 21.798185054842 0.91440008449056 0. 0. 0.124 1.30499999999997 0.1 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 H128W 0. 12.7 0. -1 14. 1025.74350007626 220.490741439641 190.832247983063 12.7709999999984 10.7699999999985 1 10.1767013251078,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1025.74350007626,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 12.0009999999988,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1 2.00099999999989 0. 12.0009999999988 0.750838535379445 219.777232994233 0. 190.832235009193 4.9381285590885 3.74046148590514e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [G64-10] 15.6263481544371 0.91440008449056 0. 0. 0.186 1.83499999999991 0.2 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 G64 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1203.76197662647 305.335770536402 538.86185735588 12.8989999999983 12.0989999999983 1 18.469089677764,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1186.31745224458,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.8009999999972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 2 0.800000000000001 0. 14.8009999999972 0.204898564198042 305.100264754504 0. 538.285894695 5.63796757513878 4.70875442037315e-006 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [H238T-14] 29.3351890031027 0.91440008449056 0. 0. 6.1e-002 0.709000000000001 0.3 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 H238T 0. 12.7 0. -1 14. 598.885777653938 123.856505254752 130.686403267342 10.5119999999996 7.8309999999998 1 10.7670429414741,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 598.885777653938,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 7.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 9.68000000000007,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1 2.68099999999982 0. 9.68000000000007 0.791605165239427 123.28241356782 0. 130.686403267342 1.6521322002344 6.92393498610319e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [F20E-7] 14.5156728110127 0.9144000905256 0. 0. 0.127 1.83299999999991 1.e-002 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 F20E 0. 12.7 0. -1 7. 1029.41897532228 195.364796983671 153.195759667245 12.8079999999983 9.74699999999857 1 8.11828076068059,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1029.10280541737,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 13.0609999999982,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1 3.06099999999977 0. 13.0609999999982 0.66322514125563 194.45579654605 0. 153.195759667245 4.35031750316561 4.56540081175797e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [G40-10] 15.8970146140174 0.9144000905256 0. 0. 0.132 2.36999999999985 4.e-002 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 G40 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1011.03482256201 243.89772855699 252.561717111469 12.1149999999987 10.6139999999988 1 7.90594104554254,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1011.03482256201,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 11.5009999999991,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1 1.50099999999995 0. 11.5009999999991 0.375318684858537 243.4141182766 0. 252.561717111469 5.18716223403553 1.90454113269684e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [G80-10] 21.182910000511 0.9144000905256 0. 0. 9.10000000000001e-002 1.35599999999996 1.e-002 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 G80 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1024.10584956972 275.740977491777 356.126958726677 12.0119999999988 11.0119999999988 1 10.8961058959573,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1024.10584956972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 11.0009999999993,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 0 1. 0. 11.0009999999993 0.351331804325076 275.345570919472 0. 355.453371641611 6.29795248129216 1.39384053111768e-005 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [G125-10] 22.7581197938931 0.9144000905256 0. 0. 0.103 0.991000000000001 0.4 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 G125 0. 12.7 0. -1 10. 1393.35530737436 323.607540336408 536.499340836308 13.7739999999978 12.3729999999978 1 16.2918405895321,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1380.49355093261,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 15.4009999999969,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 2 1.40099999999996 8.02989130625284e+283 15.4009999999969 0.196834337251715 323.239799523318 0. 536.499340836308 6.60044107079662 3.81512895289084e-006 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [H180W-14] 28.9366898674467 0.91440009656064 0. 0. 5.9e-002 1.17099999999998 0. 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 H180W 0. 12.7 0. -1 14. 1325.22883247277 347.735022687323 577.475904111945 13.349999999998 12.389999999998 1 15.9623733149263,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 1312.63508085216,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 14.9609999999971,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0. 2 0.960000000000001 0. 14.9609999999971 0.170248769319544 347.431625587646 0. 577.475904111945 8.89860541211941 3.10870619215658e-006 0 2.24 0 0. 759.968 33.5 50. 25. 304.8 [H220T-14] 31.3148472465376 0.91440010259568 0. 0. 5.7e-002 0.792000000000001 0. 1000 0 earth earth 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0.,0.,0. 0.,0.,0. 32,32,32 10 1 0. 0. 0. 0. 1 H220T 0. 12.7 0. -1 14. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 13:08:53 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 13:08:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
In-Reply-To: <013f01ca2ccc$908890a0$b199b1e0$@net>
References: <e83b26700909031110j37c2ee9ek413b2de6247017d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<013f01ca2ccc$908890a0$b199b1e0$@net>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909031308h5583c2c9mcd9f377114549de9@mail.gmail.com>

I am using rocksim9

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Marty Weiser <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>wrote:

> Christopher,
>
> Save the file with the .rkt extension and then open it in RockSim.  This
> looks a lot like one of my RockSim files when I open it in notepad.  It may
> also help to know what version of rocksim you are using.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:10 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim help please
>
> I have an upgraded version of the estes fat boy and have found a rocksim
> for
> it in text form.  I do not know how to save it and get it into rocksim.
>  Can
> anyone help?  Roksim file for the Estes Fat Boy follows:
>
> <RockSimDocument>
>  <FileVersion>1</FileVersion>
>  <DesignInformation>
>  <RocketDesign>
>   <Name>FabToy</Name>
>   <CalculateCD>1</CalculateCD>
>   <FixedCd>0.75</FixedCd>
>   <StageCount>1</StageCount>
>   <Stage3Mass>0.</Stage3Mass>
>   <Stage2Mass>0.</Stage2Mass>
>   <Stage1Mass>0.</Stage1Mass>
>   <Stage321CG>0.</Stage321CG>
>   <Stage32CG>0.</Stage32CG>
>   <Stage3CG>0.</Stage3CG>
>   <CPCalcFlags>5</CPCalcFlags>
>   <LaunchGuideLength>914.4001207008</LaunchGuideLength>
>   <UseKnownMass>0</UseKnownMass>
>   <DefaultFinish>1</DefaultFinish>
>   <FinishMedium>0</FinishMedium>
>   <FinishCoatCount>2</FinishCoatCount>
>   <GlueType>0</GlueType>
>   <Comments>29mm FatBoy, glassed tube, G10 fins, chute in nosecone.
> Masses adjusted for true CG.</Comments>
>   <Designer>Scott McLeod</Designer>
>   <CPSimFlags>4</CPSimFlags>
>   <LastSerialNumber>14</LastSerialNumber>
>   <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
>   <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
>   <CameraState></CameraState>
>
>
> <BarromanXN>0.,206.545476535679,263.621149631557,928.113309765182</BarromanX
> N>
>
>
> <BarrowmanCNa>0.,7.91682432697728,13.9684853066881,99.8008088205347</Barrowm
> anCNa>
>
>
> <RockSimXN>0.,219.310297631782,272.940069429482,931.427296288056</RockSimXN>
>
>
> <RockSimCNa>0.,10.132792472186,18.4456727175468,120.675061191899</RockSimCNa
> >
>   <ViewType>0</ViewType>
>   <ViewStageCount>1</ViewStageCount>
>   <SimulationEventList>
>   </SimulationEventList>
>   <Stage3Parts>
>    <NoseCone>
>     <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
>     <KnownMass>33.452</KnownMass>
>     <Density>1049.2093265</Density>
>     <Material>Polystyrene PS</Material>
>     <Name>Nose cone</Name>
>     <KnownCG>73.025</KnownCG>
>     <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
>     <Xb>0.</Xb>
>     <CalcMass>83.5515667964227</CalcMass>
>     <CalcCG>81.6451467824161</CalcCG>
>     <WettedSurface>1.72420940714187e-002</WettedSurface>
>     <PaintedSurface>1.72420940714187e-002</PaintedSurface>
>     <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
>     <DensityType>0</DensityType>
>     <PartNo></PartNo>
>     <PartDesc></PartDesc>
>     <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
>     <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
>     <Texture></Texture>
>     <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
>     <Specular>0.</Specular>
>     <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
>     <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
>     <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
>     <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
>     <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
>     <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
>     <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
>     <SerialNo>1</SerialNo>
>     <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
>     <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
>     <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
>     <Color>0,0,250</Color>
>     <BarrowmanCNa>2.</BarrowmanCNa>
>     <BarrowmanXN>3.38666666666667e-002</BarrowmanXN>
>     <RockSimCNa>2.</RockSimCNa>
>     <RockSimXN>3.38666666666667e-002</RockSimXN>
>     <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
>     <Len>101.6</Len>
>     <BaseDia>66.04</BaseDia>
>     <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
>     <ShapeCode>3</ShapeCode>
>     <ConstructionType>1</ConstructionType>
>     <ShoulderLen>34.925</ShoulderLen>
>     <WallThickness>3.175</WallThickness>
>     <ShapeParameter>0.</ShapeParameter>
>     <ShoulderOD>62.865</ShoulderOD>
>     <PointList></PointList>
>     <BaseExtensionLen>0.</BaseExtensionLen>
>     <CoreDia>0.</CoreDia>
>     <CoreLen>0.</CoreLen>
>     <AttachedParts>
>      <BodyTube>
>       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
>       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
>       <Density>688.793909</Density>
>       <Material>Cardboard</Material>
>       <Name>Body tube</Name>
>       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
>       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
>       <Xb>73.025</Xb>
>       <CalcMass>13.3668067296074</CalcMass>
>       <CalcCG>31.75</CalcCG>
>       <WettedSurface>1.25410101093006e-002</WettedSurface>
>       <PaintedSurface>1.25410101093006e-002</PaintedSurface>
>       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
>       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
>       <PartNo></PartNo>
>       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
>       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
>       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
>       <Texture></Texture>
>       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
>       <Specular>0.</Specular>
>       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
>       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
>       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
>       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
>       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
>       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
>       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
>       <SerialNo>2</SerialNo>
>       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
>       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
>       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
>       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
>       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
>       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
>       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
>       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
>       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
>       <OD>62.865</OD>
>       <ID>59.69</ID>
>       <Len>63.5</Len>
>       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
>       <IsMotorMount>0</IsMotorMount>
>       <MotorDia>0.</MotorDia>
>       <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
>       <FrontExtension>0.</FrontExtension>
>       <RearExtension>0.</RearExtension>
>       <IsInsideTube>1</IsInsideTube>
>       <AttachedParts>
>        <Ring>
>         <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
>         <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
>         <Density>724.99563538</Density>
>         <Material>Aircraft plywood (Birch)</Material>
>         <Name>Bulkhead</Name>
>         <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
>         <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
>         <Xb>-2.032</Xb>
>         <CalcMass>4.48072797858272</CalcMass>
>         <CalcCG>1.016</CalcCG>
>         <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
>         <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
>         <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
>         <DensityType>0</DensityType>
>         <PartNo></PartNo>
>         <PartDesc></PartDesc>
>         <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
>         <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
>         <Texture></Texture>
>         <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
>         <Specular>0.</Specular>
>         <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
>         <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
>         <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
>         <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
>         <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
>         <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
>         <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
>         <SerialNo>3</SerialNo>
>         <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
>         <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
>         <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
>         <Color>0,0,250</Color>
>         <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
>         <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
>         <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
>         <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
>         <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
>         <OD>62.23</OD>
>         <ID>0.</ID>
>         <Len>2.032</Len>
>         <FinishCode>0</FinishCode>
>         <UsageCode>1</UsageCode>
>         <AutoSize>1</AutoSize>
>         <AttachedParts>
>         </AttachedParts>
>        </Ring>
>       </AttachedParts>
>      </BodyTube>
>      <MassObject>
>       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
>       <KnownMass>42.524</KnownMass>
>       <Density>0.</Density>
>       <Material></Material>
>       <Name>nose weight</Name>
>       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
>       <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
>       <Xb>69.85</Xb>
>       <CalcMass>0.</CalcMass>
>       <CalcCG>0.</CalcCG>
>       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
>       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
>       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
>       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
>       <PartNo></PartNo>
>       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
>       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
>       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
>       <Texture></Texture>
>       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
>       <Specular>0.</Specular>
>       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
>       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
>       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
>       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
>       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
>       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
>       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
>       <SerialNo>4</SerialNo>
>       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
>       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
>       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
>       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
>       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
>       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
>       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
>       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
>       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
>       <TypeCode>0</TypeCode>
>       <Len>0.</Len>
>       <AttachedParts>
>       </AttachedParts>
>      </MassObject>
>     </AttachedParts>
>    </NoseCone>
>    <BodyTube>
>     <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
>     <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
>     <Density>1905.23598922</Density>
>     <Material>G10 fiberglass</Material>
>     <Name>Body tube</Name>
>     <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
>     <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
>     <Xb>0.</Xb>
>     <CalcMass>55.618741016985</CalcMass>
>     <CalcCG>101.6</CalcCG>
>     <WettedSurface>4.22391354630827e-002</WettedSurface>
>     <PaintedSurface>4.22391354630827e-002</PaintedSurface>
>     <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
>     <DensityType>0</DensityType>
>     <PartNo></PartNo>
>     <PartDesc></PartDesc>
>     <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
>     <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
>     <Texture></Texture>
>     <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
>     <Specular>0.</Specular>
>     <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
>     <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
>     <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
>     <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
>     <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
>     <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
>     <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
>     <SerialNo>5</SerialNo>
>     <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
>     <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
>     <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
>     <Color>0,0,250</Color>
>     <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
>     <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
>     <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
>     <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
>     <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
>     <OD>66.167</OD>
>     <ID>64.77</ID>
>     <Len>203.2</Len>
>     <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
>     <IsMotorMount>0</IsMotorMount>
>     <MotorDia>0.</MotorDia>
>     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
>     <FrontExtension>0.</FrontExtension>
>     <RearExtension>0.</RearExtension>
>     <IsInsideTube>0</IsInsideTube>
>     <AttachedParts>
>      <FinSet>
>       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
>       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
>       <Density>1905.23598922</Density>
>       <Material>G10 fiberglass</Material>
>       <Name>Fin set</Name>
>       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
>       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
>       <Xb>123.825</Xb>
>       <CalcMass>36.5873719809978</CalcMass>
>       <CalcCG>55.6949522888206</CalcCG>
>       <WettedSurface>8.0645e-003</WettedSurface>
>       <PaintedSurface>2.41935e-002</PaintedSurface>
>       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
>       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
>       <PartNo></PartNo>
>       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
>       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
>       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
>       <Texture></Texture>
>       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
>       <Specular>0.</Specular>
>       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
>       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
>       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
>       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
>       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
>       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
>       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
>       <SerialNo>6</SerialNo>
>       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
>       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
>       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
>       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
>       <BarrowmanCNa>5.91682432697728</BarrowmanCNa>
>       <BarrowmanXN>0.264914223122154</BarrowmanXN>
>       <RockSimCNa>8.13279247218596</RockSimCNa>
>       <RockSimXN>0.264914223122154</RockSimXN>
>       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
>       <FinCount>3</FinCount>
>       <RootChord>79.375</RootChord>
>       <TipChord>47.625</TipChord>
>       <SemiSpan>63.5</SemiSpan>
>       <MidChordLen>72.4708914250341</MidChordLen>
>       <SweepDistance>50.8003504483359</SweepDistance>
>       <Thickness>1.5875</Thickness>
>       <ShapeCode>0</ShapeCode>
>       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
>       <TipShapeCode>1</TipShapeCode>
>       <TabLength>0.</TabLength>
>       <TabDepth>0.</TabDepth>
>       <TabOffset>0.</TabOffset>
>       <SweepMode>1</SweepMode>
>       <SweepAngle>0.68</SweepAngle>
>       <AttachedParts>
>       </AttachedParts>
>      </FinSet>
>      <BodyTube>
>       <PartMfg>LOC/Presision</PartMfg>
>       <KnownMass>0.</KnownMass>
>       <Density>1121.29241</Density>
>       <Material>Paper</Material>
>       <Name>motor mount</Name>
>       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
>       <UseKnownCG>0</UseKnownCG>
>       <Xb>76.2</Xb>
>       <CalcMass>11.0454696370686</CalcMass>
>       <CalcCG>63.5</CalcCG>
>       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
>       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
>       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
>       <DensityType>0</DensityType>
>       <PartNo>LOC MMT-1.14</PartNo>
>       <PartDesc></PartDesc>
>       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
>       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
>       <Texture></Texture>
>       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
>       <Specular>0.</Specular>
>       <SpecularPower>1.</SpecularPower>
>       <Ambient>0.</Ambient>
>       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
>       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
>       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
>       <SpecularColor>255,255,255</SpecularColor>
>       <UseSingleColor>1</UseSingleColor>
>       <SerialNo>7</SerialNo>
>       <DisplayFlags>0</DisplayFlags>
>       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
>       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
>       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
>       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
>       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
>       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
>       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
>       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
>       <OD>30.734</OD>
>       <ID>29.083</ID>
>       <Len>127.</Len>
>       <FinishCode>1</FinishCode>
>       <IsMotorMount>1</IsMotorMount>
>       <MotorDia>29.</MotorDia>
>       <EngineOverhang>0.</EngineOverhang>
>       <FrontExtension>0.</FrontExtension>
>       <RearExtension>0.</RearExtension>
>       <IsInsideTube>1</IsInsideTube>
>       <AttachedParts>
>       </AttachedParts>
>      </BodyTube>
>      <Parachute>
>       <PartMfg>Public Missiles</PartMfg>
>       <KnownMass>45.359</KnownMass>
>       <Density>6.685e-003</Density>
>       <Material>Rip stop nylon</Material>
>       <Name>Parachute</Name>
>       <KnownCG>0.</KnownCG>
>       <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
>       <Xb>50.8</Xb>
>       <CalcMass>16.3466974072945</CalcMass>
>       <CalcCG>50.8</CalcCG>
>       <WettedSurface>0.</WettedSurface>
>       <PaintedSurface>0.</PaintedSurface>
>       <GlueJointLength>0.</GlueJointLength>
>       <DensityType>1</DensityType>
>       <PartNo>PML PAR-24R</PartNo>
>       <PartDesc>24 in. nylon</PartDesc>
>       <RadialLoc>0.</RadialLoc>
>       <RadialAngle>0.</RadialAngle>
>       <Texture></Texture>
>       <Opacity>1.</Opacity>
>       <Specular>0.</Specular>
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>       <Diffuse>1.</Diffuse>
>       <AbientColor>0,0,250</AbientColor>
>       <DiffuseColor>0,0,250</DiffuseColor>
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>       <MetricsFlags>0</MetricsFlags>
>       <LocationMode>0</LocationMode>
>       <Color>0,0,250</Color>
>       <BarrowmanCNa>0.</BarrowmanCNa>
>       <BarrowmanXN>0.</BarrowmanXN>
>       <RockSimCNa>0.</RockSimCNa>
>       <RockSimXN>0.</RockSimXN>
>       <SimpleColorModel>1</SimpleColorModel>
>       <Dia>609.6</Dia>
>       <SpillHoleDia>152.4</SpillHoleDia>
>       <SideCount>8</SideCount>
>       <ShroudLineCount>8</ShroudLineCount>
>       <Thickness>0.</Thickness>
>       <ShroudLineLen>508.</ShroudLineLen>
>       <ChuteCount>1</ChuteCount>
>       <ShroudLineMassPerMM>0.</ShroudLineMassPerMM>
>       <ShroudLineMaterial>Thin poly</ShroudLineMaterial>
>       <DragCoefficient>0.75</DragCoefficient>
>       <AttachedParts>
>       </AttachedParts>
>      </Parachute>
>      <MassObject>
>       <PartMfg>Custom</PartMfg>
>       <KnownMass>8.505</KnownMass>
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>       <Material></Material>
>       <Name>fin tabs</Name>
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>       <UseKnownCG>1</UseKnownCG>
>       <Xb>165.1</Xb>
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>
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>
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>
>
> <VelocityAtDeplyment>22.0074331533653,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
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>
> <AltitudeAtDeployment>1180.68689282084,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
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>   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
>   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
>   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
>   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
>   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
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>   <MaxAcceleration>190.832247983063</MaxAcceleration>
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>
>
> <VelocityAtDeplyment>10.1767013251078,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
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>
>
> <AltitudeAtDeployment>1025.74350007626,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
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>   <DelayTime>10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
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>   <TimeToBurnout>2.00099999999989</TimeToBurnout>
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>   <TimeToEject>12.0009999999988</TimeToEject>
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>   <MaxRange>3.74046148590514e-005</MaxRange>
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>   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
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>   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
>   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
>   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
>   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
>   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
>   <SimulationName>[G64-10] </SimulationName>
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>   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440008449056</LaunchGuideLen>
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>   <Comments></Comments>
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>   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.186</TimeToFreeFlight>
>   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.83499999999991</TimeToMaxVelocity>
>   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.2</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
>   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
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>   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
>   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
>   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
>   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
>   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
>   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
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>   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
>   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
>   <CG0>0.</CG0>
>   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
>   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
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>   </SimulationEvents>
>   <Stage1Engines>
>   </Stage1Engines>
>   <Stage2Engines>
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>   <Stage3Engines>
>    <EngineSet>
>     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
>     <EngineCode>G64</EngineCode>
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>     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
>     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
>     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
>     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
>     <EjectionDelay>10.</EjectionDelay>
>    </EngineSet>
>   </Stage3Engines>
>  </SimulationResults>
>  <SimulationResults>
>   <MaxAltitude>1203.76197662647</MaxAltitude>
>   <MaxVelocity>305.335770536402</MaxVelocity>
>   <MaxAcceleration>538.86185735588</MaxAcceleration>
>   <TimeToApogee>12.8989999999983</TimeToApogee>
>   <OptimalDelay>12.0989999999983</OptimalDelay>
>   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
>
>
> <VelocityAtDeplyment>18.469089677764,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAtD
> eplyment>
>
>
> <AltitudeAtDeployment>1186.31745224458,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
> tDeployment>
>   <DelayTime>14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
>   <EjectTime>14.8009999999972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
>   <FinalState>2</FinalState>
>   <TimeToBurnout>0.800000000000001</TimeToBurnout>
>   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
>   <TimeToEject>14.8009999999972</TimeToEject>
>   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.204898564198042</MinLaunchGuideLen>
>   <MaxVertVelocity>305.100264754504</MaxVertVelocity>
>   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
>   <MaxVertAcceleration>538.285894695</MaxVertAcceleration>
>   <MaxHorzAcceleration>5.63796757513878</MaxHorzAcceleration>
>   <MaxRange>4.70875442037315e-006</MaxRange>
>   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
>   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
>   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
>   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
>   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
>   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
>   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
>   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
>   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
>   <SimulationName>[H238T-14] </SimulationName>
>   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>29.3351890031027</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
>   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440008449056</LaunchGuideLen>
>   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
>   <Comments></Comments>
>   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
>   <TimeToFreeFlight>6.1e-002</TimeToFreeFlight>
>   <TimeToMaxVelocity>0.709000000000001</TimeToMaxVelocity>
>   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.3</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
>   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
>   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
>   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
>   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
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>   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
>   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
>   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
>   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
>   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
>   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
>   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
>   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
>   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
>   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
>   <CG0>0.</CG0>
>   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
>   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
>   <SimulationEvents>
>   </SimulationEvents>
>   <Stage1Engines>
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>   <Stage2Engines>
>   </Stage2Engines>
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>    <EngineSet>
>     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
>     <EngineCode>H238T</EngineCode>
>     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
>     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
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>     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
>     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
>     <EjectionDelay>14.</EjectionDelay>
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>   </Stage3Engines>
>  </SimulationResults>
>  <SimulationResults>
>   <MaxAltitude>598.885777653938</MaxAltitude>
>   <MaxVelocity>123.856505254752</MaxVelocity>
>   <MaxAcceleration>130.686403267342</MaxAcceleration>
>   <TimeToApogee>10.5119999999996</TimeToApogee>
>   <OptimalDelay>7.8309999999998</OptimalDelay>
>   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
>
>
> <VelocityAtDeplyment>10.7670429414741,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
> Deplyment>
>
>
> <AltitudeAtDeployment>598.885777653938,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
> tDeployment>
>   <DelayTime>7.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
>   <EjectTime>9.68000000000007,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
>   <FinalState>1</FinalState>
>   <TimeToBurnout>2.68099999999982</TimeToBurnout>
>   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
>   <TimeToEject>9.68000000000007</TimeToEject>
>   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.791605165239427</MinLaunchGuideLen>
>   <MaxVertVelocity>123.28241356782</MaxVertVelocity>
>   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
>   <MaxVertAcceleration>130.686403267342</MaxVertAcceleration>
>   <MaxHorzAcceleration>1.6521322002344</MaxHorzAcceleration>
>   <MaxRange>6.92393498610319e-005</MaxRange>
>   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
>   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
>   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
>   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
>   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
>   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
>   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
>   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
>   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
>   <SimulationName>[F20E-7] </SimulationName>
>   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>14.5156728110127</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
>   <LaunchGuideLen>0.9144000905256</LaunchGuideLen>
>   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
>   <Comments></Comments>
>   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
>   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.127</TimeToFreeFlight>
>   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.83299999999991</TimeToMaxVelocity>
>   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>1.e-002</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
>   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
>   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
>   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
>   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
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>   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
>   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
>   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
>   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
>   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
>   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
>   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
>   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
>   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
>   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
>   <CG0>0.</CG0>
>   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
>   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
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>   <Stage1Engines>
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>   <Stage3Engines>
>    <EngineSet>
>     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
>     <EngineCode>F20E</EngineCode>
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>     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
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>     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
>     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
>     <EjectionDelay>7.</EjectionDelay>
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>  </SimulationResults>
>  <SimulationResults>
>   <MaxAltitude>1029.41897532228</MaxAltitude>
>   <MaxVelocity>195.364796983671</MaxVelocity>
>   <MaxAcceleration>153.195759667245</MaxAcceleration>
>   <TimeToApogee>12.8079999999983</TimeToApogee>
>   <OptimalDelay>9.74699999999857</OptimalDelay>
>   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
>
>
> <VelocityAtDeplyment>8.11828076068059,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
> Deplyment>
>
>
> <AltitudeAtDeployment>1029.10280541737,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
> tDeployment>
>   <DelayTime>10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
>   <EjectTime>13.0609999999982,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
>   <FinalState>1</FinalState>
>   <TimeToBurnout>3.06099999999977</TimeToBurnout>
>   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
>   <TimeToEject>13.0609999999982</TimeToEject>
>   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.66322514125563</MinLaunchGuideLen>
>   <MaxVertVelocity>194.45579654605</MaxVertVelocity>
>   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
>   <MaxVertAcceleration>153.195759667245</MaxVertAcceleration>
>   <MaxHorzAcceleration>4.35031750316561</MaxHorzAcceleration>
>   <MaxRange>4.56540081175797e-005</MaxRange>
>   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
>   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
>   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
>   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
>   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
>   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
>   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
>   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
>   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
>   <SimulationName>[G40-10] </SimulationName>
>   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>15.8970146140174</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
>   <LaunchGuideLen>0.9144000905256</LaunchGuideLen>
>   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
>   <Comments></Comments>
>   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
>   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.132</TimeToFreeFlight>
>   <TimeToMaxVelocity>2.36999999999985</TimeToMaxVelocity>
>   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>4.e-002</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
>   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
>   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
>   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
>   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
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>   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
>   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
>   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
>   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
>   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
>   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
>   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
>   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
>   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
>   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
>   <CG0>0.</CG0>
>   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
>   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
>   <SimulationEvents>
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>   <Stage1Engines>
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>   <Stage2Engines>
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>   <Stage3Engines>
>    <EngineSet>
>     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
>     <EngineCode>G40</EngineCode>
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>     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
>     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
>     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
>     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
>     <EjectionDelay>10.</EjectionDelay>
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>   </Stage3Engines>
>  </SimulationResults>
>  <SimulationResults>
>   <MaxAltitude>1011.03482256201</MaxAltitude>
>   <MaxVelocity>243.89772855699</MaxVelocity>
>   <MaxAcceleration>252.561717111469</MaxAcceleration>
>   <TimeToApogee>12.1149999999987</TimeToApogee>
>   <OptimalDelay>10.6139999999988</OptimalDelay>
>   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
>
>
> <VelocityAtDeplyment>7.90594104554254,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
> Deplyment>
>
>
> <AltitudeAtDeployment>1011.03482256201,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
> tDeployment>
>   <DelayTime>10.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
>   <EjectTime>11.5009999999991,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
>   <FinalState>1</FinalState>
>   <TimeToBurnout>1.50099999999995</TimeToBurnout>
>   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
>   <TimeToEject>11.5009999999991</TimeToEject>
>   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.375318684858537</MinLaunchGuideLen>
>   <MaxVertVelocity>243.4141182766</MaxVertVelocity>
>   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
>   <MaxVertAcceleration>252.561717111469</MaxVertAcceleration>
>   <MaxHorzAcceleration>5.18716223403553</MaxHorzAcceleration>
>   <MaxRange>1.90454113269684e-005</MaxRange>
>   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
>   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
>   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
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>   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
>   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
>   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
>   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
>   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
>   <SimulationName>[G80-10] </SimulationName>
>   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>21.182910000511</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
>   <LaunchGuideLen>0.9144000905256</LaunchGuideLen>
>   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
>   <Comments></Comments>
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>   <TimeToFreeFlight>9.10000000000001e-002</TimeToFreeFlight>
>   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.35599999999996</TimeToMaxVelocity>
>   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>1.e-002</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
>   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
>   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
>   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
>   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
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>   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
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>   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
>   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
>   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
>   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
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>   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
>   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
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>   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
>   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
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>   <Stage2Engines>
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>   <Stage3Engines>
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>     <EngineCode>G80</EngineCode>
>     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
>     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
>     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
>     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
>     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
>     <EjectionDelay>10.</EjectionDelay>
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>   </Stage3Engines>
>  </SimulationResults>
>  <SimulationResults>
>   <MaxAltitude>1024.10584956972</MaxAltitude>
>   <MaxVelocity>275.740977491777</MaxVelocity>
>   <MaxAcceleration>356.126958726677</MaxAcceleration>
>   <TimeToApogee>12.0119999999988</TimeToApogee>
>   <OptimalDelay>11.0119999999988</OptimalDelay>
>   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
>
>
> <VelocityAtDeplyment>10.8961058959573,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
> Deplyment>
>
>
> <AltitudeAtDeployment>1024.10584956972,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
> tDeployment>
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>   <EjectTime>11.0009999999993,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
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>   <TimeToBurnout>1.</TimeToBurnout>
>   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
>   <TimeToEject>11.0009999999993</TimeToEject>
>   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.351331804325076</MinLaunchGuideLen>
>   <MaxVertVelocity>275.345570919472</MaxVertVelocity>
>   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
>   <MaxVertAcceleration>355.453371641611</MaxVertAcceleration>
>   <MaxHorzAcceleration>6.29795248129216</MaxHorzAcceleration>
>   <MaxRange>1.39384053111768e-005</MaxRange>
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>   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
>   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
>   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
>   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
>   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
>   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
>   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
>   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
>   <SimulationName>[G125-10] </SimulationName>
>   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>22.7581197938931</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
>   <LaunchGuideLen>0.9144000905256</LaunchGuideLen>
>   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
>   <Comments></Comments>
>   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
>   <TimeToFreeFlight>0.103</TimeToFreeFlight>
>   <TimeToMaxVelocity>0.991000000000001</TimeToMaxVelocity>
>   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.4</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
>   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
>   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
>   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
>   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
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>   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
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>   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
>   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
>   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
>   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
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>   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
>   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
>   <CG0>0.</CG0>
>   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
>   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
>   <SimulationEvents>
>   </SimulationEvents>
>   <Stage1Engines>
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>   <Stage2Engines>
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>   <Stage3Engines>
>    <EngineSet>
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>     <EngineCode>G125</EngineCode>
>     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
>     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
>     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
>     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
>     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
>     <EjectionDelay>10.</EjectionDelay>
>    </EngineSet>
>   </Stage3Engines>
>  </SimulationResults>
>  <SimulationResults>
>   <MaxAltitude>1393.35530737436</MaxAltitude>
>   <MaxVelocity>323.607540336408</MaxVelocity>
>   <MaxAcceleration>536.499340836308</MaxAcceleration>
>   <TimeToApogee>13.7739999999978</TimeToApogee>
>   <OptimalDelay>12.3729999999978</OptimalDelay>
>   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
>
>
> <VelocityAtDeplyment>16.2918405895321,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
> Deplyment>
>
>
> <AltitudeAtDeployment>1380.49355093261,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
> tDeployment>
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>   <EjectTime>15.4009999999969,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
>   <FinalState>2</FinalState>
>   <TimeToBurnout>1.40099999999996</TimeToBurnout>
>   <TimeToLanding>8.02989130625284e+283</TimeToLanding>
>   <TimeToEject>15.4009999999969</TimeToEject>
>   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.196834337251715</MinLaunchGuideLen>
>   <MaxVertVelocity>323.239799523318</MaxVertVelocity>
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>   <MaxVertAcceleration>536.499340836308</MaxVertAcceleration>
>   <MaxHorzAcceleration>6.60044107079662</MaxHorzAcceleration>
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>   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
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>   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
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>   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
>   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
>   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
>   <SimulationName>[H180W-14] </SimulationName>
>   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>28.9366898674467</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
>   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440009656064</LaunchGuideLen>
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>   <Comments></Comments>
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>   <TimeToFreeFlight>5.9e-002</TimeToFreeFlight>
>   <TimeToMaxVelocity>1.17099999999998</TimeToMaxVelocity>
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>   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
>   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
>   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
>   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
>   <ExecutionTime>0.</ExecutionTime>
>   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
>   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
>   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
>   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
>   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
>   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
>   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
>   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
>   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
>   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
>   <CG0>0.</CG0>
>   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
>   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
>   <SimulationEvents>
>   </SimulationEvents>
>   <Stage1Engines>
>   </Stage1Engines>
>   <Stage2Engines>
>   </Stage2Engines>
>   <Stage3Engines>
>    <EngineSet>
>     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
>     <EngineCode>H180W</EngineCode>
>     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
>     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
>     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
>     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
>     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
>     <EjectionDelay>14.</EjectionDelay>
>    </EngineSet>
>   </Stage3Engines>
>  </SimulationResults>
>  <SimulationResults>
>   <MaxAltitude>1325.22883247277</MaxAltitude>
>   <MaxVelocity>347.735022687323</MaxVelocity>
>   <MaxAcceleration>577.475904111945</MaxAcceleration>
>   <TimeToApogee>13.349999999998</TimeToApogee>
>   <OptimalDelay>12.389999999998</OptimalDelay>
>   <MultiDelayCount>1</MultiDelayCount>
>
>
> <VelocityAtDeplyment>15.9623733149263,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</VelocityAt
> Deplyment>
>
>
> <AltitudeAtDeployment>1312.63508085216,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</AltitudeA
> tDeployment>
>   <DelayTime>14.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</DelayTime>
>   <EjectTime>14.9609999999971,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.</EjectTime>
>   <FinalState>2</FinalState>
>   <TimeToBurnout>0.960000000000001</TimeToBurnout>
>   <TimeToLanding>0.</TimeToLanding>
>   <TimeToEject>14.9609999999971</TimeToEject>
>   <MinLaunchGuideLen>0.170248769319544</MinLaunchGuideLen>
>   <MaxVertVelocity>347.431625587646</MaxVertVelocity>
>   <MaxHorzVelocity>0.</MaxHorzVelocity>
>   <MaxVertAcceleration>577.475904111945</MaxVertAcceleration>
>   <MaxHorzAcceleration>8.89860541211941</MaxHorzAcceleration>
>   <MaxRange>3.10870619215658e-006</MaxRange>
>   <LaunchWindDirection>0</LaunchWindDirection>
>   <LaunchWindSpeed>2.24</LaunchWindSpeed>
>   <LaunchDirection>0</LaunchDirection>
>   <LaunchAngle>0.</LaunchAngle>
>   <LaunchBarometer>759.968</LaunchBarometer>
>   <LaunchLatitude>33.5</LaunchLatitude>
>   <LaunchHumidity>50.</LaunchHumidity>
>   <LaunchTemperature>25.</LaunchTemperature>
>   <LaunchAltitude>304.8</LaunchAltitude>
>   <SimulationName>[H220T-14] </SimulationName>
>   <VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>31.3148472465376</VelocityAtLaunchGuideEnd>
>   <LaunchGuideLen>0.91440010259568</LaunchGuideLen>
>   <WindStartAltitude>0.</WindStartAltitude>
>   <Comments></Comments>
>   <TimeToWindShear>0.</TimeToWindShear>
>   <TimeToFreeFlight>5.7e-002</TimeToFreeFlight>
>   <TimeToMaxVelocity>0.792000000000001</TimeToMaxVelocity>
>   <TimeToMaxAcceleration>0.</TimeToMaxAcceleration>
>   <SamplesPerSecond>1000</SamplesPerSecond>
>   <SimulationType>0</SimulationType>
>   <LocationDatabaseName>earth</LocationDatabaseName>
>   <LocationDatabaseDisplayName>earth</LocationDatabaseDisplayName>
>   <ExecutionTime>0.</ExecutionTime>
>   <RangeAtLanding>0.</RangeAtLanding>
>   <VelocityAtLanding>0.</VelocityAtLanding>
>   <XVelcoityAtLanding>0.</XVelcoityAtLanding>
>   <YVelocityAtLanding>0.</YVelocityAtLanding>
>   <StageEjectTime>0.,0.,0.</StageEjectTime>
>   <TimeToDeployment>0.,0.,0.</TimeToDeployment>
>   <DeploymentType>32,32,32</DeploymentType>
>   <SamplesPerSecondDescent>10</SamplesPerSecondDescent>
>   <CalculationFlags>1</CalculationFlags>
>   <Mass0>0.</Mass0>
>   <CG0>0.</CG0>
>   <LaterialMOI0>0.</LaterialMOI0>
>   <RadialMOI0>0.</RadialMOI0>
>   <SimulationEvents>
>   </SimulationEvents>
>   <Stage1Engines>
>   </Stage1Engines>
>   <Stage2Engines>
>   </Stage2Engines>
>   <Stage3Engines>
>    <EngineSet>
>     <EngineCount>1</EngineCount>
>     <EngineCode>H220T</EngineCode>
>     <IgnitionDelay>0.</IgnitionDelay>
>     <EngineMfg></EngineMfg>
>     <EngineOverhang>12.7</EngineOverhang>
>     <CasingCG>0.</CasingCG>
>     <MountSerialNo>-1</MountSerialNo>
>     <EjectionDelay>14.</EjectionDelay>
>    </EngineSet>
>   </Stage3Engines>
>  </SimulationResults>
>  </SimulationResultsList>
> </RockSimDocument>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>

From appusher at q.com  Thu Sep  3 17:20:17 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 00:20:17 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Motor Availability at XPRS
In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808122070@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <20090902212927.IKGF16492.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808122070@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W26B0D5AAE64023AAE829D7DCEE0@phx.gbl>


Email Jim.  I told him it didn't come thru and he sent it to me.  He will send it to you as well.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:50:14 -0700
> From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com
> To: jim at discountrocketry.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] High Power Motor Availability at XPRS
> 
> The .pdf did not come through as an attachment. Can it be found
> elsewhere?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Myres [mailto:jim at discountrocketry.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 2:29 PM
> To: Rockets North West
> Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Motor Availability at XPRS
> 
> Dear, Rockets North West!
> 
> Discount Rocketry will not be attending XPRS. However, we are shipping
> motors to anyone who wants to take advantage of our high power motor
> 30-50% off clearance sale.
> We should be able to get your order to you in plenty of time for XPRS if
> you get your order in this week.
> 
> Please see the attached PDF file with 50% off Warp-N and 30% off
> everything else including the L, M or N motors. Shipping will be free
> for any order over $500.
> We encourage you to pass the motor list around to any friends you may
> want to combine your orders with to meet the free HAMAT shipping mnimum.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim Myres
> Discount Rocketry
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From clappfamily at comcast.net  Thu Sep  3 17:30:31 2009
From: clappfamily at comcast.net (ClappFamily)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:30:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS***
Message-ID: <B36AEDD635B44C33A1005E39709038F2@D8M6PR71>

The latest and last issue of ER just arrived today.  Much of the issue was devoted to Fire in the Sky 2009!

A great 12 page article by Kent and 22 photos.  Including the Cover, Inside Cover, Table of Contents, Center Fold, Launch Calendar and Featured Project.

It's sad to see ER closing up shop but great to see FITS covered so nicely in the last issue.


Rick

From carl at mousetrap.com  Thu Sep  3 20:49:23 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 20:49:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 DVD
In-Reply-To: <7420DD5371C14E64BE8CFE1B42B714AF@BryanDesktop>
References: <7420DD5371C14E64BE8CFE1B42B714AF@BryanDesktop>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909032049l49f35ea9q141778b14c8bafc7@mail.gmail.com>

I couldn't agree more with Bryan's comments. This is a fun DVD with lots of
flights from a great weekend. It also contains interviews from some of your
favorite Northwest fliers: Ray Stoner, Bob Yanecek, Brad Wright, Michael
Dennis, Dave Randall, Mike Bennight, Angela (Red) Innes, Andy Barwick, Mark
Lyons, Andrew MacMillen, Bryan Whitemarsh, Carl Degner, Thad Retzlaff, Bret
Simpkins, Brent and Bobby Rowe, Steve Bloom, Allyne Armitage, and a special
interview with Denny Smith.

It's worth noting that Kent has donated all of the time he spent filming,
editing, and producing the DVD. All proceeds go to the Washington Aerospace
Club, allowing us to continue improving our GSE and safety equipment to
provide even better launches in the future. If you have been thinking about
getting a copy, now is the time because Kent has them ready to go. All you
need to do is visit the WAC web site (http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/),
click the PayPal button, and a DVD will arrive in your mailbox in a few
short days.

Thanks.

 - Carl

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Bryan Whitemarsh
<bwhitemarsh at comcast.net>wrote:

> Hello All:
>
> Just got my copy of the FITS 2009 DVD.  Some great footage on a pretty
> polished DVD production.  Good to see some of the launches from a very busy
> weekend.  Great video of U4EA, including onboard.  A couple of nice
> Kate-equipped flights from Vern, including onboard video as well.  Really
> well done Kent!  Well worth the 25 bucks.  If anyone hasn't gotten a copy
> yet, it's definitely worth the price and helps support Washington Aerospace
> Club.  Looking forward to October!
>
> Bryan Whitemarsh
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Thu Sep  3 21:37:33 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:37:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS***
In-Reply-To: <B36AEDD635B44C33A1005E39709038F2@D8M6PR71>
References: <B36AEDD635B44C33A1005E39709038F2@D8M6PR71>
Message-ID: <4AA0998D.9080508@hawkfeather.com>

Shite! Their website is already down. Anybody know of a retailer that 
has copies?

Andrew.

ClappFamily wrote:
 > The latest and last issue of ER just arrived today.  Much of the 
issue was devoted to Fire in the Sky 2009!
 >
 > A great 12 page article by Kent and 22 photos.  Including the Cover, 
Inside Cover, Table of Contents, Center Fold, Launch Calendar and 
Featured Project.
 >
 > It's sad to see ER closing up shop but great to see FITS covered so 
nicely in the last issue.
 >
 >
 > Rick
 > _______________________________________________
 > Rockets mailing list
 > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 >
 >

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 21:52:12 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:52:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS***
References: <B36AEDD635B44C33A1005E39709038F2@D8M6PR71>
	<4AA0998D.9080508@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <0A796DC8C646455AB04532477C446651@LaptopKrausert>

Andrew,
Once I read my copy... I'd be happy to mail it to you. I've never been to to 
FITS. No disrespect to WAC. The contrary. Just that you might like to have a 
copy to keep for memories. You're welcome to it when I'm done.

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew MacMillen" <andrewm at hawkfeather.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS***


> Shite! Their website is already down. Anybody know of a retailer that has 
> copies?
>
> Andrew.
>
> ClappFamily wrote:
> > The latest and last issue of ER just arrived today.  Much of the
> issue was devoted to Fire in the Sky 2009!
> >
> > A great 12 page article by Kent and 22 photos.  Including the Cover,
> Inside Cover, Table of Contents, Center Fold, Launch Calendar and Featured 
> Project.
> >
> > It's sad to see ER closing up shop but great to see FITS covered so
> nicely in the last issue.
> >
> >
> > Rick
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From willey at selby.com  Thu Sep  3 21:46:42 2009
From: willey at selby.com (Steve Mats Mats)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:46:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hybrid GSE and mentorship at Sept Mansfield launch?
Message-ID: <6cb1ffd20909032146g5c8d8323ld8a2402bb9d89e8a@mail.gmail.com>

My friend, Michael, is building a minimum diameter 29mm rocket (a Hawk
Mountain Raptor) for the September Mansfield launch.  Being the kind of
friend I am (clinical term: an enabler), I've gotten him a RATT I80 to make
the skinny rocket go high.  We both know what we're doing with rockets
(well, kinda, you know ...) but not these gassy motors.  Now we're looking
for a friend willing to help us get the I80 launched; basically a bit of
mentoring time, the GSE and sell us some NO2.

I realize many folks will be headed down for XPRS instead of Mansfield that
weekend, but if you do hybrids and can help us hybrid newbies there will be
cold beverages coming your way.

thanks,
steve

From clappfamily at comcast.net  Fri Sep  4 07:19:47 2009
From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:19:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS***
In-Reply-To: <4AA0998D.9080508@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <1531560758.8126681252073987570.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



I know that Tammies in Portland carries them.? I don't know if they have received copies yet.? I had 1st Class mailing. 



http://tammieshobbies.com/ 



They don't have the magazines on the website but I'm sure you could call them and have them shipped. 





Rick 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew MacMillen" <andrewm at hawkfeather.com> 
To: "rockets at rocketsnw.com >> NorthWest Rocketry" <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 9:37:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS*** 

Shite! Their website is already down. Anybody know of a retailer that 
has copies? 

Andrew. 

ClappFamily wrote: 
?> The latest and last issue of ER just arrived today. ?Much of the 
issue was devoted to Fire in the Sky 2009! 
?> 
?> A great 12 page article by Kent and 22 photos. ?Including the Cover, 
Inside Cover, Table of Contents, Center Fold, Launch Calendar and 
Featured Project. 
?> 
?> It's sad to see ER closing up shop but great to see FITS covered so 
nicely in the last issue. 
?> 
?> 
?> Rick 
?> _______________________________________________ 
?> Rockets mailing list 
?> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
?> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
?> 
?> 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
?? 

From carl20320 at msn.com  Fri Sep  4 08:32:27 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:32:27 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS***
In-Reply-To: <B36AEDD635B44C33A1005E39709038F2@D8M6PR71>
References: <B36AEDD635B44C33A1005E39709038F2@D8M6PR71>
Message-ID: <COL120-W95097A0ABC89614F3DAAEEAEE0@phx.gbl>


>From what I hear, I have GOT to get a copy of this!  Sounds like the Alpha 7 made the cover. :-D

 
> From: clappfamily at comcast.net
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:30:31 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS***
> 
> The latest and last issue of ER just arrived today. Much of the issue was devoted to Fire in the Sky 2009!
> 
> A great 12 page article by Kent and 22 photos. Including the Cover, Inside Cover, Table of Contents, Center Fold, Launch Calendar and Featured Project.
> 
> It's sad to see ER closing up shop but great to see FITS covered so nicely in the last issue.
> 
> 
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Fri Sep  4 08:36:31 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 15:36:31 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS***
In-Reply-To: <B36AEDD635B44C33A1005E39709038F2@D8M6PR71>
References: <B36AEDD635B44C33A1005E39709038F2@D8M6PR71>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20991357ED98@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Didn't know they were closing down.  I'm assuming that any money we paid for subs is "sunk cost" to us???

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of ClappFamily
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:31 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Issue 84 - Last Issue ***FITS***

The latest and last issue of ER just arrived today.  Much of the issue was devoted to Fire in the Sky 2009!

A great 12 page article by Kent and 22 photos.  Including the Cover, Inside Cover, Table of Contents, Center Fold, Launch Calendar and Featured Project.

It's sad to see ER closing up shop but great to see FITS covered so nicely in the last issue.


Rick
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From sb at berfield.com  Fri Sep  4 14:08:20 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 21:08:20 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] using Cu Thermite
Message-ID: <W9827325803159991252098500@webmail20>

Looks like we will go with a thermite igniter for the central N on the big rocket at XPRS. I have teh chemistry and ignition down, and have read a bunch about how to size teh charge, etc... but one thing that came up in my experimentation is that there must be a neater more controllable way ot putting the thing together than what I was doing. the mixture wants to clump up if it sits for even a second, and getting it formed up into a reasonable sape using saran wrap or tissue paper appears to require the skill sof a sushi chef or cigar maker. I finally got a reasonable result using a straw (from Starbucks) and a funnel to fill the straw's wrapper. 

Anyone with experience in this area want to walk me through how you prep yours? 



From scott at scottsrockets.com  Fri Sep  4 14:20:50 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:20:50 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] using Cu Thermite
In-Reply-To: <W9827325803159991252098500@webmail20>
References: <W9827325803159991252098500@webmail20>
Message-ID: <B832538156194D3E9AE39500B8EA2DD4@Mobile2>

Form it along a thin dowel you can also use to insert the charge in the
motor. Then dip the whole thing in paraffin a couple of times for a nice
sturdy wrap. You can wrap the saran around a little tube first, then slide
the tube out and fold the end down to get the powder into the saran wrap. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:08 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] using Cu Thermite

Looks like we will go with a thermite igniter for the central N on the big
rocket at XPRS. I have teh chemistry and ignition down, and have read a
bunch about how to size teh charge, etc... but one thing that came up in my
experimentation is that there must be a neater more controllable way ot
putting the thing together than what I was doing. the mixture wants to clump
up if it sits for even a second, and getting it formed up into a reasonable
sape using saran wrap or tissue paper appears to require the skill sof a
sushi chef or cigar maker. I finally got a reasonable result using a straw
(from Starbucks) and a funnel to fill the straw's wrapper. 

Anyone with experience in this area want to walk me through how you prep
yours? 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From carl at mousetrap.com  Fri Sep  4 15:55:55 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 15:55:55 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace September meeting
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909041555g5c1fc261w43b04a2d458140e6@mail.gmail.com>

This is just a quick reminder that the Washington Aerospace September
meeting has been rescheduled from the 5th the 12th.
In addition to the change of date, there has also been a change of venue.
Chris Holden has graciously offered to host the meeting at his hobby shop in
Auburn, Holden's Hobbies (http://www.holdenshobbies.com/). Chris will be
providing hot dogs and drinks for attendees and will be talking about his
shop and some of the items he sells, most notably Blue Tube. The shop is
located in the Auburn Red Barn at:

5015 Auburn Way N
Auburn, WA 98002

We will also be talking about the upcoming WAC September launch, scheduled
for the 19th and 20th. If you are working on a project for the launch, or
any other launch, please bring it to the meeting for show and tell. If you
just have questions, please come and ask them!

I will have copies of the NAR level 2 written exam, so if you are interested
in taking it, please let me know. The study guide is available at
http://www.nar.org/pdf/HP-question-pool.pdf.

Hope to see you on the 12th.

 - Carl

From sb at berfield.com  Fri Sep  4 16:39:58 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 23:39:58 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] using Cu Thermite
Message-ID: <W74819949267521252107598@webmail49>

The paraffin idea is interesting, thanks. How long vs fat a roll do you usually prepare? -----Original Message-----
From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 02:20 PM
To: ''Scott Berfield'', rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] using Cu Thermite

Form it along a thin dowel you can also use to insert the charge in themotor. Then dip the whole thing in paraffin a couple of times for a nicesturdy wrap. You can wrap the saran around a little tube first, then slidethe tube out and fold the end down to get the powder into the saran wrap. Scott T. Bowerswww.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message-----From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On Behalf Of Scott BerfieldSent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:08 PMTo: rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] using Cu ThermiteLooks like we will go with a thermite igniter for the central N on the bigrocket at XPRS. I have teh chemistry and ignition down, and have read abunch about how to size teh charge, etc... but one thing that came up in myexperimentation is that there must be a neater more controllable way otputting the thing together than what I was doing. the mixture wants to clumpup if it sits for even a second, and getting it formed up into a reasonablesape using saran wrap or tissue paper appears to require the skill sof asushi chef or cigar maker. I finally got a reasonable result using a straw(from Starbucks) and a funnel to fill the straw's wrapper. Anyone with experience in this area want to walk me through how you prepyours? _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 19:01:59 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:01:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OK Teams within OROC; The Race Is ON!!!
Message-ID: <F536051038C749FD95CC026916FFD340@LaptopKrausert>


Are you part of a sub-team of OregonRocketry? If so, you might want to read this;

OK, you likely don't refer to your team as a sub-team, but we might. I know of three; Team Numb (led by Jeff?), Team Hard Tail (led by Fred), and Team Wilsonville (led by Keith). If  there are more, it's your time too.

Teams, I'm promising not to impact your BALLS plans. But hope you get the ideas flowing there in the relaxed evenings. "A logo? What's this Krausert dude up too? We are team xyz and he knows that..." 

You are invited to participate in a Logo and T-Shirt contest. All teams need to develop their own logo and t-shirt design. The results need to be submitted to the OregonRocketry mailing list by November 1st, 2009 @ members at oregonrocketry.org. Because of file size limits, post the designs to the NW images site and send us a link to review. The contestants will be added to the 2010 voting ballet for members. Winners will be given braging rights. But also, some of us might want custom t-shirts in support of your team. Other than braging rights, there are no winners or losers. Just that next year, who's walking around in a custom t-shirt with your teams design? This is all for fun. You do not need to create t-shirts. Just offer us the ability to use your design to have one custom made for ourselves. 

So have you ever considered a logo, design or etc for your team? Between now and November 1st 2009 is a great time.

Let's have some fun. And a little team by team competition. We are all OROC... At the end of the event, we'll still be that. I'd be honored to purchase a shirt of Numb, Hard Tail, and Wilsonville design, and any other teams. Others might too.

Cheers,
Robert


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 19:11:20 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:11:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Top 10 Reasons Your Current OROC President is a Dork
Message-ID: <1745510469B64E849BAFC33995E4C32E@LaptopKrausert>

Yes, boys and girls. It's time to continue having fun as we move into the time of year when the sun is setting sooner each day. 

Would like you to submit your top 10 reasons your current OregonRocketry president is dork. I'm not offended, this is all for fun. 

Develop and send your top 10 reasons why the crrent OROC president is a dork. If you can't think of 10, send what you have. If you have WAY  more then 10, send those too. I know some many have pages. ;-)

I'll compile and share at the next club meeting and ask for votes to the best. The winner will be offered a visit on David Letterman. Wait!! Sorry... No, not that. But we'll recognize you as the one with the best top 10 list. And will be included in our minutes. 

Is it my spelling? Is it my grammer? Is it my shreaded rocket? You decide. Have fun and get creative. No offense, promise. We're all friends at the end. I hope. :)

Cheers,
Robert

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sat Sep  5 00:18:51 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 00:18:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] OK Teams within OROC;
	The Race Is ON!!!
In-Reply-To: <FD2617CBFE3E4E498E5CA6EE572D0C5B@LaptopKrausert>
References: <FD2617CBFE3E4E498E5CA6EE572D0C5B@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <45386686a835da6e97abf03f70b44bde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Hmmm.  No.

It's just I, me, and myself.  But, some narcissistic types might call that
a team.  And while there's no "I" in "team" there is an "m" and an "e." 
And all I ever fly beyond Estes is AT because, well, that's all I have
hardware for.  And "me" is the head of the team because "I" always was the
lazy one.  So I guess that makes it team "me-AT-head."

Hmmm again.  Maybe better just forget it!  :)

Next OROC contest: Top 10 reasons Ken McGoffin is totally nuts!
+McG+


> Are you part of a sub-team of OregonRocketry? If so, you might want to
> read this;
>
> OK, you likely don't refer to your team as a sub-team, but we might. I
> know of three; Team Numb (led by Jeff?), Team Hard Tail (led by Fred), and
> Team Wilsonville (led by Keith). If  there are more, it's your time too.
>
> Teams, I'm promising not to impact your BALLS plans. But hope you get the
> ideas flowing there in the relaxed evenings. "A logo? What's this Krausert
> dude up too? We are team xyz and he knows that..."
>
> You are invited to participate in a Logo and T-Shirt contest. All teams
> need to develop their own logo and t-shirt design. The results need to be
> submitted to the OregonRocketry mailing list by November 1st, 2009 @
> members at oregonrocketry.org. Because of file size limits, post the designs
> to the NW images site and send us a link to review. The contestants will
> be added to the 2010 voting ballet for members. Winners will be given
> braging rights. But also, some of us might want custom t-shirts in support
> of your team. Other than braging rights, there are no winners or losers.
> Just that next year, who's walking around in a custom t-shirt with your
> teams design? This is all for fun. You do not need to create t-shirts.
> Just offer us the ability to use your design to have one custom made for
> ourselves.
>
> So have you ever considered a logo, design or etc for your team? Between
> now and November 1st 2009 is a great time.
>
> Let's have some fun. And a little team by team competition. We are all
> OROC... At the end of the event, we'll still be that. I'd be honored to
> purchase a shirt of Numb, Hard Tail, and Wilsonville design, and any other
> teams. Others might too.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> Members at oregonrocketry.org
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members
>



From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net  Sat Sep  5 09:59:25 2009
From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 09:59:25 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Overstable?
Message-ID: <54283C18A9F241D7963950258EB1C584@Desktop>

I've rebuilt a old pml kit. With rocksim the stability ratio is at 4.77. At what point is being over stable a problem? I've shortened what I  can and I'd hate to add more weight..................................Mark

From glech at aol.com  Sat Sep  5 10:14:21 2009
From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 13:14:21 -0400
Subject: [RocketsNW] Overstable?
In-Reply-To: <54283C18A9F241D7963950258EB1C584@Desktop>
References: <54283C18A9F241D7963950258EB1C584@Desktop>
Message-ID: <8CBFC637181522D-190C-8433@webmail-d013.sysops.aol.com>


Good question and one that Tim Van Milligan (Apogee/Rocksim) has answered in one of his ezines:



http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter05.pdf



The article is pretty old so take it for what it's worth.



Cheers from ~
Gary Lech - WA7GL TRA

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Dunkle <Dunkman2000 at comcast.net>
To: rockets NW list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:59 am
Subject: [RocketsNW] Overstable?




I've rebuilt a old pml kit. With rocksim the stability ratio is at 4.77. At what 
point is being over stable a problem? I've shortened what I  can and I'd hate to 
add more weight..................................Mark
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 10:42:34 2009
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 10:42:34 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Overstable?
References: <54283C18A9F241D7963950258EB1C584@Desktop>
Message-ID: <48C1317C55A7438290BF0D5865C624AC@TNTCENTER>

At 4.77 I wouldn't worry.  I have a 54mm minimum diamater project that has a 
loaded ratio of 9 to 10 and unloaded 16 to 17.  It's over 7 foot tall 
(designed for hybrids or really long solids :-)  YMMV  :-)

Jeff Moore
BORG

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Dunkle" <Dunkman2000 at comcast.net>


I've rebuilt a old pml kit. With rocksim the stability ratio is at 4.77. At 
what point is being over stable a problem? I've shortened what I  can and 
I'd hate to add more weight..................................Mark


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 13:21:02 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 13:21:02 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] OK Teams within OROC;
	The Race Is ON!!!
References: <FD2617CBFE3E4E498E5CA6EE572D0C5B@LaptopKrausert>
	<45386686a835da6e97abf03f70b44bde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <837D1A254D2A475095D4EBE5B9A1C4BF@LaptopKrausert>

Ken,

The three of "you" are certainly welcome to participate. "You" all certainly 
qualify as a team. Submit your team's logo design before November 1st. Team 
"me-AT-head."

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
To: "Robert Krausert" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [OROC Members] OK Teams within OROC; The Race Is ON!!!


> Hmmm.  No.
>
> It's just I, me, and myself.  But, some narcissistic types might call that
> a team.  And while there's no "I" in "team" there is an "m" and an "e."
> And all I ever fly beyond Estes is AT because, well, that's all I have
> hardware for.  And "me" is the head of the team because "I" always was the
> lazy one.  So I guess that makes it team "me-AT-head."
>
> Hmmm again.  Maybe better just forget it!  :)
>
> Next OROC contest: Top 10 reasons Ken McGoffin is totally nuts!
> +McG+
>
>
>> Are you part of a sub-team of OregonRocketry? If so, you might want to
>> read this;
>>
>> OK, you likely don't refer to your team as a sub-team, but we might. I
>> know of three; Team Numb (led by Jeff?), Team Hard Tail (led by Fred), 
>> and
>> Team Wilsonville (led by Keith). If  there are more, it's your time too.
>>
>> Teams, I'm promising not to impact your BALLS plans. But hope you get the
>> ideas flowing there in the relaxed evenings. "A logo? What's this 
>> Krausert
>> dude up too? We are team xyz and he knows that..."
>>
>> You are invited to participate in a Logo and T-Shirt contest. All teams
>> need to develop their own logo and t-shirt design. The results need to be
>> submitted to the OregonRocketry mailing list by November 1st, 2009 @
>> members at oregonrocketry.org. Because of file size limits, post the designs
>> to the NW images site and send us a link to review. The contestants will
>> be added to the 2010 voting ballet for members. Winners will be given
>> braging rights. But also, some of us might want custom t-shirts in 
>> support
>> of your team. Other than braging rights, there are no winners or losers.
>> Just that next year, who's walking around in a custom t-shirt with your
>> teams design? This is all for fun. You do not need to create t-shirts.
>> Just offer us the ability to use your design to have one custom made for
>> ourselves.
>>
>> So have you ever considered a logo, design or etc for your team? Between
>> now and November 1st 2009 is a great time.
>>
>> Let's have some fun. And a little team by team competition. We are all
>> OROC... At the end of the event, we'll still be that. I'd be honored to
>> purchase a shirt of Numb, Hard Tail, and Wilsonville design, and any 
>> other
>> teams. Others might too.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Members mailing list
>> Members at oregonrocketry.org
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members
>>
>
> 


From jjcllc03 at aol.com  Sat Sep  5 23:37:27 2009
From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 02:37:27 -0400
Subject: [RocketsNW] "It's alive! Alive!" <spoken just like a mad scientist,
	of course>
Message-ID: <8CBFCD3A2C1E897-23A8-112E5@webmail-m004.sysops.aol.com>


Well, just an update on my Nike Smoke that sat on the pad during Desert Heat and burned.? She's back in action!? Thanks to Mike Fisher, the 5.5 Nike Smoke's fin can was salvaged and refurbished.? Mike also did some hot rod modifications on the old girl, too.? Gone is the charred 3 inch phenolic motor tube and in its place is a 4 inch fiberglass motor mount, so she's ready for ludicrous speed at a moment's notice.? She's being painted now and should fly in October if?weather permitting.? 



I just wanted to thank Mike for his great work fixing the Smoke.? Thanks, Mike! :)



Jack

From winningstad at comcast.net  Sun Sep  6 00:09:01 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 00:09:01 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Overstable?
In-Reply-To: <54283C18A9F241D7963950258EB1C584@Desktop>
References: <54283C18A9F241D7963950258EB1C584@Desktop>
Message-ID: <00b001ca2ec0$ebfc27d0$c3f47770$@net>

Over stable is a problem when it is windy...it WILL weather cock!

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Mark Dunkle
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:59 AM
To: rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] Overstable?

I've rebuilt a old pml kit. With rocksim the stability ratio is at 4.77. At
what point is being over stable a problem? I've shortened what I  can and
I'd hate to add more weight..................................Mark
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sun Sep  6 01:41:22 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 01:41:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] OK Teams within OROC;
	The Race Is ON!!!
In-Reply-To: <837D1A254D2A475095D4EBE5B9A1C4BF@LaptopKrausert>
References: <FD2617CBFE3E4E498E5CA6EE572D0C5B@LaptopKrausert>
	<45386686a835da6e97abf03f70b44bde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<837D1A254D2A475095D4EBE5B9A1C4BF@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <fb6047c726ab2a86522eb5c678b9d3bc.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Ain't no logo.  "I" was in charge of that and remember, "I" am the lazy
one...  ;-)
+McG+


> Ken,
>
> The three of "you" are certainly welcome to participate. "You" all
> certainly
> qualify as a team. Submit your team's logo design before November 1st.
> Team
> "me-AT-head."
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> To: "Robert Krausert" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 12:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [OROC Members] OK Teams within OROC; The Race Is ON!!!
>
>
>> Hmmm.  No.
>>
>> It's just I, me, and myself.  But, some narcissistic types might call
>> that
>> a team.  And while there's no "I" in "team" there is an "m" and an "e."
>> And all I ever fly beyond Estes is AT because, well, that's all I have
>> hardware for.  And "me" is the head of the team because "I" always was
>> the
>> lazy one.  So I guess that makes it team "me-AT-head."
>>
>> Hmmm again.  Maybe better just forget it!  :)
>>
>> Next OROC contest: Top 10 reasons Ken McGoffin is totally nuts!
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>>> Are you part of a sub-team of OregonRocketry? If so, you might want to
>>> read this;
>>>
>>> OK, you likely don't refer to your team as a sub-team, but we might. I
>>> know of three; Team Numb (led by Jeff?), Team Hard Tail (led by Fred),
>>> and
>>> Team Wilsonville (led by Keith). If  there are more, it's your time
>>> too.
>>>
>>> Teams, I'm promising not to impact your BALLS plans. But hope you get
>>> the
>>> ideas flowing there in the relaxed evenings. "A logo? What's this
>>> Krausert
>>> dude up too? We are team xyz and he knows that..."
>>>
>>> You are invited to participate in a Logo and T-Shirt contest. All teams
>>> need to develop their own logo and t-shirt design. The results need to
>>> be
>>> submitted to the OregonRocketry mailing list by November 1st, 2009 @
>>> members at oregonrocketry.org. Because of file size limits, post the
>>> designs
>>> to the NW images site and send us a link to review. The contestants
>>> will
>>> be added to the 2010 voting ballet for members. Winners will be given
>>> braging rights. But also, some of us might want custom t-shirts in
>>> support
>>> of your team. Other than braging rights, there are no winners or
>>> losers.
>>> Just that next year, who's walking around in a custom t-shirt with your
>>> teams design? This is all for fun. You do not need to create t-shirts.
>>> Just offer us the ability to use your design to have one custom made
>>> for
>>> ourselves.
>>>
>>> So have you ever considered a logo, design or etc for your team?
>>> Between
>>> now and November 1st 2009 is a great time.
>>>
>>> Let's have some fun. And a little team by team competition. We are all
>>> OROC... At the end of the event, we'll still be that. I'd be honored to
>>> purchase a shirt of Numb, Hard Tail, and Wilsonville design, and any
>>> other
>>> teams. Others might too.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Members mailing list
>>> Members at oregonrocketry.org
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members
>>>
>>
>>
>
>



From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Sun Sep  6 10:10:21 2009
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 10:10:21 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Help......... need picture.......
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP658F8D569F68262CFEB17FF4EC0@phx.gbl>

of the old T-shirt we were selling with the "rocket recovery" tools.......
Streamer, parachute, shovel.......

Can you please send me a picture or a scan to rocketstore at earthlink.net

Thanks,
Bob
Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

From jjcllc03 at aol.com  Sun Sep  6 11:41:14 2009
From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:41:14 -0400
Subject: [RocketsNW] Overstable?
In-Reply-To: <54283C18A9F241D7963950258EB1C584@Desktop>
References: <54283C18A9F241D7963950258EB1C584@Desktop>
Message-ID: <8CBFD38BF2E8C8B-40FC-1483@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com>


I agree with the others, Mark.? 4.77 isn't that bad.? Galadriel, my ring fin rocket, has a ratio of 9 or so, yet being over stable hasn't been a problem with the rocket...it tends to have close recoveries in the field.? If I flew it in heavy wind gusts, that's where you may see a problem, but again, it's ratio is far higher than yours, so I wouldn't worry about it.



Jack Caynon


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Dunkle <Dunkman2000 at comcast.net>
To: rockets NW list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:59 am
Subject: [RocketsNW] Overstable?




I've rebuilt a old pml kit. With rocksim the stability ratio is at 4.77. At what 
point is being over stable a problem? I've shortened what I  can and I'd hate to 
add more weight..................................Mark
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep  6 11:40:24 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 14:40:24 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] "It's alive! Alive!" <spoken just like a mad
	scientist, of co...
Message-ID: <d56.35891ff2.37d55c18@aol.com>

Thanks Jack.  Can't wait to see it fly again.  
 
Needless to say, when heat burns off the resin but leaves the CF cloth, it  
makes for an "interesting" repair.  My first assumption of just re-wetting  
the cloth and doing an overlay didn't work.  The Aeropoxy resin wouldn't  
soak into the burnt fibers.  Large sections of blisters had to be cut out  
and new cloth and carbon chop applied.
 
Should go real good on a 98mm, might have to add some nose weight  though.  
A long burn 98mm would be really cool.  The Nike Smoke is  such a nice 
looking rocket I might make one for me. :)  That 5.5" diameter  is real nice.  
Not too big, but not too small either.
 
Mike F.
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/5/2009 11:43:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jjcllc03 at aol.com writes:

Well,  just an update on my Nike Smoke that sat on the pad during Desert 
Heat and  burned.? She's back in action!? Thanks to Mike Fisher, the 5.5 Nike 
Smoke's  fin can was salvaged and refurbished.? Mike also did some hot rod  
modifications on the old girl, too.? Gone is the charred 3 inch phenolic 
motor  tube and in its place is a 4 inch fiberglass motor mount, so she's ready 
for  ludicrous speed at a moment's notice.? She's being painted now and 
should fly  in October if?weather permitting.? 



I just wanted to thank Mike  for his great work fixing the Smoke.? Thanks, 
Mike!  :)



Jack



From jjcllc03 at aol.com  Sun Sep  6 11:50:37 2009
From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:50:37 -0400
Subject: [RocketsNW] "It's alive! Alive!" <spoken just like a mad
 scientist, of co...
In-Reply-To: <d56.35891ff2.37d55c18@aol.com>
References: <d56.35891ff2.37d55c18@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CBFD3A0EA44C45-40FC-1549@webmail-d012.sysops.aol.com>


I'll have to modify my Rocksim file to take into account the new motor mount and any additional weight in the new fin can.? Then I can check out the stability and recalculate the nose weight, although it may be fine since I originally put significant weight in the nose cone for big 3 inch motors.



CTI has an M520 moonburner with a 13 second burn that should go real well with the Nike.



It'll be ready to fly in October and I'll have a four inch motor for the flight.



Jack


-----Original Message-----
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
To: Jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 11:40 am
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] "It's alive! Alive!" <spoken just like a mad scientist, of co...




Thanks Jack.? Can't wait to see it fly again.? 

?

Needless to say, when heat burns off the resin but leaves the CF cloth, it makes for an "interesting" repair.? My first assumption of just re-wetting the cloth and doing an overlay didn't work.? The Aeropoxy resin wouldn't soak into the burnt fibers.? Large sections of blisters had to be cut out and new cloth and carbon chop applied.

?

Should go real good on a 98mm, might have to add some nose weight though.? A long burn 98mm would be really cool.? The Nike Smoke is such a nice looking rocket I might make one for me. :)? That 5.5" diameter is real nice.? Not too big, but not too small either.

?

Mike F.

?

?

?


In a message dated 9/5/2009 11:43:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jjcllc03 at aol.com writes:

Well, just an update on my Nike Smoke that sat on the pad during Desert Heat and burned.? She's back in action!? Thanks to Mike Fisher, the 5.5 Nike Smoke's fin can was salvaged and refurbished.? Mike also did some hot rod modifications on the old girl, too.? Gone is the charred 3 inch phenolic motor tube and in its place is a 4 inch fiberglass motor mount, so she's ready for ludicrous speed at a moment's notice.? She's being painted now and should fly in October if?weather permitting.? 



I just wanted to thank Mike for his great work fixing the Smoke.? Thanks, Mike! :)



Jack




From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 13:33:00 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:33:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] We Are Go!!! OROC Sheridan Rocket Launch Sept 12th/13th
	Announcement
Message-ID: <8828E398E58B4BEF85AC8EED1B76C4FA@LaptopKrausert>

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, Kids and Kids-at-heart, Martians and Space Aliens - We Are Go!!! 

Friday 84H / 57L - 0% precip, clear
Saturday 80H / 53L - 10% precip, mostly sunny
Sunday 78H / 54L - 0% precip, partly cloudy

Read the details below. We'll see you at the launch September 12th and 13th 2009. Members-only are welcome to fly Friday September 11th once the range is setup.

Remember; Adventures in model, sport and amateur rocketry begins here with OregonRocketry (OROC). 
Cheers,
Robert
OROC President

Attention, 
  OregonRocketry on September 12th and 13th 2009 will be hosting the Fillible's Folly rocket launch event in Sheridan Oregon. This is one of OregonRocketry's largest and most popular launches of the year. This launch is close to the Portland area and the field is great for flying rockets. This launch is for commercial motors only, no research motors. Saturday's launch time is 8:00am to 10:00pm. Sunday's launch time is 8:00am to 3:00pm. We certainly hope you can join us for a great weekend of flying rockets and much much more. 

  Have you ever been to a Sheridan launch? Join us again. Bring your friends, family, and neighbors to the event and show them first hand how much fun model, sport and high power rocketry is for everyone. If you've never been to a Sheridan launch, join us for a weekend of great fun. 

  Launch fee for non-members are $10.00 per day or $15.00 for the weekend, that fee covers your entire family. There is no charge for spectators.

  Please review and understand the OregonRocketry range policies at:
  http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc-launch.htm 

  OregonRocketry's launch schedule is located at:
  http://www.oregonrocketry.com/cal/cal-launch.htm 

  Directions to the launch site at Sheridan are located at:
  http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-sher.htm 

  We are just one week from the event and reminding everyone of the event. Ground support transportation has been arranged, thank you Joe Bevier for hauling the trailer for this event. Similar to other launch events we look for OROC members to participate in various responsibilities to ensure we all can enjoy the weekend of rocketry. 

  Setup: 
  The OROC trailer will be arriving on Thursday afternoon. Anyone planning to be there on Friday morning, we are hoping you can help with setup. If are planning to arrive on Friday and are willing to help with the setup of the ground support equipment; please email me off list. 

  Teardown:
  On Sunday beginning at 3:00pm, we are going to need some people to help teardown the equipment and pack the trailer. If you plan to be there Sunday afternoon and willing to offer assistance with teardown, please email me off list. 

  LCO (Launch Control Officer):
  We will be asking for members to help with covering the LCO duties. We'll have a sign-up form at the LCO table for contributing to this task. Assignments can be as short as one hour. We certainly do not want to prevent you from flying and having a great time. We all want that. Your assistance will help so that everyone has the opporuntity to fly and have fun. LCO appointments only require a TRA (Tripoli) or NAR (National Association of Rocketry) membership holding a L1 certification or higher. Never been an LCO? It only takes a few minutes for training and rules. 

  RSO (Range Safety Officer):
  We will be asking the members to help with covering the RSO duties. This year we're going to locate the RSO table across the spectator area from the flight line. This will permit the LCO to only be required to focus on the range activities. Because of the number of flights we're expecting at the Sheridan launch event, we are asking we keep an RSO active at all times. RSO coverage requires you to be an active member of NAR or TRA and be a L2 certified flyer or higher. Instruction to become an RSO will take only a short period of instruction and is required. Several things to look for when evaluating rockets. Same as the LCO duties, a sign-up sheet will be available beginning Saturday morning at the Registration table. 

  Launch meetings:
  At 9:30 the OROC BoD will be hosting a brief flyers meeting. This meeting will discuss the rules and guidelines of this particular launch, land owner requirements, OROC rules / safety, and other business. Waiver opens at 8:00am, so flying begins at 8:00am. You do not need to wait until after the flyers meeting to fly rockets. Flights can begin as soon as the waiver is officially open. 

  Wristbands:
  Everyone present, flyers and spectators a like, are required to be wearing a wristband. They can be picked up at the Registration table located next to the RSO table. When you recieve your wristband you'll entered into a drawing. Throughout the day, we'll be drawing numbers. Each wristband has a number and you might just win a prize. So get your wristbands for your family and good luck. At Brothers in June the Grand Prize was a Binder Design Thug and 29mm motor case and a G64 reload. Not bad. So come on out and you might just win some cool stuff. Flyers and spectators can win. Must be present to win. Folks under 18 years of age wining motors must be accompanied by an adult to claim the prize. 

  Spectator area:
  There will be a 40 feet section between the flightline and parking area. Flags and marked poles will be up to mark off this area. No easy-ups, vehicles, or trailers allowed in this area. Only chairs are allowed. This will also serve as the corridor for walking. Plus will provide the LCO clear line of sight up and down the flightline and spectator area.

  Waiver for the weekend:
  The Sheridan launch will have a waiver of 5,300 feet AGL (Above Ground Level). You are welcome to fly any rocket with impulse rating of 1/4A and above. Rockets with impulse rating H and I will require that you have estimated the altitude with the motor in your rocket. Providing simulation data that demonstrates that your rocket will remain below 5,000 feet will be greatly appreciated. J impulse and above will require simulation paperwork. There are many altitude prediction tools available both on the web and as software (such as RocSim). Anyone planning an L1 or L2 certification will be required to show predicted altitude of the rocket. Minimum diameter HP rockets H or above, the RSO will ask how high. Lets play it safe everyone. Anything expected to exceed 4500 feet - bring simulation paperwork. Lets keep the RSO happy. An unhappy RSO is about like having your high school principal remembering you by name. 

  HAM Shack:
  This year we'll have a amateur radio station hosting 2 meters and maybe an HF station. If you're an amateur radio operator we'll be using frequency 146.600 MHz simplex during the event. Need help finding the site? Need help recovering a rocket? We'll be listening on 146.600 MHz. No tone. No offset. If you've been curious of amateur radio and want to try it out, stop by the shack and talk 3rd party while a licensed HAM is with you. Bring the kids too. Fun stuff... Who knows. You may get hooked and soon learn what a VEC is and why you need three to complete something. 

  We at OregonRocketry hope you can join us for what should be a very exciting weekend of model, sport and high power rocketry. Bring your friends, family, and neighbors to the launch so they can experience the fun and excitement. Everyone at the launch will be required to have a "OregonRocketry 2009" wristband. Flyers and spectators are required to wear a wristband. 

  More details about the Sheridan launch will be discussed during the next monthly meeting. The next OregonRocketry meeting is September 3rd 2009. Dinner/social gathering at 6:30pm ish and general meeting at 7:30pm at Giovanni's in Beaverton. Giovanni's is located at 12390 SW Broadway (corner of Broadway and Hall blvd) in downtown Beaverton 97005. OregonRocketry meetings are open to the public. NAR, TRA, or OregonRocketry membership is encouraged, but not required to attend a meeting. 

  Remember; Adventures in model, sport and amateur rocketry begins here with OregonRocketry. We'll see you at the launch. September 12th and 13th 2009.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  OROC President

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Mon Sep  7 15:52:20 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:52:20 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] 6" Motor Parts photos posted
Message-ID: <bf0.5a18558b.37d6e8a4@aol.com>

Just finished machining some parts for a 6" motor shipping up to Washington 
 state to be flown at BALLS.  Pics posted at northwestrocketry image  
gallery.
 
Mike F.
 
 

From fred at azinger.com  Mon Sep  7 18:12:08 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:12:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Balls Teaser uploaded.....
Message-ID: <007e01ca3021$6379a150$2a6ce3f0$@com>

I uploaded a picture of a piece of scrap Finocyl grain for our Balls
project.

We are bringing back the Apache the I CATO'ed on the pad last year.

We didn't get the class-3 paperwork done, so we need to neuter the motor
stack to stay under 40kns....chopping out a full grain from the booster and
adding huge smoke grains to both motors (what a waste of space!)

To help get the weaker boost off the pad, I've moved to a finocyl core.

The mandrel was made to my spec's by Ed at TruCore.

The motor should give a flat square pulse of thrust at ~1600 pounds for a
tad over 5 seconds of burn.

 

The sustainer is a 3" moon burner.

I pulled the mandrel this morning -- came out like butter and the grain
looks great.

We are looking for a 13+ second burn from it.

 

Test burns of both motors are planned for this weekend.

Video will follow.

 

See ya on the playa!!!

FredA

 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 18:13:14 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:13:14 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC I have 110 inches of 10 inch cardboard tubing....
Message-ID: <e83b26700909071813i6f6d5e5bva096246b2ee50902@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking to get  a team together to build this into a level 3 rocket.
Anyone out there want to get in on it let me know.

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Mon Sep  7 19:14:06 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:14:06 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Balls Teaser uploaded.....
Message-ID: <c9c.4e5264d4.37d717ee@aol.com>

Impressive!
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/7/2009 6:12:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
fred at azinger.com writes:

I  uploaded a picture of a piece of scrap Finocyl grain for our  Balls
project.

We are bringing back the Apache the I CATO'ed on the  pad last year.

We didn't get the class-3 paperwork done, so we need to  neuter the motor
stack to stay under 40kns....chopping out a full grain  from the booster and
adding huge smoke grains to both motors (what a waste  of space!)

To help get the weaker boost off the pad, I've moved to a  finocyl core.

The mandrel was made to my spec's by Ed at  TruCore.

The motor should give a flat square pulse of thrust at ~1600  pounds for a
tad over 5 seconds of burn.



The sustainer is a  3" moon burner.

I pulled the mandrel this morning -- came out like  butter and the grain
looks great.

We are looking for a 13+ second  burn from it.



Test burns of both motors are planned for this  weekend.

Video will follow.



See ya on the  playa!!!

FredA



_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From fred at azinger.com  Mon Sep  7 20:56:20 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:56:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Had a couple of questions about the Finocyl
Message-ID: <00b601ca3038$53db1910$fb914b30$@com>

I posted a plot of the predicted burn profile for the 6" Finocyl.


From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 23:15:24 2009
From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 23:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC I have 110 inches of 10 inch cardboard
	tubing....
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909071813i6f6d5e5bva096246b2ee50902@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909071813i6f6d5e5bva096246b2ee50902@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <993752.67111.qm@web50207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Level 3 rockets are not generally a team effort, at least not the certification rocket.? But mentoring is highly recommended!
Larry




________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 6:13:14 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC I have 110 inches of 10 inch cardboard tubing....

I am looking to get? a team together to build this into a level 3 rocket.
Anyone out there want to get in on it let me know.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From greg at blastzone.com  Tue Sep  8 10:32:21 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:32:21 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Had a couple of questions about the Finocyl
In-Reply-To: <00b601ca3038$53db1910$fb914b30$@com>
References: <00b601ca3038$53db1910$fb914b30$@com>
Message-ID: <052a01ca30aa$52d90b90$f88b22b0$@com>

Hey Fred, how close have the sims been to the actual burns?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Fred Azinger
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 8:56 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Had a couple of questions about the Finocyl
> 
> I posted a plot of the predicted burn profile for the 6" Finocyl.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From sales at pvconly.com  Tue Sep  8 12:48:42 2009
From: sales at pvconly.com (sales at pvconly.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Triton 100-X Starting Point
Message-ID: <396904.1341.qm@web1203.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I am continuing work developing a pourable PBAN based propellant. 
?
I am aware that most of this forum's members that roll their own, haven't yet or don't work with PBAN.
?
I have not worked with Triton 100-X, in R45HTLO or PBAN.
?
What is a typical starting percentage for this surfactant in R45?


From holdencurrency at comcast.net  Tue Sep  8 16:16:52 2009
From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 23:16:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck? / HOLDENS
 HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM
In-Reply-To: <2059826960.8066621252451600454.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1329272181.8067721252451812904.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>





Hi Everyone, 



??????? I'm really excited to host the club meeting 1 week from Saturday, September 12th. I would love to see everyone there. I will?have Hot Dogs & Drinks, But if anyone would like to contribute additional items?it would be welcome. 



???? ~ I'll be talking about Blue Tube & discussing my store. Over 100 Rocket Kits in stock, Supplies & more,.... available for purchase! 



?????~ Consignment Services Available! 



???? ~?Store address: 5015 Auburn Way N., Auburn Wa. 



Click on my website for a map and more?Info: www.holdenshobbies.com 



Please call If you have any questions! RSVP if possible so I know about how much food to? get . I hope to see ya all there! 



Best Regards, 

Chris Holden 

253-961-3095

From carl20320 at msn.com  Tue Sep  8 16:28:29 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:28:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
Message-ID: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>


I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know of any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.

 

Thanks!

Carl

From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Tue Sep  8 17:46:54 2009
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:46:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry??
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP4543EB0D622C69D96B92D2F4E90@phx.gbl>

Do you have a extra copy of Exteme Rocketry #84???
I am looking for a copy and I am willing to trade a motor or credit for it!!!
Let me know, I will be at XPRS and Sheridan!!!
Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager

Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707
Ph. 541-598-4406  Fax 541-593-5207

Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our 
natural world.

From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 18:24:36 2009
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:24:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck? /
	HOLDENS HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM
References: <1329272181.8067721252451812904.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <99286557713B45AB9DCF2D299EB04FE2@TNTCENTER>

Which Club?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Holden" <holdencurrency at comcast.net>

Hi Everyone,

I'm really excited to host the club meeting 1 week from Saturday, September 
12th. I would love to see everyone there. I will have Hot Dogs & Drinks, But 
if anyone would like to contribute additional items it would be welcome.

~ I'll be talking about Blue Tube & discussing my store. Over 100 Rocket 
Kits in stock, Supplies & more,.... available for purchase!
~ Consignment Services Available!

~ Store address: 5015 Auburn Way N., Auburn Wa.

Click on my website for a map and more Info: www.holdenshobbies.com

Please call If you have any questions! RSVP if possible so I know about how 
much food to get . I hope to see ya all there!

Best Regards,
Chris Holden
253-961-3095 


From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Tue Sep  8 18:39:00 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:39:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <011c01ca30ee$4e9640e0$ebc2c2a0$@net>

Carl's request made me think of the song by Dr. Hook and & The Medicine Show
- "The Cover of the Rolling Stone". - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Carl Degner
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry


I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know of
any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.

 

Thanks!

Carl
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Tue Sep  8 19:31:46 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:31:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck?
 /	HOLDENS HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM
In-Reply-To: <99286557713B45AB9DCF2D299EB04FE2@TNTCENTER>
References: <1329272181.8067721252451812904.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<99286557713B45AB9DCF2D299EB04FE2@TNTCENTER>
Message-ID: <4AA71392.4070908@hawkfeather.com>

Those WACky peeps...

Jeff Moore wrote:
> Which Club?
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chris Holden" <holdencurrency at comcast.net>
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm really excited to host the club meeting 1 week from Saturday, September 
> 12th. I would love to see everyone there. I will have Hot Dogs & Drinks, But 
> if anyone would like to contribute additional items it would be welcome.
> 
> ~ I'll be talking about Blue Tube & discussing my store. Over 100 Rocket 
> Kits in stock, Supplies & more,.... available for purchase!
> ~ Consignment Services Available!
> 
> ~ Store address: 5015 Auburn Way N., Auburn Wa.
> 
> Click on my website for a map and more Info: www.holdenshobbies.com
> 
> Please call If you have any questions! RSVP if possible so I know about how 
> much food to get . I hope to see ya all there!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Chris Holden
> 253-961-3095 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Tue Sep  8 19:52:36 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:52:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck?
	/HOLDENS HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM
References: <1329272181.8067721252451812904.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<99286557713B45AB9DCF2D299EB04FE2@TNTCENTER>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300278@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Washington Aerospace.  It was announced in the last few days that the Sept. WAC meeting is at Chris' shop.
 
What time is the meeting starting?  I'm going to do my best to do the Husky Football win (Finally!!!) / WAC meeting doubleheader.
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Jeff Moore
Sent: Tue 9/8/2009 6:24 PM
To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck? /HOLDENS HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM



Which Club?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Holden" <holdencurrency at comcast.net>

Hi Everyone,

I'm really excited to host the club meeting 1 week from Saturday, September
12th. I would love to see everyone there. I will have Hot Dogs & Drinks, But
if anyone would like to contribute additional items it would be welcome.

~ I'll be talking about Blue Tube & discussing my store. Over 100 Rocket
Kits in stock, Supplies & more,.... available for purchase!
~ Consignment Services Available!

~ Store address: 5015 Auburn Way N., Auburn Wa.

Click on my website for a map and more Info: www.holdenshobbies.com

Please call If you have any questions! RSVP if possible so I know about how
much food to get . I hope to see ya all there!

Best Regards,
Chris Holden
253-961-3095

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From absworld at cet.com  Tue Sep  8 20:09:13 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:09:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>

Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.

My last issue was #83.....danGIT.

Bob Yanecek

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Carl Degner
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry


I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know of
any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.

 

Thanks!

Carl
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  9 05:21:41 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 05:21:41 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W13D87A4AFF1CA52B1BDDE4A6E90@phx.gbl>


My renewal notice states that my subscription expires with issue # 85. However, I have not received #84 as yet. :(

 

Mark Lyons
 
> From: absworld at cet.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:09:13 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
> 
> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
> 
> Bob Yanecek
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
> To: Rockets NW list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> 
> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy! I called
> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82. I need 84. If you know of
> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Carl
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 07:45:47 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 07:45:47 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909090745w30df3a0ej13c256870fc17267@mail.gmail.com>

You might try looking at Powells.com or amazon.com  never know you may have
some luck there.

Chris

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:

>
> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know of
> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carl
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From appusher at q.com  Wed Sep  9 09:12:35 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:12:35 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck?
	/	HOLDENS HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM
In-Reply-To: <99286557713B45AB9DCF2D299EB04FE2@TNTCENTER>
References: <1329272181.8067721252451812904.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<99286557713B45AB9DCF2D299EB04FE2@TNTCENTER>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W23E59CFB8B600E9B39D357DCE90@phx.gbl>




Washington Aerospace







 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
 
> From: tnetcenter at gmail.com
> To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:24:36 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck? / HOLDENS HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM
> 
> Which Club?
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chris Holden" <holdencurrency at comcast.net>
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm really excited to host the club meeting 1 week from Saturday, September 
> 12th. I would love to see everyone there. I will have Hot Dogs & Drinks, But 
> if anyone would like to contribute additional items it would be welcome.
> 
> ~ I'll be talking about Blue Tube & discussing my store. Over 100 Rocket 
> Kits in stock, Supplies & more,.... available for purchase!
> ~ Consignment Services Available!
> 
> ~ Store address: 5015 Auburn Way N., Auburn Wa.
> 
> Click on my website for a map and more Info: www.holdenshobbies.com
> 
> Please call If you have any questions! RSVP if possible so I know about how 
> much food to get . I hope to see ya all there!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Chris Holden
> 253-961-3095 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com  Wed Sep  9 13:38:52 2009
From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:38:52 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tammies 25% off Aerotech & Loki motor sale
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W13D87A4AFF1CA52B1BDDE4A6E90@phx.gbl>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>
	<BLU135-W13D87A4AFF1CA52B1BDDE4A6E90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F53688419E855C34@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net>


Duane just called and asked me to post that all Aerotech and Loki motors in stock are 25% through Friday. 

Stop by the store or phone your order in (503)644-4535. 

Phone orders will be delivered to the Sheridan launch site early Saturday AM.

Shop early for best selection.



From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Wed Sep  9 14:05:45 2009
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:05:45 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Sunriver Update........
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP528FDA1AA7BB17622F7899F4E90@phx.gbl>

Greetings all,
As I sit here and wait for our Aerotech order, just wanted to let you 
know our plans for Sheridan.
Will be setting up on Friday night, and will be at the launch all 
weekend.  We did get more stock from LOKI, PML, Semroc, LOC, and 
Gwiz, and waiting for shipments from Perfectflite and Rouse Tech. 
Hopefully everything shows up before Friday.

Our long awaited shipment from CTI will not make it time for this 
weekend, but we should have it in time for XPRS.

We will be offering some reloads for demo flights, including LOKI 
spitfire  G reload, and a few others.

Should be a fun weekend, look forward to seeing you at the launch site.

Bob

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 15:33:37 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:33:37 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
Message-ID: <e83b26700909091533v6c594a4am428f518d3bc21d8d@mail.gmail.com>

Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.   Man what a chore.  I have a
38mm PML Cirrus Dart with a 29/38mm adapter and could not find anything that
would act as a good retainer.  I ended up getting some small exterior
EZ-Cable Clips and did some bending and filling and now a have a pair of
side mounted motor retainers.

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Wed Sep  9 15:40:35 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:40:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909091533v6c594a4am428f518d3bc21d8d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909091533v6c594a4am428f518d3bc21d8d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E418D8D0C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Might be too late now with your build. But for minimum diameter rockets, I like to hang on to the motor from the forward end. A nice cable or hose clamp compressed on the forward closure ring with some Kevlar pull tape allows you to extend the pull tape up to your first coupler/bulkhead. Then find a way to secure it. If you're doing motor eject, that is. If you're not planning motor eject, use a threaded rod. Attach to the forward closure with a hose clamp, and then turn it inside the airframe until it aligns with a precut hole at the same offset as the rod. Big washer and nut, and you're motor is secure. 

Others will offer ideas too. This is one of mine, and may not be the best. Just ways of accomplishing the task. Happy flying. 

Cheers, 
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:34 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.

Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.   Man what a chore.  I have a
38mm PML Cirrus Dart with a 29/38mm adapter and could not find anything that
would act as a good retainer.  I ended up getting some small exterior
EZ-Cable Clips and did some bending and filling and now a have a pair of
side mounted motor retainers.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From holdencurrency at comcast.net  Wed Sep  9 15:44:09 2009
From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 22:44:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck? /
 HOLDENS HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0909082047w4ea1ad05o20437d6d1a4801c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <229019263.8499201252536249430.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



Hi All! 



Meeting can start at 7:00PM? (This Saturday) 

however Since we're eating I didn't want it to be to late. I'm have the gourmet hot dogs catered by lucky's Hot dog's & everything will be there at 6PM this will also give time for people to look around before the meeting starts. The mall is planning to stay open for our group. 4 stories of stuff to look at. Come early stay late. 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl Hamilton" <carl at mousetrap.com> 
To: "Chris Holden" <holdencurrency at comcast.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 8:47:34 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck? / HOLDENS ?HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM 

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Carl Hamilton < carl at mousetrap.com > wrote: 





Chris - 

Just to confirm, you meant that the meeting will be *this* Saturday, the 12th, not a week from this Saturday, the 12th, right? I think the wording of your message is confusing. 

Assuming you are hosting *this* Saturday, I will be there at 7:00 with a bunch of small bags of potato chips. 
Let me rephrase this part. Do you want the meeting to start at 6:00, or would you rather people show up between 6:00 and 7:00 to check out your store and then start the official meeting at 7:00? People are curious and we should let them know what to expect. 


?- Carl 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 16:03:27 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:03:27 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E418D8D0C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <e83b26700909091533v6c594a4am428f518d3bc21d8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E418D8D0C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909091603q69888e7flcfb6d66773476ece@mail.gmail.com>

I plan to use this for my Level 1 Cert at Sheridan.  So I really did not
want to loose my motor gear.  As I have so little time left from now till
then I have just plain side mounted the retaining system I made.  After the
cert I plan to dado out the area that is needed so that nothing protrudes
outside the airframe.



On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Krausert, Robert
<robert.krausert at intel.com>wrote:

> Might be too late now with your build. But for minimum diameter rockets, I
> like to hang on to the motor from the forward end. A nice cable or hose
> clamp compressed on the forward closure ring with some Kevlar pull tape
> allows you to extend the pull tape up to your first coupler/bulkhead. Then
> find a way to secure it. If you're doing motor eject, that is. If you're not
> planning motor eject, use a threaded rod. Attach to the forward closure with
> a hose clamp, and then turn it inside the airframe until it aligns with a
> precut hole at the same offset as the rod. Big washer and nut, and you're
> motor is secure.
>
> Others will offer ideas too. This is one of mine, and may not be the best.
> Just ways of accomplishing the task. Happy flying.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:34 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
>
> Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.   Man what a chore.  I have a
> 38mm PML Cirrus Dart with a 29/38mm adapter and could not find anything
> that
> would act as a good retainer.  I ended up getting some small exterior
> EZ-Cable Clips and did some bending and filling and now a have a pair of
> side mounted motor retainers.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From dmrandall at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 15:54:47 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:54:47 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E418D8D0C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <e83b26700909091533v6c594a4am428f518d3bc21d8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E418D8D0C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909091554v4f9b52cbn3c0927cc8d00dfeb@mail.gmail.com>

I have one 29mm min dia rocket.  I solved it by embedding some all
thread into the epoxy fillets.  This let me put a small metal ring
with three holes over the motor and use some nuts to hold them in
place.   Not super, super aerodynamic, but it worked.

Dave

From sb at berfield.com  Wed Sep  9 16:21:02 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:21:02 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
Message-ID: <200909092321.n89NL4U8004594@omr9.networksolutionsemail.com>

Not as elegant, perhaps, but... Duct tape.

-----Original Message-----
From: Krausert, Robert <robert.krausert at intel.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:40 PM
To: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>; rockets at rocketsnwcom <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.

Might be too late now with your build. But for minimum diameter rockets, I like to hang on to the motor from the forward end. A nice cable or hose clamp compressed on the forward closure ring with some Kevlar pull tape allows you to extend the pull tape up to your first coupler/bulkhead. Then find a way to secure it. If you're doing motor eject, that is. If you're not planning motor eject, use a threaded rod. Attach to the forward closure with a hose clamp, and then turn it inside the airframe until it aligns with a precut hole at the same offset as the rod. Big washer and nut, and you're motor is secure. 

Others will offer ideas too. This is one of mine, and may not be the best. Just ways of accomplishing the task. Happy flying. 

Cheers, 
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 3:34 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.

Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.   Man what a chore.  I have a
38mm PML Cirrus Dart with a 29/38mm adapter and could not find anything that
would act as a good retainer.  I ended up getting some small exterior
EZ-Cable Clips and did some bending and filling and now a have a pair of
side mounted motor retainers.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From carl20320 at msn.com  Wed Sep  9 16:23:35 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:23:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
In-Reply-To: <200909092321.n89NL4U8004594@omr9.networksolutionsemail.com>
References: <200909092321.n89NL4U8004594@omr9.networksolutionsemail.com>
Message-ID: <COL120-W86C21EF666D1450F54E79EAE90@phx.gbl>


Friction fit then aluminum tape around the aft end.


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 16:42:43 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:42:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W86C21EF666D1450F54E79EAE90@phx.gbl>
References: <200909092321.n89NL4U8004594@omr9.networksolutionsemail.com>
	<COL120-W86C21EF666D1450F54E79EAE90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909091642q29b275ddrb11229e2684df6ed@mail.gmail.com>

We all know Friction Fit as not always successful no matter how much tape
you use.  Anyway I would be more then glad to compare notes on anything.
All advice is welcome.  I will definitely need some mentoring when it comes
to loading the motor as I have never done a reload before.  I also have a
modified Estes FatBoy with a LOC 29mm  mount.  Rocksim shows it reaching
around 8000 feet.  cant wait to test it out.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:

>  Friction fit then aluminum tape around the aft end.
>
>

From carl20320 at msn.com  Wed Sep  9 16:46:08 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:46:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909091642q29b275ddrb11229e2684df6ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200909092321.n89NL4U8004594@omr9.networksolutionsemail.com>
	<COL120-W86C21EF666D1450F54E79EAE90@phx.gbl> 
	<e83b26700909091642q29b275ddrb11229e2684df6ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL120-W1725FA38B277F2AB80E1D9EAE90@phx.gbl>


Friction fit by itself is not always reliable.  That is why you use the aluminum tape around outside of the aft end of the rocket then wrapped around the aft closure.  It is not likely to go anywhere unless you use way to big of a deployment charge.
 


Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:42:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
To: carl20320 at msn.com
CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com

We all know Friction Fit as not always successful no matter how much tape you use.  Anyway I would be more then glad to compare notes on anything.  All advice is welcome.  I will definitely need some mentoring when it comes to loading the motor as I have never done a reload before.  I also have a modified Estes FatBoy with a LOC 29mm  mount.  Rocksim shows it reaching around 8000 feet.  cant wait to test it out.


On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:


Friction fit then aluminum tape around the aft end.



From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Wed Sep  9 17:00:05 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:00:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909091642q29b275ddrb11229e2684df6ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200909092321.n89NL4U8004594@omr9.networksolutionsemail.com>	<COL120-W86C21EF666D1450F54E79EAE90@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26700909091642q29b275ddrb11229e2684df6ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006a01ca31a9$a8de85b0$fa9b9110$@net>

I embed ground down t-nuts in the back of fin fillet.  I then use screws to
hold the motor in.  This is a variation on ones that Bob Y did.  This and a
bit of friction fitting work well when the fin can is shorter than the
motor.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:43 PM
To: Carl Degner
Cc: Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.

We all know Friction Fit as not always successful no matter how much tape
you use.  Anyway I would be more then glad to compare notes on anything.
All advice is welcome.  I will definitely need some mentoring when it comes
to loading the motor as I have never done a reload before.  I also have a
modified Estes FatBoy with a LOC 29mm  mount.  Rocksim shows it reaching
around 8000 feet.  cant wait to test it out.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:

>  Friction fit then aluminum tape around the aft end.
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Wed Sep  9 17:14:36 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:14:36 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
Message-ID: <c8a.44fbcdd0.37d99eec@aol.com>

I concur.....  Except for I don't friction fit since the tape  softens up 
and make it near impossible to get out.
 
I just use a couple wraps of aluminum tape extending past the motor then  
fold it around the back of the motor making sure not to block the nozzle.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/9/2009 4:24:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
carl20320 at msn.com writes:

Friction  fit then aluminum tape around the aft  end.



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Wed Sep  9 23:25:01 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 23:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fabricated a minimum diameter motor retainer.
In-Reply-To: <c8a.44fbcdd0.37d99eec@aol.com>
References: <c8a.44fbcdd0.37d99eec@aol.com>
Message-ID: <437dbfb392da84b56e3b560c15523b32.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Heck, on my motor eject level 2 cert flight back in '96(or was it '95?) I
used masking tape for friction-plus-over-the-rear on a Vulcan SU J250. 
Worked fine.  That kind of thing was common then.

Nowadays I use positive motor retention wherever possible.
+McG+


> I concur.....  Except for I don't friction fit since the tape  softens up
> and make it near impossible to get out.
>
> I just use a couple wraps of aluminum tape extending past the motor then
> fold it around the back of the motor making sure not to block the nozzle.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 9/9/2009 4:24:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> carl20320 at msn.com writes:
>
> Friction  fit then aluminum tape around the aft  end.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From Simpsonclark at aol.com  Thu Sep 10 09:08:01 2009
From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:08:01 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
Message-ID: <bf6.3c651981.37da7e61@aol.com>

Might I suggest that as they are going out of business. they should be  
willing to let someone scan & post the article/cover.
 
 
In a message dated 9/9/2009 7:46:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes:

You  might try looking at Powells.com or amazon.com  never know you may  
have
some luck there.

Chris

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:28 PM,  Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:

>
> I made the  cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> Clapp  took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
>  Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you  know 
of
> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me  know.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carl
>  _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From carl at mousetrap.com  Thu Sep 10 10:41:03 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:41:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace September meeting
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909101041y6faf469fm36d8c84460804d58@mail.gmail.com>

If you don't plan to attend the Washington Aerospace September meeting, you
can stop reading now.
This is just another reminder that Washington Aerospace will be holding its
September meeting this Saturday, the 12th. Chris Holden has offered to host
the meeting at his hobby shop, Holden's Hobbies, in Auburn. You can find the
address and driving directions at the shop's web site:
http://www.holdenshobbies.com/. Chris will be providing hot dogs and drinks
starting at 6:00PM. It would be nice to let Chris know if you are coming (
holdencurrency at comcast.net or 253-961-3095) so that he can order enough
food. The meeting doesn't officially start until 7:00, so you will have time
to eat and browse his inventory.

Chris will be talking about his store and Blue Tube. We will discuss the
upcoming September launch, try to watch some of the FITS DVD, and allow time
for show and tell. If you have a project you are working on, bring it to the
meeting so that everybody else can "ooh" and "ah". If you have questions
about a project you are working on, come to the meeting with those. If you
aren't working on a project, but still have questions, those are welcome
too! On top of all of this, NAR level 2 written exams will be available for
the taking.

Hope to see you on Saturday.

 - Carl

From carl at mousetrap.com  Thu Sep 10 14:03:36 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:03:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace September launch
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909101403l621644c2o279756106d65c016@mail.gmail.com>

If you do not plan to attend the Washington Aerospace September launch in
Mansfield, you can stop reading now.
The first annual Washington Aerospace September launch (aka the unnamed
launch) will be held over the weekend of September 19th and 20th in
Mansfield, WA. That's just over one week from today. Wahoo!

We will be flying from Tom Snell's "Ranch". While a little more rugged than
the Sportsmen's Club, this site is a flyer's paradise, with wide open
terrain and an FAA waiver to 25K' AGL. The site is located 10 miles east of
town on O Road NE, about a mile south of SR 172 (
http://maps.google.com/?q=47.80053,-119.427738+(Snell+Ranch)&z=15). Tom will
be mowing an area somewhere near the intersection of O Road NE and 13 Road
NE, but I don't know exactly where. Your best bet for getting there is to
turn south onto O Road NE from SR 172. When you hit 13 Road NE, start
looking for people with rockets.

Unless I get a volunteer to tow the club trailer from Federal Way to the
launch site and back, I'm going to run this as a "small" launch, with a
minimum of GSE. I plan to have three high-power pads with rails, three
mid-power pads with rails and rods, and a single saw horse of low-power
pads. I don't plan to bring the "away" controller, so if you think you'll
need it, you better let me know. We won't have the PA system or the FM
transmitter, so launch announcements will be done over FRS. If you have FRS
radios, please bring them with you.

I haven't been to the site recently, but I expect the grass to be extremely
dry. I will bring several water-based fire extinguishers, but if you have
one, please bring a rake or a shovel for fire control.

I will be looking for volunteers for RSO and LCO. If I find anybody
(including myself) working a position too long, I *will* find a replacement,
whether voluntary or not.

I will have NAR level 2 written exams with me. If you are interested in
taking the test, please let me know. I will also be available (as will many
others) to witness certification flights.

Washington Aerospace members and their families fly for free. We will be
charging non-members a $10 range fee for the weekend. If you haven't
attended one of our launches this year, you will need to complete and sign a
liability waiver (this includes spectators). I will have blank forms with
me, but it will make everybody's life easier if you use our online form at
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php.

The Sunflower Cafe, in downtown Mansfield, has offered to take food orders
over the phone for pickup at the cafe. So, Saturday afternoon when you are
starving, call them at 509-683-1068, place your order, and your food will be
ready by the time you get to town.

Think clear skies and calm winds. Hope to see you there!

 - Carl

From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com  Thu Sep 10 15:16:15 2009
From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:16:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <bf6.3c651981.37da7e61@aol.com>
References: <bf6.3c651981.37da7e61@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F53688419E855F01@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net>

....or have Brent put the magazine documents on CDs and sell them.  

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Simpsonclark at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:08 AM
To: guentherchristopher at gmail.com; carl20320 at msn.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

Might I suggest that as they are going out of business. they should be  
willing to let someone scan & post the article/cover.
 
 
In a message dated 9/9/2009 7:46:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes:

You  might try looking at Powells.com or amazon.com  never know you may  
have
some luck there.

Chris

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:28 PM,  Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:

>
> I made the  cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> Clapp  took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
>  Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you  know 
of
> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me  know.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carl
>  _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From cary4 at juno.com  Thu Sep 10 16:25:15 2009
From: cary4 at juno.com (cary4)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:25:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Message from Extreme Rocketry
Message-ID: <20090910.162137.16869.217968@mailpop03.vgs.untd.com>

I Thought I would pass this info along to you guys.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:57:54 -0700 <cary4 at juno.com> writes:
Hi Brent,
I myself would like 2 copies but, I will do some checking of the members
of the Rocketry club and get back to you.
 
Thank You.
 
-Cary-
 
 
 
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:44 -0600 Extreme Rocketry Orders
<orders at extremerocketry.com> writes:
officially I've closed my doors, but I can figure out a way to get you a
few copies of #84. how many do you need?


********************************
Brent McNeely
Extreme Rocketry Orders
orders at extremerocketry.com
790 Independence St.
Lakewood, CO 80215


On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Cary States wrote:


From: Cary States
Email: cary4 at juno.com

------------------------------------------------------

Hi,
I am so sorry you are ending this great magazine of yours. I hope you can
resurrect yourselves in the near future after things turn around.
My question is: are there any copies of back issue #84 (last issue)
available for purchase?

Thank You!
Sincerely,
-Cary States-

------------------------------------------------------
Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:00:06 -0700 rockets-request at rocketsnw.com writes:
 Today's Topics:
 
    1. Re: HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry (Mark Lyons)
    2. Re: HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry (Christopher Guenther)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
  From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
 [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
 On Behalf Of Carl Degner
 Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
 To: Rockets NW list
 Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
 
 
 I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot 
 Rick
 Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy! I 
 called
 Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82. I need 84. If you 
 know of
 any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
 
 
 Thanks!
 
 Carl
____________________________________________________________
Bachelors Degree Programs
Earn your bachelors degree online. Find your ideal degree program now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=zzadCF2GveiGJ2CYfYW72gAAJ1C1BQDOebirPKIHQRaqOG0-AAQAAAAFAAAAAPWpdD8AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAByRHAAAAAA==

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Thu Sep 10 17:43:23 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:43:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Sport Rocketry Cover
In-Reply-To: <W74819949267521252107598@webmail49>
References: <W74819949267521252107598@webmail49>
Message-ID: <009101ca3278$df73e820$9e5bb860$@net>

Did anyone else notice that the guy on the cover of Sport Rocketry looks
like Pete Ekstrom?  However, it can't be because he is getting ready to
launch a 4" Jayhawk and Pete's style is min diameter or with beer. - Marty 


From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 10 18:35:17 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:35:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Message from Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <20090910.162137.16869.217968@mailpop03.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090910.162137.16869.217968@mailpop03.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <FF7AA72A54714653BFF4A53C9867380F@DellNotebook>

We would like at least 1

John, Terri, Allyne and Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of cary4
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:25 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Message from Extreme Rocketry

I Thought I would pass this info along to you guys.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:57:54 -0700 <cary4 at juno.com> writes:
Hi Brent,
I myself would like 2 copies but, I will do some checking of the members
of the Rocketry club and get back to you.
 
Thank You.
 
-Cary-
 
 
 
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:05:44 -0600 Extreme Rocketry Orders
<orders at extremerocketry.com> writes:
officially I've closed my doors, but I can figure out a way to get you a
few copies of #84. how many do you need?


********************************
Brent McNeely
Extreme Rocketry Orders
orders at extremerocketry.com
790 Independence St.
Lakewood, CO 80215


On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Cary States wrote:


From: Cary States
Email: cary4 at juno.com

------------------------------------------------------

Hi,
I am so sorry you are ending this great magazine of yours. I hope you can
resurrect yourselves in the near future after things turn around.
My question is: are there any copies of back issue #84 (last issue)
available for purchase?

Thank You!
Sincerely,
-Cary States-

------------------------------------------------------
Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:00:06 -0700 rockets-request at rocketsnw.com writes:
 Today's Topics:
 
    1. Re: HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry (Mark Lyons)
    2. Re: HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry (Christopher Guenther)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
  From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
 [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
 On Behalf Of Carl Degner
 Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
 To: Rockets NW list
 Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
 
 
 I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot 
 Rick
 Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy! I 
 called
 Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82. I need 84. If you 
 know of
 any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
 
 
 Thanks!
 
 Carl
____________________________________________________________
Bachelors Degree Programs
Earn your bachelors degree online. Find your ideal degree program now.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=zzadCF2GveiGJ2CYfYW72gAAJ1C1BQ
DOebirPKIHQRaqOG0-AAQAAAAFAAAAAPWpdD8AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAByRHAAAAAA==
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From ryan98391 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 18:57:30 2009
From: ryan98391 at gmail.com (Ryan Williams)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:57:30 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 20, Issue 24
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1252522806.22748.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.5.1252522806.22748.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <d9e1a2c90909101857p2a060636l3b3e410e0a864dcf@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking foward to attending the meeting at Chris's shop. I'll bring some
snacks.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:00 PM, <rockets-request at rocketsnw.com> wrote:

> Send Rockets mailing list submissions to
>        rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        rockets-request at rocketsnw.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        rockets-owner at rocketsnw.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Rockets digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry (Mark Lyons)
>   2. Re: HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry (Christopher Guenther)
>   3. Re: Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck?   /       HOLDENS
>      HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM (Bill Munds)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 05:21:41 -0700
> From: Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com>
> To: Bob and Ann Yanecek <absworld at cet.com>, <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> Message-ID: <BLU135-W13D87A4AFF1CA52B1BDDE4A6E90 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> My renewal notice states that my subscription expires with issue # 85.
> However, I have not received #84 as yet. :(
>
>
>
> Mark Lyons
>
> > From: absworld at cet.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:09:13 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> > Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
> >
> > My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
> >
> > Bob Yanecek
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:
> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
> > To: Rockets NW list
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> >
> > I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> > Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy! I called
> > Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82. I need 84. If you know of
> > any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Carl
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
>
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 07:45:47 -0700
> From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> To: Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com>
> Cc: Rockets NW list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> Message-ID:
>        <e83b26700909090745w30df3a0ej13c256870fc17267 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> You might try looking at Powells.com or amazon.com  never know you may
> have
> some luck there.
>
> Chris
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> > Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
> > Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know
> of
> > any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Carl
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:12:35 +0000
> From: Bill Munds <appusher at q.com>
> To: Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com>, <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck?    /
>        HOLDENS HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM
> Message-ID: <BLU107-W23E59CFB8B600E9B39D357DCE90 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
>
> Washington Aerospace
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
>
> > From: tnetcenter at gmail.com
> > To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:24:36 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Regardsing: CLUB MEETING / Party / Potluck? /
> HOLDENS HOBBIES THIS SATURDAY. 6PM
> >
> > Which Club?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Holden" <holdencurrency at comcast.net>
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I'm really excited to host the club meeting 1 week from Saturday,
> September
> > 12th. I would love to see everyone there. I will have Hot Dogs & Drinks,
> But
> > if anyone would like to contribute additional items it would be welcome.
> >
> > ~ I'll be talking about Blue Tube & discussing my store. Over 100 Rocket
> > Kits in stock, Supplies & more,.... available for purchase!
> > ~ Consignment Services Available!
> >
> > ~ Store address: 5015 Auburn Way N., Auburn Wa.
> >
> > Click on my website for a map and more Info: www.holdenshobbies.com
> >
> > Please call If you have any questions! RSVP if possible so I know about
> how
> > much food to get . I hope to see ya all there!
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Chris Holden
> > 253-961-3095
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> End of Rockets Digest, Vol 20, Issue 24
> ***************************************
>

From appusher at q.com  Thu Sep 10 20:03:25 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:03:25 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Anybody from seattle going to Dayton friday afternoon??
Message-ID: <BLU107-W16D3D5A0D3907550277AF9DCE70@phx.gbl>


I need a transport for some motors going to Dayton leaving Seattle area Friday afternoon.

 

Reward available.

 

Bill at PSP










 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

From bigredbee at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 21:09:26 2009
From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:09:26 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS? Raise your hand
Message-ID: <bf3fe8020909102109r57ba42d4odeeb5562e70eade8@mail.gmail.com>

Are you going?  Speak up!
I'll be there -- arriving Thursday PM, Leaving Sunday PM.  I'll be vending,
so look for me near the flight line.

-- Greg

From vern_knowles at att.net  Thu Sep 10 21:58:58 2009
From: vern_knowles at att.net (Vern Knowles)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:58:58 -0600
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS? Raise your hand
In-Reply-To: <bf3fe8020909102109r57ba42d4odeeb5562e70eade8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf3fe8020909102109r57ba42d4odeeb5562e70eade8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00dd01ca329c$92e468d0$0400a8c0@MainPC>

 
I'll be there.  Also arriving Thursday PM.

Vern Knowles
www.vernk.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:09 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS? Raise your hand
> 
> Are you going?  Speak up!
> I'll be there -- arriving Thursday PM, Leaving Sunday PM.  
> I'll be vending,
> so look for me near the flight line.
> 
> -- Greg
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   


From sb at berfield.com  Thu Sep 10 22:07:50 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:07:50 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS? Raise your hand
Message-ID: <200909110507.n8B57omv010942@omr12.networksolutionsemail.com>

Mike Wyvel, Dave Randall an I will arrive Wed and leave Monday. We're flying U4EA Monday morning.

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Clark <bigredbee at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:09 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS? Raise your hand

Are you going?  Speak up!
I'll be there -- arriving Thursday PM, Leaving Sunday PM.  I'll be vending,
so look for me near the flight line.

-- Greg
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 07:12:24 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:12:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>

I was woundering if you set the rail buttons up in a washer, tube spacer,
washer configuration or if you go with the tube spacer then the 2 washers?

From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com  Fri Sep 11 07:49:06 2009
From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:49:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E8081220B2@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>

for proper spacing, it's the former. washer, spacer, washer. The rail
rides between the washers. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Guenther [mailto:guentherchristopher at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:12 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?

I was woundering if you set the rail buttons up in a washer, tube
spacer, washer configuration or if you go with the tube spacer then the
2 washers?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 07:49:43 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Goggle is your friend. Or look it up in info central.

John H




________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 7:12:24 AM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?

I was woundering if you set the rail buttons up in a washer, tube spacer,
washer configuration or if you go with the tube spacer then the 2 washers?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From jackhydrazine at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 11 08:32:31 2009
From: jackhydrazine at earthlink.net (Jack Hydrazine)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:32:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket
 Targeted for Sept. 10
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB13@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <4983148.1251920856652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB13@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <4AAA6D8F.5000709@earthlink.net>

NASA And ATK Test Ares First Stage Motor
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/NASA_And_ATK_Test_Ares_First_Stage_Motor_999.html



Schurke, Peter wrote:
> My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.
>
> I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.
>
> As the folks at ATK explained it (Caveat:  they're the ones making the stuff, so of course they have a ultra positive spin) they are combining the "safest position for the astronauts" (capsule atop the stack) from the Saturn design with the "flight proven element with big oomph" part derived from the shuttle SRB.  They claim it's the "Safest design yet".
>
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM
> To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke, Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
> Subject: [Possible SPAM] RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
> Importance: Low
>
> All grains?  Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the funding hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this is just a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.
>
> Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated candles in general.  Thanks for the info Pete.  /Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
>   
>> From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM
>> To: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>, "steve-c at ix.netcom.com" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>, "sales at pvconly.com" <sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>>
>> Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or the aft grain? 
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
>> To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; 
>> Hammer
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for 
>> Sept. 10
>>
>> According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes we can't tell you about"
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of 
>> steve-c at ix.netcom.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
>> To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted 
>> forSept. 10
>>
>> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the 
>> payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  
>> Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a 
>> smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle 
>> SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in 
>> learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of 
>> Google?  /Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>     
>>> From: sales at pvconly.com
>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>>>
>>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>>  
>>> The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>>  
>>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>>> 10
>>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>>
>>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>>
>>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>>
>>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>>>
>>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>>>
>>> The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>>
>>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>  
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   


From dmrandall at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 08:32:51 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:32:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>
	<200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>

A related question....

Epoxy the screws in place, or just screw them in?  The reason I ask is
after only two flights, the buttons on my Excel Plus Plus booster are
worn and look like they may need replacing after a few more flights.
Other buttons have fared better, but I know that after epoxying them
in to the centering rings, the only way they'll come out is to drill
them out.

So, do folks always/never epoxy rail buttons in place?

Dave

From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com  Fri Sep 11 08:41:46 2009
From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:41:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com><200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E8081220B3@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>

I normally drill a hole, dab in some super glue, then install the screw.
The super glue not only fixes the screw, but it also stiffens up and
hardens the cardboard BT. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Randall [mailto:dmrandall at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:33 AM
To: John Hornsby
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?

A related question....

Epoxy the screws in place, or just screw them in?  The reason I ask is
after only two flights, the buttons on my Excel Plus Plus booster are
worn and look like they may need replacing after a few more flights.
Other buttons have fared better, but I know that after epoxying them in
to the centering rings, the only way they'll come out is to drill them
out.

So, do folks always/never epoxy rail buttons in place?

Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From lsagan123 at msn.com  Fri Sep 11 08:43:43 2009
From: lsagan123 at msn.com (Sareth Tes)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:43:43 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>
	<200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> 
	<6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W1656A5765D431B4B526C34E3E70@phx.gbl>


I am far from the most experienced but I put the screw in to set the pattern, pull it out put in a drop or 2 of CA and then screw the button assemby in. The CA works like a Loc-Tite and also holds the buttons but if needed can be removed with a bit of force and still leave the hole in fair order.

 

Ralph Strauser

Tripoli 006672
 
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:32:51 -0700
> From: dmrandall at gmail.com
> To: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
> 
> A related question....
> 
> Epoxy the screws in place, or just screw them in? The reason I ask is
> after only two flights, the buttons on my Excel Plus Plus booster are
> worn and look like they may need replacing after a few more flights.
> Other buttons have fared better, but I know that after epoxying them
> in to the centering rings, the only way they'll come out is to drill
> them out.
> 
> So, do folks always/never epoxy rail buttons in place?
> 
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Fri Sep 11 09:00:44 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:00:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>	<200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002f01ca32f9$057faf60$107f0e20$@net>

I normally tap put some thin CA into the tapped hole and let it cure before
I install the buttons.  Seems to hold up a bit better and gives me the
option of taking them out.  For a larger rocket I envision using a threaded
insert or installing a coupler for threaded rod in an oversized hole to give
a metal to metal connection that should hold up very well.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:33 AM
To: John Hornsby
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?

A related question....

Epoxy the screws in place, or just screw them in?  The reason I ask is
after only two flights, the buttons on my Excel Plus Plus booster are
worn and look like they may need replacing after a few more flights.
Other buttons have fared better, but I know that after epoxying them
in to the centering rings, the only way they'll come out is to drill
them out.

So, do folks always/never epoxy rail buttons in place?

Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From greg at blastzone.com  Fri Sep 11 09:09:06 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:09:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>	<200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <103801ca32fa$30d88730$92899590$@com>

I never epoxy them.  If only because I always seem to be short rail buttons
and end up borrowing from one rocket for another.  

Also, if you get to a launch with one size rail button, and they only have a
large rail it sucks to not be able to swap them out to the right size.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Dave Randall
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:33 AM
> To: John Hornsby
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
> 
> A related question....
> 
> Epoxy the screws in place, or just screw them in?  The reason I ask is
> after only two flights, the buttons on my Excel Plus Plus booster are
> worn and look like they may need replacing after a few more flights.
> Other buttons have fared better, but I know that after epoxying them
> in to the centering rings, the only way they'll come out is to drill
> them out.
> 
> So, do folks always/never epoxy rail buttons in place?
> 
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com  Fri Sep 11 09:17:52 2009
From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:17:52 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Paul Robinson
Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F53688419E85600B@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: l3cc-bounces at nar.org [mailto:l3cc-bounces at nar.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Boy
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:04 PM
To: 'TRA Technical Advisor Panel'; l3cc at nar.org; 'David Smith'; 'R & S Willey'; 'Nikita Piankov'
Subject: [L3CC] Paul Robinson

Just to let Paul's rocketry friends know that he is being lovingly cared for
by his sister and brother-in-law and a team of kind hospice professionals
and that his condition is critical. He is not able to talk on the phone or
email.

 

Cards, etc. to:


c/o Woodmans

11 Rocky Hill Drive

Nashua, NH 03062



From jimnietmann at verizon.net  Fri Sep 11 09:15:25 2009
From: jimnietmann at verizon.net (Jim Nietmann)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:15:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS? Raise your hand
In-Reply-To: <200909110507.n8B57omv010942@omr12.networksolutionsemail.com>
References: <200909110507.n8B57omv010942@omr12.networksolutionsemail.com>
Message-ID: <159726.68872.qm@web84006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm going, and will be flying a 4"?two stage called Double Stuff on Saturday.? Booster is an M-1800 staging to an M-1297.? If anyone is available to help me get it on the pad, contact me off list.? 

Jim




________________________________
From: Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com>
To: Greg Clark <bigredbee at gmail.com>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:07:50 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS? Raise your hand

Mike Wyvel, Dave Randall an I will arrive Wed and leave Monday. We're flying U4EA Monday morning.

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Clark <bigredbee at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:09 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS? Raise your hand

Are you going?? Speak up!
I'll be there -- arriving Thursday PM, Leaving Sunday PM.? I'll be vending,
so look for me near the flight line.

-- Greg
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 11 09:24:18 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:24:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>
	<200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> 
	<6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W11F41BCCC556AD66CA0863A6E70@phx.gbl>


I epoxy them in. Just don't screw them down tight. They should spin on the screw.
I haven't had to replace any yet.

 

Mark Lyons 
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:32:51 -0700
> From: dmrandall at gmail.com
> To: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
> 
> A related question....
> 
> Epoxy the screws in place, or just screw them in? The reason I ask is
> after only two flights, the buttons on my Excel Plus Plus booster are
> worn and look like they may need replacing after a few more flights.
> Other buttons have fared better, but I know that after epoxying them
> in to the centering rings, the only way they'll come out is to drill
> them out.
> 
> So, do folks always/never epoxy rail buttons in place?
> 
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_________________________________________________________________
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From dmrandall at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 09:33:20 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:33:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W11F41BCCC556AD66CA0863A6E70@phx.gbl>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>
	<200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU135-W11F41BCCC556AD66CA0863A6E70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909110933x4981e580k50f0c22ccfbc7508@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks all..

I've always epoxied (or CA) mine in.  But, I've ran into situations
where the ones I installed on the rocket didn't fit the rails, and
that meant having two sets of buttons.  I like the threaded insert
idea.  I'll have to consider that on my larger rockets.

Dave

From joebevier at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 09:39:34 2009
From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:39:34 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket
	Targeted for Sept. 10
In-Reply-To: <4AAA6D8F.5000709@earthlink.net>
References: <4983148.1251920856652.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB13@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<4AAA6D8F.5000709@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <45717540909110939g63778878v4beadb5dab254d4a@mail.gmail.com>

So check this link out for NASA videos of the test.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/multimedia/ares/dm1_success_vids.html
The first video is the mirror showing the ignition inside the top grain at
5000 frames per second -until the mirror gets vaporized.  The geometry looks
like the Finocyl grains Fred was working on.  I think it was awfully nice of
Fred to lend NASA and ATK an ex grain to help the test program!

Geez!  I'm supposed to be working right now.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Jack Hydrazine <jackhydrazine at earthlink.net
> wrote:

> NASA And ATK Test Ares First Stage Motor
>
> http://www.space-travel.com/reports/NASA_And_ATK_Test_Ares_First_Stage_Motor_999.html
>
>
>
> Schurke, Peter wrote:
>
>> My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.
>>
>> I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.
>>
>> As the folks at ATK explained it (Caveat:  they're the ones making the
>> stuff, so of course they have a ultra positive spin) they are combining the
>> "safest position for the astronauts" (capsule atop the stack) from the
>> Saturn design with the "flight proven element with big oomph" part derived
>> from the shuttle SRB.  They claim it's the "Safest design yet".
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent:
>> Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM
>> To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke, Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing
>> list; Hammer
>> Subject: [Possible SPAM] RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket
>> Targeted for Sept. 10
>> Importance: Low
>>
>> All grains?  Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the
>> funding hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this
>> is just a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.
>>
>> Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA
>> will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated
>> candles in general.  Thanks for the info Pete.  /Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>
>>> From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM
>>> To: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>, "
>>> steve-c at ix.netcom.com" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>, "sales at pvconly.com" <
>>> sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>,
>>> Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
>>> Sept.     10
>>>
>>> Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or
>>> the aft grain?
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:
>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
>>> To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list;
>>> Hammer
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
>>> Sept. 10
>>>
>>> According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not
>>> "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different
>>> propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're
>>> using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes
>>> we can't tell you about"
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:
>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
>>> To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted
>>> forSept. 10
>>>
>>> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the
>>> payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.
>>>  Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a
>>> smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB
>>> flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in learning more
>>> - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google?  /Steve
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: sales at pvconly.com
>>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <
>>>> hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for
>>>> Sept.     10
>>>>
>>>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is
>>>> working with NASA on the ARES motors.  The word is that there is a great
>>>> deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a
>>>> handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when
>>>> fired.
>>>>  Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors and
>>>> their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on
>>>> these modified SRBs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.
>>>> 10
>>>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>>>
>>>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I
>>>> rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor,
>>>> Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced
>>>> the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>>>
>>>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or
>>>> software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the
>>>> investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>>>
>>>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are
>>>> being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree
>>>> approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement
>>>> plans for potential suspect items."
>>>>
>>>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space
>>>> shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in
>>>> the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle
>>>> failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power
>>>> unit on the booster had failed.
>>>>
>>>> The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>>>
>>>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the
>>>> ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch
>>>> the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement
>>>> for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no
>>>> earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept,
>>>> called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
Joe

From carl20320 at msn.com  Fri Sep 11 09:48:06 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:48:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40909110933x4981e580k50f0c22ccfbc7508@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909110712i675b3fch8958fd3eaad9ee99@mail.gmail.com>
	<200.78378.qm@web110211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<6bc920e40909110832q681a0080hede33f4dc728a3ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU135-W11F41BCCC556AD66CA0863A6E70@phx.gbl> 
	<6bc920e40909110933x4981e580k50f0c22ccfbc7508@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL120-W462EF095F2551D7DD04521EAE70@phx.gbl>


On the Alpha 7, I used brass inserts in the centering rings.  I dap of Blue Loctite on the screw through the button and it is good to go. Buttons are easy to change then.  

 

As for buttons being worn out after only 2 launches?  I would be looking into the cause of that.  I haven't been flying that long but I have rockets with 12-15 launches and the buttons hardly look worn.


 
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:33:20 -0700
> From: dmrandall at gmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
> 
> Thanks all..
> 
> I've always epoxied (or CA) mine in. But, I've ran into situations
> where the ones I installed on the rocket didn't fit the rails, and
> that meant having two sets of buttons. I like the threaded insert
> idea. I'll have to consider that on my larger rockets.
> 
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From sb at berfield.com  Fri Sep 11 09:53:12 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:53:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket
 Targeted for Sept. 10
Message-ID: <200909111653.n8BGrEoq027096@omr2.networksolutionsemail.com>

My that's a big candle!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Hydrazine <jackhydrazine at earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:32 AM
Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10

NASA And ATK Test Ares First Stage Motor
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/NASA_And_ATK_Test_Ares_First_Stage_Motor_999.html



Schurke, Peter wrote:
> My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.
>
> I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.
>
> As the folks at ATK explained it (Caveat:  they're the ones making the stuff, so of course they have a ultra positive spin) they are combining the "safest position for the astronauts" (capsule atop the stack) from the Saturn design with the "flight proven element with big oomph" part derived from the shuttle SRB.  They claim it's the "Safest design yet".
>
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM
> To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke, Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
> Subject: [Possible SPAM] RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10
> Importance: Low
>
> All grains?  Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the funding hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this is just a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.
>
> Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated candles in general.  Thanks for the info Pete.  /Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
>   
>> From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM
>> To: "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>, "steve-c at ix.netcom.com" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>, "sales at pvconly.com" <sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>>
>> Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or the aft grain? 
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM
>> To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; 
>> Hammer
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for 
>> Sept. 10
>>
>> According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB.  They're using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes we can't tell you about"
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of 
>> steve-c at ix.netcom.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM
>> To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted 
>> forSept. 10
>>
>> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the 
>> payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.  
>> Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a 
>> smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle 
>> SRB flight data) cause for the concern?  I would be interested in 
>> learning more - any web links available or are we at the mercy of 
>> Google?  /Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>     
>>> From: sales at pvconly.com
>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM
>>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.	10
>>>
>>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is working with NASA on the ARES motors. 
>>>  
>>> The word is that there is a great deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when fired.
>>>  
>>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors and their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on these modified SRBs?
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 
>>> 10
>>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html
>>>
>>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor, Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.
>>>
>>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.
>>>
>>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement plans for potential suspect items."
>>>
>>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power unit on the booster had failed.
>>>
>>> The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.
>>>
>>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept, called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>  
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>  
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From sb at berfield.com  Fri Sep 11 09:53:17 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:53:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
Message-ID: <200909111653.n8BGrIBa027216@omr2.networksolutionsemail.com>

I usually drill and tap and put a drop of CA in the hole. If I can't hit a ring and am only in the tube, I use epoxy. Haven't ever tried to remove them though.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 8:32 AM
To: John Hornsby <jhornsby3 at yahoo.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?

A related question....

Epoxy the screws in place, or just screw them in?  The reason I ask is
after only two flights, the buttons on my Excel Plus Plus booster are
worn and look like they may need replacing after a few more flights.
Other buttons have fared better, but I know that after epoxying them
in to the centering rings, the only way they'll come out is to drill
them out.

So, do folks always/never epoxy rail buttons in place?

Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From sb at berfield.com  Fri Sep 11 10:47:48 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:47:48 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA
 Rocket	Targeted for Sept. 10
Message-ID: <W912291617243841252691268@webmail13>

Wow. 

2 questions - what would the advantage be of a single grain with the finned core design, and how much does a 5000 fps camera cost?

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bevier [mailto:joebevier at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 09:39 AM
To: 'Jack Hydrazine'
Cc: 'NW Rocketry mailing list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket	Targeted for Sept. 10

So check this link out for NASA videos of the test.http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/multimedia/ares/dm1_success_vids.htmlThe first video is the mirror showing the ignition inside the top grain at5000 frames per second -until the mirror gets vaporized. The geometry lookslike the Finocyl grains Fred was working on. I think it was awfully nice ofFred to lend NASA and ATK an ex grain to help the test program!Geez! I'm supposed to be working right now.On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Jack Hydrazine  wrote:> NASA And ATK Test Ares First Stage Motor>> http://www.space-travel.com/reports/NASA_And_ATK_Test_Ares_First_Stage_Motor_999.html>>>> Schurke, Peter wrote:>>> My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.>>>> I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.>>>> As the folks at ATK explained it (Caveat: they're the ones making the>> stuff, so of course they have a ultra positive spin) they are combining the>> "safest position for the astronauts" (capsule atop the stack) from the>> Saturn design with the "flight proven element with big oomph" part derived>> from the shuttle SRB. They claim it's the "Safest design yet".>>>> Pete>>>> -----Original Message----->> From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent:>> Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM>> To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke, Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing>> list; Hammer>> Subject: [Possible SPAM] RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket>> Targeted for Sept. 10>> Importance: Low>>>> All grains? Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the>> funding hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this>> is just a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.>>>> Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA>> will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated>> candles in general. Thanks for the info Pete. /Steve>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>>>> From: "Azinger, Fred" >>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM>>> To: "Schurke, Peter" , ">>> steve-c at ix.netcom.com" , "sales at pvconly.com" <>>> sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list ,>>> Hammer >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>> Sept. 10>>>>>> Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or>>> the aft grain?>>> -----Original Message----->>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM>>> To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list;>>> Hammer>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>> Sept. 10>>>>>> According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not>>> "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different>>> propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB. They're>>> using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes>>> we can't tell you about">>>>>> Pete>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM>>> To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted>>> forSept. 10>>>>>> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the>>> payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.>>> Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a>>> smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB>>> flight data) cause for the concern? I would be interested in learning more>>> - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google? /Steve>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>>>>>>> From: sales at pvconly.com>>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM>>>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list , Hammer <>>>> hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>>> Sept. 10>>>>>>>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is>>>> working with NASA on the ARES motors. The word is that there is a great>>>> deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a>>>> handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when>>>> fired.>>>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors and>>>> their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on>>>> these modified SRBs?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer  wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Hammer >>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.>>>> 10>>>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" >>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html>>>>>>>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I>>>> rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA and its contractor,>>>> Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced>>>> the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.>>>>>>>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or>>>> software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the>>>> investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.>>>>>>>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are>>>> being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree>>>> approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement>>>> plans for potential suspect items.">>>>>>>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space>>>> shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in>>>> the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle>>>> failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power>>>> unit on the booster had failed.>>>>>>>> The test will take place at ATK's facilities in Promontory, Utah.>>>>>>>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the>>>> ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch>>>> the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement>>>> for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no>>>> earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept,>>>> called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> Rockets mailing list>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> Rockets mailing list>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>> Rockets mailing list>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>> _______________________________________________>>> Rockets mailing list>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>> Rockets mailing list>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>-- Joe_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 

From fred.azinger at intel.com  Fri Sep 11 11:05:45 2009
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:05:45 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA
	Rocket	Targeted for Sept. 10
In-Reply-To: <W912291617243841252691268@webmail13>
References: <W912291617243841252691268@webmail13>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB595DA577@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

The more surface, the more pressure, the more thrust.
They want this thing to hop off the pad.
A top core with tons of surface is a good way to do this.

What a cool video.
Wish we could watch the grain burn too.
Would be nice to have a camera close to that capability.

We are test burning my Finocyl O-5500 with 5.75s burn tomorrow.
Hope to also test the sustainer's moonburner too....an M-700 with a 11+ second burn that will be lit using head-end ignition.

Hope to have video posted in the evening.
Stay tuned.
FredA







-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:48 AM
To: Joe Bevier; Jack Hydrazine
Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10

Wow. 

2 questions - what would the advantage be of a single grain with the finned core design, and how much does a 5000 fps camera cost?

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bevier [mailto:joebevier at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 09:39 AM
To: 'Jack Hydrazine'
Cc: 'NW Rocketry mailing list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket	Targeted for Sept. 10

So check this link out for NASA videos of the test.http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/multimedia/ares/dm1_success_vids.htmlThe first video is the mirror showing the ignition inside the top grain at5000 frames per second -until the mirror gets vaporized. The geometry lookslike the Finocyl grains Fred was working on. I think it was awfully nice ofFred to lend NASA and ATK an ex grain to help the test program!Geez! I'm supposed to be working right now.On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Jack Hydrazine  wrote:> NASA And ATK Test Ares First Stage Motor>> http://www.space-travel.com/reports/NASA_And_ATK_Test_Ares_First_Stage_Motor_999.html>>>> Schurke, Peter wrote:>>> My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.>>>> I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.>>>> As the folks at ATK explained it (Caveat: they're the ones making the>> stuff, so of course they have a ultra positive spin) they are combining the>> "safest position for the astronauts" (caps
 ule atop the stack) from the>> Saturn design with the "flight proven element with big oomph" part derived>> from the shuttle SRB. They claim it's the "Safest design yet".>>>> Pete>>>> -----Original Message----->> From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent:>> Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM>> To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke, Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing>> list; Hammer>> Subject: [Possible SPAM] RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket>> Targeted for Sept. 10>> Importance: Low>>>> All grains? Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the>> funding hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this>> is just a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.>>>> Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA>> will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated>> candles in general. Thanks for the info Pete. /Steve>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>>>> From
 : "Azinger, Fred" >>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM>>> To: "Schurke, Pet
er" , ">>> steve-c at ix.netcom.com" , "sales at pvconly.com" <>>> sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list ,>>> Hammer >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>> Sept. 10>>>>>> Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or>>> the aft grain?>>> -----Original Message----->>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM>>> To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list;>>> Hammer>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>> Sept. 10>>>>>> According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not>>> "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different>>> propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB. They're>>> using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes>>> we can't tell you about">>
 >>>> Pete>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM>>> To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted>>> forSept. 10>>>>>> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the>>> payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.>>> Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a>>> smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB>>> flight data) cause for the concern? I would be interested in learning more>>> - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google? /Steve>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>>>>>>> From: sales at pvconly.com>>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM>>>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list , Hammer <>>>> hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>>>>> Subj
 ect: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>>>
 Sept. 10>>>>>>>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is>>>> working with NASA on the ARES motors. The word is that there is a great>>>> deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a>>>> handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when>>>> fired.>>>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors and>>>> their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on>>>> these modified SRBs?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer  wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Hammer >>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.>>>> 10>>>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" >>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html>>>>>>>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I>>>> rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA a
 nd its contractor,>>>> Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced>>>> the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.>>>>>>>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or>>>> software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the>>>> investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.>>>>>>>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are>>>> being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree>>>> approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement>>>> plans for potential suspect items.">>>>>>>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space>>>> shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in>>>> the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle>>>> failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power>>>> unit on the 
 booster had failed.>>>>>>>> The test will take place at ATK's facilit
ies in Promontory, Utah.>>>>>>>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the>>>> ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch>>>> the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement>>>> for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no>>>> earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept,>>>> called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> Rockets mailing list>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> Rockets mailing list>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>> Rockets mailing list>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>> _____________________________________________
 __>>> Rockets mailing list>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>> Rockets mailing list>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>-- Joe_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From fred.azinger at intel.com  Fri Sep 11 11:50:48 2009
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:50:48 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket	Targeted for Sept.
	10
In-Reply-To: <4689C1A7CC4A604D9B0E30945F54E8CC1988FF70@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <W912291617243841252691268@webmail13>
	<4689C1A7CC4A604D9B0E30945F54E8CC1988FF70@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB595DA5D5@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

Sorry if this is duplicate -- the first post still had "possible SPAM" in the header and never appeared.

-----Original Message-----
From: Azinger, Fred 
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:06 AM
To: Scott Berfield; Joe Bevier; Jack Hydrazine
Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10

The more surface, the more pressure, the more thrust.
They want this thing to hop off the pad.
A top core with tons of surface is a good way to do this.

What a cool video.
Wish we could watch the grain burn too.
Would be nice to have a camera close to that capability.

We are test burning my Finocyl O-5500 with 5.75s burn tomorrow.
Hope to also test the sustainer's moonburner too....an M-700 with a 11+ second burn that will be lit using head-end ignition.

Hope to have video posted in the evening.
Stay tuned.
FredA







-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:48 AM
To: Joe Bevier; Jack Hydrazine
Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10

Wow. 

2 questions - what would the advantage be of a single grain with the finned core design, and how much does a 5000 fps camera cost?

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bevier [mailto:joebevier at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 09:39 AM
To: 'Jack Hydrazine'
Cc: 'NW Rocketry mailing list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA Rocket	Targeted for Sept. 10

So check this link out for NASA videos of the test.http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/multimedia/ares/dm1_success_vids.htmlThe first video is the mirror showing the ignition inside the top grain at5000 frames per second -until the mirror gets vaporized. The geometry lookslike the Finocyl grains Fred was working on. I think it was awfully nice ofFred to lend NASA and ATK an ex grain to help the test program!Geez! I'm supposed to be working right now.On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Jack Hydrazine  wrote:> NASA And ATK Test Ares First Stage Motor>> http://www.space-travel.com/reports/NASA_And_ATK_Test_Ares_First_Stage_Motor_999.html>>>> Schurke, Peter wrote:>>> My understanding was all grains contain the new formulation.>>>> I too have been bewildered by man-rated solids.>>>> As the folks at ATK explained it (Caveat: they're the ones making the>> stuff, so of course they have a ultra positive spin) they are combining the>> "safest position for the astronauts" (caps
 ule atop the stack) from the>> Saturn design with the "flight proven element with big oomph" part derived>> from the shuttle SRB. They claim it's the "Safest design yet".>>>> Pete>>>> -----Original Message----->> From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent:>> Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM>> To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke, Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing>> list; Hammer>> Subject: [Possible SPAM] RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket>> Targeted for Sept. 10>> Importance: Low>>>> All grains? Just thinking in terms of manufacturing process and the>> funding hoops represented - the segmented approach is very modular and this>> is just a guess again, but it extends to the chemistry part.>>>> Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst should gain a few points on ISP - NASA>> will squeeze whatever it can - I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated>> candles in general. Thanks for the info Pete. /Steve>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>>>> From
 : "Azinger, Fred" >>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM>>> To: "Schurke, Pet
er" , ">>> steve-c at ix.netcom.com" , "sales at pvconly.com" <>>> sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list ,>>> Hammer >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>> Sept. 10>>>>>> Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward grain or>>> the aft grain?>>> -----Original Message----->>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50 AM>>> To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list;>>> Hammer>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>> Sept. 10>>>>>> According to what the folks at ATK told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not>>> "just an SRB with a fifth segment stacked on top", it is a different>>> propellant formulation than they are using in the current SRB. They're>>> using a smaller particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes>>> we can't tell you about">>
 >>>> Pete>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:36 AM>>> To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list; Hammer>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted>>> forSept. 10>>>>>> I doubt they would be moderating the burn chemistry too much unless the>>> payload capability targets are compromised, but this is just a guess.>>> Regarding the instability, was this determined by testing (perhaps on a>>> smaller scale) or are the simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB>>> flight data) cause for the concern? I would be interested in learning more>>> - any web links available or are we at the mercy of Google? /Steve>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>>>>>>> From: sales at pvconly.com>>>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM>>>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list , Hammer <>>>> hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>>>>> Subj
 ect: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>>>
 Sept. 10>>>>>>>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor laboratory that is>>>> working with NASA on the ARES motors. The word is that there is a great>>>> deal of combustion instability occuring that the engineers do not yet have a>>>> handle on. The motor is currently on the verge of shaking itself apart when>>>> fired.>>>> Most EX fliers know the problems associated with long length motors and>>>> their errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used on>>>> these modified SRBs?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Hammer  wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Hammer >>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.>>>> 10>>>> To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" >>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58 AM>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html>>>>>>>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new Ares I>>>> rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA a
 nd its contractor,>>>> Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to investigate the glitch that forced>>>> the postponement of an earlier test, ATK said in a statement.>>>>>>>> Engineers have ruled out the possibility that booster hardware or>>>> software was at fault during the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the>>>> investigation has shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.>>>>>>>> "Specific suspect circuitry and components have been identified and are>>>> being methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault tree>>>> approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and replacement>>>> plans for potential suspect items.">>>>>>>> The $75 million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space>>>> shuttle's giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in>>>> the countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's nozzle>>>> failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an auxiliary power>>>> unit on the 
 booster had failed.>>>>>>>> The test will take place at ATK's facilit
ies in Promontory, Utah.>>>>>>>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage booster designed to use the>>>> ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a liquid-fueled upper stage to launch>>>> the new Orion crew-carrying spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement>>>> for its retiring space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no>>>> earlier than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept,>>>> called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> Rockets mailing list>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> Rockets mailing list>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>> Rockets mailing list>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>> _____________________________________________
 __>>> Rockets mailing list>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>> Rockets mailing list>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>-- Joe_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From jim at discountrocketry.com  Fri Sep 11 12:36:09 2009
From: jim at discountrocketry.com (Jim at Discount Rocketry)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:36:09 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA
	Rocket	Targeted for Sept. 10
In-Reply-To: <W912291617243841252691268@webmail13>
Message-ID: <88788A1C6A9840AFB0D73F049AECD25A@main>

A fin or star core controls the burn surface area without the addition
of end burning of individual bated grains.

In the case of the fin design on one or more grains, most likely it is
to have a higher liftoff thrust with a lower sustaining burn.

In bates grains the core and ends burn at the same time, so while the
core is getting bigger the length is getting shorter. This produces a
more even burn surface area throughout the motor burn. If you do not
have a bates grain configuration, then you need a shaped core otherwise
you will have a very progressive burn surface area which is not only
inefficient with a fixed nozzle size but not practical when rockets
usually need more thrust at liftoff.

Jim
Discount Rocketry

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:48 AM
To: Joe Bevier; Jack Hydrazine
Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA
Rocket Targeted for Sept. 10

Wow. 

2 questions - what would the advantage be of a single grain with the
finned core design, and how much does a 5000 fps camera cost?

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bevier [mailto:joebevier at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 09:39 AM
To: 'Jack Hydrazine'
Cc: 'NW Rocketry mailing list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [Possible SPAM] RE: Engine Test for New NASA
Rocket	Targeted for Sept. 10

So check this link out for NASA videos of the
test.http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/multimedia/ares/dm1
_success_vids.htmlThe first video is the mirror showing the ignition
inside the top grain at5000 frames per second -until the mirror gets
vaporized. The geometry lookslike the Finocyl grains Fred was working
on. I think it was awfully nice ofFred to lend NASA and ATK an ex grain
to help the test program!Geez! I'm supposed to be working right now.On
Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Jack Hydrazine  wrote:> NASA And ATK Test
Ares First Stage Motor>>
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/NASA_And_ATK_Test_Ares_First_Stage_M
otor_999.html>>>> Schurke, Peter wrote:>>> My understanding was all
grains contain the new formulation.>>>> I too have been bewildered by
man-rated solids.>>>> As the folks at ATK explained it (Caveat: they're
the ones making the>> stuff, so of course they have a ultra positive
spin) they are combining the>> "safest position for the astronauts"
(caps
 ule atop the stack) from the>> Saturn design with the "flight proven
element with big oomph" part derived>> from the shuttle SRB. They claim
it's the "Safest design yet".>>>> Pete>>>> -----Original Message----->>
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent:>>
Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:48 PM>> To: Azinger,Fred; Schurke,
Peter; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing>> list; Hammer>> Subject:
[Possible SPAM] RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket>>
Targeted for Sept. 10>> Importance: Low>>>> All grains? Just thinking in
terms of manufacturing process and the>> funding hoops represented - the
segmented approach is very modular and this>> is just a guess again, but
it extends to the chemistry part.>>>> Finer grade of iron oxide catalyst
should gain a few points on ISP - NASA>> will squeeze whatever it can -
I'm still in bewilderment about man-rated>> candles in general. Thanks
for the info Pete. /Steve>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>>>> From
 : "Azinger, Fred" >>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:53 AM>>> To: "Schurke, Pet
er" , ">>> steve-c at ix.netcom.com" , "sales at pvconly.com" <>>>
sales at pvconly.com>, NW Rocketry mailing list ,>>> Hammer >>> Subject:
RE: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>> Sept.
10>>>>>> Just to be clear -- is the new formulation used in the forward
grain or>>> the aft grain?>>> -----Original Message----->>> From:
rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:50
AM>>> To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com; sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing
list;>>> Hammer>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA
Rocket Targeted for>>> Sept. 10>>>>>> According to what the folks at ATK
told us on the tour, the DM-1 is not>>> "just an SRB with a fifth
segment stacked on top", it is a different>>> propellant formulation
than they are using in the current SRB. They're>>> using a smaller
particle size of Iron Oxide, and a "couple of other changes>>> we can't
tell you about">>
 >>>> Pete>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>> From:
rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02,
2009 8:36 AM>>> To: sales at pvconly.com; NW Rocketry mailing list;
Hammer>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket
Targeted>>> forSept. 10>>>>>> I doubt they would be moderating the burn
chemistry too much unless the>>> payload capability targets are
compromised, but this is just a guess.>>> Regarding the instability, was
this determined by testing (perhaps on a>>> smaller scale) or are the
simulations (factored from existing shuttle SRB>>> flight data) cause
for the concern? I would be interested in learning more>>> - any web
links available or are we at the mercy of Google? /Steve>>>>>>
-----Original Message----->>>>>>>>>> From: sales at pvconly.com>>>> Sent:
Sep 2, 2009 6:55 AM>>>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list , Hammer <>>>>
hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>>>>> Subj
 ect: Re: [RocketsNW] Engine Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for>>>>
 Sept. 10>>>>>>>> The University at Knoxville, TN has a solid motor
laboratory that is>>>> working with NASA on the ARES motors. The word is
that there is a great>>>> deal of combustion instability occuring that
the engineers do not yet have a>>>> handle on. The motor is currently on
the verge of shaking itself apart when>>>> fired.>>>> Most EX fliers
know the problems associated with long length motors and>>>> their
errosive burning characteristics. I wonder how much oxamide is used
on>>>> these modified SRBs?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09,
Hammer  wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Hammer >>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Engine
Test for New NASA Rocket Targeted for Sept.>>>> 10>>>> To: "NW Rocketry
mailing list" >>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:58
AM>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/090902-ares1-firststage-test.html>>
>>>>>> WASHINGTON - A test firing of the first stage motor of NASA's new
Ares I>>>> rocket will take place no earlier than Sept. 10 as NASA a
 nd its contractor,>>>> Alliant Techsystems (ATK), continue to
investigate the glitch that forced>>>> the postponement of an earlier
test, ATK said in a statement.>>>>>>>> Engineers have ruled out the
possibility that booster hardware or>>>> software was at fault during
the aborted Aug. 27 test, and the focus of the>>>> investigation has
shifted to ground test hardware, ATK said.>>>>>>>> "Specific suspect
circuitry and components have been identified and are>>>> being
methodically investigated, utilizing a systematic, detailed fault
tree>>>> approach," the company said. "The team is assessing removal and
replacement>>>> plans for potential suspect items.">>>>>>>> The $75
million test of the five-segment motor, based on the space>>>> shuttle's
giant solid-rocket boosters, was aborted with 20 seconds left in>>>> the
countdown Aug. 27 when a power system used to point the motor's
nozzle>>>> failed. Engineers initially suspected a fuel valve in an
auxiliary power>>>> unit on the 
 booster had failed.>>>>>>>> The test will take place at ATK's facilit
ies in Promontory, Utah.>>>>>>>> NASA's Ares I rocket is a two-stage
booster designed to use the>>>> ATK-built solid-fueled first stage and a
liquid-fueled upper stage to launch>>>> the new Orion crew-carrying
spacecraft into orbit. Orion, NASA's replacement>>>> for its retiring
space shuttles, is slated to begin operational flight no>>>> earlier
than 2015. The first test launch of the Ares I rocket concept,>>>>
called Ares I-X, is slated to lift off on Oct. 31.>>>>
_______________________________________________>>>> Rockets mailing
list>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>>
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>
_______________________________________________>>>> Rockets mailing
list>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>>
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________>>> Rockets mailing
list>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>
_____________________________________________
 __>>> Rockets mailing list>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>>
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________>> Rockets mailing list>>
Rockets at rocketsnw.com>>
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list>
Rockets at rocketsnw.com>
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>>--
Joe_______________________________________________Rockets mailing
listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rocke
ts 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From holdencurrency at comcast.net  Fri Sep 11 13:30:13 2009
From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:30:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging John Hawkins
Message-ID: <860620587.211231252701013679.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



Paging John Hawkins Call Chris Holden 253-961-3095 

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 14:00:40 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:00:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Level 1 Cert witnesses needed at Sheridan this weekend.
Message-ID: <e83b26700909111400j4cc5e561ya8c62eb1616e89d4@mail.gmail.com>

I am in need of a couple of witnesses and a a mentor for my level 1
certification attempt this weekend.  I will be araiving there some time
between 7 and 8 pm this evening and plan to be there all weekend.  I would
like to cert as soon as possible.  Anyone know what H power motors can be
used for certification?  I am a NAR member and have already bought one H128W
but I do not see it as a certified motor on the NAR website though it is
certified by Tripoli and CAR.  From what I saw on the NAR website there are
only 2 H power motors certified and they will make my rocket push close to
the waiver but the H128W keeps me down around 3-3500feet.

From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com  Fri Sep 11 14:18:28 2009
From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:18:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Level 1 Cert witnesses needed at Sheridan this
 weekend.
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909111400j4cc5e561ya8c62eb1616e89d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909111400j4cc5e561ya8c62eb1616e89d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F53688419E856136@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net>

The motor was tested and certified by TRA, and is perfectly acceptable for a NAR L1 certification flight.

	John Lyngdal
	NAR Trustee
	NAR Standards & Testing
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:01 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Level 1 Cert witnesses needed at Sheridan this weekend.

I am in need of a couple of witnesses and a a mentor for my level 1
certification attempt this weekend.  I will be araiving there some time
between 7 and 8 pm this evening and plan to be there all weekend.  I would
like to cert as soon as possible.  Anyone know what H power motors can be
used for certification?  I am a NAR member and have already bought one H128W
but I do not see it as a certified motor on the NAR website though it is
certified by Tripoli and CAR.  From what I saw on the NAR website there are
only 2 H power motors certified and they will make my rocket push close to
the waiver but the H128W keeps me down around 3-3500feet.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From greg at bigredbee.com  Fri Sep 11 14:16:41 2009
From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:16:41 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Level 1 Cert witnesses needed at Sheridan this
	weekend.
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909111400j4cc5e561ya8c62eb1616e89d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909111400j4cc5e561ya8c62eb1616e89d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf3fe8020909111416i100c7ef0i6c758fdef3511ec3@mail.gmail.com>

In case you want to cert TRA, I'll be there about noon on Saturday til about
5pm, and then all day Sunday.  I'll also have the L2 written tests for those
that would like to take that.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Christopher Guenther <
guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am in need of a couple of witnesses and a a mentor for my level 1
> certification attempt this weekend.  I will be araiving there some time
> between 7 and 8 pm this evening and plan to be there all weekend.  I would
> like to cert as soon as possible.  Anyone know what H power motors can be
> used for certification?  I am a NAR member and have already bought one
> H128W
> but I do not see it as a certified motor on the NAR website though it is
> certified by Tripoli and CAR.  From what I saw on the NAR website there are
> only 2 H power motors certified and they will make my rocket push close to
> the waiver but the H128W keeps me down around 3-3500feet.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Fri Sep 11 14:42:25 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:42:25 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
Message-ID: <8313690.1252705345385.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Dave,

I've had good success taking a set of GLR conformal rail guides and lopping off the guide feature leaving only the conformal bases.  I then bond the bases, drill and tap thru the base and airframe and forget about the epoxy - what you end up with is plenty of thread engagement for a robust mount on minimum diameter birds.  Lots more work, but worth the effort to allow interchanging buttons w/o significant compromise on aerodynamics.

/Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Randall <dmrandall at gmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 11, 2009 9:33 AM
>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
>
>Thanks all..
>
>I've always epoxied (or CA) mine in.  But, I've ran into situations
>where the ones I installed on the rocket didn't fit the rails, and
>that meant having two sets of buttons.  I like the threaded insert
>idea.  I'll have to consider that on my larger rockets.
>
>Dave
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From carl20320 at msn.com  Fri Sep 11 16:49:57 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:49:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <ccc.5af4d65e.37dc3b6a@aol.com>
References: <ccc.5af4d65e.37dc3b6a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <COL120-W120C8B2CBF28CA25499F7BEAE70@phx.gbl>


Mike,

I don't think that your launches compare to most of ours.  ;-)  I would have thought yours would jsut melt, if they stayed on at all.
 


From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:46:50 -0400
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
To: carl20320 at msn.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com


I've worn through a set from one launch.  Abraded all the way through to the screw.  Dirty rails and fast launches.
 
Mike F.
 

In a message dated 9/11/2009 9:48:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, carl20320 at msn.com writes:
As for buttons being worn out after only 2 launches?  I would be looking into the cause of that.  I haven't been flying that long but I have rockets with 12-15 launches and the buttons hardly look worn.

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Fri Sep 11 16:46:50 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:46:50 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling Rail Buttons?
Message-ID: <ccc.5af4d65e.37dc3b6a@aol.com>

I've worn through a set from one launch.  Abraded all the way through  to 
the screw.  Dirty rails and fast launches.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/11/2009 9:48:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
carl20320 at msn.com writes:

As for  buttons being worn out after only 2 launches?  I would be looking 
into  the cause of that.  I haven't been flying that long but I have rockets  
with 12-15 launches and the buttons hardly look  worn.



From stevet19759 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 11 21:24:05 2009
From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:24:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] official announcement - OregonRocketry Sheridan site
	update
Message-ID: <4AAB2265.2030600@comcast.net>

Due to the fire danger at the site, the Sheridan fire department has 
asked that we NOT allow any vehicles onto the field.  All parking will 
be on the dirt track next to the irrigation ditch along the south end
of the field.  Sorry, but you'll have to hand carry everything from 
there.  (You could try a wagon or garden cart, but the stubble field's 
pretty rough.  Better have big tires!)

We're still on - porta potties are in place - the launch equipment is 
set up, but PACK LIGHT, bring PLENTY OF WATER, and BRING MORE WATER.

The weather forecast looks excellent for Saturday but clouds on Sunday.
I expect to be handling a number of certification flights tomorrow!

-Steve Tarr (for Robert Krausert, who actually talked to the fire marshal.)




From jhadv at pacifier.com  Fri Sep 11 21:31:18 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.174.1252688013.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.174.1252688013.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <49240.209.253.79.135.1252729878.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com>

Uuuuh, how about an aluminum centering ring with a threaded hole?  No need
for CA or any other duct tape like solutions.  Torque on the threads keeps
the button solid during launch and the rail buttons can be replaced at
will with no problems.  I use lugless launchers myself but if I was using
buttons that is what I would do.


From jhadv at pacifier.com  Fri Sep 11 21:33:58 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:33:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] High resolution "cameras"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.176.1252695063.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.176.1252695063.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <49243.209.253.79.135.1252730038.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com>

"how much does a 5000 fps camera cost?"

First it's not a camera it's an instrument.  Further what resolution on
the image do you want?  Full color high resolution at 5,000 fps is
expensive.  However, 1,200 in full color with up to 20,000 fps in grey
scale is about 5 large.





From jhadv at pacifier.com  Fri Sep 11 22:14:59 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] DRAG RACE PICTURE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.179.1252705353.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.179.1252705353.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <49168.209.253.79.135.1252732499.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com>

I am an NAR member and they send me Sprocketry as part of my membership. 
In glancing through the September/October 2009 issue there is a picture on
page 10 titled, "The Wildman jr. drag race, all flying Cesaronni G69
Skidmark motors."  There were 10 rockets in that race.  Not a single one
flew straight.  I don't think CTI small diameter motors work so well when
the rocket in question has a high thrust to weight ratio.  I think a low
thrust to weight rocket successfully masks the effect.


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Fri Sep 11 22:22:31 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 01:22:31 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.
Message-ID: <d4c.4a252fa9.37dc8a17@aol.com>

The centering ring would have to be about 1/4" thick to hold the screw, and 
 custom machined to fit the motor tube OD and airframe ID.  For a 4"  
diameter rocket that one part would cost about $50.  And heavy.
 
They make these things called barrel nuts.  John Hornsby gave me some  a 
few years back.  They work well in non-minimum diameter rockets.   One 
drawback, you have to put them in when you are building the rocket, not  after it 
is all done.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/11/2009 9:48:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jhadv at pacifier.com writes:

Uuuuh,  how about an aluminum centering ring with a threaded hole?  No  need
for CA or any other duct tape like solutions.  Torque on the  threads keeps
the button solid during launch and the rail buttons can be  replaced at
will with no problems.  I use lugless launchers myself but  if I was using
buttons that is what I would  do.



From greg at bigredbee.com  Fri Sep 11 23:00:27 2009
From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:00:27 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] official announcement -
	OregonRocketry Sheridan site update
In-Reply-To: <4AAB2265.2030600@comcast.net>
References: <4AAB2265.2030600@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <bf3fe8020909112300q5a129d3y980fe0564f720ffb@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like a money making opportunity for some of our younger members!

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net> wrote:

> Due to the fire danger at the site, the Sheridan fire department has asked
> that we NOT allow any vehicles onto the field.  All parking will be on the
> dirt track next to the irrigation ditch along the south end
> of the field.  Sorry, but you'll have to hand carry everything from there.
>  (You could try a wagon or garden cart, but the stubble field's pretty
> rough.  Better have big tires!)
>
> We're still on - porta potties are in place - the launch equipment is set
> up, but PACK LIGHT, bring PLENTY OF WATER, and BRING MORE WATER.
>
> The weather forecast looks excellent for Saturday but clouds on Sunday.
> I expect to be handling a number of certification flights tomorrow!
>
> -Steve Tarr (for Robert Krausert, who actually talked to the fire marshal.)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> Members at oregonrocketry.org
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members
>

From davewalp at comcast.net  Sat Sep 12 07:22:31 2009
From: davewalp at comcast.net (David Walp)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:22:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acre Launch Sunday?
Message-ID: <003501ca33b4$774b64c0$65e22e40$@net>

Hi,

 

Is the 60 acres egg loft launch still on for Sunday?

 

September Skies (set) Egg Loft Duration, 13 September 2009 (tentative)
(sponsored by Roadside Hobbies)

 

I just want to alert rocketeers who plan to attend the September Skies
launch at 60 Acres Park that there will be an egg lofting contest you will
be able to compete in.  It will either be a duration or set duration. Rules
are as follows.

 

Motor class: C

Age Divisions: 12 and under (child), 13 and above (adult).

Open to single-staged model rockets that carry, as a totally enclosed
payload, one raw USDA Large hen's egg, with a mass of no less than 57 grams
and no more than 63 grams; and measuring no more than 45 millimeters in
diameter. The purpose of this competition is to carry an exceedingly fragile
payload for as long a time as possible and to recover the payload without
damage. The egg is intended to simulate (in

miniature) an astronaut, who must be properly cushioned and restrained to
withstand the forces of acceleration and the shock of landing. No material
may be affixed to the egg (e.g., glue or tape).  No catching of models is
allowed.

More info on NAR rules for egg lofting.  

http://www.nar.org/pinkbook/34_ELD.html

 

If the contest is simple duration fly your rocket and egg as many times as
you want using your best time.  The contestant (in their respective age
class) whose model achieves the longest duration for a single flight is the
winner.

If set duration is chosen two flight will be allowed.  The contestant (in
their respective age class) who gets closest to their predicted time wins.

 

 

Egg lofter plans

http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/BRB_contest/EggloftPlan/Eggloft.html

 

Tips on building an egg lofting rocket.

http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/BRB_contest/EggloftPlan/Eggloft.html

(more plans at bottom of page)

 

 

cheers,

_dave_

 


From jimnietmann at verizon.net  Sat Sep 12 08:14:46 2009
From: jimnietmann at verizon.net (Jim Nietmann)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 08:14:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] M-1297 Nozzles
Message-ID: <186842.1350.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does anyone know if an AT M-1297 can use a medusa nozzle?? After I loaded an M-1297 with a single throat nozzle into my second stage bird, the interstage coupler will not completely engage due to the nozzle length.? Aerotech's website seems to be down, and I haven't been able to check if they even make a shorter nozzle for that motor.

Jim

From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com  Sat Sep 12 23:23:11 2009
From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:23:11 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] DRAG RACE PICTURE
Message-ID: <bdd.5993a82c.37dde9cf@aol.com>

The reason they didn't fly straight was that they were underpowered.  Tim 
knows that but still ran the race anyways because why not he gets to sell 
more kits.  The Wildman Jr and PR Little Dog should not be flown on low to 
average thrust Gs.  They just weigh too much due to being overbuilt (all FG) for 
their diameter.  

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 13 05:48:49 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 05:48:49 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acre Launch Sunday?
In-Reply-To: <003501ca33b4$774b64c0$65e22e40$@net>
References: <003501ca33b4$774b64c0$65e22e40$@net>
Message-ID: <4AACEA31.9000804@earthlink.net>

Unfortunately rocket launches are postponed until after 31OCT09 due to 
the heavy soccer schedule and the moving of dirt on the south field.

Robert

David Walp wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  
>
> Is the 60 acres egg loft launch still on for Sunday?
>
>  
>
> September Skies (set) Egg Loft Duration, 13 September 2009 (tentative)
> (sponsored by Roadside Hobbies)
>
>  
>
> I just want to alert rocketeers who plan to attend the September Skies
> launch at 60 Acres Park that there will be an egg lofting contest you will
> be able to compete in.  It will either be a duration or set duration. Rules
> are as follows.
>
>  
>
> Motor class: C
>
> Age Divisions: 12 and under (child), 13 and above (adult).
>
> Open to single-staged model rockets that carry, as a totally enclosed
> payload, one raw USDA Large hen's egg, with a mass of no less than 57 grams
> and no more than 63 grams; and measuring no more than 45 millimeters in
> diameter. The purpose of this competition is to carry an exceedingly fragile
> payload for as long a time as possible and to recover the payload without
> damage. The egg is intended to simulate (in
>
> miniature) an astronaut, who must be properly cushioned and restrained to
> withstand the forces of acceleration and the shock of landing. No material
> may be affixed to the egg (e.g., glue or tape).  No catching of models is
> allowed.
>
> More info on NAR rules for egg lofting.  
>
> http://www.nar.org/pinkbook/34_ELD.html
>
>  
>
> If the contest is simple duration fly your rocket and egg as many times as
> you want using your best time.  The contestant (in their respective age
> class) whose model achieves the longest duration for a single flight is the
> winner.
>
> If set duration is chosen two flight will be allowed.  The contestant (in
> their respective age class) who gets closest to their predicted time wins.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Egg lofter plans
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/BRB_contest/EggloftPlan/Eggloft.html
>
>  
>
> Tips on building an egg lofting rocket.
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/BRB_contest/EggloftPlan/Eggloft.html
>
> (more plans at bottom of page)
>
>  
>
>  
>
> cheers,
>
> _dave_
>
>  
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   


From Simpsonclark at aol.com  Sun Sep 13 09:25:22 2009
From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:25:22 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.
Message-ID: <d56.3659872a.37de76f2@aol.com>

I agree, I think aluminum centering rings or bulkheads make the best  
anchors for rail buttons.  I have seen a lot of structural failures in HPR  as a 
result of continuing to apply model technology for motors that exceed many  
military power levels; not so much with rail buttons as with forward  
bulkheads.  I would suggest that such items can be sold inexpensively if  produced 
in quantity and that can be done because we have standard motor case  sizes 
and fairly standard tubes.  Additionally, such parts can frequently  be 
recovered and/or recycled.  We manage that with motor hardware and  aeropac 
retainers. 
-Robert
 
 
In a message dated 9/11/2009 9:48:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jhadv at pacifier.com writes:

Uuuuh,  how about an aluminum centering ring with a threaded hole?  No  need
for CA or any other duct tape like solutions.  Torque on the  threads keeps
the button solid during launch and the rail buttons can be  replaced at
will with no problems.  I use lugless launchers myself but  if I was using
buttons that is what I would  do.

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From scott at scottsrockets.com  Sun Sep 13 14:06:15 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:06:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.
In-Reply-To: <d56.3659872a.37de76f2@aol.com>
References: <d56.3659872a.37de76f2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9D62EA1562A445FD91F089635C919FE7@Mobile2>

Motors should not be pushing against your forward bulkhead.

I agree aluminum rings would be ok, although plywood ounce for ounce is
likely comparable in strength. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Simpsonclark at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:25 AM
To: jhadv at pacifier.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.

I agree, I think aluminum centering rings or bulkheads make the best anchors
for rail buttons.  I have seen a lot of structural failures in HPR  as a
result of continuing to apply model technology for motors that exceed many
military power levels; not so much with rail buttons as with forward
bulkheads.  I would suggest that such items can be sold inexpensively if
produced in quantity and that can be done because we have standard motor
case  sizes and fairly standard tubes.  Additionally, such parts can
frequently  be recovered and/or recycled.  We manage that with motor
hardware and  aeropac retainers. 
-Robert
 
 
In a message dated 9/11/2009 9:48:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jhadv at pacifier.com writes:

Uuuuh,  how about an aluminum centering ring with a threaded hole?  No  need
for CA or any other duct tape like solutions.  Torque on the  threads keeps
the button solid during launch and the rail buttons can be  replaced at will
with no problems.  I use lugless launchers myself but  if I was using
buttons that is what I would  do.

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Sun Sep 13 15:44:35 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:44:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Walston on eBay.
Message-ID: <9FD34CA524B14FB2870BF6F4FFCEDD73@Mobile2>

Good deal, item # 190334873073
 
Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 
 
 

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 17:24:17 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:24:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report
Message-ID: <27B103DE1442495FA7F0125B56D8A4DB@LaptopKrausert>

Sheridan Report 2009

Want to start off by saying thank you everyone for an enjoyable and memorable weekend. Your participation and attendance are what makes an event like this such much more the reason why to come back again each year. I'm rewarded when you and your kids smile and go "Wow" each time a rocket flies. I know we contributed to the NAR "Pay it Forward" objective, and bringing enthusiasm to our youth - our future. TRA is also proud of our effort promoting the sport of rocketry, as well. Without the support of TRA and NAR, we'd not have the privileges we have today. No politics in this report, I promise. But, we are the ones to enable and inspire the next generation into an exciting future. It's great to see so many young flyers at this event, and the level of support they receive. From everyone. 

I'm not ignoring the BAR folks. Everyone at the launch; young and old, new and long time, I hope this launch was enjoyable and successful for you, and you'll join us again at futures OregonRocketry events.

We had approximately 186 people at the event this year, plus or minus a few. This years event held a special last minute requirement by the land owner and fire marshall to not drive onto the field. The scalped wheat field was a fire hazard and concerned many. This request came late Friday. Many that arrived Saturday were accepting of these changes. Even though it meant packing in your supplies and equipment. Appeared everyone kept their spirits up and accepted the change. Certainly something I'm sorry that happened. But something that occured last minute and out of the clubs control. The Sharf's allow us the use of their land once per year, and we truly appreciate that and something most other land onwers would never consider. We, OregonRocketry, have something great and would never want to risk losing it. Thank you to the Sharf's for the privilege of using the land to hold such a great and popular event.

I'd like to send a big thank you to Joe Bevier for bringing the trailer out Thursday and helping to unload it. I'd like to thank Tim Ryerse and Keith Packard for helping with setup Friday Morning. Again, thank you Joe Bevier for hauling the trailer after the event.

Want to thank Gary Fillible and Paul Bogdanich for the long hours covering LCO duties. Thank you both so much. 

Want to thank Mary Ann Ryerse, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Ken McGoffin for all your hard work at the registration table and Flight Safety Officer table. What an amaing job you did. If I missed someone, thank you too. It seemed like a very busy place throughout the day. 

Want to thank Steve Tarr and George Rachor for NAR certifications and Greg Clark for TRA certifications. Special thank you to Steve Tarr for helping new members with questions, advice, etc. 

Dallas Scout Troop 288, take a bow. This year we had cooked food available. Hamburgers, hot dogs, corn, and so much more. The sauerkraut, fresh chopped onions, etc filled the air. I heard comments from many that they'd not touched the food they brought because Troop 288's food was so good. Truly appreciate you being there and offering the event good eats and keeping tummies happy... ;-) You're welcome back any time. 

I know I missed too many. Thank you Tim Ryerse and John Lyngdal for the morning coffee. Thank you John Hornsby and Mark Dunkle for helping to hail equipment up and back from the launch site for visitors. 

We did hold several drawings on Saturday for prizes. Thank you to Sunriver Bob, Mike with Binder Design, and Clark co.4H for the prizes. One kit from Clark co. 4H, 2 kits and $40 gift card with Sunriver, and built Samurai from Binder Design. Our grand prize was the Binder Design Samurai, built and painted - a very cool 6+ feet tall rocket. The winner was a young man, guessing 5 years old, and the rocket looked like about 3 times the winners current height. The young man's smile was wide walking away when trying to lift/hold on to it. And I was teared seeing the smile. Congratulations to all the winners!!! 

Paul Bogdanich flew Dave Connet's rocket on a G79W because Dave couldn't attend. Thank you Paul. Dave, we all wish fast healing and hope to see you at meetings and launches soon. Follow the doctors' orders and we'll see you soon to BS again.

To Tom Schramm's family... Thank you for joining us for the launch. Deeply apologize to Henry that the night launch was canceled. I know how much Henry and many others were looking forward to it. It was a hard choice. Because of range and fire conditions, the closing of launches at 6pm was a decision I had to make. I know I didn't make people happy. It was my decision only to close at 6pm, and I think the correct one. It was great to watch Tim Ryerse and your two kids review rockets and their fun running with a chute. Tom, you realize that they'll want more? See you at Wilsonville and Brothers launches. ;-) 

I do not have the flight data yet. I'm holding Saturday's cards, and looks like 250-300 flights. I'll send once they've been counted. Estimate 400ish launches for the weekend.

Before I close... Congratulations to Tim Ryerse on your level 2 certification under TRA. Job well done. Get out the credit card. 

Many learnings and improvements for future launches. But not in this report.

Great weekend, end report.

Cheers,
Robert
OROC President

From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 18:04:04 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:04:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report
In-Reply-To: <27B103DE1442495FA7F0125B56D8A4DB@LaptopKrausert>
References: <27B103DE1442495FA7F0125B56D8A4DB@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <716406.53248.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I want to take the time to say thank you very much to Robert, Steve, Gary and all the others that made this launch possible. It was fun to go to this launch this year. Letting us camp out was fun and very relaxing. Even though I flew not a single rocket, we had a great time. 

Again thank you very much.

The Hornsby Family
John, April, Trenton, Abby




________________________________
From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:24:17 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report

Sheridan Report 2009

Want to start off by saying thank you everyone for an enjoyable and memorable weekend. Your participation and attendance are what makes an event like this such much more the reason why to come back again each year. I'm rewarded when you and your kids smile and go "Wow" each time a rocket flies. I know we contributed to the NAR "Pay it Forward" objective, and bringing enthusiasm to our youth - our future. TRA is also proud of our effort promoting the sport of rocketry, as well. Without the support of TRA and NAR, we'd not have the privileges we have today. No politics in this report, I promise. But, we are the ones to enable and inspire the next generation into an exciting future. It's great to see so many young flyers at this event, and the level of support they receive. From everyone. 

I'm not ignoring the BAR folks. Everyone at the launch; young and old, new and long time, I hope this launch was enjoyable and successful for you, and you'll join us again at futures OregonRocketry events.

We had approximately 186 people at the event this year, plus or minus a few. This years event held a special last minute requirement by the land owner and fire marshall to not drive onto the field. The scalped wheat field was a fire hazard and concerned many. This request came late Friday. Many that arrived Saturday were accepting of these changes. Even though it meant packing in your supplies and equipment. Appeared everyone kept their spirits up and accepted the change. Certainly something I'm sorry that happened. But something that occured last minute and out of the clubs control. The Sharf's allow us the use of their land once per year, and we truly appreciate that and something most other land onwers would never consider. We, OregonRocketry, have something great and would never want to risk losing it. Thank you to the Sharf's for the privilege of using the land to hold such a great and popular event.

I'd like to send a big thank you to Joe Bevier for bringing the trailer out Thursday and helping to unload it. I'd like to thank Tim Ryerse and Keith Packard for helping with setup Friday Morning. Again, thank you Joe Bevier for hauling the trailer after the event.

Want to thank Gary Fillible and Paul Bogdanich for the long hours covering LCO duties. Thank you both so much. 

Want to thank Mary Ann Ryerse, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Ken McGoffin for all your hard work at the registration table and Flight Safety Officer table. What an amaing job you did. If I missed someone, thank you too. It seemed like a very busy place throughout the day. 

Want to thank Steve Tarr and George Rachor for NAR certifications and Greg Clark for TRA certifications. Special thank you to Steve Tarr for helping new members with questions, advice, etc. 

Dallas Scout Troop 288, take a bow. This year we had cooked food available. Hamburgers, hot dogs, corn, and so much more. The sauerkraut, fresh chopped onions, etc filled the air. I heard comments from many that they'd not touched the food they brought because Troop 288's food was so good. Truly appreciate you being there and offering the event good eats and keeping tummies happy... ;-) You're welcome back any time. 

I know I missed too many. Thank you Tim Ryerse and John Lyngdal for the morning coffee. Thank you John Hornsby and Mark Dunkle for helping to hail equipment up and back from the launch site for visitors. 

We did hold several drawings on Saturday for prizes. Thank you to Sunriver Bob, Mike with Binder Design, and Clark co.4H for the prizes. One kit from Clark co. 4H, 2 kits and $40 gift card with Sunriver, and built Samurai from Binder Design. Our grand prize was the Binder Design Samurai, built and painted - a very cool 6+ feet tall rocket. The winner was a young man, guessing 5 years old, and the rocket looked like about 3 times the winners current height. The young man's smile was wide walking away when trying to lift/hold on to it. And I was teared seeing the smile. Congratulations to all the winners!!! 

Paul Bogdanich flew Dave Connet's rocket on a G79W because Dave couldn't attend. Thank you Paul. Dave, we all wish fast healing and hope to see you at meetings and launches soon. Follow the doctors' orders and we'll see you soon to BS again.

To Tom Schramm's family... Thank you for joining us for the launch. Deeply apologize to Henry that the night launch was canceled. I know how much Henry and many others were looking forward to it. It was a hard choice. Because of range and fire conditions, the closing of launches at 6pm was a decision I had to make. I know I didn't make people happy. It was my decision only to close at 6pm, and I think the correct one. It was great to watch Tim Ryerse and your two kids review rockets and their fun running with a chute. Tom, you realize that they'll want more? See you at Wilsonville and Brothers launches. ;-) 

I do not have the flight data yet. I'm holding Saturday's cards, and looks like 250-300 flights. I'll send once they've been counted. Estimate 400ish launches for the weekend.

Before I close... Congratulations to Tim Ryerse on your level 2 certification under TRA. Job well done. Get out the credit card. 

Many learnings and improvements for future launches. But not in this report.

Great weekend, end report.

Cheers,
Robert
OROC President
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 18:08:11 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.
In-Reply-To: <d4c.4a252fa9.37dc8a17@aol.com>
References: <d4c.4a252fa9.37dc8a17@aol.com>
Message-ID: <609117.43571.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

MIke,

I have more if you need em. Found some more when going through things.

John




________________________________
From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
To: jhadv at pacifier.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:22:31 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.

The centering ring would have to be about 1/4" thick to hold the screw, and 
custom machined to fit the motor tube OD and airframe ID.? For a 4"? 
diameter rocket that one part would cost about $50.? And heavy.

They make these things called barrel nuts.? John Hornsby gave me some? a 
few years back.? They work well in non-minimum diameter rockets.? One 
drawback, you have to put them in when you are building the rocket, not? after it 
is all done.

Mike F.


In a message dated 9/11/2009 9:48:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,? 
jhadv at pacifier.com writes:

Uuuuh,? how about an aluminum centering ring with a threaded hole?? No? need
for CA or any other duct tape like solutions.? Torque on the? threads keeps
the button solid during launch and the rail buttons can be? replaced at
will with no problems.? I use lugless launchers myself but? if I was using
buttons that is what I would? do.


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep 13 18:35:14 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:35:14 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.
Message-ID: <cff.5f50bf1e.37def7d2@aol.com>

I disagree.  
 
We used to stock aluminum back-plates for 4" diameter rockets, basically a  
rear centering ring made from aluminum less than a third as thick as you 
would  need to make a threaded ring that would hold a button screw.  We 
ordered  100 of them and they were still expensive.  We had to retail them at $20  
ea. and they took over eight years to sell most of them, but I still have a 
few  to this day.  If nobody wants to buy a $20 centering ring, you'd be 
hard  pressed to get rid of them.
 
Just the 1/4" aluminum plate is expensive, even from the scrap yard.   Add 
in the machining which will exceed the cost of the aluminum.  Even if  you 
didn't add in profit margin it would be more than most people would want to  
pay.
 
I do agree about spending the money if you are looking at military type  
performance, in which case you won't be using buttons anyway.  Those  rockets 
will launch from a tower.  Performance minded flyers will not  choose heavy 
centering rings over some light barrel nuts or T-nuts mounted  inside the 
airframe.  Look to BALLS for examples of precedent regarding  performance 
flights.  Most of those flights are trying to shave off the  most excess weight 
and drag as possible.
 
Just my opinion, by all means, feel free to make up a bunch and let the  
consumer decide. :)
 
Mike Fisher
Binder Design
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/13/2009 9:55:09 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
Simpsonclark at aol.com writes:

I would  suggest that such items can be sold inexpensively if  produced 
in  quantity and that can be done because we have standard motor case  
sizes  
and fairly standard  tubes. 


From stefan_jones at comcast.net  Sun Sep 13 19:17:14 2009
From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (stefan_jones at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 02:17:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report
In-Reply-To: <716406.53248.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <383778320.807151252894634295.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

A special shout out should go to those who performed the emergency button transplant on the low-power launch system. 




From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 19:59:57 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:59:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report
References: <383778320.807151252894634295.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FCBB3D3260154546B5458C9D173700CE@LaptopKrausert>

Agreed. Button came from my 6-way controller. I removed it. But Steve, Paul, 
and Keith did the repair. Paul did a steller job troubleshooting and getting 
Vaughn Bro's button installed. Job well done!!!

Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <stefan_jones at comcast.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report


>A special shout out should go to those who performed the emergency button 
>transplant on the low-power launch system.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 20:18:55 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:18:55 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report
Message-ID: <9A0EC7DD01D44C60A437DD17F8FD7863@LaptopKrausert>

Correction. One of the kit prizes came from Polk county 4H group, not Clark. Thank you Polk 4H.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:24 PM
  Subject: OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report


  Sheridan Report 2009

  Want to start off by saying thank you everyone for an enjoyable and memorable weekend. Your participation and attendance are what makes an event like this such much more the reason why to come back again each year. I'm rewarded when you and your kids smile and go "Wow" each time a rocket flies. I know we contributed to the NAR "Pay it Forward" objective, and bringing enthusiasm to our youth - our future. TRA is also proud of our effort promoting the sport of rocketry, as well. Without the support of TRA and NAR, we'd not have the privileges we have today. No politics in this report, I promise. But, we are the ones to enable and inspire the next generation into an exciting future. It's great to see so many young flyers at this event, and the level of support they receive. From everyone. 

  I'm not ignoring the BAR folks. Everyone at the launch; young and old, new and long time, I hope this launch was enjoyable and successful for you, and you'll join us again at futures OregonRocketry events.

  We had approximately 186 people at the event this year, plus or minus a few. This years event held a special last minute requirement by the land owner and fire marshall to not drive onto the field. The scalped wheat field was a fire hazard and concerned many. This request came late Friday. Many that arrived Saturday were accepting of these changes. Even though it meant packing in your supplies and equipment. Appeared everyone kept their spirits up and accepted the change. Certainly something I'm sorry that happened. But something that occured last minute and out of the clubs control. The Sharf's allow us the use of their land once per year, and we truly appreciate that and something most other land onwers would never consider. We, OregonRocketry, have something great and would never want to risk losing it. Thank you to the Sharf's for the privilege of using the land to hold such a great and popular event.

  I'd like to send a big thank you to Joe Bevier for bringing the trailer out Thursday and helping to unload it. I'd like to thank Tim Ryerse and Keith Packard for helping with setup Friday Morning. Again, thank you Joe Bevier for hauling the trailer after the event.

  Want to thank Gary Fillible and Paul Bogdanich for the long hours covering LCO duties. Thank you both so much. 

  Want to thank Mary Ann Ryerse, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Ken McGoffin for all your hard work at the registration table and Flight Safety Officer table. What an amaing job you did. If I missed someone, thank you too. It seemed like a very busy place throughout the day. 

  Want to thank Steve Tarr and George Rachor for NAR certifications and Greg Clark for TRA certifications. Special thank you to Steve Tarr for helping new members with questions, advice, etc. 

  Dallas Scout Troop 288, take a bow. This year we had cooked food available. Hamburgers, hot dogs, corn, and so much more. The sauerkraut, fresh chopped onions, etc filled the air. I heard comments from many that they'd not touched the food they brought because Troop 288's food was so good. Truly appreciate you being there and offering the event good eats and keeping tummies happy... ;-) You're welcome back any time. 

  I know I missed too many. Thank you Tim Ryerse and John Lyngdal for the morning coffee. Thank you John Hornsby and Mark Dunkle for helping to hail equipment up and back from the launch site for visitors. 

  We did hold several drawings on Saturday for prizes. Thank you to Sunriver Bob, Mike with Binder Design, and Clark co.4H for the prizes. One kit from Clark co. 4H, 2 kits and $40 gift card with Sunriver, and built Samurai from Binder Design. Our grand prize was the Binder Design Samurai, built and painted - a very cool 6+ feet tall rocket. The winner was a young man, guessing 5 years old, and the rocket looked like about 3 times the winners current height. The young man's smile was wide walking away when trying to lift/hold on to it. And I was teared seeing the smile. Congratulations to all the winners!!! 

  Paul Bogdanich flew Dave Connet's rocket on a G79W because Dave couldn't attend. Thank you Paul. Dave, we all wish fast healing and hope to see you at meetings and launches soon. Follow the doctors' orders and we'll see you soon to BS again.

  To Tom Schramm's family... Thank you for joining us for the launch. Deeply apologize to Henry that the night launch was canceled. I know how much Henry and many others were looking forward to it. It was a hard choice. Because of range and fire conditions, the closing of launches at 6pm was a decision I had to make. I know I didn't make people happy. It was my decision only to close at 6pm, and I think the correct one. It was great to watch Tim Ryerse and your two kids review rockets and their fun running with a chute. Tom, you realize that they'll want more? See you at Wilsonville and Brothers launches. ;-) 

  I do not have the flight data yet. I'm holding Saturday's cards, and looks like 250-300 flights. I'll send once they've been counted. Estimate 400ish launches for the weekend.

  Before I close... Congratulations to Tim Ryerse on your level 2 certification under TRA. Job well done. Get out the credit card. 

  Many learnings and improvements for future launches. But not in this report.

  Great weekend, end report.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  OROC President

From stevet19759 at comcast.net  Sun Sep 13 20:38:00 2009
From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:38:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report
In-Reply-To: <27B103DE1442495FA7F0125B56D8A4DB@LaptopKrausert>
References: <27B103DE1442495FA7F0125B56D8A4DB@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <4AADBA98.9040606@comcast.net>

I'll second all of this and add a special thank-you to James Doherty, 
who spent many hours at the LCO table Sunday.

We finished off Sunday in typical fashion - as we started to wrap things 
up for the day, the cold, windy cloudy weather turned clear, warm and 
(pretty) quiet for just long enough to get off three good high-power 
flights, including 1 cert.

Great launch, everybody.  We'll try to make contact with Jay Scharf a 
little earlier next year so we can be better prepared for the field and 
crop conditions.

My stats: two L1 certs and an L2 exam passed this weekend.  I know 
several others were hoping to certify on Sunday and couldn't because of 
the low cloud ceiling.  Thanks for your patience and please try again at 
one of the OROC or BORG launches.

-Steve Tarr


Robert Krausert wrote:
> Sheridan Report 2009
> 
> Want to start off by saying thank you everyone for an enjoyable and memorable weekend. Your participation and attendance are what makes an event like this such much more the reason why to come back again each year. I'm rewarded when you and your kids smile and go "Wow" each time a rocket flies. I know we contributed to the NAR "Pay it Forward" objective, and bringing enthusiasm to our youth - our future. TRA is also proud of our effort promoting the sport of rocketry, as well. Without the support of TRA and NAR, we'd not have the privileges we have today. No politics in this report, I promise. But, we are the ones to enable and inspire the next generation into an exciting future. It's great to see so many young flyers at this event, and the level of support they receive. From everyone. 
> 
> I'm not ignoring the BAR folks. Everyone at the launch; young and old, new and long time, I hope this launch was enjoyable and successful for you, and you'll join us again at futures OregonRocketry events.
> 
> We had approximately 186 people at the event this year, plus or minus a few. This years event held a special last minute requirement by the land owner and fire marshall to not drive onto the field. The scalped wheat field was a fire hazard and concerned many. This request came late Friday. Many that arrived Saturday were accepting of these changes. Even though it meant packing in your supplies and equipment. Appeared everyone kept their spirits up and accepted the change. Certainly something I'm sorry that happened. But something that occured last minute and out of the clubs control. The Sharf's allow us the use of their land once per year, and we truly appreciate that and something most other land onwers would never consider. We, OregonRocketry, have something great and would never want to risk losing it. Thank you to the Sharf's for the privilege of using the land to hold such a great and popular event.
> 
> I'd like to send a big thank you to Joe Bevier for bringing the trailer out Thursday and helping to unload it. I'd like to thank Tim Ryerse and Keith Packard for helping with setup Friday Morning. Again, thank you Joe Bevier for hauling the trailer after the event.
> 
> Want to thank Gary Fillible and Paul Bogdanich for the long hours covering LCO duties. Thank you both so much. 
> 
> Want to thank Mary Ann Ryerse, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Ken McGoffin for all your hard work at the registration table and Flight Safety Officer table. What an amaing job you did. If I missed someone, thank you too. It seemed like a very busy place throughout the day. 
> 
> Want to thank Steve Tarr and George Rachor for NAR certifications and Greg Clark for TRA certifications. Special thank you to Steve Tarr for helping new members with questions, advice, etc. 
> 
> Dallas Scout Troop 288, take a bow. This year we had cooked food available. Hamburgers, hot dogs, corn, and so much more. The sauerkraut, fresh chopped onions, etc filled the air. I heard comments from many that they'd not touched the food they brought because Troop 288's food was so good. Truly appreciate you being there and offering the event good eats and keeping tummies happy... ;-) You're welcome back any time. 
> 
> I know I missed too many. Thank you Tim Ryerse and John Lyngdal for the morning coffee. Thank you John Hornsby and Mark Dunkle for helping to hail equipment up and back from the launch site for visitors. 
> 
> We did hold several drawings on Saturday for prizes. Thank you to Sunriver Bob, Mike with Binder Design, and Clark co.4H for the prizes. One kit from Clark co. 4H, 2 kits and $40 gift card with Sunriver, and built Samurai from Binder Design. Our grand prize was the Binder Design Samurai, built and painted - a very cool 6+ feet tall rocket. The winner was a young man, guessing 5 years old, and the rocket looked like about 3 times the winners current height. The young man's smile was wide walking away when trying to lift/hold on to it. And I was teared seeing the smile. Congratulations to all the winners!!! 
> 
> Paul Bogdanich flew Dave Connet's rocket on a G79W because Dave couldn't attend. Thank you Paul. Dave, we all wish fast healing and hope to see you at meetings and launches soon. Follow the doctors' orders and we'll see you soon to BS again.
> 
> To Tom Schramm's family... Thank you for joining us for the launch. Deeply apologize to Henry that the night launch was canceled. I know how much Henry and many others were looking forward to it. It was a hard choice. Because of range and fire conditions, the closing of launches at 6pm was a decision I had to make. I know I didn't make people happy. It was my decision only to close at 6pm, and I think the correct one. It was great to watch Tim Ryerse and your two kids review rockets and their fun running with a chute. Tom, you realize that they'll want more? See you at Wilsonville and Brothers launches. ;-) 
> 
> I do not have the flight data yet. I'm holding Saturday's cards, and looks like 250-300 flights. I'll send once they've been counted. Estimate 400ish launches for the weekend.
> 
> Before I close... Congratulations to Tim Ryerse on your level 2 certification under TRA. Job well done. Get out the credit card. 
> 
> Many learnings and improvements for future launches. But not in this report.
> 
> Great weekend, end report.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> OROC President
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 


From davewalp at comcast.net  Sun Sep 13 21:15:06 2009
From: davewalp at comcast.net (David Walp)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:15:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
Message-ID: <008301ca34f1$f16e97c0$d44bc740$@net>

Hi,

 

Two newbie questions:

 

1) How are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain?  I believed with Estes
black powder engines you are suppose to soak them in water.   A few weeks
ago a casing from a single use E30-7 failed on the pad.  One of the pieces
picked up off on the ground was the unspent grain.  Aerotech says the
warrantee replacement is in the mail. 

 

2) We tried using our brand new RMS-29/40-120 motor today.  The reload was a
F22-7J.  The copperhead igniter that came with the reload was used.  We
believed that followed the instructions exactly - it was our first time.
The igniter was pushed up against the masking tape that was over the forward
end of the grain.  Unfortunately although the igniter burned, the motor did
not ignite.   We tried it with a second igniter from a different reload but
got same results.  Any ideas what could have gone wrong?

 

thank you,

_dave_

 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 21:56:17 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:56:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>
Message-ID: <A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>

>84 subscribers are screwed.

Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my 
balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years for me. 
Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish complaints 
or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but not 
well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with a 
balance are expected to get over it.

Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher. 
Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to anyone 
that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story. Maybe 
Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in this 
area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek" <absworld at cet.com>
To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry


> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
>
> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
>
> Bob Yanecek
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
> To: Rockets NW list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
>
> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know of
> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carl
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 22:01:13 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:01:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
References: <008301ca34f1$f16e97c0$d44bc740$@net>
Message-ID: <C70E03C9A0B74E6CA11AF418F238902F@LaptopKrausert>

1. water, but why? Water works to kill AP; all mourn.
2. copperheads need to be mastered. I have never used one, for many reasons.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Walp" <davewalp at comcast.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question


> Hi,
>
>
>
> Two newbie questions:
>
>
>
> 1) How are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain?  I believed with 
> Estes
> black powder engines you are suppose to soak them in water.   A few weeks
> ago a casing from a single use E30-7 failed on the pad.  One of the pieces
> picked up off on the ground was the unspent grain.  Aerotech says the
> warrantee replacement is in the mail.
>
>
>
> 2) We tried using our brand new RMS-29/40-120 motor today.  The reload was 
> a
> F22-7J.  The copperhead igniter that came with the reload was used.  We
> believed that followed the instructions exactly - it was our first time.
> The igniter was pushed up against the masking tape that was over the 
> forward
> end of the grain.  Unfortunately although the igniter burned, the motor 
> did
> not ignite.   We tried it with a second igniter from a different reload 
> but
> got same results.  Any ideas what could have gone wrong?
>
>
>
> thank you,
>
> _dave_
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep 13 22:14:27 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 01:14:27 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
Message-ID: <c44.30dc611d.37df2b33@aol.com>

Burn it in a remote area.  Do not soak in water.  AP is water  soluble and 
the water would have to be disposed of in an environmentally  friendly way, 
not down the drain or on the ground. 
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/13/2009 9:55:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
davewalp at comcast.net writes:

1) How  are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain?  


From rcdm at outlawnet.com  Sun Sep 13 23:00:28 2009
From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:00:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
References: <008301ca34f1$f16e97c0$d44bc740$@net>
Message-ID: <76C2F6987C034BDDB41C07E923D7B622@DANE>

The Blackjack propellant seems to be the hardest of Aerotech's to light. Try to get a First Fire Jr. or other igniter. You also might want to scrape the propellant clean in the slot. Good luck.

Rod M.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Walp 
  To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:15 PM
  Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question


  Hi,

   

  Two newbie questions:

   

  1) How are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain?  I believed with Estes
  black powder engines you are suppose to soak them in water.   A few weeks
  ago a casing from a single use E30-7 failed on the pad.  One of the pieces
  picked up off on the ground was the unspent grain.  Aerotech says the
  warrantee replacement is in the mail. 

   

  2) We tried using our brand new RMS-29/40-120 motor today.  The reload was a
  F22-7J.  The copperhead igniter that came with the reload was used.  We
  believed that followed the instructions exactly - it was our first time.
  The igniter was pushed up against the masking tape that was over the forward
  end of the grain.  Unfortunately although the igniter burned, the motor did
  not ignite.   We tried it with a second igniter from a different reload but
  got same results.  Any ideas what could have gone wrong?

   

  thank you,

  _dave_

   

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    

From rcdm at outlawnet.com  Sun Sep 13 23:05:32 2009
From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:05:32 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
References: <008301ca34f1$f16e97c0$d44bc740$@net>
Message-ID: <A3A835D5D9E64C8BAC0E185FB26E7D5C@DANE>

Also, Coppeheads have a bad reputation. They work just fine most of the time except at busy public launches where you have to wait in line to recycle your rocket. ;^)

Rod M.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Walp 
  To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:15 PM
  Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question


  Hi,

   

  Two newbie questions:

   

  1) How are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain?  I believed with Estes
  black powder engines you are suppose to soak them in water.   A few weeks
  ago a casing from a single use E30-7 failed on the pad.  One of the pieces
  picked up off on the ground was the unspent grain.  Aerotech says the
  warrantee replacement is in the mail. 

   

  2) We tried using our brand new RMS-29/40-120 motor today.  The reload was a
  F22-7J.  The copperhead igniter that came with the reload was used.  We
  believed that followed the instructions exactly - it was our first time.
  The igniter was pushed up against the masking tape that was over the forward
  end of the grain.  Unfortunately although the igniter burned, the motor did
  not ignite.   We tried it with a second igniter from a different reload but
  got same results.  Any ideas what could have gone wrong?

   

  thank you,

  _dave_

   

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Sun Sep 13 23:25:23 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:25:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <76C2F6987C034BDDB41C07E923D7B622@DANE>
References: <008301ca34f1$f16e97c0$d44bc740$@net>
	<76C2F6987C034BDDB41C07E923D7B622@DANE>
Message-ID: <4AADE1D3.5080606@hawkfeather.com>

I've had very good luck on the F22 by filling the crimps of the 
Copperhead with some igniter compound. Still fits, but heats up the 
igniter significantly. A QuickBurst Twiggy also works extremely well, 
with some jiggling to get it thru the nozzle & up the slot. I couldn't 
do the same with the FF Jr.

Andrew.

Moorehead wrote:
> The Blackjack propellant seems to be the hardest of Aerotech's to light. Try to get a First Fire Jr. or other igniter. You also might want to scrape the propellant clean in the slot. Good luck.
> 
> Rod M.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: David Walp 
>   To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
>   Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:15 PM
>   Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
> 
> 
>   Hi,
> 
>    
> 
>   Two newbie questions:
> 
>    
> 
>   1) How are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain?  I believed with Estes
>   black powder engines you are suppose to soak them in water.   A few weeks
>   ago a casing from a single use E30-7 failed on the pad.  One of the pieces
>   picked up off on the ground was the unspent grain.  Aerotech says the
>   warrantee replacement is in the mail. 
> 
>    
> 
>   2) We tried using our brand new RMS-29/40-120 motor today.  The reload was a
>   F22-7J.  The copperhead igniter that came with the reload was used.  We
>   believed that followed the instructions exactly - it was our first time.
>   The igniter was pushed up against the masking tape that was over the forward
>   end of the grain.  Unfortunately although the igniter burned, the motor did
>   not ignite.   We tried it with a second igniter from a different reload but
>   got same results.  Any ideas what could have gone wrong?
> 
>    
> 
>   thank you,
> 
>   _dave_
> 
>    
> 
>   _______________________________________________
>   Rockets mailing list
>   Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>     
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 

From stevet19759 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 14 06:54:11 2009
From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:54:11 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <C70E03C9A0B74E6CA11AF418F238902F@LaptopKrausert>
References: <008301ca34f1$f16e97c0$d44bc740$@net>
	<C70E03C9A0B74E6CA11AF418F238902F@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <4AAE4B03.4020406@comcast.net>

The 24mm and some of the 29/40-120 reloads are hard to light.  The 
nozzle throat and the slot in the propellant grain are too small for 
most igniters.  That's why Aerotech is still using copperheads with 
those motors.

As Robert says, there are some tricks to working with copperheads. 
Aerotech sells packs of igniters for these small motors, but the dealers 
don't always carry them.  I had good success (not perfect, but good) 
building small igniters using the "Igniterman" kit and 30 gauge wire 
leads.  It takes a little practice to get enough of the thermite mixture 
to ignite the motor without any lumps, bulges or drips that keep the 
igniter from fitting into the motor.

-Steve



Robert Krausert wrote:
> 1. water, but why? Water works to kill AP; all mourn.
> 2. copperheads need to be mastered. I have never used one, for many 
> reasons.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Walp" <davewalp at comcast.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:15 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
> 
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Two newbie questions:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) How are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain?  I believed with 
>> Estes
>> black powder engines you are suppose to soak them in water.   A few weeks
>> ago a casing from a single use E30-7 failed on the pad.  One of the 
>> pieces
>> picked up off on the ground was the unspent grain.  Aerotech says the
>> warrantee replacement is in the mail.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) We tried using our brand new RMS-29/40-120 motor today.  The reload 
>> was a
>> F22-7J.  The copperhead igniter that came with the reload was used.  We
>> believed that followed the instructions exactly - it was our first time.
>> The igniter was pushed up against the masking tape that was over the 
>> forward
>> end of the grain.  Unfortunately although the igniter burned, the 
>> motor did
>> not ignite.   We tried it with a second igniter from a different 
>> reload but
>> got same results.  Any ideas what could have gone wrong?
>>
>>
>>
>> thank you,
>>
>> _dave_
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
> 


From dmrandall at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 07:14:03 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:14:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <4AAE4B03.4020406@comcast.net>
References: <008301ca34f1$f16e97c0$d44bc740$@net>
	<C70E03C9A0B74E6CA11AF418F238902F@LaptopKrausert>
	<4AAE4B03.4020406@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909140714h6aef7e10u93609303daa34180@mail.gmail.com>

At the last 60 acres launch, I had a 24mm aerotech motor that I tried
lighting with 4 different ignitors, two were copperheads, two were
"twiggy equivlants" made by one of the folks onsite.  Aside from the
propellant being somewhat old, I suspected that a coating built up
over the AP in the slot was making it harder and harder to light with
each subsequent attempt.   You may have experienced a bit of that on
your second attempt.

Scraping the slot with some 80 grit sandpaper may remove any residue
and give you a greater surface area to ignite.

Dave

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 6:54 AM, Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net> wrote:
> The 24mm and some of the 29/40-120 reloads are hard to light. ?The nozzle
> throat and the slot in the propellant grain are too small for most igniters.
> ?That's why Aerotech is still using copperheads with those motors.
>
> As Robert says, there are some tricks to working with copperheads. Aerotech
> sells packs of igniters for these small motors, but the dealers don't always
> carry them. ?I had good success (not perfect, but good) building small
> igniters using the "Igniterman" kit and 30 gauge wire leads. ?It takes a
> little practice to get enough of the thermite mixture to ignite the motor
> without any lumps, bulges or drips that keep the igniter from fitting into
> the motor.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
> Robert Krausert wrote:
>>
>> 1. water, but why? Water works to kill AP; all mourn.
>> 2. copperheads need to be mastered. I have never used one, for many
>> reasons.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Walp" <davewalp at comcast.net>
>> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:15 PM
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Two newbie questions:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) How are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain? ?I believed with
>>> Estes
>>> black powder engines you are suppose to soak them in water. ? A few weeks
>>> ago a casing from a single use E30-7 failed on the pad. ?One of the
>>> pieces
>>> picked up off on the ground was the unspent grain. ?Aerotech says the
>>> warrantee replacement is in the mail.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) We tried using our brand new RMS-29/40-120 motor today. ?The reload
>>> was a
>>> F22-7J. ?The copperhead igniter that came with the reload was used. ?We
>>> believed that followed the instructions exactly - it was our first time.
>>> The igniter was pushed up against the masking tape that was over the
>>> forward
>>> end of the grain. ?Unfortunately although the igniter burned, the motor
>>> did
>>> not ignite. ? We tried it with a second igniter from a different reload
>>> but
>>> got same results. ?Any ideas what could have gone wrong?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> thank you,
>>>
>>> _dave_
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From dmrandall at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 08:24:35 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:24:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>
	<A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com>

I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
the hobby as far as I know.

Interesting idea about a NW newsletter.  I like the permanence of the
paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.

IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
Sport Rocketry:
1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
starts, staging, group projects, etc..
3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
but important topic.  Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
4. etc, etc..

Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
to bolster the content in the existing magazines.  Another avenue
would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year.   FITS is a good
opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
some money already...

Just my few pennies worth...

Dave

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 84 subscribers are screwed.
>
> Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
> balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years for me.
> Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish complaints
> or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but not
> well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with a
> balance are expected to get over it.
>
> Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
> Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to anyone
> that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story. Maybe
> Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in this
> area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek" <absworld at cet.com>
> To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
>
>> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
>>
>> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
>>
>> Bob Yanecek
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
>> To: Rockets NW list
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>>
>>
>> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
>> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy! ?I called
>> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82. ?I need 84. ?If you know of
>> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Carl
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Mon Sep 14 09:49:28 2009
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:49:28 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>
	<A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>
	<6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716B1CC@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>

I would def be interested in talking to some of you who might be interested in having our own magazine for this area.  We could write it, publish it, and distribute it.  Take in some donations for it to go back to the club to help with expenses.

Throw some ideas my way and let's see if anything looks doable.



Angela D. Wright


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:25 AM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
the hobby as far as I know.

Interesting idea about a NW newsletter.  I like the permanence of the
paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.

IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
Sport Rocketry:
1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
starts, staging, group projects, etc..
3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
but important topic.  Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
4. etc, etc..

Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
to bolster the content in the existing magazines.  Another avenue
would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year.   FITS is a good
opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
some money already...

Just my few pennies worth...

Dave

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 84 subscribers are screwed.
>
> Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
> balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years for me.
> Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish complaints
> or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but not
> well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with a
> balance are expected to get over it.
>
> Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
> Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to anyone
> that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story. Maybe
> Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in this
> area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek" <absworld at cet.com>
> To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
>
>> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
>>
>> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
>>
>> Bob Yanecek
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
>> To: Rockets NW list
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>>
>>
>> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
>> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
>> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know of
>> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Carl
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



--
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 10:01:04 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:01:04 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Robert Krausert Thanks to you I am forever broke!
Message-ID: <e83b26700909141001r307bfe86x753c6cefded78ec0@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to thank Robert for the help and advice given over this weekend
launch in Sheridan Oregon.  As anyone who attended knows I tried to certify
level 1 with my PML Cirrus Dart with a 38mm diameter and a 29mm motor
mount.  My first flight went confetti due to drag separation when it hit its
delay.  I we were able to recover all the pieces.  Since it was only the mid
section of the air frame that went confetti it was rebuild-able.  I went
over to Sunriver Rocketries booth and purchased the only 38mm PML tube he
had.  How ever he did not have the coupler I would need.  I was at a loss
for what to do. I started prepping some of the smaller rockets I had brought
with me.  I was in the middle of rigging up a cluster when Robert came
towards me and said "Hey Chris catch!".  He had tossed a PML 29/38mm motor
adapter to me and said "Try that.".  I dropped my cluster and stared digging
for a tape measure.  I made my marks and then did not know what to do about
cutting it.  I pulled the tree cutting rip saw I had from the van and made a
very crud cut which I had to sand down smooth.  I was about to do the same
on the motor mount when some one offered me a hand saw. Thank you who ever
that was.  I went into over drive mixing and spreading epoxy, fitting
everything together and cleaning up my mess.  By the way I have done epoxy
many time but this was the first time I have ever it and gotten it on my
skin, my hand were caked, so it made for a long and interesting clean up.
When all was said and done the dart went from 44.5 inches to 66.5 inches in
length.  The Dart was back together and ready to fly again before the end of
the day.  I have renamed the dart to The Resurrection.  I chose to wait
until Sunday morning to allow the epoxy to fully cure.  Sunday was no pick
nick, winds and low cloud ceiling made it a difficult launching for
everyone.  We went to launching the smaller cluster rockets since the clouds
were hanging around at ruffly 2000 feet which kept my cert grounded.  I did
put a few G motors in my beefed up Estes Fat Boy and had a blast with that
little thing.  (Thank you John Hornsby for selling it to me.)  It was about
2pm when we spotted a nice blue sky heading our way.  Unsure if it would
reach us in time I prepped  The Resurrection anyway.  In the prep Steve
Tarr, George R. and I found that there was a significant amount of pressure
behind the piston on the ejection system.  We cut it out and went for the
old fashioned straight deployment.  We filled out the flight card as the
clouds were just leaving our flight range.  I ran to the LCO as he was
calling High Power closed for the last flight of the day.  He saw it was my
cert and allow me to get it set up real quick.  She screamed of the pad and
had a mild disterbance in the smoke trail about half way up and a pop noise
but the trail continued straight up and reached apogee.  She Made a
successful deployment and recovery.  I would like to thank everyone within
OROC and everyone else who helped in anyway.  Thanks to all of you I have my
Level 1 Certification which without that motor mount adapter Robert Krausert
gave me would not have been possible.

Chris Guenther
Setting  happily on cloud 9!

From cary4 at juno.com  Mon Sep 14 10:42:26 2009
From: cary4 at juno.com (cary4)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:42:26 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Back Issue #84
Message-ID: <20090914.103909.16869.227036@mailpop03.vgs.untd.com>


Ok, these are the people that have requested the #84 (last) issue of
Extreme Rocketry.

jjarmitage at earthlink.net
We would like at least 1
John, Terri, Allyne and Michael


andrewm at hawkfeather.com
One for me plz.

barwickad at gmail.com
Hello Cary.  I would also be interested in a copy of ER No:  84.
Andy Barwick

If there are any changes to this list please let me know. I will be
contacting Brent around 2 pm today to let him know how many issues we
need.

-Cary-



 -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
> To: Rockets NW list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
>
> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know
of
> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carl
____________________________________________________________
Time & Attendance Systems
Track employee time & attendance with TimeForce. View a demo today.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=FU9yvItESR0Kw1ObeipTpwAAJ1C1BQDOebirPKIHQRaqOG0-AAQAAAAFAAAAAMdLtz0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACHJzAAAAAA==

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 10:34:59 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:34:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploading Pics and Video?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909141034uf190c4cuc8eed96602072da3@mail.gmail.com>

I can not upload images or vids it wants me to sign in but it will not take
my sign in info.  Any help?

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 11:17:23 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:17:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Back Issue #84
In-Reply-To: <20090914.103909.16869.227036@mailpop03.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20090914.103909.16869.227036@mailpop03.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909141117r3d6ce0e2wfd92c01b5bc78a86@mail.gmail.com>

I would also Like to get 1

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:42 AM, cary4 <cary4 at juno.com> wrote:

>
> Ok, these are the people that have requested the #84 (last) issue of
> Extreme Rocketry.
>
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> We would like at least 1
> John, Terri, Allyne and Michael
>
>
> andrewm at hawkfeather.com
> One for me plz.
>
> barwickad at gmail.com
> Hello Cary.  I would also be interested in a copy of ER No:  84.
> Andy Barwick
>
> If there are any changes to this list please let me know. I will be
> contacting Brent around 2 pm today to let him know how many issues we
> need.
>
> -Cary-
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
> > To: Rockets NW list
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> >
> > I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> > Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
> > Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know
> of
> > any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Carl
> ____________________________________________________________
> Time & Attendance Systems
> Track employee time & attendance with TimeForce. View a demo today.
>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=FU9yvItESR0Kw1ObeipTpwAAJ1C1BQDOebirPKIHQRaqOG0-AAQAAAAFAAAAAMdLtz0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACHJzAAAAAA==
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 14 11:37:30 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:37:30 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Project Orion nuclear powered spacecraft (1957-1965)
Message-ID: <4AAE8D6A.2020700@earthlink.net>

TED presentation about it.
Author George Dyson, son of physicist Freeman Dyson, spins the story of 
Project Orion, a massive, nuclear-powered spacecraft that could have 
taken us to Saturn in five years. His insider?s perspective and a secret 
cache of documents bring an Atomic Age dream to life.
http://www.ted.com/talks/george_dyson_on_project_orion.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l2QopJbDBs

He wrote a book about the project and was interviewed about it by Space.com.
http://www.space.com/spacelibrary/books/library_projectorion_020709.html

Excerpt from the BBC's "To Mars by A-Bomb."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Lxx2VAYi8

Project Orion: A Re-Imagining
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1vKMTYa40A

Wiki entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 11:47:56 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:47:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Sheridan 2009 - Report
In-Reply-To: <4AADBA98.9040606@comcast.net>
References: <27B103DE1442495FA7F0125B56D8A4DB@LaptopKrausert>
	<4AADBA98.9040606@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909141147sebb8dfduf643bd08d3a93087@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Steve, George, Robert, and everyone else involved in OROC for a
great Sheridan launch.  Also thanks to all of the a fore mentioned for your
advice and help you gave in any manner for my Level 1 Certification.  If it
was not for Robert Krausert tossing me a 29mm motor mount adapter to cut and
use as a coupler in rebuilding my confetti Dart and the patience and well
knowledged advice of all 3 my cert in the last minutes on Sunday would not
have happened.  So thank you everyone for a Great Weekend.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Steve Tarr <stevet19759 at comcast.net> wrote:

> I'll second all of this and add a special thank-you to James Doherty, who
> spent many hours at the LCO table Sunday.
>
> We finished off Sunday in typical fashion - as we started to wrap things up
> for the day, the cold, windy cloudy weather turned clear, warm and (pretty)
> quiet for just long enough to get off three good high-power flights,
> including 1 cert.
>
> Great launch, everybody.  We'll try to make contact with Jay Scharf a
> little earlier next year so we can be better prepared for the field and crop
> conditions.
>
> My stats: two L1 certs and an L2 exam passed this weekend.  I know several
> others were hoping to certify on Sunday and couldn't because of the low
> cloud ceiling.  Thanks for your patience and please try again at one of the
> OROC or BORG launches.
>
> -Steve Tarr
>
>
>
> Robert Krausert wrote:
>
>> Sheridan Report 2009
>>
>> Want to start off by saying thank you everyone for an enjoyable and
>> memorable weekend. Your participation and attendance are what makes an event
>> like this such much more the reason why to come back again each year. I'm
>> rewarded when you and your kids smile and go "Wow" each time a rocket flies.
>> I know we contributed to the NAR "Pay it Forward" objective, and bringing
>> enthusiasm to our youth - our future. TRA is also proud of our effort
>> promoting the sport of rocketry, as well. Without the support of TRA and
>> NAR, we'd not have the privileges we have today. No politics in this report,
>> I promise. But, we are the ones to enable and inspire the next generation
>> into an exciting future. It's great to see so many young flyers at this
>> event, and the level of support they receive. From everyone.
>> I'm not ignoring the BAR folks. Everyone at the launch; young and old, new
>> and long time, I hope this launch was enjoyable and successful for you, and
>> you'll join us again at futures OregonRocketry events.
>>
>> We had approximately 186 people at the event this year, plus or minus a
>> few. This years event held a special last minute requirement by the land
>> owner and fire marshall to not drive onto the field. The scalped wheat field
>> was a fire hazard and concerned many. This request came late Friday. Many
>> that arrived Saturday were accepting of these changes. Even though it meant
>> packing in your supplies and equipment. Appeared everyone kept their spirits
>> up and accepted the change. Certainly something I'm sorry that happened. But
>> something that occured last minute and out of the clubs control. The Sharf's
>> allow us the use of their land once per year, and we truly appreciate that
>> and something most other land onwers would never consider. We,
>> OregonRocketry, have something great and would never want to risk losing it.
>> Thank you to the Sharf's for the privilege of using the land to hold such a
>> great and popular event.
>>
>> I'd like to send a big thank you to Joe Bevier for bringing the trailer
>> out Thursday and helping to unload it. I'd like to thank Tim Ryerse and
>> Keith Packard for helping with setup Friday Morning. Again, thank you Joe
>> Bevier for hauling the trailer after the event.
>>
>> Want to thank Gary Fillible and Paul Bogdanich for the long hours covering
>> LCO duties. Thank you both so much.
>> Want to thank Mary Ann Ryerse, Tim Ryerse, Joe Bevier, Ken McGoffin for
>> all your hard work at the registration table and Flight Safety Officer
>> table. What an amaing job you did. If I missed someone, thank you too. It
>> seemed like a very busy place throughout the day.
>> Want to thank Steve Tarr and George Rachor for NAR certifications and Greg
>> Clark for TRA certifications. Special thank you to Steve Tarr for helping
>> new members with questions, advice, etc.
>> Dallas Scout Troop 288, take a bow. This year we had cooked food
>> available. Hamburgers, hot dogs, corn, and so much more. The sauerkraut,
>> fresh chopped onions, etc filled the air. I heard comments from many that
>> they'd not touched the food they brought because Troop 288's food was so
>> good. Truly appreciate you being there and offering the event good eats and
>> keeping tummies happy... ;-) You're welcome back any time.
>> I know I missed too many. Thank you Tim Ryerse and John Lyngdal for the
>> morning coffee. Thank you John Hornsby and Mark Dunkle for helping to hail
>> equipment up and back from the launch site for visitors.
>> We did hold several drawings on Saturday for prizes. Thank you to Sunriver
>> Bob, Mike with Binder Design, and Clark co.4H for the prizes. One kit from
>> Clark co. 4H, 2 kits and $40 gift card with Sunriver, and built Samurai from
>> Binder Design. Our grand prize was the Binder Design Samurai, built and
>> painted - a very cool 6+ feet tall rocket. The winner was a young man,
>> guessing 5 years old, and the rocket looked like about 3 times the winners
>> current height. The young man's smile was wide walking away when trying to
>> lift/hold on to it. And I was teared seeing the smile. Congratulations to
>> all the winners!!!
>> Paul Bogdanich flew Dave Connet's rocket on a G79W because Dave couldn't
>> attend. Thank you Paul. Dave, we all wish fast healing and hope to see you
>> at meetings and launches soon. Follow the doctors' orders and we'll see you
>> soon to BS again.
>>
>> To Tom Schramm's family... Thank you for joining us for the launch. Deeply
>> apologize to Henry that the night launch was canceled. I know how much Henry
>> and many others were looking forward to it. It was a hard choice. Because of
>> range and fire conditions, the closing of launches at 6pm was a decision I
>> had to make. I know I didn't make people happy. It was my decision only to
>> close at 6pm, and I think the correct one. It was great to watch Tim Ryerse
>> and your two kids review rockets and their fun running with a chute. Tom,
>> you realize that they'll want more? See you at Wilsonville and Brothers
>> launches. ;-)
>> I do not have the flight data yet. I'm holding Saturday's cards, and looks
>> like 250-300 flights. I'll send once they've been counted. Estimate 400ish
>> launches for the weekend.
>>
>> Before I close... Congratulations to Tim Ryerse on your level 2
>> certification under TRA. Job well done. Get out the credit card.
>> Many learnings and improvements for future launches. But not in this
>> report.
>>
>> Great weekend, end report.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>> OROC President
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 12:04:06 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:04:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2 Cert
	Rocket?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909141204u193c9cberdfe8fd06dc7840d4@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking to build a Level 2 Cert Rocket for Brothers in October and
would like to know what them requirements are.  Does it have to have
electronics, duel deployment, ect....?

From bar0051 at homenetnw.net  Mon Sep 14 11:57:46 2009
From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:57:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
References: <008301ca34f1$f16e97c0$d44bc740$@net>
Message-ID: <E133E7A7BAE0406F832FD45FF29B0546@MEDIONDeskTop>

Your trouble lighting the F22 reminds me of my first attempts at midpower, 
only in my case it was a F12.  The copperheads would burn but would not 
light the BlackJack propellant.  The nozzle on the F12 is so small that 
almost nothing but a copperhead will fit.  That is what got me into making 
my own igniters, I use 30 ga. wire wrap wire & 32 ga. nicrome bridgewire 
dipped in pyrogen.  That has been the only solution I have found.

Bryon


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Walp" <davewalp at comcast.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question


> Hi,
>
>
>
> Two newbie questions:
>
>
>
> 1) How are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain?  I believed with 
> Estes
> black powder engines you are suppose to soak them in water.   A few weeks
> ago a casing from a single use E30-7 failed on the pad.  One of the pieces
> picked up off on the ground was the unspent grain.  Aerotech says the
> warrantee replacement is in the mail.
>
>
>
> 2) We tried using our brand new RMS-29/40-120 motor today.  The reload was 
> a
> F22-7J.  The copperhead igniter that came with the reload was used.  We
> believed that followed the instructions exactly - it was our first time.
> The igniter was pushed up against the masking tape that was over the 
> forward
> end of the grain.  Unfortunately although the igniter burned, the motor 
> did
> not ignite.   We tried it with a second igniter from a different reload 
> but
> got same results.  Any ideas what could have gone wrong?
>
>
>
> thank you,
>
> _dave_
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 



From dmrandall at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 12:36:19 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:36:19 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2 Cert
	Rocket?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909141204u193c9cberdfe8fd06dc7840d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909141204u193c9cberdfe8fd06dc7840d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909141236m7bf0d0bftb30a01afb301b81e@mail.gmail.com>

Take a look here:

http://www.nar.org/hpcert/l2certreq.html

Dave

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Christopher Guenther
<guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am looking to build a Level 2 Cert Rocket for Brothers in October and
> would like to know what them requirements are. ?Does it have to have
> electronics, duel deployment, ect....?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From bphlat234 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 14 12:56:23 2009
From: bphlat234 at comcast.net (Gary Harris)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:56:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2
	CertRocket?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909141204u193c9cberdfe8fd06dc7840d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909141204u193c9cberdfe8fd06dc7840d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B0E17D88CFF044BCA45D72362723DAAF@Garylaptop>

no electronics required, the most popular thinking has been to keep the cert 
flight simple as possible, although this certainly varies with the flyer's 
experience.  you have to take a written test before the flight.

Gary Harris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:04 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2 
CertRocket?


>I am looking to build a Level 2 Cert Rocket for Brothers in October and
> would like to know what them requirements are.  Does it have to have
> electronics, duel deployment, ect....?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From carl20320 at msn.com  Mon Sep 14 13:00:03 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:00:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2
	Cert	Rocket?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909141204u193c9cberdfe8fd06dc7840d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909141204u193c9cberdfe8fd06dc7840d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL120-W43028A9EA60642771C82BFEAE40@phx.gbl>


Have you considered looking at the website for which ever organization you are wanting to cert uner?  Everything is spelled out at either the ANR or TRA sites.  They have slightly different requirements and test.
 
> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:04:06 -0700
> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2 Cert Rocket?
> 
> I am looking to build a Level 2 Cert Rocket for Brothers in October and
> would like to know what them requirements are. Does it have to have
> electronics, duel deployment, ect....?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From bphlat234 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 14 13:05:01 2009
From: bphlat234 at comcast.net (Gary Harris)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:05:01 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <E133E7A7BAE0406F832FD45FF29B0546@MEDIONDeskTop>
References: <008301ca34f1$f16e97c0$d44bc740$@net>
	<E133E7A7BAE0406F832FD45FF29B0546@MEDIONDeskTop>
Message-ID: <AA6740A6AA764783AC69A4735E710D29@Garylaptop>

Here's another idea.

Yesterday Bob at Sunriver turned me on to Quest Q2 igniters intended for BP 
motors, but they are also lighting composites.  Tiny little dipped 2-wire 
jobs.  I tried with 2 copperheads yesterday to light an E28, then tried one 
of these and bam. It fit thru the nozzle. 6 for 5 bucks, as opposed to 1st 
fire jrs which are 3 for 9 bucks.  They are semi-low current; an Estes 
continuity check sets them off but not the OROC GSE check.

The E28 is blue thunder,easiest to light, I'll be trying them on other 
propellants in 18 and 24 mm reloads.

Gary Harris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryon Schopp" <bar0051 at homenetnw.net>
To: "David Walp" <davewalp at comcast.net>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question


> Your trouble lighting the F22 reminds me of my first attempts at midpower, 
> only in my case it was a F12.  The copperheads would burn but would not 
> light the BlackJack propellant.  The nozzle on the F12 is so small that 
> almost nothing but a copperhead will fit.  That is what got me into making 
> my own igniters, I use 30 ga. wire wrap wire & 32 ga. nicrome bridgewire 
> dipped in pyrogen.  That has been the only solution I have found.
>
> Bryon
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Walp" <davewalp at comcast.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:15 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Mid Power Newbie Question
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Two newbie questions:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) How are you suppose to dispose of an unused grain?  I believed with 
>> Estes
>> black powder engines you are suppose to soak them in water.   A few weeks
>> ago a casing from a single use E30-7 failed on the pad.  One of the 
>> pieces
>> picked up off on the ground was the unspent grain.  Aerotech says the
>> warrantee replacement is in the mail.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) We tried using our brand new RMS-29/40-120 motor today.  The reload 
>> was a
>> F22-7J.  The copperhead igniter that came with the reload was used.  We
>> believed that followed the instructions exactly - it was our first time.
>> The igniter was pushed up against the masking tape that was over the 
>> forward
>> end of the grain.  Unfortunately although the igniter burned, the motor 
>> did
>> not ignite.   We tried it with a second igniter from a different reload 
>> but
>> got same results.  Any ideas what could have gone wrong?
>>
>>
>>
>> thank you,
>>
>> _dave_
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Mon Sep 14 13:06:59 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:06:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2
	CertRocket?
References: <e83b26700909141204u193c9cberdfe8fd06dc7840d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300288@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Pass applicable (NAR or TRA) Level 2 written exam and successfully fly a rocket powered by a J, K, or L motor.
 
No requirement for electronics or dual deploy at Level 2.
 
Some follow the KISS principle for certification at this level (I did).  Others challenge themselves to go the whole nine yards with dual deploy controlled by redundant electronics.  There's no right or wrong way overall...just what's right for you.
 
Regardless of what you choose to do...my one piece of advice would be to remember the words that have served many a flyer very, very well on their certification flights:  Low and Slow!!!!!!
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Mon 9/14/2009 12:04 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2 CertRocket?



I am looking to build a Level 2 Cert Rocket for Brothers in October and
would like to know what them requirements are.  Does it have to have
electronics, duel deployment, ect....?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From cary4 at juno.com  Mon Sep 14 13:22:05 2009
From: cary4 at juno.com (cary4)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:22:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Back Issue #84
Message-ID: <20090914.131846.14337.227821@mailpop08.vgs.untd.com>


Ok, New update.
The list of available copies of Extreme Rocketry is now closed.
I can't gaurantee you will receive a copy, (depending on how many issues
Brent has available to him)
But I will do my best to procure them for the following people:

jjarmitage at earthlink.net
We would like at least 1
John, Terri, Allyne and Michael


andrewm at hawkfeather.com
One for me plz.

barwickad at gmail.com
Hello Cary.  I would also be interested in a copy of ER No:  84.
Andy Barwick


mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net
I would like one copy please.
Thanks,
Mike Wyvel


guentherchristopher at gmail.com
I would also Like to get 1
Christopher Guenther


4ahoser at ispllc.net
Bob Grossfeld
Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

johnhawkins at wavecable.com
Hi Cary
I would be interested in a copy of 84 also
John Hawkins

Thank You all!

-Cary-
____________________________________________________________
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYaybdCTuKcoO1CmEzbM5L5gbApdpJKNzltyQWO3HCyIsQvyYFK/

From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net  Mon Sep 14 13:43:39 2009
From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:43:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Back Issue #84
In-Reply-To: <20090914.131846.14337.227821@mailpop08.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1322096020.1109581252961019502.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



Could my uncle Andy Jackson possibly convince you to put me in front of that Armitage guy? 




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cary4" <cary4@ juno .com> 
To: Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:22:05 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [ RocketsNW ] Extreme Rocketry Back Issue #84 


Ok , New update. 
The list of available copies of Extreme Rocketry is now closed. 
I can't gaurantee you will receive a copy, (depending on how many issues 
Brent has available to him) 
But I will do my best to procure them for the following people: 

jjarmitage @ earthlink .net 
We would like at least 1 
John, Terri, Allyne and Michael 


andrewm @ hawkfeather .com 
One for me plz . 

barwickad @ gmail .com 
Hello Cary. ?I would also be interested in a copy of ER No: ?84. 
Andy Barwick 


mikeandkimwyvel @comcast.net 
I would like one copy please. 
Thanks, 
Mike Wyvel 


guentherchristopher @ gmail .com 
I would also Like to get 1 
Christopher Guenther 


4ahoser@ ispllc .net 
Bob Grossfeld 
Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory 

johnhawkins @ wavecable .com 
Hi Cary 
I would be interested in a copy of 84 also 
John Hawkins 

Thank You all! 

-Cary- 
_ _______________________________________________ ____________ 
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! 
http :// thirdpartyoffers . juno .com/TGL2141/ fc /BLSrjpTFoYaybdCTuKcoO1CmEzbM5L5gbApdpJKNzltyQWO3HCyIsQvyYFK/ 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets 
?? 

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Mon Sep 14 14:04:38 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:04:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716B1CC@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>
	<A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>
	<6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716B1CC@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC017@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

I'd recommend an electronic based mag. Similar to social media sites. Have people post their own articles, and a moderator "publisher" accept them. Then we'd have archives to topics and articles about those topics we are repeated asked each year on the list by new members. Maybe Greg Deputy can host it on one of the servers. Split the costs between OROC, WAC, SPARC, and Idaho rocketry groups. 

Someone can write about different exopies and reasons, applications, set times, curing time. Then each Spring when get asked on the list, we point them to the article. Article on Altimeters. So on and so on. Maybe even a place to post articles about your project. Your launch reports. 

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:49 AM
To: Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

I would def be interested in talking to some of you who might be interested in having our own magazine for this area.  We could write it, publish it, and distribute it.  Take in some donations for it to go back to the club to help with expenses.

Throw some ideas my way and let's see if anything looks doable.



Angela D. Wright


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:25 AM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
the hobby as far as I know.

Interesting idea about a NW newsletter.  I like the permanence of the
paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.

IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
Sport Rocketry:
1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
starts, staging, group projects, etc..
3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
but important topic.  Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
4. etc, etc..

Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
to bolster the content in the existing magazines.  Another avenue
would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year.   FITS is a good
opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
some money already...

Just my few pennies worth...

Dave

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 84 subscribers are screwed.
>
> Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
> balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years for me.
> Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish complaints
> or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but not
> well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with a
> balance are expected to get over it.
>
> Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
> Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to anyone
> that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story. Maybe
> Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in this
> area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek" <absworld at cet.com>
> To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
>
>> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
>>
>> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
>>
>> Bob Yanecek
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
>> To: Rockets NW list
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>>
>>
>> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
>> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
>> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know of
>> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Carl
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



--
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From cary4 at juno.com  Mon Sep 14 14:16:18 2009
From: cary4 at juno.com (cary4)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:16:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Order Status
Message-ID: <20090914.141318.2464.224096@mailpop05.vgs.untd.com>



Here is the order status for issue #84 of Extreme Rocketry magazine.
The total will be $5.95 + .62 cents for shipping if picked up in person.
Will advise you all of additional shipping costs if delivered 2 your
home.
I would like to have the funds in hand at time of me ordering.
I can accept Paypal at cary4 at juno.com (please include an extra .25 for
Paypal charges)
Or I can accept a check or cash or M.O. at:

Cary States
5221 17th ave SW
Seattle,Wa 98106


thanks.  
$5.95 per magazine
$5 shipping because its 9 magazines or less


can you send me a check for that amount along with note to address below?

********************************
Brent McNeely
Extreme Rocketry Orders
orders at extremerocketry.com
790 Independence St.
Lakewood, CO 80215


On Sep 14, 2009, at 2:27 PM, cary4 wrote:


Good afternoon Brent,

I hope things are well for you!

I have checked with the club, and we will be requiring 8 copies of issue
#84.
Please let me know if all are available and pricing structure, available
payment options etc.

Thank You in return,

-Cary-
____________________________________________________________
Click now for great quotes on affordable mortgage insurance policies!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFLozJd2ey8UWM5MorW8KEHsQYoYCsgAd03Lb9ycka03837rhEXkc/

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Mon Sep 14 14:29:45 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:29:45 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl><00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com><A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert><6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716B1CC@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC017@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300289@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Not meaning to be a party pooper, but....Don't we already have that?  It's called the RocketsNW listserv.
 
Are we basically talking about recreating all over again what we already pretty much have going?  Is there really that great a need?  Am I totally missing the point?  
 
I'm now officially a party pooper...aren't I?
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Krausert, Robert
Sent: Mon 9/14/2009 2:04 PM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry



I'd recommend an electronic based mag. Similar to social media sites. Have people post their own articles, and a moderator "publisher" accept them. Then we'd have archives to topics and articles about those topics we are repeated asked each year on the list by new members. Maybe Greg Deputy can host it on one of the servers. Split the costs between OROC, WAC, SPARC, and Idaho rocketry groups.

Someone can write about different exopies and reasons, applications, set times, curing time. Then each Spring when get asked on the list, we point them to the article. Article on Altimeters. So on and so on. Maybe even a place to post articles about your project. Your launch reports.

Cheers,
Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:49 AM
To: Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

I would def be interested in talking to some of you who might be interested in having our own magazine for this area.  We could write it, publish it, and distribute it.  Take in some donations for it to go back to the club to help with expenses.

Throw some ideas my way and let's see if anything looks doable.



Angela D. Wright


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:25 AM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
the hobby as far as I know.

Interesting idea about a NW newsletter.  I like the permanence of the
paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.

IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
Sport Rocketry:
1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
starts, staging, group projects, etc..
3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
but important topic.  Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
4. etc, etc..

Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
to bolster the content in the existing magazines.  Another avenue
would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year.   FITS is a good
opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
some money already...

Just my few pennies worth...

Dave

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 84 subscribers are screwed.
>
> Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
> balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years for me.
> Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish complaints
> or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but not
> well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with a
> balance are expected to get over it.
>
> Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
> Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to anyone
> that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story. Maybe
> Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in this
> area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek" <absworld at cet.com>
> To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
>
>> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
>>
>> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
>>
>> Bob Yanecek
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
>> To: Rockets NW list
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>>
>>
>> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
>> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
>> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know of
>> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Carl
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



--
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Sep 14 14:41:40 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:41:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploading Pics and Video?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909141034uf190c4cuc8eed96602072da3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909141034uf190c4cuc8eed96602072da3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17c401ca3584$25c6ef30$7154cd90$@com>

Username is rocket password uploads for the nwr uploads area.  Its just a
single un/pw to prevent spammers from dumping crap on the site.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:35 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploading Pics and Video?
> 
> I can not upload images or vids it wants me to sign in but it will not
take
> my sign in info.  Any help?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Mon Sep 14 14:43:01 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:43:01 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC017@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>	<A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>	<6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com>	<8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716B1CC@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC017@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <003501ca3584$55d72a00$01857e00$@net>

Doesn't Greg already do that at the image gallery of North West Rocketry?
http://www.northwestrocketry.com/  Most people just post pictures, but short
articles have been posted in the past.  The biggest difference between the
current version and what you are proposing is some sort of index.

If you want to write and illustrate an article I would suggest posting it in
a format such as Adobe acrobat.  I use deskPDF which is reasonably priced
and also supports MS Publisher from when my wife was doing a newsletter.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:05 PM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

I'd recommend an electronic based mag. Similar to social media sites. Have
people post their own articles, and a moderator "publisher" accept them.
Then we'd have archives to topics and articles about those topics we are
repeated asked each year on the list by new members. Maybe Greg Deputy can
host it on one of the servers. Split the costs between OROC, WAC, SPARC, and
Idaho rocketry groups. 

Someone can write about different exopies and reasons, applications, set
times, curing time. Then each Spring when get asked on the list, we point
them to the article. Article on Altimeters. So on and so on. Maybe even a
place to post articles about your project. Your launch reports. 

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:49 AM
To: Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

I would def be interested in talking to some of you who might be interested
in having our own magazine for this area.  We could write it, publish it,
and distribute it.  Take in some donations for it to go back to the club to
help with expenses.

Throw some ideas my way and let's see if anything looks doable.



Angela D. Wright


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Randall
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:25 AM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
the hobby as far as I know.

Interesting idea about a NW newsletter.  I like the permanence of the
paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.

IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
Sport Rocketry:
1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
starts, staging, group projects, etc..
3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
but important topic.  Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
4. etc, etc..

Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
to bolster the content in the existing magazines.  Another avenue
would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year.   FITS is a good
opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
some money already...

Just my few pennies worth...

Dave

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 84 subscribers are screwed.
>
> Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
> balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years for
me.
> Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish
complaints
> or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but not
> well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with a
> balance are expected to get over it.
>
> Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
> Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to
anyone
> that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story. Maybe
> Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in this
> area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek" <absworld at cet.com>
> To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
>
>> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
>>
>> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
>>
>> Bob Yanecek
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
>> To: Rockets NW list
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>>
>>
>> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
>> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
>> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know
of
>> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Carl
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



--
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Sep 14 14:43:53 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:43:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC017@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>	<A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>	<6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com>	<8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716B1CC@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC017@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <17c601ca3584$74e59a80$5eb0cf80$@com>

Hosting of any electronic content would be no problem, no cost.  Assuming
we're not talking about terabytes of content...  :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Krausert, Robert
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:05 PM
> To: Angela "Red" Wright; Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> I'd recommend an electronic based mag. Similar to social media sites. Have
> people post their own articles, and a moderator "publisher" accept them.
Then
> we'd have archives to topics and articles about those topics we are
repeated
> asked each year on the list by new members. Maybe Greg Deputy can host it
on
> one of the servers. Split the costs between OROC, WAC, SPARC, and Idaho
> rocketry groups.
> 
> Someone can write about different exopies and reasons, applications, set
> times, curing time. Then each Spring when get asked on the list, we point
them
> to the article. Article on Altimeters. So on and so on. Maybe even a place
to
> post articles about your project. Your launch reports.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> I would def be interested in talking to some of you who might be
interested in
> having our own magazine for this area.  We could write it, publish it, and
> distribute it.  Take in some donations for it to go back to the club to
help
> with expenses.
> 
> Throw some ideas my way and let's see if anything looks doable.
> 
> 
> 
> Angela D. Wright
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Dave Randall
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:25 AM
> To: Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
> publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
> That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
> the hobby as far as I know.
> 
> Interesting idea about a NW newsletter.  I like the permanence of the
> paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.
> 
> IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
> Sport Rocketry:
> 1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
> 2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
> regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
> starts, staging, group projects, etc..
> 3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
> could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
> but important topic.  Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
> cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
> lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
> 4. etc, etc..
> 
> Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
> to bolster the content in the existing magazines.  Another avenue
> would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
> NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year.   FITS is a good
> opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
> could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
> some money already...
> 
> Just my few pennies worth...
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
> <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 84 subscribers are screwed.
> >
> > Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
> > balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years for
me.
> > Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish
complaints
> > or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but not
> > well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with a
> > balance are expected to get over it.
> >
> > Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
> > Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to
anyone
> > that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story.
Maybe
> > Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in
this
> > area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Robert
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek"
<absworld at cet.com>
> > To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> >
> >> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
> >>
> >> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
> >>
> >> Bob Yanecek
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
> >> To: Rockets NW list
> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >>
> >>
> >> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> >> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
> >> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know
of
> >> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Carl
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> - Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From robert.krausert at intel.com  Mon Sep 14 14:55:12 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:55:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <17c601ca3584$74e59a80$5eb0cf80$@com>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>
	<A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>
	<6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716B1CC@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC017@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<17c601ca3584$74e59a80$5eb0cf80$@com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC10F@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Greg,
I wonder about Marty's comment. Maybe we can scrub the Northwest Rocketry site. Allow for the posting of articles, launch reports, etc. Would need to define the categories. Can that site support moderator approval for certain areas; such as articles or news stories? Ability to store articles based on various topics/categories? Also with the image gallery, is there a way to archive them, rather than roll-off when limits are hit. I think an archive would be better than simply having the gallery being bigger and overwhelming to view or find something. Or a way to add categorization to images. Adding a new input field to the uploads page with choices; launch, rocket, project, electronics, testing, article-image, etc. 

Not trying to create a burden of work for you Greg. Only tossing out ideas to secure articles and images. So we have a knowledge reference point for new folks or folks needing ideas/help. Plus a place to post launch reports, rocket project, etc.

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:44 PM
To: Krausert, Robert; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Dave Randall'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

Hosting of any electronic content would be no problem, no cost.  Assuming
we're not talking about terabytes of content...  :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Krausert, Robert
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:05 PM
> To: Angela "Red" Wright; Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> I'd recommend an electronic based mag. Similar to social media sites. Have
> people post their own articles, and a moderator "publisher" accept them.
Then
> we'd have archives to topics and articles about those topics we are
repeated
> asked each year on the list by new members. Maybe Greg Deputy can host it
on
> one of the servers. Split the costs between OROC, WAC, SPARC, and Idaho
> rocketry groups.
> 
> Someone can write about different exopies and reasons, applications, set
> times, curing time. Then each Spring when get asked on the list, we point
them
> to the article. Article on Altimeters. So on and so on. Maybe even a place
to
> post articles about your project. Your launch reports.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> I would def be interested in talking to some of you who might be
interested in
> having our own magazine for this area.  We could write it, publish it, and
> distribute it.  Take in some donations for it to go back to the club to
help
> with expenses.
> 
> Throw some ideas my way and let's see if anything looks doable.
> 
> 
> 
> Angela D. Wright
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Dave Randall
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:25 AM
> To: Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
> publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
> That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
> the hobby as far as I know.
> 
> Interesting idea about a NW newsletter.  I like the permanence of the
> paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.
> 
> IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
> Sport Rocketry:
> 1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
> 2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
> regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
> starts, staging, group projects, etc..
> 3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
> could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
> but important topic.  Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
> cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
> lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
> 4. etc, etc..
> 
> Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
> to bolster the content in the existing magazines.  Another avenue
> would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
> NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year.   FITS is a good
> opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
> could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
> some money already...
> 
> Just my few pennies worth...
> 
> Dave
> 
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
> <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> 84 subscribers are screwed.
> >
> > Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
> > balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years for
me.
> > Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish
complaints
> > or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but not
> > well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with a
> > balance are expected to get over it.
> >
> > Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
> > Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to
anyone
> > that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story.
Maybe
> > Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in
this
> > area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Robert
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek"
<absworld at cet.com>
> > To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> >
> >> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
> >>
> >> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
> >>
> >> Bob Yanecek
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
> >> To: Rockets NW list
> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >>
> >>
> >> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
> >> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
> >> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you know
of
> >> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Carl
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> - Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From dmrandall at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 15:25:56 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:25:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300289@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>
	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>
	<A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>
	<6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716B1CC@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC017@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300289@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909141525r6e835fb3kc115850c120ea898@mail.gmail.com>

To me, the difference is in the amount of effort in making something
'final" and "printable" versus posting to the list.

I've posted a variety of launch reports - primarily from my own
perspective and focused on my personal flights (or those of special
interest to me).  So, if I were writing an "official newsletter or
magazine-worthy" article, I'd add more pictures, content about other
aspects of the launch, etc.

I don't really ever post about a project I'm doing unless I have a
problem or specific question.  So, I'd be inclined to actually write
an article about my project, interesting goals, etc.. Photos, post
flight reports, and the like would be part of a project article.

Organzing threads like the recent rail button thread into an article
might be interesting way to see the "historical tidbits" rather than
groveling through old e-mails.

Dave

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Schurke, Peter
<pmschurke at seattleschools.org> wrote:
> Not meaning to be a party pooper, but....Don't we already have that? ?It's called the RocketsNW listserv.
>
> Are we basically talking about recreating all over again what we already pretty much have going? ?Is there really that great a need? ?Am I totally missing the point?
>
> I'm now officially a party pooper...aren't I?
>
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St.
> Seattle, WA ?98133
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Krausert, Robert
> Sent: Mon 9/14/2009 2:04 PM
> To: Angela "Red" Wright; Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
>
>
> I'd recommend an electronic based mag. Similar to social media sites. Have people post their own articles, and a moderator "publisher" accept them. Then we'd have archives to topics and articles about those topics we are repeated asked each year on the list by new members. Maybe Greg Deputy can host it on one of the servers. Split the costs between OROC, WAC, SPARC, and Idaho rocketry groups.
>
> Someone can write about different exopies and reasons, applications, set times, curing time. Then each Spring when get asked on the list, we point them to the article. Article on Altimeters. So on and so on. Maybe even a place to post articles about your project. Your launch reports.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
> I would def be interested in talking to some of you who might be interested in having our own magazine for this area. ?We could write it, publish it, and distribute it. ?Take in some donations for it to go back to the club to help with expenses.
>
> Throw some ideas my way and let's see if anything looks doable.
>
>
>
> Angela D. Wright
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:25 AM
> To: Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
> I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
> publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
> That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
> the hobby as far as I know.
>
> Interesting idea about a NW newsletter. ?I like the permanence of the
> paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.
>
> IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
> Sport Rocketry:
> 1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
> 2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
> regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
> starts, staging, group projects, etc..
> 3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
> could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
> but important topic. ?Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
> cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
> lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
> 4. etc, etc..
>
> Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
> to bolster the content in the existing magazines. ?Another avenue
> would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
> NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year. ? FITS is a good
> opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
> could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
> some money already...
>
> Just my few pennies worth...
>
> Dave
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
> <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 84 subscribers are screwed.
>>
>> Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
>> balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years for me.
>> Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish complaints
>> or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but not
>> well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with a
>> balance are expected to get over it.
>>
>> Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
>> Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to anyone
>> that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story. Maybe
>> Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in this
>> area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek" <absworld at cet.com>
>> To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>>
>>
>>> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
>>>
>>> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
>>>
>>> Bob Yanecek
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
>>> To: Rockets NW list
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>>>
>>>
>>> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot Rick
>>> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy! ?I called
>>> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82. ?I need 84. ?If you know of
>>> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> - Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 15:35:36 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:35:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>

Can you put Aerotech motor casings and the enclosures in the dishwasher
after you have wiped away the residue?

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 15:45:51 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:45:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2
	CertRocket?
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300288@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <e83b26700909141204u193c9cberdfe8fd06dc7840d4@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300288@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909141545h4c8ccd1cr8887291c32526e60@mail.gmail.com>

I am N.A.R. and I will talk to Steve about the test when the time comes as I
plan on building the rocket and studying for the test first.  Thank you
everyone for your great input and knowledge base.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Schurke, Peter <
pmschurke at seattleschools.org> wrote:

> Pass applicable (NAR or TRA) Level 2 written exam and successfully fly a
> rocket powered by a J, K, or L motor.
>
> No requirement for electronics or dual deploy at Level 2.
>
> Some follow the KISS principle for certification at this level (I did).
>  Others challenge themselves to go the whole nine yards with dual deploy
> controlled by redundant electronics.  There's no right or wrong way
> overall...just what's right for you.
>
> Regardless of what you choose to do...my one piece of advice would be to
> remember the words that have served many a flyer very, very well on their
> certification flights:  Low and Slow!!!!!!
>
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St.
> Seattle, WA  98133
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Mon 9/14/2009 12:04 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] What are the minimum requirements for a Lvl2
> CertRocket?
>
>
>
> I am looking to build a Level 2 Cert Rocket for Brothers in October and
> would like to know what them requirements are.  Does it have to have
> electronics, duel deployment, ect....?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
>

From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 16:34:21 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:34:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <368826.6455.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I found that cleaning with baby wipes does a great job. Some cases that I have cleaned in the dish washer would loose some of the coloring from anodizing. And when the wife cought me it was almost certain death. After all it's a dish washer not a case washer. If they are cruded up real bad I'd just turn the bath room into a pickle factory by soaking the cases in vineager for a few then washing them real good. But baby wipes worked great for me over all.

John Hornsby?




________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:35:36 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

Can you put Aerotech motor casings and the enclosures in the dishwasher
after you have wiped away the residue?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Mon Sep 14 17:24:42 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:24:42 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20991359C927@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

you could but why would you?
________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Christopher Guenther [guentherchristopher at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:35 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

Can you put Aerotech motor casings and the enclosures in the dishwasher
after you have wiped away the residue?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From robert.krausert at intel.com  Mon Sep 14 17:44:49 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:44:49 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <368826.6455.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>
	<368826.6455.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC364@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

If my wife found motor cases and closures in the dishwasher I'd be toast. Just like John's comment. If she found that, I'd be sleeping on my stomach for a long time. That is if I wasn't kicked outside to the dog house. My wife puts up with rocketry and all my trips. But adding the casings in the dishwasher is certain death. You know that look. A look that kills. I try really hard to never get that look. I agree with baby wipes. I always bring them to a launch and have in the garage.  

Example about "the look." I have a neighbor that owns a quad. It has no muffler, so it's very loud. One Saturday he was riding it up and down the street. She told me to go outside and tell Chris to stop it. So I went outside. About 15 minutes later the wife came out because the loud quad was still running up and down the street. When she came out to yell at Chris, she noticed he was sitting in a lawn chair in my driveway. Then noticed it was me, yes me, riding the quad. I pulled up the driveway smiling and killed the motor. I got the look. I smiled and said "this is really cool." She continued the look. A look that can melt plate steel. I've learned to avoid that look. No casings in the dishwasher.

Cheers,
Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Hornsby
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:34 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

I found that cleaning with baby wipes does a great job. Some cases that I have cleaned in the dish washer would loose some of the coloring from anodizing. And when the wife cought me it was almost certain death. After all it's a dish washer not a case washer. If they are cruded up real bad I'd just turn the bath room into a pickle factory by soaking the cases in vineager for a few then washing them real good. But baby wipes worked great for me over all.

John Hornsby?




________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:35:36 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

Can you put Aerotech motor casings and the enclosures in the dishwasher
after you have wiped away the residue?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From sales at pvconly.com  Mon Sep 14 18:23:57 2009
From: sales at pvconly.com (sales at pvconly.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:23:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
Message-ID: <771879.26705.qm@web1216.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


If I'm not mistaken here; and I could be wrong about this; I believe that Christopher may be wanting to clean the motor case in the dishwasher.? But it is just a hunch! 8^{)
?
Christopher, a plastic wash basin filled with Mr. Clean, hot water and a soft plastic bottle brush is all you would need to get your motor clean. After the major gunk has been removed a good soak in Mr. Clean is all?that would be needed to make it sparkle and shine!
?




--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:


From: Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>, "rockets at rocketsnw.com" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 5:24 PM


you could but why would you?
________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Christopher Guenther [guentherchristopher at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:35 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

Can you put Aerotech motor casings and the enclosures in the dishwasher
after you have wiped away the residue?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 18:34:43 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:34:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: [Bod] Fw: OROC Question
Message-ID: <5CCEA3D23EBF415492080CB978C494F4@LaptopKrausert>

Folks,
See the message from Kraig. If it was your rocket and willing to share, please send Kraig's email address in this email.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeff Moore 
To: BOD OROC 
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:12 PM
Subject: [Bod] Fw: OROC Question



----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kraig Brockschmidt 
To: tnetcenter at gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:03 PM
Subject: OROC Question


Hi all-I had a great time at today's launch in Sheridan-pulled off 19 launches (low-power) of my own.

 

There was one fellow that launched a camera payload from the low-power C rack somewhere mid-day, and the rocket came down perfectly near the flag line. It actually landed about 6 feet from me, and I'd love to see that video and get a copy in its best resolution. If you know the email of the man who launched that one, I'd appreciate it.

 

Thanks, and thanks again for all your work in hosting the event.

 

Kraig Brockschmidt

Portland, OR



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Bod mailing list
Bod at oregonrocketry.org
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/bod

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 14 18:40:53 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:40:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC364@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>	<368826.6455.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC364@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <4AAEF0A5.2060703@earthlink.net>

Like this Dog House?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wTg6YB2PRA

Robert

Krausert, Robert wrote:
> If my wife found motor cases and closures in the dishwasher I'd be toast. Just like John's comment. If she found that, I'd be sleeping on my stomach for a long time. That is if I wasn't kicked outside to the dog house. My wife puts up with rocketry and all my trips. But adding the casings in the dishwasher is certain death. You know that look. A look that kills. I try really hard to never get that look. I agree with baby wipes. I always bring them to a launch and have in the garage.  
>
> Example about "the look." I have a neighbor that owns a quad. It has no muffler, so it's very loud. One Saturday he was riding it up and down the street. She told me to go outside and tell Chris to stop it. So I went outside. About 15 minutes later the wife came out because the loud quad was still running up and down the street. When she came out to yell at Chris, she noticed he was sitting in a lawn chair in my driveway. Then noticed it was me, yes me, riding the quad. I pulled up the driveway smiling and killed the motor. I got the look. I smiled and said "this is really cool." She continued the look. A look that can melt plate steel. I've learned to avoid that look. No casings in the dishwasher.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Hornsby
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:34 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
>
> I found that cleaning with baby wipes does a great job. Some cases that I have cleaned in the dish washer would loose some of the coloring from anodizing. And when the wife cought me it was almost certain death. After all it's a dish washer not a case washer. If they are cruded up real bad I'd just turn the bath room into a pickle factory by soaking the cases in vineager for a few then washing them real good. But baby wipes worked great for me over all.
>
> John Hornsby 
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:35:36 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
>
> Can you put Aerotech motor casings and the enclosures in the dishwasher
> after you have wiped away the residue?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   


From dmrandall at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 18:43:15 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:43:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC364@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>
	<368826.6455.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC364@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909141843v3a242cd3gcb5763ae3059a602@mail.gmail.com>

Key to cleaning any motor IMO is clean immediately after flying.  The
longer you wait, the crustier it gets and harder it is to clean.

+1 on baby wipes.

Dave

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Krausert, Robert
<robert.krausert at intel.com> wrote:
> If my wife found motor cases and closures in the dishwasher I'd be toast. Just like John's comment. If she found that, I'd be sleeping on my stomach for a long time. That is if I wasn't kicked outside to the dog house. My wife puts up with rocketry and all my trips. But adding the casings in the dishwasher is certain death. You know that look. A look that kills. I try really hard to never get that look. I agree with baby wipes. I always bring them to a launch and have in the garage.
>
> Example about "the look." I have a neighbor that owns a quad. It has no muffler, so it's very loud. One Saturday he was riding it up and down the street. She told me to go outside and tell Chris to stop it. So I went outside. About 15 minutes later the wife came out because the loud quad was still running up and down the street. When she came out to yell at Chris, she noticed he was sitting in a lawn chair in my driveway. Then noticed it was me, yes me, riding the quad. I pulled up the driveway smiling and killed the motor. I got the look. I smiled and said "this is really cool." She continued the look. A look that can melt plate steel. I've learned to avoid that look. No casings in the dishwasher.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Hornsby
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:34 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
>
> I found that cleaning with baby wipes does a great job. Some cases that I have cleaned in the dish washer would loose some of the coloring from anodizing. And when the wife cought me it was almost certain death. After all it's a dish washer not a case washer. If they are cruded up real bad I'd just turn the bath room into a pickle factory by soaking the cases in vineager for a few then washing them real good. But baby wipes worked great for me over all.
>
> John Hornsby
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:35:36 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
>
> Can you put Aerotech motor casings and the enclosures in the dishwasher
> after you have wiped away the residue?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Sep 14 19:35:01 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:35:01 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC10F@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <COL120-W17CEE3A14D088C4007532EAEA0@phx.gbl>	<00f401ca30fa$ec22eeb0$c468cc10$@com>	<A930673770F4443FAA1675601D119BBD@LaptopKrausert>	<6bc920e40909140824i3f65d242i662ac5d6b9eab97@mail.gmail.com>	<8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716B1CC@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC017@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<17c601ca3584$74e59a80$5eb0cf80$@com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E419DC10F@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <188901ca35ad$20be09a0$623a1ce0$@com>

Its needed it for a long time.  :)

What I'm leaning towards is a CMS like wordpress where static pages can be
setup, and blog posts can posted by contributors, categorized, indexed, etc.
I don't like sharepoint as it's a BEAR to install and maintain and a mega
resource hog.  And yes, I'm an MS employee, and I still don't like that
product.  :-/

If I were to setup a new site, are there some folks out there to be editors,
contributors, etc?  And with my obnoxious schedule I'd want to delegate to
someone to be the manager of the site.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Krausert, Robert [mailto:robert.krausert at intel.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:55 PM
> To: Greg Deputy; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Dave Randall'; 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> Greg,
> I wonder about Marty's comment. Maybe we can scrub the Northwest Rocketry
> site. Allow for the posting of articles, launch reports, etc. Would need
to
> define the categories. Can that site support moderator approval for
certain
> areas; such as articles or news stories? Ability to store articles based
on
> various topics/categories? Also with the image gallery, is there a way to
> archive them, rather than roll-off when limits are hit. I think an archive
> would be better than simply having the gallery being bigger and
overwhelming
> to view or find something. Or a way to add categorization to images.
Adding a
> new input field to the uploads page with choices; launch, rocket, project,
> electronics, testing, article-image, etc.
> 
> Not trying to create a burden of work for you Greg. Only tossing out ideas
to
> secure articles and images. So we have a knowledge reference point for new
> folks or folks needing ideas/help. Plus a place to post launch reports,
rocket
> project, etc.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:44 PM
> To: Krausert, Robert; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Dave Randall'; 'Rockets NW
list'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> Hosting of any electronic content would be no problem, no cost.  Assuming
> we're not talking about terabytes of content...  :)
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Krausert, Robert
> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:05 PM
> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> > I'd recommend an electronic based mag. Similar to social media sites.
Have
> > people post their own articles, and a moderator "publisher" accept them.
> Then
> > we'd have archives to topics and articles about those topics we are
> repeated
> > asked each year on the list by new members. Maybe Greg Deputy can host
it
> on
> > one of the servers. Split the costs between OROC, WAC, SPARC, and Idaho
> > rocketry groups.
> >
> > Someone can write about different exopies and reasons, applications, set
> > times, curing time. Then each Spring when get asked on the list, we
point
> them
> > to the article. Article on Altimeters. So on and so on. Maybe even a
place
> to
> > post articles about your project. Your launch reports.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Robert
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:49 AM
> > To: Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> > I would def be interested in talking to some of you who might be
> interested in
> > having our own magazine for this area.  We could write it, publish it,
and
> > distribute it.  Take in some donations for it to go back to the club to
> help
> > with expenses.
> >
> > Throw some ideas my way and let's see if anything looks doable.
> >
> >
> >
> > Angela D. Wright
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Dave Randall
> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:25 AM
> > To: Rockets NW list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> > I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
> > publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
> > That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
> > the hobby as far as I know.
> >
> > Interesting idea about a NW newsletter.  I like the permanence of the
> > paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.
> >
> > IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
> > Sport Rocketry:
> > 1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
> > 2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
> > regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
> > starts, staging, group projects, etc..
> > 3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
> > could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
> > but important topic.  Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
> > cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
> > lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
> > 4. etc, etc..
> >
> > Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
> > to bolster the content in the existing magazines.  Another avenue
> > would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
> > NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year.   FITS is a good
> > opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
> > could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
> > some money already...
> >
> > Just my few pennies worth...
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
> > <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> 84 subscribers are screwed.
> > >
> > > Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
> > > balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years
for
> me.
> > > Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish
> complaints
> > > or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but
not
> > > well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with
a
> > > balance are expected to get over it.
> > >
> > > Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
> > > Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to
> anyone
> > > that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story.
> Maybe
> > > Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in
> this
> > > area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Robert
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek"
> <absworld at cet.com>
> > > To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> > >
> > >
> > >> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
> > >>
> > >> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
> > >>
> > >> Bob Yanecek
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > >> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
> > >> To: Rockets NW list
> > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot
Rick
> > >> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!  I called
> > >> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.  I need 84.  If you
know
> of
> > >> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Thanks!
> > >>
> > >> Carl
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Rockets mailing list
> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Rockets mailing list
> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Dave
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 16:20:38 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:20:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] My Cert weekend at OROC's Sheridan Oregon Launch
Message-ID: <e83b26700909141620m3116ff7aq485feb34c937864f@mail.gmail.com>

Click here to see it <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-i3XDkFDs> or use
this in your url bar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-i3XDkFDs

Now its time to build a Level 2 Rocket and study for the test.

See you all from above,
Chris Guenther

From Simpsonclark at aol.com  Sun Sep 13 16:14:55 2009
From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:14:55 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.
Message-ID: <c20.65891b67.37ded6ef@aol.com>

No rule says you can't anchor a motor by the top.  See attached.
 
 
In a message dated 9/13/2009 2:06:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
scott at scottsrockets.com writes:

Motors  should not be pushing against your forward bulkhead.

I agree aluminum  rings would be ok, although plywood ounce for ounce is
likely comparable in  strength. 


Scott T.  Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com


-----Original Message-----
From:  rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On  Behalf Of Simpsonclark at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:25  AM
To: jhadv at pacifier.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re:  [RocketsNW] Assembling rail buttons.

I agree, I think aluminum  centering rings or bulkheads make the best 
anchors
for rail buttons.   I have seen a lot of structural failures in HPR  as a
result of  continuing to apply model technology for motors that exceed many
military  power levels; not so much with rail buttons as with  forward
bulkheads.  I would suggest that such items can be sold  inexpensively if
produced in quantity and that can be done because we have  standard motor
case  sizes and fairly standard tubes.   Additionally, such parts can
frequently  be recovered and/or  recycled.  We manage that with motor
hardware and  aeropac  retainers. 
-Robert


In a message dated 9/11/2009 9:48:08 P.M.  Pacific Daylight Time,
jhadv at pacifier.com writes:

Uuuuh,  how  about an aluminum centering ring with a threaded hole?  No   
need
for CA or any other duct tape like solutions.  Torque on  the  threads keeps
the button solid during launch and the rail buttons  can be  replaced at 
will
with no problems.  I use lugless  launchers myself but  if I was using
buttons that is what I  would   do.

_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing   list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets





From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 18:52:56 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:52:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] My Cert weekend at OROC's Sheridan Oregon Launch
References: <e83b26700909141620m3116ff7aq485feb34c937864f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2A3F3162C5D64D62A8771C1E23F0C8D5@LaptopKrausert>

That was no "drag separation." That was mach disturbance. Drag separation does not cause a rocket to make a sharp 90 degree turn. Not like that. 

Just my take. That wasn't drag separation. Rockets need to be under coast for that to happen.

Your slight smoke trail curly-que was mach. But this time it held.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Christopher Guenther 
  To: Mark Guenther ; Lunarlanderz at yahoo.com ; Jeff ; Kitty Haney ; Robert Krausert ; Mfreptiles at aol.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org ; Nigel j ; patriciadell2003 ; rockets at rocketsnw.com ; Roy Harper ; rguenther2b at charter.net ; Tedd Harris ; VernKnowles at vernk.com ; vern_knowles at att.net 
  Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:20 PM
  Subject: My Cert weekend at OROC's Sheridan Oregon Launch


  Click here to see it or use this in your url bar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-i3XDkFDs

  Now its time to build a Level 2 Rocket and study for the test.  

  See you all from above,
  Chris Guenther

From robert.killen at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 19:56:10 2009
From: robert.killen at yahoo.com (Robert Killen)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:56:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <188901ca35ad$20be09a0$623a1ce0$@com>
Message-ID: <246863.22329.qm@web45303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I don't have the expertise to be an editor but I'd be happy to help design a nice theme (look)?for the site.? I can build Wordpress and Joomla themes.? Spent some years as a designer and love to keep my hands in it.? Let me know!
?
Cheers!
?? Robert K

Robert Killen, founder
Apex Development Network
www.apexdn.com
541.350.6980

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:


From: Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
To: "'Krausert, Robert'" <robert.krausert at intel.com>, "'Angela "Red" Wright'" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>, "'Dave Randall'" <dmrandall at gmail.com>, "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 7:35 PM


Its needed it for a long time.? :)

What I'm leaning towards is a CMS like wordpress where static pages can be
setup, and blog posts can posted by contributors, categorized, indexed, etc.
I don't like sharepoint as it's a BEAR to install and maintain and a mega
resource hog.? And yes, I'm an MS employee, and I still don't like that
product.? :-/

If I were to setup a new site, are there some folks out there to be editors,
contributors, etc?? And with my obnoxious schedule I'd want to delegate to
someone to be the manager of the site.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Krausert, Robert [mailto:robert.krausert at intel.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:55 PM
> To: Greg Deputy; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Dave Randall'; 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> Greg,
> I wonder about Marty's comment. Maybe we can scrub the Northwest Rocketry
> site. Allow for the posting of articles, launch reports, etc. Would need
to
> define the categories. Can that site support moderator approval for
certain
> areas; such as articles or news stories? Ability to store articles based
on
> various topics/categories? Also with the image gallery, is there a way to
> archive them, rather than roll-off when limits are hit. I think an archive
> would be better than simply having the gallery being bigger and
overwhelming
> to view or find something. Or a way to add categorization to images.
Adding a
> new input field to the uploads page with choices; launch, rocket, project,
> electronics, testing, article-image, etc.
> 
> Not trying to create a burden of work for you Greg. Only tossing out ideas
to
> secure articles and images. So we have a knowledge reference point for new
> folks or folks needing ideas/help. Plus a place to post launch reports,
rocket
> project, etc.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:44 PM
> To: Krausert, Robert; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Dave Randall'; 'Rockets NW
list'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> Hosting of any electronic content would be no problem, no cost.? Assuming
> we're not talking about terabytes of content...? :)
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Krausert, Robert
> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:05 PM
> > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> > I'd recommend an electronic based mag. Similar to social media sites.
Have
> > people post their own articles, and a moderator "publisher" accept them.
> Then
> > we'd have archives to topics and articles about those topics we are
> repeated
> > asked each year on the list by new members. Maybe Greg Deputy can host
it
> on
> > one of the servers. Split the costs between OROC, WAC, SPARC, and Idaho
> > rocketry groups.
> >
> > Someone can write about different exopies and reasons, applications, set
> > times, curing time. Then each Spring when get asked on the list, we
point
> them
> > to the article. Article on Altimeters. So on and so on. Maybe even a
place
> to
> > post articles about your project. Your launch reports.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Robert
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:49 AM
> > To: Dave Randall; Rockets NW list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> > I would def be interested in talking to some of you who might be
> interested in
> > having our own magazine for this area.? We could write it, publish it,
and
> > distribute it.? Take in some donations for it to go back to the club to
> help
> > with expenses.
> >
> > Throw some ideas my way and let's see if anything looks doable.
> >
> >
> >
> > Angela D. Wright
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Dave Randall
> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:25 AM
> > To: Rockets NW list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> > I was unaware that Launch magazine has also stopped their print
> > publication: http://launchmagonline.com/news/170-statement-07-20-2009.
> > That leaves Rockets and Sport Rocketry as the two print magazines for
> > the hobby as far as I know.
> >
> > Interesting idea about a NW newsletter.? I like the permanence of the
> > paper based magazine - call me old fashioned.
> >
> > IMO, some things that we as the NW group can contribute to Rockets &
> > Sport Rocketry:
> > 1. More launch reports for those launches that are not the "big-uns".
> > 2. Some more 'featured project" articles - I know SR has L3 projects
> > regularly, but I'd love to see articles on more complex projects, air
> > starts, staging, group projects, etc..
> > 3. The recent discussion on rail buttons - good example of how we
> > could have a "Tips from the Great Northwest" mini-article on a small,
> > but important topic.? Could cover all manner of things, shock cords,
> > cord length, nosecone designs for meeting different goals, we have
> > lots of great "find it" electronics variety here...
> > 4. etc, etc..
> >
> > Anyhow, my suggestion would be to first see what we can do as a group
> > to bolster the content in the existing magazines.? Another avenue
> > would be to help the existing magazine subscriptions by doing specific
> > NAR/Tripoli membership drives 2x per year.???FITS is a good
> > opportunity, and there are probably a bunch of other launches that
> > could serve as a good focal point, where folks are expecting to spend
> > some money already...
> >
> > Just my few pennies worth...
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Robert Krausert
> > <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> 84 subscribers are screwed.
> > >
> > > Brent included a nice "we're sorry" letter. No refund, nothing for my
> > > balance. My family has purchased this mag for the past couple years
for
> me.
> > > Grateful. But, what of my balance? No bankruptcy, does Brent wish
> complaints
> > > or class action? I'd never do that to Brent, he ran a great mag, but
not
> > > well managed. Might have under charged the vendors for ads. Folks with
a
> > > balance are expected to get over it.
> > >
> > > Is it time? Is it time for a NW Newsletter? A single point publisher.
> > > Articles from anyone, submitted to the publisher. No ads. Monthly to
> anyone
> > > that wants a copy. Articles include pictures, if part of the story.
> Maybe
> > > Deputy would be willing to host the content. Only an idea. We have in
> this
> > > area some of the nations best waivers and flyers.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Robert
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek"
> <absworld at cet.com>
> > > To: "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> > >
> > >
> > >> Sounds like maybe folks who paid for issues >84 can benefit.
> > >>
> > >> My last issue was #83.....danGIT.
> > >>
> > >> Bob Yanecek
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > >> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:28 PM
> > >> To: Rockets NW list
> > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I made the cover of the last issue of Extreme Rocketry with a phot
Rick
> > >> Clapp took at FITS and I can't find an issue (or 2) to buy!? I called
> > >> Tammie's but was told they only have issue 82.? I need 84.? If you
know
> of
> > >> any place I can call and buy this from, PLEASE let me know.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Thanks!
> > >>
> > >> Carl
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Rockets mailing list
> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Rockets mailing list
> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Dave
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      

From t.j.doll at att.net  Mon Sep 14 20:05:18 2009
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:05:18 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
Message-ID: <091520090305.7759.4AAF046D000F122000001E4F22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

>>Key to cleaning any motor IMO is clean immediately after flying.  The
>>longer you wait, the crustier it gets and harder it is to clean.
>>
>>+1 on baby wipes.

I've had good luck using those hand wipes in little sealed packages that get thrown in with box lunches.  Nice part is they last forever in the range box.

+1 on cleaning as soon as practical after flying.

Tim

From t.j.doll at att.net  Mon Sep 14 20:15:52 2009
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:15:52 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] What Was It?
Message-ID: <091520090315.18294.4AAF06E8000660500000477622216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

A couple weeks ago, while on my way to go racing in Utah, I was driving along I-86 in that military training area north of Yakama.  In the distance I saw 3 (apparently identical) rockets salvo launched, maybe 30 or 45 seconds between each launch.  They were several miles distant when launched so I couldn't make out much, but the launches appeared to be near vertical (i.e. not artillery rockets), with long, high burns (appeared well over a mile altitude at burnout).  Exhaust was a dark gray (but not black).

I'm not totally up to date on what rockets the military is using these days, but these don't seem to fit anything I'm familiar with - a salvo launch doesn't seem consistent with anything 'guided', yet near vertical doesn't fit with anything 'unguided'.

So, does anyone have an idea what I saw?

TIA

Tim

From t.j.doll at att.net  Mon Sep 14 20:23:08 2009
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:23:08 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] NARAM 52
Message-ID: <091520090323.23828.4AAF089C0007E0C900005D1422216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

I just found out that NARAM 52 is going to be held in my old home town of Pueblo, Colorado next July.

WooHoo!  LDRS in California in June, NARAM in Colorado in July!  Life is good (money may become short though)!

So who else will be going?

I'll post some Pueblo restaurant and other recommendations when it gets close :-)

Tim

From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 21:11:46 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <091520090305.7759.4AAF046D000F122000001E4F22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
References: <091520090305.7759.4AAF046D000F122000001E4F22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
Message-ID: <192869.58387.qm@web110204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Talk about getting "the look". Don't let the wife use those when in the woods. Not only do you get the look but after the yelling you just might get a smack. They have alcohol in them. But yes they do work good to clean the cases in a pinch. I always figured if those baby wipes can get "that" off the babies butt they can get anything clean. And they are cheap.

John




________________________________
From: "t.j.doll at att.net" <t.j.doll at att.net>
To: Rocket Lost <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:05:18 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

>>Key to cleaning any motor IMO is clean immediately after flying.? The
>>longer you wait, the crustier it gets and harder it is to clean.
>>
>>+1 on baby wipes.

I've had good luck using those hand wipes in little sealed packages that get thrown in with box lunches.? Nice part is they last forever in the range box.

+1 on cleaning as soon as practical after flying.

Tim
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
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From appusher at q.com  Mon Sep 14 21:49:51 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 04:49:51 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W20D5386C8011DEA1CD44C4DCE30@phx.gbl>


I would not recommend putting the AT cases or any other aluminum in a dishwasher with said detergent.

 

It will eat away at the aluminum and weaken the structural strength.  Deterioration increases when there are pits, scratches, etc in the anodizing.  

Someone mentioned a bleaching effect in the anodizing.

 

Just wipe them with some alcohol if you want them to be REALLY clean.  I suggest leaving a bit of grease in the threads to keep them 'wet'.

Sorta like 'seasoning' cast iron skillet.  Not much sticks and even if you leave them for 'some time'  they will come cleaner easier.

 

My 2 cents,

 

Bill at PSP











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:35:36 -0700
> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
> 
> Can you put Aerotech motor casings and the enclosures in the dishwasher
> after you have wiped away the residue?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 23:08:45 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:08:45 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <BLU107-W20D5386C8011DEA1CD44C4DCE30@phx.gbl>
References: <e83b26700909141535o22cea7c3x8825cffa33060cf2@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU107-W20D5386C8011DEA1CD44C4DCE30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909142308x1e2d6b7bjf730c2382824b6c0@mail.gmail.com>

The Baby wipes I use are non alergenic natural care and have no alchohol
content what so ever.  My children have adverce reactions to most other
kinds of wipes.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:

> I would not recommend putting the AT cases or any other aluminum in a
> dishwasher with said detergent.
>
> It will eat away at the aluminum and weaken the structural strength.
> Deterioration increases when there are pits, scratches, etc in the
> anodizing.
> Someone mentioned a bleaching effect in the anodizing.
>
> Just wipe them with some alcohol if you want them to be REALLY clean.  I
> suggest leaving a bit of grease in the threads to keep them 'wet'.
> Sorta like 'seasoning' cast iron skillet.  Not much sticks and even if you
> leave them for 'some time'  they will come cleaner easier.
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> Bill at PSP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   [image: i'm] EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me<http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:35:36 -0700
> > From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
> >
> > Can you put Aerotech motor casings and the enclosures in the dishwasher
> > after you have wiped away the residue?
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>

From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 14 23:14:03 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:14:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Back Issue #84
In-Reply-To: <1322096020.1109581252961019502.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <20090914.131846.14337.227821@mailpop08.vgs.untd.com>
	<1322096020.1109581252961019502.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <94AA23F4C07B4005878D567C2A71C299@DellNotebook>

A, B, C, D,................................W, X, Y, Z

 

;-)

 

Cary, ask him if he is acquainted with Uncle Ulysses.

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:44 PM
To: cary4
Cc: Rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Extreme Rocketry Back Issue #84

 

 

 

Could my uncle Andy Jackson possibly convince you to put me in front of that
Armitage guy? 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "cary4" <cary4@ juno .com> 

To: Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 

Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:22:05 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 

Subject: [ RocketsNW ] Extreme Rocketry Back Issue #84 

 

 

Ok , New update. 

The list of available copies of Extreme Rocketry is now closed. 

I can't gaurantee you will receive a copy, (depending on how many issues 

Brent has available to him) 

But I will do my best to procure them for the following people: 

 

jjarmitage @ earthlink .net 

We would like at least 1 

John, Terri, Allyne and Michael 

 

 

andrewm @ hawkfeather .com 

One for me plz . 

 

barwickad @ gmail .com 

Hello Cary.  I would also be interested in a copy of ER No:  84. 

Andy Barwick 

 

 

mikeandkimwyvel @comcast.net 

I would like one copy please. 

Thanks, 

Mike Wyvel 

 

 

guentherchristopher @ gmail .com 

I would also Like to get 1 

Christopher Guenther 

 

 

4ahoser@ ispllc .net 

Bob Grossfeld 

Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory 

 

johnhawkins @ wavecable .com 

Hi Cary 

I would be interested in a copy of 84 also 

John Hawkins 

 

Thank You all! 

 

-Cary- 

_ _______________________________________________ ____________ 

Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! 

http :// thirdpartyoffers . juno .com/TGL2141/ fc
/BLSrjpTFoYaybdCTuKcoO1CmEzbM5L5gbApdpJKNzltyQWO3HCyIsQvyYFK/ 

_______________________________________________ 

Rockets mailing list 

Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 

http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets 

   

_______________________________________________

Rockets mailing list

Rockets at rocketsnw.com

http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

  


From winningstad at comcast.net  Mon Sep 14 23:40:18 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:40:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <192869.58387.qm@web110204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <091520090305.7759.4AAF046D000F122000001E4F22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
	<192869.58387.qm@web110204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <059001ca35cf$645895f0$2d09c1d0$@net>

Modern baby-wipes have no alcohol...

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of John Hornsby
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:12 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

Talk about getting "the look". Don't let the wife use those when in the
woods. Not only do you get the look but after the yelling you just might get
a smack. They have alcohol in them. But yes they do work good to clean the
cases in a pinch. I always figured if those baby wipes can get "that" off
the babies butt they can get anything clean. And they are cheap.

John




________________________________
From: "t.j.doll at att.net" <t.j.doll at att.net>
To: Rocket Lost <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:05:18 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

>>Key to cleaning any motor IMO is clean immediately after flying.? The
>>longer you wait, the crustier it gets and harder it is to clean.
>>
>>+1 on baby wipes.

I've had good luck using those hand wipes in little sealed packages that get
thrown in with box lunches.? Nice part is they last forever in the range
box.

+1 on cleaning as soon as practical after flying.

Tim
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 23:43:25 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:43:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?
In-Reply-To: <059001ca35cf$645895f0$2d09c1d0$@net>
References: <091520090305.7759.4AAF046D000F122000001E4F22216125569B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
	<192869.58387.qm@web110204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<059001ca35cf$645895f0$2d09c1d0$@net>
Message-ID: <228688.54451.qm@web110214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Not the baby wipes but the handi wipes. Those are the bad ones for the wife. Great for cases. Bad for the wife. :oI

John




________________________________
From: Dennis S Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>
To: John Hornsby <jhornsby3 at yahoo.com>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:40:18 PM
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

Modern baby-wipes have no alcohol...

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of John Hornsby
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:12 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

Talk about getting "the look". Don't let the wife use those when in the
woods. Not only do you get the look but after the yelling you just might get
a smack. They have alcohol in them. But yes they do work good to clean the
cases in a pinch. I always figured if those baby wipes can get "that" off
the babies butt they can get anything clean. And they are cheap.

John




________________________________
From: "t.j.doll at att.net" <t.j.doll at att.net>
To: Rocket Lost <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:05:18 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Cleaning Motor casings?

>>Key to cleaning any motor IMO is clean immediately after flying.? The
>>longer you wait, the crustier it gets and harder it is to clean.
>>
>>+1 on baby wipes.

I've had good luck using those hand wipes in little sealed packages that get
thrown in with box lunches.? Nice part is they last forever in the range
box.

+1 on cleaning as soon as practical after flying.

Tim
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


? ? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From joebevier at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 23:51:53 2009
From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:51:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Raptor launch video posted
Message-ID: <45717540909142351y2c710fd4g5f634590623bddce@mail.gmail.com>

I posted two videos one big HD and a smaller one with some notes on the
flight.  Enjoy!

-- 
Joe

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 00:06:33 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:06:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wilsonville Oregon monthly this weekend?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909150006i572bace9p70a0bb881ee82c64@mail.gmail.com>

Is that right this weekend?  Can I launch a suacer with a small H?

From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 02:46:43 2009
From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 05:46:43 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
Message-ID: <c6c.5640a6f6.37e0bc83@aol.com>

Speaking of the NW site how about going thru and updating some of the other 
pages besides the clubs and launch calendar.  The projects page has been 
the same for around the last 4-5 years and a good number of the links don't 
work anymore.

From greg at blastzone.com  Tue Sep 15 05:18:13 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 05:18:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <c6c.5640a6f6.37e0bc83@aol.com>
References: <c6c.5640a6f6.37e0bc83@aol.com>
Message-ID: <007f01ca35fe$99d07020$cd715060$@com>

That's exactly what we're talking about doing here.  Full site wipe and
reboot.

 

From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:47 AM
To: robert.krausert at intel.com; greg at blastzone.com;
angelawr at wrightholdings.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

 

Speaking of the NW site how about going thru and updating some of the other
pages besides the clubs and launch calendar.  The projects page has been the
same for around the last 4-5 years and a good number of the links don't work
anymore.


From greg at blastzone.com  Tue Sep 15 06:47:30 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:47:30 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <007f01ca35fe$99d07020$cd715060$@com>
References: <c6c.5640a6f6.37e0bc83@aol.com>
	<007f01ca35fe$99d07020$cd715060$@com>
Message-ID: <00d001ca360b$12a3df30$37eb9d90$@com>

So those who would be interested in helping out with this effort, please let
me know.   I've got 2 volunteers so far.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:18 AM
> To: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com; robert.krausert at intel.com;
> angelawr at wrightholdings.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> That's exactly what we're talking about doing here.  Full site wipe and
> reboot.
> 
> 
> 
> From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:47 AM
> To: robert.krausert at intel.com; greg at blastzone.com;
> angelawr at wrightholdings.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of the NW site how about going thru and updating some of the
other
> pages besides the clubs and launch calendar.  The projects page has been
the
> same for around the last 4-5 years and a good number of the links don't
work
> anymore.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 07:34:55 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 07:34:55 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Raptor launch video posted
In-Reply-To: <45717540909142351y2c710fd4g5f634590623bddce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45717540909142351y2c710fd4g5f634590623bddce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909150734x1897c088r22bd1e12c31942a6@mail.gmail.com>

Very Cool!

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 11:51 PM, Joe Bevier <joebevier at gmail.com> wrote:

> I posted two videos one big HD and a smaller one with some notes on the
> flight.  Enjoy!
>
> --
> Joe
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 08:02:23 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:02:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] I made and uploaded a Sheridan 2009 Video
Message-ID: <e83b26700909150802u54739b8fj27a242818ad91445@mail.gmail.com>

It is here in the image gallery or you can find it on YouTube by using this
URL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-i3XDkFDs

From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 15 10:35:39 2009
From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:35:39 -0600
Subject: [RocketsNW] M-1297 Nozzles
In-Reply-To: <186842.1350.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <186842.1350.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT115-DS51D49E05322895A47F742F0E30@phx.gbl>

When I talked with Karl from Aerotech about my M650 CATO last month he said 
that they were re-designing the M650 to use a single throat nozzle instead 
of the medusa one.  If it were me I wouldn't try anything except what they 
include with the reload.  That is unless you are OK with a CATO and no 
warranty.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jim Nietmann" <jimnietmann at verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:14 AM
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: [RocketsNW] M-1297 Nozzles

> Does anyone know if an AT M-1297 can use a medusa nozzle?  After I loaded 
> an M-1297 with a single throat nozzle into my second stage bird, the 
> interstage coupler will not completely engage due to the nozzle length. 
> Aerotech's website seems to be down, and I haven't been able to check if 
> they even make a shorter nozzle for that motor.
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 

From jimnietmann at verizon.net  Tue Sep 15 10:57:13 2009
From: jimnietmann at verizon.net (Jim Nietmann)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] M-1297 Nozzles
In-Reply-To: <SNT115-DS51D49E05322895A47F742F0E30@phx.gbl>
References: <186842.1350.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<SNT115-DS51D49E05322895A47F742F0E30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <473604.93111.qm@web84003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm planning on talking to Karl or Gary at XPRS before changing any motor parts.? If they don't give the thumbs up, then it doesn't fly.




________________________________
From: Jack Anderson <jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com>
To: Jim Nietmann <jimnietmann at verizon.net>; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:35:39 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] M-1297 Nozzles

When I talked with Karl from Aerotech about my M650 CATO last month he said that they were re-designing the M650 to use a single throat nozzle instead of the medusa one.? If it were me I wouldn't try anything except what they include with the reload.? That is unless you are OK with a CATO and no warranty.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jim Nietmann" <jimnietmann at verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:14 AM
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: [RocketsNW] M-1297 Nozzles

> Does anyone know if an AT M-1297 can use a medusa nozzle?? After I loaded an M-1297 with a single throat nozzle into my second stage bird, the interstage coupler will not completely engage due to the nozzle length. Aerotech's website seems to be down, and I haven't been able to check if they even make a shorter nozzle for that motor.
> 
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 

From fred.azinger at intel.com  Tue Sep 15 11:20:37 2009
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:20:37 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] M-1297 Nozzles
In-Reply-To: <SNT115-DS51D49E05322895A47F742F0E30@phx.gbl>
References: <186842.1350.qm@web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<SNT115-DS51D49E05322895A47F742F0E30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB5963192D@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

Maybe.....
Aerotech has moved some motors to/from medusa's without apparent grain changes.....
However, we are not privy to the burn info that Aerotech has to make the same move.
In theory, you could swap nozzle types if you kept the throat area equal....punching out the right number of holes in the medusa.
However....off the top of my head...I would suspect the medusa yields a higher circumference to throat ration than a single opening (need to think about the math behind the geometry) and thus the erosion behavior will differ.
Will it matter? 
Only Aerotech knows....until you try ;-)

FredA

PS: no time to think through the math right now....I could be off base.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Jack Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:36 AM
To: Jim Nietmann; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] M-1297 Nozzles

When I talked with Karl from Aerotech about my M650 CATO last month he said 
that they were re-designing the M650 to use a single throat nozzle instead 
of the medusa one.  If it were me I wouldn't try anything except what they 
include with the reload.  That is unless you are OK with a CATO and no 
warranty.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jim Nietmann" <jimnietmann at verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:14 AM
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: [RocketsNW] M-1297 Nozzles

> Does anyone know if an AT M-1297 can use a medusa nozzle?  After I loaded 
> an M-1297 with a single throat nozzle into my second stage bird, the 
> interstage coupler will not completely engage due to the nozzle length. 
> Aerotech's website seems to be down, and I haven't been able to check if 
> they even make a shorter nozzle for that motor.
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Tue Sep 15 14:52:06 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:52:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Sept meeting minutes...
Message-ID: <4AB00C86.5050700@hawkfeather.com>

...are available at:
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news0909.php

Andrew.

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Tue Sep 15 15:28:07 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:28:07 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <00d001ca360b$12a3df30$37eb9d90$@com>
References: <c6c.5640a6f6.37e0bc83@aol.com>
	<007f01ca35fe$99d07020$cd715060$@com>
	<00d001ca360b$12a3df30$37eb9d90$@com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A373C3@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

I currently use CMS at work. I'd be happy to help with this effort. Once we have assembled a team, I'll schedule a phone bridge for us to all discuss and develop ideas.

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:48 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry

So those who would be interested in helping out with this effort, please let
me know.   I've got 2 volunteers so far.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:18 AM
> To: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com; robert.krausert at intel.com;
> angelawr at wrightholdings.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> That's exactly what we're talking about doing here.  Full site wipe and
> reboot.
> 
> 
> 
> From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:47 AM
> To: robert.krausert at intel.com; greg at blastzone.com;
> angelawr at wrightholdings.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of the NW site how about going thru and updating some of the
other
> pages besides the clubs and launch calendar.  The projects page has been
the
> same for around the last 4-5 years and a good number of the links don't
work
> anymore.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 16:49:46 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:49:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A373C3@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <c6c.5640a6f6.37e0bc83@aol.com>
	<007f01ca35fe$99d07020$cd715060$@com>
	<00d001ca360b$12a3df30$37eb9d90$@com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A373C3@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909151649udb22482l42c1205941a2af@mail.gmail.com>

I can do some proof reading/editing.  Did anyone notice all the errors in
the newest Sport Rocketry, or was I just high on Rocket fumes?



On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Krausert, Robert <robert.krausert at intel.com
> wrote:

> I currently use CMS at work. I'd be happy to help with this effort. Once we
> have assembled a team, I'll schedule a phone bridge for us to all discuss
> and develop ideas.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:48 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
>
> So those who would be interested in helping out with this effort, please
> let
> me know.   I've got 2 volunteers so far.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:
> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:18 AM
> > To: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com; robert.krausert at intel.com;
> > angelawr at wrightholdings.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> > That's exactly what we're talking about doing here.  Full site wipe and
> > reboot.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:47 AM
> > To: robert.krausert at intel.com; greg at blastzone.com;
> > angelawr at wrightholdings.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HELP!! - Extreme Rocketry
> >
> >
> >
> > Speaking of the NW site how about going thru and updating some of the
> other
> > pages besides the clubs and launch calendar.  The projects page has been
> the
> > same for around the last 4-5 years and a good number of the links don't
> work
> > anymore.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 17:16:12 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:16:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas,
	feedback wanted)
Message-ID: <6D733685D33F47D0A5F5053CFCFE932B@LaptopKrausert>

Hello,
I'm not trying to step ahead or over step Greg Deputy. I just wanted to advise that we're looking to refresh and revise the current web site. This does mean a clean server. 

If you have or know of material on this site that you'd like to keep, please download them. To preserve a copy. I'll download everything just in case. 

We are currently assembling a web team to create and mantain the new site. I'll be setting up phone meetings with the web team to discuss ideas and formats. I do not expect the URL to change. 

Greg has been kind enough to help us in this effort. 

Here is a beginning list of potential navagation format; please feel free to chime in. The web team meeting may completely change this, but I'm tossing this idea out to get ideas going. 

Cheers, 
Robert

Articles:
 - Member Interviews
 - Getting Started (New / BAR)
 - Rocket Basics
 - Kit Basics
 - Scratch Built Basics
 - Fins and Fin Can
 - Materials (Epoxy and Fabrics)
 - Recovery 
 - Electronics / Altimeters
 - Tracking Devices
 - Delay Information
 - Ejection Charge
 - Launch Systems / Pads
 - Ignitors
 - Research 
 - On Board Cameras
 - Field Equipment 
 - Misc. Educational / Informative
 - Rods & Rails
 
Project Articles
 - Certification Projects
 - Research Projects
 - Complex Projects
 - Ground Support Equipment Projects
 - General Projects

Launches
 - Events Calendar
 - Event Announcements
 - Events Duties Sign-ups
 - Launch Reports (Clubs)
 - Launch Reports (Individual)

Multimedia Gallery (video / pictures)
 - Rockets 
 - Launches
 - Electronics
 - Ground Support Equipment
 - Testing 
 - General / People & Landscape
 - Article Images (for pix in articles)
 - Archive

General Information
 - About NorthwestRocketry.com
 - Clubs & Organizations
 - On Site Rocketry Vendors
 - Rocketry Material Suppliers
 - National Associations
 - Software Tools
 - Rocketry Magazines
 - Fun Stuff & Other
 - Contacts
 - Email Lists

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 18:01:38 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:01:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas,
	feedback wanted)
Message-ID: <ECA3A89D186B425D887086B24F4B92B0@LaptopKrausert>

One additional comment. Over time as the sites content grows we'll have a ad free, popup free, sign up free, and open to everyone reference web site for the world. We could easily have a site as it grows and matures that is viewed worldwide and thought of as a premier source of information. 

One additional Article: Painting & Finishing

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:16 PM
  Subject: Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas, feedback wanted)


  Hello,
  I'm not trying to step ahead or over step Greg Deputy. I just wanted to advise that we're looking to refresh and revise the current web site. This does mean a clean server. 

  If you have or know of material on this site that you'd like to keep, please download them. To preserve a copy. I'll download everything just in case. 

  We are currently assembling a web team to create and mantain the new site. I'll be setting up phone meetings with the web team to discuss ideas and formats. I do not expect the URL to change. 

  Greg has been kind enough to help us in this effort. 

  Here is a beginning list of potential navagation format; please feel free to chime in. The web team meeting may completely change this, but I'm tossing this idea out to get ideas going. 

  Cheers, 
  Robert

  Articles:
   - Member Interviews
   - Getting Started (New / BAR)
   - Rocket Basics
   - Kit Basics
   - Scratch Built Basics
   - Fins and Fin Can
   - Materials (Epoxy and Fabrics)
   - Recovery 
   - Electronics / Altimeters
   - Tracking Devices
   - Delay Information
   - Ejection Charge
   - Launch Systems / Pads
   - Ignitors
   - Research 
   - On Board Cameras
   - Field Equipment 
   - Misc. Educational / Informative
   - Rods & Rails

  Project Articles
   - Certification Projects
   - Research Projects
   - Complex Projects
   - Ground Support Equipment Projects
   - General Projects

  Launches
   - Events Calendar
   - Event Announcements
   - Events Duties Sign-ups
   - Launch Reports (Clubs)
   - Launch Reports (Individual)

  Multimedia Gallery (video / pictures)
   - Rockets 
   - Launches
   - Electronics
   - Ground Support Equipment
   - Testing 
   - General / People & Landscape
   - Article Images (for pix in articles)
   - Archive

  General Information
   - About NorthwestRocketry.com
   - Clubs & Organizations
   - On Site Rocketry Vendors
   - Rocketry Material Suppliers
   - National Associations
   - Software Tools
   - Rocketry Magazines
   - Fun Stuff & Other
   - Contacts
   - Email Lists

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Tue Sep 15 18:13:17 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:13:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Sept meeting minutes...
In-Reply-To: <4AB00C86.5050700@hawkfeather.com>
References: <4AB00C86.5050700@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <4AB03BAD.6070009@hawkfeather.com>

And from the wayback machine... the January minutes are now online:
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news0901.php

Andrew.

Andrew MacMillen wrote:
> ...are available at:
> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news0909.php
> 
> Andrew.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
> 

From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 20:52:51 2009
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:52:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig
	ideas, feedback wanted)
References: <ECA3A89D186B425D887086B24F4B92B0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <9E29D84377274709969950FE6C759318@TNTCENTER>

You might want to use categories and sub-categories.  For example, instead of having Launch Systems/Pads, Field Equipment, and Rods & Rails you can have those as sub-categories under GSE - Ground Support Equipment.  Same thing for Airframes, Construction Techniques, Flight Ops, etc.

It may take several go rounds to get it all organized coherently  --  There's a lot to this hobby!

Jeff Moore
BORG

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Robert Krausert 
To: Robert Krausert ; members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas,feedback wanted)


One additional comment. Over time as the sites content grows we'll have a ad free, popup free, sign up free, and open to everyone reference web site for the world. We could easily have a site as it grows and matures that is viewed worldwide and thought of as a premier source of information. 

One additional Article: Painting & Finishing

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:16 PM
  Subject: Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas, feedback wanted)


  Hello,
  I'm not trying to step ahead or over step Greg Deputy. I just wanted to advise that we're looking to refresh and revise the current web site. This does mean a clean server. 

  If you have or know of material on this site that you'd like to keep, please download them. To preserve a copy. I'll download everything just in case. 

  We are currently assembling a web team to create and mantain the new site. I'll be setting up phone meetings with the web team to discuss ideas and formats. I do not expect the URL to change. 

  Greg has been kind enough to help us in this effort. 

  Here is a beginning list of potential navagation format; please feel free to chime in. The web team meeting may completely change this, but I'm tossing this idea out to get ideas going. 

  Cheers, 
  Robert

  Articles:
   - Member Interviews
   - Getting Started (New / BAR)
   - Rocket Basics
   - Kit Basics
   - Scratch Built Basics
   - Fins and Fin Can
   - Materials (Epoxy and Fabrics)
   - Recovery 
   - Electronics / Altimeters
   - Tracking Devices
   - Delay Information
   - Ejection Charge
   - Launch Systems / Pads
   - Ignitors
   - Research 
   - On Board Cameras
   - Field Equipment 
   - Misc. Educational / Informative
   - Rods & Rails

  Project Articles
   - Certification Projects
   - Research Projects
   - Complex Projects
   - Ground Support Equipment Projects
   - General Projects

  Launches
   - Events Calendar
   - Event Announcements
   - Events Duties Sign-ups
   - Launch Reports (Clubs)
   - Launch Reports (Individual)

  Multimedia Gallery (video / pictures)
   - Rockets 
   - Launches
   - Electronics
   - Ground Support Equipment
   - Testing 
   - General / People & Landscape
   - Article Images (for pix in articles)
   - Archive

  General Information
   - About NorthwestRocketry.com
   - Clubs & Organizations
   - On Site Rocketry Vendors
   - Rocketry Material Suppliers
   - National Associations
   - Software Tools
   - Rocketry Magazines
   - Fun Stuff & Other
   - Contacts
   - Email Lists


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Members mailing list
Members at oregonrocketry.org
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members

From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Tue Sep 15 22:11:54 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:11:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas,
	feedback wanted)
In-Reply-To: <ECA3A89D186B425D887086B24F4B92B0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <1F93B9C82C8041D9BB4306F6BDAA66AC@steve>

Open to all comment scares me.  

Open source with some level of validation for content posted is more
appropriate, but who decides?

How about a filtering means where subscribers can thumbs-up or
thumbs-down submissions, so each category in essence has an inbox where
articles can be peer reviewed then permanently posted if scores warrant.

Ah, then you need bounds, templates and soon it becomes a trap -
anything short of stellar becomes lame.

/Steve

----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:02 PM
To: Robert Krausert; members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig
ideas,feedback wanted)

One additional comment. Over time as the sites content grows we'll have
a ad free, popup free, sign up free, and open to everyone reference web
site for the world. We could easily have a site as it grows and matures
that is viewed worldwide and thought of as a premier source of
information. 

One additional Article: Painting & Finishing

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:16 PM
  Subject: Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas, feedback wanted)


  Hello,
  I'm not trying to step ahead or over step Greg Deputy. I just wanted
to advise that we're looking to refresh and revise the current web site.
This does mean a clean server. 

  If you have or know of material on this site that you'd like to keep,
please download them. To preserve a copy. I'll download everything just
in case. 

  We are currently assembling a web team to create and mantain the new
site. I'll be setting up phone meetings with the web team to discuss
ideas and formats. I do not expect the URL to change. 

  Greg has been kind enough to help us in this effort. 

  Here is a beginning list of potential navagation format; please feel
free to chime in. The web team meeting may completely change this, but
I'm tossing this idea out to get ideas going. 

  Cheers, 
  Robert

  Articles:
   - Member Interviews
   - Getting Started (New / BAR)
   - Rocket Basics
   - Kit Basics
   - Scratch Built Basics
   - Fins and Fin Can
   - Materials (Epoxy and Fabrics)
   - Recovery 
   - Electronics / Altimeters
   - Tracking Devices
   - Delay Information
   - Ejection Charge
   - Launch Systems / Pads
   - Ignitors
   - Research 
   - On Board Cameras
   - Field Equipment 
   - Misc. Educational / Informative
   - Rods & Rails

  Project Articles
   - Certification Projects
   - Research Projects
   - Complex Projects
   - Ground Support Equipment Projects
   - General Projects

  Launches
   - Events Calendar
   - Event Announcements
   - Events Duties Sign-ups
   - Launch Reports (Clubs)
   - Launch Reports (Individual)

  Multimedia Gallery (video / pictures)
   - Rockets 
   - Launches
   - Electronics
   - Ground Support Equipment
   - Testing 
   - General / People & Landscape
   - Article Images (for pix in articles)
   - Archive

  General Information
   - About NorthwestRocketry.com
   - Clubs & Organizations
   - On Site Rocketry Vendors
   - Rocketry Material Suppliers
   - National Associations
   - Software Tools
   - Rocketry Magazines
   - Fun Stuff & Other
   - Contacts
   - Email Lists
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 22:32:50 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:32:50 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas,
	feedback wanted)
References: <1F93B9C82C8041D9BB4306F6BDAA66AC@steve>
Message-ID: <70D0E5CD517441858BE5078F2956CAF3@LaptopKrausert>

I disagree in part, but truly hold your concern to sensible reasoning.

Using CMS, we can create peer reviewers. If you'd like to do that sign up. 
If not, then all we can do is post and await feedback and edit as necessary. 
I'm not out to change the world. But find a source for information. Beyond 
what we have today.

Steve, you experience and knowledge... I'd look to you for help with many 
articles. But I do not want scare someone off from submitting an article 
just because they may not hold all the answers. That is what this new site 
is all about. Article can grow and improve via feedback. That said, I still 
want articles to be submitted.

We can have a great reference site for everyone if we all work together to 
keep improving it and the content.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Cutonilli" <steve-c at ix.netcom.com>
To: "'Robert Krausert'" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>; 
<members at oregonrocketry.org>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:11 PM
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas,feedback 
wanted)


> Open to all comment scares me.
>
> Open source with some level of validation for content posted is more
> appropriate, but who decides?
>
> How about a filtering means where subscribers can thumbs-up or
> thumbs-down submissions, so each category in essence has an inbox where
> articles can be peer reviewed then permanently posted if scores warrant.
>
> Ah, then you need bounds, templates and soon it becomes a trap -
> anything short of stellar becomes lame.
>
> /Steve
>
> ----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:02 PM
> To: Robert Krausert; members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig
> ideas,feedback wanted)
>
> One additional comment. Over time as the sites content grows we'll have
> a ad free, popup free, sign up free, and open to everyone reference web
> site for the world. We could easily have a site as it grows and matures
> that is viewed worldwide and thought of as a premier source of
> information.
>
> One additional Article: Painting & Finishing
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Robert Krausert
>  To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:16 PM
>  Subject: Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas, feedback wanted)
>
>
>  Hello,
>  I'm not trying to step ahead or over step Greg Deputy. I just wanted
> to advise that we're looking to refresh and revise the current web site.
> This does mean a clean server.
>
>  If you have or know of material on this site that you'd like to keep,
> please download them. To preserve a copy. I'll download everything just
> in case.
>
>  We are currently assembling a web team to create and mantain the new
> site. I'll be setting up phone meetings with the web team to discuss
> ideas and formats. I do not expect the URL to change.
>
>  Greg has been kind enough to help us in this effort.
>
>  Here is a beginning list of potential navagation format; please feel
> free to chime in. The web team meeting may completely change this, but
> I'm tossing this idea out to get ideas going.
>
>  Cheers,
>  Robert
>
>  Articles:
>   - Member Interviews
>   - Getting Started (New / BAR)
>   - Rocket Basics
>   - Kit Basics
>   - Scratch Built Basics
>   - Fins and Fin Can
>   - Materials (Epoxy and Fabrics)
>   - Recovery
>   - Electronics / Altimeters
>   - Tracking Devices
>   - Delay Information
>   - Ejection Charge
>   - Launch Systems / Pads
>   - Ignitors
>   - Research
>   - On Board Cameras
>   - Field Equipment
>   - Misc. Educational / Informative
>   - Rods & Rails
>
>  Project Articles
>   - Certification Projects
>   - Research Projects
>   - Complex Projects
>   - Ground Support Equipment Projects
>   - General Projects
>
>  Launches
>   - Events Calendar
>   - Event Announcements
>   - Events Duties Sign-ups
>   - Launch Reports (Clubs)
>   - Launch Reports (Individual)
>
>  Multimedia Gallery (video / pictures)
>   - Rockets
>   - Launches
>   - Electronics
>   - Ground Support Equipment
>   - Testing
>   - General / People & Landscape
>   - Article Images (for pix in articles)
>   - Archive
>
>  General Information
>   - About NorthwestRocketry.com
>   - Clubs & Organizations
>   - On Site Rocketry Vendors
>   - Rocketry Material Suppliers
>   - National Associations
>   - Software Tools
>   - Rocketry Magazines
>   - Fun Stuff & Other
>   - Contacts
>   - Email Lists
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 23:19:54 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:19:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] L2 Cert Project Under Way
Message-ID: <e83b26700909152319m10934ebchb3ea3da2a7347cb@mail.gmail.com>

I have decided to go Scratch for my L2 Cert.  I have acquired two 36"x4"
phenolic tubes, a tail cone, three 3.9"-2.14" centering rings, a 6"x3.9"
coupler, one square yard of fiberglass, a 48" chute, and a 54mm/38mm motor
mount.  I have also started two different designs using these materials.
Both being stable and having great sim flights.  My only issue is my trial
of rocksim runs out in 9 days.  I would like to get my hand on a nose cone
and fin material, maybe even a 54mm motor mount.  Any ideas out there?

From Simpsonclark at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 08:31:55 2009
From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:31:55 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas,
	feedback wanted)
Message-ID: <c31.62ba6173.37e25eeb@aol.com>

Submissions definitely need to be peer reviewed by a small group  
appropriate to the subject before publication.  Three reasons: 1) to  maintain 
quality  2) to avoid possibly humiliating public criticism (not  that members ever 
nit pick obvious slips!) and 3) to avoid liability in the  event of a 
dangerous procedure.  Similarly, response (in this format)  should be editor's 
pick of letters, not a free-for-all.
-Robert
 
 
In a message dated 9/15/2009 5:45:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

Hello,
I'm not trying to step ahead or over step Greg Deputy. I just  wanted to 
advise that we're looking to refresh and revise the current web  site. This 
does mean a clean server. 

If you have or know of material  on this site that you'd like to keep, 
please download them. To preserve a  copy. I'll download everything just in 
case. 

We are currently  assembling a web team to create and mantain the new site. 
I'll be setting up  phone meetings with the web team to discuss ideas and 
formats. I do not expect  the URL to change. 

Greg has been kind enough to help us in this  effort. 

Here is a beginning list of potential navagation format;  please feel free 
to chime in. The web team meeting may completely change this,  but I'm 
tossing this idea out to get ideas going. 

Cheers,  
Robert

Articles:
- Member Interviews
- Getting Started (New /  BAR)
- Rocket Basics
- Kit Basics
- Scratch Built Basics
- Fins  and Fin Can
- Materials (Epoxy and Fabrics)
- Recovery 
- Electronics  / Altimeters
- Tracking Devices
- Delay Information
- Ejection  Charge
- Launch Systems / Pads
- Ignitors
- Research 
- On Board  Cameras
- Field Equipment 
- Misc. Educational / Informative
- Rods  & Rails

Project Articles
- Certification Projects
- Research  Projects
- Complex Projects
- Ground Support Equipment Projects
-  General Projects

Launches
- Events Calendar
- Event  Announcements
- Events Duties Sign-ups
- Launch Reports (Clubs)
-  Launch Reports (Individual)

Multimedia Gallery (video / pictures)
-  Rockets 
- Launches
- Electronics
- Ground Support Equipment
-  Testing 
- General / People & Landscape
- Article Images (for pix in  articles)
- Archive

General Information
- About  NorthwestRocketry.com
- Clubs & Organizations
- On Site Rocketry  Vendors
- Rocketry Material Suppliers
- National Associations
-  Software Tools
- Rocketry Magazines
- Fun Stuff & Other
-  Contacts
- Email  Lists
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 09:45:57 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:45:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Website (sharinig ideas,
	feedback 	wanted)
In-Reply-To: <c31.62ba6173.37e25eeb@aol.com>
References: <c31.62ba6173.37e25eeb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909160945j12bf957pebb4fe3f692f1e5f@mail.gmail.com>

I can proof read and edit any letters sent to me.

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:31 AM, <Simpsonclark at aol.com> wrote:

> Submissions definitely need to be peer reviewed by a small group
> appropriate to the subject before publication.  Three reasons: 1) to
>  maintain
> quality  2) to avoid possibly humiliating public criticism (not  that
> members ever
> nit pick obvious slips!) and 3) to avoid liability in the  event of a
> dangerous procedure.  Similarly, response (in this format)  should be
> editor's
> pick of letters, not a free-for-all.
> -Robert
>
>
> In a message dated 9/15/2009 5:45:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:
>
> Hello,
> I'm not trying to step ahead or over step Greg Deputy. I just  wanted to
> advise that we're looking to refresh and revise the current web  site. This
> does mean a clean server.
>
> If you have or know of material  on this site that you'd like to keep,
> please download them. To preserve a  copy. I'll download everything just in
> case.
>
> We are currently  assembling a web team to create and mantain the new site.
> I'll be setting up  phone meetings with the web team to discuss ideas and
> formats. I do not expect  the URL to change.
>
> Greg has been kind enough to help us in this  effort.
>
> Here is a beginning list of potential navagation format;  please feel free
> to chime in. The web team meeting may completely change this,  but I'm
> tossing this idea out to get ideas going.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> Articles:
> - Member Interviews
> - Getting Started (New /  BAR)
> - Rocket Basics
> - Kit Basics
> - Scratch Built Basics
> - Fins  and Fin Can
> - Materials (Epoxy and Fabrics)
> - Recovery
> - Electronics  / Altimeters
> - Tracking Devices
> - Delay Information
> - Ejection  Charge
> - Launch Systems / Pads
> - Ignitors
> - Research
> - On Board  Cameras
> - Field Equipment
> - Misc. Educational / Informative
> - Rods  & Rails
>
> Project Articles
> - Certification Projects
> - Research  Projects
> - Complex Projects
> - Ground Support Equipment Projects
> -  General Projects
>
> Launches
> - Events Calendar
> - Event  Announcements
> - Events Duties Sign-ups
> - Launch Reports (Clubs)
> -  Launch Reports (Individual)
>
> Multimedia Gallery (video / pictures)
> -  Rockets
> - Launches
> - Electronics
> - Ground Support Equipment
> -  Testing
> - General / People & Landscape
> - Article Images (for pix in  articles)
> - Archive
>
> General Information
> - About  NorthwestRocketry.com
> - Clubs & Organizations
> - On Site Rocketry  Vendors
> - Rocketry Material Suppliers
> - National Associations
> -  Software Tools
> - Rocketry Magazines
> - Fun Stuff & Other
> -  Contacts
> - Email  Lists
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From aaron.l.evans at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 10:39:18 2009
From: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com (Aaron Evans)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:39:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
Message-ID: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>

I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting for
Washington Aerospace.

I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed I
was to the meeting.

And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.

 

As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. But
a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.

I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
basic questions.

And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
have already come up many times before.

But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.

 

With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.

 

I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
can use for a level 1 certification. 

At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
looking for an easy to slap together kit.

I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit as-is.

So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what needs
to be modified.

 

I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.

I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to really
like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about it.

 

I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
questions I currently don't know to ask.

As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.

 

Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance to
meet more of you soon.

 

- Aaron

 

 

 


From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 11:02:00 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:02:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W2547F7DA43BDE1CA652943A6E20@phx.gbl>


Aaron,

Come out to the launch at Mansfield this weekend. You'll see a variety of rocket designs, building styles, and meet many folks willing to share info. Plus get to see some really cool flights. 

 

Mark Lyons
 
> From: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:39:18 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
> 
> I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting for
> Washington Aerospace.
> 
> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed I
> was to the meeting.
> 
> And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
> 
> 
> 
> As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. But
> a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
> 
> I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> basic questions.
> 
> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> have already come up many times before.
> 
> But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
> 
> 
> 
> With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
> can use for a level 1 certification. 
> 
> At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> looking for an easy to slap together kit.
> 
> I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit as-is.
> 
> So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what needs
> to be modified.
> 
> 
> 
> I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
> favor of using rail guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
> 
> I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to really
> like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> questions I currently don't know to ask.
> 
> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance to
> meet more of you soon.
> 
> 
> 
> - Aaron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Wed Sep 16 11:05:28 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:05:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A37A2E@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Aaron, 
Let me first start off by saying, Welcome to the Pacific Northwest rocketry community. You and I are surrounded on this list by some incredibly talented people. I'd say some of the best amateur and high power rocketeers in the world. Second, you need not apologize. I've been involved with high power now for 5 years, and still ask questions. If I didn't ask and made a terrible mistake, then I'd likely begin earning a reputation I hope never to get. If I notice the crowd holding 1/2" thick plate steel over their heads to protect themselves when I fly my rockets, I know I got that reputation. Those I mentioned a moment ago, as incredibly talented people, also occasionally ask questions. 

So welcome back to the hobby. Enjoy the ride. Good luck on your L1 certification.

Cheers, 
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Evans
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:39 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction

I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting for
Washington Aerospace.

I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed I
was to the meeting.

And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.

 

As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. But
a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.

I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
basic questions.

And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
have already come up many times before.

But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.

 

With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.

 

I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
can use for a level 1 certification. 

At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
looking for an easy to slap together kit.

I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit as-is.

So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what needs
to be modified.

 

I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.

I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to really
like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about it.

 

I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
questions I currently don't know to ask.

As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.

 

Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance to
meet more of you soon.

 

- Aaron

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 12:01:47 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:01:47 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] L2 Cert Project Under Way
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300293@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <e83b26700909152319m10934ebchb3ea3da2a7347cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300293@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909161201l4c79aafaia5346b574f73dcb4@mail.gmail.com>

I have decided to run a 54mm motor mount tube from the tail cone to the bulk
head with a baffle near the bulk head.  In this way I will eliminate the
need for wading/dog barf.  Any Ideas on that are welcome as well.



On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Schurke, Peter <
pmschurke at seattleschools.org> wrote:

> go to your local hobby store and pick up some aircraft grade plywood.  I
> think I went 3/16" with my L2 bird, but I'm not 100% sure.  The many layers
> laminated together give it strength in all directions, so you don't have to
> worry as much about having a weak dimension (like with balsa).  It's cheap,
> easy to work, and if you're the least bit paranoid about it holding together
> (which it will, no problem) you can always tip-to-tip glass the fin can with
> whatever fiberglass you have left after you glass your airframe.
>
> Your other realistic option is to order G-10 fiberglass fins precut to one
> of a dozen shapes.  Giant Leap rocketry, Hawk Mountain Rocketry, and a few
> others will produce fins with custom slot depths based on your build--but
> you pay for it.  Far more expensive than a sheet of plywood, but great
> strength.
>
> Any piece of 54mm tubing will double as a motor mount--2.17" airframe
> material and 54mm motor mount material are the same thing.  If you have a
> 54mm motor retainer and a 54-->38mm adapter you can fly anything at either
> size.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St.
> Seattle, WA  98133
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Tue 9/15/2009 11:19 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] L2 Cert Project Under Way
>
>
>
> I have decided to go Scratch for my L2 Cert.  I have acquired two 36"x4"
> phenolic tubes, a tail cone, three 3.9"-2.14" centering rings, a 6"x3.9"
> coupler, one square yard of fiberglass, a 48" chute, and a 54mm/38mm motor
> mount.  I have also started two different designs using these materials.
> Both being stable and having great sim flights.  My only issue is my trial
> of rocksim runs out in 9 days.  I would like to get my hand on a nose cone
> and fin material, maybe even a 54mm motor mount.  Any ideas out there?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
>

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 12:15:39 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:15:39 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
Message-ID: <bff.6778b39d.37e2935b@aol.com>

Aaron,
 
I'd suggest looking at some Binder Design kits.  They'll get you your  
level 1 without modification, just build from the instructions.  Some of  the 
upgrades like rail buttons, tubular nylon harness, and premium parachute are  
included, and no piston hassles.  Eye-bolts are fine for L1 and L2 and I  
fly forged for L3 power.  You'll tear up a lot of other stuff before you  open 
up an eye-bolt.  I think a bigger concern with eye-bolts is  making sure to 
use lock-tite or epoxy on the threads.  I've seen more fail  that way 
because of unscrewing during descent.
 
Either way you decide to go, best of luck to you.
 
Mike Fisher
Binder Design
_http://binderdesign.com_ (http://binderdesign.com) 
 
 
In a message dated 9/16/2009 10:47:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
aaron.l.evans at gmail.com writes:

I had to  opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting  
for
Washington Aerospace.

I wanted to comment on how impressed I was  with everybody and how welcomed 
I
was to the meeting.

And I wanted  to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.



As  I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. But
a  lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.

I'll apologize in  advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
basic  questions.

And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps  these questions
have already come up many times before.

But I  appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to  offer.



With that in mind, here is my first request to the  group.



I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High  Power Rocket that I
can use for a level 1 certification. 

At this  point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
looking  for an easy to slap together kit.

I've picked up that, it seems, few  people would actually build a kit as-is.

So I'm looking for advice on  what to look for, what to avoid, and what 
needs
to be  modified.



I've picked up a few suggestions already about  tossing the launch lugs in
favor of using rail  guides, and using U  bolts instead of eye bolts.

I've been looking at some kits from Public  Missiles Ltd. They seem to 
really
like their Piston Deployment System. But  I've heard mixed reviews about it.



I realize I'm casting a  pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
hoping to use this to learn  more about the subjects and uncover the
questions I currently don't know to  ask.

As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I  have.



Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope  to get a chance 
to
meet more of you soon.



-  Aaron







_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From bar0051 at homenetnw.net  Wed Sep 16 12:20:02 2009
From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:20:02 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop>

Welcome back to rocketry.  I to am a B.A.R. and when I attended my first WAC 
launch I drove them nuts with questions.  But if you don't ask, you won't 
learn.  Like Mark said, come to the launch this weekend and feel free to ask 
all the questions you want.
I think everyone would agree that rail buttons are the way to go.  Make sure 
not to use the metal ones as I believe that WAC has a rule against using 
them on club rails.
As for your first HP rocket, you will get a lot of different ideas.  You may 
want to consider one that could be used for both level 1 & level 2.  You may 
not be thinking about level 2 now but once you are fully addicted to AP you 
will get there :)

Bryon Schopp

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Evans" <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:39 AM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction


>I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting 
>for
> Washington Aerospace.
>
> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed 
> I
> was to the meeting.
>
> And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
>
>
>
> As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. 
> But
> a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>
> I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> basic questions.
>
> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> have already come up many times before.
>
> But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>
>
>
> With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>
>
>
> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
> can use for a level 1 certification.
>
> At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>
> I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit 
> as-is.
>
> So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what 
> needs
> to be modified.
>
>
>
> I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
> favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>
> I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to 
> really
> like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about 
> it.
>
>
>
> I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> questions I currently don't know to ask.
>
> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance 
> to
> meet more of you soon.
>
>
>
> - Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 



From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Wed Sep 16 13:00:51 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:00:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield Launch this weekend
In-Reply-To: <3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
	<3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB2C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Hey all,

My students are coming out to the launch at Mansfield this
weekend--unfortunately without me (prior commitments I couldn't wiggle
out of).  Their former Team President, now an Alumni, will be leading
them for me, and their former Chief Designer (also now an alumnae, she
herself is L2 certified) will be there to help keep themselves safe.

One young lady in particular has built a rocket she's planning to
certify L1/L2 with.  Should be exciting...except that it dawned on me
today during lunch that I forgot to order her a set of rail buttons.
Her LOC kit came with a really impressive looking 1/2" launch lug that
is next to worthless out on the range--no matter how hard she tries I
don't think it's going to fit into those rails...  :-P

If someone would be so kind as to bring along an extra set of buttons
for her, I'd be much obliged.

Oh...and I wouldn't be the least surprised if the students brought
cookies again...they tend to do that!

Peter Schurke 
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor 
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy 
Ingraham High School 
1819 N 135th St 
Seattle, WA  98133 


From carl at mousetrap.com  Wed Sep 16 13:07:51 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:07:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield Launch this weekend
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB2C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
	<3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB2C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909161307h23078246kdef92d1be687ed99@mail.gmail.com>

Peter -
Looking forward to seeing your students at the launch. I'd be more than
happy to trade a pair of rail buttons for a cookie.

 - Carl

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Schurke, Peter <
pmschurke at seattleschools.org> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> My students are coming out to the launch at Mansfield this
> weekend--unfortunately without me (prior commitments I couldn't wiggle
> out of).  Their former Team President, now an Alumni, will be leading
> them for me, and their former Chief Designer (also now an alumnae, she
> herself is L2 certified) will be there to help keep themselves safe.
>
> One young lady in particular has built a rocket she's planning to
> certify L1/L2 with.  Should be exciting...except that it dawned on me
> today during lunch that I forgot to order her a set of rail buttons.
> Her LOC kit came with a really impressive looking 1/2" launch lug that
> is next to worthless out on the range--no matter how hard she tries I
> don't think it's going to fit into those rails...  :-P
>
> If someone would be so kind as to bring along an extra set of buttons
> for her, I'd be much obliged.
>
> Oh...and I wouldn't be the least surprised if the students brought
> cookies again...they tend to do that!
>
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St
> Seattle, WA  98133
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From sealtee at cableone.net  Wed Sep 16 13:23:19 2009
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:23:19 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
Message-ID: <000901ca370b$883d09f0$98b71dd0$@net>

 Hey Aaron,

 

Welcome! As A fellow BAR after more than 30 years myself,  I feel that I am
quite qualified to tell you that this group has some of the brightest minds
(albeit a little twisted, and I mean that in a good way!) you will find
anywhere in the world. As Mark said, come to the Mansfield launch this
weekend where everyone is friendly, willing to help and willing to share. I
got my L1 at Mansfield this last spring and I plan to do my L2 this weekend.
As far as what should you do for your L1 project? Wow! That depends on you.
Some say "low and slow", others like modified kits others will do their cert
flights on entirely scratch built. There is no wrong way. My advice, come to
Mansfield this weekend. Wander around, introduce yourself and check out some
of the projects that other have brought. I can't think of anything else that
will get your "thinker" going faster than that! The rocket that I first
built for my L1 (A Black Bryant VB from PML) I still have not flown! Instead
I have built and flown 6 others, two of which are scratch built and are
starting to accumulate frequent flier miles! An 7th rocket (A 4 inch V-2)
will be flown for the first time this weekend. My point here is your
perspective will change once you go to one of these launches. Also, you
might find it a very good investment to buy one of the simulation softwares
out there, the most common, I believe, is Rocksim from Apogee, it is the one
I use.

 

Once again, welcome, hope to see you at Mansfield!

 

Cameron L. Tinder

 

 

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:39:18 -0700

From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>

To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>

Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction

Message-ID: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c at mx.google.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii"

 

I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting for
Washington Aerospace.

I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed I
was to the meeting.

And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.

As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. But
a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.

I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
basic questions.

And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
have already come up many times before.

But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer. With
that in mind, here is my first request to the group. I'm in the process of
selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I can use for a level 1
certification. At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but
I'm not just looking for an easy to slap together kit. I've picked up that,
it seems, few people would actually build a kit as-is.

So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what needs
to be modified.

 I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.

I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to really
like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about it.

I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
questions I currently don't know to ask.

As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.

 

Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance to
meet more of you soon.

 

 

 

- Aaron

 


From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Wed Sep 16 14:48:34 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:48:34 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS L3
Message-ID: <4AB15D32.60009@hawkfeather.com>

Better late than never... Here's the info on my L3 cert flight at FITS.

http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/l3/flight_090523.html

Andrew.

From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 14:57:07 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:57:07 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield Launch this weekend
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB2C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
	<3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop> 
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB2C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W9BE718762DC5BFE8170CDA6E20@phx.gbl>


Gotcha covered Peter.

 

Mark
 
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:00:51 -0700
> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> To: bar0051 at homenetnw.net; aaron.l.evans at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield Launch this weekend
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> My students are coming out to the launch at Mansfield this
> weekend--unfortunately without me (prior commitments I couldn't wiggle
> out of). Their former Team President, now an Alumni, will be leading
> them for me, and their former Chief Designer (also now an alumnae, she
> herself is L2 certified) will be there to help keep themselves safe.
> 
> One young lady in particular has built a rocket she's planning to
> certify L1/L2 with. Should be exciting...except that it dawned on me
> today during lunch that I forgot to order her a set of rail buttons.
> Her LOC kit came with a really impressive looking 1/2" launch lug that
> is next to worthless out on the range--no matter how hard she tries I
> don't think it's going to fit into those rails... :-P
> 
> If someone would be so kind as to bring along an extra set of buttons
> for her, I'd be much obliged.
> 
> Oh...and I wouldn't be the least surprised if the students brought
> cookies again...they tend to do that!
> 
> Peter Schurke 
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor 
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy 
> Ingraham High School 
> 1819 N 135th St 
> Seattle, WA 98133 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From winningstad at comcast.net  Wed Sep 16 15:09:48 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:09:48 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS L3
In-Reply-To: <4AB15D32.60009@hawkfeather.com>
References: <4AB15D32.60009@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <088201ca371a$687c62a0$397527e0$@net>

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:49 PM
To: NorthWest Rocketry
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS L3

Better late than never... Here's the info on my L3 cert flight at FITS.

http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/l3/flight_090523.html

Andrew.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From sealtee at cableone.net  Wed Sep 16 15:29:29 2009
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:29:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
Message-ID: <001101ca371d$28220d60$78662820$@net>

I have just come to the startling conclusion that I need but do not have, an
extended forward closure for my Aerotech 54mm 2560 case. I am planning my L2
flight of my Modified Jayhawk this weekend at Mansfield using a K270. Though
there is no mention of the need for an extended forward closure in the
directions, I can clearly see that one is needed for the longer smoke grain.
Looks like one could conceivably cut the smoke grain down to fit, or I
suppose that grease could be put in place of the smoke grain altogether, but
I would rather not do this. So, I ask, might there be someone that will be
attending the Mansfield launch would be willing to loan me said enclosure
for this flight? 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Cameron Tinder

 


From sealtee at cableone.net  Wed Sep 16 15:36:38 2009
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:36:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extended forward enclosure
Message-ID: <001601ca371e$28198c70$784ca550$@net>

I lied! 

 

There is mention of the need for this  extended forward enclosure in the
directions. The problem is that I actually had to read that part!

 

Cameron


From sealtee at cableone.net  Wed Sep 16 15:38:38 2009
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:38:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0909161531v34dfef63qc5b46c235b552e04@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001101ca371d$28220d60$78662820$@net>
	<e068dfbd0909161531v34dfef63qc5b46c235b552e04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002401ca371e$6f5b9560$4e12c020$@net>

Thanks Carl!

 

See you in Mansfield!

 

Cameron

 

From: Carl Hamilton [mailto:carl at mousetrap.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:32 PM
To: Cameron Tinder
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure

 

Cameron -

 

I have such a closure and it will be with me at the launch. You are more than welcome to borrow it.

 

 - Carl

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net> wrote:

I have just come to the startling conclusion that I need but do not have, an
extended forward closure for my Aerotech 54mm 2560 case. I am planning my L2
flight of my Modified Jayhawk this weekend at Mansfield using a K270. Though
there is no mention of the need for an extended forward closure in the
directions, I can clearly see that one is needed for the longer smoke grain.
Looks like one could conceivably cut the smoke grain down to fit, or I
suppose that grease could be put in place of the smoke grain altogether, but
I would rather not do this. So, I ask, might there be someone that will be
attending the Mansfield launch would be willing to loan me said enclosure
for this flight?



Thanks in advance,



Cameron Tinder



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

 


From carl at mousetrap.com  Wed Sep 16 15:31:50 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:31:50 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
In-Reply-To: <001101ca371d$28220d60$78662820$@net>
References: <001101ca371d$28220d60$78662820$@net>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909161531v34dfef63qc5b46c235b552e04@mail.gmail.com>

Cameron -
I have such a closure and it will be with me at the launch. You are more
than welcome to borrow it.

 - Carl

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net>wrote:

> I have just come to the startling conclusion that I need but do not have,
> an
> extended forward closure for my Aerotech 54mm 2560 case. I am planning my
> L2
> flight of my Modified Jayhawk this weekend at Mansfield using a K270.
> Though
> there is no mention of the need for an extended forward closure in the
> directions, I can clearly see that one is needed for the longer smoke
> grain.
> Looks like one could conceivably cut the smoke grain down to fit, or I
> suppose that grease could be put in place of the smoke grain altogether,
> but
> I would rather not do this. So, I ask, might there be someone that will be
> attending the Mansfield launch would be willing to loan me said enclosure
> for this flight?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
> Cameron Tinder
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Wed Sep 16 15:41:57 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:41:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
In-Reply-To: <002401ca371e$6f5b9560$4e12c020$@net>
References: <001101ca371d$28220d60$78662820$@net>
	<e068dfbd0909161531v34dfef63qc5b46c235b552e04@mail.gmail.com>
	<002401ca371e$6f5b9560$4e12c020$@net>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A37E1F@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Maybe Carl should get a cookie. ;-)

Have a great launch. Wish I was there.

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Cameron Tinder
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:39 PM
To: 'Carl Hamilton'
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure

Thanks Carl!

 

See you in Mansfield!

 

Cameron

 

From: Carl Hamilton [mailto:carl at mousetrap.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:32 PM
To: Cameron Tinder
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure

 

Cameron -

 

I have such a closure and it will be with me at the launch. You are more than welcome to borrow it.

 

 - Carl

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net> wrote:

I have just come to the startling conclusion that I need but do not have, an
extended forward closure for my Aerotech 54mm 2560 case. I am planning my L2
flight of my Modified Jayhawk this weekend at Mansfield using a K270. Though
there is no mention of the need for an extended forward closure in the
directions, I can clearly see that one is needed for the longer smoke grain.
Looks like one could conceivably cut the smoke grain down to fit, or I
suppose that grease could be put in place of the smoke grain altogether, but
I would rather not do this. So, I ask, might there be someone that will be
attending the Mansfield launch would be willing to loan me said enclosure
for this flight?



Thanks in advance,



Cameron Tinder



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From rbraibish at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 18:37:17 2009
From: rbraibish at yahoo.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:37:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <bff.6778b39d.37e2935b@aol.com>
References: <bff.6778b39d.37e2935b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <482054.71553.qm@web43503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi Aaron, welcome.? I echo Mike's recommendation for Binder Design kits and would add that Mike is a great guy too.? I wanted a kit for my son?as a Christmas present and (true to?form) contacted?him on a short notice.? He took the time to pull a kit together for me?and be available at a time so that I could swing by to pick it up (I live near?his "home-base").? Thanks again,?Mike.? I earned my L1 last year on an Aspire, and just this past weekend had my 16th launch of the same rocket.? On one of those flights, I used too much of the ejection charge provided with the motor kit, had a hardware failure (of my own doing) and separated the chute from the rocket, 2100 ft free fall, and all I have to show for it is a crack in the paint along a fin joint (the joint is still sound).? As for modifications,??I did make some, but just for the challenge of it, the kit was great right out of the bag.? I did a?zipper-less design and am very happy with
 it,? This is done by making the separation between the booster section and the payload section much lower on the?overall length of the rocket?and have the chute deploy out of the "bottom" of the payload section.? This was relatively easy to do with the Aspire kit and, if you are curious I can send you pictures or more info, though there is plenty to be found out there...? it has the added benefit of making the booster section smaller and easier to work with during construction.
One other thing, I did switch to a "U" bolt, I used the smallest "cable clamp" type U bolt available, ground down the "washer" part of the cable clamp so it was more "washer-like", filed down the nuts and extra bolt ends?and actually came in at less weight then the eye-bolt -?and, have a stronger union at the bulkhead (the load is distributed over a larger area).? I did dab epoxy on the nuts... keep it clean guy's!! I can hear the chortles already!!... The rest of the rocket will whither to dust before?the?U-bolt and?bulkhead separate! ?I am sure it was more effort then what was really needed but who among us has not done something just because we wanted to try it...keeps those creative juices flowin'.

Again, welcome and good luck on your Cert effort.

Robert Braibish



________________________________
From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
To: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:15:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction

Aaron,

I'd suggest looking at some Binder Design kits.? They'll get you your? 
level 1 without modification, just build from the instructions.? Some of? the 
upgrades like rail buttons, tubular nylon harness, and premium parachute are? 
included, and no piston hassles.? Eye-bolts are fine for L1 and L2 and I? 
fly forged for L3 power.? You'll tear up a lot of other stuff before you? open 
up an eye-bolt.? I think a bigger concern with eye-bolts is? making sure to 
use lock-tite or epoxy on the threads.? I've seen more fail? that way 
because of unscrewing during descent.

Either way you decide to go, best of luck to you.

Mike Fisher
Binder Design
_http://binderdesign.com_ (http://binderdesign.com) 


In a message dated 9/16/2009 10:47:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,? 
aaron.l.evans at gmail.com writes:

I had to? opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting? 
for
Washington Aerospace.

I wanted to comment on how impressed I was? with everybody and how welcomed 
I
was to the meeting.

And I wanted? to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.



As? I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. But
a? lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.

I'll apologize in? advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
basic? questions.

And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps? these questions
have already come up many times before.

But I? appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to? offer.



With that in mind, here is my first request to the? group.



I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High? Power Rocket that I
can use for a level 1 certification. 

At this? point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
looking? for an easy to slap together kit.

I've picked up that, it seems, few? people would actually build a kit as-is.

So I'm looking for advice on? what to look for, what to avoid, and what 
needs
to be? modified.



I've picked up a few suggestions already about? tossing the launch lugs in
favor of using rail? guides, and using U? bolts instead of eye bolts.

I've been looking at some kits from Public? Missiles Ltd. They seem to 
really
like their Piston Deployment System. But? I've heard mixed reviews about it.



I realize I'm casting a? pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
hoping to use this to learn? more about the subjects and uncover the
questions I currently don't know to? ask.

As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I? have.



Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope? to get a chance 
to
meet more of you soon.



-? Aaron







_______________________________________________
Rockets? mailing? list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From aaron.l.evans at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 19:34:46 2009
From: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com (Aaron Evans)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:34:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Aluminum Rail buttons
In-Reply-To: <3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
	<3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop>
Message-ID: <4ab1a09b.151bf30a.1848.0145@mx.google.com>

I did not know that about using aluminum rail buttons.
I've seen that Giant Leap sells aluminum conformal rail guides 
http://giantleaprocketry.com/products_launchsys.asp#acmeguides
Would these also be banned?
would the urethane linear rail lugs that PML sells be a better choice
https://blastzone.com/pml/components.asp?groupid=17
or are the Delrin rail buttons really the best way to go?

That's a good idea and to build a level 1&2 rocket. I also think I'm content
if this rocket be a level 1 only.
Not that I haven't thought about going for a level 2, it'll give me the
opportunity to build another rocket for level 2.

Thanks for info.

-Aaron

-----Original Message-----
From: Bryon Schopp [mailto:bar0051 at homenetnw.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:20 PM
To: Aaron Evans; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction

Welcome back to rocketry.  I to am a B.A.R. and when I attended my first WAC

launch I drove them nuts with questions.  But if you don't ask, you won't 
learn.  Like Mark said, come to the launch this weekend and feel free to ask

all the questions you want.
I think everyone would agree that rail buttons are the way to go.  Make sure

not to use the metal ones as I believe that WAC has a rule against using 
them on club rails.
As for your first HP rocket, you will get a lot of different ideas.  You may

want to consider one that could be used for both level 1 & level 2.  You may

not be thinking about level 2 now but once you are fully addicted to AP you 
will get there :)

Bryon Schopp

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Evans" <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:39 AM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction


>I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting 
>for
> Washington Aerospace.
>
> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed

> I
> was to the meeting.
>
> And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
>
>
>
> As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. 
> But
> a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>
> I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> basic questions.
>
> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> have already come up many times before.
>
> But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>
>
>
> With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>
>
>
> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
> can use for a level 1 certification.
>
> At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>
> I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit 
> as-is.
>
> So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what 
> needs
> to be modified.
>
>
>
> I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
> favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>
> I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to 
> really
> like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about 
> it.
>
>
>
> I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> questions I currently don't know to ask.
>
> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance 
> to
> meet more of you soon.
>
>
>
> - Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 



From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Sep 16 19:58:13 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:58:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Aluminum Rail buttons
In-Reply-To: <4ab1a09b.151bf30a.1848.0145@mx.google.com>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com><3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop>
	<4ab1a09b.151bf30a.1848.0145@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9A13AD6600714ECF8686A6FC24FAF8C1@Mobile2>

Go with the delrin buttons, they are the best. The aluminum conformal guides
kill the rails too.
 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Aaron Evans
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:35 PM
To: 'Bryon Schopp'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Aluminum Rail buttons

I did not know that about using aluminum rail buttons.
I've seen that Giant Leap sells aluminum conformal rail guides
http://giantleaprocketry.com/products_launchsys.asp#acmeguides
Would these also be banned?
would the urethane linear rail lugs that PML sells be a better choice
https://blastzone.com/pml/components.asp?groupid=17
or are the Delrin rail buttons really the best way to go?

That's a good idea and to build a level 1&2 rocket. I also think I'm content
if this rocket be a level 1 only.
Not that I haven't thought about going for a level 2, it'll give me the
opportunity to build another rocket for level 2.

Thanks for info.

-Aaron

-----Original Message-----
From: Bryon Schopp [mailto:bar0051 at homenetnw.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:20 PM
To: Aaron Evans; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction

Welcome back to rocketry.  I to am a B.A.R. and when I attended my first WAC

launch I drove them nuts with questions.  But if you don't ask, you won't
learn.  Like Mark said, come to the launch this weekend and feel free to ask

all the questions you want.
I think everyone would agree that rail buttons are the way to go.  Make sure

not to use the metal ones as I believe that WAC has a rule against using
them on club rails.
As for your first HP rocket, you will get a lot of different ideas.  You may

want to consider one that could be used for both level 1 & level 2.  You may

not be thinking about level 2 now but once you are fully addicted to AP you
will get there :)

Bryon Schopp

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Evans" <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:39 AM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction


>I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting 
>for
> Washington Aerospace.
>
> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed

> I
> was to the meeting.
>
> And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
>
>
>
> As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. 
> But
> a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>
> I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> basic questions.
>
> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> have already come up many times before.
>
> But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>
>
>
> With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>
>
>
> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
> can use for a level 1 certification.
>
> At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>
> I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit 
> as-is.
>
> So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what 
> needs
> to be modified.
>
>
>
> I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
> favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>
> I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to 
> really
> like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about 
> it.
>
>
>
> I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> questions I currently don't know to ask.
>
> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance 
> to
> meet more of you soon.
>
>
>
> - Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 16 20:08:04 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:08:04 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Aluminum Rail buttons
In-Reply-To: <9A13AD6600714ECF8686A6FC24FAF8C1@Mobile2>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com><3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop>	<4ab1a09b.151bf30a.1848.0145@mx.google.com>
	<9A13AD6600714ECF8686A6FC24FAF8C1@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <4AB1A814.5070603@earthlink.net>

Like one poster said a couple of days ago...
If you are running a minimum-diameter bird buy the conformal rail guide, 
cut off the non-conformal parts, drill a hole in it and tap some 
threads, glue to the airframe, and mount your Delrin rail buttons to it.

Robert

Scott T Bowers wrote:
> Go with the delrin buttons, they are the best. The aluminum conformal guides
> kill the rails too.
>  
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Aaron Evans
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:35 PM
> To: 'Bryon Schopp'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Aluminum Rail buttons
>
> I did not know that about using aluminum rail buttons.
> I've seen that Giant Leap sells aluminum conformal rail guides
> http://giantleaprocketry.com/products_launchsys.asp#acmeguides
> Would these also be banned?
> would the urethane linear rail lugs that PML sells be a better choice
> https://blastzone.com/pml/components.asp?groupid=17
> or are the Delrin rail buttons really the best way to go?
>
> That's a good idea and to build a level 1&2 rocket. I also think I'm content
> if this rocket be a level 1 only.
> Not that I haven't thought about going for a level 2, it'll give me the
> opportunity to build another rocket for level 2.
>
> Thanks for info.
>
> -Aaron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryon Schopp [mailto:bar0051 at homenetnw.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: Aaron Evans; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>
> Welcome back to rocketry.  I to am a B.A.R. and when I attended my first WAC
>
> launch I drove them nuts with questions.  But if you don't ask, you won't
> learn.  Like Mark said, come to the launch this weekend and feel free to ask
>
> all the questions you want.
> I think everyone would agree that rail buttons are the way to go.  Make sure
>
> not to use the metal ones as I believe that WAC has a rule against using
> them on club rails.
> As for your first HP rocket, you will get a lot of different ideas.  You may
>
> want to consider one that could be used for both level 1 & level 2.  You may
>
> not be thinking about level 2 now but once you are fully addicted to AP you
> will get there :)
>
> Bryon Schopp
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aaron Evans" <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:39 AM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>
>
>   
>> I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting 
>> for
>> Washington Aerospace.
>>
>> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed
>>     
>
>   
>> I
>> was to the meeting.
>>
>> And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
>>
>>
>>
>> As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. 
>> But
>> a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>>
>> I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
>> basic questions.
>>
>> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
>> have already come up many times before.
>>
>> But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>>
>>
>>
>> With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
>> can use for a level 1 certification.
>>
>> At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
>> looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>>
>> I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit 
>> as-is.
>>
>> So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what 
>> needs
>> to be modified.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
>> favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>>
>> I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to 
>> really
>> like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about 
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
>> hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
>> questions I currently don't know to ask.
>>
>> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance 
>> to
>> meet more of you soon.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 20:27:38 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:27:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Sheridan Launch Results - Amazing 2009 Event
Message-ID: <D4668A59A2474E0094B4909DEE1BCC60@LaptopKrausert>

Members, 
What an amazing weekend at the OregonRocketry launch event September 12th and 13th. Below are the motor and flight stats. Sunday may have clusters comblined.  

Motor....Saturday....Sunday....Total

A..........30..........20.......50..
B..........35..........26.......61..
C..........62..........51......113..
D..........37..........13.......50..
E..........25...........5.......30..
F..........30..........10.......40..
G..........45..........10.......55..
H..........21...........6.......27..
I..........18...........0.......18..
J...........5...........0........5..
K...........2...........1........3..

Total.....310.........142......452..

Certainly a very busy weekend and plenty of rocket fuel to breath in. Hope everyone had a great time. 

Sorry for Courier font, but best way to line up the columns. If your browser changes the font, at least I tried to make it straight. 

Thank you all again for a great weekend. Many of people to thank. Thank you Ken McGoffin for the Sunday tally. No tally was made for Friday. 

Cheers, 
Robert
OROC President

From dennys at carnitech.net  Wed Sep 16 20:24:58 2009
From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:24:58 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS L3
References: <4AB15D32.60009@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5DC@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>

It was a very cool L3 cert, Andrew.  Congrats again.

Denny

________________________________

From: Andrew MacMillen [mailto:andrewm at hawkfeather.com]
Sent: Wed 9/16/2009 2:48 PM
To: NorthWest Rocketry
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS L3



Better late than never... Here's the info on my L3 cert flight at FITS.

http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/l3/flight_090523.html

Andrew.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From appusher at q.com  Wed Sep 16 20:42:24 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:42:24 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield Launch this weekend
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB2C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
	<3AD26F66BFC5474886A4F4CBDB756D7D@MEDIONDeskTop> 
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB2C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W22ECD1DC9DD55A4A06A032DCE10@phx.gbl>


peter,

have them come see dave and myself......we'll fix 'em up.

 

cookies!

 

bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:00:51 -0700
> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> To: bar0051 at homenetnw.net; aaron.l.evans at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield Launch this weekend
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> My students are coming out to the launch at Mansfield this
> weekend--unfortunately without me (prior commitments I couldn't wiggle
> out of). Their former Team President, now an Alumni, will be leading
> them for me, and their former Chief Designer (also now an alumnae, she
> herself is L2 certified) will be there to help keep themselves safe.
> 
> One young lady in particular has built a rocket she's planning to
> certify L1/L2 with. Should be exciting...except that it dawned on me
> today during lunch that I forgot to order her a set of rail buttons.
> Her LOC kit came with a really impressive looking 1/2" launch lug that
> is next to worthless out on the range--no matter how hard she tries I
> don't think it's going to fit into those rails... :-P
> 
> If someone would be so kind as to bring along an extra set of buttons
> for her, I'd be much obliged.
> 
> Oh...and I wouldn't be the least surprised if the students brought
> cookies again...they tend to do that!
> 
> Peter Schurke 
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor 
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy 
> Ingraham High School 
> 1819 N 135th St 
> Seattle, WA 98133 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From appusher at q.com  Wed Sep 16 20:48:40 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:48:40 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A37E1F@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <001101ca371d$28220d60$78662820$@net>
	<e068dfbd0909161531v34dfef63qc5b46c235b552e04@mail.gmail.com>
	<002401ca371e$6f5b9560$4e12c020$@net> 
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A37E1F@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W27073211539D03FF945D6FDCE10@phx.gbl>


Carl,

 

Come see me.  I'll buy you some cookies.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: robert.krausert at intel.com
> To: sealtee at cableone.net; carl at mousetrap.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:41:57 -0700
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
> 
> Maybe Carl should get a cookie. ;-)
> 
> Have a great launch. Wish I was there.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Cameron Tinder
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:39 PM
> To: 'Carl Hamilton'
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
> 
> Thanks Carl!
> 
> 
> 
> See you in Mansfield!
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron
> 
> 
> 
> From: Carl Hamilton [mailto:carl at mousetrap.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:32 PM
> To: Cameron Tinder
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron -
> 
> 
> 
> I have such a closure and it will be with me at the launch. You are more than welcome to borrow it.
> 
> 
> 
> - Carl
> 
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net> wrote:
> 
> I have just come to the startling conclusion that I need but do not have, an
> extended forward closure for my Aerotech 54mm 2560 case. I am planning my L2
> flight of my Modified Jayhawk this weekend at Mansfield using a K270. Though
> there is no mention of the need for an extended forward closure in the
> directions, I can clearly see that one is needed for the longer smoke grain.
> Looks like one could conceivably cut the smoke grain down to fit, or I
> suppose that grease could be put in place of the smoke grain altogether, but
> I would rather not do this. So, I ask, might there be someone that will be
> attending the Mansfield launch would be willing to loan me said enclosure
> for this flight?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron Tinder
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From appusher at q.com  Wed Sep 16 20:58:29 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:58:29 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W23924F5E0602F491C1491ADCE10@phx.gbl>


Aaron,

 

Go with a Binder Design.  Mike is local vendor that supports NW Rocketry.

Great quality kits at reasonable prices.  Customer service is among the highest you can find.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:39:18 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
> 
> I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting for
> Washington Aerospace.
> 
> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed I
> was to the meeting.
> 
> And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
> 
> 
> 
> As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. But
> a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
> 
> I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> basic questions.
> 
> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> have already come up many times before.
> 
> But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
> 
> 
> 
> With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
> can use for a level 1 certification. 
> 
> At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> looking for an easy to slap together kit.
> 
> I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit as-is.
> 
> So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what needs
> to be modified.
> 
> 
> 
> I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
> favor of using rail guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
> 
> I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to really
> like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> questions I currently don't know to ask.
> 
> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance to
> meet more of you soon.
> 
> 
> 
> - Aaron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 21:12:06 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:12:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
	<BLU107-W23924F5E0602F491C1491ADCE10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6A5F60D17D4C4121A5B87339307A67DF@LaptopKrausert>

And Mike has a 175 feet tall 38mm rocket.... oops. Sorry. Me bad.

Yes Aaron, Mike is a great kit supplier / vendor and overall great guy. His 
stuff is cool and works. Hey, he even puts up with me. And that's a lot to 
ask. ;-)

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Munds" <appusher at q.com>
To: <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction


>
> Aaron,
>
>
>
> Go with a Binder Design.  Mike is local vendor that supports NW Rocketry.
>
> Great quality kits at reasonable prices.  Customer service is among the 
> highest you can find.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
>
>
>
>> From: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:39:18 -0700
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>>
>> I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting 
>> for
>> Washington Aerospace.
>>
>> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how 
>> welcomed I
>> was to the meeting.
>>
>> And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
>>
>>
>>
>> As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years. 
>> But
>> a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>>
>> I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
>> basic questions.
>>
>> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
>> have already come up many times before.
>>
>> But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>>
>>
>>
>> With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
>> can use for a level 1 certification.
>>
>> At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
>> looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>>
>> I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit 
>> as-is.
>>
>> So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what 
>> needs
>> to be modified.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
>> favor of using rail guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>>
>> I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to 
>> really
>> like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about 
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
>> hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
>> questions I currently don't know to ask.
>>
>> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance 
>> to
>> meet more of you soon.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From jhadv at pacifier.com  Wed Sep 16 21:33:33 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:33:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] L2 Cert Project Under Way
In-Reply-To: <mailman.271.1253123232.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.271.1253123232.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <10975.76.115.45.22.1253162013.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com>

"I have decided to go Scratch for my L2 Cert."

I'll alert the media.


From dcarlsons at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 16 21:36:40 2009
From: dcarlsons at earthlink.net (Dan Carlson)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:36:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
Message-ID: <380-22009941743640328@earthlink.net>

Hi Aaron,

I recommend Binder Design Kits.  I have 4 Binder kits in my arsenal.  A
Spike, Dragonfly, Thug and Excel Plus.  Still working on the Excel.  The
other three I built on my dining room table with each of my three kids. 
After building two 2-1/2 inch diameter kits I built a 4 inch and it was
easier for my kids and for me to work on.  It was also the one I certified
for L1.  With the 4 inch kit I can actually get my paws down into the tube
and I found it was easier to epoxy the tight space around the motor mount.

A few things for you to consider:

Launch cost.  Ask around a bit about motors.  Figure out what's driving
your need to fly (ex:  bigger, more power, higher...or just like to fly...
or just like the modeling aspect... etc).  For me, I can't hardly bring
myself to spend $25 per launch so I stick with the less expensive 29mm
versions.  After you buy the hardware, the 29mm motors will run between $12
- $20.  Some folks are deeper in the pocket, have other alternatives, or
don't have kids still at home that need food.

I painted my first rocket light blue.   Dumb, dumb, dumb!  It also had a
gold sage colored parachute.  Lose it in the sky, then lose it in the
sage.... I've spent many hours searching for this crazy thing.  I've at
least since changed the chute to bright red.

The paint kits I now use are Duplicolor Mirage Kits.  The paint changes
color depending on the angle of the sunlight.  They are a 3-in-one kit, and
run around $25.  I let the kids pick out the colors.  Paint looks awesome
in the sunlight.  I get my paint from the local auto store.  Found this
link as well.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/DC-mirage.aspx

For rail guides I use the Delrin (sp?) rail buttons with nylon.  I think
most Binder kits come with these now.  I've never really liked the button
attached directly to the body tube, so I cut a couple popsicle sticks,
round the edges and epoxy them on.  Then I pre-drill the popscicle stick
and screw the button on.  This way the button stands-off from the body tube.

For motor retention I do like the Binder motor retainers.  There are a
number of less expensive home made options for you in this area.  Depends
on what you are after for looks, vs versatility, vs cost.

Lastly, and I think most importantly, is that Mike Fisher of Binder is an
excellent resource and his customer service has been excellent any time I
have had a question.  

Best to you!
-Dan

Oh, one other thing I learned the hard way.... If you screw up the epoxy
mixture and it turns to sticky goo, don't follow the advice of some online
postings that say to take the rocket and heat it up in the oven......  Does
not work!!  Cheers!
 



> [Original Message]
> From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Date: 9/16/2009 10:47:27 AM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>
> I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting
for
> Washington Aerospace.
>
> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how
welcomed I
> was to the meeting.
>
> And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
>
>  
>
> As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years.
But
> a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>
> I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> basic questions.
>
> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> have already come up many times before.
>
> But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>
>  
>
> With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>
>  
>
> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
> can use for a level 1 certification. 
>
> At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>
> I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
as-is.
>
> So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
needs
> to be modified.
>
>  
>
> I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
> favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>
> I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
really
> like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about
it.
>
>  
>
> I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> questions I currently don't know to ask.
>
> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>
>  
>
> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance
to
> meet more of you soon.
>
>  
>
> - Aaron
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 21:36:46 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:36:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Northwest Rocketry Web Site;
	Time to save your information
Message-ID: <6C4F8F90D8AD42D589025F990E0EFB97@LaptopKrausert>

I'll certainly keep sending reminders. But please do not wait until it's too late. 

The NWR site is coming up on a complete reset; meaning what's there today will be deleted. We are likely within a week or two of this action. If you see or know something on the site you wish to not lose, please download it soon. 

I will provide updates and timing. But don't wait. 

Cheers, 
Robert

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 22:33:17 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:33:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <482054.71553.qm@web43503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <bff.6778b39d.37e2935b@aol.com>
	<482054.71553.qm@web43503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909162233o60fcd81i3342dd566426a1f7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Aaron, and welcome to the wonderful world of High Powered Rocketry.  I
agree totally with the masses here when they tell you Binder Designs is they
way you want to go.  As anyone who may have been at Sheridan this last
Sunday should all be happy to know my we deffinently put the HPR bug into my
friend Charles(the guy with the funny large cluster rockets).  He had a
million questions after we got back.  He has even taken my advice and
purchased his first HPR, a BINDER DESIGNS 38mm Jack Hammer.  He wanted to be
able to use this not only to certify L1 and L2 but also be able to launch it
at almost any NAR/TRA event which would yes include Sheridan.  The biggest
reason behind the Jack Hammer is all that fin drag it has will keep it at
lower altitudes when using the lower H size reloads.  That way he can keep
within the flight waiver at Sheridan or anywhere else for that matter.  He
totally plans to have it ready for Brothers this October.  Binder kits are
the easiest HPR kits you will find anywhere.  Everything goes together like
clock work.

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Robert Braibish <rbraibish at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Hi Aaron, welcome.  I echo Mike's recommendation for Binder Design kits and
> would add that Mike is a great guy too.  I wanted a kit for my son as a
> Christmas present and (true to form) contacted him on a short notice.  He
> took the time to pull a kit together for me and be available at a time so
> that I could swing by to pick it up (I live near his "home-base").  Thanks
> again, Mike.  I earned my L1 last year on an Aspire, and just this past
> weekend had my 16th launch of the same rocket.  On one of those flights, I
> used too much of the ejection charge provided with the motor kit, had a
> hardware failure (of my own doing) and separated the chute from the rocket,
> 2100 ft free fall, and all I have to show for it is a crack in the paint
> along a fin joint (the joint is still sound).  As for modifications,  I did
> make some, but just for the challenge of it, the kit was great right out of
> the bag.  I did a zipper-less design and am very happy with
>  it,  This is done by making the separation between the booster section and
> the payload section much lower on the overall length of the rocket and have
> the chute deploy out of the "bottom" of the payload section.  This was
> relatively easy to do with the Aspire kit and, if you are curious I can send
> you pictures or more info, though there is plenty to be found out there...
> it has the added benefit of making the booster section smaller and easier to
> work with during construction.
> One other thing, I did switch to a "U" bolt, I used the smallest "cable
> clamp" type U bolt available, ground down the "washer" part of the cable
> clamp so it was more "washer-like", filed down the nuts and extra bolt
> ends and actually came in at less weight then the eye-bolt - and, have a
> stronger union at the bulkhead (the load is distributed over a larger
> area).  I did dab epoxy on the nuts... keep it clean guy's!! I can hear the
> chortles already!!... The rest of the rocket will whither to dust
> before the U-bolt and bulkhead separate!  I am sure it was more effort then
> what was really needed but who among us has not done something just because
> we wanted to try it...keeps those creative juices flowin'.
>
> Again, welcome and good luck on your Cert effort.
>
> Robert Braibish
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
> To: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:15:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>
> Aaron,
>
> I'd suggest looking at some Binder Design kits.  They'll get you your
> level 1 without modification, just build from the instructions.  Some of
> the
> upgrades like rail buttons, tubular nylon harness, and premium parachute
> are
> included, and no piston hassles.  Eye-bolts are fine for L1 and L2 and I
> fly forged for L3 power.  You'll tear up a lot of other stuff before you
> open
> up an eye-bolt.  I think a bigger concern with eye-bolts is  making sure to
> use lock-tite or epoxy on the threads.  I've seen more fail  that way
> because of unscrewing during descent.
>
> Either way you decide to go, best of luck to you.
>
> Mike Fisher
> Binder Design
> _http://binderdesign.com_ (http://binderdesign.com)
>
>
> In a message dated 9/16/2009 10:47:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> aaron.l.evans at gmail.com writes:
>
> I had to  opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting
> for
> Washington Aerospace.
>
> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was  with everybody and how welcomed
> I
> was to the meeting.
>
> And I wanted  to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
>
>
>
> As  I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years.
> But
> a  lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>
> I'll apologize in  advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> basic  questions.
>
> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps  these questions
> have already come up many times before.
>
> But I  appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to  offer.
>
>
>
> With that in mind, here is my first request to the  group.
>
>
>
> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High  Power Rocket that I
> can use for a level 1 certification.
>
> At this  point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> looking  for an easy to slap together kit.
>
> I've picked up that, it seems, few  people would actually build a kit
> as-is.
>
> So I'm looking for advice on  what to look for, what to avoid, and what
> needs
> to be  modified.
>
>
>
> I've picked up a few suggestions already about  tossing the launch lugs in
> favor of using rail  guides, and using U  bolts instead of eye bolts.
>
> I've been looking at some kits from Public  Missiles Ltd. They seem to
> really
> like their Piston Deployment System. But  I've heard mixed reviews about
> it.
>
>
>
> I realize I'm casting a  pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> hoping to use this to learn  more about the subjects and uncover the
> questions I currently don't know to  ask.
>
> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I  have.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope  to get a chance
> to
> meet more of you soon.
>
>
>
> -  Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets  mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Wed Sep 16 23:06:43 2009
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:06:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909162233o60fcd81i3342dd566426a1f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bff.6778b39d.37e2935b@aol.com>
	<482054.71553.qm@web43503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<e83b26700909162233o60fcd81i3342dd566426a1f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP6444F5A1C100F598E6DEFBF4E10@phx.gbl>

Aaron,
Welcome to the NW rocketry group. As a vendor, I can recommend many  
different kits, but we really stock PML, LOC and Binder Design. Mike  
offers a great kit, and they all work well right out of the package.  
I am currently finishing up a Samurai, and have flown my Thug so  
much, it needs to be "upgraded". Next kit I am looking at is either  
the Sentinel or Raptor,,,,,,,,,,

We stock and sell many Binder kits, and the Excel Jr is a easy L1  
kit, and the Excel Plus is very popular, since it can be used as a L1  
and L2 kit, and looks COOL!! I always try to keep them in stock. MIke  
offers a wide range of kits, so check out his web page at  
www.binderdesign.com, or stop by our booth at one of the NW rocketry  
launches.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask


Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager

Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707
Ph. 541-598-4406  Fax 541-593-5207

Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our  
natural world.



>
>
>> Hi Aaron, welcome.  I echo Mike's recommendation for Binder Design  
>> kits and
>> would add that Mike is a great guy too.  I wanted a kit for my son  
>> as a
>> Christmas present and (true to form) contacted him on a short  
>> notice.  He
>> took the time to pull a kit together for me and be available at a  
>> time so
>> that I could swing by to pick it up (I live near his "home- 
>> base").  Thanks
>> again, Mike.  I earned my L1 last year on an Aspire, and just this  
>> past
>> weekend had my 16th launch of the same rocket.  On one of those  
>> flights, I
>> used too much of the ejection charge provided with the motor kit,  
>> had a
>> hardware failure (of my own doing) and separated the chute from  
>> the rocket,
>> 2100 ft free fall, and all I have to show for it is a crack in the  
>> paint
>> along a fin joint (the joint is still sound).  As for  
>> modifications,  I did
>> make some, but just for the challenge of it, the kit was great  
>> right out of
>> the bag.  I did a zipper-less design and am very happy with
>>  it,  This is done by making the separation between the booster  
>> section and
>> the payload section much lower on the overall length of the rocket  
>> and have
>> the chute deploy out of the "bottom" of the payload section.  This  
>> was
>> relatively easy to do with the Aspire kit and, if you are curious  
>> I can send
>> you pictures or more info, though there is plenty to be found out  
>> there...
>> it has the added benefit of making the booster section smaller and  
>> easier to
>> work with during construction.
>> One other thing, I did switch to a "U" bolt, I used the smallest  
>> "cable
>> clamp" type U bolt available, ground down the "washer" part of the  
>> cable
>> clamp so it was more "washer-like", filed down the nuts and extra  
>> bolt
>> ends and actually came in at less weight then the eye-bolt - and,  
>> have a
>> stronger union at the bulkhead (the load is distributed over a larger
>> area).  I did dab epoxy on the nuts... keep it clean guy's!! I can  
>> hear the
>> chortles already!!... The rest of the rocket will whither to dust
>> before the U-bolt and bulkhead separate!  I am sure it was more  
>> effort then
>> what was really needed but who among us has not done something  
>> just because
>> we wanted to try it...keeps those creative juices flowin'.
>>
>> Again, welcome and good luck on your Cert effort.
>>
>> Robert Braibish
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
>> To: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:15:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>>
>> Aaron,
>>
>> I'd suggest looking at some Binder Design kits.  They'll get you your
>> level 1 without modification, just build from the instructions.   
>> Some of
>> the
>> upgrades like rail buttons, tubular nylon harness, and premium  
>> parachute
>> are
>> included, and no piston hassles.  Eye-bolts are fine for L1 and L2  
>> and I
>> fly forged for L3 power.  You'll tear up a lot of other stuff  
>> before you
>> open
>> up an eye-bolt.  I think a bigger concern with eye-bolts is   
>> making sure to
>> use lock-tite or epoxy on the threads.  I've seen more fail  that way
>> because of unscrewing during descent.
>>
>> Either way you decide to go, best of luck to you.
>>
>> Mike Fisher
>> Binder Design
>> _http://binderdesign.com_ (http://binderdesign.com)
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 9/16/2009 10:47:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> aaron.l.evans at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> I had to  opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club  
>> meeting
>> for
>> Washington Aerospace.
>>
>> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was  with everybody and how  
>> welcomed
>> I
>> was to the meeting.
>>
>> And I wanted  to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW  
>> community.
>>
>>
>>
>> As  I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25  
>> years.
>> But
>> a  lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>>
>> I'll apologize in  advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking  
>> some pretty
>> basic  questions.
>>
>> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps  these  
>> questions
>> have already come up many times before.
>>
>> But I  appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to  offer.
>>
>>
>>
>> With that in mind, here is my first request to the  group.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High  Power  
>> Rocket that I
>> can use for a level 1 certification.
>>
>> At this  point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm  
>> not just
>> looking  for an easy to slap together kit.
>>
>> I've picked up that, it seems, few  people would actually build a kit
>> as-is.
>>
>> So I'm looking for advice on  what to look for, what to avoid, and  
>> what
>> needs
>> to be  modified.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've picked up a few suggestions already about  tossing the launch  
>> lugs in
>> favor of using rail  guides, and using U  bolts instead of eye bolts.
>>
>> I've been looking at some kits from Public  Missiles Ltd. They  
>> seem to
>> really
>> like their Piston Deployment System. But  I've heard mixed reviews  
>> about
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I realize I'm casting a  pretty wide net in terms of subject  
>> matter. I'm
>> hoping to use this to learn  more about the subjects and uncover the
>> questions I currently don't know to  ask.
>>
>> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I  have.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope  to get  
>> a chance
>> to
>> meet more of you soon.
>>
>>
>>
>> -  Aaron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets  mailing  list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 01:40:22 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:40:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up coming
	Brothers Oct. 2009
Message-ID: <e83b26700909170140yfbd3088yf7ee8d72f8d322c9@mail.gmail.com>

I have my 4 set of fins mapped out on the G10, two 36" x 4" tubes, one 7" x
3.9" coupler, tail cone w/54mm motor mount, a 54mm/38mm motor mount adapter
built, Bulkhead ready to cut out, centering ring for tail cone to motor
mount ready to cut out, and three 3.9" to 2.14" centering rings.  Check the
pic at
http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/L2%20Project%20The%20Seeker%201.JPG

From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 02:04:37 2009
From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 02:04:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up coming
	Brothers Oct. 2009
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909170140yfbd3088yf7ee8d72f8d322c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909170140yfbd3088yf7ee8d72f8d322c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <456676.6796.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Looks like a fun project Christopher.? Just how long is your motor mount tubing?? It looks like maybe 5 or 6 inches in the pic.

Larry




________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:40:22 AM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up coming Brothers Oct. 2009

I have my 4 set of fins mapped out on the G10, two 36" x 4" tubes, one 7" x
3.9" coupler, tail cone w/54mm motor mount, a 54mm/38mm motor mount adapter
built, Bulkhead ready to cut out, centering ring for tail cone to motor
mount ready to cut out, and three 3.9" to 2.14" centering rings.? Check the
pic at
http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/L2%20Project%20The%20Seeker%201.JPG
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 02:27:18 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 02:27:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up coming
	Brothers Oct. 2009
In-Reply-To: <456676.6796.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <e83b26700909170140yfbd3088yf7ee8d72f8d322c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<456676.6796.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909170227x443467e1o490ea1ee4bd7fd77@mail.gmail.com>

Well the motor mount tubing is 6 inches.  I plan on adding three more
centering rings spaced equally ahead of the motor mount.  Since I am making
them myself I can make them exact so as to forgo the tubing.  I will take a
long motor case and tape the rings where I will want them then insert into
tube to the proper depth and epoxy them in place.  Think that will do the
trick or do you know where I can get a much longer 54mm motor mount tube.  I
have been looking and had no luck.  I am building this rocket on a shoe
string budget.  I only had to pay for the tail cone and motor mount
adapter.  For as of now a grand total of $6.

Chris



On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Larry Colvin <larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Looks like a fun project Christopher.  Just how long is your motor mount
> tubing?  It looks like maybe 5 or 6 inches in the pic.
>
> Larry
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> *To:* rockets at rocketsnw.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:40:22 AM
> *Subject:* [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up coming
> Brothers Oct. 2009
>
> I have my 4 set of fins mapped out on the G10, two 36" x 4" tubes, one 7" x
> 3.9" coupler, tail cone w/54mm motor mount, a 54mm/38mm motor mount adapter
> built, Bulkhead ready to cut out, centering ring for tail cone to motor
> mount ready to cut out, and three 3.9" to 2.14" centering rings.  Check the
> pic at
>
> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/L2%20Project%20The%20Seeker%201.JPG
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 04:00:38 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 04:00:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up coming
	Brothers Oct. 2009
In-Reply-To: <553284.69534.qm@web50205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <e83b26700909170140yfbd3088yf7ee8d72f8d322c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<456676.6796.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e83b26700909170227x443467e1o490ea1ee4bd7fd77@mail.gmail.com>
	<553284.69534.qm@web50205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909170400vc8dde2bh410efa51fa66725@mail.gmail.com>

Yes I know I can get those longer tubes and am still looking for one at a
cheap if not free price.  If I have to I will get on from Binder since Mike
is in Salem and I am in Beaverton it is only a 45 minute drive.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Larry Colvin <larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> That will probably work.  The tubing is available in longer lengths, but it
> isn't free.  You can get components like that online from Binder Design,
> PML, LOC/Precision, Giant Leap Rocketry, even Rocketman I think.  But add in
> shipping too, and you are doing a better job on your own if you want to keep
> it under budget.  That is a new technique, but it sounds like it will work.
>
> Larry Covin
> Bend, OR (BORG)
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> *To:* Larry Colvin <larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* rockets at rocketsnw.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:27:18 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up
> coming Brothers Oct. 2009
>
> Well the motor mount tubing is 6 inches.  I plan on adding three more
> centering rings spaced equally ahead of the motor mount.  Since I am making
> them myself I can make them exact so as to forgo the tubing.  I will take a
> long motor case and tape the rings where I will want them then insert into
> tube to the proper depth and epoxy them in place.  Think that will do the
> trick or do you know where I can get a much longer 54mm motor mount tube.  I
> have been looking and had no luck.  I am building this rocket on a shoe
> string budget.  I only had to pay for the tail cone and motor mount
> adapter.  For as of now a grand total of $6.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Larry Colvin <larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>  Looks like a fun project Christopher.  Just how long is your motor mount
>> tubing?  It looks like maybe 5 or 6 inches in the pic.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> *To:* rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:40:22 AM
>> *Subject:* [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up coming
>> Brothers Oct. 2009
>>
>> I have my 4 set of fins mapped out on the G10, two 36" x 4" tubes, one 7"
>> x
>> 3.9" coupler, tail cone w/54mm motor mount, a 54mm/38mm motor mount
>> adapter
>> built, Bulkhead ready to cut out, centering ring for tail cone to motor
>> mount ready to cut out, and three 3.9" to 2.14" centering rings.  Check
>> the
>> pic at
>>
>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/L2%20Project%20The%20Seeker%201.JPG
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 04:02:42 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 04:02:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up coming
	Brothers Oct. 2009
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909170400vc8dde2bh410efa51fa66725@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909170140yfbd3088yf7ee8d72f8d322c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<456676.6796.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e83b26700909170227x443467e1o490ea1ee4bd7fd77@mail.gmail.com>
	<553284.69534.qm@web50205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e83b26700909170400vc8dde2bh410efa51fa66725@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909170402n6d0c4cedy318587d1d4022118@mail.gmail.com>

What I mean to say is that part of the project is to see how cheap I can put
her together for.  I find it an interesting and challenging twist.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 4:00 AM, Christopher Guenther <
guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes I know I can get those longer tubes and am still looking for one at a
> cheap if not free price.  If I have to I will get on from Binder since Mike
> is in Salem and I am in Beaverton it is only a 45 minute drive.
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Larry Colvin <larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> That will probably work.  The tubing is available in longer lengths, but
>> it isn't free.  You can get components like that online from Binder Design,
>> PML, LOC/Precision, Giant Leap Rocketry, even Rocketman I think.  But add in
>> shipping too, and you are doing a better job on your own if you want to keep
>> it under budget.  That is a new technique, but it sounds like it will work.
>>
>> Larry Covin
>> Bend, OR (BORG)
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Larry Colvin <larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>
>> *Cc:* rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:27:18 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up
>> coming Brothers Oct. 2009
>>
>> Well the motor mount tubing is 6 inches.  I plan on adding three more
>> centering rings spaced equally ahead of the motor mount.  Since I am making
>> them myself I can make them exact so as to forgo the tubing.  I will take a
>> long motor case and tape the rings where I will want them then insert into
>> tube to the proper depth and epoxy them in place.  Think that will do the
>> trick or do you know where I can get a much longer 54mm motor mount tube.  I
>> have been looking and had no luck.  I am building this rocket on a shoe
>> string budget.  I only had to pay for the tail cone and motor mount
>> adapter.  For as of now a grand total of $6.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Larry Colvin <larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Looks like a fun project Christopher.  Just how long is your motor
>>> mount tubing?  It looks like maybe 5 or 6 inches in the pic.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:40:22 AM
>>> *Subject:* [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up
>>> coming Brothers Oct. 2009
>>>
>>> I have my 4 set of fins mapped out on the G10, two 36" x 4" tubes, one 7"
>>> x
>>> 3.9" coupler, tail cone w/54mm motor mount, a 54mm/38mm motor mount
>>> adapter
>>> built, Bulkhead ready to cut out, centering ring for tail cone to motor
>>> mount ready to cut out, and three 3.9" to 2.14" centering rings.  Check
>>> the
>>> pic at
>>>
>>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/L2%20Project%20The%20Seeker%201.JPG
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 17 06:15:15 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:15:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
In-Reply-To: <001101ca371d$28220d60$78662820$@net>
References: <001101ca371d$28220d60$78662820$@net>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W5394BAFF7B338899ACACAA6E10@phx.gbl>


I've got one.

 

Mark
 
> From: sealtee at cableone.net
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:29:29 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm Extented forward enclosure
> 
> I have just come to the startling conclusion that I need but do not have, an
> extended forward closure for my Aerotech 54mm 2560 case. I am planning my L2
> flight of my Modified Jayhawk this weekend at Mansfield using a K270. Though
> there is no mention of the need for an extended forward closure in the
> directions, I can clearly see that one is needed for the longer smoke grain.
> Looks like one could conceivably cut the smoke grain down to fit, or I
> suppose that grease could be put in place of the smoke grain altogether, but
> I would rather not do this. So, I ask, might there be someone that will be
> attending the Mansfield launch would be willing to loan me said enclosure
> for this flight? 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron Tinder
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 08:50:11 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:50:11 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone have a 4" diameter nose cone they could part
	with?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909170850n6773202cq615e9e69f3425ae3@mail.gmail.com>

I am building a scratch rocket and will need a 4" diameter nose cone.  I can
not seem to be able to find one.  If you have one you can part with I would
be great-full.

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 09:04:37 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:04:37 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
Message-ID: <c95.4c3e795d.37e3b815@aol.com>

Awesome!  The Jackhammer really cooks on the J350 for L2.  Dustin  got his 
L2 on that combo with a little nose-weight.  If you do that just be  sure to 
make sure you have a tight fit on the cones or it will drag separate as  
Dustin found out on his second flight. :(
 
Thanks for all the kind words everybody!
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/16/2009 10:34:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes:

He has  even taken my advice and
purchased his first HPR, a BINDER DESIGNS 38mm  Jack Hammer.  He wanted to 
be
able to use this not only to certify L1  and L2 but also be able to launch 
it
at almost any NAR/TRA event which  would yes include Sheridan. 


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 09:14:50 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:14:50 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
Message-ID: <d28.52351ab4.37e3ba7a@aol.com>

Sunriver is our premier launch dealer in Oregon, Tammies Hobbies in  
Beaverton is our PDX dealer, and Leisure Hobbies in Salem carries a limited  
supply of smaller kits.
 
I do not vend at launches anymore since Sunriver is an excellent  
representative for our products.  I will do special orders for pick up in  Salem by 
appointment only.
 
If you local dealer has it, buy it there. :)
 
Mike Fisher
Binder Design
 
 
In a message dated 9/16/2009 11:07:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org writes:

We stock  and sell many Binder kits, and the Excel Jr is a easy L1  
kit, and  the Excel Plus is very popular, since it can be used as a L1  
and L2  kit, and looks COOL!! I always try to keep them in stock. MIke   
offers a wide range of kits, so check out his web page at   
www.binderdesign.com, or stop by our booth at one of the NW rocketry   
launches.



From brodwcjj at integrity.com  Thu Sep 17 09:50:19 2009
From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:50:19 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <mailman.291.1253204112.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.291.1253204112.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <480fe005fd7cae6cb6a1f70ccb3e3c89.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>

Yes!   that Jackhammer will be great for L1 and or L2
I picked it for my L2  as it would stay under mach (no fancy glassing,
just build to instructions) and under a mile alt.  (visual flight for ease
in successful recovery)   Also I wanted to KISS with motor ejection.
Got my L2 first flight.

And I second the tight nosecone fit.  :-(    My second J350 flight ...
whole body zipper.

Dustin
NAR/TRA-L2


Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:04:37 EDT
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com

To: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
, rbraibish at yahoo.com

Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com

Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction
Message-ID: <c95.4c3e795d.37e3b815 at aol.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Awesome!  The Jackhammer really cooks on the J350 for L2.  Dustin  got his
L2 on that combo with a little nose-weight.  If you do that just be  sure to
make sure you have a tight fit on the cones or it will drag separate as
Dustin found out on his second flight. :(

Thanks for all the kind words everybody!

Mike F.




From winningstad at comcast.net  Thu Sep 17 10:11:58 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:11:58 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <BLU107-W23924F5E0602F491C1491ADCE10@phx.gbl>
References: <4ab12319.28015a0a.0b1b.ffffb63c@mx.google.com>
	<BLU107-W23924F5E0602F491C1491ADCE10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0a2201ca37b9$f74e6d30$e5eb4790$@net>

Aaron,

Go with Binder Design.  

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:58 PM
To: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction


Aaron,

 

Go with a Binder Design.  Mike is local vendor that supports NW Rocketry.

Great quality kits at reasonable prices.  Customer service is among the
highest you can find.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:39:18 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
> 
> I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting
for
> Washington Aerospace.
> 
> I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how welcomed
I
> was to the meeting.
> 
> And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
> 
> 
> 
> As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years.
But
> a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
> 
> I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> basic questions.
> 
> And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> have already come up many times before.
> 
> But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
> 
> 
> 
> With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
> can use for a level 1 certification. 
> 
> At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> looking for an easy to slap together kit.
> 
> I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
as-is.
> 
> So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
needs
> to be modified.
> 
> 
> 
> I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
> favor of using rail guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
> 
> I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
really
> like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about
it.
> 
> 
> 
> I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> questions I currently don't know to ask.
> 
> As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance
to
> meet more of you soon.
> 
> 
> 
> - Aaron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Thu Sep 17 11:42:40 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:42:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone have a 4" diameter nose cone they could
	part	with?
Message-ID: <6092884.1253212961339.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Check w/ Wildman Rocketry - they carry Performance Rocketry fiberglass nosecones.

Also try Giant Leap Rocketry and/or PML if you want plastic.

Then there's Hawk Mountain - I think Alan still sources nosecones thru ScottGlass.

/Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 17, 2009 11:50 AM
>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone have a 4" diameter nose cone they could part	with?
>
>I am building a scratch rocket and will need a 4" diameter nose cone.  I can
>not seem to be able to find one.  If you have one you can part with I would
>be great-full.
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From sealtee at cableone.net  Thu Sep 17 11:43:56 2009
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:43:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a L2 project status pic For the up coming
	Brothers Oct. 2009
Message-ID: <000601ca37c6$d05e8c70$711ba550$@net>

 

Hey Chris,

 

By chance will you be at Mansfield this weekend? I have a section of 54 mm
mmt tubing a little more than 8 ?? long that you can have. I have had good
luck on two occasions splicing the mmt tubing since it is entirely a push
force.  What I did, while not ideal, was I spliced the tubing inside a
centering ring and made a wooden mandrel covered in polyethylene to be
certain things are straight and I JB welded them together while inside the
airframe tubing. This has worked great for me and I would not give it a
second thought if the necessity were to arise again.

 

The only reason I suggest this is that I see that you are using a 54mm mmt.
While your plan might work just fine, it might not and here?s why. By using
only two centering rings, actually thrust rings, the entire amount of thrust
is transferred in only two areas, to the body only on the upper ring and to
the body and the fins on the lower ring. This may be entirely adequate
especially if you stay with the lower average thrust motors. But what if you
get a ?sweet deal? on a J540 Redline or a K550? Would you fly it without
fear of your mmt coming undone? With respect, I think that it would make me
very nervous! Personally,  I think that 2 feet of mmt tubing with 4 thrust
rings is a good minimum for a 54mm mmt, especially in a 4 inch rocket that
looks like it will be 7 or so feet long and will likely weigh in excess of
10 pounds on the pad.

 

The reason that I said I would be nervous is that I built a very light
weight 5 inch diameter carbon fiber rocket with a 6 inch long 38mm mmt. My
primary objective was weight reduction. I achieved that with the empty 5?
diameter 8 foot tall rocket weighing in a 3-3/4 lbs, 5 lbs on the pad with a
I161 in it! Now after 10 successful flights with H148s and I161s I am
?thinking? of stuffing an I211 in it. I am not sure that I can do this as I
never designed it to handle that much peak thrust. Will it work? Probably.
But notice that the word ?probably? also means ?maybe not?! I will likely
continue to ?think? about it as I don?t think that I will actually do it, or
maybe I will after a double latte or something.

 

If you will not be at Mansfield (a very long way for you) send me your
address off list and I will pop it in the mail to you on my nickel, you can
do the same sometime for someone else.

 

Best of luck to you!

 

Cameron

 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 12:03:01 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:03:01 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909171203x6d1a914aofdf65fa8362d46ce@mail.gmail.com>

I have a solid conical urethane tail cone.  It has a 3.125" throat.  I want
to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm.  This will have
ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone.  Will this cause any
issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?

See picture for reference at:
http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG

From carl at mousetrap.com  Thu Sep 17 12:19:26 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:19:26 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909171203x6d1a914aofdf65fa8362d46ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909171203x6d1a914aofdf65fa8362d46ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909171219h1538851alff33db82819e583e@mail.gmail.com>

Chris -
Is that a PML tail cone? Those are designed to be the aft-most "centering
ring" of a motor mount assembly, with the motor mount tube extending through
the entire tail cone. It looks like in this case, your tail cone is designed
for a 3" motor mount in a 4" airframe.

I doubt there will be any problem with the tail cone igniting, but I would
recommend extending your motor mount to the aft end of the cone, with a 3"
to 1.5" centering ring holding the motor tube near the end. You'll probably
have to cut a custom centering ring, as most CRs are cut for the ID of
common tubing, but the hole through the tail cone matches the OD of a 3"
tube.

 - Carl

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Christopher Guenther <
guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a solid conical urethane tail cone.  It has a 3.125" throat.  I want
> to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm.  This will have
> ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone.  Will this cause any
> issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>
> See picture for reference at:
>
> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 12:31:02 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:31:02 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0909171219h1538851alff33db82819e583e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909171203x6d1a914aofdf65fa8362d46ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<e068dfbd0909171219h1538851alff33db82819e583e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909171231k3c0180a9k5991c0e0679b55c9@mail.gmail.com>

If this is going to be a burn/melt issue I will just not use the tail cone
on this project.  I do not at this time wish to make the project any more
complicated then it already is.  I like the K.I.S.S. method.  So if anyone
knows this will be an issue let me know before I start spreading epoxy.



On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Carl Hamilton <carl at mousetrap.com> wrote:

> Chris -
> Is that a PML tail cone? Those are designed to be the aft-most "centering
> ring" of a motor mount assembly, with the motor mount tube extending through
> the entire tail cone. It looks like in this case, your tail cone is designed
> for a 3" motor mount in a 4" airframe.
>
> I doubt there will be any problem with the tail cone igniting, but I would
> recommend extending your motor mount to the aft end of the cone, with a 3"
> to 1.5" centering ring holding the motor tube near the end. You'll probably
> have to cut a custom centering ring, as most CRs are cut for the ID of
> common tubing, but the hole through the tail cone matches the OD of a 3"
> tube.
>
>  - Carl
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Christopher Guenther <
> guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a solid conical urethane tail cone.  It has a 3.125" throat.  I
>> want
>> to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm.  This will have
>> ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone.  Will this cause
>> any
>> issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>>
>> See picture for reference at:
>>
>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>

From tnetcenter at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 12:40:28 2009
From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:40:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
References: <e83b26700909171203x6d1a914aofdf65fa8362d46ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <018011E5F4CA4D5198390A2C84FBF0D0@TNTCENTER>

Yes!  It will cause problems.  You typically want the nozzle to be at the 
very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone.  Unless you 
use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's motor 
retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end of 
the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch.  How are you planning to 
retain your motor?  The commerical motor retention devices have their own 
requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the bottom 
of the rocket.  This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction starts - 
you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!

You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - the 
motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to the 
rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up against a 
bulkhead for that.  The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube 
assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket.  That guarantees you 
don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people 
attending the launch.

Jeff Moore
BORG

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>


I have a solid conical urethane tail cone.  It has a 3.125" throat.  I want
to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm.  This will have
ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone.  Will this cause any
issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?

See picture for reference at:
http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 12:58:44 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:58:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <018011E5F4CA4D5198390A2C84FBF0D0@TNTCENTER>
References: <e83b26700909171203x6d1a914aofdf65fa8362d46ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<018011E5F4CA4D5198390A2C84FBF0D0@TNTCENTER>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909171258k4b7daceetf5940c60c5327950@mail.gmail.com>

I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt through a
doubled up centering ring for each hook.  I will also have a  metal ring big
enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and slides
down the bolts.  This way the aft closure is butted against the metal ring
and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a lock
washer and a nut.  This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using an
extension.  Will this still be an Issue?



On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes!  It will cause problems.  You typically want the nozzle to be at the
> very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone.  Unless you
> use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's motor
> retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end of
> the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch.  How are you planning to
> retain your motor?  The commerical motor retention devices have their own
> requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
> bottom
> of the rocket.  This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction starts -
> you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
>
> You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - the
> motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to the
> rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up against a
> bulkhead for that.  The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube
> assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket.  That guarantees you
> don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
> attending the launch.
>
> Jeff Moore
> BORG
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>
>
> I have a solid conical urethane tail cone.  It has a 3.125" throat.  I want
> to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm.  This will have
> ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone.  Will this cause any
> issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>
> See picture for reference at:
>
> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 17 14:02:18 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (raystoner99 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:02:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Christopher, 

What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days ago. I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another email, I think you mentioned something about L3. 

Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that you have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along the way. 

I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2. Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level 3. The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3, but there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you when the time for L2 comes around. 

I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2 prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some experience, then grab that level 2. 

Ray 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> 
To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com> 
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn? 

I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt through a 
doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring big 
enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and slides 
down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal ring 
and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a lock 
washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using an 
extension. Will this still be an Issue? 



On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> wrote: 

> Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at the 
> very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless you 
> use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's motor 
> retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end of 
> the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you planning to 
> retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their own 
> requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the 
> bottom 
> of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction starts - 
> you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact! 
> 
> You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - the 
> motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to the 
> rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up against a 
> bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube 
> assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees you 
> don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people 
> attending the launch. 
> 
> Jeff Moore 
> BORG 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> 
> 
> 
> I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I want 
> to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will have 
> ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this cause any 
> issues with burning or melting of the tail cone? 
> 
> See picture for reference at: 
> 
> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 


From carl at mousetrap.com  Thu Sep 17 14:34:35 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:34:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace September launch
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909171434j71078189rdaa3e16bf7ef8cfa@mail.gmail.com>

A NOTAM has been issued, the appropriate authorities have been notified, and
the weather forecast is looking reasonable. That means it's time to fly some
rockets in Mansfield!
The Washington Aerospace September launch will be held this weekend, the
19th and 20th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield, WA. We will
be launching from an area near the intersection of O Road NE and 13 Road NE,
about a mile south of SR-172 (
http://maps.google.com/?q=47.80053,-119.427738+(Snell+Ranch)&z=15). I plan
to be on-site by early Friday afternoon, so drive to the intersection and
then look for a green minivan.

This launch is open to all flyers, but proof of certification will be
required for all high-power flights. Washington Aerospace members fly for
free. Non-members will need to pay a $10/family range fee for the weekend.
Everybody, including spectators, must have a signed liability waiver on file
for this calendar year. If you need a waiver, please use our online form at
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php. Alternatively, I will
have blank waivers available at the launch.

The range will be composed of 3 high power pads with rails, 2 mid power pads
with rails, 1 mid power pad with a 1/4" rod, and 4 low power pads with 1/8"
and 3/16" rods. Puget Sound Propulsion will be providing hybrid GSE, so if
you want to pass some gas, talk to them and you should be covered. Robert
Simpson-Clark will have his away cell controller on hand, so if you want to
fly something larger than a K, he'll be able to provide the minimum
personnel distance required. If you need anything else, you will need to
bring it yourself.

We will not have the club's PA system or FM transmitter, so launch
announcements will be done over FRS. If you have FRS radios, please bring
them.

The fire danger in Douglas County is currently listed as moderate (it was
high this morning). This has prompted me to ban sparky motors at this
launch. If you have any sparky motors, please either leave them at home or
come to the launch with your very own, fully loaded fire truck.

Also due to the fire danger, we'll be taking some extra precautions to avoid
any big problems. Please bring a rake and/or shovel if you have them. These
are great tools to clear potential fuel around the pads and to fight any
fires that may crop up. I will have several water-based fire extinguishers
with me, but the rakes and shovels will be a welcome addition to our set of
fire control tools.

Despite the fire danger, the Douglas County fire marshal has confirmed that
campfires in approved fire pits *are* allowed. Feel free to bring and use
them, but please be cautious. Rather than bringing your own, however, you
could just bring a chair and join us around the fire that will inevitably be
burning at the Puget Sound Propulsion camp.

I will be looking for LCO and RSO volunteers. If you are a relatively new
flyer, please consider doing a shift as LCO or as RSO with another, more
experienced flyer. Both positions are a lot of fun and this will be a great
launch to get your feet wet.

I will have NAR membership and certification forms with me as well as NAR
level 2 tests. I will also be available to witness certification flights. If
you haven't already done so, please let me know if you're planning a
certification attempt this weekend so that I know what to expect. I am
currently aware of certification flights for Andy Barwick, Robert Geer,
Cameron Tinder, William Carpenter, and at least one student from Ingraham
High School.

Hopefully you noticed that most of our high and mid power pads will be
sporting rails exclusively. If you still have rockets without rail guides,
you may be waiting for the single pad with a rod. Installing rail buttons is
straight forward and could easily be done at the launch. Keep in mind,
however, that the club prohibits the use of metal rail guides on our rails
due to the wear it puts on them. Please use the Delrin buttons from Binder
Design or http://www.railbuttons.com/ or something similar to the urethane
rail lugs available from Public Missiles. If you need them, I believe Puget
Sound Propulsion will have them available on-site.

The Sunflower Cafe, in downtown Mansfield, has offered to take orders over
the phone and have your food ready to pickup at any time. Please consider
taking them up on this offer and supporting the town that has supported us.
The Cafe's number is 509-683-1068. They may think that we are flying from
the Sportsmen's Club, so if they offer to deliver your food, please make
sure they understand what they are committing to and consider offering to
pick it up yourself.

If you need anything or have any questions you can call my cell phone at
425-785-3751. My cell coverage at the site is horrible, however, so I may
not answer starting around noon on Friday. If you can't reach me, you can
call Mark Lyons (who has reasonable coverage at the site) at 509-679-2707.

Hope to see you there!

 - Carl

From aaron.l.evans at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 14:41:48 2009
From: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com (Aaron Evans)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:41:48 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Anti-Zipper Airframe design
Message-ID: <3bc592c70909171441k520f9758yb291e3a7ea6f0dc3@mail.gmail.com>

I appreciate all of your suggestions, which have reinforced comments made by
others.
Robert Braibish and Carl Hamilton has both mentioned using an Anti-Zipper
Fin Can design.

As long as I'm understanding things correctly, the recommendation is to
modify the rocket like those shown here:
http://www.info-central.org/?article=132
I think I want to use this design recommendation, but I have some questions
if anyone can fill me in.
Does the addition of the coupler, bulkhead and shock cord attachment
hardware change the CG and CP relationship?
Does this have any significant impact in flight?
Would the length of the airframe (or something else) need to be changed?
how much space would be needed between the front of the motor mount and the
bulkhead?
Much Appreciated

-Aaron



On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Robert Braibish <rbraibish at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Hi Aaron, welcome.  I echo Mike's recommendation for Binder Design kits and
> would add that Mike is a great guy too.  I wanted a kit for my son as a
> Christmas present and (true to form) contacted him on a short notice.  He
> took the time to pull a kit together for me and be available at a time so
> that I could swing by to pick it up (I live near his "home-base").  Thanks
> again, Mike.  I earned my L1 last year on an Aspire, and just this past
> weekend had my 16th launch of the same rocket.  On one of those flights, I
> used too much of the ejection charge provided with the motor kit, had a
> hardware failure (of my own doing) and separated the chute from the rocket,
> 2100 ft free fall, and all I have to show for it is a crack in the paint
> along a fin joint (the joint is still sound).  As for modifications,  I did
> make some, but just for the challenge of it, the kit was great right out of
> the bag.  I did a zipper-less design and am very happy with
>  it,  This is done by making the separation between the booster section and
> the payload section much lower on the overall length of the rocket and have
> the chute deploy out of the "bottom" of the payload section.  This was
> relatively easy to do with the Aspire kit and, if you are curious I can send
> you pictures or more info, though there is plenty to be found out there...
> it has the added benefit of making the booster section smaller and easier to
> work with during construction.
> One other thing, I did switch to a "U" bolt, I used the smallest "cable
> clamp" type U bolt available, ground down the "washer" part of the cable
> clamp so it was more "washer-like", filed down the nuts and extra bolt
> ends and actually came in at less weight then the eye-bolt - and, have a
> stronger union at the bulkhead (the load is distributed over a larger
> area).  I did dab epoxy on the nuts... keep it clean guy's!! I can hear the
> chortles already!!... The rest of the rocket will whither to dust
> before the U-bolt and bulkhead separate!  I am sure it was more effort then
> what was really needed but who among us has not done something just because
> we wanted to try it...keeps those creative juices flowin'.
>
> Again, welcome and good luck on your Cert effort.
>
> Robert Braibish
>

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 15:01:38 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:01:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909171501y36eac71m5f13ebd68e43fa65@mail.gmail.com>

The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is mainly
because my true interest is in clusters and stages.  I want to start making
some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets.  I hope that answers
that.



On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:

> Christopher,
>
> What's the rush?  If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days ago.
> I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another email, I
> think you mentioned something about L3.
>
> Slow down, enjoy the journey.  There is lots to learn at each level of
> rocketry.  Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that you
> have a lot to learn about rocketry.  I'm not talking down to you, just
> trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along the
> way.
>
> I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
> you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
> Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level 3.
> The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3, but
> there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you when
> the time for L2 comes around.
>
> I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
> prior to L3.  Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
> experience, then grab that level 2.
>
> Ray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>
> I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt through
> a
> doubled up centering ring for each hook.  I will also have a  metal ring
> big
> enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and slides
> down the bolts.  This way the aft closure is butted against the metal ring
> and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a lock
> washer and a nut.  This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using an
> extension.  Will this still be an Issue?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes!  It will cause problems.  You typically want the nozzle to be at the
> > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone.  Unless
> you
> > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's motor
> > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end of
> > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch.  How are you planning
> to
> > retain your motor?  The commerical motor retention devices have their own
> > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
> > bottom
> > of the rocket.  This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction starts -
> > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
> >
> > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - the
> > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to the
> > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up against a
> > bulkhead for that.  The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube
> > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket.  That guarantees you
> > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
> > attending the launch.
> >
> > Jeff Moore
> > BORG
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone.  It has a 3.125" throat.  I
> want
> > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm.  This will have
> > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone.  Will this cause
> any
> > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
> >
> > See picture for reference at:
> >
> >
> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 17 15:12:07 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (raystoner99 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:12:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Anti-Zipper Airframe design
In-Reply-To: <3bc592c70909171441k520f9758yb291e3a7ea6f0dc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <288335400.2465741253225527250.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Aaron, 

The CP/CG relationship will definitely change. Usually this moves the CG forward, but every rocket is different. You'll also notice that zippers are minimized by using this technique. That's the "significant impact in flight" you'll notice. 

You want to build the fin can a bit longer than the longest motor you ever want to fly in the rocket, or you'll find yourself cutting the bulkhead out. If you plan to use motor eject in this configuration it is wise to ground test your eject charge to make sure it is robust enough to get the rocket apart. 

Ray 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Evans" <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com> 
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:41:48 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Anti-Zipper Airframe design 

I appreciate all of your suggestions, which have reinforced comments made by 
others. 
Robert Braibish and Carl Hamilton has both mentioned using an Anti-Zipper 
Fin Can design. 

As long as I'm understanding things correctly, the recommendation is to 
modify the rocket like those shown here: 
http://www.info-central.org/?article=132 
I think I want to use this design recommendation, but I have some questions 
if anyone can fill me in. 
Does the addition of the coupler, bulkhead and shock cord attachment 
hardware change the CG and CP relationship? 
Does this have any significant impact in flight? 
Would the length of the airframe (or something else) need to be changed? 
how much space would be needed between the front of the motor mount and the 
bulkhead? 
Much Appreciated 

-Aaron 



On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Robert Braibish <rbraibish at yahoo.com>wrote: 

> Hi Aaron, welcome. I echo Mike's recommendation for Binder Design kits and 
> would add that Mike is a great guy too. I wanted a kit for my son as a 
> Christmas present and (true to form) contacted him on a short notice. He 
> took the time to pull a kit together for me and be available at a time so 
> that I could swing by to pick it up (I live near his "home-base"). Thanks 
> again, Mike. I earned my L1 last year on an Aspire, and just this past 
> weekend had my 16th launch of the same rocket. On one of those flights, I 
> used too much of the ejection charge provided with the motor kit, had a 
> hardware failure (of my own doing) and separated the chute from the rocket, 
> 2100 ft free fall, and all I have to show for it is a crack in the paint 
> along a fin joint (the joint is still sound). As for modifications, I did 
> make some, but just for the challenge of it, the kit was great right out of 
> the bag. I did a zipper-less design and am very happy with 
> it, This is done by making the separation between the booster section and 
> the payload section much lower on the overall length of the rocket and have 
> the chute deploy out of the "bottom" of the payload section. This was 
> relatively easy to do with the Aspire kit and, if you are curious I can send 
> you pictures or more info, though there is plenty to be found out there... 
> it has the added benefit of making the booster section smaller and easier to 
> work with during construction. 
> One other thing, I did switch to a "U" bolt, I used the smallest "cable 
> clamp" type U bolt available, ground down the "washer" part of the cable 
> clamp so it was more "washer-like", filed down the nuts and extra bolt 
> ends and actually came in at less weight then the eye-bolt - and, have a 
> stronger union at the bulkhead (the load is distributed over a larger 
> area). I did dab epoxy on the nuts... keep it clean guy's!! I can hear the 
> chortles already!!... The rest of the rocket will whither to dust 
> before the U-bolt and bulkhead separate! I am sure it was more effort then 
> what was really needed but who among us has not done something just because 
> we wanted to try it...keeps those creative juices flowin'. 
> 
> Again, welcome and good luck on your Cert effort. 
> 
> Robert Braibish 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 


From rbraibish at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 15:14:40 2009
From: rbraibish at yahoo.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Anti-Zipper Airframe design
In-Reply-To: <3bc592c70909171441k520f9758yb291e3a7ea6f0dc3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3bc592c70909171441k520f9758yb291e3a7ea6f0dc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <254339.12777.qm@web43506.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

See below:



________________________________


As long as I'm understanding things correctly, the recommendation is to
modify the rocket like those shown here:
http://www.info-central.org/?article=132 

Yes, exactly.

Does the addition of the coupler, bulkhead and shock cord attachment
hardware change the CG and CP relationship?

Short answer, Yes.? but so does any change in rocket weight, large motor vs small etc.? The impact on my rocket was minimal, I check for and correct any CG/CP issues with each launch since I am flying close to the margin and the size of the motors I use can very so much.

Does this have any significant impact in flight?
No, not if you correct for it with weight in the front of the rocket.... otherwise your rocket will tend to be unstable off of the pad and then stabilize as it accelerates and burns up the fuel (adjusting CG)? 

The good impact of zipper-less design is that the Chute deploys in the line of flight and most of the stress of a sudden deceleration is felt on the very sturdy, solidly built, relatively?compact part of?your rocket, the?motor can. 

Would the length of the airframe (or something else) need to be changed?
No. This method does not change the CP (which you may recall is a function of your rocket profile and not its weight distribution).

how much space would be needed between the front of the motor mount and the
bulkhead?

You will want to determine what the largest motor you will be using and give yourself a little more room than that.? (The Aerotech website has PDF plans of all their motor casings)? I also included in my design a spark arrestor that fits between the forward (perforated) bulk head and the upper limit of my motor casing.

I will contact you directly (later tonight when I have a bit more time) with some more information about how I did all of this.


      

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Thu Sep 17 15:17:52 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:17:52 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A9F316@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

I tend to agree with Ray. But I also realize the rush. I'm at 5 years and still playing in L2 space. 

The one concern I have is the use of only three centering rings on a 54mm mount. If I did the math correctly, using 1/4" aircraft grade plywood, you have a contact surface area of 4.71 sq inches. Are you using aircraft grade ply? Using a J350 put forces at 53 pounds per sq inch. All held with epoxy. That might be enough, but again remember 53 pounds pressure per sq inch. With a J350 thrust, that would be like me (250 lbs) standing on your 54mm mmt and those three centering rings holding. 

Just something to think about. Calculate it all out, and follow the results. A J350 is a great L2 motor, because it really tests strength. But with a 2.2 second burn time, a J350 has no mercy. Peak thrust in the first 1/5th of a second. 

Chris - not trying to bum you out. Just the opposite. We all want you to enjoy the hobby. Safe, skilled, and having a good time.

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of raystoner99 at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:02 PM
To: Christopher Guenther
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?

Christopher, 

What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days ago. I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another email, I think you mentioned something about L3. 

Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that you have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along the way. 

I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2. Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level 3. The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3, but there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you when the time for L2 comes around. 

I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2 prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some experience, then grab that level 2. 

Ray 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> 
To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com> 
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn? 

I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt through a 
doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring big 
enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and slides 
down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal ring 
and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a lock 
washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using an 
extension. Will this still be an Issue? 



On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> wrote: 

> Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at the 
> very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless you 
> use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's motor 
> retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end of 
> the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you planning to 
> retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their own 
> requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the 
> bottom 
> of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction starts - 
> you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact! 
> 
> You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - the 
> motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to the 
> rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up against a 
> bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube 
> assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees you 
> don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people 
> attending the launch. 
> 
> Jeff Moore 
> BORG 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> 
> 
> 
> I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I want 
> to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will have 
> ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this cause any 
> issues with burning or melting of the tail cone? 
> 
> See picture for reference at: 
> 
> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 15:28:54 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:28:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A9F316@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A9F316@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909171528j65fc0b21k9b3b7b53de43e30f@mail.gmail.com>

I have changed the setup for a 38mm motor mount and 6 half inch aircraft
grade plywood centering rings.  I am getting the half inch by doubling the
centering rings at their points of contact. I have also gone to just a 36"
air frame and a nose cone.  I decided not to use the tail cone.  This way I
have enough materials left over to start the next project in which I intend
to be a 2 staged rocket.  That is if I get my L2.



On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Krausert, Robert <robert.krausert at intel.com
> wrote:

> I tend to agree with Ray. But I also realize the rush. I'm at 5 years and
> still playing in L2 space.
>
> The one concern I have is the use of only three centering rings on a 54mm
> mount. If I did the math correctly, using 1/4" aircraft grade plywood, you
> have a contact surface area of 4.71 sq inches. Are you using aircraft grade
> ply? Using a J350 put forces at 53 pounds per sq inch. All held with epoxy.
> That might be enough, but again remember 53 pounds pressure per sq inch.
> With a J350 thrust, that would be like me (250 lbs) standing on your 54mm
> mmt and those three centering rings holding.
>
> Just something to think about. Calculate it all out, and follow the
> results. A J350 is a great L2 motor, because it really tests strength. But
> with a 2.2 second burn time, a J350 has no mercy. Peak thrust in the first
> 1/5th of a second.
>
> Chris - not trying to bum you out. Just the opposite. We all want you to
> enjoy the hobby. Safe, skilled, and having a good time.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of raystoner99 at comcast.net
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:02 PM
> To: Christopher Guenther
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>
> Christopher,
>
> What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days ago.
> I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another email, I
> think you mentioned something about L3.
>
> Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of
> rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that you
> have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just trying
> to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along the way.
>
> I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
> you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
> Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level 3.
> The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3, but
> there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you when
> the time for L2 comes around.
>
> I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
> prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
> experience, then grab that level 2.
>
> Ray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>
> I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt through
> a
> doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring big
> enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and slides
> down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal ring
> and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a lock
> washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using an
> extension. Will this still be an Issue?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at the
> > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless you
> > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's motor
> > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end of
> > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you planning
> to
> > retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their own
> > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
> > bottom
> > of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction starts -
> > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
> >
> > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - the
> > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to the
> > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up against a
> > bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube
> > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees you
> > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
> > attending the launch.
> >
> > Jeff Moore
> > BORG
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I want
> > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will have
> > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this cause
> any
> > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
> >
> > See picture for reference at:
> >
> >
> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From carl20320 at msn.com  Thu Sep 17 15:39:35 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:39:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909171501y36eac71m5f13ebd68e43fa65@mail.gmail.com>
References: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <COL120-W152463166BED6D9358E752EAE10@phx.gbl>


I fail to see the logic in your reasoning to rush the L2 build/flight.  There is nothing that says you cannot cluster or stage at L1.  Any 2 H motors clustered or staged are only going to be an I which is allowed with the L1 cert.  You could even cluster more of the smaller H motors and still be within L1 territory.  With exactly 1 successful HPR flight under your belt, there is a lot to learn about construction before you jump off and start building and attempting to fly staged/clustered flights that require a L2 certification.

 

I've been flying HPR for 5 years now.  I was an L1 for over a year before I went for my L2.  I've been L2 ever since.  I just built my first rocket capable of multiple motors in a single flight.  There is a lot more to building complex motor mounts/rockets than what you will have learned from building one or 2 single motor rockets and having 1 or 2 flights under your belt.

 

Just my $0.02
 
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:01:38 -0700
> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> To: raystoner99 at comcast.net
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
> 
> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is mainly
> because my true interest is in clusters and stages. I want to start making
> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets. I hope that answers
> that.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > Christopher,
> >
> > What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days ago.
> > I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another email, I
> > think you mentioned something about L3.
> >
> > Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of
> > rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that you
> > have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just
> > trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along the
> > way.
> >
> > I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
> > you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
> > Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level 3.
> > The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3, but
> > there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you when
> > the time for L2 comes around.
> >
> > I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
> > prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
> > experience, then grab that level 2.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> > To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
> >
> > I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt through
> > a
> > doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring
> > big
> > enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and slides
> > down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal ring
> > and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a lock
> > washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using an
> > extension. Will this still be an Issue?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at the
> > > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless
> > you
> > > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's motor
> > > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end of
> > > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you planning
> > to
> > > retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their own
> > > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
> > > bottom
> > > of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction starts -
> > > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
> > >
> > > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - the
> > > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to the
> > > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up against a
> > > bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube
> > > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees you
> > > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
> > > attending the launch.
> > >
> > > Jeff Moore
> > > BORG
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I
> > want
> > > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will have
> > > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this cause
> > any
> > > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
> > >
> > > See picture for reference at:
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From aaron.l.evans at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 16:21:04 2009
From: aaron.l.evans at gmail.com (Aaron Evans)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:21:04 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
Message-ID: <3bc592c70909171621lc76bbd1mfebce165b4613b49@mail.gmail.com>

Dan Thank you for the suggestions, I also experience that kids & food issue
you mentioned.
I'll need to put some thought into that. I know I'll need to invest in some
motor casings.
As far as colors go, What is better for tracking, bright colors or high
contrast colors?
Are there colors that work better than others? colors to avoid? (other than
light blue)

Much appreciated
- Aaron

P.S.
Note to self - Do not put rocket in oven

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Dan Carlson <dcarlsons at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Hi Aaron,
>
> I recommend Binder Design Kits.  I have 4 Binder kits in my arsenal.  A
> Spike, Dragonfly, Thug and Excel Plus.  Still working on the Excel.  The
> other three I built on my dining room table with each of my three kids.
> After building two 2-1/2 inch diameter kits I built a 4 inch and it was
> easier for my kids and for me to work on.  It was also the one I certified
> for L1.  With the 4 inch kit I can actually get my paws down into the tube
> and I found it was easier to epoxy the tight space around the motor mount.
>
> A few things for you to consider:
>
> Launch cost.  Ask around a bit about motors.  Figure out what's driving
> your need to fly (ex:  bigger, more power, higher...or just like to fly...
> or just like the modeling aspect... etc).  For me, I can't hardly bring
> myself to spend $25 per launch so I stick with the less expensive 29mm
> versions.  After you buy the hardware, the 29mm motors will run between $12
> - $20.  Some folks are deeper in the pocket, have other alternatives, or
> don't have kids still at home that need food.
>
> I painted my first rocket light blue.   Dumb, dumb, dumb!  It also had a
> gold sage colored parachute.  Lose it in the sky, then lose it in the
> sage.... I've spent many hours searching for this crazy thing.  I've at
> least since changed the chute to bright red.
>
> The paint kits I now use are Duplicolor Mirage Kits.  The paint changes
> color depending on the angle of the sunlight.  They are a 3-in-one kit, and
> run around $25.  I let the kids pick out the colors.  Paint looks awesome
> in the sunlight.  I get my paint from the local auto store.  Found this
> link as well.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/DC-mirage.aspx
>
> For rail guides I use the Delrin (sp?) rail buttons with nylon.  I think
> most Binder kits come with these now.  I've never really liked the button
> attached directly to the body tube, so I cut a couple popsicle sticks,
> round the edges and epoxy them on.  Then I pre-drill the popscicle stick
> and screw the button on.  This way the button stands-off from the body
> tube.
>
> For motor retention I do like the Binder motor retainers.  There are a
> number of less expensive home made options for you in this area.  Depends
> on what you are after for looks, vs versatility, vs cost.
>
> Lastly, and I think most importantly, is that Mike Fisher of Binder is an
> excellent resource and his customer service has been excellent any time I
> have had a question.
>
> Best to you!
> -Dan
>
> Oh, one other thing I learned the hard way.... If you screw up the epoxy
> mixture and it turns to sticky goo, don't follow the advice of some online
> postings that say to take the rocket and heat it up in the oven......  Does
> not work!!  Cheers!
>
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Date: 9/16/2009 10:47:27 AM
>  > Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
> >
> > I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting
> for
> > Washington Aerospace.
> >
> > I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how
> welcomed I
> > was to the meeting.
> >
> > And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
> >
> >
> >
> > As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years.
> But
> > a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
> >
> > I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> > basic questions.
> >
> > And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> > have already come up many times before.
> >
> > But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
> >
> >
> >
> > With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
> > can use for a level 1 certification.
> >
> > At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> > looking for an easy to slap together kit.
> >
> > I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
> as-is.
> >
> > So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
> needs
> > to be modified.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
> > favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
> >
> > I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
> really
> > like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about
> it.
> >
> >
> >
> > I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> > hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> > questions I currently don't know to ask.
> >
> > As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance
> to
> > meet more of you soon.
> >
> >
> >
> > - Aaron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
>
>

From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net  Thu Sep 17 17:38:17 2009
From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:38:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W152463166BED6D9358E752EAE10@phx.gbl>
References: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<COL120-W152463166BED6D9358E752EAE10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B3D0C37C8B384F84A6F9387B85EA4645@Desktop>

Better crawl, walk, run than just take off running. Bigger motors carry 
higher cost. You can have tons of fun with a level 1 cert and it would give 
you time to get valuable experience. Just one way of doing 
things.........Mark

I'm not bashing just asking that you take a careful look.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl Degner" <carl20320 at msn.com>
To: "Rockets NW list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?


>
> I fail to see the logic in your reasoning to rush the L2 build/flight. 
> There is nothing that says you cannot cluster or stage at L1.  Any 2 H 
> motors clustered or staged are only going to be an I which is allowed with 
> the L1 cert.  You could even cluster more of the smaller H motors and 
> still be within L1 territory.  With exactly 1 successful HPR flight under 
> your belt, there is a lot to learn about construction before you jump off 
> and start building and attempting to fly staged/clustered flights that 
> require a L2 certification.
>
>
>
> I've been flying HPR for 5 years now.  I was an L1 for over a year before 
> I went for my L2.  I've been L2 ever since.  I just built my first rocket 
> capable of multiple motors in a single flight.  There is a lot more to 
> building complex motor mounts/rockets than what you will have learned from 
> building one or 2 single motor rockets and having 1 or 2 flights under 
> your belt.
>
>
>
> Just my $0.02
>
>> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:01:38 -0700
>> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> To: raystoner99 at comcast.net
>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>>
>> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is 
>> mainly
>> because my true interest is in clusters and stages. I want to start 
>> making
>> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets. I hope that answers
>> that.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Christopher,
>> >
>> > What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days 
>> > ago.
>> > I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another 
>> > email, I
>> > think you mentioned something about L3.
>> >
>> > Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of
>> > rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that 
>> > you
>> > have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just
>> > trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn 
>> > along the
>> > way.
>> >
>> > I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I 
>> > believe
>> > you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
>> > Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to 
>> > level 3.
>> > The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3, 
>> > but
>> > there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you 
>> > when
>> > the time for L2 comes around.
>> >
>> > I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
>> > prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
>> > experience, then grab that level 2.
>> >
>> > Ray
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> > To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada 
>> > Pacific
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>> >
>> > I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt 
>> > through
>> > a
>> > doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring
>> > big
>> > enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and 
>> > slides
>> > down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal 
>> > ring
>> > and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a 
>> > lock
>> > washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using 
>> > an
>> > extension. Will this still be an Issue?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at 
>> > > the
>> > > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless
>> > you
>> > > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's 
>> > > motor
>> > > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the 
>> > > end of
>> > > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you 
>> > > planning
>> > to
>> > > retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their 
>> > > own
>> > > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
>> > > bottom
>> > > of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction 
>> > > starts -
>> > > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
>> > >
>> > > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - 
>> > > the
>> > > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to 
>> > > the
>> > > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up 
>> > > against a
>> > > bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor 
>> > > tube
>> > > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees 
>> > > you
>> > > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
>> > > attending the launch.
>> > >
>> > > Jeff Moore
>> > > BORG
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I
>> > want
>> > > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will 
>> > > have
>> > > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this 
>> > > cause
>> > any
>> > > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>> > >
>> > > See picture for reference at:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 



From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 18:19:25 2009
From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:19:25 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
Message-ID: <cfd.6144d194.37e43a1d@aol.com>

3 centering rings are plenty.  No need to overbuild.  Mike only includes 
two in some of his 54mm kits and he hammers them with all sorts of motors 
before he sells them.  My 4" bird Skeletor only has 3-3/16" ply rings and has 
flown on one I, many Js 38s and 54s, a few Ks and a couple of Ls.  They seem 
to hold up fine.  One thing to remember is in addition to the rings connected 
to the tube if you use through the wall fins those tabs are like stringers 
running between the rings.

By the way, you can do clusters as an L1 too.  You don't have to be L2 
certified.

Lou

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Thu Sep 17 18:22:03 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:22:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
References: <3bc592c70909171621lc76bbd1mfebce165b4613b49@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

My students learned the hard way during their first year that painting a rocket blue, grey, and white (Ingraham's School Colors) is a bad idea...no matter whether the sky was clear, cloudy, or stormy, they could never see the d@#& thing.  They have also learned over time that intricate patterns tend to blur at high speeds and when far away.
 
They have learned to look for paint colors not commonly found in nature at the places they will be launching their rockets.  (One of my female students constantly taunts the boys by telling them "Real men fly pink rockets")
 
The best paint jobs for visibility have large blocks of contrasting color.  Think along the lines of one half fluorescent orange and the other half black or the like. 
 
Of course...you could always stick a Walston, Beeline, or GPS-based tracking device in the thing and not worry about what color it is...but that's another matter.  :-)
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Aaron Evans
Sent: Thu 9/17/2009 4:21 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors



Dan Thank you for the suggestions, I also experience that kids & food issue
you mentioned.
I'll need to put some thought into that. I know I'll need to invest in some
motor casings.
As far as colors go, What is better for tracking, bright colors or high
contrast colors?
Are there colors that work better than others? colors to avoid? (other than
light blue)

Much appreciated
- Aaron

P.S.
Note to self - Do not put rocket in oven

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Dan Carlson <dcarlsons at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Hi Aaron,
>
> I recommend Binder Design Kits.  I have 4 Binder kits in my arsenal.  A
> Spike, Dragonfly, Thug and Excel Plus.  Still working on the Excel.  The
> other three I built on my dining room table with each of my three kids.
> After building two 2-1/2 inch diameter kits I built a 4 inch and it was
> easier for my kids and for me to work on.  It was also the one I certified
> for L1.  With the 4 inch kit I can actually get my paws down into the tube
> and I found it was easier to epoxy the tight space around the motor mount.
>
> A few things for you to consider:
>
> Launch cost.  Ask around a bit about motors.  Figure out what's driving
> your need to fly (ex:  bigger, more power, higher...or just like to fly...
> or just like the modeling aspect... etc).  For me, I can't hardly bring
> myself to spend $25 per launch so I stick with the less expensive 29mm
> versions.  After you buy the hardware, the 29mm motors will run between $12
> - $20.  Some folks are deeper in the pocket, have other alternatives, or
> don't have kids still at home that need food.
>
> I painted my first rocket light blue.   Dumb, dumb, dumb!  It also had a
> gold sage colored parachute.  Lose it in the sky, then lose it in the
> sage.... I've spent many hours searching for this crazy thing.  I've at
> least since changed the chute to bright red.
>
> The paint kits I now use are Duplicolor Mirage Kits.  The paint changes
> color depending on the angle of the sunlight.  They are a 3-in-one kit, and
> run around $25.  I let the kids pick out the colors.  Paint looks awesome
> in the sunlight.  I get my paint from the local auto store.  Found this
> link as well.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/DC-mirage.aspx
>
> For rail guides I use the Delrin (sp?) rail buttons with nylon.  I think
> most Binder kits come with these now.  I've never really liked the button
> attached directly to the body tube, so I cut a couple popsicle sticks,
> round the edges and epoxy them on.  Then I pre-drill the popscicle stick
> and screw the button on.  This way the button stands-off from the body
> tube.
>
> For motor retention I do like the Binder motor retainers.  There are a
> number of less expensive home made options for you in this area.  Depends
> on what you are after for looks, vs versatility, vs cost.
>
> Lastly, and I think most importantly, is that Mike Fisher of Binder is an
> excellent resource and his customer service has been excellent any time I
> have had a question.
>
> Best to you!
> -Dan
>
> Oh, one other thing I learned the hard way.... If you screw up the epoxy
> mixture and it turns to sticky goo, don't follow the advice of some online
> postings that say to take the rocket and heat it up in the oven......  Does
> not work!!  Cheers!
>
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Date: 9/16/2009 10:47:27 AM
>  > Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
> >
> > I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting
> for
> > Washington Aerospace.
> >
> > I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how
> welcomed I
> > was to the meeting.
> >
> > And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
> >
> >
> >
> > As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years.
> But
> > a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
> >
> > I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some pretty
> > basic questions.
> >
> > And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> > have already come up many times before.
> >
> > But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
> >
> >
> >
> > With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that I
> > can use for a level 1 certification.
> >
> > At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> > looking for an easy to slap together kit.
> >
> > I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
> as-is.
> >
> > So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
> needs
> > to be modified.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs in
> > favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
> >
> > I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
> really
> > like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about
> it.
> >
> >
> >
> > I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> > hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> > questions I currently don't know to ask.
> >
> > As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a chance
> to
> > meet more of you soon.
> >
> >
> >
> > - Aaron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 18:25:26 2009
From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:25:26 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
Message-ID: <c6b.5de55d06.37e43b86@aol.com>

I like orange, red, black, dark blue, purple, yellow and white for high 
visibility.  As far as colors to avoid light blue, forest/grass green, tan.  
These three seem to blend in to the sky, trees/ground and ground respectively. 
 Also naked rockets like to blend into dirt really well.  I always at least 
put primer on to help in spotting it.

Hope that helps,

Lou

From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 17 18:42:53 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:42:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <3bc592c70909171621lc76bbd1mfebce165b4613b49@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <E1C74D14A1964F85A231039360994807@DellNotebook>

Which is also why I favor the fluorescent 'construction' colors.
I heard once that the fluorescent green/yellow chartreuse is the most
visible color you can get. Works pretty well

john

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:22 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors

My students learned the hard way during their first year that painting a
rocket blue, grey, and white (Ingraham's School Colors) is a bad idea...no
matter whether the sky was clear, cloudy, or stormy, they could never see
the d@#& thing.  They have also learned over time that intricate patterns
tend to blur at high speeds and when far away.
 
They have learned to look for paint colors not commonly found in nature at
the places they will be launching their rockets.  (One of my female students
constantly taunts the boys by telling them "Real men fly pink rockets")
 
The best paint jobs for visibility have large blocks of contrasting color.
Think along the lines of one half fluorescent orange and the other half
black or the like. 
 
Of course...you could always stick a Walston, Beeline, or GPS-based tracking
device in the thing and not worry about what color it is...but that's
another matter.  :-)
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Aaron Evans
Sent: Thu 9/17/2009 4:21 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors



Dan Thank you for the suggestions, I also experience that kids & food issue
you mentioned.
I'll need to put some thought into that. I know I'll need to invest in some
motor casings.
As far as colors go, What is better for tracking, bright colors or high
contrast colors?
Are there colors that work better than others? colors to avoid? (other than
light blue)

Much appreciated
- Aaron

P.S.
Note to self - Do not put rocket in oven

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Dan Carlson <dcarlsons at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Hi Aaron,
>
> I recommend Binder Design Kits.  I have 4 Binder kits in my arsenal.  A
> Spike, Dragonfly, Thug and Excel Plus.  Still working on the Excel.  The
> other three I built on my dining room table with each of my three kids.
> After building two 2-1/2 inch diameter kits I built a 4 inch and it was
> easier for my kids and for me to work on.  It was also the one I certified
> for L1.  With the 4 inch kit I can actually get my paws down into the tube
> and I found it was easier to epoxy the tight space around the motor mount.
>
> A few things for you to consider:
>
> Launch cost.  Ask around a bit about motors.  Figure out what's driving
> your need to fly (ex:  bigger, more power, higher...or just like to fly...
> or just like the modeling aspect... etc).  For me, I can't hardly bring
> myself to spend $25 per launch so I stick with the less expensive 29mm
> versions.  After you buy the hardware, the 29mm motors will run between
$12
> - $20.  Some folks are deeper in the pocket, have other alternatives, or
> don't have kids still at home that need food.
>
> I painted my first rocket light blue.   Dumb, dumb, dumb!  It also had a
> gold sage colored parachute.  Lose it in the sky, then lose it in the
> sage.... I've spent many hours searching for this crazy thing.  I've at
> least since changed the chute to bright red.
>
> The paint kits I now use are Duplicolor Mirage Kits.  The paint changes
> color depending on the angle of the sunlight.  They are a 3-in-one kit,
and
> run around $25.  I let the kids pick out the colors.  Paint looks awesome
> in the sunlight.  I get my paint from the local auto store.  Found this
> link as well.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/DC-mirage.aspx
>
> For rail guides I use the Delrin (sp?) rail buttons with nylon.  I think
> most Binder kits come with these now.  I've never really liked the button
> attached directly to the body tube, so I cut a couple popsicle sticks,
> round the edges and epoxy them on.  Then I pre-drill the popscicle stick
> and screw the button on.  This way the button stands-off from the body
> tube.
>
> For motor retention I do like the Binder motor retainers.  There are a
> number of less expensive home made options for you in this area.  Depends
> on what you are after for looks, vs versatility, vs cost.
>
> Lastly, and I think most importantly, is that Mike Fisher of Binder is an
> excellent resource and his customer service has been excellent any time I
> have had a question.
>
> Best to you!
> -Dan
>
> Oh, one other thing I learned the hard way.... If you screw up the epoxy
> mixture and it turns to sticky goo, don't follow the advice of some online
> postings that say to take the rocket and heat it up in the oven......
Does
> not work!!  Cheers!
>
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Date: 9/16/2009 10:47:27 AM
>  > Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
> >
> > I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting
> for
> > Washington Aerospace.
> >
> > I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how
> welcomed I
> > was to the meeting.
> >
> > And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
> >
> >
> >
> > As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years.
> But
> > a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
> >
> > I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some
pretty
> > basic questions.
> >
> > And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> > have already come up many times before.
> >
> > But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
> >
> >
> >
> > With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that
I
> > can use for a level 1 certification.
> >
> > At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> > looking for an easy to slap together kit.
> >
> > I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
> as-is.
> >
> > So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
> needs
> > to be modified.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs
in
> > favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
> >
> > I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
> really
> > like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about
> it.
> >
> >
> >
> > I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> > hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> > questions I currently don't know to ask.
> >
> > As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a
chance
> to
> > meet more of you soon.
> >
> >
> >
> > - Aaron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From winningstad at comcast.net  Thu Sep 17 18:48:16 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:48:16 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <3bc592c70909171621lc76bbd1mfebce165b4613b49@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <0b0801ca3802$178f0760$46ad1620$@net>

My experience is they all turn black when they get way up...except the blue
ones :D

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:22 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors

My students learned the hard way during their first year that painting a
rocket blue, grey, and white (Ingraham's School Colors) is a bad idea...no
matter whether the sky was clear, cloudy, or stormy, they could never see
the d@#& thing.  They have also learned over time that intricate patterns
tend to blur at high speeds and when far away.
 
They have learned to look for paint colors not commonly found in nature at
the places they will be launching their rockets.  (One of my female students
constantly taunts the boys by telling them "Real men fly pink rockets")
 
The best paint jobs for visibility have large blocks of contrasting color.
Think along the lines of one half fluorescent orange and the other half
black or the like. 
 
Of course...you could always stick a Walston, Beeline, or GPS-based tracking
device in the thing and not worry about what color it is...but that's
another matter.  :-)
 
Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St.
Seattle, WA  98133

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Aaron Evans
Sent: Thu 9/17/2009 4:21 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors



Dan Thank you for the suggestions, I also experience that kids & food issue
you mentioned.
I'll need to put some thought into that. I know I'll need to invest in some
motor casings.
As far as colors go, What is better for tracking, bright colors or high
contrast colors?
Are there colors that work better than others? colors to avoid? (other than
light blue)

Much appreciated
- Aaron

P.S.
Note to self - Do not put rocket in oven

On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Dan Carlson <dcarlsons at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Hi Aaron,
>
> I recommend Binder Design Kits.  I have 4 Binder kits in my arsenal.  A
> Spike, Dragonfly, Thug and Excel Plus.  Still working on the Excel.  The
> other three I built on my dining room table with each of my three kids.
> After building two 2-1/2 inch diameter kits I built a 4 inch and it was
> easier for my kids and for me to work on.  It was also the one I certified
> for L1.  With the 4 inch kit I can actually get my paws down into the tube
> and I found it was easier to epoxy the tight space around the motor mount.
>
> A few things for you to consider:
>
> Launch cost.  Ask around a bit about motors.  Figure out what's driving
> your need to fly (ex:  bigger, more power, higher...or just like to fly...
> or just like the modeling aspect... etc).  For me, I can't hardly bring
> myself to spend $25 per launch so I stick with the less expensive 29mm
> versions.  After you buy the hardware, the 29mm motors will run between
$12
> - $20.  Some folks are deeper in the pocket, have other alternatives, or
> don't have kids still at home that need food.
>
> I painted my first rocket light blue.   Dumb, dumb, dumb!  It also had a
> gold sage colored parachute.  Lose it in the sky, then lose it in the
> sage.... I've spent many hours searching for this crazy thing.  I've at
> least since changed the chute to bright red.
>
> The paint kits I now use are Duplicolor Mirage Kits.  The paint changes
> color depending on the angle of the sunlight.  They are a 3-in-one kit,
and
> run around $25.  I let the kids pick out the colors.  Paint looks awesome
> in the sunlight.  I get my paint from the local auto store.  Found this
> link as well.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/DC-mirage.aspx
>
> For rail guides I use the Delrin (sp?) rail buttons with nylon.  I think
> most Binder kits come with these now.  I've never really liked the button
> attached directly to the body tube, so I cut a couple popsicle sticks,
> round the edges and epoxy them on.  Then I pre-drill the popscicle stick
> and screw the button on.  This way the button stands-off from the body
> tube.
>
> For motor retention I do like the Binder motor retainers.  There are a
> number of less expensive home made options for you in this area.  Depends
> on what you are after for looks, vs versatility, vs cost.
>
> Lastly, and I think most importantly, is that Mike Fisher of Binder is an
> excellent resource and his customer service has been excellent any time I
> have had a question.
>
> Best to you!
> -Dan
>
> Oh, one other thing I learned the hard way.... If you screw up the epoxy
> mixture and it turns to sticky goo, don't follow the advice of some online
> postings that say to take the rocket and heat it up in the oven......
Does
> not work!!  Cheers!
>
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Date: 9/16/2009 10:47:27 AM
>  > Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
> >
> > I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club meeting
> for
> > Washington Aerospace.
> >
> > I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how
> welcomed I
> > was to the meeting.
> >
> > And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW community.
> >
> >
> >
> > As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years.
> But
> > a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
> >
> > I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some
pretty
> > basic questions.
> >
> > And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these questions
> > have already come up many times before.
> >
> > But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
> >
> >
> >
> > With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that
I
> > can use for a level 1 certification.
> >
> > At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not just
> > looking for an easy to slap together kit.
> >
> > I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
> as-is.
> >
> > So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
> needs
> > to be modified.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs
in
> > favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
> >
> > I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
> really
> > like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about
> it.
> >
> >
> >
> > I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
> > hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
> > questions I currently don't know to ask.
> >
> > As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a
chance
> to
> > meet more of you soon.
> >
> >
> >
> > - Aaron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 18:54:44 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:54:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
References: <3bc592c70909171621lc76bbd1mfebce165b4613b49@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<E1C74D14A1964F85A231039360994807@DellNotebook>
Message-ID: <41F8493731CB4864B668C622CD9E2502@LaptopKrausert>

Another thing to remember when flying at the Brothers Oregon site. If you're 
a kid flying, the laundry drapes nicely on top of the sage, visible to all. 
If you're an adult, the little critters drag your laundry down and hide it 
under the sage brush. That said, the more fluorescent the better in my 
opinion.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Armitage" <jjarmitage at earthlink.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors


> Which is also why I favor the fluorescent 'construction' colors.
> I heard once that the fluorescent green/yellow chartreuse is the most
> visible color you can get. Works pretty well
>
> john
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:22 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
>
> My students learned the hard way during their first year that painting a
> rocket blue, grey, and white (Ingraham's School Colors) is a bad idea...no
> matter whether the sky was clear, cloudy, or stormy, they could never see
> the d@#& thing.  They have also learned over time that intricate patterns
> tend to blur at high speeds and when far away.
>
> They have learned to look for paint colors not commonly found in nature at
> the places they will be launching their rockets.  (One of my female 
> students
> constantly taunts the boys by telling them "Real men fly pink rockets")
>
> The best paint jobs for visibility have large blocks of contrasting color.
> Think along the lines of one half fluorescent orange and the other half
> black or the like.
>
> Of course...you could always stick a Walston, Beeline, or GPS-based 
> tracking
> device in the thing and not worry about what color it is...but that's
> another matter.  :-)
>
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St.
> Seattle, WA  98133
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Aaron Evans
> Sent: Thu 9/17/2009 4:21 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
>
>
>
> Dan Thank you for the suggestions, I also experience that kids & food 
> issue
> you mentioned.
> I'll need to put some thought into that. I know I'll need to invest in 
> some
> motor casings.
> As far as colors go, What is better for tracking, bright colors or high
> contrast colors?
> Are there colors that work better than others? colors to avoid? (other 
> than
> light blue)
>
> Much appreciated
> - Aaron
>
> P.S.
> Note to self - Do not put rocket in oven
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Dan Carlson 
> <dcarlsons at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi Aaron,
>>
>> I recommend Binder Design Kits.  I have 4 Binder kits in my arsenal.  A
>> Spike, Dragonfly, Thug and Excel Plus.  Still working on the Excel.  The
>> other three I built on my dining room table with each of my three kids.
>> After building two 2-1/2 inch diameter kits I built a 4 inch and it was
>> easier for my kids and for me to work on.  It was also the one I 
>> certified
>> for L1.  With the 4 inch kit I can actually get my paws down into the 
>> tube
>> and I found it was easier to epoxy the tight space around the motor 
>> mount.
>>
>> A few things for you to consider:
>>
>> Launch cost.  Ask around a bit about motors.  Figure out what's driving
>> your need to fly (ex:  bigger, more power, higher...or just like to 
>> fly...
>> or just like the modeling aspect... etc).  For me, I can't hardly bring
>> myself to spend $25 per launch so I stick with the less expensive 29mm
>> versions.  After you buy the hardware, the 29mm motors will run between
> $12
>> - $20.  Some folks are deeper in the pocket, have other alternatives, or
>> don't have kids still at home that need food.
>>
>> I painted my first rocket light blue.   Dumb, dumb, dumb!  It also had a
>> gold sage colored parachute.  Lose it in the sky, then lose it in the
>> sage.... I've spent many hours searching for this crazy thing.  I've at
>> least since changed the chute to bright red.
>>
>> The paint kits I now use are Duplicolor Mirage Kits.  The paint changes
>> color depending on the angle of the sunlight.  They are a 3-in-one kit,
> and
>> run around $25.  I let the kids pick out the colors.  Paint looks awesome
>> in the sunlight.  I get my paint from the local auto store.  Found this
>> link as well.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/DC-mirage.aspx
>>
>> For rail guides I use the Delrin (sp?) rail buttons with nylon.  I think
>> most Binder kits come with these now.  I've never really liked the button
>> attached directly to the body tube, so I cut a couple popsicle sticks,
>> round the edges and epoxy them on.  Then I pre-drill the popscicle stick
>> and screw the button on.  This way the button stands-off from the body
>> tube.
>>
>> For motor retention I do like the Binder motor retainers.  There are a
>> number of less expensive home made options for you in this area.  Depends
>> on what you are after for looks, vs versatility, vs cost.
>>
>> Lastly, and I think most importantly, is that Mike Fisher of Binder is an
>> excellent resource and his customer service has been excellent any time I
>> have had a question.
>>
>> Best to you!
>> -Dan
>>
>> Oh, one other thing I learned the hard way.... If you screw up the epoxy
>> mixture and it turns to sticky goo, don't follow the advice of some 
>> online
>> postings that say to take the rocket and heat it up in the oven......
> Does
>> not work!!  Cheers!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
>> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Date: 9/16/2009 10:47:27 AM
>>  > Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>> >
>> > I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club 
>> > meeting
>> for
>> > Washington Aerospace.
>> >
>> > I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how
>> welcomed I
>> > was to the meeting.
>> >
>> > And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW 
>> > community.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years.
>> But
>> > a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>> >
>> > I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some
> pretty
>> > basic questions.
>> >
>> > And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these 
>> > questions
>> > have already come up many times before.
>> >
>> > But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that
> I
>> > can use for a level 1 certification.
>> >
>> > At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not 
>> > just
>> > looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>> >
>> > I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
>> as-is.
>> >
>> > So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
>> needs
>> > to be modified.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs
> in
>> > favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>> >
>> > I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
>> really
>> > like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about
>> it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
>> > hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
>> > questions I currently don't know to ask.
>> >
>> > As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a
> chance
>> to
>> > meet more of you soon.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > - Aaron
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 17 19:01:36 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:01:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
In-Reply-To: <41F8493731CB4864B668C622CD9E2502@LaptopKrausert>
References: <3bc592c70909171621lc76bbd1mfebce165b4613b49@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<E1C74D14A1964F85A231039360994807@DellNotebook>
	<41F8493731CB4864B668C622CD9E2502@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <EFB3E7B88D3948D08D4A31D81B053F16@DellNotebook>

Ahhh, the Sagebrush Triangle, I've experienced that phenomenon!
Twice


john

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:55 PM
To: John Armitage; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors

Another thing to remember when flying at the Brothers Oregon site. If you're

a kid flying, the laundry drapes nicely on top of the sage, visible to all. 
If you're an adult, the little critters drag your laundry down and hide it 
under the sage brush. That said, the more fluorescent the better in my 
opinion.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Armitage" <jjarmitage at earthlink.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors


> Which is also why I favor the fluorescent 'construction' colors.
> I heard once that the fluorescent green/yellow chartreuse is the most
> visible color you can get. Works pretty well
>
> john
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:22 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
>
> My students learned the hard way during their first year that painting a
> rocket blue, grey, and white (Ingraham's School Colors) is a bad idea...no
> matter whether the sky was clear, cloudy, or stormy, they could never see
> the d@#& thing.  They have also learned over time that intricate patterns
> tend to blur at high speeds and when far away.
>
> They have learned to look for paint colors not commonly found in nature at
> the places they will be launching their rockets.  (One of my female 
> students
> constantly taunts the boys by telling them "Real men fly pink rockets")
>
> The best paint jobs for visibility have large blocks of contrasting color.
> Think along the lines of one half fluorescent orange and the other half
> black or the like.
>
> Of course...you could always stick a Walston, Beeline, or GPS-based 
> tracking
> device in the thing and not worry about what color it is...but that's
> another matter.  :-)
>
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St.
> Seattle, WA  98133
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Aaron Evans
> Sent: Thu 9/17/2009 4:21 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
>
>
>
> Dan Thank you for the suggestions, I also experience that kids & food 
> issue
> you mentioned.
> I'll need to put some thought into that. I know I'll need to invest in 
> some
> motor casings.
> As far as colors go, What is better for tracking, bright colors or high
> contrast colors?
> Are there colors that work better than others? colors to avoid? (other 
> than
> light blue)
>
> Much appreciated
> - Aaron
>
> P.S.
> Note to self - Do not put rocket in oven
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Dan Carlson 
> <dcarlsons at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi Aaron,
>>
>> I recommend Binder Design Kits.  I have 4 Binder kits in my arsenal.  A
>> Spike, Dragonfly, Thug and Excel Plus.  Still working on the Excel.  The
>> other three I built on my dining room table with each of my three kids.
>> After building two 2-1/2 inch diameter kits I built a 4 inch and it was
>> easier for my kids and for me to work on.  It was also the one I 
>> certified
>> for L1.  With the 4 inch kit I can actually get my paws down into the 
>> tube
>> and I found it was easier to epoxy the tight space around the motor 
>> mount.
>>
>> A few things for you to consider:
>>
>> Launch cost.  Ask around a bit about motors.  Figure out what's driving
>> your need to fly (ex:  bigger, more power, higher...or just like to 
>> fly...
>> or just like the modeling aspect... etc).  For me, I can't hardly bring
>> myself to spend $25 per launch so I stick with the less expensive 29mm
>> versions.  After you buy the hardware, the 29mm motors will run between
> $12
>> - $20.  Some folks are deeper in the pocket, have other alternatives, or
>> don't have kids still at home that need food.
>>
>> I painted my first rocket light blue.   Dumb, dumb, dumb!  It also had a
>> gold sage colored parachute.  Lose it in the sky, then lose it in the
>> sage.... I've spent many hours searching for this crazy thing.  I've at
>> least since changed the chute to bright red.
>>
>> The paint kits I now use are Duplicolor Mirage Kits.  The paint changes
>> color depending on the angle of the sunlight.  They are a 3-in-one kit,
> and
>> run around $25.  I let the kids pick out the colors.  Paint looks awesome
>> in the sunlight.  I get my paint from the local auto store.  Found this
>> link as well.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/DC-mirage.aspx
>>
>> For rail guides I use the Delrin (sp?) rail buttons with nylon.  I think
>> most Binder kits come with these now.  I've never really liked the button
>> attached directly to the body tube, so I cut a couple popsicle sticks,
>> round the edges and epoxy them on.  Then I pre-drill the popscicle stick
>> and screw the button on.  This way the button stands-off from the body
>> tube.
>>
>> For motor retention I do like the Binder motor retainers.  There are a
>> number of less expensive home made options for you in this area.  Depends
>> on what you are after for looks, vs versatility, vs cost.
>>
>> Lastly, and I think most importantly, is that Mike Fisher of Binder is an
>> excellent resource and his customer service has been excellent any time I
>> have had a question.
>>
>> Best to you!
>> -Dan
>>
>> Oh, one other thing I learned the hard way.... If you screw up the epoxy
>> mixture and it turns to sticky goo, don't follow the advice of some 
>> online
>> postings that say to take the rocket and heat it up in the oven......
> Does
>> not work!!  Cheers!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
>> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Date: 9/16/2009 10:47:27 AM
>>  > Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>> >
>> > I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club 
>> > meeting
>> for
>> > Washington Aerospace.
>> >
>> > I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how
>> welcomed I
>> > was to the meeting.
>> >
>> > And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW 
>> > community.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25 years.
>> But
>> > a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>> >
>> > I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some
> pretty
>> > basic questions.
>> >
>> > And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these 
>> > questions
>> > have already come up many times before.
>> >
>> > But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket that
> I
>> > can use for a level 1 certification.
>> >
>> > At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not 
>> > just
>> > looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>> >
>> > I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
>> as-is.
>> >
>> > So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
>> needs
>> > to be modified.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs
> in
>> > favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>> >
>> > I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
>> really
>> > like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews about
>> it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter. I'm
>> > hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
>> > questions I currently don't know to ask.
>> >
>> > As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a
> chance
>> to
>> > meet more of you soon.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > - Aaron
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 19:10:23 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:10:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC Oct 1st mtg; Seeking Show & Tell Topics
Message-ID: <4634995DA6C1455B9774483E01FD9CA1@LaptopKrausert>

Hello,
The next OregonRocketry meeting is Thursday October 1st. Two weeks. If you are working on or have completed a project that you'd like share at the meeting, please let me know by next Thursday. I'll send the final agenda then.

Steve Mr. MD7MRX Tarr, sir - I have you down for your topic request. Was that address to you formal enough Steve? I could have said, Grand Master Tarr.

Cheers,
Robert 

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Thu Sep 17 20:19:37 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:19:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909171528j65fc0b21k9b3b7b53de43e30f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E41A9F316@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<e83b26700909171528j65fc0b21k9b3b7b53de43e30f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd5f2b001e3b665ec211788b8e49e510.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Good choice about the tail cone.  If I understood you correctly, you would
have had severe erosion inside the cone and quite possibly re-discovered
the dreaded "Krushnik effect."

Nozzle exit plane is generally the rearmost part of a rocket body.
+McG+


> I have changed the setup for a 38mm motor mount and 6 half inch aircraft
> grade plywood centering rings.  I am getting the half inch by doubling the
> centering rings at their points of contact. I have also gone to just a 36"
> air frame and a nose cone.  I decided not to use the tail cone.  This way
> I
> have enough materials left over to start the next project in which I
> intend
> to be a 2 staged rocket.  That is if I get my L2.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Krausert, Robert
> <robert.krausert at intel.com
>> wrote:
>
>> I tend to agree with Ray. But I also realize the rush. I'm at 5 years
>> and
>> still playing in L2 space.
>>
>> The one concern I have is the use of only three centering rings on a
>> 54mm
>> mount. If I did the math correctly, using 1/4" aircraft grade plywood,
>> you
>> have a contact surface area of 4.71 sq inches. Are you using aircraft
>> grade
>> ply? Using a J350 put forces at 53 pounds per sq inch. All held with
>> epoxy.
>> That might be enough, but again remember 53 pounds pressure per sq inch.
>> With a J350 thrust, that would be like me (250 lbs) standing on your
>> 54mm
>> mmt and those three centering rings holding.
>>
>> Just something to think about. Calculate it all out, and follow the
>> results. A J350 is a great L2 motor, because it really tests strength.
>> But
>> with a 2.2 second burn time, a J350 has no mercy. Peak thrust in the
>> first
>> 1/5th of a second.
>>
>> Chris - not trying to bum you out. Just the opposite. We all want you to
>> enjoy the hobby. Safe, skilled, and having a good time.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of raystoner99 at comcast.net
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:02 PM
>> To: Christopher Guenther
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>>
>> Christopher,
>>
>> What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days ago.
>> I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another
>> email, I
>> think you mentioned something about L3.
>>
>> Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of
>> rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that you
>> have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just
>> trying
>> to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along the
>> way.
>>
>> I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
>> you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
>> Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level
>> 3.
>> The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3,
>> but
>> there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you
>> when
>> the time for L2 comes around.
>>
>> I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
>> prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
>> experience, then grab that level 2.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
>> Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>>
>> I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt
>> through
>> a
>> doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring
>> big
>> enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and
>> slides
>> down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal
>> ring
>> and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a
>> lock
>> washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using
>> an
>> extension. Will this still be an Issue?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at
>> the
>> > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless
>> you
>> > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's
>> motor
>> > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end
>> of
>> > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you
>> planning
>> to
>> > retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their
>> own
>> > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
>> > bottom
>> > of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction starts
>> -
>> > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
>> >
>> > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors -
>> the
>> > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to
>> the
>> > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up
>> against a
>> > bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube
>> > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees
>> you
>> > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
>> > attending the launch.
>> >
>> > Jeff Moore
>> > BORG
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I
>> want
>> > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will
>> have
>> > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this cause
>> any
>> > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>> >
>> > See picture for reference at:
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Thu Sep 17 20:38:59 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909171501y36eac71m5f13ebd68e43fa65@mail.gmail.com>
References: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<e83b26700909171501y36eac71m5f13ebd68e43fa65@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4fd0c131a99a3e3cdb4821947ed74d36.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Christopher,
Clustering composite motors isn't like clustering Estes motors.  Ignition
reliability and timing is a real problem.

My feeling personally is that you shouldn't even think about clustering
composite motors until you have a long track record of at least 90%
first-try launches of single composite motors.

As an FSO I give all composite clusters and their builders extra scrutiny.
(Usually, if I can, I hand off the job to someone with more experience in
that specific area for the sake of safety.) Anyone on the list who has
launched high power clusters and airstarts has plenty of stories to tell
of things not going according to plan.

The irony is, clustering the smaller composite motors is more difficult
than clustering the bigger ones due to igniter issues.
+McG+


> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is
> mainly
> because my true interest is in clusters and stages.  I want to start
> making
> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets.  I hope that answers
> that.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Christopher,
>>
>> What's the rush?  If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days
>> ago.
>> I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another
>> email, I
>> think you mentioned something about L3.
>>
>> Slow down, enjoy the journey.  There is lots to learn at each level of
>> rocketry.  Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that
>> you
>> have a lot to learn about rocketry.  I'm not talking down to you, just
>> trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along
>> the
>> way.
>>
>> I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
>> you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
>> Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level
>> 3.
>> The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3,
>> but
>> there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you
>> when
>> the time for L2 comes around.
>>
>> I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
>> prior to L3.  Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
>> experience, then grab that level 2.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
>> Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>>
>> I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt
>> through
>> a
>> doubled up centering ring for each hook.  I will also have a  metal ring
>> big
>> enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and
>> slides
>> down the bolts.  This way the aft closure is butted against the metal
>> ring
>> and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a
>> lock
>> washer and a nut.  This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using
>> an
>> extension.  Will this still be an Issue?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Yes!  It will cause problems.  You typically want the nozzle to be at
>> the
>> > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone.  Unless
>> you
>> > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's
>> motor
>> > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end
>> of
>> > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch.  How are you
>> planning
>> to
>> > retain your motor?  The commerical motor retention devices have their
>> own
>> > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
>> > bottom
>> > of the rocket.  This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction
>> starts -
>> > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
>> >
>> > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors -
>> the
>> > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to
>> the
>> > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up
>> against a
>> > bulkhead for that.  The last thing you want is the motor and motor
>> tube
>> > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket.  That guarantees
>> you
>> > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
>> > attending the launch.
>> >
>> > Jeff Moore
>> > BORG
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone.  It has a 3.125" throat.  I
>> want
>> > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm.  This will
>> have
>> > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone.  Will this
>> cause
>> any
>> > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>> >
>> > See picture for reference at:
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Thu Sep 17 20:43:47 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
In-Reply-To: <0b0801ca3802$178f0760$46ad1620$@net>
References: <3bc592c70909171621lc76bbd1mfebce165b4613b49@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<0b0801ca3802$178f0760$46ad1620$@net>
Message-ID: <ae635234c7d373a3f97131d05601c955.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

My experience is that they *all* turn sky blue when they get way up.  :D
+McG+


> My experience is they all turn black when they get way up...except the
> blue
> ones :D
>
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:22 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
>
> My students learned the hard way during their first year that painting a
> rocket blue, grey, and white (Ingraham's School Colors) is a bad idea...no
> matter whether the sky was clear, cloudy, or stormy, they could never see
> the d@#& thing.  They have also learned over time that intricate patterns
> tend to blur at high speeds and when far away.
>
> They have learned to look for paint colors not commonly found in nature at
> the places they will be launching their rockets.  (One of my female
> students
> constantly taunts the boys by telling them "Real men fly pink rockets")
>
> The best paint jobs for visibility have large blocks of contrasting color.
> Think along the lines of one half fluorescent orange and the other half
> black or the like.
>
> Of course...you could always stick a Walston, Beeline, or GPS-based
> tracking
> device in the thing and not worry about what color it is...but that's
> another matter.  :-)
>
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St.
> Seattle, WA  98133
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Aaron Evans
> Sent: Thu 9/17/2009 4:21 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
>
>
>
> Dan Thank you for the suggestions, I also experience that kids & food
> issue
> you mentioned.
> I'll need to put some thought into that. I know I'll need to invest in
> some
> motor casings.
> As far as colors go, What is better for tracking, bright colors or high
> contrast colors?
> Are there colors that work better than others? colors to avoid? (other
> than
> light blue)
>
> Much appreciated
> - Aaron
>
> P.S.
> Note to self - Do not put rocket in oven
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Dan Carlson
> <dcarlsons at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi Aaron,
>>
>> I recommend Binder Design Kits.  I have 4 Binder kits in my arsenal.  A
>> Spike, Dragonfly, Thug and Excel Plus.  Still working on the Excel.  The
>> other three I built on my dining room table with each of my three kids.
>> After building two 2-1/2 inch diameter kits I built a 4 inch and it was
>> easier for my kids and for me to work on.  It was also the one I
>> certified
>> for L1.  With the 4 inch kit I can actually get my paws down into the
>> tube
>> and I found it was easier to epoxy the tight space around the motor
>> mount.
>>
>> A few things for you to consider:
>>
>> Launch cost.  Ask around a bit about motors.  Figure out what's driving
>> your need to fly (ex:  bigger, more power, higher...or just like to
>> fly...
>> or just like the modeling aspect... etc).  For me, I can't hardly bring
>> myself to spend $25 per launch so I stick with the less expensive 29mm
>> versions.  After you buy the hardware, the 29mm motors will run between
> $12
>> - $20.  Some folks are deeper in the pocket, have other alternatives, or
>> don't have kids still at home that need food.
>>
>> I painted my first rocket light blue.   Dumb, dumb, dumb!  It also had a
>> gold sage colored parachute.  Lose it in the sky, then lose it in the
>> sage.... I've spent many hours searching for this crazy thing.  I've at
>> least since changed the chute to bright red.
>>
>> The paint kits I now use are Duplicolor Mirage Kits.  The paint changes
>> color depending on the angle of the sunlight.  They are a 3-in-one kit,
> and
>> run around $25.  I let the kids pick out the colors.  Paint looks
>> awesome
>> in the sunlight.  I get my paint from the local auto store.  Found this
>> link as well.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/DC-mirage.aspx
>>
>> For rail guides I use the Delrin (sp?) rail buttons with nylon.  I think
>> most Binder kits come with these now.  I've never really liked the
>> button
>> attached directly to the body tube, so I cut a couple popsicle sticks,
>> round the edges and epoxy them on.  Then I pre-drill the popscicle stick
>> and screw the button on.  This way the button stands-off from the body
>> tube.
>>
>> For motor retention I do like the Binder motor retainers.  There are a
>> number of less expensive home made options for you in this area.
>> Depends
>> on what you are after for looks, vs versatility, vs cost.
>>
>> Lastly, and I think most importantly, is that Mike Fisher of Binder is
>> an
>> excellent resource and his customer service has been excellent any time
>> I
>> have had a question.
>>
>> Best to you!
>> -Dan
>>
>> Oh, one other thing I learned the hard way.... If you screw up the epoxy
>> mixture and it turns to sticky goo, don't follow the advice of some
>> online
>> postings that say to take the rocket and heat it up in the oven......
> Does
>> not work!!  Cheers!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
>> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Date: 9/16/2009 10:47:27 AM
>>  > Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>> >
>> > I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club
>> meeting
>> for
>> > Washington Aerospace.
>> >
>> > I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how
>> welcomed I
>> > was to the meeting.
>> >
>> > And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW
>> community.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25
>> years.
>> But
>> > a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>> >
>> > I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some
> pretty
>> > basic questions.
>> >
>> > And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these
>> questions
>> > have already come up many times before.
>> >
>> > But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket
>> that
> I
>> > can use for a level 1 certification.
>> >
>> > At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not
>> just
>> > looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>> >
>> > I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
>> as-is.
>> >
>> > So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
>> needs
>> > to be modified.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs
> in
>> > favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>> >
>> > I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
>> really
>> > like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews
>> about
>> it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter.
>> I'm
>> > hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
>> > questions I currently don't know to ask.
>> >
>> > As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a
> chance
>> to
>> > meet more of you soon.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > - Aaron
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From appusher at q.com  Thu Sep 17 20:50:34 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:50:34 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Washington Aerospace September launch
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0909171434j71078189rdaa3e16bf7ef8cfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e068dfbd0909171434j71078189rdaa3e16bf7ef8cfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W1632B41162CEE4BCE0887DCE00@phx.gbl>


HI Fliers,

 

We will arriving late Friday night (guestimate 9 - 10pm).  Orders are pre-loaded ready for pickup right after coffee and baked gifts Saturday morning.  

We will have the portable Rocket Ranch Fire Pit glowing in the evenings.  I will be bringing some small rockettrees to keep us warm till the last story is told.

Sometimes the coals don't wait for the last story and need encouragement.  Feel free to bring whatever scrap wood you can contribute.  The Pit can take up to a 4 - 6" stick of wood.

Coffee, hot chocolate, adult berverage.......bring along whatever you like.   Oh.....bring a chair or two.

 

Bill at PSP









 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 


Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:34:35 -0700
From: carl at mousetrap.com
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org
Subject: [WAC-Members] Washington Aerospace September launch

A NOTAM has been issued, the appropriate authorities have been notified, and the weather forecast is looking reasonable. That means it's time to fly some rockets in Mansfield!


The Washington Aerospace September launch will be held this weekend, the 19th and 20th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield, WA. We will be launching from an area near the intersection of O Road NE and 13 Road NE, about a mile south of SR-172 (http://maps.google.com/?q=47.80053,-119.427738+(Snell+Ranch)&z=15). I plan to be on-site by early Friday afternoon, so drive to the intersection and then look for a green minivan.


This launch is open to all flyers, but proof of certification will be required for all high-power flights. Washington Aerospace members fly for free. Non-members will need to pay a $10/family range fee for the weekend. Everybody, including spectators, must have a signed liability waiver on file for this calendar year. If you need a waiver, please use our online form at http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php. Alternatively, I will have blank waivers available at the launch.


The range will be composed of 3 high power pads with rails, 2 mid power pads with rails, 1 mid power pad with a 1/4" rod, and 4 low power pads with 1/8" and 3/16" rods. Puget Sound Propulsion will be providing hybrid GSE, so if you want to pass some gas, talk to them and you should be covered. Robert Simpson-Clark will have his away cell controller on hand, so if you want to fly something larger than a K, he'll be able to provide the minimum personnel distance required. If you need anything else, you will need to bring it yourself.


We will not have the club's PA system or FM transmitter, so launch announcements will be done over FRS. If you have FRS radios, please bring them.


The fire danger in Douglas County is currently listed as moderate (it was high this morning). This has prompted me to ban sparky motors at this launch. If you have any sparky motors, please either leave them at home or come to the launch with your very own, fully loaded fire truck.


Also due to the fire danger, we'll be taking some extra precautions to avoid any big problems. Please bring a rake and/or shovel if you have them. These are great tools to clear potential fuel around the pads and to fight any fires that may crop up. I will have several water-based fire extinguishers with me, but the rakes and shovels will be a welcome addition to our set of fire control tools.


Despite the fire danger, the Douglas County fire marshal has confirmed that campfires in approved fire pits *are* allowed. Feel free to bring and use them, but please be cautious. Rather than bringing your own, however, you could just bring a chair and join us around the fire that will inevitably be burning at the Puget Sound Propulsion camp.


I will be looking for LCO and RSO volunteers. If you are a relatively new flyer, please consider doing a shift as LCO or as RSO with another, more experienced flyer. Both positions are a lot of fun and this will be a great launch to get your feet wet.


I will have NAR membership and certification forms with me as well as NAR level 2 tests. I will also be available to witness certification flights. If you haven't already done so, please let me know if you're planning a certification attempt this weekend so that I know what to expect. I am currently aware of certification flights for Andy Barwick, Robert Geer, Cameron Tinder, William Carpenter, and at least one student from Ingraham High School.


Hopefully you noticed that most of our high and mid power pads will be sporting rails exclusively. If you still have rockets without rail guides, you may be waiting for the single pad with a rod. Installing rail buttons is straight forward and could easily be done at the launch. Keep in mind, however, that the club prohibits the use of metal rail guides on our rails due to the wear it puts on them. Please use the Delrin buttons from Binder Design or http://www.railbuttons.com/ or something similar to the urethane rail lugs available from Public Missiles. If you need them, I believe Puget Sound Propulsion will have them available on-site.


The Sunflower Cafe, in downtown Mansfield, has offered to take orders over the phone and have your food ready to pickup at any time. Please consider taking them up on this offer and supporting the town that has supported us. The Cafe's number is 509-683-1068. They may think that we are flying from the Sportsmen's Club, so if they offer to deliver your food, please make sure they understand what they are committing to and consider offering to pick it up yourself.


If you need anything or have any questions you can call my cell phone at 425-785-3751. My cell coverage at the site is horrible, however, so I may not answer starting around noon on Friday. If you can't reach me, you can call Mark Lyons (who has reasonable coverage at the site) at 509-679-2707.


Hope to see you there!


 - Carl
























From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Thu Sep 17 20:59:03 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <3bc592c70909171621lc76bbd1mfebce165b4613b49@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B300297@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <37e57059d2d06eefed4a4d51c565627e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Peter is right.  Hot pink is good.  So is the weird kind of pink/fuchsia
that is often found in the plastic tape surveyors use.  (Uh, there's
probably a reason they use it!  Heh heh.)

The old guys at RRI way back in the 1980's used black boosters with red
payload sections.  Swore that worked the best against a sky background. 
But we also need that visibility on the ground.  I have a couple of white
rockets I still intend to paint like the Fruit Loops Toucan.  If it hurts
my eyeballs to look at it, it'll probably be visible wherever it is!

Dayglow orange is pretty good too.  I know that from experience.
+McG+



> My students learned the hard way during their first year that painting a
> rocket blue, grey, and white (Ingraham's School Colors) is a bad idea...no
> matter whether the sky was clear, cloudy, or stormy, they could never see
> the d@#& thing.  They have also learned over time that intricate patterns
> tend to blur at high speeds and when far away.
>
> They have learned to look for paint colors not commonly found in nature at
> the places they will be launching their rockets.  (One of my female
> students constantly taunts the boys by telling them "Real men fly pink
> rockets")
>
> The best paint jobs for visibility have large blocks of contrasting color.
>  Think along the lines of one half fluorescent orange and the other half
> black or the like.
>
> Of course...you could always stick a Walston, Beeline, or GPS-based
> tracking device in the thing and not worry about what color it is...but
> that's another matter.  :-)
>
> Peter Schurke
> Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> 1819 N 135th St.
> Seattle, WA  98133
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Aaron Evans
> Sent: Thu 9/17/2009 4:21 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
>
>
>
> Dan Thank you for the suggestions, I also experience that kids & food
> issue
> you mentioned.
> I'll need to put some thought into that. I know I'll need to invest in
> some
> motor casings.
> As far as colors go, What is better for tracking, bright colors or high
> contrast colors?
> Are there colors that work better than others? colors to avoid? (other
> than
> light blue)
>
> Much appreciated
> - Aaron
>
> P.S.
> Note to self - Do not put rocket in oven
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Dan Carlson
> <dcarlsons at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi Aaron,
>>
>> I recommend Binder Design Kits.  I have 4 Binder kits in my arsenal.  A
>> Spike, Dragonfly, Thug and Excel Plus.  Still working on the Excel.  The
>> other three I built on my dining room table with each of my three kids.
>> After building two 2-1/2 inch diameter kits I built a 4 inch and it was
>> easier for my kids and for me to work on.  It was also the one I
>> certified
>> for L1.  With the 4 inch kit I can actually get my paws down into the
>> tube
>> and I found it was easier to epoxy the tight space around the motor
>> mount.
>>
>> A few things for you to consider:
>>
>> Launch cost.  Ask around a bit about motors.  Figure out what's driving
>> your need to fly (ex:  bigger, more power, higher...or just like to
>> fly...
>> or just like the modeling aspect... etc).  For me, I can't hardly bring
>> myself to spend $25 per launch so I stick with the less expensive 29mm
>> versions.  After you buy the hardware, the 29mm motors will run between
>> $12
>> - $20.  Some folks are deeper in the pocket, have other alternatives, or
>> don't have kids still at home that need food.
>>
>> I painted my first rocket light blue.   Dumb, dumb, dumb!  It also had a
>> gold sage colored parachute.  Lose it in the sky, then lose it in the
>> sage.... I've spent many hours searching for this crazy thing.  I've at
>> least since changed the chute to bright red.
>>
>> The paint kits I now use are Duplicolor Mirage Kits.  The paint changes
>> color depending on the angle of the sunlight.  They are a 3-in-one kit,
>> and
>> run around $25.  I let the kids pick out the colors.  Paint looks
>> awesome
>> in the sunlight.  I get my paint from the local auto store.  Found this
>> link as well.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraypaintdepot/DC-mirage.aspx
>>
>> For rail guides I use the Delrin (sp?) rail buttons with nylon.  I think
>> most Binder kits come with these now.  I've never really liked the
>> button
>> attached directly to the body tube, so I cut a couple popsicle sticks,
>> round the edges and epoxy them on.  Then I pre-drill the popscicle stick
>> and screw the button on.  This way the button stands-off from the body
>> tube.
>>
>> For motor retention I do like the Binder motor retainers.  There are a
>> number of less expensive home made options for you in this area.
>> Depends
>> on what you are after for looks, vs versatility, vs cost.
>>
>> Lastly, and I think most importantly, is that Mike Fisher of Binder is
>> an
>> excellent resource and his customer service has been excellent any time
>> I
>> have had a question.
>>
>> Best to you!
>> -Dan
>>
>> Oh, one other thing I learned the hard way.... If you screw up the epoxy
>> mixture and it turns to sticky goo, don't follow the advice of some
>> online
>> postings that say to take the rocket and heat it up in the oven......
>> Does
>> not work!!  Cheers!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: Aaron Evans <aaron.l.evans at gmail.com>
>> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Date: 9/16/2009 10:47:27 AM
>>  > Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
>> >
>> > I had to opportunity to meet some of you at last Saturday's club
>> meeting
>> for
>> > Washington Aerospace.
>> >
>> > I wanted to comment on how impressed I was with everybody and how
>> welcomed I
>> > was to the meeting.
>> >
>> > And I wanted to Introduce myself to the rest of the RocketsNW
>> community.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > As I understand it, I'm a B.A.R. returning to the hobby after 25
>> years.
>> But
>> > a lot has changed and there is a lot I need to learn.
>> >
>> > I'll apologize in advance, because undoubtedly I'll be asking some
>> pretty
>> > basic questions.
>> >
>> > And also because I'm new on the mailing list and perhaps these
>> questions
>> > have already come up many times before.
>> >
>> > But I appreciate any feedback or advice anyone is willing to offer.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > With that in mind, here is my first request to the group.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm in the process of selecting a kit for my 1st High Power Rocket
>> that I
>> > can use for a level 1 certification.
>> >
>> > At this point, I want to follow the K.I.S.S. principle, but I'm not
>> just
>> > looking for an easy to slap together kit.
>> >
>> > I've picked up that, it seems, few people would actually build a kit
>> as-is.
>> >
>> > So I'm looking for advice on what to look for, what to avoid, and what
>> needs
>> > to be modified.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I've picked up a few suggestions already about tossing the launch lugs
>> in
>> > favor of using rail  guides, and using U bolts instead of eye bolts.
>> >
>> > I've been looking at some kits from Public Missiles Ltd. They seem to
>> really
>> > like their Piston Deployment System. But I've heard mixed reviews
>> about
>> it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I realize I'm casting a pretty wide net in terms of subject matter.
>> I'm
>> > hoping to use this to learn more about the subjects and uncover the
>> > questions I currently don't know to ask.
>> >
>> > As well as a jumping off point for the other questions I have.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your patience as I get up to speed, and I hope to get a
>> chance
>> to
>> > meet more of you soon.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > - Aaron
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From sutchek at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 17 20:52:40 2009
From: sutchek at sbcglobal.net (The Sutchek's)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:52:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging
In-Reply-To: <4fd0c131a99a3e3cdb4821947ed74d36.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <223045.68014.qm@web82004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

So , what's an FSO , 
?
and ,,? also ?I have had? NO , read that as NO problem staging or clustering high power motors from the start of my high power career ,? ten year's ago....? I am level three now and was when I started high power !
My second high power rocket was a nine motor cluster with a central 54 , four central 29's and four outer 28's , it's launch 4 times without any misfires. The saying is .. .. The sky's the limit,,, and only your pocket book will limit you ! ! 
?
Christopher,
keeping an open mind? and planing each of your rocket's event's will take you everywhere ! ! 
?
GO FOR IT? ! !?? aim for the sky and try not to miss...
?
-Paul
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:


From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 8:38 PM


Christopher,
Clustering composite motors isn't like clustering Estes motors.? Ignition
reliability and timing is a real problem.

My feeling personally is that you shouldn't even think about clustering
composite motors until you have a long track record of at least 90%
first-try launches of single composite motors.

As an FSO I give all composite clusters and their builders extra scrutiny.
(Usually, if I can, I hand off the job to someone with more experience in
that specific area for the sake of safety.) Anyone on the list who has
launched high power clusters and airstarts has plenty of stories to tell
of things not going according to plan.

The irony is, clustering the smaller composite motors is more difficult
than clustering the bigger ones due to igniter issues.
+McG+


> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is
> mainly
> because my true interest is in clusters and stages.? I want to start
> making
> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets.? I hope that answers
> that.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Christopher,
>>
>> What's the rush?? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days
>> ago.
>> I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another
>> email, I
>> think you mentioned something about L3.
>>
>> Slow down, enjoy the journey.? There is lots to learn at each level of
>> rocketry.? Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that
>> you
>> have a lot to learn about rocketry.? I'm not talking down to you, just
>> trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along
>> the
>> way.
>>
>> I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
>> you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
>> Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level
>> 3.
>> The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3,
>> but
>> there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you
>> when
>> the time for L2 comes around.
>>
>> I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
>> prior to L3.? Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
>> experience, then grab that level 2.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
>> Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>>
>> I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt
>> through
>> a
>> doubled up centering ring for each hook.? I will also have a? metal ring
>> big
>> enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and
>> slides
>> down the bolts.? This way the aft closure is butted against the metal
>> ring
>> and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a
>> lock
>> washer and a nut.? This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using
>> an
>> extension.? Will this still be an Issue?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Yes!? It will cause problems.? You typically want the nozzle to be at
>> the
>> > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone.? Unless
>> you
>> > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's
>> motor
>> > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end
>> of
>> > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch.? How are you
>> planning
>> to
>> > retain your motor?? The commerical motor retention devices have their
>> own
>> > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
>> > bottom
>> > of the rocket.? This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction
>> starts -
>> > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
>> >
>> > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors -
>> the
>> > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to
>> the
>> > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up
>> against a
>> > bulkhead for that.? The last thing you want is the motor and motor
>> tube
>> > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket.? That guarantees
>> you
>> > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
>> > attending the launch.
>> >
>> > Jeff Moore
>> > BORG
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone.? It has a 3.125" throat.? I
>> want
>> > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm.? This will
>> have
>> > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone.? Will this
>> cause
>> any
>> > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>> >
>> > See picture for reference at:
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 

From t.j.doll at att.net  Thu Sep 17 21:03:45 2009
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 04:03:45 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction - Tracking colors
Message-ID: <091820090403.11005.4AB306A10005A4BA00002AFD22243323629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

>>Another thing to remember when flying at the Brothers Oregon site. If you're
>>a kid flying, the laundry drapes nicely on top of the sage, visible to all. 
>>If you're an adult, the little critters drag your laundry down and hide it 
>>under the sage brush. That said, the more fluorescent the better in my 
>>opinion.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Robert

Tracking in flight is different than finding it on the ground.  In flight, any bright color is good - red, orange, yellow (I read somewhere that the bright yellow is universally the most visible color - the reason why many fire trucks are now yellow instead of fire engine red).  A darker color like red is better against an white overcast, while a light color like yellow is better against a deep blue sky.  So I like orange :-).  Problem is most of my rockets are scale, so rocket color isn't really much of an option.

On the ground, with rare exception the parachute is what you see first, so the parachute color is more important.  Again, the bright colors are best, but now you have to worry about things like blooming flowers and other vegetation of the same color.  Of course, green parachutes are horrible - I was given a big one and refused to use it for quite a while.  Then on my big Saturn V, I figured it was too big to loose and I used the green chute - and very nearly lost it....

Tim

From jhadv at pacifier.com  Thu Sep 17 21:10:58 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:10:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] burning tailcones
In-Reply-To: <mailman.296.1253223292.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.296.1253223292.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <14366.76.115.45.22.1253247058.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com>

"What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days ago.
I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another email,
I think you mentioned something about L3. Slow down, enjoy the journey."

Good advice.  The only thing I would add is, or be forcibly slowed down by
the dark side of the sport.  As soon as you try to put a big motor in a
small rocket, if ever, everything has to be just so.  Do anything wrong
like put the nozzle any material distance (like .200") into a tail cone
made of flammable material and the results are likely to be, shall we say,
interesting.


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 21:10:10 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:10:10 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging
References: <223045.68014.qm@web82004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0DAC62786B82406485FE8A60562C6F5B@LaptopKrausert>

Hi Paul,
Clusters can work and if done right work.

After 10 years, and I mean no disrespect, you've not heard of an FSO? I know 
you have, and maybe under a different name outsite OROC. We require a Flight 
Safety Officer to review and approve each flight. Some may call it an RSO, 
but we at OROC keep them separate. We want the RSO, Range Safty Officer 
hovering and watching the whole event. The FSO helps review, inspect and 
approve each rocket flight.

Too many acronyms Paul. I know we may use different terms.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Sutchek's" <sutchek at sbcglobal.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:52 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging


So , what's an FSO ,

and ,, also I have had NO , read that as NO problem staging or clustering 
high power motors from the start of my high power career , ten year's 
ago.... I am level three now and was when I started high power !
My second high power rocket was a nine motor cluster with a central 54 , 
four central 29's and four outer 28's , it's launch 4 times without any 
misfires. The saying is .. .. The sky's the limit,,, and only your pocket 
book will limit you ! !

Christopher,
keeping an open mind and planing each of your rocket's event's will take you 
everywhere ! !

GO FOR IT ! ! aim for the sky and try not to miss...

-Paul
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com 
<kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:


From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 8:38 PM


Christopher,
Clustering composite motors isn't like clustering Estes motors. Ignition
reliability and timing is a real problem.

My feeling personally is that you shouldn't even think about clustering
composite motors until you have a long track record of at least 90%
first-try launches of single composite motors.

As an FSO I give all composite clusters and their builders extra scrutiny.
(Usually, if I can, I hand off the job to someone with more experience in
that specific area for the sake of safety.) Anyone on the list who has
launched high power clusters and airstarts has plenty of stories to tell
of things not going according to plan.

The irony is, clustering the smaller composite motors is more difficult
than clustering the bigger ones due to igniter issues.
+McG+


> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is
> mainly
> because my true interest is in clusters and stages. I want to start
> making
> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets. I hope that answers
> that.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Christopher,
>>
>> What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days
>> ago.
>> I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another
>> email, I
>> think you mentioned something about L3.
>>
>> Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of
>> rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that
>> you
>> have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just
>> trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along
>> the
>> way.
>>
>> I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
>> you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
>> Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level
>> 3.
>> The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3,
>> but
>> there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you
>> when
>> the time for L2 comes around.
>>
>> I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
>> prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
>> experience, then grab that level 2.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
>> Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>>
>> I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt
>> through
>> a
>> doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring
>> big
>> enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and
>> slides
>> down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal
>> ring
>> and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a
>> lock
>> washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using
>> an
>> extension. Will this still be an Issue?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at
>> the
>> > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless
>> you
>> > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's
>> motor
>> > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end
>> of
>> > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you
>> planning
>> to
>> > retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their
>> own
>> > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
>> > bottom
>> > of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction
>> starts -
>> > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
>> >
>> > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors -
>> the
>> > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to
>> the
>> > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up
>> against a
>> > bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor
>> tube
>> > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees
>> you
>> > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
>> > attending the launch.
>> >
>> > Jeff Moore
>> > BORG
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I
>> want
>> > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will
>> have
>> > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this
>> cause
>> any
>> > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>> >
>> > See picture for reference at:
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From carl at mousetrap.com  Thu Sep 17 21:16:00 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:16:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace September launch
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0909171434j71078189rdaa3e16bf7ef8cfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e068dfbd0909171434j71078189rdaa3e16bf7ef8cfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909172116w134edb51h85a48309d0246760@mail.gmail.com>

One slight correction to this is that WAC members *and their families* fly
for free. Sorry if this omission caused any confusion.
 - Carl

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Carl Hamilton <carl at mousetrap.com> wrote:

> A NOTAM has been issued, the appropriate authorities have been notified,
> and the weather forecast is looking reasonable. That means it's time to fly
> some rockets in Mansfield!
> The Washington Aerospace September launch will be held this weekend, the
> 19th and 20th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield, WA. We will
> be launching from an area near the intersection of O Road NE and 13 Road NE,
> about a mile south of SR-172 (
> http://maps.google.com/?q=47.80053,-119.427738+(Snell+Ranch)&z=15). I plan
> to be on-site by early Friday afternoon, so drive to the intersection and
> then look for a green minivan.
>
> This launch is open to all flyers, but proof of certification will be
> required for all high-power flights. Washington Aerospace members fly for
> free. Non-members will need to pay a $10/family range fee for the weekend.
> Everybody, including spectators, must have a signed liability waiver on file
> for this calendar year. If you need a waiver, please use our online form at
> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php. Alternatively, I will
> have blank waivers available at the launch.
>
> The range will be composed of 3 high power pads with rails, 2 mid power
> pads with rails, 1 mid power pad with a 1/4" rod, and 4 low power pads with
> 1/8" and 3/16" rods. Puget Sound Propulsion will be providing hybrid GSE, so
> if you want to pass some gas, talk to them and you should be covered. Robert
> Simpson-Clark will have his away cell controller on hand, so if you want to
> fly something larger than a K, he'll be able to provide the minimum
> personnel distance required. If you need anything else, you will need to
> bring it yourself.
>
> We will not have the club's PA system or FM transmitter, so launch
> announcements will be done over FRS. If you have FRS radios, please bring
> them.
>
> The fire danger in Douglas County is currently listed as moderate (it was
> high this morning). This has prompted me to ban sparky motors at this
> launch. If you have any sparky motors, please either leave them at home or
> come to the launch with your very own, fully loaded fire truck.
>
> Also due to the fire danger, we'll be taking some extra precautions to
> avoid any big problems. Please bring a rake and/or shovel if you have them.
> These are great tools to clear potential fuel around the pads and to fight
> any fires that may crop up. I will have several water-based fire
> extinguishers with me, but the rakes and shovels will be a welcome addition
> to our set of fire control tools.
>
> Despite the fire danger, the Douglas County fire marshal has confirmed that
> campfires in approved fire pits *are* allowed. Feel free to bring and use
> them, but please be cautious. Rather than bringing your own, however, you
> could just bring a chair and join us around the fire that will inevitably be
> burning at the Puget Sound Propulsion camp.
>
> I will be looking for LCO and RSO volunteers. If you are a relatively new
> flyer, please consider doing a shift as LCO or as RSO with another, more
> experienced flyer. Both positions are a lot of fun and this will be a great
> launch to get your feet wet.
>
> I will have NAR membership and certification forms with me as well as NAR
> level 2 tests. I will also be available to witness certification flights. If
> you haven't already done so, please let me know if you're planning a
> certification attempt this weekend so that I know what to expect. I am
> currently aware of certification flights for Andy Barwick, Robert Geer,
> Cameron Tinder, William Carpenter, and at least one student from Ingraham
> High School.
>
> Hopefully you noticed that most of our high and mid power pads will be
> sporting rails exclusively. If you still have rockets without rail guides,
> you may be waiting for the single pad with a rod. Installing rail buttons is
> straight forward and could easily be done at the launch. Keep in mind,
> however, that the club prohibits the use of metal rail guides on our rails
> due to the wear it puts on them. Please use the Delrin buttons from Binder
> Design or http://www.railbuttons.com/ or something similar to the urethane
> rail lugs available from Public Missiles. If you need them, I believe Puget
> Sound Propulsion will have them available on-site.
>
> The Sunflower Cafe, in downtown Mansfield, has offered to take orders over
> the phone and have your food ready to pickup at any time. Please consider
> taking them up on this offer and supporting the town that has supported us.
> The Cafe's number is 509-683-1068. They may think that we are flying from
> the Sportsmen's Club, so if they offer to deliver your food, please make
> sure they understand what they are committing to and consider offering to
> pick it up yourself.
>
> If you need anything or have any questions you can call my cell phone at
> 425-785-3751. My cell coverage at the site is horrible, however, so I may
> not answer starting around noon on Friday. If you can't reach me, you can
> call Mark Lyons (who has reasonable coverage at the site) at 509-679-2707.
>
> Hope to see you there!
>
>  - Carl
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From sutchek at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 17 21:25:02 2009
From: sutchek at sbcglobal.net (The Sutchek's)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:25:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging
In-Reply-To: <0DAC62786B82406485FE8A60562C6F5B@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <291878.8594.qm@web82006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


After a min.?? I did , figure out the different wordings...with AeroPac, I have not heard of a FSO......I should have thought just a little longer.... I just don't like people saying " Dont DO THAT? "
?

--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging
To: "The Sutchek's" <sutchek at sbcglobal.net>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 9:10 PM


Hi Paul,
Clusters can work and if done right work.

After 10 years, and I mean no disrespect, you've not heard of an FSO? I know 
you have, and maybe under a different name outsite OROC. We require a Flight 
Safety Officer to review and approve each flight. Some may call it an RSO, 
but we at OROC keep them separate. We want the RSO, Range Safty Officer 
hovering and watching the whole event. The FSO helps review, inspect and 
approve each rocket flight.

Too many acronyms Paul. I know we may use different terms.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Sutchek's" <sutchek at sbcglobal.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:52 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging


So , what's an FSO ,

and ,, also I have had NO , read that as NO problem staging or clustering 
high power motors from the start of my high power career , ten year's 
ago.... I am level three now and was when I started high power !
My second high power rocket was a nine motor cluster with a central 54 , 
four central 29's and four outer 28's , it's launch 4 times without any 
misfires. The saying is .. .. The sky's the limit,,, and only your pocket 
book will limit you ! !

Christopher,
keeping an open mind and planing each of your rocket's event's will take you 
everywhere ! !

GO FOR IT ! ! aim for the sky and try not to miss...

-Paul
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com 
<kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:


From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 8:38 PM


Christopher,
Clustering composite motors isn't like clustering Estes motors. Ignition
reliability and timing is a real problem.

My feeling personally is that you shouldn't even think about clustering
composite motors until you have a long track record of at least 90%
first-try launches of single composite motors.

As an FSO I give all composite clusters and their builders extra scrutiny.
(Usually, if I can, I hand off the job to someone with more experience in
that specific area for the sake of safety.) Anyone on the list who has
launched high power clusters and airstarts has plenty of stories to tell
of things not going according to plan.

The irony is, clustering the smaller composite motors is more difficult
than clustering the bigger ones due to igniter issues.
+McG+


> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is
> mainly
> because my true interest is in clusters and stages. I want to start
> making
> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets. I hope that answers
> that.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Christopher,
>>
>> What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days
>> ago.
>> I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another
>> email, I
>> think you mentioned something about L3.
>>
>> Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of
>> rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that
>> you
>> have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just
>> trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along
>> the
>> way.
>>
>> I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
>> you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
>> Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level
>> 3.
>> The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3,
>> but
>> there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you
>> when
>> the time for L2 comes around.
>>
>> I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
>> prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
>> experience, then grab that level 2.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
>> Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>>
>> I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt
>> through
>> a
>> doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring
>> big
>> enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and
>> slides
>> down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal
>> ring
>> and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a
>> lock
>> washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using
>> an
>> extension. Will this still be an Issue?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at
>> the
>> > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless
>> you
>> > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's
>> motor
>> > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end
>> of
>> > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you
>> planning
>> to
>> > retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their
>> own
>> > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
>> > bottom
>> > of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction
>> starts -
>> > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
>> >
>> > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors -
>> the
>> > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to
>> the
>> > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up
>> against a
>> > bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor
>> tube
>> > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees
>> you
>> > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
>> > attending the launch.
>> >
>> > Jeff Moore
>> > BORG
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I
>> want
>> > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will
>> have
>> > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this
>> cause
>> any
>> > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>> >
>> > See picture for reference at:
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 21:38:33 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:38:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging
References: <291878.8594.qm@web82006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5C0C6A9A5D97484DB5E8E6DCAF879927@LaptopKrausert>

Paul,
I'm smiling. No one, at least I don't think anyone said, "don't."

As a level 3 you respect the amount of steps that go into a flight. All I 
think the list has been advising is to take the time to learn as they go. 
That's all. Your example... 29mm motors light easier. Do we all want Chris 
or anyone else to not explore thier dreams? No way. I think the suggestions 
are only to take the steps. No more.

People in the hobby here in the Northwest have been fantastic to me. And to 
others.

I'm right there with you if someone says, "stop!! Don't!!" Unless it's the 
FSO. I however have not read that today. Just advise.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Sutchek's" <sutchek at sbcglobal.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging



After a min. I did , figure out the different wordings...with AeroPac, I 
have not heard of a FSO......I should have thought just a little longer.... 
I just don't like people saying " Dont DO THAT "


--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging
To: "The Sutchek's" <sutchek at sbcglobal.net>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 9:10 PM


Hi Paul,
Clusters can work and if done right work.

After 10 years, and I mean no disrespect, you've not heard of an FSO? I know
you have, and maybe under a different name outsite OROC. We require a Flight
Safety Officer to review and approve each flight. Some may call it an RSO,
but we at OROC keep them separate. We want the RSO, Range Safty Officer
hovering and watching the whole event. The FSO helps review, inspect and
approve each rocket flight.

Too many acronyms Paul. I know we may use different terms.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Sutchek's" <sutchek at sbcglobal.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:52 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging


So , what's an FSO ,

and ,, also I have had NO , read that as NO problem staging or clustering
high power motors from the start of my high power career , ten year's
ago.... I am level three now and was when I started high power !
My second high power rocket was a nine motor cluster with a central 54 ,
four central 29's and four outer 28's , it's launch 4 times without any
misfires. The saying is .. .. The sky's the limit,,, and only your pocket
book will limit you ! !

Christopher,
keeping an open mind and planing each of your rocket's event's will take you
everywhere ! !

GO FOR IT ! ! aim for the sky and try not to miss...

-Paul
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
<kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:


From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 8:38 PM


Christopher,
Clustering composite motors isn't like clustering Estes motors. Ignition
reliability and timing is a real problem.

My feeling personally is that you shouldn't even think about clustering
composite motors until you have a long track record of at least 90%
first-try launches of single composite motors.

As an FSO I give all composite clusters and their builders extra scrutiny.
(Usually, if I can, I hand off the job to someone with more experience in
that specific area for the sake of safety.) Anyone on the list who has
launched high power clusters and airstarts has plenty of stories to tell
of things not going according to plan.

The irony is, clustering the smaller composite motors is more difficult
than clustering the bigger ones due to igniter issues.
+McG+


> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is
> mainly
> because my true interest is in clusters and stages. I want to start
> making
> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets. I hope that answers
> that.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Christopher,
>>
>> What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days
>> ago.
>> I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another
>> email, I
>> think you mentioned something about L3.
>>
>> Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of
>> rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that
>> you
>> have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just
>> trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along
>> the
>> way.
>>
>> I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
>> you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
>> Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level
>> 3.
>> The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3,
>> but
>> there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you
>> when
>> the time for L2 comes around.
>>
>> I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
>> prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
>> experience, then grab that level 2.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
>> Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>>
>> I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt
>> through
>> a
>> doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring
>> big
>> enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and
>> slides
>> down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal
>> ring
>> and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a
>> lock
>> washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using
>> an
>> extension. Will this still be an Issue?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at
>> the
>> > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless
>> you
>> > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's
>> motor
>> > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end
>> of
>> > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you
>> planning
>> to
>> > retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their
>> own
>> > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
>> > bottom
>> > of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction
>> starts -
>> > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
>> >
>> > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors -
>> the
>> > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to
>> the
>> > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up
>> against a
>> > bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor
>> tube
>> > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees
>> you
>> > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
>> > attending the launch.
>> >
>> > Jeff Moore
>> > BORG
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I
>> want
>> > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will
>> have
>> > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this
>> cause
>> any
>> > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>> >
>> > See picture for reference at:
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
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http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

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From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 21:48:02 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:48:02 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
Message-ID: <c07.690af9bb.37e46b02@aol.com>

1/4" aircraft ply is plenty overkill for 38mm.  Save the 1/2" aircraft  ply 
for L3.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/17/2009 3:29:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes:

I have  changed the setup for a 38mm motor mount and 6 half inch aircraft
grade  plywood centering rings. 


From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 21:52:24 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W152463166BED6D9358E752EAE10@phx.gbl>
References: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<COL120-W152463166BED6D9358E752EAE10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <376361.74194.qm@web110209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I was L1 for like 3 years and started my two stage thing. Flew two stage for one flight every launch for 1 and a half years. All L1. You can do alot of stageing and clustering while L1. I meen come on. An Excel Plus with a booster is alot of fun. I600 to something else was fun. I just wish I would have done an I600 to an I600 just once. Now that would have been fun. :o)

Take your time and have fun. 

John H




________________________________
From: Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com>
To: Rockets NW list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:39:35 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?


I fail to see the logic in your reasoning to rush the L2 build/flight.? There is nothing that says you cannot cluster or stage at L1.? Any 2 H motors clustered or staged are only going to be an I which is allowed with the L1 cert.? You could even cluster more of the smaller H motors and still be within L1 territory.? With exactly 1 successful HPR flight under your belt, there is a lot to learn about construction before you jump off and start building and attempting to fly staged/clustered flights that require a L2 certification.



I've been flying HPR for 5 years now.? I was an L1 for over a year before I went for my L2.? I've been L2 ever since.? I just built my first rocket capable of multiple motors in a single flight.? There is a lot more to building complex motor mounts/rockets than what you will have learned from building one or 2 single motor rockets and having 1 or 2 flights under your belt.



Just my $0.02

> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:01:38 -0700
> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> To: raystoner99 at comcast.net
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
> 
> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is mainly
> because my true interest is in clusters and stages. I want to start making
> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets. I hope that answers
> that.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > Christopher,
> >
> > What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days ago.
> > I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another email, I
> > think you mentioned something about L3.
> >
> > Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of
> > rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that you
> > have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just
> > trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along the
> > way.
> >
> > I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
> > you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
> > Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level 3.
> > The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3, but
> > there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you when
> > the time for L2 comes around.
> >
> > I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
> > prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
> > experience, then grab that level 2.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> > To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
> >
> > I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt through
> > a
> > doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring
> > big
> > enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and slides
> > down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal ring
> > and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a lock
> > washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using an
> > extension. Will this still be an Issue?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at the
> > > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless
> > you
> > > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's motor
> > > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end of
> > > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you planning
> > to
> > > retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their own
> > > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
> > > bottom
> > > of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction starts -
> > > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
> > >
> > > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - the
> > > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to the
> > > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up against a
> > > bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube
> > > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees you
> > > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
> > > attending the launch.
> > >
> > > Jeff Moore
> > > BORG
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I
> > want
> > > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will have
> > > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this cause
> > any
> > > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
> > >
> > > See picture for reference at:
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 21:51:40 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:51:40 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
Message-ID: <d48.5c08060f.37e46bdc@aol.com>

I agree.  I have bad luck with APCP clusters.  The first flight  of the 
cluster Jackhammer prototype was a bit too realistic when it tried to  take out 
the hill behind the Brothers launch site.  I decided not to  unleash that 
on the public and went with a single mount.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/17/2009 8:39:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes:

My  feeling personally is that you shouldn't even think about  clustering
composite motors until you have a long track record of at least  90%
first-try launches of single composite  motors.



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 22:45:28 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:45:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
References: <735657227.2431041253220703459.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><87542619.2435191253221338488.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><COL120-W152463166BED6D9358E752EAE10@phx.gbl>
	<376361.74194.qm@web110209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <71D533BABDB944B5926931CB707B05DA@LaptopKrausert>

Should I do an I600 2 stage in John's honor? For John I'll call it the 
"Hornsby's Eye for an Eye" rocket. John I'll send build and flight details. 
You'll be missed until you all come back. Soon we hope. Eye for an Eye 
sounds like a good name.

Keep the faith. See you and the family soon.

Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Hornsby" <jhornsby3 at yahoo.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?


I was L1 for like 3 years and started my two stage thing. Flew two stage for 
one flight every launch for 1 and a half years. All L1. You can do alot of 
stageing and clustering while L1. I meen come on. An Excel Plus with a 
booster is alot of fun. I600 to something else was fun. I just wish I would 
have done an I600 to an I600 just once. Now that would have been fun. :o)

Take your time and have fun.

John H




________________________________
From: Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com>
To: Rockets NW list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:39:35 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?


I fail to see the logic in your reasoning to rush the L2 build/flight. There 
is nothing that says you cannot cluster or stage at L1. Any 2 H motors 
clustered or staged are only going to be an I which is allowed with the L1 
cert. You could even cluster more of the smaller H motors and still be 
within L1 territory. With exactly 1 successful HPR flight under your belt, 
there is a lot to learn about construction before you jump off and start 
building and attempting to fly staged/clustered flights that require a L2 
certification.



I've been flying HPR for 5 years now. I was an L1 for over a year before I 
went for my L2. I've been L2 ever since. I just built my first rocket 
capable of multiple motors in a single flight. There is a lot more to 
building complex motor mounts/rockets than what you will have learned from 
building one or 2 single motor rockets and having 1 or 2 flights under your 
belt.



Just my $0.02

> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:01:38 -0700
> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> To: raystoner99 at comcast.net
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>
> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is 
> mainly
> because my true interest is in clusters and stages. I want to start making
> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets. I hope that answers
> that.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Christopher,
> >
> > What's the rush? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days ago.
> > I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another 
> > email, I
> > think you mentioned something about L3.
> >
> > Slow down, enjoy the journey. There is lots to learn at each level of
> > rocketry. Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that you
> > have a lot to learn about rocketry. I'm not talking down to you, just
> > trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn along 
> > the
> > way.
> >
> > I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I believe
> > you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
> > Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to level 
> > 3.
> > The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3, 
> > but
> > there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you 
> > when
> > the time for L2 comes around.
> >
> > I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
> > prior to L3. Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
> > experience, then grab that level 2.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> > To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada 
> > Pacific
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
> >
> > I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt 
> > through
> > a
> > doubled up centering ring for each hook. I will also have a metal ring
> > big
> > enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and 
> > slides
> > down the bolts. This way the aft closure is butted against the metal 
> > ring
> > and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a 
> > lock
> > washer and a nut. This way it can be reached with a socket wrench using 
> > an
> > extension. Will this still be an Issue?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com> 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Yes! It will cause problems. You typically want the nozzle to be at 
> > > the
> > > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone. Unless
> > you
> > > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's 
> > > motor
> > > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the end 
> > > of
> > > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch. How are you 
> > > planning
> > to
> > > retain your motor? The commerical motor retention devices have their 
> > > own
> > > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
> > > bottom
> > > of the rocket. This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction 
> > > starts -
> > > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
> > >
> > > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors - 
> > > the
> > > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to 
> > > the
> > > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up 
> > > against a
> > > bulkhead for that. The last thing you want is the motor and motor tube
> > > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket. That guarantees 
> > > you
> > > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
> > > attending the launch.
> > >
> > > Jeff Moore
> > > BORG
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone. It has a 3.125" throat. I
> > want
> > > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm. This will 
> > > have
> > > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone. Will this cause
> > any
> > > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
> > >
> > > See picture for reference at:
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From patrick at urbancheese.com  Thu Sep 17 23:06:18 2009
From: patrick at urbancheese.com (patrick (urban cheese records))
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:06:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
References: <c07.690af9bb.37e46b02@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2E7FCFE1CE9D470AA609DC52A2ACB3BB@bleu>

My "workhorse" rocket is scratch-built, using BT70 (about 2.2" OD) Kraft 
cardboard tubes and paper-reinforced balsa wood for the centering rings, 
bulkhead and fins.  It is a zipperless design and has a 29mm MMT.  Back when 
I built it, I was experimenting with different materials, and found that 
laminating normal copier-grade paper to both sides of a balsa sheet with 
wood glue resulted in a very strong and light material.  For kicks, I used 
this reinforced balsa for the centering rings (3 of them), fins (which are 
TTW), and bulkhead (which has a U-bolt in it for the recovery harness). I've 
flown this rocket close to 20 times on everything from F21's through I200's. 
The only repair I've had to make on the booster was to repair a cracked fin 
due to a hard landing on a rock (or asphalt, I forget).  It is still in 
great flying shape (not that I've been able to fly much HPR in the last few 
years).  I'll admit that the first time I stuck something big in that rocket 
(H180) it was a sphincter-clencher, but I had flown it enough by then to 
know it was pretty strong.  It flew like a champ on the I200 for a rocket 
made of cardboard, paper and balsa wood.

My point is that you shouldn't (or don't need to, anyway) blindly 
overbuild -- instead, make sure you have appropriately strong materials, use 
good construction techniques and design principles. For me, it was valuable 
to take some time to see where the breaking points are with different 
designs and materials -- and take some risks along the way. Also, I'll echo 
the idea that you don't need to be L2 to do cool and interesting projects. 
The rocket I described above is capable of dual-deploy and also can carry a 
small video camera, and flies great on F and G motors.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
To: <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>; <robert.krausert at intel.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?


> 1/4" aircraft ply is plenty overkill for 38mm.  Save the 1/2" aircraft 
> ply
> for L3.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 9/17/2009 3:29:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes:
>
> I have  changed the setup for a 38mm motor mount and 6 half inch aircraft
> grade  plywood centering rings.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From carl at mousetrap.com  Fri Sep 18 06:55:52 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 06:55:52 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace September launch
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0909171434j71078189rdaa3e16bf7ef8cfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e068dfbd0909171434j71078189rdaa3e16bf7ef8cfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909180655l18ea4414nb3096eae28e3f2ac@mail.gmail.com>

The weather forecast for Saturday is showing a 40% chance of rain in the
morning and afternoon with Sunday being clear and dry. For those interested,
I will be willing to keep the range open longer than normal on Sunday (e.g.
5:00PM) to take advantage of the nice weather.
For those of you tired of reading my announcements, here is an executive
summary of the text below:

   - Rocket launch this weekend at the Snell Ranch
   - WAC members and their families fly for free
   - Non-members pay a $10/family range fee for the weekend
   - Bring FRS radios <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Radio_Service>
   - No sparky motors
   - Bring rakes and/or shovels for fire control
   - Approved fires pits are OK
   - Volunteer for LCO or RSO duty
   - Put rail guides on your mid and high power rockets
   - Order lunch and dinner from the Sunflower Cafe
   - You can reach me at 425-785-3751 or Mark Lyons at 509-679-2707

Hope to see you there!

 - Carl

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Carl Hamilton <carl at mousetrap.com> wrote:

> A NOTAM has been issued, the appropriate authorities have been notified,
> and the weather forecast is looking reasonable. That means it's time to fly
> some rockets in Mansfield!
> The Washington Aerospace September launch will be held this weekend, the
> 19th and 20th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield, WA. We will
> be launching from an area near the intersection of O Road NE and 13 Road NE,
> about a mile south of SR-172 (
> http://maps.google.com/?q=47.80053,-119.427738+(Snell+Ranch)&z=15). I plan
> to be on-site by early Friday afternoon, so drive to the intersection and
> then look for a green minivan.
>
> This launch is open to all flyers, but proof of certification will be
> required for all high-power flights. Washington Aerospace members fly for
> free. Non-members will need to pay a $10/family range fee for the weekend.
> Everybody, including spectators, must have a signed liability waiver on file
> for this calendar year. If you need a waiver, please use our online form at
> http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php. Alternatively, I will
> have blank waivers available at the launch.
>
> The range will be composed of 3 high power pads with rails, 2 mid power
> pads with rails, 1 mid power pad with a 1/4" rod, and 4 low power pads with
> 1/8" and 3/16" rods. Puget Sound Propulsion will be providing hybrid GSE, so
> if you want to pass some gas, talk to them and you should be covered. Robert
> Simpson-Clark will have his away cell controller on hand, so if you want to
> fly something larger than a K, he'll be able to provide the minimum
> personnel distance required. If you need anything else, you will need to
> bring it yourself.
>
> We will not have the club's PA system or FM transmitter, so launch
> announcements will be done over FRS. If you have FRS radios, please bring
> them.
>
> The fire danger in Douglas County is currently listed as moderate (it was
> high this morning). This has prompted me to ban sparky motors at this
> launch. If you have any sparky motors, please either leave them at home or
> come to the launch with your very own, fully loaded fire truck.
>
> Also due to the fire danger, we'll be taking some extra precautions to
> avoid any big problems. Please bring a rake and/or shovel if you have them.
> These are great tools to clear potential fuel around the pads and to fight
> any fires that may crop up. I will have several water-based fire
> extinguishers with me, but the rakes and shovels will be a welcome addition
> to our set of fire control tools.
>
> Despite the fire danger, the Douglas County fire marshal has confirmed that
> campfires in approved fire pits *are* allowed. Feel free to bring and use
> them, but please be cautious. Rather than bringing your own, however, you
> could just bring a chair and join us around the fire that will inevitably be
> burning at the Puget Sound Propulsion camp.
>
> I will be looking for LCO and RSO volunteers. If you are a relatively new
> flyer, please consider doing a shift as LCO or as RSO with another, more
> experienced flyer. Both positions are a lot of fun and this will be a great
> launch to get your feet wet.
>
> I will have NAR membership and certification forms with me as well as NAR
> level 2 tests. I will also be available to witness certification flights. If
> you haven't already done so, please let me know if you're planning a
> certification attempt this weekend so that I know what to expect. I am
> currently aware of certification flights for Andy Barwick, Robert Geer,
> Cameron Tinder, William Carpenter, and at least one student from Ingraham
> High School.
>
> Hopefully you noticed that most of our high and mid power pads will be
> sporting rails exclusively. If you still have rockets without rail guides,
> you may be waiting for the single pad with a rod. Installing rail buttons is
> straight forward and could easily be done at the launch. Keep in mind,
> however, that the club prohibits the use of metal rail guides on our rails
> due to the wear it puts on them. Please use the Delrin buttons from Binder
> Design or http://www.railbuttons.com/ or something similar to the urethane
> rail lugs available from Public Missiles. If you need them, I believe Puget
> Sound Propulsion will have them available on-site.
>
> The Sunflower Cafe, in downtown Mansfield, has offered to take orders over
> the phone and have your food ready to pickup at any time. Please consider
> taking them up on this offer and supporting the town that has supported us.
> The Cafe's number is 509-683-1068. They may think that we are flying from
> the Sportsmen's Club, so if they offer to deliver your food, please make
> sure they understand what they are committing to and consider offering to
> pick it up yourself.
>
> If you need anything or have any questions you can call my cell phone at
> 425-785-3751. My cell coverage at the site is horrible, however, so I may
> not answer starting around noon on Friday. If you can't reach me, you can
> call Mark Lyons (who has reasonable coverage at the site) at 509-679-2707.
>
> Hope to see you there!
>
>  - Carl
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 18:30:59 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:30:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Rocketober Rocket Launch Event October
	16th - 18th 2009
Message-ID: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert>

OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER -

As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Rocketober rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening October 16th through 18th. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us. 

Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the final major launch event of 2009 for OregonRocketry. We can easily expect to see 100+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. 

October 16th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Sorry NAR members, but Research Friday is only for TRA members. 

Saturday October 17th and Sunday October 18th are commercial motor days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. You do not need to be member to fly Saturday or Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!!

Yes. Saturday evening will include a night launch. Rockets flying in the dark. But if you want to fly, something needs to illuminate your rocket. Those glow sticks taped to rockets can work. The onsite FSO will need to make sure everything is safe. If you're not sure, show the FSO your idea before committing. They may have ideas. 

This launch is very close to Halloween. As with previous years I have some ideas and recommendations to keep the fun and enjoyment alive. During the day and evening, place a bowl of candy out for the kids. As they trick or treat you to inspect your rocket or rockets, you'll have a small treat to keep them at bay. On Saturday night, there are a couple of things. Bring firewood to contribute to the community fire pit. A place where everone goes after a long day of prepping, flying, and recovery. The community firepit is the center one, located about 30 yards West of the LCO table. Bring firewood to share. Also, consider bringing those glow-stick rings. They make great Frisbee like devices at night for both kids and adults to enjoy. Remember your candy at the community fire. If the youngsters want to test out their Halloween outfits, that's up to them. The goal is having a great time both day time and evening. 

The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by a flight control officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. 

Rocketober is a great launch event, and popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun. 

We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. 

Directions:
We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. 
http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm 

We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Some of us have been out there till 3am and later. 

New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain range. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we'll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm 

We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. 

Rocketober can be very cold at night. Last year they had snow. Prepare you and your family for everything, and plan to do layers with clothing. Cold or hot, water is so vital. Bring plenty of water for everyone in your group. Are you bringing an animal? Water, water, water. Keep everyone in your group healthy. 

Stop by the registration table for a wristband. Everyone is required to have one. If you are a non-member, launch fees are $10 per day or $15 per day and that covers the entire family. Spectators are free. 

Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, October 16th through 18th.

Cheers,
Robert

OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER 

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 18:43:30 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:43:30 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Rocketober Rocket Launch Event
	October 16th - 18th 2009
In-Reply-To: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert>
References: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909181843i28a08da9s2aed769e1625336e@mail.gmail.com>

Counting myself, our group will be 4 strong at Brothers.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY
> - ROCKETOBER -
>
> As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce
> our Rocketober rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening October 16th
> through 18th. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will
> join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific
> Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us.
>
> Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins
> with OregonRocketry. This is the final major launch event of 2009 for
> OregonRocketry. We can easily expect to see 100+ people at this launch. Hope
> you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of
> entertaining flights.
>
> October 16th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are
> welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance
> with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any
> level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members,
> those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch. However, you're not
> allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member
> to fly rockets on Friday. Sorry NAR members, but Research Friday is only for
> TRA members.
>
> Saturday October 17th and Sunday October 18th are commercial motor days.
> Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. You do not
> need to be member to fly Saturday or Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors,
> and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm
> Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you
> only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks
> work!!!
>
> Yes. Saturday evening will include a night launch. Rockets flying in the
> dark. But if you want to fly, something needs to illuminate your rocket.
> Those glow sticks taped to rockets can work. The onsite FSO will need to
> make sure everything is safe. If you're not sure, show the FSO your idea
> before committing. They may have ideas.
>
> This launch is very close to Halloween. As with previous years I have some
> ideas and recommendations to keep the fun and enjoyment alive. During the
> day and evening, place a bowl of candy out for the kids. As they trick or
> treat you to inspect your rocket or rockets, you'll have a small treat to
> keep them at bay. On Saturday night, there are a couple of things. Bring
> firewood to contribute to the community fire pit. A place where everone goes
> after a long day of prepping, flying, and recovery. The community firepit is
> the center one, located about 30 yards West of the LCO table. Bring firewood
> to share. Also, consider bringing those glow-stick rings. They make great
> Frisbee like devices at night for both kids and adults to enjoy. Remember
> your candy at the community fire. If the youngsters want to test out their
> Halloween outfits, that's up to them. The goal is having a great time both
> day time and evening.
>
> The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety
> code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please
> visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit
> NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there
> to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights
> will be reviewed by a flight control officer. They have final approval of
> your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer
> questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay
> time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation
> results if asked.
>
> Rocketober is a great launch event, and popular by members and the public.
> We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of
> fun.
>
> We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance
> to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL).
> We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA
> rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea
> level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet
> AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy.
>
> Directions:
> We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers
> launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions.
> http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm
>
> We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any
> more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The
> firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a
> fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk
> and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring
> some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights.
> We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to
> see. Some of us have been out there till 3am and later.
>
> New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site,
> and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain range. You need to
> be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet,
> sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water,
> water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we'll
> have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon
> Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and
> recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very
> persistent about minimal impact to the site.
> http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm
>
> We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of
> the event.
>
> Rocketober can be very cold at night. Last year they had snow. Prepare you
> and your family for everything, and plan to do layers with clothing. Cold or
> hot, water is so vital. Bring plenty of water for everyone in your group.
> Are you bringing an animal? Water, water, water. Keep everyone in your group
> healthy.
>
> Stop by the registration table for a wristband. Everyone is required to
> have one. If you are a non-member, launch fees are $10 per day or $15 per
> day and that covers the entire family. Spectators are free.
>
> Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am
> Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, October 16th through
> 18th.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY
> - ROCKETOBER
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Fri Sep 18 19:41:42 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] High power cluster/ staging
In-Reply-To: <223045.68014.qm@web82004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <223045.68014.qm@web82004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9f0be031e087c3fe26cc8662c8069331.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

I suggest you take Mr. Guenther under your wing and teach him everything
you know.

