From jhadv at pacifier.com Mon Jun 1 12:17:32 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:17:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] My FITS 2009 Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090601121641.00bd1d80@mail.iinet.com> Kate sure gives great launch report. Really Cool. From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 1 15:27:52 2009 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:27:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Greg Clark, can you ping me off list Message-ID: <353859.91098.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I have some parts you might need. John Hornsby -------------- next part -------------- I have some parts you might need. ? John Hornsby From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 21:35:03 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:35:03 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Reminder; OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda June 4th 2009 Message-ID: <43FD28D92729454BBBDD6185AC6D5963@LaptopKrausert> The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on June 4th 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's [ Map ] 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : Welcome New Members 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville - May Recap & 2009 Schedule [Packard] 7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Recap [Ryerse] 7:45 : Financial Update [Moscoe] 7:50 : Close on Spring Thunder '09; Successes, Improvements, Stats [Krausert/Goncher] 7:55 : Approval to Restock on T-shirts & Hats Approval to club trailer maintenance before Sheridan [Krausert] 8:00 : President's Choice (Don't miss it) [Krausert/all] If there was ever a meeting to attend, this might be one. I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday June 4th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President -------------- next part -------------- The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on June 4th 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's [ Map ] 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : Welcome New Members 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville -?May Recap & 2009 Schedule [Packard] 7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Recap [Ryerse] 7:45 : Financial Update [Moscoe] 7:50 : Close on Spring Thunder '09; Successes, Improvements, Stats [Krausert/Goncher] 7:55 : Approval to Restock on T-shirts & Hats ?????????? Approval to club trailer maintenance before Sheridan [Krausert] 8:00 : President's Choice (Don't miss it) [Krausert/all] If there was ever?a meeting to attend, this might be one.?I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday June 4th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President From tom.walsh at intel.com Tue Jun 2 07:51:34 2009 From: tom.walsh at intel.com (Walsh, Tom) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 07:51:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver In-Reply-To: References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827D5F89808@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><9A8F5D1712BB4E35A28D99CF3C5E3480@downstair><005101c9d820$284148d0$78c3da70$@net><177CB428-1E54-41BE-ABE0-F50BB694FC7F@mooreread.com><021327A059C74172B0544811BE375F26@Mobile2> <1BB81A5331854151AE40B60CA2E6D1E6@stktksrv> <000001c9d82d$ae44eb50$0acec1f0$@com> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC592@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: Done. Now for some flying! -Tom -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Walsh, Tom Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:13 PM To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Cool, I think it's in that window, but I'll have to check. -Tom -----Original Message----- From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com [mailto:john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com] Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:08 PM To: Walsh, Tom; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Tom, If your NAR membership lapse is less that 12 months, you HPR certification will be reinstated upon renewal. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Walsh, Tom Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:53 PM To: Eugene Samsonov; Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids are hankering for some rocket flying... -Tom -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Yeah!!! I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did not renew it...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Munds" To: "John Hawkins" ; ; Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver Eugene and all, Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along with motor starters.. I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts after I talk with him. WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal for pre-orders at an additional 3%. Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work the launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and get a gift rather than Stubbin and getting nothing. BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. Snell blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, and more good stuff. Burn 'em if you got 'em, Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com > To: eas0171 at gmail.com > CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 > > good question > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase > -It'sOver > > This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to > sell > reloads without having a LEUP on file? > > -Eugene > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" > ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is > > not > > an > > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be > > destroying > > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license > > with > > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP > > > > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. > > > > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with > > motors > > removed. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scott T Bowers" > > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" > > > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement > > onBATFECase -It'sOver > > > > > >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received > >>confirmation > >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. > >> > >> > >> Scott T. Bowers > >> www.scottsrockets.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read > >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM > >> To: W. Raymond Stoner > >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on > >> BATFECase > >> -It'sOver > >> > >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from > >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. > >> > >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: > >> > >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE". > >>> > >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they > >>> lost? > >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the > >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the > >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait > >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, > >>> the law changed. > >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could > >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during > >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. > >>> > >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for > >>> it to take effect? What gives? > >>> > >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just > >>> playing it safe? > >>> > >>> Ray > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM > >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; > >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Scott, > >>> > >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" > >>> > >>> Dennis S Winningstad > >>> 503-781-3529 > >>> > >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM > >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE > >>> Case -It'sOver > >>> > >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? > >>> > >>> > >>> Scott T. Bowers > >>> www.scottsrockets.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >>> ] > >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM > >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case > >>> - It'sOver > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> ] On > >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber > >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM > >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com > >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation > >>> > >>> May 18, 2009 > >>> > >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has > >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, > >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP > >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired > >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment > >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from > >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that > >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by > >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the > >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. > >>> > >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their > >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to > >>> possess) > >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. > >>> While APCP > >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of > >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other > >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. > >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate > >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer > >>> certification. > >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage > >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with > >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who > >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to > >>> purchase. > >>> Ensuring > >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential > >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by > >>> outside agencies. > >>> > >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should > >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves > >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal > >>> District Court. > >>> > >>> Trip Barber > >>> NAR President > >>> > >>> Ken Good > >>> TRA President > >>> > >>> > >>> __._,_.___ > >>> Messages in this topic > >>> >>> 1NGV1Z > >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ > >>> DMTA1N > >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) > >>> Reply > >>> (via web post) > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE > >>> c2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | > >>> Start a new topic > >>> >>> BF9TAz > >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD > >>> bnRwYw > >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> Messages >>> MTJkNH > >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj > >>> A2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Files >>> JocmZy > >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg > >>> RzbGsD > >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | > >>> Photos >>> dHBpam > >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 > >>> cgRzbG > >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | > >>> Members >>> JkaDI4 > >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 > >>> Z0cgRz > >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> > >>> MARKETPLACE > >>> I Get Paid $450/day. 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Go Moms Go! > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >>> __,_._,___ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 15:48:00 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:48:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging Matt MacFarland Message-ID: <76F47A22740047CCA96E998B743DB636@LaptopKrausert> Please contact Jim (rocketjed at bendbroadband.com) and I off list. Jim is trying to arrange trailer pick up for Summer Skies. Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- Please contact Jim ( mailto:rocketjed at bendbroadband.com rocketjed at bendbroadband.com ) and I off list. Jim is trying to arrange trailer pick up for Summer Skies. ? Cheers, Robert From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Tue Jun 2 11:23:20 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:23:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane Message-ID: <4A256E18.1090401@earthlink.net> Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane By MIKE GLENN Copyright 2009 HOUSTON CHRONICLE June 1, 2009, 11:38PM Liberty County Sheriff?s officials are expected to meet with the FAA on Tuesday to discuss what a Continental Express pilot reported as a ?missile or rocket? flying near his airplane. A pilot reported to the Federal Aviation Administration that at about 8:15 p.m. Friday, an object passed within 150 feet beneath the aircraft, sheriff?s officials said. The aircraft was near the southern edge of the county, flying at about 13,000 feet, officials said. ?The pilot, from what we understand, was former military. He was able to get the coordinates down real quick,? said Cpl. Hugh Bishop with the Liberty County Sheriff?s Department. Sheriff?s deputies searched Friday night for signs of evidence where a missile might have been launched or landed. ?We couldn?t find anything,? Bishop said. From winningstad at comcast.net Wed Jun 3 09:22:25 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:22:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane In-Reply-To: <4A256E18.1090401@earthlink.net> References: <4A256E18.1090401@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair> IMHO it is VERY difficult to tell 150' from 1000' or more from the pilot's perspective...how big/small was the object etc etc etc Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Hammer Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:23 AM To: NW Rocketry mailing list Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane By MIKE GLENN Copyright 2009 HOUSTON CHRONICLE June 1, 2009, 11:38PM Liberty County Sheriff's officials are expected to meet with the FAA on Tuesday to discuss what a Continental Express pilot reported as a "missile or rocket" flying near his airplane. A pilot reported to the Federal Aviation Administration that at about 8:15 p.m. Friday, an object passed within 150 feet beneath the aircraft, sheriff's officials said. The aircraft was near the southern edge of the county, flying at about 13,000 feet, officials said. "The pilot, from what we understand, was former military. He was able to get the coordinates down real quick," said Cpl. Hugh Bishop with the Liberty County Sheriff's Department. Sheriff's deputies searched Friday night for signs of evidence where a missile might have been launched or landed. "We couldn't find anything," Bishop said. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at blastzone.com Wed Jun 3 09:30:52 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:30:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane In-Reply-To: <24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair> References: <4A256E18.1090401@earthlink.net> <24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair> Message-ID: <10b301c9e468$a9ec30d0$fdc49270$@com> Well yeah, and how does he see something below the aircraft, let alone tell how close it was. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:22 AM > To: 'Hammer'; 'NW Rocketry mailing list' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near > plane > > IMHO it is VERY difficult to tell 150' from 1000' or more from the pilot's > perspective...how big/small was the object etc etc etc > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Hammer > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:23 AM > To: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane > > Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane > > By MIKE GLENN Copyright 2009 HOUSTON CHRONICLE > June 1, 2009, 11:38PM > > Liberty County Sheriff's officials are expected to meet with the FAA on > Tuesday to discuss what a Continental Express pilot reported as a > "missile or rocket" flying near his airplane. > > A pilot reported to the Federal Aviation Administration that at about > 8:15 p.m. Friday, an object passed within 150 feet beneath the aircraft, > sheriff's officials said. > > The aircraft was near the southern edge of the county, flying at about > 13,000 feet, officials said. > > "The pilot, from what we understand, was former military. He was able to > get the coordinates down real quick," said Cpl. Hugh Bishop with the > Liberty County Sheriff's Department. > > Sheriff's deputies searched Friday night for signs of evidence where a > missile might have been launched or landed. > > "We couldn't find anything," Bishop said. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmrandall at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 09:35:20 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:35:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane In-Reply-To: <24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair> References: <4A256E18.1090401@earthlink.net> <24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair> Message-ID: <6bc920e40906030935n611c170bpc257fff65ccf8550@mail.gmail.com> I'd suspect "getting the coordinates really quick" was simply writing down the GPS coordinates from one of his instruments. At 13,000' - any official launch would have been known by the FAA via waiver filing (at least that's what we'd hope) - so it seems more likely to be a flyer out doing their own thing if in fact it was a model rocket. Another article on the subject seems to indicate that local rocket clubs are already being contacted: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6455016.html dave On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Dennis Winningstad wrote: > IMHO it is VERY difficult to tell 150' from 1000' or more from the pilot's > perspective...how big/small was the object etc etc etc > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Hammer > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:23 AM > To: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane > > Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane > > By MIKE GLENN Copyright 2009 HOUSTON CHRONICLE > June 1, 2009, 11:38PM > > Liberty County Sheriff's officials are expected to meet with the FAA on > Tuesday to discuss what a Continental Express pilot reported as a > "missile or rocket" flying near his airplane. > > A pilot reported to the Federal Aviation Administration that at about > 8:15 p.m. Friday, an object passed within 150 feet beneath the aircraft, > sheriff's officials said. > > The aircraft was near the southern edge of the county, flying at about > 13,000 feet, officials said. > > "The pilot, from what we understand, was former military. He was able to > get the coordinates down real quick," said Cpl. Hugh Bishop with the > Liberty County Sheriff's Department. > > Sheriff's deputies searched Friday night for signs of evidence where a > missile might have been launched or landed. > > "We couldn't find anything," Bishop said. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From jhadv at pacifier.com Wed Jun 3 14:00:27 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:00:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FAA to discuss report of object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090603135915.00bcc8f0@mail.iinet.com> Just the fact that someone launched something or another close enough to be reported by a passing aircraft is not a real good idea. From kent.newman at comcast.net Wed Jun 3 15:35:40 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:35:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - June 13th Message-ID: <003401c9e49b$a08a45d0$e19ed170$@newman@comcast.net> Greetings, all! Please note that the Washington Aerospace monthly meeting will be a GSE cleaning party to be held on June 13th of this month at Dan Work's residence. Details on the time and address will be broadcast early next week. The regularly scheduled meeting typically held on the first Saturday of the month will NOT be held this weekend on the 6th of June. Regards, Kent -------------- next part -------------- Greetings, all! ? Please note that the Washington Aerospace monthly meeting will be a GSE cleaning party to be held on June 13 th of this month at Dan Work???s residence. Details on the time and address will be broadcast early next week. ? The regularly scheduled meeting typically held on the first Saturday of the month will NOT be held this weekend on the 6 th of June. ? Regards, ? Kent ? From bigredbee at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 22:26:59 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:26:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Far101? Message-ID: I plan to launch a G-class motor at scout launch this weekend. Can someone tell me what's required in the way of Far101 notifications? Please don't point me to the Far 101 Regs, I want someone to spoon feed me the information. Like -- a form I can fill out, and a fax number I can drop it on ;) -- Greg (ex-OROC Launch Director, and feeling lazy ) Clark From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Jun 4 00:55:08 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40906030935n611c170bpc257fff65ccf8550@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A256E18.1090401@earthlink.net> <24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair> <6bc920e40906030935n611c170bpc257fff65ccf8550@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87528c6634ec68dd2955447f5b26bec9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> I see something a little more disturbing here. At 13,000 feet any but the most extreme hobby rockets have long since burned out. I find it very doubtful that anyone would do a clandestine launch of such a large rocket with its attendant legal risks given the relative ease with which it could be launched legally. And if it was a large hobby rocket, the trajectory would be primarily vertical which does not seem to agree with the report. However, it is a fact that primitive seeker type guidance systems will typically exhibit a close miss flight behavior against a moving target. Some of the 1960's vintage Russian shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles have demonstrated this in real life attacks elsewhere around the world. It has to do with the rocket heading directly towards the target, not where the target will be at intercept time, and the missile's inability to execute sufficient course correction to achieve a hit during the last few seconds of flight. Such missiles will also tend to try to fly fairly horizontally towards the end when launched from the ground at an aircraft. Dave Proffitt has explained here about how a more sophisticated anti-aircraft missile is guided--they aim for where the target is projected to be and this requires far more sophistication. So these incidents look more to me like actual attacks in which the terrorist scumbags are finding out they got ripped off when they bought an old missile, that these older, more primitive weapons have a very narrow range of parameters in which they will be effective. The original soldiers were trained about this; the terrorists are not. I'll bring an old surplus declassified AIM-9B seeker head to the OROC meeting. I was able to figure out roughly how it worked: it's just the sensor unit but its functioning is really pretty basic. +McG+ > I'd suspect "getting the coordinates really quick" was simply writing > down the GPS coordinates from one of his instruments. > > At 13,000' - any official launch would have been known by the FAA via > waiver filing (at least that's what we'd hope) - so it seems more > likely to be a flyer out doing their own thing if in fact it was a > model rocket. > > Another article on the subject seems to indicate that local rocket > clubs are already being contacted: > http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6455016.html > > dave > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Dennis > Winningstad wrote: >> IMHO it is VERY difficult to tell 150' from 1000' or more from the >> pilot's >> perspective...how big/small was the object etc etc etc >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> 503-781-3529 >> >> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Hammer >> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:23 AM >> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near >> plane >> >> Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane >> >> By MIKE GLENN Copyright 2009 HOUSTON CHRONICLE >> June 1, 2009, 11:38PM >> >> Liberty County Sheriff's officials are expected to meet with the FAA on >> Tuesday to discuss what a Continental Express pilot reported as a >> "missile or rocket" flying near his airplane. >> >> A pilot reported to the Federal Aviation Administration that at about >> 8:15 p.m. Friday, an object passed within 150 feet beneath the aircraft, >> sheriff's officials said. >> >> The aircraft was near the southern edge of the county, flying at about >> 13,000 feet, officials said. >> >> "The pilot, from what we understand, was former military. He was able to >> get the coordinates down real quick," said Cpl. Hugh Bishop with the >> Liberty County Sheriff's Department. >> >> Sheriff's deputies searched Friday night for signs of evidence where a >> missile might have been launched or landed. >> >> "We couldn't find anything," Bishop said. >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 4 05:00:11 2009 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 05:00:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Far101? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greg, I believe under Far 101( now class 1) you don't gotta do nuthin'. Under 4.4 oz of propellent and 3.3# total weight. Landowner permission is a good thing though. :) Mark > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:26:59 -0700 > From: bigredbee at gmail.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Far101? > > I plan to launch a G-class motor at scout launch this weekend. > > Can someone tell me what's required in the way of Far101 notifications? > > Please don't point me to the Far 101 Regs, I want someone to spoon > feed me the information. > > Like -- a form I can fill out, and a fax number I can drop it on ;) > > -- Greg (ex-OROC Launch Director, and feeling lazy ) Clark > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 -------------- next part -------------- Greg, I believe under Far 101( now class 1) you don't gotta do nuthin'.?Under 4.4 oz of propellent and 3.3# total weight. Landowner permission is a good thing though. :) ? ? Mark ? > Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:26:59 -0700 > From: bigredbee at gmail.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Far101? > > I plan to launch a G-class motor at scout launch this weekend. > > Can someone tell me what's required in the way of Far101 notifications? > > Please don't point me to the Far 101 Regs, I want someone to spoon > feed me the information. > > Like -- a form I can fill out, and a fax number I can drop it on ;) > > -- Greg (ex-OROC Launch Director, and feeling lazy ) Clark > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. From bigredbee at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 06:40:45 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 06:40:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Far101? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks everyone, I'm good to go! On 6/3/09, Greg Clark wrote: > I plan to launch a G-class motor at scout launch this weekend. > > Can someone tell me what's required in the way of Far101 notifications? > > Please don't point me to the Far 101 Regs, I want someone to spoon > feed me the information. > > Like -- a form I can fill out, and a fax number I can drop it on ;) > > -- Greg (ex-OROC Launch Director, and feeling lazy ) Clark > From rmoscoe at msn.com Thu Jun 4 07:14:07 2009 From: rmoscoe at msn.com (Gwen Moscoe) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:14:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane In-Reply-To: <87528c6634ec68dd2955447f5b26bec9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <4A256E18.1090401@earthlink.net><24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair><6bc920e40906030935n611c170bpc257fff65ccf8550@mail.gmail.com> <87528c6634ec68dd2955447f5b26bec9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: I still think there is merit to the point already made by an experienced pilot in our midst that it can be very difficult to visually tell the distance between objects in flight when you are not extremely familiar with the characteristics of the other object. The "missile" may well have been a whole lot less than 12,000+ feet and still looked pretty scary when you have a history of looking for threats but have gotten rusty at it... Also, you can't tell me the Homeland Security folks wouldn't be swarming over this like white on rice if they didn't think it sounded a little fishy. -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:55 AM To: "Dave Randall" Cc: "NW Rocketry mailing list" Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane > I see something a little more disturbing here. > > At 13,000 feet any but the most extreme hobby rockets have long since > burned out. I find it very doubtful that anyone would do a clandestine > launch of such a large rocket with its attendant legal risks given the > relative ease with which it could be launched legally. And if it was a > large hobby rocket, the trajectory would be primarily vertical which does > not seem to agree with the report. > > However, it is a fact that primitive seeker type guidance systems will > typically exhibit a close miss flight behavior against a moving target. > Some of the 1960's vintage Russian shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles > have demonstrated this in real life attacks elsewhere around the world. > It has to do with the rocket heading directly towards the target, not > where the target will be at intercept time, and the missile's inability to > execute sufficient course correction to achieve a hit during the last few > seconds of flight. Such missiles will also tend to try to fly fairly > horizontally towards the end when launched from the ground at an aircraft. > Dave Proffitt has explained here about how a more sophisticated > anti-aircraft missile is guided--they aim for where the target is > projected to be and this requires far more sophistication. > > So these incidents look more to me like actual attacks in which the > terrorist scumbags are finding out they got ripped off when they bought an > old missile, that these older, more primitive weapons have a very narrow > range of parameters in which they will be effective. The original > soldiers were trained about this; the terrorists are not. > > I'll bring an old surplus declassified AIM-9B seeker head to the OROC > meeting. I was able to figure out roughly how it worked: it's just the > sensor unit but its functioning is really pretty basic. > +McG+ > > >> I'd suspect "getting the coordinates really quick" was simply writing >> down the GPS coordinates from one of his instruments. >> >> At 13,000' - any official launch would have been known by the FAA via >> waiver filing (at least that's what we'd hope) - so it seems more >> likely to be a flyer out doing their own thing if in fact it was a >> model rocket. >> >> Another article on the subject seems to indicate that local rocket >> clubs are already being contacted: >> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6455016.html >> >> dave >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Dennis >> Winningstad wrote: >>> IMHO it is VERY difficult to tell 150' from 1000' or more from the >>> pilot's >>> perspective...how big/small was the object etc etc etc >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Hammer >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:23 AM >>> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near >>> plane >>> >>> Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane >>> >>> By MIKE GLENN Copyright 2009 HOUSTON CHRONICLE >>> June 1, 2009, 11:38PM >>> >>> Liberty County Sheriff's officials are expected to meet with the FAA on >>> Tuesday to discuss what a Continental Express pilot reported as a >>> "missile or rocket" flying near his airplane. >>> >>> A pilot reported to the Federal Aviation Administration that at about >>> 8:15 p.m. Friday, an object passed within 150 feet beneath the aircraft, >>> sheriff's officials said. >>> >>> The aircraft was near the southern edge of the county, flying at about >>> 13,000 feet, officials said. >>> >>> "The pilot, from what we understand, was former military. He was able to >>> get the coordinates down real quick," said Cpl. Hugh Bishop with the >>> Liberty County Sheriff's Department. >>> >>> Sheriff's deputies searched Friday night for signs of evidence where a >>> missile might have been launched or landed. >>> >>> "We couldn't find anything," Bishop said. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> - Dave >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Thu Jun 4 07:41:12 2009 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 10:41:12 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Far101? Message-ID: Note that the new class I model rocket category specifies "no substantial metal parts", so make sure that the G powered models are not too high tech. Think "spirit of the law". -Robert In a message dated 6/4/2009 6:41:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bigredbee at gmail.com writes: Thanks everyone, I'm good to go! On 6/3/09, Greg Clark wrote: > I plan to launch a G-class motor at scout launch this weekend. > > Can someone tell me what's required in the way of Far101 notifications? > > Please don't point me to the Far 101 Regs, I want someone to spoon > feed me the information. > > Like -- a form I can fill out, and a fax number I can drop it on ;) > > -- Greg (ex-OROC Launch Director, and feeling lazy ) Clark > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) -------------- next part -------------- Note that the new class I model rocket category specifies "no substantial metal parts", so make sure that the G powered models are not too high tech.? Think "spirit of the law". -Robert ? In a message dated 6/4/2009 6:41:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bigredbee at gmail.com writes: Thanks everyone, I'm good to go! On 6/3/09, Greg Clark wrote: > I plan to launch a G-class motor at scout launch this weekend. > >? Can someone tell me what's required in the way of Far101 notifications? > >? Please don't point me to the Far 101 Regs, I want someone to spoon >? feed me the information. > >? Like -- a form I can fill out, and a fax number I can drop it on ;) > >? -- Greg (ex-OROC Launch Director, and feeling lazy ) Clark > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? We found the real ' http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/lyrical-landmarks/258/41.19651/-110.832818/2/The-Eagles-Hotel-California?ncid=emlcntnew00000006 Hotel California ' and the ' http://www.whereitsat.com/#/television/totally-tv/165/47.871213/-66.348481/2/Seinfeld-Diner?ncid=emlcntnew00000005 Seinfeld ' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=emlcntnew00000007 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From jhadv at pacifier.com Thu Jun 4 08:59:49 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:59:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FAA to Discuss In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090604085140.00c2b8a0@mail.iinet.com> At 07:14 AM 6/4/2009 -0700, you wrote: >"And if it was a large hobby rocket, the trajectory would be primarily >vertical which does not seem to agree with the report." I still think it was just some nimrod with a I or a J motor or so where the rocket wind cocked (not under power but still trailing smoke from the delay element which may have caused the illusion that it was under power as military rounds do not have tracking smoke) and spooked some pilot that was trained to look for improbable sources of danger (serving active duty will do that to you. It did it to me). But my main point is that it was too close to the aircraft in the first place. One shouldn't launch with aircraft visible. From billn at peak.org Thu Jun 4 00:48:53 2009 From: billn at peak.org (Bill Nelson) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane In-Reply-To: <24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair> References: <4A256E18.1090401@earthlink.net> <24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair> Message-ID: <1447.208.51.52.4.1244101733.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> > IMHO it is VERY difficult to tell 150' from 1000' or more from the > pilot's perspective...how big/small was the object etc etc etc Worse than that, without knowing the size, it is hard to judge whether something is 100 feet or 100,000 feet away. There aren't many HPR rockets that go anywhere close to that altitude. I can't imagine some rocketeer going to the time/expense of building such a bird and launching it outside a regularly scheduled and waivered launch. Bill From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Jun 5 00:22:46 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 00:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Liberty Co., FAA to discuss report of object near plane In-Reply-To: <1447.208.51.52.4.1244101733.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> References: <4A256E18.1090401@earthlink.net> <24AEE35752FC48709C5986EC2821B739@downstair> <1447.208.51.52.4.1244101733.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> Message-ID: Yup, it's practically impossible for the eye to determine such things at a distance in the absence of nearby reference objects. This is the third time I've heard of this kind of report and I just don't think there's that many hobby rocketeers out there flying rockets of that kind of performance illegally. So this is why these reports need to be investigated. No need to get the jackbooted thugs running around until you find a spent SAM lying somewhere in a cornfield. Then I WANT them running around looking under rocks finding out whodunnit. Often reports of strange things turn out to have mundane explanations. I'm well familiar with the number of times the planet Venus has been reported as a UFO. Yet one night shortly before dawn I saw a light so bright I thought it couldn't possibly be Venus. So I looked at through my spotting scope on x48 and yes, there was the tiny crescent of Venus. Had to see it through a telescope to convince myself it wasn't the mothership arriving, and I *know* better. :) +McG+ >> IMHO it is VERY difficult to tell 150' from 1000' or more from the >> pilot's perspective...how big/small was the object etc etc etc > > Worse than that, without knowing the size, it is hard to judge whether > something is 100 feet or 100,000 feet away. > > There aren't many HPR rockets that go anywhere close to that altitude. > I can't imagine some rocketeer going to the time/expense of building > such a bird and launching it outside a regularly scheduled and > waivered launch. > > Bill > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Fri Jun 5 08:03:42 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 08:03:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry at Maker Faire 2009 Message-ID: <4A2933CE.4070906@earthlink.net> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4FWVtjXS-A http://makerfaire.com/ From greg at blastzone.com Fri Jun 5 08:42:28 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 08:42:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? Message-ID: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes motors? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and the field isn't big enough to support that. I need 40 A8-3's, or could possibly make due with B6-4's. Any leads would be appreciated. Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have them shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're hazmat. At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating them. Thanks From krislhull at comcast.net Fri Jun 5 08:56:15 2009 From: krislhull at comcast.net (Kristopher Hull) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 08:56:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? In-Reply-To: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> References: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> Message-ID: <000001c9e5f6$28857440$79905cc0$@net> Greg, I believe Galaxy Hobby up here in Lynnwood stocks them. I could be wrong, though. Kris -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:42 AM To: 'NW Rocketry mailing list' Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes motors? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and the field isn't big enough to support that. I need 40 A8-3's, or could possibly make due with B6-4's. Any leads would be appreciated. Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have them shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're hazmat. At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating them. Thanks _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Fri Jun 5 09:18:47 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:18:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? In-Reply-To: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> References: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> Message-ID: I have seen bulk packs at the HobbyTown in Redmond. I don't recall what motors were in the packs, but you could give them a call to see what they have. - Carl On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Greg Deputy wrote: > Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes > motors? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as > I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and > the field isn't big enough to support that. I need 40 A8-3's, or could > possibly make due with B6-4's. Any leads would be appreciated. > > Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have > them > shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're > hazmat. At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating > them. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- ?- Carl On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Greg Deputy < mailto:greg at blastzone.com greg at blastzone.com > wrote: Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes motors? ?I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and the field isn't big enough to support that. ?I need 40 A8-3's, or could possibly make due with B6-4's. ?Any leads would be appreciated. Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have them shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're hazmat. ?At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating them. Thanks _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From gbhchrist at verizon.net Fri Jun 5 09:39:21 2009 From: gbhchrist at verizon.net (George Christ) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:39:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? In-Reply-To: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> References: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> Message-ID: <3F80D6E997F94EF691965E6DFE95712F@LittleGoodBox> Hobbytown USA on Cleveland in Redmond Galaxy Hobby on Hwy 99 in Lynnwood Occasionally, I've even seen them at Michaels Crafts (various locations) If these are too far out of your way, I could scoop two boxes up for you early next week and meet you halfway somewhere. Email me off-list if we need to pursue this. I have a stock of my own (from internet vendor A2Z Hobby) that I'd offer, but I need them for a Scout group that is coming to the Fathers Day launch at 60 Acres. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Deputy" To: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? > Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of > estes > motors? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as > I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and > the field isn't big enough to support that. I need 40 A8-3's, or could > possibly make due with B6-4's. Any leads would be appreciated. > > Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have > them > shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're > hazmat. At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating > them. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From carl20320 at msn.com Fri Jun 5 09:52:53 2009 From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:52:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? In-Reply-To: <3F80D6E997F94EF691965E6DFE95712F@LittleGoodBox> References: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> <3F80D6E997F94EF691965E6DFE95712F@LittleGoodBox> Message-ID: Another option is Walmart. Our Walmart often has A8-3, B6-4, C6-3, and C6-5 motors available ... and pretty cheap. They don't always have them though. Might have to call several until you find one that does. > From: gbhchrist at verizon.net > To: greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:39:21 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? > > Hobbytown USA on Cleveland in Redmond > > Galaxy Hobby on Hwy 99 in Lynnwood > > Occasionally, I've even seen them at Michaels Crafts (various locations) > > If these are too far out of your way, I could scoop two boxes up for you > early next week and meet you halfway somewhere. Email me off-list if we need > to pursue this. > > I have a stock of my own (from internet vendor A2Z Hobby) that I'd offer, > but I need them for a Scout group that is coming to the Fathers Day launch > at 60 Acres. > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Deputy" > To: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:42 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? > > > > Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of > > estes > > motors? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as > > I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and > > the field isn't big enough to support that. I need 40 A8-3's, or could > > possibly make due with B6-4's. Any leads would be appreciated. > > > > Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have > > them > > shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're > > hazmat. At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating > > them. > > > > Thanks > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- Another option is Walmart.? Our?Walmart often has A8-3, B6-4, C6-3, and C6-5 motors available ... and pretty cheap.? They don't always have them though.? Might have to call several until you find one that does. ? > From: gbhchrist at verizon.net > To: greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:39:21 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? > > Hobbytown USA on Cleveland in Redmond > > Galaxy Hobby on Hwy 99 in Lynnwood > > Occasionally, I've even seen them at Michaels Crafts (various locations) > > If these are too far out of your way, I could scoop two boxes up for you > early next week and meet you halfway somewhere. Email me off-list if we need > to pursue this. > > I have a stock of my own (from internet vendor A2Z Hobby) that I'd offer, > but I need them for a Scout group that is coming to the Fathers Day launch > at 60 Acres. > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Deputy" > To: "'NW Rocketry mailing list'" > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:42 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? > > > > Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of > > estes > > motors? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as > > I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and > > the field isn't big enough to support that. I need 40 A8-3's, or could > > possibly make due with B6-4's. Any leads would be appreciated. > > > > Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have > > them > > shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're > > hazmat. At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating > > them. > > > > Thanks > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From stefan_jones at comcast.net Fri Jun 5 10:05:24 2009 From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (stefan_jones at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:05:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry at Maker Faire 2009 In-Reply-To: <4A2933CE.4070906@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <67707702.919391244221524577.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I was there! I dropped by the LUNAR booth early on Saturday afternoon to see if they needed any help. They had gone through all but 100 of the 900 or so Quest rockets that they'd brought for a build-and-fly activity. A lot of models got flown that day. My Flickr page for the Faire: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stefan_e_jones/sets/72157619121497684/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hammer" To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 8:03:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry at Maker Faire 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4FWVtjXS-A http://makerfaire.com/ -------------- next part -------------- I was there! I dropped by the LUNAR booth early on Saturday afternoon to see if they needed any help. They had gone through all but 100 of the 900 or so Quest rockets that they'd brought for a build-and-fly activity. A lot of models got flown that day. My Flickr page for the Faire: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stefan_e_jones/sets/72157619121497684/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hammer" To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 8:03:42 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocketry at Maker Faire 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4FWVtjXS-A http://makerfaire.com/ From t.j.doll at att.net Fri Jun 5 10:51:09 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:51:09 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? Message-ID: <060520091751.8138.4A295B0D000134CA00001FCA22230682329B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> I've got an unopened Estes "Blast Off Flight Pack" - six each A8-3, B6-4, C6-3, and C6-5, and another opened pack with four each A8-3 and B6-4. I got the unopened pack to give to my sister's kid for Christmas, but he apparently discovered girls and forgot about rockets, and I have little use for anything smaller than a C. I live in south Everett - if you're willing to pick them up you can have the mess for $40. Tim >Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? > >Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes >motors? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as >I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and >the field isn't big enough to support that. I need 40 A8-3's, or could >possibly make due with B6-4's. Any leads would be appreciated. -------------- next part -------------- I've got an unopened Estes "Blast Off Flight Pack" - six each A8-3, B6-4, C6-3, and C6-5, and another opened pack with four each A8-3 and B6-4.? I got the unopened pack to give to my sister's kid for Christmas, but he apparently discovered girls and forgot about rockets, and I have little use for anything smaller than a C. ? I live in south Everett - if you're willing to pick them up you can have the mess for $40. ? Tim ? >Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? > >Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes >motors?? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as >I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and >the field isn't big enough to support that.? I need 40 A8-3's, or could >possibly make due with B6-4's.? Any leads would be appreciated. From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri Jun 5 11:11:17 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:11:17 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? In-Reply-To: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> References: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20991243F9@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> You really want stock go see Dick of Bellevue Hobby - it's in the basement of this older gentleman's house. If you can handle lots of cats and have the time for a hand written receipt he gives I think 30% off and he must have several 1000's of pounds of A-D motors. 1816 151st Ave SE Bellevue, WA 98007 - 6102 (425) 746-5036 call first to make sure he's home. b -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:42 AM To: 'NW Rocketry mailing list' Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes motors? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and the field isn't big enough to support that. I need 40 A8-3's, or could possibly make due with B6-4's. Any leads would be appreciated. Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have them shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're hazmat. At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating them. Thanks _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at blastzone.com Fri Jun 5 11:31:40 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:31:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? In-Reply-To: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> References: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> Message-ID: <167c01c9e60b$df08bb90$9d1a32b0$@com> Thanks all for the responses! I think I have it covered, but if anything falls through I've got lots of backups. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Greg Deputy > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:42 AM > To: 'NW Rocketry mailing list' > Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? > > Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes > motors? I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as > I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and > the field isn't big enough to support that. I need 40 A8-3's, or could > possibly make due with B6-4's. Any leads would be appreciated. > > Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have them > shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're > hazmat. At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating > them. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From apyro4hire at comcast.net Fri Jun 5 12:01:42 2009 From: apyro4hire at comcast.net (apyro4hire at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:01:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Fwd: Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? In-Reply-To: <15aa01c9e5f4$3b4c3200$b1e49600$@com> Message-ID: <1794700935.1030651244228502116.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> MMM Anyone thought of Holdens Hobbies??in??Auburn Wa....????? ?????? We Specialize in??Rocketry and have over 100 rocket kits in stock.?? Including Estes, Quest,??PML, and Madcow rocketry! We also have motors in cluding bulk packs. Shouldn't be a problem to fill the order. For directions or more info go to www.holdenshobbies.com or Call Chris Holden at 253-961-3095 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "Greg Deputy" To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 8:42:28 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes motors? ??I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and the field isn't big enough to support that. ??I need 40 A8-3's, or could possibly make due with B6-4's. ??Any leads would be appreciated. Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have them shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're hazmat. ??At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating them. ?? Thanks _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ???? -------------- next part -------------- MMM Anyone thought of Holdens Hobbies?in?Auburn Wa....??? ? ??? We Specialize in?Rocketry and have over 100 rocket kits in stock.? Including Estes, Quest,?PML, and Madcow rocketry! We also have motors in cluding bulk packs. Shouldn't be a problem to fill the order. For directions or more info go to http://www.holdenshobbies.com/ www.holdenshobbies.com or Call Chris Holden at 253-961-3095 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "Greg Deputy" To: "NW Rocketry mailing list" Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 8:42:28 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Anyone in seattle stock estes Bulk Packs A8-3's ? Does anyone in the Seattle / Tacoma area stock educator bulk packs of estes motors? ?I'm doing an elementary school build and launch next week, and as I'm going through my stuff I've realized all the motors I have are C's and the field isn't big enough to support that. ?I need 40 A8-3's, or could possibly make due with B6-4's. ?Any leads would be appreciated. Need these by Thursday of next week, and its too late to order and have them shipped as they have to go super slow boat 3rd class ground since they're hazmat. ?At least, that's how everyplace I've looked at so far is treating them. ? Thanks _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Fri Jun 5 14:29:15 2009 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:29:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech reloads and hardware sale - 20 to 25% off In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC52F@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC52F@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDFEB2CC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> I had a couple people ask me if Tammie's was going to have a sale to celebrate the lawsuit victory. Well I looked at them kind of funny, as I posted this message for Duane last week. I've changed the subject to make it more apparent. Enjoy! John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:23 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] It's APCP Freedom Sale Days at Tammie's Hobbies Duane asked me to pass this information along. All 29mm and 38mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 20% off MSRP All 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 25% off MSRP No limits, No LEUP needed. Best of all, the pricing is available on both in stock and ordered items. Option for delivery to OROC launches is available. Sale ends June 15, 2009. Tammie's Hobbies 12024 SW Canyon Rd Beaverton,Oregon 97005 Phone # (503)644-4535 10am to 8pm on Weekdays. 10am to 5pm on Saturday. 12pm to 5pm on Sunday. www.tammieshobbies.com From bigredbee at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 14:59:20 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:59:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Higher powered BeeLine transmitter? Message-ID: Just bouncing an idea around. What would y'all think about a higher powered BeeLine transmitter? Current version is limited to about 16 milliwatts. I've been playing around with a solution that delivers around 100 mw. The new board would be just a little longer and consume 3-4x the power while the transmitter was active. Battery life would still be in excess of 10 hours. Cost? TBD but perhaps an additional $20 on top of the $59 base price? Comments? -- Greg From Mfreptiles at aol.com Fri Jun 5 18:04:53 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:04:53 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Higher powered BeeLine transmitter? Message-ID: Yes. Mike F. In a message dated 6/5/2009 3:00:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bigredbee at gmail.com writes: Just bouncing an idea around. What would y'all think about a higher powered BeeLine transmitter? Current version is limited to about 16 milliwatts. I've been playing around with a solution that delivers around 100 mw. The new board would be just a little longer and consume 3-4x the power while the transmitter was active. Battery life would still be in excess of 10 hours. Cost? TBD but perhaps an additional $20 on top of the $59 base price? Comments? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) -------------- next part -------------- Yes. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 6/5/2009 3:00:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bigredbee at gmail.com writes: Just bouncing an idea around.? What would y'all think about a higher powered BeeLine transmitter? Current version is limited to about 16 milliwatts. I've been playing around with a solution that delivers around 100 mw. The new board would be just a little longer and consume 3-4x the power while the transmitter was active.? Battery life would still be in excess of 10 hours. Cost?? TBD but perhaps an additional $20 on top of the $59 base price? Comments? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets We found the real ' http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/lyrical-landmarks/258/41.19651/-110.832818/2/The-Eagles-Hotel-California?ncid=emlcntnew00000006 Hotel California ' and the ' http://www.whereitsat.com/#/television/totally-tv/165/47.871213/-66.348481/2/Seinfeld-Diner?ncid=emlcntnew00000005 Seinfeld ' diner. What will you find? http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=emlcntnew00000007 Explore WhereItsAt.com . From tnetcenter at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 19:37:30 2009 From: tnetcenter at gmail.com (Jeff Moore) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:37:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Higher powered BeeLine transmitter? References: Message-ID: I second that motion! Jeff M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yes. Mike F. In a message dated 6/5/2009 3:00:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bigredbee at gmail.com writes: Just bouncing an idea around. What would y'all think about a higher powered BeeLine transmitter? Current version is limited to about 16 milliwatts. I've been playing around with a solution that delivers around 100 mw. The new board would be just a little longer and consume 3-4x the power while the transmitter was active. Battery life would still be in excess of 10 hours. Cost? TBD but perhaps an additional $20 on top of the $59 base price? Comments? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From adrian.l.carbine at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 22:01:20 2009 From: adrian.l.carbine at gmail.com (Adrian L Carbine) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:01:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Higher powered BeeLine transmitter? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds like just the ticket for rocket-hunting in the sage. Or even on the other side of Brothers. :-) --- Adrian On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Greg Clark wrote: > Just bouncing an idea around. What would y'all think about a higher > powered BeeLine transmitter? > > Current version is limited to about 16 milliwatts. > > I've been playing around with a solution that delivers around 100 mw. > > The new board would be just a little longer and consume 3-4x the power > while the transmitter was active. Battery life would still be in > excess of 10 hours. > > Cost? TBD but perhaps an additional $20 on top of the $59 base price? > > Comments? > > -- Greg > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- Sounds like just the ticket for rocket-hunting in the sage. Or even on the other side of Brothers. :-) --- Adrian On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Greg Clark < mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com > wrote: Just bouncing an idea around. ?What would y'all think about a higher powered BeeLine transmitter? Current version is limited to about 16 milliwatts. I've been playing around with a solution that delivers around 100 mw. The new board would be just a little longer and consume 3-4x the power while the transmitter was active. ?Battery life would still be in excess of 10 hours. Cost? ?TBD but perhaps an additional $20 on top of the $59 base price? Comments? -- Greg _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bigredbee at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 23:12:26 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 23:12:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Higher powered BeeLine transmitter? In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E394A9E68@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E394A9E68@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: More power isn't going to make it easier to pinpoint direction, if anything, might actually make it more difficult and make an attenuator more of a necessity. Regarding reflections -- that's all part of the fun ;) JP and I spent two hours finding one of my rockets in May with a BeeLine beacon in it. It landed about 1 mile NE of the pads in a shallow depression. We had good signal from camp, but then things got all wacky. We went up to the water tower and got a reading, and the again from further down the north/south road along the ridge. Eventually found it, but is was a difficult hunt. One observation: The nose cone was buried about 1" below the kitty litter, and the tip of the antenna was in the tip of the nosecone. In the future, I will place the transmitter in the nosecone "backwards", so that the antenna is pointing back towards the body tube. The next flight I used the GPS -- found it in 10 minutes ;) -- Greg On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Krausert, Robert wrote: > Being a new yagi user, and I'm going to ask a dumb question. You know me, so it should not be a surprise. ;-) > > OK, here goes. Having higher power, will it be easier to pin point? At 100mW, can the signal bounce and potentially create false directions? Stop launghing. I've noticed with my current BeeLine, that when I place it the neighborhood, I sometimes get a semi-strong signal if I point at something that can reflect the signal. Now at Brothers, we have sage and kitty litter, which likely absorbs everything. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:59 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Higher powered BeeLine transmitter? > > Just bouncing an idea around. ?What would y'all think about a higher > powered BeeLine transmitter? > > Current version is limited to about 16 milliwatts. > > I've been playing around with a solution that delivers around 100 mw. > > The new board would be just a little longer and consume 3-4x the power > while the transmitter was active. ?Battery life would still be in > excess of 10 hours. > > Cost? ?TBD but perhaps an additional $20 on top of the $59 base price? > > Comments? > > -- Greg > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Sat Jun 6 07:53:50 2009 From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net (Mark Dunkle) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 07:53:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm fwd seal disk Message-ID: Last year I used a k550 and a k695 without the seal disk. This year something I read is making me think that I'll need the seal disk. I've been looking online but I can't seem to find one. Do any of you know if I need one and if I do where online can I buy one -------------- next part -------------- ??? Last year I used a k550 and a k695 without the seal disk. This year something I read is making me think that I'll need the seal disk. I've been looking online but I can't seem to find one. Do any of you know if I need one and if I do where online can I buy one From appusher at q.com Sat Jun 6 08:03:19 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 15:03:19 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm fwd seal disk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes you do need one. I have them in stock for $15.00. Bill Sales PugetSoundPropulsion.com EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 07:53:50 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm fwd seal disk > > Last year I used a k550 and a k695 without the seal disk. This year something I read is making me think that I'll need the seal disk. I've been looking online but I can't seem to find one. Do any of you know if I need one and if I do where online can I buy one -------------- next part -------------- Yes you do need one. ? I have them in stock for $15.00. ? ? Bill?? Sales PugetSoundPropulsion.com http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: Dunkman2000 at comcast.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 07:53:50 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm fwd seal disk > > Last year I used a k550 and a k695 without the seal disk. This year something I read is making me think that I'll need the seal disk. I've been looking online but I can't seem to find one. Do any of you know if I need one and if I do where online can I buy one From rocketsrfun at msn.com Sat Jun 6 08:09:09 2009 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 08:09:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm fwd seal disk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can order them from Aerotech. http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Dunkle To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm fwd seal disk Last year I used a k550 and a k695 without the seal disk. This year something I read is making me think that I'll need the seal disk. I've been looking online but I can't seem to find one. Do any of you know if I need one and if I do where online can I buy one_______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- You can order them from Aerotech. ? http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ ? ? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:Dunkman2000 at comcast.net Mark Dunkle To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] 54mm fwd seal disk ??? Last year I used a k550 and a k695 without the seal disk. This year something I read is making me think that I'll need the seal disk. I've been looking online but I can't seem to find one. Do any of you know if I need one and if I do where online can I buy one_______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 18:44:41 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:44:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Summer Skies Rocket Lauch Event June 19-21 2009 Message-ID: <35AF140FB1CF40C9A55A40A31AFA2618@LaptopKrausert> OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Summer Skies rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening June 19th through 21st. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us. Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the largest and most popular OregonRocketry launch at Brothers each year. We can easily expect to see 200+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. June 19th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch these events. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Saturday June 20th and Sunday June 21st are commercial motor only days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!! Drawing: We will be giving two tickets to kids and one ticket to adults during the morning and afternoon Saturday. We will be holding several drawings to win prizes. So be sure to get your ticket or tickets on Saturday before the drawings. A chance to win great prizes. The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by either a launch controller officer and or range safety officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. Summer Skies is a great launch event, and very popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun and maybe win a prize. We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. Directions: We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Summer begins at 10:46PM local time on Saturday June 20th. Some of us will be at the community fire to ring in the Summer solstice. New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we'll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. Stop by the registration table for a wristband. All visitors and members will be required to have a signed release form for landowners. We have a new release form for one of the landowners, everyone will be required to sign before getting a wristband. Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, June 19th - 21st. Cheers, Robert OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - -------------- next part -------------- OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Summer Skies rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening June 19th through 21st. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us.? Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the largest and most popular OregonRocketry launch at Brothers each year. We can easily expect to see 200+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch?typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. June 19th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch these events. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Saturday June 20th and Sunday June 21st are commercial motor only days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!! Drawing: We will be giving two tickets to kids and one ticket to adults during the morning and afternoon Saturday. We will be holding several drawings to win prizes. So be sure to get your ticket or tickets on Saturday before the drawings. A chance to win great prizes. The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by either a launch controller officer and or range safety officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. Summer Skies is a great launch event, and very popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun and maybe win a prize. We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. Directions: We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Summer begins at 10:46PM local time on Saturday June 20th. Some of us will be at the community fire to ring in the Summer solstice. New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. Stop by the registration table for a wristband. All visitors and members will be required to have a signed release form for landowners. We have a new release form for one of the landowners, everyone will be required to sign before getting a wristband. Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, June 19th - 21st. Cheers, Robert OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - ? ? ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 16:15:05 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:15:05 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Summer Skies; Certification Flights Message-ID: <6894D9080FB941FAAD5E90AABED42EFD@LaptopKrausert> If you're not planning a certification flight at OregonRocketry's Summer Skies, June 20th and 21st, you can stop reading and delete this message. --- If you're planning a certification flight or flights at Summer Skies, please complete the following information and reply to just me. 1. Name: 2. National Org (NAR or TRA): 3. National org #: 4. Cert Level Attempt: 5. When (day (20th or 21st) and approximate time): 6. if #2 & #3 are N/A; What national org are you planning to join at the event?: 7. (optional) What are you flying & motor? You do not need to be an OROC member to certify. You however need to be a member of either NAR or TRA. Kit built rockets, know the stability, CoG, CoP, and delay recommendations. Scratch built rockets, bring the same plus simulation data. Bring your membership paperwork Without the paperwork is kind of a bummer. And in the event you do certify, bring your checkbook. We'll have a vendor onsite that would be happy to help you select great motors. ;-) Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- If you're not planning a certification flight at OregonRocketry's Summer Skies, June 20th and 21st, you can stop reading and delete this message. ? --- ? If you're planning a certification flight or flights at Summer Skies, please complete the following information and reply to just me. ? 1. Name: 2. National Org (NAR or TRA): 3. National org #: 4. Cert Level Attempt: 5. When (day (20th or 21st) and approximate time): 6. if #2 & #3 are N/A; What national org are you planning to join at the event?: 7. (optional) What are you flying & motor? ? You do not need to be an OROC member to certify. You however need to be a member of either NAR or TRA. ? Kit built rockets, know the stability, CoG, CoP, and delay recommendations. Scratch built rockets, bring the same plus simulation data. ? Bring your membership paperwork Without the paperwork is kind of a bummer. ? And in the event you do certify, bring your checkbook. We'll have a vendor onsite that would be happy to help you select great motors. ;-) ? Cheers, Robert From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue Jun 9 10:59:45 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:59:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009 DVD Message-ID: <4A2EA311.2080507@hawkfeather.com> Info on ordering the FITS 2009 DVD from Kent are on the WAC home page. http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/ Andrew. From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Tue Jun 9 15:25:55 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:25:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Launch Announcement: Father's Day Fun Fly, 60 Acres Park, 21JUN09/0930-1400 Message-ID: <4A2EE173.2040303@earthlink.net> Launch Name: Father's Day Fun Fly Location: 60 Acres Park, north field Date: 21 June 2009 Time: 9:30AM to 2:00PM The Father's Day Fun Fly rocket launch, hosted by no one in particular, which will be held at 60 Acres Park in Redmond, Washington. Launch operations will commence on Sunday, 21 June 2009 at 9:30AM and conclude around 2:00PM I'd like to encourage all fathers to bring their sons out to this launch. Several people will be bringing their own launch pads and launch controllers to the launch site as the non-existent launch host has none to provide. Fly your rocket!! All rockets from 1/4A to H power are welcome. Regardless of motor, you must ensure your rocket can land within the confines of the park. Spot landings are encouraged! This launch allows only FAA "Class 1" rockets - up to 125g of propellant, and max rocket weight of 1,500 grams (3.3 lbs) Win a prize!! Roadside Hobbies is sponsoring a "spot landing contest." Land your rocket closest to the "SPOT" and win rocket goodies! See big rockets!! There will be mid-power demonstration flights throughout the day plus a static display of large high power rockets. Fly Safely!! Flying safely is critical to our continued access to the field. Please refrain from landsharking, cruisemissling, lawndarting, and coresampling. Anyone flying for the first time is more than welcome to present their rocket to one of the seasoned rocketeers for a safety inspection. 60 Acres Park is located in the very beautiful, scenic, and sunny metropolis of Redmond, Washington and is very easy to find. If your rocket needs directions to the launch site please enter this address below into Google Earth or other mapping website or software. 15200 NE 116th Street, Remond, WA 98052. The park is split in half by NE 116th street. Launch and recovery operations will be conducted on the north side of the field with parking available. For more info go to http://www.60acres.org/ . When you leave the launch site please be sure to take all of your belongings and trash. If you leave anything, please be sure it's something we'd like to have. Even though there are garbage containers on the field, they don't get emptied on a regular basis. See you at the launch! From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Tue Jun 9 15:37:09 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:37:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Roadside Rockets Message-ID: <4A2EE415.2020207@earthlink.net> Roadside Rockets This is a collection of missiles, rockets, and rocket shape items located on roadways and highways throughout the world. Get out the road atlas and plan your next family road trip! It's time again for another special collection of rocket related flotsam from Rocket Team Vatsaas. You won't want to miss any of these attractions on your next family vacation! Be sure to pack a tape measure, graph paper, and lots of Dramamine. It's difficult to categorize how these stationary monuments to rocket flight have found their way into the public eye. Some are memorials to the heroic sacrifices made by the armed services. Some are peculiar scrap metal art projects. Some are political statements. Without us knowing it, some may even be a rusty tribute to an unnamed fertility god. We will leave it up to you to decide if any of them are even remotely interesting. http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/misc/roadside/rockets.aspx Editors Note: We definitely need to build a big rocket for Mansfield so we can have it on this list. From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Jun 10 00:53:14 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Roadside Rockets In-Reply-To: <4A2EE415.2020207@earthlink.net> References: <4A2EE415.2020207@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <58dd3fdf7a05a3f70d6911ec7294c7e8.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Darn! That exposes most of the ways I disguise my New Year's skyrockets from the fire marshal! +McG+ > Roadside Rockets > > This is a collection of missiles, rockets, and rocket shape items > located on roadways and highways throughout the world. > > Get out the road atlas and plan your next family road trip! > > It's time again for another special collection of rocket related flotsam > from Rocket Team Vatsaas. You won't want to miss any of these > attractions on your next family vacation! Be sure to pack a tape > measure, graph paper, and lots of Dramamine. > > It's difficult to categorize how these stationary monuments to rocket > flight have found their way into the public eye. Some are memorials to > the heroic sacrifices made by the armed services. Some are peculiar > scrap metal art projects. Some are political statements. Without us > knowing it, some may even be a rusty tribute to an unnamed fertility > god. We will leave it up to you to decide if any of them are even > remotely interesting. > > http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/misc/roadside/rockets.aspx > > > Editors Note: We definitely need to build a big rocket for Mansfield so > we can have it on this list. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From jhadv at pacifier.com Wed Jun 10 09:47:51 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:47:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] PAGING GREG DEPUTY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090610094550.00c48008@mail.iinet.com> Greg; If you could please get ahold of me off list that would be great. Thank you in advance. From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Tue Jun 9 21:34:41 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:34:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Flyer Message-ID: <4A2F37E1.8070600@earthlink.net> Dave Randall made a flyer for the launch that you can post at your local hobby shop. It has been posted on the RocketsNW Image Gallery for download. http://www.rocketsnw.com/uploads/fathersday%20launch%20flyer-1.pdf Robert From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Wed Jun 10 07:14:35 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:14:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lunar Orbiter III 70mm photo of the Moon Message-ID: <4A2FBFCB.5040808@earthlink.net> http://www.moonviews.com/archives/2009/06/lunar_orbiter_image_recovery_p_5.html * The Lunar Orbiter Image Recovery Project* (LOIRP) has released a newly-retrieved, high resolution image taken of the lunar surface 42 years ago. * This image was taken by Lunar Orbiter III* (LPI data) in February 1967. This oblique photo shows the region around the crater Galilaei and Planitia Descensus in Oceanus Procellarum (the Sea of Storms). In the upper center of the image you can see the Great Wall of Procellarum. http://images.spaceref.com/news/2009/lowresversionloiii214m.med.jpg Wiki on Lunar Orbiter III. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Orbiter_3 Wiki on the Lunar Orbiter Program. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Orbiter Lunar Orbiter Photo Gallery http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/lunarorbiter/ From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Wed Jun 10 18:36:06 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC club meeting/GSE cleaning Message-ID: <002001c9ea34$fd407a30$f7c16e90$@net> Hi everyone. This is a reminder that we'll be having the club meeting after the GSE cleaning party on Saturday June 13th. We'll be meeting at Dan Work's home at 10:00 AM and his address is below. There will be coffee and doughnuts. Please let me know if you plan on attending. Thanks, Mike 37222 28th Ave S Federal Way, WA. 98003 -------------- next part -------------- Hi everyone. This is a reminder that we???ll be having the club meeting after the GSE cleaning party on Saturday June 13 th . We???ll be meeting at Dan Work???s home at 10:00 AM and his address is below. There will be coffee and doughnuts. Please let me know if you plan on attending. ? ? Thanks, Mike ? 37222 28th Ave S Federal Way, WA. 98003 ? From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Thu Jun 11 09:56:23 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:56:23 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: June Launch Update..... Message-ID: Greeting all flyers for the June OROC launch.... I know most of you are excited about the ATF change on motor purchases, which allows you to purchase motors and store them, and we are too!!! I will not have a booth at the June launch, as we have said previously. Many of you have pre-ordered motors and they will be delivered to the launch site by our BORG group. Remember that we carry everything from low power to high power.............. If you would like to purchase any motors, parts, kits or supplies prior to the event, please let me know ASAP and I will pull them out for you and have them delivered. Thanks again for your support, as all proceeds from your purchase help support our educational programs at the observatory. Happy flying and we will see you at the July launch! Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory From scott at scottsrockets.com Thu Jun 11 11:57:54 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:57:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Garmin GPS users Message-ID: <2C29D200C5134B0E86B4DE3DC8FB0FC6@Mobile2> Found this site with tons of free maps better than Garmin has available. http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/ Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -------------- next part -------------- Found this site with tons of free maps better than Garmin has available. ? http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/ http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/ ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 17:42:07 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:42:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] We Are Go!!! OregonRocketry Summer Skies Rocket Launch Event June 19-21 2009 Message-ID: <24CAD3D622B944AC9E23DEB1D1A10AEF@LaptopKrausert> Weather looks great; temperatures in the upper 70's and typical winds. Forecast right now is only 10 to 13 MPH winds from the West. Morning and evening winds are forecasted as calm. Hope you can make this event. See you on the sage in 7 days. Also want to thank Jim and Joe for hauling the GSE trailer. OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Summer Skies rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening June 19th through 21st. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us. Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the largest and most popular OregonRocketry launch at Brothers each year. We can easily expect to see 200+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. June 19th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch these events. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Saturday June 20th and Sunday June 21st are commercial motor only days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!! Drawing: We will be giving two tickets to kids and one ticket to adults during the morning and afternoon Saturday. We will be holding several drawings to win prizes. So be sure to get your ticket or tickets on Saturday before the drawings. A chance to win great prizes. The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by either a launch controller officer and or range safety officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. Summer Skies is a great launch event, and very popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun and maybe win a prize. We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. Directions: We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Summer begins at 10:46PM local time on Saturday June 20th. Some of us will be at the community fire to ring in the Summer solstice. New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we'll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. Stop by the registration table for a wristband. All visitors and members will be required to have a signed release form for landowners. We have a new release form for one of the landowners, everyone will be required to sign before getting a wristband. Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, June 19th - 21st. Cheers, Robert OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - -------------- next part -------------- Weather looks great; temperatures in the upper 70's and typical winds. Forecast right now is only 10 to 13 MPH winds from the West. Morning and evening winds are forecasted as calm. Hope you can make this event. See you on the sage in 7 days. Also want to thank Jim and Joe for hauling the GSE trailer. OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Summer Skies rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening June 19th through 21st. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us.? Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is the largest and most popular OregonRocketry launch at Brothers each year. We can easily expect to see 200+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch?typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. June 19th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch these events. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Saturday June 20th and Sunday June 21st are commercial motor only days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!! Drawing: We will be giving two tickets to kids and one ticket to adults during the morning and afternoon Saturday. We will be holding several drawings to win prizes. So be sure to get your ticket or tickets on Saturday before the drawings. A chance to win great prizes. The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by either a launch controller officer and or range safety officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. Summer Skies is a great launch event, and very popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun and maybe win a prize. We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. Directions: We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. Summer begins at 10:46PM local time on Saturday June 20th. Some of us will be at the community fire to ring in the Summer solstice. New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. Stop by the registration table for a wristband. All visitors and members will be required to have a signed release form for landowners. We have a new release form for one of the landowners, everyone will be required to sign before getting a wristband. Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, June 19th - 21st. Cheers, Robert OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - OREGONROCKETRY - SUMMER SKIES - ? From scott at scottsrockets.com Fri Jun 12 20:36:13 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:36:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Zeiger Elementary Message-ID: <100FCFC164504800A2909724F9365C6C@Mobile2> Helped out the kids at Zeiger Elementary with their rockets today, put a couple photos on the NW Rocketry site. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -------------- next part -------------- Helped out the kids at Zeiger Elementary with their rockets today, put a couple photos on the NW Rocketry site. ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 21:24:14 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:24:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Zeiger Elementary References: <100FCFC164504800A2909724F9365C6C@Mobile2> Message-ID: Scott, I'd recommend sending an abstract story and image 3824 and 3789 to NAR for their monthly publication. Those two images are fantastic for showing newbies to the hobby. They are both great shots, well done. 3783 is a great emotion, but the missing nosecone. I think you should send in 3824 and 3789. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Zeiger Elementary > Helped out the kids at Zeiger Elementary with their rockets today, put a > couple photos on the NW Rocketry site. > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From jim at discountrocketry.com Fri Jun 12 22:05:40 2009 From: jim at discountrocketry.com (Jim Myres) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:05:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mudroc High Power Motor Update Message-ID: <20090613050539.IIPJ20430.