From appusher at q.com Sat Nov 1 18:48:52 2008 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 01:48:52 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging Steve Cutonilli Message-ID: Please contact me off list. thanks, Bill EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me -------------- next part -------------- Please contact me off list. thanks, Bill http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/pr01/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Sun Nov 2 09:07:04 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 09:07:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [OT] Landsharks aren't just in rocketry Message-ID: <490DDE38.2070504@earthlink.net> I didn't know this but SNL did a skit about landsharks. Hilarious! http://video.aol.com/video-detail/saturday-night-live-season-1-land-shark/1415496980 Robert From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Sun Nov 2 23:09:39 2008 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 23:09:39 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG November launch Message-ID: Greetings all, BORG had a pick up launch today, even with the weather being iffy. Actually, not to bad!!! So, here is what happened. I got home late on Saturday night, and didn't get to the breakfast meeting, but got a call on my cell phone in the morning from Rod Moorehead, saying they were heading to Brothers. I called Rod, and he and Chris convinced me to come on out, even with the rain coming down in Sunriver. So, I threw a few rockets into the Jeep and headed out. Got to launch site, with light winds and some of the BORG were out there having some apple pie and flying rockets. So, it was time to fly. First up, my Binder Design Thug up on a G40, great flight with no issues, a short walk. Next, I prepped a Binder Design Iris for a H123, and up it went, with no issues and another short walk. So, most of you that have been around me for many years have seen the Aerotech Psyco Sumo, that has been pretty beat up over the last couple of years. This rocket has about 50 flights and has been rebuilt many times, and it currently has original plastic fins, a 38mm motor tube. I decided a few years ago, to get rid of this rocket with some big motor. SO, after using a large H, then I, which it survived. So, I thought J350 should do it. Today was the day. Chris prepared the motor. As Chris was getting the motor together, I prepped the Iris for a H242 and flew that again. Another good flight, and a short walk. SO it was time for the J350. With a few rain drops around, we put it on the pad, after saying goodbye. As I was thinking it would come apart within the first 1000 feet, it flew fine.......... and the parachute came out and to my amazement, I had to hike to retrieve the rocket and more important, the hardware. I guess it will be around for the 2009 season, maybe a H999 warp motor will do it........ After the long walk, the guys had it all packed up, but the weather was getting better and surprise, no wind! So, I got the PML Io out and stuck a Roadrunner F45, which I used a way to long delay, and got lucky with a late delay. Reminder to self, the F45 is not the same as the F60!!!! So, last flight, was a CTI G79 Smokey Sam. Nice flight with a bit of a walk, but a nice way to end the day as the sun was going down. Six flights, and no loss of rockets, even with trying to destroy one....... Thanks to all for all the BORG in putting the launch together and there was even some talk of flying again in two weeks........... Enjoy, Bob Sunriver Nature Center, BORG, OROC, Blue Mt. Rocketeers From stevet19759 at comcast.net Mon Nov 3 00:06:36 2008 From: stevet19759 at comcast.net (Steve Tarr) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:06:36 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OregonRocketry November Meeting Message-ID: <490EB10C.2020907@comcast.net> It's that time again... OregonRocketry general meeting Thursday, November 6, 7:30 PM at Giovanni's Italian Restaurant in Beaverton. We have a number of things to discuss. There are several proposals concerning membership and club activities submitted by members, and I hope we'll be able to make an announcement about a planned model rocket launch (and a chance at a regular model rocket launch site!) We'll also have launch reports from Rocketober and a model rocket build and fly session in Hood River. I will have copies of the NAR L2 exam for anyone wishing to take that before next season. Please arrive a little early -- 6:45 or so -- if you want to take the exam. -Steve Tarr From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 08:17:20 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 08:17:20 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Euclid Beach Rocket Car Message-ID: <490F2410.208@earthlink.net> I saw this car featured in the Tripolitan years ago and it is still around. I think we need one for the PacNW. http://www.therocketcar.com/ Robert From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 08:36:12 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 08:36:12 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Euclid Beach Rocket Car (more) Message-ID: <490F287C.1090502@earthlink.net> Here is a clip of silent 8mm footage of it when it was used as a ride at the Euclid Beach Park in Cleveland, OH which closed in 1969. You can see it at 0:45 time mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMqF0iA0iMs Here it is as a road-worthy car in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LGBm3xD59E Below is the info from the website about how the car was created and has been used. Could be a great ride for Black Rock. Robert The Rocket Car, was created from an authentic space rocket swinging ride, salvaged from the old "*Euclid Beach Amusement Park*" that existed in the Cleveland area until about 1969. Ron Heitman took a dream and did what he likes best, turned it into a car!! A 1973 Oldsmobile Toronado drive train was used to transform the ROCKET into a legal street vehicle. The original rocket frame was mated to the Toronado sub-frame. The engine is a modified 455 cu.in. Olds with an automatic front wheel drive transaxle. This conversion gives the ROCKET disc brakes, power steering and a torsion bar suspension with Carria coil over-shocks. The steering is coupled together using gears and chain from some heavy equipment. The rear axle is a solid tube axle with coil springs and airbags from the rear of the Toronado. The ROCKET is 28 feet long nose to tail, and covered entirely with polished stainless steel panels. Along with the driver it will seat 10 adults or 15 kids very comfortably. All of the seats are upholstered in heavy red naughahide with seatbelts and automatic lock bars. It has been inspected by the Ohio State Police and is registered and licensed in Ohio as a legal street vehicle. It is highly maneuverable and very smooth riding. It can do 98 MPH in a standing quarter mile in 17.58 seconds and has a confirmed top speed of 136 MPH! The ROCKET is covered with a one million dollar insurance policy and the passengers are also insured. To make life even better, Ron found another one of the old Euclid Beach rockets and created a second ROCKET! The two are almost indistinguishable going down the road. The ROCKETS have been featured in the New York Macy's Thanksgiving Parade for 10 years. It is also seen very often in various Ohio parades and events. It has been used by Goodyear at the Indy 500 Race, Shopping Center openings, Weddings, parties, movies and gatherings were people needed some form of entertainment or transportation. And they play calliope music, similar to that heard at Euclid Beach (if you are old enough to remember). From Mfreptiles at aol.com Mon Nov 3 10:40:47 2008 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:40:47 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] [AD] Free Avionics Bay Kits from Binder Design Message-ID: Binder Design is pleased to announce the return of their holiday special in time for the 2008 holiday season. Buy any of their 3.9" rocket kits that retail for $99.99 or more and receive a free 3.9" avionics bay kit ($34.99 value). Offer is good until 1/1/09. Web site orders only, excludes dealer orders. For full details visit _http://binderdesign.com_ (http://binderdesign.com/) **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) -------------- next part -------------- Binder Design is pleased to announce the return of their holiday special in time for the 2008 holiday season.? Buy any of their 3.9" rocket kits that retail for $99.99 or more and receive a free 3.9" avionics bay kit ($34.99 value).? Offer is good until 1/1/09.? Web site orders only, excludes dealer orders.? For full details visit http://binderdesign.com/ http://binderdesign.com Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001 Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! From foreveryoung at inlandnet.com Mon Nov 3 13:47:46 2008 From: foreveryoung at inlandnet.com (Bryan Young) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:47:46 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Message-ID: <000b01c93dfd$d168b410$743a1c30$@com> My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a parachute protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being charred? -B -------------- next part -------------- My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a parachute protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being charred? -B From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 3 14:15:13 2008 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (steve-c at ix.netcom.com) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 14:15:13 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Message-ID: <23902623.1225750513958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Piston. -----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Young >Sent: Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM >To: NorthWest Rocketry - All >Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > >My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a parachute protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being charred? >-B From greg at bigredbee.com Mon Nov 3 14:32:12 2008 From: greg at bigredbee.com (Greg Clark) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 14:32:12 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <23902623.1225750513958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <23902623.1225750513958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Nomex On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:15 PM, wrote: > Piston. > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Bryan Young > >Sent: Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM > >To: NorthWest Rocketry - All > >Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > >My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a parachute > protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being charred? > >-B > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:15 PM, < mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com steve-c at ix.netcom.com > wrote: Piston. -----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Young < mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com foreveryoung at inlandnet.com > >Sent: Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM >To: NorthWest Rocketry - All < mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > >My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a parachute protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being charred? >-B _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From greg at blastzone.com Mon Nov 3 15:01:57 2008 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 15:01:57 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <23902623.1225750513958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <23902623.1225750513958.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1b3301c93e08$2c629b10$8527d130$@com> --shudder-- -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:15 PM To: Bryan Young; NorthWest Rocketry - All Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Piston. -----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Young >Sent: Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM >To: NorthWest Rocketry - All >Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > >My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a parachute protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being charred? >-B _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 3 17:46:05 2008 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 17:46:05 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c93e1f$1a49c400$c801a8c0@steve> Ummm, "best way to keep the parachute from being charred" - again, the piston represents the most efficient use of recovery space yielding the best protection for the parachute. Nomex stands an okay chance, but it is highly dependant on packing technique and one will typically compromise parachute selection due to the additional bulk needed to wrap the Nomex around the parachute - I will guarantee you a single layer Nomex is not hot particulate BP proof and that's all one can afford to use in a 38mm. Flame me - I can take it (said the piston proponent). /Steve -----Original Message----- From: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:32 PM To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com Cc: Bryan Young; NorthWest Rocketry - All Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Nomex On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:15 PM, wrote: Piston. -----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Young >Sent: Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM >To: NorthWest Rocketry - All >Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > >My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a parachute protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being charred? >-B _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Ummm, ???best way to keep the parachute from being charred??? - again, the piston represents the most efficient use of recovery space yielding the best protection for the parachute. ? Nomex stands an okay chance, but it is highly dependant on packing technique and one will typically compromise parachute selection due to the additional bulk needed to wrap the Nomex around the parachute ??? I will guarantee you a single layer Nomex is not hot particulate BP proof and that???s all one can afford to use in a 38mm. ? Flame me ??? I can take it (said the piston proponent). ? /Steve ? -----Original Message----- From: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:32 PM To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com Cc: Bryan Young; NorthWest Rocketry - All Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options ? Nomex On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:15 PM , < mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com steve-c at ix.netcom.com > wrote: Piston. -----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Young < mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com foreveryoung at inlandnet.com > >Sent: Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM >To: NorthWest Rocketry - All < mailto:rockets at rocketsnw.com rockets at rocketsnw.com > >Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > >My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a parachute protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being charred? >-B _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 3 18:07:32 2008 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 18:07:32 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <000001c93e1f$1a49c400$c801a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <000001c93e22$199d9e20$c801a8c0@steve> Okay...okay...please stop the off-line jabs about pistons - allow me to explain myself... Pistons not in the traditional sense - they should be light weight, easy to construct and need not be viewed as part of a rocket, but a limited use recovery bit requiring periodic replacement - much like the Nomex protector. For 3" and greater diameter rockets, my opinion about pistons aligns with the popular view because they are required to be much more robust and are considered part of the rocket - all the other negatives to parachute wraps don't generally apply at bigger diameters. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:46 PM To: 'Greg Clark' Cc: 'NorthWest Rocketry - All' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Ummm, "best way to keep the parachute from being charred" - again, the piston represents the most efficient use of recovery space yielding the best protection for the parachute. Nomex stands an okay chance, but it is highly dependant on packing technique and one will typically compromise parachute selection due to the additional bulk needed to wrap the Nomex around the parachute - I will guarantee you a single layer Nomex is not hot particulate BP proof and that's all one can afford to use in a 38mm. Flame me - I can take it (said the piston proponent). /Steve -----Original Message----- From: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Greg Clark Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:32 PM To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com Cc: Bryan Young; NorthWest Rocketry - All Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Nomex On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:15 PM, wrote: Piston. -----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Young >Sent: Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM >To: NorthWest Rocketry - All >Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > >My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a parachute protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being charred? >-B _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 19:14:28 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:14:28 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <000001c93e22$199d9e20$c801a8c0@steve> References: <000001c93e22$199d9e20$c801a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <490FBE14.3070801@earthlink.net> Why not an ejection baffle? Robert Steve Cutonilli wrote: > Okay...okay...please stop the off-line jabs about pistons - allow me to > explain myself... > > Pistons not in the traditional sense - they should be light weight, easy > to construct and need not be viewed as part of a rocket, but a limited > use recovery bit requiring periodic replacement - much like the Nomex > protector. > > For 3" and greater diameter rockets, my opinion about pistons aligns > with the popular view because they are required to be much more robust > and are considered part of the rocket - all the other negatives to > parachute wraps don't generally apply at bigger diameters. > > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:46 PM > To: 'Greg Clark' > Cc: 'NorthWest Rocketry - All' > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Ummm, "best way to keep the parachute from being charred" - again, the > piston represents the most efficient use of recovery space yielding the > best protection for the parachute. Nomex stands an okay chance, but it > is highly dependant on packing technique and one will typically > compromise parachute selection due to the additional bulk needed to wrap > the Nomex around the parachute - I will guarantee you a single layer > Nomex is not hot particulate BP proof and that's all one can afford to > use in a 38mm. Flame me - I can take it (said the piston proponent). > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: bigredbee at gmail.com [mailto:bigredbee at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Greg > Clark > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:32 PM > To: steve-c at ix.netcom.com > Cc: Bryan Young; NorthWest Rocketry - All > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Nomex > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:15 PM, wrote: > Piston. > > -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bryan Young >> Sent: Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM >> To: NorthWest Rocketry - All >> Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. Would a >> > parachute protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being > charred? > >> -B >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Mon Nov 3 20:34:37 2008 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 23:34:37 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Message-ID: I think Steve is on to something in certain situations. Taking Steve's advice, I've built a piston for my 38mm all aluminum rocket. The piston is machined aluminum and slides really smoothly within the aluminum airframe and won't bind because the piston skirt is several calibers long and the piston and airframe is the same material. My previous problem was the bulk of the recovery gear wrapped with nomex. Even then, my kevlar harness was exposed to the ejection gasses and would degrade after a few flights. With the piston, there is less bulk to pack, and the harness above the piston stays like new. The kevlar harness section below the piston will degrade, but since it is shorter, less $ to replace. Now if you asked me if I believe in phenolic pistons in cardboard, or plastic airframes........forget it! :) Mike F. **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) -------------- next part -------------- I think Steve is on to something in certain situations.? ? Taking Steve's advice, I've built a piston for my 38mm all aluminum rocket.? The piston is machined aluminum and slides really smoothly within the aluminum airframe and won't bind because the piston skirt is several calibers long and the piston and airframe is the same material.? My previous problem was the bulk of the recovery gear wrapped with nomex.? Even then, my kevlar harness was exposed to the ejection gasses and would degrade after a few flights.? With the piston, there is less bulk to pack, and the harness above the piston stays like new.? The kevlar harness section below the piston will degrade, but since it is shorter, less $ to replace. ? Now if you asked me if I believe in phenolic pistons in cardboard, or plastic airframes........forget it! :) ? Mike F. ? ? Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001 Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! From vonrang at yahoo.com Mon Nov 3 21:36:41 2008 From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:36:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <000b01c93dfd$d168b410$743a1c30$@com> Message-ID: <373267.97048.qm@web52212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I like using a section of ironing board cover (with padding removed) as a parachute shield. This has worked very well in my Cirrus Dart and Binder Design SPIKE rockets. It is low cost and very effective. Sam Grado TRA-L2 "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch!" http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets samgrado at pvconly.com --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Bryan Young wrote: > From: Bryan Young > Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > To: "NorthWest Rocketry - All" > Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:47 PM > My next rocket will weigh about 2 lbs and will be 38mm. > Would a parachute > protector be the best way to keep the parachute from being > charred? > > -B > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From fred.azinger at intel.com Mon Nov 3 22:11:07 2008 From: fred.azinger at intel.com (Azinger, Fred) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:11:07 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <509223F0BF55E74FA1247D17207E7A0C03A81E23@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> Don't forget to "invert" the piston -- skirt forward. Think of an automobile piston on the power stroke....skirt away from the charge... Yes -- when coefficients of expansions are matched, pistons work well. -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:35 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options I think Steve is on to something in certain situations. Taking Steve's advice, I've built a piston for my 38mm all aluminum rocket. The piston is machined aluminum and slides really smoothly within the aluminum airframe and won't bind because the piston skirt is several calibers long and the piston and airframe is the same material. My previous problem was the bulk of the recovery gear wrapped with nomex. Even then, my kevlar harness was exposed to the ejection gasses and would degrade after a few flights. With the piston, there is less bulk to pack, and the harness above the piston stays like new. The kevlar harness section below the piston will degrade, but since it is shorter, less $ to replace. Now if you asked me if I believe in phenolic pistons in cardboard, or plastic airframes........forget it! :) Mike F. **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir =http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) From jhadv at pacifier.com Tue Nov 4 08:55:05 2008 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:55:05 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20081104084317.00c45d50@mail.iinet.com> Finally something I have some experience with. Having burned in a distressingly high proportion of my initial attempts I have learned a few things about pistons as that was the cause of one of the failures. The fist thing I learned is watch out for temperature changes across dissimilar materials. Phenolic pistons in quantum tube for example are a challenge. Either too hot or too cold and you are not safe. Aluminum in quantum seems to work without difficulty at all relevant temperatures as long as you have .0075 <= X <= .01 clearance a side. Aluminum in phenolic needs to have a longish skirt (>= .75 ID) that is slightly tapered with the leading edge relived or chamfered so it doesn't hang on the grooves. As for me I have tired of the whole piston thing and have taken to making parachutes directly from 1.9 oz per yard Kevlar. Just tape the ejection charge to the bottom of the parachute (not literally folks) and fire. From dmrandall at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 18:33:01 2008 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 18:33:01 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20081104084317.00c45d50@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20081104084317.00c45d50@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40811041833o3579ca4w7250a4b85e508a3a@mail.gmail.com> I've had good success with the blue "sparkly" ironing board covers - sparkly side out. I've put them right against the BP charge with no ill effects to the chute. I have not had good success with a patterned, thinner version ironing board cover. It has deflected some BP charges, but had one rocket return with an obvious burn mark across much of the cover. I would wholeheartedly recommend the blue sparkly ironing board covers, and at < $10 per large cover, you have plenty for many rockets. The material is pretty lightweight too. One last reminder from experience, put the BP charge around behind the chute, not between the electronics bay and the chute. Idea being that you want the BP to separate the rocket AND push the chute out from the separation point. (Thanks Brad!) Dave NAR 84939 L3 From appusher at q.com Tue Nov 4 19:25:29 2008 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 03:25:29 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] PSP's requirements for AP purchase? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aaron, and all, It has been explained to us (PSP) from an employee of L&I in the office and their Field Inspector (our local inspector, Geri Woods) that a purchaser's permit would be required to purchase low explosives in the state of Washington. That being said, it depends on who you talk to. Renette, who is now retired, told us purchasers would need a purchaser permit as well. I have yet to talk with Mason Reiter about this but will clarify it with him personally and report back to the list and the Washington State flyers. Prior conversations with folks at L&I could have been directed to a dealers question rather than a customer or end user. Any dealer that is in the business wants to follow appropriate regulations. Those regulations seem to be interpreted by the person answering the question. Everyone has an opinion, and it is always to be taken as an opinion unless the person answering the question can point it out in the Orange Book/ Red Book (Federal /Wa State). If you remember Aaron, at the Oct launch, when you asked the question......I referred you to Mason and told you we were interested in his answer. I will confirm your conversation with Mason after I talk with him this week. It's my contention that if an LEUP with storage or contingent storage by the BATFE is good enough, State should defer to them. Seems some states feel that they need a bit more control over use of anything that is called an explosive. There is a bit of sense to them protecting the public from idiots. Off the Record, L&I isn't real concerned about APCP. On the record they do have some concerns about tracking and use more for safety reasons. As it stands now for us, if you have an LEUP you are good to purchase and use. It's up to you to follow thru with contingent storage if that is the route you go. There are a number of flyers that we service that have contingent storage. I think it might be a possible addition to a club meeting to have Mason Reiter as a Guest Speaker at a club meeting so everyone can be relaxed about what is required and what is not. I'll ask him him if that would be something he would consider when I talk to him. Your mileage may vary,Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:30:00 -0800From: aaronfogg at gmail.comTo: appusher at q.comSubject: PSP's requirements for AP purchase?I spoke to Mason Reiter and asked him about having to have a purchasers license for contingency storage the answer was NO. I am now being told that PSP requires a purchaser license from L&I to purchase motors. Any truth to that or will I be able to fly being only in the possession of a contignet LEUP and with or without my contingent LEUP buddy on site?ThanksAaron Fogg -------------- next part -------------- Aaron, and all, ? It has been explained to us (PSP) from an employee of L&I in the office and their Field Inspector (our local inspector, Geri Woods) that a purchaser's permit would be required to purchase low explosives in the state of Washington.? That being said, it depends on who you talk to.? Renette, who is now retired, told us purchasers would need a purchaser permit as well.? I have yet to talk with Mason Reiter about this but will clarify it with him personally and report back to the list and the Washington State flyers.? ? Prior conversations with folks at L&I could have been directed to a dealers question rather than a customer or end user.? Any dealer that is in the business wants to follow appropriate regulations.? Those regulations seem to be interpreted by the person answering the question.? Everyone has an opinion, and it is always to be taken as an opinion unless the person answering the question can point it out in the Orange Book/ Red Book (Federal /Wa State).? ? If you remember Aaron,?at the Oct launch, when you asked the question......I referred you to Mason and told you we were interested in his answer.? I will confirm your conversation with Mason after I talk with him this week. ? It's my contention that if an LEUP with storage or contingent storage by the BATFE is good enough, State should defer to them.? Seems some states feel that they need a bit more control over use of anything that is called an explosive.? There is a bit of sense to them protecting the public from idiots.? Off the Record, L&I isn't real concerned about APCP.? On the record they do have some concerns about tracking and use more for safety reasons.? ? As it stands now for us, if you have an LEUP you are good to purchase and use.? It's up to you to follow thru with contingent storage if that is the route you go.? There are a number of flyers that we service that have contingent storage. ? I think it might be a possible addition to a club meeting to have Mason Reiter as a Guest Speaker at a club meeting so everyone can be relaxed about what is required and what is not.? I'll ask him him if that would be something he would consider when I talk to him. ? Your mileage may vary, mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:30:00 -0800 From: aaronfogg at gmail.com To: appusher at q.com Subject: PSP's requirements for AP purchase? I spoke to Mason Reiter and asked him about having to have a purchasers license for contingency storage the answer was NO. I am now being told that PSP requires a purchaser license from L&I to purchase motors. Any truth to that or will I be able to fly being only in the possession of a contignet LEUP and with or without my contingent LEUP buddy on site? Thanks Aaron Fogg From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Nov 4 20:55:55 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:55:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] BORG November launch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1107.208.100.241.106.1225860955.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Oh Bob, Bob, you know everyone has at least one old beater rocket that they can't get rid of no matter how hard they try. Got one myself! I use it to locate good rockets I *have* lost. Just put in a 'chute to roughly match descent rates and a motor to roughly match altitude and pop 'er off. When you find the old beater the newer rocket will be close by. And you *will* find the old beater, or else it and the other rocket will find you at the LCO table. It's just one of those spooky paranormal things that happen. Stop wasting motors...some old rockets simply refuse to die! ;-) +McG+ > Greetings all, > > BORG had a pick up launch today, even with the weather being iffy. > Actually, not to bad!!! > > So, here is what happened. I got home late on Saturday night, and > didn't get to the breakfast meeting, but got a call on my cell phone > in the morning from Rod Moorehead, saying they were heading to > Brothers. > I called Rod, and he and Chris convinced me to come on out, even with > the rain coming down in Sunriver. > > > So, I threw a few rockets into the Jeep and headed out. Got to launch > site, with light winds and some of the BORG were out there having > some apple pie and flying rockets. So, it was time to fly. > > First up, my Binder Design Thug up on a G40, great flight with no > issues, a short walk. > > Next, I prepped a Binder Design Iris for a H123, and up it went, with > no issues and another short walk. > > So, most of you that have been around me for many years have seen the > Aerotech Psyco Sumo, that has been pretty beat up over the last > couple of years. This rocket has about 50 flights and has been > rebuilt many times, and it currently has original plastic fins, a > 38mm motor tube. I decided a few years ago, to get rid of this rocket > with some big motor. SO, after using a large H, then I, which it > survived. So, I thought J350 should do it. Today was the day. Chris > prepared the motor. > > As Chris was getting the motor together, I prepped the Iris for a > H242 and flew that again. Another good flight, and a short walk. > > SO it was time for the J350. With a few rain drops around, we put it > on the pad, after saying goodbye. > As I was thinking it would come apart within the first 1000 feet, it > flew fine.......... and the parachute came out and to my amazement, I > had to hike to retrieve the rocket and more important, the hardware. > I guess it will be around for the 2009 season, maybe a H999 warp > motor will do it........ > > After the long walk, the guys had it all packed up, but the weather > was getting better and surprise, no wind! So, I got the PML Io out > and stuck a Roadrunner F45, which I used a way to long delay, and got > lucky with a late delay. Reminder to self, the F45 is not the same as > the F60!!!! > > So, last flight, was a CTI G79 Smokey Sam. Nice flight with a bit of > a walk, but a nice way to end the day as the sun was going down. Six > flights, and no loss of rockets, even with trying to destroy > one....... > > > Thanks to all for all the BORG in putting the launch together and > there was even some talk of flying again in two weeks........... > > Enjoy, > > Bob > Sunriver Nature Center, BORG, OROC, Blue Mt. Rocketeers > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Nov 4 21:09:11 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 21:09:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <509223F0BF55E74FA1247D17207E7A0C03A81E23@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com > References: <509223F0BF55E74FA1247D17207E7A0C03A81E23@orsmsx419.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <1131.208.100.241.106.1225861751.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Yup. And with aluminum parts, don't forget the superlube. +McG+ > Don't forget to "invert" the piston -- skirt forward. > Think of an automobile piston on the power stroke....skirt away from the > charge... > Yes -- when coefficients of expansions are matched, pistons work well. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:35 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > I think Steve is on to something in certain situations. > > Taking Steve's advice, I've built a piston for my 38mm all aluminum > rocket. > The piston is machined aluminum and slides really smoothly within the > aluminum airframe and won't bind because the piston skirt is several > calibers long > and the piston and airframe is the same material. My previous problem > was > the bulk of the recovery gear wrapped with nomex. Even then, my kevlar > harness > was exposed to the ejection gasses and would degrade after a few > flights. > With the piston, there is less bulk to pack, and the harness above the > piston > stays like new. The kevlar harness section below the piston will > degrade, > but since it is shorter, less $ to replace. > > Now if you asked me if I believe in phenolic pistons in cardboard, or > plastic airframes........forget it! :) > > Mike F. > > > **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's > Hot > 5 Travel Deals! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir > =http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 6 05:57:04 2008 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 05:57:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <1131.208.100.241.106.1225861751.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <000401c94017$8d0b4000$c801a8c0@steve> Naa - keep the skirt non-inverted that way the piston ID takes the BP hit thus leaving the airframe contact surface clean for more reliable function. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:09 PM To: Azinger, Fred Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yup. And with aluminum parts, don't forget the superlube. +McG+ > Don't forget to "invert" the piston -- skirt forward. > Think of an automobile piston on the power stroke....skirt away from the > charge... > Yes -- when coefficients of expansions are matched, pistons work well. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:35 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > I think Steve is on to something in certain situations. > > Taking Steve's advice, I've built a piston for my 38mm all aluminum > rocket. > The piston is machined aluminum and slides really smoothly within the > aluminum airframe and won't bind because the piston skirt is several > calibers long > and the piston and airframe is the same material. My previous problem > was > the bulk of the recovery gear wrapped with nomex. Even then, my kevlar > harness > was exposed to the ejection gasses and would degrade after a few > flights. > With the piston, there is less bulk to pack, and the harness above the > piston > stays like new. The kevlar harness section below the piston will > degrade, > but since it is shorter, less $ to replace. > > Now if you asked me if I believe in phenolic pistons in cardboard, or > plastic airframes........forget it! :) > > Mike F. > > > **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's > Hot > 5 Travel Deals! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir > =http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From Mfreptiles at aol.com Thu Nov 6 09:49:40 2008 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:49:40 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] [AD] Propellant Mixer for Sale Message-ID: I have a Reynolds 12 qt. mixer complete with all attachments and a good bowl. The perfect size for those researchers who have out grown their 5 qt. Kitchen-aid, but don't want to go to a big heavy 20 qt. Plus the price is right, $250 which is less than a new Kitchen-aid 5 qt which now comes with the cheezy tilt head. Local pick up only. Cash, Visa, Mastercard gladly accepted. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) -------------- next part -------------- ? I have a Reynolds 12 qt. mixer complete with all attachments and a good bowl.? The perfect size for those researchers who have out grown their 5 qt. Kitchen-aid, but don't want to go to a big heavy 20 qt. ? Plus the price is right, $250 which is less than a new Kitchen-aid 5 qt which now comes with the cheezy tilt head. ? Local pick up only.? Cash, Visa, Mastercard gladly accepted. ? Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001 Search Now . From carl20320 at msn.com Thu Nov 6 09:51:19 2008 From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:51:19 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] PSP's requirements for AP purchase? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All of my conversations with them, Renette when she was still there, and Mason have indicated that you only need a purchasers license if you are storing motors. I am still trying to get my storage and purchasers license from them for my magazine. Application has been in for 6 weeks now with no word. Time to pick up the phone and call. It will be interesting to see how that goes or if they are putting everything off until after the new year with higher fees even though I was told to hurry and get my application in to avoid those higher fees. Carl > From: appusher at q.com> To: aaronfogg at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 03:25:29 +0000> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] PSP's requirements for AP purchase?> > > Aaron, and all, It has been explained to us (PSP) from an employee of L&I in the office and their Field Inspector (our local inspector, Geri Woods) that a purchaser's permit would be required to purchase low explosives in the state of Washington. That being said, it depends on who you talk to. Renette, who is now retired, told us purchasers would need a purchaser permit as well. I have yet to talk with Mason Reiter about this but will clarify it with him personally and report back to the list and the Washington State flyers. Prior conversations with folks at L&I could have been directed to a dealers question rather than a customer or end user. Any dealer that is in the business wants to follow appropriate regulations. Those regulations seem to be interpreted by the person answering the question. Everyone has an opinion, and it is always to be taken as an opinion unless the person answering the question can point it out in the Orange Book/ Red Book (Federal /Wa State). If you remember Aaron, at the Oct launch, when you asked the question......I referred you to Mason and told you we were interested in his answer. I will confirm your conversation with Mason after I talk with him this week. It's my contention that if an LEUP with storage or contingent storage by the BATFE is good enough, State should defer to them. Seems some states feel that they need a bit more control over use of anything that is called an explosive. There is a bit of sense to them protecting the public from idiots. Off the Record, L&I isn't real concerned about APCP. On the record they do have some concerns about tracking and use more for safety reasons. As it stands now for us, if you have an LEUP you are good to purchase and use. It's up to you to follow thru with contingent storage if that is the route you go. There are a number of flyers that we service that have contingent storage. I think it might be a possible addition to a club meeting to have Mason Reiter as a Guest Speaker at a club meeting so everyone can be relaxed about what is required and what is not. I'll ask him him if that would be something he would consider when I talk to him. Your mileage may vary,Bill at PSP> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:30:00 -0800From: aaronfogg at gmail.comTo: appusher at q.comSubject: PSP's requirements for AP purchase?I spoke to Mason Reiter and asked him about having to have a purchasers license for contingency storage the answer was NO. I am now being told that PSP requires a purchaser license from L&I to purchase motors. Any truth to that or will I be able to fly being only in the possession of a contignet LEUP and with or without my contingent LEUP buddy on site?ThanksAaron Fogg -------------- next part -------------- All of my conversations with them, Renette when she was still there, and Mason have indicated that you only need a purchasers license if you are storing motors.? I am still trying to get my storage and purchasers?license from them for my magazine.? Application has been in for 6 weeks now with no word.? Time to pick up the phone and call.? It will be interesting to see how that goes or if they are putting everything off until after the new year with higher fees even though I was told to hurry and get my application in to avoid those higher fees. ? Carl > From: appusher at q.com > To: aaronfogg at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 03:25:29 +0000 > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] PSP's requirements for AP purchase? > > > Aaron, and all, It has been explained to us (PSP) from an employee of L&I in the office and their Field Inspector (our local inspector, Geri Woods) that a purchaser's permit would be required to purchase low explosives in the state of Washington. That being said, it depends on who you talk to. Renette, who is now retired, told us purchasers would need a purchaser permit as well. I have yet to talk with Mason Reiter about this but will clarify it with him personally and report back to the list and the Washington State flyers. Prior conversations with folks at L&I could have been directed to a dealers question rather than a customer or end user. Any dealer that is in the business wants to follow appropriate regulations. Those regulations seem to be interpreted by the person answering the question. Everyone has an opinion, and it is always to be taken as an opinion unless the person answering the question can point it out in the Orange Book/ Red Book (Federal /Wa State). If you remember Aaron, at the Oct launch, when you asked the question......I referred you to Mason and told you we were interested in his answer. I will confirm your conversation with Mason after I talk with him this week. It's my contention that if an LEUP with storage or contingent storage by the BATFE is good enough, State should defer to them. Seems some states feel that they need a bit more control over use of anything that is called an explosive. There is a bit of sense to them protecting the public from idiots. Off the Record, L&I isn't real concerned about APCP. On the record they do have some concerns about tracking and use more for safety reasons. As it stands now for us, if you have an LEUP you are good to purchase and use. It's up to you to follow thru with contingent storage if that is the route you go. There are a number of flyers that we service that have contingent storage. I think it might be a possible addition to a club meeting to have Mason Reiter as a Guest Speaker at a club meeting so everyone can be relaxed about what is required and what is not. I'll ask him him if that would be something he would consider when I talk to him. Your mileage may vary,Bill at PSP > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:30:00 -0800From: aaronfogg at gmail.comTo: appusher at q.comSubject: PSP's requirements for AP purchase?I spoke to Mason Reiter and asked him about having to have a purchasers license for contingency storage the answer was NO. I am now being told that PSP requires a purchaser license from L&I to purchase motors. Any truth to that or will I be able to fly being only in the possession of a contignet LEUP and with or without my contingent LEUP buddy on site?ThanksAaron Fogg From jhornsby3 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 6 11:54:12 2008 From: jhornsby3 at yahoo.com (John Hornsby) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:54:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerosleeve Message-ID: <377575.6773.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Does anyone know of a source for the glass sleeve? I have looked around and have not found a source for it. Any help for some would be appreciated. ? John Hornsby -------------- next part -------------- Does anyone know of a source for the glass sleeve? I have looked around and have not found a source for it. Any help for some would be appreciated. ? John Hornsby From carl at mousetrap.com Thu Nov 6 12:18:24 2008 From: carl at mousetrap.com (Carl Hamilton) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:18:24 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerosleeve In-Reply-To: <377575.6773.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <377575.6773.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.solarcomposites.com/ On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:54 AM, John Hornsby wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for the glass sleeve? I have looked around and > have not found a source for it. Any help for some would be appreciated. > > John Hornsby > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -------------- next part -------------- http://www.solarcomposites.com/ On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:54 AM, John Hornsby < mailto:jhornsby3 at yahoo.com jhornsby3 at yahoo.com > wrote: Does anyone know of a source for the glass sleeve? I have looked around and have not found a source for it. Any help for some would be appreciated. ? John Hornsby _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list mailto:Rockets at rocketsnw.com Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Thu Nov 6 12:26:36 2008 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:26:36 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Aerosleeve References: <377575.6773.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7476B85ABB5740C187C334E50BBCA39B@AndrewM> This is the mfg that Aerosleeves bought from. http://www.braider.com/index_lo.html Their braid calculator is especially useful. Andrew. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Hamilton" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Aerosleeve > http://www.solarcomposites.com/ > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:54 AM, John Hornsby > wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a source for the glass sleeve? I have looked >> around and >> have not found a source for it. Any help for some would be >> appreciated. >> >> John Hornsby From absworld at cet.com Thu Nov 6 12:26:49 2008 From: absworld at cet.com (Bob and Ann Yanecek) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:26:49 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] PSP's requirements for AP purchase? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008601c9404e$003acc90$00b065b0$@com> I believe Jennifer Hall is Renette's replacement. I talked to Jennifer and confirmed that what I have (LEUP + storage) is a purchasers license. Even though my license isn't scheduled to expire until February, I was allowed to re-up at the current lower fee schedule. Not sure if I'll 'loose' a couple months or if February will remain as my roll over date. Bob Yanecek -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Degner Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:51 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] PSP's requirements for AP purchase? All of my conversations with them, Renette when she was still there, and Mason have indicated that you only need a purchasers license if you are storing motors. I am still trying to get my storage and purchasers license from them for my magazine. Application has been in for 6 weeks now with no word. Time to pick up the phone and call. It will be interesting to see how that goes or if they are putting everything off until after the new year with higher fees even though I was told to hurry and get my application in to avoid those higher fees. Carl > From: appusher at q.com> To: aaronfogg at gmail.com; rockets at rocketsnw.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 03:25:29 +0000> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] PSP's requirements for AP purchase?> > > Aaron, and all, It has been explained to us (PSP) from an employee of L&I in the office and their Field Inspector (our local inspector, Geri Woods) that a purchaser's permit would be required to purchase low explosives in the state of Washington. That being said, it depends on who you talk to. Renette, who is now retired, told us purchasers would need a purchaser permit as well. I have yet to talk with Mason Reiter about this but will clarify it with him personally and report back to the list and the Washington State flyers. Prior conversations with folks at L&I could have been directed to a dealers question rather than a customer or end user. Any dealer that is in the business wants to follow appropriate regulations. Those regulations seem to be interpreted by the person answering the question. Everyone has an opinion, and it is always to be taken as an opinion unless the person answering the question can point it out in the Orange Book/ Red Book (Federal /Wa State). If you remember Aaron, at the Oct launch, when you asked the question......I referred you to Mason and told you we were interested in his answer. I will confirm your conversation with Mason after I talk with him this week. It's my contention that if an LEUP with storage or contingent storage by the BATFE is good enough, State should defer to them. Seems some states feel that they need a bit more control over use of anything that is called an explosive. There is a bit of sense to them protecting the public from idiots. Off the Record, L&I isn't real concerned about APCP. On the record they do have some concerns about tracking and use more for safety reasons. As it stands now for us, if you have an LEUP you are good to purchase and use. It's up to you to follow thru with contingent storage if that is the route you go. There are a number of flyers that we service that have contingent storage. I think it might be a possible addition to a club meeting to have Mason Reiter as a Guest Speaker at a club meeting so everyone can be relaxed about what is required and what is not. I'll ask him him if that would be something he would consider when I talk to him. Your mileage may vary,Bill at PSP> > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:30:00 -0800From: aaronfogg at gmail.comTo: appusher at q.comSubject: PSP's requirements for AP purchase?I spoke to Mason Reiter and asked him about having to have a purchasers license for contingency storage the answer was NO. I am now being told that PSP requires a purchaser license from L&I to purchase motors. Any truth to that or will I be able to fly being only in the possession of a contignet LEUP and with or without my contingent LEUP buddy on site?ThanksAaron Fogg -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1764 - Release Date: 11/3/2008 7:46 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1764 - Release Date: 11/3/2008 7:46 AM From mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net Fri Nov 7 08:37:49 2008 From: mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net (mikeandkimwyvel at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:37:49 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] WAC Meeting moved to November 15th Message-ID: <110720081637.28663.49146EDD00086C4100006FF72206999735040A9097990307050B020E0A050703@comcast.net> Hello everyone. Due to a number of factors the WAC club meeting/GSE cleaning has been postponed to Saturday November 15th. I'll send out the agenda and location next week. Mike -------------- next part -------------- Hello everyone.? Due to a number of factors the WAC club meeting/GSE cleaning has been postponed to Saturday November 15th.? I'll send out the agenda and location next week. ? Mike From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Nov 7 16:19:16 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:19:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <000401c94017$8d0b4000$c801a8c0@steve> References: <1131.208.100.241.106.1225861751.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> <000401c94017$8d0b4000$c801a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <1120.208.100.240.187.1226103556.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Is there any law that says you can't put the piston skirt on both sides? +McG+ > Naa - keep the skirt non-inverted that way the piston ID takes the BP > hit thus leaving the airframe contact surface clean for more reliable > function. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:09 PM > To: Azinger, Fred > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yup. And with aluminum parts, don't forget the superlube. > +McG+ > > >> Don't forget to "invert" the piston -- skirt forward. >> Think of an automobile piston on the power stroke....skirt away from > the >> charge... >> Yes -- when coefficients of expansions are matched, pistons work well. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:35 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> I think Steve is on to something in certain situations. >> >> Taking Steve's advice, I've built a piston for my 38mm all aluminum >> rocket. >> The piston is machined aluminum and slides really smoothly within the >> aluminum airframe and won't bind because the piston skirt is several >> calibers long >> and the piston and airframe is the same material. My previous > problem >> was >> the bulk of the recovery gear wrapped with nomex. Even then, my > kevlar >> harness >> was exposed to the ejection gasses and would degrade after a few >> flights. >> With the piston, there is less bulk to pack, and the harness above > the >> piston >> stays like new. The kevlar harness section below the piston will >> degrade, >> but since it is shorter, less $ to replace. >> >> Now if you asked me if I believe in phenolic pistons in cardboard, or >> plastic airframes........forget it! :) >> >> Mike F. >> >> >> **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out > Today's >> Hot >> 5 Travel Deals! >> > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir >> =http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 7 16:26:42 2008 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:26:42 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos Message-ID: <000501c94138$acbab120$c801a8c0@steve> Some very cool Kodak moments. http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.2.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.3.htm .sorry for the wasted bandwidth if I'm behind the times. /Steve -------------- next part -------------- Some very cool Kodak moments??? ? http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.htm ? http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.2.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.2.htm ? http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.3.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.3.htm ? ???sorry for the wasted bandwidth if I???m behind the times. ? /Steve ? ? ? From robert.krausert at intel.com Fri Nov 7 16:29:04 2008 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:29:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <1120.208.100.240.187.1226103556.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> References: <1131.208.100.241.106.1225861751.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> <000401c94017$8d0b4000$c801a8c0@steve> <1120.208.100.240.187.1226103556.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E1B5854FF@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> An inverted skirt? Hmm. Both ways? Hmm... Guess it all comes down to the level of intoxication to determine the direction of the skirt. Sorry. I know!!! Bad Robert! Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:19 PM To: Steve Cutonilli Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Is there any law that says you can't put the piston skirt on both sides? +McG+ > Naa - keep the skirt non-inverted that way the piston ID takes the BP > hit thus leaving the airframe contact surface clean for more reliable > function. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:09 PM > To: Azinger, Fred > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yup. And with aluminum parts, don't forget the superlube. > +McG+ > > >> Don't forget to "invert" the piston -- skirt forward. >> Think of an automobile piston on the power stroke....skirt away from > the >> charge... >> Yes -- when coefficients of expansions are matched, pistons work well. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:35 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> I think Steve is on to something in certain situations. >> >> Taking Steve's advice, I've built a piston for my 38mm all aluminum >> rocket. >> The piston is machined aluminum and slides really smoothly within the >> aluminum airframe and won't bind because the piston skirt is several >> calibers long >> and the piston and airframe is the same material. My previous > problem >> was >> the bulk of the recovery gear wrapped with nomex. Even then, my > kevlar >> harness >> was exposed to the ejection gasses and would degrade after a few >> flights. >> With the piston, there is less bulk to pack, and the harness above > the >> piston >> stays like new. The kevlar harness section below the piston will >> degrade, >> but since it is shorter, less $ to replace. >> >> Now if you asked me if I believe in phenolic pistons in cardboard, or >> plastic airframes........forget it! :) >> >> Mike F. >> >> >> **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out > Today's >> Hot >> 5 Travel Deals! >> > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir >> =http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 7 16:58:03 2008 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:58:03 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <1120.208.100.240.187.1226103556.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <000001c9413d$0e26e3d0$c801a8c0@steve> Yeah, I suppose dual skirt pistons will work, but the via for the Kevlar lanyard is supposed to exit the piston face and it's unnecessary bulk to deal with if you have to reach even further to the skirt mouth for the attachment loop. The piston lanyard I use on 38/54mm is 1/4-inch tubular Kevlar - it can get torched hundred's of times w/o concern for fatigue / failure. The ends are looped (thus the bulk concerns above). Loops aren't sewn, but rather wrapped at their junction with Kevlar thread which further contributes to compact packing. Think of a hangman's noose - where the coil thread wrap is then soaked with a thin laminating epoxy - it's exceedingly strong. Yeah, I know - different strokes... /Steve -----Original Message----- From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:19 PM To: Steve Cutonilli Cc: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; 'Azinger, Fred'; rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Is there any law that says you can't put the piston skirt on both sides? +McG+ > Naa - keep the skirt non-inverted that way the piston ID takes the BP > hit thus leaving the airframe contact surface clean for more reliable > function. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:09 PM > To: Azinger, Fred > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yup. And with aluminum parts, don't forget the superlube. > +McG+ > > >> Don't forget to "invert" the piston -- skirt forward. >> Think of an automobile piston on the power stroke....skirt away from > the >> charge... >> Yes -- when coefficients of expansions are matched, pistons work well. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:35 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> I think Steve is on to something in certain situations. >> >> Taking Steve's advice, I've built a piston for my 38mm all aluminum >> rocket. >> The piston is machined aluminum and slides really smoothly within the >> aluminum airframe and won't bind because the piston skirt is several >> calibers long >> and the piston and airframe is the same material. My previous > problem >> was >> the bulk of the recovery gear wrapped with nomex. Even then, my > kevlar >> harness >> was exposed to the ejection gasses and would degrade after a few >> flights. >> With the piston, there is less bulk to pack, and the harness above > the >> piston >> stays like new. The kevlar harness section below the piston will >> degrade, >> but since it is shorter, less $ to replace. >> >> Now if you asked me if I believe in phenolic pistons in cardboard, or >> plastic airframes........forget it! :) >> >> Mike F. >> >> >> **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out > Today's >> Hot >> 5 Travel Deals! >> > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir >> =http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From bigrockets at verizon.net Fri Nov 7 18:44:39 2008 From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:44:39 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos In-Reply-To: <000501c94138$acbab120$c801a8c0@steve> References: <000501c94138$acbab120$c801a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <003801c9414b$f2c32e00$d8498a00$@net> No wasted bandwidth as far as I'm concerned. Way cool pictures, thank you. Brings back some memories of my days in the military. I got to work on XMIM 23A Hawks, watched Nike Hercs and Hawks go up in a tactical situation up close and personal. Worked on 20mm Vulcan gun systems, and shoot the damn things too. Where can you get an experience like that? Dave Proffitt -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:27 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos Some very cool Kodak moments. http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.2.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.3.htm .sorry for the wasted bandwidth if I'm behind the times. /Steve From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 7 19:13:34 2008 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:13:34 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos In-Reply-To: <003801c9414b$f2c32e00$d8498a00$@net> Message-ID: <000501c9414f$fcc1a220$c801a8c0@steve> The stop-action photography is stunning and really exemplifies the brute force behind such projectile motion - glad you enjoyed it Dave! -----Original Message----- From: Dave Proffitt [mailto:bigrockets at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 6:45 PM To: 'Steve Cutonilli' Cc: OROC List Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos No wasted bandwidth as far as I'm concerned. Way cool pictures, thank you. Brings back some memories of my days in the military. I got to work on XMIM 23A Hawks, watched Nike Hercs and Hawks go up in a tactical situation up close and personal. Worked on 20mm Vulcan gun systems, and shoot the damn things too. Where can you get an experience like that? Dave Proffitt -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:27 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos Some very cool Kodak moments. http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.2.htm http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.3.htm .sorry for the wasted bandwidth if I'm behind the times. /Steve From sb at berfield.com Sat Nov 8 11:45:14 2008 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 11:45:14 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos In-Reply-To: <003801c9414b$f2c32e00$d8498a00$@net> References: <000501c94138$acbab120$c801a8c0@steve> <003801c9414b$f2c32e00$d8498a00$@net> Message-ID: <2FBB1510-A4A4-4759-B144-BA967324AB7C@berfield.com> I guess the coolness factor probably depends on which end of the system you are on! Sent from my iPod On Nov 7, 2008, at 6:44 PM, "Dave Proffitt" wrote: > No wasted bandwidth as far as I'm concerned. Way cool pictures, > thank you. > Brings back some memories of my days in the military. I got to work > on XMIM > 23A Hawks, watched Nike Hercs and Hawks go up in a tactical > situation up > close and personal. Worked on 20mm Vulcan gun systems, and shoot the > damn > things too. Where can you get an experience like that? > > Dave Proffitt > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > ] > On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:27 PM > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos > > Some very cool Kodak moments. > > http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.htm > > http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.2.htm > > http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.3.htm > > .sorry for the wasted bandwidth if I'm behind the times. > > /Steve > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From jhadv at pacifier.com Sat Nov 8 12:02:21 2008 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 12:02:21 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20081108120125.00c4ee00@mail.iinet.com> And it only costs a Trillion dollars a year. From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 13:00:05 2008 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 13:00:05 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos References: <000501c94138$acbab120$c801a8c0@steve><003801c9414b$f2c32e00$d8498a00$@net> <2FBB1510-A4A4-4759-B144-BA967324AB7C@berfield.com> Message-ID: <000601c941e4$fbbf7fb0$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> Have you watched the Thunderstruck video on YouTube? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f1cwycSWq0 Based on the comment in this thread regarding "depends on which end you're on." There is one scene of three Apatche's loaded with hell-fire missiles making a turn and then heading toward the camera. Would not wish to be on the receving end. "I AM FRIEND." Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" To: "Dave Proffitt" Cc: "OROC List" Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos >I guess the coolness factor probably depends on which end of the > system you are on! > > Sent from my iPod > > On Nov 7, 2008, at 6:44 PM, "Dave Proffitt" > wrote: > >> No wasted bandwidth as far as I'm concerned. Way cool pictures, >> thank you. >> Brings back some memories of my days in the military. I got to work >> on XMIM >> 23A Hawks, watched Nike Hercs and Hawks go up in a tactical >> situation up >> close and personal. Worked on 20mm Vulcan gun systems, and shoot the >> damn >> things too. Where can you get an experience like that? >> >> Dave Proffitt >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> ] >> On Behalf Of Steve Cutonilli >> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:27 PM >> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos >> >> Some very cool Kodak moments. >> >> http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.htm >> >> http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.2.htm >> >> http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/cool.pics.military.3.htm >> >> .sorry for the wasted bandwidth if I'm behind the times. >> >> /Steve >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From airdale at pwimail.net Sat Nov 8 19:41:09 2008 From: airdale at pwimail.net (airdale at pwimail.net) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 19:41:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] OT - Cool Military Photos In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20081108120125.00c4ee00@mail.iinet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20081108120125.00c4ee00@mail.iinet.com> Message-ID: <41530.66.225.27.2.1226202069.squirrel@webmail.pwimail.net> In my humble opinion a Small Price for the Freedoms we all enjoy for living in the USA. (Been There & Done That)and paid the PRICE! Cheers David > And it only costs a Trillion dollars a year. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun Nov 9 02:49:36 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 02:49:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <000001c9413d$0e26e3d0$c801a8c0@steve> References: <1120.208.100.240.187.1226103556.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> <000001c9413d$0e26e3d0$c801a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <1097.208.100.241.184.1226227776.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> I've never spent the requisite long hours over cups of coffee mulling every little detail to be knowledgeable about pistons. I only used a piston in one rocket, my L1 1/4 PML Patriot. It makes sense to have a rear skirt to catch a lot of the BP crud. It makes sense to cup the parachute in a forward skirt. (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston and body tube.) I dunno. I'm of the school of thought that pistons are best used in larger diameter rockets that don't see many flights and which can be thoroughly cleaned between each flight. I'm not flying those unless I trip over a gold nugget big enough to give me a hernia lugging it home... +McG+ > Yeah, I suppose dual skirt pistons will work, but the via for the Kevlar > lanyard is supposed to exit the piston face and it's unnecessary bulk to > deal with if you have to reach even further to the skirt mouth for the > attachment loop. > > The piston lanyard I use on 38/54mm is 1/4-inch tubular Kevlar - it can > get torched hundred's of times w/o concern for fatigue / failure. The > ends are looped (thus the bulk concerns above). Loops aren't sewn, but > rather wrapped at their junction with Kevlar thread which further > contributes to compact packing. Think of a hangman's noose - where the > coil thread wrap is then soaked with a thin laminating epoxy - it's > exceedingly strong. > > Yeah, I know - different strokes... > > /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com [mailto:kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com] > > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:19 PM > To: Steve Cutonilli > Cc: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; 'Azinger, Fred'; rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Is there any law that says you can't put the piston skirt on both sides? > +McG+ > > >> Naa - keep the skirt non-inverted that way the piston ID takes the BP >> hit thus leaving the airframe contact surface clean for more reliable >> function. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:09 PM >> To: Azinger, Fred >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> Yup. And with aluminum parts, don't forget the superlube. >> +McG+ >> >> >>> Don't forget to "invert" the piston -- skirt forward. >>> Think of an automobile piston on the power stroke....skirt away from >> the >>> charge... >>> Yes -- when coefficients of expansions are matched, pistons work > well. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of > Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:35 PM >>> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> I think Steve is on to something in certain situations. >>> >>> Taking Steve's advice, I've built a piston for my 38mm all aluminum >>> rocket. >>> The piston is machined aluminum and slides really smoothly within > the >>> aluminum airframe and won't bind because the piston skirt is several >>> calibers long >>> and the piston and airframe is the same material. My previous >> problem >>> was >>> the bulk of the recovery gear wrapped with nomex. Even then, my >> kevlar >>> harness >>> was exposed to the ejection gasses and would degrade after a few >>> flights. >>> With the piston, there is less bulk to pack, and the harness above >> the >>> piston >>> stays like new. The kevlar harness section below the piston will >>> degrade, >>> but since it is shorter, less $ to replace. >>> >>> Now if you asked me if I believe in phenolic pistons in cardboard, or >>> plastic airframes........forget it! :) >>> >>> Mike F. >>> >>> >>> **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out >> Today's >>> Hot >>> 5 Travel Deals! >>> >> > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir >>> =http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > > > From Mfreptiles at aol.com Sun Nov 9 08:44:46 2008 From: Mfreptiles at aol.com (Mfreptiles at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:44:46 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Message-ID: In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston and body tube.) I dunno. It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can happen since tolerances are usually greater. Mike F. **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) -------------- next part -------------- In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston and body tube.)? I dunno. ? It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston skirt.? The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can happen since tolerances are usually greater. ? Mike F. AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001 Search Now . From rockets at penian.com Mon Nov 10 07:19:16 2008 From: rockets at penian.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Paul=20Nelson?=) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:19:16 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] =?iso-8859-1?q?O=2ET=2E_Crazy_model_making?= Message-ID: <20081110151916.9622.qmail@server298.com> Think you scale Honest John or AMRAAM is pretty cool? Well here is some seriously anal retentive model making. A running 1/6 scale V8 motor. I think his next project should be an scale, operating Saturn V F-1 engine. http://www.moyermade.com/chevyV8.html Paul Nelson The opinions expressed in this email do not necessarily represent the views of any individual. ? Please discontinue reading this email if you experience hallucinations or incontinence. ? Any resemblance to a real email, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ? This email not tested with live animals. ? This email was created by a trained professional, using a highly modified computer; do not attempt to recreate it. ? This email uses only recycled electrons. ? Do not use alcohol in excess while reading this email. ? Some settling of email contents may occur during transmission. Do not read this email while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. ? Recipients are responsible for any local email taxes. ? This email subject to change without notice. ? Do not take this email internally. ? Check label for instructions on how to care for this email. ? Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect or error in this email. ? Please wear safety glasses while reading this email ? This email will not prevent spread of STDs. ? Please store this email in a cool, dry server. ? Email author does not carry cash. ? This email should not be read by women who are pregnant or may become pregnant. ? Your reading time may vary. ? Please note where the nearest exits from this email are located. ? Keep this email out of reach of children. ?Your chance of winning depends on the number of emails received. ? This email was processed on a computer that has also processed peanuts and shellfish. ? Only a doctor can tell if this email is right for you. From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Nov 11 02:18:36 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:18:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1084.208.100.241.145.1226398716.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't > bind between the piston and body tube.)? I dunno. > ? > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt.? The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can happen > since tolerances are usually greater. > ? > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday > needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Tue Nov 11 02:29:33 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:29:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] O.T. Crazy model making In-Reply-To: <20081110151916.9622.qmail@server298.com> References: <20081110151916.9622.qmail@server298.com> Message-ID: <1217.208.100.241.145.1226399373.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Oh man, and when I was a kid I botched assembling the plastic "visible V8" kit. And probably would again if I tried... I'll stick to rockets. They're easier than car motors! +McG+ > Think you scale Honest John or AMRAAM is pretty cool? Well here is some > seriously anal retentive model making. A running 1/6 scale V8 motor. I > think his next project should be an scale, operating Saturn V F-1 engine. > > http://www.moyermade.com/chevyV8.html > > > > Paul Nelson > > The opinions expressed in this email do not necessarily represent the > views of any individual. ? Please discontinue reading this email if you > experience hallucinations or incontinence. ? Any resemblance to a real > email, living or dead, is purely coincidental. ? This email not tested > with live animals. ? This email was created by a trained professional, > using a highly modified computer; do not attempt to recreate it. ? This > email uses only recycled electrons. ? Do not use alcohol in excess while > reading this email. ? Some settling of email contents may occur during > transmission. Do not read this email while operating a motor vehicle or > heavy equipment. ? Recipients are responsible for any local email taxes. ? > This email subject to change without notice. ? Do not take this email > internally. ? Check label for instructions on how to care for this email. > ? Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential > damages resulting from any defect or error in this email. ? Please wear > safety glasses while reading this email ? This email will not prevent > spread of STDs. ? Please store this email in a cool, dry server. ? Email > author does not carry cash. ? This email should not be read by women who > are pregnant or may become pregnant. ? Your reading time may vary. ? > Please note where the nearest exits from this email are located. ? Keep > this email out of reach of children. ?Your chance of winning depends on > the number of emails received. ? This email was processed on a computer > that has also processed peanuts and shellfish. ? Only a doctor can tell if > this email is right for you. > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From foreveryoung at inlandnet.com Tue Nov 11 11:26:27 2008 From: foreveryoung at inlandnet.com (Bryan Young) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:26:27 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <1084.208.100.241.145.1226398716.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> References: <1084.208.100.241.145.1226398716.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <001401c94433$64f92440$2eeb6cc0$@com> It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't > bind between the piston and body tube.)? I dunno. > ? > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt.? The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can happen > since tolerances are usually greater. > ? > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday > needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Tue Nov 11 11:33:43 2008 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:33:43 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <001401c94433$64f92440$2eeb6cc0$@com> References: <1084.208.100.241.145.1226398716.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> <001401c94433$64f92440$2eeb6cc0$@com> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121729@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.)? I dunno. > ? > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt.? The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > ? > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From donbrendarott at msn.com Tue Nov 11 18:59:36 2008 From: donbrendarott at msn.com (Donald and Brenda Harris) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:59:36 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy Veterans Day Message-ID: I forgot to send this out this morning! To all veterans of pass wars, and to those who are out there fighting right now, HAPPY VETERANS DAY !! I kinda miss the boom(s) myself... Don -------------- next part -------------- I forgot to send this out this morning! To all veterans of pass wars, and to those who are out there fighting right now, HAPPY VETERANS DAY !! ? I kinda miss the boom(s) myself... ? ? Don ? ? From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Tue Nov 11 19:32:47 2008 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:32:47 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy Veterans Day In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don, Thanks for the reminder,,,,,,,,,, To all Veterans, THANKS SO MUCH for all you have done. It is because of you, we get to enjoy our hobby, and freedom at home. I can never thank those in the armed forces enough. Peace and my best. Bob Grossfeld Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory From sb at berfield.com Tue Nov 11 19:43:04 2008 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:43:04 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy Veterans Day Message-ID: Amen. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grossfeld [mailto:rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 07:32 PM To: 'rockets northwest' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy Veterans Day Don, Thanks for the reminder,,,,,,,,,, To all Veterans, THANKS SO MUCH for all you have done. It is because of you, we get to enjoy our hobby, and freedom at home. I can never thank those in the armed forces enough. Peace and my best. Bob Grossfeld Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- Amen. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grossfeld [mailto:rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 07:32 PM To: 'rockets northwest' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy Veterans Day Don, Thanks for the reminder,,,,,,,,,, To all Veterans, THANKS SO MUCH for all you have done. It is because of you, we get to enjoy our hobby, and freedom at home. I can never thank those in the armed forces enough. Peace and my best. Bob Grossfeld Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 21:14:00 2008 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:14:00 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Happy Veterans Day References: Message-ID: <007201c94485$7a99aac0$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> I've never been in the armed forces, yet have family members that are and have. As a proud American wish those currently serving, I thank you and to come home at God speed. And for those that have previously served, I thank you for helping to keep the freedom we all love. I am a proud American. Cheers, Robert PS. I'm not a writer, nor can I try to be. While I may not be able to express it via email, thoughts are true and just. Happy Veterans Days to all. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berfield" To: "Bob Grossfeld" ; "rockets northwest" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy Veterans Day Amen. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grossfeld [mailto:rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 07:32 PM To: 'rockets northwest' Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Happy Veterans Day Don, Thanks for the reminder,,,,,,,,,, To all Veterans, THANKS SO MUCH for all you have done. It is because of you, we get to enjoy our hobby, and freedom at home. I can never thank those in the armed forces enough. Peace and my best. Bob Grossfeld Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From Simpsonclark at aol.com Wed Nov 12 09:35:30 2008 From: Simpsonclark at aol.com (Simpsonclark at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:35:30 EST Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Message-ID: Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.) I dunno. > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001) -------------- next part -------------- Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance.? That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface.? I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation.? Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert ? In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>),? The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'.? It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch.? Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection.? :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.)? I dunno. > ? > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt.? The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > ? > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001 Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! From jhadv at pacifier.com Wed Nov 12 12:15:24 2008 From: jhadv at pacifier.com (Paul Bogdanich) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:15:24 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rockets Digest, Vol 10, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20081112120846.00c24190@mail.iinet.com> "Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance." Maybe so but this is where you get into the expansion rates of dissimilar materials and the heat and pressure of the ejection charge itself distending the body tube. For systems with dissimilar materials (in my case quantum tube for the rocket body) I found that as rigid a piston as possible, slightly tapered (2 thousands per inch 5 thousandths a side maximum) at 10 thousands clearance at the tapered end is safer. P.S. I found out the hard way after following the "recommendations!" From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Wed Nov 12 13:28:10 2008 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:28:10 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... :>) ________________________________ From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.) I dunno. > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em lcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ________________________________ Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! -------------- next part -------------- or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... ? :>) From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance.? That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface.? I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation.? Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert ? In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>),? The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'.? It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch.? Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection.? :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.)? I dunno. > ? > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt.? The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > ? > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001 Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! From greg at blastzone.com Wed Nov 12 14:18:59 2008 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:18:59 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <407301c94514$a9445520$fbccff60$@com> No doubt! When you're talking about thousands of an inch for the diameter of your piston, etc, its time to move on! -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... :>) ________________________________ From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.) I dunno. > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em lcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ________________________________ Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Thu Nov 13 21:50:32 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:50:32 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Space Shuttle Endeavour STS-126 Liftoff Friday, 14NOV08/1655 PST (0055 UTC) Message-ID: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/ http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/main/index.html Video http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html http://www.fromil.com/tv/index.php?radio=5 STS-126 is the next space shuttle mission to the ISS which will be flown by the Space Shuttle Endeavour. The purpose of the ISS mission, named ULF2, is to deliver equipment and supplies to the station, to service the Solar Alpha Rotary Joints (SARJ), and repair the problem in the starboard SARJ that has limited its use since STS-120. Launch of STS-126 is scheduled for Friday, November 14, 2008 at 4:55pm PST/7:55pm EST/00:55UTC. Space Shuttle Endeavour was moved from the Orbiter Processing Facility (OPF-2) at Kennedy Space Center to the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) on September 11, 2008. Rollout to launch pad 39B took place overnight on September 18 and was completed at 7:00am EDT on September 19, 2008. Due to the postponement of STS-125 to the Hubble Telescope Endeavour was moved from launch pad 39B to 39A on October 23, 2008. Mission payloads: STS-126 is scheduled to be a fifteen day mission with four spacewalks, largely dedicated to servicing and repair of the SARJ. An additional docked day may be added to the flight plan if consumables allow for it, to give the crew more time to complete their tasks. The starboard SARJ has showed anomalous behaviour since August 2007, and its use has been minimized pending diagnosis and repair. Both the starboard and port SARJs will be serviced. In addition to lubricating both bearings, the remaining 11 trundle bearings in the right SARJ will be replaced. STS-126 will also include the Leonardo Multi-Purpose Logistics Module (MPLM) that will hold supplies and equipment, including additional crew quarters, additional exercise equipment, equipment for the regenerative life support system and spare hardware. Educational Outreach: STS-126 will be carrying the signatures of over 500,000 students that participated in the 2008 Student Signatures in Space program, jointly sponsored by NASA and Lockheed Martin. In celebration of Space Day last May, students from over 500 schools signed giant posters. Their signatures were scanned onto a disk, and the disk has been manifested on the STS-126 mission. After the mission concludes, participating schools will receive the posters they signed, along with a photograph of the STS-126 crew and an official certification verifying that their signatures flew in space. Mission Background: This mission will mark the 155th American manned space flight 124th shuttle mission since STS-1 99th post-Challenger mission 11th post-Columbia mission 22nd flight of Endeavour 27th shuttle mission to the ISS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-126 From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Fri Nov 14 00:07:31 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:07:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <407301c94514$a9445520$fbccff60$@com> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <407301c94514$a9445520$fbccff60$@com> Message-ID: <1128.208.100.241.183.1226650051.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Which is my feeling about pistons in rockets. Tube materials that swell/shrink with changes in temperature or humidity, slightly out-of-round tubes, BP crud sticking to critical surfaces, cumulative invisible but significant damage during landings...you'd better be prepared to put in significant TLC to ensure proper functioning. Pistons have their place in rocket recovery systems, but not in little stuff 'n shoot fun-time rockets. +McG+ > No doubt! When you're talking about thousands of an inch for the diameter > of your piston, etc, its time to move on! > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM > To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... > > :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM > To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the > glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and > filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is > the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped > chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass > and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body > tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly > curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the > installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. > -Robert > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: > > You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? > > Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of > a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... > incomparable. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they > seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there > any references that contain piston design that I could look into? > -B > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough > clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch > the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a > rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high > grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for > "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. > > That may have something to do with why I was never a regular > user of piston ejection. :-) > +McG+ > > > > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard > Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the > piston > > and body tube.) I dunno. > > > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the > piston > > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this > can > > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > > > Mike F. > > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all > other > > Holiday needs. > > > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= > http > > ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em > lcnt > ussear00000001 > > Search Now > > . > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Get the Moviefone Toolbar > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 > 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Fri Nov 14 18:16:18 2008 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:16:18 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park In-Reply-To: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> References: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> http://failblog.org/2008/07/27/soccer-fail John From mrrominwa at yahoo.com Sat Nov 15 10:20:48 2008 From: mrrominwa at yahoo.com (dave woodard) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:20:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <1128.208.100.241.183.1226650051.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <285556.18013.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> just go for a scale v2 landimg --- On Fri, 11/14/08, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options To: "Greg Deputy" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 12:07 AM Which is my feeling about pistons in rockets. Tube materials that swell/shrink with changes in temperature or humidity, slightly out-of-round tubes, BP crud sticking to critical surfaces, cumulative invisible but significant damage during landings...you'd better be prepared to put in significant TLC to ensure proper functioning. Pistons have their place in rocket recovery systems, but not in little stuff 'n shoot fun-time rockets. +McG+ > No doubt! When you're talking about thousands of an inch for the diameter > of your piston, etc, its time to move on! > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM > To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... > > :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM > To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the > glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and > filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is > the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped > chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass > and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body > tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly > curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the > installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. > -Robert > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: > > You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? > > Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of > a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... > incomparable. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they > seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there > any references that contain piston design that I could look into? > -B > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough > clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch > the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a > rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high > grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for > "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. > > That may have something to do with why I was never a regular > user of piston ejection. :-) > +McG+ > > > > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard > Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the > piston > > and body tube.) I dunno. > > > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the > piston > > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this > can > > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > > > Mike F. > > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all > other > > Holiday needs. > > > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= > http > > ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em > lcnt > ussear00000001 > > Search Now > > . > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Get the Moviefone Toolbar > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 > 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- just go for a scale v2 landimg --- On Fri, 11/14/08, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com wrote: From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options To: "Greg Deputy" Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 12:07 AM Which is my feeling about pistons in rockets. Tube materials that swell/shrink with changes in temperature or humidity, slightly out-of-round tubes, BP crud sticking to critical surfaces, cumulative invisible but significant damage during landings...you'd better be prepared to put in significant TLC to ensure proper functioning. Pistons have their place in rocket recovery systems, but not in little stuff 'n shoot fun-time rockets. +McG+ > No doubt! When you're talking about thousands of an inch for the diameter > of your piston, etc, its time to move on! > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM > To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... > > :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM > To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the > glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and > filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is > the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped > chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass > and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body > tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly > curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the > installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. > -Robert > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: > > You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? > > Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of > a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... > incomparable. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they > seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there > any references that contain piston design that I could look into? > -B > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough > clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch > the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a > rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high > grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for > "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. > > That may have something to do with why I was never a regular > user of piston ejection. :-) > +McG+ > > > > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard > Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the > piston > > and body tube.) I dunno. > > > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the > piston > > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this > can > > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > > > Mike F. > > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all > other > > Holiday needs. > > > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= > http > > ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em > lcnt > ussear00000001 > > Search Now > > . > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Get the Moviefone Toolbar > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 > 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 13:23:01 2008 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:23:01 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park References: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <000801c94768$593f2090$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> John, That would certainly make for a more unique game of football (soccer). Players trying to work the ball into the opponents goal, while archers are trying to shoot the ball. Run! Pass the ball! [ooooooo...weeee.....eehhh... eh... oooo......] "Thank you for joining us on TNN for the Archery Hunters series. Hey! I'm Bubba and here with me is grand master archer Ted Nuggent. Today we visit a site in Washington state playing a new sport. Ted and other archers seek score with the checker ball. This is so exciting, I can barely contain myseft. What do you think, Ted?" Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park > > > http://failblog.org/2008/07/27/soccer-fail > > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 18:20:23 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:20:23 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park In-Reply-To: <000801c94768$593f2090$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> References: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <000801c94768$593f2090$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <491F8367.5080801@earthlink.net> Click this link to listen to a parody commercial for hunting virile Afghanis. Substitute Afghanis for soccer players and rifles for bows. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmaaBFYDwxI Robert P.S. If you are easily offended by anything, please, don't click the link. Robert Krausert wrote: > John, > That would certainly make for a more unique game of football (soccer). > Players trying to work the ball into the opponents goal, while archers are > trying to shoot the ball. Run! Pass the ball! > > [ooooooo...weeee.....eehhh... eh... oooo......] "Thank you for joining us on > TNN for the Archery Hunters series. Hey! I'm Bubba and here with me is grand > master archer Ted Nuggent. Today we visit a site in Washington state playing > a new sport. Ted and other archers seek score with the checker ball. This is > so exciting, I can barely contain myseft. What do you think, Ted?" > > Cheers, > Robert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park > > > >> http://failblog.org/2008/07/27/soccer-fail >> >> >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 18:51:19 2008 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:51:19 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park References: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><000801c94768$593f2090$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> <491F8367.5080801@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007001c94796$34fef380$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> Hammer, Where do you think I tried (yet horrible attempt) at the hunting channel. Trust me, you will be hard pressed to ever offend me. Me like humor. Shirley you're not serious? Yes, I am serious and don't call me Shirley. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hammer" Cc: Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park > Click this link to listen to a parody commercial for hunting virile > Afghanis. > Substitute Afghanis for soccer players and rifles for bows. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmaaBFYDwxI > > Robert > > P.S. If you are easily offended by anything, please, don't click the link. > > Robert Krausert wrote: >> John, >> That would certainly make for a more unique game of football (soccer). >> Players trying to work the ball into the opponents goal, while archers >> are >> trying to shoot the ball. Run! Pass the ball! >> >> [ooooooo...weeee.....eehhh... eh... oooo......] "Thank you for joining us >> on >> TNN for the Archery Hunters series. Hey! I'm Bubba and here with me is >> grand >> master archer Ted Nuggent. Today we visit a site in Washington state >> playing >> a new sport. Ted and other archers seek score with the checker ball. This >> is >> so exciting, I can barely contain myseft. What do you think, Ted?" >> >> Cheers, >> Robert >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park >> >> >> >>> http://failblog.org/2008/07/27/soccer-fail >>> >>> >>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From gbhchrist at verizon.net Sat Nov 15 19:27:15 2008 From: gbhchrist at verizon.net (George Christ) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:27:15 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: First of all, I am not one of the easily offended (reference to an extension of this thread I have not included below) nor am I an apologist for Lake Washington Youth Soccer Association. I have long been one of the most vociferous critics of LWYSA attempts to acquire 60 Acres and a staunch ( I suppose it would be immodest to say eloquent) defender of open access to the park, appearing in Seattle Area Soaring Society's video on the topic and writing to King County executives, council members and newspapers. I am not happy that the County Council granted LWYSA a lease! That said, I have to say that LWYSA has been a lot more accommodating in the past couple years. Not only did they remove in early 2006 the signs forbidding any non-soccer use of the northern half of the park (which they have controlled for quite some time), they allowed the Sammamish Trails District to hold the 8th annual Cub Scout rocket launch on that field this past September. We normally have about 175 Scouts attend that event and launch between 300 and 340 flights. Yes, it was less this year due to the rain, but LWYSA could not have known what the weather would be when they agreed to let us use the field. LWYSA even made a very generous donation to help underwrite the event. None of this guarantees that LWYSA will continue to be so accommodating, but it seems reasonable to give them credit for these positive actions and some degree of the benefit of the doubt. I hope that they continue to demonstrate good stewardship and support shared use...and I will be all over them once again if they do not! George ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park > > > http://failblog.org/2008/07/27/soccer-fail > > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From gbhchrist at verizon.net Sat Nov 15 19:27:15 2008 From: gbhchrist at verizon.net (George Christ) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:27:15 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: First of all, I am not one of the easily offended (reference to an extension of this thread I have not included below) nor am I an apologist for Lake Washington Youth Soccer Association. I have long been one of the most vociferous critics of LWYSA attempts to acquire 60 Acres and a staunch ( I suppose it would be immodest to say eloquent) defender of open access to the park, appearing in Seattle Area Soaring Society's video on the topic and writing to King County executives, council members and newspapers. I am not happy that the County Council granted LWYSA a lease! That said, I have to say that LWYSA has been a lot more accommodating in the past couple years. Not only did they remove in early 2006 the signs forbidding any non-soccer use of the northern half of the park (which they have controlled for quite some time), they allowed the Sammamish Trails District to hold the 8th annual Cub Scout rocket launch on that field this past September. We normally have about 175 Scouts attend that event and launch between 300 and 340 flights. Yes, it was less this year due to the rain, but LWYSA could not have known what the weather would be when they agreed to let us use the field. LWYSA even made a very generous donation to help underwrite the event. None of this guarantees that LWYSA will continue to be so accommodating, but it seems reasonable to give them credit for these positive actions and some degree of the benefit of the doubt. I hope that they continue to demonstrate good stewardship and support shared use...and I will be all over them once again if they do not! George ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park > > > http://failblog.org/2008/07/27/soccer-fail > > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Sat Nov 15 20:23:37 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:23:37 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park In-Reply-To: <007001c94796$34fef380$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> References: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net><000801c94768$593f2090$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> <491F8367.5080801@earthlink.net> <007001c94796$34fef380$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <491FA049.4030208@earthlink.net> I put disclaimers on anything that might even remotely offend those with a different sense of humor or the lack thereof in order to stave off any future conflicts on this list. Robert Robert Krausert wrote: > Hammer, > Where do you think I tried (yet horrible attempt) at the hunting > channel. Trust me, you will be hard pressed to ever offend me. Me like > humor. > > Shirley you're not serious? Yes, I am serious and don't call me Shirley. > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hammer" > > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park > > >> Click this link to listen to a parody commercial for hunting virile >> Afghanis. >> Substitute Afghanis for soccer players and rifles for bows. >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmaaBFYDwxI >> >> Robert >> >> P.S. If you are easily offended by anything, please, don't click the >> link. >> >> Robert Krausert wrote: >>> John, >>> That would certainly make for a more unique game of football (soccer). >>> Players trying to work the ball into the opponents goal, while >>> archers are >>> trying to shoot the ball. Run! Pass the ball! >>> >>> [ooooooo...weeee.....eehhh... eh... oooo......] "Thank you for >>> joining us on >>> TNN for the Archery Hunters series. Hey! I'm Bubba and here with me >>> is grand >>> master archer Ted Nuggent. Today we visit a site in Washington state >>> playing >>> a new sport. Ted and other archers seek score with the checker ball. >>> This is >>> so exciting, I can barely contain myseft. What do you think, Ted?" >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robert >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park >>> >>> >>> >>>> http://failblog.org/2008/07/27/soccer-fail >>>> >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockets mailing list >>>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun Nov 16 00:36:39 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:36:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <285556.18013.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <1128.208.100.241.183.1226650051.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> <285556.18013.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1147.208.100.240.114.1226824599.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> > just go for a scale v2 landimg Ah, but to be truly scale that involves 'payloads' prohibited by the safety code! :-) +McG+ > --- On Fri, 11/14/08, kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > wrote: > > From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > To: "Greg Deputy" > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 12:07 AM > > Which is my feeling about pistons in rockets. Tube materials that > swell/shrink with changes in temperature or humidity, slightly > out-of-round tubes, BP crud sticking to critical surfaces, cumulative > invisible but significant damage during landings...you'd better be > prepared to put in significant TLC to ensure proper functioning. > > Pistons have their place in rocket recovery systems, but not in little > stuff 'n shoot fun-time rockets. > +McG+ > > >> No doubt! When you're talking about thousands of an inch for the > diameter >> of your piston, etc, its time to move on! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM >> To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... >> >> :>) >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM >> To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> >> Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the >> glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and >> filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is >> the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and > shroud-wrapped >> chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass >> and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body >> tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly >> curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the >> installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. >> -Robert >> >> In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >> steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: >> >> You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? >> >> Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of >> a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... >> incomparable. >> >> steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM >> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they >> seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there >> any references that contain piston design that I could look into? >> -B >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM >> To: Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough >> clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch >> the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. > It's a >> rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high >> grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for >> "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. >> >> That may have something to do with why I was never a regular >> user of piston ejection. :-) >> +McG+ >> >> >> > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard >> Time, >> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >> > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the >> piston >> > and body tube.) I dunno. >> > >> > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the >> piston >> > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this >> can >> > happen since tolerances are usually greater. >> > >> > Mike F. >> > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all >> other >> > Holiday needs. >> > >> >> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= >> http >> >> ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em >> lcnt >> ussear00000001 >> > Search Now >> > . >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Get the Moviefone Toolbar >> > > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 >> 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun Nov 16 01:05:37 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 01:05:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] New Sign for 60 Acres Park In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix .net> References: <491D11A8.6090009@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BBDAC@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <1519.208.100.240.114.1226826337.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> > http://failblog.org/2008/07/27/soccer-fail Sounds like a good idea to me... As for soccer, if you'd throw a rabid fox or two on the field I might even watch it! Kick the ball, avoid the fox...oops, that player's going to the penalty box for shots...don't worry about the fox getting in the stands, soccer fans are rabid anyway. ;-) Gimme a game of dodge-the-rocket any day over soccer. LOL +McG+ From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Sun Nov 16 08:48:51 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:48:51 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket powered skateboard Message-ID: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee0HYpcT5yI Motor generates 22 pounds of thrust for 9.5 seconds. Robert From vonrang at yahoo.com Sun Nov 16 12:21:55 2008 From: vonrang at yahoo.com (Sam Grado) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:21:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket powered skateboard In-Reply-To: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <109684.52309.qm@web52206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The was designed and developed by Dan Pollino of San Diego, CA. He produced a very detailed "How To" book for building this rocket powered skateboard. www.inverseengineering.com Sam Grado TRA-L2 "If you're going to build it, build it from scratch!" http://www.sugarshot.org/bios/sgrado.html http://groups.google.com/group/PVC-Motor-Rockets samgrado at pvconly.com --- On Sun, 11/16/08, Hammer wrote: > From: Hammer > Subject: [RocketsNW] Rocket powered skateboard > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Date: Sunday, November 16, 2008, 8:48 AM > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee0HYpcT5yI > > Motor generates 22 pounds of thrust for 9.5 seconds. > > Robert > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 16 21:32:29 2008 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:32:29 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve> You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... :>) ________________________________ From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.) I dunno. > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em lcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ________________________________ Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Mon Nov 17 06:30:29 2008 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:30:29 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E808121739@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Nope, sorry Steve, I don't use pistons in any airframe. I've never felt it was necessary, or even prudent. steve -----Original Message----- From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... :>) ________________________________ From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.) I dunno. > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em lcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ________________________________ Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Mon Nov 17 06:33:17 2008 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:33:17 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... steve -----Original Message----- From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... :>) ________________________________ From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.) I dunno. > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em lcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ________________________________ Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! From steven.e.bloom at boeing.com Mon Nov 17 06:39:11 2008 From: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com (Bloom, Steven E) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:39:11 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173B@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Maybe I missread the question. It is monday morning after all. :) Component specs and allowances for a "non-piston" recovery system in a 38mm airframe? That I do have experience with. steve -----Original Message----- From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... :>) ________________________________ From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.) I dunno. > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em lcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ________________________________ Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! From steve-c at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 17 07:09:31 2008 From: steve-c at ix.netcom.com (Steve Cutonilli) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:09:31 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173B@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <000001c948c6$7edf7cf0$c801a8c0@steve> Steve - just ribbing you dude as I know you are one of the savvier flyers in the community. I realize the general woes of using pistons and as I said, for 38mm it does represents an efficient method to consider. I'm not trying to sway anyone in this regard and I apologize for the confrontational tone to my reply. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: Bloom, Steven E [mailto:steven.e.bloom at boeing.com] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:39 AM To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Maybe I missread the question. It is monday morning after all. :) Component specs and allowances for a "non-piston" recovery system in a 38mm airframe? That I do have experience with. steve -----Original Message----- From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... :>) ________________________________ From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.) I dunno. > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em lcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ________________________________ Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! From bigrockets at verizon.net Mon Nov 17 13:24:04 2008 From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:24:04 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] The Red Dragon (a tale of tales) Message-ID: <000301c948fa$d26136a0$7723a3e0$@net> And so it came to pass that a red dragon rose up out of the sea. And he breathed his foul breath on the middle east, and it didst scorch the land and there was a loud wailing and gnashing of teeth. And the multitudes of these lands became cranky, and hot for the climate had changed into an abomination unto the earth. Cunning was the dragon for he left blasphemous scriptures for the people of these lands. These scriptures were of falsehoods and rebuked all peoples except for the few that read his word. And these other peoples were call infidels. An lo the dragon spoke to some cranky, dirty and hot prophets and didst beguile them with his silver tong saying " ye that follow me shalt be granted life everlasting." Ye must destroy the infidels before you." He commanded them to go out unto the multitudes and speak his words, and they did this and all was bad. His disciples didst make a long journey unto the land called America. By treachery didst take over three air liners and flew them into two dwellings called the Twin Towers. There was fire and brimstone and death and much suffering. And these same peoples also flew another airliner into a strange shaped abode and there was more fire and brimstone and suffering. The Americans hearts were filled with grief and misery. And they didst give this thing a name and it was called 911 and it was the mark of the dragon. The Americans hearts were hardened and they wanted some payback. The leader of these peoples was a man from Texas named Bush. The American armies didst sojourn unto the land of the hot and cranky, and great battles were fought. The battles continue on unto this day. There arose out of the nations a cry to end the war, for some of these people had forgotten what the disciples of the red dragon had done unto America. And it came to pass that a new leader should be brought forth unto the multitudes of American. And his name was of the peoples of the red dragon. There was much lamenting of his rise to power. He was to speak to the multitudes and he would not recite the Pledge of Allegiance for his lips were sealed and he would not salute the flag either. A little girl in the multitudes beseeched her mother saying" Mother why doesn't that man have his hand over his heart?" And the mother hearing this said to her child, "because he has no heart my child." This man came to power and he didst battle with the NRA and the Lyngdal-Proffitt armies for he forbade his multitudes to own guns. And some of the democrats heard this and thought it was good. And it came to pass that Fred Azinger and his friends didst frequent a clan called OROC. This was a nomadic tribe that sojourned unto the lands of Black Rock and Brothers and hither and yon. And these disciples of OROC didst make large spears of all sizes and didst command them to leap unto the heavens and they did this and on their feet were fire and brimstone and pillars of smoke didst' issue forth from the spears and there was much rejoicing during these gatherings. These disciples didst make up their own fire and brimstone for their spears and it was called research. There was much usage of a earthen element called Ammonium Perchlorate. This caused the fire and brimstone to be brilliant and to make the spears rise high unto the heavens. And so the new leader was watching TV and saw a program showing these spears. And he decided that this was far more of an abomination than his gun control wars had been. And so it came to pass that he didst try to beseech his scribes and Pharisees to pass laws against using AP. And he wanted these spears to become dull and blunted. And lo the Angel Alex didst appear unto the leader whom his peoples call "O". And Alex descended from heaven and on his right side was KMJK and there was a bright blue "Aqua Flame" surrounding them and "O" saw this and was sore afraid. And Alex spoke to O in a voice as loud as a thousand P motors saying " Dude! Get thee back from thy AP!" Thou art an abomination unto OROC and thou shalt not bear false witness unto the scribes and Pharisees of the land." And O heard this and was sore afraid and did not speak. And KMJK didst address O saying in a voice and loud as 600 M motors, " If thee does not repent and leave the land of OROC till the end of days I shall seek thee out. I will bind thee to my immaculate Bomarc and launch thee unto the heavens for all to see." And Alex heard this and knew that it was good and a smile didst play acrossed his face. Now O heard this and there was a loud wailing and gnashing of his teeth that arose from him. And into the lands of the red dragon he dids't depart. And there came from the lands of OROC much laughter and merriment and there were propellant parties till hell wouldn't' have them. To be continued....... Dave Proffitt Scribe to the tribes of OROC -------------- next part -------------- ???????? And so it came to pass that a red dragon rose up out of the sea. And he breathed his foul breath on the middle east, and it didst scorch the land and there was a loud wailing and gnashing of teeth. ?And the multitudes of these lands became cranky, and hot for the climate had changed into an abomination unto the earth. Cunning was the dragon for he left blasphemous scriptures for the people of these lands. These scriptures were of falsehoods and rebuked all peoples except for the few that read his word. And these other peoples were call infidels. An lo the dragon spoke to some cranky, dirty and hot prophets and didst beguile them with his silver tong saying ??? ye that follow me shalt be granted life everlasting.??? Ye must destroy the infidels before you.??? He commanded them to go out unto the multitudes and speak his words, and they did this and all was bad. ???????? His disciples didst make a long journey unto the land called America. By treachery didst take over three air liners and flew them into two dwellings called the Twin Towers. There was fire and brimstone and death and much suffering. And these same peoples also flew another airliner into a strange shaped abode and there was more fire and brimstone and suffering. ???????? The Americans hearts were filled with grief and misery. And they didst give this thing a name and it was called 911 and it was the mark of the dragon. The Americans hearts were hardened and they wanted some payback. The leader of these peoples was a man from Texas named Bush. The American armies didst sojourn unto the land of the hot and cranky, and great battles were fought. The battles continue on unto this day. There arose out of the nations a cry to end the war, for some of these people had forgotten what the disciples of the red dragon had done unto America. And it came to pass that a new leader should be brought forth unto the multitudes of American. And his name was of the peoples of the red dragon. There was much lamenting of his rise to power. He was to speak to the multitudes and he would not recite the Pledge of Allegiance for his lips were sealed and he would not salute the flag either. A little girl in the multitudes beseeched her mother saying??? Mother why doesn???t that man have his hand over his heart???? And the mother hearing this said to her child, ???because he has no heart my child.??? This man came to power and he didst battle with the NRA and the Lyngdal-Proffitt armies for he forbade his multitudes to own guns. And some of the democrats heard this and thought it was good. And it came to pass that Fred Azinger and his friends didst frequent a clan called OROC. This was a nomadic tribe that sojourned unto the lands of Black Rock and Brothers and hither and yon. And these disciples of OROC didst make large spears of all sizes and didst command them to leap unto the heavens and they did this and on their feet were fire and brimstone and pillars of smoke didst??? issue forth from the spears and there was much rejoicing during these gatherings. These disciples didst make up their own fire and brimstone for their spears and it was called research. There was much usage of a earthen element called Ammonium Perchlorate. This caused the fire and brimstone to be brilliant and to make the spears rise high unto the heavens. ???????? ?And so the new leader was watching TV and saw a program showing these spears. And he decided that this was far more of an abomination than his gun control wars had been. And so it came to pass that he didst try to beseech his scribes and Pharisees to pass laws against using AP. ?And he wanted these spears to become dull and blunted. And lo the Angel Alex didst appear unto the leader whom his peoples call ???O???. And Alex descended from heaven and on his right side was KMJK and there was a bright blue ???Aqua Flame??? surrounding them and ???O??? saw this and was sore afraid. And Alex spoke to O in a voice as loud as a thousand P motors saying ??? Dude! Get thee back from thy AP!??? Thou art an abomination unto OROC and thou shalt not bear false witness unto the scribes and Pharisees of the land.??? And O heard this and was sore afraid and did not speak. And KMJK didst address O saying in a voice and loud as 600 M motors, ??? If thee does not repent and leave the land of OROC till the end of days I shall seek thee out. I will bind thee to my immaculate Bomarc and launch thee unto the heavens for all to see.??? And Alex heard this and knew that it was good and a smile didst play acrossed his face. Now O heard this and there was a loud wailing and gnashing of his teeth that arose from him. And into the lands of the red dragon he dids???t depart. And there came from the lands of OROC much laughter and merriment and there were propellant parties till hell wouldn???t??? have them. ? To be continued???????????????.. ? Dave Proffitt Scribe to the tribes of OROC ? ? ? From bigrockets at verizon.net Mon Nov 17 13:34:38 2008 From: bigrockets at verizon.net (Dave Proffitt) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:34:38 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Red Dragon clarification Message-ID: <000d01c948fc$4beb7390$e3c25ab0$@net> I posted a humorus story (at least I had fun doing it) to the board. It is not a political rant or a slam on the way any of us voted. All of you who have read my stories in the past know from whence my humor comes. I don't want this to escalate into a flaming thread either. Just read it for what it is, some laughs. Thanks, Dave Proffitt -------------- next part -------------- I posted a humorus story (at least I had fun doing it) to the board. It is not a political rant or a slam on the way any of us voted. All of you who have read my stories in the past know from whence my humor comes. I don???t want this to escalate into a flaming thread either. Just read it for what it is, some laughs. Thanks, Dave Proffitt From sb at berfield.com Mon Nov 17 14:37:22 2008 From: sb at berfield.com (Scott Berfield) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:37:22 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] The Red Dragon (a tale of tales) Message-ID: Interesting take on things. You obviously have way more free time than is healthy :) From: Dave Proffitt [mailto:bigrockets at verizon.net] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 01:24 PM To: 'OROC List' Subject: [RocketsNW] The Red Dragon (a tale of tales) And so it came to pass that a red dragon rose up out of the sea. And he breathed his foul breath on the middle east, and it didst scorch the land and there was a loud wailing and gnashing of teeth. And the multitudes of these lands became cranky, and hot for the climate had changed into an abomination unto the earth. Cunning was the dragon for he left blasphemous scriptures for the people of these lands. These scriptures were of falsehoods and rebuked all peoples except for the few that read his word. And these other peoples were call infidels. An lo the dragon spoke to some cranky, dirty and hot prophets and didst beguile them with his silver tong saying " ye that follow me shalt be granted life everlasting." Ye must destroy the infidels before you." He commanded them to go out unto the multitudes and speak his words, and they did this and all was bad. His disciples didst make a long journey unto the land called America. By treachery didst take over three air liners and flew them into two dwellings called the Twin Towers. There was fire and brimstone and death and much suffering. And these same peoples also flew another airliner into a strange shaped abode and there was more fire and brimstone and suffering. The Americans hearts were filled with grief and misery. And they didst give this thing a name and it was called 911 and it was the mark of the dragon. The Americans hearts were hardened and they wanted some payback. The leader of these peoples was a man from Texas named Bush. The American armies didst sojourn unto the land of the hot and cranky, and great battles were fought. The battles continue on unto this day. There arose out of the nations a cry to end the war, for some of these people had forgotten what the disciples of the red dragon had done unto America. And it came to pass that a new leader should be brought forth unto the multitudes of American. And his name was of the peoples of the red dragon. There was much lamenting of his rise to power. He was to speak to the multitudes and he would not recite the Pledge of Allegiance for his lips were sealed and he would not salute the flag either. A little girl in the multitudes beseeched her mother saying" Mother why doesn't that man have his hand over his heart?" And the mother hearing this said to her child, "because he has no heart my child." This man came to power and he didst battle with the NRA and the Lyngdal-Proffitt armies for he forbade his multitudes to own guns. And some of the democrats heard this and thought it was good. And it came to pass that Fred Azinger and his friends didst frequent a clan called OROC. This was a nomadic tribe that sojourned unto the lands of Black Rock and Brothers and hither and yon. And these disciples of OROC didst make large spears of all sizes and didst command them to leap unto the heavens and they did this and on their feet were fire and brimstone and pillars of smoke didst' issue forth from the spears and there was much rejoicing during these gatherings. These disciples didst make up their own fire and brimstone for their spears and it was called research. There was much usage of a earthen element called Ammonium Perchlorate. This caused the fire and brimstone to be brilliant and to make the spears rise high unto the heavens. And so the new leader was watching TV and saw a program showing these spears. And he decided that this was far more of an abomination than his gun control wars had been. And so it came to pass that he didst try to beseech his scribes and Pharisees to pass laws against using AP. And he wanted these spears to become dull and blunted. And lo the Angel Alex didst appear unto the leader whom his peoples call "O". And Alex descended from heaven and on his right side was KMJK and there was a bright blue "Aqua Flame" surrounding them and "O" saw this and was sore afraid. And Alex spoke to O in a voice as loud as a thousand P motors saying " Dude! Get thee back from thy AP!" Thou art an abomination unto OROC and thou shalt not bear false witness unto the scribes and Pharisees of the land." And O heard this and was sore afraid and did not speak. And KMJK didst address O saying in a voice and loud as 600 M motors, " If thee does not repent and leave the land of OROC till the end of days I shall seek thee out. I will bind thee to my immaculate Bomarc and launch thee unto the heavens for all to see." And Alex heard this and knew that it was good and a smile didst play acrossed his face. Now O heard this and there was a loud wailing and gnashing of his teeth that arose from him. And into the lands of the red dragon he dids't depart. And there came from the lands of OROC much laughter and merriment and there were propellant parties till hell wouldn't' have them. To be continued....... Dave Proffitt Scribe to the tribes of OROC -------------- next part -------------- Interesting take on things. You obviously have way more free time than is healthy :) From: Dave Proffitt [mailto:bigrockets at verizon.net] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 01:24 PM To: 'OROC List' Subject: [RocketsNW] The Red Dragon (a tale of tales) And so it came to pass that a red dragon rose up out of the sea. And he breathed his foul breath on the middle east, and it didst scorch the land and there was a loud wailing and gnashing of teeth. And the multitudes of these lands became cranky, and hot for the climate had changed into an abomination unto the earth. Cunning was the dragon for he left blasphemous scriptures for the people of these lands. These scriptures were of falsehoods and rebuked all peoples except for the few that read his word. And these other peoples were call infidels. An lo the dragon spoke to some cranky, dirty and hot prophets and didst beguile them with his silver tong saying " ye that follow me shalt be granted life everlasting." Ye must destroy the infidels before you." He commanded them to go out unto the multitudes and speak his words, and they did this and all was bad. His disciples didst make a long journey unto the land called America. By treachery didst take over three air liners and flew them into two dwellings called the Twin Towers. There was fire and brimstone and death and much suffering. And these same peoples also flew another airliner into a strange shaped abode and there was more fire and brimstone and suffering. The Americans hearts were filled with grief and misery. And they didst give this thing a name and it was called 911 and it was the mark of the dragon. The Americans hearts were hardened and they wanted some payback. The leader of these peoples was a man from Texas named Bush. The American armies didst sojourn unto the land of the hot and cranky, and great battles were fought. The battles continue on unto this day. There arose out of the nations a cry to end the war, for some of these people had forgotten what the disciples of the red dragon had done unto America. And it came to pass that a new leader should be brought forth unto the multitudes of American. And his name was of the peoples of the red dragon. There was much lamenting of his rise to power. He was to speak to the multitudes and he would not recite the Pledge of Allegiance for his lips were sealed and he would not salute the flag either. A little girl in the multitudes beseeched her mother saying" Mother why doesn't that man have his hand over his heart?" And the mother hearing this said to her child, "because he has no heart my child." This man came to power and he didst battle with the NRA and the Lyngdal-Proffitt armies for he forbade his multitudes to own guns. And some of the democrats heard this and thought it was good. And it came to pass that Fred Azinger and his friends didst frequent a clan called OROC. This was a nomadic tribe that sojourned unto the lands of Black Rock and Brothers and hither and yon. And these disciples of OROC didst make large spears of all sizes and didst command them to leap unto the heavens and they did this and on their feet were fire and brimstone and pillars of smoke didst' issue forth from the spears and there was much rejoicing during these gatherings. These disciples didst make up their own fire and brimstone for their spears and it was called research. There was much usage of a earthen element called Ammonium Perchlorate. This caused the fire and brimstone to be brilliant and to make the spears rise high unto the heavens. And so the new leader was watching TV and saw a program showing these spears. And he decided that this was far more of an abomination than his gun control wars had been. And so it came to pass that he didst try to beseech his scribes and Pharisees to pass laws against using AP. And he wanted these spears to become dull and blunted. And lo the Angel Alex didst appear unto the leader whom his peoples call "O". And Alex descended from heaven and on his right side was KMJK and there was a bright blue "Aqua Flame" surrounding them and "O" saw this and was sore afraid. And Alex spoke to O in a voice as loud as a thousand P motors saying " Dude! Get thee back from thy AP!" Thou art an abomination unto OROC and thou shalt not bear false witness unto the scribes and Pharisees of the land." And O heard this and was sore afraid and did not speak. And KMJK didst address O saying in a voice and loud as 600 M motors, " If thee does not repent and leave the land of OROC till the end of days I shall seek thee out. I will bind thee to my immaculate Bomarc and launch thee unto the heavens for all to see." And Alex heard this and knew that it was good and a smile didst play acrossed his face. Now O heard this and there was a loud wailing and gnashing of his teeth that arose from him. And into the lands of the red dragon he dids't depart. And there came from the lands of OROC much laughter and merriment and there were propellant parties till hell wouldn't' have them. To be continued....... Dave Proffitt Scribe to the tribes of OROC From winningstad at comcast.net Mon Nov 17 18:17:19 2008 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:17:19 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Message-ID: <5269A7EE834C4D9EB6B63541A69EFE75@downstair> ...piston recovery uses less BP. ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool. ...I like complicated systems. ...risk is SO invigorating! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?" Ann Coulter -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... steve -----Original Message----- From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... :>) ________________________________ From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. -Robert In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... incomparable. steve -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there any references that contain piston design that I could look into? -B -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM To: Mfreptiles at aol.com Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. That may have something to do with why I was never a regular user of piston ejection. :-) +McG+ > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the piston > and body tube.) I dunno. > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the piston > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this can > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > Mike F. > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= http ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em lcnt ussear00000001 > Search Now > . > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ________________________________ Get the Moviefone Toolbar . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 19:23:56 2008 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:23:56 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5269A7EE834C4D9EB6B63541A69EFE75@downstair> Message-ID: <003a01c9492d$192e7200$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> I have found going out for Suski with friends help me forget piston recovery. ;-) Leaving the chute outside airframe prevents hot gases from harming them. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Winningstad" To: "'Bloom, Steven E'" ; "'Steve Cutonilli'" ; ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > ...piston recovery uses less BP. > > ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool. > > ...I like complicated systems. > > ...risk is SO invigorating! > > Dennis S Winningstad > > 503-781-3529 > > "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood > celebrities > imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is > delivered to them?" > > Ann Coulter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM > To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate > creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? > > This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM > To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and > space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - > for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM > To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... > > :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM > To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the > glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and > filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is > the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped > chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass > and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body > tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly > curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the > installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. > -Robert > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: > > You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? > > Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of > a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... > incomparable. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they > seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there > any references that contain piston design that I could look into? > -B > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough > clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch > the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a > rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high > grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for > "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. > > That may have something to do with why I was never a regular > user of piston ejection. :-) > +McG+ > > > > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard > Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the > piston > > and body tube.) I dunno. > > > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the > piston > > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this > can > > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > > > Mike F. > > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all > other > > Holiday needs. > > > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= > http > > ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em > lcnt > ussear00000001 > > Search Now > > . > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Get the Moviefone Toolbar > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 > 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From carl20320 at msn.com Tue Nov 18 01:42:57 2008 From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 01:42:57 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Misc. stuff I need to sell Message-ID: I have some misc. stuff (mostly hardware) that I need to sell since my big project has gone over budget. This is all hardware that I am not likely to ever use or do not need due to duplicates. I would prefer payment by MO or check but will take PayPal if necessary. I have pictures if there is something in particular that you want to see. Basically everything is in really good condition. I will describe each piece. You pay postage. Contact me at carl20320 at msn.com if interested or would like pictures, more info, etc.. I'll start big and work my way smaller. 1) 75mm AMW type external thrust ring and forged eye bolt. The thrust ring appears to be SS but ??? I won this a few years back and have no use for it. Never used. $5 ??? 2) Dr Rocket 54mm Forward Closure - Extended Open. This is brand new. I bought it, never used it and now own the closed threaded. $34 3) Dr Rocket 54mm Forward Closure - Open. I used this a couple times. Very good condition. $30 I will combine 2 & 3 for $65 including shipping. 4) Dr Rocket 38/240 case. Used but in very good condition. There is minor discoloration of the anodizing on the inside where the o-rings sit. $25 5) Dr Rocket 38/120 case. Used once with a G67R. Excellent condition. $23 6) Aerotech 24/40 Hobby line motor. The outside looks brand new. The inside of the case has some discoloration of the anodizing. Over all, I would say this case is in excellent condition. $41 7) A second Aerotech 24/40 Hobby line motor. The outside is in very good condition with most of the stenciling still intact. The inside of the case has some discoloration of the anodizing. Over all, I would say this case is in good condition. $40 I will combine 6 and 7 for $80 including shipping. 8) SkyAngle Cert 3 XL. I bought this thinking it would be big enough for the 7.75X Upscale Alpha III. The project grew heavier and I wanted it to come down slower so I bought a Cert III XXL. This was used once for someone's L3. It is in excellent condition with no holes or burn marks I can find. $135 From john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Tue Nov 18 14:51:24 2008 From: john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com (john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:51:24 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies In-Reply-To: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net> References: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BC1FE@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> I was in the store today to do some shopping and Duane asked me to announce a D to M Aerotech motor and reload sale. All items in stock for $25% of MSRP Shop early for best selection. John From winningstad at comcast.net Tue Nov 18 15:08:33 2008 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:08:33 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BC1FE@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BC1FE@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <52D8A03F3A194A57A4542B7E0B198886@downstair> OK Rocket-junkies and Tammie's frequenters: my birthday is December 20th...shop early and avoid the rush! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself. Benjamin Franklin -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:51 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies I was in the store today to do some shopping and Duane asked me to announce a D to M Aerotech motor and reload sale. All items in stock for $25% of MSRP Shop early for best selection. John _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets -------------- next part -------------- OK Rocket-junkies and Tammie's frequenters: my birthday is December 20th... shop early and avoid the rush! ? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 ? The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself. ? Benjamin Franklin ? -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:51 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies ? ? I was in the store today to do some shopping and Duane asked me to announce a D to M Aerotech motor and reload sale. ? All items in stock for $25% of MSRP Shop early for best selection. ? ? John ? _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets ? From andrewm at hawkfeather.com Tue Nov 18 15:17:10 2008 From: andrewm at hawkfeather.com (Andrew MacMillen) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:17:10 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies In-Reply-To: <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BC1FE@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> References: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BC1FE@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> Message-ID: <49234CF6.6000809@hawkfeather.com> 25% _of_ or 25% _off_ ;) Andrew. john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com wrote: > I was in the store today to do some shopping and Duane asked me to announce a D to M Aerotech motor and reload sale. > > All items in stock for $25% of MSRP > Shop early for best selection. > > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From robert.krausert at intel.com Tue Nov 18 15:22:48 2008 From: robert.krausert at intel.com (Krausert, Robert) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:22:48 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies In-Reply-To: <52D8A03F3A194A57A4542B7E0B198886@downstair> References: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net> <1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BC1FE@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <52D8A03F3A194A57A4542B7E0B198886@downstair> Message-ID: <0D4616E6925F9541919B60692F61509E1B827791@orsmsx502.amr.corp.intel.com> The 20th!!! I need to get busy if I'm going to finish your baby seal skin slippers before your birthday. I'll wrap it in and include a card made from virgin pulp. Only the best for you Dennis. Cheers, Robert -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Winningstad Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:09 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies OK Rocket-junkies and Tammie's frequenters: my birthday is December 20th...shop early and avoid the rush! Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself. Benjamin Franklin -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:51 PM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies I was in the store today to do some shopping and Duane asked me to announce a D to M Aerotech motor and reload sale. All items in stock for $25% of MSRP Shop early for best selection. John _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From gbhchrist at verizon.net Tue Nov 18 18:01:07 2008 From: gbhchrist at verizon.net (George Christ) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:01:07 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies In-Reply-To: <49234CF6.6000809@hawkfeather.com> References: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net><1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BC1FE@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <49234CF6.6000809@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: <55617D04048F4BEB8BCABEB19328AEB4@LittleGoodBox> Or perhaps instead of dropping the "$" and having the "%" be ambiguous, the deal is a simple "All items in stock for $25 off MSRP"... For those of us who buy the lower-end items, this would be the most attractive of the possible interpretations of the offer! I'm not getting my hopes up, but this is as valid a parsing of "All items in stock for $25% of MSRP" as either of Andrew's suggestions. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew MacMillen" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies > 25% _of_ or 25% _off_ ;) > > Andrew. > > john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com wrote: >> I was in the store today to do some shopping and Duane asked me to >> announce a D to M Aerotech motor and reload sale. >> >> All items in stock for $25% of MSRP >> Shop early for best selection. >> >> >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From gbhchrist at verizon.net Tue Nov 18 18:01:07 2008 From: gbhchrist at verizon.net (George Christ) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:01:07 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies In-Reply-To: <49234CF6.6000809@hawkfeather.com> References: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net><1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BC1FE@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <49234CF6.6000809@hawkfeather.com> Message-ID: Or perhaps instead of dropping the "$" and having the "%" be ambiguous, the deal is a simple "All items in stock for $25 off MSRP"... For those of us who buy the lower-end items, this would be the most attractive of the possible interpretations of the offer! I'm not getting my hopes up, but this is as valid a parsing of "All items in stock for $25% of MSRP" as either of Andrew's suggestions. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew MacMillen" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies > 25% _of_ or 25% _off_ ;) > > Andrew. > > john.w.lyngdal at tektronix.com wrote: >> I was in the store today to do some shopping and Duane asked me to >> announce a D to M Aerotech motor and reload sale. >> >> All items in stock for $25% of MSRP >> Shop early for best selection. >> >> >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From john_lyngdal at verizon.net Tue Nov 18 19:06:10 2008 From: john_lyngdal at verizon.net (John Lyngdal) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:06:10 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Get a Boost on Christmas Shopping at Tammie's Hobbies In-Reply-To: <55617D04048F4BEB8BCABEB19328AEB4@LittleGoodBox> References: <49204EF3.3030901@earthlink.net><1299DB772C141340B34631B5C0F5368801015BC1FE@us-bv-m11.global.tektronix.net> <49234CF6.6000809@hawkfeather.com> <55617D04048F4BEB8BCABEB19328AEB4@LittleGoodBox> Message-ID: <000001c949f3$c6964ff0$53c2efd0$@net> I was in the store today to do some shopping and Duane asked me to announce a D to M Aerotech motor and reload sale. All items in stock for 25% off MSRP Shop early for best selection. From carl20320 at msn.com Tue Nov 18 20:25:40 2008 From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:25:40 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] 38/240 case inquirer Message-ID: Sorry to have to send this out to the list. Someone emailed me about the 38/240 case I have. While purging some emails, I guess I accidently deleted yours. Please email back and I will get in touch off list. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming ... Carl From carl20320 at msn.com Wed Nov 19 00:52:37 2008 From: carl20320 at msn.com (Carl Degner) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:52:37 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] WA L&I response time? Message-ID: What kind of time frames have people been encountering when dealing with L&I? I submitted my paperwork back the end of September for my magazine. To date, I still have not heard back from them. I have called numerous times and left messages but no returns. Any other ideas? I am having an announced BATFE inspection next week. He is going to go ahead and inspect my magazine when he is here. We was actually glad to hear I already had it and he could look at it. Something about not wanting to make the 2 1/2 hour drive each way to get here again. ;-) Carl From greg at blastzone.com Wed Nov 19 08:40:45 2008 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:40:45 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] WA L&I response time? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11cf01c94a65$91f8e510$b5eaaf30$@com> They've been fast in the past, but I called and asked for renewal stuff 2 weeks ago and have yet to receive it. When I called I got a person, no voicejail. Using the number off the back of my permit, which I posted here a week or so back. Check the archives and try that number if you haven't already.s -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Carl Degner Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:53 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] WA L&I response time? What kind of time frames have people been encountering when dealing with L&I? I submitted my paperwork back the end of September for my magazine. To date, I still have not heard back from them. I have called numerous times and left messages but no returns. Any other ideas? I am having an announced BATFE inspection next week. He is going to go ahead and inspect my magazine when he is here. We was actually glad to hear I already had it and he could look at it. Something about not wanting to make the 2 1/2 hour drive each way to get here again. ;-) Carl _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Fri Nov 21 05:57:49 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:57:49 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA, ATK Successfully Test First Orion Launch Abort Motor Message-ID: <4926BE5D.9030508@earthlink.net> Story includes embedded GoogTube video of static firing. http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=26994 From dmrandall at gmail.com Fri Nov 21 06:50:45 2008 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:50:45 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA, ATK Successfully Test First Orion Launch Abort Motor In-Reply-To: <4926BE5D.9030508@earthlink.net> References: <4926BE5D.9030508@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6bc920e40811210650s1f217183vdcdfddbeba3d78b5@mail.gmail.com> Interesting part for me: "the rocket plume exiting a rear nozzle, the manifold is placed at the forward end of the motor. The rocket thrust enters the manifold and is turned 155 degrees and forced out the four nozzles, creating a forward-pulling force." Has anyone on the list ever done a forward-pulling design? It creates the obvious need for more than one motor... Dave On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Hammer wrote: > Story includes embedded GoogTube video of static firing. > http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=26994 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave From scott at scottsrockets.com Fri Nov 21 06:59:07 2008 From: scott at scottsrockets.com (Scott T Bowers) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:59:07 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA, ATK Successfully Test First Orion Launch Abort Motor In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40811210650s1f217183vdcdfddbeba3d78b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4926BE5D.9030508@earthlink.net> <6bc920e40811210650s1f217183vdcdfddbeba3d78b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Wouldn't be difficult, you would need access to a good milling machine. I would use slots, kinda like a aero spike nozzle. You would have a dome nozzle with a bell affixed over it. Could be fun. Scott T. Bowers www.scottsrockets.com -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Dave Randall Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:51 AM To: NW Rocketry mailing list Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] NASA,ATK Successfully Test First Orion Launch Abort Motor Interesting part for me: "the rocket plume exiting a rear nozzle, the manifold is placed at the forward end of the motor. The rocket thrust enters the manifold and is turned 155 degrees and forced out the four nozzles, creating a forward-pulling force." Has anyone on the list ever done a forward-pulling design? It creates the obvious need for more than one motor... Dave On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Hammer wrote: > Story includes embedded GoogTube video of static firing. > http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=26994 > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > -- - Dave _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From dmrandall at gmail.com Fri Nov 21 08:57:13 2008 From: dmrandall at gmail.com (Dave Randall) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:57:13 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA, ATK Successfully Test First Orion Launch Abort Motor In-Reply-To: References: <4926BE5D.9030508@earthlink.net> <6bc920e40811210650s1f217183vdcdfddbeba3d78b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6bc920e40811210857s40981a05w67f23932c5735cce@mail.gmail.com> I guess I was thinking simple first - have a small tree of four motors pointing outward/downward. A POC could be done with a BT-80 tube and some 18mm motors quite readily I suspect. I admit, it's not quite the same as redirecting upward thrust back downward, but I was concerned first about the general notion of putting the motors at the forward end of the rocket. I suppose the principle is much like a bottle rocket. Which makes me wonder about any need for fins. Hmmm... might be a good weekend project to use up some old model rocket tubing I have laying around... :) Dave On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 6:59 AM, Scott T Bowers wrote: > Wouldn't be difficult, you would need access to a good milling machine. > > I would use slots, kinda like a aero spike nozzle. You would have a dome > nozzle with a bell affixed over it. Could be fun. > > > Scott T. Bowers > www.scottsrockets.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Dave Randall > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:51 AM > To: NW Rocketry mailing list > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] NASA,ATK Successfully Test First Orion Launch Abort > Motor > > Interesting part for me: > > "the rocket plume exiting a rear nozzle, the manifold is placed at the > forward end of the motor. The rocket thrust enters the manifold and is > turned 155 degrees and forced out the four nozzles, creating a > forward-pulling force." > > Has anyone on the list ever done a forward-pulling design? It > creates the obvious need for more than one motor... > > Dave > > > > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Hammer > wrote: >> Story includes embedded GoogTube video of static firing. >> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=26994 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > -- - Dave From pmschurke at seattleschools.org Sat Nov 22 20:13:14 2008 From: pmschurke at seattleschools.org (Schurke, Peter) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 20:13:14 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Paging Bill Munds References: <4926BE5D.9030508@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <844C3B8FA4FAED47AE3DAD6CD5EAF6A105EA998A@CNOCEX04.seattleschools.org> Paging Bill Munds...would Bill Munds please pick up the white courtesy phone... (and e-mail me off list) The Rocket Kids have a couple of questions for you..... Peter Schurke Teacher and Lead Advisor Ingraham Aerospace Sciences Academy Ingraham High School Seattle, WA From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Sun Nov 23 00:51:17 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:51:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA, ATK Successfully Test First Orion Launch Abort Motor In-Reply-To: <6bc920e40811210857s40981a05w67f23932c5735cce@mail.gmail.com> References: <4926BE5D.9030508@earthlink.net> <6bc920e40811210650s1f217183vdcdfddbeba3d78b5@mail.gmail.com> <6bc920e40811210857s40981a05w67f23932c5735cce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1166.208.100.241.217.1227430277.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> The rocket still has to be aerodynamically stable. There is no such thing as 'pendulum' or 'gravity' stabilization. One well-known pyro(no, not me!) once did a series of experiments that showed the stick on a skyrocket still needs to provide stabilizing force through aerodynamic effects. The old rule of thumb that the CG of a stick rocket needs to be slightly behind the exit plane of the nozzle turns out to be an approximation of the requisite condition for aerodynamic stability with the most commonly used materials and designs. In fact, the best skyrocket sticks he used turned out to be ragweed stalks--hollow and stiff. The worst was wire. A much, much lesser known pyro(me)did however once fly a "stacked cup" rocket that used three sticks in a tripod with small fins on the end. The motor was a pulse-mode design consisting of a stack of inverted paper cups with BP in between. Ridiculously inefficient but it did fly as designed(just not as high as hoped). Instead of the intended pop-pop it was more of a soft whup-whup. Part of my efforts back then to combine the functions of motor structure and reaction mass. The main discovery instead was how much coffee I was drinking out of the vending machine at work! But it was some interesting albeit ultimately useless theoretical work on trying to achieve something of a dynamic balance between propellant burning area and changing nozzle parameters. As usual, the approximations were way too approximate... Anyway, the basic design for each cup-stage was a backward facing combustion chamber with the exhaust being redirected downward. And it probably makes me the only NW rocketeer to have flown a twenty-five-stage rocket. :-) +McG+ > I guess I was thinking simple first - have a small tree of four motors > pointing outward/downward. A POC could be done with a BT-80 tube and > some 18mm motors quite readily I suspect. > > I admit, it's not quite the same as redirecting upward thrust back > downward, but I was concerned first about the general notion of > putting the motors at the forward end of the rocket. I suppose the > principle is much like a bottle rocket. Which makes me wonder about > any need for fins. Hmmm... might be a good weekend project to use up > some old model rocket tubing I have laying around... :) > > Dave > > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 6:59 AM, Scott T Bowers > wrote: >> Wouldn't be difficult, you would need access to a good milling machine. >> >> I would use slots, kinda like a aero spike nozzle. You would have a dome >> nozzle with a bell affixed over it. Could be fun. >> >> >> Scott T. Bowers >> www.scottsrockets.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Dave Randall >> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 6:51 AM >> To: NW Rocketry mailing list >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] NASA,ATK Successfully Test First Orion Launch >> Abort >> Motor >> >> Interesting part for me: >> >> "the rocket plume exiting a rear nozzle, the manifold is placed at the >> forward end of the motor. The rocket thrust enters the manifold and is >> turned 155 degrees and forced out the four nozzles, creating a >> forward-pulling force." >> >> Has anyone on the list ever done a forward-pulling design? It >> creates the obvious need for more than one motor... >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Hammer >> wrote: >>> Story includes embedded GoogTube video of static firing. >>> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=26994 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> - Dave >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> > > > > -- > - Dave > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net Sun Nov 23 09:05:42 2008 From: hammerhatesjunkmail at earthlink.net (Hammer) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 09:05:42 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] NASA, ATK Successfully Test First Orion Launch Abort Motor In-Reply-To: <1166.208.100.241.217.1227430277.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> References: <4926BE5D.9030508@earthlink.net> <6bc920e40811210650s1f217183vdcdfddbeba3d78b5@mail.gmail.com> <6bc920e40811210857s40981a05w67f23932c5735cce@mail.gmail.com> <1166.208.100.241.217.1227430277.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: <49298D66.7070902@earthlink.net> Here is a pic of the motor in the test stand before testing began. http://www.rocketsnw.com/uploads/OrionAbortTestStand.jpg Robert From greg at blastzone.com Mon Nov 24 11:02:19 2008 From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:02:19 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Getting rid of some AP Message-ID: <212301c94e67$2d121e90$87365bb0$@com> I'm in the process of clearing out the house and garage as our house is now on the market. Something about people not liking to buy houses that are cluttered... Anyways, I've got more AP than I really need right now so am looking to get rid of a little bit. I've got 3, maybe 4 buckets of 200 micron that I'm selling for $4 a lb, which works out to $200 per 50 lb bucket. This is free flowing, good quality material. Email me privately if you're interested. I'm in Bonney Lake (up the hill from Puyallup) and will not ship this stuff. If you're not local you'll need to arrange for pickup/delivery. Greg Deputy From appusher at q.com Tue Nov 25 17:21:28 2008 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:21:28 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <5269A7EE834C4D9EB6B63541A69EFE75@downstair> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve> <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5269A7EE834C4D9EB6B63541A69EFE75@downstair> Message-ID: you could always go with redundancy and place a charge under the parachute to ensure it really comes out. EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> From: winningstad at comcast.net> To: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; steve-c at ix.netcom.com; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:17:19 -0800> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options> > ...piston recovery uses less BP.> > ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool.> > ...I like complicated systems.> > ...risk is SO invigorating!> > Dennis S Winningstad> > 503-781-3529> > "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities> imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is> delivered to them?"> > Ann Coulter> > > -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM> To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com;> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options> > While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate> creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence?> > This airframe requires a piston recovery system because...> > steve> > -----Original Message-----> From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM> To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com;> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options> > You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and> space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm -> for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve > > -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM> To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com;> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options> > or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf.....> > :>)> > ________________________________> > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com]> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM> To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com;> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options> > > Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the> glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and> filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is> the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped> chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass> and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body> tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly> curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the> installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease.> -Robert> > In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,> steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes:> > You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!???> > Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of> a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison.....> incomparable.> > steve > > -----Original Message-----> From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options> > It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they> seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there> any references that contain piston design that I could look into?> -B> > -----Original Message-----> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com]> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM> To: Mfreptiles at aol.com> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options> > Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough> clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch> the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a> rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high> grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for> "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets.> > That may have something to do with why I was never a regular> user of piston ejection. :-)> +McG+> > > > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard> Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes:> > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the> piston > > and body tube.) I dunno.> > > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the> piston > > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this> can > > happen since tolerances are usually greater.> > > > Mike F.> > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all> other > > Holiday needs.> >> > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=> http> > ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em> lcnt> ussear00000001> > Search Now> > .> > _______________________________________________> > Rockets mailing list> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> >> > > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> > > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> > > > > > ________________________________> > Get the Moviefone Toolbar> =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000> 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!> > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> > > _______________________________________________> Rockets mailing list> Rockets at rocketsnw.com> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets> -------------- next part -------------- you could always go with redundancy and place a charge under the parachute to ensure it really comes out. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: winningstad at comcast.net > To: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; steve-c at ix.netcom.com; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:17:19 -0800 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > ...piston recovery uses less BP. > > ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool. > > ...I like complicated systems. > > ...risk is SO invigorating! > > Dennis S Winningstad > > 503-781-3529 > > "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities > imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is > delivered to them?" > > Ann Coulter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM > To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate > creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? > > This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM > To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and > space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - > for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM > To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... > > :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM > To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the > glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and > filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is > the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped > chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass > and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body > tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly > curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the > installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. > -Robert > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: > > You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? > > Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of > a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... > incomparable. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they > seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there > any references that contain piston design that I could look into? > -B > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough > clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch > the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a > rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high > grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for > "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. > > That may have something to do with why I was never a regular > user of piston ejection. :-) > +McG+ > > > > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard > Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the > piston > > and body tube.) I dunno. > > > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the > piston > > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this > can > > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > > > Mike F. > > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all > other > > Holiday needs. > > > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= > http > > ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em > lcnt > ussear00000001 > > Search Now > > . > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Get the Moviefone Toolbar > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 > 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From appusher at q.com Tue Nov 25 17:29:37 2008 From: appusher at q.com (Bill Munds) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:29:37 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Red Dragon clarification In-Reply-To: <000d01c948fc$4beb7390$e3c25ab0$@net> References: <000d01c948fc$4beb7390$e3c25ab0$@net> Message-ID: Hey Mister Profitt! If anyone doesn't enjoy yor scribe they can end their subscription to the list. You are the wise story teller that we have all come to love. I think I have all of your scribes in "The Dave" file. the grandkids love 'em. Keep it up! Your biggest fan, Bill at PSP EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:34:38 -0800> From: bigrockets at verizon.net> To: rockets at rocketsnw.com> Subject: [RocketsNW] Red Dragon clarification> > I posted a humorus story (at least I had fun doing it) to the board. It is> not a political rant or a slam on the way any of us voted. All of you who> have read my stories in the past know from whence my humor comes. I don't> want this to escalate into a flaming thread either. Just read it for what it> is, some laughs.> > Thanks,> > Dave Proffitt> -------------- next part -------------- Hey Mister Profitt! If anyone doesn't enjoy yor scribe they can end their subscription to the list.? You are the wise story teller that we have all come to love. I think I have all of your scribes in "The Dave" file.? the grandkids love 'em.? Keep it up! ? Your biggest fan, ? mailto:Bill at PSP Bill at PSP http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:34:38 -0800 > From: bigrockets at verizon.net > To: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: [RocketsNW] Red Dragon clarification > > I posted a humorus story (at least I had fun doing it) to the board. It is > not a political rant or a slam on the way any of us voted. All of you who > have read my stories in the past know from whence my humor comes. I don't > want this to escalate into a flaming thread either. Just read it for what it > is, some laughs. > > Thanks, > > Dave Proffitt > From winningstad at comcast.net Wed Nov 26 01:27:40 2008 From: winningstad at comcast.net (Dennis Winningstad) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:27:40 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <5269A7EE834C4D9EB6B63541A69EFE75@downstair> Message-ID: <91B9DD27BD35476E8CFF56AD09FD01E2@downstair> My Lvl 1 cert flt (the successful one!) was w/PML Ariel utilizing a piston. Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?" Ann Coulter _____ From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:21 PM To: winningstad at comcast.net; steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; Steve C; simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mike Fisher Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options you could always go with redundancy and place a charge under the parachute to ensure it really comes out. i'mEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: winningstad at comcast.net > To: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; steve-c at ix.netcom.com; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:17:19 -0800 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > ...piston recovery uses less BP. > > ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool. > > ...I like complicated systems. > > ...risk is SO invigorating! > > Dennis S Winningstad > > 503-781-3529 > > "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities > imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is > delivered to them?" > > Ann Coulter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM > To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate > creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? > > This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM > To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and > space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - > for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM > To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... > > :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM > To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the > glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and > filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is > the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped > chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass > and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body > tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly > curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the > installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. > -Robert > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: > > You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? > > Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of > a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... > incomparable. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they > seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there > any references that contain piston design that I could look into? > -B > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough > clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch > the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a > rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high > grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for > "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. > > That may have something to do with why I was never a regular > user of piston ejection. :-) > +McG+ > > > > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard > Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the > piston > > and body tube.) I dunno. > > > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the > piston > > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this > can > > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > > > Mike F. > > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all > other > > Holiday needs. > > > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= > http > > ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em > lcnt > ussear00000001 > > Search Now > > . > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Get the Moviefone Toolbar > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 > 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > -------------- next part -------------- My Lvl 1 cert flt (the successful one!) was w/PML Ariel utilizing a piston??? ? Dennis S Winningstad 503-781-3529 "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?" Ann Coulter From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:21 PM To: winningstad at comcast.net; steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; Steve C; simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mike Fisher Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options ? you could always go with redundancy and place a charge under the parachute to ensure it really comes out. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_charity.gif EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me > From: winningstad at comcast.net > To: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; steve-c at ix.netcom.com; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:17:19 -0800 > CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > ...piston recovery uses less BP. > > ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool. > > ...I like complicated systems. > > ...risk is SO invigorating! > > Dennis S Winningstad > > 503-781-3529 > > "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities > imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is > delivered to them?" > > Ann Coulter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM > To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate > creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? > > This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM > To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and > space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - > for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM > To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... > > :>) > > ________________________________ > > From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM > To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the > glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and > filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is > the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped > chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass > and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body > tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly > curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the > installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. > -Robert > > In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: > > You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? > > Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of > a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... > incomparable. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM > To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they > seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there > any references that contain piston design that I could look into? > -B > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com > [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM > To: Mfreptiles at aol.com > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough > clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch > the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a > rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high > grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for > "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. > > That may have something to do with why I was never a regular > user of piston ejection. :-) > +McG+ > > > > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard > Time, > > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: > > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the > piston > > and body tube.) I dunno. > > > > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the > piston > > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this > can > > happen since tolerances are usually greater. > > > > Mike F. > > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all > other > > Holiday needs. > > > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= > http > > ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em > lcnt > ussear00000001 > > Search Now > > . > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockets mailing list > > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Get the Moviefone Toolbar > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 > 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 16:08:02 2008 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:08:02 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><5269A7EE834C4D9EB6B63541A69EFE75@downstair> <91B9DD27BD35476E8CFF56AD09FD01E2@downstair> Message-ID: <001201c95024$3863a930$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> Ok, here is the question/comment. I'd invite anyone from PML to build one of there $200+ birds with a piston and fly it with us all watching. They of course shouls have a flawless flight, right? Or do the piston if you wish. Try to make sure you add enough BP to get the piston out. I think some do not realize how much is needed, because the piston under vacuum and pressure at the same time, but all in the wrong place. If you normally use 10 grains for a 3" airframe, one with a piston needs more. The equation I use is [normal grains] times [500]. So if you normally use 10 grains without, you'll need 5000 grains with a piston. Hot or cold. Plastic or paper. This will get the piston out. LOL. Just kidding. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Winningstad" To: "'Bill Munds'" ; ; "'Steve C'" ; ; ; ; "'Mike Fisher'" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > My Lvl 1 cert flt (the successful one!) was w/PML Ariel utilizing a > piston. > > > > Dennis S Winningstad > > 503-781-3529 > > "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood > celebrities > imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is > delivered to them?" > > Ann Coulter > > _____ > > From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:21 PM > To: winningstad at comcast.net; steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; Steve C; > simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mike Fisher > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > > you could always go with redundancy and place a charge under the parachute > to ensure it really comes out. > > > > > > > > > i'mEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: winningstad at comcast.net >> To: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; steve-c at ix.netcom.com; > Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:17:19 -0800 >> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> ...piston recovery uses less BP. >> >> ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool. >> >> ...I like complicated systems. >> >> ...risk is SO invigorating! >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> >> 503-781-3529 >> >> "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood > celebrities >> imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is >> delivered to them?" >> >> Ann Coulter >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM >> To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate >> creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? >> >> This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... >> >> steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] >> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM >> To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and >> space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - >> for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM >> To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... >> >> :>) >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM >> To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> >> Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the >> glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and >> filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is >> the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped >> chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass >> and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body >> tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly >> curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the >> installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. >> -Robert >> >> In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >> steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: >> >> You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? >> >> Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of >> a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... >> incomparable. >> >> steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM >> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they >> seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there >> any references that contain piston design that I could look into? >> -B >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM >> To: Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough >> clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch >> the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a >> rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high >> grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for >> "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. >> >> That may have something to do with why I was never a regular >> user of piston ejection. :-) >> +McG+ >> >> >> > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard >> Time, >> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >> > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the >> piston >> > and body tube.) I dunno. >> > >> > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the >> piston >> > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this >> can >> > happen since tolerances are usually greater. >> > >> > Mike F. >> > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all >> other >> > Holiday needs. >> > >> >> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= >> http >> >> ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em >> lcnt >> ussear00000001 >> > Search Now >> > . >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Get the Moviefone Toolbar >> > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 >> 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > From bradwr at wrightholdings.com Wed Nov 26 23:08:42 2008 From: bradwr at wrightholdings.com (Brad Wright) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:08:42 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <001201c95024$3863a930$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><5269A7EE834C4D9EB6B63541A69EFE75@downstair> <91B9DD27BD35476E8CFF56AD09FD01E2@downstair> <001201c95024$3863a930$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <4EC021482946994792D633FF8E22EB0B302BD03252@BL2PRD0101MB002.prod.exchangelabs.com> Sigh.... must we do this every year?? Pistons work just as well as any other recovery system PROPERLY applied. I've flown numerous piston designs and numerous non-piston designs with EQUAL success and failure. Like any design proper USAGE and attention to DETAIL is needed. More failures in our hobby are due to user error than anything else. Anyone who doesn't admit that is fooling themselves. Some simple piston rules: 1) preferably use the same material for the airframe and piston - The Wildman and Hawk Mountain Beast as examples 2) if using different materials understand the thermal and friction dynamics and PLAN for them 3) one correction to the below comment, a piston system requires LESS BP than a non-piston design - and yes this is from real world experience Both piston and non and viable and I use both but you need to understand the design and failure modes of everything you use. b -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Robert Krausert Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:08 PM To: Dennis Winningstad; 'Bill Munds'; steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; 'Steve C'; simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; 'Mike Fisher' Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options Ok, here is the question/comment. I'd invite anyone from PML to build one of there $200+ birds with a piston and fly it with us all watching. They of course shouls have a flawless flight, right? Or do the piston if you wish. Try to make sure you add enough BP to get the piston out. I think some do not realize how much is needed, because the piston under vacuum and pressure at the same time, but all in the wrong place. If you normally use 10 grains for a 3" airframe, one with a piston needs more. The equation I use is [normal grains] times [500]. So if you normally use 10 grains without, you'll need 5000 grains with a piston. Hot or cold. Plastic or paper. This will get the piston out. LOL. Just kidding. Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Winningstad" To: "'Bill Munds'" ; ; "'Steve C'" ; ; ; ; "'Mike Fisher'" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > My Lvl 1 cert flt (the successful one!) was w/PML Ariel utilizing a > piston. > > > > Dennis S Winningstad > > 503-781-3529 > > "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood > celebrities > imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is > delivered to them?" > > Ann Coulter > > _____ > > From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:21 PM > To: winningstad at comcast.net; steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; Steve C; > simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mike Fisher > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > > > you could always go with redundancy and place a charge under the parachute > to ensure it really comes out. > > > > > > > > > i'mEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > > > >> From: winningstad at comcast.net >> To: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; steve-c at ix.netcom.com; > Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:17:19 -0800 >> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> ...piston recovery uses less BP. >> >> ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool. >> >> ...I like complicated systems. >> >> ...risk is SO invigorating! >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> >> 503-781-3529 >> >> "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood > celebrities >> imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is >> delivered to them?" >> >> Ann Coulter >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM >> To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate >> creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? >> >> This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... >> >> steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] >> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM >> To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and >> space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - >> for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM >> To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... >> >> :>) >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM >> To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> >> Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the >> glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and >> filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is >> the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped >> chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass >> and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body >> tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a convexly >> curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the >> installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. >> -Robert >> >> In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >> steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: >> >> You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? >> >> Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of >> a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... >> incomparable. >> >> steve >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM >> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they >> seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there >> any references that contain piston design that I could look into? >> -B >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM >> To: Mfreptiles at aol.com >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough >> clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can catch >> the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a >> rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high >> grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for >> "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. >> >> That may have something to do with why I was never a regular >> user of piston ejection. :-) >> +McG+ >> >> >> > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard >> Time, >> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >> > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the >> piston >> > and body tube.) I dunno. >> > >> > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the >> piston >> > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this >> can >> > happen since tolerances are usually greater. >> > >> > Mike F. >> > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all >> other >> > Holiday needs. >> > >> >> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= >> http >> >> ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em >> lcnt >> ussear00000001 >> > Search Now >> > . >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockets mailing list >> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Get the Moviefone Toolbar >> > =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 >> 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > _______________________________________________ Rockets mailing list Rockets at rocketsnw.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Wed Nov 26 23:57:20 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:57:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <4EC021482946994792D633FF8E22EB0B302BD03252@BL2PRD0101MB002.prod.excha ngelabs.com> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><5269A7EE834C4D9EB6B63541A69EFE75@downstair> <91B9DD27BD35476E8CFF56AD09FD01E2@downstair> <001201c95024$3863a930$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> <4EC021482946994792D633FF8E22EB0B302BD03252@BL2PRD0101MB002.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: <1566.208.100.240.140.1227772640.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> > Sigh.... must we do this every year?? Yes, yes, it's written in the immutable laws of the universe somewhere! Tastes great..less filling...did too...did not... Past and upcoming attractions: October: Perfect launch weather or too damn cold? November: To piston or not to piston. December: Parachutes--Z-fold or simple roll? January: Warming cold motors--armpit or crotch? February: Epoxy, CA, or white paste? March: Tagging EX propellant--pet hair DNA or nanoparticle isotopes? April: BP or Pyrodex? May: Bruno Hauptman--guilty or innocent? (Gotta have at least one totally OT topic) McG+ Pistons work just as well as any > other recovery system PROPERLY applied. I've flown numerous piston > designs and numerous non-piston designs with EQUAL success and failure. > Like any design proper USAGE and attention to DETAIL is needed. More > failures in our hobby are due to user error than anything else. Anyone > who doesn't admit that is fooling themselves. > > Some simple piston rules: > > 1) preferably use the same material for the airframe and piston - The > Wildman and Hawk Mountain Beast as examples > > 2) if using different materials understand the thermal and friction > dynamics and PLAN for them > > 3) one correction to the below comment, a piston system requires LESS BP > than a non-piston design - and yes this is from real world experience > > > Both piston and non and viable and I use both but you need to understand > the design and failure modes of everything you use. > > b > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Krausert > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:08 PM > To: Dennis Winningstad; 'Bill Munds'; steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; 'Steve > C'; simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; 'Mike Fisher' > Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > Ok, here is the question/comment. I'd invite anyone from PML to build one > of > there $200+ birds with a piston and fly it with us all watching. They of > course shouls have a flawless flight, right? > > Or do the piston if you wish. Try to make sure you add enough BP to get > the > piston out. I think some do not realize how much is needed, because the > piston under vacuum and pressure at the same time, but all in the wrong > place. If you normally use 10 grains for a 3" airframe, one with a piston > needs more. The equation I use is [normal grains] times [500]. So if you > normally use 10 grains without, you'll need 5000 grains with a piston. Hot > or cold. Plastic or paper. This will get the piston out. > > LOL. Just kidding. > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Winningstad" > To: "'Bill Munds'" ; ; "'Steve > C'" ; ; > ; ; "'Mike > Fisher'" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:27 AM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > >> My Lvl 1 cert flt (the successful one!) was w/PML Ariel utilizing a >> piston. >> >> >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> >> 503-781-3529 >> >> "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood >> celebrities >> imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is >> delivered to them?" >> >> Ann Coulter >> >> _____ >> >> From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:21 PM >> To: winningstad at comcast.net; steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; Steve C; >> simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mike Fisher >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> >> >> you could always go with redundancy and place a charge under the >> parachute >> to ensure it really comes out. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> i'mEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >> >> >>> From: winningstad at comcast.net >>> To: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; steve-c at ix.netcom.com; >> Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:17:19 -0800 >>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> ...piston recovery uses less BP. >>> >>> ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool. >>> >>> ...I like complicated systems. >>> >>> ...risk is SO invigorating! >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood >> celebrities >>> imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is >>> delivered to them?" >>> >>> Ann Coulter >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >>> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >>> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate >>> creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? >>> >>> This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... >>> >>> steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] >>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM >>> To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >>> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and >>> space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - >>> for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM >>> To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >>> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... >>> >>> :>) >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM >>> To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >>> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> >>> Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the >>> glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and >>> filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is >>> the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped >>> chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass >>> and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body >>> tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a >>> convexly >>> curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the >>> installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. >>> -Robert >>> >>> In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >>> steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: >>> >>> You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? >>> >>> Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of >>> a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... >>> incomparable. >>> >>> steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM >>> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they >>> seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there >>> any references that contain piston design that I could look into? >>> -B >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM >>> To: Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough >>> clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can >>> catch >>> the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a >>> rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high >>> grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for >>> "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. >>> >>> That may have something to do with why I was never a regular >>> user of piston ejection. :-) >>> +McG+ >>> >>> >>> > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard >>> Time, >>> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >>> > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the >>> piston >>> > and body tube.) I dunno. >>> > >>> > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the >>> piston >>> > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this >>> can >>> > happen since tolerances are usually greater. >>> > >>> > Mike F. >>> > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all >>> other >>> > Holiday needs. >>> > >>> >>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir>> >>> http >>> >>> ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em >>> lcnt >>> ussear00000001 >>> > Search Now >>> > . >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Get the Moviefone Toolbar >>> >> =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 >>> 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets > > From kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com Thu Nov 27 00:13:32 2008 From: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com (kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:13:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options In-Reply-To: <001201c95024$3863a930$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> References: <355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812172D@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><000001c94875$e2823f50$c801a8c0@steve><355770B32B24C54F94D4A07C139755E80812173A@XCH-NW-6V2.nw.nos.boeing.com><5269A7EE834C4D9EB6B63541A69EFE75@downstair> <91B9DD27BD35476E8CFF56AD09FD01E2@downstair> <001201c95024$3863a930$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> Message-ID: <1580.208.100.240.140.1227773612.squirrel@www.worldaccessnet.com> > ...you'll need 5000 grains with a piston. So there I was, patiently counting out 5000 of those teeny, tiny little black specks of BP and yup, he's right, it does take 5000 grains... ;-) +McG+ > Ok, here is the question/comment. I'd invite anyone from PML to build one > of > there $200+ birds with a piston and fly it with us all watching. They of > course shouls have a flawless flight, right? > > Or do the piston if you wish. Try to make sure you add enough BP to get > the > piston out. I think some do not realize how much is needed, because the > piston under vacuum and pressure at the same time, but all in the wrong > place. If you normally use 10 grains for a 3" airframe, one with a piston > needs more. The equation I use is [normal grains] times [500]. So if you > normally use 10 grains without, you'll need 5000 grains with a piston. Hot > or cold. Plastic or paper. This will get the piston out. > > LOL. Just kidding. > Cheers, > Robert > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Winningstad" > To: "'Bill Munds'" ; ; "'Steve > C'" ; ; > ; ; "'Mike > Fisher'" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:27 AM > Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options > > >> My Lvl 1 cert flt (the successful one!) was w/PML Ariel utilizing a >> piston. >> >> >> >> Dennis S Winningstad >> >> 503-781-3529 >> >> "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood >> celebrities >> imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is >> delivered to them?" >> >> Ann Coulter >> >> _____ >> >> From: Bill Munds [mailto:appusher at q.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:21 PM >> To: winningstad at comcast.net; steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; Steve C; >> simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mike Fisher >> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >> >> >> >> you could always go with redundancy and place a charge under the >> parachute >> to ensure it really comes out. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> i'mEMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD >> Join me >> >> >> >>> From: winningstad at comcast.net >>> To: steven.e.bloom at boeing.com; steve-c at ix.netcom.com; >> Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:17:19 -0800 >>> CC: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> ...piston recovery uses less BP. >>> >>> ...piston recovery is, like, way-cool. >>> >>> ...I like complicated systems. >>> >>> ...risk is SO invigorating! >>> >>> Dennis S Winningstad >>> >>> 503-781-3529 >>> >>> "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood >> celebrities >>> imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is >>> delivered to them?" >>> >>> Ann Coulter >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >>> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:33 AM >>> To: Steve Cutonilli; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >>> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> While I don't use pistons, I could still possibly offer some alternate >>> creative solutions. First, could you finish the following sentence? >>> >>> This airframe requires a piston recovery system because... >>> >>> steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Steve Cutonilli [mailto:steve-c at ix.netcom.com] >>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 9:32 PM >>> To: Bloom, Steven E; Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >>> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: RE: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> You sir are a better man than I - can you describe component specs and >>> space allowances? The original thread on pistons pertained to 38mm - >>> for all other formats you are probably correct. /Steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Bloom, Steven E >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:28 PM >>> To: Simpsonclark at aol.com; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >>> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> or just wrap it in a burrito and toss in a handfull of dog barf..... >>> >>> :>) >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> From: Simpsonclark at aol.com [mailto:Simpsonclark at aol.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:36 AM >>> To: Bloom, Steven E; foreveryoung at inlandnet.com; >>> kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> >>> Graphite or glass composite pistons molded to match the inside of the >>> glass body tube and then sealed with an O-ring in a simple sawn and >>> filed groove can maintain 3 or 4 thousandths radial clearance, which is >>> the recommended clearance. That won't grab a rolled and shroud-wrapped >>> chute. The pistons can be molded by draping a cylinder with wet glass >>> and pushing it to the bottom of a release-coated short piece of body >>> tube and then setting it on a release-coated surface, ideally a >>> convexly >>> curved surface. I have no standard preference respecting the >>> installation orientation. Lube the body tube with silicone grease. >>> -Robert >>> >>> In a message dated 11/11/2008 12:35:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >>> steven.e.bloom at boeing.com writes: >>> >>> You have cardboard pistons in your vehicle and compressor?!?!??? >>> >>> Seriously :>), The tolerances, surface smoothness, and lack of >>> a rag (parachute) laying on top of the piston make comparison..... >>> incomparable. >>> >>> steve >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bryan Young [mailto:foreveryoung at inlandnet.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:26 AM >>> To: kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com; Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> It sounds like I need to learn how pistons are designed -- they >>> seem to work well enough in my air compressor and vehicles. Are there >>> any references that contain piston design that I could look into? >>> -B >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com >>> [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] >>> On Behalf Of kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:19 AM >>> To: Mfreptiles at aol.com >>> Cc: rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> Subject: Re: [RocketsNW] Parachute protection options >>> >>> Yes, it seems to be a delicate balance between having enough >>> clearance to avoid binding, and having too much clearance that can >>> catch >>> the parachute or allow the piston to tilt enough to 'catch'. It's a >>> rather fault-intolerant design. Best suited for rockets made with high >>> grade materials and given lots of TLC before launch. Not good for >>> "stuff another motor in and fly 'er" type hobby rockets. >>> >>> That may have something to do with why I was never a regular >>> user of piston ejection. :-) >>> +McG+ >>> >>> >>> > In a message dated 11/9/2008 2:50:17 A.M. Pacific Standard >>> Time, >>> > kmcgoffin at worldaccessnet.com writes: >>> > (I always wondered why the parachute didn't bind between the >>> piston >>> > and body tube.) I dunno. >>> > >>> > It sometimes does, especially with overzealous sanding of the >>> piston >>> > skirt. The larger the airframe diameter, the more likely this >>> can >>> > happen since tolerances are usually greater. >>> > >>> > Mike F. >>> > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all >>> other >>> > Holiday needs. >>> > >>> >>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir= >>> http >>> >>> ://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=em >>> lcnt >>> ussear00000001 >>> > Search Now >>> > . >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockets mailing list >>> > Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> > >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Get the Moviefone Toolbar >>> >> =http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0000000 >>> 1> . Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockets mailing list >>> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >>> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >>> >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockets mailing list >> Rockets at rocketsnw.com >> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >> > > From tom.walsh at intel.com Thu Nov 27 13:03:06 2008 From: tom.walsh at intel.com (Walsh, Tom) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:03:06 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] [AD] Propellant Mixer for Sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And for those who want a 5qt with bowl lift (the old style bowl lift, but with the new electronic motor control/protection and thus a hard geartrain instead of the old design that had a nylon gear to break in case the machine stalled...) ... They're $70 off! $20 mail in rebate + $50 coupon brings price to $209.99 at Costco over the weekend. -Tom -----Original Message----- From: rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com [mailto:rockets-bounces at rocketsnw.com] On Behalf Of Mfreptiles at aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:50 AM To: rockets at rocketsnw.com Subject: [RocketsNW] [AD] Propellant Mixer for Sale I have a Reynolds 12 qt. mixer complete with all attachments and a good bowl. The perfect size for those researchers who have out grown their 5 qt. Kitchen-aid, but don't want to go to a big heavy 20 qt. Plus the price is right, $250 which is less than a new Kitchen-aid 5 qt which now comes with the cheezy tilt head. Local pick up only. Cash, Visa, Mastercard gladly accepted. Thanks, Mike Fisher Binder Design **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) From apyro4hire at comcast.net Fri Nov 28 00:12:46 2008 From: apyro4hire at comcast.net (apyro4hire at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:12:46 +0000 Subject: [RocketsNW] Altimeter & Other Prizes Plus........ Big Sale! Message-ID: <112820080812.24239.492FA7FE000E03AA00005EAF22155863940A9D0708CB019D979F0E@comcast.net> Roadside Hobbies & Holdens Hobbies are having a HUGE SALE. Select Rocket kits up to 15% off, Estes motors 15%-30% off! Individual motors as low as a $1 each! Used equipment...too. We carry Estes, Quest, PML, and LOC Rocket Kits and have over 50 kits on display! We also have altimeters, timers and other supplies. Even plastic Model Kits as well. Now to the good stuff! For every $5.00 you spend in rocketry from vendor 69 &/or 70 you get 1 entry into the raffle! We'll have many door prizes with the grand prize being a Missile Works RRC2 - Mini Duel Event Altimeter. (Retail $79.95) Individual tickets can be purchased at our store for $2.00 Each. For more info stop by our store at the Auburn Red Barn Mall - 5015 Auburn Way N. Auburn WA. 98002 Sale starts this Friday (28th) at 4:00PM Hope to see you all there! - Chris W. Holden 253-961-3095. -------------- next part -------------- Roadside Hobbies & Holdens Hobbies?are having a?HUGE SALE.? Select?Rocket kits up to 15% off,??Estes motors 15%-30% off! Individual motors as low as a $1 each! Used equipment...too. We carry Estes, Quest,?PML, and?LOC?Rocket Kits and have?over?50 kits on display! We also have altimeters,?timers and other supplies. Even plastic Model Kits as well. Now to the good stuff!?For every $5.00 you spend?in rocketry from vendor?69 &/or 70 you get 1 entry into the raffle! We'll have many door prizes with the grand prize being a Missile Works RRC2 - Mini Duel Event Altimeter. (Retail $79.95)?Individual tickets can be purchased at?our store for $2.00 Each. For more info stop by our store at the Auburn Red Barn Mall - 5015 Auburn Way N. Auburn WA. 98002 Sale starts this Friday (28th) at 4:00PM?Hope to see you all there! - Chris W. Holden 253-961-3095. From rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org Sun Nov 30 12:49:38 2008 From: rockets at sunrivernaturecenter.org (Bob Grossfeld) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:49:38 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Sunriver sale coming soon............ Message-ID: Greetings all rocketeers...... Hope all of you had a great Thanksgiving. Our annual year end sale is coming next week, and we will offer some one of a kind specials. We have been working on our astronomy web page: http://www.astronomyshop.org/ As we get ready to upgrade our rocketry web page, www.rocketryshop.org, we will be posting the sale there too, and will send it out on this email list. You will see our big sale coming this week!!! Enjoy, Bob Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory www.rocketryshop.org From lawndart.robert at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 13:02:27 2008 From: lawndart.robert at gmail.com (Robert Krausert) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:02:27 -0800 Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Sunriver sale coming soon............ References: Message-ID: <002001c9532e$f4292cf0$6901a8c0@LaptopKrausert> Hi Bob, Remember our discussion at the Sheridan event about gift cards? Any chance that the idea can happen? Basically friends/family can purchase gift cards or a credit from you, and we can redeem during launches. No need to hold/store anything. This would be you getting $$ now from someone, and we get to redeem from you in merchandise at an event. Can you take credit card from my wife over the phone, or can she mail you a check? Or am I asking too much maintenance for the Nature Center to keep track of? Cheers, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grossfeld" To: "rockets northwest" Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: [RocketsNW] AD: Sunriver sale coming soon............ > Greetings all rocketeers...... > > Hope all of you had a great Thanksgiving. > > Our annual year end sale is coming next week, and we will offer some > one of a kind specials. > > We have been working on our astronomy web page: > http://www.astronomyshop.org/ > > As we get ready to upgrade our rocketry web page, > www.rocketryshop.org, we will be posting the sale there too, and will > send it out on this email list. > > You will see our big sale coming this week!!! > > Enjoy, > > Bob > Sunriver Nature Center & Observatory > www.rocketryshop.org > _______________________________________________ > Rockets mailing list > Rockets at rocketsnw.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/rockets >