OROC has divided range safety duties into the RSO, who oversees broader
aspects of range safety, and Flight Safety Officers-FSO's, who basically
just do the pre-flight checkout of rockets.
+McG+


> So , what's an FSO ,
> ?
> and ,,? also ?I have had? NO , read that as NO problem staging or
> clustering high power motors from the start of my high power career ,? ten
> year's ago....? I am level three now and was when I started high power !
> My second high power rocket was a nine motor cluster with a central 54 ,
> four central 29's and four outer 28's , it's launch 4 times without any
> misfires. The saying is .. .. The sky's the limit,,, and only your pocket
> book will limit you ! !
> ?
> Christopher,
> keeping an open mind? and planing each of your rocket's event's will take
> you everywhere ! !
> ?
> GO FOR IT? ! !?? aim for the sky and try not to miss...
> ?
> -Paul
> --- On Thu, 9/17/09, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
> To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 8:38 PM
>
>
> Christopher,
> Clustering composite motors isn't like clustering Estes motors.? Ignition
> reliability and timing is a real problem.
>
> My feeling personally is that you shouldn't even think about clustering
> composite motors until you have a long track record of at least 90%
> first-try launches of single composite motors.
>
> As an FSO I give all composite clusters and their builders extra scrutiny.
> (Usually, if I can, I hand off the job to someone with more experience in
> that specific area for the sake of safety.) Anyone on the list who has
> launched high power clusters and airstarts has plenty of stories to tell
> of things not going according to plan.
>
> The irony is, clustering the smaller composite motors is more difficult
> than clustering the bigger ones due to igniter issues.
> +McG+
>
>
>> The reason i am after my L2 even 4 days after my L1 Certification is
>> mainly
>> because my true interest is in clusters and stages.? I want to start
>> making
>> some High Power cluster rockets and staged rockets.? I hope that answers
>> that.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:02 PM, <raystoner99 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Christopher,
>>>
>>> What's the rush?? If I'm not mistaken, you got your level one 4 days
>>> ago.
>>> I'm surprised that you are already seeking your L2, and in another
>>> email, I
>>> think you mentioned something about L3.
>>>
>>> Slow down, enjoy the journey.? There is lots to learn at each level of
>>> rocketry.? Your questions about tailcones, etc demonstrate to me that
>>> you
>>> have a lot to learn about rocketry.? I'm not talking down to you, just
>>> trying to point out that there is plenty of time and lots to learn
>>> along
>>> the
>>> way.
>>>
>>> I know that my philosophy isn't the same as all out there, but I
>>> believe
>>> you should spend some time flying at level 1 prior to flying level 2.
>>> Likewise, I believe you should spend some time at level 2 prior to
>>> level
>>> 3.
>>> The jump from L1 to L2 isn't nearly as large as the jump from L2 to L3,
>>> but
>>> there is a lot of information to be gathered at L1 that will help you
>>> when
>>> the time for L2 comes around.
>>>
>>> I spent quite some time at L1 before I got my L2, and even longer at L2
>>> prior to L3.? Excersize that L1 that you just obtained, grow, gain some
>>> experience, then grab that level 2.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Jeff Moore" <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:58:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
>>> Pacific
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Tail cones do they burn?
>>>
>>> I plan to make 2 hooks that hold the motor into the mount and bolt
>>> through
>>> a
>>> doubled up centering ring for each hook.? I will also have a? metal
>>> ring
>>> big
>>> enough to have 2 bolt holes drilled that the motor fits through and
>>> slides
>>> down the bolts.? This way the aft closure is butted against the metal
>>> ring
>>> and the hooks grab the back of the aft closure and tighten down with a
>>> lock
>>> washer and a nut.? This way it can be reached with a socket wrench
>>> using
>>> an
>>> extension.? Will this still be an Issue?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Jeff Moore <tnetcenter at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Yes!? It will cause problems.? You typically want the nozzle to be at
>>> the
>>> > very end of the rocket, in this case the end of the tail cone.?
>>> Unless
>>> you
>>> > use a commercial motor retention system (like Aeropack or Binder's
>>> motor
>>> > retention), the motor mount tube either needs to be flush with the
>>> end
>>> of
>>> > the rocket or extend past it by a 1/4 or 1/5 inch.? How are you
>>> planning
>>> to
>>> > retain your motor?? The commerical motor retention devices have their
>>> own
>>> > requirments for how far the motor mount tube needs to extend past the
>>> > bottom
>>> > of the rocket.? This needs to be planned for BEFORE construction
>>> starts -
>>> > you won't be able to easily accomodate a change after the fact!
>>> >
>>> > You also need to keep in mind the forces involved in Level 2 motors -
>>> the
>>> > motor mount tube assembly transfers all of the thrust of the motor to
>>> the
>>> > rest of the rocket unless you use the forward closure butted up
>>> against a
>>> > bulkhead for that.? The last thing you want is the motor and motor
>>> tube
>>> > assembly ripping up through the rest of the rocket.? That guarantees
>>> you
>>> > don't get your L2 cert and it could conceivably endanger the people
>>> > attending the launch.
>>> >
>>> > Jeff Moore
>>> > BORG
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I have a solid conical urethane tail cone.? It has a 3.125" throat.?
>>> I
>>> want
>>> > to butt it up against the motor mount which will be 38mm.? This will
>>> have
>>> > ruffly 3 inches from motor nozzle to aft of tail cone.? Will this
>>> cause
>>> any
>>> > issues with burning or melting of the tail cone?
>>> >
>>> > See picture for reference at:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/Motor%20Mount%20deep%20in%20Tail%20Cone.JPG
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> >
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From fred_bare at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 00:33:15 2009
From: fred_bare at yahoo.com (Fred Bare)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 00:33:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw: [rocketboostgliders] Replacement HighPowerRocketry
	group created on yahoo
Message-ID: <234294.82477.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello Rocketeers,
Bob Kaplow on one of my other Yahoo Groups (rocketboostgliders) has created a group for High power rocketry.? See attached letter.? I told him I would forward the letter to you all, as he did not want to look like he was Spamming our group here. Hope some of you will respond.
Thank you?for your time
Greg Wilson
Roadside Hobbies
253-961-4397

--- On Fri, 9/18/09, bobkaplow <bobkaplow at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: bobkaplow <bobkaplow at yahoo.com>
Subject: [rocketboostgliders] Replacement HighPowerRocketry group created on yahoo
To: rocketboostgliders at yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 9:36 PM


? 



[Please forgive the intrusion, this will be a one time announcement]

Last month I was looking for an HPR group here. The only one I found had been taken over by spammers after being abandoned by the owner. I contacted yahoo groups management but they have refused to help.

So I've created a new group, and would like to let folks know about it:

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/HighPowerR ocketry/

and the appropriate email addresses are

Post message: HighPowerRocketry@ yahoogroups. com
Subscribe: HighPowerRocketry- subscribe@ yahoogroups. com
Unsubscribe: HighPowerRocketry- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com
List owner: HighPowerRocketry- owner at yahoogroup s.com

It's been set up as a members only group, so hopefully it won't get taken over by spammers like the last one :-) When you join, please include a message so I can tell your an HPR person and not a spammer.

I'd like to find a few people to be moderators, so there is no single point of failure like the old group had. If you've got some experience as a group moderator, and are someone I know and trust, please offer to assist. While I have dabbled in HPR over the years, I'm certainly no expert there.

Bob


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From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 08:45:38 2009
From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th - 18th
	2009
In-Reply-To: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert>
References: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <201710.46383.qm@web50202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

If I had someone wanting to take a NAR level 2 written exam at Brothers in October, will there be someone there with tests?? Thanks.
Larry Colvin
BORG




________________________________
From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:30:59 PM
Subject: [OROC Members] OregonRocketry Rocketober Rocket Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009


OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER -
As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Rocketober rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening October 16th through 18th. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us. 
Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the final major launch event of 2009 for OregonRocketry. We can easily expect to see 100+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. 
October 16th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Sorry NAR members, but Research Friday is only for TRA members. 
Saturday October 17th and Sunday October 18th are commercial motor days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. You do not need to be member to fly Saturday or Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!!
Yes. Saturday evening will include a night launch. Rockets flying in the dark. But if you want to fly, something needs to illuminate your rocket. Those glow sticks taped to rockets can work. The onsite FSO will need to make sure everything is safe. If you're not sure, show the FSO your idea before committing. They may have ideas. 
This launch is very close to Halloween. As with previous years I have some ideas and recommendations to keep the fun and enjoyment alive. During the day and evening, place a bowl of candy out for the kids. As they trick or treat you to inspect your rocket or rockets, you'll have a small treat to keep them at bay. On Saturday night, there are a couple of things. Bring firewood to contribute to the community fire pit. A place where everone goes after a long day of prepping, flying, and recovery. The community firepit is the center one, located about 30 yards West of the LCO table. Bring firewood to share. Also, consider bringing those glow-stick rings. They make great Frisbee like devices at night for both kids and adults to enjoy. Remember your candy at the community fire. If the youngsters want to test out their Halloween outfits, that's up to them. The goal is having a great time both day time and evening. 
The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by a flight control officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. 
Rocketober is a great launch event, and popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun. 
We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. 
Directions:
We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. 
http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm 
We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Some of us have been out there till 3am and later. 
New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain range. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. 
We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. 
Rocketober can be very cold at night. Last year they had snow. Prepare you and your family for everything, and plan to do layers with clothing. Cold or hot, water is so vital. Bring plenty of water for everyone in your group. Are you bringing an animal? Water, water, water. Keep everyone in your group healthy. 
Stop by the registration table for a wristband. Everyone is required to have one. If you are a non-member, launch fees are $10 per day or $15 per day and that covers the entire family. Spectators are free. 
Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, October 16th through 18th.
Cheers,
Robert
OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm


      

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 14:40:30 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:40:30 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th -
	18th 2009
References: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert>
	<201710.46383.qm@web50202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>

Larry and all,
I'm not sure about L2 certs at the October launch. For NAR, Steve Tarr normally has testing materials for L2. However, I'm not sure if Steve plans to attend Rocketober. Steve (KD7MRX) is the head of coordinating HAM communications and much more for the Portland Marathon and I believe the Hood to Coast race. That said, Steve is very busy right now. Afterward, I'm not sure if Steve will need exposure to some sage or hiding in a dark quiet closet on that weekend. Mean no disrespect to Steve. I just know he's busy, and not sure if Rocketober is on the radar.

Steve Tarr's email is stevet19759 at comcast.net

TRA members, I've not heard if Greg Clark or Fred Azinger will be at this launch. 

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Colvin 
  To: Robert Krausert ; members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 8:45 AM
  Subject: NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009


  If I had someone wanting to take a NAR level 2 written exam at Brothers in October, will there be someone there with tests?  Thanks.
  Larry Colvin
  BORG




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
  To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
  Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:30:59 PM
  Subject: [OROC Members] OregonRocketry Rocketober Rocket Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009


  OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER -

  As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Rocketober rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening October 16th through 18th. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us. 

  Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the final major launch event of 2009 for OregonRocketry. We can easily expect to see 100+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. 

  October 16th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Sorry NAR members, but Research Friday is only for TRA members. 

  Saturday October 17th and Sunday October 18th are commercial motor days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. You do not need to be member to fly Saturday or Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!!

  Yes. Saturday evening will include a night launch. Rockets flying in the dark. But if you want to fly, something needs to illuminate your rocket. Those glow sticks taped to rockets can work. The onsite FSO will need to make sure everything is safe. If you're not sure, show the FSO your idea before committing. They may have ideas. 

  This launch is very close to Halloween. As with previous years I have some ideas and recommendations to keep the fun and enjoyment alive. During the day and evening, place a bowl of candy out for the kids. As they trick or treat you to inspect your rocket or rockets, you'll have a small treat to keep them at bay. On Saturday night, there are a couple of things. Bring firewood to contribute to the community fire pit. A place where everone goes after a long day of prepping, flying, and recovery. The community firepit is the center one, located about 30 yards West of the LCO table. Bring firewood to share. Also, consider bringing those glow-stick rings. They make great Frisbee like devices at night for both kids and adults to enjoy. Remember your candy at the community fire. If the youngsters want to test out their Halloween outfits, that's up to them. The goal is having a great time both day time and evening. 

  The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by a flight control officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. 

  Rocketober is a great launch event, and popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun. 

  We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. 

  Directions:
  We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. 
  http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm 

  We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Some of us have been out there till 3am and later. 

  New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain range. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm 

  We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. 

  Rocketober can be very cold at night. Last year they had snow. Prepare you and your family for everything, and plan to do layers with clothing. Cold or hot, water is so vital. Bring plenty of water for everyone in your group. Are you bringing an animal? Water, water, water. Keep everyone in your group healthy. 

  Stop by the registration table for a wristband. Everyone is required to have one. If you are a non-member, launch fees are $10 per day or $15 per day and that covers the entire family. Spectators are free. 

  Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, October 16th through 18th.

  Cheers,
  Robert

  OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER 



From fred at azinger.com  Sat Sep 19 15:34:00 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:34:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event
	October 16th -	18th 2009
In-Reply-To: <05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>
References: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert>	<201710.46383.qm@web50202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <007d01ca3979$492380d0$db6a8270$@com>

I cannot attend Rocketober -- wish I could as it is a fun launch -- I'll be out of town that weekend -- sorry

 

From: members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org [mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:41 PM
To: Larry Colvin; members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009

 

Larry and all,

I'm not sure about L2 certs at the October launch. For NAR, Steve Tarr normally has testing materials for L2. However, I'm not sure if Steve plans to attend Rocketober. Steve (KD7MRX) is the head of coordinating HAM communications and much more for the Portland Marathon and I believe the Hood to Coast race. That said, Steve is very busy right now. Afterward, I'm not sure if Steve will need exposure to some sage or hiding in a dark quiet closet on that weekend. Mean no disrespect to Steve. I just know he's busy, and not sure if Rocketober is on the radar.

 

Steve Tarr's email is stevet19759 at comcast.net

 

TRA members, I've not heard if Greg Clark or Fred Azinger will be at this launch. 

 

Cheers,

Robert

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Larry Colvin <mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>  

To: Robert <mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com>  Krausert ; members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 

Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 8:45 AM

Subject: NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009

 

If I had someone wanting to take a NAR level 2 written exam at Brothers in October, will there be someone there with tests?  Thanks.

Larry Colvin

BORG

 


  _____  


From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:30:59 PM
Subject: [OROC Members] OregonRocketry Rocketober Rocket Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009

OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER -

As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Rocketober rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening October 16th through 18th. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us. 

Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the final major launch event of 2009 for OregonRocketry. We can easily expect to see 100+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. 

October 16th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Sorry NAR members, but Research Friday is only for TRA members. 

Saturday October 17th and Sunday October 18th are commercial motor days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. You do not need to be member to fly Saturday or Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!!

Yes. Saturday evening will include a night launch. Rockets flying in the dark. But if you want to fly, something needs to illuminate your rocket. Those glow sticks taped to rockets can work. The onsite FSO will need to make sure everything is safe. If you're not sure, show the FSO your idea before committing. They may have ideas. 

This launch is very close to Halloween. As with previous years I have some ideas and recommendations to keep the fun and enjoyment alive. During the day and evening, place a bowl of candy out for the kids. As they trick or treat you to inspect your rocket or rockets, you'll have a small treat to keep them at bay. On Saturday night, there are a couple of things. Bring firewood to contribute to the community fire pit. A place where everone goes after a long day of prepping, flying, and recovery. The community firepit is the center one, located about 30 yards West of the LCO table. Bring firewood to share. Also, consider bringing those glow-stick rings. They make great Frisbee like devices at night for both kids and adults to enjoy. Remember your candy at the community fire. If the youngsters want to test out their Halloween outfits, that's up to them. The goal is having a great time both day time and evening. 

The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com <http://oregonrocketry.com/>  web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by a flight control officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. 

Rocketober is a great launch event, and popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun. 

We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. 

Directions:
We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. 
http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm 

We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Some of us have been out there till 3am and later. 

New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain range. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm 

We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. 

Rocketober can be very cold at night. Last year they had snow. Prepare you and your family for everything, and plan to do layers with clothing. Cold or hot, water is so vital. Bring plenty of water for everyone in your group. Are you bringing an animal? Water, water, water. Keep everyone in your group healthy. 

Stop by the registration table for a wristband. Everyone is required to have one. If you are a non-member, launch fees are $10 per day or $15 per day and that covers the entire family. Spectators are free. 

Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, October 16th through 18th.

Cheers,
Robert

OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER 

 


From stevet19759 at comcast.net  Sat Sep 19 16:56:46 2009
From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:56:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event
 October 16th -	18th 2009
In-Reply-To: <05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>
References: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert>	<201710.46383.qm@web50202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <4AB56FBE.5010202@comcast.net>

As Robert said, I'm swamped with Marathon stuff for another two weeks. 
I may or may not make Rocketober after that; it depends on the weather 
forecast, whether I can get my rocket ready in time, and what other 
things I'm trying to do before then.  (If I *don't* go to Rocketober, 
I'll be in an all weekend community sing with 150 other people, so it's 
going to be fun either way!)

I can send copies of the tests with someone else who's heading to 
Rocketober.  If there's a NAR L2 member on east side of the mountain 
who'd like to become the focal point for NAR certs through BORG, we can 
set that up, either through section 555 or by starting another NAR 
section, whichever you prefer.  But even if we don't do that, I'm sure 
we can find someone (again, NAR L2) to grade the exam and witness a cert 
flight.

-Steve

Robert Krausert wrote:
> Larry and all,
> I'm not sure about L2 certs at the October launch. For NAR, Steve Tarr normally has testing materials for L2. However, I'm not sure if Steve plans to attend Rocketober. Steve (KD7MRX) is the head of coordinating HAM communications and much more for the Portland Marathon and I believe the Hood to Coast race. That said, Steve is very busy right now. Afterward, I'm not sure if Steve will need exposure to some sage or hiding in a dark quiet closet on that weekend. Mean no disrespect to Steve. I just know he's busy, and not sure if Rocketober is on the radar.
> 
> Steve Tarr's email is stevet19759 at comcast.net
> 
> TRA members, I've not heard if Greg Clark or Fred Azinger will be at this launch. 
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Larry Colvin 
>   To: Robert Krausert ; members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 8:45 AM
>   Subject: NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009
> 
> 
>   If I had someone wanting to take a NAR level 2 written exam at Brothers in October, will there be someone there with tests?  Thanks.
>   Larry Colvin
>   BORG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
>   To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:30:59 PM
>   Subject: [OROC Members] OregonRocketry Rocketober Rocket Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009
> 
> 
>   OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER -
> 
>   As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Rocketober rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening October 16th through 18th. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us. 
> 
>   Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the final major launch event of 2009 for OregonRocketry. We can easily expect to see 100+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. 
> 
>   October 16th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Sorry NAR members, but Research Friday is only for TRA members. 
> 
>   Saturday October 17th and Sunday October 18th are commercial motor days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. You do not need to be member to fly Saturday or Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!!
> 
>   Yes. Saturday evening will include a night launch. Rockets flying in the dark. But if you want to fly, something needs to illuminate your rocket. Those glow sticks taped to rockets can work. The onsite FSO will need to make sure everything is safe. If you're not sure, show the FSO your idea before committing. They may have ideas. 
> 
>   This launch is very close to Halloween. As with previous years I have some ideas and recommendations to keep the fun and enjoyment alive. During the day and evening, place a bowl of candy out for the kids. As they trick or treat you to inspect your rocket or rockets, you'll have a small treat to keep them at bay. On Saturday night, there are a couple of things. Bring firewood to contribute to the community fire pit. A place where everone goes after a long day of prepping, flying, and recovery. The community firepit is the center one, located about 30 yards West of the LCO table. Bring firewood to share. Also, consider bringing those glow-stick rings. They make great Frisbee like devices at night for both kids and adults to enjoy. Remember your candy at the community fire. If the youngsters want to test out their Halloween outfits, that's up to them. The goal is having a great time both day time and evening. 
> 
>   The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by a flight control officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. 
> 
>   Rocketober is a great launch event, and popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun. 
> 
>   We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. 
> 
>   Directions:
>   We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. 
>   http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm 
> 
>   We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Some of us have been out there till 3am and later. 
> 
>   New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain range. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm 
> 
>   We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. 
> 
>   Rocketober can be very cold at night. Last year they had snow. Prepare you and your family for everything, and plan to do layers with clothing. Cold or hot, water is so vital. Bring plenty of water for everyone in your group. Are you bringing an animal? Water, water, water. Keep everyone in your group healthy. 
> 
>   Stop by the registration table for a wristband. Everyone is required to have one. If you are a non-member, launch fees are $10 per day or $15 per day and that covers the entire family. Spectators are free. 
> 
>   Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, October 16th through 18th.
> 
>   Cheers,
>   Robert
> 
>   OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> Members at oregonrocketry.org
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members


From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Sat Sep 19 18:43:04 2009
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 01:43:04 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
Message-ID: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 18:58:23 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:58:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule
Message-ID: <971D8A81ED37475FA4DFCF43B8283D3F@LaptopKrausert>

Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule

The following is the pre-semi-final flight schedule for the 2010 season. Please, as before, review the schedule. We are close to having it finalized, and need any serious concerns raised before we lock it in for next year. Most holidays are avoided. No new moons, effecting our vending. Fathers Day and Memorial Day are the only holidays.

May - Spring Thunder (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
May 21st - 23rd
Friday - May 21st, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - May 22nd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - May 23rd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

May - Memorial Launch to our Veterans and Fly-Off (35,500 AGL all weekend, a stretch but we'll try - all FAA can say is no)
May 28th - 31st
Friday - May 28th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - May 29th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - May 30th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Monday - May 31st, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
(This is a special new launch for Team BORG, Team Hardtail and other teams to join forces on Friday and throughout the weekend to put on a show. Others are welcome to fly. TRA members can fly Friday, everyone the rest of the weekend. If you intend to say through the week between Spring Thunder and Memorial Fly-Off, we can leave GSE in your control. Protective measures against weather are required. We can work that out. We'll also need a generator to charge batteries. Join us at Spring Thunder and the 4-day launch Memorial Launch to our veterans.)
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

June - Summer Skies (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
June 18th - 20th
Friday - June 18th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - June 19th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - June 20th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

July - Desert Heat
July 16th - 18th
Friday - July 16th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - July 17th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - July 18th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

August - Desert EXtreme (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
August 13th - 15th
Friday - August 13th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - August 14th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - August 15th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 3:00pm
Bring Your Ground Support Equipment; No Trailer for this event
No vending

September - Fillible's Folly (5,400 AGL
eptember 10th - 12th
Friday - September 10th, Members Only Event Commercial Motors Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - September 11th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - September 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

October - Rocketober (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
October 8th - 10th
Friday - October 8th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - October 9th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - October 10th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed 
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 19:08:08 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:08:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight
	Schedule
Message-ID: <6099643863394B79A18AB1C1B6187660@LaptopKrausert>

Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule
The following is the pre-semi-final flight schedule for the 2010 season. Please, as before, review the schedule. We are close to having it finalized, and need any serious concerns raised before we lock it in for next year. Most holidays are avoided. No new moons, effecting our vending. Fathers Day and Memorial Day are the only holidays.

May - Spring Thunder (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
May 21st - 23rd
Friday - May 21st, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - May 22nd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - May 23rd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

May - Memorial Launch to our Veterans and Fly-Off (35,500 AGL all weekend, a stretch but we'll try - all FAA can say is no)
(Each team will have specially colored flight cards, the one team with the most total Newtons wins the fly-off)
May 28th - 31st
Friday - May 28th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - May 29th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - May 30th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Monday - May 31st, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
(This is a special new launch for Team BORG, Team Hardtail and other teams to join forces on Friday and throughout the weekend to put on a show. Others are welcome to fly. TRA members can fly Friday, everyone the rest of the weekend. If you intend to stay through the week between Spring Thunder and Memorial Fly-Off, we can leave GSE in your control. Protective measures against weather are required. We can work that out. We'll also need a generator to charge batteries. Join us at Spring Thunder and the 4-day launch Memorial Launch to our veterans.)
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

June - Summer Skies (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
June 18th - 20th
Friday - June 18th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - June 19th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - June 20th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

July - Desert Heat
July 16th - 18th
Friday - July 16th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - July 17th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - July 18th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

August - Desert EXtreme (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
August 13th - 15th
Friday - August 13th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - August 14th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - August 15th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 3:00pm
Bring Your Ground Support Equipment; No Trailer for this event
No vending

September - Fillible's Folly (5,400 AGL
eptember 10th - 12th
Friday - September 10th, Members Only Event Commercial Motors Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - September 11th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - September 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

October - Rocketober (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
October 8th - 10th
Friday - October 8th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - October 9th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - October 10th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed 
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

From rbraibish at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 19:10:39 2009
From: rbraibish at yahoo.com (rbraibish at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 02:10:39 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event
	October 16th -18th 2009
In-Reply-To: <05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>
References: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert><201710.46383.qm@web50202.mail.re2.yahoo.com><05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <1587461235-1253412555-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1418227216-@bda080.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Assuming we have passed the test already, will we be able to do cert. flights? 

Robert Braibish
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert Krausert" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>

Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:40:30 
To: Larry Colvin<larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>; <members at oregonrocketry.org>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: Re: [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th -
	18th 2009


_______________________________________________
Members mailing list
Members at oregonrocketry.org
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members




From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com  Sat Sep 19 19:18:10 2009
From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:18:10 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <OF20E2416E.BC3A4F12-ON88257637.000B0E16-88257637.000CA65F@jci.com>

Who's going to Balls?   We are!  (Team Numb: Tyler, Jason, John and me.
Dave will be staying home with a brand new baby)

When are we leaving?  When we're finally done.  Most likely Thur morning.
Brad, if you get there 1st, save me the usual spot.

What are we flying?  One keg of Roots beer and then a 3FNC 6" full O.

What are we drinking?  The beer we've flown, then everyone else's beer.
Fred, bring more beer.

I think we can find some funky shirts.  Preferably tye-dyed!

So looking forward to getting there!!!

 -- Peter





                                                                           
             "Angela \"Red\"                                               
             Wright"                                                       
             <angelawr at wrighth                                          To 
             oldings.com>              Rockets NW list                     
             Sent by:                  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>             
             rockets-bounces at r                                          cc 
             ocketsnw.com                                                  
                                                                   Subject 
                                       [RocketsNW] hey everyone            
             09/19/2009 06:43                                              
             PM                                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           




SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are
you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
(please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sat Sep 19 19:34:24 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 22:34:24 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
Message-ID: <d58.4923024b.37e6eeb0@aol.com>

38mm L in all aluminum Mr. Scary.  And a 75mm Coaxial dual thrust  K2000 to 
M8000 in a single stage.  I'm almost finished building the central  motor's 
ejection canister.  More mixing and packing to go.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/19/2009 7:20:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com writes:

Who's  going to Balls?   We are!  (Team Numb: Tyler, Jason, John and  me.
Dave will be staying home with a brand new baby)

When are we  leaving?  When we're finally done.  Most likely Thur  morning.
Brad, if you get there 1st, save me the usual spot.

What  are we flying?  One keg of Roots beer and then a 3FNC 6" full  O.

What are we drinking?  The beer we've flown, then everyone  else's beer.
Fred, bring more beer.

I think we can find some funky  shirts.  Preferably tye-dyed!

So looking forward to getting  there!!!

-- Peter






"Angela  \"Red\"                      
Wright"                      
<angelawr at wrighth          To 
oldings.com>             Rockets NW list                 
Sent  by:                   <rockets at rocketsnw.com>              
rockets-bounces at r    cc 
ocketsnw.com         
Subject 
[RocketsNW] hey everyone             
09/19/2009 06:43     
PM         








SO  who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are  you
flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and  what are
you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can  hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
shirts again  to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
(please wear your  shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to  all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a.  RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From rbraibish at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 19:44:57 2009
From: rbraibish at yahoo.com (rbraibish at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 02:44:57 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch
	EventOctober 16th -18th 2009
Message-ID: <457462533-1253414617-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-446571355-@bda080.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

NAR
------Original Message------
From: Robert Krausert
To: rbraibish at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch EventOctober 16th -18th 2009
Sent: Sep 19, 2009 19:20

NAR or TRA


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <rbraibish at yahoo.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch 
EventOctober 16th -18th 2009


> Assuming we have passed the test already, will we be able to do cert. 
> flights?
>
> Robert Braibish
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Robert Krausert" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
>
> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:40:30
> To: Larry Colvin<larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>; <members at oregonrocketry.org>; 
> <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Subject: Re: [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 
> 16th -
> 18th 2009
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> Members at oregonrocketry.org
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 



Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 19:46:22 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:46:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch
	EventOctober 16th -18th 2009
References: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert><201710.46383.qm@web50202.mail.re2.yahoo.com><05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>
	<1587461235-1253412555-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1418227216-@bda080.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <FBB4FCFA8C0E4F3DA679ECFE708D8E99@LaptopKrausert>

For L2, all you need is two NAR L2's to certify your flight. This is with 
NAR only. But if haven't taken the test, you'll need to complete that first, 
I believe.

TRA folks, I have no confirmation of someone being there. Fred will not make 
the trip. If Greg isn't there, no TRA certs will be happening.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <rbraibish at yahoo.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch 
EventOctober 16th -18th 2009


> Assuming we have passed the test already, will we be able to do cert. 
> flights?
>
> Robert Braibish
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Robert Krausert" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
>
> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:40:30
> To: Larry Colvin<larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>; <members at oregonrocketry.org>; 
> <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Subject: Re: [OROC Members] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 
> 16th -
> 18th 2009
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> Members at oregonrocketry.org
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From adrian.l.carbine at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 20:51:31 2009
From: adrian.l.carbine at gmail.com (Adrian L Carbine)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:51:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <d2e7ff5a0909192051q175e0d75qba03e9ad714dadda@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going...sent my registration in on Wednesday. Randy Steck and I are
going pile into my RV again this year, along with a couple of buddies
(first-timers) who were interested in coming along.

This year I'm trying again to get my 3-stage "Triple Threat" rocket in the
air. Let's recap: 3 years ago: first two stages flew fine, but electronics
problem kept 3rd-stage motor from igniting. 2 years ago: bad weather and
launch pad source fell through. Last year: FAA nixed my flight until too
late to fix an open circuit that happened at the pad. This year: AMW N4000
--> AT N2000 --> AT M650 and hopefully ~80k ft AGL on ~90% O impulse!

The plan is to leave Wednesday morning, arrive Wednesday night, prep on
Thursday, fly on Friday morning. Saturday morning as backup in case of
weather on Friday. Drinking: lots of water, and some Henry Weinhart's root
beer :-)  Yes, you can have some.

Looking forward to seeing all the great NW projects fly!!!
--- Adrian

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Angela "Red" Wright <
angelawr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:

> SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
> flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are
> you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>
> SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
> shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
>  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
>
> Cheers to all!
>
> Angela Dinese Wright
> a.k.a. RED
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 22:32:07 2009
From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 22:32:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th -
	18th 2009
In-Reply-To: <05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>
References: <EF545886BD83428E8B7B77D187C470C1@LaptopKrausert>
	<201710.46383.qm@web50202.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<05F42586263444488FBFF2EDFAA5D2E0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <266302.77837.qm@web50212.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

OK.? Thanks Robert.? Doesn't sound promising.
Larry




________________________________
From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
To: Larry Colvin <larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com>; members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:40:30 PM
Subject: Re: NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009

? 
Larry and all,
I'm not sure about L2 certs at the October launch. For NAR, Steve Tarr normally has testing materials for L2. However, I'm not sure if Steve plans to attend Rocketober. Steve (KD7MRX) is the head of coordinating HAM communications and much more for the Portland Marathon and I believe the Hood to Coast race. That said, Steve is very busy right now. Afterward, I'm not sure if Steve will need exposure to some sage or hiding in a dark quiet closet on that weekend. Mean no disrespect to Steve. I just know he's busy, and not sure if Rocketober is on the radar.
?
Steve Tarr's email is stevet19759 at comcast.net
?
TRA members, I've not heard if Greg Clark or Fred Azinger will be at this launch. 
?
Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Larry Colvin 
>To: Robert Krausert ; members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
>Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 8:45 AM
>Subject: NAR Level 2 test at Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009
>
>
>If I had someone wanting to take a NAR level 2 written exam at Brothers in October, will there be someone there with tests?? Thanks.
>Larry Colvin
>BORG
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>
>To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:30:59 PM
>Subject: [OROC Members] OregonRocketry Rocketober Rocket Launch Event October 16th - 18th 2009
>
>
>OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER -
>As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Rocketober rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening October 16th through 18th. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us. 
>Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the final major launch event of 2009 for OregonRocketry. We can easily expect to see 100+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. 
>October 16th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Sorry NAR members, but Research Friday is only for TRA members. 
>Saturday October 17th and Sunday October 18th are commercial motor days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. You do not need to be member to fly Saturday or Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!!
>Yes. Saturday evening will include a night launch. Rockets flying in the dark. But if you want to fly, something needs to illuminate your rocket. Those glow sticks taped to rockets can work. The onsite FSO will need to make sure everything is safe. If you're not sure, show the FSO your idea before committing. They may have ideas. 
>This launch is very close to Halloween. As with previous years I have some ideas and recommendations to keep the fun and enjoyment alive. During the day and evening, place a bowl of candy out for the kids. As they trick or treat you to inspect your rocket or rockets, you'll have a small treat to keep them at bay. On Saturday night, there are a couple of things. Bring firewood to contribute to the community fire pit. A place where everone goes after a long day of prepping, flying, and recovery. The community firepit is the center one, located about 30 yards West of the LCO table. Bring firewood to share. Also, consider bringing those glow-stick rings. They make great Frisbee like devices at night for both kids and adults to enjoy. Remember your candy at the community fire. If the youngsters want to test out their Halloween outfits, that's up to them. The goal is having a great time both day time and evening. 
>The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by a flight control officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. 
>Rocketober is a great launch event, and popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun. 
>We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. 
>Directions:
>We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. 
>http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm 
>We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Some of us have been out there till 3am and later. 
>New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain range. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. 
>We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. 
>Rocketober can be very cold at night. Last year they had snow. Prepare you and your family for everything, and plan to do layers with clothing. Cold or hot, water is so vital. Bring plenty of water for everyone in your group. Are you bringing an animal? Water, water, water. Keep everyone in your group healthy. 
>Stop by the registration table for a wristband. Everyone is required to have one. If you are a non-member, launch fees are $10 per day or $15 per day and that covers the entire family. Spectators are free. 
>Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, October 16th through 18th.
>Cheers,
>Robert
>OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER - OREGONROCKETRY - ROCKETOBER http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm
>


      

From fred at azinger.com  Sun Sep 20 07:34:38 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:34:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <009701ca39ff$7c25b490$74711db0$@com>

Well....not sure what we are flying yet...depends on how the static test
goes today.

Presumed flights are:
Team Hardtail's Nike Apache -- yes, last year's "best CATO" is coming back.
I hope to avoid a repeat, so we are testing today.  We did try an O-6500
Finocyl, but that went boom....  I'm trying again today with a milder mix
that pencils out to an O-2800.  If that fails, I'll mix an O-sparky which I
know is "safe".  The sustainer has an N-900 Moonburner with HEI and smoke.
Our test burn burned though it's plenum after 10 seconds of burn, but we
have a fix and that motor is a go.... 
  
Hardtail is back for the sixth year -- O-3600 center airstarting three
L-1500's with HEI.

I'm going to fly a 4" minimum diameter on a N-2200 long burn.
Gabe, Mike and Steve are all going to fly 75mm M-2400's in their 4" rockets.
Thankfully, all these motors are done ... the only motor left to finish is
the Apache booster.

We have new shirts of course.....debut on the Playa.

We hope to arrive Wednesday....plan to start flying Friday.
We found out too late to join the keg loft, otherwise we would
participate....guess we'll have to bring plenty of beer in little
containers.... ;-)

We'll need a lot -- current headcount is 9, maybe 10....
We are trying to decide if we need to expand to six EZ-UPs this year.
Our mondo-tracking antenna will also be back, better than ever...

See ya on the Playa
So much to do, but can't wait!!!

 


From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 20 08:12:00 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:12:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] propellant didn't ignite?
Message-ID: <4AB64640.7030104@earthlink.net>

http://www.break.com/index/french_military_test_fires_anti_tank_missile.html

Looks like this French anti-tank missile didn't ignite in this video.

Robert

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 20 08:47:02 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:47:02 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
Message-ID: <4AB64E76.4040206@earthlink.net>

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/

Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
Saturday, September 19, 2009

Are you a rocketry genius?

Do you have a high power personality?

Do you love all things propulsive?

Does APCP make you weak in the knees?

Powderhouse Productions is casting a television reality program and 
we?re searching for the most outrageous, entertaining and daring amateur 
rocket builder in America.

The perfect host for our program will stop at nothing to build the 
biggest, baddest and most powerful experimental thrusters this side of 
Area 51.

He or she is knowledgeable about the science and the craft of rocketry 
and is just dying to take millions of viewers along on the ride of their 
lives.

Please e-mail a short casting video to Alex McHale ( 
amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net> This email 
address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled 
to view it ) or mail DVDs to Alex at:

*Powderhouse Productions*
212 Elm Street
Somerville, MA 02144

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 10:04:33 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 10:04:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated2: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight
	Schedule
Message-ID: <E7D4BBB43870459483C86938880B2115@LaptopKrausert>


Didn't realize FITS was always Memorial Day weekend. I thought it just worked out that way this year. At the next OROC club meeting, we'll discuss a non-conflisting weekend for the Fly-Off. 

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:08 PM
  Subject: Updated: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule


  Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule
  The following is the pre-semi-final flight schedule for the 2010 season. Please, as before, review the schedule. We are close to having it finalized, and need any serious concerns raised before we lock it in for next year. Most holidays are avoided. No new moons, effecting our vending. Fathers Day and Memorial Day are the only holidays.

  May - Spring Thunder (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
  May 21st - 23rd
  Friday - May 21st, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Saturday - May 22nd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Sunday - May 23rd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
  GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
  Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

  June - Summer Skies (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
  June 18th - 20th
  Friday - June 18th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Saturday - June 19th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Sunday - June 20th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
  GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
  Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

  July - Desert Heat
  July 16th - 18th
  Friday - July 16th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Saturday - July 17th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Sunday - July 18th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
  GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
  Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

  August - Desert EXtreme (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
  August 13th - 15th
  Friday - August 13th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Saturday - August 14th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Sunday - August 15th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 3:00pm
  Bring Your Ground Support Equipment; No Trailer for this event
  No vending

  September - Fillible's Folly (5,400 AGL
  eptember 10th - 12th
  Friday - September 10th, Members Only Event Commercial Motors Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Saturday - September 11th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Sunday - September 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
  GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
  Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

  October - Rocketober (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
  October 8th - 10th
  Friday - October 8th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Saturday - October 9th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
  Sunday - October 10th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
  GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed 
  Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Sun Sep 20 10:06:08 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 10:06:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <002d01ca3a14$a6505580$f2f10080$@net>

I'll be there...Planning on Flying a 7 grain 75mm M1400 (~8300NS) Orange
Sunset formula in Fresh Paint (or is that fresh pain? Another rebuild of the
fin can following a hard landing) and a 6 grain 54mm K500 (~2150NS) in a
54mm min diameter bird.

As is normal for me, I still have to complete (start) the work on the
rockets...

What's the deal with the shirts?  What does Funky mean?  What day do we wear
them?

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are
you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
(please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Sep 20 11:10:57 2009
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:10:57 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <002d01ca3a14$a6505580$f2f10080$@net>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<002d01ca3a14$a6505580$f2f10080$@net>
Message-ID: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E347160112E1@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>

WOOOHHOOO so glad you are going to be there.  It will be great to see you and all the Dog Pack!  :)  Good times will be had by all.  We will have a big fire pit again this year too so that will be fun for singing around. :)

I am going to fly my level II bird that I certed at FITS.  Bring a couple big motors and see what happens. :)

Funky shirts, Friday and or Saturday you know something that says something funny or tye dye like Pete always wears.  I just thought it would be fun. :)

See u soon!!

Angela Dinese Wright

-----Original Message-----
From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:06 AM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

I'll be there...Planning on Flying a 7 grain 75mm M1400 (~8300NS) Orange
Sunset formula in Fresh Paint (or is that fresh pain? Another rebuild of the
fin can following a hard landing) and a 6 grain 54mm K500 (~2150NS) in a
54mm min diameter bird.

As is normal for me, I still have to complete (start) the work on the
rockets...

What's the deal with the shirts?  What does Funky mean?  What day do we wear
them?

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are
you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
(please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep 20 11:56:00 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:56:00 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
Message-ID: <d30.5638d127.37e7d4c0@aol.com>

Rebuilding the HEI module for the coaxial motor and was wondering where  
everybody gets those aluminum battery holders for  9V.
 
Mike F.

From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Sun Sep 20 12:12:42 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:12:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
In-Reply-To: <d30.5638d127.37e7d4c0@aol.com>
References: <d30.5638d127.37e7d4c0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003101ca3a26$552cd450$ff867cf0$@net>

The ones I get are from Radio Shack...but I don't know if they are the ones
you are looking for.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062220

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:56 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders

Rebuilding the HEI module for the coaxial motor and was wondering where  
everybody gets those aluminum battery holders for  9V.
 
Mike F.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep 20 12:39:18 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:39:18 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
Message-ID: <c4f.509a2096.37e7dee6@aol.com>

Nope.  Looking for the one piece aluminum ones with built in  clip.  I've 
got some plastic ones, but really need metal for the loading it  is going to 
take.
 
Thanks,
Mike
 
 
In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:14:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
raystoner99 at comcast.net writes:

The ones  I get are from Radio Shack...but I don't know if they are the ones
you are  looking  for.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062220

Ray



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 12:44:00 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:44:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] USPS Mailing Carton Rocket @ Sheridan
Message-ID: <64C0ACA5F2BD41A6A93A3E83044B4AC4@LaptopKrausert>

Did anyone find a USPS Mailing Rocket while tearing down at Sheridan? Dale accidentally left it behind and hoping someone may have found it.

If you did, can you write me back and let me know where it went. 

Cheers,
Robert

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 12:48:06 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:48:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
References: <c4f.509a2096.37e7dee6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8DCACA9995AC4CDDB9AAB252A6035289@LaptopKrausert>

http://www.cmeproducts.com/9voltholders.htm

How about S49 or S54?

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
To: <raystoner99 at comcast.net>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders


> Nope.  Looking for the one piece aluminum ones with built in  clip.  I've
> got some plastic ones, but really need metal for the loading it  is going 
> to
> take.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:14:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> raystoner99 at comcast.net writes:
>
> The ones  I get are from Radio Shack...but I don't know if they are the 
> ones
> you are  looking  for.
>
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062220
>
> Ray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep 20 12:48:41 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:48:41 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
Message-ID: <cc4.58bfc18f.37e7e119@aol.com>

Brought this back to the NW list in case others were wondering what the  
heck a coaxial motor is.
 
Yes.  The M uses my fastest formula which makes the core and  nozzle throat 
large enough to fit a 38mm motor and recovery gear inside  it.  The 38mm 
has to have enough thrust to lift the heavy M and rocket  though, thus the 36" 
long 38mm casing used.  I've flown the K for many  years, the M got tested 
last season in Jack Caynon's rocket.  Both motors  work, it's just the 
interface I had trouble with last year.  Both motors  were developed separately 
with this end goal in mind.
 
The K2000 motor with recovery gear gets ejected at burn out, then the M8000 
 gets lit three seconds later via head end ignition.
 
I have high confidence it will work this time.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:36:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:

Hi  Mike,
Is this the one  you mentioned to me at a launch awhile  back   where the
smaller motor fits inside the nozzle/core of the  larger  second motor.?
Your super fast EX formula(s) making this  possible ?

Thanks in advance,
Dustin

I went off-list but feel  free to take reply back on-list, if you  want.

--------------------------------------------------------------


From:  Mfreptiles at aol.com

To: rockets at rocketsnw.com

Subject: Re:  [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
Message-ID:  <d58.4923024b.37e6eeb0 at aol.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="US-ASCII"

38mm L in all aluminum Mr. Scary.  And a 75mm  Coaxial dual thrust  K2000 to
M8000 in a single stage.  I'm  almost finished building the central  motor's
ejection canister.   More mixing and packing to go.

Mike  F.






From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep 20 12:51:26 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:51:26 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
Message-ID: <c3d.645792c7.37e7e1be@aol.com>

Those are close, but I could have sworn that I've seen some that have  
support for the battery at both ends.
 
Mike
 
 
In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:48:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

http://www.cmeproducts.com/9voltholders.htm

How about S49 or  S54?



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 13:47:31 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:47:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<009701ca39ff$7c25b490$74711db0$@com>
Message-ID: <89E51AFAC7A74BB3BF1F41376FA70E74@LaptopKrausert>

I'm certainly bummed. Because my truck will not get to breathe playa dust 
this year. Some incredible flights and motors planned for BALLS this year. 
And the funky shirts too.

Have a great time to all. Wish I was there.

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>
To: "'Angela "Red" Wright'" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>; "'Rockets NW 
list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


> Well....not sure what we are flying yet...depends on how the static test
> goes today.
>
> Presumed flights are:
> Team Hardtail's Nike Apache -- yes, last year's "best CATO" is coming 
> back.
> I hope to avoid a repeat, so we are testing today.  We did try an O-6500
> Finocyl, but that went boom....  I'm trying again today with a milder mix
> that pencils out to an O-2800.  If that fails, I'll mix an O-sparky which 
> I
> know is "safe".  The sustainer has an N-900 Moonburner with HEI and smoke.
> Our test burn burned though it's plenum after 10 seconds of burn, but we
> have a fix and that motor is a go....
>
> Hardtail is back for the sixth year -- O-3600 center airstarting three
> L-1500's with HEI.
>
> I'm going to fly a 4" minimum diameter on a N-2200 long burn.
> Gabe, Mike and Steve are all going to fly 75mm M-2400's in their 4" 
> rockets.
> Thankfully, all these motors are done ... the only motor left to finish is
> the Apache booster.
>
> We have new shirts of course.....debut on the Playa.
>
> We hope to arrive Wednesday....plan to start flying Friday.
> We found out too late to join the keg loft, otherwise we would
> participate....guess we'll have to bring plenty of beer in little
> containers.... ;-)
>
> We'll need a lot -- current headcount is 9, maybe 10....
> We are trying to decide if we need to expand to six EZ-UPs this year.
> Our mondo-tracking antenna will also be back, better than ever...
>
> See ya on the Playa
> So much to do, but can't wait!!!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 20 14:01:28 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:01:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
In-Reply-To: <c3d.645792c7.37e7e1be@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A42D8F33EC774EC289969CE8F8F87DC2@steve>

Mike, 

For high-G flights I highly recommend you de-couple (mechanically)
battery terminal connections and battery mounting.  

One way to do this is to connect with standard battery clips (low mass
relative to spring retention) - RadioShack carries decent clips with
about 6" fly-leads or better yet solder direct - always use
fine-stranded wire for best flexibility / reliability and use batteries
the have welded cell tabs.

Use JB Weld to anchor the battery down - use aluminum tape separator to
glue onto - you'll destroy the battery getting it off.

Battery holders are nice, but the method described above is simpler and
more robust IMO.

/Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 12:51 PM
To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net;
rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders

Those are close, but I could have sworn that I've seen some that have  
support for the battery at both ends.
 
Mike
 
 
In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:48:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

http://www.cmeproducts.com/9voltholders.htm

How about S49 or  S54?


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 20 14:23:32 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:23:32 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <6F4AC0CD2BC2425A9B5A9907C44D50CD@steve>

Hi Red,

Looking forward to this year's BALLS event also.

I'm flying a single stage 98mm rocket off of a dedicated tower based on
DawgPacBob's coffee can concept.

Motor choice will be N4000 (5-grain, 10%N) and N1700 (6-grain, 40%N).
The usual redundant dual-deploy setup w/ telemetry, GPS and supplemental
tracking considered.

I'll be bringing top-shelf liquor to comply with the wishes of my
father-in-law who is visiting BlackRock for a second time - he had a
blast at XPRS a few years ago and wants to do it again.

ETA Thursday evening.

/Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
are you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your
shirts.  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u
naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 14:30:13 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:30:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Found; AIM 97A Rocket
Message-ID: <3190216832984FE48E4221D54699E742@LaptopKrausert>

If you flew an AIM 97A rocket at Sheridan and couldn't find it, the rocket was found. It landed on the neighbors land and they returned it during tear down Sunday. 

Thank Dave Armstrong. He photographed it. It's now in the trailer. Let me know if it's yours.

Cheers,
Robert

From fred at azinger.com  Sun Sep 20 14:33:20 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:33:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <009701ca39ff$7c25b490$74711db0$@com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<009701ca39ff$7c25b490$74711db0$@com>
Message-ID: <003f01ca3a39$fae7c2c0$f0b74840$@com>

The static test of the 6" Finocyl was a success!!!

Glad that worked as I didn't really want to switch configurations with so
little time left.
I've already have 1 grain of the flight motor cast -- one more batch to go
to finished the grains..... It's a three grain configuration with each grain
weighing a little over 10 pounds.

I pulled the mandrel on the Moonburner grain and I looks perfect.

Looking good for a O-N flight with over 20 seconds of burn!
Pushing to get over 50k.
Now I need to finished the video recorder and the rest of the electronics
for the sustainer.

FredA

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Fred Azinger
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:35 AM
To: 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Well....not sure what we are flying yet...depends on how the static test
goes today.

Presumed flights are:
Team Hardtail's Nike Apache -- yes, last year's "best CATO" is coming back.
I hope to avoid a repeat, so we are testing today.  We did try an O-6500
Finocyl, but that went boom....  I'm trying again today with a milder mix
that pencils out to an O-2800.  If that fails, I'll mix an O-sparky which I
know is "safe".  The sustainer has an N-900 Moonburner with HEI and smoke.
Our test burn burned though it's plenum after 10 seconds of burn, but we
have a fix and that motor is a go.... 
  
Hardtail is back for the sixth year -- O-3600 center airstarting three
L-1500's with HEI.

I'm going to fly a 4" minimum diameter on a N-2200 long burn.
Gabe, Mike and Steve are all going to fly 75mm M-2400's in their 4" rockets.
Thankfully, all these motors are done ... the only motor left to finish is
the Apache booster.

We have new shirts of course.....debut on the Playa.

We hope to arrive Wednesday....plan to start flying Friday.
We found out too late to join the keg loft, otherwise we would
participate....guess we'll have to bring plenty of beer in little
containers.... ;-)

We'll need a lot -- current headcount is 9, maybe 10....
We are trying to decide if we need to expand to six EZ-UPs this year.
Our mondo-tracking antenna will also be back, better than ever...

See ya on the Playa
So much to do, but can't wait!!!

 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From fred at azinger.com  Sun Sep 20 14:36:35 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:36:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <6F4AC0CD2BC2425A9B5A9907C44D50CD@steve>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<6F4AC0CD2BC2425A9B5A9907C44D50CD@steve>
Message-ID: <004001ca3a3a$6ddfd420$499f7c60$@com>

"top-shelf liquor" ---> Party at Steve!!!!


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 2:24 PM
To: 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Hi Red,

Looking forward to this year's BALLS event also.

I'm flying a single stage 98mm rocket off of a dedicated tower based on
DawgPacBob's coffee can concept.

Motor choice will be N4000 (5-grain, 10%N) and N1700 (6-grain, 40%N).
The usual redundant dual-deploy setup w/ telemetry, GPS and supplemental
tracking considered.

I'll be bringing top-shelf liquor to comply with the wishes of my
father-in-law who is visiting BlackRock for a second time - he had a
blast at XPRS a few years ago and wants to do it again.

ETA Thursday evening.

/Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
are you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your
shirts.  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u
naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep 20 14:42:06 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:42:06 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
Message-ID: <d09.4b4105f2.37e7fbae@aol.com>

Now that's gonna be good! :)  Congrats on the test burn.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/20/2009 2:34:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
fred at azinger.com writes:

Looking  good for a O-N flight with over 20 seconds of  burn!



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep 20 14:43:16 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:43:16 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
Message-ID: <c31.631e1c32.37e7fbf4@aol.com>

Thanks Steve.  Sounds good to me!
 
Mike
 
 
In a message dated 9/20/2009 2:01:43 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
steve-c at ix.netcom.com writes:

Mike,  

For high-G flights I highly recommend you de-couple  (mechanically)
battery terminal connections and battery mounting.   

One way to do this is to connect with standard battery clips (low  mass
relative to spring retention) - RadioShack carries decent clips  with
about 6" fly-leads or better yet solder direct - always  use
fine-stranded wire for best flexibility / reliability and use  batteries
the have welded cell tabs.

Use JB Weld to anchor the  battery down - use aluminum tape separator to
glue onto - you'll destroy  the battery getting it off.

Battery holders are nice, but the method  described above is simpler and
more robust  IMO.

/Steve

-----Original Message-----
From:  rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On  Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 12:51  PM
To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com;  raystoner99 at comcast.net;
rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW]  Metal battery holders

Those are close, but I could have sworn that I've  seen some that have  
support for the battery at both  ends.

Mike


In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:48:29 P.M.  Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com  writes:

http://www.cmeproducts.com/9voltholders.htm

How about  S49 or   S54?


_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets





From mrcpu23 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 20 15:03:57 2009
From: mrcpu23 at yahoo.com (Jason Shorts)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:03:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW]  Introduction
Message-ID: <254776.26796.qm@web52401.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi,
?
I am new to rocketry and want to learn more and get involved in learning more and was wondering if there are any good web sites and/or places to go to learn more so I can work towards my L1 certification. I have received my NAR/TRA cards and live in the Portland, Oregon area.
?
Thank you in advance and hope to hear back from you soon... :)
?
Jason...

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 15:53:57 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:53:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
References: <254776.26796.qm@web52401.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <430AD33CC2CF4FCCB6DB06FC415B8249@LaptopKrausert>

Jason,
First Welcome.

On October 1st we have the OregonRocketry meeting held at Giovanni's in 
Beaverton. Check our website for directions at OregonRocketry.com. Starts at 
7:30pm, but many show up by 6:30pm for dinner and rocket talk.

Websites of information are vast. Search the web for what your interest 
hold. Visit VernK.com for a historical review of Vern Knowles adventures 
into High Power. I don't want to focus just on Vern, but his detail is 
great. There is rocketsmagazine.com. Bob and Neil have great information. 
There is wrightholdings.com with projects. Pictures and videos at 
NorthwestRocketry.com under images section.

NAR and TRA have a ton of information, plus the safety codes you'll want to 
know.

The next launch we have is Rocketober on October 17th and 18th at the 
Brothers site. Join us there for some High Power flights. OregonRocketry.com 
for directions, schedule, and site rules.

Cheers,
Robert
OROC President

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason Shorts" <mrcpu23 at yahoo.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction



Hi,

I am new to rocketry and want to learn more and get involved in learning 
more and was wondering if there are any good web sites and/or places to go 
to learn more so I can work towards my L1 certification. I have received my 
NAR/TRA cards and live in the Portland, Oregon area.

Thank you in advance and hope to hear back from you soon... :)

Jason...
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From melamy at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 20 16:13:30 2009
From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:13:30 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
Message-ID: <14537225.1253488411088.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I use a Keystone metal 9 volt battery holder...

http://www.keyelco.com/products/specs/spec184.asp

I leave room underneath the holder to run a tie wrap around it and the battery to secure the battery in place.

best regards, Steve Thatcher

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>Sent: Sep 20, 2009 11:56 AM
>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
>
>Rebuilding the HEI module for the coaxial motor and was wondering where  
>everybody gets those aluminum battery holders for  9V.
> 
>Mike F.
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From fred at azinger.com  Sun Sep 20 16:34:44 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:34:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Finocyl Image posted.
Message-ID: <006b01ca3a4a$ef45a430$cdd0ec90$@com>

I posted an image I shot today during our static test of the Finocyl.

I won't have video until tomorrow.

FredA

 


From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Sun Sep 20 16:59:12 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:59:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
In-Reply-To: <c3d.645792c7.37e7e1be@aol.com>
References: <c3d.645792c7.37e7e1be@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4AB6C1D0.20202@hawkfeather.com>

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/203-P/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsQtlBhqKq43TeRZTLGHpBk
If the URL doesn't work, it's Mouser part #534-203, Mfg Keystone #203P 
(Mouser has it listed as 203P non-stocked, and 203-P stocked, go figger).

You might also consider the Mouser #534-1295, Keystone #1295. Glass 
filled nylon, very rugged and tight on the battery.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Keystone-Electronics/1295/?qs=1rIBfDHV7icJ3ntYV%2fTIdQ%3d%3d

Keystone is pretty widely carried by other electronics distributors.

HTH,
Andrew.

Mfreptiles at aol.com wrote:
 > Nope.  Looking for the one piece aluminum ones with built in  clip. 
I've
 > got some plastic ones, but really need metal for the loading it  is 
going to
 > take.
 >
 > Thanks,
 > Mike
 >
 >
 > In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:14:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
 > raystoner99 at comcast.net writes:
 >
 > The ones  I get are from Radio Shack...but I don't know if they are 
the ones
 > you are  looking  for.
 >
 > http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062220
 >
 > Ray
 >
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Rockets mailing list
 > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 >
 >

From absworld at cet.com  Sun Sep 20 17:10:17 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:10:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch report
Message-ID: <037901ca3a4f$e8944920$b9bcdb60$@com>

I headed out towards Mansfield on Friday under clear skies and with a less
than desirable forecast.  

Arrived around 1600 to find Mayor Tom Snell putting out a fire.  Turns out
he lit it too resulting in a nice sterile area around the pads.

Couple that with a sizeable chunk of mowed grass including a path up to the
little knoll to the east (also the highest point around for miles around)
which provides for excellent tracking, and the welcome mat was out  at
Mansfield?s new Ranch site.

 

Folks trickled in all afternoon and evening.

Conditions were ideal and so it was disappointing not to have an active
waiver.

Forecast was for showers to end by 1100 Saturday but with clear skies, I
opted to gamble on the cot out in the open and was rewarded with crystal
clear skies and a brilliant star field along with a gorgeous sunrise.

Of course that pretty sunrise was really an omen as it was soon spitting
rain.

As promised, the spitting stopped by 1100 and the winds picked up.  We were
teased by ever clearing skies along with an increase in winds.

Launching was sporadic but persistent.

 

By mid afternoon, I?d been prepped long enough and skies clear enough that I
got GO FEVER and loaded my 38mm rocket into the tower.

Push for this flight was a freshly re-certified KOSDON J280.  I found it
interesting that the 5 bates grains slid directly into the case without a
liner.  

Pad weight was 4 lbs 2.4 oz.

The motor came up to pressure nicely and the rocket boosted sharply though
my downrange safety tilt was excessive and the rocket velocity developed a
significant downrange component.

Lost visual track at motor burn out and resorted to RF tracking.  As the
time of flight passed through 60 seconds I felt confident that I had gotten
the fin can off at apogee.  As TOF passed 5 minutes, I began to worry that
maybe the main chute had kicked out on top too.

While I was tracking from camp, Rob Jopson was up that little knoll
monitoring with a second receiver.  Before TOF reached 6 minutes, I was no
longer getting a signal but Robo still had good tone from up on the knoll.
I opted to wuss out and took the truck out for recovery.  That proved to be
a good choice as I drove right by the rocket that Hans Vogel was
unsuccessfully searching for.  I found my rocket fully deployed 1 ? miles
downrange and just 200 yards off the road.  Altimeter was beeping out 8116?.

 

Skies continued to clear and winds continued increasing the point that
launching terminated before the 1900 end of waiver. 

A second clear and brilliant night sky along with a steadily dying breeze
revealed a clear blue sky and calm winds when the sun poked up.

Carl called in the waiver and pads were ready for business by 0800 followed
by steady activity all morning.

I was reminded of the hassles associated with motor eject as I prepped my
38X29 with an H180.  Boost was good to a simulated 5500? and the long RDK-08
delay worked well for timing.

Recovery was nominal.

 

By the time noon arrived, I was mostly packed up and still watching rockets
take to the skies.

I headed out shortly after 1300 and enjoyed the ?shorter? trip (relative to
the Sportsman?s club ;-) east towards home.

Temperatures were very comfortable being warm in the sun, just right in the
shade, and cool overnight.

Carl Hamilton did an excellent job as Launch Director and wore a constant
supportive smile all weekend.

As for Carl and the full moon that I saw midday, well, my eyes are still
burning.

I guess sometimes, binoculars are not a good thing.

 

Bob Yanecek

 


From stevet19759 at comcast.net  Sun Sep 20 18:08:13 2009
From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:08:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
In-Reply-To: <A42D8F33EC774EC289969CE8F8F87DC2@steve>
References: <A42D8F33EC774EC289969CE8F8F87DC2@steve>
Message-ID: <4AB6D1FD.6010801@comcast.net>

You can get both aluminum and plastic holders with built-in contacts 
from Mouser electronics (www.mouser.com).  You'll pay for shipping, but 
  there's no minimum order charge.  Whatever you choose, treat the 
holder as a way to anchor the contacts to the battery, not as a way to 
anchor the battery in the e-bay.  And try to set things up to apply 
continuous pressure to the top of the battery, both to maintain contact 
with the terminals and as a way to stabilize the connections inside the 
battery.

I've learned not to trust the 9V "clip-on" connectors, regardless of 
manufacturer.  The + terminal on the clips doesn't have enough spring 
range to make a reliable connection with some batteries, and the - 
terminal on some batteries doesn't make a reliable connection with the 
clips.  The connection from the clips to the lead wire is also a trouble 
spot.  Most are crimped - but not always in the right spot, or securely 
enough.  Of those that are soldered, I've seen my share of cold and 
cracked solder joints.

Soldering to the battery terminals is possible, but it's very easy to 
damage the battery seals.  It'll probably work the next day, but might 
fail next week or next month.

The manufacturers of battery packs usually spot-weld the terminals and 
tabs, but I haven't seen a reliable and cheap way for hobbyists to do that.

-Steve Tarr


Steve Cutonilli wrote:
> Mike, 
> 
> For high-G flights I highly recommend you de-couple (mechanically)
> battery terminal connections and battery mounting.  
> 
> One way to do this is to connect with standard battery clips (low mass
> relative to spring retention) - RadioShack carries decent clips with
> about 6" fly-leads or better yet solder direct - always use
> fine-stranded wire for best flexibility / reliability and use batteries
> the have welded cell tabs.
> 
> Use JB Weld to anchor the battery down - use aluminum tape separator to
> glue onto - you'll destroy the battery getting it off.
> 
> Battery holders are nice, but the method described above is simpler and
> more robust IMO.
> 
> /Steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 12:51 PM
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
> 
> Those are close, but I could have sworn that I've seen some that have  
> support for the battery at both ends.
>  
> Mike
>  
>  
> In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:48:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
> lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:
> 
> http://www.cmeproducts.com/9voltholders.htm
> 
> How about S49 or  S54?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 


From fred at azinger.com  Sun Sep 20 18:19:17 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:19:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
In-Reply-To: <4AB6D1FD.6010801@comcast.net>
References: <A42D8F33EC774EC289969CE8F8F87DC2@steve>
	<4AB6D1FD.6010801@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00aa01ca3a59$8a9ee550$9fdcaff0$@com>

I solder my wires to the batteries for all high performance flights.
Just need to be fast to avoid un-soldering or overtemping the innards.


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Steve Tarr
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:08 PM
To: Steve Cutonilli
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders

You can get both aluminum and plastic holders with built-in contacts 
from Mouser electronics (www.mouser.com).  You'll pay for shipping, but 
  there's no minimum order charge.  Whatever you choose, treat the 
holder as a way to anchor the contacts to the battery, not as a way to 
anchor the battery in the e-bay.  And try to set things up to apply 
continuous pressure to the top of the battery, both to maintain contact 
with the terminals and as a way to stabilize the connections inside the 
battery.

I've learned not to trust the 9V "clip-on" connectors, regardless of 
manufacturer.  The + terminal on the clips doesn't have enough spring 
range to make a reliable connection with some batteries, and the - 
terminal on some batteries doesn't make a reliable connection with the 
clips.  The connection from the clips to the lead wire is also a trouble 
spot.  Most are crimped - but not always in the right spot, or securely 
enough.  Of those that are soldered, I've seen my share of cold and 
cracked solder joints.

Soldering to the battery terminals is possible, but it's very easy to 
damage the battery seals.  It'll probably work the next day, but might 
fail next week or next month.

The manufacturers of battery packs usually spot-weld the terminals and 
tabs, but I haven't seen a reliable and cheap way for hobbyists to do that.

-Steve Tarr


Steve Cutonilli wrote:
> Mike, 
> 
> For high-G flights I highly recommend you de-couple (mechanically)
> battery terminal connections and battery mounting.  
> 
> One way to do this is to connect with standard battery clips (low mass
> relative to spring retention) - RadioShack carries decent clips with
> about 6" fly-leads or better yet solder direct - always use
> fine-stranded wire for best flexibility / reliability and use batteries
> the have welded cell tabs.
> 
> Use JB Weld to anchor the battery down - use aluminum tape separator to
> glue onto - you'll destroy the battery getting it off.
> 
> Battery holders are nice, but the method described above is simpler and
> more robust IMO.
> 
> /Steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 12:51 PM
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Metal battery holders
> 
> Those are close, but I could have sworn that I've seen some that have  
> support for the battery at both ends.
>  
> Mike
>  
>  
> In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:48:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
> lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:
> 
> http://www.cmeproducts.com/9voltholders.htm
> 
> How about S49 or  S54?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From absworld at cet.com  Sun Sep 20 18:21:24 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:21:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <038a01ca3a59$db2d9b60$9188d220$@com>

Gawd girl, din't U no there was a launch at Mansfield this past weekend?

NOW, I'm focusing on BALLS.
Of course, with a re-enforced fin can and reduced thrust motor makes this a
'doitoproveUcan' trip as opposed to anything theoretically technically
challenging.

I'm in for a 3" airframe w/M-1234 (love that part) OS motor.
Figures' they don't require the >25K' form any more.....don't need one ithis
time around the sun anyway .... danGIT.

Departure this month!
Hopeful arrival midday on October 1'st.

Huntin a funky shirt.
Took funky sh>>t a second ago though ;-)

bobert

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are
you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
(please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Sep 20 18:24:37 2009
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:24:37 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <038a01ca3a59$db2d9b60$9188d220$@com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<038a01ca3a59$db2d9b60$9188d220$@com>
Message-ID: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E347160115A8@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Man it will be great to see you!  Funky shirt is a must!  We should be there on the 1st as well.  :)

Cheers!

Angela Dinese Wright


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:21 PM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Gawd girl, din't U no there was a launch at Mansfield this past weekend?

NOW, I'm focusing on BALLS.
Of course, with a re-enforced fin can and reduced thrust motor makes this a
'doitoproveUcan' trip as opposed to anything theoretically technically
challenging.

I'm in for a 3" airframe w/M-1234 (love that part) OS motor.
Figures' they don't require the >25K' form any more.....don't need one ithis
time around the sun anyway .... danGIT.

Departure this month!
Hopeful arrival midday on October 1'st.

Huntin a funky shirt.
Took funky sh>>t a second ago though ;-)

bobert

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are
you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
(please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Sep 20 18:28:15 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:28:15 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!

http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From angelawr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Sep 20 18:43:17 2009
From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:43:17 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>

OH YEAH BABY!  :)

Angela Dinese Wright


-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Wright
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!

http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From dennys at carnitech.net  Sun Sep 20 19:07:26 2009
From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:07:26 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E3@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>

Makes me happy.... xD  Hard to believe that was just an aluminum tube a few weeks ago.
 
D

________________________________

From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com]
Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 6:28 PM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone



BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!

http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 20:03:39 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:03:39 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>

Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm even 
more bummed to miss this event.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list" 
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


> OH YEAH BABY!  :)
>
> Angela Dinese Wright
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Wright
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
> To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
> BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>
> http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] 
> On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
> To: Rockets NW list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
> SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you 
> flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what 
> are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>
> SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky 
> shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts. 
> (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
>
> Cheers to all!
>
> Angela Dinese Wright
> a.k.a. RED
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From jpr602 at mac.com  Sun Sep 20 20:16:09 2009
From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:16:09 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] brief XPRS report
Message-ID: <9D56BABC-27C0-49E6-81DF-3F94EBE0DFC7@mac.com>

Greetings from beautiful Klamath Falls!

Greg and I met as usual on Thursday morning at the Dairy Queen in  
Pleasant Hill. We talked on our ham radios all the way to XPRS. We had  
a 15-20 minute construction delay on hwy 97 above Klamath Lake and a  
10 minute delay somewhere in Cal.

Friday was clear and windless(!) with a high of around 95. A tiny bit  
of wind would have been appreciated. I flew my old Shadow Composites  
Shock Value (minimum diameter spun carbon fiber) on a J90 to 7692'.

Saturday was moderately windy with a hold on launches for about 2  
hours in the afternoon due to dust. I flew the Shock Value on a K185  
to 12820', winning the Extreme Altitude contest in both the J and K  
classes (although there were higher flights that didn't enter).

Turnout was the lowest I've seen at XPRS (this is my 6th or 7th time  
there). I estimate no more than 200 people there on Saturday. Among  
the most impressive projects was Vern's talking rocket, which flew  
successfully at least twice.

We had 3 very nice moonless evenings with the milky way directly  
overhead. A good number of night launches each evening.

FYI:
Crushed ice (no blocks) is available at the Shell station in Gerlach.
Gas is $3.27 in Gerlach, $3.26 in Alturas, $2.87 in Klamath Falls.
Harold's Frosty in Alturas has darned good burgers.

-- J.P. Roberts

From dennys at carnitech.net  Sun Sep 20 20:16:33 2009
From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:16:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>

Shoot!  We should have thought about that...
 
Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there might be a handful of others as well.

________________________________

From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone



Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm even
more bummed to miss this event.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


> OH YEAH BABY!  :)
>
> Angela Dinese Wright
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Wright
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
> To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
> BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>
> http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
> To: Rockets NW list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
> SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
> flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
> are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>
> SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
> shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
> (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
>
> Cheers to all!
>
> Angela Dinese Wright
> a.k.a. RED
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Sun Sep 20 20:20:31 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:20:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E3@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E3@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
Message-ID: <00e401ca3a6a$7a0e1c90$6e2a55b0$@net>

I will be there with the rest of the dawg pack (except for Lou who will be
in final wedding prep mode).  I plan to fly the rebuild of Lucky Man which
is 98 mm min diameter on an N1636.  Next up is AquaBucks which is the 76 mm
Aqualung fincan boosting the 54 mm Go Bucks IV.  This will be an M993 to
L804 and sims to about 36K.  All will be the Dawg Pack version of OS.

Now I just need to find a funky shirt.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are
you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
(please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 20:36:43 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:36:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
Message-ID: <7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3 aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad to see class 3 is  something we can request and get. 

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Denny Smith 
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list 
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there might be a handful of others as well.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
   


From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Sep 20 20:53:58 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:53:58 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] brief XPRS report
Message-ID: <c8f.4e7e6a62.37e852d6@aol.com>

Yup.  BALLS this year should be huge!  Thanks for the report  JP!
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/20/2009 8:16:43 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jpr602 at mac.com writes:

Turnout  was the lowest I've seen at XPRS (this is my 6th or 7th time  
there).  I estimate no more than 200 people there on Saturday. Among  
the most  impressive projects was Vern's talking rocket, which flew   
successfully at least  twice.



From kent.newman at comcast.net  Sun Sep 20 21:07:35 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:07:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>

Robert,

After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post 

1) a list of waiver application requirements, 

2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
flyers

3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.

The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
process. 

As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-)) 

It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
on.  

IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well. 

Regards,

Kent 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
to see class 3 is  something we can request and get. 

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Denny Smith 
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list 
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
might be a handful of others as well.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From fred at azinger.com  Sun Sep 20 21:28:42 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:28:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>

"including narrative"
What is this part?
A song and dance for the FAA?

I get the 6DOF sim...other sims....but what a load of BS (IMHO) for anything
else....

A quality SIM is ALL that should be required....
Verbage should be brief to non-existent.... It's all about the data.
8 pages should exceed the maximum by 2 to 4X.

None of the FAA's freaking biz what gets flown...as long as it doesn't
violate "their" airspace rules.....


Sorry if you don't like my opinion.
I don't like the rules....

IMHO,
FredA










----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:08 PM
To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Brad Wright';
'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Robert,

After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post 

1) a list of waiver application requirements, 

2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
flyers

3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.

The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
process. 

As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-)) 

It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
on.  

IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well. 

Regards,

Kent 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
to see class 3 is  something we can request and get. 

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Denny Smith 
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list 
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
might be a handful of others as well.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 20 21:32:33 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:32:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
Message-ID: <31646290.1253507553754.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Nice butt shot!

-----Original Message-----
>From: Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
>Sent: Sep 20, 2009 6:28 PM
>To: "Angela \"Red\" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>, Rockets NW list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>
>http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
>To: Rockets NW list
>Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>
>SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
>
>Cheers to all!
>
>Angela Dinese Wright
>a.k.a. RED
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From kent.newman at comcast.net  Sun Sep 20 21:42:01 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:42:01 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
	<00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>
Message-ID: <005401ca3a75$dcc4f380$964eda80$@newman@comcast.net>

Perhaps you may wish to reserve judgment until after everything is posted,
Fred.  But, regardless, so noted :-)  

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:29 PM
To: 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright';
'Brad Wright'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

"including narrative"
What is this part?
A song and dance for the FAA?

I get the 6DOF sim...other sims....but what a load of BS (IMHO) for anything
else....

A quality SIM is ALL that should be required....
Verbage should be brief to non-existent.... It's all about the data.
8 pages should exceed the maximum by 2 to 4X.

None of the FAA's freaking biz what gets flown...as long as it doesn't
violate "their" airspace rules.....


Sorry if you don't like my opinion.
I don't like the rules....

IMHO,
FredA










----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:08 PM
To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Brad Wright';
'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Robert,

After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post 

1) a list of waiver application requirements, 

2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
flyers

3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.

The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
process. 

As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-)) 

It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
on.  

IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well. 

Regards,

Kent 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
to see class 3 is  something we can request and get. 

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Denny Smith 
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list 
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
might be a handful of others as well.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Sep 20 21:54:32 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:54:32 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <31646290.1253507553754.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <31646290.1253507553754.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1D80@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

why thank you!

b
________________________________________
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com [steve-c at ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:32 PM
To: Brad Wright; Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Nice butt shot!

-----Original Message-----
>From: Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
>Sent: Sep 20, 2009 6:28 PM
>To: "Angela \"Red\" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>, Rockets NW list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>
>http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
>To: Rockets NW list
>Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>
>SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
>
>Cheers to all!
>
>Angela Dinese Wright
>a.k.a. RED
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>


From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Sep 20 21:59:20 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:59:20 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>,
	<00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1D9A@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

well given that half your motors blow up fred maybe the faa is wise to you and wants more detail......   I mean with your record I'm surprised TRA hasn't increase the safe distance rules for motor types.

b
________________________________________
From: Fred Azinger [fred at azinger.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:28 PM
To: 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

"including narrative"
What is this part?
A song and dance for the FAA?

I get the 6DOF sim...other sims....but what a load of BS (IMHO) for anything
else....

A quality SIM is ALL that should be required....
Verbage should be brief to non-existent.... It's all about the data.
8 pages should exceed the maximum by 2 to 4X.

None of the FAA's freaking biz what gets flown...as long as it doesn't
violate "their" airspace rules.....


Sorry if you don't like my opinion.
I don't like the rules....

IMHO,
FredA










----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:08 PM
To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Brad Wright';
'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Robert,

After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post

1) a list of waiver application requirements,

2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
flyers

3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.

The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
process.

As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))

It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
on.

IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well.

Regards,

Kent



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Denny Smith
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
might be a handful of others as well.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Sep 20 22:02:41 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 05:02:41 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1D9A@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>,
	<00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>,
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1D9A@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1DAB@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

just to make it perfectly clear

http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/Abuser_BALLS17.htm


________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Brad Wright [bradwr at wrightholdings.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:59 PM
To: Fred Azinger; 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; Angela "Red" Wright; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

well given that half your motors blow up fred maybe the faa is wise to you and wants more detail......   I mean with your record I'm surprised TRA hasn't increase the safe distance rules for motor types.

b
________________________________________
From: Fred Azinger [fred at azinger.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:28 PM
To: 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

"including narrative"
What is this part?
A song and dance for the FAA?

I get the 6DOF sim...other sims....but what a load of BS (IMHO) for anything
else....

A quality SIM is ALL that should be required....
Verbage should be brief to non-existent.... It's all about the data.
8 pages should exceed the maximum by 2 to 4X.

None of the FAA's freaking biz what gets flown...as long as it doesn't
violate "their" airspace rules.....


Sorry if you don't like my opinion.
I don't like the rules....

IMHO,
FredA










----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:08 PM
To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Brad Wright';
'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Robert,

After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post

1) a list of waiver application requirements,

2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
flyers

3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.

The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
process.

As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))

It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
on.

IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well.

Regards,

Kent



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Denny Smith
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
might be a handful of others as well.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From stevet19759 at comcast.net  Sun Sep 20 22:14:00 2009
From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:14:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] USPS Mailing Carton Rocket @ Sheridan
In-Reply-To: <64C0ACA5F2BD41A6A93A3E83044B4AC4@LaptopKrausert>
References: <64C0ACA5F2BD41A6A93A3E83044B4AC4@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <4AB70B98.7070006@comcast.net>

We put it in the trailer, so it's probably at Mark Gholston's house.
-Steve

Robert Krausert wrote:
> Did anyone find a USPS Mailing Rocket while tearing down at Sheridan? Dale accidentally left it behind and hoping someone may have found it.
> 
> If you did, can you write me back and let me know where it went. 
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Members mailing list
> Members at oregonrocketry.org
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members


From steve-c at ix.netcom.com  Sun Sep 20 22:19:55 2009
From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:19:55 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
Message-ID: <1089145.1253510395664.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Good stuff - looking forward to the playa discussion on this topic - kudos to those that jumped the hoops and are paving the way for others.  /Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: Kent Newman <kent.newman at comcast.net>
>Sent: Sep 20, 2009 9:07 PM
>To: 'Robert Krausert' <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>, 'Denny Smith' <dennys at carnitech.net>, "'Angela \"Red\" Wright'" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>, 'Brad Wright' <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>, 'Rockets NW list' <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
>
>Robert,
>
>After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
>3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post 
>
>1) a list of waiver application requirements, 
>
>2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
>flyers
>
>3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
>narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.
>
>The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
>throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
>be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
>Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
>Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
>process. 
>
>As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
>than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-)) 
>
>It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
>mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
>flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
>on.  
>
>IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
>Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
>3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well. 
>
>Regards,
>
>Kent 
>
> 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
>Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
>To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
>easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
>aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
>to see class 3 is  something we can request and get. 
>
>Cheers,
>Robert
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Denny Smith 
>  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list 
>  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
>  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...
>
>  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
>might be a handful of others as well.
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>
>  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
>  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
>  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
>even
>  more bummed to miss this event.
>
>  Cheers,
>  Robert
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
>  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
>  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
>  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
>  >
>  > Angela Dinese Wright
>  >
>  >
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: Brad Wright
>  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
>  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
>  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>  >
>  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>  >
>  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
>  > To: Rockets NW list
>  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>  >
>  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
>  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
>  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>  >
>  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
>funky
>  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
>  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
>  >
>  > Cheers to all!
>  >
>  > Angela Dinese Wright
>  > a.k.a. RED
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Rockets mailing list
>  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Rockets mailing list
>  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  >
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Rockets mailing list
>  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 22:37:40 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:37:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert><4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local><7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>,
	<00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1D9A@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <A53823D1EEE547D78F30B839845F9671@LaptopKrausert>

Half? What math are you using? You might be bone picking with Fred, and 
sorry. But I've seen Fred's motors fly many-o-times without issue. Have a 
great time folks. Fred's motor are not ones I'd worry about.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
To: "Fred Azinger" <fred at azinger.com>; "'Kent Newman'" 
<kent.newman at comcast.net>; "'Robert Krausert'" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>; 
"'Denny Smith'" <dennys at carnitech.net>; "Angela "Red" Wright" 
<angelawr at wrightholdings.com>; "'Rockets NW list'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects


well given that half your motors blow up fred maybe the faa is wise to you 
and wants more detail......   I mean with your record I'm surprised TRA 
hasn't increase the safe distance rules for motor types.

b
________________________________________
From: Fred Azinger [fred at azinger.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:28 PM
To: 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; Angela "Red" Wright; 
Brad Wright; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

"including narrative"
What is this part?
A song and dance for the FAA?

I get the 6DOF sim...other sims....but what a load of BS (IMHO) for anything
else....

A quality SIM is ALL that should be required....
Verbage should be brief to non-existent.... It's all about the data.
8 pages should exceed the maximum by 2 to 4X.

None of the FAA's freaking biz what gets flown...as long as it doesn't
violate "their" airspace rules.....


Sorry if you don't like my opinion.
I don't like the rules....

IMHO,
FredA










----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:08 PM
To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Brad Wright';
'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Robert,

After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post

1) a list of waiver application requirements,

2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
flyers

3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.

The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
process.

As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))

It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
on.

IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well.

Regards,

Kent



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Denny Smith
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
might be a handful of others as well.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sun Sep 20 23:04:31 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Found; AIM 97A Rocket
In-Reply-To: <3190216832984FE48E4221D54699E742@LaptopKrausert>
References: <3190216832984FE48E4221D54699E742@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <0dc1d6ace53fa5a77e2bd90bab5aedff.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

That would very likely be the guy who was parked next to me at Sheridan in
the camper on a large pickup.  Sorry, I don't recall his name.  He said
they were driving around the NW and I'm pretty sure he said he'd be at
Brothers in October.  So he may not be on the list but ping him on the PA
at Rocketober.
+McG+


> If you flew an AIM 97A rocket at Sheridan and couldn't find it, the rocket
> was found. It landed on the neighbors land and they returned it during
> tear down Sunday.
>
> Thank Dave Armstrong. He photographed it. It's now in the trailer. Let me
> know if it's yours.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From fred at azinger.com  Sun Sep 20 23:07:10 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:07:10 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <005401ca3a75$dcc4f380$964eda80$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
	<00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>
	<005401ca3a75$dcc4f380$964eda80$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000001ca3a81$c1eeb800$45cc2800$@com>

Excuse me for not being shy and speaking my mind.............unlike most.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Newman [mailto:kent.newman at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:42 PM
To: 'Fred Azinger'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright';
'Brad Wright'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Perhaps you may wish to reserve judgment until after everything is posted,
Fred.  But, regardless, so noted :-)  

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:29 PM
To: 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright';
'Brad Wright'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

"including narrative"
What is this part?
A song and dance for the FAA?

I get the 6DOF sim...other sims....but what a load of BS (IMHO) for anything
else....

A quality SIM is ALL that should be required....
Verbage should be brief to non-existent.... It's all about the data.
8 pages should exceed the maximum by 2 to 4X.

None of the FAA's freaking biz what gets flown...as long as it doesn't
violate "their" airspace rules.....


Sorry if you don't like my opinion.
I don't like the rules....

IMHO,
FredA










----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:08 PM
To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Brad Wright';
'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Robert,

After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post 

1) a list of waiver application requirements, 

2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
flyers

3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.

The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
process. 

As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-)) 

It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
on.  

IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well. 

Regards,

Kent 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
to see class 3 is  something we can request and get. 

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Denny Smith 
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list 
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
might be a handful of others as well.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From kent.newman at comcast.net  Sun Sep 20 23:12:24 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:12:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <000001ca3a81$c1eeb800$45cc2800$@com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
	<00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>
	<005401ca3a75$dcc4f380$964eda80$@newman@comcast.net>
	<000001ca3a81$c1eeb800$45cc2800$@com>
Message-ID: <000301ca3a82$7d4c1ca0$77e455e0$@newman@comcast.net>

Not necessary to ask to be excused, Fred, and many know your passion to
speak to your beliefs.

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:07 PM
To: 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright';
'Brad Wright'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Excuse me for not being shy and speaking my mind.............unlike most.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Newman [mailto:kent.newman at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:42 PM
To: 'Fred Azinger'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright';
'Brad Wright'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Perhaps you may wish to reserve judgment until after everything is posted,
Fred.  But, regardless, so noted :-)  

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:29 PM
To: 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright';
'Brad Wright'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

"including narrative"
What is this part?
A song and dance for the FAA?

I get the 6DOF sim...other sims....but what a load of BS (IMHO) for anything
else....

A quality SIM is ALL that should be required....
Verbage should be brief to non-existent.... It's all about the data.
8 pages should exceed the maximum by 2 to 4X.

None of the FAA's freaking biz what gets flown...as long as it doesn't
violate "their" airspace rules.....


Sorry if you don't like my opinion.
I don't like the rules....

IMHO,
FredA










----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:08 PM
To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Brad Wright';
'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Robert,

After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post 

1) a list of waiver application requirements, 

2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
flyers

3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.

The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
process. 

As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-)) 

It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
on.  

IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well. 

Regards,

Kent 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
to see class 3 is  something we can request and get. 

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Denny Smith 
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list 
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
might be a handful of others as well.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From keithp at keithp.com  Sun Sep 20 23:31:47 2009
From: keithp at keithp.com (Keith Packard)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:31:47 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Want to buy: a 2' piece of 54mm phenolic
Message-ID: <1253514508-sup-1324@keithp.com>


A friend was carrying a 2' piece of 54mm phenolic on the MAX today and
left it behind. The suggestion that we call Tri-Met and let them know
that 'rocket components' were missing and hope that their explosives
squad would track it down was deemed a bit dangerous, so I'm left
without a motor mount for an airframe I'm trying to build this week.

If anyone in Portland happens to have a spare piece they'd be willing
to sell, please let me know.

keithp at keithp.com
-- 
keith.packard at intel.com

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sun Sep 20 23:32:58 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:32:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
In-Reply-To: <cc4.58bfc18f.37e7e119@aol.com>
References: <cc4.58bfc18f.37e7e119@aol.com>
Message-ID: <560c099b25cccd53cb6e20d850dfa228.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Mike Fisher, OROC's own high priest of research rocketry!

You're the best kind of rocketeer Mike: Totally ingeniously nuts and able
to make it all work.  :)
+McG+


> Brought this back to the NW list in case others were wondering what the
> heck a coaxial motor is.
>
> Yes.  The M uses my fastest formula which makes the core and  nozzle
> throat
> large enough to fit a 38mm motor and recovery gear inside  it.  The 38mm
> has to have enough thrust to lift the heavy M and rocket  though, thus the
> 36"
> long 38mm casing used.  I've flown the K for many  years, the M got tested
> last season in Jack Caynon's rocket.  Both motors  work, it's just the
> interface I had trouble with last year.  Both motors  were developed
> separately
> with this end goal in mind.
>
> The K2000 motor with recovery gear gets ejected at burn out, then the
> M8000
>  gets lit three seconds later via head end ignition.
>
> I have high confidence it will work this time.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:36:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:
>
> Hi  Mike,
> Is this the one  you mentioned to me at a launch awhile  back   where the
> smaller motor fits inside the nozzle/core of the  larger  second motor.?
> Your super fast EX formula(s) making this  possible ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Dustin
>
> I went off-list but feel  free to take reply back on-list, if you  want.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> From:  Mfreptiles at aol.com
>
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
> Subject: Re:  [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
> Message-ID:  <d58.4923024b.37e6eeb0 at aol.com
>>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="US-ASCII"
>
> 38mm L in all aluminum Mr. Scary.  And a 75mm  Coaxial dual thrust  K2000
> to
> M8000 in a single stage.  I'm  almost finished building the central
> motor's
> ejection canister.   More mixing and packing to go.
>
> Mike  F.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sun Sep 20 23:39:28 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <254776.26796.qm@web52401.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <254776.26796.qm@web52401.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6738d651dd8e7ee5cfc18b20df2e040d.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Go to
www.info-central.org

+McG+

>
> Hi,
> ?
> I am new to rocketry and want to learn more and get involved in learning
> more and was wondering if there are any good web sites and/or places to go
> to learn more so I can work towards my L1 certification. I have received
> my NAR/TRA cards and live in the Portland, Oregon area.
> ?
> Thank you in advance and hope to hear back from you soon... :)
> ?
> Jason...
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sun Sep 20 23:50:42 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <cd5ec082079670f4f1ef3930ccb4dcde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Is there an official, final version of the new FAA regs available?  I
still have only the 'revisions list' version which is a bit hard to
understand.

And thanks to all who worked to streamline what originally looked like a
truly daunting process for class 3 waivers.  Even if Fred A. and I both
wish it were just a one-line "I'm gonna launch a honkin' big/sophisticated
rocket and promise not to hit anyone" form.  ;-)

+McG+


> Robert,
>
> After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA
> Class
> 3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post
>
> 1) a list of waiver application requirements,
>
> 2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
> flyers
>
> 3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
> narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.
>
> The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
> throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template
> to
> be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for
> same.
> Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
> Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
> process.
>
> As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long,
> less
> than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))
>
> It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
> mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications
> and
> flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
> on.
>
> IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
> Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional
> Class
> 3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kent
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
> To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
> Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2
> was
> easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
> aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But
> glad
> to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Denny Smith
>   To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW
> list
>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
>   Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   Shoot!  We should have thought about that...
>
>   Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing
> there
> might be a handful of others as well.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>   From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
>   Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
>   To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
> even
>   more bummed to miss this event.
>
>   Cheers,
>   Robert
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
>   To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
>   <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
>   >
>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>   >
>   >
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: Brad Wright
>   > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
>   > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
>   > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>   >
>   > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>   >
>   > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>   > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>   > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
>   > To: Rockets NW list
>   > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>   >
>   > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are
> you
>   > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and
> what
>   > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>   >
>   > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
> funky
>   > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
>   > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)
> :)
>   >
>   > Cheers to all!
>   >
>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>   > a.k.a. RED
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Rockets mailing list
>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Rockets mailing list
>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   >
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Rockets mailing list
>   Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From rbraibish at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 01:07:11 2009
From: rbraibish at yahoo.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Balls or Bust...
Message-ID: <503769.98366.qm@web43513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

So, I have been doing this HPR thing for a little over a year now and it is about all I can think about.? It did not take long to learn that Black Rock is where the really big stuff happens and?ever since I saw Steve Jurvetson's TED talk I have wanted to?find my way there.? 
My son shares my obsession er... passion... and?we had been planing to go to XPRS this year but unfortunately had scheduling "issues" so now I am considering Balls (I have confirmed that he meets the age "requirements").?
We would "just" be spectators and, quite honestly I am a little leery about the costs (especially the gas).? I would like to find someone who I and my son could get a ride with.? We would of course contribute to travel costs, and provide our own accommodations etc. on the playa.??We live in the mid-Willamette Valley near Salem but would be willing to drive somewhere to meet you (PDX, maybe Bend).? We?pack light and would be most likely?be there?Friday, Saturday and Sunday (we could be convinced otherwise if it was a deal-breaker).? I would be willing to share driving duties or perhaps help in some other (legal)?way.? 
Is anybody out there considering going and having someone help defray the travel expense would make the difference? Or, already planning to go and have enough room for two more?? If it helps I have a small trailer (4x8) that I would be happy to offer?if that would make room for us.? I am not absolutely sure we will be going but I don't want to wait to ask since the date is quickly approaching.? Just chumming the waters I guess...any bites?? Thanks for considering...

Robert B.


      

From kent.newman at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 06:28:44 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:28:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <cd5ec082079670f4f1ef3930ccb4dcde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
	<cd5ec082079670f4f1ef3930ccb4dcde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <000001ca3abf$71f38630$55da9290$@newman@comcast.net>

Sure, Ken.  101.21 through 101.29 is to be found here:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=6cc75dcf9d2970d4f36
5815d0338a445&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14

101.29 details information requirements.

I understand Fred's frustration.  I should hope that it come as no surprise
that all, I repeat, all fliers would prefer to avoid any waiver applications
at any time, at any place, for anyone, for any flight :-)  Now, barring that
happening anytime soon, this is a pretty good compromise to what might have
become a commercial spaceflight application process.  That is to the credit
of TRA, the TRA Class 3 Review Committee and the FAA/AST.  

And, as time goes on, the process may be reduced and improved upon even
further as confidence in Tripoli to be a "quality control hub" increases.

Regards,

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:51 PM
To: Kent Newman
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Is there an official, final version of the new FAA regs available?  I
still have only the 'revisions list' version which is a bit hard to
understand.

And thanks to all who worked to streamline what originally looked like a
truly daunting process for class 3 waivers.  Even if Fred A. and I both
wish it were just a one-line "I'm gonna launch a honkin' big/sophisticated
rocket and promise not to hit anyone" form.  ;-)

+McG+


> Robert,
>
> After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA
> Class
> 3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post
>
> 1) a list of waiver application requirements,
>
> 2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
> flyers
>
> 3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
> narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.
>
> The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
> throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template
> to
> be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for
> same.
> Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
> Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
> process.
>
> As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long,
> less
> than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))
>
> It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
> mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications
> and
> flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
> on.
>
> IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
> Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional
> Class
> 3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kent
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
> To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
> Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2
> was
> easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
> aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But
> glad
> to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Denny Smith
>   To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW
> list
>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
>   Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   Shoot!  We should have thought about that...
>
>   Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing
> there
> might be a handful of others as well.
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>   From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
>   Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
>   To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
> even
>   more bummed to miss this event.
>
>   Cheers,
>   Robert
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
>   To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
>   <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
>   >
>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>   >
>   >
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: Brad Wright
>   > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
>   > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
>   > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>   >
>   > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>   >
>   > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>   > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>   > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
>   > To: Rockets NW list
>   > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>   >
>   > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are
> you
>   > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and
> what
>   > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>   >
>   > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
> funky
>   > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
>   > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)
> :)
>   >
>   > Cheers to all!
>   >
>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>   > a.k.a. RED
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Rockets mailing list
>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Rockets mailing list
>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   >
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Rockets mailing list
>   Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Sep 21 06:39:36 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:39:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
In-Reply-To: <cc4.58bfc18f.37e7e119@aol.com>
References: <cc4.58bfc18f.37e7e119@aol.com>
Message-ID: <029601ca3ac0$f6c0e910$e442bb30$@com>

That's a truly unique approach!  Love it!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 12:49 PM
> To: brodwcjj at integrity.com
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
> 
> Brought this back to the NW list in case others were wondering what the
> heck a coaxial motor is.
> 
> Yes.  The M uses my fastest formula which makes the core and  nozzle
throat
> large enough to fit a 38mm motor and recovery gear inside  it.  The 38mm
> has to have enough thrust to lift the heavy M and rocket  though, thus the
36"
> long 38mm casing used.  I've flown the K for many  years, the M got tested
> last season in Jack Caynon's rocket.  Both motors  work, it's just the
> interface I had trouble with last year.  Both motors  were developed
> separately
> with this end goal in mind.
> 
> The K2000 motor with recovery gear gets ejected at burn out, then the
M8000
>  gets lit three seconds later via head end ignition.
> 
> I have high confidence it will work this time.
> 
> Mike F.
> 
> 
> In a message dated 9/20/2009 12:36:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:
> 
> Hi  Mike,
> Is this the one  you mentioned to me at a launch awhile  back   where the
> smaller motor fits inside the nozzle/core of the  larger  second motor.?
> Your super fast EX formula(s) making this  possible ?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Dustin
> 
> I went off-list but feel  free to take reply back on-list, if you  want.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> From:  Mfreptiles at aol.com
> 
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> 
> Subject: Re:  [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
> Message-ID:  <d58.4923024b.37e6eeb0 at aol.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> 38mm L in all aluminum Mr. Scary.  And a 75mm  Coaxial dual thrust  K2000
to
> M8000 in a single stage.  I'm  almost finished building the central
motor's
> ejection canister.   More mixing and packing to go.
> 
> Mike  F.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From absworld at cet.com  Mon Sep 21 08:31:37 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:31:37 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1DAB@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>,
	<00c901ca3a74$00572950$01057bf0$@com>,
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1D9A@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1DAB@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <041d01ca3ad0$9c78c710$d56a5530$@com>

Note to self:

Do not get in a rock-it battle with brad or fred.
I know there's some unfortunate video of me and mine out there lurking.
Might well be more in a couple weeks but I sure hope not.

Hard hat is on but I can't find my flak jacket.

I'm wishing good pushes for all followed by a stiff set of fins in case the
push is too good (my demon from last year).

T-9 days till departure, then I'll be in 'wed mode' where I'm along for the
'better or worse' ride.
In two weeks we'll know the REST of the story.

Bob Yanecek



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Brad Wright
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:03 PM
To: Brad Wright; Fred Azinger; 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny
Smith'; Angela "Red" Wright; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

just to make it perfectly clear

http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/Abuser_BALLS17.htm


________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on
behalf of Brad Wright [bradwr at wrightholdings.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:59 PM
To: Fred Azinger; 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; Angela
"Red" Wright; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

well given that half your motors blow up fred maybe the faa is wise to you
and wants more detail......   I mean with your record I'm surprised TRA
hasn't increase the safe distance rules for motor types.

b
________________________________________
From: Fred Azinger [fred at azinger.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:28 PM
To: 'Kent Newman'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; Angela "Red" Wright;
Brad Wright; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

"including narrative"
What is this part?
A song and dance for the FAA?

I get the 6DOF sim...other sims....but what a load of BS (IMHO) for anything
else....

A quality SIM is ALL that should be required....
Verbage should be brief to non-existent.... It's all about the data.
8 pages should exceed the maximum by 2 to 4X.

None of the FAA's freaking biz what gets flown...as long as it doesn't
violate "their" airspace rules.....


Sorry if you don't like my opinion.
I don't like the rules....

IMHO,
FredA










----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:08 PM
To: 'Robert Krausert'; 'Denny Smith'; 'Angela "Red" Wright'; 'Brad Wright';
'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Robert,

After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA Class
3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post

1) a list of waiver application requirements,

2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
flyers

3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.

The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template to
be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for same.
Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
process.

As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long, less
than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))

It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications and
flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
on.

IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional Class
3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well.

Regards,

Kent



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2 was
easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But glad
to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Denny Smith
  To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW list
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Shoot!  We should have thought about that...

  Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing there
might be a handful of others as well.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
  Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
  To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
even
  more bummed to miss this event.

  Cheers,
  Robert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
  To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
  Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone


  > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Brad Wright
  > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
  > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
  > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
  >
  > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
  > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
  > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
  > To: Rockets NW list
  > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
  >
  > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you
  > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what
  > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
  >
  > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
funky
  > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
  > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)
  >
  > Cheers to all!
  >
  > Angela Dinese Wright
  > a.k.a. RED
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >
  > _______________________________________________
  > Rockets mailing list
  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  >

  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 09:04:24 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:04:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] propellant didn't ignite?
In-Reply-To: <4AB64640.7030104@earthlink.net>
References: <4AB64640.7030104@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909210904u54bc5b86t54ac42771dae42ca@mail.gmail.com>

Those guys are lucky that they program missiles not to arm until a preset
velocity or range has been reached.  That could have been a big booboo.

On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Hammer
<hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>wrote:

>
> http://www.break.com/index/french_military_test_fires_anti_tank_missile.html
>
> Looks like this French anti-tank missile didn't ignite in this video.
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From Simpsonclark at aol.com  Mon Sep 21 09:19:01 2009
From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:19:01 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield report
Message-ID: <bbf.59a21226.37e90175@aol.com>

Thanks Carl and everyone for the organization,  and special thanks to  Tom 
Snell for the use of the land and the site prep.  My first time at the  
ranch... its a great place to fly.  
Weather worked out fine for me, since I flew my usual one flight, this time 
 a first flight on my minimum 38mm airframe.  It weighed 600g at the pad  
with an H123W in it.  The sim was 7700' and it made 7570' according to  the 
missileworks altimeter.  It was also the first flight for the tracker,  a 1/2 
watt uhf beacon I made to fit in the 38mm OD body tube.  Good  thing it 
worked, since it took foreveeeeeeer to float down on what I  thought was a 
not-too-big 18" chute.  Chute was still too small for me to  see, but the 
(barely) younger eyes of Bob Y. had a visual line for me to  back up the tracker.  
A two mile round trip later, it was back in  camp.
Cogratulations to the certs and condolences to those few unfortunates  who 
had the oh-craptacular flights. 
-Robert

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 09:56:34 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:56:34 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909210956o66e791a0x37c3c87caddd2288@mail.gmail.com>

I am having trouble finding baffles in Rocksim.  I need a baffle that fits
the 3.9 coupler to make a rear ejection section on my sim.  Anyone have any
Ideas?

From carl at mousetrap.com  Mon Sep 21 10:01:36 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:01:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch report
In-Reply-To: <037901ca3a4f$e8944920$b9bcdb60$@com>
References: <037901ca3a4f$e8944920$b9bcdb60$@com>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909211001j7cfdb2ecj57ff8bf4277969c1@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Bob & Ann Yanecek <absworld at cet.com> wrote:

> As for Carl and the full moon that I saw midday, well, my eyes are still
> burning.
>
> I guess sometimes, binoculars are not a good thing.
>

That's what you get when you tell a rule-follower what it takes to "make it
count".

From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 10:24:00 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (raystoner99 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:24:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909210956o66e791a0x37c3c87caddd2288@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1666234515.3555201253553840454.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Model it as a bulkhead and build it like this 
http://www.info-central.org/?article=133 

Ray 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com> 
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:56:34 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim? 

I am having trouble finding baffles in Rocksim. I need a baffle that fits 
the 3.9 coupler to make a rear ejection section on my sim. Anyone have any 
Ideas? 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 10:41:42 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:41:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Uploaded a few Project pic updates.
Message-ID: <e83b26700909211041i7f4aea28w5d9b83ef49e04bf2@mail.gmail.com>

http://northwestrocketry.com/uploads/HPIM4165.JPG<http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/HPIM4165.JPG>
This is a project for an L2 attempt at the up coming Brothers Rocketober
2009

http://northwestrocketry.com/uploads/HPIM4167.JPG<http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/HPIM4167.JPG>
This is another view of my project for an L2 attempt at the up coming
Brothers Rocketober 2009

http://northwestrocketry.com/uploads/HPIM4162.JPG<http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/HPIM4162.JPG>
My UFO project for night flights.

http://northwestrocketry.com/uploads/HPIM4164.JPG<http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/HPIM4164.JPG>
My UFO project for night flights in the dark.

From bigrockets at verizon.net  Mon Sep 21 10:33:21 2009
From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:33:21 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <000001ca3abf$71f38630$55da9290$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
	<cd5ec082079670f4f1ef3930ccb4dcde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<000001ca3abf$71f38630$55da9290$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001001ca3ae1$9e11f4f0$da35ded0$@net>

Thanks for the link Kent. I just looked at it. Looks like the FAA doesn't
like balloons much either? I was told that balloons have the right of way
over pretty much everything else in the air except birds?

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:29 AM
To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Sure, Ken.  101.21 through 101.29 is to be found here:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=6cc75dcf9d2970d4f36
5815d0338a445&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14

101.29 details information requirements.

I understand Fred's frustration.  I should hope that it come as no surprise
that all, I repeat, all fliers would prefer to avoid any waiver applications
at any time, at any place, for anyone, for any flight :-)  Now, barring that
happening anytime soon, this is a pretty good compromise to what might have
become a commercial spaceflight application process.  That is to the credit
of TRA, the TRA Class 3 Review Committee and the FAA/AST.  

And, as time goes on, the process may be reduced and improved upon even
further as confidence in Tripoli to be a "quality control hub" increases.

Regards,

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:51 PM
To: Kent Newman
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Is there an official, final version of the new FAA regs available?  I
still have only the 'revisions list' version which is a bit hard to
understand.

And thanks to all who worked to streamline what originally looked like a
truly daunting process for class 3 waivers.  Even if Fred A. and I both
wish it were just a one-line "I'm gonna launch a honkin' big/sophisticated
rocket and promise not to hit anyone" form.  ;-)

+McG+


> Robert,
>
> After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA
> Class
> 3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post
>
> 1) a list of waiver application requirements,
>
> 2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
> flyers
>
> 3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
> narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.
>
> The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
> throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template
> to
> be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for
> same.
> Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
> Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
> process.
>
> As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long,
> less
> than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))
>
> It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
> mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications
> and
> flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
> on.
>
> IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
> Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional
> Class
> 3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kent
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
> To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
> Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2
> was
> easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
> aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But
> glad
> to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Denny Smith
>   To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW
> list
>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
>   Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   Shoot!  We should have thought about that...
>
>   Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing
> there
> might be a handful of others as well.
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>   From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
>   Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
>   To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
> even
>   more bummed to miss this event.
>
>   Cheers,
>   Robert
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
>   To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
>   <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
>   >
>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>   >
>   >
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: Brad Wright
>   > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
>   > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
>   > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>   >
>   > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>   >
>   > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>   > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>   > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
>   > To: Rockets NW list
>   > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>   >
>   > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are
> you
>   > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and
> what
>   > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>   >
>   > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
> funky
>   > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
>   > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)
> :)
>   >
>   > Cheers to all!
>   >
>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>   > a.k.a. RED
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Rockets mailing list
>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Rockets mailing list
>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   >
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Rockets mailing list
>   Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 10:24:11 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:24:11 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909210956o66e791a0x37c3c87caddd2288@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909210956o66e791a0x37c3c87caddd2288@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01ca3ae0$576877f0$063967d0$@net>

A baffle is nothing more than one or more bulkheads with holes in them that
are held together with a central rod or coupler tubes.  Sometimes they are
stuffed with coarse steel wool or something.  You can create your own design
in RockSim.  Or you can skip the baffle and use a Kevlar wrap like most HPR
fliers.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:57 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim?

I am having trouble finding baffles in Rocksim.  I need a baffle that fits
the 3.9 coupler to make a rear ejection section on my sim.  Anyone have any
Ideas?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Mon Sep 21 11:10:18 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:10:18 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch report
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0909211001j7cfdb2ecj57ff8bf4277969c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <037901ca3a4f$e8944920$b9bcdb60$@com>,
	<e068dfbd0909211001j7cfdb2ecj57ff8bf4277969c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A32F4@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Carl - you've got quite a trend going of loosing your pants at launches......   kinda disturbing ;)



________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Hamilton [carl at mousetrap.com]
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Bob & Ann Yanecek
Cc: Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch report

On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Bob & Ann Yanecek <absworld at cet.com> wrote:

> As for Carl and the full moon that I saw midday, well, my eyes are still
> burning.
>
> I guess sometimes, binoculars are not a good thing.
>

That's what you get when you tell a rule-follower what it takes to "make it
count".
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 10:36:51 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:36:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim?
In-Reply-To: <008c01ca3ae0$576877f0$063967d0$@net>
References: <e83b26700909210956o66e791a0x37c3c87caddd2288@mail.gmail.com>
	<008c01ca3ae0$576877f0$063967d0$@net>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909211036u485c9e31s401c27015d46b286@mail.gmail.com>

I was asking how to create a Baffle within Rocksim.  I do know how it work
how to make one and other tricks just need to know how to get one in Rocksim
to do a proper simulation.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Marty Weiser <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>wrote:

> A baffle is nothing more than one or more bulkheads with holes in them that
> are held together with a central rod or coupler tubes.  Sometimes they are
> stuffed with coarse steel wool or something.  You can create your own
> design
> in RockSim.  Or you can skip the baffle and use a Kevlar wrap like most HPR
> fliers.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:57 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim?
>
> I am having trouble finding baffles in Rocksim.  I need a baffle that fits
> the 3.9 coupler to make a rear ejection section on my sim.  Anyone have any
> Ideas?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Mon Sep 21 12:31:19 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:31:19 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909211036u485c9e31s401c27015d46b286@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909210956o66e791a0x37c3c87caddd2288@mail.gmail.com><008c01ca3ae0$576877f0$063967d0$@net>
	<e83b26700909211036u485c9e31s401c27015d46b286@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB32@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

The easiest thing to do is figure out how heavy the components of the
baffle are and put a "mass object" that you name "baffle" at that
location.

Internal components only matter insofar as they contribute to the CM of
the rocket.  Once you have that taken care of, there is no need
whatsoever to obsess further about them.

Best of luck with your sims... 


Peter Schurke
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
1819 N 135th St
Seattle, WA  98133

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:37 AM
To: Marty Weiser
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim?

I was asking how to create a Baffle within Rocksim.  I do know how it
work how to make one and other tricks just need to know how to get one
in Rocksim to do a proper simulation.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Marty Weiser
<MartyWeiser at comcast.net>wrote:

> A baffle is nothing more than one or more bulkheads with holes in them

> that are held together with a central rod or coupler tubes.  Sometimes

> they are stuffed with coarse steel wool or something.  You can create 
> your own design in RockSim.  Or you can skip the baffle and use a 
> Kevlar wrap like most HPR fliers.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:57 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Baffles in Rocksim?
>
> I am having trouble finding baffles in Rocksim.  I need a baffle that 
> fits the 3.9 coupler to make a rear ejection section on my sim.  
> Anyone have any Ideas?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Mon Sep 21 12:51:42 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:51:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch report
In-Reply-To: <037901ca3a4f$e8944920$b9bcdb60$@com>
References: <037901ca3a4f$e8944920$b9bcdb60$@com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DB35@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

My students packed up and set off (without me) at 5:30 am on Saturday for a fun weekend on the Snell Ranch.

The report they have given me is that Liza M.'s L1 flight went flawlessly, and that she passed her L2 exam (Carl...I should have asked whether you were bringing the new or old version...Liza had studied for the old one!). 

Unfortunately, I also got the report that her rocket shredded during her L2 attempt.  :-(

Nearest I can guess from interpreting their reports and examining what parts they were able to find and bring back, it looks to me like her rocket spent too much time flirting with the Mach barrier and shook itself apart--Wimpy thin plywood fins and a LOC Kraft tube will do that... 

She was down to the wire finishing her build all week, and never did get around to answering my question "have you simulated it?".  A quick sim or two to see if it would be in danger of Mach effects and/or paying attention to the kit instructions that said a J90 was the largest advisable motor on which to fly the vehicle (as opposed to the J460 she ACTUALLY stuck in it...) might have saved her the trauma of watching all her hard work literally tear itself apart.

The good news is that the kids learned some valuable lessons about materials strength for their NASA SLI project, and Liza is already fired up to build a more robust vehicle to make a second attempt at L2 in October.

I am told that all their other flights went well, and that they had a great time.  Thanks go out to Carl for taking them under his wing, and the guys at PSP who are always fantastic with my students!  Anyone else who interacted with/helped them out, please accept my thanks as well...I just don't know who else to specify.

Peter Schurke 
Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor 
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy 
Ingraham High School 
1819 N 135th St 
Seattle, WA  98133 


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob & Ann Yanecek
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:10 PM
To: 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch report

I headed out towards Mansfield on Friday under clear skies and with a less than desirable forecast. 

Arrived around 1600 to find Mayor Tom Snell putting out a fire.  Turns out he lit it too resulting in a nice sterile area around the pads.

Couple that with a sizeable chunk of mowed grass including a path up to the little knoll to the east (also the highest point around for miles around) which provides for excellent tracking, and the welcome mat was out  at Mansfield's new Ranch site.



Folks trickled in all afternoon and evening.

Conditions were ideal and so it was disappointing not to have an active waiver.

Forecast was for showers to end by 1100 Saturday but with clear skies, I opted to gamble on the cot out in the open and was rewarded with crystal clear skies and a brilliant star field along with a gorgeous sunrise.

Of course that pretty sunrise was really an omen as it was soon spitting rain.

As promised, the spitting stopped by 1100 and the winds picked up.  We were teased by ever clearing skies along with an increase in winds.

Launching was sporadic but persistent.



By mid afternoon, I'd been prepped long enough and skies clear enough that I got GO FEVER and loaded my 38mm rocket into the tower.

Push for this flight was a freshly re-certified KOSDON J280.  I found it interesting that the 5 bates grains slid directly into the case without a liner. 

Pad weight was 4 lbs 2.4 oz.

The motor came up to pressure nicely and the rocket boosted sharply though my downrange safety tilt was excessive and the rocket velocity developed a significant downrange component.

Lost visual track at motor burn out and resorted to RF tracking.  As the time of flight passed through 60 seconds I felt confident that I had gotten the fin can off at apogee.  As TOF passed 5 minutes, I began to worry that maybe the main chute had kicked out on top too.

While I was tracking from camp, Rob Jopson was up that little knoll monitoring with a second receiver.  Before TOF reached 6 minutes, I was no longer getting a signal but Robo still had good tone from up on the knoll.
I opted to wuss out and took the truck out for recovery.  That proved to be a good choice as I drove right by the rocket that Hans Vogel was unsuccessfully searching for.  I found my rocket fully deployed 1 ? miles downrange and just 200 yards off the road.  Altimeter was beeping out 8116'.



Skies continued to clear and winds continued increasing the point that launching terminated before the 1900 end of waiver.

A second clear and brilliant night sky along with a steadily dying breeze revealed a clear blue sky and calm winds when the sun poked up.

Carl called in the waiver and pads were ready for business by 0800 followed by steady activity all morning.

I was reminded of the hassles associated with motor eject as I prepped my
38X29 with an H180.  Boost was good to a simulated 5500' and the long RDK-08 delay worked well for timing.

Recovery was nominal.



By the time noon arrived, I was mostly packed up and still watching rockets take to the skies.

I headed out shortly after 1300 and enjoyed the 'shorter' trip (relative to the Sportsman's club ;-) east towards home.

Temperatures were very comfortable being warm in the sun, just right in the shade, and cool overnight.

Carl Hamilton did an excellent job as Launch Director and wore a constant supportive smile all weekend.

As for Carl and the full moon that I saw midday, well, my eyes are still burning.

I guess sometimes, binoculars are not a good thing.



Bob Yanecek



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From kent.newman at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 13:11:46 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:11:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <001001ca3ae1$9e11f4f0$da35ded0$@net>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>	<cd5ec082079670f4f1ef3930ccb4dcde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>	<000001ca3abf$71f38630$55da9290$@newman@comcast.net>
	<001001ca3ae1$9e11f4f0$da35ded0$@net>
Message-ID: <001d01ca3af7$bf741770$3e5c4650$@newman@comcast.net>

Hmmm, balloons....I haven't the slightest idea but one would think it
difficult to "control" a balloon :-)

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Proffitt
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:33 AM
To: OROC List
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Thanks for the link Kent. I just looked at it. Looks like the FAA doesn't
like balloons much either? I was told that balloons have the right of way
over pretty much everything else in the air except birds?

Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:29 AM
To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Sure, Ken.  101.21 through 101.29 is to be found here:

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=6cc75dcf9d2970d4f36
5815d0338a445&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14

101.29 details information requirements.

I understand Fred's frustration.  I should hope that it come as no surprise
that all, I repeat, all fliers would prefer to avoid any waiver applications
at any time, at any place, for anyone, for any flight :-)  Now, barring that
happening anytime soon, this is a pretty good compromise to what might have
become a commercial spaceflight application process.  That is to the credit
of TRA, the TRA Class 3 Review Committee and the FAA/AST.  

And, as time goes on, the process may be reduced and improved upon even
further as confidence in Tripoli to be a "quality control hub" increases.

Regards,

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:51 PM
To: Kent Newman
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects

Is there an official, final version of the new FAA regs available?  I
still have only the 'revisions list' version which is a bit hard to
understand.

And thanks to all who worked to streamline what originally looked like a
truly daunting process for class 3 waivers.  Even if Fred A. and I both
wish it were just a one-line "I'm gonna launch a honkin' big/sophisticated
rocket and promise not to hit anyone" form.  ;-)

+McG+


> Robert,
>
> After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA
> Class
> 3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post
>
> 1) a list of waiver application requirements,
>
> 2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses to
> flyers
>
> 3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
> narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.
>
> The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
> throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template
> to
> be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for
> same.
> Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
> Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
> process.
>
> As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long,
> less
> than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))
>
> It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
> mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications
> and
> flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time goes
> on.
>
> IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
> Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional
> Class
> 3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kent
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
> To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
> Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2
> was
> easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
> aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But
> glad
> to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Denny Smith
>   To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW
> list
>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
>   Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   Shoot!  We should have thought about that...
>
>   Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing
> there
> might be a handful of others as well.
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>   From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
>   Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
>   To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3. I'm
> even
>   more bummed to miss this event.
>
>   Cheers,
>   Robert
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
>   To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
>   <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>
>
>   > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
>   >
>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>   >
>   >
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: Brad Wright
>   > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
>   > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
>   > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>   >
>   > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>   >
>   > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>   > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>   > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
>   > To: Rockets NW list
>   > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>   >
>   > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are
> you
>   > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and
> what
>   > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>   >
>   > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
> funky
>   > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
>   > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)
> :)
>   >
>   > Cheers to all!
>   >
>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>   > a.k.a. RED
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Rockets mailing list
>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > Rockets mailing list
>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   >
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Rockets mailing list
>   Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com  Mon Sep 21 13:52:27 2009
From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:52:27 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5C475F64A0@XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com>

Now I'm goin'!!!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!

http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are you flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and what are you bringing me to drink???  LOL

SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.  (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)  :)

Cheers to all!

Angela Dinese Wright
a.k.a. RED

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From rocketsrfun at msn.com  Mon Sep 21 14:05:24 2009
From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris )
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:05:24 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS179F64D3410E3565AFA7A7BDDD0@phx.gbl>

Sounds like a job John L.

Don
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:47:02 
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call


http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/ <http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/> 
 
 Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
 Saturday, September 19, 2009
 
 Are you a rocketry genius?
 
 Do you have a high power personality?
 
 Do you love all things propulsive?
 
 Does APCP make you weak in the knees?
 
 Powderhouse Productions is casting a television reality program and 
 we're searching for the most outrageous, entertaining and daring amateur 
 rocket builder in America.
 
 The perfect host for our program will stop at nothing to build the 
 biggest, baddest and most powerful experimental thrusters this side of 
 Area 51.
 
 He or she is knowledgeable about the science and the craft of rocketry 
 and is just dying to take millions of viewers along on the ride of their 
 lives.
 
 Please e-mail a short casting video to Alex McHale ( 
 amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net> > This email 
 address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled 
 to view it ) or mail DVDs to Alex at:
 
 *Powderhouse Productions*
 212 Elm Street
 Somerville, MA 02144
 _______________________________________________
 Rockets mailing list
 Rockets at rocketsnw.com
 http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
 ?

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Mon Sep 21 14:11:37 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:11:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <000001ca3abf$71f38630$55da9290$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
	<cd5ec082079670f4f1ef3930ccb4dcde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<000001ca3abf$71f38630$55da9290$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <9b8023ae1f61b8019d02d8466658d1d5.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

> Now, barring
> that
> happening anytime soon, this is a pretty good compromise to what might
> have
> become a commercial spaceflight application process.


Yeah, Fred really ought to read up on what that entails!

What I'm most interested in here is how the class 2/class 3 definitions
affect non-TRA amateur rockets.  I *think* it ended up not unfavorable. 
I'll ruminate over the regs this weekend.  No hurry--I'm still in 'can
barely afford class 1 rockets' mode for the foreseeable future.

+McG+


> Sure, Ken.  101.21 through 101.29 is to be found here:
>
> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=6cc75dcf9d2970d4f36
> 5815d0338a445&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14
>
> 101.29 details information requirements.
>
> I understand Fred's frustration.  I should hope that it come as no
> surprise
> that all, I repeat, all fliers would prefer to avoid any waiver
> applications
> at any time, at any place, for anyone, for any flight :-)  Now, barring
> that
> happening anytime soon, this is a pretty good compromise to what might
> have
> become a commercial spaceflight application process.  That is to the
> credit
> of TRA, the TRA Class 3 Review Committee and the FAA/AST.
>
> And, as time goes on, the process may be reduced and improved upon even
> further as confidence in Tripoli to be a "quality control hub" increases.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kent
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:51 PM
> To: Kent Newman
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
>
> Is there an official, final version of the new FAA regs available?  I
> still have only the 'revisions list' version which is a bit hard to
> understand.
>
> And thanks to all who worked to streamline what originally looked like a
> truly daunting process for class 3 waivers.  Even if Fred A. and I both
> wish it were just a one-line "I'm gonna launch a honkin' big/sophisticated
> rocket and promise not to hit anyone" form.  ;-)
>
> +McG+
>
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA
>> Class
>> 3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post
>>
>> 1) a list of waiver application requirements,
>>
>> 2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses
>> to
>> flyers
>>
>> 3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
>> narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.
>>
>> The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
>> throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application template
>> to
>> be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for
>> same.
>> Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
>> Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
>> process.
>>
>> As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long,
>> less
>> than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))
>>
>> It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as we
>> mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3 applications
>> and
>> flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time
>> goes
>> on.
>>
>> IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the committee),
>> Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional
>> Class
>> 3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as well.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kent
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
>> To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>
>> Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2
>> was
>> easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
>> aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But
>> glad
>> to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: Denny Smith
>>   To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW
>> list
>>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
>>   Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>
>>
>>   Shoot!  We should have thought about that...
>>
>>   Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing
>> there
>> might be a handful of others as well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>>   From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
>>   Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
>>   To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>
>>
>>   Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3.
>> I'm
>> even
>>   more bummed to miss this event.
>>
>>   Cheers,
>>   Robert
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
>>   To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
>>   <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>
>>
>>   > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
>>   >
>>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>>   >
>>   >
>>   > -----Original Message-----
>>   > From: Brad Wright
>>   > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
>>   > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
>>   > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>   >
>>   > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>>   >
>>   > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>>   >
>>   >
>>   >
>>   > -----Original Message-----
>>   > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>   > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>>   > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
>>   > To: Rockets NW list
>>   > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>   >
>>   > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are
>> you
>>   > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and
>> what
>>   > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>>   >
>>   > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear your
>> funky
>>   > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts.
>>   > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked)
>> :)
>>   >
>>   > Cheers to all!
>>   >
>>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>>   > a.k.a. RED
>>   >
>>   > _______________________________________________
>>   > Rockets mailing list
>>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>   >
>>   > _______________________________________________
>>   > Rockets mailing list
>>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>   >
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   Rockets mailing list
>>   Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
>



From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 14:36:12 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:36:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-DS179F64D3410E3565AFA7A7BDDD0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT124-DS179F64D3410E3565AFA7A7BDDD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <366383.2746.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Or Mr. Fisher.

John




________________________________
From: Don Harris <rocketsrfun at msn.com>
To: Rockets NW <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:05:24 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call

Sounds like a job John L.

Don
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:47:02 
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call


http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/ <http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/> 

Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
Saturday, September 19, 2009

Are you a rocketry genius?

Do you have a high power personality?

Do you love all things propulsive?

Does APCP make you weak in the knees?

Powderhouse Productions is casting a television reality program and 
we're searching for the most outrageous, entertaining and daring amateur 
rocket builder in America.

The perfect host for our program will stop at nothing to build the 
biggest, baddest and most powerful experimental thrusters this side of 
Area 51.

He or she is knowledgeable about the science and the craft of rocketry 
and is just dying to take millions of viewers along on the ride of their 
lives.

Please e-mail a short casting video to Alex McHale ( 
amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net> > This email 
address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled 
to view it ) or mail DVDs to Alex at:

*Powderhouse Productions*
212 Elm Street
Somerville, MA 02144
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Mon Sep 21 14:42:23 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:42:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
In-Reply-To: <366383.2746.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT124-DS179F64D3410E3565AFA7A7BDDD0@phx.gbl>
	<366383.2746.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E431CDEA5@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>


Or together. Mr. Fisher can submit his 175 feet long 38mm baby-O motor and Mr Lyngdal can certify it for commercial use.

[Oh geez!!! Would that Krausert guy let the baby-O go!!! Argh!!!]

Cheers,
Robert (that Krausert guy)

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Hornsby
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:36 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call

Or Mr. Fisher.

John




________________________________
From: Don Harris <rocketsrfun at msn.com>
To: Rockets NW <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:05:24 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call

Sounds like a job John L.

Don
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:47:02 
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call


http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/ <http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/> 

Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
Saturday, September 19, 2009

Are you a rocketry genius?

Do you have a high power personality?

Do you love all things propulsive?

Does APCP make you weak in the knees?

Powderhouse Productions is casting a television reality program and 
we're searching for the most outrageous, entertaining and daring amateur 
rocket builder in America.

The perfect host for our program will stop at nothing to build the 
biggest, baddest and most powerful experimental thrusters this side of 
Area 51.

He or she is knowledgeable about the science and the craft of rocketry 
and is just dying to take millions of viewers along on the ride of their 
lives.

Please e-mail a short casting video to Alex McHale ( 
amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net> > This email 
address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled 
to view it ) or mail DVDs to Alex at:

*Powderhouse Productions*
212 Elm Street
Somerville, MA 02144
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 
?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From fred at azinger.com  Mon Sep 21 14:53:36 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:53:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Test burn video uploaded....
Message-ID: <006701ca3b05$f9573e00$ec05ba00$@com>

I've uploaded a video from our test burn this weekend.

It is a successful test of my 3G 6-inch Finocyl that is the booster for Team
Hardtail's Nike Apache.

 

Hope to avoid any fodder for crap like this:
http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/Abuser_BALLS17.htm

 

T-8 days to departure for the Playa!

 


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Mon Sep 21 15:24:20 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
In-Reply-To: <9b8023ae1f61b8019d02d8466658d1d5.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E34716011033@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A1B72@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><8D6D2A99EE7C834089CC7FB702E3471601160D@BL2PRD0102MB018.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<F2A4732266F34C809A910A5AFB66F40B@LaptopKrausert>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051093D5E4@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
	<7FCD6A92DB0A4ECAAD9E29D9AC41CA3C@LaptopKrausert>
	<003d01ca3a71$0d58cf80$280a6e80$@newman@comcast.net>
	<cd5ec082079670f4f1ef3930ccb4dcde.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<000001ca3abf$71f38630$55da9290$@newman@comcast.net>
	<9b8023ae1f61b8019d02d8466658d1d5.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <04b34b66b0a4081fe345f3f8868bb59f.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Got it printed out and in my range op notebook.

And yup, it's what I remembered: class2/class 3 divide is total impulse
only, nothing to do with specific technology or even(directly)liftoff
weight.  Wisely.  Although anything truly exotic--say, an antimatter
rocket or detonable materials--would obviously bring in other agencies.

And somehow I suspect a P motor bolted to a forty-foot 6x6 'stick'
wouldn't pass as an exempt "firework" either.  :)

Ducks, rows--i's, dotted--nits, picked.
+McG+


>> Now, barring
>> that
>> happening anytime soon, this is a pretty good compromise to what might
>> have
>> become a commercial spaceflight application process.
>
>
> Yeah, Fred really ought to read up on what that entails!
>
> What I'm most interested in here is how the class 2/class 3 definitions
> affect non-TRA amateur rockets.  I *think* it ended up not unfavorable.
> I'll ruminate over the regs this weekend.  No hurry--I'm still in 'can
> barely afford class 1 rockets' mode for the foreseeable future.
>
> +McG+
>
>
>> Sure, Ken.  101.21 through 101.29 is to be found here:
>>
>> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=6cc75dcf9d2970d4f36
>> 5815d0338a445&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14
>>
>> 101.29 details information requirements.
>>
>> I understand Fred's frustration.  I should hope that it come as no
>> surprise
>> that all, I repeat, all fliers would prefer to avoid any waiver
>> applications
>> at any time, at any place, for anyone, for any flight :-)  Now, barring
>> that
>> happening anytime soon, this is a pretty good compromise to what might
>> have
>> become a commercial spaceflight application process.  That is to the
>> credit
>> of TRA, the TRA Class 3 Review Committee and the FAA/AST.
>>
>> And, as time goes on, the process may be reduced and improved upon even
>> further as confidence in Tripoli to be a "quality control hub"
>> increases.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kent
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:51 PM
>> To: Kent Newman
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Class 3 Projects
>>
>> Is there an official, final version of the new FAA regs available?  I
>> still have only the 'revisions list' version which is a bit hard to
>> understand.
>>
>> And thanks to all who worked to streamline what originally looked like a
>> truly daunting process for class 3 waivers.  Even if Fred A. and I both
>> wish it were just a one-line "I'm gonna launch a honkin'
>> big/sophisticated
>> rocket and promise not to hit anyone" form.  ;-)
>>
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>>> Robert,
>>>
>>> After a period of working with the FAA/AST this flying season, the FAA
>>> Class
>>> 3 Review Committee, a TRA Committee, will soon post
>>>
>>> 1) a list of waiver application requirements,
>>>
>>> 2) offer the required 6 degrees of freedom 3-sigma dispersion analyses
>>> to
>>> flyers
>>>
>>> 3) and provide an example of an approved Class 3 application (including
>>> narrative) for flyers to use as a guideline.
>>>
>>> The committee has been involved in supporting Class 3 applications
>>> throughout this year by helping to develop a waiver application
>>> template
>>> to
>>> be used for all Class 3 apps as well as providing flight analyses for
>>> same.
>>> Some of the key Tripoli members include Chuck Rogers, Dick Embry, Pat
>>> Gordzelik and Gene Nowaczyk along with several others in working on the
>>> process.
>>>
>>> As point of fact, the "Planck's Konstant" application was 8 pages long,
>>> less
>>> than many L3 write-ups (although perhaps a bit more analytical :-))
>>>
>>> It should be said that the FAA/AST has been excellent to work with as
>>> we
>>> mutually come to an acceptable process for handling Class 3
>>> applications
>>> and
>>> flights.  I expect that the process will only become smoother as time
>>> goes
>>> on.
>>>
>>> IIRC, the first approved Class 3 project (as reviewed by the
>>> committee),
>>> Agent 99, will fly tomorrow at BR.  There will a number of additional
>>> Class
>>> 3 flights at BALLS, including "Planck's Konstant", in two weeks as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:37 PM
>>> To: Denny Smith; Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>>
>>> Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyoneCool. Seemed like with the reclass, class 2
>>> was
>>> easier. But seemed class 3 was jumping through hoops to get class 3
>>> aerospare permission. I'm happy it's working. I'm just a dumb guy. But
>>> glad
>>> to see class 3 is  something we can request and get.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Robert
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: Denny Smith
>>>   To: Robert Krausert ; Angela "Red" Wright ; Brad Wright ; Rockets NW
>>> list
>>>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:16 PM
>>>   Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>>
>>>
>>>   Shoot!  We should have thought about that...
>>>
>>>   Just kidding.  Yes, we had to get C3 approval for this.  I'm hearing
>>> there
>>> might be a handful of others as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>
>>>   From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
>>>   Sent: Sun 9/20/2009 8:03 PM
>>>   To: Angela "Red" Wright; Brad Wright; Rockets NW list
>>>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>>
>>>
>>>   Is BALLS allowing class 3 flights? A "P" certainly sits in class 3.
>>> I'm
>>> even
>>>   more bummed to miss this event.
>>>
>>>   Cheers,
>>>   Robert
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: "Angela "Red" Wright" <angelawr at wrightholdings.com>
>>>   To: "Brad Wright" <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>; "Rockets NW list"
>>>   <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>>>   Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:43 PM
>>>   Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>>
>>>
>>>   > OH YEAH BABY!  :)
>>>   >
>>>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   > -----Original Message-----
>>>   > From: Brad Wright
>>>   > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:28 PM
>>>   > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Rockets NW list
>>>   > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>>   >
>>>   > BALLS teaser photos!  Today was a GOOD day in the rocket shop!!!!!
>>>   >
>>>   > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS18-P-Project.htm
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   > -----Original Message-----
>>>   > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>>>   > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright
>>>   > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:43 PM
>>>   > To: Rockets NW list
>>>   > Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
>>>   >
>>>   > SO who is going to be at BALLS??  When are you leaving and what are
>>> you
>>>   > flying?  And the most important question what are you drinking and
>>> what
>>>   > are you bringing me to drink???  LOL
>>>   >
>>>   > SO excited I can hardly wait!! :)  Oh yeah and you need to wear
>>> your
>>> funky
>>>   > shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your
>>> shirts.
>>>   > (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u
>>> naked)
>>> :)
>>>   >
>>>   > Cheers to all!
>>>   >
>>>   > Angela Dinese Wright
>>>   > a.k.a. RED
>>>   >
>>>   > _______________________________________________
>>>   > Rockets mailing list
>>>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>   >
>>>   > _______________________________________________
>>>   > Rockets mailing list
>>>   > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>   > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>   >
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   Rockets mailing list
>>>   Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>   http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From stefan_jones at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 15:31:05 2009
From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (stefan_jones at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:31:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E431CDEA5@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <955205208.3857651253572265388.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

A few years ago another reality show, I think called "Wife Swap," was looking for a rocketry family. 

I hope they didn't find anyone. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Krausert" <robert.krausert at intel.com> 
To: "John Hornsby" <jhornsby3 at yahoo.com>, rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:42:23 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call 


Or together. Mr. Fisher can submit his 175 feet long 38mm baby-O motor and Mr Lyngdal can certify it for commercial use. 

[Oh geez!!! Would that Krausert guy let the baby-O go!!! Argh!!!] 

Cheers, 
Robert (that Krausert guy) 

-----Original Message----- 
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Hornsby 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:36 PM 
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call 

Or Mr. Fisher. 

John 




________________________________ 
From: Don Harris <rocketsrfun at msn.com> 
To: Rockets NW <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:05:24 PM 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call 

Sounds like a job John L. 

Don 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net> 

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:47:02 
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call 


http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/ <http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/> 

Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call 
Saturday, September 19, 2009 

Are you a rocketry genius? 

Do you have a high power personality? 

Do you love all things propulsive? 

Does APCP make you weak in the knees? 

Powderhouse Productions is casting a television reality program and 
we're searching for the most outrageous, entertaining and daring amateur 
rocket builder in America. 

The perfect host for our program will stop at nothing to build the 
biggest, baddest and most powerful experimental thrusters this side of 
Area 51. 

He or she is knowledgeable about the science and the craft of rocketry 
and is just dying to take millions of viewers along on the ride of their 
lives. 

Please e-mail a short casting video to Alex McHale ( 
amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net> > This email 
address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled 
to view it ) or mail DVDs to Alex at: 

*Powderhouse Productions* 
212 Elm Street 
Somerville, MA 02144 
_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> 

_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 



_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 

_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Mon Sep 21 15:33:50 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E431CDEA5@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com
	>
References: <SNT124-DS179F64D3410E3565AFA7A7BDDD0@phx.gbl>
	<366383.2746.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E431CDEA5@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <221ea4134a5a8123c5bfdac1106de942.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Ironically, I have the time available for the job but I'm anti-photogenic
and there's lots of crazy rocketeers nowadays who are waaaaaaay farther
out there than I ever was.

I'll just stay home and work on my saucer built from tinfoil, baling wire
and duct tape...rockets are so passe!  :0

Now where'd I put my Velostat hat?
+McG+


> Or together. Mr. Fisher can submit his 175 feet long 38mm baby-O motor and
> Mr Lyngdal can certify it for commercial use.
>
> [Oh geez!!! Would that Krausert guy let the baby-O go!!! Argh!!!]
>
> Cheers,
> Robert (that Krausert guy)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of John Hornsby
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:36 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting
> call
>
> Or Mr. Fisher.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Don Harris <rocketsrfun at msn.com>
> To: Rockets NW <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:05:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting
> call
>
> Sounds like a job John L.
>
> Don
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:47:02
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
>
>
> http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/
> <http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/>
>
> Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
> Saturday, September 19, 2009
>
> Are you a rocketry genius?
>
> Do you have a high power personality?
>
> Do you love all things propulsive?
>
> Does APCP make you weak in the knees?
>
> Powderhouse Productions is casting a television reality program and
> we're searching for the most outrageous, entertaining and daring amateur
> rocket builder in America.
>
> The perfect host for our program will stop at nothing to build the
> biggest, baddest and most powerful experimental thrusters this side of
> Area 51.
>
> He or she is knowledgeable about the science and the craft of rocketry
> and is just dying to take millions of viewers along on the ride of their
> lives.
>
> Please e-mail a short casting video to Alex McHale (
> amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net
> <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net> > This email
> address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled
> to view it ) or mail DVDs to Alex at:
>
> *Powderhouse Productions*
> 212 Elm Street
> Somerville, MA 02144
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Mon Sep 21 15:36:16 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:36:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
In-Reply-To: <955205208.3857651253572265388.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mai
	l.comcast.net>
References: <955205208.3857651253572265388.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <7801ddfeedb8851154ed437cc5bdbf0c.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

> A few years ago another reality show, I think called "Wife Swap," was
> looking for a rocketry family.
>
> I hope they didn't find anyone.

IIRC they did, sort of.
+McG+



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Krausert" <robert.krausert at intel.com>
> To: "John Hornsby" <jhornsby3 at yahoo.com>, rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:42:23 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting
> call
>
>
> Or together. Mr. Fisher can submit his 175 feet long 38mm baby-O motor and
> Mr Lyngdal can certify it for commercial use.
>
> [Oh geez!!! Would that Krausert guy let the baby-O go!!! Argh!!!]
>
> Cheers,
> Robert (that Krausert guy)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of John Hornsby
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:36 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting
> call
>
> Or Mr. Fisher.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Don Harris <rocketsrfun at msn.com>
> To: Rockets NW <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:05:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting
> call
>
> Sounds like a job John L.
>
> Don
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hammer <hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net>
>
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:47:02
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
>
>
> http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/
> <http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3029/29/>
>
> Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
> Saturday, September 19, 2009
>
> Are you a rocketry genius?
>
> Do you have a high power personality?
>
> Do you love all things propulsive?
>
> Does APCP make you weak in the knees?
>
> Powderhouse Productions is casting a television reality program and
> we're searching for the most outrageous, entertaining and daring amateur
> rocket builder in America.
>
> The perfect host for our program will stop at nothing to build the
> biggest, baddest and most powerful experimental thrusters this side of
> Area 51.
>
> He or she is knowledgeable about the science and the craft of rocketry
> and is just dying to take millions of viewers along on the ride of their
> lives.
>
> Please e-mail a short casting video to Alex McHale (
> amchale at powderhouse.net <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net
> <mailto:amchale at powderhouse.net> > This email
> address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled
> to view it ) or mail DVDs to Alex at:
>
> *Powderhouse Productions*
> 212 Elm Street
> Somerville, MA 02144
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> <http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Mon Sep 21 15:39:57 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:39:57 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
Message-ID: <bf3.61e7e48c.37e95abd@aol.com>

Thanks for the nomination.  I could use a real job that pays more than  
peanuts. :)
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/21/2009 2:37:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jhornsby3 at yahoo.com writes:

Or Mr.  Fisher.

John







From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Mon Sep 21 15:45:13 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:45:13 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
Message-ID: <d50.586707ce.37e95bf9@aol.com>

Thank you.  Engineering the rear mounted ejection canister for the  38mm 
motor has been interesting, and included disassembly and reassembly of a 9V  
battery into a form factor that would fit.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/21/2009 6:40:00 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
greg at blastzone.com writes:

That's a  truly unique approach!  Love  it!



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Mon Sep 21 15:47:25 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:47:25 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone (BALLS)
Message-ID: <d3c.415d21d9.37e95c7d@aol.com>

(Blushing)......Thanks!
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/20/2009 11:33:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes:

Mike  Fisher, OROC's own high priest of research rocketry!

You're the best  kind of rocketeer Mike: Totally ingeniously nuts and able
to make it all  work.  :)
+McG+


> Brought this back to the NW list in  case others were wondering what the
> heck a coaxial motor  is.
>
> Yes.  The M uses my fastest formula which makes the  core and  nozzle
> throat
> large enough to fit a 38mm motor  and recovery gear inside  it.  The 38mm
> has to have enough  thrust to lift the heavy M and rocket  though, thus 
the
>  36"
> long 38mm casing used.  I've flown the K for many   years, the M got 
tested
> last season in Jack Caynon's rocket.   Both motors  work, it's just the
> interface I had trouble with  last year.  Both motors  were developed
> separately
>  with this end goal in mind.
>
> The K2000 motor with recovery gear  gets ejected at burn out, then the
> M8000
>  gets lit three  seconds later via head end ignition.
>
> I have high confidence it  will work this time.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
> In a  message dated 9/20/2009 12:36:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>  brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:
>
> Hi  Mike,
> Is this  the one  you mentioned to me at a launch awhile  back    where 
the
> smaller motor fits inside the nozzle/core of the   larger  second motor.?
> Your super fast EX formula(s) making  this  possible ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>  Dustin
>
> I went off-list but feel  free to take reply back  on-list, if you  want.
>
>  --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  From:  Mfreptiles at aol.com
>
> To:  rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
> Subject: Re:  [RocketsNW] hey  everyone (BALLS)
> Message-ID:   <d58.4923024b.37e6eeb0 at aol.com
>>
> Content-Type:  text/plain;  charset="US-ASCII"
>
> 38mm L in all aluminum  Mr. Scary.  And a 75mm  Coaxial dual thrust  K2000
>  to
> M8000 in a single stage.  I'm  almost finished building  the central
> motor's
> ejection canister.   More mixing  and packing to go.
>
> Mike   F.
>
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>




From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 15:48:57 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:48:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
In-Reply-To: <bf3.61e7e48c.37e95abd@aol.com>
References: <bf3.61e7e48c.37e95abd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <730063.17792.qm@web110203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

You'll need an assistant and personal driver. I think I can find that screw driver you just dropped in the dirt. :o)

John 




________________________________
From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
To: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:39:57 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call

Thanks for the nomination.? I could use a real job that pays more than peanuts. :)

Mike F.

In a message dated 9/21/2009 2:37:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jhornsby3 at yahoo.com writes:
Or Mr. Fisher.
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>


      

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Mon Sep 21 16:31:31 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:31:31 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
Message-ID: <d1f.49a11c8e.37e966d3@aol.com>

That wasn't dropped, it flew quite vigorously when the rocket I was arming  
deployed on the pad.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/21/2009 3:50:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
jhornsby3 at yahoo.com writes:

You'll  need an assistant and personal driver. I think I can find that 
screw driver  you just dropped in the dirt. :o)

John  




________________________________
From:  "Mfreptiles at aol.com" <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
To: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com;  rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:39:57  PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting  
call

Thanks for the nomination.  I could use a real job that pays  more than 
peanuts. :)

Mike F.

In a message dated 9/21/2009  2:37:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
jhornsby3 at yahoo.com writes:
Or Mr.  Fisher.
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>



_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 17:45:28 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:45:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
In-Reply-To: <d1f.49a11c8e.37e966d3@aol.com>
References: <d1f.49a11c8e.37e966d3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <818146.94636.qm@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

oh so that was why you dropped it in the dirt. I was wondering why you needed to use mine. :o)

John




________________________________
From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
To: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:31:31 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call

That wasn't dropped, it flew quite vigorously when the rocket I was arming deployed on the pad.

Mike F.

In a message dated 9/21/2009 3:50:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jhornsby3 at yahoo.com writes:
You'll need an assistant and personal driver. I think I can find that screw driver you just dropped in the dirt. :o)
>
>John 
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" <Mfreptiles at aol.com>
>To: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:39:57 PM
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
>
>Thanks for the nomination.? I could use a real job that pays more than peanuts. :)
>
>Mike F.
>
>In a message dated 9/21/2009 2:37:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jhornsby3 at yahoo.com writes:
>Or Mr. Fisher.
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>? ? ? 
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>? 


      

From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Tue Sep 22 00:22:55 2009
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:22:55 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
In-Reply-To: <bf3.61e7e48c.37e95abd@aol.com>
References: <bf3.61e7e48c.37e95abd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-W38B240FA4FAEFF28F26848B5DC0@phx.gbl>


I dont wanna host, but Sean and I would love to be participants. Master blassters.....Not ... but prolific we are .... Vinny
 
> From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:39:57 -0400
> To: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Powderhouse Productions issues rocketry casting call
> 
> Thanks for the nomination. I could use a real job that pays more than 
> peanuts. :)
> 
> Mike F.
> 
> 
> In a message dated 9/21/2009 2:37:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
> jhornsby3 at yahoo.com writes:
> 
> Or Mr. Fisher.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Tue Sep 22 00:31:53 2009
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:31:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch report
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A32F4@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <037901ca3a4f$e8944920$b9bcdb60$@com>,
	<e068dfbd0909211001j7cfdb2ecj57ff8bf4277969c1@mail.gmail.com> 
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099135A32F4@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-W4505233B268BC76B7359A0B5DC0@phx.gbl>


Carl, your dedication to the rules are much appreciated, too bad I missed it. !!! V
 
> From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com
> To: carl at mousetrap.com; absworld at cet.com
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:10:18 +0000
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch report
> 
> Carl - you've got quite a trend going of loosing your pants at launches...... kinda disturbing ;)
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Hamilton [carl at mousetrap.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:01 AM
> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek
> Cc: Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch report
> 
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Bob & Ann Yanecek <absworld at cet.com> wrote:
> 
> > As for Carl and the full moon that I saw midday, well, my eyes are still
> > burning.
> >
> > I guess sometimes, binoculars are not a good thing.
> >
> 
> That's what you get when you tell a rule-follower what it takes to "make it
> count".
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

From sb at berfield.com  Tue Sep 22 09:58:02 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:58:02 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
Message-ID: <W374163010178801253638682@webmail46>

Well, I've had 3 hours of sleep now, so thought I would drop an XPRS note to the list. I won't try to be eloquent, just a few items of note.

Weather: beautiful, sunny and a little hot (low 90s) with almost no wind except for a dusty blow on Saturday afternoon.
Attendance: much lower than past years. I am worried about the event. We need more NW flyers to get down there next year.

Flights:
Friday - BiPolar Disorder II -- 2 stage, K550->J350, successful flight to 14,000 and some change - my first successful 2 stage flight.

Friday - 5" Polecat Fatboy -- J250-SK, good flight to just under (estimated) 4,000 with a little nervousness on the late deployment and no damage

Saturday - Frankenrocket on a K185 to about 9,000 (estimated). Well, let's just say that I learned what a 36" SkyAngle chute sounds like when it explodes on deployment at 390 MPH 500 feet above the playa. No apogee deployment. Get the shovel.

Saturday - A windy flight of my shiny new Eagle Claw (Talon knockoff) on an L640-Dual Thrust. Banged off the pad and a nice sustained thrust to 8,800. Clean recovery except for the battering and sanding of my cool paint job as it got dragged until it filled with Playa. I think I may just clear coat the dirt and scratches as war wounds.

Sunday - The big team project (Dave Randall, michael Dennis, Mike Wyvel and me) U4EA launched on an M1419, 2 K1100s, and 2 J### (I forget what they were). My first time thermite (boy was I nervous) lit all 5 on the pad and she flew to around 2,500 feet (Dave Randall has the exact data). A nail biter when the big drogue didn't inflate, then the main didn't open then finally one fo the three chutes opened and brought her down more gently than we had any right to expect. Recovered with almost no damage.

Sunday - Competitor 4 (called Big Yellow Taxi) on a very cool new CTI motor - an L1410-SK. Took forever to light but shot up dead straight in perfect still air on a huge column of sparks. 12,555 Feet and a perfect recovery.

Monday (Research Day) - U4EA flew again, this time on an N that Brad Wright and Mike Wyvel made using "purple Helmet" propellant and 2 K1100s. All three lit on the pad (thermite again) and she went to around 3,600 feet abd third time is the charm as all 3 chutes deployed beautifully. 

For all that there weren't that many folks there, there were still lots of cool flights including some truly scary failures. And one hilarious attempt to fly Astroboy. You had to be there, but it was a hoot.

Great company, hot springs with pre-installed Burning Man stoners, the occasionaly burn barrel, andamazing stars -- a great week.

If BALLs weather is as nice, you guys will have a kickass weekend.


From sb at berfield.com  Tue Sep 22 10:23:12 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:23:12 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] hey everyone
Message-ID: <W4013728180137941253640192@webmail32>

All you insane BALLsy fliers: have a great time and great flights. The project scoming out of this area this year sound amazing and I am totally bummed that I won't be able to see them fly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com [mailto:Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 07:18 PM
To: 'Rockets NW list', rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] hey everyone

Who's going to Balls? We are! (Team Numb: Tyler, Jason, John and me. Dave will be staying home with a brand new baby) When are we leaving? When we're finally done. Most likely Thur morning. Brad, if you get there 1st, save me the usual spot. What are we flying? One keg of Roots beer and then a 3FNC 6" full O. What are we drinking? The beer we've flown, then everyone else's beer. Fred, bring more beer. I think we can find some funky shirts. Preferably tye-dyed! So looking forward to getting there!!! -- Peter "Angela \"Red\" Wright" Rockets NW list Sent by: rockets-bounces at r cc ocketsnw.com Subject [RocketsNW] hey everyone 09/19/2009 06:43 PM SO who is going to be at BALLS?? When are you leaving and what are you flying? And the most important question what are you drinking and what are you bringing me to drink??? LOL SO excited I can hardly wait!! :) Oh yeah and you need to wear your funky shirts again to BALLS to show off. Don't be babies wear your shirts. (please wear your shirts because I don't really want to see u naked) :) Cheers to all! Angela Dinese Wright a.k.a. RED _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 

From fred.azinger at intel.com  Tue Sep 22 13:08:50 2009
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:08:50 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
In-Reply-To: <W374163010178801253638682@webmail46>
References: <W374163010178801253638682@webmail46>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB6159BED3@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

XPRS needs to be further separated from BALLS and/or have more research days before more NW fliers will attend.....
I can't see the point in attending XPRS with BALLS two weeks later.
With the new research rules allowing commercial flights....XPRS will (slowly) turn in a NAR event.
Just hope BALLS sticks to the K or better rule for commercial flights -- otherwise there won't be enough GSE.
All IMHO.....thanks for the launch report....we don't see many any more....
FredA
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:58 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS

Well, I've had 3 hours of sleep now, so thought I would drop an XPRS note to the list. I won't try to be eloquent, just a few items of note.

Weather: beautiful, sunny and a little hot (low 90s) with almost no wind except for a dusty blow on Saturday afternoon.
Attendance: much lower than past years. I am worried about the event. We need more NW flyers to get down there next year.

Flights:
Friday - BiPolar Disorder II -- 2 stage, K550->J350, successful flight to 14,000 and some change - my first successful 2 stage flight.

Friday - 5" Polecat Fatboy -- J250-SK, good flight to just under (estimated) 4,000 with a little nervousness on the late deployment and no damage

Saturday - Frankenrocket on a K185 to about 9,000 (estimated). Well, let's just say that I learned what a 36" SkyAngle chute sounds like when it explodes on deployment at 390 MPH 500 feet above the playa. No apogee deployment. Get the shovel.

Saturday - A windy flight of my shiny new Eagle Claw (Talon knockoff) on an L640-Dual Thrust. Banged off the pad and a nice sustained thrust to 8,800. Clean recovery except for the battering and sanding of my cool paint job as it got dragged until it filled with Playa. I think I may just clear coat the dirt and scratches as war wounds.

Sunday - The big team project (Dave Randall, michael Dennis, Mike Wyvel and me) U4EA launched on an M1419, 2 K1100s, and 2 J### (I forget what they were). My first time thermite (boy was I nervous) lit all 5 on the pad and she flew to around 2,500 feet (Dave Randall has the exact data). A nail biter when the big drogue didn't inflate, then the main didn't open then finally one fo the three chutes opened and brought her down more gently than we had any right to expect. Recovered with almost no damage.

Sunday - Competitor 4 (called Big Yellow Taxi) on a very cool new CTI motor - an L1410-SK. Took forever to light but shot up dead straight in perfect still air on a huge column of sparks. 12,555 Feet and a perfect recovery.

Monday (Research Day) - U4EA flew again, this time on an N that Brad Wright and Mike Wyvel made using "purple Helmet" propellant and 2 K1100s. All three lit on the pad (thermite again) and she went to around 3,600 feet abd third time is the charm as all 3 chutes deployed beautifully. 

For all that there weren't that many folks there, there were still lots of cool flights including some truly scary failures. And one hilarious attempt to fly Astroboy. You had to be there, but it was a hoot.

Great company, hot springs with pre-installed Burning Man stoners, the occasionaly burn barrel, andamazing stars -- a great week.

If BALLs weather is as nice, you guys will have a kickass weekend.

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From dmrandall at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 17:25:45 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:25:45 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
In-Reply-To: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB6159BED3@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <W374163010178801253638682@webmail46>
	<F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB6159BED3@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909221725h5575fa95o1d40c3b092a60541@mail.gmail.com>

Although we were there for Research day on Monday, there were really
only about 6-10 flights.  I suspect some were commercial reloads, and
other than our U4EA and the P->N project, most all the other flights
were K or less by my estimate.

I have no idea why XPRS attendance was down so much from last year,
but it was dramatic.  One of the draws for me personally is the
variety of rockets at XPRS.  In the past, when it was > 250 flyers,
there were a lot of nice, unique rockets to enjoy.  This year, there
were a few notables, but by in large, standard 4FNC/3FNC rockets were
the norm.

For those that have managed events like FITS or some of the Oregon
launches, what is the typical ratio of commercial to research?  I know
it's skewed for something like FITS that has limited research days,
but it seems to me the number of research flyers relative to
commercial fliers is at least 1:20?  I get your point Fred about
splitting the calendar time more, but I just wonder how many research
flyers there are - so even if it were split more, would folks still
choose one over the other?  It's a long 14 hour drive (straight
through) from up here in Seattle.  Frankly, I think it would be better
if XPRS and BALLS were back to back - then I could grab 2 days for
XPRS and 2 days for BALLS.  Even if there were a day gap in between,
that'd be fine too...

Now, back to creating my launch report... :)

Dave


On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Azinger, Fred <fred.azinger at intel.com> wrote:
> XPRS needs to be further separated from BALLS and/or have more research days before more NW fliers will attend.....
> I can't see the point in attending XPRS with BALLS two weeks later.
> With the new research rules allowing commercial flights....XPRS will (slowly) turn in a NAR event.
> Just hope BALLS sticks to the K or better rule for commercial flights -- otherwise there won't be enough GSE.
> All IMHO.....thanks for the launch report....we don't see many any more....
> FredA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:58 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
>
> Well, I've had 3 hours of sleep now, so thought I would drop an XPRS note to the list. I won't try to be eloquent, just a few items of note.
>
> Weather: beautiful, sunny and a little hot (low 90s) with almost no wind except for a dusty blow on Saturday afternoon.
> Attendance: much lower than past years. I am worried about the event. We need more NW flyers to get down there next year.
>
> Flights:
> Friday - BiPolar Disorder II -- 2 stage, K550->J350, successful flight to 14,000 and some change - my first successful 2 stage flight.
>
> Friday - 5" Polecat Fatboy -- J250-SK, good flight to just under (estimated) 4,000 with a little nervousness on the late deployment and no damage
>
> Saturday - Frankenrocket on a K185 to about 9,000 (estimated). Well, let's just say that I learned what a 36" SkyAngle chute sounds like when it explodes on deployment at 390 MPH 500 feet above the playa. No apogee deployment. Get the shovel.
>
> Saturday - A windy flight of my shiny new Eagle Claw (Talon knockoff) on an L640-Dual Thrust. Banged off the pad and a nice sustained thrust to 8,800. Clean recovery except for the battering and sanding of my cool paint job as it got dragged until it filled with Playa. I think I may just clear coat the dirt and scratches as war wounds.
>
> Sunday - The big team project (Dave Randall, michael Dennis, Mike Wyvel and me) U4EA launched on an M1419, 2 K1100s, and 2 J### (I forget what they were). My first time thermite (boy was I nervous) lit all 5 on the pad and she flew to around 2,500 feet (Dave Randall has the exact data). A nail biter when the big drogue didn't inflate, then the main didn't open then finally one fo the three chutes opened and brought her down more gently than we had any right to expect. Recovered with almost no damage.
>
> Sunday - Competitor 4 (called Big Yellow Taxi) on a very cool new CTI motor - an L1410-SK. Took forever to light but shot up dead straight in perfect still air on a huge column of sparks. 12,555 Feet and a perfect recovery.
>
> Monday (Research Day) - U4EA flew again, this time on an N that Brad Wright and Mike Wyvel made using "purple Helmet" propellant and 2 K1100s. All three lit on the pad (thermite again) and she went to around 3,600 feet abd third time is the charm as all 3 chutes deployed beautifully.
>
> For all that there weren't that many folks there, there were still lots of cool flights including some truly scary failures. And one hilarious attempt to fly Astroboy. You had to be there, but it was a hoot.
>
> Great company, hot springs with pre-installed Burning Man stoners, the occasionaly burn barrel, andamazing stars -- a great week.
>
> If BALLs weather is as nice, you guys will have a kickass weekend.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 17:37:42 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:37:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
References: <W374163010178801253638682@webmail46><F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB6159BED3@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<6bc920e40909221725h5575fa95o1d40c3b092a60541@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08F10169706848F29ABBE9E7F8E827E1@LaptopKrausert>

OROC this will have flown ~1100 rockets, all events combine and rough quote. 
Of those this year, research motor flights are about 0.5% of the total.

Hardtail, Numb, BORG,  Cutonilli, and Mike F are about our only research 
flyers these days.

Would love to see that grow. One reason I'm pushing for a Fly-Off - fun four 
day event. Giving EX folks a place and time to test before BALLS. August EX 
is a great launch. But trying to create a two EX / 2 day commercial event. 
If you need 4 hours to ready one flight, a one day EX on Friday might only 
offer a chance to fly one or two. Having a two day EX fly off, opens up for 
more prep time. Safer for everyone, more rewarding and less frustrating for 
EX flyers.

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>
To: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS


> Although we were there for Research day on Monday, there were really
> only about 6-10 flights.  I suspect some were commercial reloads, and
> other than our U4EA and the P->N project, most all the other flights
> were K or less by my estimate.
>
> I have no idea why XPRS attendance was down so much from last year,
> but it was dramatic.  One of the draws for me personally is the
> variety of rockets at XPRS.  In the past, when it was > 250 flyers,
> there were a lot of nice, unique rockets to enjoy.  This year, there
> were a few notables, but by in large, standard 4FNC/3FNC rockets were
> the norm.
>
> For those that have managed events like FITS or some of the Oregon
> launches, what is the typical ratio of commercial to research?  I know
> it's skewed for something like FITS that has limited research days,
> but it seems to me the number of research flyers relative to
> commercial fliers is at least 1:20?  I get your point Fred about
> splitting the calendar time more, but I just wonder how many research
> flyers there are - so even if it were split more, would folks still
> choose one over the other?  It's a long 14 hour drive (straight
> through) from up here in Seattle.  Frankly, I think it would be better
> if XPRS and BALLS were back to back - then I could grab 2 days for
> XPRS and 2 days for BALLS.  Even if there were a day gap in between,
> that'd be fine too...
>
> Now, back to creating my launch report... :)
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Azinger, Fred <fred.azinger at intel.com> 
> wrote:
>> XPRS needs to be further separated from BALLS and/or have more research 
>> days before more NW fliers will attend.....
>> I can't see the point in attending XPRS with BALLS two weeks later.
>> With the new research rules allowing commercial flights....XPRS will 
>> (slowly) turn in a NAR event.
>> Just hope BALLS sticks to the K or better rule for commercial flights --  
>> otherwise there won't be enough GSE.
>> All IMHO.....thanks for the launch report....we don't see many any 
>> more....
>> FredA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:58 AM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
>>
>> Well, I've had 3 hours of sleep now, so thought I would drop an XPRS note 
>> to the list. I won't try to be eloquent, just a few items of note.
>>
>> Weather: beautiful, sunny and a little hot (low 90s) with almost no wind 
>> except for a dusty blow on Saturday afternoon.
>> Attendance: much lower than past years. I am worried about the event. We 
>> need more NW flyers to get down there next year.
>>
>> Flights:
>> Friday - BiPolar Disorder II -- 2 stage, K550->J350, successful flight to 
>> 14,000 and some change - my first successful 2 stage flight.
>>
>> Friday - 5" Polecat Fatboy -- J250-SK, good flight to just under 
>> (estimated) 4,000 with a little nervousness on the late deployment and no 
>> damage
>>
>> Saturday - Frankenrocket on a K185 to about 9,000 (estimated). Well, 
>> let's just say that I learned what a 36" SkyAngle chute sounds like when 
>> it explodes on deployment at 390 MPH 500 feet above the playa. No apogee 
>> deployment. Get the shovel.
>>
>> Saturday - A windy flight of my shiny new Eagle Claw (Talon knockoff) on 
>> an L640-Dual Thrust. Banged off the pad and a nice sustained thrust to 
>> 8,800. Clean recovery except for the battering and sanding of my cool 
>> paint job as it got dragged until it filled with Playa. I think I may 
>> just clear coat the dirt and scratches as war wounds.
>>
>> Sunday - The big team project (Dave Randall, michael Dennis, Mike Wyvel 
>> and me) U4EA launched on an M1419, 2 K1100s, and 2 J### (I forget what 
>> they were). My first time thermite (boy was I nervous) lit all 5 on the 
>> pad and she flew to around 2,500 feet (Dave Randall has the exact data). 
>> A nail biter when the big drogue didn't inflate, then the main didn't 
>> open then finally one fo the three chutes opened and brought her down 
>> more gently than we had any right to expect. Recovered with almost no 
>> damage.
>>
>> Sunday - Competitor 4 (called Big Yellow Taxi) on a very cool new CTI 
>> motor - an L1410-SK. Took forever to light but shot up dead straight in 
>> perfect still air on a huge column of sparks. 12,555 Feet and a perfect 
>> recovery.
>>
>> Monday (Research Day) - U4EA flew again, this time on an N that Brad 
>> Wright and Mike Wyvel made using "purple Helmet" propellant and 2 K1100s. 
>> All three lit on the pad (thermite again) and she went to around 3,600 
>> feet abd third time is the charm as all 3 chutes deployed beautifully.
>>
>> For all that there weren't that many folks there, there were still lots 
>> of cool flights including some truly scary failures. And one hilarious 
>> attempt to fly Astroboy. You had to be there, but it was a hoot.
>>
>> Great company, hot springs with pre-installed Burning Man stoners, the 
>> occasionaly burn barrel, andamazing stars -- a great week.
>>
>> If BALLs weather is as nice, you guys will have a kickass weekend.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> - Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Tue Sep 22 19:57:54 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:57:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
In-Reply-To: <08F10169706848F29ABBE9E7F8E827E1@LaptopKrausert>
References: <W374163010178801253638682@webmail46><F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB6159BED3@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<6bc920e40909221725h5575fa95o1d40c3b092a60541@mail.gmail.com>
	<08F10169706848F29ABBE9E7F8E827E1@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <f81ee7ab78593cf476f031104cfb50c5.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

And commercial hybrids are rare at OROC launches too.  Far less than even
EX stuff.

+McG+


> OROC this will have flown ~1100 rockets, all events combine and rough
> quote.
> Of those this year, research motor flights are about 0.5% of the total.
>
> Hardtail, Numb, BORG,  Cutonilli, and Mike F are about our only research
> flyers these days.
>
> Would love to see that grow. One reason I'm pushing for a Fly-Off - fun
> four
> day event. Giving EX folks a place and time to test before BALLS. August
> EX
> is a great launch. But trying to create a two EX / 2 day commercial event.
> If you need 4 hours to ready one flight, a one day EX on Friday might only
> offer a chance to fly one or two. Having a two day EX fly off, opens up
> for
> more prep time. Safer for everyone, more rewarding and less frustrating
> for
> EX flyers.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> To: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS
>
>
>> Although we were there for Research day on Monday, there were really
>> only about 6-10 flights.  I suspect some were commercial reloads, and
>> other than our U4EA and the P->N project, most all the other flights
>> were K or less by my estimate.
>>
>> I have no idea why XPRS attendance was down so much from last year,
>> but it was dramatic.  One of the draws for me personally is the
>> variety of rockets at XPRS.  In the past, when it was > 250 flyers,
>> there were a lot of nice, unique rockets to enjoy.  This year, there
>> were a few notables, but by in large, standard 4FNC/3FNC rockets were
>> the norm.
>>
>> For those that have managed events like FITS or some of the Oregon
>> launches, what is the typical ratio of commercial to research?  I know
>> it's skewed for something like FITS that has limited research days,
>> but it seems to me the number of research flyers relative to
>> commercial fliers is at least 1:20?  I get your point Fred about
>> splitting the calendar time more, but I just wonder how many research
>> flyers there are - so even if it were split more, would folks still
>> choose one over the other?  It's a long 14 hour drive (straight
>> through) from up here in Seattle.  Frankly, I think it would be better
>> if XPRS and BALLS were back to back - then I could grab 2 days for
>> XPRS and 2 days for BALLS.  Even if there were a day gap in between,
>> that'd be fine too...
>>
>> Now, back to creating my launch report... :)
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Azinger, Fred <fred.azinger at intel.com>
>> wrote:
>>> XPRS needs to be further separated from BALLS and/or have more research
>>> days before more NW fliers will attend.....
>>> I can't see the point in attending XPRS with BALLS two weeks later.
>>> With the new research rules allowing commercial flights....XPRS will
>>> (slowly) turn in a NAR event.
>>> Just hope BALLS sticks to the K or better rule for commercial flights
>>> --
>>> otherwise there won't be enough GSE.
>>> All IMHO.....thanks for the launch report....we don't see many any
>>> more....
>>> FredA
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:58 AM
>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
>>>
>>> Well, I've had 3 hours of sleep now, so thought I would drop an XPRS
>>> note
>>> to the list. I won't try to be eloquent, just a few items of note.
>>>
>>> Weather: beautiful, sunny and a little hot (low 90s) with almost no
>>> wind
>>> except for a dusty blow on Saturday afternoon.
>>> Attendance: much lower than past years. I am worried about the event.
>>> We
>>> need more NW flyers to get down there next year.
>>>
>>> Flights:
>>> Friday - BiPolar Disorder II -- 2 stage, K550->J350, successful flight
>>> to
>>> 14,000 and some change - my first successful 2 stage flight.
>>>
>>> Friday - 5" Polecat Fatboy -- J250-SK, good flight to just under
>>> (estimated) 4,000 with a little nervousness on the late deployment and
>>> no
>>> damage
>>>
>>> Saturday - Frankenrocket on a K185 to about 9,000 (estimated). Well,
>>> let's just say that I learned what a 36" SkyAngle chute sounds like
>>> when
>>> it explodes on deployment at 390 MPH 500 feet above the playa. No
>>> apogee
>>> deployment. Get the shovel.
>>>
>>> Saturday - A windy flight of my shiny new Eagle Claw (Talon knockoff)
>>> on
>>> an L640-Dual Thrust. Banged off the pad and a nice sustained thrust to
>>> 8,800. Clean recovery except for the battering and sanding of my cool
>>> paint job as it got dragged until it filled with Playa. I think I may
>>> just clear coat the dirt and scratches as war wounds.
>>>
>>> Sunday - The big team project (Dave Randall, michael Dennis, Mike Wyvel
>>> and me) U4EA launched on an M1419, 2 K1100s, and 2 J### (I forget what
>>> they were). My first time thermite (boy was I nervous) lit all 5 on the
>>> pad and she flew to around 2,500 feet (Dave Randall has the exact
>>> data).
>>> A nail biter when the big drogue didn't inflate, then the main didn't
>>> open then finally one fo the three chutes opened and brought her down
>>> more gently than we had any right to expect. Recovered with almost no
>>> damage.
>>>
>>> Sunday - Competitor 4 (called Big Yellow Taxi) on a very cool new CTI
>>> motor - an L1410-SK. Took forever to light but shot up dead straight in
>>> perfect still air on a huge column of sparks. 12,555 Feet and a perfect
>>> recovery.
>>>
>>> Monday (Research Day) - U4EA flew again, this time on an N that Brad
>>> Wright and Mike Wyvel made using "purple Helmet" propellant and 2
>>> K1100s.
>>> All three lit on the pad (thermite again) and she went to around 3,600
>>> feet abd third time is the charm as all 3 chutes deployed beautifully.
>>>
>>> For all that there weren't that many folks there, there were still lots
>>> of cool flights including some truly scary failures. And one hilarious
>>> attempt to fly Astroboy. You had to be there, but it was a hoot.
>>>
>>> Great company, hot springs with pre-installed Burning Man stoners, the
>>> occasionaly burn barrel, andamazing stars -- a great week.
>>>
>>> If BALLs weather is as nice, you guys will have a kickass weekend.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Dave
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 21:27:32 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:27:32 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
Message-ID: <d00.60fa3d72.37eafdb4@aol.com>

And I only flew one rocket at an OROC launch this year. :(
 
Still more flyers than when I started in EX.  One launch in August,  myself 
and John Lyngdal had the site to ourselves for most of the weekend.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2009 5:38:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

Hardtail, Numb, BORG,  Cutonilli, and Mike F are about our  only research 
flyers these  days.



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 21:30:44 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:30:44 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
Message-ID: <cfa.638a068f.37eafe74@aol.com>

The biggest conflict I have with August is that it is too close to  BALLS.  
Six weeks sounds like a lot of time, but not to re-mix and cast big  
motors.  I may do August next year and take the year off from BALLS.   This year 
has been crazy with the two overly ambitious projects I have  going.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2009 5:38:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

Would  love to see that grow. One reason I'm pushing for a Fly-Off - fun 
four 
day  event. Giving EX folks a place and time to test before BALLS. August 
EX 
is  a great launch.


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 21:39:06 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:39:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
References: <cfa.638a068f.37eafe74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <39A8F57239334BBE85955A1868211389@LaptopKrausert>

So Mike would you be interested in a 2 by 2 day event? Fri/Sat EX and Sun/Mon commies. I presently trying to find the zone. What about the July 4th weekend?

This is what I've been calling the fly-off. The title for fun. But a chance to burn stuff and have time to prep for BALLS. I'm also thinking an all 35.5K weekend. Possible? Maybe, we can ask. Class 3? Sure...

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mfreptiles at aol.com 
  To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; dmrandall at gmail.com ; fred.azinger at intel.com 
  Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS


  The biggest conflict I have with August is that it is too close to BALLS.  Six weeks sounds like a lot of time, but not to re-mix and cast big motors.  I may do August next year and take the year off from BALLS.  This year has been crazy with the two overly ambitious projects I have going.

  Mike F.

  In a message dated 9/22/2009 5:38:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:
    Would love to see that grow. One reason I'm pushing for a Fly-Off - fun four 
    day event. Giving EX folks a place and time to test before BALLS. August EX 
    is a great launch.

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 21:57:03 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:57:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
In-Reply-To: <39A8F57239334BBE85955A1868211389@LaptopKrausert>
References: <cfa.638a068f.37eafe74@aol.com>
	<39A8F57239334BBE85955A1868211389@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909222157j3a27cfb7kf86a63456240842f@mail.gmail.com>

I am interested in EX and commercial Ex but the July 4th weekend is a
weekend I would not be able to attend.  Family commitments, you know how it
is when you have kids.  Beside I am a red blooded American and reserve the
right to celebrate Independence day with a BANG!

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Robert Krausert
<lawndart.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> So Mike would you be interested in a 2 by 2 day event? Fri/Sat EX and
> Sun/Mon commies. I presently trying to find the zone. What about the July
> 4th weekend?
>
> This is what I've been calling the fly-off. The title for fun. But a chance
> to burn stuff and have time to prep for BALLS. I'm also thinking an all
> 35.5K weekend. Possible? Maybe, we can ask. Class 3? Sure...
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
>  To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; dmrandall at gmail.com ;
> fred.azinger at intel.com
>  Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:30 PM
>  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS
>
>
>   The biggest conflict I have with August is that it is too close to BALLS.
>  Six weeks sounds like a lot of time, but not to re-mix and cast big motors.
>  I may do August next year and take the year off from BALLS.  This year has
> been crazy with the two overly ambitious projects I have going.
>
>  Mike F.
>
>  In a message dated 9/22/2009 5:38:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:
>    Would love to see that grow. One reason I'm pushing for a Fly-Off - fun
> four
>    day event. Giving EX folks a place and time to test before BALLS. August
> EX
>    is a great launch.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 22:04:44 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:04:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
References: <cfa.638a068f.37eafe74@aol.com>
	<39A8F57239334BBE85955A1868211389@LaptopKrausert>
	<e83b26700909222157j3a27cfb7kf86a63456240842f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E3F18E93780D421F96A2A8440E0E5528@LaptopKrausert>

That's my worry. You're not alone. My family wouldn't be pleased either. I'll keep staring at the calendar to find a possible date.
Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Christopher Guenther 
  To: Robert Krausert 
  Cc: Mfreptiles at aol.com ; dmrandall at gmail.com ; fred.azinger at intel.com ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS


  I am interested in EX and commercial Ex but the July 4th weekend is a weekend I would not be able to attend.  Family commitments, you know how it is when you have kids.  Beside I am a red blooded American and reserve the right to celebrate Independence day with a BANG! 


  On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Robert Krausert <lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote:

    So Mike would you be interested in a 2 by 2 day event? Fri/Sat EX and Sun/Mon commies. I presently trying to find the zone. What about the July 4th weekend?

    This is what I've been calling the fly-off. The title for fun. But a chance to burn stuff and have time to prep for BALLS. I'm also thinking an all 35.5K weekend. Possible? Maybe, we can ask. Class 3? Sure...

    Cheers,
    Robert

     ----- Original Message -----
     From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
     To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; dmrandall at gmail.com ; fred.azinger at intel.com
     Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com

     Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:30 PM
     Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS



     The biggest conflict I have with August is that it is too close to BALLS.  Six weeks sounds like a lot of time, but not to re-mix and cast big motors.  I may do August next year and take the year off from BALLS.  This year has been crazy with the two overly ambitious projects I have going.

     Mike F.

     In a message dated 9/22/2009 5:38:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:
       Would love to see that grow. One reason I'm pushing for a Fly-Off - fun four
       day event. Giving EX folks a place and time to test before BALLS. August EX
       is a great launch.
    _______________________________________________
    Rockets mailing list
    Rockets at rocketsnw.com
    http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 22:33:54 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:33:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>

I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it.  My 4 year old son decided
to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set before I
found out.  Any ideas on how to fix the issue?  I could bore it out but I do
not have a 54mm bore.

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Wed Sep 23 00:56:36 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:56:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3e48cecda0e22b02ef54c4fa98a3f3b.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Set up a 'kid defense perimeter' and start over.  :(

Hey, my sister's dog just ate the best acorn squash in my garden.  ATE it!
 Smack, munch, yum, good.  Fences/locks aren't optional if you don't want
stuff messed with.  Dogs will act like sneaky coyotes and kids, well,
little kids will be kids.

+McG+


> I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it.  My 4 year old son
> decided
> to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set before I
> found out.  Any ideas on how to fix the issue?  I could bore it out but I
> do
> not have a 54mm bore.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From fred at azinger.com  Wed Sep 23 02:20:22 2009
From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:20:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
In-Reply-To: <cfa.638a068f.37eafe74@aol.com>
References: <cfa.638a068f.37eafe74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004201ca3c2f$146d7e50$3d487af0$@com>

Disagree Mike....
I looked at my mix sheets....
I've cast over 240 POUNDS of propellant in the last month.

No wonder my vacuum pump is on its last legs....

But moving August EX up would be good -- let's swap for JULY!

One week and I'll be in-transit to the playa....can almost taste the dust!
Cheers,
FredA


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:31 PM
To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; fred.azinger at intel.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS

The biggest conflict I have with August is that it is too close to  BALLS.  
Six weeks sounds like a lot of time, but not to re-mix and cast big  
motors.  I may do August next year and take the year off from BALLS.   This
year 
has been crazy with the two overly ambitious projects I have  going.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2009 5:38:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

Would  love to see that grow. One reason I'm pushing for a Fly-Off - fun 
four 
day  event. Giving EX folks a place and time to test before BALLS. August 
EX 
is  a great launch.

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From greg at blastzone.com  Wed Sep 23 05:30:17 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:30:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <012f01ca3c49$9c400180$d4c00480$@com>

If you can get to the cured epoxy, localized applied heat with a heat gun
will soften it and you can scrape it away, etc.  But if there's something
like a forward ring buried in the MMT, that could be tougher.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:34 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
> 
> I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it.  My 4 year old son
decided
> to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set before I
> found out.  Any ideas on how to fix the issue?  I could bore it out but I
do
> not have a 54mm bore.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From absworld at cet.com  Wed Sep 23 06:08:06 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:08:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] (SPAM?) How do you get one tube out of another when
	epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00be01ca3c4e$e6dfe930$b49fbb90$@com>

You might try putting it in the oven and see if you can heat the epoxy to
the point it softens.
Depends a lot on what type of epoxy you're using (the good stuff will just
get stronger with heat).

Sounds like you have a good long interesting trail to explore before getting
crazy with clusters or staging.
Enjoy the adventure.

Bob Yanecek

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:34 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: (SPAM?) [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
epoxied?

I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it.  My 4 year old son decided
to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set before I
found out.  Any ideas on how to fix the issue?  I could bore it out but I do
not have a 54mm bore.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From jrcoxx at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 06:28:29 2009
From: jrcoxx at gmail.com (John Cox)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:28:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4d5ff6a50909230628i31acc13fv2f10e8864f2b1478@mail.gmail.com>

Does your 4 year old use epoxy?

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Christopher Guenther <
guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:

> I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it.  My 4 year old son
> decided
> to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set before I
> found out.  Any ideas on how to fix the issue?  I could bore it out but I
> do
> not have a 54mm bore.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From absworld at cet.com  Wed Sep 23 08:01:26 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:01:26 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
In-Reply-To: <d00.60fa3d72.37eafdb4@aol.com>
References: <d00.60fa3d72.37eafdb4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00de01ca3c5e$b9dde580$2d99b080$@com>

While I agree the research 'crowd' is growing, so are launch venues.
The addition of Mansfield has made it 'difficult' to justify 8 hrs of
windshield time (vs 3) to make the trek down to Brothers in order fly
research.
Still there was only one motor home + 3 cars and only 6-7 flights at
Mansfield's August research event.
The Big Sky folks in Twin Bridges MT are beginning to host a research day.
At 5 hrs windshield time + 50K' waiver, they represent a desirable launch
site.
Their first effort resulted in just one 38mm research flight.

The bigger the research project, the less time you can 'waste' with smaller,
less complicated endeavors.
Based on the progression of personal efforts within the research community,
it doesn't take long before a year becomes short when planning a project.
The recent Mansfield commercial launch was totally devoid of research
fliers.
I was only able to attend because budget constraints have prevented me from
pursuing a higher rung on my research ladder this year.

I'd be curious how many folks over 10 hrs away, could/would entertain
multiple trips down to BR?
While once a month sounds good, once a year is proving to be adequate.

Once upon a time I made the XPRS/BALLS double, talk about a BUSY month!

One thing about a commercial launch, is the inclusion of spectators along
with a full variety of fliers.
There is typically one away cell that gets some use which most spectators
feel is too far away for enjoyment.

By the time you get down to BALLS, just about everything is at an away cell
(in many cases way way way away cells) such that spectators (those not
involved with 'that' particular project) may not even be able to see the
rocket before it gets in the air.  
While most folks will pause to watch the boost phase, they quickly re-focus
on 'their' project.

The environment at a research launch is (and, I think should be) different
from what you experience at a commercial event.

I'm looking forward to a fresh top coat of playa dust on EVERYTHING :-)
T-1 week till departure.

Bob Yanecek

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:28 PM
To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; fred.azinger at intel.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS

And I only flew one rocket at an OROC launch this year. :(
 
Still more flyers than when I started in EX.  One launch in August,  myself 
and John Lyngdal had the site to ourselves for most of the weekend.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2009 5:38:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

Hardtail, Numb, BORG,  Cutonilli, and Mike F are about our  only research 
flyers these  days.


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From sales at pvconly.com  Wed Sep 23 08:08:03 2009
From: sales at pvconly.com (sales at pvconly.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:08:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <4d5ff6a50909230628i31acc13fv2f10e8864f2b1478@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <430186.18640.qm@web1204.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Chris, here is one possible solution. fashion a slide hammer our of PVC or UHMW polyethylene round rod stock, say, 1.5" O.D. 
?
Use two pieces, 3" long,?centered drilled about anywhere from 3/8" - 1/2" I.D. Use a piece of round steel rod in either 3/8" - 1/2" O.D. and tread one end to bolt one piece of the PVC round stock to the end of the steel rod.. 
?
This end would be the hammer. Use the other PVC piece as a free floating slide to transfer the hammer blow to the M/M adapter.
?
Heat the M/M with a heat gun as previously descibed in earlier posts.
Slip?the whole slide hammer?assembly down through the M/M fin can and let the free sliding piece of PVC rod stock rest against the top of the M/M adapter. 
?
Pull down hard with a hammering action against the M/M adapter and it may break free.
?
I used this method to remove a stuck 38mm motor from an airframe with good success.
?
If you need some PVC rounds as I have described I have some I can send if you will pay for the shipping.
?
Sam Grado



--- On Wed, 9/23/09, John Cox <jrcoxx at gmail.com> wrote:


From: John Cox <jrcoxx at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
To: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 6:28 AM


Does your 4 year old use epoxy?

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Christopher Guenther <
guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:

> I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it.? My 4 year old son
> decided
> to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set before I
> found out.? Any ideas on how to fix the issue?? I could bore it out but I
> do
> not have a 54mm bore.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Wed Sep 23 09:04:50 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:04:50 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
Message-ID: <be0.6552315a.37eba122@aol.com>

Ok, now you've got my attention!  :)
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2009 9:39:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

So Mike would you be interested in a 2 by 2 day event? Fri/Sat EX and  
Sun/Mon commies. I presently trying to find the zone. What about the July 4th  
weekend?
 
This is what I've been calling the fly-off. The title for fun. But a  
chance to burn stuff and have time to prep for BALLS. I'm also thinking an all  
35.5K weekend. Possible? Maybe, we can ask. Class 3? Sure...
 
Cheers,
Robert



From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Wed Sep 23 09:07:16 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:07:16 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
Message-ID: <ca3.5bf539cf.37eba1b4@aol.com>

No a worry for me.  Believe it or not, I'm fireworks averse.  To  me, 
compared to rockets they are a yawn fest.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2009 10:05:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

That's my worry. You're not alone. My family  wouldn't be pleased either. 
I'll keep staring at the calendar to find a  possible date.



From carl20320 at msn.com  Wed Sep 23 09:08:07 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:08:07 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <4d5ff6a50909230628i31acc13fv2f10e8864f2b1478@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL120-W48CC79225125F01A1C3F7CEADB0@phx.gbl>


That was my thought?  Was there workable epoxy left where your 4 year old could get to it?  If so, consider yourself lucky that only your motor mount was messed up.  

 

I thought there were pics posted a couple days ago of this MMT/rings combo already constructed? :confused:
 
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:28:29 -0700
> From: jrcoxx at gmail.com
> To: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
> 
> Does your 4 year old use epoxy?
> 
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Christopher Guenther <
> guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it. My 4 year old son
> > decided
> > to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set before I
> > found out. Any ideas on how to fix the issue? I could bore it out but I
> > do
> > not have a 54mm bore.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Wed Sep 23 09:13:18 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:13:18 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
Message-ID: <cf4.5bf8cf90.37eba31e@aol.com>

Yeah, but you are a madman. :)
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 9/23/2009 2:20:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
fred at azinger.com writes:

Disagree  Mike....
I looked at my mix sheets....
I've cast over 240 POUNDS of  propellant in the last month.

No wonder my vacuum pump is on its last  legs....



From sb at berfield.com  Wed Sep 23 10:05:54 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:05:54 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Learnign about EX
Message-ID: <W2341217759278181253725554@webmail13>


All this discussion of EX vs commercial launches has me thinking that I enjot two different aspects of the hobby and I think I need to start looking into how I can cover both. I love the commercial launches with families and kids and a wide variety of regular to silly rockets and the general fun factor, and I love big hairy complex projects that have a chance of going boom. And of course, I would love to fly bigger motors than I can easily buy commercially.

If I wanted to start learning more about EX stuff, what are somedecent starting points. I know the basics and had a great tutorial fromGreg a couple years ago, but would be interested in learning moredetail. Are there sources for cases and parts for those of us who arenot able to machine our own stuff? 



From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Wed Sep 23 10:48:49 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:48:49 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
In-Reply-To: <00de01ca3c5e$b9dde580$2d99b080$@com>
References: <d00.60fa3d72.37eafdb4@aol.com>
	<00de01ca3c5e$b9dde580$2d99b080$@com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099138DDE49@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Twin Bridges MT is about 11-12 hrs for us which is close to the BALLS drive.  However, given that it's right next to Yellowstone it offers a nice combo trip.   For high waivers and a second "major" of the year it would be good to encourage.....

b

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob & Ann Yanecek
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:01 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS

While I agree the research 'crowd' is growing, so are launch venues.
The addition of Mansfield has made it 'difficult' to justify 8 hrs of
windshield time (vs 3) to make the trek down to Brothers in order fly
research.
Still there was only one motor home + 3 cars and only 6-7 flights at
Mansfield's August research event.
The Big Sky folks in Twin Bridges MT are beginning to host a research day.
At 5 hrs windshield time + 50K' waiver, they represent a desirable launch
site.
Their first effort resulted in just one 38mm research flight.

The bigger the research project, the less time you can 'waste' with smaller,
less complicated endeavors.
Based on the progression of personal efforts within the research community,
it doesn't take long before a year becomes short when planning a project.
The recent Mansfield commercial launch was totally devoid of research
fliers.
I was only able to attend because budget constraints have prevented me from
pursuing a higher rung on my research ladder this year.

I'd be curious how many folks over 10 hrs away, could/would entertain
multiple trips down to BR?
While once a month sounds good, once a year is proving to be adequate.

Once upon a time I made the XPRS/BALLS double, talk about a BUSY month!

One thing about a commercial launch, is the inclusion of spectators along
with a full variety of fliers.
There is typically one away cell that gets some use which most spectators
feel is too far away for enjoyment.

By the time you get down to BALLS, just about everything is at an away cell
(in many cases way way way away cells) such that spectators (those not
involved with 'that' particular project) may not even be able to see the
rocket before it gets in the air.
While most folks will pause to watch the boost phase, they quickly re-focus
on 'their' project.

The environment at a research launch is (and, I think should be) different
from what you experience at a commercial event.

I'm looking forward to a fresh top coat of playa dust on EVERYTHING :-)
T-1 week till departure.

Bob Yanecek

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:28 PM
To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; dmrandall at gmail.com; fred.azinger at intel.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS

And I only flew one rocket at an OROC launch this year. :(

Still more flyers than when I started in EX.  One launch in August,  myself
and John Lyngdal had the site to ourselves for most of the weekend.

Mike F.


In a message dated 9/22/2009 5:38:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes:

Hardtail, Numb, BORG,  Cutonilli, and Mike F are about our  only research
flyers these  days.


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 11:03:09 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:03:09 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W48CC79225125F01A1C3F7CEADB0@phx.gbl>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
	<4d5ff6a50909230628i31acc13fv2f10e8864f2b1478@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL120-W48CC79225125F01A1C3F7CEADB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909231103t617d37yc705770f51893af9@mail.gmail.com>

Yes the pics were taken after the fact.  I have been just a bit dismayed on
what to do about it thats all.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:

>
> That was my thought?  Was there workable epoxy left where your 4 year old
> could get to it?  If so, consider yourself lucky that only your motor mount
> was messed up.
>
>
>
> I thought there were pics posted a couple days ago of this MMT/rings combo
> already constructed? :confused:
>
> > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:28:29 -0700
> > From: jrcoxx at gmail.com
> > To: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
> epoxied?
> >
>  > Does your 4 year old use epoxy?
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Christopher Guenther <
> > guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it. My 4 year old son
> > > decided
> > > to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set before
> I
> > > found out. Any ideas on how to fix the issue? I could bore it out but I
> > > do
> > > not have a 54mm bore.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From rocketsrfun at msn.com  Wed Sep 23 11:09:39 2009
From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris )
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:09:39 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Learnign about EX
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS768688E65D36C93131446BDDB0@phx.gbl>

Mike Fisher makes good ex casings.

Don
------Original Message------
From: Scott Berfield
To: Rockets NW
Subject: [RocketsNW] Learnign about EX
Sent: Sep 23, 2009 10:05

All this discussion of EX vs commercial launches has me thinking that I enjot two different aspects of the hobby and I think I need to start looking into how I can cover both. I love the commercial launches with families and kids and a wide variety of regular to silly rockets and the general fun factor, and I love big hairy complex projects that have a chance of going boom. And of course, I would love to fly bigger motors than I can easily buy commercially. If I wanted to start learning more about EX stuff, what are somedecent starting points. I know the basics and had a great tutorial fromGreg a couple years ago, but would be interested in learning moredetail. Are there sources for cases and parts for those of us who arenot able to machine our own stuff? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 11:15:36 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:15:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Learnign about EX
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-DS768688E65D36C93131446BDDB0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT124-DS768688E65D36C93131446BDDB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909231115y22411af6vc3004f68f0ded317@mail.gmail.com>

I would talk to Mike Fisher.  He is good at what he does.  I would however
wait untill after BALLS.  He is real slammed right now with last minute
orders.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Don Harris <rocketsrfun at msn.com> wrote:

> Mike Fisher makes good ex casings.
>
> Don
>  ------Original Message------
> From: Scott Berfield
> To: Rockets NW
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Learnign about EX
> Sent: Sep 23, 2009 10:05
>
> All this discussion of EX vs commercial launches has me thinking that I
> enjot two different aspects of the hobby and I think I need to start looking
> into how I can cover both. I love the commercial launches with families and
> kids and a wide variety of regular to silly rockets and the general fun
> factor, and I love big hairy complex projects that have a chance of going
> boom. And of course, I would love to fly bigger motors than I can easily buy
> commercially. If I wanted to start learning more about EX stuff, what are
> somedecent starting points. I know the basics and had a great tutorial
> fromGreg a couple years ago, but would be interested in learning moredetail.
> Are there sources for cases and parts for those of us who arenot able to
> machine our own stuff? _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Wed Sep 23 12:10:12 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:10:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Learnign about EX
In-Reply-To: <W2341217759278181253725554@webmail13>
References: <W2341217759278181253725554@webmail13>
Message-ID: <00ee01ca3c81$7a738800$6f5a9800$@net>

Scott and all,

I suggest getting copy of Experimental Composite Propellant by McCreary and
reading it.  Then reread the safety portions.  After that find someone who
is doing Research Motors in your area that will take you under their wing or
at least let you observe and ask questions (preferably not when they are in
a big rush to prep for a launch).  Also attend a research launch and ask
questions when folks are not pressed for time.  At that point you are ready
to get started on your own mixing and casting.  Start small (a dedicated 5
qt KichenAid mixer and 38 mm hardware is great).  Plan to test burn several
motors before you fly - better to trash a motor than an entire rocket.

That is the approach we took (except that we have never observed anyone
else's process due to distance) and for the most part it was successful up
to M & N class motors so far.  However, in the past year we have been
pushing things a bit and had our share of learning experiences (aka
failures), some of which were with a propellant that was well characterized
by others in 38 & 54 mm motors (we found we had casting issues).

It is known as research for a reason - we are all learning, particularly as
we push into new areas.

Marty (part of the Dawg Pack from the Spokane area)

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:06 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Learnign about EX


All this discussion of EX vs commercial launches has me thinking that I
enjot two different aspects of the hobby and I think I need to start looking
into how I can cover both. I love the commercial launches with families and
kids and a wide variety of regular to silly rockets and the general fun
factor, and I love big hairy complex projects that have a chance of going
boom. And of course, I would love to fly bigger motors than I can easily buy
commercially.

If I wanted to start learning more about EX stuff, what are somedecent
starting points. I know the basics and had a great tutorial fromGreg a
couple years ago, but would be interested in learning moredetail. Are there
sources for cases and parts for those of us who arenot able to machine our
own stuff? 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From TFISH38 at aol.com  Wed Sep 23 13:07:19 2009
From: TFISH38 at aol.com (TFISH38 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:07:19 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
Message-ID: <bf3.621b0db7.37ebd9f7@aol.com>

It's interesting to hear your comments about XPRS. We (AeroPac) have had  
many discussions on when to hold XPRS. A few comments. XPRS was smaller  then 
I had thought it would be. We have not advertised any of AeroPac's launches 
 for a few years. That may be part of it. The economy can't be helping 
either.  Our ARLISS program keeps growing each year. At least a dozen of our 
members had  been out flying ARLISS since Sunday. That makes for a long 9 days 
for us. As for  EX..we have a few members that fly EX. We have our EX day on 
Fridays on our  other launches. With the college kids still hanging around 
on Friday XPRS..we  changed it to Monday. We know that it does not lend 
itself well having it then.  It does give those that want to fly some EX the 
chance..or if they need some  last minute flights before Balls. We have had 
talks with the Balls group in  years past..but nothing has ever come from it.
 
Tony Alcocer
AeroPac
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2009 1:10:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
fred.azinger at intel.com writes:

XPRS  needs to be further separated from BALLS and/or have more research 
days before  more NW fliers will attend.....
I can't see the point in attending XPRS  with BALLS two weeks later.
With the new research rules allowing commercial  flights....XPRS will 
(slowly) turn in a NAR event.
Just hope BALLS sticks  to the K or better rule for commercial flights -- 
otherwise there won't be  enough GSE.
All IMHO.....thanks for the launch report....we don't see many  any more....
FredA


-----Original Message-----
From:  rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] 
On Behalf  Of Scott Berfield
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:58 AM
To:  rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS

Well, I've had 3  hours of sleep now, so thought I would drop an XPRS note 
to the list. I won't  try to be eloquent, just a few items of note.

Weather: beautiful, sunny  and a little hot (low 90s) with almost no wind 
except for a dusty blow on  Saturday afternoon.
Attendance: much lower than past years. I am worried  about the event. We 
need more NW flyers to get down there next  year.

Flights:
Friday - BiPolar Disorder II -- 2 stage,  K550->J350, successful flight to 
14,000 and some change - my first  successful 2 stage flight.

Friday - 5" Polecat Fatboy -- J250-SK, good  flight to just under 
(estimated) 4,000 with a little nervousness on the late  deployment and no damage

Saturday - Frankenrocket on a K185 to about  9,000 (estimated). Well, let's 
just say that I learned what a 36" SkyAngle  chute sounds like when it 
explodes on deployment at 390 MPH 500 feet above the  playa. No apogee 
deployment. Get the shovel.

Saturday - A windy flight  of my shiny new Eagle Claw (Talon knockoff) on 
an L640-Dual Thrust. Banged off  the pad and a nice sustained thrust to 
8,800. Clean recovery except for the  battering and sanding of my cool paint job 
as it got dragged until it filled  with Playa. I think I may just clear coat 
the dirt and scratches as war  wounds.

Sunday - The big team project (Dave Randall, michael Dennis,  Mike Wyvel 
and me) U4EA launched on an M1419, 2 K1100s, and 2 J### (I forget  what they 
were). My first time thermite (boy was I nervous) lit all 5 on the  pad and 
she flew to around 2,500 feet (Dave Randall has the exact data). A  nail 
biter when the big drogue didn't inflate, then the main didn't open then  
finally one fo the three chutes opened and brought her down more gently than  we 
had any right to expect. Recovered with almost no damage.

Sunday -  Competitor 4 (called Big Yellow Taxi) on a very cool new CTI 
motor - an  L1410-SK. Took forever to light but shot up dead straight in perfect 
still air  on a huge column of sparks. 12,555 Feet and a perfect recovery.

Monday  (Research Day) - U4EA flew again, this time on an N that Brad 
Wright and Mike  Wyvel made using "purple Helmet" propellant and 2 K1100s. All 
three lit on the  pad (thermite again) and she went to around 3,600 feet abd 
third time is the  charm as all 3 chutes deployed beautifully. 

For all that there weren't  that many folks there, there were still lots of 
cool flights including some  truly scary failures. And one hilarious 
attempt to fly Astroboy. You had to be  there, but it was a hoot.

Great company, hot springs with pre-installed  Burning Man stoners, the 
occasionaly burn barrel, andamazing stars -- a great  week.

If BALLs weather is as nice, you guys will have a kickass  weekend.

_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 23 14:05:06 2009
From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:05:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909231103t617d37yc705770f51893af9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com>
	<4d5ff6a50909230628i31acc13fv2f10e8864f2b1478@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL120-W48CC79225125F01A1C3F7CEADB0@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26700909231103t617d37yc705770f51893af9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <461687.69268.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Christopher,

You can still use the motor mount for 38mm motors, right?? So all is not lost.? Don't throw it away.?? Build it into a dedicated 38mm rocket, then just?obtain some more tubing and start another rocket.? You can never have too many rockets.? My level 2 rocket, a Binder Design Sentinel, is long gone due to pilot error involving an altimeter.? It had lots of good flights, but things happen.? So get back to building, and have fun.? Also, make sure your kids are wearing gloves when working with epoxy!

Larry?




________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com>
Cc: Rockets NW list <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:03:09 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?

Yes the pics were taken after the fact.? I have been just a bit dismayed on
what to do about it thats all.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:

>
> That was my thought?? Was there workable epoxy left where your 4 year old
> could get to it?? If so, consider yourself lucky that only your motor mount
> was messed up.
>
>
>
> I thought there were pics posted a couple days ago of this MMT/rings combo
> already constructed? :confused:
>
> > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:28:29 -0700
> > From: jrcoxx at gmail.com
> > To: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
> epoxied?
> >
>? > Does your 4 year old use epoxy?
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Christopher Guenther <
> > guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it. My 4 year old son
> > > decided
> > > to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set before
> I
> > > found out. Any ideas on how to fix the issue? I could bore it out but I
> > > do
> > > not have a 54mm bore.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From rbraibish at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 23 15:09:28 2009
From: rbraibish at yahoo.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:09:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Desperately seeking BALLS....
Message-ID: <330501.21750.qm@web43508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Just in case my first request was missed, I thought I'd ask just one more time.? I am looking to share the travel expenses to Black Rock whether I drive (my SUV) or you do, I'd really like to go.? My son will be with me, so I am looking for room for two if you drive or, two others interested in going with us, and willing to share the gas bill.? We live near Salem but would travel some distance (for or to pick-up) to save money overall...

Robert "ain't too proud to beg" Braibish


      

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 16:49:38 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:49:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com><4d5ff6a50909230628i31acc13fv2f10e8864f2b1478@mail.gmail.com><COL120-W48CC79225125F01A1C3F7CEADB0@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26700909231103t617d37yc705770f51893af9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <935737EA3D7D4F3DA941A67C6D02A4D6@LaptopKrausert>

I'm confused now. The pictures were taken after this happened? But the 
construction 2 pic shows a 54mm hole. Might be misunderstanding your "after 
the fact" comment.

Not sure if you're aware, but some people can get born on allergies to exopy 
chemical. I agree with the suggestion about having your son wear rubber or 
latex gloves.

Chris your son was only trying to help you. Please don't punish him. He saw 
watching all the work you've done. And that 4 year old wanted to help. He 
saw that adapter round ped fits in the motor round hole. He's 4 today, but 
soon he'll be 7 and 8, ready to build too. Encourage him to ask before 
"helping." Glad you got it fixed. Smile, rough up the kids hair, thank him 
for trying to help and continue on the journey. Just remember, you're going 
to have a 4 year old absorbing it all.

Sorry for the Pay It Forward comments. My son turns 17 tomorrow, and I only 
hope I've taught him something. Feeling a little antique today.

Cheers,
Robert

Enjoy the journey. We'll all continue climbing the never ending stairway to 
rocketry. Bandaids on our stubbed toes.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: "Carl Degner" <carl20320 at msn.com>
Cc: "Rockets NW list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when 
epoxied?


> Yes the pics were taken after the fact.  I have been just a bit dismayed 
> on
> what to do about it thats all.
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> That was my thought?  Was there workable epoxy left where your 4 year old
>> could get to it?  If so, consider yourself lucky that only your motor 
>> mount
>> was messed up.
>>
>>
>>
>> I thought there were pics posted a couple days ago of this MMT/rings 
>> combo
>> already constructed? :confused:
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:28:29 -0700
>> > From: jrcoxx at gmail.com
>> > To: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
>> epoxied?
>> >
>>  > Does your 4 year old use epoxy?
>> >
>> > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Christopher Guenther <
>> > guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it. My 4 year old son
>> > > decided
>> > > to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set 
>> > > before
>> I
>> > > found out. Any ideas on how to fix the issue? I could bore it out but 
>> > > I
>> > > do
>> > > not have a 54mm bore.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From forttusken2001 at aol.com  Wed Sep 23 17:10:40 2009
From: forttusken2001 at aol.com (Chris Stone)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:10:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield Launch and lost rocket
Message-ID: <009201ca3cab$74c14da0$5e43e8e0$@com>

I want to thank everyone who helped out, particularly Carl and Tom Snell for
setting up the launch and site.  I had a great time and launched about 7
rockets.  I did lose my 10" silver saucer with a 29mm 40-120 Aerotech Casing
in it.  It has LED's all over it so hopefully it will show up at the next
launch.  It landed somewhere east of the launch pads.  Let me know if you
find it.

 

Thanks,

 

Chris Stone


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 18:21:13 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:21:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight
	Schedule
Message-ID: <B10D0F99D81346199443C65B2BBF1CFE@LaptopKrausert>


Update #3; June date moved to avoid Father's day. Added back the 2 by 2 day fly-off, moved to June 25th - 28th. 


Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule
The following is the pre-semi-final flight schedule for the 2010 season. Please, as before, review the schedule. We are close to having it finalized, and need any serious concerns raised before we lock it in for next year. Most holidays are avoided. No new moons, effecting our vending. Fathers Day and Memorial Day are the only holidays.

May - Spring Thunder (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
May 21st - 23rd
Friday - May 21st, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - May 22nd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - May 23rd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

June - Summer Skies (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
June 11th - 13th
Friday - June 11th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - June 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - June 13th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
June Fly-Off (35,500 AGL all weekend, a stretch but we'll try - all FAA can say is no)
(Each team will have specially colored flight cards, the one team with the most total Newtons wins the fly-off)
June 25th - 28th
Friday - June 25th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - June 26th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - June 27th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Monday - June 28th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
(This is a special new launch for Team BORG, Team Numb, Team Hardtail and other teams to join forces on Friday and throughout the weekend to put on a show. Others are welcome to fly. TRA members can fly Friday and Saturday, everyone else, commercial is Sunday and Monday. 
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory (we hope)

July - Desert Heat
July 16th - 18th
Friday - July 16th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - July 17th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - July 18th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

August - Desert EXtreme (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
August 13th - 15th
Friday - August 13th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - August 14th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - August 15th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 3:00pm
Bring Your Ground Support Equipment; No Trailer for this event
No vending

September - Fillible's Folly (5,400 AGL
September 10th - 12th
Friday - September 10th, Members Only Event Commercial Motors Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - September 11th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - September 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

October - Rocketober (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
October 8th - 10th
Friday - October 8th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
Saturday - October 9th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
Sunday - October 10th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed 
Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From vern_knowles at att.net  Wed Sep 23 19:34:11 2009
From: vern_knowles at att.net (Vern Knowles)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:34:11 -0600
Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010
	FlightSchedule
In-Reply-To: <B10D0F99D81346199443C65B2BBF1CFE@LaptopKrausert>
References: <B10D0F99D81346199443C65B2BBF1CFE@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <004b01ca3cbf$80f4d6f0$0400a8c0@MainPC>


Robert,

How real is the "Fly-Off" launch that is proposed for the end of June?   The reason I ask is this
newest iteration of the schedule has the Summer Skies launch just two weeks after FITS.  That's
pretty tight.  Not sure if it affects anyone else but I personally would not be able to attend
both.  Especially since we will likely have a launch in Idaho right between those two.  

Given all that, my preference will be to attend the Fly-Off launch instead of Summer Skies.
However, if the Fly-Off launch is a no go, then my vote would be to move Summer Skies back to the
usual 3rd weekend in June.

Vern Knowles
www.vernk.com




> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 
> 2010 FlightSchedule
> 
> 
> Update #3; June date moved to avoid Father's day. Added back 
> the 2 by 2 day fly-off, moved to June 25th - 28th. 
> 
> 
> Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule
> The following is the pre-semi-final flight schedule for the 
> 2010 season. Please, as before, review the schedule. We are 
> close to having it finalized, and need any serious concerns 
> raised before we lock it in for next year. Most holidays are 
> avoided. No new moons, effecting our vending. Fathers Day and 
> Memorial Day are the only holidays.
> 
> May - Spring Thunder (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
> May 21st - 23rd
> Friday - May 21st, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Saturday - May 22nd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Sunday - May 23rd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
> 
> June - Summer Skies (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
> June 11th - 13th
> Friday - June 11th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Saturday - June 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Sunday - June 13th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
> June Fly-Off (35,500 AGL all weekend, a stretch but we'll try 
> - all FAA can say is no)
> (Each team will have specially colored flight cards, the one 
> team with the most total Newtons wins the fly-off)
> June 25th - 28th
> Friday - June 25th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Saturday - June 26th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Sunday - June 27th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Monday - June 28th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
> (This is a special new launch for Team BORG, Team Numb, Team 
> Hardtail and other teams to join forces on Friday and 
> throughout the weekend to put on a show. Others are welcome 
> to fly. TRA members can fly Friday and Saturday, everyone 
> else, commercial is Sunday and Monday. 
> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory (we hope)
> 
> July - Desert Heat
> July 16th - 18th
> Friday - July 16th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Saturday - July 17th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Sunday - July 18th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
> 
> August - Desert EXtreme (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
> August 13th - 15th
> Friday - August 13th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Saturday - August 14th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Sunday - August 15th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 3:00pm
> Bring Your Ground Support Equipment; No Trailer for this event
> No vending
> 
> September - Fillible's Folly (5,400 AGL
> September 10th - 12th
> Friday - September 10th, Members Only Event Commercial Motors 
> Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Saturday - September 11th Commercial Motors, all welcome 
> 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Sunday - September 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
> 
> October - Rocketober (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
> October 8th - 10th
> Friday - October 8th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Saturday - October 9th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
> Sunday - October 10th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed 
> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 19:41:15 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:41:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010
	FlightSchedule
References: <B10D0F99D81346199443C65B2BBF1CFE@LaptopKrausert>
	<004b01ca3cbf$80f4d6f0$0400a8c0@MainPC>
Message-ID: <813545E76E2C4D49A7214CD9605EE2F4@LaptopKrausert>

Vern and all,
I'm planning to discuss at the Oct 1st meeting. I'm serious about holding a 
special event. We should after that get a better idea of the schedule. I 
started it earlier this year to save thrash.

I'll update you all once the meeting ends. Vern, I have the 3rd week of June 
noted as an alt if 2by2 fly-off doesn't materialize.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vern Knowles" <vern_knowles at att.net>
To: "'Robert Krausert'" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>; 
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>; <members at oregonrocketry.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:34 PM
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 
FlightSchedule


>
> Robert,
>
> How real is the "Fly-Off" launch that is proposed for the end of June? 
> The reason I ask is this
> newest iteration of the schedule has the Summer Skies launch just two 
> weeks after FITS.  That's
> pretty tight.  Not sure if it affects anyone else but I personally would 
> not be able to attend
> both.  Especially since we will likely have a launch in Idaho right 
> between those two.
>
> Given all that, my preference will be to attend the Fly-Off launch instead 
> of Summer Skies.
> However, if the Fly-Off launch is a no go, then my vote would be to move 
> Summer Skies back to the
> usual 3rd weekend in June.
>
> Vern Knowles
> www.vernk.com
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:21 PM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry
>> 2010 FlightSchedule
>>
>>
>> Update #3; June date moved to avoid Father's day. Added back
>> the 2 by 2 day fly-off, moved to June 25th - 28th.
>>
>>
>> Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule
>> The following is the pre-semi-final flight schedule for the
>> 2010 season. Please, as before, review the schedule. We are
>> close to having it finalized, and need any serious concerns
>> raised before we lock it in for next year. Most holidays are
>> avoided. No new moons, effecting our vending. Fathers Day and
>> Memorial Day are the only holidays.
>>
>> May - Spring Thunder (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> May 21st - 23rd
>> Friday - May 21st, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - May 22nd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - May 23rd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>>
>> June - Summer Skies (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> June 11th - 13th
>> Friday - June 11th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - June 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - June 13th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>> June Fly-Off (35,500 AGL all weekend, a stretch but we'll try
>> - all FAA can say is no)
>> (Each team will have specially colored flight cards, the one
>> team with the most total Newtons wins the fly-off)
>> June 25th - 28th
>> Friday - June 25th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - June 26th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - June 27th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Monday - June 28th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> (This is a special new launch for Team BORG, Team Numb, Team
>> Hardtail and other teams to join forces on Friday and
>> throughout the weekend to put on a show. Others are welcome
>> to fly. TRA members can fly Friday and Saturday, everyone
>> else, commercial is Sunday and Monday.
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory (we hope)
>>
>> July - Desert Heat
>> July 16th - 18th
>> Friday - July 16th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - July 17th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - July 18th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>>
>> August - Desert EXtreme (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> August 13th - 15th
>> Friday - August 13th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - August 14th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - August 15th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> Bring Your Ground Support Equipment; No Trailer for this event
>> No vending
>>
>> September - Fillible's Folly (5,400 AGL
>> September 10th - 12th
>> Friday - September 10th, Members Only Event Commercial Motors
>> Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - September 11th Commercial Motors, all welcome
>> 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - September 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>>
>> October - Rocketober (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> October 8th - 10th
>> Friday - October 8th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - October 9th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - October 10th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
> 


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Wed Sep 23 23:57:51 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:57:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <935737EA3D7D4F3DA941A67C6D02A4D6@LaptopKrausert>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com><4d5ff6a50909230628i31acc13fv2f10e8864f2b1478@mail.gmail.com><COL120-W48CC79225125F01A1C3F7CEADB0@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26700909231103t617d37yc705770f51893af9@mail.gmail.com>
	<935737EA3D7D4F3DA941A67C6D02A4D6@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <1f5637de1ce90972e566bd6e5b8b75b0.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

> Not sure if you're aware, but some people can get born on allergies to
> exopy
> chemical. I agree with the suggestion about having your son wear rubber or
> latex gloves.

Absolutely.  I'm epoxy sensitized, especially to the thin laminating
stuff.  And it's not a skin allergy.  It's the more serious generalized
immune response.

Skin protection and good ventilation!  Epoxy is not harmless stuff and it
*does* produce vapors.
+McG+


> I'm confused now. The pictures were taken after this happened? But the
> construction 2 pic shows a 54mm hole. Might be misunderstanding your
> "after
> the fact" comment.
>
> Not sure if you're aware, but some people can get born on allergies to
> exopy
> chemical. I agree with the suggestion about having your son wear rubber or
> latex gloves.
>
> Chris your son was only trying to help you. Please don't punish him. He
> saw
> watching all the work you've done. And that 4 year old wanted to help. He
> saw that adapter round ped fits in the motor round hole. He's 4 today, but
> soon he'll be 7 and 8, ready to build too. Encourage him to ask before
> "helping." Glad you got it fixed. Smile, rough up the kids hair, thank him
> for trying to help and continue on the journey. Just remember, you're
> going
> to have a 4 year old absorbing it all.
>
> Sorry for the Pay It Forward comments. My son turns 17 tomorrow, and I
> only
> hope I've taught him something. Feeling a little antique today.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> Enjoy the journey. We'll all continue climbing the never ending stairway
> to
> rocketry. Bandaids on our stubbed toes.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> To: "Carl Degner" <carl20320 at msn.com>
> Cc: "Rockets NW list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
> epoxied?
>
>
>> Yes the pics were taken after the fact.  I have been just a bit dismayed
>> on
>> what to do about it thats all.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That was my thought?  Was there workable epoxy left where your 4 year
>>> old
>>> could get to it?  If so, consider yourself lucky that only your motor
>>> mount
>>> was messed up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I thought there were pics posted a couple days ago of this MMT/rings
>>> combo
>>> already constructed? :confused:
>>>
>>> > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:28:29 -0700
>>> > From: jrcoxx at gmail.com
>>> > To: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
>>> epoxied?
>>> >
>>>  > Does your 4 year old use epoxy?
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Christopher Guenther <
>>> > guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it. My 4 year old son
>>> > > decided
>>> > > to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set
>>> > > before
>>> I
>>> > > found out. Any ideas on how to fix the issue? I could bore it out
>>> but
>>> > > I
>>> > > do
>>> > > not have a 54mm bore.
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Rockets mailing list
>>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Rockets mailing list
>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From fred.azinger at intel.com  Thu Sep 24 08:31:34 2009
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:31:34 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry
	2010	FlightSchedule
In-Reply-To: <813545E76E2C4D49A7214CD9605EE2F4@LaptopKrausert>
References: <B10D0F99D81346199443C65B2BBF1CFE@LaptopKrausert>
	<004b01ca3cbf$80f4d6f0$0400a8c0@MainPC>
	<813545E76E2C4D49A7214CD9605EE2F4@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB6191D1BE@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

Bob -- just be advised that most of the "fly-off" team members will not make your meeting....we'll be at Balls.....

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:41 PM
To: Vern Knowles; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 FlightSchedule

Vern and all,
I'm planning to discuss at the Oct 1st meeting. I'm serious about holding a 
special event. We should after that get a better idea of the schedule. I 
started it earlier this year to save thrash.

I'll update you all once the meeting ends. Vern, I have the 3rd week of June 
noted as an alt if 2by2 fly-off doesn't materialize.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vern Knowles" <vern_knowles at att.net>
To: "'Robert Krausert'" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>; 
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>; <members at oregonrocketry.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:34 PM
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 
FlightSchedule


>
> Robert,
>
> How real is the "Fly-Off" launch that is proposed for the end of June? 
> The reason I ask is this
> newest iteration of the schedule has the Summer Skies launch just two 
> weeks after FITS.  That's
> pretty tight.  Not sure if it affects anyone else but I personally would 
> not be able to attend
> both.  Especially since we will likely have a launch in Idaho right 
> between those two.
>
> Given all that, my preference will be to attend the Fly-Off launch instead 
> of Summer Skies.
> However, if the Fly-Off launch is a no go, then my vote would be to move 
> Summer Skies back to the
> usual 3rd weekend in June.
>
> Vern Knowles
> www.vernk.com
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:21 PM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry
>> 2010 FlightSchedule
>>
>>
>> Update #3; June date moved to avoid Father's day. Added back
>> the 2 by 2 day fly-off, moved to June 25th - 28th.
>>
>>
>> Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule
>> The following is the pre-semi-final flight schedule for the
>> 2010 season. Please, as before, review the schedule. We are
>> close to having it finalized, and need any serious concerns
>> raised before we lock it in for next year. Most holidays are
>> avoided. No new moons, effecting our vending. Fathers Day and
>> Memorial Day are the only holidays.
>>
>> May - Spring Thunder (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> May 21st - 23rd
>> Friday - May 21st, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - May 22nd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - May 23rd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>>
>> June - Summer Skies (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> June 11th - 13th
>> Friday - June 11th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - June 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - June 13th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>> June Fly-Off (35,500 AGL all weekend, a stretch but we'll try
>> - all FAA can say is no)
>> (Each team will have specially colored flight cards, the one
>> team with the most total Newtons wins the fly-off)
>> June 25th - 28th
>> Friday - June 25th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - June 26th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - June 27th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Monday - June 28th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> (This is a special new launch for Team BORG, Team Numb, Team
>> Hardtail and other teams to join forces on Friday and
>> throughout the weekend to put on a show. Others are welcome
>> to fly. TRA members can fly Friday and Saturday, everyone
>> else, commercial is Sunday and Monday.
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory (we hope)
>>
>> July - Desert Heat
>> July 16th - 18th
>> Friday - July 16th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - July 17th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - July 18th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>>
>> August - Desert EXtreme (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> August 13th - 15th
>> Friday - August 13th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - August 14th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - August 15th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> Bring Your Ground Support Equipment; No Trailer for this event
>> No vending
>>
>> September - Fillible's Folly (5,400 AGL
>> September 10th - 12th
>> Friday - September 10th, Members Only Event Commercial Motors
>> Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - September 11th Commercial Motors, all welcome
>> 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - September 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>>
>> October - Rocketober (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> October 8th - 10th
>> Friday - October 8th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - October 9th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - October 10th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From appusher at q.com  Thu Sep 24 13:07:28 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:07:28 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
Message-ID: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>


A thank you to them would probably be appreciated.

Bill at PSP

 

 


Dear AeroTech High Power Product Representative:
 
Please note new pricing for the high power RMS reload kits and selected
hardware, effective immediately.
 
AeroTech has located a number of lower cost sources of  Ammonium Perchlorate
(AP) which in turn has allowed us to reduce our prices. 
  
Please contact RCS with any questions you may have.
 
Thank you for your continued support!
-- 
Sincerely,

Diane Carlson
AeroTech Division
RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.
2113 W. 850 N.
Cedar City, UT 84721
Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101
Fax: 435-865-7120
Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com
www.aerotech-rocketry.com










 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me 		 	   		  

From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com  Thu Sep 24 13:14:22 2009
From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:14:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
In-Reply-To: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D204666E1AD3F843A302330F323717ED5C475F64B1@XCH-NW-13V.nw.nos.boeing.com>

and some apologies from the conspiracy theorists.



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:07 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing


A thank you to them would probably be appreciated.

Bill at PSP






Dear AeroTech High Power Product Representative:

Please note new pricing for the high power RMS reload kits and selected hardware, effective immediately.

AeroTech has located a number of lower cost sources of  Ammonium Perchlorate
(AP) which in turn has allowed us to reduce our prices.

Please contact RCS with any questions you may have.

Thank you for your continued support!
--
Sincerely,

Diane Carlson
AeroTech Division
RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.
2113 W. 850 N.
Cedar City, UT 84721
Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101
Fax: 435-865-7120
Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com
www.aerotech-rocketry.com










 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 24 16:20:59 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:20:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
In-Reply-To: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W263E6C6B2B72FDCB1FB614A6DA0@phx.gbl>


SWEET!!!!  So...Will you have a K185 handy for Oct.?

 

<mark
 
> From: appusher at q.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:07:28 +0000
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
> 
> 
> A thank you to them would probably be appreciated.
> 
> Bill at PSP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear AeroTech High Power Product Representative:
> 
> Please note new pricing for the high power RMS reload kits and selected
> hardware, effective immediately.
> 
> AeroTech has located a number of lower cost sources of Ammonium Perchlorate
> (AP) which in turn has allowed us to reduce our prices. 
> 
> Please contact RCS with any questions you may have.
> 
> Thank you for your continued support!
> -- 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Diane Carlson
> AeroTech Division
> RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.
> 2113 W. 850 N.
> Cedar City, UT 84721
> Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101
> Fax: 435-865-7120
> Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com
> www.aerotech-rocketry.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Sep 24 17:00:51 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:00:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry
	2010FlightSchedule
References: <B10D0F99D81346199443C65B2BBF1CFE@LaptopKrausert><004b01ca3cbf$80f4d6f0$0400a8c0@MainPC>
	<813545E76E2C4D49A7214CD9605EE2F4@LaptopKrausert>
	<F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB6191D1BE@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <30D6D380FA254440BA3F17BB5C382506@LaptopKrausert>

Topic can wait for November's meeting. Or maybe we should decide any way... 
Just kidding.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Azinger, Fred" <fred.azinger at intel.com>
To: "Robert Krausert" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>; "Vern Knowles" 
<vern_knowles at att.net>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; 
<members at oregonrocketry.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 
2010FlightSchedule


Bob -- just be advised that most of the "fly-off" team members will not make 
your meeting....we'll be at Balls.....



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] 
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:41 PM
To: Vern Knowles; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 
FlightSchedule

Vern and all,
I'm planning to discuss at the Oct 1st meeting. I'm serious about holding a
special event. We should after that get a better idea of the schedule. I
started it earlier this year to save thrash.

I'll update you all once the meeting ends. Vern, I have the 3rd week of June
noted as an alt if 2by2 fly-off doesn't materialize.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vern Knowles" <vern_knowles at att.net>
To: "'Robert Krausert'" <lawndart.robert at gmail.com>;
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>; <members at oregonrocketry.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:34 PM
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010
FlightSchedule


>
> Robert,
>
> How real is the "Fly-Off" launch that is proposed for the end of June?
> The reason I ask is this
> newest iteration of the schedule has the Summer Skies launch just two
> weeks after FITS.  That's
> pretty tight.  Not sure if it affects anyone else but I personally would
> not be able to attend
> both.  Especially since we will likely have a launch in Idaho right
> between those two.
>
> Given all that, my preference will be to attend the Fly-Off launch instead
> of Summer Skies.
> However, if the Fly-Off launch is a no go, then my vote would be to move
> Summer Skies back to the
> usual 3rd weekend in June.
>
> Vern Knowles
> www.vernk.com
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:21 PM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at oregonrocketry.org
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Updated3: Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry
>> 2010 FlightSchedule
>>
>>
>> Update #3; June date moved to avoid Father's day. Added back
>> the 2 by 2 day fly-off, moved to June 25th - 28th.
>>
>>
>> Pre-Semi-Final Oregon Rocketry 2010 Flight Schedule
>> The following is the pre-semi-final flight schedule for the
>> 2010 season. Please, as before, review the schedule. We are
>> close to having it finalized, and need any serious concerns
>> raised before we lock it in for next year. Most holidays are
>> avoided. No new moons, effecting our vending. Fathers Day and
>> Memorial Day are the only holidays.
>>
>> May - Spring Thunder (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> May 21st - 23rd
>> Friday - May 21st, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - May 22nd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - May 23rd Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>>
>> June - Summer Skies (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> June 11th - 13th
>> Friday - June 11th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - June 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - June 13th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>> June Fly-Off (35,500 AGL all weekend, a stretch but we'll try
>> - all FAA can say is no)
>> (Each team will have specially colored flight cards, the one
>> team with the most total Newtons wins the fly-off)
>> June 25th - 28th
>> Friday - June 25th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - June 26th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - June 27th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Monday - June 28th, Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> (This is a special new launch for Team BORG, Team Numb, Team
>> Hardtail and other teams to join forces on Friday and
>> throughout the weekend to put on a show. Others are welcome
>> to fly. TRA members can fly Friday and Saturday, everyone
>> else, commercial is Sunday and Monday.
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory (we hope)
>>
>> July - Desert Heat
>> July 16th - 18th
>> Friday - July 16th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - July 17th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - July 18th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>>
>> August - Desert EXtreme (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> August 13th - 15th
>> Friday - August 13th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - August 14th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - August 15th TRA Research Only 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> Bring Your Ground Support Equipment; No Trailer for this event
>> No vending
>>
>> September - Fillible's Folly (5,400 AGL
>> September 10th - 12th
>> Friday - September 10th, Members Only Event Commercial Motors
>> Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - September 11th Commercial Motors, all welcome
>> 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - September 12th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>>
>> October - Rocketober (20,500 AGL w/ call in 35,500 AGL)
>> October 8th - 10th
>> Friday - October 8th, TRA Research Only 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Saturday - October 9th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 10:00pm
>> Sunday - October 10th Commercial Motors, all welcome 8:00am - 3:00pm
>> GSE Equipment Required; Trailer Hauling Needed
>> Vending: Bob with Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
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From mrrominwa at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 19:19:31 2009
From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Oct mansfield launch
In-Reply-To: <c20.65891b67.37ded6ef@aol.com>
Message-ID: <512408.42815.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


to all coming to oct launch Bill and I plan on flying at this launch so We will only be open Sat from after flyers meeting to Noon for delivery of pre orders we are only doing preorders any extra motors we bring other than preorders we are flying so if you don't preorder don't come looking for one. Send preorder to sales at pugetsoundpropulsion.com. I know you must preplan and we are not getting a order before the launch so if we don't have it have alternates listed if you want 54mm is limited stock so first come get them
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Bill and Dave???????? 


      

From sealtee at cableone.net  Thu Sep 24 21:15:03 2009
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:15:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] New video of the ICU
Message-ID: <001501ca3d96$c240b610$46c22230$@net>

I just posted the video of my L2 cert flight of the I.C.U., my modified
Jayhawk, that occurred at Mansfield this last weekend. I have included not
only the onboard video but much of the ground video as well. In order to
post this 6 min video I saved it as a rather low quality video, but I think
that you might be amused with it any way, especially after the last video I
posted of the previous flight!

 

http://northwestrocketry.com/uploads/L2%20Cert%20Flight%20low%20res.wmv
<http://www.rocketsnw.com/uploads/L2%20Cert%20Flight%20low%20res.wmv> 

 

To sum it up, I was truly an awesome flight! Unlike the flight down at
Brothers last month, this one went absolutely perfect! The altitude was not
as high as I had expected on a K270, only 4300 feet, but it was beautiful!

 

I plan on flying it again next month at Mansfield, this time on a K700!
Should be entertaining!

 

Hope to see you there!

 

Cameron

NAR L2!

 


From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Thu Sep 24 23:44:56 2009
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:44:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <1f5637de1ce90972e566bd6e5b8b75b0.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com><4d5ff6a50909230628i31acc13fv2f10e8864f2b1478@mail.gmail.com><COL120-W48CC79225125F01A1C3F7CEADB0@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26700909231103t617d37yc705770f51893af9@mail.gmail.com>
	<935737EA3D7D4F3DA941A67C6D02A4D6@LaptopKrausert> 
	<1f5637de1ce90972e566bd6e5b8b75b0.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> 
Message-ID: <BAY105-W24C4210E29DC5228288408B5D90@phx.gbl>


OK ... this is something Im VERY schooled on...
   epoxies, and almost all paints hardeners, sealants and solvents of all kinds are to be handeled CAREFULLY... 
I work with alot of them on a daily basis and the MSDS sheets (if you red them)   willl scare, alarm, even make you go HOLY shirt !
 It is in the best prudence to use "nitril" (the blue ones) gloves...especially when it comes to our kids....
Laquere thinner is VERY agressive and needs thick rubber glovers and resperation and/or EXtreamly good VENTALATION...
VOC's are mostly heavier than air..so open yer garage door a bit......
    Any questions ?.....
There may be a test.......... 
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:57:51 -0700
> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
> 
> > Not sure if you're aware, but some people can get born on allergies to
> > exopy
> > chemical. I agree with the suggestion about having your son wear rubber or
> > latex gloves.
> 
> Absolutely. I'm epoxy sensitized, especially to the thin laminating
> stuff. And it's not a skin allergy. It's the more serious generalized
> immune response.
> 
> Skin protection and good ventilation! Epoxy is not harmless stuff and it
> *does* produce vapors.
> +McG+
> 
> 
> > I'm confused now. The pictures were taken after this happened? But the
> > construction 2 pic shows a 54mm hole. Might be misunderstanding your
> > "after
> > the fact" comment.
> >
> > Not sure if you're aware, but some people can get born on allergies to
> > exopy
> > chemical. I agree with the suggestion about having your son wear rubber or
> > latex gloves.
> >
> > Chris your son was only trying to help you. Please don't punish him. He
> > saw
> > watching all the work you've done. And that 4 year old wanted to help. He
> > saw that adapter round ped fits in the motor round hole. He's 4 today, but
> > soon he'll be 7 and 8, ready to build too. Encourage him to ask before
> > "helping." Glad you got it fixed. Smile, rough up the kids hair, thank him
> > for trying to help and continue on the journey. Just remember, you're
> > going
> > to have a 4 year old absorbing it all.
> >
> > Sorry for the Pay It Forward comments. My son turns 17 tomorrow, and I
> > only
> > hope I've taught him something. Feeling a little antique today.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Robert
> >
> > Enjoy the journey. We'll all continue climbing the never ending stairway
> > to
> > rocketry. Bandaids on our stubbed toes.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
> > To: "Carl Degner" <carl20320 at msn.com>
> > Cc: "Rockets NW list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
> > epoxied?
> >
> >
> >> Yes the pics were taken after the fact. I have been just a bit dismayed
> >> on
> >> what to do about it thats all.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> That was my thought? Was there workable epoxy left where your 4 year
> >>> old
> >>> could get to it? If so, consider yourself lucky that only your motor
> >>> mount
> >>> was messed up.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I thought there were pics posted a couple days ago of this MMT/rings
> >>> combo
> >>> already constructed? :confused:
> >>>
> >>> > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:28:29 -0700
> >>> > From: jrcoxx at gmail.com
> >>> > To: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> >>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
> >>> epoxied?
> >>> >
> >>> > Does your 4 year old use epoxy?
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Christopher Guenther <
> >>> > guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it. My 4 year old son
> >>> > > decided
> >>> > > to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set
> >>> > > before
> >>> I
> >>> > > found out. Any ideas on how to fix the issue? I could bore it out
> >>> but
> >>> > > I
> >>> > > do
> >>> > > not have a 54mm bore.
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Rockets mailing list
> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Fri Sep 25 01:04:00 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when epoxied?
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-W24C4210E29DC5228288408B5D90@phx.gbl>
References: <e83b26700909222233n3dab96e1vd6e841e834482709@mail.gmail.com><4d5ff6a50909230628i31acc13fv2f10e8864f2b1478@mail.gmail.com><COL120-W48CC79225125F01A1C3F7CEADB0@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26700909231103t617d37yc705770f51893af9@mail.gmail.com>
	<935737EA3D7D4F3DA941A67C6D02A4D6@LaptopKrausert>
	<1f5637de1ce90972e566bd6e5b8b75b0.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<BAY105-W24C4210E29DC5228288408B5D90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0732d4c97d55bf64a2484e68a8a91ab5.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

I always get a kick out of reading MSDS for things like water, ethanol,
sucrose...  ;-)

But epoxies are, I'm convinced, while necessary materials, still something
of an insidious evil.  "Epoxy" is a generic term--there are many
chemically different epoxies.  The best ones for aerospace uses, the
really good ones used commercially for things like stealth airplanes, are
horribly toxic carcinogens/mutagens.  Fortunately, the stuff we use as
hobbyists is much less nasty.

And epoxy doesn't *seem* to have much in the way of nasty fumes.  But it's
there!

In the end, it comes down to individual biochemistry.  Most people aren't
much affected.  Some, like me, easily develop allergies/sensitivity.  But
you don't know which group you're in until it's too late.  Then rocketry
becomes a whole lot less fun since the hobby is largely based on epoxy. 
And epoxy sensitivity has cost me more than a few potential job
applications too.

If I had a really good income, I'd chuck the little glued-together stuff
and focus on big rockets where the hobby has finally accepted aluminum as
primary structural material.

But with my actual income, I've gone the other direction to the really
little stuff where carpenter's glue is just fine.
+McG+



> OK ... this is something Im VERY schooled on...
>    epoxies, and almost all paints hardeners, sealants and solvents of all
> kinds are to be handeled CAREFULLY...
> I work with alot of them on a daily basis and the MSDS sheets (if you red
> them)   willl scare, alarm, even make you go HOLY shirt !
>  It is in the best prudence to use "nitril" (the blue ones)
> gloves...especially when it comes to our kids....
> Laquere thinner is VERY agressive and needs thick rubber glovers and
> resperation and/or EXtreamly good VENTALATION...
> VOC's are mostly heavier than air..so open yer garage door a bit......
>     Any questions ?.....
> There may be a test..........
>> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:57:51 -0700
>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
>> epoxied?
>>
>> > Not sure if you're aware, but some people can get born on allergies to
>> > exopy
>> > chemical. I agree with the suggestion about having your son wear
>> rubber or
>> > latex gloves.
>>
>> Absolutely. I'm epoxy sensitized, especially to the thin laminating
>> stuff. And it's not a skin allergy. It's the more serious generalized
>> immune response.
>>
>> Skin protection and good ventilation! Epoxy is not harmless stuff and it
>> *does* produce vapors.
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>> > I'm confused now. The pictures were taken after this happened? But the
>> > construction 2 pic shows a 54mm hole. Might be misunderstanding your
>> > "after
>> > the fact" comment.
>> >
>> > Not sure if you're aware, but some people can get born on allergies to
>> > exopy
>> > chemical. I agree with the suggestion about having your son wear
>> rubber or
>> > latex gloves.
>> >
>> > Chris your son was only trying to help you. Please don't punish him.
>> He
>> > saw
>> > watching all the work you've done. And that 4 year old wanted to help.
>> He
>> > saw that adapter round ped fits in the motor round hole. He's 4 today,
>> but
>> > soon he'll be 7 and 8, ready to build too. Encourage him to ask before
>> > "helping." Glad you got it fixed. Smile, rough up the kids hair, thank
>> him
>> > for trying to help and continue on the journey. Just remember, you're
>> > going
>> > to have a 4 year old absorbing it all.
>> >
>> > Sorry for the Pay It Forward comments. My son turns 17 tomorrow, and I
>> > only
>> > hope I've taught him something. Feeling a little antique today.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Robert
>> >
>> > Enjoy the journey. We'll all continue climbing the never ending
>> stairway
>> > to
>> > rocketry. Bandaids on our stubbed toes.
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Christopher Guenther" <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
>> > To: "Carl Degner" <carl20320 at msn.com>
>> > Cc: "Rockets NW list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:03 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
>> > epoxied?
>> >
>> >
>> >> Yes the pics were taken after the fact. I have been just a bit
>> dismayed
>> >> on
>> >> what to do about it thats all.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> That was my thought? Was there workable epoxy left where your 4 year
>> >>> old
>> >>> could get to it? If so, consider yourself lucky that only your motor
>> >>> mount
>> >>> was messed up.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I thought there were pics posted a couple days ago of this MMT/rings
>> >>> combo
>> >>> already constructed? :confused:
>> >>>
>> >>> > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:28:29 -0700
>> >>> > From: jrcoxx at gmail.com
>> >>> > To: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> >>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another
>> when
>> >>> epoxied?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Does your 4 year old use epoxy?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Christopher Guenther <
>> >>> > guentherchristopher at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > > I had my 54mm mount set to cure with rings on it. My 4 year old
>> son
>> >>> > > decided
>> >>> > > to put the 38mm adapter in while I was cooking dinner and is set
>> >>> > > before
>> >>> I
>> >>> > > found out. Any ideas on how to fix the issue? I could bore it
>> out
>> >>> but
>> >>> > > I
>> >>> > > do
>> >>> > > not have a 54mm bore.
>> >>> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Rockets mailing list
>> >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Rockets mailing list
>> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Rockets mailing list
>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/



From brodwcjj at integrity.com  Fri Sep 25 07:53:48 2009
From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:53:48 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.456.1253861107.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.456.1253861107.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <dc979888a743036727a9a94b056a3746.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>

Agreed  !!!


From: "Bloom, Steven E" <steven.e.bloom at boeing.com
>
>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing

and some apologies from the conspiracy theorists.



From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 09:08:50 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:08:50 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W263E6C6B2B72FDCB1FB614A6DA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>
	<BLU135-W263E6C6B2B72FDCB1FB614A6DA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909250908i69435051lce8c8d27c6eaefc2@mail.gmail.com>

So when will Tammie's Hobbies start lowering their prices on these Items?  I
have been in almost every day this week and seen no change in Aerotech
Pricing.



On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> SWEET!!!!  So...Will you have a K185 handy for Oct.?
>
>
>
> <mark
>
> > From: appusher at q.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:07:28 +0000
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
> >
> >
> > A thank you to them would probably be appreciated.
> >
> > Bill at PSP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear AeroTech High Power Product Representative:
> >
> > Please note new pricing for the high power RMS reload kits and selected
> > hardware, effective immediately.
> >
> > AeroTech has located a number of lower cost sources of Ammonium
> Perchlorate
> > (AP) which in turn has allowed us to reduce our prices.
> >
> > Please contact RCS with any questions you may have.
> >
> > Thank you for your continued support!
> > --
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Diane Carlson
> > AeroTech Division
> > RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.
> > 2113 W. 850 N.
> > Cedar City, UT 84721
> > Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101
> > Fax: 435-865-7120
> > Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com
> > www.aerotech-rocketry.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > Join me
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
>
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From carl20320 at msn.com  Fri Sep 25 09:18:28 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:18:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909250908i69435051lce8c8d27c6eaefc2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>
	<BLU135-W263E6C6B2B72FDCB1FB614A6DA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL120-W652875179FB732F869EC92EAD90@phx.gbl>


Patience grasshopper

 

They bought their stock on hand before the price drop.  Do you expect them to lower prices on stock that they purchased at the pre-price drop price?  They might... but they might not.
 
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:08:50 -0700
> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> To: rocfish74 at hotmail.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
> 
> So when will Tammie's Hobbies start lowering their prices on these Items? I
> have been in almost every day this week and seen no change in Aerotech
> Pricing.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > SWEET!!!! So...Will you have a K185 handy for Oct.?
> >
> >
> >
> > <mark
> >
> > > From: appusher at q.com
> > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:07:28 +0000
> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
> > >
> > >
> > > A thank you to them would probably be appreciated.
> > >
> > > Bill at PSP
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear AeroTech High Power Product Representative:
> > >
> > > Please note new pricing for the high power RMS reload kits and selected
> > > hardware, effective immediately.
> > >
> > > AeroTech has located a number of lower cost sources of Ammonium
> > Perchlorate
> > > (AP) which in turn has allowed us to reduce our prices.
> > >
> > > Please contact RCS with any questions you may have.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your continued support!
> > > --
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Diane Carlson
> > > AeroTech Division
> > > RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.
> > > 2113 W. 850 N.
> > > Cedar City, UT 84721
> > > Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101
> > > Fax: 435-865-7120
> > > Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com
> > > www.aerotech-rocketry.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > > Join me
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
> >
> > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From carl at mousetrap.com  Fri Sep 25 11:01:48 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:01:48 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC September launch report
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909251101y2b5f651ek9d8b4e52fd6ba1f5@mail.gmail.com>

Executive summary:

   - Setup the range Friday afternoon. Tom Snell did a great job of
   providing us a safe launch site.
   - Saturday started with nasty clouds. As the day progressed, the clouds
   cleared but the winds kicked up. There were some flights, but not many.
   - Sunday was beautiful: sunny with minimal wind. There were lots of high
   power flights.
   - Broke down the range around 2:30 and headed home.
   - Local land owners insist that vehicles stay on roads. Please *walk* to
   recover rockets off-road.

I arrived at the launch site around 1:45PM on Friday to find a large,
freshly mowed area to the southeast of the intersection of O Road NE and 13
Road NE. This was a little surprising as I expected it to be somewhere west
of O Road. Dale Woodford was already there with his trailer as was Tom Snell
in his truck, which had a large water tank in the bed along with a pump and
hose. I spoke with Tom and found that not only had he mowed the field the
day before, he also mowed a path up to the top of a nearby knoll, which
turned out to be the highest point around and an excellent place from which
to track rockets, both visually and through RF.

Dale and I laid out the pads in two groups where we wanted them on along the
north edge of the field. Tom and his son Mike then proceeded to pre-burn the
grass around the pads to reduce the chance of fire. What service! Not only
that, Tom also said that he was going to leave his truck, with the water
tank, at the site for the weekend. Although fire was still a concern, my
stress level over it had now dropped several magnitudes.

I think we had the range completely setup by around 4:00, around which time
Bob Yanecek arrived. The weather was perfect for flying rockets: sunny,
clear, and negligible wind. Bob was more than happy to point out (many
times) that it would have been great if the FAA waiver had been activated
for Friday. I agreed with him, but couldn't do anything about it. It's
definitely something to consider for future launches.

I took a ride with Tom Snell to the home of the neighbor to the south, with
the hopes of getting official permission to walk on his land to recover
rockets. Nobody was home, so we resolved to try again the next day.

As the afternoon progressed, people continued to arrive. By late evening the
camp had grown to 20+ and there were group festivities at a couple of the
campsites, although PSP and their fire pit were still absent. I was tired so
I went to bed early to a beautiful, clear, starry sky.

As predicted by the weather forecast, I awoke to a much different scene.
Low, grey clouds covered the sky and some nasty looking weather was
approaching from the west. Despite the low cloud deck and intermittent
spitting rain, people were flying rockets.

I took another trip with Tom Snell to the neighbor's house. The land owner
wasn't home, but his son was and we had a pleasant conversation. I asked
about permission to walk on their land and didn't get a "no", but also
didn't get a definitive "yes" either. We also stopped by another neighbor's
house to confirm that he was OK with us *walking* on his land for recovery.
Both neighbors made it clear that they didn't want any vehicles driving
off-road, which should be obvious to everybody.

Close to noon, the skies were only partly cloudy, so people were able to fly
higher, but the wind was kicking up. People continued to fly, despite the
wind until around 4:00 at which point it was blowing too hard and I closed
the range for the remainder of the day.

There were more late evening festivities, this time with the advantage of
the warmth of the PSP fire pit. The skies were now perfectly clear, but the
winds were still blowing. I don't know how many times I said, "Hey, they
wind is dieing down." followed by a huge gust to immediately prove me wrong.
I was tired again, so I turned in early.

I awoke to another significant change in weather Sunday morning. The sky was
clear blue and there was no wind. We had the waiver called in by 8:00AM and
rockets started to fill the pads. Launches were steady throughout the
morning.

Sometime after noon, I actually got the chance to fly my Performance
Rocketry Gizmo, named Tico, on a J315R. It had a nice, spin-free boost, but
the motor ejection delay was just a little longer than I had hoped. I guess
I need to drill the delay grain a little more next time. The parachute
deployed without mishap and I had a perfect compass bearing on it as it
descended behind the ridge to the south of the launch site. I projected a
waypoint in my Garmin Vista along the bearing and started walking. The
course shown on the GPS didn't feel quite right, so I wasn't prudent about
following the line. I walked parallel to it, knowing I would be able to see
the rocket. Guess what. I was wrong. After walking out *way* further than
needed, I gave Bob a call back in camp. He gave me a new line which I used
to walk straight to the rocket. Wouldn't you know it, it was right on the
course I had laid out on my GPS. That will teach me not to trust my
instruments.

By around 2:00 things were winding down. Several people has already left and
nobody else looked like they were preparing for flights. I closed the range,
got lots of help breaking it down and packing it into the minivan, and
headed for home.

Overall it was a great weekend, despite the questionable weather on
Saturday. Thanks to Tom Snell and his son Mike for all of their work
preparing the site for our use. Thanks also to everybody that came out to
fly. I have decided that running a good launch is a lot like throwing a good
party: it's all about having the right people there.

 - Carl

From dmrandall at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 11:20:55 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:20:55 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W652875179FB732F869EC92EAD90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>
	<BLU135-W263E6C6B2B72FDCB1FB614A6DA0@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26700909250908i69435051lce8c8d27c6eaefc2@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL120-W652875179FB732F869EC92EAD90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909251120w2b1937b3sedc62fcf06f40ecb@mail.gmail.com>

I know at XPRS, one vendor I bought from had two identical reloads -
one priced lower than the other - which reflected an older price (and
older date code on the propellant).

They may have to drop the price at some point on the +10% reloads, but
I'd expect them to try their best to sell off those reloads before
ordering more at the lower price.

Dave

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> Patience grasshopper
>
>
>
> They bought their stock on hand before the price drop. ?Do you expect them to lower prices on stock that they purchased at the pre-price drop price? ?They might... but they might not.
>
>> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:08:50 -0700
>> From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>> To: rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
>>
>> So when will Tammie's Hobbies start lowering their prices on these Items? I
>> have been in almost every day this week and seen no change in Aerotech
>> Pricing.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > SWEET!!!! So...Will you have a K185 handy for Oct.?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <mark
>> >
>> > > From: appusher at q.com
>> > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:07:28 +0000
>> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > A thank you to them would probably be appreciated.
>> > >
>> > > Bill at PSP
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dear AeroTech High Power Product Representative:
>> > >
>> > > Please note new pricing for the high power RMS reload kits and selected
>> > > hardware, effective immediately.
>> > >
>> > > AeroTech has located a number of lower cost sources of Ammonium
>> > Perchlorate
>> > > (AP) which in turn has allowed us to reduce our prices.
>> > >
>> > > Please contact RCS with any questions you may have.
>> > >
>> > > Thank you for your continued support!
>> > > --
>> > > Sincerely,
>> > >
>> > > Diane Carlson
>> > > AeroTech Division
>> > > RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.
>> > > 2113 W. 850 N.
>> > > Cedar City, UT 84721
>> > > Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101
>> > > Fax: 435-865-7120
>> > > Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com
>> > > www.aerotech-rocketry.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
>> > > Join me
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
>> >
>> > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From t.j.doll at att.net  Fri Sep 25 11:31:26 2009
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:31:26 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
Message-ID: <092520091831.15152.4ABD0C7E0001DD5400003B3022230704929B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

I believe 'yellow glues' such as Titebond II are seriously under-rated for rocket construction when using paper/cardboard/plywood type stuff.  Obviously it's a different story if you're talking phenolic, fiberglass, or carbon fiber/composite materials.  But for putting together an engine mount out of plywood centering rings and wound paper/cardboard body tubes (or even the fancy new 'blue tubes') or mounting 'through the wall' plywood fins, yellow glue is similar in strength to most epoxies - the only down side being cure time. 

Using an adhesive approprate for the application, rather than automatically grabbing epoxy or CA, is not only nicer to your body and the environment, it's usually cheaper and lighter.

BTW, the plywood/paper tube engine mount of my Level II Saturn V was put together with Titebond II.

Tim

>But epoxies are, I'm convinced, while necessary materials, still something
>of an insidious evil.  "Epoxy" is a generic term--there are many
>chemically different epoxies.  The best ones for aerospace uses, the
>really good ones used commercially for things like stealth airplanes, are
>horribly toxic carcinogens/mutagens.  Fortunately, the stuff we use as
>hobbyists is much less nasty.
>
>And epoxy doesn't *seem* to have much in the way of nasty fumes.  But it's
>there!
>
>If I had a really good income, I'd chuck the little glued-together stuff
>and focus on big rockets where the hobby has finally accepted aluminum as
>primary structural material.
>
>But with my actual income, I've gone the other direction to the really
>little stuff where carpenter's glue is just fine.
>+McG+

From jhadv at pacifier.com  Fri Sep 25 12:18:46 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:18:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1253905203.17860.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090925121608.00c502f0@mail.iinet.com>

I think the basic point of the matter when discussing how to disassemble a 
glued piece is you can't assuming it was glued appropriately.  If it was 
glued properly it should not be amenable to disassembly lest it disassemble 
in flight.  Therefore you get new parts and start over.     


From winningstad at comcast.net  Fri Sep 25 12:43:05 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:43:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090925121608.00c502f0@mail.iinet.com>
References: <mailman.7.1253905203.17860.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090925121608.00c502f0@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <000001ca3e18$674a9a00$35dfce00$@net>

If it is epoxy, use a soldering iron to 'undo' the epoxy???

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:19 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when

I think the basic point of the matter when discussing how to disassemble a 
glued piece is you can't assuming it was glued appropriately.  If it was 
glued properly it should not be amenable to disassembly lest it disassemble 
in flight.  Therefore you get new parts and start over.     

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From robert.krausert at intel.com  Fri Sep 25 12:54:25 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:54:25 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
In-Reply-To: <000001ca3e18$674a9a00$35dfce00$@net>
References: <mailman.7.1253905203.17860.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090925121608.00c502f0@mail.iinet.com>
	<000001ca3e18$674a9a00$35dfce00$@net>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E43664EF9@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Might be a good idea to remove the loaded motor from the MMT before inserting the soldering iron. Or you might get a burnt skidmark across the kitchen table and 4" hole in the wall. Plus your veteran neighbor outside mowing his lawn will dive to the ground and start calling for some guy named, Charlie.

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:43 PM
To: 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when

If it is epoxy, use a soldering iron to 'undo' the epoxy???

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:19 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when

I think the basic point of the matter when discussing how to disassemble a 
glued piece is you can't assuming it was glued appropriately.  If it was 
glued properly it should not be amenable to disassembly lest it disassemble 
in flight.  Therefore you get new parts and start over.     

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From appusher at q.com  Fri Sep 25 14:13:56 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:13:56 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W652875179FB732F869EC92EAD90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>
	<BLU135-W263E6C6B2B72FDCB1FB614A6DA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W244F501578B7F912C41B11DCD90@phx.gbl>


From: appusher at q.com
To: carl20320 at msn.com
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:10:17 +0000



 
> They bought their stock on hand before the price drop. Do you expect them to lower prices on stock that they purchased at the pre-price drop price? They might... but they might not.<
 
 
Thanks for pointing that out Carl.  Most of our stock is at the pre-lowered pricing.
Even with the lower pricing on HPR reloads and some hardware, not everything on the price sheet is lower.  Only selected items.
 
We plan to offer the lowered pricing for Oct PRE-PAID PRE-ORDERS.  As Dave mentioned in an earlier post......
 
We will only be bringing PRE-ORDERS to the launch plus a few extra that we plan to burn in flights of our own.  PLAN AHEAD!  GET THOSE PRE-PAID PRE-ORDERS IN EARLY!
 
We are considering pre-ordered pay-at-the-launch orders, but will be filling orders from stock on hand thru the end of the season.  Cash check or money orders mailed to reach us a week prior to the launch.
Of course, we will also accept paypal payments or credit cards thru paypal prior to the launch.  Sorry but an additional fee of 3% will be charged for paypal payments.


RECAPPING:  ONLY PRE-ORDERS WILL BE BROUGHT TO THE LAUNCH !  WE WILL NOT BE BRINGING OUR STOCK.
 
Thanks for letting us have time to fly on the last launch of the season,
 
Bill and Dave @ PSP







 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

 
> From: carl20320 at msn.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:18:28 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
> 
> 
> Patience grasshopper
> 
> 
> 
> They bought their stock on hand before the price drop. Do you expect them to lower prices on stock that they purchased at the pre-price drop price? They might... but they might not.
> 
> > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:08:50 -0700
> > From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
> > To: rocfish74 at hotmail.com
> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
> > 
> > So when will Tammie's Hobbies start lowering their prices on these Items? I
> > have been in almost every day this week and seen no change in Aerotech
> > Pricing.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > SWEET!!!! So...Will you have a K185 handy for Oct.?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <mark
> > >
> > > > From: appusher at q.com
> > > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:07:28 +0000
> > > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A thank you to them would probably be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Bill at PSP
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear AeroTech High Power Product Representative:
> > > >
> > > > Please note new pricing for the high power RMS reload kits and selected
> > > > hardware, effective immediately.
> > > >
> > > > AeroTech has located a number of lower cost sources of Ammonium
> > > Perchlorate
> > > > (AP) which in turn has allowed us to reduce our prices.
> > > >
> > > > Please contact RCS with any questions you may have.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your continued support!
> > > > --
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > Diane Carlson
> > > > AeroTech Division
> > > > RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.
> > > > 2113 W. 850 N.
> > > > Cedar City, UT 84721
> > > > Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101
> > > > Fax: 435-865-7120
> > > > Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com
> > > > www.aerotech-rocketry.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > > > Join me
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Rockets mailing list
> > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
> > >
> > > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

 		 	   		  

From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 25 14:29:26 2009
From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:29:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E43664EF9@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <mailman.7.1253905203.17860.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090925121608.00c502f0@mail.iinet.com>
	<000001ca3e18$674a9a00$35dfce00$@net>
	<0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E43664EF9@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <513054.92571.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

A skidmark acrost thetable is better than a skidmark acrost the sofa. Which is what will happen if the a skidmark is placed across the table while the wife was sitting on the sofa. As a whole I see it as a lose lose in the house that day. Not to mention the skidmark in the neigbors britches after hitting the deck.

:o)

John Hornsby




________________________________
From: "Krausert, Robert" <robert.krausert at intel.com>
To: Dennis S Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>; Paul Bogdanich <jhadv at pacifier.com>; "rockets at rocketsnw.com" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:54:25 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when

Might be a good idea to remove the loaded motor from the MMT before inserting the soldering iron. Or you might get a burnt skidmark across the kitchen table and 4" hole in the wall. Plus your veteran neighbor outside mowing his lawn will dive to the ground and start calling for some guy named, Charlie.

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:43 PM
To: 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when

If it is epoxy, use a soldering iron to 'undo' the epoxy???

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:19 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw..com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when

I think the basic point of the matter when discussing how to disassemble a 
glued piece is you can't assuming it was glued appropriately.? If it was 
glued properly it should not be amenable to disassembly lest it disassemble 
in flight.? Therefore you get new parts and start over.? ? 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Fri Sep 25 15:26:51 2009
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:26:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40909251120w2b1937b3sedc62fcf06f40ecb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU107-W25EE5B3FD1B9AEBC606DA2DCDA0@phx.gbl>
	<BLU135-W263E6C6B2B72FDCB1FB614A6DA0@phx.gbl>
	<e83b26700909250908i69435051lce8c8d27c6eaefc2@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL120-W652875179FB732F869EC92EAD90@phx.gbl>
	<6bc920e40909251120w2b1937b3sedc62fcf06f40ecb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP922C7D201DD412A8146116F4D90@phx.gbl>

You bet, and we always have the lowest price 
available, so even our "high" price was about 20% 
off retail at the launch site......... It pays to 
support your vendor at a launch site ;-)

Bob


>I know at XPRS, one vendor I bought from had two identical reloads -
>one priced lower than the other - which reflected an older price (and
>older date code on the propellant).
>
>They may have to drop the price at some point on the +10% reloads, but
>I'd expect them to try their best to sell off those reloads before
>ordering more at the lower price.
>
>Dave
>
>On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Carl Degner <carl20320 at msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Patience grasshopper
>>
>>
>>
>>  They bought their stock on hand before the 
>>price drop.  Do you expect them to lower prices 
>>on stock that they purchased at the pre-price 
>>drop price?  They might... but they might not.
>>
>>>  Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:08:50 -0700
>>>  From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com
>>>  To: rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>>>  CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>  Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
>>>
>>>  So when will Tammie's Hobbies start lowering their prices on these Items? I
>>>  have been in almost every day this week and seen no change in Aerotech
>>>  Pricing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  >
>>>  > SWEET!!!! So...Will you have a K185 handy for Oct.?
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > <mark
>>>  >
>>>  > > From: appusher at q.com
>>>  > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>  > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:07:28 +0000
>>>  > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech announces lowered pricing
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > > A thank you to them would probably be appreciated.
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Bill at PSP
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Dear AeroTech High Power Product Representative:
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Please note new pricing for the high power RMS reload kits and selected
>>>  > > hardware, effective immediately.
>>>  > >
>>>  > > AeroTech has located a number of lower cost sources of Ammonium
>>>  > Perchlorate
>>>  > > (AP) which in turn has allowed us to reduce our prices.
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Please contact RCS with any questions you may have.
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Thank you for your continued support!
>>>  > > --
>>>  > > Sincerely,
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Diane Carlson
>>>  > > AeroTech Division
>>>  > > RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.
>>>  > > 2113 W. 850 N.
>>>  > > Cedar City, UT 84721
>>>  > > Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101
>>>  > > Fax: 435-865-7120
>>>  > > Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com
>>>  > > www.aerotech-rocketry.com
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > >
>>>  > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
>>>  > > Join me
>>>  > > _______________________________________________
>>>  > > Rockets mailing list
>>>  > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>  > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>  > >
>>>  >
>>>  > _________________________________________________________________
>>>  > Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits.
>>>  >
>>>  > 
>>>http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
>>>  > _______________________________________________
>>>  > Rockets mailing list
>>>  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Rockets mailing list
>>>  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Rockets mailing list
>>  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>- Dave
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>


From faderlk at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 25 16:25:58 2009
From: faderlk at hotmail.com (william carpenter)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:25:58 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC September Launch Photos and Video
Message-ID: <COL104-W63BFD3D578E19E2816BEADBCD90@phx.gbl>


Hello All,

 

I took a little under fifty photos at the last WAC launch. I also got a video of my Priority Stealth.

 

If you would like me to send you photos of your rockets, then shoot me an e-mail and I'll gladly send them to you. All I ask is that you give me credit if you use them anywhere.

 

If you don't see your rocket in the album, feel free to ask me anyway. My father was also taking photos, so I may have some to send you.

 

Here's the link to the photo album

 

http://travel.webshots.com/album/574798093quFUel

 

and my video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZQn1cM3Or8

 

The photos are very large, high quality images. I suggest that you view them in full screen to reduce the pixilization.

 

Regards, William Carpenter

 

 

 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009

From appusher at q.com  Fri Sep 25 16:52:16 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:52:16 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC September Launch Photos and Video
In-Reply-To: <COL104-W63BFD3D578E19E2816BEADBCD90@phx.gbl>
References: <COL104-W63BFD3D578E19E2816BEADBCD90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W19BBE464FD587C63EDAB2FDCD90@phx.gbl>


William,

Unfortunate happenstance, but very nice shot of the Lulu shred at it's orginal size.

 

Bill at PSP











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: faderlk at hotmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:25:58 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC September Launch Photos and Video
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> 
> 
> I took a little under fifty photos at the last WAC launch. I also got a video of my Priority Stealth.
> 
> 
> 
> If you would like me to send you photos of your rockets, then shoot me an e-mail and I'll gladly send them to you. All I ask is that you give me credit if you use them anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't see your rocket in the album, feel free to ask me anyway. My father was also taking photos, so I may have some to send you.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the link to the photo album
> 
> 
> 
> http://travel.webshots.com/album/574798093quFUel
> 
> 
> 
> and my video.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZQn1cM3Or8
> 
> 
> 
> The photos are very large, high quality images. I suggest that you view them in full screen to reduce the pixilization.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards, William Carpenter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 16:57:00 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:57:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda October 1st, 2009
Message-ID: <654E214E56E1491FAD5A2B74A70C9224@LaptopKrausert>

The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on October 1st, 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. 

Where: Giovanni's 
12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005

Agenda:
7:30 : Welcome New Members
7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville Announcement [Packard]
7:40 : Rocketober Announcement [Krausert]
7:45 : Financial Update [Moscoe]
7:50 : Sheridan Recap [Krausert]
7:55 : Show & Tell by Members [Guenther]
8:10 : Show & Tell by Members [Bogdanich]


Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday October 1st, 2009 at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. 

Cheers,
Robert
OregonRocketry President

From keithp at keithp.com  Fri Sep 25 21:41:12 2009
From: keithp at keithp.com (Keith Packard)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:41:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda October 1st, 2009
In-Reply-To: <654E214E56E1491FAD5A2B74A70C9224@LaptopKrausert>
References: <654E214E56E1491FAD5A2B74A70C9224@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <1253940031-sup-6179@keithp.com>

Excerpts from Robert Krausert's message of Fri Sep 25 16:57:00 -0700 2009:

> 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville Announcement [Packard]

I'm off to colorado for a rocket launch, so I'll be missing the
meeting, I'm afraid. At least it's not for work :-)
-- 
keith.packard at intel.com

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 21:46:51 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:46:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda October 1st, 2009
References: <654E214E56E1491FAD5A2B74A70C9224@LaptopKrausert>
	<1253940031-sup-6179@keithp.com>
Message-ID: <B142D20BBB164EBD9417970D67B1D4FF@LaptopKrausert>

I'll advertise for you. Have fun.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Packard" <keithp at keithp.com>
To: "rockets" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda October 1st, 2009


> Excerpts from Robert Krausert's message of Fri Sep 25 16:57:00 -0700 2009:
>
>> 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville Announcement [Packard]
>
> I'm off to colorado for a rocket launch, so I'll be missing the
> meeting, I'm afraid. At least it's not for work :-)
> -- 
> keith.packard at intel.com
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Fri Sep 25 22:44:12 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:44:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you get one tube out of another when
In-Reply-To: <092520091831.15152.4ABD0C7E0001DD5400003B3022230704929B0A02D29B9B0EBF
	0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
References: <092520091831.15152.4ABD0C7E0001DD5400003B3022230704929B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
Message-ID: <f790542a46b1c652d6ded77e57b4ffb9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Being a 'west sider' I'd prefer to have all my rockets immune to water. 
That said, I've dried out fairly wet paper/carpenter glue rockets and had
'em still work fine.

And I've never had yellow glue fail first--it's always the
paper/cardboard, balsa, or even plywood.

+McG+


> I believe 'yellow glues' such as Titebond II are seriously under-rated for
> rocket construction when using paper/cardboard/plywood type stuff.
> Obviously it's a different story if you're talking phenolic, fiberglass,
> or carbon fiber/composite materials.  But for putting together an engine
> mount out of plywood centering rings and wound paper/cardboard body tubes
> (or even the fancy new 'blue tubes') or mounting 'through the wall'
> plywood fins, yellow glue is similar in strength to most epoxies - the
> only down side being cure time.
>
> Using an adhesive approprate for the application, rather than
> automatically grabbing epoxy or CA, is not only nicer to your body and the
> environment, it's usually cheaper and lighter.
>
> BTW, the plywood/paper tube engine mount of my Level II Saturn V was put
> together with Titebond II.
>
> Tim
>
>>But epoxies are, I'm convinced, while necessary materials, still
>> something
>>of an insidious evil.  "Epoxy" is a generic term--there are many
>>chemically different epoxies.  The best ones for aerospace uses, the
>>really good ones used commercially for things like stealth airplanes, are
>>horribly toxic carcinogens/mutagens.  Fortunately, the stuff we use as
>>hobbyists is much less nasty.
>>
>>And epoxy doesn't *seem* to have much in the way of nasty fumes.  But
>> it's
>>there!
>>
>>If I had a really good income, I'd chuck the little glued-together stuff
>>and focus on big rockets where the hobby has finally accepted aluminum as
>>primary structural material.
>>
>>But with my actual income, I've gone the other direction to the really
>>little stuff where carpenter's glue is just fine.
>>+McG+
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com  Fri Sep 25 23:51:58 2009
From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:51:58 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
Message-ID: <bbb.597bf023.37ef140e@aol.com>

Good luck with the K or better rule getting enforced at BALLS as last year 
we were all subjected to Barbie jerk on H's.

Lou


From winningstad at comcast.net  Sat Sep 26 03:07:22 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 03:07:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] XPRS
In-Reply-To: <bbb.597bf023.37ef140e@aol.com>
References: <bbb.597bf023.37ef140e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008001ca3e91$26723780$7356a680$@net>

WTBD???

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of IBELCHLOUD at aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:52 PM
To: fred.azinger at intel.com; sb at berfield.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] XPRS

Good luck with the K or better rule getting enforced at BALLS as last year 
we were all subjected to Barbie jerk on H's.

Lou

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From appusher at q.com  Sat Sep 26 09:46:57 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:46:57 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Inventory list for Mansfield Oct Launch (AD)
Message-ID: <BLU107-W21729C1DD226C50E20009BDCD80@phx.gbl>


Here is a list of reloads to choose from for the Oct WAC launch at Mansfield.

Get your orders in early.  Pre-paid orders are requested and will be offered the current 10% reduction in pricing.

Pre-orders with payment at the launch will be considered with prior arrangement.

 

Remember.  We are only bringing pre-orders to the launch.  We have a number of projects to fly ourselves.

We will be doing a demo flight of the new AT End burners.  We have a few in stock along with a few of the new forward closures required.

 

Hope to see you at the launch and around the camp fire during the cooler evenings.

 

Dave and Bill at PSP

The additional "C" designation indicates Promotional cert reload

 






5
G339N

1
I305FJ

4
G69N

1
I366R

7
H112J

4
I49N

3
H123W

2
I600R

2
H123WC

4
J115W

3
H148R

3
J135W

2
H210R

1
J2135N

3
H220T

1
J250FJ

5
H242T

1
J275W

1
H250G

3
J350W

4
H669N

1
J350WC

1
H73J

2
J401FJ

3
H999N

1
J415W

1
I117FJ

1
J420R

3
I154J

2
J500G

3
I161W

1
J540W

1
I195J

1
J570W

7
I200W

2
J575FJ

2
I211W

1
J800T

2
I215R

1
J825R

6
I218R

3
J90W

1
I225FJ

1
K695R

2
I245G

1
K700W

1
I284W

1
K805G

2
I285R










 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me 		 	   		  

From davewalp at comcast.net  Sun Sep 27 20:12:13 2009
From: davewalp at comcast.net (David Walp)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:12:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Newbies at Mansfield
Message-ID: <001401ca3fe9$7a4061d0$6ec12570$@net>

HI,

 

My son and I are planning to attend the launch in Mansfield on 24-Oct (just
Saturday because of other commitments on Sunday).

 

In addition to a number of model rockets, we have three mid-power rockets we
would like to fly.  So what do we need to in order to fly?

 

thank you!

_dave_  


From carl at mousetrap.com  Sun Sep 27 20:29:15 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:29:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Newbies at Mansfield
In-Reply-To: <001401ca3fe9$7a4061d0$6ec12570$@net>
References: <001401ca3fe9$7a4061d0$6ec12570$@net>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909272029q22729d99qe422430c87008192@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:12 PM, David Walp <davewalp at comcast.net> wrote:

> HI,
>
> My son and I are planning to attend the launch in Mansfield on 24-Oct (just
> Saturday because of other commitments on Sunday).
>
> In addition to a number of model rockets, we have three mid-power rockets
> we
> would like to fly.  So what do we need to in order to fly?
>

Motors.

The launch is being hosted by Washington Aerospace Club. We will be
collecting $10/family/weekend from non-members for range fees. If you have
not attended a WAC launch this year, each attendee will also need to provide
a signed liability waiver (
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php).

Other than that, you just need to show up ready to fly and have a good time.
Looking forward to seeing you there.

 - Carl

From sealtee at cableone.net  Sun Sep 27 20:30:23 2009
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:30:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Getting into EX...
Message-ID: <002401ca3fec$03b6e4f0$0b24aed0$@net>

Here's one for  you EX'ers who may well be  scrambling to get ready for
BALLS right now. OK, so I got my NAR L2 last weekend, Woo-hoo, does this
mean that I am "qualified" to also be L2 TRA as well? Will I need to also
cert for that as well? What do I need to do? If I do need to cert for my TRA
L2 as well, will there be anyone at Mansfield in October for me to take the
test and will there be two TRA L2's there to witness another cert flight? Am
I correct that I need to be TRA L2 before I can fly EX?  I am planning to be
at the Mansfield launch this October and I plan on flying the "ICU" Jayhawk
again, this time on a K700 and it could just as well be my TRA L2 cert
flight if necessary.

 

My real want is to be able to start experimenting with EX motors over the
winter and be able to fly them with the WAC group and once with the OROC
guys at  Brothers this next year (Maybe the SPARC group as well?). I have
threatened to crash a motor making party with Ray and Bob this fall to see
what it's all about and I just want to know what I need to do right now. 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Cameron Tinder

NAR L2 & TRA L1?


From carl at mousetrap.com  Sun Sep 27 20:44:25 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:44:25 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Getting into EX...
In-Reply-To: <002401ca3fec$03b6e4f0$0b24aed0$@net>
References: <002401ca3fec$03b6e4f0$0b24aed0$@net>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909272044h7a2e8034i48d4b1887be86fe3@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net>wrote:

> Here's one for  you EX'ers who may well be  scrambling to get ready for
> BALLS right now. OK, so I got my NAR L2 last weekend, Woo-hoo, does this
> mean that I am "qualified" to also be L2 TRA as well? Will I need to also
> cert for that as well? What do I need to do? If I do need to cert for my
> TRA
> L2 as well, will there be anyone at Mansfield in October for me to take the
> test and will there be two TRA L2's there to witness another cert flight?
> Am
> I correct that I need to be TRA L2 before I can fly EX?  I am planning to
> be
> at the Mansfield launch this October and I plan on flying the "ICU" Jayhawk
> again, this time on a K700 and it could just as well be my TRA L2 cert
> flight if necessary.
>

Cameron, all you need to do is join TRA; if you are NAR L2, you will
automatically be TRA L2. I thought the TRA membership form had a spot for
your NAR number and certification level, but I can't find it on the current
on-line form and it doesn't look like you can add notes if you via PayPal.
Hopefully, one of the local prefects will have a more complete answer for
you.

 - Carl

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 20:47:49 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:47:49 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Getting into EX...
References: <002401ca3fec$03b6e4f0$0b24aed0$@net>
Message-ID: <872E8CA878CD46D0BC506B415053B21C@LaptopKrausert>

Cam,
The two nat'l orgs transfer cert levels upon request. As long you're a 
member of both at the time. You'll need to write or email NAR about how to 
transfer cert levels.

No additional L2 cert for coming to us in TRA. I too hold both NAR and TRA. 
But only TRA has my cert level. That's my choice. You can transfer.

Regarding EX. You are correct TRA L2 and higher. Be safe, have fun.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cameron Tinder" <sealtee at cableone.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:30 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Getting into EX...


> Here's one for  you EX'ers who may well be  scrambling to get ready for
> BALLS right now. OK, so I got my NAR L2 last weekend, Woo-hoo, does this
> mean that I am "qualified" to also be L2 TRA as well? Will I need to also
> cert for that as well? What do I need to do? If I do need to cert for my 
> TRA
> L2 as well, will there be anyone at Mansfield in October for me to take 
> the
> test and will there be two TRA L2's there to witness another cert flight? 
> Am
> I correct that I need to be TRA L2 before I can fly EX?  I am planning to 
> be
> at the Mansfield launch this October and I plan on flying the "ICU" 
> Jayhawk
> again, this time on a K700 and it could just as well be my TRA L2 cert
> flight if necessary.
>
>
>
> My real want is to be able to start experimenting with EX motors over the
> winter and be able to fly them with the WAC group and once with the OROC
> guys at  Brothers this next year (Maybe the SPARC group as well?). I have
> threatened to crash a motor making party with Ray and Bob this fall to see
> what it's all about and I just want to know what I need to do right now.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
> Cameron Tinder
>
> NAR L2 & TRA L1?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Sun Sep 27 20:51:43 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:51:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Getting into EX...
In-Reply-To: <002401ca3fec$03b6e4f0$0b24aed0$@net>
References: <002401ca3fec$03b6e4f0$0b24aed0$@net>
Message-ID: <007e01ca3fee$ff71b9d0$fe552d70$@net>

Cameron,

NAR and TRA will recognize the other's certification.  Once you get your NAR
L2 card you can send a copy to TRA headquarters to get your TRA membership
updated to L2.  Same for L1 and L3 going either direction.  Of course you
have to be a paid member of both organizations to make it work.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Cameron Tinder
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:30 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Getting into EX...

Here's one for  you EX'ers who may well be  scrambling to get ready for
BALLS right now. OK, so I got my NAR L2 last weekend, Woo-hoo, does this
mean that I am "qualified" to also be L2 TRA as well? Will I need to also
cert for that as well? What do I need to do? If I do need to cert for my TRA
L2 as well, will there be anyone at Mansfield in October for me to take the
test and will there be two TRA L2's there to witness another cert flight? Am
I correct that I need to be TRA L2 before I can fly EX?  I am planning to be
at the Mansfield launch this October and I plan on flying the "ICU" Jayhawk
again, this time on a K700 and it could just as well be my TRA L2 cert
flight if necessary.

 

My real want is to be able to start experimenting with EX motors over the
winter and be able to fly them with the WAC group and once with the OROC
guys at  Brothers this next year (Maybe the SPARC group as well?). I have
threatened to crash a motor making party with Ray and Bob this fall to see
what it's all about and I just want to know what I need to do right now. 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Cameron Tinder

NAR L2 & TRA L1?

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From sealtee at cableone.net  Sun Sep 27 21:01:59 2009
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:01:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Getting into EX...
Message-ID: <002f01ca3ff0$6e1aee00$4a50ca00$@net>

Thanks to all that have responded so quickly! Since I am already a member of
both NAR and TRA ,it seems that all I have to do is contact TRA with the
proper paper work and it's a done deal!

 

Thank you!

 

Cameron


From ds at pacificrocketry.com  Sun Sep 27 21:08:31 2009
From: ds at pacificrocketry.com (Denny Smith)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:08:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Getting into EX...
In-Reply-To: <002f01ca3ff0$6e1aee00$4a50ca00$@net>
References: <002f01ca3ff0$6e1aee00$4a50ca00$@net>
Message-ID: <000001ca3ff1$57aa0970$06fe1c50$@com>

You don't even need "paperwork".  Just take a photo copy of your NAR L2 card
when it comes, and mail it into TRA HQ with a small note asking them to add
you to the TRA L2 list.  That's it.

Denny

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Cameron Tinder
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 9:02 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Getting into EX...

Thanks to all that have responded so quickly! Since I am already a member of
both NAR and TRA ,it seems that all I have to do is contact TRA with the
proper paper work and it's a done deal!

 

Thank you!

 

Cameron

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From sealtee at cableone.net  Mon Sep 28 07:57:28 2009
From: sealtee at cableone.net (Cameron Tinder)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:57:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone...
Message-ID: <004101ca404b$ff90e050$feb2a0f0$@net>

Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone, how will the rest of us be able to see
pictorially and be able to read about some of what goes on down at BALLS?  I
sure hope the NW BALLS crowd will share pictures and stories! (Of particular
interest is how that 38mm "O" motor flies!  : )

 

Best of luck to all that are attending BALLS!

 

Cameron


From dmrandall at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 08:17:18 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:17:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone...
In-Reply-To: <004101ca404b$ff90e050$feb2a0f0$@net>
References: <004101ca404b$ff90e050$feb2a0f0$@net>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40909280817l63f8758fr2e0d097e96a01806@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know if Rockets Magazine is planning on attending, but Mark
Canepa was at XPRS and was planning on submitting photos (and likely
stories) to Rockets Magazine.  Maybe he'll be at BALLS as well...

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net> wrote:
> Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone, how will the rest of us be able to see
> pictorially and be able to read about some of what goes on down at BALLS? ?I
> sure hope the NW BALLS crowd will share pictures and stories! (Of particular
> interest is how that 38mm "O" motor flies! ?: )
>
>
>
> Best of luck to all that are attending BALLS!
>
>
>
> Cameron
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From jhadv at pacifier.com  Mon Sep 28 10:30:48 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:30:48 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone
In-Reply-To: <mailman.528.1254149863.7681.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090928103018.00c1cfc8@mail.iinet.com>

At 07:57 AM 9/28/2009 -0700, you wrote:
>Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone, how will the rest of us be able to see
>pictorially and be able to read about some of what goes on down at BALLS?



Uhhhhh Rockets Magazine.



From carl at mousetrap.com  Mon Sep 28 12:03:48 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:03:48 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace October meeting
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0909281203k4bf6f071g71eca4cdeef9a256@mail.gmail.com>

The Washington Aerospace October meeting will be held this Saturday, October
3rd. Andy will be at BALLS and won't be able to let us into the church, so
we *will be holding the meeting in building 43 of the Microsoft Redmond
campus* (http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/meetings.php#ms). The meeting
will start at the regular time: 7:00PM. Please try to arrive before 7:00 so
that you are sure to get into the building. If you have any trouble, you can
give me a call at 425-785-3751.
The only two agenda items currently up for discussion are a review of the
September launch and discussion of the October launch. Please bring projects
for show-and-tell and any questions you may have.

Hope to see you there.

 - Carl

From jhadv at pacifier.com  Mon Sep 28 12:32:05 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:32:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1254164405.28079.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090928122807.00c4feb8@mail.iinet.com>

"I don't know if Rockets Magazine is planning on attending"

Oh please do try.  Neil McGivery is scheduled to fly and Rockets Magazine 
always does a big BALLS issue and the last few years a DVD.  Every year 
that I have been reading anyway.  The violin music on that full size Nike 
Smoke that burned in last year was one of the best video clips I have seen 
in ages.  XPRS and LDRS are good launches but side-shows compared to 
black-rock.


From edroweva at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 28 14:52:14 2009
From: edroweva at earthlink.net (Ed Rowe)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:52:14 -0400
Subject: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone...
References: <004101ca404b$ff90e050$feb2a0f0$@net>
	<6bc920e40909280817l63f8758fr2e0d097e96a01806@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <708D386B82534327888B7220B06E199C@rowe3a5c1af9f7>

Rockets Magazine will be covering BALLS.
-Ed


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>
To: "Cameron Tinder" <sealtee at cableone.net>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone...


I don't know if Rockets Magazine is planning on attending, but Mark
Canepa was at XPRS and was planning on submitting photos (and likely
stories) to Rockets Magazine.  Maybe he'll be at BALLS as well...

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net> 
wrote:
> Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone, how will the rest of us be able to see
> pictorially and be able to read about some of what goes on down at BALLS? 
> I
> sure hope the NW BALLS crowd will share pictures and stories! (Of 
> particular
> interest is how that 38mm "O" motor flies! : )
>
>
>
> Best of luck to all that are attending BALLS!
>
>
>
> Cameron
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets




From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 17:13:24 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:13:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone...
References: <004101ca404b$ff90e050$feb2a0f0$@net><6bc920e40909280817l63f8758fr2e0d097e96a01806@mail.gmail.com>
	<708D386B82534327888B7220B06E199C@rowe3a5c1af9f7>
Message-ID: <507B6C48C0C54FF88C8E7767870507B8@LaptopKrausert>

Since Rockets Magazine is not Adult Oriented in theme, I'm glad about that.

LOL ;-)

Cheers,
Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Rowe" <edroweva at earthlink.net>
To: "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>; "Cameron Tinder" 
<sealtee at cableone.net>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone...


> Rockets Magazine will be covering BALLS.
> -Ed
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave Randall" <dmrandall at gmail.com>
> To: "Cameron Tinder" <sealtee at cableone.net>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone...
>
>
> I don't know if Rockets Magazine is planning on attending, but Mark
> Canepa was at XPRS and was planning on submitting photos (and likely
> stories) to Rockets Magazine.  Maybe he'll be at BALLS as well...
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Cameron Tinder <sealtee at cableone.net> 
> wrote:
>> Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone, how will the rest of us be able to see
>> pictorially and be able to read about some of what goes on down at BALLS? 
>> I
>> sure hope the NW BALLS crowd will share pictures and stories! (Of 
>> particular
>> interest is how that 38mm "O" motor flies! : )
>>
>>
>>
>> Best of luck to all that are attending BALLS!
>>
>>
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> - Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From sb at berfield.com  Mon Sep 28 17:21:46 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:21:46 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim issue
Message-ID: <W8360410190173701254183706@webmail12>

Any of you savvy pc guys know what this means an dhow to avoid it? I installed the latest update to Rocksim 9 and now when I try ti run the progrma I get a dialog that says "The applicaiton has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect..." I found some stuff on line about needing the latest VC++ redist package -- which I already have installed.

ANy ideas?



From whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 17:44:35 2009
From: whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com (Dietrich Podmajersky)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:44:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim issue
In-Reply-To: <W8360410190173701254183706@webmail12>
References: <W8360410190173701254183706@webmail12>
Message-ID: <ccfdcba70909281744u487d0004i4706f7154e47a73b@mail.gmail.com>

Side by side issues usually aren't to hard to fix.

There should be a event in the event log with details. Send me mail off list
and I'll do what I can to help get you up and running.

-Dietrich

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com> wrote:

> Any of you savvy pc guys know what this means an dhow to avoid it? I
> installed the latest update to Rocksim 9 and now when I try ti run the
> progrma I get a dialog that says "The applicaiton has failed to start
> because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect..." I found some stuff
> on line about needing the latest VC++ redist package -- which I already have
> installed.
>
> ANy ideas?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Mon Sep 28 19:31:29 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:31:29 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090928122807.00c4feb8@mail.iinet.com>
References: <mailman.7.1254164405.28079.rockets@rocketsnw.com>,
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090928122807.00c4feb8@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209914EE9A8D@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Much better magizine than ER anyway.  At least there is editing for spelling and complete sentences ;)

b
________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Paul Bogdanich [jhadv at pacifier.com]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:32 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone

"I don't know if Rockets Magazine is planning on attending"

Oh please do try.  Neil McGivery is scheduled to fly and Rockets Magazine
always does a big BALLS issue and the last few years a DVD.  Every year
that I have been reading anyway.  The violin music on that full size Nike
Smoke that burned in last year was one of the best video clips I have seen
in ages.  XPRS and LDRS are good launches but side-shows compared to
black-rock.

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 22:10:53 2009
From: whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com (Dietrich Podmajersky)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:10:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim issue
In-Reply-To: <ccfdcba70909281744u487d0004i4706f7154e47a73b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <W8360410190173701254183706@webmail12>
	<ccfdcba70909281744u487d0004i4706f7154e47a73b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ccfdcba70909282210l7f9e1dcdx57c9371583070e0b@mail.gmail.com>

ok I installed the update for Version: 9.0.6f81 (had bld 80) and got the SXS
errors.  Looking into it the app is expecting to have the ATL security
updates from the VS2005sp1 redist.

Go here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=766a6af7-ec73-40ff-b072-9112bab119c2&displaylang=en
and install the x86 update. (if you are running x64 you can also install the
x64 update but the x86 is the one needed to get the latest rocsim
functioning again)

-Dietrich



On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky <
whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com> wrote:

> Side by side issues usually aren't to hard to fix.
>
> There should be a event in the event log with details. Send me mail off
> list and I'll do what I can to help get you up and running.
>
> -Dietrich
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com> wrote:
>
>> Any of you savvy pc guys know what this means an dhow to avoid it? I
>> installed the latest update to Rocksim 9 and now when I try ti run the
>> progrma I get a dialog that says "The applicaiton has failed to start
>> because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect..." I found some stuff
>> on line about needing the latest VC++ redist package -- which I already have
>> installed.
>>
>> ANy ideas?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>

From jackhydrazine at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 29 09:16:18 2009
From: jackhydrazine at earthlink.net (Jack Hydrazine)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:16:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090928122807.00c4feb8@mail.iinet.com>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090928122807.00c4feb8@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <4AC232D2.4080402@earthlink.net>

The Rockets Magazine BALLS-17 video montage is pretty good.
http://www.libertylaunchsystems.com/Video/2008-09-BALLS17/BALLS17.wmv



Paul Bogdanich wrote:
> "I don't know if Rockets Magazine is planning on attending"
>
> Oh please do try.  Neil McGivery is scheduled to fly and Rockets 
> Magazine always does a big BALLS issue and the last few years a DVD.  
> Every year that I have been reading anyway.  The violin music on that 
> full size Nike Smoke that burned in last year was one of the best 
> video clips I have seen in ages.  XPRS and LDRS are good launches but 
> side-shows compared to black-rock.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  
>


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 09:45:39 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:45:39 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Now that Extreme Rocketry is gone
In-Reply-To: <4AC232D2.4080402@earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090928122807.00c4feb8@mail.iinet.com>
	<4AC232D2.4080402@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e83b26700909290945x1976abf2h11e1a1eb25d7294b@mail.gmail.com>

This is an awesome video!



On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Jack Hydrazine <jackhydrazine at earthlink.net
> wrote:

> The Rockets Magazine BALLS-17 video montage is pretty good.
> http://www.libertylaunchsystems.com/Video/2008-09-BALLS17/BALLS17.wmv
>
>
>
> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
>
>> "I don't know if Rockets Magazine is planning on attending"
>>
>> Oh please do try.  Neil McGivery is scheduled to fly and Rockets Magazine
>> always does a big BALLS issue and the last few years a DVD.  Every year that
>> I have been reading anyway.  The violin music on that full size Nike Smoke
>> that burned in last year was one of the best video clips I have seen in
>> ages.  XPRS and LDRS are good launches but side-shows compared to
>> black-rock.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From sb at berfield.com  Tue Sep 29 10:28:25 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:28:25 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim issue
In-Reply-To: <ccfdcba70909281744u487d0004i4706f7154e47a73b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <W8360410190173701254183706@webmail12>
	<ccfdcba70909281744u487d0004i4706f7154e47a73b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001ca412a$44ec7720$cec56560$@com>

Got it fixed. Apogee said they had a corrupt file in the package. New files
are up and they work.

 

From: Dietrich Podmajersky [mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:45 PM
To: Scott Berfield
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocksim issue

 

Side by side issues usually aren't to hard to fix.  

There should be a event in the event log with details. Send me mail off list
and I'll do what I can to help get you up and running.  

-Dietrich 

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com> wrote:

Any of you savvy pc guys know what this means an dhow to avoid it? I
installed the latest update to Rocksim 9 and now when I try ti run the
progrma I get a dialog that says "The applicaiton has failed to start
because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect..." I found some stuff
on line about needing the latest VC++ redist package -- which I already have
installed.

ANy ideas?


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

 


From guentherchristopher at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 14:45:29 2009
From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:45:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you ground test deployment?
Message-ID: <e83b26700909291445l25ee1c96g952672b9501741d9@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to know how to ground test engine ejection deployment.  Anyone
have any idea how to do it?

From rbraibish at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 15:07:19 2009
From: rbraibish at yahoo.com (Robert Braibish)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:07:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you ground test deployment?
In-Reply-To: <e83b26700909291445l25ee1c96g952672b9501741d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e83b26700909291445l25ee1c96g952672b9501741d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <973860.68313.qm@web43513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Chris the easiest way (for an engine mounted ejection charge like I think you have) is to route an e-match down through the ejection charge cup of you forward closure, through your motor casing, if it fits loosely at all, use a little modeling clay to fill the void (from the inside)? fill the cup at the top of your motor casing with black powder as you normally would and prep your rocket for "flight" with all the laundry (to get an accurate simulation) and then lay it out in a nice big open yard and prop it up so the nose end is lifted a bit.? Vern Knowles has a page on his site (vernk dot com)?for calculating charge size and the information is available in other areas out there too...? 




________________________________
From: Christopher Guenther <guentherchristopher at gmail.com>
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:45:29 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] How do you ground test deployment?

I would like to know how to ground test engine ejection deployment.? Anyone
have any idea how to do it?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


      

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 21:30:18 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:30:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC Salute to BALLS 2009 Participants
Message-ID: <2C2CF71E424B4ABBB212D5EA6566C388@LaptopKrausert>

We at OregonRocketry wish everyone participating in BALLS this weekend a great experience. Your opportunity to push the envelope, rattle nerves, and seek a new experience in the sport of rocketry. I know many are planning some amazing flights. Some pushing the edge of class 2 rockets. Some actually deep inside class 3 aerospace flights. Take care, be safe, and push your limits. 

All we ask for are launch reports. We in the NW are known for great launch reports. We need to keep the consistency up. 

BALLS attendees; have a great time. We at OregonRocketry wish the best. A salute to all those participating. 

Cheers,
Robert
OROC President

From vincesimoneau at msn.com  Tue Sep 29 23:23:03 2009
From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:23:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC September launch report
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0909251101y2b5f651ek9d8b4e52fd6ba1f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e068dfbd0909251101y2b5f651ek9d8b4e52fd6ba1f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-W42A3FE4646E1178A9AD7CEB5D40@phx.gbl>


Thanks, Carl for the details....Sorry Sean and I couldn't make it ! We all remember the F.I.T.S.  "sparky fire"...  I'm glad to know you'all were prepared !!! 

    Thanks to Tom for the GREAT hospitality ! Miss the PSP fire pit ...Hope to see you Guys & Gals in October....

           Vinny 
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:01:48 -0700
> From: carl at mousetrap.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org
> Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC September launch report
> 
> Executive summary:
> 
> - Setup the range Friday afternoon. Tom Snell did a great job of
> providing us a safe launch site.
> - Saturday started with nasty clouds. As the day progressed, the clouds
> cleared but the winds kicked up. There were some flights, but not many.
> - Sunday was beautiful: sunny with minimal wind. There were lots of high
> power flights.
> - Broke down the range around 2:30 and headed home.
> - Local land owners insist that vehicles stay on roads. Please *walk* to
> recover rockets off-road.
> 
> I arrived at the launch site around 1:45PM on Friday to find a large,
> freshly mowed area to the southeast of the intersection of O Road NE and 13
> Road NE. This was a little surprising as I expected it to be somewhere west
> of O Road. Dale Woodford was already there with his trailer as was Tom Snell
> in his truck, which had a large water tank in the bed along with a pump and
> hose. I spoke with Tom and found that not only had he mowed the field the
> day before, he also mowed a path up to the top of a nearby knoll, which
> turned out to be the highest point around and an excellent place from which
> to track rockets, both visually and through RF.
> 
> Dale and I laid out the pads in two groups where we wanted them on along the
> north edge of the field. Tom and his son Mike then proceeded to pre-burn the
> grass around the pads to reduce the chance of fire. What service! Not only
> that, Tom also said that he was going to leave his truck, with the water
> tank, at the site for the weekend. Although fire was still a concern, my
> stress level over it had now dropped several magnitudes.
> 
> I think we had the range completely setup by around 4:00, around which time
> Bob Yanecek arrived. The weather was perfect for flying rockets: sunny,
> clear, and negligible wind. Bob was more than happy to point out (many
> times) that it would have been great if the FAA waiver had been activated
> for Friday. I agreed with him, but couldn't do anything about it. It's
> definitely something to consider for future launches.
> 
> I took a ride with Tom Snell to the home of the neighbor to the south, with
> the hopes of getting official permission to walk on his land to recover
> rockets. Nobody was home, so we resolved to try again the next day.
> 
> As the afternoon progressed, people continued to arrive. By late evening the
> camp had grown to 20+ and there were group festivities at a couple of the
> campsites, although PSP and their fire pit were still absent. I was tired so
> I went to bed early to a beautiful, clear, starry sky.
> 
> As predicted by the weather forecast, I awoke to a much different scene.
> Low, grey clouds covered the sky and some nasty looking weather was
> approaching from the west. Despite the low cloud deck and intermittent
> spitting rain, people were flying rockets.
> 
> I took another trip with Tom Snell to the neighbor's house. The land owner
> wasn't home, but his son was and we had a pleasant conversation. I asked
> about permission to walk on their land and didn't get a "no", but also
> didn't get a definitive "yes" either. We also stopped by another neighbor's
> house to confirm that he was OK with us *walking* on his land for recovery.
> Both neighbors made it clear that they didn't want any vehicles driving
> off-road, which should be obvious to everybody.
> 
> Close to noon, the skies were only partly cloudy, so people were able to fly
> higher, but the wind was kicking up. People continued to fly, despite the
> wind until around 4:00 at which point it was blowing too hard and I closed
> the range for the remainder of the day.
> 
> There were more late evening festivities, this time with the advantage of
> the warmth of the PSP fire pit. The skies were now perfectly clear, but the
> winds were still blowing. I don't know how many times I said, "Hey, they
> wind is dieing down." followed by a huge gust to immediately prove me wrong.
> I was tired again, so I turned in early.
> 
> I awoke to another significant change in weather Sunday morning. The sky was
> clear blue and there was no wind. We had the waiver called in by 8:00AM and
> rockets started to fill the pads. Launches were steady throughout the
> morning.
> 
> Sometime after noon, I actually got the chance to fly my Performance
> Rocketry Gizmo, named Tico, on a J315R. It had a nice, spin-free boost, but
> the motor ejection delay was just a little longer than I had hoped. I guess
> I need to drill the delay grain a little more next time. The parachute
> deployed without mishap and I had a perfect compass bearing on it as it
> descended behind the ridge to the south of the launch site. I projected a
> waypoint in my Garmin Vista along the bearing and started walking. The
> course shown on the GPS didn't feel quite right, so I wasn't prudent about
> following the line. I walked parallel to it, knowing I would be able to see
> the rocket. Guess what. I was wrong. After walking out *way* further than
> needed, I gave Bob a call back in camp. He gave me a new line which I used
> to walk straight to the rocket. Wouldn't you know it, it was right on the
> course I had laid out on my GPS. That will teach me not to trust my
> instruments.
> 
> By around 2:00 things were winding down. Several people has already left and
> nobody else looked like they were preparing for flights. I closed the range,
> got lots of help breaking it down and packing it into the minivan, and
> headed for home.
> 
> Overall it was a great weekend, despite the questionable weather on
> Saturday. Thanks to Tom Snell and his son Mike for all of their work
> preparing the site for our use. Thanks also to everybody that came out to
> fly. I have decided that running a good launch is a lot like throwing a good
> party: it's all about having the right people there.
> 
> - Carl
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing? now
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1

From winningstad at comcast.net  Wed Sep 30 08:19:36 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:19:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cool
Message-ID: <027501ca41e1$6c2f0bb0$448d2310$@net>

So, you think the Balls video is cool.well it IS, but here's another!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChhYOO1s-nY
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChhYOO1s-nY&NR=1&feature=fvwp>
&NR=1&feature=fvwp

 

 

Dennis S Winningstad

503-781-3529

 


From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 30 20:18:21 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:18:21 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
Message-ID: <1418547B47904070A047043DDEC1CC9B@DellNotebook>

Ok, so I am sloooooowly working on my Wildman Extreme. 

I decide to try 'the best' and buy a quart kit of Aeropoxy from Giant Leap.

It sits in my garage for a couple of months. 

I finally open the cans to find the thickest epoxy components I've ever
seen.

The Resin and Hardener are the consistency of, oh say, real maple syrup that
has been in a really cold fridge.

Ok, that's different. I mix up about 20cc's. Normally I mix inside the
syringe using the long stir sticks like you use at Starbucks.

Not this stuff. Not in the syringe. Not with those sticks. I gotta dump the
goo on wax paper and get popsicle sticks; I should have used my bondo
paddles.

The stuff is like taffy. Flow? Ohhh, no. It barely oozes

 

Did I get a reeeeealy old batch, or is this 'normal'?

 

 

John Armitage

SLC Tacoma

253-205-7722  txt or voice

jjarmitage at earthlink.net notebook and Palm

 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 20:27:10 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:27:10 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
References: <1418547B47904070A047043DDEC1CC9B@DellNotebook>
Message-ID: <751A3A9D3E0641A2B09ECCD71620BE9D@LaptopKrausert>

A possible is the temperature in the NW has dropped 20 degrees in a week. 
This might cause thinkness issues, especially when temps drop. Might try 
bringing inside for 24 to 48 hours and then try.

Crud epoxy and great exopy follow temps. They get slooowwwer when it gets 
colder.

Just a thought. Hope I helped.
Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Armitage" <jjarmitage at earthlink.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...


> Ok, so I am sloooooowly working on my Wildman Extreme.
>
> I decide to try 'the best' and buy a quart kit of Aeropoxy from Giant 
> Leap.
>
> It sits in my garage for a couple of months.
>
> I finally open the cans to find the thickest epoxy components I've ever
> seen.
>
> The Resin and Hardener are the consistency of, oh say, real maple syrup 
> that
> has been in a really cold fridge.
>
> Ok, that's different. I mix up about 20cc's. Normally I mix inside the
> syringe using the long stir sticks like you use at Starbucks.
>
> Not this stuff. Not in the syringe. Not with those sticks. I gotta dump 
> the
> goo on wax paper and get popsicle sticks; I should have used my bondo
> paddles.
>
> The stuff is like taffy. Flow? Ohhh, no. It barely oozes
>
>
>
> Did I get a reeeeealy old batch, or is this 'normal'?
>
>
>
>
>
> John Armitage
>
> SLC Tacoma
>
> 253-205-7722  txt or voice
>
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net notebook and Palm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 30 20:33:14 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:33:14 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
In-Reply-To: <751A3A9D3E0641A2B09ECCD71620BE9D@LaptopKrausert>
References: <1418547B47904070A047043DDEC1CC9B@DellNotebook>
	<751A3A9D3E0641A2B09ECCD71620BE9D@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <A58DBA2B28E9477F91948F92881C1017@DellNotebook>

Yeah, I learned quickly the value of a heat lamp with the winter being my
building season.
I'll give it a try, it was about 60-65 in the garage...

j

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:27 PM
To: John Armitage; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...

A possible is the temperature in the NW has dropped 20 degrees in a week. 
This might cause thinkness issues, especially when temps drop. Might try 
bringing inside for 24 to 48 hours and then try.

Crud epoxy and great exopy follow temps. They get slooowwwer when it gets 
colder.

Just a thought. Hope I helped.
Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Armitage" <jjarmitage at earthlink.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...


> Ok, so I am sloooooowly working on my Wildman Extreme.
>
> I decide to try 'the best' and buy a quart kit of Aeropoxy from Giant 
> Leap.
>
> It sits in my garage for a couple of months.
>
> I finally open the cans to find the thickest epoxy components I've ever
> seen.
>
> The Resin and Hardener are the consistency of, oh say, real maple syrup 
> that
> has been in a really cold fridge.
>
> Ok, that's different. I mix up about 20cc's. Normally I mix inside the
> syringe using the long stir sticks like you use at Starbucks.
>
> Not this stuff. Not in the syringe. Not with those sticks. I gotta dump 
> the
> goo on wax paper and get popsicle sticks; I should have used my bondo
> paddles.
>
> The stuff is like taffy. Flow? Ohhh, no. It barely oozes
>
>
>
> Did I get a reeeeealy old batch, or is this 'normal'?
>
>
>
>
>
> John Armitage
>
> SLC Tacoma
>
> 253-205-7722  txt or voice
>
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net notebook and Palm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 20:46:49 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:46:49 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
References: <1418547B47904070A047043DDEC1CC9B@DellNotebook><751A3A9D3E0641A2B09ECCD71620BE9D@LaptopKrausert>
	<A58DBA2B28E9477F91948F92881C1017@DellNotebook>
Message-ID: <DED823FCDA794834B89A8CAB8BEFC226@LaptopKrausert>

60-65 degrees. You're in better warmth than I. My weather station is putting 
the garage right now at 54 F.

Big drop from last weeks 90's and upper 80's.

Unless the seal broke and air has damaged the mix. My guess is temp changes. 
But both thick sounds like temp changes.


Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Armitage" <jjarmitage at earthlink.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...


> Yeah, I learned quickly the value of a heat lamp with the winter being my
> building season.
> I'll give it a try, it was about 60-65 in the garage...
>
> j
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:27 PM
> To: John Armitage; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
>
> A possible is the temperature in the NW has dropped 20 degrees in a week.
> This might cause thinkness issues, especially when temps drop. Might try
> bringing inside for 24 to 48 hours and then try.
>
> Crud epoxy and great exopy follow temps. They get slooowwwer when it gets
> colder.
>
> Just a thought. Hope I helped.
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Armitage" <jjarmitage at earthlink.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:18 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
>
>
>> Ok, so I am sloooooowly working on my Wildman Extreme.
>>
>> I decide to try 'the best' and buy a quart kit of Aeropoxy from Giant
>> Leap.
>>
>> It sits in my garage for a couple of months.
>>
>> I finally open the cans to find the thickest epoxy components I've ever
>> seen.
>>
>> The Resin and Hardener are the consistency of, oh say, real maple syrup
>> that
>> has been in a really cold fridge.
>>
>> Ok, that's different. I mix up about 20cc's. Normally I mix inside the
>> syringe using the long stir sticks like you use at Starbucks.
>>
>> Not this stuff. Not in the syringe. Not with those sticks. I gotta dump
>> the
>> goo on wax paper and get popsicle sticks; I should have used my bondo
>> paddles.
>>
>> The stuff is like taffy. Flow? Ohhh, no. It barely oozes
>>
>>
>>
>> Did I get a reeeeealy old batch, or is this 'normal'?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Armitage
>>
>> SLC Tacoma
>>
>> 253-205-7722  txt or voice
>>
>> jjarmitage at earthlink.net notebook and Palm
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Sep 30 21:36:37 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:36:37 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
In-Reply-To: <1418547B47904070A047043DDEC1CC9B@DellNotebook>
References: <1418547B47904070A047043DDEC1CC9B@DellNotebook>
Message-ID: <A632C16FE60A48B8863E932333AFF805@Mobile2>

There is more than one thickness of aeropoxy, that sounds like structural
and not a laminating epoxy. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of John Armitage
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:18 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...

Ok, so I am sloooooowly working on my Wildman Extreme. 

I decide to try 'the best' and buy a quart kit of Aeropoxy from Giant Leap.

It sits in my garage for a couple of months. 

I finally open the cans to find the thickest epoxy components I've ever
seen.

The Resin and Hardener are the consistency of, oh say, real maple syrup that
has been in a really cold fridge.

Ok, that's different. I mix up about 20cc's. Normally I mix inside the
syringe using the long stir sticks like you use at Starbucks.

Not this stuff. Not in the syringe. Not with those sticks. I gotta dump the
goo on wax paper and get popsicle sticks; I should have used my bondo
paddles.

The stuff is like taffy. Flow? Ohhh, no. It barely oozes

 

Did I get a reeeeealy old batch, or is this 'normal'?

 

 

John Armitage

SLC Tacoma

253-205-7722  txt or voice

jjarmitage at earthlink.net notebook and Palm

 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Wed Sep 30 21:38:53 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:38:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cool
In-Reply-To: <027501ca41e1$6c2f0bb0$448d2310$@net>
References: <027501ca41e1$6c2f0bb0$448d2310$@net>
Message-ID: <4AC4325D.1040609@hawkfeather.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vq4mWyYl2Y

2nd half of the video: Sprint missile. First stage 6900Kn (AA motor?) in 
1.2 seconds, 100+ G acceleration, zero to Mach 10 in 5 seconds.

Even MikeF may be jealous ;)

Andrew.


Dennis S Winningstad wrote:
> So, you think the Balls video is cool.well it IS, but here's another!
> 
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChhYOO1s-nY&NR=1&feature=fvwp>
> 
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529

From appusher at q.com  Wed Sep 30 22:19:39 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 05:19:39 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
In-Reply-To: <1418547B47904070A047043DDEC1CC9B@DellNotebook>
References: <1418547B47904070A047043DDEC1CC9B@DellNotebook>
Message-ID: <BLU107-W2163C2737DC1C8EABA019CDCD30@phx.gbl>


John,

All the reasons you have been given by others are all worth looking at.

Temperature being the first.  Epoxies do have their operating temps.

Did you receive what you thought you ordered.? Scott mentioned alternate epoxies for different tasks.

 

Is there a "freshness" date?  Not that epoxies I know of have ever gone bad by duration.

 

One issue I read about with System Three Epoxies is that when not stored properly they solidify.  A slow warm bath to the manufacturers prescribed temp and duration bring the two concoctions back to a pourable state.

Cooling to room temperature supplies a refreshed workable glue.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:18:21 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
> 
> Ok, so I am sloooooowly working on my Wildman Extreme. 
> 
> I decide to try 'the best' and buy a quart kit of Aeropoxy from Giant Leap.
> 
> It sits in my garage for a couple of months. 
> 
> I finally open the cans to find the thickest epoxy components I've ever
> seen.
> 
> The Resin and Hardener are the consistency of, oh say, real maple syrup that
> has been in a really cold fridge.
> 
> Ok, that's different. I mix up about 20cc's. Normally I mix inside the
> syringe using the long stir sticks like you use at Starbucks.
> 
> Not this stuff. Not in the syringe. Not with those sticks. I gotta dump the
> goo on wax paper and get popsicle sticks; I should have used my bondo
> paddles.
> 
> The stuff is like taffy. Flow? Ohhh, no. It barely oozes
> 
> 
> 
> Did I get a reeeeealy old batch, or is this 'normal'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Armitage
> 
> SLC Tacoma
> 
> 253-205-7722 txt or voice
> 
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net notebook and Palm
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
 		 	   		  

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Wed Sep 30 22:28:20 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:28:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cool
In-Reply-To: <4AC4325D.1040609@hawkfeather.com>
References: <027501ca41e1$6c2f0bb0$448d2310$@net>
	<4AC4325D.1040609@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <f76a518c5d7e709579d1acb2b30a2465.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Whenever I see or hear the terms "antimissile missile" or "ABM" the Sprint
is what I think of.  The nose cone got hotter than the nozzle throat!

The thing had to be conical to allow a big enough nozzle exit area.  (Hint
hint Mike)  ;-)

Get up 'n gone!
+McG+


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vq4mWyYl2Y
>
> 2nd half of the video: Sprint missile. First stage 6900Kn (AA motor?) in
> 1.2 seconds, 100+ G acceleration, zero to Mach 10 in 5 seconds.
>
> Even MikeF may be jealous ;)
>
> Andrew.
>
>
> Dennis S Winningstad wrote:
>> So, you think the Balls video is cool.well it IS, but here's another!
>>
>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChhYOO1s-nY&NR=1&feature=fvwp>
>>
>> Dennis S Winningstad
>> 503-781-3529
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Wed Sep 30 22:39:30 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:39:30 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Aeropoxy...
In-Reply-To: <BLU107-W2163C2737DC1C8EABA019CDCD30@phx.gbl>
References: <1418547B47904070A047043DDEC1CC9B@DellNotebook>
	<BLU107-W2163C2737DC1C8EABA019CDCD30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AC44092.5030202@hawkfeather.com>

Absolutely true for the S3 General Purpose Resin. I've had to revive the 
epoxy several times when I forgot to bring it in from the garage for the 
winter. Note that the epoxy needs de-crystallization, but not the 
various speeds of hardeners. And the epoxy in the pump body never seems 
to re-liquify :( Total PITA to disassemble & clean. A warm water bath 
24-48 hrs or several+ days on top of the water heater do the trick.

Andrew.

Bill Munds wrote:

[snip]

> One issue I read about with System Three Epoxies is that when not stored properly they solidify.  A slow warm bath to the manufacturers prescribed temp and duration bring the two concoctions back to a pourable state.
> 
> Cooling to room temperature supplies a refreshed workable glue.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Bill

[snip]

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Wed Sep 30 22:50:39 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:50:39 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cool
In-Reply-To: <f76a518c5d7e709579d1acb2b30a2465.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <027501ca41e1$6c2f0bb0$448d2310$@net>
	<4AC4325D.1040609@hawkfeather.com>
	<f76a518c5d7e709579d1acb2b30a2465.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <4AC4432F.2020607@hawkfeather.com>

There are some fascinating details on the Sprint motor system here:

http://srmsc.org/pdf/004431p0.pdf

Filament-wound motor cases, double base fine AP with aluminum foil, 
dry-cast six star conical grain, boron-nitrate igniter pellets...

Andrew.

kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
> Whenever I see or hear the terms "antimissile missile" or "ABM" the Sprint
> is what I think of.  The nose cone got hotter than the nozzle throat!
> 
> The thing had to be conical to allow a big enough nozzle exit area.  (Hint
> hint Mike)  ;-)
> 
> Get up 'n gone!
> +McG+
> 
> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vq4mWyYl2Y
>>
>> 2nd half of the video: Sprint missile. First stage 6900Kn (AA motor?) in
>> 1.2 seconds, 100+ G acceleration, zero to Mach 10 in 5 seconds.
>>
>> Even MikeF may be jealous ;)
>>
>> Andrew.
>>
>>
>> Dennis S Winningstad wrote:
>>> So, you think the Balls video is cool.well it IS, but here's another!
>>>
>>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChhYOO1s-nY&NR=1&feature=fvwp>
>>>
>>> Dennis S Winningstad
>>> 503-781-3529
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