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Discount Rocketry will be attending Mudroc! We have been getting some pre-orders for the Mudroc launch at Blackrock so I've attached the updated list of High Power motors that will be available at Mudroc. These motors are on sale at 20% off current list. The good news is the LEUP is not required for purchase of High Power motors! We require only a copy of your NAR or Tripoli Certification card with certification level on file. Please place your orders as soon as possible. The list will be first come first serve. if you request motors that are already purchased or reserved for the launch, we will contact you to see if we have any substitutions that will work for you. Please leave a phone number on your email request so we can contact you to arrange substitutions. If the Mudroc launch is cancelled we can ship motors to you by Fedex Ground HAZMAT at our regular HAZMAT shipping rates. We can quote you the shipping if it becomes necessary. You can also call me at (760) 224-0950 to order. Thanks, Jim Myres -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Discount Rocketry Motor Stock as of 6-12-09.pdf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 9401 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/rockets/attachments/20090612/d9781029/attachment-0001.obj From Mfreptiles at aol.com Fri Jun 12 22:06:47 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:06:47 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Easy-up canopy Message-ID: Well, after eight seasons, I checked my easy up cover to find that it was brittle and tearing. I know a few of you have had your easy-up frames torn up by dust devils and was wondering if anyone on the list might have a spare canopy for a 10x10 that they might be able to bring to Brothers for me. I'll pay a fair price if it fits. Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- Well, after eight seasons, I checked my easy up cover to find that it was brittle and tearing.? ? I know a few of you have had your easy-up frames torn up by dust devils and was wondering if anyone on the list might have a spare canopy for a 10x10 that they might be able to bring to Brothers for me.? I'll pay a fair price if it fits. ? Mike F. Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From jpr602 at mac.com Sat Jun 13 08:16:06 2009 From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:16:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] We Are Go!!! OregonRocketry Summer Skies Rocket Launch Event June 19-21 2009 In-Reply-To: <24CAD3D622B944AC9E23DEB1D1A10AEF@LaptopKrausert> References: <24CAD3D622B944AC9E23DEB1D1A10AEF@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <3FD29C31-BC09-4DCE-B81D-6C187EDA5D8F@mac.com> Don't forget that there's a separate Research Safety Code: http://www.tripoli.org/documents/ResearchSafetyCode_Jan_09_r3.pdf Section 9 is the part that flyers need to be familiar with. Many research flyers have never looked at it, apparently. There is a precedent for OROC banning flyers who have not heeded the safety codes. From holdencurrency at comcast.net Sat Jun 13 16:56:49 2009 From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:56:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging Kent Newman Message-ID: <1943705099.1363301244937409753.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Paging Kent Newman....... Please call Chris Holden ...... 253-961-3095 -------------- next part -------------- Paging Kent Newman....... Please call Chris Holden ...... 253-961-3095 From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sat Jun 13 23:14:27 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 02:14:27 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Message-ID: Anybody want to share what they plan on flying? I'm planning on flying the world's first 38mm L motor on Friday. It is 64" long. (No, I'm not kidding). Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- Anybody want to share what they plan on flying? ? I'm planning on flying the world's first 38mm L motor on Friday.? It is 64" long.? (No, I'm not kidding). ? Mike F. ? ? Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From fred at azinger.com Sun Jun 14 06:27:21 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:27:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501c9ecf3$d9165fa0$8b431ee0$@com> Cool Mike, Team Hardtail plans an assortment of research flights -- the usual handful of K's and a few L's and M's. Nothing fancy this time -- plan to burn my 98mm Fynocyl motor today as I can't wait to next weekend to burn at the launch....really anxious to see how that does.....sorry OROC. See ya in the sage! FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:14 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Anybody want to share what they plan on flying? I'm planning on flying the world's first 38mm L motor on Friday. It is 64" long. (No, I'm not kidding). Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 04) From jjarmitage at earthlink.net Sun Jun 14 08:35:00 2009 From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (jjarmitage at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 8:35:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Message-ID: <20090614153724.VGKG13268.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@COM> Man, I wanna see video of that! What's the burn duration? jjarmitage at earthlink.net 253 205 7722 Sent from my Palm Tr?o -----Original Message----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com Subj: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:15 pm Size: 370 bytes To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Anybody want to share what they plan on flying? I'm planning on flying the world's first 38mm L motor on Friday. It is 64" long. (No, I'm not kidding). Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) --- message truncated --- From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun Jun 14 08:47:27 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:47:27 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Message-ID: I've taken video of the 38mm K. Very uneventful, just a flash and it's gone. Burn duration (if it doesn't cato) should be about 1.2s. If I've done well with my vac processing it will be closer to 1.5s. I'd give some basic performance predictions, but I'll wait until I have hard data from the altimeter since the sim numbers are almost unbelievable. Rocket without motor is just under one pound. Hopefully we're not picking up pieces later. Mike F. In a message dated 6/14/2009 8:38:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jjarmitage at earthlink.net writes: Man, I wanna see video of that! What's the burn duration? jjarmitage at earthlink.net 253 205 7722 Sent from my Palm Tr?o -----Original Message----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com Subj: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:15 pm Size: 370 bytes To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Anybody want to share what they plan on flying? I'm planning on flying the world's first 38mm L motor on Friday. It is 64" long. (No, I'm not kidding). Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 04) --- message truncated --- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- I've taken video of the 38mm K.? Very uneventful, just a flash and it's gone.? Burn duration (if it doesn't cato) should be about 1.2s.??If I've done well with my vac processing it will be closer to 1.5s.? I'd give some basic performance predictions, but I'll wait until I have hard data from the altimeter since the sim numbers are almost unbelievable.?? Rocket without motor is just under one pound.? Hopefully we're not picking up pieces later. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 6/14/2009 8:38:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jjarmitage at earthlink.net writes: Man, I wanna see video of that! What's the burn duration? jjarmitage at earthlink.net 253 205 7722 Sent from my Palm Tr?o -----Original Message----- From:? Mfreptiles at aol.com Subj:? [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Date:? Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:15 pm Size:? 370 bytes To:? rockets at rocketsnw.com Anybody want to share what they plan on flying? I'm planning on flying the world's first 38mm L motor on Friday.? It? is 64" long.? (No, I'm not kidding). Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) --- message truncated --- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From jjarmitage at earthlink.net Sun Jun 14 08:57:09 2009 From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:57:09 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5462F33BE16C437DB1270E9CC9F7C29F@DellNotebook> Yeah, I can imagine the numbers. What altimeter are you subjecting to this cannon shot? Wish I could make it this year...already blew my fun budget john -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:47 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights I've taken video of the 38mm K. Very uneventful, just a flash and it's gone. Burn duration (if it doesn't cato) should be about 1.2s. If I've done well with my vac processing it will be closer to 1.5s. I'd give some basic performance predictions, but I'll wait until I have hard data from the altimeter since the sim numbers are almost unbelievable. Rocket without motor is just under one pound. Hopefully we're not picking up pieces later. Mike F. In a message dated 6/14/2009 8:38:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jjarmitage at earthlink.net writes: Man, I wanna see video of that! What's the burn duration? jjarmitage at earthlink.net 253 205 7722 Sent from my Palm Tr?o -----Original Message----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com Subj: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Date: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:15 pm Size: 370 bytes To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Anybody want to share what they plan on flying? I'm planning on flying the world's first 38mm L motor on Friday. It is 64" long. (No, I'm not kidding). Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 04) --- message truncated --- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 04) From jhadv at pacifier.com Sun Jun 14 12:21:41 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:21:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers EX flights. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090614121651.00c51ea8@mail.iinet.com> What time Friday do you plan on launching? I wouldn't want to miss this. Do you have to wait for the trailer or are you bringing your own rail? A one pound rocket with a 38mm L motor! Wow. That is very ambitious. Wishing you all the best. Can't wait to see it, for a second or so at least provided my neck snaps back fast enough to keep it in my gaze. From fred at azinger.com Sun Jun 14 12:43:28 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:43:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights In-Reply-To: <002501c9ecf3$d9165fa0$8b431ee0$@com> References: <002501c9ecf3$d9165fa0$8b431ee0$@com> Message-ID: <005a01c9ed28$6473b870$2d5b2950$@com> Success!!! Was a little hard to light due to all the Mann-400 used on the mandrel. Third time was a charm. NICE BURN -- Nice flat start and clean shut-down. I posted a still frame from about mid-burn to NW Rocketry. http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg This is a single grain 98mm motor. Grain is 9" long and has a Finocyl core of 5/8" with six 1/8" x 0.3" fins. Video to follow. FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Fred Azinger Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:27 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Cool Mike, Team Hardtail plans an assortment of research flights -- the usual handful of K's and a few L's and M's. Nothing fancy this time -- plan to burn my 98mm Fynocyl motor today as I can't wait to next weekend to burn at the launch....really anxious to see how that does.....sorry OROC. See ya in the sage! FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:14 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Brother's EX flights Anybody want to share what they plan on flying? I'm planning on flying the world's first 38mm L motor on Friday. It is 64" long. (No, I'm not kidding). Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 04) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Fri Jun 12 11:41:18 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:41:18 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Boy hit by meteorite Message-ID: <4A32A14E.3060403@earthlink.net> http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Fri Jun 12 11:54:59 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:54:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Space Shuttle Launch STS-127, Saturday, 13JUN09/0417PDT, 1117UTC Message-ID: <4A32A483.6060704@earthlink.net> STS-127 (ISS assembly flight 2J/A) is the next space shuttle mission to the International Space Station (ISS). It will be the 23rd flight of Space Shuttle Endeavour, and is scheduled to launch on June 13, 2009 at 4:17AM PDT (11:17 UTC) and return on June 28, 2009 at 9:40PM PDT (June 29, 2009/04:40 UTC) The primary purpose of the STS-127 mission is to deliver and install the final two components of the Japanese Experiment Module: the Exposed Facility (JEM EF), and the Exposed Section of the Experiment Logistics Module (ELM-ES). Mission Statistics Mission name STS-127 Space shuttle Endeavour Spacecraft mass TBD Launch pad LC-39A Launch date June 13, 07:17 a.m. EDT (11:17 UTC) Landing June 29, 12:40 a.m. EDT (04:40 UTC) Mission duration 16 days Orbital altitude 356 km (221 nautical miles)[3] Orbital inclination 51.6 degrees Crew Commander: Mark L. Polansky (Third spaceflight) Pilot: Douglas G. Hurley (First spaceflight) Mission Specialist 1: Christopher J. Cassidy (First spaceflight, EVA#3) Mission Specialist 2: Julie Payette, CSA (Second spaceflight, Flight Engineer) Mission Specialist 3: Thomas H. Marshburn (First spaceflight, EVA#4) Mission Specialist 4: David Wolf (Fourth spaceflight, Lead Spacewalker EVA#1) Mission Specialist 5: Timothy Kopra (ISS Expedition 20, First spaceflight, EVA#2) Koichi Wakata (JAXA, ISS Expedition 20, Third spaceflight) The mission marks 158th American manned space flight 127th shuttle mission since STS-1 23rd flight of Endeavour 29th shuttle mission to the ISS 102nd post-Challenger mission 14th post-Columbia mission First time thirteen people will be on the ISS (most people ever on one spacecraft at one time) STS-127 will carry the 500th person to space STS-127 will mark the first time that two Canadian astronauts, Robert Thirsk and Julie Payette, are in space at the same time. This mission is the fourth to the last of the Space Shuttle missions before they are retired from service. News Articles http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/06/sts-127-ice-in-focus-as-rss-retracts-for-endeavours-launch/ http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=sts-127&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=r5cyStrHC6CJtgf-krHBCQ&sa=X&oi=news_group&resnum=6&ct=title http://www.space.com/spaceshuttle/index.html Twitter Page STS-127: http://twitter.com/STS127 NASA's: https://twitter.com/nasa Mark Polansky's: https://twitter.com/Astro_127 Websites: NASA's Space Shuttle page: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/main/index.html NASA' STS-127 page: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts127/index.html Watching the Launch http://www.fromil.com/tv/index.php?radio=5 http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html http://www.floridatoday.com/content/blogs/space/ Tracking the Shuttle and the ISS http://heavens-above.com/ http://www.n2yo.com/ http://spaceweather.com/flybys/ Videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA2341yukeI STS-127 Endeavour Rollover from the Orbiter Processing Facility (OPF) the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vfdvomWcfA Hoisting Endeavour next to the External Tank. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew2aNhXPqNU Endeavour's roll out to Launch Pad 39B. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHgBEUxaDZY STS-127 Post Flight Readiness Review Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ8C4PCxN9c STS 127 Pre Launch Briefing (11JUN09) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZyylxkQ-uc STS-127 Spacewalk Overview Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-gRAcepC4 STS-127 EVA#1 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FguRQd_aSM STS-127 EVA#2 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFOKv8Mhy70 STS-127 EVA#3 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m36Ajqk5y0o STS-127 EVA #4 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjHOzKjMw7w STS-127 EVA #5 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZUauMdwHlc NASA STS-127 EVAs Question and Answer Shuttle Commander Takes Video Questions In Space http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e16eXXAoisg From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Fri Jun 12 19:21:50 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:21:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Space Shuttle Launch STS-127 ****UPDATED**** Message-ID: <4A330D3E.8070606@earthlink.net> STS-127 (ISS assembly flight 2J/A) is the next space shuttle mission to the International Space Station (ISS). It will be the 23rd flight of Space Shuttle Endeavour, and is scheduled to launch on June 13, 2009 at 4:17AM PDT (11:17 UTC) and return on June 28, 2009 at 9:40PM PDT (June 29, 2009/04:40 UTC) The primary purpose of the STS-127 mission is to deliver and install the final two components of the Japanese Experiment Module: the Exposed Facility (JEM EF), and the Exposed Section of the Experiment Logistics Module (ELM-ES). Mission Statistics Mission name STS-127 Space shuttle Endeavour Spacecraft mass TBD Launch pad LC-39A Launch date June 13, 07:17 a.m. EDT (11:17 UTC) Landing June 29, 12:40 a.m. EDT (04:40 UTC) Mission duration 16 days Orbital altitude 356 km (221 nautical miles)[3] Orbital inclination 51.6 degrees Crew Commander: Mark L. Polansky (Third spaceflight) Pilot: Douglas G. Hurley (First spaceflight) Mission Specialist 1: Christopher J. Cassidy (First spaceflight, EVA#3) Mission Specialist 2: Julie Payette, CSA (Second spaceflight, Flight Engineer) Mission Specialist 3: Thomas H. Marshburn (First spaceflight, EVA#4) Mission Specialist 4: David Wolf (Fourth spaceflight, Lead Spacewalker EVA#1) Mission Specialist 5: Timothy Kopra (ISS Expedition 20, First spaceflight, EVA#2) Koichi Wakata (JAXA, ISS Expedition 20, Third spaceflight) The mission marks 158th American manned space flight 127th shuttle mission since STS-1 23rd flight of Endeavour 29th shuttle mission to the ISS 102nd post-Challenger mission 14th post-Columbia mission First time thirteen people will be on the ISS (most people ever on one spacecraft at one time) STS-127 will carry the 500th person to space STS-127 will mark the first time that two Canadian astronauts, Robert Thirsk and Julie Payette, are in space at the same time. This mission is the fourth to the last of the Space Shuttle missions before they are retired from service. News Articles http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/06/sts-127-ice-in-focus-as-rss-retracts-for-endeavours-launch/ http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=sts-127&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=r5cyStrHC6CJtgf-krHBCQ&sa=X&oi=news_group&resnum=6&ct=title http://www.space.com/spaceshuttle/index.html Twitter Page STS-127: http://twitter.com/STS127 NASA's: https://twitter.com/nasa Mark Polansky's: https://twitter.com/Astro_127 SpaceFlight Now: http://twitter.com/spaceflightnow/ Websites: NASA's Space Shuttle page: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/main/index.html NASA' STS-127 page: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts127/index.html SpaceFlight Now, Live Mission Updates: http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts127/status.html Watching the Launch http://www.fromil.com/tv/index.php?radio=5 http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html http://www.floridatoday.com/content/blogs/space/ Tracking the Shuttle and the ISS http://heavens-above.com/ http://www.n2yo.com/ http://spaceweather.com/flybys/ http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings/ Videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA2341yukeI STS-127 Endeavour Rollover from the Orbiter Processing Facility (OPF) the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vfdvomWcfA Hoisting Endeavour next to the External Tank. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew2aNhXPqNU Endeavour's roll out to Launch Pad 39B. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHgBEUxaDZY STS-127 Post Flight Readiness Review Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ8C4PCxN9c STS 127 Pre Launch Briefing (11JUN09) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZyylxkQ-uc STS-127 Spacewalk Overview Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-gRAcepC4 STS-127 EVA#1 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FguRQd_aSM STS-127 EVA#2 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFOKv8Mhy70 STS-127 EVA#3 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m36Ajqk5y0o STS-127 EVA #4 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjHOzKjMw7w STS-127 EVA #5 Spacewalk Briefing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZUauMdwHlc NASA STS-127 EVAs Question and Answer Shuttle Commander Takes Video Questions In Space http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e16eXXAoisg From fred at azinger.com Sun Jun 14 23:00:06 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:00:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted Message-ID: <000f01c9ed7e$88935930$99ba0b90$@com> I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas and moving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum, Chrome Oxide and 200um AP (only) as common ingredients with it roots..... I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um AP as I'm out of 400um... One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burn profiles.... The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...great for a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes a nice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, six fins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long... I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mm case that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo. This 9" grain is all that can fit. In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....I think I've succeeded with this motor. It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time of real substantive thrust! Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) See the video at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv See a picture of the grain at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg See the static photo at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!! FredA -------------- next part -------------- I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas and moving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum, Chrome Oxide and 200um AP ?(only) as common ingredients with it roots..... I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um AP as I'm out of 400um... ? One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burn profiles.... The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...great for a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes a nice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant ? Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, six fins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long... I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mm case that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo. This 9" grain is all that can fit. In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....I think I've succeeded with this motor. It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time of real substantive thrust! ? Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) ? ? See the video at: ? http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv ? See a picture of the grain at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg ? See the static photo at: ? http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg ? ? Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!! FredA ? ? ? From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Mon Jun 15 08:06:30 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:06:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA's LRO/LCROSS Launch To The Moon 17JUN09/1251PDT(1951 UTC) Message-ID: <4A366376.4090507@earthlink.net> The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) is a robotic spacecraft which the United States plans to place in orbit around the Moon. The launch date, originally planned for October 2008, is currently scheduled for June 17, 2009. LRO will be the first mission with a primary objective to implement the United States Vision for Space Exploration. To successfully attain the goals of "The Vision", including human exploration of the Moon, LRO will survey lunar resources and identify possible landing sites. The LRO Atlas V launch vehicle will also carry the Lunar CRater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS), which is designed to detect water liberated as the launch vehicle's spent upper stage strikes a lunar crater. Together, LCROSS and LRO form the vanguard of the NASA Lunar Precursor Robotic Program?s return to the Moon. Under development by NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, LRO is planned to be a large and sophisticated spacecraft in a polar orbit for a nominal mission of one Earth year. An optional extended phase of the mission (up to 5 years) could provide a communications relay for other future ground lunar missions, such as a moon lander or rover. News articles: http://www.globenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=165383 http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_12590357 View launch at: http://www.fromil.com/tv/index.php?radio=5 http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html NASA's LRO mission pages: http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/ http://lro.gsfc.nasa.gov/ http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/main/index.html NASA's LCROSS mission page: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LCROSS/main/index.html http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/ YouTube of the LRO/LCROSS mission: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TNHiMSbum4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHYNbBlaH1I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knsm7byc4CA LRO LCROSS SPACECRAFT MOVES TO LAUNCH PAD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg6jVHkf11U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI68sudEpnU&feature=related Timelapse build of the LRO satellite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-gckssGRng&feature=related From sb at berfield.com Mon Jun 15 14:50:50 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:50:50 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted Message-ID: That's really pretty cool. I can't pretend to understand why that shape core does what it does, but it clearly does it :) What's the average thrust you are getting? -----Original Message----- From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:00 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas andmoving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum,Chrome Oxide and 200um AP (only) as common ingredients with it roots.....I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um APas I'm out of 400um... One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burnprofiles....The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...greatfor a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes anice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, sixfins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long...I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mmcase that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo.This 9" grain is all that can fit.In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....Ithink I've succeeded with this motor.It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time ofreal substantive thrust! Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) See the video at:http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv See a picture of the grain at:http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg See the static photo at:http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!!FredA -------------- next part -------------- That's really pretty cool. I can't pretend to understand why that shape core does what it does, but it clearly does it :) What's the average thrust you are getting? ? -----Original Message----- From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:00 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas and moving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum, Chrome Oxide and 200um AP (only) as common ingredients with it roots..... I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um AP as I'm out of 400um... One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burn profiles.... The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...great for a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes a nice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, six fins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long... I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mm case that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo. This 9" grain is all that can fit. In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....I think I've succeeded with this motor. It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time of real substantive thrust! Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) See the video at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv See a picture of the grain at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg See the static photo at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!! FredA From patrick at urbancheese.com Mon Jun 15 15:22:48 2009 From: patrick at urbancheese.com (patrick (urban cheese records)) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:22:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The shape of the grain uses the dark side of the Force, that's why it does what it does. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=star+wars+imperial+logo (or http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=star+wars+imperial+logo if you are anti-Bing) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" To: "Fred Azinger" ; Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted That's really pretty cool. I can't pretend to understand why that shape core does what it does, but it clearly does it :) What's the average thrust you are getting? -----Original Message----- From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:00 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas andmoving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum,Chrome Oxide and 200um AP (only) as common ingredients with it roots.....I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um APas I'm out of 400um... One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burnprofiles....The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...greatfor a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes anice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, sixfins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long...I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mmcase that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo.This 9" grain is all that can fit.In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....Ithink I've succeeded with this motor.It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time ofreal substantive thrust! Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) See the video at:http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv See a picture of the grain at:http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg See the static photo at:http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!!FredA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From stevet19759 at comcast.net Mon Jun 15 23:08:46 2009 From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:08:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted In-Reply-To: <000f01c9ed7e$88935930$99ba0b90$@com> References: <000f01c9ed7e$88935930$99ba0b90$@com> Message-ID: <4A3736EE.1060800@comcast.net> I like the mechanism for measuring the burn time in tail wags. Cool use of bio-technology! -ST Fred Azinger wrote: > I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas and moving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum, Chrome Oxide and 200um AP (only) as common ingredients with it roots..... > I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um AP as I'm out of 400um... > > One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burn profiles.... > The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...great for a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes a nice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant > > Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, six fins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long... > I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mm case that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo. > This 9" grain is all that can fit. > In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....I think I've succeeded with this motor. > It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time of real substantive thrust! > > Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) > > > See the video at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv > > See a picture of the grain at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg > > See the static photo at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg > > > Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!! > FredA > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From billn at peak.org Mon Jun 15 23:39:59 2009 From: billn at peak.org (Bill Nelson) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA's LRO/LCROSS Launch To The Moon 17JUN09/1251PDT(1951 UTC) In-Reply-To: <4A366376.4090507@earthlink.net> References: <4A366376.4090507@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4946.208.51.52.95.1245134399.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> The launch has been delayed a day. The current schedule is for liftoff on June 18 at 2:12 p.m. PDT. Bill From fred at azinger.com Mon Jun 15 23:52:51 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:52:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted In-Reply-To: <4A3736EE.1060800@comcast.net> References: <000f01c9ed7e$88935930$99ba0b90$@com> <4A3736EE.1060800@comcast.net> Message-ID: <011401c9ee4f$11820310$34860930$@com> Yea, Gabe's dog has seen it all.... Looks are somewhat deceiving -- the tripod is low to the ground and zoomed in -- the dog isn't that close to the motor.....but he does seem to care less about the burn.... -----Original Message----- From: Steve Tarr [mailto:stevet19759 at comcast.net] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:09 PM To: Fred Azinger Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted I like the mechanism for measuring the burn time in tail wags. Cool use of bio-technology! -ST Fred Azinger wrote: > I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas and moving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum, Chrome Oxide and 200um AP (only) as common ingredients with it roots..... > I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um AP as I'm out of 400um... > > One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burn profiles.... > The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...great for a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes a nice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant > > Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, six fins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long... > I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mm case that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo. > This 9" grain is all that can fit. > In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....I think I've succeeded with this motor. > It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time of real substantive thrust! > > Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) > > > See the video at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv > > See a picture of the grain at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg > > See the static photo at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg > > > Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!! > FredA > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue Jun 16 07:24:17 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Message-ID: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -------------- next part -------------- Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! ? http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Tue Jun 16 05:03:34 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:03:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Endeavour and LRO/LCROSS In-Reply-To: <4946.208.51.52.95.1245134399.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> References: <4A366376.4090507@earthlink.net> <4946.208.51.52.95.1245134399.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> Message-ID: <4A378A16.3080004@earthlink.net> Space Shuttle Endeavour launch Wednesday, 17 June 2009 at 2:40AM PDT/0940 UTC. If Endeavour is unable to fly on Wednesday the launch will delayed until 11 July. LRO/LCROSS launch Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 2:12PM PDT/2112 UTC. It could get delayed as late as Friday the 19th. Robert Bill Nelson wrote: > The launch has been delayed a day. The current schedule is for liftoff > on June 18 at 2:12 p.m. PDT. > > Bill > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Tue Jun 16 05:48:07 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:48:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] "Moon" the movie Message-ID: <4A379487.7080702@earthlink.net> See the trailer here. http://www.sonyclassics.com/moon/ or here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIexG8179K8 Plays in Seattle starting 3 July 2009. Portland and Boise starting 10 July 2009. From appusher at q.com Tue Jun 16 07:55:05 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:55:05 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> Message-ID: Scott, That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > -------------- next part -------------- Scott, ? That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. ? I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Tue Jun 16 07:58:41 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:58:41 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted Message-ID: I used to test at a farm in Silverton where the farm dog would try to eat a firing motor, a habit he got into by attacking fireworks on the 4th. I've got a few videos where the dog comes running into the frame right as the motor burns out. Mike F. In a message dated 6/15/2009 11:53:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fred at azinger.com writes: Yea, Gabe's dog has seen it all.... Looks are somewhat deceiving -- the tripod is low to the ground and zoomed in -- the dog isn't that close to the motor.....but he does seem to care less about the burn.... -----Original Message----- From: Steve Tarr [mailto:stevet19759 at comcast.net] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:09 PM To: Fred Azinger Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted I like the mechanism for measuring the burn time in tail wags. Cool use of bio-technology! -ST Fred Azinger wrote: > I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas and moving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum, Chrome Oxide and 200um AP (only) as common ingredients with it roots..... > I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um AP as I'm out of 400um... > > One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burn profiles.... > The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...great for a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes a nice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant > > Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, six fins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long... > I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mm case that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo. > This 9" grain is all that can fit. > In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....I think I've succeeded with this motor. > It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time of real substantive thrust! > > Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) > > > See the video at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv > > See a picture of the grain at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg > > See the static photo at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg > > > Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!! > FredA > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- I used to test at a farm in Silverton where the farm dog would try to eat a firing motor, a habit he got into by attacking fireworks on the 4th.? I've got a few videos where the dog comes running into the frame right as the motor burns out. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 6/15/2009 11:53:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fred at azinger.com writes: Yea, Gabe's dog has seen it all.... Looks are somewhat deceiving -- the tripod is low to the ground and zoomed in -- the dog isn't that close to the motor.....but he does seem to care less about the burn.... -----Original Message----- From: Steve Tarr [mailto:stevet19759 at comcast.net] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:09 PM To: Fred Azinger Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted I like the mechanism for measuring the burn time in tail wags.? Cool use of bio-technology! ? -ST Fred Azinger wrote: > I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas and moving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum, Chrome Oxide and 200um AP? (only) as common ingredients with it roots..... > I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um AP as I'm out of 400um... >? > One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burn profiles.... > The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...great for a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes a nice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant >? > Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, six fins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long... > I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mm case that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo. > This 9" grain is all that can fit. > In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....I think I've succeeded with this motor. > It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time of real substantive thrust! >? > Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) >? >? > See the video at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv >? > See a picture of the grain at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg >? > See the static photo at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg >? >? > Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!! > FredA >? >? >? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >?? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue Jun 16 08:02:17 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:02:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> Message-ID: <54C8AF613FD54D3E947C785F227773C3@Mobile2> What's a regulated rocket motor now? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com _____ From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:55 AM To: Scott T. Bowers; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Scott, That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. Bill i'm EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > -------------- next part -------------- What's a regulated rocket motor now? ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:55 AM To: Scott T. Bowers; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Scott, ? That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. ? I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Tue Jun 16 08:06:51 2009 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:06:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Zeiger Elementary In-Reply-To: <100FCFC164504800A2909724F9365C6C@Mobile2> References: <100FCFC164504800A2909724F9365C6C@Mobile2> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E41@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Great pictures, Scott. Way to go. That's what it's all about. Thanks for helping the kids. We all win when one of us is willing to pay forward. Steve Bloom Seattle Area Rocket Guy -----Original Message----- From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:36 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Zeiger Elementary Helped out the kids at Zeiger Elementary with their rockets today, put a couple photos on the NW Rocketry site. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Tue Jun 16 08:16:44 2009 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:16:44 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <54C8AF613FD54D3E947C785F227773C3@Mobile2> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <54C8AF613FD54D3E947C785F227773C3@Mobile2> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E42@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> ten pounder black powder motor with yer basic nitro-glycerin igniter? -----Original Message----- From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:02 AM To: 'Bill Munds' Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. What's a regulated rocket motor now? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com _____ From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:55 AM To: Scott T. Bowers; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Scott, That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. Bill i'm EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Tue Jun 16 08:30:12 2009 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:30:12 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Message-ID: I wouldn't get too excited. Two thoughts come to mind: 1) There are some double base motors out there, just not in our clubs... but they are permissible, even acknowledged implicitly in the new FAR and 2) The wheels of government move veeeery slowly, good chance this letter predates ruling. -Robert In a message dated 6/16/2009 8:03:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scott at scottsrockets.com writes: What's a regulated rocket motor now? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com _____ From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:55 AM To: Scott T. Bowers; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Scott, That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. Bill i'm EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > What's a regulated rocket motor now? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:55 AM To: Scott T. Bowers; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Scott, That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- I wouldn't get too excited.? Two thoughts come to mind:? 1) There are some double base motors out there, just not in our clubs... but they are permissible, even acknowledged implicitly in the new FAR and 2) The wheels of government move veeeery slowly, good chance this letter predates ruling. -Robert ? In a message dated 6/16/2009 8:03:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scott at scottsrockets.com writes: What's a regulated rocket motor now? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com ? _____? From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:55 AM To: Scott T. Bowers; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Scott, That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. Bill i'm EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me? ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > What's a regulated rocket motor now? ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:55 AM To: Scott T. Bowers; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Scott, ? That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. ? I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From sb at berfield.com Tue Jun 16 08:34:53 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:34:53 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> Message-ID: Interesting, but I don't own any regulated rocket motors. What are those, anyway? Sent from my iPod On Jun 16, 2009, at 7:24 AM, "Scott T Bowers" wrote: > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/ > explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 16 16:34:56 2009 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:34:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> Message-ID: Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? Mark > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing? now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? ? Mark ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 Try Bing? now From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue Jun 16 17:04:30 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:04:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brouillet Elementary Message-ID: <46EB7B2B99C44B76931BFE9AA4F42ED2@Mobile2> I put some photos of the rocket launch at Brouillet Elementary School today on the NorthWest Rocketry site. Kent Newman and I spent a couple hours mostly taking pictures. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -------------- next part -------------- I put?some photos of the rocket launch at Brouillet Elementary School today on the NorthWest Rocketry site. Kent Newman and I spent a couple hours mostly taking pictures. ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Tue Jun 16 17:05:55 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:05:55 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> Message-ID: <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Ask Scott Fintel. Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you now have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? > > > > Mark > > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > > To: tra at tripoli.org > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > > > Scott T. Bowers > > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now > http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline > _try bing_1x1 From raystoner99 at comcast.net Tue Jun 16 18:01:38 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:01:38 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Message-ID: <003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> potassium perchlorate composite propellant That would be Potassium Nitrate... Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Ask Scott Fintel. Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you now have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? > > > > Mark > > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > > To: tra at tripoli.org > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > > > Scott T. Bowers > > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now > http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline > _try bing_1x1 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Tue Jun 16 19:12:36 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:12:36 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> Message-ID: <034a01c9eef1$1675d5c0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Yeah, what he said. ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net] > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM > To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; > tra at tripoli.org > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > potassium perchlorate composite propellant > > That would be Potassium Nitrate... > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM > To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Ask Scott Fintel. > > Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you now > have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- > bounces at rocketsnw.com] > > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM > > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > > > > > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > > > To: tra at tripoli.org > > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > > > > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > > > > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > > > > > Scott T. Bowers > > > www.scottsrockets.com > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now > > > http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline > > _try bing_1x1 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From appusher at q.com Tue Jun 16 19:22:59 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 02:22:59 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <54C8AF613FD54D3E947C785F227773C3@Mobile2> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <54C8AF613FD54D3E947C785F227773C3@Mobile2> Message-ID: Scott, They still haven't removed the regs on rocket motors from their website or the storage. They haven't made a public statement concern them either. I agree that the court ruling evacuated the ATF's determination of APCP. There are no regulated APCP motors by ATF. It's just that they need to remove the regs from the website. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From: scott at scottsrockets.com To: appusher at q.com CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:02:17 -0700 What's a regulated rocket motor now? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:55 AM To: Scott T. Bowers; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Scott, That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > -------------- next part -------------- Scott, They still haven't removed the regs on rocket motors from their website or the storage. They haven't made a public statement concern them either.? I agree that the court ruling evacuated the ATF's determination of APCP.? There are no regulated APCP motors by ATF.? It's just that they need to remove the regs from the website. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? From: scott at scottsrockets.com To: appusher at q.com CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:02:17 -0700 What's a regulated rocket motor now? ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:55 AM To: Scott T. Bowers; tra at tripoli.org Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Scott, ? That's interesting but it only covers combined storage of ignitors with rocket motors in regards to an attached garage variance. ? I didn't see that it covered that APCP was no long regulated. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: scott at scottsrockets.com > To: tra at tripoli.org > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 19:26:00 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:26:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> <034a01c9eef1$1675d5c0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Message-ID: <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> Dropped TRA Has anyone talked with their local AFT inspector? And had they heard of and willing to follow the ruling? Everywhere on AFT and the register websites, I have yet to find any acknowledgement that the rules changed. I'm only asking if anyone has talked to a local AFT person, and if they had a clue of the change. Plus the response you got. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell D. Mobley" To: "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" ; ; Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > Yeah, what he said. ;-) > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM >> To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; >> tra at tripoli.org >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >> >> potassium perchlorate composite propellant >> >> That would be Potassium Nitrate... >> >> Ray >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM >> To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >> >> Ask Scott Fintel. >> >> Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you now >> have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM >> > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >> > >> > >> > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? >> > >> > >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com >> > > To: tra at tripoli.org >> > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 >> > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >> > > >> > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! >> > > >> > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf >> > > >> > > Scott T. Bowers >> > > www.scottsrockets.com >> > > >> > > >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now >> > >> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline >> > _try bing_1x1 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From matjamison at aol.com Tue Jun 16 19:27:12 2009 From: matjamison at aol.com (matjamison at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:27:12 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Finding a field Message-ID: <8CBBD0A4166CD62-1648-10BE@FWM-D13.sysops.aol.com> Hello, I'm looking for a field to launch Estes and maybe Art Applewight 10" saucers for a church event. I live in the Port Orchard area and would like to launch at Jackson Park, (which I think belongs to the county). If it does belong to the county do I need to get permission, or can I just proceed with a launch? -------------- next part -------------- Hello, I'm looking for a field to launch Estes and maybe Art Applewight 10" saucers for a church event. I live in the Port Orchard area and would like to launch at Jackson Park, (which I think belongs to the county). If it does belong to the county do I need to get permission, or can I just proceed with a launch? Make your summer sizzle with http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000003 fast and easy recipes for the grill. From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue Jun 16 19:51:24 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:51:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> <034a01c9eef1$1675d5c0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: EVERY report I have heard on field enforcement they have acknowledged the lawsuit, no problems to date. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:26 PM To: Darrell D. Mobley; 'W. Raymond Stoner'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Dropped TRA Has anyone talked with their local AFT inspector? And had they heard of and willing to follow the ruling? Everywhere on AFT and the register websites, I have yet to find any acknowledgement that the rules changed. I'm only asking if anyone has talked to a local AFT person, and if they had a clue of the change. Plus the response you got. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell D. Mobley" To: "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" ; ; Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > Yeah, what he said. ;-) > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM >> To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; >> tra at tripoli.org >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >> >> potassium perchlorate composite propellant >> >> That would be Potassium Nitrate... >> >> Ray >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM >> To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >> >> Ask Scott Fintel. >> >> Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you now >> have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM >> > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >> > >> > >> > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? >> > >> > >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com >> > > To: tra at tripoli.org >> > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 >> > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >> > > >> > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! >> > > >> > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf >> > > >> > > Scott T. Bowers >> > > www.scottsrockets.com >> > > >> > > >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now >> > >> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline >> > _try bing_1x1 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Jun 16 19:57:59 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> Message-ID: What I find most interesting is that: a) They made no mention of the court ruling, and b) The newsletter publicizes they finally have moved to their "one license" policy. Both may merely indicate just how slowly bureaucracy can move. The "one license" idea has been around for quite a few years(IIRC it predates the lawsuit). But ATF may be choosing to not acknowledge the ruling, allowing hobbyists to proceed without permits but continuing to impose licensing on companies dealing with, by hobby standards, very large APCP rockets. It wouldn't be the first time a branch of the federal government has simply ignored the law or found creative interpretations of the law. And the "one license" policy has some significant implications in its own right which have been discussed in the past. For example, can someone who got a license for rockets(the still regulated kinds) go buy C-4 using the same license? And if so, how is that going to affect the degree of scrutiny applicants will face? +McG+ > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! > ? > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf > ? > Scott T. Bowers > http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 20:20:54 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:20:54 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> <034a01c9eef1$1675d5c0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: Thanks Scott. Very good to know. I recall my interview by the AFT person for my leup. He was clear that rocket folks were not on the list of those to monitor. He explained he's got companies missing cases of TNT and detentators (sp). He was nice and easy to talk with, so I felt better. Yet at that time, AP was under their reg. It may still be, but not as an explosive. Vacated? Does that mean it's now a PAD again, or simply not an explosive? Hmm. Questions for another day. Scott, join us at Brothers this weekend... It would be a pleasure to buy you a drink for all your help with TRA activities. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "'Robert Krausert'" ; "'Darrell D. Mobley'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:51 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > EVERY report I have heard on field enforcement they have acknowledged the > lawsuit, no problems to date. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:26 PM > To: Darrell D. Mobley; 'W. Raymond Stoner'; 'Mark Lyons'; > scott at scottsrockets.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Dropped TRA > > Has anyone talked with their local AFT inspector? And had they heard of > and > willing to follow the ruling? Everywhere on AFT and the register websites, > I > have yet to find any acknowledgement that the rules changed. > > I'm only asking if anyone has talked to a local AFT person, and if they > had > a clue of the change. Plus the response you got. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darrell D. Mobley" > To: "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" > ; ; > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:12 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > >> Yeah, what he said. ;-) >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM >>> To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; >>> tra at tripoli.org >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> >>> potassium perchlorate composite propellant >>> >>> That would be Potassium Nitrate... >>> >>> Ray >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM >>> To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> >>> Ask Scott Fintel. >>> >>> Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you now >>> have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >>> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons >>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM >>> > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> > >>> > >>> > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Mark >>> > >>> > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com >>> > > To: tra at tripoli.org >>> > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 >>> > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> > > >>> > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! >>> > > >>> > > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf >>> > > >>> > > Scott T. Bowers >>> > > www.scottsrockets.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > _________________________________________________________________ >>> > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now >>> > >>> > http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline >>> > _try bing_1x1 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue Jun 16 20:33:46 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:33:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> <034a01c9eef1$1675d5c0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <529703C05B7A4B56A494142F0FF210E2@Mobile2> LOL, I didn't do crap compared to most people. I just keep my ear to the ground. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:21 PM To: Scott T Bowers; 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'W. Raymond Stoner'; 'Mark Lyons' Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Thanks Scott. Very good to know. I recall my interview by the AFT person for my leup. He was clear that rocket folks were not on the list of those to monitor. He explained he's got companies missing cases of TNT and detentators (sp). He was nice and easy to talk with, so I felt better. Yet at that time, AP was under their reg. It may still be, but not as an explosive. Vacated? Does that mean it's now a PAD again, or simply not an explosive? Hmm. Questions for another day. Scott, join us at Brothers this weekend... It would be a pleasure to buy you a drink for all your help with TRA activities. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: "'Robert Krausert'" ; "'Darrell D. Mobley'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:51 PM Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > EVERY report I have heard on field enforcement they have acknowledged the > lawsuit, no problems to date. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:26 PM > To: Darrell D. Mobley; 'W. Raymond Stoner'; 'Mark Lyons'; > scott at scottsrockets.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > Dropped TRA > > Has anyone talked with their local AFT inspector? And had they heard of > and > willing to follow the ruling? Everywhere on AFT and the register websites, > I > have yet to find any acknowledgement that the rules changed. > > I'm only asking if anyone has talked to a local AFT person, and if they > had > a clue of the change. Plus the response you got. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darrell D. Mobley" > To: "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" > ; ; > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:12 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > >> Yeah, what he said. ;-) >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM >>> To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; >>> tra at tripoli.org >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> >>> potassium perchlorate composite propellant >>> >>> That would be Potassium Nitrate... >>> >>> Ray >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM >>> To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> >>> Ask Scott Fintel. >>> >>> Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you now >>> have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >>> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons >>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM >>> > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> > >>> > >>> > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Mark >>> > >>> > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com >>> > > To: tra at tripoli.org >>> > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 >>> > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> > > >>> > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! >>> > > >>> > > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf >>> > > >>> > > Scott T. Bowers >>> > > www.scottsrockets.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > _________________________________________________________________ >>> > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now >>> > >>> > http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline >>> > _try bing_1x1 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From jim at jmw29221.com Tue Jun 16 21:27:13 2009 From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:27:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> <034a01c9eef1$1675d5c0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: I had my renewal inspection in May, several days before the drop-dead date for the appeals process. I'd asked Agent Beth Zelinsky when she called (early May) to schedule the inspection about the issue and what guidance they'd received from Washington. During the inspection she said that she'd specifically asked for some guidance, and she told me that the ATF would just classify the rocket motors as something else and would continue to regulate them, regardless of the court case. After the expiration of the appeal date, I contacted her again. She did acknowledge that based on the court case, APCP (she kept calling ACPC, heh) was currently an unregulated item, but that headquarters would be planning to reclassify rocket motors in the future as something else and they would be again regulated at some point in the future. It became pretty apparent that she was just repeating what someone in DC had said, without a lot of comprehension on the issue as a whole. No idea what the "something else" would be. But at least the Seattle office is aware and in-line with the current status of APCP being an unregulated item. I received that newsletter article with my renewal paperwork back in late March, so it's something that pre-dates even the original court ruling. I'll bet that the newsletter was in layout and print before the appeal drop-dead date if not the original ruling. Regards Jim On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:26:00 -0700, "Robert Krausert" wrote: > Dropped TRA > > Has anyone talked with their local AFT inspector? And had they heard of and > > willing to follow the ruling? Everywhere on AFT and the register websites, > I > have yet to find any acknowledgement that the rules changed. > > I'm only asking if anyone has talked to a local AFT person, and if they had > > a clue of the change. Plus the response you got. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darrell D. Mobley" > To: "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" > ; ; > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:12 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > >> Yeah, what he said. ;-) >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM >>> To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; >>> tra at tripoli.org >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> >>> potassium perchlorate composite propellant >>> >>> That would be Potassium Nitrate... >>> >>> Ray >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM >>> To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> >>> Ask Scott Fintel. >>> >>> Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you now >>> have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >>> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons >>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM >>> > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> > >>> > >>> > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Mark >>> > >>> > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com >>> > > To: tra at tripoli.org >>> > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 >>> > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> > > >>> > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! >>> > > >>> > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf >>> > > >>> > > Scott T. Bowers >>> > > www.scottsrockets.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > _________________________________________________________________ >>> > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now >>> > >>> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline >>> > _try bing_1x1 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue Jun 16 21:49:10 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:49:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> <034a01c9eef1$1675d5c0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: That's interesting, I wonder what they could classify it as, it has been deemed not an explosive. Seems that would be a good way to anger the judge. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: jim at jmw29221.com [mailto:jim at jmw29221.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:27 PM To: Robert Krausert Cc: Darrell D. Mobley; W. Raymond Stoner; Mark Lyons; scott at scottsrockets.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Importance: Low I had my renewal inspection in May, several days before the drop-dead date for the appeals process. I'd asked Agent Beth Zelinsky when she called (early May) to schedule the inspection about the issue and what guidance they'd received from Washington. During the inspection she said that she'd specifically asked for some guidance, and she told me that the ATF would just classify the rocket motors as something else and would continue to regulate them, regardless of the court case. After the expiration of the appeal date, I contacted her again. She did acknowledge that based on the court case, APCP (she kept calling ACPC, heh) was currently an unregulated item, but that headquarters would be planning to reclassify rocket motors in the future as something else and they would be again regulated at some point in the future. It became pretty apparent that she was just repeating what someone in DC had said, without a lot of comprehension on the issue as a whole. No idea what the "something else" would be. But at least the Seattle office is aware and in-line with the current status of APCP being an unregulated item. I received that newsletter article with my renewal paperwork back in late March, so it's something that pre-dates even the original court ruling. I'll bet that the newsletter was in layout and print before the appeal drop-dead date if not the original ruling. Regards Jim On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:26:00 -0700, "Robert Krausert" wrote: > Dropped TRA > > Has anyone talked with their local AFT inspector? And had they heard > of and > > willing to follow the ruling? Everywhere on AFT and the register websites, > I > have yet to find any acknowledgement that the rules changed. > > I'm only asking if anyone has talked to a local AFT person, and if > they had > > a clue of the change. Plus the response you got. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darrell D. Mobley" > To: "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" > ; ; > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:12 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. > > >> Yeah, what he said. ;-) >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM >>> To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; >>> tra at tripoli.org >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> >>> potassium perchlorate composite propellant >>> >>> That would be Potassium Nitrate... >>> >>> Ray >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM >>> To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> >>> Ask Scott Fintel. >>> >>> Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you now >>> have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >>> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons >>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM >>> > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> > >>> > >>> > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Mark >>> > >>> > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com >>> > > To: tra at tripoli.org >>> > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 >>> > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> > > >>> > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! >>> > > >>> > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf >>> > > >>> > > Scott T. Bowers >>> > > www.scottsrockets.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > _________________________________________________________________ >>> > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now >>> > >>> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline >>> > _try bing_1x1 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Tue Jun 16 22:02:12 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (jhadv at pacifier.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF DECISION MAKING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11146.67.189.35.224.1245214932.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> Not to be an a$$ but I think I do have some idea how the system works at a certain level. In my personal opinion we have a risk that a rider will be put into a bill by an important, however straight forwardly influenced Senator. Look at it this way, when you are preparing to totally screw your constituents on something like health care, having already raped them on the TARP (bank bail-out) bill something as small as this would be lost in the noise and as long as you are pissing off constituents you take your chances, rely on the value of media advertising for reelection and do it all at once. You also secure an outside position as a "consultant" or "board member" at the seat of the corruption. This of course however, means the Senator(s)in question then need more money for the campaign which in turn reinforces the cycle of corruption as the Senator in question gets it from the people he did favors for. All very informally and legally of course. In my estimation unless we have the Brass saying give us a pass I don't see how they let this drop. In my estimation the overwhelming probability is that someone with an indirect interest will use this as currency with someone in the ATF and use their influence with the Senator for something in return. Perhaps, a favorable ruling for the industrial concern that lost the cases of dynamite and blasting caps. All of course in my humble opinion. From appusher at q.com Tue Jun 16 22:03:08 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:03:08 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Finding a field In-Reply-To: <8CBBD0A4166CD62-1648-10BE@FWM-D13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBBD0A4166CD62-1648-10BE@FWM-D13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Matt, Try the Kitsap County Parks: Parks and Recreation is located at: 1200 NW Fairgrounds Road Bremerton, WA 98311 (360) 337-5350 Main Office Jackson Park Last Updated by rtucker on Aug 6, 2008 County maintained park Location: Corner of Jackson and Lund Facility's: Ball fields, Soccer Fields, Restrooms, Bike trails. Comments: Also popular - Batting Cages, , large scale model rail road club, and paint ball arena. It will most likely have to be scheduled and there might be a reservation fee. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:27:12 -0400 > From: matjamison at aol.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Finding a field > > Hello, > I'm looking for a field to launch Estes and maybe Art Applewight 10" saucers for a church event. I live in the Port Orchard area and would like to launch at Jackson Park, (which I think belongs to the county). If it does belong to the county do I need to get permission, or can I just proceed with a launch? -------------- next part -------------- Matt, ? Try the Kitsap County Parks: ? Parks and Recreation is located at: 1200 NW Fairgrounds Road Bremerton, WA 98311 (360) 337-5350 Main Office Jackson Park Last Updated by http://maps.google.com/maps/user?uid=107156623676148166031&hl=en&gl=us rtucker on Aug 6, 2008 County maintained park Location: Corner of Jackson and Lund Facility's: Ball fields, Soccer Fields, Restrooms, Bike trails. Comments: Also popular - Batting Cages, , large scale model rail road club, and paint ball arena. ? ? ? It will most likely have to be scheduled and there might be a reservation fee. ? Bill ? http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:27:12 -0400 > From: matjamison at aol.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Finding a field > > Hello, > I'm looking for a field to launch Estes and maybe Art Applewight 10" saucers for a church event. I live in the Port Orchard area and would like to launch at Jackson Park, (which I think belongs to the county). If it does belong to the county do I need to get permission, or can I just proceed with a launch? From winningstad at comcast.net Tue Jun 16 22:36:34 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:36:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF DECISION MAKING In-Reply-To: <11146.67.189.35.224.1245214932.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> References: <11146.67.189.35.224.1245214932.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <1610549317B14C78AA6FCCF8FACE1DA3@downstair> Yup Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of jhadv at pacifier.com Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:02 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF DECISION MAKING Not to be an a$$ but I think I do have some idea how the system works at a certain level. In my personal opinion we have a risk that a rider will be put into a bill by an important, however straight forwardly influenced Senator. Look at it this way, when you are preparing to totally screw your constituents on something like health care, having already raped them on the TARP (bank bail-out) bill something as small as this would be lost in the noise and as long as you are pissing off constituents you take your chances, rely on the value of media advertising for reelection and do it all at once. You also secure an outside position as a "consultant" or "board member" at the seat of the corruption. This of course however, means the Senator(s)in question then need more money for the campaign which in turn reinforces the cycle of corruption as the Senator in question gets it from the people he did favors for. All very informally and legally of course. In my estimation unless we have the Brass saying give us a pass I don't see how they let this drop. In my estimation the overwhelming probability is that someone with an indirect interest will use this as currency with someone in the ATF and use their influence with the Senator for something in return. Perhaps, a favorable ruling for the industrial concern that lost the cases of dynamite and blasting caps. All of course in my humble opinion. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Jun 16 23:01:33 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> <034a01c9eef1$1675d5c0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <4034e6732b0277090bfeca23c22e39e0.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> And that is how it works in D.C. A never ending game. I know of at least one relatively minor wording change that ATF could get included as a rider that would totally change the whole picture. A single sentence... Now that ATF has been stymied on the regulation of a common propellant they will most likely aim new regulation of the hobby at *rockets*, not *propellants*. The FAA can implement regulations concerning the flying of rockets, but Congress at ATF's urging can define what a rocket is. And that will open up a whole barrel o' worms. Anyone who remembers my posts on ROL way back when will know what I'm talking about. +McG+ > I had my renewal inspection in May, several days before the drop-dead date > for the appeals process. I'd asked Agent Beth Zelinsky when she called > (early May) to schedule the inspection about the issue and what guidance > they'd received from Washington. During the inspection she said that > she'd > specifically asked for some guidance, and she told me that the ATF would > just classify the rocket motors as something else and would continue to > regulate them, regardless of the court case. > > After the expiration of the appeal date, I contacted her again. She did > acknowledge that based on the court case, APCP (she kept calling ACPC, > heh) > was currently an unregulated item, but that headquarters would be planning > to reclassify rocket motors in the future as something else and they would > be again regulated at some point in the future. > > It became pretty apparent that she was just repeating what someone in DC > had said, without a lot of comprehension on the issue as a whole. No idea > what the "something else" would be. But at least the Seattle office is > aware and in-line with the current status of APCP being an unregulated > item. > > I received that newsletter article with my renewal paperwork back in late > March, so it's something that pre-dates even the original court ruling. > I'll bet that the newsletter was in layout and print before the appeal > drop-dead date if not the original ruling. > > Regards > Jim > > On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:26:00 -0700, "Robert Krausert" > wrote: >> Dropped TRA >> >> Has anyone talked with their local AFT inspector? And had they heard of > and >> >> willing to follow the ruling? Everywhere on AFT and the register > websites, >> I >> have yet to find any acknowledgement that the rules changed. >> >> I'm only asking if anyone has talked to a local AFT person, and if they > had >> >> a clue of the change. Plus the response you got. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Darrell D. Mobley" >> To: "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" >> ; ; >> Cc: >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >> >> >>> Yeah, what he said. ;-) >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM >>>> To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; >>>> tra at tripoli.org >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>>> >>>> potassium perchlorate composite propellant >>>> >>>> That would be Potassium Nitrate... >>>> >>>> Ray >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM >>>> To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>>> >>>> Ask Scott Fintel. >>>> >>>> Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you > now >>>> have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. >>>> >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >>>> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>> > On Behalf Of Mark Lyons >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM >>>> > To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>>> > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Mark >>>> > >>>> > > From: scott at scottsrockets.com >>>> > > To: tra at tripoli.org >>>> > > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 >>>> > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>>> > > >>>> > > Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! >>>> > > >>>> > > > http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf >>>> > > >>>> > > Scott T. Bowers >>>> > > www.scottsrockets.com >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > _________________________________________________________________ >>>> > Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now >>>> > >>>> > http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline >>>> > _try bing_1x1 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue Jun 16 23:11:55 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:11:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <4034e6732b0277090bfeca23c22e39e0.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <216EBFD9DE5D4BFDBE895AC232815918@Mobile2> <030e01c9eedf$63cf0880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><003201c9eee7$2bd0f3a0$8372dae0$@net> <034a01c9eef1$1675d5c0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <28C85F044A6248A1A5979C53A8FCE8BA@LaptopKrausert> <4034e6732b0277090bfeca23c22e39e0.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <4A38892B.7090604@hawkfeather.com> OTOH they got slapped pretty hard for arbitrary rule making. If anything is going to happen I expect to see it via Congressional action, not via an ATF process. Andrew. kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: > And that is how it works in D.C. A never ending game. > > I know of at least one relatively minor wording change that ATF could get > included as a rider that would totally change the whole picture. A single > sentence... > > Now that ATF has been stymied on the regulation of a common propellant > they will most likely aim new regulation of the hobby at *rockets*, not > *propellants*. The FAA can implement regulations concerning the flying of > rockets, but Congress at ATF's urging can define what a rocket is. And > that will open up a whole barrel o' worms. > > Anyone who remembers my posts on ROL way back when will know what I'm > talking about. > +McG+ > > >> I had my renewal inspection in May, several days before the drop-dead date >> for the appeals process. I'd asked Agent Beth Zelinsky when she called >> (early May) to schedule the inspection about the issue and what guidance >> they'd received from Washington. During the inspection she said that >> she'd >> specifically asked for some guidance, and she told me that the ATF would >> just classify the rocket motors as something else and would continue to >> regulate them, regardless of the court case. >> >> After the expiration of the appeal date, I contacted her again. She did >> acknowledge that based on the court case, APCP (she kept calling ACPC, >> heh) >> was currently an unregulated item, but that headquarters would be planning >> to reclassify rocket motors in the future as something else and they would >> be again regulated at some point in the future. >> >> It became pretty apparent that she was just repeating what someone in DC >> had said, without a lot of comprehension on the issue as a whole. No idea >> what the "something else" would be. But at least the Seattle office is >> aware and in-line with the current status of APCP being an unregulated >> item. >> >> I received that newsletter article with my renewal paperwork back in late >> March, so it's something that pre-dates even the original court ruling. >> I'll bet that the newsletter was in layout and print before the appeal >> drop-dead date if not the original ruling. >> >> Regards >> Jim >> >> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:26:00 -0700, "Robert Krausert" >> wrote: >>> Dropped TRA >>> >>> Has anyone talked with their local AFT inspector? And had they heard of >> and >>> willing to follow the ruling? Everywhere on AFT and the register >> websites, >>> I >>> have yet to find any acknowledgement that the rules changed. >>> >>> I'm only asking if anyone has talked to a local AFT person, and if they >> had >>> a clue of the change. Plus the response you got. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Darrell D. Mobley" >>> To: "'W. Raymond Stoner'" ; "'Mark Lyons'" >>> ; ; >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:12 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>> >>> >>>> Yeah, what he said. ;-) >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: W. Raymond Stoner [mailto:raystoner99 at comcast.net] >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM >>>>> To: 'Darrell D. Mobley'; 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; >>>>> tra at tripoli.org >>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>>>> >>>>> potassium perchlorate composite propellant >>>>> >>>>> That would be Potassium Nitrate... >>>>> >>>>> Ray >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>>>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>> On Behalf Of Darrell D. Mobley >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:06 PM >>>>> To: 'Mark Lyons'; scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>>>> >>>>> Ask Scott Fintel. >>>>> >>>>> Make a potassium perchlorate composite propellant motor. There, you >> now >>>>> have a regulated rocket motor. Only APCP was vacated. >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- >>>>> bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Mark Lyons >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:35 PM >>>>>> To: scott at scottsrockets.com; tra at tripoli.org >>>>>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Uhhh......what "regulated rocket motors" ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: scott at scottsrockets.com >>>>>>> To: tra at tripoli.org >>>>>>> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:24:17 -0700 >>>>>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>>>> Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Look at page 8. Ken Good, you see this?! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> http://www.atf.gov/explarson/newsletter/explosivesindustryjune2009.pdf >>>>>>> Scott T. Bowers >>>>>>> www.scottsrockets.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try BingT now >>>>>> >> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline >>>>>> _try bing_1x1 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rockets mailing list >>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From brodwcjj at integrity.com Wed Jun 17 12:23:25 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:23:25 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090617142325.13165zyt13gx65k4@wm.integrity.com> Classify it as ? Let's see:? looking at the acronym-BATFE: It's no longer an "Explosive", It's not an Alchohol, It's not a Tobacco, Maybe they will classify it as a Firearm ? TongueInCheek, Dustin From: "Scott T Bowers" Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com That's interesting, I wonder what they could classify it as, it has been deemed not an explosive. Seems that would be a good way to anger the judge. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com From terry at mooreread.com Wed Jun 17 12:58:47 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:58:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <20090617142325.13165zyt13gx65k4@wm.integrity.com> References: <20090617142325.13165zyt13gx65k4@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <375B7CA7-6936-4CA9-A921-E25F551BFD72@mooreread.com> They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. On Jun 17, 2009, at 12:23 PM, brodwcjj at integrity.com wrote: > > TongueInCheek, -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S. NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or privileged material, and is intended solely for use by the above referenced recipient. Any review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri- bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited. If you are not the recipient, and believe that you have received this in error, please notify the sender and delete the copy you received. Thank You! From brodwcjj at integrity.com Wed Jun 17 15:03:17 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:03:17 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] It's [was] APCP Freedom Sale Days at Tammie's Hobbies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090617170317.10755wb1v0xkcwow@wm.integrity.com> I'm guessing people took advantage of this sale because by the time I went in last week for L1 reloads there was just a handful of H250s. I was looking for some slower H's Looked like there was reasonable variety left for L2, but my budget kept me from looking in there and tempting myself. Dustin BAR-NAR-L2 > Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:22:46 -0700 > From: > Subject: [RocketsNW] It's APCP Freedom Sale Days at Tammie's Hobbies > To: > > > Duane asked me to pass this information along. > > All 29mm and 38mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 20% off MSRP > > All 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - > 25% off MSRP > > No limits, No LEUP needed. Best of all, the pricing is available on > both in stock and ordered items. > Option for delivery to OROC launches is available. > > Sale ends June 15, 2009. > > Tammie's Hobbies > 12024 SW Canyon Rd > Beaverton,Oregon 97005 > Phone # (503)644-4535 > 10am to 8pm on Weekdays. > 10am to 5pm on Saturday. > 12pm to 5pm on Sunday. > www.tammieshobbies.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- > Duane asked me to pass this information along. > ? > All 29mm and 38mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 20% off MSRP > ? > All 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - > 25% off MSRP > ? > No limits, No LEUP needed. Best of all, the pricing is available on > both in stock and ordered items. > Option for delivery to OROC launches is available. > ? > Sale ends June 15, 2009. > ? > Tammie's Hobbies > 12024 SW Canyon Rd > Beaverton,Oregon 97005 > Phone # (503)644-4535 > 10am to 8pm on Weekdays. > 10am to 5pm on Saturday. > 12pm to 5pm on Sunday. > http://www.tammieshobbies.com/ > www.tammieshobbies.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:53:03 -0700 > From: "Walsh, Tom" > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > To: Eugene Samsonov , Bill Munds , > John Hawkins , "rockets at rocketsnw.com" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids > are hankering for some rocket flying... > -Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM > To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > Yeah!!! I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did > not renew it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Munds" > To: "John Hawkins" ; ; > > Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > > > Eugene and all, > > > > Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along with motor > starters.. > > > > I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts > after I talk with him. > > > > WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. > > > > Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal for > pre-orders at an additional 3%. > > Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work the > launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. > > Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and > get a gift rather than > > Stubbin and getting nothing. > > > > BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. Snell > blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, > > and more good stuff. > > > > Burn 'em if you got 'em, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com >> To: eas0171 at gmail.com >> CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 >> >> good question >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >> sell >> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >> > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >> > not >> > an >> > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> > destroying >> > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license >> > with >> > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >> > >> > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> > >> > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> > motors >> > removed. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Scott T Bowers" >> > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> > >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> > onBATFECase -It'sOver >> > >> > >> >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received >> >>confirmation >> >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >> >> >> >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >> >> To: W. Raymond Stoner >> >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> >> BATFECase >> >> -It'sOver >> >> >> >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >> >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >> >> >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >> >> >> >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE". >> >>> >> >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >> >>> lost? >> >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the >> >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the >> >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait >> >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, >> >>> the law changed. >> >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could >> >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during >> >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >> >>> >> >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for >> >>> it to take effect? What gives? >> >>> >> >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >> >>> playing it safe? >> >>> >> >>> Ray >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >> >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >> >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Scott, >> >>> >> >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >> >>> >> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >> >>> 503-781-3529 >> >>> >> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >> >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Scott T. Bowers >> >>> www.scottsrockets.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >> >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case >> >>> - It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> ] On >> >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >> >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >> >>> >> >>> May 18, 2009 >> >>> >> >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >> >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >> >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP >> >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired >> >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment >> >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that >> >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by >> >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >> >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >> >>> >> >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their >> >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >> >>> possess) >> >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >> >>> While APCP >> >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >> >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >> >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >> >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate >> >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >> >>> certification. >> >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage >> >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with >> >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >> >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to >> >>> purchase. >> >>> Ensuring >> >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >> >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >> >>> outside agencies. >> >>> >> >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should >> >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves >> >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >> >>> District Court. >> >>> >> >>> Trip Barber >> >>> NAR President >> >>> >> >>> Ken Good >> >>> TRA President >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> __._,_.___ >> >>> Messages in this topic >> >>> > >>> 1NGV1Z >> >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >> >>> DMTA1N >> >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >> >>> Reply >> >>> (via web post) >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >> >>> c2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >> >>> Start a new topic >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >> >>> bnRwYw >> >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Messages> >>> MTJkNH >> >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >> >>> A2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Files> >>> JocmZy >> >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsD >> >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >> >>> Photos> >>> dHBpam >> >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >> >>> cgRzbG >> >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Members> >>> JkaDI4 >> >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRz >> >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> MARKETPLACE >> >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >> >>> Time!.> >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >> >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ >> >>> *http:/ >> >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >> >>> tweek& >> >>> SID=GetPaid> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> I make $75/Hour. While I >> >>> Sleep!.> >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >> >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >> >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >> >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >> >>> stweek >> >>> &SID=75sleep> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >> >>> families, for the world and for each >> >>> other> >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >> >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >> >>> *http:// >> >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]> >>> //grou >> >>> ps >> >>> .yahoo >> >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >> >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >> >>> Change settings via the >> >>> Web> >>> jJxBF9 >> >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >> >>> GsDc3R >> >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >> >>> via >> >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >> >>> Digest> >>> very >> >>> :% >> >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >> >>> Traditional> >>> ange >> >>> %2 >> >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >> >>> HN0aW1 >> >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >> >>> | Unsubscribe >> >>> >> >>> Recent Activity >> >>> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >> >>> ARzdGl >> >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Yahoo! News >> >>> >> >>> Get it all >> >>> here> >>> 867457 >> >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >> >>> J=124269 >> >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: >> >>> //news >> >>> .yahoo.com/> >> >>> >> >>> Breaking news to >> >>> >> >>> entertainment news >> >>> >> >>> Drive Traffic >> >>> >> >>> Sponsored >> >>> Search> >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >> >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt >> >>> p://us >> >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p >> >>> hp >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> can help increase >> >>> >> >>> your site traffic. >> >>> >> >>> Yahoo! Groups >> >>> >> >>> Mom >> >>> Power> >>> .86745 >> >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >> >>> J=12426 >> >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http >> >>> ://gro >> >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >>> >> >>> Find wholesome recipes >> >>> >> >>> and more. Go Moms Go! >> >>> >> >>> . >> >>> >> >>> __,_._,___ >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:07:39 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > To: , > Message-ID: > <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC592 at us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Tom, > > If your NAR membership lapse is less that 12 months, you HPR > certification will be reinstated upon renewal. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Walsh, Tom > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:53 PM > To: Eugene Samsonov; Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids > are hankering for some rocket flying... > -Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM > To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > Yeah!!! I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did > not renew it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Munds" > To: "John Hawkins" ; ; > > Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > > > Eugene and all, > > > > Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. Along with motor > starters.. > > > > I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts > after I talk with him. > > > > WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. > > > > Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. PayPal for > pre-orders at an additional 3%. > > Club members receive a 5% discount. Fliers or attendees that work the > launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. > > Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and > get a gift rather than > > Stubbin and getting nothing. > > > > BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. Snell > blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, > > and more good stuff. > > > > Burn 'em if you got 'em, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com >> To: eas0171 at gmail.com >> CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 >> >> good question >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >> sell >> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >> > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >> > not >> > an >> > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> > destroying >> > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license >> > with >> > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >> > >> > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> > >> > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> > motors >> > removed. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Scott T Bowers" >> > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> > >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> > onBATFECase -It'sOver >> > >> > >> >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received >> >>confirmation >> >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >> >> >> >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >> >> To: W. Raymond Stoner >> >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> >> BATFECase >> >> -It'sOver >> >> >> >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >> >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >> >> >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >> >> >> >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE". >> >>> >> >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >> >>> lost? >> >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the >> >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the >> >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait >> >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, >> >>> the law changed. >> >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could >> >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during >> >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >> >>> >> >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for >> >>> it to take effect? What gives? >> >>> >> >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >> >>> playing it safe? >> >>> >> >>> Ray >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >> >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >> >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Scott, >> >>> >> >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >> >>> >> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >> >>> 503-781-3529 >> >>> >> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >> >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Scott T. Bowers >> >>> www.scottsrockets.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >> >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case >> >>> - It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> ] On >> >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >> >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >> >>> >> >>> May 18, 2009 >> >>> >> >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >> >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >> >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP >> >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired >> >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment >> >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that >> >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by >> >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >> >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >> >>> >> >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their >> >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >> >>> possess) >> >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >> >>> While APCP >> >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >> >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >> >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >> >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate >> >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >> >>> certification. >> >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage >> >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with >> >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >> >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to >> >>> purchase. >> >>> Ensuring >> >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >> >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >> >>> outside agencies. >> >>> >> >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should >> >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves >> >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >> >>> District Court. >> >>> >> >>> Trip Barber >> >>> NAR President >> >>> >> >>> Ken Good >> >>> TRA President >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> __._,_.___ >> >>> Messages in this topic >> >>> > >>> 1NGV1Z >> >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >> >>> DMTA1N >> >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >> >>> Reply >> >>> (via web post) >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >> >>> c2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >> >>> Start a new topic >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >> >>> bnRwYw >> >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Messages> >>> MTJkNH >> >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >> >>> A2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Files> >>> JocmZy >> >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsD >> >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >> >>> Photos> >>> dHBpam >> >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >> >>> cgRzbG >> >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Members> >>> JkaDI4 >> >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRz >> >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> MARKETPLACE >> >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >> >>> Time!.> >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >> >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ >> >>> *http:/ >> >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >> >>> tweek& >> >>> SID=GetPaid> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> I make $75/Hour. While I >> >>> Sleep!.> >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >> >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >> >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >> >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >> >>> stweek >> >>> &SID=75sleep> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >> >>> families, for the world and for each >> >>> other> >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >> >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >> >>> *http:// >> >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]> >>> //grou >> >>> ps >> >>> .yahoo >> >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >> >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >> >>> Change settings via the >> >>> Web> >>> jJxBF9 >> >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >> >>> GsDc3R >> >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >> >>> via >> >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >> >>> Digest> >>> very >> >>> :% >> >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >> >>> Traditional> >>> ange >> >>> %2 >> >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >> >>> HN0aW1 >> >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >> >>> | Unsubscribe >> >>> >> >>> Recent Activity >> >>> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >> >>> ARzdGl >> >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Yahoo! 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Go Moms Go! >> >>> >> >>> . >> >>> >> >>> __,_._,___ >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 16, Issue 100 > **************************************** > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 15:14:42 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:14:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. References: <20090617142325.13165zyt13gx65k4@wm.integrity.com> <375B7CA7-6936-4CA9-A921-E25F551BFD72@mooreread.com> Message-ID: <923DF3D21EA549C48BBD0979581868ED@LaptopKrausert> My own opinion AFT will stand down until 2011. Right now the new administration has nothing up their heads (yes, keeping it clean) regarding new regulations on a consumer market driven hobby. 5-minutes with the Rocket Boys or NAR or TRA would demonstrate the self-policing and safety controls of this hobby. Regulating ignintors will not happen entirely. One amazing law of consumer products is the ability to use them. If today you can purchase a APCP motor, but all types of ignitors are regulated... The law has just been broken. The purchaser of the consumer motor must be capable to use it. If they must carry a permit to hold the ignitor to use it, then the motor cannot be a consumer product. A consumer product must be usable and have a purpose; example the customer experience must be at least the ability to use it, as defined in the consumer purchase. Now of course it's not required to offer a place to use it. But in theory, it must be usable. Modifications void this acknowledgement. If a rocket motor can be sold as a consumer product, there must be a mechanism to use it in the consumer market. I see no reason for the Administration to take any action until 2011. Rider to any current bill? I cannot see it at this time. In 2011 during the campaigns, I can see something slipping in and so low on anyones radar screen to get reaction. Before the hype of the next election cycle, we all need to keep our representatives aware of us and what we offer the community. (vehicles to get there, camping supplies, fuel, service stations, food, hotels, motor and hobby vendors, and so many more things. We bring revenue to many places and means.) I end by saying this... If you're not telling your representative and senator to support this hobby, then you should not complain if hobby gets challenged by the house or senate.. I know some things are corrupt. And yes some are, and that's sad. I still believe that our reps will listen. So in late 2010 and 2011, make sure they know you, your hobby, and your expectation for them to support us. If you don't, then don't complain if the house and senate take action against us. Not trying to urk people. Just like voting... If you don't try or don't voice in, then you shouldn't complain. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Moore-Read" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. > They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, > however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research > purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. > > On Jun 17, 2009, at 12:23 PM, brodwcjj at integrity.com wrote: > >> >> TongueInCheek, > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses > and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S. > > NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or > privileged material, and is intended solely > for use by the above referenced recipient. Any > review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri- > bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the recipient, and believe that > you have received this in error, please notify > the sender and delete the copy you received. > > Thank You! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From clappfamily at comcast.net Wed Jun 17 15:29:56 2009 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:29:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] It's [was] APCP Freedom Sale Days at Tammie's Hobbies In-Reply-To: <20090617170317.10755wb1v0xkcwow@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <598914459.5535661245277796391.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> When I was in yesterday I think they had some 29mm and 54mm motors.?? I purchased the last 38mm.?? Many many more are on the way.?? :-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: brodwcjj at integrity.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:03:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's [was] APCP Freedom Sale Days at Tammie's????????????????Hobbies I'm guessing people took advantage of this sale ??because by the time I ?? went in last week ??for L1 reloads there was just a handful of H250s. I was looking for some slower H's Looked like there was reasonable variety left for L2, ??but my budget ?? kept me from looking in there and tempting myself. Dustin BAR-NAR-L2 > Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:22:46 -0700 > From: > Subject: [RocketsNW] It's APCP Freedom Sale Days at Tammie's Hobbies > To: > > > Duane asked me to pass this information along. > > All 29mm and 38mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 20% off MSRP > > All 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - ?? > 25% off MSRP > > No limits, No LEUP needed. Best of all, the pricing is available on ?? > both in stock and ordered items. > Option for delivery to OROC launches is available. > > Sale ends June 15, 2009. > > Tammie's Hobbies > 12024 SW Canyon Rd > Beaverton,Oregon 97005 > Phone # (503)644-4535 > 10am to 8pm on Weekdays. > 10am to 5pm on Saturday. > 12pm to 5pm on Sunday. > www.tammieshobbies.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- > Duane asked me to pass this information along. > ?? > All 29mm and 38mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 20% off MSRP > ?? > All 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - ?? > 25% off MSRP > ?? > No limits, No LEUP needed. Best of all, the pricing is available on ?? > both in stock and ordered items. > Option for delivery to OROC launches is available. > ?? > Sale ends June 15, 2009. > ?? > Tammie's Hobbies > 12024 SW Canyon Rd > Beaverton,Oregon 97005 > Phone # (503)644-4535 > 10am to 8pm on Weekdays. > 10am to 5pm on Saturday. > 12pm to 5pm on Sunday. > http://www.tammieshobbies.com/ > www.tammieshobbies.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:53:03 -0700 > From: "Walsh, Tom" > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW:????????????????[NAR_Sections]????????????????Joint > ????????????????StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > To: Eugene Samsonov , Bill Munds , > ????????????????John????????????????Hawkins , "rockets at rocketsnw.com" > ???????????????? > Message-ID: > ???????????????? > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids ?? > are hankering for some rocket flying... > -Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ?? > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM > To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint ?? > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > Yeah!!! ?? I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did > not renew it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Munds" > To: "John Hawkins" ; ; > > Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > > > Eugene and all, > > > > Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. ??Along with motor > starters.. > > > > I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts > after I talk with him. > > > > WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. > > > > Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. ??PayPal for > pre-orders at an additional 3%. > > Club members receive a 5% discount. ??Fliers or attendees that work the > launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. > > Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and > get a gift rather than > > Stubbin and getting nothing. > > > > BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. ??BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. ??Snell > blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, > > and more good stuff. > > > > Burn 'em if you got 'em, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ??EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com >> To: eas0171 at gmail.com >> CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 >> >> good question >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >> sell >> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >> > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >> > not >> > an >> > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> > destroying >> > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license >> > with >> > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >> > >> > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> > >> > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> > motors >> > removed. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Scott T Bowers" >> > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> > >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> > onBATFECase -It'sOver >> > >> > >> >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received >> >>confirmation >> >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >> >> >> >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >> >> To: W. Raymond Stoner >> >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> >> BATFECase >> >> -It'sOver >> >> >> >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >> >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >> >> >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >> >> >> >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE". >> >>> >> >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >> >>> lost? >> >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the >> >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the >> >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait >> >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, >> >>> the law changed. >> >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could >> >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during >> >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >> >>> >> >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for >> >>> it to take effect? What gives? >> >>> >> >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >> >>> playing it safe? >> >>> >> >>> Ray >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >> >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >> >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Scott, >> >>> >> >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >> >>> >> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >> >>> 503-781-3529 >> >>> >> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >> >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Scott T. Bowers >> >>> www.scottsrockets.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >> >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case >> >>> - It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> ] On >> >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >> >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >> >>> >> >>> May 18, 2009 >> >>> >> >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >> >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >> >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP >> >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired >> >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment >> >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that >> >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by >> >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >> >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >> >>> >> >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their >> >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >> >>> possess) >> >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >> >>> While APCP >> >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >> >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >> >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >> >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate >> >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >> >>> certification. >> >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage >> >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with >> >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >> >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to >> >>> purchase. >> >>> Ensuring >> >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >> >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >> >>> outside agencies. >> >>> >> >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should >> >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves >> >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >> >>> District Court. >> >>> >> >>> Trip Barber >> >>> NAR President >> >>> >> >>> Ken Good >> >>> TRA President >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> __._,_.___ >> >>> Messages in this topic >> >>> > >>> 1NGV1Z >> >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >> >>> DMTA1N >> >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >> >>> Reply >> >>> (via web post) >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >> >>> c2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >> >>> Start a new topic >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >> >>> bnRwYw >> >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Messages> >>> MTJkNH >> >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >> >>> A2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Files> >>> JocmZy >> >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsD >> >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >> >>> Photos> >>> dHBpam >> >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >> >>> cgRzbG >> >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Members> >>> JkaDI4 >> >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRz >> >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> MARKETPLACE >> >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >> >>> Time!.> >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >> >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ >> >>> *http:/ >> >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >> >>> tweek& >> >>> SID=GetPaid> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> I make $75/Hour. While I >> >>> Sleep!.> >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >> >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >> >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >> >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >> >>> stweek >> >>> &SID=75sleep> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >> >>> families, for the world and for each >> >>> other> >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >> >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >> >>> *http:// >> >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]> >>> //grou >> >>> ps >> >>> .yahoo >> >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >> >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >> >>> Change settings via the >> >>> Web> >>> jJxBF9 >> >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >> >>> GsDc3R >> >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >> >>> via >> >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >> >>> Digest> >>> very >> >>> :% >> >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >> >>> Traditional> >>> ange >> >>> %2 >> >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >> >>> HN0aW1 >> >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >> >>> | Unsubscribe >> >>> >> >>> Recent Activity >> >>> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >> >>> ARzdGl >> >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Yahoo! News >> >>> >> >>> Get it all >> >>> here> >>> 867457 >> >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >> >>> J=124269 >> >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: >> >>> //news >> >>> .yahoo.com/> >> >>> >> >>> Breaking news to >> >>> >> >>> entertainment news >> >>> >> >>> Drive Traffic >> >>> >> >>> Sponsored >> >>> Search> >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >> >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt >> >>> p://us >> >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p >> >>> hp >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> can help increase >> >>> >> >>> your site traffic. >> >>> >> >>> Yahoo! Groups >> >>> >> >>> Mom >> >>> Power> >>> .86745 >> >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >> >>> J=12426 >> >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http >> >>> ://gro >> >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >>> >> >>> Find wholesome recipes >> >>> >> >>> and more. Go Moms Go! >> >>> >> >>> . >> >>> >> >>> __,_._,___ >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:07:39 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections] Joint > ????????????????StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > To: , > Message-ID: > ????????????????<1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC592 at us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Tom, > > ?? ?? ?? ?? If your NAR membership lapse is less that 12 months, you HPR ?? > certification will be reinstated upon renewal. > > ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ?? > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Walsh, Tom > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:53 PM > To: Eugene Samsonov; Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint ?? > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids ?? > are hankering for some rocket flying... > -Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ?? > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM > To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint ?? > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > Yeah!!! ?? I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did > not renew it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Munds" > To: "John Hawkins" ; ; > > Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > > > Eugene and all, > > > > Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. ??Along with motor > starters.. > > > > I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts > after I talk with him. > > > > WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. > > > > Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. ??PayPal for > pre-orders at an additional 3%. > > Club members receive a 5% discount. ??Fliers or attendees that work the > launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. > > Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and > get a gift rather than > > Stubbin and getting nothing. > > > > BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. ??BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. ??Snell > blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, > > and more good stuff. > > > > Burn 'em if you got 'em, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ??EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com >> To: eas0171 at gmail.com >> CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 >> >> good question >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >> sell >> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >> > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >> > not >> > an >> > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> > destroying >> > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license >> > with >> > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >> > >> > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> > >> > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> > motors >> > removed. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Scott T Bowers" >> > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> > >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> > onBATFECase -It'sOver >> > >> > >> >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received >> >>confirmation >> >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >> >> >> >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >> >> To: W. Raymond Stoner >> >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> >> BATFECase >> >> -It'sOver >> >> >> >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >> >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >> >> >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >> >> >> >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE". >> >>> >> >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >> >>> lost? >> >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the >> >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the >> >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait >> >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, >> >>> the law changed. >> >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could >> >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during >> >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >> >>> >> >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for >> >>> it to take effect? What gives? >> >>> >> >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >> >>> playing it safe? >> >>> >> >>> Ray >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >> >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >> >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Scott, >> >>> >> >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >> >>> >> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >> >>> 503-781-3529 >> >>> >> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >> >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Scott T. Bowers >> >>> www.scottsrockets.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >> >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case >> >>> - It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> ] On >> >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >> >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >> >>> >> >>> May 18, 2009 >> >>> >> >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >> >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >> >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP >> >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired >> >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment >> >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that >> >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by >> >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >> >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >> >>> >> >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their >> >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >> >>> possess) >> >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >> >>> While APCP >> >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >> >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >> >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >> >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate >> >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >> >>> certification. >> >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage >> >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with >> >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >> >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to >> >>> purchase. >> >>> Ensuring >> >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >> >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >> >>> outside agencies. >> >>> >> >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should >> >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves >> >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >> >>> District Court. >> >>> >> >>> Trip Barber >> >>> NAR President >> >>> >> >>> Ken Good >> >>> TRA President >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> __._,_.___ >> >>> Messages in this topic >> >>> > >>> 1NGV1Z >> >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >> >>> DMTA1N >> >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >> >>> Reply >> >>> (via web post) >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >> >>> c2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >> >>> Start a new topic >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >> >>> bnRwYw >> >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Messages> >>> MTJkNH >> >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >> >>> A2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Files> >>> JocmZy >> >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsD >> >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >> >>> Photos> >>> dHBpam >> >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >> >>> cgRzbG >> >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Members> >>> JkaDI4 >> >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRz >> >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> MARKETPLACE >> >>> I Get Paid $450/day. Find out How. Part >> >>> Time!.> >>> 7.1083 5568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=tg_eDUPDhF8-/J=1 >> >>> 242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728935/R=0/SIG=12vq79phj/ >> >>> *http:/ >> >>> /www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=las >> >>> tweek& >> >>> SID=GetPaid> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> I make $75/Hour. While I >> >>> Sleep!.> >>> 38.108 35568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=tw_eDUPDhF8-/J= >> >>> 1242691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5728952/R=0/ >> >>> SIG=12v6ar5kj/*http: >> >>> //www.socialtrack.net/redir.aspx?CID=18601&AFID=43106&DID=81069&SID=la >> >>> stweek >> >>> &SID=75sleep> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their >> >>> families, for the world and for each >> >>> other> >>> .10835 568/D=groups/S=1705063557:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=uA_eDUPDhF8-/J=12 >> >>> 42691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5697381/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/ >> >>> *http:// >> >>> groups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >>> [http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif]> >>> //grou >> >>> ps >> >>> .yahoo >> >>> .com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaTRsY3ZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzc >> >>> ElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> >> >>> Change settings via the >> >>> Web> >>> jJxBF9 >> >>> TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzb >> >>> GsDc3R >> >>> uZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings >> >>> via >> >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >> >>> Digest> >>> very >> >>> :% >> >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >> >>> Traditional> >>> ange >> >>> %2 >> >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >> >>> HN0aW1 >> >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >> >>> | Unsubscribe >> >>> >> >>> Recent Activity >> >>> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >> >>> ARzdGl >> >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Yahoo! News >> >>> >> >>> Get it all >> >>> here> >>> 867457 >> >>> 8/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uQ_eDUPDhF8-/ >> >>> J=124269 >> >>> 1286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=3848627/R=0/SIG=10obc6i69/*http: >> >>> //news >> >>> .yahoo.com/> >> >>> >> >>> Breaking news to >> >>> >> >>> entertainment news >> >>> >> >>> Drive Traffic >> >>> >> >>> Sponsored >> >>> Search> >>> 2.8674 578/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/ >> >>> B=ug_eDUPDhF8-/J=1242 >> >>> 691286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=4025338/R=0/SIG=12jnci1fd/*htt >> >>> p://us >> >>> .rd.yahoo.com/evt=44092/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/index.p >> >>> hp >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> can help increase >> >>> >> >>> your site traffic. >> >>> >> >>> Yahoo! Groups >> >>> >> >>> Mom >> >>> Power> >>> .86745 >> >>> 78/D=groups/S=1705063557:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1242698486/L=/B=uw_eDUPDhF8-/ >> >>> J=12426 >> >>> 91286336728/K=lyorNwZdsGGfUH6vUmJrTg/A=5689658/R=0/SIG=11eaa5dke/*http >> >>> ://gro >> >>> ups.yahoo.com/group/mompowergroup/> >> >>> >> >>> Find wholesome recipes >> >>> >> >>> and more. Go Moms Go! >> >>> >> >>> . >> >>> >> >>> __,_._,___ >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 16, Issue 100 > **************************************** > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ???? -------------- next part -------------- When I was in yesterday I think they had some 29mm and 54mm motors.? I purchased the last 38mm.? ? Many many more are on the way.? :-) ? ? Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: brodwcjj at integrity.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:03:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's [was] APCP Freedom Sale Days at Tammie's????????Hobbies I'm guessing people took advantage of this sale ?because by the time I ? went in last week ?for L1 reloads there was just a handful of H250s. I was looking for some slower H's Looked like there was reasonable variety left for L2, ?but my budget ? kept me from looking in there and tempting myself. Dustin BAR-NAR-L2 > Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:22:46 -0700 > From: > Subject: [RocketsNW] It's APCP Freedom Sale Days at Tammie's Hobbies > To: > > > Duane asked me to pass this information along. > > All 29mm and 38mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 20% off MSRP > > All 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - ? > 25% off MSRP > > No limits, No LEUP needed. Best of all, the pricing is available on ? > both in stock and ordered items. > Option for delivery to OROC launches is available. > > Sale ends June 15, 2009. > > Tammie's Hobbies > 12024 SW Canyon Rd > Beaverton,Oregon 97005 > Phone # (503)644-4535 > 10am to 8pm on Weekdays. > 10am to 5pm on Saturday. > 12pm to 5pm on Sunday. > www.tammieshobbies.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- > Duane asked me to pass this information along. > ?? > All 29mm and 38mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - 20% off MSRP > ?? > All 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm Aerotech High Power Reloads and Hardware - ? > 25% off MSRP > ?? > No limits, No LEUP needed. Best of all, the pricing is available on ? > both in stock and ordered items. > Option for delivery to OROC launches is available. > ?? > Sale ends June 15, 2009. > ?? > Tammie's Hobbies > 12024 SW Canyon Rd > Beaverton,Oregon 97005 > Phone # (503)644-4535 > 10am to 8pm on Weekdays. > 10am to 5pm on Saturday. > 12pm to 5pm on Sunday. > http://www.tammieshobbies.com/ > www.tammieshobbies.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:53:03 -0700 > From: "Walsh, Tom" > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW:????????[NAR_Sections]????????Joint > ????????StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > To: Eugene Samsonov , Bill Munds , > ????????John????????Hawkins , "rockets at rocketsnw.com" > ???????? > Message-ID: > ???????? > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids ? > are hankering for some rocket flying... > -Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ? > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM > To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint ? > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > Yeah!!! ? I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did > not renew it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Munds" > To: "John Hawkins" ; ; > > Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > > > Eugene and all, > > > > Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. ?Along with motor > starters.. > > > > I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts > after I talk with him. > > > > WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. > > > > Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. ?PayPal for > pre-orders at an additional 3%. > > Club members receive a 5% discount. ?Fliers or attendees that work the > launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. > > Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and > get a gift rather than > > Stubbin and getting nothing. > > > > BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. ?BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. ?Snell > blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, > > and more good stuff. > > > > Burn 'em if you got 'em, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ?EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com >> To: eas0171 at gmail.com >> CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 >> >> good question >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >> sell >> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >> > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >> > not >> > an >> > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> > destroying >> > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license >> > with >> > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >> > >> > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> > >> > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> > motors >> > removed. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Scott T Bowers" >> > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> > >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> > onBATFECase -It'sOver >> > >> > >> >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received >> >>confirmation >> >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >> >> >> >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >> >> To: W. Raymond Stoner >> >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> >> BATFECase >> >> -It'sOver >> >> >> >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >> >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >> >> >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >> >> >> >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE". >> >>> >> >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >> >>> lost? >> >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the >> >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the >> >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait >> >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, >> >>> the law changed. >> >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could >> >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during >> >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >> >>> >> >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for >> >>> it to take effect? What gives? >> >>> >> >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >> >>> playing it safe? >> >>> >> >>> Ray >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >> >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >> >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Scott, >> >>> >> >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >> >>> >> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >> >>> 503-781-3529 >> >>> >> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >> >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Scott T. Bowers >> >>> www.scottsrockets.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >> >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case >> >>> - It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> ] On >> >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >> >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >> >>> >> >>> May 18, 2009 >> >>> >> >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >> >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >> >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP >> >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired >> >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment >> >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that >> >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by >> >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >> >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >> >>> >> >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their >> >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >> >>> possess) >> >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >> >>> While APCP >> >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >> >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >> >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >> >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate >> >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >> >>> certification. >> >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage >> >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with >> >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >> >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to >> >>> purchase. >> >>> Ensuring >> >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >> >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >> >>> outside agencies. >> >>> >> >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should >> >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves >> >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >> >>> District Court. >> >>> >> >>> Trip Barber >> >>> NAR President >> >>> >> >>> Ken Good >> >>> TRA President >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> __._,_.___ >> >>> Messages in this topic >> >>> > >>> 1NGV1Z >> >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >> >>> DMTA1N >> >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >> >>> Reply >> >>> (via web post) >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >> >>> c2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >> >>> Start a new topic >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >> >>> bnRwYw >> >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Messages> >>> MTJkNH >> >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >> >>> A2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Files> >>> JocmZy >> >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsD >> >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >> >>> Photos> >>> dHBpam >> >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >> >>> cgRzbG >> >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Members> >>> JkaDI4 >> >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRz >> >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> MARKETPLACE >> >>> I Get Paid $450/day. 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ID required) Change settings >> >>> via >> >>> email: Switch delivery to Daily >> >>> Digest> >>> very >> >>> :% >> >>> 20Digest> | Switch format to >> >>> Traditional> >>> ange >> >>> %2 >> >>> 0Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmB >> >>> HN0aW1 >> >>> lAzEyNDI2OTEyODY-> | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use >> >>> | Unsubscribe >> >>> >> >>> Recent Activity >> >>> >> >>> Visit Your Group >> >>> > >>> zk3MzU >> >>> 5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdoc >> >>> ARzdGl >> >>> tZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Yahoo! 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Go Moms Go! >> >>> >> >>> . >> >>> >> >>> __,_._,___ >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:07:39 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW:[NAR_Sections] Joint > ????????StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > To: , > Message-ID: > ????????<1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368827DDEAC592 at us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Tom, > > ? ? ? ? If your NAR membership lapse is less that 12 months, you HPR ? > certification will be reinstated upon renewal. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ? > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Walsh, Tom > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:53 PM > To: Eugene Samsonov; Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint ? > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > I'm going to have to re-up for my NAR L2 membership, and the kids ? > are hankering for some rocket flying... > -Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ? > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:48 PM > To: Bill Munds; John Hawkins; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint ? > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > Yeah!!! ? I am now back to HPR (after my LEUP expired last year and I did > not renew it...) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Munds" > To: "John Hawkins" ; ; > > Cc: "Bob Grossfeld" > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:38 PM > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint > StatementonBATFECase-It'sOver > > > > Eugene and all, > > > > Puget Sound Propulsion will be selling reloads BATFE free. ?Along with motor > starters.. > > > > I am calling Mason at L&I tomorrow and will advise everyone with the facts > after I talk with him. > > > > WE WILL REQUIRE NAR AND TRA MEMBERSHIP CARDS WITH CERTIFICATION LEVELS. > > > > Just a reminder, we accept cash and checks at the launch. ?PayPal for > pre-orders at an additional 3%. > > Club members receive a 5% discount. ?Fliers or attendees that work the > launch will receive a reward for purchaes at the launch. > > Dave and I haven't decided what that will be yet, but why not help out and > get a gift rather than > > Stubbin and getting nothing. > > > > BUY RAFFLE TICKETS. ?BRING EXTRA MONEY FOR "GOOD STUFF" AUCTION. ?Snell > blanket (keepsake), Mark Lyons rocket assembly rack, > > and more good stuff. > > > > Burn 'em if you got 'em, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > ?EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: johnhawkins at wavecable.com >> To: eas0171 at gmail.com >> CC: appusher at q.com; rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 19:58:26 -0700 >> >> good question >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Eugene Samsonov >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:30 PM >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint StatementonBATFECase >> -It'sOver >> >> This is all cool, but is there going to be a vendor at FITS willing to >> sell >> reloads without having a LEUP on file? >> >> -Eugene >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Scott T Bowers" ; "'Terry Moore-Read'" >> ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:54 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint >> StatementonBATFECase -It'sOver >> >> >> > Loser is not required to say anything. The US law states that ACPC is >> > not >> > an >> > explosive. And based on the judgement, it never was. I will be >> > destroying >> > all my purchase records. And I'm asking the AFT to re-issue my license >> > with >> > rocket motors removed from the "purpose" of the LEUP >> > >> > October 11th, 2007 never happened, based on the judgement. >> > >> > We won. They lost. I'm not waiting to get my license modified with >> > motors >> > removed. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Robert >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Scott T Bowers" >> > To: "'Terry Moore-Read'" ; "'W. Raymond Stoner'" >> > >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:43 PM >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement >> > onBATFECase -It'sOver >> > >> > >> >>I think what they were saying is although we have not received >> >>confirmation >> >> from the ATF, tough poo poo, we won, proceed freely. >> >> >> >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> >> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read >> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 PM >> >> To: W. Raymond Stoner >> >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on >> >> BATFECase >> >> -It'sOver >> >> >> >> Indeed, the only thing the ATF has to do to comply is to refrain from >> >> enforcing the now non-existant rules against us. >> >> >> >> On May 18, 2009, at 6:21 PM, W. Raymond Stoner wrote: >> >> >> >>> NAR and TRA say "although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE". >> >>> >> >>> Since when does the loser of a trial have to acknowledge that they >> >>> lost? >> >>> Isn't the judgment final now? I'm under the impression that when the >> >>> judge enters the order, that order is immediate and effective from the >> >>> time the order is filed. The appeal deadline was a nice thing to wait >> >>> for, but not really required. At the time the judgment was entered, >> >>> the law changed. >> >>> Laws can't be applied retroactively, but I understand that there could >> >>> be some confusion regarding what to do with motors purchased during >> >>> that period, so it's wise to just wait a bit. >> >>> >> >>> Now we are being told that the BATFE has to acknowledge the ruling for >> >>> it to take effect? What gives? >> >>> >> >>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me? Are NAR and TRA just >> >>> playing it safe? >> >>> >> >>> Ray >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:55 PM >> >>> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; >> >>> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Scott, >> >>> >> >>> Where I come from, my people say, "Like, way-COOL, dude!" >> >>> >> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >> >>> 503-781-3529 >> >>> >> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:07 PM >> >>> To: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE >> >>> Case -It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> Pretty cool don't ya think? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Scott T. Bowers >> >>> www.scottsrockets.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> >>> ] >> >>> On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:04 PM >> >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case >> >>> - It'sOver >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> From: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> [mailto:NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> ] On >> >>> Behalf Of Trip Barber >> >>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:01 PM >> >>> To: NAR_Sections at yahoogroups.com >> >>> Subject: [NAR_Sections] Joint Statement on BATFE Case - It's Over >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Joint Statement on the BATFE Litigation >> >>> >> >>> May 18, 2009 >> >>> >> >>> Since the U. S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives has >> >>> not appealed the decision of the Federal District Court of March 16, >> >>> 2009, which ordered the agency to vacate their classification of APCP >> >>> as an explosive, and the period for their ability to do so has expired >> >>> as of May 16, 2009, on advice of counsel, we believe that the judgment >> >>> is considered final although we have not received confirmation from >> >>> BATFE. Accordingly, members may operate under the understanding that >> >>> APCP rocket motors are no longer regulated as an explosive material by >> >>> BATFE, and no longer require the permits formerly required by the >> >>> agency to buy, sell, or possess such motors. >> >>> >> >>> Members possessing a LEUP are advised that they should evaluate their >> >>> individual situation based upon whether they possess (or plan to >> >>> possess) >> >>> and store materials that are still considered regulated by BATFE. >> >>> While APCP >> >>> rocket motors are now no longer regulated under the requirements of >> >>> the "Orange Book" and are not subject to requiring a LEUP, other >> >>> materials may be subject to these requirements. >> >>> Members are also reminded that both NAR and TRA safety codes stipulate >> >>> what motors they may possess, depending on their level of flyer >> >>> certification. >> >>> These rules still apply to our members. We likewise strongly encourage >> >>> vendors of hobby rocket motors to continue to work cooperatively with >> >>> the rocketry community to only sell rocket motors to customers who >> >>> possess flyer certifications commensurate with the motors they wish to >> >>> purchase. >> >>> Ensuring >> >>> we maintain our strong level of self-regulation will be an essential >> >>> element in our ability to retain this freedom from overregulation by >> >>> outside agencies. >> >>> >> >>> Members should immediately contact the leadership of NAR or TRA should >> >>> they encounter situations were any BATFE personnel conduct themselves >> >>> in a manner inconsistent with the final judgment of the Federal >> >>> District Court. >> >>> >> >>> Trip Barber >> >>> NAR President >> >>> >> >>> Ken Good >> >>> TRA President >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> __._,_.___ >> >>> Messages in this topic >> >>> > >>> 1NGV1Z >> >>> jYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQ >> >>> DMTA1N >> >>> jYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2BHRwY0lkAzEwNTY2> (1) >> >>> Reply >> >>> (via web post) >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEbXNnSWQDMTA1NjYE >> >>> c2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2?act=reply&messageNum=10566> | >> >>> Start a new topic >> >>> > >>> BF9TAz >> >>> k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsD >> >>> bnRwYw >> >>> RzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> Messages> >>> MTJkNH >> >>> Ixa3ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2Vj >> >>> A2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Files> >>> JocmZy >> >>> BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0cg >> >>> RzbGsD >> >>> ZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MjY5MTI4Ng--> | >> >>> Photos> >>> dHBpam >> >>> V2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2Z0 >> >>> cgRzbG >> >>> sDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> | >> >>> Members> >>> JkaDI4 >> >>> cWw0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI3NjEwMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjM1NTcEc2VjA2 >> >>> Z0cgRz >> >>> bGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjQyNjkxMjg2> >> >>> MARKETPLACE >> >>> I Get Paid $450/day. 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Go Moms Go! >> >>> >> >>> . >> >>> >> >>> __,_._,___ >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Rockets mailing list >> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 16, Issue 100 > **************************************** > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Wed Jun 17 16:20:40 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:20:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: SUNRIVER Delivery to June Launch Message-ID: Greetings all, Since we have some pre-orders for motors, we are going to come out to the Launch site on Friday evening and will be selling product from 8pm-9ish....... We will bring High Power Motors and Estes motors, and few other items. However, we are not bringing the whole store, so if you need a kit, or some other parts, please let me know ahead of time. Thanks and see you on Friday evening......... Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory From brodwcjj at integrity.com Wed Jun 17 16:28:35 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:28:35 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F; published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090617182835.21233uxnzdmqhm2o@wm.integrity.com> Amazing, thanks for the info. Since the firearm angle didn't work for them maybe they WILL try the tobacco angle ! ? APCP burns faster than tobacco, I see the science coming.. Dustin TongueStillInCheek Brown From: Terry Moore-Read Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. From gbhchrist at verizon.net Wed Jun 17 17:12:45 2009 From: gbhchrist at verizon.net (George Christ) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:12:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The ATF published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <20090617182835.21233uxnzdmqhm2o@wm.integrity.com> References: <20090617182835.21233uxnzdmqhm2o@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <036C8EE6DD5C43D296637D875BD3FA8D@LittleGoodBox> Aye, but APCP (well, rocketry in general) can be demonstrated to be more addictive than either tobacco or alcohol. Maybe they will pursue that angle. I packed my chutes last night preflight Zero hour nine a.m... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F; published this yesterday. > Amazing, thanks for the info. > > > Since the firearm angle didn't work for them maybe they WILL try the > tobacco angle ! ? > > APCP burns faster than tobacco, I see the science coming.. > > > Dustin TongueStillInCheek Brown > > > > From: Terry Moore-Read > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. > > They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, > however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research > purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Jun 17 22:44:48 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <375B7CA7-6936-4CA9-A921-E25F551BFD72@mooreread.com> References: <20090617142325.13165zyt13gx65k4@wm.integrity.com> <375B7CA7-6936-4CA9-A921-E25F551BFD72@mooreread.com> Message-ID: > terry at mooreread.com wrote: > They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, > however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research > purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. And the definition of "research purposes" can be changed by Congress. Under what reasoning? Go back and read the infamous DoJ 'views' letter where DoJ claimed hobby rockets could be converted into weapons. Total BS but worked once to scare Congressmen. They don't have to be right. They just have to be sneaky. +McG+ From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Jun 17 22:57:39 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <923DF3D21EA549C48BBD0979581868ED@LaptopKrausert> References: <20090617142325.13165zyt13gx65k4@wm.integrity.com> <375B7CA7-6936-4CA9-A921-E25F551BFD72@mooreread.com> <923DF3D21EA549C48BBD0979581868ED@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: Interesting line of logic, Robert. But Hypertek proved you could get around the igniter issue. Some modification of the Safety Code as it applies to launch systems may be needed, but there are ways to get the job done without regulated items. Not better or safer or easier ways, but ways. Expose bacteria to antibiotics, they adapt. Impose anti-rocket regulations on hobbyists, they adapt. Amazing how that works. ;-) But then, doing away with white-tip matches *did* put a crimp on some classic pyro tricks. +McG+ > My own opinion > > AFT will stand down until 2011. Right now the new administration has > nothing > up their heads (yes, keeping it clean) regarding new regulations on a > consumer market driven hobby. 5-minutes with the Rocket Boys or NAR or TRA > would demonstrate the self-policing and safety controls of this hobby. > Regulating ignintors will not happen entirely. One amazing law of consumer > products is the ability to use them. If today you can purchase a APCP > motor, > but all types of ignitors are regulated... The law has just been broken. > The > purchaser of the consumer motor must be capable to use it. If they must > carry a permit to hold the ignitor to use it, then the motor cannot be a > consumer product. A consumer product must be usable and have a purpose; > example the customer experience must be at least the ability to use it, as > defined in the consumer purchase. Now of course it's not required to offer > a > place to use it. But in theory, it must be usable. Modifications void this > acknowledgement. If a rocket motor can be sold as a consumer product, > there > must be a mechanism to use it in the consumer market. > > I see no reason for the Administration to take any action until 2011. > Rider > to any current bill? I cannot see it at this time. In 2011 during the > campaigns, I can see something slipping in and so low on anyones radar > screen to get reaction. > > Before the hype of the next election cycle, we all need to keep our > representatives aware of us and what we offer the community. (vehicles to > get there, camping supplies, fuel, service stations, food, hotels, motor > and > hobby vendors, and so many more things. We bring revenue to many places > and > means.) > > I end by saying this... If you're not telling your representative and > senator to support this hobby, then you should not complain if hobby gets > challenged by the house or senate.. I know some things are corrupt. And > yes > some are, and that's sad. I still believe that our reps will listen. So in > late 2010 and 2011, make sure they know you, your hobby, and your > expectation for them to support us. If you don't, then don't complain if > the > house and senate take action against us. > > Not trying to urk people. Just like voting... If you don't try or don't > voice in, then you shouldn't complain. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Moore-Read" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. > > >> They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, >> however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research >> purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. >> >> On Jun 17, 2009, at 12:23 PM, brodwcjj at integrity.com wrote: >> >>> >>> TongueInCheek, >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses >> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S. >> >> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or >> privileged material, and is intended solely >> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any >> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri- >> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited. >> >> If you are not the recipient, and believe that >> you have received this in error, please notify >> the sender and delete the copy you received. >> >> Thank You! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Sales at pvconly.com Thu Jun 18 07:28:35 2009 From: Sales at pvconly.com (Sam Grado www.pvconly.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] TCIII Message-ID: <575708.41892.qm@web1209.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Just a request to Northwest fliers out at the Brothers launch site this year, that my 7' X 3" black CF rocket was lost S/SW of pad 5 in an area behind the rise west of the old home site (Approx 1/4 mile from the pad). ? It came in ballistic last August. If found this year, please contact me. ? Thanks -------------- next part -------------- Just a request to Northwest fliers out at the Brothers launch site this year, that my 7' X 3" black CF rocket was lost S/SW of pad 5 in an area behind the rise west of the old home site (Approx 1/4 mile from the pad). ? It came in ballistic last August. If found this year, please contact me. ? Thanks From jjcllc03 at aol.com Thu Jun 18 11:23:11 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:23:11 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F; published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <20090617182835.21233uxnzdmqhm2o@wm.integrity.com> References: <20090617182835.21233uxnzdmqhm2o@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <8CBBE58F85C7BF2-1138-133@webmail-md08.sysops.aol.com> Well, if they go the tobacco route then I say, "Smoke 'em if you got 'em!" :) -----Original Message----- From: brodwcjj at integrity.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2009 4:28 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F; published this yesterday. Amazing, thanks for the info. Since the firearm angle didn't work for them maybe they WILL try the tobacco angle ! ? APCP burns faster than tobacco, I see the science coming.. Dustin TongueStillInCheek Brown From: Terry Moore-Read Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- -----Original Message----- From: brodwcjj at integrity.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2009 4:28 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F; published this yesterday. Amazing, thanks for the info. Since the firearm angle didn't work for them maybe they WILL try the tobacco angle ! ? APCP burns faster than tobacco, I see the science coming.. Dustin TongueStillInCheek Brown From: Terry Moore-Read < mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222677718x1201465083/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692163%3B38015526%3Be Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! From terry at mooreread.com Thu Jun 18 11:42:34 2009 From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:42:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F; published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: <8CBBE58F85C7BF2-1138-133@webmail-md08.sysops.aol.com> References: <20090617182835.21233uxnzdmqhm2o@wm.integrity.com> <8CBBE58F85C7BF2-1138-133@webmail-md08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: But didn't tobacco just get put under FDA control ? On Jun 18, 2009, at 11:23 AM, jjcllc03 at aol.com wrote: > Well, if they go the tobacco route then I say, "Smoke 'em if you got > 'em!" :) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2009 4:28 pm > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F; published this yesterday. > > > > Amazing, thanks for the info. > > > Since the firearm angle didn't work for them maybe they WILL try the > tobacco angle ! ? > > APCP burns faster than tobacco, I see the science coming.. > > > Dustin TongueStillInCheek Brown > > > > From: Terry Moore-Read > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. > > They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, > however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research > purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S. NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or privileged material, and is intended solely for use by the above referenced recipient. Any review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri- bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited. If you are not the recipient, and believe that you have received this in error, please notify the sender and delete the copy you received. Thank You! From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Jun 18 13:03:11 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F; published this yesterday. In-Reply-To: References: <20090617182835.21233uxnzdmqhm2o@wm.integrity.com> <8CBBE58F85C7BF2-1138-133@webmail-md08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <028640b167fa3d53ae8d6ca2b9481bd7.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Oh gawd, FDA control over sugar motors! They'd make us add bittering agents and stamp an expiration date on 'em! And three pages of tiny print in seventy-nine languages stating, "Not for Human Consumption" included with every motor clearly labeled EXPLOSIVE in big letters. :-) Don't laugh too hard--the FDA regulates X-ray machines and a whole bunch of other things besides food and drugs, which they hardly regulate at all. +McG+ > But didn't tobacco just get put under FDA control ? > > On Jun 18, 2009, at 11:23 AM, jjcllc03 at aol.com wrote: > >> Well, if they go the tobacco route then I say, "Smoke 'em if you got >> 'em!" :) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2009 4:28 pm >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F; published this yesterday. >> >> >> >> Amazing, thanks for the info. >> >> >> Since the firearm angle didn't work for them maybe they WILL try the >> tobacco angle ! ? >> >> APCP burns faster than tobacco, I see the science coming.. >> >> >> Dustin TongueStillInCheek Brown >> >> >> >> From: Terry Moore-Read >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The A,T.F published this yesterday. >> >> They suggested that angle once with the NAR/Tripoli at a meeting, >> however the statute exempts rockets without warheads for research >> purposes from regulation as firearms / destructive devices. >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses > and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S. > > NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or > privileged material, and is intended solely > for use by the above referenced recipient. Any > review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri- > bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the recipient, and believe that > you have received this in error, please notify > the sender and delete the copy you received. > > Thank You! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From t.j.doll at att.net Thu Jun 18 18:09:46 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 01:09:46 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day at 60 Acres? Message-ID: <061920090109.1062.4A3AE55A0004F2060000042622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut short so I plan to be at 60 Acres Sunday (weather permitting). Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but I do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, most of it scale). My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my range box is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. So who else is planning on being there? Tim -------------- next part -------------- I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut short so I plan to be?at 60?Acres Sunday?(weather permitting). ? Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but I do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, most of it scale).? My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my range box is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. ? So who else is planning on being there? ? Tim From tom.walsh at intel.com Thu Jun 18 18:17:22 2009 From: tom.walsh at intel.com (Walsh, Tom) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:17:22 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lucky dog! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:59 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted I used to test at a farm in Silverton where the farm dog would try to eat a firing motor, a habit he got into by attacking fireworks on the 4th. I've got a few videos where the dog comes running into the frame right as the motor burns out. Mike F. In a message dated 6/15/2009 11:53:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fred at azinger.com writes: Yea, Gabe's dog has seen it all.... Looks are somewhat deceiving -- the tripod is low to the ground and zoomed in -- the dog isn't that close to the motor.....but he does seem to care less about the burn.... -----Original Message----- From: Steve Tarr [mailto:stevet19759 at comcast.net] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:09 PM To: Fred Azinger Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fynocyl Test Video posted I like the mechanism for measuring the burn time in tail wags. Cool use of bio-technology! -ST Fred Azinger wrote: > I've been working on my slow burn propellant -- starting with Swamp Gas and moving on....this is my FSGv5 which now only shares R45, DOA, Aluminum, Chrome Oxide and 200um AP (only) as common ingredients with it roots..... > I like Swamp gas, but needed to convert to something that used only 200um AP as I'm out of 400um... > > One issue with these slow-burn propellants is try to avoid long tailing burn profiles.... > The Fynocyl core helps this by providing a near square burn profile...great for a booster motor....I can see why the military likes it...and it makes a nice core profile to "clean up" the ragged edges of a slow burn propellant > > Ed at Trucore made the mandrel for me to my specifications....5/8" core, six fins that are 0.125" wide and 0.3" long... > I have a PR Gizmo in the works with a 98mm hole -- I have a 14" long 98mm case that touches the NC when installed in the Gizmo. > This 9" grain is all that can fit. > In order to maximize the altitude of the Gizmo, it needs to go slow.....I think I've succeeded with this motor. > It has plenty of power to get it off the pad -- plenty long burn time of real substantive thrust! > > Now I need to finish the rocket ;-) > > > See the video at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/FynTestBurmVideo.wmv > > See a picture of the grain at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1463-small.jpg > > See the static photo at: http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/IMG_1470-small.jpg > > > Enjoy -- see ya in the sage soon!!! > FredA > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) From gbhchrist at verizon.net Thu Jun 18 21:00:32 2009 From: gbhchrist at verizon.net (George Christ) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:00:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day at 60 Acres? In-Reply-To: <061920090109.1062.4A3AE55A0004F2060000042622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <061920090109.1062.4A3AE55A0004F2060000042622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <26C814D5BC724F7B978A6B74D943717E@LittleGoodBox> I will also be there with my 18mm and 24 mm fleet. I'd previously heard of numerous others, but I will let them represent their plans for themselves. Originally, we had a Scouting group from the Burien - Federal Way area that was going to join us, so I planned to bring my 6-pad model rail as well as my mid-power pad. The Scouts cancelled earlier this week (I don't blame them; it would be a long trip on Fathers Day -- other plans won out), so I will probably bring both sets of GSE, but will set up only the mid-power pad -- with interchangeable 1/8 in and 3/16 in rods -- unless the turnout justified the larger rig. George ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rocket Lost" Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 6:09 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day at 60 Acres? >I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut >short so I plan to be at 60 Acres Sunday (weather permitting). > > Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but > I do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, > most of it scale). My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my > range box is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. > > So who else is planning on being there? > > Tim > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut short so I plan to be?at 60?Acres Sunday?