From mkquinn at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 06:46:45 2009
From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:46:45 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
In-Reply-To: <15000184.1238553197284.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <15000184.1238553197284.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5a1085980904010646m3e09a98bpb0db3c217b8a582d@mail.gmail.com>

I like "Up in Smoke". It reflects the state of my 401k quite accurately.

Mark Q

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:33 PM, <melamy at earthlink.net> wrote:

> given that April is National Financial Literacy Month and given that what
> our government is doing and also related to rocketry - I would call it "Up
> in Smoke" launch...
>
> regards, Steve Thatcher
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
I like "Up in Smoke". It reflects the state of my 401k quite accurately.
?
Mark Q
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:33 PM,
< mailto:melamy at earthlink.net melamy at earthlink.net
>
wrote:
given that April is National Financial Literacy Month and given that what our government is doing and also related to rocketry - I would call it "Up in Smoke" launch...
regards, Steve Thatcher
?

From winningstad at comcast.net  Wed Apr  1 06:48:12 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:48:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FYI
In-Reply-To: <D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2>
References: <49D2A944.20406@earthlink.net>
	<D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <773FB2171865456E8C7FB030636F8CEA@downstair>

Yesterday at 1700 hours EDT, the Director of Homeland Security made an
emergency decree reversing the judge's decision in the TRA/NAR vs BATFE APCP
case.  Further, we will now be required to have a LEUP and type 4 magazine
for ANY rocket propellant except water.  This means Estes Motors and
EVERYthing is now going in an approved, inspected, inventoried and licensed
magazine.

 

Go to this link <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools'_Day>  and read
all about it.

 

Dennis S Winningstad

503-781-3529

 

It is bad luck to be superstitious.

 

-------------- next part --------------
Yesterday at 1700 hours EDT, the Director of Homeland Security made an emergency decree reversing the judge's decision in the TRA/NAR vs BATFE APCP case.? Further, we will now be required to have a LEUP and type 4 magazine for ANY rocket propellant except water.? This means Estes Motors and EVERYthing is now going in an approved, inspected, inventoried and licensed magazine.
?
Go to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools'_Day link
and read all about it.
?
Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
?
It is bad luck to be superstitious.
?

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Wed Apr  1 08:03:14 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:03:14 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FYI
In-Reply-To: <773FB2171865456E8C7FB030636F8CEA@downstair>
References: <49D2A944.20406@earthlink.net>	<D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2>
	<773FB2171865456E8C7FB030636F8CEA@downstair>
Message-ID: <49D38232.7090307@earthlink.net>

Didn't you know that AFD was canceled due since the fool is out of the 
country. 
Bumper sticker sighted saying, "Somewhere in America, a village is 
missing its idiot."

Now go fly some rockets!

Robert

P.S. These people obviously did not get the memo. 

http://gizmodo.com/

Opera Launches Facial Gesture Capability
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=09/04/01/1215208

Slashdot Launches User Achievements
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=09/03/31/1610228

Seattle's Fremont District Lenin Statue Ripped A New One
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7976883.stm

P.P.S.
The Top 100 April Fool's Day Hoaxes of All Time
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/aprilfool/

Harmless April Fool's Pranks and Practical Jokes
http://www.aprilfoolzone.com/

Who Has A Better Sense of Humor? MIT or Harvard?
http://www.zug.com/pranks/harvard-vs-mit/

Dennis Winningstad wrote:
> Yesterday at 1700 hours EDT, the Director of Homeland Security made an emergency decree reversing the judge's decision in the TRA/NAR vs BATFE APCP case.  Further, we will now be required to have a LEUP and type 4 magazine for ANY rocket propellant except water.  This means Estes Motors and EVERYthing is now going in an approved, inspected, inventoried and licensed magazine.
>  
> Go to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools'_Day link
> and read all about it.
>  
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529
>  
> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>  
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   


From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Wed Apr  1 10:12:28 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:12:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
In-Reply-To: <D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2>
References: <49D2A944.20406@earthlink.net>
	<D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <49D3A07C.2070609@earthlink.net>

I heard from a friend of min this morning that it is snowing in Federal 
Way.  Any one else have snow to report in?

Robert

Scott T Bowers wrote:
> Hope like hell it isn't snowing still launch? 
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Hammer
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:38 PM
> To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
>
> So far the suggested names for the 60 Acres April launch are as follows.
>
> Yuri's Day (12APR61 is the day Yuri Gagarin and mankind went into space for
> the first time.) Spring Fling Spring Fever
>
> Anyone other suggestions?
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>
>   


From ethan.e.jones at boeing.com  Wed Apr  1 10:16:19 2009
From: ethan.e.jones at boeing.com (Jones, Ethan E)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:16:19 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
In-Reply-To: <49D3A07C.2070609@earthlink.net>
References: <49D2A944.20406@earthlink.net><D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2>
	<49D3A07C.2070609@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F0A95F6CD684A14696C12B97177E31C8080CF6D7@XCH-NW-4V1.nw.nos.boeing.com>


 Snowing here at Boeing Everett and also at Boeing Field.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hammer [mailto:hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:12 AM
Cc: 'NW Rocketry mailing list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name

I heard from a friend of min this morning that it is snowing in Federal
Way.  Any one else have snow to report in?

Robert

Scott T Bowers wrote:
> Hope like hell it isn't snowing still launch? 
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Hammer
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:38 PM
> To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
>
> So far the suggested names for the 60 Acres April launch are as
follows.
>
> Yuri's Day (12APR61 is the day Yuri Gagarin and mankind went into 
> space for the first time.) Spring Fling Spring Fever
>
> Anyone other suggestions?
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Apr  1 10:24:39 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:24:39 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
In-Reply-To: <49D3A07C.2070609@earthlink.net>
References: <49D2A944.20406@earthlink.net><D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2>
	<49D3A07C.2070609@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <57C3DCBBEB6E4DD0A5F0800CCF0C250E@Mobile2>

Snowed here in Puyallup.  


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Hammer
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:12 AM
Cc: 'NW Rocketry mailing list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name

I heard from a friend of min this morning that it is snowing in Federal Way.
Any one else have snow to report in?

Robert

Scott T Bowers wrote:
> Hope like hell it isn't snowing still launch? 
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Hammer
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:38 PM
> To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
>
> So far the suggested names for the 60 Acres April launch are as follows.
>
> Yuri's Day (12APR61 is the day Yuri Gagarin and mankind went into 
> space for the first time.) Spring Fling Spring Fever
>
> Anyone other suggestions?
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From deyv at europa.com  Wed Apr  1 10:01:24 2009
From: deyv at europa.com (Dave Connet)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:01:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FYI
In-Reply-To: <773FB2171865456E8C7FB030636F8CEA@downstair>
References: <49D2A944.20406@earthlink.net>	<D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2>
	<773FB2171865456E8C7FB030636F8CEA@downstair>
Message-ID: <49D39DE4.2080703@europa.com>

Really?  I heard ( although it was on Fox news, highly undependable ) 
that water "if proposed use is as a rocket propellant . . ." is included.
That means that your magazine must hold water.


Dennis Winningstad wrote:
> Yesterday at 1700 hours EDT, the Director of Homeland Security made an emergency decree reversing the judge's decision in the TRA/NAR vs BATFE APCP case.  Further, we will now be required to have a LEUP and type 4 magazine for ANY rocket propellant except water.  This means Estes Motors and EVERYthing is now going in an approved, inspected, inventoried and licensed magazine.
>  
> Go to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools'_Day link
> and read all about it.
>  
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529
>  
> It is bad mojo to be superstitious.
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________

-------------- next part --------------
Really?? I heard ( although it was on Fox news, highly undependable ) that water "if proposed use is as a rocket propellant . . ." is included.
That means that your magazine must hold water.
Dennis Winningstad wrote:
Yesterday at 1700 hours EDT, the Director of Homeland Security made an emergency decree reversing the judge's decision in the TRA/NAR vs BATFE APCP case.? Further, we will now be required to have a LEUP and type 4 magazine for ANY rocket propellant except water.? This means Estes Motors and EVERYthing is now going in an approved, inspected, inventoried and licensed magazine. ? Go to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools'_Day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools'_Day
link and read all about it. ? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 ? It is bad mojo to be superstitious. ?
_______________________________________________

From aaronfogg at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 10:38:26 2009
From: aaronfogg at gmail.com (Aaron Fogg)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:38:26 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
In-Reply-To: <57C3DCBBEB6E4DD0A5F0800CCF0C250E@Mobile2>
References: <49D2A944.20406@earthlink.net>
	<D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2>
	<49D3A07C.2070609@earthlink.net>
	<57C3DCBBEB6E4DD0A5F0800CCF0C250E@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <e1e3ba0b0904011038p3797ac65r3dbf63ac4e78c690@mail.gmail.com>

Trying to snow here in Kirkland 50/50.

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Scott T Bowers <scott at scottsrockets.com>wrote:

> Snowed here in Puyallup.
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Hammer
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:12 AM
> Cc: 'NW Rocketry mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
>
> I heard from a friend of min this morning that it is snowing in Federal
> Way.
> Any one else have snow to report in?
>
> Robert
>
> Scott T Bowers wrote:
> > Hope like hell it isn't snowing still launch?
> >
> >
> > Scott T. Bowers
> > www.scottsrockets.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Hammer
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:38 PM
> > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
> >
> > So far the suggested names for the 60 Acres April launch are as follows.
> >
> > Yuri's Day (12APR61 is the day Yuri Gagarin and mankind went into
> > space for the first time.) Spring Fling Spring Fever
> >
> > Anyone other suggestions?
> >
> > Robert
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Scott T Bowers
< mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com scott at scottsrockets.com
>
wrote:
Snowed here in Puyallup.
Scott T. Bowers
http://www.scottsrockets.com www.scottsrockets.com
-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
]
On Behalf Of Hammer
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:12 AM
Cc: 'NW Rocketry mailing list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
I heard from a friend of min this morning that it is snowing in Federal Way.
Any one else have snow to report in?
Robert
Scott T Bowers wrote:
> Hope like hell it isn't snowing still launch?
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> http://www.scottsrockets.com www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
]
> On Behalf Of Hammer
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:38 PM
> To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
>
> So far the suggested names for the 60 Acres April launch are as follows.
>
> Yuri's Day (12APR61 is the day Yuri Gagarin and mankind went into
> space for the first time.) Spring Fling Spring Fever
>
> Anyone other suggestions?
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Apr  1 10:49:25 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:49:25 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FYI
In-Reply-To: <49D39DE4.2080703@europa.com>
References: <49D2A944.20406@earthlink.net>	<D64CF20FE6544F09BDB7328FCC043738@Mobile2><773FB2171865456E8C7FB030636F8CEA@downstair>
	<49D39DE4.2080703@europa.com>
Message-ID: <DB16274DD3164FE5A9843D031CC0BD2C@Mobile2>

 
Only counts if the water is in plastic bottles.

Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dave Connet
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:01 AM
To: Dennis Winningstad
Cc: 'NW Rocketry mailing list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI

Really?  I heard ( although it was on Fox news, highly undependable ) that
water "if proposed use is as a rocket propellant . . ." is included.
That means that your magazine must hold water.


Dennis Winningstad wrote:
> Yesterday at 1700 hours EDT, the Director of Homeland Security made an
emergency decree reversing the judge's decision in the TRA/NAR vs BATFE APCP
case.  Further, we will now be required to have a LEUP and type 4 magazine
for ANY rocket propellant except water.  This means Estes Motors and
EVERYthing is now going in an approved, inspected, inventoried and licensed
magazine.
>  

>  
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529
>  
> It is bad mojo to be superstitious.
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________



From brodwcjj at integrity.com  Wed Apr  1 17:00:25 2009
From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:00:25 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] FYI
In-Reply-To: <mailman.742.1238607520.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.742.1238607520.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <20090401190025.51241ypxaecsswlc@wm.integrity.com>

Thanks for the info Dave,
Can I store my proposed water propellant in the magazine  in the 2  
liter bottles I am going to launch  or do I have to keep the  
propellant and casing seperate till launch ?

Dustin,  ain't no Fool, Brown


From: Dave Connet <deyv at europa.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI
To: Dennis Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>


Really?  I heard ( although it was on Fox news, highly undependable )
that water "if proposed use is as a rocket propellant . . ." is included.
That means that your magazine must hold water.

From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Wed Apr  1 17:22:08 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 17:22:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FYI
In-Reply-To: <20090401190025.51241ypxaecsswlc@wm.integrity.com>
References: <mailman.742.1238607520.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<20090401190025.51241ypxaecsswlc@wm.integrity.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c9b329$0fd1ab80$2f750280$@net>

I can clearly show that ~25% of the stuff that comes out of the motors I
build is good old water...of course, it's at about 2000 degrees C...

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:00 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI

Thanks for the info Dave,
Can I store my proposed water propellant in the magazine  in the 2  
liter bottles I am going to launch  or do I have to keep the  
propellant and casing seperate till launch ?

Dustin,  ain't no Fool, Brown


From: Dave Connet <deyv at europa.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI
To: Dennis Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>


Really?  I heard ( although it was on Fox news, highly undependable )
that water "if proposed use is as a rocket propellant . . ." is included.
That means that your magazine must hold water.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Apr  1 17:33:29 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 17:33:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FYI
In-Reply-To: <002a01c9b329$0fd1ab80$2f750280$@net>
References: <mailman.742.1238607520.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><20090401190025.51241ypxaecsswlc@wm.integrity.com>
	<002a01c9b329$0fd1ab80$2f750280$@net>
Message-ID: <D396A531638D43F88293D4D75C1DC73D@Mobile2>

Yea, and a good dose of hydrochloric acid to boot. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:22 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI

I can clearly show that ~25% of the stuff that comes out of the motors I
build is good old water...of course, it's at about 2000 degrees C...

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:00 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI

Thanks for the info Dave,
Can I store my proposed water propellant in the magazine  in the 2 liter
bottles I am going to launch  or do I have to keep the propellant and casing
seperate till launch ?

Dustin,  ain't no Fool, Brown


From: Dave Connet <deyv at europa.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI
To: Dennis Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>


Really?  I heard ( although it was on Fox news, highly undependable ) that
water "if proposed use is as a rocket propellant . . ." is included.
That means that your magazine must hold water.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Wed Apr  1 17:51:08 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 17:51:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FYI
In-Reply-To: <D396A531638D43F88293D4D75C1DC73D@Mobile2>
References: <mailman.742.1238607520.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><20090401190025.51241ypxaecsswlc@wm.integrity.com>
	<002a01c9b329$0fd1ab80$2f750280$@net>
	<D396A531638D43F88293D4D75C1DC73D@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <003c01c9b32d$1df1dce0$59d596a0$@net>

Not to mention H2, CO, NO, CO2, N2, AL2O3, NH3, CH4, H and Cl...

Take the advice of the guy on WillitBlend.com, "Don't breathe this."

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:33 PM
To: 'W. Raymond Stoner'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FYI

Yea, and a good dose of hydrochloric acid to boot. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:22 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI

I can clearly show that ~25% of the stuff that comes out of the motors I
build is good old water...of course, it's at about 2000 degrees C...

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:00 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI

Thanks for the info Dave,
Can I store my proposed water propellant in the magazine  in the 2 liter
bottles I am going to launch  or do I have to keep the propellant and casing
seperate till launch ?

Dustin,  ain't no Fool, Brown


From: Dave Connet <deyv at europa.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI
To: Dennis Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>


Really?  I heard ( although it was on Fox news, highly undependable ) that
water "if proposed use is as a rocket propellant . . ." is included.
That means that your magazine must hold water.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Apr  1 18:07:18 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:07:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FYI
In-Reply-To: <003c01c9b32d$1df1dce0$59d596a0$@net>
References: <mailman.742.1238607520.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><20090401190025.51241ypxaecsswlc@wm.integrity.com><002a01c9b329$0fd1ab80$2f750280$@net><D396A531638D43F88293D4D75C1DC73D@Mobile2>
	<003c01c9b32d$1df1dce0$59d596a0$@net>
Message-ID: <D88B15F22DCC4DE699B745D56F190E58@Mobile2>

Oh you know what is real fun? Add some barium nitrate in there to make it
all pretty............. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:51 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI

Not to mention H2, CO, NO, CO2, N2, AL2O3, NH3, CH4, H and Cl...

Take the advice of the guy on WillitBlend.com, "Don't breathe this."

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:33 PM
To: 'W. Raymond Stoner'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] FYI

Yea, and a good dose of hydrochloric acid to boot. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:22 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI

I can clearly show that ~25% of the stuff that comes out of the motors I
build is good old water...of course, it's at about 2000 degrees C...

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:00 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI

Thanks for the info Dave,
Can I store my proposed water propellant in the magazine  in the 2 liter
bottles I am going to launch  or do I have to keep the propellant and casing
seperate till launch ?

Dustin,  ain't no Fool, Brown


From: Dave Connet <deyv at europa.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FYI
To: Dennis Winningstad <winningstad at comcast.net>


Really?  I heard ( although it was on Fox news, highly undependable ) that
water "if proposed use is as a rocket propellant . . ." is included.
That means that your magazine must hold water.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Wed Apr  1 20:04:39 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 20:04:39 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington State L&I - FYI
In-Reply-To: <003b01c9a744$9cd85dd0$d6891970$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <13916B0443484F94A40E4D7A68F1754D@Mobile2>	<F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB3FB4E403@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>	<A72FACF2C338451BA4EC5B416F3BFED9@Mobile2>	<F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB3FB4E420@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<003b01c9a744$9cd85dd0$d6891970$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <018a01c9b33f$c3e62040$4bb260c0$@net>

All,

I got my renewal notice this week and they have listed the following:
- $25.00 - Purchase
- $50.00 - 50# propellant magazine
- $50.00 - 100 detonators magazine
- $49.25 - background check

Has anyone else gotten a bill for detonator storage?

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:09 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington State L&I - FYI

Greetings all,

Although the L&I - Explosives Division is likely as thrilled as we are with
the NAR/TRA vs BATFE ruling yesterday, L&I regulations are treated as state
law and any changes have to be passed before the legislature.  

The L&I tells me that they will take next steps after hearing confirmation
from the ATF on what the ATF position is on the decision.  That is to say,
if the ATF acknowledges Judge Walton's ruling as most think they will, the
ATF will notify the L&I that they no longer have APCP on their low
explosives list.  The Explosives Division will pass on the ATF declaration
to a review board of the L&I, the board will ask for recommendations from
the Explosives Division, Explosives will respond favorably and the
legislative change process will begin.

If the ATF acknowledges the ruling to be immediate as we all do, that
communication should come fairly quickly; the State and ATF are in daily
contact.

Until then, the current state law regarding permitting remains as is.

FYI.

Regards,

Kent Newman
Washington Aerospace



_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 21:25:49 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:25:49 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Reminder; OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda April 2nd 2009
Message-ID: <004201c9b34b$1b56eb10$0601a8c0@LaptopKrausert>

Reminder
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 4:53 PM
  Subject: OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda April 2nd 2009


  The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on April 2nd 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. 
  Where: Giovanni's [ Map ]
  12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton 

  Agenda:
  7:30 : Motions by members collected
  7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville May & June Announcement [Packard]
  7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Show & Fly Event [Ryerse]
  7:45 : Highlight of Members / Length of Membership [Krausert]
  7:55 : Club Business Update 
            - Review of previous month minutes [Goncher]
            - Financial Update [Moscoe]
            - Have land owners cashed this years check? [Moscoe]
            - Annual 2007 CT-12 Filing [Moscoe]
            - Annual 2008 CT-12 2008 Address Change & Filing  [Moscoe]
            - NAR Section 555 Renewal Status [Moscoe]
            - Brothers FAA Waiver Update [Krausert]
  8:05 : Getting Started with EX / Research for TAR members [Ekstrom]
            - Enjoy a Q&A session with Pete Ekstrom of TeamNumb about getting started in EX/Research
            (Consider it the tip of the iceburg, but worth hearing how Pete got started and tips)

  I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Should be a good mix of information. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday April 2nd at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. First public OROC launch at Brothers from the time of the meeting is T-minus 1 months and a few days. 

  Cheers,
  Robert

-------------- next part --------------
Reminder
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com Robert Krausert
To:
mailto:members at oregonrocketry.org members at oregonrocketry.org
; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent:
Sunday, March 29, 2009 4:53 PM
Subject:
OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda April 2nd 2009
The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on April 2nd 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon.
Where: Giovanni's [
Map
]
12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton
Agenda:
7:30 : Motions by members collected
7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @?Wilsonville May & June Announcement [Packard]
7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Show & Fly Event [Ryerse]
7:45 : Highlight of Members / Length of Membership [Krausert]
7:55 : Club Business Update?
????????? - Review of previous month minutes [Goncher]
????????? - Financial Update [Moscoe]
????????? - Have land owners cashed this years check? [Moscoe]
????????? - Annual 2007 CT-12 Filing [Moscoe]
????????? - Annual 2008 CT-12 2008 Address Change & Filing? [Moscoe]
????????? - NAR Section 555 Renewal Status [Moscoe]
????????? - Brothers FAA Waiver Update [Krausert]
8:05 : Getting Started with EX / Research for TAR members [Ekstrom]
????????? - Enjoy a Q&A session with Pete Ekstrom of TeamNumb about getting started in?EX/Research
????????? (Consider it the tip of the iceburg, but worth hearing how Pete got started and tips)
I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Should be a good mix of information. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday April 2nd at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. First public OROC launch at Brothers from the time of the meeting is T-minus?1 months and a few days.
Cheers,
Robert

From winningstad at comcast.net  Thu Apr  2 03:57:55 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 03:57:55 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Reminder;
	OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda April 2nd 2009
In-Reply-To: <004201c9b34b$1b56eb10$0601a8c0@LaptopKrausert>
References: <004201c9b34b$1b56eb10$0601a8c0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <7B2E12B1A9CA438697A33EB0F92F2E89@downstair>

97005

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
 
It is bad luck to be superstitious.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 9:26 PM
To: Robert Krausert; members at oregonrocketry.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Reminder; OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda April 2nd 2009

Reminder
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: members at oregonrocketry.org ; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 4:53 PM
  Subject: OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda April 2nd 2009


  The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on April 2nd
2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. 
  Where: Giovanni's [ Map ]
  12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton 

  Agenda:
  7:30 : Motions by members collected
  7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville May & June Announcement
[Packard]
  7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Show & Fly Event [Ryerse]
  7:45 : Highlight of Members / Length of Membership [Krausert]
  7:55 : Club Business Update 
            - Review of previous month minutes [Goncher]
            - Financial Update [Moscoe]
            - Have land owners cashed this years check? [Moscoe]
            - Annual 2007 CT-12 Filing [Moscoe]
            - Annual 2008 CT-12 2008 Address Change & Filing  [Moscoe]
            - NAR Section 555 Renewal Status [Moscoe]
            - Brothers FAA Waiver Update [Krausert]
  8:05 : Getting Started with EX / Research for TAR members [Ekstrom]
            - Enjoy a Q&A session with Pete Ekstrom of TeamNumb about
getting started in EX/Research
            (Consider it the tip of the iceburg, but worth hearing how Pete
got started and tips)

  I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Should be a good mix of
information. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday April
2nd at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. First
public OROC launch at Brothers from the time of the meeting is T-minus 1
months and a few days. 

  Cheers,
  Robert



From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Thu Apr  2 12:21:47 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:21:47 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 60 Acres April Launch 12APR09 name
In-Reply-To: <5a1085980904010646m3e09a98bpb0db3c217b8a582d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15000184.1238553197284.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<5a1085980904010646m3e09a98bpb0db3c217b8a582d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D5104B.40708@earthlink.net>

Thank you for the ideas. I think it will be Spring Fever.

Robert

Mark Quinn wrote:
> I like "Up in Smoke". It reflects the state of my 401k quite accurately.
>  
> Mark Q
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:33 PM,
> < mailto:melamy at earthlink.net melamy at earthlink.net
>   
> wrote:
> given that April is National Financial Literacy Month and given that what our government is doing and also related to rocketry - I would call it "Up in Smoke" launch...
> regards, Steve Thatcher
>  
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   


From rcdm at outlawnet.com  Thu Apr  2 18:13:38 2009
From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:13:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets at Freddies
References: <bf3fe8020903212250o2dfdc79an1ba1b09f5ba58a25@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf3fe8020903212308h5eed4b12rf8b70dd2238a4556@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19D7D2F7875848DF843DA895B86387B0@DANE>

Just got a Fred Meyer 3 day sale flyer. They have models and accessories on sale for "buy 2 get one free" At the Redmond OR store they had C6-5 and B6-4 motors for $5.99 so on sale they're about $4 per pack.  Sale runs through Saturday. They also had a few RTF rockets. 

Just a heads up.

Rod M.
-------------- next part --------------
Just got a Fred Meyer 3 day sale flyer. They have models and accessories on sale for "buy 2 get one free" At the Redmond OR store they had C6-5 and B6-4 motors for $5.99 so on sale they're about $4 per pack.? Sale runs through Saturday. They also had a few RTF rockets.
?
Just a heads up.
?
Rod M.

From kent.newman at comcast.net  Thu Apr  2 20:21:40 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:21:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace Meeting - April 4th
Message-ID: <001201c9b40b$4ec011a0$ec4034e0$@newman@comcast.net>

Salutations, all!

 

Washington Aerospace will hold its April meeting this Saturday, April 4th,
7:00 p.m., at Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup.  Location details may be
found at www.washingtonaerospace.org.

 

Meetings topics will include:

 

-          L2 tests for NAR/TRA members (be sure to announce your intent
before the meeting)

-          UW test flights @ Black Rock - Robert Winglee - UW Dept. of Earth
and Space Sciences

-          April launch issues

-          TARC Reports

-          Club Public Address system update

-          FITS Update

-          Bill Wyvel - composite rocket project

-          Show and tell

-          General missile banter, sex, lies and rocket roll

 

Regards,

 

Kent Newman

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
Salutations, all!
?
Washington Aerospace will hold its April meeting this Saturday, April 4
th
, 7:00 p.m., at Peace Lutheran Church in Puyallup.? Location details may be found at http://www.washingtonaerospace.org www.washingtonaerospace.org
.
?
Meetings topics will include:
?
-
?????????
L2 tests for NAR/TRA members (be sure to announce your intent before the meeting)
-
?????????
UW test flights @ Black Rock ??? Robert Winglee ??? UW Dept. of Earth and Space Sciences
-
?????????
April launch issues
-
?????????
TARC Reports
-
?????????
Club Public Address system update
-
?????????
FITS Update
-
?????????
Bill Wyvel ??? composite rocket project
-
?????????
Show and tell
-
?????????
General missile banter, sex, lies and rocket roll
?
Regards,
?
Kent Newman
?
?

From tom.walsh at intel.com  Fri Apr  3 09:20:58 2009
From: tom.walsh at intel.com (Walsh, Tom)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:20:58 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
In-Reply-To: <001201c9b40b$4ec011a0$ec4034e0$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <001201c9b40b$4ec011a0$ec4034e0$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DCC64B3B6EAEA74BAD1D37E4F93AB69D27480A8E@orsmsx507.amr.corp.intel.com>

http://www.newsmax.com/us/baby_formula_perchlorate/2009/04/03/199257.html


Model rocket fuel burns slower than bond paper, but hey - it's dangerous
in other ways, so naughty children who want to fly model rockets will have
to be regulated...

And if that one fails, I'm sure they'll come up with a way in which the IRS
should be interested in regulating model rocketry - perhaps "reaching into
upper income airspace" or something...


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Fri Apr  3 09:50:46 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:50:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
In-Reply-To: <DCC64B3B6EAEA74BAD1D37E4F93AB69D27480A8E@orsmsx507.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <001201c9b40b$4ec011a0$ec4034e0$@newman@comcast.net>
	<DCC64B3B6EAEA74BAD1D37E4F93AB69D27480A8E@orsmsx507.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <9FFD3B3533D7408388E725581FD39118@Mobile2>

Yea, but it is also natural, fireworks, NASA, gopher bombs, some pool
chlorine.....those are the ones I saw so far on the TRA list this morning. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Walsh, Tom
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 9:21 AM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...

http://www.newsmax.com/us/baby_formula_perchlorate/2009/04/03/199257.html


Model rocket fuel burns slower than bond paper, but hey - it's dangerous in
other ways, so naughty children who want to fly model rockets will have to
be regulated...

And if that one fails, I'm sure they'll come up with a way in which the IRS
should be interested in regulating model rocketry - perhaps "reaching into
upper income airspace" or something...

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From terry at mooreread.com  Fri Apr  3 09:52:11 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:52:11 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
In-Reply-To: <DCC64B3B6EAEA74BAD1D37E4F93AB69D27480A8E@orsmsx507.amr.corp.intel.com>
References: <001201c9b40b$4ec011a0$ec4034e0$@newman@comcast.net>
	<DCC64B3B6EAEA74BAD1D37E4F93AB69D27480A8E@orsmsx507.amr.corp.intel.com>
Message-ID: <B8A4B1D1-04FC-465A-BDB6-EA157456560F@mooreread.com>

They always seem to forget that perchlorates show up in animal feed,  
fertilizer and so on.  A quick google search finds the following in a  
Canadian report "The other detections of perchlorate were in rivers/ 
creeks draining watersheds which had high density livestock and crop  
farming activity. We suspect the two are related"



On Apr 3, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Walsh, Tom wrote:

> http://www.newsmax.com/us/baby_formula_perchlorate/2009/04/03/199257.html
>
>
> Model rocket fuel burns slower than bond paper, but hey - it's  
> dangerous
> in other ways, so naughty children who want to fly model rockets  
> will have
> to be regulated...
>
> And if that one fails, I'm sure they'll come up with a way in which  
> the IRS
> should be interested in regulating model rocketry - perhaps  
> "reaching into
> upper income airspace" or something...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>


--
This message has been scanned for viruses
and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.

NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
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review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
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you have received this in error, please notify
the sender and delete the copy you received.

Thank You!

-------------- next part --------------
They always seem to forget that perchlorates show up in animal feed, fertilizer and so on. ?A quick google search finds the following in a Canadian report "
The other detections of perchlorate were in rivers/creeks draining watersheds which had high density livestock and crop farming activity. We suspect the two are related"
On Apr 3, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Walsh, Tom wrote:
http://www.newsmax.com/us/baby_formula_perchlorate/2009/04/03/199257.html http://www.newsmax.com/us/baby_formula_perchlorate/2009/04/03/199257.html
Model rocket fuel burns slower than bond paper, but hey - it's dangerous
in other ways, so naughty children who want to fly model rockets will have
to be regulated...
And if that one fails, I'm sure they'll come up with a way in which the IRS
should be interested in regulating model rocketry - perhaps "reaching into
upper income airspace" or something...
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
-- --
This message has been scanned for viruses
and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
privileged material, and is intended solely
for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
If you are not the recipient, and believe that
you have received this in error, please notify
the sender and delete the copy you received.
Thank You!

From jhadv at pacifier.com  Fri Apr  3 12:14:18 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:14:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1238785204.18774.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com>

As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on perchlorate 
in general which comes in at least the following five flavors, Ammonium, 
Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium.  It occurs naturally as Hydrogen 
Perchlorate which we call perchloric acid.  So why are we getting bent out 
of shape about this and the evil government?       


From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Fri Apr  3 15:11:49 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:11:49 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net>

Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2 a 
danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?

Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one or 
more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or EPA, to 
regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the EPA declared 
CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate Chaos.
http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-2009-3

Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the atmosphere 
than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F) 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1) 
also has a much lower thermal conductivity coefficient than CO2 ((20 
C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double and 
triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity and also 
used in scuba diving dry suits.

With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to the 
public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow to drive 
the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2 as a byproduct, 
through the roof with higher taxes and more regulation.

Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion? It's 
only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to our door step 
to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2 standpoint as well as a 
perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor technology may need to be 
developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once again.

Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use does 
that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to death and 
regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I could have it 
use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.

Robert

"Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of despotism?
Mary McCarthy
http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controlling-carbon-a-bureaucrat?s-dream-5109.htm



Paul Bogdanich wrote:
> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on perchlorate 
> in general which comes in at least the following five flavors, Ammonium, 
> Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium.  It occurs naturally as Hydrogen 
> Perchlorate which we call perchloric acid.  So why are we getting bent out 
> of shape about this and the evil government?       
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   


From jim at jmw29221.com  Fri Apr  3 19:33:21 2009
From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:33:21 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington State L&I - FYI
In-Reply-To: <018a01c9b33f$c3e62040$4bb260c0$@net>
References: <13916B0443484F94A40E4D7A68F1754D@Mobile2>	<F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB3FB4E403@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>	<A72FACF2C338451BA4EC5B416F3BFED9@Mobile2>	<F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB3FB4E420@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<003b01c9a744$9cd85dd0$d6891970$@newman@comcast.net>
	<018a01c9b33f$c3e62040$4bb260c0$@net>
Message-ID: <5619fe8a0e9fa2190fc96f369c96e599@mx1.blastzone.com>

Rocket types (per telecon with Jennifer Hall) do not need the Purchaser
license.
Don't know anything about detonators.  I had two magazines, but dropped one
due to the price increase.  You have to enclose a separate letter asking to
drop a magazine.

I tried various approaches to get rid of the background check requirement
(21 years military service, every-6-month FAA record checks on getting a
class 1 physical, annual background checks for volunteering at kids'
school) to no avail.  According to Mason, even the state/federal employees
have to get the check unless the license is specifically for them to
perform the duties of their state or federal job.  

Jennifer also told me that the 3-year plan (background check only) was
before the legislature.  License renewals will continue to be annual.

Regards
Jim

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 20:04:39 -0700, "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>
wrote:
> All,
> 
> I got my renewal notice this week and they have listed the following:
> - $25.00 - Purchase
> - $50.00 - 50# propellant magazine
> - $50.00 - 100 detonators magazine
> - $49.25 - background check
> 
> Has anyone else gotten a bill for detonator storage?
> 
> Marty
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Kent Newman
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:09 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington State L&I - FYI
> 
> Greetings all,
> 
> Although the L&I - Explosives Division is likely as thrilled as we are
with
> the NAR/TRA vs BATFE ruling yesterday, L&I regulations are treated as
state
> law and any changes have to be passed before the legislature.  
> 
> The L&I tells me that they will take next steps after hearing
confirmation
> from the ATF on what the ATF position is on the decision.  That is to
say,
> if the ATF acknowledges Judge Walton's ruling as most think they will,
the
> ATF will notify the L&I that they no longer have APCP on their low
> explosives list.  The Explosives Division will pass on the ATF
declaration
> to a review board of the L&I, the board will ask for recommendations from
> the Explosives Division, Explosives will respond favorably and the
> legislative change process will begin.
> 
> If the ATF acknowledges the ruling to be immediate as we all do, that
> communication should come fairly quickly; the State and ATF are in daily
> contact.
> 
> Until then, the current state law regarding permitting remains as is.
> 
> FYI.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kent Newman
> Washington Aerospace
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Fri Apr  3 21:18:24 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 21:18:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC Report from Sixty Acres
References: <001201c9b40b$4ec011a0$ec4034e0$@newman@comcast.net><DCC64B3B6EAEA74BAD1D37E4F93AB69D27480A8E@orsmsx507.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<9FFD3B3533D7408388E725581FD39118@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A4D@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

We had seven teams from three different schools out at Sixty Acres this afternoon.  It was a regular rocketpalooza out there. 
 
Ingraham High School's Alpha and Charlie companies both hit scores under 10.00 points--good enough to qualify for nationals, we hope!
 
Bravo company got a couple of near-miss flights in the twenties before things kind of went off the rails on them.  They lost both launch lugs and had an up-close and personal encounter with Sixty Acres' world famous rocket eating trees.  We'll get out for one last ditch effort on Monday and try to get them qualified.
 
Kentridge High School also had a couple of teams out there and one of them had a pretty good flight.  They hit their altitude target right on the nose, but were almost ten seconds off on the time.  Still, the under 20.00 point score isn't shabby, and with a little luck they'll make the finals in Virginia as well.
 
Lindbergh High School is fielding a couple of teams for the very first time this year.  Their sophomore team made it out for their first launch of the year and put in a good effort.  The neat thing was watching the Ingraham students go over and take the newbies under their wing.  The Lindbergh kids were trying to put together an RMS motor for the first time and it was befuddling them a bit, so the Ingraham kids passed on some of the tips they've learned from other NW rocketeers, and we got to watch the Lindbergh team have two successful flights.  Neither was any sort of threat to qualify, but I get the feeling that those young men will get out there next year and give it a great run.
 
Qualifying deadline is Monday night.  Here's hoping that folks in other parts of the Northwest are having good success too!
 
Peter Schurke
Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Fri Apr  3 23:50:59 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 23:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets at Freddies
In-Reply-To: <19D7D2F7875848DF843DA895B86387B0@DANE>
References: <bf3fe8020903212250o2dfdc79an1ba1b09f5ba58a25@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf3fe8020903212308h5eed4b12rf8b70dd2238a4556@mail.gmail.com>
	<19D7D2F7875848DF843DA895B86387B0@DANE>
Message-ID: <e756636940c2d16d58119541defb0dd8.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

I've never seen any rocket stuff at any Fred Meyer store I've been in.

Except for the hardware section of course.  And the automotive section. 
And the household section.  And I'm trying to remember but I think the
garden section too.

But never any Estes stuff.
+McG+


> Just got a Fred Meyer 3 day sale flyer. They have models and accessories
> on sale for "buy 2 get one free" At the Redmond OR store they had C6-5 and
> B6-4 motors for $5.99 so on sale they're about $4 per pack.? Sale runs
> through Saturday. They also had a few RTF rockets.
> ?
> Just a heads up.
> ?
> Rod M.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sat Apr  4 00:22:57 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
In-Reply-To: <49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com>
	<49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

You forgot the cow burps and goat farts.  They trying to tax those too but
they're not making personal inspections on the farms to gather data.  They
know farmers have pitchforks.  ;-)

It's all a manifestation of the underlying psychosis of a totalitarian
mindset.  Which, unfortunately, seems to be a communicable disease. 
There's a treatment for it, but they preemptively outlawed marijuana long
ago...whatever, dude.

Solar heated steam rockets.
+McG+


> Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2 a
> danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?
>
> Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one or
> more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or EPA, to
> regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the EPA declared
> CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate Chaos.
> http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-2009-3
>
> Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the atmosphere
> than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F) 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1)
> also has a much lower thermal conductivity coefficient than CO2 ((20
> C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double and
> triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity and also
> used in scuba diving dry suits.
>
> With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to the
> public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow to drive
> the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2 as a byproduct,
> through the roof with higher taxes and more regulation.
>
> Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion? It's
> only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to our door step
> to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2 standpoint as well as a
> perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor technology may need to be
> developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once again.
>
> Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use does
> that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to death and
> regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I could have it
> use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.
>
> Robert
>
> "Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of despotism?
> Mary McCarthy
> http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controlling-carbon-a-bureaucrat?s-dream-5109.htm
>
>
>
> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
>> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on
>> perchlorate
>> in general which comes in at least the following five flavors, Ammonium,
>> Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium.  It occurs naturally as
>> Hydrogen
>> Perchlorate which we call perchloric acid.  So why are we getting bent
>> out
>> of shape about this and the evil government?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 16:55:58 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:55:58 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] May'09; OROC Showcase Event: Parachutes / Recovery
Message-ID: <007401c9b580$e8098870$0601a8c0@LaptopKrausert>

OROC Showcase Event: Parachutes / Recovery

The OregonRocketry public launch in May will feature the Parachute / Recovery Showcase event on Saturday May 16th at 7:00pm. This showcase, we invite everyone to join us and share your particular chute packing technique. Do you roll it up? Do you do a special tri-fold with cord inside? Do you simply stuff the chute into the rocket? Do you use kevlar sheets and make a chute borritto?

Stop by the LCO area at 7:00pm, bring a parachute, and demonstrate your techniques for folding, packing and protecting your parachute. Do you create your own parachutes? The more the better. This should be a fun and informative event. Show your technique. See other members techniques. 

So if you're planning to attend the May Spring Thunder launch hosted by OregonRocketry in Brothers on May 15th - 17th, take a moment and stop by the LCO area at 7:00pm on Saturday May 16th and participate in the Parachute / Recovery Showcase Event. Not wanting to demonstrate? That's fine. Stop by and observe the techniques of others. 

Share, observe, get ideas, learn. Meet some new friends. Everyone is welcome at the Showcase.

Cheers,
Robert
-------------- next part --------------
OROC Showcase Event: Parachutes / Recovery
The OregonRocketry public launch in May will feature the Parachute / Recovery Showcase event on Saturday May 16th at 7:00pm. This showcase, we invite everyone to join us and share your particular chute packing technique. Do you roll it up? Do you do a special tri-fold with cord inside? Do you simply stuff the chute into the rocket? Do you use kevlar sheets and make a chute borritto?
Stop by the LCO area at 7:00pm, bring a parachute, and demonstrate your techniques for folding, packing and protecting your parachute. Do you create your own parachutes? The more the better. This should be a fun and informative event. Show your technique. See other members techniques.
So if you're planning to attend the May Spring Thunder launch hosted by OregonRocketry in Brothers on May 15th - 17th, take a moment and stop by the LCO area at 7:00pm on Saturday May 16th and participate in the Parachute / Recovery Showcase Event. Not wanting to demonstrate? That's fine. Stop by and observe the techniques of others.
Share, observe, get ideas, learn. Meet some new friends. Everyone is welcome at the Showcase.
Cheers,
Robert

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Sat Apr  4 19:53:56 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 19:53:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC Report from Sixty Acres
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A4D@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <001201c9b40b$4ec011a0$ec4034e0$@newman@comcast.net><DCC64B3B6EAEA74BAD1D37E4F93AB69D27480A8E@orsmsx507.amr.corp.intel.com>	<9FFD3B3533D7408388E725581FD39118@Mobile2>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A4D@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <00a401c9b599$c4401e90$4cc05bb0$@net>

Peter - Great job and very good scores.  CdA HS got a 57 on their first
flight which arced with the wind, a 61 on their 2nd which was not a qual
flight to try to compensate for the wind (it arced into the wind), and a
CATO on their third flight for which would have been their 2nd qual attempt.
Unfortunately, it was their last motor and did more damage to the rocket
than the one team member in town over spring break could repair.  I don't
think they will make it to nationals this year. - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 9:18 PM
To: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC Report from Sixty Acres

We had seven teams from three different schools out at Sixty Acres this
afternoon.  It was a regular rocketpalooza out there. 
 
Ingraham High School's Alpha and Charlie companies both hit scores under
10.00 points--good enough to qualify for nationals, we hope!
 
Bravo company got a couple of near-miss flights in the twenties before
things kind of went off the rails on them.  They lost both launch lugs and
had an up-close and personal encounter with Sixty Acres' world famous rocket
eating trees.  We'll get out for one last ditch effort on Monday and try to
get them qualified.
 
Kentridge High School also had a couple of teams out there and one of them
had a pretty good flight.  They hit their altitude target right on the nose,
but were almost ten seconds off on the time.  Still, the under 20.00 point
score isn't shabby, and with a little luck they'll make the finals in
Virginia as well.
 
Lindbergh High School is fielding a couple of teams for the very first time
this year.  Their sophomore team made it out for their first launch of the
year and put in a good effort.  The neat thing was watching the Ingraham
students go over and take the newbies under their wing.  The Lindbergh kids
were trying to put together an RMS motor for the first time and it was
befuddling them a bit, so the Ingraham kids passed on some of the tips
they've learned from other NW rocketeers, and we got to watch the Lindbergh
team have two successful flights.  Neither was any sort of threat to
qualify, but I get the feeling that those young men will get out there next
year and give it a great run.
 
Qualifying deadline is Monday night.  Here's hoping that folks in other
parts of the Northwest are having good success too!
 
Peter Schurke
Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From rocketsrfun at msn.com  Sat Apr  4 20:06:43 2009
From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 20:06:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fred Meyer's and Estees Rockets
Message-ID: <BAY103-DS1690E25A790EC5C758DB9BD870@phx.gbl>

It's true.. At least at the Fred Meyer's I go to on Pacific Hwy here in Tigard, OR. I only saw 2 starter kits, and one claimed to go 1300'. They also had 2 motors for purchase B6-4 and a C6-5. 

Don 
-------------- next part --------------
It's true.. At least at the Fred Meyer's I go to on Pacific Hwy here in Tigard, OR. I only saw 2 starter kits, and one claimed to go 1300'. They also had?2 motors?for purchase B6-4 and a C6-5.
?
Don?

From stefan_jones at comcast.net  Sat Apr  4 21:19:44 2009
From: stefan_jones at comcast.net (stefan_jones at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 04:19:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fred Meyer's and Estees Rockets
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-DS1690E25A790EC5C758DB9BD870@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <943067998.3484801238905184379.JavaMail.root@sz0038a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

I've seen "RTF" starter sets at Freddies now and then. Sometimes they're even advertised. 

Target has rockets during some seasons. One guy on the coast -- I'm not sure if he's a member -- once bought a sack full of Quest "A" motors from a Bi-Mart clearance bin. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Harris" <rocketsrfun at msn.com> 
To: "Rockets NW" <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 8:06:43 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fred Meyer's and Estees Rockets 

It's true.. At least at the Fred Meyer's I go to on Pacific Hwy here in Tigard, OR. I only saw 2 starter kits, and one claimed to go 1300'. They also had 2 motors for purchase B6-4 and a C6-5. Don 
-------------- next part --------------
I've seen "RTF" starter sets at Freddies now and then. Sometimes they're even advertised.
Target has rockets during some seasons. One guy on the coast -- I'm not sure if he's a member -- once bought a sack full of Quest "A" motors from a Bi-Mart clearance bin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Harris" <rocketsrfun at msn.com>
To: "Rockets NW" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 8:06:43 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [RocketsNW] Fred Meyer's and Estees Rockets
It's true.. At least at the Fred Meyer's I go to on Pacific Hwy here in Tigard, OR. I only saw 2 starter kits, and one claimed to go 1300'. They also had 2 motors for purchase B6-4 and a C6-5. Don?

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Sun Apr  5 08:52:22 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 08:52:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
In-Reply-To: <09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com>	<49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net>
	<09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <49D8D3B6.1000600@earthlink.net>

Obviously you have not kept up with the news of Fedzilla's National 
Animal Identification System (NAIS).
http://www.newswithviews.com/Morrison/joyce23.htm
http://nonais.org/

What is NAIS?

The USDA?s proposed National Animal Identification System (NAIS) was 
originally designed to give the big beef producers help in getting 
export markets which required disease controls. The idea is that every 
single livestock animal in the United States will be identified and 
tagged. All livestock animal movements will be tracked, logged and 
reported to the government. The benefit is to the big factory farms who 
probably do need this type of regulation. They get to do single ID?s for 
large groups of animals. Small farmers, pet owners and homesteaders will 
have to tag and track every single animal.

There are no exceptions - even small farms that sell direct to local 
consumers will be required to pay the fees and file all the paper work 
on all their animals. Even horse, llama and other pet owners will be 
required to participate in NAIS. Homesteaders who raise their own meat 
and grandma with her one egg hen will also have to register their homes 
as ?farm premises? and obtain a Premise ID, tag all their animals and 
submit all the paperwork and fees. Absurd? Yes - There are no exceptions 
under the current NAIS plan. The USDA has slipped this plan in the back 
door without any legislation. This is going to be very expensive and 
guess who is going to pay for it in higher food prices? You!

kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
> You forgot the cow burps and goat farts.  They trying to tax those too but
> they're not making personal inspections on the farms to gather data.  They
> know farmers have pitchforks.  ;-)
>
> It's all a manifestation of the underlying psychosis of a totalitarian
> mindset.  Which, unfortunately, seems to be a communicable disease. 
> There's a treatment for it, but they preemptively outlawed marijuana long
> ago...whatever, dude.
>
> Solar heated steam rockets.
> +McG+
>
>
>   
>> Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2 a
>> danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?
>>
>> Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one or
>> more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or EPA, to
>> regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the EPA declared
>> CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate Chaos.
>> http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-2009-3
>>
>> Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the atmosphere
>> than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F) 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1)
>> also has a much lower thermal conductivity coefficient than CO2 ((20
>> C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double and
>> triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity and also
>> used in scuba diving dry suits.
>>
>> With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to the
>> public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow to drive
>> the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2 as a byproduct,
>> through the roof with higher taxes and more regulation.
>>
>> Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion? It's
>> only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to our door step
>> to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2 standpoint as well as a
>> perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor technology may need to be
>> developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once again.
>>
>> Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use does
>> that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to death and
>> regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I could have it
>> use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> "Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of despotism?
>> Mary McCarthy
>> http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controlling-carbon-a-bureaucrat?s-dream-5109.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
>>     
>>> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on
>>> perchlorate
>>> in general which comes in at least the following five flavors, Ammonium,
>>> Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium.  It occurs naturally as
>>> Hydrogen
>>> Perchlorate which we call perchloric acid.  So why are we getting bent
>>> out
>>> of shape about this and the evil government?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   


From kharms at olypen.com  Sun Apr  5 09:03:57 2009
From: kharms at olypen.com (Kimberly Harms)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:03:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY
	OFF TOPIC.
In-Reply-To: <49D8D3B6.1000600@earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com>	<49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net>	<09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<49D8D3B6.1000600@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <006501c9b608$22916f80$67b44e80$@com>

First off, what does this have to do with Rocketry in the Northwest?  

Second, why is the off topic stuff that gets posted always anti-government
right wing-nut stuff ?

Third, why not do a bit of reading on the benefits rather than this "go it
alone and screw the rest of the world as long as I can make maximum profits"
stuff ?

This from the Oregon Department of Agriculture.:

" The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is a voluntary
countrywide program intended to enhance animal traceability efforts in
controlling the spread of animal diseases. The U.S. Department of
Agriculture (USDA) in cooperation with state agencies and the livestock
industry is developing the system. When fully developed, it should allow
traceability of diseased or exposed animals within 48 hours of the disease
outbreak. It should help ensure rapid disease containment and maximum
protection of America's livestock animals."

Kimberly Harms
Apparently the last progressive involved in Rocketry and a person who
doesn't assume that the best of all worlds is a world with zero regulation.




-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Hammer
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:52 AM
To: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...

Obviously you have not kept up with the news of Fedzilla's National 
Animal Identification System (NAIS).
http://www.newswithviews.com/Morrison/joyce23.htm
http://nonais.org/

What is NAIS?

The USDA's proposed National Animal Identification System (NAIS) was 
originally designed to give the big beef producers help in getting 
export markets which required disease controls. The idea is that every 
single livestock animal in the United States will be identified and 
tagged. All livestock animal movements will be tracked, logged and 
reported to the government. The benefit is to the big factory farms who 
probably do need this type of regulation. They get to do single ID's for 
large groups of animals. Small farmers, pet owners and homesteaders will 
have to tag and track every single animal.

There are no exceptions - even small farms that sell direct to local 
consumers will be required to pay the fees and file all the paper work 
on all their animals. Even horse, llama and other pet owners will be 
required to participate in NAIS. Homesteaders who raise their own meat 
and grandma with her one egg hen will also have to register their homes 
as 'farm premises' and obtain a Premise ID, tag all their animals and 
submit all the paperwork and fees. Absurd? Yes - There are no exceptions 
under the current NAIS plan. The USDA has slipped this plan in the back 
door without any legislation. This is going to be very expensive and 
guess who is going to pay for it in higher food prices. You!

kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
> You forgot the cow burps and goat farts.  They trying to tax those too but
> they're not making personal inspections on the farms to gather data.  They
> know farmers have pitchforks.  ;-)
>
> It's all a manifestation of the underlying psychosis of a totalitarian
> mindset.  Which, unfortunately, seems to be a communicable disease. 
> There's a treatment for it, but they preemptively outlawed marijuana long
> ago...whatever, dude.
>
> Solar heated steam rockets.
> +McG+
>
>
>   
>> Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2 a
>> danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?
>>
>> Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one or
>> more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or EPA, to
>> regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the EPA declared
>> CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate Chaos.
>> http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-2009-3
>>
>> Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the atmosphere
>> than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F) 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1)
>> also has a much lower thermal conductivity coefficient than CO2 ((20
>> C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double and
>> triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity and also
>> used in scuba diving dry suits.
>>
>> With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to the
>> public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow to drive
>> the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2 as a byproduct,
>> through the roof with higher taxes and more regulation.
>>
>> Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion? It's
>> only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to our door step
>> to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2 standpoint as well as a
>> perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor technology may need to be
>> developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once again.
>>
>> Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use does
>> that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to death and
>> regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I could have it
>> use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> "Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of
despotism"
>> Mary McCarthy
>>
http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controlling-carbon
-a-bureaucrat's-dream-5109.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
>>     
>>> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on
>>> perchlorate
>>> in general which comes in at least the following five flavors, Ammonium,
>>> Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium.  It occurs naturally as
>>> Hydrogen
>>> Perchlorate which we call perchloric acid.  So why are we getting bent
>>> out
>>> of shape about this and the evil government?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From deyv at europa.com  Sun Apr  5 09:14:48 2009
From: deyv at europa.com (Dave Connet)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:14:48 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY
 OFF TOPIC.
In-Reply-To: <006501c9b608$22916f80$67b44e80$@com>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com>	<49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net>	<09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>	<49D8D3B6.1000600@earthlink.net>
	<006501c9b608$22916f80$67b44e80$@com>
Message-ID: <49D8D8F8.3030100@europa.com>

Amen.


Kimberly Harms wrote:
> First off, what does this have to do with Rocketry in the Northwest?  
>
> Second, why is the off topic stuff that gets posted always anti-government
> right wing-nut stuff ?
>
> Third, why not do a bit of reading on the benefits rather than this "go it
> alone and screw the rest of the world as long as I can make maximum profits"
> stuff ?
>
> This from the Oregon Department of Agriculture.:
>
> " The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is a voluntary
> countrywide program intended to enhance animal traceability efforts in
> controlling the spread of animal diseases. The U.S. Department of
> Agriculture (USDA) in cooperation with state agencies and the livestock
> industry is developing the system. When fully developed, it should allow
> traceability of diseased or exposed animals within 48 hours of the disease
> outbreak. It should help ensure rapid disease containment and maximum
> protection of America's livestock animals."
>
> Kimberly Harms
> Apparently the last progressive involved in Rocketry and a person who
> doesn't assume that the best of all worlds is a world with zero regulation.
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>
>


-------------- next part --------------
Amen.
Kimberly Harms wrote:
First off, what does this have to do with Rocketry in the Northwest? Second, why is the off topic stuff that gets posted always anti-government right wing-nut stuff ? Third, why not do a bit of reading on the benefits rather than this "go it alone and screw the rest of the world as long as I can make maximum profits" stuff ? This from the Oregon Department of Agriculture.: " The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is a voluntary countrywide program intended to enhance animal traceability efforts in controlling the spread of animal diseases. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) in cooperation with state agencies and the livestock industry is developing the system. When fully developed, it should allow traceability of diseased or exposed animals within 48 hours of the disease outbreak. It should help ensure rapid disease containment and maximum protection of America's livestock animals." Kimberly Harms Apparently the last progressive involved in Rocketry and a person who doesn't assume that the best of all worlds is a world with zero regulation.
___________________________________________

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Sun Apr  5 09:29:23 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:29:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Judge Walton's decision and Goddard Day
Message-ID: <49D8DC63.6030200@earthlink.net>

I received my new April 2009 Tripoli Report with a good portion 
dedicated to the decision Judge Walton made on 16MAR09.  In "Words from 
the President" by Ken Good

"I will close this happy discussion with message
excerpt from my good friend, lifetime member,
and Tripoli founding father, Francis G. Graham:

"It is interesting that the ruling came on March
16, 'Goddard Day.'  On March 16, 1926, Robert
H. Goddard launched the first liquid fuel rocket.
Goddard was actually threatened with jail for
fireworks violations for inventing the rocket that
made space travel possible. Has the govern-
ment not learned anything since 1926?
Yes it has. And Judge Reggie Walton taught it
to them.  Existing laws against existing evils
cannot be stretched definitionally and arbitrarily
to cover novel methods.
Astraea was the goddess of Justice, whose
breast Ashcroft covered, and who was the last
of the immortals to leave the Earth. Has she
returned? Astraea redux? Dare we hope?
Per ardua ad Astraea!" "
(ed: Through struggles to the Stars)

On 15MAY09 will be the 60th day of the appeals window for the BATFE.  
Hopefully this won't happen and we can purchase AP motors without 
Fedzilla's red tape just in time for Fire In The Sky 2009.

Robert

From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net  Sun Apr  5 09:58:20 2009
From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 09:58:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY
 OFF TOPIC.
In-Reply-To: <006501c9b608$22916f80$67b44e80$@com>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com>	<49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net>	<09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>	<49D8D3B6.1000600@earthlink.net>
	<006501c9b608$22916f80$67b44e80$@com>
Message-ID: <49D8E32C.1020701@earthlink.net>

Here we go again!  Yes!!!!!

Your Leftist response with your character assassination by calling me an 
anti-government, right-wing nut isn't going to fly here, but it is a 
classic tactical move used for generations to shut those people up who 
disagree with government sprawl into every single facet of our lives.

Since you enjoy Big Government with big and onerous regulations, are the 
current regulations on AP rocket propellant enough to make you feel 
safe?  Are you looking forward to the appeal by the BATFE?  How much 
regulation is not enough or too much for you?

The NAIS as well as Real ID  are simply other examples of how government 
is using its power to give us more supposed safety at the cost of our 
freedom and liberty and our wallets.  Two-thirds of the cost of any 
product you purchase today is due to government regulation.  Our country 
was founded on keeping government to a minimum.  I am not against 
government at all as long as it stays within the framework of its 
Constitutional limits.  This does require each citizen to behave 
themselves by being self-governing.  As the citizenry becomes less 
internally, self-governing more government is required to apply external 
controls upon them.

Hobby rocketry has survived to this point because rocketeers are 
self-governing and self-regulating.  As long as we prove to Fedzilla and 
its subsidiaries (the States) that we can do such, like we have done 
with Judge Walton, we will continue to enjoy the sweet taste of the 
freedom and liberty to design, build and fly rocket airframes and motors.

I heard North Korea, Cuba, and Iran have invitations extended to you for 
permanent residence there.  Won't be able to fly any hobby rockets there 
though.

Robert

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin




Kimberly Harms wrote:
> First off, what does this have to do with Rocketry in the Northwest?  
>
> Second, why is the off topic stuff that gets posted always anti-government
> right wing-nut stuff ?
>
> Third, why not do a bit of reading on the benefits rather than this "go it
> alone and screw the rest of the world as long as I can make maximum profits"
> stuff ?
>
> This from the Oregon Department of Agriculture.:
>
> " The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is a voluntary
> countrywide program intended to enhance animal traceability efforts in
> controlling the spread of animal diseases. The U.S. Department of
> Agriculture (USDA) in cooperation with state agencies and the livestock
> industry is developing the system. When fully developed, it should allow
> traceability of diseased or exposed animals within 48 hours of the disease
> outbreak. It should help ensure rapid disease containment and maximum
> protection of America's livestock animals."
>
> Kimberly Harms
> Apparently the last progressive involved in Rocketry and a person who
> doesn't assume that the best of all worlds is a world with zero regulation.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Hammer
> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:52 AM
> To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
>
> Obviously you have not kept up with the news of Fedzilla's National 
> Animal Identification System (NAIS).
> http://www.newswithviews.com/Morrison/joyce23.htm
> http://nonais.org/
>
> What is NAIS?
>
> The USDA's proposed National Animal Identification System (NAIS) was 
> originally designed to give the big beef producers help in getting 
> export markets which required disease controls. The idea is that every 
> single livestock animal in the United States will be identified and 
> tagged. All livestock animal movements will be tracked, logged and 
> reported to the government. The benefit is to the big factory farms who 
> probably do need this type of regulation. They get to do single ID's for 
> large groups of animals. Small farmers, pet owners and homesteaders will 
> have to tag and track every single animal.
>
> There are no exceptions - even small farms that sell direct to local 
> consumers will be required to pay the fees and file all the paper work 
> on all their animals. Even horse, llama and other pet owners will be 
> required to participate in NAIS. Homesteaders who raise their own meat 
> and grandma with her one egg hen will also have to register their homes 
> as 'farm premises' and obtain a Premise ID, tag all their animals and 
> submit all the paperwork and fees. Absurd? Yes - There are no exceptions 
> under the current NAIS plan. The USDA has slipped this plan in the back 
> door without any legislation. This is going to be very expensive and 
> guess who is going to pay for it in higher food prices. You!
>
> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
>   
>> You forgot the cow burps and goat farts.  They trying to tax those too but
>> they're not making personal inspections on the farms to gather data.  They
>> know farmers have pitchforks.  ;-)
>>
>> It's all a manifestation of the underlying psychosis of a totalitarian
>> mindset.  Which, unfortunately, seems to be a communicable disease. 
>> There's a treatment for it, but they preemptively outlawed marijuana long
>> ago...whatever, dude.
>>
>> Solar heated steam rockets.
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2 a
>>> danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?
>>>
>>> Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one or
>>> more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or EPA, to
>>> regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the EPA declared
>>> CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate Chaos.
>>> http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-2009-3
>>>
>>> Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the atmosphere
>>> than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F) 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1)
>>> also has a much lower thermal conductivity coefficient than CO2 ((20
>>> C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double and
>>> triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity and also
>>> used in scuba diving dry suits.
>>>
>>> With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to the
>>> public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow to drive
>>> the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2 as a byproduct,
>>> through the roof with higher taxes and more regulation.
>>>
>>> Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion? It's
>>> only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to our door step
>>> to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2 standpoint as well as a
>>> perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor technology may need to be
>>> developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once again.
>>>
>>> Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use does
>>> that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to death and
>>> regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I could have it
>>> use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> "Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of
>>>       
> despotism"
>   
>>> Mary McCarthy
>>>
>>>       
> http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controlling-carbon
> -a-bureaucrat's-dream-5109.htm
>   
>>>
>>> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on
>>>> perchlorate
>>>> in general which comes in at least the following five flavors, Ammonium,
>>>> Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium.  It occurs naturally as
>>>> Hydrogen
>>>> Perchlorate which we call perchloric acid.  So why are we getting bent
>>>> out
>>>> of shape about this and the evil government?
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Rockets mailing list
>>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>   
>>
>>   
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
>
>   


From appusher at q.com  Sun Apr  5 10:11:36 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 17:11:36 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY
 OFF TOPIC.
In-Reply-To: <49D8E32C.1020701@earthlink.net>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com>
	<49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net>
	<09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<49D8D3B6.1000600@earthlink.net>	<006501c9b608$22916f80$67b44e80$@com> 
	<49D8E32C.1020701@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W17C1C4B18F2CD204DB93D2DC870@phx.gbl>


Let it go, Robert.

 

This is a friendly rocket hobbyist forum of folks that just want to catch the thrill of watching what they build fly or crash.

Our results are not always what we expect......but are always exciting.

 

Government regulation is important in some ways.  But only in a way that prevents us from getting the thrill.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:58:20 -0700
> From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.
> 
> Here we go again! Yes!!!!!
> 
> Your Leftist response with your character assassination by calling me an 
> anti-government, right-wing nut isn't going to fly here, but it is a 
> classic tactical move used for generations to shut those people up who 
> disagree with government sprawl into every single facet of our lives.
> 
> Since you enjoy Big Government with big and onerous regulations, are the 
> current regulations on AP rocket propellant enough to make you feel 
> safe? Are you looking forward to the appeal by the BATFE? How much 
> regulation is not enough or too much for you?
> 
> The NAIS as well as Real ID are simply other examples of how government 
> is using its power to give us more supposed safety at the cost of our 
> freedom and liberty and our wallets. Two-thirds of the cost of any 
> product you purchase today is due to government regulation. Our country 
> was founded on keeping government to a minimum. I am not against 
> government at all as long as it stays within the framework of its 
> Constitutional limits. This does require each citizen to behave 
> themselves by being self-governing. As the citizenry becomes less 
> internally, self-governing more government is required to apply external 
> controls upon them.
> 
> Hobby rocketry has survived to this point because rocketeers are 
> self-governing and self-regulating. As long as we prove to Fedzilla and 
> its subsidiaries (the States) that we can do such, like we have done 
> with Judge Walton, we will continue to enjoy the sweet taste of the 
> freedom and liberty to design, build and fly rocket airframes and motors.
> 
> I heard North Korea, Cuba, and Iran have invitations extended to you for 
> permanent residence there. Won't be able to fly any hobby rockets there 
> though.
> 
> Robert
> 
> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> -Benjamin Franklin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kimberly Harms wrote:
> > First off, what does this have to do with Rocketry in the Northwest? 
> >
> > Second, why is the off topic stuff that gets posted always anti-government
> > right wing-nut stuff ?
> >
> > Third, why not do a bit of reading on the benefits rather than this "go it
> > alone and screw the rest of the world as long as I can make maximum profits"
> > stuff ?
> >
> > This from the Oregon Department of Agriculture.:
> >
> > " The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is a voluntary
> > countrywide program intended to enhance animal traceability efforts in
> > controlling the spread of animal diseases. The U.S. Department of
> > Agriculture (USDA) in cooperation with state agencies and the livestock
> > industry is developing the system. When fully developed, it should allow
> > traceability of diseased or exposed animals within 48 hours of the disease
> > outbreak. It should help ensure rapid disease containment and maximum
> > protection of America's livestock animals."
> >
> > Kimberly Harms
> > Apparently the last progressive involved in Rocketry and a person who
> > doesn't assume that the best of all worlds is a world with zero regulation.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Hammer
> > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:52 AM
> > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
> >
> > Obviously you have not kept up with the news of Fedzilla's National 
> > Animal Identification System (NAIS).
> > http://www.newswithviews.com/Morrison/joyce23.htm
> > http://nonais.org/
> >
> > What is NAIS?
> >
> > The USDA's proposed National Animal Identification System (NAIS) was 
> > originally designed to give the big beef producers help in getting 
> > export markets which required disease controls. The idea is that every 
> > single livestock animal in the United States will be identified and 
> > tagged. All livestock animal movements will be tracked, logged and 
> > reported to the government. The benefit is to the big factory farms who 
> > probably do need this type of regulation. They get to do single ID's for 
> > large groups of animals. Small farmers, pet owners and homesteaders will 
> > have to tag and track every single animal.
> >
> > There are no exceptions - even small farms that sell direct to local 
> > consumers will be required to pay the fees and file all the paper work 
> > on all their animals. Even horse, llama and other pet owners will be 
> > required to participate in NAIS. Homesteaders who raise their own meat 
> > and grandma with her one egg hen will also have to register their homes 
> > as 'farm premises' and obtain a Premise ID, tag all their animals and 
> > submit all the paperwork and fees. Absurd? Yes - There are no exceptions 
> > under the current NAIS plan. The USDA has slipped this plan in the back 
> > door without any legislation. This is going to be very expensive and 
> > guess who is going to pay for it in higher food prices. You!
> >
> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
> > 
> >> You forgot the cow burps and goat farts. They trying to tax those too but
> >> they're not making personal inspections on the farms to gather data. They
> >> know farmers have pitchforks. ;-)
> >>
> >> It's all a manifestation of the underlying psychosis of a totalitarian
> >> mindset. Which, unfortunately, seems to be a communicable disease. 
> >> There's a treatment for it, but they preemptively outlawed marijuana long
> >> ago...whatever, dude.
> >>
> >> Solar heated steam rockets.
> >> +McG+
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2 a
> >>> danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?
> >>>
> >>> Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one or
> >>> more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or EPA, to
> >>> regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the EPA declared
> >>> CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate Chaos.
> >>> http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-2009-3
> >>>
> >>> Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the atmosphere
> >>> than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F) 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1)
> >>> also has a much lower thermal conductivity coefficient than CO2 ((20
> >>> C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double and
> >>> triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity and also
> >>> used in scuba diving dry suits.
> >>>
> >>> With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to the
> >>> public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow to drive
> >>> the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2 as a byproduct,
> >>> through the roof with higher taxes and more regulation.
> >>>
> >>> Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion? It's
> >>> only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to our door step
> >>> to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2 standpoint as well as a
> >>> perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor technology may need to be
> >>> developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once again.
> >>>
> >>> Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use does
> >>> that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to death and
> >>> regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I could have it
> >>> use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.
> >>>
> >>> Robert
> >>>
> >>> "Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of
> >>> 
> > despotism"
> > 
> >>> Mary McCarthy
> >>>
> >>> 
> > http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controlling-carbon
> > -a-bureaucrat's-dream-5109.htm
> > 
> >>>
> >>> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on
> >>>> perchlorate
> >>>> in general which comes in at least the following five flavors, Ammonium,
> >>>> Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium. It occurs naturally as
> >>>> Hydrogen
> >>>> Perchlorate which we call perchloric acid. So why are we getting bent
> >>>> out
> >>>> of shape about this and the evil government?
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Rockets mailing list
> >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> 
> >>
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> >
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
Let it go, Robert.
?
This is a friendly rocket hobbyist forum of folks that just want to catch the thrill of watching what they build fly or crash.
Our results are not always what we expect......but are always exciting.
?
Government regulation is important in some ways.? But only in a way that prevents us from getting the thrill.
?
Bill
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:58:20 -0700
> From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.
>
> Here we go again! Yes!!!!!
>
> Your Leftist response with your character assassination by calling me an
> anti-government, right-wing nut isn't going to fly here, but it is a
> classic tactical move used for generations to shut those people up who
> disagree with government sprawl into every single facet of our lives.
>
> Since you enjoy Big Government with big and onerous regulations, are the
> current regulations on AP rocket propellant enough to make you feel
> safe? Are you looking forward to the appeal by the BATFE? How much
> regulation is not enough or too much for you?
>
> The NAIS as well as Real ID are simply other examples of how government
> is using its power to give us more supposed safety at the cost of our
> freedom and liberty and our wallets. Two-thirds of the cost of any
> product you purchase today is due to government regulation. Our country
> was founded on keeping government to a minimum. I am not against
> government at all as long as it stays within the framework of its
> Constitutional limits. This does require each citizen to behave
> themselves by being self-governing. As the citizenry becomes less
> internally, self-governing more government is required to apply external
> controls upon them.
>
> Hobby rocketry has survived to this point because rocketeers are
> self-governing and self-regulating. As long as we prove to Fedzilla and
> its subsidiaries (the States) that we can do such, like we have done
> with Judge Walton, we will continue to enjoy the sweet taste of the
> freedom and liberty to design, build and fly rocket airframes and motors.
>
> I heard North Korea, Cuba, and Iran have invitations extended to you for
> permanent residence there. Won't be able to fly any hobby rockets there
> though.
>
> Robert
>
> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> -Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
>
> Kimberly Harms wrote:
> > First off, what does this have to do with Rocketry in the Northwest?
> >
> > Second, why is the off topic stuff that gets posted always anti-government
> > right wing-nut stuff ?
> >
> > Third, why not do a bit of reading on the benefits rather than this "go it
> > alone and screw the rest of the world as long as I can make maximum profits"
> > stuff ?
> >
> > This from the Oregon Department of Agriculture.:
> >
> > " The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is a voluntary
> > countrywide program intended to enhance animal traceability efforts in
> > controlling the spread of animal diseases. The U.S. Department of
> > Agriculture (USDA) in cooperation with state agencies and the livestock
> > industry is developing the system. When fully developed, it should allow
> > traceability of diseased or exposed animals within 48 hours of the disease
> > outbreak. It should help ensure rapid disease containment and maximum
> > protection of America's livestock animals."
> >
> > Kimberly Harms
> > Apparently the last progressive involved in Rocketry and a person who
> > doesn't assume that the best of all worlds is a world with zero regulation.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Hammer
> > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:52 AM
> > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
> >
> > Obviously you have not kept up with the news of Fedzilla's National
> > Animal Identification System (NAIS).
> > http://www.newswithviews.com/Morrison/joyce23.htm
> > http://nonais.org/
> >
> > What is NAIS?
> >
> > The USDA's proposed National Animal Identification System (NAIS) was
> > originally designed to give the big beef producers help in getting
> > export markets which required disease controls. The idea is that every
> > single livestock animal in the United States will be identified and
> > tagged. All livestock animal movements will be tracked, logged and
> > reported to the government. The benefit is to the big factory farms who
> > probably do need this type of regulation. They get to do single ID's for
> > large groups of animals. Small farmers, pet owners and homesteaders will
> > have to tag and track every single animal.
> >
> > There are no exceptions - even small farms that sell direct to local
> > consumers will be required to pay the fees and file all the paper work
> > on all their animals. Even horse, llama and other pet owners will be
> > required to participate in NAIS. Homesteaders who raise their own meat
> > and grandma with her one egg hen will also have to register their homes
> > as 'farm premises' and obtain a Premise ID, tag all their animals and
> > submit all the paperwork and fees. Absurd? Yes - There are no exceptions
> > under the current NAIS plan. The USDA has slipped this plan in the back
> > door without any legislation. This is going to be very expensive and
> > guess who is going to pay for it in higher food prices. You!
> >
> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
> >
> >> You forgot the cow burps and goat farts. They trying to tax those too but
> >> they're not making personal inspections on the farms to gather data. They
> >> know farmers have pitchforks. ;-)
> >>
> >> It's all a manifestation of the underlying psychosis of a totalitarian
> >> mindset. Which, unfortunately, seems to be a communicable disease.
> >> There's a treatment for it, but they preemptively outlawed marijuana long
> >> ago...whatever, dude.
> >>
> >> Solar heated steam rockets.
> >> +McG+
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2 a
> >>> danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?
> >>>
> >>> Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one or
> >>> more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or EPA, to
> >>> regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the EPA declared
> >>> CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate Chaos.
> >>> http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-2009-3
> >>>
> >>> Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the atmosphere
> >>> than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F) 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1)
> >>> also has a much lower thermal conductivity coefficient than CO2 ((20
> >>> C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double and
> >>> triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity and also
> >>> used in scuba diving dry suits.
> >>>
> >>> With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to the
> >>> public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow to drive
> >>> the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2 as a byproduct,
> >>> through the roof with higher taxes and more regulation.
> >>>
> >>> Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion? It's
> >>> only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to our door step
> >>> to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2 standpoint as well as a
> >>> perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor technology may need to be
> >>> developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once again.
> >>>
> >>> Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use does
> >>> that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to death and
> >>> regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I could have it
> >>> use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.
> >>>
> >>> Robert
> >>>
> >>> "Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of
> >>>
> > despotism"
> >
> >>> Mary McCarthy
> >>>
> >>>
> > http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controlling-carbon
> > -a-bureaucrat's-dream-5109.htm
> >
> >>>
> >>> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on
> >>>> perchlorate
> >>>> in general which comes in at least the following five flavors, Ammonium,
> >>>> Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium. It occurs naturally as
> >>>> Hydrogen
> >>>> Perchlorate which we call perchloric acid. So why are we getting bent
> >>>> out
> >>>> of shape about this and the evil government?
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Rockets mailing list
> >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Sun Apr  5 12:08:05 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:08:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY
	OFF TOPIC.
In-Reply-To: <BLU145-W17C1C4B18F2CD204DB93D2DC870@phx.gbl>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com><49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net><09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com><49D8D3B6.1000600@earthlink.net>	<006501c9b608$22916f80$67b44e80$@com>
	<49D8E32C.1020701@earthlink.net>
	<BLU145-W17C1C4B18F2CD204DB93D2DC870@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B8759E01BF36443D8642F15E4CE819AB@Mobile2>

I agree, the post by you and Kimberly were not on topic, let it go please. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:12 AM
To: Robert Nech; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY
OFF TOPIC.


Let it go, Robert.

 

This is a friendly rocket hobbyist forum of folks that just want to catch
the thrill of watching what they build fly or crash.

Our results are not always what we expect......but are always exciting.

 

Government regulation is important in some ways.  But only in a way that
prevents us from getting the thrill.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:58:20 -0700
> From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.
> 
> Here we go again! Yes!!!!!
> 
> Your Leftist response with your character assassination by calling me 
> an anti-government, right-wing nut isn't going to fly here, but it is 
> a classic tactical move used for generations to shut those people up 
> who disagree with government sprawl into every single facet of our lives.
> 
> Since you enjoy Big Government with big and onerous regulations, are 
> the current regulations on AP rocket propellant enough to make you 
> feel safe? Are you looking forward to the appeal by the BATFE? How 
> much regulation is not enough or too much for you?
> 
> The NAIS as well as Real ID are simply other examples of how 
> government is using its power to give us more supposed safety at the 
> cost of our freedom and liberty and our wallets. Two-thirds of the 
> cost of any product you purchase today is due to government 
> regulation. Our country was founded on keeping government to a 
> minimum. I am not against government at all as long as it stays within 
> the framework of its Constitutional limits. This does require each 
> citizen to behave themselves by being self-governing. As the citizenry 
> becomes less internally, self-governing more government is required to 
> apply external controls upon them.
> 
> Hobby rocketry has survived to this point because rocketeers are 
> self-governing and self-regulating. As long as we prove to Fedzilla 
> and its subsidiaries (the States) that we can do such, like we have 
> done with Judge Walton, we will continue to enjoy the sweet taste of 
> the freedom and liberty to design, build and fly rocket airframes and
motors.
> 
> I heard North Korea, Cuba, and Iran have invitations extended to you 
> for permanent residence there. Won't be able to fly any hobby rockets 
> there though.
> 
> Robert
> 
> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> -Benjamin Franklin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kimberly Harms wrote:
> > First off, what does this have to do with Rocketry in the Northwest? 
> >
> > Second, why is the off topic stuff that gets posted always 
> > anti-government right wing-nut stuff ?
> >
> > Third, why not do a bit of reading on the benefits rather than this 
> > "go it alone and screw the rest of the world as long as I can make
maximum profits"
> > stuff ?
> >
> > This from the Oregon Department of Agriculture.:
> >
> > " The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is a voluntary 
> > countrywide program intended to enhance animal traceability efforts 
> > in controlling the spread of animal diseases. The U.S. Department of 
> > Agriculture (USDA) in cooperation with state agencies and the 
> > livestock industry is developing the system. When fully developed, 
> > it should allow traceability of diseased or exposed animals within 
> > 48 hours of the disease outbreak. It should help ensure rapid 
> > disease containment and maximum protection of America's livestock
animals."
> >
> > Kimberly Harms
> > Apparently the last progressive involved in Rocketry and a person 
> > who doesn't assume that the best of all worlds is a world with zero
regulation.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Hammer
> > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:52 AM
> > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
> >
> > Obviously you have not kept up with the news of Fedzilla's National 
> > Animal Identification System (NAIS).
> > http://www.newswithviews.com/Morrison/joyce23.htm
> > http://nonais.org/
> >
> > What is NAIS?
> >
> > The USDA's proposed National Animal Identification System (NAIS) was 
> > originally designed to give the big beef producers help in getting 
> > export markets which required disease controls. The idea is that 
> > every single livestock animal in the United States will be 
> > identified and tagged. All livestock animal movements will be 
> > tracked, logged and reported to the government. The benefit is to 
> > the big factory farms who probably do need this type of regulation. 
> > They get to do single ID's for large groups of animals. Small 
> > farmers, pet owners and homesteaders will have to tag and track every
single animal.
> >
> > There are no exceptions - even small farms that sell direct to local 
> > consumers will be required to pay the fees and file all the paper 
> > work on all their animals. Even horse, llama and other pet owners 
> > will be required to participate in NAIS. Homesteaders who raise 
> > their own meat and grandma with her one egg hen will also have to 
> > register their homes as 'farm premises' and obtain a Premise ID, tag 
> > all their animals and submit all the paperwork and fees. Absurd? Yes 
> > - There are no exceptions under the current NAIS plan. The USDA has 
> > slipped this plan in the back door without any legislation. This is 
> > going to be very expensive and guess who is going to pay for it in
higher food prices. You!
> >
> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
> > 
> >> You forgot the cow burps and goat farts. They trying to tax those 
> >> too but they're not making personal inspections on the farms to 
> >> gather data. They know farmers have pitchforks. ;-)
> >>
> >> It's all a manifestation of the underlying psychosis of a 
> >> totalitarian mindset. Which, unfortunately, seems to be a communicable
disease.
> >> There's a treatment for it, but they preemptively outlawed 
> >> marijuana long ago...whatever, dude.
> >>
> >> Solar heated steam rockets.
> >> +McG+
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2 
> >>> a danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?
> >>>
> >>> Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one 
> >>> or more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or 
> >>> EPA, to regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the 
> >>> EPA declared
> >>> CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate
Chaos.
> >>> http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-20
> >>> 09-3
> >>>
> >>> Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the 
> >>> atmosphere than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F) 
> >>> 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1) also has a much lower thermal conductivity 
> >>> coefficient than CO2 ((20
> >>> C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double 
> >>> and triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity 
> >>> and also used in scuba diving dry suits.
> >>>
> >>> With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to 
> >>> the public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow 
> >>> to drive the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2 
> >>> as a byproduct, through the roof with higher taxes and more
regulation.
> >>>
> >>> Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion? 
> >>> It's only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to 
> >>> our door step to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2 
> >>> standpoint as well as a perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor 
> >>> technology may need to be developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once
again.
> >>>
> >>> Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use 
> >>> does that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to 
> >>> death and regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I 
> >>> could have it use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.
> >>>
> >>> Robert
> >>>
> >>> "Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of
> >>> 
> > despotism"
> > 
> >>> Mary McCarthy
> >>>
> >>> 
> > http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controllin
> > g-carbon
> > -a-bureaucrat's-dream-5109.htm
> > 
> >>>
> >>> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on 
> >>>> perchlorate in general which comes in at least the following five 
> >>>> flavors, Ammonium, Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium. It 
> >>>> occurs naturally as Hydrogen Perchlorate which we call perchloric 
> >>>> acid. So why are we getting bent out of shape about this and the 
> >>>> evil government?
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Rockets mailing list
> >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> 
> >>
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> >
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Sun Apr  5 16:55:32 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 16:55:32 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
	TOTALLY	OFF TOPIC.
In-Reply-To: <B8759E01BF36443D8642F15E4CE819AB@Mobile2>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com><49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net><09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com><49D8D3B6.1000600@earthlink.net>	<006501c9b608$22916f80$67b44e80$@com>	<49D8E32C.1020701@earthlink.net>	<BLU145-W17C1C4B18F2CD204DB93D2DC870@phx.gbl>
	<B8759E01BF36443D8642F15E4CE819AB@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <007901c9b64a$02735dc0$075a1940$@net>

Right, left? Who cares...UP is what we all have in common.

Let keep the rockets we build and fly going UP...the rest doesn't
matter...at least to this list.

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 12:08 PM
To: 'Bill Munds'; 'Robert Nech'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY
OFF TOPIC.

I agree, the post by you and Kimberly were not on topic, let it go please. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:12 AM
To: Robert Nech; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ... TOTALLY
OFF TOPIC.


Let it go, Robert.

 

This is a friendly rocket hobbyist forum of folks that just want to catch
the thrill of watching what they build fly or crash.

Our results are not always what we expect......but are always exciting.

 

Government regulation is important in some ways.  But only in a way that
prevents us from getting the thrill.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:58:20 -0700
> From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.
> 
> Here we go again! Yes!!!!!
> 
> Your Leftist response with your character assassination by calling me 
> an anti-government, right-wing nut isn't going to fly here, but it is 
> a classic tactical move used for generations to shut those people up 
> who disagree with government sprawl into every single facet of our lives.
> 
> Since you enjoy Big Government with big and onerous regulations, are 
> the current regulations on AP rocket propellant enough to make you 
> feel safe? Are you looking forward to the appeal by the BATFE? How 
> much regulation is not enough or too much for you?
> 
> The NAIS as well as Real ID are simply other examples of how 
> government is using its power to give us more supposed safety at the 
> cost of our freedom and liberty and our wallets. Two-thirds of the 
> cost of any product you purchase today is due to government 
> regulation. Our country was founded on keeping government to a 
> minimum. I am not against government at all as long as it stays within 
> the framework of its Constitutional limits. This does require each 
> citizen to behave themselves by being self-governing. As the citizenry 
> becomes less internally, self-governing more government is required to 
> apply external controls upon them.
> 
> Hobby rocketry has survived to this point because rocketeers are 
> self-governing and self-regulating. As long as we prove to Fedzilla 
> and its subsidiaries (the States) that we can do such, like we have 
> done with Judge Walton, we will continue to enjoy the sweet taste of 
> the freedom and liberty to design, build and fly rocket airframes and
motors.
> 
> I heard North Korea, Cuba, and Iran have invitations extended to you 
> for permanent residence there. Won't be able to fly any hobby rockets 
> there though.
> 
> Robert
> 
> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> -Benjamin Franklin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kimberly Harms wrote:
> > First off, what does this have to do with Rocketry in the Northwest? 
> >
> > Second, why is the off topic stuff that gets posted always 
> > anti-government right wing-nut stuff ?
> >
> > Third, why not do a bit of reading on the benefits rather than this 
> > "go it alone and screw the rest of the world as long as I can make
maximum profits"
> > stuff ?
> >
> > This from the Oregon Department of Agriculture.:
> >
> > " The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is a voluntary 
> > countrywide program intended to enhance animal traceability efforts 
> > in controlling the spread of animal diseases. The U.S. Department of 
> > Agriculture (USDA) in cooperation with state agencies and the 
> > livestock industry is developing the system. When fully developed, 
> > it should allow traceability of diseased or exposed animals within 
> > 48 hours of the disease outbreak. It should help ensure rapid 
> > disease containment and maximum protection of America's livestock
animals."
> >
> > Kimberly Harms
> > Apparently the last progressive involved in Rocketry and a person 
> > who doesn't assume that the best of all worlds is a world with zero
regulation.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Hammer
> > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:52 AM
> > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
> >
> > Obviously you have not kept up with the news of Fedzilla's National 
> > Animal Identification System (NAIS).
> > http://www.newswithviews.com/Morrison/joyce23.htm
> > http://nonais.org/
> >
> > What is NAIS?
> >
> > The USDA's proposed National Animal Identification System (NAIS) was 
> > originally designed to give the big beef producers help in getting 
> > export markets which required disease controls. The idea is that 
> > every single livestock animal in the United States will be 
> > identified and tagged. All livestock animal movements will be 
> > tracked, logged and reported to the government. The benefit is to 
> > the big factory farms who probably do need this type of regulation. 
> > They get to do single ID's for large groups of animals. Small 
> > farmers, pet owners and homesteaders will have to tag and track every
single animal.
> >
> > There are no exceptions - even small farms that sell direct to local 
> > consumers will be required to pay the fees and file all the paper 
> > work on all their animals. Even horse, llama and other pet owners 
> > will be required to participate in NAIS. Homesteaders who raise 
> > their own meat and grandma with her one egg hen will also have to 
> > register their homes as 'farm premises' and obtain a Premise ID, tag 
> > all their animals and submit all the paperwork and fees. Absurd? Yes 
> > - There are no exceptions under the current NAIS plan. The USDA has 
> > slipped this plan in the back door without any legislation. This is 
> > going to be very expensive and guess who is going to pay for it in
higher food prices. You!
> >
> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
> > 
> >> You forgot the cow burps and goat farts. They trying to tax those 
> >> too but they're not making personal inspections on the farms to 
> >> gather data. They know farmers have pitchforks. ;-)
> >>
> >> It's all a manifestation of the underlying psychosis of a 
> >> totalitarian mindset. Which, unfortunately, seems to be a communicable
disease.
> >> There's a treatment for it, but they preemptively outlawed 
> >> marijuana long ago...whatever, dude.
> >>
> >> Solar heated steam rockets.
> >> +McG+
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2 
> >>> a danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?
> >>>
> >>> Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one 
> >>> or more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or 
> >>> EPA, to regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the 
> >>> EPA declared
> >>> CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate
Chaos.
> >>> http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-20
> >>> 09-3
> >>>
> >>> Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the 
> >>> atmosphere than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F) 
> >>> 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1) also has a much lower thermal conductivity 
> >>> coefficient than CO2 ((20
> >>> C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double 
> >>> and triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity 
> >>> and also used in scuba diving dry suits.
> >>>
> >>> With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to 
> >>> the public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow 
> >>> to drive the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2 
> >>> as a byproduct, through the roof with higher taxes and more
regulation.
> >>>
> >>> Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion? 
> >>> It's only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to 
> >>> our door step to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2 
> >>> standpoint as well as a perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor 
> >>> technology may need to be developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once
again.
> >>>
> >>> Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use 
> >>> does that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to 
> >>> death and regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I 
> >>> could have it use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.
> >>>
> >>> Robert
> >>>
> >>> "Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of
> >>> 
> > despotism"
> > 
> >>> Mary McCarthy
> >>>
> >>> 
> > http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controllin
> > g-carbon
> > -a-bureaucrat's-dream-5109.htm
> > 
> >>>
> >>> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on 
> >>>> perchlorate in general which comes in at least the following five 
> >>>> flavors, Ammonium, Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium. It 
> >>>> occurs naturally as Hydrogen Perchlorate which we call perchloric 
> >>>> acid. So why are we getting bent out of shape about this and the 
> >>>> evil government?
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Rockets mailing list
> >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Rockets mailing list
> >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> 
> >>
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> >
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From greg at blastzone.com  Sun Apr  5 20:36:54 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:36:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go
	...	TOTALLY	OFF TOPIC.
In-Reply-To: <007901c9b64a$02735dc0$075a1940$@net>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090403120533.03966f00@mail.iinet.com><49D689A5.5030401@earthlink.net><09ef857198d8fc175164a3b92a29437e.squirrel@www.wa-net.com><49D8D3B6.1000600@earthlink.net>	<006501c9b608$22916f80$67b44e80$@com>	<49D8E32C.1020701@earthlink.net>	<BLU145-W17C1C4B18F2CD204DB93D2DC870@phx.gbl>	<B8759E01BF36443D8642F15E4CE819AB@Mobile2>
	<007901c9b64a$02735dc0$075a1940$@net>
Message-ID: <033001c9b668$ee61a340$cb24e9c0$@com>

This is way off topic.  Those I feel who have crossed the line are getting
moderated.  

Greg Deputy
List Admin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of W. Raymond Stoner
> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 4:56 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
TOTALLY
> OFF TOPIC.
> 
> Right, left? Who cares...UP is what we all have in common.
> 
> Let keep the rockets we build and fly going UP...the rest doesn't
> matter...at least to this list.
> 
> Ray
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 12:08 PM
> To: 'Bill Munds'; 'Robert Nech'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
TOTALLY
> OFF TOPIC.
> 
> I agree, the post by you and Kimberly were not on topic, let it go please.
> 
> 
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Bill Munds
> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:12 AM
> To: Robert Nech; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
TOTALLY
> OFF TOPIC.
> 
> 
> Let it go, Robert.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a friendly rocket hobbyist forum of folks that just want to catch
> the thrill of watching what they build fly or crash.
> 
> Our results are not always what we expect......but are always exciting.
> 
> 
> 
> Government regulation is important in some ways.  But only in a way that
> prevents us from getting the thrill.
> 
> 
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:58:20 -0700
> > From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
> TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.
> >
> > Here we go again! Yes!!!!!
> >
> > Your Leftist response with your character assassination by calling me
> > an anti-government, right-wing nut isn't going to fly here, but it is
> > a classic tactical move used for generations to shut those people up
> > who disagree with government sprawl into every single facet of our
lives.
> >
> > Since you enjoy Big Government with big and onerous regulations, are
> > the current regulations on AP rocket propellant enough to make you
> > feel safe? Are you looking forward to the appeal by the BATFE? How
> > much regulation is not enough or too much for you?
> >
> > The NAIS as well as Real ID are simply other examples of how
> > government is using its power to give us more supposed safety at the
> > cost of our freedom and liberty and our wallets. Two-thirds of the
> > cost of any product you purchase today is due to government
> > regulation. Our country was founded on keeping government to a
> > minimum. I am not against government at all as long as it stays within
> > the framework of its Constitutional limits. This does require each
> > citizen to behave themselves by being self-governing. As the citizenry
> > becomes less internally, self-governing more government is required to
> > apply external controls upon them.
> >
> > Hobby rocketry has survived to this point because rocketeers are
> > self-governing and self-regulating. As long as we prove to Fedzilla
> > and its subsidiaries (the States) that we can do such, like we have
> > done with Judge Walton, we will continue to enjoy the sweet taste of
> > the freedom and liberty to design, build and fly rocket airframes and
> motors.
> >
> > I heard North Korea, Cuba, and Iran have invitations extended to you
> > for permanent residence there. Won't be able to fly any hobby rockets
> > there though.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> > -Benjamin Franklin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Kimberly Harms wrote:
> > > First off, what does this have to do with Rocketry in the Northwest?
> > >
> > > Second, why is the off topic stuff that gets posted always
> > > anti-government right wing-nut stuff ?
> > >
> > > Third, why not do a bit of reading on the benefits rather than this
> > > "go it alone and screw the rest of the world as long as I can make
> maximum profits"
> > > stuff ?
> > >
> > > This from the Oregon Department of Agriculture.:
> > >
> > > " The National Animal Identification System (NAIS) is a voluntary
> > > countrywide program intended to enhance animal traceability efforts
> > > in controlling the spread of animal diseases. The U.S. Department of
> > > Agriculture (USDA) in cooperation with state agencies and the
> > > livestock industry is developing the system. When fully developed,
> > > it should allow traceability of diseased or exposed animals within
> > > 48 hours of the disease outbreak. It should help ensure rapid
> > > disease containment and maximum protection of America's livestock
> animals."
> > >
> > > Kimberly Harms
> > > Apparently the last progressive involved in Rocketry and a person
> > > who doesn't assume that the best of all worlds is a world with zero
> regulation.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Hammer
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:52 AM
> > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] where the deceitful government will go ...
> > >
> > > Obviously you have not kept up with the news of Fedzilla's National
> > > Animal Identification System (NAIS).
> > > http://www.newswithviews.com/Morrison/joyce23.htm
> > > http://nonais.org/
> > >
> > > What is NAIS?
> > >
> > > The USDA's proposed National Animal Identification System (NAIS) was
> > > originally designed to give the big beef producers help in getting
> > > export markets which required disease controls. The idea is that
> > > every single livestock animal in the United States will be
> > > identified and tagged. All livestock animal movements will be
> > > tracked, logged and reported to the government. The benefit is to
> > > the big factory farms who probably do need this type of regulation.
> > > They get to do single ID's for large groups of animals. Small
> > > farmers, pet owners and homesteaders will have to tag and track every
> single animal.
> > >
> > > There are no exceptions - even small farms that sell direct to local
> > > consumers will be required to pay the fees and file all the paper
> > > work on all their animals. Even horse, llama and other pet owners
> > > will be required to participate in NAIS. Homesteaders who raise
> > > their own meat and grandma with her one egg hen will also have to
> > > register their homes as 'farm premises' and obtain a Premise ID, tag
> > > all their animals and submit all the paperwork and fees. Absurd? Yes
> > > - There are no exceptions under the current NAIS plan. The USDA has
> > > slipped this plan in the back door without any legislation. This is
> > > going to be very expensive and guess who is going to pay for it in
> higher food prices. You!
> > >
> > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> You forgot the cow burps and goat farts. They trying to tax those
> > >> too but they're not making personal inspections on the farms to
> > >> gather data. They know farmers have pitchforks. ;-)
> > >>
> > >> It's all a manifestation of the underlying psychosis of a
> > >> totalitarian mindset. Which, unfortunately, seems to be a
communicable
> disease.
> > >> There's a treatment for it, but they preemptively outlawed
> > >> marijuana long ago...whatever, dude.
> > >>
> > >> Solar heated steam rockets.
> > >> +McG+
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Why would the EPA declare a naturally occurring compound like CO2
> > >>> a danger to the public like they are doing with perchlorates?
> > >>>
> > >>> Because the Feds will use these studies to justify its use of one
> > >>> or more of their alphabet soup agencies, such as the CDC, FDA or
> > >>> EPA, to regulate and tax its use by the public. Just recently the
> > >>> EPA declared
> > >>> CO2 a danger to the public to help stop AGW/Climate Change/Climate
> Chaos.
> > >>> http://www.businessinsider.com/epa-delcares-co2-a-public-danger-20
> > >>> 09-3
> > >>>
> > >>> Does it matter that there is more argon in the (0.94%) in the
> > >>> atmosphere than CO2 (0.04%). Or that argon ((26.85 C/80.33 F)
> > >>> 0.01772 W.m-1.K-1) also has a much lower thermal conductivity
> > >>> coefficient than CO2 ((20
> > >>> C/68 F) 0.087 W.m-1 .K-1). So much so that argon is used in double
> > >>> and triple pan windows to help increase the insulating capacity
> > >>> and also used in scuba diving dry suits.
> > >>>
> > >>> With CO2 now defined and classified as a pollutant and a danger to
> > >>> the public's health and welfare, legislation will certainly follow
> > >>> to drive the price any form of energy creation, which creates CO2
> > >>> as a byproduct, through the roof with higher taxes and more
> regulation.
> > >>>
> > >>> Don't rocket motors produce CO2 as one byproduct of combustion?
> > >>> It's only a matter of time before the Mandarins come calling to
> > >>> our door step to regulate the use of rocket motors from a CO2
> > >>> standpoint as well as a perchlorate one. GOX/GHy rocket motor
> > >>> technology may need to be developed to sidestep the bureaucrats once
> again.
> > >>>
> > >>> Since I am a CO2 emitter by what I exhale and the products I use
> > >>> does that make me a danger to the public and should I be taxed to
> > >>> death and regulated out of existence? If I alter my genetic code I
> > >>> could have it use hydrogen and oxygen to power my body, too.
> > >>>
> > >>> Robert
> > >>>
> > >>> "Bureaucracy, the rule of no one, has become the modern form of
> > >>>
> > > despotism"
> > >
> > >>> Mary McCarthy
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > > http://www.carbonoffsetsdaily.com/canada-carbonmarketnews/controllin
> > > g-carbon
> > > -a-bureaucrat's-dream-5109.htm
> > >
> > >>>
> > >>> Paul Bogdanich wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> As I understand it the health warning or whatever it was is on
> > >>>> perchlorate in general which comes in at least the following five
> > >>>> flavors, Ammonium, Hydrogen, Lithium, Potassium and Sodium. It
> > >>>> occurs naturally as Hydrogen Perchlorate which we call perchloric
> > >>>> acid. So why are we getting bent out of shape about this and the
> > >>>> evil government?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> Rockets mailing list
> > >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Rockets mailing list
> > >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Rockets mailing list
> > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Apr  6 05:52:12 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 05:52:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct
Message-ID: <041f01c9b6b6$81a8db80$84fa9280$@com>

I've always taken a very light hand to moderating this list.  Due to the
actions of a few individuals, I'm being forced to take a more active
approach.  

Let me re-iterate the rules of this list, which are somewhat informal.  The
list is here for the expressed purpose of discussing rocketry.  Personal
attacks on others will result in being banned from the list.  I am the sole
judge of what constitutes a personal attack on this list.  

Up to this point, off-topic rants have been tolerated.  We've had posts on
government, gun control, and quite a laundry list of other non-rocketry
related topics.  From here on out, OT rants will earn the participants
moderation mode.  A warning may or may not be given.  Determination of what
constitutes an OT Rant is left to my judgment.  Moderation mode means you
can still post to the list, but all posts are held until reviewed and
released to the list by the admin (me).  How long someone remains on
moderation mode will be determined on a case by case basis.  Multiple
offenses may result in being banned.

This is obnoxious, but I'm pretty much stuck here.  When it comes down to
moderating/banning a few folks who want to use the list as a sounding board
for non-rocketry topics or seeing other members drop off the list to avoid
the noise I choose the former.

Regrettably,

Greg Deputy
List Admin


From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Mon Apr  6 07:40:42 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:40:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct
In-Reply-To: <041f01c9b6b6$81a8db80$84fa9280$@com>
References: <041f01c9b6b6$81a8db80$84fa9280$@com>
Message-ID: <49DA146A.7020506@hawkfeather.com>

Thank you for the forum, and your work Greg. It is indeed greatly 
appreciated.

Andrew.

Greg Deputy wrote:
> I've always taken a very light hand to moderating this list.  Due to the
> actions of a few individuals, I'm being forced to take a more active
> approach.  
> 
> Let me re-iterate the rules of this list, which are somewhat informal.  The
> list is here for the expressed purpose of discussing rocketry.  Personal
> attacks on others will result in being banned from the list.  I am the sole
> judge of what constitutes a personal attack on this list.  
> 
> Up to this point, off-topic rants have been tolerated.  We've had posts on
> government, gun control, and quite a laundry list of other non-rocketry
> related topics.  From here on out, OT rants will earn the participants
> moderation mode.  A warning may or may not be given.  Determination of what
> constitutes an OT Rant is left to my judgment.  Moderation mode means you
> can still post to the list, but all posts are held until reviewed and
> released to the list by the admin (me).  How long someone remains on
> moderation mode will be determined on a case by case basis.  Multiple
> offenses may result in being banned.
> 
> This is obnoxious, but I'm pretty much stuck here.  When it comes down to
> moderating/banning a few folks who want to use the list as a sounding board
> for non-rocketry topics or seeing other members drop off the list to avoid
> the noise I choose the former.
> 
> Regrettably,
> 
> Greg Deputy
> List Admin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   
> 

From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com  Mon Apr  6 07:47:22 2009
From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:47:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct
In-Reply-To: <49DA146A.7020506@hawkfeather.com>
References: <041f01c9b6b6$81a8db80$84fa9280$@com>
	<49DA146A.7020506@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121B94@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>

me ditto too. Thanks for the work you do and the service you provide.
See ya in Mansfield.
steve 

From kent.newman at comcast.net  Mon Apr  6 07:54:36 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:54:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct
In-Reply-To: <041f01c9b6b6$81a8db80$84fa9280$@com>
References: <041f01c9b6b6$81a8db80$84fa9280$@com>
Message-ID: <000d01c9b6c7$9b814fe0$d283efa0$@newman@comcast.net>

Can't argue with that.

Thanks, Greg.

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 5:52 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct

I've always taken a very light hand to moderating this list.  Due to the
actions of a few individuals, I'm being forced to take a more active
approach.  

Let me re-iterate the rules of this list, which are somewhat informal.  The
list is here for the expressed purpose of discussing rocketry.  Personal
attacks on others will result in being banned from the list.  I am the sole
judge of what constitutes a personal attack on this list.  

Up to this point, off-topic rants have been tolerated.  We've had posts on
government, gun control, and quite a laundry list of other non-rocketry
related topics.  From here on out, OT rants will earn the participants
moderation mode.  A warning may or may not be given.  Determination of what
constitutes an OT Rant is left to my judgment.  Moderation mode means you
can still post to the list, but all posts are held until reviewed and
released to the list by the admin (me).  How long someone remains on
moderation mode will be determined on a case by case basis.  Multiple
offenses may result in being banned.

This is obnoxious, but I'm pretty much stuck here.  When it comes down to
moderating/banning a few folks who want to use the list as a sounding board
for non-rocketry topics or seeing other members drop off the list to avoid
the noise I choose the former.

Regrettably,

Greg Deputy
List Admin

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Mon Apr  6 08:13:17 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 08:13:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct
In-Reply-To: <000d01c9b6c7$9b814fe0$d283efa0$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <041f01c9b6b6$81a8db80$84fa9280$@com>
	<000d01c9b6c7$9b814fe0$d283efa0$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <21A2DFE0992642E98AC42A95E20F9486@Mobile2>

Thanks here too! 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:55 AM
To: 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct

Can't argue with that.

Thanks, Greg.

Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 5:52 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct

I've always taken a very light hand to moderating this list.  Due to the
actions of a few individuals, I'm being forced to take a more active
approach.  

Let me re-iterate the rules of this list, which are somewhat informal.  The
list is here for the expressed purpose of discussing rocketry.  Personal
attacks on others will result in being banned from the list.  I am the sole
judge of what constitutes a personal attack on this list.  

Up to this point, off-topic rants have been tolerated.  We've had posts on
government, gun control, and quite a laundry list of other non-rocketry
related topics.  From here on out, OT rants will earn the participants
moderation mode.  A warning may or may not be given.  Determination of what
constitutes an OT Rant is left to my judgment.  Moderation mode means you
can still post to the list, but all posts are held until reviewed and
released to the list by the admin (me).  How long someone remains on
moderation mode will be determined on a case by case basis.  Multiple
offenses may result in being banned.

This is obnoxious, but I'm pretty much stuck here.  When it comes down to
moderating/banning a few folks who want to use the list as a sounding board
for non-rocketry topics or seeing other members drop off the list to avoid
the noise I choose the former.

Regrettably,

Greg Deputy
List Admin

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Mon Apr  6 10:50:00 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (jjarmitage at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:50:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct
Message-ID: <20090406175257.PBQA6203.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@COM>

greg, thank you
we have to sift enough as it is in email world.
As the TRA list goes, I look over the firsrt few posts replying to rocketry question then ignore the rest as the soap-boxing and irrelevancy kicks in

thanks for making the inbox a little lighter


jjarmitage at earthlink.net
253 205 7722
Sent from my Palm Tr?o

-----Original Message-----

From:  "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
Subj:  [RocketsNW] RocketsNW list guidelines of conduct
Date:  Mon Apr 6, 2009 5:52 am
Size:  1K
To:  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>

I've always taken a very light hand to moderating this list.  Due to the
actions of a few individuals, I'm being forced to take a more active
approach.  

Let me re-iterate the rules of this list, which are somewhat informal.  The
list is here for the expressed purpose of discussing rocketry.  Personal
attacks on others will result in being banned from the list.  I am the sole
judge of what constitutes a personal attack on this list.  

Up to this point, off-topic rants have been tolerated.  We've had posts on
government, gun control, and quite a laundry list of other non-rocketry
related topics.  From here on out, OT rants will earn the participants
moderation mode.  A warning may or may not be given.  Determination of what
constitutes an OT Rant is left to my judgment.  Moderation mode means you
can still post to the list, but all posts are held until reviewed and
released to the list by the admin (me).  How long someone remains on
moderation mode will be determined on a case by case basis.  Multiple
offenses may result in being banned.

This is obnoxious, but I'm pretty much stuck here.  When it comes down to
moderating/banning a few folks who want to use the list as a sounding board
for non-rocketry topics or seeing other members drop off the list to avoid
the noise I choose the former.

Regrettably,

Greg Deputy
List Admin

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



From bphlat234 at comcast.net  Mon Apr  6 20:02:24 2009
From: bphlat234 at comcast.net (Gary Harris)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 20:02:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [OROC Members] May'09;
	OROC Showcase Event: Parachutes / Recovery
In-Reply-To: <007401c9b580$e8098870$0601a8c0@LaptopKrausert>
References: <007401c9b580$e8098870$0601a8c0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <3DB6F9DB15704AE5ACBA085D88167AC8@Garylaptop>

good one robert,

I'll try to be there to learn something.

Q:  has anyone in the club had any real life experience with this, i.e. how do they pack military chutes or man-rated chutes, and how much of that applies to what we do ?

Gary Harris
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: rockets at rocketsnw.com ; Members OregonRocketry 
  Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:55 PM
  Subject: [OROC Members] May'09; OROC Showcase Event: Parachutes / Recovery


  OROC Showcase Event: Parachutes / Recovery

  The OregonRocketry public launch in May will feature the Parachute / Recovery Showcase event on Saturday May 16th at 7:00pm. This showcase, we invite everyone to join us and share your particular chute packing technique. Do you roll it up? Do you do a special tri-fold with cord inside? Do you simply stuff the chute into the rocket? Do you use kevlar sheets and make a chute borritto?

  Stop by the LCO area at 7:00pm, bring a parachute, and demonstrate your techniques for folding, packing and protecting your parachute. Do you create your own parachutes? The more the better. This should be a fun and informative event. Show your technique. See other members techniques. 

  So if you're planning to attend the May Spring Thunder launch hosted by OregonRocketry in Brothers on May 15th - 17th, take a moment and stop by the LCO area at 7:00pm on Saturday May 16th and participate in the Parachute / Recovery Showcase Event. Not wanting to demonstrate? That's fine. Stop by and observe the techniques of others. 

  Share, observe, get ideas, learn. Meet some new friends. Everyone is welcome at the Showcase.

  Cheers,
  Robert



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Members mailing list
  Members at oregonrocketry.org
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members
-------------- next part --------------
good one robert,
?
I'll try to be there to learn something.
?
Q:? has anyone in the club had any real life experience with this, i.e. how do they pack military chutes or man-rated chutes, and how much of that applies to what we do ?
?
Gary Harris
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com Robert Krausert
To:
mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
; mailto:members at oregonrocketry.com Members OregonRocketry
Sent:
Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:55 PM
Subject:
[OROC Members] May'09; OROC Showcase Event: Parachutes / Recovery
OROC Showcase Event: Parachutes / Recovery
The OregonRocketry public launch in May will feature the Parachute / Recovery Showcase event on Saturday May 16th at 7:00pm. This showcase, we invite everyone to join us and share your particular chute packing technique. Do you roll it up? Do you do a special tri-fold with cord inside? Do you simply stuff the chute into the rocket? Do you use kevlar sheets and make a chute borritto?
Stop by the LCO area at 7:00pm, bring a parachute, and demonstrate your techniques for folding, packing and protecting your parachute. Do you create your own parachutes? The more the better. This should be a fun and informative event. Show your technique. See other members techniques.
So if you're planning to attend the May Spring Thunder launch hosted by OregonRocketry in Brothers on May 15th - 17th, take a moment and stop by the LCO area at 7:00pm on Saturday May 16th and participate in the Parachute / Recovery Showcase Event. Not wanting to demonstrate? That's fine. Stop by and observe the techniques of others.
Share, observe, get ideas, learn. Meet some new friends. Everyone is welcome at the Showcase.
Cheers,
Robert
_______________________________________________
Members mailing list
Members at oregonrocketry.org
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/members

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Mon Apr  6 21:50:15 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:50:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] TARC report from Sixty Acres, V 2.0
References: <041f01c9b6b6$81a8db80$84fa9280$@com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A62@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

The sun was beginning to go down.  They were down to their last motor load on the last possible day of qualifying.  They'd already logged five flights that were not even in the same zip code as a chance to qualify for Nationals.  They were looking dejected.  They seemed to have resigned themselves to the fact that all their friends were going to make the Finals and they weren't.
 
Then they pushed the button and everything was once again right with their world.
 
42.98 seconds later their vehicle was on the ground with an intact egg and their altimeter was beeping out 749 feet.  Bravo Company, the team that always seems to have nothing but bad luck, had themselves an almost certainly bulletproof qualifying score.  
 
The cheers of jubilation must have been heard for miles.
 
Now...if they can just learn to do that on a consistent basis instead of jumping all over the map they'll be set.  
 
Any other TARC qualifying news to report out there?  Surely there must be some advisors or observers from Oregon, or the East Side of the Mountains...
 
Peter Schurke
Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
Seattle, WA
 
 

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Tue Apr  7 06:26:33 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 06:26:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl.
	Magazine Today
Message-ID: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>

A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.

 

From: David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
To: absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov;
bar0051 at homenetnw.net; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;
hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com;
lmceuen at comcast.net; rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net;
rob at otisace.com; ramberg at icehouse.net; Jinxblink at hotmail.com;
raystoner99 at comcast.net; Mark.Howe at compucom.com
Subject: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today 

 

Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor & Industries
(L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive Magazine.  Even
though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb 15, 2009, he gave me
permission to continue storing rocketry stuff in the magazine.  I had been
storing it in my portable magazine in my garage.  My federal LEUP doesn't
expire until June 1, 2009.  He was very aware of the recent court decision
whereby the NAR prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:

 

1)  The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal judge's
decision.  He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their LEUPs just yet.  

 

2)  The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low Explosive",
even though the federal government may give up its fight.  Mr. Aguiar had
asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he got an answer that the State
of Washington was inclined to keep regulating APCP (and, hence, keep
requiring a WA Explosive Magazine license).  He recommended that the WA
rocketry clubs band together to get the ear of a state legislator, to
convince the WA L&I folks not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider
it a "Low Explosive" anymore.

 

3)  The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in the
magazine.

 

4)  I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which costs ~$25
at the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to renew my state
Explosive Magazine license.  I'm not in trouble, but I must attend to this
soon.  

 

    --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2

-------------- next part --------------
A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
?
From:
David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
Sent:
Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
To:
absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov; bar0051 at homenetnw.net; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net; hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com; lmceuen at comcast.net; rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com; ramberg at icehouse.net; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net; Mark.Howe at compucom.com
Subject:
Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
?
Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor & Industries (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive Magazine.? Even though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb 15, 2009, he gave me permission to continue storing?rocketry stuff in the magazine.? I had been storing it in my portable magazine in my garage.? My federal LEUP doesn't expire until June 1, 2009.? He was very aware of the recent court decision whereby the NAR prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
?
1)? The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal judge's decision.? He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their LEUPs just yet.?
?
2)? The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low Explosive", even though the federal government may give up its fight.? Mr. Aguiar had asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he got an answer that the State of Washington was inclined to keep regulating APCP (and, hence, keep requiring a WA Explosive Magazine license).? He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs band together to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I folks not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low Explosive" anymore.
?
3)? The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in the magazine.
?
4)? I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which costs ~$25 at the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to renew my state Explosive Magazine license.? I'm not in trouble, but I must attend to this soon.?
?
????--- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2

From greg at blastzone.com  Tue Apr  7 06:34:37 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 06:34:37 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My
	Expl.	Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
Message-ID: <073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com>

Well that's a bummer, if the state indeed wants to keep regulating it.
Doesn't make any sense, though, seeing that they're so understaffed that
they cant even send out renewal forms or answer the phone.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Marty2
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 6:27 AM
> To: 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl.
> Magazine Today
> 
> A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
> 
> 
> 
> From: David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov;
> bar0051 at homenetnw.net; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;
> hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com;
lmceuen at comcast.net;
> rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com;
> ramberg at icehouse.net; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net;
> Mark.Howe at compucom.com
> Subject: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor & Industries
> (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive Magazine.  Even
> though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb 15, 2009, he gave me
> permission to continue storing rocketry stuff in the magazine.  I had been
> storing it in my portable magazine in my garage.  My federal LEUP doesn't
> expire until June 1, 2009.  He was very aware of the recent court decision
> whereby the NAR prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
> 
> 
> 
> 1)  The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal judge's
> decision.  He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their LEUPs just yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 2)  The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low
Explosive",
> even though the federal government may give up its fight.  Mr. Aguiar had
> asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he got an answer that the State
of
> Washington was inclined to keep regulating APCP (and, hence, keep
requiring a
> WA Explosive Magazine license).  He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs
> band together to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I
> folks not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low
Explosive"
> anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 3)  The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in the
> magazine.
> 
> 
> 
> 4)  I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which costs ~$25
at
> the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to renew my state
Explosive
> Magazine license.  I'm not in trouble, but I must attend to this soon.
> 
> 
> 
>     --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2



From dmrandall at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 06:46:32 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 06:46:32 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My
	Expl. Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com>

But at least Mr Aguiar thought it was worthwhile for the clubs to
pursue getting it removed from the L&I regulations.  Given current
budget issues in the state, it might be opportune time to enlighten
our state government in another way to reduce unnecessary
expenditures.

Dave

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 6:34 AM, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
> Well that's a bummer, if the state indeed wants to keep regulating it.
> Doesn't make any sense, though, seeing that they're so understaffed that
> they cant even send out renewal forms or answer the phone.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marty2
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 6:27 AM
>> To: 'Rockets NW list'
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl.
>> Magazine Today
>>
>> A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
>> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
>> To: absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov;
>> bar0051 at homenetnw.net; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;
>> hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com;
> lmceuen at comcast.net;
>> rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com;
>> ramberg at icehouse.net; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net;
>> Mark.Howe at compucom.com
>> Subject: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor & Industries
>> (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive Magazine. ?Even
>> though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb 15, 2009, he gave me
>> permission to continue storing rocketry stuff in the magazine. ?I had been
>> storing it in my portable magazine in my garage. ?My federal LEUP doesn't
>> expire until June 1, 2009. ?He was very aware of the recent court decision
>> whereby the NAR prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) ?The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal judge's
>> decision. ?He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their LEUPs just yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) ?The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low
> Explosive",
>> even though the federal government may give up its fight. ?Mr. Aguiar had
>> asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he got an answer that the State
> of
>> Washington was inclined to keep regulating APCP (and, hence, keep
> requiring a
>> WA Explosive Magazine license). ?He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs
>> band together to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I
>> folks not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low
> Explosive"
>> anymore.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3) ?The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in the
>> magazine.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4) ?I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which costs ~$25
> at
>> the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to renew my state
> Explosive
>> Magazine license. ?I'm not in trouble, but I must attend to this soon.
>>
>>
>>
>> ? ? --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From terry at mooreread.com  Tue Apr  7 08:58:20 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:58:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My
	Expl. Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
Message-ID: <5A295FCF-19D6-4B9A-BA56-791F9BEB14F6@mooreread.com>

The only thing I can find in the WAC ... is a note saying that APCP  
rocket motors may be stored in an attached garage.   It seems that the  
current authority to regulate it comes from the ATF explosives list  
and not from any explicit state regulation.    I'm not saying they  
couldn't change that.  There would need to be a statutory basis for  
any new regulation.



On Apr 7, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Marty2 wrote:

> A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
>
> From:
> David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
> Sent:
> Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
> To:
> absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov; bar0051 at homenetnw.net 
> ; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;  
> hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com; lmceuen at comcast.net 
> ; rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com; ramberg at icehouse.net 
> ; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net; Mark.Howe at compucom.com
> Subject:
> Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
>
> Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor &  
> Industries (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive  
> Magazine.  Even though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb  
> 15, 2009, he gave me permission to continue storing rocketry stuff  
> in the magazine.  I had been storing it in my portable magazine in  
> my garage.  My federal LEUP doesn't expire until June 1, 2009.  He  
> was very aware of the recent court decision whereby the NAR  
> prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
>
> 1)  The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal  
> judge's decision.  He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their  
> LEUPs just yet.
>
> 2)  The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low  
> Explosive", even though the federal government may give up its  
> fight.  Mr. Aguiar had asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he  
> got an answer that the State of Washington was inclined to keep  
> regulating APCP (and, hence, keep requiring a WA Explosive Magazine  
> license).  He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs band together  
> to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I folks  
> not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low  
> Explosive" anymore.
>
> 3)  The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in  
> the magazine.
>
> 4)  I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which  
> costs ~$25 at the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to  
> renew my state Explosive Magazine license.  I'm not in trouble, but  
> I must attend to this soon.
>
>    --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


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From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Tue Apr  7 09:13:21 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:13:21 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At
	MyExpl. Magazine Today
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com>
	<6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

My $0.02
 
My admitedly not law school quality law class that I was required to take when I was getting my Principal's certificate leads me to believe that if a Federal Judge has ruled that APCP is not an explosive, then it would be somewhat less than legal for the state to regulate it as such.
 
Sounds to me like we should definitely take Mr. Aguiar's suggestion and lobby the state about dropping their regulation of APCP, but we're now dealing from a position of strength, as we have a Federal Court Decision that backs us up.
 
Peter Schurke
Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
Seattle, WA

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Dave Randall
Sent: Tue 4/7/2009 6:46 AM
To: Greg Deputy
Cc: Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At MyExpl. Magazine Today



But at least Mr Aguiar thought it was worthwhile for the clubs to
pursue getting it removed from the L&I regulations.  Given current
budget issues in the state, it might be opportune time to enlighten
our state government in another way to reduce unnecessary
expenditures.

Dave

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 6:34 AM, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
> Well that's a bummer, if the state indeed wants to keep regulating it.
> Doesn't make any sense, though, seeing that they're so understaffed that
> they cant even send out renewal forms or answer the phone.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marty2
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 6:27 AM
>> To: 'Rockets NW list'
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl.
>> Magazine Today
>>
>> A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
>> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
>> To: absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov;
>> bar0051 at homenetnw.net; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;
>> hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com;
> lmceuen at comcast.net;
>> rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com;
>> ramberg at icehouse.net; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net;
>> Mark.Howe at compucom.com
>> Subject: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor & Industries
>> (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive Magazine.  Even
>> though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb 15, 2009, he gave me
>> permission to continue storing rocketry stuff in the magazine.  I had been
>> storing it in my portable magazine in my garage.  My federal LEUP doesn't
>> expire until June 1, 2009.  He was very aware of the recent court decision
>> whereby the NAR prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1)  The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal judge's
>> decision.  He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their LEUPs just yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2)  The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low
> Explosive",
>> even though the federal government may give up its fight.  Mr. Aguiar had
>> asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he got an answer that the State
> of
>> Washington was inclined to keep regulating APCP (and, hence, keep
> requiring a
>> WA Explosive Magazine license).  He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs
>> band together to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I
>> folks not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low
> Explosive"
>> anymore.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3)  The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in the
>> magazine.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4)  I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which costs ~$25
> at
>> the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to renew my state
> Explosive
>> Magazine license.  I'm not in trouble, but I must attend to this soon.
>>
>>
>>
>>     --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



--
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From jhadv at pacifier.com  Tue Apr  7 09:20:48 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:20:48 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>

	I think everyone who flies model rockets owes me a debt of gratitude.  For 
you see I have become convinced that it was I who made the ultimate 
sacrifice and put into heavenly motion the chain of events that deregulated 
APCP.  You see I applied for, and received, my LEUP.  Therefore, now that I 
have a LEUP, the forces that control the universe thought it right and just 
that it should become as a useless appendage.  Completely irrelevant.  Like 
me.
	This is kind of like the way I buy and sell stocks.  I buy a stock, it 
goes down.  I sell a stock, it goes up.  I try something smart like selling 
covered calls and the stock absolutely soars.  I bring a shovel to a launch 
my rockets don't burn in.  I forget the shovel and the unspeakable 
happens.  Yes friends, neighbors, fellow rocketeers  it was me.  No need to 
thank me today, just buy me a beer the next time you see me.  I am sure to 
need it.  


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Tue Apr  7 09:21:03 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:21:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked AtMyExpl.
	Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>

Excellent point. If WA tried to regulate it as explosive we already won that
battle. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:13 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked AtMyExpl.
Magazine Today

My $0.02
 
My admitedly not law school quality law class that I was required to take
when I was getting my Principal's certificate leads me to believe that if a
Federal Judge has ruled that APCP is not an explosive, then it would be
somewhat less than legal for the state to regulate it as such.
 
Sounds to me like we should definitely take Mr. Aguiar's suggestion and
lobby the state about dropping their regulation of APCP, but we're now
dealing from a position of strength, as we have a Federal Court Decision
that backs us up.
 
Peter Schurke
Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
Seattle, WA

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Dave Randall
Sent: Tue 4/7/2009 6:46 AM
To: Greg Deputy
Cc: Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At
MyExpl. Magazine Today



But at least Mr Aguiar thought it was worthwhile for the clubs to pursue
getting it removed from the L&I regulations.  Given current budget issues in
the state, it might be opportune time to enlighten our state government in
another way to reduce unnecessary expenditures.

Dave

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 6:34 AM, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
> Well that's a bummer, if the state indeed wants to keep regulating it.
> Doesn't make any sense, though, seeing that they're so understaffed 
> that they cant even send out renewal forms or answer the phone.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marty2
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 6:27 AM
>> To: 'Rockets NW list'
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My
Expl.
>> Magazine Today
>>
>> A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
>> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
>> To: absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov; 
>> bar0051 at homenetnw.net; jcooney805 at comcast.net; 
>> the.vogels at verizon.net; hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; 
>> jim at otisace.com;
> lmceuen at comcast.net;
>> rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com; 
>> ramberg at icehouse.net; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net; 
>> Mark.Howe at compucom.com
>> Subject: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine 
>> Today
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor & 
>> Industries
>> (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive Magazine.  
>> Even though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb 15, 2009, 
>> he gave me permission to continue storing rocketry stuff in the 
>> magazine.  I had been storing it in my portable magazine in my 
>> garage.  My federal LEUP doesn't expire until June 1, 2009.  He was 
>> very aware of the recent court decision whereby the NAR prevailed over
the BATFE, but he made these points:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1)  The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal 
>> judge's decision.  He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their LEUPs
just yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2)  The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low
> Explosive",
>> even though the federal government may give up its fight.  Mr. Aguiar 
>> had asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he got an answer that 
>> the State
> of
>> Washington was inclined to keep regulating APCP (and, hence, keep
> requiring a
>> WA Explosive Magazine license).  He recommended that the WA rocketry 
>> clubs band together to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince 
>> the WA L&I folks not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider 
>> it a "Low
> Explosive"
>> anymore.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3)  The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in 
>> the magazine.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4)  I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which costs 
>> ~$25
> at
>> the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to renew my state
> Explosive
>> Magazine license.  I'm not in trouble, but I must attend to this soon.
>>
>>
>>
>>     --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



--
- Dave
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From bjarchow at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 09:46:38 2009
From: bjarchow at gmail.com (Brian Jarchow)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:46:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked AtMyExpl.
	Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com>
	<6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>

We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to fight
again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without legislative
authority.

I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the list
know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good friend who
knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two members of the state
house or state senate willing to support us, I really doubt L&I would try to
continue regulating APCP.

Brian

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Scott T Bowers <scott at scottsrockets.com>wrote:

> Excellent point. If WA tried to regulate it as explosive we already won
> that
> battle.
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:13 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked
> AtMyExpl.
> Magazine Today
>
> My $0.02
>
> My admitedly not law school quality law class that I was required to take
> when I was getting my Principal's certificate leads me to believe that if a
> Federal Judge has ruled that APCP is not an explosive, then it would be
> somewhat less than legal for the state to regulate it as such.
>
> Sounds to me like we should definitely take Mr. Aguiar's suggestion and
> lobby the state about dropping their regulation of APCP, but we're now
> dealing from a position of strength, as we have a Federal Court Decision
> that backs us up.
>
> Peter Schurke
> Teacher and Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> Seattle, WA
>
-------------- next part --------------
I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
Brian
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Scott T Bowers
< mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com scott at scottsrockets.com
>
wrote:
Excellent point. If WA tried to regulate it as explosive we already won that
battle.
Scott T. Bowers
http://www.scottsrockets.com www.scottsrockets.com
-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:13 AM
To: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked AtMyExpl.
Magazine Today
My $0.02
My admitedly not law school quality law class that I was required to take
when I was getting my Principal's certificate leads me to believe that if a
Federal Judge has ruled that APCP is not an explosive, then it would be
somewhat less than legal for the state to regulate it as such.
Sounds to me like we should definitely take Mr. Aguiar's suggestion and
lobby the state about dropping their regulation of APCP, but we're now
dealing from a position of strength, as we have a Federal Court Decision
that backs us up.
Peter Schurke
Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
Seattle, WA

From bjarchow at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 09:52:19 2009
From: bjarchow at gmail.com (Brian Jarchow)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:52:19 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>
References: <mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <a5b4f5770904070952i5b5f3b4fobbfb246c78fb6aee@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Paul.
While you are at it, please let me know which launches you are planning to
attend - I only want to attend launches with good weather!

You aren't planning to attend FITS, are you?

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Paul Bogdanich <jhadv at pacifier.com> wrote:

>        I think everyone who flies model rockets owes me a debt of
> gratitude.  For
> you see I have become convinced that it was I who made the ultimate
> sacrifice and put into heavenly motion the chain of events that deregulated
> APCP.  You see I applied for, and received, my LEUP.  Therefore, now that I
> have a LEUP, the forces that control the universe thought it right and just
> that it should become as a useless appendage.  Completely irrelevant.  Like
> me.
>        This is kind of like the way I buy and sell stocks.  I buy a stock,
> it
> goes down.  I sell a stock, it goes up.  I try something smart like selling
> covered calls and the stock absolutely soars.  I bring a shovel to a launch
> my rockets don't burn in.  I forget the shovel and the unspeakable
> happens.  Yes friends, neighbors, fellow rocketeers  it was me.  No need to
> thank me today, just buy me a beer the next time you see me.  I am sure to
> need it.
>
-------------- next part --------------
While you are at it, please let me know which launches you are planning to attend - I only want to attend launches with good weather!
You aren't planning to attend FITS, are you?
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Paul Bogdanich
< mailto:jhadv at pacifier.com jhadv at pacifier.com
>
wrote:
? ? ? ?I think everyone who flies model rockets owes me a debt of gratitude. ?For
you see I have become convinced that it was I who made the ultimate
sacrifice and put into heavenly motion the chain of events that deregulated
APCP. ?You see I applied for, and received, my LEUP. ?Therefore, now that I
have a LEUP, the forces that control the universe thought it right and just
that it should become as a useless appendage. ?Completely irrelevant. ?Like
me.
? ? ? ?This is kind of like the way I buy and sell stocks. ?I buy a stock, it
goes down. ?I sell a stock, it goes up. ?I try something smart like selling
covered calls and the stock absolutely soars. ?I bring a shovel to a launch
my rockets don't burn in. ?I forget the shovel and the unspeakable
happens. ?Yes friends, neighbors, fellow rocketeers ?it was me. ?No need to
thank me today, just buy me a beer the next time you see me. ?I am sure to
need it.?

From melamy at earthlink.net  Tue Apr  7 09:58:26 2009
From: melamy at earthlink.net (melamy at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:58:26 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
Message-ID: <11676336.1239123507032.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I think all those that are coming to FITS, should bring a beer for Paul to thank him for applying for and receiving his LEUP. When the range closes at 6PM Saturday for a few hours, Paul can drink them. Paul, were you planning a night launch? :)

Any brand preference?

best regards, Steve Thatcher
TRA #1424 L2
NAR #54230 L2


From carl20320 at msn.com  Tue Apr  7 10:02:04 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:02:04 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At
	My	Expl. Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <5A295FCF-19D6-4B9A-BA56-791F9BEB14F6@mooreread.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<5A295FCF-19D6-4B9A-BA56-791F9BEB14F6@mooreread.com>
Message-ID: <COL120-W2101508ECF7C7079D3861EA850@phx.gbl>


>From a recent conversations with both Mason Reiter and Mark Aguiar, they were both hoping that we would win the case so they would no longer have to also regulate APCP.  According to what Mason told me in person, if ATF no longer regulates APCP as explosive, they no longer regulate it as explosive.  L&I''s only reason for regulating APCP was because it was on the ATF list.

 

We shall see.

Carl
 
> From: terry at mooreread.com
> To: MartyWeiser at comcast.net
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:58:20 -0700
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
> 
> The only thing I can find in the WAC ... is a note saying that APCP 
> rocket motors may be stored in an attached garage. It seems that the 
> current authority to regulate it comes from the ATF explosives list 
> and not from any explicit state regulation. I'm not saying they 
> couldn't change that. There would need to be a statutory basis for 
> any new regulation.
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 7, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Marty2 wrote:
> 
> > A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
> >
> > From:
> > David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
> > Sent:
> > Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
> > To:
> > absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov; bar0051 at homenetnw.net 
> > ; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net; 
> > hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com; lmceuen at comcast.net 
> > ; rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com; ramberg at icehouse.net 
> > ; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net; Mark.Howe at compucom.com
> > Subject:
> > Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
> >
> > Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor & 
> > Industries (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive 
> > Magazine. Even though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb 
> > 15, 2009, he gave me permission to continue storing rocketry stuff 
> > in the magazine. I had been storing it in my portable magazine in 
> > my garage. My federal LEUP doesn't expire until June 1, 2009. He 
> > was very aware of the recent court decision whereby the NAR 
> > prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
> >
> > 1) The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal 
> > judge's decision. He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their 
> > LEUPs just yet.
> >
> > 2) The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low 
> > Explosive", even though the federal government may give up its 
> > fight. Mr. Aguiar had asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he 
> > got an answer that the State of Washington was inclined to keep 
> > regulating APCP (and, hence, keep requiring a WA Explosive Magazine 
> > license). He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs band together 
> > to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I folks 
> > not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low 
> > Explosive" anymore.
> >
> > 3) The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in 
> > the magazine.
> >
> > 4) I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which 
> > costs ~$25 at the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to 
> > renew my state Explosive Magazine license. I'm not in trouble, but 
> > I must attend to this soon.
> >
> > --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses
> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
> 
> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
> privileged material, and is intended solely
> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
> 
> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
> you have received this in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the copy you received.
> 
> Thank You!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
>From a recent conversations with both Mason Reiter and Mark Aguiar, they were both hoping that we would win the case so they would no longer have to also regulate APCP.? According to what Mason told me in person, if ATF no longer regulates APCP as explosive, they no longer regulate it as explosive.? L&I''s only reason for regulating APCP was because it was on the ATF list.
?
We shall see.
Carl
?
> From: terry at mooreread.com
> To: MartyWeiser at comcast.net
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:58:20 -0700
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
>
> The only thing I can find in the WAC ... is a note saying that APCP
> rocket motors may be stored in an attached garage. It seems that the
> current authority to regulate it comes from the ATF explosives list
> and not from any explicit state regulation. I'm not saying they
> couldn't change that. There would need to be a statutory basis for
> any new regulation.
>
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Marty2 wrote:
>
> > A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
> >
> > From:
> > David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
> > Sent:
> > Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
> > To:
> > absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov; bar0051 at homenetnw.net
> > ; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;
> > hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com; lmceuen at comcast.net
> > ; rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com; ramberg at icehouse.net
> > ; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net; Mark.Howe at compucom.com
> > Subject:
> > Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
> >
> > Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor &
> > Industries (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive
> > Magazine. Even though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb
> > 15, 2009, he gave me permission to continue storing rocketry stuff
> > in the magazine. I had been storing it in my portable magazine in
> > my garage. My federal LEUP doesn't expire until June 1, 2009. He
> > was very aware of the recent court decision whereby the NAR
> > prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
> >
> > 1) The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal
> > judge's decision. He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their
> > LEUPs just yet.
> >
> > 2) The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low
> > Explosive", even though the federal government may give up its
> > fight. Mr. Aguiar had asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he
> > got an answer that the State of Washington was inclined to keep
> > regulating APCP (and, hence, keep requiring a WA Explosive Magazine
> > license). He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs band together
> > to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I folks
> > not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low
> > Explosive" anymore.
> >
> > 3) The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in
> > the magazine.
> >
> > 4) I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which
> > costs ~$25 at the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to
> > renew my state Explosive Magazine license. I'm not in trouble, but
> > I must attend to this soon.
> >
> > --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses
> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>
> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
> privileged material, and is intended solely
> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
>
> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
> you have received this in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the copy you received.
>
> Thank You!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Tue Apr  7 10:09:43 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:09:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked
	AtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <150317FF1851451181CDD46A1053222A@Mobile2>

If I am not mistaken the federal court is above the state court, and ruled
that APCP is not an explosive. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Brian Jarchow
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:47 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked
AtMyExpl.Magazine Today

We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to fight
again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without legislative
authority.

I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the list
know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good friend who
knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two members of the state
house or state senate willing to support us, I really doubt L&I would try to
continue regulating APCP.

Brian

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Scott T Bowers
<scott at scottsrockets.com>wrote:

> Excellent point. If WA tried to regulate it as explosive we already 
> won that battle.
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:13 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked 
> AtMyExpl.
> Magazine Today
>
> My $0.02
>
> My admitedly not law school quality law class that I was required to 
> take when I was getting my Principal's certificate leads me to believe 
> that if a Federal Judge has ruled that APCP is not an explosive, then 
> it would be somewhat less than legal for the state to regulate it as such.
>
> Sounds to me like we should definitely take Mr. Aguiar's suggestion 
> and lobby the state about dropping their regulation of APCP, but we're 
> now dealing from a position of strength, as we have a Federal Court 
> Decision that backs us up.
>
> Peter Schurke
> Teacher and Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> Seattle, WA
>


From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com  Tue Apr  7 10:11:38 2009
From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:11:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked
	AtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>

I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we "wait
and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them that
chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.

I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
our government that currently there are several people in the state with
explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE says
so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there will
be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.

steve bloom




*********************************
We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to
fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
legislative authority.

I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.

Brian


From jhadv at pacifier.com  Tue Apr  7 10:12:09 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:12:09 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.831.1239123517.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090407101002.00c42f60@mail.iinet.com>

At 09:58 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote:
>Thank you, Paul.
>While you are at it, please let me know which launches you are planning to
>attend - I only want to attend launches with good weather!
>
>You aren't planning to attend FITS, are you?


Now that you mention it, it does seem rather windy every time I am out 
there.  From what they tell me the weather clears after I leave but I can't 
attest to that.  As to FITS, no I cannot attend so it follows that it 
should be a glorious day.



From scott at scottsrockets.com  Tue Apr  7 10:17:50 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:17:50 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2><a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <EF342630AA014E57A9415F61FE79E3DD@Mobile2>

Exactly, there have been posts from others who talked to L&I and got the
answer that it will be removed when the ATF removes it. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
To: Brian Jarchow; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today

I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we "wait and
see" before we start asking for permission to something that is completely
legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them that chance first.
If they don't, then we can take next steps.

I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to our
government that currently there are several people in the state with
explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE says so.
However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there will be no
control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.

steve bloom




*********************************
We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to fight
again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without legislative
authority.

I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the list
know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good friend who
knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two members of the state
house or state senate willing to support us, I really doubt L&I would try to
continue regulating APCP.

Brian

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From deyv at europa.com  Tue Apr  7 10:53:59 2009
From: deyv at europa.com (Dave Connet)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:53:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090407101002.00c42f60@mail.iinet.com>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090407101002.00c42f60@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <49DB9337.3080506@europa.com>

Paul,
  It's a beautiful, sunny day here in P'land.
Please stay in your basement today.
TIA,
 d.
-------------- next part --------------
Paul,
? It's a beautiful, sunny day here in P'land.
Please stay in your basement today.
TIA,
?d.

From winningstad at comcast.net  Tue Apr  7 11:11:07 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 11:11:07 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>
References: <mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair>

You still need it for igniters, thermolite etc?????

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
 
It is bad luck to be superstitious.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:21 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE

	I think everyone who flies model rockets owes me a debt of
gratitude.  For 
you see I have become convinced that it was I who made the ultimate 
sacrifice and put into heavenly motion the chain of events that deregulated 
APCP.  You see I applied for, and received, my LEUP.  Therefore, now that I 
have a LEUP, the forces that control the universe thought it right and just 
that it should become as a useless appendage.  Completely irrelevant.  Like 
me.
	This is kind of like the way I buy and sell stocks.  I buy a stock,
it 
goes down.  I sell a stock, it goes up.  I try something smart like selling 
covered calls and the stock absolutely soars.  I bring a shovel to a launch 
my rockets don't burn in.  I forget the shovel and the unspeakable 
happens.  Yes friends, neighbors, fellow rocketeers  it was me.  No need to 
thank me today, just buy me a beer the next time you see me.  I am sure to 
need it.  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Tue Apr  7 11:15:15 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 11:15:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
In-Reply-To: <3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair>
References: <mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>
	<3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair>
Message-ID: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2>

I don't have any igniters, just motor starters and motor starting compounds.



Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 11:11 AM
To: 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE

You still need it for igniters, thermolite etc?????

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
 
It is bad luck to be superstitious.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:21 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE

	I think everyone who flies model rockets owes me a debt of
gratitude.  For you see I have become convinced that it was I who made the
ultimate sacrifice and put into heavenly motion the chain of events that
deregulated APCP.  You see I applied for, and received, my LEUP.  Therefore,
now that I have a LEUP, the forces that control the universe thought it
right and just that it should become as a useless appendage.  Completely
irrelevant.  Like me.
	This is kind of like the way I buy and sell stocks.  I buy a stock,
it goes down.  I sell a stock, it goes up.  I try something smart like
selling covered calls and the stock absolutely soars.  I bring a shovel to a
launch my rockets don't burn in.  I forget the shovel and the unspeakable
happens.  Yes friends, neighbors, fellow rocketeers  it was me.  No need to
thank me today, just buy me a beer the next time you see me.  I am sure to
need it.  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From winningstad at comcast.net  Tue Apr  7 11:15:44 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 11:15:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2><a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>

Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so when it is
time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails and phone
calls :D

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
 
It is bad luck to be superstitious.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
To: Brian Jarchow; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today

I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we "wait
and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them that
chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.

I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
our government that currently there are several people in the state with
explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE says
so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there will
be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.

steve bloom




*********************************
We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to
fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
legislative authority.

I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.

Brian

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From terry at mooreread.com  Tue Apr  7 11:27:12 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 11:27:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
In-Reply-To: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2>
References: <mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>
	<3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair>
	<6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <7F1AF06B-0A22-460F-B99E-E274D7517FE0@mooreread.com>

Again this will take some time to trickle through the system, but  
there's likely no basis for regulating an ignitor which is used with a  
non-explosive device.  Igniters packaged with unregulated motors (and  
replacement ignitors) were themselves considered unregulated.

On Apr 7, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Scott T Bowers wrote:

> I don't have any igniters, just motor starters and motor starting  
> compounds.
>
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> ]
> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 11:11 AM
> To: 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
>
> You still need it for igniters, thermolite etc?????
>
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529
>
> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> ]
> On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:21 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
>
> 	I think everyone who flies model rockets owes me a debt of
> gratitude.  For you see I have become convinced that it was I who  
> made the
> ultimate sacrifice and put into heavenly motion the chain of events  
> that
> deregulated APCP.  You see I applied for, and received, my LEUP.   
> Therefore,
> now that I have a LEUP, the forces that control the universe thought  
> it
> right and just that it should become as a useless appendage.   
> Completely
> irrelevant.  Like me.
> 	This is kind of like the way I buy and sell stocks.  I buy a stock,
> it goes down.  I sell a stock, it goes up.  I try something smart like
> selling covered calls and the stock absolutely soars.  I bring a  
> shovel to a
> launch my rockets don't burn in.  I forget the shovel and the  
> unspeakable
> happens.  Yes friends, neighbors, fellow rocketeers  it was me.  No  
> need to
> thank me today, just buy me a beer the next time you see me.  I am  
> sure to
> need it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>


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From terry at mooreread.com  Tue Apr  7 11:33:19 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 11:33:19 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
In-Reply-To: <7F1AF06B-0A22-460F-B99E-E274D7517FE0@mooreread.com>
References: <mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>
	<3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair>
	<6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2>
	<7F1AF06B-0A22-460F-B99E-E274D7517FE0@mooreread.com>
Message-ID: <2BC431F6-544A-4201-93CE-17E3E4C27563@mooreread.com>

wow two different spellings of igniter in the same email .... must  
need more coffee :-)

On Apr 7, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Terry Moore-Read wrote:

> Again this will take some time to trickle through the system, but
> there's likely no basis for regulating an ignitor which is used with a
> non-explosive device.  Igniters packaged with unregulated motors (and
> replacement ignitors) were themselves considered unregulated.
>
> On Apr 7, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Scott T Bowers wrote:
>
>> I don't have any igniters, just motor starters and motor starting
>> compounds.
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott T. Bowers
>> www.scottsrockets.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 11:11 AM
>> To: 'Paul Bogdanich'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
>>
>> You still need it for igniters, thermolite etc?????
>>
>> Dennis S Winningstad
>> 503-781-3529
>>
>> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:21 AM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
>>
>> 	I think everyone who flies model rockets owes me a debt of
>> gratitude.  For you see I have become convinced that it was I who
>> made the
>> ultimate sacrifice and put into heavenly motion the chain of events
>> that
>> deregulated APCP.  You see I applied for, and received, my LEUP.
>> Therefore,
>> now that I have a LEUP, the forces that control the universe thought
>> it
>> right and just that it should become as a useless appendage.
>> Completely
>> irrelevant.  Like me.
>> 	This is kind of like the way I buy and sell stocks.  I buy a stock,
>> it goes down.  I sell a stock, it goes up.  I try something smart  
>> like
>> selling covered calls and the stock absolutely soars.  I bring a
>> shovel to a
>> launch my rockets don't burn in.  I forget the shovel and the
>> unspeakable
>> happens.  Yes friends, neighbors, fellow rocketeers  it was me.  No
>> need to
>> thank me today, just buy me a beer the next time you see me.  I am
>> sure to
>> need it.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses
> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>
> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
> privileged material, and is intended solely
> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
>
> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
> you have received this in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the copy you received.
>
> Thank You!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>


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review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.

If you are not the recipient, and believe that
you have received this in error, please notify
the sender and delete the copy you received.

Thank You!


From jhadv at pacifier.com  Tue Apr  7 12:30:22 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 12:30:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <7F1AF06B-0A22-460F-B99E-E274D7517FE0@mooreread.com>
References: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2>
	<mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>
	<3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair>
	<6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090407113948.00c4c8a8@mail.iinet.com>

At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote:  "...there's likely no basis for 
regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device.  Igniters 
packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were themselves 
considered unregulated."

