From fred.azinger at intel.com Tue Dec 1 09:28:35 2009 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 09:28:35 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant In-Reply-To: <8e6d83504dff226e87264acc8c4d4a19.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <39D3F264-DD79-11DE-A9C8-003065EF3D46@verizon.net>, <472446a843f8d5f70f6091e45d55bec3.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <012301ca7245$538622d0$fa926870$@net> <8e6d83504dff226e87264acc8c4d4a19.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: I checked into this some as I was working with a Chinese chemical house for another deal. I found out they too manufacture Nano-Al using the laser process and usually ship it mixed with a proprietary liquid dispersant to avoid instant oxidation. This mix sounded like the perfect medium for use in HTPB/DOA mixes......imagine that. They were willing to send me a sample, but international HazMat shipping was looking pretty nasty and I passed. Maybe someday I'll reopen the investigation. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:36 PM To: Marty Weiser Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant Nanoparticles may cold-weld, but micron size particles of metals like aluminum and magnesium tend to flash if they aren't passivated before being exposed to air. My point all along however has been that the whole process of creating nanoparticles of aluminum will remain too expensive for use as bulk rocket fuel. Even on the moon there will always be more practical solutions. It's a neat science demonstration, something cool to brag about having done, but not likely any kind of breakthrough in practical propulsion. John Wickman's Al/LOX slurry and Mg/CO2 rocket are closer to being of actual use in space exploration IMO. But I am kind of envious. +McG+ > One approach to making nanopowders is to condense the vapor on a cold > finger. The cold finger is typically cooled with liquid nitrogen and a > metal is vaporized in the chamber containing the finger. Having a very > cold > surface results in the nucleation of many particles rather than the growth > of a few large ones. The finger has to be scraped down periodically > before > the nuclei can coalesce into larger, agglomerated particles. > > The atmosphere in the chamber will determine the type of particle. For > example aluminum in vacuum will give metal particles, a small amount of > oxygen will result in alumina, nitrogen will result in AlN. Sometimes > oxygen or nitrogen are let into the chamber before the particles are > scraped > from the finger to passivate the surface. If this is not done, the fine > metal particles tend to cold weld together (a sintering process) when they > come into contact. Of course even the passivated particles will bond > together due to surface interactions, but they can normally be broken up > fairly easily. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:16 PM > To: Vince Simoneau > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant > > > So.. where do you get a nano grinder ? > > One site mentioned using high power(kilowatt range) ultrasonic grinding in > a fluid medium. Another said they used laser vaporization. > > Given that demand for various nanoparticles is rapidly increasing and the > price is still extremely high for most materials it's going to be a while > before nano-aluminum fueled rockets become cost competitive. > > "Nanoscale" particles are defined to be under 100 nM in size. The > smallest conventionally ground aluminum is around 3 microns--3000 nM, > thirty times bigger. Five micron is a more standard size for finely > ground aluminum. The difference between a BB and a large beach ball, or > more. That's why previous efforts to make aluminum/ice motors didn't > work. An 18 nM particle of aluminum is only a couple hundred atoms > across. > +McG+ > > > >>> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:08:38 -0800 >>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>> To: garyg_nwr at verizon.net >>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant >>> >>> I Googled nano-aluminum. Prices depending on particle size seem to run >>> around $2000 -$3000 per kilogram. >>> >>> Yeah, real practical rocket fuel at that price. >>> Still a cool launch though. >>> >>> They don't say how much propellant they used in that rocket but I'm >>> guessing it was probably a thousand dollar flight. >>> >>> Maybe someday. >>> >>> Until then I'll dream about more practical things, like propellant >>> based >>> on monatomic nitrogen embedded in argon ice. Oh wait, that was a >>> laser... >>> ;-) >>> +McG+ >>> >>> >>> > See the link below for a report on NASA's use of aluminum-ice. Anyone >>> > heard of this before? >>> > http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/deltav/24457/?nlid=2562&a=f >>> > >>> > Gary >>> > >>> > Gary Goncher >>> > ggoncher at verizon.net >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Dec 1 17:37:06 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:37:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant In-Reply-To: References: <39D3F264-DD79-11DE-A9C8-003065EF3D46@verizon.net>, <472446a843f8d5f70f6091e45d55bec3.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <012301ca7245$538622d0$fa926870$@net> <8e6d83504dff226e87264acc8c4d4a19.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: This is one of the problems with metallic nanopowders. As soon as it's exposed to air it oxidizes, which for particles a few hundred atoms across means a good portion of the metal on the outside is used up. It takes special processing methods to use the stuff. When those researchers made that ALICE motor they couldn't just mix the powder with tap water and put it in a freezer. Had to be a lot more involved process than that. I'm thinking de-ionized water ice dust, high pressure vacuum pressing, things like that. Nano-aluminum as a minor ingredient of propellants to tweak the combustive properties has merit. As the bulk fuel, uh uh. Maybe someday we will have domestic production at reasonable prices. +McG+ > I checked into this some as I was working with a Chinese chemical house > for another deal. > I found out they too manufacture Nano-Al using the laser process and > usually ship it mixed with a proprietary liquid dispersant to avoid > instant oxidation. > This mix sounded like the perfect medium for use in HTPB/DOA > mixes......imagine that. > They were willing to send me a sample, but international HazMat shipping > was looking pretty nasty and I passed. > Maybe someday I'll reopen the investigation. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:36 PM > To: Marty Weiser > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant > > Nanoparticles may cold-weld, but micron size particles of metals like > aluminum and magnesium tend to flash if they aren't passivated before > being exposed to air. > > My point all along however has been that the whole process of creating > nanoparticles of aluminum will remain too expensive for use as bulk rocket > fuel. Even on the moon there will always be more practical solutions. > It's a neat science demonstration, something cool to brag about having > done, but not likely any kind of breakthrough in practical propulsion. > John Wickman's Al/LOX slurry and Mg/CO2 rocket are closer to being of > actual use in space exploration IMO. > > But I am kind of envious. > +McG+ > > >> One approach to making nanopowders is to condense the vapor on a cold >> finger. The cold finger is typically cooled with liquid nitrogen and a >> metal is vaporized in the chamber containing the finger. Having a very >> cold >> surface results in the nucleation of many particles rather than the >> growth >> of a few large ones. The finger has to be scraped down periodically >> before >> the nuclei can coalesce into larger, agglomerated particles. >> >> The atmosphere in the chamber will determine the type of particle. For >> example aluminum in vacuum will give metal particles, a small amount of >> oxygen will result in alumina, nitrogen will result in AlN. Sometimes >> oxygen or nitrogen are let into the chamber before the particles are >> scraped >> from the finger to passivate the surface. If this is not done, the fine >> metal particles tend to cold weld together (a sintering process) when >> they >> come into contact. Of course even the passivated particles will bond >> together due to surface interactions, but they can normally be broken up >> fairly easily. >> >> Marty >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:16 PM >> To: Vince Simoneau >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant >> >> > So.. where do you get a nano grinder ? >> >> One site mentioned using high power(kilowatt range) ultrasonic grinding >> in >> a fluid medium. Another said they used laser vaporization. >> >> Given that demand for various nanoparticles is rapidly increasing and >> the >> price is still extremely high for most materials it's going to be a >> while >> before nano-aluminum fueled rockets become cost competitive. >> >> "Nanoscale" particles are defined to be under 100 nM in size. The >> smallest conventionally ground aluminum is around 3 microns--3000 nM, >> thirty times bigger. Five micron is a more standard size for finely >> ground aluminum. The difference between a BB and a large beach ball, or >> more. That's why previous efforts to make aluminum/ice motors didn't >> work. An 18 nM particle of aluminum is only a couple hundred atoms >> across. >> +McG+ >> >> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:08:38 -0800 >>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>>> To: garyg_nwr at verizon.net >>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant >>>> >>>> I Googled nano-aluminum. Prices depending on particle size seem to run >>>> around $2000 -$3000 per kilogram. >>>> >>>> Yeah, real practical rocket fuel at that price. >>>> Still a cool launch though. >>>> >>>> They don't say how much propellant they used in that rocket but I'm >>>> guessing it was probably a thousand dollar flight. >>>> >>>> Maybe someday. >>>> >>>> Until then I'll dream about more practical things, like propellant >>>> based >>>> on monatomic nitrogen embedded in argon ice. Oh wait, that was a >>>> laser... >>>> ;-) >>>> +McG+ >>>> >>>> >>>> > See the link below for a report on NASA's use of aluminum-ice. >>>> Anyone >>>> > heard of this before? >>>> > http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/deltav/24457/?nlid=2562&a=f >>>> > >>>> > Gary >>>> > >>>> > Gary Goncher >>>> > ggoncher at verizon.net >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Rockets mailing list >>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From fred.azinger at intel.com Tue Dec 1 19:55:06 2009 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:55:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant In-Reply-To: References: <39D3F264-DD79-11DE-A9C8-003065EF3D46@verizon.net>, <472446a843f8d5f70f6091e45d55bec3.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <012301ca7245$538622d0$fa926870$@net> <8e6d83504dff226e87264acc8c4d4a19.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: Yep -- the oxidation layer becomes an increasing portion of the mass as particle size decreases. This creates a diminished returns as the metal particle sizes decrease unless steps are taken to inhibit the oxidation. An effect that one needs to take into account when going multi-modal with aluminum. -----Original Message----- From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:37 PM To: Azinger, Fred Cc: Marty Weiser; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant This is one of the problems with metallic nanopowders. As soon as it's exposed to air it oxidizes, which for particles a few hundred atoms across means a good portion of the metal on the outside is used up. It takes special processing methods to use the stuff. When those researchers made that ALICE motor they couldn't just mix the powder with tap water and put it in a freezer. Had to be a lot more involved process than that. I'm thinking de-ionized water ice dust, high pressure vacuum pressing, things like that. Nano-aluminum as a minor ingredient of propellants to tweak the combustive properties has merit. As the bulk fuel, uh uh. Maybe someday we will have domestic production at reasonable prices. +McG+ > I checked into this some as I was working with a Chinese chemical house > for another deal. > I found out they too manufacture Nano-Al using the laser process and > usually ship it mixed with a proprietary liquid dispersant to avoid > instant oxidation. > This mix sounded like the perfect medium for use in HTPB/DOA > mixes......imagine that. > They were willing to send me a sample, but international HazMat shipping > was looking pretty nasty and I passed. > Maybe someday I'll reopen the investigation. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:36 PM > To: Marty Weiser > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant > > Nanoparticles may cold-weld, but micron size particles of metals like > aluminum and magnesium tend to flash if they aren't passivated before > being exposed to air. > > My point all along however has been that the whole process of creating > nanoparticles of aluminum will remain too expensive for use as bulk rocket > fuel. Even on the moon there will always be more practical solutions. > It's a neat science demonstration, something cool to brag about having > done, but not likely any kind of breakthrough in practical propulsion. > John Wickman's Al/LOX slurry and Mg/CO2 rocket are closer to being of > actual use in space exploration IMO. > > But I am kind of envious. > +McG+ > > >> One approach to making nanopowders is to condense the vapor on a cold >> finger. The cold finger is typically cooled with liquid nitrogen and a >> metal is vaporized in the chamber containing the finger. Having a very >> cold >> surface results in the nucleation of many particles rather than the >> growth >> of a few large ones. The finger has to be scraped down periodically >> before >> the nuclei can coalesce into larger, agglomerated particles. >> >> The atmosphere in the chamber will determine the type of particle. For >> example aluminum in vacuum will give metal particles, a small amount of >> oxygen will result in alumina, nitrogen will result in AlN. Sometimes >> oxygen or nitrogen are let into the chamber before the particles are >> scraped >> from the finger to passivate the surface. If this is not done, the fine >> metal particles tend to cold weld together (a sintering process) when >> they >> come into contact. Of course even the passivated particles will bond >> together due to surface interactions, but they can normally be broken up >> fairly easily. >> >> Marty >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:16 PM >> To: Vince Simoneau >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant >> >> > So.. where do you get a nano grinder ? >> >> One site mentioned using high power(kilowatt range) ultrasonic grinding >> in >> a fluid medium. Another said they used laser vaporization. >> >> Given that demand for various nanoparticles is rapidly increasing and >> the >> price is still extremely high for most materials it's going to be a >> while >> before nano-aluminum fueled rockets become cost competitive. >> >> "Nanoscale" particles are defined to be under 100 nM in size. The >> smallest conventionally ground aluminum is around 3 microns--3000 nM, >> thirty times bigger. Five micron is a more standard size for finely >> ground aluminum. The difference between a BB and a large beach ball, or >> more. That's why previous efforts to make aluminum/ice motors didn't >> work. An 18 nM particle of aluminum is only a couple hundred atoms >> across. >> +McG+ >> >> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:08:38 -0800 >>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>>> To: garyg_nwr at verizon.net >>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant >>>> >>>> I Googled nano-aluminum. Prices depending on particle size seem to run >>>> around $2000 -$3000 per kilogram. >>>> >>>> Yeah, real practical rocket fuel at that price. >>>> Still a cool launch though. >>>> >>>> They don't say how much propellant they used in that rocket but I'm >>>> guessing it was probably a thousand dollar flight. >>>> >>>> Maybe someday. >>>> >>>> Until then I'll dream about more practical things, like propellant >>>> based >>>> on monatomic nitrogen embedded in argon ice. Oh wait, that was a >>>> laser... >>>> ;-) >>>> +McG+ >>>> >>>> >>>> > See the link below for a report on NASA's use of aluminum-ice. >>>> Anyone >>>> > heard of this before? >>>> > http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/deltav/24457/?nlid=2562&a=f >>>> > >>>> > Gary >>>> > >>>> > Gary Goncher >>>> > ggoncher at verizon.net >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Rockets mailing list >>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From vincesimoneau at msn.com Tue Dec 1 20:52:48 2009 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:52:48 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant In-Reply-To: References: <39D3F264-DD79-11DE-A9C8-003065EF3D46@verizon.net>, , <472446a843f8d5f70f6091e45d55bec3.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>, , , <012301ca7245$538622d0$fa926870$@net>, <8e6d83504dff226e87264acc8c4d4a19.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>, , , Message-ID: Explains why nano AlOx is $1 a kilo ... > From: fred.azinger at intel.com > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:55:06 -0800 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant > > Yep -- the oxidation layer becomes an increasing portion of the mass as particle size decreases. > This creates a diminished returns as the metal particle sizes decrease unless steps are taken to inhibit the oxidation. > An effect that one needs to take into account when going multi-modal with aluminum. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:37 PM > To: Azinger, Fred > Cc: Marty Weiser; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant > > This is one of the problems with metallic nanopowders. As soon as it's > exposed to air it oxidizes, which for particles a few hundred atoms across > means a good portion of the metal on the outside is used up. It takes > special processing methods to use the stuff. > > When those researchers made that ALICE motor they couldn't just mix the > powder with tap water and put it in a freezer. Had to be a lot more > involved process than that. I'm thinking de-ionized water ice dust, high > pressure vacuum pressing, things like that. > > Nano-aluminum as a minor ingredient of propellants to tweak the combustive > properties has merit. As the bulk fuel, uh uh. > > Maybe someday we will have domestic production at reasonable prices. > +McG+ > > > > I checked into this some as I was working with a Chinese chemical house > > for another deal. > > I found out they too manufacture Nano-Al using the laser process and > > usually ship it mixed with a proprietary liquid dispersant to avoid > > instant oxidation. > > This mix sounded like the perfect medium for use in HTPB/DOA > > mixes......imagine that. > > They were willing to send me a sample, but international HazMat shipping > > was looking pretty nasty and I passed. > > Maybe someday I'll reopen the investigation. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:36 PM > > To: Marty Weiser > > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant > > > > Nanoparticles may cold-weld, but micron size particles of metals like > > aluminum and magnesium tend to flash if they aren't passivated before > > being exposed to air. > > > > My point all along however has been that the whole process of creating > > nanoparticles of aluminum will remain too expensive for use as bulk rocket > > fuel. Even on the moon there will always be more practical solutions. > > It's a neat science demonstration, something cool to brag about having > > done, but not likely any kind of breakthrough in practical propulsion. > > John Wickman's Al/LOX slurry and Mg/CO2 rocket are closer to being of > > actual use in space exploration IMO. > > > > But I am kind of envious. > > +McG+ > > > > > >> One approach to making nanopowders is to condense the vapor on a cold > >> finger. The cold finger is typically cooled with liquid nitrogen and a > >> metal is vaporized in the chamber containing the finger. Having a very > >> cold > >> surface results in the nucleation of many particles rather than the > >> growth > >> of a few large ones. The finger has to be scraped down periodically > >> before > >> the nuclei can coalesce into larger, agglomerated particles. > >> > >> The atmosphere in the chamber will determine the type of particle. For > >> example aluminum in vacuum will give metal particles, a small amount of > >> oxygen will result in alumina, nitrogen will result in AlN. Sometimes > >> oxygen or nitrogen are let into the chamber before the particles are > >> scraped > >> from the finger to passivate the surface. If this is not done, the fine > >> metal particles tend to cold weld together (a sintering process) when > >> they > >> come into contact. Of course even the passivated particles will bond > >> together due to surface interactions, but they can normally be broken up > >> fairly easily. > >> > >> Marty > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > >> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:16 PM > >> To: Vince Simoneau > >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant > >> > >> > So.. where do you get a nano grinder ? > >> > >> One site mentioned using high power(kilowatt range) ultrasonic grinding > >> in > >> a fluid medium. Another said they used laser vaporization. > >> > >> Given that demand for various nanoparticles is rapidly increasing and > >> the > >> price is still extremely high for most materials it's going to be a > >> while > >> before nano-aluminum fueled rockets become cost competitive. > >> > >> "Nanoscale" particles are defined to be under 100 nM in size. The > >> smallest conventionally ground aluminum is around 3 microns--3000 nM, > >> thirty times bigger. Five micron is a more standard size for finely > >> ground aluminum. The difference between a BB and a large beach ball, or > >> more. That's why previous efforts to make aluminum/ice motors didn't > >> work. An 18 nM particle of aluminum is only a couple hundred atoms > >> across. > >> +McG+ > >> > >> > >> > >>>> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:08:38 -0800 > >>>> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > >>>> To: garyg_nwr at verizon.net > >>>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant > >>>> > >>>> I Googled nano-aluminum. Prices depending on particle size seem to run > >>>> around $2000 -$3000 per kilogram. > >>>> > >>>> Yeah, real practical rocket fuel at that price. > >>>> Still a cool launch though. > >>>> > >>>> They don't say how much propellant they used in that rocket but I'm > >>>> guessing it was probably a thousand dollar flight. > >>>> > >>>> Maybe someday. > >>>> > >>>> Until then I'll dream about more practical things, like propellant > >>>> based > >>>> on monatomic nitrogen embedded in argon ice. Oh wait, that was a > >>>> laser... > >>>> ;-) > >>>> +McG+ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > See the link below for a report on NASA's use of aluminum-ice. > >>>> Anyone > >>>> > heard of this before? > >>>> > http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/deltav/24457/?nlid=2562&a=f > >>>> > > >>>> > Gary > >>>> > > >>>> > Gary Goncher > >>>> > ggoncher at verizon.net > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > Rockets mailing list > >>>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Rockets mailing list > >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>>> > >>> > >>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. > >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ > >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail is faster and more secure than ever. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009 From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Tue Dec 1 23:40:34 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 23:40:34 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Sunriver sale....... 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Aerotech Hobby High Power reloads: So here is the deal: Order $200 retail, get a 20% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $500 retail, get a 25% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $1000 retail, get a 30% off retail instant rebate on your order Order $2500 retail, call for your instant rebate on your order.................... Aerotech H and above and delivered either at a launch that we attend or by special arrangement. Just think, 2010 is just right around the corner!! No limits, so get your friends together for this great deal. Here are the rules for the sale: 1. All orders must be emailed to rocketstore at earthlink.net 2. All orders need to be prepaid, with Paypal or credit card, (cash/check for in store sales-appointment or by arrangement required) 3. Shipping is charged at our cost, no handling fee 4. Sale ends on 12/28 5. Please advise if anything is a Xmas present. We do have good stock here, but if we need to order from a manufacturer, please remember that shipping is slower during the holidays...... 6. All high power motors needed to be delivered to certified flyers _________________ But wait, just one more thing. We will be offering a "old stock" sale next week............ Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From brodwcjj at integrity.com Wed Dec 2 06:03:43 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:03:43 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7e4460dc9cf3ba33a75207716c1581d8.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> Yes oxidizes and even to the point of autoignition. I recall a scary image of someone's burnt hand who had ball milled Mg without proper aeration during the process. The huge surface area produced, starved of oxygen, caused it to flare up on opening the milling jar. I can't find that image link right now but heck even iron if fine enough, and oxygen starved, can autoignite at room temperature when exposed to air: http://amazingrust.com/Experiments/how_to/Pyrophoric_Fe.html Be safe out there, Dustin > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: "Azinger, Fred" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aluminum-ice propellant > > This is one of the problems with metallic nanopowders. As soon as it's > exposed to air it oxidizes, which for particles a few hundred atoms across > means a good portion of the metal on the outside is used up. It takes > special processing methods to use the stuff. > From t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 09:37:57 2009 From: t3tsolottsolo at gmail.com (Tsolo Tsolo) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:37:57 -0700 Subject: [RocketsNW] CGI ? Message-ID: <987b3b040912020937m6968ca94v45db075416a3a82@mail.gmail.com> Has anybody used the CTI propellant Imax? What are its characteristics, ie flame smoke? Thanks! Tsolo From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 11:24:51 2009 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:24:51 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? Message-ID: I have often wondered if one could make a motor with the primary propellant being Thermite? I already see 3 cons with it, one being how hard it is to ignite and, another is the fact that it produces molten metal in its pure form, lastly producing a combustion chamber that could withstand the temperatures and pressures needed for the Thermite to give a reasonable amount of lift without a blow out or melt down. Even though it would cool as it falls back to earth it would still be a metal mass free falling under no control( DANGEROUS ) . I have heard of people using Thermite to ignite their motors but not a motor made of Thermite. Has anyone done a thermite motor before? Are there any other pro's or cons to it? From raystoner99 at comcast.net Wed Dec 2 12:22:44 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (raystoner99 at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:22:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <255745578.8697951259785364374.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> There is no significant gas produced by a thermite reaction. No gas, no thrust. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Guenther" To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:24:51 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? I have often wondered if one could make a motor with the primary propellant being Thermite? I already see 3 cons with it, one being how hard it is to ignite and, another is the fact that it produces molten metal in its pure form, lastly producing a combustion chamber that could withstand the temperatures and pressures needed for the Thermite to give a reasonable amount of lift without a blow out or melt down. Even though it would cool as it falls back to earth it would still be a metal mass free falling under no control( DANGEROUS ) . I have heard of people using Thermite to ignite their motors but not a motor made of Thermite. Has anyone done a thermite motor before? Are there any other pro's or cons to it? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 12:26:23 2009 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:26:23 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? In-Reply-To: <255745578.8697951259785364374.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <255745578.8697951259785364374.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: What if one were to triple cast with AP then a layer of Thermite then the inner layer of more AP? Or one could substitute AP with KNO3? On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:22 PM, wrote: > There is no significant gas produced by a thermite reaction. No gas, no > thrust. > > Ray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Guenther" > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:24:51 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? > > I have often wondered if one could make a motor with the primary propellant > being Thermite? I already see 3 cons with it, one being how hard it is to > ignite and, another is the fact that it produces molten metal in its pure > form, lastly producing a combustion chamber that could withstand the > temperatures and pressures needed for the Thermite to give a reasonable > amount of lift without a blow out or melt down. Even though it would cool > as it falls back to earth it would still be a metal mass free falling under > no control( DANGEROUS ) . I have heard of people using Thermite to ignite > their motors but not a motor made of Thermite. > > Has anyone done a thermite motor before? Are there any other pro's or cons > to it? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From raystoner99 at comcast.net Wed Dec 2 13:23:00 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (raystoner99 at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:23:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1688750813.8727551259788980865.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hmmm, AP, binder and metals... That would be APCP... Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Guenther" To: raystoner99 at comcast.net Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 12:26:23 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? What if one were to triple cast with AP then a layer of Thermite then the inner layer of more AP? Or one could substitute AP with KNO3? On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:22 PM, < raystoner99 at comcast.net > wrote: There is no significant gas produced by a thermite reaction. No gas, no thrust. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Guenther" < guentherchristopher at gmail.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:24:51 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? I have often wondered if one could make a motor with the primary propellant being Thermite? I already see 3 cons with it, one being how hard it is to ignite and, another is the fact that it produces molten metal in its pure form, lastly producing a combustion chamber that could withstand the temperatures and pressures needed for the Thermite to give a reasonable amount of lift without a blow out or melt down. Even though it would cool as it falls back to earth it would still be a metal mass free falling under no control( DANGEROUS ) . I have heard of people using Thermite to ignite their motors but not a motor made of Thermite. Has anyone done a thermite motor before? Are there any other pro's or cons to it? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Mfreptiles at aol.com Wed Dec 2 14:15:19 2009 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:15:19 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? Message-ID: Thermite is powder. Not castable. However, the same metals in thermite can be cast into APCP grains. We do it all the time. :) Mike F. In a message dated 12/2/2009 12:27:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, guentherchristopher at gmail.com writes: What if one were to triple cast with AP then a layer of Thermite then the inner layer of more AP? Or one could substitute AP with KNO3? From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Dec 2 18:46:23 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 18:46:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Thermite motors? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not with standard thermite. With certain other thermite-like combinations, yes. But these are used as packed powders and are considered fireworks. And only one of those combinations is really practical. The TRA research code only allows certain types of propellants, with(for the most part) really good reasons for the limitations. Step outside those bounds and you have crossed over to (insert Twilight Zone music here) "The Dark Side." I was the grand master of manganese thermite skyrockets back in my pyro days. As far as I could ever tell, I invented them. (But not the internet, Al Gore invented that. Heh.) But the purists of hobby rocketry ideology on this list discourage delving too deeply into such things here. (Hey, it's their list after all!) So if you really want to discuss going over to "The Dark Side" catch me at the meeting Thursday. +McG+ > I have often wondered if one could make a motor with the primary > propellant > being Thermite? I already see 3 cons with it, one being how hard it is to > ignite and, another is the fact that it produces molten metal in its pure > form, lastly producing a combustion chamber that could withstand the > temperatures and pressures needed for the Thermite to give a reasonable > amount of lift without a blow out or melt down. Even though it would cool > as it falls back to earth it would still be a metal mass free falling > under > no control( DANGEROUS ) . I have heard of people using Thermite to ignite > their motors but not a motor made of Thermite. > > Has anyone done a thermite motor before? Are there any other pro's or > cons > to it? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Dec 2 20:30:03 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:30:03 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda December 3rd 2009 Message-ID: Reminder, the next meeting it December 3rd. Yes, during the same time as the Civil War game. Join us if you can. Certainly comprehend the importance of the "Bowl" breaker. I'll be there, and will have $$ for our treasurer to put into the OROC reserves. If you cannot attend but want something discussed, please email me by 6pm tomorrow. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Krausert To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda December 3rd 2009 The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on December 3rd 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's Restuarant 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : 201 in 2010 Out Reach Challenge [Krausert] 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville - November Recap [Packard] 7:40 : Launch Schedule 2010; Brothers, Sheridan, and Wilsonville [Krausert] 7:45 : Financial Update [Moscoe] 7:50 : Election and Ballot Measures 2010 & Renewal, Release , Ballot Mailing [Krausert/Goncher] 7:55 : Defend Yourself From the President [Krausert] 8:00 : Rocket Talk [All] I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday December 3rd at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President From carl at mousetrap.com Thu Dec 3 12:24:06 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 12:24:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC November meeting minutes Message-ID: The minutes from the Washington Aerospace November meeting have been posted on the WAC website. They have actually been available for almost two weeks, but I forgot to make the announcement. http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news0911.php Thanks. - Carl From tim_ryerse at msn.com Thu Dec 3 17:00:41 2009 From: tim_ryerse at msn.com (MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:00:41 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda December 3rd 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not sure if I will have wifi connection this meeting, the last time I tried there wasn't any available, but I will take my puter none the less. Tim Ryerse :-) From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:30:03 -0800 Subject: Re: [OROC Members] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda December 3rd 2009 Reminder, the next meeting it December 3rd. Yes, during the same time as the Civil War game. Join us if you can. Certainly comprehend the importance of the "Bowl" breaker. I'll be there, and will have $$ for our treasurer to put into the OROC reserves. If you cannot attend but want something discussed, please email me by 6pm tomorrow. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Krausert To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda December 3rd 2009 The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on December 3rd 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. Where: Giovanni's Restuarant 12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton, Oregon 97005 Agenda: 7:30 : 201 in 2010 Out Reach Challenge [Krausert] 7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville - November Recap [Packard] 7:40 : Launch Schedule 2010; Brothers, Sheridan, and Wilsonville [Krausert] 7:45 : Financial Update [Moscoe] 7:50 : Election and Ballot Measures 2010 & Renewal, Release , Ballot Mailing [Krausert/Goncher] 7:55 : Defend Yourself From the President [Krausert] 8:00 : Rocket Talk [All] I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday December 3rd at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President From rnech at yahoo.com Thu Dec 3 19:23:32 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:23:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] SpaceX Hosts Preliminary Training for NASA ISS Astronauts Message-ID: <201770.578.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20091203006311&newsLang=en SpaceX Hosts Preliminary Training for NASA ISS Astronauts in Preparation for Dragon Spacecraft Rendezvous and Station Berthing (excerpt) HAWTHORNE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) recently conducted its first Dragon spacecraft operations training for a group of NASA astronauts and personnel at its corporate headquarters in Hawthorne, CA. The October training focused on how the crew will interface with the Dragon spacecraft while it is approaching and berthed to the International Space Station (ISS). Three of the participating astronauts ? Tracy Caldwell Dyson, Shannon Walker and Douglas Wheelock ? will be on board the ISS when Dragon makes its first visit under the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) program. The astronauts were briefed on vehicle ingress and egress, habitability of the spacecraft, payload handling and commanding through SpaceX's Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) Ultra High Frequency (UHF) Communication Unit. The training was a key step in SpaceX's progress towards providing NASA an alternative for cargo transport to and from the ISS when the Space Shuttle retires. "This was the first time the NASA astronauts who will interact with Dragon during its early missions were actually inside a Dragon flight vehicle," said Elon Musk, CEO and CTO, SpaceX. "SpaceX was honored to host the ISS crew for this preliminary training exercise, and we look forward to serving NASA further under the COTS program and CRS contracts." From kent.newman at comcast.net Thu Dec 3 21:38:12 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:38:12 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting Message-ID: <000001ca74a3$fbd063f0$f3712bd0$@newman@comcast.net> The December meeting of Washington Aerospace will be held this Saturday, December 5th, 7:00 PM, at the Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup, WA. The meeting agenda will include the following: . 2010 Launch Schedule . 2010 Club Goals . Group Buy Discussion . 2010 FITS . BOD Candidate Nominations . Bryan Whitemarsh' s Slotting Jig . Kent Newman's 4" N-Tropy . Denny Smith's 3" High Altitude "Thingie" . General Rocket Talk The meeting will conclude with Bill Munds and Dave Woodward doing a 4 minute herky-jerky to a yet-to-be-named tune by Lady GaGa. Peace out, Kent Newman From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Dec 3 22:03:19 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:03:19 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [ot] Ducks vs Beavers Message-ID: Didn't get to watch the game live. Only got to read some details. Both offensives did great. Defense needs help. Can any of them tackle? While Ducks won, that was a nervous last part of the 4th quarter. At the next Wilsonville launch(Jan 9th), lets hold a drag race; either decorated for ducks or beavers. D12 by all. Team majority with rockets back at LCO table win. I think Keith's controller can do a 6 way. Cheers, Robert From george at rachors.com Thu Dec 3 22:46:32 2009 From: george at rachors.com (George Rachor) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:46:32 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] [ot] Ducks vs Beavers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is why the 1/2 a motor was invented George ---------------------------------------------------------------------- George L. Rachor Jr. george at rachors.com Hillsboro, OR http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Dec 3, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Keith Packard wrote: > On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:03:19 -0800, "Robert Krausert" wrote: > >> At the next Wilsonville launch(Jan 9th), lets hold a drag race; either >> decorated for ducks or beavers. D12 by all. Team majority with rockets >> back at LCO table win. I think Keith's controller can do a 6 way. > > I'll even prepare a special treat (new clips) for the event. With luck, > we'll get one back from the trees. > > -- > keith.packard at intel.com > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 07:51:22 2009 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 07:51:22 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [ot] Ducks vs Beavers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Should there be a length, weight, and diameter requirement? I am assuming your D12 by all means that is the motor that will be used for the race. Just let me know and I will scratch build Marlon a Ducks rocket. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Didn't get to watch the game live. Only got to read some details. Both > offensives did great. Defense needs help. Can any of them tackle? While > Ducks won, that was a nervous last part of the 4th quarter. > > At the next Wilsonville launch(Jan 9th), lets hold a drag race; either > decorated for ducks or beavers. D12 by all. Team majority with rockets back > at LCO table win. I think Keith's controller can do a 6 way. > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rnech at yahoo.com Fri Dec 4 09:48:46 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 09:48:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] The next 60 Acres Launch Message-ID: <566042.57498.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hey Dave R., When's the next 60 Acres launch? Won't it be the one year anniversary of the restarting of launches there? What was the name of the launch? Robert From carl at mousetrap.com Fri Dec 4 09:56:27 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 09:56:27 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] The next 60 Acres Launch In-Reply-To: <566042.57498.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <566042.57498.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It was called "Frost & Fire" and held on December 20th (after some rescheduling due to snow). Don't you people keep your email? - Carl On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Robert Nech wrote: > Hey Dave R., > When's the next 60 Acres launch? Won't it be the one year anniversary of > the restarting of launches there? What was the name of the launch? > > Robert > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From seth.wallace at rocketmail.com Fri Dec 4 10:19:38 2009 From: seth.wallace at rocketmail.com (Seth Wallace) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:19:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] 98mm motors for sale Message-ID: <943489.73106.qm@web65306.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> need to raise some money for my next project so I'm selling some motors I have no current plans for. ? ? As a package I would like to sell a AMW N2020 WT and M1730 SK Skidmark and the 98mm 11000 hardware that fits these reloads. Hardware has only been used twice and is in great shape $1200 for everything. ? Also have an Aerotech M1419 reload for $400 ? I really don't want to ship, pick up in Olympia or I'll deliver or meet you half way of a reasonable distance. ? Please contact me off list with questions or interest SW From dmrandall at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 12:51:47 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:51:47 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] The next 60 Acres Launch In-Reply-To: References: <566042.57498.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40912041251q75a1547asa47bee3ba62fe125@mail.gmail.com> If 2 days notice is enough for folks, we can take advantage of this weekend's good weather and have "Frost & Fire II" on Sunday. I suggest a noon-3pm timeframe. If you'd be able to make it Sunday, let us know. I can bring GSE including a rail. If it's just too short notice, we can aim for Dec 20th again. Dave On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > It was called "Frost & Fire" and held on December 20th (after some > rescheduling due to snow). Don't you people keep your email? > > ?- Carl > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Robert Nech wrote: > >> Hey Dave R., >> ? When's the next 60 Acres launch? ?Won't it be the one year anniversary of >> the restarting of launches there? ?What was the name of the launch? >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From sb at berfield.com Fri Dec 4 16:19:07 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:19:07 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] The next 60 Acres Launch In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40912041251q75a1547asa47bee3ba62fe125@mail.gmail.com> References: <566042.57498.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6bc920e40912041251q75a1547asa47bee3ba62fe125@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006e01ca7540$90304640$b090d2c0$@com> I might be able to make it as long as it is totally unorganized. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 12:52 PM To: Carl Hamilton Cc: NW Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The next 60 Acres Launch If 2 days notice is enough for folks, we can take advantage of this weekend's good weather and have "Frost & Fire II" on Sunday. I suggest a noon-3pm timeframe. If you'd be able to make it Sunday, let us know. I can bring GSE including a rail. If it's just too short notice, we can aim for Dec 20th again. Dave On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > It was called "Frost & Fire" and held on December 20th (after some > rescheduling due to snow). Don't you people keep your email? > > ?- Carl > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Robert Nech wrote: > >> Hey Dave R., >> ? When's the next 60 Acres launch? ?Won't it be the one year anniversary of >> the restarting of launches there? ?What was the name of the launch? >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Fri Dec 4 16:40:01 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:40:01 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace 2010 elections Message-ID: It's that time again; the Northwest flying season has come to an end, people are starting their winter projects, and the new year is just around the corner. That means it's also time for the Washington Aerospace Club to elect its board of directors for 2010. The positions are president (Kent Newman), secretary/treasurer (Carl Hamilton), and operations manager (Mike Wyvel). If you are member in good standing and would like to contribute to the club's future as a board member, please let me know what position you are interested in. If you have any questions about the different positions, please feel free to ask me, Kent Newman, or Mike Wyvel. Kent's and Mike's email addresses are on the "cc" line of this message for your reference. We will be holding elections this month, so please let me know soon if you are interested. Thanks a lot. - Carl From mkquinn at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 17:54:17 2009 From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 17:54:17 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] The next 60 Acres Launch In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40912041251q75a1547asa47bee3ba62fe125@mail.gmail.com> References: <566042.57498.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6bc920e40912041251q75a1547asa47bee3ba62fe125@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5a1085980912041754q26621b22j9484175419c488ef@mail.gmail.com> Dang, I'm going to have to miss this one. Bundle up! Mark Q On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Dave Randall wrote: > If 2 days notice is enough for folks, we can take advantage of this > weekend's good weather and have "Frost & Fire II" on Sunday. I > suggest a noon-3pm timeframe. > > If you'd be able to make it Sunday, let us know. I can bring GSE > including a rail. If it's just too short notice, we can aim for Dec > 20th again. > > Dave > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > > It was called "Frost & Fire" and held on December 20th (after some > > rescheduling due to snow). Don't you people keep your email? > > > > - Carl > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Robert Nech wrote: > > > >> Hey Dave R., > >> When's the next 60 Acres launch? Won't it be the one year anniversary > of > >> the restarting of launches there? What was the name of the launch? > >> > >> Robert > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 18:17:50 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 18:17:50 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] The next 60 Acres Launch References: <566042.57498.qm@web111414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><6bc920e40912041251q75a1547asa47bee3ba62fe125@mail.gmail.com> <5a1085980912041754q26621b22j9484175419c488ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dave, Given the short notice. You should do a "unorgd" launch this weekend just to celebrate a year. Then do another "unorg" event titlesd "Frost & Fire II" on the 20th. Call this weekend launch the "CAB60AL" or Cold As [Bleep] 60 Acres Launch. think if you mix CAB60AL with CO2 it's explosive. Do both! Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Quinn" To: "Dave Randall" Cc: "NW Rocketry" Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] The next 60 Acres Launch > Dang, I'm going to have to miss this one. Bundle up! > > Mark Q > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Dave Randall wrote: > >> If 2 days notice is enough for folks, we can take advantage of this >> weekend's good weather and have "Frost & Fire II" on Sunday. I >> suggest a noon-3pm timeframe. >> >> If you'd be able to make it Sunday, let us know. I can bring GSE >> including a rail. If it's just too short notice, we can aim for Dec >> 20th again. >> >> Dave >> >> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote: >> > It was called "Frost & Fire" and held on December 20th (after some >> > rescheduling due to snow). Don't you people keep your email? >> > >> > - Carl >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Robert Nech wrote: >> > >> >> Hey Dave R., >> >> When's the next 60 Acres launch? Won't it be the one year >> >> anniversary >> of >> >> the restarting of launches there? What was the name of the launch? >> >> >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> - Dave >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From greg at blastzone.com Sat Dec 5 13:08:41 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:08:41 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] M650 and M1315 for sale, $250 each Message-ID: <123e01ca75ef$20014c70$6003e550$@com> I've got too many motors sitting around that I'll never get around to flying. So, unloading a couple 75mm's. I've got an M650 and an M1315 that I'm offering up for $250 each. Email me directly if you're interested. From dmrandall at gmail.com Sat Dec 5 23:02:32 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 23:02:32 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Frost & Fire II - 60 Acres Launch - Dec 20th Message-ID: <6bc920e40912052302i1ab90f74kf54f238e69f7fb77@mail.gmail.com> Folks, Mark your calendars! Sunday the 20th is the Second Annual Frost and Fire launch at 60 Acres in Redmdond! GSE (ground support equipment) will be available - controller, launch rods and a rail. Weather permitting, the launch will be from 11 am - 4 pm. This site supports Class 1 rockets. More site info here: http://www.rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 -- - Dave From mkquinn at gmail.com Sun Dec 6 11:33:42 2009 From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:33:42 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Frost & Fire II - 60 Acres Launch - Dec 20th In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40912052302i1ab90f74kf54f238e69f7fb77@mail.gmail.com> References: <6bc920e40912052302i1ab90f74kf54f238e69f7fb77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5a1085980912061133j39b946d6xc0590a2f5a7ddd75@mail.gmail.com> I plan on attending with my mid-power fleet and GSE. Mark Q On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Dave Randall wrote: > Folks, > > Mark your calendars! > > Sunday the 20th is the Second Annual Frost and Fire launch at 60 Acres > in Redmdond! GSE (ground support equipment) will be available - > controller, launch rods and a rail. Weather permitting, the launch > will be from 11 am - 4 pm. > > This site supports Class 1 rockets. > > More site info here: http://www.rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rnech at yahoo.com Sun Dec 6 11:47:18 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:47:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT] Geminid 2009 Meteor Shower Returns Starting 7DEC09 Message-ID: <445404.52532.qm@web111415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.prlog.org/10437774-2009-geminid-meteor-shower-to-reappear-december-7.html 2009 Geminid Meteor Shower to reappear December 7 (excerpt) Dec 03, 2009 ? Stargazers unite! One of the most impressive and dazzling spectacles of the night sky is quickly approaching! On December 7th through the 17th, be ready for the appearance of the annual Geminid Meteor Shower! This year, the peak of the shower is predicted to occur on the night of the 13th, so don?t miss the chance to educate the children in your life about such an incredible phenomenon. First observed in 1862 by R.P. Greg in Manchester, England, the Geminid meteor shower can be seen anywhere in the night sky. Astrologers suspect that the meteor showers grow more intense every year with recent showers producing up to 120-150 meteors per hour! To make the spectacle even more impressive, the meteor shower is one of the few that appears in colorful hues of green, blue, and yellow! Although in past years, the meteor shower has coincided with a full moon, the 2009 Geminid meteor shower will take place two days before the full moon making for optimal viewing! GoogTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kbw4pEnWCU Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geminids Other articles: http://skytour.homestead.com/met2009.html http://meteorshowersonline.com/geminids.html http://spaceweather.com/images2009/14dec09/skymap_north.gif?PHPSESSID=ctscknc7j2dkaf73hovcis68f6 http://www.astronomy.ie/geminids.html From sb at berfield.com Sun Dec 6 14:03:30 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:03:30 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Frost & Fire II - 60 Acres Launch - Dec 20th In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40912052302i1ab90f74kf54f238e69f7fb77@mail.gmail.com> References: <6bc920e40912052302i1ab90f74kf54f238e69f7fb77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000b01ca76bf$f2cdb8c0$d8692a40$@com> Barring several feet of snow, I'll be there -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 11:03 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] Frost & Fire II - 60 Acres Launch - Dec 20th Folks, Mark your calendars! Sunday the 20th is the Second Annual Frost and Fire launch at 60 Acres in Redmdond! GSE (ground support equipment) will be available - controller, launch rods and a rail. Weather permitting, the launch will be from 11 am - 4 pm. This site supports Class 1 rockets. More site info here: http://www.rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rnech at yahoo.com Sun Dec 6 17:41:24 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 17:41:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] The USAF's Secret Spaceplane (X-37b) Message-ID: <403462.56752.qm@web111410.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://english.kompas.com/read/xml/2009/12/03/1351415/The.USAFs.Secret.Spaceplane The USAF's Secret Spaceplane (excerpt) KOMPAS.com - It's been a long wait?in some ways, more than 50 years?but in April 2010, the U.S. Air Force is scheduled to launch an Atlas V booster from Cape Canaveral, Florida, carrying the newest U.S. spacecraft, the unmanned X-37, to orbit. The X-37 embodies the Air Force's desire for an operational spaceplane, a wish that dates to the 1950s, the era of the rocket-powered X-15 and X-20. In other ways, though, the X-37 will be picking up where another U.S. spaceplane, NASA's space shuttle, leaves off. With a wingspan of 15 feet and a length of 27.5 feet, the X-37 looks like a tiny space shuttle. It has a blunt (though windowless) nose, and one rocket engine bell instead of the shuttle's three. Two cargo doors open just as the shuttle's do, revealing a four- by seven-foot bay. Like the shuttle, the X-37 was designed for low Earth orbits?in the latter's case, altitudes of 125 to 575 miles. And the craft will fly like a shuttle, reentering the atmosphere with the orbiter's 40-degree nose-high attitude. After reentry, it will change to a 20-degree nose-down glide and, flying at up to 220 mph, land at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, with Edwards Air Force Base as an alternate. Another article about it. http://www.space.com/common/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20686 From cary4 at juno.com Sun Dec 6 21:57:37 2009 From: cary4 at juno.com (Cary A States) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 21:57:37 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA Challenges 350 Rocketeers Nationwide to Aim A Mile High Message-ID: <20091206.215738.3760.0.cary4@juno.com> -- NASA Challenges 350 Rocketeers Nationwide to Aim A Mile High http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=29749 "NASA has invited more than 350 student rocketeers from middle schools, high schools, colleges and universities -- 37 teams nationwide -- to take part in the 2009-2010 NASA Student Launch Projects. Their challenge is to build powerful rockets of their own design, complete with a working science payload, and launch them to an altitude of 1 mile." ____________________________________________________________ Love Spell Click here to light up your life with a love spell! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=Ah9O2QtNH3SQdGgjoB3ZzwAAJ1C1BQDOebirPKIHQRaqOG0-AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAAA= From rnech at yahoo.com Mon Dec 7 07:30:05 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:30:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Space Beer Now On Sale! Message-ID: <243250.25031.qm@web111408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=29748 (excerpt) Tokyo, Dec 3, 2009 (Sapporo Breweries Ltd. (PINK:SOOBF)(Head Office: Tokyo; President Masaru Fukunaga) is launching sales of the world's first beer produced using malt made 100% from "space barley," the progenies of spaceflight barley seeds, This limited offer is exclusive to the Internet and proceeds will go to charity. Applications to purchase the beer, which is dubbed "SAPPORO Space Barley," can be made from December 3 (Thu), 2009 on the dedicated web page set up on our company's website. Two hundred and fifty successful customers will be selected from among the applicants by lottery. The "space barley" used to make this beer is the fourth generation descendant of the Haruna Nijo malting barley that was developed by Sapporo Breweries and kept in space for five months during 2006 as part of our collaborative research with the Russian Academy of Sciences and Okayama University with the purpose of achieving self-sufficiency in food in the space environment. Since Sapporo Breweries was founded, we have continued to create excellent varieties for raw materials, and we are the only company in the world that operates breeding/research organizations for both barley and hops. This, the world's first sale of this "space beer," is the result of our extended nurturing/development of the required technologies. 6. Quantity: Limited to 250 boxes (Purchase limited to one box per person) 7. Price: 10,000 yen per box (including shipping and tax) * This beer will be sold for charity, to contribute to the promotion of science education for children and the development of space science research in Japan and Russia, through donation of all proceeds to Okayama University. From Simpsonclark at aol.com Mon Dec 7 08:47:14 2009 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 11:47:14 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA Challenges 350 Rocketeers Nationwide to Aim A Mile High Message-ID: The only challenge to that is to come up with a meaningful science experiment; now that's hard to do. -Robert In a message dated 12/6/2009 11:00:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cary4 at juno.com writes: -- NASA Challenges 350 Rocketeers Nationwide to Aim A Mile High http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=29749 "NASA has invited more than 350 student rocketeers from middle schools, high schools, colleges and universities -- 37 teams nationwide -- to take part in the 2009-2010 NASA Student Launch Projects. Their challenge is to build powerful rockets of their own design, complete with a working science payload, and launch them to an altitude of 1 mile." ____________________________________________________________ Love Spell Click here to light up your life with a love spell! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=Ah9O2QtNH3SQdGgjoB3ZzwAAJ1C1BQ DOebirPKIHQRaqOG0-AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAAA= _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Mon Dec 7 08:54:10 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:54:10 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA Challenges 350 Rocketeers Nationwide to Aim AMile High In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DC93@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Hey all, This press release by NASA is about the program that my students are doing this year. Yes, we in the northwest have 11 of the 350 mentioned in the article! If you want to read up about it a little bit, visit the "Scholastic and Community Outreach" page on the Northwest Rocketry website. Or...if you're feeling lazy, just click on this link: http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=1561 The students have a very rudimentary website up (it is linked in the article above, or if you're feeling REALLY lazy you can just click on THIS link: www.ingrahamrocketry.org/sli.html) While the University SLI is a competition, the High/Middle school SLI program is more about the experience of going through the design process than it is about the rocket or the payload. (That is not to say that we don't want our rocket and payload to kick everybody else's butt!) Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Simpsonclark at aol.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:47 AM To: cary4 at juno.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] NASA Challenges 350 Rocketeers Nationwide to Aim AMile High The only challenge to that is to come up with a meaningful science experiment; now that's hard to do. -Robert In a message dated 12/6/2009 11:00:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cary4 at juno.com writes: -- NASA Challenges 350 Rocketeers Nationwide to Aim A Mile High http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=29749 "NASA has invited more than 350 student rocketeers from middle schools, high schools, colleges and universities -- 37 teams nationwide -- to take part in the 2009-2010 NASA Student Launch Projects. Their challenge is to build powerful rockets of their own design, complete with a working science payload, and launch them to an altitude of 1 mile." ____________________________________________________________ Love Spell Click here to light up your life with a love spell! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=Ah9O2QtNH3SQdGgjoB3ZzwAAJ1 C1BQ DOebirPKIHQRaqOG0-AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARwAAAAA= _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From mjcunningham1 at comcast.net Mon Dec 7 12:27:49 2009 From: mjcunningham1 at comcast.net (mjcunningham1 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:27:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] VSS Enterprise In-Reply-To: <1676103873.11004171260217529515.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <712783925.11005451260217669917.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Virgin Galactic Unveils SpaceShipTwo: http://spacefellowship.com/2009/12/07/virgin-galactic-unveils-spaceshiptwo/ From sb at berfield.com Mon Dec 7 12:38:09 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:38:09 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] VSS Enterprise In-Reply-To: <712783925.11005451260217669917.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1676103873.11004171260217529515.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <712783925.11005451260217669917.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <007501ca777d$30a0c3a0$91e24ae0$@com> I would SOOO go if I could afford it. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of mjcunningham1 at comcast.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:28 PM To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] VSS Enterprise Virgin Galactic Unveils SpaceShipTwo: http://spacefellowship.com/2009/12/07/virgin-galactic-unveils-spaceshiptwo/ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rnech at yahoo.com Mon Dec 7 12:50:20 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:50:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VSS Enterprise In-Reply-To: <712783925.11005451260217669917.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <677603.42684.qm@web111404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It's been a long road, Gettin from there to here. It's been a long time, But my time is finally here. And I will see my dreams come alive at last, I will touch the sky. And they're not gonna hold me down no more, No they're not gonna change my mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLAPhvg1m0I --- On Mon, 12/7/09, mjcunningham1 at comcast.net wrote: > From: mjcunningham1 at comcast.net > Subject: [RocketsNW] VSS Enterprise > To: Rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Monday, December 7, 2009, 12:27 PM > Virgin Galactic Unveils SpaceShipTwo: > > > > http://spacefellowship.com/2009/12/07/virgin-galactic-unveils-spaceshiptwo/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Mon Dec 7 13:16:05 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:16:05 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Frost & Fire II - 60 Acres Launch - Dec 20th In-Reply-To: <000b01ca76bf$f2cdb8c0$d8692a40$@com> References: <6bc920e40912052302i1ab90f74kf54f238e69f7fb77@mail.gmail.com> <000b01ca76bf$f2cdb8c0$d8692a40$@com> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DC9A@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> The Ingraham H.S. SLI squad plans to be there with their ~1/2 scale model of their proposed vehicle. (Their prototype is a 54mm diameter scale model of their 4" diameter design--only without the science package.) If the last of the parts gets in in a timely manner and they can get everything put together in time, then they will be ready to fly it to around 2k feet on a G motor with dual deploy. (Hey...it's still class I--barely--so it's legal...) Should be a lot of fun to watch the kids fly!!! Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Scott Berfield Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:04 PM To: 'Dave Randall'; 'Rockets NW list' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Frost & Fire II - 60 Acres Launch - Dec 20th Barring several feet of snow, I'll be there -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 11:03 PM To: Rockets NW list Subject: [RocketsNW] Frost & Fire II - 60 Acres Launch - Dec 20th Folks, Mark your calendars! Sunday the 20th is the Second Annual Frost and Fire launch at 60 Acres in Redmdond! GSE (ground support equipment) will be available - controller, launch rods and a rail. Weather permitting, the launch will be from 11 am - 4 pm. This site supports Class 1 rockets. More site info here: http://www.rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rnech at yahoo.com Mon Dec 7 17:06:47 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:06:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] SpaceX Falcon 9 Launch Update Message-ID: <647772.37367.qm@web111415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0911/26musk/ SpaceX founder weighs in on Falcon 9 launch readiness Posted: November 26, 2009 (excerpt) Elon Musk, SpaceX's founder and chief executive, provided an update on Falcon 9 launch preparations at Cape Canaveral Wednesday and set odds for success on the low-cost booster's maiden flight early next year. Hardware for the Falcon 9 rocket is again streaming into the Cape, Musk said in an interview Wednesday. The launcher's first stage, nine main engines, interstage, payload adapter and stripped down Dragon spacecraft have already arrived at the company's launch pad. The Falcon 9's second stage is finishing up testing in Texas before being shipped to Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral, according to Elon Musk, founder and CEO of Space Exploration Technologies Corp. A static hotfire test of the first stage, lasting between 3 and 5 seconds, is planned for late January or early February. If that milestone goes well, launch could follow soon thereafter. If the inaugural Falcon 9 mission goes smoothly, SpaceX hopes to follow it up with another Dragon flight, this time outfitted with guidance, propulsion, re-entry and recovery systems. Two more Dragon demo missions are slated for later in 2010, first to test rendezvous systems, and then to fly to the space station for capture and berthing by the complex's robot arm. Another good article about SpaceX date 4DEC09. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/COMMERCIAL120409.xml&headline=Commercial%20ISS%20Transport%20Taking%20Shape&channel=awst From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 7 17:08:26 2009 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:08:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging Steve C Message-ID: <13520.82125.qm@web110204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Steve can you contact me off list. I need to pick your brain on something. John Hornsby From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Mon Dec 7 18:26:37 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:26:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] VSS Enterprise In-Reply-To: <712783925.11005451260217669917.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.ma il.comcast.net> References: <712783925.11005451260217669917.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <5b7cafdefcfb4d946a07d2a937fbe2ed.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Oh great...Dalmatian spaceships! ;-) Decades ago whenever I thought about the first privately owned and operated spaceship it never looked anything like this! I still want my own "Spaceman Spiff" model. +McG+ > Virgin Galactic Unveils SpaceShipTwo: > > > http://spacefellowship.com/2009/12/07/virgin-galactic-unveils-spaceshiptwo/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 18:37:47 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:37:47 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] VSS Enterprise References: <712783925.11005451260217669917.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <5b7cafdefcfb4d946a07d2a937fbe2ed.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <228100B5EF104DC6A42AB70F6E1325D3@LaptopKrausert> "Lucky. Get down. Lucky! Mom, Lucky won't get down. " For those with kids in the family, a laugh. In our home this movie was watched some 43 trillion times. Or felt that way. Send out the Twilight Bark!!! Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] VSS Enterprise > Oh great...Dalmatian spaceships! ;-) > > Decades ago whenever I thought about the first privately owned and > operated spaceship it never looked anything like this! > > I still want my own "Spaceman Spiff" model. > +McG+ > > >> Virgin Galactic Unveils SpaceShipTwo: >> >> >> http://spacefellowship.com/2009/12/07/virgin-galactic-unveils-spaceshiptwo/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From mkquinn at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 18:42:12 2009 From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:42:12 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Space Beer Now On Sale! In-Reply-To: <243250.25031.qm@web111408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <243250.25031.qm@web111408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5a1085980912071842y22c680bap4a564c1f07c873d4@mail.gmail.com> I was all ready to buy until I read this part:: "Purchase will be limited to applicants living in Japan and aged 20 or older." AAARRRGGG! On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Robert Nech wrote: > http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=29748 > > (excerpt) > Tokyo, Dec 3, 2009 (Sapporo Breweries Ltd. (PINK:SOOBF)(Head Office: Tokyo; > President Masaru Fukunaga) is launching sales of the world's first beer > produced using malt made 100% from "space barley," the progenies of > spaceflight barley seeds, This limited offer is exclusive to the Internet > and proceeds will go to charity. Applications to purchase the beer, which is > dubbed "SAPPORO Space Barley," can be made from December 3 (Thu), 2009 on > the dedicated web page set up on our company's website. Two hundred and > fifty successful customers will be selected from among the applicants by > lottery. > > The "space barley" used to make this beer is the fourth generation > descendant of the Haruna Nijo malting barley that was developed by Sapporo > Breweries and kept in space for five months during 2006 as part of our > collaborative research with the Russian Academy of Sciences and Okayama > University with the purpose of achieving self-sufficiency in food in the > space environment. Since Sapporo Breweries was founded, we have continued to > create excellent varieties for raw materials, and we are the only company in > the world that operates breeding/research organizations for both barley and > hops. This, the world's first sale of this "space beer," is the result of > our extended nurturing/development of the required technologies. > > 6. Quantity: Limited to 250 boxes (Purchase limited to one box per person) > > 7. Price: 10,000 yen per box (including shipping and tax) * This beer will > be sold for charity, to contribute to the promotion of science education for > children and the development of space science research in Japan and Russia, > through donation of all proceeds to Okayama University. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 18:44:53 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:44:53 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Space Beer Now On Sale! References: <243250.25031.qm@web111408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <5a1085980912071842y22c680bap4a564c1f07c873d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That's ok Mark. Just a couple more years, and you'll be old enough. ;-) Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Quinn" To: "Robert Nech" Cc: "NW Rocketry" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Space Beer Now On Sale! >I was all ready to buy until I read this part:: > > "Purchase will be limited to applicants living in Japan and aged 20 or > older." > > AAARRRGGG! > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Robert Nech wrote: > >> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=29748 >> >> (excerpt) >> Tokyo, Dec 3, 2009 (Sapporo Breweries Ltd. (PINK:SOOBF)(Head Office: >> Tokyo; >> President Masaru Fukunaga) is launching sales of the world's first beer >> produced using malt made 100% from "space barley," the progenies of >> spaceflight barley seeds, This limited offer is exclusive to the Internet >> and proceeds will go to charity. Applications to purchase the beer, which >> is >> dubbed "SAPPORO Space Barley," can be made from December 3 (Thu), 2009 on >> the dedicated web page set up on our company's website. Two hundred and >> fifty successful customers will be selected from among the applicants by >> lottery. >> >> The "space barley" used to make this beer is the fourth generation >> descendant of the Haruna Nijo malting barley that was developed by >> Sapporo >> Breweries and kept in space for five months during 2006 as part of our >> collaborative research with the Russian Academy of Sciences and Okayama >> University with the purpose of achieving self-sufficiency in food in the >> space environment. Since Sapporo Breweries was founded, we have continued >> to >> create excellent varieties for raw materials, and we are the only company >> in >> the world that operates breeding/research organizations for both barley >> and >> hops. This, the world's first sale of this "space beer," is the result of >> our extended nurturing/development of the required technologies. >> >> 6. Quantity: Limited to 250 boxes (Purchase limited to one box per >> person) >> >> 7. Price: 10,000 yen per box (including shipping and tax) * This beer >> will >> be sold for charity, to contribute to the promotion of science education >> for >> children and the development of space science research in Japan and >> Russia, >> through donation of all proceeds to Okayama University. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From appusher at q.com Mon Dec 7 18:47:40 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 02:47:40 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] VSS Enterprise In-Reply-To: <5b7cafdefcfb4d946a07d2a937fbe2ed.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <712783925.11005451260217669917.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>, <5b7cafdefcfb4d946a07d2a937fbe2ed.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: It sure is a pretty aircraft.......or is it spacecraft or both? Looking for that winning lotto so I can take a trip in it. Bill > Virgin Galactic Unveils SpaceShipTwo: > > > http://spacefellowship.com/2009/12/07/virgin-galactic-unveils-spaceshiptwo/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rnech at yahoo.com Tue Dec 8 18:49:18 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 18:49:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] India to test world's third largest solid rocket booster Message-ID: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/sci-tech/india-to-test-worlds-third-largest-solid-rocket-booster_100285103.html From rnech at yahoo.com Tue Dec 8 18:58:45 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 18:58:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] After Moon, India aims for Mars Message-ID: <624223.85537.qm@web111405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_after-moon-india-aims-for-mars_1320561 From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Dec 8 19:32:30 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 19:32:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE In-Reply-To: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <28a979919e64ae9e487e0a2aab8087b9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-friendly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of toothpaste before casting, frozen at -30 degrees C. Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze up a batch...at least it feels that cold! Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder tonight. Currently at 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark county. +McG+ From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Dec 8 21:17:35 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 21:17:35 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Annual Meeting Jan 7th Message-ID: <9315D725CA5F42FE90D93EF705E3C978@LaptopKrausert> The OregonRocketry club Annual Meeting will be 7:30pm at Giovanni's on Jaunary 7th, 2010. Please make an attempt to attend. Club will buying the pizza. I'm planning this to be a fun meeting. Agenda? Shemedga... We'll be gathering for fun. Official details will be coming. BoD members try to arrive by 6:30pm. Again. The annual meeting is January 7th at 7:30pm. Mail your membership and ballots by January 4th. Cheers, Robert (that '09 guy you elected) From matjamison at aol.com Tue Dec 8 21:23:05 2009 From: matjamison at aol.com (matjamison at aol.com) Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 00:23:05 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] One sweet looking rocket!! Message-ID: <8CC46A6D234D1C7-39CC-1AB8E@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDe&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3A07cb7b21-b458-44d9-a667-7058f48fad30 Would be an awesome build... . . . From arrsales at cox.net Wed Dec 9 03:14:20 2009 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 06:14:20 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE In-Reply-To: <28a979919e64ae9e487e0a2aab8087b9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <28a979919e64ae9e487e0a2aab8087b9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <9ABA971EB68F45228FDF4DE52A43C8B4@apcp.local> ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the house at 9pm and it's 72 degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could do without the humid.. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM To: NW Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of toothpaste before casting, frozen at -30 degrees C. Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze up a batch...at least it feels that cold! Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder tonight. Currently at 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark county. +McG+ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rod at whippetfield.com Wed Dec 9 09:28:15 2009 From: rod at whippetfield.com (Rod) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 09:28:15 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) References: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><28a979919e64ae9e487e0a2aab8087b9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <9ABA971EB68F45228FDF4DE52A43C8B4@apcp.local> Message-ID: <07ACD5837AC24DE4A37C4BF22AE7672C@DANE> Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little plastic thermometer outside our kitchen window read -17 degrees this morning and -15 yesterday here outside of Sisters OR. Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op were without power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the pipes freezing. I imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the houses 'til next Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than 30 hours later all but about 10% of power customers are back on. Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go camp out and prep a rocket? Rod Moorehead ----- Original Message ----- From: Always Ready Rocketry To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the house at 9pm and it's 72 degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could do without the humid.. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM To: NW Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of toothpaste before casting, frozen at -30 degrees C. Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze up a batch...at least it feels that cold! Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder tonight. Currently at 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark county. +McG+ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winningstad at comcast.net Wed Dec 9 09:34:13 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 09:34:13 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: <07ACD5837AC24DE4A37C4BF22AE7672C@DANE> References: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><28a979919e64ae9e487e0a2aab8087b9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <9ABA971EB68F45228FDF4DE52A43C8B4@apcp.local> <07ACD5837AC24DE4A37C4BF22AE7672C@DANE> Message-ID: <008101ca78f5$d382dd50$7a8897f0$@net> OMG! Thank goodness for Global Warming!!! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Rod Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:28 AM To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little plastic thermometer outside our kitchen window read -17 degrees this morning and -15 yesterday here outside of Sisters OR. Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op were without power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the pipes freezing. I imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the houses 'til next Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than 30 hours later all but about 10% of power customers are back on. Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go camp out and prep a rocket? Rod Moorehead ----- Original Message ----- From: Always Ready Rocketry To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the house at 9pm and it's 72 degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could do without the humid.. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM To: NW Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of toothpaste before casting, frozen at -30 degrees C. Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze up a batch...at least it feels that cold! Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder tonight. Currently at 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark county. +McG+ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jaydee_007 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 9 09:37:56 2009 From: jaydee_007 at hotmail.com (JJ Doyle) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 09:37:56 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: <008101ca78f5$d382dd50$7a8897f0$@net> References: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><28a979919e64ae9e487e0a2aab8087b9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <9ABA971EB68F45228FDF4DE52A43C8B4@apcp.local><07ACD5837AC24DE4A37C4BF22AE7672C@DANE> <008101ca78f5$d382dd50$7a8897f0$@net> Message-ID: Yes, thank goodness for Global Warming..... Strongest winter storm in 30 years in Iowa and Illinois - 8 Dec 09 Record snowfall in Arizona - More than 4 times previous record! - 8 Dec 09 Flights in Chicago canceled as snow moves in; worst still to come - 8 Dec 09 Record low temperatures in 17 states - 5 Dec 09 Large areas of USA under winter & blizzard warnings - 7 Dec 09 Blizzard warning for Minnesota - 7 Dec 09 Urgent - Blizzard warning - Snowfall in excess of 4 feet expected in Colorado tonight - 7 Dec 09 Ice and snow shut down I-5 shut in California - 7 Dec 09 Expecting two feet of snow in Flagstaff, Arizona -7 Dec 09 Snow and record cold in Sacramento - 6 Dec 09 Potential blizzards in CA, UT, CO, AZ, KS, NE, SD, IA, MN, IL, WI and MI - 6 Dec 09 (Maybe we should tell the would-be tyrants in Copenhagen about this ... as if they really care about the truth) Record low obliterated in Virginia - 6 Dec 09 Earliest snowfall ever in Southwest Louisiana - 5 Dec 09 From: Dennis S Winningstad Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:34 AM To: 'Rod' ; 'Always Ready Rocketry' ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE,Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) OMG! Thank goodness for Global Warming!!! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Rod Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:28 AM To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little plastic thermometer outside our kitchen window read -17 degrees this morning and -15 yesterday here outside of Sisters OR. Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op were without power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the pipes freezing. I imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the houses 'til next Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than 30 hours later all but about 10% of power customers are back on. Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go camp out and prep a rocket? Rod Moorehead ----- Original Message ----- From: Always Ready Rocketry To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the house at 9pm and it's 72 degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could do without the humid.. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM To: NW Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of toothpaste before casting, frozen at -30 degrees C. Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze up a batch...at least it feels that cold! Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder tonight. Currently at 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark county. +McG+ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rnech at yahoo.com Wed Dec 9 09:46:31 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 09:46:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> If this global warming keeps going we are all going to freeze to death! What's the coldest temp you have flown a rocket? Robert --- On Wed, 12/9/09, JJ Doyle wrote: > From: JJ Doyle > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) > To: "Dennis S Winningstad" , "'Rod'" , "'Always Ready Rocketry'" , rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 9:37 AM > Yes, thank goodness for Global > Warming..... > > Strongest winter storm in 30 years in Iowa and Illinois - 8 > Dec 09 > > Record snowfall in Arizona - More than 4 times previous > record! - 8 Dec 09 > > Flights in Chicago canceled as snow moves in; worst still > to come - 8 Dec 09 > > Record low temperatures in 17 states - 5 Dec 09 > > Large areas of USA under winter & blizzard warnings - 7 > Dec 09 > > Blizzard warning for Minnesota - 7 Dec 09 > > Urgent - Blizzard warning - Snowfall in excess of 4 feet > expected in Colorado tonight - 7 Dec 09 > > Ice and snow shut down I-5 shut in California - 7 Dec 09 > > Expecting two feet of snow in Flagstaff, Arizona -7 Dec 09 > > Snow and record cold in Sacramento - 6 Dec 09 > > Potential blizzards in CA, UT, CO, AZ, KS, NE, SD, IA, MN, > IL, WI and MI - 6 Dec 09 > (Maybe we should tell the would-be tyrants in Copenhagen > about this ... > as if they really care about the truth) > > Record low obliterated in Virginia - 6 Dec 09 > > Earliest snowfall ever in Southwest Louisiana - 5 Dec 09 > > > > > From: Dennis S Winningstad > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:34 AM > To: 'Rod' ; 'Always Ready Rocketry' ; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE,Now Cold > Weather Bragging (OT) > > > OMG!? Thank goodness for Global Warming!!! > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Rod > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:28 AM > To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold > Weather Bragging (OT) > > Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little > plastic thermometer > outside our kitchen window read? -17 degrees this > morning and -15 yesterday > here outside of Sisters OR. > Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op > were without > power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the > pipes freezing. I > imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the > houses 'til next > Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than > 30 hours later > all but about 10% of power customers are back on. > > Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go > camp out and prep a > rocket? > > Rod Moorehead > ? ----- Original Message ----- > ? From: Always Ready Rocketry > ? To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > ? Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM > ? Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > ? ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the > house at 9pm and it's 72 > ? degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could > do without the humid.. > > ? -----Original Message----- > ? From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > ? On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > ? Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM > ? To: NW Rocketry > ? Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien > ? dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html > > ? 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of > toothpaste before casting, > ? frozen at -30 degrees C. > > ? Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze > up a batch...at least > ? it feels that cold! > > ? Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder > tonight.? Currently at > ? 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark > county. > ? +McG+ > > ? _______________________________________________ > ? Rockets mailing list > ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com > ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? ? > > ? _______________________________________________ > ? Rockets mailing list > ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com > ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > From winningstad at comcast.net Wed Dec 9 10:58:32 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:58:32 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00b401ca7901$9b07fa80$d117ef80$@net> Coldest temp was +18f in Feb of 1999 (98 - 00 ??) or so at Millican...my VERY first two stage flight...all went well :D Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Nech Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:47 AM To: NW Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) If this global warming keeps going we are all going to freeze to death! What's the coldest temp you have flown a rocket? Robert --- On Wed, 12/9/09, JJ Doyle wrote: > From: JJ Doyle > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) > To: "Dennis S Winningstad" , "'Rod'" , "'Always Ready Rocketry'" , rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 9:37 AM > Yes, thank goodness for Global > Warming..... > > Strongest winter storm in 30 years in Iowa and Illinois - 8 > Dec 09 > > Record snowfall in Arizona - More than 4 times previous > record! - 8 Dec 09 > > Flights in Chicago canceled as snow moves in; worst still > to come - 8 Dec 09 > > Record low temperatures in 17 states - 5 Dec 09 > > Large areas of USA under winter & blizzard warnings - 7 > Dec 09 > > Blizzard warning for Minnesota - 7 Dec 09 > > Urgent - Blizzard warning - Snowfall in excess of 4 feet > expected in Colorado tonight - 7 Dec 09 > > Ice and snow shut down I-5 shut in California - 7 Dec 09 > > Expecting two feet of snow in Flagstaff, Arizona -7 Dec 09 > > Snow and record cold in Sacramento - 6 Dec 09 > > Potential blizzards in CA, UT, CO, AZ, KS, NE, SD, IA, MN, > IL, WI and MI - 6 Dec 09 > (Maybe we should tell the would-be tyrants in Copenhagen > about this ... > as if they really care about the truth) > > Record low obliterated in Virginia - 6 Dec 09 > > Earliest snowfall ever in Southwest Louisiana - 5 Dec 09 > > > > > From: Dennis S Winningstad > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:34 AM > To: 'Rod' ; 'Always Ready Rocketry' ; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE,Now Cold > Weather Bragging (OT) > > > OMG!? Thank goodness for Global Warming!!! > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Rod > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:28 AM > To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold > Weather Bragging (OT) > > Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little > plastic thermometer > outside our kitchen window read? -17 degrees this > morning and -15 yesterday > here outside of Sisters OR. > Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op > were without > power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the > pipes freezing. I > imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the > houses 'til next > Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than > 30 hours later > all but about 10% of power customers are back on. > > Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go > camp out and prep a > rocket? > > Rod Moorehead > ? ----- Original Message ----- > ? From: Always Ready Rocketry > ? To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > ? Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM > ? Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > ? ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the > house at 9pm and it's 72 > ? degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could > do without the humid.. > > ? -----Original Message----- > ? From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > ? On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > ? Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM > ? To: NW Rocketry > ? Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien > ? dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html > > ? 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of > toothpaste before casting, > ? frozen at -30 degrees C. > > ? Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze > up a batch...at least > ? it feels that cold! > > ? Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder > tonight.? Currently at > ? 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark > county. > ? +McG+ > > ? _______________________________________________ > ? Rockets mailing list > ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com > ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? ? > > ? _______________________________________________ > ? Rockets mailing list > ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com > ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From absworld at cet.com Wed Dec 9 10:58:24 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:58:24 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601ca7901$96f160d0$c4d42270$@com> January of 2007 SPARC winter launch. Temp = 12 deg F. Models only. Didn't take long to figure out we wanted to store motors in our pockets and load at the last minute. After issues at BALLS this year with cold (OK cool) temps, I have a whole new outlook (problem) relating to larger motors and avionics bay storage temps and subsequent 'cold soak' time before launch. I've never slept with a loaded rocket before but the concept has been tossed around between brain cells (both of them ;-) Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Nech Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:47 AM To: NW Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) If this global warming keeps going we are all going to freeze to death! What's the coldest temp you have flown a rocket? Robert --- On Wed, 12/9/09, JJ Doyle wrote: > From: JJ Doyle > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) > To: "Dennis S Winningstad" , "'Rod'" , "'Always Ready Rocketry'" , rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 9:37 AM > Yes, thank goodness for Global > Warming..... > > Strongest winter storm in 30 years in Iowa and Illinois - 8 > Dec 09 > > Record snowfall in Arizona - More than 4 times previous > record! - 8 Dec 09 > > Flights in Chicago canceled as snow moves in; worst still > to come - 8 Dec 09 > > Record low temperatures in 17 states - 5 Dec 09 > > Large areas of USA under winter & blizzard warnings - 7 > Dec 09 > > Blizzard warning for Minnesota - 7 Dec 09 > > Urgent - Blizzard warning - Snowfall in excess of 4 feet > expected in Colorado tonight - 7 Dec 09 > > Ice and snow shut down I-5 shut in California - 7 Dec 09 > > Expecting two feet of snow in Flagstaff, Arizona -7 Dec 09 > > Snow and record cold in Sacramento - 6 Dec 09 > > Potential blizzards in CA, UT, CO, AZ, KS, NE, SD, IA, MN, > IL, WI and MI - 6 Dec 09 > (Maybe we should tell the would-be tyrants in Copenhagen > about this ... > as if they really care about the truth) > > Record low obliterated in Virginia - 6 Dec 09 > > Earliest snowfall ever in Southwest Louisiana - 5 Dec 09 > > > > > From: Dennis S Winningstad > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:34 AM > To: 'Rod' ; 'Always Ready Rocketry' ; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE,Now Cold > Weather Bragging (OT) > > > OMG!? Thank goodness for Global Warming!!! > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Rod > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:28 AM > To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold > Weather Bragging (OT) > > Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little > plastic thermometer > outside our kitchen window read? -17 degrees this > morning and -15 yesterday > here outside of Sisters OR. > Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op > were without > power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the > pipes freezing. I > imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the > houses 'til next > Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than > 30 hours later > all but about 10% of power customers are back on. > > Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go > camp out and prep a > rocket? > > Rod Moorehead > ? ----- Original Message ----- > ? From: Always Ready Rocketry > ? To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > ? Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM > ? Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > ? ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the > house at 9pm and it's 72 > ? degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could > do without the humid.. > > ? -----Original Message----- > ? From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > ? On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > ? Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM > ? To: NW Rocketry > ? Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien > ? dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html > > ? 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of > toothpaste before casting, > ? frozen at -30 degrees C. > > ? Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze > up a batch...at least > ? it feels that cold! > > ? Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder > tonight.? Currently at > ? 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark > county. > ? +McG+ > > ? _______________________________________________ > ? Rockets mailing list > ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com > ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? ? > > ? _______________________________________________ > ? Rockets mailing list > ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com > ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winningstad at comcast.net Wed Dec 9 11:01:09 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:01:09 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><28a979919e64ae9e487e0a2aab8087b9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <9ABA971EB68F45228FDF4DE52A43C8B4@apcp.local><07ACD5837AC24DE4A37C4BF22AE7672C@DANE> <008101ca78f5$d382dd50$7a8897f0$@net> Message-ID: <00bc01ca7901$f892d120$e9b87360$@net> MAN! Here locally: http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Snow-flurries-possible-in-this-cold-snap-78444 482.html I wanna launch.I gonna launch one at the Beaverton Veteran's Memorial Park! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 From: JJ Doyle [mailto:jaydee_007 at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:38 AM To: Dennis S Winningstad; 'Rod'; 'Always Ready Rocketry'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE,Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) Yes, thank goodness for Global Warming..... Strongest winter storm in 30 years in Iowa and Illinois - 8 Dec 09 Record snowfall in Arizona - More than 4 times previous record! - 8 Dec 09 Flights in Chicago canceled as snow moves in; worst still to come - 8 Dec 09 Record low temperatures in 17 states - 5 Dec 09 Large areas of USA under winter & blizzard warnings - 7 Dec 09 Blizzard warning for Minnesota - 7 Dec 09 Urgent - Blizzard warning - Snowfall in excess of 4 feet expected in Colorado tonight - 7 Dec 09 Ice and snow shut down I-5 shut in California - 7 Dec 09 Expecting two feet of snow in Flagstaff, Arizona -7 Dec 09 Snow and record cold in Sacramento - 6 Dec 09 Potential blizzards in CA, UT, CO, AZ, KS, NE, SD, IA, MN, IL, WI and MI - 6 Dec 09 (Maybe we should tell the would-be tyrants in Copenhagen about this ... as if they really care about the truth) Record low obliterated in Virginia - 6 Dec 09 Earliest snowfall ever in Southwest Louisiana - 5 Dec 09 From: Dennis S Winningstad Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:34 AM To: 'Rod' ; 'Always Ready Rocketry' ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE,Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) OMG! Thank goodness for Global Warming!!! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Rod Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:28 AM To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little plastic thermometer outside our kitchen window read -17 degrees this morning and -15 yesterday here outside of Sisters OR. Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op were without power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the pipes freezing. I imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the houses 'til next Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than 30 hours later all but about 10% of power customers are back on. Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go camp out and prep a rocket? Rod Moorehead ----- Original Message ----- From: Always Ready Rocketry To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the house at 9pm and it's 72 degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could do without the humid.. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM To: NW Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of toothpaste before casting, frozen at -30 degrees C. Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze up a batch...at least it feels that cold! Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder tonight. Currently at 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark county. +McG+ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winningstad at comcast.net Wed Dec 9 11:04:46 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:04:46 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: <001601ca7901$96f160d0$c4d42270$@com> References: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <001601ca7901$96f160d0$c4d42270$@com> Message-ID: <00d801ca7902$79862390$6c926ab0$@net> Yup...Model motors don't do well when frozen! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob & Ann Yanecek Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:58 AM To: 'Robert Nech'; 'NW Rocketry' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) January of 2007 SPARC winter launch. Temp = 12 deg F. Models only. Didn't take long to figure out we wanted to store motors in our pockets and load at the last minute. After issues at BALLS this year with cold (OK cool) temps, I have a whole new outlook (problem) relating to larger motors and avionics bay storage temps and subsequent 'cold soak' time before launch. I've never slept with a loaded rocket before but the concept has been tossed around between brain cells (both of them ;-) Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Nech Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:47 AM To: NW Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) If this global warming keeps going we are all going to freeze to death! What's the coldest temp you have flown a rocket? Robert --- On Wed, 12/9/09, JJ Doyle wrote: > From: JJ Doyle > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) > To: "Dennis S Winningstad" , "'Rod'" , "'Always Ready Rocketry'" , rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 9:37 AM > Yes, thank goodness for Global > Warming..... > > Strongest winter storm in 30 years in Iowa and Illinois - 8 > Dec 09 > > Record snowfall in Arizona - More than 4 times previous > record! - 8 Dec 09 > > Flights in Chicago canceled as snow moves in; worst still > to come - 8 Dec 09 > > Record low temperatures in 17 states - 5 Dec 09 > > Large areas of USA under winter & blizzard warnings - 7 > Dec 09 > > Blizzard warning for Minnesota - 7 Dec 09 > > Urgent - Blizzard warning - Snowfall in excess of 4 feet > expected in Colorado tonight - 7 Dec 09 > > Ice and snow shut down I-5 shut in California - 7 Dec 09 > > Expecting two feet of snow in Flagstaff, Arizona -7 Dec 09 > > Snow and record cold in Sacramento - 6 Dec 09 > > Potential blizzards in CA, UT, CO, AZ, KS, NE, SD, IA, MN, > IL, WI and MI - 6 Dec 09 > (Maybe we should tell the would-be tyrants in Copenhagen > about this ... > as if they really care about the truth) > > Record low obliterated in Virginia - 6 Dec 09 > > Earliest snowfall ever in Southwest Louisiana - 5 Dec 09 > > > > > From: Dennis S Winningstad > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:34 AM > To: 'Rod' ; 'Always Ready Rocketry' ; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE,Now Cold > Weather Bragging (OT) > > > OMG!? Thank goodness for Global Warming!!! > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Rod > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:28 AM > To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold > Weather Bragging (OT) > > Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little > plastic thermometer > outside our kitchen window read? -17 degrees this > morning and -15 yesterday > here outside of Sisters OR. > Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op > were without > power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the > pipes freezing. I > imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the > houses 'til next > Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than > 30 hours later > all but about 10% of power customers are back on. > > Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go > camp out and prep a > rocket? > > Rod Moorehead > ? ----- Original Message ----- > ? From: Always Ready Rocketry > ? To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > ? Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM > ? Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > ? ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the > house at 9pm and it's 72 > ? degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could > do without the humid.. > > ? -----Original Message----- > ? From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > ? On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > ? Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM > ? To: NW Rocketry > ? Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien > ? dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html > > ? 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of > toothpaste before casting, > ? frozen at -30 degrees C. > > ? Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze > up a batch...at least > ? it feels that cold! > > ? Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder > tonight.? Currently at > ? 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark > county. > ? +McG+ > > ? _______________________________________________ > ? Rockets mailing list > ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com > ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? ? > > ? _______________________________________________ > ? Rockets mailing list > ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com > ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From arrsales at cox.net Wed Dec 9 11:22:13 2009 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 14:22:13 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: <07ACD5837AC24DE4A37C4BF22AE7672C@DANE> References: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><28a979919e64ae9e487e0a2aab8087b9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <9ABA971EB68F45228FDF4DE52A43C8B4@apcp.local> <07ACD5837AC24DE4A37C4BF22AE7672C@DANE> Message-ID: I didn't think living in a climate that made the Ice Planet Hoth look like a Caribbean destination was braggin! LOL I live in Tampa for a reason! Grew up in Chicago.. The Blizzard of '79 was the last year I liked winter. Sucked!! -65 wind chill.. Screw that.. I'll be pondering your plight as I put Christmas decorations on my palm trees. :) Prep your rocket, Launch your rocket ..and may your "recovery Tauntaun" not freeze.. _____ From: Rod [mailto:rod at whippetfield.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 12:28 PM To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little plastic thermometer outside our kitchen window read -17 degrees this morning and -15 yesterday here outside of Sisters OR. Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op were without power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the pipes freezing. I imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the houses 'til next Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than 30 hours later all but about 10% of power customers are back on. Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go camp out and prep a rocket? Rod Moorehead ----- Original Message ----- From: Always Ready Rocketry To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the house at 9pm and it's 72 degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could do without the humid.. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM To: NW Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of toothpaste before casting, frozen at -30 degrees C. Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze up a batch...at least it feels that cold! Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder tonight. Currently at 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark county. +McG+ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From arrsales at cox.net Wed Dec 9 14:39:14 2009 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 17:39:14 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: <924520.82941.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nope, I was in 7th grade trying to deliver newspapers on my bike... LOL -----Original Message----- From: Robert Nech [mailto:rnech at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 5:04 PM To: Always Ready Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) But did you fly a rocket in that weather? LOL! Robert --- On Wed, 12/9/09, Always Ready Rocketry wrote: > From: Always Ready Rocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging > (OT) > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:22 AM > > > I didn't think living in a climate that made the Ice Planet Hoth look > like a Caribbean destination was braggin! LOL? I live in Tampa for a > reason!? Grew up in Chicago.. The Blizzard of '79 was the last year I > liked winter. > Sucked!!? -65 wind chill.. Screw that.. I'll be pondering your plight > as I put Christmas decorations on my palm trees. :) > > > > Prep your rocket, > > Launch your rocket > > ..and may your "recovery Tauntaun" not freeze.. > > > > ? _____? > > From: Rod [mailto:rod at whippetfield.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 12:28 PM > To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging > (OT) > > > > Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little > plastic thermometer > outside our kitchen window read? -17 degrees this > morning and -15 yesterday > here outside of Sisters OR. > > Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op > were without > power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the > pipes freezing. I > imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the > houses 'til next > Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than > 30 hours later > all but about 10% of power customers are back on. > > > > Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go > camp out and prep a > rocket? > > > > Rod Moorehead > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Always Ready Rocketry ? > > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > > ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the house at > 9pm and it's 72 > degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could do > without the humid.. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM > To: NW Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien > dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html > > 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of toothpaste > before casting, > frozen at -30 degrees C. > > Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze up a > batch...at least > it feels that cold! > > Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder > tonight.? Currently at > 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark county. > +McG+ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > From carl at mousetrap.com Wed Dec 9 19:35:16 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:35:16 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC December meeting minutes Message-ID: The minutes for the Washington Aerospace December meeting have been posted on the club's website: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/news0912.php. Of particular note is a *tentative* launch schedule for 2010, including a new launch in March! - Carl From brodwcjj at integrity.com Wed Dec 9 21:28:48 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway Message-ID: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> Seen from Norway: Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night show: http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhggjv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 Or go to http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn Dustin From vincesimoneau at msn.com Wed Dec 9 23:34:18 2009 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:34:18 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <468650.99820.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><28a979919e64ae9e487e0a2aab8087b9.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>, <9ABA971EB68F45228FDF4DE52A43C8B4@apcp.local>, <07ACD5837AC24DE4A37C4BF22AE7672C@DANE>, Message-ID: Kk ...... Dug my rig out 3 times in 1 day with more than a foot each time..last year ..Gotta love Spokane still -2 this morn............. > From: arrsales at cox.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 14:22:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) > > > > I didn't think living in a climate that made the Ice Planet Hoth look like a > Caribbean destination was braggin! LOL I live in Tampa for a reason! Grew > up in Chicago.. The Blizzard of '79 was the last year I liked winter. > Sucked!! -65 wind chill.. Screw that.. I'll be pondering your plight as I > put Christmas decorations on my palm trees. :) > > > > Prep your rocket, > > Launch your rocket > > ..and may your "recovery Tauntaun" not freeze.. > > > > _____ > > From: Rod [mailto:rod at whippetfield.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 12:28 PM > To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) > > > > Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little plastic thermometer > outside our kitchen window read -17 degrees this morning and -15 yesterday > here outside of Sisters OR. > > Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op were without > power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the pipes freezing. I > imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the houses 'til next > Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than 30 hours later > all but about 10% of power customers are back on. > > > > Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go camp out and prep a > rocket? > > > > Rod Moorehead > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Always Ready Rocketry > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > > > ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the house at 9pm and it's 72 > degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could do without the humid.. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM > To: NW Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE > > http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien > dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html > > 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of toothpaste before casting, > frozen at -30 degrees C. > > Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze up a batch...at least > it feels that cold! > > Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder tonight. Currently at > 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark county. > +McG+ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games&scope=cashback&form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1 From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Dec 9 23:43:32 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:43:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I never try to fly rockets when it's cold enough to freeze my tongue to the motor case...or fingers, whatever. And the last couple years I've gotten real tired of sweeping/shoveling all that global warming off my porch in winter. +McG+ > If this global warming keeps going we are all going to freeze to death! > > What's the coldest temp you have flown a rocket? > > Robert > > --- On Wed, 12/9/09, JJ Doyle wrote: > >> From: JJ Doyle >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather >> Bragging (OT) >> To: "Dennis S Winningstad" , "'Rod'" >> , "'Always Ready Rocketry'" , >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 9:37 AM >> Yes, thank goodness for Global >> Warming..... >> >> Strongest winter storm in 30 years in Iowa and Illinois - 8 >> Dec 09 >> >> Record snowfall in Arizona - More than 4 times previous >> record! - 8 Dec 09 >> >> Flights in Chicago canceled as snow moves in; worst still >> to come - 8 Dec 09 >> >> Record low temperatures in 17 states - 5 Dec 09 >> >> Large areas of USA under winter & blizzard warnings - 7 >> Dec 09 >> >> Blizzard warning for Minnesota - 7 Dec 09 >> >> Urgent - Blizzard warning - Snowfall in excess of 4 feet >> expected in Colorado tonight - 7 Dec 09 >> >> Ice and snow shut down I-5 shut in California - 7 Dec 09 >> >> Expecting two feet of snow in Flagstaff, Arizona -7 Dec 09 >> >> Snow and record cold in Sacramento - 6 Dec 09 >> >> Potential blizzards in CA, UT, CO, AZ, KS, NE, SD, IA, MN, >> IL, WI and MI - 6 Dec 09 >> (Maybe we should tell the would-be tyrants in Copenhagen >> about this ... >> as if they really care about the truth) >> >> Record low obliterated in Virginia - 6 Dec 09 >> >> Earliest snowfall ever in Southwest Louisiana - 5 Dec 09 >> >> >> >> >> From: Dennis S Winningstad >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:34 AM >> To: 'Rod' ; 'Always Ready Rocketry' ; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE,Now Cold >> Weather Bragging (OT) >> >> >> OMG!? Thank goodness for Global Warming!!! >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> 503-781-3529 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Rod >> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:28 AM >> To: Always Ready Rocketry; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold >> Weather Bragging (OT) >> >> Don't want to start a bragging contest but the little >> plastic thermometer >> outside our kitchen window read? -17 degrees this >> morning and -15 yesterday >> here outside of Sisters OR. >> Yesterday about 3000 customers of the local electric co-op >> were without >> power for at least 14 hours. You could almost hear the >> pipes freezing. I >> imagine the plumbers won't be coming out from under the >> houses 'til next >> Spring! (fortunately we had power) This morning, more than >> 30 hours later >> all but about 10% of power customers are back on. >> >> Brothers is reporting similar temps. , anyone want to go >> camp out and prep a >> rocket? >> >> Rod Moorehead >> ? ----- Original Message ----- >> ? From: Always Ready Rocketry >> ? To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> ? Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:14 AM >> ? Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE >> >> >> ? ..and here I am putting Christmas lights on the >> house at 9pm and it's 72 >> ? degrees and humid. The 72 part is nice but I could >> do without the humid.. >> >> ? -----Original Message----- >> ? From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> ? On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> ? Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 PM >> ? To: NW Rocketry >> ? Subject: [RocketsNW] More info on ALICE >> >> >> http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/nasa-successfully-tests-eco-frien >> ? dly-rocket-propellant_100236279.html >> >> ? 80 nm aluminum particle size and consistency of >> toothpaste before casting, >> ? frozen at -30 degrees C. >> >> ? Hmmm, right now I could just step outside and freeze >> up a batch...at least >> ? it feels that cold! >> >> ? Last night was 8 deg F, should be a few deg colder >> tonight.? Currently at >> ? 14 here in the frozen wasteland of north Clark >> county. >> ? +McG+ >> >> ? _______________________________________________ >> ? Rockets mailing list >> ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> ? ? >> >> ? _______________________________________________ >> ? Rockets mailing list >> ? Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> ? http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> ? ? >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> ? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> ? >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> ? >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From vincesimoneau at msn.com Wed Dec 9 23:43:49 2009 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:43:49 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: Jan Petter, von gutten . . . bad roc sim... > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 > From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Seen from Norway: > Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night show: > > http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhggjv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 > > Or go to > http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn > > Dustin > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/videos-tours.aspx?h=7sec&slideid=1&media=aero-shake-7second&listid=1&stop=1&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_7secdemo:122009 From appusher at q.com Wed Dec 9 23:53:04 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:53:04 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! Interesting picture. > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 > From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Seen from Norway: > Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night show: > > http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhggjv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 > > Or go to > http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn > > Dustin > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From billn at peak.org Thu Dec 10 01:30:21 2009 From: billn at peak.org (Bill Nelson) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:30:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <302428fdfe65146a3b9734f1004517e6.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> > And the last couple years I've gotten real tired of sweeping/shoveling > all that global warming off my porch in winter. The temperatures are not records for most of Oregon. For Salem on Dec 8th, the low was 14 deg F. The record for the date is -12 deg F in 1972. Portland, Astoria and Seaside broke the 1972 record by one to three degrees. Bill From brodwcjj at integrity.com Thu Dec 10 12:29:18 2009 From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:29:18 -0600 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a true outward spiral. Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? > > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! > > > > Interesting picture. > > > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >> >> Seen from Norway: >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night >> show: >> >> http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhggjv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 >> >> Or go to >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn >> >> Dustin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > From winningstad at comcast.net Thu Dec 10 13:35:48 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:35:48 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> Message-ID: <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a true outward spiral. Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? > > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! > > > > Interesting picture. > > > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >> >> Seen from Norway: >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night >> show: >> >> http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 >> >> Or go to >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn >> >> Dustin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Thu Dec 10 13:43:03 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:43:03 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace 2010 elections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We are still looking for people interested in running for Washington Aerospace board positions for 2010. Mike Wyvel has decided to step down as operations/equipment manager and Bryan Whitemarsh has graciously volunteered to run for the position. If you have any interest in shaping the club's future, now is the time to step up. Thanks. - Carl On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > It's that time again; the Northwest flying season has come to an end, > people are starting their winter projects, and the new year is just around > the corner. That means it's also time for the Washington Aerospace Club to > elect its board of directors for 2010. The positions are president (Kent > Newman), secretary/treasurer (Carl Hamilton), and operations manager (Mike > Wyvel). > > If you are member in good standing and would like to contribute to the > club's future as a board member, please let me know what position you are > interested in. If you have any questions about the different positions, > please feel free to ask me, Kent Newman, or Mike Wyvel. Kent's and Mike's > email addresses are on the "cc" line of this message for your reference. > > We will be holding elections this month, so please let me know soon if you > are interested. > > Thanks a lot. > > - Carl > > From robert.krausert at intel.com Thu Dec 10 13:49:20 2009 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:49:20 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Photoshop indeed. That's so bogus. I realize it's scary to consider. But not everything on Al Gore's Internets are real. Cool image though. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:36 PM To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; 'Bill Munds'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a true outward spiral. Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? > > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! > > > > Interesting picture. > > > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >> >> Seen from Norway: >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night >> show: >> >> http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 >> >> Or go to >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn >> >> Dustin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Thu Dec 10 14:12:05 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:12:05 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>, , <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>, <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net>, <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: I wondered about that. But there is a home video on The Scottish Sun that shows the 'strange light' in the sky over Norway. http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2764647/Spiral-UFO-puts-Norway-in-a-spin.html Who knows? Al could have a conspirator that fakes home movies as well. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: robert.krausert at intel.com > To: winningstad at comcast.net; brodwcjj at integrity.com; appusher at q.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:49:20 -0800 > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Photoshop indeed. That's so bogus. > > I realize it's scary to consider. But not everything on Al Gore's Internets are real. > > Cool image though. > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:36 PM > To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; 'Bill Munds'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM > To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a > true outward spiral. > Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? > > > > > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! > > > > > > > > Interesting picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 > >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > >> > >> Seen from Norway: > >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night > >> show: > >> > >> > http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg > jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 > >> > >> Or go to > >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn > >> > >> Dustin > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bigredbee at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 14:12:48 2009 From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:12:48 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: Not so fast..... >From space.com: "A spectacular spiral light show in the sky above Norway Wednesday was caused by a Russian missile that failed just after launch, according to Russia's defense ministry." Who to believe ???? Greg On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Krausert, Robert wrote: > Photoshop indeed. That's so bogus. > > I realize it's scary to consider. But not everything on Al Gore's Internets > are real. > > Cool image though. > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:36 PM > To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; 'Bill Munds'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM > To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a > true outward spiral. > Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? > > > > > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! > > > > > > > > Interesting picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 > >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > >> > >> Seen from Norway: > >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night > >> show: > >> > >> > > http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg > jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 > >> > >> Or go to > >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn > >> > >> Dustin > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Dec 10 19:19:56 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:19:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: <302428fdfe65146a3b9734f1004517e6.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> References: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <302428fdfe65146a3b9734f1004517e6.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> Message-ID: Yup, it's cold but not shockingly so. Somewhere in one of my mother's photo albums is a picture of two men standing next to their 1920's vintage auto......*on* the Columbia river at Vancouver, frozen over solid thick enough to drive across. Hasn't been that cold for that long since then around here. Thankfully! But if it did, I think I'd violate my own policy about going out on ice and go launch rockets in the middle of the Columbia down by Woodland. And take pictures for future generations. :) +McG+ >> And the last couple years I've gotten real tired of sweeping/shoveling >> all that global warming off my porch in winter. > > The temperatures are not records for most of Oregon. > > For Salem on Dec 8th, the low was 14 deg F. The record for the date is > -12 deg F in 1972. Portland, Astoria and Seaside broke the 1972 record > by one to three degrees. > > Bill > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 19:36:47 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:36:47 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) References: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><302428fdfe65146a3b9734f1004517e6.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> Message-ID: I'd join you on the Columbia frozen for some rocket flying. But I'm a heavy one, so the ice would need to be *really* thick to support me. A nice Azinger sparky N from the ice would be cool as well. While this all sounds fun, I'm ready for Spring. The snow tomorrow is better than this 20 degree garage. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Bill Nelson" Cc: "NW Rocketry" Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) > Yup, it's cold but not shockingly so. Somewhere in one of my mother's > photo albums is a picture of two men standing next to their 1920's vintage > auto......*on* the Columbia river at Vancouver, frozen over solid thick > enough to drive across. > > Hasn't been that cold for that long since then around here. Thankfully! > > But if it did, I think I'd violate my own policy about going out on ice > and go launch rockets in the middle of the Columbia down by Woodland. And > take pictures for future generations. :) > +McG+ > > >>> And the last couple years I've gotten real tired of sweeping/shoveling >>> all that global warming off my porch in winter. >> >> The temperatures are not records for most of Oregon. >> >> For Salem on Dec 8th, the low was 14 deg F. The record for the date is >> -12 deg F in 1972. Portland, Astoria and Seaside broke the 1972 record >> by one to three degrees. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Dec 10 19:41:33 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:41:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <1e3b9e78365c061c1af139620674a7ef.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> The tv news tonight showed a brief video showing a bright bluish central light source clearly throwing off a spiraling blue jet. Looks for all the world like a rocket undergoing coning, seen from the rear. But.... What propellant for large military rockets exhibits a bright blue flame? And, the spiral was large enough to be clearly visible. How many arc-minutes did this object cover in the sky, and how far away from the camera was it? IOW, does the apparent size agree with what would be expected for the exhaust from an ICBM experiencing coning? And also, the still image shows the spiral pattern extends outward many turns. This would indicate that the event occurred at fairly high altitude since in dense atmosphere the spiral pattern would be constrained in overall radius. And the spiral rings are very concentric, which would mean the rocket was maintaining an overall path directly away from the camera. Which goes back to the questions above: Is the evidence actually consistent with the explanation? Maybe. I dunno. Probably was a Russian rocket. But was it a failure, or an experiment? Sort of reminds me of one Fourth out launching skyrockets. "Darn, that one blew up too! (wink)" :) +McG+ > Not so fast..... > >>From space.com: "A spectacular spiral light show in the sky above Norway > Wednesday was caused by a Russian missile that failed just after launch, > according to Russia's defense ministry." > > Who to believe ???? > > Greg > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Krausert, Robert > > wrote: > >> Photoshop indeed. That's so bogus. >> >> I realize it's scary to consider. But not everything on Al Gore's >> Internets >> are real. >> >> Cool image though. >> Cheers, >> Robert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:36 PM >> To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; 'Bill Munds'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >> >> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> 503-781-3529 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM >> To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >> >> I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a >> true outward spiral. >> Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? >> >> > >> > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! >> > >> > >> > >> > Interesting picture. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 >> >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com >> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >> >> >> >> Seen from Norway: >> >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night >> >> show: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg >> jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 >> >> >> >> Or go to >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn >> >> >> >> Dustin >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From billn at peak.org Thu Dec 10 20:11:10 2009 From: billn at peak.org (Bill Nelson) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:11:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: <1e3b9e78365c061c1af139620674a7ef.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <1e3b9e78365c061c1af139620674a7ef.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: > And also, the still image shows the spiral pattern extends outward > many > turns. This would indicate that the event occurred at fairly high > altitude since in dense atmosphere the spiral pattern would be > constrained > in overall radius. And the spiral rings are very concentric, which > would > mean the rocket was maintaining an overall path directly away from the > camera. Which goes back to the questions above: Is the evidence > actually consistent with the explanation? I am almost certain that first pretty picture is just creative Photoshop work. I have not found any other pictures that even vaguely resemble it. There are too many inconsistencies, some of which you mentioned, for it to be real. Bill From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 20:13:36 2009 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:13:36 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <302428fdfe65146a3b9734f1004517e6.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> Message-ID: If the Columbia freezes over I will join you with a couple of rockets to launch on G sized motors. I think that would be awesome. Chris Guenther On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > I'd join you on the Columbia frozen for some rocket flying. But I'm a heavy > one, so the ice would need to be *really* thick to support me. A nice > Azinger sparky N from the ice would be cool as well. > > While this all sounds fun, I'm ready for Spring. The snow tomorrow is > better than this 20 degree garage. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "Bill Nelson" > Cc: "NW Rocketry" > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:19 PM > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging > (OT) > > > Yup, it's cold but not shockingly so. Somewhere in one of my mother's >> photo albums is a picture of two men standing next to their 1920's vintage >> auto......*on* the Columbia river at Vancouver, frozen over solid thick >> enough to drive across. >> >> Hasn't been that cold for that long since then around here. Thankfully! >> >> But if it did, I think I'd violate my own policy about going out on ice >> and go launch rockets in the middle of the Columbia down by Woodland. And >> take pictures for future generations. :) >> +McG+ >> >> >> And the last couple years I've gotten real tired of sweeping/shoveling >>>> all that global warming off my porch in winter. >>>> >>> >>> The temperatures are not records for most of Oregon. >>> >>> For Salem on Dec 8th, the low was 14 deg F. The record for the date is >>> -12 deg F in 1972. Portland, Astoria and Seaside broke the 1972 record >>> by one to three degrees. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 20:20:12 2009 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:20:12 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <1e3b9e78365c061c1af139620674a7ef.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: OK. After both watching the video and looking at the picture I am positive that the picture may not be Photoshoped except for touch up on clarity. It looks to me like the camera was set on Time Lapse just like those cool night traffic photo's that have the streaking head and tail lights. On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Bill Nelson wrote: > > And also, the still image shows the spiral pattern extends outward > > many > > turns. This would indicate that the event occurred at fairly high > > altitude since in dense atmosphere the spiral pattern would be > > constrained > > in overall radius. And the spiral rings are very concentric, which > > would > > mean the rocket was maintaining an overall path directly away from the > > camera. Which goes back to the questions above: Is the evidence > > actually consistent with the explanation? > > I am almost certain that first pretty picture is just creative > Photoshop work. I have not found any other pictures that even vaguely > resemble it. > > There are too many inconsistencies, some of which you mentioned, for > it to be real. > > Bill > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 20:33:23 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:33:23 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com><89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com><02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com><1e3b9e78365c061c1af139620674a7ef.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <73DFE6C9AB7A4F8BA4A927E370589E0D@LaptopKrausert> It's bogus. Notice the ground structures. Nah, didn't happen. Did the Russian missile go wrong? Sure. But didn't look this way. I always have my camera out on time lapse photography at just this time each night. To catch the complete visible stride. Bogus!! Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Guenther" To: "Bill Nelson" Cc: Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > OK. After both watching the video and looking at the picture I am > positive > that the picture may not be Photoshoped except for touch up on clarity. > It > looks to me like the camera was set on Time Lapse just like those cool > night > traffic photo's that have the streaking head and tail lights. > > > > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Bill Nelson wrote: > >> > And also, the still image shows the spiral pattern extends outward >> > many >> > turns. This would indicate that the event occurred at fairly high >> > altitude since in dense atmosphere the spiral pattern would be >> > constrained >> > in overall radius. And the spiral rings are very concentric, which >> > would >> > mean the rocket was maintaining an overall path directly away from the >> > camera. Which goes back to the questions above: Is the evidence >> > actually consistent with the explanation? >> >> I am almost certain that first pretty picture is just creative >> Photoshop work. I have not found any other pictures that even vaguely >> resemble it. >> >> There are too many inconsistencies, some of which you mentioned, for >> it to be real. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From fred at azinger.com Thu Dec 10 21:15:09 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:15:09 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: <1e3b9e78365c061c1af139620674a7ef.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <1e3b9e78365c061c1af139620674a7ef.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <00f101ca7a20$e95081b0$bbf18510$@com> I think they put the launch lugs on off-axis..... THE GAMBLER EFFECT! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:42 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway The tv news tonight showed a brief video showing a bright bluish central light source clearly throwing off a spiraling blue jet. Looks for all the world like a rocket undergoing coning, seen from the rear. But.... What propellant for large military rockets exhibits a bright blue flame? And, the spiral was large enough to be clearly visible. How many arc-minutes did this object cover in the sky, and how far away from the camera was it? IOW, does the apparent size agree with what would be expected for the exhaust from an ICBM experiencing coning? And also, the still image shows the spiral pattern extends outward many turns. This would indicate that the event occurred at fairly high altitude since in dense atmosphere the spiral pattern would be constrained in overall radius. And the spiral rings are very concentric, which would mean the rocket was maintaining an overall path directly away from the camera. Which goes back to the questions above: Is the evidence actually consistent with the explanation? Maybe. I dunno. Probably was a Russian rocket. But was it a failure, or an experiment? Sort of reminds me of one Fourth out launching skyrockets. "Darn, that one blew up too! (wink)" :) +McG+ > Not so fast..... > >>From space.com: "A spectacular spiral light show in the sky above Norway > Wednesday was caused by a Russian missile that failed just after launch, > according to Russia's defense ministry." > > Who to believe ???? > > Greg > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Krausert, Robert > > wrote: > >> Photoshop indeed. That's so bogus. >> >> I realize it's scary to consider. But not everything on Al Gore's >> Internets >> are real. >> >> Cool image though. >> Cheers, >> Robert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:36 PM >> To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; 'Bill Munds'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >> >> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> 503-781-3529 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM >> To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >> >> I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a >> true outward spiral. >> Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? >> >> > >> > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! >> > >> > >> > >> > Interesting picture. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 >> >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com >> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >> >> >> >> Seen from Norway: >> >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night >> >> show: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg >> jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 >> >> >> >> Or go to >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn >> >> >> >> Dustin >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockets mailing list >> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Dec 10 21:24:20 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:24:20 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <1e3b9e78365c061c1af139620674a7ef.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <00f101ca7a20$e95081b0$bbf18510$@com> Message-ID: Bet they glass Quantum tubing too. oops. I've done that. Still bogus. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Azinger" To: ; Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >I think they put the launch lugs on off-axis..... > THE GAMBLER EFFECT! > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:42 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > The tv news tonight showed a brief video showing a bright bluish central > light source clearly throwing off a spiraling blue jet. Looks for all the > world like a rocket undergoing coning, seen from the rear. But.... > > What propellant for large military rockets exhibits a bright blue flame? > And, the spiral was large enough to be clearly visible. How many > arc-minutes did this object cover in the sky, and how far away from the > camera was it? IOW, does the apparent size agree with what would be > expected for the exhaust from an ICBM experiencing coning? > > And also, the still image shows the spiral pattern extends outward many > turns. This would indicate that the event occurred at fairly high > altitude since in dense atmosphere the spiral pattern would be constrained > in overall radius. And the spiral rings are very concentric, which would > mean the rocket was maintaining an overall path directly away from the > camera. Which goes back to the questions above: Is the evidence actually > consistent with the explanation? > > Maybe. I dunno. Probably was a Russian rocket. But was it a failure, or > an experiment? > > Sort of reminds me of one Fourth out launching skyrockets. "Darn, that > one blew up too! (wink)" :) > +McG+ > > >> Not so fast..... >> >>>From space.com: "A spectacular spiral light show in the sky above Norway >> Wednesday was caused by a Russian missile that failed just after launch, >> according to Russia's defense ministry." >> >> Who to believe ???? >> >> Greg >> >> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Krausert, Robert >> >> wrote: >> >>> Photoshop indeed. That's so bogus. >>> >>> I realize it's scary to consider. But not everything on Al Gore's >>> Internets >>> are real. >>> >>> Cool image though. >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad >>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:36 PM >>> To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; 'Bill Munds'; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >>> >>> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com >>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM >>> To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >>> >>> I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a >>> true outward spiral. >>> Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? >>> >>> > >>> > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Interesting picture. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 >>> >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com >>> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway >>> >> >>> >> Seen from Norway: >>> >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night >>> >> show: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> > http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg >>> jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 >>> >> >>> >> Or go to >>> >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn >>> >> >>> >> Dustin >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Rockets mailing list >>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >>> > >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Dec 10 22:35:31 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:35:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com> <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <1e3b9e78365c061c1af139620674a7ef.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <6c43a16837ccacd3a9468598258e96bb.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> The smoke trail pointing back to the launch point goes straight to the center of the spiral. If it was a spiral decreasing in apparent size as the missile moved farther away the smoke trail would meet the outside edge of the spiral tangentially. You can clearly trace the spiral outward from the center across the smoke trail. Therefore, the spiral must be expanding outwards like a lawn sprinkler's jet. As for time exposure, it would be a short time because of the perfect capture of the foreground scene illuminated by the streetlights. This too disproves the possibility that the spiral path was the path of the rocket. The perfect exposure can be attributed to the automatic capabilities of modern cameras. The smoke trail on the right appears to indicate some degree of spiraling path before the picture. However, the transition from that to the obvious spiral pattern is abrupt; this would not be caused by decreasing atmospheric density. So the dynamics of a rocket flight to create this would be a fairly straight trajectory with some coning behavior abruptly transitioning to high angle coning or even a 'flat spin' at high altitude. And with that flat spin's axis pointed directly at the camera's location. Not impossible, but unlikely. I'd want a lot more data and a lot more thorough analysis of the available photo/video evidence before pronouncing this to be a real rocket launch. Until then, it belongs in the 'gray' box. +McG+ > OK. After both watching the video and looking at the picture I am > positive > that the picture may not be Photoshoped except for touch up on clarity. > It > looks to me like the camera was set on Time Lapse just like those cool > night > traffic photo's that have the streaking head and tail lights. > > > > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Bill Nelson wrote: > >> > And also, the still image shows the spiral pattern extends outward >> > many >> > turns. This would indicate that the event occurred at fairly high >> > altitude since in dense atmosphere the spiral pattern would be >> > constrained >> > in overall radius. And the spiral rings are very concentric, which >> > would >> > mean the rocket was maintaining an overall path directly away from the >> > camera. Which goes back to the questions above: Is the evidence >> > actually consistent with the explanation? >> >> I am almost certain that first pretty picture is just creative >> Photoshop work. I have not found any other pictures that even vaguely >> resemble it. >> >> There are too many inconsistencies, some of which you mentioned, for >> it to be real. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Dec 10 22:50:24 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:50:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather Bragging (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <334268.39342.qm@web111407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <302428fdfe65146a3b9734f1004517e6.squirrel@webmail.peak.org> Message-ID: If the Columbia freezes over I'm moving south next summer! Yup, move to a warmer place before I become the next woolly mammoth entombed in ice... This very spot was under a glacier once. Nothing chiseled in granite that says it can't happen again. Hey, I read Dante in high school! Ninth circle wasn't it? I'm content to let the SPARC folks do the frozen rocket launches. Just be sure to post those pics of tongues frozen to motor cases! ;-) +McG+ > If the Columbia freezes over I will join you with a couple of rockets to > launch on G sized motors. I think that would be awesome. > > Chris Guenther > > > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Robert Krausert > wrote: > >> I'd join you on the Columbia frozen for some rocket flying. But I'm a >> heavy >> one, so the ice would need to be *really* thick to support me. A nice >> Azinger sparky N from the ice would be cool as well. >> >> While this all sounds fun, I'm ready for Spring. The snow tomorrow is >> better than this 20 degree garage. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: "Bill Nelson" >> Cc: "NW Rocketry" >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:19 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Was: More info on ALICE, Now Cold Weather >> Bragging >> (OT) >> >> >> Yup, it's cold but not shockingly so. Somewhere in one of my mother's >>> photo albums is a picture of two men standing next to their 1920's >>> vintage >>> auto......*on* the Columbia river at Vancouver, frozen over solid thick >>> enough to drive across. >>> >>> Hasn't been that cold for that long since then around here. >>> Thankfully! >>> >>> But if it did, I think I'd violate my own policy about going out on ice >>> and go launch rockets in the middle of the Columbia down by Woodland. >>> And >>> take pictures for future generations. :) >>> +McG+ >>> >>> >>> And the last couple years I've gotten real tired of sweeping/shoveling >>>>> all that global warming off my porch in winter. >>>>> >>>> >>>> The temperatures are not records for most of Oregon. >>>> >>>> For Salem on Dec 8th, the low was 14 deg F. The record for the date is >>>> -12 deg F in 1972. Portland, Astoria and Seaside broke the 1972 record >>>> by one to three degrees. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > From jjarmitage at earthlink.net Thu Dec 10 22:59:04 2009 From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:59:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: References: <705e7ce0e2d399673db7a581cdc149b6.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>, , <89882d0e6cfc2cf22277debad67ad3ff.squirrel@wm.integrity.com>, <02c101ca79e0$bd8fbef0$38af3cd0$@net>, <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E48331504@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: Did anyone think to check if someone threw the switch on the "black-hole machine" at CERN? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 2:12 PM To: Robert Krausert; dennis winningstad; brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway I wondered about that. But there is a home video on The Scottish Sun that shows the 'strange light' in the sky over Norway. http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2764647/Spiral-UFO-put s-Norway-in-a-spin.html Who knows? Al could have a conspirator that fakes home movies as well. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: robert.krausert at intel.com > To: winningstad at comcast.net; brodwcjj at integrity.com; appusher at q.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:49:20 -0800 > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Photoshop indeed. That's so bogus. > > I realize it's scary to consider. But not everything on Al Gore's Internets are real. > > Cool image though. > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:36 PM > To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; 'Bill Munds'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM > To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a > true outward spiral. > Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? > > > > > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! > > > > > > > > Interesting picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 > >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > >> > >> Seen from Norway: > >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night > >> show: > >> > >> > http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg > jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 > >> > >> Or go to > >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn > >> > >> Dustin > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From mrrominwa at yahoo.com Fri Dec 11 07:48:46 2009 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 07:48:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55992.14586.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> John what are you doing in russia launching a rockeet? dave --- On Thu, 12/10/09, John Armitage wrote: From: John Armitage Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 10:59 PM Did anyone think to check if someone threw the switch on the "black-hole machine" at CERN? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 2:12 PM To: Robert Krausert; dennis winningstad; brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway I wondered about that. But there is a home video on The Scottish Sun that shows the 'strange light' in the sky over Norway. http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2764647/Spiral-UFO-put s-Norway-in-a-spin.html Who knows?? Al could have a conspirator that fakes home movies as well. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: robert.krausert at intel.com > To: winningstad at comcast.net; brodwcjj at integrity.com; appusher at q.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:49:20 -0800 > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Photoshop indeed. That's so bogus. > > I realize it's scary to consider. But not everything on Al Gore's Internets are real. > > Cool image though. > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:36 PM > To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; 'Bill Munds'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM > To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a > true outward spiral. > Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? > > > > > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! > > > > > > > > Interesting picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 > >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > >> > >> Seen from Norway: > >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night > >> show: > >> > >> > http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg > jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 > >> > >> Or go to > >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn > >> > >> Dustin > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From jjarmitage at earthlink.net Fri Dec 11 20:05:28 2009 From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:05:28 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway In-Reply-To: <55992.14586.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <55992.14586.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7B2F512D1B7345DD9AE7AA127C1F96AC@DellNotebook> They accepted a cheaper bribe (and I wasn't forced to go hybrid ;-) john _____ From: dave woodard [mailto:mrrominwa at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:49 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; John Armitage Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway John what are you doing in russia launching a rockeet dave --- On Thu, 12/10/09, John Armitage wrote: From: John Armitage Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 10:59 PM Did anyone think to check if someone threw the switch on the "black-hole machine" at CERN? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 2:12 PM To: Robert Krausert; dennis winningstad; brodwcjj at integrity.com ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway I wondered about that. But there is a home video on The Scottish Sun that shows the 'strange light' in the sky over Norway. http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2764647/Spiral-UFO-put s-Norway-in-a-spin.html Who knows? Al could have a conspirator that fakes home movies as well. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: robert.krausert at intel.com > To: winningstad at comcast.net ; brodwcjj at integrity.com ; appusher at q.com ; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:49:20 -0800 > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Photoshop indeed. That's so bogus. > > I realize it's scary to consider. But not everything on Al Gore's Internets are real. > > Cool image though. > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] On Behalf Of Dennis S Winningstad > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:36 PM > To: brodwcjj at integrity.com ; 'Bill Munds'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...PhotoShop... > > Dennis S Winningstad > 503-781-3529 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com ] > On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:29 PM > To: Bill Munds; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > > I thought that grey spiral was concentric rings but looks more like a > true outward spiral. > Maybe a Russian experiment to try and hypnotize the country of Norway? > > > > > NO Rocky! Don't look into the light!!!!!! > > > > > > > > Interesting picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:28:48 -0600 > >> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Russian rocket freaks out Norway > >> > >> Seen from Norway: > >> Possible Russian ICBM spins out of control making for a great night > >> show: > >> > >> > http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2009/09dec09/Jan-Petter1.jpg?PHPSESSID=dhgg > jv6j8ec9daomnffr2r1m31 > >> > >> Or go to > >> http://tinyurl.com/ydacsbn > >> > >> Dustin > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockets mailing list > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Sat Dec 12 13:20:35 2009 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:20:35 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] 2 free tickets to Holidays w/ The Trailband Message-ID: I just came buy 2 free tickets for Holidays W/ The Trailband for 3pm today at The Aladdin and have no desire to go. If anyone local wants them and can pick them up in the Beaverton Area call me at 971-222-6782 From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Dec 13 14:08:48 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:08:48 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FAR101 New Version Message-ID: <261FA0A99DEB46D59D57D4023EBEA361@LaptopKrausert> Do you have the URL to the new FAR101 guidelines? I archived the link well to good. If you have the link info, would please email me it offlist? Cheers, Robert From carl at mousetrap.com Sun Dec 13 14:14:17 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:14:17 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FAR101 New Version In-Reply-To: <261FA0A99DEB46D59D57D4023EBEA361@LaptopKrausert> References: <261FA0A99DEB46D59D57D4023EBEA361@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: A quick search provides this link: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14 - Carl On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > Do you have the URL to the new FAR101 guidelines? I archived the link well > to good. If you have the link info, would please email me it offlist? > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Dec 13 17:59:08 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:59:08 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Sanctioned Launches for OROC Message-ID: The joint statement by NAR & TRA regarding insuance coverage has led to the following clarification. Dual TRA and NAR coverage has become an issue, and might leave the club uncovered. OROC is under NAR 555 and TRA 49. As a result of these new guidelines. the following will be OROCs sanctioning: All launches at Brothers and Sheridan will be sanctioned by TRA. All launches at Wilsonville will be sanctioned by NAR. This has no effect on those allowed to fly. NAR and TRA members can fly at events regardless of the sanction. This simply improves coverage and removes any uncertainty. Below is a copy of the new rule. Cheers, Robert Over the years, a number of rocketry clubs with affiliations to TRA or NAR have become official prefectures and sections of both of these organizations. Accordingly, they may be considered "dual affiliation" clubs. Also, many flyers are current members in good standing of both TRA and NAR. While this situation is a positive one in most regards, and exhibits the mutual respect and cooperation both organizations have been able to build over the years, there is one important administrative problem that arises as a result of "dual-affiliation clubs/dual-affiliation members." This is the question of insurance coverage. Both TRA and NAR extend coverage to their members at any event where mutually recognized safety codes are being observed. In the case of a claim for any mishap, the determination of coverage is straightforward in the case of single-affiliation members - TRA members are covered by the TRA policy, and NAR members by the NAR policy. It becomes more complex when dual affiliation members are involved. In such cases, the leadership of TRA and NAR have agreed that any dual TRA/NAR flyer who has a claim at a TRA-sanctioned event would be covered by TRA insurance, and conversely covered by NAR insurance if it is a NAR sanctioned event. Obviously, there is a problem with this approach if the club is a dual TRA/NAR club, and the member is not a single-affiliation member, but a dual TRA/NAR member. In the case of a claim, who covers? The clear issue here is that there is a risk of two insurance policies being charged for one claim, and/or the possibility of controversy or claim denials by one or both carriers. As most of us are aware, controversies in insurance claims can get ugly, and could expose both the local club and national organizations to financial liability and possible legal actions. This is a situation that must be avoided. TRA and NAR leadership have examined this issue at length, and it appears that the most practical, and administratively reasonable process to adopt - and which would also have no negative impact to either organization's insurance policy - is to require dual TRA/NAR clubs to declare in advance of any launch event which days of the event will be considered sanctioned by TRA or NAR. In this way. the "tie-breaker" of any claim by a dual TRA/NAR member can be determined, and there will be no opportunity for double claims, or double denials of claims. To make this work, effective March 1, 2010 all dual affiliation TRA/NAR clubs will be required to send an e-mail message to BOTH TRA and NAR HQ (nar-hq at nar.org) a minimum of 24 hours in advance of any sanctioned event, providing the dates of launch events, and which organization, TRA or NAR, will be considered the sanctioning organization. Clubs are encouraged to supply this declaration as far in advance as is feasible to ensure it is not overlooked. TRA and NAR leadership have also agreed to stress to dual clubs that failure to make this notification may result in denial of claims by both insurance carriers. Also, since it will not be truly possible to legitimately ascertain whose insurance policy should cover, neither TRA nor NAR will extend financial coverage of a portion of the insurance claim deductible, which both organizations have agreed to do by current policy. Thus, it is in everyone's best interest to ensure these declarations are made correctly, and any possibility of claims being questioned is eliminated. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Dec 13 18:01:30 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:01:30 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Sanctioned Launches for OROC Message-ID: BTW, Have talked with Trip and OROC will file the entire year at one time. So TRA and NAR have our launches and section for each on file. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Krausert To: rockets at rocketsnw.com ; members at oregonrocketry.org Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 5:59 PM Subject: Sanctioned Launches for OROC The joint statement by NAR & TRA regarding insuance coverage has led to the following clarification. Dual TRA and NAR coverage has become an issue, and might leave the club uncovered. OROC is under NAR 555 and TRA 49. As a result of these new guidelines. the following will be OROCs sanctioning: All launches at Brothers and Sheridan will be sanctioned by TRA. All launches at Wilsonville will be sanctioned by NAR. This has no effect on those allowed to fly. NAR and TRA members can fly at events regardless of the sanction. This simply improves coverage and removes any uncertainty. Below is a copy of the new rule. Cheers, Robert Over the years, a number of rocketry clubs with affiliations to TRA or NAR have become official prefectures and sections of both of these organizations. Accordingly, they may be considered "dual affiliation" clubs. Also, many flyers are current members in good standing of both TRA and NAR. While this situation is a positive one in most regards, and exhibits the mutual respect and cooperation both organizations have been able to build over the years, there is one important administrative problem that arises as a result of "dual-affiliation clubs/dual-affiliation members." This is the question of insurance coverage. Both TRA and NAR extend coverage to their members at any event where mutually recognized safety codes are being observed. In the case of a claim for any mishap, the determination of coverage is straightforward in the case of single-affiliation members - TRA members are covered by the TRA policy, and NAR members by the NAR policy. It becomes more complex when dual affiliation members are involved. In such cases, the leadership of TRA and NAR have agreed that any dual TRA/NAR flyer who has a claim at a TRA-sanctioned event would be covered by TRA insurance, and conversely covered by NAR insurance if it is a NAR sanctioned event. Obviously, there is a problem with this approach if the club is a dual TRA/NAR club, and the member is not a single-affiliation member, but a dual TRA/NAR member. In the case of a claim, who covers? The clear issue here is that there is a risk of two insurance policies being charged for one claim, and/or the possibility of controversy or claim denials by one or both carriers. As most of us are aware, controversies in insurance claims can get ugly, and could expose both the local club and national organizations to financial liability and possible legal actions. This is a situation that must be avoided. TRA and NAR leadership have examined this issue at length, and it appears that the most practical, and administratively reasonable process to adopt - and which would also have no negative impact to either organization's insurance policy - is to require dual TRA/NAR clubs to declare in advance of any launch event which days of the event will be considered sanctioned by TRA or NAR. In this way. the "tie-breaker" of any claim by a dual TRA/NAR member can be determined, and there will be no opportunity for double claims, or double denials of claims. To make this work, effective March 1, 2010 all dual affiliation TRA/NAR clubs will be required to send an e-mail message to BOTH TRA and NAR HQ (nar-hq at nar.org) a minimum of 24 hours in advance of any sanctioned event, providing the dates of launch events, and which organization, TRA or NAR, will be considered the sanctioning organization. Clubs are encouraged to supply this declaration as far in advance as is feasible to ensure it is not overlooked. TRA and NAR leadership have also agreed to stress to dual clubs that failure to make this notification may result in denial of claims by both insurance carriers. Also, since it will not be truly possible to legitimately ascertain whose insurance policy should cover, neither TRA nor NAR will extend financial coverage of a portion of the insurance claim deductible, which both organizations have agreed to do by current policy. Thus, it is in everyone's best interest to ensure these declarations are made correctly, and any possibility of claims being questioned is eliminated. From lsagan123 at msn.com Mon Dec 14 20:05:44 2009 From: lsagan123 at msn.com (Ralph Strauser) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:05:44 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OT but Fun In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a fun link for those that are into cooking treats for the holidays! http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/misc/notrocs/kitchen.aspx From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Dec 15 18:59:33 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:59:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] OT but Fun In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bah humbug. Send me a link to some "flying" saucers to go with my Alice in Wonderland teacup... :) It's interesting though. Everybody in the 1950's just assumed moon rockets would look like V-2's. And even to this day the 1950's spaceships are instantly recognized. But the real McCoys are very different. And yet hardly anyone knows the V-2 was designed according to the Haack shapes, even though they instantly recognize it. +McG+ > Just a fun link for those that are into cooking treats for the holidays! > > http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/misc/notrocs/kitchen.aspx > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members at oregonrocketry.org > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue Dec 15 23:00:08 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:00:08 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] OT but Fun In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B288578.5000604@hawkfeather.com> What about Venus rockets from the 50's? http://www.wrongsideoftheart.com/wp-content/gallery/posters-f/first_spaceship_on_venus_poster_01.jpg Andrew. kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: > Bah humbug. Send me a link to some "flying" saucers to go with my Alice > in Wonderland teacup... :) > > It's interesting though. Everybody in the 1950's just assumed moon > rockets would look like V-2's. And even to this day the 1950's spaceships > are instantly recognized. But the real McCoys are very different. > > And yet hardly anyone knows the V-2 was designed according to the Haack > shapes, even though they instantly recognize it. > +McG+ > > >> Just a fun link for those that are into cooking treats for the holidays! >> >> http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/misc/notrocs/kitchen.aspx >> _______________________________________________ >> Members mailing list >> Members at oregonrocketry.org >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From tim_ryerse at msn.com Wed Dec 16 04:48:41 2009 From: tim_ryerse at msn.com (MARY ANNE RYESE, TIM RYERSE) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 04:48:41 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Update 2010 Brochure Photo's Message-ID: All - I want to update two of the photo's in our trifold brochure for 2010. I'm looking for a good 'Flight Line' shot (this could include one taken from your rocket) and one additional 'Rocket' shot. Well light, good detail, any 'non-web' resolution. Fred or John do you have any close ups of a motor burn that I might use as a 'water mark' on the brochure? Email to: tim_ryerse at msn.comDeadline of 12/31/09 Tim Ryerse :-) From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 16 08:10:03 2009 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:10:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [RocketsNW] NWR Web Site - Nice! Message-ID: <14296354.1260979803918.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I have very little time to engage in rocketry sorta now, so correct me if I'm wrong. The "new" NWR web site supercedes the older one, correct? So, image gallery from old is lost? Dang, it will be a few months yet, but looking foward to getting back to it - the new web site looks nice from the brief that I gave it - kudos to all making the PNW look good. /Steve From greg at blastzone.com Wed Dec 16 08:23:38 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:23:38 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NWR Web Site - Nice! In-Reply-To: <14296354.1260979803918.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <14296354.1260979803918.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0aed01ca7e6c$21fac210$65f04630$@com> The old site is still available at old.rocketsnw.com, but not forever. The images/videos there will be archived, and I can make them available if anyone needs them after the old site goes away. The new image gallery is in place, too. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 8:10 AM > To: RocketsNW Mailing List > Subject: [RocketsNW] NWR Web Site - Nice! > > I have very little time to engage in rocketry sorta now, so correct me if I'm > wrong. > > The "new" NWR web site supercedes the older one, correct? So, image gallery > from old is lost? > > Dang, it will be a few months yet, but looking foward to getting back to it - > the new web site looks nice from the brief that I gave it - kudos to all > making the PNW look good. > > /Steve > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rnech at yahoo.com Wed Dec 16 08:32:08 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:32:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Motorcycle rocket launcher: definitely try at home Message-ID: <343201.87634.qm@web111410.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The list has been a little too quiet. Time to shake things up with this article. Yes, I fly rockets and I do ride motorcycles but I haven't tried this one yet. Maybe it'll make RocketryPlanet! Riiiiiiiight.... robert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Motorcycle rocket launcher: definitely try at home http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/12/motorcycle-rocket-launcher-def.html A still photo of the launch and an embedded video are included with the article. The comments at the bootom are quite funny. Video only. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLKL7EwTOZo Other comments I have seen about this article on another forum. You forgot the HE tip on the model-rocket engines... C4 would work nicely. ACME brand rockets? Ha!....all he needs is the ACME label. LOL wish I had one of these for my scooter. It would make the idiots that cut me off all the time think twice about doing it again. Darwin would be proud... For a second I thought this was going to be one of those urban myths with the guy putting the rocket motor on the back to give them a ?little? boost... You know there is a reason insurance for these rice rocket riders is so high... Seriously, this can have real military applications, esp urban areas. get in, fire, and get out quickly. Works better than a horn, I?ll bet. ?Outta my way!? What a market niche. This guy will go far if he survives. The guy should maybe pre-record his own obituary, cuz if he shoots one of these at the wrong person, he?s gonna end up dead. Chuck Norris is way ahead of all of you: http://www.stomptokyo.com/otf/Delta/DzlItem44.jpg You can't see it in the pic, but this puppy also had a mortar launcher on the back. Uber-awesome. Sorry, you "Children of the 80's". You can go back a bit farther to 1982, and experience the insanity of "MEGAFORCE". http://www.badmovies.org/movies/megaforce/megaforce1.jpg And, yes, it flew. http://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/megaforce.jpg Boss Hoss motorcycle with twin Vulcan mini guns. http://i50.tinypic.com/sp7yvb.jpg It looks like something out of one of the early James Bond movies. SPECTRE used something like this to ?fire? an operative who had given out too much information.. From arrsales at cox.net Wed Dec 16 08:37:04 2009 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:37:04 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Motorcycle rocket launcher: definitely try at home In-Reply-To: <343201.87634.qm@web111410.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <343201.87634.qm@web111410.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm glad he doesn't know about HPR! :) He's a better bike rider than a rocket builder that's for sure. I say strap a pair of N2000W's on the back and see if he can even hang on. LOL -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Nech Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:32 AM To: NW Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] Motorcycle rocket launcher: definitely try at home The list has been a little too quiet. Time to shake things up with this article. Yes, I fly rockets and I do ride motorcycles but I haven't tried this one yet. Maybe it'll make RocketryPlanet! Riiiiiiiight.... robert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Motorcycle rocket launcher: definitely try at home http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/12/motorcycle-rocket-launcher-def.htm l A still photo of the launch and an embedded video are included with the article. The comments at the bootom are quite funny. Video only. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLKL7EwTOZo Other comments I have seen about this article on another forum. You forgot the HE tip on the model-rocket engines... C4 would work nicely. ACME brand rockets? Ha!....all he needs is the ACME label. LOL wish I had one of these for my scooter. It would make the idiots that cut me off all the time think twice about doing it again. Darwin would be proud... For a second I thought this was going to be one of those urban myths with the guy putting the rocket motor on the back to give them a "little" boost... You know there is a reason insurance for these rice rocket riders is so high... Seriously, this can have real military applications, esp urban areas. get in, fire, and get out quickly. Works better than a horn, I'll bet. "Outta my way!" What a market niche. This guy will go far if he survives. The guy should maybe pre-record his own obituary, cuz if he shoots one of these at the wrong person, he's gonna end up dead. Chuck Norris is way ahead of all of you: http://www.stomptokyo.com/otf/Delta/DzlItem44.jpg You can't see it in the pic, but this puppy also had a mortar launcher on the back. Uber-awesome. Sorry, you "Children of the 80's". You can go back a bit farther to 1982, and experience the insanity of "MEGAFORCE". http://www.badmovies.org/movies/megaforce/megaforce1.jpg And, yes, it flew. http://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/megaforce.jpg Boss Hoss motorcycle with twin Vulcan mini guns. http://i50.tinypic.com/sp7yvb.jpg It looks like something out of one of the early James Bond movies. SPECTRE used something like this to 'fire' an operative who had given out too much information.. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rnech at yahoo.com Wed Dec 16 08:56:47 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:56:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Motorcycle rocket launcher: definitely try at home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <146271.48956.qm@web111401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> To go 365mph like this guy on his motorcycle? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9VePfOXn3o Or this guy on a bicycle? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vyOwvEKms8 Robert --- On Wed, 12/16/09, Always Ready Rocketry wrote: > From: Always Ready Rocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Motorcycle rocket launcher: definitely try at home > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 8:37 AM > I'm glad he doesn't know about HPR! > :)? He's a better bike rider than a > rocket builder that's for sure. I say strap a pair of > N2000W's on the back > and see if he can even hang on. LOL > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Nech > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:32 AM > To: NW Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Motorcycle rocket launcher: definitely > try at home > > The list has been a little too quiet.? Time to shake > things up with this > article.? Yes, I fly rockets and I do ride motorcycles > but I haven't tried > this one yet.? Maybe it'll make RocketryPlanet!? > Riiiiiiiight.... > > robert > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Motorcycle rocket launcher: definitely try at home > > http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/12/motorcycle-rocket-launcher-def.htm > l > > A still photo of the launch and an embedded video are > included with the > article.? The comments at the bootom are quite funny. > > Video only. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLKL7EwTOZo > > > Other comments I have seen about this article on another > forum. > > You forgot the HE tip on the model-rocket engines... C4 > would work nicely. > > ACME brand rockets? > > Ha!....all he needs is the ACME label. > > LOL wish I had one of these for my scooter. It would make > the idiots that > cut me off all the time think twice about doing it again. > > Darwin would be proud... > For a second I thought this was going to be one of those > urban myths with > the guy putting the rocket motor on the back to give them a > "little" > boost... > You know there is a reason insurance for these rice rocket > riders is so > high... > > Seriously, this can have real military applications, esp > urban areas. get > in, fire, and get out quickly. > > Works better than a horn, I'll bet. "Outta my way!" > > What a market niche. This guy will go far if he survives. > > The guy should maybe pre-record his own obituary, cuz if he > shoots one of > these at the wrong person, he's gonna end up dead. > > Chuck Norris is way ahead of all of you: > http://www.stomptokyo.com/otf/Delta/DzlItem44.jpg > You can't see it in the pic, but this puppy also had a > mortar launcher on > the back. Uber-awesome. > > Sorry, you "Children of the 80's". > You can go back a bit farther to 1982, and experience the > insanity of > "MEGAFORCE". > http://www.badmovies.org/movies/megaforce/megaforce1.jpg > And, yes, it flew. > http://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/megaforce.jpg > > Boss Hoss motorcycle with twin Vulcan mini guns. > http://i50.tinypic.com/sp7yvb.jpg > > It looks like something out of one of the early James Bond > movies. SPECTRE > used something like this to 'fire' an operative who had > given out too much > information.. > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > From ds at pacificrocketry.com Wed Dec 16 10:36:02 2009 From: ds at pacificrocketry.com (Denny Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:36:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Tripoli Puget Sound (#41) - Nominations Message-ID: <001b01ca7e7e$9e807c00$db817400$@com> Hello everyone, and happy holidays. It is time to hold elections for Prefect and Secretary of Tripoli - Puget Sound (41). Requirements and responsibilities are as follows: Prefect: 1. Must be at least 21 years old. 2. Must be a responsible person having been a member of Tripoli for at least 1 year. 3. Must be certified Level 2. 4. Will oversee the Prefecture's compliance with all TRA rules and regulations. 5. Will certify TRA members to Level 1 and Level 2. 6. Will administer Level 2 written tests as required. 7. Will be responsible for keeping TRA apprised of local organization activities as necessary. 8. Will be available to attend the majority of local launches. Secretary: 1. Must be a responsible person having been a member of Tripoli for at least 1 year. 2. Will assist the Prefect in carrying out the business of the Prefecture. 3. Will conduct an annual Prefect election. Please forward names of your nominations meeting the above requirements for the appropriate position to Andrew MacMillen @ andrew at hawkfeather.com. Nominations will close Saturday, December 26th, with the election following immediately. Thank you, Denny Smith Tripoli - Puget Sound (41) Secretary From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Dec 16 18:45:34 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:45:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] OT but Fun In-Reply-To: <4B288578.5000604@hawkfeather.com> References: <4B288578.5000604@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <2344e4b8a77fd0959ba7a01983f085d1.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Now there's a true lack of understanding of spacecraft design! Ok, that's definitely influenced by needle nose hypersonic shapes. BTW, thanks for the link: it'll provide many leads for me to order movies from Netflix! (Which I bet doesn't have a lot of these.) +McG+ > What about Venus rockets from the 50's? > > http://www.wrongsideoftheart.com/wp-content/gallery/posters-f/first_spaceship_on_venus_poster_01.jpg > > Andrew. > > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: >> Bah humbug. Send me a link to some "flying" saucers to go with my Alice >> in Wonderland teacup... :) >> >> It's interesting though. Everybody in the 1950's just assumed moon >> rockets would look like V-2's. And even to this day the 1950's >> spaceships >> are instantly recognized. But the real McCoys are very different. >> >> And yet hardly anyone knows the V-2 was designed according to the Haack >> shapes, even though they instantly recognize it. >> +McG+ >> >> >>> Just a fun link for those that are into cooking treats for the >>> holidays! >>> >>> http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/misc/notrocs/kitchen.aspx >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Members mailing list >>> Members at oregonrocketry.org >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu Dec 17 11:24:50 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:24:50 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Tripoli Puget Sound (#41) - Nominations In-Reply-To: <001b01ca7e7e$9e807c00$db817400$@com> References: <001b01ca7e7e$9e807c00$db817400$@com> Message-ID: <4B2A8582.2040600@hawkfeather.com> Please include your TRA number when you send me your nominations. Thanx, Andrew. Denny Smith wrote: > Hello everyone, and happy holidays. > > It is time to hold elections for Prefect and Secretary of Tripoli - Puget > Sound (41). > > Requirements and responsibilities are as follows: > > Prefect: > > 1. Must be at least 21 years old. > > 2. Must be a responsible person having been a member of Tripoli for at > least 1 year. > > 3. Must be certified Level 2. > > 4. Will oversee the Prefecture's compliance with all TRA rules and > regulations. > > 5. Will certify TRA members to Level 1 and Level 2. > > 6. Will administer Level 2 written tests as required. > > 7. Will be responsible for keeping TRA apprised of local organization > activities as necessary. > > 8. Will be available to attend the majority of local launches. > > > Secretary: > > 1. Must be a responsible person having been a member of Tripoli for at > least 1 year. > > 2. Will assist the Prefect in carrying out the business of the > Prefecture. > > 3. Will conduct an annual Prefect election. > > > Please forward names of your nominations meeting the above requirements for > the appropriate position to Andrew MacMillen @ andrew at hawkfeather.com. > > Nominations will close Saturday, December 26th, with the election following > immediately. > > Thank you, > Denny Smith > Tripoli - Puget Sound (41) Secretary From holdencurrency at comcast.net Thu Dec 17 12:04:27 2009 From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:04:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - 6PM + Message-ID: <454106300.584551261080267628.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hi all, ??? I'd Really like to remind everyone about the?Christmas party / Open House this Saturday (Dec. 19th.) Time: 4PM - 6PM.?-----> ?Come for the whole event or Just Pop in and say Hi! 1) Pot Luck: Yes 2) White Elephant Gift Exchange?($10 Limit): Depends on Participation! 3) FITZ Video Viewing: YES 4) Big Sale on Rocketry Products!: Yes 5) *Used Product Auction (Bring Your Unused Stuff): Depends on Participation! 6) Project Table ( Show Off Products ) 7) Door Prizes: MMMM,... You'll See,.... Mabe PLEASE RSVP so I have an Idea of how many to expect.? I'm really Excited & looking forward to having great time. Special thanks to all who have supported your Local rocketry vender's this year, Hope to see ya there! Merry Christmas, Chris W. Holden www.holdenshobbies.com ? *15% of auction fee based on sale price. From holdencurrency at comcast.net Thu Dec 17 12:08:09 2009 From: holdencurrency at comcast.net (Chris Holden) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:08:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - 6PM + In-Reply-To: <454106300.584551261080267628.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1644961032.585651261080489815.JavaMail.root@sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Oops Forgot the location:?? 5015 Auburn Way N. ?????????????????????????????????????????????? Auburn WA. 98002 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Holden" To: "Rocket Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:04:27 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - 6PM + Hi all, ??? I'd Really like to remind everyone about the?Christmas party / Open House this Saturday (Dec. 19th.) Time: 4PM - 6PM.?-----> ?Come for the whole event or Just Pop in and say Hi! 1) Pot Luck: Yes 2) White Elephant Gift Exchange?($10 Limit): Depends on Participation! 3) FITZ Video Viewing: YES 4) Big Sale on Rocketry Products!: Yes 5) *Used Product Auction (Bring Your Unused Stuff): Depends on Participation! 6) Project Table ( Show Off Products ) 7) Door Prizes: MMMM,... You'll See,.... Mabe PLEASE RSVP so I have an Idea of how many to expect.? I'm really Excited & looking forward to having great time. Special thanks to all who have supported your Local rocketry vender's this year, Hope to see ya there! Merry Christmas, Chris W. Holden www.holdenshobbies.com ? *15% of auction fee based on sale price. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ?? From t.j.doll at att.net Thu Dec 17 18:55:15 2009 From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:55:15 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Calenders Message-ID: <121820090255.8904.4B2AEF13000B70CF000022C822230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> There was a long thread about a month ago about why didn't we put together a northwest high power rocketry calender. Well, it's not Northwest, but EMRR has released their 2010 calender - http://www.rocketreviews.com/eat/2010.shtml Profits go to a good cause (EMRR). Check out July - you might recognize someone Tim From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Dec 17 19:14:10 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:14:10 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Calenders References: <121820090255.8904.4B2AEF13000B70CF000022C822230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net> Message-ID: <8A5B1119FCE142259AED19E725AD1DA3@LaptopKrausert> Here is the schedule for the Northwest. WAC is still missing their final dates. But those will be added once they're final. http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17 Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rocket Lost" Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:55 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Calenders > There was a long thread about a month ago about why didn't we put together > a northwest high power rocketry calender. Well, it's not Northwest, but > EMRR has released their 2010 calender - > http://www.rocketreviews.com/eat/2010.shtml > Profits go to a good cause (EMRR). Check out July - you might recognize > someone > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From dmrandall at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 06:09:02 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:09:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Launch Reminder - Frost & Fire II - Sunday Dec 20 Message-ID: <6bc920e40912180609w35366c35l98c31394f34a6e29@mail.gmail.com> Sunday the 20th is the Second Annual Frost and Fire launch at 60 Acres in Redmdond! GSE (ground support equipment) will be available - controller, launch rods and a rail. Weather permitting, the launch will be from 11 am - 4 pm. I have confirmation from Peter Shurke that the Ingraham High students will be there giving their scaled down SLI rocket a test-flight. Also, stop by Holden's Hobbies Open House on Saturday and pick up your supplies, chat all things rocketry and get in the mood for Sunday's Launch! Reminder, this site supports Class 1 rockets. More site info here: http://www.rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 -- - Dave From jhadv at pacifier.com Fri Dec 18 11:30:37 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NEW LAWSUIT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20091218112942.00c47e70@mail.iinet.com> Saw this on the TRA list though it looked important. http://tinyurl.com/24wtx From ryan98391 at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 15:29:06 2009 From: ryan98391 at gmail.com (Ryan Williams) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:29:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 23, Issue 28 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll be attending! I plan on buying some small Estes kits for my neighbor so he can share the hobby of rocketry with his family in a safe and fun fashion! On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send Rockets mailing list submissions to > rockets at rocketsnw.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockets-request at rocketsnw.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockets-owner at rocketsnw.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockets digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - 6PM + > (Chris Holden) > 2. Re: Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - 6PM + > (Chris Holden) > 3. High Power Calenders (t.j.doll at att.net) > 4. Re: High Power Calenders (Robert Krausert) > 5. Launch Reminder - Frost & Fire II - Sunday Dec 20 (Dave Randall) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:04:27 +0000 (UTC) > From: Chris Holden > To: Rocket Mailing List > Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - > 6PM + > Message-ID: > < > 454106300.584551261080267628.JavaMail.root at sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > Hi all, > > > > ??? I'd Really like to remind everyone about the?Christmas party / Open > House this Saturday (Dec. 19th.) > > > > Time: 4PM - 6PM.?-----> ?Come for the whole event or Just Pop in and say > Hi! > > > > 1) Pot Luck: Yes > > 2) White Elephant Gift Exchange?($10 Limit): Depends on Participation! > > 3) FITZ Video Viewing: YES > > 4) Big Sale on Rocketry Products!: Yes > > 5) *Used Product Auction (Bring Your Unused Stuff): Depends on > Participation! > > 6) Project Table ( Show Off Products ) > > 7) Door Prizes: MMMM,... You'll See,.... Mabe > > > > PLEASE RSVP so I have an Idea of how many to expect.? > > > > I'm really Excited & looking forward to having great time. > > Special thanks to all who have supported your Local rocketry vender's this > year, Hope to see ya there! > > > > Merry Christmas, > > Chris W. Holden > > www.holdenshobbies.com ? > > > > *15% of auction fee based on sale price. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:08:09 +0000 (UTC) > From: Chris Holden > To: Rocket Mailing List > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM > - 6PM + > Message-ID: > < > 1644961032.585651261080489815.JavaMail.root at sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > Oops Forgot the location:?? 5015 Auburn Way N. > > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? Auburn WA. 98002 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Holden" > To: "Rocket Mailing List" > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:04:27 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - 6PM + > > > > Hi all, > > > > ??? I'd Really like to remind everyone about the?Christmas party / Open > House this Saturday (Dec. 19th.) > > > > Time: 4PM - 6PM.?-----> ?Come for the whole event or Just Pop in and say > Hi! > > > > 1) Pot Luck: Yes > > 2) White Elephant Gift Exchange?($10 Limit): Depends on Participation! > > 3) FITZ Video Viewing: YES > > 4) Big Sale on Rocketry Products!: Yes > > 5) *Used Product Auction (Bring Your Unused Stuff): Depends on > Participation! > > 6) Project Table ( Show Off Products ) > > 7) Door Prizes: MMMM,... You'll See,.... Mabe > > > > PLEASE RSVP so I have an Idea of how many to expect.? > > > > I'm really Excited & looking forward to having great time. > > Special thanks to all who have supported your Local rocketry vender's this > year, Hope to see ya there! > > > > Merry Christmas, > > Chris W. Holden > > www.holdenshobbies.com ? > > > > *15% of auction fee based on sale price. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ?? > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:55:15 +0000 > From: t.j.doll at att.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com (Rocket Lost) > Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Calenders > Message-ID: > < > 121820090255.8904.4B2AEF13000B70CF000022C822230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B at att.net > > > > Content-Type: text/plain > > There was a long thread about a month ago about why didn't we put together > a northwest high power rocketry calender. Well, it's not Northwest, but > EMRR has released their 2010 calender - > http://www.rocketreviews.com/eat/2010.shtml > Profits go to a good cause (EMRR). Check out July - you might recognize > someone > > Tim > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:14:10 -0800 > From: "Robert Krausert" > To: , "Rocket Lost" > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] High Power Calenders > Message-ID: <8A5B1119FCE142259AED19E725AD1DA3 at LaptopKrausert> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Here is the schedule for the Northwest. WAC is still missing their final > dates. But those will be added once they're final. > > http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17 > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rocket Lost" > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:55 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Calenders > > > > There was a long thread about a month ago about why didn't we put > together > > a northwest high power rocketry calender. Well, it's not Northwest, but > > EMRR has released their 2010 calender - > > http://www.rocketreviews.com/eat/2010.shtml > > Profits go to a good cause (EMRR). Check out July - you might recognize > > someone > > > > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:09:02 -0800 > From: Dave Randall > To: Rockets NW list > Subject: [RocketsNW] Launch Reminder - Frost & Fire II - Sunday Dec 20 > Message-ID: > <6bc920e40912180609w35366c35l98c31394f34a6e29 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Sunday the 20th is the Second Annual Frost and Fire launch at 60 Acres > in Redmdond! GSE (ground support equipment) will be available - > controller, launch rods and a rail. Weather permitting, the launch > will be from 11 am - 4 pm. I have confirmation from Peter Shurke that > the Ingraham High students will be there giving their scaled down SLI > rocket a test-flight. > > Also, stop by Holden's Hobbies Open House on Saturday and pick up your > supplies, chat all things rocketry and get in the mood for Sunday's > Launch! > > Reminder, this site supports Class 1 rockets. > > More site info here: http://www.rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 > > -- > - Dave > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > End of Rockets Digest, Vol 23, Issue 28 > *************************************** > From ryan98391 at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 15:36:22 2009 From: ryan98391 at gmail.com (Ryan Williams) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:36:22 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 23, Issue 28 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll be attending Holden's Hobbies Christmas party. Just to clarify. heh On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Ryan Williams wrote: > I'll be attending! I plan on buying some small Estes kits for my neighbor > so he can share the hobby of rocketry with his family in a safe and fun > fashion! > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > >> Send Rockets mailing list submissions to >> rockets at rocketsnw.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> rockets-request at rocketsnw.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> rockets-owner at rocketsnw.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Rockets digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - 6PM + >> (Chris Holden) >> 2. Re: Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - 6PM + >> (Chris Holden) >> 3. High Power Calenders (t.j.doll at att.net) >> 4. Re: High Power Calenders (Robert Krausert) >> 5. Launch Reminder - Frost & Fire II - Sunday Dec 20 (Dave Randall) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:04:27 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Chris Holden >> To: Rocket Mailing List >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - >> 6PM + >> Message-ID: >> < >> 454106300.584551261080267628.JavaMail.root at sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net >> > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> ??? I'd Really like to remind everyone about the?Christmas party / Open >> House this Saturday (Dec. 19th.) >> >> >> >> Time: 4PM - 6PM.?-----> ?Come for the whole event or Just Pop in and say >> Hi! >> >> >> >> 1) Pot Luck: Yes >> >> 2) White Elephant Gift Exchange?($10 Limit): Depends on Participation! >> >> 3) FITZ Video Viewing: YES >> >> 4) Big Sale on Rocketry Products!: Yes >> >> 5) *Used Product Auction (Bring Your Unused Stuff): Depends on >> Participation! >> >> 6) Project Table ( Show Off Products ) >> >> 7) Door Prizes: MMMM,... You'll See,.... Mabe >> >> >> >> PLEASE RSVP so I have an Idea of how many to expect.? >> >> >> >> I'm really Excited & looking forward to having great time. >> >> Special thanks to all who have supported your Local rocketry vender's this >> year, Hope to see ya there! >> >> >> >> Merry Christmas, >> >> Chris W. Holden >> >> www.holdenshobbies.com ? >> >> >> >> *15% of auction fee based on sale price. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:08:09 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Chris Holden >> To: Rocket Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM >> - 6PM + >> Message-ID: >> < >> 1644961032.585651261080489815.JavaMail.root at sz0153a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net >> > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> >> >> Oops Forgot the location:?? 5015 Auburn Way N. >> >> ?????????????????????????????????????????????? Auburn WA. 98002 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Holden" >> To: "Rocket Mailing List" >> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:04:27 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Holdens Hobbies Holiday Party Saturday 4:00PM - 6PM + >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> ??? I'd Really like to remind everyone about the?Christmas party / Open >> House this Saturday (Dec. 19th.) >> >> >> >> Time: 4PM - 6PM.?-----> ?Come for the whole event or Just Pop in and say >> Hi! >> >> >> >> 1) Pot Luck: Yes >> >> 2) White Elephant Gift Exchange?($10 Limit): Depends on Participation! >> >> 3) FITZ Video Viewing: YES >> >> 4) Big Sale on Rocketry Products!: Yes >> >> 5) *Used Product Auction (Bring Your Unused Stuff): Depends on >> Participation! >> >> 6) Project Table ( Show Off Products ) >> >> 7) Door Prizes: MMMM,... You'll See,.... Mabe >> >> >> >> PLEASE RSVP so I have an Idea of how many to expect.? >> >> >> >> I'm really Excited & looking forward to having great time. >> >> Special thanks to all who have supported your Local rocketry vender's this >> year, Hope to see ya there! >> >> >> >> Merry Christmas, >> >> Chris W. Holden >> >> www.holdenshobbies.com ? >> >> >> >> *15% of auction fee based on sale price. >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> ?? >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:55:15 +0000 >> From: t.j.doll at att.net >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com (Rocket Lost) >> Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Calenders >> Message-ID: >> < >> 121820090255.8904.4B2AEF13000B70CF000022C822230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B at att.net >> > >> >> Content-Type: text/plain >> >> There was a long thread about a month ago about why didn't we put together >> a northwest high power rocketry calender. Well, it's not Northwest, but >> EMRR has released their 2010 calender - >> http://www.rocketreviews.com/eat/2010.shtml >> Profits go to a good cause (EMRR). Check out July - you might recognize >> someone >> >> Tim >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:14:10 -0800 >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: , "Rocket Lost" >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] High Power Calenders >> Message-ID: <8A5B1119FCE142259AED19E725AD1DA3 at LaptopKrausert> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Here is the schedule for the Northwest. WAC is still missing their final >> dates. But those will be added once they're final. >> >> http://rocketsnw.com/?page_id=17 >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Rocket Lost" >> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:55 PM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] High Power Calenders >> >> >> > There was a long thread about a month ago about why didn't we put >> together >> > a northwest high power rocketry calender. Well, it's not Northwest, but >> > EMRR has released their 2010 calender - >> > http://www.rocketreviews.com/eat/2010.shtml >> > Profits go to a good cause (EMRR). Check out July - you might recognize >> > someone >> > >> > Tim >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:09:02 -0800 >> From: Dave Randall >> To: Rockets NW list >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Launch Reminder - Frost & Fire II - Sunday Dec 20 >> Message-ID: >> <6bc920e40912180609w35366c35l98c31394f34a6e29 at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Sunday the 20th is the Second Annual Frost and Fire launch at 60 Acres >> in Redmdond! GSE (ground support equipment) will be available - >> controller, launch rods and a rail. Weather permitting, the launch >> will be from 11 am - 4 pm. I have confirmation from Peter Shurke that >> the Ingraham High students will be there giving their scaled down SLI >> rocket a test-flight. >> >> Also, stop by Holden's Hobbies Open House on Saturday and pick up your >> supplies, chat all things rocketry and get in the mood for Sunday's >> Launch! >> >> Reminder, this site supports Class 1 rockets. >> >> More site info here: http://www.rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 >> >> -- >> - Dave >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> End of Rockets Digest, Vol 23, Issue 28 >> *************************************** >> > > From mrrominwa at yahoo.com Fri Dec 18 15:49:12 2009 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:49:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] NEW LAWSUIT In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20091218112942.00c47e70@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <647247.20305.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> yes and the problem is the jury are not smart enough to get out of jury duty, ACME will lose --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Paul Bogdanich wrote: From: Paul Bogdanich Subject: [RocketsNW] NEW LAWSUIT To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 11:30 AM Saw this on the TRA list though it looked important. http://tinyurl.com/24wtx _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Dec 18 20:00:51 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:00:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] NEW LAWSUIT In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20091218112942.00c47e70@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20091218112942.00c47e70@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <17d8b8fd0495d6ec78dbb908419dc5cc.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> So long as Mr. Coyote did not get his lawyer from the Acme Law Firm(and it looks like he didn't)I think he has a pretty good case. Wile E. Coyote should also sue the Roadrunner for intentionally inflicting emotional distress on Mr. Coyote for failing to allow himself to be captured. +McG+ > Saw this on the TRA list though it looked important. > > > http://tinyurl.com/24wtx > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 20:32:15 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:32:15 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NEW LAWSUIT References: <5.2.0.9.2.20091218112942.00c47e70@mail.iinet.com> <17d8b8fd0495d6ec78dbb908419dc5cc.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <51F812C750EE41F7B016BE1BF8DC1C8B@LaptopKrausert> Maybe Mr Coyote should simply pop that bird (Roadrunner)with him nine. Then send a picture to ACME. They'll settle. But that might require ordering 9mm bullets from ACME. Oops. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Paul Bogdanich" Cc: Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] NEW LAWSUIT > So long as Mr. Coyote did not get his lawyer from the Acme Law Firm(and it > looks like he didn't)I think he has a pretty good case. > > Wile E. Coyote should also sue the Roadrunner for intentionally inflicting > emotional distress on Mr. Coyote for failing to allow himself to be > captured. > +McG+ > > >> Saw this on the TRA list though it looked important. >> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/24wtx >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Fri Dec 18 21:32:39 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:32:39 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT] OregonRocketry New Website Message-ID: <92B97700A6A74C638555F4218DAFF39E@LaptopKrausert> Just wanted everyone to be advised that the OregonRocketry website has been updated. Content should be more up to date. And should be easier to maintain going forward. The update, migration is completed. The new site: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/ Cheers, Robert From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sat Dec 19 00:24:19 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 00:24:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT] OregonRocketry New Website In-Reply-To: <92B97700A6A74C638555F4218DAFF39E@LaptopKrausert> References: <92B97700A6A74C638555F4218DAFF39E@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <1b9e2a0d9ff13a865cb9d3df2c4e5e59.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Thanks to all who put in the hours to accomplish the make-over. A bad website can really turn off people--a poorly updated one sends a message of disorganization and lack of interest. Now Oregon Rocketry has a fresh new 'face' on the web. +McG+ > Just wanted everyone to be advised that the OregonRocketry website has > been updated. Content should be more up to date. And should be easier to > maintain going forward. The update, migration is completed. > > The new site: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/ > > Cheers, > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From carl at mousetrap.com Sat Dec 19 12:45:32 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:45:32 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations Message-ID: Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a margin of stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" equations, but has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, or am I going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? Thanks. - Carl From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Sat Dec 19 12:56:58 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:56:58 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B2D3E1A.6010304@hawkfeather.com> I've "usually" been OK based on the RS stability, but I also usually check with an empty motor simmed JIC. OTOH if you fly hybrids, the question never comes up ;) Andrew. Carl Hamilton wrote: > Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are > compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a margin of > stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" equations, but > has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the > "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, or am I > going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From glech at aol.com Sat Dec 19 13:17:48 2009 From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:17:48 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations References: Message-ID: <05E49E1B73394D4195A4A16999451774@wink> Carl, There's a newsletter article on the Apogee website that discusses exactly that question. Use can use this link: http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter238.pdf I spent quite a bit of time answering that question for myself when using Rocksim on my Binder Thug. Short fat rockets really exaggerate the differences in the calculations. I found the Rocksim equations to be accurate. Cheers from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL/TRA/NAR L1 ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Hamilton To: NorthWest Rocketry Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:45 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a margin of stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" equations, but has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, or am I going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? Thanks. - Carl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Sat Dec 19 13:25:26 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:25:26 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00b101ca80f1$c8cdbac0$5a693040$@net> Carl - Issue #238 of the Apogee Newsletter covered this topic - (6/30/09) What is the difference between the RockSim Method and the Barrowman Equations? (1.2 MB pdf). The newsletter archive is at http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/newsletter_archive.asp and the specific issue is at http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter238.pdf - Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:46 PM To: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a margin of stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" equations, but has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, or am I going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? Thanks. - Carl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net Sat Dec 19 12:55:44 2009 From: Michael.Dennis42 at comcast.net (Michael Dennis) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:55:44 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <243C7C23-0465-4EAA-AD02-29B80AC59020@comcast.net> Rocksim takes into account that the motor is getting lighter as it burns - barrowman does not. So more realistic! Sent from my BlackBerry On Dec 19, 2009, at 3:45 PM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are > compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a > margin of > stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" > equations, but > has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the > "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, > or am I > going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From robert.killen at yahoo.com Sat Dec 19 13:45:00 2009 From: robert.killen at yahoo.com (Robert Killen) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:45:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Photo Uploading on the NWR website In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <833246.16888.qm@web45302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello all! Just a note to tell you that there is now a simpler photo upload option on the new NWR website. ?In the Multimedia sidebar click "Upload Photos." ?You'll need this password - "nwrupload" - to get to the form. ?Once uploaded you can view your image on the "Recent Images" page (also in the Multimedia sidebar). A special thanks to Prez. Krausert for his dedication to making this site something exceptional. Enjoy!?? Robert Killen Robert KillenBranding Merchandisewww.brandingmerchandise.comrobert.killen at brandingmerchandise.com541.280.5270? --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Carl Hamilton wrote: From: Carl Hamilton Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations To: "NorthWest Rocketry" Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 12:45 PM Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a margin of stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" equations, but has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, or am I going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? Thanks. - Carl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Sat Dec 19 14:34:56 2009 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 14:34:56 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations References: <243C7C23-0465-4EAA-AD02-29B80AC59020@comcast.net> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B3003A8@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Maybe it's just the paranoia in me speaking, but I would tend to err on the conservative side...make my design such that the "less stable" of the two answers is still stable. Alternately, build a quick and dirty subscale model of the design and do the string swing test to confirm stability. If it's just a "fun rocket" then that would be one thing: but if you're talking about a big, expensive project or--heaven forbid--a certification project, then I would definitely err on the side of caution. All that being said, I learned something today reading all the responses to Carl's question. Thanks all for educating me a little more! Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Michael Dennis Sent: Sat 12/19/2009 12:55 PM To: Carl Hamilton Cc: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations Rocksim takes into account that the motor is getting lighter as it burns - barrowman does not. So more realistic! Sent from my BlackBerry On Dec 19, 2009, at 3:45 PM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are > compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a > margin of > stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" > equations, but > has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the > "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, > or am I > going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From carl at mousetrap.com Sat Dec 19 16:30:21 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:30:21 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations In-Reply-To: <00b101ca80f1$c8cdbac0$5a693040$@net> References: <00b101ca80f1$c8cdbac0$5a693040$@net> Message-ID: Thanks to Gary and Marty for the references to Apogee newsletter #238. Mr. Milligan certainly likes to hear himself type. Why it takes an 11 page PDF to cover what should take a few sentences is beyond me. To summarize, in RockSim, the "Barrowman stability equations" are actually the simplified equations published by Barrowman in 1970 that required only simple math to compute. The "RockSim stability equations" are closer to the original, non-simplified Barrow equations that were too hard to calculate by hand when they were published in 1966. - Carl On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Marty Weiser wrote: > Carl - Issue #238 of the Apogee Newsletter covered this topic - (6/30/09) > What is the difference between the RockSim Method and the Barrowman > Equations? (1.2 MB pdf). The newsletter archive is at > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/newsletter_archive.asp and the > specific issue is at > http://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter238.pdf - Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:46 PM > To: NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations > > Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are > compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a margin of > stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" equations, but > has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the > "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, or am I > going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From guentherchristopher at gmail.com Sat Dec 19 19:11:04 2009 From: guentherchristopher at gmail.com (Christopher Guenther) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:11:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carl I have always been fine with Rocksim but I have also made sure to stay 3.0 margin or better. On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are > compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a margin of > stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" equations, but > has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the > "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, or am I > going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Dec 19 20:17:59 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 20:17:59 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Multi-transition Rocket Message-ID: <577FAF4867844C6D9DB9B9614924E841@LaptopKrausert> Question. Has anyone ever built and flown a a multi-transion rocket? This is a 6" booster transitioned to a 4" mid section to a 2" upper. The 2" upper is 1/2 the overall rockets length. Drouge is in the mid, and main in the upper. I have already simmed the rocket, and realize the drag ratio is high. This would be flying inside the mach envelope. I'm not going to sound "oh it'l go mach." Likely could sit in the turbulent transition zone. My goal is to find a motor to transition fast or avoid the zone. I'm looking at the M1816. I'm not worried about the rocket. OK, yes I am. But structural it's all glassed. In the transition, even glass can get killed. But as stated, I'm trying to avoid or not get there. Rough, but at lift-off weight is 28 pounds. If mach happens it will be at 3-3.5 seconds. Just curious if anyone's done a multi-transition... and how did it go? Since I'm not staging, trying to determine if the added drag is worth it. I think I already know the extra drag answer. Why am I doing it? So far looks cool. But if I'm setting up for a mess, then I'll continue a different way. Cheers, Robert From winningstad at comcast.net Sun Dec 20 10:20:53 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:20:53 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00b801ca81a1$2d704290$8850c7b0$@net> Thugs work well at .62! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 7:11 PM To: Carl Hamilton Cc: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rocksim stability equations Carl I have always been fine with Rocksim but I have also made sure to stay 3.0 margin or better. On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > Does anybody know how reliable the "Rocksim" stability equations are > compared to Barrowman? I have a design in Rocksim 9 that has a margin of > stability of just over one caliber when using the "Rocksim" equations, but > has a near zero margin with the Barrowman equations. Can I trust the > "Rocksim" equations? Is it likely that my rocket will fly straight, or am I > going to scare the crap out of everyone on the flight line? > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From rwjcom at comcast.net Sun Dec 20 12:40:16 2009 From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:40:16 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question Message-ID: At the end of our last WAC meeting there were a number of interesting discussions going on at the same time regarding various projects that folks are working on. I thought I had overheard just enough of from some of those discussions about fin sizing and design to provide me with some good internet search terms that would get me to some good information that I was looking for. Alas, I was wrong about that. I thought I heard things like "fin/span ratio" and "root-to-span ratio" being used as if they were commonly used phrases of art that any moderately competent search engine would be able to use. I am amazed at how little I found as far as general guidelines and rules of thumb. Some mentions of what the ratio's were for specific rockets, but nothing about what they should be and why. I am working on plans for my first scratch built self-designed rocket so I'd sure like to have some guidelines to refer to in order to help insure success. I am using Rocksim so I can get some information about the effect of changes in fin size and shape from it's modeling, but it does not provide the kind of understanding that comes from the collected wisdom of folks that have been down the path before. I am also learning the software which brings some additional uncertainty to the process. I am not 100% sure that I have everything buttoned up in Rocksim, so would like to validate against some outside sources. It sounds funny to me to hear myself say that some of the results that I am getting are counterintuitive, or just don't seem quite right to me. Funny because I am so new to all of this that I really don't have much of a basis on which to build an intuition for things to be running counter to. Funny how you read some websites, maybe a book, and a few catalogs and you start to think you actually understand something. But hey, I did pass that L2 test didn't I? Can anyone help out with better search terms than "rocket fin span root ratio design"? Or perhaps a URL? Best wishes to all for the Holidays and thanks in advance, Bob Jimerson From dmrandall at gmail.com Sun Dec 20 17:39:09 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:39:09 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Launch Reminder - Frost & Fire II - Sunday Dec 20 In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40912180609w35366c35l98c31394f34a6e29@mail.gmail.com> References: <6bc920e40912180609w35366c35l98c31394f34a6e29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40912201739v42d55793gcee2eeb934259415@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to everyone who made it out today for a great winter launch. In fact, it almost didn't feel like winter. We had blue sky, sunshine, not a drop of rain. We had about 20 people at the launch today. Mark Quinn and the up-stretched-up-scaled Quark and the venerable Mozzie made their regular appearance. Dave Walp brought along his son and a few friends (Ken) he's convinced to join the hobby. Ken had a nice set of scratch buiilt rockets, including one that managed to spit the nosecone then do a core sample. Jeff Mobley also invited a friend down to fly a nice little Estes kit, but the motor thrust ring was placed in the wrong spot - rendering the rocket unflyable until some rework could be done. Jeff did a nice job getting three flights out of his Estes Bull Pup. Peter Shurke and crew were down in force after 1pm to fly their test scaled down SLI rocket - with great success I might add! Scott Berfield strolled up with a box o' rocketry goodies and flew his Fat Boy and der Red Max with some in-field landings. I flew my Patriot on an E-18 to about 1000' with an off-field recovery to the North. My Madcow Phoenix finally did itself in. An F-10 with an marginal CG/CP resulted in a short flight to 100' and an arcing path into the soccer grass. After bouncing back into the air, it managed to do a crazy spin before landing on the ground, spitting the chute out and declaring itself done. It will now rest. Forever. Overall, lots of fun, a bunch of great flights, and a nice 1st Anniversary launch for The 60 Acres Series. Dave Randall On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:09 AM, Dave Randall wrote: > Sunday the 20th is the Second Annual Frost and Fire launch at 60 Acres > in Redmdond! ?GSE (ground support equipment) will be available - > controller, launch rods and a rail. ?Weather permitting, the launch > will be from 11 am - 4 pm. ?I have confirmation from Peter Shurke that > the Ingraham High students will be there giving their scaled down SLI > rocket a test-flight. > > Also, stop by Holden's Hobbies Open House on Saturday and pick up your > supplies, chat all things rocketry and get in the mood for Sunday's > Launch! > > Reminder, this site supports Class 1 rockets. > > More site info here: http://www.rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 > > -- > - Dave > -- - Dave From sb at berfield.com Sun Dec 20 23:21:58 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 23:21:58 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Frost & Fire 09 Pics Message-ID: <003901ca820e$48f02090$dad061b0$@com> Uploaded some images from today's launch at: http://picasaweb.google.com/sberfield/FrostAndFire2009# From Simpsonclark at aol.com Sun Dec 20 23:36:08 2009 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 02:36:08 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question Message-ID: ROOT-SPAN RATIO is the same as ASPECT RATIO, just a different phasing. The key feature is the aerodynamic relationship between the length of the fin (wing) and the root (chord). Generally speaking, the longer the wing in relation to the chord, the better the aerodynamics, (that is, the lower the Cd). There is, however, a big BUT. At the high mach speed of HPR's. the worse the flutter problems. Flutter is the dynamic instability of an airfoil as shock waves pass over it, a problem which starts at about mach .75 give or take a bit. Structural stiffness mitigates flutter, usually at a cost of thickness of the wing, although superior materials, such as carbon fiber, help. In rough terms, shorter wings have less flutter problem than longer wings as the flight speed increases, as can be deduced from observation of production aircraft, which tend to have shorter wings as they go up in top speed. At a professional level, designs try to anticipate harmonic response and provide dampening features such as multi-layer construction with varied elastic characteristics, but for us amateurs, think short span/long chord for mach 1.5+ designs. Search "flutter" for more detail. -Robert In a message dated 12/20/2009 1:41:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rwjcom at comcast.net writes: At the end of our last WAC meeting there were a number of interesting discussions going on at the same time regarding various projects that folks are working on. I thought I had overheard just enough of from some of those discussions about fin sizing and design to provide me with some good internet search terms that would get me to some good information that I was looking for. Alas, I was wrong about that. I thought I heard things like "fin/span ratio" and "root-to-span ratio" being used as if they were commonly used phrases of art that any moderately competent search engine would be able to use. I am amazed at how little I found as far as general guidelines and rules of thumb. Some mentions of what the ratio's were for specific rockets, but nothing about what they should be and why. I am working on plans for my first scratch built self-designed rocket so I'd sure like to have some guidelines to refer to in order to help insure success. I am using Rocksim so I can get some information about the effect of changes in fin size and shape from it's modeling, but it does not provide the kind of understanding that comes from the collected wisdom of folks that have been down the path before. I am also learning the software which brings some additional uncertainty to the process. I am not 100% sure that I have everything buttoned up in Rocksim, so would like to validate against some outside sources. It sounds funny to me to hear myself say that some of the results that I am getting are counterintuitive, or just don't seem quite right to me. Funny because I am so new to all of this that I really don't have much of a basis on which to build an intuition for things to be running counter to. Funny how you read some websites, maybe a book, and a few catalogs and you start to think you actually understand something. But hey, I did pass that L2 test didn't I? Can anyone help out with better search terms than "rocket fin span root ratio design"? Or perhaps a URL? Best wishes to all for the Holidays and thanks in advance, Bob Jimerson _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From winningstad at comcast.net Mon Dec 21 01:14:22 2009 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis S Winningstad) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 01:14:22 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01af01ca821d$fc7b1e30$f5715a90$@net> No it isn't! If tip is shorter than the root... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Simpsonclark at aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:36 PM To: rwjcom at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question ROOT-SPAN RATIO is the same as ASPECT RATIO, just a different phasing. The key feature is the aerodynamic relationship between the length of the fin (wing) and the root (chord). Generally speaking, the longer the wing in relation to the chord, the better the aerodynamics, (that is, the lower the Cd). There is, however, a big BUT. At the high mach speed of HPR's. the worse the flutter problems. Flutter is the dynamic instability of an airfoil as shock waves pass over it, a problem which starts at about mach .75 give or take a bit. Structural stiffness mitigates flutter, usually at a cost of thickness of the wing, although superior materials, such as carbon fiber, help. In rough terms, shorter wings have less flutter problem than longer wings as the flight speed increases, as can be deduced from observation of production aircraft, which tend to have shorter wings as they go up in top speed. At a professional level, designs try to anticipate harmonic response and provide dampening features such as multi-layer construction with varied elastic characteristics, but for us amateurs, think short span/long chord for mach 1.5+ designs. Search "flutter" for more detail. -Robert In a message dated 12/20/2009 1:41:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rwjcom at comcast.net writes: At the end of our last WAC meeting there were a number of interesting discussions going on at the same time regarding various projects that folks are working on. I thought I had overheard just enough of from some of those discussions about fin sizing and design to provide me with some good internet search terms that would get me to some good information that I was looking for. Alas, I was wrong about that. I thought I heard things like "fin/span ratio" and "root-to-span ratio" being used as if they were commonly used phrases of art that any moderately competent search engine would be able to use. I am amazed at how little I found as far as general guidelines and rules of thumb. Some mentions of what the ratio's were for specific rockets, but nothing about what they should be and why. I am working on plans for my first scratch built self-designed rocket so I'd sure like to have some guidelines to refer to in order to help insure success. I am using Rocksim so I can get some information about the effect of changes in fin size and shape from it's modeling, but it does not provide the kind of understanding that comes from the collected wisdom of folks that have been down the path before. I am also learning the software which brings some additional uncertainty to the process. I am not 100% sure that I have everything buttoned up in Rocksim, so would like to validate against some outside sources. It sounds funny to me to hear myself say that some of the results that I am getting are counterintuitive, or just don't seem quite right to me. Funny because I am so new to all of this that I really don't have much of a basis on which to build an intuition for things to be running counter to. Funny how you read some websites, maybe a book, and a few catalogs and you start to think you actually understand something. But hey, I did pass that L2 test didn't I? Can anyone help out with better search terms than "rocket fin span root ratio design"? Or perhaps a URL? Best wishes to all for the Holidays and thanks in advance, Bob Jimerson _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From vonrang at yahoo.com Mon Dec 21 05:26:05 2009 From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 05:26:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw:Erik Gates Passed Away Message-ID: <94748.2711.qm@web52203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: Charlie Cox Subject: Re: [ROCKETS] Erik Gates... To: rockets at googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:48 PM Not a car accident.? Fell through a skylight at work. On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 8:45 PM, SpartaChris wrote: Just got word on Roc Chat that Erik Gates passed away today due to a car accident. No details on what happened yet.. -- -Chris TRA # 10762 L3 12" Talon on a P build: ROL: http://www.rocketryonline.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=950 TRF: http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=3797 Special thanks to our sponsors! Ecology Auto Parts- www.ecoparts.com Trading Addicts- www.tradingaddicts.com Stickershock- www.stickershock23.com Interested in being a sponsor? Contact me direct! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rockets" group. To post to this group, send email to rockets at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rockets+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rockets?hl=en. -- "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -- Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775 --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rockets" group. To post to this group, send email to rockets at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rockets+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rockets?hl=en. From arrsales at cox.net Mon Dec 21 05:41:53 2009 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:41:53 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw:Erik Gates Passed Away In-Reply-To: <94748.2711.qm@web52203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <82.DE.13096.52B7F2B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Oh no!! Horrible news.. Huge loss to have one of the of the original movers and shakers of the hobby. It was the extremeness of the Gates Brothers' projects that mesmerized me that a hobby like this even existed. Their onboard videos and giant projects got me into the hobby back in '01. He will be missed. My condolences to his brother Dirk and the rest of his family. :-( Randy -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Sam Grado Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:26 AM To: PVC Motor Rockets; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Fw:Erik Gates Passed Away From: Charlie Cox Subject: Re: [ROCKETS] Erik Gates... To: rockets at googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 11:48 PM Not a car accident.? Fell through a skylight at work. On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 8:45 PM, SpartaChris wrote: Just got word on Roc Chat that Erik Gates passed away today due to a car accident. No details on what happened yet.. -- -Chris TRA # 10762 L3 12" Talon on a P build: ROL: http://www.rocketryonline.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=950 TRF: http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=3797 Special thanks to our sponsors! Ecology Auto Parts- www.ecoparts.com Trading Addicts- www.tradingaddicts.com Stickershock- www.stickershock23.com Interested in being a sponsor? Contact me direct! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rockets" group. To post to this group, send email to rockets at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rockets+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rockets?hl=en. -- "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -- Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775 --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rockets" group. To post to this group, send email to rockets at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rockets+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rockets?hl=en. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From KHarms at olypen.com Mon Dec 21 06:33:01 2009 From: KHarms at olypen.com (Kimberly Harms) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:33:01 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Not rockets, but the solar system none the less Message-ID: <003b01ca824a$7ff8c100$7fea4300$@com> Today at 9:47 AM Pacific time (21-Dec-2009 17:47 UTC) the Winter Solstice happens. Today winter arrives and we have the shortest day of the year. Please join me it celebrating the meaning of this season and welcome the return to longer days. Here is a little something you may not know about winter in the ancient world. Persephone is the goddess of the underworld in Greek mythology. She is the daughter of Zeus and Demeter, goddess of the harvest. Persephone was such a beautiful young woman that everyone loved her, even Hades wanted her for himself. One day, when she was collecting flowers on the plain of Enna, the earth suddenly opened and Hades rose up from the gap and abducted her. None but Zeus, and the all-seeing sun, Helios, had noticed it. Broken-hearted, Demeter wandered the earth, looking for her daughter until Helios revealed what had happened. Demeter was so angry that she withdrew herself in loneliness, and the earth ceased to be fertile. Knowing this could not continue much longer, Zeus sent Hermes down to Hades to make him release Persephone. Hades grudgingly agreed, but before she went back he gave Persephone a pomegranate. When she later ate of it, it bound her to underworld forever and she had to stay there one-third of the year. The other months she stayed with her mother. When Persephone was in Hades, Demeter refused to let anything grow and winter began. This myth is a symbol of the budding and dying of nature. And finally, something about why we decorate trees and give gifts this time of year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia Happy Holidays to all ! Kimberly Harms From clappfamily at comcast.net Mon Dec 21 08:54:33 2009 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (ClappFamily) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:54:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Erik Gates - News Story Message-ID: <8F82AD4CE7B24E768EB74D5A27D2DEFF@D8M6PR71> http://www.vcstar.com/news/2009/dec/21/worker-who-died-in-fall-in-newbury-park/ From rnech at yahoo.com Mon Dec 21 08:56:08 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:56:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT]Not rockets, but the solar system none the less In-Reply-To: <003b01ca824a$7ff8c100$7fea4300$@com> Message-ID: <886331.94983.qm@web111416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> And in three days after Solstice the Sun will be be born again on the 25th (or this time the 24th). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice Explanations for parallel traditions Symbolic Since the event is seen as the reversal of the Sun's ebbing presence in the sky, concepts of the birth or rebirth of sun gods have been common and, in cultures using winter solstitially based cyclic calendars, the year as reborn has been celebrated with regard to life-death-rebirth deities or new beginnings such as Hogmanay's redding, a New Year cleaning tradition. In Greek mythology, the gods and goddesses met on the winter and summer solstice, and Hades was permitted on Mount Olympus. Also reversal is another usual theme as in Saturnalia's slave and master reversals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree The Origins of the Christmas Tree The ancient pagans, Druids, Egyptians, Chinese, and Hebrews celebrated the Winter Solstice, (Dec. 21st), the day of the year that the Sun begins its ascent in the sky thereby ushering a fertile time of planting and bountiful harvests. Hence, the evergreen tree represented eternal life and the promise of replenishment during the cold winter solstice[citation needed]. Apples and other fruit were hung upon the tree to represent the plentiful food to come. Candles were lighted to symbolize the warmth and brightness of the sun. While the Christmas tree is generally associated with Christ, it predates this religious figure by many centuries. In the Chaldean custom, Tammuz, son of the sun god Nimrod and the virgin mother Semiramus, was known as Zero-Ashta, "The seed of the woman," and also Ignigena, or "born of the fire".[citation needed] At the time of the winter solstice, the past sun god would die, his branches stripped from him - and one piece, the seed, would enter the fire on "Mother-night" as a log.[citation needed] The next morning, the new triumphant sun god was born from the fire as a tree, the "Branch of God", who was celebrated for bringing divine gifts to men.[citation needed] "In Egypt that tree was the palm-tree; in Rome it was the fir; the palm-tree denoting the Pagan Messiah, as Baal-Tamar, the fir referring to him as Baal-Berith. The mother of Adonis (Dionysus, Tammuz), the Sun-God and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth her divine son. If the mother was a tree, the son must have been recognised as the "Man the branch." Hislop, The Two Babylons[broken citation] After the beginning of the New Year, January 1, the Pagans would take the chopped decorated Christmas tree down and burn the "Yule" log in remembrance of the past year. They would rejoice in song and dance for the goals that have been completed and in jubilation for the coming of the Spring and life. Furthermore, New Year's resolutions were constructed at a later date from the Pagans setting of the goals. [2] --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Kimberly Harms wrote: > From: Kimberly Harms > Subject: [RocketsNW] Not rockets, but the solar system none the less > To: "NWR" > Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 6:33 AM > Today at 9:47 AM Pacific time > (21-Dec-2009 17:47 UTC) the Winter Solstice happens.? > Today > winter arrives and we have the shortest day of the year. > > Please join me it celebrating the meaning of this season > and welcome the return to longer > days. > > > Here is a little something you may not know about winter in > the ancient world. > > Persephone is the goddess of the underworld in Greek > mythology. She is the daughter of > Zeus and Demeter, goddess of the harvest. Persephone was > such a beautiful young woman that > everyone loved her, even Hades wanted her for himself. One > day, when she was collecting > flowers on the plain of Enna, the earth suddenly opened and > Hades rose up from the gap and > abducted her. None but Zeus, and the all-seeing sun, > Helios, had noticed it. > > Broken-hearted, Demeter wandered the earth, looking for her > daughter until Helios revealed > what had happened. Demeter was so angry that she withdrew > herself in loneliness, and the > earth ceased to be fertile. Knowing this could not continue > much longer, Zeus sent Hermes > down to Hades to make him release Persephone. Hades > grudgingly agreed, but before she went > back he gave Persephone a pomegranate. When she later ate > of it, it bound her to > underworld forever and she had to stay there one-third of > the year. The other months she > stayed with her mother. When Persephone was in Hades, > Demeter refused to let anything grow > and winter began. This myth is a symbol of the budding and > dying of nature. > > > And finally, something about why we decorate trees and give > gifts this time of year. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia > > > Happy Holidays to all ! > > Kimberly Harms > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > From jhadv at pacifier.com Mon Dec 21 08:38:59 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:38:59 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [SPAM] Rockets Digest, Vol 23, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20091221083250.03343370@mail.iinet.com> "ROOT-SPAN RATIO is the same as ASPECT RATIO" I think that's in error. I believe the aspect ratio or also referred to as the fineness ratio is the length of the rocket to the diameter of the rocket. As far as the fins go and the root, span and semi-span ratios it all depends. Primarily it depends on how fast this rocket is going to be flying. The faster it goes the less fin surface it requires. However if you put fins on it for a large motor and then decide to fly a small motor that doesn't work very well if there is any material body lift. Conversely if you put big fins on it and flay a fast motor then it loses altitude because of increased drag. I solve the problem by building dual deploy rockets and then taking the top section and putting it on different boosters. I have one booster of 38-240 and 38-360, another for 38-480 and 38-600 and the big one for 38-720, 38-1080 and the CTI 6GXL. From carl at mousetrap.com Mon Dec 21 09:54:39 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:54:39 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob - If you haven't already done so, you might want to pick up a copy of the "Handbook of Model Rocketry". It's a pretty good read and does a good job (IMO) of covering the basics of aerodynamics for us non-aeronautics engineers, including descriptions of various fin shapes. - Carl On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Bob Jimerson wrote: > At the end of our last WAC meeting there were a number of interesting > discussions going on at the same time regarding various projects that folks > are working on. I thought I had overheard just enough of from some of those > discussions about fin sizing and design to provide me with some good > internet search terms that would get me to some good information that I was > looking for. Alas, I was wrong about that. > > I thought I heard things like "fin/span ratio" and "root-to-span ratio" > being used as if they were commonly used phrases of art that any moderately > competent search engine would be able to use. I am amazed at how little I > found as far as general guidelines and rules of thumb. Some mentions of > what the ratio's were for specific rockets, but nothing about what they > should be and why. > > I am working on plans for my first scratch built self-designed rocket so > I'd sure like to have some guidelines to refer to in order to help insure > success. I am using Rocksim so I can get some information about the effect > of changes in fin size and shape from it's modeling, but it does not provide > the kind of understanding that comes from the collected wisdom of folks that > have been down the path before. > > I am also learning the software which brings some additional uncertainty to > the process. I am not 100% sure that I have everything buttoned up in > Rocksim, so would like to validate against some outside sources. > > It sounds funny to me to hear myself say that some of the results that I am > getting are counterintuitive, or just don't seem quite right to me. Funny > because I am so new to all of this that I really don't have much of a basis > on which to build an intuition for things to be running counter to. Funny > how you read some websites, maybe a book, and a few catalogs and you start > to think you actually understand something. But hey, I did pass that L2 > test didn't I? > > > Can anyone help out with better search terms than "rocket fin span root > ratio design"? Or perhaps a URL? > > > Best wishes to all for the Holidays and thanks in advance, > > > Bob Jimerson > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From k2tsai at gmail.com Mon Dec 21 09:57:05 2009 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:57:05 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 23, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7816cff0912210957q18a7adcbk354fe8b801686442@mail.gmail.com> Was a great day, and I'm really happy to have met so many of you. Just a couple comments, Dave Walp's son Ian convinced my son Alex to join. For myself (Ken), I'm getting back in after a ~30 year absence. Truly a wonderful experience seeing everything that is now possible in modern rocketry... Helps having more disposable income, also. I also want to give a shout out to Blue Tube. The core sample that Dave mentioned was a scratch built, heavily modified version of the Estes Blue Bird Zero. The Kevlar leader snapped (so much for using 100lb test) leading to the core. However, this bird was built using standard BT-55 tube (to maintain the original dimensions, mostly) slid around Blue Tube 29mm as a full length reinforcement/motor mount. Yes, it's a Blue Bird Zero that will fly on a 29mm motor... hehehe... Anyways, aside from the ~8-10" of turf from the core sample, the body is totally undamaged! New nose cone, scrape the turf out, and we'll be ready to fly again! Cheers to Blue Tube, and also a new way to aerate your lawn. Cheers, - Ken ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:39:09 -0800 > From: Dave Randall > To: Rockets NW list > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Launch Reminder - Frost & Fire II - Sunday > Dec 20 > Message-ID: > <6bc920e40912201739v42d55793gcee2eeb934259415 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Thanks to everyone who made it out today for a great winter launch. > In fact, it almost didn't feel like winter. We had blue sky, > sunshine, not a drop of rain. > > We had about 20 people at the launch today. Mark Quinn and the > up-stretched-up-scaled Quark and the venerable Mozzie made their > regular appearance. Dave Walp brought along his son and a few friends > (Ken) he's convinced to join the hobby. Ken had a nice set of scratch > buiilt rockets, including one that managed to spit the nosecone then > do a core sample. Jeff Mobley also invited a friend down to fly a > nice little Estes kit, but the motor thrust ring was placed in the > wrong spot - rendering the rocket unflyable until some rework could be > done. Jeff did a nice job getting three flights out of his Estes Bull > Pup. Peter Shurke and crew were down in force after 1pm to fly their > test scaled down SLI rocket - with great success I might add! Scott > Berfield strolled up with a box o' rocketry goodies and flew his Fat > Boy and der Red Max with some in-field landings. I flew my Patriot on > an E-18 to about 1000' with an off-field recovery to the North. My > Madcow Phoenix finally did itself in. An F-10 with an marginal CG/CP > resulted in a short flight to 100' and an arcing path into the soccer > grass. After bouncing back into the air, it managed to do a crazy > spin before landing on the ground, spitting the chute out and > declaring itself done. It will now rest. Forever. > > Overall, lots of fun, a bunch of great flights, and a nice 1st > Anniversary launch for The 60 Acres Series. > > Dave Randall > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:09 AM, Dave Randall wrote: > > Sunday the 20th is the Second Annual Frost and Fire launch at 60 Acres > > in Redmdond! ?GSE (ground support equipment) will be available - > > controller, launch rods and a rail. ?Weather permitting, the launch > > will be from 11 am - 4 pm. ?I have confirmation from Peter Shurke that > > the Ingraham High students will be there giving their scaled down SLI > > rocket a test-flight. > > > > Also, stop by Holden's Hobbies Open House on Saturday and pick up your > > supplies, chat all things rocketry and get in the mood for Sunday's > > Launch! > > > > Reminder, this site supports Class 1 rockets. > > > > More site info here: http://www.rocketsnw.com/?page_id=545 > > > > -- > > - Dave > > > From adrian.l.carbine at gmail.com Mon Dec 21 10:42:50 2009 From: adrian.l.carbine at gmail.com (Adrian L Carbine) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 10:42:50 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One easy way to observe the relationship between aspect ratio and drag is to build a rocket in Rocksim with various aspect ratios and see how the Cd changes. You can also see the difference in simulated altitude, with all other design variables held constant. For example, try out a square fin with a 2" span and 12" root compared to a 12" span and a 2" root. The latter theoretically gets more altitude. As was said before, this ignores fin flutter, which Rocksim doesn't calculate. The latter rocket design would in reality shed its fins quickly! FinSim, if you can find an old copy, models the fin as a spring and mass model with improved accuracy, but in my experience it is more effective in showing you the principle than accurately predicting real-life performance. --- Adrian On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote: > Bob - > > If you haven't already done so, you might want to pick up a copy of the > "Handbook of Model Rocketry". It's a pretty good read and does a good job > (IMO) of covering the basics of aerodynamics for us non-aeronautics > engineers, including descriptions of various fin shapes. > > - Carl > > On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Bob Jimerson wrote: > > > At the end of our last WAC meeting there were a number of interesting > > discussions going on at the same time regarding various projects that > folks > > are working on. I thought I had overheard just enough of from some of > those > > discussions about fin sizing and design to provide me with some good > > internet search terms that would get me to some good information that I > was > > looking for. Alas, I was wrong about that. > > > > I thought I heard things like "fin/span ratio" and "root-to-span ratio" > > being used as if they were commonly used phrases of art that any > moderately > > competent search engine would be able to use. I am amazed at how little > I > > found as far as general guidelines and rules of thumb. Some mentions of > > what the ratio's were for specific rockets, but nothing about what they > > should be and why. > > > > I am working on plans for my first scratch built self-designed rocket so > > I'd sure like to have some guidelines to refer to in order to help insure > > success. I am using Rocksim so I can get some information about the > effect > > of changes in fin size and shape from it's modeling, but it does not > provide > > the kind of understanding that comes from the collected wisdom of folks > that > > have been down the path before. > > > > I am also learning the software which brings some additional uncertainty > to > > the process. I am not 100% sure that I have everything buttoned up in > > Rocksim, so would like to validate against some outside sources. > > > > It sounds funny to me to hear myself say that some of the results that I > am > > getting are counterintuitive, or just don't seem quite right to me. > Funny > > because I am so new to all of this that I really don't have much of a > basis > > on which to build an intuition for things to be running counter to. > Funny > > how you read some websites, maybe a book, and a few catalogs and you > start > > to think you actually understand something. But hey, I did pass that L2 > > test didn't I? > > > > > > Can anyone help out with better search terms than "rocket fin span root > > ratio design"? Or perhaps a URL? > > > > > > Best wishes to all for the Holidays and thanks in advance, > > > > > > Bob Jimerson > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From ds at pacificrocketry.com Mon Dec 21 14:52:44 2009 From: ds at pacificrocketry.com (Denny Smith) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:52:44 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Tripoli Puget Sound (#41) - Nominations - REMINDER Message-ID: <006c01ca8290$4ee12580$eca37080$@com> Fellow rocketeers... This is your friendly reminder that we are currently holding nominations for Prefect and Secretary of Tripoli - Puget Sound (41). Nominations will close on Saturday, December 26th, so please take a moment and nominate some folks if you haven't already. Requirements and responsibilities are as follows: Prefect: 1. Must be at least 21 years old. 2. Must be a responsible person having been a member of Tripoli for at least 1 year. 3. Must be certified Level 2. 4. Will oversee the Prefecture's compliance with all TRA rules and regulations. 5. Will certify TRA members to Level 1 and Level 2. 6. Will administer Level 2 written tests as required. 7. Will be responsible for keeping TRA apprised of local organization activities as necessary. 8. Will be available to attend the majority of local launches. Secretary: 1. Must be a responsible person having been a member of Tripoli for at least 1 year. 2. Will assist the Prefect in carrying out the business of the Prefecture. 3. Will conduct an annual Prefect election. Please forward names of your nominations meeting the above requirements for the appropriate position to Andrew MacMillen at andrew at hawkfeather.com PLEASE REMEMBER TO PROVIDE YOUR TRA # with your nominations. Nominations will close Saturday, December 26th, with the election following immediately. Thank you, and happy holidays. Denny Smith Tripoli - Puget Sound (41) Secretary From rnech at yahoo.com Mon Dec 21 17:01:33 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:01:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <928020.37214.qm@web111403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Or you can purchase FinSim 4.0 for only $50! http://aerorocket.com/finsim.html Robert --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Adrian L Carbine wrote: > From: Adrian L Carbine > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question > To: "Carl Hamilton" > Cc: "Bob Jimerson" , rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 10:42 AM > One easy way to observe the > relationship between aspect ratio and drag is to > build a rocket in Rocksim with various aspect ratios and > see how the Cd > changes. You can also see the difference in simulated > altitude, with all > other design variables held constant. > > For example, try out a square fin with a 2" span and 12" > root compared to a > 12" span and a 2" root. The latter theoretically gets more > altitude. As was > said before, this ignores fin flutter, which Rocksim > doesn't calculate. The > latter rocket design would in reality shed its fins > quickly! FinSim, if you > can find an old copy, models the fin as a spring and mass > model with > improved accuracy, but in my experience it is more > effective in showing you > the principle than accurately predicting real-life > performance. > > --- Adrian > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Carl Hamilton > wrote: > > > Bob - > > > > If you haven't already done so, you might want to pick > up a copy of the > > "Handbook of Model Rocketry". It's a pretty good read > and does a good job > > (IMO) of covering the basics of aerodynamics for us > non-aeronautics > > engineers, including descriptions of various fin > shapes. > > > >? - Carl > > > > On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Bob Jimerson > wrote: > > > > > At the end of our last WAC meeting there were a > number of interesting > > > discussions going on at the same time regarding > various projects that > > folks > > > are working on.? I thought I had overheard > just enough of from some of > > those > > > discussions about fin sizing and design to > provide me with some good > > > internet search terms that would get me to some > good information that I > > was > > > looking for.? Alas, I was wrong about that. > > > > > > I thought I heard things like "fin/span ratio" > and "root-to-span ratio" > > > being used as if they were commonly used phrases > of art that any > > moderately > > > competent search engine would be able to > use.? I am amazed at how little > > I > > > found as far as general guidelines and rules of > thumb.? Some mentions of > > > what the ratio's were for specific rockets, but > nothing about what they > > > should be and why. > > > > > > I am working on plans for my first scratch built > self-designed rocket so > > > I'd sure like to have some guidelines to refer to > in order to help insure > > > success.? I am using Rocksim so I can get > some information about the > > effect > > > of changes in fin size and shape from it's > modeling, but it does not > > provide > > > the kind of understanding that comes from the > collected wisdom of folks > > that > > > have been down the path before. > > > > > > I am also learning the software which brings some > additional uncertainty > > to > > > the process.? I am not 100% sure that I have > everything buttoned up in > > > Rocksim, so would like to validate against some > outside sources. > > > > > > It sounds funny to me to hear myself say that > some of the results that I > > am > > > getting are counterintuitive, or just don't seem > quite right to me. > >? Funny > > > because I am so new to all of this that I really > don't have much of a > > basis > > > on which to build an intuition for things to be > running counter to. > >? Funny > > > how you read some websites, maybe a book, and a > few catalogs and you > > start > > > to think you actually understand something.? > But hey, I did pass that L2 > > > test didn't I? > > > > > > > > > Can anyone help out with better search terms than > "rocket fin span root > > > ratio design"? Or perhaps a URL? > > > > > > > > > Best wishes to all for the Holidays and thanks in > advance, > > > > > > > > > Bob Jimerson > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockets mailing list > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > From john_lyngdal at verizon.net Mon Dec 21 17:14:33 2009 From: john_lyngdal at verizon.net (John Lyngdal) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:14:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Super deals at Tammie's Hobby In-Reply-To: <006c01ca8290$4ee12580$eca37080$@com> References: <006c01ca8290$4ee12580$eca37080$@com> Message-ID: <000d01ca82a4$1f118610$5d349230$@net> I stopped by the store today and found that the store stock of Aerotech reloads were on sale now through 1/1/10 at 30% MSRP. There was a huge selection of 29mm and 38mm HPR reloads( even after I checked out). John From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Mon Dec 21 17:58:29 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:58:29 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00de01ca82aa$4657f0a0$d307d1e0$@net> Bob, There have been quite a few good comments regarding your post, but I am not sure if you got the info you need for your design work. Based upon what I have seen for supersonic HPR here are some general observations: - The root is typically 2 - 3 times as long as the tip - The semispan (root to tip) is generally 1/2 to 1 times the root length. Longer semispan is what really increases stability, but it also increases flutter. - The tip is parallel to the root - The sweep angle is normally 45 - 70 degrees - The back edge is often swept forward a bit (probably to protect from hard landings more than anything) - Fins are often tapered from the root to the tip (sometimes just from tip-to-tip fiberglassing, sometimes significantly) - Fins are sometimes tapered along their length so they are thickest in the middle (think Nike Smoke fins) - Aesthetics are quite important to most builders unless you are trying for every bit of performance. Even then, a good looking fin is often among the most efficient. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bob Jimerson Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 12:40 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question At the end of our last WAC meeting there were a number of interesting discussions going on at the same time regarding various projects that folks are working on. I thought I had overheard just enough of from some of those discussions about fin sizing and design to provide me with some good internet search terms that would get me to some good information that I was looking for. Alas, I was wrong about that. I thought I heard things like "fin/span ratio" and "root-to-span ratio" being used as if they were commonly used phrases of art that any moderately competent search engine would be able to use. I am amazed at how little I found as far as general guidelines and rules of thumb. Some mentions of what the ratio's were for specific rockets, but nothing about what they should be and why. I am working on plans for my first scratch built self-designed rocket so I'd sure like to have some guidelines to refer to in order to help insure success. I am using Rocksim so I can get some information about the effect of changes in fin size and shape from it's modeling, but it does not provide the kind of understanding that comes from the collected wisdom of folks that have been down the path before. I am also learning the software which brings some additional uncertainty to the process. I am not 100% sure that I have everything buttoned up in Rocksim, so would like to validate against some outside sources. It sounds funny to me to hear myself say that some of the results that I am getting are counterintuitive, or just don't seem quite right to me. Funny because I am so new to all of this that I really don't have much of a basis on which to build an intuition for things to be running counter to. Funny how you read some websites, maybe a book, and a few catalogs and you start to think you actually understand something. But hey, I did pass that L2 test didn't I? Can anyone help out with better search terms than "rocket fin span root ratio design"? Or perhaps a URL? Best wishes to all for the Holidays and thanks in advance, Bob Jimerson _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From clappfamily at comcast.net Mon Dec 21 20:57:36 2009 From: clappfamily at comcast.net (ClappFamily) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:57:36 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Death of Erik Gates - Updated News Story References: <8F82AD4CE7B24E768EB74D5A27D2DEFF@D8M6PR71> Message-ID: <5395A2CE20DF44069478CC3EF16C4300@D8M6PR71> http://www.vcstar.com/news/2009/dec/21/worker-who-died-in-fall-in-newbury-park/ Sad... From Simpsonclark at aol.com Tue Dec 22 09:00:53 2009 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:00:53 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question Message-ID: Dennis is correct.. In the aerodynamic sense of the word, the aspect ratio is the square of the wingspan divided by the area of the wing, which accounts for taper better than the general definition of "ratio of the two characteristic dimensions". Aspect ratio is, however, useful as a search term. -Robert In a message dated 12/21/2009 2:14:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, winningstad at comcast.net writes: No it isn't! If tip is shorter than the root... Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Simpsonclark at aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:36 PM To: rwjcom at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question ROOT-SPAN RATIO is the same as ASPECT RATIO, just a different phasing. The key feature is the aerodynamic relationship between the length of the fin (wing) and the root (chord). Generally speaking, the longer the wing in relation to the chord, the better the aerodynamics, (that is, the lower the Cd). There is, however, a big BUT. At the high mach speed of HPR's. the worse the flutter problems. Flutter is the dynamic instability of an airfoil as shock waves pass over it, a problem which starts at about mach .75 give or take a bit. Structural stiffness mitigates flutter, usually at a cost of thickness of the wing, although superior materials, such as carbon fiber, help. In rough terms, shorter wings have less flutter problem than longer wings as the flight speed increases, as can be deduced from observation of production aircraft, which tend to have shorter wings as they go up in top speed. At a professional level, designs try to anticipate harmonic response and provide dampening features such as multi-layer construction with varied elastic characteristics, but for us amateurs, think short span/long chord for mach 1.5+ designs. Search "flutter" for more detail. -Robert In a message dated 12/20/2009 1:41:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rwjcom at comcast.net writes: At the end of our last WAC meeting there were a number of interesting discussions going on at the same time regarding various projects that folks are working on. I thought I had overheard just enough of from some of those discussions about fin sizing and design to provide me with some good internet search terms that would get me to some good information that I was looking for. Alas, I was wrong about that. I thought I heard things like "fin/span ratio" and "root-to-span ratio" being used as if they were commonly used phrases of art that any moderately competent search engine would be able to use. I am amazed at how little I found as far as general guidelines and rules of thumb. Some mentions of what the ratio's were for specific rockets, but nothing about what they should be and why. I am working on plans for my first scratch built self-designed rocket so I'd sure like to have some guidelines to refer to in order to help insure success. I am using Rocksim so I can get some information about the effect of changes in fin size and shape from it's modeling, but it does not provide the kind of understanding that comes from the collected wisdom of folks that have been down the path before. I am also learning the software which brings some additional uncertainty to the process. I am not 100% sure that I have everything buttoned up in Rocksim, so would like to validate against some outside sources. It sounds funny to me to hear myself say that some of the results that I am getting are counterintuitive, or just don't seem quite right to me. Funny because I am so new to all of this that I really don't have much of a basis on which to build an intuition for things to be running counter to. Funny how you read some websites, maybe a book, and a few catalogs and you start to think you actually understand something. But hey, I did pass that L2 test didn't I? Can anyone help out with better search terms than "rocket fin span root ratio design"? Or perhaps a URL? Best wishes to all for the Holidays and thanks in advance, Bob Jimerson _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From jhadv at pacifier.com Tue Dec 22 13:03:55 2009 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:03:55 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 23, Issue 36 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20091222130319.03284fb8@mail.iinet.com> At 12:00 PM 12/22/2009 -0800, you wrote: >Dennis is correct.. Dennis is always correct unless you get his started. From davewalp at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 17:16:25 2009 From: davewalp at comcast.net (David Walp) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:16:25 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction Message-ID: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net> Hi, Can anyone provide hints and pitfalls on how to build a Mylar Streamer? In particular how to attach chute lines to the Mylar - I seriously doubt that nylon streamer technique (aka sewing) will work. BTW, we are trying to the replace a 12" chute on a minimum diameter rocket with something way more visible. thanks, _dave_ From MartyWeiser at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 17:42:55 2009 From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty Weiser) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:42:55 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction In-Reply-To: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net> References: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net> Message-ID: <00c101ca8371$408e9670$c1abc350$@net> I generally just tape it to the recovery harness. I piece of duct tape about 2" long folded over the end of the streamer with the harness at the fold works well. Perhaps not the lightest and most compact, but I normally cut off the streamer after it has frayed to badly rather than have it come off the harness. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:16 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction Hi, Can anyone provide hints and pitfalls on how to build a Mylar Streamer? In particular how to attach chute lines to the Mylar - I seriously doubt that nylon streamer technique (aka sewing) will work. BTW, we are trying to the replace a 12" chute on a minimum diameter rocket with something way more visible. thanks, _dave_ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From john_lyngdal at verizon.net Tue Dec 22 18:24:33 2009 From: john_lyngdal at verizon.net (John Lyngdal) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:24:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction In-Reply-To: <00c101ca8371$408e9670$c1abc350$@net> References: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net> <00c101ca8371$408e9670$c1abc350$@net> Message-ID: <005201ca8377$11393870$33aba950$@net> 10:1 is the optimum aspect ratio, then "Z" fold and crease for optimum drag. http://www.nar.org/competition/plans/pdf/tbasd.pdf If you're thinking of using a streamer on a HPR rocket, I've watched Stu Barrett use them on 4" airframes as a drogue. It's very effective and the snapping sound generated by the steamer during descent is a very effective locating beacon. John -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Marty Weiser Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:43 PM To: 'David Walp'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction I generally just tape it to the recovery harness. I piece of duct tape about 2" long folded over the end of the streamer with the harness at the fold works well. Perhaps not the lightest and most compact, but I normally cut off the streamer after it has frayed to badly rather than have it come off the harness. Marty -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of David Walp Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:16 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction Hi, Can anyone provide hints and pitfalls on how to build a Mylar Streamer? In particular how to attach chute lines to the Mylar - I seriously doubt that nylon streamer technique (aka sewing) will work. BTW, we are trying to the replace a 12" chute on a minimum diameter rocket with something way more visible. thanks, _dave_ _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue Dec 22 19:21:31 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:21:31 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction In-Reply-To: <005201ca8377$11393870$33aba950$@net> References: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net> <00c101ca8371$408e9670$c1abc350$@net> <005201ca8377$11393870$33aba950$@net> Message-ID: <4B318CBB.8040706@hawkfeather.com> I've had the harness rip thru the Mylar with just folding & taping. I reinforce the Mylar with some strapping tape where it T's with the harness. If I'm not worried about max drag, I fold the streamer in half lengthwise repeatedly until I can roll it once into the BT diameter. Andrew. John Lyngdal wrote: > 10:1 is the optimum aspect ratio, then "Z" fold and crease for optimum drag. > > http://www.nar.org/competition/plans/pdf/tbasd.pdf > > If you're thinking of using a streamer on a HPR rocket, I've watched Stu > Barrett use them on 4" airframes as a drogue. It's very effective and the > snapping sound generated by the steamer during descent is a very effective > locating beacon. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Marty Weiser > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:43 PM > To: 'David Walp'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction > > I generally just tape it to the recovery harness. I piece of duct tape > about 2" long folded over the end of the streamer with the harness at the > fold works well. Perhaps not the lightest and most compact, but I normally > cut off the streamer after it has frayed to badly rather than have it come > off the harness. > > Marty > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of David Walp > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:16 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction > > Hi, > > > > Can anyone provide hints and pitfalls on how to build a Mylar Streamer? In > particular how to attach chute lines to the Mylar - I seriously doubt that > nylon streamer technique (aka sewing) will work. > > > > BTW, we are trying to the replace a 12" chute on a minimum diameter rocket > with something way more visible. > > > > thanks, > > _dave_ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Dec 22 19:22:08 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:22:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction In-Reply-To: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net> References: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net> Message-ID: <9b872be3b52415784f0daa5657574add.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Tape. Transferring strain to a thin film requires spreading the strain out over a large area. Hence, tape. Transferring strain from tape to a line requires tape that won't tear from the force focused along a line. Fiber reinforced tape will work as will using a loop or spiral in the line trapped between the tape and Mylar. And even a simple knot or two(don't overdo it)spaced along the line--you don't want the line to be able to work loose and pull out. Avoid like the plague holes in the tape or Mylar; these are "stress focusers" where rips can start. Test of course to make sure the tape is really sticky to the Mylar. And as John said, a 10:1 ratio Z-folded is optimum for drag. +McG+ > Hi, > > > > Can anyone provide hints and pitfalls on how to build a Mylar Streamer? > In > particular how to attach chute lines to the Mylar - I seriously doubt > that > nylon streamer technique (aka sewing) will work. > > > > BTW, we are trying to the replace a 12" chute on a minimum diameter rocket > with something way more visible. > > > > thanks, > > _dave_ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From rwjcom at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 21:37:33 2009 From: rwjcom at comcast.net (Bob Jimerson) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:37:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Fin span root ratio design question Message-ID: <94FC249B-509B-4EF4-9A20-D0B655F5EB69@comcast.net> Thanks everyone for your help with my question on fins. I increased the semi-span a bit to half the root length. The length of the fins (dimension perpendicular to the body tube) is now equal to the BT diameter. I'm not sure if I want to extend them any further since a few of the motors I've sim'd show a max speed of 1000 fps+. I am looking at this project as a multipurpose durable lab project. One of the projects on it's agenda is a fast flight on a high impulse motor. Don't want any long and wobbly fins for that flight. That change moved the CP back enough to get me a bit resonable stability with most motors. It still looks like I'll need to stuff 8-9 ounces of junk in the nose if I want to use one of the larger motors. That is down from 16 oz with the original fin design. So it the sim says that the rocket reaches a stable flight velocity well before the end of the launch rail, does that mean that it is stable, or is it still just marginally stable if that was it's condition at launch (assuming that the motor has not lost a lot of mass in the time it takes to get to the end of the rail and moved the CG forward). An especially punchy motor sim's at 145 fps at the end of a 8' rail, the software says stability is attained at 45fps. Does this velocity leaving the rail change the tolerance in the rule of thumb about CG being at least one caliber ahead of the CP? Not wanting to cut corners, but not wanting to throw a bunch of extra lead around either. Bob From vincesimoneau at msn.com Wed Dec 23 20:53:16 2009 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:53:16 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction In-Reply-To: <9b872be3b52415784f0daa5657574add.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net>, <9b872be3b52415784f0daa5657574add.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: How about using epoxy and acetate to create a secure strain transfer area...... Vin > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:22:08 -0800 > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > To: davewalp at comcast.net > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction > > Tape. > > Transferring strain to a thin film requires spreading the strain out over > a large area. Hence, tape. Transferring strain from tape to a line > requires tape that won't tear from the force focused along a line. Fiber > reinforced tape will work as will using a loop or spiral in the line > trapped between the tape and Mylar. And even a simple knot or two(don't > overdo it)spaced along the line--you don't want the line to be able to > work loose and pull out. Avoid like the plague holes in the tape or > Mylar; these are "stress focusers" where rips can start. > > Test of course to make sure the tape is really sticky to the Mylar. > > And as John said, a 10:1 ratio Z-folded is optimum for drag. > +McG+ > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Can anyone provide hints and pitfalls on how to build a Mylar Streamer? > > In > > particular how to attach chute lines to the Mylar - I seriously doubt > > that > > nylon streamer technique (aka sewing) will work. > > > > > > > > BTW, we are trying to the replace a 12" chute on a minimum diameter rocket > > with something way more visible. > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > _dave_ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ From vincesimoneau at msn.com Wed Dec 23 20:57:54 2009 From: vincesimoneau at msn.com (Vince Simoneau) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:57:54 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction In-Reply-To: References: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net>, , <9b872be3b52415784f0daa5657574add.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>, Message-ID: Sorry, . . . the acetate is used to "sandwich" the streamer and strain relief cord or an attach point for the cord. The actate is then removed >after the epoxy cures< . . .leaving the same smooth finish as "Sombody"s" rocket bodies.....Vin > From: vincesimoneau at msn.com > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; davewalp at comcast.net > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:53:16 -0800 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction > > > How about using epoxy and acetate to create a secure strain transfer area...... Vin > > > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:22:08 -0800 > > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > > To: davewalp at comcast.net > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction > > > > Tape. > > > > Transferring strain to a thin film requires spreading the strain out over > > a large area. Hence, tape. Transferring strain from tape to a line > > requires tape that won't tear from the force focused along a line. Fiber > > reinforced tape will work as will using a loop or spiral in the line > > trapped between the tape and Mylar. And even a simple knot or two(don't > > overdo it)spaced along the line--you don't want the line to be able to > > work loose and pull out. Avoid like the plague holes in the tape or > > Mylar; these are "stress focusers" where rips can start. > > > > Test of course to make sure the tape is really sticky to the Mylar. > > > > And as John said, a 10:1 ratio Z-folded is optimum for drag. > > +McG+ > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone provide hints and pitfalls on how to build a Mylar Streamer? > > > In > > > particular how to attach chute lines to the Mylar - I seriously doubt > > > that > > > nylon streamer technique (aka sewing) will work. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, we are trying to the replace a 12" chute on a minimum diameter rocket > > > with something way more visible. > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > _dave_ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockets mailing list > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ From dmrandall at gmail.com Thu Dec 24 08:04:31 2009 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:04:31 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction In-Reply-To: References: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net> <9b872be3b52415784f0daa5657574add.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40912240804m2d4e93c8oc5b5bd16d0881bb7@mail.gmail.com> Hmm, Not sure this "somebody" can visualize that fully. The acetate does leave a nice smooth finish, but I'm assuming in Dave's case, the streamer is still pretty narrow and I'm not sure how a smooth finish helps in this case. Seems more like a non-rigid attachment would be preferable. >From some TARC guidelines, here is an interesting method: To attach the Kevlar shock cord to the streamer, use a piece of thin steel wire (music wire) or nylon fishing line. Tape this about 1/2" from the end, parallel to the end (ie: 5" long wire for a 5" wide streamer). Fold the end over the wire and tape again. Then, punch a small hole just above the wire and reinforce the hole with strong tape. Tie the kevlar through the whole and around the internal wire with a couple of strong knots. Put a touch of CyA glue on the knot if you'd like to make sure it doesn't come off. In this case, the small wire acts as a tear resistant component. Another nice site with streamer construction info: http://www.psc473.org/naram51/contest/streamer.htm Guidelines copied from: http://stason.org/TULARC/recreation/model-rockets/9-4-f-Regarding-Streamers-Part-1.html On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Vince Simoneau wrote: > > Sorry, . . . the acetate is used to "sandwich" the streamer and strain relief cord or an attach point for the cord. The actate is then removed >after the epoxy cures< . . .leaving the same smooth finish as "Sombody"s" rocket bodies.....Vin > >> From: vincesimoneau at msn.com >> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; davewalp at comcast.net >> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:53:16 -0800 >> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction >> >> >> How about using epoxy and acetate to create a secure strain transfer area...... Vin >> >> > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:22:08 -0800 >> > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> > To: davewalp at comcast.net >> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction >> > >> > Tape. >> > >> > Transferring strain to a thin film requires spreading the strain out over >> > a large area. Hence, tape. Transferring strain from tape to a line >> > requires tape that won't tear from the force focused along a line. Fiber >> > reinforced tape will work as will using a loop or spiral in the line >> > trapped between the tape and Mylar. And even a simple knot or two(don't >> > overdo it)spaced along the line--you don't want the line to be able to >> > work loose and pull out. Avoid like the plague holes in the tape or >> > Mylar; these are "stress focusers" where rips can start. >> > >> > Test of course to make sure the tape is really sticky to the Mylar. >> > >> > And as John said, a 10:1 ratio Z-folded is optimum for drag. >> > +McG+ >> > >> > >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Can anyone provide hints and pitfalls on how to build a Mylar Streamer? >> > > In >> > > particular how to attach chute lines to the Mylar - I seriously doubt >> > > that >> > > nylon streamer technique (aka sewing) will work. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > BTW, we are trying to the replace a 12" chute on a minimum diameter rocket >> > > with something way more visible. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > thanks, >> > > >> > > _dave_ >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Rockets mailing list >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From dave at skagitlapidary.com Thu Dec 24 10:51:38 2009 From: dave at skagitlapidary.com (Dave Ebersole) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:51:38 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Guy Message-ID: <4B33B83A.7040106@skagitlapidary.com> Hi All, I wondered if there is anyone near the Skagit Valley on the list. Thanks, Dave Ebersole From angelawr at wrightholdings.com Thu Dec 24 12:44:15 2009 From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:44:15 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL. This is supposed to be fun, and exciting and something that a very special few share. If it is no longer fun for you than get out of it. There is no room in Rocketry for know-it-all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness. I am so sick and tired of people sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff. We are all on the same side here... jeesh. So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun. I have spoken!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story. You don't know me nor do you have any Idea what my background is. Another thing is that this forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that you so quickly display. Again not the venue for your style of remarks. On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the links > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > hassle." > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > talking about. Almost. In the hobby what all of three months and already > you know everything? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > shall do with you forthwith. Best of luck. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at blastzone.com Thu Dec 24 12:49:15 2009 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:49:15 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <29da01ca84da$8e51c160$aaf54420$@com> Um....i'm not sure why this 45+ day old thread was resurrected, but please put the stake back in its heart and let it lie... Thanks Greg Deputy List Admin > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:44 PM > To: Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 > > Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL. This is supposed to be fun, > and exciting and something that a very special few share. If it is no longer > fun for you than get out of it. There is no room in Rocketry for know-it- > all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness. I am so sick and tired of people > sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff. We are all on the same side > here... jeesh. > > So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what > is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun. I have spoken!! > > HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! > > Angela Dinese Wright > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Christopher Guenther > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM > To: jhadv at pacifier.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 > > With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I > was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited > until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on > NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story. You don't know me > nor do you have any Idea what my background is. Another thing is that this > forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that > you so quickly display. Again not the venue for your style of remarks. > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > > > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the links > > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > > hassle." > > > > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > > talking about. Almost. In the hobby what all of three months and already > > you know everything? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > > shall do with you forthwith. Best of luck. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From angelawr at wrightholdings.com Thu Dec 24 12:50:21 2009 From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:50:21 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <29da01ca84da$8e51c160$aaf54420$@com> References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> <29da01ca84da$8e51c160$aaf54420$@com> Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C016407@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> Yeah sorry I was gone for a month on vacation and just going through my emails and all this bickering just pisses me off. So I said something... Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:49 PM To: Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Um....i'm not sure why this 45+ day old thread was resurrected, but please put the stake back in its heart and let it lie... Thanks Greg Deputy List Admin > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:44 PM > To: Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 > > Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL. This is supposed to be fun, > and exciting and something that a very special few share. If it is no longer > fun for you than get out of it. There is no room in Rocketry for know-it- > all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness. I am so sick and tired of people > sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff. We are all on the same side > here... jeesh. > > So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what > is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun. I have spoken!! > > HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! > > Angela Dinese Wright > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On > Behalf Of Christopher Guenther > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM > To: jhadv at pacifier.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 > > With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I > was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited > until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on > NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story. You don't know me > nor do you have any Idea what my background is. Another thing is that this > forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that > you so quickly display. Again not the venue for your style of remarks. > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > > > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the links > > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > > hassle." > > > > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > > talking about. Almost. In the hobby what all of three months and already > > you know everything? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > > shall do with you forthwith. Best of luck. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From robert.krausert at intel.com Thu Dec 24 12:51:22 2009 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:51:22 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E53C13158@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Angela said it all extremely well. This is all for fun and a hobby. Building rockets on the dining room table is something that should be a joy. All the parts, epoxy, sandpaper, paint, fiberglass, etc. Finally taking your dining room table creation out to a launch and watching it fly is the joy. Take care all. Merry Christmas. May there be rocketry things under the tree for you. And Happy New Years. 2010 should be an amazing year. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:44 PM To: Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL. This is supposed to be fun, and exciting and something that a very special few share. If it is no longer fun for you than get out of it. There is no room in Rocketry for know-it-all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness. I am so sick and tired of people sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff. We are all on the same side here... jeesh. So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun. I have spoken!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story. You don't know me nor do you have any Idea what my background is. Another thing is that this forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that you so quickly display. Again not the venue for your style of remarks. On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the links > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > hassle." > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > talking about. Almost. In the hobby what all of three months and already > you know everything? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > shall do with you forthwith. Best of luck. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From angelawr at wrightholdings.com Thu Dec 24 12:53:13 2009 From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:53:13 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E53C13158@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E53C13158@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C016421@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> Thank you Robert and thanks for the "dining room" table dig, which touches my heart. :) I have a tear.... LOL Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: Krausert, Robert [mailto:robert.krausert at intel.com] Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:51 PM To: Angela "Red" Wright; Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Angela said it all extremely well. This is all for fun and a hobby. Building rockets on the dining room table is something that should be a joy. All the parts, epoxy, sandpaper, paint, fiberglass, etc. Finally taking your dining room table creation out to a launch and watching it fly is the joy. Take care all. Merry Christmas. May there be rocketry things under the tree for you. And Happy New Years. 2010 should be an amazing year. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:44 PM To: Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL. This is supposed to be fun, and exciting and something that a very special few share. If it is no longer fun for you than get out of it. There is no room in Rocketry for know-it-all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness. I am so sick and tired of people sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff. We are all on the same side here... jeesh. So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun. I have spoken!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story. You don't know me nor do you have any Idea what my background is. Another thing is that this forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that you so quickly display. Again not the venue for your style of remarks. On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the links > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > hassle." > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > talking about. Almost. In the hobby what all of three months and already > you know everything? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > shall do with you forthwith. Best of luck. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From seth.wallace at rocketmail.com Thu Dec 24 13:01:16 2009 From: seth.wallace at rocketmail.com (Seth Wallace) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:01:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C016421@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <239984.16085.qm@web65315.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> uhh, I actually epoxied something TO the dining room table once so I am no longer allowed to build in the house, its just me, the garage, and the space heater, although I have snuck some things into the mudroom to cure... SW --- On Thu, 12/24/09, Angela "Red" Wright wrote: From: Angela "Red" Wright Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 To: "Krausert, Robert" , "Christopher Guenther" , "jhadv at pacifier.com" Cc: "rockets at rocketsnw.com" Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 12:53 PM Thank you Robert and thanks for the "dining room" table dig, which touches my heart.? :)???I have a tear.... LOL Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: Krausert, Robert [mailto:robert.krausert at intel.com] Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:51 PM To: Angela "Red" Wright; Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Angela said it all extremely well. This is all for fun and a hobby. Building rockets on the dining room table is something that should be a joy. All the parts, epoxy, sandpaper, paint, fiberglass, etc. Finally taking your dining room table creation out to a launch and watching it fly is the joy. Take care all. Merry Christmas. May there be rocketry things under the tree for you. And Happy New Years. 2010 should be an amazing year. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:44 PM To: Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL.? This is supposed to be fun, and exciting and something that a very special few share.? If it is no longer fun for you than get out of it.? There is no room in Rocketry for know-it-all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness.? I am so sick and tired of people sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff.? We are all on the same side here... jeesh. So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun.? I have spoken!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story.? You don't know me nor do you have any Idea what my background is.? Another thing is that this forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that you so quickly display.? Again not the venue for your style of remarks. On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the links > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > hassle." > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > talking about.? Almost.? In the hobby what all of three months and already > you know everything?? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > shall do with you forthwith.? Best of luck. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From fred at azinger.com Thu Dec 24 13:08:21 2009 From: fred at azinger.com (Fred Azinger) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:08:21 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E53C13158@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E53C13158@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <00b301ca84dd$39bac220$ad304660$@com> Building on the dining room table is not a path to joy in my house.... The garage for sure! Have an awesome holiday everyone. Cherish your loved ones -- as our recent rocket community losses highlight, you never know what you've missed till they are gone. Happy, safe and healthy holidays to all. And may you find cool rocket toys under the tree...Chanukah bush....Festivus poll...whatever -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:51 PM To: Angela "Red" Wright; Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Angela said it all extremely well. This is all for fun and a hobby. Building rockets on the dining room table is something that should be a joy. All the parts, epoxy, sandpaper, paint, fiberglass, etc. Finally taking your dining room table creation out to a launch and watching it fly is the joy. Take care all. Merry Christmas. May there be rocketry things under the tree for you. And Happy New Years. 2010 should be an amazing year. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:44 PM To: Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL. This is supposed to be fun, and exciting and something that a very special few share. If it is no longer fun for you than get out of it. There is no room in Rocketry for know-it-all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness. I am so sick and tired of people sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff. We are all on the same side here... jeesh. So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun. I have spoken!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story. You don't know me nor do you have any Idea what my background is. Another thing is that this forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that you so quickly display. Again not the venue for your style of remarks. On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the links > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > hassle." > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > talking about. Almost. In the hobby what all of three months and already > you know everything? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > shall do with you forthwith. Best of luck. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From angelawr at wrightholdings.com Thu Dec 24 13:19:38 2009 From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 21:19:38 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <00b301ca84dd$39bac220$ad304660$@com> References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E53C13158@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> <00b301ca84dd$39bac220$ad304660$@com> Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C016459@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> Lets just put it this one, anyone who knows me and knows my home understands that as much as I love the hobby building on the dining room table IS NOT allowed. That is why we hav ea rocket Shop.. DUH! :) Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: Fred Azinger [mailto:fred at azinger.com] Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 1:08 PM To: 'Krausert, Robert'; Angela "Red" Wright; 'Christopher Guenther'; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Building on the dining room table is not a path to joy in my house.... The garage for sure! Have an awesome holiday everyone. Cherish your loved ones -- as our recent rocket community losses highlight, you never know what you've missed till they are gone. Happy, safe and healthy holidays to all. And may you find cool rocket toys under the tree...Chanukah bush....Festivus poll...whatever -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:51 PM To: Angela "Red" Wright; Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Angela said it all extremely well. This is all for fun and a hobby. Building rockets on the dining room table is something that should be a joy. All the parts, epoxy, sandpaper, paint, fiberglass, etc. Finally taking your dining room table creation out to a launch and watching it fly is the joy. Take care all. Merry Christmas. May there be rocketry things under the tree for you. And Happy New Years. 2010 should be an amazing year. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:44 PM To: Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL. This is supposed to be fun, and exciting and something that a very special few share. If it is no longer fun for you than get out of it. There is no room in Rocketry for know-it-all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness. I am so sick and tired of people sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff. We are all on the same side here... jeesh. So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun. I have spoken!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story. You don't know me nor do you have any Idea what my background is. Another thing is that this forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that you so quickly display. Again not the venue for your style of remarks. On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the links > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > hassle." > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > talking about. Almost. In the hobby what all of three months and already > you know everything? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > shall do with you forthwith. Best of luck. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From cpovercg at rocketmail.com Thu Dec 24 13:19:06 2009 From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com (Robert Braibish) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 21:19:06 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <00b301ca84dd$39bac220$ad304660$@com> References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E53C13158@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com><00b301ca84dd$39bac220$ad304660$@com> Message-ID: <64929143-1261689534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-914938673-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> No rocket woes but I learned my lesson while "eye-balling" a cut with a circular saw during a remodel. Oh boy. Hey, Merry Christmas everyone. I hope each of you has a safe and happy holiday and a prosperous new year. R. Braibish -----Original Message----- From: "Fred Azinger" Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:08:21 To: 'Krausert, Robert'; 'Angela \"Red\" Wright'; 'Christopher Guenther'; Cc: Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Building on the dining room table is not a path to joy in my house.... The garage for sure! Have an awesome holiday everyone. Cherish your loved ones -- as our recent rocket community losses highlight, you never know what you've missed till they are gone. Happy, safe and healthy holidays to all. And may you find cool rocket toys under the tree...Chanukah bush....Festivus poll...whatever -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:51 PM To: Angela "Red" Wright; Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Angela said it all extremely well. This is all for fun and a hobby. Building rockets on the dining room table is something that should be a joy. All the parts, epoxy, sandpaper, paint, fiberglass, etc. Finally taking your dining room table creation out to a launch and watching it fly is the joy. Take care all. Merry Christmas. May there be rocketry things under the tree for you. And Happy New Years. 2010 should be an amazing year. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:44 PM To: Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL. This is supposed to be fun, and exciting and something that a very special few share. If it is no longer fun for you than get out of it. There is no room in Rocketry for know-it-all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness. I am so sick and tired of people sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff. We are all on the same side here... jeesh. So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun. I have spoken!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! Angela Dinese Wright -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM To: jhadv at pacifier.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story. You don't know me nor do you have any Idea what my background is. Another thing is that this forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that you so quickly display. Again not the venue for your style of remarks. On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the links > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > hassle." > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > talking about. Almost. In the hobby what all of three months and already > you know everything? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > shall do with you forthwith. Best of luck. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Dec 24 14:21:15 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:21:15 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Guy References: <4B33B83A.7040106@skagitlapidary.com> Message-ID: <721A18E4A3614BD0B582C9B30BFE85DC@LaptopKrausert> Hi Dave, Are you new to the area, the list or rocketry? Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ebersole" To: Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:51 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] New Guy > Hi All, > I wondered if there is anyone near the Skagit Valley on the list. > Thanks, > Dave Ebersole > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bennightfam at hotmail.com Thu Dec 24 15:52:07 2009 From: bennightfam at hotmail.com (C Bennight) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:52:07 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 In-Reply-To: <64929143-1261689534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-914938673-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com> <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E53C13158@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com><00b301ca84dd$39bac220$ad304660$@com>, <64929143-1261689534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-914938673-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I love this hobby and thrill of watching your creation go up at extreme velocities and returning to earth safely. The sound of the motors and the smell of spent fuel, nothing quite like it. Merry Christmas to all and a prosperous and successful new year. Mike Bennight > To: fred at azinger.com; rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com; robert.krausert at intel.com; angelawr at wrightholdings.com; guentherchristopher at gmail.com; jhadv at pacifier.com > From: cpovercg at rocketmail.com > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 21:19:06 +0000 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 > > No rocket woes but I learned my lesson while "eye-balling" a cut with a circular saw during a remodel. Oh boy. > > Hey, Merry Christmas everyone. I hope each of you has a safe and happy holiday and a prosperous new year. > R. Braibish > -----Original Message----- > From: "Fred Azinger" > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:08:21 > To: 'Krausert, Robert'; 'Angela \"Red\" Wright'; 'Christopher Guenther'; > Cc: > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 > > Building on the dining room table is not a path to joy in my house.... > The garage for sure! > > Have an awesome holiday everyone. > Cherish your loved ones -- as our recent rocket community losses highlight, > you never know what you've missed till they are gone. > > Happy, safe and healthy holidays to all. > And may you find cool rocket toys under the tree...Chanukah bush....Festivus > poll...whatever > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Krausert, Robert > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:51 PM > To: Angela "Red" Wright; Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 > > Angela said it all extremely well. This is all for fun and a hobby. Building > rockets on the dining room table is something that should be a joy. All the > parts, epoxy, sandpaper, paint, fiberglass, etc. Finally taking your dining > room table creation out to a launch and watching it fly is the joy. > > Take care all. Merry Christmas. May there be rocketry things under the tree > for you. And Happy New Years. 2010 should be an amazing year. > > Cheers, > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Angela "Red" Wright > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:44 PM > To: Christopher Guenther; jhadv at pacifier.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 > > Ok here is my thought... everyone needs to CHILL. This is supposed to be > fun, and exciting and something that a very special few share. If it is no > longer fun for you than get out of it. There is no room in Rocketry for > know-it-all's, bad attitudes or downright rudeness. I am so sick and tired > of people sniping at each other over the stupidest stuff. We are all on the > same side here... jeesh. > > So let's all take a deep breath stop being so defensive and upset about what > is supposed to be a Hobby and let's just keep having fun. I have spoken!! > > HAPPY HOLIDAYS damn it!! > > Angela Dinese Wright > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Christopher Guenther > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:49 PM > To: jhadv at pacifier.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 > > With all due respect I have been building designing and flying LPR's since I > was 8 years old and if you want to know some of the details on why I waited > until recently to go high power I would suggest you read my Bio on > NorthwestRocketry but thats only about half the story. You don't know me > nor do you have any Idea what my background is. Another thing is that this > forum is no place for an attitude like that nor the insulting ignorance that > you so quickly display. Again not the venue for your style of remarks. > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > > > "Next time if you are looking for rocket related sites please use the > links > > page from the Northwestrocketry.com site and save yourself a lot of > > hassle." > > > > > > You know when you say that you almost sound like you know what you are > > talking about. Almost. In the hobby what all of three months and already > > you know everything? Spare me and just ignore everything I post like I > > shall do with you forthwith. Best of luck. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Dec 24 16:30:48 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:30:48 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC Annual Meeting January 7th 2010 Message-ID: The annual OregonRocketry 2010 meeting will be held on January 7th 2010. This year, the meeting is being held the first Thursday of the year due to availability of the meeting room. Meeting begins at 7:30pm in the backroom of Giovanni's restuarant. Giovanni's Restuarant 12390 SW Broadway, Beaverton Oregon 97005 (corner of Broadway and hall in downtown Beaverton) There's no agenda planned for this meeting. We'll review the 2010 board members elected and discuss the ballot measures either approved or declined. This should be a fun meeting. Throughout the meeting we'll be giving out prizes to those attending. Upon arriving make sure to get a ticket from me. That will put you in the drawings for some cool prizes. This meeting will also be a time to recognize those that helped in 2009, which includes trailer hauling. Join us Thursday January 7th 2010 at 7:30pm for the OregonRocketry annual meeting. Be sure to mail your membership & ballot by January 4th, or bring to the meeting. Board of Directors, try to arrive at 6:30pm so we can prepare for the meeting and count ballots. We'll see you there. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President From rod at whippetfield.com Thu Dec 24 18:00:52 2009 From: rod at whippetfield.com (Rod) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:00:52 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 22, Issue 64 References: <2798.76.115.45.22.1258258420.squirrel@webmail.iinet.com><3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0163EC@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com><0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E53C13158@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com><00b301ca84dd$39bac220$ad304660$@com>, <64929143-1261689534-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-914938673-@bda088.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: So what I want to know is, who's going to step up and be the first to launch a dining room table? Merry Christmas everyone! Rod From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Thu Dec 24 18:17:58 2009 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (robert grossfeld) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:17:58 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Season's Greetings....... Message-ID: I wish you all Season's Greetings for the Holiday season. I wish you all and your family the best and Happy New Year. May all your rockets fly straight, have calm winds and they are all found easily. Looking forward to 2010. Enjoy, Bob Grossfeld- Observatory Manager Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory POB 3533, Sunriver, OR. 97707 Ph. 541-598-4406 Fax 541-593-5207 Inspire present and future generations to cherish and understand our natural world. From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Dec 25 00:14:39 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:14:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40912240804m2d4e93c8oc5b5bd16d0881bb7@mail.gmail.com> References: <000101ca836d$8c6343b0$a529cb10$@net> <9b872be3b52415784f0daa5657574add.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <6bc920e40912240804m2d4e93c8oc5b5bd16d0881bb7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8d0873803e61c16bef1ab75937fb6838.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> I grasp the concept of the wire but I'd be a bit skittish about doing it that way. The first site referenced, http://www.psc473.org/naram51/contest/streamer.htm is much, much more along my philosophy. I don't like anything that can at all possibly get jammed in the BT at some angle--wire, rod, epoxy slab, whatever. And although reinforcing holes with appropriate tape can work well, personally I still avoid holes in thin plastic film if possible. Just my preference based mostly on little BT-5 rockets I've flown here on the family farm. Notice where the cord is attached to the streamer in the illustrations on the site above. This is to avoid having the shock cord compete with streamer material for diameter in the BT. You can cram in a bit more streamer while having the rolled/folded streamer function more like a piston, dragging the shock cord smoothly out behind it. In a tight fit--the usual case for competition rockets--having the shock cord going halfway up the streamer on the side just about guarantees the streamer will 'cone' as it moves up the tube. With the streamer attached at the bottom side edge of the roll you can even use a thin cardboard disc as a piston under the rolled streamer for more reliable deployment. But all this applies mostly to the small rockets using streamers as primary recovery. In a large rocket where the streamer is essentially just for visibility you can get away with a lot. +McG+ > Hmm, > > Not sure this "somebody" can visualize that fully. The acetate does > leave a nice smooth finish, but I'm assuming in Dave's case, the > streamer is still pretty narrow and I'm not sure how a smooth finish > helps in this case. Seems more like a non-rigid attachment would be > preferable. > > From some TARC guidelines, here is an interesting method: > > To attach the Kevlar shock cord to the streamer, use a piece of thin > steel wire (music wire) or nylon fishing line. Tape this about 1/2" > from the end, parallel to the end (ie: 5" long wire for a 5" wide > streamer). Fold the end over the wire and tape again. Then, punch a > small hole just above the wire and reinforce the hole with strong > tape. Tie the kevlar through the whole and around the internal wire > with a couple of strong knots. Put a touch of CyA glue on the knot if > you'd like to make sure it doesn't come off. > > In this case, the small wire acts as a tear resistant component. > > Another nice site with streamer construction info: > http://www.psc473.org/naram51/contest/streamer.htm > > Guidelines copied from: > http://stason.org/TULARC/recreation/model-rockets/9-4-f-Regarding-Streamers-Part-1.html > > > On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Vince Simoneau > wrote: >> >> Sorry, . . . the acetate is used to "sandwich" the streamer and strain >> relief cord or an attach point for the cord. The actate is then removed >> >after the epoxy cures< . . .leaving the same smooth finish as >> "Sombody"s" rocket bodies.....Vin >> >>> From: vincesimoneau at msn.com >>> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; davewalp at comcast.net >>> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:53:16 -0800 >>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction >>> >>> >>> How about using epoxy and acetate to create a secure strain transfer >>> area...... Vin >>> >>> > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:22:08 -0800 >>> > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>> > To: davewalp at comcast.net >>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mylar streamer construction >>> > >>> > Tape. >>> > >>> > Transferring strain to a thin film requires spreading the strain out >>> over >>> > a large area. Hence, tape. Transferring strain from tape to a line >>> > requires tape that won't tear from the force focused along a line. >>> Fiber >>> > reinforced tape will work as will using a loop or spiral in the line >>> > trapped between the tape and Mylar. And even a simple knot or >>> two(don't >>> > overdo it)spaced along the line--you don't want the line to be able >>> to >>> > work loose and pull out. Avoid like the plague holes in the tape or >>> > Mylar; these are "stress focusers" where rips can start. >>> > >>> > Test of course to make sure the tape is really sticky to the Mylar. >>> > >>> > And as John said, a 10:1 ratio Z-folded is optimum for drag. >>> > +McG+ >>> > >>> > >>> > > Hi, >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Can anyone provide hints and pitfalls on how to build a Mylar >>> Streamer? >>> > > In >>> > > particular how to attach chute lines to the Mylar - I seriously >>> doubt >>> > > that >>> > > nylon streamer technique (aka sewing) will work. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > BTW, we are trying to the replace a 12" chute on a minimum diameter >>> rocket >>> > > with something way more visible. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > thanks, >>> > > >>> > > _dave_ >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > Rockets mailing list >>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > -- > - Dave > From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Fri Dec 25 10:27:05 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:27:05 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Better Late Than Never - BALLS 2009 Photo website up! Message-ID: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF049A8C@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com> Here's this year's installment, enjoy!! http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/html/BALLS/BALLS2009.htm Cheers! Brad & Red From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Sat Dec 26 12:49:39 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:49:39 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRAPS election Message-ID: <4B3676E3.2090205@hawkfeather.com> The nominations are in for the 2010 Tripoli Puget Sound 41 (TRAPS) officers. They are: Brad Wright - Prefect Kent Newman - Secretary/Treasurer Denny Smith - Secretary/Treasurer If you are a current TRA member, please reply to me off list with your vote, *and* your TRA number. Voting will close on Thursday 12/31. Andrew. From rocketsrfun at msn.com Sat Dec 26 19:13:22 2009 From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 19:13:22 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC Annual Meeting January 7th 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are the ballots out? I never received one. Been with this club over 10 years, I pay my membership dues, even though I haven't flown in 3 years and I don't get a ballot.. What gives, do tell. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Krausert To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:30 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] OROC Annual Meeting January 7th 2010 The annual OregonRocketry 2010 meeting will be held on January 7th 2010. This year, the meeting is being held the first Thursday of the year due to availability of the meeting room. Meeting begins at 7:30pm in the backroom of Giovanni's restuarant. Giovanni's Restuarant 12390 SW Broadway, Beaverton Oregon 97005 (corner of Broadway and hall in downtown Beaverton) There's no agenda planned for this meeting. We'll review the 2010 board members elected and discuss the ballot measures either approved or declined. This should be a fun meeting. Throughout the meeting we'll be giving out prizes to those attending. Upon arriving make sure to get a ticket from me. That will put you in the drawings for some cool prizes. This meeting will also be a time to recognize those that helped in 2009, which includes trailer hauling. Join us Thursday January 7th 2010 at 7:30pm for the OregonRocketry annual meeting. Be sure to mail your membership & ballot by January 4th, or bring to the meeting. Board of Directors, try to arrive at 6:30pm so we can prepare for the meeting and count ballots. We'll see you there. Cheers, Robert OregonRocketry President _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From k2tsai at gmail.com Sun Dec 27 17:02:42 2009 From: k2tsai at gmail.com (Ken Tsai) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:02:42 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Lost Aerotech 18/20 casing Message-ID: <7816cff0912271702me3191f9n6346e0a43dcc339b@mail.gmail.com> Ended up going out to 60 Acres today with the Walp's for a launch. Great day with perfect skies and hardly any wind at all. We put up a total of 11 flights amongst us ranging from D through G. A flight on an 18/20 ejected the motor from an overly aggressive ejection event. If you happen to stumble across an 18/20 casing on the field, I wouldn't mind getting it back. Talk about needle in a haystack. Cheers, - Ken From rnech at yahoo.com Tue Dec 29 05:12:12 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 05:12:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] ATK Test-Fires Critical Crew Escape System Motor Message-ID: <592691.53787.qm@web111411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.floridatoday.com/content/blogs/space/2009/12/atk-test-fires-critical-crew-escape.shtml ATK Test-Fires Critical Crew Escape System Motor (excerpt) A company in on the development of the crew escape system for NASA's next-generation Ares I rocket and Orion spacecraft scored a ground test success this week, firing a full-scale attitude control motor at its facility in Elkton, Md. ATK officials said a preliminary look at data indicates that the Demonstration Motor 1 (DM-1) test was successful. Engineers now are analyzing the detailed results. This was the sixth in a series of ground tests of Orion's attitude control motor system, validating that the thruster system performs as designed, the company said. ATK's attitude control motor consists of a solid propellant gas generator, with eight proportional valves equally spaced around the circumference of the three-foot diameter motor, the company said in a news release. In combination, the valves can exert up to 7,000 pounds of steering force to the vehicle in any direction upon command from the crew module. The valves are controlled by a redundant power and control system. Video of static firing. http://www.floridatoday.com/section/VideoNetwork?bctid=57942186001 From kent.newman at comcast.net Tue Dec 29 11:04:33 2009 From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:04:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - January 9th Message-ID: <002501ca88b9$c274eb10$475ec130$@newman@comcast.net> Greetings all and a very Happy Holidays to everyone! This month's meeting will be held on Saturday, January 9th, at Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup, WA, at 7:00 PM. Meeting topics include: . Announcement of Club and Prefecture Officers . New business . FITS discussion - initial plans/marketing status/responsibilities . Club brochure review . Upscale AT Mustang status - Kent Newman . A review of different reloadable motor systems . Motor building clinic . Show and tell/general rocket banter It's a bit nippy out there - insulated pasties are the order of the day for you adventurers. Regards, Kent Newman From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue Dec 29 13:58:57 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:58:57 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] TRAPS election In-Reply-To: <4B3676E3.2090205@hawkfeather.com> References: <4B3676E3.2090205@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <4B3A7BA1.2080709@hawkfeather.com> Reminder: voting will close at the end of Thursday. We only have 14 votes so far, and I know there are more TRA members around. Andrew. Andrew MacMillen wrote: > The nominations are in for the 2010 Tripoli Puget Sound 41 (TRAPS) > officers. They are: > > Brad Wright - Prefect > Kent Newman - Secretary/Treasurer > Denny Smith - Secretary/Treasurer > > If you are a current TRA member, please reply to me off list with your > vote, *and* your TRA number. Voting will close on Thursday 12/31. > > Andrew. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From appusher at q.com Tue Dec 29 17:09:57 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:09:57 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Washington Aerospace Meeting - January 9th In-Reply-To: <002501ca88b9$c274eb10$475ec130$@newman@comcast.net> References: <002501ca88b9$c274eb10$475ec130$@newman@comcast.net> Message-ID: Sounds interesting. I was hoping for grass hula skirts. I'll bring some print outs of AT's new hardware if you think that works. So you have hardware in hand that's new? Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From: kent.newman at comcast.net To: members at washingtonaerospace.org Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:04:33 -0800 CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [WAC-Members] Washington Aerospace Meeting - January 9th Greetings all and a very Happy Holidays to everyone! This month?s meeting will be held on Saturday, January 9th, at Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup, WA, at 7:00 PM. Meeting topics include: ? Announcement of Club and Prefecture Officers ? New business ? FITS discussion ? initial plans/marketing status/responsibilities ? Club brochure review ? Upscale AT Mustang status ? Kent Newman ? A review of different reloadable motor systems ? Motor building clinic ? Show and tell/general rocket banter It?s a bit nippy out there ? insulated pasties are the order of the day for you adventurers. Regards, Kent Newman From carl at mousetrap.com Wed Dec 30 11:14:27 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:14:27 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength Message-ID: You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's recovery harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have also found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for people's experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love to hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or weak a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I never had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable information. Thanks. - Carl From carl at mousetrap.com Wed Dec 30 11:41:41 2009 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:41:41 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength Message-ID: Is there some easy way (i.e. for a non-materials engineer) to determine, roughly, how strong a bulk plate is going to be given a material, thickness, and diameter? Is there an easy way to determine how that strength will be effected by various holes drilled through the bulk plate? By strong, I mean, "How much force can be applied to the bulk plate through an attached U-bolt before it fails?" Is that shear strength? Thanks. - Cdarl From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 14:35:17 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:35:17 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength References: Message-ID: <52CF709ECA114C8288A914568E20FE4B@LaptopKrausert> Carl, Strength recommendation you've found sounds reasonable. For me I strive for 5 times or better the length. That is because of several factors. First one is as components separate, they begin to slow down. The further they separate the shock factor I believe is reduced. The second reason is backlash reflection actions that happen. A recovery harness too short once fully extended will spring back against the force. To avoid tangling or sending the nose cone through parachute lines can be mitigated with long recovery cords. Third is crashing booster and forward sections. During spring back, you risk the two rocket sections hitting each other. John Cox, one of my early mentors helped me learn some tricks. Before then I was lucky to have a recovery cord beyond the minimum to get the chute out. But tangle after tangle started causing me to ask why. Ever since that advice by John, I've used to longest recovery cord I can, but weight becomes a factor. So too much only adds weight you don't need. No matter what, if you deploy coming blastic, you are likely going to have damage. But if the strength is there, then you keep things safe for the viewers. I'd rather damage a rocket versus have it come apart and risk safety of others. One thing about using a long shock cord is during the recovery beginning. The first time I watch a 5x length length during ejection was scary. Seemed like something was wrong because of how far they separation was. Last couple of years, I've been using Kevlar pull tape. Light weight, very strong, and not prone to burning through. Many places online to get Kevlar lines. Or simply ask a utility company working near your home if they have an extra roll. While I like Kevlar. Nylon has "more" spring, and Kevlar is not. Shock at the separation will be higher/harder on components with Kevlar. While nylon has a little give. It's all about weight and personal choice. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:14 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's recovery > harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have also > found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material > should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for > people's > experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love > to > hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter > harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or > weak > a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a > 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have > problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I never > had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' > harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable > information. > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From raystoner99 at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 15:59:01 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:59:01 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength In-Reply-To: <52CF709ECA114C8288A914568E20FE4B@LaptopKrausert> References: <52CF709ECA114C8288A914568E20FE4B@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <007101ca89ac$103c06b0$30b41410$@net> Too short a cord can result in a main at apogee deployment. The sudden stop of the top half of the rocket sometimes causes the shear pins to shear. Of course, I've never had that happen, I always just wire it up wrong when it happens to me. Main at apogee, drogue at 700'... I typically will use the least ratty of the shock cords that I have close by...that's as much science as I apply...I've been reasonably successful utilizing this method. I have 1/2" Kevlar pull tape, 1/4" and 5/8" tubular Kevlar and several widths of tubular nylon for all my rockets...most are over 30', none are longer than 50'. No rockets larger than 4" diameter. Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:35 PM To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength Carl, Strength recommendation you've found sounds reasonable. For me I strive for 5 times or better the length. That is because of several factors. First one is as components separate, they begin to slow down. The further they separate the shock factor I believe is reduced. The second reason is backlash reflection actions that happen. A recovery harness too short once fully extended will spring back against the force. To avoid tangling or sending the nose cone through parachute lines can be mitigated with long recovery cords. Third is crashing booster and forward sections. During spring back, you risk the two rocket sections hitting each other. John Cox, one of my early mentors helped me learn some tricks. Before then I was lucky to have a recovery cord beyond the minimum to get the chute out. But tangle after tangle started causing me to ask why. Ever since that advice by John, I've used to longest recovery cord I can, but weight becomes a factor. So too much only adds weight you don't need. No matter what, if you deploy coming blastic, you are likely going to have damage. But if the strength is there, then you keep things safe for the viewers. I'd rather damage a rocket versus have it come apart and risk safety of others. One thing about using a long shock cord is during the recovery beginning. The first time I watch a 5x length length during ejection was scary. Seemed like something was wrong because of how far they separation was. Last couple of years, I've been using Kevlar pull tape. Light weight, very strong, and not prone to burning through. Many places online to get Kevlar lines. Or simply ask a utility company working near your home if they have an extra roll. While I like Kevlar. Nylon has "more" spring, and Kevlar is not. Shock at the separation will be higher/harder on components with Kevlar. While nylon has a little give. It's all about weight and personal choice. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:14 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's recovery > harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have also > found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material > should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for > people's > experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love > to > hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter > harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or > weak > a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a > 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have > problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I never > had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' > harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable > information. > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From raystoner99 at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 16:03:43 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:03:43 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007201ca89ac$b7e21df0$27a659d0$@net> Your bulk plate will generally be weaker than the glue joint in the body tube. I don't believe I've ever seen a bulk plate fail in a "normal deployment", nor have I seen many fail in a high speed deployment. It's usually the recovery harness, or the 'chute. Virtually all of the failures I've seen are in the glue joint between the bulk plate and the body tube. Figuring out the actual strength of the bulk plate is beyond me and I'll leave it to others. The most science I've applied to it, is "this looks good enough". The glue joint is where I'd focus my efforts. I've used as little as a 1/4" thick Baltic Birch bulk plate in a 4" ~20 lbs bird without failure. Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM To: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength Is there some easy way (i.e. for a non-materials engineer) to determine, roughly, how strong a bulk plate is going to be given a material, thickness, and diameter? Is there an easy way to determine how that strength will be effected by various holes drilled through the bulk plate? By strong, I mean, "How much force can be applied to the bulk plate through an attached U-bolt before it fails?" Is that shear strength? Thanks. - Cdarl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Wed Dec 30 17:18:10 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:18:10 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? Message-ID: Does anyone know how to download and save to a disk a video from You Tube? You can reply off list or to the list if you think that everyone would be interested. Thanks, Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From glech at aol.com Wed Dec 30 17:34:53 2009 From: glech at aol.com (Gary Lech) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:34:53 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? References: Message-ID: <019613815E504AF680FC4CC97E44F5BF@wink> I haven't found a convenient way to do it but the files do land in your browser cache when you view them. They are flash videos and on a Windows PC they have the file name extension of FLV. I search the cache folder for all files with a FLV extension and can usually find it by the date and time of the file. On my PC the files are usually named: video[1].flv Once found I copy to another folder and give it a more memorable name. You'll then need a flash file viewer to watch it again. There are lots of freeware viewers available on the Internet. Do a Google search or go to download.com It may be different for your browser, PC, or Mac. Happy New Year from ~ Gary Lech - WA7GL ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Munds To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? Does anyone know how to download and save to a disk a video from You Tube? You can reply off list or to the list if you think that everyone would be interested. Thanks, Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From raystoner99 at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 17:43:38 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:43:38 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007301ca89ba$ad290730$077b1590$@net> http://www.google.com/search?q=download+video+from+youtube&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 &aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Lots of ways to do it. Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bill Munds Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:18 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? Does anyone know how to download and save to a disk a video from You Tube? You can reply off list or to the list if you think that everyone would be interested. Thanks, Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From raystoner99 at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 17:44:12 2009 From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:44:12 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength In-Reply-To: <007201ca89ac$b7e21df0$27a659d0$@net> References: <007201ca89ac$b7e21df0$27a659d0$@net> Message-ID: <007401ca89ba$c1520220$43f60660$@net> Dang it...the bulk plate will usually be STRONGER then the glue joint.... Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:04 PM To: 'Carl Hamilton'; 'NorthWest Rocketry' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength Your bulk plate will generally be weaker than the glue joint in the body tube. I don't believe I've ever seen a bulk plate fail in a "normal deployment", nor have I seen many fail in a high speed deployment. It's usually the recovery harness, or the 'chute. Virtually all of the failures I've seen are in the glue joint between the bulk plate and the body tube. Figuring out the actual strength of the bulk plate is beyond me and I'll leave it to others. The most science I've applied to it, is "this looks good enough". The glue joint is where I'd focus my efforts. I've used as little as a 1/4" thick Baltic Birch bulk plate in a 4" ~20 lbs bird without failure. Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM To: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength Is there some easy way (i.e. for a non-materials engineer) to determine, roughly, how strong a bulk plate is going to be given a material, thickness, and diameter? Is there an easy way to determine how that strength will be effected by various holes drilled through the bulk plate? By strong, I mean, "How much force can be applied to the bulk plate through an attached U-bolt before it fails?" Is that shear strength? Thanks. - Cdarl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lsagan123 at msn.com Wed Dec 30 17:44:41 2009 From: lsagan123 at msn.com (Sareth Tes) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:44:41 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? In-Reply-To: <019613815E504AF680FC4CC97E44F5BF@wink> References: , <019613815E504AF680FC4CC97E44F5BF@wink> Message-ID: If you download the Real Player it has a plug in that will put a little "download Video" button on the top of media when you mouse over. I use it quite a bit. it works well Ralph > From: glech at aol.com > To: appusher at q.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:34:53 -0800 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? > > I haven't found a convenient way to do it but the files do land in your browser cache when you view them. They are flash videos and on a Windows PC they have the file name extension of FLV. I search the cache folder for all files with a FLV extension and can usually find it by the date and time of the file. On my PC the files are usually named: video[1].flv > > Once found I copy to another folder and give it a more memorable name. You'll then need a flash file viewer to watch it again. There are lots of freeware viewers available on the Internet. Do a Google search or go to download.com > > It may be different for your browser, PC, or Mac. > > Happy New Year from ~ > Gary Lech - WA7GL > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Munds > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:18 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? > > > > > Does anyone know how to download and save to a disk a video from You Tube? > > > > You can reply off list or to the list if you think that everyone would be interested. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill at PSP > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 30 18:02:35 2009 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:02:35 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength In-Reply-To: <007201ca89ac$b7e21df0$27a659d0$@net> Message-ID: <30785CD9D36D4A638DAD13DBF9581F09@steve> It all comes down to chasing the weak sister in your system. I like Ray's description of the glue joint going first - well, yeah except some of us always use a sliver of coupling tube on the load side of the bulkplate to increase the glue's shear resistance and then one wonders why the eye-bolt yielded next. I will bet anyone on this list that the best measure to mitigate stresses to hard-points on your airframe is to use moderate length shock-cord (like we've heard of already) AND z-fold shock cord segments then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. Or, attach a separate chute to each airframe segment and don't worry about it (applies primarily to big massive rockets where hard-point stresses really factors more than normal). /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:04 PM To: 'Carl Hamilton'; 'NorthWest Rocketry' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength Your bulk plate will generally be weaker than the glue joint in the body tube. I don't believe I've ever seen a bulk plate fail in a "normal deployment", nor have I seen many fail in a high speed deployment. It's usually the recovery harness, or the 'chute. Virtually all of the failures I've seen are in the glue joint between the bulk plate and the body tube. Figuring out the actual strength of the bulk plate is beyond me and I'll leave it to others. The most science I've applied to it, is "this looks good enough". The glue joint is where I'd focus my efforts. I've used as little as a 1/4" thick Baltic Birch bulk plate in a 4" ~20 lbs bird without failure. Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM To: NorthWest Rocketry Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength Is there some easy way (i.e. for a non-materials engineer) to determine, roughly, how strong a bulk plate is going to be given a material, thickness, and diameter? Is there an easy way to determine how that strength will be effected by various holes drilled through the bulk plate? By strong, I mean, "How much force can be applied to the bulk plate through an attached U-bolt before it fails?" Is that shear strength? Thanks. - Cdarl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/29/09 23:27:00 From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Wed Dec 30 18:18:46 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:18:46 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: BP and altitude In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B30031C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> References: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E43FADD9C@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com><268131157.5214361257545260122.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><014b01ca5f2d$fb5eedf0$f21cc9d0$@net> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DBFA@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10B30031C@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Message-ID: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF04C667@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com> if you use G10 airframe you won't rupture it - unless you put in about 1/2 a can of BP! b -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:39 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: BP and altitude I originally sent this yesterday, when the discussion was a little less advanced. One of these days I will learn the difference between "reply" and "reply all"...really I will! __________________________________________________________________________________________ According to everything I've ever taught in chemistry and physics: according to theory, if the BP is confined enough it would all burn, even at altitude. Of course, the downside to that strategy is that the explosive force of black powder increases with the degree of confinement.... Good news: you burned all your BP...Bad news: by increasing the confinement you produce a more energetic deployment event which could lead to an airframe rupture. Someday, when I'm one of those "rich teachers" I keep reading about, I'll build something that goes high enough to have to worry about my BP not all burning... Peter Schurke Science and Engineering Teacher, Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School 1819 N 135th St. Seattle, WA 98133 -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 2:13 PM To: Marty Weiser Cc: Cameron Tinder; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BP and altitude you get to move on to the next round! On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Marty Weiser wrote: > And what does our contestant win?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Greg Clark > Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 2:09 PM > To: raystoner99 at comcast.net > Cc: Cameron Tinder; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BP and altitude > > ding! ding! ding! > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:07 PM, wrote: >> not exactly. >> >> Lack of density of the air at high altitudes reduces the heat >> transfer > from one particle of BP to another. You don't burn all of the BP, so > you don't develop the amount of pressure you expected to. >> >> Think of a vacuum bottle, its a good insulator. >> Ray >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Krausert" >> To: "Cameron Tinder" , rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2009 1:55:35 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada >> Pacific >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BP and altitude >> >> Lack or density of air molecules at high altitudes reduces the >> pressure > for the charge to push against. You can seal the airframe, but then > you run the risk of the exponent of PSI exterior versus PSI internal. > Which at some point could cause a breach. If you not seal, and hit > high altitudes, the air pressure is reduced, Thus BP charge has less > to push upon to get a separation or laundry out. That's why many use > CO2 tanks to release the needed pressure. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Cameron Tinder >> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 1:48 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BP and altitude >> >> Ok, please pardon my ignorance (I have and abundant supply if it), I >> have heard for some time that there is a concern about BP and high altitude. > Ok, >> so exactly what is this concern? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Cameron >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From appusher at q.com Wed Dec 30 19:06:17 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:06:17 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Travel between Salem and Seattle? Message-ID: If there is anyone on the list that travels by car between or travels thru Salem on the way to Seattle, I have a favor with a reward attached to transport product. Please reply off list. Bill Munds Puget Sound Propulsion EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From appusher at q.com Wed Dec 30 19:24:02 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:24:02 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks everyone for the solution. I will give all the methods a shot tonight. Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: daron at daronjohnson.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:27:40 -0800 > To: appusher at q.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > > This is what I use > http://keepvid.com/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Munds > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:18 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? > > > > Does anyone know how to download and save to a disk a video from You Tube? > > > > You can reply off list or to the list if you think that everyone would be interested. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill at PSP > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From appusher at q.com Wed Dec 30 19:25:40 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:25:40 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Club Meeting News! Message-ID: I am trying to download instructional videos from Aerotech to be presented at Washington Aerospace Club meeting on January 9th. See http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/meetings.php for details about time and location for the meeting. Dave and I will both be attending. I plan on having 2009-2010 Aerotech Catalogs available to hand out. Also, I will have print outs for some new products that Aerotech has released recently. Aerotech has introduced some new hardware, new propellant reloads, as well as some new handouts for reload parts to help all of us, not just the new fliers, figure out which parts go where when a reload is assembled. We will bring Cokes and chips/cookies for refreshments. We will be available for questions on ordering products, rocket assembly instructions, and to provide a cheering section for Kent's performance of his famous weather dance seen at numerous club launches. If you have orders pending with us we can bring them to the meeting for delivery. (Roberrt Simpson-Clark, Steve Thacther) Be there or be nominated for club officer. Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From daron at daronjohnson.com Wed Dec 30 18:27:40 2009 From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:27:40 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? Message-ID: <20091231033121.C5BB550221@mx1.blastzone.com> This is what I use http://keepvid.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Bill Munds Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:18 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Down load You Tube? Does anyone know how to download and save to a disk a video from You Tube? You can reply off list or to the list if you think that everyone would be interested. Thanks, Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From mkquinn at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 20:03:57 2009 From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:03:57 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor Message-ID: <5a1085980912302003xdf499en4949c80e8fa7e136@mail.gmail.com> I have a new mid-power launch pad with a 3/8" drill chuck as a rod holder, and I would like to be able to launch my rail button rockets. Anyone know where I can buy a rail with a 3/8" rod adaptor? The one's I've been able to find have a 1/2" rod. Thanks. Mark Q From appusher at q.com Wed Dec 30 20:20:29 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 04:20:29 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor In-Reply-To: <5a1085980912302003xdf499en4949c80e8fa7e136@mail.gmail.com> References: <5a1085980912302003xdf499en4949c80e8fa7e136@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Local hardware store for the 3/8's rod. drill bit for hole to put screws thru with washers to hold the rail. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:03:57 -0800 > From: mkquinn at gmail.com > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor > > I have a new mid-power launch pad with a 3/8" drill chuck as a rod holder, > and I would like to be able to launch my rail button rockets. Anyone know > where I can buy a rail with a 3/8" rod adaptor? The one's I've been able to > find have a 1/2" rod. Thanks. > > Mark Q > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 20:40:22 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:40:22 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor References: <5a1085980912302003xdf499en4949c80e8fa7e136@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43A35C6784214717A010A683CD97F2DE@LaptopKrausert> You need to find 3/8" steel tubing or rod. Drill through to add square head nuts. That should make for a good stinger. Be careful to not make too huge of holes and reduce much needed strength. You should be able to use 6x32 screws, and save a lot of material for strength. Torch limits will apply, so be careful on motor size and thrust curves. Don't want to break a stinger during boost. Bad. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Quinn" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:03 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor >I have a new mid-power launch pad with a 3/8" drill chuck as a rod holder, > and I would like to be able to launch my rail button rockets. Anyone know > where I can buy a rail with a 3/8" rod adaptor? The one's I've been able > to > find have a 1/2" rod. Thanks. > > Mark Q > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From mkquinn at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 20:48:19 2009 From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:48:19 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor In-Reply-To: <43A35C6784214717A010A683CD97F2DE@LaptopKrausert> References: <5a1085980912302003xdf499en4949c80e8fa7e136@mail.gmail.com> <43A35C6784214717A010A683CD97F2DE@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <5a1085980912302048o44e426feo9343bf2463f79370@mail.gmail.com> Great advice all, thanks. I think with a rail and rod in hand, I should be able to put this together. The rod will be easy to find. However, I need a rail. I went to McMaster-Carr looking for a rail because I've seen them there before, but I can't seem to find the right key search words. Is this the best place to buy one, or are there others? Since it's strictly for mid-power, it doesn't need to be too heavy-duty. Mark On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Robert Krausert wrote: > You need to find 3/8" steel tubing or rod. Drill through to add square head > nuts. That should make for a good stinger. Be careful to not make too huge > of holes and reduce much needed strength. You should be able to use 6x32 > screws, and save a lot of material for strength. Torch limits will apply, so > be careful on motor size and thrust curves. Don't want to break a stinger > during boost. Bad. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Quinn" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:03 PM > > Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor > > > I have a new mid-power launch pad with a 3/8" drill chuck as a rod >> holder, >> and I would like to be able to launch my rail button rockets. Anyone know >> where I can buy a rail with a 3/8" rod adaptor? The one's I've been able >> to >> find have a 1/2" rod. Thanks. >> >> Mark Q >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > From sb at berfield.com Wed Dec 30 20:55:54 2009 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 04:55:54 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength Message-ID: Something I have done a couple of times when space was tight was to use a slip ring and a doubled shock cord. The friction of the ring on the cord as it slides out absorbes the ejection energy and eases the shock. Seems to worrk pretty well and lets me use a shorer overall length. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Krausert [mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 02:35 PM To: 'Carl Hamilton', 'NorthWest Rocketry' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength Carl, Strength recommendation you've found sounds reasonable. For me I strive for 5 times or better the length. That is because of several factors. First one is as components separate, they begin to slow down. The further they separate the shock factor I believe is reduced. The second reason is backlash reflection actions that happen. A recovery harness too short once fully extended will spring back against the force. To avoid tangling or sending the nose cone through parachute lines can be mitigated with long recovery cords. Third is crashing booster and forward sections. During spring back, you risk the two rocket sections hitting each other. John Cox, one of my early mentors helped me learn some tricks. Before then I was lucky to have a recovery cord beyond the minimum to get the chute out. But tangle after tangle started causing me to ask why. Ever since that advice by John, I've used to longest recovery cord I can, but weight becomes a factor. So too much only adds weight you don't need. No matter what, if you deploy coming blastic, you are likely going to have damage. But if the strength is there, then you keep things safe for the viewers. I'd rather damage a rocket versus have it come apart and risk safety of others. One thing about using a long shock cord is during the recovery beginning. The first time I watch a 5x length length during ejection was scary. Seemed like something was wrong because of how far they separation was. Last couple of years, I've been using Kevlar pull tape. Light weight, very strong, and not prone to burning through. Many places online to get Kevlar lines. Or simply ask a utility company working near your home if they have an extra roll. While I like Kevlar. Nylon has "more" spring, and Kevlar is not. Shock at the separation will be higher/harder on components with Kevlar. While nylon has a little give. It's all about weight and personal choice. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:14 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's recovery > harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have also > found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material > should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for > people's > experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love > to > hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter > harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or > weak > a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a > 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have > problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I never > had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' > harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable > information. > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Dec 30 20:57:48 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:57:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength In-Reply-To: <30785CD9D36D4A638DAD13DBF9581F09@steve> References: <30785CD9D36D4A638DAD13DBF9581F09@steve> Message-ID: <0303562583f7f328772ad054ce3c4cf4.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> > AND z-fold shock cord segments > then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee > cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. My favorite. I use this even on a lot of model rockets. The whole idea is to absorb the kinetic energy of separation after the halves have separated a ways. The idea is NOT to bring the halves to a sudden, jerked halt with a short length of unyielding Kevlar or to bounce them back together with rubber bands or bungee cords. And this can also reduce the tangle of shock cord in the rocket. +McG+ > It all comes down to chasing the weak sister in your system. I like > Ray's description of the glue joint going first - well, yeah except some > of us always use a sliver of coupling tube on the load side of the > bulkplate to increase the glue's shear resistance and then one wonders > why the eye-bolt yielded next. > > I will bet anyone on this list that the best measure to mitigate > stresses to hard-points on your airframe is to use moderate length > shock-cord (like we've heard of already) AND z-fold shock cord segments > then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee > cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. > > Or, attach a separate chute to each airframe segment and don't worry > about it (applies primarily to big massive rockets where hard-point > stresses really factors more than normal). > > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:04 PM > To: 'Carl Hamilton'; 'NorthWest Rocketry' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > > Your bulk plate will generally be weaker than the glue joint in the body > tube. I don't believe I've ever seen a bulk plate fail in a "normal > deployment", nor have I seen many fail in a high speed deployment. It's > usually the recovery harness, or the 'chute. Virtually all of the > failures > I've seen are in the glue joint between the bulk plate and the body > tube. > > Figuring out the actual strength of the bulk plate is beyond me and I'll > leave it to others. The most science I've applied to it, is "this looks > good enough". The glue joint is where I'd focus my efforts. > > I've used as little as a 1/4" thick Baltic Birch bulk plate in a 4" ~20 > lbs > bird without failure. > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM > To: NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > > Is there some easy way (i.e. for a non-materials engineer) to determine, > roughly, how strong a bulk plate is going to be given a material, > thickness, > and diameter? Is there an easy way to determine how that strength will > be > effected by various holes drilled through the bulk plate? By strong, I > mean, > "How much force can be applied to the bulk plate through an attached > U-bolt > before it fails?" Is that shear strength? > > Thanks. > > - Cdarl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: > 12/29/09 23:27:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From mkquinn at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 21:20:21 2009 From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:20:21 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor In-Reply-To: <5a1085980912302048o44e426feo9343bf2463f79370@mail.gmail.com> References: <5a1085980912302003xdf499en4949c80e8fa7e136@mail.gmail.com> <43A35C6784214717A010A683CD97F2DE@LaptopKrausert> <5a1085980912302048o44e426feo9343bf2463f79370@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5a1085980912302120m3025a380lfdfa104a2d9b4bb4@mail.gmail.com> I found this one at Granger, it looks like the right size: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2RCP9 Mark On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Mark Quinn wrote: > Great advice all, thanks. I think with a rail and rod in hand, I should be > able to put this together. > > The rod will be easy to find. However, I need a rail. I went to > McMaster-Carr looking for a rail because I've seen them there before, but I > can't seem to find the right key search words. Is this the best place to buy > one, or are there others? Since it's strictly for mid-power, it doesn't > need to be too heavy-duty. > > Mark > > On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Robert Krausert < > lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote: > >> You need to find 3/8" steel tubing or rod. Drill through to add square >> head nuts. That should make for a good stinger. Be careful to not make too >> huge of holes and reduce much needed strength. You should be able to use >> 6x32 screws, and save a lot of material for strength. Torch limits will >> apply, so be careful on motor size and thrust curves. Don't want to break a >> stinger during boost. Bad. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Quinn" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:03 PM >> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor >> >> >> I have a new mid-power launch pad with a 3/8" drill chuck as a rod >>> holder, >>> and I would like to be able to launch my rail button rockets. Anyone know >>> where I can buy a rail with a 3/8" rod adaptor? The one's I've been able >>> to >>> find have a 1/2" rod. Thanks. >>> >>> Mark Q >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> > From appusher at q.com Wed Dec 30 21:32:25 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 05:32:25 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor In-Reply-To: <5a1085980912302120m3025a380lfdfa104a2d9b4bb4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5a1085980912302003xdf499en4949c80e8fa7e136@mail.gmail.com>, <43A35C6784214717A010A683CD97F2DE@LaptopKrausert>, <5a1085980912302048o44e426feo9343bf2463f79370@mail.gmail.com>, <5a1085980912302120m3025a380lfdfa104a2d9b4bb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mark, I am still looking for the link, but there is a local 80/20 rail dealer in Tacoma....I think. You can go to www.8020.net for distributor lookup. I found: TECO Pneumatic 6201 15th Ave NW, #770 Seattle, WA 98107 United States Phone: 877-600-8585 Fax: 925-426-9539 E-Mail: david_aldrich at tecopneumatic.com URL: http://www.tecopneumatic.com and Warden Fluid Dynamics 203 N 36th St Seattle, WA 98103 United States Phone: 800-666-0382 Fax: 206-633-2980 E-Mail: lwarden at wfdonline.com URL: http://www.wfdonline.com Not bad for local dealers. Call for inventory in stock. Checking with them earlier in the year they had 1010 in stock up to 8' lengths. Longer (up to 20' max) lengths are available but at a higher shipping charge due to the length not the weight. UPS, FedEx will only accept 8'. Hope this helps. Might get it quicker and withoput shipping charges AND they are local vendors. Let's support them even if they don't come to the launch sites. ;_} Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:20:21 -0800 > From: mkquinn at gmail.com > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor > > I found this one at Granger, it looks like the right size: > > http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2RCP9 > > Mark > > > On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Mark Quinn wrote: > > > Great advice all, thanks. I think with a rail and rod in hand, I should be > > able to put this together. > > > > The rod will be easy to find. However, I need a rail. I went to > > McMaster-Carr looking for a rail because I've seen them there before, but I > > can't seem to find the right key search words. Is this the best place to buy > > one, or are there others? Since it's strictly for mid-power, it doesn't > > need to be too heavy-duty. > > > > Mark > > > > On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Robert Krausert < > > lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> You need to find 3/8" steel tubing or rod. Drill through to add square > >> head nuts. That should make for a good stinger. Be careful to not make too > >> huge of holes and reduce much needed strength. You should be able to use > >> 6x32 screws, and save a lot of material for strength. Torch limits will > >> apply, so be careful on motor size and thrust curves. Don't want to break a > >> stinger during boost. Bad. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Robert > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Quinn" > >> To: > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:03 PM > >> > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor > >> > >> > >> I have a new mid-power launch pad with a 3/8" drill chuck as a rod > >>> holder, > >>> and I would like to be able to launch my rail button rockets. Anyone know > >>> where I can buy a rail with a 3/8" rod adaptor? The one's I've been able > >>> to > >>> find have a 1/2" rod. Thanks. > >>> > >>> Mark Q > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockets mailing list > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > >>> > >>> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From mkquinn at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 21:36:02 2009 From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:36:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor In-Reply-To: References: <5a1085980912302003xdf499en4949c80e8fa7e136@mail.gmail.com> <43A35C6784214717A010A683CD97F2DE@LaptopKrausert> <5a1085980912302048o44e426feo9343bf2463f79370@mail.gmail.com> <5a1085980912302120m3025a380lfdfa104a2d9b4bb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5a1085980912302136l2722a4d4ge34f29fda4ee9e8e@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, I'm finding them everywhere now that I know what to search for. I'll definitely try a local supplier to avoid shipping and support local businesses. Thanks all! Mark On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Bill Munds wrote: > Mark, > > I am still looking for the link, but there is a local 80/20 rail dealer in > Tacoma....I think. > You can go to www.8020.net for distributor lookup. I found: > > TECO Pneumatic > 6201 15th Ave NW, #770 > Seattle, WA 98107 > United States > Phone: 877-600-8585 > Fax: 925-426-9539 > E-Mail: david_aldrich at tecopneumatic.com > URL: http://www.tecopneumatic.com > > and > > Warden Fluid Dynamics > 203 N 36th St > Seattle, WA 98103 > United States > Phone: 800-666-0382 > Fax: 206-633-2980 > E-Mail: lwarden at wfdonline.com > URL: http://www.wfdonline.com > > Not bad for local dealers. Call for inventory in stock. Checking with > them earlier in the year they had 1010 in stock up to 8' lengths. > Longer (up to 20' max) lengths are available but at a higher shipping > charge due to the length not the weight. UPS, FedEx will only accept 8'. > > Hope this helps. Might get it quicker and withoput shipping charges AND > they are local vendors. Let's support them even if they don't come to the > launch sites. ;_} > > > Bill > > > > > > > [image: i'm] EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:20:21 -0800 > > From: mkquinn at gmail.com > > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor > > > > > I found this one at Granger, it looks like the right size: > > > > http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2RCP9 > > > > Mark > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Mark Quinn wrote: > > > > > Great advice all, thanks. I think with a rail and rod in hand, I should > be > > > able to put this together. > > > > > > The rod will be easy to find. However, I need a rail. I went to > > > McMaster-Carr looking for a rail because I've seen them there before, > but I > > > can't seem to find the right key search words. Is this the best place > to buy > > > one, or are there others? Since it's strictly for mid-power, it doesn't > > > need to be too heavy-duty. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Robert Krausert < > > > lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> You need to find 3/8" steel tubing or rod. Drill through to add square > > >> head nuts. That should make for a good stinger. Be careful to not make > too > > >> huge of holes and reduce much needed strength. You should be able to > use > > >> 6x32 screws, and save a lot of material for strength. Torch limits > will > > >> apply, so be careful on motor size and thrust curves. Don't want to > break a > > >> stinger during boost. Bad. > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Robert > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Quinn" > > >> To: > > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:03 PM > > >> > > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor > > >> > > >> > > >> I have a new mid-power launch pad with a 3/8" drill chuck as a rod > > >>> holder, > > >>> and I would like to be able to launch my rail button rockets. Anyone > know > > >>> where I can buy a rail with a 3/8" rod adaptor? The one's I've been > able > > >>> to > > >>> find have a 1/2" rod. Thanks. > > >>> > > >>> Mark Q > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Rockets mailing list > > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From jjarmitage at earthlink.net Wed Dec 30 21:46:56 2009 From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:46:56 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength In-Reply-To: <0303562583f7f328772ad054ce3c4cf4.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> References: <30785CD9D36D4A638DAD13DBF9581F09@steve> <0303562583f7f328772ad054ce3c4cf4.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <8E07E3E41DB443668C3EB39BE0805F81@DellNotebook> I also like using the blue painter's tape. I've actually had recoveries where all of the tape had not torn thru. The staggered shock absorbing is similar to, for those of you also in construction, a shock absorbing fall arrest lanyard for a body harness. The Flat nylon is Z-folded then stitched so that the stitches tear thru as the load is arrested. Also makes loading easier. I'll bundle all the shock cords ahead of time, keeps 'em nice and neat. john -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > AND z-fold shock cord segments > then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee > cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. My favorite. I use this even on a lot of model rockets. The whole idea is to absorb the kinetic energy of separation after the halves have separated a ways. The idea is NOT to bring the halves to a sudden, jerked halt with a short length of unyielding Kevlar or to bounce them back together with rubber bands or bungee cords. And this can also reduce the tangle of shock cord in the rocket. +McG+ > It all comes down to chasing the weak sister in your system. I like > Ray's description of the glue joint going first - well, yeah except some > of us always use a sliver of coupling tube on the load side of the > bulkplate to increase the glue's shear resistance and then one wonders > why the eye-bolt yielded next. > > I will bet anyone on this list that the best measure to mitigate > stresses to hard-points on your airframe is to use moderate length > shock-cord (like we've heard of already) AND z-fold shock cord segments > then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee > cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. > > Or, attach a separate chute to each airframe segment and don't worry > about it (applies primarily to big massive rockets where hard-point > stresses really factors more than normal). > > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:04 PM > To: 'Carl Hamilton'; 'NorthWest Rocketry' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > > Your bulk plate will generally be weaker than the glue joint in the body > tube. I don't believe I've ever seen a bulk plate fail in a "normal > deployment", nor have I seen many fail in a high speed deployment. It's > usually the recovery harness, or the 'chute. Virtually all of the > failures > I've seen are in the glue joint between the bulk plate and the body > tube. > > Figuring out the actual strength of the bulk plate is beyond me and I'll > leave it to others. The most science I've applied to it, is "this looks > good enough". The glue joint is where I'd focus my efforts. > > I've used as little as a 1/4" thick Baltic Birch bulk plate in a 4" ~20 > lbs > bird without failure. > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM > To: NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > > Is there some easy way (i.e. for a non-materials engineer) to determine, > roughly, how strong a bulk plate is going to be given a material, > thickness, > and diameter? Is there an easy way to determine how that strength will > be > effected by various holes drilled through the bulk plate? By strong, I > mean, > "How much force can be applied to the bulk plate through an attached > U-bolt > before it fails?" Is that shear strength? > > Thanks. > > - Cdarl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: > 12/29/09 23:27:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From davewalp at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 22:12:38 2009 From: davewalp at comcast.net (David Walp) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:12:38 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005a01ca89e0$40fb2180$c2f16480$@net> Hi, 8020 has a store front on ebay - http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Garage-Sale Suspect that you are looking for "Fractional T-Slot" 10 Series (that is what I purchased and used). Comes is various lengths including 6' http://cgi.ebay.com/8020-T-Slot-Aluminum-Extrusion-10-S-1010-x-72N_W0QQitemZ 220508562943QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item335755a5ff Yea, the shipping is more that the rail for most lengths... cheers, _dave_ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:20:21 -0800 From: Mark Quinn To: Robert Krausert Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor Message-ID: <5a1085980912302120m3025a380lfdfa104a2d9b4bb4 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I found this one at Granger, it looks like the right size: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2RCP9 Mark On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Mark Quinn wrote: > Great advice all, thanks. I think with a rail and rod in hand, I should be > able to put this together. > > The rod will be easy to find. However, I need a rail. I went to > McMaster-Carr looking for a rail because I've seen them there before, but I > can't seem to find the right key search words. Is this the best place to buy > one, or are there others? Since it's strictly for mid-power, it doesn't > need to be too heavy-duty. > > Mark > > On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Robert Krausert < > lawndart.robert at gmail.com> wrote: > >> You need to find 3/8" steel tubing or rod. Drill through to add square >> head nuts. That should make for a good stinger. Be careful to not make too >> huge of holes and reduce much needed strength. You should be able to use >> 6x32 screws, and save a lot of material for strength. Torch limits will >> apply, so be careful on motor size and thrust curves. Don't want to break a >> stinger during boost. Bad. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Quinn" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:03 PM >> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor >> >> >> I have a new mid-power launch pad with a 3/8" drill chuck as a rod >>> holder, >>> and I would like to be able to launch my rail button rockets. Anyone know >>> where I can buy a rail with a 3/8" rod adaptor? The one's I've been able >>> to >>> find have a 1/2" rod. Thanks. >>> >>> Mark Q >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> > From lennyb at telus.net Wed Dec 30 21:55:44 2009 From: lennyb at telus.net (Len Bryan) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:55:44 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor In-Reply-To: <5a1085980912302136l2722a4d4ge34f29fda4ee9e8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1E1D496D73A549A3B74E6F53DEA0C87C@lorto720> I bought three 8 foot rails recently from 8020inc on eBay. (2x 8010 and 1x 8020 plus some screws and such)I didn't pay a dime for shipping! I'm not sure if it was because I ordered a few items or what the deal was but I am picking the rails up at Point Roberts, WA in about a week. If I had a local dealer I would certainly support them. This deal was too good to be true. Eight footers and no shipping charge? That is down right weird. 8-) Happy New Year! Len Bryan -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mark Quinn Sent: December 30, 2009 9:36 PM To: Bill Munds Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need launch rail w/ 3/8" rod adaptor Yeah, I'm finding them everywhere now that I know what to search for. I'll definitely try a local supplier to avoid shipping and support local businesses. Thanks all! Mark From absworld at cet.com Thu Dec 31 08:28:06 2009 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:28:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength In-Reply-To: <8E07E3E41DB443668C3EB39BE0805F81@DellNotebook> References: <30785CD9D36D4A638DAD13DBF9581F09@steve> <0303562583f7f328772ad054ce3c4cf4.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <8E07E3E41DB443668C3EB39BE0805F81@DellNotebook> Message-ID: <013d01ca8a36$3c2f7290$b48e57b0$@com> Keith Stormo uses this 'stitch' technique with great results. Key to the theory is to start (last z-fold to release) with multiple stitches, then ramp down the # of stitches as you continue with the Z-folding. This allows minimal force to begin unfolding but ever increasing force as the unfolding continues. If all z-folds pull loose, then next time around start with extra stitching with a goal of having that last one or two z-folds intact after fully deployed. This allows you to 'measure' just how much force was exerted during deployment. With this technique, you can quite accurately determine force/stitch required to pull it loose. I do something similar with blue tape and Kevlar but this does not allow much control over the force required to pull any particular z-fold loose. I do try and tape the begeesies out of the first z-folds and always look to see if they pull loose or not. My rational is that I'm using 1/8" braided Kevlar and it's kind of tough to stitch accurately (and still get 20'+ in 2" of 38mm airframe). Greatest risk is if your harness is too short. Either the shock of hitting the end locates a weak link or the recoil allows the parts to crash back together with a myriad of results. I recovered once with the weirdest hole in my upper airframe before (thanks again Keith!), determining the hole matched the eyebolt in my fin can. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of John Armitage Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:47 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength I also like using the blue painter's tape. I've actually had recoveries where all of the tape had not torn thru. The staggered shock absorbing is similar to, for those of you also in construction, a shock absorbing fall arrest lanyard for a body harness. The Flat nylon is Z-folded then stitched so that the stitches tear thru as the load is arrested. Also makes loading easier. I'll bundle all the shock cords ahead of time, keeps 'em nice and neat. john -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:58 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > AND z-fold shock cord segments > then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee > cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. My favorite. I use this even on a lot of model rockets. The whole idea is to absorb the kinetic energy of separation after the halves have separated a ways. The idea is NOT to bring the halves to a sudden, jerked halt with a short length of unyielding Kevlar or to bounce them back together with rubber bands or bungee cords. And this can also reduce the tangle of shock cord in the rocket. +McG+ > It all comes down to chasing the weak sister in your system. I like > Ray's description of the glue joint going first - well, yeah except some > of us always use a sliver of coupling tube on the load side of the > bulkplate to increase the glue's shear resistance and then one wonders > why the eye-bolt yielded next. > > I will bet anyone on this list that the best measure to mitigate > stresses to hard-points on your airframe is to use moderate length > shock-cord (like we've heard of already) AND z-fold shock cord segments > then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee > cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. > > Or, attach a separate chute to each airframe segment and don't worry > about it (applies primarily to big massive rockets where hard-point > stresses really factors more than normal). > > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:04 PM > To: 'Carl Hamilton'; 'NorthWest Rocketry' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > > Your bulk plate will generally be weaker than the glue joint in the body > tube. I don't believe I've ever seen a bulk plate fail in a "normal > deployment", nor have I seen many fail in a high speed deployment. It's > usually the recovery harness, or the 'chute. Virtually all of the > failures > I've seen are in the glue joint between the bulk plate and the body > tube. > > Figuring out the actual strength of the bulk plate is beyond me and I'll > leave it to others. The most science I've applied to it, is "this looks > good enough". The glue joint is where I'd focus my efforts. > > I've used as little as a 1/4" thick Baltic Birch bulk plate in a 4" ~20 > lbs > bird without failure. > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM > To: NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > > Is there some easy way (i.e. for a non-materials engineer) to determine, > roughly, how strong a bulk plate is going to be given a material, > thickness, > and diameter? Is there an easy way to determine how that strength will > be > effected by various holes drilled through the bulk plate? By strong, I > mean, > "How much force can be applied to the bulk plate through an attached > U-bolt > before it fails?" Is that shear strength? > > Thanks. > > - Cdarl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: > 12/29/09 23:27:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From angelawr at wrightholdings.com Thu Dec 31 08:32:21 2009 From: angelawr at wrightholdings.com (Angela "Red" Wright) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:32:21 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone Message-ID: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0175A6@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> In case I have too much champagne tonite to remember, I wanted to wish you all a HAPPY HAPPY New Year! :) Be safe, and I will see you all at FITS 2010! Cheers! Angela Dinese Wright From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Thu Dec 31 08:38:04 2009 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:38:04 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength In-Reply-To: <007101ca89ac$103c06b0$30b41410$@net> References: <52CF709ECA114C8288A914568E20FE4B@LaptopKrausert> <007101ca89ac$103c06b0$30b41410$@net> Message-ID: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF04CF1B@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com> I popped the main on my Wildman three times before I figured it all out. Two things: 1) the entire harness was lkevlar which doesn't give, it snaps! - I now use a kevlar loop in the booster which comes out about a foot then attach tubular nylon - ~1/2" for my small rockets and ~1" for my large ones. 2) the harness was too short and given number one snapped things around harshly. - I now use 4-5x the length. It may look a mile long coming down but the pieces don't ever bang against each other nor do they get a lot of snap force on them. see http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/images/FITS2008/FITS2008%20057.JPG I then do the following two things: 1) I bundle the harness with tape, this keeps it orderly and allows it to come to full length a little slower. It also allows me to prep the entire harness system at home, put in zip locks and carry to the launch site. Assembly takes seconds. I also label them as well. See http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/images/Winter2006-7/Level3/Level3-064.JPG 2) use very strong U-bolts and quicklinks. and IF I use an eye-bolt it's forged so I don't end up with another booster coming down on the playa from 9500' with no harness or chute. Cheers! b -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:59 PM To: 'NorthWest Rocketry' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength Too short a cord can result in a main at apogee deployment. The sudden stop of the top half of the rocket sometimes causes the shear pins to shear. Of course, I've never had that happen, I always just wire it up wrong when it happens to me. Main at apogee, drogue at 700'... I typically will use the least ratty of the shock cords that I have close by...that's as much science as I apply...I've been reasonably successful utilizing this method. I have 1/2" Kevlar pull tape, 1/4" and 5/8" tubular Kevlar and several widths of tubular nylon for all my rockets...most are over 30', none are longer than 50'. No rockets larger than 4" diameter. Ray -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:35 PM To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength Carl, Strength recommendation you've found sounds reasonable. For me I strive for 5 times or better the length. That is because of several factors. First one is as components separate, they begin to slow down. The further they separate the shock factor I believe is reduced. The second reason is backlash reflection actions that happen. A recovery harness too short once fully extended will spring back against the force. To avoid tangling or sending the nose cone through parachute lines can be mitigated with long recovery cords. Third is crashing booster and forward sections. During spring back, you risk the two rocket sections hitting each other. John Cox, one of my early mentors helped me learn some tricks. Before then I was lucky to have a recovery cord beyond the minimum to get the chute out. But tangle after tangle started causing me to ask why. Ever since that advice by John, I've used to longest recovery cord I can, but weight becomes a factor. So too much only adds weight you don't need. No matter what, if you deploy coming blastic, you are likely going to have damage. But if the strength is there, then you keep things safe for the viewers. I'd rather damage a rocket versus have it come apart and risk safety of others. One thing about using a long shock cord is during the recovery beginning. The first time I watch a 5x length length during ejection was scary. Seemed like something was wrong because of how far they separation was. Last couple of years, I've been using Kevlar pull tape. Light weight, very strong, and not prone to burning through. Many places online to get Kevlar lines. Or simply ask a utility company working near your home if they have an extra roll. While I like Kevlar. Nylon has "more" spring, and Kevlar is not. Shock at the separation will be higher/harder on components with Kevlar. While nylon has a little give. It's all about weight and personal choice. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: "NorthWest Rocketry" Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:14 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's recovery > harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have also > found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material > should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for > people's > experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love > to > hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter > harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or > weak > a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a > 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have > problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I never > had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' > harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable > information. > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu Dec 31 11:02:22 2009 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:02:22 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength In-Reply-To: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF04CF1B@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com> References: <52CF709ECA114C8288A914568E20FE4B@LaptopKrausert> <007101ca89ac$103c06b0$30b41410$@net> <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF04CF1B@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <4B3CF53E.9070403@hawkfeather.com> Ditto on my L3, mostly. I've always used all Kevlar, at least 5X the rocket length at both drogue and main, Z-folded with tape. I also make sure the harness division on at least the drogue side is 2:1 so the upper & lower frames can't bang together. http://www.macmillen.com/rocketry/l3/fits_090523/images/42.html The drogue is closer to the lower airframe, and the main closer to the NC. Andrew. Brad Wright wrote: > I popped the main on my Wildman three times before I figured it all out. Two things: > > 1) the entire harness was lkevlar which doesn't give, it snaps! - I now use a kevlar loop in the booster which comes out about a foot then attach tubular nylon - ~1/2" for my small rockets and ~1" for my large ones. > > 2) the harness was too short and given number one snapped things around harshly. - I now use 4-5x the length. It may look a mile long coming down but the pieces don't ever bang against each other nor do they get a lot of snap force on them. see http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/images/FITS2008/FITS2008%20057.JPG > > I then do the following two things: > > 1) I bundle the harness with tape, this keeps it orderly and allows it to come to full length a little slower. It also allows me to prep the entire harness system at home, put in zip locks and carry to the launch site. Assembly takes seconds. I also label them as well. See http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/images/Winter2006-7/Level3/Level3-064.JPG > > 2) use very strong U-bolts and quicklinks. and IF I use an eye-bolt it's forged so I don't end up with another booster coming down on the playa from 9500' with no harness or chute. > > Cheers! > b > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:59 PM > To: 'NorthWest Rocketry' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > > Too short a cord can result in a main at apogee deployment. The sudden stop of the top half of the rocket sometimes causes the shear pins to shear. > > Of course, I've never had that happen, I always just wire it up wrong when it happens to me. Main at apogee, drogue at 700'... > > I typically will use the least ratty of the shock cords that I have close by...that's as much science as I apply...I've been reasonably successful utilizing this method. I have 1/2" Kevlar pull tape, 1/4" and 5/8" tubular Kevlar and several widths of tubular nylon for all my rockets...most are over 30', none are longer than 50'. No rockets larger than 4" diameter. > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:35 PM > To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > > Carl, > Strength recommendation you've found sounds reasonable. For me I strive for > 5 times or better the length. That is because of several factors. First one is as components separate, they begin to slow down. The further they separate the shock factor I believe is reduced. The second reason is backlash reflection actions that happen. A recovery harness too short once fully extended will spring back against the force. To avoid tangling or sending the nose cone through parachute lines can be mitigated with long recovery cords. Third is crashing booster and forward sections. During spring back, you risk the two rocket sections hitting each other. > > John Cox, one of my early mentors helped me learn some tricks. Before then I > > was lucky to have a recovery cord beyond the minimum to get the chute out. > But tangle after tangle started causing me to ask why. Ever since that advice by John, I've used to longest recovery cord I can, but weight becomes > > a factor. So too much only adds weight you don't need. No matter what, if you deploy coming blastic, you are likely going to have damage. But if the strength is there, then you keep things safe for the viewers. I'd rather damage a rocket versus have it come apart and risk safety of others. > > One thing about using a long shock cord is during the recovery beginning. > The first time I watch a 5x length length during ejection was scary. Seemed like something was wrong because of how far they separation was. > > Last couple of years, I've been using Kevlar pull tape. Light weight, very strong, and not prone to burning through. Many places online to get Kevlar lines. Or simply ask a utility company working near your home if they have an extra roll. > > While I like Kevlar. Nylon has "more" spring, and Kevlar is not. Shock at the separation will be higher/harder on components with Kevlar. While nylon has a little give. It's all about weight and personal choice. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Hamilton" > To: "NorthWest Rocketry" > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:14 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > > >> You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's recovery >> harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have also >> found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material >> should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for >> people's >> experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love >> to >> hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter >> harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or >> weak >> a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a >> 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have >> problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I never >> had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' >> harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable >> information. >> >> Thanks. >> >> - Carl >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Thu Dec 31 11:11:53 2009 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:11:53 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone In-Reply-To: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0175A6@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: And a Happy New Year to you Red. We'll be seeing you at FITS with a flying Keg of Rootbeer! -- Peter "Angela \"Red\" Wright" "rockets at rocketsnw.com" Sent by: rockets-bounces at r cc ocketsnw.com Subject [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone 12/31/2009 08:32 AM In case I have too much champagne tonite to remember, I wanted to wish you all a HAPPY HAPPY New Year! :) Be safe, and I will see you all at FITS 2010! Cheers! Angela Dinese Wright _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com Thu Dec 31 11:47:52 2009 From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:47:52 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In addition to everyone else's advice, I'll toss in my own bit. I always 'Monkey Braid' the individual sections of harness. Heres a good description on it: http://www.animatedknots.com/chainsinnet/index.php I use Kevlar webbing only, just vary the size to match the forces. The Monkey Braid absorbs a lot of the shock of deployment. I've had numerous deployments on 4" and larger rockets where the braid didn't come all the way undone, proving that it was a 'gentle' deployment. -- Peter Carl Hamilton To Sent by: NorthWest Rocketry rockets-bounces at r ocketsnw.com cc Subject 12/30/2009 11:15 [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length AM and strength You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's recovery harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have also found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for people's experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love to hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or weak a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I never had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable information. Thanks. - Carl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 12:45:58 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:45:58 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone References: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0175A6@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <52A8E9EC808146F9A844625ABB63380F@LaptopKrausert> Happy New Year to everyone. May the champagne not spill on your dining room table. Best wishes for 2010. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela "Red" Wright" To: Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:32 AM Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone > In case I have too much champagne tonite to remember, I wanted to wish you > all a HAPPY HAPPY New Year! :) > > Be safe, and I will see you all at FITS 2010! > > Cheers! > > Angela Dinese Wright > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From rnech at yahoo.com Thu Dec 31 12:55:49 2009 From: rnech at yahoo.com (Robert Nech) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:55:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <69278.13721.qm@web111402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Be careful when having that Rootbeer Kegger party! Cops bust teens' root-beer kegger Dozens of high schoolers forced to take breath tests http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23851011/ --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com wrote: > From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone > To: "Angela "Red" Wright" > Cc: "rockets at rocketsnw.com" > Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 11:11 AM > And a Happy New Year to you Red. > > We'll be seeing you at FITS with a flying Keg of Rootbeer! > > -- Peter > > > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > ? ? ? ? ? > ???"Angela \"Red\"? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ??? > ? ? ? ? ? > ???Wright"? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ??? > ? ? ? ? ? > ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? To > ? ? ? ? ? > ???oldings.com>? ? ? ? > ? ? ? "rockets at rocketsnw.com"? > ? ? ? ? ??? > ? ? ? ? ? ???Sent > by:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > ? ? ? ? ? > ???rockets-bounces at r? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? cc > ? ? ? ? ? > ???ocketsnw.com? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ???Subject > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???[RocketsNW] Happy New Year > Everyone > ? ? ? ? ? > ???12/31/2009 08:32? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? > ???AM? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > > > > > In case I have too much champagne tonite to remember, I > wanted to wish you > all a HAPPY HAPPY New Year!? :) > > Be safe, and I will see you all at FITS 2010! > > Cheers! > > Angela Dinese Wright > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > ? > From carl20320 at msn.com Thu Dec 31 13:01:40 2009 From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:01:40 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone In-Reply-To: <52A8E9EC808146F9A844625ABB63380F@LaptopKrausert> References: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0175A6@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com>, <52A8E9EC808146F9A844625ABB63380F@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: It doesn't matter if I spill champagne on the dining room table. The epoxy will protect the table. ;-) Happy New Year everyone! Carl > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:45:58 -0800 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone > > Happy New Year to everyone. May the champagne not spill on your dining room > table. > > Best wishes for 2010. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angela "Red" Wright" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:32 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone > > > > In case I have too much champagne tonite to remember, I wanted to wish you > > all a HAPPY HAPPY New Year! :) > > > > Be safe, and I will see you all at FITS 2010! > > > > Cheers! > > > > Angela Dinese Wright > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Dec 31 18:32:49 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:32:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength In-Reply-To: <8E07E3E41DB443668C3EB39BE0805F81@DellNotebook> References: <30785CD9D36D4A638DAD13DBF9581F09@steve> <0303562583f7f328772ad054ce3c4cf4.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <8E07E3E41DB443668C3EB39BE0805F81@DellNotebook> Message-ID: <36272d8e835e10fbbcfcdff8b8304dcf.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> I like to see one or two bundles remaining at recovery. More, I'm wasting shock cord length. No remaining bundles, I figure a bit more energy should have been absorbed to keep stresses from shock down. But I can fly the same rocket on the same motor under the same conditions and end up with differing numbers of unopened bundles. It's not an exact science but it is good practice IMO. +McG+ > I also like using the blue painter's tape. I've actually had recoveries > where all of the tape had not torn thru. > The staggered shock absorbing is similar to, for those of you also in > construction, a shock absorbing fall arrest lanyard for a body harness. > The > Flat nylon is Z-folded then stitched so that the stitches tear thru as the > load is arrested. > Also makes loading easier. I'll bundle all the shock cords ahead of time, > keeps 'em nice and neat. > > john > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:58 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > >> AND z-fold shock cord segments >> then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee >> cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. > > My favorite. I use this even on a lot of model rockets. The whole idea > is to absorb the kinetic energy of separation after the halves have > separated a ways. The idea is NOT to bring the halves to a sudden, jerked > halt with a short length of unyielding Kevlar or to bounce them back > together with rubber bands or bungee cords. > > And this can also reduce the tangle of shock cord in the rocket. > +McG+ > > >> It all comes down to chasing the weak sister in your system. I like >> Ray's description of the glue joint going first - well, yeah except some >> of us always use a sliver of coupling tube on the load side of the >> bulkplate to increase the glue's shear resistance and then one wonders >> why the eye-bolt yielded next. >> >> I will bet anyone on this list that the best measure to mitigate >> stresses to hard-points on your airframe is to use moderate length >> shock-cord (like we've heard of already) AND z-fold shock cord segments >> then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee >> cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. >> >> Or, attach a separate chute to each airframe segment and don't worry >> about it (applies primarily to big massive rockets where hard-point >> stresses really factors more than normal). >> >> /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:04 PM >> To: 'Carl Hamilton'; 'NorthWest Rocketry' >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength >> >> Your bulk plate will generally be weaker than the glue joint in the body >> tube. I don't believe I've ever seen a bulk plate fail in a "normal >> deployment", nor have I seen many fail in a high speed deployment. It's >> usually the recovery harness, or the 'chute. Virtually all of the >> failures >> I've seen are in the glue joint between the bulk plate and the body >> tube. >> >> Figuring out the actual strength of the bulk plate is beyond me and I'll >> leave it to others. The most science I've applied to it, is "this looks >> good enough". The glue joint is where I'd focus my efforts. >> >> I've used as little as a 1/4" thick Baltic Birch bulk plate in a 4" ~20 >> lbs >> bird without failure. >> >> Ray >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM >> To: NorthWest Rocketry >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength >> >> Is there some easy way (i.e. for a non-materials engineer) to determine, >> roughly, how strong a bulk plate is going to be given a material, >> thickness, >> and diameter? Is there an easy way to determine how that strength will >> be >> effected by various holes drilled through the bulk plate? By strong, I >> mean, >> "How much force can be applied to the bulk plate through an attached >> U-bolt >> before it fails?" Is that shear strength? >> >> Thanks. >> >> - Cdarl >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: >> 12/29/09 23:27:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From appusher at q.com Thu Dec 31 18:40:11 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 02:40:11 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone In-Reply-To: <52A8E9EC808146F9A844625ABB63380F@LaptopKrausert> References: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0175A6@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com>, <52A8E9EC808146F9A844625ABB63380F@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: You better not spill adult beverages. Thats the 'cut-off' point. PSP wishes to thank all the regional flyers for their support over the past year. Happy New Year to all, Bill and Dave at Puget Sound Propulsion EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com > To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:45:58 -0800 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone > > Happy New Year to everyone. May the champagne not spill on your dining room > table. > > Best wishes for 2010. > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angela "Red" Wright" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:32 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone > > > > In case I have too much champagne tonite to remember, I wanted to wish you > > all a HAPPY HAPPY New Year! :) > > > > Be safe, and I will see you all at FITS 2010! > > > > Cheers! > > > > Angela Dinese Wright > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Dec 31 18:40:49 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:40:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength In-Reply-To: <013d01ca8a36$3c2f7290$b48e57b0$@com> References: <30785CD9D36D4A638DAD13DBF9581F09@steve> <0303562583f7f328772ad054ce3c4cf4.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> <8E07E3E41DB443668C3EB39BE0805F81@DellNotebook> <013d01ca8a36$3c2f7290$b48e57b0$@com> Message-ID: Yeah in my posts about this I was talking about taped Z-folds, small to mid-size rockets. Not terribly precise. Using it in a large and very expensive rocket stitching would be much better. +McG+ > Keith Stormo uses this 'stitch' technique with great results. > Key to the theory is to start (last z-fold to release) with multiple > stitches, then ramp down the # of stitches as you continue with the > Z-folding. > This allows minimal force to begin unfolding but ever increasing force as > the unfolding continues. > If all z-folds pull loose, then next time around start with extra > stitching > with a goal of having that last one or two z-folds intact after fully > deployed. > This allows you to 'measure' just how much force was exerted during > deployment. > > With this technique, you can quite accurately determine force/stitch > required to pull it loose. > > I do something similar with blue tape and Kevlar but this does not allow > much control over the force required to pull any particular z-fold loose. > I do try and tape the begeesies out of the first z-folds and always look > to > see if they pull loose or not. > My rational is that I'm using 1/8" braided Kevlar and it's kind of tough > to > stitch accurately (and still get 20'+ in 2" of 38mm airframe). > > Greatest risk is if your harness is too short. > Either the shock of hitting the end locates a weak link or the recoil > allows > the parts to crash back together with a myriad of results. > I recovered once with the weirdest hole in my upper airframe before > (thanks > again Keith!), determining the hole matched the eyebolt in my fin can. > > Bob Yanecek > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of John Armitage > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:47 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > > I also like using the blue painter's tape. I've actually had recoveries > where all of the tape had not torn thru. > The staggered shock absorbing is similar to, for those of you also in > construction, a shock absorbing fall arrest lanyard for a body harness. > The > Flat nylon is Z-folded then stitched so that the stitches tear thru as the > load is arrested. > Also makes loading easier. I'll bundle all the shock cords ahead of time, > keeps 'em nice and neat. > > john > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:58 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength > >> AND z-fold shock cord segments >> then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee >> cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. > > My favorite. I use this even on a lot of model rockets. The whole idea > is to absorb the kinetic energy of separation after the halves have > separated a ways. The idea is NOT to bring the halves to a sudden, jerked > halt with a short length of unyielding Kevlar or to bounce them back > together with rubber bands or bungee cords. > > And this can also reduce the tangle of shock cord in the rocket. > +McG+ > > >> It all comes down to chasing the weak sister in your system. I like >> Ray's description of the glue joint going first - well, yeah except some >> of us always use a sliver of coupling tube on the load side of the >> bulkplate to increase the glue's shear resistance and then one wonders >> why the eye-bolt yielded next. >> >> I will bet anyone on this list that the best measure to mitigate >> stresses to hard-points on your airframe is to use moderate length >> shock-cord (like we've heard of already) AND z-fold shock cord segments >> then wrap them with tape (figure a dozen segments typical on apogee >> cordage) - upon deployment the energy absorbed is significant. >> >> Or, attach a separate chute to each airframe segment and don't worry >> about it (applies primarily to big massive rockets where hard-point >> stresses really factors more than normal). >> >> /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:04 PM >> To: 'Carl Hamilton'; 'NorthWest Rocketry' >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength >> >> Your bulk plate will generally be weaker than the glue joint in the body >> tube. I don't believe I've ever seen a bulk plate fail in a "normal >> deployment", nor have I seen many fail in a high speed deployment. It's >> usually the recovery harness, or the 'chute. Virtually all of the >> failures >> I've seen are in the glue joint between the bulk plate and the body >> tube. >> >> Figuring out the actual strength of the bulk plate is beyond me and I'll >> leave it to others. The most science I've applied to it, is "this looks >> good enough". The glue joint is where I'd focus my efforts. >> >> I've used as little as a 1/4" thick Baltic Birch bulk plate in a 4" ~20 >> lbs >> bird without failure. >> >> Ray >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM >> To: NorthWest Rocketry >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Bulk plate strength >> >> Is there some easy way (i.e. for a non-materials engineer) to determine, >> roughly, how strong a bulk plate is going to be given a material, >> thickness, >> and diameter? Is there an easy way to determine how that strength will >> be >> effected by various holes drilled through the bulk plate? By strong, I >> mean, >> "How much force can be applied to the bulk plate through an attached >> U-bolt >> before it fails?" Is that shear strength? >> >> Thanks. >> >> - Cdarl >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: >> 12/29/09 23:27:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Dec 31 18:54:56 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:54:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength In-Reply-To: <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF04CF1B@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangel abs.com> References: <52CF709ECA114C8288A914568E20FE4B@LaptopKrausert> <007101ca89ac$103c06b0$30b41410$@net> <26D7A545D6E2E5429D76747FE82E2EBF04CF1B@BL2PRD0103MB034.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <98b2a42add7fb307d417790f41d47e27.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Heh. I remember the discussions on ROL in the 1990's about recovery harnesses: Tubular nylon is strong and has some "give" but has poor tolerance for heat, Spectra has very poor heat resistance, Kevlar is very strong and heat resistant but has all the "give" of steel cable, and bungee cord is what you use to strap down rockets for transport. A small reminder for the non-physics educated fliers out there. Force is proportional to acceleration. The faster the separating parts of a rocket come to a halt, the greater the peak force on the parts. You 'gotsa have some give' or that instantaneous peak force will do all kinds of surprising damage. +McG+ > I popped the main on my Wildman three times before I figured it all out. > Two things: > > 1) the entire harness was lkevlar which doesn't give, it snaps! - I now > use a kevlar loop in the booster which comes out about a foot then attach > tubular nylon - ~1/2" for my small rockets and ~1" for my large ones. > > 2) the harness was too short and given number one snapped things around > harshly. - I now use 4-5x the length. It may look a mile long coming > down but the pieces don't ever bang against each other nor do they get a > lot of snap force on them. see > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/images/FITS2008/FITS2008%20057.JPG > > I then do the following two things: > > 1) I bundle the harness with tape, this keeps it orderly and allows it to > come to full length a little slower. It also allows me to prep the entire > harness system at home, put in zip locks and carry to the launch site. > Assembly takes seconds. I also label them as well. See > http://rockets.wrightholdings.com/images/Winter2006-7/Level3/Level3-064.JPG > > 2) use very strong U-bolts and quicklinks. and IF I use an eye-bolt it's > forged so I don't end up with another booster coming down on the playa > from 9500' with no harness or chute. > > Cheers! > b > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:59 PM > To: 'NorthWest Rocketry' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > > Too short a cord can result in a main at apogee deployment. The sudden > stop of the top half of the rocket sometimes causes the shear pins to > shear. > > Of course, I've never had that happen, I always just wire it up wrong when > it happens to me. Main at apogee, drogue at 700'... > > I typically will use the least ratty of the shock cords that I have close > by...that's as much science as I apply...I've been reasonably successful > utilizing this method. I have 1/2" Kevlar pull tape, 1/4" and 5/8" > tubular Kevlar and several widths of tubular nylon for all my > rockets...most are over 30', none are longer than 50'. No rockets larger > than 4" diameter. > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:35 PM > To: Carl Hamilton; NorthWest Rocketry > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > > Carl, > Strength recommendation you've found sounds reasonable. For me I strive > for > 5 times or better the length. That is because of several factors. First > one is as components separate, they begin to slow down. The further they > separate the shock factor I believe is reduced. The second reason is > backlash reflection actions that happen. A recovery harness too short once > fully extended will spring back against the force. To avoid tangling or > sending the nose cone through parachute lines can be mitigated with long > recovery cords. Third is crashing booster and forward sections. During > spring back, you risk the two rocket sections hitting each other. > > John Cox, one of my early mentors helped me learn some tricks. Before then > I > > was lucky to have a recovery cord beyond the minimum to get the chute out. > But tangle after tangle started causing me to ask why. Ever since that > advice by John, I've used to longest recovery cord I can, but weight > becomes > > a factor. So too much only adds weight you don't need. No matter what, if > you deploy coming blastic, you are likely going to have damage. But if the > strength is there, then you keep things safe for the viewers. I'd rather > damage a rocket versus have it come apart and risk safety of others. > > One thing about using a long shock cord is during the recovery beginning. > The first time I watch a 5x length length during ejection was scary. > Seemed like something was wrong because of how far they separation was. > > Last couple of years, I've been using Kevlar pull tape. Light weight, very > strong, and not prone to burning through. Many places online to get Kevlar > lines. Or simply ask a utility company working near your home if they have > an extra roll. > > While I like Kevlar. Nylon has "more" spring, and Kevlar is not. Shock at > the separation will be higher/harder on components with Kevlar. While > nylon has a little give. It's all about weight and personal choice. > > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Hamilton" > To: "NorthWest Rocketry" > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:14 AM > Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > > >> You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's >> recovery >> harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have >> also >> found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material >> should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for >> people's >> experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love >> to >> hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter >> harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or >> weak >> a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a >> 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have >> problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I >> never >> had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' >> harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable >> information. >> >> Thanks. >> >> - Carl >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From appusher at q.com Thu Dec 31 18:59:22 2009 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 02:59:22 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Peter, Thanks for the post on the 'monkey braid'. I was taught, in the beginning of my HPR experience, to have at least 5x the length of the rocket for recovery harness. Put the chute at 1/3 the length to prevent the airframes from colliding. Also, I have learned, the longer the recovery harness....the easier it is to find your rocket after touch down. 'Monkey Braid' keeps all that line organized while prepping and or while loaded and thus during ejection serves does not get tangled. Serving as a shock absorber is just a bonus to me. Launching and recovering at Brothers with the high foliage, you are more likely to find the rocket by tripping on or getting hung around your neck, the recovery line. Instead of actually finding the rocket that is hiding in the foliage. Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > To: carl at mousetrap.com > From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:47:52 -0800 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength > > In addition to everyone else's advice, I'll toss in my own bit. I always > 'Monkey Braid' the individual sections of harness. Heres a good > description on it: http://www.animatedknots.com/chainsinnet/index.php > > I use Kevlar webbing only, just vary the size to match the forces. The > Monkey Braid absorbs a lot of the shock of deployment. I've had numerous > deployments on 4" and larger rockets where the braid didn't come all the > way undone, proving that it was a 'gentle' deployment. > > -- Peter > > > > > Carl Hamilton > om> To > Sent by: NorthWest Rocketry > rockets-bounces at r > ocketsnw.com cc > > Subject > 12/30/2009 11:15 [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length > AM and strength > > > > > > > > > > > You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's recovery > harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have also > found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material > should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for > people's > experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love to > hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter > harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or > weak > a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a > 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have > problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I never > had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' > harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable > information. > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From arrsales at cox.net Thu Dec 31 18:59:17 2009 From: arrsales at cox.net (Always Ready Rocketry) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 21:59:17 -0500 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year and Thank You Message-ID: <82.D9.17296.1156D3B4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> To all, I just want to take a moment to say Happy New Year to everyone and to also thank you for the tremendous support ARR has received from customers and vendors alike. It was an incredibly successful first year in business and I look forward to serving, sharing and flying with everyone in 2010. God Bless and once again, thank you. Sincerely, Randy Randall J. Ejma TRA 9577 L3 Always Ready Rocketry www.alwaysreadyrocketry.com rejma0415 at cox.net From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Dec 31 19:07:54 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:07:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length and strength In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5792f399fa8705086016f2e6d0c1533c.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> I gotta practice that one! Seems a more elegant solution. +McG+ > In addition to everyone else's advice, I'll toss in my own bit. I always > 'Monkey Braid' the individual sections of harness. Heres a good > description on it: http://www.animatedknots.com/chainsinnet/index.php > > I use Kevlar webbing only, just vary the size to match the forces. The > Monkey Braid absorbs a lot of the shock of deployment. I've had numerous > deployments on 4" and larger rockets where the braid didn't come all the > way undone, proving that it was a 'gentle' deployment. > > -- Peter > > > > > Carl Hamilton > om> To > Sent by: NorthWest Rocketry > rockets-bounces at r > ocketsnw.com cc > > Subject > 12/30/2009 11:15 [RocketsNW] Recovery harness length > AM and strength > > > > > > > > > > > You can find recommendations online that suggest that a rocket's recovery > harness should be anywhere from two to five times it's length. I have also > found recommendations that the tensile strength of the harness material > should be 50 times the static weight of the rocket. I'm looking for > people's > experience with various harness lengths and materials. I would also love > to > hear some of the arguments for and against longer versus shorter > harnesses. My goal is to get a better understanding of how short and/or > weak > a harness can be before failures become common. Responses like, "I use a > 100' harness of 2" tubular Kevlar on my Binder Excel and never have > problems," aren't what I'm looking for. However, something like, "I never > had problems with my 35' harness on a 7' rocket, but when I used a 20' > harness bad things always happened," would provide some valuable > information. > > Thanks. > > - Carl > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Dec 31 19:22:16 2009 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:22:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone In-Reply-To: References: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0175A6@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com>, <52A8E9EC808146F9A844625ABB63380F@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <9a7a127071ab2f874593cffbac6ce645.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Ummm...the cutoff point is when I'm too drunk to light the ***ends*** of the fuses on the firecrackers........ :-0 Happy New Year! Save lives: Use a designated driver. Save fingers: Use a 'punk' to light fuses! +McG+ > You better not spill adult beverages. Thats the 'cut-off' point. > > > > PSP wishes to thank all the regional flyers for their support over the > past year. > > > > Happy New Year to all, > > > > Bill and Dave at > > Puget Sound Propulsion > > > > > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com >> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:45:58 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone >> >> Happy New Year to everyone. May the champagne not spill on your dining >> room >> table. >> >> Best wishes for 2010. >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angela "Red" Wright" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:32 AM >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone >> >> >> > In case I have too much champagne tonite to remember, I wanted to wish >> you >> > all a HAPPY HAPPY New Year! :) >> > >> > Be safe, and I will see you all at FITS 2010! >> > >> > Cheers! >> > >> > Angela Dinese Wright >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Thu Dec 31 19:53:27 2009 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:53:27 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone References: <3E98A03ED20E984BAFAFF0A4891CDC2C0175A6@BL2PRD0103MB035.prod.exchangelabs.com>, <52A8E9EC808146F9A844625ABB63380F@LaptopKrausert> <9a7a127071ab2f874593cffbac6ce645.squirrel@www.wa-net.com> Message-ID: <98A6214F884D4845B0CAF114F85D6397@LaptopKrausert> Don't cut Ken off just yet. He'sh shnot slurring enough yett. Besisheds, he still has most hiz fingers left. Ken, Just use the reflection on the dining room table to see and light the fuse. Also, keep remaining finger clear of fuse. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Bill Munds" Cc: Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone > Ummm...the cutoff point is when I'm too drunk to light the ***ends*** of > the fuses on the firecrackers........ :-0 > > Happy New Year! > > Save lives: Use a designated driver. > Save fingers: Use a 'punk' to light fuses! > +McG+ > > > >> You better not spill adult beverages. Thats the 'cut-off' point. >> >> >> >> PSP wishes to thank all the regional flyers for their support over the >> past year. >> >> >> >> Happy New Year to all, >> >> >> >> Bill and Dave at >> >> Puget Sound Propulsion >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >> >> >>> From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com >>> To: angelawr at wrightholdings.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:45:58 -0800 >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone >>> >>> Happy New Year to everyone. May the champagne not spill on your dining >>> room >>> table. >>> >>> Best wishes for 2010. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angela "Red" Wright" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:32 AM >>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy New Year Everyone >>> >>> >>> > In case I have too much champagne tonite to remember, I wanted to wish >>> you >>> > all a HAPPY HAPPY New Year! :) >>> > >>> > Be safe, and I will see you all at FITS 2010! >>> > >>> > Cheers! >>> > >>> > Angela Dinese Wright >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >