[RocketsNW] IGNITERS

Thu Apr 9 17:14:29 PDT 2009

I once saw a link to a site that had recommended amount of CuO thermite to use with different size motors.  It was a dead link.  Does anyone know of a similiar site that can provide a basis for the amount to use?

Carl

> From: scott at scottsrockets.com
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; bphlat234 at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com; jhadv at pacifier.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:08:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> One word...
> 
> Copper oxide thermite.
> 
> Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well.
> 
> Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind. 
> 
> 
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
> To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful
> adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT,
> and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head. 
> When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding
> the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have
> been fine alone?
> 
> Curious.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> 
> > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite
> > ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350. It
> > started up instantly like an Estes motor.
> >
> > Gary Harris
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> >
> >
> >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis for
> >> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device. 
> >> Igniters
> >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were
> >> themselves
> >> considered unregulated."
> >>
> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with
> >> unregulated motors..." The only problem being that said devices are, in
> >> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be 
> >> just
> >> barely functional. People of this opinion would point to all the 
> >> chuffing
> >> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch. Such devices (total
> >> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor
> >> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated. I certainly don't
> >> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the
> >> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire
> >> would produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we?
> >> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6
> >> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas 
> >> products
> >> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well
> >> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec 
> >> for
> >> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant
> >> characteristics). That's an igniter and I think you're still going to
> >> need
> >> a permit for those. A NASA Standard would be an example of such an
> >> igniter
> >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
> >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
> >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as
> >> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
> >> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave). I
> >> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate
> >> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the
> >> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
I once saw a link to a site that had recommended amount of CuO thermite to use with different size motors.  It was a dead link.  Does anyone know of a similiar site that can provide a basis for the amount to use?

Carl

> From: scott at scottsrockets.com
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; bphlat234 at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com; jhadv at pacifier.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:08:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
> One word...
>
> Copper oxide thermite.
>
> Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well.
>
> Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind.
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
> To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
> I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful
> adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT,
> and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head.
> When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding
> the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have
> been fine alone?
>
> Curious.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
>
> > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite
> > ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350. It
> > started up instantly like an Estes motor.
> >
> > Gary Harris
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> >
> >
> >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis for
> >> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device.
> >> Igniters
> >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were
> >> themselves
> >> considered unregulated."
> >>
> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with
> >> unregulated motors..." The only problem being that said devices are, in
> >> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be
> >> just
> >> barely functional. People of this opinion would point to all the
> >> chuffing
> >> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch. Such devices (total
> >> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor
> >> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated. I certainly don't
> >> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the
> >> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire
> >> would produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we?
> >> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6
> >> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas
> >> products
> >> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well
> >> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec
> >> for
> >> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant
> >> characteristics). That's an igniter and I think you're still going to
> >> need
> >> a permit for those. A NASA Standard would be an example of such an
> >> igniter
> >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
> >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
> >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as
> >> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
> >> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave). I
> >> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate
> >> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the
> >> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>