From jeff at lokiresearch.com  Tue May  5 15:57:29 2009
From: jeff at lokiresearch.com (Jeff Taylor)
Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 18:57:29 -0400
Subject: [ARTS] Need help with ARTS/GPS
Message-ID: <4A00C459.1070205@lokiresearch.com>


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From christian at snet.net  Tue May  5 18:07:09 2009
From: christian at snet.net (Chris)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 18:07:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ARTS] Need help with ARTS/GPS
In-Reply-To: <4A00C459.1070205@lokiresearch.com>
Message-ID: <834183.55575.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Check the attenna connection does the connector seem loose, I ordered a new one after getting a used system and with a new antenna it worked like a champ.
?


--- On Tue, 5/5/09, Jeff Taylor <jeff at lokiresearch.com> wrote:

From: Jeff Taylor <jeff at lokiresearch.com>
Subject: [ARTS] Need help with ARTS/GPS
To: arts at lokiresearch.com
Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 6:57 PM

_______________________________________________
ARTS mailing list
ARTS at lokiresearch.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts
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From artupton at yahoo.com  Tue May  5 18:38:17 2009
From: artupton at yahoo.com (art upton)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 18:38:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ARTS] Need help with ARTS/GPS
In-Reply-To: <4A00C459.1070205@lokiresearch.com>
Message-ID: <154392.6028.qm@web63404.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


Hi Jeff,

I was a beta tester, and I had this same problem years ago it turned out with an old ARTs board pc board version number. Eric swapped me a newer arts PC board version and that problem went away.

I could use GPS setting and work fine, but not the ARTS setting, it would not get a GPS lock, no GPS fix.

Funny it was not something the firmware update would fix.

Art



--- On Tue, 5/5/09, Jeff Taylor <jeff at lokiresearch.com> wrote:

> From: Jeff Taylor <jeff at lokiresearch.com>
> Subject: [ARTS] Need help with ARTS/GPS
> To: arts at lokiresearch.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 6:57 PM
> _______________________________________________
> ARTS mailing list
> ARTS at lokiresearch.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts


      

From Jody.Johnson1 at verizon.net  Thu May  7 15:15:47 2009
From: Jody.Johnson1 at verizon.net (jody johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 18:15:47 -0400
Subject: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System
In-Reply-To: <154392.6028.qm@web63404.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0KJA00FVQOICLFO6@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>

Hello ARTS Forum;

I received the complete integrated system yesterday.  Awesome.  I do have
some basic questions and there will probably be more.  I hope you folks can
help with my lack of GPS tracking knowledge.

I have been flying ARTS 2 on countless, flawless flights for years.  I am
pretty familiar with it mainly due to the excellent manual and playing with
it.  Just about any question is answered in that documentation for ARTS 2.
However, I am missing something regarding documentation for the Tx and Rx
systems.

Starting with vehicle install techniques...

1. The only documentation I find on the Telemetry system is a 4 page pdf at
OzA.  Is there a more extensive document that may answer many of my basic
questions?

2. Power sources - IS or IS NOT good to use common power (say 5 9V Duracell
in parallel) for the various components (ARTS Pyro, ARTS 2 Computer and GPS
Tx)?

3. Switching - IS or IS NOT good to use a common throw to simultaneously
power components?  I am trying to minimize number of through the wall switch
mounts.

4. GPS Active Antenna - the gold connector "seems" as though it could
disconnect during deceleration.  Any tips for locking the connection safely?

5. Active Antenna Mounting - How do most of you secure this to the wall of
an e-bay or nose so that it does not fly around yet easily removed?

6. At Launch Time - How do I know the downlink transmission frequency (is it
always 900 Mhz) and if there is anyone else having an ARTS or other system
that could interfere?  Need some help understanding the radio transmitter
and awareness of other devices in the vicinity?  Should I have any concerns
around this?

Thanks for any input.  Forgive me if these are old questions but hey I just
entered your world.

Jody Johnson
TRA 10973


From gtranquilla at shaw.ca  Fri May  8 16:43:13 2009
From: gtranquilla at shaw.ca (Graydon Tranquilla)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 17:43:13 -0600
Subject: [ARTS]  Proud New Owner of Complete T System
Message-ID: <6355EE3E46B14C9CB85CB98BD0B401EA@graydonnotebook>

 

In my opinion.You can common up all negative battery terminal to through to
the negative side of all loads. But make sure you dedicate the positive from
each battery to the positive terminal of  separate loads. Otherwise your
override a key feature of the Arts2 which is to have a dedicated circuit for
the pyros. The purpose of this is to eliminate the risk of a processor
brownout which could still occur regardless of the available current from
multiple batteries.

 

Consider what could happen if one of the batteries fails with an internal
short or low resistance.

 

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From ehall at ozarkaerospace.com  Fri May  8 22:09:41 2009
From: ehall at ozarkaerospace.com (Erik Hall)
Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 01:09:41 -0400
Subject: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System
References: <0KJA00FVQOICLFO6@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <1C2DEEED8CBC411080AD0B114B69C91B@e1501>

1. The short doc is all that's written. I know it could be more extensive. 
In the meantime, we're always here to help out.

2. NOT GOOD to use a bunch of batteries in parallell. A failure in any one 
of them could shut down every component. Best to keep all batteries 
separate.

3. The more switches you have, the better. Again, redundancy is the issue 
here. Having one of anything introduces a single point of failure. If you 
have only one switch, and it fails, everything goes down. If you really want 
to minimize, put everything on one switch, using a big battery (NOT a bunch 
of batteries in parallel), **EXCEPT** one redundant altimeter. Give that one 
backup altimeter its own battery and switch.

The radio transmitter will eat through those little 9v batteries very 
quickly. I suggest you use a bigger battery. I use Radio Shack 9.6v RC Car 
battery packs. They're cheap, readily available, and rechargable. See: 
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103206

4. The GPS antenna should snap in pretty tight. You could use a small blob 
of RTV to secure it.

5. I use either tape, velcro, or even packing foam stuffed behind it.

6. It is a 900MHz frequency hopping radio. See 
http://www.digi.com/products/wireless/point-multipoint/xstream-modulespecs.jsp 
for details. Check the RX light on the receiver module. It blinks on when 
data is being received. If it is blinking while you are not transmitting, 
then someone else is transmitting data on the same channel you are.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Erik



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jody johnson" <Jody.Johnson1 at verizon.net>
To: <arts at lokiresearch.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:15 PM
Subject: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System


> Hello ARTS Forum;
>
> I received the complete integrated system yesterday.  Awesome.  I do have
> some basic questions and there will probably be more.  I hope you folks 
> can
> help with my lack of GPS tracking knowledge.
>
> I have been flying ARTS 2 on countless, flawless flights for years.  I am
> pretty familiar with it mainly due to the excellent manual and playing 
> with
> it.  Just about any question is answered in that documentation for ARTS 2.
> However, I am missing something regarding documentation for the Tx and Rx
> systems.
>
> Starting with vehicle install techniques...
>
> 1. The only documentation I find on the Telemetry system is a 4 page pdf 
> at
> OzA.  Is there a more extensive document that may answer many of my basic
> questions?
>
> 2. Power sources - IS or IS NOT good to use common power (say 5 9V 
> Duracell
> in parallel) for the various components (ARTS Pyro, ARTS 2 Computer and 
> GPS
> Tx)?
>
> 3. Switching - IS or IS NOT good to use a common throw to simultaneously
> power components?  I am trying to minimize number of through the wall 
> switch
> mounts.
>
> 4. GPS Active Antenna - the gold connector "seems" as though it could
> disconnect during deceleration.  Any tips for locking the connection 
> safely?
>
> 5. Active Antenna Mounting - How do most of you secure this to the wall of
> an e-bay or nose so that it does not fly around yet easily removed?
>
> 6. At Launch Time - How do I know the downlink transmission frequency (is 
> it
> always 900 Mhz) and if there is anyone else having an ARTS or other system
> that could interfere?  Need some help understanding the radio transmitter
> and awareness of other devices in the vicinity?  Should I have any 
> concerns
> around this?
>
> Thanks for any input.  Forgive me if these are old questions but hey I 
> just
> entered your world.
>
> Jody Johnson
> TRA 10973
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARTS mailing list
> ARTS at lokiresearch.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2102 - Release Date: 05/07/09 
05:57:00


From Jody.Johnson1 at verizon.net  Sat May  9 06:28:47 2009
From: Jody.Johnson1 at verizon.net (jody johnson)
Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 09:28:47 -0400
Subject: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System
In-Reply-To: <1C2DEEED8CBC411080AD0B114B69C91B@e1501>
Message-ID: <0KJD00A9ZPG0CJPF@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>

Thank you Erik!

1. Documentation - I'll use this list - this is a perfect example of getting
excellent answers (I didn't know about the power hungry radio for instance)
- Thanks.

2. Power Distribution - I am going with separate circuits for all devices.
All replies have warned against having a weak link in the overall cell of a
parallel arrangement resulting in a bad day at the field.

3. Switches - I found a small 2-Pole Rotary with spring loaded cam lock.
Two of these will activate 4 isolated circuits.  I figure as you emphasize
redundancy, ARTS 2 and PYRO on one and the GPS/radio and MW mini back-up on
the other.  This way the altimeters are separate if a one switch fails.  GPS
Power - Just called local Radio Shack - going to pick-up the RC battery
within the hour.  This is great information!

4. I spoke too soon on the antenna - I tried and it does indeed snap in
pretty tight.  What is RTV and where can I check that out?

5. Ahh Velcro - Space age stuff!  Thanks.

6. So the key is to check receiver before engaging my transmitter.  Our
regular launches should not be an issue as it would be easy to find the
person and discuss sharing the air way.

Main concern was LDRS (BTW looking forward to meeting many of the folks on
this list) - Jeff or yourself, maybe should have a sign-up list for
"listees" and a designated day and time to meet and greet the forum or have
a brew off site.

Thanks to you and Graydon for the tips - I know enough to be dangerous now.
I mounted everything last evening and plan on some ground testing after
wiring.   Now I have to work that new battery onto the sled.  4" rocket -
running out of real estate fast.

-----Original Message-----
From: arts-bounces at lokiresearch.com [mailto:arts-bounces at lokiresearch.com]
On Behalf Of Erik Hall
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:10 AM
To: jody johnson; arts at lokiresearch.com
Subject: Re: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System

1. The short doc is all that's written. I know it could be more extensive. 
In the meantime, we're always here to help out.

2. NOT GOOD to use a bunch of batteries in parallell. A failure in any one 
of them could shut down every component. Best to keep all batteries 
separate.

3. The more switches you have, the better. Again, redundancy is the issue 
here. Having one of anything introduces a single point of failure. If you 
have only one switch, and it fails, everything goes down. If you really want

to minimize, put everything on one switch, using a big battery (NOT a bunch 
of batteries in parallel), **EXCEPT** one redundant altimeter. Give that one

backup altimeter its own battery and switch.

The radio transmitter will eat through those little 9v batteries very 
quickly. I suggest you use a bigger battery. I use Radio Shack 9.6v RC Car 
battery packs. They're cheap, readily available, and rechargable. See: 
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103206

4. The GPS antenna should snap in pretty tight. You could use a small blob 
of RTV to secure it.

5. I use either tape, velcro, or even packing foam stuffed behind it.

6. It is a 900MHz frequency hopping radio. See 
http://www.digi.com/products/wireless/point-multipoint/xstream-modulespecs.j
sp 
for details. Check the RX light on the receiver module. It blinks on when 
data is being received. If it is blinking while you are not transmitting, 
then someone else is transmitting data on the same channel you are.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Erik



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jody johnson" <Jody.Johnson1 at verizon.net>
To: <arts at lokiresearch.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:15 PM
Subject: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System


> Hello ARTS Forum;
>
> I received the complete integrated system yesterday.  Awesome.  I do have
> some basic questions and there will probably be more.  I hope you folks 
> can
> help with my lack of GPS tracking knowledge.
>
> I have been flying ARTS 2 on countless, flawless flights for years.  I am
> pretty familiar with it mainly due to the excellent manual and playing 
> with
> it.  Just about any question is answered in that documentation for ARTS 2.
> However, I am missing something regarding documentation for the Tx and Rx
> systems.
>
> Starting with vehicle install techniques...
>
> 1. The only documentation I find on the Telemetry system is a 4 page pdf 
> at
> OzA.  Is there a more extensive document that may answer many of my basic
> questions?
>
> 2. Power sources - IS or IS NOT good to use common power (say 5 9V 
> Duracell
> in parallel) for the various components (ARTS Pyro, ARTS 2 Computer and 
> GPS
> Tx)?
>
> 3. Switching - IS or IS NOT good to use a common throw to simultaneously
> power components?  I am trying to minimize number of through the wall 
> switch
> mounts.
>
> 4. GPS Active Antenna - the gold connector "seems" as though it could
> disconnect during deceleration.  Any tips for locking the connection 
> safely?
>
> 5. Active Antenna Mounting - How do most of you secure this to the wall of
> an e-bay or nose so that it does not fly around yet easily removed?
>
> 6. At Launch Time - How do I know the downlink transmission frequency (is 
> it
> always 900 Mhz) and if there is anyone else having an ARTS or other system
> that could interfere?  Need some help understanding the radio transmitter
> and awareness of other devices in the vicinity?  Should I have any 
> concerns
> around this?
>
> Thanks for any input.  Forgive me if these are old questions but hey I 
> just
> entered your world.
>
> Jody Johnson
> TRA 10973
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARTS mailing list
> ARTS at lokiresearch.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2102 - Release Date: 05/07/09 
05:57:00

_______________________________________________
ARTS mailing list
ARTS at lokiresearch.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts


From ehall at ozarkaerospace.com  Sun May 10 11:28:12 2009
From: ehall at ozarkaerospace.com (Erik Hall)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 14:28:12 -0400
Subject: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System
In-Reply-To: <0KJD00A9ZPG0CJPF@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <1C2DEEED8CBC411080AD0B114B69C91B@e1501>
	<0KJD00A9ZPG0CJPF@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <6D03AE6E6C1D4C6E8BF23878E74B2666@Ozarkx4>

RTV is like solicon glue. For examples, see:
http://www.acehardware.com/sm-rtv-silicone--fi-1259010_cp-2568455.2629356.ht
ml


We'll be out at LDRS, stop by and say hi.

-Erik


-----Original Message-----
From: jody johnson [mailto:Jody.Johnson1 at verizon.net] 
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 9:29 AM
To: 'Erik Hall'; arts at lokiresearch.com
Subject: RE: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System

Thank you Erik!

1. Documentation - I'll use this list - this is a perfect example of getting
excellent answers (I didn't know about the power hungry radio for instance)
- Thanks.

2. Power Distribution - I am going with separate circuits for all devices.
All replies have warned against having a weak link in the overall cell of a
parallel arrangement resulting in a bad day at the field.

3. Switches - I found a small 2-Pole Rotary with spring loaded cam lock.
Two of these will activate 4 isolated circuits.  I figure as you emphasize
redundancy, ARTS 2 and PYRO on one and the GPS/radio and MW mini back-up on
the other.  This way the altimeters are separate if a one switch fails.  GPS
Power - Just called local Radio Shack - going to pick-up the RC battery
within the hour.  This is great information!

4. I spoke too soon on the antenna - I tried and it does indeed snap in
pretty tight.  What is RTV and where can I check that out?

5. Ahh Velcro - Space age stuff!  Thanks.

6. So the key is to check receiver before engaging my transmitter.  Our
regular launches should not be an issue as it would be easy to find the
person and discuss sharing the air way.

Main concern was LDRS (BTW looking forward to meeting many of the folks on
this list) - Jeff or yourself, maybe should have a sign-up list for
"listees" and a designated day and time to meet and greet the forum or have
a brew off site.

Thanks to you and Graydon for the tips - I know enough to be dangerous now.
I mounted everything last evening and plan on some ground testing after
wiring.   Now I have to work that new battery onto the sled.  4" rocket -
running out of real estate fast.

-----Original Message-----
From: arts-bounces at lokiresearch.com [mailto:arts-bounces at lokiresearch.com]
On Behalf Of Erik Hall
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:10 AM
To: jody johnson; arts at lokiresearch.com
Subject: Re: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System

1. The short doc is all that's written. I know it could be more extensive. 
In the meantime, we're always here to help out.

2. NOT GOOD to use a bunch of batteries in parallell. A failure in any one 
of them could shut down every component. Best to keep all batteries 
separate.

3. The more switches you have, the better. Again, redundancy is the issue 
here. Having one of anything introduces a single point of failure. If you 
have only one switch, and it fails, everything goes down. If you really want

to minimize, put everything on one switch, using a big battery (NOT a bunch 
of batteries in parallel), **EXCEPT** one redundant altimeter. Give that one

backup altimeter its own battery and switch.

The radio transmitter will eat through those little 9v batteries very 
quickly. I suggest you use a bigger battery. I use Radio Shack 9.6v RC Car 
battery packs. They're cheap, readily available, and rechargable. See: 
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103206

4. The GPS antenna should snap in pretty tight. You could use a small blob 
of RTV to secure it.

5. I use either tape, velcro, or even packing foam stuffed behind it.

6. It is a 900MHz frequency hopping radio. See 
http://www.digi.com/products/wireless/point-multipoint/xstream-modulespecs.j
sp 
for details. Check the RX light on the receiver module. It blinks on when 
data is being received. If it is blinking while you are not transmitting, 
then someone else is transmitting data on the same channel you are.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Erik



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jody johnson" <Jody.Johnson1 at verizon.net>
To: <arts at lokiresearch.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:15 PM
Subject: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System


> Hello ARTS Forum;
>
> I received the complete integrated system yesterday.  Awesome.  I do have
> some basic questions and there will probably be more.  I hope you folks 
> can
> help with my lack of GPS tracking knowledge.
>
> I have been flying ARTS 2 on countless, flawless flights for years.  I am
> pretty familiar with it mainly due to the excellent manual and playing 
> with
> it.  Just about any question is answered in that documentation for ARTS 2.
> However, I am missing something regarding documentation for the Tx and Rx
> systems.
>
> Starting with vehicle install techniques...
>
> 1. The only documentation I find on the Telemetry system is a 4 page pdf 
> at
> OzA.  Is there a more extensive document that may answer many of my basic
> questions?
>
> 2. Power sources - IS or IS NOT good to use common power (say 5 9V 
> Duracell
> in parallel) for the various components (ARTS Pyro, ARTS 2 Computer and 
> GPS
> Tx)?
>
> 3. Switching - IS or IS NOT good to use a common throw to simultaneously
> power components?  I am trying to minimize number of through the wall 
> switch
> mounts.
>
> 4. GPS Active Antenna - the gold connector "seems" as though it could
> disconnect during deceleration.  Any tips for locking the connection 
> safely?
>
> 5. Active Antenna Mounting - How do most of you secure this to the wall of
> an e-bay or nose so that it does not fly around yet easily removed?
>
> 6. At Launch Time - How do I know the downlink transmission frequency (is 
> it
> always 900 Mhz) and if there is anyone else having an ARTS or other system
> that could interfere?  Need some help understanding the radio transmitter
> and awareness of other devices in the vicinity?  Should I have any 
> concerns
> around this?
>
> Thanks for any input.  Forgive me if these are old questions but hey I 
> just
> entered your world.
>
> Jody Johnson
> TRA 10973
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARTS mailing list
> ARTS at lokiresearch.com
> http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.21/2102 - Release Date: 05/07/09 
05:57:00

_______________________________________________
ARTS mailing list
ARTS at lokiresearch.com
http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.24/2107 - Release Date: 05/10/09
07:02:00


From jeff at lokiresearch.com  Mon May 11 09:00:37 2009
From: jeff at lokiresearch.com (Jeff Taylor)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:00:37 -0400
Subject: [ARTS] Proud New Owner of Complete T System
In-Reply-To: <0KJD00A9ZPG0CJPF@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0KJD00A9ZPG0CJPF@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <4A084BA5.2040408@lokiresearch.com>

jody johnson wrote:
> 6. At Launch Time - How do I know the downlink transmission frequency (is
>> it
>> always 900 Mhz) and if there is anyone else having an ARTS or other system
>> that could interfere?  Need some help understanding the radio transmitter
>> and awareness of other devices in the vicinity?  Should I have any 
>> concerns
>> around this?
>>     
If you go to Altimeter->Configuration and select the "telemetry tab"
you'll find that you can select from seven different channels.  Even at
a busy launch you should be able to find one that nobody else is using.

-Jeff

-- 
Jeffrey S. Taylor, Ph.D.
President
Loki Research, LLC
Arsenal Business Center
5301 Tacony Street, Box 210
Philadelphia, PA 19137
Office: (215) 288-0500
Cell: (203) 500-2678


From gtranquilla at shaw.ca  Mon May 11 16:26:06 2009
From: gtranquilla at shaw.ca (Graydon Tranquilla)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:26:06 -0600
Subject: [ARTS]  Proud New Owner of Complete T System
Message-ID: <97D54E3F9F59400AB597A779AC6C4EC3@graydonnotebook>

I see that the GPS transmitter is using the robust Maxstream ? to ? watt 900
Mhz transceiver. 900 Mhz is an unlicensed band provided spread spectrum
(frequency hopping algorithms) are implemented.

Therefore a significant number of multiple users can use the identical radio
frequency at the same time. If I understand it correctly many more than
seven individuals should be able to work with the seven channels at the same
time within the same radio range.

 

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