(weather permitting). ? Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but I do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, most of it scale).? My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my range box is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. ? So who else is planning on being there? ? Tim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From mkquinn at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 21:01:39 2009 From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:01:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day at 60 Acres? In-Reply-To: <061920090109.1062.4A3AE55A0004F2060000042622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <061920090109.1062.4A3AE55A0004F2060000042622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <5a1085980906182101j16d569c2ga4601fe57fb62132@mail.gmail.com> I'll be there with my "D" powered upscale Quark, my inflatable "Dude", along with a couple others. I'll have a 1/4" rod that will be free for anyone who want to use it. Mark Q On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 6:09 PM, wrote: > I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut > short so I plan to be at 60 Acres Sunday (weather permitting). > > Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but I > do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, most > of it scale). My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my range box > is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. > > So who else is planning on being there? > > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- I'll be there with my "D" powered upscale Quark, my inflatable "Dude", along with a couple others. I'll have a 1/4" rod that will be free for anyone who want to use it. ? Mark Q On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 6:09 PM, < mailto:t.j.doll at att.net t.j.doll at att.net > wrote: I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut short so I plan to be?at 60?Acres Sunday?(weather permitting). ? Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but I do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, most of it scale).? My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my range box is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. ? So who else is planning on being there? ? Tim _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From dmrandall at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 21:09:11 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:09:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day at 60 Acres? In-Reply-To: <26C814D5BC724F7B978A6B74D943717E@LittleGoodBox> References: <061920090109.1062.4A3AE55A0004F2060000042622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <26C814D5BC724F7B978A6B74D943717E@LittleGoodBox> Message-ID: <6bc920e40906182109s1e457591jca2be7481e5b6b03@mail.gmail.com> I'll be there with a few 18, 24, and 29mm rockets. I have a new Art Applewhite saucer that should do well on F and G motors. For GSE, I plan on bringing down my 10 channel controller and wires. I'll have some tape to "rope off" a flight line, and a few tables for flight operations (although I'm betting a bunch of kids will end up being button pushers). I have a few Estes launch pads and a larger rod for mid-power. I have a Little Dog Dual Deploy that flew only to a few hundred feet on a G67 at the April tune-up launch. I'm thinking it might be a good flyer on a small field with just a bit more umph - and I can still dual deploy it. If anyone who's coming has a small rail, I could launch the little-dog. And, I'll have the 22' tall U4EA rocket on display there from FITS. Dave On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:00 PM, George Christ wrote: > I will also be there with my 18mm and 24 mm fleet. I'd previously heard of > numerous others, but I will let them represent their plans for themselves. > > Originally, we had a Scouting group from the Burien - Federal Way area that > was going to join us, so I planned to bring my 6-pad model rail as well as > my mid-power pad. The Scouts cancelled earlier this week (I don't blame > them; it would be a long trip on Fathers Day -- other plans won out), so I > will probably bring both sets of GSE, but will set up only the mid-power > pad -- with interchangeable 1/8 in and 3/16 in rods -- unless the turnout > justified the larger rig. > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rocket Lost" > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 6:09 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day at 60 Acres? > > >>I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut >>short so I plan to be at 60 Acres Sunday (weather permitting). >> >> Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but >> I do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, >> most of it scale). ?My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my >> range box is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. >> >> So who else is planning on being there? >> >> Tim >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut > short so I plan to be?at 60?Acres Sunday?(weather permitting). > ? > Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but I > do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, most > of it scale).? My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my range box > is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. > ? > So who else is planning on being there? > ? > Tim > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -- - Dave From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Thu Jun 18 19:18:47 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:18:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder Message-ID: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net> I just wanted to remind those of you in the Seattle area of the Father's Day Fun Fly launch this Sunday at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 2:00pm. I look forward to seeing you there. Robert From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Thu Jun 18 21:59:35 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:59:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day at 60 Acres? References: <061920090109.1062.4A3AE55A0004F2060000042622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net><26C814D5BC724F7B978A6B74D943717E@LittleGoodBox> <6bc920e40906182109s1e457591jca2be7481e5b6b03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B50@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Due to the kids' schedules, my students and I will be kicking the Fathers' Day at 60 Acres launch off about 18 hours early. We'll be out there from about 3 pm until we run out of motors, launching an assortment of 18, 24, and 29 mm stuff. All three of the Northwest's TARC finalist teams will be giving their vehicles one last ride before they are retired to the school's showcase for display (for a year or so). I'll also be bringing an Art Applewhite 29mm Stealth that I've been itching to try out on a G motor. Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School Seattle, WA ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Dave Randall Sent: Thu 6/18/2009 9:09 PM To: George Christ Cc: Rocket Lost; t.j.doll at att.net Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Father's Day at 60 Acres? I'll be there with a few 18, 24, and 29mm rockets. I have a new Art Applewhite saucer that should do well on F and G motors. For GSE, I plan on bringing down my 10 channel controller and wires. I'll have some tape to "rope off" a flight line, and a few tables for flight operations (although I'm betting a bunch of kids will end up being button pushers). I have a few Estes launch pads and a larger rod for mid-power. I have a Little Dog Dual Deploy that flew only to a few hundred feet on a G67 at the April tune-up launch. I'm thinking it might be a good flyer on a small field with just a bit more umph - and I can still dual deploy it. If anyone who's coming has a small rail, I could launch the little-dog. And, I'll have the 22' tall U4EA rocket on display there from FITS. Dave On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:00 PM, George Christ wrote: > I will also be there with my 18mm and 24 mm fleet. I'd previously heard of > numerous others, but I will let them represent their plans for themselves. > > Originally, we had a Scouting group from the Burien - Federal Way area that > was going to join us, so I planned to bring my 6-pad model rail as well as > my mid-power pad. The Scouts cancelled earlier this week (I don't blame > them; it would be a long trip on Fathers Day -- other plans won out), so I > will probably bring both sets of GSE, but will set up only the mid-power > pad -- with interchangeable 1/8 in and 3/16 in rods -- unless the turnout > justified the larger rig. > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rocket Lost" > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 6:09 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day at 60 Acres? > > >>I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut >>short so I plan to be at 60 Acres Sunday (weather permitting). >> >> Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but >> I do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, >> most of it scale). My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my >> range box is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. >> >> So who else is planning on being there? >> >> Tim >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I didn't think I was going to be in-town for this, but my trip is being cut > short so I plan to be?at 60?Acres Sunday?(weather permitting). > ? > Most of my 'best' stuff is currently on the way to New York for LDRS, but I > do plan to show up with a good assortment of 18mm and 24mm stuff (yes, most > of it scale).? My support equipment will be a bit sparse since my range box > is currently on a truck somewhere, but I think I can manage. > ? > So who else is planning on being there? > ? > Tim > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steve at bestmortgage.com Thu Jun 18 23:33:31 2009 From: steve at bestmortgage.com (Steve Tytler) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:33:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder In-Reply-To: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net> References: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <06ea01c9f0a7$dd766ba0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> Does this mean we HAVE to stop flying at 2 PM, or can we keep going if we have our own launch equipment? Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Hammer Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:19 PM To: NW Rocketry mailing list Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder I just wanted to remind those of you in the Seattle area of the Father's Day Fun Fly launch this Sunday at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 2:00pm. I look forward to seeing you there. Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steve at bestmortgage.com Fri Jun 19 09:45:59 2009 From: steve at bestmortgage.com (Steve Tytler) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:45:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder In-Reply-To: References: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net> <06ea01c9f0a7$dd766ba0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> Message-ID: <010001c9f0fd$6cebe1c0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> I will probably still be there after 2 PM so I hope nobody else has the field at that time and we can keep flying. Just curious, is there a reason why we didn't reserve the whole afternoon? For example, could we have reserved 9:30 am to 6:00 pm? Just wondering why the early cut-off. Thanks, Steve _____ From: C Bennight [mailto:bennightfam at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:55 AM To: steve at bestmortgage.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder Steve, I may need to arrive in the afternoon too since I have church in the morning. I have a couple of rockets on G motors itching to go too. Mike Bennight > From: steve at bestmortgage.com > To: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:33:31 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder > > > Does this mean we HAVE to stop flying at 2 PM, > or can we keep going if we have our own launch > equipment? > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Hammer > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:19 PM > To: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder > > I just wanted to remind those of you in the Seattle area of the Father's Day > Fun Fly launch this Sunday at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 2:00pm. > I look forward to seeing you there. > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _____ BingT brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- I will probably still be there after 2 PM so I hope nobody else has the field at that time and we can keep flying. ? Just curious, is there a reason why we didn't reserve the whole afternoon?? For example, could we have reserved 9:30 am to 6:00 pm? ? Just wondering why the early cut-off. ? Thanks, ? Steve ? ? ? From: C Bennight [mailto:bennightfam at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:55 AM To: steve at bestmortgage.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder Steve, ? I may need to arrive in the afternoon too since I have church in the morning. I have a couple of rockets on G motors itching to go too. ? Mike Bennight ? > From: steve at bestmortgage.com > To: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:33:31 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder > > > Does this mean we HAVE to stop flying at 2 PM, > or can we keep going if we have our own launch > equipment? > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Hammer > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:19 PM > To: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder > > I just wanted to remind those of you in the Seattle area of the Father's Day > Fun Fly launch this Sunday at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 2:00pm. > I look forward to seeing you there. > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > Bing??? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 Try it now. From dmrandall at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 12:46:08 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:46:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder In-Reply-To: <010001c9f0fd$6cebe1c0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> References: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net> <06ea01c9f0a7$dd766ba0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> <010001c9f0fd$6cebe1c0$6501a8c0@HDNW1> Message-ID: <6bc920e40906191246j69cec0afwc5bf19e0a67f5991@mail.gmail.com> Their office is closed today so well hope for the best. On Friday, June 19, 2009, Steve Tytler wrote: > I will probably still be there after 2 PM so I hope nobody else > has the field at that time and we can keep flying. > > Just curious, is there a reason why we didn't reserve the whole > afternoon?? For example, could we have reserved 9:30 am to 6:00 pm? > > Just wondering why the early cut-off. > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > From: > C Bennight [mailto:bennightfam at hotmail.com] > Sent: > Friday, June 19, 2009 8:55 AM > To: > steve at bestmortgage.com > Subject: > RE: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder > Steve, > > I may need to arrive in the afternoon too since I have church in the morning. I have a couple of rockets on G motors itching to go too. > > Mike Bennight > >> From: steve at bestmortgage.com >> To: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:33:31 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder >> >> >> Does this mean we HAVE to stop flying at 2 PM, >> or can we keep going if we have our own launch >> equipment? >> >> Steve >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Hammer >> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:19 PM >> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder >> >> I just wanted to remind those of you in the Seattle area of the Father's Day >> Fun Fly launch this Sunday at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 2:00pm. >> I look forward to seeing you there. >> >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > Bing??? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 Try it now. > -- - Dave From Sales at pvconly.com Fri Jun 19 22:44:37 2009 From: Sales at pvconly.com (Sales at pvconly.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Message-ID: <228304.54282.qm@web1204.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Alright, let me state I have the APCP god spreadsheet of APCP formulations. ? I have CH Smoke, CP Smoke, CP Smoke Slow, CP Smoke +, T&AJ Smoke. ? Does anyone have a reliable, reproducible delay grain?comp that performs as well as an AT delay or LOKI delay? (Beside AT or LOKI) -------------- next part -------------- Alright, let me state I have the APCP god spreadsheet of APCP formulations. ? I have CH Smoke, CP Smoke, CP Smoke Slow, CP Smoke +, T&AJ Smoke. ? Does anyone have a reliable, reproducible delay grain?comp that performs as well as an AT delay or LOKI delay? (Beside AT or LOKI) From raystoner99 at comcast.net Sat Jun 20 07:56:48 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 07:56:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp In-Reply-To: <228304.54282.qm@web1204.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <228304.54282.qm@web1204.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c9f1b7$57151b40$053f51c0$@net> According to the MSDS for AT delay grains, it's their BlackJack formula. Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Sales at pvconly.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:45 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Alright, let me state I have the APCP god spreadsheet of APCP formulations. ? I have CH Smoke, CP Smoke, CP Smoke Slow, CP Smoke +, T&AJ Smoke. ? Does anyone have a reliable, reproducible delay grain?comp that performs as well as an AT delay or LOKI delay? (Beside AT or LOKI) From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sat Jun 20 11:22:21 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:22:21 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L motor flight Message-ID: The 38mm L performed nominally, full recovery (sans one fin and a charred-delaminated fin can) on Saturday morning. Blue Tube does not do well with high mach numbers. Details to follow. Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- The 38mm L performed nominally, full recovery (sans one fin and a charred-delaminated fin can)? on Saturday morning.? Blue Tube does not do well with high mach numbers.? Details to follow. ? Mike F. Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From tomjerry1 at dishmail.net Sat Jun 20 14:23:04 2009 From: tomjerry1 at dishmail.net (Roy Jenkins) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:23:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L motor flight References: Message-ID: <1B2FE92887314CA79CCD0FEF54B16733@myDell> Mike Where was it ? sorry I missed it, that was one I wanted to see, we did hear it Roy -------------- next part -------------- Mike? Where was it ?? sorry I missed?it,?that was?one I wanted to see, we did hear it ?Roy From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sat Jun 20 14:33:56 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:33:56 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L motor flight Message-ID: I found it using your advice to check further north based on where you guys recovered. It was at the base of the hill, but on the side, which explains why I couldn't get a good signal from the front, or from behind. With Fred's radio it took all of about five minutes to find it. It was about 100 yards off the road. Time to shop for a better radio. Don't worry, if you go to BALLS this year you'll get another chance to see it. Following John Lyngdal's advice I'm going to try to optimize the nozzle a little better before then. And I have to talk to you about welding up a fin can. I'm tired of shredding and melting parts. Mike In a message dated 6/20/2009 2:23:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tomjerry1 at dishmail.net writes: Mike Where was it ? sorry I missed it, that was one I wanted to see, we did hear it Roy **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- I found it using your advice to check further north based on where you guys recovered.? It was at the base of the hill, but on the side, which explains why I couldn't get a good signal from the front, or from behind.? With Fred's radio it took all of about five minutes to find it.? It was about 100 yards off the road. ? Time to shop for a better radio. ? Don't worry, if you go to BALLS this year you'll get another chance to see it.? Following John Lyngdal's advice I'm going to try to optimize the nozzle a little better before then. ? And I have to talk to you about welding up a fin can.? I'm tired of shredding and melting parts. ? Mike ? In a message dated 6/20/2009 2:23:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tomjerry1 at dishmail.net writes: Mike? Where was it ?? sorry I missed?it,?that was?one I wanted to see, we did hear it ?Roy Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sat Jun 20 18:21:52 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:21:52 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data Message-ID: Max g's 159.40, altitude 18,094' motor burn time 1.2 sec, with slight tail off to 3.3 sec. Loss of fin after burn out handicapped the altitude. It broke mach at .46 seconds and 310' altitude. Special thanks to John Hornsby who assisted re-prep after blowing a charge on the pad and helped with recovery efforts, and Robert and Randy for handling the high waiver requests. I have some work to do before BALLS. Mike F. **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- Max g's 159.40, altitude 18,094'? motor burn time 1.2 sec, with slight tail off to 3.3 sec.? Loss of fin after burn out handicapped?the altitude.? It broke mach at .46 seconds and 310' altitude. ? Special thanks to John Hornsby who assisted re-prep after blowing a charge on the pad and helped with recovery efforts, and Robert and Randy for handling the high waiver requests. ? I have some work to do before BALLS. ? Mike F. ? ? Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From scott at scottsrockets.com Sat Jun 20 18:35:26 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:35:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp In-Reply-To: <228304.54282.qm@web1204.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <228304.54282.qm@web1204.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'll sell you the delay comp I got from Deputy that he stole from Binford, only 1000 dollars.... Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Sales at pvconly.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:45 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Alright, let me state I have the APCP god spreadsheet of APCP formulations. ? I have CH Smoke, CP Smoke, CP Smoke Slow, CP Smoke +, T&AJ Smoke. ? Does anyone have a reliable, reproducible delay grain?comp that performs as well as an AT delay or LOKI delay? (Beside AT or LOKI) From Sales at pvconly.com Sat Jun 20 18:42:18 2009 From: Sales at pvconly.com (Sam Grado www.pvconly.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Message-ID: <250494.22724.qm@web1211.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Will you take Iraqi Dinars....???? --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: From: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp To: Sales at pvconly.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 6:35 PM I'll sell you the delay comp I got from Deputy that he stole from Binford, only 1000 dollars.... Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Sales at pvconly.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:45 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Alright, let me state I have the APCP god spreadsheet of APCP formulations. ? I have CH Smoke, CP Smoke, CP Smoke Slow, CP Smoke +, T&AJ Smoke. ? Does anyone have a reliable, reproducible delay grain?comp that performs as well as an AT delay or LOKI delay? (Beside AT or LOKI) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- Will you take Iraqi Dinars....???? --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: From: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp To: Sales at pvconly.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 6:35 PM I'll sell you the delay comp I got from Deputy that he stole from Binford, only 1000 dollars.... Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Sales at pvconly.com Sales at pvconly.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:45 PM To: http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Alright, let me state I have the APCP god spreadsheet of APCP formulations. ? I have CH Smoke, CP Smoke, CP Smoke Slow, CP Smoke +, T&AJ Smoke. ? Does anyone have a reliable, reproducible delay grain?comp that performs as well as an AT delay or LOKI delay? (Beside AT or LOKI) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From bigredbee at gmail.com Sat Jun 20 18:47:13 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:47:13 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did you fly a Bee in that? Was it potted? or stock? -- Greg On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 6:21 PM, wrote: > Max g's 159.40, altitude 18,094'? motor burn time 1.2 sec, with slight tail off to 3.3 sec.? Loss of fin after burn out handicapped?the altitude.? It broke mach at .46 seconds and 310' altitude. > > Special thanks to John Hornsby who assisted re-prep after blowing a charge on the pad and helped with recovery efforts, and Robert and Randy for handling the high waiver requests. > > I have some work to do before BALLS. > > Mike F. > > > Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar > for local deals at your fingertips. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From scott at scottsrockets.com Sat Jun 20 19:08:08 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:08:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp In-Reply-To: <250494.22724.qm@web1211.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <250494.22724.qm@web1211.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <110CD5F3F6254837BAE6D68B35A27204@Mobile2> In this economy gold would be good. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com _____ From: Sam Grado www.pvconly.com [mailto:Sales at pvconly.com] Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:42 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Will you take Iraqi Dinars....???? --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: From: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp To: Sales at pvconly.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 6:35 PM I'll sell you the delay comp I got from Deputy that he stole from Binford, only 1000 dollars.... Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Sales at pvconly.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:45 PM To: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Alright, let me state I have the APCP god spreadsheet of APCP formulations. I have CH Smoke, CP Smoke, CP Smoke Slow, CP Smoke +, T&AJ Smoke. Does anyone have a reliable, reproducible delay grain comp that performs as well as an AT delay or LOKI delay? (Beside AT or LOKI) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- In this economy gold would be good. ? Scott T. Bowers http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com ? ? From: Sam Grado www.pvconly.com [mailto:Sales at pvconly.com] Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:42 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Will you take Iraqi Dinars....???? --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Scott T Bowers wrote: From: Scott T Bowers Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp To: Sales at pvconly.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 6:35 PM I'll sell you the delay comp I got from Deputy that he stole from Binford, only 1000 dollars.... Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Sales at pvconly.com MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Sales at pvconly.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:45 PM To: http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Delay Comp Alright, let me state I have the APCP god spreadsheet of APCP formulations. ? I have CH Smoke, CP Smoke, CP Smoke Slow, CP Smoke +, T&AJ Smoke. ? Does anyone have a reliable, reproducible delay grain?comp that performs as well as an AT delay or LOKI delay? (Beside AT or LOKI) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sat Jun 20 19:18:13 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:18:13 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data Message-ID: Yes, stock except for wrapped with many layers of electrical tape to keep the battery terminal connected, and the antenna inside a coffee stir stick to add some rigidity to keep it from folding up inside the cone. It was out there overnight in the cold too. Mike In a message dated 6/20/2009 6:47:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bigredbee at gmail.com writes: Did you fly a Bee in that? Was it potted? or stock? -- Greg **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- Yes, stock except for wrapped with many layers of electrical tape to keep the battery terminal connected, and the antenna inside a coffee stir stick to add some rigidity to keep it from folding up inside the cone. ? It was out there overnight in the cold too. ? Mike ? In a message dated 6/20/2009 6:47:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bigredbee at gmail.com writes: Did you fly a Bee in that?? Was it potted?? or stock? -- Greg Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat Jun 20 22:58:45 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67ec8c3406576ffb0211e598ff2e2de8.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> One of these days Mike yer gonna find out what happens when you break Mach while still on the rail. :-0 Crimeny, you could win a drag race with a micrograin rocket with that thing! But you do win the prize for best instantly disappearing rocket... +McG+ > Max g's 159.40, altitude 18,094'? motor burn time 1.2 sec, with slight > tail off to 3.3 sec.? Loss of fin after burn out handicapped?the > altitude.? It broke mach at .46 seconds and 310' altitude. > ? > Special thanks to John Hornsby who assisted re-prep after blowing a charge > on the pad and helped with recovery efforts, and Robert and Randy for > handling the high waiver requests. > ? > I have some work to do before BALLS. > ? > Mike F. > ? > ? > Download the > http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > AOL Classifieds Toolbar > for local deals at your fingertips. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bennightfam at hotmail.com Sun Jun 21 07:38:37 2009 From: bennightfam at hotmail.com (C Bennight) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 07:38:37 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data In-Reply-To: <67ec8c3406576ffb0211e598ff2e2de8.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <67ec8c3406576ffb0211e598ff2e2de8.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick up some. Thanks, Mike > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:58:45 -0700 > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > > One of these days Mike yer gonna find out what happens when you break Mach > while still on the rail. :-0 > > Crimeny, you could win a drag race with a micrograin rocket with that thing! > > But you do win the prize for best instantly disappearing rocket... > +McG+ > > > > Max g's 159.40, altitude 18,094' motor burn time 1.2 sec, with slight > > tail off to 3.3 sec. Loss of fin after burn out handicapped the > > altitude. It broke mach at .46 seconds and 310' altitude. > > > > Special thanks to John Hornsby who assisted re-prep after blowing a charge > > on the pad and helped with recovery efforts, and Robert and Randy for > > handling the high waiver requests. > > > > I have some work to do before BALLS. > > > > Mike F. > > > > > > Download the > > http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > > AOL Classifieds Toolbar > > for local deals at your fingertips. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 -------------- next part -------------- I'm kinda new at this and?was wondering the name of the grease used in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick up some. Thanks, Mike ? > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:58:45 -0700 > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > > One of these days Mike yer gonna find out what happens when you break Mach > while still on the rail. :-0 > > Crimeny, you could win a drag race with a micrograin rocket with that thing! > > But you do win the prize for best instantly disappearing rocket... > +McG+ > > > > Max g's 159.40, altitude 18,094'? motor burn time 1.2 sec, with slight > > tail off to 3.3 sec.? Loss of fin after burn out handicapped?the > > altitude.? It broke mach at .46 seconds and 310' altitude. > > ? > > Special thanks to John Hornsby who assisted re-prep after blowing a charge > > on the pad and helped with recovery efforts, and Robert and Randy for > > handling the high waiver requests. > > ? > > I have some work to do before BALLS. > > ? > > Mike F. > > ? > > ? > > Download the > > http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > > AOL Classifieds Toolbar > > for local deals at your fingertips. > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 See how. From jpr602 at mac.com Sun Jun 21 07:53:21 2009 From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 07:53:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data In-Reply-To: References: <67ec8c3406576ffb0211e598ff2e2de8.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <7562EE31-B34E-4F23-883D-24238004EDAE@mac.com> Superlube: http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick > up some. > Thanks, > Mike From dmrandall at gmail.com Sun Jun 21 08:11:49 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:11:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Father's Day Fun Fly Launch reminder In-Reply-To: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net> References: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6bc920e40906210811q695a8503wf2d9f87bcfca7c4e@mail.gmail.com> Although the weather looks a little drippy at the moment, the launch is still on! We may get a sprinkle or two throughout the day, but the blue sky is peeking through the clouds in some spots this morning. Current webcam view of the field is here: http://www.60acres.org/northcamera.html See you on the field, Dave , and the weatherman says only a slight chance of one On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Hammer wrote: > I just wanted to remind those of you in the Seattle area of the Father's > Day Fun Fly launch this Sunday at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 2:00pm. > I look forward to seeing you there. > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From rcdm at outlawnet.com Sun Jun 21 08:42:38 2009 From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:42:38 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data References: <67ec8c3406576ffb0211e598ff2e2de8.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <7562EE31-B34E-4F23-883D-24238004EDAE@mac.com> Message-ID: <7DB238079053470B8C2FCA970D2F4199@DANE> Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. Rod M. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Roberts To: rockets northwest Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data Superlube: http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick > up some. > Thanks, > Mike _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. ? Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. ? Rod M. ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data Superlube: http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used? > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick? > up some. > Thanks, > Mike _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From fred at azinger.com Sun Jun 21 08:44:36 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:44:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Summer Skies Photos..... Message-ID: <025601c9f287$2e4c5130$8ae4f390$@com> I've uploaded a handful of photos taken Friday at the Summer Skies launch to the image gallery at NWRocketry. Weather was WINDY all weekend. Friday we woke to rain which thankfully was brief. Fortunately, the cloud deck broke up Friday to allow some nice flying weather. Saturday was a different story -- woke to a ~3k cloud deck that inhibited high flying for the morning -- started to break up around lunchtime. Lots of nice flights.... Lots of people in attendance. Thanks to OROC for a great launch -- sorry I couldn't stay Sunday. FredA -------------- next part -------------- I've uploaded a handful of photos taken Friday at the Summer Skies launch to the image gallery at NWRocketry. ? Weather was WINDY all weekend. Friday we woke to rain which thankfully was brief. Fortunately, the cloud deck broke up Friday to allow some nice flying weather. Saturday was a different story -- woke to a ~3k cloud deck that inhibited high flying for the morning -- started to break up around lunchtime. Lots of nice flights.... Lots of people in attendance. ? Thanks to OROC for a great launch -- sorry I couldn't stay Sunday. FredA ? From carl at mousetrap.com Sun Jun 21 09:08:43 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:08:43 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease Message-ID: Mike - As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. For hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. Recently, I have been using a high-temperature bearing greasethat I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know swear by Slick 50 grease . - Carl. On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead wrote: > Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. > Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's > instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. > > Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. > > Rod M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > mailto:jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts > To: > mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest > Sent: > Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM > Subject: > Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > Superlube: > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used > > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick > > up some. > > Thanks, > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. For hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. Recently, I have been using a http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=MGO&MfrPartNumber=720&CategoryCode=3249 high-temperature bearing grease that I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know swear by http://www.slick50.com/products/OtherProducts.htm Slick 50 grease . ?- Carl. On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead < mailto:rcdm at outlawnet.com rcdm at outlawnet.com > wrote: Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. ? Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. ? Rod M. ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto: mailto:jpr602 at mac.com jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts To: mailto: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data Superlube: http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used? > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick? > up some. > Thanks, > Mike _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun Jun 21 09:18:09 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 12:18:09 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Summer Skies Photos..... Message-ID: Wow, those are great photos! Looks like the camera is close to the action, but I saw your camera by camp, so I know better. :) If anybody got any photos of my 38mm L rocket including static shots, I'd be glad to have them. Mike F. In a message dated 6/21/2009 8:45:11 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fred at azinger.com writes: I've uploaded a handful of photos taken Friday at the Summer Skies launch to the image gallery at NWRocketry. Weather was WINDY all weekend. Friday we woke to rain which thankfully was brief. Fortunately, the cloud deck broke up Friday to allow some nice flying weather. Saturday was a different story -- woke to a ~3k cloud deck that inhibited high flying for the morning -- started to break up around lunchtime. Lots of nice flights.... Lots of people in attendance. Thanks to OROC for a great launch -- sorry I couldn't stay Sunday. FredA I've uploaded a handful of photos taken Friday at the Summer Skies launch to the image gallery at NWRocketry. Weather was WINDY all weekend. Friday we woke to rain which thankfully was brief. Fortunately, the cloud deck broke up Friday to allow some nice flying weather. Saturday was a different story -- woke to a ~3k cloud deck that inhibited high flying for the morning -- started to break up around lunchtime. Lots of nice flights.... Lots of people in attendance. Thanks to OROC for a great launch -- sorry I couldn't stay Sunday. FredA _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) -------------- next part -------------- Wow, those are great photos!? Looks like the camera is close to the action, but I saw your camera by camp, so I know better.?:) ? If anybody got any photos of my 38mm L rocket including static shots, I'd be glad to have them. ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 6/21/2009 8:45:11 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fred at azinger.com writes: I've uploaded a handful of photos taken Friday at the Summer Skies launch to the image gallery at NWRocketry. Weather was WINDY all weekend. Friday we woke to rain which thankfully was brief. Fortunately, the cloud deck broke up Friday to allow some nice flying weather. Saturday was a different story -- woke to a ~3k cloud deck that inhibited high flying for the morning -- started to break up around lunchtime. Lots of nice flights.... Lots of people in attendance. Thanks to OROC for a great launch -- sorry I couldn't stay Sunday. FredA I've uploaded a handful of photos taken Friday at the Summer Skies launch to the image gallery at NWRocketry. ? Weather was WINDY all weekend. Friday we woke to rain which thankfully was brief. Fortunately, the cloud deck broke up Friday to allow some nice flying weather. Saturday was a different story -- woke to a ~3k cloud deck that inhibited high flying for the morning -- started to break up around lunchtime. Lots of nice flights.... Lots of people in attendance. ? Thanks to OROC for a great launch -- sorry I couldn't stay Sunday. FredA ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. From rcdm at outlawnet.com Sun Jun 21 09:51:56 2009 From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:51:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Summer Skies Photos..... References: <025601c9f287$2e4c5130$8ae4f390$@com> Message-ID: <835D407B49574BC18959D843A653A44D@DANE> Thanks for the photos Fred. I had to pass on this launch. Rod M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Azinger To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Summer Skies Photos..... I've uploaded a handful of photos taken Friday at the Summer Skies launch to the image gallery at NWRocketry. Weather was WINDY all weekend. Friday we woke to rain which thankfully was brief. Fortunately, the cloud deck broke up Friday to allow some nice flying weather. Saturday was a different story -- woke to a ~3k cloud deck that inhibited high flying for the morning -- started to break up around lunchtime. Lots of nice flights.... Lots of people in attendance. Thanks to OROC for a great launch -- sorry I couldn't stay Sunday. FredA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Thanks for the photos Fred. I had to pass on this launch. ? Rod M. ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:fred at azinger.com Fred Azinger To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Summer Skies Photos..... I've uploaded a handful of photos taken Friday at the Summer Skies launch to the image gallery at NWRocketry. ? Weather was WINDY all weekend. Friday we woke to rain which thankfully was brief. Fortunately, the cloud deck broke up Friday to allow some nice flying weather. Saturday was a different story -- woke to a ~3k cloud deck that inhibited high flying for the morning -- started to break up around lunchtime. Lots of nice flights.... Lots of people in attendance. ? Thanks to OROC for a great launch -- sorry I couldn't stay Sunday. FredA ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Sun Jun 21 09:56:39 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:56:39 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090621093748.00c5d468@mail.iinet.com> Concerning the 38mm L that launched on Friday, amid all the technical discussion I would like to add a word form a witness bearing testimony as it were. That launch was spectacular. Absolutely amazing. Not a failed launch by any stretch of the imagination. That was by far the fastest time to height for any rocket I have ever witnessed. True, I have not been to a dozen Balls launches like some of the other rocketeers but I bet they would back me up when I say that certainly one of the fastest, in my case the fastest, rocket acceleration I have ever witnessed (just as an aside I was in the military for a few years and that was faster than anything I ever saw there including Patriots, Std Missiles and MLRS). I would also point out that it did about Mach 3 if I am not mistaken. That's faster than a 44 caliber pistol bullet. And it did it in well under a second. Truly spectacular. It was there on the pad and then by the time you got your head back the smoke trail was very high in the air. So image of the rocket accelerating whatsoever. I am sorry to hear that it lost a fin but one could see that too as it approached the end of the burn the smoke (I do not think anyone ever saw the rocket other than on the pad) it did a single very tight loop high in the sky. Anyway, what a great flight. It was a privilege and a pleasure to have seen it. Also I would say that in the past I have publicly doubted the claims that many of these rocket launches actually pull 100 Gs sustained for any material length of time (>.25 s). I based that assessment on the height the rocket would have to achieve over some time interval. Concerning Mr. Fisher's launch, I have no problem at all believing that the 38 L shot hit something approaching or exceeding 150 Gs peak with something 0ver 100 for > .25s. It was spectacular. Truly a great effort. Thank you very much for flying it at Brothers so people like me had a chance to see it. I appreciate it. From lsagan123 at msn.com Sun Jun 21 10:20:55 2009 From: lsagan123 at msn.com (Ralph Strauser) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 10:20:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question Message-ID: Hello all, I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to disagree on the size of chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12" drogue at apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes would be very cool. Thanks Ralph W. Strauser TRA 006672 -------------- next part -------------- Hello all, I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to disagree on the size of chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12??? drogue at apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes would be very cool. ? Thanks ? Ralph W. Strauser TRA 006672 ? From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Sun Jun 21 12:59:23 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 12:59:23 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Father's Day Fun Fly Launch Early Start Launch Report References: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net> <6bc920e40906210811q695a8503wf2d9f87bcfca7c4e@mail.gmail.com> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B58@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B59@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Hey All, The kids had a great time kicking off the Fathers' Day Fun Fly yesterday afternoon. :-) Weather was gorgeous, high cloud ceiling and almost no winds. All three TARC teams put up their rockets (sans egg payload and not weighted for altitude accuracy--they just wanted to see how high they could put them). Several individual projects and two very old rockets from my youth that have been refurbished were put up to varying degrees of "ohh" and "ahh". A couple of the kids experimented with CHAD staging while I wasn't looking. They learned a valuable lessons about the CM/CP relationship (Attempting to CHAD stage a mosquito--not recommended). Luckily, all it did was turn loop-de-loops in the air above the pad, then bury itself in the ground and kick the motor up into the air when the ejection charge fired. Both the kids and the young lady who RSO'ed it were severely chastized for not checking it out thoroughly with me ahead of time. I debuted a 29mm Art Applewhite Stealth on a G76G motor, and asked my Father in Law--who once worked on the B-2 during its development--to come press the launch button. Very loud, very impressive flight, very cool tumble recovery. Now I have to get me one of the 54mm versions!!! Only one rocket damaged beyond repair (landed hard on the road and looks like it's been through a cuisinart), and only one rocket non-recovered (it's out in the scrub south of the south field, if anyone finds an Estes SkyWriter, it's ours...) Here's hoping the weather's just as good and everyone has as much fun today as we had yesterday! Pete ________________________________________________ On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Hammer wrote: > I just wanted to remind those of you in the Seattle area of the Father's > Day Fun Fly launch this Sunday at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 2:00pm. > I look forward to seeing you there. > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Sun Jun 21 13:27:58 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 13:27:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A3E97CE.1050501@hawkfeather.com> Chute size is not only a factor of mass, but also of construction & toughness. A stubby rocket of Quantum tubing or well fiberglassed with a centering right at the aft can touch down much faster than a rocket with trailing fins, or in my example, a motor tube recessed 1/2 diameter for hybrids. It also depends on the Cd of the parachute. A 60" Rocketman or Skyangle is much more efficient than a 'flat' chute of the same diameter. I've been pretty happy with RockSim for chute calcs, using the low speed setting of 10 fps for delicate rockets and the higher speed setting of 15 fps for rugged birds. And I set the drogue speed for 50-75 fps. An online calculator that's similar to the one in RockSim is at: http://www.onlinetesting.net/cgi-bin/descent3.3.cgi For a 104 oz. rocket I'd recommend an 18" drogue (65 fps) and a 72+" round main or a 60" Skyangle type (13-15 fps). Andrew. Ralph Strauser wrote: > Hello all, > I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to disagree on the size of chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12??? drogue at apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes would be very cool. > > Thanks > > Ralph W. Strauser > TRA 006672 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From greg at bigredbee.com Sun Jun 21 13:37:06 2009 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 13:37:06 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question In-Reply-To: <4A3E97CE.1050501@hawkfeather.com> References: <4A3E97CE.1050501@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: Ralph, I plan to attend the July launch, and can sign your TRA paperwork.. How big is the airframe? You might have difficulty getting a 72" 'chute into your main bay. -- Greg On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Andrew MacMillen wrote: > Chute size is not only a factor of mass, but also of construction & > toughness. A stubby rocket of Quantum tubing or well fiberglassed with a > centering right at the aft can touch down much faster than a rocket with > trailing fins, or in my example, a motor tube recessed 1/2 diameter for > hybrids. It also depends on the Cd of the parachute. A 60" Rocketman or > Skyangle is much more efficient than a 'flat' chute of the same diameter. > > I've been pretty happy with RockSim for chute calcs, using the low speed > ?setting of 10 fps for delicate rockets and the higher speed setting of 15 > fps for rugged birds. And I set the drogue speed for 50-75 fps. > > An online calculator that's similar to the one in RockSim is at: > > http://www.onlinetesting.net/cgi-bin/descent3.3.cgi > > For a 104 oz. rocket I'd recommend an 18" drogue (65 fps) and a 72+" round > main or a 60" Skyangle type (13-15 fps). > > Andrew. > > Ralph Strauser wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the >> appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the >> bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is >> a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to disagree on the size of >> chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting >> estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12?? ?drogue at >> apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the >> answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on >> these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be >> appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes >> would be very cool. >> ?Thanks >> ?Ralph W. Strauser >> TRA 006672 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lsagan123 at msn.com Sun Jun 21 14:43:32 2009 From: lsagan123 at msn.com (Ralph Strauser) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:43:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question In-Reply-To: References: <4A3E97CE.1050501@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: Greg, The rocket is a modified EZI-65. Extended to a total length of 70 inches. Both Drogue and main chute end up with an airspace just over 10 inches long with 3.9 inch loc tubing. I have glassed the fins and airframe so it is pretty sturdy. I am using 1 inch Tubular Nylon for the recovery cord with u-bolts as hard points and quick links as the connectors. RASAero projects ~3200 feet on an I540 and 8500 on a K550. Ralph -----Original Message----- From: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:37 PM To: Andrew MacMillen Cc: Ralph Strauser; Members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] parachute question Ralph, I plan to attend the July launch, and can sign your TRA paperwork.. How big is the airframe? You might have difficulty getting a 72" 'chute into your main bay. -- Greg On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Andrew MacMillen wrote: > Chute size is not only a factor of mass, but also of construction & > toughness. A stubby rocket of Quantum tubing or well fiberglassed with a > centering right at the aft can touch down much faster than a rocket with > trailing fins, or in my example, a motor tube recessed 1/2 diameter for > hybrids. It also depends on the Cd of the parachute. A 60" Rocketman or > Skyangle is much more efficient than a 'flat' chute of the same diameter. > > I've been pretty happy with RockSim for chute calcs, using the low speed > setting of 10 fps for delicate rockets and the higher speed setting of 15 > fps for rugged birds. And I set the drogue speed for 50-75 fps. > > An online calculator that's similar to the one in RockSim is at: > > http://www.onlinetesting.net/cgi-bin/descent3.3.cgi > > For a 104 oz. rocket I'd recommend an 18" drogue (65 fps) and a 72+" round > main or a 60" Skyangle type (13-15 fps). > > Andrew. > > Ralph Strauser wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the >> appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the >> bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is >> a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to disagree on the size of >> chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting >> estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12?? drogue at >> apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the >> answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on >> these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be >> appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes >> would be very cool. >> Thanks >> Ralph W. Strauser >> TRA 006672 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: 06/21/09 05:53:00 From blakbird11 at comcast.net Sun Jun 21 15:13:15 2009 From: blakbird11 at comcast.net (Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net)) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:13:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <505929359.7013541245622395192.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> ----- "Ralph Strauser" wrote: > Hello all, I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to disagree on the size of chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12" drogue at apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes would be very cool. When you are using dual deploy and opening the main at a relatively low altitude, you almost can't have too big a chute provided that it fits into the airframe. I would use a 60" chute for that size. That's what I use for my Black Brant and it fits nicely within the 3.9" airframe if properly folded. Eric Albrecht -------------- next part -------------- ----- "Ralph Strauser" wrote: > Hello all, I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to disagree on the size of chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12" drogue at apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes would be very cool. When you are using dual deploy and opening the main at a relatively low altitude, you almost can't have too big a chute provided that it fits into the airframe.? I would use a 60" chute for that size.? That's what I use for my Black Brant and it fits nicely within the 3.9" airframe if properly folded. Eric Albrecht From dmrandall at gmail.com Sun Jun 21 15:55:59 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:55:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Father's Day Fun Fly Launch Early Start Launch Report In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B59@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net> <6bc920e40906210811q695a8503wf2d9f87bcfca7c4e@mail.gmail.com> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B58@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B59@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <6bc920e40906211555k6bf3c3b4t8b028f113950b4a8@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to all who came out for a very fun Fathers Day launch. Early morning weather appeared somewhat ominous, but by 10 o'clock, the skies were clearing out and the flyers were arriving in earnest. We set up one easy-up for contingency on the weather, but the sun came out and rockets were leaving the pad every few minutes by noon. The launch was very well attended, I would estimate a total of 70 people came throughout the day. Sunny skies, warm weather, lots of rockets and plenty of enthusiasm fueled the launch. The majority of flights were B, C, and D flights - lots of great looking Estes, Aerotech and other model kits flying and staying on the field. We had a few flights that weren't quite to spec, a few spit motors resulted in two or three ballistic returns of some small models, and one two stage that didn't get its 2nd stage lit caused a ballistic recovery on the east end of the field. Lots of loud countdowns by a gaggle of excited kids. We kept nearly 100% of the rockets on the field, with one recovery close to the slough,and another near the South parking lot. A couple of mid power flights took off, some E, F and two G's launched. A H238T took my Art Applewhite 10" saucer up to about 200' really quick surprising most folks at how fast it was. It was great to see and talk with lots of Born Again Rocketeers attending with their sons. A group of Aerojet employees came over to observe how the "not so big" engines are fired. Around 1:30 however, the skies darkened, thunder clapped and the rain turned to hail. We could have called this the "Frozen Thunder" launch all over again! The squall came through for about 45 minutes and several bouts of hail forced everyone to clear the field by 2:30. As for me, I flew my Estes Patriot 24mm on three D12-7's and two E9-8's. My PerfectFlite 15KWD showed flights of 511' and 524' on the D12-7's and 1,115' on the E9-8. I flew the Art Applewhite saucer on an F, a G67 and and H238. Other rockets that remained unflown were a Madcow Patriot and my Estes Honest John Maxi-Brute. Great day on the field, thanks to everyone who attended! Dave On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Schurke, Peter wrote: > > Hey All, > > The kids had a great time kicking off the Fathers' Day Fun Fly yesterday afternoon. ?:-) ?Weather was gorgeous, high cloud ceiling and almost no winds. > > All three TARC teams put up their rockets (sans egg payload and not weighted for altitude accuracy--they just wanted to see how high they could put them). > > Several individual projects and two very old rockets from my youth that have been refurbished were put up to varying degrees of "ohh" and "ahh". > > A couple of the kids experimented with CHAD staging while I wasn't looking. ?They learned a valuable lessons about the CM/CP relationship (Attempting to CHAD stage a mosquito--not recommended). ?Luckily, all it did was turn loop-de-loops in the air above the pad, then bury itself in the ground and kick the motor up into the air when the ejection charge fired. ?Both the kids and the young lady who RSO'ed it were severely chastized for not checking it out thoroughly with me ahead of time. > > I debuted a 29mm Art Applewhite Stealth on a G76G motor, and asked my Father in Law--who once worked on the B-2 during its development--to come press the launch button. ?Very loud, very impressive flight, very cool tumble recovery. ?Now I have to get me one of the 54mm versions!!! > > Only one rocket damaged beyond repair (landed hard on the road and looks like it's been through a cuisinart), and only one rocket non-recovered (it's out in the scrub south of the south field, if anyone finds an Estes SkyWriter, it's ours...) > > Here's hoping the weather's just as good and everyone has as much fun today as we had yesterday! > > Pete > > ________________________________________________ > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 7:18 PM, > Hammer wrote: >> I just wanted to remind those of you in the Seattle area of the Father's >> Day Fun Fly launch this Sunday at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 2:00pm. >> I look forward to seeing you there. >> >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From jjarmitage at earthlink.net Sun Jun 21 17:53:20 2009 From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:53:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question In-Reply-To: <505929359.7013541245622395192.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <505929359.7013541245622395192.JavaMail.root@sz0155a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: For her L2 Cert at FITS, Allyne flew a LOC EZI65 with the standard plywood fins that she had extended to over 7 feet for use with hybrids. She used my 60" flat for the main at 700. There was an 18" drouge, but the split ring I gave her was a little light so it came in drogue-less. Loaded, Pre-launch weight was 7+ lbs. Recovery was fine. The only caution I would offer is that the LOC tubing is very thin, some form of zipper prevention is advisable. Your cert flight is not the time to open your zipper... john -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Eric Albrecht (blakbird11%40comcast.net) Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 3:13 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] parachute question ----- "Ralph Strauser" wrote: > Hello all, I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to disagree on the size of chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12" drogue at apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes would be very cool. When you are using dual deploy and opening the main at a relatively low altitude, you almost can't have too big a chute provided that it fits into the airframe. I would use a 60" chute for that size. That's what I use for my Black Brant and it fits nicely within the 3.9" airframe if properly folded. Eric Albrecht From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Sun Jun 21 18:05:44 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:05:44 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] beter late than never - FITS2009 web pages posted Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20991480FE@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/FITS-2009.htm Cheers! Brad -------------- next part -------------- http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/FITS-2009.htm http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/FITS-2009.htm ? Cheers! Brad ? From clappfamily at comcast.net Sun Jun 21 21:33:24 2009 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (ClappFamily) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:33:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Steve Cutonilli N4000 Flight at Summer Skies References: <025601c9f287$2e4c5130$8ae4f390$@com> Message-ID: I've just uploaded Steve Cutonilli's N4000 flight on Friday from the Away Pad at Brothers. For a large rocket it wasted no time leaving the pad. I was very happy to get this one liftoff shot! Steve can fill everyone in on the flight. Enjoy Rick Please note it is a large image. From brodwcjj at integrity.com Sun Jun 21 22:13:36 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 00:13:36 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Brothers Flights ....... Double Wow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090622001336.19403j1g2bg18co4@wm.integrity.com> I enjoyed Summer Skies many great flights. There were two flights that will stick in my memory for a long time. Mike's 38mm L on Friday and Vern & Kate's Angelfire on Saturday. Each one by itself would have made the drive out worth it. I was surprised to see Mike's rocket's ascent. I expected to crack a neck vertebrae and see nothing but a smoke trail. Somehow I did see it ascend and disappear. I must have anticipated and looked up before it took off. I even saw the flame. It was unlike any launch I've seen, almost ethereal. Angular size shrinking to nothing in a blink of time but that moment seemed to be stretched out to appreciate details. It reminds me of when I went down on my motorcycle at ~50mph. Everything went into a sense of slo-mo (kind of Matrix-like) I'm super glad to have made it in time to see this first. Then Vern's flight of Angelfire. Being able to watch the flight visually while listening to the telemetry announcements by Kate was amazing. Instant updates of each 1000 foot elevation gain gave me greater appreciation of what high power flights are achieving. I love it when something moves me from knowing science to feeling it. Both of these flights did that for me. Dustin BAR-NAR-L2 From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sun Jun 21 23:12:48 2009 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:12:48 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] Steve Cutonilli N4000 Flight at Summer Skies Message-ID: <4186908.1245651168444.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Great photo Rick - thanks. The rocket was built by Alex McLaughlin thus the "Salute to Alex" name placed on the flight card. When time allows, I can crunch the numbers, but my gut says it was a full M based on flight results - 15.5K AGL Baro, burntime spot-on 2.5-seconds. This flight was intended to test an Ozark telemetry syetem which worked perfectly once I overcame some setup woes. I really appreciate the prep / recovery support from Roy, Mike, Jerry and his son James. /Steve -----Original Message----- >From: ClappFamily >Sent: Jun 21, 2009 9:33 PM >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Cc: Steve Cutonilli >Subject: Steve Cutonilli N4000 Flight at Summer Skies > >I've just uploaded Steve Cutonilli's N4000 flight on Friday from the Away >Pad at Brothers. > >For a large rocket it wasted no time leaving the pad. I was very happy to >get this one liftoff shot! > >Steve can fill everyone in on the flight. > >Enjoy >Rick > >Please note it is a large image. > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun Jun 21 23:28:30 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For the original poster, with AP reloads almost any grease will allow you to assemble the motor correctly. Nose oil has been used. But some lubricants are much better at making disassembly much easier. +McG+ > As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. > For hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. > Recently, I have been using a > http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=MGO&MfrPartNumber=720&CategoryCode=3249 > high-temperature bearing grease > that I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know > swear by http://www.slick50.com/products/OtherProducts.htm Slick 50 grease > . > ??- Carl. > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead > < mailto:rcdm at outlawnet.com rcdm at outlawnet.com >> > wrote: > Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. > Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's > instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. > ?? > Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. > ?? > Rod M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > mailto: mailto:jpr602 at mac.com jpr602 at mac.com > John Roberts > To: > mailto: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > rockets northwest > Sent: > Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM > Subject: > Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > Superlube: > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: >> I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used?? >> in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick?? >> up some. >> Thanks, >> Mike > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto: mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ?? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ?? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From sb at berfield.com Sun Jun 21 23:37:41 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:37:41 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <949BBF4C-3471-4BC8-BB82-90E7406D0AD2@berfield.com> I think those stats deserve a "holy crap!!" Sent from my iPod On Jun 20, 2009, at 6:21 PM, Mfreptiles at aol.com wrote: > Max g's 159.40, altitude 18,094' motor burn time 1.2 sec, with > slight tail off to 3.3 sec. Loss of fin after burn out handicapped > the altitude. It broke mach at .46 seconds and 310' altitude. > > Special thanks to John Hornsby who assisted re-prep after blowing a > charge on the pad and helped with recovery efforts, and Robert and > Randy for handling the high waiver requests. > > I have some work to do before BALLS. > > Mike F. > > > Download the http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004 > AOL Classifieds Toolbar > for local deals at your fingertips. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon Jun 22 00:09:42 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 00:09:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Chemical question Message-ID: Rocket-related question but not obviously so: Any chemist types on the list have experience working with a solvent commonly referred to as "diglyme?" Please respond off-list. Thanks. +McG+ From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 22 09:22:01 2009 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:22:01 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wrote a couple parachute calculators several years ago. The calculators do not attempt to figure the Sky Angle type chute sizing but I have had pretty good results with both Hemispherical and Flat parachutes. One calculator will give you the parachute size to use for a given weight and descent rate, the other will give you the descent rate given the weight and drogue and main parachute sizes. http://www.rockethead.net/descent_rate.htm http://www.rockethead.net/parachute_size.htm -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ralph Strauser" Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:20 AM To: ; Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question > Hello all, > > I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that > there will be the appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am > pretty > confident of the bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to > recovery the plan is a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to > disagree on the size of chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at > ~6.5 > lbs I am getting estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use > a > 12" drogue at apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the > disparity of the answers I am getting via software I thought I would check > with the folks on these lists who have more practical experience. Any > guidance would be appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly > accurate for chutes would be very cool. > > > > Thanks > > > > Ralph W. Strauser > > TRA 006672 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From fred.azinger at intel.com Mon Jun 22 09:30:10 2009 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:30:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My local NAPA dealer was my source for the Slick-50 Lube which is my preferred lube. I went to restock for this seasons flying. It is not something they stocked, but they could order a case through their distribution for me. However, this year they failed me.....they can no longer source the Slick-50 grease, just the spray lube. I made a last minute purchase of SuperLube as a substitute. I like it too, but would still like to get some Slick-50 for larger motors as I like that better for hotter loads. Anyone know a Portland source, please let me know. For K's and lower, the easier to get Super Lube is my recommendation. FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:09 AM To: C Bennight Cc: rockets northwest Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease Mike - As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. For hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. Recently, I have been using a high-temperature bearing greasethat I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know swear by Slick 50 grease . - Carl. On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead wrote: > Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. > Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's > instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. > > Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. > > Rod M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > mailto:jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts > To: > mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest > Sent: > Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM > Subject: > Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > Superlube: > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used > > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick > > up some. > > Thanks, > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From winningstad at comcast.net Mon Jun 22 09:45:01 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:45:01 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Duuuuuuuuuuuuude...I mean DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!! http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=slick+50+grease&tag=googhydr-20&in dex=aps&hvadid=1098087521&ref=pd_sl_8ykgeuobh7_e Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Azinger, Fred Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:30 AM To: Carl Hamilton; C Bennight Cc: rockets northwest Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease My local NAPA dealer was my source for the Slick-50 Lube which is my preferred lube. I went to restock for this seasons flying. It is not something they stocked, but they could order a case through their distribution for me. However, this year they failed me.....they can no longer source the Slick-50 grease, just the spray lube. I made a last minute purchase of SuperLube as a substitute. I like it too, but would still like to get some Slick-50 for larger motors as I like that better for hotter loads. Anyone know a Portland source, please let me know. For K's and lower, the easier to get Super Lube is my recommendation. FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:09 AM To: C Bennight Cc: rockets northwest Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease Mike - As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. For hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. Recently, I have been using a high-temperature bearing greasethat I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know swear by Slick 50 grease . - Carl. On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead wrote: > Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. > Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's > instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. > > Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. > > Rod M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > mailto:jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts > To: > mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest > Sent: > Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM > Subject: > Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > Superlube: > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used > > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick > > up some. > > Thanks, > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From krislhull at comcast.net Mon Jun 22 09:59:33 2009 From: krislhull at comcast.net (Kristopher Hull) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:59:33 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c9f35a$d1935630$74ba0290$@net> Has anyone had any luck using DC4? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:45 AM To: 'Azinger, Fred' Cc: 'rockets northwest' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease Duuuuuuuuuuuuude...I mean DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!! http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=slick+50+grease&tag=googhydr-20&in dex=aps&hvadid=1098087521&ref=pd_sl_8ykgeuobh7_e Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Azinger, Fred Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:30 AM To: Carl Hamilton; C Bennight Cc: rockets northwest Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease My local NAPA dealer was my source for the Slick-50 Lube which is my preferred lube. I went to restock for this seasons flying. It is not something they stocked, but they could order a case through their distribution for me. However, this year they failed me.....they can no longer source the Slick-50 grease, just the spray lube. I made a last minute purchase of SuperLube as a substitute. I like it too, but would still like to get some Slick-50 for larger motors as I like that better for hotter loads. Anyone know a Portland source, please let me know. For K's and lower, the easier to get Super Lube is my recommendation. FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:09 AM To: C Bennight Cc: rockets northwest Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease Mike - As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. For hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. Recently, I have been using a high-temperature bearing greasethat I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know swear by Slick 50 grease . - Carl. On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead wrote: > Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. > Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's > instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. > > Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. > > Rod M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > mailto:jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts > To: > mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest > Sent: > Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM > Subject: > Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > Superlube: > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used > > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick > > up some. > > Thanks, > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bennightfam at hotmail.com Mon Jun 22 10:21:23 2009 From: bennightfam at hotmail.com (C Bennight) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:21:23 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease In-Reply-To: <000301c9f35a$d1935630$74ba0290$@net> References: <000301c9f35a$d1935630$74ba0290$@net> Message-ID: Thanks for the help. I ended up getting a silicone based grease rated to 400 degrees that worked pretty well. I'll try Slick 50 when this runs out. Mike Bennight > From: krislhull at comcast.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:59:33 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease > > Has anyone had any luck using DC4? > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:45 AM > To: 'Azinger, Fred' > Cc: 'rockets northwest' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease > > Duuuuuuuuuuuuude...I mean DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!! > > http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=slick+50+grease&tag=googhydr-20&in > dex=aps&hvadid=1098087521&ref=pd_sl_8ykgeuobh7_e > > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Azinger, Fred > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:30 AM > To: Carl Hamilton; C Bennight > Cc: rockets northwest > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease > > My local NAPA dealer was my source for the Slick-50 Lube which is my > preferred lube. > I went to restock for this seasons flying. > It is not something they stocked, but they could order a case through their > distribution for me. > However, this year they failed me.....they can no longer source the Slick-50 > grease, just the spray lube. > I made a last minute purchase of SuperLube as a substitute. > I like it too, but would still like to get some Slick-50 for larger motors > as I like that better for hotter loads. > Anyone know a Portland source, please let me know. > > For K's and lower, the easier to get Super Lube is my recommendation. > FredA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:09 AM > To: C Bennight > Cc: rockets northwest > Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease > > Mike - > As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. For > hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. > > Recently, I have been using a high-temperature bearing > grease ber=720&CategoryCode=3249>that > I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know > swear by Slick 50 grease > . > > - Carl. > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead wrote: > > > Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. > > Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's > > instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. > > > > Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. > > > > Rod M. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > mailto:jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts > > To: > > mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest > > Sent: > > Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM > > Subject: > > Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > > Superlube: > > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > > On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > > > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used > > > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick > > > up some. > > > Thanks, > > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 -------------- next part -------------- Thanks for the help. I ended up getting a silicone based grease rated to 400 degrees that worked pretty well. I'll try?Slick 50 when this runs out. ? Mike Bennight ? > From: krislhull at comcast.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:59:33 -0700 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease > > Has anyone had any luck using DC4? > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:45 AM > To: 'Azinger, Fred' > Cc: 'rockets northwest' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease > > Duuuuuuuuuuuuude...I mean DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!! > > http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=slick+50+grease&tag=googhydr-20&in > dex=aps&hvadid=1098087521&ref=pd_sl_8ykgeuobh7_e > > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Azinger, Fred > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:30 AM > To: Carl Hamilton; C Bennight > Cc: rockets northwest > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease > > My local NAPA dealer was my source for the Slick-50 Lube which is my > preferred lube. > I went to restock for this seasons flying. > It is not something they stocked, but they could order a case through their > distribution for me. > However, this year they failed me.....they can no longer source the Slick-50 > grease, just the spray lube. > I made a last minute purchase of SuperLube as a substitute. > I like it too, but would still like to get some Slick-50 for larger motors > as I like that better for hotter loads. > Anyone know a Portland source, please let me know. > > For K's and lower, the easier to get Super Lube is my recommendation. > FredA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:09 AM > To: C Bennight > Cc: rockets northwest > Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease > > Mike - > As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. For > hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. > > Recently, I have been using a high-temperature bearing > grease ber=720&CategoryCode=3249>that > I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know > swear by Slick 50 grease > . > > - Carl. > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead wrote: > > > Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. > > Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's > > instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. > > > > Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. > > > > Rod M. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > mailto:jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts > > To: > > mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest > > Sent: > > Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM > > Subject: > > Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > > Superlube: > > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > > On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > > > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used > > > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick > > > up some. > > > Thanks, > > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > Lauren found her dream laptop. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 Find the PC that?s right for you. From steve at bestmortgage.com Mon Jun 22 10:30:19 2009 From: steve at bestmortgage.com (Steve Tytler) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:30:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Father's Day Fun Fly Launch Early Start LaunchReport In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40906211555k6bf3c3b4t8b028f113950b4a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A3AF587.9090700@earthlink.net><6bc920e40906210811q695a8503wf2d9f87bcfca7c4e@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B58@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9B59@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <6bc920e40906211555k6bf3c3b4t8b028f113950b4a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <053f01c9f35f$1de55020$6501a8c0@HDNW1> Thanks to everybody who organized the launch! Despite the fact that two of my rockets became lawn darts, I had a great time at 60 acres yesterday (except for the rain) and I hope somebody organizes another launch this summer. Let's hope for better weather next time. Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 3:56 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Father's Day Fun Fly Launch Early Start LaunchReport Thanks to all who came out for a very fun Fathers Day launch. Early morning weather appeared somewhat ominous, but by 10 o'clock, the skies were clearing out and the flyers were arriving in earnest. We set up one easy-up for contingency on the weather, but the sun came out and rockets were leaving the pad every few minutes by noon. The launch was very well attended, I would estimate a total of 70 people came throughout the day. Sunny skies, warm weather, lots of rockets and plenty of enthusiasm fueled the launch. The majority of flights were B, C, and D flights - lots of great looking Estes, Aerotech and other model kits flying and staying on the field. We had a few flights that weren't quite to spec, a few spit motors resulted in two or three ballistic returns of some small models, and one two stage that didn't get its 2nd stage lit caused a ballistic recovery on the east end of the field. Lots of loud countdowns by a gaggle of excited kids. We kept nearly 100% of the rockets on the field, with one recovery close to the slough,and another near the South parking lot. A couple of mid power flights took off, some E, F and two G's launched. A H238T took my Art Applewhite 10" saucer up to about 200' really quick surprising most folks at how fast it was. It was great to see and talk with lots of Born Again Rocketeers attending with their sons. A group of Aerojet employees came over to observe how the "not so big" engines are fired. Around 1:30 however, the skies darkened, thunder clapped and the rain turned to hail. We could have called this the "Frozen Thunder" launch all over again! The squall came through for about 45 minutes and several bouts of hail forced everyone to clear the field by 2:30. As for me, I flew my Estes Patriot 24mm on three D12-7's and two E9-8's. My PerfectFlite 15KWD showed flights of 511' and 524' on the D12-7's and 1,115' on the E9-8. I flew the Art Applewhite saucer on an F, a G67 and and H238. Other rockets that remained unflown were a Madcow Patriot and my Estes Honest John Maxi-Brute. Great day on the field, thanks to everyone who attended! Dave On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Schurke, Peter wrote: > > Hey All, > > The kids had a great time kicking off the Fathers' Day Fun Fly yesterday afternoon. ?:-) ?Weather was gorgeous, high cloud ceiling and almost no winds. > > All three TARC teams put up their rockets (sans egg payload and not weighted for altitude accuracy--they just wanted to see how high they could put them). > > Several individual projects and two very old rockets from my youth that have been refurbished were put up to varying degrees of "ohh" and "ahh". > > A couple of the kids experimented with CHAD staging while I wasn't looking. ?They learned a valuable lessons about the CM/CP relationship (Attempting to CHAD stage a mosquito--not recommended). ?Luckily, all it did was turn loop-de-loops in the air above the pad, then bury itself in the ground and kick the motor up into the air when the ejection charge fired. ?Both the kids and the young lady who RSO'ed it were severely chastized for not checking it out thoroughly with me ahead of time. > > I debuted a 29mm Art Applewhite Stealth on a G76G motor, and asked my Father in Law--who once worked on the B-2 during its development--to come press the launch button. ?Very loud, very impressive flight, very cool tumble recovery. ?Now I have to get me one of the 54mm versions!!! > > Only one rocket damaged beyond repair (landed hard on the road and > looks like it's been through a cuisinart), and only one rocket > non-recovered (it's out in the scrub south of the south field, if > anyone finds an Estes SkyWriter, it's ours...) > > Here's hoping the weather's just as good and everyone has as much fun today as we had yesterday! > > Pete > > ________________________________________________ > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 7:18 PM, > Hammer wrote: >> I just wanted to remind those of you in the Seattle area of the >> Father's Day Fun Fly launch this Sunday at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 2:00pm. >> I look forward to seeing you there. >> >> Robert >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Mon Jun 22 11:29:32 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:29:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AERO TECH 54MM 2800 MOTOR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090622112310.03871d30@mail.iinet.com> Does anyone out there have one of the Rouse Tech 54mm 2800 motor cases with the regular (as in not the extended) plugged, threaded forward closures? If so I was wondering if you might be so kind as to please measure the overall length of the assembled motor for me and let me know. The specs say it's 25.62 inches long give or take but the Thrust Curve data file has it at about 26.75 inches long. I am designing a new rocket and as it sits right now if it's 25 inches and change then it will fit but if it's 26 inches and change then it won't. As always a very tight build. If anyone out there could help me out I would be greatly appreciative. Thank you in advance. From jim at jmw29221.com Mon Jun 22 11:57:26 2009 From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:57:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fathers' Day launch Message-ID: <151a429ae9a0a81feb20b621018c6874@mx1.blastzone.com> Greetings all - just wanted to thank Dave Randall, Greg Wilson and George (probably Crist?) who welcomed my Boeing colleague Ted Grady and his sons at the launch. They had a lot of fun. Thanks again. Regards Jim From willey at selby.com Mon Jun 22 11:52:32 2009 From: willey at selby.com (Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:52:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube Message-ID: Does anyone here hav any experience with using Blue Tube for rocket airframes? http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/bluetube.html Does anyone know what it _is_ (yes, i know it's something wound onto a mandrel and used in tank shells, yipee). The website says what it's not (cured phenolic, flexible phenolic, etc.) but not what it is. While we're talk'n tubing does anyone hav a good comparison of convolute phenolic v. 'normal' phenolic (i.e. PML phenolic). The article http://www.info-central.org/?article=176 doesn't penetrate my thick skull. thanks, steve From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Mon Jun 22 13:59:30 2009 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:59:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. In-Reply-To: <1245635299.9742.44.camel@aiko.keithp.com> References: <1b798faf-60f7-4406-84ed-907640e59d72@stex.net> <1245635299.9742.44.camel@aiko.keithp.com> Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368828687FFA4A@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> MIA #1 Bob Grossfield, your Thug was found about 2500' East of the flight line. It's in reasonable shape and could be made flight worthy with a little effort. It's in the club trailer at this time. MIA #2 PML IO, Nicely constructed, rail buttons, primer white. Looks like it went MIA during the may launch based on fading of the parachute. It's in ready to fly condition and is in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. It was found about 2000' SE of the flight line. MIA #3 Looks to be a Performance Rocketry 4" Nike Smoke that is built and finished so nice I'd show it off as my own. Based on the condition of the parachute, I'd say it went MIA in 2008 or earlier. Replace the parachute (with a smaller one) and it should be ready for action. It was found about 3000' SE of the flight line. This rocket is also in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. I'll get pictures of MIA #2 and MIA #3 on the NW Rocketry website later today. John -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org [mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org] On Behalf Of Keith Packard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:48 PM To: Randy Steck Cc: 'Members Oroc' Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Unrecovered rocket On Sun, 2009-06-21 at 18:39 -0700, Randy Steck wrote: > We were keeping an eye out for Keith's rocket as well as ours, and > with 8 people we covered a lot of ground both to the west and south of > the flight line (I estimate a 1.5 miles west and 1 mile south). No > joy on any rocket or rocket parts, which surprised us. Oh, I thought you guys were north of the flight line. Did anyone search up in that area? It seems improbable to me, but as we failed to find anything on the south side... > So, I guess we have two rockets at large that both look similar. Fred > got a picture of ours and it's posted at > http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/DSC_5856-small.jpg. Bob Welsh also lost a rocket out in that direction, I think it's white/green. Lots of unhappy faces out there today. -- keith.packard at intel.com From absworld at cet.com Mon Jun 22 13:58:15 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:58:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01df01c9f37c$29afc850$7d0f58f0$@com> Try your local Walmart. Ours over this-a-way (eastern WA) stocks the Slick-50 grease. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Azinger, Fred Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:30 AM To: Carl Hamilton; C Bennight Cc: rockets northwest Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease My local NAPA dealer was my source for the Slick-50 Lube which is my preferred lube. I went to restock for this seasons flying. It is not something they stocked, but they could order a case through their distribution for me. However, this year they failed me.....they can no longer source the Slick-50 grease, just the spray lube. I made a last minute purchase of SuperLube as a substitute. I like it too, but would still like to get some Slick-50 for larger motors as I like that better for hotter loads. Anyone know a Portland source, please let me know. For K's and lower, the easier to get Super Lube is my recommendation. FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:09 AM To: C Bennight Cc: rockets northwest Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease Mike - As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. For hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. Recently, I have been using a high-temperature bearing greasethat I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know swear by Slick 50 grease . - Carl. On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead wrote: > Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. > Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's > instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. > > Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. > > Rod M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > mailto:jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts > To: > mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest > Sent: > Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM > Subject: > Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data > Superlube: > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI > On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: > > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used > > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick > > up some. > > Thanks, > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.87/2195 - Release Date: 06/22/09 06:54:00 From jim at jmw29221.com Mon Jun 22 14:01:45 2009 From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:01:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease In-Reply-To: <01df01c9f37c$29afc850$7d0f58f0$@com> References: <01df01c9f37c$29afc850$7d0f58f0$@com> Message-ID: <092eeed1d5bd881c6e2be92036dfec22@mx1.blastzone.com> Most auto parts stores (Pep Boys, etc) on the west side as well. Regards Jim On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:58:15 -0700, "Bob & Ann Yanecek" wrote: > Try your local Walmart. > Ours over this-a-way (eastern WA) stocks the Slick-50 grease. > > Bob Yanecek > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Azinger, Fred > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:30 AM > To: Carl Hamilton; C Bennight > Cc: rockets northwest > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Grease > > My local NAPA dealer was my source for the Slick-50 Lube which is my > preferred lube. > I went to restock for this seasons flying. > It is not something they stocked, but they could order a case through their > distribution for me. > However, this year they failed me.....they can no longer source the > Slick-50 > grease, just the spray lube. > I made a last minute purchase of SuperLube as a substitute. > I like it too, but would still like to get some Slick-50 for larger motors > as I like that better for hotter loads. > Anyone know a Portland source, please let me know. > > For K's and lower, the easier to get Super Lube is my recommendation. > FredA > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:09 AM > To: C Bennight > Cc: rockets northwest > Subject: [RocketsNW] Grease > > Mike - > As Rod points out, just about any light grease will work for AP reloads. > For > hybrids, you are supposed to use an oxygen-safe grease, like Krytox. > > Recently, I have been using a high-temperature bearing > grease ber=720&CategoryCode=3249>that > I picked up at Schuck's in Redmond with good success. Others I know > swear by Slick 50 grease > > . > > - Carl. > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Moorehead wrote: > >> Superlube is great, if you can't find it any light grease will work. >> Especially on the size motors you'll be flying at 60 acres. Aerotech's >> instruction sheets used to say you could use Vaseline. >> >> Chances are someone at the launch will have a little you could use. >> >> Rod M. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> mailto:jpr602 at mac.com John Roberts >> To: >> mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest >> Sent: >> Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:53 AM >> Subject: >> Re: [RocketsNW] 38mm L flight data >> Superlube: >> http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI >> http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Synthetic-Grease-21030/dp/B000XBH9HI >> On Jun 21, 2009, at 7:38 AM, C Bennight wrote: >> > I'm kinda new at this and was wondering the name of the grease used >> > in reloads. I'll be heading out to 60 acres today and need to pick >> > up some. >> > Thanks, >> > Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From mfreptiles at aol.com Mon Jun 22 14:39:26 2009 From: mfreptiles at aol.com (mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:39:26 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBC1990CCDD6B1-11C8-415@WEBMAIL-DC17.sysops.aol.com> Yes, the 38mm L flight used a piece for the fin can.? It's really strong tough stuff.? I've got some leftover 38mm.? I do know what the material is because I'm very familiar with all types of paper tubing, but they are trying to keep that a secret.?They donated a piece of tubing for my testing so I feel obligated to not disclose that. Awesome for 99 percent of rocketry use, not so good with multiple mach numbers and high motor heat. Mike F. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:52 am Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube Does anyone here hav any experience with using Blue Tube for rocket airframes? http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/bluetube.html Does anyone know what it _is_ (yes, i know it's something wound onto a mandrel and used in tank shells, yipee). The website says what it's not (cured phenolic, flexible phenolic, etc.) but not what it is. While we're talk'n tubing does anyone hav a good comparison of convolute phenolic v. 'normal' phenolic (i.e. PML phenolic). The article http://www.info-central.org/?article=176 doesn't penetrate my thick skull. thanks, steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Awesome for 99 percent of rocketry use, not so good with multiple mach numbers and high motor heat. Mike F. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:52 am Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube Does anyone here hav any experience with using Blue Tube for rocket airframes? [A] http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/bluetube.html Does anyone know what it _is_ (yes, i know it's something wound onto a mandrel and used in tank shells, yipee). The website says what it's not (cured phenolic, flexible phenolic, etc.) but not what it is. While we're talk'n tubing does anyone hav a good comparison of convolute phenolic v. 'normal' phenolic (i.e. PML phenolic). The article [A] http://www.info-central.org/?article=176 doesn't penetrate my thick skull. thanks, steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list [A] Rockets at rocketsnw.com [A] http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000037 get the Green Toolbar . From holdencurrency at comcast.net Mon Jun 22 15:16:16 2009 From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:16:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! In-Reply-To: <2130583679.4210321245708847844.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1273706798.4211471245708976598.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Chris Here from Holdens hobbies,?? ( www.holdenshobbies.com ) ?????? Yes, I got my first chance to see the product at FITZ. and I was verry impressed.?? I've been doing some research and found the product way better than phenolic for strength & durability. I've been using phenolic for years and found the product strong but brittle. If a phenolic rocket thats??leaning against a table falls and hits the ground with any force its likely to break. Not so with blue tube. ?????? I like the product so much that I've expanded my rocketry to include parts for scratch builders. My first shipment of blue tube will be in Auburn WA. by next week & I'll be listed on the website as an authorized dealer ?? tomorrow!!!!???? I have a PDF that lists the s pecks on blue tube ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen S. Willey s Mats Mats" willey at selby.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:52:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube Does anyone here hav any experience with using Blue Tube for rocket ?? airframes? http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/bluetube.html Does anyone know what it _is_ (yes, i know it's something wound onto a ?? mandrel and used in tank shells, yipee). ??The website says what it's ?? not (cured phenolic, flexible phenolic, etc.) but not what it is. While we're talk'n tubing does anyone hav a good comparison of ?? convolute phenolic v. 'normal' phenolic (i.e. PML phenolic). ??The ?? article http://www.info-central.org/?article=176 doesn't penetrate my ?? thick skull. thanks, steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ???? -------------- next part -------------- Chris Here from Holdens hobbies,? ( http://www.holdenshobbies.com/ www.holdenshobbies.com ) ? ??? Yes, I got my first chance to see the product at FITZ. and I was verry impressed.? I've been doing some research and found the product way better than phenolic for strength & durability. I've been using phenolic for years and found the product strong but brittle. If a phenolic rocket thats?leaning against a table falls and hits the ground with any force its likely to break. Not so with blue tube. ? ??? I like the product so much that I've expanded my rocketry to include parts for scratch builders. My first shipment of blue tube will be in Auburn WA. by next week & I'll be listed on the website as an authorized dealer?tomorrow!!!!?? I have a PDF that lists the specks on blue tube ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen S. Willey s Mats Mats" mailto:willey at selby.com willey at selby.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:52:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube Does anyone here hav any experience with using Blue Tube for rocket ? airframes? http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/bluetube.html Does anyone know what it _is_ (yes, i know it's something wound onto a ? mandrel and used in tank shells, yipee). ?The website says what it's ? not (cured phenolic, flexible phenolic, etc.) but not what it is. While we're talk'n tubing does anyone hav a good comparison of ? convolute phenolic v. 'normal' phenolic (i.e. PML phenolic). ?The ? article http://www.info-central.org/?article=176 doesn't penetrate my ? thick skull. thanks, steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From holdencurrency at comcast.net Mon Jun 22 15:19:13 2009 From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:19:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! In-Reply-To: <1273706798.4211471245708976598.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <256693977.4212991245709153150.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Call me or send me an email if you have any more questions.???? Apyro4hire at comcast.net ?????? =???????? 253-961-3095 Best Regards, Chris Holden ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Holden" To: "Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:16:16 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! Chris Here from Holdens hobbies,?? ( www.holdenshobbies.com ) ?????? Yes, I got my first chance to see the product at FITZ. and I was verry impressed.?? I've been doing some research and found the product way better than phenolic for strength & durability. I've been using phenolic for years and found the product strong but brittle. If a phenolic rocket thats??leaning against a table falls and hits the ground with any force its likely to break. Not so with blue tube. ?????? I like the product so much that I've expanded my rocketry to include parts for scratch builders. My first shipment of blue tube will be in Auburn WA. by next week & I'll be listed on the website as an authorized dealer ?? tomorrow!!!!???? I have a PDF that lists the s pecks on blue tube ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen S. Willey s Mats Mats" willey at selby.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:52:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube Does anyone here hav any experience with using Blue Tube for rocket ?? airframes? http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/bluetube.html Does anyone know what it _is_ (yes, i know it's something wound onto a ?? mandrel and used in tank shells, yipee). ??The website says what it's ?? not (cured phenolic, flexible phenolic, etc.) but not what it is. While we're talk'n tubing does anyone hav a good comparison of ?? convolute phenolic v. 'normal' phenolic (i.e. PML phenolic). ??The ?? article http://www.info-central.org/?article=176 doesn't penetrate my ?? thick skull. thanks, steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ???? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Call me or send me an email if you have any more questions.?? mailto:Apyro4hire at comcast.net Apyro4hire at comcast.net ??? =???? 253-961-3095 ? Best Regards, Chris Holden ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Holden" To: "Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:16:16 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! Chris Here from Holdens hobbies,? ( www.holdenshobbies.com ) ??? Yes, I got my first chance to see the product at FITZ. and I was verry impressed.? I've been doing some research and found the product way better than phenolic for strength & durability. I've been using phenolic for years and found the product strong but brittle. If a phenolic rocket thats?leaning against a table falls and hits the ground with any force its likely to break. Not so with blue tube. ??? I like the product so much that I've expanded my rocketry to include parts for scratch builders. My first shipment of blue tube will be in Auburn WA. by next week & I'll be listed on the website as an authorized dealer ? tomorrow!!!!?? I have a PDF that lists the s pecks on blue tube ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen S. Willey s Mats Mats" willey at selby.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:52:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube Does anyone here hav any experience with using Blue Tube for rocket ? airframes? http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/bluetube.html Does anyone know what it _is_ (yes, i know it's something wound onto a ? mandrel and used in tank shells, yipee). ?The website says what it's ? not (cured phenolic, flexible phenolic, etc.) but not what it is. While we're talk'n tubing does anyone hav a good comparison of ? convolute phenolic v. 'normal' phenolic (i.e. PML phenolic). ?The ? article http://www.info-central.org/?article=176 doesn't penetrate my ? thick skull. thanks, steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jjcllc03 at aol.com Mon Jun 22 15:54:40 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:40 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368828687FFA4A@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <1b798faf-60f7-4406-84ed-907640e59d72@stex.net><1245635299.9742.44.camel@aiko.keithp.com> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368828687FFA4A@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <8CBC1A38F502D7A-16FC-1EE3@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com> Hi John, Jack Caynon, here.? The MIA #3 is mine.? I lost it last October in the snow.? Please ship it to me at 1620 Gemma St. NW, Salem, OR? 97304 and I will pay you for the shipping costs and your trouble.??To satisfy my curiousity, who found the rocket?? I would love to thank them as well.? Thanks! Jack? -----Original Message----- From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:59 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. MIA #1 Bob Grossfield, your Thug was found about 2500' East of the flight line. It's in reasonable shape and could be made flight worthy with a little effort. It's in the club trailer at this time. MIA #2 PML IO, Nicely constructed, rail buttons, primer white. Looks like it went MIA during the may launch based on fading of the parachute. It's in ready to fly condition and is in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. It was found about 2000' SE of the flight line. MIA #3 Looks to be a Performance Rocketry 4" Nike Smoke that is built and finished so nice I'd show it off as my own. Based on the condition of the parachute, I'd say it went MIA in 2008 or earlier. Replace the parachute (with a smaller one) and it should be ready for action. It was found about 3000' SE of the flight line. This rocket is also in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. I'll get pictures of MIA #2 and MIA #3 on the NW Rocketry website later today. John -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org [mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org] On Behalf Of Keith Packard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:48 PM To: Randy Steck Cc: 'Members Oroc' Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Unrecovered rocket On Sun, 2009-06-21 at 18:39 -0700, Randy Steck wrote: > We were keeping an eye out for Keith's rocket as well as ours, and > with 8 people we covered a lot of ground both to the west and south of > the flight line (I estimate a 1.5 miles west and 1 mile south). No > joy on any rocket or rocket parts, which surprised us. Oh, I thought you guys were north of the flight line. Did anyone search up in that area? It seems improbable to me, but as we failed to find anything on the south side... > So, I guess we have two rockets at large that both look similar. Fred > got a picture of ours and it's posted at > http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/DSC_5856-small.jpg. Bob Welsh also lost a rocket out in that direction, I think it's white/green. Lots of unhappy faces out there today. -- keith.packard at intel. com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Jack Caynon, here.? The MIA #3 is mine.? I lost it last October in the snow.? Please ship it to me at 1620 Gemma St. NW, Salem, OR? 97304 and I will pay you for the shipping costs and your trouble.??To satisfy my curiousity, who found the rocket?? I would love to thank them as well.? Thanks! Jack? -----Original Message----- From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:59 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. MIA #1 Bob Grossfield, your Thug was found about 2500' East of the flight line. It's in reasonable shape and could be made flight worthy with a little effort. It's in the club trailer at this time. MIA #2 PML IO, Nicely constructed, rail buttons, primer white. Looks like it went MIA during the may launch based on fading of the parachute. It's in ready to fly condition and is in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. It was found about 2000' SE of the flight line. MIA #3 Looks to be a Performance Rocketry 4" Nike Smoke that is built and finished so nice I'd show it off as my own. Based on the condition of the parachute, I'd say it went MIA in 2008 or earlier. Replace the parachute (with a smaller one) and it should be ready for action. It was found about 3000' SE of the flight line. This rocket is also in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. I'll get pictures of MIA #2 and MIA #3 on the NW Rocketry website later today. John -----Original Message----- From: [A] members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org [ [A] mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org ] On Behalf Of Keith Packard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:48 PM To: Randy Steck Cc: 'Members Oroc' Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Unrecovered rocket On Sun, 2009-06-21 at 18:39 -0700, Randy Steck wrote: > We were keeping an eye out for Keith's rocket as well as ours, and > with 8 people we covered a lot of ground both to the west and south of > the flight line (I estimate a 1.5 miles west and 1 mile south). No > joy on any rocket or rocket parts, which surprised us. Oh, I thought you guys were north of the flight line. Did anyone search up in that area? It seems improbable to me, but as we failed to find anything on the south side... > So, I guess we have two rockets at large that both look similar. Fred > got a picture of ours and it's posted at > [A] http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/DSC_5856-small.jpg . Bob Welsh also lost a rocket out in that direction, I think it's white/green. Lots of unhappy faces out there today. -- [A] keith.packard at intel.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list [A] Rockets at rocketsnw.com [A] http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823273x1201398689/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62 See yours in just 2 easy steps! From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Mon Jun 22 16:12:26 2009 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:12:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. In-Reply-To: <8CBC1A38F502D7A-16FC-1EE3@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com> References: <1b798faf-60f7-4406-84ed-907640e59d72@stex.net><1245635299.9742.44.camel@aiko.keithp.com> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368828687FFA4A@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <8CBC1A38F502D7A-16FC-1EE3@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368828687FFAA7@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Wow! We have a winner already. I found the rocket while I was walking through the sage looking for Keith's missing Nike Smoke. I told him that the desert pixies must have repainted it to scale colors during the night, but he didn't buy that story. If you're not in a big hurry, I can drop it off in a week or two on my next trip to Salem. John ________________________________ From: jjcllc03 at aol.com [mailto:jjcllc03 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:55 PM To: Lyngdal, John W; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. Hi John, Jack Caynon, here. The MIA #3 is mine. I lost it last October in the snow. Please ship it to me at 1620 Gemma St. NW, Salem, OR 97304 and I will pay you for the shipping costs and your trouble. To satisfy my curiousity, who found the rocket? I would love to thank them as well. Thanks! Jack -----Original Message----- From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:59 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. MIA #1 Bob Grossfield, your Thug was found about 2500' East of the flight line. It's in reasonable shape and could be made flight worthy with a little effort. It's in the club trailer at this time. MIA #2 PML IO, Nicely constructed, rail buttons, primer white. Looks like it went MIA during the may launch based on fading of the parachute. It's in ready to fly condition and is in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. It was found about 2000' SE of the flight line. MIA #3 Looks to be a Performance Rocketry 4" Nike Smoke that is built and finished so nice I'd show it off as my own. Based on the condition of the parachute, I'd say it went MIA in 2008 or earlier. Replace the parachute (with a smaller one) and it should be ready for action. It was found about 3000' SE of the flight line. This rocket is also in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. I'll get pictures of MIA #2 and MIA #3 on the NW Rocketry website later today. John -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org [mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org] On Behalf Of Keith Packard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:48 PM To: Randy Steck Cc: 'Members Oroc' Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Unrecovered rocket On Sun, 2009-06-21 at 18:39 -0700, Randy Steck wrote: > We were keeping an eye out for Keith's rocket as well as ours, and > with 8 people we covered a lot of ground both to the west and south of > the flight line (I estimate a 1.5 miles west and 1 mile south). No > joy on any rocket or rocket parts, which surprised us. Oh, I thought you guys were north of the flight line. Did anyone search up in that area? It seems improbable to me, but as we failed to find anything on the south side... > So, I guess we have two rockets at large that both look similar. Fred > got a picture of ours and it's posted at > http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/DSC_5856-small.jpg. Bob Welsh also lost a rocket out in that direction, I think it's white/green. Lots of unhappy faces out there today. -- keith.packard at intel.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ________________________________ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! -------------- next part -------------- Wow!? We have a winner already. ? I found the rocket while I was walking through the sage looking for Keith's missing Nike Smoke. I told him that the desert?pixies must have repainted it to scale colors during the night, but he didn't buy that story. ? If you're not in a big hurry, I can drop it off in a week or two on my next trip to Salem. ? John ? ? From: jjcllc03 at aol.com [mailto:jjcllc03 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:55 PM To: Lyngdal, John W; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. Hi John, Jack Caynon, here.? The MIA #3 is mine.? I lost it last October in the snow.? Please ship it to me at 1620 Gemma St. NW, Salem, OR? 97304 and I will pay you for the shipping costs and your trouble.??To satisfy my curiousity, who found the rocket?? I would love to thank them as well.? Thanks! Jack? -----Original Message----- From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:59 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. MIA #1 Bob Grossfield, your Thug was found about 2500' East of the flight line. It's in reasonable shape and could be made flight worthy with a little effort. It's in the club trailer at this time. MIA #2 PML IO, Nicely constructed, rail buttons, primer white. Looks like it went MIA during the may launch based on fading of the parachute. It's in ready to fly condition and is in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. It was found about 2000' SE of the flight line. MIA #3 Looks to be a Performance Rocketry 4" Nike Smoke that is built and finished so nice I'd show it off as my own. Based on the condition of the parachute, I'd say it went MIA in 2008 or earlier. Replace the parachute (with a smaller one) and it should be ready for action. It was found about 3000' SE of the flight line. This rocket is also in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. I'll get pictures of MIA #2 and MIA #3 on the NW Rocketry website later today. John -----Original Message----- From: [A] members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org [ [A] mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org ] On Behalf Of Keith Packard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:48 PM To: Randy Steck Cc: 'Members Oroc' Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Unrecovered rocket On Sun, 2009-06-21 at 18:39 -0700, Randy Steck wrote: > We were keeping an eye out for Keith's rocket as well as ours, and > with 8 people we covered a lot of ground both to the west and south of > the flight line (I estimate a 1.5 miles west and 1 mile south). No > joy on any rocket or rocket parts, which surprised us. Oh, I thought you guys were north of the flight line. Did anyone search up in that area? It seems improbable to me, but as we failed to find anything on the south side... > So, I guess we have two rockets at large that both look similar. Fred > got a picture of ours and it's posted at > [A] http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/DSC_5856-small.jpg . Bob Welsh also lost a rocket out in that direction, I think it's white/green. Lots of unhappy faces out there today. -- [A] keith.packard at intel.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list [A] Rockets at rocketsnw.com [A] http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823273x1201398689/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62 See yours in just 2 easy steps! From jjcllc03 at aol.com Mon Jun 22 16:18:18 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:18:18 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368828687FFAA7@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <1b798faf-60f7-4406-84ed-907640e59d72@stex.net><1245635299.9742.44.camel@aiko.keithp.com><1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368828687FFA4A@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><8CBC1A38F502D7A-16FC-1EE3@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368828687FFAA7@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <8CBC1A6DC84CDFF-16FC-1FEB@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com> Thanks for getting back to me so quickly on this, John.? As for you finding it, I figured the Rocket Gods were so pleased by my flight of junior's bigger brother this Saturday, that they decided to be kind to me and have you find the missing Nike Smoke.? :) I'm not in a big hurry, and would be happy if you can drop it off to me on your next trip to Salem.? Would you like to bring it to the address I had in the last email or would you rather drop it off to me at Salem Hospital, where I work? Jack -----Original Message----- From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com To: jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 4:12 pm Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. Wow!? We have a winner already. ? I found the rocket while I was walking through the sage looking for Keith's missing Nike Smoke. I told him that the desert?pixies must have repainted it to scale colors during the night, but he didn't buy that story. ? If you're not in a big hurry, I can drop it off in a week or two on my next trip to Salem. ? John ? ? From: jjcllc03 at aol.com [mailto:jjcllc03 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:55 PM To: Lyngdal, John W; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. Hi John, Jack Caynon, here.? The MIA #3 is mine.? I lost it last October in the snow.? Please ship it to me at 1620 Gemma St. NW, Salem, OR? 97304 and I will pay you for the shipping costs and your trouble.??To satisfy my curiousity, who found the rocket?? I would love to thank them as well.? Thanks! Jack? -----Original Message----- From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com To: members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:59 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. MIA #1 Bob Grossfield, your Thug was found about 2500' East of the flight line. It's in reasonable shape and could be made flight worthy with a little effort. It's in the club trailer at this time. MIA #2 PML IO, Nicely constructed, rail buttons, primer white. Looks like it went MIA during the may launch based on fading of the parachute. It's in ready to fly condition and is in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. It was found about 2000' SE of the flight line. MIA #3 Looks to be a Performance Rocketry 4" Nike Smoke that is built and finished so nice I'd show it off as my own. Based on the condition of the parachute, I'd say it went MIA in 2008 or earlier. Replace the parachute (with a smaller one) and it should be ready for action. It was found about 3000' SE of the flight line. This rocket is also in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. I'll get pictures of MIA #2 and MIA #3 on the NW Rocketry website later today. John -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org [mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org] On Behalf Of Keith Packard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:48 PM To: Randy Steck Cc: 'Members Oroc' Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Unrecovered rocket On Sun, 2009-06-21 at 18:39 -0700, Randy Steck wrote: > We were keeping an eye out for Keith's rocket as well as ours, and > with 8 people we covered a lot of ground both to the west and south of > the flight line (I estimate a 1.5 miles west and 1 mile south). No > joy on any rocket or rocket parts, which surprised us. Oh, I thought you guys were north of the flight line. Did anyone search up in that area? It seems improbable to me, but as we failed to find anything on the south side... > So, I guess we have two rockets at large that both look similar. Fred > got a picture of ours and it's posted at > http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/DSC_5856-small.jpg. Bob Welsh also lost a rocket out in that direction, I think it's white/green. Lots of unhappy faces out there today. -- keith.packard at intel. com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! -------------- next part -------------- I'm not in a big hurry, and would be happy if you can drop it off to me on your next trip to Salem.? Would you like to bring it to the address I had in the last email or would you rather drop it off to me at Salem Hospital, where I work? Jack -----Original Message----- From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com To: jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 4:12 pm Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. Wow!? We have a winner already. ? I found the rocket while I was walking through the sage looking for Keith's missing Nike Smoke. I told him that the desert?pixies must have repainted it to scale colors during the night, but he didn't buy that story. ? If you're not in a big hurry, I can drop it off in a week or two on my next trip to Salem. ? John ? ? From: mailto:jjcllc03 at aol.com jjcllc03 at aol.com [ mailto:jjcllc03 at aol.com? mailto:jjcllc03 at aol.com ] Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:55 PM To: Lyngdal, John W; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. Hi John, Jack Caynon, here.? The MIA #3 is mine.? I lost it last October in the snow.? Please ship it to me at 1620 Gemma St. NW, Salem, OR? 97304 and I will pay you for the shipping costs and your trouble.??To satisfy my curiousity, who found the rocket?? I would love to thank them as well.? Thanks! Jack? -----Original Message----- From: mailto:john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com To: mailto:members at oregonrocketry.org members at oregonrocketry.org ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:59 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] Three MIA rockets returned home last weekend. MIA #1 Bob Grossfield, your Thug was found about 2500' East of the flight line. It's in reasonable shape and could be made flight worthy with a little effort. It's in the club trailer at this time. MIA #2 PML IO, Nicely constructed, rail buttons, primer white. Looks like it went MIA during the may launch based on fading of the parachute. It's in ready to fly condition and is in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. It was found about 2000' SE of the flight line. MIA #3 Looks to be a Performance Rocketry 4" Nike Smoke that is built and finished so nice I'd show it off as my own. Based on the condition of the parachute, I'd say it went MIA in 2008 or earlier. Replace the parachute (with a smaller one) and it should be ready for action. It was found about 3000' SE of the flight line. This rocket is also in my garage and can I ship it to the owner. I'll get pictures of MIA #2 and MIA #3 on the NW Rocketry website later today. John -----Original Message----- From: [A] members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org [ [A] mailto:members-bounces at oregonrocketry.org ] On Behalf Of Keith Packard Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:48 PM To: Randy Steck Cc: 'Members Oroc' Subject: Re: [OROC Members] Unrecovered rocket On Sun, 2009-06-21 at 18:39 -0700, Randy Steck wrote: > We were keeping an eye out for Keith's rocket as well as ours, and > with 8 people we covered a lot of ground both to the west and south of > the flight line (I estimate a 1.5 miles west and 1 mile south). No > joy on any rocket or rocket parts, which surprised us. Oh, I thought you guys were north of the flight line. Did anyone search up in that area? It seems improbable to me, but as we failed to find anything on the south side... > So, I guess we have two rockets at large that both look similar. Fred > got a picture of ours and it's posted at > [A] http://www.northwestrocketry.com/uploads/DSC_5856-small.jpg . Bob Welsh also lost a rocket out in that direction, I think it's white/green. Lots of unhappy faces out there today. -- [A] keith.packard at intel.com _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list [A] Rockets at rocketsnw.com [A] http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823273x1201398689/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62 See yours in just 2 easy steps! A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823273x1201398689/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62 See yours in just 2 easy steps! From jjcllc03 at aol.com Mon Jun 22 16:28:54 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:28:54 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] David Holloway built the Big Rocket under the "Jack and friend" caption Message-ID: <8CBC1A857DB9883-16FC-2081@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com> Everyone, on the?caption for the photo of the Big Rocket on NW Rocketry, it should read that it was David Holloway's Big Country rocket.? It is a scratch-built, 12 foot tall rocket with a 7.5 inch diameter spiral wound fiberglass airframe.? Dave?sweated over the beast for months and devised using USB cables to send enough current to the outboard motors for airstarts. David?launched Big Country (named after the famous center from the Oklahoma State University Cowboy basketball team)?on a Cesaroni L1030 Red Lightning and air started two Cesaroni J590 motors in the 38mm outboard tubes.? Anyway, I wanted to set the record straight and to thank Fred for taking such a fabulous picture of Dave's rocket. ? -------------- next part -------------- Everyone, on the?caption for the photo of the Big Rocket on NW Rocketry, it should read that it was David Holloway's Big Country rocket.? It is a scratch-built, 12 foot tall rocket with a 7.5 inch diameter spiral wound fiberglass airframe.? Dave?sweated over the beast for months and devised using USB cables to send enough current to the outboard motors for airstarts. David?launched Big Country (named after the famous center from the Oklahoma State University Cowboy basketball team)?on a Cesaroni L1030 Red Lightning and air started two Cesaroni J590 motors in the 38mm outboard tubes.? Anyway, I wanted to set the record straight and to thank Fred for taking such a fabulous picture of Dave's rocket. ? A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823273x1201398689/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62 See yours in just 2 easy steps! From fred at azinger.com Mon Jun 22 17:16:31 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:16:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] David Holloway built the Big Rocket under the "Jack and friend" caption In-Reply-To: <8CBC1A857DB9883-16FC-2081@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBC1A857DB9883-16FC-2081@FWM-M10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00e501c9f397$dc4524e0$94cf6ea0$@com> Thanks Jack for setting the record straight -- it's hard to remember all the names and details for all the shots when I sit down to post a bunch. The other shot labeled "unknown rocket" belongs to Randy Steck is apparently still MIA. Fred -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of jjcllc03 at aol.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:29 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] David Holloway built the Big Rocket under the "Jack and friend" caption Everyone, on the?caption for the photo of the Big Rocket on NW Rocketry, it should read that it was David Holloway's Big Country rocket.? It is a scratch-built, 12 foot tall rocket with a 7.5 inch diameter spiral wound fiberglass airframe.? Dave?sweated over the beast for months and devised using USB cables to send enough current to the outboard motors for airstarts. David?launched Big Country (named after the famous center from the Oklahoma State University Cowboy basketball team)?on a Cesaroni L1030 Red Lightning and air started two Cesaroni J590 motors in the 38mm outboard tubes.? Anyway, I wanted to set the record straight and to thank Fred for taking such a fabulous picture of Dave's rocket. ? From holdencurrency at comcast.net Mon Jun 22 17:55:42 2009 From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:55:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! In-Reply-To: <1047156772.4261791245718015141.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1391892581.4264651245718542737.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> My tubes will be in stock next week. ( Maybe sooner ) My shipment of blue tubes goes out tomorrow. I'll post a message when it comes in! I have some parts & accessories which is expanding. It would be helpfull to know what people are looking for so I can stock the right stuff.?? As for rocket kits I have close to 100 kits it stock! If what your looking for isn't in stock, I??can special order items in for you! My store hours are: 11:30AM - 6:00PM Tuesdays - Friday 9:00AM - 6:00PM Saturday 10:00AM - 4:00PM Sunday Closed Monday Thank you all??for your Interest and Support, Chris Holden www.holdenshobbies.com 253-961-3095 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Holden" To: "C Bennight" Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:46:55 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! My tubes will be in stock next week. ( Maybe sooner ) My shipment of blue tubes goes out tomorrow. I'll post a message when it comes in! I have some parts & accessories which is expanding. It would be helpfull to know what people are looking for so I can stock the right stuff.?? As for rocket kits I have close to 100 kits it stock! If what your looking for isn't in stock, I??can special order items in for you! My store hours are: 11:30AM - 6:00PM Tuesdays - Friday 9:00AM - 6:00PM Saturday 10:00AM - 4:00PM Sunday Closed Monday Thank you all??for your Interest and Support, Chris Holden www.holdenshobbies.com 253-961-3095 ----- Original Message ----- From: "C Bennight" To: holdencurrency at comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:59:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! Hi Chris, ?? I was just wondering what your store hours are. I will be stopping by in the next day or so and do some brousing of parts and kits. ?? Thanks, Mike Bennight ?? > Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:19:13 +0000 > From: holdencurrency at comcast.net > To: willey at selby.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! > > > > Call me or send me an email if you have any more questions.???? Apyro4hire at comcast.net ?????? =???????? 253-961-3095 > > > > Best Regards, > > Chris Holden > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Holden" > To: "Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:16:16 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! > > Chris Here from Holdens hobbies,?? ( www.holdenshobbies.com ) ?????? Yes, I got my first chance to see the product at FITZ. and I was verry impressed.?? I've been doing some research and found the product way better than phenolic for strength & durability. I've been using phenolic for years and found the product strong but brittle. If a phenolic rocket thats??leaning against a table falls and hits the ground with any force its likely to break. Not so with blue tube. ?????? I like the product so much that I've expanded my rocketry to include parts for scratch builders. My first shipment of blue tube will be in Auburn WA. by next week & I'll be listed on the website as an authorized dealer ?? tomorrow!!!!???? I have a PDF that lists the s pecks on blue tube ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen S. Willey s Mats Mats" willey at selby.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:52:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube Does anyone here hav any experience with using Blue Tube for rocket ?? airframes? http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/bluetube.html Does anyone know what it _is_ (yes, i know it's something wound onto a ?? mandrel and used in tank shells, yipee). ??The website says what it's ?? not (cured phenolic, flexible phenolic, etc.) but not what it is. While we're talk'n tubing does anyone hav a good comparison of ?? convolute phenolic v. 'normal' phenolic (i.e. PML phenolic). ??The ?? article http://www.info-central.org/?article=176 doesn't penetrate my ?? thick skull. thanks, steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ???? > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing??? now -------------- next part -------------- My tubes will be in stock next week. ( Maybe sooner ) My shipment of blue tubes goes out tomorrow. I'll post a message when it comes in! I have some parts & accessories which is expanding. It would be helpfull to know what people are looking for so I can stock the right stuff.? As for rocket kits I have close to 100 kits it stock! If what your looking for isn't in stock, I?can special order items in for you! ? My store hours are: 11:30AM - 6:00PM Tuesdays - Friday 9:00AM - 6:00PM Saturday 10:00AM - 4:00PM Sunday Closed Monday ? Thank you all?for your Interest and Support, Chris Holden http://www.holdenshobbies.com/ www.holdenshobbies.com 253-961-3095 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Holden" To: "C Bennight" Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 5:46:55 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! My tubes will be in stock next week. ( Maybe sooner ) My shipment of blue tubes goes out tomorrow. I'll post a message when it comes in! I have some parts & accessories which is expanding. It would be helpfull to know what people are looking for so I can stock the right stuff.? As for rocket kits I have close to 100 kits it stock! If what your looking for isn't in stock, I?can special order items in for you! ? My store hours are: 11:30AM - 6:00PM Tuesdays - Friday 9:00AM - 6:00PM Saturday 10:00AM - 4:00PM Sunday Closed Monday ? Thank you all?for your Interest and Support, Chris Holden http://www.holdenshobbies.com/ www.holdenshobbies.com 253-961-3095 ----- Original Message ----- From: "C Bennight" To: holdencurrency at comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:59:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! Hi Chris, ? I was just wondering what your store hours are. I will be stopping by in the next day or so and do some brousing of parts and kits. ? Thanks, Mike Bennight ? > Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:19:13 +0000 > From: holdencurrency at comcast.net > To: willey at selby.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! > > > > Call me or send me an email if you have any more questions.?? Apyro4hire at comcast.net ??? =???? 253-961-3095 > > > > Best Regards, > > Chris Holden > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Holden" > To: "Stephen S. Willey Mats Mats" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:16:16 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] blue tube ........... Exciting news from Holdens Hobbies! > > Chris Here from Holdens hobbies,? ( www.holdenshobbies.com ) ??? Yes, I got my first chance to see the product at FITZ. and I was verry impressed.? I've been doing some research and found the product way better than phenolic for strength & durability. I've been using phenolic for years and found the product strong but brittle. If a phenolic rocket thats?leaning against a table falls and hits the ground with any force its likely to break. Not so with blue tube. ??? I like the product so much that I've expanded my rocketry to include parts for scratch builders. My first shipment of blue tube will be in Auburn WA. by next week & I'll be listed on the website as an authorized dealer ? tomorrow!!!!?? I have a PDF that lists the s pecks on blue tube ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen S. Willey s Mats Mats" willey at selby.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:52:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] blue tube Does anyone here hav any experience with using Blue Tube for rocket ? airframes? http://www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com/Products/bluetube.html Does anyone know what it _is_ (yes, i know it's something wound onto a ? mandrel and used in tank shells, yipee). ?The website says what it's ? not (cured phenolic, flexible phenolic, etc.) but not what it is. While we're talk'n tubing does anyone hav a good comparison of ? convolute phenolic v. 'normal' phenolic (i.e. PML phenolic). ?The ? article http://www.info-central.org/?article=176 doesn't penetrate my ? thick skull. thanks, steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. http://www.bing.com/?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 Try Bing??? now From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 18:54:35 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] July Summer Skies; Trailer Hauling Volunteer needed Message-ID: <1ACFF83EAA8F4B7AB0B5C0911EBC0F1A@LaptopKrausert> Before we hold the next launch, we need a volunteer to haul the trailer back from the launch. The trailer needs to be hauled from the Brothers launch site to Vancouver Washington. If you're willing, we will provide some fuel/mileage compensation. Please let me know. This is required before this launch will happen. Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- Before we hold the next launch, we need a volunteer to haul the trailer back from the launch. The trailer needs to be hauled from the Brothers launch site to Vancouver Washington. ? If you're willing, we will provide some fuel/mileage compensation. Please let me know. This is required before this launch will happen. ? Cheers, Robert From appusher at q.com Mon Jun 22 19:35:24 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:35:24 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ralph, I just flew my Binder Design Sentinel dual deploy over the weekend at Brothers. I had a 36" main X-Stream at apogee (2711') and it worked just fine on the 9lb 10 oz rocket. I have used a 12" drouge at apogee for alot of flights that worked well when I was above 8,000'. I found it keeps the separated parts in line and from beating against each other. Good luck on your L2 flight. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: lsagan123 at msn.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; Members at oregonrocketry.org > Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 10:20:55 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question > > Hello all, > > I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that > there will be the appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty > confident of the bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to > recovery the plan is a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to > disagree on the size of chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 > lbs I am getting estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a > 12" drogue at apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the > disparity of the answers I am getting via software I thought I would check > with the folks on these lists who have more practical experience. Any > guidance would be appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly > accurate for chutes would be very cool. > > > > Thanks > > > > Ralph W. Strauser > > TRA 006672 > > > -------------- next part -------------- Hi Ralph, ? I just flew my Binder Design Sentinel dual deploy over the weekend at Brothers.? I had a 36" main X-Stream?at apogee (2711') and it worked just fine on the 9lb 10 oz rocket.? I have used a 12" drouge at apogee for alot of flights that worked well when I was above 8,000'.? I found it keeps the separated parts in line and from beating against each other. ? Good luck on your L2 flight. ? Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > From: lsagan123 at msn.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; Members at oregonrocketry.org > Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 10:20:55 -0700 > Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question > > Hello all, > > I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that > there will be the appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty > confident of the bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to > recovery the plan is a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to > disagree on the size of chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 > lbs I am getting estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a > 12" drogue at apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the > disparity of the answers I am getting via software I thought I would check > with the folks on these lists who have more practical experience. Any > guidance would be appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly > accurate for chutes would be very cool. > > > > Thanks > > > > Ralph W. Strauser > > TRA 006672 > > > From kent.newman at comcast.net Mon Jun 22 19:41:34 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:41:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] "Roll Your Own" Launch - June 27-28 Message-ID: <000001c9f3ac$2072d1d0$61587570$@newman@comcast.net> Greetings all! Saturday and Sunday, June 27-28th, will see a WAC research launch held at the Sportsman's Club in Mansfield, WA. Waiver altitudes will be 8,000' at the track and 14,000' at the away cell. Launch hours will be from 8:00 a.m. until 8:00 p.m. on Saturday and 8:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. or so on Sunday. This is a Tripoli (TRA) member-only launch. For those wishing to fly research motors, fliers must be at least 18 years old, be a member of Tripoli and be certified L2. For those wishing to fly commercial motors or to attempt a certification flight, fliers must be at least 18 years old and be a member of Tripoli. A TAP will be present for certifications. The TRA safety code will be followed. For those that may be new to research activities, please know that these events are much more casual in the sense of frequency of activity than typical commercial launches and more lightly attended. Children and families are not encouraged to attend. Please realize that this stance is for the obvious safety reasons. GSE will be very limited; WAC GSE will not be on site. Please bring your own GSE or make arrangements with another flier. Regards, Kent Newman -------------- next part -------------- Greetings all! ? Saturday and Sunday, June 27-28 th , will see a WAC research launch held at the Sportsman???s Club in Mansfield, WA. ? Waiver altitudes will be 8,000??? at the track and 14,000??? at the away cell. Launch hours will be from 8:00 a.m. until 8:00 p.m. on Saturday and 8:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. or so on Sunday. ? This is a Tripoli (TRA) member-only launch.? For those wishing to fly research motors, fliers must be at least 18 years old, be a member of Tripoli and be certified L2.? For those wishing to fly commercial motors or to attempt a certification flight, fliers must be at least 18 years old and be a member of Tripoli.? A TAP will be present for certifications.? The TRA safety code will be followed. ? For those that may be new to research activities, please know that these events are much more casual in the sense of frequency of activity than typical commercial launches and more lightly attended.? Children and families are not encouraged to attend.?? Please realize that this stance is for the obvious safety reasons. ? GSE will be very limited; WAC GSE will not be on site.? Please bring your own GSE or make arrangements with another flier. ? Regards, ? Kent Newman ? ? ? ? ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 20:17:20 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:17:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC mtg July 2nd; Seeking Rocket Show & Tell Message-ID: Hello, The next OROC meeting is July 2nd at 7:30pm in the backroom of Giovanni's in Beaverton. If you're working on or completed a recent project, AND willing to share - please let me know. New ebay, new rocket, new design... Show and tell time can be yours. Again, let me know. I'll sign you up on the agenda. (By Friday June 26th please). Cheers, Robert -------------- next part -------------- Hello, The next OROC meeting is July 2nd at 7:30pm in the backroom of Giovanni's in Beaverton. If you're working on or completed a recent project, AND willing to share - please let me know. New ebay, new rocket, new design... Show and tell time can be yours. ? Again, let me know. I'll sign you up on the agenda. (By Friday June 26th please). ? Cheers, Robert From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Fri Jun 19 15:07:46 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:07:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Japanese WWII rocket plane Message-ID: <4A3C0C32.6040603@earthlink.net> The Japanese during WWII had a rocket plane they used in kamikaze attacks on our naval fleet called the Ohka. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohka You can download for free a paper model of it. http://thaipaperwork.freehostia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/warbirds-series-34-ohka-model-22.pdf Robert From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Sun Jun 21 21:11:04 2009 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:11:04 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Next 60 Acres launch Message-ID: <4A3F0458.7020305@earthlink.net> The next launch is tentatively scheduled on Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 6:00pm. Greg from Roadside Hobbies will be sponsoring a boost glide duration contest. More details to come. Any suggestions for names? Robert From sb at berfield.com Tue Jun 23 08:58:39 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:58:39 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Japanese WWII rocket plane Message-ID: That's pretty cool. I had never heard of the Ohka before. My uncle was on carriers in WWII and used to tell some pretty amazing/scary as hell stories about what all went on. I'd try to make the model, but the las ttime I tried to do a paper model the results were... um... unfortunate. -----Original Message----- From: Hammer [mailto:hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 03:07 PM To: 'NW Rocketry mailing list' Subject: [RocketsNW] Japanese WWII rocket plane The Japanese during WWII had a rocket plane they used in kamikaze attacks on our naval fleet called the Ohka.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OhkaYou can download for free a paper model of it.http://thaipaperwork.freehostia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/warbirds-series-34-ohka-model-22.pdfRobert_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- That's pretty cool. I had never heard of the Ohka before. My uncle was on carriers in WWII and used to tell some pretty amazing/scary as hell stories about what all went on. I'd try to make the model, but the las ttime I tried to do a paper model the results were... um... unfortunate. ? -----Original Message----- From: Hammer [mailto:hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 03:07 PM To: 'NW Rocketry mailing list' Subject: [RocketsNW] Japanese WWII rocket plane The Japanese during WWII had a rocket plane they used in kamikaze attacks on our naval fleet called the Ohka. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohka You can download for free a paper model of it. http://thaipaperwork.freehostia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/warbirds-series-34-ohka-model-22.pdf Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Tue Jun 23 08:59:25 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:59:25 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Next 60 Acres launch Message-ID: Hmmm -- how about "Dude, your glider is in the slough"? -----Original Message----- From: Hammer [mailto:hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 09:11 PM To: 'NW Rocketry mailing list' Subject: [RocketsNW] Next 60 Acres launch The next launch is tentatively scheduled on Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 6:00pm. Greg from Roadside Hobbies will be sponsoring a boost glide duration contest. More details to come.Any suggestions for names?Robert_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Hmmm -- how about "Dude, your glider is in the slough"? ? -----Original Message----- From: Hammer [mailto:hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 09:11 PM To: 'NW Rocketry mailing list' Subject: [RocketsNW] Next 60 Acres launch The next launch is tentatively scheduled on Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 60 Acres Park from 9:30am to 6:00pm. Greg from Roadside Hobbies will be sponsoring a boost glide duration contest. More details to come. Any suggestions for names? Robert _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jjcllc03 at aol.com Tue Jun 23 16:08:28 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:08:28 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Is BSD Rocketry still in business? Message-ID: <8CBC26EA75FF59B-CE4-EA3@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> I was wondering if anyone on our list knows the answer to this.? If it is still in business, does it still produce the big HoJo? Jack -------------- next part -------------- Jack A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377052x1201454391/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62 See yours in just 2 easy steps! From mfreptiles at aol.com Tue Jun 23 16:41:48 2009 From: mfreptiles at aol.com (mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:41:48 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Is BSD Rocketry still in business? In-Reply-To: <8CBC26EA75FF59B-CE4-EA3@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBC26EA75FF59B-CE4-EA3@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CBC2734FAA7F80-D58-1186@MBLK-M23.sysops.aol.com> Last I heard is that they are on hiatus, pending Scott Ulrey's recovery from a table saw injury, and recent divorce. If you need compatible components for BSD kits, Binder Design 3.9" tubes, couplers, and nosecones are the same.? Mike Fisher Binder Design -----Original Message----- From: jjcllc03 at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 4:08 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] Is BSD Rocketry still in business? Jack A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377052x1201454391/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62 See yours in just 2 easy steps! _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- If you need compatible components for BSD kits, Binder Design 3.9" tubes, couplers, and nosecones are the same.? Mike Fisher Binder Design -----Original Message----- From: jjcllc03 at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 4:08 pm Subject: [RocketsNW] Is BSD Rocketry still in business? Jack A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377052x1201454391/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62 http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377052x1201454391/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62 See yours in just 2 easy steps! _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000037 get the Green Toolbar . From appusher at q.com Tue Jun 23 16:57:45 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:57:45 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Message-ID: This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. Bill ------------- From: "Diane Carlson" Subject: Price Surcharge Notice Date: Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm To: "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" ,"U.S. Distributors" ,"International HP" Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. ? Not really good news to say the least.? Looks like Gary is swimming again. ? Bill ------------- From:? "Diane Carlson" Subject:? Price Surcharge Notice Date:? Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm To:? "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" ,"U.S. Distributors" ,"International HP" Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From scott at scottsrockets.com Tue Jun 23 17:00:21 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:00:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Firefox found a fricken boatload.............so...???????? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. Bill ------------- From: "Diane Carlson" Subject: Price Surcharge Notice Date: Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm To: "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" ,"U.S. Distributors" ,"International HP" Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From keithp at keithp.com Tue Jun 23 18:10:10 2009 From: keithp at keithp.com (Keith Packard) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:10:10 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC Model Launch. July 5th, 2-5pm. Memorial Park, Wilsonville Message-ID: <1245805810.9742.141.camel@aiko.keithp.com> Oregon Rocketry is again hosting a Model Rocket Launch event at Memorial Park in Wilsonville, Oregon on July 5th, 2009. Setup begins at 1:00pm, range is open for flights between 2:00pm and 5:00pm I know we traditionally schedule these launches on holidays, but this time we miss by one day! Class 1 rockets under the new FAR101 unmanned rocket rules include; (1) Uses no more than 125 grams (4.4 ounces) of propellant; (2) Uses a slow-burning propellant; (3) Is made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; (4) Contains no substantial metal parts; and (5) Weighs no more than 1,500 grams (53 ounces), including the propellant. A through G motors are welcome, and even some H motors. You must however stay below our altitude limits. Conditions of the site mostly limit us to 1000 feet or cloud deck. Clear conditions and zero/low wind may permit higher fights. Ask the LCO if restrictions apply and approval for flight. Join us. Bring the family. Bring some rockets and have a great time flying. No RSVP necessary, just show up. When you arrive at the park, turn to the left and follow the road into the South East section of the field. Wilsonville Memorial Park 8100 SW Wilsonville Rd. Wilsonville, OR 97070 Fliers; Event time is 2:00pm - 5:00pm; all NAR rules apply, plus any additional rules / restrictions for this site. A fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions. LCO tables are not for prep, please use the available tables in the prep area. This is a sanctioned launch event by National Association of Rocketry through NAR section 555 OREO (Steve Tarr). Tim Ryerse and OROC have put together a special raffle prize for any junior flyers. Support staff; We are planning to arrive by 1:00pm to scope out parking and field preference. We'll have a six rod launch pad (has 1/8, 3/8, and 1/4" rods), and two LCO tables, flight line stakes, and a couple of launch controllers. So no OROC GSE is needed for this event. We need extra tables for the prep area. We'll hold a fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions. This is our first summer model launch, so plan for warm weather and sun. Wear a hat, bring some sunglasses and smear on that sunscreen. Then drink plenty of water while outside. Future Wilsonville model launches: August 9th (2-5pm) October 11th (2-5pm) November 14th (12-3pm) No launch in September as OROC is hosting a weekend launch down in Sheridan on the 12th and 13th. Come on down there for one of those two days and see the whole range of rocketry. Schedule details for all of these launches can be found on the OROC calendar: http://oregonrocketry.org/cal/cal-launch.htm -- keith.packard at intel.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/rockets/attachments/20090623/a69068e2/attachment.pgp From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 23 20:40:50 2009 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be even less. Glad to see there are other options now. John H ________________________________ From: Bill Munds To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. ? Not really good news to say the least.? Looks like Gary is swimming again. ? Bill ------------- From:? "Diane Carlson" Subject:? Price Surcharge Notice Date:? Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm To:? "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" ,"U.S. Distributors" ,"International HP" Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be even less. Glad to see there are other options now. ? John H From: Bill Munds To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. ? Not really good news to say the least.? Looks like Gary is swimming again. ? Bill ------------- From:? "Diane Carlson" < mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > Subject:? Price Surcharge Notice Date:? Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm To:? "All Dealers & HP Dealers" < mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com >,"Canada Distributor" < mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com >,"Canada High Power" < mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com >,"U.S. Distributors" < mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com >,"International HP" < mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 21:00:42 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:00:42 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge References: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find within a month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic downturn too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send us is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? We are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a period of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if you're up front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP second hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited period" 20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then they should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them green until we clear from this down turn. Like having CP before CG... ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hornsby" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be even less. Glad to see there are other options now. John H ________________________________ From: Bill Munds To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. Bill ------------- From: "Diane Carlson" Subject: Price Surcharge Notice Date: Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm To: "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" ,"U.S. Distributors" ,"International HP" Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From greg at blastzone.com Tue Jun 23 21:19:23 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:19:23 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <11d701c9f482$f4159230$dc40b690$@com> People have been saying that AP sources are drying up for 10+ years.... I'm still waiting for it to happen. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:01 PM > To: John Hornsby; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find within a > month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic downturn > too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send us > is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? We > are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a period > of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if you're up > front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP second > hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited period" > 20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then they > should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling > this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them green > until we clear from this down turn. > > Like having CP before CG... ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hornsby" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing > like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six > reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be > even less. Glad to see there are other options now. > > John H > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill Munds > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. > > Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. > > Bill > ------------- > From: > "Diane Carlson" > Subject: > Price Surcharge Notice > Date: > Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm > To: > "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada > Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" > ,"U.S. Distributors" > ,"International HP" > > Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain > Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and > with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid > propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has > seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As > a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the > sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This > cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years > for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form > of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% > surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. > We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we > believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. > AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we > are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term > solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will > continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced > quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested > retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech > products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace > Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, > UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER > GOOD > Join me > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Wed Jun 24 02:00:58 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:00:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just to clarify, Aerotech is not raising it's prices on reloads, but is adding a 10% surcharge on dealer orders. Dealers can still sell reloads at retail prices or offer a discount............ Enjoy, Bob >Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find within a >month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic downturn >too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send us >is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? We >are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a period >of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if you're up >front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP second >hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited period" >20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then they >should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling >this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them green >until we clear from this down turn. > >Like having CP before CG... ;-) > >Cheers, >Robert >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Hornsby" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > >Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing >like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six >reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be >even less. Glad to see there are other options now. > >John H > > > > >________________________________ >From: Bill Munds >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM >Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > >This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. > >Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. > >Bill >------------- >From: >"Diane Carlson" >Subject: >Price Surcharge Notice >Date: >Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm >To: >"All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada >Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" >,"U.S. Distributors" >,"International HP" > >Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain >Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and >with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid >propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has >seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As >a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the >sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This >cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years >for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form >of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% >surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. >We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we >believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. > AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we >are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term >solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will >continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced >quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested >retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech >products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace >Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, >UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com >http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood >http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER >GOOD >Join me > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rocketsrfun at msn.com Wed Jun 24 05:49:50 2009 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 05:49:50 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: And how do you think dealers are going to off set their increase? To the consumer that's who.. It's been that way since money was invented. It was only a matter of time before they put it down in black and white. But luckily, there are a few dealers out there that will take the hit and not pass it down to consumers. Don PS: Back from NY ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grossfeld To: rockets northwest Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Just to clarify, Aerotech is not raising it's prices on reloads, but is adding a 10% surcharge on dealer orders. Dealers can still sell reloads at retail prices or offer a discount............ Enjoy, Bob >Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find within a >month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic downturn >too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send us >is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? We >are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a period >of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if you're up >front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP second >hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited period" >20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then they >should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling >this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them green >until we clear from this down turn. > >Like having CP before CG... ;-) > >Cheers, >Robert >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Hornsby" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > >Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing >like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six >reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be >even less. Glad to see there are other options now. > >John H > > > > >________________________________ >From: Bill Munds > >To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM >Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > >This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. > >Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. > >Bill >------------- >From: >"Diane Carlson" > >Subject: >Price Surcharge Notice >Date: >Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm >To: >"All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada >Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" >,"U.S. Distributors" >,"International HP" >> >Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain >Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and >with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid >propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has >seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As >a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the >sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This >cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years >for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form >of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% >surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. >We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we >believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. > AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we >are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term >solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will >continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced >quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested >retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech >products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace >Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, >UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com >http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood >http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER >GOOD >Join me > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- And how do you think dealers are going to off set their increase? To the consumer that's who.. It's been that way since money was invented. It?was only a matter of time before they put it down in black and white. But luckily, there are a few dealers out there that will take the hit and not pass it down to consumers. ? Don ? PS: Back from NY ----- Original Message ----- From: mailto:rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Bob Grossfeld To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets northwest Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Just to clarify, Aerotech is not raising it's prices on reloads, but is adding a 10% surcharge on dealer orders. Dealers can still sell reloads at retail prices or offer a discount............ Enjoy, Bob >Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find within a >month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic downturn >too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send us >is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? We >are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a period >of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if you're up >front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP second >hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited period" >20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then they >should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling >this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them green >until we clear from this down turn. > >Like having CP before CG... ;-) > >Cheers, >Robert >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Hornsby" < mailto:jhornsby3 at yahoo.com jhornsby3 at yahoo.com > >To: < mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > >Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing >like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six >reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be >even less. Glad to see there are other options now. > >John H > > > > >________________________________ >From: Bill Munds < mailto:appusher at q.com appusher at q.com > >To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM >Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > >This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. > >Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. > >Bill >------------- >From: >"Diane Carlson" < mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > >Subject: >Price Surcharge Notice >Date: >Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm >To: >"All Dealers & HP Dealers" < mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com>,"Canada dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com>,"Canada >Distributor" < mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com>,"Canada dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com>,"Canada High Power" >< mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com>,"U.S dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com>,"U.S . Distributors" >< mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com>,"International dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com>,"International HP" >< mailto:dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com dcarlson at aerotech-rocketry.com > >Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain >Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and >with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid >propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has >seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As >a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the >sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This >cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years >for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form >of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% >surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. >We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we >believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. >? AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we >are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term >solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will >continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced >quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested >retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech >products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace >Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, >UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com >http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood >http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER >GOOD >Join me > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>? _______________________________________________ >>? Rockets mailing list >>? mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From mfreptiles at aol.com Wed Jun 24 08:51:33 2009 From: mfreptiles at aol.com (mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:51:33 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] 38mm L photo request Message-ID: <8CBC2FAC89E8B81-12B8-23F5@mblk-d41.sysops.aol.com> If anybody got any photos of the 38mm L rocket before it went up let me know.? Static shots are fine, I don't expect any launch photos, but if you have a fast trigger finger I'd sure appreciate anything you've got. Thanks, Mike F. -------------- next part -------------- Thanks, Mike F. Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000037 get the Green Toolbar . From jjcllc03 at aol.com Wed Jun 24 10:00:28 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:00:28 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] 3FNC and Little John photos on NWRocketry Questions Message-ID: <8CBC30469019600-12C-478@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> Fred, is the 3FNC rocket yours?? I'm building one of those myself (although heavily modified, of course :)) and was wondering what motor was used for the flight. John, is that Little John a Performance Rocketry kit?? What size is it (diameter)? Thanks! Jack -------------- next part -------------- Fred, is the 3FNC rocket yours?? I'm building one of those myself (although heavily modified, of course :)) and was wondering what motor was used for the flight. John, is that Little John a Performance Rocketry kit?? What size is it (diameter)? Thanks! Jack Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000038 get the Green Toolbar . From jjcllc03 at aol.com Wed Jun 24 10:22:37 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:22:37 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question In-Reply-To: References: <4A3E97CE.1050501@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <8CBC30780DCC5B0-12C-5A4@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> Ralph, I used the 60 inch Skyangle Classic chute for my L3 bird which weighed about??17 pounds??without the propellant and it worked beautifully and??returned the bird without a scratch on.?? My airframe is the same diameter as yours, so the chute should fit but it's probably overkill considering the weight of your rocket.?? The??52 inch Skyangle??Classic chute is probably a better chute for your purposes here because it will fit better in the space provided??and will safely bring the rocket down.?? So that would be my recommendation.?? Jack Caynon?? -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Strauser To: 'Greg Clark' ; 'Andrew MacMillen' Cc: Members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2009 2:43 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] parachute question Greg, The rocket is a modified EZI-65. Extended to a total length of 70 inches. Both rogue and main chute end up with an airspace just over 10 inches long with 3.9 nch loc tubing. I have glassed the fins and airframe so it is pretty sturdy. I m using 1 inch Tubular Nylon for the recovery cord with u-bolts as hard points nd quick links as the connectors. RASAero projects ~3200 feet on an I540 and 500 on a K550. Ralph -----Original Message----- rom: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark ent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:37 PM o: Andrew MacMillen c: Ralph Strauser; Members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com ubject: Re: [RocketsNW] p arachute question Ralph, I plan to attend the July launch, and can sign your TRA paperwork.. How big is the airframe? You might have difficulty getting a 72" chute into your main bay. -- Greg On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Andrew acMillen wrote: Chute size is not only a factor of mass, but also of construction & toughness. A stubby rocket of Quantum tubing or well fiberglassed with a centering right at the aft can touch down much faster than a rocket with trailing fins, or in my example, a motor tube recessed 1/2 diameter for hybrids. It also depends on the Cd of the parachute. A 60" Rocketman or Skyangle is much more efficient than a 'flat' chute of the same diameter. I've been pretty happy with RockSim for chute calcs, using the low speed setting of 10 fps for delicate rockets and the higher speed setting of 15 fps for rugged birds. And I set the drogue speed for 50-75 fps. An online calculator that's similar to the one in RockSim is at: http://www.onlinetesting.net/cgi-bin/descent3.3.cgi For a 104 oz. rocket I'd recommend an 18" drogue (65 fps) and a 72+" round main or a 60" Skyangle type (13-15 fps). Andrew. Ralph Strauser wrote: > > Hello all, > I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the > appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the > bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is > a dual deploy. The Variou s software packages seem to disagree on the size of > chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting > estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12????? drogue at > apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the > answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on > these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be > appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes > would be very cool. > Thanks > Ralph W. Strauser > TRA 006672 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets No virus found in this incoming message. hecked by AVG - www.avg.com ersion: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: 06/21/09 5:53:00 _______________________________________________ ockets mailing list ockets at rocketsnw.com ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- I used the 60 inch Skyangle Classic chute for my L3 bird which weighed about?17 pounds?without the propellant and it worked beautifully and?returned the bird without a scratch on.? My airframe is the same diameter as yours, so the chute should fit but it's probably overkill considering the weight of your rocket.? The?52 inch Skyangle?Classic chute is probably a better chute for your purposes here because it will fit better in the space provided?and will safely bring the rocket down.? So that would be my recommendation.? Jack Caynon? -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Strauser To: 'Greg Clark' ; 'Andrew MacMillen' Cc: Members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2009 2:43 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] parachute question Greg, The rocket is a modified EZI-65. Extended to a total length of 70 inches. Both Drogue and main chute end up with an airspace just over 10 inches long with 3.9 inch loc tubing. I have glassed the fins and airframe so it is pretty sturdy. I am using 1 inch Tubular Nylon for the recovery cord with u-bolts as hard points and quick links as the connectors. RASAero projects ~3200 feet on an I540 and 8500 on a K550. Ralph -----Original Message----- From: mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com bigredbee at gmail.com [ mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com? mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com ] On Behalf Of Greg Clark Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:37 PM To: Andrew MacMillen Cc: Ralph Strauser; mailto:Members at oregonrocketry.org Members at oregonrocketry.org ; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] parachute question Ralph, I plan to attend the July launch, and can sign your TRA paperwork.. How big is the airframe? You might have difficulty getting a 72" 'chute into your main bay. -- Greg On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Andrew MacMillen< mailto:andrewm at hawkfeather.com andrewm at hawkfeather.com > wrote: > Chute size is not only a factor of mass, but also of construction & > toughness. A stubby rocket of Quantum tubing or well fiberglassed with a > centering right at the aft can touch down much faster than a rocket with > trailing fins, or in my example, a motor tube recessed 1/2 diameter for > hybrids. It also depends on the Cd of the parachute. A 60" Rocketman or > Skyangle is much more efficient than a 'flat' chute of the same diameter. > > I've been pretty happy with RockSim for chute calcs, using the low speed > setting of 10 fps for delicate rockets and the higher speed setting of 15 > fps for rugged birds. And I set the drogue speed for 50-75 fps. > > An online calculator that's similar to the one in RockSim is at: > > http://www.onlinetesting.net/cgi-bin/descent3.3.cgi http://www.onlinetesting.net/cgi-bin/descent3.3.cgi > > For a 104 oz. rocket I'd recommend an 18" drogue (65 fps) and a 72+" round > main or a 60" Skyangle type (13-15 fps). > > Andrew. > > Ralph Strauser wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the >> appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the >> bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is >> a dual deploy. The Various software packages seem to disagree on the size of >> chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting >> estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12????? drogue at >> apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the >> answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on >> these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be >> appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes >> would be very cool. >> Thanks >> Ralph W. Strauser >> TRA 006672 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ & gt;> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/ www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: 06/21/09 05:53:00 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000038 get the Green Toolbar . From carl20320 at msn.com Wed Jun 24 10:54:08 2009 From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:54:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] parachute question In-Reply-To: <8CBC30780DCC5B0-12C-5A4@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> References: <4A3E97CE.1050501@hawkfeather.com> <8CBC30780DCC5B0-12C-5A4@WEBMAIL-DC01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: For my 4" Binder design California Kid which weighs about the same as your rocket, I use one of Mike's 60" X-Form parachutes. It always comes in at a nice descent rate. A 60" SkyAngle chute is definitely overkill. I use a 60" SA chute in my 13# Competitor 4 and it comes in nice and slow. Carl > To: lsagan123 at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:22:37 -0400 > From: jjcllc03 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] parachute question > > Ralph, > > I used the 60 inch Skyangle Classic chute for my L3 bird which weighed about 17 pounds without the propellant and it worked beautifully and returned the bird without a scratch on. My airframe is the same diameter as yours, so the chute should fit but it's probably overkill considering the weight of your rocket. The 52 inch Skyangle Classic chute is probably a better chute for your purposes here because it will fit better in the space provided and will safely bring the rocket down. So that would be my recommendation. > > Jack Caynon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph Strauser > To: 'Greg Clark' ; 'Andrew MacMillen' > Cc: Members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2009 2:43 pm > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] parachute question > > > > Greg, > The rocket is a modified EZI-65. Extended to a total length of 70 inches. Both > rogue and main chute end up with an airspace just over 10 inches long with 3.9 > nch loc tubing. I have glassed the fins and airframe so it is pretty sturdy. I > m using 1 inch Tubular Nylon for the recovery cord with u-bolts as hard points > nd quick links as the connectors. RASAero projects ~3200 feet on an I540 and > 500 on a K550. > Ralph > -----Original Message----- > rom: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark > ent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:37 PM > o: Andrew MacMillen > c: Ralph Strauser; Members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com > ubject: Re: [RocketsNW] p > arachute question > Ralph, I plan to attend the July launch, and can sign your TRA paperwork.. > How big is the airframe? You might have difficulty getting a 72" > chute into your main bay. > -- Greg > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Andrew > acMillen wrote: > Chute size is not only a factor of mass, but also of construction & > toughness. A stubby rocket of Quantum tubing or well fiberglassed with a > centering right at the aft can touch down much faster than a rocket with > trailing fins, or in my example, a motor tube recessed 1/2 diameter for > hybrids. It also depends on the Cd of the parachute. A 60" Rocketman or > Skyangle is much more efficient than a 'flat' chute of the same diameter. > > I've been pretty happy with RockSim for chute calcs, using the low speed > setting of 10 fps for delicate rockets and the higher speed setting of 15 > fps for rugged birds. And I set the drogue speed for 50-75 fps. > > An online calculator that's similar to the one in RockSim is at: > > http://www.onlinetesting.net/cgi-bin/descent3.3.cgi > > For a 104 oz. rocket I'd recommend an 18" drogue (65 fps) and a 72+" round > main or a 60" Skyangle type (13-15 fps). > > Andrew. > > Ralph Strauser wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the > > appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the > > bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is > > a dual deploy. The Variou > s software packages seem to disagree on the size of > > chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting > > estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12?? drogue at > > apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the > > answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on > > these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be > > appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes > > would be very cool. > > Thanks > > Ralph W. Strauser > > TRA 006672 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > ersion: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: 06/21/09 > 5:53:00 > _______________________________________________ > ockets mailing list > ockets at rocketsnw.com > ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- For my 4" Binder design California Kid which weighs about the same as your rocket, I use one of Mike's 60" X-Form parachutes.? It always comes in?at a nice descent rate.? A 60" SkyAngle chute is definitely overkill.? I use a 60" SA chute in my 13# Competitor 4 and it comes in nice and?slow. ? Carl ? > To: lsagan123 at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:22:37 -0400 > From: jjcllc03 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] parachute question > > Ralph, > > I used the 60 inch Skyangle Classic chute for my L3 bird which weighed about?17 pounds?without the propellant and it worked beautifully and?returned the bird without a scratch on.? My airframe is the same diameter as yours, so the chute should fit but it's probably overkill considering the weight of your rocket.? The?52 inch Skyangle?Classic chute is probably a better chute for your purposes here because it will fit better in the space provided?and will safely bring the rocket down.? So that would be my recommendation.? > > Jack Caynon? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ralph Strauser > To: 'Greg Clark' ; 'Andrew MacMillen' > Cc: Members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2009 2:43 pm > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] parachute question > > > > Greg, > The rocket is a modified EZI-65. Extended to a total length of 70 inches. Both > rogue and main chute end up with an airspace just over 10 inches long with 3.9 > nch loc tubing. I have glassed the fins and airframe so it is pretty sturdy. I > m using 1 inch Tubular Nylon for the recovery cord with u-bolts as hard points > nd quick links as the connectors. RASAero projects ~3200 feet on an I540 and > 500 on a K550. > Ralph > -----Original Message----- > rom: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark > ent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:37 PM > o: Andrew MacMillen > c: Ralph Strauser; Members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com > ubject: Re: [RocketsNW] p > arachute question > Ralph, I plan to attend the July launch, and can sign your TRA paperwork.. > How big is the airframe? You might have difficulty getting a 72" > chute into your main bay. > -- Greg > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Andrew > acMillen wrote: > Chute size is not only a factor of mass, but also of construction & > toughness. A stubby rocket of Quantum tubing or well fiberglassed with a > centering right at the aft can touch down much faster than a rocket with > trailing fins, or in my example, a motor tube recessed 1/2 diameter for > hybrids. It also depends on the Cd of the parachute. A 60" Rocketman or > Skyangle is much more efficient than a 'flat' chute of the same diameter. > > I've been pretty happy with RockSim for chute calcs, using the low speed > setting of 10 fps for delicate rockets and the higher speed setting of 15 > fps for rugged birds. And I set the drogue speed for 50-75 fps. > > An online calculator that's similar to the one in RockSim is at: > > http://www.onlinetesting.net/cgi-bin/descent3.3.cgi > > For a 104 oz. rocket I'd recommend an 18" drogue (65 fps) and a 72+" round > main or a 60" Skyangle type (13-15 fps). > > Andrew. > > Ralph Strauser wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > I am considering trying for my L2 in July assuming that there will be the > > appropriate folks there representing Tripoli. I am pretty confident of the > > bird I have built with one exception. When it comes to recovery the plan is > > a dual deploy. The Variou > s software packages seem to disagree on the size of > > chute I should use. For a bird that comes in at ~6.5 lbs I am getting > > estimates from 30 inches to 70 inches. My plan was to use a 12?? drogue at > > apogee and a 48 inch main at 1000 feet. Because of the disparity of the > > answers I am getting via software I thought I would check with the folks on > > these lists who have more practical experience. Any guidance would be > > appreciated and any links that folks find to be fairly accurate for chutes > > would be very cool. > > Thanks > > Ralph W. Strauser > > TRA 006672 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > hecked by AVG - www.avg.com > ersion: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: 06/21/09 > 5:53:00 > _______________________________________________ > ockets mailing list > ockets at rocketsnw.com > ttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From absworld at cet.com Wed Jun 24 09:33:56 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:33:56 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <021b01c9f4e9$91628500$b4278f00$@com> I do bookwork for a local garden center and when gas prices were high(er) almost every supplier began adding a fuel surcharge. When gas prices came back down, fuel surcharge was eliminated but base price conveniently rose from many sources such that the bottom line stayed where it was. Not all vendors did this and now we use that as a checkpoint when deciding who to purchase what from. I too am glad to see other motor suppliers out there. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Hornsby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:41 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be even less. Glad to see there are other options now. John H ________________________________ From: Bill Munds To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. ? Not really good news to say the least.? Looks like Gary is swimming again. ? Bill ------------- From:? "Diane Carlson" Subject:? Price Surcharge Notice Date:? Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm To:? "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" ,"U.S. Distributors" ,"International HP" Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.90/2200 - Release Date: 06/24/09 12:49:00 From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Jun 24 15:30:59 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A lot of pyro chemicals are surplus stuff. There's a continual fluctuation in sources, prices, quality, and availability to repackagers and small businesses. Maybe Gary's having a shortage because someone else got a "boatload." Or maybe there is less surplus because AP manufacturers are cutting back production now that the use of shuttle SRB's is going to zero for a while. Who knows. As for raising the base price of motors, they're already a pretty pricey luxury these days for many people. In business, the first rule is to survive. I think Gary just caught with his pants down, that's all. ;-) +McG+ > Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find within > a > month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic downturn > too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send us > is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? We > are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a period > of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if you're > up > front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP > second > hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited > period" > 20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then > they > should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling > this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them > green > until we clear from this down turn. > > Like having CP before CG... ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hornsby" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing > like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six > reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be > even less. Glad to see there are other options now. > > John H > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill Munds > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. > > Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. > > Bill > ------------- > From: > "Diane Carlson" > Subject: > Price Surcharge Notice > Date: > Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm > To: > "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada > Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" > ,"U.S. Distributors" > ,"International HP" > > Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to > obtain > Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price > and > with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid > propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has > seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. > As > a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the > sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This > cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years > for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some > form > of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a > 10% > surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit > orders. > We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because > we > believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. > AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and > we > are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term > solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will > continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced > quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall > suggested > retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech > products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer > Aerospace > Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar > City, > UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ > http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER > GOOD > Join me > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From matjamison at aol.com Wed Jun 24 17:37:29 2009 From: matjamison at aol.com (matjamison at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:37:29 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Got scraps? Message-ID: <8CBC344413FEB5C-C5C-1B20@WEBMAIL-DZ20.sysops.aol.com> Hello all, I'm looking for scraps of materials used in aerospace, such as Tungesten, Titanium, Nickel and Carbon Fiber. I'm making posters of Jet engines and Rockets for teaching daycare, boy scouts and church groups the wonders of rocketry. I'd really like to put the materials in their hands, can anyone help out? Thanks Matt . . . . -------------- next part -------------- Hello all, I'm looking for scraps of materials used in aerospace, such as Tungesten, Titanium, Nickel and Carbon Fiber. I'm making posters of Jet engines and Rockets for teaching daycare, boy scouts and church groups the wonders of rocketry. I'd really like to put the materials in their hands, can anyone help out? Thanks Matt . . . . http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221900667x1201409530/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910242%3B38350777%3Bf Huge Savings on Popular Laptops only at Dell.com. Shop Now! From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Wed Jun 24 18:03:40 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:03:40 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <021b01c9f4e9$91628500$b4278f00$@com> References: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <021b01c9f4e9$91628500$b4278f00$@com> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209914C106@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> many companies used the "fuel surcharge" as an excuse to permanently raise prices. it's like the airlines cutting baggage allowances to 50 lbs from 70. they just need to be honest about what they are doing rather than using the current convenient scare to lie. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob & Ann Yanecek Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:34 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge I do bookwork for a local garden center and when gas prices were high(er) almost every supplier began adding a fuel surcharge. When gas prices came back down, fuel surcharge was eliminated but base price conveniently rose from many sources such that the bottom line stayed where it was. Not all vendors did this and now we use that as a checkpoint when deciding who to purchase what from. I too am glad to see other motor suppliers out there. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Hornsby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:41 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be even less. Glad to see there are other options now. John H ________________________________ From: Bill Munds To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. Bill ------------- From: "Diane Carlson" Subject: Price Surcharge Notice Date: Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm To: "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" ,"U.S. Distributors" ,"International HP" Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to obtain Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price and with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. As a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some form of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and we are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall suggested retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer Aerospace Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar City, UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Wed Jun 24 18:05:00 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:05:00 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: <10146.97276.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209914C124@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> hmmm, well AT reloads are already a higher price than the comparable CTI..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:31 PM To: Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge A lot of pyro chemicals are surplus stuff. There's a continual fluctuation in sources, prices, quality, and availability to repackagers and small businesses. Maybe Gary's having a shortage because someone else got a "boatload." Or maybe there is less surplus because AP manufacturers are cutting back production now that the use of shuttle SRB's is going to zero for a while. Who knows. As for raising the base price of motors, they're already a pretty pricey luxury these days for many people. In business, the first rule is to survive. I think Gary just caught with his pants down, that's all. ;-) +McG+ > Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find within > a > month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic downturn > too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send us > is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? We > are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a period > of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if you're > up > front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP > second > hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited > period" > 20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then > they > should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling > this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them > green > until we clear from this down turn. > > Like having CP before CG... ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hornsby" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing > like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six > reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be > even less. Glad to see there are other options now. > > John H > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill Munds > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. > > Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. > > Bill > ------------- > From: > "Diane Carlson" > Subject: > Price Surcharge Notice > Date: > Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm > To: > "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada > Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" > ,"U.S. Distributors" > ,"International HP" > > Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to > obtain > Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price > and > with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid > propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has > seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. > As > a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the > sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This > cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years > for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some > form > of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a > 10% > surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit > orders. > We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because > we > believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. > AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and > we > are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term > solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will > continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced > quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall > suggested > retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech > products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer > Aerospace > Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar > City, > UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ > http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER > GOOD > Join me > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Jjcllc03 at aol.com Wed Jun 24 18:28:44 2009 From: Jjcllc03 at aol.com (Jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:28:44 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Message-ID: Well, my view of this is that Gary is well on his way to surrendering the market to Anthony. Anthony has started to really go after the market with his new 29mm line, the expanded 38mm-150mm line, and the merger with AMW. Technologically, Anthony's motors are superior to Gary's (instant on and ease of construction); consumer-wise, they are more friendly than Gary's. Soon, as to price, Anthony will also beat Gary. If Gary intended that his dealers eat this cost without passing the surcharge onto the consumer then he's fooling himself. And if I were the dealers, I would determine which product provides me a better return on investment and focus my efforts there. Jack In a message dated 6/24/2009 6:06:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bradwr at wrightholdings.com writes: hmmm, well AT reloads are already a higher price than the comparable CTI..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:31 PM To: Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge A lot of pyro chemicals are surplus stuff. There's a continual fluctuation in sources, prices, quality, and availability to repackagers and small businesses. Maybe Gary's having a shortage because someone else got a "boatload." Or maybe there is less surplus because AP manufacturers are cutting back production now that the use of shuttle SRB's is going to zero for a while. Who knows. As for raising the base price of motors, they're already a pretty pricey luxury these days for many people. In business, the first rule is to survive. I think Gary just caught with his pants down, that's all. ;-) +McG+ > Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find within > a > month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic downturn > too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send us > is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? We > are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a period > of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if you're > up > front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP > second > hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited > period" > 20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then > they > should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling > this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them > green > until we clear from this down turn. > > Like having CP before CG... ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hornsby" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing > like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six > reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be > even less. Glad to see there are other options now. > > John H > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill Munds > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. > > Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. > > Bill > ------------- > From: > "Diane Carlson" > Subject: > Price Surcharge Notice > Date: > Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm > To: > "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada > Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" > ,"U.S. Distributors" > ,"International HP" > > Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to > obtain > Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price > and > with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid > propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has > seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. > As > a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the > sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This > cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years > for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some > form > of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a > 10% > surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit > orders. > We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because > we > believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. > AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and > we > are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term > solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will > continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced > quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall > suggested > retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech > products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer > Aerospace > Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar > City, > UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ > http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER > GOOD > Join me > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) -------------- next part -------------- Well, my view of this is that Gary is well on his way to surrendering the market to Anthony.? Anthony has started to really go after the market with his new 29mm line, the expanded 38mm-150mm line, and the merger with AMW.? Technologically, Anthony's motors are superior to Gary's (instant on and ease of construction); consumer-wise, they are more friendly than Gary's.? Soon, as to price, Anthony will also beat Gary.? If Gary intended that his dealers eat this cost without passing the surcharge onto the consumer then he's fooling himself.? And if I were the dealers, I would determine which product provides me a better return on investment and focus my efforts there. ? Jack ? In a message dated 6/24/2009 6:06:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bradwr at wrightholdings.com writes: hmmm,? well AT reloads are already a higher price than the comparable CTI..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:31 PM To: Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge A lot of pyro chemicals are surplus stuff.? There's a continual fluctuation in sources, prices, quality, and availability to repackagers and small businesses.? Maybe Gary's having a shortage because someone else got a "boatload."? Or maybe there is less surplus because AP manufacturers are cutting back production now that the use of shuttle SRB's is going to zero for a while.? Who knows. As for raising the base price of motors, they're already a pretty pricey luxury these days for many people. In business, the first rule is to survive.? I think Gary just caught with his pants down, that's all. ;-) +McG+ > Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find within > a > month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic downturn > too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send us > is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? We > are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a period > of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if you're > up > front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP > second > hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited > period" > 20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then > they > should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling > this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them > green > until we clear from this down turn. > > Like having CP before CG... ;-) > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hornsby" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing > like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six > reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be > even less. Glad to see there are other options now. > > John H > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill Munds > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. > > Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming again. > > Bill > ------------- > From: > "Diane Carlson" > Subject: > Price Surcharge Notice > Date: > Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm > To: > "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada > Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" > ,"U.S. Distributors" > ,"International HP" > > Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to > obtain > Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price > and > with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite solid > propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has > seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. > As > a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from the > sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. This > cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three years > for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some > form > of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a > 10% > surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit > orders. > We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because > we > believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. >? AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP and > we > are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term > solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge will > continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced > quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall > suggested > retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech > products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer > Aerospace > Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar > City, > UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ > http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER > GOOD > Join me > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Make your summer sizzle with http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005 fast and easy recipes for the grill. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 18:50:26 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:50:26 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge References: Message-ID: AeroTech needs to be honest. Tell us you're hurting, just like everyone. And tell us that for AT to stay in biz, they need to raise prices during this downturn. We may not like it and some may walk to CTI. But some of the AT users may accept and support. AT has some great products, and some will continue to buy them. No one is freed in this down turn, and when it's over - I'd like to still see the consumer division of AT survive. Gary needs to be honest. Bottom line. Might lose some biz. But they'll keep most of their market share if they come out and just say, "we're feeling the pain too." Bill PSP, I sure hope Gary gets a copy of this thread. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > Well, my view of this is that Gary is well on his way to surrendering the > market to Anthony. Anthony has started to really go after the market with > his new 29mm line, the expanded 38mm-150mm line, and the merger with AMW. > Technologically, Anthony's motors are superior to Gary's (instant on and > ease of construction); consumer-wise, they are more friendly than Gary's. > Soon, as to price, Anthony will also beat Gary. If Gary intended that > his > dealers eat this cost without passing the surcharge onto the consumer > then > he's fooling himself. And if I were the dealers, I would determine which > product provides me a better return on investment and focus my efforts > there. > > Jack > > > In a message dated 6/24/2009 6:06:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > bradwr at wrightholdings.com writes: > > hmmm, well AT reloads are already a higher price than the comparable > CTI..... > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:31 PM > To: Robert Krausert > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > A lot of pyro chemicals are surplus stuff. There's a continual > fluctuation in sources, prices, quality, and availability to repackagers > and small businesses. Maybe Gary's having a shortage because someone > else > got a "boatload." Or maybe there is less surplus because AP > manufacturers > are cutting back production now that the use of shuttle SRB's is going to > zero for a while. Who knows. > > As for raising the base price of motors, they're already a pretty pricey > luxury these days for many people. > > In business, the first rule is to survive. I think Gary just caught with > his pants down, that's all. ;-) > +McG+ > > >> Find it very interesting that second source AP is now hard to find > within >> a >> month of regulation changes. OK, I bet AT is feeling the economic > downturn >> too. If they were more honest, I'd feel better. All they'd need to send > us >> is, "Hey, we're hurting and can we raise prices until times get better? > We >> are sorry, but for us to survive, we need the increase prices for a > period >> of time." Tell us the truth. We'll back you up, maybe, but only if >> you're >> up >> front. Then I might be able to understand. I'm not sure I buy into AP >> second >> hand sources are dried up. If they truly have then why the "limited >> period" >> 20% charge to dealers? If having to single source AP is a reality, then >> they >> should just raise the prices on motors. Again, I believe they're feeling >> this economy and now with regs lifted, this extra 20% might keep them >> green >> until we clear from this down turn. >> >> Like having CP before CG... ;-) >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Hornsby" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> >> Sounds like AT is looking for ways to increase the prices again. Nothing >> like pricing yourselves out of business. I think I've only purchused six >> reloads from an AT dealer in the past three years. Looks like it will be >> even less. Glad to see there are other options now. >> >> John H >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Bill Munds >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:45 PM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> This was in my INBOX when Dave and I got back from Brothers. >> >> Not really good news to say the least. Looks like Gary is swimming >> again. >> >> Bill >> ------------- >> From: >> "Diane Carlson" >> Subject: >> Price Surcharge Notice >> Date: >> Thu, June 18, 2009 4:04 pm >> To: >> "All Dealers & HP Dealers" ,"Canada >> Distributor" ,"Canada High Power" >> ,"U.S. Distributors" >> ,"International HP" >> >> Dear AeroTech Representative, In the past, AeroTech has been able to >> obtain >> Ammonium Perchlorate (AP) through surplus markets at a reasonable price >> and >> with good quality. AP is an oxidizer used in all AeroTech composite >> solid >> propellant motors. Recently, however, the quality of this surplus AP has >> seen a serious decline and availability has become increasingly limited. >> As >> a result, AeroTech has been compelled to begin purchasing its AP from >> the >> sole source manufacturer in North America at greatly increased cost. >> This >> cost is more than double what AeroTech has paid over the past three >> years >> for AP and we can no longer afford to absorb this expense without some >> form >> of compensation. Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a >> 10% >> surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit >> orders. >> We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase >> because >> we >> believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary. >> AeroTech is actively searching for a lower-cost source of quality AP >> and >> we >> are making some progress toward that goal. However, this is a long-term >> solution that does not address the current dilemma. The 10% surcharge > will >> continue until we have located an alternate source of acceptably priced >> quality AP, or such time as we find it necessary to raise overall >> suggested >> retail prices. Thank you for your understanding and support of AeroTech >> products. Sincerely, Gary Rosenfield President, AeroTech Consumer >> Aerospace >> Division of RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc. 2113 W. 850 N. St. Cedar >> City, >> UT 84721 http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ >> http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com >> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood >> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE > GREATER >> GOOD >> Join me >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Wed Jun 24 19:24:06 2009 From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:24:06 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Message-ID: AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware. New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings. I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line. The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs. Weak. Reds are virtually indentical. Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g. What they do have going for them is skids. I will give them that. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) -------------- next part -------------- AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) From Jjcllc03 at aol.com Wed Jun 24 19:30:43 2009 From: Jjcllc03 at aol.com (Jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:30:43 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Message-ID: Okay, Lou...how about if CTI determines a way to make their reloads fit in AT cases? We already know CTI has done that with the 75mm and 98mm reloads. What would stop them from doing the same say for 54mm motors? Then the hardware argument becomes superfluous. Jack In a message dated 6/24/2009 7:25:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, IBELCHLOUD at aol.com writes: AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware. New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings. I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line. The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs. Weak. Reds are virtually indentical. Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g. What they do have going for them is skids. I will give them that. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware. New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings. I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line. The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs. Weak. Reds are virtually indentical. Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g. What they do have going for them is skids. I will give them that. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) -------------- next part -------------- Okay, Lou...how about if CTI determines a way to make their reloads fit in AT cases?? We already know CTI has done that with the 75mm and 98mm reloads.? What would stop them from doing the same say for 54mm motors?? Then the hardware argument becomes superfluous. ? Jack ? In a message dated 6/24/2009 7:25:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, IBELCHLOUD at aol.com writes: AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? Make your summer sizzle with http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005 fast and easy recipes for the grill. From bjarchow at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 19:29:52 2009 From: bjarchow at gmail.com (Brian Jarchow) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:29:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I hate to ask such an uninformed question, but does any other manufactuer make reloads that are compatible with Aerotech hardware? Brian On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:24 PM, wrote: > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own > their hardware. New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone > jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings. I personally don't see > much I like in CTI's line. The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their > blue is just like AMWs. Weak. Reds are virtually indentical. Classic is > b-o-r-i-n-g. What they do have going for them is skids. I will give them > that. > Lou -------------- next part -------------- I hate to ask such an uninformed question, but does any other manufactuer make reloads that are compatible with Aerotech hardware? Brian On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:24 PM, < mailto:IBELCHLOUD at aol.com IBELCHLOUD at aol.com > wrote: AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. Lou From mfreptiles at aol.com Wed Jun 24 20:22:07 2009 From: mfreptiles at aol.com (mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:22:07 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBC35B41059A36-B90-20E6@WEBMAIL-DF21.sysops.aol.com> I agree although I tend to think all commercial loads are b-o-r-i-n-g these days unless they are really fast loads or really long burn loads.? Weird how I like both extreme ends of the spectrum.??Or?over-engineered loads like dual thrust profile cored endburners, yeah baby.? Now if they started producing those with an aerospike nozzle I might actually fly a commercial load again.? :) I've got a few formulas and configurations that could give them a run for their money now that the LEMP is not needed.? Still have to deal with the DOT EX numbers for shipping though. Mike F. AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. Lou -----Original Message----- From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com To: Jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2009 7:24 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- I agree although I tend to think all commercial loads are b-o-r-i-n-g these days unless they are really fast loads or really long burn loads.? Weird how I like both extreme ends of the spectrum.??Or?over-engineered loads like dual thrust profile cored endburners, yeah baby.? Now if they started producing those with an aerospike nozzle I might actually fly a commercial load again.? :) I've got a few formulas and configurations that could give them a run for their money now that the LEMP is not needed.? Still have to deal with the DOT EX numbers for shipping though. Mike F. AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. Lou -----Original Message----- From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com To: Jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2009 7:24 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. ( http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005 http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005 ) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221900667x1201409530/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910242%3B38350777%3Bf Huge Savings on Popular Laptops only at Dell.com. Shop Now! From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 20:35:28 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:35:28 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge References: <8CBC35B41059A36-B90-20E6@WEBMAIL-DF21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <312A4E90AF4347A7B2FEF9669A12D631@LaptopKrausert> Mr. Neck Breaker, Mr. World Record Holder. Mr. Mach 3 Rocketry Guy, Mr. Faster Than Any Military (S to A and A to A) Rocket Guy, I witnessed the L 38mm flight. For one that sent a rocket up that hit one mile in less then 3 seconds and was no longer visable by me at four seconds, you have no worries. If you and Fred (TeamHardtail) started selling motors, individually of course, I'd certainly buy from both. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > I agree although I tend to think all commercial loads are b-o-r-i-n-g > these days unless they are really fast loads or really long burn loads.? > Weird how I like both extreme ends of the spectrum.??Or?over-engineered > loads like dual thrust profile cored endburners, yeah baby.? Now if they > started producing those with an aerospike nozzle I might actually fly a > commercial load again.? :) > > I've got a few formulas and configurations that could give them a run for > their money now that the LEMP is not needed.? Still have to deal with the > DOT EX numbers for shipping though. > > Mike F. > > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own > their > hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping > ship > simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like > in > CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just > like > AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? > What they > do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. > Lou > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com > To: Jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2009 7:24 pm > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own > their > hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone jumping > ship > simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I personally don't see much I like > in > CTI's line.? The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is just > like > AMWs.? Weak.? Reds are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? > What they > do have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. > Lou > ************** > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. > (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From brodwcjj at integrity.com Wed Jun 24 21:02:07 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:02:07 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge no whining from me. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090624230207.48567diboabg9d0k@wm.integrity.com> I agree Lou, it is sure true for me, I'm not buying new hardware because the dealers may or may not pass on the 20% surcharge which is probably temporary anyway. Considering all the other costs of the hobby I am NOT going to whine about an ~20% surcharge. Dustin Brown NAR-L2 > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:24:06 EDT > From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > To: Jjcllc03 at aol.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own > their hardware. New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see > everyone jumping > ship simply because of CTI's new offerings. I personally don't see much I > like in CTI's line. The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is > just like AMWs. Weak. Reds are virtually indentical. Classic is > b-o-r-i-n-g. What they do have going for them is skids. I will > give them that. > > Lou > > > ************** > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > -------------- next part -------------- > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still > own their hardware.?? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see > everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.?? I > personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.?? The White Thunder > and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.?? Weak.?? Reds > are virtually indentical.?? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.?? What they do > have going for them is skids.?? I will give them that. > Lou > ************** > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. > (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 17, Issue 48 > *************************************** > From t.j.doll at att.net Wed Jun 24 21:38:23 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:38:23 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... Message-ID: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. Suggestions? TIA Tim Doll NAR 18340 -------------- next part -------------- During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn Estes Titan IIIE.? It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan III.? One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons.?? But one issue I haven't resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges?? I'm unaware of any readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges.? I'd like to vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where?? The layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. ? Suggestions? ? TIA ? Tim Doll NAR 18340 From jjarmitage at earthlink.net Wed Jun 24 22:38:11 2009 From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:38:11 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... In-Reply-To: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <14AF5E5A5BB64CE59CB1A640B150B540@DellNotebook> We use C6-0's in Michael's 'Redemption' with a central F or G. Just use a little modeling clay to plug the top of the Estes cases Never been a problem john -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:38 PM To: Rocket Lost Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. Suggestions? TIA Tim Doll NAR 18340 From appusher at q.com Wed Jun 24 23:09:52 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:09:52 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge no whining from me. In-Reply-To: <20090624230207.48567diboabg9d0k@wm.integrity.com> References: <20090624230207.48567diboabg9d0k@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: Dustin, Just to clarify..... Clip " Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary." Unclip This is only charged to the dealers and distributors and not from consumer access such as ValueRockets.com. Dave and I haven't a confirmed stance on the 10% surcharge to us as dealers from Aerotech. There are a number of points for us to consider before making the decision one way or the other. Dave and I have, from the beginning, started PSP with the vision of supporting the NW Rocketeers. That means: Regional TARC Teams, NW Clubs where we actually are onsite and flying with the rest of you, New Fliers that need help with "just getting started" to achieving higher certifications. After a troubling few years for Dave and I with family issues, selling my home in Seattle, locating and moving into a property that would better work for my family issues and achieve a reasonable solution for storage and growth of Puget Sound Propulsion, we are finally in a position to do more for NW Rocketry. Like you said, Dustin, considering the other costs of associated with rocketry....10% isn't that bad. What do you spend on a rocket? Electronics? Transportation to and from the launch, club meetings, lawndarts? A friend commented to a lawndart recipient not long ago, " If that's a problem then you are in the wrong hobby". Also said," if you haven't had a lawn dart yet......you haven't launched enough rockets." Trying to get Rocketeers to agree on anything is like trying to herd cats. We all have our own truths about what is the "right way" to fly rockets. We are all friendly enough to answer the newbie questions with a little respect. Some will give you their opinion whether you ask for it or not.......and then be irate that you don't follow their advice. This surcharge business is disappointing, but how bad is it really? Specially after the BIG WIN with ATF. We will make a post to the list once we weigh all the options and decide how to handle it from our side of the hobby. Relax. This is supposed to be fun. Go build some rockets. Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:02:07 -0500 > From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge no whining from me. > > I agree Lou, it is sure true for me, > I'm not buying new hardware because the dealers may or may not pass on > the 20% surcharge which is probably temporary anyway. > Considering all the other costs of the hobby I am NOT going to whine > about an ~20% surcharge. > Dustin Brown > NAR-L2 > > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:24:06 EDT > > From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > To: Jjcllc03 at aol.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own > > their hardware. New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see > > everyone jumping > > ship simply because of CTI's new offerings. I personally don't see much I > > like in CTI's line. The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is > > just like AMWs. Weak. Reds are virtually indentical. Classic is > > b-o-r-i-n-g. What they do have going for them is skids. I will > > give them that. > > > > Lou > > > > > > ************** > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > > -------------- next part -------------- > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still > > own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see > > everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I > > personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder > > and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds > > are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do > > have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. > > Lou > > ************** > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. > > (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 17, Issue 48 > > *************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- Dustin, ? Just to clarify..... ? Clip " Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary." Unclip ? ? This is only charged to the dealers and distributors and not from consumer access such as ValueRockets.com. ? Dave and I haven't a confirmed stance on the 10% surcharge to us as dealers from Aerotech.? There are a?number of points for us to consider before making the decision one way or the other.?? ? Dave and I have, from the beginning, started PSP with the vision of supporting the NW Rocketeers. That means: Regional TARC Teams, NW Clubs where we actually are onsite and flying with the rest of you, ?New Fliers that need help with "just getting started" to achieving higher certifications. After a troubling few years for Dave and I with family issues, selling my home in Seattle, locating and moving into a property that would better work for my family issues and achieve a reasonable solution for storage and growth of Puget Sound Propulsion, we are finally in a position to do more for NW Rocketry. ? Like you said, Dustin, considering the other costs of associated with rocketry....10% isn't that bad. What do you spend on a rocket? Electronics? Transportation to and from the launch, club meetings, lawndarts? A friend commented to a lawndart recipient not long ago, " If that's a problem then you are in the wrong hobby". Also said," if you haven't had a lawn dart yet......you haven't launched enough rockets." ? Trying to get Rocketeers to agree on anything is like trying to herd cats.? We all have our own truths about what is the "right way" to fly rockets.? We are all friendly enough to answer the newbie questions with a little respect.? Some will give you their opinion whether you ask for it or not.......and then be irate that you don't follow their advice. ? This surcharge business is disappointing, but how bad is it really?? Specially after the BIG WIN with ATF. ? We will make a post to the list once we weigh all the options and decide how to handle it from our side of the hobby. ? Relax.? This is supposed to be fun.? Go build some rockets. ? mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me ? > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:02:07 -0500 > From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge no whining from me. > > I agree Lou, it is sure true for me, > I'm not buying new hardware because the dealers may or may not pass on > the 20% surcharge which is probably temporary anyway. > Considering all the other costs of the hobby I am NOT going to whine > about an ~20% surcharge. > Dustin Brown > NAR-L2 > > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:24:06 EDT > > From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > To: Jjcllc03 at aol.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own > > their hardware. New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see > > everyone jumping > > ship simply because of CTI's new offerings. I personally don't see much I > > like in CTI's line. The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is > > just like AMWs. Weak. Reds are virtually indentical. Classic is > > b-o-r-i-n-g. What they do have going for them is skids. I will > > give them that. > > > > Lou > > > > > > ************** > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > > -------------- next part -------------- > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still > > own their hardware.?? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see > > everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.?? I > > personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.?? The White Thunder > > and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.?? Weak.?? Reds > > are virtually indentical.?? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.?? What they do > > have going for them is skids.?? I will give them that. > > Lou > > ************** > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. > > (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 17, Issue 48 > > *************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lennyb at telus.net Wed Jun 24 23:22:47 2009 From: lennyb at telus.net (Len Bryan) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:22:47 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge no whining from me. In-Reply-To: References: <20090624230207.48567diboabg9d0k@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <8F922926212C45E99FF4446FA8A0F086@LBRYANT61> Maybe this increase is indeed at face value and truly intended to be a short term thing. I hope AT finds a solution. I?m an odd flier. I fly a lot of both CTI and Aerotech. I have 18mm to 98mm AT casings and I have 38mm to 98mm CTI casings. Cross certification is limited and I believe that AT will continue. That said, I have a loyalty to CTI and hope their 29mm lines are more competitive in the middle sizes than the 38mm lines are. I?ve been discussing more x-certified motors from CTI with one of them. They seem receptive but nothing confirmed. (I am just talking 98mm here). Len -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: June 24, 2009 11:10 PM To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge no whining from me. Dustin, Just to clarify..... Clip " Therefore effective immediately AeroTech will impose a 10% surcharge on all dealer and distributor rocket motor and reload kit orders. We have chosen to impose a surcharge rather than a price increase because we believe at this time that the AP cost issue may be temporary." Unclip This is only charged to the dealers and distributors and not from consumer access such as ValueRockets.com. Dave and I haven't a confirmed stance on the 10% surcharge to us as dealers from Aerotech. There are a number of points for us to consider before making the decision one way or the other. Dave and I have, from the beginning, started PSP with the vision of supporting the NW Rocketeers. That means: Regional TARC Teams, NW Clubs where we actually are onsite and flying with the rest of you, New Fliers that need help with "just getting started" to achieving higher certifications. After a troubling few years for Dave and I with family issues, selling my home in Seattle, locating and moving into a property that would better work for my family issues and achieve a reasonable solution for storage and growth of Puget Sound Propulsion, we are finally in a position to do more for NW Rocketry. Like you said, Dustin, considering the other costs of associated with rocketry....10% isn't that bad. What do you spend on a rocket? Electronics? Transportation to and from the launch, club meetings, lawndarts? A friend commented to a lawndart recipient not long ago, " If that's a problem then you are in the wrong hobby". Also said," if you haven't had a lawn dart yet......you haven't launched enough rockets." Trying to get Rocketeers to agree on anything is like trying to herd cats. We all have our own truths about what is the "right way" to fly rockets. We are all friendly enough to answer the newbie questions with a little respect. Some will give you their opinion whether you ask for it or not.......and then be irate that you don't follow their advice. This surcharge business is disappointing, but how bad is it really? Specially after the BIG WIN with ATF. We will make a post to the list once we weigh all the options and decide how to handle it from our side of the hobby. Relax. This is supposed to be fun. Go build some rockets. Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:02:07 -0500 > From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge no whining from me. > > I agree Lou, it is sure true for me, > I'm not buying new hardware because the dealers may or may not pass on > the 20% surcharge which is probably temporary anyway. > Considering all the other costs of the hobby I am NOT going to whine > about an ~20% surcharge. > Dustin Brown > NAR-L2 > > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:24:06 EDT > > From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > To: Jjcllc03 at aol.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own > > their hardware. New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see > > everyone jumping > > ship simply because of CTI's new offerings. I personally don't see much I > > like in CTI's line. The White Thunder and VMax are cool but their blue is > > just like AMWs. Weak. Reds are virtually indentical. Classic is > > b-o-r-i-n-g. What they do have going for them is skids. I will > > give them that. > > > > Lou > > > > > > ************** > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > > -------------- next part -------------- > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still > > own their hardware.? New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see > > everyone jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings.? I > > personally don't see much I like in CTI's line.? The White Thunder > > and VMax are cool but their blue is just like AMWs.? Weak.? Reds > > are virtually indentical.? Classic is b-o-r-i-n-g.? What they do > > have going for them is skids.? I will give them that. > > Lou > > ************** > > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. > > (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 17, Issue 48 > > *************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Thu Jun 25 02:03:18 2009 From: IBELCHLOUD at aol.com (IBELCHLOUD at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:03:18 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Message-ID: I'd probably buy some White Thunder and VMax reloads but stick with AT for the others. Especially Blue Thunder. Favorite propellant. Although lately, I have been thinking of getting some Loki hardware. About the larger motors being cross certified, I recall reading on one of the forums, either TRF or RP that they are going to stop doing that since the cost is quite prohibitive. Something like 6 loads of each propellant type have to be fired for cross certifications. Three each for each manufacturers hardware. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) -------------- next part -------------- I'd probably buy some White Thunder and VMax reloads but stick with AT for the others.? Especially Blue Thunder.? Favorite propellant.? Although lately, I have been thinking of getting some Loki hardware.? About the larger motors being cross certified, I recall reading on one of the forums, either TRF or RP that they are going to stop doing that since the cost is quite prohibitive.? Something like 6 loads of each propellant type have to be fired for cross certifications.? Three each for each manufacturers hardware. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) From rocfish74 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 25 05:16:32 2009 From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:16:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... In-Reply-To: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Tim, C6-0. Booster engines/motors. Put some dogbarf in the end and tape over it. No ejection charge, but it does burn through. Mark > From: t.j.doll at att.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:38:23 +0000 > Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... > > During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. > > Suggestions? > > TIA > > Tim Doll > NAR 18340 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 -------------- next part -------------- Tim, C6-0. Booster engines/motors. Put some dogbarf in the end and tape over it. No ejection charge, but it does burn through. ? Mark ? > From: t.j.doll at att.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:38:23 +0000 > Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... > > During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. > > Suggestions? > > TIA > > Tim Doll > NAR 18340 Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. From fred at azinger.com Thu Jun 25 07:02:19 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:02:19 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Video Posted to NW rocketry Image Gallery Message-ID: <003801c9f59d$8e863340$ab9299c0$@com> Posted two videos from Summer Skies -- my #3 Pencil and Vern's AngleFire.... -------------- next part -------------- Posted two videos from Summer Skies -- my #3 Pencil and Vern's AngleFire.... From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Thu Jun 25 07:07:26 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:07:26 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01ce01c9f59e$45e01100$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> The same way AeroTech makes reloads for AMW hardware: You make them and submit them for certification with the intended hardware they will be used in. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Brian Jarchow > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:30 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > I hate to ask such an uninformed question, but does any other manufactuer > make reloads that are compatible with Aerotech hardware? > > Brian > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:24 PM, wrote: > > > AT will still have plenty of business since quite a few people still own > > their hardware. New hardware is kinda spendy and I don't see everyone > > jumping ship simply because of CTI's new offerings. I personally don't > see > > much I like in CTI's line. The White Thunder and VMax are cool but > their > > blue is just like AMWs. Weak. Reds are virtually indentical. Classic > is > > b-o-r-i-n-g. What they do have going for them is skids. I will give > them > > that. > > Lou From jhadv at pacifier.com Thu Jun 25 07:58:36 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:58:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com> Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they said the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base materials is paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I suspect what happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but now that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to meet motor demand. So he needs to find new supply. With respect to Cessaroni it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in America. Period. For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good, consistent, highest quality, low price AP. Try and buy some in America and see what happens to you. In Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health care policies and so on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework doesn't allow it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor selection. However if the performance from one round to the next started to change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. From lennyb at telus.net Thu Jun 25 08:07:25 2009 From: lennyb at telus.net (Len Bryan) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:07:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <871089A8A04F4097B4BB02447A5968EF@LBRYANT61> I saw that on the forums as well but also found CTI to be interested in doing more. They didn't certify the 98mm 1G loads because they didn't have a casing. I think there is a solution for that now so maybe some day that will happen. Len -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of IBELCHLOUD at aol.com Sent: June 25, 2009 2:03 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge I'd probably buy some White Thunder and VMax reloads but stick with AT for the others. Especially Blue Thunder. Favorite propellant. Although lately, I have been thinking of getting some Loki hardware. About the larger motors being cross certified, I recall reading on one of the forums, either TRF or RP that they are going to stop doing that since the cost is quite prohibitive. Something like 6 loads of each propellant type have to be fired for cross certifications. Three each for each manufacturers hardware. Lou ************** Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) From jjcllc03 at aol.com Thu Jun 25 09:40:52 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:40:52 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he probably believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead of raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use a surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet. As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging about $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around $306.? The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, the AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in the AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear in the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). -----Original Message----- From: Paul Bogdanich To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they said the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base materials is paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I suspect what happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but now that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to meet motor demand. So he needs to find new supply. With respect to Cessaroni it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in America. Period. For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good, consistent, highest quality, low price AP. Try and buy some in America and see what happens to you. In Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health care policies and so on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework doesn't allow it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor selection. However if the performance from one round to the next started to change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging about $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around $306.? The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, the AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in the AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear in the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). -----Original Message----- From: Paul Bogdanich To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they said the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base materials is paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I suspect what happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but now that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to meet motor demand. So he needs to find new supply. With respect to Cessaroni it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in America. Period. For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good, consistent, highest quality, low price AP. Try and buy some in America and see what happens to you. In Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health care policies and so on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework doesn't allow it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor selection. However if the performance from one round to the next started to change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list [A] Rockets at rocketsnw.com [A] http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000038 get the Green Toolbar . From jjcllc03 at aol.com Thu Jun 25 09:49:24 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:49:24 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge...Oops! Message-ID: <8CBC3CC07E69C54-99C-2D9@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> I don't know how it happened...but the first part?of my last email on this was clipped out... "No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he probably believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead of raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use a surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet." -------------- next part -------------- "No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he probably believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead of raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use a surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet." Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000038 get the Green Toolbar . From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Thu Jun 25 09:56:09 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:56:09 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com> <8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> > He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the notice > was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry > Planet. Correct. And I was lambasted privately for sharing the information and labeled a "tabloid journalist." The dealer that sent me information will be eliminated: "Yes, we will find out who they are and they will lose their dealership (shouldn't be a big loss for them, clearly they don't value their dealership very much)." So to be a "valued" AeroTech dealer, you have to pledge allegiance to Cedar City and never disclose anything negative. I, on the other hand, think rocketeers deserve to know stuff such as this, especially if it will affect your hobby costs, but apparently AeroTech doesn't share this viewpoint. What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar information or just become a press release service? Disclose the negative or become a lap dog? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of jjcllc03 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:41 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not > planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP > that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have > arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he probably > believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the > permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead of > raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use a > surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the > brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the > dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to > hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not > to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet. > > As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT > 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging about > $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around $306.? > The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, the > AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So > you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in the > AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with > similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? > > So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear in > the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT > hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is > somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load > will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Bogdanich > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > > Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they said > the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of > AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base materials is > paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I suspect what > happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but > now > that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to meet > motor demand. So he needs to find new supply. With respect to Cessaroni > it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in > America. Period. For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good, > consistent, highest quality, low price AP. Try and buy some in America > and > see what happens to you. In Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of > materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health > care policies and so on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in > the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework > doesn't allow it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, > including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an > extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor > selection. However if the performance from one round to the next started > to change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable > performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Thu Jun 25 10:03:45 2009 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:03:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> <01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E7F@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> I think announcements like this should be disclosed by: The person or company that wrote the letter, if applicable. The person or company that received the letter, if applicable. I think it's up to those two parties do disclose any information about their business relationship. I think it's none of my business. steve -----Original Message----- From: Darrell D. Mobley [mailto:dmobley at rocketryplanet.com] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:56 AM To: jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the > notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like > Rocketry Planet. Correct. And I was lambasted privately for sharing the information and labeled a "tabloid journalist." The dealer that sent me information will be eliminated: "Yes, we will find out who they are and they will lose their dealership (shouldn't be a big loss for them, clearly they don't value their dealership very much)." So to be a "valued" AeroTech dealer, you have to pledge allegiance to Cedar City and never disclose anything negative. I, on the other hand, think rocketeers deserve to know stuff such as this, especially if it will affect your hobby costs, but apparently AeroTech doesn't share this viewpoint. What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar information or just become a press release service? Disclose the negative or become a lap dog? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of jjcllc03 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:41 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not > planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh > AP that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could > have arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he > probably believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for > all the permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? > So instead of raising his prices for his products across the board, he > decided to use a surcharge against the dealers either hoping the > dealers would bear the brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the > cost along or that the dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not > plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the notice was > sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet. > > As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT > 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging > about $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around $306.? > The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, > the AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is > $247.? So you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI > classic load in the AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 > different reloads with similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? > > So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI > gear in the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you > have AT hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT > hardware is somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the > classic load will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Bogdanich > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > > Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they > said the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply > of AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base > materials is paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I > suspect what happened is he used to be close to first in line for > shuttle excess but now that the shuttle is going away that supply is > no longer sufficient to meet motor demand. So he needs to find new > supply. With respect to Cessaroni it's easier to buy bulk chemical of > any sort in Canada than in America. Period. For example I bet the > Russians make a lot of good, consistent, highest quality, low price > AP. Try and buy some in America and see what happens to you. In > Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of materials, same cost of > labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health care policies and so > on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in the US anymore on > any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework doesn't allow > it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, including > me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an extra > 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor selection. > However if the performance from one round to the next started to > change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable > performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Thu Jun 25 10:05:31 2009 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:05:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> <01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E80@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar information or just become a press release service? Disclose the negative or become a lap dog? I would vote for press release service. With "service" being the opporative word. steve From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Thu Jun 25 10:11:38 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:11:38 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E80@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com><01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E80@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <01ff01c9f5b8$017e1ec0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Ok, the free Rocketry Planet will close on June 30th, 2009. The paid membership Rocketry Planet will open on July 1st. Membership will cost each recipient member $50/month. Enjoy your hobby. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:06 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar > information or just become a press release service? Disclose the > negative or become a lap dog? > > > I would vote for press release service. With "service" being the > opporative word. > > steve > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Thu Jun 25 10:13:34 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:13:34 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E7F@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com><01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E7F@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <020001c9f5b8$46c3bb70$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2917/29/ Read it. The announcement was not disclosed. The portions that could affect your hobby costs were. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:04 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > I think announcements like this should be disclosed by: > The person or company that wrote the letter, if applicable. > The person or company that received the letter, if applicable. > > I think it's up to those two parties do disclose any information about > their business relationship. > > I think it's none of my business. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darrell D. Mobley [mailto:dmobley at rocketryplanet.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:56 AM > To: jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the > > notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like > > Rocketry Planet. > > Correct. And I was lambasted privately for sharing the information and > labeled a "tabloid journalist." The dealer that sent me information > will be > eliminated: > > "Yes, we will find out who they are and they will lose their dealership > (shouldn't be a big loss for them, clearly they don't value their > dealership very much)." > > So to be a "valued" AeroTech dealer, you have to pledge allegiance to > Cedar City and never disclose anything negative. I, on the other hand, > think rocketeers deserve to know stuff such as this, especially if it > will affect your hobby costs, but apparently AeroTech doesn't share this > viewpoint. > > What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar > information or just become a press release service? Disclose the > negative or become a lap dog? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > > On Behalf Of jjcllc03 at aol.com > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:41 PM > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > > No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not > > planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh > > AP that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could > > have arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he > > > probably believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for > > > all the permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? > > So instead of raising his prices for his products across the board, he > > > decided to use a surcharge against the dealers either hoping the > > dealers would bear the brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the > > cost along or that the dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not > > plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the notice was > > sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry > Planet. > > > > As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT > > 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging > > about $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is > around $306.? > > The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, > > > the AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is > > $247.? So you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI > > classic load in the AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 > > different reloads with similar characteristics to the AT propellant > for the 4G system.? > > > > So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI > > gear in the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you > > have AT hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT > > hardware is somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the > > classic load will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload > won't). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Bogdanich > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > > > > > > Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they > > said the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply > > of AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base > > materials is paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I > > > suspect what happened is he used to be close to first in line for > > shuttle excess but now that the shuttle is going away that supply is > > no longer sufficient to meet motor demand. So he needs to find new > > supply. With respect to Cessaroni it's easier to buy bulk chemical of > > > any sort in Canada than in America. Period. For example I bet the > > Russians make a lot of good, consistent, highest quality, low price > > AP. Try and buy some in America and see what happens to you. In > > Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of materials, same cost of > > labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health care policies and so > > on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in the US anymore on > > > any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework doesn't allow > > > it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, including > > me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an extra > > 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor selection. > > However if the performance from one round to the next started to > > change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable > > performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu Jun 25 10:26:21 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:26:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <01ff01c9f5b8$017e1ec0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com><01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E80@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <01ff01c9f5b8$017e1ec0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Message-ID: <4A43B33D.8090306@hawkfeather.com> This is a temporary surcharge, right? Andrew ;) Darrell D. Mobley wrote: > Ok, the free Rocketry Planet will close on June 30th, 2009. > > The paid membership Rocketry Planet will open on July 1st. > > Membership will cost each recipient member $50/month. > > Enjoy your hobby. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:06 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar >> information or just become a press release service? Disclose the >> negative or become a lap dog? >> >> >> I would vote for press release service. With "service" being the >> opporative word. >> >> steve >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Thu Jun 25 10:33:49 2009 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:33:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <020001c9f5b8$46c3bb70$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com><01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E7F@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <020001c9f5b8$46c3bb70$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E81@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Um, you asked for our opinions. You didn't say I'd be personally attacked and there'd be demands made. ************************************************************************ *************** Quote: "What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar information..." ************************************************************************ *************** "Disclose" is the term I read. steve -----Original Message----- From: Darrell D. Mobley [mailto:dmobley at rocketryplanet.com] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:14 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2917/29/ Read it. The announcement was not disclosed. The portions that could affect your hobby costs were. From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Thu Jun 25 10:38:07 2009 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:38:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <4A43B33D.8090306@hawkfeather.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com><01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E80@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><01ff01c9f5b8$017e1ec0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <4A43B33D.8090306@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E83@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> sweeeeet. ;>) -----Original Message----- From: Andrew MacMillen [mailto:andrewm at hawkfeather.com] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:26 AM To: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge This is a temporary surcharge, right? Andrew ;) Darrell D. Mobley wrote: > Ok, the free Rocketry Planet will close on June 30th, 2009. > > The paid membership Rocketry Planet will open on July 1st. > > Membership will cost each recipient member $50/month. > > Enjoy your hobby. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:06 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar >> information or just become a press release service? Disclose the >> negative or become a lap dog? >> >> >> I would vote for press release service. With "service" being the >> opporative word. >> >> steve >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Thu Jun 25 10:42:59 2009 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:42:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <4A43B33D.8090306@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: I am so glad I don't buy commercial motors.... -- Peter Andrew MacMillen To Sent by: NorthWest Rocketry rockets-bounces at r ocketsnw.com cc Subject 06/25/2009 10:32 Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces AM Surcharge This is a temporary surcharge, right? Andrew ;) Darrell D. Mobley wrote: > Ok, the free Rocketry Planet will close on June 30th, 2009. > > The paid membership Rocketry Planet will open on July 1st. > > Membership will cost each recipient member $50/month. > > Enjoy your hobby. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:06 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar >> information or just become a press release service? Disclose the >> negative or become a lap dog? >> >> >> I would vote for press release service. With "service" being the >> opporative word. >> >> steve >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Thu Jun 25 10:44:59 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:44:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625102653.00c5fc98@mail.iinet.com> >And I was lambasted privately for sharing the information and labeled a >"tabloid journalist." The dealer that sent me information will be >eliminated: "Yes, we will find out who they are and they will lose their >dealership (shouldn't be a big loss for them, clearly they don't value >their dealership very much)." So help me out here. You publish a factual article on a temporary dealership surcharge. Apparently nobody disputes the factual content of the article. Everything is fine so far. Good reporting, factual content, good scoop. Then, this latest post where you post to a message board the contents of a private telephone conversation. This I do not understand. If the conversation went as you suggest then whomever you spoke to at AeroTech was either having a really stressful day or is very thin skinned about this kind of stuff. It's not his fault the price of AP is going up. As to the call you got, all industrial concerns complain about even marginally negative press; that's just routine. In anticipation of this expected event most reporters go so far as to call the subject of the article in advance of publishing the article to get their comments for incorporation into the article. Anyway, why are you adding fuel to the fire by posting details of a phone conversation? From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Thu Jun 25 10:49:36 2009 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:49:36 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625102653.00c5fc98@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625102653.00c5fc98@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E84@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Anyway, why are you adding fuel to the fire by posting details of a phone conversation? ?? steve From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Thu Jun 25 10:52:00 2009 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:52:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625102653.00c5fc98@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625102653.00c5fc98@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E85@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> "Anyway, why are you adding fuel to the fire by posting details of a phone conversation?" It's just one of the things that must be done when you're a "tabloid journalist." ;>) steve From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Thu Jun 25 11:17:43 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:17:43 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E81@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com><01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E7F@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><020001c9f5b8$46c3bb70$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E81@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <021301c9f5c1$3cc2c360$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Personally attacked? Demands? I've done neither. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:34 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > Um, you asked for our opinions. You didn't say I'd be personally > attacked and there'd be demands made. > > ************************************************************************ > *************** > Quote: "What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar > information..." > ************************************************************************ > *************** > > "Disclose" is the term I read. > > steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darrell D. Mobley [mailto:dmobley at rocketryplanet.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:14 AM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2917/29/ > > Read it. The announcement was not disclosed. The portions that could > affect your hobby costs were. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From jjcllc03 at aol.com Thu Jun 25 11:18:49 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:18:49 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E85@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625102653.00c5fc98@mail.iinet.com> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E85@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <8CBC3D885285917-15C4-16A8@webmail-dd11.sysops.aol.com> Darrell, Steve, folks... Let's not get personal here.? Let's ratchet this back a bit. Look, Darrell had every right to publish the article about the surcharges.? If dealers complained about this to Darrell and gave him the indication that costs to the consumer could rise as a result of this then that's news and we, the rocketry consumers, should know about that.? By knowing about the potential rise in cost, that may cause a consumer to reconsider the products he/she chooses to purchase and is part of the free market system which we all love here in the good ole U.S.A.? Well, free markets cannot work in the absence of solid information, so the flow of information is important for the economic system to work. As for Gary, if he didn't think that information like this would become public then he was not being realistic.? If I'm a dealer and my costs are going up, I will pass the charge onto the consumer.? Some of those consumers will ask questions about why my price is higher.? Do I tell them, "Well, I'm raising my prices because I'm trying to gouge you?"? No!? You tell them, "my manufacturer is raising his prices to me and since this is a low margin business, I have to pass the costs onto you."? So the story about the surcharge was going to get out...it was just a matter of time. As for the private phone conversation, again, how private can it be when you know you're talking to a reporter?? I've had experience with that and learned (the hard way) that it is not realistic to expect a reporter to keep something confidential unless you get that reporter to agree to confidentiality before you reveal the subject to him.? Now, I think it's legitimate news for people, particularly other dealers, to know if AT has expressed information concerning their belief that a dealer released the message about surcharges and wanted to dump a dealer for doing so.? We should remember that dealers are legitimate consumers of Darrell's website as well as we consumers and would want to use it as a conduit for information. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Bloom, Steven E To: Paul Bogdanich ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 10:52 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge "Anyway, why are you adding fuel to the fire by posting details of a phone conversation?" It's just one of the things that must be done when you're a "tabloid journalist." ;>) steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Let's not get personal here.? Let's ratchet this back a bit. Look, Darrell had every right to publish the article about the surcharges.? If dealers complained about this to Darrell and gave him the indication that costs to the consumer could rise as a result of this then that's news and we, the rocketry consumers, should know about that.? By knowing about the potential rise in cost, that may cause a consumer to reconsider the products he/she chooses to purchase and is part of the free market system which we all love here in the good ole U.S.A.? Well, free markets cannot work in the absence of solid information, so the flow of information is important for the economic system to work. As for Gary, if he didn't think that information like this would become public then he was not being realistic.? If I'm a dealer and my costs are going up, I will pass the charge onto the consumer.? Some of those consumers will ask questions about why my price is higher.? Do I tell them, "Well, I'm raising my prices because I'm trying to gouge you?"? No!? You tell them, "my manufacturer is raising his prices to me and since this is a low margin business, I have to pass the costs onto you."? So the story about the surcharge was going to get out...it was just a matter of time. As for the private phone conversation, again, how private can it be when you know you're talking to a reporter?? I've had experience with that and learned (the hard way) that it is not realistic to expect a reporter to keep something confidential unless you get that reporter to agree to confidentiality before you reveal the subject to him.? Now, I think it's legitimate news for people, particularly other dealers, to know if AT has expressed information concerning their belief that a dealer released the message about surcharges and wanted to dump a dealer for doing so.? We should remember that dealers are legitimate consumers of Darrell's website as well as we consumers and would want to use it as a conduit for information. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Bloom, Steven E To: Paul Bogdanich ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 10:52 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge "Anyway, why are you adding fuel to the fire by posting details of a phone conversation?" It's just one of the things that must be done when you're a "tabloid journalist." ;>) steve _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000038 get the Green Toolbar . From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Thu Jun 25 11:19:48 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:19:48 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625102653.00c5fc98@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625102653.00c5fc98@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <021a01c9f5c1$871e1a40$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Who said it was a phone call? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:45 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > >And I was lambasted privately for sharing the information and labeled a > >"tabloid journalist." The dealer that sent me information will be > >eliminated: "Yes, we will find out who they are and they will lose their > >dealership (shouldn't be a big loss for them, clearly they don't value > >their dealership very much)." > > So help me out here. You publish a factual article on a > temporary > dealership surcharge. Apparently nobody disputes the factual content of > the article. Everything is fine so far. Good reporting, factual content, > good scoop. Then, this latest post where you post to a message board the > contents of a private telephone conversation. This I do not > understand. If the conversation went as you suggest then whomever you > spoke to at AeroTech was either having a really stressful day or is very > thin skinned about this kind of stuff. It's not his fault the price of AP > is going up. As to the call you got, all industrial concerns complain > about even marginally negative press; that's just routine. In > anticipation > of this expected event most reporters go so far as to call the subject of > the article in advance of publishing the article to get their comments for > incorporation into the article. Anyway, why are you adding fuel to the > fire by posting details of a phone conversation? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Thu Jun 25 11:23:39 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:23:39 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E85@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625102653.00c5fc98@mail.iinet.com> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E85@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <021b01c9f5c2$10ef5270$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> It's strange, I wasn't being viewed as a "tabloid journalist" when I was being sent news links and videos of Paul Robinson's "prank" in New Hampshire. I guess it was ok to publish that because it was about someone else, instead of the other way around. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:52 PM > To: Paul Bogdanich; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > "Anyway, why are you adding fuel to the fire by posting details of a > phone conversation?" > > > It's just one of the things that must be done when you're a "tabloid > journalist." > > ;>) > steve > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmobley at rocketryplanet.com Thu Jun 25 11:24:22 2009 From: dmobley at rocketryplanet.com (Darrell D. Mobley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:24:22 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <4A43B33D.8090306@hawkfeather.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com><01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E80@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><01ff01c9f5b8$017e1ec0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <4A43B33D.8090306@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <022201c9f5c2$2af723f0$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> For some. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:26 PM > To: NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > This is a temporary surcharge, right? > > Andrew ;) > > Darrell D. Mobley wrote: > > Ok, the free Rocketry Planet will close on June 30th, 2009. > > > > The paid membership Rocketry Planet will open on July 1st. > > > > Membership will cost each recipient member $50/month. > > > > Enjoy your hobby. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets- > bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:06 PM > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > >> > >> What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar > >> information or just become a press release service? Disclose the > >> negative or become a lap dog? > >> > >> > >> I would vote for press release service. With "service" being the > >> opporative word. > >> > >> steve > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 13:30:45 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:30:45 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... References: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: That's a lot of hot gases to attempt to plug. The model glay idea should work. The pressure will eventually escape from the nozzle. But will it be fast enough? Honestly, I'm not sure. John and Mark obviously have experience with this need. My one idea is to use a C with the same delay as the primary 24mm motor. Glue a 12" piece of kevlar string between the side of the C motor and at the forward section of the C motor tube. The string will help friction fit the motor. And when the charge goes off, the motor pops out and hangs dangling from the rocket. Toss in a little dogbarf in before the motor to protect the glue point at the forward section of the motor tube. The motor clears out the pressure quickly and with the kevlar string, you don't have a spit-out motor falling to Earth. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rocket Lost" Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:38 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... > During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn > Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan > III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine > cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the > removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't > resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any > readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to > mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to > vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The > layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, > and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine > mount. > > Suggestions? > > TIA > > Tim Doll > NAR 18340 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. Suggestions? TIA Tim Doll NAR 18340 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 25 13:59:42 2009 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:59:42 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Man, you should go to work for CTI in their marketing department. I am already to put my Aerotech hardware on eBay and start over with CTI. -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:40 AM To: Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not > planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP > that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have > arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he probably > believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the > permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead of > raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use a > surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the > brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the > dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to > hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not > to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet. > > As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT > 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging about > $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around $306.? > The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, the > AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So > you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in the > AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with > similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? > > So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear in > the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT > hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is > somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load > will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Bogdanich > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > > Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they said > the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of > AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base materials is > paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I suspect what > happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but > now > that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to meet > motor demand. So he needs to find new supply. With respect to Cessaroni > it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in > America. Period. For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good, > consistent, highest quality, low price AP. Try and buy some in America > and > see what happens to you. In Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of > materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health > care policies and so on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in > the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework > doesn't allow it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, > including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an > extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor > selection. However if the performance from one round to the next started > to change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable > performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Thu Jun 25 14:05:21 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:05:21 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... In-Reply-To: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <00f601c9f5d8$a7348d70$f59da850$@net> Plug the front of a booster motor with about 1/4" of epoxy. I plug 4 of the motors in a 7 motor cluster because 7 ejection charges are just plain too much even if they are at slightly different times (scorched body tube). The three remaining do a fine job of ejecting the chute. Technically this is probably a modification of the motor, but it is just a more permanent version of a couple of the other suggestions. Just make sure clearly mark the motors as plugged because they will not work as a booster in a two stage. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:38 PM To: Rocket Lost Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. Suggestions? TIA Tim Doll NAR 18340 From winningstad at comcast.net Thu Jun 25 14:09:27 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:09:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... In-Reply-To: References: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <5C5BDDD831344F7DA7F83A4A393CA3E5@downstair> I remember the 'CHAD' booster of old...as in 'CHeap And Dirty'...for instance, take a Big Bertha and install a C6-7...yup a -7...then you slip a D12-0 over it and let 'er rip...fits perfect, you'd think it was designed that way...the booster 'stage' just falls. If you install the C6-7s with just enough friction to hold 'em in until the button is pushed...like, way-cool... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:31 PM To: t.j.doll at att.net; Rocket Lost Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... That's a lot of hot gases to attempt to plug. The model glay idea should work. The pressure will eventually escape from the nozzle. But will it be fast enough? Honestly, I'm not sure. John and Mark obviously have experience with this need. My one idea is to use a C with the same delay as the primary 24mm motor. Glue a 12" piece of kevlar string between the side of the C motor and at the forward section of the C motor tube. The string will help friction fit the motor. And when the charge goes off, the motor pops out and hangs dangling from the rocket. Toss in a little dogbarf in before the motor to protect the glue point at the forward section of the motor tube. The motor clears out the pressure quickly and with the kevlar string, you don't have a spit-out motor falling to Earth. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rocket Lost" Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:38 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... > During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn > Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan > III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine > cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the > removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't > resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any > readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to > mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to > vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The > layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, > and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine > mount. > > Suggestions? > > TIA > > Tim Doll > NAR 18340 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. Suggestions? TIA Tim Doll NAR 18340 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winningstad at comcast.net Thu Jun 25 14:14:31 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:14:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... In-Reply-To: <00f601c9f5d8$a7348d70$f59da850$@net> References: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <00f601c9f5d8$a7348d70$f59da850$@net> Message-ID: <9B87D3EB5DD943C0A4084504CD598029@downstair> Marty2, Use -0 engines and epoxy them... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Marty2 Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:05 PM To: 'Rocket Lost' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... Plug the front of a booster motor with about 1/4" of epoxy. I plug 4 of the motors in a 7 motor cluster because 7 ejection charges are just plain too much even if they are at slightly different times (scorched body tube). The three remaining do a fine job of ejecting the chute. Technically this is probably a modification of the motor, but it is just a more permanent version of a couple of the other suggestions. Just make sure clearly mark the motors as plugged because they will not work as a booster in a two stage. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:38 PM To: Rocket Lost Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to mess with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent the ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there would be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. Suggestions? TIA Tim Doll NAR 18340 _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jjcllc03 at aol.com Thu Jun 25 15:04:23 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:04:23 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: <8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CBC3F808080A66-1214-A67@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> Hello to a fellow Jack! As to working for CTI's marketing department, hey if the pay is good...? :-) Actually, they probably wouldn't have liked that I mentioned that only the Classic reload would work in a cross hardware situation.? According to their FAQ on the website, the White Thunder load for the 75-4G would also work for the 75/5120. And I certainly wouldn't dump my Aerotech hardware if I can get a CTI reload that would work with that hardware, too.? That way, I have more options on propellant open to me. Jack C. -----Original Message----- From: Jack Anderson To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; jjcllc03 at aol.com Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 1:59 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Man, you should go to work for CTI in their marketing department. I am already to put my Aerotech hardware on eBay and start over with CTI.? ? --------------------------------------------------? From: ? Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:40 AM? To: ? Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge? ? > No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not > planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP > that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have > arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he probably > believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the > permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead of > raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use a > surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the > brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the > dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to > hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not > to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet.? >? > As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT > 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging about > $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around $306.? > The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, the > AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So > you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in the > AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with > similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.?? >? > So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear in > the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT > hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is > somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load > will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't).? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: Paul Bogdanich ? > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com? > Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am? > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge? >? >? >? > Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they said? > the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of? > AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base materials is? > paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I suspect what? > happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but > now? > that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to meet? > motor demand. So he needs to find new supply. With respect to Cessaroni? > it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in? > America. Period. For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good,? > consistent, highest quality, low price AP. Try and buy some in America > and? > see what happens to you. In Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of? > materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health? > care policies and so on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in? > the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework? > doesn't allow it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People,? > including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an? > extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor? > selection. However if the performance from one round to the next started? > to change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable? > performance is the first order of business. In my opinion.? >? > _______________________________________________? > Rockets mailing list? > Rockets at rocketsnw.com? > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets? >? >? >? ? ? > _______________________________________________? > Rockets mailing list? > Rockets at rocketsnw.com? > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets? > -------------- next part -------------- As to working for CTI's marketing department, hey if the pay is good...? :-) Actually, they probably wouldn't have liked that I mentioned that only the Classic reload would work in a cross hardware situation.? According to their FAQ on the website, the White Thunder load for the 75-4G would also work for the 75/5120. And I certainly wouldn't dump my Aerotech hardware if I can get a CTI reload that would work with that hardware, too.? That way, I have more options on propellant open to me. Jack C. -----Original Message----- From: Jack Anderson To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; jjcllc03 at aol.com Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 1:59 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Man, you should go to work for CTI in their marketing department. I am already to put my Aerotech hardware on eBay and start over with CTI.? ? --------------------------------------------------? From: < [A] jjcllc03 at aol.com >? Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:40 AM? To: < [A] rockets at rocketsnw.com >? Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge? ? > No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not > planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP > that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have > arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he probably > believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the > permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead of > raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use a > surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the > brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the > dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to > hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not > to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet.? >? > As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT > 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging about > $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around $306.? > The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, the > AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So > you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in the > AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with > similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.?? >? > So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear in > the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT > hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is > somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load > will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't).? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: Paul Bogdanich < [A] jhadv at pacifier.com >? > To: [A] rockets at rocketsnw.com ? > Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am? > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge? >? >? >? > Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they said? > the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of? > AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base materials is? > paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I suspect what? > happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but > now? > that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to meet? > motor demand. So he needs to find new supply. With respect to Cessaroni? > it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in? > America. Period. For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good,? > consistent, highest quality, low price AP. Try and buy some in America > and? > see what happens to you. In Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of? > materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health? > care policies and so on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in? > the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework? > doesn't allow it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People,? > including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an? > extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor? > selection. However if the performance from one round to the next started? > to change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable? > performance is the first order of business. In my opinion.? >? > _______________________________________________? > Rockets mailing list? > [A] Rockets at rocketsnw.com ? > [A] http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? >? >? >? ? ? > _______________________________________________? > Rockets mailing list? > [A] Rockets at rocketsnw.com ? > [A] http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? > Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000038 get the Green Toolbar . From Mfreptiles at aol.com Thu Jun 25 16:03:30 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:03:30 EDT Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Message-ID: If you want options, get into Research. Then you can get rid of all that over-engineered/low pressure hardware. :) Mike F. In a message dated 6/25/2009 3:06:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jjcllc03 at aol.com writes: And I certainly wouldn't dump my Aerotech hardware if I can get a CTI reload that would work with that hardware, too.? That way, I have more options on propellant open to me. **************Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.dou bleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba) -------------- next part -------------- If you want options, get into Research. ? Then you can get rid of all that over-engineered/low pressure?hardware. :) ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 6/25/2009 3:06:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jjcllc03 at aol.com writes: And I certainly wouldn't dump my Aerotech hardware if I can get a CTI reload that would work with that hardware, too.? That way, I have more options on propellant open to me. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! From jjcllc03 at aol.com Thu Jun 25 16:27:54 2009 From: jjcllc03 at aol.com (jjcllc03 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:27:54 -0400 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBC403B3614BBD-1214-D2C@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> Okay, Mr. Scary's Daddy!? };-) -----Original Message----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 4:03 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge If you want options, get into Research. ? Then you can get rid of all that over-engineered/low pressure?hardware. :) ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 6/25/2009 3:06:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jjcllc03 at aol.com writes: And I certainly wouldn't dump my Aerotech hardware if I can get a CTI reload that would work with that hardware, too.? That way, I have more options on propellant open to me. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- -----Original Message----- From: Mfreptiles at aol.com To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 4:03 pm Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge If you want options, get into Research. ? Then you can get rid of all that over-engineered/low pressure?hardware. :) ? Mike F. ? In a message dated 6/25/2009 3:06:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mailto:jjcllc03 at aol.com jjcllc03 at aol.com writes: And I certainly wouldn't dump my Aerotech hardware if I can get a CTI reload that would work with that hardware, too.? That way, I have more options on propellant open to me. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets Save energy, paper and money -- http://toolbar.aol.com/green/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000038 get the Green Toolbar . From bigredbee at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 19:01:59 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:01:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF phone call -- cancelling my LEUP Message-ID: So my LEUP is set to expire in July. Received the renewal package, and decided I wasn't going to renew. Got a phone call to setup my once-every-three-year inspection, talked to Mike W at the PDX ATF office. Told him I wasn't going to renew since APCP is no longer regulated. In addition to pointing out that I still need a LEUP for 'ignitors, ematches, and BP', Mike said "Yes, APCP is temporarily off the list of regulated items". Hmmmmm temporarily? I didn't push it with any follow up questions. He also state the he would send me an envelope so that I could return my purchase records from the last three years, that seems reasonable. Has anyone had similar conversations recently? -- Greg (LEUP free!) Clark From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Jun 25 19:21:25 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com> <8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> <01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> Message-ID: <700b5890daf1ae96ae77bf6f26462af8.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Well, Darrell, you *could* do what a local newspaper editor called "gerbilism." (Oregonian, June 21, 2009): "I've decided 'gerbilism' is a pretty good word for what's been going on in the news media these days. Gerbilism is an apt term for something that's soft and warm and cuddly, safe and timid, with no sharp teeth and no bite whatsoever." But I'd rather see you continue to report useful news. +McG+ >> He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the >> notice >> was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry >> Planet. > > Correct. And I was lambasted privately for sharing the information and > labeled a "tabloid journalist." The dealer that sent me information will > be > eliminated: > > "Yes, we will find out who they are and they will lose their dealership > (shouldn't be a big loss for them, clearly they don't value their > dealership > very much)." > > So to be a "valued" AeroTech dealer, you have to pledge allegiance to > Cedar > City and never disclose anything negative. I, on the other hand, think > rocketeers deserve to know stuff such as this, especially if it will > affect > your hobby costs, but apparently AeroTech doesn't share this viewpoint. > > What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar > information > or just become a press release service? Disclose the negative or become a > lap dog? > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of jjcllc03 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:41 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not >> planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP >> that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have >> arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he >> probably >> believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the >> permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead >> of >> raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use >> a >> surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the >> brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the >> dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to >> hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech >> not >> to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet. >> >> As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT >> 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging >> about >> $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around >> $306.? >> The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, >> the >> AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So >> you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in >> the >> AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with >> similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? >> >> So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear >> in >> the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT >> hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is >> somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load >> will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Paul Bogdanich >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> >> >> Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they >> said >> the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of >> AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base materials >> is >> paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I suspect what >> happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but >> now >> that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to >> meet >> motor demand. So he needs to find new supply. With respect to >> Cessaroni >> it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in >> America. Period. For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good, >> consistent, highest quality, low price AP. Try and buy some in America >> and >> see what happens to you. In Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of >> materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health >> care policies and so on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything >> in >> the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal >> framework >> doesn't allow it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, >> including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think >> an >> extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor >> selection. However if the performance from one round to the next >> started >> to change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable >> performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Jun 25 19:48:15 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... In-Reply-To: <9B87D3EB5DD943C0A4084504CD598029@downstair> References: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <00f601c9f5d8$a7348d70$f59da850$@net> <9B87D3EB5DD943C0A4084504CD598029@downstair> Message-ID: <3b28903dca1d0730d56e51151fc80c0a.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> I remember discussions of whether or not gluing a string to the outside of a motor constituted a prohibited modification. Filling a booster motor with epoxy certainly does, but it's commonly done to correct, uh, 'manufacturer oversight' in product line. Me, if I could, I'd let the ejection charges pop out the casings during ascent to give that little extra boost. But some RSO's whine about spent casings raining down like hail. Picky, picky. ;-) There was once a long discussion on ROL about whether or not 18- and 24mm paper casings tumbling back to earth posed a hazard. Conclusion was that they weren't a significant medical risk but would hurt. BONK! That said, I've CHAD staged a few rockets at OROC launches where the casing would stay well away from spectators. It's the littering aspect that I don't like about it. Never found any of the dropped casings. Faced with the need for plugged C's, I'd epoxy -0 motors. Don't need any stray hot gas with sparks flowing through places it doesn't need to be. Sure don't need ejection charges blowing out nozzles because the 'big hole end' of the motor was plugged. +McG+ > Marty2, > > Use -0 engines and epoxy them... > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Marty2 > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:05 PM > To: 'Rocket Lost' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... > > Plug the front of a booster motor with about 1/4" of epoxy. I plug 4 of > the > motors in a 7 motor cluster because 7 ejection charges are just plain too > much even if they are at slightly different times (scorched body tube). > The > three remaining do a fine job of ejecting the chute. Technically this is > probably a modification of the motor, but it is just a more permanent > version of a couple of the other suggestions. Just make sure clearly mark > the motors as plugged because they will not work as a booster in a two > stage. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:38 PM > To: Rocket Lost > Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... > > During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn > Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan > III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine > cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the > removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't > resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any > readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to > mess > with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent > the > ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the > rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there > would > be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. > > Suggestions? > > TIA > > Tim Doll > NAR 18340 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From sales at pvconly.com Thu Jun 25 20:07:56 2009 From: sales at pvconly.com (sales at pvconly.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Message-ID: <734593.62853.qm@web1212.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> "The dealer that sent me information will?be?eliminated:" ? Don't you mean "ejected"? ? Be glad Gary is not Russian, or the dealer might be liquidated. 8^{P --- On Thu, 6/25/09, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge To: "Darrell D. Mobley" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 7:21 PM Well, Darrell, you *could* do what a local newspaper editor called "gerbilism."? (Oregonian, June 21, 2009): "I've decided 'gerbilism' is a pretty good word for what's been going on in the news media these days.? Gerbilism is an apt term for something that's soft and warm and cuddly, safe and timid, with no sharp teeth and no bite whatsoever." But I'd rather see you continue to report useful news. +McG+ >> He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the >> notice >> was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry >> Planet. > > Correct.? And I was lambasted privately for sharing the information and > labeled a "tabloid journalist."? The dealer that sent me information will > be > eliminated: > > "Yes, we will find out who they are and they will lose their dealership > (shouldn't be a big loss for them, clearly they don't value their > dealership > very much)." > > So to be a "valued" AeroTech dealer, you have to pledge allegiance to > Cedar > City and never disclose anything negative. I, on the other hand, think > rocketeers deserve to know stuff such as this, especially if it will > affect > your hobby costs, but apparently AeroTech doesn't share this viewpoint. > > What do you all think I should do?? Continue to disclose similar > information > or just become a press release service?? Disclose the negative or become a > lap dog? > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of jjcllc03 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:41 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not >> planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP >> that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have >> arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he >> probably >> believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the >> permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead >> of >> raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use >> a >> surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the >> brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the >> dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to >> hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech >> not >> to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet. >> >> As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT >> 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging >> about >> $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around >> $306.? >> The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, >> the >> AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So >> you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in >> the >> AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with >> similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? >> >> So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear >> in >> the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT >> hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is >> somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load >> will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Paul Bogdanich >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> >> >> Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they >> said >> the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of >> AP.? When making things like this the consistency of the base materials >> is >> paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics.? I suspect what >> happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but >> now >> that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to >> meet >> motor demand.? So he needs to find new supply.? With respect to >> Cessaroni >> it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in >> America.? Period.? For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good, >> consistent, highest quality, low price AP.? Try and buy some in America >> and >> see what happens to you.? In Canada much fewer problems.? Lower cost of >> materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health >> care policies and so on.? It's just plain hard to manufacture anything >> in >> the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale.? The basic legal >> framework >> doesn't allow it.? As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it.? People, >> including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets.? I don't think >> an >> extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor >> selection.? However if the performance from one round to the next >> started >> to change than would change my motor selection.? Predictable, reliable >> performance is the first order of business.? In my opinion. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? -------------- next part -------------- "The dealer that sent me information will?be?eliminated:" ? Don't you mean "ejected"? ? Be glad Gary is not Russian, or the dealer might be liquidated. 8^{P --- On Thu, 6/25/09, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge To: "Darrell D. Mobley" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 7:21 PM Well, Darrell, you *could* do what a local newspaper editor called "gerbilism."? (Oregonian, June 21, 2009): "I've decided 'gerbilism' is a pretty good word for what's been going on in the news media these days.? Gerbilism is an apt term for something that's soft and warm and cuddly, safe and timid, with no sharp teeth and no bite whatsoever." But I'd rather see you continue to report useful news. +McG+ >> He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the >> notice >> was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry >> Planet. > > Correct.? And I was lambasted privately for sharing the information and > labeled a "tabloid journalist."? The dealer that sent me information will > be > eliminated: > > "Yes, we will find out who they are and they will lose their dealership > (shouldn't be a big loss for them, clearly they don't value their > dealership > very much)." > > So to be a "valued" AeroTech dealer, you have to pledge allegiance to > Cedar > City and never disclose anything negative. I, on the other hand, think > rocketeers deserve to know stuff such as this, especially if it will > affect > your hobby costs, but apparently AeroTech doesn't share this viewpoint. > > What do you all think I should do?? Continue to disclose similar > information > or just become a press release service?? Disclose the negative or become a > lap dog? > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto: http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] >> On Behalf Of http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jjcllc03 at aol.com jjcllc03 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:41 PM >> To: http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not >> planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP >> that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have >> arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he >> probably >> believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the >> permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead >> of >> raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use >> a >> surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the >> brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the >> dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to >> hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech >> not >> to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet. >> >> As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT >> 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging >> about >> $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around >> $306.? >> The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, >> the >> AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So >> you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in >> the >> AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with >> similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? >> >> So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear >> in >> the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT >> hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is >> somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load >> will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Paul Bogdanich < http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jhadv at pacifier.com jhadv at pacifier.com > >> To: http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge >> >> >> >> Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they >> said >> the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of >> AP.? When making things like this the consistency of the base materials >> is >> paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics.? I suspect what >> happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but >> now >> that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to >> meet >> motor demand.? So he needs to find new supply.? With respect to >> Cessaroni >> it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in >> America.? Period.? For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good, >> consistent, highest quality, low price AP.? Try and buy some in America >> and >> see what happens to you.? In Canada much fewer problems.? Lower cost of >> materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health >> care policies and so on.? It's just plain hard to manufacture anything >> in >> the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale.? The basic legal >> framework >> doesn't allow it.? As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it.? People, >> including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets.? I don't think >> an >> extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor >> selection.? However if the performance from one round to the next >> started >> to change than would change my motor selection.? Predictable, reliable >> performance is the first order of business.? In my opinion. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list http://us.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 20:12:59 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:12:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... References: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net><00f601c9f5d8$a7348d70$f59da850$@net><9B87D3EB5DD943C0A4084504CD598029@downstair> <3b28903dca1d0730d56e51151fc80c0a.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: OK, as I mentioned - I was offering a suggestion. Gluing a kevler string to the side of the case isn't a functional mod. Just prevents Earth hits. I recently got hit by a spit C motor. I was looking up and at the very last moment saw it and looked forward. Smacked me in the head. If I was still looking up, it might have been worse. True, it was a just a bump, no more. But a hit in the eye by a spit motor might have been worse. I'd refuse to RSO approve any flyer with a motor known to spit out. Multi stage rockets normally have fin cans to spin and tumble down. At least in low power versions. That's just me. Getting hit was not a biggie. The biggie was it could have been a kid and could have been in the face. Being a member of this club, I strive to avoid risk and no less. Bottom line OROC will play safety and safety codes before anything else. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... >I remember discussions of whether or not gluing a string to the outside of > a motor constituted a prohibited modification. Filling a booster motor > with epoxy certainly does, but it's commonly done to correct, uh, > 'manufacturer oversight' in product line. > > Me, if I could, I'd let the ejection charges pop out the casings during > ascent to give that little extra boost. But some RSO's whine about spent > casings raining down like hail. Picky, picky. ;-) There was once a long > discussion on ROL about whether or not 18- and 24mm paper casings tumbling > back to earth posed a hazard. Conclusion was that they weren't a > significant medical risk but would hurt. BONK! > > That said, I've CHAD staged a few rockets at OROC launches where the > casing would stay well away from spectators. It's the littering aspect > that I don't like about it. Never found any of the dropped casings. > > Faced with the need for plugged C's, I'd epoxy -0 motors. Don't need any > stray hot gas with sparks flowing through places it doesn't need to be. > Sure don't need ejection charges blowing out nozzles because the 'big hole > end' of the motor was plugged. > +McG+ > > >> Marty2, >> >> Use -0 engines and epoxy them... >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> 503-781-3529 >> >> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Marty2 >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:05 PM >> To: 'Rocket Lost' >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... >> >> Plug the front of a booster motor with about 1/4" of epoxy. I plug 4 of >> the >> motors in a 7 motor cluster because 7 ejection charges are just plain too >> much even if they are at slightly different times (scorched body tube). >> The >> three remaining do a fine job of ejecting the chute. Technically this is >> probably a modification of the motor, but it is just a more permanent >> version of a couple of the other suggestions. Just make sure clearly >> mark >> the motors as plugged because they will not work as a booster in a two >> stage. >> >> Marty >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net >> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:38 PM >> To: Rocket Lost >> Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... >> >> During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my well-worn >> Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement Titan >> III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 engine >> cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the >> removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I haven't >> resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any >> readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to >> mess >> with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent >> the >> ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of the >> rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there >> would >> be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. >> >> Suggestions? >> >> TIA >> >> Tim Doll >> NAR 18340 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bigredbee at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 21:37:51 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:37:51 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] calling Gary Lech, Doug Stuivenga Message-ID: please contact me off list Greg Clark OregonRocketry From jhadv at pacifier.com Fri Jun 26 07:32:25 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:32:25 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CTI MOTORS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090626072729.00bd5580@mail.iinet.com> I just got a longish CTI 54mm case in the mail yesterday, brand new from a vendor, and the case has deep scratches (like > .010 inch) that were in there before the anodizing was applied. So it appears to be a manufacturing / QC defect. Two questions, (1) is this common; has this happened to anyone else and (2) what kind of shit is that? Ridiculous. Now I have to ship it back get a new one and so on. Not good. Blemishes in the anodizing I am used to but deep scratches in the case material? I think not. From t.j.doll at att.net Fri Jun 26 11:00:52 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:00:52 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 18mm RMS Hardware Message-ID: <062620091800.23194.4A450CD400065F4C00005A9A22230680329B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> I was just on-line looking for a replacement for the AeroTech 18mm RMS casing I apparently lost at FITS. It appears everyone shows it as "out of stock", and one web site listed it as "discontinued". What the heck? I'm not that worried if AeroTech raises their reload prices 10% due to the cost of AP - if the price is too high the market will correct it. But why would they discontinue a product that has no competition? I've got several 18mm mount rockets that the only realistic way to fly them is with a D. I know Apogee has single use 18mm D's, but they are expensive - up there with a F or G reload. Tim -------------- next part -------------- I was just on-line looking for a replacement for the AeroTech 18mm RMS casing I apparently lost at FITS.? It appears everyone shows it as "out of stock", and one web site listed it as "discontinued". ? What the heck?? I'm not that worried if AeroTech raises their reload prices?10% due to the cost of AP - if the price is too high the market will correct it.? But why would they discontinue a product that has no competition?? I've got several 18mm mount rockets that the only realistic way to fly them is with a D.? I know Apogee has single use 18mm D's, but they are expensive - up there with a F or G reload. ? Tim From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Fri Jun 26 11:55:00 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:55:00 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CTI MOTORS In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090626072729.00bd5580@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090626072729.00bd5580@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: That is not good My guess it did not come from a NW vendor....... >I just got a longish CTI 54mm case in the mail yesterday, brand new from a >vendor, and the case has deep scratches (like > .010 inch) that were in >there before the anodizing was applied. So it appears to be a >manufacturing / QC defect. Two questions, (1) is this common; has this >happened to anyone else and (2) what kind of shit is >that? Ridiculous. Now I have to ship it back get a new one and so >on. Not good. Blemishes in the anodizing I am used to but deep scratches >in the case material? I think not. > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Fri Jun 26 12:03:29 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:03:29 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 18mm RMS Hardware In-Reply-To: <062620091800.23194.4A450CD400065F4C00005A9A22230680329B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404 010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <062620091800.23194.4A450CD400065F4C00005A9A22230680329B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404 010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Not sure where you are looking, but we have them stock, and AT and Rouse Tech has them too. Reloads have dried up at dealers, because most don't want to compete with Value Rockets. However, we have them all in stock.............. >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 7bit by reformime >(rfc2045lib 0.20) > >I was just on-line looking for a replacement for the AeroTech 18mm >RMS casing I apparently lost at FITS. It appears everyone shows it >as "out of stock", and one web site listed it as "discontinued". > >What the heck? I'm not that worried if AeroTech raises their reload >prices 10% due to the cost of AP - if the price is too high the >market will correct it. But why would they discontinue a product >that has no competition? I've got several 18mm mount rockets that >the only realistic way to fly them is with a D. I know Apogee has >single use 18mm D's, but they are expensive - up there with a F or G >reload. > >Tim > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by reformime >(rfc2045lib 0.20) > >I was just on-line looking for a replacement for the AeroTech 18mm >RMS casing I apparently lost at FITS.? It appears everyone shows it >as "out of stock", and one web site listed it as "discontinued". >? >What the heck?? I'm not that worried if AeroTech raises their reload >prices?10% due to the cost of AP - if the price is too high the >market will correct it.? But why would they discontinue a product >that has no competition?? I've got several 18mm mount rockets that >the only realistic way to fly them is with a D.? I know Apogee has >single use 18mm D's, but they are expensive - up there with a F or G >reload. >? >Tim > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lennyb at telus.net Fri Jun 26 13:10:08 2009 From: lennyb at telus.net (Len Bryan) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:10:08 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 18mm RMS Hardware In-Reply-To: <062620091800.23194.4A450CD400065F4C00005A9A22230680329B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> References: <062620091800.23194.4A450CD400065F4C00005A9A22230680329B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <989D9C5A41954782BD2B998A0091DD33@LBRYANT61> I don't think they have been discontinued by Aerotech, just by that dealer. There are also some 18mm single use D's at www.valuerockets.com You can order the 18mm casing there also for $29.99. Len Bryan -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net Sent: June 26, 2009 11:01 AM To: Rocket Lost Subject: [RocketsNW] 18mm RMS Hardware I was just on-line looking for a replacement for the AeroTech 18mm RMS casing I apparently lost at FITS. It appears everyone shows it as "out of stock", and one web site listed it as "discontinued". What the heck? I'm not that worried if AeroTech raises their reload prices 10% due to the cost of AP - if the price is too high the market will correct it. But why would they discontinue a product that has no competition? I've got several 18mm mount rockets that the only realistic way to fly them is with a D. I know Apogee has single use 18mm D's, but they are expensive - up there with a F or G reload. Tim From lennyb at telus.net Fri Jun 26 13:11:24 2009 From: lennyb at telus.net (Len Bryan) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:11:24 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] 18mm RMS Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <062620091800.23194.4A450CD400065F4C00005A9A22230680329B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: Even better! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob Grossfeld Sent: June 26, 2009 12:03 PM To: rockets northwest Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 18mm RMS Hardware Not sure where you are looking, but we have them stock, and AT and Rouse Tech has them too. Reloads have dried up at dealers, because most don't want to compete with Value Rockets. However, we have them all in stock.............. >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 7bit by reformime >(rfc2045lib 0.20) > >I was just on-line looking for a replacement for the AeroTech 18mm >RMS casing I apparently lost at FITS. It appears everyone shows it >as "out of stock", and one web site listed it as "discontinued". > >What the heck? I'm not that worried if AeroTech raises their reload >prices 10% due to the cost of AP - if the price is too high the >market will correct it. But why would they discontinue a product >that has no competition? I've got several 18mm mount rockets that >the only realistic way to fly them is with a D. I know Apogee has >single use 18mm D's, but they are expensive - up there with a F or G >reload. > >Tim > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >X-Mime-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by reformime >(rfc2045lib 0.20) > >I was just on-line looking for a replacement for the AeroTech 18mm >RMS casing I apparently lost at FITS.? It appears everyone shows it >as "out of stock", and one web site listed it as "discontinued". >? >What the heck?? I'm not that worried if AeroTech raises their reload >prices?10% due to the cost of AP - if the price is too high the >market will correct it.? But why would they discontinue a product >that has no competition?? I've got several 18mm mount rockets that >the only realistic way to fly them is with a D.? I know Apogee has >single use 18mm D's, but they are expensive - up there with a F or G >reload. >? >Tim > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From t.j.doll at att.net Fri Jun 26 14:41:57 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:41:57 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] 18mm RMS Hardware In-Reply-To: <989D9C5A41954782BD2B998A0091DD33@LBRYANT61> References: <062620091800.23194.4A450CD400065F4C00005A9A22230680329B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> <989D9C5A41954782BD2B998A0091DD33@LBRYANT61> Message-ID: <062620092141.6752.4A4540A500030EFB00001A6022228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> I think this may explain it - since AeroTech launched valuerockets their prices are so much lower than even the discount places no one can compete so they're getting out of the small AP stuff (I'm guessing that valuerockets.com is selling retail at what used to be the dealer price). Anyway, just ordered from valuerockets - thanks everyone. Tim -------------- Original message from "Len Bryan" : -------------- > I don't think they have been discontinued by Aerotech, just by that dealer. > There are also some 18mm single use D's at www.valuerockets.com > You can order the 18mm casing there also for $29.99. > > Len Bryan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net > Sent: June 26, 2009 11:01 AM > To: Rocket Lost > Subject: [RocketsNW] 18mm RMS Hardware > > I was just on-line looking for a replacement for the AeroTech 18mm RMS > casing I apparently lost at FITS. It appears everyone shows it as "out of > stock", and one web site listed it as "discontinued". > > What the heck? I'm not that worried if AeroTech raises their reload prices > 10% due to the cost of AP - if the price is too high the market will correct > it. But why would they discontinue a product that has no competition? I've > got several 18mm mount rockets that the only realistic way to fly them is > with a D. I know Apogee has single use 18mm D's, but they are expensive - > up there with a F or G reload. > > Tim > -------------- next part -------------- I think this may explain it - since AeroTech launched valuerockets their prices are so much lower than even the discount places no one can compete so they're getting out of the small AP stuff (I'm guessing that valuerockets.com is selling retail at what used to be the dealer price). ? Anyway, just ordered from valuerockets - thanks everyone. ? Tim -------------- Original message from "Len Bryan" : -------------- > I don't think they have been discontinued by Aerotech, just by that dealer. > There are also some 18mm single use D's at www.valuerockets.com > You can order the 18mm casing there also for $29.99. > > Len Bryan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net > Sent: June 26, 2009 11:01 AM > To: Rocket Lost > Subject: [RocketsNW] 18mm RMS Hardware > > I was just on-line looking for a replacement for the AeroTech 18mm RMS > casing I apparently lost at FITS. It appears everyone shows it as "out of > stock", and one web site listed it as "discontinued". > > What the heck? I'm not that worried if AeroTech raises their reload prices > 10% due to the cost of AP - if the price is too high the market will correct > it. But why would they discontinue a product that has no competition? I've > got several 18mm mount rockets that the only realistic way to fly them is > with a D. I know Apogee has single use 18mm D's, but they are expensive - > up there with a F or G reload. > > Tim > From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Fri Jun 26 15:28:52 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:28:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Free portable shade Message-ID: <004201c9f6ad$7c428880$74c79980$@net> I have a canopy that I don't use anymore like the one in the link below. The frame needs to be assembled from segments of aluminum poles. One of the segments is broken and since I don't use it I'm not going to fix it, while at the same time I don't want it to just end up in a landfill. I'm offering it to the NW rocket community first and then it will go on Craigslist. Send me a mail off list if you are interested. http://www.canopycenter.com/canopies/party-tents/8x8greenwhitecanopy.cfm -------------- next part -------------- I have a canopy that I don???t use anymore like the one in the link below. The frame needs to be assembled from segments of aluminum poles. One of the segments is broken and since I don???t use it I???m not going to fix it, while at the same time I don???t want it to just end up in a landfill. I???m offering it to the NW rocket community first and then it will go on Craigslist. Send me a mail off list if you are interested. ? ? http://www.canopycenter.com/canopies/party-tents/8x8greenwhitecanopy.cfm From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri Jun 26 17:58:50 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:58:50 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] LDRS Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209916E237@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> Is anyone from the PacNW attending this year??? Please reply to me directly. thx Brad Wright -------------- next part -------------- Is anyone from the PacNW attending this year???? Please reply to me directly. ? thx Brad Wright ? From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri Jun 26 18:15:15 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:15:15 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com> <8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209916E289@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> All the 75mm and 98mm CTI reloads will work in all AT compatible HW as well as CTI hw. so if you buy AT compat hw you get everything in these sizes. b -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of jjcllc03 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:41 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh AP that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could have arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he probably believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for all the permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? So instead of raising his prices for his products across the board, he decided to use a surcharge against the dealers either hoping the dealers would bear the brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the cost along or that the dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet. As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging about $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around $306.? The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, the AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is $247.? So you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI classic load in the AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 different reloads with similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI gear in the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you have AT hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT hardware is somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the classic load will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). -----Original Message----- From: Paul Bogdanich To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they said the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply of AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base materials is paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I suspect what happened is he used to be close to first in line for shuttle excess but now that the shuttle is going away that supply is no longer sufficient to meet motor demand. So he needs to find new supply. With respect to Cessaroni it's easier to buy bulk chemical of any sort in Canada than in America. Period. For example I bet the Russians make a lot of good, consistent, highest quality, low price AP. Try and buy some in America and see what happens to you. In Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of materials, same cost of labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health care policies and so on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in the US anymore on any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework doesn't allow it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, including me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an extra 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor selection. However if the performance from one round to the next started to change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri Jun 26 18:16:24 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:16:24 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E7F@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090625074432.00c206a8@mail.iinet.com><8CBC3CAD6367AFE-99C-26A@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> <01fb01c9f5b5$d7a74880$6401a8c0@HPPAVILION> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121E7F@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209916E2A6@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> it's the job of the press to find out more than what companies publicly disclose. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:04 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge I think announcements like this should be disclosed by: The person or company that wrote the letter, if applicable. The person or company that received the letter, if applicable. I think it's up to those two parties do disclose any information about their business relationship. I think it's none of my business. steve -----Original Message----- From: Darrell D. Mobley [mailto:dmobley at rocketryplanet.com] Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:56 AM To: jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > He did not plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the > notice was sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like > Rocketry Planet. Correct. And I was lambasted privately for sharing the information and labeled a "tabloid journalist." The dealer that sent me information will be eliminated: "Yes, we will find out who they are and they will lose their dealership (shouldn't be a big loss for them, clearly they don't value their dealership very much)." So to be a "valued" AeroTech dealer, you have to pledge allegiance to Cedar City and never disclose anything negative. I, on the other hand, think rocketeers deserve to know stuff such as this, especially if it will affect your hobby costs, but apparently AeroTech doesn't share this viewpoint. What do you all think I should do? Continue to disclose similar information or just become a press release service? Disclose the negative or become a lap dog? > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of jjcllc03 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:41 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > No, I think Gary didn't plan well and this is the result of his not > planning well.? Gary had been buying surplus AP rather than the fresh > AP that CTI uses and the surplus AP source began to dry up.? He could > have arranged to replace this source with Chinese or Russian AP but he > probably believes it would be costly and time consuming to arrange for > all the permits and paperwork required to buy from foreign sources.? > So instead of raising his prices for his products across the board, he > decided to use a surcharge against the dealers either hoping the > dealers would bear the brunt of angrying the consumer by passing the > cost along or that the dealers would eat the surcharge.? He did not > plan for the consumers to hear about the surcharge...the notice was > sent to dealers by Aerotech not to consumer sources like Rocketry Planet. > > As for favorite motors and all, I did a quick check.? To buy the AT > 75/5120 system (the casing and all closures) one dealer is charging > about $550.? The CTI system for a similar sized reload (75 4G) is around $306.? > The CTI system is 45% cheaper than the AT system.? As for the reloads, > the AT reload for this case would be $280 while the CTI reload is > $247.? So you save $33 on the CTI reload and you can use the CTI > classic load in the AT 75/5120 system.? Soon, CTI will have 5 or 6 > different reloads with similar characteristics to the AT propellant for the 4G system.? > > So if you had no hardware to start with and wanted to move up, CTI > gear in the bigger sizes appears to be more cost-effective.? If you > have AT hardware already, I would concede that CTI reloads for AT > hardware is somewhat viable but limited (for instance, although the > classic load will?work in the AT hardware, the White Lightning reload won't). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Bogdanich > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2009 7:58 am > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge > > > > Speaking just for myself I think AeroTech was being honest when they > said the problem was getting a "reliable" consistent "quality" supply > of AP. When making things like this the consistency of the base > materials is paramount if one wants repeatable performance metrics. I > suspect what happened is he used to be close to first in line for > shuttle excess but now that the shuttle is going away that supply is > no longer sufficient to meet motor demand. So he needs to find new > supply. With respect to Cessaroni it's easier to buy bulk chemical of > any sort in Canada than in America. Period. For example I bet the > Russians make a lot of good, consistent, highest quality, low price > AP. Try and buy some in America and see what happens to you. In > Canada much fewer problems. Lower cost of materials, same cost of > labor, no disguised taxes in the form of health care policies and so > on. It's just plain hard to manufacture anything in the US anymore on > any kind of industrial scale. The basic legal framework doesn't allow > it. As to AeroTech being diminished I doubt it. People, including > me, have favorite motors for certain rockets. I don't think an extra > 5 to 50 dollars per motor is going to change my motor selection. > However if the performance from one round to the next started to > change than would change my motor selection. Predictable, reliable > performance is the first order of business. In my opinion. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From brodwcjj at integrity.com Fri Jun 26 20:40:42 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:40:42 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090626224042.17011rhfrv4x3cu8@wm.integrity.com> To Ian and the list: Hi Ian, when you were LCO-ing at the Brothers night launch last weekend you asked about the source for the electroluminescent light tape on my extended Binder Dragonfly: http://www.integrity.com/homes/brodwcjj/Night-launch-tape.html I said I'd get back to you via the list so here I be: I bought that from a website that no longer exists :-( nightlaunch.com A rocketeer on another list helped me find a current site that one can order similar product: http://www.microstru.com/ specifically the Experimenter kits page: http://www.microstru.com/Experimenter-Kits.html I like the tape better than the wire because you can put it on the outside with less drag. I glue it on the payload section around the tape edges with Elmers. So if I ever want to remove it I can soak it off with some moisture. The Elmers is strong enough to fly it on G's ... multiple times .. no stripping off in flight yet. Dustin From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Jun 26 21:08:24 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... In-Reply-To: References: <062520090438.21202.4A42FF3E000D7D53000052D222218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net><00f601c9f5d8$a7348d70$f59da850$@net><9B87D3EB5DD943C0A4084504CD598029@downstair> <3b28903dca1d0730d56e51151fc80c0a.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <2c323e8f0420d9ffbb93217e0af6789c.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> IIRC correctly NAR contest rules require deliberately ejected motors(generally from gliders)to have streamers so people can see them coming down. The only way to attach a streamer to an Estes casing is tape or glue, and taping to the inside of a case isn't as reliable as glue and is virtually impossible with a C or D. Hence the drop of glue and the rather nit-picking discussion that followed(on ROL) as to whether that constituted a prohibited modification. Flying rockets which intentionally eject spent casings in a manner that allows the casings to fall in a spectator area is a violation of the safety code. Dropping a CHAD staged booster casing at low altitude doesn't necessarily violate the safety code but I really should have figured out how to wrap a short streamer around those. +McG+ > OK, as I mentioned - I was offering a suggestion. Gluing a kevler string > to > the side of the case isn't a functional mod. Just prevents Earth hits. > > I recently got hit by a spit C motor. I was looking up and at the very > last > moment saw it and looked forward. Smacked me in the head. If I was still > looking up, it might have been worse. True, it was a just a bump, no more. > But a hit in the eye by a spit motor might have been worse. > > I'd refuse to RSO approve any flyer with a motor known to spit out. Multi > stage rockets normally have fin cans to spin and tumble down. At least in > low power versions. That's just me. > > Getting hit was not a biggie. The biggie was it could have been a kid and > could have been in the face. Being a member of this club, I strive to > avoid > risk and no less. Bottom line OROC will play safety and safety codes > before > anything else. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:48 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... > > >>I remember discussions of whether or not gluing a string to the outside >> of >> a motor constituted a prohibited modification. Filling a booster motor >> with epoxy certainly does, but it's commonly done to correct, uh, >> 'manufacturer oversight' in product line. >> >> Me, if I could, I'd let the ejection charges pop out the casings during >> ascent to give that little extra boost. But some RSO's whine about >> spent >> casings raining down like hail. Picky, picky. ;-) There was once a >> long >> discussion on ROL about whether or not 18- and 24mm paper casings >> tumbling >> back to earth posed a hazard. Conclusion was that they weren't a >> significant medical risk but would hurt. BONK! >> >> That said, I've CHAD staged a few rockets at OROC launches where the >> casing would stay well away from spectators. It's the littering aspect >> that I don't like about it. Never found any of the dropped casings. >> >> Faced with the need for plugged C's, I'd epoxy -0 motors. Don't need >> any >> stray hot gas with sparks flowing through places it doesn't need to be. >> Sure don't need ejection charges blowing out nozzles because the 'big >> hole >> end' of the motor was plugged. >> +McG+ >> >> >>> Marty2, >>> >>> Use -0 engines and epoxy them... >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Marty2 >>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:05 PM >>> To: 'Rocket Lost' >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... >>> >>> Plug the front of a booster motor with about 1/4" of epoxy. I plug 4 >>> of >>> the >>> motors in a 7 motor cluster because 7 ejection charges are just plain >>> too >>> much even if they are at slightly different times (scorched body tube). >>> The >>> three remaining do a fine job of ejecting the chute. Technically this >>> is >>> probably a modification of the motor, but it is just a more permanent >>> version of a couple of the other suggestions. Just make sure clearly >>> mark >>> the motors as plugged because they will not work as a booster in a two >>> stage. >>> >>> Marty >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:38 PM >>> To: Rocket Lost >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] To eject or not to eject.... >>> >>> During last weekends Father's Day launch at 60 Acres, I flew my >>> well-worn >>> Estes Titan IIIE. It reminded me that I'd started on a replacement >>> Titan >>> III. One of the 'improvements' I was planning was to make it a 3 >>> engine >>> cluster - a center 24mm engine and 18mm engines incorporated in the >>> removeable fin units that fit in the strap ons. But one issue I >>> haven't >>> resolved is what about the 18mm ejection charges? I'm unaware of any >>> readily available 18mm 'C' motors that are plugged, so unless I want to >>> mess >>> with 18mm RMS I've got to deal with ejection charges. I'd like to vent >>> the >>> ejection somewhere, but the question is how and where? The layout of >>> the >>> rocket pretty well rules out ducting it into the main body, and there >>> would >>> be precious little room to duct it after around the engine mount. >>> >>> Suggestions? >>> >>> TIA >>> >>> Tim Doll >>> NAR 18340 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From lennyb at telus.net Fri Jun 26 22:00:46 2009 From: lennyb at telus.net (Len Bryan) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:00:46 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209916E289@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <01F6493857F94B33B1A15CDA19D29D5A@lorto720> I wish that were true but not quite. Well, they *may* work but they are definitely not all certified to do so. I recently had an email exchange with Dr. Louwers about the certifications. He updated the CTI site with information on which motors are certified in AT hardware. The information can be found here: http://www.pro38.com/faqs.php#certification I say that they *may* work because the motors which are certified to work with AT hardware come with different o-rings and are assembled with a slightly different set of instructions. I've even seen a different (CTI made) aft closure for one 75mm motor. Len Bryan -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: June 26, 2009 6:15 PM To: jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge All the 75mm and 98mm CTI reloads will work in all AT compatible HW as well as CTI hw. so if you buy AT compat hw you get everything in these sizes. b From lsagan123 at msn.com Sat Jun 27 00:14:22 2009 From: lsagan123 at msn.com (Ralph Strauser) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:14:22 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape In-Reply-To: <20090626224042.17011rhfrv4x3cu8@wm.integrity.com> References: <20090626224042.17011rhfrv4x3cu8@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: There are a ton of sources for el material. Check under novelty sights and custom car sights. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 8:41 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape To Ian and the list: Hi Ian, when you were LCO-ing at the Brothers night launch last weekend you asked about the source for the electroluminescent light tape on my extended Binder Dragonfly: http://www.integrity.com/homes/brodwcjj/Night-launch-tape.html I said I'd get back to you via the list so here I be: I bought that from a website that no longer exists :-( nightlaunch.com A rocketeer on another list helped me find a current site that one can order similar product: http://www.microstru.com/ specifically the Experimenter kits page: http://www.microstru.com/Experimenter-Kits.html I like the tape better than the wire because you can put it on the outside with less drag. I glue it on the payload section around the tape edges with Elmers. So if I ever want to remove it I can soak it off with some moisture. The Elmers is strong enough to fly it on G's ... multiple times .. no stripping off in flight yet. Dustin _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2204 - Release Date: 06/26/09 18:00:00 From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Sat Jun 27 06:44:10 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:44:10 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge In-Reply-To: <01F6493857F94B33B1A15CDA19D29D5A@lorto720> References: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209916E289@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> <01F6493857F94B33B1A15CDA19D29D5A@lorto720> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209916F560@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com> So up until the very recent new loads released my statement was true. And as a matter of fact the link you send list almost all of the reloads being compatible. As the new ones get through the process I'm sure they will be added. Note that I have flown a large selection of CTI motors in AT hardware and all were certified to do so. Regardless - CTI is the much better deal than AT even before recent price increases, their line is expanding and the quality of the product is MUCH better. b -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Len Bryan Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:01 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge I wish that were true but not quite. Well, they *may* work but they are definitely not all certified to do so. I recently had an email exchange with Dr. Louwers about the certifications. He updated the CTI site with information on which motors are certified in AT hardware. The information can be found here: http://www.pro38.com/faqs.php#certification I say that they *may* work because the motors which are certified to work with AT hardware come with different o-rings and are assembled with a slightly different set of instructions. I've even seen a different (CTI made) aft closure for one 75mm motor. Len Bryan -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright Sent: June 26, 2009 6:15 PM To: jjcllc03 at aol.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerotech Announces Surcharge All the 75mm and 98mm CTI reloads will work in all AT compatible HW as well as CTI hw. so if you buy AT compat hw you get everything in these sizes. b _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Sat Jun 27 12:55:57 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:55:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AEROTECH VS CTI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090627123531.00c5c6a0@mail.iinet.com> At 12:00 PM 6/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >Regardless - CTI is the much better deal than AT even before recent price >increases, their line is expanding and the quality of the product is MUCH >better. Seems to me motor preference is a matter of motor preference. CTI does not offer anything close to as regressive burning as a J570 for example so if that's the motor profile you want for a particular application then that ARMS reload is much better than any CTI offering in that diameter. Similarly Warp 9 is faster and hotter then VMax in all loads. As to Cessaroni's overall quality I always had the impression that it was pretty good until I got that 54mm 6GXL case. After receiving that I had to ask myself, what kind of a manufacturer of flight grade equipment passes on a motor casing with deep exterior abrasions (>0.075 inches) that were in the case before it was anodized? I have never seem such a poor piece of new gear from AeroTech, Dr. Rocket, Rouse Tech or any other AeroTech approved hardware manufacturer. The occasional blemish in the anodizing is common but never material structural defects. Believe me when I tell you that that case in question represented an appalling lack of QC on the case manufacturing side. It wasn't just ugly from a mediocre anodizing job it was functionally impaired because of sloppy manufacturing. It was deeply abraded. Further when I went to their website to inform their customer service department of the problem their facility kept rejecting my messages as "too long" and asked me if "I was a human." I counted my words and as it happens if you have anything to ay to Cessaroni you had better be able to do it in under about 70 words. I ended up having to send the comments in three separate e-mails. Not exactly approachable customer service. Indeed, it left me with the impression that they could care less about my comments or any problems I may have had with their gear. Whether their motor QC is heads and shoulders better and as impeccable as you suggest it is, and as it should be, all I can say is I certainly hope so. That case was for shit. Good for naught. From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Sat Jun 27 13:07:15 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:07:15 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AEROTECH VS CTI In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090627123531.00c5c6a0@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090627123531.00c5c6a0@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <4A467BF3.8060306@hawkfeather.com> FWIW, I've never had to deal with customer service on the CTI side. But they have always been extremely prompt, courteous, and very easy to deal with on the Hypertek side of things. YMMV. Andrew. Paul Bogdanich wrote: > At 12:00 PM 6/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >> Regardless - CTI is the much better deal than AT even before recent price >> increases, their line is expanding and the quality of the product is MUCH >> better. > > > Seems to me motor preference is a matter of motor preference. CTI does not > offer anything close to as regressive burning as a J570 for example so if > that's the motor profile you want for a particular application then that > ARMS reload is much better than any CTI offering in that > diameter. Similarly Warp 9 is faster and hotter then VMax in all > loads. As to Cessaroni's overall quality I always had the impression that > it was pretty good until I got that 54mm 6GXL case. After receiving that I > had to ask myself, what kind of a manufacturer of flight grade equipment > passes on a motor casing with deep exterior abrasions (>0.075 inches) that > were in the case before it was anodized? I have never seem such a poor > piece of new gear from AeroTech, Dr. Rocket, Rouse Tech or any other > AeroTech approved hardware manufacturer. The occasional blemish in the > anodizing is common but never material structural defects. Believe me when > I tell you that that case in question represented an appalling lack of QC > on the case manufacturing side. It wasn't just ugly from a mediocre > anodizing job it was functionally impaired because of sloppy > manufacturing. It was deeply abraded. Further when I went to their > website to inform their customer service department of the problem their > facility kept rejecting my messages as "too long" and asked me if "I was a > human." I counted my words and as it happens if you have anything to ay to > Cessaroni you had better be able to do it in under about 70 words. I ended > up having to send the comments in three separate e-mails. Not exactly > approachable customer service. Indeed, it left me with the impression that > they could care less about my comments or any problems I may have had with > their gear. Whether their motor QC is heads and shoulders better and as > impeccable as you suggest it is, and as it should be, all I can say is I > certainly hope so. That case was for shit. Good for naught. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 14:06:03 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:06:03 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda July 2nd 2009 Message-ID: The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on July 2nd 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's [ Map ] 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : Welcome New Members 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville [Packard] 7:40 : Summer Skies Launch Results [Krausert/Goncher] 7:45 : Desert Heat Launch Plans / Readiness [Krausert] 7:50 : Club Finances [Moscoe] 7:55 : Trailer / GSE Post Desert Heat Plans & Trailer Parties [G. Moscoe] 8:00 : World's First 38mm L Motor / Flight Results (Show & Tell) [Fisher] 8:15 : Modified PML Quantum Leap 2-Stage Rocket (Show & Tell) [Goncher] I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday July 2nd at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Officers, try to arrive by 7:00pm if you have anything you'd like to discuss prior to the club meeting. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President -------------- next part -------------- The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on July 2nd 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's [ Map ] 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : Welcome New Members 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville [Packard] 7:40 : Summer Skies Launch Results [Krausert/Goncher] 7:45 : Desert Heat Launch Plans / Readiness [Krausert] 7:50 : Club Finances [Moscoe] 7:55 :?Trailer / GSE Post Desert Heat Plans & Trailer Parties [G. Moscoe] 8:00 :?World's First 38mm L Motor / Flight Results (Show & Tell) [Fisher] 8:15 : Modified PML Quantum Leap 2-Stage Rocket (Show & Tell) [Goncher] I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday July 2nd at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Officers, try to arrive by 7:00pm if you have anything you'd like to discuss prior to the club meeting. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President From dmrandall at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 14:13:03 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:13:03 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] AEROTECH VS CTI In-Reply-To: <4A467BF3.8060306@hawkfeather.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090627123531.00c5c6a0@mail.iinet.com> <4A467BF3.8060306@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40906271413y3ad893eekba9899120484ab8b@mail.gmail.com> I have a 29/180 case from a AT authorized mfr that has an ID that is too small. All reload cardboard sleeves need to be peeled before they'll fit. Sometimes more than just the glassine needs to come off. Genuine AT case requires no peeling. While its not a material / structural defect, it's out of tolerance as far as I'm concerned. Don't know if I'd call it an appalling lack of QC, but its not a lot of fun peeling every motor you want to fly when that's such a versatile case. I suspect there are plenty of 'less than perfect' hardware stories out there, but let's hope that you're able to get your issue resolved quickly and easily Paul. Dave On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Andrew MacMillen wrote: > FWIW, I've never had to deal with customer service on the CTI side. But > they have always been extremely prompt, courteous, and very easy to deal > with on the Hypertek side of things. YMMV. > > Andrew. > > Paul Bogdanich wrote: >> At 12:00 PM 6/27/2009 -0700, you wrote: >>> Regardless - CTI is the much better deal than AT even before recent price >>> increases, their line is expanding and the quality of the product is MUCH >>> better. >> >> >> Seems to me motor preference is a matter of motor preference. ?CTI does not >> offer anything close to as regressive burning as a J570 for example so if >> that's the motor profile you want for a particular application then that >> ARMS reload is much better than any CTI offering in that >> diameter. ?Similarly Warp 9 is faster and hotter then VMax in all >> loads. ?As to Cessaroni's overall quality I always had the impression that >> it was pretty good until I got that 54mm 6GXL case. ?After receiving that I >> had to ask myself, what kind of a manufacturer of flight grade equipment >> passes on a motor casing with deep exterior abrasions (>0.075 inches) that >> were in the case before it was anodized? ?I have never seem such a poor >> piece of new gear from AeroTech, Dr. Rocket, Rouse Tech or any other >> AeroTech approved hardware manufacturer. ?The occasional blemish in the >> anodizing is common but never material structural defects. ?Believe me when >> I tell you that that case in question represented an appalling lack of QC >> on the case manufacturing side. ?It wasn't just ugly from a mediocre >> anodizing job it was functionally impaired because of sloppy >> manufacturing. ?It was deeply abraded. ?Further when I went to their >> website to inform their customer service department of the problem their >> facility kept rejecting my messages as "too long" and asked me if "I was a >> human." ?I counted my words and as it happens if you have anything to ay to >> Cessaroni you had better be able to do it in under about 70 words. ?I ended >> up having to send the comments in three separate e-mails. ?Not exactly >> approachable customer service. ?Indeed, it left me with the impression that >> they could care less about my comments or any problems I may have had with >> their gear. ?Whether their motor QC is heads and shoulders better and as >> impeccable as you suggest it is, and as it should be, all I can say is I >> certainly hope so. ?That case was for shit. ?Good for naught. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 16:42:01 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:42:01 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Desert Heat Rocket Lauch Event July 10-12 2009 Message-ID: OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Desert Heat rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening July 10th through 12th. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us. Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is one of the largest and most popular OregonRocketry launches at Brothers each year. We can easily expect to see 100+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. July 10th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Saturday July 11th and Sunday July 12th are commercial motor only days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!! Drawing: We will be giving two tickets to kids and one ticket to adults during the morning and afternoon Saturday. We will be holding several drawings to win prizes. So be sure to get your ticket or tickets on Saturday before the drawings. A chance to win great prizes. The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by either a launch controller officer and or range safety officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. Summer Skies is a great launch event, and very popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun and maybe win a prize. We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. Directions: We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we'll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. Stop by the registration table for a wristband. All visitors and members will be required to have a signed release form for landowners. We have a new release form for one of the landowners, everyone will be required to sign before getting a wristband. If you signed the new release form at the June launch, you're exempt. Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, July 10th - 12th. Cheers, Robert OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - -------------- next part -------------- OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT -? O REGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - As the current President of OregonRocketry, It is my pleasure to announce our Desert Heat rocket launch event in Brothers Oregon happening July 10th?through 12th. Speaking for the entire board of directors, we hope you will join us for a very exciting and memorable weekend of rocketry in the Pacific Northwest. You are welcome and certainly encouraged to join us.? Fun for all ages. Adventures in model, sport, and amatuer rocketry begins with OregonRocketry. This is one of the largest and most popular OregonRocketry launches at Brothers each year. We can easily expect to see 100+ people at this launch. Hope you are one. This launch?typically brings for a great weekend and a lot of entertaining flights. July 10th is Research Launch day. Tripoli members L2 or higher are welcome to fly hybrid and EX type rockets. Of course, all within accordance with TRA research safety code. Tripoli members 18 years and older, any level, are allowed to fly rockets using commercial motors. Non-TRA members, those under 18, and invited guests are allowed to watch. However, you're not allowed in the prep area or beyond the flight line. You must be a TRA member to fly rockets on Friday. Saturday July 11th and Sunday July 12th are commercial motor only days. Everyone is welcome to fly rockets on both Saturday and Sunday. Bring your rockets and motors, and spend some time with us having a great time flying. 8:00am to 10pm Saturday and 8:00am to 2:00pm Sunday. Night launch on Saturday night, you only need something on your rocket that illuminates the rocket. Glow sticks work!!! Drawing: We will be giving two tickets to kids and one ticket to adults during the morning and afternoon Saturday. We will be holding several drawings to win prizes. So be sure to get your ticket or tickets on Saturday before the drawings. A chance to win great prizes. The club asks that you are aware and comprehend both NAR and TRA safety code. As well as all rules required for the Brothers launch site. Please visit the OregonRocketry.com web site and review our site rules, and visit NAR and TRA websites and review their safety codes. I expect everyone there to comprehend and adhere to these codes. Safety is our priority. All flights will be reviewed by either a launch controller officer and or range safety officer. They have final approval of your flight. If you are bringing a custom made rocket, be prepared to answer questions about stability, center of pressure, center of gravity, delay time, etc. Multi-stage and complex rockets, be prepared to show simulation results if asked. Summer Skies is a great launch event, and very popular by members and the public. We certainly hope you can join us, and who knows - you might have a lot of fun and maybe win a prize. We are at an altitude of 4500 feet. For commercial motors we FAA clearance to 25,000 feet above sea level (or 20,500 feet above ground level or AGL). We have a call in extension to 35,500 feet AGL. For research motors by TRA rules are 75% of the waiver, which is clearance to 18,750 feet above sea level (or 15,375 feet AGL). With the call in extension to 26.625 feet AGL.That should be high enough to keep everyone happy. Directions: We offer complete directions on the OregonRocketry web to the Brothers launch site. At this web URL, there are two directions. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm We currently have two ready firepits at the site. Please do not create any more, we have agreement with landowners that we'd not create new ones. The firepit just West of the LCO table is the community firepit. We'll have a fire Friday and Saturday evening after dusk. Join us for some rocket talk and good times meeting new friends or catching up with old friends. Bring some firewood. We all try to bring some, so we have enough for both nights. We normally get to watch ISS (International Space Station) orbit, fun to see. New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be prepared. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. And sun-screen, sun-screen, sun-screen. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site. http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm We will look to OROC members to help with setup, tear down, and running of the event. Stop by the registration table for a wristband. All visitors and members will be required to have a signed release form for landowners. We have a new release form for one of the landowners, everyone will be required to sign before getting a wristband. If you signed the new release form at the June launch, you're exempt. Lets have a great time. We will be holding an all flyers meeting at 9:30am Saturday morning. See you on the central Oregon sage, July 10th - 12th. Cheers, Robert OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - OREGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT -? O REGONROCKETRY - DESERT HEAT - ? ? ? From jhadv at pacifier.com Sat Jun 27 16:59:27 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:59:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CTI SIMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090627164758.0348ee68@mail.iinet.com> One other thing while we are on the subject. I look over the CTI website and see two motors that I would like to fly in July, namely the J420 and the J530. The J530 looks particularly interesting so I go to sim it. I can not find any sims on the motors. So I start looking. I check the CTI download ProXX, I check Thrust Curve, I check the web, I personally can't find any simulations on the J420 the J530 or any of the Bluestreak or Skidmark reloads. I can find them for sale, just no simulations. Now call me peculiar but I use electronic eject and fire the drogue at apogee detect and then again on straight time just to make sure. I find my flights a lot more enjoyable when I am not digging them up out of the desert. Call me funny that way. Anyway, I can't fly either motor because I can't do a simulation to set the timer. That little thing combined with the case problem is why my letter to CTI was over length and why they asked me if I was human. I should have answered no but that's another matter. Just an irascible old coot I should say. Anyway I don't buy this Cessaroni superior quality stuff. Sounds to me like they do some things well and others very poorly. Kinda like everyone else. From keithp at keithp.com Sat Jun 27 18:18:20 2009 From: keithp at keithp.com (Keith Packard) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:18:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CTI SIMS In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090627164758.0348ee68@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090627164758.0348ee68@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <1246151900.6209.21.camel@aiko.keithp.com> On Sat, 2009-06-27 at 16:59 -0700, Paul Bogdanich wrote: > One other thing while we are on the subject. I look over the CTI website > and see two motors that I would like to fly in July, namely the J420 and > the J530. The J530 looks particularly interesting so I go to sim it. I > can not find any sims on the motors. So I start looking. I check the CTI > download ProXX, I check Thrust Curve, I check the web, I personally can't > find any simulations on the J420 the J530 or any of the Bluestreak or > Skidmark reloads. Thrustcurve.org has new files for the J420 and J530, just uploaded yesterday, along with all of the new 29mm reloads. -- keith.packard at intel.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/rockets/attachments/20090627/f4d1772c/attachment.pgp From lennyb at telus.net Sat Jun 27 18:32:34 2009 From: lennyb at telus.net (Len Bryan) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:32:34 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CTI SIMS In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090627164758.0348ee68@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: Hi there, I accidentally replied only to Paul. Here is the message I meant to send to the list. -Len Just curious. When did you check Thrustcurve.org? I uploaded most of the data yesterday and today. RSE files of the CAR tested motors are there and the .eng files are started. Also on Rocketry Planet, there are entire files of all motors. (.eng and .rse) In fairness to CTI, there have been three of us from CAR working on parsing the cert data. Sorry if we have held you back. If you are ever in a hurry for a thrustcurve, there is a great tool on the Thrustcurve site. It is called TCtrace. All you need is the trace from TRA, NAR or CAR. Anyway, the link to the files is: http://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2100 Note that there are some CTI motors that have not been posted as they were tested by TRA. I will trace those tomorrow if I can find the cert data online. Len Bryan -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich Sent: June 27, 2009 4:59 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] CTI SIMS One other thing while we are on the subject. I look over the CTI website and see two motors that I would like to fly in July, namely the J420 and the J530. The J530 looks particularly interesting so I go to sim it. I can not find any sims on the motors. So I start looking. I check the CTI download ProXX, I check Thrust Curve, I check the web, I personally can't find any simulations on the J420 the J530 or any of the Bluestreak or Skidmark reloads. I can find them for sale, just no simulations. Now call me peculiar but I use electronic eject and fire the drogue at apogee detect and then again on straight time just to make sure. I find my flights a lot more enjoyable when I am not digging them up out of the desert. Call me funny that way. Anyway, I can't fly either motor because I can't do a simulation to set the timer. That little thing combined with the case problem is why my letter to CTI was over length and why they asked me if I was human. I should have answered no but that's another matter. Just an irascible old coot I should say. Anyway I don't buy this Cessaroni superior quality stuff. Sounds to me like they do some things well and others very poorly. Kinda like everyone else. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Sun Jun 28 13:00:03 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:00:03 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CTI SIMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090628125745.00c42268@mail.iinet.com> Thank you gentlemen. I got the simulation pertinent to my July plans yesterday. I would still be interested in seeing the sims on the BlueStreak and Skidmark propellant but no hurry. The J530 looks like a nice motor. Think I might launch one; if I can get an acceptable case that is. From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 29 08:41:43 2009 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:41:43 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape In-Reply-To: <20090626224042.17011rhfrv4x3cu8@wm.integrity.com> References: <20090626224042.17011rhfrv4x3cu8@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: I have a electroluminescent tape kit that I won in a raffle at a launch (FITS 2003??) 7 or 8 years ago and it is still sitting in my shed. I would be willing to send it your way for a few bucks. I don't think I am ever going to use it. Contact me off list if you want it. jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:40 PM To: Subject: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape > To Ian and the list: > > Hi Ian, when you were LCO-ing at the Brothers night launch last > weekend you asked about the source for the electroluminescent light > tape on my extended Binder Dragonfly: > http://www.integrity.com/homes/brodwcjj/Night-launch-tape.html > I said I'd get back to you via the list so here I be: > > I bought that from a website that no longer exists :-( nightlaunch.com > > A rocketeer on another list helped me find a current site that one can > order similar product: > http://www.microstru.com/ > > specifically the Experimenter kits page: > http://www.microstru.com/Experimenter-Kits.html > > I like the tape better than the wire because you can put it on the > outside with less drag. > I glue it on the payload section around the tape edges with Elmers. > So if I ever want to remove it I can soak it off with some moisture. > The Elmers is strong enough to fly it on G's ... multiple times .. no > stripping off in flight yet. > > Dustin > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From joebevier at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 11:05:02 2009 From: joebevier at gmail.com (Joe Bevier) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:05:02 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] In flight video Message-ID: <45717540906291105u11ab9ad8ye765ebbabc5861ef@mail.gmail.com> I just posted my first attempt at in-flight video in the gallery. A Binder Raptor, dual deploy, glassed, on a K695 Redline. I unknowingly switched the focus to macro when I installed the camera in the payload bay. It kinda' negates the fact this is a high definition camera. So Apologies for the slightly out of focus video. The rocket itself is in focus! Apogee was just below the cloud deck. Interestingly, with the camera on macro, near apogee if you single frame the video you can see snow flakes going past the rocket. This is more obvious in the high resolution version that is too big to post. Single frame near the start and the motor blast/reflection on the pad turns the whole image red for a couple frames -cool! I'll double check and tape down that switch next time. I promise! -- Joe -------------- next part -------------- I unknowingly switched the focus to macro when I installed the camera in the payload bay. ?It kinda' negates the fact this is a high definition camera. ?So Apologies for the slightly out of focus video. ?The rocket itself is in focus! Apogee was just below the cloud deck. ?Interestingly, with the camera on macro, near apogee if you single frame the video you can see snow flakes going past the rocket. ?This is more obvious in the high resolution version that is too big to post. Single frame near the start and the motor?blast/reflection?on?the?pad?turns?the?whole?image?red?for?a?couple?frames?-cool! I'll double check and tape?down?that?switch?next?time.??I?promise! -- Joe From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Mon Jun 29 14:52:29 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:52:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage Message-ID: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hi all.?? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.???? I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were checked in and when they were burned.??????I have contingent storage??and wanted to hear from ??those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from the meeting.?? I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. Mike -------------- next part -------------- Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.?? I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were checked in and when they were burned.???I have contingent storage?and wanted to hear from ?those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. ? Mike From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon Jun 29 14:54:44 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:54:44 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: I am curious, why you are renewing? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.?? I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were checked in and when they were burned.???I have contingent storage?and wanted to hear from ?those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. Mike From carl at mousetrap.com Mon Jun 29 15:06:27 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:06:27 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: I'm in the same boat as you, Mike: I'm a LEUP holder with contingent storage. I had my renewal meeting a couple of weeks ago with Agent Gonzalez, who was incredibly nice and easy going. The meeting was pretty straight forward: he glanced at my receipts, he looked at my log, and he went over the list of things we were required to review. I think it took about 20 minutes. He mentioned that each receipt should have the seller's permit number as well as my permit number so that a paper trail can be built from receipts without looking at any other paperwork, but that is something that the seller should be doing. While each line of my log shows a code for the seller, it didn't show the seller's permit number, which is something he suggested I "fix". - Carl On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:52 PM, wrote: > Hi all. I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week. I > have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were > checked in and when they were burned. I have contingent storage and wanted > to hear from those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a > renewal what to expect from the meeting. I'm assuming this should be a > pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- He mentioned that each receipt should have the seller's permit number as well as my permit number so that a paper trail can be built from receipts without looking at any other paperwork, but that is something that the seller should be doing. While each line of my log shows a code for the seller, it didn't show the seller's permit number, which is something he suggested I "fix". ?- Carl On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:52 PM, < mailto:mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net > wrote: Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.?? I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were checked in and when they were burned.???I have contingent storage?and wanted to hear from ?those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. ? Mike _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From bigredbee at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 15:10:01 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:10:01 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: References: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Black powder, igniters, and ematches. I'm not renewing just for those things -- I can make them all myself. -- Greg On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Scott T Bowers wrote: > I am curious, why you are renewing? > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage > > > > Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.?? I > have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were > checked in and when they were burned.???I have contingent storage?and wanted > to hear from ?those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a > renewal what to expect from the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a > pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. > > > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Mon Jun 29 15:13:49 2009 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:13:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <473964673.600941246313629444.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> At some point I'll need to get ignitors and/or e-matches and I'll need it to legally purchase them.?? I know that you can home brew your own but it's easier for me just to buy them.?? I also want it to comve my backside just in case they make an end run and by some remarkable feat get motors regulated again.?? If nothing happens in the next three years I probably won't renew. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" < scott @ scottsrockets .com> To: mikeandkimwyvel @comcast.net, rockets@ rocketsnw .com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:54:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [ RocketsNW ] LEUP renewal with contingent storage I am curious, why you are renewing? Scott T. Bowers www . scottsrockets .com ?? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com [ mailto :rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com] On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel @comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com Subject: [ RocketsNW ] LEUP renewal with contingent storage Hi all.?? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.???? I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were checked in and when they were burned.??????I have contingent storage??and wanted to hear from ??those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from the meeting.?? I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. Mike -------------- next part -------------- At some point I'll need to get ignitors and/or e-matches and I'll need it to legally purchase them.? I know that you can home brew your own but it's easier for me just to buy them.? I also want it to comve my backside just in case they make an end run and by some remarkable feat get motors regulated again.? If nothing happens in the next three years I probably won't renew. ? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott T Bowers" To: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:54:44 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage I am curious, why you are renewing? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com ? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.?? I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were checked in and when they were burned.???I have contingent storage?and wanted to hear from ?those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. Mike From greg at blastzone.com Mon Jun 29 15:14:58 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:14:58 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: References: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <21f601c9f907$0a646a10$1f2d3e30$@com> The ATF is not a charity. Quit giving them your money. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:06 PM > To: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage > > I'm in the same boat as you, Mike: I'm a LEUP holder with contingent storage. > I had my renewal meeting a couple of weeks ago with Agent Gonzalez, who was > incredibly nice and easy going. The meeting was pretty straight > forward: he glanced at my receipts, he looked at my log, and he went over the > list of things we were required to review. I think it took about 20 minutes. > He mentioned that each receipt should have the seller's permit number as well > as my permit number so that a paper trail can be built from receipts without > looking at any other paperwork, but that is something that the seller should > be doing. While each line of my log shows a code for the seller, it didn't > show the seller's permit number, which is something he suggested I "fix". > > - Carl > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:52 PM, wrote: > > > Hi all. I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week. I > > have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were > > checked in and when they were burned. I have contingent storage and wanted > > to hear from those of you who also have contingent storage and have > > had a renewal what to expect from the meeting. I'm assuming this > > should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. > > > > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > From winningstad at comcast.net Mon Jun 29 15:16:31 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:16:31 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: References: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3F70517D9FE444289A8A5DC7F23E26B2@downstair> Storage of thermolite - black powder - etc? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 It is bad luck to be superstitious. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:55 PM To: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage I am curious, why you are renewing? Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.?? I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were checked in and when they were burned.???I have contingent storage?and wanted to hear from ?those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. Mike _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at bigredbee.com Mon Jun 29 15:20:17 2009 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:20:17 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: <3F70517D9FE444289A8A5DC7F23E26B2@downstair> References: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <3F70517D9FE444289A8A5DC7F23E26B2@downstair> Message-ID: I'd be spending more money for the permit than I would buying stuff that required it. So -- here's a question. Ematches are regulated, right? So, let's say that I have contingent storage, and that I bought 2 ematches, but only used two. Do I have to check that one ematch into the contingent magazine? -- Greg On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Dennis Winningstad wrote: > Storage of thermolite - black powder - etc? > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > It is bad luck to be superstitious. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:55 PM > To: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage > > I am curious, why you are renewing? > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage > > > > Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.?? I > have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were > checked in and when they were burned.???I have contingent storage?and wanted > to hear from ?those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a > renewal what to expect from the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a > pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. > > > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Mon Jun 29 16:57:09 2009 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:57:09 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage Message-ID: <30398058.1246319829634.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> No Greg - you bought (2) and spent (2) - you don't have to check anything into contingent storage. May I suggest a math class instead? /Steve -----Original Message----- >From: Greg Clark >Sent: Jun 29, 2009 3:20 PM >To: Dennis Winningstad >Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage > >I'd be spending more money for the permit than I would buying stuff >that required it. > >So -- here's a question. > >Ematches are regulated, right? So, let's say that I have contingent >storage, and that I bought 2 ematches, but only used two. Do I have >to check that one ematch into the contingent magazine? > >-- Greg > >On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Dennis >Winningstad wrote: >> Storage of thermolite - black powder - etc? >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> 503-781-3529 >> >> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:55 PM >> To: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >> >> I am curious, why you are renewing? >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >> >> >> >> Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.?? I >> have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were >> checked in and when they were burned.???I have contingent storage?and wanted >> to hear from ?those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a >> renewal what to expect from the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a >> pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. >> >> >> >> Mike >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Rockets mailing list >Rockets at rocketsnw.com >http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From greg at bigredbee.com Mon Jun 29 17:08:59 2009 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:08:59 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: <30398058.1246319829634.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <30398058.1246319829634.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: oooops, that calculator goes along with my special calendar. I meant 1 ;) On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:57 PM, wrote: > No Greg - you bought (2) and spent (2) - you don't have to check anything into contingent storage. ?May I suggest a math class instead? ?/Steve > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Greg Clark >>Sent: Jun 29, 2009 3:20 PM >>To: Dennis Winningstad >>Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >> >>I'd be spending more money for the permit than I would buying stuff >>that required it. >> >>So -- here's a question. >> >>Ematches are regulated, right? ?So, let's say that I have contingent >>storage, and that I bought 2 ematches, but only used two. ?Do I have >>to check that one ematch into the contingent magazine? >> >>-- Greg >> >>On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Dennis >>Winningstad wrote: >>> Storage of thermolite - black powder - etc? >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >>> >>> I am curious, why you are renewing? >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week.?? I >>> have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were >>> checked in and when they were burned.???I have contingent storage?and wanted >>> to hear from ?those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a >>> renewal what to expect from the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a >>> pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockets mailing list >>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon Jun 29 17:44:48 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:44:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: References: <30398058.1246319829634.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Rocket science math is hard...............)-; Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:09 PM To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage oooops, that calculator goes along with my special calendar. I meant 1 ;) On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:57 PM, wrote: > No Greg - you bought (2) and spent (2) - you don't have to check > anything into contingent storage. ?May I suggest a math class instead? ? > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Greg Clark >>Sent: Jun 29, 2009 3:20 PM >>To: Dennis Winningstad >>Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >> >>I'd be spending more money for the permit than I would buying stuff >>that required it. >> >>So -- here's a question. >> >>Ematches are regulated, right? ?So, let's say that I have contingent >>storage, and that I bought 2 ematches, but only used two. ?Do I have >>to check that one ematch into the contingent magazine? >> >>-- Greg >> >>On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Dennis >>Winningstad wrote: >>> Storage of thermolite - black powder - etc? >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >>> >>> I am curious, why you are renewing? >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all.? I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next >>> week.?? I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when >>> the motors were checked in and when they were burned.???I have >>> contingent storage?and wanted to hear from ?those of you who also >>> have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from >>> the meeting.? I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockets mailing list >>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From fred at azinger.com Mon Jun 29 17:46:29 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:46:29 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Message-ID: <00ab01c9f91c$35ab7780$a1026680$@com> Not affiliated in any way.... I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of completed motors. I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. FredA -------------- next part -------------- Not affiliated in any way.... I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of completed motors. I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. FredA ? From fred at azinger.com Mon Jun 29 17:47:30 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:47:30 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Message-ID: <00b001c9f91c$59cff050$0d6fd0f0$@com> Would help if I include the link -- sorry http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 PM To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... Not affiliated in any way.... I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of completed motors. I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. FredA -------------- next part -------------- Would help if I include the link -- sorry ? http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html ? ? From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 PM To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... ? Not affiliated in any way.... I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of completed motors. I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. FredA ? From bar0051 at homenetnw.net Mon Jun 29 18:31:07 2009 From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:31:07 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage References: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <0303E38C200143F488107C65EAB27D66@MEDIONDeskTop> I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV, but it is my understanding that since the court ruled that the BATFE's listing APCP as an explosive was "arbitrary and capricious, an abuse of desecration, or otherwise not in accordance with the law" the law was never valid and therefore any paperwork requirements would be invalid as well. I would like to hear from NAR & TRA headquarteers on this. Has anyone heard anything about this??? Bryon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage Hi all. I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week. I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were checked in and when they were burned. I have contingent storage and wanted to hear from those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from the meeting. I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 18:50:23 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:50:23 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage References: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <0303E38C200143F488107C65EAB27D66@MEDIONDeskTop> Message-ID: My take, If you hold a leup and under the provisions "rocket motors" are listed, then when you signed the agreement for the leup, you agreed to keep proper records of motors. If you signed a leup with provisions to track and keep records on matchbooks you purchase, then you agreed to it. Reliquish your leup or amend it and then you can stop tracking between leup start and May 16th 2009. I think the arguement against my comment is, why you got a leup. If it was for the purpose to buy apcp, because it became regulated, then.... tough. AFT made me and I did, then the court told AFT they were unlawful in their declaration, then maybe that's an out. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryon Schopp" To: ; Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV, but it is my understanding > that since the court ruled that the BATFE's listing APCP as an explosive > was > "arbitrary and capricious, an abuse of desecration, or otherwise not in > accordance with the law" the law was never valid and therefore any > paperwork > requirements would be invalid as well. I would like to hear from NAR & > TRA > headquarteers on this. Has anyone heard anything about this??? > > Bryon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage > > > > > Hi all. I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next week. I > have > all my receipts and my storage log that shows when the motors were checked > in and when they were burned. I have contingent storage and wanted to hear > from those of you who also have contingent storage and have had a renewal > what to expect from the meeting. I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy > meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. > > > > Mike > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From brodwcjj at integrity.com Mon Jun 29 19:01:38 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:01:38 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090629210138.11217fhthfo31r0g@wm.integrity.com> Now I am really math confused, how can you buy 1 and then use 2? ;-P Dustin From: Greg Clark Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com oooops, that calculator goes along with my special calendar. I meant 1 ;) From brodwcjj at integrity.com Mon Jun 29 19:14:13 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:14:13 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Speaking of reloads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090629211413.18413lbrfqfcu0ao@wm.integrity.com> With all the talk on reloads lately the thing I wanted to say the most is; How REFRESHING it was to go to the vendor, show my cert L2 NAR card and buy some H reloads. I didn't have to find/bug a leup buddy. I didn't have to wonder if I could get them flown the same day. NAR/TRA Certification for hobby self regulation is such a sensible approach. I hadn't flown L1 since the LEup fiasco hit, and so it was nice to see my Binder Jaguar go up on an H97 again. Dustin BAR-NAR-L2 From scott at scottsrockets.com Mon Jun 29 19:14:35 2009 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:14:35 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: <20090629210138.11217fhthfo31r0g@wm.integrity.com> References: <20090629210138.11217fhthfo31r0g@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: Advanced rocket science, you just need to study more.............. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:02 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage Now I am really math confused, how can you buy 1 and then use 2? ;-P Dustin From: Greg Clark Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com oooops, that calculator goes along with my special calendar. I meant 1 ;) _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at bigredbee.com Mon Jun 29 19:47:49 2009 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:47:49 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Speaking of reloads In-Reply-To: <20090629211413.18413lbrfqfcu0ao@wm.integrity.com> References: <20090629211413.18413lbrfqfcu0ao@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: Was there an igniter in said reloads ??? :) :) :) -- Greg On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:14 PM, wrote: > With all the talk on reloads lately ?the thing I wanted to say the most is; > How REFRESHING it was to go to the vendor, ?show my cert L2 NAR card > and buy some H reloads. ? ?I didn't have to find/bug a leup buddy. ?I > didn't have to wonder if I could get them flown the same day. > NAR/TRA Certification for hobby self regulation is such a sensible approach. > I hadn't flown L1 since the LEup fiasco hit, ?and so it was nice to > see my Binder Jaguar go up on an H97 again. > > Dustin > BAR-NAR-L2 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From greg at blastzone.com Mon Jun 29 19:57:40 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:57:40 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... In-Reply-To: <00b001c9f91c$59cff050$0d6fd0f0$@com> References: <00b001c9f91c$59cff050$0d6fd0f0$@com> Message-ID: <226801c9f92e$88ee9a00$9acbce00$@com> Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda got more. They're very nice for the longer motors. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'Fred Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > Would help if I include the link -- sorry > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 PM > To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of > completed motors. > > I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. > > FredA > > From greg at blastzone.com Mon Jun 29 19:59:52 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:59:52 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Speaking of reloads In-Reply-To: References: <20090629211413.18413lbrfqfcu0ao@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <226901c9f92e$d738de50$85aa9af0$@com> Greg, quit being a paranoid party pooper.... :D Hey Dustin, Halleluiah and amen! > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Greg Clark > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:48 PM > To: brodwcjj at integrity.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Speaking of reloads > > Was there an igniter in said reloads ??? > > :) :) :) > > -- Greg > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:14 PM, wrote: > > With all the talk on reloads lately ?the thing I wanted to say the most is; > > How REFRESHING it was to go to the vendor, ?show my cert L2 NAR card > > and buy some H reloads. ? ?I didn't have to find/bug a leup buddy. ?I > > didn't have to wonder if I could get them flown the same day. > > NAR/TRA Certification for hobby self regulation is such a sensible approach. > > I hadn't flown L1 since the LEup fiasco hit, ?and so it was nice to > > see my Binder Jaguar go up on an H97 again. > > > > Dustin > > BAR-NAR-L2 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Mon Jun 29 20:21:37 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:21:37 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... In-Reply-To: <00b001c9f91c$59cff050$0d6fd0f0$@com> References: <00b001c9f91c$59cff050$0d6fd0f0$@com> Message-ID: <00d201c9f931$e181e570$a485b050$@net> With a little modification that was my original magazine. Now it is a day box. - Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Fred Azinger Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM To: 'Fred Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Would help if I include the link -- sorry http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 PM To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... Not affiliated in any way.... I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of completed motors. I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. FredA From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon Jun 29 20:39:23 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: References: <720532564.591481246312349657.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <3F70517D9FE444289A8A5DC7F23E26B2@downstair> Message-ID: > I'd be spending more money for the permit than I would buying stuff > that required it. > > So -- here's a question. > > Ematches are regulated, right? So, let's say that I have contingent > storage, and that I bought 2 ematches, but only used two. Do I have > to check that one ematch into the contingent magazine? > > -- Greg Let's see: A drug dealer has two bags of heroin. He sells one and then gets searched by the cops. He only has one bag left in his pocket. Is he still in trouble? Every nit, Greg, every nit has to be accounted for when you're dealing with ATF. Scenario 1: You buy two ematches from some guy in a dark alley. ATF never knows you ever had any ematches. You only use one. ATF still doesn't know you have any ematches. You hide the ematch under your bed and everyone is happy. Scenario 2: You buy two ematches from some guy in a dark alley. NSA satellites record the deal. Homeland security puts you under 24-hour surveillance. At the next launch you use one ematch. The undercover federal agents watch you hide the other ematch under the car seat. They swarm all over you and you end up trying to flush the ematch down a porta-potty. When that doesn't work you try to eat it. Your picture is all over the evening news and YouTube. Now this is what you have to ask yourself: Are you really worried about scenario 2? Or is scenario 1 the more realistic of the two? But if you've already signed a deal with the devil, best abide by the terms while the contract is in effect even when the devil's in the details. +McG+ From brodwcjj at integrity.com Mon Jun 29 20:40:31 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:40:31 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Speaking of reloads In-Reply-To: References: <20090629211413.18413lbrfqfcu0ao@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <20090629224031.16775hgt07u517gg@wm.integrity.com> No, just a motor starter, required for use of this consumer product. :-P Quoting Greg Clark : > Was there an igniter in said reloads ??? > > :) :) :) > > -- Greg > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:14 PM, wrote: >> With all the talk on reloads lately ?the thing I wanted to say the most is; >> How REFRESHING it was to go to the vendor, ?show my cert L2 NAR card >> and buy some H reloads. ? ?I didn't have to find/bug a leup buddy. ?I >> didn't have to wonder if I could get them flown the same day. >> NAR/TRA Certification for hobby self regulation is such a sensible approach. >> I hadn't flown L1 since the LEup fiasco hit, ?and so it was nice to >> see my Binder Jaguar go up on an H97 again. >> >> Dustin >> BAR-NAR-L2 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 29 20:48:32 2009 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:48:32 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape In-Reply-To: References: <20090626224042.17011rhfrv4x3cu8@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: Found it, man this has been in my shed a long time. The battery expiration date was March2005. http://www.rockethead.net/images/nightLaunch.JPG > From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com > To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:41:43 -0600 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape > > I have a electroluminescent tape kit that I won in a raffle at a launch > (FITS 2003??) 7 or 8 years ago and it is still sitting in my shed. I would > be willing to send it your way for a few bucks. I don't think I am ever > going to use it. Contact me off list if you want it. > jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:40 PM > To: > Subject: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape > > > To Ian and the list: > > > > Hi Ian, when you were LCO-ing at the Brothers night launch last > > weekend you asked about the source for the electroluminescent light > > tape on my extended Binder Dragonfly: > > http://www.integrity.com/homes/brodwcjj/Night-launch-tape.html > > I said I'd get back to you via the list so here I be: > > > > I bought that from a website that no longer exists :-( nightlaunch.com > > > > A rocketeer on another list helped me find a current site that one can > > order similar product: > > http://www.microstru.com/ > > > > specifically the Experimenter kits page: > > http://www.microstru.com/Experimenter-Kits.html > > > > I like the tape better than the wire because you can put it on the > > outside with less drag. > > I glue it on the payload section around the tape edges with Elmers. > > So if I ever want to remove it I can soak it off with some moisture. > > The Elmers is strong enough to fly it on G's ... multiple times .. no > > stripping off in flight yet. > > > > Dustin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 -------------- next part -------------- Found it, man this has been in my shed a long time.? The battery expiration date was March2005. http://www.rockethead.net/images/nightLaunch.JPG http://www.rockethead.net/images/nightLaunch.JPG ? ? > From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com > To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:41:43 -0600 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape > > I have a electroluminescent tape kit that I won in a raffle at a launch > (FITS 2003??) 7 or 8 years ago and it is still sitting in my shed. I would > be willing to send it your way for a few bucks. I don't think I am ever > going to use it. Contact me off list if you want it. > jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:40 PM > To: > Subject: [RocketsNW] Electroluminescent tape > > > To Ian and the list: > > > > Hi Ian, when you were LCO-ing at the Brothers night launch last > > weekend you asked about the source for the electroluminescent light > > tape on my extended Binder Dragonfly: > > http://www.integrity.com/homes/brodwcjj/Night-launch-tape.html > > I said I'd get back to you via the list so here I be: > > > > I bought that from a website that no longer exists :-( nightlaunch.com > > > > A rocketeer on another list helped me find a current site that one can > > order similar product: > > http://www.microstru.com/ > > > > specifically the Experimenter kits page: > > http://www.microstru.com/Experimenter-Kits.html > > > > I like the tape better than the wire because you can put it on the > > outside with less drag. > > I glue it on the payload section around the tape edges with Elmers. > > So if I ever want to remove it I can soak it off with some moisture. > > The Elmers is strong enough to fly it on G's ... multiple times .. no > > stripping off in flight yet. > > > > Dustin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 Check it out. From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Mon Jun 29 22:38:07 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:38:07 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage In-Reply-To: References: <30398058.1246319829634.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099183216@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> Scott are you watching Robot Chicken???? :) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:45 PM To: 'Greg Clark'; steve-c at ix.netcom.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage Rocket science math is hard...............)-; Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:09 PM To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage oooops, that calculator goes along with my special calendar. I meant 1 ;) On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:57 PM, wrote: > No Greg - you bought (2) and spent (2) - you don't have to check > anything into contingent storage. May I suggest a math class instead? > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Greg Clark >>Sent: Jun 29, 2009 3:20 PM >>To: Dennis Winningstad >>Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >> >>I'd be spending more money for the permit than I would buying stuff >>that required it. >> >>So -- here's a question. >> >>Ematches are regulated, right? So, let's say that I have contingent >>storage, and that I bought 2 ematches, but only used two. Do I have >>to check that one ematch into the contingent magazine? >> >>-- Greg >> >>On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Dennis >>Winningstad wrote: >>> Storage of thermolite - black powder - etc? >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> It is bad luck to be superstitious. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:55 PM >>> To: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >>> >>> I am curious, why you are renewing? >>> >>> >>> Scott T. Bowers >>> www.scottsrockets.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:52 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] LEUP renewal with contingent storage >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all. I'm renewing my LEUP and am meeting with the agent next >>> week. I have all my receipts and my storage log that shows when >>> the motors were checked in and when they were burned. I have >>> contingent storage and wanted to hear from those of you who also >>> have contingent storage and have had a renewal what to expect from >>> the meeting. I'm assuming this should be a pretty easy meeting since there is no magazine to inspect. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockets mailing list >>Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Mon Jun 29 22:39:56 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:39:56 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... In-Reply-To: <226801c9f92e$88ee9a00$9acbce00$@com> References: <00b001c9f91c$59cff050$0d6fd0f0$@com> <226801c9f92e$88ee9a00$9acbce00$@com> Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099183235@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> 5g 75 is a long motor? Greg you are getting soft on us..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda got more. They're very nice for the longer motors. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'Fred Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > Would help if I include the link -- sorry > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 PM > To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of > completed motors. > > I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. > > FredA > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at blastzone.com Mon Jun 29 22:53:14 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:53:14 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099183235@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <00b001c9f91c$59cff050$0d6fd0f0$@com> <226801c9f92e$88ee9a00$9acbce00$@com> <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE2099183235@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <22b401c9f947$0f0882a0$2d1987e0$@com> Lemme go see if I can fit my 6" grains in it.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:40 PM > To: Greg Deputy; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > 5g 75 is a long motor? Greg you are getting soft on us..... > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Greg Deputy > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:58 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda got more. They're very nice for the > longer motors. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On > > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > > To: 'Fred Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > Would help if I include the link -- sorry > > > > > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] > > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 PM > > To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' > > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > > > I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage > of > > completed motors. > > > > I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > > > They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. > > > > FredA > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From sb at berfield.com Mon Jun 29 23:02:33 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:02:33 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Message-ID: Those look pretty nice. Too bad they are in Portland -----Original Message----- From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:39 PM To: 'Greg Deputy', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... 5g 75 is a long motor? Greg you are getting soft on us..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda got more. They're very nice for the longer motors. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'Fred Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > Would help if I include the link -- sorry > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 PM > To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of > completed motors. > > I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. > > FredA > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Those look pretty nice. Too bad they are in Portland -----Original Message----- From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:39 PM To: 'Greg Deputy', rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... 5g 75 is a long motor? Greg you are getting soft on us..... -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda got more. They're very nice for the longer motors. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'Fred Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > Would help if I include the link -- sorry > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 PM > To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of > completed motors. > > I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. > > FredA > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 30 07:24:59 2009 From: jackanderson98012 at hotmail.com (Jack Anderson) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:24:59 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Our local Army / Navy surplus store sells this size ammo can along with 3 or four other sizes all the time. I think the going price for the big ones was around $18.95 here in Salt Lake. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Berfield" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:02 AM To: "Brad Wright" ; "Greg Deputy" ; Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > Those look pretty nice. Too bad they are in Portland > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:39 PM > To: 'Greg Deputy', rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > 5g 75 is a long motor? Greg you are getting soft on us..... -----Original > Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: > Monday, June 29, 2009 7:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: > [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda > got more. They're very nice for the longer motors. > -----Original > Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > Sent: > Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'Fred Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > Would help if I > include the link -- sorry > > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > From: > Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 > PM > To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > I bought some of these --- they are > really nice for transport or storage of > completed motors. > > I can fit > a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > They are made to hold two 5" motor > rounds -- two each. > > FredA > > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From carl at mousetrap.com Tue Jun 30 07:38:20 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:38:20 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have purchased ammo cans from Federal Army and Navy Surplusin Seattle. I don't remember seeing the mortar cans that Fred mentions, but the 50 caliber "tall" cans might be useful. I personally use two of the "short" 50 caliber cans for small motors. - Carl On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > Those look pretty nice. Too bad they are in Portland > -----Original Message----- > From: > Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] > Sent: > Monday, June 29, 2009 10:39 PM > To: > 'Greg Deputy', rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: > Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > 5g 75 is a long motor? Greg you are getting soft on us..... -----Original > Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: Monday, June > 29, 2009 7:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo > cases for motors.... Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda got more. They're > very nice for the longer motors. > -----Original Message----- > From: > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'Fred > Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for > motors.... > > Would help if I include the link -- sorry > > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > From: > Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 > PM > To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > I bought some of these --- they are > really nice for transport or storage of > completed motors. > > I can fit a > 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds > -- two each. > > FredA > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets_______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- http://www.gr8gear.com/catalog/Ammo-Cans-Containers/ Federal Army and Navy Surplus in Seattle. I don't remember seeing the mortar cans that Fred mentions, but the 50 caliber "tall" cans might be useful. I personally use two of the "short" 50 caliber cans for small motors. ?- Carl On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Scott Berfield < mailto:sb at berfield.com sb at berfield.com > wrote: Those look pretty nice. Too bad they are in Portland -----Original Message----- From: Brad Wright [mailto: mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com bradwr at wrightholdings.com ] Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:39 PM To: 'Greg Deputy', mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... 5g 75 is a long motor? Greg you are getting soft on us..... -----Original Message----- From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:58 PM To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda got more. They're very nice for the longer motors. > -----Original Message----- > From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'Fred Azinger'; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > Would help if I include the link -- sorry > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > From: Fred Azinger [mailto: mailto:fred at azinger.com fred at azinger.com ] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 PM > To: ' mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com ' > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > I bought some of these --- they are really nice for transport or storage of > completed motors. > > I can fit a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds -- two each. > > FredA > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From absworld at cet.com Tue Jun 30 08:49:48 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:49:48 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01ad01c9f99a$660b34a0$32219de0$@com> Same thing over thisaway in Spokane. Last time I was in our local surplus store, they had gobs of ammo cans in multiple sizes including the ones discussed below. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Jack Anderson Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:25 AM To: Scott Berfield; Brad Wright; Greg Deputy; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Our local Army / Navy surplus store sells this size ammo can along with 3 or four other sizes all the time. I think the going price for the big ones was around $18.95 here in Salt Lake. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Berfield" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:02 AM To: "Brad Wright" ; "Greg Deputy" ; Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > Those look pretty nice. Too bad they are in Portland > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:39 PM > To: 'Greg Deputy', rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > 5g 75 is a long motor? Greg you are getting soft on us..... -----Original > Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: > Monday, June 29, 2009 7:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: > [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda > got more. They're very nice for the longer motors. > -----Original > Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > Sent: > Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'Fred Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > > Would help if I > include the link -- sorry > > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > From: > Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 > PM > To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > I bought some of these --- they are > really nice for transport or storage of > completed motors. > > I can fit > a 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > They are made to hold two 5" motor > rounds -- two each. > > FredA > > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.12.92/2203 - Release Date: 06/26/09 05:53:00 From fred.azinger at intel.com Tue Jun 30 09:19:55 2009 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:19:55 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have several sizes of ammo cans purchased from various surplus outlets, but found most top out at storing items that are shorter then about ~20 inches -- which is just not sufficient for much of a motor. These are the first I've seen that could store a move "average" motor set. I put the entire load of finished motors for Team Hardtails' Summers Skies flying in one of these for the last launch. It was super nice to have them clean, dry and easily managed in one (full) box. In the box was: (from memory): 1 - 5G75 M-2400 2 - 3G75 L-800, L-900 1 - 2G75 K-2000 1 - 2G54 K-400 2 - 4G54 K-900 2 - 5G54 L-1200 Plus a Rubbermaid tub of grease, snap ring pliers and some rags. They are sized for 120mm motor rounds -- 5" grains (for your 6" motor) should fit fine. 5" motors should fit fine.... FredA -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:38 AM To: Scott Berfield Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... I have purchased ammo cans from Federal Army and Navy Surplusin Seattle. I don't remember seeing the mortar cans that Fred mentions, but the 50 caliber "tall" cans might be useful. I personally use two of the "short" 50 caliber cans for small motors. - Carl On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Scott Berfield wrote: > Those look pretty nice. Too bad they are in Portland > -----Original Message----- > From: > Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] > Sent: > Monday, June 29, 2009 10:39 PM > To: > 'Greg Deputy', rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: > Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for motors.... > 5g 75 is a long motor? Greg you are getting soft on us..... -----Original > Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto: > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Deputy Sent: Monday, June > 29, 2009 7:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo > cases for motors.... Yep, I've got one of these, shoulda got more. They're > very nice for the longer motors. > -----Original Message----- > From: > rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > > Behalf Of Fred Azinger > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:48 PM > To: 'Fred > Azinger'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Ammo cases for > motors.... > > Would help if I include the link -- sorry > > > > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/1245877510.html > > > > > > From: > Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:46 > PM > To: 'rockets at rocketsnw.com' > Subject: Ammo cases for motors.... > > > > > Not affiliated in any way.... > > I bought some of these --- they are > really nice for transport or storage of > completed motors. > > I can fit a > 5 grain 75mm M motor in these. > > They are made to hold two 5" motor rounds > -- two each. > > FredA > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets_______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From melamy at earthlink.net Tue Jun 30 13:55:20 2009 From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RocketsNW] looking for ride from Seattle to Brothers July 11th weekend Message-ID: <10717110.1246395320864.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I have some test rocket flights I would like to make, so I am looking for a way to get from Seattle down to Brothers for the July launch. As before, I will assist with gas and I am reasonably talkative or quiet as needed. Other methods of bribery would be considered. I am currently working on a flight controller that will handle air starts, two stage, apogee, and dual deployment that I want to use for my L3 that I want to accomplish in 2010 at XPRS. Any help getting me to launches would be greatly appreciated. I would drive, but ankle and knee injuries prevent me from doing long distances behind the wheel (being a passenger is hard enough). Thanks! best regards, Steve Thatcher