	I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with 
unregulated motors..."  The only problem being that said devices are, in 
the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be just 
barely functional.  People of this opinion would point to all the chuffing 
and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch.  Such devices (total 
calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor 
starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated.  I certainly don't 
see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the 
pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire 
would produce more heat.  We don't regulate books of matches do we?
	I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6 
and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas products 
to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well 
within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec for 
a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant 
characteristics).  That's an igniter and I think you're still going to need 
a permit for those.  A NASA Standard would be an example of such an igniter 
albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
	Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and 
thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as 
those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they 
generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave).  I 
suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate 
and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the 
definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not.


From mrrominwa at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  7 18:27:39 2009
From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 18:27:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <907520.54384.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

tell me the next time a day in advance when you are selling stock
???????????????? dave


--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Paul Bogdanich <jhadv at pacifier.com> wrote:

From: Paul Bogdanich <jhadv at pacifier.com>
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 9:20 AM

	I think everyone who flies model rockets owes me a debt of gratitude.  For 
you see I have become convinced that it was I who made the ultimate 
sacrifice and put into heavenly motion the chain of events that deregulated 
APCP.  You see I applied for, and received, my LEUP.  Therefore, now that I 
have a LEUP, the forces that control the universe thought it right and just 
that it should become as a useless appendage.  Completely irrelevant.  Like 
me.
	This is kind of like the way I buy and sell stocks.  I buy a stock, it 
goes down.  I sell a stock, it goes up.  I try something smart like selling 
covered calls and the stock absolutely soars.  I bring a shovel to a launch 
my rockets don't burn in.  I forget the shovel and the unspeakable 
happens.  Yes friends, neighbors, fellow rocketeers  it was me.  No need to 
thank me today, just buy me a beer the next time you see me.  I am sure to 
need it.  

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  



      
-------------- next part --------------
tell me the next time a day in advance when you are selling stock
???????????????? dave
--- On
Tue, 4/7/09, Paul Bogdanich
<jhadv at pacifier.com>
wrote:
From: Paul Bogdanich <jhadv at pacifier.com>
Subject: [RocketsNW] A DEBT OF GRATITUDE
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 9:20 AM
I think everyone who flies model rockets owes me a debt of gratitude. For you see I have become convinced that it was I who made the ultimate sacrifice and put into heavenly motion the chain of events that deregulated APCP. You see I applied for, and received, my LEUP. Therefore, now that I have a LEUP, the forces that control the universe thought it right and just that it should become as a useless appendage. Completely irrelevant. Like me. This is kind of like the way I buy and sell stocks. I buy a stock, it goes down. I sell a stock, it goes up. I try something smart like selling covered calls and the stock absolutely soars. I bring a shovel to a launch my rockets don't burn in. I forget the shovel and the unspeakable happens. Yes friends, neighbors, fellow rocketeers it was me. No need to thank me today, just buy me a beer the next time you see me. I am sure to need it. _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From bar0051 at homenetnw.net  Tue Apr  7 19:49:09 2009
From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:49:09 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At
	MyExpl. Magazine Today
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<5A295FCF-19D6-4B9A-BA56-791F9BEB14F6@mooreread.com>
Message-ID: <24B51080CE704A79A485EF4F33F11ADB@MEDIONDeskTop>

It appears to me that WAC 296-52-60130 uses US DOT classifications as well 
as AFT, so unless there is a change in state regs, we are still stuck :(

http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/rules/explosives/HTML/52-a.htm#WAC296-52-60130
Explosives classifications. Explosives classifications include, but are not 
limited to:

  a.. Division 1.1 and Division 1.2 explosives (possess mass explosion or 
detonating hazard):
    a.. Dynamite
    b.. Nitroglycerin
    c.. Picric acid
    d.. Lead azide
    e.. Fulminate of mercury
    f.. Black powder (exceeding 5 pounds)
    g.. Detonators (in quantities of 1,001 or more)
    h.. Detonating primers
  a.. Division 1.3 explosives (possess a minor blast hazard, a minor 
projection hazard, or a flammable hazard):
    a.. Propellant explosives
    b.. Smokeless powder (exceeding 50 pounds)
  a.. Division 1.4 explosives:
    a.. Explosives that present a minor explosion hazard
    b.. Includes detonators that will not mass detonate in quantities of 
1,000 or less
  a.. Division 1.5 explosives
    a.. Explosives with a mass explosion hazard but are so insensitive that 
there is little probability of initiation
    b.. ANFO and most other blasting agents in this division
  a.. Divsion 1.6 explosives:
    a.. Explosives that are extremely insensitive and don't have a mass 
explosion hazard
Explosives international markings.

  a.. The department will accept U.S. DOT and/or ATF international 
identification markings on explosives and/or explosives containers or 
packaging

  b.. This exception is under the authority of RCW 70.74.020(3) and in lieu 
of Washington state designated markings (as defined by RCW 70.74.010(4) 
(Division 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3) and required by RCW 70.74.300

Bryon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Terry Moore-Read" <terry at mooreread.com>
To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>
Cc: "Rockets NW list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At 
MyExpl. Magazine Today


> The only thing I can find in the WAC ... is a note saying that APCP
> rocket motors may be stored in an attached garage.   It seems that the
> current authority to regulate it comes from the ATF explosives list
> and not from any explicit state regulation.    I'm not saying they
> couldn't change that.  There would need to be a statutory basis for
> any new regulation.
>
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Marty2 wrote:
>
>> A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
>>
>> From:
>> David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
>> Sent:
>> Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
>> To:
>> absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov; 
>> bar0051 at homenetnw.net
>> ; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;
>> hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com; 
>> lmceuen at comcast.net
>> ; rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com; 
>> ramberg at icehouse.net
>> ; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net; Mark.Howe at compucom.com
>> Subject:
>> Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
>>
>> Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor &
>> Industries (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive
>> Magazine.  Even though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb
>> 15, 2009, he gave me permission to continue storing rocketry stuff
>> in the magazine.  I had been storing it in my portable magazine in
>> my garage.  My federal LEUP doesn't expire until June 1, 2009.  He
>> was very aware of the recent court decision whereby the NAR
>> prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
>>
>> 1)  The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal
>> judge's decision.  He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their
>> LEUPs just yet.
>>
>> 2)  The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low
>> Explosive", even though the federal government may give up its
>> fight.  Mr. Aguiar had asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he
>> got an answer that the State of Washington was inclined to keep
>> regulating APCP (and, hence, keep requiring a WA Explosive Magazine
>> license).  He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs band together
>> to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I folks
>> not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low
>> Explosive" anymore.
>>
>> 3)  The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in
>> the magazine.
>>
>> 4)  I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which
>> costs ~$25 at the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to
>> renew my state Explosive Magazine license.  I'm not in trouble, but
>> I must attend to this soon.
>>
>>    --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses
> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>
> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
> privileged material, and is intended solely
> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
>
> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
> you have received this in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the copy you received.
>
> Thank You!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 


From bar0051 at homenetnw.net  Tue Apr  7 20:03:00 2009
From: bar0051 at homenetnw.net (Bryon Schopp)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:03:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked
	AtMy	Expl. Magazine Today
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><5A295FCF-19D6-4B9A-BA56-791F9BEB14F6@mooreread.com>
	<COL120-W2101508ECF7C7079D3861EA850@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <09ABF176BF394A7095E44032577061CE@MEDIONDeskTop>

I sure hope you are right.

Bryon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl Degner" <carl20320 at msn.com>
To: "Rockets NW list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked AtMy 
Expl. Magazine Today



>From a recent conversations with both Mason Reiter and Mark Aguiar, they 
>were both hoping that we would win the case so they would no longer have to 
>also regulate APCP.  According to what Mason told me in person, if ATF no 
>longer regulates APCP as explosive, they no longer regulate it as 
>explosive.  L&I''s only reason for regulating APCP was because it was on 
>the ATF list.



We shall see.

Carl

> From: terry at mooreread.com
> To: MartyWeiser at comcast.net
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:58:20 -0700
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My 
> Expl. Magazine Today
>
> The only thing I can find in the WAC ... is a note saying that APCP
> rocket motors may be stored in an attached garage. It seems that the
> current authority to regulate it comes from the ATF explosives list
> and not from any explicit state regulation. I'm not saying they
> couldn't change that. There would need to be a statutory basis for
> any new regulation.
>
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Marty2 wrote:
>
> > A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
> >
> > From:
> > David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
> > Sent:
> > Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
> > To:
> > absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov; 
> > bar0051 at homenetnw.net
> > ; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;
> > hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com; 
> > lmceuen at comcast.net
> > ; rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com; 
> > ramberg at icehouse.net
> > ; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net; Mark.Howe at compucom.com
> > Subject:
> > Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
> >
> > Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor &
> > Industries (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive
> > Magazine. Even though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb
> > 15, 2009, he gave me permission to continue storing rocketry stuff
> > in the magazine. I had been storing it in my portable magazine in
> > my garage. My federal LEUP doesn't expire until June 1, 2009. He
> > was very aware of the recent court decision whereby the NAR
> > prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
> >
> > 1) The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal
> > judge's decision. He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their
> > LEUPs just yet.
> >
> > 2) The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low
> > Explosive", even though the federal government may give up its
> > fight. Mr. Aguiar had asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he
> > got an answer that the State of Washington was inclined to keep
> > regulating APCP (and, hence, keep requiring a WA Explosive Magazine
> > license). He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs band together
> > to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I folks
> > not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low
> > Explosive" anymore.
> >
> > 3) The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in
> > the magazine.
> >
> > 4) I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which
> > costs ~$25 at the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to
> > renew my state Explosive Magazine license. I'm not in trouble, but
> > I must attend to this soon.
> >
> > --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses
> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>
> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
> privileged material, and is intended solely
> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
>
> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
> you have received this in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the copy you received.
>
> Thank You!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Tue Apr  7 19:42:01 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:42:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
 LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2><a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
Message-ID: <c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
reference the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far as
regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep the
fire marshal happy.  Especially in places like King county.

Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to storing
stuff they consider darn flammable.
+McG+


> Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so when it is
> time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails and
> phone
> calls :D
>
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529
>
> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
> To: Brian Jarchow; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>
> I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we "wait
> and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
> completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them that
> chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
>
> I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
> our government that currently there are several people in the state with
> explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE says
> so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there will
> be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
>
> steve bloom
>
>
>
>
> *********************************
> We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to
> fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
> legislative authority.
>
> I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
> list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
> friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
> members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
> really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From scott at scottsrockets.com  Tue Apr  7 20:45:23 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:45:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2><a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <E843D70F081D4F90ACF81136F39D70FD@Mobile2>

Yup, so I will put those motors right next to the gas can, the bag of flour,
and all the paint cans. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
To: Dennis Winningstad
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today

Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by reference
the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far as regulating
APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep the fire marshal
happy.  Especially in places like King county.

Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to storing
stuff they consider darn flammable.
+McG+


> Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so when 
> it is time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail 
> mails and phone calls :D
>
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529
>
> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
> To: Brian Jarchow; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) 
> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>
> I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we "wait 
> and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is 
> completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them 
> that chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
>
> I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to 
> our government that currently there are several people in the state 
> with explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because 
> BATFE says so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, 
> there will be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their
house.
>
> steve bloom
>
>
>
>
> *********************************
> We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to 
> fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without 
> legislative authority.
>
> I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the 
> list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good 
> friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two 
> members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I 
> really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From jim at jmw29221.com  Tue Apr  7 23:42:01 2009
From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:42:01 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At
 MyExpl. Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <24B51080CE704A79A485EF4F33F11ADB@MEDIONDeskTop>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<5A295FCF-19D6-4B9A-BA56-791F9BEB14F6@mooreread.com>
	<24B51080CE704A79A485EF4F33F11ADB@MEDIONDeskTop>
Message-ID: <d794ed4f27934ca0a1ee6d18ff0706ea@mx1.blastzone.com>

Bryon et al - 

This is how I understand the way forward after speaking with Mason.  Even
if the ATF verdict is upheld, APCP is still classified, by state law for WA
L&I purposes, as an explosive and subsequently requires a permit and
storage in a magazine.

As has been suggested earlier, we will have to petition the legislature to
change state law once the verdict on the lawsuit is final.  I think that
the verdict being upheld would give us a strong case with the state
legislature, but it's not an automatic reversal, again for L&I purposes.

Regards
Jim

On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:49:09 -0700, "Bryon Schopp" <bar0051 at homenetnw.net>
wrote:
> It appears to me that WAC 296-52-60130 uses US DOT classifications as
well 
> as AFT, so unless there is a change in state regs, we are still stuck :(
> 
>
http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/rules/explosives/HTML/52-a.htm#WAC296-52-60130
> Explosives classifications. Explosives classifications include, but are
not
> 
> limited to:
> 
>   a.. Division 1.1 and Division 1.2 explosives (possess mass explosion or

> detonating hazard):
>     a.. Dynamite
>     b.. Nitroglycerin
>     c.. Picric acid
>     d.. Lead azide
>     e.. Fulminate of mercury
>     f.. Black powder (exceeding 5 pounds)
>     g.. Detonators (in quantities of 1,001 or more)
>     h.. Detonating primers
>   a.. Division 1.3 explosives (possess a minor blast hazard, a minor 
> projection hazard, or a flammable hazard):
>     a.. Propellant explosives
>     b.. Smokeless powder (exceeding 50 pounds)
>   a.. Division 1.4 explosives:
>     a.. Explosives that present a minor explosion hazard
>     b.. Includes detonators that will not mass detonate in quantities of 
> 1,000 or less
>   a.. Division 1.5 explosives
>     a.. Explosives with a mass explosion hazard but are so insensitive
that
> there is little probability of initiation
>     b.. ANFO and most other blasting agents in this division
>   a.. Divsion 1.6 explosives:
>     a.. Explosives that are extremely insensitive and don't have a mass 
> explosion hazard
> Explosives international markings.
> 
>   a.. The department will accept U.S. DOT and/or ATF international 
> identification markings on explosives and/or explosives containers or 
> packaging
> 
>   b.. This exception is under the authority of RCW 70.74.020(3) and in
lieu
> of Washington state designated markings (as defined by RCW 70.74.010(4) 
> (Division 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3) and required by RCW 70.74.300
> 
> Bryon
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Terry Moore-Read" <terry at mooreread.com>
> To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>
> Cc: "Rockets NW list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 8:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At 
> MyExpl. Magazine Today
> 
> 
>> The only thing I can find in the WAC ... is a note saying that APCP
>> rocket motors may be stored in an attached garage.   It seems that the
>> current authority to regulate it comes from the ATF explosives list
>> and not from any explicit state regulation.    I'm not saying they
>> couldn't change that.  There would need to be a statutory basis for
>> any new regulation.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 7, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Marty2 wrote:
>>
>>> A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
>>>
>>> From:
>>> David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
>>> Sent:
>>> Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
>>> To:
>>> absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov; 
>>> bar0051 at homenetnw.net
>>> ; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;
>>> hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com; 
>>> lmceuen at comcast.net
>>> ; rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com; 
>>> ramberg at icehouse.net
>>> ; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net;
Mark.Howe at compucom.com
>>> Subject:
>>> Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
>>>
>>> Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor &
>>> Industries (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive
>>> Magazine.  Even though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb
>>> 15, 2009, he gave me permission to continue storing rocketry stuff
>>> in the magazine.  I had been storing it in my portable magazine in
>>> my garage.  My federal LEUP doesn't expire until June 1, 2009.  He
>>> was very aware of the recent court decision whereby the NAR
>>> prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
>>>
>>> 1)  The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal
>>> judge's decision.  He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their
>>> LEUPs just yet.
>>>
>>> 2)  The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low
>>> Explosive", even though the federal government may give up its
>>> fight.  Mr. Aguiar had asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he
>>> got an answer that the State of Washington was inclined to keep
>>> regulating APCP (and, hence, keep requiring a WA Explosive Magazine
>>> license).  He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs band together
>>> to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I folks
>>> not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low
>>> Explosive" anymore.
>>>
>>> 3)  The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in
>>> the magazine.
>>>
>>> 4)  I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which
>>> costs ~$25 at the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to
>>> renew my state Explosive Magazine license.  I'm not in trouble, but
>>> I must attend to this soon.
>>>
>>>    --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses
>> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>>
>> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
>> privileged material, and is intended solely
>> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
>> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
>> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
>>
>> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
>> you have received this in error, please notify
>> the sender and delete the copy you received.
>>
>> Thank You!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From winningstad at comcast.net  Wed Apr  8 05:29:19 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 05:29:19 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At
	MyExpl. Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <d794ed4f27934ca0a1ee6d18ff0706ea@mx1.blastzone.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><5A295FCF-19D6-4B9A-BA56-791F9BEB14F6@mooreread.com><24B51080CE704A79A485EF4F33F11ADB@MEDIONDeskTop>
	<d794ed4f27934ca0a1ee6d18ff0706ea@mx1.blastzone.com>
Message-ID: <B3F6691C2AC04D8EA07DFC0AA0147154@downstair>

Worshingtun...

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
 
It is bad luck to be superstitious.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of jim at jmw29221.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 11:42 PM
To: Bryon Schopp
Cc: Rockets NW list; Marty2
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At
MyExpl. Magazine Today
Importance: Low

Bryon et al - 

This is how I understand the way forward after speaking with Mason.  Even
if the ATF verdict is upheld, APCP is still classified, by state law for WA
L&I purposes, as an explosive and subsequently requires a permit and
storage in a magazine.

As has been suggested earlier, we will have to petition the legislature to
change state law once the verdict on the lawsuit is final.  I think that
the verdict being upheld would give us a strong case with the state
legislature, but it's not an automatic reversal, again for L&I purposes.

Regards
Jim

On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:49:09 -0700, "Bryon Schopp" <bar0051 at homenetnw.net>
wrote:
> It appears to me that WAC 296-52-60130 uses US DOT classifications as
well 
> as AFT, so unless there is a change in state regs, we are still stuck :(
> 
>
http://www.lni.wa.gov/wisha/rules/explosives/HTML/52-a.htm#WAC296-52-60130
> Explosives classifications. Explosives classifications include, but are
not
> 
> limited to:
> 
>   a.. Division 1.1 and Division 1.2 explosives (possess mass explosion or

> detonating hazard):
>     a.. Dynamite
>     b.. Nitroglycerin
>     c.. Picric acid
>     d.. Lead azide
>     e.. Fulminate of mercury
>     f.. Black powder (exceeding 5 pounds)
>     g.. Detonators (in quantities of 1,001 or more)
>     h.. Detonating primers
>   a.. Division 1.3 explosives (possess a minor blast hazard, a minor 
> projection hazard, or a flammable hazard):
>     a.. Propellant explosives
>     b.. Smokeless powder (exceeding 50 pounds)
>   a.. Division 1.4 explosives:
>     a.. Explosives that present a minor explosion hazard
>     b.. Includes detonators that will not mass detonate in quantities of 
> 1,000 or less
>   a.. Division 1.5 explosives
>     a.. Explosives with a mass explosion hazard but are so insensitive
that
> there is little probability of initiation
>     b.. ANFO and most other blasting agents in this division
>   a.. Divsion 1.6 explosives:
>     a.. Explosives that are extremely insensitive and don't have a mass 
> explosion hazard
> Explosives international markings.
> 
>   a.. The department will accept U.S. DOT and/or ATF international 
> identification markings on explosives and/or explosives containers or 
> packaging
> 
>   b.. This exception is under the authority of RCW 70.74.020(3) and in
lieu
> of Washington state designated markings (as defined by RCW 70.74.010(4) 
> (Division 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3) and required by RCW 70.74.300
> 
> Bryon
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Terry Moore-Read" <terry at mooreread.com>
> To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>
> Cc: "Rockets NW list" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 8:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At 
> MyExpl. Magazine Today
> 
> 
>> The only thing I can find in the WAC ... is a note saying that APCP
>> rocket motors may be stored in an attached garage.   It seems that the
>> current authority to regulate it comes from the ATF explosives list
>> and not from any explicit state regulation.    I'm not saying they
>> couldn't change that.  There would need to be a statutory basis for
>> any new regulation.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 7, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Marty2 wrote:
>>
>>> A little feedback from a Washington L&I Inspection.
>>>
>>> From:
>>> David Luders [mailto:LudersDG at MSN.com]
>>> Sent:
>>> Monday, April 06, 2009 4:30 PM
>>> To:
>>> absworld at cet.com; tyeeking at hotmail.com; bret.simpkins at pnl.gov; 
>>> bar0051 at homenetnw.net
>>> ; jcooney805 at comcast.net; the.vogels at verizon.net;
>>> hans.vogel at pnl.gov; JSHalstead at aol.com; jim at otisace.com; 
>>> lmceuen at comcast.net
>>> ; rocfish74 at hotmail.com; martyweiser at comcast.net; rob at otisace.com; 
>>> ramberg at icehouse.net
>>> ; Jinxblink at hotmail.com; raystoner99 at comcast.net;
Mark.Howe at compucom.com
>>> Subject:
>>> Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) Looked At My Expl. Magazine Today
>>>
>>> Mark Aguiar of the State of Washington Department of Labor &
>>> Industries (L&I) just finished his annual inspection of my Explosive
>>> Magazine.  Even though my WA L&I magazine license had expired on Feb
>>> 15, 2009, he gave me permission to continue storing rocketry stuff
>>> in the magazine.  I had been storing it in my portable magazine in
>>> my garage.  My federal LEUP doesn't expire until June 1, 2009.  He
>>> was very aware of the recent court decision whereby the NAR
>>> prevailed over the BATFE, but he made these points:
>>>
>>> 1)  The BATFE has 60 days in which they can appeal the federal
>>> judge's decision.  He advised that rocketeers DON'T rip up their
>>> LEUPs just yet.
>>>
>>> 2)  The State of Washington could still regulate APCP as a "Low
>>> Explosive", even though the federal government may give up its
>>> fight.  Mr. Aguiar had asked his boss in Tumwater about this, and he
>>> got an answer that the State of Washington was inclined to keep
>>> regulating APCP (and, hence, keep requiring a WA Explosive Magazine
>>> license).  He recommended that the WA rocketry clubs band together
>>> to get the ear of a state legislator, to convince the WA L&I folks
>>> not to regulate APCP if the BATFE doesn't consider it a "Low
>>> Explosive" anymore.
>>>
>>> 3)  The 1-lb. tin of FFFFg black powder doesn't have to be stored in
>>> the magazine.
>>>
>>> 4)  I must send in my $124.25 fee, plus fingerprint card (which
>>> costs ~$25 at the Airway Heights Police Department to get done), to
>>> renew my state Explosive Magazine license.  I'm not in trouble, but
>>> I must attend to this soon.
>>>
>>>    --- Dave Luders, SPARC, NAR #81772 L2
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses
>> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
>>
>> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
>> privileged material, and is intended solely
>> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
>> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
>> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
>>
>> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
>> you have received this in error, please notify
>> the sender and delete the copy you received.
>>
>> Thank You!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Apr  8 07:20:15 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 07:20:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington State L&I - FYI
In-Reply-To: <003b01c9a744$9cd85dd0$d6891970$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <13916B0443484F94A40E4D7A68F1754D@Mobile2>	<F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB3FB4E403@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>	<A72FACF2C338451BA4EC5B416F3BFED9@Mobile2><F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB3FB4E420@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>
	<003b01c9a744$9cd85dd0$d6891970$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <F44D2353E2D5495B9E712F1134F7DF28@Mobile2>

Here is what Kent got from L&I.  


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:09 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington State L&I - FYI

Greetings all,

Although the L&I - Explosives Division is likely as thrilled as we are with
the NAR/TRA vs BATFE ruling yesterday, L&I regulations are treated as state
law and any changes have to be passed before the legislature.  

The L&I tells me that they will take next steps after hearing confirmation
from the ATF on what the ATF position is on the decision.  That is to say,
if the ATF acknowledges Judge Walton's ruling as most think they will, the
ATF will notify the L&I that they no longer have APCP on their low
explosives list.  The Explosives Division will pass on the ATF declaration
to a review board of the L&I, the board will ask for recommendations from
the Explosives Division, Explosives will respond favorably and the
legislative change process will begin.

If the ATF acknowledges the ruling to be immediate as we all do, that
communication should come fairly quickly; the State and ATF are in daily
contact.

Until then, the current state law regarding permitting remains as is.

FYI.

Regards,

Kent Newman
Washington Aerospace



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Rockets at rocketsnw.com
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From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  8 17:42:12 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:42:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
In-Reply-To: <013701c9b6c6$f00c7d60$d0257820$@com>
References: <445249.86289.qm@web39705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BLU135-W16A334977987B912ABE071A6840@phx.gbl>
	<013701c9b6c6$f00c7d60$d0257820$@com> 
Message-ID: <BLU135-W210194FEC0C821543CAF7AA6830@phx.gbl>


Sheesh, I was just ASKING. They do make life a little easier for the other half of the rocket team. I, am just fine in the tent.
 
On a ROCKETRY note. We had Val's grandson over from Gig Harbor for the week. He's 9. I got him an Estes SkyWriter so he and his uncle could biuld it.
 
Saturday we drove out to the Snell Ranch to check things out and deliver a note from Kent. Tom's great. He asked if there was anything I thought we needed done. The field looks great, the mowed areas haven't started growing yet, and the road in is fine. Told him we'll get back to him about the upcoming launch.
 
Anyway, we arrived about 10ish to 2-5 mph winds and lots of sunshine. Got my pad set up and the controller hooked up. I decided to do an alphabet ladder per Bob Y. So.....
 
We got Adam's rocket out to prep. Went through it with him and he did the rest. First flight was on an A8-3. Perfect. Adam got to be LCO for the day. :)

Next flight was on a B4-4. Again perfect. While he was on recovery I prepped my Estes Patriot for a C6-5 flight. When Adam hit the button, the rocket went to about 30' and then made a 90 degree right turn to the road. Fired the ejection charge on the ground. Pretty much buggerd. Oh well, welcome to rocketry Adam. So.... the Skywriter was due up on a C. Adam did the prep and loaded a C from the same package. Instant CATO on the pad. Blew the nozzle out the back and everything else out the top. Bummed kid. Had his first success and failure within 20 min. Estes has been notified as well as NAR.

 

So just to see.... we took the third motor of the pack and put it in the ground for a test firing so we wouldn't use it in a rocket. You got it, perfect burn and ejection. Go figure.

 

THE REST OF THE FLIGHTS :

RedMax on B6-4

Goblin clone on D12-5

Baby Fat ( .75 downscale of FatBoy) on A3-4t
FatMax on D12-5

Cosmodrome Nike Smoke on G76g-M Green hobby motor. First time I've flown one of these.

WOW! Gone like a shot to about 2000'.

Last was my Patriot 2.6 sratch build on a G54-m Nice flight and recovery.

 

Packed up and went to the Sunflower Cafe for lunch. Great people and food.

 

 

Mark


 





From: absworld at cet.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:49:50 -0700








Say it ain?t so.
Mark (or is it Mary) Lyons contemplating a wimp trailer.
 
Horror of horrors.
I only bring mine under extreme duress and NEVER enjoy it or derive any pleasure or comfort, just gobs of guilt.
Next, you?ll be sleeping late and I?ll have to make my own early morning coffee.
 
Oh, that reminds me, I?d better check my propane tank and get the battery topped off J
 
bob
 


From: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com [mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 5:19 AM
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
 
DANGIT!! ;0)
 



Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 18:48:41 -0700
From: nar62887 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com




Sold it for $1500 to our Emergency Management Director, who in turn went to Medford, OR with it.  Worked very well!

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 7:58 PM

So...where'd the "short" one go?
 



Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 18:00:35 -0700
From: nar62887 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com




Ah, rocket addicts.  Gotta love 'em!!!  I just purchased a new 34 foot class A RV just so I could attend BMR launches in comfort.  (At least that's what I told my wife.  She gave me "the look" if you know what I mean.)

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 2:22 PM

I come from Cashmere. Have Tent Will Travel. :)
 



From: wtmcassandra at gmail.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:15:55 -0700

Ah.  But if people can't show up to launches because the hotel is full, then we are in a similar boat.  It's definitely something to study on.   

 

Could folks who come from a distance chime in and express a preference?  I mean those who normally need the hotel. 

 

I guess the good news is that if we change it, at least we are giving three months' notice.

 

Or, we could just suck it up.  Easy for me to say since I am no more qualified to go up on the next shuttle than to serve as a launch officer and help with the manning shortfall.

 

Sherrill

 


On Apr 3, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Tim Quigg wrote:

 





We could, but consider this...

 

We've already changed the May launch to facilitate training on my part.  We've also cancelled/rescheduled three launch dates already this year and we haven't gotten a single rocket in the air so far!  I'm afraid if we keep messing around with our published launch schedule, pretty soon we won't have anyone showing up at our launches because BMR launches are too "unreliable" to make plans ahead of time.  

 

See the problem?

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, wtmcassandra <wtmcassandra at gmail.com> wrote:


From: wtmcassandra <wtmcassandra at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 11:59 AM


Could the BoD consider changing the September 09 launch date to make  
life easier for all?

Sherrill

On Apr 3, 2009, at 11:44 AM, bluemountainrocketeers at yahoo.com wrote:

>
> I appreciate the offer Dave, but unless you have your motel room
> already reserved for Rolling Thunder now, I doubt there will be any
> room at the Blue Mountain Motel available for you.
>
> We scheduled Rolling Thunder this year for the same weekend as last
> year.  Unfortunately, last year was a leap year.  The Columbia County
> Fair is always held the first weekend after labor day, which is the
> first Monday in September.  Because it was a leap year last year, it
> worked out.  This year, we got nailed.  So next year we will schedule
> Rolling Thunder for the THIRD weekend in September to avoid any
> problems......
>
> On Apr 3, 11:07 am, "Davis, David A" <David.A.Da... at boeing.com> wrote:
>> I'm in if you need me.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tim Quigg [mailto:nar62... at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:05 AM
>> To: The Blue Mountain Rocketeers
>> Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
>>
>> Sounds like we will only need someone to oversee the launch on  
>> Friday, as that's the only time they will need me at the  
>> fairgrounds.  So, this may still work out okay.  I usually take  
>> stuff out and set up Thursday afternoon after I get off work.  Can  
>> still do that.  What we will need is someone to act as LD, RSO's  
>> and LCO's on Friday.  It looks like I'll be available on site  
>> Saturday and Sunday.
>>
>> Anyone want to take a crack at Launch Director on Friday from 9:00  
>> a.m. to  6:00 p.m.?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Apr 3, 11:00 am, Tim Quigg <nar62... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> For those of you who are planning on attending Rolling Thunder in
>>> September, I have just learned that the Columbia County Fair is  
>>> going
>>> to be the SAME weekend as Rolling Thunder.  In other words, unless  
>>> you
>>> have a motel room reserved for that weekend, you are out of luck.  I
>>> will probably also be unable to attend the launch, as I have
>>> committments with the Sheriff's Office and 9-1-1 Public Education to
>>> take care of.  I may be able to drop by from time to time to see how
>>> things are going, but that's all.  So, we are going to need
>>> volunteers.... lots of volunteers within BMR to step up to the plate
>>> to set up, oversee the launch and run it.
>>
>>> Tim Quigg
>>> Section Advisor
>>> BMR # 615- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> >





 





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-------------- next part --------------
Sheesh, I was just ASKING. They do make life a little easier for the other half of the rocket team. I, am just fine in the tent.
?
On a ROCKETRY note. We had Val's grandson over from Gig Harbor for?the week. He's 9.?I got him an Estes SkyWriter so he and his uncle could biuld it.
?
Saturday we drove out to the Snell Ranch to check things out and deliver a note from Kent. Tom's great. He asked if there was anything I thought we needed done. The field looks great, the mowed areas haven't started growing yet, and the road in is fine. Told him we'll get back to him about the upcoming launch.
?
Anyway, we arrived about 10ish to 2-5 mph winds and?lots of sunshine. Got my pad set up and the controller hooked up. I decided to do an alphabet ladder per Bob Y. So.....
?
We got Adam's rocket out to prep. Went through it with him and he did the rest. First flight was on an A8-3. Perfect. Adam got to be LCO for the day. :)
Next flight was on a B4-4. Again perfect. While he was on recovery I prepped my Estes Patriot for a C6-5 flight. When Adam hit the button, the rocket went to about 30' and then made a?90 degree right turn?to the road. Fired the ejection charge on the ground. Pretty much buggerd. Oh well, welcome to rocketry?Adam. So.... the Skywriter was due up on a C. Adam did the prep and loaded a C from the same package. Instant CATO on the pad. Blew the nozzle out the back and everything else out the top. Bummed kid. Had his first success and failure within 20 min. Estes has been notified as well as NAR.
?
So just to see.... we took the third motor of the pack and put it in the ground for a test firing so we wouldn't use it in a rocket. You got it, perfect burn and ejection. Go figure.
?
THE REST OF THE FLIGHTS :
RedMax on B6-4
Goblin clone on D12-5
Baby Fat ( .75 downscale of FatBoy) on A3-4t
FatMax on D12-5
Cosmodrome Nike Smoke on G76g-M Green hobby motor. First time I've flown one of these.
WOW! Gone like a shot to about 2000'.
Last was my Patriot 2.6 sratch build on a G54-m Nice flight and recovery.
?
Packed up and went to the Sunflower Cafe for lunch. Great people and food.
?
?
Mark
?
From: absworld at cet.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:49:50 -0700
Say it ain?t so.
Mark (or is it Mary) Lyons contemplating a wimp trailer.
?
Horror of horrors.
I only bring mine under extreme duress and NEVER enjoy it or derive any pleasure or comfort, just gobs of guilt.
Next, you?ll be sleeping late and I?ll have to make my own early morning coffee.
?
Oh, that reminds me, I?d better check my propane tank and get the battery topped off
J
?
bob
?
From:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com [mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of
Mark Lyons
Sent:
Monday, April 06, 2009 5:19 AM
To:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject:
RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
?
DANGIT!! ;0)
?
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 18:48:41 -0700
From: mailto:nar62887 at yahoo.com nar62887 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Sold it for $1500 to our Emergency Management Director, who in turn went to Medford, OR with it.? Worked very well!
--- On
Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Lyons
< mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
wrote:
From: Mark Lyons < mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 7:58 PM
So...where'd the "short" one go?
?
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 18:00:35 -0700
From: mailto:nar62887 at yahoo.com nar62887 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Ah, rocket addicts.? Gotta love 'em!!!? I just purchased a new 34 foot class A RV just so I could attend BMR launches in comfort.? (At least that's what I told my wife.? She gave me "the look" if you know what I mean.)
--- On
Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Lyons
< mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
wrote:
From: Mark Lyons < mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 2:22 PM
I come from Cashmere. Have Tent Will Travel. :)
?
From: wtmcassandra at gmail.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:15:55 -0700
Ah. ?But if people can't show up to launches because the hotel is full, then we are in a similar boat. ?It's definitely something to study on. ?
?
Could folks who come from a distance chime in and express a preference? ?I mean those who normally need the hotel.?
?
I guess the good news is that if we change it, at least we are giving three months' notice.
?
Or, we could just suck it up. ?Easy for me to say since I am no more qualified to go up on the next shuttle than to serve as a launch officer and help with the manning shortfall.
?
Sherrill
?
On Apr 3, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Tim Quigg wrote:
?
We could, but consider this...
?
We've already changed the May launch to facilitate training on my part.? We've also cancelled/rescheduled three launch dates already this year and we haven't gotten a single rocket in the air so far!? I'm afraid if we keep messing around with our published launch schedule, pretty soon we won't have anyone showing up at our launches because BMR launches are too "unreliable" to make plans ahead of time.?
?
See the problem?
--- On
Fri, 4/3/09, wtmcassandra
< http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wtmcassandra at gmail.com wtmcassandra at gmail.com
>
wrote:
From: wtmcassandra < http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wtmcassandra at gmail.com wtmcassandra at gmail.com
>
Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 11:59 AM
Could the BoD consider changing the September 09 launch date to make?
life easier for all?
Sherrill
On Apr 3, 2009, at 11:44 AM, http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bluemountainrocketeers at yahoo.com bluemountainrocketeers at yahoo.com
wrote:
>
> I appreciate the offer Dave, but unless you have your motel room
> already reserved for Rolling Thunder now, I doubt there will be any
> room at the Blue Mountain Motel available for you.
>
> We scheduled Rolling Thunder this year for the same weekend as last
> year.? Unfortunately, last year was a leap year.? The Columbia County
> Fair is always held the first weekend after labor day, which is the
> first Monday in September.? Because it was a leap year last year, it
> worked out.? This year, we got nailed.? So next year we will schedule
> Rolling Thunder for the THIRD weekend in September to avoid any
> problems......
>
> On Apr 3, 11:07 am, "Davis, David A" < http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=David.A.Da... at boeing.com David.A.Da... at boeing.com
> wrote:
>> I'm in if you need me.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tim Quigg [mailto: http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nar62... at yahoo.com nar62... at yahoo.com
]
>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:05 AM
>> To: The Blue Mountain Rocketeers
>> Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
>>
>> Sounds like we will only need someone to oversee the launch on?
>> Friday, as that's the only time they will need me at the?
>> fairgrounds.? So, this may still work out okay.? I usually take?
>> stuff out and set up Thursday afternoon after I get off work.? Can?
>> still do that.? What we will need is someone to act as LD, RSO's?
>> and LCO's on Friday.? It looks like I'll be available on site?
>> Saturday and Sunday.
>>
>> Anyone want to take a crack at Launch Director on Friday from 9:00?
>> a.m. to? 6:00 p.m.?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Apr 3, 11:00 am, Tim Quigg < http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nar62... at yahoo.com nar62... at yahoo.com
> wrote:
>>> For those of you who are planning on attending Rolling Thunder in
>>> September, I have just learned that the Columbia County Fair is?
>>> going
>>> to be the SAME weekend as Rolling Thunder.? In other words, unless?
>>> you
>>> have a motel room reserved for that weekend, you are out of luck.? I
>>> will probably also be unable to attend the launch, as I have
>>> committments with the Sheriff's Office and 9-1-1 Public Education to
>>> take care of.? I may be able to drop by from time to time to see how
>>> things are going, but that's all.? So, we are going to need
>>> volunteers.... lots of volunteers within BMR to step up to the plate
>>> to set up, oversee the launch and run it.
>>
>>> Tim Quigg
>>> Section Advisor
>>> BMR # 615- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> >
?
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From matjamison at aol.com  Wed Apr  8 19:06:41 2009
From: matjamison at aol.com (matjamison at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 22:06:41 -0400
Subject: [RocketsNW] Obliqueflyingwing and rockets?
Message-ID: <8CB86CEF524F434-1784-15BB@webmail-me02.sysops.aol.com>

Checkout page 15
http://www.obliqueflyingwing.com/OWhistory.pdf

Case of beer or tequila to the guy that pulls it off!
-Matt
..
..
..
-------------- next part --------------
Checkout page 15
http://www.obliqueflyingwing.com/OWhistory.pdf
Case of beer or tequila to the guy that pulls it off!
-Matt
..
..
..
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219939010x1201342897/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771626%3B35379597%3Bw New Deals on Dell Netbooks - Now starting at $299

From appusher at q.com  Wed Apr  8 19:12:08 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 02:12:08 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Rolling Thunder launch annoucement -
	PLEASE READ
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W210194FEC0C821543CAF7AA6830@phx.gbl>
References: <445249.86289.qm@web39705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BLU135-W16A334977987B912ABE071A6840@phx.gbl>
	<013701c9b6c6$f00c7d60$d0257820$@com>  
	<BLU135-W210194FEC0C821543CAF7AA6830@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W9E0D3222E1C688959CCA7DC830@phx.gbl>


Bobby,

 

be careful you don't have a night raid on that propane tank that feeds the heater.

 

Cuz











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 


From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; aaronfogg at gmail.com; absworld at cet.com; daron at daronjohnson.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:42:12 -0700
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ



Sheesh, I was just ASKING. They do make life a little easier for the other half of the rocket team. I, am just fine in the tent.
 
On a ROCKETRY note. We had Val's grandson over from Gig Harbor for the week. He's 9. I got him an Estes SkyWriter so he and his uncle could biuld it.
 
Saturday we drove out to the Snell Ranch to check things out and deliver a note from Kent. Tom's great. He asked if there was anything I thought we needed done. The field looks great, the mowed areas haven't started growing yet, and the road in is fine. Told him we'll get back to him about the upcoming launch.
 
Anyway, we arrived about 10ish to 2-5 mph winds and lots of sunshine. Got my pad set up and the controller hooked up. I decided to do an alphabet ladder per Bob Y. So.....
 
We got Adam's rocket out to prep. Went through it with him and he did the rest. First flight was on an A8-3. Perfect. Adam got to be LCO for the day. :)
Next flight was on a B4-4. Again perfect. While he was on recovery I prepped my Estes Patriot for a C6-5 flight. When Adam hit the button, the rocket went to about 30' and then made a 90 degree right turn to the road. Fired the ejection charge on the ground. Pretty much buggerd. Oh well, welcome to rocketry Adam. So.... the Skywriter was due up on a C. Adam did the prep and loaded a C from the same package. Instant CATO on the pad. Blew the nozzle out the back and everything else out the top. Bummed kid. Had his first success and failure within 20 min. Estes has been notified as well as NAR.
 
So just to see.... we took the third motor of the pack and put it in the ground for a test firing so we wouldn't use it in a rocket. You got it, perfect burn and ejection. Go figure.
 
THE REST OF THE FLIGHTS :
RedMax on B6-4
Goblin clone on D12-5
Baby Fat ( .75 downscale of FatBoy) on A3-4t
FatMax on D12-5
Cosmodrome Nike Smoke on G76g-M Green hobby motor. First time I've flown one of these.
WOW! Gone like a shot to about 2000'.
Last was my Patriot 2.6 sratch build on a G54-m Nice flight and recovery.
 
Packed up and went to the Sunflower Cafe for lunch. Great people and food.
 
 
Mark

 



From: absworld at cet.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:49:50 -0700








Say it ain?t so.
Mark (or is it Mary) Lyons contemplating a wimp trailer.
 
Horror of horrors.
I only bring mine under extreme duress and NEVER enjoy it or derive any pleasure or comfort, just gobs of guilt.
Next, you?ll be sleeping late and I?ll have to make my own early morning coffee.
 
Oh, that reminds me, I?d better check my propane tank and get the battery topped off J
 
bob
 


From: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com [mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 5:19 AM
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
 
DANGIT!! ;0)
 



Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 18:48:41 -0700
From: nar62887 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com




Sold it for $1500 to our Emergency Management Director, who in turn went to Medford, OR with it.  Worked very well!

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 7:58 PM

So...where'd the "short" one go?
 



Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 18:00:35 -0700
From: nar62887 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com




Ah, rocket addicts.  Gotta love 'em!!!  I just purchased a new 34 foot class A RV just so I could attend BMR launches in comfort.  (At least that's what I told my wife.  She gave me "the look" if you know what I mean.)

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 2:22 PM

I come from Cashmere. Have Tent Will Travel. :)
 



From: wtmcassandra at gmail.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:15:55 -0700

Ah.  But if people can't show up to launches because the hotel is full, then we are in a similar boat.  It's definitely something to study on.   

 

Could folks who come from a distance chime in and express a preference?  I mean those who normally need the hotel. 

 

I guess the good news is that if we change it, at least we are giving three months' notice.

 

Or, we could just suck it up.  Easy for me to say since I am no more qualified to go up on the next shuttle than to serve as a launch officer and help with the manning shortfall.

 

Sherrill

 


On Apr 3, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Tim Quigg wrote:

 





We could, but consider this...

 

We've already changed the May launch to facilitate training on my part.  We've also cancelled/rescheduled three launch dates already this year and we haven't gotten a single rocket in the air so far!  I'm afraid if we keep messing around with our published launch schedule, pretty soon we won't have anyone showing up at our launches because BMR launches are too "unreliable" to make plans ahead of time.  

 

See the problem?

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, wtmcassandra <wtmcassandra at gmail.com> wrote:


From: wtmcassandra <wtmcassandra at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 11:59 AM


Could the BoD consider changing the September 09 launch date to make  
life easier for all?

Sherrill

On Apr 3, 2009, at 11:44 AM, bluemountainrocketeers at yahoo.com wrote:

>
> I appreciate the offer Dave, but unless you have your motel room
> already reserved for Rolling Thunder now, I doubt there will be any
> room at the Blue Mountain Motel available for you.
>
> We scheduled Rolling Thunder this year for the same weekend as last
> year.  Unfortunately, last year was a leap year.  The Columbia County
> Fair is always held the first weekend after labor day, which is the
> first Monday in September.  Because it was a leap year last year, it
> worked out.  This year, we got nailed.  So next year we will schedule
> Rolling Thunder for the THIRD weekend in September to avoid any
> problems......
>
> On Apr 3, 11:07 am, "Davis, David A" <David.A.Da... at boeing.com> wrote:
>> I'm in if you need me.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tim Quigg [mailto:nar62... at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:05 AM
>> To: The Blue Mountain Rocketeers
>> Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
>>
>> Sounds like we will only need someone to oversee the launch on  
>> Friday, as that's the only time they will need me at the  
>> fairgrounds.  So, this may still work out okay.  I usually take  
>> stuff out and set up Thursday afternoon after I get off work.  Can  
>> still do that.  What we will need is someone to act as LD, RSO's  
>> and LCO's on Friday.  It looks like I'll be available on site  
>> Saturday and Sunday.
>>
>> Anyone want to take a crack at Launch Director on Friday from 9:00  
>> a.m. to  6:00 p.m.?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Apr 3, 11:00 am, Tim Quigg <nar62... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> For those of you who are planning on attending Rolling Thunder in
>>> September, I have just learned that the Columbia County Fair is  
>>> going
>>> to be the SAME weekend as Rolling Thunder.  In other words, unless  
>>> you
>>> have a motel room reserved for that weekend, you are out of luck.  I
>>> will probably also be unable to attend the launch, as I have
>>> committments with the Sheriff's Office and 9-1-1 Public Education to
>>> take care of.  I may be able to drop by from time to time to see how
>>> things are going, but that's all.  So, we are going to need
>>> volunteers.... lots of volunteers within BMR to step up to the plate
>>> to set up, oversee the launch and run it.
>>
>>> Tim Quigg
>>> Section Advisor
>>> BMR # 615- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> >





 





</html
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-------------- next part --------------
Bobby,
?
be careful you don't have a night raid on that propane tank that feeds the heater.
?
Cuz
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; aaronfogg at gmail.com; absworld at cet.com; daron at daronjohnson.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:42:12 -0700
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
Sheesh, I was just ASKING. They do make life a little easier for the other half of the rocket team. I, am just fine in the tent.
?
On a ROCKETRY note. We had Val's grandson over from Gig Harbor for?the week. He's 9.?I got him an Estes SkyWriter so he and his uncle could biuld it.
?
Saturday we drove out to the Snell Ranch to check things out and deliver a note from Kent. Tom's great. He asked if there was anything I thought we needed done. The field looks great, the mowed areas haven't started growing yet, and the road in is fine. Told him we'll get back to him about the upcoming launch.
?
Anyway, we arrived about 10ish to 2-5 mph winds and?lots of sunshine. Got my pad set up and the controller hooked up. I decided to do an alphabet ladder per Bob Y. So.....
?
We got Adam's rocket out to prep. Went through it with him and he did the rest. First flight was on an A8-3. Perfect. Adam got to be LCO for the day. :)
Next flight was on a B4-4. Again perfect. While he was on recovery I prepped my Estes Patriot for a C6-5 flight. When Adam hit the button, the rocket went to about 30' and then made a?90 degree right turn?to the road. Fired the ejection charge on the ground. Pretty much buggerd. Oh well, welcome to rocketry?Adam. So.... the Skywriter was due up on a C. Adam did the prep and loaded a C from the same package. Instant CATO on the pad. Blew the nozzle out the back and everything else out the top. Bummed kid. Had his first success and failure within 20 min. Estes has been notified as well as NAR.
?
So just to see.... we took the third motor of the pack and put it in the ground for a test firing so we wouldn't use it in a rocket. You got it, perfect burn and ejection. Go figure.
?
THE REST OF THE FLIGHTS :
RedMax on B6-4
Goblin clone on D12-5
Baby Fat ( .75 downscale of FatBoy) on A3-4t
FatMax on D12-5
Cosmodrome Nike Smoke on G76g-M Green hobby motor. First time I've flown one of these.
WOW! Gone like a shot to about 2000'.
Last was my Patriot 2.6 sratch build on a G54-m Nice flight and recovery.
?
Packed up and went to the Sunflower Cafe for lunch. Great people and food.
?
?
Mark
?
From: absworld at cet.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:49:50 -0700
Say it ain?t so.
Mark (or is it Mary) Lyons contemplating a wimp trailer.
?
Horror of horrors.
I only bring mine under extreme duress and NEVER enjoy it or derive any pleasure or comfort, just gobs of guilt.
Next, you?ll be sleeping late and I?ll have to make my own early morning coffee.
?
Oh, that reminds me, I?d better check my propane tank and get the battery topped off
J
?
bob
?
From:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com [mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of
Mark Lyons
Sent:
Monday, April 06, 2009 5:19 AM
To:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject:
RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
?
DANGIT!! ;0)
?
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 18:48:41 -0700
From: mailto:nar62887 at yahoo.com nar62887 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Sold it for $1500 to our Emergency Management Director, who in turn went to Medford, OR with it.? Worked very well!
--- On
Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Lyons
< mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
wrote:
From: Mark Lyons < mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 7:58 PM
So...where'd the "short" one go?
?
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 18:00:35 -0700
From: mailto:nar62887 at yahoo.com nar62887 at yahoo.com
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Ah, rocket addicts.? Gotta love 'em!!!? I just purchased a new 34 foot class A RV just so I could attend BMR launches in comfort.? (At least that's what I told my wife.? She gave me "the look" if you know what I mean.)
--- On
Fri, 4/3/09, Mark Lyons
< mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
wrote:
From: Mark Lyons < mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 2:22 PM
I come from Cashmere. Have Tent Will Travel. :)
?
From: wtmcassandra at gmail.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:15:55 -0700
Ah. ?But if people can't show up to launches because the hotel is full, then we are in a similar boat. ?It's definitely something to study on. ?
?
Could folks who come from a distance chime in and express a preference? ?I mean those who normally need the hotel.?
?
I guess the good news is that if we change it, at least we are giving three months' notice.
?
Or, we could just suck it up. ?Easy for me to say since I am no more qualified to go up on the next shuttle than to serve as a launch officer and help with the manning shortfall.
?
Sherrill
?
On Apr 3, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Tim Quigg wrote:
?
We could, but consider this...
?
We've already changed the May launch to facilitate training on my part.? We've also cancelled/rescheduled three launch dates already this year and we haven't gotten a single rocket in the air so far!? I'm afraid if we keep messing around with our published launch schedule, pretty soon we won't have anyone showing up at our launches because BMR launches are too "unreliable" to make plans ahead of time.?
?
See the problem?
--- On
Fri, 4/3/09, wtmcassandra
< http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wtmcassandra at gmail.com wtmcassandra at gmail.com
>
wrote:
From: wtmcassandra < http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wtmcassandra at gmail.com wtmcassandra at gmail.com
>
Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
To: http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 11:59 AM
Could the BoD consider changing the September 09 launch date to make?
life easier for all?
Sherrill
On Apr 3, 2009, at 11:44 AM, http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bluemountainrocketeers at yahoo.com bluemountainrocketeers at yahoo.com
wrote:
>
> I appreciate the offer Dave, but unless you have your motel room
> already reserved for Rolling Thunder now, I doubt there will be any
> room at the Blue Mountain Motel available for you.
>
> We scheduled Rolling Thunder this year for the same weekend as last
> year.? Unfortunately, last year was a leap year.? The Columbia County
> Fair is always held the first weekend after labor day, which is the
> first Monday in September.? Because it was a leap year last year, it
> worked out.? This year, we got nailed.? So next year we will schedule
> Rolling Thunder for the THIRD weekend in September to avoid any
> problems......
>
> On Apr 3, 11:07 am, "Davis, David A" < http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=David.A.Da... at boeing.com David.A.Da... at boeing.com
> wrote:
>> I'm in if you need me.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tim Quigg [mailto: http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nar62... at yahoo.com nar62... at yahoo.com
]
>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:05 AM
>> To: The Blue Mountain Rocketeers
>> Subject: Re: Rolling Thunder launch annoucement - PLEASE READ
>>
>> Sounds like we will only need someone to oversee the launch on?
>> Friday, as that's the only time they will need me at the?
>> fairgrounds.? So, this may still work out okay.? I usually take?
>> stuff out and set up Thursday afternoon after I get off work.? Can?
>> still do that.? What we will need is someone to act as LD, RSO's?
>> and LCO's on Friday.? It looks like I'll be available on site?
>> Saturday and Sunday.
>>
>> Anyone want to take a crack at Launch Director on Friday from 9:00?
>> a.m. to? 6:00 p.m.?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Apr 3, 11:00 am, Tim Quigg < http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nar62... at yahoo.com nar62... at yahoo.com
> wrote:
>>> For those of you who are planning on attending Rolling Thunder in
>>> September, I have just learned that the Columbia County Fair is?
>>> going
>>> to be the SAME weekend as Rolling Thunder.? In other words, unless?
>>> you
>>> have a motel room reserved for that weekend, you are out of luck.? I
>>> will probably also be unable to attend the launch, as I have
>>> committments with the Sheriff's Office and 9-1-1 Public Education to
>>> take care of.? I may be able to drop by from time to time to see how
>>> things are going, but that's all.? So, we are going to need
>>> volunteers.... lots of volunteers within BMR to step up to the plate
>>> to set up, oversee the launch and run it.
>>
>>> Tim Quigg
>>> Section Advisor
>>> BMR # 615- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> >
?
</html
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?
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From appusher at q.com  Wed Apr  8 19:56:04 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 02:56:04 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] (AD) Model motors anyone?
Message-ID: <BLU145-W8F8CFCB608BF93B29C47ADC830@phx.gbl>



Hi Fliers,

 

we have had a number of folks request model motors.  So we are going to be ordering on Monday.  If you have planned flights, send us your list so we can add whatever is not in stock.

 

High power order is going in right after April Mansfield launch sponsored by WAC.  Best to get your flights planned and motors secured before the launch.  Pre-pay gets an additional discount and PayPals are charged an additional 3%.  One way or the other, inventory is first come first serve if it's not pre-paid prior to the launch.

 

You OROC folks should consider letting us know what you want to fly.  Inventory will be picked over pretty good by June at Brothers.  We are looking forward to getting together with all of you so we can put a name with a face.

I ordering up some better weather than the last time we came down.

 

Clear skies, calm winds, and a launch pad landing,

 

Bill at PSP  









 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
-------------- next part --------------
Hi Fliers,
?
we have had a number of folks request model motors.? So we are going to be ordering on Monday.? If you have planned flights, send us your list so we can add whatever is not in stock.
?
High power order is going in right after April Mansfield launch sponsored by WAC.? Best to get your flights planned and motors secured before the launch.? Pre-pay gets an additional discount and PayPals are charged an additional 3%.? One way or the other, inventory is first come first serve if it's not pre-paid prior to the launch.
?
You OROC folks should consider letting us?know what you want to fly.? Inventory will be picked over pretty good by June at Brothers.? We are looking forward to getting together with all of you so we can put?a name with a face.
I ordering up some better weather than the last time we came down.
?
Clear skies, calm winds, and a?launch?pad landing,
?
mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
?
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Wed Apr  8 20:48:47 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 20:48:47 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Obliqueflyingwing and rockets?
In-Reply-To: <8CB86CEF524F434-1784-15BB@webmail-me02.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CB86CEF524F434-1784-15BB@webmail-me02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <002301c9b8c6$176525f0$462f71d0$@net>

A case of Tequila to Vern Estes...al la scissor wing transport!

http://www.bellevillehobby.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=253

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of matjamison at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 7:07 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Obliqueflyingwing and rockets?

Checkout page 15
http://www.obliqueflyingwing.com/OWhistory.pdf

Case of beer or tequila to the guy that pulls it off!
-Matt
..
..
..


From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Thu Apr  9 08:28:56 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 08:28:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Smei-OT: odd-roc anyone?
Message-ID: <49DE1438.3010007@hawkfeather.com>

http://www.prweb.com/releases/beverage/launch/prweb2309814.htm

Dnagabit, not available in time for FITS :(

Andrew.

From rcdm at outlawnet.com  Thu Apr  9 10:33:44 2009
From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 10:33:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Smei-OT: odd-roc anyone?
References: <49DE1438.3010007@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <9B10D68B564B47CDA35387BA533AABF2@DANE>

Too bad they put the fins on the wrong end. Would make a perfect water rocket. Guess their marketing dept. wasn't thinking along those lines. ;^)

Rod M.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Andrew MacMillen 
  To: NorthWest Rocketry 
  Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:28 AM
  Subject: [RocketsNW] Smei-OT: odd-roc anyone?


  http://www.prweb.com/releases/beverage/launch/prweb2309814.htm

  Dnagabit, not available in time for FITS :(

  Andrew.
  _______________________________________________
  Rockets mailing list
  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
    
-------------- next part --------------
Too bad they put the fins on the wrong end. Would make a perfect water rocket. Guess their marketing dept. wasn't thinking along those lines. ;^)
?
Rod M.
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:andrewm at hawkfeather.com Andrew MacMillen
To:
mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com NorthWest Rocketry
Sent:
Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:28 AM
Subject:
[RocketsNW] Smei-OT: odd-roc anyone?
http://www.prweb.com/releases/beverage/launch/prweb2309814.htm http://www.prweb.com/releases/beverage/launch/prweb2309814.htm
Dnagabit, not available in time for FITS :(
Andrew.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
?

From sb at berfield.com  Thu Apr  9 10:40:08 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 10:40:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Obliqueflyingwing and rockets?
In-Reply-To: <8CB86CEF524F434-1784-15BB@webmail-me02.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CB86CEF524F434-1784-15BB@webmail-me02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <000601c9b93a$3aa121d0$afe36570$@com>

That's pretty cool. I have seen sketches of those before, but never the
detail in the article. Thanks for posting it.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of matjamison at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 7:07 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Obliqueflyingwing and rockets?

Checkout page 15
http://www.obliqueflyingwing.com/OWhistory.pdf

Case of beer or tequila to the guy that pulls it off!
-Matt
..
..
..


From jhadv at pacifier.com  Thu Apr  9 12:03:39 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:03:39 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1239303603.30302.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090409120145.00c44cf0@mail.iinet.com>

Or passover or whatever.


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Thu Apr  9 13:21:23 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 13:21:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090409120145.00c44cf0@mail.iinet.com>
References: <mailman.3.1239303603.30302.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090409120145.00c44cf0@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <3BB50C44B303480792CADB3F9346F485@Mobile2>

Happy non specified non holiday day to everyone. (Disregard if you do not
celebrate.) 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:04 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE

Or passover or whatever.

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From bphlat234 at comcast.net  Thu Apr  9 15:06:11 2009
From: bphlat234 at comcast.net (Gary Harris)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:06:11 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090407113948.00c4c8a8@mail.iinet.com>
References: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com><3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair><6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090407113948.00c4c8a8@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <95483928877B48DAB5C7F09339D86C8E@Garylaptop>

Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite 
ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350.  It 
started up instantly like an Estes motor.

Gary Harris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS


> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote:  "...there's likely no basis for
> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device.  Igniters
> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were 
> themselves
> considered unregulated."
>
> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with
> unregulated motors..."  The only problem being that said devices are, in
> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be just
> barely functional.  People of this opinion would point to all the chuffing
> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch.  Such devices (total
> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor
> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated.  I certainly don't
> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the
> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire
> would produce more heat.  We don't regulate books of matches do we?
> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6
> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas products
> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well
> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec for
> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant
> characteristics).  That's an igniter and I think you're still going to 
> need
> a permit for those.  A NASA Standard would be an example of such an 
> igniter
> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as
> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave).  I
> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate
> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the
> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 15:38:52 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:38:52 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
References: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com><3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair><6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><5.2.0.9.2.20090407113948.00c4c8a8@mail.iinet.com>
	<95483928877B48DAB5C7F09339D86C8E@Garylaptop>
Message-ID: <004801c9b963$f6452fc0$0301a8c0@LaptopKrausert>

I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful 
adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT, 
and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head. 
When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding 
the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have 
been fine alone?

Curious.

Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS


> Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite
> ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350.  It
> started up instantly like an Estes motor.
>
> Gary Harris
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
>
>> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote:  "...there's likely no basis for
>> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device. 
>> Igniters
>> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were
>> themselves
>> considered unregulated."
>>
>> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with
>> unregulated motors..."  The only problem being that said devices are, in
>> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be 
>> just
>> barely functional.  People of this opinion would point to all the 
>> chuffing
>> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch.  Such devices (total
>> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor
>> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated.  I certainly don't
>> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the
>> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire
>> would produce more heat.  We don't regulate books of matches do we?
>> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6
>> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas 
>> products
>> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well
>> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec 
>> for
>> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant
>> characteristics).  That's an igniter and I think you're still going to
>> need
>> a permit for those.  A NASA Standard would be an example of such an
>> igniter
>> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
>> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
>> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as
>> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
>> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave).  I
>> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate
>> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the
>> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Thu Apr  9 17:08:17 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:08:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <004801c9b963$f6452fc0$0301a8c0@LaptopKrausert>
References: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com><3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair><6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><5.2.0.9.2.20090407113948.00c4c8a8@mail.iinet.com><95483928877B48DAB5C7F09339D86C8E@Garylaptop>
	<004801c9b963$f6452fc0$0301a8c0@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <3AA5E054792341DBA95CA9310B89E606@Mobile2>

One word...

Copper oxide thermite.

Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well.

Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS

I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful
adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT,
and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head. 
When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding
the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have
been fine alone?

Curious.

Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS


> Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite
> ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350.  It
> started up instantly like an Estes motor.
>
> Gary Harris
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
>
>> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote:  "...there's likely no basis for
>> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device. 
>> Igniters
>> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were
>> themselves
>> considered unregulated."
>>
>> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with
>> unregulated motors..."  The only problem being that said devices are, in
>> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be 
>> just
>> barely functional.  People of this opinion would point to all the 
>> chuffing
>> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch.  Such devices (total
>> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor
>> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated.  I certainly don't
>> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the
>> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire
>> would produce more heat.  We don't regulate books of matches do we?
>> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6
>> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas 
>> products
>> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well
>> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec 
>> for
>> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant
>> characteristics).  That's an igniter and I think you're still going to
>> need
>> a permit for those.  A NASA Standard would be an example of such an
>> igniter
>> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
>> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
>> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as
>> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
>> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave).  I
>> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate
>> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the
>> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From carl20320 at msn.com  Thu Apr  9 17:14:29 2009
From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:14:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <3AA5E054792341DBA95CA9310B89E606@Mobile2>
References: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com><3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair><6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><5.2.0.9.2.20090407113948.00c4c8a8@mail.iinet.com><95483928877B48DAB5C7F09339D86C8E@Garylaptop>
	<004801c9b963$f6452fc0$0301a8c0@LaptopKrausert> 
	<3AA5E054792341DBA95CA9310B89E606@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <COL120-W4FE9268B273F100A45ECFEA800@phx.gbl>


I once saw a link to a site that had recommended amount of CuO thermite to use with different size motors.  It was a dead link.  Does anyone know of a similiar site that can provide a basis for the amount to use?

 

Carl
 
> From: scott at scottsrockets.com
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; bphlat234 at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com; jhadv at pacifier.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:08:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> One word...
> 
> Copper oxide thermite.
> 
> Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well.
> 
> Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind. 
> 
> 
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
> To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful
> adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT,
> and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head. 
> When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding
> the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have
> been fine alone?
> 
> Curious.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> 
> > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite
> > ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350. It
> > started up instantly like an Estes motor.
> >
> > Gary Harris
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> >
> >
> >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis for
> >> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device. 
> >> Igniters
> >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were
> >> themselves
> >> considered unregulated."
> >>
> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with
> >> unregulated motors..." The only problem being that said devices are, in
> >> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be 
> >> just
> >> barely functional. People of this opinion would point to all the 
> >> chuffing
> >> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch. Such devices (total
> >> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor
> >> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated. I certainly don't
> >> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the
> >> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire
> >> would produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we?
> >> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6
> >> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas 
> >> products
> >> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well
> >> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec 
> >> for
> >> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant
> >> characteristics). That's an igniter and I think you're still going to
> >> need
> >> a permit for those. A NASA Standard would be an example of such an
> >> igniter
> >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
> >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
> >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as
> >> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
> >> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave). I
> >> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate
> >> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the
> >> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
I?once saw a link to a site that had recommended amount of CuO thermite to use with different size motors.? It was a dead link.? Does anyone know of a similiar site that can provide a basis for the amount to use?
?
Carl
?
> From: scott at scottsrockets.com
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; bphlat234 at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com; jhadv at pacifier.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:08:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
> One word...
>
> Copper oxide thermite.
>
> Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well.
>
> Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind.
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
> To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
> I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful
> adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT,
> and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head.
> When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding
> the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have
> been fine alone?
>
> Curious.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
>
> > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite
> > ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350. It
> > started up instantly like an Estes motor.
> >
> > Gary Harris
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> >
> >
> >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis for
> >> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device.
> >> Igniters
> >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were
> >> themselves
> >> considered unregulated."
> >>
> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with
> >> unregulated motors..." The only problem being that said devices are, in
> >> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be
> >> just
> >> barely functional. People of this opinion would point to all the
> >> chuffing
> >> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch. Such devices (total
> >> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor
> >> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated. I certainly don't
> >> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the
> >> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire
> >> would produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we?
> >> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6
> >> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas
> >> products
> >> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well
> >> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec
> >> for
> >> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant
> >> characteristics). That's an igniter and I think you're still going to
> >> need
> >> a permit for those. A NASA Standard would be an example of such an
> >> igniter
> >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
> >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
> >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as
> >> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
> >> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave). I
> >> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate
> >> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the
> >> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Apr  9 17:12:21 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:12:21 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
Message-ID: <c69.476dfdce.370fe8e5@aol.com>

Except in high humidity it will not initiate unless you replace a small 
portion of al with mg.  Myself and the late Alex M. had the same problem at  a
cold, damp, spring Brothers launch.

Mike F.


In a message dated 4/9/2009 5:09:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
scott at scottsrockets.com writes:

One  word...

Copper oxide thermite.

Wait, that's three words. Cheap,  easy, safe, and works VERY well.

Crap, that's seven words, unless these  words count, then....never mind.


Scott T.  Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com


-----Original Message-----
From:  rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On  Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
To:  Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW]  IGNITERS

I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more  successful
adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a  grain of
BT,
and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the  ignitor head.
When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My  question is, is
adding
the BT sliver really helping, or would the large  ignitor with pyrogen have
been fine  alone?

Curious.

Cheers,
Robert


----- Original  Message -----
From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
To:  <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich"  <jhadv at pacifier.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06  PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS


> Paul gave me one of  his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite
> ignitors mentioned  below last october to use in a 11-year old J350.  It
> started up  instantly like an Estes motor.
>
> Gary Harris
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Bogdanich"  <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>  Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW]  IGNITERS
>
>
>> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you  wrote:  "...there's likely no basis for
>> regulating an ignitor  which is used with a non-explosive device.
>> Igniters
>>  packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were
>>  themselves
>> considered unregulated."
>>
>> I  think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged
with
>> unregulated motors..."  The only problem being that said  devices are, in
>> the opinion of some, very low performance devices  so much so as to be
>> just
>> barely functional.   People of this opinion would point to all the
>>  chuffing
>> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch.   Such devices (total
>> calorific output of less than .5 kcal)  probably do qualify as "motor
>> starters" and may very well be able  to be unregulated.  I certainly
don't
>> see why they should be  regulated as some safety match heads with the
>> pyrogen scraped off,  dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge
wire
>> would produce  more heat.  We don't regulate books of matches do we?
>> I  myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between
6
>> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough  gas
>> products
>> to put the motor interior at >= 200  psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well
>> within 100 ms, and achieve  a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec
>> for
>> a  38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and
propellant
>> characteristics).  That's an igniter and I think  you're still going to
>> need
>> a permit for those.  A  NASA Standard would be an example of such an
>> igniter
>>  albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
>> Whether or not a  thermite (where such term includes thermate and
>> thermalite) based  igniters should be restricted is an open question as
>> those lie  between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
>>  generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave).   I
>> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite,
thermate
>> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are  included in the
>> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP  was not.
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing  list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing  list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



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-------------- next part --------------
Except in high humidity it will not initiate unless you replace a small portion of al with mg.? Myself and the late Alex M. had the same problem at a cold, damp, spring Brothers launch.
?
Mike F.
?
In a message dated 4/9/2009 5:09:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scott at scottsrockets.com writes:
One word...
Copper oxide thermite.
Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well.
Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind.
Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful
adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT,
and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head.
When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding
the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have
been fine alone?
Curious.
Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite
> ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350.? It
> started up instantly like an Estes motor.
>
> Gary Harris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
>
>> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote:? "...there's likely no basis for
>> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device.
>> Igniters
>> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were
>> themselves
>> considered unregulated."
>>
>> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with
>> unregulated motors..."? The only problem being that said devices are, in
>> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be
>> just
>> barely functional.? People of this opinion would point to all the
>> chuffing
>> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch.? Such devices (total
>> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor
>> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated.? I certainly don't
>> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the
>> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire
>> would produce more heat.? We don't regulate books of matches do we?
>> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6
>> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas
>> products
>> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well
>> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec
>> for
>> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant
>> characteristics).? That's an igniter and I think you're still going to
>> need
>> a permit for those.? A NASA Standard would be an example of such an
>> igniter
>> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
>> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
>> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as
>> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
>> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave).? I
>> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate
>> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the
>> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
?
http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220635155x1201407495/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771973%3B35379628%3Bw New Deals on Dell Netbooks - Now starting at $299

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Thu Apr  9 20:00:53 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:00:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <COL120-W4FE9268B273F100A45ECFEA800@phx.gbl>
References: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com><3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair><6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><5.2.0.9.2.20090407113948.00c4c8a8@mail.iinet.com><95483928877B48DAB5C7F09339D86C8E@Garylaptop>	<004801c9b963$f6452fc0$0301a8c0@LaptopKrausert>
	<3AA5E054792341DBA95CA9310B89E606@Mobile2>
	<COL120-W4FE9268B273F100A45ECFEA800@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <018401c9b988$90aac010$b2004030$@net>

Carl,

The formula I was given by Wedge was 1 gram of thermite per 1000 N-s of
motor. It lit the 2nd stage of my M-to-M instantly.  Unfortunately, I had
forgotten to reprogram the timer which included about 1s for the motor to
come up to pressure.  Live and learn.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Carl Degner
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 5:14 PM
To: scott at scottsrockets.com; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS


I once saw a link to a site that had recommended amount of CuO thermite to
use with different size motors.  It was a dead link.  Does anyone know of a
similiar site that can provide a basis for the amount to use?

 

Carl
 
> From: scott at scottsrockets.com
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; bphlat234 at comcast.net; 
> rockets at rocketsnw.com; jhadv at pacifier.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:08:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> One word...
> 
> Copper oxide thermite.
> 
> Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well.
> 
> Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind. 
> 
> 
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
> To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more 
> successful adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply 
> take a grain of BT, and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it
to the ignitor head.
> When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is 
> adding the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with 
> pyrogen have been fine alone?
> 
> Curious.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> 
> > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing 
> > thermite ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year 
> > old J350. It started up instantly like an Estes motor.
> >
> > Gary Harris
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> >
> >
> >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis 
> >> for regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device.
> >> Igniters
> >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were 
> >> themselves considered unregulated."
> >>
> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, 
> >> "packaged with unregulated motors..." The only problem being that 
> >> said devices are, in the opinion of some, very low performance 
> >> devices so much so as to be just barely functional. People of this 
> >> opinion would point to all the chuffing and recycling one witnesses 
> >> at almost any launch. Such devices (total calorific output of less 
> >> than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor starters" and may very 
> >> well be able to be unregulated. I certainly don't see why they 
> >> should be regulated as some safety match heads with the pyrogen 
> >> scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire 
> >> would produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we?
> >> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add 
> >> between 6 and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate 
> >> enough gas products to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 
> >> 400 psi, totally burn well within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate 
> >> of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec for a 38mm motor (this last metric 
> >> can change with motor size and propellant characteristics). That's 
> >> an igniter and I think you're still going to need a permit for 
> >> those. A NASA Standard would be an example of such an igniter 
> >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
> >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
> >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question 
> >> as those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned 
> >> (they generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock 
> >> wave). I suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that 
> >> thermite, thermate and thermalite are definitely regulated as they 
> >> are included in the definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was
not.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Thu Apr  9 20:23:46 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:23:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <018401c9b988$90aac010$b2004030$@net>
References: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com><3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair><6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><5.2.0.9.2.20090407113948.00c4c8a8@mail.iinet.com><95483928877B48DAB5C7F09339D86C8E@Garylaptop>	<004801c9b963$f6452fc0$0301a8c0@LaptopKrausert>
	<3AA5E054792341DBA95CA9310B89E606@Mobile2>
	<COL120-W4FE9268B273F100A45ECFEA800@phx.gbl>
	<018401c9b988$90aac010$b2004030$@net>
Message-ID: <BB72423A6F264DB8A29A5BE0ACBC2BC4@Mobile2>

We had a chat about this somewhere, we figured core volume would be a better
way to determine amount. Can't remember if we ever decided what that amount
per core value was. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] 
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:01 PM
To: 'Carl Degner'; scott at scottsrockets.com; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS

Carl,

The formula I was given by Wedge was 1 gram of thermite per 1000 N-s of
motor. It lit the 2nd stage of my M-to-M instantly.  Unfortunately, I had
forgotten to reprogram the timer which included about 1s for the motor to
come up to pressure.  Live and learn.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Carl Degner
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 5:14 PM
To: scott at scottsrockets.com; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS


I once saw a link to a site that had recommended amount of CuO thermite to
use with different size motors.  It was a dead link.  Does anyone know of a
similiar site that can provide a basis for the amount to use?

 

Carl
 
> From: scott at scottsrockets.com
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; bphlat234 at comcast.net; 
> rockets at rocketsnw.com; jhadv at pacifier.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:08:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> One word...
> 
> Copper oxide thermite.
> 
> Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well.
> 
> Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind. 
> 
> 
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
> To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more 
> successful adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply 
> take a grain of BT, and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure 
> it
to the ignitor head.
> When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is 
> adding the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with 
> pyrogen have been fine alone?
> 
> Curious.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> 
> > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing 
> > thermite ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year 
> > old J350. It started up instantly like an Estes motor.
> >
> > Gary Harris
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> >
> >
> >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis 
> >> for regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device.
> >> Igniters
> >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were 
> >> themselves considered unregulated."
> >>
> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, 
> >> "packaged with unregulated motors..." The only problem being that 
> >> said devices are, in the opinion of some, very low performance 
> >> devices so much so as to be just barely functional. People of this 
> >> opinion would point to all the chuffing and recycling one witnesses 
> >> at almost any launch. Such devices (total calorific output of less 
> >> than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor starters" and may very 
> >> well be able to be unregulated. I certainly don't see why they 
> >> should be regulated as some safety match heads with the pyrogen 
> >> scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire 
> >> would produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we?
> >> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add 
> >> between 6 and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate 
> >> enough gas products to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 
> >> 400 psi, totally burn well within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate 
> >> of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec for a 38mm motor (this last metric 
> >> can change with motor size and propellant characteristics). That's 
> >> an igniter and I think you're still going to need a permit for 
> >> those. A NASA Standard would be an example of such an igniter 
> >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
> >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
> >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question 
> >> as those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned 
> >> (they generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock 
> >> wave). I suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that 
> >> thermite, thermate and thermalite are definitely regulated as they 
> >> are included in the definitions section of the statute whereas APCP 
> >> was
not.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 



From sb at berfield.com  Thu Apr  9 21:04:38 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 04:04:38 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
Message-ID: <W3608325300227351239336278@webmail26>

I've done some experimenting wth Cu thermite and have had a hard time getting it to light. I also finf the dry powder mix awkward to deal with. Too bad it is even harder to light if you use a binder.

I have had really good results using a strips of propellant in igniters. Do a standard setup with shooting wire and wrap two strips of blue thunder with the nichrome - 4 or 5 wraps. Then dip in dark flash to prime and then a nice sparky pyrogen.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 05:12 PM
To: scott at scottsrockets.com, lawndart.robert at gmail.com, bphlat234 at comcast.net,
rockets at rocketsnw.com, jhadv at pacifier.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS

Except in high humidity it will not initiate unless you replace a small portion of al with mg. Myself and the late Alex M. had the same problem at a cold, damp, spring Brothers launch. Mike F. In a message dated 4/9/2009 5:09:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scott at scottsrockets.com writes: One word... Copper oxide thermite. Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well. Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT, and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head. When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have been fine alone? Curious. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Harris" To: ; "Paul Bogdanich" Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite > ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350. It > started up instantly like an Estes motor. > > Gary Harris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Bogdanich" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS > > >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis for >> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device. >> Igniters >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were >> themselves >> considered unregulated." >> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with >> unregulated motors..." The only problem being that said devices are, in >> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be >> just >> barely functional. People of this opinion would point to all the >> chuffing >> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch. Such devices (total >> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor >> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated. I certainly don't >> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the >> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire >> would produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we? >> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6 >> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas >> products >> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well >> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec >> for >> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant >> characteristics). That's an igniter and I think you're still going to >> need >> a permit for those. A NASA Standard would be an example of such an >> igniter >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm. >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as >> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they >> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave). I >> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate >> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the >> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************New Deals on Dell Netbooks ??? Now starting at $299 (A HREF=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220635155x1201407495/aol?redir=http:%2F %2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771973%3B35379628%3Bw)

-------------- next part --------------
I've done some experimenting wth Cu thermite and have had a hard time getting it to light. I also finf the dry powder mix awkward to deal with. Too bad it is even harder to light if you use a binder.
?
I have had really good results using a strips of propellant in igniters. Do a standard setup with shooting wire and wrap two strips of blue thunder with the nichrome - 4 or 5 wraps. Then dip in dark flash to prime and then a nice sparky pyrogen.
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From:
Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com]
Sent:
Thursday, April 9, 2009 05:12 PM
To:
scott at scottsrockets.com, lawndart.robert at gmail.com, bphlat234 at comcast.net,
rockets at rocketsnw.com, jhadv at pacifier.com
Subject:
Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
Except in high humidity it will not initiate unless you replace a small portion of al with mg. Myself and the late Alex M. had the same problem at a cold, damp, spring Brothers launch. Mike F. In a message dated 4/9/2009 5:09:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scott at scottsrockets.com writes: One word... Copper oxide thermite. Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well. Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT, and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head. When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have been fine alone? Curious. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Harris"
To:
; "Paul Bogdanich"
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite > ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350. It > started up instantly like an Estes motor. > > Gary Harris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Bogdanich"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS > > >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis for >> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device. >> Igniters >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were >> themselves >> considered unregulated." >> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with >> unregulated motors..." The only problem being that said devices are, in >> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be >> just >> barely functional. People of this opinion would point to all the >> chuffing >> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch. Such devices (total >> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor >> starters" and may very well be able to be unregulated. I certainly don't >> see why they should be regulated as some safety match heads with the >> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire >> would produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we? >> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add between 6 >> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate enough gas >> products >> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well >> within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec >> for >> a 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant >> characteristics). That's an igniter and I think you're still going to >> need >> a permit for those. A NASA Standard would be an example of such an >> igniter >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm. >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as >> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they >> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave). I >> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite, thermate >> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included in the >> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************New Deals on Dell Netbooks ??? Now starting at $299 (A HREF=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220635155x1201407495/aol?redir=http:%2F %2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771973%3B35379628%3Bw)

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Apr  9 22:00:30 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:00:30 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
Message-ID: <c1a.56ae564f.37102c6e@aol.com>

If you sub out a small amount of the al and replace it with fine mg you can 
 light it with an open flame.  Unlike the standard mixture which won't even 
 light with a propane torch.  Be careful though if you do this as it is  
scary sensitive.  Static could probably set it off....no kidding.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 4/9/2009 9:05:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
sb at berfield.com writes:

I've  done some experimenting wth Cu thermite and have had a hard time 
getting it to  light. I also finf the dry powder mix awkward to deal with. Too 
bad it is even  harder to light if you use a  binder.


**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26
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-------------- next part --------------
If you sub out a small amount of the al and replace it with fine mg you can light it with an open flame.? Unlike the standard mixture which won't even light with a propane torch.? Be careful though if you do this as it is scary sensitive.? Static could probably set it off....no kidding.
?
Mike F.
?
In a message dated 4/9/2009 9:05:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sb at berfield.com writes:
I've done some experimenting wth Cu thermite and have had a hard time getting it to light. I also finf the dry powder mix awkward to deal with. Too bad it is even harder to light if you use a binder.
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62" See yours in just 2 easy steps!

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Fri Apr 10 03:03:29 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:03:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Smei-OT: odd-roc anyone?
In-Reply-To: <9B10D68B564B47CDA35387BA533AABF2@DANE>
References: <49DE1438.3010007@hawkfeather.com>
	<9B10D68B564B47CDA35387BA533AABF2@DANE>
Message-ID: <5028c8f5b7323a9286f48ed647577b41.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

The fins might be removable.  Some older 2-liter pop bottles had a
hemispherical bottom attached to a plastic base.  Hot water would soften
the glue enough to permit removal of the base.  So the ZUN bottles might
yet make decent water rockets.  And they just beg for modification into
odd-rocs as is anyway.  Wonder if the fins will fit any standard BT sizes?

At any rate the marketing practically guarantees that this will become the
official energy drink of a few rocketeers.
+McG+


> Too bad they put the fins on the wrong end. Would make a perfect water
> rocket. Guess their marketing dept. wasn't thinking along those lines. ;^)
> ?
> Rod M.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> mailto:andrewm at hawkfeather.com Andrew MacMillen
> To:
> mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com NorthWest Rocketry
> Sent:
> Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:28 AM
> Subject:
> [RocketsNW] Smei-OT: odd-roc anyone?
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/beverage/launch/prweb2309814.htm
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/beverage/launch/prweb2309814.htm
> Dnagabit, not available in time for FITS :(
> Andrew.
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Fri Apr 10 03:50:11 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <W3608325300227351239336278@webmail26>
References: <W3608325300227351239336278@webmail26>
Message-ID: <5479921341b687022e7d388539e4c0f4.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Most thermites seem fairly hard to ignite.  It is, however, more an issue
of ignition temperature than minimum required joules of energy.  The
Al/MnO2 mix I used to use in fireworks was plain difficult to ignite by
the usual methods yet was professionally tested as "extremely sensitive"
to static spark.

Since oxides of most common metals are quite stable the initiating
reaction step comes from the reducing metal being transformed into a
reactive state.  Aluminum is a surface-burning metal whereas magnesium is
easily enough vaporized to be vapor-burning.  With aluminum you first have
to melt through the oxide layer on the surface of the metal particles(2000
deg C) and then have the freshly exposed metal in contact with the
oxidizer.  With magnesium you only have to create a tiny bit of vaporized
metal off the particle(1090 deg C)--it will find and react with the
oxidizer by itself.  Hence the greater ease of ignition by adding
magnesium to the mix.  However, this not only reduces the ignition
temperature but also the minimum required joules for ignition.  Good
rocket engineering keeps both values high enough that accidental ignition
is not easy.  My solution to igniting manganese thermite was a hot spark
producing pyrogen on the fuse.

Temperature counts more than total energy in igniting thermites.
+McG+


> I've done some experimenting wth Cu thermite and have had a hard time
> getting it to light. I also finf the dry powder mix awkward to deal with.
> Too bad it is even harder to light if you use a binder.
> ?
> I have had really good results using a strips of propellant in igniters.
> Do a standard setup with shooting wire and wrap two strips of blue thunder
> with the nichrome - 4 or 5 wraps. Then dip in dark flash to prime and then
> a nice sparky pyrogen.
> ?
> ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com]
> Sent:
> Thursday, April 9, 2009 05:12 PM
> To:
> scott at scottsrockets.com, lawndart.robert at gmail.com, bphlat234 at comcast.net,
> rockets at rocketsnw.com, jhadv at pacifier.com
> Subject:
> Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> Except in high humidity it will not initiate unless you replace a small
> portion of al with mg. Myself and the late Alex M. had the same problem at
> a cold, damp, spring Brothers launch. Mike F. In a message dated 4/9/2009
> 5:09:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scott at scottsrockets.com writes: One
> word... Copper oxide thermite. Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy,
> safe, and works VERY well. Crap, that's seven words, unless these words
> count, then....never mind. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com
> -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent:
> Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
> Paul Bogdanich Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS I'd like an opinion here.
> For 38mm and larger, I've been more successful adding a sliver of Blue
> Thunder to the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT, and cut a chunk out
> and use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head. When I've done this,
> all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding the BT sliver
> really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have been fine
> alone? Curious. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary
> Harris"
> To:
> ; "Paul Bogdanich"
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS >
> Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing thermite >
> ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year old J350. It >
> started up instantly like an Estes motor. > > Gary Harris > > -----
> Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Bogdanich"
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS >
>> > >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis
>> for >> regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device.
>> >> Igniters >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement
>> ignitors) were >> themselves >> considered unregulated." >> >> I think
>> you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters, "packaged with >>
>> unregulated motors..." The only problem being that said devices are, in
>> >> the opinion of some, very low performance devices so much so as to be
>> >> just >> barely functional. People of this opinion would point to all
>> the >> chuffing >> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch.
>> Such devices (total >> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably
>> do qualify as "motor >> starters" and may very well be able to be
>> unregulated. I certainly don't >> see why they should be regulated as
>> some safety match heads with the >> pyrogen scraped off, dissolved in a
>> solvent and cast around a bridge wire >> would produce more heat. We
>> don't regulate books of matches do we? >> I myself, however, would like
>> to see an "igniter" that can add between 6 >> and 10 calories per cc of
>> propellant surface, generate enough gas >> products >> to put the motor
>> interior at >= 200 psi but < 400 psi, totally burn well >> within 100
>> ms, and achieve a flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec >> for >> a
>> 38mm motor (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant
>> >> characteristics). That's an igniter and I think you're still going to
>> >> need >> a permit for those. A NASA Standard would be an example of
>> such an >> igniter >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm. >>
>> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and >>
>> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question as
>> >> those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned (they
>> >> generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock wave). I
>> >> suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that thermite,
>> thermate >> and thermalite are definitely regulated as they are included
>> in the >> definitions section of the statute whereas APCP was not. >> >>
>> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list
>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >
>> _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list >
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >
>> _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> **************New Deals on Dell Netbooks ??? Now starting at $299 (A
>> HREF=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220635155x1201407495/aol?redir=http:%2F
>> %2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771973%3B35379628%3Bw)
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Fri Apr 10 04:10:34 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 04:10:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <BB72423A6F264DB8A29A5BE0ACBC2BC4@Mobile2>
References: <6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><mailman.829.1239119921.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090407090934.00c447e0@mail.iinet.com><3DF0D121BDE641E4B8D8995B01D4430C@downstair><6E83D17116754CDCA8170C4A7B8EBFCD@Mobile2><5.2.0.9.2.20090407113948.00c4c8a8@mail.iinet.com><95483928877B48DAB5C7F09339D86C8E@Garylaptop>
	<004801c9b963$f6452fc0$0301a8c0@LaptopKrausert>
	<3AA5E054792341DBA95CA9310B89E606@Mobile2>
	<COL120-W4FE9268B273F100A45ECFEA800@phx.gbl>
	<018401c9b988$90aac010$b2004030$@net>
	<BB72423A6F264DB8A29A5BE0ACBC2BC4@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <6e6e71623d4f810ce61a3a8e8ea0ccc6.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Sutton, 6th ed., p.493:

M = (V^0.7)/2  for B-KNO3

M in grams; motor free(i.e., not filled with propellant)volume V in cubic
inches.

How that scales to copper thermite you'll have to figure out for yourself.
 Since professional practice usually involves rapid pre-pressurization of
the motor, and the accompanying graph shows data for motors with free
volumes from ten million to one thousand cubic inches, the amount of
copper thermite for hobby motors will probably be much less than the
formula indicates.  But what this shows is that it's not a linear
relationship but rather a 0.7 power function of free volume.
+McG+


> We had a chat about this somewhere, we figured core volume would be a
> better
> way to determine amount. Can't remember if we ever decided what that
> amount
> per core value was.
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:01 PM
> To: 'Carl Degner'; scott at scottsrockets.com; 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
> Carl,
>
> The formula I was given by Wedge was 1 gram of thermite per 1000 N-s of
> motor. It lit the 2nd stage of my M-to-M instantly.  Unfortunately, I had
> forgotten to reprogram the timer which included about 1s for the motor to
> come up to pressure.  Live and learn.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Carl Degner
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 5:14 PM
> To: scott at scottsrockets.com; Rockets NW list
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
>
> I once saw a link to a site that had recommended amount of CuO thermite to
> use with different size motors.  It was a dead link.  Does anyone know of
> a
> similiar site that can provide a basis for the amount to use?
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>> From: scott at scottsrockets.com
>> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; bphlat234 at comcast.net;
>> rockets at rocketsnw.com; jhadv at pacifier.com
>> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 17:08:17 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>>
>> One word...
>>
>> Copper oxide thermite.
>>
>> Wait, that's three words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well.
>>
>> Crap, that's seven words, unless these words count, then....never mind.
>>
>>
>> Scott T. Bowers
>> www.scottsrockets.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39 PM
>> To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>>
>> I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and larger, I've been more
>> successful adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to the ignitor. I simply
>> take a grain of BT, and cut a chunk out and use kite string to secure
>> it
> to the ignitor head.
>> When I've done this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is
>> adding the BT sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with
>> pyrogen have been fine alone?
>>
>> Curious.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gary Harris" <bphlat234 at comcast.net>
>> To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>; "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>>
>>
>> > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat producing
>> > thermite ignitors mentioned below last october to use in a 11-year
>> > old J350. It started up instantly like an Estes motor.
>> >
>> > Gary Harris
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Paul Bogdanich" <jhadv at pacifier.com>
>> > To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM
>> > Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>> >
>> >
>> >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's likely no basis
>> >> for regulating an ignitor which is used with a non-explosive device.
>> >> Igniters
>> >> packaged with unregulated motors (and replacement ignitors) were
>> >> themselves considered unregulated."
>> >>
>> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you said igniters,
>> >> "packaged with unregulated motors..." The only problem being that
>> >> said devices are, in the opinion of some, very low performance
>> >> devices so much so as to be just barely functional. People of this
>> >> opinion would point to all the chuffing and recycling one witnesses
>> >> at almost any launch. Such devices (total calorific output of less
>> >> than .5 kcal) probably do qualify as "motor starters" and may very
>> >> well be able to be unregulated. I certainly don't see why they
>> >> should be regulated as some safety match heads with the pyrogen
>> >> scraped off, dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire
>> >> would produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we?
>> >> I myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add
>> >> between 6 and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate
>> >> enough gas products to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi but <
>> >> 400 psi, totally burn well within 100 ms, and achieve a flux rate
>> >> of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec for a 38mm motor (this last metric
>> >> can change with motor size and propellant characteristics). That's
>> >> an igniter and I think you're still going to need a permit for
>> >> those. A NASA Standard would be an example of such an igniter
>> >> albeit for a much larger motor than a 38mm.
>> >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes thermate and
>> >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is an open question
>> >> as those lie between the two classes of devices already mentioned
>> >> (they generally do not pre-pressure the motor nor create a shock
>> >> wave). I suspect however, that the BATFE position would be that
>> >> thermite, thermate and thermalite are definitely regulated as they
>> >> are included in the definitions section of the statute whereas APCP
>> >> was
> not.
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Rockets mailing list
>> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From jhadv at pacifier.com  Fri Apr 10 08:17:04 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:17:04 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 15, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <mailman.890.1239336289.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090410075331.00c2beb8@mail.iinet.com>

The formula I was given by Wedge was 1 gram of thermite per 1000 N-s of motor.

We had a chat about this somewhere, we figured core volume would be a 
better way to determine amount.


The way you figure it is for APCP it takes between 2 and 10 cal / cm2 / sec 
to get it to light depending on the particular fuel.  So for rule of thumb 
purposes if you figure 10 cal / cm2 / sec your safe.  For CuO Al thermite 
the heat or reaction is about .92 kcal/gram as I recall but the question 
with thermites is how many cm2 are you heating.  Since thermites are 
generally low gas, for CuO Al thermite the answer is not many.  In effect 
the thermite is heating one grain, two at the most, at the top of the motor 
and the exhaust from that grain is catching the rest of the motor.  This 
partial ignition method is by far the easiest and works pretty good but to 
light a single grain you don't need anything near a full gram of material 
for a 1,000 NS motor.  Also think about scaling that up.  20 grams of 
material for a N motor?  With as much room as you have to work with in an N 
motor a basket burning fuel pellets would work a lot better.  The trick 
though is the small motors where you don't have room for a basket and want 
full ignition.  So as it happens 38s are harder to light via full ignition 
than 98s are.  Of course a 38 is easy to light just not all at 
once.  That's the trick.         


From jhadv at pacifier.com  Fri Apr 10 08:34:18 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:34:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
In-Reply-To: <mailman.909.1239376636.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090410083113.0314b008@mail.iinet.com>

At 08:17 AM 4/10/2009 -0700, you wrote:
>Sutton, 6th ed., p.493:
>
>M = (V^0.7)/2  for B-KNO3
>
>M in grams; motor free(i.e., not filled with propellant)volume V in cubic
>inches.
>
>How that scales to copper thermite you'll have to figure out for yourself.
>  Since professional practice usually involves rapid pre-pressurization of
>the motor, and the accompanying graph shows data for motors with free
>volumes from ten million to one thousand cubic inches, the amount of
>copper thermite for hobby motors will probably be much less than the
>formula indicates.  But what this shows is that it's not a linear
>relationship but rather a 0.7 power function of free volume.
>+McG+


True but the B-KNO3 is pelletized in a basket and in professional practice 
they control the flame front propagation by pellet size and geometry.  


From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com  Fri Apr 10 09:02:06 2009
From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:02:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <c1a.56ae564f.37102c6e@aol.com>
References: <c1a.56ae564f.37102c6e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801C3F47AA4@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net>

Adding coarse titanium to copper thermite has worked well for me. I needed to ignite delay elements and "standard" copper thermite didn't work. 

John


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 10:01 PM
To: sb at berfield.com; scott at scottsrockets.com; lawndart.robert at gmail.com; bphlat234 at comcast.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com; jhadv at pacifier.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS

If you sub out a small amount of the al and replace it with fine mg you can 
 light it with an open flame.  Unlike the standard mixture which won't even 
 light with a propane torch.  Be careful though if you do this as it is  
scary sensitive.  Static could probably set it off....no kidding.
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 4/9/2009 9:05:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
sb at berfield.com writes:

I've  done some experimenting wth Cu thermite and have had a hard time 
getting it to  light. I also finf the dry powder mix awkward to deal with. Too 
bad it is even  harder to light if you use a  binder.


**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
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From brodwcjj at integrity.com  Fri Apr 10 11:24:10 2009
From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:24:10 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.909.1239376636.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.909.1239376636.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <20090410132410.14032duyzyali9q8@wm.integrity.com>

Anyone know if using  MgAl  alloy  might provide the ignition  
benefits, without the safety downsides of adding/mixing  Mg powder  
with  Al  powder  ?

Thanks in advance,
Dustin


> From: Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>
> If you sub out a small amount of the al and replace it with fine mg you can
>  light it with an open flame.  Unlike the standard mixture which won't even
>  light with a propane torch.  Be careful though if you do this as it is
> scary sensitive.  Static could probably set it off....no kidding.
>
> Mike F.
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS


>
> Most thermites seem fairly hard to ignite.  It is, however, more an issue
> of ignition temperature than minimum required joules of energy.  The
> Al/MnO2 mix I used to use in fireworks was plain difficult to ignite by
> the usual methods yet was professionally tested as "extremely sensitive"
> to static spark.
>
> Since oxides of most common metals are quite stable the initiating
> reaction step comes from the reducing metal being transformed into a
> reactive state.  Aluminum is a surface-burning metal whereas magnesium is
> easily enough vaporized to be vapor-burning.  With aluminum you first have
> to melt through the oxide layer on the surface of the metal particles(2000
> deg C) and then have the freshly exposed metal in contact with the
> oxidizer.  With magnesium you only have to create a tiny bit of vaporized
> metal off the particle(1090 deg C)--it will find and react with the
> oxidizer by itself.  Hence the greater ease of ignition by adding
> magnesium to the mix.  However, this not only reduces the ignition
> temperature but also the minimum required joules for ignition.  Good
> rocket engineering keeps both values high enough that accidental ignition
> is not easy.  My solution to igniting manganese thermite was a hot spark
> producing pyrogen on the fuse.
>
> Temperature counts more than total energy in igniting thermites.
> +McG+
>
>

From tomjerry1 at dishmail.net  Fri Apr 10 13:38:51 2009
From: tomjerry1 at dishmail.net (Roy Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:38:51 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
References: <c1a.56ae564f.37102c6e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <84F8C36B7A4845A9BD8D7F7785F1DC9E@myDell>

Static could probably set it off....no kidding

IT WILL!!
-------------- next part --------------
Static could probably set it off....no kidding
?
IT WILL!!

From dennys at carnitech.net  Fri Apr 10 13:57:25 2009
From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:57:25 -0400
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <W3608325300227351239336278@webmail26>
References: <W3608325300227351239336278@webmail26>
Message-ID: <A153F2CD-8E8E-4398-B132-FD38E3680DC0@carnitech.net>

I used to use the Blue thunder approach on larger motors. But last  
year I arrived at a pyrogen formula that does the trick without.   
Scott Berfield gave me the hint on the "secret" ingredient.

Btw...Scott B.   I have your PRM machined. Send me your address off  
list and I'll mail it to you. Or if you'll be at the April launch, I  
can hand it to you there.

-Denny

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 10, 2009, at 12:05 AM, "Scott Berfield" <sb at berfield.com> wrote:

> I've done some experimenting wth Cu thermite and have had a hard  
> time getting it to light. I also finf the dry powder mix awkward to  
> deal with. Too bad it is even harder to light if you use a binder.
>
> I have had really good results using a strips of propellant in  
> igniters. Do a standard setup with shooting wire and wrap two strips  
> of blue thunder with the nichrome - 4 or 5 wraps. Then dip in dark  
> flash to prime and then a nice sparky pyrogen.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> Mfreptiles at aol.com [mailto:Mfreptiles at aol.com]
> Sent:
> Thursday, April 9, 2009 05:12 PM
> To:
> scott at scottsrockets.com, lawndart.robert at gmail.com, bphlat234 at comcast.net 
> ,
> rockets at rocketsnw.com, jhadv at pacifier.com
> Subject:
> Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> Except in high humidity it will not initiate unless you replace a  
> small portion of al with mg. Myself and the late Alex M. had the  
> same problem at a cold, damp, spring Brothers launch. Mike F. In a  
> message dated 4/9/2009 5:09:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, scott at scottsrockets.com 
>  writes: One word... Copper oxide thermite. Wait, that's three  
> words. Cheap, easy, safe, and works VERY well. Crap, that's seven  
> words, unless these words count, then....never mind. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com 
>  -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:39  
> PM To: Gary Harris; rockets at rocketsnw.com; Paul Bogdanich Subject:  
> Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS I'd like an opinion here. For 38mm and  
> larger, I've been more successful adding a sliver of Blue Thunder to  
> the ignitor. I simply take a grain of BT, and cut a chunk out and  
> use kite string to secure it to the ignitor head. When I've done  
> this, all motors have started fine. My question is, is adding the BT  
> sliver really helping, or would the large ignitor with pyrogen have  
> been fine alone? Curious. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message  
> ----- From: "Gary Harris"
> To:
> ; "Paul Bogdanich"
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW]  
> IGNITERS > Paul gave me one of his low-pressure and high heat  
> producing thermite > ignitors mentioned below last october to use in  
> a 11-year old J350. It > started up instantly like an Estes motor. >  
> > Gary Harris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul  
> Bogdanich"
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:30 PM > Subject: [RocketsNW]  
>> IGNITERS > > >> At 11:27 AM 4/7/2009 -0700, you wrote: "...there's  
>> likely no basis for >> regulating an ignitor which is used with a  
>> non-explosive device. >> Igniters >> packaged with unregulated  
>> motors (and replacement ignitors) were >> themselves >> considered  
>> unregulated." >> >> I think you said it in your e-mail when you  
>> said igniters, "packaged with >> unregulated motors..." The only  
>> problem being that said devices are, in >> the opinion of some,  
>> very low performance devices so much so as to be >> just >> barely  
>> functional. People of this opinion would point to all the >>  
>> chuffing >> and recycling one witnesses at almost any launch. Such  
>> devices (total >> calorific output of less than .5 kcal) probably  
>> do qualify as "motor >> starters" and may very well be able to be  
>> unregulated. I certainly don't >> see why they should be regulated  
>> as some safety match heads with the >> pyrogen scraped off,  
>> dissolved in a solvent and cast around a bridge wire >> would  
>> produce more heat. We don't regulate books of matches do we? >> I  
>> myself, however, would like to see an "igniter" that can add  
>> between 6 >> and 10 calories per cc of propellant surface, generate  
>> enough gas >> products >> to put the motor interior at >= 200 psi  
>> but < 400 psi, totally burn well >> within 100 ms, and achieve a  
>> flux rate of greater than 100 cal/cm2/sec >> for >> a 38mm motor  
>> (this last metric can change with motor size and propellant >>  
>> characteristics). That's an igniter and I think you're still going  
>> to >> need >> a permit for those. A NASA Standard would be an  
>> example of such an >> igniter >> albeit for a much larger motor  
>> than a 38mm. >> Whether or not a thermite (where such term includes  
>> thermate and >> thermalite) based igniters should be restricted is  
>> an open question as >> those lie between the two classes of devices  
>> already mentioned (they >> generally do not pre-pressure the motor  
>> nor create a shock wave). I >> suspect however, that the BATFE  
>> position would be that thermite, thermate >> and thermalite are  
>> definitely regulated as they are included in the >> definitions  
>> section of the statute whereas APCP was not. >> >>  
>> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing  
>> list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
>>  >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets  
>> mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
>>  > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing  
>> list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
>>  _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing  
>> list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
>>  **************New Deals on Dell Netbooks ??? Now starting at  
>> $299 (A HREF=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220635155x1201407495/aol?redir=http:%2F 
>>  %2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771973%3B35379628%3Bw)
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Fri Apr 10 14:25:44 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:25:44 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
Message-ID: <c07.59f762e6.37111358@aol.com>

I think it would probably work just as well, the only problem being that  
you can't tweak the percentages.  The good thing about doing it the other  
way is that you can experiment with the ratios so that it is not overly  
sensitive...ie use less mg.  I used the standard 4.5:1 formula but added  0.1 
magnesium to that ratio and got the results I was looking for, easy ignition  
with any e-match or igniter, but not overly sensitive to static or open flame 
 (wooden match).  It only takes a little bit, so you have to have a good  
scale!
 
Roy is right it is static sensitive, but the sensitivity will decrease with 
 less magnesium or coarser magnesium powder.  The finer the powder, the 
less  you need to use.  Any formula with magnesium, including just the finely  
divided powder deserves respect.
 
If you experiment with this be careful to only mix and test small  amounts. 
 Copper vapor burns your skin instantly and deeply.  
 
Mike F.
 
 
In a message dated 4/10/2009 11:24:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:

Anyone  know if using  MgAl  alloy  might provide the ignition   
benefits, without the safety downsides of adding/mixing  Mg  powder  
with  Al  powder   ?


**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26
hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
-------------- next part --------------
I think it would probably work just as well, the only problem being that you can't tweak the percentages.? The good thing about doing it the other way is that you can experiment with the ratios so that it is not overly sensitive...ie use less mg.? I used the standard 4.5:1 formula but added 0.1 magnesium to that ratio and got the results I was looking for, easy ignition with any e-match or igniter, but not overly sensitive to static or open flame (wooden match).? It only takes a little bit, so you have to have a good scale!
?
Roy is right it is static sensitive, but the sensitivity will decrease with less magnesium or coarser magnesium powder.? The finer the powder, the less you need to use.? Any formula with magnesium, including just the finely divided powder deserves respect.
?
If you experiment with this be careful to only mix and test small amounts.? Copper vapor burns your skin instantly and deeply.?
?
Mike F.
?
In a message dated 4/10/2009 11:24:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:
Anyone know if using? MgAl? alloy? might provide the ignition?
benefits, without the safety downsides of adding/mixing? Mg powder?
with? Al? powder? ?
A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62" See yours in just 2 easy steps!

From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com  Fri Apr 10 14:42:14 2009
From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:42:14 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW]  Three NW Teams heading to TARC 2009
In-Reply-To: <A153F2CD-8E8E-4398-B132-FD38E3680DC0@carnitech.net>
References: <W3608325300227351239336278@webmail26>
	<A153F2CD-8E8E-4398-B132-FD38E3680DC0@carnitech.net>
Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801C3F47B8C@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net>

No Oregon teams made the cut, but fortunately there will be teams from Washington to represent the local rocketry community.
 

Ingraham High School (Team 1)
Team Number - 7061
Seattle, WA
  
Ingraham High School (Team 2)
Team Number - 7062
Seattle, WA
  
Ingraham High School (Team 3)
Team Number - 7063
Seattle, WA
 

John


From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Fri Apr 10 14:50:09 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:50:09 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Three NW Teams heading to TARC 2009
In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801C3F47B8C@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net>
References: <W3608325300227351239336278@webmail26><A153F2CD-8E8E-4398-B132-FD38E3680DC0@carnitech.net>
	<1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801C3F47B8C@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9A5@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>


My kids are both pumped and sad.  

They are, of course, thrilled that all three teams are going.  On the
other hand, they were hoping there would be some other Northwest teams
we could hook up with.  Last year, they were so wide-eyed and happy to
be there that they didn't give much thought to finding our Northwest
brethren.  We were all hoping to change that this time around.

We'll just have to go win it for the NW.... 

Peter Schurke
Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
Seattle, WA


-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of
john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:42 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Three NW Teams heading to TARC 2009

No Oregon teams made the cut, but fortunately there will be teams from
Washington to represent the local rocketry community.
 

Ingraham High School (Team 1)
Team Number - 7061
Seattle, WA
  
Ingraham High School (Team 2)
Team Number - 7062
Seattle, WA
  
Ingraham High School (Team 3)
Team Number - 7063
Seattle, WA
 

John

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From greg at blastzone.com  Fri Apr 10 15:00:16 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:00:16 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <c07.59f762e6.37111358@aol.com>
References: <c07.59f762e6.37111358@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0f6101c9ba27$bb947790$32bd66b0$@com>

This stuff is pretty much flash powder, treat it as such.  Work only with
small batches, treat like a high explosive (cause it borderline is if you
use fine metals), be EXTREMELY cautious of static, etc...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:26 PM
> To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
> 
> I think it would probably work just as well, the only problem being that
you
> can't tweak the percentages.  The good thing about doing it the other way
is
> that you can experiment with the ratios so that it is not overly
> sensitive...ie use less mg.  I used the standard 4.5:1 formula but added
0.1
> magnesium to that ratio and got the results I was looking for, easy
ignition
> with any e-match or igniter, but not overly sensitive to static or open
flame
> (wooden match).  It only takes a little bit, so you have to have a good
scale!
> 
> Roy is right it is static sensitive, but the sensitivity will decrease
with
> less magnesium or coarser magnesium powder.  The finer the powder, the
less
> you need to use.  Any formula with magnesium, including just the finely
> divided powder deserves respect.
> 
> If you experiment with this be careful to only mix and test small
amounts.
>  Copper vapor burns your skin instantly and deeply.
> 
> Mike F.
> 
> 
> In a message dated 4/10/2009 11:24:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:
> 
> Anyone  know if using  MgAl  alloy  might provide the ignition
> benefits, without the safety downsides of adding/mixing  Mg  powder
> with  Al  powder   ?
> 
> 
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
easy
> steps!
>
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=htt
p:
> %2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26
> hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 16:52:30 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:52:30 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] April 12th;
	Yuri Gagarin 48th Anniversary Launch @ Memorial Park Wilsonville
Message-ID: <005001c9ba37$6a5edfe0$0301a8c0@LaptopKrausert>

OregonRocketry Yuri Gagarin 48th Anniversary Launch @ Memorial Park Wilsonville 

Yuri Gararin was the first person in space on April 12, 1961. Recognized and honored by NASA astronants Glenn Jr (Mercury), McDivitt (Gemini), Armstrong (Apollo). OregonRocketry is hosting the next Model Rocket Launch event at Memorial park in Wilsonville, Oregon on April 12th, 2009. Setup begins at 1:00pm, range is open for flights between 2:00pm and 5:00pm. 

Class 1 rockets under the new FAR101 unmanned rocket rules include; (1) Uses no more than 125 grams (4.4 ounces) of propellant; (2) Uses a slow-burning propellant; (3) Is made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; (4) Contains no substantial metal parts; and (5) Weighs no more than 1,500 grams (53 ounces), including the propellant. A through G motors are welcome, and even some H motors. You must however stay below our altitude limits. Conditions of the site mostly limit us to 1000 feet or cloud deck. Clear conditions and zero/low wind may permit higher fights. Ask the LCO if restrictions apply and approval for flight. 

Join us. Bring the family. Bring some rockets and have a great time flying. No RSVP necessary, just show up. When you arrive at the park, turn to the left and follow the road into the South East section of the field. I will be onsite to help Keith facilitate the event. Keith is the event director and has final approval for all aspects of the launch. 

Kids under age 18 can participate in a drawing to win special prizes. Grand prize is a rocketry box complete with controller and various supplies.

Join us for the April 12th, 2009 Model Rocket Launch Event @ Memorial Park in Wilsonville Oregon. 

Wilsonville Memorial Park
8100 SW Wilsonville Rd.
Wilsonville, OR 97070

Getting strange looks from the family for wanting to fly rockets on Easter Sunday? Take the family for dinner after the event. Or take them home after the event for a great barbeque. What a great day, BP / AP in the early afternoon and then a great dinner afterward. 

Fliers; 
Event time is 2:00pm - 5:00pm; all NAR rules apply, plus any additional rules / restrictions for this site. A fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions. LCO tables are not for prep, please use the available tables in the prep area. This is a sanctioned launch event by National Association of Rocketry through NAR section 555 OREO (Steve Tarr). Come prepared for cold weather and wear boots/shoes that will keep feet warm and dry. 

Support staff; 
We are planning to arrive by 1:00pm to scope out parking and field preference. Keith is bringing a six rod launch pad (has 1/8, 3/8, and 1/4" rods), and I'll be bringing LCO tables, flight line stakes, and my launch controller. So no OROC GSE is needed for this event. We need extra tables for the prep area. The only other thing I can think of is extra Estes ignitors. I'm planning to bring some spare motors and a bunch of different size Estes ignitors... They like to spit too often, so if you have extra ignitors and plungers, and can spare them, please bring. Certainly bring some rockets... I can also bring a bag of dog barf. A fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions.

Cheers,
Robert

-------------- next part --------------
OregonRocketry Yuri Gagarin 48th Anniversary?Launch @ Memorial Park Wilsonville
Yuri Gararin was the first person in space on April 12, 1961. Recognized and honored by NASA astronants Glenn Jr (Mercury), McDivitt (Gemini), Armstrong (Apollo).
OregonRocketry is hosting the next?Model Rocket Launch event at Memorial park in Wilsonville, Oregon on April 12th, 2009. Setup begins at 1:00pm, range is open for flights between 2:00pm and 5:00pm.
Class 1 rockets under the new FAR101 unmanned rocket rules include;
(1) Uses no more than 125 grams (4.4 ounces) of propellant; (2) Uses a slow-burning propellant; (3) Is made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; (4) Contains no substantial metal parts; and (5) Weighs no more than 1,500 grams (53 ounces), including the propellant.
A through G motors are welcome, and even some H motors. You must however stay below our altitude limits. Conditions of the site mostly limit us to 1000 feet or cloud deck. Clear conditions and zero/low wind may permit higher fights. Ask the LCO if restrictions apply and approval for flight.
Join us. Bring the family. Bring some rockets and have a great time flying. No RSVP necessary, just show up. When you arrive at the park, turn to the left and follow the road into the South East section of the field.
I will be onsite to help Keith facilitate the event. Keith is the event director and has final approval for all aspects of the launch.
Kids under age 18 can participate in a drawing to win special prizes. Grand prize is a rocketry box complete with controller and various supplies.
Join us for the April 12th, 2009 Model Rocket Launch Event @ Memorial Park in Wilsonville Oregon.
Wilsonville Memorial Park
8100 SW Wilsonville Rd.
Wilsonville, OR 97070
Getting strange looks from the family for wanting to fly rockets?on Easter?Sunday? Take the family for dinner after the event. Or take them home after the event for a great barbeque. What a great day, BP / AP in the early afternoon and then a great dinner afterward.
Fliers;
Event time is 2:00pm - 5:00pm; all NAR rules apply, plus any additional rules / restrictions for this site. A fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions. LCO tables are not for prep, please use the available tables in the prep area. This is a sanctioned launch event by National Association of Rocketry through NAR section 555 OREO (Steve Tarr). Come prepared for cold weather and wear boots/shoes that will keep feet warm and dry.
Support staff;
We are planning to arrive by 1:00pm to scope out parking and field preference. Keith is bringing a six rod launch pad (has 1/8, 3/8, and 1/4" rods), and I'll be bringing LCO tables, flight line stakes, and my launch controller. So no OROC GSE is needed for this event. We need extra tables for the prep area. The only other thing I can think of is extra Estes ignitors. I'm planning to bring some spare motors and a bunch of different size Estes ignitors... They like to spit too often, so if you have extra ignitors and plungers, and can spare them, please bring. Certainly bring some rockets... I can also bring a bag of dog barf. A fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions.
Cheers,
Robert

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Sat Apr 11 01:22:16 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:22:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <0f6101c9ba27$bb947790$32bd66b0$@com>
References: <c07.59f762e6.37111358@aol.com>
	<0f6101c9ba27$bb947790$32bd66b0$@com>
Message-ID: <4b240189e66f2526d48e509718754e5b.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Dunno about copper thermite, but Al/MnO2 (as I made it with 5 micron
aluminum) exhibits a very low pressure exponent.  Two-edged sword, that. 
It absolutely was not detonable but always went "poof" when ignited as an
unconfined pile.  Poof as in faster than you can jerk your hand away, but
not fast enough to make a "pop."  Copper thermite is probably similar. 
Any accidental ignition will have for all practical purposes zero time to
get away--by the time you've realized it has ignited you're already crispy
crittered.  Lab experiments have shown that we all live in the past.  It
takes somewhere between about .05 to .2 second to consciously experience
input from sensory organs.  This is why you can't see the flicker of CRT
screens and fluorescent lights but many people(like me) can detect the 24
frame per second flicker of movie film.

Once you add magnesium powder, even in low concentrations, then actual
detonability definitely becomes a possibility.

Years ago one pyrotechnic supplier(Kosanke) sold a low cost static
electricity detector.  Sitting there on my workbench it would detect when
I lifted one foot up off the floor.  Great training tool for amateur
pyrotechnicians but long since out of production.  I thought I was being
being pretty good about static control protocol until I got that thing.
+McG+


> This stuff is pretty much flash powder, treat it as such.  Work only with
> small batches, treat like a high explosive (cause it borderline is if you
> use fine metals), be EXTREMELY cautious of static, etc...
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
>> Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com
>> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:26 PM
>> To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] IGNITERS
>>
>> I think it would probably work just as well, the only problem being that
> you
>> can't tweak the percentages.  The good thing about doing it the other
>> way
> is
>> that you can experiment with the ratios so that it is not overly
>> sensitive...ie use less mg.  I used the standard 4.5:1 formula but added
> 0.1
>> magnesium to that ratio and got the results I was looking for, easy
> ignition
>> with any e-match or igniter, but not overly sensitive to static or open
> flame
>> (wooden match).  It only takes a little bit, so you have to have a good
> scale!
>>
>> Roy is right it is static sensitive, but the sensitivity will decrease
> with
>> less magnesium or coarser magnesium powder.  The finer the powder, the
> less
>> you need to use.  Any formula with magnesium, including just the finely
>> divided powder deserves respect.
>>
>> If you experiment with this be careful to only mix and test small
> amounts.
>>  Copper vapor burns your skin instantly and deeply.
>>
>> Mike F.
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 4/10/2009 11:24:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>> brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:
>>
>> Anyone  know if using  MgAl  alloy  might provide the ignition
>> benefits, without the safety downsides of adding/mixing  Mg  powder
>> with  Al  powder   ?
>>
>>
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
> easy
>> steps!
>>
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=htt
> p:
>> %2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26
>> hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From jhadv at pacifier.com  Sat Apr 11 13:01:26 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:01:26 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Subject: Re:  IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1239476403.9686.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090411122044.00c2ba10@mail.iinet.com>

	I have also looked at MnO2 - Al thermite as opposed to CuO based 
thermite.  While MnO2 - Al is definitely hotter than CuO - Al 
thermite,  MnO2 - Al thermite displays rapid expansion characteristics that 
can be confused with explosive as the reaction temperature is above the 
boiling point of both Aluminum and Al2O3 so it throws its toys from the 
pram as they say.  Straight MnO2 - Mg thermite is something I have not 
tried but by the math the predicted heat of reaction should be 
materially  higher, the gas production much reduced and the expansion 
minimal due to the high boiling point of MgO.  But as with many things 
concerning fine Mg it's probably not safe for some obscure reason.  I was 
most surprised to learn for example that an uncured NH4ClO4 - Mg mix 
develops an exothermic potential to the point of a serious risk of 
spontaneous ignition if there is any water or water vapor around.  Not 
good.  So I try and avoid Mg whenever possible.  That's probably why it's 
nearly impossible to get Mg to the point it can only be shipped LTL.


From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Sun Apr 12 15:33:58 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:33:58 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
 LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2><a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>

In my searches I couldn't seem to find anything specific to APCP or other such substances in the King County fire code.  do you have a reference?

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
To: Dennis Winningstad
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today

Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
reference the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far as
regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep the
fire marshal happy.  Especially in places like King county.

Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to storing
stuff they consider darn flammable.
+McG+


> Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so when it is
> time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails and
> phone
> calls :D
>
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529
>
> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
> To: Brian Jarchow; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>
> I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we "wait
> and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
> completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them that
> chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
>
> I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
> our government that currently there are several people in the state with
> explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE says
> so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there will
> be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
>
> steve bloom
>
>
>
>
> *********************************
> We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to
> fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
> legislative authority.
>
> I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
> list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
> friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
> members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
> really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sun Apr 12 16:37:24 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 16:37:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] April 12th;
	Yuri Gagarin 48th Anniversary Launch @ Memorial Park Wilsonville
Message-ID: <001301c9bbc7$a2dcb8b0$0301a8c0@LaptopKrausert>

Canceled. Keith and I, with help from George Rachor got the range setup. Winds well above NAR limits. Sadly at 2:15pm we called the event. Rain at least wasn't a factor, just the wind. Since I've been home the wind and rain have been heavy. Part of living in the Pacific Northwest.

Next launch will be May 10th, 2pm - 5pm.

Cheers,
Robert
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Krausert 
  To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
  Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 4:52 PM
  Subject: April 12th; Yuri Gagarin 48th Anniversary Launch @ Memorial Park Wilsonville 


  OregonRocketry Yuri Gagarin 48th Anniversary Launch @ Memorial Park Wilsonville 

  Yuri Gararin was the first person in space on April 12, 1961. Recognized and honored by NASA astronants Glenn Jr (Mercury), McDivitt (Gemini), Armstrong (Apollo). OregonRocketry is hosting the next Model Rocket Launch event at Memorial park in Wilsonville, Oregon on April 12th, 2009. Setup begins at 1:00pm, range is open for flights between 2:00pm and 5:00pm. 

  Class 1 rockets under the new FAR101 unmanned rocket rules include; (1) Uses no more than 125 grams (4.4 ounces) of propellant; (2) Uses a slow-burning propellant; (3) Is made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; (4) Contains no substantial metal parts; and (5) Weighs no more than 1,500 grams (53 ounces), including the propellant. A through G motors are welcome, and even some H motors. You must however stay below our altitude limits. Conditions of the site mostly limit us to 1000 feet or cloud deck. Clear conditions and zero/low wind may permit higher fights. Ask the LCO if restrictions apply and approval for flight. 

  Join us. Bring the family. Bring some rockets and have a great time flying. No RSVP necessary, just show up. When you arrive at the park, turn to the left and follow the road into the South East section of the field. I will be onsite to help Keith facilitate the event. Keith is the event director and has final approval for all aspects of the launch. 

  Kids under age 18 can participate in a drawing to win special prizes. Grand prize is a rocketry box complete with controller and various supplies.

  Join us for the April 12th, 2009 Model Rocket Launch Event @ Memorial Park in Wilsonville Oregon. 

  Wilsonville Memorial Park
  8100 SW Wilsonville Rd.
  Wilsonville, OR 97070

  Getting strange looks from the family for wanting to fly rockets on Easter Sunday? Take the family for dinner after the event. Or take them home after the event for a great barbeque. What a great day, BP / AP in the early afternoon and then a great dinner afterward. 

  Fliers; 
  Event time is 2:00pm - 5:00pm; all NAR rules apply, plus any additional rules / restrictions for this site. A fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions. LCO tables are not for prep, please use the available tables in the prep area. This is a sanctioned launch event by National Association of Rocketry through NAR section 555 OREO (Steve Tarr). Come prepared for cold weather and wear boots/shoes that will keep feet warm and dry. 

  Support staff; 
  We are planning to arrive by 1:00pm to scope out parking and field preference. Keith is bringing a six rod launch pad (has 1/8, 3/8, and 1/4" rods), and I'll be bringing LCO tables, flight line stakes, and my launch controller. So no OROC GSE is needed for this event. We need extra tables for the prep area. The only other thing I can think of is extra Estes ignitors. I'm planning to bring some spare motors and a bunch of different size Estes ignitors... They like to spit too often, so if you have extra ignitors and plungers, and can spare them, please bring. Certainly bring some rockets... I can also bring a bag of dog barf. A fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions.

  Cheers,
  Robert

-------------- next part --------------
Canceled. Keith and I, with help from George Rachor got the range setup. Winds well above NAR limits. Sadly at 2:15pm we called the event. Rain at least wasn't a factor, just the wind. Since I've been home the wind and rain have been heavy. Part of living in the Pacific Northwest.
?
Next launch will be May 10th, 2pm - 5pm.
?
Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:lawndart.robert at gmail.com Robert Krausert
To:
mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent:
Friday, April 10, 2009 4:52 PM
Subject:
April 12th; Yuri Gagarin 48th Anniversary Launch @ Memorial Park Wilsonville
OregonRocketry Yuri Gagarin 48th Anniversary?Launch @ Memorial Park Wilsonville
Yuri Gararin was the first person in space on April 12, 1961. Recognized and honored by NASA astronants Glenn Jr (Mercury), McDivitt (Gemini), Armstrong (Apollo).
OregonRocketry is hosting the next?Model Rocket Launch event at Memorial park in Wilsonville, Oregon on April 12th, 2009. Setup begins at 1:00pm, range is open for flights between 2:00pm and 5:00pm.
Class 1 rockets under the new FAR101 unmanned rocket rules include;
(1) Uses no more than 125 grams (4.4 ounces) of propellant; (2) Uses a slow-burning propellant; (3) Is made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; (4) Contains no substantial metal parts; and (5) Weighs no more than 1,500 grams (53 ounces), including the propellant.
A through G motors are welcome, and even some H motors. You must however stay below our altitude limits. Conditions of the site mostly limit us to 1000 feet or cloud deck. Clear conditions and zero/low wind may permit higher fights. Ask the LCO if restrictions apply and approval for flight.
Join us. Bring the family. Bring some rockets and have a great time flying. No RSVP necessary, just show up. When you arrive at the park, turn to the left and follow the road into the South East section of the field.
I will be onsite to help Keith facilitate the event. Keith is the event director and has final approval for all aspects of the launch.
Kids under age 18 can participate in a drawing to win special prizes. Grand prize is a rocketry box complete with controller and various supplies.
Join us for the April 12th, 2009 Model Rocket Launch Event @ Memorial Park in Wilsonville Oregon.
Wilsonville Memorial Park
8100 SW Wilsonville Rd.
Wilsonville, OR 97070
Getting strange looks from the family for wanting to fly rockets?on Easter?Sunday? Take the family for dinner after the event. Or take them home after the event for a great barbeque. What a great day, BP / AP in the early afternoon and then a great dinner afterward.
Fliers;
Event time is 2:00pm - 5:00pm; all NAR rules apply, plus any additional rules / restrictions for this site. A fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions. LCO tables are not for prep, please use the available tables in the prep area. This is a sanctioned launch event by National Association of Rocketry through NAR section 555 OREO (Steve Tarr). Come prepared for cold weather and wear boots/shoes that will keep feet warm and dry.
Support staff;
We are planning to arrive by 1:00pm to scope out parking and field preference. Keith is bringing a six rod launch pad (has 1/8, 3/8, and 1/4" rods), and I'll be bringing LCO tables, flight line stakes, and my launch controller. So no OROC GSE is needed for this event. We need extra tables for the prep area. The only other thing I can think of is extra Estes ignitors. I'm planning to bring some spare motors and a bunch of different size Estes ignitors... They like to spit too often, so if you have extra ignitors and plungers, and can spare them, please bring. Certainly bring some rockets... I can also bring a bag of dog barf. A fliers meeting right at noon, so everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions.
Cheers,
Robert

From carl at mousetrap.com  Mon Apr 13 07:37:17 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:37:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com>
	<6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>

You can't find any references in the King County fire code because the fire
code is structured like this: we adopt the International Fire Code 2006
Edition with a bunch of amendments. This is spelled out in section 17.04.010
of this document:
http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
.
The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You
should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at
section 3301.1.4,
titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of: The storage,
handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall comply with the
requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.

The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the local
fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.

 - Carl

On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>wrote:

> In my searches I couldn't seem to find anything specific to APCP or other
> such substances in the King County fire code.  do you have a reference?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
> To: Dennis Winningstad
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>
> Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
> reference the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far as
> regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep the
> fire marshal happy.  Especially in places like King county.
>
> Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to storing
> stuff they consider darn flammable.
> +McG+
>
>
> > Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so when it
> is
> > time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails and
> > phone
> > calls :D
> >
> > Dennis S Winningstad
> > 503-781-3529
> >
> > It is bad luck to be superstitious.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:
> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
> > To: Brian Jarchow; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
> > LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
> >
> > I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we "wait
> > and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
> > completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them that
> > chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
> >
> > I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
> > our government that currently there are several people in the state with
> > explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE says
> > so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there will
> > be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
> >
> > steve bloom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *********************************
> > We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to
> > fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
> > legislative authority.
> >
> > I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
> > list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
> > friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
> > members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
> > really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
.
The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at section?
3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of:?
The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
?- Carl
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Brad Wright
< mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com bradwr at wrightholdings.com
>
wrote:
In my searches I couldn't seem to find anything specific to APCP or other such substances in the King County fire code. ?do you have a reference?
-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
] On Behalf Of mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
To: Dennis Winningstad
Cc: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector) LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
reference the NFPA codes. ?L&I may soon be out of the picture as far as
regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep the
fire marshal happy. ?Especially in places like King county.
Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to storing
stuff they consider darn flammable.
+McG+
> Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so when it is
> time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails and
> phone
> calls :D
>
> Dennis S Winningstad
> 503-781-3529
>
> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
]
> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
> To: Brian Jarchow; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>
> I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we "wait
> and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
> completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them that
> chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
>
> I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
> our government that currently there are several people in the state with
> explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE says
> so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there will
> be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
>
> steve bloom
>
>
>
>
> *********************************
> We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to
> fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
> legislative authority.
>
> I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
> list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
> friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
> members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
> really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From terry at mooreread.com  Mon Apr 13 07:40:59 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:40:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com>
	<6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>

The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there  
really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.


On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:

> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ 
> documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ 
> ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> .
> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web.  
> You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look  
> at section
> 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines  
> of:
> The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall  
> comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give  
> the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
>  - Carl
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Brad Wright
> < mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com bradwr at wrightholdings.com
>>
> wrote:
> In my searches I couldn't seem to find anything specific to APCP or  
> other such substances in the King County fire code.  do you have a  
> reference?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> ] On Behalf Of mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
> To: Dennis Winningstad
> Cc: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)  
> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
> Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
> reference the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far  
> as
> regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep  
> the
> fire marshal happy.  Especially in places like King county.
> Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to  
> storing
> stuff they consider darn flammable.
> +McG+
>> Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so  
>> when it is
>> time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails and
>> phone
>> calls :D
>>
>> Dennis S Winningstad
>> 503-781-3529
>>
>> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> ]
>> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
>> To: Brian Jarchow; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
>> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>>
>> I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we  
>> "wait
>> and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
>> completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them  
>> that
>> chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
>>
>> I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
>> our government that currently there are several people in the state  
>> with
>> explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE  
>> says
>> so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there  
>> will
>> be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
>>
>> steve bloom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *********************************
>> We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need  
>> to
>> fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
>> legislative authority.
>>
>> I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
>> list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
>> friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
>> members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
>> really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


From carl at mousetrap.com  Mon Apr 13 07:46:55 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:46:55 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0904130746s5f442625w508e25bc62a0f518@mail.gmail.com>

That's great news. Please let me know when you find it...

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Terry Moore-Read <terry at mooreread.com>wrote:

> The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there really
> should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
>
>  http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
>> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
>> ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
>> .
>> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You
>> should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at section
>> 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of:
>> The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall comply
>> with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
>> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the
>> local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
>>  - Carl
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Terry Moore-Read
< mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com
>
wrote:
The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
.
The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at section
3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of:
The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
?- Carl

From terry at mooreread.com  Mon Apr 13 08:48:32 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 08:48:32 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0904130746s5f442625w508e25bc62a0f518@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130746s5f442625w508e25bc62a0f518@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6E4E44F1-CCB0-48BB-A703-FBA4DFBB8818@mooreread.com>

took a few minutes to find the 2003 edition : http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf

2006 seems to be the current version,   still looking.
On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:

> That's great news. Please let me know when you find it...
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Terry Moore-Read  
> <terry at mooreread.com> wrote:
> The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there  
> really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
>
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ 
> documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ 
> ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
>
> .
> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web.  
> You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look  
> at section
> 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines  
> of:
> The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall  
> comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give  
> the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
>  - Carl


--
This message has been scanned for viruses
and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.

NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
privileged material, and is intended solely
for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
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If you are not the recipient, and believe that
you have received this in error, please notify
the sender and delete the copy you received.

Thank You!

-------------- next part --------------
took a few minutes to find the 2003 edition :? http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf
2006 seems to be the current version, ? still looking. ??
On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
That's great news. Please let me know when you find it...
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Terry Moore-Read
< mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com
>
wrote:
The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
.
The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at section
3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of:
The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
?- Carl
-- --
This message has been scanned for viruses
and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
privileged material, and is intended solely
for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
If you are not the recipient, and believe that
you have received this in error, please notify
the sender and delete the copy you received.
Thank You!

From terry at mooreread.com  Mon Apr 13 09:45:14 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:45:14 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0904130746s5f442625w508e25bc62a0f518@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130746s5f442625w508e25bc62a0f518@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <233D9CB1-2570-47A8-9367-A22EA473FEEF@mooreread.com>

1122 & 1127 essentially incorporate the model and high power safety  
codes respectively.   1125 deals with manufacture of rocket motors.    
I don't have the text of these but I don't think they give the fire  
marshal veto rights over your posession of rocket motors.


On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:

> That's great news. Please let me know when you find it...
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Terry Moore-Read  
> <terry at mooreread.com> wrote:
> The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there  
> really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
>
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ 
> documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ 
> ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
>
> .
> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web.  
> You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look  
> at section
> 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines  
> of:
> The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall  
> comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give  
> the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
>  - Carl


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-------------- next part --------------
1122 & 1127 essentially incorporate the model and high power safety codes respectively. ? 1125 deals with manufacture of rocket motors. ? I don't have the text of these but I don't think they give the fire marshal veto rights over your posession of rocket motors.
On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
That's great news. Please let me know when you find it...
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Terry Moore-Read
< mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com
>
wrote:
The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
.
The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at section
3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of:
The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
?- Carl
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you have received this in error, please notify
the sender and delete the copy you received.
Thank You!

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Mon Apr 13 10:01:17 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:01:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I
 Inspector)	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <6E4E44F1-CCB0-48BB-A703-FBA4DFBB8818@mooreread.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>	<7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>	<e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>	<5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>	<e068dfbd0904130746s5f442625w508e25bc62a0f518@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E4E44F1-CCB0-48BB-A703-FBA4DFBB8818@mooreread.com>
Message-ID: <49E36FDD.1030108@hawkfeather.com>

Here's the 2006 Chapter 33, with some markups:
http://www.bismarck.org/uploads/doc_2006_International_Fire_Code_Fireworks_7_08.pdf

Andrew.

Terry Moore-Read wrote:
> took a few minutes to find the 2003 edition :  http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf
> 2006 seems to be the current version,   still looking.   
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
> That's great news. Please let me know when you find it...
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Terry Moore-Read
> < mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com
> wrote:
> The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
> documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
> ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> .
> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at section
> 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of:
> The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
>  - Carl
> -- --
> This message has been scanned for viruses
> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
> privileged material, and is intended solely
> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
> you have received this in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the copy you received.
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>   

From carl at mousetrap.com  Mon Apr 13 10:08:18 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:08:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
	LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <49E36FDD.1030108@hawkfeather.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130746s5f442625w508e25bc62a0f518@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E4E44F1-CCB0-48BB-A703-FBA4DFBB8818@mooreread.com>
	<49E36FDD.1030108@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0904131008q4557ce60x8ef9ed5b16dcd8dd@mail.gmail.com>

This appears to be only a very small subset of Chapter 33, highlighting
local amendments for fireworks. Look at the link Terry sent for a full-blown
version of Chapter 33.
 - Carl

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Andrew MacMillen
<andrewm at hawkfeather.com>wrote:

> Here's the 2006 Chapter 33, with some markups:
>
> http://www.bismarck.org/uploads/doc_2006_International_Fire_Code_Fireworks_7_08.pdf
>
> Andrew.
>
> Terry Moore-Read wrote:
> > took a few minutes to find the 2003 edition :
> http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf
> http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf
> > 2006 seems to be the current version,   still looking.
> > On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
> > That's great news. Please let me know when you find it...
> > On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Terry Moore-Read
> > < mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com
> > wrote:
> > The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there
> really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
> > On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
> > http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
> > documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
> > ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> > .
> > The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You
> should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at section
> > 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of:
> > The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall
> comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
> > The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the
> local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
> >  - Carl
> > -- --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses
> > and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
> > NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
> > privileged material, and is intended solely
> > for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
> > review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
> > bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
> > If you are not the recipient, and believe that
> > you have received this in error, please notify
> > the sender and delete the copy you received.
> > Thank You!
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
?- Carl
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Andrew MacMillen
< mailto:andrewm at hawkfeather.com andrewm at hawkfeather.com
>
wrote:
Here's the 2006 Chapter 33, with some markups:
http://www.bismarck.org/uploads/doc_2006_International_Fire_Code_Fireworks_7_08.pdf http://www.bismarck.org/uploads/doc_2006_International_Fire_Code_Fireworks_7_08.pdf
Andrew.
Terry Moore-Read wrote:
> took a few minutes to find the 2003 edition : ? http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf
http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf http://www2.rigov.org/pdf/inspections/2003InternationCodes/2003InternationalFireCode.pdf
> 2006 seems to be the current version, ? still looking.
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
> That's great news. Please let me know when you find it...
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Terry Moore-Read
> < mailto: mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com
mailto:terry at mooreread.com terry at mooreread.com
> wrote:
> The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
> documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
> ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> .
> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at section
> 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of:
> The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
> ?- Carl
> -- --
> This message has been scanned for viruses
> and dangerous content by Lukins & Annis, P.S.
> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential or
> privileged material, and is intended solely
> for use by the above referenced recipient. Any
> review, copying, printing, disclosure, distri-
> bution, or any other use, is strictly prohibited.
> If you are not the recipient, and believe that
> you have received this in error, please notify
> the sender and delete the copy you received.
> Thank You!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From bigrockets at verizon.net  Mon Apr 13 12:21:59 2009
From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 12:21:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
Message-ID: <002401c9bc6d$1e970280$5bc50780$@net>

Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front window
at Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically right
across highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it
reminded me of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags
about a wing span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we
could try and get a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near
Morton Washington called Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there
and no one was in the air yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted
to be what hang glider pilots called "A wind dummy."  If you know the site
pretty well you can tell if it's soarable or not just by standing at the
launch and letting the breeze hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy
stuff. Sometimes I got skunked and did a sled ride to the landing area but
most of the time I got lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew
scrambled getting their gliders assembled. 

Where I'm going with all of this is;  I've noticed maybe a couple of upper
layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time it's pretty
high.  I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big
parachute on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all
the time but for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches.
It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big motor,
just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I just
don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor so ifn the
thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics either. If the
club sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all
use it when we deemed it necessary.  I was thinking of something with a 5"
airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find
something that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with
some red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing.
I'm just thinking out loud here.  

Any ideas?

 

Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy)

-------------- next part --------------
Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front window at Wildcat Mountain. It???s real up close and personal being basically right across highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it reminded me of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a wing span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try and get a ???into the wind??? launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington called Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in the air yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang glider pilots called ???A wind dummy.??? If you know the site pretty well you can tell if it???s soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the breeze hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got skunked and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting their gliders assembled.
Where I???m going with all of this is; I???ve noticed maybe a couple of upper layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time it???s pretty high. I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big parachute on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the time but for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches. It could be built really cheapo, doesn???t have to be CF and have a big motor, just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I just don???t know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor so ifn the thing got lost it???s no big deal, doesn???t need electronics either. If the club sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all use it when we deemed it necessary. I was thinking of something with a 5??? airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find something that wouldn???t set things on fire. I???d be willing to paint it with some red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing. I???m just thinking out loud here.
Any ideas?
?
Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy)

From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Apr 13 12:43:28 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 12:43:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
In-Reply-To: <002401c9bc6d$1e970280$5bc50780$@net>
References: <002401c9bc6d$1e970280$5bc50780$@net>
Message-ID: <1b2f01c9bc70$1e6d5310$5b47f930$@com>

Something with a 5" airframe?  Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in
the higher wind levels.  :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Dave Proffitt
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM
> To: OROC List
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
> 
> Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front window
at
> Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically right
across
> highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it reminded
me
> of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a
wing
> span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try and
get
> a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington
called
> Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in the
air
> yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang glider
> pilots called "A wind dummy."  If you know the site pretty well you can
tell
> if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the
breeze
> hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got
skunked
> and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got lots of
> space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting their gliders
> assembled.
> 
> Where I'm going with all of this is;  I've noticed maybe a couple of upper
> layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time it's pretty
high.
> I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big
parachute
> on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the time
but
> for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches.
> It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big
motor,
> just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I just
> don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor so ifn the
> thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics either. If the
club
> sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all use
it
> when we deemed it necessary.  I was thinking of something with a 5"
> airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find
something
> that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some red
> neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing.
> I'm just thinking out loud here.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> 
> Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy)



From clappfamily at comcast.net  Mon Apr 13 13:11:33 2009
From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:11:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
In-Reply-To: <1b2f01c9bc70$1e6d5310$5b47f930$@com>
Message-ID: <97435340.1023831239653493732.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so they can test??a motor. 



Rick 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com> 
To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 

Something with a 5" airframe? ??Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in 
the higher wind levels. ??:) 

> -----Original Message----- 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] 
On 
> Behalf Of Dave Proffitt 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM 
> To: OROC List 
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 
> 
> Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front window 
at 
> Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically right 
across 
> highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it reminded 
me 
> of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a 
wing 
> span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try and 
get 
> a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington 
called 
> Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in the 
air 
> yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang glider 
> pilots called "A wind dummy." ??If you know the site pretty well you can 
tell 
> if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the 
breeze 
> hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got 
skunked 
> and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got lots of 
> space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting their gliders 
> assembled. 
> 
> Where I'm going with all of this is; ??I've noticed maybe a couple of upper 
> layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time it's pretty 
high. 
> I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big 
parachute 
> on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the time 
but 
> for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches. 
> It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big 
motor, 
> just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I just 
> don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor so ifn the 
> thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics either. If the 
club 
> sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all use 
it 
> when we deemed it necessary. ??I was thinking of something with a 5" 
> airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find 
something 
> that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some red 
> neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing. 
> I'm just thinking out loud here. 
> 
> Any ideas? 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy) 


_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
???? 
-------------- next part --------------
Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so they can test?a motor.
?
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
Something with a 5" airframe? ?Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in
the higher wind levels. ?:)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Dave Proffitt
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM
> To: OROC List
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
> Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front window
at
> Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically right
across
> highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it reminded
me
> of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a
wing
> span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try and
get
> a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington
called
> Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in the
air
> yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang glider
> pilots called "A wind dummy." ?If you know the site pretty well you can
tell
> if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the
breeze
> hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got
skunked
> and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got lots of
> space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting their gliders
> assembled.
>
> Where I'm going with all of this is; ?I've noticed maybe a couple of upper
> layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time it's pretty
high.
> I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big
parachute
> on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the time
but
> for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches.
> It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big
motor,
> just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I just
> don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor so ifn the
> thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics either. If the
club
> sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all use
it
> when we deemed it necessary. ?I was thinking of something with a 5"
> airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find
something
> that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some red
> neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing.
> I'm just thinking out loud here.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy)
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
??

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Mon Apr 13 13:25:10 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:25:10 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
In-Reply-To: <97435340.1023831239653493732.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1b2f01c9bc70$1e6d5310$5b47f930$@com>
	<97435340.1023831239653493732.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00d401c9bc75$f30e3580$d92aa080$@net>

I would think a 75 mm single deploy would be the optimal bird for this.  It would be light enough so the chute does not have to be huge and can reach 20K+ on an M motor.  You would need minimal electronics to deploy the chute - a timer would do, but an altimeter would be better.  You would also want to install electronic tracking since it is apt to drift a long way.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:12 PM
To: Greg Deputy
Cc: OROC List
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy



Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so they can test a motor. 



Rick 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 

Something with a 5" airframe?  Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in the higher wind levels.  :) 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On 
> Behalf Of Dave Proffitt
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM
> To: OROC List
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
> 
> Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front 
> window
at 
> Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically 
> right
across 
> highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it 
> reminded
me 
> of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a
wing 
> span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try 
> and
get 
> a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington
called 
> Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in 
> the
air 
> yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang 
> glider pilots called "A wind dummy."  If you know the site pretty well 
> you can
tell 
> if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the
breeze 
> hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got
skunked 
> and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got 
> lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting 
> their gliders assembled.
> 
> Where I'm going with all of this is;  I've noticed maybe a couple of 
> upper layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time 
> it's pretty
high. 
> I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big
parachute 
> on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the 
> time
but 
> for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches. 
> It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big
motor, 
> just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I 
> just don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor 
> so ifn the thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics 
> either. If the
club 
> sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all 
> use
it 
> when we deemed it necessary.  I was thinking of something with a 5" 
> airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find
something 
> that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some 
> red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing.
> I'm just thinking out loud here. 
> 
> Any ideas? 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy)


_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
   


From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Apr 13 13:39:47 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:39:47 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
In-Reply-To: <00d401c9bc75$f30e3580$d92aa080$@net>
References: <1b2f01c9bc70$1e6d5310$5b47f930$@com>
	<97435340.1023831239653493732.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<00d401c9bc75$f30e3580$d92aa080$@net>
Message-ID: <1b6c01c9bc77$fd73e1d0$f85ba570$@com>

Well now you're getting away from David's design criteria.  From what he was saying, sounds like he was thinking something closer to disposable.  75mm hardware doesn?t fit that, in my mind.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:25 PM
> To: clappfamily at comcast.net; 'Greg Deputy'
> Cc: 'OROC List'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
> 
> I would think a 75 mm single deploy would be the optimal bird for this.  It
> would be light enough so the chute does not have to be huge and can reach 20K+
> on an M motor.  You would need minimal electronics to deploy the chute - a
> timer would do, but an altimeter would be better.  You would also want to
> install electronic tracking since it is apt to drift a long way.
> 
> Marty
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On
> Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:12 PM
> To: Greg Deputy
> Cc: OROC List
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so
> they can test a motor.
> 
> 
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
> To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, "OROC List"
> <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
> 
> Something with a 5" airframe?  Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in the
> higher wind levels.  :)
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Dave Proffitt
> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM
> > To: OROC List
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
> >
> > Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front
> > window
> at
> > Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically
> > right
> across
> > highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it
> > reminded
> me
> > of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a
> wing
> > span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try
> > and
> get
> > a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington
> called
> > Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in
> > the
> air
> > yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang
> > glider pilots called "A wind dummy."  If you know the site pretty well
> > you can
> tell
> > if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the
> breeze
> > hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got
> skunked
> > and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got
> > lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting
> > their gliders assembled.
> >
> > Where I'm going with all of this is;  I've noticed maybe a couple of
> > upper layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time
> > it's pretty
> high.
> > I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big
> parachute
> > on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the
> > time
> but
> > for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches.
> > It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big
> motor,
> > just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I
> > just don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor
> > so ifn the thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics
> > either. If the
> club
> > sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all
> > use
> it
> > when we deemed it necessary.  I was thinking of something with a 5"
> > airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find
> something
> > that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some
> > red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing.
> > I'm just thinking out loud here.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Mon Apr 13 14:01:00 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (raystoner99 at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:01:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
In-Reply-To: <1b6c01c9bc77$fd73e1d0$f85ba570$@com>
Message-ID: <1824449230.1016281239656460719.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

how about a balloon? 

Ray 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com> 
To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>, clappfamily at comcast.net 
Cc: "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:39:47 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 

Well now you're getting away from David's design criteria. From what he was saying, sounds like he was thinking something closer to disposable. 75mm hardware doesn???t fit that, in my mind. 

> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:25 PM 
> To: clappfamily at comcast.net; 'Greg Deputy' 
> Cc: 'OROC List' 
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 
> 
> I would think a 75 mm single deploy would be the optimal bird for this. It 
> would be light enough so the chute does not have to be huge and can reach 20K+ 
> on an M motor. You would need minimal electronics to deploy the chute - a 
> timer would do, but an altimeter would be better. You would also want to 
> install electronic tracking since it is apt to drift a long way. 
> 
> Marty 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On 
> Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:12 PM 
> To: Greg Deputy 
> Cc: OROC List 
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so 
> they can test a motor. 
> 
> 
> 
> Rick 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com> 
> To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, "OROC List" 
> <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 
> 
> Something with a 5" airframe? Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in the 
> higher wind levels. :) 
> 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] 
> On 
> > Behalf Of Dave Proffitt 
> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM 
> > To: OROC List 
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 
> > 
> > Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front 
> > window 
> at 
> > Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically 
> > right 
> across 
> > highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it 
> > reminded 
> me 
> > of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a 
> wing 
> > span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try 
> > and 
> get 
> > a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington 
> called 
> > Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in 
> > the 
> air 
> > yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang 
> > glider pilots called "A wind dummy." If you know the site pretty well 
> > you can 
> tell 
> > if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the 
> breeze 
> > hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got 
> skunked 
> > and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got 
> > lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting 
> > their gliders assembled. 
> > 
> > Where I'm going with all of this is; I've noticed maybe a couple of 
> > upper layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time 
> > it's pretty 
> high. 
> > I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big 
> parachute 
> > on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the 
> > time 
> but 
> > for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches. 
> > It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big 
> motor, 
> > just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I 
> > just don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor 
> > so ifn the thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics 
> > either. If the 
> club 
> > sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all 
> > use 
> it 
> > when we deemed it necessary. I was thinking of something with a 5" 
> > airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find 
> something 
> > that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some 
> > red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing. 
> > I'm just thinking out loud here. 
> > 
> > Any ideas? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy) 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 

_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
-------------- next part --------------
how about a balloon?
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>, clappfamily at comcast.net
Cc: "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:39:47 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
Well now you're getting away from David's design criteria. ?From what he was saying, sounds like he was thinking something closer to disposable. ?75mm hardware doesn???t fit that, in my mind. ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:25 PM
> To: clappfamily at comcast.net; 'Greg Deputy'
> Cc: 'OROC List'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
> I would think a 75 mm single deploy would be the optimal bird for this. ?It
> would be light enough so the chute does not have to be huge and can reach 20K+
> on an M motor. ?You would need minimal electronics to deploy the chute - a
> timer would do, but an altimeter would be better. ?You would also want to
> install electronic tracking since it is apt to drift a long way.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On
> Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:12 PM
> To: Greg Deputy
> Cc: OROC List
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
>
>
> Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so
> they can test a motor.
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
> To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, "OROC List"
> <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
> Something with a 5" airframe? ?Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in the
> higher wind levels. ?:)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Dave Proffitt
> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM
> > To: OROC List
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
> >
> > Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front
> > window
> at
> > Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically
> > right
> across
> > highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it
> > reminded
> me
> > of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a
> wing
> > span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try
> > and
> get
> > a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington
> called
> > Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in
> > the
> air
> > yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang
> > glider pilots called "A wind dummy." ?If you know the site pretty well
> > you can
> tell
> > if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the
> breeze
> > hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got
> skunked
> > and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got
> > lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting
> > their gliders assembled.
> >
> > Where I'm going with all of this is; ?I've noticed maybe a couple of
> > upper layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time
> > it's pretty
> high.
> > I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big
> parachute
> > on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the
> > time
> but
> > for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches.
> > It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big
> motor,
> > just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I
> > just don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor
> > so ifn the thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics
> > either. If the
> club
> > sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all
> > use
> it
> > when we deemed it necessary. ?I was thinking of something with a 5"
> > airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find
> something
> > that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some
> > red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing.
> > I'm just thinking out loud here.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
??

From clappfamily at comcast.net  Mon Apr 13 14:36:14 2009
From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:36:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
In-Reply-To: <1b6c01c9bc77$fd73e1d0$f85ba570$@com>
Message-ID: <1488980302.1062901239658574372.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



To get to higher altitudes you will need a large motor which could be much of the cost of the flight.?? EX would be the cheapest solution.?? I think disposable isn't really a good option.?? But keeping the cost down in case the rocket is lost would be a smart direction.?? EX with GPS to track and recover sounds like a good direction.?? The GPS would be good to show the wind movements at different levels and allow recovery.?? I'm sure some vendor would be willing to fly hardware.?? It could be used for advertising or for gathering information on new GPS products. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Deputy" < greg @ blastzone .com> 
To: "Marty2" < MartyWeiser @comcast.net>, clappfamily @comcast.net 
Cc: " OROC List" <rockets@ rocketsnw .com> 
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:39:47 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: RE: [ RocketsNW ] Wind Dummy 

Well now you're getting away from David's design criteria. ??From what he was saying, sounds like he was thinking something closer to disposable. ??75mm hardware doesn ???t fit that, in my mind. ?? 

> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Marty2 [mailto: MartyWeiser @comcast.net] 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:25 PM 
> To: clappfamily @comcast.net; 'Greg Deputy' 
> Cc: 'OROC List' 
> Subject: RE: [ RocketsNW ] Wind Dummy 
> 
> I would think a 75 mm single deploy would be the optimal bird for this. ??It 
> would be light enough so the chute does not have to be huge and can reach 20K+ 
> on an M motor. ??You would need minimal electronics to deploy the chute - a 
> timer would do, but an altimeter would be better. ??You would also want to 
> install electronic tracking since it is apt to drift a long way. 
> 
> Marty 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com [mailto:rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com] On 
> Behalf Of clappfamily @comcast.net 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:12 PM 
> To: Greg Deputy 
> Cc: OROC List 
> Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Wind Dummy 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so 
> they can test a motor. 
> 
> 
> 
> Rick 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Deputy" < greg @ blastzone .com> 
> To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, " OROC List" 
> <rockets@ rocketsnw .com> 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
> Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Wind Dummy 
> 
> Something with a 5" airframe? ??Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in the 
> higher wind levels. ??:) 
> 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com 
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com] 
> On 
> > Behalf Of Dave Proffitt 
> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM 
> > To: OROC List 
> > Subject: [ RocketsNW ] Wind Dummy 
> > 
> > Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front 
> > window 
> at 
> > Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically 
> > right 
> across 
> > highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it 
> > reminded 
> me 
> > of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a 
> wing 
> > span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try 
> > and 
> get 
> > a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington 
> called 
> > Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in 
> > the 
> air 
> > yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang 
> > glider pilots called "A wind dummy." ??If you know the site pretty well 
> > you can 
> tell 
> > if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the 
> breeze 
> > hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got 
> skunked 
> > and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got 
> > lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting 
> > their gliders assembled. 
> > 
> > Where I'm going with all of this is; ??I've noticed maybe a couple of 
> > upper layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time 
> > it's pretty 
> high. 
> > I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big 
> parachute 
> > on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the 
> > time 
> but 
> > for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches. 
> > It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big 
> motor, 
> > just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I 
> > just don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor 
> > so ifn the thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics 
> > either. If the 
> club 
> > sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all 
> > use 
> it 
> > when we deemed it necessary. ??I was thinking of something with a 5" 
> > airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find 
> something 
> > that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some 
> > red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing. 
> > I'm just thinking out loud here. 
> > 
> > Any ideas? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy) 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
> http://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 

-------------- next part --------------
To get to higher altitudes you will need a large motor which could be much of the cost of the flight.? EX would be the cheapest solution.? I think disposable isn't really a good option.? But keeping the cost down in case the rocket is lost would be a smart direction.? EX with GPS to track and recover sounds like a good direction.? The GPS would be good to show the wind movements at different levels and allow recovery.? I'm sure some vendor would be willing to fly hardware.? It could be used for advertising or for gathering information on new GPS products.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>, clappfamily at comcast.net
Cc: "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:39:47 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
Well now you're getting away from David's design criteria. ?From what he was saying, sounds like he was thinking something closer to disposable. ?75mm hardware doesn???t fit that, in my mind. ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:25 PM
> To: clappfamily at comcast.net; 'Greg Deputy'
> Cc: 'OROC List'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
> I would think a 75 mm single deploy would be the optimal bird for this. ?It
> would be light enough so the chute does not have to be huge and can reach 20K+
> on an M motor. ?You would need minimal electronics to deploy the chute - a
> timer would do, but an altimeter would be better. ?You would also want to
> install electronic tracking since it is apt to drift a long way.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On
> Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:12 PM
> To: Greg Deputy
> Cc: OROC List
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
>
>
> Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so
> they can test a motor.
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
> To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, "OROC List"
> <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
> Something with a 5" airframe? ?Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in the
> higher wind levels. ?:)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Dave Proffitt
> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM
> > To: OROC List
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
> >
> > Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front
> > window
> at
> > Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically
> > right
> across
> > highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it
> > reminded
> me
> > of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a
> wing
> > span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try
> > and
> get
> > a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington
> called
> > Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in
> > the
> air
> > yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang
> > glider pilots called "A wind dummy." ?If you know the site pretty well
> > you can
> tell
> > if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the
> breeze
> > hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got
> skunked
> > and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got
> > lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting
> > their gliders assembled.
> >
> > Where I'm going with all of this is; ?I've noticed maybe a couple of
> > upper layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time
> > it's pretty
> high.
> > I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big
> parachute
> > on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the
> > time
> but
> > for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches.
> > It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big
> motor,
> > just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I
> > just don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor
> > so ifn the thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics
> > either. If the
> club
> > sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all
> > use
> it
> > when we deemed it necessary. ?I was thinking of something with a 5"
> > airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find
> something
> > that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some
> > red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing.
> > I'm just thinking out loud here.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From clappfamily at comcast.net  Mon Apr 13 14:37:46 2009
From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:37:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
In-Reply-To: <1824449230.1016281239656460719.JavaMail.root@sz0124a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1240704778.1063651239658666872.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



That might be the best solution but maybe not as much fun at a rocket launch.?? ;-) 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net 
To: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com> 
Cc: "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>, clappfamily at comcast.net 
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 2:01:00 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 


how about a balloon? 

Ray 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com> 
To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>, clappfamily at comcast.net 
Cc: "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:39:47 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 

Well now you're getting away from David's design criteria. ??From what he was saying, sounds like he was thinking something closer to disposable. ??75mm hardware doesn???t fit that, in my mind. ?? 

> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:25 PM 
> To: clappfamily at comcast.net; 'Greg Deputy' 
> Cc: 'OROC List' 
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 
> 
> I would think a 75 mm single deploy would be the optimal bird for this. ??It 
> would be light enough so the chute does not have to be huge and can reach 20K+ 
> on an M motor. ??You would need minimal electronics to deploy the chute - a 
> timer would do, but an altimeter would be better. ??You would also want to 
> install electronic tracking since it is apt to drift a long way. 
> 
> Marty 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On 
> Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:12 PM 
> To: Greg Deputy 
> Cc: OROC List 
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so 
> they can test a motor. 
> 
> 
> 
> Rick 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com> 
> To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, "OROC List" 
> <rockets at rocketsnw.com> 
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 
> 
> Something with a 5" airframe? ??Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in the 
> higher wind levels. ??:) 
> 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] 
> On 
> > Behalf Of Dave Proffitt 
> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM 
> > To: OROC List 
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy 
> > 
> > Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front 
> > window 
> at 
> > Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically 
> > right 
> across 
> > highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it 
> > reminded 
> me 
> > of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a 
> wing 
> > span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try 
> > and 
> get 
> > a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington 
> called 
> > Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in 
> > the 
> air 
> > yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang 
> > glider pilots called "A wind dummy." ??If you know the site pretty well 
> > you can 
> tell 
> > if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the 
> breeze 
> > hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got 
> skunked 
> > and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got 
> > lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting 
> > their gliders assembled. 
> > 
> > Where I'm going with all of this is; ??I've noticed maybe a couple of 
> > upper layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time 
> > it's pretty 
> high. 
> > I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big 
> parachute 
> > on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the 
> > time 
> but 
> > for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches. 
> > It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big 
> motor, 
> > just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I 
> > just don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor 
> > so ifn the thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics 
> > either. If the 
> club 
> > sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all 
> > use 
> it 
> > when we deemed it necessary. ??I was thinking of something with a 5" 
> > airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find 
> something 
> > that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some 
> > red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing. 
> > I'm just thinking out loud here. 
> > 
> > Any ideas? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy) 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 

_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
????
-------------- next part --------------
That might be the best solution but maybe not as much fun at a rocket launch.? ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net
To: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
Cc: "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>, "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>, clappfamily at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 2:01:00 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
how about a balloon?
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>, clappfamily at comcast.net
Cc: "OROC List" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:39:47 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
Well now you're getting away from David's design criteria. ?From what he was saying, sounds like he was thinking something closer to disposable. ?75mm hardware doesn???t fit that, in my mind. ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:25 PM
> To: clappfamily at comcast.net; 'Greg Deputy'
> Cc: 'OROC List'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
> I would think a 75 mm single deploy would be the optimal bird for this. ?It
> would be light enough so the chute does not have to be huge and can reach 20K+
> on an M motor. ?You would need minimal electronics to deploy the chute - a
> timer would do, but an altimeter would be better. ?You would also want to
> install electronic tracking since it is apt to drift a long way.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On
> Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:12 PM
> To: Greg Deputy
> Cc: OROC List
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
>
>
> Maybe an Airframe for those EX'ers who are always trying to find a rocket so
> they can test a motor.
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>
> To: "Dave Proffitt" <bigrockets at verizon.net>, "OROC List"
> <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:43:28 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
>
> Something with a 5" airframe? ?Gonna take a lot of G80's to get that up in the
> higher wind levels. ?:)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Dave Proffitt
> > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:22 PM
> > To: OROC List
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
> >
> > Oh no here goes Dave again. I was sitting here looking out my front
> > window
> at
> > Wildcat Mountain. It's real up close and personal being basically
> > right
> across
> > highway 26 from me. I was watching the mist creep up slope and it
> > reminded
> me
> > of my days as a hang glider pilot. We used to plant wind flags about a
> wing
> > span and a half out of the middle of the launch areas so we could try
> > and
> get
> > a "into the wind" launch. I used to fly a place near Morton Washington
> called
> > Dog Mountain. Lots of times we would get up there and no one was in
> > the
> air
> > yet. If it was marginal for soaring nobody wanted to be what hang
> > glider pilots called "A wind dummy." ?If you know the site pretty well
> > you can
> tell
> > if it's soarable or not just by standing at the launch and letting the
> breeze
> > hit you in the face. I did lots of wind dummy stuff. Sometimes I got
> skunked
> > and did a sled ride to the landing area but most of the time I got
> > lots of space to myself as the rest of the crew scrambled getting
> > their gliders assembled.
> >
> > Where I'm going with all of this is; ?I've noticed maybe a couple of
> > upper layer wind patterns at Brothers. Seems like most of the time
> > it's pretty
> high.
> > I was thinking of a wind dummy rocket. Launch this thing with a big
> parachute
> > on it and see where it goes when it comes down. Probably not all the
> > time
> but
> > for certification flights and big, expensive rocket launches.
> > It could be built really cheapo, doesn't have to be CF and have a big
> motor,
> > just something with enough snooze to get it above the wind layers. I
> > just don't know where they are yet. One could use a single use motor
> > so ifn the thing got lost it's no big deal, doesn't need electronics
> > either. If the
> club
> > sprung for the cost of some of the materials for it then we could all
> > use
> it
> > when we deemed it necessary. ?I was thinking of something with a 5"
> > airframe or above. Maybe even use some smoke on it if we could find
> something
> > that wouldn't set things on fire. I'd be willing to paint it with some
> > red neon or a roll pattern of sorts so we could see the damn thing.
> > I'm just thinking out loud here.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Proffitt (retired wind dummy)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
??

From Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com  Mon Apr 13 15:07:28 2009
From: Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com (Peter.T.Ekstrom at jci.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:07:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy
In-Reply-To: <1488980302.1062901239658574372.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <OF13857F0A.E108DB0E-ON88257597.00793305-88257597.007988DC@jci.com>

I've got no problems sending up my hardware in anyone's rocket to act as a
Wind Dummy.  Anyone who wants to volunteer their rocket will find me to be
a very accommodating motor maker.

Peter



                                                                           
             clappfamily at comca                                             
             st.net                                                        
             Sent by:                                                   To 
             rockets-bounces at r         Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com>    
             ocketsnw.com                                               cc 
                                       OROC List <rockets at rocketsnw.com>,  
                                       Marty2 <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>    
             04/13/2009 02:36                                      Subject 
             PM                        Re: [RocketsNW] Wind Dummy          
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           






To get to higher altitudes you will need a large motor which could be much
of the cost of the flight.? EX would be the cheapest solution.? I think
disposable isn't really a good option.? But keeping the cost down in case
the rocket is lost would be a smart direction.? EX with GPS to track and
recover sounds like a good direction.? The GPS would be good to show the
wind movements at different levels and allow recovery.? I'm sure some
vendor would be willing to fly hardware.? It could be used for advertising
or for gathering information on new GPS products.






From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 14 17:16:14 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:16:14 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>


Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons

_________________________________________________________________
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8.
http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
-------------- next part --------------
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.

From appusher at q.com  Tue Apr 14 17:59:06 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:59:06 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W25CE7D66DDD381AD3C9406DC7D0@phx.gbl>


Dave and I'll be there with our Traveling AP Dispensery.

 

Bill at PSP











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 


From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:16:14 -0700
Subject: [WAC-Members] (no subject)



Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons



Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8.
-------------- next part --------------
Dave and I'll be there with our Traveling AP Dispensery.
?
mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:16:14 -0700
Subject: [WAC-Members] (no subject)
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.

From aaronfogg at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 19:10:02 2009
From: aaronfogg at gmail.com (Aaron Fogg)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:10:02 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e1e3ba0b0904141910x45fbea40w4212b3ab6222ac8c@mail.gmail.com>

Rocket Geek checking in.
Hello Mark and gang

Daron and I will be there Thursday afternoon some time. We have talked to
Snell and he said that was just fine.

Aaron

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
> the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
> covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
> thursday.
>
> So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
>
> Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the
> ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the
> winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
>
> Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
>
> Thanks,
> Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
>
> Mark Lyons
> Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with
> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701AInternet Explorer 8.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
Hello Mark and gang
Daron and I will be there Thursday afternoon some time. We have talked to Snell and he said that was just fine.
Aaron
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Mark Lyons
< mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
wrote:
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
Internet Explorer 8.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
?

From sb at berfield.com  Tue Apr 14 19:25:06 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 02:25:06 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
Message-ID: <W62279684223451239762306@webmail33>

I may drive out for a day.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lyons [mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 05:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com,
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)

Howdy fellow rocket geeks!! It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday. So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you? Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help. Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects". Thanks, Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist") Mark Lyons _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
-------------- next part --------------
I may drive out for a day.
-----Original Message-----
From:
Mark Lyons [mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com]
Sent:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 05:16 PM
To:
members at washingtonaerospace.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com,
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject:
[RocketsNW] (no subject)
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!! It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday. So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you? Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help. Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects". Thanks, Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist") Mark Lyons _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Tue Apr 14 19:30:28 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:30:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW:  (no subject)
References: <W62279684223451239762306@webmail33>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A84@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A85@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Okay...so after three attempts I finally found the "reply all" button.
 
Hey...cut me some slack...watching students take the WASL is almost as Brain draining as actually having to take the WASL!

________________________________

From: Schurke, Peter
Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:27 PM
To: Scott Berfield
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] (no subject)


To all:  (I replied to Mark only the first time)
 
I'll be out there with 8-10 of my students from the Pacific Northwest Champion TARC teams at Ingraham H.S.!  I'll be attempting my L2 cert and three of my students will be attempting their L1.
 
The kids are planning to bake a variety of rocket-themed confections and will happily sell them at reasonable prices to raise money for their upcoming trip to nationals.  Bring your appetite (and a little bit of cash....)
 
Pete

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Scott Berfield
Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:25 PM
To: Mark Lyons; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)



I may drive out for a day.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lyons [mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 05:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com,
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)

Howdy fellow rocket geeks!! It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday. So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you? Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help. Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects". Thanks, Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist") Mark Lyons _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A



From carl at mousetrap.com  Tue Apr 14 19:41:56 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:41:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0904141941s540189f5t66fb7c7b1847090f@mail.gmail.com>

Dale Woodford and I will be there!
 - Carl

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
> the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
> covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
> thursday.
>
> So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
?- Carl
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Mark Lyons
< mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
wrote:
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?

From appusher at q.com  Tue Apr 14 19:43:04 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 02:43:04 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW:  (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A85@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <W62279684223451239762306@webmail33>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A84@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> 
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A85@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W15752CDA682DB12D1E1A7DDC7D0@phx.gbl>


Peter,

Tell them to bring alot of them.

Bill









 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:30:28 -0700
> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: (no subject)
> 
> Okay...so after three attempts I finally found the "reply all" button.
> 
> Hey...cut me some slack...watching students take the WASL is almost as Brain draining as actually having to take the WASL!
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:27 PM
> To: Scott Berfield
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> 
> To all: (I replied to Mark only the first time)
> 
> I'll be out there with 8-10 of my students from the Pacific Northwest Champion TARC teams at Ingraham H.S.! I'll be attempting my L2 cert and three of my students will be attempting their L1.
> 
> The kids are planning to bake a variety of rocket-themed confections and will happily sell them at reasonable prices to raise money for their upcoming trip to nationals. Bring your appetite (and a little bit of cash....)
> 
> Pete
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Scott Berfield
> Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:25 PM
> To: Mark Lyons; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> 
> 
> I may drive out for a day.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Lyons [mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 05:16 PM
> To: members at washingtonaerospace.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com,
> bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> Howdy fellow rocket geeks!! It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday. So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you? Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help. Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects". Thanks, Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist") Mark Lyons _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
Peter,
Tell them to bring alot of them.
Bill
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:30:28 -0700
> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: (no subject)
>
> Okay...so after three attempts I finally found the "reply all" button.
>
> Hey...cut me some slack...watching students take the WASL is almost as Brain draining as actually having to take the WASL!
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:27 PM
> To: Scott Berfield
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
>
>
> To all: (I replied to Mark only the first time)
>
> I'll be out there with 8-10 of my students from the Pacific Northwest Champion TARC teams at Ingraham H.S.! I'll be attempting my L2 cert and three of my students will be attempting their L1.
>
> The kids are planning to bake a variety of rocket-themed confections and will happily sell them at reasonable prices to raise money for their upcoming trip to nationals. Bring your appetite (and a little bit of cash....)
>
> Pete
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Scott Berfield
> Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:25 PM
> To: Mark Lyons; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
>
>
>
> I may drive out for a day.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Lyons [mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 05:16 PM
> To: members at washingtonaerospace.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com,
> bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
>
> Howdy fellow rocket geeks!! It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday. So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you? Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help. Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects". Thanks, Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist") Mark Lyons _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Tue Apr 14 20:05:19 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:05:19 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW:  (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A85@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <W62279684223451239762306@webmail33>	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A84@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A85@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <020701c9bd77$035af3e0$0a10dba0$@net>

Peter - I always liked to listen music with head phones when administering
examines.  My favorite was ELP - Brain Salad Surgery, particularly when one
of the students got the pun. - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:30 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: (no subject)

Okay...so after three attempts I finally found the "reply all" button.
 
Hey...cut me some slack...watching students take the WASL is almost as Brain
draining as actually having to take the WASL!

________________________________

From: Schurke, Peter
Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:27 PM
To: Scott Berfield
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] (no subject)


To all:  (I replied to Mark only the first time)
 
I'll be out there with 8-10 of my students from the Pacific Northwest
Champion TARC teams at Ingraham H.S.!  I'll be attempting my L2 cert and
three of my students will be attempting their L1.
 
The kids are planning to bake a variety of rocket-themed confections and
will happily sell them at reasonable prices to raise money for their
upcoming trip to nationals.  Bring your appetite (and a little bit of
cash....)
 
Pete

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Scott Berfield
Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:25 PM
To: Mark Lyons; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)



I may drive out for a day.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lyons [mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 05:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com,
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)

Howdy fellow rocket geeks!! It's time for WAC's first launch of the season.
The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th
+ 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a
rough head count by, say, thursday. So... who's coming, and how many are you
bringing with you? Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in
amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry
from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
Thanks, Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
Mark Lyons _________________________________________________________________
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
Explorer 8.
http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN
55C0701A


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Tue Apr 14 20:06:35 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:06:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW:  (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU145-W15752CDA682DB12D1E1A7DDC7D0@phx.gbl>
References: <W62279684223451239762306@webmail33>	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A84@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A85@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<BLU145-W15752CDA682DB12D1E1A7DDC7D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <020801c9bd77$3060d4e0$91227ea0$@net>

Bill - So what is the current exchange rate between AP and TARC confections?
- Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:43 PM
To: Peter Schurke; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: (no subject)


Peter,

Tell them to bring alot of them.

Bill









 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:30:28 -0700
> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: (no subject)
> 
> Okay...so after three attempts I finally found the "reply all" button.
> 
> Hey...cut me some slack...watching students take the WASL is almost as
Brain draining as actually having to take the WASL!
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:27 PM
> To: Scott Berfield
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> 
> To all: (I replied to Mark only the first time)
> 
> I'll be out there with 8-10 of my students from the Pacific Northwest
Champion TARC teams at Ingraham H.S.! I'll be attempting my L2 cert and
three of my students will be attempting their L1.
> 
> The kids are planning to bake a variety of rocket-themed confections 
> and will happily sell them at reasonable prices to raise money for 
> their upcoming trip to nationals. Bring your appetite (and a little 
> bit of cash....)
> 
> Pete
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of Scott Berfield
> Sent: Tue 4/14/2009 7:25 PM
> To: Mark Lyons; members at washingtonaerospace.org; 
> rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> 
> 
> I may drive out for a day.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Lyons [mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 05:16 PM
> To: members at washingtonaerospace.org, rockets at rocketsnw.com, 
> bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> Howdy fellow rocket geeks!! It's time for WAC's first launch of the 
> season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and 
> Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the 
> porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday. 
> So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you? Also a 
> reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. 
> I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, 
> so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help. Looking forward 
> to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects". Thanks, Your 
> Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist") Mark 
> Lyons 
> _________________________________________________________________ 
> Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with 
> Internet Explorer 8. 
> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B
> 037MSN55C0701A
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From mkquinn at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 20:55:15 2009
From: mkquinn at gmail.com (Mark Quinn)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:55:15 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5a1085980904142055t12c15e9cncd515de4152daff@mail.gmail.com>

My wife and I will be there on Friday. Can't wait to stretch my L1 wings.

Mark Q
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Mark Lyons <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
> the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
> covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
> thursday.
>
> So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
>
> Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the
> ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the
> winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
>
> Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
>
> Thanks,
> Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
>
> Mark Lyons
> Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with
> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701AInternet Explorer 8.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
My wife and I will be there on Friday. Can't wait to stretch my L1 wings.
?
Mark Q
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Mark Lyons
< mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
>
wrote:
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
Internet Explorer 8.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
?

From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net  Tue Apr 14 21:27:57 2009
From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (Bryan Whitemarsh)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:27:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0EE1357CACF74FC7A31E2DE34D32A966@BryanPC>

I'll be there along with 2 or three from the family.
 
Bryan Whitemarsh
 

  _____  

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org
[mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: [WAC-Members] (no subject)


Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS.
I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons


  _____  

Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
Explorer 8.
<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MS
N55C0701A>  
-------------- next part --------------
I'll be there along with 2 or three from the family.
?
Bryan Whitemarsh
?
From:
members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org]
On Behalf Of
Mark Lyons
Sent:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To:
members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject:
[WAC-Members] (no subject)
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.

From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Tue Apr 14 21:40:22 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:40:22 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <319E2BED6A104E19B188611948DFCD9C@DellNotebook>

We're gonna try to be there Sunday morning to squeeeeeze off a few; 3 of us

john

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)


Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS.
I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons

_________________________________________________________________
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
Explorer 8.
http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN
55C0701A


From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Tue Apr 14 21:57:43 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:57:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I
	Inspector)LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today, Code vs. Law
In-Reply-To: <5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2><a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair><c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com><e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
Message-ID: <AE81A454665345738C383C443380E17F@DellNotebook>

Many codes are not written by governmental authorities. The many volumes of
the NFPA are adopted by AHJ's. The actual law is not the text of the code
but the requirement to abide by it.
Electrical codes as my example, you can download the full version of the
Washington Administrative Code (WAC) and the Revised Code of Washington
(RCW)that make up the actual state law and codes. The NFPA volumes that the
WAC and RCW's refer to are still carefully guarded copyrights, reprinted
with permission and must be purchased.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:41 AM
To: Carl Hamilton
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I
Inspector)LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today

The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there  
really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.


On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:

> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/ 
> documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/ 
> ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> .
> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web.  
> You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look  
> at section
> 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines  
> of:
> The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall  
> comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give  
> the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
>  - Carl
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Brad Wright
> < mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com bradwr at wrightholdings.com
>>
> wrote:
> In my searches I couldn't seem to find anything specific to APCP or  
> other such substances in the King County fire code.  do you have a  
> reference?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> ] On Behalf Of mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
> To: Dennis Winningstad
> Cc: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)  
> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
> Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
> reference the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far  
> as
> regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep  
> the
> fire marshal happy.  Especially in places like King county.
> Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to  
> storing
> stuff they consider darn flammable.
> +McG+
>> Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so  
>> when it is
>> time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails and
>> phone
>> calls :D
>>
>> Dennis S Winningstad
>> 503-781-3529
>>
>> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> ]
>> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
>> To: Brian Jarchow; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
>> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>>
>> I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we  
>> "wait
>> and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
>> completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them  
>> that
>> chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
>>
>> I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
>> our government that currently there are several people in the state  
>> with
>> explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE  
>> says
>> so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there  
>> will
>> be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
>>
>> steve bloom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *********************************
>> We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need  
>> to
>> fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
>> legislative authority.
>>
>> I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
>> list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
>> friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
>> members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
>> really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From dennys at carnitech.net  Tue Apr 14 21:56:20 2009
From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:56:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3414880C-B2D6-4EF1-BD9A-50A626365E99@carnitech.net>

Probably just me.

-Denny



Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 14, 2009, at 5:16 PM, "Mark Lyons" <rocfish74 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be  
> held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To  
> be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough  
> head count by, say, thursday.
>
> So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
>
> Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the  
> ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from  
> the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
>
> Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
>
> Thanks,
> Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
>
> Mark Lyons
>
> Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with  
> Internet Explorer 8.
> _______________________________________________
> members mailing list
> members at washingtonaerospace.org
> http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org
-------------- next part --------------
Probably just me.?
-Denny
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 14, 2009, at 5:16 PM, "Mark Lyons" < mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
> wrote:
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.
_______________________________________________
members mailing list
mailto:members at washingtonaerospace.org members at washingtonaerospace.org
http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org

From greg at blastzone.com  Tue Apr 14 22:34:50 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:34:50 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <028701c9bd8b$e61f13f0$b25d3bd0$@com>

I'll be there with 1 or 2 family members.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Mark Lyons
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
> To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
> bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> 
> Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
the
> Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
covered
> for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
thursday.
> 
> So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
> 
> Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the
ROCKETS. I
> was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
> little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
> 
> Thanks,
> Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
> 
> Mark Lyons
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
> Explorer 8.
> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-
> us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A


From kstormo at moscow.com  Tue Apr 14 22:57:33 2009
From: kstormo at moscow.com (Keith and Mary Stormo)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:57:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I
 Inspector)LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today, Code vs. Law
In-Reply-To: <AE81A454665345738C383C443380E17F@DellNotebook>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com>
	<6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
	<AE81A454665345738C383C443380E17F@DellNotebook>
Message-ID: <0KI40058GOJUEXZC@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>

Many Fire departments and both my  nearby university safety offices 
have current versions of the NFPA including rocketry and fireworks 
sections and have let me read them and take notes.  No photocopies though.

The current ones are quite different than the available on-line old versions.

Keith



At 09:57 PM 4/14/2009, John Armitage wrote:
>Many codes are not written by governmental authorities. The many volumes of
>the NFPA are adopted by AHJ's. The actual law is not the text of the code
>but the requirement to abide by it.
>Electrical codes as my example, you can download the full version of the
>Washington Administrative Code (WAC) and the Revised Code of Washington
>(RCW)that make up the actual state law and codes. The NFPA volumes that the
>WAC and RCW's refer to are still carefully guarded copyrights, reprinted
>with permission and must be purchased.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read
>Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:41 AM
>To: Carl Hamilton
>Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I
>Inspector)LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>
>The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there
>really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
>
>
>On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
>
> > http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
> > documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
>http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
> > ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> > .
> > The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web.
> > You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look
> > at section
> > 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines
> > of:
> > The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall
> > comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
> > The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give
> > the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
> >  - Carl
> > On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Brad Wright
> > < mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com bradwr at wrightholdings.com
> >>
> > wrote:
> > In my searches I couldn't seem to find anything specific to APCP or
> > other such substances in the King County fire code.  do you have a
> > reference?
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > ] On Behalf Of mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
>kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
> > To: Dennis Winningstad
> > Cc: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
> > LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
> > Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
> > reference the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far
> > as
> > regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep
> > the
> > fire marshal happy.  Especially in places like King county.
> > Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to
> > storing
> > stuff they consider darn flammable.
> > +McG+
> >> Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so
> >> when it is
> >> time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails and
> >> phone
> >> calls :D
> >>
> >> Dennis S Winningstad
> >> 503-781-3529
> >>
> >> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > ]
> >> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
> >> To: Brian Jarchow; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
> >> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
> >>
> >> I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we
> >> "wait
> >> and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
> >> completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them
> >> that
> >> chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
> >>
> >> I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
> >> our government that currently there are several people in the state
> >> with
> >> explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE
> >> says
> >> so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there
> >> will
> >> be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
> >>
> >> steve bloom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *********************************
> >> We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need
> >> to
> >> fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
> >> legislative authority.
> >>
> >> I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
> >> list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
> >> friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
> >> members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
> >> really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rockets mailing list
>Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>


From bwhitemarsh at comcast.net  Tue Apr 14 23:20:20 2009
From: bwhitemarsh at comcast.net (Bryan Whitemarsh)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:20:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F1AE4C6761D743BEBA44B3536579358F@BryanPC>

By the way, have we heard anything about the waivers for April and FITS yet?
They were still up in the air as of last meeting.
Bryan Whitemarsh

  _____  

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org
[mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: [WAC-Members] (no subject)


Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS.
I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons


  _____  

Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
Explorer 8.
<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MS
N55C0701A>  
-------------- next part --------------
By the way, have we heard anything about the waivers for April and FITS yet?? They were still up in the air?as of last meeting.
Bryan Whitemarsh
From:
members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org]
On Behalf Of
Mark Lyons
Sent:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To:
members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject:
[WAC-Members] (no subject)
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.

From appusher at q.com  Tue Apr 14 23:25:44 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 06:25:44 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <028701c9bd8b$e61f13f0$b25d3bd0$@com>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
	<028701c9bd8b$e61f13f0$b25d3bd0$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W35CB0C6BA44150ABB30C9ADC7D0@phx.gbl>


Greg, I thought you were just an email/webserver/web wookie....the man behind the curtain.  Great to have you come fly with us.  Stop by the AP Dispensery

for a story or two and an adult beverage.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: greg at blastzone.com
> To: rocfish74 at hotmail.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:34:50 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> I'll be there with 1 or 2 family members.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Mark Lyons
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
> > To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
> > bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> > 
> > 
> > Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> > It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
> the
> > Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
> covered
> > for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
> thursday.
> > 
> > So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
> > 
> > Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the
> ROCKETS. I
> > was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
> > little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
> > 
> > Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
> > 
> > Mark Lyons
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
> > Explorer 8.
> > http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-
> > us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
Greg, I thought you were just an email/webserver/web wookie....the man behind the curtain.? Great to have you come fly with us.? Stop by the AP Dispensery
for a story or two and an adult beverage.
?
Bill
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> From: greg at blastzone.com
> To: rocfish74 at hotmail.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:34:50 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
>
> I'll be there with 1 or 2 family members.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Mark Lyons
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
> > To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
> > bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> >
> >
> > Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> > It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
> the
> > Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
> covered
> > for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
> thursday.
> >
> > So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
> >
> > Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the
> ROCKETS. I
> > was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
> > little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
> >
> > Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
> >
> > Mark Lyons
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
> > Explorer 8.
> > http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-
> > us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Wed Apr 15 00:28:01 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:28:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
 LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net>
	<073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com>
	<6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2>
	<a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com>
	<355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com>
	<D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair>
	<c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b0350e3615372d340b4725386f3d997c.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

It's called "adoption by reference."  In this case, twice removed.

But for rocketeers, in a nutshell it means you've got to follow the NFPA
codes to be legal, not just in compliance with NAR and TRA bylaws.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but knowledge costs money.  Which I
guess means that not having money is inexcusable.  ;-)
+McG+


> You can't find any references in the King County fire code because the
> fire
> code is structured like this: we adopt the International Fire Code 2006
> Edition with a bunch of amendments. This is spelled out in section
> 17.04.010
> of this document:
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> .
> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web. You
> should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look at
> section 3301.1.4,
> titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines of: The storage,
> handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall comply with the
> requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
>
> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give the
> local
> fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
>
>  - Carl
>
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Brad Wright
> <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>wrote:
>
>> In my searches I couldn't seem to find anything specific to APCP or
>> other
>> such substances in the King County fire code.  do you have a reference?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
>> To: Dennis Winningstad
>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
>> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>>
>> Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
>> reference the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far as
>> regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep the
>> fire marshal happy.  Especially in places like King county.
>>
>> Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to storing
>> stuff they consider darn flammable.
>> +McG+
>>
>>
>> > Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so when
>> it
>> is
>> > time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails and
>> > phone
>> > calls :D
>> >
>> > Dennis S Winningstad
>> > 503-781-3529
>> >
>> > It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:
>> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
>> > To: Brian Jarchow; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
>> > LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>> >
>> > I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we "wait
>> > and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
>> > completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them
>> that
>> > chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
>> >
>> > I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out to
>> > our government that currently there are several people in the state
>> with
>> > explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE
>> says
>> > so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there will
>> > be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
>> >
>> > steve bloom
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *********************************
>> > We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need to
>> > fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
>> > legislative authority.
>> >
>> > I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on the
>> > list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
>> > friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
>> > members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
>> > really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
>> >
>> > Brian
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rockets mailing list
>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Wed Apr 15 01:01:52 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:01:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Subject: Re:  IGNITERS
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090411122044.00c2ba10@mail.iinet.com>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20090411122044.00c2ba10@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <3aa7203a423aacdf394d2520438981fc.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

I used Al/MnO2 as a propellant because of the volume of vaporized
manganese it produced.  Almost all the manganese metal reaction product is
in vapor form creating a propellant of roughly Zn/S performance.  That
probably makes it a poorer choice for ignition composition--what you want
there is a little bit of gas and a lot of hot sparks that stick to or burn
into the material to be ignited.  And in fact packed powder Al/MnO2
consistently failed to ignite unprimed visco fuse at the head end of
endburning motors.  Not a sufficiently sustained application of heat.

Replacing the aluminum with magnesium would permit the use of much larger
particle size for the metal.  Indeed, it would have required it.  Particle
sizes remaining constant, using magnesium in place of aluminum in
thermites will in general make the composition much more explosive-like in
functioning.  And magnesium costs more although that's not a significant
factor for the small quantities needed for igniting motors.

Adding zirconium to copper thermite as mentioned in another post is a
better strategy.

I once thought that an igniter that produced a good volume of magnesium
metal vapor would be ideal.  Later I realized that an igniter that throws
off sparks that both stick to the propellant surface and chemically react
with it was a better way to go.  Multiple focused points of heat and
reaction versus trying to ignite a large surface area.  Especially for
those AP motors with very small nozzle throats igniter design is mostly
about energy density per cm3 than anything else.  Zirconium has a great
combination of ignitability, density, and combustion temperature.
+McG+


> 	I have also looked at MnO2 - Al thermite as opposed to CuO based
> thermite.  While MnO2 - Al is definitely hotter than CuO - Al
> thermite,  MnO2 - Al thermite displays rapid expansion characteristics
> that
> can be confused with explosive as the reaction temperature is above the
> boiling point of both Aluminum and Al2O3 so it throws its toys from the
> pram as they say.  Straight MnO2 - Mg thermite is something I have not
> tried but by the math the predicted heat of reaction should be
> materially  higher, the gas production much reduced and the expansion
> minimal due to the high boiling point of MgO.  But as with many things
> concerning fine Mg it's probably not safe for some obscure reason.  I was
> most surprised to learn for example that an uncured NH4ClO4 - Mg mix
> develops an exothermic potential to the point of a serious risk of
> spontaneous ignition if there is any water or water vapor around.  Not
> good.  So I try and avoid Mg whenever possible.  That's probably why it's
> nearly impossible to get Mg to the point it can only be shipped LTL.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Wed Apr 15 07:27:48 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:27:48 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3414880C-B2D6-4EF1-BD9A-50A626365E99@carnitech.net>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
	<3414880C-B2D6-4EF1-BD9A-50A626365E99@carnitech.net>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209909E146@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>

I'm there solo as well.

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Denny Smith
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:56 PM
To: Mark Lyons
Cc: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] (no subject)

Probably just me.

-Denny



Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 14, 2009, at 5:16 PM, "Mark Lyons" <rocfish74 at hotmail.com<mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.

So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?

Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.

Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".

Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")

Mark Lyons
________________________________
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8.<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A>
_______________________________________________
members mailing list
members at washingtonaerospace.org<mailto:members at washingtonaerospace.org>
http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org
-------------- next part --------------
I'm there solo as well.
?
From:
members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org]
On Behalf Of
Denny Smith
Sent:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:56 PM
To:
Mark Lyons
Cc:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org
Subject:
Re: [WAC-Members] (no subject)
?
Probably just me.?
?
-Denny
?
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 14, 2009, at 5:16 PM, "Mark Lyons" < mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com rocfish74 at hotmail.com
> wrote:
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.
_______________________________________________
members mailing list
mailto:members at washingtonaerospace.org members at washingtonaerospace.org
http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org

From absworld at cet.com  Wed Apr 15 07:23:54 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 07:23:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00d501c9bdd5$ce77a100$6b66e300$@com>

Folks must be AP starved to reply to a no subject message ;-)

 

I'm not ready, nor do I expect to be ready, but I do plan on arriving Friday
afternoon with high hopes of good weather, good flights, and good company.

I suppose 1 out of 3 isn't bad but I'm hoping for more.

 

Personal opinion: Rakes work better than shovels for fire suppression but
any/all tools (including boots over sandals) are good.

 

I'll be a party of one along with multiple members of the DAWG pack.

 

boberT

 

From: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
[mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: 

 

Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS.
I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons

  _____  

Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
Explorer 8.
<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MS
N55C0701A> 
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"The Blue Mountain Rocketeers" group. 
To post to this group, send email to bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

 

-------------- next part --------------
Folks must be AP starved to reply to a no subject message ;-)
?
I???m not ready, nor do I expect to be ready, but I do plan on arriving Friday afternoon with high hopes of good weather, good flights, and good company.
I suppose 1 out of 3 isn???t bad but I???m hoping for more.
?
Personal opinion: Rakes work better than shovels for fire suppression but any/all tools (including boots over sandals) are good.
?
I???ll be a party of one along with multiple members of the DAWG pack.
?
boberT
?
From:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com [mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of
Mark Lyons
Sent:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To:
members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject:
?
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Blue Mountain Rocketeers" group.
To post to this group, send email to mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:bluemountainrocketeers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bluemountainrocketeers?hl=en http://groups.google.com/group/bluemountainrocketeers?hl=en
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?
-------------- next part --------------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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From dennys at carnitech.net  Wed Apr 15 08:02:25 2009
From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:02:25 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <028701c9bd8b$e61f13f0$b25d3bd0$@com>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
	<028701c9bd8b$e61f13f0$b25d3bd0$@com>
Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051088820A@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>

Wow, Greg!  This is almost becoming a regular habit for you again.

-D


-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:35 PM
To: 'Mark Lyons'; members at washingtonaerospace.org;
rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)

I'll be there with 1 or 2 family members.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Mark Lyons
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
> To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
> bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> 
> Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be
held at
the
> Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
covered
> for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
thursday.
> 
> So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
> 
> Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the
ROCKETS. I
> was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so
evey
> little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
> 
> Thanks,
> Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
> 
> Mark Lyons
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with
Internet
> Explorer 8.
> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-
> us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From kent.newman at comcast.net  Wed Apr 15 08:09:31 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:09:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <028701c9bd8b$e61f13f0$b25d3bd0$@com>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
	<028701c9bd8b$e61f13f0$b25d3bd0$@com>
Message-ID: <000101c9bddc$2e9521b0$8bbf6510$@newman@comcast.net>

Which one will you launch?

K

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:35 PM
To: 'Mark Lyons'; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)

I'll be there with 1 or 2 family members.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Mark Lyons
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
> To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
> bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> 
> Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
the
> Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
covered
> for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
thursday.
> 
> So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
> 
> Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the
ROCKETS. I
> was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
> little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
> 
> Thanks,
> Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
> 
> Mark Lyons
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
> Explorer 8.
> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-
> us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From kent.newman at comcast.net  Wed Apr 15 08:13:19 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:13:19 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield
In-Reply-To: <00d501c9bdd5$ce77a100$6b66e300$@com>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
	<00d501c9bdd5$ce77a100$6b66e300$@com>
Message-ID: <000201c9bddc$b62ee070$228ca150$@newman@comcast.net>

Let me piggyback onto Bob's comment on rakes.   If you can only bring one
implement, please bring a rake (mark it, too).   Best if you can bring a
rake, a shovel and a weed sprayer.

 

Kent

 

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org
[mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Bob & Ann
Yanecek
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:24 AM
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com;
members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield

 

Folks must be AP starved to reply to a no subject message ;-)

 

I'm not ready, nor do I expect to be ready, but I do plan on arriving Friday
afternoon with high hopes of good weather, good flights, and good company.

I suppose 1 out of 3 isn't bad but I'm hoping for more.

 

Personal opinion: Rakes work better than shovels for fire suppression but
any/all tools (including boots over sandals) are good.

 

I'll be a party of one along with multiple members of the DAWG pack.

 

boberT

 

From: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
[mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: 

 

Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS.
I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons

  _____  

Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
Explorer 8.
<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MS
N55C0701A> 
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"The Blue Mountain Rocketeers" group. 
To post to this group, send email to bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
bluemountainrocketeers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com 
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/bluemountainrocketeers?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

 

-------------- next part --------------
Let me piggyback onto Bob???s comment on rakes. If you can only bring one implement, please bring a rake (mark it, too). Best if you can bring a rake, a shovel and a weed sprayer.
?
Kent
?
From:
members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org]
On Behalf Of
Bob & Ann Yanecek
Sent:
Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:24 AM
To:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject:
Re: [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield
?
Folks must be AP starved to reply to a no subject message ;-)
?
I???m not ready, nor do I expect to be ready, but I do plan on arriving Friday afternoon with high hopes of good weather, good flights, and good company.
I suppose 1 out of 3 isn???t bad but I???m hoping for more.
?
Personal opinion: Rakes work better than shovels for fire suppression but any/all tools (including boots over sandals) are good.
?
I???ll be a party of one along with multiple members of the DAWG pack.
?
boberT
?
From:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com [mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of
Mark Lyons
Sent:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To:
members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject:
?
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Blue Mountain Rocketeers" group.
To post to this group, send email to mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:bluemountainrocketeers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bluemountainrocketeers?hl=en http://groups.google.com/group/bluemountainrocketeers?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
?

From dennys at carnitech.net  Wed Apr 15 08:48:39 2009
From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:48:39 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield
In-Reply-To: <000201c9bddc$b62ee070$228ca150$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl><00d501c9bdd5$ce77a100$6b66e300$@com>
	<000201c9bddc$b62ee070$228ca150$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE200510888219@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>

I'm planning on drinking lots of liquids, so I'll be ready for any fires
this time J

 

-D

 

From: Kent Newman [mailto:kent.newman at comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:13 AM
To: 'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com;
members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield

 

Let me piggyback onto Bob's comment on rakes.   If you can only bring
one implement, please bring a rake (mark it, too).   Best if you can
bring a rake, a shovel and a weed sprayer.

 

Kent

 

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org
[mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Bob & Ann
Yanecek
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:24 AM
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com;
members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield

 

Folks must be AP starved to reply to a no subject message ;-)

 

I'm not ready, nor do I expect to be ready, but I do plan on arriving
Friday afternoon with high hopes of good weather, good flights, and good
company.

I suppose 1 out of 3 isn't bad but I'm hoping for more.

 

Personal opinion: Rakes work better than shovels for fire suppression
but any/all tools (including boots over sandals) are good.

 

I'll be a party of one along with multiple members of the DAWG pack.

 

boberT

 

From: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
[mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: 

 

Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held
at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure
we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count
by, say, thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the
ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the
winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons

________________________________

Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
Explorer 8.
<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B0
37MSN55C0701A> 
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "The Blue Mountain Rocketeers" group. 
To post to this group, send email to
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com 
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
bluemountainrocketeers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com 
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/bluemountainrocketeers?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

 

-------------- next part --------------
I???m planning on drinking lots of liquids, so I???ll be ready for any fires this time
J
?
-D
?
From:
Kent Newman [mailto:kent.newman at comcast.net]
Sent:
Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:13 AM
To:
'Bob & Ann Yanecek'; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject:
Re: [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield
?
Let me piggyback onto Bob???s comment on rakes. If you can only bring one implement, please bring a rake (mark it, too). Best if you can bring a rake, a shovel and a weed sprayer.
?
Kent
?
From:
members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org]
On Behalf Of
Bob & Ann Yanecek
Sent:
Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:24 AM
To:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject:
Re: [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield
?
Folks must be AP starved to reply to a no subject message ;-)
?
I???m not ready, nor do I expect to be ready, but I do plan on arriving Friday afternoon with high hopes of good weather, good flights, and good company.
I suppose 1 out of 3 isn???t bad but I???m hoping for more.
?
Personal opinion: Rakes work better than shovels for fire suppression but any/all tools (including boots over sandals) are good.
?
I???ll be a party of one along with multiple members of the DAWG pack.
?
boberT
?
From:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com [mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of
Mark Lyons
Sent:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To:
members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject:
?
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Blue Mountain Rocketeers" group.
To post to this group, send email to mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:bluemountainrocketeers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com bluemountainrocketeers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bluemountainrocketeers?hl=en http://groups.google.com/group/bluemountainrocketeers?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
?

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Wed Apr 15 11:23:52 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:23:52 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209909E146@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>	<3414880C-B2D6-4EF1-BD9A-50A626365E99@carnitech.net>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE209909E146@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <000001c9bdf7$54ed4f20$fec7ed60$@net>

Wedding coming up, Brad away for the weekend, Red and home - sounds like small and simple may not happen.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Brad Wright
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:28 AM
To: Denny Smith; Mark Lyons
Cc: members at washingtonaerospace.org; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)

I'm there solo as well.

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Denny Smith
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:56 PM
To: Mark Lyons
Cc: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] (no subject)

Probably just me.

-Denny



Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 14, 2009, at 5:16 PM, "Mark Lyons" <rocfish74 at hotmail.com<mailto:rocfish74 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.

So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?

Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.

Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".

Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")

Mark Lyons
________________________________
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8.<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A>
_______________________________________________
members mailing list
members at washingtonaerospace.org<mailto:members at washingtonaerospace.org>
http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org


From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net  Wed Apr 15 11:40:10 2009
From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:40:10 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <F1AE4C6761D743BEBA44B3536579358F@BryanPC>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
	<F1AE4C6761D743BEBA44B3536579358F@BryanPC>
Message-ID: <00d901c9bdf9$9baaacd0$d3000670$@net>

Both of the waivers have been approved.  The Snell Ranch waiver is being
reviewed by AST and I got the Sportsman's club waiver in email today.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bryan Whitemarsh
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 11:20 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] (no subject)

By the way, have we heard anything about the waivers for April and FITS yet?
They were still up in the air as of last meeting.
Bryan Whitemarsh

  _____  

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org
[mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: [WAC-Members] (no subject)


Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at
the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS.
I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey
little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons


  _____  

Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet
Explorer 8.
<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MS
N55C0701A>  


From greg at blastzone.com  Wed Apr 15 12:20:20 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:20:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051088820A@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
	<028701c9bd8b$e61f13f0$b25d3bd0$@com>
	<4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051088820A@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>
Message-ID: <058001c9bdff$3882dbe0$a98893a0$@com>

I'm trying.  If I don't exercise my physical form, I might forget how.  :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Denny Smith [mailto:dennys at carnitech.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:02 AM
> To: Greg Deputy; Mark Lyons; members at washingtonaerospace.org;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> Wow, Greg!  This is almost becoming a regular habit for you again.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:35 PM
> To: 'Mark Lyons'; members at washingtonaerospace.org;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> 
> I'll be there with 1 or 2 family members.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Mark Lyons
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
> > To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com;
> > bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] (no subject)
> >
> >
> > Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
> > It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be
> held at
> the
> > Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're
> covered
> > for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say,
> thursday.
> >
> > So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
> >
> > Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the
> ROCKETS. I
> > was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so
> evey
> > little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
> >
> > Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
> >
> > Mark Lyons
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with
> Internet
> > Explorer 8.
> > http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-
> > us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 15 16:20:55 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:20:55 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield
In-Reply-To: <00d501c9bdd5$ce77a100$6b66e300$@com>
References: <BLU135-W3855626599D58832418D4EA67D0@phx.gbl>
	<00d501c9bdd5$ce77a100$6b66e300$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W1667F105BBF99C815269ABA67D0@phx.gbl>


O.K. DOH! There is a subject this time.

 

The potties are ordered. Thank you all for the replies to my post.

I have heard that the waivers are nearly in hand.

 

Rakes, shovels,weed sprayers. Hmm,is this a Rocket club or a Gardening group? :) Yes, those who can, please bring these items. Or at least one. Makes for a larger scramble to the fire.
 

 

Mark Lyons

 

Sacrificial 1st Launch of the year Director


From: absworld at cet.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 07:23:54 -0700
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield







Folks must be AP starved to reply to a no subject message ;-)
 
I?m not ready, nor do I expect to be ready, but I do plan on arriving Friday afternoon with high hopes of good weather, good flights, and good company.
I suppose 1 out of 3 isn?t bad but I?m hoping for more.
 
Personal opinion: Rakes work better than shovels for fire suppression but any/all tools (including boots over sandals) are good.
 
I?ll be a party of one along with multiple members of the DAWG pack.
 
boberT
 


From: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com [mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To: members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject: 
 
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
 
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
 
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
 
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
 
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
 
Mark Lyons



Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8.
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To post to this group, send email to bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com 
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bluemountainrocketeers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com 
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-------------- next part --------------
O.K.?DOH! There is a subject this time.
?
The potties are ordered. Thank you all for the replies to my post.
I have heard that the waivers are nearly in hand.
?
Rakes, shovels,weed sprayers. Hmm,is this a Rocket club or a Gardening group? :) Yes, those who can, please bring these items. Or at least one. Makes for a larger scramble to the fire.
?
?
Mark Lyons
?
Sacrificial 1st Launch of the year Director
From: absworld at cet.com
To: bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 07:23:54 -0700
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] ROCKETS with Mark at Mansfield
Folks must be AP starved to reply to a no subject message ;-)
?
I?m not ready, nor do I expect to be ready, but I do plan on arriving Friday afternoon with high hopes of good weather, good flights, and good company.
I suppose 1 out of 3 isn?t bad but I?m hoping for more.
?
Personal opinion: Rakes work better than shovels for fire suppression but any/all tools (including boots over sandals) are good.
?
I?ll be a party of one along with multiple members of the DAWG pack.
?
boberT
?
From:
bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com [mailto:bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of
Mark Lyons
Sent:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 5:16 PM
To:
members at washingtonaerospace.org; rockets at rocketsnw.com; bluemountainrocketeers at googlegroups.com
Subject:
?
Howdy fellow rocket geeks!!
It's time for WAC's first launch of the season. The launch will be held at the Snell ranch site on Sat. and Sun. April 25th + 26th. To be sure we're covered for the porta-potties, I'd like to get a rough head count by, say, thursday.
?
So... who's coming, and how many are you bringing with you?
?
Also a reminder to bring shovels if you can pack one in amongst the ROCKETS. I was at the site a week ago. It's still pretty dry from the winter, so evey little bit of firefighting equipt. will help.
?
Looking forward to seeing you all again and all the "winter projects".
?
Thanks,
Your Humble Launch Director ( a.k.a. "toilet procurment specalist")
?
Mark Lyons
Quick access to Windows Live and your favorite MSN content with http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A Internet Explorer 8.
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From terry at mooreread.com  Wed Apr 15 18:25:14 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:25:14 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I
	Inspector)LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today, Code vs. Law
In-Reply-To: <AE81A454665345738C383C443380E17F@DellNotebook>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2><a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair><c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com><e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
	<AE81A454665345738C383C443380E17F@DellNotebook>
Message-ID: <58110931-93EE-494F-925F-91DE73C8BD20@mooreread.com>

The case decided by the supreme court was over the uniform building  
codes.     It was decided that once the codes are adopted into law (by  
reference or otherwise)  that copying cannot be restricted.    It  
makes sense - you can't pass a law and then tell people they have to  
pay if they want to know what it says.


On Apr 14, 2009, at 9:57 PM, John Armitage wrote:

> Many codes are not written by governmental authorities. The many  
> volumes of
> the NFPA are adopted by AHJ's. The actual law is not the text of the  
> code
> but the requirement to abide by it.
> Electrical codes as my example, you can download the full version of  
> the
> Washington Administrative Code (WAC) and the Revised Code of  
> Washington
> (RCW)that make up the actual state law and codes. The NFPA volumes  
> that the
> WAC and RCW's refer to are still carefully guarded copyrights,  
> reprinted
> with permission and must be purchased.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> ]
> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:41 AM
> To: Carl Hamilton
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I
> Inspector)LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>
> The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there
> really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
>
>> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
>> documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
>> ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
>> .
>> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web.
>> You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look
>> at section
>> 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines
>> of:
>> The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall
>> comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
>> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give
>> the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
>> - Carl
>> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Brad Wright
>> < mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com bradwr at wrightholdings.com
>>>
>> wrote:
>> In my searches I couldn't seem to find anything specific to APCP or
>> other such substances in the King County fire code.  do you have a
>> reference?
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> ] On Behalf Of mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
>> To: Dennis Winningstad
>> Cc: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
>> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>> Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
>> reference the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far
>> as
>> regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep
>> the
>> fire marshal happy.  Especially in places like King county.
>> Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to
>> storing
>> stuff they consider darn flammable.
>> +McG+
>>> Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so
>>> when it is
>>> time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails  
>>> and
>>> phone
>>> calls :D
>>>
>>> Dennis S Winningstad
>>> 503-781-3529
>>>
>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
>>> To: Brian Jarchow; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com  
>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
>>> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>>>
>>> I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we
>>> "wait
>>> and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
>>> completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them
>>> that
>>> chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
>>>
>>> I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out  
>>> to
>>> our government that currently there are several people in the state
>>> with
>>> explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE
>>> says
>>> so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there
>>> will
>>> be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
>>>
>>> steve bloom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *********************************
>>> We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need
>>> to
>>> fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
>>> legislative authority.
>>>
>>> I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on  
>>> the
>>> list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
>>> friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
>>> members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
>>> really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>


From terry at mooreread.com  Wed Apr 15 18:26:46 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:26:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I
	Inspector)LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today, Code vs. Law
In-Reply-To: <AE81A454665345738C383C443380E17F@DellNotebook>
References: <003101c9b784$78fbbe20$6af33a60$@net><073401c9b785$98d46700$ca7d3500$@com><6bc920e40904070646u3a2d32bcvd2d164ad7552781@mail.gmail.com><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A66@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org><7850CAD9AAFC42CB831834D1623E7D98@Mobile2><a5b4f5770904070946t37c71af3k9bbaf7d6fbaee734@mail.gmail.com><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121BBD@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><D2FA266F94114240935EE82741E9E14D@downstair><c202ebe6a85d726f52f89486d8200713.squirrel@www.wa-net.com><3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990977C1@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com><e068dfbd0904130737h4874e24ey67a064ae2f98dabd@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CF758EE-94FD-48B3-B560-5250823E2B6E@mooreread.com>
	<AE81A454665345738C383C443380E17F@DellNotebook>
Message-ID: <B8AB1C6E-C0EC-45CB-8FA6-FDB78E8C67A6@mooreread.com>

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-111801707.html

On Apr 14, 2009, at 9:57 PM, John Armitage wrote:

> Many codes are not written by governmental authorities. The many  
> volumes of
> the NFPA are adopted by AHJ's. The actual law is not the text of the  
> code
> but the requirement to abide by it.
> Electrical codes as my example, you can download the full version of  
> the
> Washington Administrative Code (WAC) and the Revised Code of  
> Washington
> (RCW)that make up the actual state law and codes. The NFPA volumes  
> that the
> WAC and RCW's refer to are still carefully guarded copyrights,  
> reprinted
> with permission and must be purchased.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> ]
> On Behalf Of Terry Moore-Read
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:41 AM
> To: Carl Hamilton
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I
> Inspector)LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>
> The supreme court overturned copyright on laws some time ago - there
> really should be a copy out there somewhere by now.
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 7:37 AM, Carl Hamilton wrote:
>
>> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/~/media/Council/
>> documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
> http://www.kingcounty.gov/council/legislation/
>> ~/media/Council/documents/Clerk/CodeFiles/20_Title_17.ashx
>> .
>> The IFC is copyrighted, so it's not available (for free) on the web.
>> You should go down to your local library and find a hard copy. Look
>> at section
>> 3301.1.4, titled "Rocketry", which states something along the lines
>> of:
>> The storage, handling and use of model and high-power rockets shall
>> comply with the requirements of NFPA 1122, NFPA 1125, and NFPA 1127.
>> The NFPA documents aren't specific to APCP, but presumably do give
>> the local fire marshal jurisdiction over rocket motor storage.
>> - Carl
>> On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Brad Wright
>> < mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com bradwr at wrightholdings.com
>>>
>> wrote:
>> In my searches I couldn't seem to find anything specific to APCP or
>> other such substances in the King County fire code.  do you have a
>> reference?
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> ] On Behalf Of mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:42 PM
>> To: Dennis Winningstad
>> Cc: mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
>> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>> Washington state adopted the Universal Fire Code which contains by
>> reference the NFPA codes.  L&I may soon be out of the picture as far
>> as
>> regulating APCP as an explosive but remember you still have to keep
>> the
>> fire marshal happy.  Especially in places like King county.
>> Fire marshals and local AHJ's do have some say when it comes to
>> storing
>> stuff they consider darn flammable.
>> +McG+
>>> Maybe work in the background, but get all the ducks in a row so
>>> when it is
>>> time to move out, you can overwhelm them with emails, snail mails  
>>> and
>>> phone
>>> calls :D
>>>
>>> Dennis S Winningstad
>>> 503-781-3529
>>>
>>> It is bad luck to be superstitious.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto: mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 AM
>>> To: Brian Jarchow; mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com  
>>> rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] FW: Mark Aguiar (WA L&I Inspector)
>>> LookedAtMyExpl.Magazine Today
>>>
>>> I'd like to voice the other side of this arguement. I suggest we
>>> "wait
>>> and see" before we start asking for permission to something that is
>>> completely legal. L&I may drop it all on their own. Let's give them
>>> that
>>> chance first. If they don't, then we can take next steps.
>>>
>>> I think the last thing we want to do at this stage is to point out  
>>> to
>>> our government that currently there are several people in the state
>>> with
>>> explosive rocket fuel in their garages but it's safe, because BATFE
>>> says
>>> so. However in the near future, without Federal Regulation, there
>>> will
>>> be no control over who stores explosive rocket fuel in their house.
>>>
>>> steve bloom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *********************************
>>> We may have won that battle in one location, but we will still need
>>> to
>>> fight again in Washington courts if L&I decides to regulate without
>>> legislative authority.
>>>
>>> I think we should focus on the suggestion given - does anybody on  
>>> the
>>> list know a member of the legislature? Does anybody here have a good
>>> friend who knows a member of the legislature? If we had one or two
>>> members of the state house or state senate willing to support us, I
>>> really doubt L&I would try to continue regulating APCP.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rockets mailing list
>>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>


From appusher at q.com  Thu Apr 16 08:42:19 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:42:19 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] WEbsite and launch dates
Message-ID: <BLU145-W1C5022480E8BFD6843A70DC7A0@phx.gbl>



Hi Fliers,

 

I have updated www.PugetSoundPropulsion.com with more motor data and launch dates.  I will be adding the Hybrid section covering Skyripper line.  Also, information on our Hybrid GSE for those of you that want to break into hybrids.  Contact info is coming up in the next few days.

 

An announcement:  A Level 2 attempt will be made with a Skyripper "J" motor at FITS.  Details with the rocket are still being finalized for the attempt.  This is going to be an event worth being there to witness!!

Keep an eye on the website for more info. 

 

We have been getting everything ready for April Mansfield.  Orders are coming in pretty steady.  Fliers that have planned flights for FITS or June @ Brothers should consider pre-ordering.

We may just have to place another order for FITS or Brothers.  Discounts for club members and pre-pays.  You can place your orders at Sales at pugetsoundpropulsion.com or by calling Bill at 206.335.0196.

 

Hope to see you all there at the launch,

 

Bill at PSP

 

 

 




 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
-------------- next part --------------
Hi Fliers,
?
I have updated http://www.pugetsoundpropulsion.com/ www.PugetSoundPropulsion.com
with more motor data and launch dates.? I will be adding the Hybrid section covering Skyripper line.? Also, information on our Hybrid GSE for those of you that want to break into hybrids.? Contact info is coming up in the next few days.
?
An announcement:
??A Level 2 attempt?will be made?with a Skyripper "J" motor at FITS.??Details with the rocket are still being finalized for the attempt.??This is going to be an event worth being there?to witness!!
Keep an eye on the website for more info.?
?
We have been getting everything ready for April Mansfield.? Orders are coming in pretty steady.? Fliers that have planned flights for FITS or June @ Brothers should consider pre-ordering.
We may just have to place another order for FITS or Brothers.? Discounts for club members and pre-pays.? You can place your orders at mailto:Sales at pugetsoundpropulsion.com Sales at pugetsoundpropulsion.com
or by calling Bill at 206.335.0196.
?
Hope to see you all there at the launch,
?
mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
?
?
?
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

From greg at blastzone.com  Thu Apr 16 14:59:02 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:59:02 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
Message-ID: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com>

Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday.  Yea...


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Thu Apr 16 15:19:03 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:19:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
In-Reply-To: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com>
References: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com>
Message-ID: <620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2>

Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue thing? Get the
cash you can? 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy

Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday.  Yea...

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From greg at blastzone.com  Thu Apr 16 15:21:37 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:21:37 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
In-Reply-To: <620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2>
References: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com>
	<620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <011601c9bee1$b604b290$220e17b0$@com>

Could be, she did ask if I was planning on renewing.  I am, and told her so,
but I don't think that would have made a difference.  My leup expires in
june.

I just hope its not like last time where the inspector seemed to be trying
to fill her quota for violations write ups.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
> To: 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> 
> Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue thing? Get the
> cash you can?
> 
> 
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> 
> Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday.  Yea...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Thu Apr 16 16:15:21 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:15:21 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
In-Reply-To: <011601c9bee1$b604b290$220e17b0$@com>
References: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com>
	<620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2>
	<011601c9bee1$b604b290$220e17b0$@com>
Message-ID: <E8D500AB07FC43EBB4794B7525BA0AF2@Mobile2>

Just seems A LOT of folks all of the sudden needed a visit. Hard to say if
activity is up or if more folks are talking about it. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:22 PM
To: 'Scott T Bowers'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy

Could be, she did ask if I was planning on renewing.  I am, and told her so,
but I don't think that would have made a difference.  My leup expires in
june.

I just hope its not like last time where the inspector seemed to be trying
to fill her quota for violations write ups.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
> To: 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> 
> Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue thing? Get 
> the cash you can?
> 
> 
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> 
> Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday.  Yea...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 16:38:48 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:38:48 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
References: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com><620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2><011601c9bee1$b604b290$220e17b0$@com>
	<E8D500AB07FC43EBB4794B7525BA0AF2@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <45911D962CFC4BD891C145FA79A92CA1@LaptopKrausert>

Are all these inspections of Lic holders w/ storage? Anyone with contingent 
storage being inspected?

Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>
To: "'Greg Deputy'" <greg at blastzone.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy


> Just seems A LOT of folks all of the sudden needed a visit. Hard to say if
> activity is up or if more folks are talking about it.
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:22 PM
> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>
> Could be, she did ask if I was planning on renewing.  I am, and told her 
> so,
> but I don't think that would have made a difference.  My leup expires in
> june.
>
> I just hope its not like last time where the inspector seemed to be trying
> to fill her quota for violations write ups.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
>> To: 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>>
>> Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue thing? Get
>> the cash you can?
>>
>>
>> Scott T. Bowers
>> www.scottsrockets.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>>
>> Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday. 
>> Yea...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Thu Apr 16 16:44:59 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:44:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
In-Reply-To: <45911D962CFC4BD891C145FA79A92CA1@LaptopKrausert>
References: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com><620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2><011601c9bee1$b604b290$220e17b0$@com><E8D500AB07FC43EBB4794B7525BA0AF2@Mobile2>
	<45911D962CFC4BD891C145FA79A92CA1@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9C2@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Huh?  Wouldn't that be the very definition of a useless government
operation? 

I mean...if they have contingent storage, then they don't actually have
any storage of their own...so what would there be to inspect?  Their
storage buddy's magazine somewhere else?

Dazed and Confused... 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:39 PM
To: Scott T Bowers; 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy

Are all these inspections of Lic holders w/ storage? Anyone with
contingent storage being inspected?

Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>
To: "'Greg Deputy'" <greg at blastzone.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy


> Just seems A LOT of folks all of the sudden needed a visit. Hard to
say if
> activity is up or if more folks are talking about it.
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:22 PM
> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>
> Could be, she did ask if I was planning on renewing.  I am, and told
her 
> so,
> but I don't think that would have made a difference.  My leup expires
in
> june.
>
> I just hope its not like last time where the inspector seemed to be
trying
> to fill her quota for violations write ups.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
>> To: 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>>
>> Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue thing?
Get
>> the cash you can?
>>
>>
>> Scott T. Bowers
>> www.scottsrockets.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>>
>> Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday. 
>> Yea...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From appusher at q.com  Thu Apr 16 16:49:17 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:49:17 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9C2@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com><620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2><011601c9bee1$b604b290$220e17b0$@com><E8D500AB07FC43EBB4794B7525BA0AF2@Mobile2>
	<45911D962CFC4BD891C145FA79A92CA1@LaptopKrausert> 
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9C2@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W1255E5FD4A8C66B00D6FB7DC7A0@phx.gbl>


 

paper trail, paper trail, paper trail...... but then again the storage magazine would have that.

 

Things that make you go ........Hhhmmmmmmm.











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:44:59 -0700
> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; scott at scottsrockets.com; greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> 
> Huh? Wouldn't that be the very definition of a useless government
> operation? 
> 
> I mean...if they have contingent storage, then they don't actually have
> any storage of their own...so what would there be to inspect? Their
> storage buddy's magazine somewhere else?
> 
> Dazed and Confused... 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:39 PM
> To: Scott T Bowers; 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> 
> Are all these inspections of Lic holders w/ storage? Anyone with
> contingent storage being inspected?
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>
> To: "'Greg Deputy'" <greg at blastzone.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> 
> 
> > Just seems A LOT of folks all of the sudden needed a visit. Hard to
> say if
> > activity is up or if more folks are talking about it.
> >
> >
> > Scott T. Bowers
> > www.scottsrockets.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:22 PM
> > To: 'Scott T Bowers'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >
> > Could be, she did ask if I was planning on renewing. I am, and told
> her 
> > so,
> > but I don't think that would have made a difference. My leup expires
> in
> > june.
> >
> > I just hope its not like last time where the inspector seemed to be
> trying
> > to fill her quota for violations write ups.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
> >> To: 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >>
> >> Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue thing?
> Get
> >> the cash you can?
> >>
> >>
> >> Scott T. Bowers
> >> www.scottsrockets.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >>
> >> Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday. 
> >> Yea...
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
?
paper trail, paper trail, paper trail...... but then again the storage magazine would have that.
?
Things that make you go ........Hhhmmmmmmm.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:44:59 -0700
> From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; scott at scottsrockets.com; greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>
> Huh? Wouldn't that be the very definition of a useless government
> operation?
>
> I mean...if they have contingent storage, then they don't actually have
> any storage of their own...so what would there be to inspect? Their
> storage buddy's magazine somewhere else?
>
> Dazed and Confused...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:39 PM
> To: Scott T Bowers; 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>
> Are all these inspections of Lic holders w/ storage? Anyone with
> contingent storage being inspected?
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>
> To: "'Greg Deputy'" <greg at blastzone.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>
>
> > Just seems A LOT of folks all of the sudden needed a visit. Hard to
> say if
> > activity is up or if more folks are talking about it.
> >
> >
> > Scott T. Bowers
> > www.scottsrockets.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:22 PM
> > To: 'Scott T Bowers'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >
> > Could be, she did ask if I was planning on renewing. I am, and told
> her
> > so,
> > but I don't think that would have made a difference. My leup expires
> in
> > june.
> >
> > I just hope its not like last time where the inspector seemed to be
> trying
> > to fill her quota for violations write ups.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
> >> To: 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >>
> >> Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue thing?
> Get
> >> the cash you can?
> >>
> >>
> >> Scott T. Bowers
> >> www.scottsrockets.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
> >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >>
> >> Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday.
> >> Yea...
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rockets mailing list
> >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From greg at bigredbee.com  Thu Apr 16 17:25:41 2009
From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:25:41 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
In-Reply-To: <BLU145-W1255E5FD4A8C66B00D6FB7DC7A0@phx.gbl>
References: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com>
	<620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2>
	<011601c9bee1$b604b290$220e17b0$@com>
	<E8D500AB07FC43EBB4794B7525BA0AF2@Mobile2>
	<45911D962CFC4BD891C145FA79A92CA1@LaptopKrausert>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9C2@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<BLU145-W1255E5FD4A8C66B00D6FB7DC7A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <bf3fe8020904161725r5be58cd0g32a290db389a8385@mail.gmail.com>

I get inspected every three years, and I have no storage.  I expect to
get a call any day now, as my LEUP expires in July.

I think a lot of us got our LEUPS about the same time 6 years ago --
perhaps that explains why we're all getting inspected again.

-- Greg

On 4/16/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>
>  paper trail, paper trail, paper trail...... but then again the storage magazine would have that.
>
>  Things that make you go ........Hhhmmmmmmm.
>  http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
>  Join me
>
>  > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:44:59 -0700
>  > From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
>  > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; scott at scottsrockets.com; greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>  >
>  > Huh? Wouldn't that be the very definition of a useless government
>  > operation?
>  >
>  > I mean...if they have contingent storage, then they don't actually have
>  > any storage of their own...so what would there be to inspect? Their
>  > storage buddy's magazine somewhere else?
>  >
>  > Dazed and Confused...
>  >
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>  > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
>  > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:39 PM
>  > To: Scott T Bowers; 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>  >
>  > Are all these inspections of Lic holders w/ storage? Anyone with
>  > contingent storage being inspected?
>  >
>  > Cheers,
>  > Robert
>  >
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>
>  > To: "'Greg Deputy'" <greg at blastzone.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
>  > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:15 PM
>  > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>  >
>  >
>  > > Just seems A LOT of folks all of the sudden needed a visit. Hard to
>  > say if
>  > > activity is up or if more folks are talking about it.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Scott T. Bowers
>  > > www.scottsrockets.com
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > -----Original Message-----
>  > > From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]
>  > > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:22 PM
>  > > To: 'Scott T Bowers'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>  > >
>  > > Could be, she did ask if I was planning on renewing. I am, and told
>  > her
>  > > so,
>  > > but I don't think that would have made a difference. My leup expires
>  > in
>  > > june.
>  > >
>  > > I just hope its not like last time where the inspector seemed to be
>  > trying
>  > > to fill her quota for violations write ups.
>  > >
>  > >> -----Original Message-----
>  > >> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
>  > >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
>  > >> To: 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>  > >>
>  > >> Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue thing?
>  > Get
>  > >> the cash you can?
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> Scott T. Bowers
>  > >> www.scottsrockets.com
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> -----Original Message-----
>  > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>  > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>  > >> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
>  > >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
>  > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
>  > >>
>  > >> Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday.
>  > >> Yea...
>  > >>
>  > >> _______________________________________________
>  > >> Rockets mailing list
>  > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  > >>
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > _______________________________________________
>  > > Rockets mailing list
>  > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  > >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Rockets mailing list
>  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Rockets mailing list
>  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>  >
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Rockets mailing list
>  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Thu Apr 16 19:06:09 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 02:06:09 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] April Launch - Portland Folks!
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990A18D9@BL2PRD0102MB003.prod.exchangelabs.com>

If any of the folks in the Portland area are planning on attending the April launch in Mansfield can you contact me off list?

thx
brad
-------------- next part --------------
If any of the folks in the Portland area are planning on attending the April launch in Mansfield can you contact me off list?
?
thx
brad

From t.j.doll at att.net  Fri Apr 17 13:52:54 2009
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:52:54 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
Message-ID: <041720092052.16641.49E8EC260000763F0000410122218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

Hi All

I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it.  I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run into a problem.  I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP.  I've previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least current).  So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn.

Anyone out there willing to help out?

Thanks

Tim
-------------- next part --------------
Hi All
?
I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it.? I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run into a problem.? I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP.? I've previously been told that I didn't need?the LEUP if I used the motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least current).? So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn.
?
Anyone out there willing to help out?
?
Thanks
?
Tim

From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Fri Apr 17 16:04:00 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (jjarmitage at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:04:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
Message-ID: <20090417230607.XRKG13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>

I'd be happy to help out.
one question, how well will that 211 handle a 12lb bird?

jjarmitage at earthlink.net
253 205 7722
Sent from my Palm Tr?o

-----Original Message-----

From:  t.j.doll at att.net
Subj:  [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
Date:  Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:53 pm
Size:  595 bytes
To:  rockets at rocketsnw.com


Hi All

I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it.  I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run into a problem.  I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP.  I've previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least current).  So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn.

Anyone out there willing to help out?

Thanks

Tim


--- message truncated ---



From greg at blastzone.com  Fri Apr 17 16:19:49 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:19:49 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
In-Reply-To: <041720092052.16641.49E8EC260000763F0000410122218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
References: <041720092052.16641.49E8EC260000763F0000410122218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
Message-ID: <055501c9bfb3$01b17cb0$05147610$@com>

Keep in mind in about 30 days we'll hopefully have the final ruling finalized and you wont need a leup for FITS.  

Yes, optimistic/wishful thinking, but something to keep in mind while you get your leup buddle lined up as a contingency.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On
> Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:53 PM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
> 
> Hi All
> 
> I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS
> - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it.  I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've
> run into a problem.  I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP.  I've
> previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the
> time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least
> current).  So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually
> obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn.
> 
> Anyone out there willing to help out?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tim


From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Fri Apr 17 16:27:12 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:27:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
References: <20090417230607.XRKG13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A95@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

He'll be close, but my back-of-napkin math shows he'll still be within the 1/3 of average thrust rule.
 
One of these days, when the program is flush with cash from all our fame...I'm going to get me one of those Saturn V kits from Sheri.  Only difference would be that I plan to put K motors in it....Long burn ones....
 
Pete

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of jjarmitage at earthlink.net
Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 4:04 PM
To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS



I'd be happy to help out.
one question, how well will that 211 handle a 12lb bird?

jjarmitage at earthlink.net
253 205 7722
Sent from my Palm Tr?o

-----Original Message-----

From:  t.j.doll at att.net
Subj:  [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
Date:  Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:53 pm
Size:  595 bytes
To:  rockets at rocketsnw.com


Hi All

I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it.  I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run into a problem.  I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP.  I've previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least current).  So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn.

Anyone out there willing to help out?

Thanks

Tim


--- message truncated ---


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 



From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Fri Apr 17 16:41:28 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:41:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A95@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <20090417230607.XRKG13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A95@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <004501c9bfb6$07ca2090$175e61b0$@net>

If I were RSOing the bird, I'd much rather see an I-285(redline) or better
yet, I-300 (blue thunder).  You could take a step up the impulse ladder to
the 38/600 case and most of the motors would work there...excepting the
Black Jack.

The 38/720 case has a couple motors you could use too.

A 12 pound draggy rocket like this needs some impulse to shine!

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 4:27 PM
To: jjarmitage at earthlink.net; t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS

He'll be close, but my back-of-napkin math shows he'll still be within the
1/3 of average thrust rule.
 
One of these days, when the program is flush with cash from all our
fame...I'm going to get me one of those Saturn V kits from Sheri.  Only
difference would be that I plan to put K motors in it....Long burn ones....
 
Pete

________________________________

From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of jjarmitage at earthlink.net
Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 4:04 PM
To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS



I'd be happy to help out.
one question, how well will that 211 handle a 12lb bird?

jjarmitage at earthlink.net
253 205 7722
Sent from my Palm Tr?o

-----Original Message-----

From:  t.j.doll at att.net
Subj:  [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
Date:  Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:53 pm
Size:  595 bytes
To:  rockets at rocketsnw.com


Hi All

I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at
FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it.  I'd like to use an I211W reload,
but I've run into a problem.  I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an
LEUP.  I've previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the
motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't
correct (or at least current).  So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy'
before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn.

Anyone out there willing to help out?

Thanks

Tim


--- message truncated ---


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From t.j.doll at att.net  Fri Apr 17 16:56:42 2009
From: t.j.doll at att.net (t.j.doll at att.net)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:56:42 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A95@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <20090417230607.XRKG13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A95@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <041720092356.2385.49E9173A000AE2030000095122243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>

Thanks for all the feedback.  Jim Wilkerson has volunteered to be my LEUP buddy, but if something goes wrong I'll keep the rest of you in mind.
Yes, hopefully the need for a LEUP will go away, but better safe then sorry 

I've run Rocksim - it says the I211 will hit 650 feet, and be going 40 fps leaving a six foot rail (I'm assuming six feet for the rails - longer would obviously be better....) so it should be OK.

If this goes well, I'm planning to use it for my Level 2 cert flight at LDRS - with a J275W

Tim


-------------- Original message from "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>: -------------- 

He'll be close, but my back-of-napkin math shows he'll still be within the 1/3 
> of average thrust rule. 
> One of these days, when the program is flush with cash from all our fame...I'm going to get me one of those Saturn V kits from Sheri. Only difference would be 
> that I plan to put K motors in it....Long burn ones.... 
> 
> Pete 
> 
> ________________________________ 
> 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of jjarmitage at earthlink.net 
> Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 4:04 PM 
> To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be happy to help out. 
> one question, how well will that 211 handle a 12lb bird? 
> 
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net 
> 253 205 7722 
> Sent from my Palm Tr??o 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> 
> From: t.j.doll at att.net 
> Subj: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS 
> Date: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:53 pm 
> Size: 595 bytes 
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> 
> 
> Hi All 
> I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS - 
> all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it. I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run 
> into a problem. I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP. I've 
> previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the 
> time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least 
> current). So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain 
> a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn. 
> 
> Anyone out there willing to help out? 
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Tim 
> 
> 
> --- message truncated --- 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 
> 
> 
-------------- next part --------------
Thanks for all the feedback.? Jim Wilkerson has volunteered to be my LEUP buddy, but if something goes wrong I'll keep the rest of you in mind.
Yes, hopefully the need for a LEUP will go away, but better safe then sorry http://webmail.att.net/tbimages/s02.gif
?
I've run Rocksim - it says the I211 will hit 650 feet, and be going 40 fps leaving a six foot rail (I'm assuming six feet for the rails - longer would obviously be better....) so it should be OK.
?
If this goes well, I'm planning to use it for my Level 2 cert flight at LDRS - with a J275W
?
Tim
?
?
-------------- Original message from "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>: --------------
He'll be close, but my back-of-napkin math shows he'll still be within the 1/3
> of average thrust rule.
> One of these days, when the program is flush with cash from all our fame...I'm going to get me one of those Saturn V kits from Sheri. Only difference would be
> that I plan to put K motors in it....Long burn ones....
>
> Pete
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 4:04 PM
> To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
>
>
>
> I'd be happy to help out.
> one question, how well will that 211 handle a 12lb bird?
>
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> 253 205 7722
> Sent from my Palm Tr??o
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: t.j.doll at att.net
> Subj: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
> Date: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:53 pm
> Size: 595 bytes
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
>
> Hi All
> I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS -
> all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it. I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run
> into a problem. I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP. I've
> previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the
> time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least
> current). So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain
> a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn.
>
> Anyone out there willing to help out?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tim
>
>
> --- message truncated ---
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>

From raystoner99 at comcast.net  Fri Apr 17 17:37:13 2009
From: raystoner99 at comcast.net (W. Raymond Stoner)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:37:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
In-Reply-To: <041720092356.2385.49E9173A000AE2030000095122243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
References: <20090417230607.XRKG13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A95@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<041720092356.2385.49E9173A000AE2030000095122243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
Message-ID: <004f01c9bfbd$d2086720$76193560$@net>

Boy I hope RockSim is right this time, and that you've got your sim correct.  If not, it will be a tragic loss of an elaborate project.

Of course, for a couple extra dollars, you end up with a lot of peace of mind with a higher average and total impulse.

In the end, it's up to you and your RSO...but I'd play it safe if it were my rocket.

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 4:57 PM
To: Schurke, Peter; jjarmitage at earthlink.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS

Thanks for all the feedback.  Jim Wilkerson has volunteered to be my LEUP buddy, but if something goes wrong I'll keep the rest of you in mind.
Yes, hopefully the need for a LEUP will go away, but better safe then sorry 

I've run Rocksim - it says the I211 will hit 650 feet, and be going 40 fps leaving a six foot rail (I'm assuming six feet for the rails - longer would obviously be better....) so it should be OK.

If this goes well, I'm planning to use it for my Level 2 cert flight at LDRS - with a J275W

Tim


-------------- Original message from "Schurke, Peter" <pmschurke at seattleschools.org>: -------------- 

He'll be close, but my back-of-napkin math shows he'll still be within the 1/3 
> of average thrust rule. 
> One of these days, when the program is flush with cash from all our 
> fame...I'm going to get me one of those Saturn V kits from Sheri. Only difference would be that I plan to put K motors in it....Long burn ones....
> 
> Pete
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of 
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 4:04 PM
> To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be happy to help out. 
> one question, how well will that 211 handle a 12lb bird? 
> 
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> 253 205 7722
> Sent from my Palm Tr o
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: t.j.doll at att.net
> Subj: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
> Date: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:53 pm
> Size: 595 bytes
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> 
> 
> Hi All
> I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V 
> at FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it. I'd like to use an I211W 
> reload, but I've run into a problem. I have a Level 1 Cert, but I 
> don't have an LEUP. I've previously been told that I didn't need the 
> LEUP if I used the motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm 
> informed that wasn't correct (or at least current). So it sounds like 
> I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn.
> 
> Anyone out there willing to help out? 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> --- message truncated ---
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
> 
> 


From sb at berfield.com  Fri Apr 17 19:59:28 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:59:28 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
Message-ID: <W235421384378681240023568@webmail56>

I'd be glad to help out.
-----Original Message-----
From: t.j.doll at att.net [mailto:t.j.doll at att.net]
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 01:52 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS

Hi All I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it. I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run into a problem. I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP. I've previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least current). So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn. Anyone out there willing to help out? Thanks Tim
-------------- next part --------------
I'd be glad to help out.
-----Original Message-----
From:
t.j.doll at att.net [mailto:t.j.doll at att.net]
Sent:
Friday, April 17, 2009 01:52 PM
To:
rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject:
[RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
Hi All I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it. I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run into a problem. I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP. I've previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least current). So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn. Anyone out there willing to help out? Thanks Tim

From sb at berfield.com  Fri Apr 17 20:11:32 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:11:32 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
Message-ID: <W242822204199101240024292@webmail32>

A pair of K185s
-----Original Message-----
From: Schurke, Peter [mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org]
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 04:27 PM
To: jjarmitage at earthlink.net, t.j.doll at att.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS

He'll be close, but my back-of-napkin math shows he'll still be within the 1/3 of average thrust rule. One of these days, when the program is flush with cash from all our fame...I'm going to get me one of those Saturn V kits from Sheri. Only difference would be that I plan to put K motors in it....Long burn ones.... Pete ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of jjarmitage at earthlink.net Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 4:04 PM To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS I'd be happy to help out. one question, how well will that 211 handle a 12lb bird? jjarmitage at earthlink.net 253 205 7722 Sent from my Palm Tr?o -----Original Message----- From: t.j.doll at att.net Subj: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS Date: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:53 pm Size: 595 bytes To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Hi All I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it. I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run into a problem. I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP. I've previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least current). So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn. Anyone out there willing to help out? Thanks Tim --- message truncated --- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
-------------- next part --------------
A pair of K185s
-----Original Message-----
From:
Schurke, Peter [mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org]
Sent:
Friday, April 17, 2009 04:27 PM
To:
jjarmitage at earthlink.net, t.j.doll at att.net, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject:
Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
He'll be close, but my back-of-napkin math shows he'll still be within the 1/3 of average thrust rule. One of these days, when the program is flush with cash from all our fame...I'm going to get me one of those Saturn V kits from Sheri. Only difference would be that I plan to put K motors in it....Long burn ones.... Pete ________________________________ From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of jjarmitage at earthlink.net Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 4:04 PM To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS I'd be happy to help out. one question, how well will that 211 handle a 12lb bird? jjarmitage at earthlink.net 253 205 7722 Sent from my Palm Tr?o -----Original Message----- From: t.j.doll at att.net Subj: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS Date: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:53 pm Size: 595 bytes To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Hi All I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at FITS - all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it. I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've run into a problem. I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP. I've previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at the time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at least current). So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually obtain a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn. Anyone out there willing to help out? Thanks Tim --- message truncated --- _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From jhadv at pacifier.com  Sat Apr 18 08:01:55 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 08:01:55 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] UNDERPOWERED SATURN
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1003.1240015054.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090418075905.00c2ebe0@mail.iinet.com>

"be going 40 fps leaving a six foot rail"

That's like 25 miles ah hour.  Do you really think a 90 inch, 12 pound 
rocket will be stable at 25 miles per hour? 


From winningstad at comcast.net  Sat Apr 18 10:09:23 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:09:23 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS
In-Reply-To: <041720092356.2385.49E9173A000AE2030000095122243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
References: <20090417230607.XRKG13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM><844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA9A95@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<041720092356.2385.49E9173A000AE2030000095122243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF0404010BD206D29B@att.net>
Message-ID: <4493862D497449A4B16C220BE6D35426@downstair>

IMHO good luck at 40fps...

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
 
It is bad luck to be superstitious.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of t.j.doll at att.net
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 4:57 PM
To: Schurke, Peter; jjarmitage at earthlink.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS

Thanks for all the feedback.  Jim Wilkerson has volunteered to be my LEUP
buddy, but if something goes wrong I'll keep the rest of you in mind.
Yes, hopefully the need for a LEUP will go away, but better safe then sorry 

I've run Rocksim - it says the I211 will hit 650 feet, and be going 40 fps
leaving a six foot rail (I'm assuming six feet for the rails - longer would
obviously be better....) so it should be OK.

If this goes well, I'm planning to use it for my Level 2 cert flight at LDRS
- with a J275W

Tim


-------------- Original message from "Schurke, Peter"
<pmschurke at seattleschools.org>: -------------- 

He'll be close, but my back-of-napkin math shows he'll still be within the
1/3 
> of average thrust rule. 
> One of these days, when the program is flush with cash from all our
fame...I'm going to get me one of those Saturn V kits from Sheri. Only
difference would be 
> that I plan to put K motors in it....Long burn ones.... 
> 
> Pete 
> 
> ________________________________ 
> 
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com on behalf of jjarmitage at earthlink.net 
> Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 4:04 PM 
> To: t.j.doll at att.net; rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be happy to help out. 
> one question, how well will that 211 handle a 12lb bird? 
> 
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net 
> 253 205 7722 
> Sent from my Palm Tr?o 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> 
> From: t.j.doll at att.net 
> Subj: [RocketsNW] Need an LEUP Buddy for FITS 
> Date: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:53 pm 
> Size: 595 bytes 
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> 
> 
> Hi All 
> I'm planning to fly my recently completed Sheri's Hot Rockets Saturn V at
FITS - 
> all 7 1/2 feet and 12 lbs of it. I'd like to use an I211W reload, but I've
run 
> into a problem. I have a Level 1 Cert, but I don't have an LEUP. I've 
> previously been told that I didn't need the LEUP if I used the motor at
the 
> time/place of purchase, but now I'm informed that wasn't correct (or at
least 
> current). So it sounds like I need an LEUP 'buddy' before I can actually
obtain 
> a Level 1 motor to launch the Saturn. 
> 
> Anyone out there willing to help out? 
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Tim 
> 
> 
> --- message truncated --- 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com 
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets 
> 
> 
> 


From appusher at q.com  Sat Apr 18 21:10:02 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:10:02 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
Message-ID: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>


Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff.  Nah!  Trying to get rockets ready to fly.

 

Me.  I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is, at only 4yrs old.  Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on the Binder Sentinel.  I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.

The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the lines of a K185.  Should be fun.

 

See ya all at the launch,

 

Bill at PSP










 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
-------------- next part --------------
Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff.? Nah!? Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
?
Me.? I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is, at only 4yrs old.? Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on the Binder Sentinel.? I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the lines of a K185.? Should be fun.
?
See ya all at the launch,
?
mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

From bigredbee at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 21:13:40 2009
From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:13:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
In-Reply-To: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>

I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
and see it at the Brother's May launch!

-- Greg

On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff.  Nah!  Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
>
>  Me.  I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is, at only 4yrs old.  Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on the Binder Sentinel.  I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
>  The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the lines of a K185.  Should be fun.
>
>  See ya all at the launch,
>
>  mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
>  http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
>  Join me
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Rockets mailing list
>  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From appusher at q.com  Sat Apr 18 21:35:10 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:35:10 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
In-Reply-To: <bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W19F204A85F6BC370C4DC01DC790@phx.gbl>


Are you going to be at the June Brothers launch?

 

I know we are going to be there in June but don't know about May.

 

Bill











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:13:40 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> From: bigredbee at gmail.com
> To: appusher at q.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> 
> I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
> and see it at the Brother's May launch!
> 
> -- Greg
> 
> On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> > Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff. Nah! Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
> >
> > Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is, at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
> > The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the lines of a K185. Should be fun.
> >
> > See ya all at the launch,
> >
> > mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
> > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > Join me
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
-------------- next part --------------
Are you going to be at the June Brothers launch?
?
I know we are going to be there in June but don't know about May.
?
Bill
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:13:40 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> From: bigredbee at gmail.com
> To: appusher at q.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
> I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
> and see it at the Brother's May launch!
>
> -- Greg
>
> On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> > Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff. Nah! Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
> >
> > Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is, at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
> > The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the lines of a K185. Should be fun.
> >
> > See ya all at the launch,
> >
> > mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
> > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > Join me
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >

From bigredbee at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 21:47:36 2009
From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:47:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
In-Reply-To: <BLU145-W19F204A85F6BC370C4DC01DC790@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU145-W19F204A85F6BC370C4DC01DC790@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <bf3fe8020904182147n6b8f9022gde12312b0079f19@mail.gmail.com>

I plan to be at Brothers in May, June and October.

On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>
>  Are you going to be at the June Brothers launch?
>
>  I know we are going to be there in June but don't know about May.
>
>  Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:13:40 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> > From: bigredbee at gmail.com
> > To: appusher at q.com
> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
> >
> > I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
> > and see it at the Brother's May launch!
> >
> > -- Greg
> >
> > On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> > > Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff. Nah!
> Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
> > >
> > > Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is,
> at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on
> the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
> > > The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the
> lines of a K185. Should be fun.
> > >
> > > See ya all at the launch,
> > >
> > > mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
> > >
> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood
> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING
> FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > > Join me
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> > >
>

From appusher at q.com  Sat Apr 18 21:55:31 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:55:31 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
In-Reply-To: <bf3fe8020904182147n6b8f9022gde12312b0079f19@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU145-W19F204A85F6BC370C4DC01DC790@phx.gbl> 
	<bf3fe8020904182147n6b8f9022gde12312b0079f19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W7BCB7C10F109822AADC8CDC790@phx.gbl>


I'll have to take a look in June.  What will the receiver be?  Will it be a complete package deal or separate?

 

Bill







 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:47:36 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> From: bigredbee at gmail.com
> To: appusher at q.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> 
> I plan to be at Brothers in May, June and October.
> 
> On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >
> > Are you going to be at the June Brothers launch?
> >
> > I know we are going to be there in June but don't know about May.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > Join me
> >
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:13:40 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> > > From: bigredbee at gmail.com
> > > To: appusher at q.com
> > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >
> > >
> > > I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
> > > and see it at the Brother's May launch!
> > >
> > > -- Greg
> > >
> > > On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> > > > Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff. Nah!
> > Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
> > > >
> > > > Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is,
> > at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on
> > the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
> > > > The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the
> > lines of a K185. Should be fun.
> > > >
> > > > See ya all at the launch,
> > > >
> > > > mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
> > > >
> > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood
> > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING
> > FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > > > Join me
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Rockets mailing list
> > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > > >
> > > >
> >
-------------- next part --------------
I'll have to take a look in June.? What will the receiver be?? Will it be a complete package deal or separate?
?
Bill
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:47:36 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> From: bigredbee at gmail.com
> To: appusher at q.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>
> I plan to be at Brothers in May, June and October.
>
> On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >
> > Are you going to be at the June Brothers launch?
> >
> > I know we are going to be there in June but don't know about May.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > Join me
> >
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:13:40 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> > > From: bigredbee at gmail.com
> > > To: appusher at q.com
> > > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >
> > >
> > > I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
> > > and see it at the Brother's May launch!
> > >
> > > -- Greg
> > >
> > > On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> > > > Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff. Nah!
> > Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
> > > >
> > > > Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is,
> > at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on
> > the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
> > > > The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the
> > lines of a K185. Should be fun.
> > > >
> > > > See ya all at the launch,
> > > >
> > > > mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
> > > >
> > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood
> > http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING
> > FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> > > > Join me
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Rockets mailing list
> > > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > > >
> > > >
> >

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 22:04:44 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:04:44 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl><bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com><BLU145-W19F204A85F6BC370C4DC01DC790@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904182147n6b8f9022gde12312b0079f19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E8EC4E772DA49C6B435ECB956478AAD@LaptopKrausert>

I've picked the "motor of this year" to try out. Plus a few others. Ariel is 
rebuilt and now ready with a 54mm motor mount. Ariel is being painted by a 
friend of my son Jeremy. This guy has a talent. Other than a 54mm motor to 
try, try, try. I'm planning to use some 75mm and 98mm L's on a scratch built 
nothing fancy rocket.

Most of all, hanging out in the sage with friends. I'm so ready.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Clark" <bigredbee at gmail.com>
To: "Bill Munds" <appusher at q.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet


>I plan to be at Brothers in May, June and October.
>
> On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Are you going to be at the June Brothers launch?
>>
>>  I know we are going to be there in June but don't know about May.
>>
>>  Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
>> Join me
>>
>>
>> > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:13:40 -0700
>> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
>> > From: bigredbee at gmail.com
>> > To: appusher at q.com
>> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>
>> >
>> > I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
>> > and see it at the Brother's May launch!
>> >
>> > -- Greg
>> >
>> > On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>> > > Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff. 
>> > > Nah!
>> Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
>> > >
>> > > Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she 
>> > > is,
>> at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay 
>> on
>> the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
>> > > The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along 
>> > > the
>> lines of a K185. Should be fun.
>> > >
>> > > See ya all at the launch,
>> > >
>> > > mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
>> > >
>> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood
>> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING
>> FOR THE GREATER GOOD
>> > > Join me
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Rockets mailing list
>> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>> > >
>> > >
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From keithp at keithp.com  Sat Apr 18 22:26:59 2009
From: keithp at keithp.com (Keith Packard)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:26:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
In-Reply-To: <bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1240118819.6324.1.camel@aiko.keithp.com>

On Sat, 2009-04-18 at 21:13 -0700, Greg Clark wrote:
> I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
> and see it at the Brother's May launch!

Looking forward to it! My 70cm GPS tracker/flight computer is almost
running too; too much software in this thing though. I'm learning to
love NMEA strings.

-- 
keith.packard at intel.com
-------------- next part --------------
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From appusher at q.com  Sat Apr 18 22:38:43 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 05:38:43 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
In-Reply-To: <3E8EC4E772DA49C6B435ECB956478AAD@LaptopKrausert>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl><bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com><BLU145-W19F204A85F6BC370C4DC01DC790@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904182147n6b8f9022gde12312b0079f19@mail.gmail.com>
	<3E8EC4E772DA49C6B435ECB956478AAD@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W227A24045300C19AF171E7DC790@phx.gbl>


looking forward to ssing you Robert

 

Bill







 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> To: bigredbee at gmail.com; appusher at q.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:04:44 -0700
> 
> I've picked the "motor of this year" to try out. Plus a few others. Ariel is 
> rebuilt and now ready with a 54mm motor mount. Ariel is being painted by a 
> friend of my son Jeremy. This guy has a talent. Other than a 54mm motor to 
> try, try, try. I'm planning to use some 75mm and 98mm L's on a scratch built 
> nothing fancy rocket.
> 
> Most of all, hanging out in the sage with friends. I'm so ready.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Clark" <bigredbee at gmail.com>
> To: "Bill Munds" <appusher at q.com>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 9:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> 
> 
> >I plan to be at Brothers in May, June and October.
> >
> > On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Are you going to be at the June Brothers launch?
> >>
> >> I know we are going to be there in June but don't know about May.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> >> Join me
> >>
> >>
> >> > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:13:40 -0700
> >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> >> > From: bigredbee at gmail.com
> >> > To: appusher at q.com
> >> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
> >> > and see it at the Brother's May launch!
> >> >
> >> > -- Greg
> >> >
> >> > On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >> > > Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff. 
> >> > > Nah!
> >> Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
> >> > >
> >> > > Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she 
> >> > > is,
> >> at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay 
> >> on
> >> the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
> >> > > The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along 
> >> > > the
> >> lines of a K185. Should be fun.
> >> > >
> >> > > See ya all at the launch,
> >> > >
> >> > > mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
> >> > >
> >> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood
> >> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING
> >> FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> >> > > Join me
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Rockets mailing list
> >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > 
> 
-------------- next part --------------
looking forward to ssing you Robert
?
Bill
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com
> To: bigredbee at gmail.com; appusher at q.com
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:04:44 -0700
>
> I've picked the "motor of this year" to try out. Plus a few others. Ariel is
> rebuilt and now ready with a 54mm motor mount. Ariel is being painted by a
> friend of my son Jeremy. This guy has a talent. Other than a 54mm motor to
> try, try, try. I'm planning to use some 75mm and 98mm L's on a scratch built
> nothing fancy rocket.
>
> Most of all, hanging out in the sage with friends. I'm so ready.
>
> Cheers,
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Clark" <bigredbee at gmail.com>
> To: "Bill Munds" <appusher at q.com>
> Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 9:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
>
>
> >I plan to be at Brothers in May, June and October.
> >
> > On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Are you going to be at the June Brothers launch?
> >>
> >> I know we are going to be there in June but don't know about May.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> >> Join me
> >>
> >>
> >> > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:13:40 -0700
> >> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> >> > From: bigredbee at gmail.com
> >> > To: appusher at q.com
> >> > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
> >> > and see it at the Brother's May launch!
> >> >
> >> > -- Greg
> >> >
> >> > On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >> > > Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff.
> >> > > Nah!
> >> Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
> >> > >
> >> > > Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she
> >> > > is,
> >> at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay
> >> on
> >> the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
> >> > > The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along
> >> > > the
> >> lines of a K185. Should be fun.
> >> > >
> >> > > See ya all at the launch,
> >> > >
> >> > > mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
> >> > >
> >> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood
> >> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING
> >> FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> >> > > Join me
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Rockets mailing list
> >> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 22:43:00 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:43:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl><bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1240118819.6324.1.camel@aiko.keithp.com>
Message-ID: <225A0D908317430AAC570159F5E9375D@LaptopKrausert>

I miss the days of programming the districts' payrole system in Cobol 74. 
And using report writer for dumps. Those were the days.

Programming laser light shows with Pascal. Why didn't more of geeks use 
Turbo Pascal 3.0 or 3.11 to write with. I'd still be happy today. But then 
came this thing called C and C++. Give me a break. Just a Pascal object 
oriented want to be. Only to take over. :(

Write("hello world"); or Writeln("Hello World");  became printf("Hello 
World");

What's printf? What's the F for? ;-)

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Packard" <keithp at keithp.com>
To: "Greg Clark" <bigredbee at gmail.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet


> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From fred.azinger at intel.com  Sat Apr 18 23:11:31 2009
From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:11:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
In-Reply-To: <225A0D908317430AAC570159F5E9375D@LaptopKrausert>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl><bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1240118819.6324.1.camel@aiko.keithp.com>
	<225A0D908317430AAC570159F5E9375D@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <F675EE07F28A0A4E933E5F9DD28672FB4B3EE366@orsmsx508.amr.corp.intel.com>

I hear ya there Bob -- Pascal was the bomb......

So -- what is the "motor of this year?"

98mm L's......what a waste of a big hole!!!  Get the L3 and start thinking N's!!!



-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 10:43 PM
To: Keith Packard; Greg Clark
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet

I miss the days of programming the districts' payrole system in Cobol 74. 
And using report writer for dumps. Those were the days.

Programming laser light shows with Pascal. Why didn't more of geeks use 
Turbo Pascal 3.0 or 3.11 to write with. I'd still be happy today. But then 
came this thing called C and C++. Give me a break. Just a Pascal object 
oriented want to be. Only to take over. :(

Write("hello world"); or Writeln("Hello World");  became printf("Hello 
World");

What's printf? What's the F for? ;-)

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Packard" <keithp at keithp.com>
To: "Greg Clark" <bigredbee at gmail.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet


> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From bigrockets at verizon.net  Sat Apr 18 23:17:50 2009
From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:17:50 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OT
Message-ID: <003101c9c0b6$91795a80$b46c0f80$@net>

This isn't about rockets but for those of you who appreciate hot rods,
here's what I do with the other side of my personality juxtaposed to
rocketry.
http://rides.carcraft.com/ride/1177034/bigrockets/1968/oldsmobile/cutlass/ph
otos/2.html

Dave Proffitt

-------------- next part --------------
This isn???t about rockets but for those of you who appreciate hot rods, here???s what I do with the other side of my personality juxtaposed to rocketry.
http://rides.carcraft.com/ride/1177034/bigrockets/1968/oldsmobile/cutlass/photos/2.html http://rides.carcraft.com/ride/1177034/bigrockets/1968/oldsmobile/cutlass/photos/2.html
Dave Proffitt

From bigrockets at verizon.net  Sat Apr 18 23:22:33 2009
From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:22:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FW: OT
Message-ID: <003601c9c0b7$3a6ed520$af4c7f60$@net>

Woops! Guess there's a server defugilty?  Try this one and scroll down to
Reader's Rides. 

http://www.carcraft.com/index.html  Mines b the top one thet says
bigrockets. Duh!

 

Sorry about that, whoda thunk it?

 

Dave

 

From: Dave Proffitt [mailto:bigrockets at verizon.net] 
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:18 PM
To: OROC List (rockets at rocketsnw.com)
Subject: OT

 

This isn't about rockets but for those of you who appreciate hot rods,
here's what I do with the other side of my personality juxtaposed to
rocketry.
http://rides.carcraft.com/ride/1177034/bigrockets/1968/oldsmobile/cutlass/ph
otos/2.html

Dave Proffitt

-------------- next part --------------
Woops! Guess there???s a server defugilty? Try this one and scroll down to Reader???s Rides.
http://www.carcraft.com/index.html http://www.carcraft.com/index.html
? Mines b the top one thet says bigrockets. Duh!
?
Sorry about that, whoda thunk it?
?
Dave
?
From:
Dave Proffitt [mailto:bigrockets at verizon.net]
Sent:
Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:18 PM
To:
OROC List (rockets at rocketsnw.com)
Subject:
OT
?
This isn???t about rockets but for those of you who appreciate hot rods, here???s what I do with the other side of my personality juxtaposed to rocketry.
http://rides.carcraft.com/ride/1177034/bigrockets/1968/oldsmobile/cutlass/photos/2.html http://rides.carcraft.com/ride/1177034/bigrockets/1968/oldsmobile/cutlass/photos/2.html
Dave Proffitt

From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 19 06:37:54 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:37:54 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
In-Reply-To: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W105D69F172812797C792CCA6790@phx.gbl>


Trying to find my camping gear.

Working on a replacement Excell + 54mm. Got the e-bay to go,finish the nosecone compartment for a B-line, and paint. The fincan is built.

 

Finished paint on the 3" bird.

 

Still have the Bruce Johnson rocket to finnish.

Have to re-attach a fin on the Viper 2.6, Will have that done today, Then touch up the paint. 

 

Did a demo launch at the school in Leavenworth last week. I did get to fly SOMETHING. 

 

Mark
 
> From: appusher at q.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:10:02 +0000
> Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff. Nah! Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
> 
> 
> 
> Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is, at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
> 
> The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the lines of a K185. Should be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> See ya all at the launch,
> 
> 
> 
> Bill at PSP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me

_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry
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-------------- next part --------------
Trying to find my camping gear.
Working on a replacement Excell?+ 54mm. Got the e-bay to go,finish the nosecone compartment for a B-line, and paint. The fincan is built.
?
Finished paint on the 3" bird.
?
Still have the Bruce Johnson rocket to finnish.
Have to re-attach a fin on the Viper 2.6, Will have that done today, Then touch up the paint.
?
Did a demo launch at the school in Leavenworth last week. I did get to fly SOMETHING.
?
Mark
?
> From: appusher at q.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:10:02 +0000
> Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
>
>
> Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff. Nah! Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
>
>
>
> Me. I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is, at only 4yrs old. Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on the Binder Sentinel. I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
>
> The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the lines of a K185. Should be fun.
>
>
>
> See ya all at the launch,
>
>
>
> Bill at PSP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
> Join me
Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 Check it out.

From jpr602 at mac.com  Sun Apr 19 09:16:59 2009
From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 09:16:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 1/10 scale Saturn V
Message-ID: <B4D6FC49-66F7-4163-948D-0471B772DB53@mac.com>

Dude in Maryland is gonna launch a 1/10 scale Saturn V on a P+8N:

http://www.metafilter.com/80978/Whos-up-for-launch


Any bets on whether this 1600 lb behemoth is gonna have a stable flight?

From jpr602 at mac.com  Sun Apr 19 09:20:43 2009
From: jpr602 at mac.com (John Roberts)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 09:20:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 1/10 scale Saturn V
In-Reply-To: <B4D6FC49-66F7-4163-948D-0471B772DB53@mac.com>
References: <B4D6FC49-66F7-4163-948D-0471B772DB53@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C71C1C7E-C800-49E9-9E59-1B038453D097@mac.com>


On Apr 19, 2009, at 9:16 AM, John Roberts wrote:

> Any bets on whether this 1600 lb behemoth is gonna have a stable  
> flight?


I calculate a thrust/weight of 25, assuming all motor ignite.

From andrewm at hawkfeather.com  Sun Apr 19 11:12:13 2009
From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:12:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 1/10 scale Saturn V
In-Reply-To: <C71C1C7E-C800-49E9-9E59-1B038453D097@mac.com>
References: <B4D6FC49-66F7-4163-948D-0471B772DB53@mac.com>
	<C71C1C7E-C800-49E9-9E59-1B038453D097@mac.com>
Message-ID: <49EB697D.8070600@hawkfeather.com>

Looks like a ~40' launch tower for a 36' rocket, but it really depends 
on where the guides are for what's usable.

Andrew.

John Roberts wrote:
> On Apr 19, 2009, at 9:16 AM, John Roberts wrote:
> 
>> Any bets on whether this 1600 lb behemoth is gonna have a stable  
>> flight?
> 
> 
> I calculate a thrust/weight of 25, assuming all motor ignite.

From jhadv at pacifier.com  Sun Apr 19 12:16:36 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:16:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 1/10 Saturn
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1240167603.10847.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090419121110.00c5fe80@mail.iinet.com>

One would hope that for a project of that size and complexity that it is 
gyroscopically stabilized.  It would be less expensive than two of the 
motors and probably help the flight characteristics quite a bit.  Just as 
an aside I didn't think the engine profile was that well considered.  It 
looks to me as if the engine selection was determined by availability or 
some other practical consideration(s) rather than straight design 
concerns.  Still it should be an awesome flight or attempt at a 
flight.  Loud that's for sure.  Would be fun to go and watch.        


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Sun Apr 19 12:32:39 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:32:39 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 1/10 scale Saturn V
In-Reply-To: <49EB697D.8070600@hawkfeather.com>
References: <B4D6FC49-66F7-4163-948D-0471B772DB53@mac.com><C71C1C7E-C800-49E9-9E59-1B038453D097@mac.com>
	<49EB697D.8070600@hawkfeather.com>
Message-ID: <D49585BF194A44EA886A36211B119890@Mobile2>

As Wilkerson said just before they pushed the button on HoJo, "whatever
happens, it is gonna be cool". 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Andrew MacMillen
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 11:12 AM
To: NorthWest Rocketry
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 1/10 scale Saturn V

Looks like a ~40' launch tower for a 36' rocket, but it really depends on
where the guides are for what's usable.

Andrew.

John Roberts wrote:
> On Apr 19, 2009, at 9:16 AM, John Roberts wrote:
> 
>> Any bets on whether this 1600 lb behemoth is gonna have a stable 
>> flight?
> 
> 
> I calculate a thrust/weight of 25, assuming all motor ignite.
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From eas0171 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 13:12:58 2009
From: eas0171 at gmail.com (Eugene Samsonov)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:12:58 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet (GPS trackers)
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <056BB55B486D4F89A95F7B735855007D@stktksrv>

Since this is not the first time I am seeing folks mention their attempts at 
GPS trackers, I thought I'd share my experience with it. One can visit 
http://www.tandemrocketry.com/ to see what my prototype looked like. At some 
point I was considering it as a "commercial" project, but then abandoned the 
idea. Still, I flew it a few dozen times (and will likely continue flying if 
the LEUP thing goes away), and it is a lot of fun. It even kinda demotes the 
urge to build a dual-deploy birds, as tracking a simple high flyer now 
becomes possible. Now, the key take aways from the project:

1. Batteries pop out at shute ejection. Tracking is obviously lost after 
that. Solution: duct tape (or PCB redesign with a solid steel battery 
holder)

2. GPS unit looses tracking at launch. This is a hard one, where I suspect 
it all depends on the particular type of the GPS unit used. Most of those 
are likely consumer-grade, and probably not designed to be used in a high-g 
/ high-velocity mode. It is not the hardware that glitches, but most likely 
the math. Solution: trying out a bunch of different models...

2a. GPS unit does not provide altitude data. When at launch pad, altitude 
numbers look fine. But after take off, they become mostly random...

3. Antenna size, orientation, max distance. I was never able to get a signal 
much beyond couple miles at best, though the stated distance is said to be 
around 20 miles for the 1 watt transmitter used with the "full-size" antenna 
shown

4. The lack of hand-held receiver. The receiver box is connected to either a 
laptop or to a blue-toooth adaper talking to a PocketPC. With either of 
these one is stuck within 20 feet of one's vehicle (where the power is). 
Solution: invest a few hundred thousand bucks into a custom hand-held device 
:)

Considering the amount of effort it would require to solve the issues above 
and the tiny niche market for the device, I decided to keep the project at 
its "propotype" stage :)


-Eugene


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Clark" <bigredbee at gmail.com>
To: "Bill Munds" <appusher at q.com>
Cc: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet


> I'm working on a prototype 900 Mhz license free GPS tracker -- stop by
> and see it at the Brother's May launch!
>
> -- Greg
>
> On 4/18/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
>> Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff.  Nah! 
>> Trying to get rockets ready to fly.
>>
>>  Me.  I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is, 
>> at only 4yrs old.  Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay 
>> on the Binder Sentinel.  I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.
>>  The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the 
>> lines of a K185.  Should be fun.
>>
>>  See ya all at the launch,
>>
>>  mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
>>  http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood 
>> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE 
>> GREATER GOOD
>>  Join me
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>  Rockets mailing list
>>  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>>  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> 


From keithp at keithp.com  Sun Apr 19 14:35:26 2009
From: keithp at keithp.com (Keith Packard)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:35:26 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet (GPS trackers)
In-Reply-To: <056BB55B486D4F89A95F7B735855007D@stktksrv>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<056BB55B486D4F89A95F7B735855007D@stktksrv>
Message-ID: <1240176926.16350.16.camel@aiko.keithp.com>

On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 13:12 -0700, Eugene Samsonov wrote:

> 1. Batteries pop out at shute ejection. Tracking is obviously lost after 
> that. Solution: duct tape (or PCB redesign with a solid steel battery 
> holder)

Yeah, I've soldered 9V batteries into flight computers in the past.
Works OK, but changing batteries on the rail is a challenge. Greg's
hardware, and my own TeleMetrum (http://altusmetrum.org) use 3.7V
rechargeable LiPo cells that can be more-or-less permanently affixed to
the rocket and recharged before flight. Couple that with a USB charging
circuit, and you can recharge almost anywhere.

> 2. GPS unit looses tracking at launch. This is a hard one, where I suspect 
> it all depends on the particular type of the GPS unit used. Most of those 
> are likely consumer-grade, and probably not designed to be used in a high-g 
> / high-velocity mode. It is not the hardware that glitches, but most likely 
> the math. Solution: trying out a bunch of different models...

The PSAS (http://psas.pdx.edu) GPS unit tracked all the way up and back
down on one flight; perhaps having an external cylindrical patch antenna
on the outside of the rocket and an amplifier helped? A previous
version, with a simple internal patch antenna, lost lock (and went nuts)
after chute ejection. It re-acquired the signal closer to the ground, so
recovery of the rocket was fairly easy.

TeleMetrum provides a 3.3V serial interface, and I've got a SiRF III
board plugged in now, but I haven't flown that yet. Will be very
interesting to see if it works.

> 2a. GPS unit does not provide altitude data. When at launch pad, altitude 
> numbers look fine. But after take off, they become mostly random...

Altitude numbers from GPS are never very good; having a pressure
altimeter in addition to the GPS makes it possible to use both as a
check. And, yeah, solving GPS is easier when you limit what velocity and
acceleration you consider 'reasonable'.

> 3. Antenna size, orientation, max distance. I was never able to get a signal 
> much beyond couple miles at best, though the stated distance is said to be 
> around 20 miles for the 1 watt transmitter used with the "full-size" antenna 
> shown

TeleMetrum runs down at 70cm (435MHz). At 10dBm I am concerned about
range. We'll use a yagi for the receiver end, instead of a simple
vertical, so that'll give us quite a bit of additional range. Experience
with Greg's cc1050-driven BeeLine seems to indicate that we'll have
plenty of range though.

> 4. The lack of hand-held receiver. The receiver box is connected to either a 
> laptop or to a blue-toooth adaper talking to a PocketPC. With either of 
> these one is stuck within 20 feet of one's vehicle (where the power is). 
> Solution: invest a few hundred thousand bucks into a custom hand-held device 
> :)

We're building another board, TeleTerra, that will hold a 4-line LCD
screen to report position from the TeleMetrum. It will have a cable
running to a (partially populated) TeleMetrum board which will continue
to have the main processor and battery.

> Considering the amount of effort it would require to solve the issues above 
> and the tiny niche market for the device, I decided to keep the project at 
> its "propotype" stage :)

Yeah, making things in commercial volume is way too much work. I'm
really glad Greg is willing to build useful stuff. TeleMetrum is just a
hobby project, although as the hardware and software are all freely
licensed, anyone could take the design and build commercial versions
without paying any royalty to us.

-- 
keith.packard at intel.com
-------------- next part --------------
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From absworld at cet.com  Sun Apr 19 20:08:43 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:08:43 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet
In-Reply-To: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <015201c9c165$5157dc60$f4079520$@com>

I'm going to try multiplexing avionics prep with airframe paint.

All rocketrees have been launched but now everything is turning green with
its own set of hurdles.

All systems GO for next weekend.

boberT

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Munds
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 9:10 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet


Hmmmm.....nice day.....folks are probably out doing family stuff.  Nah!
Trying to get rockets ready to fly.

 

Me.  I'm just trying to keep up with the granddaughter, a runner she is, at
only 4yrs old.  Finally unwound, gives grandpa time to finish the ebay on
the Binder Sentinel.  I will have the booster for it ready by FITS.

The booster is going to be a 54mm hybrid staging to something along the
lines of a K185.  Should be fun.

 

See ya all at the launch,

 

Bill at PSP










 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
-------------- next part --------------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2066 - Release Date: 04/18/09 09:55:00

From terry at mooreread.com  Sun Apr 19 20:57:13 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:57:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Drag race ?
Message-ID: <A7FDB35F-F15F-4C16-9269-5D0A14B4F26F@mooreread.com>

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/331090main_2atpadair-lg_full.jpg



From lsagan123 at msn.com  Sun Apr 19 21:03:31 2009
From: lsagan123 at msn.com (Sareth Tes)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 04:03:31 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Drag race ?
In-Reply-To: <A7FDB35F-F15F-4C16-9269-5D0A14B4F26F@mooreread.com>
References: <A7FDB35F-F15F-4C16-9269-5D0A14B4F26F@mooreread.com>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W54CD5407E3AFD6EA5A2879E3760@phx.gbl>


Very cool shot, Too bad we have not yet done a dual launch other than in the silly Bruce Willis Movie.
 
> From: terry at mooreread.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:57:13 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Drag race ?
> 
> http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/331090main_2atpadair-lg_full.jpg
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
Very cool shot, Too bad we have not yet done a dual launch other than in the silly Bruce?Willis Movie.
?
> From: terry at mooreread.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:57:13 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Drag race ?
>
> http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/331090main_2atpadair-lg_full.jpg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From greg at blastzone.com  Sun Apr 19 22:28:16 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:28:16 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] It's quiet (GPS trackers)
In-Reply-To: <1240176926.16350.16.camel@aiko.keithp.com>
References: <BLU145-W3244FAEC82A9A2035C3329DC790@phx.gbl>	<bf3fe8020904182113x6290d8eej6cc8a475ba518bd6@mail.gmail.com>	<056BB55B486D4F89A95F7B735855007D@stktksrv>
	<1240176926.16350.16.camel@aiko.keithp.com>
Message-ID: <0ba201c9c178$cf0b9990$6d22ccb0$@com>

On the losing lock at boost issue, it depends on the flight profile, and how
you mount the electronics.  You'll have much MUCH better luck maintaining
lock if the unit is wrapped in bubble wrap or other padding and allowed to
float somewhat vs hard mounting the unit to the airframe like you would a
regular altimeter.  GPS engines don't like high G loads and REALLY don't
like vibration.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Keith Packard
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 2:35 PM
> To: Eugene Samsonov
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] It's quiet (GPS trackers)
> 
> On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 13:12 -0700, Eugene Samsonov wrote:
> 
> > 1. Batteries pop out at shute ejection. Tracking is obviously lost
> > after that. Solution: duct tape (or PCB redesign with a solid steel
> > battery
> > holder)
> 
> Yeah, I've soldered 9V batteries into flight computers in the past.
> Works OK, but changing batteries on the rail is a challenge. Greg's
hardware,
> and my own TeleMetrum (http://altusmetrum.org) use 3.7V rechargeable LiPo
> cells that can be more-or-less permanently affixed to the rocket and
recharged
> before flight. Couple that with a USB charging circuit, and you can
recharge
> almost anywhere.
> 
> > 2. GPS unit looses tracking at launch. This is a hard one, where I
> > suspect it all depends on the particular type of the GPS unit used.
> > Most of those are likely consumer-grade, and probably not designed to
> > be used in a high-g / high-velocity mode. It is not the hardware that
> > glitches, but most likely the math. Solution: trying out a bunch of
> different models...
> 
> The PSAS (http://psas.pdx.edu) GPS unit tracked all the way up and back
down
> on one flight; perhaps having an external cylindrical patch antenna on the
> outside of the rocket and an amplifier helped? A previous version, with a
> simple internal patch antenna, lost lock (and went nuts) after chute
ejection.
> It re-acquired the signal closer to the ground, so recovery of the rocket
was
> fairly easy.
> 
> TeleMetrum provides a 3.3V serial interface, and I've got a SiRF III board
> plugged in now, but I haven't flown that yet. Will be very interesting to
see
> if it works.
> 
> > 2a. GPS unit does not provide altitude data. When at launch pad,
> > altitude numbers look fine. But after take off, they become mostly
random...
> 
> Altitude numbers from GPS are never very good; having a pressure altimeter
in
> addition to the GPS makes it possible to use both as a check. And, yeah,
> solving GPS is easier when you limit what velocity and acceleration you
> consider 'reasonable'.
> 
> > 3. Antenna size, orientation, max distance. I was never able to get a
> > signal much beyond couple miles at best, though the stated distance is
> > said to be around 20 miles for the 1 watt transmitter used with the
> > "full-size" antenna shown
> 
> TeleMetrum runs down at 70cm (435MHz). At 10dBm I am concerned about
range.
> We'll use a yagi for the receiver end, instead of a simple vertical, so
> that'll give us quite a bit of additional range. Experience with Greg's
> cc1050-driven BeeLine seems to indicate that we'll have plenty of range
> though.
> 
> > 4. The lack of hand-held receiver. The receiver box is connected to
> > either a laptop or to a blue-toooth adaper talking to a PocketPC. With
> > either of these one is stuck within 20 feet of one's vehicle (where the
> power is).
> > Solution: invest a few hundred thousand bucks into a custom hand-held
> > device
> > :)
> 
> We're building another board, TeleTerra, that will hold a 4-line LCD
screen to
> report position from the TeleMetrum. It will have a cable running to a
> (partially populated) TeleMetrum board which will continue to have the
main
> processor and battery.
> 
> > Considering the amount of effort it would require to solve the issues
> > above and the tiny niche market for the device, I decided to keep the
> > project at its "propotype" stage :)
> 
> Yeah, making things in commercial volume is way too much work. I'm really
glad
> Greg is willing to build useful stuff. TeleMetrum is just a hobby project,
> although as the hardware and software are all freely licensed, anyone
could
> take the design and build commercial versions without paying any royalty
to
> us.
> 
> --
> keith.packard at intel.com


From greg at blastzone.com  Mon Apr 20 12:33:06 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:33:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
In-Reply-To: <bf3fe8020904161725r5be58cd0g32a290db389a8385@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com>	
	<620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2>	
	<011601c9bee1$b604b290$220e17b0$@com>	
	<E8D500AB07FC43EBB4794B7525BA0AF2@Mobile2>	
	<45911D962CFC4BD891C145FA79A92CA1@LaptopKrausert>	
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9C2@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>	
	<BLU145-W1255E5FD4A8C66B00D6FB7DC7A0@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904161725r5be58cd0g32a290db389a8385@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0dca01c9c1ee$d478e600$7d6ab200$@com>

So it went smoothly.  Inspector Donaldson was very professional and easy to
work with.  Checked magazine, counted inventory, went over paperwork, all
the same old stuff.  All good.    

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Clark
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:26 PM
> To: Bill Munds
> Cc: Peter Schurke; Robert Krausert; Scott T. Bowers; Greg Deputy;
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> 
> I get inspected every three years, and I have no storage.  I expect to
> get a call any day now, as my LEUP expires in July.
> 
> I think a lot of us got our LEUPS about the same time 6 years ago --
> perhaps that explains why we're all getting inspected again.
> 
> -- Greg
> 
> On 4/16/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >
> >  paper trail, paper trail, paper trail...... but then again the storage
> magazine would have that.
> >
> >  Things that make you go ........Hhhmmmmmmm.
> >  http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood
> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER
> GOOD
> >  Join me
> >
> >  > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:44:59 -0700
> >  > From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org
> >  > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; scott at scottsrockets.com;
> greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >  >
> >  > Huh? Wouldn't that be the very definition of a useless government
> >  > operation?
> >  >
> >  > I mean...if they have contingent storage, then they don't actually
have
> >  > any storage of their own...so what would there be to inspect? Their
> >  > storage buddy's magazine somewhere else?
> >  >
> >  > Dazed and Confused...
> >  >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >  > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
> >  > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:39 PM
> >  > To: Scott T Bowers; 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >  >
> >  > Are all these inspections of Lic holders w/ storage? Anyone with
> >  > contingent storage being inspected?
> >  >
> >  > Cheers,
> >  > Robert
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > ----- Original Message -----
> >  > From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>
> >  > To: "'Greg Deputy'" <greg at blastzone.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
> >  > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:15 PM
> >  > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > > Just seems A LOT of folks all of the sudden needed a visit. Hard to
> >  > say if
> >  > > activity is up or if more folks are talking about it.
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > Scott T. Bowers
> >  > > www.scottsrockets.com
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > -----Original Message-----
> >  > > From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]
> >  > > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:22 PM
> >  > > To: 'Scott T Bowers'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >  > >
> >  > > Could be, she did ask if I was planning on renewing. I am, and told
> >  > her
> >  > > so,
> >  > > but I don't think that would have made a difference. My leup
expires
> >  > in
> >  > > june.
> >  > >
> >  > > I just hope its not like last time where the inspector seemed to be
> >  > trying
> >  > > to fill her quota for violations write ups.
> >  > >
> >  > >> -----Original Message-----
> >  > >> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
> >  > >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM
> >  > >> To: 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue thing?
> >  > Get
> >  > >> the cash you can?
> >  > >>
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Scott T. Bowers
> >  > >> www.scottsrockets.com
> >  > >>
> >  > >>
> >  > >> -----Original Message-----
> >  > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> >  > >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >  > >> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> >  > >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM
> >  > >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday.
> >  > >> Yea...
> >  > >>
> >  > >> _______________________________________________
> >  > >> Rockets mailing list
> >  > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >  > >>
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > _______________________________________________
> >  > > Rockets mailing list
> >  > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >  > >
> >  >
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > Rockets mailing list
> >  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >  >
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > Rockets mailing list
> >  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >  >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  Rockets mailing list
> >  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Mon Apr 20 13:04:29 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:04:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
In-Reply-To: <0dca01c9c1ee$d478e600$7d6ab200$@com>
References: <010701c9bede$8dc00a80$a9401f80$@com>	
	<620514B0BE4B4BBBAC16309DD8B610B4@Mobile2>	
	<011601c9bee1$b604b290$220e17b0$@com>	
	<E8D500AB07FC43EBB4794B7525BA0AF2@Mobile2>	
	<45911D962CFC4BD891C145FA79A92CA1@LaptopKrausert>	
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9C2@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>	
	<BLU145-W1255E5FD4A8C66B00D6FB7DC7A0@phx.gbl>
	<bf3fe8020904161725r5be58cd0g32a290db389a8385@mail.gmail.com>
	<0dca01c9c1ee$d478e600$7d6ab200$@com>
Message-ID: <F67F94AE331B4F179623E9744BE9042A@Mobile2>

Good to here the locals are not nit picking. 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:33 PM
To: 'Greg Clark'; 'Bill Munds'
Cc: 'Peter Schurke'; 'Robert Krausert'; 'Scott T. Bowers';
rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy

So it went smoothly.  Inspector Donaldson was very professional and easy to
work with.  Checked magazine, counted inventory, went over paperwork, all
the same old stuff.  All good.    

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of 
> Greg
Clark
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:26 PM
> To: Bill Munds
> Cc: Peter Schurke; Robert Krausert; Scott T. Bowers; Greg Deputy; 
> rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> 
> I get inspected every three years, and I have no storage.  I expect to 
> get a call any day now, as my LEUP expires in July.
> 
> I think a lot of us got our LEUPS about the same time 6 years ago -- 
> perhaps that explains why we're all getting inspected again.
> 
> -- Greg
> 
> On 4/16/09, Bill Munds <appusher at q.com> wrote:
> >
> >  paper trail, paper trail, paper trail...... but then again the 
> > storage
> magazine would have that.
> >
> >  Things that make you go ........Hhhmmmmmmm.
> >  http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood
> http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE 
> GREATER GOOD
> >  Join me
> >
> >  > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:44:59 -0700  > From: 
> > pmschurke at seattleschools.org  > To: lawndart.robert at gmail.com; 
> > scott at scottsrockets.com;
> greg at blastzone.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy
> >  >
> >  > Huh? Wouldn't that be the very definition of a useless government  
> > > operation?
> >  >
> >  > I mean...if they have contingent storage, then they don't 
> > actually
have
> >  > any storage of their own...so what would there be to inspect? 
> > Their  > storage buddy's magazine somewhere else?
> >  >
> >  > Dazed and Confused...
> >  >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com  > 
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert  
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:39 PM  > To: Scott T Bowers; 
> > 'Greg Deputy'; rockets at rocketsnw.com  > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] 
> > Yippy Skippy  >  > Are all these inspections of Lic holders w/ 
> > storage? Anyone with  > contingent storage being inspected?
> >  >
> >  > Cheers,
> >  > Robert
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > ----- Original Message -----
> >  > From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>  > To: "'Greg 
> > Deputy'" <greg at blastzone.com>; <rockets at rocketsnw.com>  > Sent: 
> > Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:15 PM  > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Yippy 
> > Skippy  >  >  > > Just seems A LOT of folks all of the sudden needed 
> > a visit. Hard to  > say if  > > activity is up or if more folks are 
> > talking about it.
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > Scott T. Bowers
> >  > > www.scottsrockets.com
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > -----Original Message-----
> >  > > From: Greg Deputy [mailto:greg at blastzone.com]  > > Sent: 
> > Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:22 PM  > > To: 'Scott T Bowers'; 
> > rockets at rocketsnw.com  > > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy  > 
> > >  > > Could be, she did ask if I was planning on renewing. I am, 
> > and told  > her  > > so,  > > but I don't think that would have made 
> > a difference. My leup
expires
> >  > in
> >  > > june.
> >  > >
> >  > > I just hope its not like last time where the inspector seemed 
> > to be  > trying  > > to fill her quota for violations write ups.
> >  > >
> >  > >> -----Original Message-----
> >  > >> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]  > >> 
> > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:19 PM  > >> To: 'Greg Deputy'; 
> > rockets at rocketsnw.com  > >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy  > 
> > >>  > >> Seems they are really going fast. You think it is a revenue 
> > thing?
> >  > Get
> >  > >> the cash you can?
> >  > >>
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Scott T. Bowers
> >  > >> www.scottsrockets.com
> >  > >>
> >  > >>
> >  > >> -----Original Message-----
> >  > >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com  > >> 
> > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> >  > >> On Behalf Of Greg Deputy
> >  > >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:59 PM  > >> To: 
> > rockets at rocketsnw.com  > >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Yippy Skippy  > >>  
> > > >> Just got a call from the ATF, my turn for an inspection on Monday.
> >  > >> Yea...
> >  > >>
> >  > >> _______________________________________________
> >  > >> Rockets mailing list
> >  > >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >  > >>
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > _______________________________________________
> >  > > Rockets mailing list
> >  > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >  > >
> >  >
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > Rockets mailing list
> >  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >  >
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > Rockets mailing list
> >  > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >  >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  Rockets mailing list
> >  Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> >  http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >



From Bret.Simpkins at pnl.gov  Mon Apr 20 15:04:52 2009
From: Bret.Simpkins at pnl.gov (Simpkins, Bret E)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:04:52 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Cesaroni Vendor
Message-ID: <9F6B45159B88D2428A8B96142B95002F059EB975@EMAIL01.pnl.gov>

Will there be a Cesaroni vendor at Mansfield this weekend?  I have
enough AP in my magazine for the launch, but I'm always lookin' to stock
up.

Bret
-------------- next part --------------
Cesaroni Vendor
Will there be a
Cesaroni vendor at Mansfield this weekend?? I have enough AP in my magazine for the launch, but I
???
m always lookin
???
to stock up.
Bret

From kent.newman at comcast.net  Tue Apr 21 07:22:06 2009
From: kent.newman at comcast.net (Kent Newman)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:22:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
Message-ID: <000001c9c28c$8d0784e0$a7168ea0$@newman@comcast.net>

Greetings, all!

 

Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this
weekend, April 25-26th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on
Hwy 172.  Specific directions may be found at the WAC website,
www.washingtonaerospace.org.

 

Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at
this launch.  Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.

 

For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your
paperwork.   NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be
available.  

 

Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.
Have checkbooks in hand!

 

Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather
conditions at this very moment.   Rain possibilities are nil to minimal,
skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.

 

Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take
advantage of the amenities offered there.   It's amazing how good a burger,
fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the
sun.   Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for
your cooler at the same time.

 

Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors

-------------- next part --------------
Greetings, all!
?
Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this weekend, April 25-26
th
, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on Hwy 172.? Specific directions may be found at the WAC website, http://www.washingtonaerospace.org www.washingtonaerospace.org
.
?
Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at this launch.? Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
?
For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your paperwork.?? NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be available.?
?
Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.?? Have checkbooks in hand!
?
Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather conditions at this very moment.?? Rain possibilities are nil to minimal, skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.
?
Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take advantage of the amenities offered there. It???s amazing how good a burger, fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the sun. Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for your cooler at the same time.
?
Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors

From absworld at cet.com  Tue Apr 21 07:59:12 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:59:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
In-Reply-To: <000001c9c28c$8d0784e0$a7168ea0$@newman@comcast.net>
References: <000001c9c28c$8d0784e0$a7168ea0$@newman@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <02f301c9c291$bb9c9f20$32d5dd60$@com>

I was in tears with the Mansfield forecast a couple days ago.
Sent a message to Mister Launch Director and voila, forecast improved
dramatically.

Go Mark!!

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Kent Newman
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:22 AM
To: WAC Members
Cc: Rockets NW list
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch

Greetings, all!

 

Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this
weekend, April 25-26th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on
Hwy 172.  Specific directions may be found at the WAC website,
www.washingtonaerospace.org.

 

Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at
this launch.  Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.

 

For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your
paperwork.   NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be
available.  

 

Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.
Have checkbooks in hand!

 

Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather
conditions at this very moment.   Rain possibilities are nil to minimal,
skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.

 

Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take
advantage of the amenities offered there.   It's amazing how good a burger,
fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the
sun.   Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for
your cooler at the same time.

 

Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors

-------------- next part --------------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.1/2069 - Release Date: 04/20/09 10:36:00

From appusher at q.com  Tue Apr 21 08:10:02 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:10:02 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
In-Reply-To: <02f301c9c291$bb9c9f20$32d5dd60$@com>
References: <000001c9c28c$8d0784e0$a7168ea0$@newman@comcast.net>
	<02f301c9c291$bb9c9f20$32d5dd60$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W142EB93A0CF226DA5FA6BDC770@phx.gbl>


Yes, thankyou Mr. Direstor.

 

And, yes, The AP Dispensary will be enthusiastically attending.

 

Hybrid GSE will also be attending.

 

Dave and Bill

Gas Passer and AP Pusher











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: absworld at cet.com
> To: members at washingtonaerospace.org
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:59:12 -0700
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
> 
> I was in tears with the Mansfield forecast a couple days ago.
> Sent a message to Mister Launch Director and voila, forecast improved
> dramatically.
> 
> Go Mark!!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Kent Newman
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:22 AM
> To: WAC Members
> Cc: Rockets NW list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
> 
> Greetings, all!
> 
> 
> 
> Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this
> weekend, April 25-26th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on
> Hwy 172. Specific directions may be found at the WAC website,
> www.washingtonaerospace.org.
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at
> this launch. Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
> 
> 
> 
> For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your
> paperwork. NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be
> available. 
> 
> 
> 
> Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.
> Have checkbooks in hand!
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather
> conditions at this very moment. Rain possibilities are nil to minimal,
> skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.
> 
> 
> 
> Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take
> advantage of the amenities offered there. It's amazing how good a burger,
> fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the
> sun. Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for
> your cooler at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors
> 
-------------- next part --------------
Yes, thankyou Mr. Direstor.
?
And, yes, The AP Dispensary will be enthusiastically attending.
?
Hybrid GSE will also be attending.
?
Dave and Bill
Gas Passer and AP Pusher
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> From: absworld at cet.com
> To: members at washingtonaerospace.org
> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:59:12 -0700
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
>
> I was in tears with the Mansfield forecast a couple days ago.
> Sent a message to Mister Launch Director and voila, forecast improved
> dramatically.
>
> Go Mark!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Kent Newman
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:22 AM
> To: WAC Members
> Cc: Rockets NW list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
>
> Greetings, all!
>
>
>
> Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this
> weekend, April 25-26th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on
> Hwy 172. Specific directions may be found at the WAC website,
> www.washingtonaerospace.org.
>
>
>
> Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at
> this launch. Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
>
>
>
> For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your
> paperwork. NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be
> available.
>
>
>
> Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.
> Have checkbooks in hand!
>
>
>
> Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather
> conditions at this very moment. Rain possibilities are nil to minimal,
> skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.
>
>
>
> Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take
> advantage of the amenities offered there. It's amazing how good a burger,
> fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the
> sun. Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for
> your cooler at the same time.
>
>
>
> Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors
>

From fred_bare at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 21 10:52:08 2009
From: fred_bare at yahoo.com (Fred Bare)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Spring Tune-up Launch
Message-ID: <56547.79506.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bill
When are you and Dave leaving to go east?
Greg


      
-------------- next part --------------
Bill
When are you and Dave leaving to go east?
Greg

From carl at mousetrap.com  Tue Apr 21 13:26:45 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:26:45 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Washington Aerospace membership
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0904211326u4e32569fp78ee1572c595779d@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the wide distribution. If you are a Washington Aerospace member in
good standing through 2009 or if you don't care to become a Washington
Aerospace member, you can stop reading now.
Washington Aerospace's first launch of the season is this weekend and Fire
In the Sky is just a month away. Now is a great time to join the club or
renew your membership for 2009. In addition to saying that you are part of
the club, membership allows you and your family to attend all WAC launches
for the year without additional range fees. At $40/year, it's a bargain!

If your membership is current for 2009, you should have received email from
me recently confirming this. If your membership has lapsed, or if you are
interested in joining for the first time, please visit
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/membership_form.php and complete the
online registration process. If you would rather register via postal mail or
in person, please follow the link above and then click the "WAC membership
form" link to print a paper form.

To make my life easier, I have created a web-based form that you can use to
create a legible version of our liability waiver. You must have a signed
waiver on file before attending your first Washington Aerospace launch each
year. To use the online form, please visit
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php. If you would rather do
things the old way, please follow the link and then click the "WAC Liability
Waiver" link to print a paper form.

I have made some changes to the forms this year. Please let me know if you
have any trouble with them.

Thanks.

 - Carl
-------------- next part --------------
Washington Aerospace's first launch of the season is this weekend and Fire In the Sky is just a month away. Now is a great time to join the club or renew your membership for 2009.?In addition to saying that you are part of the club, membership allows you and your family to attend all WAC launches for the year without additional range fees. At $40/year, it's a bargain!
If your membership is current for 2009, you should have received email from me recently confirming this. If your membership has lapsed, or if you are interested in joining for the first time, please visit? http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/membership_form.php http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/membership_form.php
?and complete the online registration process. If you would rather register via postal mail or in person, please follow the link above and then click the "WAC membership form" link to print a paper form.
To make my life easier, I have created a web-based form that you can use to create a legible version of our liability waiver. You must have a signed waiver on file before attending your first Washington Aerospace launch each year. To use the online form, please visit http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php
. If you would rather do things the old way, please follow the link and then click the "WAC Liability Waiver" link to print a paper form.
I have made some changes to the forms this year. Please let me know if you have any trouble with them.
Thanks.
?- Carl

From appusher at q.com  Tue Apr 21 18:45:19 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:45:19 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield launch this weekend ?!!
Message-ID: <BLU145-W13405341C37D47EA371DCFDC740@phx.gbl>



I'm taking a few movies with me to the launch.  Rocket related by the way.

 

Anybody have a video projector that we could shoot it onto a trailer side or?

Rockets,Popcorn, beer, and a movie.......................priceless!

 

Bill at PSP









 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
-------------- next part --------------
I'm taking a few movies with me to the launch.? Rocket related by the way.
?
Anybody have a video projector that we could shoot it onto a trailer side or?
Rockets,Popcorn, beer, and a movie.......................priceless!
?
mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com  Wed Apr 22 09:41:42 2009
From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:41:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] CTI Pro75 Classic propellant issues
Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368805DD49F344@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net>




It has been brought to our attention and confirmed by the manufacturer, that CTI Pro75 Classic propellant used in the K510, L800, L1115, and M1400 motors reloads manufactured prior to November 2008 may have a reliability issue due to propellant grain cracking. This condition can cause motor over-pressurization resulting in motor failure. If you have one of these reloads that was manufactured prior to November 2008 in your motor inventory, please contact your Dealer. 


Contact information for CTI:

            Sandi White 
            Cesaroni Technology Inc.
            http://pro38.com/contact.php



NAR Standards & Testing
Tripoli Motor Testing
CAR Motor Certification Committee

From brodwcjj at integrity.com  Wed Apr 22 10:36:00 2009
From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:36:00 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1240340403.28256.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
References: <mailman.3.1240340403.28256.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <20090422123600.1972838yeeftn5og@wm.integrity.com>

OK  you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
          How do they do it ?

http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.pdf

The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they  
list, (IE: no exotic elements)

Dustin

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Wed Apr 22 11:09:47 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 11:09:47 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
In-Reply-To: <20090422123600.1972838yeeftn5og@wm.integrity.com>
References: <mailman.3.1240340403.28256.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<20090422123600.1972838yeeftn5og@wm.integrity.com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9FB@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable,
but electrically labile.  Decomposes under charge, but insensitive to
heat.

My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin'
cool!"

Peter Schurke
(Chemistry) Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
Seattle, WA 
(And all but Ph.D. in Medicinal Chemistry)

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of
brodwcjj at integrity.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant

OK  you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
          How do they do it ?

http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.p
df

The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they
list, (IE: no exotic elements)

Dustin
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From sb at berfield.com  Wed Apr 22 12:11:52 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:11:52 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
Message-ID: <W2745014424312981240427512@webmail39>

I believe it works on an FM principle -- "f-ing magic"


-----Original Message-----
From: Schurke, Peter [mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:09 AM
To: brodwcjj at integrity.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant

My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable,but electrically labile. Decomposes under charge, but insensitive toheat.My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin'cool!"Peter Schurke(Chemistry) Teacher and Lead AdvisorIngraham Aerospace Sciences AcademyIngraham High SchoolSeattle, WA (And all but Ph.D. in Medicinal Chemistry)-----Original Message-----From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Ofbrodwcjj at integrity.comSent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AMTo: rockets at rocketsnw.comSubject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellantOK you chemists and electrical wizards out there: How do they do it ?http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.pdfThe only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products theylist, (IE: no exotic elements)Dustin_______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________Rockets mailing listRockets at rocketsnw.comhttp://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
-------------- next part --------------
I believe it works on an FM principle -- "f-ing magic"
?
-----Original Message-----
From:
Schurke, Peter [mailto:pmschurke at seattleschools.org]
Sent:
Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:09 AM
To:
brodwcjj at integrity.com, rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject:
Re: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable, but electrically labile. Decomposes under charge, but insensitive to heat. My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin' cool!" Peter Schurke (Chemistry) Teacher and Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School Seattle, WA (And all but Ph.D. in Medicinal Chemistry) -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of brodwcjj at integrity.com Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant OK you chemists and electrical wizards out there: How do they do it ? http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.p df The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they list, (IE: no exotic elements) Dustin _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Wed Apr 22 12:25:40 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:25:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9FB@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <mailman.3.1240340403.28256.rockets@rocketsnw.com>	<20090422123600.1972838yeeftn5og@wm.integrity.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9FB@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <009c01c9c380$203b09a0$60b11ce0$@net>

Peter's explanation sounds likely.  I also imagine that it is not very
efficient - the KE of the thrust will be far less than the chemical and
electrical energy in.

Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:10 AM
To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant

My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable,
but electrically labile.  Decomposes under charge, but insensitive to
heat.

My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin'
cool!"

Peter Schurke
(Chemistry) Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
Seattle, WA 
(And all but Ph.D. in Medicinal Chemistry)

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of
brodwcjj at integrity.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant

OK  you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
          How do they do it ?

http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.p
df

The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they
list, (IE: no exotic elements)

Dustin
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From brodwcjj at integrity.com  Wed Apr 22 12:47:51 2009
From: brodwcjj at integrity.com (brodwcjj at integrity.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:47:51 -0500
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
In-Reply-To: <009c01c9c380$203b09a0$60b11ce0$@net>
References: <mailman.3.1240340403.28256.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<20090422123600.1972838yeeftn5og@wm.integrity.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9FB@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
	<009c01c9c380$203b09a0$60b11ce0$@net>
Message-ID: <20090422144751.87716g299cui4z0o@wm.integrity.com>

Yes  they didn't mention  ISPs that I could find,   and I just noticed  
the title says "Thruster and Ignition systems"
   (as opposed to "Rocket Motor Beasts!")
    Still cool either way.


Quoting Marty2 <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>:

> Peter's explanation sounds likely.  I also imagine that it is not very
> efficient - the KE of the thrust will be far less than the chemical and
> electrical energy in.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:10 AM
> To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
>
> My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable,
> but electrically labile.  Decomposes under charge, but insensitive to
> heat.
>
> My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin'
> cool!"
>
> Peter Schurke
> (Chemistry) Teacher and Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> Seattle, WA
> (And all but Ph.D. in Medicinal Chemistry)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of
> brodwcjj at integrity.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
>
> OK  you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
>           How do they do it ?
>
> http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.p
> df
>
> The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they
> list, (IE: no exotic elements)
>
> Dustin
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>


From clappfamily at comcast.net  Wed Apr 22 12:59:45 2009
From: clappfamily at comcast.net (clappfamily at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:59:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
In-Reply-To: <20090422144751.87716g299cui4z0o@wm.integrity.com>
Message-ID: <730151565.695731240430385795.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>



I remember a number of years ago they had a solid fuel motor that could be controlled by injecting a catalyst gas into the combustion chamber.?? I don't know whatever happened with that technology . 





Rick 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: brodwcjj @integrity.com 
To: "Marty2" < MartyWeiser @comcast.net> 
Cc: rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:47:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Throttle control your solid propellant 

Yes ??they didn't mention ?? ISPs that I could find, ?? and I just noticed ?? 
the title says "Thruster and Ignition systems" 
???? (as opposed to "Rocket Motor Beasts!") 
???? ??Still cool either way. 


Quoting Marty2 < MartyWeiser @comcast.net>: 

> Peter's explanation sounds likely. ??I also imagine that it is not very 
> efficient - the KE of the thrust will be far less than the chemical and 
> electrical energy in. 
> 
> Marty 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com [ mailto :rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com] 
> On Behalf Of Schurke , Peter 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:10 AM 
> To: brodwcjj @integrity.com; rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
> Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Throttle control your solid propellant 
> 
> My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable, 
> but electrically labile. ??Decomposes under charge, but insensitive to 
> heat. 
> 
> My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin' 
> cool!" 
> 
> Peter Schurke 
> (Chemistry) Teacher and Lead Advisor 
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy 
> Ingraham High School 
> Seattle, WA 
> (And all but Ph .D. in Medicinal Chemistry) 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com 
> [ mailto :rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com] On Behalf Of 
> brodwcjj @integrity.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AM 
> To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
> Subject: [ RocketsNW ] Throttle control your solid propellant 
> 
> OK ??you chemists and electrical wizards out there: 
> ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? How do they do it ? 
> 
> http :// www . virtualacquisitionshowcase .com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.p 
> df 
> 
> The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they 
> list, (IE: no exotic elements) 
> 
> Dustin 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
> http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
> http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets 
> 
> 
> 

_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets 
???? 
-------------- next part --------------
I remember a number of years ago they had a solid fuel motor that could be controlled by injecting a catalyst gas into the combustion chamber.? I don't know whatever happened with that technology.
?
?
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: brodwcjj at integrity.com
To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:47:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
Yes ?they didn't mention ?ISPs that I could find, ? and I just noticed ?
the title says "Thruster and Ignition systems"
?? (as opposed to "Rocket Motor Beasts!")
?? ?Still cool either way.
Quoting Marty2 <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>:
> Peter's explanation sounds likely. ?I also imagine that it is not very
> efficient - the KE of the thrust will be far less than the chemical and
> electrical energy in.
>
> Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:10 AM
> To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
>
> My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable,
> but electrically labile. ?Decomposes under charge, but insensitive to
> heat.
>
> My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin'
> cool!"
>
> Peter Schurke
> (Chemistry) Teacher and Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> Seattle, WA
> (And all but Ph.D. in Medicinal Chemistry)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of
> brodwcjj at integrity.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
>
> OK ?you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
> ? ? ? ? ? How do they do it ?
>
> http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.p
> df
>
> The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they
> list, (IE: no exotic elements)
>
> Dustin
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
??

From robert.krausert at intel.com  Wed Apr 22 13:19:29 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:19:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
In-Reply-To: <730151565.695731240430385795.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <20090422144751.87716g299cui4z0o@wm.integrity.com>
	<730151565.695731240430385795.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E3103CB06@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

We need Azinger to invent a Pellet Stove type system. Mini APCP grains feed into the chamber and ignite. Increase and decrease pellet volumes to control thrust. Small opening at the forward closure coupled to a pressure tight auger to feed pellets. Flyer only needs to controller the speed of the auger. Gravity wouldn't be a problem as the auger will either drop in (forward up) or pushed in (aft up). So ground static tests could still happen. I want royalties, please.

Called, RPSAP Grains. Rabbit Poop Size Ammonium Perchlorate grains.

Cheers,
Robert 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of clappfamily at comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:00 PM
To: brodwcjj at integrity.com
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com; Marty2
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant



I remember a number of years ago they had a solid fuel motor that could be controlled by injecting a catalyst gas into the combustion chamber.? I don't know whatever happened with that technology . 





Rick 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: brodwcjj @integrity.com 
To: "Marty2" < MartyWeiser @comcast.net> 
Cc: rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:47:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Throttle control your solid propellant 

Yes ?they didn't mention ? ISPs that I could find, ? and I just noticed ? 
the title says "Thruster and Ignition systems" 
?? (as opposed to "Rocket Motor Beasts!") 
?? ?Still cool either way. 


Quoting Marty2 < MartyWeiser @comcast.net>: 

> Peter's explanation sounds likely. ?I also imagine that it is not very 
> efficient - the KE of the thrust will be far less than the chemical and 
> electrical energy in. 
> 
> Marty 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com [ mailto :rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com] 
> On Behalf Of Schurke , Peter 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:10 AM 
> To: brodwcjj @integrity.com; rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
> Subject: Re: [ RocketsNW ] Throttle control your solid propellant 
> 
> My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable, 
> but electrically labile. ?Decomposes under charge, but insensitive to 
> heat. 
> 
> My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin' 
> cool!" 
> 
> Peter Schurke 
> (Chemistry) Teacher and Lead Advisor 
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy 
> Ingraham High School 
> Seattle, WA 
> (And all but Ph .D. in Medicinal Chemistry) 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com 
> [ mailto :rockets-bounces@ rocketsnw .com] On Behalf Of 
> brodwcjj @integrity.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AM 
> To: rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
> Subject: [ RocketsNW ] Throttle control your solid propellant 
> 
> OK ?you chemists and electrical wizards out there: 
> ? ? ? ? ? How do they do it ? 
> 
> http :// www . virtualacquisitionshowcase .com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.p 
> df 
> 
> The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they 
> list, (IE: no exotic elements) 
> 
> Dustin 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
> http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Rockets mailing list 
> Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
> http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets 
> 
> 
> 

_______________________________________________ 
Rockets mailing list 
Rockets@ rocketsnw .com 
http ://mx1. blastzone .com/mailman/ listinfo /rockets 
?? 

From jhadv at pacifier.com  Wed Apr 22 13:34:49 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:34:49 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] THROTTLE CONTROL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1240426804.23562.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090422132238.03906260@mail.iinet.com>


>OK  you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
>           How do they do it ?


How do they do what?  Control the thrust of a solid propellant motor or 
raise capital?  The document I saw looks like something designed for the 
latter rather than the former.  Be careful if someone mentions that they 
have an Intra-state offering registered and are looking for qualified 
investors.  Think about it.  if you were fishing around for funds for a 
project of this nature where would you look?  Now this response is not an 
opinion of any sort, kind or nature whatsoever concerning the merit, value 
or efficacy, if any, of the technology or the general methods suggested by 
the referenced document.  This is just a observation from someone in the 
business that in my professional opinion this is an attempt to generate 
interest pursuant to some form of fundraising.  Caveat emptor.



From jhadv at pacifier.com  Wed Apr 22 13:39:08 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:39:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] RPSAP Grains.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1070.1240431580.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090422133630.0391c890@mail.iinet.com>

Actually all the new nuclear power reactor technology uses an encased fuel 
pellet approach and they have solved the problem of controlled fuel 
introduction into a very hostile environment but the mass of the systems 
makes variants of that solution unsuitable for use in a rocket or missile.


At 01:19 PM 4/22/2009 -0700, you wrote:
>Called, RPSAP Grains. Rabbit Poop Size Ammonium Perchlorate grains.
>
>Cheers,
>Robert


From robert.krausert at intel.com  Wed Apr 22 13:53:13 2009
From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:53:13 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] RPSAP Grains.
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090422133630.0391c890@mail.iinet.com>
References: <mailman.1070.1240431580.22240.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090422133630.0391c890@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E3103CBA2@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com>

Maybe they did that... But not as cool.

I see mounting motorcycle handle bars to our prep table. Thumb flip switch to turn on electronics and ready launch. Then with the thumb press the starter button to light the motor. Once going, let the clutch out to engage the auger. Then accelerate with a wrist of the wrist, which increases the auger speed and more RPSAP into the case. Pull the clutch in when you're ready for burn out.  

It could work. No more 38mm or 98mm. We'll now talk around the evening fire about what size HAG (not hog, but Harley Auger Guide) and the Kilograms of pellets planned in tomorrows rocket. 

Cheers,
Robert




-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Paul Bogdanich
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:39 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] RPSAP Grains.

Actually all the new nuclear power reactor technology uses an encased fuel 
pellet approach and they have solved the problem of controlled fuel 
introduction into a very hostile environment but the mass of the systems 
makes variants of that solution unsuitable for use in a rocket or missile.


At 01:19 PM 4/22/2009 -0700, you wrote:
>Called, RPSAP Grains. Rabbit Poop Size Ammonium Perchlorate grains.
>
>Cheers,
>Robert

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Wed Apr 22 20:31:57 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:31:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Large Graphite. [AD]
Message-ID: <9247F96ACC764E4AA05CF76BC168B2AF@Mobile2>

I have large graphite rounds up to 12 inches and many lengths. They can be
used for BIG motors or you can use a hole saw on a slab of it for any
smaller size.
 
Hit me off list if you are interested in some pieces.
 
 
Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 
 
 
-------------- next part --------------
I have large graphite rounds up to 12 inches and many lengths. They can be used for BIG motors or you can use a hole saw on a slab of it for any smaller size.
?
Hit me off list if you are interested in some pieces.
?
?
Scott T. Bowers
http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com
?
?

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Thu Apr 23 07:41:16 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:41:16 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
Message-ID: <cbf.3a659117.3721d80c@aol.com>

Very interesting that the propellant is inert until current is  applied.  
Unless there is a way to control the nozzle aperture it will  suffer from 
performance loss at lower pressures/burn rates.  Cool  nonetheless.
 
Mike F. 
 
 
In a message dated 4/22/2009 10:36:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:

OK   you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
How do they do it  ?

http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.pdf

The  only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they   
list, (IE: no exotic  elements)

Dustin
_______________________________________________
Rockets  mailing  list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets



**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the 
web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
-------------- next part --------------
Very interesting that the propellant is inert until current is applied.? Unless there is a way to control the nozzle aperture it will suffer from performance loss at lower pressures/burn rates.? Cool nonetheless.
?
Mike F.?
?
In a message dated 4/22/2009 10:36:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, brodwcjj at integrity.com writes:
OK? you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
? ? ? ? ? How do they do it ?
http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.pdf
The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they?
list, (IE: no exotic elements)
Dustin
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
?
Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003 Get the Radio Toolbar
!

From aaronfogg at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 09:00:52 2009
From: aaronfogg at gmail.com (Aaron Fogg)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:00:52 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
Message-ID: <e1e3ba0b0904230900j23265926m76655e2dbb46a328@mail.gmail.com>

Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
-------------- next part --------------

-------------- next part --------------
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From greg at blastzone.com  Thu Apr 23 09:04:00 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
In-Reply-To: <e1e3ba0b0904230900j23265926m76655e2dbb46a328@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1e3ba0b0904230900j23265926m76655e2dbb46a328@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <199601c9c42d$1e2603b0$5a720b10$@com>

Cold smold.  Cold is fine.  Just keep the wind down and the rain away.  So
far so good.  Itchin to fly!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> 
> Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)


From rocketsrfun at msn.com  Thu Apr 23 09:11:17 2009
From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:11:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
In-Reply-To: <199601c9c42d$1e2603b0$5a720b10$@com>
References: <e1e3ba0b0904230900j23265926m76655e2dbb46a328@mail.gmail.com>
	<199601c9c42d$1e2603b0$5a720b10$@com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-W520B2443008F9229C7009ABD750@phx.gbl>


Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95% humidity, with a 15 mph breeze.  Yes,  Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back to that good ole Oregon chill.....

 

Don
 
> From: greg at blastzone.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> 
> Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away. So
> far so good. Itchin to fly!
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > 
> > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95% humidity, with a 15 mph breeze.? Yes,? Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back to that good ole Oregon chill.....
?
Don
?
> From: greg at blastzone.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
>
> Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away. So
> far so good. Itchin to fly!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From greg at blastzone.com  Thu Apr 23 09:17:47 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:17:47 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-W520B2443008F9229C7009ABD750@phx.gbl>
References: <e1e3ba0b0904230900j23265926m76655e2dbb46a328@mail.gmail.com>	<199601c9c42d$1e2603b0$5a720b10$@com>
	<BAY103-W520B2443008F9229C7009ABD750@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <19ac01c9c42f$0aede680$20c9b380$@com>

How are the flying fields there?  ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Don Harris
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 AM
> To: Rockets NW
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> 
> 
> Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95%
humidity,
> with a 15 mph breeze.  Yes,  Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back
to
> that good ole Oregon chill.....
> 
> 
> 
> Don
> 
> > From: greg at blastzone.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> > Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away.
> > So far so good. Itchin to fly!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > >
> > > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >


From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Thu Apr 23 09:44:47 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:44:47 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
In-Reply-To: <19ac01c9c42f$0aede680$20c9b380$@com>
References: <e1e3ba0b0904230900j23265926m76655e2dbb46a328@mail.gmail.com>
	<199601c9c42d$1e2603b0$5a720b10$@com>
	<BAY103-W520B2443008F9229C7009ABD750@phx.gbl>,
	<19ac01c9c42f$0aede680$20c9b380$@com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990C8AB1@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

There's plenty of places to fly in the Bahamas you just need to make your AV bay's water tight like they do in the UK.

b

________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Greg Deputy [greg at blastzone.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:17 AM
To: 'Don Harris'; 'Rockets NW'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!

How are the flying fields there?  ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Don Harris
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 AM
> To: Rockets NW
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
>
>
> Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95%
humidity,
> with a 15 mph breeze.  Yes,  Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back
to
> that good ole Oregon chill.....
>
>
>
> Don
>
> > From: greg at blastzone.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> > Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away.
> > So far so good. Itchin to fly!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > >
> > > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From fred_bare at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 23 09:49:53 2009
From: fred_bare at yahoo.com (Fred Bare)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:49:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!  Weekend Forecast
Message-ID: <961008.14192.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Here is the forecast for the weekend.? Looks pretty good.
Greg Wilson
?
?
?
Weather > 
North America >
United States >
Washington > 
Mansfield 
F? | C? 

Current conditions as of 8:53 am PDT 
Fair

Feels Like: 
48? 
Barometer: 
29.88 in and rising 
Humidity: 
32% 
Visibility: 
10 mi 
Dewpoint: 
19? 
Wind: 
NNW 20 mph 
Sunrise: 
5:55 am 
Sunset: 
8:01 pm 

48?
High: 50? Low: 31?

? Detailed Forecast 
? Records & Averages 
? Get Yahoo! Weather on your desktop 

  #yw-fivedayforecast tr.fiveday-icons div{ width:100%; } 





Today
Tomorrow
Sat
Sun
Mon
6-10 Day


Partly Cloudy

Mostly Sunny

Partly Cloudy/Wind

Partly Cloudy

Partly Cloudy
Extended Forecast

if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object();
window.yzq_d['nyI0DNj8el0-']='&U=13fc71ckl%2fN%3dnyI0DNj8el0-%2fC%3d385205.13241003.13378348.1666089%2fD%3dWTHE%2fB%3d3802593%2fV%3d1';

 

High: 50? 
Low: 31?
High: 58? 
Low: 35?
High: 60? 
Low: 35?
High: 62? 
Low: 39?
High: 61? 
Low: 39?

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:


From: Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
To: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>, "'Don Harris'" <rocketsrfun at msn.com>, "'Rockets NW'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 9:44 AM


There's plenty of places to fly in the Bahamas you just need to make your AV bay's water tight like they do in the UK.

b

________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Greg Deputy [greg at blastzone.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:17 AM
To: 'Don Harris'; 'Rockets NW'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!

How are the flying fields there?? ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Don Harris
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 AM
> To: Rockets NW
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
>
>
> Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95%
humidity,
> with a 15 mph breeze.? Yes,? Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back
to
> that good ole Oregon chill.....
>
>
>
> Don
>
> > From: greg at blastzone.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> > Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away.
> > So far so good. Itchin to fly!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > >
> > > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      
-------------- next part --------------
Here is the forecast for the weekend.? Looks pretty good.
Greg Wilson
?
?
?
http://weather.yahoo.com/
Weather
>
http://weather.yahoo.com/North-America/NORTHAM/regional.html
North America
>
http://weather.yahoo.com/United-States/USXX/regional.html
United States
>
http://weather.yahoo.com/Washington-United-States/USWA/regional.html
Washington
>
Mansfield
F? | http://weather.yahoo.com/Mansfield-Washington-United-States/USWA0253/forecast.html?unit=c
C?
Current conditions as of 8:53 am PDT
Fair
Feels Like:
48?
Barometer:
29.88 in and rising
Humidity:
32%
Visibility:
10 mi
Dewpoint:
19?
Wind:
NNW 20 mph
Sunrise:
5:55 am
Sunset:
8:01 pm
48?
High: 50? Low: 31?
? http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/USWA0253.html#text Detailed Forecast
? http://weather.yahoo.com/Mansfield-Washington-United-States/USWA0253/statistics.html Records & Averages
? http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=37752/*http://widgets.yahoo.com/widgets/yahoo-weather Get Yahoo! Weather on your desktop
Today
Tomorrow
Sat
Sun
Mon
6-10 Day
Partly Cloudy
Mostly Sunny
Partly Cloudy/Wind
Partly Cloudy
Partly Cloudy
http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15ldusne8/M=385205.13241003.13378348.1666089/D=wt/S=20078731:WTHE/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1240512398/L=4xEpNUWTUG.h3e51SbADOgTpqJziJ0nwm24ADN1L/B=nyI0DNj8el0-/J=1240505198885792/K=zWA4mDEteRIZuYv5JIr4Kg/A=3802593/R=0/SIG=15eg2pflv/*http://yahoo.weather.com/weather/extended/USWA0253?par=yahoo&site=www.yahoo.com&promo=extendedforecast&cm_ven=Yahoo&cm_cat=www.yahoo.com&cm_pla=forecastpage&cm_ite=CityPage
Extended Forecast
High: 50?
Low: 31?
High: 58?
Low: 35?
High: 60?
Low: 35?
High: 62?
Low: 39?
High: 61?
Low: 39?
--- On
Thu, 4/23/09, Brad Wright
<bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
wrote:
From: Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
To: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>, "'Don Harris'" <rocketsrfun at msn.com>, "'Rockets NW'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 9:44 AM
There's plenty of places to fly in the Bahamas you just need to make your AV bay's water tight like they do in the UK.
b
________________________________________
From: http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[ http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
] on behalf of Greg Deputy [ http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=greg at blastzone.com greg at blastzone.com
]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:17 AM
To: 'Don Harris'; 'Rockets NW'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
How are the flying fields there?? ;)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto: http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
]
On
> Behalf Of Don Harris
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 AM
> To: Rockets NW
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
>
>
> Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95%
humidity,
> with a 15 mph breeze.? Yes,? Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back
to
> that good ole Oregon chill.....
>
>
>
> Don
>
> > From: http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=greg at blastzone.com greg at blastzone.com
> > To: http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> > Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away.
> > So far so good. Itchin to fly!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > > [mailto: http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > >
> > > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
http://us.mc330.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
?

From absworld at cet.com  Thu Apr 23 09:53:17 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:53:17 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
In-Reply-To: <e1e3ba0b0904230900j23265926m76655e2dbb46a328@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1e3ba0b0904230900j23265926m76655e2dbb46a328@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00f501c9c433$ffe28020$ffa78060$@com>

Oh Boy, a legitimate reason to sleep with my motors ;-)

Overall, I think the forecast looks pretty darn good.

bobert

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
To: NW Rocketry mailing list
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!

Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
-------------- next part --------------

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From greg at blastzone.com  Thu Apr 23 10:32:42 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:32:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?
Message-ID: <1a1b01c9c439$824771b0$86d65510$@com>

Hey, will there be anyone who could snap a few pictures of my flights on
Saturday?  My camera has decided to quit working.

Also, anyone know of any good repair shops for cameras in the
Sumner/Puyallup/Tacoma area that works on digital SLR's, or is it advisable
to send them only to the factory for repair?


From aaronfogg at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 10:40:56 2009
From: aaronfogg at gmail.com (Aaron Fogg)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:40:56 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?
In-Reply-To: <1a1b01c9c439$824771b0$86d65510$@com>
References: <1a1b01c9c439$824771b0$86d65510$@com>
Message-ID: <e1e3ba0b0904231040s6cd2fd03h6c76c825da6101e1@mail.gmail.com>

I will have my 40D out there this weekend. Just let me know when you are up.
I will get a great pic of your rocket just sitting there or a cool smoke
trail with no rocket in site, let me know which one you prefer. ;)

Aaron Fogg

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:

> Hey, will there be anyone who could snap a few pictures of my flights on
> Saturday?  My camera has decided to quit working.
>
> Also, anyone know of any good repair shops for cameras in the
> Sumner/Puyallup/Tacoma area that works on digital SLR's, or is it advisable
> to send them only to the factory for repair?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
Aaron Fogg
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Greg Deputy
< mailto:greg at blastzone.com greg at blastzone.com
>
wrote:
Hey, will there be anyone who could snap a few pictures of my flights on
Saturday? ?My camera has decided to quit working.
Also, anyone know of any good repair shops for cameras in the
Sumner/Puyallup/Tacoma area that works on digital SLR's, or is it advisable
to send them only to the factory for repair?
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Thu Apr 23 10:51:05 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:51:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?
In-Reply-To: <e1e3ba0b0904231040s6cd2fd03h6c76c825da6101e1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1a1b01c9c439$824771b0$86d65510$@com>
	<e1e3ba0b0904231040s6cd2fd03h6c76c825da6101e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F97C7FC0B84477B9DDA84D4B0AC189A@Mobile2>

40D!!!!!!!!!!! Man those are big, shouldn't have them out at a family launch
though..... 


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:41 AM
To: Greg Deputy
Cc: Rockets NW
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?

I will have my 40D out there this weekend. Just let me know when you are up.
I will get a great pic of your rocket just sitting there or a cool smoke
trail with no rocket in site, let me know which one you prefer. ;)

Aaron Fogg

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:

> Hey, will there be anyone who could snap a few pictures of my flights 
> on Saturday?  My camera has decided to quit working.
>
> Also, anyone know of any good repair shops for cameras in the 
> Sumner/Puyallup/Tacoma area that works on digital SLR's, or is it 
> advisable to send them only to the factory for repair?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


From terry at mooreread.com  Thu Apr 23 11:28:46 2009
From: terry at mooreread.com (Terry Moore-Read)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:28:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?
In-Reply-To: <e1e3ba0b0904231040s6cd2fd03h6c76c825da6101e1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1a1b01c9c439$824771b0$86d65510$@com>
	<e1e3ba0b0904231040s6cd2fd03h6c76c825da6101e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A27D6D42-343B-40B2-A4FE-814015555897@mooreread.com>

I usually get 5 or 6 shots of the rocket just sitting there and 1 of  
the cool smoke trail with no rocket.

On Apr 23, 2009, at 10:40 AM, Aaron Fogg wrote:

> I will have my 40D out there this weekend. Just let me know when you  
> are up.
> I will get a great pic of your rocket just sitting there or a cool  
> smoke
> trail with no rocket in site, let me know which one you prefer. ;)
>
> Aaron Fogg
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> Hey, will there be anyone who could snap a few pictures of my  
>> flights on
>> Saturday?  My camera has decided to quit working.
>>
>> Also, anyone know of any good repair shops for cameras in the
>> Sumner/Puyallup/Tacoma area that works on digital SLR's, or is it  
>> advisable
>> to send them only to the factory for repair?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets


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From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Thu Apr 23 11:48:20 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:48:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!  Weekend Forecast
In-Reply-To: <961008.14192.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <961008.14192.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA0A@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

 
I really hope Weather.com is wrong on this one:

Mansfield, WA

Saturday 60 degrees, 0% chance of rain, 20 mph winds
Sunday 62 degrees, 10% chance of rain, 9 mph winds

Both days...good, good, d'oh!

Signed,

Hoping not to be a Killjoy

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Fred Bare
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:50 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR! Weekend Forecast

Here is the forecast for the weekend.? Looks pretty good.
Greg Wilson
?
?
?
Weather >
North America >
United States >
Washington >
Mansfield
F? | C? 

Current conditions as of 8:53 am PDT
Fair

Feels Like: 
48?
Barometer: 
29.88 in and rising
Humidity: 
32%
Visibility: 
10 mi
Dewpoint: 
19?
Wind: 
NNW 20 mph
Sunrise: 
5:55 am
Sunset: 
8:01 pm 

48?
High: 50? Low: 31?

? Detailed Forecast
? Records & Averages
? Get Yahoo! Weather on your desktop 

  #yw-fivedayforecast tr.fiveday-icons div{ width:100%; } 





Today
Tomorrow
Sat
Sun
Mon
6-10 Day


Partly Cloudy

Mostly Sunny

Partly Cloudy/Wind

Partly Cloudy

Partly Cloudy
Extended Forecast

if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object(); window.yzq_d['nyI0DNj8el0-']='&U=13fc71ckl%2fN%3dnyI0DNj8el0-%2fC%3d385205.13241003.13378348.1666089%2fD%3dWTHE%2fB%3d3802593%2fV%3d1';

 

High: 50?
Low: 31?
High: 58?
Low: 35?
High: 60?
Low: 35?
High: 62?
Low: 39?
High: 61?
Low: 39?

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:


From: Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
To: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>, "'Don Harris'" <rocketsrfun at msn.com>, "'Rockets NW'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 9:44 AM


There's plenty of places to fly in the Bahamas you just need to make your AV bay's water tight like they do in the UK.

b

________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Greg Deputy [greg at blastzone.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:17 AM
To: 'Don Harris'; 'Rockets NW'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!

How are the flying fields there?? ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Don Harris
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 AM
> To: Rockets NW
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
>
>
> Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95%
humidity,
> with a 15 mph breeze.? Yes,? Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get 
> back
to
> that good ole Oregon chill.....
>
>
>
> Don
>
> > From: greg at blastzone.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> > Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away.
> > So far so good. Itchin to fly!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com 
> > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > >
> > > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
? 



      

From rocketsrfun at msn.com  Thu Apr 23 12:02:16 2009
From: rocketsrfun at msn.com (Don Harris)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:02:16 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990C8AB1@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <e1e3ba0b0904230900j23265926m76655e2dbb46a328@mail.gmail.com>
	<199601c9c42d$1e2603b0$5a720b10$@com>
	<BAY103-W520B2443008F9229C7009ABD750@phx.gbl>,
	<19ac01c9c42f$0aede680$20c9b380$@com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990C8AB1@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-W1409B3B04819A30BE93F6FBD750@phx.gbl>


Hey Brad, I figure if I just strap an M motor to one of the para sails out here I should be able to have enough time to retrieve before it hits the water (that's if it doesn't pre-deploy before then). I figure the guy working the powerboat can chase it down before it sinks into the 4000' trench a mile off the coast.

 

Don
 
> From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com
> To: greg at blastzone.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:44:47 +0000
> 
> There's plenty of places to fly in the Bahamas you just need to make your AV bay's water tight like they do in the UK.
> 
> b
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Greg Deputy [greg at blastzone.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:17 AM
> To: 'Don Harris'; 'Rockets NW'
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> 
> How are the flying fields there? ;)
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Don Harris
> > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 AM
> > To: Rockets NW
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> >
> > Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95%
> humidity,
> > with a 15 mph breeze. Yes, Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back
> to
> > that good ole Oregon chill.....
> >
> >
> >
> > Don
> >
> > > From: greg at blastzone.com
> > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > >
> > > Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away.
> > > So far so good. Itchin to fly!
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > > >
> > > > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
-------------- next part --------------
Hey Brad, I figure if I just strap an M motor to one of the para sails out?here I?should be able to?have enough time to retrieve before it hits the water (that's if it doesn't pre-deploy before then).?I figure the guy working the powerboat can chase it down before it sinks into the 4000' trench?a mile off the coast.
?
Don
?
> From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com
> To: greg at blastzone.com; rocketsrfun at msn.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:44:47 +0000
>
> There's plenty of places to fly in the Bahamas you just need to make your AV bay's water tight like they do in the UK.
>
> b
>
> ________________________________________
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Greg Deputy [greg at blastzone.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:17 AM
> To: 'Don Harris'; 'Rockets NW'
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
>
> How are the flying fields there? ;)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Don Harris
> > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 AM
> > To: Rockets NW
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> >
> > Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95%
> humidity,
> > with a 15 mph breeze. Yes, Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back
> to
> > that good ole Oregon chill.....
> >
> >
> >
> > Don
> >
> > > From: greg at blastzone.com
> > > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > >
> > > Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away.
> > > So far so good. Itchin to fly!
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > > >
> > > > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rockets mailing list
> > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> > >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Thu Apr 23 12:37:00 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (jjarmitage at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:37:00 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
Message-ID: <20090423193903.RIAO13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>

Only having visited the ranch site on a no-launch day, exactly how far back that road is the pad site? In relation to the machine shed and yard art?

jjarmitage at earthlink.net
253 205 7722
Sent from my Palm Tr?o


From carl at mousetrap.com  Thu Apr 23 12:41:31 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:41:31 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
In-Reply-To: <20090423193903.RIAO13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>
References: <20090423193903.RIAO13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0904231241j34d6874dr1d677f2793da5f82@mail.gmail.com>

Go south all the way to 12 Road NE. You can also checkout the site
description at: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell
<http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell> - Carl

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM, <jjarmitage at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Only having visited the ranch site on a no-launch day, exactly how far back
> that road is the pad site? In relation to the machine shed and yard art?
>
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> 253 205 7722
> Sent from my Palm Tr?o
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell
?- Carl
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM,
< mailto:jjarmitage at earthlink.net jjarmitage at earthlink.net
>
wrote:
Only having visited the ranch site on a no-launch day, exactly how far back that road is the pad site? In relation to the machine shed and yard art?
mailto:jjarmitage at earthlink.net jjarmitage at earthlink.net
253 205 7722
Sent from my Palm Tr?o
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Thu Apr 23 12:55:24 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:55:24 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0904231241j34d6874dr1d677f2793da5f82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090423193903.RIAO13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>
	<e068dfbd0904231241j34d6874dr1d677f2793da5f82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <015d01c9c44d$71bfa240$553ee6c0$@net>

The pad site is generally a couple of hundred yards south of the shed and is easily visible from there. - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:42 PM
To: jjarmitage at earthlink.net
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...

Go south all the way to 12 Road NE. You can also checkout the site description at: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell
<http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell> - Carl

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM, <jjarmitage at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Only having visited the ranch site on a no-launch day, exactly how far 
> back that road is the pad site? In relation to the machine shed and yard art?
>
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> 253 205 7722
> Sent from my Palm Tr o
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


From carl at mousetrap.com  Thu Apr 23 13:09:28 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:09:28 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch - range fees
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0904231309x606a1b07t52dea3b4569ed919@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman <kent.newman at comcast.net>wrote:

>  Greetings, all!
>
> Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this
> weekend, April 25-26th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on
> Hwy 172.  Specific directions may be found at the WAC website,
> www.washingtonaerospace.org.
>
> Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at
> this launch.  Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
>
Just to be clear, Washington Aerospace will be charging range fees for
non-members at launches other than FITS this year, including this weekend's
launch. If you are not a WAC member, range fees will be $10/family for the
weekend. This covers port-o-potty costs and general wear and tear on our
GSE. If you plan on renewing your membership or joining the club, you might
as well take care of it before this weekend by visiting our online
membership form at http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/membership_form.php.

Thanks.

 - Carl
-------------- next part --------------
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman
< mailto:kent.newman at comcast.net kent.newman at comcast.net
>
wrote:
Greetings, all!?
Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this weekend, April 25-26
th
, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on Hwy 172.? Specific directions may be found at the WAC website, http://www.washingtonaerospace.org www.washingtonaerospace.org
.
Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at this launch.? Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
Just to be clear, Washington Aerospace will be charging range fees for non-members at launches other than FITS this year, including this weekend's launch. If you are not a WAC member, range fees will be $10/family for the weekend. This covers port-o-potty costs and general wear and tear on our GSE. If you plan on renewing your membership or joining the club, you might as well take care of it before this weekend by visiting our online membership form at? http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/membership_form.php http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/membership_form.php
.
Thanks.
?- Carl

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Thu Apr 23 14:43:54 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:43:54 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!  Weekend Forecast
In-Reply-To: <961008.14192.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <961008.14192.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990C8EC9@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Except for that 20mph wind.  gotta grab a high thrust motor or two as backup.

b

________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Fred Bare [fred_bare at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:49 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!  Weekend Forecast

Here is the forecast for the weekend.  Looks pretty good.
Greg Wilson



Weather >
North America >
United States >
Washington >
Mansfield
F? | C?

Current conditions as of 8:53 am PDT
Fair

Feels Like:
48?
Barometer:
29.88 in and rising
Humidity:
32%
Visibility:
10 mi
Dewpoint:
19?
Wind:
NNW 20 mph
Sunrise:
5:55 am
Sunset:
8:01 pm

48?
High: 50? Low: 31?

? Detailed Forecast
? Records & Averages
? Get Yahoo! Weather on your desktop

  #yw-fivedayforecast tr.fiveday-icons div{ width:100%; }





Today
Tomorrow
Sat
Sun
Mon
6-10 Day


Partly Cloudy

Mostly Sunny

Partly Cloudy/Wind

Partly Cloudy

Partly Cloudy
Extended Forecast

if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object();
window.yzq_d['nyI0DNj8el0-']='&U=13fc71ckl%2fN%3dnyI0DNj8el0-%2fC%3d385205.13241003.13378348.1666089%2fD%3dWTHE%2fB%3d3802593%2fV%3d1';



High: 50?
Low: 31?
High: 58?
Low: 35?
High: 60?
Low: 35?
High: 62?
Low: 39?
High: 61?
Low: 39?

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:


From: Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
To: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>, "'Don Harris'" <rocketsrfun at msn.com>, "'Rockets NW'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 9:44 AM


There's plenty of places to fly in the Bahamas you just need to make your AV bay's water tight like they do in the UK.

b

________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Greg Deputy [greg at blastzone.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:17 AM
To: 'Don Harris'; 'Rockets NW'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!

How are the flying fields there?  ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Don Harris
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 AM
> To: Rockets NW
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
>
>
> Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95%
humidity,
> with a 15 mph breeze.  Yes,  Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back
to
> that good ole Oregon chill.....
>
>
>
> Don
>
> > From: greg at blastzone.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> > Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away.
> > So far so good. Itchin to fly!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > >
> > > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From bradwr at wrightholdings.com  Thu Apr 23 14:44:39 2009
From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:44:39 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?
In-Reply-To: <e1e3ba0b0904231040s6cd2fd03h6c76c825da6101e1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1a1b01c9c439$824771b0$86d65510$@com>,
	<e1e3ba0b0904231040s6cd2fd03h6c76c825da6101e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990C8EDD@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>

How about like last June - one with parts of the rocket on the pad and parts flying high above it ;)

________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Aaron Fogg [aaronfogg at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:40 AM
To: Greg Deputy
Cc: Rockets NW
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?

I will have my 40D out there this weekend. Just let me know when you are up.
I will get a great pic of your rocket just sitting there or a cool smoke
trail with no rocket in site, let me know which one you prefer. ;)

Aaron Fogg

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:

> Hey, will there be anyone who could snap a few pictures of my flights on
> Saturday?  My camera has decided to quit working.
>
> Also, anyone know of any good repair shops for cameras in the
> Sumner/Puyallup/Tacoma area that works on digital SLR's, or is it advisable
> to send them only to the factory for repair?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From dennys at carnitech.net  Thu Apr 23 14:49:38 2009
From: dennys at carnitech.net (Denny Smith)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:49:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!  Weekend Forecast
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990C8EC9@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <961008.14192.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990C8EC9@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE2005108889D1@ctusone.Carnitechus.local>

The NOAA weather site only calls for west wind on Saturday, 6mph.

D


-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 2:44 PM
To: Fred Bare; rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR! Weekend Forecast

Except for that 20mph wind.  gotta grab a high thrust motor or two as backup.

b

________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Fred Bare [fred_bare at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:49 AM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!  Weekend Forecast

Here is the forecast for the weekend.  Looks pretty good.
Greg Wilson



Weather >
North America >
United States >
Washington >
Mansfield
F? | C?

Current conditions as of 8:53 am PDT
Fair

Feels Like:
48?
Barometer:
29.88 in and rising
Humidity:
32%
Visibility:
10 mi
Dewpoint:
19?
Wind:
NNW 20 mph
Sunrise:
5:55 am
Sunset:
8:01 pm

48?
High: 50? Low: 31?

? Detailed Forecast
? Records & Averages
? Get Yahoo! Weather on your desktop

  #yw-fivedayforecast tr.fiveday-icons div{ width:100%; }





Today
Tomorrow
Sat
Sun
Mon
6-10 Day


Partly Cloudy

Mostly Sunny

Partly Cloudy/Wind

Partly Cloudy

Partly Cloudy
Extended Forecast

if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object();
window.yzq_d['nyI0DNj8el0-']='&U=13fc71ckl%2fN%3dnyI0DNj8el0-%2fC%3d385205.13241003.13378348.1666089%2fD%3dWTHE%2fB%3d3802593%2fV%3d1';



High: 50?
Low: 31?
High: 58?
Low: 35?
High: 60?
Low: 35?
High: 62?
Low: 39?
High: 61?
Low: 39?

--- On Thu, 4/23/09, Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com> wrote:


From: Brad Wright <bradwr at wrightholdings.com>
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
To: "Greg Deputy" <greg at blastzone.com>, "'Don Harris'" <rocketsrfun at msn.com>, "'Rockets NW'" <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 9:44 AM


There's plenty of places to fly in the Bahamas you just need to make your AV bay's water tight like they do in the UK.

b

________________________________________
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on behalf of Greg Deputy [greg at blastzone.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:17 AM
To: 'Don Harris'; 'Rockets NW'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!

How are the flying fields there?  ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Don Harris
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 AM
> To: Rockets NW
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
>
>
> Hey folks, sad to hear that it's so cold. Right now it's 85+, 95%
humidity,
> with a 15 mph breeze.  Yes,  Nassau in the Bahamas. Can't wait to get back
to
> that good ole Oregon chill.....
>
>
>
> Don
>
> > From: greg at blastzone.com
> > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:04:00 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> >
> > Cold smold. Cold is fine. Just keep the wind down and the rain away.
> > So far so good. Itchin to fly!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> > > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Aaron Fogg
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:01 AM
> > > To: NW Rocketry mailing list
> > > Subject: [RocketsNW] BURRRR!
> > >
> > > Looks a bit chilly out at Mansfield today. ;)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  

From carl at mousetrap.com  Thu Apr 23 15:10:49 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:10:49 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
In-Reply-To: <6410967225848331724@unknownmsgid>
References: <AcnCjIwp4zcomcm+QEiNB6c6JFPkXg==>
	<6410967225848331724@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0904231510l774cb2dal198fb08225ceb090@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a different reminder: if you have one or more FRS radios, bring
them. These are invaluable for coordinating recovery and monitor launch
events.
It's true that DJ Jazzy Kent will be rolling out our new PA system this
weekend, but if Denny's generator isn't up to the task of powering its
massive speakers (I hear they are strong enough to blow your clothes off),
we'll be using the FRS radios for most of our communication. Frequency
details will be given out at the fliers' meetings. If you arrive after the
day's meeting, please ask somebody what frequencies are being used for what.

Thanks.

 - Carl

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman <kent.newman at comcast.net>wrote:

>  Greetings, all!
>
>
>
> Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this
> weekend, April 25-26th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on
> Hwy 172.  Specific directions may be found at the WAC website,
> www.washingtonaerospace.org.
>
>
>
> Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at
> this launch.  Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
>
>
>
> For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your
> paperwork.   NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be
> available.
>
>
>
> Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this
> flight.   Have checkbooks in hand!
>
>
>
> Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather
> conditions at this very moment.   Rain possibilities are nil to minimal,
> skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.
>
>
>
> Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take
> advantage of the amenities offered there.   It?s amazing how good a burger,
> fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the
> sun.   Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for
> your cooler at the same time.
>
>
>
> Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors
>
> _______________________________________________
> members mailing list
> members at washingtonaerospace.org
>
> http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
It's true that DJ Jazzy Kent will be rolling out our new PA system this weekend, but if Denny's generator isn't up to the task of powering its massive speakers (I hear they are strong enough to blow your clothes off), we'll be using the FRS radios for most of our communication. Frequency details will be given out at the fliers' meetings. If you arrive after the day's meeting, please ask somebody what frequencies are being used for what.
Thanks.
?- Carl
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman
< mailto:kent.newman at comcast.net kent.newman at comcast.net
>
wrote:
Greetings, all!
?
Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this weekend, April 25-26
th
, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on Hwy 172.? Specific directions may be found at the WAC website, http://www.washingtonaerospace.org www.washingtonaerospace.org
.
?
Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at this launch.? Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
?
For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your paperwork.?? NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be available.?
?
Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.?? Have checkbooks in hand!
?
Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather conditions at this very moment.?? Rain possibilities are nil to minimal, skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.
?
Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take advantage of the amenities offered there.?? It?s amazing how good a burger, fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the sun.?? Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for your cooler at the same time.
?
Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors
_______________________________________________
members mailing list
mailto:members at washingtonaerospace.org members at washingtonaerospace.org
http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Thu Apr 23 15:16:06 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:16:06 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
In-Reply-To: <e068dfbd0904231510l774cb2dal198fb08225ceb090@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AcnCjIwp4zcomcm+QEiNB6c6JFPkXg==><6410967225848331724@unknownmsgid>
	<e068dfbd0904231510l774cb2dal198fb08225ceb090@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6416325271324462950367792AC768EA@Mobile2>

Like yelling PAD FIRE! into them?
 
Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 
 
 

  _____  

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org
[mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 3:11 PM
To: WAC Members; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch


Here is a different reminder: if you have one or more FRS radios, bring
them. These are invaluable for coordinating recovery and monitor launch
events. 

It's true that DJ Jazzy Kent will be rolling out our new PA system this
weekend, but if Denny's generator isn't up to the task of powering its
massive speakers (I hear they are strong enough to blow your clothes off),
we'll be using the FRS radios for most of our communication. Frequency
details will be given out at the fliers' meetings. If you arrive after the
day's meeting, please ask somebody what frequencies are being used for what.

Thanks.

 - Carl


On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman <kent.newman at comcast.net>
wrote:


Greetings, all!

 

Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this
weekend, April 25-26th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on
Hwy 172.  Specific directions may be found at the WAC website,
www.washingtonaerospace.org.

 

Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at
this launch.  Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.

 

For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your
paperwork.   NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be
available.  

 

Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.
Have checkbooks in hand!

 

Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather
conditions at this very moment.   Rain possibilities are nil to minimal,
skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.

 

Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take
advantage of the amenities offered there.   It's amazing how good a burger,
fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the
sun.   Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for
your cooler at the same time.

 

Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors


_______________________________________________
members mailing list
members at washingtonaerospace.org
http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.
org




-------------- next part --------------
Like yelling PAD FIRE! into them?
?
Scott T. Bowers
http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com
?
?
From:
members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org]
On Behalf Of
Carl Hamilton
Sent:
Thursday, April 23, 2009 3:11 PM
To:
WAC Members; Rockets NW list
Subject:
Re: [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
Here is a different reminder: if you have one or more FRS radios, bring them. These are invaluable for coordinating recovery and monitor launch events.
It's true that DJ Jazzy Kent will be rolling out our new PA system this weekend, but if Denny's generator isn't up to the task of powering its massive speakers (I hear they are strong enough to blow your clothes off), we'll be using the FRS radios for most of our communication. Frequency details will be given out at the fliers' meetings. If you arrive after the day's meeting, please ask somebody what frequencies are being used for what.
Thanks.
?- Carl
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman
< mailto:kent.newman at comcast.net kent.newman at comcast.net
>
wrote:
Greetings, all!
?
Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this weekend, April 25-26
th
, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on Hwy 172.? Specific directions may be found at the WAC website, http://www.washingtonaerospace.org www.washingtonaerospace.org
.
?
Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at this launch.? Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
?
For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your paperwork.?? NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be available.?
?
Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.?? Have checkbooks in hand!
?
Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather conditions at this very moment.?? Rain possibilities are nil to minimal, skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.
?
Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take advantage of the amenities offered there. It???s amazing how good a burger, fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the sun. Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for your cooler at the same time.
?
Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors
_______________________________________________
members mailing list
mailto:members at washingtonaerospace.org members at washingtonaerospace.org
http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org

From greg at blastzone.com  Thu Apr 23 16:29:38 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:29:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?
In-Reply-To: <3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990C8EDD@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <1a1b01c9c439$824771b0$86d65510$@com>,
	<e1e3ba0b0904231040s6cd2fd03h6c76c825da6101e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A117F0D50887C4EAA3B35717ADE20990C8EDD@BL2PRD0102MB015.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <1b9c01c9c46b$5f42ae00$1dc80a00$@com>

My favorite!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Wright [mailto:bradwr at wrightholdings.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 2:45 PM
> To: Aaron Fogg; Greg Deputy
> Cc: Rockets NW
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?
> 
> How about like last June - one with parts of the rocket on the pad and
parts
> flying high above it ;)
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] on
behalf
> of Aaron Fogg [aaronfogg at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:40 AM
> To: Greg Deputy
> Cc: Rockets NW
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Camera coverage this weekend at Mansfield?
> 
> I will have my 40D out there this weekend. Just let me know when you are
up.
> I will get a great pic of your rocket just sitting there or a cool smoke
> trail with no rocket in site, let me know which one you prefer. ;)
> 
> Aaron Fogg
> 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Greg Deputy <greg at blastzone.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hey, will there be anyone who could snap a few pictures of my flights on
> > Saturday?  My camera has decided to quit working.
> >
> > Also, anyone know of any good repair shops for cameras in the
> > Sumner/Puyallup/Tacoma area that works on digital SLR's, or is it
advisable
> > to send them only to the factory for repair?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >


From appusher at q.com  Thu Apr 23 19:26:24 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:26:24 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] paging scott berfield
Message-ID: <BLU145-W2251F44EAB152F0F7C19AADC720@phx.gbl>



please call me 206.335.0196

 

Bill at PSP









 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
-------------- next part --------------
please call me 206.335.0196
?
mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Thu Apr 23 20:53:40 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:53:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
In-Reply-To: <002d01c9c489$150bac60$3f230520$@net>
References: <AcnCjIwp4zcomcm+QEiNB6c6JFPkXg==><6410967225848331724@unknownmsgid>	<e068dfbd0904231510l774cb2dal198fb08225ceb090@mail.gmail.com>
	<6416325271324462950367792AC768EA@Mobile2>
	<002d01c9c489$150bac60$3f230520$@net>
Message-ID: <8B14ED94633F43B1A6B14AB13DBBAFDB@Mobile2>

No no no no no no no! never run! Watch, and if it looks like it's not
moving, then run!
 
Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 
 
 

  _____  

From: Aaron T. Lyons [mailto:aaronlyonsnwski at comcast.net] 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:02 PM
To: 'Scott T Bowers'; 'Carl Hamilton'; 'WAC Members'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch



or.ROCKET COMING IN HOT RUN!!!!

 

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org
[mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 3:16 PM
To: 'Carl Hamilton'; 'WAC Members'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch

 

Like yelling PAD FIRE! into them?

 

Scott T. Bowers

www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 

 

 

 

  _____  

From: members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org
[mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org] On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 3:11 PM
To: WAC Members; Rockets NW list
Subject: Re: [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch

Here is a different reminder: if you have one or more FRS radios, bring
them. These are invaluable for coordinating recovery and monitor launch
events. 

 

It's true that DJ Jazzy Kent will be rolling out our new PA system this
weekend, but if Denny's generator isn't up to the task of powering its
massive speakers (I hear they are strong enough to blow your clothes off),
we'll be using the FRS radios for most of our communication. Frequency
details will be given out at the fliers' meetings. If you arrive after the
day's meeting, please ask somebody what frequencies are being used for what.

 

Thanks.

 

 - Carl

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman <kent.newman at comcast.net>
wrote:

Greetings, all!

 

Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this
weekend, April 25-26th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on
Hwy 172.  Specific directions may be found at the WAC website,
www.washingtonaerospace.org.

 

Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at
this launch.  Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.

 

For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your
paperwork.   NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be
available.  

 

Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.
Have checkbooks in hand!

 

Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather
conditions at this very moment.   Rain possibilities are nil to minimal,
skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.

 

Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take
advantage of the amenities offered there.   It's amazing how good a burger,
fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the
sun.   Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for
your cooler at the same time.

 

Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors


_______________________________________________
members mailing list
members at washingtonaerospace.org
http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.
org

 

-------------- next part --------------
No no no no no no no! never run! Watch, and if it looks like it's not moving, then run!
?
Scott T. Bowers
http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com
?
?
From:
Aaron T. Lyons [mailto:aaronlyonsnwski at comcast.net]
Sent:
Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:02 PM
To:
'Scott T Bowers'; 'Carl Hamilton'; 'WAC Members'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject:
RE: [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
or???ROCKET COMING IN HOT RUN!!!!
?
From:
members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org]
On Behalf Of
Scott T Bowers
Sent:
Thursday, April 23, 2009 3:16 PM
To:
'Carl Hamilton'; 'WAC Members'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject:
Re: [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
?
Like yelling PAD FIRE! into them?
?
Scott T. Bowers
http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com
?
?
?
From:
members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org [mailto:members-bounces at washingtonaerospace.org]
On Behalf Of
Carl Hamilton
Sent:
Thursday, April 23, 2009 3:11 PM
To:
WAC Members; Rockets NW list
Subject:
Re: [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
Here is a different reminder: if you have one or more FRS radios, bring them. These are invaluable for coordinating recovery and monitor launch events.
?
It's true that DJ Jazzy Kent will be rolling out our new PA system this weekend, but if Denny's generator isn't up to the task of powering its massive speakers (I hear they are strong enough to blow your clothes off), we'll be using the FRS radios for most of our communication. Frequency details will be given out at the fliers' meetings. If you arrive after the day's meeting, please ask somebody what frequencies are being used for what.
?
Thanks.
?
?- Carl
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman < mailto:kent.newman at comcast.net kent.newman at comcast.net
> wrote:
Greetings, all!
?
Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this weekend, April 25-26
th
, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on Hwy 172.? Specific directions may be found at the WAC website, http://www.washingtonaerospace.org www.washingtonaerospace.org
.
?
Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at this launch.? Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
?
For all of you attempting certification flights, please bring your paperwork.?? NAR witnesses and the TRAPS Prefect, Brad Wright, will be available.?
?
Puget Sound Propulsion will be your friendly motor provider on this flight.?? Have checkbooks in hand!
?
Mark Lyons, Launch Director - Extraordinaire, is improving weather conditions at this very moment.?? Rain possibilities are nil to minimal, skies are clearing and wind is diminishing.
?
Plan on running into Mansfield at some point over the weekend to take advantage of the amenities offered there. It???s amazing how good a burger, fries and milkshake can taste after spending all day on the plateau in the sun. Restock grocery items, pick up your favorite beverage and the ice for your cooler at the same time.
?
Kent Newman for the WAC Board of Directors
_______________________________________________
members mailing list
mailto:members at washingtonaerospace.org members at washingtonaerospace.org
http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org http://washingtonaerospace.org/mailman/listinfo/members_washingtonaerospace.org
?

From daron at daronjohnson.com  Thu Apr 23 21:10:42 2009
From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:10:42 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Set and ready for the weekend
Message-ID: <000001c9c492$aa0ba910$fe22fb30$@com>

Aaron and I arrived around 5'ish. Pretty heavy winds but now nothing. We got
camp setup and now we are just setting down to tip a few back.

The locals say the wind should calm down and be nice for the weekend.

 

See ya this weekend.

 

-Daron

-------------- next part --------------
Aaron and I arrived around 5???ish. Pretty heavy winds but now nothing. We got camp setup and now we are just setting down to tip a few back.
The locals say the wind should calm down and be nice for the weekend.
?
See ya this weekend.
?
-Daron

From daron at daronjohnson.com  Thu Apr 23 21:16:18 2009
From: daron at daronjohnson.com (Daron Johnson)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:16:18 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [personal]  Set and ready for the weekend
In-Reply-To: <000001c9c492$aa0ba910$fe22fb30$@com>
References: <000001c9c492$aa0ba910$fe22fb30$@com>
Message-ID: <000b01c9c493$71f9c240$55ed46c0$@com>

O ya. An its 29 right now.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Daron Johnson
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: [personal] [RocketsNW] Set and ready for the weekend

Aaron and I arrived around 5'ish. Pretty heavy winds but now nothing. We got
camp setup and now we are just setting down to tip a few back.

The locals say the wind should calm down and be nice for the weekend.

 

See ya this weekend.

 

-Daron



From jjarmitage at earthlink.net  Thu Apr 23 22:30:33 2009
From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net (John Armitage)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:30:33 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
In-Reply-To: <015d01c9c44d$71bfa240$553ee6c0$@net>
References: <20090423193903.RIAO13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>
	<e068dfbd0904231241j34d6874dr1d677f2793da5f82@mail.gmail.com>
	<015d01c9c44d$71bfa240$553ee6c0$@net>
Message-ID: <13101CF7AE814B8A9EFB20A1A8568136@DellNotebook>

Thank ya.
Hope we can find it in the dark... We'll just look for the bonfire and
Bill's drive in movie

john

-----Original Message-----
From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:55 PM
To: 'Carl Hamilton'; jjarmitage at earthlink.net
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...

The pad site is generally a couple of hundred yards south of the shed and is
easily visible from there. - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:42 PM
To: jjarmitage at earthlink.net
Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...

Go south all the way to 12 Road NE. You can also checkout the site
description at: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell
<http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell> - Carl

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM, <jjarmitage at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Only having visited the ranch site on a no-launch day, exactly how far 
> back that road is the pad site? In relation to the machine shed and yard
art?
>
> jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> 253 205 7722
> Sent from my Palm Tr o
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


From appusher at q.com  Fri Apr 24 00:29:30 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:29:30 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
In-Reply-To: <13101CF7AE814B8A9EFB20A1A8568136@DellNotebook>
References: <20090423193903.RIAO13111.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@COM>
	<e068dfbd0904231241j34d6874dr1d677f2793da5f82@mail.gmail.com>
	<015d01c9c44d$71bfa240$553ee6c0$@net> 
	<13101CF7AE814B8A9EFB20A1A8568136@DellNotebook>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W33596666DE386D9DCAE0A8DC720@phx.gbl>


Let's hope someone comes up with a video projector..........









 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
 
> From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> To: MartyWeiser at comcast.net; carl at mousetrap.com
> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:30:33 -0700
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
> 
> Thank ya.
> Hope we can find it in the dark... We'll just look for the bonfire and
> Bill's drive in movie
> 
> john
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:55 PM
> To: 'Carl Hamilton'; jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
> 
> The pad site is generally a couple of hundred yards south of the shed and is
> easily visible from there. - Marty
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:42 PM
> To: jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
> 
> Go south all the way to 12 Road NE. You can also checkout the site
> description at: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell
> <http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell> - Carl
> 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM, <jjarmitage at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> > Only having visited the ranch site on a no-launch day, exactly how far 
> > back that road is the pad site? In relation to the machine shed and yard
> art?
> >
> > jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> > 253 205 7722
> > Sent from my Palm Tr o
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 
-------------- next part --------------
Let's hope someone comes up with a video projector..........
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> From: jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> To: MartyWeiser at comcast.net; carl at mousetrap.com
> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:30:33 -0700
> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
>
> Thank ya.
> Hope we can find it in the dark... We'll just look for the bonfire and
> Bill's drive in movie
>
> john
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marty2 [mailto:MartyWeiser at comcast.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:55 PM
> To: 'Carl Hamilton'; jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
>
> The pad site is generally a couple of hundred yards south of the shed and is
> easily visible from there. - Marty
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Carl Hamilton
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:42 PM
> To: jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Site specifics...
>
> Go south all the way to 12 Road NE. You can also checkout the site
> description at: http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell
> <http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/mansfield.php#snell> - Carl
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM, <jjarmitage at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Only having visited the ranch site on a no-launch day, exactly how far
> > back that road is the pad site? In relation to the machine shed and yard
> art?
> >
> > jjarmitage at earthlink.net
> > 253 205 7722
> > Sent from my Palm Tr o
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Thu Apr 23 19:46:27 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:46:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
In-Reply-To: <730151565.695731240430385795.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail
	.comcast.net>
References: <730151565.695731240430385795.JavaMail.root@sz0014a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <e165030c1561052bf28da6581e7ab291.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

A catalyst gas sounds like a real good approach for in-flight changes.  A
little chlorine trifluoride will speed up the combustion of most anything.
;-)

For slow response prelaunch "configuring" of the burn profile I think I'd
embed fine combustible wires(Mg-Al alloy)in the propellant and heat those
with electric current.  IIRC Mike F. has done some experimentation with
embedded wires to increase the linear regression rate of solid propellant.
 Same basic dynamics but adjustable by this method of preheating the
propellant itself.  By only preheating certain zones the core shape can be
programmed to change in complex ways as the burn progresses.

Now I'll go read the article.
+McG+


> I remember a number of years ago they had a solid fuel motor that could be
> controlled by injecting a catalyst gas into the combustion chamber.? I
> don't know whatever happened with that technology.
> ?
> ?
> Rick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: brodwcjj at integrity.com
> To: "Marty2" <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:47:51 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
> Yes ?they didn't mention ?ISPs that I could find, ? and I just noticed ?
> the title says "Thruster and Ignition systems"
> ?? (as opposed to "Rocket Motor Beasts!")
> ?? ?Still cool either way.
> Quoting Marty2 <MartyWeiser at comcast.net>:
>> Peter's explanation sounds likely. ?I also imagine that it is not very
>> efficient - the KE of the thrust will be far less than the chemical and
>> electrical energy in.
>>
>> Marty
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
>> On Behalf Of Schurke, Peter
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:10 AM
>> To: brodwcjj at integrity.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
>>
>> My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable,
>> but electrically labile. ?Decomposes under charge, but insensitive to
>> heat.
>>
>> My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin'
>> cool!"
>>
>> Peter Schurke
>> (Chemistry) Teacher and Lead Advisor
>> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
>> Ingraham High School
>> Seattle, WA
>> (And all but Ph.D. in Medicinal Chemistry)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of
>> brodwcjj at integrity.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AM
>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
>>
>> OK ?you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
>> ? ? ? ? ? How do they do it ?
>>
>> http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.p
>> df
>>
>> The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they
>> list, (IE: no exotic elements)
>>
>> Dustin
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> ??
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>



From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Fri Apr 24 00:19:44 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
In-Reply-To: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9FB@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
References: <mailman.3.1240340403.28256.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<20090422123600.1972838yeeftn5og@wm.integrity.com>
	<844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942D9FB@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>
Message-ID: <cf46826eb2b7a43abb909044943415b1.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Oh, ok, I actually read the article and they're talking about teeny tiny
little rockets.  And big electric power supplies. Yeah, it's probably some
kind of electrolysis type reaction that creates a key chemical to catalyze
the reaction.  The "electrically ignited" bit strongly suggests something
along the lines of conductive pyrogen.  And the reference to manufacturing
methods similar to semiconductors suggests an element of nanotechnology.

Way back in my early rocket days I mused about how nice a zinc-sulfur
grain you could make if only you could magically deposit a three
dimensional grid of microscopic zinc wire in a solid sulfur matrix.  Only
later did I find out about the trick of stuffing aluminum window screen in
the motor tube along with the micrograin powder.

Sounds like these guys are pursuing creating the dream propellant by
literally assembling it bit by bit at a nanotech scale.  Not a technology
we need be concerned about ever being cost effective in hobby rocketry or
practical for home workshops.  File it away with the claims about the
wondrous propellant uses of nanoparticle aluminum at $1000 an ounce.
+McG+


> My first guess was a protein-based compound that is thermally stable,
> but electrically labile.  Decomposes under charge, but insensitive to
> heat.
>
> My second guess is "I don't really have a clue, but that's frakkin'
> cool!"
>
> Peter Schurke
> (Chemistry) Teacher and Lead Advisor
> Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
> Ingraham High School
> Seattle, WA
> (And all but Ph.D. in Medicinal Chemistry)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of
> brodwcjj at integrity.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:36 AM
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Throttle control your solid propellant
>
> OK  you chemists and electrical wizards out there:
>           How do they do it ?
>
> http://www.virtualacquisitionshowcase.com/docs/2009/DigitalSolid-Brief.p
> df
>
> The only clue I can find to the chemistry is the burn products they
> list, (IE: no exotic elements)
>
> Dustin
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From sb at berfield.com  Fri Apr 24 10:17:35 2009
From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:17:35 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield this weekend
Message-ID: <W9336117248238701240593455@webmail27>

Hey all.

I ended up loading up the car assuming a certain set of reloads for Mansfield and ended up having to switch to others. As a result, I am short a 54mm forward closure (non-extended). Anyone want to make me a loaner once we all get there?

-------------- next part --------------
Hey all.
?
I ended up loading up the car assuming a certain set of reloads for Mansfield and ended up having to switch to others. As a result, I am short a 54mm forward closure (non-extended). Anyone want to make me a loaner once we all get there?

From carl at mousetrap.com  Fri Apr 24 11:28:25 2009
From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:28:25 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] WAC Spring Tune-up Launch
In-Reply-To: <6410967225848331724@unknownmsgid>
References: <6410967225848331724@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <e068dfbd0904241128w6f419527n3fe818a4e35d080a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman <kent.newman at comcast.net>wrote:

>  Greetings, all!
>
>  Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this
> weekend, April 25-26th, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on
> Hwy 172.  Specific directions may be found at the WAC website,
> www.washingtonaerospace.org.
>
>  Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked
> at this launch.  Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
>
Everybody that *attends* this launch will need to have a current WAC
liability waiver on file. In this case, "current" means that it was filled
out this year. As of now, I only have two on file. Please, make my life
easier by creating a custom waiver at
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php, printing it, signing it,
and bringing it to this weekend's launch.

Thanks.

 - Carl
-------------- next part --------------
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Kent Newman
< mailto:kent.newman at comcast.net kent.newman at comcast.net
>
wrote:
Greetings, all!
?Just a reminder of the first launch event of the season coming up this weekend, April 25-26
th
, at the Snell Ranch, 10 miles east of Mansfield on Hwy 172.? Specific directions may be found at the WAC website, http://www.washingtonaerospace.org www.washingtonaerospace.org
.
?Proof of NAR or TRA membership as well as WAC membership will be checked at this launch.? Please be sure to bring your NAR or TRA cards with you.
Everybody that *attends* this launch will need to have a current WAC liability waiver on file. In this case, "current" means that it was filled out this year. As of now, I only have two on file. Please, make my life easier by creating a custom waiver at? http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/waiver_form.php
, printing it, signing it, and bringing it to this weekend's launch.
Thanks.
?- Carl

From dmrandall at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 11:45:12 2009
From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:45:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield this weekend
In-Reply-To: <W9336117248238701240593455@webmail27>
References: <W9336117248238701240593455@webmail27>
Message-ID: <6bc920e40904241145q5f421758h744a33d1a162ff48@mail.gmail.com>

I have one you can borrow.  We'll probably be there around 10-11am
Saturday.  Or you can pick up at my place on your way out of town.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com> wrote:
> Hey all.
>
> I ended up loading up the car assuming a certain set of reloads for Mansfield and ended up having to switch to others. As a result, I am short a 54mm forward closure (non-extended). Anyone want to make me a loaner once we all get there?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



-- 
- Dave

From greg at blastzone.com  Fri Apr 24 11:47:39 2009
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:47:39 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield this weekend
In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40904241145q5f421758h744a33d1a162ff48@mail.gmail.com>
References: <W9336117248238701240593455@webmail27>
	<6bc920e40904241145q5f421758h744a33d1a162ff48@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006101c9c50d$25316290$6f9427b0$@com>

I've got one too, will be there around 10am

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On
> Behalf Of Dave Randall
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 11:45 AM
> To: Scott Berfield
> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Mansfield this weekend
> 
> I have one you can borrow.  We'll probably be there around 10-11am
> Saturday.  Or you can pick up at my place on your way out of town.
> 
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Scott Berfield <sb at berfield.com> wrote:
> > Hey all.
> >
> > I ended up loading up the car assuming a certain set of reloads for
> Mansfield and ended up having to switch to others. As a result, I am short
a
> 54mm forward closure (non-extended). Anyone want to make me a loaner once
we
> all get there?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rockets mailing list
> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> - Dave
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From rcdm at outlawnet.com  Sat Apr 25 10:43:32 2009
From: rcdm at outlawnet.com (Moorehead)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 10:43:32 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] May OROC launch heads up
References: <A7FDB35F-F15F-4C16-9269-5D0A14B4F26F@mooreread.com>
Message-ID: <D7ABF83107F74FEFA307E9DE171A63B8@DANE>

Just a little heads up for those attending the May OROC launch at Brothers. 

This year the Bend Pole Pedal Paddle relay race happens on Saturday May 16. Several thousand people participate and attend this event. In the past, out of town flyers have experienced congestion coming through Bend. Don't know what the motel situation is but you may want to get that nailed down early. 

See you at the launch

Rod M. 
-------------- next part --------------
Just a little heads up for those attending the May OROC launch at Brothers.
?
This year the Bend Pole Pedal Paddle relay race happens on Saturday May 16. Several thousand people participate and attend this event. In the past, out of town flyers have experienced congestion coming through Bend. Don't know what the motel situation is but you may want to get that nailed down early.
?
See you at the launch
?
Rod M.
?

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Sat Apr 25 14:14:27 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 14:14:27 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
Message-ID: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2>

Pretty slick!

 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM

 
Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 
 
 
-------------- next part --------------
Pretty slick!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM
?
Scott T. Bowers
http://www.scottsrockets.com/ www.scottsrockets.com
?
?

From scott at scottsrockets.com  Sat Apr 25 14:36:11 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 14:36:11 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
In-Reply-To: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2>
References: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <D830069E924B4414AB23809DDAB7F4F0@Mobile2>

Another one

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bIanFc_yI


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:14 PM
To: 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video

Pretty slick!

 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM

 
Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 
 
 


From scott at scottsrockets.com  Sat Apr 25 16:30:59 2009
From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:30:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
In-Reply-To: <D830069E924B4414AB23809DDAB7F4F0@Mobile2>
References: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2>
	<D830069E924B4414AB23809DDAB7F4F0@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <8CC6AA5B09884316A9BEBB1140C75D15@Mobile2>

Best one yet.

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj4lj6YSwzg


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:36 PM
To: 'Scott T Bowers'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video

Another one

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bIanFc_yI


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:14 PM
To: 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video

Pretty slick!

 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM

 
Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 
 
 



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 17:11:40 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:11:40 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
References: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2><D830069E924B4414AB23809DDAB7F4F0@Mobile2>
	<8CC6AA5B09884316A9BEBB1140C75D15@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <7BA4FB0AF6DB432B948F0C322277DF91@LaptopKrausert>

Scott,
All videos were good, but the last one was the best. Great sound shock wave 
to hit the camera. 1600 lbs on 8 N's and a P, wow. Seems like all motors 
came up to pressure nearly instant. When the LCO hit one, it looked like the 
motors were going and the rocket was moving.

Not sure if all N's lit. The rocket did have a spin happening during boost. 
And the spin nearly stopped during coast.

Impressive. Thank you for sharing. Anything on YouTube that isn't Susan 
Boyle is refreshing to watch.
Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>
To: "'Scott T Bowers'" <scott at scottsrockets.com>; "'Rockets NW list'" 
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video


> Best one yet.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj4lj6YSwzg
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:36 PM
> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
>
> Another one
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bIanFc_yI
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:14 PM
> To: 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
>
> Pretty slick!
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 


From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Sat Apr 25 17:17:57 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:17:57 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
In-Reply-To: <8CC6AA5B09884316A9BEBB1140C75D15@Mobile2>
References: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2>	<D830069E924B4414AB23809DDAB7F4F0@Mobile2>
	<8CC6AA5B09884316A9BEBB1140C75D15@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <009901c9c604$73fb07d0$5bf11770$@net>

Scott - Thanks for hunting these down.  This one is the best.  I like how
they stuck the landing. - Marty

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 4:31 PM
To: 'Scott T Bowers'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video

Best one yet.

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj4lj6YSwzg


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:36 PM
To: 'Scott T Bowers'; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video

Another one

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bIanFc_yI


Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:14 PM
To: 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video

Pretty slick!

 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM

 
Scott T. Bowers
www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 
 
 


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From winningstad at comcast.net  Sat Apr 25 17:33:38 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:33:38 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
In-Reply-To: <7BA4FB0AF6DB432B948F0C322277DF91@LaptopKrausert>
References: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2><D830069E924B4414AB23809DDAB7F4F0@Mobile2><8CC6AA5B09884316A9BEBB1140C75D15@Mobile2>
	<7BA4FB0AF6DB432B948F0C322277DF91@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <218C0D2246244B7DBEC4B76220286561@downstair>

Why would a failed ignition cause roll?  Wouldn't it cause an arc to be
flown?

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
 
It is bad luck to be superstitious.
-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:12 PM
To: Scott T Bowers; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video

Scott,
All videos were good, but the last one was the best. Great sound shock wave 
to hit the camera. 1600 lbs on 8 N's and a P, wow. Seems like all motors 
came up to pressure nearly instant. When the LCO hit one, it looked like the

motors were going and the rocket was moving.

Not sure if all N's lit. The rocket did have a spin happening during boost. 
And the spin nearly stopped during coast.

Impressive. Thank you for sharing. Anything on YouTube that isn't Susan 
Boyle is refreshing to watch.
Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>
To: "'Scott T Bowers'" <scott at scottsrockets.com>; "'Rockets NW list'" 
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video


> Best one yet.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj4lj6YSwzg
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:36 PM
> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
>
> Another one
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bIanFc_yI
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:14 PM
> To: 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
>
> Pretty slick!
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From winningstad at comcast.net  Sat Apr 25 17:36:35 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:36:35 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
In-Reply-To: <7BA4FB0AF6DB432B948F0C322277DF91@LaptopKrausert>
References: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2><D830069E924B4414AB23809DDAB7F4F0@Mobile2><8CC6AA5B09884316A9BEBB1140C75D15@Mobile2>
	<7BA4FB0AF6DB432B948F0C322277DF91@LaptopKrausert>
Message-ID: <D375220AA218441D8D532D99EA488CA1@downstair>

PS the 1/10th audio sounded authentic with the crackling...when shooting a
rocket launch, take the camera off autofocus and leave on infinity!

Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
 
It is bad luck to be superstitious.

-----Original Message-----
From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Krausert
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:12 PM
To: Scott T Bowers; 'Rockets NW list'
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video

Scott,
All videos were good, but the last one was the best. Great sound shock wave 
to hit the camera. 1600 lbs on 8 N's and a P, wow. Seems like all motors 
came up to pressure nearly instant. When the LCO hit one, it looked like the

motors were going and the rocket was moving.

Not sure if all N's lit. The rocket did have a spin happening during boost. 
And the spin nearly stopped during coast.

Impressive. Thank you for sharing. Anything on YouTube that isn't Susan 
Boyle is refreshing to watch.
Cheers,
Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott T Bowers" <scott at scottsrockets.com>
To: "'Scott T Bowers'" <scott at scottsrockets.com>; "'Rockets NW list'" 
<rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video


> Best one yet.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj4lj6YSwzg
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:36 PM
> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
>
> Another one
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bIanFc_yI
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:14 PM
> To: 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
>
> Pretty slick!
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM
>
>
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
> 

_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
  


From jim at jmw29221.com  Sun Apr 26 09:01:12 2009
From: jim at jmw29221.com (jim at jmw29221.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:01:12 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
In-Reply-To: <8CC6AA5B09884316A9BEBB1140C75D15@Mobile2>
References: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2>
	<D830069E924B4414AB23809DDAB7F4F0@Mobile2>
	<8CC6AA5B09884316A9BEBB1140C75D15@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <17c3ec82c976eadd93f550fc50977275@mx1.blastzone.com>

It even made the news in China...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/26/content_11258964.htm

Regards
Jim


On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:30:59 -0700, "Scott T Bowers"
<scott at scottsrockets.com> wrote:
> Best one yet.
> 
>  
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj4lj6YSwzg
> 
> 
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott T Bowers [mailto:scott at scottsrockets.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:36 PM
> To: 'Scott T Bowers'; 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
> 
> Another one
> 
>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bIanFc_yI
> 
> 
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com
[mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]
> On Behalf Of Scott T Bowers
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:14 PM
> To: 'Rockets NW list'
> Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
> 
> Pretty slick!
> 
>  <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4l2aFkZ_VM
> 
>  
> Scott T. Bowers
> www.scottsrockets.com <http://www.scottsrockets.com/> 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets

From winningstad at comcast.net  Sun Apr 26 10:11:05 2009
From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:11:05 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] 1/10 Saturn V
Message-ID: <A661826736BC42D0A95A6FF2E4476CFE@downstair>

It even made the news in China...

 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/26/content_11258964.htm

 

 

Dennis S Winningstad

503-781-3529

 

It is bad luck to be superstitious.

 

-------------- next part --------------
It even made the news in
China
...
?
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/26/content_11258964.htm http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/26/content_11258964.htm
?
?
Dennis S Winningstad
503-781-3529
?
It is bad luck to be superstitious.
?

From absworld at cet.com  Sun Apr 26 19:03:10 2009
From: absworld at cet.com (Bob & Ann Yanecek)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:03:10 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Mansfield ranch report.
Message-ID: <005e01c9c6dc$50a95830$f1fc0890$@com>

I arrived mid afternoon Friday to good conditions and a steady stream of
arrivals up through midnight or so.

After a chilly night we woke to fairly decent weather which deteriorated
rapidly.

Can you say WInDY?

It frikken howled through noon though most folks had adequate outerwear and
did a lot of visiting.

Carl Hamilton served as 'paperboy'.

By early afternoon conditions improved enough to allow launching.

While still breezy on the surface, winds at altitude proved to be quite
friendly.

 

I got my tower set up and the MOD V version of my 38mm bird loaded with a
J575FJ

Pad weight was 4 lbs 11 oz. and the Fast Jack motor left a black trail as
the rocket boosted to just over 10K'.

Main deployed almost overhead and recovery was just over the first ridge to
the south of camp.

 

Conditions continued improving and rocket activity was steady through the
1900 end of waiver.

Another hour would most probably have been utilized as the conditions
continued to improve through sunset.

 

I loaded up the MOD I version of my 54mm bird with an AMW K530GG.

Pad weight was 7 lbs 5.5 oz.

As seems to be common with the Green Gorilla's I spit and chuffed out twice
before Denny calmly walked up with an igniter and confidently said "this
will work".

Well it did!  Not sure what was in his igniter but the motor came up to
pressure nicely without any of the 'bang' that occurs with thermite.

Thanks Denny!

Boost was good to an apogee of just over 12K'.

Recovery was nominal until the primary main charge fired.

The N/C came off but the chute stuck in the upper end of the airframe.

Sign me up for another case where back-up electronics save the day as the
main popped out just fine when the back-up charge fired.

 

A really nice camp fire capped off the evening.

We burned some awfully nice wood that the Launch Director called 'scrap'.

All I know is I saw folks stealing firewood and stashing it away for some
future project at home.

 

Sunday morning dawned calm and clear with a good frost on anything left
exposed.

Breezy conditions began shortly after the 0800 opening of the waiver but
nothing bad.

 

There was an early barrage of a couple racks then typical Sunday sporadic
activity through noon.

 

I loaded up my 24mm rocket with a SU F32-15 and a Walston.

Boost was good and then the chute stripped at apogee.

For a minute or three I thought the Walston was with the chute and a real
'treasure hunt' was about to begin but thankfully, the Walston stuck with
the rocket and I only lost the chute.

 

Heard about some new P.A. system but never heard from it.

 

Kudos to launch Director Mark Lyons.

Even without his diaper, he managed to always be available, first out to set
up, and still tearing down when I departed.

 

FITS prep can now commence.

 

BoBeRt

 

-------------- next part --------------
I arrived mid afternoon Friday to good conditions and a steady stream of arrivals up through midnight or so.
After a chilly night we woke to fairly decent weather which deteriorated rapidly.
Can you say WInDY?
It frikken howled through noon though most folks had adequate outerwear and did a lot of visiting.
Carl Hamilton served as ???paperboy???.
By early afternoon conditions improved enough to allow launching.
While still breezy on the surface, winds at altitude proved to be quite friendly.
?
I got my tower set up and the MOD V version of my 38mm bird loaded with a J575FJ
Pad weight was 4 lbs 11 oz. and the Fast Jack motor left a black trail as the rocket boosted to just over 10K???.
Main deployed almost overhead and recovery was just over the first ridge to the south of camp.
?
Conditions continued improving and rocket activity was steady through the 1900 end of waiver.
Another hour would most probably have been utilized as the conditions continued to improve through sunset.
?
I loaded up the MOD I version of my 54mm bird with an AMW K530GG.
Pad weight was 7 lbs 5.5 oz.
As seems to be common with the Green Gorilla???s I spit and chuffed out twice before Denny calmly walked up with an igniter and confidently said ???this will work???.
Well it did! Not sure what was in his igniter but the motor came up to pressure nicely without any of the ???bang??? that occurs with thermite.
Thanks Denny!
Boost was good to an apogee of just over 12K???.
Recovery was nominal until the primary main charge fired.
The N/C came off but the chute stuck in the upper end of the airframe.
Sign me up for another case where back-up electronics save the day as the main popped out just fine when the back-up charge fired.
?
A really nice camp fire capped off the evening.
We burned some awfully nice wood that the Launch Director called ???scrap???.
All I know is I saw folks stealing firewood and stashing it away for some future project at home.
?
Sunday morning dawned calm and clear with a good frost on anything left exposed.
Breezy conditions began shortly after the 0800 opening of the waiver but nothing bad.
?
There was an early barrage of a couple racks then typical Sunday sporadic activity through noon.
?
I loaded up my 24mm rocket with a SU F32-15 and a Walston.
Boost was good and then the chute stripped at apogee.
For a minute or three I thought the Walston was with the chute and a real ???treasure hunt??? was about to begin but thankfully, the Walston stuck with the rocket and I only lost the chute.
?
Heard about some new P.A. system but never heard from it.
?
Kudos to launch Director Mark Lyons.
Even without his diaper, he managed to always be available, first out to set up, and still tearing down when I departed.
?
FITS prep can now commence.
?
BoBeRt
?
-------------- next part --------------

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From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 26 20:12:26 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:12:26 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] [WAC-Members] Mansfield ranch report.
In-Reply-To: <005e01c9c6dc$50a95830$f1fc0890$@com>
References: <005e01c9c6dc$50a95830$f1fc0890$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU135-W44E9407E4466311FCA12B9A6710@phx.gbl>


Thanks BoberT
 


From: absworld at cet.com
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:03:10 -0700
Subject: [WAC-Members] Mansfield ranch report.





I arrived mid afternoon Friday to good conditions and a steady stream of arrivals up through midnight or so.
After a chilly night we woke to fairly decent weather which deteriorated rapidly.
Can you say WInDY?
It frikken howled through noon though most folks had adequate outerwear and did a lot of visiting.
Carl Hamilton served as ?paperboy?.
By early afternoon conditions improved enough to allow launching.
While still breezy on the surface, winds at altitude proved to be quite friendly.
 
I got my tower set up and the MOD V version of my 38mm bird loaded with a J575FJ
Pad weight was 4 lbs 11 oz. and the Fast Jack motor left a black trail as the rocket boosted to just over 10K?.
Main deployed almost overhead and recovery was just over the first ridge to the south of camp.
 
Conditions continued improving and rocket activity was steady through the 1900 end of waiver.
Another hour would most probably have been utilized as the conditions continued to improve through sunset.
 
I loaded up the MOD I version of my 54mm bird with an AMW K530GG.
Pad weight was 7 lbs 5.5 oz.
As seems to be common with the Green Gorilla?s I spit and chuffed out twice before Denny calmly walked up with an igniter and confidently said ?this will work?.
Well it did!  Not sure what was in his igniter but the motor came up to pressure nicely without any of the ?bang? that occurs with thermite.
Thanks Denny!
Boost was good to an apogee of just over 12K?.
Recovery was nominal until the primary main charge fired.
The N/C came off but the chute stuck in the upper end of the airframe.
Sign me up for another case where back-up electronics save the day as the main popped out just fine when the back-up charge fired.
 
A really nice camp fire capped off the evening.
We burned some awfully nice wood that the Launch Director called ?scrap?.
All I know is I saw folks stealing firewood and stashing it away for some future project at home.
 
Sunday morning dawned calm and clear with a good frost on anything left exposed.
Breezy conditions began shortly after the 0800 opening of the waiver but nothing bad.
 
There was an early barrage of a couple racks then typical Sunday sporadic activity through noon.
 
I loaded up my 24mm rocket with a SU F32-15 and a Walston.
Boost was good and then the chute stripped at apogee.
For a minute or three I thought the Walston was with the chute and a real  ?treasure hunt? was about to begin but thankfully, the Walston stuck with the rocket and I only lost the chute.
 
Heard about some new P.A. system but never heard from it.
 
Kudos to launch Director Mark Lyons.
Even without his diaper, he managed to always be available, first out to set up, and still tearing down when I departed.
 
FITS prep can now commence.
 
BoBeRt
 
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. 
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009
-------------- next part --------------
Thanks BoberT
?
From: absworld at cet.com
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; members at washingtonaerospace.org
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:03:10 -0700
Subject: [WAC-Members] Mansfield ranch report.
I arrived mid afternoon Friday to good conditions and a steady stream of arrivals up through midnight or so.
After a chilly night we woke to fairly decent weather which deteriorated rapidly.
Can you say WInDY?
It frikken howled through noon though most folks had adequate outerwear and did a lot of visiting.
Carl Hamilton served as ?paperboy?.
By early afternoon conditions improved enough to allow launching.
While still breezy on the surface, winds at altitude proved to be quite friendly.
?
I got my tower set up and the MOD V version of my 38mm bird loaded with a J575FJ
Pad weight was 4 lbs 11 oz. and the Fast Jack motor left a black trail as the rocket boosted to just over 10K?.
Main deployed almost overhead and recovery was just over the first ridge to the south of camp.
?
Conditions continued improving and rocket activity was steady through the 1900 end of waiver.
Another hour would most probably have been utilized as the conditions continued to improve through sunset.
?
I loaded up the MOD I version of my 54mm bird with an AMW K530GG.
Pad weight was 7 lbs 5.5 oz.
As seems to be common with the Green Gorilla?s I spit and chuffed out twice before Denny calmly walked up with an igniter and confidently said ?this will work?.
Well it did!? Not sure what was in his igniter but the motor came up to pressure nicely without any of the ?bang? that occurs with thermite.
Thanks Denny!
Boost was good to an apogee of just over 12K?.
Recovery was nominal until the primary main charge fired.
The N/C came off but the chute stuck in the upper end of the airframe.
Sign me up for another case where back-up electronics save the day as the main popped out just fine when the back-up charge fired.
?
A really nice camp fire capped off the evening.
We burned some awfully nice wood that the Launch Director called ?scrap?.
All I know is I saw folks stealing firewood and stashing it away for some future project at home.
?
Sunday morning dawned calm and clear with a good frost on anything left exposed.
Breezy conditions began shortly after the 0800 opening of the waiver but nothing bad.
?
There was an early barrage of a couple racks then typical Sunday sporadic activity through noon.
?
I loaded up my 24mm rocket with a SU F32-15 and a Walston.
Boost was good and then the chute stripped at apogee.
For a minute or three I thought the Walston was with the chute and a real? ?treasure hunt? was about to begin but thankfully, the Walston stuck with the rocket and I only lost the chute.
?
Heard about some new P.A. system but never heard from it.
?
Kudos to launch Director Mark Lyons.
Even without his diaper, he managed to always be available, first out to set up, and still tearing down when I departed.
?
FITS prep can now commence.
?
BoBeRt
?
Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 Check it out.

From faderlk at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 26 21:56:53 2009
From: faderlk at hotmail.com (william carpenter)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:56:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-Up Photos
Message-ID: <COL104-W16133873BB7DB9D68A551CBC710@phx.gbl>


Hello everybody,

 

Here are my fifty or so web-worthy photos from last weekend's launch. Please excuse the graininess on some of them... I have no idea what happened there.

 

Just click on the photo album titled "WAC Spring Tune-Up Launch 4/25-26/09".

 

If you'd like to be given credit by name for a photographed rocket, have a photo removed, or give me more information to put on a photo, just tell me and I can easily do it.

 

http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/apps/photos/

 

Regards, William Carpenter

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_more_042009
-------------- next part --------------
Hello everybody,
?
Here are my fifty or so web-worthy photos from last weekend's launch. Please excuse the graininess on some of them... I have no idea what happened there.
?
Just click on the photo album titled "WAC Spring Tune-Up Launch 4/25-26/09".
?
If you'd like to be given credit by name for a photographed?rocket, have a photo removed, or give me more information to put on a photo, just tell me and I can easily do it.
?
http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/apps/photos/ http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/apps/photos/
?
Regards, William Carpenter
Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_more_042009 Check it out.

From Mfreptiles at aol.com  Sun Apr 26 23:00:09 2009
From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 02:00:09 EDT
Subject: [RocketsNW] [AD]  Mixer for sale
Message-ID: <bf4.4b59c9a9.3726a3e9@aol.com>

I still have a 12 quart Reynolds mixer for sale complete with a good bowl,  
paddle, dough hook, and whip..  I'm lowering the price so that I can buy a  
new altimeter for Mr. Scary.
 
I'll let it go for $200.  Pick up in Salem or I can deliver it to an  OROC 
meeting or launch.  Visa or Mastercard accepted.
 
Mike F.
 
 
**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the 
web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
-------------- next part --------------
I still have a 12 quart Reynolds mixer for sale complete with a good bowl, paddle, dough hook, and whip..? I'm lowering the price so that I can buy a new altimeter for Mr. Scary.
?
I'll let it go for $200.? Pick up in Salem or I can deliver it to an OROC meeting or launch.? Visa or Mastercard accepted.
?
Mike F.
?
?
Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003 Get the Radio Toolbar
!

From appusher at q.com  Sun Apr 26 23:10:59 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 06:10:59 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-Up Photos
In-Reply-To: <COL104-W16133873BB7DB9D68A551CBC710@phx.gbl>
References: <COL104-W16133873BB7DB9D68A551CBC710@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU145-W24AAC63EBD7E83B1B658EBDC710@phx.gbl>


Thanks William.

 

You have some good shots.

 

It was good to put a face with a name and to meet your father.

 

See you at FITS.

 

Bill at PSP











 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me


 
> From: faderlk at hotmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:56:53 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-Up Photos
> 
> 
> Hello everybody,
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my fifty or so web-worthy photos from last weekend's launch. Please excuse the graininess on some of them... I have no idea what happened there.
> 
> 
> 
> Just click on the photo album titled "WAC Spring Tune-Up Launch 4/25-26/09".
> 
> 
> 
> If you'd like to be given credit by name for a photographed rocket, have a photo removed, or give me more information to put on a photo, just tell me and I can easily do it.
> 
> 
> 
> http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/apps/photos/
> 
> 
> 
> Regards, William Carpenter
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_more_042009
-------------- next part --------------
Thanks William.
?
You have some good shots.
?
It was good to put a face with a name and to meet your father.
?
See you at FITS.
?
mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
?
> From: faderlk at hotmail.com
> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com
> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:56:53 -0700
> Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Spring Tune-Up Photos
>
>
> Hello everybody,
>
>
>
> Here are my fifty or so web-worthy photos from last weekend's launch. Please excuse the graininess on some of them... I have no idea what happened there.
>
>
>
> Just click on the photo album titled "WAC Spring Tune-Up Launch 4/25-26/09".
>
>
>
> If you'd like to be given credit by name for a photographed rocket, have a photo removed, or give me more information to put on a photo, just tell me and I can easily do it.
>
>
>
> http://simav8rproductions.webs.com/apps/photos/
>
>
>
> Regards, William Carpenter
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_more_042009

From appusher at q.com  Mon Apr 27 12:54:35 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:54:35 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] April-Mansfield launch,
	FITS and June Brothers Information
Message-ID: <BLU145-W19DE9F67BEF0A8E286B464DC710@phx.gbl>


 

Dave and I are ordering for FITS and OROC at Brothers.

 

If you have any specific requests for Aerotech reloads, Rouse-Tech hardware, please let me know so I can make sure that you fliers can fly the propellant of your dreams.

 

The order is focused on Aerotech HPR.  We will be filling out our inventory 54mm, plugging some holes in 38mm and 29mm.  There have been specific requests for the reloads in the larger
54mm case sizes, and the 38mm upper end reload range.  

 

Dave and I have been working out the kinks in the Skyripper Hybrid System.  We have planned flights for FITS in the 38mm and 54mm K impulse.  We have received a new 38mm three case set 

that we will be doing demonstration flights.  Also, we have been working with a new flier to receive a Level 2 certification with a 38 or 54mm hybrid propulsion system.

After a few test fires at The Rocket Ranch of 29, 38, and 54mm we have increased our ignition percentage to 95% success rate.  There is an addition to the hybrid GSE.  We purchased a NOS Fill 

Vent Sensor recently.  This new addition is a remote sensor to indicate liquid escaping from the Fill Vent. The sensor provides a positive conformation the oxidizer tank in the motor is 100% full and ready to launch.

This provides a launch ready motor from the LCO control table via highly visible LED.  Our testing provides data to increase safety and performance with 100% performance at liftoff.

 

Our next addition will be GSE improvements to accommodate 2 simultaneous ignition for clustering of drag race.  This might just be available for FITS, stay tuned.

 

Aerotech and Rouse-Tech orders are going in at the start of business Tuesday morning.  Check your launch plan for the propellant or hardware that you will need.  Submit it to PSP before the start of business Tuesday morning 
and we will make sure we have it in stock for your need by date.

 

Final comments:

Washington Aerospace Club member, Mark Lyons, did a great job with his first launch as Launch Director in Mansfield at the Snell Ranch.  Launch activities ran smoothly for the 80 something flights.  A wide variety of attendees added to the experience. New-to-the-hobby and returnees-to-the-hobby were getting acquainted or reacquainted.  Not only with the hobby but with long-time members and active fliers.  The launch turned into quite a social event saturday night around the campfire.  Bill's drive-in movie fell short due to a lack of a video projector.  We'll work on it for future launches.

 

PSP would like to congratulate Peter Schurke, Teacher and Lead Advisor -Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy - Ingraham High School and his three TARC Teams for qualifying for Nationals.  Wait.  There's more, Peter and three of his students qualified Level 2 !  The TARC Teams are in need of donations toward the travel expenses for everyone to attend the TARC National Competition.  Nelle got a good start for the fund with her Rocket Bake Sale.

 

University of Washington Earth and Space Sciences group attended as well.  The group gave a short presentation to the TARC Team with questions following.  ESS spent most of saturday dialing in their research equipment.

 

There were numerous Certification flights throughout the weekend, also a congratulations to those fliers.

 

Dave and Bill @ The AP Dispensary.

 






 




 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
-------------- next part --------------
?
Dave and I are ordering for FITS and OROC at Brothers.
?
If you have any specific requests for Aerotech reloads, Rouse-Tech hardware, please let me know so I can make sure that you fliers?can fly?the propellant of your dreams.
?
The order is focused on Aerotech HPR.? We will be filling out our inventory 54mm, plugging some holes in 38mm and 29mm.? There have been specific requests for the reloads in the larger
54mm case sizes, and the 38mm upper end reload range.?
?
Dave and I have been working out the kinks in the Skyripper Hybrid System.? We have planned flights for FITS in the 38mm and 54mm K impulse.? We have received a new 38mm three case set
that we will be doing demonstration flights.? Also, we have been working with a new flier to receive a Level 2 certification with a 38 or 54mm hybrid propulsion system.
After a few test fires at The Rocket Ranch of 29, 38, and 54mm we have increased our ignition percentage to 95% success rate.? There is an addition to the hybrid GSE.? We purchased a NOS Fill
Vent Sensor recently.? This new addition is a remote sensor to indicate liquid escaping from the Fill Vent.?The sensor provides a positive conformation the oxidizer tank in the motor is 100% full and ready to launch.
This provides a launch ready motor from the LCO control table via highly visible LED.? Our testing provides data to increase safety and performance with 100% performance at liftoff.
?
Our next addition will be GSE improvements to accommodate 2 simultaneous ignition for clustering of drag race.? This might just be available for FITS, stay tuned.
?
Aerotech and Rouse-Tech orders are going in at the start of business Tuesday morning.? Check your launch plan for the propellant or hardware that you will need.? Submit it to PSP before the start of business Tuesday morning
and we will make sure we have it in stock for your need by date.
?
Final comments:
Washington Aerospace Club member, Mark Lyons, did a great job with his first launch as Launch Director in Mansfield at the Snell Ranch.? Launch activities ran smoothly for the 80 something flights.? A wide variety of attendees added to the experience.?New-to-the-hobby and returnees-to-the-hobby were getting acquainted or reacquainted.? Not only with the hobby but with long-time members and active fliers.? The launch turned into?quite a social event saturday night around the campfire.? Bill's drive-in movie fell short due to a lack of a video projector.? We'll work on it for future launches.
?
PSP would like to congratulate Peter Schurke, Teacher and Lead Advisor -Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy -?Ingraham High School?and his three TARC Teams for qualifying for Nationals.? Wait.? There's more, Peter and three of his students qualified Level 2 !? The TARC Teams are in need of donations toward the travel expenses for everyone to attend the TARC National Competition.? Nelle got a good start for the fund with her Rocket Bake Sale.
?
University of Washington Earth and Space Sciences group attended as well.? The group gave a short presentation to the TARC Team with questions following.? ESS spent most of saturday dialing in their research equipment.
?
There were numerous Certification flights?throughout the weekend, also a congratulations to those fliers.
?
Dave and Bill @ The AP Dispensary.
?
?
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

From pmschurke at seattleschools.org  Mon Apr 27 13:15:08 2009
From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:15:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] April-Mansfield launch,
	FITS and June Brothers Information
In-Reply-To: <BLU145-W19DE9F67BEF0A8E286B464DC710@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU145-W19DE9F67BEF0A8E286B464DC710@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A10942DA26@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org>

Thanks for the shout-out, Bill!
 
One slight correction.  I completed my L2 certification and one of my
students certified both L1 and L2 over the weekend (her Senior Project).
The other two students completed Jr. HPR Participation certs, so are
only provisional L1's.
 
All my students had an amazing time flying and interacting with all the
incredibly gracious "Rocket Jocks" that made it out to the launch.  My
hat is off to all of you for the excellent time you showed them...thank
you all so much!
 
Special thanks to: 
Mark Lyons (for signing off on my successful L2 flight and an all-around
incredible job all weekend.  You did so well as the "sacrificial first
launch director of the year" that the kids decided not to sacrifice you
to the Rocket Gods after all...), 
Kent Newman (for signing off on my successful L2 flight, for mailing in
all the paperwork, and for teaching me the ropes of LCO and RSO
duties...guess it's time for me to start pitching in now), 
Bret Simpkins (for partnering up with me to sign off on my student's
successful L2 flight),
The guys at PSP  (Bill and Dave, the kids absolutely love you guys!
They learn so much from you every time they come to a launch!)
Dr. Robert Winglee and the UW Rocketry gang (It was wonderful to meet
you all.  Maybe next time we won't all have to drive 200 miles to hook
up!)
 
Now...to see if I can convince the wife that going to FITS the weekend
after Nationals is actually a GOOD idea....
 
Peter Schurke 
Teacher and Lead Advisor 
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy 
Ingraham High School 
Seattle, WA 


________________________________

From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:55 PM
To: rockets at rocketsnw.com; WAC LIST
Cc: Bill at PSP
Subject: April-Mansfield launch, FITS and June Brothers Information


 
Dave and I are ordering for FITS and OROC at Brothers.
 
If you have any specific requests for Aerotech reloads, Rouse-Tech
hardware, please let me know so I can make sure that you fliers can fly
the propellant of your dreams.
 
The order is focused on Aerotech HPR.  We will be filling out our
inventory 54mm, plugging some holes in 38mm and 29mm.  There have been
specific requests for the reloads in the larger
54mm case sizes, and the 38mm upper end reload range.  
 
Dave and I have been working out the kinks in the Skyripper Hybrid
System.  We have planned flights for FITS in the 38mm and 54mm K
impulse.  We have received a new 38mm three case set 
that we will be doing demonstration flights.  Also, we have been working
with a new flier to receive a Level 2 certification with a 38 or 54mm
hybrid propulsion system.
After a few test fires at The Rocket Ranch of 29, 38, and 54mm we have
increased our ignition percentage to 95% success rate.  There is an
addition to the hybrid GSE.  We purchased a NOS Fill 
Vent Sensor recently.  This new addition is a remote sensor to indicate
liquid escaping from the Fill Vent. The sensor provides a positive
conformation the oxidizer tank in the motor is 100% full and ready to
launch.
This provides a launch ready motor from the LCO control table via highly
visible LED.  Our testing provides data to increase safety and
performance with 100% performance at liftoff.
 
Our next addition will be GSE improvements to accommodate 2 simultaneous
ignition for clustering of drag race.  This might just be available for
FITS, stay tuned.
 
Aerotech and Rouse-Tech orders are going in at the start of business
Tuesday morning.  Check your launch plan for the propellant or hardware
that you will need.  Submit it to PSP before the start of business
Tuesday morning 
and we will make sure we have it in stock for your need by date.
 
Final comments:
Washington Aerospace Club member, Mark Lyons, did a great job with his
first launch as Launch Director in Mansfield at the Snell Ranch.  Launch
activities ran smoothly for the 80 something flights.  A wide variety of
attendees added to the experience. New-to-the-hobby and
returnees-to-the-hobby were getting acquainted or reacquainted.  Not
only with the hobby but with long-time members and active fliers.  The
launch turned into quite a social event saturday night around the
campfire.  Bill's drive-in movie fell short due to a lack of a video
projector.  We'll work on it for future launches.
 
PSP would like to congratulate Peter Schurke, Teacher and Lead Advisor
-Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy - Ingraham High School and his
three TARC Teams for qualifying for Nationals.  Wait.  There's more,
Peter and three of his students qualified Level 2 !  The TARC Teams are
in need of donations toward the travel expenses for everyone to attend
the TARC National Competition.  Nelle got a good start for the fund with
her Rocket Bake Sale.
 
University of Washington Earth and Space Sciences group attended as
well.  The group gave a short presentation to the TARC Team with
questions following.  ESS spent most of saturday dialing in their
research equipment.
 
There were numerous Certification flights throughout the weekend, also a
congratulations to those fliers.
 
Dave and Bill @ The AP Dispensary.
 





 

i'm EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
<http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood> 	
-------------- next part --------------
Thanks for the shout-out, Bill!
?
One slight correction.? I completed my L2 certification and one of my students certified both L1 and L2 over the weekend (her Senior Project).? The other two students completed Jr. HPR Participation certs, so are only provisional L1's.
?
All my students had an amazing time flying and interacting with all the incredibly gracious?"Rocket Jocks"?that made it out to the launch.? My hat is off to all of you for the excellent time you showed them...thank you all so much!
?
Special thanks to:
Mark Lyons
(for signing off on my successful L2 flight and an all-around incredible job all weekend.? You did so well as the "sacrificial first launch director of the year" that the kids decided not to sacrifice?you to the Rocket Gods after all...),
Kent Newman
(for signing off on my successful L2 flight, for mailing in all the paperwork,?and for teaching me the ropes of LCO and RSO duties...guess it's time for me to start pitching in now),
Bret Simpkins
(for partnering up with me to sign off on my student's successful L2 flight),
The guys at PSP
? (Bill and Dave, the kids absolutely love you guys!? They learn so much from you every time they come to a launch!)
Dr. Robert Winglee and the UW Rocketry gang
(It was wonderful to meet you all.? Maybe next time we won't all have to drive 200 miles to hook up!)
?
Now...to see if I can convince the wife that going to FITS the weekend after Nationals is actually a GOOD idea....
?
Peter Schurke
Teacher and Lead Advisor
Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy
Ingraham High School
Seattle, WA
From:
Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com]
Sent:
Monday, April 27, 2009 12:55 PM
To:
rockets at rocketsnw.com; WAC LIST
Cc:
Bill at PSP
Subject:
April-Mansfield launch, FITS and June Brothers Information
?
Dave and I are ordering for FITS and OROC at Brothers.
?
If you have any specific requests for Aerotech reloads, Rouse-Tech hardware, please let me know so I can make sure that you fliers?can fly?the propellant of your dreams.
?
The order is focused on Aerotech HPR.? We will be filling out our inventory 54mm, plugging some holes in 38mm and 29mm.? There have been specific requests for the reloads in the larger
54mm case sizes, and the 38mm upper end reload range.?
?
Dave and I have been working out the kinks in the Skyripper Hybrid System.? We have planned flights for FITS in the 38mm and 54mm K impulse.? We have received a new 38mm three case set
that we will be doing demonstration flights.? Also, we have been working with a new flier to receive a Level 2 certification with a 38 or 54mm hybrid propulsion system.
After a few test fires at The Rocket Ranch of 29, 38, and 54mm we have increased our ignition percentage to 95% success rate.? There is an addition to the hybrid GSE.? We purchased a NOS Fill
Vent Sensor recently.? This new addition is a remote sensor to indicate liquid escaping from the Fill Vent.?The sensor provides a positive conformation the oxidizer tank in the motor is 100% full and ready to launch.
This provides a launch ready motor from the LCO control table via highly visible LED.? Our testing provides data to increase safety and performance with 100% performance at liftoff.
?
Our next addition will be GSE improvements to accommodate 2 simultaneous ignition for clustering of drag race.? This might just be available for FITS, stay tuned.
?
Aerotech and Rouse-Tech orders are going in at the start of business Tuesday morning.? Check your launch plan for the propellant or hardware that you will need.? Submit it to PSP before the start of business Tuesday morning
and we will make sure we have it in stock for your need by date.
?
Final comments:
Washington Aerospace Club member, Mark Lyons, did a great job with his first launch as Launch Director in Mansfield at the Snell Ranch.? Launch activities ran smoothly for the 80 something flights.? A wide variety of attendees added to the experience.?New-to-the-hobby and returnees-to-the-hobby were getting acquainted or reacquainted.? Not only with the hobby but with long-time members and active fliers.? The launch turned into?quite a social event saturday night around the campfire.? Bill's drive-in movie fell short due to a lack of a video projector.? We'll work on it for future launches.
?
PSP would like to congratulate Peter Schurke, Teacher and Lead Advisor -Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy -?Ingraham High School?and his three TARC Teams for qualifying for Nationals.? Wait.? There's more, Peter and three of his students qualified Level 2 !? The TARC Teams are in need of donations toward the travel expenses for everyone to attend the TARC National Competition.? Nelle got a good start for the fund with her Rocket Bake Sale.
?
University of Washington Earth and Space Sciences group attended as well.? The group gave a short presentation to the TARC Team with questions following.? ESS spent most of saturday dialing in their research equipment.
?
There were numerous Certification flights?throughout the weekend, also a congratulations to those fliers.
?
Dave and Bill @ The AP Dispensary.
?
?
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

From mattjones1961 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 16:50:41 2009
From: mattjones1961 at gmail.com (Matt Jones)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:50:41 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Saturn V Video
In-Reply-To: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2>
References: <57094A1C7C834530901DAEC9F50B7B95@Mobile2>
Message-ID: <49F644D1.6000003@gmail.com>

Popular mechanics has a article about it.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/workshop/4315103.html

-=Matt=-
-------------- next part --------------
Popular mechanics has a article about it.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/workshop/4315103.html http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/workshop/4315103.html
-=Matt=-

From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net  Mon Apr 27 22:53:36 2009
From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:53:36 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS 2009
Message-ID: <002a01c9c7c5$aca8d400$05fa7c00$@net>

Hello everyone.  With the first launch of the year in the books it?s time to
get ready for Fire in the Sky 2009.  Denny Smith and myself will once again
be your humble launch directors.  So without any further ado here?s the
specifics. If you have any questions please feel free to let us know.

 

 

When: May 22nd to May 25th

Where: Mansfield Washington at the Sportsman?s Club

How high: 8,000 feet at the racetrack and 14,000 feet from the away cell

Lodging:  We?ll have camping onsite or for those that need a little more
creature comfort, The Waterville Hotel is just a stone?s throw away.

 

 

Getting Started:

?         T-shirts and hats.  Once again this year we?ll be selling hats,
short sleeve, and long sleeve T-shirts.  Deadline to order is Friday May
8th. To order send myself or Denny Smith an email with the quantity, type,
and size. The shirts are 100% cotton and will have the logo embroidered on
the upper left.  The hats are 100% cotton, 6-panel construction, mid profile
with a Velcro closure.  Pricing is as follows:

Hats: $16

                Short sleeve shirts: $18

Long sleeve shirts: $21

 

?         Launch duty signups.  We can?t make this work without your help.
You can sign up now or I can sign you up later.
http://www.northwestrocketry.com/default.asp?page=http://www.northwestrocket
ry.com/launchsignup.asp.  

?         Pre-registration is now open.  Just go to
http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php and you can register and
pay online!

?         For all the latest and greatest information about FITS 2009 go to
the website at http://www.fireinthesky.org/FITS2009.htm

?         If you have a special project you want to share send me a mail and
we?ll add it to our special projects page
http://www.fireinthesky.org/SpecProj-2009.htm.

 

 

Stuff to do:

?         Research launch at the Sportsman?s Club on Friday May 22nd
directed by the helpful and courteous Kent Newman.

?         Night launch Saturday night from 8:30 PM ? 10:00 PM.

?         Rocket contests hosted by Jim Wilkerson.  Timed recovery on an I
motor, J motor multiple eggloft, and an upscale on a H ? K.  Go to
http://www.fireinthesky.org/FITS2009Comp.htm for more information.

?         Stargazing by the Tacoma Astronomy Society and Sunriver Nature
Center.

?         Fly rockets.  What would a rocket launch be without launching
rockets?

?         FITS 2009 video casting call.  Do you have what it takes to get on
DVD?  Guess what?  At FITS 2009 everyone does!

?         Fine dining.  The Sunflower Caf? will be on site to serve up
wholesome and delicious meals and snacks.

?         Saturday night raffle.

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
Hello everyone. With the first launch of the year in the books it???s time to get ready for Fire in the Sky 2009. Denny Smith and myself will once again be your humble launch directors. So without any further ado here???s the specifics. If you have any questions please feel free to let us know.
?
?
When: May 22
nd
to May 25
th
Where: Mansfield Washington at the Sportsman???s Club
How high: 8,000 feet at the racetrack and 14,000 feet from the away cell
Lodging: We???ll have camping onsite or for those that need a little more creature comfort, The Waterville Hotel is just a stone???s throw away.
?
?
Getting Started:
?
????????
T-shirts and hats. Once again this year we???ll be selling hats, short sleeve, and long sleeve T-shirts. Deadline to order is Friday May 8
th
. To order send myself or Denny Smith an email with the quantity, type, and size. The shirts are 100% cotton and will have the logo embroidered on the upper left.? The hats are 100% cotton, 6-panel construction, mid profile with a Velcro closure.? Pricing is as follows:
Hats: $16
??????????????? Short sleeve shirts: $18
Long sleeve shirts: $21
?
?
????????
Launch duty signups. We can???t make this work without your help. You can sign up now or I can sign you up later. http://www.northwestrocketry.com/default.asp?page=http://www.northwestrocketry.com/launchsignup.asp http://www.northwestrocketry.com/default.asp?page=http://www.northwestrocketry.com/launchsignup.asp
.?
?
????????
Pre-registration is now open.? Just go to http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php http://www.washingtonaerospace.org/fits_form.php
and you can register and pay online!
?
????????
For all the latest and greatest information about FITS 2009 go to the website at http://www.fireinthesky.org/FITS2009.htm http://www.fireinthesky.org/FITS2009.htm
?
????????
If you have a special project you want to share send me a mail and we???ll add it to our special projects page http://www.fireinthesky.org/SpecProj-2009.htm http://www.fireinthesky.org/SpecProj-2009.htm
.
?
?
Stuff to do:
?
????????
Research launch at the Sportsman???s Club on Friday May 22
nd
directed by the helpful and courteous Kent Newman.
?
????????
Night launch Saturday night from 8:30 PM ??? 10:00 PM.
?
????????
Rocket contests hosted by Jim Wilkerson. Timed recovery on an I motor, J motor multiple eggloft, and an upscale on a H ??? K. Go to http://www.fireinthesky.org/FITS2009Comp.htm http://www.fireinthesky.org/FITS2009Comp.htm
for more information.
?
????????
Stargazing by the Tacoma Astronomy Society and Sunriver Nature Center.
?
????????
Fly rockets.? What would a rocket launch be without launching rockets?
?
????????
FITS 2009 video casting call.? Do you have what it takes to get on DVD?? Guess what?? At FITS 2009 everyone does!
?
????????
Fine dining.? The Sunflower Caf? will be on site to serve up wholesome and delicious meals and snacks.
?
????????
Saturday night raffle.
?
?

From rockets at penian.com  Tue Apr 28 06:25:30 2009
From: rockets at penian.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Paul=20Nelson?=)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 05:25:30 -0800
Subject: [RocketsNW] =?iso-8859-1?q?OT_-_ATF_application_for_Collector_of_?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Curios_and_Relics?=
Message-ID: <20090428132530.24673.qmail@server298.com>

Anyone on the list applied for or have this license? Please contact me off list.
Thanks,


Paul Nelson

The opinions expressed in this email do not reflect the opinions of any individual. ? Please discontinue reading this email if you experience hallucinations or incontinence. ? Any resemblance to a real email, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ? This email not tested with live animals. ? This email was created by a trained professional, using a highly modified computer; do not attempt to recreate it. ? This email uses only recycled electrons. ? Do not use alcohol in excess while reading this email. ? Some settling of email contents may occur during transmission. Do not read this email while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. ? Recipients are responsible for any local email taxes. ? This email subject to change without notice. ? Do not take this email internally. ? Check label for instructions on how to care for this email. ? Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect or error in this email. ? Please wear safety glasses while reading this email ? This email will not prevent spread of STDs. ? Please store this email in a cool, dry server. ? Email author does not carry cash. ? This email should not be read by women who are pregnant or may become pregnant. ? Your reading time may vary. ? Please note where the nearest exits from this email are located. ? Keep this email out of reach of children. ?Your chance of winning depends on the number of emails received. ? This email was processed on a computer that has also processed peanuts and shellfish. ? Only a doctor can tell if this email is right for you.

From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Tue Apr 28 22:58:20 2009
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:58:20 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Launch Update............
Message-ID: <a06240803c61d9cf75c94@[10.0.1.22]>

Greetings rocketeers......

Just a reminder that the upcoming May launches are right around the corner.

We have placed orders for all sorts of stuff, including motors and 
hardware. We now are carrying accessories from Newton's 3rd Rocketry, 
new products from LOC & Quickburst.

We will be attending with a expanded booth at the launch at Brothers 
on Saturday and Sunday in May, and the following weekend at FITS up 
in Washington. Then off to Dayton for the June launch.

We will NOT be a vendor on site for the OROC June launch, BUT will 
have motors and other products delivered to the site on a PRE-ORDER 
only. NO booth will be set up.

WE are waiting to get advice regarding what is happening with the ATF 
ruling. I will announce any changes in how we deliver motors and how 
we all will be operating as soon as we can. I hope by the end of May 
we will have a plan, hopefully sooner!!!

Look forward to seeing you all soon.
Bob Grossfeld
Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 10:41:59 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:41:59 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] Oregon Rocketry; Spring Thunder Launch May 15th - 17th
Message-ID: <f9b1fff60904291041l5ae25333td89ac6ebf9ce75fb@mail.gmail.com>

?Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight? gonna grab some afternoon rocket
flying?

Sky rockets in flight? Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight??



OK? Now that I got that terrible song stuck in your head, it?s time to make
an important announcement. That?s right boys and girl!!! Oregon Rocketry
will be hosting Spring Thunder on May 15th, 16th, and 17th in Brothers
Oregon. We?ve called in a ?good weather? waiver and certainly hope you will
join us for a great weekend of rocketry and friends.



Is that terrible song still stuck in your head? Be careful! Don?t look back
up to the top of this email, or it might get stuck again. You looked, didn?t
you?



Oregon Rocketry will be hosting the Spring Thunder launch located in
Brothers Oregon. We certainly hope you can attend for some fun.



Research launch is on Friday May 15th. Must be Tripoli L1 or higher to
participate in the prep or range areas. TRA L1 and higher can fly commercial
motors and TRA L2 and higher can fly both EX and commercial motors. Others,
including invited guests and OROC members can watch from the spectator area
of the flight line.



Saturday May 16th and Sunday May 17th are commercial motors only, and
welcome to everyone to participate. Upon arrival visit the LCO or
Registration desk for a wrist band. Everyone present, flier or not, must
have a wrist band for the commercial launch days. Everyone is required to
sign a liability waiver or have one on file for 2009. Youth under age 18
must have parent or guardian sign a liability waiver as well.



Schedule: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/cal/cal-launch.htm

Directions: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm



The Brother?s site is fantastic for launching rockets. If the weather is
good, the flying part is fantastic as well. Oregon Rocketry is proud to host
a 22,500 feet MSL waiver (18,500 AGL) from 8:00am until 10:00pm, with
call-in temporary extensions to 35,000 feet AGL. Night launch will be held
on Saturday night from dusk until 10:00pm. Only requirement is the rocket
must have lighting so we can see it. Still have two weeks to create an idea
and get some lights on it.



We are closing in on the event and looking to make sure we have ground
support help to make sure the launch event goes well. Similar to all other
launches, we look for help so we all of us have an opportunity to launch
some rockets. We will need some assistance on Friday afternoon setting up
the launch equipment. And again Sunday afternoon we?ll need some help to
pack up the launch equipment. During the launch, there will be a clipboard
at the LCO desk with duties and coverage times. Stop by Saturday morning and
if you can help, please put your name down. We truly appreciate the shared
experience.



Certification Flights: We will have both NAR and TRA representation for L1
and L2 certification flights. If you are planning to certify during the May
launch, please send me an email. Include NAR or TRA, what level you?re
attempting, and day & time you?re planning the flight. Also let me know if
you are already a member of NAR or TRA.



We are planning a Showcase Event on Saturday night at 7:00pm. This showcase
is ?Recovery Systems.? Stop by and share your technique for parachute
packaging, protection, and harnesses. Do you tri-fold the chute? Do you pack
it into a Kevlar burrito? What material do you use for a shock cord? Do you
simply stuff the chute in the rocket? Stop by. Share your recovery system
and techniques. Watch techniques of others. This should be fun for all, so
participate in the event.



New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site,
and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be
prepared to both extremes. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500
feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water,
water. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site
food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the
Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great
time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site.

http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm



Come prepared and have a great time. Families are welcome. Hope to see
everyone out on the sage. Take care and see you in a couple weeks. Now I?m
off to watch epoxy dry.



Cheers,

Robert
-------------- next part --------------
?Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight? gonna grab some afternoon rocket flying?
Sky rockets in flight? Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight??
?
OK? Now that I got that terrible song stuck in your head, it?s time to make an important announcement. That?s right boys and girl!!! Oregon Rocketry will be hosting Spring Thunder on May 15
th
, 16
th
, and 17
th
in Brothers Oregon. We?ve called in a ?good weather? waiver and certainly hope you will join us for a great weekend of rocketry and friends.
?
Is that terrible song still stuck in your head? Be careful! Don?t look back up to the top of this email, or it might get stuck again. You looked, didn?t you?
?
Oregon Rocketry will be hosting the Spring Thunder launch located in Brothers Oregon. We certainly hope you can attend for some fun.
?
Research launch is on Friday May 15
th
. Must be Tripoli L1 or higher to participate in the prep or range areas. TRA L1 and higher can fly commercial motors and TRA L2 and higher can fly both EX and commercial motors. Others, including invited guests and OROC members can watch from the spectator area of the flight line.
?
Saturday May 16
th
and Sunday May 17
th
are commercial motors only, and welcome to everyone to participate. Upon arrival visit the LCO or Registration desk for a wrist band. Everyone present, flier or not, must have a wrist band for the commercial launch days. Everyone is required to sign a liability waiver or have one on file for 2009. Youth under age 18 must have parent or guardian sign a liability waiver as well.
?
Schedule: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/cal/cal-launch.htm http://www.oregonrocketry.com/cal/cal-launch.htm
Directions: http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm http://www.oregonrocketry.com/dir/dir-bro.htm
?
The Brother?s site is fantastic for launching rockets. If the weather is good, the flying part is fantastic as well. Oregon Rocketry is proud to host a 22,500 feet MSL waiver (18,500 AGL) from 8:00am until 10:00pm, with call-in temporary extensions to 35,000 feet AGL. Night launch will be held on Saturday night from dusk until 10:00pm. Only requirement is the rocket must have lighting so we can see it. Still have two weeks to create an idea and get some lights on it.
?
?
We are closing in on the event and looking to make sure we have ground support help to make sure the launch event goes well. Similar to all other launches, we look for help so we all of us have an opportunity to launch some rockets. We will need some assistance on Friday afternoon setting up the launch equipment. And again Sunday afternoon we?ll need some help to pack up the launch equipment. During the launch, there will be a clipboard at the LCO desk with duties and coverage times. Stop by Saturday morning and if you can help, please put your name down. We truly appreciate the shared experience.
?
Certification Flights: We will have both NAR and TRA representation for L1 and L2 certification flights. If you are planning to certify during the May launch, please send me an email. Include NAR or TRA, what level you?re attempting, and day & time you?re planning the flight. Also let me know if you are already a member of NAR or TRA.
?
We are planning a Showcase Event on Saturday night at 7:00pm. This showcase is ?Recovery Systems.? Stop by and share your technique for parachute packaging, protection, and harnesses. Do you tri-fold the chute? Do you pack it into a Kevlar burrito? What material do you use for a shock cord? Do you simply stuff the chute in the rocket? Stop by. Share your recovery system and techniques. Watch techniques of others. This should be fun for all, so participate in the event.
?
New to OROC or Brothers? If so, welcome. Brothers is a great launch site, and has a spectacular view of the Three Sisters mountain. You need to be prepared to both extremes. Cold nights and hot days. Launch site is at 4,500 feet, sunburns can happen quicker. Oh, and kind of important - water, water, water. Camping is allowed and we?ll have porta potties available. No on-site food vendors. Visit the Oregon Rocketry web site to learn more about the Brothers site, rules, and recommendations. While we expect to have a great time, we are also very persistent about minimal impact to the site.
http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm http://www.oregonrocketry.com/pol/pol-oroc.htm
?
Come prepared and have a great time. Families are welcome. Hope to see everyone out on the sage. Take care and see you in a couple weeks. Now I?m off to watch epoxy dry.
?
Cheers,
Robert
?
?

From rocfish74 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 29 18:00:29 2009
From: rocfish74 at hotmail.com (Mark Lyons)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:00:29 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] April shake down launch( Rockets with Mark at Mansfield)
Message-ID: <BLU135-W4F596456174619D62B540A66C0@phx.gbl>


Sorry folks, I'm still waiting for my head to stop spinning.

 

Thanks to all for coming out to fly rockets with me.

A more detailed report will follow.

 

Sacrificial First Launch of the Year Director

Mark Lyons

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage.  
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009
-------------- next part --------------
Sorry folks, I'm still waiting for my head to stop spinning.
?
Thanks to all for coming out to fly rockets with me.
A more detailed report will follow.
?
Sacrificial First Launch of the Year Director
Mark Lyons
Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009 Check it out.

From MartyWeiser at comcast.net  Wed Apr 29 18:23:16 2009
From: MartyWeiser at comcast.net (Marty2)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:23:16 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection
In-Reply-To: <BLU135-W4F596456174619D62B540A66C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU135-W4F596456174619D62B540A66C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <009001c9c932$3e0da840$ba28f8c0$@net>

All,

I had my ATF inspection today and it went well.  I once again got to be the
example to train the new field agent so it was fairly detailed.  They left
me with copy of ATF Publication 5400.15 which is a discussion of storage and
record keeping.  The suggestion was made to make a note in my records when
items are removed to take to a launch in my day box so I can confirm they
were either consumed or returned to the magazine.  Not a formal removal from
the magazine, but more of daily log to insure nothing gets misplaced or
stolen at the launch.  Based upon our discussion, I think this
recommendation is based upon the blasting industry where it is easy misplace
a small item or two.

Both agents were aware of the court ruling, but they indicated that they
have received no direction as to how to it will impact things.  They agreed
with me that any appeal would probably be filed at the last moment.

Marty


From keithp at keithp.com  Wed Apr 29 20:10:03 2009
From: keithp at keithp.com (Keith Packard)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:10:03 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] May 10th 2-5;
	OROC Astronaut's Birthday Model Launch @ Memorial	Park Wilsonville
Message-ID: <1241061003.8927.22.camel@aiko.keithp.com>


Celebrating two astronaut birthdays!
Lisa Nowak and Ellen Ochoa were both born on May 10.

Oregon Rocketry is again hosting a Model Rocket Launch event at Memorial
Park in Wilsonville, Oregon on May 10th, 2009. Setup begins at 1:00pm,
range is open for flights between 2:00pm and 5:00pm

Class 1 rockets under the new FAR101 unmanned rocket rules include; (1)
Uses no more than 125 grams (4.4 ounces) of propellant; (2) Uses a
slow-burning propellant; (3) Is made of paper, wood, or breakable
plastic; (4) Contains no substantial metal parts; and (5) Weighs no more
than 1,500 grams (53 ounces), including the propellant. A through G
motors are welcome, and even some H motors. You must however stay below
our altitude limits. Conditions of the site mostly limit us to 1000 feet
or cloud deck. Clear conditions and zero/low wind may permit higher
fights. Ask the LCO if restrictions apply and approval for flight. 

Join us. Bring the family. Bring some rockets and have a great time
flying. No RSVP necessary, just show up. When you arrive at the park,
turn to the left and follow the road into the South East section of the
field.

Wilsonville Memorial Park
8100 SW Wilsonville Rd.
Wilsonville, OR 97070

Getting strange looks from the family for wanting to fly rockets on
Mother's day? Take mom out for dinner after the event. Or take her home
after the event for a great barbeque. What a great day, BP / AP in the
early afternoon and then a great dinner afterward.

Fliers; 
Event time is 2:00pm - 5:00pm; all NAR rules apply, plus any additional
rules / restrictions for this site. A fliers meeting right at noon, so
everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions. LCO tables are
not for prep, please use the available tables in the prep area. This is
a sanctioned launch event by National Association of Rocketry through
NAR section 555 OREO (Steve Tarr). Come prepared for cold weather and
wear boots/shoes that will keep feet warm and dry.

Tim Ryerse and OROC have put together a special raffle prize for any
junior flyers.

Support staff; 
We are planning to arrive by 1:00pm to scope out parking and field
preference. We'll have a six rod launch pad (has 1/8, 3/8, and 1/4"
rods), and two LCO tables, flight line stakes, and a couple of launch
controllers. So no OROC GSE is needed for this event. We need extra
tables for the prep area. We'll hold a fliers meeting right at noon, so
everyone is on the same page for rules / restrictions.

We've put in a special request for decent weather this month; after our
damp March event, and our blow-out April event, surely May will bring
calm winds and clear skies.

-- 
keith.packard at intel.com
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From appusher at q.com  Wed Apr 29 20:27:51 2009
From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 03:27:51 +0000
Subject: [RocketsNW] FITS Information and motor availability
Message-ID: <BLU145-W26EBC1E2DAFC17991B7507DC6C0@phx.gbl>


Hi Fliers,

 

We just confirmed with Diane at Aerotech that our latest order for reloads will arrive in time for FITS.  Anyone wanting to make sure they have their reloads locked in can email us an order today

We will stop taking order one week prior to the launch so we can get loaded and ready to go.  Of course, as always, pre-paid orders are requested.  Check at par or Credit Card thru PayPal at an additional 3%.

 

We are working with a few new fliers that will attempt certifications at FITS.  Many are returning to the hobby and a few that are jumping the Level 1 certification to Level 2.  One flier will be attempting a level 2

with a Sky Ripper Hybrid.  So, don't miss out by not coming out to the launch.

 

Washington Aerospace has news and Information about Fire In The Sky from this link....http://www.fireinthesky.org/FITS2009.htm
As a vendor and member, I encourage everyone to take a look at the website WAC has posted concerning  Fire In The Sky.  Documents concerning liability waivers and proccedures are there.

The club has a handy link to sign up for duties contributing to the launch.  Please take the time to contribute to the duties to help out the Launch Director.  Mike Wyvel and Denny can't do it all.

 

I received an email from Tsolo.  Our beloved rocket photographer, will be attending.  He has generously offered his video projector for Bill's Drive-In movie night(s) !  So bring your Rocket related DVD movies

so we have a bit of selection on the marquee.  I strongly recommend getting together with Tsolo to have your rocket launch photograghed.  Display it in your rec room or even your cube at work.  They are a real

conversation starter.  

 

We are keeping a close watch on ATF issues with the court case.  I will post anything new that we find out concerning LEUP and FITS procedures.  

 

Dave and I will bring the Sky Ripper GSE and be doing demo flights with fine tuned equipment.  If you have a rocket with a 29mm, 38mm, or 54mm(big enough to handle a K flight) then contact Dave at 

customer-service at pugetsoundpropulsion.com.  Maybe you can be one of the lucky winners of a hybrid flight.  We will have some Sky Ripper Hybrid motors and sets for sale as well.  We can walk you thru assembling the motor and familiarize you with the GSE procedures.  Dave and I would like to thank Bill Clugston and Andrew MacMillen for pioneering the hybrid systems that we are integrating into our GSE.

 

Another notable item, we have confirmed attendance by University of Washington Earth and Space Sciences, and Ingraham High School TARC Teams.  Yes, TEAMS.  The only Three Qualifying Teams headed to the Nationals from the Western United States.  I encourage you to stop by their camp and check out the teams and their rockets.  Top Shelf stuff AND members.  Please consider stuffing their donation box to cover travel expenses to the Nationals.  You might get lucky and get some great baked goods.  Nelle stepped up with her project of a Bake Sale Fund Raiser at the Snell Ranch Launch.  Mouth watering Rocket Cookies !  Stop on by their camp and exchange info or $$ for cooKies.  

 

Dave and I plan to arrive at the launch site on Thursday mid day sometime.  Come on out early to help set up the range or just plain prep rockets to be first in line when the waiver opens on Saturday.

 

See ya all in Mansfield,

 

Dave and Bill

PugetSoundPropulsion.com 








 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
-------------- next part --------------
Hi Fliers,
?
We just confirmed with Diane at Aerotech that our latest order for reloads will arrive in time for FITS.? Anyone wanting to make sure they have their reloads locked in can email us an order today
We will stop taking order one week prior to the launch so we can get loaded and ready to go.? Of course, as always, pre-paid orders are requested.? Check at par or Credit Card thru PayPal at an additional 3%.
?
We are working with a few new fliers that will attempt certifications at FITS.? Many are returning to the hobby and a few that are jumping the Level 1 certification to Level 2.? One flier will be attempting a level 2
with a Sky Ripper Hybrid.? So, don't miss out by not coming out to the launch.
?
Washington Aerospace has news and Information about Fire In The Sky from this link.... http://www.fireinthesky.org/FITS2009.htm http://www.fireinthesky.org/FITS2009.htm
As a vendor and member, I encourage everyone to take a look at the website WAC has posted concerning? Fire In The Sky.? Documents concerning liability waivers and proccedures are there.
The club has a handy link to sign up for duties contributing to the launch.? Please take the time to contribute to the duties to help out the Launch Director.? Mike Wyvel and Denny can't do it all.
?
I received an email from Tsolo.? Our beloved rocket photographer, will be attending.? He has generously offered his video projector for Bill's Drive-In movie night(s) !? So bring your Rocket related DVD movies
so we have a bit of selection on the marquee.? I strongly recommend getting together with Tsolo to have your rocket launch photograghed.? Display it in your rec room or even your cube at work.? They are a real
conversation starter.?
?
We are keeping a close watch on ATF issues with the court case.? I?will post anything new that we find out concerning LEUP and FITS procedures.?
?
Dave and I will bring the Sky Ripper GSE and be doing demo flights with fine tuned equipment.? If you have a rocket with a 29mm, 38mm, or 54mm(big enough to handle a K flight) then contact Dave at
mailto:customer-service at pugetsoundpropulsion.com customer-service at pugetsoundpropulsion.com
.? Maybe you can be one of the lucky winners of a hybrid flight.? We will have some Sky Ripper Hybrid motors and sets for sale as well.? We can walk you thru?assembling the motor and familiarize you with the GSE procedures.? Dave and I would like to thank Bill Clugston and Andrew MacMillen for pioneering the hybrid systems that we are integrating into our GSE.
?
Another notable item, we have confirmed attendance by University of Washington Earth and Space Sciences, and Ingraham High School TARC Teams.? Yes, TEAMS.? The only Three Qualifying Teams headed to the Nationals from the Western United States.? I encourage you to stop by their camp and check out the teams and their rockets.? Top Shelf stuff AND members.? Please consider stuffing their donation box to cover travel expenses to the Nationals.? You might get lucky and get some great baked goods.? Nelle stepped up with her project?of a?Bake Sale Fund Raiser at the Snell Ranch Launch.? Mouth watering?Rocket Cookies !? Stop on by their camp and exchange info or $$ for cooKies.?
?
Dave and I plan to arrive at the launch site on Thursday mid day sometime.? Come on out early to help set up the range or just plain prep rockets to be first in line when the waiver opens on Saturday.
?
See ya all in Mansfield,
?
Dave and Bill
PugetSoundPropulsion.com?
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me

From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org  Wed Apr 29 22:24:07 2009
From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:24:07 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Sunriver to offer AMW products in 2009
Message-ID: <a06240808c61ee4438682@[10.0.1.24]>

Yes,
That's right, finally after many requests, we will be offering AMW 
and ProX products to our customers.

SO what does it mean for the upcoming launches? We will be placing a 
order on this coming Monday, May 4th. IF there is something you are 
interested in, we will order anything, as long as you understand it 
might not make it for the May launches. HOWEVER< we will try!!! 
Motors  pre-ordered will be delivered as soon as possible, and there 
will be a delivery to the Brothers Launch in June.

Pricing can be found on the AMW web page: http://www.amwprox.com/
Please place your orders via email, and payment for pre-orders can be 
made by visa/mc, check or paypal.


IF we can get enough interest, we might be able to offer discounts to 
flyers, but at this time, we need to see a interest. Also, given the 
current state of inventory (Aerotech, LOKI, & CTI), we will not be 
"stocking" a ton of motors. So if you really want something, let us 
know.

For now, LEUP are required for high power motors, IF that should 
change, then we will make a announcement regarding those changes.

This will be new for us, but I wanted to get the word out, so AMW can 
make a return to the Northwest as soon as possible.

O< by the way, we will also take orders for those cool shirts and hardware!

Enjoy,
Bob

Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory

From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net  Thu Apr 30 08:50:42 2009
From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:50:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [RocketsNW] Bill Munds can you contact me off list.
Message-ID: <881275499.3319921241106642044.JavaMail.root@sz0067a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>


-------------- next part --------------


From jhadv at pacifier.com  Thu Apr 30 13:28:08 2009
From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:28:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1241118003.11742.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com>


>"They agreed with me that any appeal would probably be filed at the last 
>moment."


Just for my own edification when is the last moment?  What glorious day in 
May would that be?



From bigredbee at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 13:33:53 2009
From: bigredbee at gmail.com (Greg Clark)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:33:53 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com>
References: <mailman.7.1241118003.11742.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com>
Message-ID: <bf3fe8020904301333n4136991dv3cc057e07a78446a@mail.gmail.com>

May 15th if I'm not mistaken.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Paul Bogdanich <jhadv at pacifier.com> wrote:
>
>>"They agreed with me that any appeal would probably be filed at the last
>>moment."
>
>
> Just for my own edification when is the last moment? ?What glorious day in
> May would that be?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>

From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 18:12:46 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:12:46 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry Meeting Agenda May 7th 2009
Message-ID: <60FB612AE40B4DFFA9E7BD851F40814F@LaptopKrausert>

The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on May 7th 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon. 
Where: Giovanni's [ Map ]
12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton 

Agenda:
7:30 : Motions by members collected
7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @ Wilsonville May & June Announcement [Packard]
7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Show & Fly Event [Ryerse]
7:45 : Highlight of Members / Length of Membership [Krausert]
7:55 : Brother's Launch Announcement (Event, Rules, Showcase, Drawing) [Krausert]
8:05 : Club Business Update 
          - Review of previous month minutes [Goncher]
          - Financial Update [Moscoe]
          - Porta Potty Readiness [Moscoe]
          - Annual 2007 CT-12 Filing [Moscoe]
          - Annual 2008 CT-12 2008 Address Change & Filing  [Moscoe]
          - NAR Section 555 Renewal Status [Moscoe]
          - Brothers FAA Waiver Update [Krausert]
8:15 : Members Show & Tell [Everyone]
          - Bring your project and share it during the meeting.  

I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Should be a good mix of information. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday May 7th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. First public OROC launch at Brothers from the time of the meeting is T-minus 1 week. 

Cheers,
Robert

-------------- next part --------------
The next Oregon Rocketry club meeting will be held at 7:30 pm on May 7th 2009. Meeting place is the back room of Giovanni's in Beaverton, Oregon.
Where: Giovanni's [
Map
]
12390 SW Broadway: corner of Broadway and Hall Blvd in downtown Beaverton
Agenda:
7:30 : Motions by members collected
7:35 : Memorial Park Launch @?Wilsonville May & June Announcement [Packard]
7:40 : Daybreak School in Battleground, Show & Fly Event [Ryerse]
7:45 : Highlight of Members / Length of Membership [Krausert]
7:55 : Brother's Launch Announcement (Event, Rules, Showcase, Drawing) [Krausert]
8:05 : Club Business Update?
????????? - Review of previous month minutes [Goncher]
????????? - Financial Update [Moscoe]
????????? -?Porta Potty?Readiness [Moscoe]
????????? - Annual 2007 CT-12 Filing [Moscoe]
????????? - Annual 2008 CT-12 2008 Address Change & Filing? [Moscoe]
????????? - NAR Section 555 Renewal Status [Moscoe]
????????? - Brothers FAA Waiver Update [Krausert]
8:15 : Members Show & Tell [Everyone]
????????? - Bring your project and share it during the meeting. ?
I certainly hope you can make the meeting. Should be a good mix of information. Take a break from your busy schedule and join us Thursday May 7th at 7:30pm for some fun and rocket talk. Come early for dinner. First public OROC launch at Brothers from the time of the meeting is T-minus?1 week.
Cheers,
Robert

From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com  Thu Apr 30 18:59:45 2009
From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:59:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection
In-Reply-To: <bf3fe8020904301333n4136991dv3cc057e07a78446a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.7.1241118003.11742.rockets@rocketsnw.com>
	<5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com>
	<bf3fe8020904301333n4136991dv3cc057e07a78446a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25b5790998f49c95fec8c4332025d49f.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>

Yup.  I counted the days and marked it on my calendar.  If ATF hasn't
filed an appeal by 5 pm EDT on the 15th, or an extension for an appeal or
whatever other legal trickery that might apply, we all get to do the Happy
Rocket Days Are Here Again dance.

If they do appeal, which I expect, then we get another chance to have
another federal judge club them over the head with their own institutional
stupidity yet again.  (Happened twice so far, so the odds are pretty good
for us.)  Too bad the bigwigs at ATF HQ hadn't taken a cue from the FAA
long ago.

+McG+


> May 15th if I'm not mistaken.
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Paul Bogdanich <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>>"They agreed with me that any appeal would probably be filed at the last
>>>moment."
>>
>>
>> Just for my own edification when is the last moment? ?What glorious day
>> in
>> May would that be?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>



From lawndart.robert at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 20:01:08 2009
From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:01:08 -0700
Subject: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection
References: <mailman.7.1241118003.11742.rockets@rocketsnw.com><5.2.0.9.2.20090430132640.00c27fc8@mail.iinet.com><bf3fe8020904301333n4136991dv3cc057e07a78446a@mail.gmail.com>
	<25b5790998f49c95fec8c4332025d49f.squirrel@www.wa-net.com>
Message-ID: <FEEBE0ABCCCC4818AF43DC47A42DD5BE@LaptopKrausert>

If they choose to appeal the ruling, the law moves into the final ruling 
until they find evidence to reverse.

If they choose to stay the ruling, then all rules today continue until the 
next ruling.

If they choose an extention, the laws may or may not change as part of the 
extention. Likely stay as they are.

I for one believe the last ruling will be it. I do not expect any appeal, 
extention or stay. We are not their fight anymore and the new administration 
has made that clear.

I'm not trying to get hopes up. But in my oppinion, it is over.

Cheers,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com>
To: <rockets at rocketsnw.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] ATF Inspection


Yup.  I counted the days and marked it on my calendar.  If ATF hasn't
filed an appeal by 5 pm EDT on the 15th, or an extension for an appeal or
whatever other legal trickery that might apply, we all get to do the Happy
Rocket Days Are Here Again dance.

If they do appeal, which I expect, then we get another chance to have
another federal judge club them over the head with their own institutional
stupidity yet again.  (Happened twice so far, so the odds are pretty good
for us.)  Too bad the bigwigs at ATF HQ hadn't taken a cue from the FAA
long ago.

+McG+


> May 15th if I'm not mistaken.
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Paul Bogdanich <jhadv at pacifier.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>>"They agreed with me that any appeal would probably be filed at the last
>>>moment."
>>
>>
>> Just for my own edification when is the last moment? What glorious day
>> in
>> May would that be?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rockets mailing list
>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rockets mailing list
> Rockets at rocketsnw.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets
>
>


_______________________________________________
Rockets mailing list
Rockets at rocketsnw.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets