From winningstad at comcast.net Fri May 1 04:23:41 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 04:23:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda May 7th 2009 In-Reply-To: <60FB612AE40B4DFFA9E7BD851F40814F@LaptopKrausert> References: <60FB612AE40B4DFFA9E7BD851F40814F@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <4A41AD2CB07C48B99B75F72F60F1FBFA@downstair> 97005 Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:13 PM To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda May 7th 2009 The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on May 7th 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's [ Map ] 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton Agenda: 7:30 : Motions by members collected 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville May & June Announcement [Packard] 7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Show & Fly Event [Ryerse] 7:45 : Highlight of Members / Length of Membership [Krausert] 7:55 : Brother's Launch Announcement (Event, Rules, Showcase, Drawing) [Krausert] 8:05 : Club Business Update - Review of previous month minutes [Goncher] - Financial Update [Moscoe] - Porta Potty Readiness [Moscoe] - Annual 2007 CT-12 Filing [Moscoe] - Annual 2008 CT-12 2008 Address Change & Filing [Moscoe] - NAR Section 555 Renewal Status [Moscoe] - Brothers FAA Waiver Update [Krausert] 8:15 : Members Show & Tell [Everyone] - Bring your project and share it during the meeting. I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Should be a good mix of information. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday May 7th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. First public OROC launch at Brothers from the time of the meeting is T-minus 1 week. Cheers, Robert From winningstad at comcast.net Fri May 1 04:43:24 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 04:43:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com><25b5790998f49c95fec8c4332025d49f.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: Also, the 'ground pounders' are for letting us go...the typical agent doesn't have time to police something that doesn't need policing...eh? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 8:01 PM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection If they choose to appeal the ruling, the law moves into the final ruling until they find evidence to reverse. If they choose to stay the ruling, then all rules today continue until the next ruling. If they choose an extention, the laws may or may not change as part of the extention. Likely stay as they are. I for one believe the last ruling will be it. I do not expect any appeal, extention or stay. We are not their fight anymore and the new administration has made that clear. I'm not trying to get hopes up. But in my oppinion, it is over. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection Yup. I counted the days and marked it on my calendar. If ATF hasn't filed an appeal by 5 pm EDT on the 15th, or an extension for an appeal or whatever other legal trickery that might apply, we all get to do the Happy Rocket Days Are Here Again dance. If they do appeal, which I expect, then we get another chance to have another federal judge club them over the head with their own institutional stupidity yet again. (Happened twice so far, so the odds are pretty good for us.) Too bad the bigwigs at ATF HQ hadn't taken a cue from the FAA long ago. +McG+ > May 15th if I'm not mistaken. > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Paul Bogdanich > wrote: >> >>>"They agreed with me that any appeal would probably be filed at the last >>>moment." >> >> >> Just for my own edification when is the last moment? What glorious day >> in >> May would that be? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kent.newman at comcast.net Fri May 1 07:26:18 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 07:26:18 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturday Meeting Message-ID: <001c01c9ca68$cbc5fed0$6351fc70$@newman@comcast.net> Greetings! A reminder that the May meeting of Washington Aerospace will be held this Saturday, May 2, at 7:00 p.m. at Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup. For those of you contemplating an L2 attempt either at "Fire in the Sky" or another area launch early this summer, this is an excellent opportunity to get the written test behind you for either NAR or Tripoli certifications. Agenda items include: 1. Spring Tune-Up Launch Summary 2. L2 tests administered 3. FITS set-up schedule and review. 4. Functional assignments for club members at FITS. 5. High power contest detail review. 6. Rocket show and tell See you there!! Kent -------------- next part -------------- Greetings! ? A reminder that the May meeting of Washington Aerospace will be held this Saturday, May 2, at 7:00 p.m. at Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup. ? For those of you contemplating an L2 attempt either at ???Fire in the Sky??? or another area launch early this summer, this is an excellent opportunity to get the written test behind you for either NAR or Tripoli certifications. ? Agenda items include: ? Spring Tune-Up Launch Summary L2 tests administered FITS set-up schedule and review. Functional assignments for club members at FITS. High power contest detail review. Rocket show and tell ? See you there!! ? Kent From glennb.graham at verizon.net Fri May 1 14:37:17 2009 From: glennb.graham at verizon.net (glennb.graham at verizon.net) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 16:37:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Message-ID: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net> Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time this last couple of weeks to finish it off: Message ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few modifications and upgrades: Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the body tube). Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the body with one I made out of balsa. Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might get finished. I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H motor for first flight. Cheers! -Glenn Graham At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: ? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-72157607434554905/ From fred_bare at yahoo.com Fri May 1 14:53:29 2009 From: fred_bare at yahoo.com (Fred Bare) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Message-ID: <168398.89410.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Glenn, Looks reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal Nice. :) Greg Wilson --- On Fri, 5/1/09, glennb.graham at verizon.net wrote: From: glennb.graham at verizon.net Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 2:37 PM Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time this last couple of weeks to finish it off: Message ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few modifications and upgrades: Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the body tube). Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the body with one I made out of balsa. Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might get finished. I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H motor for first flight. Cheers! -Glenn Graham At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: ? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-72157607434554905/ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- Glenn, Looks reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal Nice. :) Greg Wilson --- On Fri, 5/1/09, glennb.graham at verizon.net wrote: From: glennb.graham at verizon.net Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 2:37 PM Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time this last couple of weeks to finish it off: Message ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few modifications and upgrades: Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the body tube). Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the body with one I made out of balsa. Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might get finished. I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H motor for first flight. Cheers! -Glenn Graham At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: ? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-72157607434554905/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-72157607434554905/ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From bjarchow at gmail.com Fri May 1 15:38:24 2009 From: bjarchow at gmail.com (Brian Jarchow) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 15:38:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com> <25b5790998f49c95fec8c4332025d49f.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: The average agent may not like to waste their time checking our magazines and books, but they don't get a say. The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. If they can get a bigger budget and bigger staff, they are even more important in government. It's the polar opposite of the private sector, where increasing efficiency so you can cut staff and budget are how you get ahead. I, for one, will be surprised if the ATF doesn't appeal. And I expect the appeal to come after 4 PM on the 15th. If they do, hopefully the court will not stay the opinion for the duration of the appeal. But that really depends on how friendly the appellate judge hearing the motion is to the ATF. Brian Jarchow On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Dennis Winningstad wrote: > Also, the 'ground pounders' are for letting us go...the typical agent > doesn't have time to police something that doesn't need policing...eh? > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. -------------- next part -------------- The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. If they can get a bigger budget and bigger staff, they are even more important in government. It's the polar opposite of the private sector, where increasing efficiency so you can cut staff and budget are how you get ahead. I, for one, will be surprised if the ATF doesn't appeal. And I expect the appeal to come after 4 PM on the 15th. If they do, hopefully the court will not stay the opinion for the duration of the appeal. But that really depends on how friendly the appellate judge hearing the motion is to the ATF. Brian Jarchow On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Dennis Winningstad < mailto:winningstad at comcast.net winningstad at comcast.net > wrote: Also, the 'ground pounders' are for letting us go...the typical agent doesn't have time to police something that doesn't need policing...eh? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. From winningstad at comcast.net Fri May 1 15:59:52 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 15:59:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com> <25b5790998f49c95fec8c4332025d49f.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <77C746F13089411B9C43908F010D397D@downstair> Dear Brian. I agree with paragraphs 2 & 3, but disagree with paragraph 1 in many cases, although there are certainly cases as such. Not all bosses are bone-heads. When that boss ignores reality and causes huge expenses for nothing, that boss will be noted by his/her boss. Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. _____ From: Brian Jarchow [mailto:bjarchow at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 3:38 PM To: Dennis Winningstad Cc: Robert Krausert; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection The average agent may not like to waste their time checking our magazines and books, but they don't get a say. The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. If they can get a bigger budget and bigger staff, they are even more important in government. It's the polar opposite of the private sector, where increasing efficiency so you can cut staff and budget are how you get ahead. I, for one, will be surprised if the ATF doesn't appeal. And I expect the appeal to come after 4 PM on the 15th. If they do, hopefully the court will not stay the opinion for the duration of the appeal. But that really depends on how friendly the appellate judge hearing the motion is to the ATF. Brian Jarchow On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Dennis Winningstad wrote: Also, the 'ground pounders' are for letting us go...the typical agent doesn't have time to police something that doesn't need policing...eh? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -------------- next part -------------- ??Dear Brian. ? I agree with paragraphs 2 & 3, but disagree with paragraph 1 in many cases, although there are certainly cases as such.? Not all bosses are bone-heads.? When that boss ignores reality and causes huge expenses for nothing, that boss will be noted by his/her boss. ? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 ? It is bad luck to be superstitious. From: Brian Jarchow [mailto:bjarchow at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 3:38 PM To: Dennis Winningstad Cc: Robert Krausert ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection ? The average agent may not like to waste their time checking our magazines and books, but they don't get a say. The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. If they can get a bigger budget and bigger staff, they are even more important in government. It's the polar opposite of the private sector, where increasing efficiency so you can cut staff and budget are how you get ahead. I, for one, will be surprised if the ATF doesn't appeal. And I expect the appeal to come after 4 PM on the 15th. If they do, hopefully the court will not stay the opinion for the duration of the appeal. But that really depends on how friendly the appellate judge hearing the motion is to the ATF. Brian Jarchow On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Dennis Winningstad < mailto:winningstad at comcast.net winningstad at comcast.net > wrote: Also, the 'ground pounders' are for letting us go...the typical agent doesn't have time to police something that doesn't need policing...eh? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. ? From winningstad at comcast.net Fri May 1 16:02:08 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:02:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: <168398.89410.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <168398.89410.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Glenn, like, WAY-cool... :D Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Fred Bare Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 2:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Glenn, Looks reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal Nice. :) Greg Wilson --- On Fri, 5/1/09, glennb.graham at verizon.net wrote: From: glennb.graham at verizon.net Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 2:37 PM Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time this last couple of weeks to finish it off: Message ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few modifications and upgrades: Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the body tube). Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the body with one I made out of balsa. Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might get finished. I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H motor for first flight. Cheers! -Glenn Graham At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: ? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743455490 5/ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri May 1 16:58:59 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:58:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Revised: OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda May 7th 2009 Message-ID: <4ABE87718D1F45E2B25EE0AE786BF993@LaptopKrausert> Version 2 The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on May 7th 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's [ Map ] 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : Motions by members collected 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville May & June Announcement [Packard] 7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Show & Fly Event [Ryerse] 7:45 : Highlight of Members / Length of Membership [Krausert] 7:55 : Brother's Launch Announcement (Event, Rules, Showcase, Drawing) [Krausert] 8:00 : Club Business Update - Review of previous month minutes [Goncher] - Financial Update [Moscoe] - Porta Potty Readiness [Moscoe] - Annual 2007 CT-12 Filing [Moscoe] - Annual 2008 CT-12 2008 Address Change & Filing [Moscoe] - NAR Section 555 Renewal Status [Moscoe] - Brothers FAA Waiver Update [Krausert] 8:15 : Hillsboro Hobbies Building Classes [Rachor] 8:20 : Hillsboro 4th of July Parade, OROC involvement [Rachor, all] - Announce what Hillsboro seeks [Rachor] - Group discussion on how we can participate. Example, launch some C's and D's from roof tops along the parade route... Ideas? Bring them to the meeting. [All, Rachor leads] I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Should be a good mix of information. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday May 7th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. First public OROC launch at Brothers from the time of the meeting is T-minus 1 week. Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- Version 2 The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on May 7th 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's [ Map ] 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005? Agenda: 7:30 : Motions by members collected 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @?Wilsonville May & June Announcement [Packard] 7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Show & Fly Event [Ryerse] 7:45 : Highlight of Members / Length of Membership [Krausert] 7:55 : Brother's Launch Announcement (Event, Rules, Showcase, Drawing) [Krausert] 8:00 : Club Business Update? ????????? - Review of previous month minutes [Goncher] ????????? - Financial Update [Moscoe] ????????? -?Porta Potty?Readiness [Moscoe] ????????? - Annual 2007 CT-12 Filing [Moscoe] ????????? - Annual 2008 CT-12 2008 Address Change & Filing? [Moscoe] ????????? - NAR Section 555 Renewal Status [Moscoe] ????????? - Brothers FAA Waiver Update [Krausert] 8:15 : Hillsboro Hobbies Building Classes [Rachor] 8:20 : Hillsboro 4th of July Parade, OROC involvement [Rachor, all] ?????????? - Announce what Hillsboro seeks [Rachor] ?????????? - Group discussion on how we can participate. Example, launch some C's and D's from ???????????? roof tops along the parade route... Ideas? Bring them to the meeting. [All, Rachor leads] I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Should be a good mix of information. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday May 7th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. First public OROC launch at Brothers from the time of the meeting is T-minus?1 week. Cheers, Robert From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri May 1 17:18:46 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 17:18:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com> <25b5790998f49c95fec8c4332025d49f.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <901311AF952A482BA0D9A502960CA410@LaptopKrausert> Brian, You are likely correct about the appeal. As an optimist, I'm truly hopeful that you're wrong. They've lost how many times? When will they simply stay down, stay there and listen to the ten count? ATF (Mr. T) put up a good long flight, but it is certain that Rocky (TRA/NAR) won this battle. ATF!! Stay down... Stay down... Give citizens a win against "The Man" for a change. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Jarchow To: Dennis Winningstad Cc: Robert Krausert ; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection The average agent may not like to waste their time checking our magazines and books, but they don't get a say. The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. If they can get a bigger budget and bigger staff, they are even more important in government. It's the polar opposite of the private sector, where increasing efficiency so you can cut staff and budget are how you get ahead. I, for one, will be surprised if the ATF doesn't appeal. And I expect the appeal to come after 4 PM on the 15th. If they do, hopefully the court will not stay the opinion for the duration of the appeal. But that really depends on how friendly the appellate judge hearing the motion is to the ATF. Brian Jarchow On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Dennis Winningstad wrote: Also, the 'ground pounders' are for letting us go...the typical agent doesn't have time to police something that doesn't need policing...eh? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -------------- next part -------------- Brian, You are likely correct about the appeal. As an optimist, I'm truly hopeful that?you're wrong. They've lost how many times? When will they simply stay down, stay there and listen to the ten count? ATF (Mr. T) put up a good long flight, but it is certain that Rocky (TRA/NAR) won this battle. ATF!! Stay down... Stay down... Give citizens a win against "The Man" for a change. ? Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:bjarchow at gmail.com Brian Jarchow To: mailto:winningstad at comcast.net Dennis Winningstad Cc: mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com Robert Krausert ; mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection The average agent may not like to waste their time checking our magazines and books, but they don't get a say. The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. If they can get a bigger budget and bigger staff, they are even more important in government. It's the polar opposite of the private sector, where increasing efficiency so you can cut staff and budget are how you get ahead. I, for one, will be surprised if the ATF doesn't appeal. And I expect the appeal to come after 4 PM on the 15th. If they do, hopefully the court will not stay the opinion for the duration of the appeal. But that really depends on how friendly the appellate judge hearing the motion is to the ATF. Brian Jarchow On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Dennis Winningstad < mailto:winningstad at comcast.net winningstad at comcast.net > wrote: Also, the 'ground pounders' are for letting us go...the typical agent doesn't have time to police something that doesn't need policing...eh? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. From jhadv at pacifier.com Fri May 1 22:58:21 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 22:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3432.67.189.35.224.1241243901.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. In some cases that's true but not all or even most cases. In my opinion. I know everyone will disagree with me and some even get upset and I should probably just shut up but I'm not that smart. All that said, it remains my opinion that the government has a legitimate interest in identifying the people capable of building and using N class motors and larger (in a single case) and I still think the best accommodation is dramatic relaxation of the rules for L motors and down, Ms start watching and for N and above full regulation. I still recommend that we negotiate that or some other reasonable accommodation. In short I caution against getting greedy. We're on top of it. Strong position and we could get compromise in my estimation. If not then fight it out in court but don't get greedy. Horses get fed, sheep get fed, goats get fed and cows get fed but pigs get slaughtered. From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sat May 2 09:29:21 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 12:29:21 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspections Message-ID: The government can't identify everybody capable of building M and above motors. Anybody can learn how from the internet. Besides, why the arbitrary line at M? A few years back a K was considered big. Now it's P and larger. In a few years, it may be R's. APCP is APCP no matter the size of the casing. And my opinion.....I'm glad that you are not our attorney. I've been in the HPR hobby since before the onset of this lawsuit, and contributed lots of money towards our defense. I have a bigger stake than the freedom to fly rockets, it is also my livelihood. And remember, WE WON. We're just waiting for it to be final. No reason to roll over after a WIN. Mike F. In a message dated 5/1/2009 10:58:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jhadv at pacifier.com writes: The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. In some cases that's true but not all or even most cases. In my opinion. I know everyone will disagree with me and some even get upset and I should probably just shut up but I'm not that smart. All that said, it remains my opinion that the government has a legitimate interest in identifying the people capable of building and using N class motors and larger (in a single case) and I still think the best accommodation is dramatic relaxation of the rules for L motors and down, Ms start watching and for N and above full regulation. I still recommend that we negotiate that or some other reasonable accommodation. In short I caution against getting greedy. We're on top of it. Strong position and we could get compromise in my estimation. If not then fight it out in court but don't get greedy. Horses get fed, sheep get fed, goats get fed and cows get fed but pigs get slaughtered. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) -------------- next part -------------- The government can't identify everybody capable of building M and above motors.? Anybody can learn how from the internet.? Besides, why the arbitrary line at M?? A few years back a K was considered big.? Now it's P and larger.? In a few years, it may be R's. ? APCP is APCP no matter the size of the casing.? ? And my opinion.....I'm glad that you are not our attorney.? I've been in the HPR hobby since before the onset of this lawsuit, and contributed lots of money towards our defense.? I have a bigger stake than the freedom to fly rockets, it is also my livelihood.? ? And remember, WE WON.? We're just waiting for it to be final.? No reason to roll over after a WIN. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/1/2009 10:58:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jhadv at pacifier.com writes: The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. In some cases that's true but not all or even most cases.? In my opinion. I know everyone will disagree with me and some even get upset and I should probably just shut up but I'm not that smart.? All that said, it remains my opinion that the government has a legitimate interest in identifying the people capable of building and using N class motors and larger (in a single case) and I still think the best accommodation is dramatic relaxation of the rules for L motors and down, Ms start watching and for N and above full regulation.? I still recommend that we negotiate that or some other reasonable accommodation.? In short I caution against getting greedy.? We're on top of it.? Strong position and we could get compromise in my estimation.? If not then fight it out in court but don't get greedy. Horses get fed, sheep get fed, goats get fed and cows get fed but pigs get slaughtered. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003 Get the Radio Toolbar ! From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com Sat May 2 14:05:37 2009 From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 14:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspections Message-ID: <285058.63416.qm@web50206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Why are you talking about negotiating with the ATF and compromise?? Like Mike said, WE WON!? I don't even know why we're waiting so long to claim this victory.? It seems like we're asking the ATF if it is OK that we won. ? Larry Colvin Bend, OR --- On Fri, 5/1/09, jhadv at pacifier.com wrote: From: jhadv at pacifier.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspections To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 10:58 PM The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. In some cases that's true but not all or even most cases.? In my opinion. I know everyone will disagree with me and some even get upset and I should probably just shut up but I'm not that smart.? All that said, it remains my opinion that the government has a legitimate interest in identifying the people capable of building and using N class motors and larger (in a single case) and I still think the best accommodation is dramatic relaxation of the rules for L motors and down, Ms start watching and for N and above full regulation.? I still recommend that we negotiate that or some other reasonable accommodation.? In short I caution against getting greedy.? We're on top of it.? Strong position and we could get compromise in my estimation.? If not then fight it out in court but don't get greedy. Horses get fed, sheep get fed, goats get fed and cows get fed but pigs get slaughtered. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- Why are you talking about negotiating with the ATF and compromise?? Like Mike said, WE WON!? I don't even know why we're waiting so long to claim this victory.? It seems like we're asking the ATF if it is OK that we won. ? Larry Colvin Bend, OR --- On Fri, 5/1/09, jhadv at pacifier.com wrote: From: jhadv at pacifier.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspections To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 10:58 PM The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. In some cases that's true but not all or even most cases.? In my opinion. I know everyone will disagree with me and some even get upset and I should probably just shut up but I'm not that smart.? All that said, it remains my opinion that the government has a legitimate interest in identifying the people capable of building and using N class motors and larger (in a single case) and I still think the best accommodation is dramatic relaxation of the rules for L motors and down, Ms start watching and for N and above full regulation.? I still recommend that we negotiate that or some other reasonable accommodation.? In short I caution against getting greedy.? We're on top of it.? Strong position and we could get compromise in my estimation.? If not then fight it out in court but don't get greedy. Horses get fed, sheep get fed, goats get fed and cows get fed but pigs get slaughtered. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com Sat May 2 14:05:51 2009 From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 14:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspections Message-ID: <809847.65814.qm@web50206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Why are you talking about negotiating with the ATF and compromise?? Like Mike said, WE WON!? I don't even know why we're waiting so long to claim this victory.? It seems like we're asking the ATF if it is OK that we won. ? Larry Colvin Bend, OR --- On Fri, 5/1/09, jhadv at pacifier.com wrote: From: jhadv at pacifier.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspections To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 10:58 PM The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. In some cases that's true but not all or even most cases.? In my opinion. I know everyone will disagree with me and some even get upset and I should probably just shut up but I'm not that smart.? All that said, it remains my opinion that the government has a legitimate interest in identifying the people capable of building and using N class motors and larger (in a single case) and I still think the best accommodation is dramatic relaxation of the rules for L motors and down, Ms start watching and for N and above full regulation.? I still recommend that we negotiate that or some other reasonable accommodation.? In short I caution against getting greedy.? We're on top of it.? Strong position and we could get compromise in my estimation.? If not then fight it out in court but don't get greedy. Horses get fed, sheep get fed, goats get fed and cows get fed but pigs get slaughtered. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- Why are you talking about negotiating with the ATF and compromise?? Like Mike said, WE WON!? I don't even know why we're waiting so long to claim this victory.? It seems like we're asking the ATF if it is OK that we won. ? Larry Colvin Bend, OR --- On Fri, 5/1/09, jhadv at pacifier.com wrote: From: jhadv at pacifier.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspections To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 10:58 PM The people running the ATF make themselves more important by increasing what they regulate so they have greater authority. In some cases that's true but not all or even most cases.? In my opinion. I know everyone will disagree with me and some even get upset and I should probably just shut up but I'm not that smart.? All that said, it remains my opinion that the government has a legitimate interest in identifying the people capable of building and using N class motors and larger (in a single case) and I still think the best accommodation is dramatic relaxation of the rules for L motors and down, Ms start watching and for N and above full regulation.? I still recommend that we negotiate that or some other reasonable accommodation.? In short I caution against getting greedy.? We're on top of it.? Strong position and we could get compromise in my estimation.? If not then fight it out in court but don't get greedy. Horses get fed, sheep get fed, goats get fed and cows get fed but pigs get slaughtered. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From rocketsrfun at msn.com Sat May 2 17:00:23 2009 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris ) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:00:23 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm Message-ID: Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. Don Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat May 2 17:10:40 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 17:10:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] References: Message-ID: Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ MPH gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still have power at this moment. No T-storm here. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Harris " To: Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. > > Don > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rocketsrfun at msn.com Sat May 2 17:39:42 2009 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris ) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:39:42 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] Message-ID: Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel cloud come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I think the tree that has now turned his car into a compact might also have brought him to that conclusion... Don Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 To: ; Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ MPH gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still have power at this moment. No T-storm here. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Harris " To: Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. > > Don > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From clappfamily at comcast.net Sat May 2 18:16:16 2009 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (ClappFamily) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:16:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] References: Message-ID: <8FAB052CBA9B497F9D2087971E30C731@D8M6PR71> A lot of signal lights are flashing red in Vancouver. So it looks like we took a power hit as well. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Harris " To: Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel cloud > come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I think the tree > that has now turned his car into a compact might also have brought him to > that conclusion... > > Don > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 > To: ; > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ MPH > gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still have power > at > this moment. No T-storm here. > > Cheers, > Robert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Harris " > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm > > > > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. > > > > Don > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat May 2 16:41:07 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 16:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com> <25b5790998f49c95fec8c4332025d49f.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <8a3b74974ef4c8efc8dfa1f87d096e4a.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> FWIW, I was wrong about the outcome of the suit--I thought we'd lose. I've always used a kind of "classic Hollywood monster" model for ATF's top level management, meaning they'll give up when their very last molecule falls into a black hole. Maybe. I just see this loss as too big a camel's nose under the tent for ATF to admit defeat. I sure hope I'm wrong, and the number of people who disagree with me on this is definitely heartwarming. But even if May 16th is party time, I'll still be keeping one eye open in the future when I'm curled up sleeping peacefully on my pile of AP motors and reloads. ;-) +McG+ > If they choose to appeal the ruling, the law moves into the final ruling > until they find evidence to reverse. > > If they choose to stay the ruling, then all rules today continue until the > next ruling. > > If they choose an extention, the laws may or may not change as part of the > extention. Likely stay as they are. > > I for one believe the last ruling will be it. I do not expect any appeal, > extention or stay. We are not their fight anymore and the new > administration > has made that clear. > > I'm not trying to get hopes up. But in my oppinion, it is over. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection > > > Yup. I counted the days and marked it on my calendar. If ATF hasn't > filed an appeal by 5 pm EDT on the 15th, or an extension for an appeal or > whatever other legal trickery that might apply, we all get to do the Happy > Rocket Days Are Here Again dance. > > If they do appeal, which I expect, then we get another chance to have > another federal judge club them over the head with their own institutional > stupidity yet again. (Happened twice so far, so the odds are pretty good > for us.) Too bad the bigwigs at ATF HQ hadn't taken a cue from the FAA > long ago. > > +McG+ > > >> May 15th if I'm not mistaken. >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Paul Bogdanich >> wrote: >>> >>>>"They agreed with me that any appeal would probably be filed at the >>>> last >>>>moment." >>> >>> >>> Just for my own edification when is the last moment? What glorious day >>> in >>> May would that be? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat May 2 16:53:00 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 16:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net> References: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange a little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to launch! You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight stock! :) Kits aren't really kits. They're suggestions. +McG+ > Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast > Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket had > always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss a chance > to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its life partially > assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time this last couple of > weeks to finish it off: > Message > ?? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > ?? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few modifications > and upgrades: > Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was > slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough to > mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor tube > (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the body > tube). > Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. > Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the body > with one I made out of balsa. > Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed platic > (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface warping in warm > sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with the vacu-formed > sheeting and they turned out well). > I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. > I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that once > a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might get > finished. > I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H motor > for first flight. > Cheers! > -Glenn Graham > At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: > ?? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL > At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: > ?? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-72157607434554905/ > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From appusher at q.com Sun May 3 07:27:46 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:27:46 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] In-Reply-To: <8FAB052CBA9B497F9D2087971E30C731@D8M6PR71> References: <8FAB052CBA9B497F9D2087971E30C731@D8M6PR71> Message-ID: Power flickered here in the Kitsap Pennisula. Dave lost power for a bit and the power at the Rocket Ranch flickered. Lots of rain. Much debris scattered about. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: clappfamily at comcast.net > To: rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:16:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > A lot of signal lights are flashing red in Vancouver. So it looks like we > took a power hit as well. > > Rick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Harris " > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:39 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel cloud > > come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I think the tree > > that has now turned his car into a compact might also have brought him to > > that conclusion... > > > > Don > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Krausert > > > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 > > To: ; > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > > > Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ MPH > > gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still have power > > at > > this moment. No T-storm here. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Don Harris " > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm > > > > > > > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. > > > > > > Don > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockets mailing list > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- Power flickered here in the Kitsap Pennisula.? Dave lost power for a bit and the power at the Rocket Ranch flickered. Lots of rain.? Much debris scattered about. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: clappfamily at comcast.net > To: rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:16:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > A lot of signal lights are flashing red in Vancouver. So it looks like we > took a power hit as well. > > Rick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Harris " > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:39 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel cloud > > come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I think the tree > > that has now turned his car into a compact might also have brought him to > > that conclusion... > > > > Don > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Krausert > > > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 > > To: ; > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > > > Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ MPH > > gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still have power > > at > > this moment. No T-storm here. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Don Harris " > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm > > > > > > > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. > > > > > > Don > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockets mailing list > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Sun May 3 10:09:04 2009 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (Bryan Whitemarsh) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 10:09:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: References: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <9CC3F11F1BC640E48CF8CEE8AA3093C0@BryanPC> First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely done. I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In preparing for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was met with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant electronics last weekend at Mansfield. The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. Just my two cents. Bryan Whitemarsh -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange a little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to launch! You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight stock! :) Kits aren't really kits. They're suggestions. +McG+ > Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast > Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket > had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss > a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its > life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time > this last couple of weeks to finish it off: > Message > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few > modifications and upgrades: > Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was > slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough > to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor > tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the > body tube). > Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. > Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the > body with one I made out of balsa. > Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed > platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface > warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with > the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). > I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. > I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that > once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might > get finished. > I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H > motor for first flight. > Cheers! > -Glenn Graham > At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: > ?? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL > At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 > 4554905/ _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at blastzone.com Sun May 3 12:27:02 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 12:27:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] In-Reply-To: References: <8FAB052CBA9B497F9D2087971E30C731@D8M6PR71> Message-ID: <00f901c9cc25$23131840$693948c0$@com> Yeah, we got hammered with the heavest rain I've seen here in a while in Bonney Lake. Sounded like hail on the roof, but was just big 'ol raindrops. Did not disturb the fiberglassing of the 11.4 inch airframe being worked on in the garage... > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:28 AM > To: ClappFamily; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > Power flickered here in the Kitsap Pennisula. Dave lost power for a bit and > the power at the Rocket Ranch flickered. > > Lots of rain. Much debris scattered about. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > > > From: clappfamily at comcast.net > > To: rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:16:16 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > A lot of signal lights are flashing red in Vancouver. So it looks like > > we took a power hit as well. > > > > Rick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Don Harris " > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:39 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > > > > Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel > > > cloud come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I > > > think the tree that has now turned his car into a compact might also > > > have brought him to that conclusion... > > > > > > Don > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Robert Krausert > > > > > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 > > > To: ; > > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > > > > > > Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ > > > MPH gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still > > > have power at this moment. No T-storm here. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Don Harris " > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM > > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm > > > > > > > > > > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. > > > > > > > > Don > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockets mailing list > > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockets mailing list > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bigrockets at verizon.net Sun May 3 13:08:38 2009 From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:08:38 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] In-Reply-To: <00f901c9cc25$23131840$693948c0$@com> References: <8FAB052CBA9B497F9D2087971E30C731@D8M6PR71> <00f901c9cc25$23131840$693948c0$@com> Message-ID: <002401c9cc2a$f2ffc170$d8ff4450$@net> We were watching TV in the break room at work when the public alarm deal went off on the TV and this big red stripe came acrossed the screen giving us the old Severe Thunderstorm warning. I'm surprised the news people didn't start talking tornado warnings and the schools letting the kids out early because of a thunderstorm warning. I wonder what people from Oklahoma and Texas think of stuff like this? Next thing you know we'll be getting cloud warnings and rain warning. A severe temperature drop warning, "a temperature drop warning is in effect for the greater Portland area. Temperatures are expected to plummet 2 degrees.!" How about an unpleasant day outside warning? Gloomy warnings, gray warnings, too hot too cold, boring the list could go on. Dave Proffitt -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:27 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] Yeah, we got hammered with the heavest rain I've seen here in a while in Bonney Lake. Sounded like hail on the roof, but was just big 'ol raindrops. Did not disturb the fiberglassing of the 11.4 inch airframe being worked on in the garage... > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:28 AM > To: ClappFamily; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > Power flickered here in the Kitsap Pennisula. Dave lost power for a bit and > the power at the Rocket Ranch flickered. > > Lots of rain. Much debris scattered about. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > > > From: clappfamily at comcast.net > > To: rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:16:16 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > A lot of signal lights are flashing red in Vancouver. So it looks like > > we took a power hit as well. > > > > Rick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Don Harris " > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:39 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > > > > Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel > > > cloud come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I > > > think the tree that has now turned his car into a compact might also > > > have brought him to that conclusion... > > > > > > Don > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Robert Krausert > > > > > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 > > > To: ; > > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > > > > > > > > Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ > > > MPH gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still > > > have power at this moment. No T-storm here. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Don Harris " > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM > > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm > > > > > > > > > > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. > > > > > > > > Don > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockets mailing list > > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockets mailing list > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From tnetcenter at gmail.com Sun May 3 13:21:52 2009 From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:21:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC References: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net> <9CC3F11F1BC640E48CF8CEE8AA3093C0@BryanPC> Message-ID: <11D351454E504B0FBF765943B7361543@TNTCENTER> Newbie or not, no one should EVER be afraid to ask a question on this list concerning rocketry. This is how people learn all the "ins and outs". Hopefully, without repeating others mistakes. As for the Level 1 cert with electronics - congratulations on passing your cert! Some people are prepared to step-up to the complexities of flying electronics for deployment for L1 cert flights. Some are not! Sometimes circumstances conspire to guarantee that in spite of all the knowledge/experience a person might have, multiple cert flights are necessary. The discussion ensued regarding your cert flight plans because typically most rocketeers don't get into electronics until the L2 or even L3 cert attempts. This is precisely because of the daunting nature of getting into HPR. I know that my own journey into HPR has required me to learn (or brush up on) electronics, composite construction, chemistry, physics, engineering, etc. Very few people getting into HPR have all that knowledge and in fact even a lot of those in HPR now don't have all of that info to work with. That's the niche(among others) that this list is used to fill. I don't have all the knowledge I need, but I know that I can get the answers I need here! Enjoy, it only gets better! Jeff Moore BORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Whitemarsh" First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely done. I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In preparing for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was met with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant electronics last weekend at Mansfield. The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. Just my two cents. Bryan Whitemarsh From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun May 3 13:31:31 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:31:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] References: <8FAB052CBA9B497F9D2087971E30C731@D8M6PR71><00f901c9cc25$23131840$693948c0$@com> <002401c9cc2a$f2ffc170$d8ff4450$@net> Message-ID: Ruin the outdoor wedding Warning. Easy-up lift off Warning. Your neightbor tree is looking at your garage Warning. Just got you hair done Warning. So hot that it'll fry the pipples off a teenagers face Warning. HDAIFHO Warning. Watermelon size hail Warning. In the NW we get so little extreme weather. So any time we do, the news stations go crazy. "Next on FOXnews, Spring Storm Watch 2009." And then there's always the reporter that drew the short straw that gets stuck doing the report from the Columbia River gorge (Troutdale) in 90 MPH winds and sideways rain/snow. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Proffitt" To: "OROC List" Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > We were watching TV in the break room at work when the public alarm deal > went off on the TV and this big red stripe came acrossed the screen giving > us the old Severe Thunderstorm warning. I'm surprised the news people > didn't start talking tornado warnings and the schools letting the kids out > early because of a thunderstorm warning. I wonder what people from > Oklahoma > and Texas think of stuff like this? Next thing you know we'll be getting > cloud warnings and rain warning. A severe temperature drop warning, "a > temperature drop warning is in effect for the greater Portland area. > Temperatures are expected to plummet 2 degrees.!" How about an unpleasant > day outside warning? Gloomy warnings, gray warnings, too hot too cold, > boring the list could go on. > > Dave Proffitt > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Greg Deputy > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:27 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > Yeah, we got hammered with the heavest rain I've seen here in a while in > Bonney Lake. Sounded like hail on the roof, but was just big 'ol > raindrops. > > Did not disturb the fiberglassing of the 11.4 inch airframe being worked > on > in the garage... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On >> Behalf Of Bill Munds >> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:28 AM >> To: ClappFamily; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> >> >> Power flickered here in the Kitsap Pennisula. Dave lost power for a bit > and >> the power at the Rocket Ranch flickered. >> >> Lots of rain. Much debris scattered about. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >> >> >> > From: clappfamily at comcast.net >> > To: rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:16:16 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> > >> > A lot of signal lights are flashing red in Vancouver. So it looks like >> > we took a power hit as well. >> > >> > Rick >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Don Harris " >> > To: >> > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:39 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> > >> > >> > > Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel >> > > cloud come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I >> > > think the tree that has now turned his car into a compact might also >> > > have brought him to that conclusion... >> > > >> > > Don >> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Robert Krausert >> > > >> > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 >> > > To: ; >> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> > > >> > > >> > > Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ >> > > MPH gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still >> > > have power at this moment. No T-storm here. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Robert >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Don Harris " >> > > To: >> > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM >> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm >> > > >> > > >> > > > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. >> > > > >> > > > Don >> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Rockets mailing list >> > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Rockets mailing list >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmrandall at gmail.com Sun May 3 14:26:26 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:26:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: <9CC3F11F1BC640E48CF8CEE8AA3093C0@BryanPC> References: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net> <9CC3F11F1BC640E48CF8CEE8AA3093C0@BryanPC> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905031426v180fc281paa248af1a208ab6d@mail.gmail.com> Congrats on your L1 Bryan! Nice job. On an I as well! I saw dual deploy in Orting back in the day for the first time - that's when I knew I had to figure out this electronics bit. Ended up doing my L1 on a BSD Sprint - just because for me - it was about flying a reloadable H motor. L2 was with an Excel Plus on dual deploy. Speaking of which, maybe it's time to go fix up that Sprint so I can fly it again at FITS.... :) Dave On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Bryan Whitemarsh wrote: > > First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. ?Nicely done. > > I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. ?I am a "newbie" > having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. ?In preparing > for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. ?That was met > with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another > level of difficulty to a certification flight. ?Some went so far as to > insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety > risk to others at the launch. ?I successfully certified Level 1 with a > modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant > electronics last weekend at Mansfield. > > The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying > straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat > tongue-in-cheek. ?However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, > and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't > take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. > > I don't want to cause any hard feelings. ?I understand this is a forum to > offer up opinions regarding rocketry. ?But as a newbie, I worry a little > that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would > be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. > > Just my two cents. > > Bryan Whitemarsh > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC > > Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better > materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange a > little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to launch! > > You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight > stock! ?:) > > Kits aren't really kits. ?They're suggestions. > +McG+ > > >> Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast >> Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket >> had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss >> a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its >> life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time >> this last couple of weeks to finish it off: >> Message >> ? >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ >> ? >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ >> Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few >> modifications and upgrades: >> Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was >> slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough >> to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor >> tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the >> body tube). >> Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. >> Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the >> body with one I made out of balsa. >> Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed >> platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface >> warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with >> the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). >> I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. >> I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that >> once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might >> get finished. >> I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H >> motor for first flight. >> Cheers! >> -Glenn Graham >> At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: >> ?? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL >> At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: >> ? >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 >> 4554905/ _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From rocketsrfun at msn.com Sun May 3 14:35:51 2009 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 14:35:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] In-Reply-To: <8FAB052CBA9B497F9D2087971E30C731@D8M6PR71><00f901c9cc25$23131840$693948c0$@com><002401c9cc2a$f2ffc170$d8ff4450$@net> References: <8FAB052CBA9B497F9D2087971E30C731@D8M6PR71><00f901c9cc25$23131840$693948c0$@com><002401c9cc2a$f2ffc170$d8ff4450$@net> Message-ID: The news channels here in Oregon don't work like that, they just send out the new guy/gal. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Krausert To: Dave Proffitt ; OROC List Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] And then there's always the reporter that drew the short straw that gets stuck doing the report from the Columbia River gorge (Troutdale) in 90 MPH winds and sideways rain/snow. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Proffitt" > To: "OROC List" > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > We were watching TV in the break room at work when the public alarm deal > went off on the TV and this big red stripe came acrossed the screen giving > us the old Severe Thunderstorm warning. I'm surprised the news people > didn't start talking tornado warnings and the schools letting the kids out > early because of a thunderstorm warning. I wonder what people from > Oklahoma > and Texas think of stuff like this? Next thing you know we'll be getting > cloud warnings and rain warning. A severe temperature drop warning, "a > temperature drop warning is in effect for the greater Portland area. > Temperatures are expected to plummet 2 degrees.!" How about an unpleasant > day outside warning? Gloomy warnings, gray warnings, too hot too cold, > boring the list could go on. > > Dave Proffitt > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Greg Deputy > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:27 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > Yeah, we got hammered with the heavest rain I've seen here in a while in > Bonney Lake. Sounded like hail on the roof, but was just big 'ol > raindrops. > > Did not disturb the fiberglassing of the 11.4 inch airframe being worked > on > in the garage... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On >> Behalf Of Bill Munds >> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:28 AM >> To: ClappFamily; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> >> >> Power flickered here in the Kitsap Pennisula. Dave lost power for a bit > and >> the power at the Rocket Ranch flickered. >> >> Lots of rain. Much debris scattered about. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >> >> >> > From: clappfamily at comcast.net >> > To: rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:16:16 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> > >> > A lot of signal lights are flashing red in Vancouver. So it looks like >> > we took a power hit as well. >> > >> > Rick >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Don Harris " > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:39 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> > >> > >> > > Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel >> > > cloud come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I >> > > think the tree that has now turned his car into a compact might also >> > > have brought him to that conclusion... >> > > >> > > Don >> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Robert Krausert > >> > > >> > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 >> > > To: >; > >> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> > > >> > > >> > > Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ >> > > MPH gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still >> > > have power at this moment. No T-storm here. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Robert >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Don Harris " > >> > > To: > >> > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM >> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm >> > > >> > > >> > > > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. >> > > > >> > > > Don >> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Rockets mailing list >> > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Rockets mailing list >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- The news channels here in Oregon don't work like that, they just send out?the new guy/gal. ? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com Robert Krausert To: mailto:bigrockets at verizon.net Dave Proffitt ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com OROC List Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] ? And then there's always the reporter that drew the short straw that gets stuck doing the report from the Columbia River gorge (Troutdale) in 90 MPH winds and sideways rain/snow. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Proffitt" < mailto:bigrockets at verizon.net bigrockets at verizon.net > To: "OROC List" < mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > We were watching TV in the break room at work when the public alarm deal > went off on the TV and this big red stripe came acrossed the screen giving > us the old Severe Thunderstorm warning.? I'm surprised the news people > didn't start talking tornado warnings and the schools letting the kids out > early because of a thunderstorm warning. I wonder what people from > Oklahoma > and Texas think of stuff like this?? Next thing you know we'll be getting > cloud warnings and rain warning. A severe temperature drop warning, "a > temperature drop warning is in effect for the greater Portland area. > Temperatures are expected to plummet 2 degrees.!" How about an unpleasant > day outside warning? Gloomy warnings, gray warnings, too hot too cold, > boring the list could go on. > > Dave Proffitt > > -----Original Message----- > From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Greg Deputy > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:27 PM > To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > Yeah, we got hammered with the heavest rain I've seen here in a while in > Bonney Lake.? Sounded like hail on the roof, but was just big 'ol > raindrops. > > Did not disturb the fiberglassing of the 11.4 inch airframe being worked > on > in the garage... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On >> Behalf Of Bill Munds >> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:28 AM >> To: ClappFamily; mailto:rocketsrfun at msn.com rocketsrfun at msn.com ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> >> >> Power flickered here in the Kitsap Pennisula.? Dave lost power for a bit > and >> the power at the Rocket Ranch flickered. >> >> Lots of rain.? Much debris scattered about. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>? EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >> >> >> > From: mailto:clappfamily at comcast.net clappfamily at comcast.net >> > To: mailto:rocketsrfun at msn.com rocketsrfun at msn.com ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:16:16 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> > >> > A lot of signal lights are flashing red in Vancouver. So it looks like >> > we took a power hit as well. >> > >> > Rick >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Don Harris " < mailto:rocketsrfun at msn.com rocketsrfun at msn.com > >> > To: < mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:39 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> > >> > >> > > Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel >> > > cloud come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I >> > > think the tree that has now turned his car into a compact might also >> > > have brought him to that conclusion... >> > > >> > > Don >> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Robert Krausert < mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com lawndart.robert at gmail.com > >> > > >> > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 >> > > To: < mailto:rocketsrfun at msn.com rocketsrfun at msn.com >; < mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> > > >> > > >> > > Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ >> > > MPH gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still >> > > have power at this moment. No T-storm here. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Robert >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Don Harris " < mailto:rocketsrfun at msn.com rocketsrfun at msn.com > >> > > To: < mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM >> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm >> > > >> > > >> > > > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. >> > > > >> > > > Don >> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Rockets mailing list >> > > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > < http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Rockets mailing list >> > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun May 3 14:53:19 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:53:19 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Message-ID: Stock kits are fine as long as you fly them on the recommended motors. If you plan on flying bigger motors or high thrust motors than recommended by the kit manufacturer, then there is nothing wrong with beefing it up. IMO, stock kits do not show "newbie" status. I build every Binder Design kit bone stock and try to shred it as best I can before releasing it to ensure that it can withstand beyond the recommended motors without modification. Every day I take phone calls from customers who insist that they need to fiberglass the airframe and fins for their L1 and L2 rocket based on the advice of "experienced" flyers. Not true. We've all seen instances where a person going for their L1 cert has built a rocket that could withstand an M (me included). As newbies we tend to over-estimate the forces involved at the expense of overbuilding and unnecessary weight. If you have a well engineered kit, stock is good! Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/3/2009 10:09:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net writes: First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely done. I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In preparing for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was met with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant electronics last weekend at Mansfield. The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. Just my two cents. Bryan Whitemarsh -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange a little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to launch! You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight stock! :) Kits aren't really kits. They're suggestions. +McG+ > Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast > Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket > had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss > a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its > life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time > this last couple of weeks to finish it off: > Message > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few > modifications and upgrades: > Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was > slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough > to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor > tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the > body tube). > Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. > Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the > body with one I made out of balsa. > Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed > platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface > warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with > the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). > I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. > I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that > once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might > get finished. > I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H > motor for first flight. > Cheers! > -Glenn Graham > At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: > ? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL > At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 > 4554905/ _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) -------------- next part -------------- Stock kits are fine as long as you fly them on the recommended motors.? If you plan on flying bigger motors or high thrust motors than recommended by the kit manufacturer, then there is nothing wrong with beefing it up.? ? IMO, stock kits do not show "newbie" status.? I build every Binder Design kit bone stock and try to shred it as best I can before releasing it to ensure that it can withstand beyond the recommended motors without modification.? Every day I take phone calls from customers who insist that they need to fiberglass the airframe and fins for their L1 and L2 rocket based on the advice of "experienced" flyers.? Not true. ? We've all seen instances where a person going for their L1 cert has built a rocket that could withstand an M (me included).? As newbies we tend to over-estimate the forces involved at the expense of overbuilding and? unnecessary weight.? If you have a well engineered kit, stock is good! ? Mike Fisher Binder Design ? In a message dated 5/3/2009 10:09:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net writes: First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product.? Nicely done. I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby.? I am a "newbie" having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year.? In preparing for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics.? That was met with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another level of difficulty to a certification flight.? Some went so far as to insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety risk to others at the launch.? I successfully certified Level 1 with a modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant electronics last weekend at Mansfield. The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek.? However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that.? I don't want to cause any hard feelings.? I understand this is a forum to offer up opinions regarding rocketry.? But as a newbie, I worry a little that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. Just my two cents. Bryan Whitemarsh -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange a little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to launch! You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight stock!? :) Kits aren't really kits.? They're suggestions. +McG+ > Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast > Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket > had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss > a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its > life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time > this last couple of weeks to finish it off: > Message > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few > modifications and upgrades: > Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was > slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough > to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor > tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the > body tube). > Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. > Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the > body with one I made out of balsa. > Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed > platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface > warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with > the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). > I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. > I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that > once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might > get finished. > I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H > motor for first flight. > Cheers! > -Glenn Graham > At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: > ?? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL > At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 > 4554905/ _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003 Get the Radio Toolbar ! From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Sun May 3 15:02:15 2009 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (bwhitemarsh at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 22:02:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <71827368.3576551241388135385.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Funny you should mention that, Mike.?? My plan is to go for my Level 2 at FITS with a Binder Design Velociraptor on a K270 long burn.?? Built stock and unglassed.?? I did foam the fin can though, but you can't hold that against me :-)?? Great kit.?? Thanks for putting it out.?? I understand Brad will be putting up a 1.5x upscale Velociraptor the same day.???? Should be cool. Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 2:53:19 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Stock kits are fine as long as you fly them on the recommended motors. If you plan on flying bigger motors or high thrust motors than recommended by the kit manufacturer, then there is nothing wrong with beefing it up. IMO, stock kits do not show "newbie" status. I build every Binder Design kit bone stock and try to shred it as best I can before releasing it to ensure that it can withstand beyond the recommended motors without modification. Every day I take phone calls from customers who insist that they need to fiberglass the airframe and fins for their L1 and L2 rocket based on the advice of "experienced" flyers. Not true. We've all seen instances where a person going for their L1 cert has built a rocket that could withstand an M (me included). As newbies we tend to over-estimate the forces involved at the expense of overbuilding and unnecessary weight. If you have a well engineered kit, stock is good! Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/3/2009 10:09:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net writes: First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely done. I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In preparing for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was met with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant electronics last weekend at Mansfield. The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. Just my two cents. Bryan Whitemarsh -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange a little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to launch! You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight stock! :) Kits aren't really kits. They're suggestions. +McG+ > Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast > Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket > had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss > a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its > life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time > this last couple of weeks to finish it off: > Message > ?? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > ?? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few > modifications and upgrades: > Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was > slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough > to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor > tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the > body tube). > Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. > Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the > body with one I made out of balsa. > Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed > platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface > warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with > the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). > I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. > I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that > once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might > get finished. > I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H > motor for first flight. > Cheers! > -Glenn Graham > At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: > ?? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL > At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: > ?? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 > 4554905/ _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Funny you should mention that, Mike.? My plan is to go for my Level 2 at FITS with a Binder Design Velociraptor on a K270 long burn.? Built stock and unglassed.? I did foam the fin can though, but you can't hold that against me :-)? Great kit.? Thanks for putting it out.? I understand Brad will be putting up a 1.5x upscale Velociraptor the same day.?? Should be cool. ? Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 2:53:19 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Stock kits are fine as long as you fly them on the recommended motors. If you plan on flying bigger motors or high thrust motors than recommended by the kit manufacturer, then there is nothing wrong with beefing it up. IMO, stock kits do not show "newbie" status. I build every Binder Design kit bone stock and try to shred it as best I can before releasing it to ensure that it can withstand beyond the recommended motors without modification. Every day I take phone calls from customers who insist that they need to fiberglass the airframe and fins for their L1 and L2 rocket based on the advice of "experienced" flyers. Not true. We've all seen instances where a person going for their L1 cert has built a rocket that could withstand an M (me included). As newbies we tend to over-estimate the forces involved at the expense of overbuilding and unnecessary weight. If you have a well engineered kit, stock is good! Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/3/2009 10:09:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net writes: First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely done. I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In preparing for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was met with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant electronics last weekend at Mansfield. The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. Just my two cents. Bryan Whitemarsh -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange a little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to launch! You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight stock! :) Kits aren't really kits. They're suggestions. +McG+ > Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast > Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket > had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss > a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its > life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time > this last couple of weeks to finish it off: > Message > ?? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > ?? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few > modifications and upgrades: > Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was > slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough > to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor > tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the > body tube). > Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. > Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the > body with one I made out of balsa. > Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed > platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface > warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with > the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). > I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. > I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that > once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might > get finished. > I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H > motor for first flight. > Cheers! > -Glenn Graham > At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: > ?? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL > At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: > ?? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 > 4554905/ _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From clappfamily at comcast.net Sun May 3 15:50:00 2009 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (ClappFamily) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 15:50:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] References: <8FAB052CBA9B497F9D2087971E30C731@D8M6PR71><00f901c9cc25$23131840$693948c0$@com><002401c9cc2a$f2ffc170$d8ff4450$@net> Message-ID: Hey! We could use those Easy-up Liftoff warnings! :-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: "Dave Proffitt" ; "OROC List" Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > Ruin the outdoor wedding Warning. > Easy-up lift off Warning. > Your neightbor tree is looking at your garage Warning. > Just got you hair done Warning. > So hot that it'll fry the pipples off a teenagers face Warning. > HDAIFHO Warning. > Watermelon size hail Warning. > > In the NW we get so little extreme weather. So any time we do, the news > stations go crazy. "Next on FOXnews, Spring Storm Watch 2009." And then > there's always the reporter that drew the short straw that gets stuck > doing > the report from the Columbia River gorge (Troutdale) in 90 MPH winds and > sideways rain/snow. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Proffitt" > To: "OROC List" > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] > > >> We were watching TV in the break room at work when the public alarm deal >> went off on the TV and this big red stripe came acrossed the screen >> giving >> us the old Severe Thunderstorm warning. I'm surprised the news people >> didn't start talking tornado warnings and the schools letting the kids >> out >> early because of a thunderstorm warning. I wonder what people from >> Oklahoma >> and Texas think of stuff like this? Next thing you know we'll be getting >> cloud warnings and rain warning. A severe temperature drop warning, "a >> temperature drop warning is in effect for the greater Portland area. >> Temperatures are expected to plummet 2 degrees.!" How about an unpleasant >> day outside warning? Gloomy warnings, gray warnings, too hot too cold, >> boring the list could go on. >> >> Dave Proffitt >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy >> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 12:27 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >> >> Yeah, we got hammered with the heavest rain I've seen here in a while in >> Bonney Lake. Sounded like hail on the roof, but was just big 'ol >> raindrops. >> >> Did not disturb the fiberglassing of the 11.4 inch airframe being worked >> on >> in the garage... >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On >>> Behalf Of Bill Munds >>> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:28 AM >>> To: ClappFamily; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >>> >>> >>> Power flickered here in the Kitsap Pennisula. Dave lost power for a bit >> and >>> the power at the Rocket Ranch flickered. >>> >>> Lots of rain. Much debris scattered about. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >>> Join me >>> >>> >>> >>> > From: clappfamily at comcast.net >>> > To: rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:16:16 -0700 >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >>> > >>> > A lot of signal lights are flashing red in Vancouver. So it looks like >>> > we took a power hit as well. >>> > >>> > Rick >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Don Harris " >>> > To: >>> > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:39 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >>> > >>> > >>> > > Just came from outside. My neighbor thinks we had a small funnel >>> > > cloud come through because of all the large amounts of debris. I >>> > > think the tree that has now turned his car into a compact might also >>> > > have brought him to that conclusion... >>> > > >>> > > Don >>> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: Robert Krausert >>> > > >>> > > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:10:40 >>> > > To: ; >>> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm [ot] >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Forest Grove; On and off heavy down pours w/ (I'm guessing here) 30+ >>> > > MPH gusts. From here the clouds look to be heading North. We still >>> > > have power at this moment. No T-storm here. >>> > > >>> > > Cheers, >>> > > Robert >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > From: "Don Harris " >>> > > To: >>> > > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:00 PM >>> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thunder Storm >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > Just lost my power here in Tigard... Thank god for Blackberry`s. >>> > > > >>> > > > Don >>> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>> > > > >>> > > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > > Rockets mailing list >>> > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > Rockets mailing list >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lsagan123 at msn.com Sun May 3 17:35:53 2009 From: lsagan123 at msn.com (Sareth Tes) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 00:35:53 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: <11D351454E504B0FBF765943B7361543@TNTCENTER> References: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net> <9CC3F11F1BC640E48CF8CEE8AA3093C0@BryanPC> <11D351454E504B0FBF765943B7361543@TNTCENTER> Message-ID: I still consider myself a newbie, I have been at L1 for at least 4 years, I may try L2 this year, Slow and steady wins the race. I have asked questions on here and not been rebuffed on any subject. If I had owned the electronics before I did my L1 flight I may have tried to use them. As it is I have flown maybe a dozen flights with electronics and still get a case of the nervous nellies every time I launch with them. Bryan Congrats! I am happy to see some one exceed me regardless of if we are talking Hobby or real world. It gives me a new source of info to tap some of the questions I have asked may have seen silly but to be honest everyone that replied ON list or Off were helpful. Don't let a unintended misperception ruin the fun or stop you from asking. And Yes the Bomarc is beautiful. Ralph Strauser TRA 006672 > From: tnetcenter at gmail.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:21:52 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC > > Newbie or not, no one should EVER be afraid to ask a question on this list > concerning rocketry. This is how people learn all the "ins and outs". > Hopefully, without repeating others mistakes. > > As for the Level 1 cert with electronics - congratulations on passing your > cert! Some people are prepared to step-up to the complexities of flying > electronics for deployment for L1 cert flights. Some are not! Sometimes > circumstances conspire to guarantee that in spite of all the > knowledge/experience a person might have, multiple cert flights are > necessary. > > The discussion ensued regarding your cert flight plans because typically > most rocketeers don't get into electronics until the L2 or even L3 cert > attempts. This is precisely because of the daunting nature of getting into > HPR. > > I know that my own journey into HPR has required me to learn (or brush up > on) electronics, composite construction, chemistry, physics, engineering, > etc. Very few people getting into HPR have all that knowledge and in fact > even a lot of those in HPR now don't have all of that info to work with. > That's the niche(among others) that this list is used to fill. I don't have > all the knowledge I need, but I know that I can get the answers I need here! > > Enjoy, it only gets better! > > Jeff Moore > BORG > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Whitemarsh" > > First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely done. > > I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" > having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In preparing > for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was met > with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another > level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to > insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety > risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a > modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant > electronics last weekend at Mansfield. > > The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying > straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat > tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, > and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't > take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. > > I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to > offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little > that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would > be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. > > Just my two cents. > > Bryan Whitemarsh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- I?still consider myself a newbie, I have been at L1 for at least 4 years, I may try?L2 this year, Slow and steady wins the race. I have asked questions on here and not been rebuffed?on any subject. If I had owned the electronics before I did my?L1 flight I may have tried to use them. As it is I have?flown maybe a dozen flights with electronics and still get a case of the nervous nellies every time I launch with them. Bryan Congrats! I am happy to see some one exceed me regardless of if we are talking Hobby or real world. It gives me a new source of info to tap ?some of the questions I have asked may have seen silly but to be honest everyone that replied ON list or Off were helpful. Don't let a unintended misperception ruin the fun or stop you from asking.?And Yes the Bomarc?is beautiful. ? Ralph Strauser TRA 006672 ? > From: tnetcenter at gmail.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:21:52 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC > > Newbie or not, no one should EVER be afraid to ask a question on this list > concerning rocketry. This is how people learn all the "ins and outs". > Hopefully, without repeating others mistakes. > > As for the Level 1 cert with electronics - congratulations on passing your > cert! Some people are prepared to step-up to the complexities of flying > electronics for deployment for L1 cert flights. Some are not! Sometimes > circumstances conspire to guarantee that in spite of all the > knowledge/experience a person might have, multiple cert flights are > necessary. > > The discussion ensued regarding your cert flight plans because typically > most rocketeers don't get into electronics until the L2 or even L3 cert > attempts. This is precisely because of the daunting nature of getting into > HPR. > > I know that my own journey into HPR has required me to learn (or brush up > on) electronics, composite construction, chemistry, physics, engineering, > etc. Very few people getting into HPR have all that knowledge and in fact > even a lot of those in HPR now don't have all of that info to work with. > That's the niche(among others) that this list is used to fill. I don't have > all the knowledge I need, but I know that I can get the answers I need here! > > Enjoy, it only gets better! > > Jeff Moore > BORG > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Whitemarsh" > > First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely done. > > I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" > having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In preparing > for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was met > with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another > level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to > insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety > risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a > modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant > electronics last weekend at Mansfield. > > The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying > straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat > tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, > and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't > take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. > > I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to > offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little > that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would > be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. > > Just my two cents. > > Bryan Whitemarsh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bigrockets at verizon.net Sun May 3 19:41:00 2009 From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 19:41:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101c9cc61$c3864360$4a92ca20$@net> My level 1 cert rocket was a LOC IV. On the advice of a now non-employee of Tammie's Hobbies I installed a 38mm motor tube in it. He sold me the necessary 38 X 4" centering rings. I built the rocket entirely stock except for that. I certified it on an I211. No problems. If you remember the LOC IV did not use "MOTOR TUBE" fin anchoring. Just on the air frame. IMO, not a good idea but none the less I built my level 1 rocket exactly like the instructions said except for installing a larger motor tube. Dave Proffitt Mountain Oldsmobile -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 2:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Stock kits are fine as long as you fly them on the recommended motors. If you plan on flying bigger motors or high thrust motors than recommended by the kit manufacturer, then there is nothing wrong with beefing it up. IMO, stock kits do not show "newbie" status. I build every Binder Design kit bone stock and try to shred it as best I can before releasing it to ensure that it can withstand beyond the recommended motors without modification. Every day I take phone calls from customers who insist that they need to fiberglass the airframe and fins for their L1 and L2 rocket based on the advice of "experienced" flyers. Not true. We've all seen instances where a person going for their L1 cert has built a rocket that could withstand an M (me included). As newbies we tend to over-estimate the forces involved at the expense of overbuilding and unnecessary weight. If you have a well engineered kit, stock is good! Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/3/2009 10:09:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bwhitemarsh at comcast.net writes: First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely done. I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In preparing for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was met with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant electronics last weekend at Mansfield. The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. Just my two cents. Bryan Whitemarsh -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange a little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to launch! You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight stock! :) Kits aren't really kits. They're suggestions. +McG+ > Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast > Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket > had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss > a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its > life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time > this last couple of weeks to finish it off: > Message > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ > ? > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ > Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few > modifications and upgrades: > Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original > was slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long > enough to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to > the motor tube (they definitely needed more strength than just > attaching to the body tube). > Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. > Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the > body with one I made out of balsa. > Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed > platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface > warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces > with the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). > I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as needed. > I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that > once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might > get finished. > I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H > motor for first flight. > Cheers! > -Glenn Graham > At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: > ? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL > At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: > ? > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 > 4554905/ _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) From brodwcjj at integrity.com Sun May 3 20:09:11 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:09:11 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090503220911.1550401q3ja183gg@wm.integrity.com> Hi Mike, A couple years ago I recall seeing you fly a stock Jackhammer on a super FAST Ex motor. (Brothers OROC Ex launch, spring I think) What was the designation of that motor ? Thanks in advance, Dustin From: Mfreptiles at aol.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Stock kits are fine as long as you fly them on the recommended motors. If you plan on flying bigger motors or high thrust motors than recommended by the kit manufacturer, then there is nothing wrong with beefing it up. IMO, stock kits do not show "newbie" status. I build every Binder Design kit bone stock and try to shred it as best I can before releasing it to ensure that it can withstand beyond the recommended motors without modification. Every day I take phone calls from customers who insist that they need to fiberglass the airframe and fins for their L1 and L2 rocket based on the advice of "experienced" flyers. Not true. We've all seen instances where a person going for their L1 cert has built a rocket that could withstand an M (me included). As newbies we tend to over-estimate the forces involved at the expense of overbuilding and unnecessary weight. If you have a well engineered kit, stock is good! Mike Fisher Binder Design From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun May 3 20:16:56 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 23:16:56 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC Message-ID: According to the ARTS motor analyzer, J1186. Mike In a message dated 5/3/2009 8:09:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, brodwcjj at integrity.com writes: Hi Mike, A couple years ago I recall seeing you fly a stock Jackhammer on a super FAST Ex motor. (Brothers OROC Ex launch, spring I think) What was the designation of that motor ? Thanks in advance, Dustin From: Mfreptiles at aol.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Stock kits are fine as long as you fly them on the recommended motors. If you plan on flying bigger motors or high thrust motors than recommended by the kit manufacturer, then there is nothing wrong with beefing it up. IMO, stock kits do not show "newbie" status. I build every Binder Design kit bone stock and try to shred it as best I can before releasing it to ensure that it can withstand beyond the recommended motors without modification. Every day I take phone calls from customers who insist that they need to fiberglass the airframe and fins for their L1 and L2 rocket based on the advice of "experienced" flyers. Not true. We've all seen instances where a person going for their L1 cert has built a rocket that could withstand an M (me included). As newbies we tend to over-estimate the forces involved at the expense of overbuilding and unnecessary weight. If you have a well engineered kit, stock is good! Mike Fisher Binder Design _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) -------------- next part -------------- According to the ARTS motor analyzer, J1186. ? Mike ? In a message dated 5/3/2009 8:09:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, brodwcjj at integrity.com writes: Hi Mike, A couple years ago I recall seeing you fly a stock Jackhammer on a? super FAST? Ex motor.?? (Brothers OROC Ex launch,? spring I think) What was the designation of that motor ? Thanks in advance, Dustin From: Mfreptiles at aol.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Stock kits are fine as long as you fly them on the recommended? motors.? If you plan on flying bigger motors or high thrust motors than? recommended by the kit manufacturer, then there is nothing wrong with beefing it? up. IMO, stock kits do not show "newbie" status.? I build every Binder? Design kit bone stock and try to shred it as best I can before releasing it to ensure that it can withstand beyond the recommended motors without modification.? Every day I take phone calls from customers who insist? that? they need to fiberglass the airframe and fins for their L1 and L2 rocket based? on the advice of "experienced" flyers.? Not true. We've all seen instances where a person going for their L1 cert has built a ? rocket that could withstand an M (me included).? As newbies we tend to over-estimate the forces involved at the expense of overbuilding and unnecessary weight.? If you have a well engineered kit, stock is? good! Mike Fisher Binder Design _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003 Get the Radio Toolbar ! From greg at blastzone.com Sun May 3 21:22:53 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 21:22:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Message-ID: <023601c9cc6f$fecf1470$fc6d3d50$@com> Once upon a time there was a product I used all the time for smoothing out the weave of fiberglassed tubes. I think it was by a company named 'hobbypoxy' called fastfill. It was a white material that came in quart cans. It could be brushed on, dried pretty quick, and sanded super nice. Could do one or two coats with sanding after each coat and go from a fiberglassed tube with the weave showing through to a glass smooth surface. Unfortunately, it no longer appears to be available. Is anyone aware of a similar product out there? All I can seem to find are sprayable high fill primers, which would be great if I wanted to mess with a spray setup, which I don't. There's also spray cans of similar stuff, but spendy. Can the sprayable products be brushed on? Thanks for any tips! Greg From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun May 3 21:28:19 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 00:28:19 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Message-ID: Superfil, or UV Smooth Prime. Both go on with a brush or roller. Mike F. In a message dated 5/3/2009 9:23:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, greg at blastzone.com writes: Once upon a time there was a product I used all the time for smoothing out the weave of fiberglassed tubes. I think it was by a company named 'hobbypoxy' called fastfill. It was a white material that came in quart cans. It could be brushed on, dried pretty quick, and sanded super nice. Could do one or two coats with sanding after each coat and go from a fiberglassed tube with the weave showing through to a glass smooth surface. Unfortunately, it no longer appears to be available. Is anyone aware of a similar product out there? All I can seem to find are sprayable high fill primers, which would be great if I wanted to mess with a spray setup, which I don't. There's also spray cans of similar stuff, but spendy. Can the sprayable products be brushed on? Thanks for any tips! Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) -------------- next part -------------- Superfil, or UV Smooth Prime.? Both go on with a brush or roller. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/3/2009 9:23:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, greg at blastzone.com writes: Once upon a time there was a product I used all the time for smoothing out the weave of fiberglassed tubes.? I think it was by a company named 'hobbypoxy' called fastfill.? It was a white material that came in quart cans.? It could be brushed on, dried pretty quick, and sanded super nice. Could do one or two coats with sanding after each coat and go from a fiberglassed tube with the weave showing through to a glass smooth surface. Unfortunately, it no longer appears to be available.? Is anyone aware of a similar product out there?? All I can seem to find are sprayable high fill primers, which would be great if I wanted to mess with a spray setup, which I don't.? There's also spray cans of similar stuff, but spendy.? Can the sprayable products be brushed on?? Thanks for any tips! Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Remember Mom this Mother's Day! http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006 Find a florist near you now . From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun May 3 21:31:59 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 00:31:59 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Message-ID: Correction, the Superfil goes on with a spreader or squeegee, the UV Smooth Prime can be rolled, brushed or sprayed. It's also water based. Mike In a message dated 5/3/2009 9:28:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Mfreptiles at aol.com writes: Superfil, or UV Smooth Prime. Both go on with a brush or roller. Mike F. **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) -------------- next part -------------- Correction, the Superfil goes on with a spreader or squeegee, the UV Smooth Prime can be rolled, brushed or sprayed.? It's also water based. ? Mike ? In a message dated 5/3/2009 9:28:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Mfreptiles at aol.com writes: Superfil, or UV Smooth Prime.? Both go on with a brush or? roller. Mike F. Remember Mom this Mother's Day! http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006 Find a florist near you now . From greg at blastzone.com Sun May 3 21:37:43 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 21:37:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <023d01c9cc72$10f4b360$32de1a20$@com> Ah, cool. And looks like there's a dealer close to us here in Puyallup. $50 a quart is a little steep, but if it works it'll be worth it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 9:32 PM > To: greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? > > Correction, the Superfil goes on with a spreader or squeegee, the UV Smooth > Prime can be rolled, brushed or sprayed. It's also water based. > > Mike > > > In a message dated 5/3/2009 9:28:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > Mfreptiles at aol.com writes: > > Superfil, or UV Smooth Prime. Both go on with a brush or roller. > > Mike F. > > > **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) From sb at berfield.com Sun May 3 21:45:12 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 04:45:12 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Message-ID: I use microspheres in West Epoxy. Not supre fast curing, but very sandable and you can mix to any stiffness. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 09:22 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Once upon a time there was a product I used all the time for smoothing outthe weave of fiberglassed tubes. I think it was by a company named'hobbypoxy' called fastfill. It was a white material that came in quartcans. It could be brushed on, dried pretty quick, and sanded super nice.Could do one or two coats with sanding after each coat and go from afiberglassed tube with the weave showing through to a glass smooth surface.Unfortunately, it no longer appears to be available. Is anyone aware of asimilar product out there? All I can seem to find are sprayable high fillprimers, which would be great if I wanted to mess with a spray setup, whichI don't. There's also spray cans of similar stuff, but spendy. Can thesprayable products be brushed on? Thanks for any tips!Greg_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- I use microspheres in West Epoxy. Not supre fast curing, but very sandable and you can mix to any stiffness. ? -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 09:22 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Once upon a time there was a product I used all the time for smoothing out the weave of fiberglassed tubes. I think it was by a company named 'hobbypoxy' called fastfill. It was a white material that came in quart cans. It could be brushed on, dried pretty quick, and sanded super nice. Could do one or two coats with sanding after each coat and go from a fiberglassed tube with the weave showing through to a glass smooth surface. Unfortunately, it no longer appears to be available. Is anyone aware of a similar product out there? All I can seem to find are sprayable high fill primers, which would be great if I wanted to mess with a spray setup, which I don't. There's also spray cans of similar stuff, but spendy. Can the sprayable products be brushed on? Thanks for any tips! Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From brodwcjj at integrity.com Sun May 3 21:46:09 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 23:46:09 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090503234609.76021tuxztns2yjo@wm.integrity.com> Thanks Mike, I remember that neck-snapping flight and seeing it recovered in good shape. Then I was convinced that my stock Jackhammer, for L2 cert, on a J350 was going to be just fine. and it was. Dustin From: Mfreptiles at aol.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC To: rockets at rocketsnw.com According to the ARTS motor analyzer, J1186. Mike In a message dated 5/3/2009 8:09:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, brodwcjj at integrity.com writes: Hi Mike, A couple years ago I recall seeing you fly a stock Jackhammer on a super FAST Ex motor. (Brothers OROC Ex launch, spring I think) What was the designation of that motor ? Thanks in advance, Dustin From: Mfreptiles at aol.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Stock kits are fine as long as you fly them on the recommended motors. If you plan on flying bigger motors or high thrust motors than recommended by the kit manufacturer, then there is nothing wrong with beefing it up. IMO, stock kits do not show "newbie" status. I build every Binder Design kit bone stock and try to shred it as best I can before releasing it to ensure that it can withstand beyond the recommended motors without modification. Every day I take phone calls from customers who insist that they need to fiberglass the airframe and fins for their L1 and L2 rocket based on the advice of "experienced" flyers. Not true. We've all seen instances where a person going for their L1 cert has built a rocket that could withstand an M (me included). As newbies we tend to over-estimate the forces involved at the expense of overbuilding and unnecessary weight. If you have a well engineered kit, stock is good! Mike Fisher From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Sun May 3 22:07:07 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 22:07:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <018a01c9cc76$2cee45f0$86cad1d0$@net> I do the same thing and with some heat it cures fairly fast - a few hours. The issue I see with the UV Smooth Prime is that it lists 2 - 3 weeks of cure to insure all of the water is removed before top coating. The other approach is automotive primer which is normally sprayed. I and a couple of others have used the PPG Omni MP282 High Build Surfacer/Primer. It works well (particularly once you learn how to clean out your spray gun properly). Based upon the consistency of the unreduced version I am betting it could be brushed since the plan is to sand it afterwords. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Greg Deputy; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? I use microspheres in West Epoxy. Not supre fast curing, but very sandable and you can mix to any stiffness. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 09:22 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Once upon a time there was a product I used all the time for smoothing outthe weave of fiberglassed tubes. I think it was by a company named'hobbypoxy' called fastfill. It was a white material that came in quartcans. It could be brushed on, dried pretty quick, and sanded super nice.Could do one or two coats with sanding after each coat and go from afiberglassed tube with the weave showing through to a glass smooth surface.Unfortunately, it no longer appears to be available. Is anyone aware of asimilar product out there? All I can seem to find are sprayable high fillprimers, which would be great if I wanted to mess with a spray setup, whichI don't. There's also spray cans of similar stuff, but spendy. Can thesprayable products be brushed on? Thanks for any tips!Greg_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Mon May 4 10:57:49 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 17:57:49 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] White Knight flight Message-ID: Footage of Virgin's test flight of the White Knight aircraft. http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/exclusive-video-of-virgin-galactics-test-flight/ -------------- next part -------------- Footage of Virgin's test flight of the White Knight aircraft. http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/exclusive-video-of-virgin-galactics-test-flight/ From Mfreptiles at aol.com Mon May 4 11:14:50 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 14:14:50 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Anybody from Salem area going to FITS? Message-ID: I've got a 12 quart mixer that needs a ride to FITS. Steven Buettner is the proud new owner. Mike F. **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) -------------- next part -------------- I've got a 12 quart mixer that needs a ride to FITS.? Steven Buettner is the proud new owner. ? Mike F. Remember Mom this Mother's Day! http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006 Find a florist near you now . From jhadv at pacifier.com Mon May 4 12:25:51 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 12:25:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] White Knight flight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090504122502.038846a8@mail.iinet.com> Who want's to be the first to land that baby in a strong gusting crosswind? From winningstad at comcast.net Mon May 4 13:53:35 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 13:53:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] White Knight flight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31400C10CD2948C1B715245B640C9D88@downstair> I am going out on a limb and saying with that wide stance, cross winds shouldn't be a big deal... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 10:58 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] White Knight flight Footage of Virgin's test flight of the White Knight aircraft. http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/exclusive-video-of-virgin-galactics-tes t-flight/ From Simpsonclark at aol.com Mon May 4 16:57:49 2009 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 19:57:49 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Message-ID: If the weave is tight, that is, a light outer fabric, pure epoxy is fine for filling. The normal industry standard is to apply a coarse inner (structural) fabric with a mat layer outside of that (as many layers as required), then a fine weave (6.5 oz., typically) then either fill with epoxy or apply a fine (0.5 oz) mat and sand. Absent this layup, microballoons are cheap, easy and can be used for a variety of other applications... everybody should have a half a pound on hand anyway. Bear in mind that sanding into the structural fabric is a no-no. -Robert In a message dated 5/3/2009 9:07:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, MartyWeiser at comcast.net writes: I do the same thing and with some heat it cures fairly fast - a few hours. The issue I see with the UV Smooth Prime is that it lists 2 - 3 weeks of cure to insure all of the water is removed before top coating. The other approach is automotive primer which is normally sprayed. I and a couple of others have used the PPG Omni MP282 High Build Surfacer/Primer. It works well (particularly once you learn how to clean out your spray gun properly). Based upon the consistency of the unreduced version I am betting it could be brushed since the plan is to sand it afterwords. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Greg Deputy; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? I use microspheres in West Epoxy. Not supre fast curing, but very sandable and you can mix to any stiffness. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 09:22 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Once upon a time there was a product I used all the time for smoothing outthe weave of fiberglassed tubes. I think it was by a company named'hobbypoxy' called fastfill. It was a white material that came in quartcans. It could be brushed on, dried pretty quick, and sanded super nice.Could do one or two coats with sanding after each coat and go from afiberglassed tube with the weave showing through to a glass smooth surface.Unfortunately, it no longer appears to be available. Is anyone aware of asimilar product out there? All I can seem to find are sprayable high fillprimers, which would be great if I wanted to mess with a spray setup, whichI don't. There's also spray cans of similar stuff, but spendy. Can thesprayable products be brushed on? Thanks for any tips!Greg_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) -------------- next part -------------- If the weave is tight, that is, a light outer fabric, pure epoxy is fine for filling.? The normal industry standard is to apply a coarse inner (structural) fabric with a mat layer outside of that (as many layers as required), then a fine weave (6.5 oz., typically) then either fill with epoxy or apply a fine (0.5 oz) mat and sand.? Absent this layup, microballoons are cheap, easy and can be used for a variety of other applications... everybody should have a half a pound on hand anyway.? Bear in mind that sanding into the structural fabric is a no-no. -Robert ? ? In a message dated 5/3/2009 9:07:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, MartyWeiser at comcast.net writes: I do the same thing and with some heat it cures fairly fast - a few hours. The issue I see with the UV Smooth Prime is that it lists 2 - 3 weeks of cure to insure all of the water is removed before top coating.? The other approach is automotive primer which is normally sprayed.? I and a couple of others have used the PPG Omni MP282 High Build Surfacer/Primer.? It works well (particularly once you learn how to clean out your spray gun properly). Based upon the consistency of the unreduced version I am betting it could be brushed since the plan is to sand it afterwords. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 9:45 PM To: Greg Deputy; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? I use microspheres in West Epoxy. Not supre fast curing, but very sandable and you can mix to any stiffness. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 09:22 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Brushable sandable filler/primer? Once upon a time there was a product I used all the time for smoothing outthe weave of fiberglassed tubes. I think it was by a company named'hobbypoxy' called fastfill. It was a white material that came in quartcans. It could be brushed on, dried pretty quick, and sanded super nice.Could do one or two coats with sanding after each coat and go from afiberglassed tube with the weave showing through to a glass smooth surface.Unfortunately, it no longer appears to be available. Is anyone aware of asimilar product out there? All I can seem to find are sprayable high fillprimers, which would be great if I wanted to mess with a spray setup, whichI don't. There's also spray cans of similar stuff, but spendy. Can thesprayable products be brushed on? Thanks for any tips!Greg_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Remember Mom this Mother's Day! http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006 Find a florist near you now . From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon May 4 19:05:56 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 19:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: <9CC3F11F1BC640E48CF8CEE8AA3093C0@BryanPC> References: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net> <9CC3F11F1BC640E48CF8CEE8AA3093C0@BryanPC> Message-ID: > The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Having been the one to make that comment I can most definitely say that it was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But people new to rocketry quite often do build kits straight stock, and for good reasons. I personally recommend that--except for that stupid rubber band shock cord in model rocket kits. First you carefully read and follow the instructions to learn the 'standard' way of doing things. Later, as one's knowledge and experience grows, the urge to personalize or improve on the kit becomes irresistible. For rocketeers who started out using rubber band shock cords the urge to modify a kit is in fact obsessive. For rocketeers who started out on Binder Design and some others, much less so. On rare occasions it does pretty much become a matter of replicating the kit and putting the original parts back in the bag. But even old timers still sometimes build kits stock for various reasons. A well designed kit doesn't need any modification. If you have to modify it to get it to work right then it wasn't well designed. I've built a few kits where following the instructions would have been disastrous. If you're modifying a kit to make it do things it was never intended to do, you're a "power user." As for philosophies about cert flights, I once heard a very funny story about when Tripoli changed its cert requirements for what we now call levels two and three. Maybe Dave Davis or someone else from that period can pass it on to the current generation. Except I think maybe he was one of the, uh, main characters in the story. It's where a lot of the Pacific Northwest's cert flight philosophy trickles down from. I'd tell it, but I wasn't there and I've forgotten most of the details. Congrats on your cert! +McG+ > First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely > done. > > I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" > having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In > preparing > for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was > met > with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another > level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to > insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety > risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a > modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant > electronics last weekend at Mansfield. > > The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying > straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat > tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, > and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't > take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. > > I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to > offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little > that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would > be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. > > Just my two cents. > > Bryan Whitemarsh > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC > > Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better > materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange > a > little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to > launch! > > You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight > stock! :) > > Kits aren't really kits. They're suggestions. > +McG+ > > >> Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast >> Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket >> had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss >> a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its >> life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time >> this last couple of weeks to finish it off: >> Message >> ? >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ >> ? >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ >> Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few >> modifications and upgrades: >> Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was >> slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough >> to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor >> tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the >> body tube). >> Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. >> Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the >> body with one I made out of balsa. >> Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed >> platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface >> warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with >> the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). >> I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as >> needed. >> I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that >> once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might >> get finished. >> I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H >> motor for first flight. >> Cheers! >> -Glenn Graham >> At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: >> ?? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL >> At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: >> ? >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 >> 4554905/ _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From t.j.doll at att.net Mon May 4 19:32:43 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 02:32:43 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster Message-ID: <050520090232.10260.49FFA54B000072A80000281422230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Hi All I'm starting work on a new project - an Estes 1/100 Saturn V powered by a five engine cluster. As currently envisioned, it will retain the center 24mm engine, with four 18mm engines around the outside. I'm thinking it would be pretty cool to put four C6 motors around the outside to get it going with a center AP motor - perhaps a long burner such as an F12 or maybe a real long burning Apogee E6 in the middle mount (I'm thinking a seven second burn on a Saturn V would be pretty cool ). However, I worry about getting an AP center motor ignited - as currently envisioned only the center engine would pop the chutes (the outboard motors would vent the ejection overboard), so if the AP doesn't ignite it'll be a lawn dart. I suppose I could change the design so that the outboard ejection charges could also blow the chute, but that be messy (and limit my engine choices). I suppose I could use an on-board electronic ejection (set up to trigger at liftoff), but I'd rather not, and it still wouldn't help if the igniter failed to light the motor. I've had real good luck using Quickburst "Twiggy" igniters in my AP motors, but it'll be hard to find a Twiggy that will fit in a 24mm motor nozzle and Copperheads have always been crap shoot. So, what does every one think? Am I tempting fate to mix AP and black powered, with the AP motor being critical? Any other suggestions? Thanks Tim -------------- next part -------------- Hi All ? I'm starting work on a new project - an Estes 1/100 Saturn V powered by a five engine cluster.? As currently envisioned, it will retain the center 24mm engine, with four 18mm engines around the outside.? I'm thinking it would be pretty cool to put four C6 motors around the outside to get it going with a center AP motor - perhaps a long burner such as an F12 or? maybe a real long burning Apogee E6 in the middle mount (I'm thinking a seven second burn on a Saturn V?would be pretty cool ).? However, I worry about getting an AP center motor ignited - as currently envisioned only the center engine would pop the chutes (the outboard motors would vent the ejection overboard), so if the AP doesn't ignite it'll be a lawn dart.? I suppose I could change the design so that the outboard ejection charges could also blow the chute, but that be messy (and limit my engine choices).? I suppose I could use an on-board electronic ejection (set up to trigger at liftoff), but I'd rather not, and it still wouldn't help if the igniter failed to light the motor.? I've had real good luck using Quickburst "Twiggy" igniters?in my AP motors, but it'll be hard to find a Twiggy that will fit in a 24mm motor nozzle and Copperheads have always been crap shoot. ? So, what does every one think?? Am I tempting fate to mix AP and black powered, with the AP motor being critical?? Any other suggestions? ? Thanks ? Tim From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 4 19:39:18 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 19:39:18 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC References: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net><9CC3F11F1BC640E48CF8CEE8AA3093C0@BryanPC> Message-ID: <58B49C4A179348E3A8CBB6242F5C3C7B@LaptopKrausert> There's something to be said about that. Ken made some very good points. The one thing at Brothers that is always interesting to watch are the rubber band and string shock cords. At Brothers there are some amazing thermals happening. I recall seeing the rocket come back to Earth and the chute hover for what seems hours, difting along with no care. Who knows. They probably land in Idaho. ;-) My response; Welcome to level 1, get out your checkbook. Congrats. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Bryan Whitemarsh" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC > The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Having been the one to make that comment I can most definitely say that it was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But people new to rocketry quite often do build kits straight stock, and for good reasons. I personally recommend that--except for that stupid rubber band shock cord in model rocket kits. First you carefully read and follow the instructions to learn the 'standard' way of doing things. Later, as one's knowledge and experience grows, the urge to personalize or improve on the kit becomes irresistible. For rocketeers who started out using rubber band shock cords the urge to modify a kit is in fact obsessive. For rocketeers who started out on Binder Design and some others, much less so. On rare occasions it does pretty much become a matter of replicating the kit and putting the original parts back in the bag. But even old timers still sometimes build kits stock for various reasons. A well designed kit doesn't need any modification. If you have to modify it to get it to work right then it wasn't well designed. I've built a few kits where following the instructions would have been disastrous. If you're modifying a kit to make it do things it was never intended to do, you're a "power user." As for philosophies about cert flights, I once heard a very funny story about when Tripoli changed its cert requirements for what we now call levels two and three. Maybe Dave Davis or someone else from that period can pass it on to the current generation. Except I think maybe he was one of the, uh, main characters in the story. It's where a lot of the Pacific Northwest's cert flight philosophy trickles down from. I'd tell it, but I wasn't there and I've forgotten most of the details. Congrats on your cert! +McG+ > First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely > done. > > I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" > having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In > preparing > for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was > met > with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another > level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to > insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a safety > risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a > modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant > electronics last weekend at Mansfield. > > The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying > straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat > tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get into, > and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices shouldn't > take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. > > I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum to > offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little > that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that would > be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. > > Just my two cents. > > Bryan Whitemarsh > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC > > Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better > materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps rearrange > a > little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to > launch! > > You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight > stock! :) > > Kits aren't really kits. They're suggestions. > +McG+ > > >> Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast >> Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket >> had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss >> a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its >> life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time >> this last couple of weeks to finish it off: >> Message >> ? >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ >> ? >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ >> Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few >> modifications and upgrades: >> Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was >> slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough >> to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor >> tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the >> body tube). >> Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. >> Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the >> body with one I made out of balsa. >> Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed >> platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface >> warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with >> the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). >> I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as >> needed. >> I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that >> once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might >> get finished. >> I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H >> motor for first flight. >> Cheers! >> -Glenn Graham >> At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: >> ? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL >> At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: >> ? >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 >> 4554905/ _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 4 20:36:10 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 20:36:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reminder-Oregon Rocketry; Spring Thunder Launch May 15th - 17th Message-ID: <18F493CF193E4FA2872D54C9286E6FBA@LaptopKrausert> "Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight. gonna grab some afternoon rocket flying. Sky rockets in flight. Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight." OK. Now that I got that terrible song stuck in your head, it's time to make an important announcement. That's right boys and girl!!! Oregon Rocketry will be hosting Spring Thunder on May 15th, 16th, and 17th in Brothers Oregon. We've called in a "good weather" waiver and certainly hope you will join us for a great weekend of rocketry and friends. Is that terrible song still stuck in your head? Be careful! Don't look back up to the top of this email, or it might get stuck again. You looked, didn't you? Oregon Rocketry will be hosting the Spring Thunder launch located in Brothers Oregon. We certainly hope you can attend for some fun. Research launch is on Friday May 15th. Must be Tripoli L1 or higher to participate in the prep or range areas. TRA L1 and higher can fly commercial motors and TRA L2 and higher can fly both EX and commercial motors. Others, including invited guests and OROC members can watch from the spectator area of the flight line. Saturday May 16th and Sunday May 17th are commercial motors only, and welcome to everyone to participate. Upon arrival visit the LCO or Registration desk for a wrist band. Everyone present, flier or not, must have a wrist band for the commercial launch days. Everyone is required to sign a liability waiver or have one on file for 2009. Youth under age 18 must have parent or guardian sign a liability waiver as well. Schedule: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/cal/cal-launch.htm Directions: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm The Brother's site is fantastic for launching rockets. If the weather is good, the flying part is fantastic as well. Oregon Rocketry is proud to host a 22,500 feet MSL waiver (18,500 AGL) from 8:00am until 10:00pm, with call-in temporary extensions to 35,000 feet AGL. Night launch will be held on Saturday night from dusk until 10:00pm. Only requirement is the rocket must have lighting so we can see it. Still have two weeks to create an idea and get some lights on it. We are closing in on the event and looking to make sure we have ground support help to make sure the launch event goes well. Similar to all other launches, we look for help so we all of us have an opportunity to launch some rockets. We will need some assistance on Friday afternoon setting up the launch equipment. And again Sunday afternoon we'll need some help to pack up the launch equipment. During the launch, there will be a clipboard at the LCO desk with duties and coverage times. Stop by Saturday morning and if you can help, please put your name down. We truly appreciate the shared experience. Certification Flights: We will have both NAR and TRA representation for L1 and L2 certification flights. If you are planning to certify during the May launch, please send me an email. Include NAR or TRA, what level you're attempting, and day & time you're planning the flight. Also let me know if you are already a member of NAR or TRA. We are planning a Showcase Event on Saturday night at 7:00pm. This showcase is "Recovery Systems." Stop by and share your technique for parachute packaging, protection, and harnesses. Do you tri-fold the chute? Do you pack it into a Kevlar burrito? What material do you use for a shock cord? Do you simply stuff the chute in the rocket? Stop by. Share your recovery system and techniques. Watch techniques of others. This should be fun for all, so participate in the event. New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be prepared to both extremes. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. Camping is allowed and we'll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm Come prepared and have a great time. Families are welcome. Hope to see everyone out on the sage. Take care and see you in a couple weeks. Now I'm off to watch epoxy dry. Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- ?Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight gonna grab some afternoon rocket flying Sky rockets in flight Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight ? ? OK Now that I got that terrible song stuck in your head, it?s time to make an important announcement. That?s right boys and girl!!! Oregon Rocketry will be hosting Spring Thunder on May 15 th , 16 th , and 17 th in Brothers Oregon. We?ve called in a ?good weather? waiver and certainly hope you will join us for a great weekend of rocketry and friends. ? Is that terrible song still stuck in your head? Be careful! Don?t look back up to the top of this email, or it might get stuck again. You looked, didn?t you? ? Oregon Rocketry will be hosting the Spring Thunder launch located in Brothers Oregon. We certainly hope you can attend for some fun. ? Research launch is on Friday May 15 th . Must be Tripoli L1 or higher to participate in the prep or range areas. TRA L1 and higher can fly commercial motors and TRA L2 and higher can fly both EX and commercial motors. Others, including invited guests and OROC members can watch from the spectator area of the flight line. ? Saturday May 16 th and Sunday May 17 th are commercial motors only, and welcome to everyone to participate. Upon arrival visit the LCO or Registration desk for a wrist band. Everyone present, flier or not, must have a wrist band for the commercial launch days. Everyone is required to sign a liability waiver or have one on file for 2009. Youth under age 18 must have parent or guardian sign a liability waiver as well. ? Schedule: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/cal/cal-launch.htm Directions: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm ? The Brother?s site is fantastic for launching rockets. If the weather is good, the flying part is fantastic as well. Oregon Rocketry is proud to host a 22,500 feet MSL waiver (18,500 AGL) from 8:00am until 10:00pm, with call-in temporary extensions to 35,000 feet AGL. Night launch will be held on Saturday night from dusk until 10:00pm. Only requirement is the rocket must have lighting so we can see it. Still have two weeks to create an idea and get some lights on it. ? ? We are closing in on the event and looking to make sure we have ground support help to make sure the launch event goes well. Similar to all other launches, we look for help so we all of us have an opportunity to launch some rockets. We will need some assistance on Friday afternoon setting up the launch equipment. And again Sunday afternoon we?ll need some help to pack up the launch equipment. During the launch, there will be a clipboard at the LCO desk with duties and coverage times. Stop by Saturday morning and if you can help, please put your name down. We truly appreciate the shared experience. ? Certification Flights: We will have both NAR and TRA representation for L1 and L2 certification flights. If you are planning to certify during the May launch, please send me an email. Include NAR or TRA, what level you?re attempting, and day & time you?re planning the flight. Also let me know if you are already a member of NAR or TRA. ? We are planning a Showcase Event on Saturday night at 7:00pm. This showcase is ?Recovery Systems.? Stop by and share your technique for parachute packaging, protection, and harnesses. Do you tri-fold the chute? Do you pack it into a Kevlar burrito? What material do you use for a shock cord? Do you simply stuff the chute in the rocket? Stop by. Share your recovery system and techniques. Watch techniques of others. This should be fun for all, so participate in the event. ? New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be prepared to both extremes. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm ? Come prepared and have a great time. Families are welcome. Hope to see everyone out on the sage. Take care and see you in a couple weeks. Now I?m off to watch epoxy dry. ? Cheers, Robert ? ? From sb at berfield.com Mon May 4 20:38:52 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 20:38:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] White Knight flight In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090504122502.038846a8@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090504122502.038846a8@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <00b401c9cd33$03359840$09a0c8c0$@com> If it meant I could go into space -- in a minute! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 12:26 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] White Knight flight Who want's to be the first to land that baby in a strong gusting crosswind? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Mon May 4 21:01:34 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 21:01:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster In-Reply-To: <050520090232.10260.49FFA54B000072A80000281422230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <050520090232.10260.49FFA54B000072A80000281422230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <012c01c9cd36$2eec3590$8cc4a0b0$@net> Tim, Sounds like an interesting project. I would include some form of electronics in case you don't light the central AP motor (and also make sure you light all 4 C6s and they have enough to get it off the pad). I like the PerfectFlite electronics for a combination of ease of use and cost - the MAWD is a great dual deployment rig and the MT3G is a very good launch activated timer. You might also think of installing a larger central motor if there is room since that opens up 29 and even 32 mm motors (the G12 is 32 mm and designed for radio controlled gliders, but is even better than the F12 or E6). This will even give you room for a custom igniter that may increase the probability of lighting the central AP motor before it leaves the pad. Marty PS Relying on the ignition of even a central D12 or E9 BP motor as part of a 5 motor cluster as the only deployment mode is foolish in my opinion. I fly 7 motor BP clusters where 3 of the motors can deploy the chute (all 7 is too much) and normally have a timer back up for the apogee on dual deployment flights. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:33 PM To: Rocket Lost Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster Hi All I'm starting work on a new project - an Estes 1/100 Saturn V powered by a five engine cluster. As currently envisioned, it will retain the center 24mm engine, with four 18mm engines around the outside. I'm thinking it would be pretty cool to put four C6 motors around the outside to get it going with a center AP motor - perhaps a long burner such as an F12 or maybe a real long burning Apogee E6 in the middle mount (I'm thinking a seven second burn on a Saturn V would be pretty cool ). However, I worry about getting an AP center motor ignited - as currently envisioned only the center engine would pop the chutes (the outboard motors would vent the ejection overboard), so if the AP doesn't ignite it'll be a lawn dart. I suppose I could change the design so that the outboard ejection charges could also blow the chute, but that be messy (and limit my engine choices). I suppose I could use an on-board electronic ejection (set up to trigger at liftoff), but I'd rather not, and it still wouldn't help if the igniter failed to light the motor. I've had real good luck using Quickburst "Twiggy" igniters in my AP motors, but it'll be hard to find a Twiggy that will fit in a 24mm motor nozzle and Copperheads have always been crap shoot. So, what does every one think? Am I tempting fate to mix AP and black powered, with the AP motor being critical? Any other suggestions? Thanks Tim From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com Mon May 4 22:12:57 2009 From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 22:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster Message-ID: <384931.92175.qm@web50208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Tim, ? I built one of the Estes Saturn V 1/100 scale rockets with a 29mm motor mount.? I've flown it with F20s, and a G35 econojet, with good results.? See if you can upgrade to a 29mm motor tube and custom centering rings to match.? Then you can use a bigger igniter too. ? Larry --- On Mon, 5/4/09, t.j.doll at att.net wrote: From: t.j.doll at att.net Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster To: "Rocket Lost" Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 7:32 PM Hi All ? I'm starting work on a new project - an Estes 1/100 Saturn V powered by a five engine cluster.? As currently envisioned, it will retain the center 24mm engine, with four 18mm engines around the outside.? I'm thinking it would be pretty cool to put four C6 motors around the outside to get it going with a center AP motor - perhaps a long burner such as an F12 or? maybe a real long burning Apogee E6 in the middle mount (I'm thinking a seven second burn on a Saturn V?would be pretty cool ).? However, I worry about getting an AP center motor ignited - as currently envisioned only the center engine would pop the chutes (the outboard motors would vent the ejection overboard), so if the AP doesn't ignite it'll be a lawn dart.? I suppose I could change the design so that the outboard ejection charges could also blow the chute, but that be messy (and limit my engine choices).? I suppose I could use an on-board electronic ejection (set up to trigger at liftoff), but I'd rather not, and it still wouldn't help if the igniter failed to light the motor.? I've had real good luck using Quickburst "Twiggy" igniters?in my AP motors, but it'll be hard to find a Twiggy that will fit in a 24mm motor nozzle and Copperheads have always been crap shoot. ? So, what does every one think?? Am I tempting fate to mix AP and black powered, with the AP motor being critical?? Any other suggestions? ? Thanks ? Tim -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- Tim, ? I built one of the Estes Saturn V 1/100 scale rockets with a 29mm motor mount.? I've flown it with F20s, and a G35 econojet, with good results.? See if you can upgrade to a 29mm motor tube and custom centering rings to match.? Then you can use a bigger igniter too. ? Larry --- On Mon, 5/4/09, t.j.doll at att.net wrote: From: t.j.doll at att.net Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster To: "Rocket Lost" Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 7:32 PM Hi All ? I'm starting work on a new project - an Estes 1/100 Saturn V powered by a five engine cluster.? As currently envisioned, it will retain the center 24mm engine, with four 18mm engines around the outside.? I'm thinking it would be pretty cool to put four C6 motors around the outside to get it going with a center AP motor - perhaps a long burner such as an F12 or? maybe a real long burning Apogee E6 in the middle mount (I'm thinking a seven second burn on a Saturn V?would be pretty cool ).? However, I worry about getting an AP center motor ignited - as currently envisioned only the center engine would pop the chutes (the outboard motors would vent the ejection overboard), so if the AP doesn't ignite it'll be a lawn dart.? I suppose I could change the design so that the outboard ejection charges could also blow the chute, but that be messy (and limit my engine choices).? I suppose I could use an on-board electronic ejection (set up to trigger at liftoff), but I'd rather not, and it still wouldn't help if the igniter failed to light the motor.? I've had real good luck using Quickburst "Twiggy" igniters?in my AP motors, but it'll be hard to find a Twiggy that will fit in a 24mm motor nozzle and Copperheads have always been crap shoot. ? So, what does every one think?? Am I tempting fate to mix AP and black powered, with the AP motor being critical?? Any other suggestions? ? Thanks ? Tim -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue May 5 01:19:40 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 01:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC In-Reply-To: <58B49C4A179348E3A8CBB6242F5C3C7B@LaptopKrausert> References: <13922416.23708.1241213837283.JavaMail.root@vms062.mailsrvcs.net><9CC3F11F1BC640E48CF8CEE8AA3093C0@BryanPC> <58B49C4A179348E3A8CBB6242F5C3C7B@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <051276e7a2ed479cf3107a2ed3485d00.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> I may be totally wrong and a cynical old fogy but I eventually concluded that Estes designed the rubber band shock cords to cause as many dents and dings from snap back as possible so people would have to buy more of their kits. The whole idea is to absorb the excess kinetic energy from ejection, not return it with a vengeance! Once you realize that the motor ejection charge is way too much for minimum volume model rockets the solution becomes obvious. There's really no need for new rocketeers to have to find this out the hard way with rubber bands and bungee cords. The hobby has progressed beyond those old concepts. Kevlar thread is great stuff for the little rockets. For adults who start out above the Estes level, it can be fun going back to the little stuff sometimes. Cheaper, too. More than a few advanced rocketeers try out new ideas on the model rocket scale first. Almost every launch sees some very experienced masters of the rocket arts doing modrocs just for fun! And some of those rockets are stock, yes, even a few with rubber band shock cords. Tsk, tsk! :-) +McG+ > There's something to be said about that. Ken made some very good points. > The > one thing at Brothers that is always interesting to watch are the rubber > band and string shock cords. At Brothers there are some amazing thermals > happening. I recall seeing the rocket come back to Earth and the chute > hover > for what seems hours, difting along with no care. Who knows. They probably > land in Idaho. ;-) > > My response; Welcome to level 1, get out your checkbook. Congrats. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Bryan Whitemarsh" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:05 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC > > >> The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying > straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant somewhat > tongue-in-cheek. > > Having been the one to make that comment I can most definitely say that it > was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But people new to rocketry quite often do > build kits straight stock, and for good reasons. I personally recommend > that--except for that stupid rubber band shock cord in model rocket kits. > First you carefully read and follow the instructions to learn the > 'standard' way of doing things. > > Later, as one's knowledge and experience grows, the urge to personalize or > improve on the kit becomes irresistible. For rocketeers who started out > using rubber band shock cords the urge to modify a kit is in fact > obsessive. For rocketeers who started out on Binder Design and some > others, much less so. On rare occasions it does pretty much become a > matter of replicating the kit and putting the original parts back in the > bag. > > But even old timers still sometimes build kits stock for various reasons. > A well designed kit doesn't need any modification. If you have to modify > it to get it to work right then it wasn't well designed. I've built a few > kits where following the instructions would have been disastrous. If > you're modifying a kit to make it do things it was never intended to do, > you're a "power user." > > As for philosophies about cert flights, I once heard a very funny story > about when Tripoli changed its cert requirements for what we now call > levels two and three. Maybe Dave Davis or someone else from that period > can pass it on to the current generation. Except I think maybe he was one > of the, uh, main characters in the story. It's where a lot of the Pacific > Northwest's cert flight philosophy trickles down from. I'd tell it, but I > wasn't there and I've forgotten most of the details. > > Congrats on your cert! > +McG+ > > > >> First, let me add my praise to the beautiful finished product. Nicely >> done. >> >> I have noticed an interesting dichotomy in this hobby. I am a "newbie" >> having just gotten back into rocketry in August of last year. In >> preparing >> for my Level 1 cert, I mentioned I would be using electronics. That was >> met >> with some discussion, including opinions for and against adding another >> level of difficulty to a certification flight. Some went so far as to >> insinuate that a "newbie" using electronics for ejection may pose a >> safety >> risk to others at the launch. I successfully certified Level 1 with a >> modified GLR Crossbow using an I284W and dual deployment with redundant >> electronics last weekend at Mansfield. >> >> The comment that you can always tell a newbie because they are flying >> straight stock kits is an interesting one, and was probably meant >> somewhat >> tongue-in-cheek. However, this can be a daunting hobby to first get >> into, >> and the dual opinions (novices do things too simply and novices >> shouldn't >> take on anything too complex) may add somewhat to that. >> >> I don't want to cause any hard feelings. I understand this is a forum >> to >> offer up opinions regarding rocketry. But as a newbie, I worry a little >> that we may alienate people new to the hobby who have questions that >> would >> be appropriate to deal with in this forum but be afraid to ask. >> >> Just my two cents. >> >> Bryan Whitemarsh >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:53 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] North Coast Rocketry BOMARC >> >> Now that's a real rocketeer: Buy a kit, copy most of the parts in better >> materials, strengthen, upgrade, improve, maybe upscale, perhaps >> rearrange >> a >> little, put the original parts back into the bag and head on out to >> launch! >> >> You can always tell a newbie--they're the ones with kits built straight >> stock! :) >> >> Kits aren't really kits. They're suggestions. >> +McG+ >> >> >>> Shortly after they went out of production, I purchased a North Coast >>> Rocketry BOMARC kit from Tammies. The old Estes BOMARC glider rocket >>> had always been a favorite of mine as a kid and I didn't want to miss >>> a chance to make a big one. Unfortunately, it has spent most of its >>> life partially assembled in my attic. Well, I finally got enough time >>> this last couple of weeks to finish it off: >>> Message >>> ? >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3492485456/ >>> ? >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/3491668917/ >>> Most of the parts are still in the box as I made quite a few >>> modifications and upgrades: >>> Replaced the motor tube with something more standard (the original was >>> slightly too small in diameter for reloadable motors) and long enough >>> to mount the RAM jets through the walls of the body tube to the motor >>> tube (they definitely needed more strength than just attaching to the >>> body tube). >>> Used plywood centering rings rather then the plastic. >>> Replaced the vacu-formed plastic conduit that runs the length of the >>> body with one I made out of balsa. >>> Used thin ply to sheet the main wing rather than the vacu-formed >>> platic (I'd read bad things about the large, plastic wing surface >>> warping in warm sunlight - however, I did build the tail surfaces with >>> the vacu-formed sheeting and they turned out well). >>> I'll also be replacing the parachutes anding additional weight as >>> needed. >>> I'm really pleased with how it turned out and it is nice to know that >>> once a kit goes up into the attic, it IS possible that it still might >>> get finished. >>> I'm looking forward to putting it up this spring/summer on a G or H >>> motor for first flight. >>> Cheers! >>> -Glenn Graham >>> At Brothers in 2007 with Scouts: >>> ? http://flickr.com/gp/47328616 at N00/26PPtL >>> At Sheridan in 2008 with Black Brant X: >>> ? >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/47328616 at N00/2879784772/in/set-7215760743 >>> 4554905/ _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue May 5 01:37:45 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 01:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster In-Reply-To: <050520090232.10260.49FFA54B000072A80000281422230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF 0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <050520090232.10260.49FFA54B000072A80000281422230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Marty is right(no surprise there!). Mixed clusters like that have a long history of the BP motors igniting first, lifting the rocket off the pad and pulling out the igniter in the center AP motor. You *really* want to be using electronic ejection with perhaps motor backup, choosing the BP motors to be able to fly the rocket on a minimal flight all by themselves, and paying close attention to igniting all the BP motors. Use extra long leads to the center igniter or even better do it with onboard electronics. Getting both BP and AP motors to reliably ignite simultaneously is very difficult. Takes a lot of practice. +McG+ > Hi All > > I'm starting work on a new project - an Estes 1/100 Saturn V powered by a > five engine cluster. As currently envisioned, it will retain the center > 24mm engine, with four 18mm engines around the outside. I'm thinking it > would be pretty cool to put four C6 motors around the outside to get it > going with a center AP motor - perhaps a long burner such as an F12 or > maybe a real long burning Apogee E6 in the middle mount (I'm thinking a > seven second burn on a Saturn V would be pretty cool ). However, I > worry about getting an AP center motor ignited - as currently envisioned > only the center engine would pop the chutes (the outboard motors would > vent the ejection overboard), so if the AP doesn't ignite it'll be a lawn > dart. I suppose I could change the design so that the outboard ejection > charges could also blow the chute, but that be messy (and limit my engine > choices). I suppose I could use an on-board electronic ejection (set up > to trigger at liftoff), but I'd rather not, and it still wouldn't help if > the igniter failed to light the motor. I've had real good luck using > Quickburst "Twiggy" igniters in my AP motors, but it'll be hard to find a > Twiggy that will fit in a 24mm motor nozzle and Copperheads have always > been crap shoot. > > So, what does every one think? Am I tempting fate to mix AP and black > powered, with the AP motor being critical? Any other suggestions? > > Thanks > > Tim_______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmrandall at gmail.com Tue May 5 08:26:57 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 08:26:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster In-Reply-To: References: <050520090232.10260.49FFA54B000072A80000281422230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905050826m3a6943a2o72927a41e49a5b5@mail.gmail.com> I had an unfortunate experience with mixing propellants at a Mansfield launch with my Little Joe II. I put some Cesaroni's in my small mounts, put Aerotech 75mm motor in the big central mount. Little "I" motors lit, K didn't. A couple of I motors were only able to lift the LJII to about 100' before deployment. Not enough time for the chute to deploy and the lower part of Little Joe II came in under full gravity power. Same exact scenario as Keith mentioned - lead pulled out of the main motor before it lit. So... You could get a nice long lead for the central, or fire it with 'lectronics. A PerfectFlite minitimer is pretty small and seems like it would work well for that scenario. http://68.178.208.82/cgi/PF_Store/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=enter&thispage=miniT3.html&ORDER_ID=!ORDERID! Dave On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 1:37 AM, wrote: > Marty is right(no surprise there!). ?Mixed clusters like that have a long > history of the BP motors igniting first, lifting the rocket off the pad > and pulling out the igniter in the center AP motor. ?You *really* want to > be using electronic ejection with perhaps motor backup, choosing the BP > motors to be able to fly the rocket on a minimal flight all by themselves, > and paying close attention to igniting all the BP motors. ?Use extra long > leads to the center igniter or even better do it with onboard electronics. > > Getting both BP and AP motors to reliably ignite simultaneously is very > difficult. ?Takes a lot of practice. > +McG+ > > >> Hi All >> >> I'm starting work on a new project - an Estes 1/100 Saturn V powered by a >> five engine cluster. ?As currently envisioned, it will retain the center >> 24mm engine, with four 18mm engines around the outside. ?I'm thinking it >> would be pretty cool to put four C6 motors around the outside to get it >> going with a center AP motor - perhaps a long burner such as an F12 or >> maybe a real long burning Apogee E6 in the middle mount (I'm thinking a >> seven second burn on a Saturn V would be pretty cool ). ?However, I >> worry about getting an AP center motor ignited - as currently envisioned >> only the center engine would pop the chutes (the outboard motors would >> vent the ejection overboard), so if the AP doesn't ignite it'll be a lawn >> dart. ?I suppose I could change the design so that the outboard ejection >> charges could also blow the chute, but that be messy (and limit my engine >> choices). ?I suppose I could use an on-board electronic ejection (set up >> to trigger at liftoff), but I'd rather not, and it still wouldn't help if >> the igniter failed to light the motor. ?I've had real good luck using >> Quickburst "Twiggy" igniters in my AP motors, but it'll be hard to find a >> Twiggy that will fit in a 24mm motor nozzle and Copperheads have always >> been crap shoot. >> >> So, what does every one think? ?Am I tempting fate to mix AP and black >> powered, with the AP motor being critical? ?Any other suggestions? >> >> Thanks >> >> Tim_______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Tue May 5 08:29:52 2009 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 08:29:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster In-Reply-To: <050520090232.10260.49FFA54B000072A80000281422230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <050520090232.10260.49FFA54B000072A80000281422230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F536881FFE30A970@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> I had a Estes Fat Boy that was set up for a core 24mm motor and 6 outboard 18mm. I used a F39 in the center and lit the C6 outboard motors with thermolite ignited by the core motor. The rocket boosted off the pad on the F36 and the C6 motors kicked in just after the F39 burned out. Not exactly what you had planned, just another way to achieve a similar goal. It's highly unlikely that you will get simultaneous ignition of a mixture of black powder and composite motors no matter what igniters you use. But there may be another option: Quest to release new D, E and F motors in spring 2009 http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2522/95/ I don't know exactly when they will become available, but it would solve the mixed motor type ignition issues. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:33 PM To: Rocket Lost Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster Hi All I'm starting work on a new project - an Estes 1/100 Saturn V powered by a five engine cluster. As currently envisioned, it will retain the center 24mm engine, with four 18mm engines around the outside. I'm thinking it would be pretty cool to put four C6 motors around the outside to get it going with a center AP motor - perhaps a long burner such as an F12 or maybe a real long burning Apogee E6 in the middle mount (I'm thinking a seven second burn on a Saturn V would be pretty cool ). However, I worry about getting an AP center motor ignited - as currently envisioned only the center engine would pop the chutes (the outboard motors would vent the ejection overboard), so if the AP doesn't ignite it'll be a lawn dart. I suppose I could change the design so that the outboard ejection charges could also blow the chute, but that be messy (and limit my engine choices). I suppose I could use an on-board electronic ejection (set up to trigger at liftoff), but I'd rather not, and it still wouldn't help if the igniter failed to light the motor. I've had real good luck using Quickburst "Twiggy" igniters in my AP motors, but it'll be hard to find a Twiggy that will fit in a 24mm motor nozzle and Copperheads have always been crap shoot. So, what does every one think? Am I tempting fate to mix AP and black powered, with the AP motor being critical? Any other suggestions? Thanks Tim From jjarmitage at earthlink.net Tue May 5 12:27:17 2009 From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:27:17 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster Message-ID: <15107699.1241551637398.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> two things we learned last with Michael's Redemption last October: 1-use a rail. If the AP motor is slow gettin' goin' the rod may bow over if the C's can't get it clear in stable flight. 2-Use a hot igniter for the AP, don't rely on the standard, but the head may not fit a 24mm motor... John -----Original Message----- >From: Larry Colvin >Sent: May 4, 2009 10:12 PM >To: Rocket Lost , t.j.doll at att.net >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > >Tim, >? >I built one of the Estes Saturn V 1/100 scale rockets with a 29mm motor mount.? I've flown it with F20s, and a G35 econojet, with good results.? See if you can upgrade to a 29mm motor tube and custom centering rings to match.? Then you can use a bigger igniter too. >? >Larry >--- On >Mon, 5/4/09, t.j.doll at att.net > >wrote: >From: t.j.doll at att.net >Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster >To: "Rocket Lost" >Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 7:32 PM >Hi All >? >I'm starting work on a new project - an Estes 1/100 Saturn V powered by a five engine cluster.? As currently envisioned, it will retain the center 24mm engine, with four 18mm engines around the outside.? I'm thinking it would be pretty cool to put four C6 motors around the outside to get it going with a center AP motor - perhaps a long burner such as an F12 or? maybe a real long burning Apogee E6 in the middle mount (I'm thinking a seven second burn on a Saturn V?would be pretty cool ).? However, I worry about getting an AP center motor ignited - as currently envisioned only the center engine would pop the chutes (the outboard motors would vent the ejection overboard), so if the AP doesn't ignite it'll be a lawn dart.? I suppose I could change the design so that the outboard ejection charges could also blow the chute, but that be messy (and limit my engine choices).? I suppose I could use an on-board electronic ejection (set up to trigger at liftoff), but I'd rather not, and it still wouldn't help if the igniter failed to light the motor.? I've had real good luck using Quickburst "Twiggy" igniters?in my AP motors, but it'll be hard to find a Twiggy that will fit in a 24mm motor nozzle and Copperheads have always been crap shoot. >? >So, what does every one think?? Am I tempting fate to mix AP and black powered, with the AP motor being critical?? Any other suggestions? >? >Thanks >? >Tim >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >? From jhadv at pacifier.com Tue May 5 12:33:57 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 12:33:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090505122017.00bcf4f8@mail.iinet.com> Another way to solve the problem is a faster central ignition device. For example a relatively instantaneous pre-pressurizing igniter in the main motor would have done it. Problem is there are no good pre-pressurizing igniters commercially available for our size motors. There are some people that make them here and there but with the shipping restrictions and explosive classification they would cost about $10.00 each on the pre-pressured variety, only be available to LEUP holders and would have to come in several sizes to accommodate the various motor combinations. Given all that I doubt whether there is much of a market for the devices. From greg at blastzone.com Tue May 5 13:35:10 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 13:35:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090505122017.00bcf4f8@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090505122017.00bcf4f8@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <083d01c9cdc0$fcb05800$f6110800$@com> T H E R M I T E > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:34 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > Another way to solve the problem is a faster central ignition device. For > example a relatively instantaneous pre-pressurizing igniter in the main > motor would have done it. Problem is there are no good pre-pressurizing > igniters commercially available for our size motors. There are some people > that make them here and there but with the shipping restrictions and > explosive classification they would cost about $10.00 each on the > pre-pressured variety, only be available to LEUP holders and would have to > come in several sizes to accommodate the various motor combinations. Given > all that I doubt whether there is much of a market for the devices. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Tue May 5 14:12:36 2009 From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 17:12:36 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster Message-ID: Dave, That's bad news for you on the crash but it definitely could have been worse. Like the cental motor coming up to pressure later. Definite safety concern. Original poster: Use a hot igniter. Twiggys are good and should fit the 24mm C slot. I think that is what I used when I had some Quickbursts. If necessary build the igniter into the motor. As long as the wires will fit out the nozzle you should be fine. I believe this is allowed under the safety code. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Lou ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115& bcd=May5509AvgfooterNO115) -------------- next part -------------- Dave, That's bad news for you on the crash but it definitely could have been worse.? Like the cental motor coming up to pressure later.? Definite safety concern.? Original poster:? Use a hot igniter.? Twiggys are good and should fit the 24mm C slot.? I think that is what I used when I had some Quickbursts.? If necessary build the igniter into the motor.? As long as the wires will fit out the nozzle you should be fine.? I believe this is allowed under the safety code.? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Lou ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd=May5509AvgfooterNO115) From sb at berfield.com Tue May 5 15:13:35 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 22:13:35 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster Message-ID: Hmm--- I think the goal is ignition, not detonation :) ANyone know hte diameter of hte opening an igniter would need to fit through for a 24mm motor? I am sure I could whip up something slightly less potent than thermite that would light it fast. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 01:35 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster T H E R M I T E> -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On> Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:34 PM> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster> > Another way to solve the problem is a faster central ignition device. For> example a relatively instantaneous pre-pressurizing igniter in the main> motor would have done it. Problem is there are no good pre-pressurizing> igniters commercially available for our size motors. There are somepeople> that make them here and there but with the shipping restrictions and> explosive classification they would cost about $10.00 each on the> pre-pressured variety, only be available to LEUP holders and would have to> come in several sizes to accommodate the various motor combinations.Given> all that I doubt whether there is much of a market for the devices.> > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Hmm--- I think the goal is ignition, not detonation :) ANyone know hte diameter of hte opening an igniter would need to fit through for a 24mm motor? I am sure I could whip up something slightly less potent than thermite that would light it fast. ? -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 01:35 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster T H E R M I T E > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:34 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > Another way to solve the problem is a faster central ignition device. For > example a relatively instantaneous pre-pressurizing igniter in the main > motor would have done it. Problem is there are no good pre-pressurizing > igniters commercially available for our size motors. There are some people > that make them here and there but with the shipping restrictions and > explosive classification they would cost about $10.00 each on the > pre-pressured variety, only be available to LEUP holders and would have to > come in several sizes to accommodate the various motor combinations. Given > all that I doubt whether there is much of a market for the devices. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Tue May 5 16:54:25 2009 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 16:54:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: T.J., I have made small igniters that will fit 24mm motors. I know Bryon Shopp has also made some. Bob Y borrows mine ALL THE TIME :) They use Magnalite pyrogen. We'll hook ya up. Still, it's kinda a crap shoot. Your call. Mark > From: sb at berfield.com > To: greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:13:35 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > Hmm--- I think the goal is ignition, not detonation :) > > ANyone know hte diameter of hte opening an igniter would need to fit through for a 24mm motor? I am sure I could whip up something slightly less potent than thermite that would light it fast. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 01:35 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > T H E R M I T E> -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On> Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:34 PM> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster> > Another way to solve the problem is a faster central ignition device. For> example a relatively instantaneous pre-pressurizing igniter in the main> motor would have done it. Problem is there are no good pre-pressurizing> igniters commercially available for our size motors. There are somepeople> that make them here and there but with the shipping restrictions and> explosive classification they would cost about $10.00 each on the> pre-pressured variety, only be available to LEUP holders and would have to> come in several sizes to accommodate the various motor combinations.Given> all that I doubt whether there is much of a market for the devices.> > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 -------------- next part -------------- T.J., I have made small igniters that will fit 24mm motors. I know Bryon?Shopp has also made some. Bob Y borrows mine ALL THE TIME :) They use Magnalite pyrogen. We'll hook ya up. Still, it's kinda a crap shoot. Your call. Mark ? > From: sb at berfield.com > To: greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:13:35 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > Hmm--- I think the goal is ignition, not detonation :) > > ANyone know hte diameter of hte opening an igniter would need to fit through for a 24mm motor? I am sure I could whip up something slightly less potent than thermite that would light it fast. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 01:35 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > T H E R M I T E> -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On> Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:34 PM> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster> > Another way to solve the problem is a faster central ignition device. For> example a relatively instantaneous pre-pressurizing igniter in the main> motor would have done it. Problem is there are no good pre-pressurizing> igniters commercially available for our size motors. There are somepeople> that make them here and there but with the shipping restrictions and> explosive classification they would cost about $10.00 each on the> pre-pressured variety, only be available to LEUP holders and would have to> come in several sizes to accommodate the various motor combinations.Given> all that I doubt whether there is much of a market for the devices.> > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 Check it out. From greg at blastzone.com Tue May 5 18:21:58 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 18:21:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <092801c9cde9$0d67a4a0$2836ede0$@com> Magnalite pyrogen is the stuff. The guuuuud stuuuuuff. I use it pretty much exclusively, except when I'm 'detonating' motors with thermite.. :P From: Mark Lyons [mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 4:54 PM To: sb at berfield.com; greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster T.J., I have made small igniters that will fit 24mm motors. I know Bryon Shopp has also made some. Bob Y borrows mine ALL THE TIME :) They use Magnalite pyrogen. We'll hook ya up. Still, it's kinda a crap shoot. Your call. Mark > From: sb at berfield.com > To: greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:13:35 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > Hmm--- I think the goal is ignition, not detonation :) > > ANyone know hte diameter of hte opening an igniter would need to fit through for a 24mm motor? I am sure I could whip up something slightly less potent than thermite that would light it fast. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 01:35 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > T H E R M I T E> -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On> Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:34 PM> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster> > Another way to solve the problem is a faster central ignition device. For> example a relatively instantaneous pre-pressurizing igniter in the main> motor would have done it. Problem is there are no good pre-pressurizing> igniters commercially available for our size motors. There are somepeople> that make them here and there but with the shipping restrictions and> explosive classification they would cost about $10.00 each on the> pre-pressured variety, only be available to LEUP holders and would have to> come in several sizes to accommodate the various motor combinations.Given> all that I doubt whether there is much of a market for the devices.> > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _____ HotmailR has a new way to see what's up with your friends. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- Magnalite pyrogen is the stuff. The guuuuud stuuuuuff. I use it pretty much exclusively, except when I???m ???detonating??? motors with thermite???. :P ? From: Mark Lyons [mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 4:54 PM To: sb at berfield.com; greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster ? T.J., I have made small igniters that will fit 24mm motors. I know Bryon?Shopp has also made some. Bob Y borrows mine ALL THE TIME :) They use Magnalite pyrogen. We'll hook ya up. Still, it's kinda a crap shoot. Your call. Mark ? > From: sb at berfield.com > To: greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:13:35 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > Hmm--- I think the goal is ignition, not detonation :) > > ANyone know hte diameter of hte opening an igniter would need to fit through for a 24mm motor? I am sure I could whip up something slightly less potent than thermite that would light it fast. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 01:35 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster > > T H E R M I T E> -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On> Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 12:34 PM> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster> > Another way to solve the problem is a faster central ignition device. For> example a relatively instantaneous pre-pressurizing igniter in the main> motor would have done it. Problem is there are no good pre-pressurizing> igniters commercially available for our size motors. There are somepeople> that make them here and there but with the shipping restrictions and> explosive classification they would cost about $10.00 each on the> pre-pressured variety, only be available to LEUP holders and would have to> come in several sizes to accommodate the various motor combinations.Given> all that I doubt whether there is much of a market for the devices.> > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 Check it out. From jhadv at pacifier.com Tue May 5 21:35:03 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 21:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Black Powder and Composit Ignition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11778.67.189.35.224.1241584503.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> "Someone correct me if I'm wrong." You are not wrong it is just a very subtle difference. "THERMITE" as one poster put it as well as most other pyrotechnic igniters operate on the principal that they light a grain(s) of fuel (thermite being low gas with excellent localized heat transfer properties) and the burning of the grain(s) of fuel pressurizes and lights the rest of the motor surface. This type of igniter is therefore susceptible to being pulled out the back of the motor before it can transfer enough heat to light the remaining grain(s) surfaces. What I am talking about is an igniter that lights all propellant surfaces roughly simultaneously bringing a motor from zero to full pressure in much less that 100 ms. Custom builds should get down below 30 ms. Military rounds are below 10 ms but that requires a burst diaphragm (nozzle condom). It can be done but the construction is relatively expensive for small motors like we normally launch. From greg at blastzone.com Tue May 5 22:55:49 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:55:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Black Powder and Composit Ignition In-Reply-To: <11778.67.189.35.224.1241584503.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> References: <11778.67.189.35.224.1241584503.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <09be01c9ce0f$4f032fd0$ed098f70$@com> I'm thinking you've not worked with or seen thermite igniters in use. They are as instant on as you can get. No delay. Push button and rocket is gone. Don't be confused by what you may know about conventional iron/al thermite. This is not a slow burning slag producing hard to light sort of thermite. For motor ignition you use CuO/AL or CuO/Mg mixtures, and it's a fast burning material. The CuO doubles as not only the oxide side of the thermite, but also contributes to motor ignition due to its burn rate catalyst properties. It burns extremely fast and generates huge amounts of heat. Thermite igniters are the fastest way to light HPR motors. Period. Ever. No contest. Remember the 1/10 scale Saturn V that was flown last week on a central P and cluster of N's. Watch the video and notice how all motors lit on the pad, instantly. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of jhadv at pacifier.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:35 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Black Powder and Composit Ignition > > "Someone correct me if I'm wrong." > > You are not wrong it is just a very subtle difference. "THERMITE" as one > poster put it as well as most other pyrotechnic igniters operate on the > principal that they light a grain(s) of fuel (thermite being low gas with > excellent localized heat transfer properties) and the burning of the > grain(s) of fuel pressurizes and lights the rest of the motor surface. > This type of igniter is therefore susceptible to being pulled out the back > of the motor before it can transfer enough heat to light the remaining > grain(s) surfaces. What I am talking about is an igniter that lights all > propellant surfaces roughly simultaneously bringing a motor from zero to > full pressure in much less that 100 ms. Custom builds should get down > below 30 ms. Military rounds are below 10 ms but that requires a burst > diaphragm (nozzle condom). It can be done but the construction is > relatively expensive for small motors like we normally launch. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu May 7 21:38:05 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 21:38:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] EX-Research...EX-Research...Friday @ Spring Thunder Launch May 15th - 17th Message-ID: <2769E9682F4F461696EB66818485B658@LaptopKrausert> EX-Research...EX-Research...EX-Research...EX-Research... Need a show of names planning to fly Friday May 15th. Are you planning to fly EX? Let me know, so I can advise Randy. Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- EX-Research...EX-Research...EX-Research...EX-Research... Need a show of names planning to fly Friday May 15th. Are you planning to fly EX? Let me know, so I can advise Randy. Cheers, Robert From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Thu May 7 23:30:16 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 23:30:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 T-shirts and hats Message-ID: <008501c9cfa6$7441a630$5cc4f290$@net> Hi everyone. I wanted to remind those of you coming to FITS that tomorrow is the deadline to order T-shirts and hats. To order, send myself or Denny Smith an email with the quantity, type, and size. Soon you soon! Hats: $16 Short sleeve shirts: $18 Long sleeve shirts: $21 Mike Wyvel and Denny Smith FITS 2009 Launch Directors -------------- next part -------------- Hi everyone.? I wanted to remind those of you coming to FITS that tomorrow is the deadline to order T-shirts and hats.? To order, send myself or Denny Smith an email with the quantity, type, and size.? Soon you soon! ? Hats: $16 Short sleeve shirts: $18 Long sleeve shirts: $21 ? Mike Wyvel and Denny Smith FITS 2009 Launch Directors From t.j.doll at att.net Sat May 9 21:19:36 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 04:19:36 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mixed Black Powder and AP Cluster Message-ID: <051020090419.15650.4A0655D80000EBA500003D2222230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Hi All Thanks for all the feedback - it's helped me refine the design (before construction starts). Regarding a 29mm mount - I've already done that with the Estes Saturn V - see: http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/mod_est_saturn_v.shtml (version 2.0 will be at FITS, if things are going well I plan to stick a G64 or G71 in it...) I have some custom made centering rings for the five engine cluster that I picked up on ebay (a center 24mm, surrounded by four 18mm). My initial thought was, I have a 29mm Saturn V, so why do that again. But after consideration, it shouldn't be that hard to modify the centering rings to a 29mm center, and that opens up the engine possibilities since I can always put a 24mm engine in a 29mm mount with the appropriate adapter. Electronic ejection - after further consideration I think I'll incorporate that - I can put that in the S-IV-B stage (which should help with cg), although I have some questions and concerns. The electronics appear to be straight forward, but what about the black powder charges - where and how do I get those - does that get me into LEUP again? This is going to be relatively heavy (with some serious nose ballast to counter five motors it'll be well over a pound), the suggested electronics require 160 ft. to arm - that could be iffy if the center motor doesn't light (and really iffy if one or more of the 18mm black powder motors doesn't light). Any suggestions to help? Regarding just igniting the center AP motor on the pad and using a G-switch for the black powder: Interesting, but with some of the long burn motors I'm considering, getting 2G off the pad could be questionable, plus what's the 'reaction time' of the electronics? With those long burn AP motors it'll need those black powder motors to be stable off the pad. Using a rail - I'm pretty happy with an internal 1/4" launch lug setup that I've used on previous Saturn V's - and with a 1/4 rod means I can launch it almost anywhere (heck, I've got a 6' 1/4 rod launch pad if I need it, rails need a 'big launch'). After thinking about it, I've punted on using the black power motors as a backup ejection charge - it's just not practical. With some of the long burn motors I'd like to use for the center AP motor, even a C6-7 would fire the ejection charge while the AP motor was still burning, yet to be reasonably sure of a safe recover if the center motor didn't ignite would need a C6-3. Electronics seems like a safer bet. For igniters - if I'm using an RMS for the AP, I'm confident I can fit a Twiggy in during assembly. The problem is with single use motors - I doubt I can find a Twiggy that'll fit in anything smaller than an F (and I'm not sure about the F). Is Magnalite what they use in Twiggy's? I've got a simple method to keep the AP igniter with the motor, so even if the motor is slow to light, so long as the igniter will light the motor it should OK even it it pulls away from the clips..... (so yes Mark, I may well be interested in some of your igniters if they'll fit a long burn E or F).... Thanks again. Looking forward to meeting everyone at FITS. Tim -------------- next part -------------- Hi All ? Thanks for all the feedback - it's helped me refine the design (before construction starts).? ? Regarding a 29mm mount - I've already done that with the Estes Saturn V - see: http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/mod_est_saturn_v.shtml http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/all/mod_est_saturn_v.shtml (version 2.0 will be at FITS, if things are going well I plan to stick a G64 or G71 in it...) I have some custom made centering rings for the five engine cluster that I picked up on ebay (a center 24mm, surrounded by four 18mm).? My initial thought was, I have a 29mm Saturn V, so why do that again.? But after consideration, it shouldn't be that hard to modify the centering rings to a 29mm center, and that opens up the engine possibilities since I can always put a 24mm engine in a 29mm mount with the appropriate adapter. ? Electronic ejection - after further consideration I think I'll incorporate that - I can put that in the S-IV-B stage (which should help with cg), although I have some questions and concerns.? The electronics appear to be straight forward, but what about the black powder charges - where and how do I get those - does that get me into LEUP again?? This is going to be relatively heavy (with some serious nose ballast to counter five motors it'll be well over a pound), the suggested electronics require 160 ft. to arm?- that could be iffy if the center motor doesn't light (and really iffy if one or more of the 18mm black powder motors doesn't light).? Any suggestions to help? ? Regarding just igniting the center AP motor on the pad and?using a G-switch for the black powder: Interesting, but with some of the long burn motors I'm considering, getting 2G off the pad could be questionable, plus what's the 'reaction time' of the electronics???With those long burn AP motors it'll need those black powder motors to be stable off the pad. ? Using a rail - I'm pretty happy with an internal 1/4" launch lug setup that I've used on previous Saturn V's?- and with a 1/4 rod means I can launch it almost anywhere (heck, I've got a 6' 1/4 rod launch pad if I need it, rails need a 'big launch'). ? After thinking about it, I've punted on using the black power motors as a backup ejection charge - it's just not practical.? With some of the long burn motors I'd like to use for the center AP motor, even a C6-7 would fire the ejection charge while the AP motor was still burning, yet to be reasonably sure of a safe recover if the center motor didn't ignite would need a C6-3.? Electronics seems like a safer bet. ? For igniters - if I'm using an RMS for the AP, I'm confident I can fit a Twiggy in during assembly.? The problem is with single use motors - I doubt I can find a Twiggy that'll fit in anything smaller than an F (and I'm not sure about the F).? Is Magnalite what they use in Twiggy's?? I've got?a simple method to keep the AP igniter with the motor, so even if the motor is slow to light, so long as the igniter will light the motor it should OK even it it pulls away from the clips.....? (so yes Mark, I may well be interested in some of your igniters if they'll fit a long burn E or F).... ? Thanks again.? ? Looking forward to meeting everyone at FITS. ? Tim ? ? From fred at azinger.com Sun May 10 09:33:57 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 09:33:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Cheap 20qt Hobart on CL... Message-ID: <002101c9d18d$1de5c080$59b14180$@com> Says it needs work....might be something simple....but for $150 it is worth a look if you need a mixer.... http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/bfs/1162784127.html -------------- next part -------------- Says it needs work....might be something simple....but for $150 it is worth a look if you need a mixer.... ? http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/bfs/1162784127.html http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/bfs/1162784127.html From appusher at q.com Sun May 10 09:53:12 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:53:12 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] launch rails Message-ID: Hi fliers, Dave and I are going to be ordering a few 1515 launch rails soon. If anyone wants to piggy back our order we are offering 5 or 10% over our cost for club members. We should be getting few 1010 rails as well. I have yet to get a quote , but expect it to be reasonable. Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- Hi fliers, ? Dave and I are going to be ordering a few 1515 launch rails soon. If anyone wants to piggy back our order we are offering 5 or 10% over our cost for club members. We should be getting few 1010 rails as well. ? I have yet to get a quote , but expect it to be reasonable. mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From rocketsrfun at msn.com Sun May 10 11:04:35 2009 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris ) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:04:35 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mother's Day Message-ID: Happy Mother's Day to all !!! Don Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun May 10 15:47:31 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 15:47:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [ot] Semi new trailer person with question Message-ID: <8EA4ACCAA8EA451A8B72031FF7E1A597@LaptopKrausert> OK, I've been driving for years. But it was last year that I started hauling a trailer. I'm the owner of a typical looking landscape trailer and works great for hauling my stuff to and from launches. The ball hitch on the truck became rusty over the winter. Most of the ball is rusty. Except some areas on top. My question to trailer folks; is that ok? It's certainly not rusty through. But will rust cause issues with the trailer and hauling? Is greasing a ball hitch a good idea or very bad idea? Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- OK, I've been driving for years. But it was last year that I started hauling a trailer. I'm the owner of a typical looking landscape trailer and works great for hauling my stuff to and from launches.? ? The ball hitch on the truck became rusty over the winter. Most of the ball is rusty. Except some areas on top. My question to?trailer folks; is that ok? It's certainly not rusty through. But will rust cause issues with the trailer and hauling? Is greasing a ball hitch a good idea or very bad idea? ? Cheers, Robert From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Sun May 10 15:51:48 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 15:51:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ride to FITS from Bellingham or north of Seattle In-Reply-To: <092801c9cde9$0d67a4a0$2836ede0$@com> References: <092801c9cde9$0d67a4a0$2836ede0$@com> Message-ID: <008501c9d1c1$e77ef400$b67cdc00$@net> Is there anyone who would be willing to give my son Matt a ride to and from FITS? He is at WWU in Bellingham and would like to join us as he has done in the past when he was in HS. He finishes classes about 1 pm and can arrange to various public transport southward to meet a ride. Thanks - Marty From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun May 10 15:52:35 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:52:35 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] [ot] Semi new trailer person with question Message-ID: You are supposed to grease it. It keeps it from wearing down the ball and hitch, and if you keep the grease on it, and use a rubber cover over it, it keeps it from rusting. I wouldn't worry about the surface rust, just put some grease on it before hitching up. Mike F. In a message dated 5/10/2009 3:48:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: Is greasing a ball hitch a good idea or very bad idea? **************Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002) -------------- next part -------------- You are supposed to grease it.? It keeps it from wearing down the ball and hitch, and if you keep the grease on it, and use a rubber cover over it, it keeps it from rusting.? I wouldn't worry about the surface rust, just put some grease on it before hitching up. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/10/2009 3:48:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: Is greasing a ball hitch a good idea or very bad idea? Recession-proof vacation ideas. http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002 Find free things to do in the U.S. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun May 10 16:01:25 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:01:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [ot] Semi new trailer person with question References: Message-ID: <9DBD9A2E8333458190D2CC40F65F45E8@LaptopKrausert> Thank you. So, grease is ok. I wasn't sure if that was a big no, no. Mike thank you. I'll grease it and head to Brothers. Assuming axle grease is good. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [ot] Semi new trailer person with question You are supposed to grease it. It keeps it from wearing down the ball and hitch, and if you keep the grease on it, and use a rubber cover over it, it keeps it from rusting. I wouldn't worry about the surface rust, just put some grease on it before hitching up. Mike F. In a message dated 5/10/2009 3:48:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: Is greasing a ball hitch a good idea or very bad idea? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. -------------- next part -------------- Thank you. So, grease is ok. I wasn't sure if that was a big no, no. Mike thank you. I'll grease it and head to Brothers. Assuming axle grease is good. ? Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com Mfreptiles at aol.com To: mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com lawndart.robert at gmail.com ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [ot] Semi new trailer person with question You are supposed to grease it.? It keeps it from wearing down the ball and hitch, and if you keep the grease on it, and use a rubber cover over it, it keeps it from rusting.? I wouldn't worry about the surface rust, just put some grease on it before hitching up. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/10/2009 3:48:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com lawndart.robert at gmail.com writes: Is greasing a ball hitch a good idea or very bad idea? Recession-proof vacation ideas. http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002 Find free things to do in the U.S. From blakbird11 at comcast.net Sun May 10 16:24:10 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:24:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ride to FITS from Bellingham or north of Seattle In-Reply-To: <008501c9d1c1$e77ef400$b67cdc00$@net> References: <092801c9cde9$0d67a4a0$2836ede0$@com> <008501c9d1c1$e77ef400$b67cdc00$@net> Message-ID: <5BAB073E-8E7D-42BE-82A6-1ACDEEEBD947@comcast.net> I've got room for a person or two and am leaving from the Everett area Friday afternoon. I could probably be persuaded to take Hwy 20 across which means I could get as far north as Burlington to meet him. Eric Albrecht On May 10, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Marty2 wrote: > Is there anyone who would be willing to give my son Matt a ride to > and from > FITS? He is at WWU in Bellingham and would like to join us as he > has done > in the past when he was in HS. He finishes classes about 1 pm and can > arrange to various public transport southward to meet a ride. > > Thanks - Marty > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From blakbird11 at comcast.net Sun May 10 17:39:19 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 17:39:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ride to FITS from Everett In-Reply-To: References: <092801c9cde9$0d67a4a0$2836ede0$@com> <008501c9d1c1$e77ef400$b67cdc00$@net> <5BAB073E-8E7D-42BE-82A6-1ACDEEEBD947@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4016455E-3E47-4D36-ACF0-1604C796A171@comcast.net> > Sounds like I've got at least one rider. If anyone else in interested in carpooling along, drop me a line. Leaving from north end Friday afternoon. There will be rocket talk and loud heavy metal. Anyone with a second X chromosome will get special treatment. Eric Albrecht > > From: blakbird11 at comcast.net > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:24:10 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ride to FITS from Bellingham or north of > Seattle > > > > I've got room for a person or two and am leaving from the Everett > area > > Friday afternoon. I could probably be persuaded to take Hwy 20 > across > > which means I could get as far north as Burlington to meet him. > > > > Eric Albrecht > > > > > > On May 10, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Marty2 wrote: > > > > > Is there anyone who would be willing to give my son Matt a ride to > > > and from > > > FITS? He is at WWU in Bellingham and would like to join us as he > > > has done > > > in the past when he was in HS. He finishes classes about 1 pm > and can > > > arrange to various public transport southward to meet a ride. > > > > > > Thanks - Marty > > > -------------- next part -------------- Sounds like I've got at least one rider. ?If anyone else in?interested?in carpooling along, drop me a line. ?Leaving from north end Friday afternoon. ?There will be rocket talk and loud heavy metal. ?Anyone with a second X chromosome will get special treatment. Eric Albrecht > From: ? mailto:blakbird11 at comcast.net blakbird11 at comcast.net > To: ? mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:24:10 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ride to FITS from Bellingham or north of Seattle > ? > I've got room for a person or two and am leaving from the Everett area ? > Friday afternoon. I could probably be persuaded to take Hwy 20 across ? > which means I could get as far north as Burlington to meet him. > ? > Eric Albrecht > ? > ? > On May 10, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Marty2 wrote: > ? > > Is there anyone who would be willing to give my son Matt a ride to ? > > and from > > FITS? He is at WWU in Bellingham and would like to join us as he ? > > has done > > in the past when he was in HS. He finishes classes about 1 pm and can > > arrange to various public transport southward to meet a ride. > > > > Thanks - Marty > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 11 17:28:55 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:28:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] WE ARE GO!!! Brothers Public Launch May 15-17 Spring Thunder Message-ID: Weather outlook is typical for May, partly cloudy. Temperatures during the day in the upper 60's and low 70's. Winds 5 to 13 during the day. EX Friday for TRA members; TRA L2 or higher flying EX and TRA flying commercial. No non-TRA members and youth under 18 in prep and beyond flight line. Commercial Staurday and Sunday. Fly, fly, fly. Our RSO requests that you know the safety code and rules. If you are bringing kids, please share with them the rules and safety code. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm Fliers meeting at 8ish AM on Saturday morning. If you can, bring some firewood. We have three pits. (Please do not make any new ones, landowners allow only these three). One in the middle becomes a community fire Friday and Saturday nights. Great time to kick back and talk shop with fellow fliers. Anyone wishing to bring ISS and Hubble fly-over schedules, bring it. At Brothers it is very cool at night how bright ISS is going overhead. Not sure if we'll see Hubble while the shuttle is linked with it. Maybe not. Hope to see you all out on the sage. Let the OROC season begin. Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- Weather outlook is typical for May, partly cloudy. Temperatures during the day in the upper 60's and low 70's. Winds 5 to 13 during the day. ? EX Friday for TRA members; TRA L2 or higher flying EX and TRA flying commercial. No non-TRA members and youth under 18 in prep and beyond flight line. ? Commercial Staurday and Sunday. Fly, fly, fly. ? Our RSO requests that you know the safety code and rules. If you are bringing kids, please share with them the rules and safety code. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm ? Fliers meeting at 8ish AM on Saturday morning. ? If you can, bring some firewood. We have three pits. (Please do not make any new ones, landowners allow only these three). One in the middle becomes a community fire Friday and Saturday nights. Great time to kick back and talk shop with fellow fliers.? ? Anyone wishing to bring ISS and Hubble fly-over schedules,?bring it. At Brothers it is very cool at night how?bright ISS is going overhead. Not sure if we'll see Hubble while the shuttle is linked with it. Maybe not. ? ? Hope to see you all out on the sage. Let the OROC season begin. ? Cheers, Robert From greg at bigredbee.com Mon May 11 17:54:02 2009 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:54:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] WE ARE GO!!! Brothers Public Launch May 15-17 Spring Thunder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wahoo! If the weather cooperates (looks good at this point), I'll be flying my 75mm min diam rocket on an L850. -- Greg On 5/11/09, Robert Krausert wrote: > > > Weather outlook is typical for May, partly cloudy. Temperatures during the > day in the upper 60's and low 70's. Winds 5 to 13 during the day. > > EX Friday for TRA members; TRA L2 or higher flying EX and TRA flying > commercial. No non-TRA members and youth under 18 in prep and beyond flight > line. > > Commercial Staurday and Sunday. Fly, fly, fly. > > Our RSO requests that you know the safety code and rules. If you are > bringing kids, please share with them the rules and safety code. > http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm > > Fliers meeting at 8ish AM on Saturday morning. > > If you can, bring some firewood. We have three pits. (Please do not make any > new ones, landowners allow only these three). One in the middle becomes a > community fire Friday and Saturday nights. Great time to kick back and talk > shop with fellow fliers. > > Anyone wishing to bring ISS and Hubble fly-over schedules, bring it. At > Brothers it is very cool at night how bright ISS is going overhead. Not sure > if we'll see Hubble while the shuttle is linked with it. Maybe not. > > Hope to see you all out on the sage. Let the OROC season begin. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 11 18:05:35 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:05:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] WE ARE GO!!! Brothers Public Launch May 15-17 Spring Thunder References: Message-ID: <9D3FEB09E5D44ECBA95888C748FFA58A@LaptopKrausert> Excellent. L850 should be a nice flight. That's a 6 second burn? Look forward to that one. I've got Ariel rebuilt w/ 54mm and planning to try some K250's this weekend. Yes, white lightning. I'm predictable. Beeline planned as well. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Clark" To: "Robert Krausert" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [OROC Members] WE ARE GO!!! Brothers Public Launch May 15-17 Spring Thunder > Wahoo! > > If the weather cooperates (looks good at this point), I'll be flying > my 75mm min diam rocket on an L850. > > -- Greg > > On 5/11/09, Robert Krausert wrote: >> >> >> Weather outlook is typical for May, partly cloudy. Temperatures during >> the >> day in the upper 60's and low 70's. Winds 5 to 13 during the day. >> >> EX Friday for TRA members; TRA L2 or higher flying EX and TRA flying >> commercial. No non-TRA members and youth under 18 in prep and beyond >> flight >> line. >> >> Commercial Staurday and Sunday. Fly, fly, fly. >> >> Our RSO requests that you know the safety code and rules. If you are >> bringing kids, please share with them the rules and safety code. >> http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm >> >> Fliers meeting at 8ish AM on Saturday morning. >> >> If you can, bring some firewood. We have three pits. (Please do not make >> any >> new ones, landowners allow only these three). One in the middle becomes a >> community fire Friday and Saturday nights. Great time to kick back and >> talk >> shop with fellow fliers. >> >> Anyone wishing to bring ISS and Hubble fly-over schedules, bring it. At >> Brothers it is very cool at night how bright ISS is going overhead. Not >> sure >> if we'll see Hubble while the shuttle is linked with it. Maybe not. >> >> Hope to see you all out on the sage. Let the OROC season begin. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Members mailing list >> Members at oregonrocketry.org >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members >> >> From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Tue May 12 06:24:25 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 06:24:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC News References: Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9AF9@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> With the weekend of TARC approaching, the Seattle Times finally got their big article on my students ready for publication and it ran this morning. The link is below. Enjoy! http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009208938_rocketkids12m.html BTW, for those of you who pay close attention, you'll notice that the video footage is actually of last year's qualifying flight (the giveaway is two eggs instead of one). Still, all of the kids in the video are back on this year's team, so I didn't feel too bad about using old footage--although I was a little embarrassed to realize that we didn't shoot any video at all this year... Peter Schurke Teacher and Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School Seattle, WA From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Tue May 12 08:56:22 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:56:22 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ingraham Career Fair -- "Rocket Scientist" needed Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA7C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Hi all, Ingraham High School (Seattle) is putting on a career fair on May 28th. Given the success of our Aerospace program, the organizers of the fair have asked me to try and recruit a "real live rocket scientist" to be part of their panels in the morning. If anyone out there: A) works in the aerospace industry, B) lives a reasonable driving distance from IHS in North Seattle (it's too much to ask to have folks driving from Oregon or Spokane...), and C) would be willing to actually take a day off and volunteer to speak to teenagers... Then please relay the answers to the four questions in blue at the end of this thread and I will pass you on to the organizers. Thanks all! Peter Schurke Teacher and Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School Seattle, WA ________________________________ From: Shawn Hosford [mailto:shawnhosford at comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:15 AM To: Schurke, Peter Subject: Ingraham Career Fair Below you will find the information about the career fair. We have two great key note speakers (see below!) and 100 panelist, but no one from the "rocket science" area. If you know of someone who would like to come and help inspire the kids please have the answer the blue highlighted questions below or call me asap. Take Care, Shawn Good Morning Peter, As you can, I am passionate about this career fair. The reason that I am involved is that I care deeply about students and helping them to see big pictures. A vice principal at Ingraham High School asked if I could help her put together a career fair for their students to attend at the end of the school year. Well... when I commit to something, I go big or I go home! I do it with not only my two feet, but I also start getting the feet of everyone around me moving that I can! So, the gathering has begun. Folks are coming forward to help, and it's becoming an incredible event. So far, Luke Burbank (from NPR) is going to start off our morning speaking to the entire student body. Then, the 9th graders are going to participate in an interactive learning event with a great organization called Choices. The 10th, 11th and 12th graders will be listening to (their choice) of panelists who will be speaking about their professions. There will be 25 different panels (with 4 people on each panel) from which to choose. Our students will have the opportunity to attend two different sessions during the period of an hour and a half. To finish off the morning, the students will again gather together to hear Kevin Carroll, a national renowned author and motivational speaker. And, here's where I need your help... or feet... or actually your time - I would love it if you could be one of the panelist. The information is included below. The dropout rate for Seattle Public Schools is 32%, Ingraham is only 19% - these are the numbers that inspired me to help. The diversity numbers at Ingraham are great, they look like this: Black 23% Asian 31% White 33% Hispanic 11% American Indian 2% Special Education Kids 14% Free & Reduced Lunch 47% Drop-out rate 19% With the exception of the free and reduced cost lunch ( too many folks trying to make ends meet!) and the dropout rate, I love the schools numbers. Thanks for always being super-supportive, that's why I can accomplish what I do when I "borrow" your feet and the feet on many others. Take Care, Shawn Good Afternoon, Thank you for signing up to help with Ingraham Career fair. I want to let you know how the process is going to work. First of all, I need you to answer the questions below asap: 1) What is your career/job? 2) How much education did your job require? 3) What hours are required, how many per week and what time of day or night? 4) What is the average salary range for someone in your position? Then I need your name, address, phone number and email address. Here is what you can expect our morning (on May 28th) to entail. Luke Burbank will be speaking from 8-9. Then we have two sections of speaker panels from 9:10-10:40 (the first from 9:10-9:50, the second 10:00-10:40). We will need you to do both sections, so we can allow for maximum coverage with our students. All of the freshman will be participating in a program called Choices during this period. From 10:45-11:45, Kevin Carroll speaking. From what I have heard, the kids are already talking about this event. This is a great sign that they are ready to hear about what some of their choices for the future might be. On the day of the event, I need you to show up at 8:50 AM sharp, so that you can check in at the office, take a look at your room assignment and meet the other panelists in your room. I'd like for you to all have a few minutes to get to know each other, so please be on time. Thanks in advance so very much for helping us with our Career Fair. There is one more question you will need to be prepared to answer the day of the event: What personality traits are assets that help you enjoy this job? For example if you are a lawyer you might have to enjoy meeting with people, listening to their problems and finding a solution that suits your clients. You also might have to enjoy researching and finding other cases that might help your client. Or, if you are a salesperson you might have to like hearing peoples stories, making people feel special while under-promising and over-delivering. There will be a teacher facilitator in each room to help with student management and discussion movement. You should be finished by 10:45. If you would like to stay to hear Kevin Carroll or to come early to hear Luke Burbank, please let me know in advance so that I can make seating arrangements. If you know of any other dynamic speakers that you think might be able to help us make a difference, please let me know as soon as possible. I will need their contact information. Thanks again for helping make this event one to remember. Also, please let me know if you have any questions regarding the event. Have a great day. Take Care, Shawn Hosford 206 368 3945 206 963 1594 -------------- next part -------------- Hi all, ? Ingraham High School (Seattle) is putting on a career fair on May 28th.? Given the success of our Aerospace program, the organizers of the fair have asked me to try and recruit a "real live rocket scientist" to be part of their panels in the morning. ? If anyone out there: A) works in the aerospace industry, B) lives a reasonable driving distance from IHS in North Seattle (it's too much to ask to have folks driving from Oregon or Spokane...), and C) would be willing to actually take a day off and volunteer to speak to teenagers... ? Then please relay the answers to the four questions in blue at the end of this thread and I will pass you on to the organizers. ? Thanks all! ? Peter Schurke Teacher and Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School Seattle, WA From: Shawn Hosford [mailto:shawnhosford at comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:15 AM To: Schurke, Peter Subject: Ingraham Career Fair Below you will find the?information?about the career fair. We have two great key note speakers (see below!) and 100 panelist, but no one from the "rocket science" area. If you know of someone who?would?like to come and help?inspire?the kids please have the answer the blue highlighted questions below or call me asap.? Take Care, Shawn? Good Morning Peter,? As you can, I am passionate about this career fair. The reason that I am involved is that I care deeply about students and helping them to see big pictures. ?A vice principal at Ingraham?High?School asked if I could help her put together a career fair for their students to attend at the end of the school year.? Well... ?when I commit to something, I go big or I go home! I do it with not only my two feet, but I also start getting the feet of everyone around me moving that I can! So, the gathering has begun.? Folks are coming forward to help, and it's becoming an?incredible event. So far, Luke Burbank (from NPR) is going to start off our morning speaking to the entire student?body. Then, the 9th graders are going to participate in an interactive learning event with a great?organization?called Choices.? The 10th, 11th and 12th graders will be listening to (their?choice) of?panelists who will be speaking about their professions. There will be 25 different panels (with 4 people on each panel) from which to choose. Our students will have the opportunity to attend two different sessions during the period of an hour and a half.? To finish off the morning, the students will again gather together to hear Kevin Carroll, a national?renowned?author and motivational speaker.? And, here's where I need your help... or feet... or actually your time - I would love it if you could be one of the panelist. The?information?is included below. The ?dropout rate for Seattle Public Schools is 32%, Ingraham is only 19% -? these are the numbers that inspired me to help. The diversity numbers at Ingraham are great, they look like this:? Black?23% Asian 31% White 33% Hispanic 11% American Indian 2% Special?Education Kids 14% Free & Reduced Lunch 47% Drop-out rate 19% With the exception of the free and reduced cost lunch ( too many folks trying to make ends meet!) and the dropout rate, I love the schools numbers.? Thanks for always being super-supportive, that's why I can?accomplish?what I do when I "borrow" your feet and the feet on many others. Take Care, Shawn Good Afternoon, Thank you for signing up to help with?Ingraham?Career fair. I want to let you know how the process is going to work. First of all, I need you to answer the questions below asap: 1) What is your career/job? 2) How much education did your job require? 3) What hours are required, how many per week and what time of day or night? 4) What is the average salary?range for someone in your?position? Then I need your name, address, phone number and email address.? Here is what you can expect our morning (on May 28th) to entail. Luke Burbank will be speaking?from 8-9. Then we have two sections of?speaker panels from 9:10-10:40 (the first from 9:10-9:50, the second 10:00-10:40). We will need you to do both sections, so we can allow for maximum coverage with our students. All of the freshman will be participating in a program called Choices?during?this period. From 10:45-11:45, Kevin Carroll?speaking. From?what I have heard, the kids are already talking about this event. This is a great sign that they are ready to hear about what some of their?choices for the future might be.? On the day of the event, I need you to show up at 8:50 AM? sharp , so that you can check in at the office, take a look at your room assignment and meet the other?panelists in your room. I'd like for you to all have a few minutes to get to know?each other, so please be on time.? Thanks in advance so very much for helping us with our Career Fair.? There is one more question you will need to be prepared to answer the day of the event: What personality traits are assets that help you enjoy this job?? For example if you are a lawyer you might have to enjoy meeting with people, listening to their problems and finding a solution that suits your clients. You also might have to enjoy researching and finding other cases that might help your client. Or, if you are a salesperson you might have to like hearing peoples?stories, making people feel special while under-promising and over-delivering.?There will be a teacher?facilitator?in each room to help with student?management?and?discussion?movement. You should be finished by 10:45. If you would like to stay to hear Kevin Carroll or to come early to hear Luke Burbank, please?let me know in advance so that I can make seating arrangements. If you know of any other dynamic speakers that you think might be able to help us make a?difference,?please?let me know as soon as possible. I will need their contact?information.? Thanks again for helping make this event one to remember.? Also, please let me know if you have any questions regarding the event.? Have a great day. Take Care, Shawn Hosford 206 368 3945? 206 963 1594 From appusher at q.com Tue May 12 12:32:14 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:32:14 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch Message-ID: Someone wanted to know where they could get strobe lights for the night launch. I can't seem to find the email. I have been working with a strobe light project. I think I have something that will work. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- Someone wanted to know where they could get strobe lights for the night launch. I can't seem to find the email.? I have been working with a strobe light project. I think I have something that will work. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From fred.azinger at intel.com Tue May 12 12:35:02 2009 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:35:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hack a disposable camera strobe.... See: http://members.misty.com/don/kmaxhack.html Or search for similar results. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:32 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch Someone wanted to know where they could get strobe lights for the night launch. I can't seem to find the email. I have been working with a strobe light project. I think I have something that will work. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue May 12 12:45:36 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:45:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A09D1E0.9010800@hawkfeather.com> These work well for a 3" nose cone hacked into a 3" tube coupler. http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/STROBE-5B/12-VDC-XENON-STROBE-BLUE-LENS/1.html I run it off a 9V battery - a little slower & less bright than 12V. Andrew. Azinger, Fred wrote: > Hack a disposable camera strobe.... > See: http://members.misty.com/don/kmaxhack.html > Or search for similar results. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:32 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > > Someone wanted to know where they could get strobe lights for the night launch. > > I can't seem to find the email. I have been working with a strobe light project. > > I think I have something that will work. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From melamy at earthlink.net Tue May 12 13:02:53 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch Message-ID: <32556066.1242158574057.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> or you can just use a emergency beacon type strobe and strap it in for the ride... http://www.acrelectronics.com/cstrobe/c-strobe.html best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: "Azinger, Fred" >Sent: May 12, 2009 3:35 PM >To: Bill Munds , "rockets at rocketsnw.com" >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > >Hack a disposable camera strobe.... >See: http://members.misty.com/don/kmaxhack.html >Or search for similar results. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds >Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:32 PM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > >Someone wanted to know where they could get strobe lights for the night launch. > >I can't seem to find the email. I have been working with a strobe light project. > >I think I have something that will work. > > > >Bill > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >Join me >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmrandall at gmail.com Tue May 12 16:21:28 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:21:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch In-Reply-To: <32556066.1242158574057.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <32556066.1242158574057.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905121621r44671647gc3a7aef3837fed97@mail.gmail.com> Not sure if you're near a Joe's - but they currently are at about 40% off on car accessories. They have some 12v (probably can work on 9v too) LED strips for cars that look like they could be cool. Standard price of a 18" strip is $29.99 with about 10 LED's. They have many colors and lengths. Also, you might check some of the bicycle accessory racks at Target/Joes/WalMart, etc... Some of the new white headlights are fully self contained, small, relatively lightweight and bright as all get-out. Vetco electronics has a "bright LED beacon" solder-it-yourself kit that was on display. There are probably simpler kits, but it would work. http://shop.vetcosurplus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=215&products_id=7350 From appusher at q.com Tue May 12 16:47:27 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 23:47:27 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Fred, It's the disposible camera hack that I'm working on. Actually got it to work. John H gave me a pile of the disposible cameras awhile back and have just now had time to mess with them. Cheap. Flash rate could be a bit faster but it works for finding those pesky escapee rockets. Wait till the dark comes and look for the flash. I have used this method before with success. I think it was Aaron that was looking for a strobe but wasn't sure. Andrew, I think your contribution was the most helpful for those looking to do a night launch. Light weight and for under $7. Just need to figure a 12v power supply and that would work great. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: fred.azinger at intel.com > To: appusher at q.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:35:02 -0700 > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > Hack a disposable camera strobe.... > See: http://members.misty.com/don/kmaxhack.html > Or search for similar results. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:32 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > > Someone wanted to know where they could get strobe lights for the night launch. > > I can't seem to find the email. I have been working with a strobe light project. > > I think I have something that will work. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me -------------- next part -------------- Hey Fred, It's the disposible camera hack that I'm working on.? Actually got it to work. John H gave me a pile of the disposible cameras awhile back and have just now had time to mess with them. ? Cheap.? Flash rate could be a bit faster but it works for finding those pesky escapee rockets.? Wait till the dark comes and look for the flash. I have used this method before with success. ? I think it was Aaron that was looking for a strobe but wasn't sure. ? Andrew, I think your contribution was the most helpful for those looking to do a night launch.? Light weight and for under $7. Just need to figure a 12v power supply and that would work great. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: fred.azinger at intel.com > To: appusher at q.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:35:02 -0700 > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > Hack a disposable camera strobe.... > See: http://members.misty.com/don/kmaxhack.html > Or search for similar results. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:32 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > > Someone wanted to know where they could get strobe lights for the night launch. > > I can't seem to find the email. I have been working with a strobe light project. > > I think I have something that will work. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me From daron at daronjohnson.com Tue May 12 19:54:29 2009 From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:54:29 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Countdown to FTIS Message-ID: <003301c9d376$24c9b3d0$6e5d1b70$@com> Little over a week to finish up stuff.. Think 70 and 3mph wind :) For those of you that know Bryon Schopp, I'm thinking he should bring this for his wife. http://vimeo.com/1803735 -------------- next part -------------- Little over a week to finish up stuff???. Think 70 and 3mph wind :) ? For those of you that know Bryon Schopp, I'm thinking he should bring this for his wife. http://vimeo.com/1803735 http://vimeo.com/1803735 ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue May 12 21:07:08 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 21:07:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Countdown to FTIS References: <003301c9d376$24c9b3d0$6e5d1b70$@com> Message-ID: OMG, I've never seen that one. I want one!!! Wife disagrees, I'll work on that. FITS we at Brothers wish you a dry and no wind weekend. May your darts not drift. Have a great weekend. We are looking at partly cloudy, and now 70's / low 80's. Let the season begin. Have fun all, by OregonRocketry Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daron Johnson" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 7:54 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Countdown to FTIS > Little over a week to finish up stuff.. Think 70 and 3mph wind :) > > > > For those of you that know Bryon Schopp, I'm thinking he should bring this > for his wife. > > http://vimeo.com/1803735 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Tue May 12 21:16:55 2009 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 21:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29364.88759.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Holy smokes! I gave those to you over three years ago. Now that is taking your time. I wander if I could still get some of those. John H ________________________________ From: Bill Munds To: fred azinger ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:47:27 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch Hey Fred, It's the disposible camera hack that I'm working on.? Actually got it to work. John H gave me a pile of the disposible cameras awhile back and have just now had time to mess with them. ? Cheap.? Flash rate could be a bit faster but it works for finding those pesky escapee rockets.? Wait till the dark comes and look for the flash. I have used this method before with success. ? I think it was Aaron that was looking for a strobe but wasn't sure. ? Andrew, I think your contribution was the most helpful for those looking to do a night launch.? Light weight and for under $7. Just need to figure a 12v power supply and that would work great. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: fred.azinger at intel.com > To: appusher at q.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:35:02 -0700 > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > Hack a disposable camera strobe.... > See: http://members.misty.com/don/kmaxhack.html > Or search for similar results. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:32 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > > Someone wanted to know where they could get strobe lights for the night launch. > > I can't seem to find the email. I have been working with a strobe light project. > > I think I have something that will work. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me -------------- next part -------------- Holy smokes! I gave those to you over three years ago. Now that is taking your time. I wander if I could still get some of those. ? John H From: Bill Munds To: fred azinger ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:47:27 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch Hey Fred, It's the disposible camera hack that I'm working on.? Actually got it to work. John H gave me a pile of the disposible cameras awhile back and have just now had time to mess with them. ? Cheap.? Flash rate could be a bit faster but it works for finding those pesky escapee rockets.? Wait till the dark comes and look for the flash. I have used this method before with success. ? I think it was Aaron that was looking for a strobe but wasn't sure. ? Andrew, I think your contribution was the most helpful for those looking to do a night launch.? Light weight and for under $7. Just need to figure a 12v power supply and that would work great. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: mailto:fred.azinger at intel.com fred.azinger at intel.com > To: mailto:appusher at q.com appusher at q.com ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:35:02 -0700 > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > Hack a disposable camera strobe.... > See: http://members.misty.com/don/kmaxhack.html > Or search for similar results. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Munds > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:32 PM > To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] strobe lights for night launch > > > Someone wanted to know where they could get strobe lights for the night launch. > > I can't seem to find the email. I have been working with a strobe light project. > > I think I have something that will work. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Wed May 13 08:59:31 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:59:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Radio Flyer Retro Rocket Message-ID: <4A0AEE63.9000003@earthlink.net> http://www.amazon.com/Radio-Flyer-60-Retro-Rocket/dp/B00021HBN6 From dmrandall at gmail.com Wed May 13 09:46:16 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:46:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Radio Flyer Retro Rocket In-Reply-To: <4A0AEE63.9000003@earthlink.net> References: <4A0AEE63.9000003@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905130946k3b56fd55r4c7709bf2058fe78@mail.gmail.com> I think I have a 54mm motor tube and some rail buttons that'll fit that. On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Hammer wrote: > http://www.amazon.com/Radio-Flyer-60-Retro-Rocket/dp/B00021HBN6 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From rcdm at outlawnet.com Wed May 13 09:58:33 2009 From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:58:33 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm Forward Seal Disc References: <4A09D1E0.9010800@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <639AE4464BD54DB5BB2FFAB7B3572FFF@DANE> Team BORG is hoping to launch our newly rebuilt 1/3 scale WAC/Tiny Tim 2 stage at the OROC launch this Saturday. Motors are L2200 to L850. We need an Aerotech 75mm forward seal disc to fly it. We have one on order but not sure it will be in hand in time. Does anyone coming to the launch have one that we could use? As usual, if we lose/damage it we'll replace it. Thanks in advance. Rod Moorehead -------------- next part -------------- Team BORG is hoping to launch our newly rebuilt 1/3 scale WAC/Tiny Tim 2 stage at the OROC launch this Saturday. Motors are L2200 to L850. ? We need an Aerotech 75mm forward seal disc to fly it. We have one on order but not sure it will be in hand in time. Does?anyone coming to the launch have one that we could use? As usual, if we lose/damage it we'll replace it. ? Thanks in advance. ? Rod Moorehead From fred.azinger at intel.com Wed May 13 11:02:26 2009 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:02:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm Forward Seal Disc In-Reply-To: <639AE4464BD54DB5BB2FFAB7B3572FFF@DANE> References: <4A09D1E0.9010800@hawkfeather.com> <639AE4464BD54DB5BB2FFAB7B3572FFF@DANE> Message-ID: Also -- they need a long rail -- I have a 12' section I'm willing to loan, but I can not attend. Anyone else going this weekend that can either haul my rail or provide a 12 footer? FredA PS: do enjoy the great weather -- wish I could attend -- hope to read some great launch reports and see photos ;-) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Moorehead Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:59 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm Forward Seal Disc Team BORG is hoping to launch our newly rebuilt 1/3 scale WAC/Tiny Tim 2 stage at the OROC launch this Saturday. Motors are L2200 to L850. We need an Aerotech 75mm forward seal disc to fly it. We have one on order but not sure it will be in hand in time. Does anyone coming to the launch have one that we could use? As usual, if we lose/damage it we'll replace it. Thanks in advance. Rod Moorehead From sb at berfield.com Wed May 13 11:29:19 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:29:19 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Cool shuttle launch image Message-ID: I thought this was cool -- an IR image of the shuttle launch: http://gizmodo.com/5250975/atlantis-launch-infrared-photo-so-crispy-you-actually-want-to-bite-it -------------- next part -------------- I thought this was cool -- an IR image of the shuttle launch: http://gizmodo.com/5250975/atlantis-launch-infrared-photo-so-crispy-you-actually-want-to-bite-it From carl at mousetrap.com Wed May 13 14:19:41 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:19:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fire in the Sky online registration Message-ID: *If you don't plan to attend Fire in the Sky this year, you can stop reading now. Every flier at Fire in the Sky will need a wrist band indicating their certification level. You and your family will receive wrist bands when you check in. The check-in process will be quick and easy if you have registered online at http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php. Below you will find two transcripts: one showing how check-in *should* go, and the other showing how check-in may go if you don't register online or you arrive unprepared. Read them both and decide which you would prefer. Even if you have already registered online, you may want to read the transcripts as a reminder of what you will need at check-in time. If you have any questions about registration and/or what you will need at check-in, please feel free to contact me. Thanks. - Carl **Flier:* Hi, my name is Joe Registered. Here is my NAR card and signed liability waivers for me and my family. *Volunteer:* Hi, Joe. I see that you are a WAC member and that you registered for FITS online. Here are wrist bands for you and your family. Enjoy your weekend! *Flier:* Hi, my name is Norman Notregistered. *Volunteer:* Hi, Norman. Did you register for the launch online? *Flier:* Uh, no. *Volunteer:* OK, are you a WAC member? *Flier:* Uh, no. *Volunteer:* Would you like to join the club? If you do, you and your family will save $10 just on this launch. You will also be able to attend our October launch for free. *Flier:* That sounds good, will you take a check? *Volunteer:* Yes, please fill out this membership form. That will be $40. [time passes...] *Flier:* Done. Here you go. *Volunteer:* Thanks. Do you have signed liability waivers for each member of your family? *Flier:* No, do I need them? *Volunteer:* Yes. Please fill out these liability forms and have them signed. [more time passes...] *Flier:* Done. Here you go. *Volunteer:* Thanks. May I please see your NAR or TRA card? *Flier:* It's in my car. Do you really need to see it? *Volunteer:* If you want to fly high power, yes. We need it to verify your certification level to give you the correct wrist band. [even more time passes...] *Flier:* I found it! Here you go. *Volunteer:* Thanks. Here are wrist bands for you and your family. Enjoy your weekend! -------------- next part -------------- If you don't plan to attend Fire in the Sky this year, you can stop reading now. Every flier at Fire in the Sky will need a wrist band indicating their certification level. You and your family will receive wrist bands when you check in. The check-in process will be quick and easy if you have registered online at? http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php . Below you will find two transcripts: one showing how check-in *should* go, and the other showing how check-in may go if you don't register online or you arrive unprepared. Read them both and decide which you would prefer. Even if you have already registered online, you may want to read the transcripts as a reminder of what you will need at check-in time. If you have any questions about registration and/or what you will need at check-in, please feel free to contact me. Thanks. ? ?- Carl Flier: Hi, my name is Joe Registered. Here is my NAR card and signed liability waivers for me and my family. Volunteer: Hi, Joe. I see that you are a WAC member and that you registered for FITS online. Here are wrist bands for you and your family. Enjoy your weekend! Flier: Hi, my name is Norman Notregistered. Volunteer: Hi, Norman. Did you register for the launch online? Flier: Uh, no. Volunteer: OK, are you a WAC member? Flier: Uh, no. Volunteer: Would you like to join the club? If you do, you and your family will save $10 just on this launch. You will also be able to attend our October launch for free. Flier: That sounds good, will you take a check? Volunteer: Yes, please fill out this membership form. That will be $40. [time passes...] Flier: ?Done. Here you go. Volunteer: Thanks. Do you have signed liability waivers for each member of your family? Flier: No, do I need them? Volunteer: Yes. Please fill out these liability forms and have them signed. [more time passes...] Flier: Done. Here you go. Volunteer: Thanks. May I please see your NAR or TRA card? Flier: It's in my car. Do you really need to see it? Volunteer: ?If you want to fly high power, yes. We need it to verify your certification level to give you the correct wrist band. [even more time passes...] Flier: I found it! Here you go. Volunteer: Thanks. Here are wrist bands for you and your family. Enjoy your weekend! From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Wed May 13 14:59:48 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:59:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD; NEW frequent flyer club! Message-ID: Howdy, So, with all the changes in 2009, we are going to be adding a new "club" to our frequent customers. The idea is to be able to build a email list where we can offer "special" deals on all sorts of products, that our customers can take advantage of. This will include special sales, closeout deals, and discounts based on past purchases ( working on a percentage discount based on sales, but I have not worked it all out yet). It is free to join, and all you need to do is come by the booth, fill out the form, and we will put into the binder. All you need to do, is keep us updated on your contact information and cert level. I am hoping that we will be able to make motor purchases easier and more cost effective by using the new system. Hopefully, we will no longer require a LEUP after Friday, but we will require to see a current membership card for all reloads, or we can look up your account in the club. We will be at the Brothers Launch this weekend, and at FITS the following weekend. Then up at Dayton two weeks later!!! Look forward to seeing you all soon. Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory www.rocketryshop.org From john_lyngdal at verizon.net Wed May 13 17:52:35 2009 From: john_lyngdal at verizon.net (John Lyngdal) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:52:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm Forward Seal Disc In-Reply-To: <639AE4464BD54DB5BB2FFAB7B3572FFF@DANE> References: <4A09D1E0.9010800@hawkfeather.com> <639AE4464BD54DB5BB2FFAB7B3572FFF@DANE> Message-ID: <003f01c9d42e$465cc9c0$d3165d40$@net> I have one and I think I can had it off to Fred Busse for delivery. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Moorehead Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:59 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm Forward Seal Disc Team BORG is hoping to launch our newly rebuilt 1/3 scale WAC/Tiny Tim 2 stage at the OROC launch this Saturday. Motors are L2200 to L850. We need an Aerotech 75mm forward seal disc to fly it. We have one on order but not sure it will be in hand in time. Does anyone coming to the launch have one that we could use? As usual, if we lose/damage it we'll replace it. Thanks in advance. Rod Moorehead From sb at berfield.com Wed May 13 22:13:57 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 05:13:57 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Message-ID: I am looking for information on the mechanical stresses on a rocket at launch and through boost at both subsonic and supersonic speeds. Any of you engineer types have any references you could point me at? -------------- next part -------------- I am looking for information on the mechanical stresses on a rocket at launch and through boost at?both subsonic and supersonic speeds. Any of you engineer types have any references you could point me at? From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Wed May 13 22:20:16 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:20:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list Message-ID: <4A0BAA10.9070708@hawkfeather.com> First off, does anybody have a P38-3G CTI case that I could borrow? Plus the delay tool & some time to help? I've never assembled one before. I-break-it-I-bought-it. More importantly, there are a couple of things I could use help with for my L3 cert: - ladder for the away cell - photo & video services Plz reply off-list. Thanx, Andrew. From geoff.granum at lookingglasssoftware.com Wed May 13 22:35:09 2009 From: geoff.granum at lookingglasssoftware.com (Geoff M. Granum) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:35:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rocket Propulsion Elements has a section. I don't recall that it was very deep. Nor can I think of anything that specifically addresses a rocket throughout its flight envelope. If you want to know the stresses on fins, you pretty much read up on wing structures, stresses on engine components you read a book on engines, etc. Everything else I can think of is very shallow. Toss out any specific questions you have and I might be able to give you a few books. If you are just itemizing I can give you a punch list pretty easily. -- Geoff M. Granum geoff.granum at LookingGlassSoftware.com Portland, Oregon On Wed, 13 May 2009 22:13:57 -0700, Scott Berfield wrote: > I am looking for information on the mechanical stresses on a rocket at > launch and through boost at?both subsonic and supersonic speeds. Any of > you engineer types have any references you could point me at? From blakbird11 at comcast.net Wed May 13 23:32:27 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 23:32:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85D4B780-B60C-4952-A5A8-4B6C7ECA9001@comcast.net> I'm a reference you can point at..... at which you can point. I analyze mechanical stresses on aerospace structures for a living. My major in college was in hypersonic flow dynamics. I can say in advance that the answers are significantly longer than the length of the question. ;-) I can also say that most reference books are fairly useless compared with the real world. Fire away with some questions or find me at FITS. If you REALLY want some deep reading, try "Analysis and Design of Flight Vehicle Structures" by Bruhn or "Airframe Stress Analysis and Sizing" by Michael Niu. If you just want some formulas to solve for stresses, the bible is "Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain". If you want to dig into aerodynamic forces, any of John Anderson's books are good. "Introduction to Flight" is a good start, "Fundamentals of Aerodynamics" is heavier, and "Hypersonic and High Temperature Gas Dynamics" is heavy enough to sink the Titanic. These are all pretty expensive so if you'd like to borrow one I could probably send one your way. But asking me is way easier unless you are masochistic enough to dream about partial differential equations. As long as we're talking fun subjects, one of the important fields that lots of rocketeers don't think too much about is parachutes and their design. I highly recommend "Parachute Recovery Systems" by T.W. Knacke. He literally wrote the book on chutes and was the Head of Technical Staff of the team which designed the Apollo and Gemini recovery systems. I was lucky enough to take this class from him in college. Eric Albrecht On May 13, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I am looking for information on the mechanical stresses on a rocket > at launch and through boost at both subsonic and supersonic speeds. > Any of you engineer types have any references you could point me at? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Thu May 14 08:23:13 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:23:13 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Message-ID: Thanks! I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial differential equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am pretty sure I am immune to them anyway. What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we build into these things is really required. In general, for smaller rockets, the structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the same thing -- we have a motor mount tube, centering rings, and a tube all tied together into a fairly rigid structure. As thing scale up, it seems like most projects maintain this basic design. What I am thinking about is how much I can divorce the structural/strength part from the aerodynamic skin part. The overall rocket must be able to take the abuse of takeoff and acceleration, and that part I feel fairly confident about since it is pretty straightforward to see how the force gerts applied and is transferred. Where I am less certain is in how much requirement there is for the outer skin to be strong and/or rigid. An area I am particularly dumb about is what happens at the transition to supersonic flight. My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that are lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on them. Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :) -----Original Message----- From: Eric Albrecht [mailto:blakbird11 at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:32 PM To: 'Rockets Northwest' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket I'm a reference you can point at..... at which you can point. I analyze mechanical stresses on aerospace structures for a living. My major in college was in hypersonic flow dynamics. I can say in advance that the answers are significantly longer than the length of the question. ;-) I can also say that most reference books are fairly useless compared with the real world. Fire away with some questions or find me at FITS. If you REALLY want some deep reading, try "Analysis and Design of Flight Vehicle Structures" by Bruhn or "Airframe Stress Analysis and Sizing" by Michael Niu. If you just want some formulas to solve for stresses, the bible is "Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain". If you want to dig into aerodynamic forces, any of John Anderson's books are good. "Introduction to Flight" is a good start, "Fundamentals of Aerodynamics" is heavier, and "Hypersonic and High Temperature Gas Dynamics" is heavy enough to sink the Titanic. These are all pretty expensive so if you'd like to borrow one I could probably send one your way. But asking me is way easier unless you are masochistic enough to dream about partial differential equations. As long as we're talking fun subjects, one of the important fields that lots of rocketeers don't think too much about is parachutes and their design. I highly recommend "Parachute Recovery Systems" by T.W. Knacke. He literally wrote the book on chutes and was the Head of Technical Staff of the team which designed the Apollo and Gemini recovery systems. I was lucky enough to take this class from him in college. Eric Albrecht On May 13, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I am looking for information on the mechanical stresses on a rocket > at launch and through boost at both subsonic and supersonic speeds. > Any of you engineer types have any references you could point me at? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Thanks! ? I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial differential equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am pretty sure I am immune to them anyway. ? What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we build into these things is really required. In general, for smaller rockets, the structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the same thing -- we have a motor mount tube, centering rings, and a tube all tied together into a fairly rigid structure. As thing scale up, it seems like most projects maintain this basic design. What I am thinking about is how much I can divorce the structural/strength part from the aerodynamic skin part. The overall rocket must be able to take the abuse of takeoff and acceleration, and that part I feel fairly confident about since it is pretty straightforward to see how the force gerts applied and is transferred. Where I am less certain is in how much requirement there is for the outer skin?to be strong and/or rigid. An area I am particularly dumb about is what happens at the transition to supersonic flight. ? My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that are lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on them. Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :) -----Original Message----- From: Eric Albrecht [mailto:blakbird11 at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:32 PM To: 'Rockets Northwest' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket I'm a reference you can point at..... at which you can point. I analyze mechanical stresses on aerospace structures for a living. My major in college was in hypersonic flow dynamics. I can say in advance that the answers are significantly longer than the length of the question. ;-) I can also say that most reference books are fairly useless compared with the real world. Fire away with some questions or find me at FITS. If you REALLY want some deep reading, try "Analysis and Design of Flight Vehicle Structures" by Bruhn or "Airframe Stress Analysis and Sizing" by Michael Niu. If you just want some formulas to solve for stresses, the bible is "Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain". If you want to dig into aerodynamic forces, any of John Anderson's books are good. "Introduction to Flight" is a good start, "Fundamentals of Aerodynamics" is heavier, and "Hypersonic and High Temperature Gas Dynamics" is heavy enough to sink the Titanic. These are all pretty expensive so if you'd like to borrow one I could probably send one your way. But asking me is way easier unless you are masochistic enough to dream about partial differential equations. As long as we're talking fun subjects, one of the important fields that lots of rocketeers don't think too much about is parachutes and their design. I highly recommend "Parachute Recovery Systems" by T.W. Knacke. He literally wrote the book on chutes and was the Head of Technical Staff of the team which designed the Apollo and Gemini recovery systems. I was lucky enough to take this class from him in college. Eric Albrecht On May 13, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I am looking for information on the mechanical stresses on a rocket > at launch and through boost at both subsonic and supersonic speeds. > Any of you engineer types have any references you could point me at? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu May 14 08:36:05 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:36:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list In-Reply-To: <4A0BAA10.9070708@hawkfeather.com> References: <4A0BAA10.9070708@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <4A0C3A65.1070503@hawkfeather.com> What a group! I've got enough case offers to fly a 6 motor cluster ;) And the ladder & video are covered as well. Does anybody know if T3 will be there for photos? Andrew. Andrew MacMillen wrote: > First off, does anybody have a P38-3G CTI case that I could borrow? Plus > the delay tool & some time to help? I've never assembled one before. > I-break-it-I-bought-it. > > More importantly, there are a couple of things I could use help with for > my L3 cert: > - ladder for the away cell > - photo & video services > > Plz reply off-list. > > Thanx, > Andrew. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From greg at blastzone.com Thu May 14 08:37:08 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:37:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <232b01c9d4a9$d9459f70$8bd0de50$@com> I've seen many large (>12" dia) projects do just that, have an internal structure where the strength lies, airframe is just a skin. I'm doing basically that in a 11.4" project currently under construction. Also, I think the most severe stresses a rocket ever encounters are not during liftoff or flight, but when its hitting the ground under chute and (worse) being transported from/to the launch site. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Scott Berfield > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 8:23 AM > To: Eric Albrecht; Rockets Northwest > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > Thanks! > > I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial differential > equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am pretty sure I am immune > to them anyway. > > What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we build into > these things is really required. In general, for smaller rockets, the > structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the same thing -- we have a > motor mount tube, centering rings, and a tube all tied together into a fairly > rigid structure. As thing scale up, it seems like most projects maintain this > basic design. What I am thinking about is how much I can divorce the > structural/strength part from the aerodynamic skin part. The overall rocket > must be able to take the abuse of takeoff and acceleration, and that part I > feel fairly confident about since it is pretty straightforward to see how the > force gerts applied and is transferred. Where I am less certain is in how much > requirement there is for the outer skin to be strong and/or rigid. An area I > am particularly dumb about is what happens at the transition to supersonic > flight. > > My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that are > lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on them. > Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :) -----Original Message--- > -- > From: Eric Albrecht [mailto:blakbird11 at comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:32 PM > To: 'Rockets Northwest' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > I'm a reference you can point at..... at which you can point. I analyze > mechanical stresses on aerospace structures for a living. My major in college > was in hypersonic flow dynamics. I can say in advance that the answers are > significantly longer than the length of the question. ;-) I can also say that > most reference books are fairly useless compared with the real world. Fire > away with some questions or find me at FITS. If you REALLY want some deep > reading, try "Analysis and Design of Flight Vehicle Structures" by Bruhn or > "Airframe Stress Analysis and Sizing" by Michael Niu. If you just want some > formulas to solve for stresses, the bible is "Roark's Formulas for Stress and > Strain". If you want to dig into aerodynamic forces, any of John Anderson's > books are good. "Introduction to Flight" is a good start, "Fundamentals of > Aerodynamics" is heavier, and "Hypersonic and High Temperature Gas Dynamics" > is heavy enough to sink the Titanic. These are all pretty expensive so if > you'd like to borrow one I could probably send one your way. But asking me is > way easier unless you are masochistic enough to dream about partial > differential equations. As long as we're talking fun subjects, one of the > important fields that lots of rocketeers don't think too much about is > parachutes and their design. I highly recommend "Parachute Recovery Systems" > by T.W. Knacke. He literally wrote the book on chutes and was the Head of > Technical Staff of the team which designed the Apollo and Gemini recovery > systems. I was lucky enough to take this class from him in college. Eric > Albrecht On May 13, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I am looking > for information on the mechanical stresses on a rocket > at launch and through > boost at both subsonic and supersonic speeds. > Any of you engineer types have > any references you could point me at? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From blakbird11 at comcast.net Thu May 14 08:42:36 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:42:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm off to work at the moment, but I'll try to reply this evening. There's a lot to discuss on this topic, so if you are willing to wait until FITS, we can talk there. The short answer is that most high power rockets I've seen are vastly overbuilt. Eric On May 14, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Scott Berfield wrote: > Thanks! > > I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial > differential equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am > pretty sure I am immune to them anyway. > > What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we > build into these things is really required. In general, for smaller > rockets, the structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the > same thing -- we have a motor mount tube, centering rings, and a > tube all tied together into a fairly rigid structure. As thing scale > up, it seems like most projects maintain this basic design. What I > am thinking about is how much I can divorce the structural/strength > part from the aerodynamic skin part. The overall rocket must be able > to take the abuse of takeoff and acceleration, and that part I feel > fairly confident about since it is pretty straightforward to see how > the force gerts applied and is transferred. Where I am less certain > is in how much requirement there is for the outer skin to be strong > and/or rigid. An area I am particularly dumb about is what happens > at the transition to supersonic flight. > > My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that > are lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on > them. Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Albrecht [mailto:blakbird11 at comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:32 PM > To: 'Rockets Northwest' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > I'm a reference you can point at..... at which you can point. I > analyze mechanical stresses on aerospace structures for a living. My > major in college was in hypersonic flow dynamics. I can say in > advance that the answers are significantly longer than the length of > the question. ;-) I can also say that most reference books are > fairly useless compared with the real world. Fire away with some > questions or find me at FITS. If you REALLY want some deep reading, > try "Analysis and Design of Flight Vehicle Structures" by Bruhn or > "Airframe Stress Analysis and Sizing" by Michael Niu. If you just > want some formulas to solve for stresses, the bible is "Roark's > Formulas for Stress and Strain". If you want to dig into aerodynamic > forces, any of John Anderson's books are good. "Introduction to > Flight" is a good start, "Fundamentals of Aerodynamics" is heavier, > and "Hypersonic and High Temperature Gas Dynamics" is heavy enough > to sink the Titanic. These are all pretty expensive so if you'd like > to borrow one I could probably send one your way. But asking me is > way easier unless you are masochistic enough to dream about partial > differential equations. As long as we're talking fun subjects, one > of the important fields that lots of rocketeers don't think too much > about is parachutes and their design. I highly recommend "Parachute > Recovery Systems" by T.W. Knacke. He literally wrote the book on > chutes and was the Head of Technical Staff of the team which > designed the Apollo and Gemini recovery systems. I was lucky enough > to take this class from him in college. Eric Albrecht On May 13, > 2009, at 10:13 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I am looking for > information on the mechanical stresses on a rocket > at launch and > through boost at both subsonic and supersonic speeds. > Any of you > engineer types have any references you could point me at? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing > list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing > list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- I'm off to work at the moment, but I'll try to reply this evening. ?There's a lot to discuss on this topic, so if you are willing to wait until FITS, we can talk there. ?The short answer is that most high power rockets I've seen are vastly overbuilt. Eric On May 14, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Scott Berfield wrote: Thanks! ? I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial differential equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am pretty sure I am immune to them anyway. ? What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we build into these things is really required. In general, for smaller rockets, the structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the same thing -- we have a motor mount tube, centering rings, and a tube all tied together into a fairly rigid structure. As thing scale up, it seems like most projects maintain this basic design. What I am thinking about is how much I can divorce the structural/strength part from the aerodynamic skin part. The overall rocket must be able to take the abuse of takeoff and acceleration, and that part I feel fairly confident about since it is pretty straightforward to see how the force gerts applied and is transferred. Where I am less certain is in how much requirement there is for the outer skin?to be strong and/or rigid. An area I am particularly dumb about is what happens at the transition to supersonic flight. ? My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that are lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on them. Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :) -----Original Message----- From: Eric Albrecht [ mailto:blakbird11 at comcast.net mailto:blakbird11 at comcast.net ] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:32 PM To: 'Rockets Northwest' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket I'm a reference you can point at..... at which you can point. I analyze mechanical stresses on aerospace structures for a living. My major in college was in hypersonic flow dynamics. I can say in advance that the answers are significantly longer than the length of the question. ;-) I can also say that most reference books are fairly useless compared with the real world. Fire away with some questions or find me at FITS. If you REALLY want some deep reading, try "Analysis and Design of Flight Vehicle Structures" by Bruhn or "Airframe Stress Analysis and Sizing" by Michael Niu. If you just want some formulas to solve for stresses, the bible is "Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain". If you want to dig into aerodynamic forces, any of John Anderson's books are good. "Introduction to Flight" is a good start, "Fundamentals of Aerodynamics" is heavier, and "Hypersonic and High Temperature Gas Dynamics" is heavy enough to sink the Titanic. These are all pretty expensive so if you'd like to borrow one I could probably send one your way. But asking me is way easier unless you are masochistic enough to dream about partial differential equations. As long as we're talking fun subjects, one of the important fields that lots of rocketeers don't think too much about is parachutes and their design. I highly recommend "Parachute Recovery Systems" by T.W. Knacke. He literally wrote the book on chutes and was the Head of Technical Staff of the team which designed the Apollo and Gemini recovery systems. I was lucky enough to take this class from him in college. Eric Albrecht On May 13, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I am looking for information on the mechanical stresses on a rocket > at launch and through boost at both subsonic and supersonic speeds. > Any of you engineer types have any references you could point me at? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From blakbird11 at comcast.net Thu May 14 08:43:48 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:43:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list In-Reply-To: <4A0C3A65.1070503@hawkfeather.com> References: <4A0BAA10.9070708@hawkfeather.com> <4A0C3A65.1070503@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <2B1364E3-ED95-4141-A3D3-73F50319BC13@comcast.net> I'm pretty sure Tsolo will be there, but as a backup so will I with my sweet camera. I don't expect I'd miss your L3, but just in case remember to tap me on the shoulder beforehand and I'll take a bunch of photos. Eric On May 14, 2009, at 8:36 AM, Andrew MacMillen wrote: > What a group! I've got enough case offers to fly a 6 motor cluster ;) > And the ladder & video are covered as well. Does anybody know if T3 > will > be there for photos? > > Andrew. > > Andrew MacMillen wrote: >> First off, does anybody have a P38-3G CTI case that I could borrow? >> Plus >> the delay tool & some time to help? I've never assembled one before. >> I-break-it-I-bought-it. >> >> More importantly, there are a couple of things I could use help >> with for >> my L3 cert: >> - ladder for the away cell >> - photo & video services >> >> Plz reply off-list. >> >> Thanx, >> Andrew. >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Thu May 14 09:02:02 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:02:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list In-Reply-To: <4A0C3A65.1070503@hawkfeather.com> References: <4A0BAA10.9070708@hawkfeather.com> <4A0C3A65.1070503@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <00e601c9d4ad$523ab660$f6b02320$@net> Yep, he'll be there. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 8:36 AM To: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list What a group! I've got enough case offers to fly a 6 motor cluster ;) And the ladder & video are covered as well. Does anybody know if T3 will be there for photos? Andrew. Andrew MacMillen wrote: > First off, does anybody have a P38-3G CTI case that I could borrow? Plus > the delay tool & some time to help? I've never assembled one before. > I-break-it-I-bought-it. > > More importantly, there are a couple of things I could use help with for > my L3 cert: > - ladder for the away cell > - photo & video services > > Plz reply off-list. > > Thanx, > Andrew. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Thu May 14 09:29:59 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:29:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090514091939.03a43fd8@mail.iinet.com> Tough proposition. From my limited research the main problems occur at initial boost and then at maximum dynamic pressure which for many of the smaller rockets are the same. Going transonic causes a whole other level of problems as does any prolonged time above mach as the rocket body starts to heat. In my experimentation which is nowhere near as complete as Eric's, about the best single modification that can be made is to have the motor connected to a thrust bulkhead. This reduces the inertial forces as the only weight that needs be supported at the bulkhead is that from the nose to the bulkhead rather than from the nose to a motor mount in the tail and the portion of the rocket behind the bulkhead is just being pulled along for the ride so the main force there is the drag. The main obstacle to this approach is that motors come in different length cases so once you fix the bulkhead that rocket is built for that case unless you use internal struts or supports when launching on smaller motors. Other than that I have found it to be a very difficult proposition to make the rocket as light as possible and still retain stability through the high performance barriers. There are endless examples of structural failures because too much weight was trying to be saved. It's like waterproofing a surface. The water, or in our case the force of the air, will find its way into any imperfections. From blakbird11 at comcast.net Thu May 14 10:13:13 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:13:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting comfortable enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the skin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric -------------- next part -------------- ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting comfortable enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the skin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation.? You **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases.? At least as important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight.? The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million pounds.? Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo).? That means the empty weight is ~500 kips.? If you do some rough calculations of density (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will find that the airplane is 10 times less dense!? And yet, ironically, it is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car.? And this is comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered.? If you compare to something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket by a factor of 100.? But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric From winningstad at comcast.net Thu May 14 10:56:31 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:56:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair> There is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get you quicker and quicker, but lower. Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting comfortable enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the skin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric From bigredbee at gmail.com Thu May 14 10:59:25 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:59:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAM Radio Freqs for Brothers Message-ID: Tim, KE7UXN, had asked me to suggest a few radio frequencies for use at Brothers. Pine Mountain has a repeater at 146.700 that works well at the launch site. While I'm driving from Portland to Bend, I usually monitor Mt Hood - 147.120 For BeeLine transmitters, I suggest you stay away from 433.920 for two reasons -- one, there tends to be some noise on that frequency from low power, unlicensed stuff like vehicle monitoring systems and remote thermometers. It's also the default frequency. FYI, if you happen to be unfortunate enough to stay home this weekend, you can watch me as I drive to and from the launch via this link: http://aprs.fi/k7rkt-2 -- Greg K7RKT From rcdm at outlawnet.com Thu May 14 11:40:34 2009 From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:40:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket References: <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <5E60C248E4FC453D9F02BBD0D7501727@DANE> Very interesting topic to me. I agree that many high power rockets are way overbuilt. I guess I'm a Lotus guy rather than a GT-40 guy. On the other hand, the tubular airframe of most hobby rockets forms a pretty strong "monocoque" structure. If you increase the complexity of the internal structure to decrease stress on a thin skin you may or may not save any weight. Just my opinion. Let's hear more! Rod Moorehead ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting comfortable enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the skin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Very interesting topic to me. I agree that many high power rockets are way overbuilt. ? I guess I'm a Lotus guy rather than a GT-40 guy. ? On the other hand, the tubular airframe of most hobby rockets forms a pretty strong "monocoque" structure. If you increase the complexity of the internal structure to decrease stress on a thin skin you may or may not save any weight. ? Just my opinion. ? Let's hear more! ? Rod Moorehead ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:blakbird11 at comcast.net Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket ----- "Scott Berfield" < mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting comfortable enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the skin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Thu May 14 13:05:50 2009 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:05:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair> References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair> Message-ID: <002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> And Rocksim will determine what that optimum weight is for a given design and motor combo. I've found it interesting that in some cases increasing the weight of a rocket will make it fly higher! :-) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:57 AM To: 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket There is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get you quicker and quicker, but lower. Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting comfortable enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the skin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Thu May 14 13:31:51 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:31:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair> <002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA9C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Want proof? Do a quick thought experiment. I'm holding in one hand a single sheet of 8 1/2" by 11" piece of paper, and in the other a Chemistry book whose cover also measures 8 1/2" by 11". If I drop them both at the same time, the book obviously hits the floor first. Why? They have the same frontal surface area, but the book has more mass to push it through the air and overcome drag. Now just turn the experiment the other direction, add a couple of rocket motors, and voila! You have the case of the magic "but I put mass in and it went higher" rocket! I love a teachable opportunity! Pete -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dennis Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'Dennis Winningstad'; 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket And Rocksim will determine what that optimum weight is for a given design and motor combo. I've found it interesting that in some cases increasing the weight of a rocket will make it fly higher! :-) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:57 AM To: 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket There is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get you quicker and quicker, but lower. Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting > comfortable enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the skin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Thu May 14 14:06:49 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:06:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA9C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair> <002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA9C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <010101c9d4d7$e67e8c00$b37ba400$@net> Peter, Good initial analogy, but the with and against gravity aspect makes a big difference as we are all aware. That is why increasing the mass of the dropped part will increase the speed for all increases while there is an optimal mass for the rocket. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:32 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Want proof? Do a quick thought experiment. I'm holding in one hand a single sheet of 8 1/2" by 11" piece of paper, and in the other a Chemistry book whose cover also measures 8 1/2" by 11". If I drop them both at the same time, the book obviously hits the floor first. Why? They have the same frontal surface area, but the book has more mass to push it through the air and overcome drag. Now just turn the experiment the other direction, add a couple of rocket motors, and voila! You have the case of the magic "but I put mass in and it went higher" rocket! I love a teachable opportunity! Pete -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dennis Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'Dennis Winningstad'; 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket And Rocksim will determine what that optimum weight is for a given design and motor combo. I've found it interesting that in some cases increasing the weight of a rocket will make it fly higher! :-) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:57 AM To: 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket There is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get you quicker and quicker, but lower. Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting > comfortable enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the skin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Thu May 14 14:12:44 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:12:44 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials Message-ID: Anyone ever mess around with Boron Potassium Nitrate (BPN) or Zirconium Potassium Perchlorate (ZPP) for igniters? ZPP is referred to in various places as "NASA Standard Initiator" -- which sounds interesting. I fyou have used this stuff, what were your experiences (other than the difficulty of finding either boron or zirconium). -------------- next part -------------- Anyone ever mess around with Boron Potassium Nitrate (BPN) or Zirconium Potassium Perchlorate (ZPP) for igniters? ZPP is referred to in various places as "NASA Standard Initiator" -- which sounds interesting. I fyou have used this stuff, what were your experiences (other than the difficulty of finding either boron or zirconium). From sb at berfield.com Thu May 14 14:18:04 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:18:04 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Message-ID: There is a nice explanation of this (essentially momentum vs. drag) at http://my.execpc.com/~culp/rockets/studies.html -----Original Message----- From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 02:06 PM To: ''Schurke, Peter'', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Peter,Good initial analogy, but the with and against gravity aspect makes a bigdifference as we are all aware. That is why increasing the mass of thedropped part will increase the speed for all increases while there is anoptimal mass for the rocket.Marty-----Original Message-----From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On Behalf Of Schurke, PeterSent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:32 PMTo: rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocketWant proof? Do a quick thought experiment. I'm holding in one hand a single sheet of 8 1/2" by 11" piece of paper,and in the other a Chemistry book whose cover also measures 8 1/2" by11". If I drop them both at the same time, the book obviously hits thefloor first. Why? They have the same frontal surface area, but thebook has more mass to push it through the air and overcome drag.Now just turn the experiment the other direction, add a couple of rocketmotors, and voila! You have the case of the magic "but I put mass in andit went higher" rocket!I love a teachable opportunity!Pete-----Original Message-----From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael DennisSent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:06 PMTo: 'Dennis Winningstad'; 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)';rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocketAnd Rocksim will determine what that optimum weight is for a givendesign and motor combo. I've found it interesting that in some casesincreasing the weight of a rocket will make it fly higher! :-)-----Original Message-----From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On Behalf Of Dennis WinningstadSent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:57 AMTo: 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocketThere is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get youquicker and quicker, but lower.Dennis S Winningstad503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious.-----Original Message-----From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AMTo: rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting > comfortableenough with the status quo to start thinking about how things reallywork -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I amthinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and isinherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA,Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through theskin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You**could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least asimportant as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight.The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application ofstructural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a millionpounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means theempty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density(total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you willfind that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, itis orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this iscomparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare tosomething just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocketby a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- There is a nice explanation of this (essentially momentum vs. drag) at http://my.execpc.com/~culp/rockets/studies.html ? -----Original Message----- From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 02:06 PM To: ''Schurke, Peter'', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Peter, Good initial analogy, but the with and against gravity aspect makes a big difference as we are all aware. That is why increasing the mass of the dropped part will increase the speed for all increases while there is an optimal mass for the rocket. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:32 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Want proof? Do a quick thought experiment. I'm holding in one hand a single sheet of 8 1/2" by 11" piece of paper, and in the other a Chemistry book whose cover also measures 8 1/2" by 11". If I drop them both at the same time, the book obviously hits the floor first. Why? They have the same frontal surface area, but the book has more mass to push it through the air and overcome drag. Now just turn the experiment the other direction, add a couple of rocket motors, and voila! You have the case of the magic "but I put mass in and it went higher" rocket! I love a teachable opportunity! Pete -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dennis Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:06 PM To: 'Dennis Winningstad'; 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket And Rocksim will determine what that optimum weight is for a given design and motor combo. I've found it interesting that in some cases increasing the weight of a rocket will make it fly higher! :-) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:57 AM To: 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket There is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get you quicker and quicker, but lower. Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting > comfortable enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the skin -- yet they fly just great. You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! Eric _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at blastzone.com Thu May 14 14:58:28 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:58:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <010101c9d4d7$e67e8c00$b37ba400$@net> References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair> <002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA9C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <010101c9d4d7$e67e8c00$b37ba400$@net> Message-ID: <247f01c9d4df$1d0a9c80$571fd580$@com> Maybe a better analogy is 'which can you throw farther, a ping pong ball or a golf ball' ? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Marty2 > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:07 PM > To: 'Schurke, Peter'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > Peter, > > Good initial analogy, but the with and against gravity aspect makes a big > difference as we are all aware. That is why increasing the mass of the > dropped part will increase the speed for all increases while there is an > optimal mass for the rocket. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:32 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > Want proof? Do a quick thought experiment. > > I'm holding in one hand a single sheet of 8 1/2" by 11" piece of paper, > and in the other a Chemistry book whose cover also measures 8 1/2" by > 11". If I drop them both at the same time, the book obviously hits the > floor first. Why? They have the same frontal surface area, but the > book has more mass to push it through the air and overcome drag. > > Now just turn the experiment the other direction, add a couple of rocket > motors, and voila! You have the case of the magic "but I put mass in and > it went higher" rocket! > > I love a teachable opportunity! > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dennis > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'Dennis Winningstad'; 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; > rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > And Rocksim will determine what that optimum weight is for a given > design and motor combo. I've found it interesting that in some cases > increasing the weight of a rocket will make it fly higher! :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:57 AM > To: 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > There is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get you > quicker and quicker, but lower. > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > > ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting > > comfortable > enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really > work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am > thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is > inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, > Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the > skin -- yet they fly just great. > > You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You > **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as > important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. > The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of > structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. > > For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million > pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the > empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density > (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will > find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it > is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is > comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to > something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. > > This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket > by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! > > Eric > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From blakbird11 at comcast.net Thu May 14 15:07:34 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:07:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <247f01c9d4df$1d0a9c80$571fd580$@com> Message-ID: <1689612607.9130381242338854892.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> These kinds of questions are easy to answer because it is the same answer that applies to all engineering questions: "It depends." Are we assuming a standard atmosphere? Are we assuming Earth level gravitation? Is the density of the air constant (incompressible)? What is the temperature (everything is solid at absolute zero)? Are you throwing straight down? Are we assuming that space-time is a constant? Have you eaten beans today? What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? It is surprising how many assumptions we implicitly make without really thinking about them, and it is not surprising to learn how often these unspoken assumptions can be wrong for a given situation. At the speeds and forces of rockets, many of our "common sense" assumptions break down. Eric ----- "Greg Deputy" wrote: > Maybe a better analogy is 'which can you throw farther, a ping pong ball or > a golf ball' ? > -------------- next part -------------- These kinds of questions are easy to answer because it is the same answer that applies to all engineering questions:? "It depends." Are we assuming a standard atmosphere?? Are we assuming Earth level gravitation?? Is the density of the air constant (incompressible)?? What is the temperature (everything is solid at absolute zero)?? Are you throwing straight down?? Are we assuming that space-time is a constant?? Have you eaten beans today?? What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? It is surprising how many assumptions we implicitly make without really thinking about them, and it is not surprising to learn how often these unspoken assumptions can be wrong for a given situation.? At the speeds and forces of rockets, many of our "common sense" assumptions break down. Eric ----- "Greg Deputy" wrote: > Maybe a better analogy is 'which can you throw farther, a ping pong ball or > a golf ball' ? > From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Thu May 14 15:14:15 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:14:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <247f01c9d4df$1d0a9c80$571fd580$@com> References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair> <002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA9C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <010101c9d4d7$e67e8c00$b37ba400$@net> <247f01c9d4df$1d0a9c80$571fd580$@com> Message-ID: <012b01c9d4e1$5246edc0$f6d4c940$@net> Even better would be wiffleball, softball, or shot put. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:58 PM To: 'Marty2'; 'Schurke, Peter'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Maybe a better analogy is 'which can you throw farther, a ping pong ball or a golf ball' ? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Marty2 > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:07 PM > To: 'Schurke, Peter'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > Peter, > > Good initial analogy, but the with and against gravity aspect makes a big > difference as we are all aware. That is why increasing the mass of the > dropped part will increase the speed for all increases while there is an > optimal mass for the rocket. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:32 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > Want proof? Do a quick thought experiment. > > I'm holding in one hand a single sheet of 8 1/2" by 11" piece of paper, > and in the other a Chemistry book whose cover also measures 8 1/2" by > 11". If I drop them both at the same time, the book obviously hits the > floor first. Why? They have the same frontal surface area, but the > book has more mass to push it through the air and overcome drag. > > Now just turn the experiment the other direction, add a couple of rocket > motors, and voila! You have the case of the magic "but I put mass in and > it went higher" rocket! > > I love a teachable opportunity! > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dennis > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'Dennis Winningstad'; 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; > rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > And Rocksim will determine what that optimum weight is for a given > design and motor combo. I've found it interesting that in some cases > increasing the weight of a rocket will make it fly higher! :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:57 AM > To: 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > There is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get you > quicker and quicker, but lower. > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > > ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting > > comfortable > enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really > work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am > thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is > inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, > Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the > skin -- yet they fly just great. > > You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You > **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as > important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. > The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of > structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. > > For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million > pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the > empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density > (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will > find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it > is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is > comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to > something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. > > This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket > by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! > > Eric > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Thu May 14 15:27:34 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:27:34 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Message-ID: Hmmm -- in MY case, the wiffleball would probably win -- I am not exactly a high thrust system. :) -----Original Message----- From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 03:14 PM To: ''Greg Deputy'', ''Schurke, Peter'', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Even better would be wiffleball, softball, or shot put.-----Original Message-----From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:58 PMTo: 'Marty2'; 'Schurke, Peter'; rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: RE: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocketMaybe a better analogy is 'which can you throw farther, a ping pong ball ora golf ball' ?> -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On> Behalf Of Marty2> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:07 PM> To: 'Schurke, Peter'; rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket> > Peter,> > Good initial analogy, but the with and against gravity aspect makes a big> difference as we are all aware. That is why increasing the mass of the> dropped part will increase the speed for all increases while there is an> optimal mass for the rocket.> > Marty> > -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]> On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:32 PM> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket> > Want proof? Do a quick thought experiment.> > I'm holding in one hand a single sheet of 8 1/2" by 11" piece of paper,> and in the other a Chemistry book whose cover also measures 8 1/2" by> 11". If I drop them both at the same time, the book obviously hits the> floor first. Why? They have the same frontal surface area, but the> book has more mass to push it through the air and overcome drag.> > Now just turn the experiment the other direction, add a couple of rocket> motors, and voila! You have the case of the magic "but I put mass in and> it went higher" rocket!> > I love a teachable opportunity!> > Pete> > -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dennis> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:06 PM> To: 'Dennis Winningstad'; 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)';> rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket> > And Rocksim will determine what that optimum weight is for a given> design and motor combo. I've found it interesting that in some cases> increasing the weight of a rocket will make it fly higher! :-)> > -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:57 AM> To: 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket> > There is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get you> quicker and quicker, but lower.> > Dennis S Winningstad> 503-781-3529> > It is bad luck to be superstitious.> -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]> On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket> > > ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote:> > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting> > comfortable> enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really> work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am> thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is> inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA,> Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the> skin -- yet they fly just great.> > You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You> **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as> important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight.> The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of> structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle.> > For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million> pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the> empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density> (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will> find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it> is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is> comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to> something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense.> > This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket> by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2!> > Eric> > > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> > > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> > > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Hmmm -- in MY case, the wiffleball would probably win -- I am not exactly a high thrust system. :) ? -----Original Message----- From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 03:14 PM To: ''Greg Deputy'', ''Schurke, Peter'', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Even better would be wiffleball, softball, or shot put. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:58 PM To: 'Marty2'; 'Schurke, Peter'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Maybe a better analogy is 'which can you throw farther, a ping pong ball or a golf ball' ? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Marty2 > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:07 PM > To: 'Schurke, Peter'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > Peter, > > Good initial analogy, but the with and against gravity aspect makes a big > difference as we are all aware. That is why increasing the mass of the > dropped part will increase the speed for all increases while there is an > optimal mass for the rocket. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:32 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > Want proof? Do a quick thought experiment. > > I'm holding in one hand a single sheet of 8 1/2" by 11" piece of paper, > and in the other a Chemistry book whose cover also measures 8 1/2" by > 11". If I drop them both at the same time, the book obviously hits the > floor first. Why? They have the same frontal surface area, but the > book has more mass to push it through the air and overcome drag. > > Now just turn the experiment the other direction, add a couple of rocket > motors, and voila! You have the case of the magic "but I put mass in and > it went higher" rocket! > > I love a teachable opportunity! > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Michael Dennis > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:06 PM > To: 'Dennis Winningstad'; 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; > rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > And Rocksim will determine what that optimum weight is for a given > design and motor combo. I've found it interesting that in some cases > increasing the weight of a rocket will make it fly higher! :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:57 AM > To: 'Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > There is an optimum weight for height. Lighter and lighter get you > quicker and quicker, but lower. > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:13 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > > ----- "Scott Berfield" wrote: > > No rush. After 3-4 years in this hobby I am finally getting > > comfortable > enough with the status quo to start thinking about how things really > work -- and that usually leads me to all sorts of trouble :) I am > thinking that less material = lighter = higher for less money -- and is > inherently more elegant too. I look at the big boys' toys (NASA, > Defense) and some of them look like you could poke a finger through the > skin -- yet they fly just great. > > You've hit the nail on the head there with your observation. You > **could** poke your finger through the skin in some cases. At least as > important as the total amount of weight is **where** you put the weight. > The more targeted and efficient you can be with your application of > structural mass, the better performance you can expect of the vehicle. > > For example, consider a 747 with a take-off weight of nearly a million > pounds. Half of this is payload (fuel+passengers+cargo). That means the > empty weight is ~500 kips. If you do some rough calculations of density > (total volume/weight) as compared with even a light sports car, you will > find that the airplane is 10 times less dense! And yet, ironically, it > is orders of magnitude safer to travel in than the car. And this is > comparing to a car which is also carefully engineered. If you compare to > something just "thrown together", you could be 30-100 times less dense. > > This does NOT mean that I can help you reduce the weight of your rocket > by a factor of 100. But we can shoot for a factor of 2! > > Eric > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jjcllc03 at aol.com Thu May 14 15:44:08 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:44:08 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Sorry we can't make it to this weekend's launch Message-ID: <8CBA2FCA0733BF6-12E0-1589@webmail-mx06.sysops.aol.com> ? Hi fellow ORocketeers! ? Jack Caynon here.? I was really looking forward to next week's launch but unfortunately, I can't make it due to work commitments.? The same holds true for Dave Holloway as well.? ? Anyway, we'll miss being out in the sage with you and hope to see you all during the June launch.? Good luck and fly high! ? Jack -------------- next part -------------- Hi fellow ORocketeers! ? Jack Caynon here.? I was really looking forward to next week's launch but unfortunately, I can't make it due to work commitments.? The same holds true for Dave Holloway as well.? ? Anyway, we'll miss being out in the sage with you and hope to see you all during the June launch.? Good luck and fly high! ? Jack http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222627952x1201458914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819460%3B36680227%3Bi Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings! From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu May 14 16:18:10 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Anyone ever mess around with Boron Potassium Nitrate (BPN) or Zirconium > Potassium Perchlorate (ZPP) for igniters? The only good reason I've ever found is that both boron and zirconium dust ignite easily/spontaneously with air. But larger particle size takes care of that. Boron and boron compounds are legally prohibited in consumer fireworks. Not sure why other than maybe composition stability problems. I did once make a small number of NC-bound ZPP igniters with ZR flake well under a millimeter. Didn't blow myself up. Worked better than copperheads, not as well as some other igniters. Folks saw these used at Sheridan and Brothers--they'd make a small puff, the rocket would sit on the pad for about a second or two until everybody would think it was a misfire, and then the motor would (usually) light. Wasn't an optimized design, I was just messing around with it, seeing what would happen. Speaking of igniters, I got an ad insert in a fireworks magazine for something called "Solar Flare" igniters. These are advertised as "pure electrical igniters with no pyrogen." They apparently require more current than ematches. I gotta wonder if they maybe just use zirconium wool, you know, flashbulb stuffing without the pure oxygen atmosphere. Anyone have detailed info on these? +McG+ > Anyone ever mess around with Boron Potassium Nitrate (BPN) or Zirconium > Potassium Perchlorate (ZPP) for igniters? ZPP is referred to in various > places as "NASA Standard Initiator" -- which sounds interesting. I fyou > have used this stuff, what were your experiences (other than the > difficulty of finding either boron or zirconium). > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From greg at blastzone.com Thu May 14 16:20:25 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:20:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <1689612607.9130381242338854892.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <247f01c9d4df$1d0a9c80$571fd580$@com> <1689612607.9130381242338854892.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <24b901c9d4ea$9079ffc0$b16dff40$@com> Now you're just being silly. Who throws golf balls and ping pong balls on another planet at absolute zero? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:08 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket > > These kinds of questions are easy to answer because it is the same answer that > applies to all engineering questions: "It depends." > > Are we assuming a standard atmosphere? Are we assuming Earth level > gravitation? Is the density of the air constant (incompressible)? What is the > temperature (everything is solid at absolute zero)? Are you throwing straight > down? Are we assuming that space-time is a constant? Have you eaten beans > today? What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? > > It is surprising how many assumptions we implicitly make without really > thinking about them, and it is not surprising to learn how often these > unspoken assumptions can be wrong for a given situation. At the speeds and > forces of rockets, many of our "common sense" assumptions break down. > > Eric > > > ----- "Greg Deputy" wrote: > > Maybe a better analogy is 'which can you throw farther, a ping pong > > ball or a golf ball' ? > > From greg at bigredbee.com Thu May 14 17:13:07 2009 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:13:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Sorry we can't make it to this weekend's launch In-Reply-To: <8CBA2FCA0733BF6-12E0-1589@webmail-mx06.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBA2FCA0733BF6-12E0-1589@webmail-mx06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: hmph, priorities. On 5/14/09, jjcllc03 at aol.com wrote: > Hi fellow ORocketeers! > > Jack Caynon here. I was really looking forward to next week's launch but unfortunately, I can't make it due to work commitments. The same holds true for Dave Holloway as well. > > Anyway, we'll miss being out in the sage with you and hope to see you all during the June launch. Good luck and fly high! > > Jack > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222627952x1201458914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819460%3B36680227%3Bi Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu May 14 17:21:54 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:21:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0CB5A2.4000006@hawkfeather.com> http://fireworksfx.com/Solar%20Flare/solar_flare_igniters.htm Looks like a bridge wire chip with a connector for QuickMatch that needs direct BP contact. Recent discussion on PyroUniverse: http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19502 Andrew. kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: > > Speaking of igniters, I got an ad insert in a fireworks magazine for > something called "Solar Flare" igniters. These are advertised as "pure > electrical igniters with no pyrogen." They apparently require more > current than ematches. I gotta wonder if they maybe just use zirconium > wool, you know, flashbulb stuffing without the pure oxygen atmosphere. > Anyone have detailed info on these? > +McG+ From jhadv at pacifier.com Thu May 14 18:21:53 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49180.209.253.79.135.1242350513.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> "Anyone ever mess around with Boron Potassium Nitrate (BPN) or Zirconium Potassium Perchlorate (ZPP) for igniters?" Extensively. Forget Zirconium as it is pyrophoric in anyhting smaller than about 100 mesh. Below 250 mesh it has to be stored in a liquid bath and handled remotely in an atmosphere of inert gas. Other than that it's the best material available. Creates almost no gas phase products as the boliing points of the metal and the oxide are both around 5,000 C. KNO3 + B is fairly good stuff. It has a heat of approx 1.5 kcal/g and packs to 3.3 kcal/cc when pellitized. Burns quick and the burn rate is dependent on the pellet shape which is why it is extensively used. By putting KNO3 + B pellets in a basket you can control the loading pressure of the igniter. Larger rockets use pellets about the size and shape of a bayer asprin. To get it below that you would probably have to corn it. Loose as powder it's alright, much hotter than any of the thermites but it goes really quickly and forms a good deal of gas. N2 and K2O. Loose I had problems with it blowing everything out the nozzle. Too much gas. If you are going to be at Brothers find me. I have 3 KNO3 + B pellet igniters built for this launch. For the 38-720 and 38-1080 cases, I used 1 cylindrical pellett (.1875 diameter) weighing .65 gram (about 1/2 inch long). That is more than sufficient for those reloads. Oh you can currently get good boron material from Firefox. It's combiner grade surplus from Jhonston Mathey. From blakbird11 at comcast.net Thu May 14 18:33:14 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 01:33:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <24b901c9d4ea$9079ffc0$b16dff40$@com> Message-ID: <309001932.9209251242351194430.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Maybe a lot of people do and we just don't know about it because they are beyond the event horizon. But you're right, cold aliens seem more likely to enjoy Jai alai or possibly cricket. Eric ----- "Greg Deputy" wrote: > Now you're just being silly. Who throws golf balls and ping pong balls on another planet at absolute zero? > -------------- next part -------------- Maybe a lot of people do and we just don't know about it because they are beyond the event horizon. But you're right, cold aliens seem more likely to enjoy Jai alai or possibly cricket. Eric ----- "Greg Deputy" wrote: > Now you're just being silly. ?Who throws golf balls and ping pong balls on another planet at absolute zero? > From appusher at q.com Thu May 14 19:37:14 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 02:37:14 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list In-Reply-To: <00e601c9d4ad$523ab660$f6b02320$@net> References: <4A0BAA10.9070708@hawkfeather.com> <4A0C3A65.1070503@hawkfeather.com> <00e601c9d4ad$523ab660$f6b02320$@net> Message-ID: Tsolo will be there. EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net > To: andrewm at hawkfeather.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:02:02 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list > > Yep, he'll be there. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 8:36 AM > To: NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list > > What a group! I've got enough case offers to fly a 6 motor cluster ;) > And the ladder & video are covered as well. Does anybody know if T3 will > be there for photos? > > Andrew. > > Andrew MacMillen wrote: > > First off, does anybody have a P38-3G CTI case that I could borrow? Plus > > the delay tool & some time to help? I've never assembled one before. > > I-break-it-I-bought-it. > > > > More importantly, there are a couple of things I could use help with for > > my L3 cert: > > - ladder for the away cell > > - photo & video services > > > > Plz reply off-list. > > > > Thanx, > > Andrew. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- Tsolo will be there. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net > To: andrewm at hawkfeather.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:02:02 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list > > Yep, he'll be there. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 8:36 AM > To: NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list > > What a group! I've got enough case offers to fly a 6 motor cluster ;) > And the ladder & video are covered as well. Does anybody know if T3 will > be there for photos? > > Andrew. > > Andrew MacMillen wrote: > > First off, does anybody have a P38-3G CTI case that I could borrow? Plus > > the delay tool & some time to help? I've never assembled one before. > > I-break-it-I-bought-it. > > > > More importantly, there are a couple of things I could use help with for > > my L3 cert: > > - ladder for the away cell > > - photo & video services > > > > Plz reply off-list. > > > > Thanx, > > Andrew. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dennys at carnitech.net Thu May 14 20:14:29 2009 From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:14:29 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm fwd seal disc In-Reply-To: <4A0CB5A2.4000006@hawkfeather.com> References: , <4A0CB5A2.4000006@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <2D9D8BDE-A7EB-4A97-A453-AD6ED924E146@mimectl> It's me again. Now I'm looking for a 75mm fwd seal disc to borrow at FITS. Ping me if you have a loaner :) -Denny -------------- next part -------------- It's me again.? Now I'm looking for a 75mm fwd seal disc to borrow at FITS.? Ping me if you have a loaner :) ? -Denny ? From t.j.doll at att.net Thu May 14 20:22:37 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 03:22:37 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list Message-ID: <051520090322.4442.4A0CDFFC000EBFC10000115A22230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> >>Tsolo will be there. To add to the other requests, I'd really like a nice liftoff photo of my SHR 1/48 Saturn V Launch. Thanks Tim -------------- next part -------------- >>Tsolo will be there. ? To add to the other requests, I'd really like a nice liftoff photo of my SHR 1/48 Saturn V Launch. ? Thanks ? Tim From blakbird11 at comcast.net Thu May 14 20:33:26 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:33:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS wish list In-Reply-To: <051520090322.4442.4A0CDFFC000EBFC10000115A22230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <051520090322.4442.4A0CDFFC000EBFC10000115A22230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <3A66A995-CE7A-4240-A6F2-6A0FDD7D70C0@comcast.net> Done. I wouldn't miss it. Of course, I can't make the photo any better than the launch itself..... Eric On May 14, 2009, at 8:22 PM, t.j.doll at att.net wrote: >>> Tsolo will be there. > > To add to the other requests, I'd really like a nice liftoff photo > of my SHR 1/48 Saturn V Launch. > > Thanks > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From scott at scottsrockets.com Thu May 14 21:13:08 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:13:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day Message-ID: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2> Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court case. No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -------------- next part -------------- Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court case. No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From fred_bare at yahoo.com Thu May 14 21:24:52 2009 From: fred_bare at yahoo.com (Fred Bare) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] "Solar Flare" igniters Message-ID: <883579.81206.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.monetti.net/solar_flare_igniter_eng.htm -------------- next part -------------- http://www.monetti.net/solar_flare_igniter_eng.htm From scott at scottsrockets.com Fri May 15 08:18:58 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 08:18:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40905150757k79d9e3feta243080d82c22155@mail.gmail.com> References: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2> <6bc920e40905150757k79d9e3feta243080d82c22155@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4013B931CF264FE88708436F0CE002D1@Mobile2> Yea, rocketry planet will likely get it first. I guess they could have awakened to common sense. Not counting on that. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: Dave Randall [mailto:dmrandall at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 7:58 AM To: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day Yep... Watching the web today. I assume rocketryplanet would break the story, and assume that we'd know from this list if anything materializes. Fingers are crossed, rocket is prep'd for celebration. dave On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers wrote: > Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court case. No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? > > Scott T. Bowers > http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From kent.newman at comcast.net Fri May 15 09:05:13 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:05:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather Message-ID: <000301c9d576$eebd2440$cc376cc0$@newman@comcast.net> Hmmm, it appears that the temperature next weekend will be between 72 and 81 during the day and dropping into the 50's at night. Mostly sunny all weekend. Oh, well, we'll just have to muddle through... Kent Newman Washington Aerospace -------------- next part -------------- Hmmm, it appears that the temperature next weekend will be between 72 and 81 during the day and dropping into the 50???s at night. Mostly sunny all weekend. ? Oh, well, we???ll just have to muddle through???.. ? Kent Newman Washington Aerospace From carl at mousetrap.com Fri May 15 09:52:40 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:52:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2> References: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2> Message-ID: Does anybody know what time (including timezone) the appeal needs to be filed by? If the ATF requests a stay of judgment, I assume somebody in the appellate court has to decide whether or not to grant it. How long will that take? Could such a move by the ATF muddy the waters for another extended period while the court figures out who should review the request? - Carl On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers wrote: > Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court case. > No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? > > Scott T. Bowers > http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- If the ATF requests a stay of judgment, I assume somebody in the?appellate?court has to decide whether or not to grant it. How long will that take? Could such a move by the ATF muddy the waters for another extended period while the court figures out who should review the request? ?- Carl On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers < mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com scott at scottsrockets.com > wrote: Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court case. No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ http://www.scottsrockets.com/ http://www.scottsrockets.com www.scottsrockets.com ? ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri May 15 09:58:49 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:58:49 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: References: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2>, Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D14@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> I believe they can file docs up till midnight ET today...... ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Hamilton [carl at mousetrap.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:52 AM To: NW Rocketry mailing list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day Does anybody know what time (including timezone) the appeal needs to be filed by? If the ATF requests a stay of judgment, I assume somebody in the appellate court has to decide whether or not to grant it. How long will that take? Could such a move by the ATF muddy the waters for another extended period while the court figures out who should review the request? - Carl On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers wrote: > Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court case. > No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? > > Scott T. Bowers > http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri May 15 09:59:40 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:59:40 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather In-Reply-To: <000301c9d576$eebd2440$cc376cc0$@newman@comcast.net> References: <000301c9d576$eebd2440$cc376cc0$@newman@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D2A@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> That's just not going to be acceptable! :) ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Kent Newman [kent.newman at comcast.net] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:05 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather Hmmm, it appears that the temperature next weekend will be between 72 and 81 during the day and dropping into the 50's at night. Mostly sunny all weekend. Oh, well, we'll just have to muddle through... Kent Newman Washington Aerospace From rcdm at outlawnet.com Fri May 15 09:59:50 2009 From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:59:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Word to the Wise References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair> <002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$@Dennis42@comcast.net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA9C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><010101c9d4d7$e67e8c00$b37ba400$@net> <247f01c9d4df$1d0a9c80$571fd580$@com> Message-ID: <16D4CEAA571243E4B3B8F7B11E4DCAD6@DANE> Bring sunscreen and hats! Bring sunscreen and hats! Bring sunscreen and hats! There will probably be a few "lobsters" by Sunday afternoon. Rod -------------- next part -------------- Bring sunscreen and hats! Bring sunscreen and hats! Bring sunscreen and hats! ? There will probably be a few "lobsters" by Sunday afternoon. ? Rod From mrrominwa at yahoo.com Fri May 15 10:11:44 2009 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather Message-ID: <254777.9158.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> but what about the wind --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Brad Wright wrote: From: Brad Wright Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather To: "Kent Newman" , "WAC Members" Cc: "Rockets NW list" Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:59 AM That's just not going to be acceptable!? :) ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Kent Newman [kent.newman at comcast.net] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:05 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather Hmmm, it appears that the temperature next weekend will be between 72 and 81 during the day and dropping into the 50's at night.???Mostly sunny all weekend. Oh, well, we'll just have to muddle through... Kent Newman Washington Aerospace _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- but what about the wind --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Brad Wright wrote: From: Brad Wright Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather To: "Kent Newman" , "WAC Members" Cc: "Rockets NW list" Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:59 AM That's just not going to be acceptable!? :) ________________________________________ From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [ http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] on behalf of Kent Newman [ http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kent.newman at comcast.net kent.newman at comcast.net ] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:05 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather Hmmm, it appears that the temperature next weekend will be between 72 and 81 during the day and dropping into the 50's at night.???Mostly sunny all weekend. Oh, well, we'll just have to muddle through... Kent Newman Washington Aerospace _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri May 15 10:21:55 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 17:21:55 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] check this one out!! Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D7D@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/3531410425/in/set-72157617823159021/ -------------- next part -------------- http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/3531410425/in/set-72157617823159021/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/3531410425/in/set-72157617823159021/ From sb at berfield.com Fri May 15 10:36:45 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 17:36:45 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] check this one out!! Message-ID: That is WAY cool. I am watching NASA TV at work today -- it is combining two of my loves -- power tools and space. -----Original Message----- From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:21 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] check this one out!! http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/3531410425/in/set-72157617823159021/ -------------- next part -------------- That is WAY cool. I am watching NASA TV at work today -- it is combining two of my loves -- power tools and space. ? -----Original Message----- From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:21 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] check this one out!! http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/3531410425/in/set-72157617823159021/ From terry at mooreread.com Fri May 15 12:27:40 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 12:27:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D14@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2>, <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D14@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <780ABB33-A218-4A96-8989-A3FFAB645701@mooreread.com> The clerks office closes in a little over a half hour. On May 15, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Brad Wright wrote: > I believe they can file docs up till midnight ET today...... > > ________________________________________ > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > on behalf of Carl Hamilton [carl at mousetrap.com] > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:52 AM > To: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > > Does anybody know what time (including timezone) the appeal needs to > be > filed by? > If the ATF requests a stay of judgment, I assume somebody in > the appellate court has to decide whether or not to grant it. How > long will > that take? Could such a move by the ATF muddy the waters for another > extended period while the court figures out who should review the > request? > > - Carl > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers >wrote: > >> Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court >> case. >> No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmrandall at gmail.com Fri May 15 14:42:15 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:42:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <780ABB33-A218-4A96-8989-A3FFAB645701@mooreread.com> References: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2> <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D14@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> <780ABB33-A218-4A96-8989-A3FFAB645701@mooreread.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905151442p71728576r750e772e7c21f9d8@mail.gmail.com> Tick tock... Anyone seen anything yet? one way or the other? On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Terry Moore-Read wrote: > The clerks office closes in a little over a half hour. > > On May 15, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Brad Wright wrote: > >> I believe they can file docs up till midnight ET today...... >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> on behalf of Carl Hamilton [carl at mousetrap.com] >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:52 AM >> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> Does anybody know what time (including timezone) the appeal needs to >> be >> filed by? >> If the ATF requests a stay of judgment, I assume somebody in >> the appellate court has to decide whether or not to grant it. How >> long will >> that take? Could such a move by the ATF muddy the waters for another >> extended period while the court figures out who should review the >> request? >> >> - Carl >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers > >wrote: >> >>> Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court >>> case. >>> No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From carl at mousetrap.com Fri May 15 15:02:01 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:02:01 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <780ABB33-A218-4A96-8989-A3FFAB645701@mooreread.com> References: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2> <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D14@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> <780ABB33-A218-4A96-8989-A3FFAB645701@mooreread.com> Message-ID: Will this system, http://www.uscourts.gov/cmecf/cmecf_about.html, allow the ATF to file an appeal after the clerk's office has closed, giving them until midnight (in some timezone) as Brad suggested? - Carl On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Terry Moore-Read wrote: > The clerks office closes in a little over a half hour. > > > On May 15, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Brad Wright wrote: > > I believe they can file docs up till midnight ET today...... >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on >> behalf of Carl Hamilton [carl at mousetrap.com] >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:52 AM >> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> Does anybody know what time (including timezone) the appeal needs to be >> filed by? >> If the ATF requests a stay of judgment, I assume somebody in >> the appellate court has to decide whether or not to grant it. How long >> will >> that take? Could such a move by the ATF muddy the waters for another >> extended period while the court figures out who should review the request? >> >> - Carl >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers > >wrote: >> >> Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court case. >>> No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- http://www.uscourts.gov/cmecf/cmecf_about.html http://www.uscourts.gov/cmecf/cmecf_about.html , allow the ATF to file an appeal after the clerk's office has closed, giving them until midnight (in some timezone) as Brad suggested? ?- Carl On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Terry Moore-Read < mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com > wrote: The clerks office closes in a little over a half hour. On May 15, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Brad Wright wrote: I believe they can file docs up till midnight ET today...... ________________________________________ From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [ mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] on behalf of Carl Hamilton [ mailto:carl at mousetrap.com carl at mousetrap.com ] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:52 AM To: NW Rocketry mailing list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day Does anybody know what time (including timezone) the appeal needs to be filed by? If the ATF requests a stay of judgment, I assume somebody in the appellate court has to decide whether or not to grant it. How long will that take? Could such a move by the ATF muddy the waters for another extended period while the court figures out who should review the request? - Carl On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers < mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com scott at scottsrockets.com >wrote: Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court case. No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ http://www.scottsrockets.com/ http://www.scottsrockets.com www.scottsrockets.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jpr602 at mac.com Fri May 15 14:04:53 2009 From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:04:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Word to the Wise In-Reply-To: <16D4CEAA571243E4B3B8F7B11E4DCAD6@DANE> References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair> <002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$%Dennis42@comcast.net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA9C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <010101c9d4d7$e67e8c00$b37ba400$@net> <247f01c9d4df$1d0a9c80$571fd580$@com> <16D4CEAA571243E4B3B8F7B11E4DCAD6@DANE> Message-ID: On May 15, 2009, at 9:59, Moorehead wrote: > > > There will probably be a few "lobsters" by Sunday afternoon. > I predict: Krausert From terry at mooreread.com Fri May 15 15:19:39 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:19:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: References: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2> <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D14@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> <780ABB33-A218-4A96-8989-A3FFAB645701@mooreread.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action or not - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be served on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. On May 15, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > Will this system, http://www.uscourts.gov/cmecf/cmecf_about.html, > allow the ATF to file an appeal after the clerk's office has closed, > giving them until midnight (in some timezone) as Brad suggested? > > - Carl > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Terry Moore-Read > wrote: > The clerks office closes in a little over a half hour. > > > On May 15, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Brad Wright wrote: > > I believe they can file docs up till midnight ET today...... > > ________________________________________ > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > on behalf of Carl Hamilton [carl at mousetrap.com] > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:52 AM > To: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > > Does anybody know what time (including timezone) the appeal needs to > be > filed by? > If the ATF requests a stay of judgment, I assume somebody in > the appellate court has to decide whether or not to grant it. How > long will > that take? Could such a move by the ATF muddy the waters for another > extended period while the court figures out who should review the > request? > > - Carl > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers >wrote: > > Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court > case. > No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? > > Scott T. Bowers > http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > -------------- next part -------------- I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action or not - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be served on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. On May 15, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Carl Hamilton wrote: Will this system,? http://www.uscourts.gov/cmecf/cmecf_about.html http://www.uscourts.gov/cmecf/cmecf_about.html , allow the ATF to file an appeal after the clerk's office has closed, giving them until midnight (in some timezone) as Brad suggested? ?- Carl On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Terry Moore-Read < mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com > wrote: The clerks office closes in a little over a half hour. On May 15, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Brad Wright wrote: I believe they can file docs up till midnight ET today...... ________________________________________ From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [ mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] on behalf of Carl Hamilton [ mailto:carl at mousetrap.com carl at mousetrap.com ] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:52 AM To: NW Rocketry mailing list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day Does anybody know what time (including timezone) the appeal needs to be filed by? If the ATF requests a stay of judgment, I assume somebody in the appellate court has to decide whether or not to grant it. How long will that take? Could such a move by the ATF muddy the waters for another extended period while the court figures out who should review the request? - Carl On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Scott T Bowers < mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com scott at scottsrockets.com >wrote: Tomorrow is the end of the 60 day period to file in the BATFE court case. No word yet. Anyone else a little on edge? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ http://www.scottsrockets.com/ http://www.scottsrockets.com www.scottsrockets.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Fri May 15 15:23:15 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:23:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: References: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2> <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D14@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> <780ABB33-A218-4A96-8989-A3FFAB645701@mooreread.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read wrote: > I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action or not > - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be served on > the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. > So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli representatives were "out of town" right now? - Carl -------------- next part -------------- On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read < mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com > wrote: I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action or not - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be served on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli representatives were "out of town" right now? ?- Carl From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Fri May 15 16:04:37 2009 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:04:37 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] FITS Weather In-Reply-To: <254777.9158.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <254777.9158.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Uh....what wi......nevermind. I'M not gonna say it. Kinda like the f---s we never had in April. :) Mark Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:11:44 -0700 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com To: kent.newman at comcast.net; members at washingtonaerospace.org; bradwr at wrightholdings.com CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] [RocketsNW] FITS Weather but what about the wind --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Brad Wright wrote: From: Brad Wright Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather To: "Kent Newman" , "WAC Members" Cc: "Rockets NW list" Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:59 AM That's just not going to be acceptable! :) ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Kent Newman [kent.newman at comcast.net] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:05 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather Hmmm, it appears that the temperature next weekend will be between 72 and 81 during the day and dropping into the 50's at night. Mostly sunny all weekend. Oh, well, we'll just have to muddle through... Kent Newman Washington Aerospace _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 -------------- next part -------------- Uh....what wi......nevermind. I'M not gonna say it. Kinda like the f---s we never had in April. :) ? Mark ? Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:11:44 -0700 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com To: kent.newman at comcast.net; members at washingtonaerospace.org; bradwr at wrightholdings.com CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] [RocketsNW] FITS Weather but what about the wind --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Brad Wright wrote: From: Brad Wright Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather To: "Kent Newman" , "WAC Members" Cc: "Rockets NW list" Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:59 AM That's just not going to be acceptable!? :) ________________________________________ From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [ http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] on behalf of Kent Newman [ http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kent.newman at comcast.net kent.newman at comcast.net ] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:05 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather Hmmm, it appears that the temperature next weekend will be between 72 and 81 during the day and dropping into the 50's at night.???Mostly sunny all weekend. Oh, well, we'll just have to muddle through... Kent Newman Washington Aerospace _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 Check it out. From jpr602 at mac.com Fri May 15 17:45:14 2009 From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 17:45:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] BigRedBee needs a file Message-ID: <7220F0C9-8622-4190-98EC-53A8A1066DD4@mac.com> Greg of BigRedBee needs a file called configurator.zip which can be downloaded from http://bigredbee.com/docs/BLGPS/ If you can put it on a thumb drive and bring it to Brothers, that would be swell. [from my iPhone] From scott at scottsrockets.com Fri May 15 18:54:07 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 18:54:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: References: <4289F839A0744B7494A85C5B9DCBDD2B@Mobile2><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990D9D14@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com><780ABB33-A218-4A96-8989-A3FFAB645701@mooreread.com> Message-ID: <1EDA01DA870D45388F93E032040B6762@Mobile2> There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very unsubstantiated though. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM To: Terry Moore-Read Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read wrote: > I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action or > not > - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be served > on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. > So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli representatives were "out of town" right now? - Carl From absworld at cet.com Fri May 15 20:06:22 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:06:22 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather In-Reply-To: <254777.9158.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <254777.9158.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01af01c9d5d3$4acaf300$e060d900$@com> And the ticks And the H----y, I mean excited lizards -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of dave woodard Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:12 AM To: Kent Newman; WAC Members; Brad Wright Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather but what about the wind --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Brad Wright wrote: From: Brad Wright Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather To: "Kent Newman" , "WAC Members" Cc: "Rockets NW list" Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:59 AM That's just not going to be acceptable!? :) ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Kent Newman [kent.newman at comcast.net] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:05 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather Hmmm, it appears that the temperature next weekend will be between 72 and 81 during the day and dropping into the 50's at night.???Mostly sunny all weekend. Oh, well, we'll just have to muddle through... Kent Newman Washington Aerospace _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.31/2116 - Release Date: 05/15/09 06:16:00 From scott at scottsrockets.com Fri May 15 20:25:00 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:25:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> Well, even if there is no filing I wouldn't start selling AP over the counter until legal gives us guidance. We don't know if they filed, or if not, how we should proceed. The BATFE still has the rocketry faqs up. It has been years, a few days wont kill us. http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com _____ From: Larry Colvin [mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:06 PM To: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day Why aren't we hearing anything from our organizations? I'm a dealer and I want to sell without atf licensing requirements tomorrow at the OROC launch. And because we have had no communication from NAR or Tripoli since March 18th, I can't. So many fliers will be bummed. I really thought our organizations would give more info as the deadline approached, and then give the go-ahead late today. Does anyone know why they are so mum? Can't even be contacted. It's 11PM Eastern, and all we have is rumors. Larry Colvin Bend, OR ATF License holder for Sunriver Nature Center --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: From: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day To: "'Carl Hamilton'" , "'Terry Moore-Read'" Cc: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:54 PM There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very unsubstantiated though. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM To: Terry Moore-Read Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read < MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be terry at mooreread.com>wrote: > I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action or > not > - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be served > on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. > So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli representatives were "out of town" right now? - Carl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Well, even if there is no filing I wouldn't start selling AP over the counter until legal gives us guidance. We don't know if they filed, or if not, how we should proceed. The BATFE still has the rocketry faqs up. It has been years, a few days wont kill us. ? http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From: Larry Colvin [mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:06 PM To: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day Why aren't we hearing anything from our organizations?? I'm a dealer and I want to sell without atf licensing requirements tomorrow at the OROC launch.? And because we have had no communication from NAR or Tripoli since March 18th, I can't.? So many fliers will be bummed. ? I really thought our organizations would give more info as the deadline approached, and then give the go-ahead late today.? Does anyone know why they are so mum?? Can't even be contacted.? It's 11PM Eastern, and all we have is rumors. ? Larry Colvin Bend, OR ATF License holder for Sunriver Nature Center --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: From: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day To: "'Carl Hamilton'" , "'Terry Moore-Read'" Cc: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:54 PM There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very unsubstantiated though. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM To: Terry Moore-Read Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read < http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=terry at mooreread.com MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be terry at mooreread.com >wrote: > I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action or > not > - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be served > on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. > So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli representatives were "out of town" right now? - Carl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From appusher at q.com Fri May 15 21:56:42 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 04:56:42 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> Message-ID: Business as usual until we are notified by the legal eagles. nothing has changed until it's changed. We will be requiring permits for pre-order sales and at FITS until further notice. As soon as we find out anything we will be the first to post. Dave and Bill @ Puget Sound Propulsion EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:25:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > > Well, even if there is no filing I wouldn't start selling AP over the > counter until legal gives us guidance. We don't know if they filed, or if > not, how we should proceed. The BATFE still has the rocketry faqs up. It has > been years, a few days wont kill us. > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > _____ > > From: Larry Colvin [mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:06 PM > To: Scott T Bowers > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > > > > Why aren't we hearing anything from our organizations? I'm a dealer and I > want to sell without atf licensing requirements tomorrow at the OROC launch. > And because we have had no communication from NAR or Tripoli since March > 18th, I can't. So many fliers will be bummed. > > I really thought our organizations would give more info as the deadline > approached, and then give the go-ahead late today. Does anyone know why > they are so mum? Can't even be contacted. It's 11PM Eastern, and all we > have is rumors. > > Larry Colvin > Bend, OR > ATF License holder for Sunriver Nature Center > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: > > > > From: Scott T Bowers > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > To: "'Carl Hamilton'" , "'Terry Moore-Read'" > > Cc: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" > Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:54 PM > > > There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very > unsubstantiated though. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: > > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from > "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto: > > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from > "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM > To: Terry Moore-Read > Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read > < > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from > "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be terry at mooreread.com>wrote: > > > I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action or > > not > > - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be served > > on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. > > > > So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli representatives > were "out of town" right now? > > - Carl > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from > "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > -------------- next part -------------- Business as usual until we are notified by the legal eagles. nothing has changed until it's changed. ? We will be requiring permits for pre-order sales and at FITS until further notice. As soon as we find out anything we will be the first to post. ? Dave and Bill @ Puget Sound Propulsion http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:25:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > > Well, even if there is no filing I wouldn't start selling AP over the > counter until legal gives us guidance. We don't know if they filed, or if > not, how we should proceed. The BATFE still has the rocketry faqs up. It has > been years, a few days wont kill us. > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > _____ > > From: Larry Colvin [mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:06 PM > To: Scott T Bowers > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > > > > Why aren't we hearing anything from our organizations? I'm a dealer and I > want to sell without atf licensing requirements tomorrow at the OROC launch. > And because we have had no communication from NAR or Tripoli since March > 18th, I can't. So many fliers will be bummed. > > I really thought our organizations would give more info as the deadline > approached, and then give the go-ahead late today. Does anyone know why > they are so mum? Can't even be contacted. It's 11PM Eastern, and all we > have is rumors. > > Larry Colvin > Bend, OR > ATF License holder for Sunriver Nature Center > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: > > > > From: Scott T Bowers > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > To: "'Carl Hamilton'" , "'Terry Moore-Read'" > > Cc: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" > Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:54 PM > > > There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very > unsubstantiated though. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: > > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from > "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto: > > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from > "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM > To: Terry Moore-Read > Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read > < > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from > "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be terry at mooreread.com>wrote: > > > I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action or > > not > > - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be served > > on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. > > > > So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli representatives > were "out of town" right now? > > - Carl > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from > "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat May 16 11:46:24 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials In-Reply-To: <4A0CB5A2.4000006@hawkfeather.com> References: <4A0CB5A2.4000006@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: Shoot. Nothing of interest to rocketeers there. I was hoping maybe they had figured a way to cascade burning from a little bridge wire or something. Use air as the oxidizer, no pyrogen present. I couldn't tell anything from looking at the pics and info on their web site. +McG+ > http://fireworksfx.com/Solar%20Flare/solar_flare_igniters.htm > Looks like a bridge wire chip with a connector for QuickMatch that needs > direct BP contact. > > Recent discussion on PyroUniverse: > http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19502 > > Andrew. > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: >> >> Speaking of igniters, I got an ad insert in a fireworks magazine for >> something called "Solar Flare" igniters. These are advertised as "pure >> electrical igniters with no pyrogen." They apparently require more >> current than ematches. I gotta wonder if they maybe just use zirconium >> wool, you know, flashbulb stuffing without the pure oxygen atmosphere. >> Anyone have detailed info on these? >> +McG+ > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Sat May 16 12:07:26 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:07:26 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm Aft Closure Diffs Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990DBF54@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> So I have two 98mm aft closures for commercial 98mm motors. One is a Monster Motor and another is the goldone (not sure if it's AT or Dr Rockets). The center openning is considerably larger on the gold one vs. the Monster Motors. I seem to remember something about accomodating newer nozzles but can't remember the specifics. Anyone recall??? thx! Brad -------------- next part -------------- So I have two 98mm aft closures for commercial 98mm motors.? One is a Monster Motor and another is the goldone (not sure if it's AT or Dr Rockets).? The center openning is considerably larger on the gold one vs. the Monster Motors.? I seem to remember something about accomodating newer nozzles but can't remember the specifics.? Anyone recall??? ? thx! Brad ? From terry at mooreread.com Sat May 16 13:33:07 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 13:33:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> Message-ID: The problem for the Legal Eagles is individual members are not their clients so they're going to steer clear of giving more than general advice, their insurers would have a cow otherwise. I'm sure the manufacturers are consulting their own counsel to figure out a way forward from here. We'll probably get a general statement saying the ATF window of opportunity to appeal has passed. The ATF is only compelled by statute to publish an explosives list once per year - so we may be waiting until next year if we're looking for some positive action from them. The judges order removed it from the current list and the ATF can sit back and let the situation be ambiguous as long as they don't directly violate the order by threatening enforcement action. The more I think about an appeal, the more trouble I have figuring out what they can really appeal. Not liking the result is not grounds. They already lost the same argument before the appeals court and going back there having failed to follow the instructions from last time would likely not be good for them. They would also likely have to show a reasonable chance of victory and a risk of substantial harm in order to obtain an emergency stay from the court. I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. On May 15, 2009, at 9:56 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > Business as usual until we are notified by the legal eagles. > nothing has changed until it's changed. > > We will be requiring permits for pre-order sales and at FITS until > further notice. > As soon as we find out anything we will be the first to post. > > Dave and Bill @ Puget Sound Propulsion > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > >> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:25:00 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> Well, even if there is no filing I wouldn't start selling AP over the >> counter until legal gives us guidance. We don't know if they filed, >> or if >> not, how we should proceed. The BATFE still has the rocketry faqs >> up. It has >> been years, a few days wont kill us. >> >> http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: Larry Colvin [mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com] >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: Scott T Bowers >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> >> >> Why aren't we hearing anything from our organizations? I'm a dealer >> and I >> want to sell without atf licensing requirements tomorrow at the >> OROC launch. >> And because we have had no communication from NAR or Tripoli since >> March >> 18th, I can't. So many fliers will be bummed. >> >> I really thought our organizations would give more info as the >> deadline >> approached, and then give the go-ahead late today. Does anyone know >> why >> they are so mum? Can't even be contacted. It's 11PM Eastern, and >> all we >> have is rumors. >> >> Larry Colvin >> Bend, OR >> ATF License holder for Sunriver Nature Center >> >> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: >> >> >> >> From: Scott T Bowers >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> To: "'Carl Hamilton'" , "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> >> Cc: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" >> Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:54 PM >> >> >> There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very >> unsubstantiated though. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: >> > > >> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets- >> bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto: >> > > >> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM >> To: Terry Moore-Read >> Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read >> < >> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be terry at mooreread.com>wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new >>> action or >>> not >>> - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be >>> served >>> on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. >>> >> >> So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli >> representatives >> were "out of town" right now? >> >> - Carl >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> >> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Sat May 16 13:33:10 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 20:33:10 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials In-Reply-To: References: <4A0CB5A2.4000006@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: There'a a really good article on MF Ignitors in the new Sport Rocketry magazine that covers clusters mostly. Very detailed. The guy did quite extensive and detailed testing with notes. I want to do some clustering, airstarts, and staging this year so it was informative for me. Take a look if this your area of flight this year. Bill @ PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:46:24 -0700 > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials > > Shoot. Nothing of interest to rocketeers there. I was hoping maybe they > had figured a way to cascade burning from a little bridge wire or > something. Use air as the oxidizer, no pyrogen present. > > I couldn't tell anything from looking at the pics and info on their web site. > +McG+ > > > > http://fireworksfx.com/Solar%20Flare/solar_flare_igniters.htm > > Looks like a bridge wire chip with a connector for QuickMatch that needs > > direct BP contact. > > > > Recent discussion on PyroUniverse: > > http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19502 > > > > Andrew. > > > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: > >> > >> Speaking of igniters, I got an ad insert in a fireworks magazine for > >> something called "Solar Flare" igniters. These are advertised as "pure > >> electrical igniters with no pyrogen." They apparently require more > >> current than ematches. I gotta wonder if they maybe just use zirconium > >> wool, you know, flashbulb stuffing without the pure oxygen atmosphere. > >> Anyone have detailed info on these? > >> +McG+ > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- There'a a really good article on MF Ignitors in the new Sport Rocketry magazine that covers clusters mostly.? Very detailed.? The guy did quite extensive and detailed testing with notes. I want to do some clustering, airstarts, and staging this year so it was informative for me. ? Take a look if this your area of flight this year. ? Bill @ PSP http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:46:24 -0700 > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials > > Shoot. Nothing of interest to rocketeers there. I was hoping maybe they > had figured a way to cascade burning from a little bridge wire or > something. Use air as the oxidizer, no pyrogen present. > > I couldn't tell anything from looking at the pics and info on their web site. > +McG+ > > > > http://fireworksfx.com/Solar%20Flare/solar_flare_igniters.htm > > Looks like a bridge wire chip with a connector for QuickMatch that needs > > direct BP contact. > > > > Recent discussion on PyroUniverse: > > http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19502 > > > > Andrew. > > > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: > >> > >> Speaking of igniters, I got an ad insert in a fireworks magazine for > >> something called "Solar Flare" igniters. These are advertised as "pure > >> electrical igniters with no pyrogen." They apparently require more > >> current than ematches. I gotta wonder if they maybe just use zirconium > >> wool, you know, flashbulb stuffing without the pure oxygen atmosphere. > >> Anyone have detailed info on these? > >> +McG+ > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Sat May 16 14:23:32 2009 From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 17:23:32 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm Aft Closure Diffs Message-ID: Brad, The gold one is probably an AT closure and it is for the new long burn 98s. M750W and the N1000W. Don't know if the N1000 is ready for production yet since they had some problems with demo motors blistering the case. Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) -------------- next part -------------- Brad, The gold one is probably an AT closure and it is for the new long burn 98s.? M750W and the N1000W.? Don't know if the N1000 is ready for production yet since they had some problems with demo motors blistering the case. Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) From scott at scottsrockets.com Sat May 16 14:46:03 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:46:03 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> Message-ID: <2DD1BEB8F9944B84B2122349BD5E5DC6@Mobile2> Well, what I have heard is mostly hearsay, but my bet is the ATF dropped it. There are just too many stories from credible sources saying the ATF did not intend to appeal. I am betting the manufacturers already have their new policy written and ready to go. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: Terry Moore-Read [mailto:terry at mooreread.com] Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:33 PM To: Bill Munds Cc: Scott T. Bowers; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day The problem for the Legal Eagles is individual members are not their clients so they're going to steer clear of giving more than general advice, their insurers would have a cow otherwise. I'm sure the manufacturers are consulting their own counsel to figure out a way forward from here. We'll probably get a general statement saying the ATF window of opportunity to appeal has passed. The ATF is only compelled by statute to publish an explosives list once per year - so we may be waiting until next year if we're looking for some positive action from them. The judges order removed it from the current list and the ATF can sit back and let the situation be ambiguous as long as they don't directly violate the order by threatening enforcement action. The more I think about an appeal, the more trouble I have figuring out what they can really appeal. Not liking the result is not grounds. They already lost the same argument before the appeals court and going back there having failed to follow the instructions from last time would likely not be good for them. They would also likely have to show a reasonable chance of victory and a risk of substantial harm in order to obtain an emergency stay from the court. I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. On May 15, 2009, at 9:56 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > Business as usual until we are notified by the legal eagles. > nothing has changed until it's changed. > > We will be requiring permits for pre-order sales and at FITS until > further notice. > As soon as we find out anything we will be the first to post. > > Dave and Bill @ Puget Sound Propulsion > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > >> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:25:00 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> Well, even if there is no filing I wouldn't start selling AP over the >> counter until legal gives us guidance. We don't know if they filed, >> or if not, how we should proceed. The BATFE still has the rocketry >> faqs up. It has been years, a few days wont kill us. >> >> http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: Larry Colvin [mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com] >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: Scott T Bowers >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> >> >> Why aren't we hearing anything from our organizations? I'm a dealer >> and I want to sell without atf licensing requirements tomorrow at the >> OROC launch. >> And because we have had no communication from NAR or Tripoli since >> March 18th, I can't. So many fliers will be bummed. >> >> I really thought our organizations would give more info as the >> deadline approached, and then give the go-ahead late today. Does >> anyone know why they are so mum? Can't even be contacted. It's 11PM >> Eastern, and all we have is rumors. >> >> Larry Colvin >> Bend, OR >> ATF License holder for Sunriver Nature Center >> >> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: >> >> >> >> From: Scott T Bowers >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> To: "'Carl Hamilton'" , "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> >> Cc: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" >> Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:54 PM >> >> >> There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very >> unsubstantiated though. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: >> > nw.com >> > >> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets- >> bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto: >> > nw.com >> > >> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton >> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM >> To: Terry Moore-Read >> Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read < >> >> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be terry at mooreread.com>wrote: >> >>> I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action >>> or not >>> - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be >>> served on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. >>> >> >> So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli >> representatives were "out of town" right now? >> >> - Carl >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> >> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Sat May 16 15:24:05 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:24:05 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm Aft Closure Diffs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990DC081@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> Can it be used with all the regular motors/nozzles as well??? From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:24 PM To: Brad Wright; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 98mm Aft Closure Diffs Brad, The gold one is probably an AT closure and it is for the new long burn 98s. M750W and the N1000W. Don't know if the N1000 is ready for production yet since they had some problems with demo motors blistering the case. Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) -------------- next part -------------- Can it be used with all the regular motors/nozzles as well??? ? From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:24 PM To: Brad Wright; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 98mm Aft Closure Diffs ? Brad, The gold one is probably an AT closure and it is for the new long burn 98s.? M750W and the N1000W.? Don't know if the N1000 is ready for production yet since they had some problems with demo motors blistering the case. Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Sat May 16 15:25:38 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:25:38 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Looking for a CTI I-350SS Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990DC096@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> Folks! Looks like my personal inventory was off. Does anyone happen to have an extra CTI I-350SS motor they would be willing to part with? I was planning on a 4 motor cluster in the Ultimate Endeavor at FITS and it won't do too well missing one of the 38mm's. (I don't need the case just the motor) thx! Brad -------------- next part -------------- Folks! ? Looks like my personal inventory was off.? Does anyone happen to have an extra CTI I-350SS motor they would be willing to part with?? I was planning on a 4 motor cluster in the Ultimate Endeavor at FITS and it won't do too well missing one of the 38mm's.??? (I don't need the case just the motor) ? thx! Brad ? From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Sat May 16 15:54:11 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:54:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com><79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B08@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> TARC 2009 is now in the books and the Northwest did pretty well. Overcast and slightly rainy all morning, the kids were feeling right at home. Ingraham High School Team 1 (Alpha Team) did not fly as well as they wanted, reaching only 690 feet and flying several seconds short. Their score and place shall not be mentioned here to protect the fragile young egos of some previously cocky seniors. Team 3 (Charlie Team) had a near perfect flight, scoring 7.52 and putting them in sixth place going into the flyoff round! Team 2 (Bravo Team) came heartbreakingly close to the top twenty and the flyoff, scoring 23.12 points and finishing somewhere in the neighborhood of 22 or 23rd place. In the flyoff, winds kicked up considerably and the sun came out, really heating things up. Charlie team had a perfectly straight boost, just a little too high. 787 feet and just a shade over 45 seconds. They ended up finishing in 7th place, bringing home a trophy and earning themselves a chance to participate in NASA's Student Launch Initiative next year! Proud as I can possibly be of them! Thanks to all who supported the students this year!!!!! Pete Schurke Teacher and Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School Seattle, WA From scott at scottsrockets.com Sat May 16 16:59:11 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:59:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B08@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com><79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B08@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <15D6CEE75D7D44018B95707B8803B358@Mobile2> Good job! Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:54 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT TARC 2009 is now in the books and the Northwest did pretty well. Overcast and slightly rainy all morning, the kids were feeling right at home. Ingraham High School Team 1 (Alpha Team) did not fly as well as they wanted, reaching only 690 feet and flying several seconds short. Their score and place shall not be mentioned here to protect the fragile young egos of some previously cocky seniors. Team 3 (Charlie Team) had a near perfect flight, scoring 7.52 and putting them in sixth place going into the flyoff round! Team 2 (Bravo Team) came heartbreakingly close to the top twenty and the flyoff, scoring 23.12 points and finishing somewhere in the neighborhood of 22 or 23rd place. In the flyoff, winds kicked up considerably and the sun came out, really heating things up. Charlie team had a perfectly straight boost, just a little too high. 787 feet and just a shade over 45 seconds. They ended up finishing in 7th place, bringing home a trophy and earning themselves a chance to participate in NASA's Student Launch Initiative next year! Proud as I can possibly be of them! Thanks to all who supported the students this year!!!!! Pete Schurke Teacher and Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School Seattle, WA _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Sat May 16 18:15:21 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 01:15:21 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT In-Reply-To: <15D6CEE75D7D44018B95707B8803B358@Mobile2> References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com><79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B08@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <15D6CEE75D7D44018B95707B8803B358@Mobile2> Message-ID: Impressive finish for the young students of Ingraham High School. Congratulations !! Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: pmschurke at seattleschools.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:59:11 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT > > Good job! > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:54 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT > > TARC 2009 is now in the books and the Northwest did pretty well. > > Overcast and slightly rainy all morning, the kids were feeling right at > home. > > Ingraham High School Team 1 (Alpha Team) did not fly as well as they > wanted, reaching only 690 feet and flying several seconds short. Their > score and place shall not be mentioned here to protect the fragile young > egos of some previously cocky seniors. > > Team 3 (Charlie Team) had a near perfect flight, scoring 7.52 and putting > them in sixth place going into the flyoff round! > > Team 2 (Bravo Team) came heartbreakingly close to the top twenty and the > flyoff, scoring 23.12 points and finishing somewhere in the neighborhood of > 22 or 23rd place. > > In the flyoff, winds kicked up considerably and the sun came out, really > heating things up. > > Charlie team had a perfectly straight boost, just a little too high. 787 > feet and just a shade over 45 seconds. They ended up finishing in 7th > place, bringing home a trophy and earning themselves a chance to participate > in NASA's Student Launch Initiative next year! > > Proud as I can possibly be of them! Thanks to all who supported the > students this year!!!!! > > Pete Schurke > Teacher and Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > Seattle, WA > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- Impressive finish for the young students of Ingraham High School. ? Congratulations !! ? mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: pmschurke at seattleschools.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 16:59:11 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT > > Good job! > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:54 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT > > TARC 2009 is now in the books and the Northwest did pretty well. > > Overcast and slightly rainy all morning, the kids were feeling right at > home. > > Ingraham High School Team 1 (Alpha Team) did not fly as well as they > wanted, reaching only 690 feet and flying several seconds short. Their > score and place shall not be mentioned here to protect the fragile young > egos of some previously cocky seniors. > > Team 3 (Charlie Team) had a near perfect flight, scoring 7.52 and putting > them in sixth place going into the flyoff round! > > Team 2 (Bravo Team) came heartbreakingly close to the top twenty and the > flyoff, scoring 23.12 points and finishing somewhere in the neighborhood of > 22 or 23rd place. > > In the flyoff, winds kicked up considerably and the sun came out, really > heating things up. > > Charlie team had a perfectly straight boost, just a little too high. 787 > feet and just a shade over 45 seconds. They ended up finishing in 7th > place, bringing home a trophy and earning themselves a chance to participate > in NASA's Student Launch Initiative next year! > > Proud as I can possibly be of them! Thanks to all who supported the > students this year!!!!! > > Pete Schurke > Teacher and Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > Seattle, WA > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Sat May 16 19:06:42 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:06:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] FITS Weather In-Reply-To: <965354.77348.qm@web59207.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <965354.77348.qm@web59207.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009c01c9d694$202be020$6083a060$@net> Thad, Generally a very easy retrofit. One piece button can by glued to the airframe just like the launch lugs. However, they are generally had from some fairly slippery plastic the surface needs to be roughed up to get adhesion (and even then it is sometimes not that good). It is better to use the ones with a central screw that can be placed in a drilled and tapped hole in the airframe. Ideally this is into a bulkhead or centering ring, but straight into a faiberglass or even phenolic airframe works (I suggest a little CA to lock the screw into phenoloc). It can also be into a plate inside a thinner airframe. Just make sure that the plate is either low enough to not interfere with the recovery system or smooth enough so the recovery can glide over it (been there, done that the wrong way). You can build the plate like area in a sealed tube by drilling a small hole, injecting some epoxy with the hole facing down, and covering the hole with tape until the epoxy hardens. Then drill and tap. Marty -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of please_96 at yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 6:24 PM To: Kent Newman; WAC Members; Brad Wright; dave woodard Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] [RocketsNW] FITS Weather I have couple of construction questions. Can I covert from launch lugs and install rail buttons? I was thinking it wouldn't work since the rocket is already build. Let me know what you think. Thad --- On Fri, 5/15/09, dave woodard wrote: > From: dave woodard > Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] [RocketsNW] FITS Weather > To: "Kent Newman" , "WAC Members" , "Brad Wright" > Cc: "Rockets NW list" > Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 10:11 AM > but > what about the wind > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Brad Wright > wrote: > > > From: Brad Wright > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather > To: "Kent Newman" > , "WAC Members" > > Cc: "Rockets NW list" > > Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:59 AM > > > That's just not going to be > acceptable!? :) > > ________________________________________ > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > on behalf of Kent Newman [kent.newman at comcast.net] > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:05 AM > To: WAC Members > Cc: Rockets NW list > Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Weather > > Hmmm, it appears that the temperature next weekend will be > between 72 and 81 > during the day and dropping into the 50's at > night.???Mostly sunny all > weekend. > > > > Oh, well, we'll >? just have to muddle through... > > > > Kent Newman > > Washington Aerospace > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > > > >? ? ??? > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > members mailing list > members at washingtonaerospace.org > http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace. org > _______________________________________________ members mailing list members at washingtonaerospace.org http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace. org From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Sun May 17 00:24:45 2009 From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 03:24:45 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm Aft Closure Diffs Message-ID: I would assume so. When they went to the enlarged aft closure on the 38s they just stopped production of the original smaller size. I would think that is what they are doing with the 98s. Best bet is to ask AT. They have been quick to respond to my inquiries. ************** A strong credit score is 700 or above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585011x1201462751/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm /default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd=Maystrongfooter51709NO115) -------------- next part -------------- I would assume so.? When they went to the enlarged aft closure on the 38s they just stopped production of the original smaller size.? I would think that is what they are doing with the 98s.? Best bet is to ask AT.? They have been quick to respond to my inquiries. ************** A strong credit score is 700 or above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585011x1201462751/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd=Maystrongfooter51709NO115) From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun May 17 00:41:40 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 00:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials In-Reply-To: References: <4A0CB5A2.4000006@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <7ca9d9fa2c780456f960c3a630c21454.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> I have several rocket kits that use or really should use clusters. Unfortunately, that's all on indefinite hold. But I'll file this bit of info away. My main thrust this year has got to be using up my three J210H hybrid reloads--these will be de-certed at the end of the year. I have one rocket in need of significant repair that can use these motors. Most likely launch possibilities are Brothers in July or maybe Sheridan in September. However, it really depends on being able to hook up with someone with a NOS tank and that suggests Mansfield in August or (brrrr)October since hybrids at OROC launches are scarce events. Given the current rules and the fact that I've never flown a hybrid and these are old reloads perhaps Brothers in August at the Research launch would be more appropriate. ;-) Anyway, mid-June is too soon so I'm looking for any opportunity after that to connect with a nitrous source at a launch. Money is extremely tight so this is going to be my one big effort this year. +McG+ > There'a a really good article on MF Ignitors in the new Sport Rocketry > magazine that covers clusters mostly. Very detailed. The guy did quite > extensive and detailed testing with notes. > I want to do some clustering, airstarts, and staging this year so it was > informative for me. > > > > Take a look if this your area of flight this year. > > > > Bill @ PSP > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:46:24 -0700 >> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ignition materials >> >> Shoot. Nothing of interest to rocketeers there. I was hoping maybe they >> had figured a way to cascade burning from a little bridge wire or >> something. Use air as the oxidizer, no pyrogen present. >> >> I couldn't tell anything from looking at the pics and info on their web >> site. >> +McG+ >> >> >> > http://fireworksfx.com/Solar%20Flare/solar_flare_igniters.htm >> > Looks like a bridge wire chip with a connector for QuickMatch that >> needs >> > direct BP contact. >> > >> > Recent discussion on PyroUniverse: >> > http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19502 >> > >> > Andrew. >> > >> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: >> >> >> >> Speaking of igniters, I got an ad insert in a fireworks magazine for >> >> something called "Solar Flare" igniters. These are advertised as >> "pure >> >> electrical igniters with no pyrogen." They apparently require more >> >> current than ematches. I gotta wonder if they maybe just use >> zirconium >> >> wool, you know, flashbulb stuffing without the pure oxygen >> atmosphere. >> >> Anyone have detailed info on these? >> >> +McG+ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun May 17 00:51:55 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <2DD1BEB8F9944B84B2122349BD5E5DC6@Mobile2> References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> <2DD1BEB8F9944B84B2122349BD5E5DC6@Mobile2> Message-ID: <10616e291a64aaebcbd5ff2dc3b2d279.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> As of now I'm figuring that if ATF had filed an appeal, or any other kind of legal motion, someone would have posted this to some rocketry list and it would be all over the place by now. So it looks like I was wrong (YIPPEE! YEEHAW!) and it's just a matter now of sorting out what the effect will actually be. But I still urge vigilance wrt to ATF. There are a lot of things relating to rocketry not specifically exempted by this ruling. In and of itself it's a narrow victory. +McG+ > Well, what I have heard is mostly hearsay, but my bet is the ATF dropped > it. > There are just too many stories from credible sources saying the ATF did > not > intend to appeal. I am betting the manufacturers already have their new > policy written and ready to go. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Moore-Read [mailto:terry at mooreread.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:33 PM > To: Bill Munds > Cc: Scott T. Bowers; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day > > The problem for the Legal Eagles is individual members are not their > clients > so they're going to steer clear of giving more than general > advice, their insurers would have a cow otherwise. I'm sure the > manufacturers are consulting their own counsel to figure out a way forward > from here. We'll probably get a general statement saying the ATF window > of > opportunity to appeal has passed. > > The ATF is only compelled by statute to publish an explosives list once > per > year - so we may be waiting until next year if we're looking > for some positive action from them. The judges order removed it from > the current list and the ATF can sit back and let the situation be > ambiguous > as long as they don't directly violate the order by threatening > enforcement > action. > > The more I think about an appeal, the more trouble I have figuring out > what they can really appeal. Not liking the result is not grounds. > They already lost the same argument before the appeals court and going > back > there having failed to follow the instructions from last time > would likely not be good for them. They would also likely have to > show a reasonable chance of victory and a risk of substantial harm in > order > to obtain an emergency stay from the court. > > I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. > > On May 15, 2009, at 9:56 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > >> Business as usual until we are notified by the legal eagles. >> nothing has changed until it's changed. >> >> We will be requiring permits for pre-order sales and at FITS until >> further notice. >> As soon as we find out anything we will be the first to post. >> >> Dave and Bill @ Puget Sound Propulsion >> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood >> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif >> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >>> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:25:00 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>> >>> Well, even if there is no filing I wouldn't start selling AP over the >>> counter until legal gives us guidance. We don't know if they filed, >>> or if not, how we should proceed. The BATFE still has the rocketry >>> faqs up. It has been years, a few days wont kill us. >>> >>> http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> From: Larry Colvin [mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com] >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:06 PM >>> To: Scott T Bowers >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>> >>> >>> >>> Why aren't we hearing anything from our organizations? I'm a dealer >>> and I want to sell without atf licensing requirements tomorrow at the >>> OROC launch. >>> And because we have had no communication from NAR or Tripoli since >>> March 18th, I can't. So many fliers will be bummed. >>> >>> I really thought our organizations would give more info as the >>> deadline approached, and then give the go-ahead late today. Does >>> anyone know why they are so mum? Can't even be contacted. It's 11PM >>> Eastern, and all we have is rumors. >>> >>> Larry Colvin >>> Bend, OR >>> ATF License holder for Sunriver Nature Center >>> >>> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Scott T Bowers >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>> To: "'Carl Hamilton'" , "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>> >>> Cc: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" >>> Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:54 PM >>> >>> >>> There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very >>> unsubstantiated though. >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: >>> >> nw.com >>> > >>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets- >>> bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto: >>> >> nw.com >>> > >>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be >>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM >>> To: Terry Moore-Read >>> Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>> >>> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read < >>> >>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be terry at mooreread.com>wrote: >>> >>>> I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new action >>>> or not >>>> - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be >>>> served on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. >>>> >>> >>> So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli >>> representatives were "out of town" right now? >>> >>> - Carl >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> >>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun May 17 03:31:27 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 03:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Altitude equation Message-ID: I just finished updating the world famous "McGoffin equation." Ok, so I'm hyping it up a bit. ;-) Ok, a lot... But hey, if I don't beat my own drum, who will? This is a dead simple *empirical* equation linking maximum potential altitude to motor impulse. Its original form posted here several years ago was Z = 1145 * I^0.38 where Z is the altitude in feet and I is the newton-second rating of the motor. This is based on the altitude records on both the NAR and TRA sites, single motor, best of all NAR divisions. Impulse is actually the maximum of the motor class since detailed info on what motors were actually used is not available for most of these altitude records. The updated equation is: Z = 1105 * I^0.402 The neat thing about this equation is that it is accurate to plus or minus 1/8 of the predicted altitude, i.e., +/- 12.5% over the motor size range A through M. 1/2A motors are a bit outside this range but it roughly works for those too. If you can get half these record altitudes you're doing pretty good. If you build and finish rockets the way I do, divide by half again. ;-) As an example, maximum altitude for D class: 3574 feet (old eq) 3684 feet (new eq) 3983 feet (NAR) Just a fun little factoid with occasional utility. +McG+ From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Sun May 17 07:55:48 2009 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 07:55:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B08@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com><79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B08@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: Way to go guys! And GALS!! MArk > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:54:11 -0700 > From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT > > TARC 2009 is now in the books and the Northwest did pretty well. > > Overcast and slightly rainy all morning, the kids were feeling right at home. > > Ingraham High School Team 1 (Alpha Team) did not fly as well as they wanted, reaching only 690 feet and flying several seconds short. Their score and place shall not be mentioned here to protect the fragile young egos of some previously cocky seniors. > > Team 3 (Charlie Team) had a near perfect flight, scoring 7.52 and putting them in sixth place going into the flyoff round! > > Team 2 (Bravo Team) came heartbreakingly close to the top twenty and the flyoff, scoring 23.12 points and finishing somewhere in the neighborhood of 22 or 23rd place. > > In the flyoff, winds kicked up considerably and the sun came out, really heating things up. > > Charlie team had a perfectly straight boost, just a little too high. 787 feet and just a shade over 45 seconds. They ended up finishing in 7th place, bringing home a trophy and earning themselves a chance to participate in NASA's Student Launch Initiative next year! > > Proud as I can possibly be of them! Thanks to all who supported the students this year!!!!! > > Pete Schurke > Teacher and Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > Seattle, WA > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009 -------------- next part -------------- Way to go guys! And GALS!! ? MArk ? > Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:54:11 -0700 > From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC REPORT > > TARC 2009 is now in the books and the Northwest did pretty well. > > Overcast and slightly rainy all morning, the kids were feeling right at home. > > Ingraham High School Team 1 (Alpha Team) did not fly as well as they wanted, reaching only 690 feet and flying several seconds short. Their score and place shall not be mentioned here to protect the fragile young egos of some previously cocky seniors. > > Team 3 (Charlie Team) had a near perfect flight, scoring 7.52 and putting them in sixth place going into the flyoff round! > > Team 2 (Bravo Team) came heartbreakingly close to the top twenty and the flyoff, scoring 23.12 points and finishing somewhere in the neighborhood of 22 or 23rd place. > > In the flyoff, winds kicked up considerably and the sun came out, really heating things up. > > Charlie team had a perfectly straight boost, just a little too high. 787 feet and just a shade over 45 seconds. They ended up finishing in 7th place, bringing home a trophy and earning themselves a chance to participate in NASA's Student Launch Initiative next year! > > Proud as I can possibly be of them! Thanks to all who supported the students this year!!!!! > > Pete Schurke > Teacher and Lead Advisor > Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy > Ingraham High School > Seattle, WA > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009 Check it out. From terry at mooreread.com Sun May 17 10:09:42 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:09:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <10616e291a64aaebcbd5ff2dc3b2d279.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2> <2DD1BEB8F9944B84B2122349BD5E5DC6@Mobile2> <10616e291a64aaebcbd5ff2dc3b2d279.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <93797DEB-BD89-4EBC-AF43-6CCB33BA9D59@mooreread.com> I checked the Electroic Filing System Yesterday and there's no case listed at the appeals court in DC. On May 17, 2009, at 12:51 AM, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: > As of now I'm figuring that if ATF had filed an appeal, or any other > kind > of legal motion, someone would have posted this to some rocketry > list and > it would be all over the place by now. So it looks like I was wrong > (YIPPEE! YEEHAW!) and it's just a matter now of sorting out what the > effect will actually be. > > But I still urge vigilance wrt to ATF. There are a lot of things > relating > to rocketry not specifically exempted by this ruling. In and of > itself > it's a narrow victory. > +McG+ > > >> Well, what I have heard is mostly hearsay, but my bet is the ATF >> dropped >> it. >> There are just too many stories from credible sources saying the >> ATF did >> not >> intend to appeal. I am betting the manufacturers already have their >> new >> policy written and ready to go. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Terry Moore-Read [mailto:terry at mooreread.com] >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:33 PM >> To: Bill Munds >> Cc: Scott T. Bowers; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> The problem for the Legal Eagles is individual members are not their >> clients >> so they're going to steer clear of giving more than general >> advice, their insurers would have a cow otherwise. I'm sure the >> manufacturers are consulting their own counsel to figure out a way >> forward >> from here. We'll probably get a general statement saying the ATF >> window >> of >> opportunity to appeal has passed. >> >> The ATF is only compelled by statute to publish an explosives list >> once >> per >> year - so we may be waiting until next year if we're looking >> for some positive action from them. The judges order removed it >> from >> the current list and the ATF can sit back and let the situation be >> ambiguous >> as long as they don't directly violate the order by threatening >> enforcement >> action. >> >> The more I think about an appeal, the more trouble I have figuring >> out >> what they can really appeal. Not liking the result is not grounds. >> They already lost the same argument before the appeals court and >> going >> back >> there having failed to follow the instructions from last time >> would likely not be good for them. They would also likely have to >> show a reasonable chance of victory and a risk of substantial harm in >> order >> to obtain an emergency stay from the court. >> >> I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. >> >> On May 15, 2009, at 9:56 PM, Bill Munds wrote: >> >>> Business as usual until we are notified by the legal eagles. >>> nothing has changed until it's changed. >>> >>> We will be requiring permits for pre-order sales and at FITS until >>> further notice. >>> As soon as we find out anything we will be the first to post. >>> >>> Dave and Bill @ Puget Sound Propulsion >>> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood >>> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif >>> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >>> Join me >>> >>>> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:25:00 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>>> >>>> Well, even if there is no filing I wouldn't start selling AP over >>>> the >>>> counter until legal gives us guidance. We don't know if they filed, >>>> or if not, how we should proceed. The BATFE still has the rocketry >>>> faqs up. It has been years, a few days wont kill us. >>>> >>>> http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>> From: Larry Colvin [mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:06 PM >>>> To: Scott T Bowers >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Why aren't we hearing anything from our organizations? I'm a dealer >>>> and I want to sell without atf licensing requirements tomorrow at >>>> the >>>> OROC launch. >>>> And because we have had no communication from NAR or Tripoli since >>>> March 18th, I can't. So many fliers will be bummed. >>>> >>>> I really thought our organizations would give more info as the >>>> deadline approached, and then give the go-ahead late today. Does >>>> anyone know why they are so mum? Can't even be contacted. It's 11PM >>>> Eastern, and all we have is rumors. >>>> >>>> Larry Colvin >>>> Bend, OR >>>> ATF License holder for Sunriver Nature Center >>>> >>>> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Scott T Bowers >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Scott T Bowers >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>>> To: "'Carl Hamilton'" , "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>>> >>>> Cc: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" >>>> Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:54 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very >>>> unsubstantiated though. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: >>>> >>> nw.com >>>>> >>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets- >>>> bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto: >>>> >>> nw.com >>>>> >>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be >>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton >>>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM >>>> To: Terry Moore-Read >>>> Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read < >>>> >>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be terry at mooreread.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new >>>>> action >>>>> or not >>>>> - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be >>>>> served on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. >>>>> >>>> >>>> So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli >>>> representatives were "out of town" right now? >>>> >>>> - Carl >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> >>> to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com> >>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From fred_bare at yahoo.com Sun May 17 11:13:12 2009 From: fred_bare at yahoo.com (Fred Bare) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 11:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging Steve McKibben Message-ID: <53111.42140.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Steve if you are out there please get ahold of me Thanks Greg Wilson Roadside Hobbies -------------- next part -------------- Steve if you are out there please get ahold of me Thanks Greg Wilson Roadside Hobbies From scott at scottsrockets.com Sun May 17 11:48:48 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 11:48:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-day In-Reply-To: <93797DEB-BD89-4EBC-AF43-6CCB33BA9D59@mooreread.com> References: <355777.21623.qm@web50211.mail.re2.yahoo.com><79D88AF1FEAF4CBCBF94B8DEA448B1CB@Mobile2><2DD1BEB8F9944B84B2122349BD5E5DC6@Mobile2><10616e291a64aaebcbd5ff2dc3b2d279.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <93797DEB-BD89-4EBC-AF43-6CCB33BA9D59@mooreread.com> Message-ID: Both Trip Barbour and Ken Good have indicated it is unlikely they filed electronically at the 11th hour. Ken has stated he has a joint statement in hand that will be issued as soon as the lawyers confirm nothing was filed. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:10 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day I checked the Electroic Filing System Yesterday and there's no case listed at the appeals court in DC. On May 17, 2009, at 12:51 AM, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: > As of now I'm figuring that if ATF had filed an appeal, or any other > kind of legal motion, someone would have posted this to some rocketry > list and it would be all over the place by now. So it looks like I > was wrong (YIPPEE! YEEHAW!) and it's just a matter now of sorting out > what the effect will actually be. > > But I still urge vigilance wrt to ATF. There are a lot of things > relating to rocketry not specifically exempted by this ruling. In and > of itself it's a narrow victory. > +McG+ > > >> Well, what I have heard is mostly hearsay, but my bet is the ATF >> dropped it. >> There are just too many stories from credible sources saying the ATF >> did not intend to appeal. I am betting the manufacturers already have >> their new policy written and ready to go. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Terry Moore-Read [mailto:terry at mooreread.com] >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:33 PM >> To: Bill Munds >> Cc: Scott T. Bowers; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >> >> The problem for the Legal Eagles is individual members are not their >> clients so they're going to steer clear of giving more than general >> advice, their insurers would have a cow otherwise. I'm sure the >> manufacturers are consulting their own counsel to figure out a way >> forward from here. We'll probably get a general statement saying the >> ATF window of opportunity to appeal has passed. >> >> The ATF is only compelled by statute to publish an explosives list >> once per year - so we may be waiting until next year if we're looking >> for some positive action from them. The judges order removed it >> from >> the current list and the ATF can sit back and let the situation be >> ambiguous as long as they don't directly violate the order by >> threatening enforcement action. >> >> The more I think about an appeal, the more trouble I have figuring >> out what they can really appeal. Not liking the result is not >> grounds. >> They already lost the same argument before the appeals court and >> going back there having failed to follow the instructions from last >> time >> would likely not be good for them. They would also likely have to >> show a reasonable chance of victory and a risk of substantial harm in >> order to obtain an emergency stay from the court. >> >> I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. >> >> On May 15, 2009, at 9:56 PM, Bill Munds wrote: >> >>> Business as usual until we are notified by the legal eagles. >>> nothing has changed until it's changed. >>> >>> We will be requiring permits for pre-order sales and at FITS until >>> further notice. >>> As soon as we find out anything we will be the first to post. >>> >>> Dave and Bill @ Puget Sound Propulsion >>> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood >>> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif >>> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >>> Join me >>> >>>> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:25:00 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>>> >>>> Well, even if there is no filing I wouldn't start selling AP over >>>> the counter until legal gives us guidance. We don't know if they >>>> filed, or if not, how we should proceed. The BATFE still has the >>>> rocketry faqs up. It has been years, a few days wont kill us. >>>> >>>> http://www.atf.gov/explarson/eipb.htm >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>> From: Larry Colvin [mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:06 PM >>>> To: Scott T Bowers >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Why aren't we hearing anything from our organizations? I'm a dealer >>>> and I want to sell without atf licensing requirements tomorrow at >>>> the OROC launch. >>>> And because we have had no communication from NAR or Tripoli since >>>> March 18th, I can't. So many fliers will be bummed. >>>> >>>> I really thought our organizations would give more info as the >>>> deadline approached, and then give the go-ahead late today. Does >>>> anyone know why they are so mum? Can't even be contacted. It's 11PM >>>> Eastern, and all we have is rumors. >>>> >>>> Larry Colvin >>>> Bend, OR >>>> ATF License holder for Sunriver Nature Center >>>> >>>> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Scott T Bowers >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Scott T Bowers >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>>> To: "'Carl Hamilton'" , "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>>> >>>> Cc: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" >>>> Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:54 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> There is rumor on another list that the ATF decided to bag it. Very >>>> unsubstantiated though. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: >>>> >>> ts >>>> nw.com >>>>> >>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets- >>>> bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto: >>>> >>> ts >>>> nw.com >>>>> >>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be >>>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton >>>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 PM >>>> To: Terry Moore-Read >>>> Cc: NW Rocketry mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-day >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Terry Moore-Read < >>>> >>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be terry at mooreread.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not sure whether the drop box can be used to start a new >>>>> action or not >>>>> - either way the motion requesting permission to appeal must be >>>>> served on the NAR & Tripoli before it is filed in court. >>>>> >>>> >>>> So, would it be good legal strategy if all NAR and Tripoli >>>> representatives were "out of town" right now? >>>> >>>> - Carl >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> >>> to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com> >>>> MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from >>>> "us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rmoscoe at msn.com Sun May 17 11:52:24 2009 From: rmoscoe at msn.com (Gwen Moscoe) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 11:52:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 day deadline for ATF appeal expires today, May 17 In-Reply-To: <53111.42140.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <53111.42140.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It has struck me that, as of today, 60 days has elapsed since the ruling against the ATF which vacated the controls on APCP. Has anyone heard anything regarding the ATF's response w/i the timeline? Does this mean we no may assume APCP is not controlled via the ATF, and therefore not requiring a license, although obviously the DoT and the safety folks would maintain their interest? I'm just wondering given my LEUP expires on June 15th and I am holding onto my completed package without mailing it since it seems it may be irrelevant. From scott at scottsrockets.com Sun May 17 11:52:59 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 11:52:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 day deadline for ATF appeal expires today, May 17 In-Reply-To: References: <53111.42140.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7F0D8D68891A42C8AC7B7100391079D7@Mobile2> Read the D-day thread. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Gwen Moscoe Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 11:52 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 day deadline for ATF appeal expires today, May 17 It has struck me that, as of today, 60 days has elapsed since the ruling against the ATF which vacated the controls on APCP. Has anyone heard anything regarding the ATF's response w/i the timeline? Does this mean we no may assume APCP is not controlled via the ATF, and therefore not requiring a license, although obviously the DoT and the safety folks would maintain their interest? I'm just wondering given my LEUP expires on June 15th and I am holding onto my completed package without mailing it since it seems it may be irrelevant. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Sun May 17 12:37:51 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 12:37:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090517123258.035b1cc8@mail.iinet.com> >Both Trip Barbour and Ken Good have indicated it is unlikely they filed >electronically at the 11th hour. Ken has stated he has a joint statement in >hand that will be issued as soon as the lawyers confirm nothing was filed. Good scoop. The lawyers should have that verified by Tuesday I would think so let's see what the joint statement says and what the new rules / procedures are. Looking very good so far though. By the way does anyone know what happened with Tim's level II attempt at Brothers Sunday morning? Enquiring minds want to know. Hope it went well. The rocket sure looked nice on the stand. And by the way congratulations to the BORG team for the two stage L to L yesterday. The flight was great and I trust the recovery was just as spectacular although one would have had to have been a good deal downrange to see that. Went high. From scott at scottsrockets.com Sun May 17 13:28:16 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 13:28:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] D-Day In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090517123258.035b1cc8@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090517123258.035b1cc8@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <864D370F53A34CEAB7DAB46CE09770DC@Mobile2> I would think by early Monday, very early. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 12:38 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] D-Day >Both Trip Barbour and Ken Good have indicated it is unlikely they filed >electronically at the 11th hour. Ken has stated he has a joint >statement in hand that will be issued as soon as the lawyers confirm nothing was filed. Good scoop. The lawyers should have that verified by Tuesday I would think so let's see what the joint statement says and what the new rules / procedures are. Looking very good so far though. By the way does anyone know what happened with Tim's level II attempt at Brothers Sunday morning? Enquiring minds want to know. Hope it went well. The rocket sure looked nice on the stand. And by the way congratulations to the BORG team for the two stage L to L yesterday. The flight was great and I trust the recovery was just as spectacular although one would have had to have been a good deal downrange to see that. Went high. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From blakbird11 at comcast.net Sun May 17 16:09:18 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 16:09:18 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <000001c9d496$7b81d920$72858b60$@newman@comcast.net> References: <85D4B780-B60C-4952-A5A8-4B6C7ECA9001@comcast.net> <000001c9d496$7b81d920$72858b60$@newman@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CDBB87B-1886-4425-B787-1503C0F0202E@comcast.net> On May 14, 2009, at 6:18 AM, Kent Newman wrote: > On another subject, can you tell me anything about spin > stabilization? Resource materials on spin induced from platforms, > launchers, tabs, fins, etc.? Equations would be good, too. I'm > wrestling with spin: not too little, not too much, but, JUST right > when it really means something a lower altitudes and doesn't create > restrictive drag. It's certainly something we can go over although there is no equation for "just right". At the speeds our rockets fly, you'd need **extremely** fine angular positioning if you are using something like canted fins or the rotation rate will be ridiculous. On May 14, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial > differential equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am > pretty sure I am immune to them anyway. That's a relief because I forgot how to do them quite a while ago. > What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we > build into these things is really required. In general, for smaller > rockets, the structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the > same thing -- we have a motor mount tube, centering rings, and a > tube all tied together into a fairly rigid structure. As thing scale > up, it seems like most projects maintain this basic design. What I > am thinking about is how much I can divorce the structural/strength > part from the aerodynamic skin part. The overall rocket must be able > to take the abuse of takeoff and acceleration, and that part I feel > fairly confident about since it is pretty straightforward to see how > the force gerts applied and is transferred. Where I am less certain > is in how much requirement there is for the outer skin to be strong > and/or rigid. An area I am particularly dumb about is what happens > at the transition to supersonic flight. Your comments lead at least 10 different useful topics to spring into my mind. We'll have to decide where to focus our efforts. But structural strength is my speciality so we can certainly go over how to optimize that. > My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that > are lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on > them. Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :) There may be a little math, but probably noting beyond Algebra I. One of the unknowns with cutting it too close to the edge is that we are not using aerospace materials here. That means that there can be a lot of scatter in the strength of our base materials. One phenolic tube or filament wound glass tube may be significantly stronger or weaker than another. On May 14, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Adrian L Carbine wrote: > Hi Eric, > > I would love to sit in on that little discussion!! Unfortunately, I > can't be at FITS... > > I'm not afraid of partial DiffEq, although they aren't my favorite > pastime either :-). But I do get a bit frustrated by my lack of > aeronautical engineering knowledge, compared to my day job > engineering and architecting microprocessors (I'm a senior principal > engineer at Intel, in our main microprocessor design team), and the > lack of affordable/good CAE tools. At work I'm spoiled by massive > amounts of compute horsepower and good simulation & validation tools > capable of handling circuit designs composed of billions of > transistors and wires. But in my workshop at home I'm limited to my > own experience and some gut feel from my love of making things all > my life... I have lots of computing power at work too, but it turns out that gut feel built on experience is often more valuable. The computing tools I use at work like CATIA for CAD or Abaqus for finite element modeling tend to run about $30,000 per seat per year. Not exactly in most of our budgets. > I wish I could augment the practical experience with a little more > applied math. Aside from a whole bunch of university math, physics, > and chemistry classes, I have limited education in aeronautical > engineering --- just some introductory classes I took in > thermodynamics, statics and dynamics, etc. But not nearly enough to > calculate how many layers of carbon fiber I really need. I have the > introductory Anderson text, and I like it a lot, but what I would > really love is the next level of equations, some wisdom about where > they apply and where they don't (what most newbie's miss), and > better design tools. Lacking these, my airframe designs usually fall > slightly into the "overbuilt" category. I usually err on that side > because it is more important to me to get the rocket back in flyable > condition than to set some kind of record. I don't have the time or > the money to experiment with how close to the edge I can get, as > interesting as that would be. If you are going to err on one side or the other, the side of caution makes more sense. However if you are going for optimum performance then this won't get you any records. Personally, I'm interesting in building light for more practical reasons than just altitude or speed. The light rocket is cheaper to build, easier to carry, and doesn't need as big a motor to fly to the same level. All wins in my book. If you **really** want to know how many layers of carbon fiber you need, then I'm afraid there is a lot more math in your future. In fact, most of the advanced composite analytical methods are export controlled so I can't even talk about them. Trial by error is certainly the way some folks do it, even those at a fairly high level. I remember watching a show on the Discovery Channel once where John Force and his team were trying to beat a land speed record. They were talking about the engine and showed a quick image of the pistons. I took one look at them and thought, "ouch, those are going to fracture right on that edge". Five minutes later in the show they were tearing the engine down because that exact thing had happened. They hadn't actually done any simulation, they just tweaked the design and tried again. > Anyway, I think it is great that you have the tools and knowledge > to do amazing things with this hobby. I think there are a few of us, > not many, but a few that would be willing to pay you to teach us > about airframe engineering! Since that probably won't happen, feel > free to copy me on any technical or practical comments/advice/Q&A > you shell out to other people. I would welcome the input! Well, I do like money!, but so many people have helped me for free over the years that it would not be right to charge for such a thing. Maybe somebody will take notes for you! On May 14, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > Tough proposition. From my limited research the main problems occur > at initial boost and then at maximum dynamic pressure which for > many of the smaller rockets are the same. Going transonic causes a > whole other level of problems as does any prolonged time above mach > as the rocket body starts to heat. In my experimentation which is > nowhere near as complete as Eric's, about the best single > modification that can be made is to have the motor connected to a > thrust bulkhead. This reduces the inertial forces as the only > weight that needs be supported at the bulkhead is that from the nose > to the bulkhead rather than from the nose to a motor mount in the > tail and the portion of the rocket behind the bulkhead is just > being pulled along for the ride so the main force there is the > drag. The main obstacle to this approach is that motors come in > different length cases so once you fix the bulkhead that rocket is > built for that case unless you use internal struts or supports when > launching on smaller motors. Other than that I have found it to be > a very difficult proposition to make the rocket as light as > possible and still retain stability through the high performance > barriers. There are endless examples of structural failures because > too much weight was trying to be saved. It's like waterproofing a > surface. The water, or in our case the force of the air, will find > its way into any imperfections. You make some good points here. It turns out that the really ugly formulas like the Navier-Stokes equations are almost never solved in closed form. They are just too complicated because they account for everything. But most engineering can be done by eliminating a number of the variables to simplify. For example, you can consider that an aircraft is at steady state; all the forces are balanced statically. This means you can take out all the differentials that are a function of time. For speeds sufficiently subsonic, you can also assume the air in incompressible which eliminates all the functions of density. But despite the fact that our rockets **seem** a lot simpler than airplanes, analytically they are not. For instance, our rockets are never at steady state. They are either accelerating during boost or decelerating during coast. That means time is always important. And they fly fast enough that compressibility cannot be ignored. As if that weren't enough, the weight changes with time as the fuel burns, and not by a trivial amount. Then for high altitude flights, there's also the fact that air density changes with altitude. Even the change in ambient temperature effects the Mach number which is a big deal for supersonic flights. So it's all about knowing what matters and what you can ignore. On May 14, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Michael Dennis wrote: > Dropped the list - when you two get together to discuss I'd love to > listen/chime in some. I'll bring some beer if you like :-) Sounds like this matter has grown considerably beyond the initial concept! If I'm not careful I'll find myself preparing an outline with a list of topics. If this is really something people like, maybe we should set up a regular meeting/class where we all sit around and go over a topic, preferably over pizza and adult beverages. Everyone has their area of expertise whether it be structures, aero, electronics, photography, etc. Eric Albrecht -------------- next part -------------- On May 14, 2009, at 6:18 AM, Kent Newman wrote: On another subject, can you tell me anything about spin stabilization??Resource materials on spin induced from platforms, launchers, tabs, fins,?etc.? Equations would be good, too. ?I'm wrestling with spin: not too?little, not too much, but, JUST right when it really means something a?lower altitudes and doesn't create restrictive drag. It's certainly something we can go over although there is no equation for "just right". ?At the speeds our rockets fly, you'd need **extremely** fine angular positioning if you are using something like canted fins or the rotation rate will be ridiculous. On May 14, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Scott Berfield wrote: I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial differential equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am pretty sure I am immune to them anyway. That's a relief because I forgot how to do them quite a while ago. What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we build into these things is really required. In general, for smaller rockets, the structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the same thing -- we have a motor mount tube, centering rings, and a tube all tied together into a fairly rigid structure. As thing scale up, it seems like most projects maintain this basic design. What I am thinking about is how much I can divorce the structural/strength part from the aerodynamic skin part. The overall rocket must be able to take the abuse of takeoff and acceleration, and that part I feel fairly confident about since it is pretty straightforward to see how the force gerts applied and is transferred. Where I am less certain is in how much requirement there is for the outer skin?to be strong and/or rigid. An area I am particularly dumb about is what happens at the transition to supersonic flight. Your comments lead at least 10 different useful topics to spring into my mind. ?We'll have to decide where to focus our efforts. ?But structural strength is my speciality so we can certainly go over how to optimize that.? ? My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that are lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on them. Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :) There may be a little math, but probably noting beyond Algebra I. ?One of the unknowns with cutting it too close to the edge is that we are not using aerospace materials here. ?That means that there can be a lot of scatter in the strength of our base materials. One phenolic tube or filament wound glass tube may be significantly stronger or weaker than another. On May 14, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Adrian L Carbine wrote: Hi Eric, ? I would love to sit in on that little discussion!! Unfortunately, I can't be at FITS... ? I'm not afraid of partial DiffEq, although they aren't my favorite pastime either :-). But I do get a bit frustrated by my lack of aeronautical engineering knowledge, compared to my day job engineering and architecting microprocessors (I'm a senior principal engineer at Intel, in our main microprocessor design team), and the lack of affordable/good CAE tools.?At work I'm spoiled by massive amounts of compute horsepower and good simulation & validation tools capable of handling circuit designs composed of billions of transistors and wires. But in my workshop at home I'm limited to my own experience and some gut feel from my love of making things all my life... I have lots of computing power at work too, but it turns out that gut feel built on experience is often more valuable. ?The computing tools I use at work like CATIA for CAD or Abaqus for finite element modeling tend to run about $30,000 per seat per year. ?Not exactly in most of our budgets. ? I wish I could augment the practical experience with a little more applied math. Aside from a whole bunch of university math, physics, and chemistry?classes, I have limited education in aeronautical engineering --- just some introductory classes I took?in thermodynamics, statics and dynamics, etc. But not nearly enough to calculate how many layers of carbon fiber I really need. I have the introductory Anderson text, and I like it a lot, but what I would really love is the next level of equations, some wisdom about where they apply and where they don't (what most newbie's miss), and better design tools. Lacking these, my airframe designs usually fall slightly into the "overbuilt" category. I usually err on that side because it is more important to me to get the rocket back in flyable condition than to set some kind of record. I don't have the time or the money to experiment with how close to the edge I can get, as interesting as that would be. If you are going to err on one side or the other, the side of caution makes more sense. ?However if you are going for optimum performance then this won't get you any records. ?Personally, I'm interesting in building light for more practical reasons than just altitude or speed. ?The light rocket is cheaper to build, easier to carry, and doesn't need as big a motor to fly to the same level. ?All wins in my book. If you **really** want to know how many layers of carbon fiber you need, then I'm afraid there is a lot more math in your future. ?In fact, most of the advanced composite analytical methods are export controlled so I can't even talk about them. Trial by error is certainly the way some folks do it, even those at a fairly high level. ?I remember watching a show on the Discovery Channel once where John Force and his team were trying to beat a land speed record. ?They were talking about the engine and showed a quick image of the pistons. ?I took one look at them and thought, "ouch, those are going to fracture right on that edge". ? Five minutes later in the show they were tearing the engine down because that exact thing had happened. ?They hadn't actually done any simulation, they just tweaked the design and tried again. ? Anyway, I think it is great that you have the tools and knowledge to do amazing things with this hobby. I think there are a few of us, not many, but a few that would be willing to? pay ?you to teach us about airframe engineering! Since that probably won't happen, feel free to copy me on any technical or practical comments/advice/Q&A you shell out to other people. I would welcome the input! Well, I do like money!, but so many people have helped me for free over the years that it would not be right to charge for such a thing. ?Maybe somebody will take notes for you! On May 14, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: Tough proposition. ?From my limited research the main problems occur at??initial boost and then at maximum dynamic pressure which for many of the??smaller rockets are the same. ?Going transonic causes a whole other level??of problems as does any prolonged time above mach as the rocket body starts??to heat. ?In my experimentation which is nowhere near as complete as??Eric's, about the best single modification that can be made is to have the??motor connected to a thrust bulkhead. ?This reduces the inertial forces as??the only weight that needs be supported at the bulkhead is that from the?nose to the bulkhead rather than from the nose to a motor mount in the tail??and the portion of the rocket behind the bulkhead is just being pulled??along for the ride so the main force there is the drag. ?The main obstacle?to this approach is that motors come in different length cases so once you??fix the bulkhead that rocket is built for that case unless you use internal??struts or supports when launching on smaller motors. ?Other than that I??have found it to be a very difficult proposition to make the rocket as??light as possible and still retain stability through the high performance??barriers. ?There are endless examples of structural failures because too?much weight was trying to be saved. ?It's like waterproofing a??surface. ?The water, or in our case the force of the air, will find its way??into any imperfections. ??????? You make some good points here. ?It turns out that the really ugly formulas like the Navier-Stokes equations are almost never solved in closed form. ?They are just too complicated because they account for everything. ?But most engineering can be done by eliminating ?a number of the variables to simplify. ?For example, you can consider that an aircraft is at steady state; all the forces are balanced statically. ?This means you can take out all the differentials that are a function of time. ?For speeds sufficiently subsonic, you can also assume the air in incompressible which eliminates all the functions of density. ?But despite the fact that our rockets **seem** a lot simpler than airplanes, analytically they are not. ?For instance, our rockets are never at steady state. ?They are either accelerating during boost or decelerating during coast. ?That means time is always important. ?And they fly fast enough that compressibility cannot be ignored. ?As if that weren't enough, the weight changes with time as the fuel burns, and not by a trivial amount. ?Then for high altitude flights, there's also the fact that air density changes with altitude. ?Even the change in ambient temperature effects the Mach number which is a big deal for supersonic flights. ?So it's all about knowing what matters and what you can ignore. On May 14, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Michael Dennis wrote: Dropped the list - when you two get together to discuss I'd love to listen/chime in some. ?I'll bring some beer if you like :-) Sounds like this matter has grown considerably beyond the initial concept! ?If I'm not careful I'll find myself preparing an outline with a list of topics. ?If this is really something people like, maybe we should set up a regular meeting/class where we all sit around and go over a topic,?preferably?over pizza and adult?beverages. ?Everyone has their area of expertise whether it be structures, aero, electronics, photography, etc. Eric Albrecht From rcdm at outlawnet.com Sun May 17 16:21:50 2009 From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 16:21:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090517123258.035b1cc8@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: Our Bend Oregon Rocketry Group had a VERY good day at the OROC Brothers launch Saturday. We successfully flew our newly engineered WAC Corporal/Tiny Tim 2 stage on an L2200G staging to an L850W. Everything worked great and the flight was gorgeous! The unofficial altitude report was 15,300'. Robert Killen of Bend was kind enough to post this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDWEyClUc The sustainer was recovered 1.3 miles from the flight line and about 50' off the road to the highway. Booster was recovered about half that distance out. Project was totally scratch built by a commitee (no small feat!). Airframe is 4.5" and rocket is just over 13' tall. Pad weight was about 56 pounds. Booster chute was deployed by a timer. The sustainer motor was fired by another timer in the sustainer e-bay. Two altimeters deployed the chutes. Both stages had Beeline tracking and Greg Clark loaned a GPS tracker to ride in the second stage. The whole team had grins the rest of the day! Weather for the launch was great, it seemed more like July than May. Temps. were well into the 80's and winds were genrally very light with some thermal activity. Attendance seemed pretty good with a couple of scout groups keeping the pads busy. Saw lots of sunburned, happy rocketeers. Rod Moorehead -------------- next part -------------- Our Bend Oregon Rocketry Group had a VERY good day at the OROC Brothers launch Saturday. We successfully flew our newly engineered WAC Corporal/Tiny Tim 2 stage on an L2200G staging to an L850W. Everything worked great and the flight was gorgeous! The unofficial altitude report was 15,300'. ? Robert Killen of Bend was kind enough to post this video on youtube: ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDWEyClUc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDWEyClUc ? The sustainer was recovered 1.3 miles from the flight line and about 50' off the road to the highway. Booster was recovered about half that distance out. ? Project was totally scratch built by a commitee (no small feat!). Airframe is 4.5" and rocket is just over 13' tall. Pad weight was about 56 pounds.? Booster chute was deployed by a timer. The sustainer motor was fired by another timer in the sustainer e-bay. Two altimeters deployed the chutes. Both stages had Beeline tracking and Greg Clark loaned a GPS tracker to ride in the second stage. ? The whole team had grins the rest of the day! ? Weather for the launch was great, it seemed more like July than May. Temps. were well into the 80's and winds were genrally very light with some thermal activity. Attendance seemed pretty good with a couple of scout groups keeping the pads busy. ? Saw lots of sunburned, happy rocketeers. ? Rod Moorehead From scott at scottsrockets.com Sun May 17 16:26:36 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 16:26:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090517123258.035b1cc8@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <143CCC926C704CC5AB4B95C66205FD0E@Mobile2> Looks like the second chuffed a few times? Or was that a separation charge? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Moorehead Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:22 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight Our Bend Oregon Rocketry Group had a VERY good day at the OROC Brothers launch Saturday. We successfully flew our newly engineered WAC Corporal/Tiny Tim 2 stage on an L2200G staging to an L850W. Everything worked great and the flight was gorgeous! The unofficial altitude report was 15,300'. Robert Killen of Bend was kind enough to post this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDWEyClUc The sustainer was recovered 1.3 miles from the flight line and about 50' off the road to the highway. Booster was recovered about half that distance out. Project was totally scratch built by a commitee (no small feat!). Airframe is 4.5" and rocket is just over 13' tall. Pad weight was about 56 pounds. Booster chute was deployed by a timer. The sustainer motor was fired by another timer in the sustainer e-bay. Two altimeters deployed the chutes. Both stages had Beeline tracking and Greg Clark loaned a GPS tracker to ride in the second stage. The whole team had grins the rest of the day! Weather for the launch was great, it seemed more like July than May. Temps. were well into the 80's and winds were genrally very light with some thermal activity. Attendance seemed pretty good with a couple of scout groups keeping the pads busy. Saw lots of sunburned, happy rocketeers. Rod Moorehead From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun May 17 17:01:03 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:01:03 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight Message-ID: Nice job! Hats off to the BORG! Mike F. **************Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002) -------------- next part -------------- Nice job!? Hats off to the BORG! ? Mike F. Recession-proof vacation ideas. http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002 Find free things to do in the U.S. From scott at scottsrockets.com Sun May 17 17:18:11 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 17:18:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight In-Reply-To: <018D39E82D0E44DEAA5AC52CE2A0FEF8@DANE> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090517123258.035b1cc8@mail.iinet.com> <143CCC926C704CC5AB4B95C66205FD0E@Mobile2> <018D39E82D0E44DEAA5AC52CE2A0FEF8@DANE> Message-ID: Looks like you still had plenty of time. Great flight! Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com _____ From: Moorehead [mailto:rcdm at outlawnet.com] Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:34 PM To: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight We've been looking at that on the videos. It does look like chuffing. We had to make a last minute igniter change since the Medusa nozzle on the L850 was too small for the planned one. We may have gotten lucky on that one! Rod M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott T Bowers To: 'Moorehead' ; rockets at rocketsnw.com ; 'Paul Bogdanich' Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:26 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight Looks like the second chuffed a few times? Or was that a separation charge? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Moorehead Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:22 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight Our Bend Oregon Rocketry Group had a VERY good day at the OROC Brothers launch Saturday. We successfully flew our newly engineered WAC Corporal/Tiny Tim 2 stage on an L2200G staging to an L850W. Everything worked great and the flight was gorgeous! The unofficial altitude report was 15,300'. Robert Killen of Bend was kind enough to post this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDWEyClUc The sustainer was recovered 1.3 miles from the flight line and about 50' off the road to the highway. Booster was recovered about half that distance out. Project was totally scratch built by a commitee (no small feat!). Airframe is 4.5" and rocket is just over 13' tall. Pad weight was about 56 pounds. Booster chute was deployed by a timer. The sustainer motor was fired by another timer in the sustainer e-bay. Two altimeters deployed the chutes. Both stages had Beeline tracking and Greg Clark loaned a GPS tracker to ride in the second stage. The whole team had grins the rest of the day! Weather for the launch was great, it seemed more like July than May. Temps. were well into the 80's and winds were genrally very light with some thermal activity. Attendance seemed pretty good with a couple of scout groups keeping the pads busy. Saw lots of sunburned, happy rocketeers. Rod Moorehead -------------- next part -------------- Looks like you?still had plenty of time. Great flight! ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From: Moorehead [mailto:rcdm at outlawnet.com] Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:34 PM To: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight We've been looking at that on the videos. It does look like chuffing. We had to make a last minute igniter change since the Medusa nozzle on the L850 was too small for the planned one. ? We may have gotten lucky on that one! ? Rod M. ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com Scott T Bowers To: mailto:rcdm at outlawnet.com 'Moorehead' ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com ; mailto:jhadv at pacifier.com 'Paul Bogdanich' Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:26 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight Looks like the second chuffed a few times? Or was that a separation charge? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com www.scottsrockets.com ? -----Original Message----- From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Moorehead Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:22 PM To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com ; Paul Bogdanich Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight Our Bend Oregon Rocketry Group had a VERY good day at the OROC Brothers launch Saturday. We successfully flew our newly engineered WAC Corporal/Tiny Tim 2 stage on an L2200G staging to an L850W. Everything worked great and the flight was gorgeous! The unofficial altitude report was 15,300'. Robert Killen of Bend was kind enough to post this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDWEyClUc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDWEyClUc The sustainer was recovered 1.3 miles from the flight line and about 50' off the road to the highway. Booster was recovered about half that distance out. Project was totally scratch built by a commitee (no small feat!). Airframe is 4.5" and rocket is just over 13' tall. Pad weight was about 56 pounds. Booster chute was deployed by a timer. The sustainer motor was fired by another timer in the sustainer e-bay. Two altimeters deployed the chutes. Both stages had Beeline tracking and Greg Clark loaned a GPS tracker to ride in the second stage. The whole team had grins the rest of the day! Weather for the launch was great, it seemed more like July than May. Temps. were well into the 80's and winds were genrally very light with some thermal activity. Attendance seemed pretty good with a couple of scout groups keeping the pads busy. Saw lots of sunburned, happy rocketeers. Rod Moorehead From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Sun May 17 17:43:38 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 17:43:38 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OT: Attn: Bill or Dave from PSP Message-ID: Hi guys, Can you contact me off list when you get a chance, or check your email at sales at ..... Thanks, Bob From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun May 17 18:05:38 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 18:05:38 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090517123258.035b1cc8@mail.iinet.com><143CCC926C704CC5AB4B95C66205FD0E@Mobile2><018D39E82D0E44DEAA5AC52CE2A0FEF8@DANE> Message-ID: <99AD98D7E58B4ECB9A20E12301980EBB@LaptopKrausert> I would like to thank Team BORG on behalf of OregonRocketry for a great show on Saturday. Booster and sustainer grabbed the crowd and hooked many. Spectacular job. Watched by nearly 160 people. All enjoyed. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight > Looks like you still had plenty of time. Great flight! > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > _____ > > From: Moorehead [mailto:rcdm at outlawnet.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:34 PM > To: Scott T Bowers > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight > > > We've been looking at that on the videos. It does look like chuffing. We > had > to make a last minute igniter change since the Medusa nozzle on the L850 > was > too small for the planned one. > > We may have gotten lucky on that one! > > Rod M. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott T Bowers > To: 'Moorehead' ; rockets at rocketsnw.com ; > 'Paul > Bogdanich' > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:26 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight > > Looks like the second chuffed a few times? Or was that a separation > charge? > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Moorehead > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:22 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich > Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 flight > > Our Bend Oregon Rocketry Group had a VERY good day at the OROC Brothers > launch Saturday. We successfully flew our newly engineered WAC > Corporal/Tiny > Tim 2 stage on an L2200G staging to an L850W. Everything worked great and > the flight was gorgeous! The unofficial altitude report was 15,300'. > > Robert Killen of Bend was kind enough to post this video on youtube: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDWEyClUc > > The sustainer was recovered 1.3 miles from the flight line and about 50' > off > the road to the highway. Booster was recovered about half that distance > out. > > > Project was totally scratch built by a commitee (no small feat!). Airframe > is 4.5" and rocket is just over 13' tall. Pad weight was about 56 pounds. > Booster chute was deployed by a timer. The sustainer motor was fired by > another timer in the sustainer e-bay. Two altimeters deployed the chutes. > Both stages had Beeline tracking and Greg Clark loaned a GPS tracker to > ride > in the second stage. > > The whole team had grins the rest of the day! > > Weather for the launch was great, it seemed more like July than May. > Temps. > were well into the 80's and winds were genrally very light with some > thermal > activity. Attendance seemed pretty good with a couple of scout groups > keeping the pads busy. > > Saw lots of sunburned, happy rocketeers. > > Rod Moorehead > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun May 17 18:14:31 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 18:14:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Word to the Wise References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair><002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$%Dennis42@comcast.net><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA9C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><010101c9d4d7$e67e8c00$b37ba400$@net><247f01c9d4df$1d0a9c80$571fd580$@com><16D4CEAA571243E4B3B8F7B11E4DCAD6@DANE> Message-ID: <38E1355680C34EB1A4A9C45212DDB5A0@LaptopKrausert> I did the best I could. ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roberts" To: "Moorehead" Cc: "NW Rocketry" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Word to the Wise > > > On May 15, 2009, at 9:59, Moorehead wrote: >> >> >> There will probably be a few "lobsters" by Sunday afternoon. > >> > I predict: Krausert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From greg at bigredbee.com Sun May 17 21:09:22 2009 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 21:09:22 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Google Earth and Brothers Message-ID: Google now has 'street view' of hwy 20 in front of the gate at the Brothers launch site. Check it out! -- Greg ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Greg Clark Date: May 17, 2009 9:06 PM Subject: Google Earth Placemark To: greg at bigredbee.com Google Earth streams the world over wired and wireless networks enabling users to virtually go anywhere on the planet and see places in photographic detail. This is not like any map you have ever seen. This is a 3D model of the real world, based on real satellite images combined with maps, guides to restaurants, hotels, entertainment, businesses and more. You can zoom from space to street level instantly and then pan or jump from place to place, city to city, even country to country. Get Google Earth. Put the world in perspective. (http://earth.google.com) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GoogleEarth_Placemark.kmz Type: application/vnd.google-earth.kmz Size: 616 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/rockets/attachments/20090517/c063c231/attachment.kmz From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Mon May 18 00:56:53 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 00:56:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Update..... INDY 500 Contest..... 4th annual Message-ID: Returning this year..... That's right race fans, In honor of the Indy 500, we will be having our 4th annual INDY 500 raffle at our booth at FITS! Come by Saturday from 10-7pm, and with any purchase of $25 or more, you get to pick one of the 33 drivers and if your driver wins on Sunday, you win a $40 gift certificate! If your driver comes in second, a $15 gift certificate, your driver comes in third, a $10 gift certificate. Only one driver name can be chosen per person, so no multiple purchases. So bring your family by and increase your chances. Al prizes to be awarded after the race. Sorry, pre-orders do not count. So who will it be? Scott Dixon, Marco Andretti, AJ Foyt IV, maybe Danica Patrick or Sarah Fisher? Don't miss it. Must be present to win. Purchase can be anything from the booth, including rocket stuff, shirts and astronomy stuff. We will have the race broadcast set up live in our booth, so come by and see how your favorite driver is doing!!! Looking forward to seeing you all up at FITS! -------------- next part -------------- FITS Update..... INDY 500 Contest..... 4th annual Returning this year..... That's right race fans, In honor of the Indy 500, we will be having our 4th annual INDY 500 raffle at our booth at FITS! ? Come by Saturday from 10-7pm, and with any purchase of $25 or more, you get to pick one of the 33 drivers and if your driver wins on Sunday, you win a $40 gift certificate! If your driver comes in second, a $15 gift certificate, your driver comes in third, a $10 gift certificate. Only one driver name can be chosen per person, so no multiple purchases. So bring your family by and increase your chances. Al prizes to be awarded after the race. Sorry, pre-orders do not count. So who will it be? Scott Dixon, Marco Andretti, AJ Foyt IV, maybe Danica Patrick or Sarah Fisher? Don't miss it. Must be present to win. Purchase can be anything from the booth, including rocket stuff, shirts and astronomy stuff. We will have the race broadcast set up live in our booth, so come by and see how your favorite driver is doing!!! Looking forward to seeing you all up at FITS! From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon May 18 01:26:09 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 01:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket In-Reply-To: <8CDBB87B-1886-4425-B787-1503C0F0202E@comcast.net> References: <85D4B780-B60C-4952-A5A8-4B6C7ECA9001@comcast.net> <000001c9d496$7b81d920$72858b60$@newman@comcast.net> <8CDBB87B-1886-4425-B787-1503C0F0202E@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5730a1886962c2471e06ad501cd9d128.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> The math for modeling spin-stabilized rockets is an utterly, absolutely, gawdawful horrible mess of partial differential equations. And that's if you have the good sense to use numeric solution algorithms. And of course in the presence of perturbing forces spin stabilization, like fins, doesn't actually keep the rocket pointing in the initial direction. You have to balance the rocket so its CG is precisely on the spin axis and look at precession at every point during the flight with changing parameters. Recommended procedure is to spin it up like crazy and do trial-and-error testing way the hell out in the middle of nowhere, like the middle of Black Rock. I think most folks would be surprised to see how many RPMs it takes to keep a rocket stable at near-Mach speeds. Faster spin than bullets. Oh, and don't forget that rapidly spinning solid fuel motors changes their thrust-time curve. Start with Estes mini-motors. Seriously. +McG+ > On May 14, 2009, at 6:18 AM, Kent Newman wrote: > On another subject, can you tell me anything about spin > stabilization??Resource materials on spin induced from platforms, > launchers, tabs, fins,?etc.? Equations would be good, too. ?I'm wrestling > with spin: not too?little, not too much, but, JUST right when it really > means something a?lower altitudes and doesn't create restrictive drag. > It's certainly something we can go over although there is no equation for > "just right". ?At the speeds our rockets fly, you'd need **extremely** > fine angular positioning if you are using something like canted fins or > the rotation rate will be ridiculous. > On May 14, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial > differential equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am pretty > sure I am immune to them anyway. > That's a relief because I forgot how to do them quite a while ago. > What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we build > into these things is really required. In general, for smaller rockets, the > structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the same thing -- we > have a motor mount tube, centering rings, and a tube all tied together > into a fairly rigid structure. As thing scale up, it seems like most > projects maintain this basic design. What I am thinking about is how much > I can divorce the structural/strength part from the aerodynamic skin part. > The overall rocket must be able to take the abuse of takeoff and > acceleration, and that part I feel fairly confident about since it is > pretty straightforward to see how the force gerts applied and is > transferred. Where I am less certain is in how much requirement there is > for the outer skin?to be strong and/or rigid. An area I am particularly > dumb about is what happens at the transition to supersonic flight. > Your comments lead at least 10 different useful topics to spring into my > mind. ?We'll have to decide where to focus our efforts. ?But structural > strength is my speciality so we can certainly go over how to optimize > that.? > ? > My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that are > lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on them. > Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :) > There may be a little math, but probably noting beyond Algebra I. ?One of > the unknowns with cutting it too close to the edge is that we are not > using aerospace materials here. ?That means that there can be a lot of > scatter in the strength of our base materials. One phenolic tube or > filament wound glass tube may be significantly stronger or weaker than > another. > On May 14, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Adrian L Carbine wrote: > Hi Eric, > ? > I would love to sit in on that little discussion!! Unfortunately, I can't > be at FITS... > ? > I'm not afraid of partial DiffEq, although they aren't my favorite pastime > either :-). But I do get a bit frustrated by my lack of aeronautical > engineering knowledge, compared to my day job engineering and architecting > microprocessors (I'm a senior principal engineer at Intel, in our main > microprocessor design team), and the lack of affordable/good CAE tools.?At > work I'm spoiled by massive amounts of compute horsepower and good > simulation & validation tools capable of handling circuit designs composed > of billions of transistors and wires. But in my workshop at home I'm > limited to my own experience and some gut feel from my love of making > things all my life... > I have lots of computing power at work too, but it turns out that gut feel > built on experience is often more valuable. ?The computing tools I use at > work like CATIA for CAD or Abaqus for finite element modeling tend to run > about $30,000 per seat per year. ?Not exactly in most of our budgets. > ? > I wish I could augment the practical experience with a little more applied > math. Aside from a whole bunch of university math, physics, and > chemistry?classes, I have limited education in aeronautical engineering > --- just some introductory classes I took?in thermodynamics, statics and > dynamics, etc. But not nearly enough to calculate how many layers of > carbon fiber I really need. I have the introductory Anderson text, and I > like it a lot, but what I would really love is the next level of > equations, some wisdom about where they apply and where they don't (what > most newbie's miss), and better design tools. Lacking these, my airframe > designs usually fall slightly into the "overbuilt" category. I usually err > on that side because it is more important to me to get the rocket back in > flyable condition than to set some kind of record. I don't have the time > or the money to experiment with how close to the edge I can get, as > interesting as that would be. > If you are going to err on one side or the other, the side of caution > makes more sense. ?However if you are going for optimum performance then > this won't get you any records. ?Personally, I'm interesting in building > light for more practical reasons than just altitude or speed. ?The light > rocket is cheaper to build, easier to carry, and doesn't need as big a > motor to fly to the same level. ?All wins in my book. > If you **really** want to know how many layers of carbon fiber you need, > then I'm afraid there is a lot more math in your future. ?In fact, most of > the advanced composite analytical methods are export controlled so I can't > even talk about them. > Trial by error is certainly the way some folks do it, even those at a > fairly high level. ?I remember watching a show on the Discovery Channel > once where John Force and his team were trying to beat a land speed > record. ?They were talking about the engine and showed a quick image of > the pistons. ?I took one look at them and thought, "ouch, those are going > to fracture right on that edge". ? Five minutes later in the show they > were tearing the engine down because that exact thing had happened. ?They > hadn't actually done any simulation, they just tweaked the design and > tried again. > ? > Anyway, I think it is great that you have the tools and knowledge to do > amazing things with this hobby. I think there are a few of us, not many, > but a few that would be willing to? > pay > ?you to teach us about airframe engineering! Since that probably won't > happen, feel free to copy me on any technical or practical > comments/advice/Q&A you shell out to other people. I would welcome the > input! > Well, I do like money!, but so many people have helped me for free over > the years that it would not be right to charge for such a thing. ?Maybe > somebody will take notes for you! > On May 14, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > Tough proposition. ?From my limited research the main problems occur > at??initial boost and then at maximum dynamic pressure which for many of > the??smaller rockets are the same. ?Going transonic causes a whole other > level??of problems as does any prolonged time above mach as the rocket > body starts??to heat. ?In my experimentation which is nowhere near as > complete as??Eric's, about the best single modification that can be made > is to have the??motor connected to a thrust bulkhead. ?This reduces the > inertial forces as??the only weight that needs be supported at the > bulkhead is that from the?nose to the bulkhead rather than from the nose > to a motor mount in the tail??and the portion of the rocket behind the > bulkhead is just being pulled??along for the ride so the main force there > is the drag. ?The main obstacle?to this approach is that motors come in > different length cases so once you??fix the bulkhead that rocket is built > for that case unless you use internal??struts or supports when launching > on smaller motors. ?Other than that I??have found it to be a very > difficult proposition to make the rocket as??light as possible and still > retain stability through the high performance??barriers. ?There are > endless examples of structural failures because too?much weight was trying > to be saved. ?It's like waterproofing a??surface. ?The water, or in our > case the force of the air, will find its way??into any imperfections. > ??????? > You make some good points here. ?It turns out that the really ugly > formulas like the Navier-Stokes equations are almost never solved in > closed form. ?They are just too complicated because they account for > everything. ?But most engineering can be done by eliminating ?a number of > the variables to simplify. ?For example, you can consider that an aircraft > is at steady state; all the forces are balanced statically. ?This means > you can take out all the differentials that are a function of time. ?For > speeds sufficiently subsonic, you can also assume the air in > incompressible which eliminates all the functions of density. ?But despite > the fact that our rockets **seem** a lot simpler than airplanes, > analytically they are not. ?For instance, our rockets are never at steady > state. ?They are either accelerating during boost or decelerating during > coast. ?That means time is always important. ?And they fly fast enough > that compressibility cannot be ignored. ?As if that weren't enough, the > weight changes with time as the fuel burns, and not by a trivial amount. > ?Then for high altitude flights, there's also the fact that air density > changes with altitude. ?Even the change in ambient temperature effects the > Mach number which is a big deal for supersonic flights. ?So it's all about > knowing what matters and what you can ignore. > On May 14, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Michael Dennis wrote: > Dropped the list - when you two get together to discuss I'd love to > listen/chime in some. ?I'll bring some beer if you like :-) > Sounds like this matter has grown considerably beyond the initial concept! > ?If I'm not careful I'll find myself preparing an outline with a list of > topics. ?If this is really something people like, maybe we should set up a > regular meeting/class where we all sit around and go over a > topic,?preferably?over pizza and adult?beverages. ?Everyone has their area > of expertise whether it be structures, aero, electronics, photography, > etc. > Eric Albrecht > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon May 18 01:41:30 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 01:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 day deadline for ATF appeal expires today, May 17 In-Reply-To: References: <53111.42140.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Remember you still need a permit to buy ematches and many chemicals of use in Research rocketry. If I can fly my hybrid this year I'm still going to need a LEUP buddy for the ematches, or else build a solid-state output relay to add onto the altimeter or get creative in making a DIY ematch substitute. +McG+ > It has struck me that, as of today, 60 days has elapsed since the ruling > against the ATF which vacated the controls on APCP. Has anyone heard > anything regarding the ATF's response w/i the timeline? Does this mean we > no may assume APCP is not controlled via the ATF, and therefore not > requiring a license, although obviously the DoT and the safety folks would > maintain their interest? I'm just wondering given my LEUP expires on June > 15th and I am holding onto my completed package without mailing it since > it > seems it may be irrelevant. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Mon May 18 09:26:13 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:26:13 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 day deadline for ATF appeal expires today, May 17 In-Reply-To: References: <53111.42140.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990DD619@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> what *required* chemicals are you specifically refering to???? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:42 AM To: Gwen Moscoe Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 day deadline for ATF appeal expires today, May 17 Remember you still need a permit to buy ematches and many chemicals of use in Research rocketry. If I can fly my hybrid this year I'm still going to need a LEUP buddy for the ematches, or else build a solid-state output relay to add onto the altimeter or get creative in making a DIY ematch substitute. +McG+ > It has struck me that, as of today, 60 days has elapsed since the ruling > against the ATF which vacated the controls on APCP. Has anyone heard > anything regarding the ATF's response w/i the timeline? Does this mean we > no may assume APCP is not controlled via the ATF, and therefore not > requiring a license, although obviously the DoT and the safety folks would > maintain their interest? I'm just wondering given my LEUP expires on June > 15th and I am holding onto my completed package without mailing it since > it > seems it may be irrelevant. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Mon May 18 10:12:11 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:12:11 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket Message-ID: When I end up in Hell some day, "...an utterly, absolutely, gawdawful horrible mess of partial differential equations" will be how they torment me. -----Original Message----- From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 01:26 AM To: 'Rockets Northwest' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket The math for modeling spin-stabilized rockets is an utterly, absolutely,gawdawful horrible mess of partial differential equations. And that's ifyou have the good sense to use numeric solution algorithms.And of course in the presence of perturbing forces spin stabilization,like fins, doesn't actually keep the rocket pointing in the initialdirection. You have to balance the rocket so its CG is precisely on thespin axis and look at precession at every point during the flight withchanging parameters.Recommended procedure is to spin it up like crazy and do trial-and-errortesting way the hell out in the middle of nowhere, like the middle ofBlack Rock. I think most folks would be surprised to see how many RPMs ittakes to keep a rocket stable at near-Mach speeds. Faster spin thanbullets.Oh, and don't forget that rapidly spinning solid fuel motors changes theirthrust-time curve.Start with Estes mini-motors. Seriously.+McG+> On May 14, 2009, at 6:18 AM, Kent Newman wrote:> On another subject, can you tell me anything about spin> stabilization? Resource materials on spin induced from platforms,> launchers, tabs, fins, etc.? Equations would be good, too. I'm wrestling> with spin: not too little, not too much, but, JUST right when it really> means something a lower altitudes and doesn't create restrictive drag.> It's certainly something we can go over although there is no equation for> "just right". At the speeds our rockets fly, you'd need **extremely**> fine angular positioning if you are using something like canted fins or> the rotation rate will be ridiculous.> On May 14, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Scott Berfield wrote:> I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial> differential equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am pretty> sure I am immune to them anyway.> That's a relief because I forgot how to do them quite a while ago.> What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we build> into these things is really required. In general, for smaller rockets, the> structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the same thing -- we> have a motor mount tube, centering rings, and a tube all tied together> into a fairly rigid structure. As thing scale up, it seems like most> projects maintain this basic design. What I am thinking about is how much> I can divorce the structural/strength part from the aerodynamic skin part.> The overall rocket must be able to take the abuse of takeoff and> acceleration, and that part I feel fairly confident about since it is> pretty straightforward to see how the force gerts applied and is> transferred. Where I am less certain is in how much requirement there is> for the outer skin to be strong and/or rigid. An area I am particularly> dumb about is what happens at the transition to supersonic flight.> Your comments lead at least 10 different useful topics to spring into my> mind. We'll have to decide where to focus our efforts. But structural> strength is my speciality so we can certainly go over how to optimize> that. > > My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that are> lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on them.> Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :)> There may be a little math, but probably noting beyond Algebra I. One of> the unknowns with cutting it too close to the edge is that we are not> using aerospace materials here. That means that there can be a lot of> scatter in the strength of our base materials. One phenolic tube or> filament wound glass tube may be significantly stronger or weaker than> another.> On May 14, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Adrian L Carbine wrote:> Hi Eric,> > I would love to sit in on that little discussion!! Unfortunately, I can't> be at FITS...> > I'm not afraid of partial DiffEq, although they aren't my favorite pastime> either :-). But I do get a bit frustrated by my lack of aeronautical> engineering knowledge, compared to my day job engineering and architecting> microprocessors (I'm a senior principal engineer at Intel, in our main> microprocessor design team), and the lack of affordable/good CAE tools. At> work I'm spoiled by massive amounts of compute horsepower and good> simulation & validation tools capable of handling circuit designs composed> of billions of transistors and wires. But in my workshop at home I'm> limited to my own experience and some gut feel from my love of making> things all my life...> I have lots of computing power at work too, but it turns out that gut feel> built on experience is often more valuable. The computing tools I use at> work like CATIA for CAD or Abaqus for finite element modeling tend to run> about $30,000 per seat per year. Not exactly in most of our budgets.> > I wish I could augment the practical experience with a little more applied> math. Aside from a whole bunch of university math, physics, and> chemistry classes, I have limited education in aeronautical engineering> --- just some introductory classes I took in thermodynamics, statics and> dynamics, etc. But not nearly enough to calculate how many layers of> carbon fiber I really need. I have the introductory Anderson text, and I> like it a lot, but what I would really love is the next level of> equations, some wisdom about where they apply and where they don't (what> most newbie's miss), and better design tools. Lacking these, my airframe> designs usually fall slightly into the "overbuilt" category. I usually err> on that side because it is more important to me to get the rocket back in> flyable condition than to set some kind of record. I don't have the time> or the money to experiment with how close to the edge I can get, as> interesting as that would be.> If you are going to err on one side or the other, the side of caution> makes more sense. However if you are going for optimum performance then> this won't get you any records. Personally, I'm interesting in building> light for more practical reasons than just altitude or speed. The light> rocket is cheaper to build, easier to carry, and doesn't need as big a> motor to fly to the same level. All wins in my book.> If you **really** want to know how many layers of carbon fiber you need,> then I'm afraid there is a lot more math in your future. In fact, most of> the advanced composite analytical methods are export controlled so I can't> even talk about them.> Trial by error is certainly the way some folks do it, even those at a> fairly high level. I remember watching a show on the Discovery Channel> once where John Force and his team were trying to beat a land speed> record. They were talking about the engine and showed a quick image of> the pistons. I took one look at them and thought, "ouch, those are going> to fracture right on that edge". Five minutes later in the show they> were tearing the engine down because that exact thing had happened. They> hadn't actually done any simulation, they just tweaked the design and> tried again.> > Anyway, I think it is great that you have the tools and knowledge to do> amazing things with this hobby. I think there are a few of us, not many,> but a few that would be willing to > pay> you to teach us about airframe engineering! Since that probably won't> happen, feel free to copy me on any technical or practical> comments/advice/Q&A you shell out to other people. I would welcome the> input!> Well, I do like money!, but so many people have helped me for free over> the years that it would not be right to charge for such a thing. Maybe> somebody will take notes for you!> On May 14, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote:> Tough proposition. From my limited research the main problems occur> at initial boost and then at maximum dynamic pressure which for many of> the smaller rockets are the same. Going transonic causes a whole other> level of problems as does any prolonged time above mach as the rocket> body starts to heat. In my experimentation which is nowhere near as> complete as Eric's, about the best single modification that can be made> is to have the motor connected to a thrust bulkhead. This reduces the> inertial forces as the only weight that needs be supported at the> bulkhead is that from the nose to the bulkhead rather than from the nose> to a motor mount in the tail and the portion of the rocket behind the> bulkhead is just being pulled along for the ride so the main force there> is the drag. The main obstacle to this approach is that motors come in> different length cases so once you fix the bulkhead that rocket is built> for that case unless you use internal struts or supports when launching> on smaller motors. Other than that I have found it to be a very> difficult proposition to make the rocket as light as possible and still> retain stability through the high performance barriers. There are> endless examples of structural failures because too much weight was trying> to be saved. It's like waterproofing a surface. The water, or in our> case the force of the air, will find its way into any imperfections.> > You make some good points here. It turns out that the really ugly> formulas like the Navier-Stokes equations are almost never solved in> closed form. They are just too complicated because they account for> everything. But most engineering can be done by eliminating a number of> the variables to simplify. For example, you can consider that an aircraft> is at steady state; all the forces are balanced statically. This means> you can take out all the differentials that are a function of time. For> speeds sufficiently subsonic, you can also assume the air in> incompressible which eliminates all the functions of density. But despite> the fact that our rockets **seem** a lot simpler than airplanes,> analytically they are not. For instance, our rockets are never at steady> state. They are either accelerating during boost or decelerating during> coast. That means time is always important. And they fly fast enough> that compressibility cannot be ignored. As if that weren't enough, the> weight changes with time as the fuel burns, and not by a trivial amount.> Then for high altitude flights, there's also the fact that air density> changes with altitude. Even the change in ambient temperature effects the> Mach number which is a big deal for supersonic flights. So it's all about> knowing what matters and what you can ignore.> On May 14, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Michael Dennis wrote:> Dropped the list - when you two get together to discuss I'd love to> listen/chime in some. I'll bring some beer if you like :-)> Sounds like this matter has grown considerably beyond the initial concept!> If I'm not careful I'll find myself preparing an outline with a list of> topics. If this is really something people like, maybe we should set up a> regular meeting/class where we all sit around and go over a> topic, preferably over pizza and adult beverages. Everyone has their area> of expertise whether it be structures, aero, electronics, photography,> etc.> Eric Albrecht> _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets>_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- When I end up in Hell some day, " ...an utterly, absolutely, gawdawful horrible mess of partial differential equations" will be how they torment me. ? -----Original Message----- From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 01:26 AM To: 'Rockets Northwest' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] stresses on a rocket The math for modeling spin-stabilized rockets is an utterly, absolutely, gawdawful horrible mess of partial differential equations. And that's if you have the good sense to use numeric solution algorithms. And of course in the presence of perturbing forces spin stabilization, like fins, doesn't actually keep the rocket pointing in the initial direction. You have to balance the rocket so its CG is precisely on the spin axis and look at precession at every point during the flight with changing parameters. Recommended procedure is to spin it up like crazy and do trial-and-error testing way the hell out in the middle of nowhere, like the middle of Black Rock. I think most folks would be surprised to see how many RPMs it takes to keep a rocket stable at near-Mach speeds. Faster spin than bullets. Oh, and don't forget that rapidly spinning solid fuel motors changes their thrust-time curve. Start with Estes mini-motors. Seriously. +McG+ > On May 14, 2009, at 6:18 AM, Kent Newman wrote: > On another subject, can you tell me anything about spin > stabilization??Resource materials on spin induced from platforms, > launchers, tabs, fins,?etc.? Equations would be good, too. ?I'm wrestling > with spin: not too?little, not too much, but, JUST right when it really > means something a?lower altitudes and doesn't create restrictive drag. > It's certainly something we can go over although there is no equation for > "just right". ?At the speeds our rockets fly, you'd need **extremely** > fine angular positioning if you are using something like canted fins or > the rotation rate will be ridiculous. > On May 14, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Scott Berfield wrote: > I can guarantee that I want nothing whatsoever to do with partial > differential equations. I have managed to avoid them so for and am pretty > sure I am immune to them anyway. > That's a relief because I forgot how to do them quite a while ago. > What I am trying to do is to clarify in my mind how much of what we build > into these things is really required. In general, for smaller rockets, the > structure and the aerodynamic skin are pretty much the same thing -- we > have a motor mount tube, centering rings, and a tube all tied together > into a fairly rigid structure. As thing scale up, it seems like most > projects maintain this basic design. What I am thinking about is how much > I can divorce the structural/strength part from the aerodynamic skin part. > The overall rocket must be able to take the abuse of takeoff and > acceleration, and that part I feel fairly confident about since it is > pretty straightforward to see how the force gerts applied and is > transferred. Where I am less certain is in how much requirement there is > for the outer skin?to be strong and/or rigid. An area I am particularly > dumb about is what happens at the transition to supersonic flight. > Your comments lead at least 10 different useful topics to spring into my > mind. ?We'll have to decide where to focus our efforts. ?But structural > strength is my speciality so we can certainly go over how to optimize > that.? > ? > My goal is to see what I can do to come up with larger rockets that are > lighter and use less material yet still can handle the forces on them. > Hopefully mostly without having to learn more math :) > There may be a little math, but probably noting beyond Algebra I. ?One of > the unknowns with cutting it too close to the edge is that we are not > using aerospace materials here. ?That means that there can be a lot of > scatter in the strength of our base materials. One phenolic tube or > filament wound glass tube may be significantly stronger or weaker than > another. > On May 14, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Adrian L Carbine wrote: > Hi Eric, > ? > I would love to sit in on that little discussion!! Unfortunately, I can't > be at FITS... > ? > I'm not afraid of partial DiffEq, although they aren't my favorite pastime > either :-). But I do get a bit frustrated by my lack of aeronautical > engineering knowledge, compared to my day job engineering and architecting > microprocessors (I'm a senior principal engineer at Intel, in our main > microprocessor design team), and the lack of affordable/good CAE tools.?At > work I'm spoiled by massive amounts of compute horsepower and good > simulation & validation tools capable of handling circuit designs composed > of billions of transistors and wires. But in my workshop at home I'm > limited to my own experience and some gut feel from my love of making > things all my life... > I have lots of computing power at work too, but it turns out that gut feel > built on experience is often more valuable. ?The computing tools I use at > work like CATIA for CAD or Abaqus for finite element modeling tend to run > about $30,000 per seat per year. ?Not exactly in most of our budgets. > ? > I wish I could augment the practical experience with a little more applied > math. Aside from a whole bunch of university math, physics, and > chemistry?classes, I have limited education in aeronautical engineering > --- just some introductory classes I took?in thermodynamics, statics and > dynamics, etc. But not nearly enough to calculate how many layers of > carbon fiber I really need. I have the introductory Anderson text, and I > like it a lot, but what I would really love is the next level of > equations, some wisdom about where they apply and where they don't (what > most newbie's miss), and better design tools. Lacking these, my airframe > designs usually fall slightly into the "overbuilt" category. I usually err > on that side because it is more important to me to get the rocket back in > flyable condition than to set some kind of record. I don't have the time > or the money to experiment with how close to the edge I can get, as > interesting as that would be. > If you are going to err on one side or the other, the side of caution > makes more sense. ?However if you are going for optimum performance then > this won't get you any records. ?Personally, I'm interesting in building > light for more practical reasons than just altitude or speed. ?The light > rocket is cheaper to build, easier to carry, and doesn't need as big a > motor to fly to the same level. ?All wins in my book. > If you **really** want to know how many layers of carbon fiber you need, > then I'm afraid there is a lot more math in your future. ?In fact, most of > the advanced composite analytical methods are export controlled so I can't > even talk about them. > Trial by error is certainly the way some folks do it, even those at a > fairly high level. ?I remember watching a show on the Discovery Channel > once where John Force and his team were trying to beat a land speed > record. ?They were talking about the engine and showed a quick image of > the pistons. ?I took one look at them and thought, "ouch, those are going > to fracture right on that edge". ? Five minutes later in the show they > were tearing the engine down because that exact thing had happened. ?They > hadn't actually done any simulation, they just tweaked the design and > tried again. > ? > Anyway, I think it is great that you have the tools and knowledge to do > amazing things with this hobby. I think there are a few of us, not many, > but a few that would be willing to? > pay > ?you to teach us about airframe engineering! Since that probably won't > happen, feel free to copy me on any technical or practical > comments/advice/Q&A you shell out to other people. I would welcome the > input! > Well, I do like money!, but so many people have helped me for free over > the years that it would not be right to charge for such a thing. ?Maybe > somebody will take notes for you! > On May 14, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > Tough proposition. ?From my limited research the main problems occur > at??initial boost and then at maximum dynamic pressure which for many of > the??smaller rockets are the same. ?Going transonic causes a whole other > level??of problems as does any prolonged time above mach as the rocket > body starts??to heat. ?In my experimentation which is nowhere near as > complete as??Eric's, about the best single modification that can be made > is to have the??motor connected to a thrust bulkhead. ?This reduces the > inertial forces as??the only weight that needs be supported at the > bulkhead is that from the?nose to the bulkhead rather than from the nose > to a motor mount in the tail??and the portion of the rocket behind the > bulkhead is just being pulled??along for the ride so the main force there > is the drag. ?The main obstacle?to this approach is that motors come in > different length cases so once you??fix the bulkhead that rocket is built > for that case unless you use internal??struts or supports when launching > on smaller motors. ?Other than that I??have found it to be a very > difficult proposition to make the rocket as??light as possible and still > retain stability through the high performance??barriers. ?There are > endless examples of structural failures because too?much weight was trying > to be saved. ?It's like waterproofing a??surface. ?The water, or in our > case the force of the air, will find its way??into any imperfections. > ??????? > You make some good points here. ?It turns out that the really ugly > formulas like the Navier-Stokes equations are almost never solved in > closed form. ?They are just too complicated because they account for > everything. ?But most engineering can be done by eliminating ?a number of > the variables to simplify. ?For example, you can consider that an aircraft > is at steady state; all the forces are balanced statically. ?This means > you can take out all the differentials that are a function of time. ?For > speeds sufficiently subsonic, you can also assume the air in > incompressible which eliminates all the functions of density. ?But despite > the fact that our rockets **seem** a lot simpler than airplanes, > analytically they are not. ?For instance, our rockets are never at steady > state. ?They are either accelerating during boost or decelerating during > coast. ?That means time is always important. ?And they fly fast enough > that compressibility cannot be ignored. ?As if that weren't enough, the > weight changes with time as the fuel burns, and not by a trivial amount. > ?Then for high altitude flights, there's also the fact that air density > changes with altitude. ?Even the change in ambient temperature effects the > Mach number which is a big deal for supersonic flights. ?So it's all about > knowing what matters and what you can ignore. > On May 14, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Michael Dennis wrote: > Dropped the list - when you two get together to discuss I'd love to > listen/chime in some. ?I'll bring some beer if you like :-) > Sounds like this matter has grown considerably beyond the initial concept! > ?If I'm not careful I'll find myself preparing an outline with a list of > topics. ?If this is really something people like, maybe we should set up a > regular meeting/class where we all sit around and go over a > topic,?preferably?over pizza and adult?beverages. ?Everyone has their area > of expertise whether it be structures, aero, electronics, photography, > etc. > Eric Albrecht > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Mon May 18 10:11:31 2009 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:11:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] O-Ring source around Portland In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello All! Getting ready for FITS and realized I'm almost out of o-rings. Where-o-where is the best place to buy them around town? Need 38mm, 54mm & 75mm. Thanks! Peter! From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Mon May 18 10:33:05 2009 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Word to the Wise In-Reply-To: <38E1355680C34EB1A4A9C45212DDB5A0@LaptopKrausert> References: <1042751858.8970461242320310170.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><1758062536.8978941242321193793.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><268B2782F5D94F4C80869A93C699524C@downstair><002f01c9d4cf$61694ee0$243beca0$%Dennis42@comcast.net><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA9C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><010101c9d4d7$e67e8c00$b37ba400$@net><247f01c9d4df$1d0a9c80$571fd580$@com><16D4CEAA571243E4B3B8F7B11E4DCAD6@DANE> <38E1355680C34EB1A4A9C45212DDB5A0@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <946405.58054.qm@web110203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Robert now sports that Surf Beyond the Turf look. :o) By the time Mark G and I turned out the lights and locked the doors there was many more worst off. Thanks for a fun weekend Robert. And all the rest that made it happen. John and Trenton Hornsby ________________________________ From: Robert Krausert To: John Roberts ; Moorehead Cc: NW Rocketry Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:14:31 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Word to the Wise I did the best I could. ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roberts" To: "Moorehead" Cc: "NW Rocketry" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Word to the Wise > > > On May 15, 2009, at 9:59, Moorehead wrote: >> >> >> There will probably be a few "lobsters" by Sunday afternoon. > >> > I predict: Krausert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Robert now sports that Surf Beyond the Turf look. :o) By the time Mark G and I turned out the lights and locked the doors there was many more worst off. ? Thanks for a fun weekend Robert. And all the rest that made it happen. ? John and Trenton Hornsby From: Robert Krausert To: John Roberts ; Moorehead Cc: NW Rocketry Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:14:31 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Word to the Wise I did the best I could. ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roberts" < mailto:jpr602 at mac.com jpr602 at mac.com > To: "Moorehead" < mailto:rcdm at outlawnet.com rcdm at outlawnet.com > Cc: "NW Rocketry" < mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brothers Launch Word to the Wise > > > On May 15, 2009, at 9:59, Moorehead < mailto:rcdm at outlawnet.com rcdm at outlawnet.com > wrote: >> >> >> There will probably be a few "lobsters" by Sunday afternoon. > >> > I predict: Krausert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From carl at mousetrap.com Mon May 18 11:11:40 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:11:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fire in the Sky online registration (again) Message-ID: If you don't plan to attend Fire in the Sky this year or if you have already registered online, you can stop reading now. This weekend's weather forecast for Mansfield is looking good! Have you registered for Fire in the Sky yet? Even if you would rather pay membership dues or range fees with cash or a check, registering online will make your check-in process quicker, getting you out to the pads sooner. If you haven't already done so, please go to http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php to register online. Feel free to select payment by cash or check; we will gladly accept your range fees at check-in time. The confirmation email you receive will include a link to another online form that you can use to print a custom (aka legible) liability waiver form. Please print the resulting waiver, sign it, and bring it with you to the launch. Again, if you have any questions about membership or registration, please feel free to email me. Thanks. - Carl -------------- next part -------------- This weekend's weather forecast for Mansfield is looking good! Have you registered for Fire in the Sky yet? Even if you would rather pay membership dues or range fees with cash or a check, registering online will make your check-in process quicker, getting you out to the pads sooner. If you haven't already done so, please go to? http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php ?to register online. Feel free to select payment by cash or check; we will gladly accept your range fees at check-in time. The confirmation email you receive will include a link to another online form that you can use to print a custom (aka legible) liability waiver form. Please print the resulting waiver, sign it, and bring it with you to the launch. Again, if you have any questions about membership or registration, please feel free to email me. Thanks. ?- Carl From carl at mousetrap.com Mon May 18 11:20:25 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:20:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Level 2 written exams at FITS Message-ID: If you plan to take the NAR level 2 written exam at FITS, please send me email so that I'm sure to have enough tests on hand. Even if you told me in the recent past that you want to take the test, I would still appreciate a message as a reminder. If you plan to take the TRA level 2 written exam, you should probably touch base with Brad Wright for the same reasons. Thanks. - Carl -------------- next part -------------- If you plan to take the TRA level 2 written exam, you should probably touch base with Brad Wright for the same reasons. Thanks. ?- Carl From jim at jmw29221.com Mon May 18 12:07:56 2009 From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:07:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS HPR competition events Message-ID: Greetings all - just a brief reminder that WAC will be running three of the new NAR HPR competition events this year at FITS: I Timed Recovery (54mm minimum body diameter; recovery time multiplied by a factor of 10) J Multiple Eggloft H-K Upscale Complete rules for the events are here: http://www.nar.org/pdf/HPR%20Sporting%20Code%20(NAR)%202009%20Edition.pdf If you're interested in any of these events, please do 2 things: First - read the rules over thoroughly Second - let me know off-list if you're interested in participating, (especially for J Multiple Eggloft, and include the number of eggs you'll want to fly) Right now the plan is to have two 1-hr windows on Saturday, 1200-1300 for I Timed Recovery and 1300-1400 for J Multiple Eggloft. The Upscale models will be flown from 1100-1200 on Sunday, with judging on Saturday evening. We'll review the information at the Saturday and Sunday fliers' meeting. Let me know if you have questions, but please read the rules over first before asking how the events will work. Regards Jim Wilkerson From jjcllc03 at aol.com Mon May 18 12:11:26 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:11:26 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] 4 inch diameter Nike Smoke Message-ID: <8CBA603935E0582-16A8-1584@WEBMAIL-MY23.sysops.aol.com> Team BORG, congratulations on your spectacular WAC Corporal flight! As an aside, I was wondering if anyone found my 4 inch Nike Smoke fiberglass rocket this weekend in the sage?? I lost it last October. Thanks! Jack Caynon -------------- next part -------------- Team BORG, congratulations on your spectacular WAC Corporal flight! As an aside, I was wondering if anyone found my 4 inch Nike Smoke fiberglass rocket this weekend in the sage?? I lost it last October. Thanks! Jack Caynon A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=115%26bcd=Mayfooter51809NO115 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! From t.j.doll at att.net Mon May 18 13:24:50 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:24:50 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Update..... INDY 500 Contest..... 4th annual Message-ID: <051820092024.14328.4A11C41200041207000037F822230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> You are going to make it tough on me..... The DVR is set to record the race, and I do NOT what to know what happens before I get home and watch the race on Monday...... Tim >Returning this year..... >That's right race fans, > >In honor of the Indy 500, we will be having our 4th annual INDY 500 >raffle at our booth at FITS! -------------- next part -------------- You are going to make it tough on me..... ? The DVR is set to record the race, and I do NOT what to know what happens before I get home and watch the race on Monday...... ? Tim ? >Returning this year..... >That's right race fans, > >In honor of the Indy 500, we will be having our 4th annual INDY 500 >raffle at our booth at FITS! From jim at jmw29221.com Mon May 18 13:33:13 2009 From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:33:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] FITS HPR competition events In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <595a3d3f86ecd44786a5ac3b6bb2be3f@mx1.blastzone.com> One more comment - I apologize for conflicting guidance earlier on who can participate. Despite what the official NAR rules say, any NAR or TRA member flying at FITS, with the appropriate certification level, may participate in the competitions. Regards Jim On Mon, 18 May 2009 12:07:56 -0700, wrote: > Greetings all - just a brief reminder that WAC will be running three of the > new NAR HPR competition events this year at FITS: > > I Timed Recovery (54mm minimum body diameter; recovery time multiplied by a > factor of 10) > J Multiple Eggloft > H-K Upscale > > Complete rules for the events are here: > > http://www.nar.org/pdf/HPR%20Sporting%20Code%20(NAR)%202009%20Edition.pdf > > If you're interested in any of these events, please do 2 things: > First - read the rules over thoroughly > Second - let me know off-list if you're interested in participating, > (especially for J Multiple Eggloft, and include the number of eggs you'll > want to fly) > > Right now the plan is to have two 1-hr windows on Saturday, 1200-1300 for I > Timed Recovery and 1300-1400 for J Multiple Eggloft. The Upscale models > will be flown from 1100-1200 on Sunday, with judging on Saturday evening. > We'll review the information at the Saturday and Sunday fliers' meeting. > > Let me know if you have questions, but please read the rules over first > before asking how the events will work. > > Regards > Jim Wilkerson > > _______________________________________________ > members mailing list > members at washingtonaerospace.org > http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 16:27:11 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:27:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lawsuit Message-ID: <7913F98A0C5A4892801D90E0FB702679@Mobile2> There will be an announcement at 5 Pacific. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -------------- next part -------------- There will be an announcement at 5 Pacific. ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From melamy at earthlink.net Mon May 18 16:43:15 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:43:15 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] Lawsuit Message-ID: <9250809.1242690196057.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> 15 minutes and counting down... -----Original Message----- >From: Scott T Bowers >Sent: May 18, 2009 4:27 PM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: [RocketsNW] Lawsuit > >There will be an announcement at 5 Pacific. >? >Scott T. Bowers >http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com >? >? From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 16:45:32 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:45:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lawsuit In-Reply-To: <9250809.1242690196057.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <9250809.1242690196057.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <66C8FD157C9C4B8390087EE8D9FC77C2@Mobile2> Kinda like Christmas morning when I was six...LOL! Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: melamy at earthlink.net [mailto:melamy at earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:43 PM To: Scott T Bowers; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Lawsuit 15 minutes and counting down... -----Original Message----- >From: Scott T Bowers >Sent: May 18, 2009 4:27 PM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: [RocketsNW] Lawsuit > >There will be an announcement at 5 Pacific. >? >Scott T. Bowers >http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com >? >? From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Mon May 18 17:03:32 2009 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:03:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> ________________________________ From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trip Barber Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation May 18, 2009 Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. Trip Barber NAR President Ken Good TRA President __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Members MARKETPLACE I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part Time!. ________________________________ I make $75/Hour. While I Sleep!. ________________________________ Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Drive Traffic Sponsored Search can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Groups Mom Power Find wholesome recipes and more. Go Moms Go! . __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- ? From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trip Barber Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation May 18, 2009 Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. Trip Barber NAR President Ken Good TRA President __._,_.___ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/message/10566;_ylc=X3oDMTM1NGV1ZjYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2 Messages in this topic ( 1 ) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwdjVyOGtkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566 Reply (via web post) | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMHJ1a243BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2 Start a new topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNHIxa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2 Messages | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlODJocmZyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng-- Files | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdHBpamV2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2 Photos | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaDI4cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2 Members MARKETPLACE http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14krhhvt2/M=733250.13450161.13535737.10835568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/*http://www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=lastweek&SID=GetPaid I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part Time!. http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14k2au7hp/M=733250.13450162.13535738.10835568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http://www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=lastweek&SID=75sleep I make $75/Hour. While I Sleep!. http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14kv83v8m/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/ Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY- http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNjU4NjJxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDc3RuZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng-- Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: mailto:NAR_Sections-digest at yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest Switch delivery to Daily Digest | mailto:NAR_Sections-traditional at yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional Switch format to Traditional http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNmFnanRkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY- Visit Your Group | http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | mailto:NAR_Sections-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject= Unsubscribe Recent Activity http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdjBrb2NpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2 Visit Your Group Yahoo! News http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14hib88eq/M=493064.12016309.12445701.8674578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http://news.yahoo.com/ Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Drive Traffic http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14h0dtvmn/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.php Sponsored Search can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Groups http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14hf59job/M=493064.12662709.13497510.8674578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/ Mom Power Find wholesome recipes and more. Go Moms Go! . http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=276101/grpspId=1705063557/msgId=10566/stime=1242691286/nc1=3848627/nc2=4025338/nc3=5689658 __,_._,___ From daron at daronjohnson.com Mon May 18 17:05:54 2009 From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:05:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [personal] National Association of Rocketry - Electronic Rocketeer Issue #11 Message-ID: <000901c9d815$96531570$c2f94050$@com> Here is what I just got. Small NAR Logo National Association of Rocketry The Electronic Rocketeer - Issue #11 - May 2009 U.S. Internationals Team The 18th World Space Modeling Championships (WSMC) will be held in August, 2010 in Serbia. The NAR is organizing a team to represent the United States. A competitive team selection flyoffs will be held on August 8 and 9, 2009 at NARAM-51. Participating in a World Championships as a representative of the US is an incredible experience for contestants and supporters alike. One of the major goals of the NAR's international competition program is to make the WSMC accessible to all NAR members. The NAR and other sponsors were able to provide scholarships for between 50 and 90% of the total participation costs of our Junior contestants in both of the last two WSMC. More data on the flyoffs can be found in the "files" area of the NAR FAI Yahoo site in Internats Bulletin #1. Or you can contact the Flyoff CD, Bill Stine or the head of the NAR's FAI Activities Subcommittee, John Langford . We hope to see you at the flyoffs!!! B Division NARAM Travel Grants Travel funding grants of up to $800 each are available for up to three B Division (age 14-17) first-time fliers at NARAM-51. Young NAR members who want to attend under this program must apply by June 13. The application package is on the NAR website. - Rocket Info Links - NAR Website NAR Club List NAR Launch Calendar NAR Useful Documents Previous E-Rocketeers NAR Section Safety Grant Program Applications from NAR sections for grants of up to $250 to buy range safety equipment under this new program are being accepted by NAR Safety Committee Chairman Andy Eng through May 31. Some of the $4000 allocation from the NAR Board is still unclaimed! See the program description on the NAR website for details. Checks for approved applications will be sent out in June. Message from the NAR President Dear DARON, JOINT NAR/TRA STATEMENT ON THE LAWSUIT VS BATFE Since the BATFE has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations where any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. Trip Barber Ken Good NAR President TRA President Team America Rocketry Challenge (TARC 2009) The NAR and our partners at the Aerospace Industries Association held the annual National Finals for the Team America Rocketry Challenge on Saturday, May 16 at the Great Meadow site in The Plains, VA. The top 100 teams nationally, from 30 states, competed for $60,000 in cash prizes. This year's winning team was from Madison West High School in Madison, WI, taking home a prize of $10,000 for themselves, $1000 for their school, and earning a free trip for the whole team to the Paris Air Show from Raytheon Corporation. At the conclusion of the TARC Finals, the U.S. winners flew off against the visiting Royal Liberty School team (of Romford, Essex) who had been the winners of the UKAYROC competition, an identical event now being held each year in the UK. The Transatlantic Championship for 2009 was claimed by the UK. TARC is the NAR's premier (but not our only) program for "paying forward" to interest a new generation in aerospace as a career and rocketry as a hobby. It has been extremely effective in doing this for about 7000 students per year, and has greatly increased the visibility of our hobby and of the NAR in schools across the US and in the professional aerospace industry. The hundreds of NAR volunteers who support and teach local school teams, and the 100 who come serve as range crew each year at the TARC Finals, are making a big difference. For more information about TARC see the NAR TARC webpage or the official TARC website. To volunteer as a NAR senior member "mentor" to coach a student team in next school year's TARC 2010, contact Trip Barber at ahbarber at alum.mit.edu. Rules for TARC 2010 will be released in about a month and registration will open in early September. Model Rocketeer Newsletter The single issue of the paper Model Rocketeer newsletter that will be published this year has been printed and mailed to all NAR members. This issue has paper ballots in it for three issues: elections for the three NAR Board of Trustees positions that are open this year; votes on a proposed change to the NAR By Laws establishing a Technology Committee; and votes on this year's proposed changes to the Model Rocket Sporting Code (Pink Book). Please read the materials and send in your ballots when you get your Model Rocketeer! Forward email Safe Unsubscribe This email was sent to nar at daronjohnson.com by president at nar.org. Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy . Email Marketing by National Association of Rocketry | P. O. Box 407 | Marion | IA | 52302 -------------- next part -------------- Here is what I just got. ? ? ? http://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs012/1102026328632/img/2.gif?a=1102580380975 http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCRtgEDZDlc0VRab83EwKrGuYT9zhKC3Ejm4B7JutXygPZA9fPHk_gOp83ohUNGYzD_zJ9exBRF5L16Km6blgHWZ3jtjTHFQcBU= National Association of Rocketry The Electronic Rocketeer - Issue #11 -??May 2009 U.S. Internationals Team ? The 18th World Space Modeling Championships (WSMC)?will be held in August, 2010 in Serbia. The NAR is organizing a team to represent the United States. A competitive team selection flyoffs will be held on August 8 and 9, 2009 at NARAM-51. Participating in a World Championships as a representative of the US is an incredible experience for contestants and supporters alike.??One of the major goals of the NAR's international competition program is to make the WSMC accessible to all NAR members.??The NAR?and other sponsors were able to provide scholarships for?between 50 and 90% of the total participation costs of our Junior contestants in both of the last two WSMC. More data on the flyoffs can be found in the "files" area of the?NAR http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCT-eb5Ka34BDe77m4_G1Z4QXJZGJH3u5TrkSG0HR1fY_y3-lYzIr81m6OOfvb_6HrzB31qe6ogEVLBOziILmrosnAoN3MXb6plOsvxKR8V5qn_sui_Mnl_V5g8I6og0lE4oidOAk4rfqk9uOnRMKFSq FAI Yahoo site in Internats Bulletin #1. ?Or you can contact the Flyoff CD, mailto:bill at questaerospace.com Bill Stine ?or the head of the NAR's FAI Activities Subcommittee, mailto:jslangford at mac.com John Langford .??We hope to see you at the flyoffs!!! ??? ? B Division NARAM Travel Grants ? Travel funding grants of up to $800 each are available for up to three B Division (age 14-17) first-time fliers at NARAM-51.? Young?NAR members?who want to attend under this program must apply by June 13.? The http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCRCzl-PvdseQaLR0cc9qNM_N_hQrdtKaajoRyIOzdiYyhytwuPjXhCLUXtckc2vEduGzJn3kqWnC9o7YNcjwBbChZ0HsgSJXqUKMc8OttOPQ1s8wWQhveBEnDUzWsstT06sr6UF911XhojkT4vERbcV application package is on the NAR website. ? - Rocket Info Links - http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCRtgEDZDlc0VRab83EwKrGuYT9zhKC3Ejm4B7JutXygPZA9fPHk_gOp83ohUNGYzD_zJ9exBRF5L16Km6blgHWZ3jtjTHFQcBU= NAR Website http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCTUnRREMFyVvGJdGvrViUJhW0aFETbw8Zh4SZb_JYdEqg6fXbbHVPLKPdSmkZdIT9pchpUkuLs9Yre6NyXacSbxkT15boIfIvCF7iKXLdSd90by0W3-J9ZK NAR Club List http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCQS3FF2hg0mBJDV3fiPdDjm2XCmob9yf90G-lfNipxPNCD9ymak7JMoGEw0QwWyW7G5PR3O4tYFfHgWwUTlJo-WxS4iFZcBdOFS80s5lyDvrQdgLtbwB70z NAR Launch Calendar http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCR2idfNUVpsxeifpHkZFxvPmnJaoq6AprjTYaa-h-9OiKz0_QVUhKecaQu5ICIJxD-ETv7BmGtcCMHw-oVYuoGt7jBiLzqYDa3I0sea--KXbCSynzLXz43QkLAzMwA9jKs= NAR Useful Documents http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCQ2Vmg05fXCrLBNfYikP-tEtAWiAjAZxNCSMd9KCxGBlZd-Sbov1tQqASQOGSTWhRHn-IllVKnzr9S8AQsAUoJMrOj2_pBjR16FAsnVyEu5DPXhgLOeY5Jy Previous E-Rocketeers ? NAR Section Safety Grant Program ? Applications from NAR sections for grants of up to $250 to buy range safety equipment under this new program are being accepted by NAR Safety Committee Chairman Andy Eng?through May 31.? Some of the?$4000 allocation from the NAR Board is still unclaimed!? See the http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCREAW2kauzfN8wN4GuhJEbeKZ1T7YWd5RPQu5o2HScPGhrmiuissoWrXiRwO3fGfKExNazb1NMpLhJ0JOT0nkOTGaCnAlILTojVOIiUWaYiN3SRRP5XyK2b25YUK0HgKND7hgfEYofe77FLkFgOrsmfMpzbptbZeKCcMovGwmA5lXIpp26QTBPtgIUcG5I3a9k= program description ?on the NAR website for details.? Checks for approved applications will be sent out in June. Message from the NAR President Dear DARON, ? JOINT NAR/TRA STATEMENT ON THE LAWSUIT VS BATFE ? Since the BATFE has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations where any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. ? Trip Barber??????????????????????????????? Ken Good NAR President?????????????????????????? TRA President [A] Team America Rocketry Challenge (TARC 2009) ? ? The NAR and our partners at the Aerospace Industries Association held the annual National Finals for the Team America Rocketry Challenge on Saturday, May 16 at the Great Meadow site in The Plains, VA.? The top 100 teams nationally, from 30 states, competed for $60,000 in cash prizes.? This year's winning team was from Madison West High School in Madison, WI,?taking home a prize of $10,000 for themselves, $1000 for their school, and earning a free trip for the whole team to the Paris Air Show from Raytheon Corporation. ? At the conclusion of the TARC Finals, the U.S. winners flew off against the visiting Royal Liberty School team (of Romford, Essex) who had been the?winners of the UKAYROC competition, an identical event now being held each year in the UK.? The Transatlantic Championship for 2009 was claimed by the UK. ? TARC is the NAR's premier (but not our only) program for "paying forward" to interest a new generation in aerospace as a career and?rocketry as a hobby.? It has been extremely effective in doing this for about 7000 students per year, and has greatly increased the visibility of our hobby and of the NAR in schools across the US and in the professional aerospace industry.? The hundreds of NAR volunteers who support and teach local school teams, and the 100 who come serve as range crew each year at the TARC Finals, are making a big difference.?? ? For more information about TARC see the http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCQZf1Jy8p8vYXgzivNnAnBlRg6dFJrrhjk028Et_PBNIIsExW25Nk3miAf-w2iYcFwDCtvii5JbR6HUlTuuZJRJWpbTMe_kt8tiOeSPapuQIwi_scPIhaJK NAR TARC webpage ?or the official http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102580380975&s=2491&e=001bVPSBvPNXCQDcH9uDKYrvSL3zgBWdeYVDjmVQN0y5gG3Gu_oqhjqepGaqNERk6r8klhBvAYv34xydPlXECsT-3bipHMPB_t-qBSXdpHBte9VXm_Bbnd3Eg== TARC website. ? To volunteer as a NAR senior member "mentor" to coach a student team in next school year's TARC 2010, contact Trip Barber at mailto:ahbarber at alum.mit.edu ahbarber at alum.mit.edu .? Rules for TARC 2010 will be released in about a month and registration will open in early September.? [A] ? Model Rocketeer Newsletter ? The single issue of the paper Model Rocketeer newsletter that will be published this year has been printed and mailed to all NAR members.? This issue has paper ballots in it for three issues: elections for?the three NAR Board of Trustees positions that are open this year;?votes on?a proposed change to the NAR By Laws establishing a?Technology Committee; and votes on this year's proposed changes to the Model Rocket Sporting Code (Pink Book).? Please read the materials and send in your?ballots when you get your Model Rocketeer!??? ? http://ui.constantcontact.com/sa/fwtf.jsp?m=1102026328632&ea=nar%40daronjohnson.com&a=1102580380975 Forward email http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?v=001vAZEdqAbSf9kkI7uXKHRWq52UnZ8k55YszBgF97RP049ntSPaPd1OgWTcHXWycPRWGpk_i4lMrA%3D&p=un http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/safe_unsubscribe_logo.gif This email was sent to nar at daronjohnson.com by mailto:president at nar.org president at nar.org . http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?v=001vAZEdqAbSf9kkI7uXKHRWq52UnZ8k55YszBgF97RP049ntSPaPd1OgWTcHXWycPRWGpk_i4lMrA%3D&p=oo Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?v=001vAZEdqAbSf9kkI7uXKHRWq52UnZ8k55YszBgF97RP049ntSPaPd1OgWTcHXWycPRWGpk_i4lMrA%3D&p=un SafeUnsubscribe ??? | http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp Privacy Policy . http://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp?cc=TEM_Assoc_007 Email Marketing by http://www.constantcontact.com/index.jsp?cc=TEM_Assoc_007 http://img.constantcontact.com/letters/images/cc-logo-color-sm.gif National Association of Rocketry | P. O. Box 407 | Marion | IA | 52302 http://rs6.net/on.jsp?t=1102580380975.0.1102026328632.2491&ts=S0403&o=http://ui.constantcontact.com/images1/s.gif From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 17:06:42 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:06:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It'sOver In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: Pretty cool don't ya think? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It'sOver ________________________________ From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trip Barber Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation May 18, 2009 Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. Trip Barber NAR President Ken Good TRA President __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Members MARKETPLACE I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part Time!. ________________________________ I make $75/Hour. While I Sleep!. ________________________________ Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Drive Traffic Sponsored Search can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Groups Mom Power Find wholesome recipes and more. Go Moms Go! . __,_._,___ From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Mon May 18 17:10:02 2009 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:10:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F8980C@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> This pretty well sums it up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIVfbylUU-M John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over ________________________________ From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trip Barber Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation May 18, 2009 Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. Trip Barber NAR President Ken Good TRA President __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Members MARKETPLACE I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part Time!. ________________________________ I make $75/Hour. While I Sleep!. ________________________________ Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Drive Traffic Sponsored Search can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Groups Mom Power Find wholesome recipes and more. Go Moms Go! . __,_._,___ From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 17:27:47 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:27:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It'sOver In-Reply-To: <005b01c9d817$add78580$09869080$@com> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <005b01c9d817$add78580$09869080$@com> Message-ID: <08E2B283F4E64731942287F0014FA8E2@Mobile2> Kent had posted awhile back....; Although the L&I - Explosives Division is likely as thrilled as we are with the NAR/TRA vs BATFE ruling yesterday, L&I regulations are treated as state law and any changes have to be passed before the legislature. The L&I tells me that they will take next steps after hearing confirmation from the ATF on what the ATF position is on the decision. That is to say, if the ATF acknowledges Judge Walton's ruling as most think they will, the ATF will notify the L&I that they no longer have APCP on their low explosives list. The Explosives Division will pass on the ATF declaration to a review board of the L&I, the board will ask for recommendations from the Explosives Division, Explosives will respond favorably and the legislative change process will begin. If the ATF acknowledges the ruling to be immediate as we all do, that communication should come fairly quickly; the State and ATF are in daily contact. Until then, the current state law regarding permitting remains as is. FYI. Regards, Kent Newman Washington Aerospace Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: John Hawkins [mailto:johnhawkins at wavecable.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:21 PM To: 'Scott T Bowers' Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It'sOver will Washington still require us to store ap does any one know? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It'sOver Pretty cool don't ya think? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It'sOver ________________________________ From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trip Barber Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation May 18, 2009 Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. Trip Barber NAR President Ken Good TRA President __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Members MARKETPLACE I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part Time!. ________________________________ I make $75/Hour. While I Sleep!. ________________________________ Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Drive Traffic Sponsored Search can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Groups Mom Power Find wholesome recipes and more. Go Moms Go! . __,_._,___ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winningstad at comcast.net Mon May 18 17:54:46 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:54:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case -It'sOver In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair> Scott, Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case -It'sOver Pretty cool don't ya think? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It'sOver ________________________________ From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trip Barber Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation May 18, 2009 Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. Trip Barber NAR President Ken Good TRA President __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Members MARKETPLACE I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part Time!. ________________________________ I make $75/Hour. While I Sleep!. ________________________________ Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Drive Traffic Sponsored Search can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Groups Mom Power Find wholesome recipes and more. Go Moms Go! . __,_._,___ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From raystoner99 at comcast.net Mon May 18 18:21:36 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:21:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair> Message-ID: <005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from BATFE". Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they lost? Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, the law changed. Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for it to take effect? What gives? Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just playing it safe? Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case -It'sOver Scott, Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case -It'sOver Pretty cool don't ya think? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It'sOver ________________________________ From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trip Barber Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation May 18, 2009 Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. Trip Barber NAR President Ken Good TRA President __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Members MARKETPLACE I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part Time!. ________________________________ I make $75/Hour. While I Sleep!. ________________________________ Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here Breaking news to entertainment news Drive Traffic Sponsored Search can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Groups Mom Power Find wholesome recipes and more. Go Moms Go! . __,_._,___ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Mon May 18 18:28:53 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:28:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase -It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair> <005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B14@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> NAR and TRA are just playing it safe. ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of W. Raymond Stoner Sent: Mon 5/18/2009 6:21 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase -It'sOver NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from BATFE". Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they lost? Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, the law changed. Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for it to take effect? What gives? Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just playing it safe? Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case -It'sOver Scott, Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case -It'sOver Pretty cool don't ya think? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It'sOver ________________________________ From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trip Barber Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation May 18, 2009 Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside agencies. Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. Trip Barber NAR President Ken Good TRA President __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Members MARKETPLACE I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part Time!. ________________________________ I make $75/Hour. While I Sleep!. ________________________________ Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Get it all here .yahoo.com/> Breaking news to entertainment news Drive Traffic Sponsored Search .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.php> can help increase your site traffic. Yahoo! Groups Mom Power ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> Find wholesome recipes and more. Go Moms Go! . __,_._,___ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From terry at mooreread.com Mon May 18 18:38:34 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:38:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair> <005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net> Message-ID: <177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > BATFE". > > Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > lost? > Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when > the judge > enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > time the > order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait for, > but not > really required. At the time the judgment was entered, the law > changed. > Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there > could be > some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during that > period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > > Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling > for it to > take effect? What gives? > > Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > playing it > safe? > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > ] > On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > Case > -It'sOver > > Scott, > > Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > ] > On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > Case > -It'sOver > > Pretty cool don't ya think? > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > ] > On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > Case - > It'sOver > > > > ________________________________ > From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf Of Trip Barber > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > > > > > Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > > May 18, 2009 > > Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > not > appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > 2009, which > ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an > explosive, > and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, > 2009, on > advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final > although > we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may > operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer > regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the > permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such > motors. > > Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > possess) > and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > While APCP > rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > the > "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > materials may > be subject to these requirements. > Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes > stipulate what > motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > certification. > These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively > with the > rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > possess flyer > certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. > Ensuring > we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > element > in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside > agencies. > > Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA > should they > encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in > a manner > inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. > > Trip Barber > NAR President > > Ken Good > TRA President > > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic > jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1N > jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > Reply > (via web post) > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYEc2VjA2 > Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > Start a > new topic > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYw > RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > Messages Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > Files BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > Photos V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG > sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > Members cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRz > bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > MARKETPLACE > I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > Time!. 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ > *http:/ > /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=lastweek& > SID=GetPaid> > ________________________________ > I make $75/Hour. While I > Sleep!. 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=lastweek > &SID=75sleep> > ________________________________ > Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > families, for > the world and for each > other 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ > *http:// > groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] ps > .yahoo > .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > Change settings via the > Web TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDc3R > uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > via > email: Switch delivery to Daily > Digest :% > 20Digest> | Switch format to > Traditional %2 > 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > Visit Your Group > 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmBHN0aW1 > lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > | Unsubscribe > > Recent Activity > > Visit Your Group > 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGl > tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > Yahoo! News > > Get it all > here 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ > J=124269 > 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http://news > .yahoo.com/> > > Breaking news to > > entertainment news > > Drive Traffic > > Sponsored > Search 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*http://us > .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.php > > > > can help increase > > your site traffic. > > Yahoo! Groups > > Mom > Power 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ > J=12426 > 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http://gro > ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > > Find wholesome recipes > > and more. Go Moms Go! > > . > > __,_._,___ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 18:43:14 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:43:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net> <177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com> Message-ID: <021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> I think what they were saying is although we have not received confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM To: W. Raymond Stoner Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase -It'sOver Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > BATFE". > > Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > lost? > Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait > for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, > the law changed. > Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could > be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during > that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > > Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for > it to take effect? What gives? > > Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > playing it safe? > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > ] > On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > Case -It'sOver > > Scott, > > Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > ] > On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > Case -It'sOver > > Pretty cool don't ya think? > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > ] > On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > - It'sOver > > > > ________________________________ > From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf Of Trip Barber > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > > > > > Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > > May 18, 2009 > > Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > > Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > possess) > and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > While APCP > rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > materials may be subject to these requirements. > Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > certification. > These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > purchase. > Ensuring > we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by > outside agencies. > > Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal > District Court. > > Trip Barber > NAR President > > Ken Good > TRA President > > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic > 1NGV1Z > jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ > DMTA1N > jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > Reply > (via web post) > BF9TAz > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE > c2VjA2 > Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > Start a new topic > BF9TAz > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > bnRwYw > RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > Messages MTJkNH > Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > A2Z0cg > RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > Files JocmZy > BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > RzbGsD > ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > Photos dHBpam > V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 > cgRzbG > sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > Members JkaDI4 > cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > Z0cgRz > bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > MARKETPLACE > I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > Time!. 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ > *http:/ > /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las > tweek& > SID=GetPaid> > ________________________________ > I make $75/Hour. While I > Sleep!. 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la > stweek > &SID=75sleep> > ________________________________ > Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > families, for the world and for each > other .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ > *http:// > groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] //grou > ps > .yahoo > .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > Change settings via the > Web jJxBF9 > TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > GsDc3R > uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > via > email: Switch delivery to Daily > Digest very > :% > 20Digest> | Switch format to > Traditional ange > %2 > 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > Visit Your Group > zk3MzU > 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB > HN0aW1 > lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > | Unsubscribe > > Recent Activity > > Visit Your Group > zk3MzU > 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc > ARzdGl > tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > Yahoo! News > > Get it all > here 867457 > 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ > J=124269 > 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > //news > .yahoo.com/> > > Breaking news to > > entertainment news > > Drive Traffic > > Sponsored > Search 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt > p://us > .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p > hp > > > > can help increase > > your site traffic. > > Yahoo! Groups > > Mom > Power .86745 > 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ > J=12426 > 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http > ://gro > ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > > Find wholesome recipes > > and more. Go Moms Go! > > . > > __,_._,___ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 18 18:54:08 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:54:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement onBATFECase -It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com> <021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> Message-ID: Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with motors removed. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement onBATFECase -It'sOver >I think what they were saying is although we have not received confirmation > from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > To: W. Raymond Stoner > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase > -It'sOver > > Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from > enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > > On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > >> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >> BATFE". >> >> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >> lost? >> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the >> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the >> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait >> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, >> the law changed. >> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could >> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during >> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >> >> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for >> it to take effect? What gives? >> >> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >> playing it safe? >> >> Ray >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> Case -It'sOver >> >> Scott, >> >> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> 503-781-3529 >> >> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> Case -It'sOver >> >> Pretty cool don't ya think? >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case >> - It'sOver >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> ] On >> Behalf Of Trip Barber >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >> >> >> >> >> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >> >> May 18, 2009 >> >> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP >> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired >> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment >> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from >> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that >> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by >> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >> >> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their >> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >> possess) >> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >> While APCP >> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >> materials may be subject to these requirements. >> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate >> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >> certification. >> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage >> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with >> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to >> purchase. >> Ensuring >> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >> outside agencies. >> >> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should >> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves >> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >> District Court. >> >> Trip Barber >> NAR President >> >> Ken Good >> TRA President >> >> >> __._,_.___ >> Messages in this topic >> > 1NGV1Z >> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >> DMTA1N >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >> Reply >> (via web post) >> > BF9TAz >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >> c2VjA2 >> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >> Start a new topic >> > BF9TAz >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >> bnRwYw >> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> Messages> MTJkNH >> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >> A2Z0cg >> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> Files> JocmZy >> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >> RzbGsD >> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >> Photos> dHBpam >> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >> cgRzbG >> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> Members> JkaDI4 >> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >> Z0cgRz >> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> MARKETPLACE >> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >> Time!.> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ >> *http:/ >> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >> tweek& >> SID=GetPaid> >> ________________________________ >> I make $75/Hour. While I >> Sleep!.> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >> stweek >> &SID=75sleep> >> ________________________________ >> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >> families, for the world and for each >> other> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >> *http:// >> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]> //grou >> ps >> .yahoo >> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >> Change settings via the >> Web> jJxBF9 >> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >> GsDc3R >> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >> via >> email: Switch delivery to Daily >> Digest> very >> :% >> 20Digest> | Switch format to >> Traditional> ange >> %2 >> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >> Visit Your Group >> > zk3MzU >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >> HN0aW1 >> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >> | Unsubscribe >> >> Recent Activity >> >> Visit Your Group >> > zk3MzU >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >> ARzdGl >> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> Yahoo! News >> >> Get it all >> here> 867457 >> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >> J=124269 >> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: >> //news >> .yahoo.com/> >> >> Breaking news to >> >> entertainment news >> >> Drive Traffic >> >> Sponsored >> Search> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt >> p://us >> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p >> hp >> > >> >> can help increase >> >> your site traffic. >> >> Yahoo! Groups >> >> Mom >> Power> .86745 >> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >> J=12426 >> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http >> ://gro >> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >> Find wholesome recipes >> >> and more. Go Moms Go! >> >> . >> >> __,_._,___ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Mon May 18 19:10:08 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:10:08 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> Message-ID: <02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> It would be premature to destroy your records. Until March 16th, APCP was considered an explosive, and ATF may want you to retain them for dates prior to that. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:54 PM > To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'W. Raymond Stoner' > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase - > It'sOver > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is not > an > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be destroying > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license > with > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with motors > removed. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > >I think what they were saying is although we have not received > confirmation > > from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > > > > > > Scott T. Bowers > > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- > bounces at rocketsnw.com] > > On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > > To: W. Raymond Stoner > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase > > -It'sOver > > > > Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from > > enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > > > > On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > > > >> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >> BATFE". > >> > >> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >> lost? > >> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > >> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > >> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait > >> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, > >> the law changed. > >> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could > >> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during > >> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >> > >> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for > >> it to take effect? What gives? > >> > >> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >> playing it safe? > >> > >> Ray > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >> Case -It'sOver > >> > >> Scott, > >> > >> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >> > >> Dennis S Winningstad > >> 503-781-3529 > >> > >> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >> Case -It'sOver > >> > >> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > >> - It'sOver > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >> ] On > >> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >> > >> May 18, 2009 > >> > >> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > >> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > >> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > >> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > >> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > >> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > >> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > >> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > >> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >> > >> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > >> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > >> possess) > >> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >> While APCP > >> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > >> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > >> certification. > >> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > >> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > >> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > >> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > >> purchase. > >> Ensuring > >> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > >> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by > >> outside agencies. > >> > >> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > >> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > >> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal > >> District Court. > >> > >> Trip Barber > >> NAR President > >> > >> Ken Good > >> TRA President > >> > >> > >> __._,_.___ > >> Messages in this topic > >> >> 1NGV1Z > >> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ > >> DMTA1N > >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > >> Reply > >> (via web post) > >> >> BF9TAz > >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE > >> c2VjA2 > >> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > >> Start a new topic > >> >> BF9TAz > >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > >> bnRwYw > >> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >> Messages >> MTJkNH > >> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > >> A2Z0cg > >> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >> Files >> JocmZy > >> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >> RzbGsD > >> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >> Photos >> dHBpam > >> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 > >> cgRzbG > >> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >> Members >> JkaDI4 > >> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > >> Z0cgRz > >> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >> MARKETPLACE > >> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >> Time!. >> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ > >> *http:/ > >> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las > >> tweek& > >> SID=GetPaid> > >> ________________________________ > >> I make $75/Hour. While I > >> Sleep!. >> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la > >> stweek > >> &SID=75sleep> > >> ________________________________ > >> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >> families, for the world and for each > >> other >> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ > >> *http:// > >> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >> //grou > >> ps > >> .yahoo > >> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > >> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >> Change settings via the > >> Web >> jJxBF9 > >> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > >> GsDc3R > >> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > >> via > >> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >> Digest >> very > >> :% > >> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >> Traditional >> ange > >> %2 > >> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >> Visit Your Group > >> >> zk3MzU > >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB > >> HN0aW1 > >> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >> | Unsubscribe > >> > >> Recent Activity > >> > >> Visit Your Group > >> >> zk3MzU > >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc > >> ARzdGl > >> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >> Yahoo! News > >> > >> Get it all > >> here >> 867457 > >> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ > >> J=124269 > >> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >> //news > >> .yahoo.com/> > >> > >> Breaking news to > >> > >> entertainment news > >> > >> Drive Traffic > >> > >> Sponsored > >> Search >> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt > >> p://us > >> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p > >> hp > >> > > >> > >> can help increase > >> > >> your site traffic. > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups > >> > >> Mom > >> Power >> .86745 > >> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ > >> J=12426 > >> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http > >> ://gro > >> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >> > >> Find wholesome recipes > >> > >> and more. Go Moms Go! > >> > >> . > >> > >> __,_._,___ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 19:12:58 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:12:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> Message-ID: <6BEDEBEAE7CA4B31840DE877C2F6F5C2@Mobile2> I would assume you check them out on your inventory and list the reason as "no longer classified as explosives" Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:10 PM To: 'Robert Krausert' Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver It would be premature to destroy your records. Until March 16th, APCP was considered an explosive, and ATF may want you to retain them for dates prior to that. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:54 PM > To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'W. Raymond Stoner' > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > - It'sOver > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is > not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be > destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue > my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with > motors removed. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > >I think what they were saying is although we have not received > confirmation > > from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > > > > > > Scott T. Bowers > > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- > bounces at rocketsnw.com] > > On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > > To: W. Raymond Stoner > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > > BATFECase -It'sOver > > > > Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain > > from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > > > > On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > > > >> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >> BATFE". > >> > >> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >> lost? > >> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when > >> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective > >> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice > >> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the > >> judgment was entered, the law changed. > >> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there > >> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased > >> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >> > >> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling > >> for it to take effect? What gives? > >> > >> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >> playing it safe? > >> > >> Ray > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFE Case -It'sOver > >> > >> Scott, > >> > >> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >> > >> Dennis S Winningstad > >> 503-781-3529 > >> > >> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFE Case -It'sOver > >> > >> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >> Case > >> - It'sOver > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >> ] On > >> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >> > >> May 18, 2009 > >> > >> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March > >> 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification > >> of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so > >> has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe > >> that the judgment is considered final although we have not received > >> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the > >> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an > >> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits > >> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >> > >> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate > >> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan > >> to > >> possess) > >> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >> While APCP > >> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes > >> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of > >> flyer certification. > >> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly > >> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work > >> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket > >> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate > >> with the motors they wish to purchase. > >> Ensuring > >> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an > >> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from > >> overregulation by outside agencies. > >> > >> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA > >> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct > >> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the > >> Federal District Court. > >> > >> Trip Barber > >> NAR President > >> > >> Ken Good > >> TRA President > >> > >> > >> __._,_.___ > >> Messages in this topic > >> >> MTM > >> 1NGV1Z > >> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNn > >> SWQ > >> DMTA1N > >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1 > >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> ) > >> Reply > >> (via web post) > >> >> Gtk > >> BF9TAz > >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1N > >> jYE > >> c2VjA2 > >> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> > >> | Start a new topic > >> >> 243 > >> BF9TAz > >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > >> GsD > >> bnRwYw > >> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >> Messages >> 3oD > >> MTJkNH > >> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc > >> 2Vj > >> A2Z0cg > >> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >> Files >> lOD > >> JocmZy > >> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z > >> 0cg > >> RzbGsD > >> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >> Photos >> TJk > >> dHBpam > >> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA > >> 2Z0 > >> cgRzbG > >> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >> Members >> DMT > >> JkaDI4 > >> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2V > >> jA2 > >> Z0cgRz > >> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >> MARKETPLACE > >> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >> Time!. >> 573 > >> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79ph > >> j/ > >> *http:/ > >> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= > >> las > >> tweek& > >> SID=GetPaid> > >> ________________________________ > >> I make $75/Hour. While I > >> Sleep!. >> 357 > >> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID > >> =la > >> stweek > >> &SID=75sleep> > >> ________________________________ > >> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >> families, for the world and for each > >> other >> 503 > >> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke > >> / > >> *http:// > >> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >> //grou > >> ps > >> .yahoo > >> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBz > >> c > >> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >> Change settings via the > >> Web >> U4N > >> jJxBF9 > >> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >> Rzb > >> GsDc3R > >> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > >> via > >> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >> Digest >> eli > >> very > >> :% > >> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >> Traditional >> =Ch > >> ange > >> %2 > >> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >> Visit Your Group > >> >> 9TA > >> zk3MzU > >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaH > >> BmB > >> HN0aW1 > >> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >> | Unsubscribe > >> > >> Recent Activity > >> > >> Visit Your Group > >> >> 9TA > >> zk3MzU > >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm > >> doc > >> ARzdGl > >> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >> Yahoo! News > >> > >> Get it all > >> here >> 867457 > >> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8- > >> / > >> J=124269 > >> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >> //news > >> .yahoo.com/> > >> > >> Breaking news to > >> > >> entertainment news > >> > >> Drive Traffic > >> > >> Sponsored > >> Search >> 566 > >> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/* > >> htt > >> p://us > >> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/inde > >> x.p > >> hp > >> > > >> > >> can help increase > >> > >> your site traffic. > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups > >> > >> Mom > >> Power >> 510 > >> .86745 > >> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8 > >> -/ > >> J=12426 > >> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*h > >> ttp > >> ://gro > >> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >> > >> Find wholesome recipes > >> > >> and more. Go Moms Go! > >> > >> . > >> > >> __,_._,___ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 18 19:23:12 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:23:12 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> <6BEDEBEAE7CA4B31840DE877C2F6F5C2@Mobile2> Message-ID: <04BCD8BAC0C04960A0DB5C0382E12FE6@LaptopKrausert> Exactly The judgement was invalid. Changing my license to no have motors is step one. Once I have the revised license, all records are gone. Folks, now that's just me. Do not follow me if you are worried. My thoughts are; change the LEUP material list and destroy records. AFT based on the "invalid" ruling means I have nothing with motors between AFT and I. My fear is if I kep it on my license, even though the rules are changed... Because it's on my LEUP - I'd be required to still comply. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "'Darrell D. Mobley'" ; "'Robert Krausert'" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:12 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >I would assume you check them out on your inventory and list the reason as > "no longer classified as explosives" > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:10 PM > To: 'Robert Krausert' > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > It would be premature to destroy your records. Until March 16th, APCP was > considered an explosive, and ATF may want you to retain them for dates > prior > to that. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:54 PM >> To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'W. Raymond Stoner' >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >> - It'sOver >> >> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue >> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >> >> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> >> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> motors removed. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott T Bowers" >> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> onBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >> >I think what they were saying is although we have not received >> confirmation >> > from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >> > >> > >> > Scott T. Bowers >> > www.scottsrockets.com >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> > On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >> > To: W. Raymond Stoner >> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> > BATFECase -It'sOver >> > >> > Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >> > from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >> > >> > On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >> > >> >> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >> >> BATFE". >> >> >> >> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >> >> lost? >> >> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >> >> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >> >> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >> >> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >> >> judgment was entered, the law changed. >> >> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >> >> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >> >> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >> >> >> >> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >> >> for it to take effect? What gives? >> >> >> >> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >> >> playing it safe? >> >> >> >> Ray >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> ] >> >> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >> >> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> >> BATFE Case -It'sOver >> >> >> >> Scott, >> >> >> >> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >> >> >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> >> 503-781-3529 >> >> >> >> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> ] >> >> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >> >> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> >> BATFE Case -It'sOver >> >> >> >> Pretty cool don't ya think? >> >> >> >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> ] >> >> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >> Case >> >> - It'sOver >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >> ] On >> >> Behalf Of Trip Barber >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >> >> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >> >> >> >> May 18, 2009 >> >> >> >> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >> >> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >> >> 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification >> >> of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so >> >> has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe >> >> that the judgment is considered final although we have not received >> >> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >> >> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >> >> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >> >> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >> >> >> >> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >> >> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >> >> to >> >> possess) >> >> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >> >> While APCP >> >> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >> >> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >> >> materials may be subject to these requirements. >> >> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >> >> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >> >> flyer certification. >> >> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >> >> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >> >> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >> >> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate >> >> with the motors they wish to purchase. >> >> Ensuring >> >> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >> >> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from >> >> overregulation by outside agencies. >> >> >> >> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >> >> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >> >> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >> >> Federal District Court. >> >> >> >> Trip Barber >> >> NAR President >> >> >> >> Ken Good >> >> TRA President >> >> >> >> >> >> __._,_.___ >> >> Messages in this topic >> >> > >> MTM >> >> 1NGV1Z >> >> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNn >> >> SWQ >> >> DMTA1N >> >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1 >> >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> ) >> >> Reply >> >> (via web post) >> >> > >> Gtk >> >> BF9TAz >> >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1N >> >> jYE >> >> c2VjA2 >> >> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> >> >> | Start a new topic >> >> > >> 243 >> >> BF9TAz >> >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >> >> GsD >> >> bnRwYw >> >> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >> Messages> >> 3oD >> >> MTJkNH >> >> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc >> >> 2Vj >> >> A2Z0cg >> >> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >> Files> >> lOD >> >> JocmZy >> >> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z >> >> 0cg >> >> RzbGsD >> >> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >> >> Photos> >> TJk >> >> dHBpam >> >> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA >> >> 2Z0 >> >> cgRzbG >> >> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >> Members> >> DMT >> >> JkaDI4 >> >> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2V >> >> jA2 >> >> Z0cgRz >> >> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >> MARKETPLACE >> >> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >> >> Time!.> >> 573 >> >> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >> >> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79ph >> >> j/ >> >> *http:/ >> >> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >> >> las >> >> tweek& >> >> SID=GetPaid> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> I make $75/Hour. While I >> >> Sleep!.> >> 357 >> >> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >> >> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >> >> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >> >> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID >> >> =la >> >> stweek >> >> &SID=75sleep> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >> >> families, for the world and for each >> >> other> >> 503 >> >> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >> >> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke >> >> / >> >> *http:// >> >> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]> >> //grou >> >> ps >> >> .yahoo >> >> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBz >> >> c >> >> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >> >> Change settings via the >> >> Web> >> U4N >> >> jJxBF9 >> >> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >> >> Rzb >> >> GsDc3R >> >> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >> >> via >> >> email: Switch delivery to Daily >> >> Digest> >> eli >> >> very >> >> :% >> >> 20Digest> | Switch format to >> >> Traditional> >> =Ch >> >> ange >> >> %2 >> >> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >> >> Visit Your Group >> >> > >> 9TA >> >> zk3MzU >> >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaH >> >> BmB >> >> HN0aW1 >> >> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >> >> | Unsubscribe >> >> >> >> Recent Activity >> >> >> >> Visit Your Group >> >> > >> 9TA >> >> zk3MzU >> >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm >> >> doc >> >> ARzdGl >> >> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >> Yahoo! News >> >> >> >> Get it all >> >> here> >> 867457 >> >> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8- >> >> / >> >> J=124269 >> >> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: >> >> //news >> >> .yahoo.com/> >> >> >> >> Breaking news to >> >> >> >> entertainment news >> >> >> >> Drive Traffic >> >> >> >> Sponsored >> >> Search> >> 566 >> >> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >> >> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/* >> >> htt >> >> p://us >> >> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/inde >> >> x.p >> >> hp >> >> > >> >> >> >> can help increase >> >> >> >> your site traffic. >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups >> >> >> >> Mom >> >> Power> >> 510 >> >> .86745 >> >> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8 >> >> -/ >> >> J=12426 >> >> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*h >> >> ttp >> >> ://gro >> >> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >> >> >> Find wholesome recipes >> >> >> >> and more. Go Moms Go! >> >> >> >> . >> >> >> >> __,_._,___ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From eas0171 at gmail.com Mon May 18 19:29:30 2009 From: eas0171 at gmail.com (Eugene Samsonov) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:29:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> Message-ID: <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to sell reloads without having a LEUP on file? -Eugene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is not > an > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be destroying > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license > with > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with motors > removed. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>confirmation >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >> To: W. Raymond Stoner >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >> >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>> BATFE". >>> >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>> lost? >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, >>> the law changed. >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>> >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for >>> it to take effect? What gives? >>> >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>> playing it safe? >>> >>> Ray >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>> Case -It'sOver >>> >>> Scott, >>> >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>> Case -It'sOver >>> >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case >>> - It'sOver >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>> ] On >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>> >>> May 18, 2009 >>> >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >>> >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >>> possess) >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>> While APCP >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >>> certification. >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to >>> purchase. >>> Ensuring >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >>> outside agencies. >>> >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >>> District Court. >>> >>> Trip Barber >>> NAR President >>> >>> Ken Good >>> TRA President >>> >>> >>> __._,_.___ >>> Messages in this topic >>> >> 1NGV1Z >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >>> DMTA1N >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >>> Reply >>> (via web post) >>> >> BF9TAz >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >>> c2VjA2 >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>> Start a new topic >>> >> BF9TAz >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>> bnRwYw >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>> Messages>> MTJkNH >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>> A2Z0cg >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>> Files>> JocmZy >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >>> RzbGsD >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>> Photos>> dHBpam >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>> cgRzbG >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>> Members>> JkaDI4 >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>> Z0cgRz >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>> MARKETPLACE >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>> Time!.>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ >>> *http:/ >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >>> tweek& >>> SID=GetPaid> >>> ________________________________ >>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>> Sleep!.>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >>> stweek >>> &SID=75sleep> >>> ________________________________ >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>> families, for the world and for each >>> other>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>> *http:// >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]>> //grou >>> ps >>> .yahoo >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>> Change settings via the >>> Web>> jJxBF9 >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >>> GsDc3R >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>> via >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>> Digest>> very >>> :% >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>> Traditional>> ange >>> %2 >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>> Visit Your Group >>> >> zk3MzU >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >>> HN0aW1 >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>> | Unsubscribe >>> >>> Recent Activity >>> >>> Visit Your Group >>> >> zk3MzU >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >>> ARzdGl >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>> Yahoo! News >>> >>> Get it all >>> here>> 867457 >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>> J=124269 >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: >>> //news >>> .yahoo.com/> >>> >>> Breaking news to >>> >>> entertainment news >>> >>> Drive Traffic >>> >>> Sponsored >>> Search>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt >>> p://us >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p >>> hp >>> > >>> >>> can help increase >>> >>> your site traffic. >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups >>> >>> Mom >>> Power>> .86745 >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >>> J=12426 >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http >>> ://gro >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>> >>> Find wholesome recipes >>> >>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>> >>> . >>> >>> __,_._,___ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 19:31:28 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:31:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> Message-ID: I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their manufacturers as we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to sell reloads without having a LEUP on file? -Eugene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is > not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be > destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue > my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with > motors removed. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >> To: W. Raymond Stoner >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> BATFECase -It'sOver >> >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >> >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>> BATFE". >>> >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>> lost? >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>> >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>> >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>> playing it safe? >>> >>> Ray >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>> Case -It'sOver >>> >>> Scott, >>> >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>> Case -It'sOver >>> >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>> Case >>> - It'sOver >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>> ] On >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>> >>> May 18, 2009 >>> >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that >>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >>> >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>> to >>> possess) >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>> While APCP >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>> flyer certification. >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors >>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the >>> motors they wish to purchase. >>> Ensuring >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >>> outside agencies. >>> >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>> Federal District Court. >>> >>> Trip Barber >>> NAR President >>> >>> Ken Good >>> TRA President >>> >>> >>> __._,_.___ >>> Messages in this topic >>> >> TM >>> 1NGV1Z >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>> WQ >>> DMTA1N >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >>> Reply >>> (via web post) >>> >> tk >>> BF9TAz >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>> YE >>> c2VjA2 >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>> Start a new topic >>> >> 43 >>> BF9TAz >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>> sD >>> bnRwYw >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>> Messages>> oD >>> MTJkNH >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>> Vj >>> A2Z0cg >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>> Files>> OD >>> JocmZy >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>> cg >>> RzbGsD >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>> Photos>> Jk >>> dHBpam >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>> Z0 >>> cgRzbG >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>> Members>> MT >>> JkaDI4 >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>> A2 >>> Z0cgRz >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>> MARKETPLACE >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>> Time!.>> 73 >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj >>> / >>> *http:/ >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>> as >>> tweek& >>> SID=GetPaid> >>> ________________________________ >>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>> Sleep!.>> 57 >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>> la >>> stweek >>> &SID=75sleep> >>> ________________________________ >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>> families, for the world and for each >>> other>> 03 >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>> *http:// >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]>> //grou >>> ps >>> .yahoo >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>> Change settings via the >>> Web>> 4N >>> jJxBF9 >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>> zb >>> GsDc3R >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>> via >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>> Digest>> li >>> very >>> :% >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>> Traditional>> Ch >>> ange >>> %2 >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>> Visit Your Group >>> >> TA >>> zk3MzU >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>> mB >>> HN0aW1 >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>> | Unsubscribe >>> >>> Recent Activity >>> >>> Visit Your Group >>> >> TA >>> zk3MzU >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>> oc >>> ARzdGl >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>> Yahoo! News >>> >>> Get it all >>> here>> 867457 >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>> J=124269 >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: >>> //news >>> .yahoo.com/> >>> >>> Breaking news to >>> >>> entertainment news >>> >>> Drive Traffic >>> >>> Sponsored >>> Search>> 66 >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>> tt >>> p://us >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>> .p >>> hp >>> > >>> >>> can help increase >>> >>> your site traffic. >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups >>> >>> Mom >>> Power>> 10 >>> .86745 >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>> / >>> J=12426 >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*ht >>> tp >>> ://gro >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>> >>> Find wholesome recipes >>> >>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>> >>> . >>> >>> __,_._,___ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 18 19:26:13 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:26:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver Message-ID: <6F1AADB7FDD44167BC98BB9BC8C96091@LaptopKrausert> Big typo.. I meant, the AFT explosive rule was declared invalid. Not the judgement. Geez... long day. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Krausert" To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Darrell D. Mobley'" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Exactly > > The judgement was invalid. Changing my license to no have motors is step > one. Once I have the revised license, all records are gone. > > Folks, now that's just me. Do not follow me if you are worried. My > thoughts are; change the LEUP material list and destroy records. AFT based > on the "invalid" ruling means I have nothing with motors between AFT and > I. > > My fear is if I kep it on my license, even though the rules are changed... > Because it's on my LEUP - I'd be required to still comply. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "'Darrell D. Mobley'" ; "'Robert > Krausert'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:12 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] > JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > >>I would assume you check them out on your inventory and list the reason as >> "no longer classified as explosives" >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:10 PM >> To: 'Robert Krausert' >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> It would be premature to destroy your records. Until March 16th, APCP >> was >> considered an explosive, and ATF may want you to retain them for dates >> prior >> to that. >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:54 PM >>> To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'W. Raymond Stoner' >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >>> - It'sOver >>> >>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue >>> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>> >>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>> >>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>> motors removed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>> >I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>> confirmation >>> > from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>> > >>> > >>> > Scott T. Bowers >>> > www.scottsrockets.com >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >>> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> > On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>> > To: W. Raymond Stoner >>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>> > BATFECase -It'sOver >>> > >>> > Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>> > from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>> > >>> > On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>> > >>> >> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>> >> BATFE". >>> >> >>> >> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>> >> lost? >>> >> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>> >> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>> >> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>> >> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>> >> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>> >> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>> >> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>> >> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>> >> >>> >> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>> >> for it to take effect? What gives? >>> >> >>> >> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>> >> playing it safe? >>> >> >>> >> Ray >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> >> ] >>> >> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>> >> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>> >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>> >> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>> >> >>> >> Scott, >>> >> >>> >> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>> >> >>> >> Dennis S Winningstad >>> >> 503-781-3529 >>> >> >>> >> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> >> ] >>> >> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>> >> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>> >> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>> >> >>> >> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Scott T. Bowers >>> >> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> >> ] >>> >> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>> >> Case >>> >> - It'sOver >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ________________________________ >>> >> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>> >> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>> >> ] On >>> >> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>> >> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>> >> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>> >> >>> >> May 18, 2009 >>> >> >>> >> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>> >> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>> >> 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification >>> >> of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so >>> >> has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe >>> >> that the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>> >> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>> >> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>> >> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>> >> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >>> >> >>> >> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>> >> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>> >> to >>> >> possess) >>> >> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>> >> While APCP >>> >> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>> >> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>> >> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>> >> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>> >> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>> >> flyer certification. >>> >> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>> >> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>> >> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>> >> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate >>> >> with the motors they wish to purchase. >>> >> Ensuring >>> >> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>> >> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>> >> overregulation by outside agencies. >>> >> >>> >> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>> >> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>> >> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>> >> Federal District Court. >>> >> >>> >> Trip Barber >>> >> NAR President >>> >> >>> >> Ken Good >>> >> TRA President >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> __._,_.___ >>> >> Messages in this topic >>> >> >> >> MTM >>> >> 1NGV1Z >>> >> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNn >>> >> SWQ >>> >> DMTA1N >>> >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1 >>> >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> ) >>> >> Reply >>> >> (via web post) >>> >> >> >> Gtk >>> >> BF9TAz >>> >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1N >>> >> jYE >>> >> c2VjA2 >>> >> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> >>> >> | Start a new topic >>> >> >> >> 243 >>> >> BF9TAz >>> >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >>> >> GsD >>> >> bnRwYw >>> >> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>> >> Messages>> >> 3oD >>> >> MTJkNH >>> >> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc >>> >> 2Vj >>> >> A2Z0cg >>> >> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>> >> Files>> >> lOD >>> >> JocmZy >>> >> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z >>> >> 0cg >>> >> RzbGsD >>> >> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>> >> Photos>> >> TJk >>> >> dHBpam >>> >> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA >>> >> 2Z0 >>> >> cgRzbG >>> >> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>> >> Members>> >> DMT >>> >> JkaDI4 >>> >> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2V >>> >> jA2 >>> >> Z0cgRz >>> >> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>> >> MARKETPLACE >>> >> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>> >> Time!.>> >> 573 >>> >> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> >> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>> >> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79ph >>> >> j/ >>> >> *http:/ >>> >> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>> >> las >>> >> tweek& >>> >> SID=GetPaid> >>> >> ________________________________ >>> >> I make $75/Hour. While I >>> >> Sleep!.>> >> 357 >>> >> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> >> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>> >> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>> >> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>> >> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID >>> >> =la >>> >> stweek >>> >> &SID=75sleep> >>> >> ________________________________ >>> >> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>> >> families, for the world and for each >>> >> other>> >> 503 >>> >> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> >> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>> >> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke >>> >> / >>> >> *http:// >>> >> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>> >> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]>> >> //grou >>> >> ps >>> >> .yahoo >>> >> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBz >>> >> c >>> >> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>> >> Change settings via the >>> >> Web>> >> U4N >>> >> jJxBF9 >>> >> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >>> >> Rzb >>> >> GsDc3R >>> >> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>> >> via >>> >> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>> >> Digest>> >> eli >>> >> very >>> >> :% >>> >> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>> >> Traditional>> >> =Ch >>> >> ange >>> >> %2 >>> >> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>> >> Visit Your Group >>> >> >> >> 9TA >>> >> zk3MzU >>> >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaH >>> >> BmB >>> >> HN0aW1 >>> >> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>> >> | Unsubscribe >>> >> >>> >> Recent Activity >>> >> >>> >> Visit Your Group >>> >> >> >> 9TA >>> >> zk3MzU >>> >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm >>> >> doc >>> >> ARzdGl >>> >> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>> >> Yahoo! News >>> >> >>> >> Get it all >>> >> here>> >> 867457 >>> >> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8- >>> >> / >>> >> J=124269 >>> >> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: >>> >> //news >>> >> .yahoo.com/> >>> >> >>> >> Breaking news to >>> >> >>> >> entertainment news >>> >> >>> >> Drive Traffic >>> >> >>> >> Sponsored >>> >> Search>> >> 566 >>> >> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>> >> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>> >> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/* >>> >> htt >>> >> p://us >>> >> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/inde >>> >> x.p >>> >> hp >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> can help increase >>> >> >>> >> your site traffic. >>> >> >>> >> Yahoo! Groups >>> >> >>> >> Mom >>> >> Power>> >> 510 >>> >> .86745 >>> >> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8 >>> >> -/ >>> >> J=12426 >>> >> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*h >>> >> ttp >>> >> ://gro >>> >> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>> >> >>> >> Find wholesome recipes >>> >> >>> >> and more. Go Moms Go! >>> >> >>> >> . >>> >> >>> >> __,_._,___ >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Rockets mailing list >>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Rockets mailing list >>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Rockets mailing list >>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > From terry at mooreread.com Mon May 18 19:35:52 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:35:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> Message-ID: In law school they told us judges don't legislate, they tell you what the law always was. So if a law is ruled invalid it was always invalid. Your real world mileage may vary on that though. On May 18, 2009, at 7:10 PM, Darrell D. Mobley wrote: > It would be premature to destroy your records. Until March 16th, > APCP was > considered an explosive, and ATF may want you to retain them for > dates prior > to that. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:54 PM >> To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'W. Raymond Stoner' >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase - >> It'sOver >> >> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC >> is not >> an >> explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> destroying >> all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my >> license >> with >> rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >> >> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> >> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> motors >> removed. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott T Bowers" >> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> onBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >> confirmation >>> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>> BATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>> from >>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>> >>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>> >>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>> BATFE". >>>> >>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>> lost? >>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>> the >>>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>> from the >>>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to >>>> wait >>>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was >>>> entered, >>>> the law changed. >>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>> could >>>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during >>>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>> >>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the >>>> ruling for >>>> it to take effect? What gives? >>>> >>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>> playing it safe? >>>> >>>> Ray >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> ] >>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFE >>>> Case -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Scott, >>>> >>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>> >>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>> 503-781-3529 >>>> >>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> ] >>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFE >>>> Case -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> ] >>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>> Case >>>> - It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>> ] On >>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>> >>>> May 18, 2009 >>>> >>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>>> 16, >>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>> APCP >>>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>> expired >>>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the >>>> judgment >>>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from >>>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding >>>> that >>>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive >>>> material by >>>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >>>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >>>> >>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>> their >>>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >>>> possess) >>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>> While APCP >>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>> stipulate >>>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >>>> certification. >>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>> encourage >>>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively >>>> with >>>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >>>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they >>>> wish to >>>> purchase. >>>> Ensuring >>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>> essential >>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation >>>> by >>>> outside agencies. >>>> >>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>> should >>>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>> themselves >>>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >>>> District Court. >>>> >>>> Trip Barber >>>> NAR President >>>> >>>> Ken Good >>>> TRA President >>>> >>>> >>>> __._,_.___ >>>> Messages in this topic >>>> >>> 1NGV1Z >>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >>>> DMTA1N >>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>> (1) >>>> Reply >>>> (via web post) >>>> >>> BF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >>>> c2VjA2 >>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>> Start a new topic >>>> >>> BF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>> bnRwYw >>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>> Messages>>> MTJkNH >>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>> A2Z0cg >>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>> Files>>> JocmZy >>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >>>> RzbGsD >>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>> Photos>>> dHBpam >>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>> cgRzbG >>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>> Members>>> JkaDI4 >>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>> Z0cgRz >>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>> MARKETPLACE >>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>> Time!.>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>> SIG=12vq79phj/ >>>> *http:/ >>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >>>> tweek& >>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>> Sleep!.>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >>>> stweek >>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>> families, for the world and for each >>>> other>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>> *http:// >>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>> //grou >>>> ps >>>> .yahoo >>>> .com >>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>> Change settings via the >>>> Web>>> jJxBF9 >>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >>>> GsDc3R >>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>> via >>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>> Digest>>> very >>>> :% >>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>> Traditional>>> ange >>>> %2 >>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>> Visit Your Group >>>> >>> zk3MzU >>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >>>> HN0aW1 >>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>> | Unsubscribe >>>> >>>> Recent Activity >>>> >>>> Visit Your Group >>>> >>> zk3MzU >>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >>>> ARzdGl >>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>> Yahoo! News >>>> >>>> Get it all >>>> here>>> . >>>> 867457 >>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>> J=124269 >>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>> *http: >>>> //news >>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>> >>>> Breaking news to >>>> >>>> entertainment news >>>> >>>> Drive Traffic >>>> >>>> Sponsored >>>> Search>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/ >>>> *htt >>>> p://us >>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p >>>> hp >>>>> >>>> >>>> can help increase >>>> >>>> your site traffic. >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>> >>>> Mom >>>> Power>>> .86745 >>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>> J=12426 >>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>> *http >>>> ://gro >>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>> >>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>> >>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> __,_._,___ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 19:39:19 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:39:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> Message-ID: <3FF4EDDE33EE4C2DA62928FDBCE2C33A@Mobile2> I agree, but I would sign them out to be safe. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:36 PM To: Darrell D. Mobley Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In law school they told us judges don't legislate, they tell you what the law always was. So if a law is ruled invalid it was always invalid. Your real world mileage may vary on that though. On May 18, 2009, at 7:10 PM, Darrell D. Mobley wrote: > It would be premature to destroy your records. Until March 16th, APCP > was considered an explosive, and ATF may want you to retain them for > dates prior to that. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:54 PM >> To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'W. Raymond Stoner' >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase - It'sOver >> >> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to >> re-issue my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of >> the LEUP >> >> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> >> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> motors removed. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott T Bowers" >> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> onBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >> confirmation >>> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>> from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>> >>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>> >>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>> BATFE". >>>> >>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>> lost? >>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>> >>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>> >>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>> playing it safe? >>>> >>>> Ray >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> ] >>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Scott, >>>> >>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>> >>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>> 503-781-3529 >>>> >>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> ] >>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> ] >>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>> Case >>>> - It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>> ] On >>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>> >>>> May 18, 2009 >>>> >>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>>> 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification >>>> of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so >>>> has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe >>>> that the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>> motors. >>>> >>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>> to >>>> possess) >>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>> While APCP >>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>> flyer certification. >>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>>> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate >>>> with the motors they wish to purchase. >>>> Ensuring >>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>> overregulation by outside agencies. >>>> >>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>> Federal District Court. >>>> >>>> Trip Barber >>>> NAR President >>>> >>>> Ken Good >>>> TRA President >>>> >>>> >>>> __._,_.___ >>>> Messages in this topic >>>> >>> MTM >>>> 1NGV1Z >>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNn >>>> SWQ >>>> DMTA1N >>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>> (1) >>>> Reply >>>> (via web post) >>>> >>> Gtk >>>> BF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1N >>>> jYE >>>> c2VjA2 >>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>> Start a new topic >>>> >>> 243 >>>> BF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >>>> GsD >>>> bnRwYw >>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>> Messages>>> 3oD >>>> MTJkNH >>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc >>>> 2Vj >>>> A2Z0cg >>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>> Files>>> lOD >>>> JocmZy >>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z >>>> 0cg >>>> RzbGsD >>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>> Photos>>> TJk >>>> dHBpam >>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA >>>> 2Z0 >>>> cgRzbG >>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>> Members>>> DMT >>>> JkaDI4 >>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2V >>>> jA2 >>>> Z0cgRz >>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>> MARKETPLACE >>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>> Time!.>>> 573 >>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>> SIG=12vq79phj/ >>>> *http:/ >>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>> las >>>> tweek& >>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>> Sleep!.>>> 357 >>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID >>>> =la >>>> stweek >>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>> families, for the world and for each >>>> other>>> 503 >>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>> *http:// >>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>> //grou >>>> ps >>>> .yahoo >>>> .com >>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>> Change settings via the >>>> Web>>> U4N >>>> jJxBF9 >>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >>>> Rzb >>>> GsDc3R >>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>> via >>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>> Digest>>> eli >>>> very >>>> :% >>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>> Traditional>>> =Ch >>>> ange >>>> %2 >>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>> Visit Your Group >>>> >>> 9TA >>>> zk3MzU >>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaH >>>> BmB >>>> HN0aW1 >>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>> | Unsubscribe >>>> >>>> Recent Activity >>>> >>>> Visit Your Group >>>> >>> 9TA >>>> zk3MzU >>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm >>>> doc >>>> ARzdGl >>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>> Yahoo! News >>>> >>>> Get it all >>>> here>>> 01 >>>> . >>>> 867457 >>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>> J=124269 >>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>> *http: >>>> //news >>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>> >>>> Breaking news to >>>> >>>> entertainment news >>>> >>>> Drive Traffic >>>> >>>> Sponsored >>>> Search>>> 566 >>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/ >>>> *htt >>>> p://us >>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/inde >>>> x.p >>>> hp >>>>> >>>> >>>> can help increase >>>> >>>> your site traffic. >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>> >>>> Mom >>>> Power>>> 510 >>>> .86745 >>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>> J=12426 >>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>> *http >>>> ://gro >>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>> >>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>> >>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> __,_._,___ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bar0051 at homenetnw.net Mon May 18 19:39:11 2009 From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:39:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> Message-ID: <6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop> I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but as I read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still required. I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. Bryon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their manufacturers as > we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to > sell > reloads without having a LEUP on file? > > -Eugene > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" > ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > >> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue >> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >> >> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> >> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> motors removed. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott T Bowers" >> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> onBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>>I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>> >>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>> >>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>> BATFE". >>>> >>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>> lost? >>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>> >>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>> >>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>> playing it safe? >>>> >>>> Ray >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> ] >>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>> Case -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Scott, >>>> >>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>> >>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>> 503-781-3529 >>>> >>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> ] >>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>> Case -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> ] >>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>> Case >>>> - It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>> ] On >>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>> >>>> May 18, 2009 >>>> >>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that >>>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >>>> >>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>> to >>>> possess) >>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>> While APCP >>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>> flyer certification. >>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors >>>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the >>>> motors they wish to purchase. >>>> Ensuring >>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >>>> outside agencies. >>>> >>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>> Federal District Court. >>>> >>>> Trip Barber >>>> NAR President >>>> >>>> Ken Good >>>> TRA President >>>> >>>> >>>> __._,_.___ >>>> Messages in this topic >>>> >>> TM >>>> 1NGV1Z >>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>>> WQ >>>> DMTA1N >>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >>>> Reply >>>> (via web post) >>>> >>> tk >>>> BF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>>> YE >>>> c2VjA2 >>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>> Start a new topic >>>> >>> 43 >>>> BF9TAz >>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>>> sD >>>> bnRwYw >>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>> Messages>>> oD >>>> MTJkNH >>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>> Vj >>>> A2Z0cg >>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>> Files>>> OD >>>> JocmZy >>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>> cg >>>> RzbGsD >>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>> Photos>>> Jk >>>> dHBpam >>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>> Z0 >>>> cgRzbG >>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>> Members>>> MT >>>> JkaDI4 >>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>> A2 >>>> Z0cgRz >>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>> MARKETPLACE >>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>> Time!.>>> 73 >>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj >>>> / >>>> *http:/ >>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>>> as >>>> tweek& >>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>> Sleep!.>>> 57 >>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>> la >>>> stweek >>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>> families, for the world and for each >>>> other>>> 03 >>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>> *http:// >>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]>>> //grou >>>> ps >>>> .yahoo >>>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>> Change settings via the >>>> Web>>> 4N >>>> jJxBF9 >>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>>> zb >>>> GsDc3R >>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>> via >>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>> Digest>>> li >>>> very >>>> :% >>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>> Traditional>>> Ch >>>> ange >>>> %2 >>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>> Visit Your Group >>>> >>> TA >>>> zk3MzU >>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>>> mB >>>> HN0aW1 >>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>> | Unsubscribe >>>> >>>> Recent Activity >>>> >>>> Visit Your Group >>>> >>> TA >>>> zk3MzU >>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>>> oc >>>> ARzdGl >>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>> Yahoo! News >>>> >>>> Get it all >>>> here>>> 867457 >>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>> J=124269 >>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: >>>> //news >>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>> >>>> Breaking news to >>>> >>>> entertainment news >>>> >>>> Drive Traffic >>>> >>>> Sponsored >>>> Search>>> 66 >>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>> tt >>>> p://us >>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>>> .p >>>> hp >>>> > >>>> >>>> can help increase >>>> >>>> your site traffic. >>>> >>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>> >>>> Mom >>>> Power>>> 10 >>>> .86745 >>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>> / >>>> J=12426 >>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*ht >>>> tp >>>> ://gro >>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>> >>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>> >>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> __,_._,___ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Mon May 18 19:50:26 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:50:26 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] [TRA] VICTORY Message-ID: I'd like to personally thank everyone who had a part in this victory. It's been a long fight, and many of us have suffered financially, but still found a way to contribute. Our attorneys, the BOD's of TRA and NAR and all of the expert witnesses we had on our side should be commended. There were many in our membership who believed that the best outcome would be to compromise, even after the court victory. My hat is off to everybody who stuck to their guns and believed in their hearts that we would win. Now lets get back to growing the hobby from the rag-tag group that we still have left. Mike Fisher Binder Design _http://binderdesign.com_ (http://binderdesign.com) **************Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002) -------------- next part -------------- I'd like to personally thank everyone who had a part in this victory.? It's been a long fight, and many of us have suffered financially, but still found a way to contribute.? Our attorneys, the BOD's of TRA and NAR and all of the expert witnesses we had on our side should be commended.? There were many in our membership who believed that the best outcome would be to compromise, even after the court victory.? My hat is off to everybody who stuck to their guns and believed in their hearts that we would win. ? Now lets get back to growing the hobby from the rag-tag group that we still have left. ? Mike Fisher Binder Design http://binderdesign.com http://binderdesign.com ? Recession-proof vacation ideas. http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002 Find free things to do in the U.S. From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 19:54:52 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:54:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [TRA] VICTORY In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And that is the real cool part, the manufacturers and distributers will be able to grow their businesses again. Bigger market also means more profit. More profit means more innovation. I see some amazing things coming down the pike over the next few years. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:50 PM To: tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [TRA] VICTORY I'd like to personally thank everyone who had a part in this victory. It's been a long fight, and many of us have suffered financially, but still found a way to contribute. Our attorneys, the BOD's of TRA and NAR and all of the expert witnesses we had on our side should be commended. There were many in our membership who believed that the best outcome would be to compromise, even after the court victory. My hat is off to everybody who stuck to their guns and believed in their hearts that we would win. Now lets get back to growing the hobby from the rag-tag group that we still have left. Mike Fisher Binder Design _http://binderdesign.com_ (http://binderdesign.com) **************Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlc ntustrav00000002) From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 18 19:57:14 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:57:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> <3FF4EDDE33EE4C2DA62928FDBCE2C33A@Mobile2> Message-ID: Agreed, certainly not, they may come after us again.. But for me, for now, my leup, and motors - I'm going back to where I was before. Matches and other stuff, sure, I'll keep those on my leup. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'Darrell D. Mobley'" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >I agree, but I would sign them out to be safe. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:36 PM > To: Darrell D. Mobley > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > In law school they told us judges don't legislate, they tell you what the > law always was. So if a law is ruled invalid it was always invalid. > > Your real world mileage may vary on that though. > > > On May 18, 2009, at 7:10 PM, Darrell D. Mobley wrote: > >> It would be premature to destroy your records. Until March 16th, APCP >> was considered an explosive, and ATF may want you to retain them for >> dates prior to that. >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:54 PM >>> To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'W. Raymond Stoner' >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >>> StatementonBATFECase - It'sOver >>> >>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to >>> re-issue my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of >>> the LEUP >>> >>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>> >>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>> motors removed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>> confirmation >>>> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >>> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>> from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>> >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>> >>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>> BATFE". >>>>> >>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>> lost? >>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>> >>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>> playing it safe? >>>>> >>>>> Ray >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>> >>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>> >>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>> Case >>>>> - It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> ] On >>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>> >>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>> >>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>>>> 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification >>>>> of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so >>>>> has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe >>>>> that the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>> motors. >>>>> >>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>>> to >>>>> possess) >>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>> While APCP >>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>>> flyer certification. >>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>>>> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate >>>>> with the motors they wish to purchase. >>>>> Ensuring >>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>> overregulation by outside agencies. >>>>> >>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>> >>>>> Trip Barber >>>>> NAR President >>>>> >>>>> Ken Good >>>>> TRA President >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>> >>>> MTM >>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNn >>>>> SWQ >>>>> DMTA1N >>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>>> (1) >>>>> Reply >>>>> (via web post) >>>>> >>>> Gtk >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1N >>>>> jYE >>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>> Start a new topic >>>>> >>>> 243 >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >>>>> GsD >>>>> bnRwYw >>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Messages>>>> 3oD >>>>> MTJkNH >>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc >>>>> 2Vj >>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Files>>>> lOD >>>>> JocmZy >>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z >>>>> 0cg >>>>> RzbGsD >>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>> Photos>>>> TJk >>>>> dHBpam >>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA >>>>> 2Z0 >>>>> cgRzbG >>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Members>>>> DMT >>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2V >>>>> jA2 >>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>> Time!.>>>> 573 >>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12vq79phj/ >>>>> *http:/ >>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>> las >>>>> tweek& >>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>> Sleep!.>>>> 357 >>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID >>>>> =la >>>>> stweek >>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>> other>>>> 503 >>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http:// >>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>> //grou >>>>> ps >>>>> .yahoo >>>>> .com >>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>> Change settings via the >>>>> Web>>>> U4N >>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >>>>> Rzb >>>>> GsDc3R >>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>>> via >>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>> Digest>>>> eli >>>>> very >>>>> :% >>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>> Traditional>>>> =Ch >>>>> ange >>>>> %2 >>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> 9TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaH >>>>> BmB >>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>> >>>>> Recent Activity >>>>> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> 9TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm >>>>> doc >>>>> ARzdGl >>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>> >>>>> Get it all >>>>> here>>>> 01 >>>>> . >>>>> 867457 >>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=124269 >>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>> *http: >>>>> //news >>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Breaking news to >>>>> >>>>> entertainment news >>>>> >>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>> >>>>> Sponsored >>>>> Search>>>> 566 >>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/ >>>>> *htt >>>>> p://us >>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/inde >>>>> x.p >>>>> hp >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> can help increase >>>>> >>>>> your site traffic. >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>> >>>>> Mom >>>>> Power>>>> 510 >>>>> .86745 >>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=12426 >>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http >>>>> ://gro >>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> >>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>> >>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 19:59:40 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:59:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> <3FF4EDDE33EE4C2DA62928FDBCE2C33A@Mobile2> Message-ID: Matches? Never heard of them. I have deployment powder, ejection initiators, and motor starters. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:57 PM To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'Darrell D. Mobley' Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver Agreed, certainly not, they may come after us again.. But for me, for now, my leup, and motors - I'm going back to where I was before. Matches and other stuff, sure, I'll keep those on my leup. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'Darrell D. Mobley'" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >I agree, but I would sign them out to be safe. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:36 PM > To: Darrell D. Mobley > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > In law school they told us judges don't legislate, they tell you what the > law always was. So if a law is ruled invalid it was always invalid. > > Your real world mileage may vary on that though. > > > On May 18, 2009, at 7:10 PM, Darrell D. Mobley wrote: > >> It would be premature to destroy your records. Until March 16th, APCP >> was considered an explosive, and ATF may want you to retain them for >> dates prior to that. >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:54 PM >>> To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'W. Raymond Stoner' >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >>> StatementonBATFECase - It'sOver >>> >>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to >>> re-issue my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of >>> the LEUP >>> >>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>> >>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>> motors removed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>> confirmation >>>> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >>> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>> from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>> >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>> >>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>> BATFE". >>>>> >>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>> lost? >>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>> >>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>> playing it safe? >>>>> >>>>> Ray >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>> >>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>> >>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>> Case >>>>> - It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> ] On >>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>> >>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>> >>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>>>> 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification >>>>> of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so >>>>> has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe >>>>> that the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>> motors. >>>>> >>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>>> to >>>>> possess) >>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>> While APCP >>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>>> flyer certification. >>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>>>> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate >>>>> with the motors they wish to purchase. >>>>> Ensuring >>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>> overregulation by outside agencies. >>>>> >>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>> >>>>> Trip Barber >>>>> NAR President >>>>> >>>>> Ken Good >>>>> TRA President >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>> >>>> MTM >>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNn >>>>> SWQ >>>>> DMTA1N >>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>>> (1) >>>>> Reply >>>>> (via web post) >>>>> >>>> Gtk >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1N >>>>> jYE >>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>> Start a new topic >>>>> >>>> 243 >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >>>>> GsD >>>>> bnRwYw >>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Messages>>>> 3oD >>>>> MTJkNH >>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc >>>>> 2Vj >>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Files>>>> lOD >>>>> JocmZy >>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z >>>>> 0cg >>>>> RzbGsD >>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>> Photos>>>> TJk >>>>> dHBpam >>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA >>>>> 2Z0 >>>>> cgRzbG >>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Members>>>> DMT >>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2V >>>>> jA2 >>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>> Time!.>>>> 573 >>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12vq79phj/ >>>>> *http:/ >>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>> las >>>>> tweek& >>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>> Sleep!.>>>> 357 >>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID >>>>> =la >>>>> stweek >>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>> other>>>> 503 >>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http:// >>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>> //grou >>>>> ps >>>>> .yahoo >>>>> .com >>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>> Change settings via the >>>>> Web>>>> U4N >>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >>>>> Rzb >>>>> GsDc3R >>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>>> via >>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>> Digest>>>> eli >>>>> very >>>>> :% >>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>> Traditional>>>> =Ch >>>>> ange >>>>> %2 >>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> 9TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaH >>>>> BmB >>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>> >>>>> Recent Activity >>>>> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> 9TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm >>>>> doc >>>>> ARzdGl >>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>> >>>>> Get it all >>>>> here>>>> 01 >>>>> . >>>>> 867457 >>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=124269 >>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>> *http: >>>>> //news >>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Breaking news to >>>>> >>>>> entertainment news >>>>> >>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>> >>>>> Sponsored >>>>> Search>>>> 566 >>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/ >>>>> *htt >>>>> p://us >>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/inde >>>>> x.p >>>>> hp >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> can help increase >>>>> >>>>> your site traffic. >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>> >>>>> Mom >>>>> Power>>>> 510 >>>>> .86745 >>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=12426 >>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http >>>>> ://gro >>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> >>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>> >>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From terry at mooreread.com Mon May 18 20:05:58 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:05:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop> Message-ID: <90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com> I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead > but as I > read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still > required. I am > not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. > > Bryon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: > [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > >> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their >> manufacturers as >> we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing >> to >> sell >> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> >>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC >>> is >>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will >>> be >>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re- >>> issue >>> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>> >>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>> >>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>> motors removed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond >>> Stoner'" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>> confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>> from >>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>> >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>> >>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>> BATFE". >>>>> >>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>> lost? >>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>> >>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>> playing it safe? >>>>> >>>>> Ray >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE >>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>> >>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>> >>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE >>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>> Case >>>>> - It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> ] On >>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>> >>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>> >>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives >>>>> has >>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>>>> 16, >>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so >>>>> has >>>>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that >>>>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under >>>>> the >>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as >>>>> an >>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>> motors. >>>>> >>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or >>>>> plan >>>>> to >>>>> possess) >>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>> While APCP >>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements >>>>> of >>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level >>>>> of >>>>> flyer certification. >>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>>>> motors >>>>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with >>>>> the >>>>> motors they wish to purchase. >>>>> Ensuring >>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>> essential >>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>> overregulation by >>>>> outside agencies. >>>>> >>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>> >>>>> Trip Barber >>>>> NAR President >>>>> >>>>> Ken Good >>>>> TRA President >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>> >>>> TM >>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>>>> WQ >>>>> DMTA1N >>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>>> (1) >>>>> Reply >>>>> (via web post) >>>>> >>>> tk >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>>>> YE >>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>> Start a new topic >>>>> >>>> 43 >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>>>> sD >>>>> bnRwYw >>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Messages>>>> oD >>>>> MTJkNH >>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>> Vj >>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Files>>>> OD >>>>> JocmZy >>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>> cg >>>>> RzbGsD >>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>> Photos>>>> Jk >>>>> dHBpam >>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>> Z0 >>>>> cgRzbG >>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Members>>>> MT >>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>> A2 >>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>> Time!.>>>> 73 >>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12vq79phj >>>>> / >>>>> *http:/ >>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>>>> as >>>>> tweek& >>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>> Sleep!.>>>> 57 >>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>> la >>>>> stweek >>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>> other>>>> 03 >>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http:// >>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>> //grou >>>>> ps >>>>> .yahoo >>>>> .com >>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>> Change settings via the >>>>> Web>>>> 4N >>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>>>> zb >>>>> GsDc3R >>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change >>>>> settings >>>>> via >>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>> Digest>>>> li >>>>> very >>>>> :% >>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>> Traditional>>>> Ch >>>>> ange >>>>> %2 >>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>>>> mB >>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>> >>>>> Recent Activity >>>>> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>>>> oc >>>>> ARzdGl >>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>> >>>>> Get it all >>>>> here>>>> . >>>>> 867457 >>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=124269 >>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>> *http: >>>>> //news >>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Breaking news to >>>>> >>>>> entertainment news >>>>> >>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>> >>>>> Sponsored >>>>> Search>>>> 66 >>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>> tt >>>>> p://us >>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>>>> .p >>>>> hp >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> can help increase >>>>> >>>>> your site traffic. >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>> >>>>> Mom >>>>> Power>>>> 10 >>>>> .86745 >>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>> / >>>>> J=12426 >>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *ht >>>>> tp >>>>> ://gro >>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> >>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>> >>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 20:07:55 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:07:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop> <90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com> Message-ID: <043867DE3A3541FBAEBD497CD6E262CA@Mobile2> Wonder how that works, they want you to store it, but there are no records? How do you enforce it? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: Terry Moore-Read [mailto:terry at mooreread.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:06 PM To: Bryon Schopp Cc: Scott T Bowers; 'Eugene Samsonov'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but > as I read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still > required. I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. > > Bryon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: > [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > >> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their >> manufacturers as we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us >> know. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing >> to sell reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC >>> is not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I >>> will be destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT >>> to re- issue my license with rocket motors removed from the >>> "purpose" of the LEUP >>> >>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>> >>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>> motors removed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond >>> Stoner'" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>> confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>> from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>> >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>> >>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>> BATFE". >>>>> >>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>> lost? >>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>> >>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>> playing it safe? >>>>> >>>>> Ray >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>> >>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>> >>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>> Case >>>>> - It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> ] On >>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>> >>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>> >>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives >>>>> has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of >>>>> March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their >>>>> classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their >>>>> ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of >>>>> counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although >>>>> we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members >>>>> may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no >>>>> longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer >>>>> require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, >>>>> or possess such motors. >>>>> >>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or >>>>> plan to >>>>> possess) >>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>> While APCP >>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements >>>>> of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, >>>>> other materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level >>>>> of flyer certification. >>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>>>> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate >>>>> with the motors they wish to purchase. >>>>> Ensuring >>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>> overregulation by outside agencies. >>>>> >>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>> >>>>> Trip Barber >>>>> NAR President >>>>> >>>>> Ken Good >>>>> TRA President >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>> >>>> DM >>>>> TM >>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXN >>>>> nS >>>>> WQ >>>>> DMTA1N >>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>>> (1) >>>>> Reply >>>>> (via web post) >>>>> >>>> OG >>>>> tk >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1 >>>>> Nj >>>>> YE >>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>> Start a new topic >>>>> >>>> a2 >>>>> 43 >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRz >>>>> bG >>>>> sD >>>>> bnRwYw >>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Messages>>>> X3 >>>>> oD >>>>> MTJkNH >>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcE >>>>> c2 >>>>> Vj >>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Files>>>> Jl >>>>> OD >>>>> JocmZy >>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>> Z0 >>>>> cg >>>>> RzbGsD >>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>> Photos>>>> MT >>>>> Jk >>>>> dHBpam >>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>> A2 >>>>> Z0 >>>>> cgRzbG >>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Members>>>> oD >>>>> MT >>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>> Vj >>>>> A2 >>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>> Time!.>>>> 35 >>>>> 73 >>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12vq79phj >>>>> / >>>>> *http:/ >>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID >>>>> =l >>>>> as >>>>> tweek& >>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>> Sleep!.>>>> 53 >>>>> 57 >>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SI >>>>> D= >>>>> la >>>>> stweek >>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>> other>>>> 15 >>>>> 03 >>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http:// >>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>> //grou >>>>> ps >>>>> .yahoo >>>>> .com >>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>> Change settings via the >>>>> Web>>>> jU >>>>> 4N >>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0c >>>>> gR >>>>> zb >>>>> GsDc3R >>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change >>>>> settings >>>>> via >>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>> Digest>>>> De >>>>> li >>>>> very >>>>> :% >>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>> Traditional>>>> t= >>>>> Ch >>>>> ange >>>>> %2 >>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> F9 >>>>> TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDa >>>>> HB >>>>> mB >>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>> >>>>> Recent Activity >>>>> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> F9 >>>>> TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDd >>>>> md >>>>> oc >>>>> ARzdGl >>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>> >>>>> Get it all >>>>> here>>>> 701 >>>>> . >>>>> 867457 >>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=124269 >>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>> *http: >>>>> //news >>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Breaking news to >>>>> >>>>> entertainment news >>>>> >>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>> >>>>> Sponsored >>>>> Search>>>> 45 >>>>> 66 >>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>> tt >>>>> p://us >>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/ind >>>>> ex >>>>> .p >>>>> hp >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> can help increase >>>>> >>>>> your site traffic. >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>> >>>>> Mom >>>>> Power>>>> 75 >>>>> 10 >>>>> .86745 >>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>> / >>>>> J=12426 >>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *ht >>>>> tp >>>>> ://gro >>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> >>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>> >>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rwjcom at comcast.net Mon May 18 20:10:50 2009 From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:10:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] ADVERT: Seeking short term adult relationship References: Message-ID: <496571ED-713D-44AA-ABF5-555F7048C746@comcast.net> > (Duplicate posting from one sent to the WAC list) > > Good news is so confusing. This whole legal thing has me doubting > my need for a particular type of relationship. > > So I think I need a friend, but I am not sure about that. > > Frankly it seems a little creepy to be turning to the internet to > try and find a buddy for an out of town weekend trip. I am kind of > new to this kind of thing so not sure of the etiquette for finding a > short term relationship that might involve the exchange of funds - > perhaps in a three-way situation. > > It was so much easier when Mom tied a pork chop around my neck in > grade school in order to get the dogs to play with me. Now I have to > figure out how to do it myself. > > So, you can probably guess where this is all heading. I am planning > to go for my L1 Cert. at FITS and am personally LEUP-less. Has the > LEUP requirement vanished so that I can transact my motor business > on my own? > > If not, would anyone volunteer to be my LEUP buddy for the weekend? > I am planning to fly four H motors this weekend which I hope would > not place a significant burden on the kind hearted soul that answers > this ad. I am planning to fly all of the motors I buy. > > > Best, > > > Bob Jimerson From mrrominwa at yahoo.com Mon May 18 20:23:37 2009 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver Message-ID: <505002.20497.qm@web53102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> We Puget Sound Propulsion at this time will not require a leup but we are seeking guidance from L&I on the state licence requirement? Purchaser's license. Currently our veiwpoint is no restrictions will post if any changes ???????????????????????????????? Dave & Bill ????????????????????? Bill & Dave ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (pur--- On Mon, 5/18/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: From: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" , "'Bryon Schopp'" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 8:07 PM Wonder how that works, they want you to store it, but there are no records? How do you enforce it? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: Terry Moore-Read [mailto:terry at mooreread.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:06 PM To: Bryon Schopp Cc: Scott T Bowers; 'Eugene Samsonov'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but > as I read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still > required.? I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. > > Bryon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: > [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > >> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their >> manufacturers as we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us >> know. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing >> to sell reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'"? >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC >>> is not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I >>> will be destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT >>> to re- issue my license with rocket motors removed from the >>> "purpose" of the LEUP >>> >>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>> >>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>> motors removed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond >>> Stoner'" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>> confirmation? from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>> from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>> >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>> >>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>> BATFE". >>>>> >>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>> lost? >>>>> Isn't the judgment final now?? I'm under the impression that when >>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>> from the time the order is filed.? The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required.? At the time the >>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>> >>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>> for it to take effect?? What gives? >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>> playing it safe? >>>>> >>>>> Ray >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>> >>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>> >>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>> Case >>>>> - It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> ] On >>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>> >>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>> >>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives >>>>> has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of >>>>> March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their >>>>> classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their >>>>> ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of >>>>> counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although >>>>> we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members >>>>> may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no >>>>> longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer >>>>> require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, >>>>> or possess such motors. >>>>> >>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or >>>>> plan to >>>>> possess) >>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>> While APCP >>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements >>>>> of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, >>>>> other materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level >>>>> of flyer certification. >>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>>>> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate >>>>> with the motors they wish to purchase. >>>>> Ensuring >>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>> overregulation by outside agencies. >>>>> >>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>> >>>>> Trip Barber >>>>> NAR President >>>>> >>>>> Ken Good >>>>> TRA President >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>> >>>> DM >>>>> TM >>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXN >>>>> nS >>>>> WQ >>>>> DMTA1N >>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2>? >>>>> (1) >>>>> Reply >>>>> (via web post) >>>>> >>>> OG >>>>> tk >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1 >>>>> Nj >>>>> YE >>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>> Start a new topic >>>>> >>>> a2 >>>>> 43 >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRz >>>>> bG >>>>> sD >>>>> bnRwYw >>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Messages>>>> X3 >>>>> oD >>>>> MTJkNH >>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcE >>>>> c2 >>>>> Vj >>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Files>>>> Jl >>>>> OD >>>>> JocmZy >>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>> Z0 >>>>> cg >>>>> RzbGsD >>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>> Photos>>>> MT >>>>> Jk >>>>> dHBpam >>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>> A2 >>>>> Z0 >>>>> cgRzbG >>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Members>>>> oD >>>>> MT >>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>> Vj >>>>> A2 >>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>> Time!.>>>> 35 >>>>> 73 >>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12vq79phj >>>>> / >>>>> *http:/ >>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID >>>>> =l >>>>> as >>>>> tweek& >>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>> Sleep!.>>>> 53 >>>>> 57 >>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SI >>>>> D= >>>>> la >>>>> stweek >>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>> other>>>> 15 >>>>> 03 >>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http:// >>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>> //grou >>>>> ps >>>>> .yahoo >>>>> .com >>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>> Change settings via the >>>>> Web>>>> jU >>>>> 4N >>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0c >>>>> gR >>>>> zb >>>>> GsDc3R >>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change >>>>> settings >>>>> via >>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>> Digest>>>> De >>>>> li >>>>> very >>>>> :% >>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>> Traditional>>>> t= >>>>> Ch >>>>> ange >>>>> %2 >>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> F9 >>>>> TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDa >>>>> HB >>>>> mB >>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>> >>>>> Recent Activity >>>>> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> F9 >>>>> TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDd >>>>> md >>>>> oc >>>>> ARzdGl >>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>> >>>>> Get it all >>>>> here>>>> 701 >>>>> . >>>>> 867457 >>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=124269 >>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>> *http: >>>>> //news >>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Breaking news to >>>>> >>>>> entertainment news >>>>> >>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>> >>>>> Sponsored >>>>> Search>>>> 45 >>>>> 66 >>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>> tt >>>>> p://us >>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/ind >>>>> ex >>>>> .p >>>>> hp >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> can help increase >>>>> >>>>> your site traffic. >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>> >>>>> Mom >>>>> Power>>>> 75 >>>>> 10 >>>>> .86745 >>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>> / >>>>> J=12426 >>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *ht >>>>> tp >>>>> ://gro >>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> >>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>> >>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- We Puget Sound Propulsion at this time will not require a leup but we are seeking guidance from L&I on the state licence requirement? Purchaser's license. Currently our veiwpoint is no restrictions will post if any changes ???????????????????????????????? Dave & Bill ????????????????????? Bill & Dave ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (pur--- On Mon, 5/18/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: From: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" , "'Bryon Schopp'" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 8:07 PM Wonder how that works, they want you to store it, but there are no records? How do you enforce it? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: Terry Moore-Read [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com ] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:06 PM To: Bryon Schopp Cc: Scott T Bowers; 'Eugene Samsonov'; http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but > as I read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still > required.? I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. > > Bryon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=scott at scottsrockets.com scott at scottsrockets.com > > To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=eas0171 at gmail.com eas0171 at gmail.com > > Cc: < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: > [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > >> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their >> manufacturers as we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us >> know. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing >> to sell reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lawndart.robert at gmail.com lawndart.robert at gmail.com > >> To: "Scott T Bowers" < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=scott at scottsrockets.com scott at scottsrockets.com >; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com >; "'W. Raymond Stoner'"? >> < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=raystoner99 at comcast.net raystoner99 at comcast.net > >> Cc: < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC >>> is not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I >>> will be destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT >>> to re- issue my license with rocket motors removed from the >>> "purpose" of the LEUP >>> >>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>> >>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>> motors removed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=scott at scottsrockets.com scott at scottsrockets.com > >>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com >; "'W. Raymond >>> Stoner'" >>> < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=raystoner99 at comcast.net raystoner99 at comcast.net > >>> Cc: < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>> confirmation? from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] >>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>> Cc: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>> from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>> >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>> >>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>> BATFE". >>>>> >>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>> lost? >>>>> Isn't the judgment final now?? I'm under the impression that when >>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>> from the time the order is filed.? The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required.? At the time the >>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>> >>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>> for it to take effect?? What gives? >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>> playing it safe? >>>>> >>>>> Ray >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com ; >>>>> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>> >>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>> >>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>> To: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com ; http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>> To: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>> Case >>>>> - It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> ] On >>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>> To: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>> >>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>> >>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives >>>>> has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of >>>>> March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their >>>>> classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their >>>>> ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of >>>>> counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although >>>>> we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members >>>>> may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no >>>>> longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer >>>>> require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, >>>>> or possess such motors. >>>>> >>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or >>>>> plan to >>>>> possess) >>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>> While APCP >>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements >>>>> of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, >>>>> other materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level >>>>> of flyer certification. >>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>>>> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate >>>>> with the motors they wish to purchase. >>>>> Ensuring >>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>> overregulation by outside agencies. >>>>> >>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>> >>>>> Trip Barber >>>>> NAR President >>>>> >>>>> Ken Good >>>>> TRA President >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/message/10566;_ylc=X3o http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/message/10566;_ylc=X3o >>>>> DM >>>>> TM >>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXN >>>>> nS >>>>> WQ >>>>> DMTA1N >>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2>? >>>>> (1) >>>>> Reply >>>>> (via web post) >>>>> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwdjVy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwdjVy >>>>> OG >>>>> tk >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1 >>>>> Nj >>>>> YE >>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>> Start a new topic >>>>> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMHJ1 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMHJ1 >>>>> a2 >>>>> 43 >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRz >>>>> bG >>>>> sD >>>>> bnRwYw >>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Messages< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/messages;_ylc= http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/messages;_ylc= >>>>> X3 >>>>> oD >>>>> MTJkNH >>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcE >>>>> c2 >>>>> Vj >>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Files< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/files;_ylc=X3oDMT http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/files;_ylc=X3oDMT >>>>> Jl >>>>> OD >>>>> JocmZy >>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>> Z0 >>>>> cg >>>>> RzbGsD >>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>> Photos< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/photos;_ylc=X3oD http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/photos;_ylc=X3oD >>>>> MT >>>>> Jk >>>>> dHBpam >>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>> A2 >>>>> Z0 >>>>> cgRzbG >>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Members< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/members;_ylc=X3 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/members;_ylc=X3 >>>>> oD >>>>> MT >>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>> Vj >>>>> A2 >>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>> Time!.< http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14krhhvt2/M=733250.13450161.135 http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14krhhvt2/M=733250.13450161.135 >>>>> 35 >>>>> 73 >>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12vq79phj >>>>> / >>>>> *http:/ >>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID >>>>> =l >>>>> as >>>>> tweek& >>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>> Sleep!.< http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14k2au7hp/M=733250.13450162.13 http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14k2au7hp/M=733250.13450162.13 >>>>> 53 >>>>> 57 >>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SI >>>>> D= >>>>> la >>>>> stweek >>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>> other< http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14kv83v8m/M=493064.12016295.1327 http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14kv83v8m/M=493064.12016295.1327 >>>>> 15 >>>>> 03 >>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http:// >>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> [ http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>> //grou >>>>> ps >>>>> .yahoo >>>>> .com >>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>> Change settings via the >>>>> Web< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN >>>>> jU >>>>> 4N >>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0c >>>>> gR >>>>> zb >>>>> GsDc3R >>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change >>>>> settings >>>>> via >>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>> Digest>>>> De >>>>> li >>>>> very >>>>> :% >>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>> Traditional>>>> t= >>>>> Ch >>>>> ange >>>>> %2 >>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNmFnanRkB http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNmFnanRkB >>>>> F9 >>>>> TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDa >>>>> HB >>>>> mB >>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > | Unsubscribe >>>>> >>>>> Recent Activity >>>>> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdjBrb2NpB http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NAR_Sections;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdjBrb2NpB >>>>> F9 >>>>> TA >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDd >>>>> md >>>>> oc >>>>> ARzdGl >>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>> >>>>> Get it all >>>>> here< http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14hib88eq/M=493064.12016309.12445 http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14hib88eq/M=493064.12016309.12445 >>>>> 701 >>>>> . >>>>> 867457 >>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=124269 >>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>> *http: >>>>> //news >>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Breaking news to >>>>> >>>>> entertainment news >>>>> >>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>> >>>>> Sponsored >>>>> Search< http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14h0dtvmn/M=493064.12016255.124 http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14h0dtvmn/M=493064.12016255.124 >>>>> 45 >>>>> 66 >>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>> tt >>>>> p://us >>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/* http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/ind http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/ind >>>>> ex >>>>> .p >>>>> hp >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> can help increase >>>>> >>>>> your site traffic. >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>> >>>>> Mom >>>>> Power< http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14hf59job/M=493064.12662709.1349 http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14hf59job/M=493064.12662709.1349 >>>>> 75 >>>>> 10 >>>>> .86745 >>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>> / >>>>> J=12426 >>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *ht >>>>> tp >>>>> ://gro >>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> >>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>> >>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From jhadv at pacifier.com Mon May 18 20:33:20 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2806.67.189.35.224.1242704000.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama administration dropped the entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. From appusher at q.com Mon May 18 20:38:26 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 03:38:26 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <000001c9d82d$ae44eb50$0acec1f0$@com> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <000001c9d82d$ae44eb50$0acec1f0$@com> Message-ID: Eugene and all, Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along with motor starters.. I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts after I talk with him. WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal for pre-orders at an additional 3%. Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and get a gift rather than Stubbin and getting nothing. BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, and more good stuff. Burn 'em if you got 'em, Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com > To: eas0171 at gmail.com > CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 > > good question > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to sell > reloads without having a LEUP on file? > > -Eugene > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" > ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is not > > an > > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be destroying > > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license > > with > > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with motors > > removed. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scott T Bowers" > > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received > >>confirmation > >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > >> To: W. Raymond Stoner > >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase > >> -It'sOver > >> > >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from > >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > >> > >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > >> > >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE". > >>> > >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >>> lost? > >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait > >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, > >>> the law changed. > >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could > >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during > >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >>> > >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for > >>> it to take effect? What gives? > >>> > >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >>> playing it safe? > >>> > >>> Ray > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Scott, > >>> > >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >>> > >>> Dennis S Winningstad > >>> 503-781-3529 > >>> > >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >>> > >>> > >>> Scott T. Bowers > >>> www.scottsrockets.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > >>> - It'sOver > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> ] On > >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >>> > >>> May 18, 2009 > >>> > >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >>> > >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > >>> possess) > >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >>> While APCP > >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > >>> certification. > >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > >>> purchase. > >>> Ensuring > >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by > >>> outside agencies. > >>> > >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal > >>> District Court. > >>> > >>> Trip Barber > >>> NAR President > >>> > >>> Ken Good > >>> TRA President > >>> > >>> > >>> __._,_.___ > >>> Messages in this topic > >>> >>> 1NGV1Z > >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ > >>> DMTA1N > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > >>> Reply > >>> (via web post) > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE > >>> c2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > >>> Start a new topic > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > >>> bnRwYw > >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Messages >>> MTJkNH > >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > >>> A2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Files >>> JocmZy > >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsD > >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >>> Photos >>> dHBpam > >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 > >>> cgRzbG > >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Members >>> JkaDI4 > >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRz > >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> MARKETPLACE > >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >>> Time!. >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ > >>> *http:/ > >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las > >>> tweek& > >>> SID=GetPaid> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> I make $75/Hour. While I > >>> Sleep!. >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la > >>> stweek > >>> &SID=75sleep> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >>> families, for the world and for each > >>> other >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ > >>> *http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >>> //grou > >>> ps > >>> .yahoo > >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >>> Change settings via the > >>> Web >>> jJxBF9 > >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > >>> GsDc3R > >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > >>> via > >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >>> Digest >>> very > >>> :% > >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >>> Traditional >>> ange > >>> %2 > >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB > >>> HN0aW1 > >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >>> | Unsubscribe > >>> > >>> Recent Activity > >>> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc > >>> ARzdGl > >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Yahoo! News > >>> > >>> Get it all > >>> here >>> 867457 > >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=124269 > >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >>> //news > >>> .yahoo.com/> > >>> > >>> Breaking news to > >>> > >>> entertainment news > >>> > >>> Drive Traffic > >>> > >>> Sponsored > >>> Search >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt > >>> p://us > >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p > >>> hp > >>> > > >>> > >>> can help increase > >>> > >>> your site traffic. > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups > >>> > >>> Mom > >>> Power >>> .86745 > >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=12426 > >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http > >>> ://gro > >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> > >>> Find wholesome recipes > >>> > >>> and more. Go Moms Go! > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >>> __,_._,___ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- Eugene and all, ? Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free.? Along with motor starters.. ? I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts after I talk with him. ? WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. ? Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch.? PayPal for pre-orders at an additional 3%. Club members receive a 5% discount.? Fliers or attendees that work the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and get a gift rather than Stubbin and getting nothing. ? BUY RAFFLE TICKETS.? BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION.? Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, and more good stuff. ? Burn 'em if you got 'em, ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com > To: eas0171 at gmail.com > CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 > > good question > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to sell > reloads without having a LEUP on file? > > -Eugene > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" > ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is not > > an > > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be destroying > > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license > > with > > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with motors > > removed. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scott T Bowers" > > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received > >>confirmation > >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > >> To: W. Raymond Stoner > >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase > >> -It'sOver > >> > >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from > >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > >> > >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > >> > >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE". > >>> > >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >>> lost? > >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait > >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, > >>> the law changed. > >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could > >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during > >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >>> > >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for > >>> it to take effect? What gives? > >>> > >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >>> playing it safe? > >>> > >>> Ray > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Scott, > >>> > >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >>> > >>> Dennis S Winningstad > >>> 503-781-3529 > >>> > >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >>> > >>> > >>> Scott T. Bowers > >>> www.scottsrockets.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > >>> - It'sOver > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> ] On > >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >>> > >>> May 18, 2009 > >>> > >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >>> > >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > >>> possess) > >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >>> While APCP > >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > >>> certification. > >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > >>> purchase. > >>> Ensuring > >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by > >>> outside agencies. > >>> > >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal > >>> District Court. > >>> > >>> Trip Barber > >>> NAR President > >>> > >>> Ken Good > >>> TRA President > >>> > >>> > >>> __._,_.___ > >>> Messages in this topic > >>> >>> 1NGV1Z > >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ > >>> DMTA1N > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > >>> Reply > >>> (via web post) > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE > >>> c2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > >>> Start a new topic > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > >>> bnRwYw > >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Messages >>> MTJkNH > >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > >>> A2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Files >>> JocmZy > >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsD > >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >>> Photos >>> dHBpam > >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 > >>> cgRzbG > >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Members >>> JkaDI4 > >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRz > >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> MARKETPLACE > >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >>> Time!. >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ > >>> *http:/ > >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las > >>> tweek& > >>> SID=GetPaid> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> I make $75/Hour. While I > >>> Sleep!. >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la > >>> stweek > >>> &SID=75sleep> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >>> families, for the world and for each > >>> other >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ > >>> *http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >>> //grou > >>> ps > >>> .yahoo > >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >>> Change settings via the > >>> Web >>> jJxBF9 > >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > >>> GsDc3R > >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > >>> via > >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >>> Digest >>> very > >>> :% > >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >>> Traditional >>> ange > >>> %2 > >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB > >>> HN0aW1 > >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >>> | Unsubscribe > >>> > >>> Recent Activity > >>> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc > >>> ARzdGl > >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Yahoo! News > >>> > >>> Get it all > >>> here >>> 867457 > >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=124269 > >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >>> //news > >>> .yahoo.com/> > >>> > >>> Breaking news to > >>> > >>> entertainment news > >>> > >>> Drive Traffic > >>> > >>> Sponsored > >>> Search >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt > >>> p://us > >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p > >>> hp > >>> > > >>> > >>> can help increase > >>> > >>> your site traffic. > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups > >>> > >>> Mom > >>> Power >>> .86745 > >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=12426 > >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http > >>> ://gro > >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> > >>> Find wholesome recipes > >>> > >>> and more. Go Moms Go! > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >>> __,_._,___ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 20:43:42 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:43:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv><000001c9d82d$ae44eb50$0acec1f0$@com> Message-ID: <85162F3DC3FD4C939134B2B0CD264049@Mobile2> That is very good to hear! Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM To: John Hawkins; eas0171 at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver Importance: High Eugene and all, Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along with motor starters.. I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts after I talk with him. WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal for pre-orders at an additional 3%. Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and get a gift rather than Stubbin and getting nothing. BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, and more good stuff. Burn 'em if you got 'em, Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com > To: eas0171 at gmail.com > CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 > > good question > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to > sell reloads without having a LEUP on file? > > -Eugene > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" > ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC > > is not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I > > will be destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT > > to re-issue my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" > > of the LEUP > > > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with > > motors removed. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scott T Bowers" > > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received > >>confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > >> To: W. Raymond Stoner > >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFECase -It'sOver > >> > >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain > >> from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > >> > >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > >> > >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE". > >>> > >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >>> lost? > >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when > >>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective > >>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice > >>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the > >>> judgment was entered, the law changed. > >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there > >>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased > >>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >>> > >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling > >>> for it to take effect? What gives? > >>> > >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >>> playing it safe? > >>> > >>> Ray > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >>> BATFE Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Scott, > >>> > >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >>> > >>> Dennis S Winningstad > >>> 503-781-3529 > >>> > >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >>> BATFE Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >>> > >>> > >>> Scott T. Bowers > >>> www.scottsrockets.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case > >>> - It'sOver > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> ] On > >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >>> > >>> May 18, 2009 > >>> > >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives > >>> has not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of > >>> March 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their > >>> classification of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their > >>> ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of > >>> counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although > >>> we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members > >>> may operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no > >>> longer regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer > >>> require the permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >>> > >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate > >>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or > >>> plan to > >>> possess) > >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >>> While APCP > >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements > >>> of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, > >>> other materials may be subject to these requirements. > >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes > >>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level > >>> of flyer certification. > >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly > >>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work > >>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket > >>> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate > >>> with the motors they wish to purchase. > >>> Ensuring > >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an > >>> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from > >>> overregulation by outside agencies. > >>> > >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA > >>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct > >>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the > >>> Federal District Court. > >>> > >>> Trip Barber > >>> NAR President > >>> > >>> Ken Good > >>> TRA President > >>> > >>> > >>> __._,_.___ > >>> Messages in this topic > >>> >>> DMTM > >>> 1NGV1Z > >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXN > >>> nSWQ > >>> DMTA1N > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> ( > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> 1 > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> ) > >>> Reply > >>> (via web post) > >>> >>> OGtk > >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1 > >>> NjYE > >>> c2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> > >>> | Start a new topic > >>> >>> a243 > >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRz > >>> bGsD > >>> bnRwYw > >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Messages >>> X3oD > >>> MTJkNH > >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcE > >>> c2Vj > >>> A2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Files >>> JlOD > >>> JocmZy > >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > >>> Z0cg > >>> RzbGsD > >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >>> Photos >>> MTJk > >>> dHBpam > >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > >>> A2Z0 > >>> cgRzbG > >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Members >>> oDMT > >>> JkaDI4 > >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 > >>> VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRz > >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> MARKETPLACE > >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >>> Time!. >>> 3573 > >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79p > >>> hj/ > >>> *http:/ > >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID > >>> =las > >>> tweek& > >>> SID=GetPaid> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> I make $75/Hour. While I > >>> Sleep!. >>> 5357 > >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SI > >>> D=la > >>> stweek > >>> &SID=75sleep> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >>> families, for the world and for each > >>> other >>> 1503 > >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dk > >>> e/ > >>> *http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >>> //grou > >>> ps > >>> .yahoo > >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnB > >>> zc > >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >>> Change settings via the > >>> Web >>> jU4N > >>> jJxBF9 > >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0c > >>> gRzb > >>> GsDc3R > >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change > >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> settings > >>> via > >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >>> Digest >>> Deli > >>> very > >>> :% > >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >>> Traditional >>> t=Ch > >>> ange > >>> %2 > >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> F9TA > >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDa > >>> HBmB > >>> HN0aW1 > >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >>> | Unsubscribe > >>> > >>> Recent Activity > >>> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> F9TA > >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDd > >>> mdoc > >>> ARzdGl > >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Yahoo! News > >>> > >>> Get it all > >>> here >>> 867457 > >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8 > >>> -/ > >>> J=124269 > >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >>> //news > >>> .yahoo.com/> > >>> > >>> Breaking news to > >>> > >>> entertainment news > >>> > >>> Drive Traffic > >>> > >>> Sponsored > >>> Search >>> 4566 > >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/ > >>> *htt > >>> p://us > >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/ind > >>> ex.p > >>> hp > >>> > > >>> > >>> can help increase > >>> > >>> your site traffic. > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups > >>> > >>> Mom > >>> Power >>> 7510 > >>> .86745 > >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF > >>> 8-/ > >>> J=12426 > >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/* > >>> http > >>> ://gro > >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> > >>> Find wholesome recipes > >>> > >>> and more. Go Moms Go! > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >>> __,_._,___ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From jpr602 at mac.com Mon May 18 20:45:34 2009 From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:45:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] ADVERT: Seeking short term adult relationship In-Reply-To: <496571ED-713D-44AA-ABF5-555F7048C746@comcast.net> References: <496571ED-713D-44AA-ABF5-555F7048C746@comcast.net> Message-ID: <02CDA20D-50E7-4037-AE2B-DADF8D566F46@mac.com> On May 18, 2009, at 8:10 PM, Bob Jimerson wrote: >> Has the >> LEUP requirement vanished so that I can transact my motor business >> on my own? The LEUP requirement is gone (for APCP, you still need one for e- matches). You still need to be NAR or TRA certified to buy high power motors, so you will need a mentor to get certified. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 18 20:47:05 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS References: <2806.67.189.35.224.1242704000.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <79CFE6249D8B4A4CBB655A6821854A3B@LaptopKrausert> Paul, I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off the > list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the caveat of > state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage all of that is > gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail is what > Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you tooth and > toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama administration dropped the > entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what party is > actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a caveat, I > personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think he pursues a > policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of obfuscating the > fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the form of the financial > class. I disagree with this policy more than I can say but at least he > threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes it past the rocket list > censors and would ask out of politeness that no responses be made. Just > my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From eas0171 at gmail.com Mon May 18 20:47:43 2009 From: eas0171 at gmail.com (Eugene Samsonov) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <000001c9d82d$ae44eb50$0acec1f0$@com> Message-ID: Yeah!!! I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did not renew it...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: "John Hawkins" ; ; Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Eugene and all, Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along with motor starters.. I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts after I talk with him. WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal for pre-orders at an additional 3%. Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and get a gift rather than Stubbin and getting nothing. BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, and more good stuff. Burn 'em if you got 'em, Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com > To: eas0171 at gmail.com > CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 > > good question > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to > sell > reloads without having a LEUP on file? > > -Eugene > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" > ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is > > not > > an > > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be > > destroying > > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license > > with > > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with > > motors > > removed. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scott T Bowers" > > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received > >>confirmation > >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > >> To: W. Raymond Stoner > >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFECase > >> -It'sOver > >> > >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from > >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > >> > >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > >> > >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE". > >>> > >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >>> lost? > >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait > >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, > >>> the law changed. > >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could > >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during > >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >>> > >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for > >>> it to take effect? What gives? > >>> > >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >>> playing it safe? > >>> > >>> Ray > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Scott, > >>> > >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >>> > >>> Dennis S Winningstad > >>> 503-781-3529 > >>> > >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >>> > >>> > >>> Scott T. Bowers > >>> www.scottsrockets.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > >>> - It'sOver > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> ] On > >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >>> > >>> May 18, 2009 > >>> > >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >>> > >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > >>> possess) > >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >>> While APCP > >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > >>> certification. > >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > >>> purchase. > >>> Ensuring > >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by > >>> outside agencies. > >>> > >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal > >>> District Court. > >>> > >>> Trip Barber > >>> NAR President > >>> > >>> Ken Good > >>> TRA President > >>> > >>> > >>> __._,_.___ > >>> Messages in this topic > >>> >>> 1NGV1Z > >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ > >>> DMTA1N > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > >>> Reply > >>> (via web post) > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE > >>> c2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > >>> Start a new topic > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > >>> bnRwYw > >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Messages >>> MTJkNH > >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > >>> A2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Files >>> JocmZy > >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsD > >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >>> Photos >>> dHBpam > >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 > >>> cgRzbG > >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Members >>> JkaDI4 > >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRz > >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> MARKETPLACE > >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >>> Time!. >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ > >>> *http:/ > >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las > >>> tweek& > >>> SID=GetPaid> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> I make $75/Hour. While I > >>> Sleep!. >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la > >>> stweek > >>> &SID=75sleep> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >>> families, for the world and for each > >>> other >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ > >>> *http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >>> //grou > >>> ps > >>> .yahoo > >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >>> Change settings via the > >>> Web >>> jJxBF9 > >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > >>> GsDc3R > >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > >>> via > >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >>> Digest >>> very > >>> :% > >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >>> Traditional >>> ange > >>> %2 > >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB > >>> HN0aW1 > >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >>> | Unsubscribe > >>> > >>> Recent Activity > >>> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc > >>> ARzdGl > >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Yahoo! News > >>> > >>> Get it all > >>> here >>> 867457 > >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=124269 > >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >>> //news > >>> .yahoo.com/> > >>> > >>> Breaking news to > >>> > >>> entertainment news > >>> > >>> Drive Traffic > >>> > >>> Sponsored > >>> Search >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt > >>> p://us > >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p > >>> hp > >>> > > >>> > >>> can help increase > >>> > >>> your site traffic. > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups > >>> > >>> Mom > >>> Power >>> .86745 > >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=12426 > >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http > >>> ://gro > >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> > >>> Find wholesome recipes > >>> > >>> and more. Go Moms Go! > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >>> __,_._,___ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 20:47:46 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] ADVERT: Seeking short term adult relationship In-Reply-To: <02CDA20D-50E7-4037-AE2B-DADF8D566F46@mac.com> References: <496571ED-713D-44AA-ABF5-555F7048C746@comcast.net> <02CDA20D-50E7-4037-AE2B-DADF8D566F46@mac.com> Message-ID: Don't use e-matches, use deployment actuators..... Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Roberts Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:46 PM To: Bob Jimerson Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ADVERT: Seeking short term adult relationship On May 18, 2009, at 8:10 PM, Bob Jimerson wrote: >> Has the >> LEUP requirement vanished so that I can transact my motor business on >> my own? The LEUP requirement is gone (for APCP, you still need one for e- matches). You still need to be NAR or TRA certified to buy high power motors, so you will need a mentor to get certified. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Mon May 18 20:59:07 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 03:59:07 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Update..... INDY 500 Contest..... 4th annual In-Reply-To: <051820092024.14328.4A11C41200041207000037F822230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <051820092024.14328.4A11C41200041207000037F822230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Tim, Stop by Daron Johnsons camp and you cna watch it on satellite. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: t.j.doll at att.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:24:50 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Update..... INDY 500 Contest..... 4th annual > > You are going to make it tough on me..... > > The DVR is set to record the race, and I do NOT what to know what happens before I get home and watch the race on Monday...... > > Tim > > >Returning this year..... > >That's right race fans, > > > >In honor of the Indy 500, we will be having our 4th annual INDY 500 > >raffle at our booth at FITS! -------------- next part -------------- Tim, ? Stop by Daron Johnsons camp and you cna watch it on satellite. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: t.j.doll at att.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:24:50 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Update..... INDY 500 Contest..... 4th annual > > You are going to make it tough on me..... > > The DVR is set to record the race, and I do NOT what to know what happens before I get home and watch the race on Monday...... > > Tim > > >Returning this year..... > >That's right race fans, > > > >In honor of the Indy 500, we will be having our 4th annual INDY 500 > >raffle at our booth at FITS! From rwjcom at comcast.net Mon May 18 21:04:06 2009 From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:04:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] E-match? Message-ID: So what is an e-match and why do they require a LEUP? Are they something different than the motor igniters that I bought over the counter at the hobby shop in Portland? From jim at jmw29221.com Mon May 18 21:05:20 2009 From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:05:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: <79CFE6249D8B4A4CBB655A6821854A3B@LaptopKrausert> References: <2806.67.189.35.224.1242704000.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <79CFE6249D8B4A4CBB655A6821854A3B@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <55caf0ba41ab933d283082958469b67d@mx1.blastzone.com> Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for Neville Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal to the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and who also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out of politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to RMR where you belong. And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you instead of offering to turn around and give them up. On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" wrote: > Paul, > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off the >> list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the caveat of >> state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage all of that >> is >> gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail is what >> Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you tooth and >> toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama administration dropped the >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what party >> is >> actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a caveat, I >> personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think he pursues a >> policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of obfuscating the >> fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the form of the financial >> class. I disagree with this policy more than I can say but at least he >> threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes it past the rocket list >> censors and would ask out of politeness that no responses be made. Just >> my opinion, which, ain't worth much. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Mon May 18 21:11:30 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:11:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS update....... Message-ID: We are currently reviewing tonight's announcement. We will have a meeting this week to decide how we are going to proceed. As a dealer, we have sold motors to those without LEUP's with a "motor contract", which allowed folks to fly, one motor at a time. So, there is never a issue with someone flying without a LEUP . Like all of you, we are hoping that flyers will be able to buy motors without restrictions, BUT must show their card from TRA and NAR. Signing up with our frequent flyer club will help us keep track of your certification. BE sure to bring your card with you when you buy your motors. We will keep you updated........ Thanks, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Mon May 18 21:20:57 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:20:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Stupid FITS questions........... Message-ID: Hi folks, I have a few "dumb" questions about FITS........... 1. Is there anywhere in Mansfield where you can pull up and get internet access via a wireless signal? I usually stay in Waterville, but this year I am camping onsite. 2. Is there ice located nearby that can be purchase after launching times? Will ice be available onsite? Or can I con someone to pick some up for me during the weekend. 3. Do we need to reserve a site as a vendor like previous years? We will be arriving on Friday, so want to make sure we have a place to set up. 4. This may be on the web page, what time does the launch end on Monday? Thanks, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 21:24:00 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: <55caf0ba41ab933d283082958469b67d@mx1.blastzone.com> References: <2806.67.189.35.224.1242704000.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com><79CFE6249D8B4A4CBB655A6821854A3B@LaptopKrausert> <55caf0ba41ab933d283082958469b67d@mx1.blastzone.com> Message-ID: <0D5E7D18BB99426F9B80C5522C2DB01F@Mobile2> And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good rocketeers who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who acted as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a lose lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Importance: Low Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for Neville Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal to the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and who also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out of politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to RMR where you belong. And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you instead of offering to turn around and give them up. On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" wrote: > Paul, > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama >> administration dropped the >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Mon May 18 21:31:50 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 04:31:50 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: <0D5E7D18BB99426F9B80C5522C2DB01F@Mobile2> References: <2806.67.189.35.224.1242704000.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com><79CFE6249D8B4A4CBB655A6821854A3B@LaptopKrausert> <55caf0ba41ab933d283082958469b67d@mx1.blastzone.com> <0D5E7D18BB99426F9B80C5522C2DB01F@Mobile2> Message-ID: Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? Thanks EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good rocketeers > who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our > brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who acted > as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a lose > lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Importance: Low > > Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for Neville > Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the > Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political > rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal to > the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and who > also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via > legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. > > Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out of > politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to RMR > where you belong. > > And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you instead > of offering to turn around and give them up. > > On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" > wrote: > > Paul, > > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > > > > >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off > >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the > >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage > >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail > >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you > >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama > >> administration dropped > the > >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what > >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a > >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think > >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of > >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the > >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I > >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes > >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that > >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? ? Thanks http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good rocketeers > who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our > brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who acted > as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a lose > lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Importance: Low > > Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for Neville > Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the > Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political > rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal to > the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and who > also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via > legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. > > Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out of > politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to RMR > where you belong. > > And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you instead > of offering to turn around and give them up. > > On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" > wrote: > > Paul, > > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > > > > >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off > >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the > >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage > >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail > >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you > >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama > >> administration dropped > the > >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what > >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a > >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think > >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of > >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the > >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I > >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes > >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that > >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon May 18 21:35:21 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:35:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: References: <2806.67.189.35.224.1242704000.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com><79CFE6249D8B4A4CBB655A6821854A3B@LaptopKrausert><55caf0ba41ab933d283082958469b67d@mx1.blastzone.com> <0D5E7D18BB99426F9B80C5522C2DB01F@Mobile2> Message-ID: Where is the flaming ball in my statement? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com _____ From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: Scott T. Bowers; Wilkerson2; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? Thanks i'm EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good rocketeers > who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our > brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who acted > as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a lose > lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Importance: Low > > Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for Neville > Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the > Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political > rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal to > the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and who > also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via > legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. > > Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out of > politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to RMR > where you belong. > > And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you instead > of offering to turn around and give them up. > > On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" > wrote: > > Paul, > > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > > > > >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off > >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the > >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage > >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail > >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you > >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama > >> administration dropped > the > >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what > >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a > >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think > >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of > >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the > >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I > >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes > >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that > >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- Where is the flaming ball in my statement? ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: Scott T. Bowers; Wilkerson2; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? ? Thanks http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good rocketeers > who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our > brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who acted > as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a lose > lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Importance: Low > > Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for Neville > Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the > Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political > rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal to > the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and who > also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via > legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. > > Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out of > politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to RMR > where you belong. > > And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you instead > of offering to turn around and give them up. > > On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" > wrote: > > Paul, > > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > > > > >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off > >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the > >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage > >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail > >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you > >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama > >> administration dropped > the > >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what > >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a > >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think > >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of > >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the > >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I > >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes > >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that > >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bclugston1 at comcast.net Mon May 18 21:47:48 2009 From: bclugston1 at comcast.net (William Clugston) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:47:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <000001c9d82d$ae44eb50$0acec1f0$@com> Message-ID: <16276C8C-96B3-450F-95EE-09F4B2B1BAA1@comcast.net> OK all, if you want to support the hobby let's buy (and burn!) lots of AP! Bill Clugston bclugston1 at comcast.net http://www.earthskystars.net (Rocketry and Astronomy) On May 18, 2009, at 8:38 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > Eugene and all, > > Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along > with motor starters.. > > I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the > facts after I talk with him. > > WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION > LEVELS. > > Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal > for pre-orders at an additional 3%. > Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work > the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. > Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help > out and get a gift rather than > Stubbin and getting nothing. > > BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. > Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, > and more good stuff. > > Burn 'em if you got 'em, > > Bill > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > >> From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com >> To: eas0171 at gmail.com >> CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 >> >> good question >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing >> to sell >> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC >>> is not >>> an >>> explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>> destroying >>> all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my >>> license >>> with >>> rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>> >>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>> >>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>> motors >>> removed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond >>> Stoner'" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>> confirmation >>>> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>> BATFECase >>>> -It'sOver >>>> >>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>> from >>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>> >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>> >>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>> BATFE". >>>>> >>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>> lost? >>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>> the >>>>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>> from the >>>>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to >>>>> wait >>>>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was >>>>> entered, >>>>> the law changed. >>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>> could >>>>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>> during >>>>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>> >>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the >>>>> ruling for >>>>> it to take effect? What gives? >>>>> >>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>> playing it safe? >>>>> >>>>> Ray >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE >>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Scott, >>>>> >>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>> >>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>> >>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFE >>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> ] >>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>> Case >>>>> - It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> ] On >>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>> >>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>> >>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives >>>>> has >>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>>>> 16, >>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>> APCP >>>>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>>> expired >>>>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the >>>>> judgment >>>>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation >>>>> from >>>>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding >>>>> that >>>>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive >>>>> material by >>>>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >>>>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >>>>> >>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>> their >>>>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >>>>> possess) >>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>> While APCP >>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements >>>>> of >>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>> stipulate >>>>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >>>>> certification. >>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>> encourage >>>>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively >>>>> with >>>>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >>>>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they >>>>> wish to >>>>> purchase. >>>>> Ensuring >>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>> essential >>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>> overregulation by >>>>> outside agencies. >>>>> >>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>> should >>>>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>> themselves >>>>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >>>>> District Court. >>>>> >>>>> Trip Barber >>>>> NAR President >>>>> >>>>> Ken Good >>>>> TRA President >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>> >>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >>>>> DMTA1N >>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>>> (1) >>>>> Reply >>>>> (via web post) >>>>> >>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>> Start a new topic >>>>> >>>> BF9TAz >>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>> bnRwYw >>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Messages>>>> MTJkNH >>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Files>>>> JocmZy >>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >>>>> RzbGsD >>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>> Photos>>>> dHBpam >>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>> cgRzbG >>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>> Members>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>> Time!.>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12vq79phj/ >>>>> *http:/ >>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >>>>> tweek& >>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>> Sleep!.>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >>>>> stweek >>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>> other>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http:// >>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>> //grou >>>>> ps >>>>> .yahoo >>>>> .com >>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>> Change settings via the >>>>> Web>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >>>>> GsDc3R >>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change >>>>> settings >>>>> via >>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>> Digest>>>> very >>>>> :% >>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>> Traditional>>>> ange >>>>> %2 >>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>> >>>>> Recent Activity >>>>> >>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>> >>>> zk3MzU >>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >>>>> ARzdGl >>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>> >>>>> Get it all >>>>> here>>>> . >>>>> 867457 >>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=124269 >>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>> *http: >>>>> //news >>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>> >>>>> Breaking news to >>>>> >>>>> entertainment news >>>>> >>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>> >>>>> Sponsored >>>>> Search>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ >>>>> SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt >>>>> p://us >>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p >>>>> hp >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> can help increase >>>>> >>>>> your site traffic. >>>>> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>> >>>>> Mom >>>>> Power>>>> .86745 >>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>> J=12426 >>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>> *http >>>>> ://gro >>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>> >>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>> >>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon May 18 21:52:14 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:52:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] E-match? References: Message-ID: <0F49BAD4C4E847558A1449CE4714D2A2@LaptopKrausert> E-matches require a very small amount over voltage to pop them. I treat them very seriously. I've never tried. But you can pop a match with nothing more than static on you. They are used for airstarts and electronic recovery deployment. Something typical ignitors cannot do most of the time. And they are on the AFT list. Hit wiki and other web sites for the full (and better) def. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Jimerson" To: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:04 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] E-match? > So what is an e-match and why do they require a LEUP? Are they > something different than the motor igniters that I bought over the > counter at the hobby shop in Portland? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From jhadv at pacifier.com Mon May 18 21:56:17 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3565.67.189.35.224.1242708977.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> Oh. Oh. Sorry I ever mentioned it. Just trying to get a rise out of Dennis who takes this shit much less seriously than some. Good natured don't you know. Strike the former statement. I was kidnapped by aliens, a masked intruder took over my e-mail, my dog ate it, whatever. I apologize for the comment. > Send Rockets mailing list submissions to > rockets at rocketsnw.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockets-request at rocketsnw.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockets-owner at rocketsnw.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockets digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS (Scott T Bowers) > 2. Re: FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > (William Clugston) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:35:21 -0700 > From: "Scott T Bowers" > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > To: "'Bill Munds'" , "'Wilkerson2'" > , > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Where is the flaming ball in my statement? > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > _____ > > From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:32 PM > To: Scott T. Bowers; Wilkerson2; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > > Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? > > Thanks > > > > > > > > i'm > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >> To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> >> And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good >> rocketeers >> who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our >> brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who > acted >> as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a >> lose >> lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> Importance: Low >> >> Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for >> Neville >> Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the >> Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political >> rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal > to >> the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and >> who >> also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via >> legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. >> >> Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out > of >> politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to > RMR >> where you belong. >> >> And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you > instead >> of offering to turn around and give them up. >> >> On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" >> wrote: >> > Paul, >> > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM >> > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> > >> > >> >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off >> >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the >> >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage >> >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail >> >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you >> >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama >> >> administration dropped >> the >> >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what >> >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a >> >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think >> >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of >> >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the >> >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I >> >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes >> >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that >> >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > Where is the flaming ball in my statement? > ? > Scott T. Bowers > http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com > ? > ? > From: > Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] > Sent: > Monday, May 18, 2009 9:32 PM > To: > Scott T. Bowers; Wilkerson2; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: > RE: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? > ? > Thanks > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER > GOOD > Join me > ? >> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >> To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> >> And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good >> rocketeers >> who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our >> brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who >> acted >> as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a >> lose >> lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> Importance: Low >> >> Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for >> Neville >> Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the >> Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political >> rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal >> to >> the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and >> who >> also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via >> legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. >> >> Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out >> of >> politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to >> RMR >> where you belong. >> >> And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you >> instead >> of offering to turn around and give them up. >> >> On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" >> wrote: >> > Paul, >> > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM >> > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> > >> > >> >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off >> >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the >> >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage >> >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail >> >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you >> >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama >> >> administration dropped >> the >> >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what >> >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a >> >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think >> >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of >> >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the >> >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I >> >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes >> >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that >> >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:47:48 -0700 > From: William Clugston > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > To: Bill Munds > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Message-ID: <16276C8C-96B3-450F-95EE-09F4B2B1BAA1 at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > OK all, if you want to support the hobby let's buy (and burn!) lots of > AP! > > > Bill Clugston > bclugston1 at comcast.net > http://www.earthskystars.net (Rocketry and Astronomy) > > > > On May 18, 2009, at 8:38 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > >> Eugene and all, >> >> Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along >> with motor starters.. >> >> I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the >> facts after I talk with him. >> >> WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION >> LEVELS. >> >> Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal >> for pre-orders at an additional 3%. >> Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work >> the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. >> Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help >> out and get a gift rather than >> Stubbin and getting nothing. >> >> BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. >> Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, >> and more good stuff. >> >> Burn 'em if you got 'em, >> >> Bill >> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood >> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif >> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >>> From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com >>> To: eas0171 at gmail.com >>> CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >>> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >>> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 >>> >>> good question >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >>> StatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing >>> to sell >>> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >>> >>> -Eugene >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Krausert" >>> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >>> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC >>>> is not >>>> an >>>> explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>>> destroying >>>> all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my >>>> license >>>> with >>>> rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>>> >>>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>>> >>>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>>> motors >>>> removed. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Robert >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond >>>> Stoner'" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>>> confirmation >>>>> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFECase >>>>> -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>>> from >>>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>>> >>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>>> BATFE". >>>>>> >>>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>>> lost? >>>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>>> the >>>>>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>>> from the >>>>>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to >>>>>> wait >>>>>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was >>>>>> entered, >>>>>> the law changed. >>>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>>> could >>>>>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>>> during >>>>>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the >>>>>> ruling for >>>>>> it to take effect? What gives? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>>> playing it safe? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>>> BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>>> >>>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>>> BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case >>>>>> - It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> ] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>>> >>>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives >>>>>> has >>>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>>>>> 16, >>>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>>> APCP >>>>>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>>>> expired >>>>>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the >>>>>> judgment >>>>>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation >>>>>> from >>>>>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding >>>>>> that >>>>>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive >>>>>> material by >>>>>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >>>>>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>>> their >>>>>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >>>>>> possess) >>>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>>> While APCP >>>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements >>>>>> of >>>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>>> stipulate >>>>>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >>>>>> certification. >>>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>>> encourage >>>>>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively >>>>>> with >>>>>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >>>>>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they >>>>>> wish to >>>>>> purchase. >>>>>> Ensuring >>>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>>> essential >>>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>>> overregulation by >>>>>> outside agencies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>>> should >>>>>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>>> themselves >>>>>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >>>>>> District Court. >>>>>> >>>>>> Trip Barber >>>>>> NAR President >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken Good >>>>>> TRA President >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>>> >>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >>>>>> DMTA1N >>>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>>>> (1) >>>>>> Reply >>>>>> (via web post) >>>>>> >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >>>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>>> Start a new topic >>>>>> >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>>> bnRwYw >>>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Messages>>>>> MTJkNH >>>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Files>>>>> JocmZy >>>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >>>>>> RzbGsD >>>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>>> Photos>>>>> dHBpam >>>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>>> cgRzbG >>>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Members>>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>>> Time!.>>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12vq79phj/ >>>>>> *http:/ >>>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >>>>>> tweek& >>>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>>> Sleep!.>>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >>>>>> stweek >>>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>>> other>>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>> *http:// >>>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>>> //grou >>>>>> ps >>>>>> .yahoo >>>>>> .com >>>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>>> Change settings via the >>>>>> Web>>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >>>>>> GsDc3R >>>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change >>>>>> settings >>>>>> via >>>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>> Digest>>>>> very >>>>>> :% >>>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>>> Traditional>>>>> ange >>>>>> %2 >>>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >>>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Activity >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >>>>>> ARzdGl >>>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>>> >>>>>> Get it all >>>>>> here>>>>> . >>>>>> 867457 >>>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>> J=124269 >>>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>>> *http: >>>>>> //news >>>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Breaking news to >>>>>> >>>>>> entertainment news >>>>>> >>>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>>> >>>>>> Sponsored >>>>>> Search>>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt >>>>>> p://us >>>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p >>>>>> hp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> can help increase >>>>>> >>>>>> your site traffic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>>> >>>>>> Mom >>>>>> Power>>>>> .86745 >>>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>> J=12426 >>>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>> *http >>>>>> ://gro >>>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>>> >>>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 16, Issue 57 > *************************************** > > From dennys at carnitech.net Mon May 18 22:02:43 2009 From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:02:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Stupid FITS questions........... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E7B3555-3739-4D5B-A49D-494A986D02A6@mimectl> Bob 1. I don' t know about internet access. AT&T phones work real sporadically in town. If you have Verizon, that seems to work better. As far as data, I think you'll have a tough time. 2. The town store sells ice. Not sure how long they stay open, but I'm certain someone can get it for you if need be. 3. We have the first row near the track reserved for vendors. What kind of vehicles are you bringing? Truck and trailer? Shouldn't be a problem. We'll just have people move if need be as we need the vendors situated close to the flight line. 4. We'll likely launch until 1-2p ish on Monday. Just depends on how many people want to fly. -denny From: Bob Grossfeld Sent: Mon 5/18/2009 9:20 PM To: rockets northwest Subject: [RocketsNW] Stupid FITS questions........... Hi folks, I have a few "dumb" questions about FITS........... 1. Is there anywhere in Mansfield where you can pull up and get internet access via a wireless signal? I usually stay in Waterville, but this year I am camping onsite. 2. Is there ice located nearby that can be purchase after launching times? Will ice be available onsite? Or can I con someone to pick some up for me during the weekend. 3. Do we need to reserve a site as a vendor like previous years? We will be arriving on Friday, so want to make sure we have a place to set up. 4. This may be on the web page, what time does the launch end on Monday? Thanks, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Bob ? 1.? I don' t know about internet access.? AT&T phones work real sporadically in town.? If you have Verizon, that seems to work better.? As far as data, I think you'll have a tough time. ? 2.? The town store sells ice.? Not sure how long they stay open, but I'm certain someone can get it for you if need be. ? 3.? We have the first row near the track reserved for vendors.? What kind of vehicles are you bringing?? Truck and trailer?? Shouldn't be a problem.? We'll just have people move if need be as we need the vendors situated close to the flight line. ? 4.? We'll likely launch until 1-2p ish on Monday.? Just depends on how many people want to fly. ? -denny From: Bob Grossfeld Sent: Mon 5/18/2009 9:20 PM To: rockets northwest Subject: [RocketsNW] Stupid FITS questions........... Hi folks, I have a few "dumb" questions about FITS........... 1. Is there anywhere in Mansfield where you can pull up and get internet access via a wireless signal? I usually stay in Waterville, but this year I am camping onsite. 2. Is there ice located nearby that can be purchase after launching times? Will ice be available onsite? Or can I con someone to pick some up for me during the weekend. 3. Do we need to reserve a site as a vendor like previous years? We will be arriving on Friday, so want to make sure we have a place to set up. 4. This may be on the web page, what time does the launch end on Monday? Thanks, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Mon May 18 22:12:23 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:12:23 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Stupid FITS questions........... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00c501c9d840$652fae60$2f8f0b20$@net> 1. Not sure 2. You can get ice in the store in town, both block and cubes. You can stop and get some on your way in or I'm sure someone would be willing to pick some up for you. 3. As a vendor you don't need to reserve a spot, the very front row of the flight line is for the vendors. I'll be there Thursday setting up and will make sure of this. 4. On Monday things are usually wrapped up by around noon as most of the people have left for home by then. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob Grossfeld Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:21 PM To: rockets northwest Subject: [RocketsNW] Stupid FITS questions........... Hi folks, I have a few "dumb" questions about FITS........... 1. Is there anywhere in Mansfield where you can pull up and get internet access via a wireless signal? I usually stay in Waterville, but this year I am camping onsite. 2. Is there ice located nearby that can be purchase after launching times? Will ice be available onsite? Or can I con someone to pick some up for me during the weekend. 3. Do we need to reserve a site as a vendor like previous years? We will be arriving on Friday, so want to make sure we have a place to set up. 4. This may be on the web page, what time does the launch end on Monday? Thanks, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bphlat234 at comcast.net Mon May 18 22:18:55 2009 From: bphlat234 at comcast.net (Gary Harris) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:18:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Update..... INDY 500 Contest..... 4th annual In-Reply-To: <051820092024.14328.4A11C41200041207000037F822230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <051820092024.14328.4A11C41200041207000037F822230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <90AAF58F7A1F4A5F977FDC6B8E31DBF4@Garylaptop> gee, at sheridan a year or two ago Bob had a live tv going during the IRL closer when I think Scott D won the title. You might have to close your eyes too if you're dropping by to buy something. gary harris ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rocket Lost" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Update..... INDY 500 Contest..... 4th annual > You are going to make it tough on me..... > > The DVR is set to record the race, and I do NOT what to know what happens > before I get home and watch the race on Monday...... > > Tim > >>Returning this year..... >>That's right race fans, >> >>In honor of the Indy 500, we will be having our 4th annual INDY 500 >>raffle at our booth at FITS! > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are going to make it tough on me..... ? The DVR is set to record the race, and I do NOT what to know what happens before I get home and watch the race on Monday...... ? Tim ? >Returning this year..... >That's right race fans, > >In honor of the Indy 500, we will be having our 4th annual INDY 500 >raffle at our booth at FITS! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bphlat234 at comcast.net Mon May 18 22:28:58 2009 From: bphlat234 at comcast.net (Gary Harris) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:28:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair> <005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net> Message-ID: <05B8623FA8294DA59F4B3090AAA97ABD@Garylaptop> thank you Ray for some common sense. last time I go a ticket I wasn't asked for my permission. Gary Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: "W. Raymond Stoner" To: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFECase -It'sOver > NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from BATFE". > > Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they lost? > Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > judge > enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the time the > order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait for, but not > really required. At the time the judgment was entered, the law changed. > Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could be > some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during that > period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > > Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for it > to > take effect? What gives? > > Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just playing > it > safe? > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > -It'sOver > > Scott, > > Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > -It'sOver > > Pretty cool don't ya think? > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - > It'sOver > > > > ________________________________ > From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of Trip Barber > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > > > > > Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > > May 18, 2009 > > Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not > appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, > which > ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, > and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, > on > advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final > although > we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may > operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer > regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the > permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such > motors. > > Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) > and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While > APCP > rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the > "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may > be subject to these requirements. > Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > what > motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. > These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the > rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess > flyer > certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. > Ensuring > we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > element > in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside > agencies. > > Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > they > encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a > manner > inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. > > Trip Barber > NAR President > > Ken Good > TRA President > > > __._,_.___ > Messages in this topic > jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1N > jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) Reply > (via web post) > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYEc2VjA2 > Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | Start > a > new topic > k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYw > RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > Messages Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > Files BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > Photos V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG > sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > Members cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRz > bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > MARKETPLACE > I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > Time!. 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/*http:/ > /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=lastweek& > SID=GetPaid> > ________________________________ > I make $75/Hour. While I > Sleep!. 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=lastweek > &SID=75sleep> > ________________________________ > Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, > for > the world and for each > other 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http:// > groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] ps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > Change settings via the > Web TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDc3R > uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via > email: Switch delivery to Daily > Digest 20Digest> | Switch format to > Traditional 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > Visit Your Group > 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmBHN0aW1 > lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > | Unsubscribe > > Recent Activity > > Visit Your Group > 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGl > tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > Yahoo! News > > Get it all > here 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/J=124269 > 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http://news > .yahoo.com/> > > Breaking news to > > entertainment news > > Drive Traffic > > Sponsored > Search 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*http://us > .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.php> > > can help increase > > your site traffic. > > Yahoo! Groups > > Mom > Power 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/J=12426 > 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http://gro > ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > > Find wholesome recipes > > and more. Go Moms Go! > > . > > __,_._,___ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Mon May 18 22:52:34 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 05:52:34 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Message-ID: I don't moderate this list, BUT... rocketys, not politics. PLEASE! -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 08:47 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Paul, I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off the > list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the caveat of > state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage all of that is > gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail is what > Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you tooth and > toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama administration dropped the > entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what party is > actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a caveat, I > personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think he pursues a > policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of obfuscating the > fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the form of the financial > class. I disagree with this policy more than I can say but at least he > threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes it past the rocket list > censors and would ask out of politeness that no responses be made. Just > my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- I don't moderate this list, BUT... rocketys, not politics. PLEASE! -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 08:47 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Paul, I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off the > list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the caveat of > state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage all of that is > gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail is what > Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you tooth and > toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama administration dropped the > entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what party is > actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a caveat, I > personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think he pursues a > policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of obfuscating the > fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the form of the financial > class. I disagree with this policy more than I can say but at least he > threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes it past the rocket list > censors and would ask out of politeness that no responses be made. Just > my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Mon May 18 22:58:46 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 05:58:46 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Message-ID: AMEN! -----Original Message----- From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 09:31 PM To: 'Scott T. Bowers', 'Wilkerson2', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? Thanks EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good rocketeers > who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our > brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who acted > as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a lose > lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Importance: Low > > Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for Neville > Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the > Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political > rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal to > the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and who > also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via > legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. > > Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out of > politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to RMR > where you belong. > > And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you instead > of offering to turn around and give them up. > > On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" > wrote: > > Paul, > > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > > > > >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off > >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the > >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage > >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail > >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you > >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama > >> administration dropped > the > >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what > >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a > >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think > >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of > >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the > >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I > >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes > >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that > >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- AMEN! -----Original Message----- From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 09:31 PM To: 'Scott T. Bowers', 'Wilkerson2', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? Thanks EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good rocketeers > who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our > brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who acted > as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a lose > lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Importance: Low > > Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for Neville > Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the > Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political > rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal to > the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and who > also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via > legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. > > Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out of > politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to RMR > where you belong. > > And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you instead > of offering to turn around and give them up. > > On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" > wrote: > > Paul, > > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > > > > >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off > >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the > >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage > >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail > >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you > >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama > >> administration dropped > the > >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what > >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a > >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think > >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of > >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the > >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I > >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes > >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that > >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Mon May 18 23:04:45 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 06:04:45 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] E-match? Message-ID: Most e-matches use a flash powder style primer (Dark Flash is common) and a pyrogen overcoat of something like H3. Both are pretty solidly in the explosives category. And some e-matches can be friction and/or impact sensitive as well. So even with legal considerations aside, you should treat both ejection initiators and motor starters with all the care you would use with any potentially dangerous material. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 09:52 PM To: 'Bob Jimerson', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] E-match? E-matches require a very small amount over voltage to pop them. I treat them very seriously. I've never tried. But you can pop a match with nothing more than static on you. They are used for airstarts and electronic recovery deployment. Something typical ignitors cannot do most of the time. And they are on the AFT list. Hit wiki and other web sites for the full (and better) def. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Jimerson" To: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:04 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] E-match? > So what is an e-match and why do they require a LEUP? Are they > something different than the motor igniters that I bought over the > counter at the hobby shop in Portland? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Most e-matches use a flash powder style primer (Dark Flash is common)?and a pyrogen overcoat of something like H3. Both are pretty solidly in the explosives category. And some e-matches can be friction and/or impact sensitive as well. So even with legal considerations aside, you should treat both ejection initiators and motor starters with all the care you would use with any potentially dangerous material. ? ? -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 09:52 PM To: 'Bob Jimerson', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] E-match? E-matches require a very small amount over voltage to pop them. I treat them very seriously. I've never tried. But you can pop a match with nothing more than static on you. They are used for airstarts and electronic recovery deployment. Something typical ignitors cannot do most of the time. And they are on the AFT list. Hit wiki and other web sites for the full (and better) def. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Jimerson" To: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:04 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] E-match? > So what is an e-match and why do they require a LEUP? Are they > something different than the motor igniters that I bought over the > counter at the hobby shop in Portland? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue May 19 01:24:34 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 01:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] E-match? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1396b1c98b9242d1faf856814a155603.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> And to complicate things even more, some bridge wire type devices use a very thin coating on the bridge wire of an actual high explosive chemical. This provides a tightly controlled interface between the wire and next layer of pyrogen while protecting the bridge wire from corrosion by the pyrogen composition. But ultimately, "igniters" as rocketeers use the term and ematches are generally fundamentally the same design, differing mostly in size and sensitivity: Lead wires, bridge wire, stuff that ignites when the bridge wire gets hot. Specs vary greatly but as a rough idea: Some military bridge wire style detonators are all-fire at 50 ma. Common ematches usually require several hundred ma to about an amp. Motor igniters can require 5+ amps. +McG+ > Most e-matches use a flash powder style primer (Dark Flash is common)?and > a pyrogen overcoat of something like H3. Both are pretty solidly in the > explosives category. And some e-matches can be friction and/or impact > sensitive as well. So even with legal considerations aside, you should > treat both ejection initiators and motor starters with all the care you > would use with any potentially dangerous material. > ? > ? > -----Original Message----- > From: > Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] > Sent: > Monday, May 18, 2009 09:52 PM > To: > 'Bob Jimerson', rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: > Re: [RocketsNW] E-match? > E-matches require a very small amount over voltage to pop them. I treat > them very seriously. I've never tried. But you can pop a match with > nothing more than static on you. They are used for airstarts and > electronic recovery deployment. Something typical ignitors cannot do most > of the time. And they are on the AFT list. Hit wiki and other web sites > for the full (and better) def. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Jimerson" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:04 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] E-match? > So what > is an e-match and why do they require a LEUP? Are they > something > different than the motor igniters that I bought over the > counter at the > hobby shop in Portland? > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From absworld at cet.com Tue May 19 08:00:57 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:00:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <6BEDEBEAE7CA4B31840DE877C2F6F5C2@Mobile2> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <02E6D87E1B90465AAFEB504DE0AD2599@HP9925NR> <6BEDEBEAE7CA4B31840DE877C2F6F5C2@Mobile2> Message-ID: <00fe01c9d892$9d860280$d8920780$@com> I would agree that destroying records might not be a great idea. Definitely no plans to log anything new into my magazine. I'm thankful that I recently renewed my permit so should have some time to see how things shake out. Always good to let someone else test the waters (might be cold.....or deep ;-) Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:13 PM To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Robert Krausert' Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver I would assume you check them out on your inventory and list the reason as "no longer classified as explosives" Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:10 PM To: 'Robert Krausert' Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver It would be premature to destroy your records. Until March 16th, APCP was considered an explosive, and ATF may want you to retain them for dates prior to that. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:54 PM > To: Scott T Bowers; 'Terry Moore-Read'; 'W. Raymond Stoner' > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > - It'sOver > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is > not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be > destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue > my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with > motors removed. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > >I think what they were saying is although we have not received > confirmation > > from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > > > > > > Scott T. Bowers > > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- > bounces at rocketsnw.com] > > On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > > To: W. Raymond Stoner > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > > BATFECase -It'sOver > > > > Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain > > from enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > > > > On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > > > >> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >> BATFE". > >> > >> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >> lost? > >> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when > >> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective > >> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice > >> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the > >> judgment was entered, the law changed. > >> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there > >> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased > >> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >> > >> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling > >> for it to take effect? What gives? > >> > >> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >> playing it safe? > >> > >> Ray > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFE Case -It'sOver > >> > >> Scott, > >> > >> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >> > >> Dennis S Winningstad > >> 503-781-3529 > >> > >> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFE Case -It'sOver > >> > >> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> ] > >> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >> Case > >> - It'sOver > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >> ] On > >> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >> > >> May 18, 2009 > >> > >> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March > >> 16, 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification > >> of APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so > >> has expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe > >> that the judgment is considered final although we have not received > >> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the > >> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an > >> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits > >> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >> > >> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate > >> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan > >> to > >> possess) > >> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >> While APCP > >> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes > >> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of > >> flyer certification. > >> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly > >> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work > >> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket > >> motors to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate > >> with the motors they wish to purchase. > >> Ensuring > >> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an > >> essential element in our ability to retain this freedom from > >> overregulation by outside agencies. > >> > >> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA > >> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct > >> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the > >> Federal District Court. > >> > >> Trip Barber > >> NAR President > >> > >> Ken Good > >> TRA President > >> > >> > >> __._,_.___ > >> Messages in this topic > >> >> MTM > >> 1NGV1Z > >> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNn > >> SWQ > >> DMTA1N > >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1 > >> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> ) > >> Reply > >> (via web post) > >> >> Gtk > >> BF9TAz > >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1N > >> jYE > >> c2VjA2 > >> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> > >> | Start a new topic > >> >> 243 > >> BF9TAz > >> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > >> GsD > >> bnRwYw > >> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >> Messages >> 3oD > >> MTJkNH > >> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc > >> 2Vj > >> A2Z0cg > >> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >> Files >> lOD > >> JocmZy > >> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z > >> 0cg > >> RzbGsD > >> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >> Photos >> TJk > >> dHBpam > >> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA > >> 2Z0 > >> cgRzbG > >> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >> Members >> DMT > >> JkaDI4 > >> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2V > >> jA2 > >> Z0cgRz > >> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >> MARKETPLACE > >> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >> Time!. >> 573 > >> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79ph > >> j/ > >> *http:/ > >> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= > >> las > >> tweek& > >> SID=GetPaid> > >> ________________________________ > >> I make $75/Hour. While I > >> Sleep!. >> 357 > >> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID > >> =la > >> stweek > >> &SID=75sleep> > >> ________________________________ > >> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >> families, for the world and for each > >> other >> 503 > >> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke > >> / > >> *http:// > >> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >> //grou > >> ps > >> .yahoo > >> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBz > >> c > >> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >> Change settings via the > >> Web >> U4N > >> jJxBF9 > >> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >> Rzb > >> GsDc3R > >> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > >> via > >> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >> Digest >> eli > >> very > >> :% > >> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >> Traditional >> =Ch > >> ange > >> %2 > >> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >> Visit Your Group > >> >> 9TA > >> zk3MzU > >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaH > >> BmB > >> HN0aW1 > >> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >> | Unsubscribe > >> > >> Recent Activity > >> > >> Visit Your Group > >> >> 9TA > >> zk3MzU > >> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm > >> doc > >> ARzdGl > >> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >> Yahoo! News > >> > >> Get it all > >> here >> 867457 > >> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8- > >> / > >> J=124269 > >> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >> //news > >> .yahoo.com/> > >> > >> Breaking news to > >> > >> entertainment news > >> > >> Drive Traffic > >> > >> Sponsored > >> Search >> 566 > >> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/* > >> htt > >> p://us > >> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/inde > >> x.p > >> hp > >> > > >> > >> can help increase > >> > >> your site traffic. > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups > >> > >> Mom > >> Power >> 510 > >> .86745 > >> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8 > >> -/ > >> J=12426 > >> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*h > >> ttp > >> ://gro > >> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >> > >> Find wholesome recipes > >> > >> and more. Go Moms Go! > >> > >> . > >> > >> __,_._,___ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.33/2120 - Release Date: 05/18/09 06:28:00 From carl at mousetrap.com Tue May 19 08:09:58 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:09:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Old motors still certified Message-ID: A coworker of mine is coming to FITS after a long rocketry hiatus. He has some G40 motors that have been in storage for ~15 years. The G40 is currently certified by NAR, but does that certification cover such old motors? Would flying these motors comply with the NAR safety code? Thanks. - Carl -------------- next part -------------- Thanks. ?- Carl From rockets at penian.com Tue May 19 08:10:03 2009 From: rockets at penian.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Paul=20Nelson?=) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 07:10:03 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] =?iso-8859-1?q?HAVING_FUN_WITH_OUR_GOOD_FRIEND_DENNIS?= Message-ID: <20090519151003.28550.qmail@server298.com> "The Obama administration dropped the entire regulation without a fight." Keep in mind that this could mean that a legislative fix to give AFT authority to regulate motors is already being planned. Judge Walton won't be able to help us then. Your Cynic, Paul Nelson http://rocketry.penian.com/ > -------Original Message------- > From: jhadv at pacifier.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Sent: 18 May '09 19:33 > > This was my point when suggesting negotiation.??By taking APCP off the > list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the caveat of > state law or other applicable statute.??Conveyance, storage all of that is > gone.??But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail is what > Administration did this???The Bush administration fought you tooth and > toenail to restrict your liberties.??The Obama administration dropped the > entire regulation without a fight.??Kind of makes one wonder what party is > actually better in practice for personal liberty.??But a caveat, I > personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think he pursues a > policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of obfuscating the > fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the form of the financial > class.??I disagree with this policy more than I can say but at least he > threw us a bone.??I also hope that this makes it past the rocket list > censors and would ask out of politeness that no responses be made.??Just > my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ?? > From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue May 19 08:17:05 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:17:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: <20090519151003.28550.qmail@server298.com> References: <20090519151003.28550.qmail@server298.com> Message-ID: <5451F3166CAF4B388757755A2F270C7D@Mobile2> Well, Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives are within the scope of the BATFE. Rocket motors do not fit any of those anymore, so in order to get their hands on them the would have to become the BATFERM and I think that is unlikely. Also, Obama administration didn't drop anything, they lost bad and really had no grounds for appeal. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Nelson Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:10 AM To: NWR list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW]HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS "The Obama administration dropped the entire regulation without a fight." Keep in mind that this could mean that a legislative fix to give AFT authority to regulate motors is already being planned. Judge Walton won't be able to help us then. Your Cynic, Paul Nelson http://rocketry.penian.com/ > -------Original Message------- > From: jhadv at pacifier.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Sent: 18 May '09 19:33 > > This was my point when suggesting negotiation.??By taking APCP off > the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the > caveat of state law or other applicable statute.??Conveyance, storage > all of that is gone.??But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail > is what Administration did this???The Bush administration fought you > tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties.??The Obama > administration dropped the entire regulation without a fight.??Kind > of makes one wonder what party is actually better in practice for > personal liberty.??But a caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore > to the banks and I think he pursues a policy of accommodation to > everyone with the intent of obfuscating the fact that he is creating > a ruling oligarchy in the form of the financial class.??I disagree > with this policy more than I can say but at least he threw us a bone.?? > I also hope that this makes it past the rocket list censors and would > ask out of politeness that no responses be made.??Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ?? > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From raystoner99 at comcast.net Tue May 19 09:08:16 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (raystoner99 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:08:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: <1926167334.11646341242748950625.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1752823847.11649751242749296942.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I just went back and read the ruling...the judge never said that APCP wasn't an explosive...he stated that the rule making process that the BATFE used was not lawful, so the rule they made regarding APCP was vacated...there is a significant difference there. I see a couple options that the BATFE has to move APCP back to the explosive list. 1. Legislative action. Congress says its explosive, therefore it is...no arguments are really valid when a bunch of people that don't know about science make a decision, and then make it law. 2. Make the rule legal. Provide a definition (that is generally accepted) of an explosive that includes APCP...this is a tough one. Just burn rate won't work, or you start to include a lot of things that shouldn't be on the list, things like paper. So the definition must go beyond just burn rate. If they can come up with a definition that includes APCP, but excludes all these common things, then APCP is back on the list. Of course, they have to file for the rulemaking process, have a comment period, etc, prior to making the change...otherwise they get slapped again... I'm not sure if they'll do either, I certainly see the possiblity of both. If I were in their position, I just got B*tch slapped by a bunch of dorks that fly rockets (said with humor), I'd be spitting mad and want payback. Then again, maybe they'll take their slapping and go away...who knows. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "Paul Nelson" , "NWR list" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:17:05 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Well, Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives are within the scope of the BATFE. Rocket motors do not fit any of those anymore, so in order to get their hands on them the would have to become the BATFERM and I think that is unlikely. Also, Obama administration didn't drop anything, they lost bad and really had no grounds for appeal. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Nelson Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:10 AM To: NWR list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW]HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS "The Obama administration dropped the entire regulation without a fight." Keep in mind that this could mean that a legislative fix to give AFT authority to regulate motors is already being planned. Judge Walton won't be able to help us then. Your Cynic, Paul Nelson http://rocketry.penian.com/ -------------- next part -------------- I just went back and read the ruling...the judge never said that APCP wasn't an explosive...he stated that the rule making process that the BATFE used was not lawful, so the rule they made regarding APCP was vacated...there is a significant difference there. I see a couple options that the BATFE has to move APCP back to the explosive list. 1.? Legislative action.? Congress says its explosive, therefore it is...no arguments are really valid when a bunch of people that don't know about science make a decision, and then make it law. 2.? Make the rule legal.? Provide a definition (that is generally accepted) of an explosive that includes APCP...this is a tough one.? Just burn rate won't work, or you start to include a lot of things that shouldn't be on the list, things like paper.? So the definition must go beyond just burn rate.? If they can come up with a definition that includes APCP, but excludes all these common things, then APCP is back on the list.? Of course, they have to file for the rulemaking process, have a comment period, etc, prior to making the change...otherwise they get slapped again... I'm not sure if they'll do either, I certainly see the possiblity of both.? If I were in their position, I just got B*tch slapped by a bunch of dorks that fly rockets (said with humor), I'd be spitting mad and want payback. Then again, maybe they'll take their slapping and go away...who knows. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "Paul Nelson" , "NWR list" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:17:05 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Well, Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives are within the scope of the BATFE. Rocket motors do not fit any of those anymore, so in order to get their hands on them the would have to become the BATFERM and I think that is unlikely. Also, Obama administration didn't drop anything, they lost bad and really had no grounds for appeal. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com ? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Nelson Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:10 AM To: NWR list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW]HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS "The Obama administration dropped the entire regulation without a fight." Keep in mind that this could mean that a legislative fix to give AFT authority to regulate motors is already being planned. Judge Walton won't be able to help us then. Your Cynic, Paul Nelson http://rocketry.penian.com/ ?? From sb at berfield.com Tue May 19 09:10:19 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:10:19 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Message-ID: But BATFERM is a pretty good acronym, you must admit :) I know we all take this really seriously and it is of great importance to us, but I think we tend to overestimate how important it is to anyone but us. We are a very small hobby and represent a very small issue compared to a great deal of what BATF and other agencies deal with. I am not surprised they didn't appeal, and I seriously doubt any further action is going to be forthcoming from BATF, Homeland Security or the Congress -- we really just aren't that big a deal. It would be amazing to me to find out that anyone in the previous or current administrations has ever heard of this case as anything other than a line item on a checklist -- if that. The only surprise to me in this whole thing is that BATF bothered pursuing the case as long as they did -- and for that I blame simple inertia. Now back to getting ready for FITS and flying rockets. -----Original Message----- From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 08:17 AM To: ''Paul Nelson'', ''NWR list'' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Well, Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives are within the scope of theBATFE. Rocket motors do not fit any of those anymore, so in order to gettheir hands on them the would have to become the BATFERM and I think that isunlikely. Also, Obama administration didn't drop anything, they lost bad and reallyhad no grounds for appeal.Scott T. Bowerswww.scottsrockets.com -------------- next part -------------- But BATFERM is a pretty good acronym, you must admit :) I know we all take this really seriously and it is of great importance to us, but I think we tend to overestimate how important it is to anyone but us. We are a very small hobby and represent a very small issue compared to a great deal of what BATF and other agencies deal with. I am not surprised they didn't appeal, and I seriously doubt any further action is going to be forthcoming from BATF, Homeland Security or the Congress -- we really just aren't that big a deal. It would be amazing to me to find out that anyone in the previous or current administrations has ever heard of this case as anything other than a line item on a checklist -- if that. The only surprise to me in this whole thing is that BATF bothered pursuing the case as long as they did -- and for that I blame simple inertia. Now back to getting ready for FITS and flying rockets. ? -----Original Message----- From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 08:17 AM To: ''Paul Nelson'', ''NWR list'' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Well, Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives are within the scope of the BATFE. Rocket motors do not fit any of those anymore, so in order to get their hands on them the would have to become the BATFERM and I think that is unlikely. Also, Obama administration didn't drop anything, they lost bad and really had no grounds for appeal. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue May 19 09:23:27 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:23:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: <1752823847.11649751242749296942.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1926167334.11646341242748950625.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1752823847.11649751242749296942.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <0E06F9FFE78A4CE5B139520BBB6DD0AD@Mobile2> I don't know Ray. "Specifically, the defendant did not adequately explain why it came to the decision it did in light of contrary evidence in the administrative record submitted by the plaintiffs, which tended to show that APCP can burn at a rate lower than that which the defendant designated as the threshold," And..... "Court will vacate the agency's decision to classify APCP is an explosive pursuant to 18 U.S.C. ? 841(d).1" Seems that would say it is not an explosive. I can see where you could get caught up in semantics, but in order for them to go back now they would have to change their rules for what is an explosive, but then that would be arbitrary and capricious. If they did that wouldn't they land right back in court? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of raystoner99 at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:08 AM Cc: NWR list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS I just went back and read the ruling...the judge never said that APCP wasn't an explosive...he stated that the rule making process that the BATFE used was not lawful, so the rule they made regarding APCP was vacated...there is a significant difference there. I see a couple options that the BATFE has to move APCP back to the explosive list. 1. Legislative action. Congress says its explosive, therefore it is...no arguments are really valid when a bunch of people that don't know about science make a decision, and then make it law. 2. Make the rule legal. Provide a definition (that is generally accepted) of an explosive that includes APCP...this is a tough one. Just burn rate won't work, or you start to include a lot of things that shouldn't be on the list, things like paper. So the definition must go beyond just burn rate. If they can come up with a definition that includes APCP, but excludes all these common things, then APCP is back on the list. Of course, they have to file for the rulemaking process, have a comment period, etc, prior to making the change...otherwise they get slapped again... I'm not sure if they'll do either, I certainly see the possiblity of both. If I were in their position, I just got B*tch slapped by a bunch of dorks that fly rockets (said with humor), I'd be spitting mad and want payback. Then again, maybe they'll take their slapping and go away...who knows. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "Paul Nelson" , "NWR list" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:17:05 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Well, Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives are within the scope of the BATFE. Rocket motors do not fit any of those anymore, so in order to get their hands on them the would have to become the BATFERM and I think that is unlikely. Also, Obama administration didn't drop anything, they lost bad and really had no grounds for appeal. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Nelson Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:10 AM To: NWR list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW]HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS "The Obama administration dropped the entire regulation without a fight." Keep in mind that this could mean that a legislative fix to give AFT authority to regulate motors is already being planned. Judge Walton won't be able to help us then. Your Cynic, Paul Nelson http://rocketry.penian.com/ From rockets at penian.com Tue May 19 09:29:04 2009 From: rockets at penian.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Paul=20Nelson?=) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:29:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] =?iso-8859-1?q?HAVING_FUN_WITH_OUR_GOOD_FRIEND_DENNIS?= Message-ID: <20090519162904.22132.qmail@server298.com> They don't have to become BATFERM. If congress says motors are explosives to be regulated by ATF, then they are, expert witnesses and burn rates be damned. All it takes in one little paragraph inserted by Senator Schumer in a 600 page spending bill. How hard can that be? Paul Nelson >??-------Original Message------- >??From: Scott T Bowers >??Subject: RE: [RocketsNW]HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >??Sent: 19 May '09 07:17 >?? >??Well, Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives are within the scope of the >??BATFE. Rocket motors do not fit any of those anymore, so in order to get >??their hands on them the would have to become the BATFERM and I think that is >??unlikely. >?? >??Also, Obama administration didn't drop anything, they lost bad and really >??had no grounds for appeal. >?? >?? >??Scott T. Bowers >??www.scottsrockets.com >?? >?? >??-----Original Message----- >??From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >??On Behalf Of Paul Nelson >??Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:10 AM >??To: NWR list >??Subject: Re: [RocketsNW]HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >?? >?? >??"The Obama administration dropped the entire regulation without a fight." >?? >?? >??Keep in mind that this could mean that a legislative fix to give AFT >??authority to regulate motors is already being planned. Judge Walton won't be >??able to help us then. >?? >?? >??Your Cynic, >??Paul Nelson >??http://rocketry.penian.com/ >?? >?? >??>??-------Original Message------- >??>??From: jhadv at pacifier.com >??>??Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >??>??Sent: 18 May '09 19:33 >??>?? >??>??This was my point when suggesting negotiation.??By taking APCP off >??> the??list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the >??> caveat of??state law or other applicable statute.??Conveyance, storage >??> all of that is??gone.??But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail >??> is what??Administration did this???The Bush administration fought you >??> tooth and??toenail to restrict your liberties.??The Obama >??> administration dropped the??entire regulation without a fight.??Kind >??> of makes one wonder what party is??actually better in practice for >??> personal liberty.??But a caveat, I??personally think Obama is a whore >??> to the banks and I think he pursues a??policy of accommodation to >??> everyone with the intent of obfuscating the??fact that he is creating >??> a ruling oligarchy in the form of the financial??class.??I disagree >??> with this policy more than I can say but at least he??threw us a bone.?? >??> I also hope that this makes it past the rocket list??censors and would >??> ask out of politeness that no responses be made.??Just??my opinion, which, >??ain't worth much. >??>?? >??>??_______________________________________________ >??>??Rockets mailing list >??>??Rockets at rocketsnw.com >??>??http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >??>???? >??>?? >??_______________________________________________ >??Rockets mailing list >??Rockets at rocketsnw.com >??http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >???? >?? >?? From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue May 19 09:30:39 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:30:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] not ruling related... Message-ID: <4A12DEAF.9000605@hawkfeather.com> Just a reminder ;) http://maps.google.com/maps?z=14&layer=c&cbll=47.815632,-119.655643&cbp=12,16.32,,0,-0.9 Andrew. From winningstad at comcast.net Tue May 19 09:42:22 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:42:22 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: <3565.67.189.35.224.1242708977.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> References: <3565.67.189.35.224.1242708977.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> Message-ID: >> Just trying to get a rise out of Dennis who takes this shit much less seriously than some. << :D Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of jhadv at pacifier.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:56 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS Oh. Oh. Sorry I ever mentioned it. Just trying to get a rise out of Dennis who takes this shit much less seriously than some. Good natured don't you know. Strike the former statement. I was kidnapped by aliens, a masked intruder took over my e-mail, my dog ate it, whatever. I apologize for the comment. > Send Rockets mailing list submissions to > rockets at rocketsnw.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockets-request at rocketsnw.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockets-owner at rocketsnw.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockets digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS (Scott T Bowers) > 2. Re: FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > (William Clugston) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:35:21 -0700 > From: "Scott T Bowers" > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > To: "'Bill Munds'" , "'Wilkerson2'" > , > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Where is the flaming ball in my statement? > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > _____ > > From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:32 PM > To: Scott T. Bowers; Wilkerson2; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > > Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? > > Thanks > > > > > > > > i'm > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >> To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> >> And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good >> rocketeers >> who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our >> brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who > acted >> as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a >> lose >> lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> Importance: Low >> >> Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for >> Neville >> Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the >> Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political >> rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal > to >> the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and >> who >> also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via >> legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. >> >> Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out > of >> politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to > RMR >> where you belong. >> >> And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you > instead >> of offering to turn around and give them up. >> >> On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" >> wrote: >> > Paul, >> > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM >> > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> > >> > >> >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off >> >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the >> >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage >> >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail >> >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you >> >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama >> >> administration dropped >> the >> >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what >> >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a >> >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think >> >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of >> >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the >> >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I >> >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes >> >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that >> >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > Where is the flaming ball in my statement? > ? > Scott T. Bowers > http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com > ? > ? > From: > Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] > Sent: > Monday, May 18, 2009 9:32 PM > To: > Scott T. Bowers; Wilkerson2; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: > RE: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Could you all throw flaming balls at each other off-list? > ? > Thanks > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER > GOOD > Join me > ? >> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >> To: jim at jmw29221.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:24:00 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> >> And secondly, this administration did not do anything. The good >> rocketeers >> who donated, the various board members who kept the lawsuit going, our >> brilliant legal team that took the fight to them, and our members who >> acted >> as expert witnesses are the one who did this. They put the BATFE in a >> lose >> lose situation. The BATFE did not give up, they were beat. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:05 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> Importance: Low >> >> Paul, sounds like you're all for appeasement. Worked real well for >> Neville >> Chamberlain prior to the start of WWII; you should probably ask the >> Sudetenland Czechs how they feel about it. And while we're on political >> rants, don't forget about Senator DICK Schumer; a flaming yellow liberal >> to >> the core, who put on that disgusting press conference/scare tactic and >> who >> also torpedoed Senator Enzi's attempt to provide us with some relief via >> legislation. So shove that with your personal liberty party trash. >> >> Give me a break - you toss out garbage like you did and "I would ask out >> of >> politeness that no responses be made" - get over yourself and go back to >> RMR >> where you belong. >> >> And try enjoy the freedoms that others have fought to obtain for you >> instead >> of offering to turn around and give them up. >> >> On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:47:05 -0700, "Robert Krausert" >> wrote: >> > Paul, >> > I'm not going comment. Seriously not in agreement. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:33 PM >> > Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS >> > >> > >> >> This was my point when suggesting negotiation. By taking APCP off >> >> the list of regulated substances all restrictions go away with the >> >> caveat of state law or other applicable statute. Conveyance, storage >> >> all of that is gone. But the point I wanted to make in this e-mail >> >> is what Administration did this? The Bush administration fought you >> >> tooth and toenail to restrict your liberties. The Obama >> >> administration dropped >> the >> >> entire regulation without a fight. Kind of makes one wonder what >> >> party is actually better in practice for personal liberty. But a >> >> caveat, I personally think Obama is a whore to the banks and I think >> >> he pursues a policy of accommodation to everyone with the intent of >> >> obfuscating the fact that he is creating a ruling oligarchy in the >> >> form of the financial class. I disagree with this policy more than I >> >> can say but at least he threw us a bone. I also hope that this makes >> >> it past the rocket list censors and would ask out of politeness that >> >> no responses be made. Just my opinion, which, ain't worth much. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:47:48 -0700 > From: William Clugston > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > To: Bill Munds > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Message-ID: <16276C8C-96B3-450F-95EE-09F4B2B1BAA1 at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > OK all, if you want to support the hobby let's buy (and burn!) lots of > AP! > > > Bill Clugston > bclugston1 at comcast.net > http://www.earthskystars.net (Rocketry and Astronomy) > > > > On May 18, 2009, at 8:38 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > >> Eugene and all, >> >> Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along >> with motor starters.. >> >> I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the >> facts after I talk with him. >> >> WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION >> LEVELS. >> >> Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal >> for pre-orders at an additional 3%. >> Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work >> the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. >> Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help >> out and get a gift rather than >> Stubbin and getting nothing. >> >> BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. >> Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, >> and more good stuff. >> >> Burn 'em if you got 'em, >> >> Bill >> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood >> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif >> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >>> From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com >>> To: eas0171 at gmail.com >>> CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >>> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >>> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 >>> >>> good question >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> ] >>> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >>> StatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing >>> to sell >>> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >>> >>> -Eugene >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Krausert" >>> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >>> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC >>>> is not >>>> an >>>> explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>>> destroying >>>> all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my >>>> license >>>> with >>>> rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>>> >>>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>>> >>>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>>> motors >>>> removed. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Robert >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond >>>> Stoner'" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>>> confirmation >>>>> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFECase >>>>> -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>>> from >>>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>>> >>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>>> BATFE". >>>>>> >>>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>>> lost? >>>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>>> the >>>>>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>>> from the >>>>>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to >>>>>> wait >>>>>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was >>>>>> entered, >>>>>> the law changed. >>>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>>> could >>>>>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>>> during >>>>>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the >>>>>> ruling for >>>>>> it to take effect? What gives? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>>> playing it safe? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>>> BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>>> >>>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>>> BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case >>>>>> - It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> ] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>>> >>>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives >>>>>> has >>>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>>>>> 16, >>>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>>> APCP >>>>>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>>>> expired >>>>>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the >>>>>> judgment >>>>>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation >>>>>> from >>>>>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding >>>>>> that >>>>>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive >>>>>> material by >>>>>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >>>>>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>>> their >>>>>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >>>>>> possess) >>>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>>> While APCP >>>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements >>>>>> of >>>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>>> stipulate >>>>>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >>>>>> certification. >>>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>>> encourage >>>>>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively >>>>>> with >>>>>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >>>>>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they >>>>>> wish to >>>>>> purchase. >>>>>> Ensuring >>>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>>> essential >>>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>>> overregulation by >>>>>> outside agencies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>>> should >>>>>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>>> themselves >>>>>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >>>>>> District Court. >>>>>> >>>>>> Trip Barber >>>>>> NAR President >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken Good >>>>>> TRA President >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>>> >>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >>>>>> DMTA1N >>>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>>>> (1) >>>>>> Reply >>>>>> (via web post) >>>>>> >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >>>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>>> Start a new topic >>>>>> >>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >>>>>> bnRwYw >>>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Messages>>>>> MTJkNH >>>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Files>>>>> JocmZy >>>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >>>>>> RzbGsD >>>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>>> Photos>>>>> dHBpam >>>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>>> cgRzbG >>>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Members>>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>>> Time!.>>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12vq79phj/ >>>>>> *http:/ >>>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >>>>>> tweek& >>>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>>> Sleep!.>>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >>>>>> stweek >>>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>>> other>>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>> *http:// >>>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>>> //grou >>>>>> ps >>>>>> .yahoo >>>>>> .com >>>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>>> Change settings via the >>>>>> Web>>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >>>>>> GsDc3R >>>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change >>>>>> settings >>>>>> via >>>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>> Digest>>>>> very >>>>>> :% >>>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>>> Traditional>>>>> ange >>>>>> %2 >>>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >>>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Activity >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >>>>>> ARzdGl >>>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>>> >>>>>> Get it all >>>>>> here>>>>> . >>>>>> 867457 >>>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>> J=124269 >>>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>>> *http: >>>>>> //news >>>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Breaking news to >>>>>> >>>>>> entertainment news >>>>>> >>>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>>> >>>>>> Sponsored >>>>>> Search>>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt >>>>>> p://us >>>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p >>>>>> hp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> can help increase >>>>>> >>>>>> your site traffic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>>> >>>>>> Mom >>>>>> Power>>>>> .86745 >>>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>> J=12426 >>>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>> *http >>>>>> ://gro >>>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>>> >>>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 16, Issue 57 > *************************************** > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Tue May 19 09:47:26 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:47:26 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] not ruling related... Message-ID: You KNOW Google has too much free time an dmoney if they have street level views of Mansfield, WA! -----Original Message----- From: Andrew MacMillen [mailto:andrewm at hawkfeather.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 09:30 AM To: 'NorthWest Rocketry' Subject: [RocketsNW] not ruling related... Just a reminder ;)http://maps.google.com/maps?z=14&layer=c&cbll=47.815632,-119.655643&cbp=12,16.32,,0,-0.9Andrew._______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- You KNOW Google has too much free time an dmoney if they have street level views of Mansfield, WA! ? -----Original Message----- From: Andrew MacMillen [mailto:andrewm at hawkfeather.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 09:30 AM To: 'NorthWest Rocketry' Subject: [RocketsNW] not ruling related... Just a reminder ;) http://maps.google.com/maps?z=14&layer=c&cbll=47.815632,-119.655643&cbp=12,16.32,,0,-0.9 Andrew. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Tue May 19 11:17:15 2009 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:17:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS In-Reply-To: <8CBA603935E0582-16A8-1584@WEBMAIL-MY23.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Next request... I'd like to borrow a 75mm nozzle washer this Friday, just for a little while. Standard EX/AMW size. Thanks Again! Peter From sb at berfield.com Tue May 19 11:55:40 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:55:40 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS Message-ID: Dude - you really should wash your own nozzles. -----Original Message----- From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com [mailto:Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:17 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS Next request...I'd like to borrow a 75mm nozzle washer this Friday, just for a littlewhile. Standard EX/AMW size.Thanks Again!Peter_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Dude - you really should wash your own nozzles. ? -----Original Message----- From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com [mailto:Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:17 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS Next request... I'd like to borrow a 75mm nozzle washer this Friday, just for a little while. Standard EX/AMW size. Thanks Again! Peter _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue May 19 12:09:24 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:09:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds derogatory...."get away from he pad you nozzle washer!" Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:56 AM To: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS Dude - you really should wash your own nozzles. -----Original Message----- From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com [mailto:Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:17 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS Next request...I'd like to borrow a 75mm nozzle washer this Friday, just for a littlewhile. Standard EX/AMW size.Thanks Again!Peter_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From dennys at carnitech.net Tue May 19 12:24:05 2009 From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:24:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS In-Reply-To: References: <8CBA603935E0582-16A8-1584@WEBMAIL-MY23.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051091160A@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> At risk of this statement being mis-read, I'm sure we can accommodate you on the 75mm round disc with a hole in it, Pete. :) -denny -----Original Message----- From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com [mailto:Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:17 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS Next request... I'd like to borrow a 75mm nozzle washer this Friday, just for a little while. Standard EX/AMW size. Thanks Again! Peter _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Tue May 19 12:04:38 2009 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:04:38 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But they're just so icky, especially after sitting around for long... "Scott Berfield" To 05/19/2009 11:55 Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com, AM rockets at rocketsnw.com cc Subject Re: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS Dude - you really should wash your own nozzles. -----Original Message----- From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com [mailto:Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com] Sent:. Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:17 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 75mm nozzle washer for FITS Next request... I'd like to borrow a 75mm nozzle washer this Friday, just for a little while. Standard EX/AMW size. Thanks Again! Peter _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Tue May 19 12:53:37 2009 From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:53:37 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Message-ID: Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) -------------- next part -------------- Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets!? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew?? The special projects page is quite blank.? I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.? I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) From melamy at earthlink.net Tue May 19 13:01:57 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Message-ID: <11173327.1242763317593.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I have a custom 38mm minimum diameter guy call BOO, a BSD Horizon that spent a year in Scott Binder's tree, an extended PML IO, and a PerfectFlite timer module that I designed for end of motor electronic ejection - not sure what rocket that is going in. I have a I245G waiting for me from Bill Munds because I want to go GREEN... best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com >Sent: May 19, 2009 3:53 PM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! > >Hello all, >Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets!? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew?? The special projects page is quite blank.? I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.? I didn't feel they were special enough though. >How about the rest of you? >Lou >************** >An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Tue May 19 13:21:49 2009 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (bwhitemarsh at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:21:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: <11173327.1242763317593.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <823051302.9297021242764509520.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I'll be hoping to certify level 2 with my Binder Design Velociraptor on a K270W.?? Should be my first trip to the mile high club.?? Also plan to put my Giant Leap Crossbow up on a J415W, then maybe the K550.?? Two kits designed by local guys, so that's kinda cool.?? I have a little PML Tiny Pterydactyl that should be fun on something in the H class.?? Also built the new Leading Edge Rocketry Alien for the night launch.?? Wife called it "cute" but I'll probably put it up anyway, even though rockets should never be "cute."?? What is she thinking? :-) Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: melamy at earthlink.net To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:01:57 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! I have a custom 38mm minimum diameter guy call BOO, a BSD Horizon that spent a year in Scott Binder's tree, an extended PML IO, and a PerfectFlite timer module that I designed for end of motor electronic ejection - not sure what rocket that is going in. I have a I245G waiting for me from Bill Munds because I want to go GREEN... best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com >Sent: May 19, 2009 3:53 PM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! > >Hello all, >Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets!?? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew??? The special projects page is quite blank.?? I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.?? I didn't feel they were special enough though. >How about the rest of you? >Lou >************** >An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ???? -------------- next part -------------- I'll be hoping to certify level 2 with my Binder Design Velociraptor on a K270W.? Should be my first trip to the mile high club.? Also plan to put my Giant Leap Crossbow up on a J415W, then maybe the K550.? Two kits designed by local guys, so that's kinda cool.? I have a little PML Tiny Pterydactyl that should be fun on something in the H class.? Also built the new Leading Edge Rocketry Alien for the night launch.? Wife called it "cute" but I'll probably put it up anyway, even though rockets should never be "cute."? What is she thinking? :-) ? Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: melamy at earthlink.net To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:01:57 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! I have a custom 38mm minimum diameter guy call BOO, a BSD Horizon that spent a year in Scott Binder's tree, an extended PML IO, and a PerfectFlite timer module that I designed for end of motor electronic ejection - not sure what rocket that is going in. I have a I245G waiting for me from Bill Munds because I want to go GREEN... best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com >Sent: May 19, 2009 3:53 PM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! > >Hello all, >Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets!? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew?? The special projects page is quite blank.? I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.? I didn't feel they were special enough though. >How about the rest of you? >Lou >************** >An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From dennys at carnitech.net Tue May 19 13:23:44 2009 From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:23:44 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE200510911636@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> Not special, but here you go: - Scratch 4" min diameter flying on a research 75mm (L900 ish) - Scratch 6" (my L3 rocket) on an M1419 - Scratch (almost) full scale Arcas on a K270 (7+ sec. burn, baby!) - Nike Smoke with PRM on an L850 Maybe 1 or 2 more if I have time... -denny -----Original Message----- From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:54 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir =http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62 & bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) From kent.newman at comcast.net Tue May 19 13:38:08 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:38:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001b01c9d8c1$b8dda130$2a98e390$@newman@comcast.net> Well, heck, I have a project built in 1999 that I'm going to try to get into the air on Friday. It was a cert bird for me and was always a pretty good flier. Replaced a cracked piece of airframe and threw a temporary coat of paint on it for this weekend (I'll spend some time later and do it right). It's a scaled down Arcon flying on a Quicksilver mix and, then again, on Grizzly propellant. Maybe something else - who knows? Kent -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:54 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Tue May 19 13:24:06 2009 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:24:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: FITS? When is that again? This year it's all about the kids, at least that's what I keep telling myself. Both kids have new, scratch-built 4" birds awaiting their 1st flights. Tessa will be flying her new all fiberglass bird that needs to earn it's paint (as she puts it) on a selection of research loads from H thru K. Nate will be flying a 4" based on a PR fincan I found laying around here, on a selection of research loads from H thru J. Me? One main flight on a AlumaFlame M, then, time remaining, whatever motors we have left will be thrown into a couple of pyramids. That's Friday. The rest of the weekend will be spent relaxing. - Peter From carl at mousetrap.com Tue May 19 13:53:23 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:53:23 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll be flying my trusty, ugly L2 bird on a field-scorching K1000 Skidmark and my relatively new PR Gizmo, with the sweet paint job, on a J315R. I'll also be flying some models with the kids. Weather forecasts for Mansfield this weekend are still looking good! Wahoo! - Carl On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:53 PM, wrote: > Hello all, > Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to > rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special > projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research > motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were > special enough though. > How about the rest of you? > Lou > ************** > An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ( > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62 > ) > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- Weather forecasts for Mansfield this weekend are still looking good! Wahoo! ?- Carl On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:53 PM, < mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com IBELCHLOUD at aol.com > wrote: Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets!? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew?? The special projects page is quite blank.? I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.? I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ( http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62 http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62 ) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From melamy at earthlink.net Tue May 19 14:10:36 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Message-ID: <22661325.1242767437145.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> "oh, how I love the smell of burnt unregulated APCP in the morning..." regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: Carl Hamilton >Sent: May 19, 2009 4:53 PM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! > >Weather forecasts for Mansfield this weekend are still looking good! Wahoo! >?- Carl From raystoner99 at comcast.net Tue May 19 14:13:27 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (raystoner99 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:13:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1904652256.11827091242767607918.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Fresh Paint (my L3 bird) on a K-387 research motor NeoStar (3" diameter PML kit, unknown which one) on a J-253 research motor Charm on some kind of commercial motor, pby a white lightning! I can hear the ghost of Alex in my head...I miss him. Models too... Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:53:23 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! I'll be flying my trusty, ugly L2 bird on a field-scorching K1000 Skidmark and my relatively new PR Gizmo, with the sweet paint job, on a J315R. I'll also be flying some models with the kids. Weather forecasts for Mansfield this weekend are still looking good! Wahoo! - Carl On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:53 PM, wrote: > Hello all, > Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to > rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special > projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research > motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were > special enough though. > How about the rest of you? > Lou > ************** > An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ( > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62 > ) > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Fresh Paint (my L3 bird) on a K-387 research motor NeoStar (3" diameter PML kit, unknown which one) on a J-253 research motor Charm on some kind of commercial motor, pby a white lightning!? I can hear the ghost of Alex in my head...I miss him. Models too... Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:53:23 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! I'll be flying my trusty, ugly L2 bird on a field-scorching K1000 Skidmark and my relatively new PR Gizmo, with the sweet paint job, on a J315R. I'll also be flying some models with the kids. Weather forecasts for Mansfield this weekend are still looking good! Wahoo! - Carl On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:53 PM, wrote: > Hello all, > Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to > rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special > projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research > motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were > special enough though. > How about the rest of you? > Lou > ************** > An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ( > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62 > ) > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Tue May 19 14:18:31 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:18:31 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE200510911636@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> References: , <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE200510911636@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990DEFC2@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> Just a few things this weekend: Friday Stirling5grain 75mm PHP Wildman5grain 54mm PHP Saturday Red's Level 2 Cert Flight!K510 JamaicaMeCrazyL952 W Competitor 5L1060 GG PantherPawsM2500 T Sunday StirlingK2045 VMAX Competitor 5L1300 R ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Denny Smith [dennys at carnitech.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:23 PM To: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Not special, but here you go: - Scratch 4" min diameter flying on a research 75mm (L900 ish) - Scratch 6" (my L3 rocket) on an M1419 - Scratch (almost) full scale Arcas on a K270 (7+ sec. burn, baby!) - Nike Smoke with PRM on an L850 Maybe 1 or 2 more if I have time... -denny -----Original Message----- From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:54 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir =http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62 & bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Tue May 19 14:30:18 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:30:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Specail Projects (FITS Flights...imagine that!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1496940423.10795861242768618877.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hi all.?? I wanted to clarify the special projects page.?? It doesn't need to be ginormous L3 project or something new and revolutionary to be on the page.?? If it's special to you and you wanted to share with everyone then by all means send Denny or I a picture or two and some words about why you're excited to fly it and we'll stick it up there.?? Any cert flight should definitely be on the page.?? Any research bird should be up there.?? Any model rocket??being flown by the kids should be up there.??Any newly minted bird with still drying paint should be up there. This thread contains a bunch of great examples??so don't be shy and get those pictures to us! Mike and Denny ----- Original Message ----- From: IBELCHLOUD @ aol .com To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:53:37 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [ RocketsNW ] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ( http ://pr. atwola .com/ promoclk /100126575x1221823248x1201398651/ aol ? redir = http :// www . freecreditreport .com/pm/default. aspx ? sc =668072& hmpgID =62& bcd =MayExcfooter51609NO62) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets@ rocketsnw .com http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets -------------- next part -------------- Hi all.? I wanted to clarify the special projects page.? It doesn't need to be ginormous L3 project or something new and revolutionary to be on the page.? If it's special to you and you wanted to share with everyone then by all means send Denny or I a picture or two and some words about why you're excited to fly it and we'll stick it up there.? Any cert flight should definitely be on the page.? Any research bird should be up there.? Any model rocket?being flown by the kids should be up there.?Any newly minted bird with still drying paint should be up there. This thread contains a bunch of great examples?so don't be shy and get those pictures to us! ? ? Mike and Denny ----- Original Message ----- From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:53:37 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Tue May 19 14:34:17 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:34:17 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Message-ID: Mike Wyvel, Michael Dennis, Dave Randall and myself are flying the U4EA. 22 Foot tall, 13" diameter, 125lb (+), big beast. Going up on Friday on an N2700 built by Brad and Denny and 4 smallish sparkys for show. Assuming all goes well, we'll fly it again on Saturday, but with all commercial motors. Personal rockets pretty low key this year. Competitor 4" on a K570. 5" Fatman on a J180. the fabulous FITS rocket from last year, this time on a K185. Plus a couple of 29mm guys including the Heavenly Hobbies Washigei camera rocket. -----Original Message----- From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all,Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though.How about the rest of you?Lou**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) -------------- next part -------------- Mike Wyvel, Michael Dennis, Dave Randall and myself are flying the U4EA. 22 Foot tall, 13" diameter, 125lb (+), big beast. Going up on Friday on an N2700 built by Brad and Denny and 4 smallish sparkys for show. Assuming all goes well, we'll fly it again on Saturday, but with all commercial motors. Personal rockets pretty low key this year. Competitor 4" on a K570. 5" Fatman on a J180. the fabulous FITS rocket from last year, this time on a K185. Plus a couple of 29mm guys including the Heavenly Hobbies Washigei camera rocket. ? -----Original Message----- From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com [mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:53 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) From dmrandall at gmail.com Tue May 19 14:39:28 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 14:39:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990DEFC2@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE200510911636@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990DEFC2@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905191439q4e1273ddi932682a711bc4867@mail.gmail.com> Big group project on Friday and Saturday: "U4EA" - 22' rocket on an N + 4 J cluster Then... Excel Plus Plus on M1297 stage to K185 Little Dog Dual deploy for the "I Timed" contest Competitor 3 on something sparky and a "Get the LED Out" night flyer on two H redlines. Dave From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue May 19 14:39:19 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 14:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS In-Reply-To: <1752823847.11649751242749296942.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.m ail.comcast.net> References: <1752823847.11649751242749296942.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1b1cd3ec9e4314c2f98a805de6bda7d0.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> ON-LIST REPLY because even the list admin has to admit it's rocket-relevant on this mostly OT thread Starting back at the basics that I was discussing online fifteen years ago: Burning rate, specifically the "rate of linear regression" is only relevant here in the context of combustion in the absence of a continuous supply of ambient air. There are general entries on ATF's List of Explosives that can be easily used to classify any mixture of fuel and oxidizer capable of sufficiently rapid combustion when confined as a low explosive. The best available definition of "sufficiently rapid combustion" is found in DoT's pipe bomb test even though ATF is not bound by this definition. APCP has consistently failed to meet this definition. From a standpoint of common sense physical properties APCP should therefore not be classed as a low explosive. While specific to the classification of APCP, the court victory does also provide some indication of a sense of what ought and ought not be considered low explosive for purposes of ATF regulation. But it is a narrow ruling. Just because APCP is not currently legally an explosive in no manner form or fashion means that ATF cannot view, as one example, sugar propellant as a low explosive even though it too may fail the DoT pipe bomb test. The APCP ruling is at best only weakly relevant to other propellants. The judge did NOT say that ATF's procedure for classifying all explosives was invalid, although there is an unwritten implication of this. For ATF to be able to validly include APCP as a low explosive again they will need to completely rethink and redo their entire classification process for everything on the list of explosives. From ATF's miserable performance on technical matters in the court proceedings I have no confidence the agency has the ability to formulate such new definitions and procedures in a workable way. And since such an undertaking would require a large sum of money, in these times it's doubtful if either Congress or the administration would consider it a worthwhile endeavor. Congress OTOH has never shown much inclination to be bound by either common sense or physical reality. If Congress passes a law stating that water is dry, then you'd better not go around acting as if water is wet. At least not when cops or informants are watching. ;-) Thus, I think it likely that the ruling will be left to stand or that new regulation will come from Congress(or perhaps by executive order). Which one really depends on whether ATF and others in D.C. view this ruling as a minor nuisance or a camel's nose under the tent. My personal take on this is that the Obama administration is much less likely than the Bush administration was to view the court ruling as a threat. But we cannot rule out 'dark-of-the-moon' actions by individuals in Congress. So keep a vigilant eye and meanwhile enjoy the renewed easy access to consumer APCP! +McG+ > I just went back and read the ruling...the judge never said that APCP > wasn't an explosive...he stated that the rule making process that the > BATFE used was not lawful, so the rule they made regarding APCP was > vacated...there is a significant difference there. > I see a couple options that the BATFE has to move APCP back to the > explosive list. > 1.? Legislative action.? Congress says its explosive, therefore it is...no > arguments are really valid when a bunch of people that don't know about > science make a decision, and then make it law. > 2.? Make the rule legal.? Provide a definition (that is generally > accepted) of an explosive that includes APCP...this is a tough one.? Just > burn rate won't work, or you start to include a lot of things that > shouldn't be on the list, things like paper.? So the definition must go > beyond just burn rate.? If they can come up with a definition that > includes APCP, but excludes all these common things, then APCP is back on > the list.? Of course, they have to file for the rulemaking process, have a > comment period, etc, prior to making the change...otherwise they get > slapped again... > I'm not sure if they'll do either, I certainly see the possiblity of > both.? If I were in their position, I just got B*tch slapped by a bunch of > dorks that fly rockets (said with humor), I'd be spitting mad and want > payback. > Then again, maybe they'll take their slapping and go away...who knows. > Ray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott T Bowers" > To: "Paul Nelson" , "NWR list" > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:17:05 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > Well, Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives are within the scope of > the > BATFE. Rocket motors do not fit any of those anymore, so in order to get > their hands on them the would have to become the BATFERM and I think that > is > unlikely. > Also, Obama administration didn't drop anything, they lost bad and really > had no grounds for appeal. > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > ? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Paul Nelson > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:10 AM > To: NWR list > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW]HAVING FUN WITH OUR GOOD FRIEND DENNIS > > "The Obama administration dropped the entire regulation without a fight." > > Keep in mind that this could mean that a legislative fix to give AFT > authority to regulate motors is already being planned. Judge Walton won't > be > able to help us then. > Your Cynic, > Paul Nelson > http://rocketry.penian.com/ > ?? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Tue May 19 14:59:16 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 14:59:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Message-ID: I flying my PML Endeavour on a Estes A8-3, so I don't have to leave the booth......... Bob >Hello all, > >Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to >rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special >projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K >research motor in >Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough >though. > >How about the rest of you? > >Lou > > >************** >An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy >Steps! >(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& >bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From carl20320 at msn.com Tue May 19 15:01:15 2009 From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:01:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40905191439q4e1273ddi932682a711bc4867@mail.gmail.com> References: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE200510911636@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990DEFC2@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> <6bc920e40905191439q4e1273ddi932682a711bc4867@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I am planning on a first flight of my 7.75X upscale Estes Alpha III on an L850. It might not quite have all the paint finished but I'm working darn near around the clock (avg. 3.5 hrs sleep/night) trying to get it there. Flying the 3X upscale Estes Alpha III in the H-K Upscale competition. The California Kid on some J motor (Either a J350 or J420) and perhaps in the I Timed Recovery contest. The Deltie Thunder and miscellaneous other models with Ivan. -------------- next part -------------- I am planning on a first flight of my 7.75X upscale Estes Alpha III on an L850.? It might not quite have all the paint finished but I'm working darn near around the clock (avg. 3.5 hrs sleep/night) trying to get it there. ? Flying?the 3X upscale Estes Alpha III in the H-K Upscale competition. ? The California Kid on some J motor (Either a?J350 or J420) and perhaps in the I Timed Recovery contest. ? The Deltie Thunder and miscellaneous other models with Ivan. From absworld at cet.com Tue May 19 15:28:34 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:28:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <024f01c9d8d1$25353be0$6f9fb3a0$@com> L3 bird (4" airframe) on a 75mm research L-581. 38mm minimum diameter on a research I-222 (back-up commercial load = AT J825R). L2 bird (2.5" airframe) on an AT J350. 54mm minimum diameter on an AMW J357. DEE-lite - 24mm minimum diameter 3-stage D12-0 to E9-4 to E9-8. HTV - 29mm minimum diameter on an AT H180. Been prepping for over a week and still not sure I'm going to be ready (actually I'm closer to sure that I won't be ready ;-) Current panic factor = 3. Bob Y -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:54 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 06:21:00 From angela at wrightholdings.com Tue May 19 15:33:45 2009 From: angela at wrightholdings.com (Angela Innes) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 22:33:45 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <216599507FBC3445A7D7C0DC267527FB121B6E67@BL2PRD0102MB005.prod.exchangelabs.com> Yep I am going for my Level II with the Extreme Wildman on a K! :) Woot! Cant wait. Red -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:54 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Tue May 19 15:38:58 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:38:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01b401c9d8d2$9a3ed2b0$cebc7810$@net> On Friday I plan to fly Skeeter Eater Beater (12.5" diameter mosquito) on an N1600 SOS load and my 54 mm Go Bucks III on a Malamute K500. Saturday and Sunday will have Go Bucks III going on a J480 and an I600 in the I timed duration contest. I also plan to fly some smaller mosquitoes on J loads for the upscale contest. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:54 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) From bar0051 at homenetnw.net Tue May 19 16:51:56 2009 From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:51:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! References: Message-ID: I plan on flying my DeeDee 3 on a J825R and will attempt a 3 motor cluster in my Executioner Mark 3 with 3 E18W motors. If thing go well, I may fly a K in my ExelPlus. Bryon Schopp ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:53 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! > Hello all, > > Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to > rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The > special > projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research > motor in > Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special > enough > though. > > How about the rest of you? > > Lou > > > ************** > An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& > bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bar0051 at homenetnw.net Tue May 19 17:09:39 2009 From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:09:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop> <90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com> Message-ID: <3421664DC6844C239037086711535EFE@MEDIONDeskTop> Per WAC 296-52-63005 http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/Rules/explosives/HTML/52-b.htm#WAC296-52-63005 PURCHASER'S LICENSE WAC 296-52-63005 Responsibility to obtain a purchaser' license. Any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or public agency wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents must have a valid purchaser's license or permit issued by the department and a valid license issued by the ATF. Note that you still need a LEUP even though the ATF no longer regulates APCP :) Bryon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Moore-Read" To: "Bryon Schopp" Cc: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Eugene Samsonov'" ; Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. > > > On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > >> I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but >> as I >> read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still required. >> I am >> not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. >> >> Bryon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott T Bowers" >> To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: >> [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their manufacturers >>> as >>> we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] >>> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >>> sell >>> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >>> >>> -Eugene >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Krausert" >>> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >>>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re- issue >>>> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>>> >>>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>>> >>>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>>> motors removed. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Robert >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>>> confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >>>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>>> >>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>>> BATFE". >>>>>> >>>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>>> lost? >>>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>>> playing it safe? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>>> >>>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case >>>>>> - It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> ] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>>> >>>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >>>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>>>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that >>>>>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>>> motors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>>>> to >>>>>> possess) >>>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>>> While APCP >>>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>>>> flyer certification. >>>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors >>>>>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the >>>>>> motors they wish to purchase. >>>>>> Ensuring >>>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >>>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >>>>>> outside agencies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>>> >>>>>> Trip Barber >>>>>> NAR President >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken Good >>>>>> TRA President >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>>> >>>>> TM >>>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>>>>> WQ >>>>>> DMTA1N >>>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >>>>>> Reply >>>>>> (via web post) >>>>>> >>>>> tk >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>>>>> YE >>>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>>> Start a new topic >>>>>> >>>>> 43 >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>>>>> sD >>>>>> bnRwYw >>>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Messages>>>>> oD >>>>>> MTJkNH >>>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>>> Vj >>>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Files>>>>> OD >>>>>> JocmZy >>>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>>> cg >>>>>> RzbGsD >>>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>>> Photos>>>>> Jk >>>>>> dHBpam >>>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0 >>>>>> cgRzbG >>>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Members>>>>> MT >>>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>>> A2 >>>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>>> Time!.>>>>> 73 >>>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ SIG=12vq79phj >>>>>> / >>>>>> *http:/ >>>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>>>>> as >>>>>> tweek& >>>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>>> Sleep!.>>>>> 57 >>>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>>> la >>>>>> stweek >>>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>>> other>>>>> 03 >>>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>> *http:// >>>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>>> //grou >>>>>> ps >>>>>> .yahoo >>>>>> .com /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>>> Change settings via the >>>>>> Web>>>>> 4N >>>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>>>>> zb >>>>>> GsDc3R >>>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>>>> via >>>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>> Digest>>>>> li >>>>>> very >>>>>> :% >>>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>>> Traditional>>>>> Ch >>>>>> ange >>>>>> %2 >>>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>>>>> mB >>>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Activity >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>>>>> oc >>>>>> ARzdGl >>>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>>> >>>>>> Get it all >>>>>> here>>>>> . >>>>>> 867457 >>>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>> J=124269 >>>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>>> *http: >>>>>> //news >>>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Breaking news to >>>>>> >>>>>> entertainment news >>>>>> >>>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>>> >>>>>> Sponsored >>>>>> Search>>>>> 66 >>>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>>> tt >>>>>> p://us >>>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>>>>> .p >>>>>> hp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> can help increase >>>>>> >>>>>> your site traffic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>>> >>>>>> Mom >>>>>> Power>>>>> 10 >>>>>> .86745 >>>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>>> / >>>>>> J=12426 >>>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ *ht >>>>>> tp >>>>>> ://gro >>>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>>> >>>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue May 19 17:16:41 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:16:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <3421664DC6844C239037086711535EFE@MEDIONDeskTop> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop> <90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com> <3421664DC6844C239037086711535EFE@MEDIONDeskTop> Message-ID: But no one is purchasing explosives. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: Bryon Schopp [mailto:bar0051 at homenetnw.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:10 PM To: Terry Moore-Read Cc: Scott T Bowers; 'Eugene Samsonov'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver Per WAC 296-52-63005 http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/Rules/explosives/HTML/52-b.htm#WAC296-52-63005 PURCHASER'S LICENSE WAC 296-52-63005 Responsibility to obtain a purchaser' license. Any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or public agency wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents must have a valid purchaser's license or permit issued by the department and a valid license issued by the ATF. Note that you still need a LEUP even though the ATF no longer regulates APCP :) Bryon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Moore-Read" To: "Bryon Schopp" Cc: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Eugene Samsonov'" ; Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. > > > On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > >> I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but >> as I >> read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still required. >> I am >> not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. >> >> Bryon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott T Bowers" >> To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: >> [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their manufacturers >>> as >>> we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] >>> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >>> sell >>> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >>> >>> -Eugene >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Krausert" >>> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >>>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re- issue >>>> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>>> >>>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>>> >>>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>>> motors removed. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Robert >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>>> confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >>>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>>> >>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>>> BATFE". >>>>>> >>>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>>> lost? >>>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>>> playing it safe? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>>> >>>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case >>>>>> - It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> ] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>>> >>>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >>>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>>>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that >>>>>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>>> motors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>>>> to >>>>>> possess) >>>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>>> While APCP >>>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>>>> flyer certification. >>>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors >>>>>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the >>>>>> motors they wish to purchase. >>>>>> Ensuring >>>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >>>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >>>>>> outside agencies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>>> >>>>>> Trip Barber >>>>>> NAR President >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken Good >>>>>> TRA President >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>>> >>>>> TM >>>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>>>>> WQ >>>>>> DMTA1N >>>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >>>>>> Reply >>>>>> (via web post) >>>>>> >>>>> tk >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>>>>> YE >>>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>>> Start a new topic >>>>>> >>>>> 43 >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>>>>> sD >>>>>> bnRwYw >>>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Messages>>>>> oD >>>>>> MTJkNH >>>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>>> Vj >>>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Files>>>>> OD >>>>>> JocmZy >>>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>>> cg >>>>>> RzbGsD >>>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>>> Photos>>>>> Jk >>>>>> dHBpam >>>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0 >>>>>> cgRzbG >>>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Members>>>>> MT >>>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>>> A2 >>>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>>> Time!.>>>>> 73 >>>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ SIG=12vq79phj >>>>>> / >>>>>> *http:/ >>>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>>>>> as >>>>>> tweek& >>>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>>> Sleep!.>>>>> 57 >>>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>>> la >>>>>> stweek >>>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>>> other>>>>> 03 >>>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>> *http:// >>>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>>> //grou >>>>>> ps >>>>>> .yahoo >>>>>> .com /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>>> Change settings via the >>>>>> Web>>>>> 4N >>>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>>>>> zb >>>>>> GsDc3R >>>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>>>> via >>>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>> Digest>>>>> li >>>>>> very >>>>>> :% >>>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>>> Traditional>>>>> Ch >>>>>> ange >>>>>> %2 >>>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>>>>> mB >>>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Activity >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>>>>> oc >>>>>> ARzdGl >>>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>>> >>>>>> Get it all >>>>>> here>>>>> . >>>>>> 867457 >>>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>> J=124269 >>>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>>> *http: >>>>>> //news >>>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Breaking news to >>>>>> >>>>>> entertainment news >>>>>> >>>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>>> >>>>>> Sponsored >>>>>> Search>>>>> 66 >>>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>>> tt >>>>>> p://us >>>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>>>>> .p >>>>>> hp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> can help increase >>>>>> >>>>>> your site traffic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>>> >>>>>> Mom >>>>>> Power>>>>> 10 >>>>>> .86745 >>>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>>> / >>>>>> J=12426 >>>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ *ht >>>>>> tp >>>>>> ://gro >>>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>>> >>>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From robert.krausert at intel.com Tue May 19 17:17:52 2009 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:17:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver In-Reply-To: <3421664DC6844C239037086711535EFE@MEDIONDeskTop> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop> <90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com> <3421664DC6844C239037086711535EFE@MEDIONDeskTop> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E38FB6DCC@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Bryon, "...wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents..." Since the judge ruled that our motors are not in those categories... Are they sure a leup is required? I'm not rocking the boat here. Just that the classification AFT made is now invalid, then those two terms no longer apply to APCP. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bryon Schopp Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:10 PM To: Terry Moore-Read Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver Per WAC 296-52-63005 http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/Rules/explosives/HTML/52-b.htm#WAC296-52-63005 PURCHASER'S LICENSE WAC 296-52-63005 Responsibility to obtain a purchaser' license. Any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or public agency wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents must have a valid purchaser's license or permit issued by the department and a valid license issued by the ATF. Note that you still need a LEUP even though the ATF no longer regulates APCP :) Bryon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Moore-Read" To: "Bryon Schopp" Cc: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Eugene Samsonov'" ; Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. > > > On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > >> I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but >> as I >> read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still required. >> I am >> not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. >> >> Bryon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott T Bowers" >> To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: >> [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their manufacturers >>> as >>> we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] >>> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >>> sell >>> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >>> >>> -Eugene >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Krausert" >>> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >>>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re- issue >>>> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>>> >>>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>>> >>>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>>> motors removed. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Robert >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>>> confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >>>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>>> >>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>>> BATFE". >>>>>> >>>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>>> lost? >>>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>>> playing it safe? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>>> >>>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case >>>>>> - It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> ] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>>> >>>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >>>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>>>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that >>>>>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>>> motors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>>>> to >>>>>> possess) >>>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>>> While APCP >>>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>>>> flyer certification. >>>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors >>>>>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the >>>>>> motors they wish to purchase. >>>>>> Ensuring >>>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >>>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >>>>>> outside agencies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>>> >>>>>> Trip Barber >>>>>> NAR President >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken Good >>>>>> TRA President >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>>> >>>>> TM >>>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>>>>> WQ >>>>>> DMTA1N >>>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >>>>>> Reply >>>>>> (via web post) >>>>>> >>>>> tk >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>>>>> YE >>>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>>> Start a new topic >>>>>> >>>>> 43 >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>>>>> sD >>>>>> bnRwYw >>>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Messages>>>>> oD >>>>>> MTJkNH >>>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>>> Vj >>>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Files>>>>> OD >>>>>> JocmZy >>>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>>> cg >>>>>> RzbGsD >>>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>>> Photos>>>>> Jk >>>>>> dHBpam >>>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0 >>>>>> cgRzbG >>>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Members>>>>> MT >>>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>>> A2 >>>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>>> Time!.>>>>> 73 >>>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ SIG=12vq79phj >>>>>> / >>>>>> *http:/ >>>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>>>>> as >>>>>> tweek& >>>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>>> Sleep!.>>>>> 57 >>>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>>> la >>>>>> stweek >>>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>>> other>>>>> 03 >>>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>> *http:// >>>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>>> //grou >>>>>> ps >>>>>> .yahoo >>>>>> .com /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>>> Change settings via the >>>>>> Web>>>>> 4N >>>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>>>>> zb >>>>>> GsDc3R >>>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>>>> via >>>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>> Digest>>>>> li >>>>>> very >>>>>> :% >>>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>>> Traditional>>>>> Ch >>>>>> ange >>>>>> %2 >>>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>>>>> mB >>>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Activity >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>>>>> oc >>>>>> ARzdGl >>>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>>> >>>>>> Get it all >>>>>> here>>>>> . >>>>>> 867457 >>>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>> J=124269 >>>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>>> *http: >>>>>> //news >>>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Breaking news to >>>>>> >>>>>> entertainment news >>>>>> >>>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>>> >>>>>> Sponsored >>>>>> Search>>>>> 66 >>>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>>> tt >>>>>> p://us >>>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>>>>> .p >>>>>> hp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> can help increase >>>>>> >>>>>> your site traffic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>>> >>>>>> Mom >>>>>> Power>>>>> 10 >>>>>> .86745 >>>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>>> / >>>>>> J=12426 >>>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ *ht >>>>>> tp >>>>>> ://gro >>>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>>> >>>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bar0051 at homenetnw.net Tue May 19 17:23:56 2009 From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:23:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase-It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv><6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop><90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com> <3421664DC6844C239037086711535EFE@MEDIONDeskTop> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E38FB6DCC@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: L&I does not use the BATFE list. Per WAC 296-60130 Explosive means: All material classified as Division 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, or 1.6 explosives by U.S. DOT. APCP is Division 1.3 The court ruling was against the BATFE, not Washington State Dept of Labor & Indistries. I wish it were as maintaining a state license is a much bigger headace than BATFE was. Bryon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Krausert, Robert" To: "Bryon Schopp" ; "Terry Moore-Read" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:17 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Bryon, "...wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents..." Since the judge ruled that our motors are not in those categories... Are they sure a leup is required? I'm not rocking the boat here. Just that the classification AFT made is now invalid, then those two terms no longer apply to APCP. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bryon Schopp Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:10 PM To: Terry Moore-Read Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver Per WAC 296-52-63005 http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/Rules/explosives/HTML/52-b.htm#WAC296-52-63005 PURCHASER'S LICENSE WAC 296-52-63005 Responsibility to obtain a purchaser' license. Any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or public agency wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents must have a valid purchaser's license or permit issued by the department and a valid license issued by the ATF. Note that you still need a LEUP even though the ATF no longer regulates APCP :) Bryon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Moore-Read" To: "Bryon Schopp" Cc: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Eugene Samsonov'" ; Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. > > > On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > >> I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but >> as I >> read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still required. >> I am >> not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. >> >> Bryon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott T Bowers" >> To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: >> [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their manufacturers >>> as >>> we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] >>> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >>> sell >>> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >>> >>> -Eugene >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Krausert" >>> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >>>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re- issue >>>> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>>> >>>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>>> >>>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>>> motors removed. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Robert >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>>> confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >>>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>>> >>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>>> BATFE". >>>>>> >>>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>>> lost? >>>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>>> playing it safe? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>>> >>>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case >>>>>> - It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> ] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>>> >>>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >>>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>>>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that >>>>>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>>> motors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>>>> to >>>>>> possess) >>>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>>> While APCP >>>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>>>> flyer certification. >>>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors >>>>>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the >>>>>> motors they wish to purchase. >>>>>> Ensuring >>>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >>>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >>>>>> outside agencies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>>> >>>>>> Trip Barber >>>>>> NAR President >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken Good >>>>>> TRA President >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>>> >>>>> TM >>>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>>>>> WQ >>>>>> DMTA1N >>>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >>>>>> Reply >>>>>> (via web post) >>>>>> >>>>> tk >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>>>>> YE >>>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>>> Start a new topic >>>>>> >>>>> 43 >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>>>>> sD >>>>>> bnRwYw >>>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Messages>>>>> oD >>>>>> MTJkNH >>>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>>> Vj >>>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Files>>>>> OD >>>>>> JocmZy >>>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>>> cg >>>>>> RzbGsD >>>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>>> Photos>>>>> Jk >>>>>> dHBpam >>>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0 >>>>>> cgRzbG >>>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Members>>>>> MT >>>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>>> A2 >>>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>>> Time!.>>>>> 73 >>>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ SIG=12vq79phj >>>>>> / >>>>>> *http:/ >>>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>>>>> as >>>>>> tweek& >>>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>>> Sleep!.>>>>> 57 >>>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>>> la >>>>>> stweek >>>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>>> other>>>>> 03 >>>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>> *http:// >>>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>>> //grou >>>>>> ps >>>>>> .yahoo >>>>>> .com /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>>> Change settings via the >>>>>> Web>>>>> 4N >>>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>>>>> zb >>>>>> GsDc3R >>>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>>>> via >>>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>> Digest>>>>> li >>>>>> very >>>>>> :% >>>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>>> Traditional>>>>> Ch >>>>>> ange >>>>>> %2 >>>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>>>>> mB >>>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Activity >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>>>>> oc >>>>>> ARzdGl >>>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>>> >>>>>> Get it all >>>>>> here>>>>> . >>>>>> 867457 >>>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>> J=124269 >>>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>>> *http: >>>>>> //news >>>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Breaking news to >>>>>> >>>>>> entertainment news >>>>>> >>>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>>> >>>>>> Sponsored >>>>>> Search>>>>> 66 >>>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>>> tt >>>>>> p://us >>>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>>>>> .p >>>>>> hp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> can help increase >>>>>> >>>>>> your site traffic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>>> >>>>>> Mom >>>>>> Power>>>>> 10 >>>>>> .86745 >>>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>>> / >>>>>> J=12426 >>>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ *ht >>>>>> tp >>>>>> ://gro >>>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>>> >>>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bar0051 at homenetnw.net Tue May 19 17:26:20 2009 From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:26:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase-It'sOver References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv><6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop><90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com> <3421664DC6844C239037086711535EFE@MEDIONDeskTop> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E38FB6DCC@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <14FA27648F274359BBF75EB504F1277B@MEDIONDeskTop> Oh, the comment about still needing a LEUP was not to be taken seriously but a strict reading of state regs would indicate that :) Bryon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Krausert, Robert" To: "Bryon Schopp" ; "Terry Moore-Read" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:17 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Bryon, "...wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents..." Since the judge ruled that our motors are not in those categories... Are they sure a leup is required? I'm not rocking the boat here. Just that the classification AFT made is now invalid, then those two terms no longer apply to APCP. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bryon Schopp Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:10 PM To: Terry Moore-Read Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver Per WAC 296-52-63005 http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/Rules/explosives/HTML/52-b.htm#WAC296-52-63005 PURCHASER'S LICENSE WAC 296-52-63005 Responsibility to obtain a purchaser' license. Any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or public agency wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents must have a valid purchaser's license or permit issued by the department and a valid license issued by the ATF. Note that you still need a LEUP even though the ATF no longer regulates APCP :) Bryon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Moore-Read" To: "Bryon Schopp" Cc: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Eugene Samsonov'" ; Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. > > > On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > >> I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but >> as I >> read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still required. >> I am >> not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. >> >> Bryon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott T Bowers" >> To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: >> [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >>> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their manufacturers >>> as >>> we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] >>> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >>> sell >>> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >>> >>> -Eugene >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Krausert" >>> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >>> -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >>>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re- issue >>>> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>>> >>>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>>> >>>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>>> motors removed. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Robert >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>>> >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>>> confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >>>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>>> >>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>>> BATFE". >>>>>> >>>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>>> lost? >>>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>>> playing it safe? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott, >>>>>> >>>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>>> >>>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>>> >>>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>> Case >>>>>> - It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> ] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>>> >>>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >>>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>>>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that >>>>>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>>> motors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>>>> to >>>>>> possess) >>>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>>> While APCP >>>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>>>> flyer certification. >>>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors >>>>>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the >>>>>> motors they wish to purchase. >>>>>> Ensuring >>>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >>>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >>>>>> outside agencies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>>> >>>>>> Trip Barber >>>>>> NAR President >>>>>> >>>>>> Ken Good >>>>>> TRA President >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>>> >>>>> TM >>>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>>>>> WQ >>>>>> DMTA1N >>>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >>>>>> Reply >>>>>> (via web post) >>>>>> >>>>> tk >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>>>>> YE >>>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>>> Start a new topic >>>>>> >>>>> 43 >>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>>>>> sD >>>>>> bnRwYw >>>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Messages>>>>> oD >>>>>> MTJkNH >>>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>>> Vj >>>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Files>>>>> OD >>>>>> JocmZy >>>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>>> cg >>>>>> RzbGsD >>>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>>> Photos>>>>> Jk >>>>>> dHBpam >>>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>>> Z0 >>>>>> cgRzbG >>>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>> Members>>>>> MT >>>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>>> A2 >>>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>>> Time!.>>>>> 73 >>>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ SIG=12vq79phj >>>>>> / >>>>>> *http:/ >>>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>>>>> as >>>>>> tweek& >>>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>>> Sleep!.>>>>> 57 >>>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>>> la >>>>>> stweek >>>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>>> other>>>>> 03 >>>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>> *http:// >>>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>>> //grou >>>>>> ps >>>>>> .yahoo >>>>>> .com /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>>> Change settings via the >>>>>> Web>>>>> 4N >>>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>>>>> zb >>>>>> GsDc3R >>>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>>>> via >>>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>> Digest>>>>> li >>>>>> very >>>>>> :% >>>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>>> Traditional>>>>> Ch >>>>>> ange >>>>>> %2 >>>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>>>>> mB >>>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>>> >>>>>> Recent Activity >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>> >>>>> TA >>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>>>>> oc >>>>>> ARzdGl >>>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>>> >>>>>> Get it all >>>>>> here>>>>> . >>>>>> 867457 >>>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>> J=124269 >>>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>>> *http: >>>>>> //news >>>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Breaking news to >>>>>> >>>>>> entertainment news >>>>>> >>>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>>> >>>>>> Sponsored >>>>>> Search>>>>> 66 >>>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>>> tt >>>>>> p://us >>>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>>>>> .p >>>>>> hp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> can help increase >>>>>> >>>>>> your site traffic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>>> >>>>>> Mom >>>>>> Power>>>>> 10 >>>>>> .86745 >>>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>>> / >>>>>> J=12426 >>>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ *ht >>>>>> tp >>>>>> ://gro >>>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>> >>>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>>> >>>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Tue May 19 17:27:23 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 00:27:23 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] State of Washington L & I requirements Message-ID: I have received a few calls about what L & I-State of Washington was planning to do with their regs on APCP rocket propellant. I called Mason Reiter (360.902.5569, Reit235 at LNI.wa.gov) and he said their office has no plans to change the law. All is as it is in the RED BOOK in it's latest edition. All regs are the same until the WA legislature eliminates the code section regarding APCP rocket motors (1.3 and 1.4 designated explosives). Shipments from Aerotech I just received are all in the 1.4 classification Some sections affected: WAC 296-52-69020, note#4 under Storage facilities WAC 296-52-60130 Low Explosives Part A page 12 denotes 1.2 and 1.3 explosives by U.S.DOT (49 CFR Part 173) WAC 296-52-60130 Definitions of Explosive Classes 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 ,1.5 classified by U.S. DOT WAC 296-52-62045 Dealers record keeping WAC 296-52-63005 Purchaser's License requirements Just a few but I'm sure after further search more will be found. What we all might get together at the next WAC meeting and discuss state regs and how best to go about removing our propellant from the state regs. I have contacted Carl and Kent about a starting place. I'm waiting for word from them how they suggest we go about it. your mileage may vary Bill @ PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- I have received a few calls about what L & I-State of Washington was planning to do with their regs on APCP rocket propellant. ? I called Mason Reiter (360.902.5569, mailto:Reit235 at LNI.wa.gov Reit235 at LNI.wa.gov ) and he said their office has no plans to change the law.? All is as it is in the RED BOOK in it's latest edition. ? All regs are the same until the WA legislature eliminates the code section regarding APCP rocket motors (1.3 and 1.4 designated explosives). Shipments from Aerotech I just received are all in the 1.4 classification Some sections affected: WAC 296-52-69020, note#4 under Storage facilities WAC 296-52-60130 Low Explosives Part A page 12 denotes 1.2 and 1.3 explosives by U.S.DOT (49 CFR Part 173) WAC 296-52-60130 Definitions of Explosive Classes 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 ,1.5 classified by U.S. DOT WAC 296-52-62045 Dealers record keeping WAC 296-52-63005 Purchaser's License requirements Just a few but I'm sure after further search more will be found. ? What we all might get together at the next WAC meeting and discuss state regs and how best to go about removing our propellant from the state regs. I have contacted Carl and Kent about a starting place.? I'm waiting for word from them how they suggest we go about it. ? ? your mileage may vary Bill @ PSP http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From sb at berfield.com Tue May 19 17:33:32 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 00:33:32 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Message-ID: You go girl! -----Original Message----- From: Angela Innes [mailto:angela at wrightholdings.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 03:33 PM To: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Yep I am going for my Level II with the Extreme Wildman on a K! :) Woot! Cant wait.Red-----Original Message-----From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of IBELCHLOUD at aol.comSent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:54 PMTo: rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that!Hello all,Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though.How about the rest of you?Lou**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62)_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- You go girl! ? -----Original Message----- From: Angela Innes [mailto:angela at wrightholdings.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 03:33 PM To: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Yep I am going for my Level II with the Extreme Wildman on a K! :) Woot! Cant wait. Red -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:54 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou ************** An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Tue May 19 17:36:06 2009 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:36:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] .eng file for new CTI motors??? Message-ID: <006f01c9d8e2$f77b6f00$e6724d00$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Does anyone have or seen the location of .eng files (for Rocksim) for the new CTI skidmarks? Specifically I'm looking for the: 683J250-15A Skidmark It is not on their website yet. Many, many thanks in advance! Michael -------------- next part -------------- Does anyone have or seen the location of .eng files (for Rocksim) for the new CTI skidmarks? Specifically I???m looking for the: 683J250-15A Skidmark ? It is not on their website yet??? ? Many, many thanks in advance! ? Michael From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue May 19 17:58:47 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:58:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] .eng file for new CTI motors??? In-Reply-To: <006f01c9d8e2$f77b6f00$e6724d00$@Dennis42@comcast.net> References: <006f01c9d8e2$f77b6f00$e6724d00$@Dennis42@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A1355C7.3070107@hawkfeather.com> Not on thrustcurve.org either. Email Anthony, he's usually very good about responding to emails. Andrew. Michael Dennis wrote: > Does anyone have or seen the location of .eng files (for Rocksim) for the new CTI skidmarks? Specifically I???m looking for the: > 683J250-15A Skidmark > > It is not on their website yet??? > > Many, many thanks in advance! > > Michael > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lennyb at telus.net Tue May 19 18:14:23 2009 From: lennyb at telus.net (Len Bryan) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:14:23 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] .eng file for new CTI motors??? In-Reply-To: <4A1355C7.3070107@hawkfeather.com> References: <006f01c9d8e2$f77b6f00$e6724d00$@Dennis42@comcast.net> <4A1355C7.3070107@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <1BEAF7B72D7947E98E86CE1A171E19ED@LBRYANT61> I read an email from Tom Raithby recently (He is the Chairman of the CAR motor testing committee) He stated that he is working on them and will have them available soon. That recent run of motor tests left him a little backlogged. Len Bryan CAR 620L3 TRA 10220 L2 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen Sent: May 19, 2009 5:59 PM To: Michael Dennis Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] .eng file for new CTI motors??? Not on thrustcurve.org either. Email Anthony, he's usually very good about responding to emails. Andrew. Michael Dennis wrote: > Does anyone have or seen the location of .eng files (for Rocksim) for the new CTI skidmarks? Specifically I???m looking for the: > 683J250-15A Skidmark > > It is not on their website yet??? > > Many, many thanks in advance! > > Michael > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From terry at mooreread.com Tue May 19 18:33:42 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:33:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase-It'sOver In-Reply-To: <14FA27648F274359BBF75EB504F1277B@MEDIONDeskTop> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv><6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop><90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com> <3421664DC6844C239037086711535EFE@MEDIONDeskTop> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E38FB6DCC@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <14FA27648F274359BBF75EB504F1277B@MEDIONDeskTop> Message-ID: I was wondering .... I was about to argue that it's likely impossible to get one for an unregulated material :-) On May 19, 2009, at 5:26 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > Oh, the comment about still needing a LEUP was not to be taken > seriously but a strict reading of state regs would indicate that :) > > Bryon > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Krausert, Robert" > > To: "Bryon Schopp" ; "Terry Moore-Read" > > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:17 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase- > It'sOver > > > Bryon, > "...wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents..." > > Since the judge ruled that our motors are not in those categories... > Are they sure a leup is required? I'm not rocking the boat here. > Just that the classification AFT made is now invalid, then those two > terms no longer apply to APCP. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > ] On Behalf Of Bryon Schopp > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:10 PM > To: Terry Moore-Read > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > Per WAC 296-52-63005 > http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/Rules/explosives/HTML/52-b.htm#WAC296-52-63005 > PURCHASER'S LICENSE > > WAC 296-52-63005 Responsibility to obtain a purchaser' license. > > Any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or public agency wanting > to > purchase explosives or blasting agents must have a valid purchaser's > license > or permit issued by the department and a valid license issued by the > ATF. > > Note that you still need a LEUP even though the ATF no longer > regulates APCP > :) > > Bryon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Moore-Read" > To: "Bryon Schopp" > Cc: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Eugene Samsonov'" > ; > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:05 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: > [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > >> I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. >> >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: >> >>> I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is >>> dead but >>> as I >>> read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still >>> required. >>> I am >>> not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. >>> >>> Bryon >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>> To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: >>> [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their >>>> manufacturers >>>> as >>>> we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] >>>> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] >>>> JointStatementonBATFECase >>>> -It'sOver >>>> >>>> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS >>>> willing to >>>> sell >>>> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >>>> >>>> -Eugene >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Robert Krausert" >>>> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore- >>>> Read'" >>>> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>> > >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >>>> StatementonBATFECase >>>> -It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that >>>>> ACPC is >>>>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I >>>>> will be >>>>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to >>>>> re- issue >>>>> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the >>>>> LEUP >>>>> >>>>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>>>> >>>>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>>>> motors removed. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Robert >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>>>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond >>>>> Stoner'" >>>>> >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>>>> confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed >>>>>> freely. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to >>>>>> refrain from >>>>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>>>> BATFE". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> lost? >>>>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and >>>>>>> effective >>>>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a >>>>>>> nice >>>>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors >>>>>>> purchased >>>>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the >>>>>>> ruling >>>>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> playing it safe? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ray >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>>>>> on BATFE >>>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scott, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>>>>> on BATFE >>>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>>> Case >>>>>>> - It'sOver >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> ] On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's >>>>>>> Over >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>>>> >>>>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & >>>>>>> Explosives has >>>>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of >>>>>>> March 16, >>>>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>>>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do >>>>>>> so has >>>>>>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate >>>>>>> under the >>>>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated >>>>>>> as an >>>>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>>>> motors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess >>>>>>> (or plan >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> possess) >>>>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by >>>>>>> BATFE. >>>>>>> While APCP >>>>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the >>>>>>> requirements of >>>>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their >>>>>>> level of >>>>>>> flyer certification. >>>>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>>>>>> motors >>>>>>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate >>>>>>> with the >>>>>>> motors they wish to purchase. >>>>>>> Ensuring >>>>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>>>> essential >>>>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from >>>>>>> overregulation by >>>>>>> outside agencies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel >>>>>>> conduct >>>>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Trip Barber >>>>>>> NAR President >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ken Good >>>>>>> TRA President >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>>>> >>>>>> TM >>>>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>>>>>> WQ >>>>>>> DMTA1N >>>>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2 >>>>>>> > (1) >>>>>>> Reply >>>>>>> (via web post) >>>>>>> >>>>>> tk >>>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>>>>>> YE >>>>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? >>>>>>> act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >>>>>>> Start a new topic >>>>>>> >>>>>> 43 >>>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>>>>>> sD >>>>>>> bnRwYw >>>>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>>> Messages>>>>>> oD >>>>>>> MTJkNH >>>>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>>>> Vj >>>>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>>> Files>>>>>> OD >>>>>>> JocmZy >>>>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>>>> cg >>>>>>> RzbGsD >>>>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>>>> Photos>>>>>> Jk >>>>>>> dHBpam >>>>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>>>> Z0 >>>>>>> cgRzbG >>>>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>>> Members>>>>>> MT >>>>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>>>> A2 >>>>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>>>> Time!.>>>>>> 73 >>>>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/ >>>>>>> L=/ >>>>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>>>> SIG=12vq79phj >>>>>>> / >>>>>>> *http:/ >>>>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> tweek& >>>>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>>>> Sleep!.>>>>>> 57 >>>>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/ >>>>>>> L=/ >>>>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>>>> la >>>>>>> stweek >>>>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>>>> other>>>>>> 03 >>>>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>>> *http:// >>>>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>>>> //grou >>>>>>> ps >>>>>>> .yahoo >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> /;_ylc >>>>>>> =X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>>>> Change settings via the >>>>>>> Web>>>>>> 4N >>>>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>>>>>> zb >>>>>>> GsDc3R >>>>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change >>>>>>> settings >>>>>>> via >>>>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>>> Digest>>>>>> li >>>>>>> very >>>>>>> :% >>>>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>>>> Traditional>>>>>> Ch >>>>>>> ange >>>>>>> %2 >>>>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>>> >>>>>> TA >>>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>>>>>> mB >>>>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Recent Activity >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>>> >>>>>> TA >>>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>>>>>> oc >>>>>>> ARzdGl >>>>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Get it all >>>>>>> here>>>>>> . >>>>>>> 867457 >>>>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>>> J=124269 >>>>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>>>> *http: >>>>>>> //news >>>>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Breaking news to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> entertainment news >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sponsored >>>>>>> Search>>>>>> 66 >>>>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ >>>>>>> SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>>>> tt >>>>>>> p://us >>>>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>>>>>> .p >>>>>>> hp >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> can help increase >>>>>>> >>>>>>> your site traffic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mom >>>>>>> Power>>>>>> 10 >>>>>>> .86745 >>>>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>>>> / >>>>>>> J=12426 >>>>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/ >>>>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ *ht >>>>>>> tp >>>>>>> ://gro >>>>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From terry at mooreread.com Tue May 19 18:43:24 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:43:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] State of Washington L & I requirements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The red book argument is pretty week - I can't claim I don't have to follow any new state laws because they're not in the printed and bound RCW in the law library at work. The judge's action legally removed APCP from any federal regulations regardless of what the most recent CFR says. On May 19, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > I have received a few calls about what L & I-State of Washington was > planning to do with their regs on APCP rocket propellant. > > I called Mason Reiter (360.902.5569, mailto:Reit235 at LNI.wa.gov Reit235 at LNI.wa.gov > ) and he said their office has no plans to change the law. All is > as it is in the RED BOOK in it's latest edition. > > All regs are the same until the WA legislature eliminates the code > section regarding APCP rocket motors (1.3 and 1.4 designated > explosives). > Shipments from Aerotech I just received are all in the 1.4 > classification > Some sections affected: > WAC 296-52-69020, note#4 under Storage facilities > WAC 296-52-60130 Low Explosives Part A page 12 denotes 1.2 and 1.3 > explosives by U.S.DOT (49 CFR Part 173) > WAC 296-52-60130 Definitions of Explosive Classes 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, > 1.4 ,1.5 classified by U.S. DOT > WAC 296-52-62045 Dealers record keeping > WAC 296-52-63005 Purchaser's License requirements > Just a few but I'm sure after further search more will be found. > > What we all might get together at the next WAC meeting and discuss > state regs and how best to go about removing our propellant from the > state regs. > I have contacted Carl and Kent about a starting place. I'm waiting > for word from them how they suggest we go about it. > > > your mileage may vary > Bill @ PSP > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rmoscoe at msn.com Tue May 19 18:46:07 2009 From: rmoscoe at msn.com (Gwen Moscoe) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:46:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington State implications for ATF ruling In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2><1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv><6CDACB6D922248EE8E19C65973ABF63B@MEDIONDeskTop><90904C3C-29E6-4D06-9EBB-78F6253FA348@mooreread.com><3421664DC6844C239037086711535EFE@MEDIONDeskTop><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E38FB6DCC@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: L&I more expensive? Certainly. Bigger headache? I've always found the ATF paperwork to be more extensive with all their diagrams and detailed questions on storage. I'm wondering if WA L&I will require an ATF LEUP in Washington State simply based on their own requirements. I'm sensing uncertainty right now. Oregonians rejoice for not having APCP classified down there... ~Gwen -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bryon Schopp" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:23 PM To: "Krausert, Robert" ; "Terry Moore-Read" Cc: Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase-It'sOver> L&I does not use the BATFE list. > Per WAC 296-60130 Explosive means: > All material classified as Division 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, or 1.6 > explosives by U.S. DOT. > APCP is Division 1.3 > The court ruling was against the BATFE, not Washington State Dept of Labor > & > Indistries. I wish it were as maintaining a state license is a much > bigger > headace than BATFE was. > > Bryon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Krausert, Robert" > To: "Bryon Schopp" ; "Terry Moore-Read" > > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:17 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: > [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > > Bryon, > "...wanting to purchase explosives or blasting agents..." > > Since the judge ruled that our motors are not in those categories... Are > they sure a leup is required? I'm not rocking the boat here. Just that the > classification AFT made is now invalid, then those two terms no longer > apply > to APCP. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bryon Schopp > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:10 PM > To: Terry Moore-Read > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: > [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > Per WAC 296-52-63005 > http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/Rules/explosives/HTML/52-b.htm#WAC296-52-63005 > PURCHASER'S LICENSE > > WAC 296-52-63005 Responsibility to obtain a purchaser' license. > > Any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or public agency wanting to > purchase explosives or blasting agents must have a valid purchaser's > license > or permit issued by the department and a valid license issued by the ATF. > > Note that you still need a LEUP even though the ATF no longer regulates > APCP > :) > > Bryon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Moore-Read" > To: "Bryon Schopp" > Cc: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Eugene Samsonov'" > ; > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:05 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: > [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > >>I thought they just licensed storage rather than purchases. >> >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: >> >>> I would think from the joint statement that the LEUP issue is dead but >>> as I >>> read the regs, a Purchaser's license from the state is still required. >>> I am >>> not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. >>> >>> Bryon >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>> To: "'Eugene Samsonov'" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: >>> [NAR_Sections]JointStatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >>> >>> >>>> I am betting they are getting guidance on this from their >>>> manufacturers >>>> as >>>> we speak. Give them a little time, they will let us know. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] >>>> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] JointStatementonBATFECase >>>> -It'sOver >>>> >>>> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >>>> sell >>>> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >>>> >>>> -Eugene >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Robert Krausert" >>>> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >>>> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >>>> -It'sOver >>>> >>>> >>>>> Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >>>>> not an explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >>>>> destroying all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re- >>>>> issue >>>>> my license with rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >>>>> >>>>> October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >>>>> >>>>> We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >>>>> motors removed. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Robert >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Scott T Bowers" >>>>> To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >>>>> >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >>>>> onBATFECase -It'sOver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I think what they were saying is although we have not received >>>>>> confirmation from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >>>>>> To: W. Raymond Stoner >>>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>>> BATFECase -It'sOver >>>>>> >>>>>> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain >>>>>> from >>>>>> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >>>>>>> BATFE". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >>>>>>> lost? >>>>>>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when >>>>>>> the judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective >>>>>>> from the time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice >>>>>>> thing to wait for, but not really required. At the time the >>>>>>> judgment was entered, the law changed. >>>>>>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there >>>>>>> could be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased >>>>>>> during that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling >>>>>>> for it to take effect? What gives? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >>>>>>> playing it safe? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ray >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >>>>>>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >>>>>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>>>> BATFE >>>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scott, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dennis S Winningstad >>>>>>> 503-781-3529 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >>>>>>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >>>>>>> BATFE >>>>>>> Case -It'sOver >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >>>>>>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >>>>>>> Case >>>>>>> - It'sOver >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> ] On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >>>>>>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >>>>>>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >>>>>>> >>>>>>> May 18, 2009 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >>>>>>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March >>>>>>> 16, >>>>>>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of >>>>>>> APCP as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has >>>>>>> expired as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that >>>>>>> the judgment is considered final although we have not received >>>>>>> confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the >>>>>>> understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an >>>>>>> explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the permits >>>>>>> formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such >>>>>>> motors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate >>>>>>> their individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> possess) >>>>>>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >>>>>>> While APCP >>>>>>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >>>>>>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >>>>>>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >>>>>>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes >>>>>>> stipulate what motors they may possess, depending on their level of >>>>>>> flyer certification. >>>>>>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly >>>>>>> encourage vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work >>>>>>> cooperatively with the rocketry community to only sell rocket >>>>>>> motors >>>>>>> to customers who possess flyer certifications commensurate with the >>>>>>> motors they wish to purchase. >>>>>>> Ensuring >>>>>>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an >>>>>>> essential >>>>>>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> outside agencies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA >>>>>>> should they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct >>>>>>> themselves in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the >>>>>>> Federal District Court. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Trip Barber >>>>>>> NAR President >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ken Good >>>>>>> TRA President >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __._,_.___ >>>>>>> Messages in this topic >>>>>>> >>>>>> TM >>>>>>> 1NGV1Z >>>>>>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnS >>>>>>> WQ >>>>>>> DMTA1N >>>>>>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> >>>>>>> (1) >>>>>>> Reply >>>>>>> (via web post) >>>>>>> >>>>>> tk >>>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1Nj >>>>>>> YE >>>>>>> c2VjA2 >>>>>>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2? act=reply&messageNum=10566> >>>>>>> | >>>>>>> Start a new topic >>>>>>> >>>>>> 43 >>>>>>> BF9TAz >>>>>>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbG >>>>>>> sD >>>>>>> bnRwYw >>>>>>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>>> Messages>>>>>> oD >>>>>>> MTJkNH >>>>>>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2 >>>>>>> Vj >>>>>>> A2Z0cg >>>>>>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>>> Files>>>>>> OD >>>>>>> JocmZy >>>>>>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >>>>>>> cg >>>>>>> RzbGsD >>>>>>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >>>>>>> Photos>>>>>> Jk >>>>>>> dHBpam >>>>>>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >>>>>>> Z0 >>>>>>> cgRzbG >>>>>>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >>>>>>> Members>>>>>> MT >>>>>>> JkaDI4 >>>>>>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >>>>>>> A2 >>>>>>> Z0cgRz >>>>>>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>>> MARKETPLACE >>>>>>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >>>>>>> Time!.>>>>>> 73 >>>>>>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >>>>>>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/ >>>>>>> SIG=12vq79phj >>>>>>> / >>>>>>> *http:/ >>>>>>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=l >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> tweek& >>>>>>> SID=GetPaid> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> I make $75/Hour. While I >>>>>>> Sleep!.>>>>>> 57 >>>>>>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >>>>>>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >>>>>>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >>>>>>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID= >>>>>>> la >>>>>>> stweek >>>>>>> &SID=75sleep> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >>>>>>> families, for the world and for each >>>>>>> other>>>>>> 03 >>>>>>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >>>>>>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/ >>>>>>> SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>>> *http:// >>>>>>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ >>>>>>> ma_grp_160.gif]>>>>>> //grou >>>>>>> ps >>>>>>> .yahoo >>>>>>> .com >>>>>>> /;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >>>>>>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >>>>>>> Change settings via the >>>>>>> Web>>>>>> 4N >>>>>>> jJxBF9 >>>>>>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgR >>>>>>> zb >>>>>>> GsDc3R >>>>>>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >>>>>>> via >>>>>>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >>>>>>> Digest>>>>>> li >>>>>>> very >>>>>>> :% >>>>>>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >>>>>>> Traditional>>>>>> Ch >>>>>>> ange >>>>>>> %2 >>>>>>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >>>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>>> >>>>>> TA >>>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHB >>>>>>> mB >>>>>>> HN0aW1 >>>>>>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >>>>>>> | Unsubscribe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Recent Activity >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit Your Group >>>>>>> >>>>>> TA >>>>>>> zk3MzU >>>>>>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmd >>>>>>> oc >>>>>>> ARzdGl >>>>>>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >>>>>>> Yahoo! News >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Get it all >>>>>>> here>>>>>> . >>>>>>> 867457 >>>>>>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >>>>>>> J=124269 >>>>>>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/ >>>>>>> *http: >>>>>>> //news >>>>>>> .yahoo.com/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Breaking news to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> entertainment news >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Drive Traffic >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sponsored >>>>>>> Search>>>>>> 66 >>>>>>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >>>>>>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/ >>>>>>> SIG=12jnci1fd/*h >>>>>>> tt >>>>>>> p://us >>>>>>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index >>>>>>> .p >>>>>>> hp >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> can help increase >>>>>>> >>>>>>> your site traffic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mom >>>>>>> Power>>>>>> 10 >>>>>>> .86745 >>>>>>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >>>>>>> B=uw_eDUPDhF8- >>>>>>> / >>>>>>> J=12426 >>>>>>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >>>>>>> *ht >>>>>>> tp >>>>>>> ://gro >>>>>>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Find wholesome recipes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and more. Go Moms Go! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __,_._,___ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From dennys at carnitech.net Tue May 19 18:50:54 2009 From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:50:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] State of Washington L & I requirements References: Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051027ED9F@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> Hi Bill Just so it's clear to everyone coming to FITS and planning on buying motors from PSP: Will PSP be requiring an L&I permit for 62.5g+ motor purchases? If so, people will still need to find a "LEUP" buddy, or at the very least, someone with an L&I permit. Please clarify so no one is surprised when they show up. Thanks Denny ________________________________ From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tue 5/19/2009 5:27 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] State of Washington L & I requirements I have received a few calls about what L & I-State of Washington was planning to do with their regs on APCP rocket propellant. I called Mason Reiter (360.902.5569, Reit235 at LNI.wa.gov) and he said their office has no plans to change the law. All is as it is in the RED BOOK in it's latest edition. All regs are the same until the WA legislature eliminates the code section regarding APCP rocket motors (1.3 and 1.4 designated explosives). Shipments from Aerotech I just received are all in the 1.4 classification Some sections affected: WAC 296-52-69020, note#4 under Storage facilities WAC 296-52-60130 Low Explosives Part A page 12 denotes 1.2 and 1.3 explosives by U.S.DOT (49 CFR Part 173) WAC 296-52-60130 Definitions of Explosive Classes 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 ,1.5 classified by U.S. DOT WAC 296-52-62045 Dealers record keeping WAC 296-52-63005 Purchaser's License requirements Just a few but I'm sure after further search more will be found. What we all might get together at the next WAC meeting and discuss state regs and how best to go about removing our propellant from the state regs. I have contacted Carl and Kent about a starting place. I'm waiting for word from them how they suggest we go about it. your mileage may vary Bill @ PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- [RocketsNW] State of Washington L & I requirements Hi Bill ? Just so it's clear to everyone coming to?FITS and planning on buying motors from PSP: ? Will PSP be requiring an L&I permit for 62.5g+ motor?purchases?? If so, people will still need to find a "LEUP" buddy, or at the very least, someone with an L&I permit. ? Please clarify so no one is surprised when they show up. Thanks Denny From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tue 5/19/2009 5:27 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] State of Washington L & I requirements I have received a few calls about what L & I-State of Washington was planning to do with their regs on APCP rocket propellant. I called Mason Reiter (360.902.5569, Reit235 at LNI.wa.gov) and he said their office has no plans to change the law.? All is as it is in the RED BOOK in it's latest edition. All regs are the same until the WA legislature eliminates the code section regarding APCP rocket motors (1.3 and 1.4 designated explosives). Shipments from Aerotech I just received are all in the 1.4 classification Some sections affected: WAC 296-52-69020, note#4 under Storage facilities WAC 296-52-60130 Low Explosives Part A page 12 denotes 1.2 and 1.3 explosives by U.S.DOT (49 CFR Part 173) WAC 296-52-60130 Definitions of Explosive Classes 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 ,1.5 classified by U.S. DOT WAC 296-52-62045 Dealers record keeping WAC 296-52-63005 Purchaser's License requirements Just a few but I'm sure after further search more will be found. What we all might get together at the next WAC meeting and discuss state regs and how best to go about removing our propellant from the state regs. I have contacted Carl and Kent about a starting place.? I'm waiting for word from them how they suggest we go about it. your mileage may vary Bill @ PSP ?EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From daron at daronjohnson.com Tue May 19 19:30:21 2009 From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 19:30:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FM Broadcast at FITS? Message-ID: <001801c9d8f2$ee656f00$cb304d00$@com> I know there will be a new PA system, but what about an FM broadcast this year? -------------- next part -------------- I know there will be a new PA system, but what about an FM broadcast this year? ? ? From appusher at q.com Tue May 19 19:48:33 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 02:48:33 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? Message-ID: Just a quick question.... I have the equation for vent hole sizing for the altimeter bay. Not too small or the altimeter won't read the pressure change, not to larger or.....what? What is the or are the issues with having too large of a hole or holes? I have 3 screw switches for the electronic package but don't want to mount them on the outside. So, 3 holes about 1/4" in diameter 4" airframe with a 12" ebay length. Worst case senario is to mount them on the outside, but didn't want to. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- Just a quick question.... ? I have the equation for vent hole sizing?for the altimeter bay. Not too small or the altimeter won't read the pressure change, not to larger or.....what? ? What is the or are the issues with having too large of a hole or holes? I have 3 screw switches for the electronic package but don't want to mount them on the outside. So, 3 holes about 1/4" in diameter 4" airframe with a 12" ebay length. Worst case senario is to mount them on the outside, but didn't want to. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue May 19 19:59:47 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 19:59:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Krausert & OROC; Spring Thunder Report 2009 Message-ID: What a great May Spring Thunder 2009 at Brothers. First of all, the weather was great all three days. Yes, we had some wind, but nothing compared to previous years. Temperatures this weekend were warm and great. Never flew a rocket. Got busy helping everywhere I could. Covering registration at time, a couple hours at LCO, fixing GSE, etc. I'm happy anyway. This was a sablime weekend, and thought it went very well. Held a drawing that went well. There were two buckets; one kids only and the other for all. Kids got two tickets, one for each bucket. Adults got one for the "all" bucket. The drawing was two in the kids bucket and three in the all. In the end, four of the five winners were kids. And kids that this being there first time at Brothers and ever flying rockets. could of free kits and the grand prize was $40 at Sunriver Bob's booth. Those that won was excied. And those that didn't seemed ok. Seeing Bob's face afterward was well worth it all. Flyers meeting at 9:30 I asked for a show of hands of those new to Brothers. It was over half the group. I was truly impressed how all the ads and "getting the word out" was successful. I personally thank everyone that were involve in promoting the clud and our public launches. Tim? You did good. Estimating 250 flights Saturday alone. Way too many to thank. But I will try. Mark and John for hauling the trailer. Plus many others for helping with setup and tear down. Greg for registration and TRA certs. Gary for selling a bunch of shirts and hats. Randy for all the LCO time, and many others that covered LCO. Thank you to my neighbors; Greg, Randy, Mike, Norm, Bob, JP, and Lloyd. So many to mention, I could spend all day writing. And Kenzie. Thank you for the company and great conversation. Had a fantasic time, see you next month on the sage. All I can say; I am very proud to be a part of such a great group of people. Tip one back. Great weekend to remember. Best Regards to all. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President -------------- next part -------------- What a great May Spring Thunder 2009 at Brothers. First of all, the weather was great all three days. Yes, we had some wind, but nothing compared to previous years. Temperatures this weekend were warm and great. ? Never flew a rocket. Got busy helping everywhere I could. Covering registration at time, a couple hours at LCO, fixing GSE, etc. I'm happy anyway. This was a sablime weekend, and thought it went very well. ? Held a drawing that went well. There were two buckets; one kids only and the other for all. Kids got two tickets, one for each bucket. Adults got one for the "all" bucket. The drawing was?two in the kids bucket and three in the all. In the end, four of the five winners were kids. And kids that this being there first time at Brothers and ever flying rockets.? could of free kits and the grand prize was $40 at Sunriver Bob's booth. Those that won?was excied. And those that didn't seemed ok. Seeing Bob's face afterward was well worth it all. ? Flyers meeting at 9:30 I asked for a show of hands of those new to Brothers. It was over half the group. I was truly impressed how?all the ads and "getting the word out" was successful. I personally thank everyone that were involve in promoting the clud and our public launches. Tim? You did good. ? Estimating 250 flights Saturday alone. ? Way too many to thank. But I will try. Mark and John for hauling the trailer. Plus many others for helping with setup and tear down. Greg for registration and TRA certs. Gary for selling a bunch of shirts and hats. Randy for all the LCO time, and many others that covered?LCO.? ? Thank you to my neighbors; Greg, Randy, Mike, Norm, Bob,?JP, and Lloyd. So many to mention, I could spend all day writing. And Kenzie. Thank you for the company and great conversation. ? Had a fantasic time, see you next month on the sage. All I can say; I am very proud to be a part of such a great group of people. ? Tip one back. Great weekend to remember. Best Regards to all. ? Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue May 19 20:05:44 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:05:44 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Show & Tell @ next OROC meeting Message-ID: <675C152CB71445EABA7AE903FF4885D9@LaptopKrausert> Anyone have a project or topic that you are interested in sharing with the club at the next meeting? Please email me off list. Next meeting is Thursday June 4th. Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- Anyone have a project or topic that you are interested in sharing with the club at the next meeting? Please email me off list. ? Next meeting is Thursday June 4th. ? Cheers, Robert From bigredbee at gmail.com Tue May 19 20:06:13 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:06:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Krausert & OROC; Spring Thunder Report 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And a special thanks to those that stayed to pack up (you know who you are!). Even though we're all anxious to pack up and get home after a long weekend, it's great that a few stay 'til the very end to make sure that the range gets torn down, and packed into the trailer! And a special special thanks to Mark Gholston for hauling the trailer!!! -- Greg On 5/19/09, Robert Krausert wrote: > What a great May Spring Thunder 2009 at Brothers. First of all, the weather was great all three days. Yes, we had some wind, but nothing compared to previous years. Temperatures this weekend were warm and great. > > Never flew a rocket. Got busy helping everywhere I could. Covering registration at time, a couple hours at LCO, fixing GSE, etc. I'm happy anyway. This was a sablime weekend, and thought it went very well. > > Held a drawing that went well. There were two buckets; one kids only and the other for all. Kids got two tickets, one for each bucket. Adults got one for the "all" bucket. The drawing was two in the kids bucket and three in the all. In the end, four of the five winners were kids. And kids that this being there first time at Brothers and ever flying rockets. could of free kits and the grand prize was $40 at Sunriver Bob's booth. Those that won was excied. And those that didn't seemed ok. Seeing Bob's face afterward was well worth it all. > > Flyers meeting at 9:30 I asked for a show of hands of those new to Brothers. It was over half the group. I was truly impressed how all the ads and "getting the word out" was successful. I personally thank everyone that were involve in promoting the clud and our public launches. Tim? You did good. > > Estimating 250 flights Saturday alone. > > Way too many to thank. But I will try. Mark and John for hauling the trailer. Plus many others for helping with setup and tear down. Greg for registration and TRA certs. Gary for selling a bunch of shirts and hats. Randy for all the LCO time, and many others that covered LCO. > > Thank you to my neighbors; Greg, Randy, Mike, Norm, Bob, JP, and Lloyd. So many to mention, I could spend all day writing. And Kenzie. Thank you for the company and great conversation. > > Had a fantasic time, see you next month on the sage. All I can say; I am very proud to be a part of such a great group of people. > > Tip one back. Great weekend to remember. Best Regards to all. > > Cheers, > Robert > OregonRocketry President > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From raystoner99 at comcast.net Tue May 19 20:16:08 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:16:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fresh Paint In-Reply-To: <1396b1c98b9242d1faf856814a155603.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <1396b1c98b9242d1faf856814a155603.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <00ae01c9d8f9$526496b0$f72dc410$@net> Just a little history on my "Fresh Paint" rocket. I first flew it at BALLS 3 years ago (2005), I hastily put it together in the week prior to the event, but didn't have any time to put paint on it. Traveling to the event, we stopped for -something- on the road, and I purchased some Pumpkin Orange paint, don't even remember the brand. I figured on putting a nice paint job on it when I got home, but the color of the fiberglass tubes blends into the Playa too well, so it needed some color. I figured the pumpkin orange would inspire me to sand it off when I returned. I flew it at BALLS twice, both great flights...then used it for my level three certification in 2006. The next day I flew it at the research event at Tom's ranch. It got drug about 1/2 mile through the rocky fields by pretty stiff winds, and sustained pretty significant damage. I repaired it for the June research launch, and this time the motor (a 3 grain 75mm) burned through the side of the case and destroyed the fin can. In its short life it never changed color from that pumpkin orange I had sprayed on it on the playa. Fast forward to Balls 2007, or just before. We left on Wednesday prior to the event. On Tuesday I assembled the fin can. This was a significant effort for a one day build. It's a 4" diameter bird build for LONG 75mm motors. The planned flight was on a 6 grain 75mm Malamute formula, 7500NS M1950. It *had* to be built right, even if it was built fast. That flight went without a flaw, 18,600 feet. The top half of the rocket was/is that pumpkin orange, the fin can was raw fiberglassed phenolic tubing. This would not do...The rocket was called fresh paint for the first event at BALLS, and in keeping with that theme, I've decided just prior to that flight, that every time I fly the rocket it will have fresh paint, hopefully provided by someone at the launch. Pete Eckstrom of team Numb was the lucky guy at BALLS last year. So the rocket has one fin painted a nice shade of Team Numb pink/purple with a Team Numb logo on one of the other fins. Now I'm preparing to fly it again at the Research event on Friday at FITS...so I need some donor paint...the key to success for this rocket is that the paint is still drying DURING the flight, so I'm looking for some form of donation of about 10 seconds of spray from a paint can. The color doesn't really matter, the louder the better. I'll take any offers! You'll be a part of my history...and have my thanks! Ray From bigredbee at gmail.com Tue May 19 20:43:45 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:43:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm min dia aft airframe Message-ID: So -- I've got this custom built rocket that's missing the aft end 54mm min diameter dual deploy hand made (by me) CF tubing and F/G nosecone (from Curtis) I really don't want to go thru the trouble (aka TIME) to make another section of hand made CF tubing to replace this, but I'm willing to attach fins and do the tip-to-tip work w/ more CF. What should I do? Phenolic? Cardboard? Fiberglass? Cardboard? I'd like to fly this on large 54mm K motors (ie K270) or even an L Anyone got a reliable source for 3-foot sections of CF tubing? -- Greg From tnetcenter at gmail.com Tue May 19 20:44:12 2009 From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:44:12 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? References: Message-ID: <41B0BA1202B14363B5D39C51B4D69F9E@TNTCENTER> If the altimeter vent holes are too large, you may get premature ejection due to wind effects, flight-caused drafts in the e-bay etc. Mounting the screw switches to the outside of the rocket works great - this is the method we used with the new BORG WAC2 sustainer (4.5 inch dia. airframe. e-bay is approx 14 inches long). It performed flawlessly with 2 altimeters and a timer - all charges went off. The switches can't get any more accessible either and you don't have to fish around in an opening hoping you get the switch and don't short out your electronics. We've used key switches, slide switches, slide switches behind holes, etc. The screw switches mounted on the outside of the airframe are the best setup in my opinion. Jeff Moore BORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:48 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? Just a quick question.... I have the equation for vent hole sizing for the altimeter bay. Not too small or the altimeter won't read the pressure change, not to larger or.....what? What is the or are the issues with having too large of a hole or holes? I have 3 screw switches for the electronic package but don't want to mount them on the outside. So, 3 holes about 1/4" in diameter 4" airframe with a 12" ebay length. Worst case senario is to mount them on the outside, but didn't want to. Bill From raystoner99 at comcast.net Tue May 19 20:44:17 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:44:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fresh Paint In-Reply-To: <00ae01c9d8f9$526496b0$f72dc410$@net> References: <1396b1c98b9242d1faf856814a155603.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <00ae01c9d8f9$526496b0$f72dc410$@net> Message-ID: <00c201c9d8fd$4203a370$c60aea50$@net> Sorry, I spaced the years! 2006 for BALLS and 2007 for Level 3. Senior moment. Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:16 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Fresh Paint Just a little history on my "Fresh Paint" rocket. I first flew it at BALLS 3 years ago (2005), I hastily put it together in the week prior to the event, but didn't have any time to put paint on it. Traveling to the event, we stopped for -something- on the road, and I purchased some Pumpkin Orange paint, don't even remember the brand. I figured on putting a nice paint job on it when I got home, but the color of the fiberglass tubes blends into the Playa too well, so it needed some color. I figured the pumpkin orange would inspire me to sand it off when I returned. I flew it at BALLS twice, both great flights...then used it for my level three certification in 2006. The next day I flew it at the research event at Tom's ranch. It got drug about 1/2 mile through the rocky fields by pretty stiff winds, and sustained pretty significant damage. I repaired it for the June research launch, and this time the motor (a 3 grain 75mm) burned through the side of the case and destroyed the fin can. In its short life it never changed color from that pumpkin orange I had sprayed on it on the playa. Fast forward to Balls 2007, or just before. We left on Wednesday prior to the event. On Tuesday I assembled the fin can. This was a significant effort for a one day build. It's a 4" diameter bird build for LONG 75mm motors. The planned flight was on a 6 grain 75mm Malamute formula, 7500NS M1950. It *had* to be built right, even if it was built fast. That flight went without a flaw, 18,600 feet. The top half of the rocket was/is that pumpkin orange, the fin can was raw fiberglassed phenolic tubing. This would not do...The rocket was called fresh paint for the first event at BALLS, and in keeping with that theme, I've decided just prior to that flight, that every time I fly the rocket it will have fresh paint, hopefully provided by someone at the launch. Pete Eckstrom of team Numb was the lucky guy at BALLS last year. So the rocket has one fin painted a nice shade of Team Numb pink/purple with a Team Numb logo on one of the other fins. Now I'm preparing to fly it again at the Research event on Friday at FITS...so I need some donor paint...the key to success for this rocket is that the paint is still drying DURING the flight, so I'm looking for some form of donation of about 10 seconds of spray from a paint can. The color doesn't really matter, the louder the better. I'll take any offers! You'll be a part of my history...and have my thanks! Ray _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Tue May 19 20:46:33 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 03:46:33 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm min dia aft airframe Message-ID: What's your outer diameter? I have used Cf sleeve over phenolic and it comes out very strong - though heavier than straight CF would be. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Clark [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 08:43 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm min dia aft airframe So -- I've got this custom built rocket that's missing the aft end 54mm min diameter dual deploy hand made (by me) CF tubing and F/G nosecone (from Curtis) I really don't want to go thru the trouble (aka TIME) to make another section of hand made CF tubing to replace this, but I'm willing to attach fins and do the tip-to-tip work w/ more CF. What should I do? Phenolic? Cardboard? Fiberglass? Cardboard? I'd like to fly this on large 54mm K motors (ie K270) or even an L Anyone got a reliable source for 3-foot sections of CF tubing? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- What's your outer diameter? I have used Cf sleeve over phenolic and it comes out very strong - though heavier than straight CF would be. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Clark [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 08:43 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm min dia aft airframe So -- I've got this custom built rocket that's missing the aft end 54mm min diameter dual deploy hand made (by me) CF tubing and F/G nosecone (from Curtis) I really don't want to go thru the trouble (aka TIME) to make another section of hand made CF tubing to replace this, but I'm willing to attach fins and do the tip-to-tip work w/ more CF. What should I do? Phenolic? Cardboard? Fiberglass? Cardboard? I'd like to fly this on large 54mm K motors (ie K270) or even an L Anyone got a reliable source for 3-foot sections of CF tubing? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bigredbee at gmail.com Tue May 19 21:17:04 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:17:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm min dia aft airframe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OD is going to be less than that -- but I'm not too picky. The point is that I want to buy something -- time is my enemy. In reality, I'm sure that phenolic would be strong enough -- after all -- there's gonna be a large aluminum reinforcement inside.... -- Greg On 5/19/09, Scott Berfield wrote: > What's your outer diameter? I have used Cf sleeve over phenolic and it comes > out very strong - though heavier than straight CF would be. > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Clark [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 08:43 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm min dia aft airframe > > So -- I've got this custom built rocket that's missing the aft end 54mm min > diameter dual deploy hand made (by me) CF tubing and F/G nosecone (from > Curtis) I really don't want to go thru the trouble (aka TIME) to make > another section of hand made CF tubing to replace this, but I'm willing to > attach fins and do the tip-to-tip work w/ more CF. What should I do? > Phenolic? Cardboard? Fiberglass? Cardboard? I'd like to fly this on large > 54mm K motors (ie K270) or even an L Anyone got a reliable source for 3-foot > sections of CF tubing? -- Greg > _______________________________________________ Rockets > mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Tue May 19 21:25:40 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:25:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? In-Reply-To: <41B0BA1202B14363B5D39C51B4D69F9E@TNTCENTER> References: <41B0BA1202B14363B5D39C51B4D69F9E@TNTCENTER> Message-ID: <027b01c9d903$08de1070$1a9a3150$@net> I have used 3 screw switches with 1/4" holes in a vertical column along with 2 by 1/8" to 3/16" holes at 120 degrees in ebays from 38 to 90 mm diameter with no issues that I can attribute to the vent holes. I agree with Jeff that getting things lined up is a key - I keep any wiring away from the switches to solve the shorting issue. I use a continuous airframe that the ebay slides into the middle for structural integrity so my challenge is to get the switch holes in the ebay lined up with the ones in the airframe - it has taken over 20 minutes at times and I am extremely frustrated by the time I finish. Nice smooth fiberglass airframes that can be wiped very clean with a baby wipe make it easier. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Moore Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:44 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? If the altimeter vent holes are too large, you may get premature ejection due to wind effects, flight-caused drafts in the e-bay etc. Mounting the screw switches to the outside of the rocket works great - this is the method we used with the new BORG WAC2 sustainer (4.5 inch dia. airframe. e-bay is approx 14 inches long). It performed flawlessly with 2 altimeters and a timer - all charges went off. The switches can't get any more accessible either and you don't have to fish around in an opening hoping you get the switch and don't short out your electronics. We've used key switches, slide switches, slide switches behind holes, etc. The screw switches mounted on the outside of the airframe are the best setup in my opinion. Jeff Moore BORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:48 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? Just a quick question.... I have the equation for vent hole sizing for the altimeter bay. Not too small or the altimeter won't read the pressure change, not to larger or.....what? What is the or are the issues with having too large of a hole or holes? I have 3 screw switches for the electronic package but don't want to mount them on the outside. So, 3 holes about 1/4" in diameter 4" airframe with a 12" ebay length. Worst case senario is to mount them on the outside, but didn't want to. Bill _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue May 19 21:48:36 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:48:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? In-Reply-To: <027b01c9d903$08de1070$1a9a3150$@net> References: <41B0BA1202B14363B5D39C51B4D69F9E@TNTCENTER> <027b01c9d903$08de1070$1a9a3150$@net> Message-ID: <4A138BA4.2030406@hawkfeather.com> My L3 has an internal ebay with mating holes in the airframe that are both the vents and access to the arming switches. Lining it all up is accomplished by making a stop for the ebay sliding in (dowels epoxied inside the airframe) and keyed alignment using 2 sets of the dowels on the airframe close together and a single mating dowel on top of the ebay bulkhead. Kinda tricky during construction but painless in the field. Andrew. Marty2 wrote: > I have used 3 screw switches with 1/4" holes in a vertical column along with > 2 by 1/8" to 3/16" holes at 120 degrees in ebays from 38 to 90 mm diameter > with no issues that I can attribute to the vent holes. I agree with Jeff > that getting things lined up is a key - I keep any wiring away from the > switches to solve the shorting issue. I use a continuous airframe that the > ebay slides into the middle for structural integrity so my challenge is to > get the switch holes in the ebay lined up with the ones in the airframe - it > has taken over 20 minutes at times and I am extremely frustrated by the time > I finish. Nice smooth fiberglass airframes that can be wiped very clean > with a baby wipe make it easier. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Jeff Moore > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:44 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? > > If the altimeter vent holes are too large, you may get premature ejection > due to wind effects, flight-caused drafts in the e-bay etc. > > Mounting the screw switches to the outside of the rocket works great - this > is the method we used with the new BORG WAC2 sustainer (4.5 inch dia. > airframe. e-bay is approx 14 inches long). It performed flawlessly with 2 > altimeters and a timer - all charges went off. The switches can't get any > more accessible either and you don't have to fish around in an opening > hoping you get the switch and don't short out your electronics. > > We've used key switches, slide switches, slide switches behind holes, etc. > The screw switches mounted on the outside of the airframe are the best setup > > in my opinion. > > Jeff Moore > BORG > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Munds" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:48 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? > > > > Just a quick question.... > > > > I have the equation for vent hole sizing for the altimeter bay. > > Not too small or the altimeter won't read the pressure change, not to larger > > or.....what? > > > > What is the or are the issues with having too large of a hole or holes? > > I have 3 screw switches for the electronic package but don't want to mount > them on the outside. > > So, 3 holes about 1/4" in diameter 4" airframe with a 12" ebay length. > > Worst case senario is to mount them on the outside, but didn't want to. > > > > Bill > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bclugston1 at comcast.net Tue May 19 21:54:12 2009 From: bclugston1 at comcast.net (William Clugston) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:54:12 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CB5F372-9853-44F7-ACE4-6047F0243D4F@comcast.net> Just small stuff this time, even though the Offut Hawk may come out of retirement in light of the ATF ruling. The new rockets are an Estes Mercury Redstone (up-engined to 24mm), Aerotech IQSY Tomahawk, and the Cherokee 3D from Hawks Hobbies. Hopefully there'll be some F32 engines around :-) Bill Clugston bclugston1 at comcast.net http://www.earthskystars.net (Rocketry and Astronomy) On May 19, 2009, at 12:53 PM, IBELCHLOUD at aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to > rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The > special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a > K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't > feel they were special enough though. > How about the rest of you? > Lou > ************** > An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx > ?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From mrrominwa at yahoo.com Tue May 19 22:39:40 2009 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 22:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Message-ID: <510472.60931.qm@web53106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> 29mm hybrid, 38mm hybrid,54mmhybrid and because of the ruling some apcp ? ?????????????????????????????????? dave --- On Tue, 5/19/09, William Clugston wrote: From: William Clugston Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! To: "NorthWest Rocketry" Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 9:54 PM Just small stuff this time, even though the Offut Hawk may come out of? retirement in light of the ATF ruling. The new rockets are an Estes? Mercury Redstone (up-engined to 24mm), Aerotech IQSY Tomahawk, and the? Cherokee 3D from Hawks Hobbies. Hopefully there'll be some F32 engines around :-) Bill Clugston bclugston1 at comcast.net http://www.earthskystars.net (Rocketry and Astronomy) On May 19, 2009, at 12:53 PM, IBELCHLOUD at aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to? > rockets!? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew?? The? > special projects page is quite blank.? I have two flights planned, a? > K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.? I didn't? > feel they were special enough though. > How about the rest of you? > Lou > ************** > An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx > ?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- 29mm hybrid, 38mm hybrid,54mmhybrid and because of the ruling some apcp ? ?????????????????????????????????? dave --- On Tue, 5/19/09, William Clugston wrote: From: William Clugston Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! To: "NorthWest Rocketry" Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 9:54 PM Just small stuff this time, even though the Offut Hawk may come out of? retirement in light of the ATF ruling. The new rockets are an Estes? Mercury Redstone (up-engined to 24mm), Aerotech IQSY Tomahawk, and the? Cherokee 3D from Hawks Hobbies. Hopefully there'll be some F32 engines around :-) Bill Clugston http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bclugston1 at comcast.net bclugston1 at comcast.net http://www.earthskystars.net/ http://www.earthskystars.net (Rocketry and Astronomy) On May 19, 2009, at 12:53 PM, http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=IBELCHLOUD at aol.com IBELCHLOUD at aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to? > rockets!? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew?? The? > special projects page is quite blank.? I have two flights planned, a? > K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.? I didn't? > feel they were special enough though. > How about the rest of you? > Lou > ************** > An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ( http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx > ?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MayExcfooter51609NO62) > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From appusher at q.com Tue May 19 21:40:32 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 04:40:32 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [Fwd: AeroTech Information Release 5/19/09] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This just came in today from aerotech. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:11:56 -0700 > Subject: [Fwd: AeroTech Information Release 5/19/09] > From: sales at pugetsoundpropulsion.com > To: appusher at q.com > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > Subject: AeroTech Information Release 5/19/09 > From: "Diane Carlson" > Date: Tue, May 19, 2009 2:39 pm > To: "CA Dealers & HP Dealers" > Cc: "Gary Rosenfield" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear AeroTech Product Representative: > > Federal BATFE Permits No Longer Required to Purchase and Store AeroTech > High-Power Motors and Reload Kits > > Following the resolution of a long and difficult legal struggle, AeroTech is > very happy to report that effective immediately all AeroTech high-power > (generally 'H' class and above) rocket motors and reload kits are now free > from regulation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives > (BATFE). This means that NO federal BATFE permits are required to purchase, > store, sell or use these products. > > Dealers are reminded that AeroTech high-power motors and reloads must only > be sold to individuals 18 years of age or older in possession of a NAR or > Tripoli user certification level commensurate with the motors they wish to > purchase. Also, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations remain in > effect regarding the operation of all high-power rockets. > > Please read the Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation from the NAR and TRA > below, and the attached order from District Court Judge Reggie B. Walton. > > Thanks go out to the officials of the TRA and NAR, their legal team and the > members, dealers and manufacturers who supported this effort over many > years. > > We believe that this news will open up the market for greatly increased > sales of high-power rocket products, including motors, hardware, kits, parts > and accessories. > > Also, you should be aware that many AeroTech high-power reload kits may be > shipped via USPS Parcel Post? without incurring a hazmat fee. See the > attached AeroTech/RCS document for a complete listing. > > On a related topic, we would like to inform dealers that as of 11/24/08 FAA > ATC notification is no longer required for any AeroTech rocket kit using the > recommended motors. FAA final rule 2007-27390 is attached for your review. > > Contact Diane Carlson at dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com or 435-865-7100 x101 > if you wish to apply for an AeroTech high-power dealership and/or if you > have any questions concerning this information release. > > For your convenience we have attached a copy of the 2009-2010 AeroTech > product catalog. Dealer order forms are being updated and will be sent to > you shortly. > ----------------------------------- > > Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > > May 18, 2009 > > Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not > appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which > ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, > and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on > advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although > we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may > operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer > regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the > permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such > motors. > > Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) > and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP > rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the > "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may > be subject to these requirements. > > Members are also reminded that both TRA and NAR safety codes stipulate what > motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. > These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the > rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer > certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring > we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element > in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside > agencies. > > Members should immediately contact the leadership of TRA or NAR should they > encounter situations where any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a > manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. > > Ken Good > TRA President > > Trip Barber > NAR President > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Diane Carlson > AeroTech Division > RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. > 2113 W. 850 N. > Cedar City, UT 84721 > Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101 > Fax: 435-865-7120 > Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > www.aerotech-rocketry.com > > -------------- next part -------------- This just came in today from aerotech. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:11:56 -0700 > Subject: [Fwd: AeroTech Information Release 5/19/09] > From: sales at pugetsoundpropulsion.com > To: appusher at q.com > > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > Subject: AeroTech Information Release 5/19/09 > From: "Diane Carlson" > Date: Tue, May 19, 2009 2:39 pm > To: "CA Dealers & HP Dealers" > Cc: "Gary Rosenfield" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear AeroTech Product Representative: > > Federal BATFE Permits No Longer Required to Purchase and Store AeroTech > High-Power Motors and Reload Kits > > Following the resolution of a long and difficult legal struggle, AeroTech is > very happy to report that effective immediately all AeroTech high-power > (generally 'H' class and above) rocket motors and reload kits are now free > from regulation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives > (BATFE). This means that NO federal BATFE permits are required to purchase, > store, sell or use these products. > > Dealers are reminded that AeroTech high-power motors and reloads must only > be sold to individuals 18 years of age or older in possession of a NAR or > Tripoli user certification level commensurate with the motors they wish to > purchase. Also, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations remain in > effect regarding the operation of all high-power rockets. > > Please read the Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation from the NAR and TRA > below, and the attached order from District Court Judge Reggie B. Walton. > > Thanks go out to the officials of the TRA and NAR, their legal team and the > members, dealers and manufacturers who supported this effort over many > years. > > We believe that this news will open up the market for greatly increased > sales of high-power rocket products, including motors, hardware, kits, parts > and accessories. > > Also, you should be aware that many AeroTech high-power reload kits may be > shipped via USPS Parcel Post? without incurring a hazmat fee. See the > attached AeroTech/RCS document for a complete listing. > > On a related topic, we would like to inform dealers that as of 11/24/08 FAA > ATC notification is no longer required for any AeroTech rocket kit using the > recommended motors. FAA final rule 2007-27390 is attached for your review. > > Contact Diane Carlson at dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com or 435-865-7100 x101 > if you wish to apply for an AeroTech high-power dealership and/or if you > have any questions concerning this information release. > > For your convenience we have attached a copy of the 2009-2010 AeroTech > product catalog. Dealer order forms are being updated and will be sent to > you shortly. > ----------------------------------- > > Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > > May 18, 2009 > > Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has not > appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, 2009, which > ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP as an explosive, > and the period for their ability to do so has expired as of May 16, 2009, on > advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment is considered final although > we have not received confirmation from BATFE. Accordingly, members may > operate under the understanding that APCP rocket motors are no longer > regulated as an explosive material by BATFE, and no longer require the > permits formerly required by the agency to buy, sell, or possess such > motors. > > Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to possess) > and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. While APCP > rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of the > "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other materials may > be subject to these requirements. > > Members are also reminded that both TRA and NAR safety codes stipulate what > motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. > These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with the > rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who possess flyer > certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to purchase. Ensuring > we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential element > in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by outside > agencies. > > Members should immediately contact the leadership of TRA or NAR should they > encounter situations where any BATFE personnel conduct themselves in a > manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. > > Ken Good > TRA President > > Trip Barber > NAR President > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Diane Carlson > AeroTech Division > RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. > 2113 W. 850 N. > Cedar City, UT 84721 > Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101 > Fax: 435-865-7120 > Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > www.aerotech-rocketry.com > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: usps_shippable_4-17-09[3].pdf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 63165 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/rockets/attachments/20090520/0629b961/attachment-0002.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: atfe_3-16-09[3].pdf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 33013 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/rockets/attachments/20090520/0629b961/attachment-0003.obj From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed May 20 01:00:40 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 01:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Fresh Paint In-Reply-To: <00ae01c9d8f9$526496b0$f72dc410$@net> References: <1396b1c98b9242d1faf856814a155603.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <00ae01c9d8f9$526496b0$f72dc410$@net> Message-ID: <8166ff29eb57697d6cbd26ab9236d7de.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Hmmm, Ray, you're giving me thoughts of a "stone soup" rocket... :-) +McG+ > Just a little history on my "Fresh Paint" rocket. > > I first flew it at BALLS 3 years ago (2005), I hastily put it together in > the week prior to the event, but didn't have any time to put paint on it. > Traveling to the event, we stopped for -something- on the road, and I > purchased some Pumpkin Orange paint, don't even remember the brand. I > figured on putting a nice paint job on it when I got home, but the color > of > the fiberglass tubes blends into the Playa too well, so it needed some > color. I figured the pumpkin orange would inspire me to sand it off when > I > returned. > > I flew it at BALLS twice, both great flights...then used it for my level > three certification in 2006. The next day I flew it at the research event > at Tom's ranch. It got drug about 1/2 mile through the rocky fields by > pretty stiff winds, and sustained pretty significant damage. > > I repaired it for the June research launch, and this time the motor (a 3 > grain 75mm) burned through the side of the case and destroyed the fin can. > > In its short life it never changed color from that pumpkin orange I had > sprayed on it on the playa. > > Fast forward to Balls 2007, or just before. We left on Wednesday prior to > the event. On Tuesday I assembled the fin can. This was a significant > effort for a one day build. It's a 4" diameter bird build for LONG 75mm > motors. The planned flight was on a 6 grain 75mm Malamute formula, 7500NS > M1950. It *had* to be built right, even if it was built fast. That > flight > went without a flaw, 18,600 feet. > > The top half of the rocket was/is that pumpkin orange, the fin can was raw > fiberglassed phenolic tubing. This would not do...The rocket was called > fresh paint for the first event at BALLS, and in keeping with that theme, > I've decided just prior to that flight, that every time I fly the rocket > it > will have fresh paint, hopefully provided by someone at the launch. Pete > Eckstrom of team Numb was the lucky guy at BALLS last year. So the rocket > has one fin painted a nice shade of Team Numb pink/purple with a Team Numb > logo on one of the other fins. > > Now I'm preparing to fly it again at the Research event on Friday at > FITS...so I need some donor paint...the key to success for this rocket is > that the paint is still drying DURING the flight, so I'm looking for some > form of donation of about 10 seconds of spray from a paint can. The color > doesn't really matter, the louder the better. I'll take any offers! > > You'll be a part of my history...and have my thanks! > > Ray > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed May 20 01:46:22 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 01:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] State of Washington L & I requirements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <28894c6892d7dcdbbfadaf9aa171290a.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Years ago I went around the bush a few times with the state Fire Marshal about getting the state regs on rocketry, which were an obsolete version of NFPA 1122, repealed. They were, and that change soon supplanted by the adoption of the UFC. L&I's role was only a tangential factor then. The problem now with L&I is that the DoT definitions are not utterly unreasonable and are supported by a coherent testing system. You're going to have to be really good salesmen to get L&I to drop APCP and SU motors from regulation as explosives. My only advice is to engage the effort with the excruciating thoroughness and attention to detail rocket scientists are renowned for. They have to know that you know your stuff, no "ummms" or "errrs" about it. Good luck! (A really good salesman can sell sand to the Saudis, ice cubes to Eskimos and bottled seawater to the Polynesians.) Tiptoeing quietly away now... ;-) +McG+ > I have received a few calls about what L & I-State of Washington was > planning to do with their regs on APCP rocket propellant. > ? > I called Mason Reiter (360.902.5569, mailto:Reit235 at LNI.wa.gov > Reit235 at LNI.wa.gov > ) and he said their office has no plans to change the law.? All is as it > is in the RED BOOK in it's latest edition. > ? > All regs are the same until the WA legislature eliminates the code section > regarding APCP rocket motors (1.3 and 1.4 designated explosives). > Shipments from Aerotech I just received are all in the 1.4 classification > Some sections affected: > WAC 296-52-69020, note#4 under Storage facilities > WAC 296-52-60130 Low Explosives Part A page 12 denotes 1.2 and 1.3 > explosives by U.S.DOT (49 CFR Part 173) > WAC 296-52-60130 Definitions of Explosive Classes 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 ,1.5 > classified by U.S. DOT > WAC 296-52-62045 Dealers record keeping > WAC 296-52-63005 Purchaser's License requirements > Just a few but I'm sure after further search more will be found. > ? > What we all might get together at the next WAC meeting and discuss state > regs and how best to go about removing our propellant from the state regs. > I have contacted Carl and Kent about a starting place.? I'm waiting for > word from them how they suggest we go about it. > ? > ? > your mileage may vary > Bill @ PSP > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER > GOOD > Join me > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From scott at scottsrockets.com Wed May 20 07:16:01 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:16:01 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [Fwd: AeroTech Information Release 5/19/09] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <762F57AAA88244C6B3EEA34FFF7D5D77@Mobile2> Hmmm, level 1 motors by parcel post, pretty cool. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:41 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [Fwd: AeroTech Information Release 5/19/09] This just came in today from aerotech. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:11:56 -0700 > Subject: [Fwd: AeroTech Information Release 5/19/09] > From: sales at pugetsoundpropulsion.com > To: appusher at q.com > > ---------------------------- Original Message > ---------------------------- > Subject: AeroTech Information Release 5/19/09 > From: "Diane Carlson" > Date: Tue, May 19, 2009 2:39 pm > To: "CA Dealers & HP Dealers" > Cc: "Gary Rosenfield" > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > Dear AeroTech Product Representative: > > Federal BATFE Permits No Longer Required to Purchase and Store > AeroTech High-Power Motors and Reload Kits > > Following the resolution of a long and difficult legal struggle, > AeroTech is very happy to report that effective immediately all > AeroTech high-power (generally 'H' class and above) rocket motors and > reload kits are now free from regulation by the Bureau of Alcohol, > Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). This means that NO federal > BATFE permits are required to purchase, store, sell or use these products. > > Dealers are reminded that AeroTech high-power motors and reloads must > only be sold to individuals 18 years of age or older in possession of > a NAR or Tripoli user certification level commensurate with the motors > they wish to purchase. Also, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) > regulations remain in effect regarding the operation of all high-power rockets. > > Please read the Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation from the NAR > and TRA below, and the attached order from District Court Judge Reggie B. Walton. > > Thanks go out to the officials of the TRA and NAR, their legal team > and the members, dealers and manufacturers who supported this effort > over many years. > > We believe that this news will open up the market for greatly > increased sales of high-power rocket products, including motors, > hardware, kits, parts and accessories. > > Also, you should be aware that many AeroTech high-power reload kits > may be shipped via USPS Parcel PostR without incurring a hazmat fee. > See the attached AeroTech/RCS document for a complete listing. > > On a related topic, we would like to inform dealers that as of > 11/24/08 FAA ATC notification is no longer required for any AeroTech > rocket kit using the recommended motors. FAA final rule 2007-27390 is attached for your review. > > Contact Diane Carlson at dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com or > 435-865-7100 x101 if you wish to apply for an AeroTech high-power > dealership and/or if you have any questions concerning this information release. > > For your convenience we have attached a copy of the 2009-2010 AeroTech > product catalog. Dealer order forms are being updated and will be sent > to you shortly. > ----------------------------------- > > Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > > May 18, 2009 > > Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > > Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > possess) and store materials that are still considered regulated by > BATFE. While APCP rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the > requirements of the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a > LEUP, other materials may be subject to these requirements. > > Members are also reminded that both TRA and NAR safety codes stipulate > what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer certification. > These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > purchase. Ensuring we maintain our strong level of self-regulation > will be an essential element in our ability to retain this freedom > from overregulation by outside agencies. > > Members should immediately contact the leadership of TRA or NAR should > they encounter situations where any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal District Court. > > Ken Good > TRA President > > Trip Barber > NAR President > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Diane Carlson > AeroTech Division > RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. > 2113 W. 850 N. > Cedar City, UT 84721 > Ph: 435-865-7100 Ext. 101 > Fax: 435-865-7120 > Email: dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > www.aerotech-rocketry.com > > From absworld at cet.com Wed May 20 07:36:25 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:36:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03ab01c9d958$5c23a880$146af980$@com> Sounds like you've got plenty of vent. Too small and you get a time delay effect, too large and gusty winds might trigger the baro sensor. It is also important that the holes be equally spaced around the airframe. You don't mention the orientation of yours. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:49 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] alitimeter vent hole for ebay? Just a quick question.... I have the equation for vent hole sizing for the altimeter bay. Not too small or the altimeter won't read the pressure change, not to larger or.....what? What is the or are the issues with having too large of a hole or holes? I have 3 screw switches for the electronic package but don't want to mount them on the outside. So, 3 holes about 1/4" in diameter 4" airframe with a 12" ebay length. Worst case senario is to mount them on the outside, but didn't want to. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 06:21:00 From absworld at cet.com Wed May 20 07:36:25 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:36:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fresh Paint In-Reply-To: <00ae01c9d8f9$526496b0$f72dc410$@net> References: <1396b1c98b9242d1faf856814a155603.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <00ae01c9d8f9$526496b0$f72dc410$@net> Message-ID: <03a901c9d958$5a90d380$0fb27a80$@com> Regarding the part about getting drug 1/2 mile, that is the only time I've ever seen a rocket land in close proximity and yet still require RF tracking in order to recover. That thing was hidden pretty good when it finally quit moving. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:16 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Fresh Paint Just a little history on my "Fresh Paint" rocket. I first flew it at BALLS 3 years ago (2005), I hastily put it together in the week prior to the event, but didn't have any time to put paint on it. Traveling to the event, we stopped for -something- on the road, and I purchased some Pumpkin Orange paint, don't even remember the brand. I figured on putting a nice paint job on it when I got home, but the color of the fiberglass tubes blends into the Playa too well, so it needed some color. I figured the pumpkin orange would inspire me to sand it off when I returned. I flew it at BALLS twice, both great flights...then used it for my level three certification in 2006. The next day I flew it at the research event at Tom's ranch. It got drug about 1/2 mile through the rocky fields by pretty stiff winds, and sustained pretty significant damage. I repaired it for the June research launch, and this time the motor (a 3 grain 75mm) burned through the side of the case and destroyed the fin can. In its short life it never changed color from that pumpkin orange I had sprayed on it on the playa. Fast forward to Balls 2007, or just before. We left on Wednesday prior to the event. On Tuesday I assembled the fin can. This was a significant effort for a one day build. It's a 4" diameter bird build for LONG 75mm motors. The planned flight was on a 6 grain 75mm Malamute formula, 7500NS M1950. It *had* to be built right, even if it was built fast. That flight went without a flaw, 18,600 feet. The top half of the rocket was/is that pumpkin orange, the fin can was raw fiberglassed phenolic tubing. This would not do...The rocket was called fresh paint for the first event at BALLS, and in keeping with that theme, I've decided just prior to that flight, that every time I fly the rocket it will have fresh paint, hopefully provided by someone at the launch. Pete Eckstrom of team Numb was the lucky guy at BALLS last year. So the rocket has one fin painted a nice shade of Team Numb pink/purple with a Team Numb logo on one of the other fins. Now I'm preparing to fly it again at the Research event on Friday at FITS...so I need some donor paint...the key to success for this rocket is that the paint is still drying DURING the flight, so I'm looking for some form of donation of about 10 seconds of spray from a paint can. The color doesn't really matter, the louder the better. I'll take any offers! You'll be a part of my history...and have my thanks! Ray _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 06:21:00 From absworld at cet.com Wed May 20 07:36:25 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:36:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FM Broadcast at FITS? In-Reply-To: <001801c9d8f2$ee656f00$cb304d00$@com> References: <001801c9d8f2$ee656f00$cb304d00$@com> Message-ID: <03aa01c9d958$5b3a0bd0$11ae2370$@com> I'm hoping FRS radios will still be incorporated. A PA system that everyone can hear is going to be somewhat annoying to those anywhere near a speaker. I really like being able to 'keep in touch' while out on recovery or just sitting back in camp. I was always going to go out and snag a simple FM radio (key word = was). No time now as my panic factor is up to 5 (not bad for T-1 day ;-). Major KUDOs to whoever coordinated the weather. Forecast is FANTASTIC! Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Daron Johnson Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:30 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FM Broadcast at FITS? I know there will be a new PA system, but what about an FM broadcast this year? -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.34/2122 - Release Date: 05/19/09 06:21:00 From carl at mousetrap.com Wed May 20 09:46:58 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:46:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Online registration for Fire in the Sky (final) Message-ID: If you are not planning to attend Fire in the Sky, or if you have already registered, or if you are just sick of my "please register for FITS" emails, you can stop reading now. Fire in the Sky is this weekend and the weather forecasts are looking great! If you haven't gotten around to it yet, please consider registering for FITS online at http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php. While registration online isn't strictly necessary, it will make your check-in process at the launch easy, which means you will get out to the pads sooner. The online forms will shut themselves off Thursday night at 11:59PM PDT. If you plan to register online, you'll need to do it before then. Thanks! - Carl -------------- next part -------------- Fire in the Sky is this weekend and the weather forecasts are looking great! If you haven't gotten around to it yet, please consider registering for FITS online at? http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php . While registration online isn't strictly necessary, it will make your check-in process at the launch easy, which means you will get out to the pads sooner. The online forms will shut themselves off Thursday night at 11:59PM PDT. If you plan to register online, you'll need to do it before then. Thanks! ?- Carl From t.j.doll at att.net Wed May 20 10:04:03 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:04:03 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Message-ID: <052020091704.451.4A1438030002E499000001C322230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Nothing major for me aside from the first flight of Sheri's Saturn V (on an I350W). But, amoung the rest that I'm planning: Apogee Saturn V (on a G or maybe H) Estes Saturn V (on a G) Estes 1/70 Saturn 1B (two 24mm cluster - D's or E's) - Did I mention I like Saturns? :-) TLP Nike-Ajax (3-24mm cluster, D's or E's) TLP Pershing (on an E) Estes Patriot (4 - D cluster) North Coast Patriot (on a G) North Coast Bomarc (probably an F) North Coast Interceptor G (on a G of course) Sheri's Little Joe II (on a G) Estes Interceptor E (on an E of course) Estes V2 (on an E or F) And whatever small stuff that I decide to throw in (it's been too long since since I launched). Tim Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou -------------- next part -------------- Nothing major for me aside from the first flight of Sheri's Saturn V (on an I350W). But, amoung the rest that I'm planning: ? Apogee Saturn V (on a G or maybe H) Estes Saturn V (on a G) Estes 1/70 Saturn 1B (two 24mm cluster - D's or E's) - Did I mention I like Saturns? :-)? ? TLP Nike-Ajax (3-24mm cluster, D's or E's) TLP Pershing (on an E) Estes Patriot (4 - D cluster) North Coast Patriot (on a G) North Coast Bomarc (probably an F) North Coast Interceptor G (on a G of course) Sheri's Little Joe II (on a G) Estes Interceptor E (on an E of course) Estes V2 (on an E or F) ? And whatever small stuff that I decide to throw in (it's been too long since since I launched). ? Tim ? ? ? Hello all, Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to rockets!? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew?? The special projects page is quite blank.? I have two flights planned, a K research motor in Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.? I didn't feel they were special enough though. How about the rest of you? Lou From terry at mooreread.com Wed May 20 10:53:37 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:53:37 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] L&I Message-ID: <24039F8B-807E-4611-90AF-9F3487E3BBF6@mooreread.com> To quote Mason at L&I : "A state license has never been required to purchase rocket motors. The only license that the Department will issue is a storage license if you store the motors yourself. If you store your motors in someone elses licensed magazine (State of Washington) you will need no License from the State of Washington for anything." So ... there's no need to produce a license to buy and fly on site. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S. NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or privileged material, and is intended solely for use by the above referenced recipient. Any review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri- bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited. If you are not the recipient, and believe that you have received this in error, please notify the sender and delete the copy you received. Thank You! -------------- next part -------------- To quote Mason at L&I :? "A state license has never been required to purchase rocket motors. ?The only license that the Department will issue is a storage license?if you store the motors yourself.?If you store your motors in someone elses licensed magazine (State of?Washington) you will need no License from the State of Washington?for anything." So ... there's no need to produce a license to buy and fly on site. ?? -- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S. NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or privileged material, and is intended solely for use by the above referenced recipient. Any review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri- bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited. If you are not the recipient, and believe that you have received this in error, please notify the sender and delete the copy you received. Thank You! From appusher at q.com Wed May 20 11:15:39 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:15:39 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] L&I In-Reply-To: <24039F8B-807E-4611-90AF-9F3487E3BBF6@mooreread.com> References: <24039F8B-807E-4611-90AF-9F3487E3BBF6@mooreread.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Terry! I just got off the phone with Mason. I can confirm Terry's post. Individuals purchasing APCP DO NOT need any licenses or permits. The State only requires that the rocket motor propellant is stored properly. The State Regs and US DOT still regulate 1.4 low explosives. Our propellant is in this classification. Further action on our part will be to remove the 1.4 classification from APCP from where ever. So the only issue being storage, I guess sales of APCP will be permit free. I would recommend that purchasers have storage in mind at the time of the sale. It is the users responsibility to store. As a Dealer, we still have to keep records of what we sell and who it goes to.....names address and such. 1 H128 out to Joe Blow @ main street, usa. etc. We would also encourage users to burn purchases onsite unless storage has been pre arranged. More to come, Bill Munds Puget Sound Propulsion EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: terry at mooreread.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:53:37 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] L&I > > To quote Mason at L&I : > > "A state license has never been required to purchase rocket motors. > The only license that the Department will issue is a storage license > if you store the motors yourself. If you store your motors in someone > elses licensed magazine (State of Washington) you will need no License > from the State of Washington for anything." > > So ... there's no need to produce a license to buy and fly on site. > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses > and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S. > > NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or > privileged material, and is intended solely > for use by the above referenced recipient. Any > review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri- > bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the recipient, and believe that > you have received this in error, please notify > the sender and delete the copy you received. > > Thank You! > -------------- next part -------------- Thanks, Terry! I just got off the phone with Mason.? I can confirm Terry's post.? Individuals purchasing APCP DO NOT need any licenses or permits.? The State only requires that the rocket motor propellant is stored properly. The State Regs and US DOT still regulate 1.4 low explosives.? Our propellant is in this classification. ? Further action on our part will be to remove the 1.4 classification from APCP from where ever. ? So the only issue being storage, I guess sales of APCP will be permit free. I would recommend that purchasers have storage in mind at the time of the sale. It is the users responsibility to store. ? As a Dealer, we still have to keep records of what we sell and who it goes to.....names address and such. 1 H128 out to Joe Blow @ main street, usa.? etc. ? We would also encourage users to burn purchases onsite unless storage has been pre arranged. ? More to come, ? Bill Munds Puget Sound Propulsion ? http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: terry at mooreread.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:53:37 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] L&I > > To quote Mason at L&I : > > "A state license has never been required to purchase rocket motors. > The only license that the Department will issue is a storage license > if you store the motors yourself. If you store your motors in someone > elses licensed magazine (State of Washington) you will need no License > from the State of Washington for anything." > > So ... there's no need to produce a license to buy and fly on site. > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses > and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S. > > NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or > privileged material, and is intended solely > for use by the above referenced recipient. Any > review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri- > bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the recipient, and believe that > you have received this in error, please notify > the sender and delete the copy you received. > > Thank You! > From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Wed May 20 12:56:04 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:56:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Last call for FITS Message-ID: <000001c9d985$08fa02d0$1aee0870$@net> Hi everyone. This is the last call for FITS. Folks will be showing up tomorrow to get things ready and I?m getting the waiver activation started in a few minutes. Get your stuff packed, put on that last coat of paint, and make sure your rate sensor units fit correctly. A few folks have asked if we are taking donations for the raffle and the answer is yes. If you have something that you would like to provide send myself or Denny an email. Some last minute reminders: ? Waivers and wrist bands required for everyone. ? VERY IMPORTANT: Tripoli or NAR membership cards required for proof of certification level. ? All the launch duty spots need to be filled for the day before launch operations begin. Go here to sign up: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/default.asp?page=http://www.northwestrocket ry.com/launchsignup.asp. ? Altitudes are 8K at the track and 14K at the away cell. o Complex K, single L, and single M can fly from the racetrack extension o Anything else flies at the away cell ? Friday is research day. This will be held at the Sportsman?s club. o Research motors only. You must be certified Tripoli L2 to fly. o Proof of Tripoli membership is required. ? Consider stocking up at the store in town. Also the Sunflower Caf? will be onsite again selling breakfast, lunch, and dinner. They?ll also be bringing ice. ? Showers available at the high school for $2 per person. ? Sunscreen and hats, sunscreen and hats, sunscreen and hats. ? If you have FRS or FM radios, bring them. ? Come prepared with all the paperwork you may need. NAR certification forms for example. We?ll have some onsite but there is no guarantee there will be enough for everyone. ? Night launch on Saturday, Raffle on Sunday. ? DVD?s for sale -------------- next part -------------- Hi everyone. This is the last call for FITS. Folks will be showing up tomorrow to get things ready and I???m getting the waiver activation started in a few minutes. Get your stuff packed, put on that last coat of paint, and make sure your rate sensor units fit correctly. A few folks have asked if we are taking donations for the raffle and the answer is yes. If you have something that you would like to provide send myself or Denny an email. Some last minute reminders: ? ? ???????? Waivers and wrist bands required for everyone. ? ???????? VERY IMPORTANT: Tripoli or NAR membership cards required for proof of certification level. ? ???????? All the launch duty spots need to be filled for the day before launch operations begin.? Go here to sign up: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/default.asp?page=http://www.northwestrocketry.com/launchsignup.asp. ? ???????? Altitudes are 8K at the track and 14K at the away cell. o ??? Complex K, single L, and single M can fly from the racetrack extension o ??? Anything else flies at the away cell ? ???????? Friday is research day. This will be held at the Sportsman???s club. o ??? Research motors only. You must be certified Tripoli L2 to fly. o ??? Proof of Tripoli membership is required. ? ???????? Consider stocking up at the store in town. Also the Sunflower Caf?? will be onsite again selling breakfast, lunch, and dinner. They???ll also be bringing ice. ? ???????? Showers available at the high school for $2 per person. ? ???????? Sunscreen and hats, sunscreen and hats, sunscreen and hats. ? ???????? If you have FRS or FM radios, bring them. ? ???????? Come prepared with all the paperwork you may need. NAR certification forms for example. We???ll have some onsite but there is no guarantee there will be enough for everyone. ? ???????? Night launch on Saturday, Raffle on Sunday. ? ???????? DVD???s for sale ? From carl at mousetrap.com Wed May 20 13:44:52 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:44:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Level 2 written exams at FITS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you plan to take the NAR level 2 written exam at FITS and have not responded to my original message, please do so before Friday. If I don't hear from you, I may not have enough tests with me and you will be sad. Thanks. - Carl On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > If you plan to take the NAR level 2 written exam at FITS, please send me > email so that I'm sure to have enough tests on hand. Even if you told me in > the recent past that you want to take the test, I would still appreciate a > message as a reminder. > If you plan to take the TRA level 2 written exam, you should probably touch > base with Brad Wright for the same reasons. > > Thanks. > > - Carl > > -------------- next part -------------- Thanks. ?- Carl On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Carl Hamilton < mailto:carl at mousetrap.com carl at mousetrap.com > wrote: If you plan to take the NAR level 2 written exam at FITS, please send me email so that I'm sure to have enough tests on hand. Even if you told me in the recent past that you want to take the test, I would still appreciate a message as a reminder. If you plan to take the TRA level 2 written exam, you should probably touch base with Brad Wright for the same reasons. Thanks. ?- Carl From andrew at psas.pdx.edu Wed May 20 13:52:09 2009 From: andrew at psas.pdx.edu (Andrew Greenberg) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:52:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] GPS coordinates of pad and flight line in Brothers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A146D79.80500@psas.pdx.edu> Hi! We're trying to find decently precise GPS coordinates (+/- 30m) of the flight line and pad at Brothers. Most modern COTS GPS receivers will do +/- 3m, so if you have coordinates from a fairly modern receiver, that's good enough for us. Drop me an email if you have 'em. Thanks! Andrew -- ------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Greenberg Portland State Aerospace Society (http://psas.pdx.edu/) andrew at psas.pdx.edu P: 503.788.1343 C: 503.708.7711 ------------------------------------------------------- From scott at scottsrockets.com Wed May 20 13:58:02 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:58:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] GPS coordinates of pad and flight line in Brothers? In-Reply-To: <4A146D79.80500@psas.pdx.edu> References: <4A146D79.80500@psas.pdx.edu> Message-ID: <610D730208884AD987CD3402E697BAE5@Mobile2> n43.79942 w120.65086 flight line n43.82307 w120.63768 gate off highway Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Greenberg Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:52 PM To: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] GPS coordinates of pad and flight line in Brothers? Hi! We're trying to find decently precise GPS coordinates (+/- 30m) of the flight line and pad at Brothers. Most modern COTS GPS receivers will do +/- 3m, so if you have coordinates from a fairly modern receiver, that's good enough for us. Drop me an email if you have 'em. Thanks! Andrew -- ------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Greenberg Portland State Aerospace Society (http://psas.pdx.edu/) andrew at psas.pdx.edu P: 503.788.1343 C: 503.708.7711 ------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bclugston1 at comcast.net Wed May 20 14:44:05 2009 From: bclugston1 at comcast.net (Bill Clugston) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 14:44:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Flights...imagine that! Message-ID: <6hpya3h8mg6m3a0c0ys7trm7.1242855845529@email.android.com> Hi Tim, You may like Saturns, but I think you like scale even more LOL! Bill C. t.j.doll at att.net wrote: >Nothing major for me aside from the first flight of Sheri's Saturn V (on an I350W). >But, amoung the rest that I'm planning: > >Apogee Saturn V (on a G or maybe H) >Estes Saturn V (on a G) >Estes 1/70 Saturn 1B (two 24mm cluster - D's or E's) >- Did I mention I like Saturns? :-) > >TLP Nike-Ajax (3-24mm cluster, D's or E's) >TLP Pershing (on an E) >Estes Patriot (4 - D cluster) >North Coast Patriot (on a G) >North Coast Bomarc (probably an F) >North Coast Interceptor G (on a G of course) >Sheri's Little Joe II (on a G) >Estes Interceptor E (on an E of course) >Estes V2 (on an E or F) > >And whatever small stuff that I decide to throw in (it's been too long since since I launched). > >Tim > > > > >Hello all, > >Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to >rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special >projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research >motor in >Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough > >though. > >How about the rest of you? > >Lou >Nothing major for me aside from the first flight of Sheri's Saturn V (on an I350W). >But, amoung the rest that I'm planning: >? >Apogee Saturn V (on a G or maybe H) >Estes Saturn V (on a G) >Estes 1/70 Saturn 1B (two 24mm cluster - D's or E's) >- Did I mention I like Saturns? :-)? >? >TLP Nike-Ajax (3-24mm cluster, D's or E's) >TLP Pershing (on an E) >Estes Patriot (4 - D cluster) >North Coast Patriot (on a G) >North Coast Bomarc (probably an F) >North Coast Interceptor G (on a G of course) >Sheri's Little Joe II (on a G) >Estes Interceptor E (on an E of course) >Estes V2 (on an E or F) >? >And whatever small stuff that I decide to throw in (it's been too long since since I launched). >? >Tim >? >? >? >Hello all, >Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to >rockets!? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew?? The special >projects page is quite blank.? I have two flights planned, a K research >motor in >Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.? I didn't feel they were special enough >though. >How about the rest of you? >Lou >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- Hi Tim, You may like Saturns, but I think you like scale even more LOL! Bill C. t.j.doll at att.net wrote: >Nothing major for me aside from the first flight of Sheri's Saturn V (on an I350W). >But, amoung the rest that I'm planning: > >Apogee Saturn V (on a G or maybe H) >Estes Saturn V (on a G) >Estes 1/70 Saturn 1B (two 24mm cluster - D's or E's) >- Did I mention I like Saturns? :-) > >TLP Nike-Ajax (3-24mm cluster, D's or E's) >TLP Pershing (on an E) >Estes Patriot (4 - D cluster) >North Coast Patriot (on a G) >North Coast Bomarc (probably an F) >North Coast Interceptor G (on a G of course) >Sheri's Little Joe II (on a G) >Estes Interceptor E (on an E of course) >Estes V2 (on an E or F) > >And whatever small stuff that I decide to throw in (it's been too long since since I launched). > >Tim > > > > >Hello all, > >Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to >rockets! Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew? The special >projects page is quite blank. I have two flights planned, a K research >motor in >Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel. I didn't feel they were special enough > >though. > >How about the rest of you? > >Lou >Nothing major for me aside from the first flight of Sheri's Saturn V (on an I350W). >But, amoung the rest that I'm planning: >? >Apogee Saturn V (on a G or maybe H) >Estes Saturn V (on a G) >Estes 1/70 Saturn 1B (two 24mm cluster - D's or E's) >- Did I mention I like Saturns? :-)? >? >TLP Nike-Ajax (3-24mm cluster, D's or E's) >TLP Pershing (on an E) >Estes Patriot (4 - D cluster) >North Coast Patriot (on a G) >North Coast Bomarc (probably an F) >North Coast Interceptor G (on a G of course) >Sheri's Little Joe II (on a G) >Estes Interceptor E (on an E of course) >Estes V2 (on an E or F) >? >And whatever small stuff that I decide to throw in (it's been too long since since I launched). >? >Tim >? >? >? >Hello all, >Now that the ruling has been scrutinized to death let's get back to >rockets!? Anybody else flying anything at FITS besides Andrew?? The special >projects page is quite blank.? I have two flights planned, a K research >motor in >Skeletor and a J800T in my Sentinel.? I didn't feel they were special enough >though. >How about the rest of you? >Lou >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Wed May 20 15:02:07 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS Message-ID: Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. -------------- next part -------------- Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. From carl at mousetrap.com Wed May 20 15:12:28 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:12:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am using Greg Clark's suggestions found here: http://www.bigredbee.com/frequencies.htm. My NAR number is 83155, so I am using 430.50MHz. The key is to turn on your receiver first and listen. Don't turn on your transmitter until you are sure that the frequency you are using is clear. - Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- http://www.bigredbee.com/frequencies.htm http://www.bigredbee.com/frequencies.htm . My NAR number is 83155, so I am using 430.50MHz. The key is to turn on your receiver first and listen. Don't turn on your transmitter until you are sure that the frequency you are using is clear. ?- Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Scott Berfield < mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > wrote: Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From jim at jmw29221.com Wed May 20 15:14:35 2009 From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:14:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0fc468c0adb82b48629ff1a166db3d37@mx1.blastzone.com> I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 Regards Jim On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" wrote: > Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. From whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:17:10 2009 From: whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com (Dietrich Podmajersky) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:17:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS In-Reply-To: <0fc468c0adb82b48629ff1a166db3d37@mx1.blastzone.com> References: <0fc468c0adb82b48629ff1a166db3d37@mx1.blastzone.com> Message-ID: I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet. The silly thing is still set to the default. -Dietrich On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, wrote: > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > > Regards > Jim > > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" > wrote: > > Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > > will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet.? The silly thing is still set to the default.? ? -Dietrich On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, < mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > wrote: I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 Regards Jim On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > wrote: > Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Wed May 20 15:21:26 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 22:21:26 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Communication Blackout Message-ID: Sorry. Not the Same as a Bailout. We are going offline until Tuesday followiing FITS. In an emrgency, we can be contacted at 206.335.0196. Signal at the Sportsman's Club if iffy, but somewhere there it works. Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- Sorry.? Not the Same as a Bailout. ? We are going offline until Tuesday followiing FITS. In an emrgency, we can be contacted at 206.335.0196. Signal at the Sportsman's Club if iffy, but somewhere there it works. ? mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From bigredbee at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:27:49 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:27:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS In-Reply-To: References: <0fc468c0adb82b48629ff1a166db3d37@mx1.blastzone.com> Message-ID: ya -- it might be a busy day for 433.92 ;) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky wrote: > I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet.? The silly thing is still set to the default. > > -Dietrich > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, > < mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com >> > wrote: > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > Regards > Jim > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com >> > wrote: >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Wed May 20 15:42:54 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:42:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline GPS? Message-ID: I talked to Greg about this over the past weekend, I have a Beeline GPS that I got from Greg, that I have not used. Thinking of selling it, so wondering if there is any interest? If so, I can bring it to FITS. Had some interest in our local BORG, but if someone really wants a fantastic unit, I can be convince to sell it. Just so you know why I am parting with it, as many of you know, I have been unable to fly anything over the past couple of years with much altitude, so don't have much need, plus our local club has a Beeline I can use. I hate to have something sitting around not being used, and I know I can get another from Greg when I ready with my L3 project. Anyway, let me know off list...... and I will toss it in my stuff.... Enjoy, Bob From whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:40:47 2009 From: whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com (Dietrich Podmajersky) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:40:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS In-Reply-To: References: <0fc468c0adb82b48629ff1a166db3d37@mx1.blastzone.com> Message-ID: So if I go with the info Carl pointed to on the BRB site... my NAR# is 88459.. so looks like I will be using 430.900... Now I just need to remember that when I go to set it. :) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Greg Clark wrote: > ya -- it might be a busy day for 433.92 ;) > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky > wrote: > > I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet. The silly > thing is still set to the default. > > > > -Dietrich > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, > > < mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > >> > > wrote: > > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > > Regards > > Jim > > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto: > sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > >> > > wrote: > >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- So if I go with the info Carl pointed to on the BRB site... my?NAR# is 88459.. so?looks like I will be using 430.900... ? Now I just need to remember that when I go to set it. :) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Greg Clark < mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > wrote: ya -- it might be a busy day for 433.92 ;) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky < mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com > wrote: > I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet.? The silly thing is still set to the default. > > -Dietrich > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, > < mailto: mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com >> > wrote: > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > Regards > Jim > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto: mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com >> > wrote: >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From carl at mousetrap.com Wed May 20 15:45:30 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:45:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS In-Reply-To: References: <0fc468c0adb82b48629ff1a166db3d37@mx1.blastzone.com> Message-ID: FWIW, my call sign is KD7ZUZ. If that is showing up in APRS packets on the frequency you are using, come find me. - Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky < whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com> wrote: > So if I go with the info Carl pointed to on the BRB site... my NAR# is > 88459.. so looks like I will be using 430.900... > > Now I just need to remember that when I go to set it. :) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Greg Clark > < mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > > > wrote: > ya -- it might be a busy day for 433.92 ;) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky > < mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com > > wrote: > > I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet. The silly > thing is still set to the default. > > > > -Dietrich > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, > > < mailto: mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > >> > > wrote: > > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > > Regards > > Jim > > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto: mailto: > sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > >> > > wrote: > >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- ?- Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky < mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com > wrote: So if I go with the info Carl pointed to on the BRB site... my?NAR# is 88459.. so?looks like I will be using 430.900... ? Now I just need to remember that when I go to set it. :) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Greg Clark < mailto: mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > wrote: ya -- it might be a busy day for 433.92 ;) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky < mailto: mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com > wrote: > I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet.? The silly thing is still set to the default. > > -Dietrich > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, > < mailto: mailto: mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com mailto: mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com >> > wrote: > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > Regards > Jim > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto: mailto: mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com mailto: mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com >> > wrote: >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto: mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From dennys at carnitech.net Wed May 20 15:56:34 2009 From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:56:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS References: <0fc468c0adb82b48629ff1a166db3d37@mx1.blastzone.com> Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051027EDAA@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> I'm using 435.420 (KE7QNO) -Denny ________________________________ From: Carl Hamilton [mailto:carl at mousetrap.com] Sent: Wed 5/20/2009 3:45 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS FWIW, my call sign is KD7ZUZ. If that is showing up in APRS packets on the frequency you are using, come find me. - Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky < whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com> wrote: > So if I go with the info Carl pointed to on the BRB site... my NAR# is > 88459.. so looks like I will be using 430.900... > > Now I just need to remember that when I go to set it. :) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Greg Clark > < mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > > > wrote: > ya -- it might be a busy day for 433.92 ;) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky > < mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com > > wrote: > > I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet. The silly > thing is still set to the default. > > > > -Dietrich > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, > > < mailto: mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > >> > > wrote: > > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > > Regards > > Jim > > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto: mailto: > sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > >> > > wrote: > >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- Re: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS I'm using 435.420? (KE7QNO) ? -Denny From: Carl Hamilton [mailto:carl at mousetrap.com] Sent: Wed 5/20/2009 3:45 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS FWIW, my call sign is KD7ZUZ. If that is showing up in APRS packets on the frequency you are using, come find me. ?- Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky < whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com> wrote: > So if I go with the info Carl pointed to on the BRB site... my NAR# is > 88459.. so looks like I will be using 430.900... > > Now I just need to remember that when I go to set it. :) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Greg Clark > < mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > > > wrote: > ya -- it might be a busy day for 433.92 ;) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky > < mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com > > wrote: > > I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet.? The silly > thing is still set to the default. > > > > -Dietrich > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, > > < mailto: mailto:jim at jmw29221.com mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > mailto:jim at jmw29221.com mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > >> > > wrote: > > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > > Regards > > Jim > > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto: mailto: > sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > mailto:sb at berfield.com mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > >> > > wrote: > >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From willey at selby.com Wed May 20 16:26:50 2009 From: willey at selby.com (Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:26:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CCE1B37-D9B3-4198-A4E6-60BDE4C01075@selby.com> mine's on 428.7Mhz KD7GXO. steve On May 20, 2009, at 3:12 PM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > http://www.bigredbee.com/frequencies.htm http://www.bigredbee.com/frequencies.htm > . My NAR number is 83155, so I am using 430.50MHz. The key is to > turn on your receiver first and listen. Don't turn on your > transmitter until you are sure that the frequency you are using is > clear. > - Carl > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Scott Berfield > < mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com >> > wrote: > Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what > frequencies will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping > on anyone. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Wed May 20 18:32:46 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 01:32:46 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm metal forward seal disc Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990E151A@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> so apparently they(AT) changed even the 98mm's to need the metal forward seal disc. I've got an L1300 that now needs it where it didn't last year. Does anyone have one to loan???? -------------- next part -------------- ? ? so apparently they (AT) changed even the 98mm's to need the metal forward seal disc.? I've got an L1300 that now needs it where it didn't last year.?? Do es anyone have one to loan? ??? ? From robert.krausert at intel.com Wed May 20 18:49:56 2009 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 18:49:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm metal forward seal disc In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990E151A@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990E151A@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E3909C14B@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Where do you live? I have one. But in Forest Grove OR -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:33 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm metal forward seal disc Importance: High so apparently they(AT) changed even the 98mm's to need the metal forward seal disc. I've got an L1300 that now needs it where it didn't last year. Does anyone have one to loan???? From bclugston1 at comcast.net Wed May 20 20:54:28 2009 From: bclugston1 at comcast.net (William Clugston) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 20:54:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Are we planning on a FITS pot luck feast? Message-ID: <4AB15C83-0E03-4BD7-83B9-373F3C742916@comcast.net> Just want to know what I should stuff into the RV's fridge. Bill Clugston bclugston1 at comcast.net http://www.earthskystars.net (Rocketry and Astronomy) From sb at berfield.com Wed May 20 21:01:05 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 04:01:05 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS Message-ID: OK -- I'm setting mine to 425.20. -----Original Message----- From: Denny Smith [mailto:dennys at carnitech.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 03:56 PM To: 'Carl Hamilton', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS I'm using 435.420 (KE7QNO) -Denny ________________________________ From: Carl Hamilton [mailto:carl at mousetrap.com] Sent: Wed 5/20/2009 3:45 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS FWIW, my call sign is KD7ZUZ. If that is showing up in APRS packets on the frequency you are using, come find me. - Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky < whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com> wrote: > So if I go with the info Carl pointed to on the BRB site... my NAR# is > 88459.. so looks like I will be using 430.900... > > Now I just need to remember that when I go to set it. :) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Greg Clark > < mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > > > wrote: > ya -- it might be a busy day for 433.92 ;) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky > < mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com > > wrote: > > I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet. The silly > thing is still set to the default. > > > > -Dietrich > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, > > < mailto: mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > >> > > wrote: > > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > > Regards > > Jim > > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto: mailto: > sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > >> > > wrote: > >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- OK -- I'm setting mine to 425.20. ? ? -----Original Message----- From: Denny Smith [mailto:dennys at carnitech.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 03:56 PM To: 'Carl Hamilton', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS I'm using 435.420 (KE7QNO) -Denny ________________________________ From: Carl Hamilton [mailto:carl at mousetrap.com] Sent: Wed 5/20/2009 3:45 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS FWIW, my call sign is KD7ZUZ. If that is showing up in APRS packets on the frequency you are using, come find me. - Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky < whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com> wrote: > So if I go with the info Carl pointed to on the BRB site... my NAR# is > 88459.. so looks like I will be using 430.900... > > Now I just need to remember that when I go to set it. :) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Greg Clark > < mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > > > wrote: > ya -- it might be a busy day for 433.92 ;) > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Dietrich Podmajersky > < mailto:whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com > > wrote: > > I have one 70cm transmitter, but haven't picked a freq yet. The silly > thing is still set to the default. > > > > -Dietrich > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM, > > < mailto: mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > mailto:jim at jmw29221.com jim at jmw29221.com > >> > > wrote: > > I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 > > Regards > > Jim > > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:02:07 +0000, "Scott Berfield" < mailto: mailto: > sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > >> > > wrote: > >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed May 20 21:39:42 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:39:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Message to Tsolo Message-ID: <8ADE1DB326B843E7BE532B03E420D6A5@LaptopKrausert> BAT was found and is in the OROC trailer. See you in June. Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- BAT was found and is in the OROC trailer. See you in June. ? Cheers, Robert From bar0051 at homenetnw.net Wed May 20 22:21:16 2009 From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 22:21:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS References: Message-ID: <0E05FDBD13B444A4B321D84897ED9290@MEDIONDeskTop> Mine is set for 433.90 Mhz Bryon Schopp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:02 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS > Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From carl at mousetrap.com Thu May 21 07:26:36 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 07:26:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS weather Message-ID: Did anybody else notice that the weekend's forecast for Mansfield went from partly cloudy to completely clear? Hourly wind predictions at Weather Underground are 6mph and below for the entire weekend! Along with unregulated AP, what could be better? - Carl -------------- next part -------------- ?- Carl From carl at mousetrap.com Thu May 21 08:23:52 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:23:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Last call for FITS In-Reply-To: <000001c9d985$08fa02d0$1aee0870$@net> References: <000001c9d985$08fa02d0$1aee0870$@net> Message-ID: Please note that the ceiling for launches from the track has been reduced to 8,000' AGL this year for safety reasons. If you have a flight that will approach this altitude, and you don't want to be sent to the away cell, please come with documentation indicating that you will stay below the 8K limit. Thanks. - Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:56 PM, mikeandkimwyvel < mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net> wrote: > Hi everyone. This is the last call for FITS. Folks will be showing up > tomorrow to get things ready and I???m getting the waiver activation started > in a few minutes. Get your stuff packed, put on that last coat of paint, and > make sure your rate sensor units fit correctly. A few folks have asked if we > are taking donations for the raffle and the answer is yes. If you have > something that you would like to provide send myself or Denny an email. Some > last minute reminders: > > > Altitudes are 8K at the track and 14K at the away cell. > > Complex K, single L, and single M can fly from the racetrack extension > > Anything else flies at the away cell > -------------- next part -------------- Thanks. ?- Carl On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:56 PM, mikeandkimwyvel < mailto:mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net > wrote: Hi everyone. This is the last call for FITS. Folks will be showing up tomorrow to get things ready and I???m getting the waiver activation started in a few minutes. Get your stuff packed, put on that last coat of paint, and make sure your rate sensor units fit correctly. A few folks have asked if we are taking donations for the raffle and the answer is yes. If you have something that you would like to provide send myself or Denny an email. Some last minute reminders: ? ???????? Altitudes are 8K at the track and 14K at the away cell. ??? Complex K, single L, and single M can fly from the racetrack extension ??? Anything else flies at the away cell From george at rachors.com Thu May 21 08:39:09 2009 From: george at rachors.com (George L. Rachor Jr.) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Message to Tsolo In-Reply-To: <8ADE1DB326B843E7BE532B03E420D6A5@LaptopKrausert> References: <8ADE1DB326B843E7BE532B03E420D6A5@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <20090521083856.C40773@racsys.rachors.com> EEK... Baseball or living? George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Wed, 20 May 2009, Robert Krausert wrote: > BAT was found and is in the OROC trailer. See you in June. > > Cheers, > Robert From michael at garvais.net Thu May 21 09:15:59 2009 From: michael at garvais.net (michael at garvais.net) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:15:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS In-Reply-To: <0E05FDBD13B444A4B321D84897ED9290@MEDIONDeskTop> References: <0E05FDBD13B444A4B321D84897ED9290@MEDIONDeskTop> Message-ID: <5805a09794c4db5be72a4daa9194b9cd@localhost> Cleaning up this thread a bit to help find an open frequency. This is what we have so far: Bryon Schopp - Mine is set for 433.90 Mhz Scott Berfield - -- I'm setting mine to 425.20 Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats - -- mine's on 428.7Mhz KD7GXO. Denny Smith - I'm using 435.420 (KE7QNO) Dietrich Podmajersky - my NAR# is 88459.. so looks like I will be using 430.900... Jim - jim at jimw29221.com - I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and 435.9 Carl Hamilton - My NAR number is 83155, so I am using 430.50MHz. Michael Garvais - I'll set mine to... 425.7 KE7VQk On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:21:16 -0700, "Bryon Schopp" wrote: > Mine is set for 433.90 Mhz > > Bryon Schopp > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Berfield" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:02 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS > > >> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies >> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bigredbee at gmail.com Thu May 21 10:12:38 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:12:38 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS In-Reply-To: <5805a09794c4db5be72a4daa9194b9cd@localhost> References: <0E05FDBD13B444A4B321D84897ED9290@MEDIONDeskTop> <5805a09794c4db5be72a4daa9194b9cd@localhost> Message-ID: you need a big whiteboard at the launch! On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:15 AM, wrote: > > > > Cleaning up this thread a bit to help find an open frequency. ?This is what > we have so far: > > > Bryon Schopp ?- Mine is set for 433.90 Mhz > > Scott Berfield - ?-- I'm setting mine to 425.20 > > Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats - ?-- mine's on 428.7Mhz ? ? KD7GXO. > > Denny Smith ?- ?I'm using 435.420 ?(KE7QNO) > > Dietrich Podmajersky - ?my NAR# is 88459.. so looks like I will be using > 430.900... > > Jim - ?jim at jimw29221.com ? - ?I'll have two xmtrs; currently on 434.1 and > 435.9 > > Carl Hamilton ? - My NAR number is 83155, so I am using 430.50MHz. > > Michael Garvais - I'll set mine to... ?425.7 ? ? KE7VQk > > > > On Wed, 20 May 2009 22:21:16 -0700, "Bryon Schopp" > wrote: >> Mine is set for 433.90 Mhz >> >> Bryon Schopp >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott Berfield" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:02 PM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Beeline frequencies at FITS >> >> >>> Who all is using Beeline (or similar) units at FITS and what frequencies > >>> will you be using? I want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone. >>> >>> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From blakbird11 at comcast.net Thu May 21 10:18:11 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:18:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Help me Obiwan Kenobi, you're my only hope In-Reply-To: <1028327756.11698311242926078243.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1414272426.11700301242926291641.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Those of you who know me will no doubt find the following very shocking but, due to unforeseen circumstances, I am having trouble coming up with something to fly at FITS. My beautiful Black Brant X is lying out in the garage and certainly springs to mind except that, like a moron, I built it with the CPR-3000 deployment system which I set up only to work with the Altacc altimeter. I fried my Altacc a couple of years ago by connecting the battery backwards, so now I have a beautiful Black Brant paperweight. I know that Blacksky has been defunct for quite some time now, but would there happen to be anyone out there who still has a functioning Altacc and, more importantly, would be willing to let me use it? I can offer nothing in return except the satisfaction of seeing a cool launch. In the unlikely event of multiple offers, I pledge to launch my Black Brant once for each Altacc available! Here's some eye candy to sweeten the deal: http://www.ericalbrecht.com/rockets/Database/source/pml_black_brant_x.html http://www.ericalbrecht.com/rockets/FITS_2005/source/black_brant_x_4.html Eric Albrecht -------------- next part -------------- Those of you who know me will no doubt find the following very shocking but, due to unforeseen circumstances, I am having trouble coming up with something to fly at FITS.? My beautiful Black Brant X is lying out in the garage and certainly springs to mind except that, like a moron, I built it with the CPR-3000 deployment system which I set up only to work with the Altacc altimeter.? I fried my Altacc a couple of years ago by connecting the battery backwards, so now I have a beautiful Black Brant paperweight.? I know that Blacksky has been defunct for quite some time now, but would there happen to be anyone out there who still has a functioning Altacc and, more importantly, would be willing to let me use it?? I can offer nothing in return except the satisfaction of seeing a cool launch. In the unlikely event of multiple offers, I pledge to launch my Black Brant once for each Altacc available! Here's some eye candy to sweeten the deal: http://www.ericalbrecht.com/rockets/Database/source/pml_black_brant_x.html http://www.ericalbrecht.com/rockets/FITS_2005/source/black_brant_x_4.html Eric Albrecht From greg at blastzone.com Thu May 21 10:21:53 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:21:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Help me Obiwan Kenobi, you're my only hope In-Reply-To: <1414272426.11700301242926291641.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1028327756.11698311242926078243.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1414272426.11700301242926291641.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <42c201c9da38$a2b42af0$e81c80d0$@com> I've got a couple altaccs, but you'd have to come to bonney lake to get one. I'm not able to make it to fits. The ARTS have the same mounting points as the altacc's, have you tried one of those? Or is it because of the good 'ol arming screw on the altacc that you're locked in? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:18 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Help me Obiwan Kenobi, you're my only hope > > Those of you who know me will no doubt find the following very shocking but, > due to unforeseen circumstances, I am having trouble coming up with something > to fly at FITS. My beautiful Black Brant X is lying out in the garage and > certainly springs to mind except that, like a moron, I built it with the CPR- > 3000 deployment system which I set up only to work with the Altacc altimeter. > I fried my Altacc a couple of years ago by connecting the battery backwards, > so now I have a beautiful Black Brant paperweight. I know that Blacksky has > been defunct for quite some time now, but would there happen to be anyone out > there who still has a functioning Altacc and, more importantly, would be > willing to let me use it? I can offer nothing in return except the > satisfaction of seeing a cool launch. > > In the unlikely event of multiple offers, I pledge to launch my Black Brant > once for each Altacc available! > > Here's some eye candy to sweeten the deal: > http://www.ericalbrecht.com/rockets/Database/source/pml_black_brant_x.html > http://www.ericalbrecht.com/rockets/FITS_2005/source/black_brant_x_4.html > > Eric Albrecht From jhadv at pacifier.com Thu May 21 12:10:14 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:10:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Last call for FITS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090521120611.00bd7b80@mail.iinet.com> >"Please note that the ceiling for launches from the track has been reduced >to 8,000' AGL this year for safety reasons. If you have a flight that >will approach this altitude, and you don't want to be sent to the away >cell, please come with documentation indicating that you will stay below >the 8K limit. Thanks. - Carl Carl; Can you elaborate on the "safety reasons?" Can't be motor size as a heavy rocket with a large motor can still stay under 8,000, so theoretically one could launch something as large as an M or an N from the primary cell. So what are the reasons? I don't fully understand. Also what's the waiver from the away cell? Thank you in advance. From jhadv at pacifier.com Thu May 21 12:42:39 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:42:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Last call for FITS In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40905211236g5de4fd29t79de7b35c62b676@mail.gmail.com > References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090521120611.00bd7b80@mail.iinet.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20090521120611.00bd7b80@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090521123942.00c57aa8@mail.iinet.com> At 12:36 PM 5/21/2009 -0700, you wrote: >Not sure if Carl is gone yet or not, but at the last WAC meeting, my >understanding was lowering the waiver for the track was due to the >frequency with which high(er) altitude rockets ended up going East >into city limits. > >Dave Thank you Dave. That would be a very good reason indeed. Prevailing winds, wind-cocking birds and an insufficient number of dual deployment designs can gang up on you and do that. From blakbird11 at comcast.net Thu May 21 12:44:30 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 19:44:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Help me Obiwan Kenobi, you're my only hope In-Reply-To: <1529512029.11770161242935056499.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <788214610.11770251242935070185.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Bonney Lake is a very long way from here, but it is a very nice day and I have a motorcycle. I am considering this carefully...... I haven't flown the Black Brant in a couple of years so I can't remember all of the reasons I'm locked in. One is the mounting points and form factor. Obviously it has to fit onto the ejection charge mounts and into the CPR-3000 altimeter tube. There is also an external slide switch for arming, but I the Altacc doesn't actually use this. Instead you go in through a vent hole with a little screwdriver to arm it. So I guess theoretically an ARTS could work though I have no experience with it. Since I don't have one of those either I'd still be looking for a donor. Eric ----- "Greg Deputy" wrote: > I've got a couple altaccs, but you'd have to come to bonney lake to get one. I'm not able to make it to fits. > > The ARTS have the same mounting points as the altacc's, have you tried one of those? Or is it because of the good 'ol arming screw on the altacc that you're locked in? > -------------- next part -------------- Bonney Lake is a very long way from here, but it is a very nice day and I have a motorcycle.? I am considering this carefully...... I haven't flown the Black Brant in a couple of years so I can't remember all of the reasons I'm locked in.? One is the mounting points and form factor.? Obviously it has to fit onto the ejection charge mounts and into the CPR-3000 altimeter tube.? There is also an external slide switch for arming, but I the Altacc doesn't actually use this.? Instead you go in through a vent hole with a little screwdriver to arm it.? So I guess theoretically an ARTS could work though I have no experience with it.? Since I don't have one of those either I'd still be looking for a donor. Eric ----- "Greg Deputy" wrote: > I've got a couple altaccs, but you'd have to come to bonney lake to get one. ?I'm not able to make it to fits. > > The ARTS have the same mounting points as the altacc's, have you tried one of those? ?Or is it because of the good 'ol arming screw on the altacc that you're locked in? > From dmrandall at gmail.com Thu May 21 12:58:25 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:58:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Last call for FITS In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090521120611.00bd7b80@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090521120611.00bd7b80@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905211258n49420f1brd65d71e7cdab23ab@mail.gmail.com> Not sure if Carl is already on the road, but if I remember correctly from the last WAC meeting, this is due to the frequency with which the high(er) altitude rockets head east towards or into the city of Mansfield. Going to the away cell for the higher altitude flights gives us the extra margin that seems to be needed based on past year's experience. Dave On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > >>"Please note that the ceiling for launches from the track has been reduced >>to 8,000' AGL this year for safety reasons. ?If you have a flight that >>will approach this altitude, and you don't want to be sent to the away >>cell, please come with documentation indicating that you will stay below >>the 8K limit. ?Thanks. ?- Carl > > > Carl; > ? ? ? ? Can you elaborate on the "safety reasons?" ?Can't be motor size as > a heavy rocket with a large motor can still stay under 8,000, so > theoretically one could launch something as large as an M or an N from the > primary cell. ?So what are the reasons? ?I don't fully understand. ?Also > what's the waiver from the away cell? ?Thank you in advance. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Thu May 21 13:30:11 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 20:30:11 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Last call for FITS In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40905211258n49420f1brd65d71e7cdab23ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090521120611.00bd7b80@mail.iinet.com> <6bc920e40905211258n49420f1brd65d71e7cdab23ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990E28F4@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> The away cell has a limit of 14,000'. Both of these have to do with the proximity to town, the school and an occupied house. b -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:58 PM To: Paul Bogdanich Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Last call for FITS Not sure if Carl is already on the road, but if I remember correctly from the last WAC meeting, this is due to the frequency with which the high(er) altitude rockets head east towards or into the city of Mansfield. Going to the away cell for the higher altitude flights gives us the extra margin that seems to be needed based on past year's experience. Dave On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > >>"Please note that the ceiling for launches from the track has been reduced >>to 8,000' AGL this year for safety reasons. If you have a flight that >>will approach this altitude, and you don't want to be sent to the away >>cell, please come with documentation indicating that you will stay below >>the 8K limit. Thanks. - Carl > > > Carl; > Can you elaborate on the "safety reasons?" Can't be motor size as > a heavy rocket with a large motor can still stay under 8,000, so > theoretically one could launch something as large as an M or an N from the > primary cell. So what are the reasons? I don't fully understand. Also > what's the waiver from the away cell? Thank you in advance. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Thu May 21 14:05:51 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:05:51 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Hitting the Road in 30mins!!!! Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990E296D@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> 9 rockets take up a lot of space in the truck!!! see everyone there shortly! Brad, Red, Core and friend! -------------- next part -------------- 9 rockets take up a lot of space in the truck!!!?? ? see everyone there shortly! ? Brad, Red, Core and friend! ? From steve at bestmortgage.com Fri May 22 12:44:49 2009 From: steve at bestmortgage.com (Steve Tytler) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:44:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Going to FITS for ONE day only - need advice Message-ID: <01d301c9db15$c7181450$6501a8c0@HDNW1> I have been out of the rocket loop for a LONG time, but with the weather nice and nothing else planned for the weekend, I am thinking about pulling my old rockets out of the garage and driving over to Mansfield for one day. My wife doesn't want to camp out, so we would drive over and back the same day (uggh!) What would be the best day to go if we only go for ONE day? What time does the launch start and end each day? Does anybody know the approximate driving time to Mansfield from Bellevue? Thanks for any advice you can give me! Steve Tytler, Bellevue -------------- next part -------------- ? I have been out of the rocket loop for a?LONG time, but with the weather nice and nothing else planned for the weekend, I am thinking about pulling my old rockets out of the garage and driving over to Mansfield for one day.?? ? My wife doesn't want to camp out, so we would drive over and back the same day (uggh!) ? What?would be the best day to go?if we only go for ONE day? ? What time does the launch start and end each day? ? Does anybody know the approximate?driving time to Mansfield from Bellevue? ? Thanks for any advice you can give me! ? Steve Tytler, Bellevue ? ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri May 22 12:58:16 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:58:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] May launch stats References: <7BE37706-2A17-4281-BC7B-D49D606BEA9F@verizon.net> Message-ID: <9CFE313CBAB74FA3ABE484C10DBDDF0F@LaptopKrausert> Gary, Thank you very much for the stats. All, Saturday and Sunday account for 20 hours of flight time, which equates to 1 rocket every 4 minutes sustained. I'm going to call that a busy May. Sheridan '08 was 1 rocket every 2 minutes. Thank you to everyone that helped make this event a huge success. From clean porta potties, that had no new bullet holes in them to hauling the trailer to setup/tear down to on site duties. Truly impressed and greatful. Bring on June. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Goncher" To: Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:17 PM Subject: [OROC Members] May launch stats > The May Brothers launch was one of the best I've seen, both in terms > of the weather and participation. The weather both Saturday and > Sunday was beautiful - sunny, no clouds, and very little wind. The > flight line was nearly full, with plenty of kids launching a lot of > rockets (it helped that there was an entire scout troop there!). > > Over the weekend a total of 303 flight cards were filled out: 7 > Friday, 214 Saturday, and 82 Sunday. The flights broke down into 165 > low power (A-D), 90 mid power (E-G), and 36 high power (H-L). The > chart below shows the complete breakdown in terms of motor size over > the three days. > > Lets hope for even better weather in June! > > Gary Goncher > OROC Secretary > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > From blakbird11 at comcast.net Fri May 22 13:00:25 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:00:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Going to FITS for ONE day only - need advice In-Reply-To: <01d301c9db15$c7181450$6501a8c0@HDNW1> References: <01d301c9db15$c7181450$6501a8c0@HDNW1> Message-ID: <60DE7C10-0A7C-442B-B9D4-BE131FDCC62F@comcast.net> If yo are only going for one day, Saturday for instance, then traffic shouldn't be too bad. It should take you 3-4 hours. Personally, I recommend Hwy 2 although you could also take I-90 and then over Blewitt Pass. They take about the same amount of time. Officially I think the launch starts at 8:00, but practically it starts when people drag their lazy butts out of bed and have breakfast. Launching usually continues until sundown, or even later when there's a night launch. See you there! Eric On May 22, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Steve Tytler wrote: > > I have been out of the rocket loop for a LONG time, > but with the weather nice and nothing else planned > for the weekend, I am thinking about pulling my > old rockets out of the garage and driving over > to Mansfield for one day. > > My wife doesn't want to camp out, so we would > drive over and back the same day (uggh!) > > What would be the best day to go if we only go for ONE > day? > > What time does the launch start and end each day? > > Does anybody know the approximate driving time to Mansfield > from Bellevue? > > Thanks for any advice you can give me! > > Steve Tytler, Bellevue > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat May 23 17:51:49 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] May launch stats In-Reply-To: <7BE37706-2A17-4281-BC7B-D49D606BEA9F@verizon.net> References: <7BE37706-2A17-4281-BC7B-D49D606BEA9F@verizon.net> Message-ID: <203bf6b0fb124daf53879f80430e5fae.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Pretty much the same bimodal distribution typical of OROC(and most NW) launches with peaks at C and G. Documented to death in the past by yours truly. It'll be interesting to see if the high power 'bump' fills out more above G now that ATF is out of the way. I looked for a change there after Easy Access went away and didn't find anything concrete. It's possible the economy will dampen any rush to high power and not much change will occur once again. It's just killing me to be missing these launches in this weather. :-( Gardens before firewood, firewood before rockets, never enough of either one. Darn priorities... +McG+ > The May Brothers launch was one of the best I've seen, both in terms > of the weather and participation. The weather both Saturday and > Sunday was beautiful - sunny, no clouds, and very little wind. The > flight line was nearly full, with plenty of kids launching a lot of > rockets (it helped that there was an entire scout troop there!). > > Over the weekend a total of 303 flight cards were filled out: 7 > Friday, 214 Saturday, and 82 Sunday. The flights broke down into 165 > low power (A-D), 90 mid power (E-G), and 36 high power (H-L). The > chart below shows the complete breakdown in terms of motor size over > the three days. > > Lets hope for even better weather in June! > > Gary Goncher > OROC Secretary > > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > From jhadv at pacifier.com Sun May 24 12:59:26 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 12:59:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] BROTHERS LAUNCH STATS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090524125339.00bd0c58@mail.iinet.com> At 12:00 PM 5/24/2009 -0700, you wrote: >It's possible the economy will dampen any rush to high power and not much >change will occur once again. In particular I was rather surprised by the relative lack of I and J motors launched at Brothers in May. Some of the regulars for a launch like that such as Steve or Fred and the old hands like that were not there so maybe that was the difference. Even so as near as I can tell only 4 Js on Saturday and 3 on Sunday for a total of 7 and for the I motors I count 5 and 4 for a total of 9. I thought there would have been more given the weather and the fact that it was the first opportunity of the year to test the results of the Winter construction. Maybe in June. All that aside it was a great launch and a great weekend. A lot of fun. From bigredbee at gmail.com Sun May 24 18:39:03 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 18:39:03 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS??? Message-ID: What's goin' on (or should I say up) at FITS??? -- Greg From larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com Sun May 24 19:11:19 2009 From: larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com (Larry Colvin) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 19:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS??? Message-ID: <406856.57338.qm@web50206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I bet it's a feeding frenzy on Sunriver Bob's newly unregulated high power reloads. ? Larry --- On Sun, 5/24/09, Greg Clark wrote: From: Greg Clark Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS??? To: "rockets at rocketsnw.com" Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 6:39 PM What's goin' on (or should I say up)? at FITS??? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- I bet it's a feeding frenzy on Sunriver Bob's newly unregulated high power reloads. ? Larry --- On Sun, 5/24/09, Greg Clark wrote: From: Greg Clark Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS??? To: "rockets at rocketsnw.com" Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 6:39 PM What's goin' on (or should I say up)? at FITS??? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From rcdm at outlawnet.com Sun May 24 19:40:51 2009 From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 19:40:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS??? References: <406856.57338.qm@web50206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah, sure is quiet. Guess any right thinking persons are at FITS. Just to show solidarity I launched a few rockets Saturday morning. Nothing larger than a G64. Might even go out again tomorrow morning. Rod M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Colvin To: rockets at rocketsnw.com ; Greg Clark Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS??? I bet it's a feeding frenzy on Sunriver Bob's newly unregulated high power reloads. Larry --- On Sun, 5/24/09, Greg Clark wrote: From: Greg Clark Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS??? To: "rockets at rocketsnw.com" Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 6:39 PM What's goin' on (or should I say up) at FITS??? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Yeah, sure is quiet. Guess any right thinking persons are at FITS. ? Just to show solidarity I launched a few rockets Saturday morning. Nothing larger than a G64. Might even go out again tomorrow morning. ? Rod M. ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:larrycolvin121 at yahoo.com Larry Colvin To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com ; mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com Greg Clark Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS??? I bet it's a feeding frenzy on Sunriver Bob's newly unregulated high power reloads. Larry --- On Sun, 5/24/09, Greg Clark < mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > wrote: From: Greg Clark < mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS??? To: " mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com " < mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 6:39 PM What's goin' on (or should I say up) at FITS??? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From absworld at cet.com Mon May 25 09:35:58 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 09:35:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] partial FITS report Message-ID: <006401c9dd56$e2173ef0$a645bcd0$@com> Unfortunately, I ?got? to come home Sunday evening so missed out on everything since 1715 (shortly after John Hawkins Mars Snooper flew). I arrived mid afternoon Thursday just after Tsolo and just before Vern Knowles to a sparsely set up camp area. Took my time getting set up and watched a steady procession of arrivals resulting in a full camp area by sunset. Friday was research day and as typical, activity was sporadic with multiple spectacular flights. My big tower went 0-2 for the day but neither were the fault of the tower. First my L3 rocket suffered a CATO several seconds into flight destroying everything except the main chute and electronics, then Denny Smith had recovery issues and landed hard. Later in the afternoon I flew my 38mm rocket on a 6 grain I-222 for a nominal flight. By the time the waiver closed a full crowd had assembled turning the camping area into a mini-town with folks continuing to arrive. Mansfield mayor Tom Snell opened the high school and for $2 you got a hot shower and a new lease on life. We were treated to spectacular ISS passes every night. Bedtime came early when ?Red? took control of the fire and said ?no more wood?. I don?t recall too many complaints as there were nodding eyes all around. Saturday morning brought the official start of FITS with a large crowd at the fliers meeting and a tad more breeze than desirable. As a result of the wind, morning activity was light but by noon there was a line at the LCO table that continued through the 1800 close of waiver. I?m clueless how many flights took place but the wait in line was longer than comfortable if you were in it. Rockets of all descriptions took to the air continuously. The Sunflower caf? was on hand all weekend serving a full menu of great home cooked food. Vern Knowles flew Kate several times and she (? It ?) was creepy cool and crystal clear on the PA. I can?t wait to see how Vern tops this addition to his rocket fleet. I managed to stay busy/distracted/entertained all day but did get in a flight just before close of waiver with my L2 rocket and a J350 push for a good flight. Unfortunately I missed out on the group photo opportunity as I was out on recovery. A planned community meal blossomed into a full blown pot luck with good food, good company, and lots of sun drenched faces. I was at deaths door when once again, the high school showers revived me. Some really good scotch and a jovial group around the fire with several nice night launches rounded out the evening. Sunday morning presented lower winds early that once again died by noon resulting in near perfect conditions. I took my time and finally got my 54mm rocket loaded in the tower around noon. I flew an AMW 3 grain J357 this time around for a nice high flight that disappeared for what felt like an eternity before someone finally got eyes on it fully deployed under a 58? main. The rocket landed out in the plowed field by the away cell and against good advice, I opted to enjoy the recovery walk. That freshly plowed dirt/rock combination with little/no moisture in it is a chore to walk through. I knew I was in trouble before I ever got to the rocket and then had to turn around and walk all the way back. Hot spots on my feet managed to stay just below blister stage. Knowing I was not going to stay for one more evening of fun loving rocket geeks around a fire and the raffle, I drug my feet as I slowly packed up and headed for home. Thankfully I was headed east as the low sun would have been troublesome going the opposite direction. Major KUDO?s to the WAC crew for a very well run event. The new PA system was nice though additional FM broadcast would have been appreciated by those in the back rows of the camping area. I can?t wait to hear what all I missed as the time I was there was PHANTASTIC! Bob Yanecek -------------- next part -------------- Unfortunately, I ???got??? to come home Sunday evening so missed out on everything since 1715 (shortly after John Hawkins Mars Snooper flew). ? I arrived mid afternoon Thursday just after Tsolo and just before Vern Knowles to a sparsely set up camp area. Took my time getting set up and watched a steady procession of arrivals resulting in a full camp area by sunset. Friday was research day and as typical, activity was sporadic with multiple spectacular flights. My big tower went 0-2 for the day but neither were the fault of the tower. First my L3 rocket suffered a CATO several seconds into flight destroying everything except the main chute and electronics, then Denny Smith had recovery issues and landed hard. Later in the afternoon I flew my 38mm rocket on a 6 grain I-222 for a nominal flight. By the time the waiver closed a full crowd had assembled turning the camping area into a mini-town with folks continuing to arrive. Mansfield mayor Tom Snell opened the high school and for $2 you got a hot shower and a new lease on life. We were treated to spectacular ISS passes every night. Bedtime came early when ???Red??? took control of the fire and said ???no more wood???. I don???t recall too many complaints as there were nodding eyes all around. Saturday morning brought the official start of FITS with a large crowd at the fliers meeting and a tad more breeze than desirable. As a result of the wind, morning activity was light but by noon there was a line at the LCO table that continued through the 1800 close of waiver. I???m clueless how many flights took place but the wait in line was longer than comfortable if you were in it. Rockets of all descriptions took to the air continuously. The Sunflower caf? was on hand all weekend serving a full menu of great home cooked food. Vern Knowles flew Kate several times and she (? It ?) was creepy cool and crystal clear on the PA. I can???t wait to see how Vern tops this addition to his rocket fleet. I managed to stay busy/distracted/entertained all day but did get in a flight just before close of waiver with my L2 rocket and a J350 push for a good flight. Unfortunately I missed out on the group photo opportunity as I was out on recovery. A planned community meal blossomed into a full blown pot luck with good food, good company, and lots of sun drenched faces. I was at deaths door when once again, the high school showers revived me. Some really good scotch and a jovial group around the fire with several nice night launches rounded out the evening. Sunday morning presented lower winds early that once again died by noon resulting in near perfect conditions. I took my time and finally got my 54mm rocket loaded in the tower around noon. I flew an AMW 3 grain J357 this time around for a nice high flight that disappeared for what felt like an eternity before someone finally got eyes on it fully deployed under a 58??? main. The rocket landed out in the plowed field by the away cell and against good advice, I opted to enjoy the recovery walk. That freshly plowed dirt/rock combination with little/no moisture in it is a chore to walk through. I knew I was in trouble before I ever got to the rocket and then had to turn around and walk all the way back. Hot spots on my feet managed to stay just below blister stage. Knowing I was not going to stay for one more evening of fun loving rocket geeks around a fire and the raffle, I drug my feet as I slowly packed up and headed for home. Thankfully I was headed east as the low sun would have been troublesome going the opposite direction. Major KUDO???s to the WAC crew for a very well run event. The new? PA system was nice though additional FM broadcast would have been appreciated by those in the back rows of the camping area. I can???t wait to hear what all I missed as the time I was there was PHANTASTIC! ? Bob Yanecek ? ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.39/2133 - Release Date: 05/25/09 08:16:00 From absworld at cet.com Mon May 25 10:49:53 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 10:49:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CouldBL3 obituary Message-ID: <009001c9dd61$35851490$a08f3db0$@com> It is with great regret that I report the death of my L3 rocket which I initially named CouldBL3 in hopes of achieving my L3 certification. The rocket first flew at FITS_2006 and then successfully certified on an M1315 at BALLS that same year. Additional flights include research pushes on an M1822 at the Mansfield ranch site in June of 2007, followed by a Team NUMB M2300 Alumaflame push during Desert EXtreme in August at the Brothers launch site and then again at BALLS_2007 on an M1967. CouldBL3 sat dormant throughout 2008 and was slated for several flights this year. Sadly it was not to be. The first flight of the season was supposed to be a 'safe' 3G75 L-581 push to just under 10K' (its lowest flight ever). The motor came up to pressure nicely then CATO'd violently several seconds into the anticipated 6.5 second burn. Several pairs of eyes helped keep track of the pieces as they returned to earth 'challenger style'. Kent Newman gave me a bearing on the fin can impact site and with a heavy heart I trudged out to pick up what was left. What I found surprised me as the aft of the motor case was gone along with everything that was inside. I was particularly confused as to how the fwd closure got ejected as the forward snap ring was still in place. Thanks to Keith Stormo for solid failure diagnosis. As seems to be typical for me, that which I 'see' and that which is there don't always line up. I 'looked' at the case and 'saw' that it had sheared at the aft thrust ring groove. I came up with multiple causes; groove too deep, flame front got above the smoke grain, ect. Keith accurately diagnosed that the aft thrust ring groove was intact and that the case had sheared longitudinally between the aft internal snap ring groove and the external groove. The cause was fairly easy for Keith to discern as having the two grooves too close (way too close) together on the case. This was a machining error as the design drawing was accurate. What I find most painful is that the flaw should have been discovered during incoming inspection, assembly and remained obvious to a discerning eye at all times up through when I inserted the igniter. As seems to be the case in rocketry, lessons are often painful and this one is going to sting for quite a while. I'm keeping a mirror close by so I can have the proper face to blame. In the meantime I plan to get some practice with a micrometer and caliper as I now have a new high priority 'job' whenever I receive new hardware. Thankfully the Orange Sunset formula that made up the power for this motor was progressive with internal motor pressure gradually increasing through the burn. This quite possibly saved me from also having to repair/rebuild my tower. As with most of my rockets, I would never build the same thing again due to lessons learned on the previous version. This rings true once again as CouldBL3 was a 4" airframe stuck with a 75mm motor mount and the avionics bay was a pain to prep. So, a valuable lesson learned and now several planned flights for the year that no longer need planning. Bob Yanecek -------------- next part -------------- It is with great regret that I report the death of my L3 rocket which I initially named CouldBL3 in hopes of achieving my L3 certification. The rocket first flew at FITS_2006 and then successfully certified on an M1315 at BALLS that same year. Additional flights include research pushes on an M1822 at the Mansfield ranch site in June of 2007, followed by a Team NUMB M2300 Alumaflame push during Desert EXtreme in August at the Brothers launch site and then again at BALLS_2007 on an M1967. CouldBL3 sat dormant throughout 2008 and was slated for several flights this year. Sadly it was not to be. The first flight of the season was supposed to be a ???safe??? 3G75 L-581 push to just under 10K??? (its lowest flight ever). The motor came up to pressure nicely then CATO???d violently several seconds into the anticipated 6.5 second burn. Several pairs of eyes helped keep track of the pieces as they returned to earth ???challenger style???. Kent Newman gave me a bearing on the fin can impact site and with a heavy heart I trudged out to pick up what was left. What I found surprised me as the aft of the motor case was gone along with everything that was inside. I was particularly confused as to how the fwd closure got ejected as the forward snap ring was still in place. Thanks to Keith Stormo for solid failure diagnosis. As seems to be typical for me, that which I ???see??? and that which is there don???t always line up. I ???looked??? at the case and ???saw??? that it had sheared at the aft thrust ring groove. I came up with multiple causes; ?groove too deep, flame front got above the smoke grain, ect. Keith accurately diagnosed that the aft thrust ring groove was intact and that the case had sheared longitudinally between the aft internal snap ring groove and the external groove. The cause was fairly easy for Keith to discern as having the two grooves too close (way too close) together on the case. This was a machining error as the design drawing was accurate. What I find most painful is that the flaw should have been discovered during incoming inspection, assembly and remained obvious to a discerning eye at all times up through when I inserted the igniter. As seems to be the case in rocketry, lessons are often painful and this one is going to sting for quite a while. I???m keeping a mirror close by so I can have the proper face to blame. In the meantime I plan to get some practice with a micrometer and caliper as I now have a new high priority ???job??? whenever I receive new hardware. Thankfully the Orange Sunset formula that made up the power for this motor was progressive with internal motor pressure gradually increasing through the burn. This quite possibly saved me from also having to repair/rebuild my tower. As with most of my rockets, I would never build the same thing again due to lessons learned on the previous version. This rings true once again as CouldBL3 was a 4??? airframe stuck with a 75mm motor mount and the avionics bay was a pain to prep. ? So, a valuable lesson learned and now several planned flights for the year that no longer need planning. ? Bob Yanecek -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.39/2133 - Release Date: 05/25/09 08:16:00 From jhadv at pacifier.com Mon May 25 11:05:54 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 11:05:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CouldBL3 obituary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090525110012.00c37f28@mail.iinet.com> My condolences on CouldBL3. It's tough when it's not your fault like that. Your responsibility perhaps, but not your fault. Non-obvious failure points got me with a high Rds On on an on-board FET one time. I would have never though to have checked that before the accident. Once again my sympathy. From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon May 25 13:13:22 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 13:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] BROTHERS LAUNCH STATS In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090524125339.00bd0c58@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090524125339.00bd0c58@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <1b531956029c2001e249826ec0bb6372.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> What I've seen is that most of the bigger motors, I class and up, are used by the same relatively small group of individuals. They're the ones who can afford big rockets. If you hear over the PA, say, that an upcoming rocket at an OROC launch is going to be an M staged to a K, you can instantly limit the list of potential owners to 3 - 5 to which that rocket belongs to. So if the "usual suspects" aren't present, it'll show in the stats. The whole thing about crunching launch stats started from a discussion on the local mailing list as to why there was a notch at E class in the number of motors used. One school of thought held that E motors were too big for the low power crowd and too small for the high power crowd. After analyzing numbers from Monroe, Sheridan, Milligan and Brothers over some years I pretty well proved that there were two normal distributions corresponding to two either two different groups of flyers or two distinct 'styles' of rocketry. The low power side peaked at C while the high power side peaked in the G-H range. There were hints of a far smaller distribution peaking at around K. The low power group never flies anything bigger than G, the high power side never flies anything smaller than D. The ultrahigh power bunch never flies anything smaller than J. All that from the numbers. Looking at any given launch I could sometimes show three distinct distributions and ferret out spikes from, for example, somebody flying a huge cluster. A nine-variable curve fit! :-) But the overall pattern for Pacific Northwest launches is the two distributions with a small, statistically poorly defined "ultrahigh power" element. +McG+ > At 12:00 PM 5/24/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>It's possible the economy will dampen any rush to high power and not much >>change will occur once again. > > In particular I was rather surprised by the relative lack of I and J > motors > launched at Brothers in May. Some of the regulars for a launch like that > such as Steve or Fred and the old hands like that were not there so maybe > that was the difference. Even so as near as I can tell only 4 Js on > Saturday and 3 on Sunday for a total of 7 and for the I motors I count 5 > and 4 for a total of 9. I thought there would have been more given the > weather and the fact that it was the first opportunity of the year to test > the results of the Winter construction. Maybe in June. All that aside it > was a great launch and a great weekend. A lot of fun. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Mon May 25 19:48:16 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 19:48:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] CouldBL3 obituary In-Reply-To: <009001c9dd61$35851490$a08f3db0$@com> References: <009001c9dd61$35851490$a08f3db0$@com> Message-ID: <006001c9ddac$6c425650$44c702f0$@net> I take full responsibility for the machining mistake. I forgot to add a spacer dimension to the external thrust ring position when cutting it on the shaper (I did add it for the internal snap ring groove). Keith, Ray, and I discussed this and came up with several ways to try to mistake proof the process. Ray and I decided that using the same spacer under the end of the tube and under the machinist's square used to set the lower height of the saw blade used to cut the groove was the best solution. I hope to be able to get Bob enough parts so he can replace the rocket with better one I know he will design, but it is still not his L3 bird. Marty From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Bob & Ann Yanecek Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:50 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; 'WAC Members' Subject: [WAC-Members] CouldBL3 obituary It is with great regret that I report the death of my L3 rocket which I initially named CouldBL3 in hopes of achieving my L3 certification. The rocket first flew at FITS_2006 and then successfully certified on an M1315 at BALLS that same year. Additional flights include research pushes on an M1822 at the Mansfield ranch site in June of 2007, followed by a Team NUMB M2300 Alumaflame push during Desert EXtreme in August at the Brothers launch site and then again at BALLS_2007 on an M1967. CouldBL3 sat dormant throughout 2008 and was slated for several flights this year. Sadly it was not to be. The first flight of the season was supposed to be a 'safe' 3G75 L-581 push to just under 10K' (its lowest flight ever). The motor came up to pressure nicely then CATO'd violently several seconds into the anticipated 6.5 second burn. Several pairs of eyes helped keep track of the pieces as they returned to earth 'challenger style'. Kent Newman gave me a bearing on the fin can impact site and with a heavy heart I trudged out to pick up what was left. What I found surprised me as the aft of the motor case was gone along with everything that was inside. I was particularly confused as to how the fwd closure got ejected as the forward snap ring was still in place. Thanks to Keith Stormo for solid failure diagnosis. As seems to be typical for me, that which I 'see' and that which is there don't always line up. I 'looked' at the case and 'saw' that it had sheared at the aft thrust ring groove. I came up with multiple causes; groove too deep, flame front got above the smoke grain, ect. Keith accurately diagnosed that the aft thrust ring groove was intact and that the case had sheared longitudinally between the aft internal snap ring groove and the external groove. The cause was fairly easy for Keith to discern as having the two grooves too close (way too close) together on the case. This was a machining error as the design drawing was accurate. What I find most painful is that the flaw should have been discovered during incoming inspection, assembly and remained obvious to a discerning eye at all times up through when I inserted the igniter. As seems to be the case in rocketry, lessons are often painful and this one is going to sting for quite a while. I'm keeping a mirror close by so I can have the proper face to blame. In the meantime I plan to get some practice with a micrometer and caliper as I now have a new high priority 'job' whenever I receive new hardware. Thankfully the Orange Sunset formula that made up the power for this motor was progressive with internal motor pressure gradually increasing through the burn. This quite possibly saved me from also having to repair/rebuild my tower. As with most of my rockets, I would never build the same thing again due to lessons learned on the previous version. This rings true once again as CouldBL3 was a 4" airframe stuck with a 75mm motor mount and the avionics bay was a pain to prep. So, a valuable lesson learned and now several planned flights for the year that no longer need planning. Bob Yanecek -------------- next part -------------- I take full responsibility for the machining mistake. I forgot to add a spacer dimension to the external thrust ring position when cutting it on the shaper (I did add it for the internal snap ring groove). Keith, Ray, and I discussed this and came up with several ways to try to mistake proof the process. Ray and I decided that using the same spacer under the end of the tube and under the machinist???s square used to set the lower height of the saw blade used to cut the groove was the best solution. I hope to be able to get Bob enough parts so he can replace the rocket with better one I know he will design, but it is still not his L3 bird. ? Marty ? From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Bob & Ann Yanecek Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:50 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; 'WAC Members' Subject: [WAC-Members] CouldBL3 obituary ? It is with great regret that I report the death of my L3 rocket which I initially named CouldBL3 in hopes of achieving my L3 certification. The rocket first flew at FITS_2006 and then successfully certified on an M1315 at BALLS that same year. Additional flights include research pushes on an M1822 at the Mansfield ranch site in June of 2007, followed by a Team NUMB M2300 Alumaflame push during Desert EXtreme in August at the Brothers launch site and then again at BALLS_2007 on an M1967. CouldBL3 sat dormant throughout 2008 and was slated for several flights this year. Sadly it was not to be. The first flight of the season was supposed to be a ???safe??? 3G75 L-581 push to just under 10K??? (its lowest flight ever). The motor came up to pressure nicely then CATO???d violently several seconds into the anticipated 6.5 second burn. Several pairs of eyes helped keep track of the pieces as they returned to earth ???challenger style???. Kent Newman gave me a bearing on the fin can impact site and with a heavy heart I trudged out to pick up what was left. What I found surprised me as the aft of the motor case was gone along with everything that was inside. I was particularly confused as to how the fwd closure got ejected as the forward snap ring was still in place. Thanks to Keith Stormo for solid failure diagnosis. As seems to be typical for me, that which I ???see??? and that which is there don???t always line up. I ???looked??? at the case and ???saw??? that it had sheared at the aft thrust ring groove. I came up with multiple causes; ?groove too deep, flame front got above the smoke grain, ect. Keith accurately diagnosed that the aft thrust ring groove was intact and that the case had sheared longitudinally between the aft internal snap ring groove and the external groove. The cause was fairly easy for Keith to discern as having the two grooves too close (way too close) together on the case. This was a machining error as the design drawing was accurate. What I find most painful is that the flaw should have been discovered during incoming inspection, assembly and remained obvious to a discerning eye at all times up through when I inserted the igniter. As seems to be the case in rocketry, lessons are often painful and this one is going to sting for quite a while. I???m keeping a mirror close by so I can have the proper face to blame. In the meantime I plan to get some practice with a micrometer and caliper as I now have a new high priority ???job??? whenever I receive new hardware. Thankfully the Orange Sunset formula that made up the power for this motor was progressive with internal motor pressure gradually increasing through the burn. This quite possibly saved me from also having to repair/rebuild my tower. As with most of my rockets, I would never build the same thing again due to lessons learned on the previous version. This rings true once again as CouldBL3 was a 4??? airframe stuck with a 75mm motor mount and the avionics bay was a pain to prep. ? So, a valuable lesson learned and now several planned flights for the year that no longer need planning. ? Bob Yanecek From Jjcllc03 at aol.com Mon May 25 20:09:55 2009 From: Jjcllc03 at aol.com (Jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 23:09:55 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] CouldBL3 obituary Message-ID: Bob, Please accept my condolences for the loss of your L3 rocket. I lost my L1 rocket and that hurt badly but to lose your L3 rocket really would be a painful loss. Hopefully, you'll build a great replacement for her that will fill some of the emptiness left by this loss. Take care, buddy. Jack Caynon In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:51:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, absworld at cet.com writes: It is with great regret that I report the death of my L3 rocket which I initially named CouldBL3 in hopes of achieving my L3 certification. The rocket first flew at FITS_2006 and then successfully certified on an M1315 at BALLS that same year. Additional flights include research pushes on an M1822 at the Mansfield ranch site in June of 2007, followed by a Team NUMB M2300 Alumaflame push during Desert EXtreme in August at the Brothers launch site and then again at BALLS_2007 on an M1967. CouldBL3 sat dormant throughout 2008 and was slated for several flights this year. Sadly it was not to be. The first flight of the season was supposed to be a 'safe' 3G75 L-581 push to just under 10K' (its lowest flight ever). The motor came up to pressure nicely then CATO'd violently several seconds into the anticipated 6.5 second burn. Several pairs of eyes helped keep track of the pieces as they returned to earth 'challenger style'. Kent Newman gave me a bearing on the fin can impact site and with a heavy heart I trudged out to pick up what was left. What I found surprised me as the aft of the motor case was gone along with everything that was inside. I was particularly confused as to how the fwd closure got ejected as the forward snap ring was still in place. Thanks to Keith Stormo for solid failure diagnosis. As seems to be typical for me, that which I 'see' and that which is there don't always line up. I 'looked' at the case and 'saw' that it had sheared at the aft thrust ring groove. I came up with multiple causes; groove too deep, flame front got above the smoke grain, ect. Keith accurately diagnosed that the aft thrust ring groove was intact and that the case had sheared longitudinally between the aft internal snap ring groove and the external groove. The cause was fairly easy for Keith to discern as having the two grooves too close (way too close) together on the case. This was a machining error as the design drawing was accurate. What I find most painful is that the flaw should have been discovered during incoming inspection, assembly and remained obvious to a discerning eye at all times up through when I inserted the igniter. As seems to be the case in rocketry, lessons are often painful and this one is going to sting for quite a while. I'm keeping a mirror close by so I can have the proper face to blame. In the meantime I plan to get some practice with a micrometer and caliper as I now have a new high priority 'job' whenever I receive new hardware. Thankfully the Orange Sunset formula that made up the power for this motor was progressive with internal motor pressure gradually increasing through the burn. This quite possibly saved me from also having to repair/rebuild my tower. As with most of my rockets, I would never build the same thing again due to lessons learned on the previous version. This rings true once again as CouldBL3 was a 4" airframe stuck with a 75mm motor mount and the avionics bay was a pain to prep. So, a valuable lesson learned and now several planned flights for the year that no longer need planning. Bob Yanecek It is with great regret that I report the death of my L3 rocket which I initially named CouldBL3 in hopes of achieving my L3 certification. The rocket first flew at FITS_2006 and then successfully certified on an M1315 at BALLS that same year. Additional flights include research pushes on an M1822 at the Mansfield ranch site in June of 2007, followed by a Team NUMB M2300 Alumaflame push during Desert EXtreme in August at the Brothers launch site and then again at BALLS_2007 on an M1967. CouldBL3 sat dormant throughout 2008 and was slated for several flights this year. Sadly it was not to be. The first flight of the season was supposed to be a ???????safe???????? 3G75 L-581 push to just under 10K???????? (its lowest flight ever). The motor came up to pressure nicely then CATO????????d violently several seconds into the anticipated 6.5 second burn. Several pairs of eyes helped keep track of the pieces as they returned to earth ???????challenger style????????. Kent Newman gave me a bearing on the fin can impact site and with a heavy heart I trudged out to pick up what was left. What I found surprised me as the aft of the motor case was gone along with everything that was inside. I was particularly confused as to how the fwd closure got ejected as the forward snap ring was still in place. Thanks to Keith Stormo for solid failure diagnosis. As seems to be typical for me, that which I ???????see???????? and that which is there don????????t always line up. I ???????looked???????? at the case and ???????saw???????? that it had sheared at the aft thrust ring groove. I came up with multiple causes; groove too deep, flame front got above the smoke grain, ect. Keith accurately diagnosed that the aft thrust ring groove was intact and that the case had sheared longitudinally between the aft internal snap ring groove and the external groove. The cause was fairly easy for Keith to discern as having the two grooves too close (way too close) together on the case. This was a machining error as the design drawing was accurate. What I find most painful is that the flaw should have been discovered during incoming inspection, assembly and remained obvious to a discerning eye at all times up through when I inserted the igniter. As seems to be the case in rocketry, lessons are often painful and this one is going to sting for quite a while. I????????m keeping a mirror close by so I can have the proper face to blame. In the meantime I plan to get some practice with a micrometer and caliper as I now have a new high priority ???????job???????? whenever I receive new hardware. Thankfully the Orange Sunset formula that made up the power for this motor was progressive with internal motor pressure gradually increasing through the burn. This quite possibly saved me from also having to repair/rebuild my tower. As with most of my rockets, I would never build the same thing again due to lessons learned on the previous version. This rings true once again as CouldBL3 was a 4??????? airframe stuck with a 75mm motor mount and the avionics bay was a pain to prep. So, a valuable lesson learned and now several planned flights for the year that no longer need planning. Bob Yanecek No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.39/2133 - Release Date: 05/25/09 08:16:00 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823249x1201398664/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May ExcfooterNO62) -------------- next part -------------- Bob, ? Please accept my condolences for the loss of your L3 rocket.? I lost my L1 rocket and that hurt badly but to lose your L3 rocket really would be a painful loss.? Hopefully, you'll build a great replacement for her that will fill some of the emptiness left by this loss.? Take care, buddy. ? Jack Caynon ? In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:51:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, absworld at cet.com writes: It is with great regret that I report the death of my L3 rocket which I initially named CouldBL3 in hopes of achieving my L3 certification. The rocket first flew at FITS_2006 and then successfully certified on an M1315 at BALLS that same year. Additional flights include research pushes on an M1822 at the Mansfield ranch site in June of 2007, followed by a Team NUMB M2300 Alumaflame push during Desert EXtreme in August at the Brothers launch site and then again at BALLS_2007 on an M1967. CouldBL3 sat dormant throughout 2008 and was slated for several flights this year. Sadly it was not to be. The first flight of the season was supposed to be a 'safe' 3G75 L-581 push to just under 10K' (its lowest flight ever). The motor came up to pressure nicely then CATO'd violently several seconds into the anticipated 6.5 second burn. Several pairs of eyes helped keep track of the pieces as they returned to earth 'challenger style'. Kent Newman gave me a bearing on the fin can impact site and with a heavy heart I trudged out to pick up what was left. What I found surprised me as the aft of the motor case was gone along with everything that was inside. I was particularly confused as to how the fwd closure got ejected as the forward snap ring was still in place. Thanks to Keith Stormo for solid failure diagnosis. As seems to be typical for me, that which I 'see' and that which is there don't always line up. I 'looked' at the case and 'saw' that it had sheared at the aft thrust ring groove. I came up with multiple causes;? groove too deep, flame front got above the smoke grain, ect. Keith accurately diagnosed that the aft thrust ring groove was intact and that the case had sheared longitudinally between the aft internal snap ring groove and the external groove. The cause was fairly easy for Keith to discern as having the two grooves too close (way too close) together on the case. This was a machining error as the design drawing was accurate. What I find most painful is that the flaw should have been discovered during incoming inspection, assembly and remained obvious to a discerning eye at all times up through when I inserted the igniter. As seems to be the case in rocketry, lessons are often painful and this one is going to sting for quite a while. I'm keeping a mirror close by so I can have the proper face to blame. In the meantime I plan to get some practice with a micrometer and caliper as I now have a new high priority 'job' whenever I receive new hardware. Thankfully the Orange Sunset formula that made up the power for this motor was progressive with internal motor pressure gradually increasing through the burn. This quite possibly saved me from also having to repair/rebuild my tower. As with most of my rockets, I would never build the same thing again due to lessons learned on the previous version. This rings true once again as CouldBL3 was a 4" airframe stuck with a 75mm motor mount and the avionics bay was a pain to prep. So, a valuable lesson learned and now several planned flights for the year that no longer need planning. Bob Yanecek It is with great regret that I report the death of my L3 rocket which I initially named CouldBL3 in hopes of achieving my L3 certification. The rocket first flew at FITS_2006 and then successfully certified on an M1315 at BALLS that same year. Additional flights include research pushes on an M1822 at the Mansfield ranch site in June of 2007, followed by a Team NUMB M2300 Alumaflame push during Desert EXtreme in August at the Brothers launch site and then again at BALLS_2007 on an M1967. CouldBL3 sat dormant throughout 2008 and was slated for several flights this year. Sadly it was not to be. The first flight of the season was supposed to be a ???????safe???????? 3G75 L-581 push to just under 10K???????? (its lowest flight ever). The motor came up to pressure nicely then CATO????????d violently several seconds into the anticipated 6.5 second burn. Several pairs of eyes helped keep track of the pieces as they returned to earth ???????challenger style????????. Kent Newman gave me a bearing on the fin can impact site and with a heavy heart I trudged out to pick up what was left. What I found surprised me as the aft of the motor case was gone along with everything that was inside. I was particularly confused as to how the fwd closure got ejected as the forward snap ring was still in place. Thanks to Keith Stormo for solid failure diagnosis. As seems to be typical for me, that which I ???????see???????? and that which is there don????????t always line up. I ???????looked???????? at the case and ???????saw???????? that it had sheared at the aft thrust ring groove. I came up with multiple causes; ?groove too deep, flame front got above the smoke grain, ect. Keith accurately diagnosed that the aft thrust ring groove was intact and that the case had sheared longitudinally between the aft internal snap ring groove and the external groove. The cause was fairly easy for Keith to discern as having the two grooves too close (way too close) together on the case. This was a machining error as the design drawing was accurate. What I find most painful is that the flaw should have been discovered during incoming inspection, assembly and remained obvious to a discerning eye at all times up through when I inserted the igniter. As seems to be the case in rocketry, lessons are often painful and this one is going to sting for quite a while. I????????m keeping a mirror close by so I can have the proper face to blame. In the meantime I plan to get some practice with a micrometer and caliper as I now have a new high priority ???????job???????? whenever I receive new hardware. Thankfully the Orange Sunset formula that made up the power for this motor was progressive with internal motor pressure gradually increasing through the burn. This quite possibly saved me from also having to repair/rebuild my tower. As with most of my rockets, I would never build the same thing again due to lessons learned on the previous version. This rings true once again as CouldBL3 was a 4??????? airframe stuck with a 75mm motor mount and the avionics bay was a pain to prep. ? So, a valuable lesson learned and now several planned flights for the year that no longer need planning. ? Bob Yanecek No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.39/2133 - Release Date: 05/25/09 08:16:00 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? An Excellent Credit Score is 750. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823249x1201398664/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=MayExcfooterNO62 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Mon May 25 20:13:55 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 20:13:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] partial FITS report In-Reply-To: <006401c9dd56$e2173ef0$a645bcd0$@com> References: <006401c9dd56$e2173ef0$a645bcd0$@com> Message-ID: <007901c9ddb0$013bd210$03b37630$@net> As Bob reported earlier it was a big crowd. If it was not a record crowd it was close. I arrived Friday morning about 10 and pulled in the Dawg Pack camp as well prepared as I have ever arrived at a major launch. I planned to fly Skeeter Eater Beater (24X upscale of the Mosquito) on an N1630, but after the CATO of Bob's case and looking at the one I had machined for mine I decided that making a slightly shorter case was a good idea with better groove spacing was a good idea. Sorry I learned from the misfortune of a good friend. I got Go Bucks III into the air about 4 pm on a Dawg Pack Malamute K500 and had a great dual deployment flight to 11,189 ft. I recovered about a mile NNW of the far away cell where I launched On Saturday I got Go Bucks III into the air on an I600 to 4765 ft. as part of the I recovery duration contest. I ended up arcing over to the east a fair bit which both dropped my altitude and added to the total recover time so I got second place to Dave Randall who landed nearly back on the track. This and similar HPR contests are to be encouraged. Later I flew my Mosquito V (8-9X upscale) on an AMW J370 to 4370 ft. and a good recovery. Sunday started slow at the LCO table as well over half of the camp had cleared out, but picked up around 9:30. I flew a standard mosquito on a 1/2A3-4 and lost if just off the track and a 2.5X upscale on a D12-7 which tumbled into the track center. I bought some 1/4A motors for the Mosquito. I would like to congratulate Dawg Pack member Rob Jopson on getting his TRA L1 and L2 certs on a fully handmade min diameter carbon fiber rocket to around 9700 ft. on the I284 and 11,000+ ft. on the J350. He and his father Jim had a couple of great research launches on this and the 54 mm brother as well. Great job by Mike, Denny, and Kent in organizing a great launch and special thanks to all of the volunteers and the town of Mansfield for making this possible. Marty -------------- next part -------------- As Bob reported earlier it was a big crowd.? If it was not a record crowd it was close. ? I arrived Friday morning about 10 and pulled in the Dawg Pack camp as well prepared as I have ever arrived at a major launch. I planned to fly Skeeter Eater Beater (24X upscale of the Mosquito) on an N1630, but after the CATO of Bob???s case and looking at the one I had machined for mine I decided that making a slightly shorter case was a good idea with better groove spacing was a good idea. Sorry I learned from the misfortune of a good friend. I got Go Bucks III into the air about 4 pm on a Dawg Pack Malamute K500 and had a great dual deployment flight to 11,189 ft. I recovered about a mile NNW of the far away cell where I launched ? On Saturday I got Go Bucks III into the air on an I600 to 4765 ft. as part of the I recovery duration contest.? I ended up arcing over to the east a fair bit which both dropped my altitude and added to the total recover time so I got second place to Dave Randall who landed nearly back on the track.? This and similar HPR contests are to be encouraged.? Later I flew my Mosquito V (8-9X upscale) on an AMW J370 to 4370 ft. and a good recovery. ? Sunday started slow at the LCO table as well over half of the camp had cleared out, but picked up around 9:30.? I flew a standard mosquito on a 1/2A3-4 and lost if just off the track and a 2.5X upscale on a D12-7 which tumbled into the track center.? I bought some 1/4A motors for the Mosquito. ? I would like to congratulate Dawg Pack member Rob Jopson on getting his TRA L1 and L2 certs on a fully handmade min diameter carbon fiber rocket to around 9700 ft. on the I284 and 11,000+ ft. on the J350.? He and his father Jim had a couple of great research launches on this and the 54 mm brother as well. ? Great job by Mike, Denny, and Kent in organizing a great launch and special thanks to all of the volunteers and the town of Mansfield for making this possible. ? Marty From fred at azinger.com Mon May 25 21:00:26 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 21:00:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CouldBL3 obituary In-Reply-To: <009001c9dd61$35851490$a08f3db0$@com> References: <009001c9dd61$35851490$a08f3db0$@com> Message-ID: <008501c9ddb6$81251fd0$836f5f70$@com> Bob -- so sorry to hear you have joined the "snap ring grooves are cut wrong" club. Such was the fate of our Nike Apache at Balls last year. I too will be more diligent with the caliper inspecting HW before use....that face glaring back in the mirror is ugly..... Things like this are why my L3 with its paint-by-Proffitt is now a hanger Queen. Sorry again for your loss, Thx for the report. Sounds like it was another great FITS.......gotta make it some year....... FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob & Ann Yanecek Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:50 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; 'WAC Members' Subject: [RocketsNW] CouldBL3 obituary It is with great regret that I report the death of my L3 rocket which I initially named CouldBL3 in hopes of achieving my L3 certification. The rocket first flew at FITS_2006 and then successfully certified on an M1315 at BALLS that same year. Additional flights include research pushes on an M1822 at the Mansfield ranch site in June of 2007, followed by a Team NUMB M2300 Alumaflame push during Desert EXtreme in August at the Brothers launch site and then again at BALLS_2007 on an M1967. CouldBL3 sat dormant throughout 2008 and was slated for several flights this year. Sadly it was not to be. The first flight of the season was supposed to be a 'safe' 3G75 L-581 push to just under 10K' (its lowest flight ever). The motor came up to pressure nicely then CATO'd violently several seconds into the anticipated 6.5 second burn. Several pairs of eyes helped keep track of the pieces as they returned to earth 'challenger style'. Kent Newman gave me a bearing on the fin can impact site and with a heavy heart I trudged out to pick up what was left. What I found surprised me as the aft of the motor case was gone along with everything that was inside. I was particularly confused as to how the fwd closure got ejected as the forward snap ring was still in place. Thanks to Keith Stormo for solid failure diagnosis. As seems to be typical for me, that which I 'see' and that which is there don't always line up. I 'looked' at the case and 'saw' that it had sheared at the aft thrust ring groove. I came up with multiple causes; groove too deep, flame front got above the smoke grain, ect. Keith accurately diagnosed that the aft thrust ring groove was intact and that the case had sheared longitudinally between the aft internal snap ring groove and the external groove. The cause was fairly easy for Keith to discern as having the two grooves too close (way too close) together on the case. This was a machining error as the design drawing was accurate. What I find most painful is that the flaw should have been discovered during incoming inspection, assembly and remained obvious to a discerning eye at all times up through when I inserted the igniter. As seems to be the case in rocketry, lessons are often painful and this one is going to sting for quite a while. I'm keeping a mirror close by so I can have the proper face to blame. In the meantime I plan to get some practice with a micrometer and caliper as I now have a new high priority 'job' whenever I receive new hardware. Thankfully the Orange Sunset formula that made up the power for this motor was progressive with internal motor pressure gradually increasing through the burn. This quite possibly saved me from also having to repair/rebuild my tower. As with most of my rockets, I would never build the same thing again due to lessons learned on the previous version. This rings true once again as CouldBL3 was a 4" airframe stuck with a 75mm motor mount and the avionics bay was a pain to prep. So, a valuable lesson learned and now several planned flights for the year that no longer need planning. Bob Yanecek From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Tue May 26 00:47:47 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 00:47:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS update........ Message-ID: Greetings all, Made it home with no issues, and no traffic!! Hope all of you had a great trip home. The best part of getting home....... a long shower............ Just wanted to thank all of you that stopped by the booth and said hi. Thanks again for all your support. Your purchases help fund our observatory education programs. A big thank you to all the organizers and those that worked at this years FITS, I know how hard you worked to make it all happen. Another special thank you to Daron Johnson and all of the folks in his camp, who, after a long hot day of flying rockets, let me come over, and keep them up late at night and watch the Indy 500. Look forward to seeing you at the launches at Brothers in 2009, and at FITS 2010. Enjoy your week, Thanks again, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory From dmrandall at gmail.com Tue May 26 07:01:04 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 07:01:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 Launch Report Message-ID: <6bc920e40905260701t13ebaf36n62c9256d6bd94856@mail.gmail.com> The Randalls arrived Thursday evening to a gorgeous sunset, darkening skies and the promise of another great FITS! This year's major effort for me at FITS was "U4EA", a 22' tall, 12" diameter, 150# rocket that would fly on a cluster of five motors, four J-250 Skidmarks and one N-2560 "Purple Helmet" EX formula from Brad Wright and Denny Smith. Our team (Scott Berfield, Mike Wyvel, Michael Dennis and me) had a few design challenges, one of which was transportation requirements. Twenty-two feet of rocket just don't fit in the back of your average grocery-getter! Michael did a great job designing fins that would fit inside a standard doorway, allow us to use an RV as the transport vehicle. Friday morning started with coffee to get us going. A fresh coat of red paint was applied to U4EA in a spiral pattern, giving it a unique candy-cane look. Parachute prep, ejection charges, couplers and motors were all prepped and placed for the expected 4pm launch time. We ferried the parts out to the away cell in two trips, and after another hour at the away cell, had managed to wrestle the towering rocket into place on 16' of rail and a custom built exhaust ejection box. With the countdown complete and the button pushed, three of the four Skidmarks lit and there was no vertical movement! A second and a half after the Skidmarks lit, the central N motor came up to pressure and liftoff of U4EA was just simply spectacular! It rose slowly and gracefully and continued up quite majestically. Because one of the Skidmark's hadn't lit, the rocket tipped a bit to the South on its way to apogee. A few puffs of BP later, the 20' droge chute was deployed, and the 12' main inflated. The second 14' main chute never inflated, and appears to have been snagged on some of the shock cord. The rocket came down faster than we expected, so there was some damage that appeared irrepairable during FITS. The flight of U4EA went to 2,167' and landed just north of Hwy 172 in a wheat field. After returning the rocket to the camp, we hoisted it up and left it strapped to Michael's RV. It's amazing to stand on top of an RV next to a 22' tall rocket and still not be able to reach the bottom of the nosecone! We decided that our planned second flight on an M1450 with four J250's was going to be underpowered even if we were able to get the repairs done. That was unfortunate, as I know a lot of folks who were there on Saturday wanted to watch it fly. I was sure one of those people too. As for the rest of the weekend, here's my quick flight summary: Dave - 3" Competitor - I-205 to about 1,200' and a successful recovery on the hill behind the track 2.1" Little Dog - I-300T in the "I Timed Recovery" contest to 4,700'. Total recovery time was 3 minutes - it landed about 15' North of the track! 2.1" Little Dog - H-999 to 3,100' - quickly! 2.1" Little Dog - H-999 to 3,100' - quickly again! 3" "Get the LED out" night flyer on two H-123W - great flight to about 2,000' during the day. 3" "Get the LED out" night flyer on two H-123W - night flight had a coupler snap at ejection resulting in nose with LED's coming in under full gravity power. Josh - 2.1" Aerotech Mirage on F42-T - flight only to 400' or so, no chute deployment and flat spin recovery to the infield 2.1" Aerotech Mirage on F ?? Redline - again, flight to 400' with flat spin recovery and no chute ejection. Linda - "Commie Cow" - Madcow Rocketry kit built and painted with red spots on site - never flew after 3 hours on the pad and four attempts Thomas - Official motor builder, motor cleaner, and all-around support staff for the weekend - no flights I signed off two cert flights this weekend, congrats to "Robert & Robert" - for L1 and L2 certs. One other cert flight I hoped to sign off was for Chuck Tenesch, who had an Excel Plus on a J350 with a 10 second delay. Unfortunately, the delay was off (either too short/long?) resulting in a 1" zipper, and the rocket suffered a snapped off fin on landing. Thanks again to Denny, Mike, the people of Mansfield, and Mrs Snell - for making a wonderful FITS blanket that I won during the auction! Dave From michael at garvais.net Tue May 26 09:43:06 2009 From: michael at garvais.net (michael at garvais.net) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:43:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread Message-ID: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find anything good out in the weeds? Lost: 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my PML Calisto...) 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent colors & old FITS stickers) Found: A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers Sunburn and Dust We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to everyone that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. -Michael Garvais From daron at daronjohnson.com Tue May 26 09:47:10 2009 From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:47:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [personal] FITS - a lost and found thread In-Reply-To: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> References: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> Message-ID: <001f01c9de21$9eb74df0$dc25e9d0$@com> Someone turned in a 38/1080 motor on Sunday. Case was red forward closure was blue. Not sure if someone claimed it by the end of the day or not. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of michael at garvais.net Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:43 AM To: Rockets Subject: [personal] [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find anything good out in the weeds? Lost: 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my PML Calisto...) 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent colors & old FITS stickers) Found: A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers Sunburn and Dust We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to everyone that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. -Michael Garvais _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From daron at daronjohnson.com Tue May 26 10:16:13 2009 From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:16:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [personal] FITS - a lost and found thread In-Reply-To: <001f01c9de21$9eb74df0$dc25e9d0$@com> References: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> <001f01c9de21$9eb74df0$dc25e9d0$@com> Message-ID: <002001c9de25$adf57270$09e05750$@com> Check that. I mean Monday... Ugg. Still burnt out.. :) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Daron Johnson Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:47 AM To: 'Rockets' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [personal] FITS - a lost and found thread Someone turned in a 38/1080 motor on Sunday. Case was red forward closure was blue. Not sure if someone claimed it by the end of the day or not. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of michael at garvais.net Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:43 AM To: Rockets Subject: [personal] [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find anything good out in the weeds? Lost: 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my PML Calisto...) 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent colors & old FITS stickers) Found: A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers Sunburn and Dust We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to everyone that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. -Michael Garvais _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From blakbird11 at comcast.net Tue May 26 10:31:24 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 17:31:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread In-Reply-To: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> Message-ID: <1630970609.13180401243359084917.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Lost: A 29/100 case and closures, red, with Aeropack retainer still attached. Found: My addiction to AP. Thanks to whomever found the wreckage of my Aerotech Mirage. I salvaged the motor case and parachutes. Eric Albrecht ----- michael at garvais.net wrote: > > > I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find anything > good out in the weeds? > > > Lost: > > 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my > PML Calisto...) > 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent > colors & old FITS stickers) > > > > Found: > > A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers > Sunburn and Dust > > > > We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to everyone > that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. > > -Michael Garvais > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- Lost: A 29/100 case and closures, red, with Aeropack retainer still attached. Found: My addiction to AP. Thanks to whomever found the wreckage of my Aerotech Mirage.? I salvaged the motor case and parachutes. Eric Albrecht ----- michael at garvais.net wrote: > > > I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. ?Did you lose or find anything > good out in the weeds? > > > Lost: > > 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my > PML Calisto...) > 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent > colors & old FITS stickers) ? > > > > Found: > > A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers > Sunburn and Dust > > > > We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. ?A big thank you to everyone > that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. > > -Michael Garvais > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ?? > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Tue May 26 10:34:25 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 13:34:25 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 Launch Report Message-ID: Love the name of that formula. :) Sorry to hear about the damage, but congrats on a mostly successful flight. Recovery of such large projects is very tricky anyway. Mike F. In a message dated 5/26/2009 7:01:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: and one N-2560 "Purple Helmet" EX formula from Brad Wright and Denny Smith. **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) -------------- next part -------------- Love the name of that formula. :) ? Sorry to hear about the damage, but congrats on a mostly successful flight.? Recovery of such large projects is very tricky anyway.? ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/26/2009 7:01:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: and one N-2560 "Purple Helmet" EX formula from Brad Wright and Denny Smith. We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From carl at mousetrap.com Tue May 26 10:37:12 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:37:12 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread In-Reply-To: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> References: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> Message-ID: Lost: My pants Found: My pants (after a short period of panic) - Carl On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:43 AM, wrote: > > > I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find anything > good out in the weeds? > > > Lost: > > 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my > PML Calisto...) > 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent > colors & old FITS stickers) > > > > Found: > > A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers > Sunburn and Dust > > > > We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to everyone > that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. > > -Michael Garvais > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- My pants Found: My pants (after a short period of panic) ?- Carl On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:43 AM, < mailto:michael at garvais.net michael at garvais.net > wrote: I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. ?Did you lose or find anything good out in the weeds? Lost: 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my PML Calisto...) 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent colors & old FITS stickers) Found: A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers Sunburn and Dust We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. ?A big thank you to everyone that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. -Michael Garvais _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bar0051 at homenetnw.net Tue May 26 10:55:40 2009 From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:55:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread References: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> Message-ID: There were a number of rockets & parts including several motor cases and possible alt. bay that ended up in the club trailer. I have the small small rocket that was on the power lines by the club house, it was retrieved by the Douglas County P.U.D. after he got the large one off the line N.E of the launch site. I will bring the one I have to the next launch and add it to the collection in the club trailer. Bryon Schopp ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockets" Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread > > > I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find > anything > good out in the weeds? > > > Lost: > > 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my > PML Calisto...) > 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent > colors & old FITS stickers) > > > > Found: > > A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers > Sunburn and Dust > > > > We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to everyone > that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. > > -Michael Garvais > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Tue May 26 11:05:23 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 18:05:23 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread In-Reply-To: References: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost>, Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990E3C56@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> that was one scary moment! ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Hamilton [carl at mousetrap.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:37 AM To: Rockets Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread Lost: My pants Found: My pants (after a short period of panic) - Carl On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:43 AM, wrote: > > > I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find anything > good out in the weeds? > > > Lost: > > 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my > PML Calisto...) > 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent > colors & old FITS stickers) > > > > Found: > > A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers > Sunburn and Dust > > > > We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to everyone > that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. > > -Michael Garvais > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Tue May 26 11:50:43 2009 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 11:50:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 Launch Report Message-ID: 1st and foremost, my hats off to Mike, Denny, Kent and the town of Mansfield. This is one awesome launch!!!! Planned on leaving Portland early Thur AM, but we found ourselves packed and ready to go Wed night, so we just left. Made it almost halfway before sleep took priority. Made it to the site just after noon to find just one other party (Darren Johnson) there. Quickly set up camp and got the kids (Tessa & Nate) into the shade. They pointed their chairs towards the road and announced the new arrivals. By late afternoon it was looking like a new town had sprouted. Both kids made new rockets for FITS. Tessa (12) designed and helped to build her 4" all fiberglass rocket "Earn Your Paint", while Nate (11) went the easier route and chose to use a 98mm PR fincan and a section of PML tubing for a much simpler build of "I'm Colorful". Friday being research day, was our big day. Brought 10 research motors, from H to M, and tried to get them all burned. Almost made it... In short the day went like this: Nate - H230 Wimpy Purple to about 650'. The main didn't get pulled out completely and came down on the 24" drogue only, with no damage... Tessa - I351 PDQ to 1,040'. Cracked a fillet on landing (darn rocks) so Tessa's new rocket was out of commission for the weekend. Nate - J550 AlumaFlame to 3,300'. Perfect flight and recovery. Nate's getting stoked now... Peter - L1222 AlumaFlame in Balls-15, my backup L3 project. Went to 11,200' and a nice soft landing. Nate - K987 AlumaFlame to 7,500' and better than Mach 1. Was a real neck snapper of a flight and a perfect recovery literally 5' from someone's backyard in Mansfield. Peter - H420 AlumaFlame in Pyramid #1. Burned thru the case at the end of the flight, but that just made it more interesting as the pyramid spun like a top at apogee. Peter - J300 Orange Sunset in Pyramid #2. That motor just goes and goes and goes... I was planning to fly 'Balls-15' on an M1800, but after Nate's awesome K987 flight I had no need to fly anything else big. Saturday was much more relaxed. The kids and I flew an assortment of AT reloads from D thru H in some of our older projects. Saved a couple of motors for the night launch, which the kids just loved. Flew a naked FG rocket on and AT H128 with glowsticks attached, then the smaller pyramid on an AT H268 with red glowsticks sticking out the sides. It chuffed once and chuffed again then chuffed again almost 5ft up the rod before finally lighting and screaming into the air. Sunday was an even more relaxing day, especially after a long night around Brads 'Sing-a-Long' fire pit. Just too much fun... Flew an old Estes kit on a B and C. That left just an 'A' flight to complete an out of order ladder from A to L. Sunday did have one very interesting event, a twister went thru camp and left quite a mess. All weekend long we'd see these dust devils out in the distance and Tessa'd ask what it felt like to be in the middle of one. Well, she'd find out sooner then she'd like. Started as just a little twisting of the dust right in front of us, so we started following it, trying to get right in the middle to see how it felt. It kept dancing away from us, gradually getting a little bigger. Then it took a big shift to the right and went right for a lone tent. It tried it's best to remove the tent from the ground, but I think one stake held and it moved on, right towards us and the main camp. She held on tight as the world turned brown and I told her we weren't in Kansas anymore. Got a brief laugh... 1st, Sunriver got whacked and all the inventory went flying. Then campsite after campsite got hit. In the end quite a few EZ-Ups got tossed in the dumpster. Didn't hear of any injuries other than dust in the eyes. Monday was the day we all hate to see arrive, but it did anyway, beautiful and calm. Flew my daughters rocket that she won at last years raffle and build on site. Flew it on an A8-3 with a scrap of doughnut on the nose. The doughnut stayed on the entire flight. The drive home was relatively painless, with frequent stops for ice-cream. Our motor distribution: A-1 B-1 C-1 D-1 E-1 F-1 G-1 H-5 I-1 J-1 K-1 L-1 Total = 16 flights and 3 very happy people! Once again, Thanks to all who make this wonderful event happen. The kids are already looking forward to next year. - Peter, Tessa & Nate Ekstrom From rockets at penian.com Tue May 26 12:16:38 2009 From: rockets at penian.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Paul=20Nelson?=) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 11:16:38 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] =?iso-8859-1?q?FITS_-_a_lost_and_found_thread?= Message-ID: <20090526191638.16667.qmail@server298.com> Lost: An opportunity to swap lies with all my rocketry pals. The family voted for a Memorial week-end boat trip instead. Will try for next year. Found (last year): Son Ian tried to get rid of some of his old model rockets by stuffing overpower AP SU motors into them. They kept on showing up back at the LCO table. Too many searchers wandering around out there. Paul Nelson http://rocketry.penian.com/ From sb at berfield.com Tue May 26 12:35:11 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:35:11 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] outboard video from big rocket Message-ID: We had an Oregon Scientific camera strapped on the side of the U4EA Friday. You can see a YouTubed version of it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdqvdaC72hE The conversion process made it a bit grainy, but still cool. OInce I sort out a place for hte higher quality version, I'll et you all know. -------------- next part -------------- We had an Oregon Scientific camera strapped on the side of the U4EA Friday. You can see a YouTubed version of it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdqvdaC72hE The conversion process made it a bit grainy, but still cool. OInce I sort out a place for hte higher quality version, I'll et you all know. From fred.azinger at intel.com Tue May 26 13:18:47 2009 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 13:18:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] outboard video from big rocket In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cool -- notice the airframe wobble at about 9 seconds into the flight..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:35 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] outboard video from big rocket We had an Oregon Scientific camera strapped on the side of the U4EA Friday. You can see a YouTubed version of it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdqvdaC72hE The conversion process made it a bit grainy, but still cool. OInce I sort out a place for hte higher quality version, I'll et you all know. From clappfamily at comcast.net Tue May 26 13:43:10 2009 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 20:43:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] outboard video from big rocket In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1248843719.7940621243370590924.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> It was a wiggle monster for just a few seconds.?? I hope to post some pictures of it later today or tomorrow. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Azinger" To: "Scott Berfield" , rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:18:47 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] outboard video from big rocket Cool -- notice the airframe wobble at about 9 seconds into the flight..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:35 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] outboard video from big rocket We had an Oregon Scientific camera strapped on the side of the U4EA Friday. You can see a YouTubed version of it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdqvdaC72hE The conversion process made it a bit grainy, but still cool. OInce I sort out a place for hte higher quality version, I'll et you all know. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ???? -------------- next part -------------- It was a wiggle monster for just a few seconds.? I hope to post some pictures of it later today or tomorrow. ? ? Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Azinger" To: "Scott Berfield" , rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:18:47 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] outboard video from big rocket Cool -- notice the airframe wobble at about 9 seconds into the flight..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:35 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] outboard video from big rocket We had an Oregon Scientific camera strapped on the side of the U4EA Friday. You can see a YouTubed version of it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdqvdaC72hE The conversion process made it a bit grainy, but still cool. OInce I sort out a place for hte higher quality version, I'll et you all know. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From t.j.doll at att.net Tue May 26 13:49:28 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 20:49:28 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fantastic FITS Message-ID: <052620092049.16366.4A1C55D60002297600003FEE22230703629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> What a fantastic weekend. First off, a big thanks to all that helped make FITS happen. Also, an apology to Carl for the foul-up on my range duty - I generally do better, it won't happen again. It was great to meet so many of the list members - just don't be insulted when I can't remember your name next launch (I am just horrible at names). The 'test flight' of my SHR Saturn V went great (after the 90 minutes of futzing around to get the launch rails and buttons straightened out.....). As feared, the I211W-S was a little marginal off the pad and it weathercocked a bit into the wind, but ejection was right at apogee and the chutes opened shortly thereafter. There was some minor touchdown damage (broken fin), possibly since the upper and lower section shockcords got tangled, which had the effect of reefing the main chute, but it's already been repaired and after a little touchup paint it'll look good as new. Now for LDRS and Level 2. The Apogee Saturn V flew nicely on the G71R, although a G is barely adequate for this rocket. I'd planned to use an H, but forgot to bring the extra nose ballast needed to counteract the higher engine weight. The Estes Saturn V with a G71R had a spectacular CATO off the pad, however resultant damage was not serious - it'll fly again. What bothers me most is not having a good idea why it CATO'd. The only think I can think of is that the original Copperhead igniter misfired - when I replaced it with a Twiggy on the pad I didn't bring my overpriced Aerotech tool to re-tighten the closure and perhaps I didn't get it tight enough. The antique Estes Saturn 1B flew nicely on a pair of D12-3s, I wanted to fly it again with a couple Aerotech E's, but ran out of time. Yes, I do like scale, and I really like Saturns :-) My NCR Bomarc powered pranged off the pad with the F40 - apparently an F isn't enough for that big Bomarc (regardless of what the paperwork said). But, again, the damage wasn't serious and it'll fly again (next time on a G). BTW, has anyone tried a big Bomarc with engines in the ramjet pods? The Sheri's Little Joe II (G64W), Estes Pro Series Patriot (4 x D12-7), NCR Interceptor G (G64W), Estes Mercury Atlas (F24), and a nice little 18mm Nike Ajax (D13-7) all had beautiful flights. Where do we go to check out all those pictures that everyone was taking? Oh, under lost and found, after I got home I discovered I was missing the 18mm Aerotech RMS casing (black with gold nozzle closure). I suspect I may have dropped it around where I was set up and failed to notice before I left. Tim -------------- next part -------------- What a fantastic weekend. ? First off, a big thanks to all that helped make FITS happen. Also, an apology to Carl for the foul-up on my range duty - I generally do better, it won't happen again. It was great to meet so many of the list members - just don't be insulted when I can't remember your name next launch (I am just horrible at names). ? The 'test flight' of my SHR Saturn V went great (after the 90 minutes of futzing around to get the launch rails and buttons straightened out.....). As feared, the I211W-S was a little marginal off the pad and it weathercocked a bit into the wind, but ejection was right at apogee and the chutes opened shortly thereafter. There was some minor touchdown damage (broken fin), possibly since the upper and lower section shockcords got tangled, which had the effect of reefing the main chute, but it's already been repaired and after a little touchup paint it'll look good as new. Now for LDRS and Level 2. ? The Apogee Saturn V flew nicely on the G71R, although a G is barely adequate for this rocket. I'd planned to use an H, but forgot to bring the extra nose ballast needed to counteract the higher engine weight. ? The Estes Saturn V with a G71R had a spectacular CATO off the pad, however resultant damage was not serious - it'll fly again. What bothers me most is not having a good idea why it CATO'd. The only think I can think of is that the original Copperhead igniter misfired - when I replaced it with a Twiggy on the pad I didn't bring my overpriced Aerotech tool to re-tighten the closure and perhaps I didn't get it tight enough. ? The antique Estes Saturn 1B flew nicely on a pair of D12-3s, I wanted to fly it again with a couple Aerotech E's, but ran out of time. ? Yes, I do like scale, and I really like Saturns :-) ? My NCR Bomarc powered pranged off the pad with the F40 - apparently an F isn't enough for that big Bomarc (regardless of what the paperwork said). But, again, the damage wasn't serious and it'll fly again (next time on a G).? BTW, has anyone tried a big Bomarc with engines in the ramjet pods? ? The Sheri's Little Joe II (G64W), Estes Pro Series Patriot (4 x D12-7), NCR Interceptor G (G64W), Estes Mercury Atlas (F24), and a nice little 18mm Nike Ajax (D13-7) all had beautiful flights. ? Where do we go to check out all those pictures that everyone was taking? ? Oh, under lost and found, after I got home I discovered I was missing the 18mm Aerotech RMS casing (black with gold nozzle closure).? I suspect I may have dropped it around where I was set up and failed to notice before I left. ? Tim From willey at selby.com Tue May 26 15:48:08 2009 From: willey at selby.com (Stephen Willey Mats Mats) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:48:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread In-Reply-To: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> References: <59ee2a6dbd9f164eade9645e88c07f19@localhost> Message-ID: <7CBF13C2-76C8-447E-8B78-571FDFC4514F@selby.com> I'll add my many thanks to the WAC organizers and peeps of Mansfield. To the lost list I'll add a Rouse Tech CD3 co2 ejection unit. It looks like two anodized aluminum cylinders (the smaller part red and the wider cylinder being black) screwed together with some flanges. The whole thing is about 7-8" long and about an inch in diameter also, it might hav kept it's heat shield cloth over one end. Warning: according to the ARTS2 the ematch was fired which would hav discharged the co2, but I wouldn't assume that to be true until inspected. steve On May 26, 2009, at 9:43:06 PDT, wrote: > > > I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find > anything > good out in the weeds? > > > Lost: > > 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces > of my > PML Calisto...) > 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. > (fluorescent > colors & old FITS stickers) > > > > Found: > > A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers > Sunburn and Dust > > > > We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to > everyone > that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. > > -Michael Garvais > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From sb at berfield.com Tue May 26 22:14:08 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 05:14:08 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] [personal] FITS - a lost and found thread Message-ID: It had not been claimed by the time the range closed. -----Original Message----- From: Daron Johnson [mailto:daron at daronjohnson.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 09:47 AM To: ''Rockets'' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [personal] FITS - a lost and found thread Someone turned in a 38/1080 motor on Sunday. Case was red forward closure was blue. Not sure if someone claimed it by the end of the day or not. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of michael at garvais.net Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:43 AM To: Rockets Subject: [personal] [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find anything good out in the weeds? Lost: 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my PML Calisto...) 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent colors & old FITS stickers) Found: A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers Sunburn and Dust We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to everyone that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. -Michael Garvais _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- It had not been claimed by the time the range closed. -----Original Message----- From: Daron Johnson [mailto:daron at daronjohnson.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 09:47 AM To: ''Rockets'' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [personal] FITS - a lost and found thread Someone turned in a 38/1080 motor on Sunday. Case was red forward closure was blue. Not sure if someone claimed it by the end of the day or not. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of michael at garvais.net Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:43 AM To: Rockets Subject: [personal] [RocketsNW] FITS - a lost and found thread I thought I'd start a lost and found thread. Did you lose or find anything good out in the weeds? Lost: 1 black and gold 38/720 motor case - (also the aft bits and pieces of my PML Calisto...) 1 Sudden Rush rocket with assorted electronics and hardware. (fluorescent colors & old FITS stickers) Found: A real appreciation for the Big Red Bee radio trackers Sunburn and Dust We had a fantastic time at FITS this year. A big thank you to everyone that had a hand in setting up and running this launch. -Michael Garvais _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com Tue May 26 22:59:38 2009 From: whiteboardofsilliness at gmail.com (Dietrich Podmajersky) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 22:59:38 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Report and question on group photo Message-ID: First I'd like to add my Thanks to everyone that put this together.. It was a wonderful launch. This was my second FITS and my second High power launch. We had to leave Sunday afternoon and I didn't manage to find out about getting a copy of the group photo. If somebody could tell me how much money to send and where to send it, to get one it would be much appreciated. Now the Launch report.. Seeing as how last year I flew a L1 cert flight I thought year 2 might be a good opportunity to try for L2. I managed to build a Binder Devastator (called Nuclear Citrus, in honor of the florescent orange and green paint job) and thought it would be the perfect candidate. Saturday contrary to the many questions of " are you a man or a mouse," and suggestions to "Just stuff a J350 in it and go for it", I loaded up an I215 for a shake down flight. Boost was beautiful nice deployment at apogee and an easy recovery just East of the track. So early Sunday found me assembling the J350 cert motor and getting Nuclear Citrus back on a pad just after the waiver opened. Boost was good and deployment on schedule. This time she drifted to the south beyond the road... and managed to land in the only body of standing water for, how many miles... The nosecone and chute were on the shore which allowed me to drag the body in. No damage, so the Cert flight was a success, but it makes me wonder how many rockets that puddle has eaten over the years. Sunday afternoon I was able to also put my new PML Tiny Pterodactyl up on its first flight with a G77. The flight ended with a nice recovery in the dip just to the west of camp. I had brought an AMW G36 skidmark thinking I would put my L1 bird Safety Tractor (a PML pitbull) up on it but I wound up donating that for a Night lauch on Sat. Wow, that was the right decision, as that was a spectacular flight... nothing quite like a skidmark just after sunset. My daugheter Emerald brought a Binder Gangsta and had a nice flight on Sat on an F?? (I forgot the exact motor although I think it was an F20). It was her first mid power flight and was near perfect. Sunday she racked it up again with a G77 and managed to Lawndart it into the race track infield. She was a bit bummed, but now has a Binder Dragonfly to build. Not a lot of flights but a very wonderful weekend including me certifying L2. Thanks again to everyone who organized the launch, and to Carl for bringing the NAR L2 tests. -Dietrich Podmajersky -------------- next part -------------- We had to leave Sunday afternoon and I didn't manage to find out about getting a copy of the group photo.? If somebody could tell me how much money to send and where to send it, to get one it? would be much appreciated. Now the Launch report.. Seeing as how last year I flew a L1 cert flight I thought year 2 might be a good opportunity to try for L2.? I managed to build a Binder Devastator (called Nuclear Citrus, in honor of the florescent orange and green paint job)? and thought it would be the perfect candidate.? Saturday contrary to the many questions of " are you a man or a mouse," and suggestions to "Just stuff a J350 in it and go for it", I loaded up an I215? for a shake down flight.? Boost was beautiful nice deployment at apogee and an easy recovery just East of the track.? So early Sunday found me assembling the J350 cert motor and getting Nuclear Citrus back on a pad just after the waiver opened.? Boost was good and deployment on schedule.? This time she drifted to the south beyond the road... and managed to land in the only body of standing water for, how many miles... The nosecone and chute were on the shore which allowed me to drag the body in.? No damage, so the Cert flight was a success, but it makes me wonder how many rockets that puddle has eaten over the years.? Sunday afternoon I was able to also put my new PML Tiny Pterodactyl up on its first flight with a G77.? The flight ended with a nice recovery in the dip just to the west of camp.? I had brought an AMW G36 skidmark thinking I would put my L1 bird Safety Tractor (a PML pitbull) up on it but I wound up donating that for a Night lauch on Sat.? Wow, that was the right decision, as that was a spectacular flight... nothing quite like a skidmark just after sunset.?? My daugheter Emerald brought a Binder Gangsta and had a nice flight on Sat on an F?? (I forgot the exact motor although I think it was an F20).? It was her first mid power flight and was near perfect.? Sunday she racked it up again with a G77 and managed to Lawndart it into the race track infield.? She was a bit bummed, but now has a Binder Dragonfly to build.? Not a lot of flights but a very wonderful weekend including me certifying L2.? Thanks again to everyone who organized the launch, and to Carl for bringing the NAR L2 tests.? -Dietrich Podmajersky From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed May 27 00:14:58 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 00:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 Launch Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8610cb7afd0a170cc653bed530c615a8.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> I remember as a kid running into little whirlwinds out in the hayfield. That was fun! Then in my older wiser adult years I got run over by some good sized dust devils at desert launches. Found out you can't breathe or keep your eyes open until it passes because of all the dust and there's all kinds of camp objects pelting you...not quite so fun. ;-) Some of those dust devils are F0 class tornadoes. +McG+ > 1st and foremost, my hats off to Mike, Denny, Kent and the town of > Mansfield. This is one awesome launch!!!! > > Planned on leaving Portland early Thur AM, but we found ourselves packed > and ready to go Wed night, so we just left. Made it almost halfway before > sleep took priority. Made it to the site just after noon to find just one > other party (Darren Johnson) there. Quickly set up camp and got the kids > (Tessa & Nate) into the shade. They pointed their chairs towards the road > and announced the new arrivals. By late afternoon it was looking like a > new town had sprouted. > > Both kids made new rockets for FITS. Tessa (12) designed and helped to > build her 4" all fiberglass rocket "Earn Your Paint", while Nate (11) went > the easier route and chose to use a 98mm PR fincan and a section of PML > tubing for a much simpler build of "I'm Colorful". > > Friday being research day, was our big day. Brought 10 research motors, > from H to M, and tried to get them all burned. Almost made it... > > In short the day went like this: > Nate - H230 Wimpy Purple to about 650'. The main didn't get pulled out > completely and came down on the 24" drogue only, with no damage... > Tessa - I351 PDQ to 1,040'. Cracked a fillet on landing (darn rocks) so > Tessa's new rocket was out of commission for the weekend. > Nate - J550 AlumaFlame to 3,300'. Perfect flight and recovery. Nate's > getting stoked now... > Peter - L1222 AlumaFlame in Balls-15, my backup L3 project. Went to > 11,200' and a nice soft landing. > Nate - K987 AlumaFlame to 7,500' and better than Mach 1. Was a real neck > snapper of a flight and a perfect recovery literally 5' from someone's > backyard in Mansfield. > Peter - H420 AlumaFlame in Pyramid #1. Burned thru the case at the end of > the flight, but that just made it more interesting as the pyramid spun > like > a top at apogee. > Peter - J300 Orange Sunset in Pyramid #2. That motor just goes and goes > and goes... > > I was planning to fly 'Balls-15' on an M1800, but after Nate's awesome > K987 > flight I had no need to fly anything else big. > > Saturday was much more relaxed. The kids and I flew an assortment of AT > reloads from D thru H in some of our older projects. Saved a couple of > motors for the night launch, which the kids just loved. Flew a naked FG > rocket on and AT H128 with glowsticks attached, then the smaller pyramid > on > an AT H268 with red glowsticks sticking out the sides. It chuffed once > and > chuffed again then chuffed again almost 5ft up the rod before finally > lighting and screaming into the air. > > Sunday was an even more relaxing day, especially after a long night around > Brads 'Sing-a-Long' fire pit. Just too much fun... > Flew an old Estes kit on a B and C. That left just an 'A' flight to > complete an out of order ladder from A to L. > > Sunday did have one very interesting event, a twister went thru camp and > left quite a mess. All weekend long we'd see these dust devils out in the > distance and Tessa'd ask what it felt like to be in the middle of one. > Well, she'd find out sooner then she'd like. Started as just a little > twisting of the dust right in front of us, so we started following it, > trying to get right in the middle to see how it felt. It kept dancing > away > from us, gradually getting a little bigger. Then it took a big shift to > the right and went right for a lone tent. It tried it's best to remove > the > tent from the ground, but I think one stake held and it moved on, right > towards us and the main camp. She held on tight as the world turned brown > and I told her we weren't in Kansas anymore. Got a brief laugh... 1st, > Sunriver got whacked and all the inventory went flying. Then campsite > after campsite got hit. In the end quite a few EZ-Ups got tossed in the > dumpster. Didn't hear of any injuries other than dust in the eyes. > > Monday was the day we all hate to see arrive, but it did anyway, beautiful > and calm. > Flew my daughters rocket that she won at last years raffle and build on > site. Flew it on an A8-3 with a scrap of doughnut on the nose. The > doughnut stayed on the entire flight. > > The drive home was relatively painless, with frequent stops for ice-cream. > > Our motor distribution: > A-1 > B-1 > C-1 > D-1 > E-1 > F-1 > G-1 > H-5 > I-1 > J-1 > K-1 > L-1 > Total = 16 flights and 3 very happy people! > > Once again, Thanks to all who make this wonderful event happen. The kids > are already looking forward to next year. > > - Peter, Tessa & Nate Ekstrom > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Wed May 27 06:01:57 2009 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 06:01:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Message-ID: Help, I purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos on the cd. What program should I open them with? Thanks, Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 -------------- next part -------------- Help, ? I purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos on the cd. What program should I open them with? ? Thanks, Mark Lyons...computer dumba..???? Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 Check it out. From dmrandall at gmail.com Wed May 27 06:08:33 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 06:08:33 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6bc920e40905270608hf1f29ebi5d91d14e95d0d4ea@mail.gmail.com> Mark, I received a CD from TSolo in the past, and had to use a Mac computer to view the files. Dave On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 6:01 AM, Mark Lyons wrote: > Help, > > I purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos on the cd. What program should I open them with? > > Thanks, > Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 Check it out. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From kent.newman at comcast.net Wed May 27 07:36:47 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 07:36:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary Message-ID: <001701c9ded8$914721b0$b3d56510$@newman@comcast.net> Well, boys and girls, it's official. FITS had roughly a 7% increase in the number of flights over the previous top number. >From the flight cards, there were 481 flights broken down as follows: A 29 B 40 C 45 D 39 E 35 F 52 G 70 H 41 I 40 J 43 K 27 L 9 M 10 N 1 (Clusters are noted as the largest motor being fired. Additionally, the numbers include research and hybrid flights.) Always surprising to me at FITS is the distribution of low, medium and high power motor use: Low power 33.3% Mid power 34.2% High power 32.4% The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all forms is alive and well in the Northwest! Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with all but two being unsuccessful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. Congratulations go to L3 Andrew MacMillen L2 Dietrich Podmajersky Robert Simpson-Clark Rob Jopson Steve Mckibbin Chris Holden Dave Woodard Bryan Whitemarsh Allyne Armitage L1 Mike Bennight Richard Wurdack Dave Woodard Craig Jones Mike Rutledge Robert Geer Rob Jopson Ken Brown Please let me know if I have anyone on the list in error, missed anyone or horribly misspelled someone's name. You know how those flight cards can be J Special thanks for entertaining the crowd go to Dave Randall, Scott Berfield, Michael Dennis and Mike Wyvel for U4EA; John Hawkins for the Mars Snooper; Greg Ashworth, Carl Degner, Jim Nietmann, Neil Anderson, Brad Wright and Denny Smith, Jim Wilkerson, and others for all of those crowd pleasers and a very special thanks to Vern Knowles for flying "Kate" aboard the Knowles' fleet 3 times - simply amazing! And thank the heavens that we didn't run out of toilet paper! To everyone attending FITS 2009, thank you for coming and we hope to see you in October! Kent Newman - L3, L3CC President, Washington Aerospace -------------- next part -------------- Well, boys and girls, it???s official. FITS had roughly a 7% increase in the number of flights over the previous top number. ? From the flight cards, there were 481 flights broken down as follows: ? A???????????? 29 B???????????? 40 C???????????? 45 D???????????? 39 E????????????? 35 F????????????? 52 G???????????? 70 H???????????? 41 I?????????????? 40 J????????????? 43 K???????????? 27 L????????????? 9 M??????????? 10 N???????????? 1 ? (Clusters are noted as the largest motor being fired.? Additionally, the numbers include research and hybrid flights.) ? Always surprising to me at FITS is the distribution of low, medium and high power motor use: ? Low power???????? 33.3% ? Mid power????????? 34.2% ? High power???????? 32.4% ? The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it???s pent-up demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all forms is alive and well in the Northwest! ? Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with all but two being unsuccessful.? L3 attempts were down dramatically but the total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. ? Congratulations go to ? L3??????????? Andrew MacMillen? ? ? L2??????????? Dietrich Podmajersky ??????????????? Robert Simpson-Clark ??????????????? Rob Jopson ??????????????? Steve Mckibbin ??????????????? Chris Holden ??????????????? Dave Woodard ??????????????? Bryan Whitemarsh ??????????????? Allyne Armitage ? L1??????????? Mike Bennight ??????????????? Richard Wurdack ??????????????? Dave Woodard ??????????????? Craig Jones ??????????????? Mike Rutledge ??????????????? Robert Geer ??????????????? Rob Jopson ??????????????? Ken Brown ? Please let me know if I have anyone on the list in error, missed anyone or horribly misspelled someone???s name. You know how those flight cards can be J ? Special thanks for entertaining the crowd go to Dave Randall, Scott Berfield, Michael Dennis and Mike Wyvel for U4EA; John Hawkins for the Mars Snooper; Greg Ashworth, Carl Degner, Jim Nietmann, Neil Anderson, Brad Wright and Denny Smith, Jim Wilkerson, and others for all of those crowd pleasers and a very special thanks to Vern Knowles for flying ???Kate??? aboard the Knowles??? fleet 3 times ??? simply amazing! ? And thank the heavens that we didn???t run out of toilet paper! ? To everyone attending FITS 2009, thank you for coming and we hope to see you in October! ? Kent Newman - L3, L3CC President, Washington Aerospace?? ? ? ? ? From kent.newman at comcast.net Wed May 27 07:40:17 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 07:40:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary In-Reply-To: <001701c9ded8$914721b0$b3d56510$@newman@comcast.net> References: <001701c9ded8$914721b0$b3d56510$@newman@comcast.net> Message-ID: <002201c9ded9$0e0c0cb0$2a242610$@newman@comcast.net> Make that "all but two being successful" on the attempted certification flights line J I'll have to proof before I send next time. K From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Kent Newman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:37 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [WAC-Members] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary Well, boys and girls, it's official. FITS had roughly a 7% increase in the number of flights over the previous top number. >From the flight cards, there were 481 flights broken down as follows: A 29 B 40 C 45 D 39 E 35 F 52 G 70 H 41 I 40 J 43 K 27 L 9 M 10 N 1 (Clusters are noted as the largest motor being fired. Additionally, the numbers include research and hybrid flights.) Always surprising to me at FITS is the distribution of low, medium and high power motor use: Low power 33.3% Mid power 34.2% High power 32.4% The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all forms is alive and well in the Northwest! Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with all but two being successful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. Congratulations go to L3 Andrew MacMillen L2 Dietrich Podmajersky Robert Simpson-Clark Rob Jopson Steve Mckibbin Chris Holden Dave Woodard Bryan Whitemarsh Allyne Armitage L1 Mike Bennight Richard Wurdack Dave Woodard Craig Jones Mike Rutledge Robert Geer Rob Jopson Ken Brown Please let me know if I have anyone on the list in error, missed anyone or horribly misspelled someone's name. You know how those flight cards can be J Special thanks for entertaining the crowd go to Dave Randall, Scott Berfield, Michael Dennis and Mike Wyvel for U4EA; John Hawkins for the Mars Snooper; Greg Ashworth, Carl Degner, Jim Nietmann, Neil Anderson, Brad Wright and Denny Smith, Jim Wilkerson, and others for all of those crowd pleasers and a very special thanks to Vern Knowles for flying "Kate" aboard the Knowles' fleet 3 times - simply amazing! And thank the heavens that we didn't run out of toilet paper! To everyone attending FITS 2009, thank you for coming and we hope to see you in October! Kent Newman - L3, L3CC President, Washington Aerospace -------------- next part -------------- Make that ???all but two being successful??? on the attempted certification flights line J ? I???ll have to proof before I send next time. ? K ? From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Kent Newman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:37 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [WAC-Members] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary ? Well, boys and girls, it???s official. FITS had roughly a 7% increase in the number of flights over the previous top number. ? From the flight cards, there were 481 flights broken down as follows: ? A???????????? 29 B???????????? 40 C???????????? 45 D???????????? 39 E????????????? 35 F????????????? 52 G???????????? 70 H???????????? 41 I?????????????? 40 J????????????? 43 K???????????? 27 L????????????? 9 M??????????? 10 N???????????? 1 ? (Clusters are noted as the largest motor being fired.? Additionally, the numbers include research and hybrid flights.) ? Always surprising to me at FITS is the distribution of low, medium and high power motor use: ? Low power???????? 33.3% ? Mid power????????? 34.2% ? High power???????? 32.4% ? The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it???s pent-up demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all forms is alive and well in the Northwest! ? Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with all but two being successful.? L3 attempts were down dramatically but the total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. ? Congratulations go to ? L3??????????? Andrew MacMillen? ? ? L2??????????? Dietrich Podmajersky ??????????????? Robert Simpson-Clark ??????????????? Rob Jopson ??????????????? Steve Mckibbin ??????????????? Chris Holden ??????????????? Dave Woodard ??????????????? Bryan Whitemarsh ??????????????? Allyne Armitage ? L1??????????? Mike Bennight ??????????????? Richard Wurdack ??????????????? Dave Woodard ??????????????? Craig Jones ??????????????? Mike Rutledge ??????????????? Robert Geer ??????????????? Rob Jopson ??????????????? Ken Brown ? Please let me know if I have anyone on the list in error, missed anyone or horribly misspelled someone???s name. You know how those flight cards can be J ? Special thanks for entertaining the crowd go to Dave Randall, Scott Berfield, Michael Dennis and Mike Wyvel for U4EA; John Hawkins for the Mars Snooper; Greg Ashworth, Carl Degner, Jim Nietmann, Neil Anderson, Brad Wright and Denny Smith, Jim Wilkerson, and others for all of those crowd pleasers and a very special thanks to Vern Knowles for flying ???Kate??? aboard the Knowles??? fleet 3 times ??? simply amazing! ? And thank the heavens that we didn???t run out of toilet paper! ? To everyone attending FITS 2009, thank you for coming and we hope to see you in October! ? Kent Newman - L3, L3CC President, Washington Aerospace?? ? ? ? ? From jhadv at pacifier.com Wed May 27 08:02:35 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 08:02:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Flight Summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527080030.00c3a2c0@mail.iinet.com> At 07:36 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit >greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up >demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all >forms is alive and well in the Northwest! I would speculate that it is proximity to the Puget sound and the engineering and monetary resources available there. Lots of engineers plus lots of money equals lots of big rockets. From fred at azinger.com Wed May 27 08:05:43 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 08:05:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary In-Reply-To: <001701c9ded8$914721b0$b3d56510$@newman@comcast.net> References: <001701c9ded8$914721b0$b3d56510$@newman@comcast.net> Message-ID: <003b01c9dedc$9bc5e960$d351bc20$@com> Did I read this correctly -- there were 17 failed cert flights???? Wow -- If true, I guess we need some mentoring to get this success rate up..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Kent Newman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:37 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary Well, boys and girls, it's official. FITS had roughly a 7% increase in the number of flights over the previous top number. >From the flight cards, there were 481 flights broken down as follows: A 29 B 40 C 45 D 39 E 35 F 52 G 70 H 41 I 40 J 43 K 27 L 9 M 10 N 1 (Clusters are noted as the largest motor being fired. Additionally, the numbers include research and hybrid flights.) Always surprising to me at FITS is the distribution of low, medium and high power motor use: Low power 33.3% Mid power 34.2% High power 32.4% The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all forms is alive and well in the Northwest! Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with all but two being unsuccessful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. Congratulations go to L3 Andrew MacMillen L2 Dietrich Podmajersky Robert Simpson-Clark Rob Jopson Steve Mckibbin Chris Holden Dave Woodard Bryan Whitemarsh Allyne Armitage L1 Mike Bennight Richard Wurdack Dave Woodard Craig Jones Mike Rutledge Robert Geer Rob Jopson Ken Brown Please let me know if I have anyone on the list in error, missed anyone or horribly misspelled someone's name. You know how those flight cards can be J Special thanks for entertaining the crowd go to Dave Randall, Scott Berfield, Michael Dennis and Mike Wyvel for U4EA; John Hawkins for the Mars Snooper; Greg Ashworth, Carl Degner, Jim Nietmann, Neil Anderson, Brad Wright and Denny Smith, Jim Wilkerson, and others for all of those crowd pleasers and a very special thanks to Vern Knowles for flying "Kate" aboard the Knowles' fleet 3 times - simply amazing! And thank the heavens that we didn't run out of toilet paper! To everyone attending FITS 2009, thank you for coming and we hope to see you in October! Kent Newman - L3, L3CC President, Washington Aerospace From dennys at carnitech.net Wed May 27 08:46:17 2009 From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 08:46:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary In-Reply-To: <003b01c9dedc$9bc5e960$d351bc20$@com> References: <001701c9ded8$914721b0$b3d56510$@newman@comcast.net>, <003b01c9dedc$9bc5e960$d351bc20$@com> Message-ID: <35396B48-E80D-4B4F-9B23-2A07E52AAA79@mimectl> It's a typo...2 were unsuccessful. Please tell me you already suspected that was the case... -Denny From: Fred Azinger Sent: Wed 5/27/2009 8:05 AM To: 'Kent Newman'; 'WAC Members' Cc: 'Rockets NW list' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary Did I read this correctly -- there were 17 failed cert flights???? Wow -- If true, I guess we need some mentoring to get this success rate up..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Kent Newman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:37 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary Well, boys and girls, it's official. FITS had roughly a 7% increase in the number of flights over the previous top number. >From the flight cards, there were 481 flights broken down as follows: A 29 B 40 C 45 D 39 E 35 F 52 G 70 H 41 I 40 J 43 K 27 L 9 M 10 N 1 (Clusters are noted as the largest motor being fired. Additionally, the numbers include research and hybrid flights.) Always surprising to me at FITS is the distribution of low, medium and high power motor use: Low power 33.3% Mid power 34.2% High power 32.4% The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all forms is alive and well in the Northwest! Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with all but two being unsuccessful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. Congratulations go to L3 Andrew MacMillen L2 Dietrich Podmajersky Robert Simpson-Clark Rob Jopson Steve Mckibbin Chris Holden Dave Woodard Bryan Whitemarsh Allyne Armitage L1 Mike Bennight Richard Wurdack Dave Woodard Craig Jones Mike Rutledge Robert Geer Rob Jopson Ken Brown Please let me know if I have anyone on the list in error, missed anyone or horribly misspelled someone's name. You know how those flight cards can be J Special thanks for entertaining the crowd go to Dave Randall, Scott Berfield, Michael Dennis and Mike Wyvel for U4EA; John Hawkins for the Mars Snooper; Greg Ashworth, Carl Degner, Jim Nietmann, Neil Anderson, Brad Wright and Denny Smith, Jim Wilkerson, and others for all of those crowd pleasers and a very special thanks to Vern Knowles for flying "Kate" aboard the Knowles' fleet 3 times - simply amazing! And thank the heavens that we didn't run out of toilet paper! To everyone attending FITS 2009, thank you for coming and we hope to see you in October! Kent Newman - L3, L3CC President, Washington Aerospace _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- It's a typo...2 were unsuccessful.? Please tell me you already suspected that was the case... ? -Denny From: Fred Azinger Sent: Wed 5/27/2009 8:05 AM To: 'Kent Newman'; 'WAC Members' Cc: 'Rockets NW list' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary Did I read this correctly -- there were 17 failed cert flights???? Wow -- If true, I guess we need some mentoring to get this success rate up..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Kent Newman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:37 AM To: WAC Members Cc: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary Well, boys and girls, it's official. FITS had roughly a 7% increase in the number of flights over the previous top number. >From the flight cards, there were 481 flights broken down as follows: A 29 B 40 C 45 D 39 E 35 F 52 G 70 H 41 I 40 J 43 K 27 L 9 M 10 N 1 (Clusters are noted as the largest motor being fired. Additionally, the numbers include research and hybrid flights.) Always surprising to me at FITS is the distribution of low, medium and high power motor use: Low power 33.3% Mid power 34.2% High power 32.4% The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all forms is alive and well in the Northwest! Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with all but two being unsuccessful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. Congratulations go to L3 Andrew MacMillen L2 Dietrich Podmajersky Robert Simpson-Clark Rob Jopson Steve Mckibbin Chris Holden Dave Woodard Bryan Whitemarsh Allyne Armitage L1 Mike Bennight Richard Wurdack Dave Woodard Craig Jones Mike Rutledge Robert Geer Rob Jopson Ken Brown Please let me know if I have anyone on the list in error, missed anyone or horribly misspelled someone's name. You know how those flight cards can be J Special thanks for entertaining the crowd go to Dave Randall, Scott Berfield, Michael Dennis and Mike Wyvel for U4EA; John Hawkins for the Mars Snooper; Greg Ashworth, Carl Degner, Jim Nietmann, Neil Anderson, Brad Wright and Denny Smith, Jim Wilkerson, and others for all of those crowd pleasers and a very special thanks to Vern Knowles for flying "Kate" aboard the Knowles' fleet 3 times - simply amazing! And thank the heavens that we didn't run out of toilet paper! To everyone attending FITS 2009, thank you for coming and we hope to see you in October! Kent Newman - L3, L3CC President, Washington Aerospace _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From absworld at cet.com Wed May 27 09:37:51 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 09:37:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00da01c9dee9$7a3e9dc0$6ebbd940$@com> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" format ...... whatever that is? Should be able to download a program of the web that can decipher them. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Help, I purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos on the cd. What program should I open them with? Thanks, Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00 From clappfamily at comcast.net Wed May 27 09:41:10 2009 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:41:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: <00da01c9dee9$7a3e9dc0$6ebbd940$@com> Message-ID: <1686378044.8275481243442470482.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Microsoft has a free RAW viewer.?? Just do a search for it and you should find it. Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek " < absworld @ cet .com> To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:37:51 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] FITS cd pictures I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" format ...... whatever that is? Should be able to download a program of the web that can decipher them. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com [ mailto :rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AM To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com Subject: [ RocketsNW ] FITS cd pictures Help, I purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos on the cd . What program should I open them with? Thanks, Mark Lyons...computer dumba .. _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT : Keep your life in sync. http :// windowslive .com/explore? ocid =TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets@ rocketsnw .com http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets -------------- next part -------------- Microsoft has a free RAW viewer.? Just do a search for it and you should find it. ? ? Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob & Ann Yanecek" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:37:51 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" format ...... whatever that is? Should be able to download a program of the web that can decipher them. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Help, I purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos on the cd. What program should I open them with? Thanks, Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Wed May 27 10:19:07 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 10:19:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527101620.00c2d6b0@mail.iinet.com> At 09:38 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with >all but two being successful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the >total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. Out of curiosity how many were levels I, II and III cert flights and what were the respective success / failure rates? Did the Level II cert flights have to be electronic eject or is Level II electronic eject a new requirement for level III certification? I can't recall. From sb at berfield.com Wed May 27 10:52:23 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:52:23 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Message-ID: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&tabact=DownloadDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews -----Original Message----- From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a program of the web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd picturesHelp, I purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos onthe cd. What program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. _________________________________________________________________Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 -------------- next part -------------- http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&tabact=DownloadDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews ? -----Original Message----- From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" format ...... whatever that is? Should be able to download a program of the web that can decipher them. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Help, I purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos on the cd. What program should I open them with? Thanks, Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 From steve at bestmortgage.com Wed May 27 11:06:50 2009 From: steve at bestmortgage.com (Steve Tytler) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 11:06:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01eb01c9def5$e97989a0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? Thanks, Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&tabact=Downloa dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews -----Original Message----- From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a program of the web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd picturesHelp, I purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos onthe cd. What program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. _________________________________________________________________Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 From dmrandall at gmail.com Wed May 27 11:01:50 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 11:01:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527101620.00c2d6b0@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527101620.00c2d6b0@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905271101y68f61c46o6049111c78a64087@mail.gmail.com> I was a witness for one of the failed L2 certs. The delay was wrong resulting in a zipper on the airframe. It's not clear from inspection whether the delay was too short or too long - a rocksim simulation would clarify though. My guess is too long at 10 seconds. The rocket was a Binder Design Excel Plus built to instruction sheet with no fiberglass on the body. A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. Another fin fillet suffered a minor crack, but nothing that appeared to significantly compromise the rocket's ability to fly again. I'm not aware of any electronics requirement for L2. Dave On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > At 09:38 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with >>all but two being successful. ?L3 attempts were down dramatically but the >>total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. > > Out of curiosity how many were levels I, II and III cert flights and what > were the respective success / failure rates? ?Did the Level II cert flights > have to be electronic eject or is Level II electronic eject a new > requirement for level III certification? ?I can't recall. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From winningstad at comcast.net Wed May 27 11:39:42 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 11:39:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40905271101y68f61c46o6049111c78a64087@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527101620.00c2d6b0@mail.iinet.com> <6bc920e40905271101y68f61c46o6049111c78a64087@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I put a Binder design Stealth up on a J350 for Lvl 2 and it was scary early deploy...was worried about a zip, but it held. IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:02 AM To: Paul Bogdanich Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS I was a witness for one of the failed L2 certs. The delay was wrong resulting in a zipper on the airframe. It's not clear from inspection whether the delay was too short or too long - a rocksim simulation would clarify though. My guess is too long at 10 seconds. The rocket was a Binder Design Excel Plus built to instruction sheet with no fiberglass on the body. A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. Another fin fillet suffered a minor crack, but nothing that appeared to significantly compromise the rocket's ability to fly again. I'm not aware of any electronics requirement for L2. Dave On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > At 09:38 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with >>all but two being successful. ?L3 attempts were down dramatically but the >>total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. > > Out of curiosity how many were levels I, II and III cert flights and what > were the respective success / failure rates? ?Did the Level II cert flights > have to be electronic eject or is Level II electronic eject a new > requirement for level III certification? ?I can't recall. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From vern_knowles at att.net Wed May 27 11:47:12 2009 From: vern_knowles at att.net (Vern Knowles) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:47:12 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: <01eb01c9def5$e97989a0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> References: <01eb01c9def5$e97989a0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> Message-ID: <005601c9defb$8c79a630$0400a8c0@MainPC> I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. (Apologies to Tsolo but I could not resist modifying it slightly.) Here's the link: http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to pay to get it. Vern Knowles www.vernk.com > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > > Thanks, Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& tabact=Downloa > dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > program of the > web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd > picturesHelp, I purchased > a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > onthe cd. What > program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > ______________________________________________________________ > ___Windows > LiveT: Keep your life in > sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ synch_052009 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From steve at bestmortgage.com Wed May 27 12:02:21 2009 From: steve at bestmortgage.com (Steve Tytler) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:02:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: <005601c9defb$8c79a630$0400a8c0@MainPC> References: <01eb01c9def5$e97989a0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> <005601c9defb$8c79a630$0400a8c0@MainPC> Message-ID: <023101c9defd$aa7a3e40$6501a8c0@HDNW1> Vern, Thanks for posting that. Nice job with PhotoShop! LOL I was not aware that the group pic was for sale. I was only there on Saturday, left that night, so nobody told me. Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Vern Knowles Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:47 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. (Apologies to Tsolo but I could not resist modifying it slightly.) Here's the link: http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to pay to get it. Vern Knowles www.vernk.com > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > > Thanks, Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& tabact=Downloa > dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a program of > the web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original > Message-----From: > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd picturesHelp, I > purchased a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > onthe cd. What program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark > Lyons...computer dumba.. > ______________________________________________________________ > ___Windows > LiveT: Keep your life in > sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ synch_052009 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From barwickad at gmail.com Wed May 27 11:52:48 2009 From: barwickad at gmail.com (Andy and Denise Barwick) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 11:52:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary In-Reply-To: <35396B48-E80D-4B4F-9B23-2A07E52AAA79@mimectl> References: <003b01c9dedc$9bc5e960$d351bc20$@com> <35396B48-E80D-4B4F-9B23-2A07E52AAA79@mimectl> Message-ID: You can add one more to the successful L1 cert flights. We were successful on Saturday morning with the Talon 3 on an I305. Thanks to everyone who offered advice and especially Carl for all the help. We had a great time and looking forward to the next launch and maybe L2. Andy Barwick NAR 89144 L1 On 5/27/09, Denny Smith wrote: > It's a typo...2 were unsuccessful. Please tell me you already suspected > that was the case... > > -Denny > > > > From: Fred Azinger > Sent: Wed 5/27/2009 8:05 AM > To: 'Kent Newman'; 'WAC Members' > Cc: 'Rockets NW list' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary > > > Did I read this correctly -- there were 17 failed cert flights???? > Wow -- If true, I guess we need some mentoring to get this success rate > up..... > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Kent Newman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:37 AM > To: WAC Members > Cc: Rockets NW list > Subject: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary > > Well, boys and girls, it's official. FITS had roughly a 7% increase in the > number of flights over the previous top number. > > > > >From the flight cards, there were 481 flights broken down as follows: > > > > A 29 > > B 40 > > C 45 > > D 39 > > E 35 > > F 52 > > G 70 > > H 41 > > I 40 > > J 43 > > K 27 > > L 9 > > M 10 > > N 1 > > > > (Clusters are noted as the largest motor being fired. Additionally, the > numbers include research and hybrid flights.) > > > > Always surprising to me at FITS is the distribution of low, medium and high > power motor use: > > > > Low power 33.3% > > > > Mid power 34.2% > > > > High power 32.4% > > > > The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit > greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up > demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all > forms is alive and well in the Northwest! > > > > Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with > all but two being unsuccessful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the > total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. > > > > Congratulations go to > > > > L3 Andrew MacMillen > > > > L2 Dietrich Podmajersky > > Robert Simpson-Clark > > Rob Jopson > > Steve Mckibbin > > Chris Holden > > Dave Woodard > > Bryan Whitemarsh > > Allyne Armitage > > > > L1 Mike Bennight > > Richard Wurdack > > Dave Woodard > > Craig Jones > > Mike Rutledge > > Robert Geer > > Rob Jopson > > Ken Brown > > > > Please let me know if I have anyone on the list in error, missed anyone or > horribly misspelled someone's name. You know how those flight cards can be > J > > > > Special thanks for entertaining the crowd go to Dave Randall, Scott > Berfield, Michael Dennis and Mike Wyvel for U4EA; John Hawkins for the Mars > Snooper; Greg Ashworth, Carl Degner, Jim Nietmann, Neil Anderson, Brad > Wright and Denny Smith, Jim Wilkerson, and others for all of those crowd > pleasers and a very special thanks to Vern Knowles for flying "Kate" aboard > the Knowles' fleet 3 times - simply amazing! > > > > And thank the heavens that we didn't run out of toilet paper! > > > > To everyone attending FITS 2009, thank you for coming and we hope to see you > in October! > > > > Kent Newman - L3, L3CC > > President, Washington Aerospace > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- Sent from my mobile device From dmrandall at gmail.com Wed May 27 12:01:42 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: <005601c9defb$8c79a630$0400a8c0@MainPC> References: <01eb01c9def5$e97989a0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> <005601c9defb$8c79a630$0400a8c0@MainPC> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905271201x64b06951l328f6205685755d3@mail.gmail.com> Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the water tower before FITS 2010??? Dave On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. ?(Apologies to Tsolo but > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > Here's the link: > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > pay to get it. > > Vern Knowles > www.vernk.com > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures >> >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? >> >> Thanks, Steve >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures >> >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > tabact=Downloa >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures >> >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a >> program of the >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: >> rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd >> picturesHelp, I purchased >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos >> onthe cd. What >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. >> ______________________________________________________________ >> ___Windows >> LiveT: Keep your life in >> sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > synch_052009 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From carl20320 at msn.com Wed May 27 12:40:06 2009 From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:40:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40905271201x64b06951l328f6205685755d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <01eb01c9def5$e97989a0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> <005601c9defb$8c79a630$0400a8c0@MainPC> <6bc920e40905271201x64b06951l328f6205685755d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds like you just volunteered. ;-) Carl > Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 > From: dmrandall at gmail.com > To: vern_knowles at att.net > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the > water tower before FITS 2010??? > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. (Apologies to Tsolo but > > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > > pay to get it. > > > > Vern Knowles > > www.vernk.com > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > >> > >> Thanks, Steve > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > > tabact=Downloa > >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > >> program of the > >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > >> rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd > >> picturesHelp, I purchased > >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > >> onthe cd. What > >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> ___Windows > >> LiveT: Keep your life in > >> sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > > synch_052009 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- ?Sounds like you just volunteered.? ;-) ? Carl ? > Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 > From: dmrandall at gmail.com > To: vern_knowles at att.net > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the > water tower before FITS 2010??? > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. ?(Apologies to Tsolo but > > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > > pay to get it. > > > > Vern Knowles > > www.vernk.com > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > >> > >> Thanks, Steve > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > > tabact=Downloa > >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > >> program of the > >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > >> rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd > >> picturesHelp, I purchased > >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > >> onthe cd. What > >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> ___Windows > >> LiveT: Keep your life in > >> sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > > synch_052009 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kent.newman at comcast.net Wed May 27 12:48:18 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:48:18 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary In-Reply-To: References: <003b01c9dedc$9bc5e960$d351bc20$@com> <35396B48-E80D-4B4F-9B23-2A07E52AAA79@mimectl> Message-ID: <001201c9df04$15dedc80$419c9580$@newman@comcast.net> Thanks, Andy, and please accept my apologies for leaving you off of the list. Kent -----Original Message----- From: Andy and Denise Barwick [mailto:barwickad at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:53 AM To: Denny Smith; Fred Azinger; Kent Newman; WAC Members; Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary You can add one more to the successful L1 cert flights. We were successful on Saturday morning with the Talon 3 on an I305. Thanks to everyone who offered advice and especially Carl for all the help. We had a great time and looking forward to the next launch and maybe L2. Andy Barwick NAR 89144 L1 On 5/27/09, Denny Smith wrote: > It's a typo...2 were unsuccessful. Please tell me you already suspected > that was the case... > > -Denny > > > > From: Fred Azinger > Sent: Wed 5/27/2009 8:05 AM > To: 'Kent Newman'; 'WAC Members' > Cc: 'Rockets NW list' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary > > > Did I read this correctly -- there were 17 failed cert flights???? > Wow -- If true, I guess we need some mentoring to get this success rate > up..... > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Kent Newman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:37 AM > To: WAC Members > Cc: Rockets NW list > Subject: [RocketsNW] 'Fire in the Sky' Flight Summary > > Well, boys and girls, it's official. FITS had roughly a 7% increase in the > number of flights over the previous top number. > > > > >From the flight cards, there were 481 flights broken down as follows: > > > > A 29 > > B 40 > > C 45 > > D 39 > > E 35 > > F 52 > > G 70 > > H 41 > > I 40 > > J 43 > > K 27 > > L 9 > > M 10 > > N 1 > > > > (Clusters are noted as the largest motor being fired. Additionally, the > numbers include research and hybrid flights.) > > > > Always surprising to me at FITS is the distribution of low, medium and high > power motor use: > > > > Low power 33.3% > > > > Mid power 34.2% > > > > High power 32.4% > > > > The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit > greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up > demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all > forms is alive and well in the Northwest! > > > > Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with > all but two being unsuccessful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the > total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. > > > > Congratulations go to > > > > L3 Andrew MacMillen > > > > L2 Dietrich Podmajersky > > Robert Simpson-Clark > > Rob Jopson > > Steve Mckibbin > > Chris Holden > > Dave Woodard > > Bryan Whitemarsh > > Allyne Armitage > > > > L1 Mike Bennight > > Richard Wurdack > > Dave Woodard > > Craig Jones > > Mike Rutledge > > Robert Geer > > Rob Jopson > > Ken Brown > > > > Please let me know if I have anyone on the list in error, missed anyone or > horribly misspelled someone's name. You know how those flight cards can be > J > > > > Special thanks for entertaining the crowd go to Dave Randall, Scott > Berfield, Michael Dennis and Mike Wyvel for U4EA; John Hawkins for the Mars > Snooper; Greg Ashworth, Carl Degner, Jim Nietmann, Neil Anderson, Brad > Wright and Denny Smith, Jim Wilkerson, and others for all of those crowd > pleasers and a very special thanks to Vern Knowles for flying "Kate" aboard > the Knowles' fleet 3 times - simply amazing! > > > > And thank the heavens that we didn't run out of toilet paper! > > > > To everyone attending FITS 2009, thank you for coming and we hope to see you > in October! > > > > Kent Newman - L3, L3CC > > President, Washington Aerospace > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- Sent from my mobile device From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Wed May 27 13:10:01 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 20:10:01 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: References: <01eb01c9def5$e97989a0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> <005601c9defb$8c79a630$0400a8c0@MainPC> <6bc920e40905271201x64b06951l328f6205685755d3@mail.gmail.com>, Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990FBE24@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> yeah seems like a good project for the U4AE team. b ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Degner [carl20320 at msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:40 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Sounds like you just volunteered. ;-) Carl > Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 > From: dmrandall at gmail.com > To: vern_knowles at att.net > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the > water tower before FITS 2010??? > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. (Apologies to Tsolo but > > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > > pay to get it. > > > > Vern Knowles > > www.vernk.com > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > >> > >> Thanks, Steve > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > > tabact=Downloa > >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > >> program of the > >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > >> rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd > >> picturesHelp, I purchased > >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > >> onthe cd. What > >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> ___Windows > >> LiveT: Keep your life in > >> sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > > synch_052009 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Wed May 27 13:05:41 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 20:05:41 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527101620.00c2d6b0@mail.iinet.com> <6bc920e40905271101y68f61c46o6049111c78a64087@mail.gmail.com>, Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990FBDF6@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> There are not any electronics requirements for level 2 certifications. For TRA however there is the following for between L2 and L3: Electronics ? Electronics are not required for level 2 certification flights. However, prior to attempting level 3 certification, the flyer shall successfully fly at least one rocket in the Level 2 impulse range using an electronic device as the primary means of recovery system deployment. This may be their level 2 certification flight or any subsequent flight. ________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:02 AM To: Paul Bogdanich Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS I'm not aware of any electronics requirement for L2. Dave On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > At 09:38 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with >>all but two being successful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the >>total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. > > Out of curiosity how many were levels I, II and III cert flights and what > were the respective success / failure rates? Did the Level II cert flights > have to be electronic eject or is Level II electronic eject a new > requirement for level III certification? I can't recall. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Wed May 27 13:16:55 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 13:16:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990FBE24@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <01eb01c9def5$e97989a0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> <005601c9defb$8c79a630$0400a8c0@MainPC> <6bc920e40905271201x64b06951l328f6205685755d3@mail.gmail.com>, <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990FBE24@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <010101c9df08$15008da0$3f01a8e0$@net> Brad - Are you and Denny going to supply the motor? That would be a spectacular Purple Helmet flight. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:10 PM To: Carl Degner; Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures yeah seems like a good project for the U4AE team. b ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Degner [carl20320 at msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:40 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Sounds like you just volunteered. ;-) Carl > Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 > From: dmrandall at gmail.com > To: vern_knowles at att.net > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the > water tower before FITS 2010??? > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. (Apologies to Tsolo but > > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > > pay to get it. > > > > Vern Knowles > > www.vernk.com > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > >> > >> Thanks, Steve > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > > tabact=Downloa > >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > >> program of the > >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > >> rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd > >> picturesHelp, I purchased > >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > >> onthe cd. What > >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> ___Windows > >> LiveT: Keep your life in > >> sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > > synch_052009 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From t.j.doll at att.net Wed May 27 13:17:27 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 20:17:27 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Message-ID: <052720092017.21798.4A1D9FD70002A3750000552622230647629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> How do we go about getting the FITS Picture CD? Tim -------------- next part -------------- How do we go about getting the FITS Picture CD? ? Tim From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Wed May 27 13:18:37 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 20:18:37 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures In-Reply-To: <010101c9df08$15008da0$3f01a8e0$@net> References: <01eb01c9def5$e97989a0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> <005601c9defb$8c79a630$0400a8c0@MainPC> <6bc920e40905271201x64b06951l328f6205685755d3@mail.gmail.com>, <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990FBE24@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>, <010101c9df08$15008da0$3f01a8e0$@net> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990FBE75@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> need more AP....... ________________________________________ From: Marty2 [MartyWeiser at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:16 PM To: Brad Wright; 'Carl Degner'; 'Rockets NW list' Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Brad - Are you and Denny going to supply the motor? That would be a spectacular Purple Helmet flight. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:10 PM To: Carl Degner; Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures yeah seems like a good project for the U4AE team. b ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Degner [carl20320 at msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:40 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Sounds like you just volunteered. ;-) Carl > Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 > From: dmrandall at gmail.com > To: vern_knowles at att.net > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the > water tower before FITS 2010??? > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. (Apologies to Tsolo but > > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > > pay to get it. > > > > Vern Knowles > > www.vernk.com > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > >> > >> Thanks, Steve > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > > tabact=Downloa > >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > >> program of the > >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > >> rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd > >> picturesHelp, I purchased > >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > >> onthe cd. What > >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> ___Windows > >> LiveT: Keep your life in > >> sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > > synch_052009 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Wed May 27 14:21:52 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 21:21:52 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Message-ID: Change the fins a bit and paint it red and it could be a FITSboy. -----Original Message----- From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 01:16 PM To: ''Brad Wright'', ''Carl Degner'', ''Rockets NW list'' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Brad - Are you and Denny going to supply the motor? That would be a spectacular Purple Helmet flight. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:10 PM To: Carl Degner; Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures yeah seems like a good project for the U4AE team. b ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Degner [carl20320 at msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:40 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Sounds like you just volunteered. ;-) Carl > Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 > From: dmrandall at gmail.com > To: vern_knowles at att.net > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the > water tower before FITS 2010??? > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. (Apologies to Tsolo but > > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > > pay to get it. > > > > Vern Knowles > > www.vernk.com > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > >> > >> Thanks, Steve > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > > tabact=Downloa > >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > >> program of the > >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > >> rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd > >> picturesHelp, I purchased > >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > >> onthe cd. What > >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> ___Windows > >> LiveT: Keep your life in > >> sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > > synch_052009 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Change?the fins a bit and paint it red and it could be a FITSboy. -----Original Message----- From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 01:16 PM To: ''Brad Wright'', ''Carl Degner'', ''Rockets NW list'' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Brad - Are you and Denny going to supply the motor? That would be a spectacular Purple Helmet flight. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:10 PM To: Carl Degner; Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures yeah seems like a good project for the U4AE team. b ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Degner [carl20320 at msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:40 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Sounds like you just volunteered. ;-) Carl > Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 > From: dmrandall at gmail.com > To: vern_knowles at att.net > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the > water tower before FITS 2010??? > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site. (Apologies to Tsolo but > > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > > pay to get it. > > > > Vern Knowles > > www.vernk.com > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > >> > >> Thanks, Steve > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > > tabact=Downloa > >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > >> program of the > >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > >> rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd > >> picturesHelp, I purchased > >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > >> onthe cd. What > >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> ___Windows > >> LiveT: Keep your life in > >> sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > > synch_052009 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Mfreptiles at aol.com Wed May 27 14:30:31 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:30:31 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Message-ID: The plywood we currently use is 10 ply aircraft grade meeting Lloyds GL-2 specifications for aircraft plywood. Several years ago we switched over from five ply to ten ply. Ten ply in 3/16" thickness. Optimal delay for the Excel Plus on the J350 is ~12 seconds assuming close to vertical flight. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) -------------- next part -------------- The plywood we currently use is 10 ply aircraft grade?meeting Lloyds GL-2 specifications for aircraft plywood.? Several years ago we switched over from five ply to ten ply.? Ten ply in 3/16" thickness.? ? Optimal delay for the Excel Plus on the J350 is ~12 seconds assuming close to vertical flight.? ? Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design ? In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line.? Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From Mfreptiles at aol.com Wed May 27 14:34:12 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:34:12 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Message-ID: Now, Dennis, your Stealth would have weighed about three times as much with G-10 fins, and needed a lot of nose-weight. No problem if you are flying on K motors, but a lot of people like to fly them on H's. Putting G-10 fins on a cardboard tube rocket does not make much sense IMO. Mike F. In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:39:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) -------------- next part -------------- Now, Dennis, your Stealth would have weighed about three times as much with G-10 fins, and needed a lot of nose-weight.? No problem if you are flying on K motors, but a lot of people like to fly them on H's.? Putting G-10 fins on a cardboard tube rocket does not make much sense IMO. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:39:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From winningstad at comcast.net Wed May 27 14:38:28 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:38:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F1CDC7A5CAF481288C1B0E1DE19459C@downstair> Makes sense when it comes blowing sideways and bounces off a fence post or rock or car or porta potty or .gotta admit, the fins on that Stealth were HUGE. Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. _____ From: Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:34 PM To: winningstad at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Now, Dennis, your Stealth would have weighed about three times as much with G-10 fins, and needed a lot of nose-weight. No problem if you are flying on K motors, but a lot of people like to fly them on H's. Putting G-10 fins on a cardboard tube rocket does not make much sense IMO. Mike F. In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:39:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... _____ We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. -------------- next part -------------- Makes sense when it comes blowing sideways and bounces off a fence post or rock or car or porta potty or ???gotta admit, the fins on that Stealth were HUGE??? ? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 ? It is bad luck to be superstitious. From: Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:34 PM To: winningstad at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS ? Now, Dennis, your Stealth would have weighed about three times as much with G-10 fins, and needed a lot of nose-weight.? No problem if you are flying on K motors, but a lot of people like to fly them on H's.? Putting G-10 fins on a cardboard tube rocket does not make much sense IMO. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:39:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... ? We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Wed May 27 14:37:50 2009 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <224823.95635.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Come on Mike. Your talking about someone that puts a K in a Thug. :o) John H ________________________________ From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" To: winningstad at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:34:12 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Now, Dennis, your Stealth would have weighed about three times as much with G-10 fins, and needed a lot of nose-weight.? No problem if you are flying on K motors, but a lot of people like to fly them on H's.? Putting G-10 fins on a cardboard tube rocket does not make much sense IMO. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:39:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . -------------- next part -------------- Come on Mike. Your talking about someone that puts a K in a Thug. :o) ? John H From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" To: winningstad at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:34:12 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Now, Dennis, your Stealth would have weighed about three times as much with G-10 fins, and needed a lot of nose-weight.? No problem if you are flying on K motors, but a lot of people like to fly them on H's.? Putting G-10 fins on a cardboard tube rocket does not make much sense IMO. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:39:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mailto:winningstad at comcast.net winningstad at comcast.net writes: IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore http://whereitsat.com/ WhereItsAt.com . From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Wed May 27 14:47:14 2009 From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (bwhitemarsh at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 21:47:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1605640666.11770301243460834966.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> For what it's worth, I flew my Binder Velociraptor on a K550W twice at FITS this weekend with absolutely no problem at all with the plywood fins.?? Boost was great both times, fins are still pristine.?? Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: dmrandall at gmail.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:30:31 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS The plywood we currently use is 10 ply aircraft grade meeting Lloyds GL-2 specifications for aircraft plywood. Several years ago we switched over from five ply to ten ply. Ten ply in 3/16" thickness. Optimal delay for the Excel Plus on the J350 is ~12 seconds assuming close to vertical flight. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. **************We found the real ???Hotel California??? and the ???Seinfeld??? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- For what it's worth, I flew my Binder Velociraptor on a K550W twice at FITS this weekend with absolutely no problem at all with the plywood fins.? Boost was great both times, fins are still pristine.? ? Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: dmrandall at gmail.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:30:31 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS The plywood we currently use is 10 ply aircraft grade meeting Lloyds GL-2 specifications for aircraft plywood. Several years ago we switched over from five ply to ten ply. Ten ply in 3/16" thickness. Optimal delay for the Excel Plus on the J350 is ~12 seconds assuming close to vertical flight. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. **************We found the real ???Hotel California??? and the ???Seinfeld??? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From melamy at earthlink.net Wed May 27 14:58:54 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 Estes Oracle video Message-ID: <865244.1243461535142.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> one of my flights this last weekend was an Estes Oracle video rocket that I have had for a few years. Sunday was its maiden flight and I thought the video came out pretty well considering the low resolution of the camera. The video show nearly the entire camp site while the rocket was headed up and over. You can use the link below to go see it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRZgcCX0v6g Best regards, Steve Thatcher From winningstad at comcast.net Wed May 27 16:25:55 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:25:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 Estes Oracle video In-Reply-To: <865244.1243461535142.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <865244.1243461535142.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: That was, like, way-cool...to the MAX! Lots-O-cars out there...maybe next... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of melamy at earthlink.net Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:59 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 Estes Oracle video one of my flights this last weekend was an Estes Oracle video rocket that I have had for a few years. Sunday was its maiden flight and I thought the video came out pretty well considering the low resolution of the camera. The video show nearly the entire camp site while the rocket was headed up and over. You can use the link below to go see it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRZgcCX0v6g Best regards, Steve Thatcher _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winningstad at comcast.net Wed May 27 16:28:12 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:28:12 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: <1605640666.11770301243460834966.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1605640666.11770301243460834966.JavaMail.root@sz0028a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <0C0171EF00AF4C2CAB4A733A94A63089@downstair> Yes, plywood usually works and I've had many successful flights with plywood, but when it comes in sideways in a 5mph or greater wind and bounces off a rock or fence post, or CAR (!) or... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:47 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS For what it's worth, I flew my Binder Velociraptor on a K550W twice at FITS this weekend with absolutely no problem at all with the plywood fins.? Boost was great both times, fins are still pristine.? Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: dmrandall at gmail.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:30:31 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS The plywood we currently use is 10 ply aircraft grade meeting Lloyds GL-2 specifications for aircraft plywood. Several years ago we switched over from five ply to ten ply. Ten ply in 3/16" thickness. Optimal delay for the Excel Plus on the J350 is ~12 seconds assuming close to vertical flight. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From dmrandall at gmail.com Wed May 27 16:29:42 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:29:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] More in-flight video from FITS Message-ID: <6bc920e40905271629k2b5b0a46t47ebdba6c142ffb0@mail.gmail.com> Team U4EA had two on-board cameras for the big U4EA rocket. They are also posted online for your enjoyment! >From inside the rocket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWboPqeZxes >From the side of the rocket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdqvdaC72hE Notice the burn duration of the J motors before the rocket lifts off on the N motor! -- - Dave From winningstad at comcast.net Wed May 27 16:32:39 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:32:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: <224823.95635.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <224823.95635.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have never glassed a rocket, Mike. Cardboard is fine! John, that Thug kit was specially assembled by Mike with those stronger goodies :D Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Hornsby Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:38 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Come on Mike. Your talking about someone that puts a K in a Thug. :o) John H ________________________________ From: "Mfreptiles at aol.com" To: winningstad at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:34:12 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Now, Dennis, your Stealth would have weighed about three times as much with G-10 fins, and needed a lot of nose-weight.? No problem if you are flying on K motors, but a lot of people like to fly them on H's.? Putting G-10 fins on a cardboard tube rocket does not make much sense IMO. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:39:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From Mfreptiles at aol.com Wed May 27 16:38:32 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 19:38:32 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Message-ID: Good thing Dennis didn't notice when he signed off on my successful L3 cert that I used plywood fins. :) Mach 1.6 and 17K'. Plywood is more resistant to flutter than G-10 FWIW. Mike F. In a message dated 5/27/2009 4:27:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: Yes, plywood usually works and I've had many successful flights with plywood, but when it comes in sideways in a 5mph or greater wind and bounces off a rock or fence post, or CAR (!) or... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:47 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS For what it's worth, I flew my Binder Velociraptor on a K550W twice at FITS this weekend with absolutely no problem at all with the plywood fins. Boost was great both times, fins are still pristine. Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: dmrandall at gmail.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:30:31 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS The plywood we currently use is 10 ply aircraft grade meeting Lloyds GL-2 specifications for aircraft plywood. Several years ago we switched over from five ply to ten ply. Ten ply in 3/16" thickness. Optimal delay for the Excel Plus on the J350 is ~12 seconds assuming close to vertical flight. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. **************We found the real ???Hotel California??? and the ???Seinfeld??? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************We found the real ???Hotel California??? and the ???Seinfeld??? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) -------------- next part -------------- Good thing Dennis didn't notice when he signed off on my successful L3 cert that I used plywood fins. :)? Mach 1.6 and 17K'.? Plywood is more resistant to flutter than G-10 FWIW. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/27/2009 4:27:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: Yes, plywood usually works and I've had many successful flights with plywood, but when it comes in sideways in a 5mph or greater wind and bounces off a rock or fence post, or CAR (!) or... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:47 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS For what it's worth, I flew my Binder Velociraptor on a K550W twice at FITS this weekend with absolutely no problem at all with the plywood fins.? Boost was great both times, fins are still pristine.? Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: dmrandall at gmail.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:30:31 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS The plywood we currently use is 10 ply aircraft grade meeting Lloyds GL-2 specifications for aircraft plywood. Several years ago we switched over from five ply to ten ply. Ten ply in 3/16" thickness. Optimal delay for the Excel Plus on the J350 is ~12 seconds assuming close to vertical flight. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. **************We found the real ???Hotel California??? and the ???Seinfeld??? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From winningstad at comcast.net Wed May 27 16:50:02 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:50:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey MIKEY! We disgusted the project from concept to flight.didn't we??? I can not answer the flutter question, but 'Jack Booted Thug' went mach1.2 on that K1100 :D All the way up to about 5K feet .which is just barely higher than a 'regular' Thug on a big I motor.something about drag or some such animal. Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. _____ From: Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 4:39 PM To: winningstad at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Good thing Dennis didn't notice when he signed off on my successful L3 cert that I used plywood fins. :) Mach 1.6 and 17K'. Plywood is more resistant to flutter than G-10 FWIW. Mike F. In a message dated 5/27/2009 4:27:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: Yes, plywood usually works and I've had many successful flights with plywood, but when it comes in sideways in a 5mph or greater wind and bounces off a rock or fence post, or CAR (!) or... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:47 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS For what it's worth, I flew my Binder Velociraptor on a K550W twice at FITS this weekend with absolutely no problem at all with the plywood fins. Boost was great both times, fins are still pristine. Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: dmrandall at gmail.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:30:31 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS The plywood we currently use is 10 ply aircraft grade meeting Lloyds GL-2 specifications for aircraft plywood. Several years ago we switched over from five ply to ten ply. Ten ply in 3/16" thickness. Optimal delay for the Excel Plus on the J350 is ~12 seconds assuming close to vertical flight. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. **************We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _____ We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. -------------- next part -------------- Hey MIKEY! We disgusted the project from concept to flight???didn???t we??? I can not answer the flutter question, but ???Jack Booted Thug??? went mach1.2 on that K1100 :D All the way up to about 5K feet ???which is just barely higher than a ???regular??? Thug on a big I motor???something about drag or some such animal??? ? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 ? It is bad luck to be superstitious. From: Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 4:39 PM To: winningstad at comcast.net ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS ? Good thing Dennis didn't notice when he signed off on my successful L3 cert that I used plywood fins. :)? Mach 1.6 and 17K'.? Plywood is more resistant to flutter than G-10 FWIW. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/27/2009 4:27:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: Yes, plywood usually works and I've had many successful flights with plywood, but when it comes in sideways in a 5mph or greater wind and bounces off a rock or fence post, or CAR (!) or... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of bwhitemarsh at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:47 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS For what it's worth, I flew my Binder Velociraptor on a K550W twice at FITS this weekend with absolutely no problem at all with the plywood fins.? Boost was great both times, fins are still pristine.? Bryan Whitemarsh ----- Original Message ----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: dmrandall at gmail.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:30:31 PM GMT -08:00 US / Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS The plywood we currently use is 10 ply aircraft grade meeting Lloyds GL-2 specifications for aircraft plywood. Several years ago we switched over from five ply to ten ply. Ten ply in 3/16" thickness. Optimal delay for the Excel Plus on the J350 is ~12 seconds assuming close to vertical flight. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design In a message dated 5/27/2009 11:34:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dmrandall at gmail.com writes: A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. **************We found the real ???Hotel California??? and the ???Seinfeld??? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? ? We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From melamy at earthlink.net Wed May 27 16:56:18 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 16:56:18 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Message-ID: <22165447.1243468578894.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> you could have a completely clear landing zone except for one lone rock and the rocket's rear end will still find the rock... Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: Dennis Winningstad >Sent: May 27, 2009 4:28 PM >To: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS > >Yes, plywood usually works and I've had many successful flights with >plywood, but when it comes in sideways in a 5mph or greater wind and bounces >off a rock or fence post, or CAR (!) or... > >Dennis S Winningstad >503-781-3529 > >It is bad luck to be superstitious. From Mfreptiles at aol.com Wed May 27 17:17:00 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 20:17:00 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS Message-ID: Yes, it was well reviewed by both you and Kimberly Harms. Just trying to get your goat. :) Mike In a message dated 5/27/2009 4:49:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: Hey MIKEY! We disgusted the project from concept to flight.didn't we??? **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) -------------- next part -------------- Yes, it was well reviewed by both you and Kimberly Harms.? Just trying to get your goat. :) ? Mike ? In a message dated 5/27/2009 4:49:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: Hey MIKEY!? We disgusted the project from concept to flight.didn't we???? We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed May 27 18:03:29 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 18:03:29 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda June 4th 2009 Message-ID: <24A96965174D41ED822C8EFC81539CBE@LaptopKrausert> The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on June 4th 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's [ Map ] 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : Welcome New Members 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville - May Recap & 2009 Schedule [Packard] 7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Recap [Ryerse] 7:45 : Financial Update [Moscoe] 7:50 : Close on Spring Thunder '09; Successes, Improvements, Stats [Krausert/Goncher] 7:55 : Approval to Restock on T-shirts & Hats Approval to club trailer maintenance before Sheridan [Krausert] 8:00 : President's Choice (Don't miss it) [Krausert/all] If there was ever a meeting to attend, this might be one. I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday June 4th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President -------------- next part -------------- The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on June 4th 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's [ Map ] 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : Welcome New Members 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville -?May Recap & 2009 Schedule [Packard] 7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Recap [Ryerse] 7:45 : Financial Update [Moscoe] 7:50 : Close on Spring Thunder '09; Successes, Improvements, Stats [Krausert/Goncher] 7:55 : Approval to Restock on T-shirts & Hats ?????????? Approval to club trailer maintenance before Sheridan [Krausert] 8:00 : President's Choice (Don't miss it) [Krausert/all] If there was ever?a meeting to attend, this might be one.?I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday June 4th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President From bar0051 at homenetnw.net Wed May 27 18:08:44 2009 From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 18:08:44 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527101620.00c2d6b0@mail.iinet.com><6bc920e40905271101y68f61c46o6049111c78a64087@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <60ED11ACA5A649598324F7D424C77099@MEDIONDeskTop> I have flown my basicly stock Binder Design ExelPlus on a J570 with no trouble, though I did not use motor ejection, just a Perfectflite. My experince is that even the extra long delay is not long enough to use as motor backup in my ExelPlus with anything bigger than a I161 Bryon Schopp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Winningstad" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS I put a Binder design Stealth up on a J350 for Lvl 2 and it was scary early deploy...was worried about a zip, but it held. IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:02 AM To: Paul Bogdanich Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS I was a witness for one of the failed L2 certs. The delay was wrong resulting in a zipper on the airframe. It's not clear from inspection whether the delay was too short or too long - a rocksim simulation would clarify though. My guess is too long at 10 seconds. The rocket was a Binder Design Excel Plus built to instruction sheet with no fiberglass on the body. A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on landing above the fillet line. Some other flyers that were consulted expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to have snapped off in a pretty straight line. Another fin fillet suffered a minor crack, but nothing that appeared to significantly compromise the rocket's ability to fly again. I'm not aware of any electronics requirement for L2. Dave On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > At 09:38 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights with >>all but two being successful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the >>total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. > > Out of curiosity how many were levels I, II and III cert flights and what > were the respective success / failure rates? Did the Level II cert flights > have to be electronic eject or is Level II electronic eject a new > requirement for level III certification? I can't recall. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From mrrominwa at yahoo.com Wed May 27 18:12:28 2009 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 18:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Message-ID: <361367.64896.qm@web53110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> who is the crew gonna be --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Brad Wright wrote: From: Brad Wright Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures To: "Marty2" , "'Carl Degner'" , "'Rockets NW list'" Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 1:18 PM need more AP....... ________________________________________ From: Marty2 [MartyWeiser at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:16 PM To: Brad Wright; 'Carl Degner'; 'Rockets NW list' Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Brad - Are you and Denny going to supply the motor?? That would be a spectacular Purple Helmet flight. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:10 PM To: Carl Degner; Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures yeah seems like a good project for the U4AE team. b ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Carl Degner [carl20320 at msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:40 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Sounds like you just volunteered.? ;-) Carl > Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 > From: dmrandall at gmail.com > To: vern_knowles at att.net > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the > water tower before FITS 2010??? > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles wrote: > > > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site.? (Apologies to Tsolo but > > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > > pay to get it. > > > > Vern Knowles > > www.vernk.com > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > >> > >> Thanks, Steve > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > > tabact=Downloa > >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto:absworld at cet.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > >> program of the > >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > >> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]On > >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > >> rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] FITS cd > >> picturesHelp, I purchased > >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > >> onthe cd. What > >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> ___Windows > >> LiveT: Keep your life in > >> sync.http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > > synch_052009 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- who is the crew gonna be --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Brad Wright wrote: From: Brad Wright Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures To: "Marty2" , "'Carl Degner'" , "'Rockets NW list'" Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 1:18 PM need more AP....... ________________________________________ From: Marty2 [ http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=MartyWeiser at comcast.net MartyWeiser at comcast.net ] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:16 PM To: Brad Wright; 'Carl Degner'; 'Rockets NW list' Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Brad - Are you and Denny going to supply the motor?? That would be a spectacular Purple Helmet flight. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:10 PM To: Carl Degner; Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures yeah seems like a good project for the U4AE team. b ________________________________________ From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [ http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] on behalf of Carl Degner [ http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carl20320 at msn.com carl20320 at msn.com ] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:40 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures Sounds like you just volunteered.? ;-) Carl > Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:01:42 -0700 > From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dmrandall at gmail.com dmrandall at gmail.com > To: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vern_knowles at att.net vern_knowles at att.net > CC: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > > Who's going to build the nosecone and fins that we can install on the > water tower before FITS 2010??? > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Vern Knowles < http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vern_knowles at att.net vern_knowles at att.net > wrote: > > > > I have a low resolution version of the group photo posted on my web site.? (Apologies to Tsolo but > > I could not resist modifying it slightly.) > > > > Here's the link: > > http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg http://www.vernk.com/images/FITS2009/FITS2009_WaterTowerRocket.jpg > > > > > > I will not be posting a high res version since that's not fair to Tsolo or the people that had to > > pay to get it. > > > > Vern Knowles > > www.vernk.com > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Steve Tytler > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:07 PM > >> To: 'Scott Berfield'; 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> Can somebody upload the groups pics so we can download them? > >> > >> Thanks, Steve > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] > >> On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM > >> To: Bob & Ann Yanecek; http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct& > > tabact=Downloa > >> dDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=314&modelid=15206#reviews > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bob & Ann Yanecek [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=absworld at cet.com absworld at cet.com ] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 09:37 AM > >> To: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FITS cd pictures > >> > >> I talked to Tsolo and he reports that those pix are in "CANNON RAW" > >> format...... whatever that is?Should be able to download a > >> program of the > >> web that can decipher them.Bob Yanecek-----Original Message-----From: > >> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ]On > >> Behalf Of Mark LyonsSent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:02 AMTo: > >> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject : [RocketsNW] FITS cd > >> picturesHelp, I purchased > >> a group photo from Tsolo3, but can't view any of the photos > >> onthe cd. What > >> program should I open them with? Thanks,Mark Lyons...computer dumba.. > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> ___Windows > >> LiveT: Keep your life in > >> sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_ > > synch_052009 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc531.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Wed May 27 17:14:33 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:14:33 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS2009 pics Message-ID: <4A1DD769.1000901@earthlink.net> I've posted a few FITS2009 pics on the RocketsNW Image Gallery. http://www.rocketsnw.com/ Robert From dmrandall at gmail.com Wed May 27 20:57:05 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 20:57:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS In-Reply-To: <60ED11ACA5A649598324F7D424C77099@MEDIONDeskTop> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527101620.00c2d6b0@mail.iinet.com> <6bc920e40905271101y68f61c46o6049111c78a64087@mail.gmail.com> <60ED11ACA5A649598324F7D424C77099@MEDIONDeskTop> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905272057r10924912s9573a7a10147b46b@mail.gmail.com> I've flown my Excel Plus unglassed on a K185 and a K1100T - without incident. Although, I did use the electronics bay and altimeter for dual deploy. Great kit, one of my favorites. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Bryon Schopp wrote: > I have flown my basicly stock Binder Design ExelPlus on a J570 with no > trouble, though I did not use motor ejection, just a Perfectflite. ?My > experince is that even the extra long delay is not long enough to use as > motor backup in my ExelPlus with anything bigger than a I161 > > Bryon Schopp > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Winningstad" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:39 AM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS > > > I put a Binder design Stealth up on a J350 for Lvl 2 and it was scary early > deploy...was worried about a zip, but it held. > > IMHO plywood is for airplanes; G10 is for rockets... > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dave Randall > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:02 AM > To: Paul Bogdanich > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] CERT FLIGHTS AT FITS > > I was a witness for one of the failed L2 certs. ?The delay was wrong > resulting in a zipper on the airframe. ?It's not clear from inspection > whether the delay was too short or too long - a rocksim simulation > would clarify though. ?My guess is too long at 10 seconds. ?The rocket > was a Binder Design Excel Plus built to instruction sheet with no > fiberglass on the body. > > A separate issue occurred whereby one of the fins snapped off on > landing above the fillet line. ?Some other flyers that were consulted > expressed concern that the plywood may have been weak - it seems to > have snapped off in a pretty straight line. ?Another fin fillet > suffered a minor crack, but nothing that appeared to significantly > compromise the rocket's ability to fly again. > > I'm not aware of any electronics requirement for L2. > > Dave > > On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: >> At 09:38 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>>Again, from the flight cards, 19 fliers attempted certification flights > with >>>all but two being successful. L3 attempts were down dramatically but the >>>total numbers were kept high by the attempts for L1 and L2. >> >> Out of curiosity how many were levels I, II and III cert flights and what >> were the respective success / failure rates? Did the Level II cert > flights >> have to be electronic eject or is Level II electronic eject a new >> requirement for level III certification? I can't recall. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu May 28 03:30:31 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 03:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Flight Summary In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527080030.00c3a2c0@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090527080030.00c3a2c0@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <98c508431b431dcf1b1529be518a963a.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> The Mathcad worksheet to extract the distributions from this motor usage data is still lost in limbo somewhere on an old computer or(ugh!)its backup tapes. But the data looks like it would fit pretty well into what was a fairly common trimodal model with peaks at C, G, and J. It's that J motor distribution that represents the rocketeers with fatter wallets. But flyers upscale for big annual launches. LDRS typically saw a two-class jump in average motor size over the more frequent and more local launches like Brothers. If Seattle area rocketeers look at FITS the same way, going from 60 acres to Mansfield, that could explain some of the larger rockets. +McG+ > At 07:36 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit >>greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up >>demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all >>forms is alive and well in the Northwest! > > > I would speculate that it is proximity to the Puget sound and the > engineering and monetary resources available there. Lots of engineers > plus > lots of money equals lots of big rockets. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Thu May 28 08:42:01 2009 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:42:01 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Flight Summary Message-ID: The switch from 60 acres to Mansfield certainly explains the increase in M flights! -Robert In a message dated 5/28/2009 3:31:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: The Mathcad worksheet to extract the distributions from this motor usage data is still lost in limbo somewhere on an old computer or(ugh!)its backup tapes. But the data looks like it would fit pretty well into what was a fairly common trimodal model with peaks at C, G, and J. It's that J motor distribution that represents the rocketeers with fatter wallets. But flyers upscale for big annual launches. LDRS typically saw a two-class jump in average motor size over the more frequent and more local launches like Brothers. If Seattle area rocketeers look at FITS the same way, going from 60 acres to Mansfield, that could explain some of the larger rockets. +McG+ > At 07:36 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit >>greater than at most open launches of this type. Perhaps it's pent-up >>demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all >>forms is alive and well in the Northwest! > > > I would speculate that it is proximity to the Puget sound and the > engineering and monetary resources available there. Lots of engineers > plus > lots of money equals lots of big rockets. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004) -------------- next part -------------- The switch from 60 acres to Mansfield certainly explains the increase in M flights! -Robert ? In a message dated 5/28/2009 3:31:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: The Mathcad worksheet to extract the distributions from this motor usage data is still lost in limbo somewhere on an old computer or(ugh!)its backup tapes.? But the data looks like it would fit pretty well into what was a fairly common trimodal model with peaks at C, G, and J.? It's that J motor distribution that represents the rocketeers with fatter wallets. But flyers upscale for big annual launches.? LDRS typically saw a two-class jump in average motor size over the more frequent and more local launches like Brothers.? If Seattle area rocketeers look at FITS the same way, going from 60 acres to Mansfield, that could explain some of the larger rockets. +McG+ > At 07:36 AM 5/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>The distribution for mid, and, in particular, high power is quite a bit >>greater than at most open launches of this type.?? Perhaps it's pent-up >>demand, but, regardless, one can only surmise that hobby rocketry in all >>forms is alive and well in the Northwest! > > > I would speculate that it is proximity to the Puget sound and the > engineering and monetary resources available there.? Lots of engineers > plus > lots of money equals lots of big rockets. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From melamy at earthlink.net Thu May 28 09:52:07 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] WheatChex or Dayton... Anyone going from Seattle or Spokane? Message-ID: <4001975.1243529527585.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I am trying to find a ride either back from Spokane on Sunday from WheatChex or to Dayton Friday night from Spokane. I am on a business trip that basically ends in Spokane on Friday, SO I am trying to figure out how to do one or the other destination. I will be riding in a van going out to Spokane, so I would have a rocket or two and a few supplies that I would need to bring back with me. Anyone heading back from Spokane to Seattle or to Dayton from SPokane, please email me off list. I am more than willing to cover the entire gas cost for the one way trip back as compensation. Best regards, Steve Thatcher From steve at bestmortgage.com Thu May 28 11:08:06 2009 From: steve at bestmortgage.com (Steve Tytler) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:08:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Any launches at 60 Acres Park in Redmond this summer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <060e01c9dfbf$40da3680$6501a8c0@HDNW1> FITS was my first rocket launch in a few years, and now that I've got the bug again, I'm wondering if there are any launches at 60 Acres park this summer. I used to fly my C-G rockets there a few years ago, but I stopped going when the soccer people took over the place. The soaring club guys sued King County, but unfortunately they lost and the soccer people get full run of the park any time they want. So are there ANY dates open during the summer when the soccer punks aren't there, or do I have to wait until winter? From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Thu May 28 11:28:46 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 18:28:46 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Pirate Central FITS Report Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990FCD52@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> Red, Core and I rolled in around 630pm after an easy drive and a stop for some good BBQ in Cashmire. Setup was a breeze as the sun went down and we said hi to the early arrivals. Too tired to pull out the rockets or tools we hung out for the evening and left prep for the am. The night was much colder than predicted and I got some grumbling from my camping party but thankfully this was the only cold night :). Friday morning brought clear skis but wind. We spent the morning between finishing camp setup, pulling out rockets and helping setup the range. Then the flying started! Friday: 1) We started with an old standby my 3" Wildman and flew it on a small K500 BnD Purple Helmet Propellant motor. Lovely to 5558' and a landing right near the D road. 2) Next up we took it up a notch and flew an 75mm 5grain M BnD PHP motor in Stirling from the away cell. Great up and landing this time near the road to the east. I could get used to drive up recovery. Saturday 3) Time for the nerves to come out, at least for Red. She was up to flying for her Level 2 cert with Rorshack, her 4" Extreme Wildman on a 75mm K510 CTI motor. In the strong morning winds she blasted it up to over 6900' and it landing in the middle of the wheat to the north. All good! 4) Next was my new Competitor 5 which I named "Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time" on a L1300 Redline load. This one got more umph than my sims told me and went a little above 8000' off the track extension. I came back after recovery in the sage to the east asking for forgiveness from the LDs. 5) I ended the day flying Stirling again, this time on a neck snapper the new CTI K2045 54mm motor. A little struggle lighting and then a kick off the pad so fast even Michael Dennis' fancy Nikon D3 only caught 1 frame. 4200' with recovery out west. Sunday After late night celebration around the campsite Sunday was a much slower day. Core was able to put up the Xcaliber and Small Endeavor on a G69 Red and G60 Sparky's respectfully. 6) I put up my last flight for the weekend, the Competitor 5 on a AMW L1060 GG that had been giving me assemble trouble for a year. Once lit by one of Denny's special igniters however the flight was no trouble to 5700' and change just across the south road. Having now touched all parts of the compass, used both my rocket hunter and beeline GPS and having helped various folks put up several projects the flying was done for me. 8 for 8 I'll definitely take for a weekend of flying. The only damage came from someone tripping over my rockets and cracking an airframe of a bird which I still flew the next day! Lastly I did my last stint as LCO on Monday and then helped pack up the range. Great FITS all around!!! Good job all!! Cheers! Brad, Red and Core -------------- next part -------------- Red, Core and I rolled in around 630pm after an easy drive and a stop for some good BBQ in Cashmire.? Setup was a breeze as the sun went down and we said hi to the early arrivals.? Too tired to pull out the rockets or tools we hung out for the evening and left prep for the am. ? The night was much colder than predicted and I got some grumbling from my camping party but thankfully this was the only cold night :).? Friday morning brought clear skis but wind.? We spent the morning between finishing camp setup, pulling out rockets and helping setup the range.? Then the flying started! ? Friday: 1) We started with an old standby my 3" Wildman and flew it on a small K500 BnD Purple Helmet Propellant motor.? Lovely to 5558' and a landing right near the D road. ? 2) Next up we took it up a notch and flew an 75mm 5grain M BnD PHP motor in Stirling from the away cell.? Great up and landing this time near the road to the east.? I could get used to drive up recovery. ? Saturday 3)? Time for the nerves to come out, at least for Red.? She was up to flying for her Level 2 cert with Rorshack, her 4" Extreme Wildman on a 75mm K510 CTI motor.? In the strong morning winds she blasted it up to over 6900' and it landing in the middle of the wheat to the north.?? All good! ? 4) Next was my new Competitor 5 which I named "Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time" on a L1300 Redline load.? This one got more umph than my sims told me and went a little above 8000' off the track extension.? I came back after recovery in the sage to the east asking for forgiveness from the LDs.?? ? 5) I ended the day flying Stirling again, this time on a neck snapper the new CTI K2045 54mm motor.? A little struggle lighting and then a kick off the pad so fast even Michael Dennis' fancy Nikon D3 only caught 1 frame.? 4200' with recovery out west. ? Sunday After late night celebration around the campsite Sunday was a much slower day.? Core was able to put up the Xcaliber and Small Endeavor on a G69 Red and G60 Sparky's respectfully.? ? 6) I put up my last flight for the weekend, the Competitor 5 on a AMW L1060 GG that had been giving me assemble trouble for a year.? Once lit by one of Denny's special igniters however the flight was no trouble to 5700' and change just across the south road. ? Having now touched all parts of the compass, used both my rocket hunter and beeline GPS and having helped various folks put up several projects the flying was done for me.?? 8 for 8 I'll definitely take for a weekend of flying.? The only damage came from someone tripping over my rockets and cracking an airframe of a bird which I still flew the next day!? Lastly I did my last stint as LCO on Monday and then helped pack up the range.? Great FITS all around!!!? Good job all!! ? Cheers! Brad, Red and Core ? From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Thu May 28 13:22:46 2009 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:22:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's APCP Freedom Sale Days at Tammie's Hobbies Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC52F@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Duane asked me to pass this information along. All 29mm and 38mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 20% off MSRP All 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 25% off MSRP No limits, No LEUP needed. Best of all, the pricing is available on both in stock and ordered items. Option for delivery to OROC launches is available. Sale ends June 15, 2009. Tammie's Hobbies 12024 SW Canyon Rd Beaverton,Oregon 97005 Phone # (503)644-4535 10am to 8pm on Weekdays. 10am to 5pm on Saturday. 12pm to 5pm on Sunday. www.tammieshobbies.com -------------- next part -------------- Duane asked me to pass this information along. ? All 29mm and 38mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 20% off MSRP ? All 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 25% off MSRP ? No limits, No LEUP needed. Best of all, the pricing is available on both in stock and ordered items. Option for delivery to OROC launches is available. ? Sale ends June 15, 2009. ? Tammie's Hobbies 12024 SW Canyon Rd Beaverton,Oregon 97005 Phone # (503)644-4535 10am to 8pm on Weekdays. 10am to 5pm on Saturday. 12pm to 5pm on Sunday. http://www.tammieshobbies.com/ www.tammieshobbies.com From tom.walsh at intel.com Thu May 28 14:53:03 2009 From: tom.walsh at intel.com (Walsh, Tom) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:53:03 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <000001c9d82d$ae44eb50$0acec1f0$@com> Message-ID: I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids are hankering for some rocket flying... -Tom -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Yeah!!! I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did not renew it...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: "John Hawkins" ; ; Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Eugene and all, Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along with motor starters.. I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts after I talk with him. WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal for pre-orders at an additional 3%. Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and get a gift rather than Stubbin and getting nothing. BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, and more good stuff. Burn 'em if you got 'em, Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com > To: eas0171 at gmail.com > CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 > > good question > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to > sell > reloads without having a LEUP on file? > > -Eugene > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" > ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is > > not > > an > > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be > > destroying > > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license > > with > > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with > > motors > > removed. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scott T Bowers" > > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received > >>confirmation > >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > >> To: W. Raymond Stoner > >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFECase > >> -It'sOver > >> > >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from > >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > >> > >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > >> > >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE". > >>> > >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >>> lost? > >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait > >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, > >>> the law changed. > >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could > >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during > >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >>> > >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for > >>> it to take effect? What gives? > >>> > >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >>> playing it safe? > >>> > >>> Ray > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Scott, > >>> > >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >>> > >>> Dennis S Winningstad > >>> 503-781-3529 > >>> > >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >>> > >>> > >>> Scott T. Bowers > >>> www.scottsrockets.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > >>> - It'sOver > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> ] On > >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >>> > >>> May 18, 2009 > >>> > >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >>> > >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > >>> possess) > >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >>> While APCP > >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > >>> certification. > >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > >>> purchase. > >>> Ensuring > >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by > >>> outside agencies. > >>> > >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal > >>> District Court. > >>> > >>> Trip Barber > >>> NAR President > >>> > >>> Ken Good > >>> TRA President > >>> > >>> > >>> __._,_.___ > >>> Messages in this topic > >>> >>> 1NGV1Z > >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ > >>> DMTA1N > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > >>> Reply > >>> (via web post) > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE > >>> c2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > >>> Start a new topic > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > >>> bnRwYw > >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Messages >>> MTJkNH > >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > >>> A2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Files >>> JocmZy > >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsD > >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >>> Photos >>> dHBpam > >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 > >>> cgRzbG > >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Members >>> JkaDI4 > >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRz > >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> MARKETPLACE > >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >>> Time!. >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ > >>> *http:/ > >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las > >>> tweek& > >>> SID=GetPaid> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> I make $75/Hour. While I > >>> Sleep!. >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la > >>> stweek > >>> &SID=75sleep> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >>> families, for the world and for each > >>> other >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ > >>> *http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >>> //grou > >>> ps > >>> .yahoo > >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >>> Change settings via the > >>> Web >>> jJxBF9 > >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > >>> GsDc3R > >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > >>> via > >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >>> Digest >>> very > >>> :% > >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >>> Traditional >>> ange > >>> %2 > >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB > >>> HN0aW1 > >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >>> | Unsubscribe > >>> > >>> Recent Activity > >>> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc > >>> ARzdGl > >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Yahoo! News > >>> > >>> Get it all > >>> here >>> 867457 > >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=124269 > >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >>> //news > >>> .yahoo.com/> > >>> > >>> Breaking news to > >>> > >>> entertainment news > >>> > >>> Drive Traffic > >>> > >>> Sponsored > >>> Search >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt > >>> p://us > >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p > >>> hp > >>> > > >>> > >>> can help increase > >>> > >>> your site traffic. > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups > >>> > >>> Mom > >>> Power >>> .86745 > >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=12426 > >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http > >>> ://gro > >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> > >>> Find wholesome recipes > >>> > >>> and more. Go Moms Go! > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >>> __,_._,___ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Thu May 28 15:07:39 2009 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:07:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <000001c9d82d$ae44eb50$0acec1f0$@com> Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC592@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Tom, If your NAR membership lapse is less that 12 months, you HPR certification will be reinstated upon renewal. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Walsh, Tom Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:53 PM To: Eugene Samsonov; Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids are hankering for some rocket flying... -Tom -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Yeah!!! I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did not renew it...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: "John Hawkins" ; ; Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Eugene and all, Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along with motor starters.. I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts after I talk with him. WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal for pre-orders at an additional 3%. Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and get a gift rather than Stubbin and getting nothing. BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, and more good stuff. Burn 'em if you got 'em, Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com > To: eas0171 at gmail.com > CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 > > good question > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to > sell > reloads without having a LEUP on file? > > -Eugene > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" > ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is > > not > > an > > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be > > destroying > > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license > > with > > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with > > motors > > removed. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scott T Bowers" > > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received > >>confirmation > >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > >> To: W. Raymond Stoner > >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFECase > >> -It'sOver > >> > >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from > >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > >> > >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > >> > >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE". > >>> > >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >>> lost? > >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait > >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, > >>> the law changed. > >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could > >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during > >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >>> > >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for > >>> it to take effect? What gives? > >>> > >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >>> playing it safe? > >>> > >>> Ray > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Scott, > >>> > >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >>> > >>> Dennis S Winningstad > >>> 503-781-3529 > >>> > >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >>> > >>> > >>> Scott T. Bowers > >>> www.scottsrockets.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > >>> - It'sOver > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> ] On > >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >>> > >>> May 18, 2009 > >>> > >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >>> > >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > >>> possess) > >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >>> While APCP > >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > >>> certification. > >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > >>> purchase. > >>> Ensuring > >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by > >>> outside agencies. > >>> > >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal > >>> District Court. > >>> > >>> Trip Barber > >>> NAR President > >>> > >>> Ken Good > >>> TRA President > >>> > >>> > >>> __._,_.___ > >>> Messages in this topic > >>> >>> 1NGV1Z > >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ > >>> DMTA1N > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > >>> Reply > >>> (via web post) > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE > >>> c2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > >>> Start a new topic > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > >>> bnRwYw > >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Messages >>> MTJkNH > >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > >>> A2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Files >>> JocmZy > >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsD > >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >>> Photos >>> dHBpam > >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 > >>> cgRzbG > >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Members >>> JkaDI4 > >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRz > >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> MARKETPLACE > >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >>> Time!. >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ > >>> *http:/ > >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las > >>> tweek& > >>> SID=GetPaid> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> I make $75/Hour. While I > >>> Sleep!. >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la > >>> stweek > >>> &SID=75sleep> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >>> families, for the world and for each > >>> other >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ > >>> *http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >>> //grou > >>> ps > >>> .yahoo > >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >>> Change settings via the > >>> Web >>> jJxBF9 > >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > >>> GsDc3R > >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > >>> via > >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >>> Digest >>> very > >>> :% > >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >>> Traditional >>> ange > >>> %2 > >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB > >>> HN0aW1 > >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >>> | Unsubscribe > >>> > >>> Recent Activity > >>> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc > >>> ARzdGl > >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Yahoo! News > >>> > >>> Get it all > >>> here >>> 867457 > >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=124269 > >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >>> //news > >>> .yahoo.com/> > >>> > >>> Breaking news to > >>> > >>> entertainment news > >>> > >>> Drive Traffic > >>> > >>> Sponsored > >>> Search >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt > >>> p://us > >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p > >>> hp > >>> > > >>> > >>> can help increase > >>> > >>> your site traffic. > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups > >>> > >>> Mom > >>> Power >>> .86745 > >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=12426 > >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http > >>> ://gro > >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> > >>> Find wholesome recipes > >>> > >>> and more. Go Moms Go! > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >>> __,_._,___ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From tom.walsh at intel.com Thu May 28 15:12:53 2009 From: tom.walsh at intel.com (Walsh, Tom) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:12:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC592@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <000001c9d82d$ae44eb50$0acec1f0$@com> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC592@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: Cool, I think it's in that window, but I'll have to check. -Tom -----Original Message----- From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com [mailto:john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com] Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:08 PM To: Walsh, Tom; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Tom, If your NAR membership lapse is less that 12 months, you HPR certification will be reinstated upon renewal. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Walsh, Tom Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:53 PM To: Eugene Samsonov; Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids are hankering for some rocket flying... -Tom -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Yeah!!! I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did not renew it...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: "John Hawkins" ; ; Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Eugene and all, Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along with motor starters.. I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts after I talk with him. WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal for pre-orders at an additional 3%. Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and get a gift rather than Stubbin and getting nothing. BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, and more good stuff. Burn 'em if you got 'em, Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com > To: eas0171 at gmail.com > CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 > > good question > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to > sell > reloads without having a LEUP on file? > > -Eugene > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" > ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is > > not > > an > > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be > > destroying > > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license > > with > > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with > > motors > > removed. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scott T Bowers" > > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received > >>confirmation > >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > >> To: W. Raymond Stoner > >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFECase > >> -It'sOver > >> > >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from > >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > >> > >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > >> > >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE". > >>> > >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >>> lost? > >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait > >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, > >>> the law changed. > >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could > >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during > >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >>> > >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for > >>> it to take effect? What gives? > >>> > >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >>> playing it safe? > >>> > >>> Ray > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Scott, > >>> > >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >>> > >>> Dennis S Winningstad > >>> 503-781-3529 > >>> > >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >>> > >>> > >>> Scott T. Bowers > >>> www.scottsrockets.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > >>> - It'sOver > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> ] On > >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >>> > >>> May 18, 2009 > >>> > >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >>> > >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > >>> possess) > >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >>> While APCP > >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > >>> certification. > >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > >>> purchase. > >>> Ensuring > >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by > >>> outside agencies. > >>> > >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal > >>> District Court. > >>> > >>> Trip Barber > >>> NAR President > >>> > >>> Ken Good > >>> TRA President > >>> > >>> > >>> __._,_.___ > >>> Messages in this topic > >>> >>> 1NGV1Z > >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ > >>> DMTA1N > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > >>> Reply > >>> (via web post) > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE > >>> c2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > >>> Start a new topic > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > >>> bnRwYw > >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Messages >>> MTJkNH > >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > >>> A2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Files >>> JocmZy > >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsD > >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >>> Photos >>> dHBpam > >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 > >>> cgRzbG > >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Members >>> JkaDI4 > >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRz > >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> MARKETPLACE > >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part > >>> Time!. >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 > >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ > >>> *http:/ > >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las > >>> tweek& > >>> SID=GetPaid> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> I make $75/Hour. While I > >>> Sleep!. >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= > >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ > >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: > >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la > >>> stweek > >>> &SID=75sleep> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their > >>> families, for the world and for each > >>> other >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 > >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ > >>> *http:// > >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif] >>> //grou > >>> ps > >>> .yahoo > >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc > >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> > >>> Change settings via the > >>> Web >>> jJxBF9 > >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb > >>> GsDc3R > >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings > >>> via > >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily > >>> Digest >>> very > >>> :% > >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to > >>> Traditional >>> ange > >>> %2 > >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB > >>> HN0aW1 > >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use > >>> | Unsubscribe > >>> > >>> Recent Activity > >>> > >>> Visit Your Group > >>> >>> zk3MzU > >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc > >>> ARzdGl > >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Yahoo! News > >>> > >>> Get it all > >>> here >>> 867457 > >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=124269 > >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: > >>> //news > >>> .yahoo.com/> > >>> > >>> Breaking news to > >>> > >>> entertainment news > >>> > >>> Drive Traffic > >>> > >>> Sponsored > >>> Search >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ > >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 > >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt > >>> p://us > >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p > >>> hp > >>> > > >>> > >>> can help increase > >>> > >>> your site traffic. > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups > >>> > >>> Mom > >>> Power >>> .86745 > >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ > >>> J=12426 > >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http > >>> ://gro > >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> > >>> > >>> Find wholesome recipes > >>> > >>> and more. Go Moms Go! > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >>> __,_._,___ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu May 28 16:26:36 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 16:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject) Message-ID: > The switch from 60 acres to Mansfield certainly explains the increase in M > flights! > -Robert I dug a hard copy of the Mathcad worksheet out of my "ratnest" rocketry file, keyed it in and crunched the numbers for FITS this year. It gave a beautiful trimodal fit(the sum of three normal statistical distributions). Low power: motor class average: 2.04 (almost exactly a C) standard deviation: 2.25 size classes Mid-power: motor class average: 5.77 (5 is F, 6 is G, so almost G) standard deviation: 0.74 size classes High power: motor class average: 8.62 (midway between I and J) standard deviation: 1.50 size classes This analysis puts low power at 45.7%, mid at 21.0% and high power at 33.4% of the motors used according to the three theoretical distributions. 95% of the distribution falls within two standard deviations on either side of the average. So this identifies the low power group as 1/4A through G, the range of legal model rocket motors. Absolutely normal. The mid-power group here flew D through J. The high power group flew mostly G through L. The difference(actual minus theory) between the trimodal predictions and actual motor usage for each class was: A-- -0.3 B-- +0.235 C-- +0.719 D-- -1.54 E-- +1.165 F-- -0.32 G-- +0.178 H-- -0.163 I-- -0.703 J-- +1.676 K-- -0.858 L-- -3.114 M-- +6.612 N-- +0.391 So the only significant differences are for L and M motors. Three fewer L's, six more M's were flown than the model predicts. But overall it's an extremely good fit. The excess of M motors represents the 'very high power' flyers. L's have always been a kind of an oddball size motor. I'll leave it up to attendees to decide for themselves whether or not the somewhat arbitrary math identifies actual groups/types of flyers. But this model, whether the data best fits two or three groups, over time just keeps identifying the same groupings: C, G, J. The percentage contribution for each group varies widely from launch to launch, but the groupings themselves are fairly constant. +McG+ From sb at berfield.com Thu May 28 18:07:53 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 01:07:53 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Pics Message-ID: I was hanging out with folks with WAY nicer cameras and better skills this FITS so I didn't take all that many photos, but what I took are at http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/FITS200902?authkey=Gv1sRgCJLi59CD2J-OKQ# Haven't really cleaned them up yet. -sb -------------- next part -------------- I was hanging out with folks with WAY nicer cameras and better skills this FITS so I didn't take all that many photos, but what I took are at http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/FITS200902?authkey=Gv1sRgCJLi59CD2J-OKQ# Haven't really cleaned them up yet. -sb From vern_knowles at att.net Thu May 28 18:41:27 2009 From: vern_knowles at att.net (Vern Knowles) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 19:41:27 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS Message-ID: <00d901c9dffe$95e4b210$0400a8c0@MainPC> The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today about FITS. Here is a link: http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=1510 Vern Knowles www.vernk.com From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu May 28 19:06:54 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 19:06:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS References: <00d901c9dffe$95e4b210$0400a8c0@MainPC> Message-ID: Nice article. I too am like Mike, I'm a BAR. Vern thank you for sharing and say hi to Kate for me. See you two in June at Brothers. Hi Kate. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vern Knowles" To: Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS > > The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today about > FITS. > Here is a link: > > http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=1510 > > > Vern Knowles > www.vernk.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From faderlk at hotmail.com Thu May 28 20:24:55 2009 From: faderlk at hotmail.com (william carpenter) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 20:24:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Solar Warrior Photos Message-ID: Hello all, I'm coming to the newsletter regarding one of my rockets. Did anyone get any photos or videos of a 4x upscaled Estes Solar Warrior? It's a big (well, big for me) yellow and blue rocket with somewhat aircraft-style fins. It flew up on an Aerotech G64 and then core sampled. Does this ring any bells for anyone? I'm asking here because I didn't get any photos or videos of my own. I lost the charger for my video camera, so that was a no go. I didn't get any photos because as I was handing off my camera to someone else so I could watch, I accidentally bumped the on/off switch. I won't be crushed without photos (I'll have the rocket repaired and flying again in October), but it would be nice to have something. Thanks for any answers. Regards, William Carpenter NAR #88972 _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 -------------- next part -------------- Hello all, ? I'm coming to the newsletter regarding one of my rockets. Did anyone get any photos or videos?of a 4x upscaled Estes Solar Warrior? It's a big (well, big for me)?yellow and blue rocket with somewhat aircraft-style fins. It flew up on an Aerotech G64 and then core sampled. Does this ring any bells for anyone? ? I'm asking here because I didn't get any photos or videos?of my own. I lost the charger for my video camera, so that was a no go. I didn't get any photos because as I was handing off my camera to someone else so I could watch, I accidentally bumped the on/off switch. ? I won't be crushed without photos (I'll have the rocket repaired and flying again in October), but it would be nice to have something. ? Thanks for any answers. ? Regards, William Carpenter ? NAR #88972 Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 See how. From dmrandall at gmail.com Thu May 28 20:56:49 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 20:56:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Any launches at 60 Acres Park in Redmond this summer? In-Reply-To: <060e01c9dfbf$40da3680$6501a8c0@HDNW1> References: <060e01c9dfbf$40da3680$6501a8c0@HDNW1> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905282056w3615f530pe91920d87ef42b8e@mail.gmail.com> There are plenty of opportunities to fly at 60 acres. If you want to go up and fly one evening, best thing to do is look at the camera and see if there are any games going on. www.60acres.org Both the north and south fields are available for flying - I recommend the north field, and recommend walking about 1/3 of the way into the field before setting up. We've had a few tree-landings, so better to keep to the middle of the field. dave On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Steve Tytler wrote: > > FITS was my first rocket launch in a few years, > and now that I've got the bug again, I'm wondering > if there are any launches at 60 Acres park this summer. > > I used to fly my C-G rockets there a few years ago, > but I stopped going when the soccer people took over the place. > > The soaring club guys sued King County, but unfortunately they lost > and the soccer people get full run of the park any time > they want. > > So are there ANY dates open during the summer > when the soccer punks aren't there, or do I have to wait > until winter? > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From melamy at earthlink.net Thu May 28 20:57:23 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 20:57:23 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS Message-ID: <4104108.1243569444110.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> very good article, She did get my quotes a bit off regarding materials. I said phenolic and she said it was quantum tubing. I said quantum tubing and she said a more advanced form of PVC... Hmm, good thing I didn't mention that the other name for quantum tubing was sewer pipe... regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: Vern Knowles >Sent: May 28, 2009 6:41 PM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS > > >The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today about FITS. >Here is a link: > >http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=1510 > > >Vern Knowles >www.vernk.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu May 28 21:19:47 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 21:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS In-Reply-To: <4104108.1243569444110.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.ne t> References: <4104108.1243569444110.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: IIRC Quantum tube is basically ABS. +McG+ > very good article, She did get my quotes a bit off regarding materials. I > said phenolic and she said it was quantum tubing. I said quantum tubing > and she said a more advanced form of PVC... > > Hmm, good thing I didn't mention that the other name for quantum tubing > was sewer pipe... > > regards, Steve Thatcher > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Vern Knowles >>Sent: May 28, 2009 6:41 PM >>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >> >> >>The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today about >> FITS. >>Here is a link: >> >>http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=1510 >> >> >>Vern Knowles >>www.vernk.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockets mailing list >>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From sb at berfield.com Thu May 28 22:32:39 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 05:32:39 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors Message-ID: Some interesting end burn Aerotech motors coming out. It look slike the threat of the combined CTI/AMW stuff is driving some innovation. http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2883/30/ -------------- next part -------------- Some interesting end burn Aerotech motors coming out. It look slike the threat of the combined CTI/AMW stuff is driving some innovation. ? http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2883/30/ http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2883/30/ ? ? From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri May 29 07:57:49 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:57:49 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20991044F2@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> yeah the wording really shows that they feel the heat. should be a good couple of years... b -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:33 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors Some interesting end burn Aerotech motors coming out. It look slike the threat of the combined CTI/AMW stuff is driving some innovation. http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2883/30/ From melamy at earthlink.net Fri May 29 08:33:02 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 08:33:02 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS Message-ID: <19660334.1243611182729.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Ursula always called it sewer pipe which is a ABS. ABS is just a Chlornated form of PVC actually, so it is still in the family. best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >Sent: May 28, 2009 9:19 PM >To: melamy at earthlink.net >Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS > >IIRC Quantum tube is basically ABS. >+McG+ > > >> very good article, She did get my quotes a bit off regarding materials. I >> said phenolic and she said it was quantum tubing. I said quantum tubing >> and she said a more advanced form of PVC... >> >> Hmm, good thing I didn't mention that the other name for quantum tubing >> was sewer pipe... >> >> regards, Steve Thatcher >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Vern Knowles >>>Sent: May 28, 2009 6:41 PM >>>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >>> >>> >>>The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today about >>> FITS. >>>Here is a link: >>> >>>http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=1510 >>> >>> >>>Vern Knowles >>>www.vernk.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockets mailing list >>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > From scott at scottsrockets.com Fri May 29 08:45:15 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 08:45:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS In-Reply-To: <19660334.1243611182729.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <19660334.1243611182729.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Works much better for sewers than HPR......(-; Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of melamy at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:33 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS Ursula always called it sewer pipe which is a ABS. ABS is just a Chlornated form of PVC actually, so it is still in the family. best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >Sent: May 28, 2009 9:19 PM >To: melamy at earthlink.net >Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS > >IIRC Quantum tube is basically ABS. >+McG+ > > >> very good article, She did get my quotes a bit off regarding >> materials. I said phenolic and she said it was quantum tubing. I said >> quantum tubing and she said a more advanced form of PVC... >> >> Hmm, good thing I didn't mention that the other name for quantum >> tubing was sewer pipe... >> >> regards, Steve Thatcher >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Vern Knowles >>>Sent: May 28, 2009 6:41 PM >>>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >>> >>> >>>The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today about >>>FITS. >>>Here is a link: >>> >>>http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID >>>=1510 >>> >>> >>>Vern Knowles >>>www.vernk.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockets mailing list >>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Fri May 29 09:18:24 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:18:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090529091741.036c8c98@mail.iinet.com> Cool. Might have to build something for one of those. From dmrandall at gmail.com Fri May 29 11:56:35 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 11:56:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090529091741.036c8c98@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090529091741.036c8c98@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40905291156hff0b75fje5a1ad874069f57b@mail.gmail.com> FWIW, I flew a Warp-9 end-burner at XPRS last year. The propellant burns so fast that a portion of the ignitor remained in the nozzle and over pressurized the case to the point of some distention. It didn't burst or blow by the aft closure, but it definately was over pressurized. Gary Rosenfeld hadn't seen that before, but that was our understanding of the behavior. During assembly, you squeeze the ignitor between the propellant and the aft insulator (just different than standard core burners). That said, I like flying the VMAX / Warp 9 propellants, I'm sure I'll give the new stuff a try! Dave On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > Cool. ?Might have to build something for one of those. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri May 29 12:02:11 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 19:02:11 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40905291156hff0b75fje5a1ad874069f57b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090529091741.036c8c98@mail.iinet.com>, <6bc920e40905291156hff0b75fje5a1ad874069f57b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099114167@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> that does seem to have become your signature Dave. Speed-Randall ________________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Dave Randall [dmrandall at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:56 AM That said, I like flying the VMAX / Warp 9 propellants, I'm sure I'll give the new stuff a try! From jim at jmw29221.com Fri May 29 13:23:47 2009 From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:23:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40905291156hff0b75fje5a1ad874069f57b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090529091741.036c8c98@mail.iinet.com> <6bc920e40905291156hff0b75fje5a1ad874069f57b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <673ac1f01d10457085f26e7b66c768f7@mx1.blastzone.com> I flew a J1999N in my Little Johnny Rotten at FITS; first launch on Saturday. The propellant shut-down snuffed out the smoke grain; no wonder they sell these motors as plugged only. It put 41 Gs on a 10-lb rocket. Regards Jim On Fri, 29 May 2009 11:56:35 -0700, Dave Randall wrote: > FWIW, I flew a Warp-9 end-burner at XPRS last year. The propellant > burns so fast that a portion of the ignitor remained in the nozzle and > over pressurized the case to the point of some distention. It didn't > burst or blow by the aft closure, but it definately was over > pressurized. Gary Rosenfeld hadn't seen that before, but that was our > understanding of the behavior. During assembly, you squeeze the > ignitor between the propellant and the aft insulator (just different > than standard core burners). > > That said, I like flying the VMAX / Warp 9 propellants, I'm sure I'll > give the new stuff a try! > > Dave > > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Paul Bogdanich wrote: >> Cool. ?Might have to build something for one of those. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> From faderlk at hotmail.com Fri May 29 20:57:05 2009 From: faderlk at hotmail.com (william carpenter) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 20:57:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Saturday Photos Message-ID: Hello all, Here are my photos from FITS that I took on Saturday. I'll have the ones from sunday up shortly. The link connects you to the Photos page on my website. Simply click on the link titled "Fire in the Sky 2009 - Day One 5/23/09" to go to the Webshots album. If you want photos of your rocket for use on your site, send me an e-mail through the site's contact page and I'll send you a high quality version without my watermark. Just be sure to give me (William Carpenter) credit for the photo. If you want to be given credit by name for a rocket, if I have any incorrect or missing information, or if you want a photo removed, contact me through my site's contact page and I will be happy to make those changes for you. Here's the link. http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/photos.htm Regards, William Carpenter NAR #88972 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 -------------- next part -------------- Hello all, ? Here are my photos from FITS that I took on Saturday. I'll have the ones from sunday up shortly. ? The link connects you to the Photos page on my website. Simply click on the link titled "Fire in the Sky 2009 - Day One 5/23/09" to go to the Webshots album. ? If you want photos of your rocket for use on your site, send me an e-mail through the site's contact page and I'll send you a high quality version without my watermark. Just be sure to give me (William Carpenter) credit for the photo. ? If you want to be given credit by name for a rocket, if I have any incorrect or missing information, or if you want a photo removed, contact me through my site's contact page and I will be happy to make those changes for you. ? Here's the link. ? http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/photos.htm http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/photos.htm ? Regards, William Carpenter ? NAR #88972 Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 Check it out. From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri May 29 23:40:07 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 23:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS In-Reply-To: References: <19660334.1243611182729.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6828ea47cc63ba12319d95826a8fe839.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> > Works much better for sewers than HPR......(-; > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com Hey! I was just showing off my "Totally Glueless" rocket to some students today. QT was one of the few choices I had for putting together a rocket with nuts and bolts and still be heavy enough to match those short delay H123's I had to use up a few years back. Drilling holes in composites requires too much thinking about the structural consequences. And too much fuzz. I still have some QT left for the next time I want to build a heavy, heat-warpable, Mach-shatterable rocket. Aren't those good things? ;-) +McG+ > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of melamy at earthlink.net > Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:33 AM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS > > Ursula always called it sewer pipe which is a ABS. ABS is just a > Chlornated > form of PVC actually, so it is still in the family. > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > -----Original Message----- >>From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>Sent: May 28, 2009 9:19 PM >>To: melamy at earthlink.net >>Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >> >>IIRC Quantum tube is basically ABS. >>+McG+ >> >> >>> very good article, She did get my quotes a bit off regarding >>> materials. I said phenolic and she said it was quantum tubing. I said >>> quantum tubing and she said a more advanced form of PVC... >>> >>> Hmm, good thing I didn't mention that the other name for quantum >>> tubing was sewer pipe... >>> >>> regards, Steve Thatcher >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>From: Vern Knowles >>>>Sent: May 28, 2009 6:41 PM >>>>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >>>> >>>> >>>>The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today about >>>>FITS. >>>>Here is a link: >>>> >>>>http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID >>>>=1510 >>>> >>>> >>>>Vern Knowles >>>>www.vernk.com >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Rockets mailing list >>>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri May 29 23:53:55 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 23:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS In-Reply-To: <19660334.1243611182729.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.n et> References: <19660334.1243611182729.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <67c4786723e701165f73f69b98325ca4.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Ummm.... ABS stands for "acrylic, butadiene, styrene." It's a blended plastic, the equivalent of an alloy in metals, designed for a better combination of strength, impact resistance, weather resistance, formability, etc. I'm not sure there's *any* chlorine in it. ABS is commonly used in signs, among many other things. PVC stands for "polyvinyl chloride." A surprisingly high percentage of its weight is chlorine. Pure PVC powder is used in some fireworks as a chlorine donor to get color-producing metallic monochlorides. You literally can't put more chlorine in pure PVC. But most PVC products are a blend, too. Almost all plastics today are. Maybe I'm wrong about QT being ABS but that's what I remember from back when it first came on the market. +McG+ > Ursula always called it sewer pipe which is a ABS. ABS is just a > Chlornated form of PVC actually, so it is still in the family. > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > -----Original Message----- >>From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>Sent: May 28, 2009 9:19 PM >>To: melamy at earthlink.net >>Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >> >>IIRC Quantum tube is basically ABS. >>+McG+ >> >> >>> very good article, She did get my quotes a bit off regarding materials. >>> I >>> said phenolic and she said it was quantum tubing. I said quantum tubing >>> and she said a more advanced form of PVC... >>> >>> Hmm, good thing I didn't mention that the other name for quantum tubing >>> was sewer pipe... >>> >>> regards, Steve Thatcher >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>From: Vern Knowles >>>>Sent: May 28, 2009 6:41 PM >>>>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >>>> >>>> >>>>The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today about >>>> FITS. >>>>Here is a link: >>>> >>>>http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=1510 >>>> >>>> >>>>Vern Knowles >>>>www.vernk.com >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Rockets mailing list >>>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat May 30 00:04:29 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 00:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS In-Reply-To: <6828ea47cc63ba12319d95826a8fe839.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <19660334.1243611182729.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <6828ea47cc63ba12319d95826a8fe839.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: Oh, I forgot one actual but far from unique advantage of Quantum Tubing. It's not harmed by water. All rockets should be able to spend a day or two submerged and still be easily cleaned up for re-use. We do live in the Pacific Northwest y'know! +McG+ >> Works much better for sewers than HPR......(-; >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com > > > Hey! I was just showing off my "Totally Glueless" rocket to some students > today. QT was one of the few choices I had for putting together a rocket > with nuts and bolts and still be heavy enough to match those short delay > H123's I had to use up a few years back. > > Drilling holes in composites requires too much thinking about the > structural consequences. And too much fuzz. > > I still have some QT left for the next time I want to build a heavy, > heat-warpable, Mach-shatterable rocket. Aren't those good things? ;-) > +McG+ > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of melamy at earthlink.net >> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:33 AM >> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >> >> Ursula always called it sewer pipe which is a ABS. ABS is just a >> Chlornated >> form of PVC actually, so it is still in the family. >> >> best regards, Steve Thatcher >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>>Sent: May 28, 2009 9:19 PM >>>To: melamy at earthlink.net >>>Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >>> >>>IIRC Quantum tube is basically ABS. >>>+McG+ >>> >>> >>>> very good article, She did get my quotes a bit off regarding >>>> materials. I said phenolic and she said it was quantum tubing. I said >>>> quantum tubing and she said a more advanced form of PVC... >>>> >>>> Hmm, good thing I didn't mention that the other name for quantum >>>> tubing was sewer pipe... >>>> >>>> regards, Steve Thatcher >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Vern Knowles >>>>>Sent: May 28, 2009 6:41 PM >>>>>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today about >>>>>FITS. >>>>>Here is a link: >>>>> >>>>>http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID >>>>>=1510 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Vern Knowles >>>>>www.vernk.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Rockets mailing list >>>>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > > > From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Sat May 30 06:45:17 2009 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 06:45:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20991044F2@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20991044F2@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: I want some!! :) > From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com > To: sb at berfield.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:57:49 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors > > yeah the wording really shows that they feel the heat. should be a good couple of years... > > b > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:33 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors > > Some interesting end burn Aerotech motors coming out. It look slike the threat of the combined CTI/AMW stuff is driving some innovation. > > http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2883/30/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 -------------- next part -------------- I want?some!! :) ? > From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com > To: sb at berfield.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:57:49 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors > > yeah the wording really shows that they feel the heat. should be a good couple of years... > > b > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:33 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors > > Some interesting end burn Aerotech motors coming out. It look slike the threat of the combined CTI/AMW stuff is driving some innovation. > > http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2883/30/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 See how. From rwjcom at comcast.net Sat May 30 09:08:54 2009 From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:08:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues Message-ID: A recent comment caught my eye: "I flew a J1999N in my Little Johnny Rotten at FITS; first launch on Saturday. The propellant shut-down snuffed out the smoke grain; no wonder they sell these motors as plugged only. It put 41 Gs on a 10-lb rocket. Regards Jim" I too had delay grain issues over at FITS. The worst being when, full of post certification bravado and responding to a little rib poking, I put an I 357 into my PML Explorer for one last flight for the weekend. After a couple of flights on H73's and H123's, it just seemed like the thing to do. Anyway, the bird took off with authority and moved briskly toward its projected 4500 apogee. That was the last anyone saw of it for a while - no puff of smoke, nothing at the top. Let's just say the flight should have been more eventful that it was. Before too long a kind soul came on the radio and said he had found a yellow rocket with a red strip near the road. I went off to recover the remains of my bird. Turned out the rocket was close to unharmed, a couple of scrapes to the paint and a little bend to one fin, but otherwise in good shape. It's survival did not prevent an autopsy however. When I pulled the motor apart, there was about half of the delay grain waiting for me unburnt. Nice little crater in the middle where it had burnt for a while. Seemed like it had burnt until the crater got deep enough and wide enough to widen out to the diameter of the cardboard insulator. Then poof!, or actually no poof. The guys that I asked in Mansfield thought it was probably grease contamination. I am having a hard time getting my head around how what could only have been a tiny spot of grease could have inactivated half the delay grain. The grain itself seemed to be made of a rubbery material that did not seem like it would soak up grease very well. Any of the wise heads here care to weigh in with thoughts? Thanks, Bob (BTW: I'll be away from the computer for the weekend and will not be able to jump in an thank anyone for a reply. Doesn't I'm ungrateful, just that I'm out of town) From melamy at earthlink.net Sat May 30 09:11:31 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:11:31 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS Message-ID: <22949656.1243699891368.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I thought it stood for "A Better Sh..." anyway, I probably got terms searched wrong. The chlorinated version is the CPVC pipe with can stand higher temps. The ABS is Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene. I stand corrected, now I need to go use some ABS... best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >Sent: May 29, 2009 11:53 PM >To: melamy at earthlink.net >Cc: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS > >Ummm.... > >ABS stands for "acrylic, butadiene, styrene." It's a blended plastic, the >equivalent of an alloy in metals, designed for a better combination of >strength, impact resistance, weather resistance, formability, etc. I'm >not sure there's *any* chlorine in it. ABS is commonly used in signs, >among many other things. > >PVC stands for "polyvinyl chloride." A surprisingly high percentage of >its weight is chlorine. Pure PVC powder is used in some fireworks as a >chlorine donor to get color-producing metallic monochlorides. You >literally can't put more chlorine in pure PVC. But most PVC products are >a blend, too. Almost all plastics today are. > >Maybe I'm wrong about QT being ABS but that's what I remember from back >when it first came on the market. >+McG+ From melamy at earthlink.net Sat May 30 09:22:22 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:22:22 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues Message-ID: <8675538.1243700542696.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> doubt grease was the reason in this case. It almost sounds like the delay grain only burned when the motor propellant was burning and did not maintain its own ignition once started. Never had a delay grain stop burning, but I am personally getting very tired of motor eject problems. You might try burning the "bad" grain and see how it behaves. It would be interesting to see if if burned properly. My experience with them is that they burn relatively slowing and spit out sparks - at least my medium delay in a J350 did so on a PML Endeavor back in Maryland. In fact, the delay grain ignited which finally ignited the propellant grain. The rocket when up for a few seconds and then the parachute ejected. Lets just say the lower section went ballistic into soft ground never to be found and the nose cone and parachute drifted for quite a distance and landed in swampy forest land. The coiled snake at the edge of it all made me decide to just let it go... best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: Bob Jimerson >Sent: May 30, 2009 9:08 AM >It's survival did not prevent an autopsy however. When I pulled the >motor apart, there was about half of the delay grain waiting for me >unburnt. Nice little crater in the middle where it had burnt for a >while. Seemed like it had burnt until the crater got deep enough and >wide enough to widen out to the diameter of the cardboard insulator. >Then poof!, or actually no poof. From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sat May 30 09:40:58 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:40:58 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS Message-ID: CPVC is yellowish colored and is used in indoor hot and cold water piping. I use 1/2" CPVC caps for my ejection charges. It holds up better, and has a smaller form factor than PVC. Mike F. In a message dated 5/30/2009 9:12:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, melamy at earthlink.net writes: The chlorinated version is the CPVC pipe with can stand higher temps. **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) -------------- next part -------------- CPVC is yellowish colored and is used in indoor hot and cold water piping.? I use 1/2" CPVC caps for my ejection charges.? It holds up better, and has a smaller form factor than PVC. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 5/30/2009 9:12:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, melamy at earthlink.net writes: The chlorinated version is the? CPVC pipe with can stand higher temps. We found the real ' http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/lyrical-landmarks/258/41.19651/-110.832818/2/The-Eagles-Hotel-California?ncid=emlcntnew00000006 Hotel California ' and the ' http://www.whereitsat.com/#/television/totally-tv/165/47.871213/-66.348481/2/Seinfeld-Diner?ncid=emlcntnew00000005 Seinfeld ' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=emlcntnew00000007 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From raystoner99 at comcast.net Sat May 30 09:44:39 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:44:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues In-Reply-To: <8675538.1243700542696.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <8675538.1243700542696.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005701c9e145$f1af4b80$d50de280$@net> I'm going to agree with Steve...the delay pby snuffed out when the motor quit burning...this is not the proper behavior from a design perspective, but physics said it was so this time. Take a picture of the delay grain, contact AeroTech and request warranty on the motor. I had a friend that the same thing happened to him, they covered the motor AND the rocket... Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of melamy at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:22 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues doubt grease was the reason in this case. It almost sounds like the delay grain only burned when the motor propellant was burning and did not maintain its own ignition once started. Never had a delay grain stop burning, but I am personally getting very tired of motor eject problems. You might try burning the "bad" grain and see how it behaves. It would be interesting to see if if burned properly. My experience with them is that they burn relatively slowing and spit out sparks - at least my medium delay in a J350 did so on a PML Endeavor back in Maryland. In fact, the delay grain ignited which finally ignited the propellant grain. The rocket when up for a few seconds and then the parachute ejected. Lets just say the lower section went ballistic into soft ground never to be found and the nose cone and parachute drifted for quite a distance and landed in swampy forest land. The coiled snake at the edge of it all made me decide to just let it go... best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: Bob Jimerson >Sent: May 30, 2009 9:08 AM >It's survival did not prevent an autopsy however. When I pulled the >motor apart, there was about half of the delay grain waiting for me >unburnt. Nice little crater in the middle where it had burnt for a >while. Seemed like it had burnt until the crater got deep enough and >wide enough to widen out to the diameter of the cardboard insulator. >Then poof!, or actually no poof. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Sat May 30 10:38:49 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 10:38:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues In-Reply-To: <005701c9e145$f1af4b80$d50de280$@net> References: <8675538.1243700542696.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <005701c9e145$f1af4b80$d50de280$@net> Message-ID: <005501c9e14d$7e559880$7b00c980$@net> The J350 that burnt the delay before the motor sounds like an igniter that was too far forward. I have had the same problem. If there is room in the nozzle I bend the igniter so the wire touches the delay grain, if not I put a small bend 10 - 20 degrees in the wire just below the pyrogen and then make sure I pull the igniter back about 1/2" after inserting it. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:45 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues I'm going to agree with Steve...the delay pby snuffed out when the motor quit burning...this is not the proper behavior from a design perspective, but physics said it was so this time. Take a picture of the delay grain, contact AeroTech and request warranty on the motor. I had a friend that the same thing happened to him, they covered the motor AND the rocket... Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of melamy at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:22 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues doubt grease was the reason in this case. It almost sounds like the delay grain only burned when the motor propellant was burning and did not maintain its own ignition once started. Never had a delay grain stop burning, but I am personally getting very tired of motor eject problems. You might try burning the "bad" grain and see how it behaves. It would be interesting to see if if burned properly. My experience with them is that they burn relatively slowing and spit out sparks - at least my medium delay in a J350 did so on a PML Endeavor back in Maryland. In fact, the delay grain ignited which finally ignited the propellant grain. The rocket when up for a few seconds and then the parachute ejected. Lets just say the lower section went ballistic into soft ground never to be found and the nose cone and parachute drifted for quite a distance and landed in swampy forest land. The coiled snake at the edge of it all made me decide to just let it go... best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: Bob Jimerson >Sent: May 30, 2009 9:08 AM >It's survival did not prevent an autopsy however. When I pulled the >motor apart, there was about half of the delay grain waiting for me >unburnt. Nice little crater in the middle where it had burnt for a >while. Seemed like it had burnt until the crater got deep enough and >wide enough to widen out to the diameter of the cardboard insulator. >Then poof!, or actually no poof. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From melamy at earthlink.net Sat May 30 10:53:24 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 10:53:24 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues Message-ID: <30986432.1243706004548.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hi Marty, I try and only do the wrong thing once. I always bend the igniter and thought I did that time actually, but the launch didn't behave that way. It smoked and chuffed and THEN finally lit - that was my L2 bird that I had launched several times. Have to rebuild, I can make it better... :) best regards, Steve -----Original Message----- >From: Marty2 >Sent: May 30, 2009 10:38 AM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues > >The J350 that burnt the delay before the motor sounds like an igniter that >was too far forward. I have had the same problem. If there is room in the >nozzle I bend the igniter so the wire touches the delay grain, if not I put >a small bend 10 - 20 degrees in the wire just below the pyrogen and then >make sure I pull the igniter back about 1/2" after inserting it. > >Marty From keithp at keithp.com Sat May 30 10:58:16 2009 From: keithp at keithp.com (Keith Packard) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 10:58:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC May 10 model launch report Message-ID: <1243706296.4732.30.camel@aiko.keithp.com> Our first 'summer' model launch was well attended this month, even though it was scheduled on top of Mother's Day. Thanks again to Tim Ryerse for coming out to help set up and run the launch. All of the equipment worked great, although we missed having Robert's PA system. The usual statistics: Launches: 58 Successful flights: 55 Flyers: 12 Rockets: 37 Most Flights: 7 Tim Ryerse & Stephen Tarr Biggest Motor: F39 Dale Coleman The big highlight of the day was when Joe and Stephen lined up 5 saucers for a drag race near the end of the day. Setting off five spinning and spitting 'rockets' was quite the spectacle. With the coming of warmer weather, we had to share the park with a number of soccer games and other activities. We ended up closing the range a couple of times to herd small children back to safety. Calmer winds and a better launch location resulted in far fewer lost rockets this month; the only victim was Stephen Tarr's glider which ended up in the grove of trees in the middle of the field. I've got a complete flight log here for those interested in precisely what was flown. Thanks to everyone who attended, and I hope to see you all at future rocket launches. Future Memorial park model lauch schedule: Sunday July 5th 2-5 Sunday August 9th 2-5 Sunday October 11th 2-5 Saturday November 14 12-3 I failed to reserve space in June early enough, so there won't be a launch next month. In September, please come out to the Oregon Rocketry launch down in Sheridan on the 12th and 13th. -- keith.packard at intel.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/rockets/attachments/20090530/b335d9da/attachment-0001.pgp From jhadv at pacifier.com Sat May 30 11:21:43 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 11:21:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Dealy Grain Issues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090530111801.03982ff8@mail.iinet.com> >Before too long a kind soul came on the radio and said he had found a >yellow rocket with a red strip near the road. I went off to recover >the remains of my bird. Turned out the rocket was close to unharmed, >a couple of scrapes to the paint and a little bend to one fin, but >otherwise in good shape. You are a lucky man. Even though you didn't see it, the report strongly suggests that the rocket flat spun down minimizing the damage. I am glad you had this good fortune so as to still have your certification rocket. A lot of times they point nose down and accelerate. From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Sat May 30 12:04:22 2009 From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 15:04:22 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] New Aerotech motors Message-ID: The thing that irritates me is that it took heavy competition from CTI to do this. On another thought, I have emailed them plenty and finally they come out with 75mm Blue Thunder. (There is a Youtube link on one of the Rocketry Planets Forums to a 3G L.) Well too late as I going to Loki for my L3 cert motor. You snooze you lose AT! Lou ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322950x1201367186/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62& bcd=MaystepsfooterNO62) -------------- next part -------------- The thing that irritates me is that it took heavy competition from CTI to do this.? On another thought, I have emailed them plenty and finally they come out with 75mm Blue Thunder.? (There is a Youtube link on one of the Rocketry Planets Forums to a 3G L.)? Well too late as I going to Loki for my L3 cert motor.? You snooze you lose AT! Lou ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322950x1201367186/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=MaystepsfooterNO62) From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat May 30 12:09:36 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:09:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Dealy Grain Issues References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090530111801.03982ff8@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <3891AB664D7347D6898AD03BFE91A0EB@LaptopKrausert> I've always worried that the ignitor only gets the delay grain lit, and as the laundry comes out the motor starts. Messy, messy, messy. The other worry is having the plastic CD deflector fusing to the motor, taking the rocket into several sporatic spins and then finally chasing after the host of the launch event. Last year I saw a large number of delay grain issues and forward failures. Not sure if Aerotech got a bad batch or something. Just saying I feel I observed more last year than previous years. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bogdanich" To: Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Dealy Grain Issues > >>Before too long a kind soul came on the radio and said he had found a >>yellow rocket with a red strip near the road. I went off to recover >>the remains of my bird. Turned out the rocket was close to unharmed, >>a couple of scrapes to the paint and a little bend to one fin, but >>otherwise in good shape. > > > You are a lucky man. Even though you didn't see it, the report strongly > suggests that the rocket flat spun down minimizing the damage. I am glad > you had this good fortune so as to still have your certification rocket. > A > lot of times they point nose down and accelerate. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From scott at scottsrockets.com Sat May 30 12:30:28 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:30:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS In-Reply-To: References: <19660334.1243611182729.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net><6828ea47cc63ba12319d95826a8fe839.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <462A2BC7209E423CAF186426B20153D7@Mobile2> The other advantage is when you retire the rocket you can use it to repair the crapper....(-; Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 12:04 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS Oh, I forgot one actual but far from unique advantage of Quantum Tubing. It's not harmed by water. All rockets should be able to spend a day or two submerged and still be easily cleaned up for re-use. We do live in the Pacific Northwest y'know! +McG+ >> Works much better for sewers than HPR......(-; >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com > > > Hey! I was just showing off my "Totally Glueless" rocket to some > students today. QT was one of the few choices I had for putting > together a rocket with nuts and bolts and still be heavy enough to > match those short delay H123's I had to use up a few years back. > > Drilling holes in composites requires too much thinking about the > structural consequences. And too much fuzz. > > I still have some QT left for the next time I want to build a heavy, > heat-warpable, Mach-shatterable rocket. Aren't those good things? > ;-) > +McG+ > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of melamy at earthlink.net >> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:33 AM >> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >> >> Ursula always called it sewer pipe which is a ABS. ABS is just a >> Chlornated form of PVC actually, so it is still in the family. >> >> best regards, Steve Thatcher >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>>Sent: May 28, 2009 9:19 PM >>>To: melamy at earthlink.net >>>Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >>> >>>IIRC Quantum tube is basically ABS. >>>+McG+ >>> >>> >>>> very good article, She did get my quotes a bit off regarding >>>> materials. I said phenolic and she said it was quantum tubing. I >>>> said quantum tubing and she said a more advanced form of PVC... >>>> >>>> Hmm, good thing I didn't mention that the other name for quantum >>>> tubing was sewer pipe... >>>> >>>> regards, Steve Thatcher >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Vern Knowles >>>>>Sent: May 28, 2009 6:41 PM >>>>>To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The Quad City Herald in Brewster published a nice article today >>>>>about FITS. >>>>>Here is a link: >>>>> >>>>>http://www.qcherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&Article >>>>>ID >>>>>=1510 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Vern Knowles >>>>>www.vernk.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Rockets mailing list >>>>>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From scott at scottsrockets.com Sat May 30 12:35:10 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:35:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Dealy Grain Issues In-Reply-To: <3891AB664D7347D6898AD03BFE91A0EB@LaptopKrausert> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090530111801.03982ff8@mail.iinet.com> <3891AB664D7347D6898AD03BFE91A0EB@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: I have seen problems with the surface of Aerotech grains and delays getting oxidized in storage. They become nearly impossible to light. A little pass with 80 grit sandpaper would be a wise procedure. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 12:10 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Dealy Grain Issues I've always worried that the ignitor only gets the delay grain lit, and as the laundry comes out the motor starts. Messy, messy, messy. The other worry is having the plastic CD deflector fusing to the motor, taking the rocket into several sporatic spins and then finally chasing after the host of the launch event. Last year I saw a large number of delay grain issues and forward failures. Not sure if Aerotech got a bad batch or something. Just saying I feel I observed more last year than previous years. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bogdanich" To: Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Dealy Grain Issues > >>Before too long a kind soul came on the radio and said he had found a >>yellow rocket with a red strip near the road. I went off to recover >>the remains of my bird. Turned out the rocket was close to unharmed, >>a couple of scrapes to the paint and a little bend to one fin, but >>otherwise in good shape. > > > You are a lucky man. Even though you didn't see it, the report strongly > suggests that the rocket flat spun down minimizing the damage. I am glad > you had this good fortune so as to still have your certification rocket. > A > lot of times they point nose down and accelerate. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From george at rachors.com Sat May 30 15:51:52 2009 From: george at rachors.com (George L. Rachor Jr.) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 15:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC May 10 model launch report In-Reply-To: <1243706296.4732.30.camel@aiko.keithp.com> References: <1243706296.4732.30.camel@aiko.keithp.com> Message-ID: <20090530155056.Y21258@racsys.rachors.com> If I could get a flyer with the Wilsonville launch dates Hillsboro Hobby would love to have them. George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Sat, 30 May 2009, Keith Packard wrote: > Our first 'summer' model launch was well attended this month, even > though it was scheduled on top of Mother's Day. > > Thanks again to Tim Ryerse for coming out to help set up and run the > launch. All of the equipment worked great, although we missed having > Robert's PA system. > > The usual statistics: > > Launches: 58 > Successful flights: 55 > Flyers: 12 > Rockets: 37 > Most Flights: 7 Tim Ryerse & Stephen Tarr > Biggest Motor: F39 Dale Coleman > > The big highlight of the day was when Joe and Stephen lined up 5 saucers > for a drag race near the end of the day. Setting off five spinning and > spitting 'rockets' was quite the spectacle. > > With the coming of warmer weather, we had to share the park with a > number of soccer games and other activities. We ended up closing the > range a couple of times to herd small children back to safety. > > Calmer winds and a better launch location resulted in far fewer lost > rockets this month; the only victim was Stephen Tarr's glider which > ended up in the grove of trees in the middle of the field. > > I've got a complete flight log here for those interested in precisely > what was flown. Thanks to everyone who attended, and I hope to see you > all at future rocket launches. > > Future Memorial park model lauch schedule: > > Sunday July 5th 2-5 > Sunday August 9th 2-5 > Sunday October 11th 2-5 > Saturday November 14 12-3 > > I failed to reserve space in June early enough, so there won't be a > launch next month. In September, please come out to the Oregon Rocketry > launch down in Sheridan on the 12th and 13th. > > -- > keith.packard at intel.com > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat May 30 16:26:25 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 16:26:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC May 10 model launch report References: <1243706296.4732.30.camel@aiko.keithp.com> Message-ID: Great launch report. Truly appreciate the effort and the outreach to grow the hobby. From the report, this seemed to be a big huge success. While OROC is know for high power to low power. But having only events that might be too far away to "check out" the hobby. Do not get me wrong. Many curious will make the 200 mile journey, or wait for the Sheridan launch. Now having a place more local and a chance to get experience can only give this great club a bigger chance for people making the long trip for MORE... These local launches have filled some big gaps. Forest Grove started out as a second site. I'm not giving up. In the Fall, I'm going to try again to find a location. Approval complete, now I just need to get commits on a site. Willamette valley hobby shops are jazzed to finally have a place only the distance of Wilsonville to send customers for rocketry. Well done. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Packard" To: "RocketsNW List" ; "rockets" ; "members" Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC May 10 model launch report > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dosmithii at msn.com Sat May 30 16:34:41 2009 From: dosmithii at msn.com (Darrell Smith) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 16:34:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues In-Reply-To: <8675538.1243700542696.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net><005701c9e145$f1af4b80$d50de280$@net> <005501c9e14d$7e559880$7b00c980$@net> References: <8675538.1243700542696.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net><005701c9e145$f1af4b80$d50de280$@net> <005501c9e14d$7e559880$7b00c980$@net> Message-ID: I also had two instances of delay issues at FITS this year. A very early deployment on my PML Explorer on an H123 and on my Binder Design Sentinel on a K550 using a dual deployment setup with motor backup. I agree, it seems that this sort of problem occurs when the igniter lights the delay grain, but the motor takes a little more time to come up to pressure. I will be trying the "igniter fold over" technique, and/or eliminating the motor backup charge to remedy the problem. Thanks for the explanation and corrective measure suggestions. Darrell Smith dosmithii at msn.com NAR #81776 L2 SR, Section #615 Blue Mountain Rocketeers (http://bmr615.org) National Association of Rocketry (http://www.nar.org) -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Marty2 To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues The J350 that burnt the delay before the motor sounds like an igniter that was too far forward. I have had the same problem. If there is room in the nozzle I bend the igniter so the wire touches the delay grain, if not I put a small bend 10 - 20 degrees in the wire just below the pyrogen and then make sure I pull the igniter back about 1/2" after inserting it. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:45 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues I'm going to agree with Steve...the delay pby snuffed out when the motor quit burning...this is not the proper behavior from a design perspective, but physics said it was so this time. Take a picture of the delay grain, contact AeroTech and request warranty on the motor. I had a friend that the same thing happened to him, they covered the motor AND the rocket... Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of melamy at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:22 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues doubt grease was the reason in this case. It almost sounds like the delay grain only burned when the motor propellant was burning and did not maintain its own ignition once started. Never had a delay grain stop burning, but I am personally getting very tired of motor eject problems. You might try burning the "bad" grain and see how it behaves. It would be interesting to see if if burned properly. My experience with them is that they burn relatively slowing and spit out sparks - at least my medium delay in a J350 did so on a PML Endeavor back in Maryland. In fact, the delay grain ignited which finally ignited the propellant grain. The rocket when up for a few seconds and then the parachute ejected. Lets just say the lower section went ballistic into soft ground never to be found and the nose cone and parachute drifted for quite a distance and landed in swampy forest land. The coiled snake at the edge of it all made me decide to just let it go... best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: Bob Jimerson > >Sent: May 30, 2009 9:08 AM >It's survival did not prevent an autopsy however. When I pulled the >motor apart, there was about half of the delay grain waiting for me >unburnt. Nice little crater in the middle where it had burnt for a >while. Seemed like it had burnt until the crater got deep enough and >wide enough to widen out to the diameter of the cardboard insulator. >Then poof!, or actually no poof. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- I also had two instances of delay issues at FITS this year.? A very early deployment on my PML Explorer on an H123 and on my Binder Design Sentinel on a K550 using?a dual deployment setup with motor backup.? I agree,?it seems that this sort of problem occurs when the igniter lights the delay grain, but the motor takes a little more time to come up to pressure.? I will be trying the "igniter fold over" technique, and/or eliminating the motor backup charge to remedy the problem. ? Thanks for the explanation and corrective measure suggestions. ? ? Darrell Smith? mailto:dosmithii at msn.com dosmithii at msn.com ? NAR #81776 L2 SR, Section #615 Blue Mountain Rocketeers? ( http://bmr615.org http://bmr615.org ) National Association of Rocketry ( http://www.nar.org http://www.nar.org ) ? -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ? -- Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net Marty2 To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues The J350 that burnt the delay before the motor sounds like an igniter that was too far forward.? I have had the same problem.? If there is room in the nozzle I bend the igniter so the wire touches the delay grain, if not I put a small bend 10 - 20 degrees in the wire just below the pyrogen and then make sure I pull the igniter back about 1/2" after inserting it. Marty -----Original Message----- From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:45 AM To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues I'm going to agree with Steve...the delay pby snuffed out when the motor quit burning...this is not the proper behavior from a design perspective, but physics said it was so this time.? Take a picture of the delay grain, contact AeroTech and request warranty on the motor.? I had a friend that the same thing happened to him, they covered the motor AND the rocket... Ray -----Original Message----- From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of mailto:melamy at earthlink.net melamy at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:22 AM To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay grain issues doubt grease was the reason in this case. It almost sounds like the delay grain only burned when the motor propellant was burning and did not maintain its own ignition once started. Never had a delay grain stop burning, but I am personally getting very tired of motor eject problems. You might try burning the "bad" grain and see how it behaves. It would be interesting to see if if burned properly. My experience with them is that they burn relatively slowing and spit out sparks - at least my medium delay in a J350 did so on a PML Endeavor back in Maryland. In fact, the delay grain ignited which finally ignited the propellant grain. The rocket when up for a few seconds and then the parachute ejected. Lets just say the lower section went ballistic into soft ground never to be found and the nose cone and parachute drifted for quite a distance and landed in swampy forest land. The coiled snake at the edge of it all made me decide to just let it go... best regards, Steve Thatcher ? -----Original Message----- >From: Bob Jimerson < mailto:rwjcom at comcast.net rwjcom at comcast.net > >Sent: May 30, 2009 9:08 AM >It's survival did not prevent an autopsy however.? When I pulled the? >motor apart, there was about half of the delay grain waiting for me? >unburnt.? Nice little crater in the middle where it had burnt for a? >while.? Seemed like it had burnt until the crater got deep enough and? >wide enough to widen out to the diameter of the cardboard insulator.? >Then poof!, or actually no poof. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From tnetcenter at gmail.com Sat May 30 22:30:54 2009 From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 22:30:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG WAC2 video by Rod (5/16/09 Launch at Brothers) Message-ID: Here's some footage from Rod Moorehead's video of the 5/16/09 WAC2 launch at Brothers. The actual video is longer so I've edited it down some and added some titles and stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqZ67PK0e8 Enjoy, Jeff Moore BORG - Bend Oregon Rocketry Group __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- ? Here's some footage from Rod Moorehead's video of the 5/16/09 WAC2 launch at Brothers. The actual video is longer so I've edited it down some and added some titles and stuff. ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqZ67PK0e8 http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=ioqZ67PK0e8 Enjoy, Jeff Moore BORG - Bend Oregon Rocketry Group http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=18037564/grpspId=1705063557/msgId=1545/stime=1243730030/nc1=3848621/nc2=4025373/nc3=5522133 __,_._,___ From greg at bigredbee.com Sat May 30 22:49:16 2009 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 22:49:16 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] BORG WAC2 video by Rod (5/16/09 Launch at Brothers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very nice, most excellent flight, and great video! But...would've made a much better story if you didn't drive right to the landing site ;) ya know -- kinda like "we searched for hours and hours and then finally found it"...... Greg On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Jeff Moore wrote: > > > Here's some footage from Rod Moorehead's video of the 5/16/09 WAC2 launch at > Brothers. > > The actual video is longer so I've edited it down some and added some titles > and stuff. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqZ67PK0e8 > > Enjoy, > Jeff Moore > BORG - Bend Oregon Rocketry Group > __,_._,___ > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat May 30 22:51:43 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 22:51:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] BORG WAC2 video by Rod (5/16/09 Launch at Brothers) References: Message-ID: <45A310D0CD234C15A367F58D4D5EAAED@LaptopKrausert> Fantastic video. As stated before, well done BORG. You're two stage performance was a great addition to the day of the high flyers. Cheers, Robert BTW Jeff, can you help next week with the remaining Wilsonville launch schedules? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Moore To: OROC Members ; NW Rocketry List Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:30 PM Subject: [OROC Members] BORG WAC2 video by Rod (5/16/09 Launch at Brothers) Here's some footage from Rod Moorehead's video of the 5/16/09 WAC2 launch at Brothers. The actual video is longer so I've edited it down some and added some titles and stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqZ67PK0e8 Enjoy, Jeff Moore BORG - Bend Oregon Rocketry Group __,_._,___ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Members mailing list Members at oregonrocketry.org http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members -------------- next part -------------- Fantastic video. As stated before, well done?BORG. You're two stage performance was a great addition to the day of the high flyers. ? Cheers, Robert ? BTW Jeff, can you help next week with the remaining Wilsonville launch schedules? ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:tnetcenter at gmail.com Jeff Moore To: mailto:members at oregonrocketry.com OROC Members ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com NW Rocketry List Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:30 PM Subject: [OROC Members] BORG WAC2 video by Rod (5/16/09 Launch at Brothers) ? Here's some footage from Rod Moorehead's video of the 5/16/09 WAC2 launch at Brothers. The actual video is longer so I've edited it down some and added some titles and stuff. ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqZ67PK0e8 http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=ioqZ67PK0e8 Enjoy, Jeff Moore BORG - Bend Oregon Rocketry Group http://www.mailscanner.tv/1x1spacer.gif __,_._,___ _______________________________________________ Members mailing list mailto:Members at oregonrocketry.org Members at oregonrocketry.org http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members From tnetcenter at gmail.com Sat May 30 23:29:50 2009 From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 23:29:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] BORG WAC2 video by Rod (5/16/09 Launch at Brothers) References: Message-ID: Hey, We're just making up for the 1st 2-stage launch where we recovered the sustainer 2.5 miles downrange and we walked all of that! :-) We're very happy with the launch and are looking forward to flying it higher! :-) Jeff Moore BORG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Clark" Very nice, most excellent flight, and great video! But...would've made a much better story if you didn't drive right to the landing site ;) ya know -- kinda like "we searched for hours and hours and then finally found it"...... Greg > From jjarmitage at earthlink.net Sun May 31 00:14:55 2009 From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 00:14:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Belated FITS Report... Message-ID: Many thanks to all of the volunteers, vendors, videographers and photographers pro and amateur alike who make this event possible. Thanks to Kent, Mike, Carl and Brad for the organization and arrangements. And a very special note of appreciation and gratitude to those who encouraged and supported Allyne in achieving her L2. Bill and Dave of PSP who first put her up to this after her L1 at FITS 08. Then continued with their encouragement by helping us buy a kit and motor for the event. It was fun watching my girly girl don gloves and glasses and arm herself with syringes of epoxy and sheets of sand paper. She insisted on a special paint job. After a brief web search, she found a young man in Federal Way who happily airbrushed his signature flames, he just smiled and said he never saw anything like it. Andrew for imparting his knowledge and experience of hybrids in the hope of assisting a new generation and greater use of the technology. Mark for offering use of his 54-852 case for her J315R. Kent and Carl for their kind attention, assistance and co-advising. This trip fulfilled a series of firsts and a last. The most surprising, Mom actually decided that this was not some passing fancy. This being our 5th FITS, having 2-L2's and a LEUP holder in the family, an explosives magazine in the shed and watching the size and complexity grow, she decided: 'if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em', and bought a PML Small Endeavor from our long-time astronomy friend, Bob. L1 FITS '10?? This was the first trip I have no major repairs to make! Michael christened a new family flagship, Mako, on a G77R with my first drive-up recovery in the back lot of the High School. He then retired Defiance on its first G, a G54 with a perfect recovery a stones-throw from the rod. Defiance was our first non-Estes bird, his first RocSim design to see thrust, our first scratch-build and our first sojourn into mid power. Six years ago on an Estes D12 at a local High School then on an E9 (still amazed we got that one back). Then we Googled 'rockets', found FITS 05, Defiance found an F24W and we were hooked. Allyne warmed up by challenging her L1 ship, an extended Sumo, on an H180W. Perfect. Then she certified with Riptide. Even her apogee event marker (aka pink drogue) made its way home. (thanks to the gents who found and returned that) Intrepid has flown 7 times and been rebuilt from the fincan up three times. (I figure I can keep the name if the fincan survives). # 8 was a J420R. only issue, the nose/payload Kevlar knot come un-done. (that won't happen again!) All survived and will fly again. (BTW, #7 was on a J500G in April at the Ranch, I got a photo of my first Mach Diamonds!) Prominence, a PML Phobos, is still tickling a mile on the Loki I110 Moonburners, this time 5200'+/-. All the charges of the trip fired but one. All 5 altimeters did what they were supposed to do. My tethered main blossomed on que. We lost nothing. We introduced a friend to a new addiction. Now on to new projects: Standardizing the e-bays Finishing my 8', 4" payloader, Discovery Starting my L3 project, my $225 Extreme Wildman :-) APCP for everyone! John Armitage SLC Tacoma 253-205-7722 txt or voice jjarmitage at earthlink.net notebook and Palm -------------- next part -------------- Many thanks to all of the volunteers, vendors, videographers and photographers pro and amateur alike who make this event possible. Thanks to Kent, Mike, Carl and Brad for the organization and arrangements. ? And a very special note of appreciation and gratitude to those who encouraged and supported Allyne in achieving her L2. Bill and Dave of PSP who first put her up to this after her L1 at FITS 08. Then continued with their encouragement by helping us buy a kit and motor for the event. It was fun watching my girly girl don gloves and glasses and arm herself with syringes of epoxy and sheets of sand paper. She insisted on a special paint job. After a brief web search, she found a young man in Federal Way who happily airbrushed his signature flames, he just smiled and said he never saw anything like it. Andrew for imparting his knowledge and experience of hybrids in the hope of assisting a new generation and greater use of the technology. Mark for offering use of his 54-852 case for her J315R. Kent and Carl for their kind attention, assistance and co-advising. ? This trip fulfilled a series of firsts and a last. ? The most surprising, Mom actually decided that this was not some passing fancy. This being our 5 th FITS, having 2-L2???s and a LEUP holder in the family, an explosives magazine in the shed and watching the size and complexity grow, she decided: ???if ya can???t beat ???em, join ???em???, and bought a PML Small Endeavor from our long-time astronomy friend, Bob. L1 FITS ???10?? ? This was the first trip I have no major repairs to make! ? Michael christened a new family flagship, Mako, on a G77R with my first drive-up recovery in the back lot of the High School. He then retired Defiance on its first G, a G54 with a perfect recovery a stones-throw from the rod. Defiance was our first non-Estes bird, his first RocSim design to see thrust, our first scratch-build and our first sojourn into mid power. Six years ago on an Estes D12 at a local High School then on an E9 (still amazed we got that one back). Then we Googled ???rockets???, found FITS 05, Defiance found an F24W and we were hooked. ? Allyne warmed up by challenging her L1 ship, an extended Sumo, on an H180W. Perfect. Then she certified with Riptide. Even her apogee event marker (aka pink drogue) made its way home. (thanks to the gents who found and returned that) ? Intrepid has flown 7 times and been rebuilt from the fincan up three times. (I figure I can keep the name if the fincan survives). # 8 was a J420R. only issue, the nose/payload Kevlar knot come un-done. (that won???t happen again!) All survived and will fly again. (BTW, #7 was on a J500G in April at the Ranch, I got a photo of my first Mach Diamonds!) ? Prominence , a PML Phobos, is still tickling a mile on the Loki I110 Moonburners, this time 5200???+/-. ? All the charges of the trip fired but one. All 5 altimeters did what they were supposed to do. My tethered main blossomed on que. We lost nothing. We introduced a friend to a new addiction. ? Now on to new projects: Standardizing the e-bays Finishing my 8???, 4??? payloader, Discovery Starting my L3 project, my $225 Extreme Wildman J ? APCP for everyone! ? John Armitage SLC Tacoma 253-205-7722? txt or voice mailto:jjarmitage at earthlink.net jjarmitage at earthlink.net notebook and Palm ? From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun May 31 02:02:50 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 02:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS In-Reply-To: <22949656.1243699891368.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink .net> References: <22949656.1243699891368.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5fa6bf4b70ea7971424abb860dabd2dc.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> I was pretty close on the ABS... And come to think of it, I seem to remember that the PVC monomer has a couple hydrogen atoms left in it so maybe a bit more chlorine can be jammed in there. But hydrogen atoms are small, chlorine atoms are fairly large, sometimes there just isn't room for a bigger atom to be substituted on molecules. I'd have to dig to find out the skinny on CPVC, and right now I'm feeling a bit lazy. But either PVC or CPVC are practically solidified chlorine, like melamine has an outrageously high nitrogen content. The thing about ABS is, it's a thermoplastic. Perfect choice for screaming hot desert sun. ;-) +McG+ > I thought it stood for "A Better Sh..." > > anyway, I probably got terms searched wrong. The chlorinated version is > the CPVC pipe with can stand higher temps. The ABS is > Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene. I stand corrected, now I need to go use > some ABS... > > best regards, Steve Thatcher > > -----Original Message----- >>From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>Sent: May 29, 2009 11:53 PM >>To: melamy at earthlink.net >>Cc: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com >>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS >> >>Ummm.... >> >>ABS stands for "acrylic, butadiene, styrene." It's a blended plastic, >> the >>equivalent of an alloy in metals, designed for a better combination of >>strength, impact resistance, weather resistance, formability, etc. I'm >>not sure there's *any* chlorine in it. ABS is commonly used in signs, >>among many other things. >> >>PVC stands for "polyvinyl chloride." A surprisingly high percentage of >>its weight is chlorine. Pure PVC powder is used in some fireworks as a >>chlorine donor to get color-producing metallic monochlorides. You >>literally can't put more chlorine in pure PVC. But most PVC products are >>a blend, too. Almost all plastics today are. >> >>Maybe I'm wrong about QT being ABS but that's what I remember from back >>when it first came on the market. >>+McG+ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun May 31 02:07:38 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 02:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Newspaper article about FITS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think I have a length of 1/2 inch CPVC pipe up in the trailer. Originally for some rocket project. It does have a slightly yellowish color, not the pure white of untinted PVC. +McG+ > CPVC is yellowish colored and is used in indoor hot and cold water > piping.? I use 1/2" CPVC caps for my ejection charges.? It holds up > better, and has a smaller form factor than PVC. > ? > Mike F. > ? > In a message dated 5/30/2009 9:12:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > melamy at earthlink.net writes: > The chlorinated version is the? CPVC pipe with can stand higher temps. > We found the real ' > http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/lyrical-landmarks/258/41.19651/-110.832818/2/The-Eagles-Hotel-California?ncid=emlcntnew00000006 > Hotel California > ' and the ' > http://www.whereitsat.com/#/television/totally-tv/165/47.871213/-66.348481/2/Seinfeld-Diner?ncid=emlcntnew00000005 > Seinfeld > ' diner. What will you find? > http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=emlcntnew00000007 > Explore > WhereItsAt.com > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Sun May 31 07:27:12 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 07:27:12 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Belated FITS Report... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00af01c9e1fb$e40dcb80$ac296280$@net> And thanks to Denny Smith! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Armitage Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:15 AM To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Belated FITS Report... Many thanks to all of the volunteers, vendors, videographers and photographers pro and amateur alike who make this event possible. Thanks to Kent, Mike, Carl and Brad for the organization and arrangements. And a very special note of appreciation and gratitude to those who encouraged and supported Allyne in achieving her L2. Bill and Dave of PSP who first put her up to this after her L1 at FITS 08. Then continued with their encouragement by helping us buy a kit and motor for the event. It was fun watching my girly girl don gloves and glasses and arm herself with syringes of epoxy and sheets of sand paper. She insisted on a special paint job. After a brief web search, she found a young man in Federal Way who happily airbrushed his signature flames, he just smiled and said he never saw anything like it. Andrew for imparting his knowledge and experience of hybrids in the hope of assisting a new generation and greater use of the technology. Mark for offering use of his 54-852 case for her J315R. Kent and Carl for their kind attention, assistance and co-advising. This trip fulfilled a series of firsts and a last. The most surprising, Mom actually decided that this was not some passing fancy. This being our 5th FITS, having 2-L2's and a LEUP holder in the family, an explosives magazine in the shed and watching the size and complexity grow, she decided: 'if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em', and bought a PML Small Endeavor from our long-time astronomy friend, Bob. L1 FITS '10?? This was the first trip I have no major repairs to make! Michael christened a new family flagship, Mako, on a G77R with my first drive-up recovery in the back lot of the High School. He then retired Defiance on its first G, a G54 with a perfect recovery a stones-throw from the rod. Defiance was our first non-Estes bird, his first RocSim design to see thrust, our first scratch-build and our first sojourn into mid power. Six years ago on an Estes D12 at a local High School then on an E9 (still amazed we got that one back). Then we Googled 'rockets', found FITS 05, Defiance found an F24W and we were hooked. Allyne warmed up by challenging her L1 ship, an extended Sumo, on an H180W. Perfect. Then she certified with Riptide. Even her apogee event marker (aka pink drogue) made its way home. (thanks to the gents who found and returned that) Intrepid has flown 7 times and been rebuilt from the fincan up three times. (I figure I can keep the name if the fincan survives). # 8 was a J420R. only issue, the nose/payload Kevlar knot come un-done. (that won't happen again!) All survived and will fly again. (BTW, #7 was on a J500G in April at the Ranch, I got a photo of my first Mach Diamonds!) Prominence, a PML Phobos, is still tickling a mile on the Loki I110 Moonburners, this time 5200'+/-. All the charges of the trip fired but one. All 5 altimeters did what they were supposed to do. My tethered main blossomed on que. We lost nothing. We introduced a friend to a new addiction. Now on to new projects: Standardizing the e-bays Finishing my 8', 4" payloader, Discovery Starting my L3 project, my $225 Extreme Wildman :-) APCP for everyone! John Armitage SLC Tacoma 253-205-7722 txt or voice jjarmitage at earthlink.net notebook and Palm From faderlk at hotmail.com Sun May 31 08:21:25 2009 From: faderlk at hotmail.com (william carpenter) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 08:21:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Sunday Photos Message-ID: Hello all, The following link is to my photos from Sunday at FITS. The link takes you to the photos page of my website. Once you're there, click the link that says "Fire in the Sky 2009 - Day Two 5/24/09" to go to the page on Webshots. If you would like to be sent copies of photos for personal use, e-mail me and I'll send you a high quality version without my watermark. Just be sure to give me credit if you use it on your website. If you would like to be given credit by name for a rocket, if I have missing or incorrect information, or if you want a photo removed, send me an e-mail and I will be happy to make those changes for you. I'm leaving for a week-long trip on Monday, so don't be surprised if I don't get back to you for a while. Also, if you haven't already, you can view my Saturday photos from the same page on my site. Just click the FITS Day One link. http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/photos.htm Regards, William Carpenter NAR #88972 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 -------------- next part -------------- Hello all, ? The following link is to my photos from Sunday at FITS. The link takes you to the photos page of my website. Once you're there, click the link that says "Fire in the Sky 2009 - Day Two 5/24/09" to go to the page on Webshots. ? If you would like to be sent copies of photos for personal use, e-mail me and I'll send you a high quality version without my watermark. Just be sure to give me credit if you use it on your website. ? If you would like to be given credit by name for a rocket, if I have missing or incorrect information, or if you want?a photo removed, send me an e-mail and I will be happy to make those changes for you. I'm leaving for a week-long trip on Monday, so don't be surprised if I don't get back to you for a while. ? Also, if you haven't already, you can view my Saturday photos from the same page on my site. Just click the FITS Day One link. ? http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/photos.htm http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/photos.htm ? Regards, William Carpenter ? NAR #88972 Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 Check it out. From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Sun May 31 07:32:42 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 07:32:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] June 60 Acres Launch Message-ID: <4A22950A.8020905@earthlink.net> I've had some requests for a launch at 60 Acres Park launch. Ping me if you are interested. It would tentatively scheduled on Summer Solstice day (2245 PM PDT/0545 GMT), Saturday, 20 June 2009 or Sunday, 21 June 2009 starting around 10AM or so. Robert From gbhchrist at verizon.net Sun May 31 11:58:15 2009 From: gbhchrist at verizon.net (George Christ) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 11:58:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] June 60 Acres Launch In-Reply-To: <4A22950A.8020905@earthlink.net> References: <4A22950A.8020905@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2A742B5278FE4EAEB1B15E41D78FBB6D@LittleGoodBox> Sunday the 21st is Fathers Day, which has been a somewhat of an annual tradition for 60 Acres launch events. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hammer" To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:32 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] June 60 Acres Launch > I've had some requests for a launch at 60 Acres Park launch. Ping me if > you are interested. > > It would tentatively scheduled on Summer Solstice day (2245 PM PDT/0545 > GMT), Saturday, 20 June 2009 or Sunday, 21 June 2009 starting around > 10AM or so. > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From fred_bare at yahoo.com Sun May 31 12:06:05 2009 From: fred_bare at yahoo.com (Fred Bare) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 12:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] June 60 Acres Launch Message-ID: <558136.8639.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Robert, Or maybe even a 2 day launch..? HMMMMMMMMMMMM? Close enough so most people would not have to travel to far I believe.? Maybe even a start for an annual solstise event. Greg Wilson ? ? ? --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Hammer wrote: From: Hammer Subject: [RocketsNW] June 60 Acres Launch To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 7:32 AM I've had some requests for a launch at 60 Acres Park launch.? Ping me if you are interested. It would tentatively scheduled on Summer Solstice day (2245 PM PDT/0545 GMT), Saturday, 20 June 2009 or Sunday, 21 June 2009 starting around 10AM or so. Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- Robert, Or maybe even a 2 day launch..? HMMMMMMMMMMMM? Close enough so most people would not have to travel to far I believe.? Maybe even a start for an annual solstise event. Greg Wilson ? ? ? --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Hammer wrote: From: Hammer Subject: [RocketsNW] June 60 Acres Launch To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 7:32 AM I've had some requests for a launch at 60 Acres Park launch.? Ping me if you are interested. It would tentatively scheduled on Summer Solstice day (2245 PM PDT/0545 GMT), Saturday, 20 June 2009 or Sunday, 21 June 2009 starting around 10AM or so. Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun May 31 12:50:52 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 12:50:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] June 60 Acres Launch References: <558136.8639.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A28BDCA26034B66AF35E48F21EF350A@LaptopKrausert> Robert & Greg, Sounds like a fun time. However, I will be at OROC's Summer Skies launch at Brothers. Wiki states Summer Solstise begins at 10:45PM (Pacific time) June 20th. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Bare" To: Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:06 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] June 60 Acres Launch Robert, Or maybe even a 2 day launch.. HMMMMMMMMMMMM Close enough so most people would not have to travel to far I believe. Maybe even a start for an annual solstise event. Greg Wilson --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Hammer wrote: From: Hammer Subject: [RocketsNW] June 60 Acres Launch To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" Date: Sunday, May 31, 2009, 7:32 AM I've had some requests for a launch at 60 Acres Park launch. Ping me if you are interested. It would tentatively scheduled on Summer Solstice day (2245 PM PDT/0545 GMT), Saturday, 20 June 2009 or Sunday, 21 June 2009 starting around 10AM or so. Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From vern_knowles at att.net Sun May 31 17:46:07 2009 From: vern_knowles at att.net (Vern Knowles) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 18:46:07 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] My FITS 2009 Report Message-ID: <006901c9e252$5a126380$0400a8c0@MainPC> I have updated my web site with photos, videos and a report on my flights and adventures at the recent FITS launch. Here's the link: http://www.vernk.com/FITS2009.htm I had a great time at FITS and would like to thank everyone that helped make it happen. Especially Mike Wyvel, Denny Smith, Kent Newman, Carl Hamilton and everyone else that served as an LCO, RSO, pad manager or vendor. It was an exceptional event! And congratulations to everyone that certified at FITS. Well done! Vern Knowles www.vernk.com From dennys at carnitech.net Sun May 31 21:46:02 2009 From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:46:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] My FITS 2009 Report In-Reply-To: <006901c9e252$5a126380$0400a8c0@MainPC> References: <006901c9e252$5a126380$0400a8c0@MainPC> Message-ID: <3807D718-89CF-456B-9BDB-316596CAB5CE@mimectl> Very nice, Vern. Great multimedia on your site. Couple of real nice in-flight pics of the launch site at FITS. Thanks for entertaining us with Kate, and your expertise in everything rocketry! -Denny From: Vern Knowles Sent: Sun 5/31/2009 5:46 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] My FITS 2009 Report I have updated my web site with photos, videos and a report on my flights and adventures at the recent FITS launch. Here's the link: http://www.vernk.com/FITS2009.htm I had a great time at FITS and would like to thank everyone that helped make it happen. Especially Mike Wyvel, Denny Smith, Kent Newman, Carl Hamilton and everyone else that served as an LCO, RSO, pad manager or vendor. It was an exceptional event! And congratulations to everyone that certified at FITS. Well done! Vern Knowles www.vernk.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Very nice, Vern.? Great multimedia on your site.? Couple of real nice in-flight pics of the launch site at FITS.? Thanks for entertaining us with Kate, and your expertise in everything rocketry! ? -Denny From: Vern Knowles Sent: Sun 5/31/2009 5:46 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] My FITS 2009 Report I have updated my web site with photos, videos and a report on my flights and adventures at the recent FITS launch. Here's the link: http://www.vernk.com/FITS2009.htm I had a great time at FITS and would like to thank everyone that helped make it happen. Especially Mike Wyvel, Denny Smith, Kent Newman, Carl Hamilton and everyone else that served as an LCO, RSO, pad manager or vendor. It was an exceptional event! And congratulations to everyone that certified at FITS. Well done! Vern Knowles www.vernk.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets