From beharri at speakeasy.net Sun Apr 20 16:21:45 2008 From: beharri at speakeasy.net (Bruce E. Harris) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:21:45 -0400 Subject: [ARTS] Trust diagnostics, beware of battery polarity Message-ID: <480BD009.3030603@speakeasy.net> I just got back from our Red Glare launch and learned a valuble lesson. Trust diagnostics, double check polarity of BOTH batteries. Fortunately I did not have to learn by accident--disaster averted, but an important lesson learned none the less. When I first turned on my ARTS II it gave me an odd sound. I had live charges in place for a continuity test, then wire short, then open. The sound was the same all three time. I at first thought, "Oh, its just acting stupid" and almost flew anyway. Then I wised up and started checking everything. To my surprise one battery's polarity was backwards. When I put it right, the beeps were correct. I know, I know. Beware of polarity, and warning all over the manual. But I was in a rush. Trusting the continuity test saved my bacon, er rocket, well sort of. The recovery system worked properly, but my rocket got treed. I know where it is, even saw it, and pointed it out to our resident "Rocket Recovery Expert". I should get it back soon. Best Regards, Bruce -- Bruce E. Harris, MSgt, USAF, ret. TRA #10564 L2 MDRA flying member "If it ain't broke, your not trying" Red Green ____________________________________________________________________________ Tiger Envelopes warning: Anyone could have read this message. Stop snoops reading your email, for free forever. http://TigerPrivacy.com From beharri at speakeasy.net Sun Apr 20 17:58:31 2008 From: beharri at speakeasy.net (Bruce E. Harris) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:58:31 -0400 Subject: [ARTS] Trust diagnostics, beware of battery polarity In-Reply-To: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051027EB33@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> References: <480BD009.3030603@speakeasy.net> <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051027EB33@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> Message-ID: <480BE6B7.4010008@speakeasy.net> Oh please don't make me say it. Plus to Plus (red), neg to neg.(black) Bruce Denny Smith wrote: > What is the proper way to check polarity of batteries? > > D > > ____________________________________________________________________________ Tiger Envelopes warning: Anyone could have read this message. Stop snoops reading your email, for free forever. http://TigerPrivacy.com From beharri at speakeasy.net Mon Apr 21 06:12:16 2008 From: beharri at speakeasy.net (Bruce E. Harris) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:12:16 -0400 Subject: [ARTS] Trust diagnostics, beware of battery polarity In-Reply-To: <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051027EB36@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> References: <480BD009.3030603@speakeasy.net><4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051027EB33@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> <480BE6B7.4010008@speakeasy.net> <4205BDBDE57C6F4B8293E876BE20051027EB36@ctusone.Carnitechus.local> Message-ID: <480C92B0.9090501@speakeasy.net> Yes, I did use a meter too, but noticing a red wire in the neg port tipped me off to a problem. I just wanted to point out how critical battery polarity is. I almost launched due to my doubts of the continuity check. The extra battery wires got in the way of seeing clearly my setup. Bruce Denny Smith wrote: > Well, thanks. I figured that much. I was curious if you were double-checking with a meter or something. > > Denny > > ________________________________ > > From: Bruce E. Harris [mailto:beharri at speakeasy.net] > Sent: Sun 4/20/2008 5:58 PM > To: ARTS > Subject: Re: [ARTS] Trust diagnostics, beware of battery polarity > > > > Oh please don't make me say it. Plus to Plus (red), neg to neg.(black) > > Bruce > > Denny Smith wrote: >> What is the proper way to check polarity of batteries? >> >> D >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Tiger Envelopes warning: Anyone could have read this message. > Stop snoops reading your email, for free forever. http://TigerPrivacy.com > _______________________________________________ > ARTS mailing list > ARTS at lokiresearch.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Tiger Envelopes warning: Anyone could have read this message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ Tiger Envelopes warning: Anyone could have read this message. Stop snoops reading your email, for free forever. http://TigerPrivacy.com From pabreschjr at comcast.net Mon Apr 21 16:07:00 2008 From: pabreschjr at comcast.net (pabreschjr at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:07:00 +0000 Subject: [ARTS] Continuity Anomaly w/ ARTS2 Message-ID: <042120082307.15721.480D1E140003DFE200003D6922028887449D06080C9C0A9D0D0E9F@comcast.net> I am tuning my launch check list for one of my rockets and I noticed a peculiar problem with my ARTS2. When I check the continuity for my main and apogee charge, I get continuity across the main and apogee connections. At first I thought it was a crossed wire somewhere but could not find any. It took me a while but I finally isolated the problem to the main and apogee terminal on the ARTS2. It only occurs when the terminal screws are screwed in, hence why it took me so long. Another words, with the terminals screwed in, I get continuity on the two center terminals, the apogee and main. I am not an electronics guru by no means but this caught me by surprise. Is this expected or do I have a defective terminal on the ARTS2? This ARTS2 is less then a year old with only 1 flight, albeit a zippered flight. Could this have contributed somehow? How can I get this fixed if it is a problem? Thanks for any clarification. Peter From jritz1349 at comcast.net Mon Apr 21 16:36:47 2008 From: jritz1349 at comcast.net (Johnny) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:36:47 -0500 Subject: [ARTS] Trust diagnostics, beware of battery polarity References: <480BD009.3030603@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <007d01c8a408$9253acb0$6401a8c0@DDLS9Q61> As my bird was on the tower I was getting ready to save ARTS telemetry and GPS data on my laptop when my laptop kept telling me the USB device was malfunctioning. Couldn't quite figure out what the problem was so I had to just fly without any data. When I got home I used my other USB to serial adapter cable and the laptop connected just fine. Looks like the USB to serial adapter I was using at the field was faulty somehow, doouuugh. I am not sure if the DB9 connector on the adapter cable had a pin loose contact or something. THX, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce E. Harris" To: "ARTS" Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: [ARTS] Trust diagnostics, beware of battery polarity >I just got back from our Red Glare launch and learned a valuble lesson. > Trust diagnostics, double check polarity of BOTH batteries. > > Fortunately I did not have to learn by accident--disaster averted, but > an important lesson learned none the less. > > When I first turned on my ARTS II it gave me an odd sound. I had live > charges in place for a continuity test, then wire short, then open. The > sound was the same all three time. I at first thought, "Oh, its just > acting stupid" and almost flew anyway. Then I wised up and started > checking everything. To my surprise one battery's polarity was > backwards. When I put it right, the beeps were correct. > > I know, I know. Beware of polarity, and warning all over the manual. But > I was in a rush. Trusting the continuity test saved my bacon, er rocket, > well sort of. The recovery system worked properly, but my rocket got > treed. I know where it is, even saw it, and pointed it out to our > resident "Rocket Recovery Expert". I should get it back soon. > > Best Regards, > > Bruce > > > -- > > Bruce E. Harris, MSgt, USAF, ret. > TRA #10564 L2 > MDRA flying member > "If it ain't broke, your not trying" Red Green > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > Tiger Envelopes warning: Anyone could have read this message. > Stop snoops reading your email, for free forever. http://TigerPrivacy.com > _______________________________________________ > ARTS mailing list > ARTS at lokiresearch.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts From jeff at lokiresearch.com Mon Apr 21 17:40:59 2008 From: jeff at lokiresearch.com (Jeff Taylor) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:40:59 -0400 Subject: [ARTS] Continuity Anomaly w/ ARTS2 In-Reply-To: <042120082307.15721.480D1E140003DFE200003D6922028887449D06080C9C0A9D0D0E9F@comcast.net> References: <042120082307.15721.480D1E140003DFE200003D6922028887449D06080C9C0A9D0D0E9F@comcast.net> Message-ID: <480D341B.7050209@lokiresearch.com> pabreschjr at comcast.net wrote: > I am tuning my launch check list for one of my rockets and I noticed a peculiar problem with my ARTS2. When I check the continuity for my main and apogee charge, I get continuity across the main and apogee connections. At first I thought it was a crossed wire somewhere but could not find any. It took me a while but I finally isolated the problem to the main and apogee terminal on the ARTS2. It only occurs when the terminal screws are screwed in, hence why it took me so long. Another words, with the terminals screwed in, I get continuity on the two center terminals, the apogee and main. I am not an electronics guru by no means but this caught me by surprise. Is this expected or do I have a defective terminal on the ARTS2? This ARTS2 is less then a year old with only 1 flight, albeit a zippered flight. Could this have contributed somehow? How can I get this fixed if it is a problem? Thanks for any clarification. > > Peter > > I'm not sure I understand. How are you checking continuity? Are we talking about the ARTS's own continuity beeps? Or are you using some kind of external meter? If you are using an external meter, I'm not surprised you find continuity across some of the apogee and main terminals since they are both connected to the same ground. -Jeff From pabreschjr at comcast.net Mon Apr 21 18:39:13 2008 From: pabreschjr at comcast.net (pabreschjr at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:39:13 +0000 Subject: [ARTS] Continuity Anomaly w/ ARTS2 Message-ID: <042220080139.13355.480D41C10004C7950000342B22135396539D06080C9C0A9D0D0E9F@comcast.net> I was using a multimeter and I started testing the continuity from the other end of the terminal connection and then went off on a tangent. The common ground makes perfect sense now that people have told me. My mind is back at ease. Thanks to everyone that steered me back on course. Peter -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Jeff Taylor > pabreschjr at comcast.net wrote: > > I am tuning my launch check list for one of my rockets and I noticed a > peculiar problem with my ARTS2. When I check the continuity for my main and > apogee charge, I get continuity across the main and apogee connections. At first > I thought it was a crossed wire somewhere but could not find any. It took me a > while but I finally isolated the problem to the main and apogee terminal on the > ARTS2. It only occurs when the terminal screws are screwed in, hence why it took > me so long. Another words, with the terminals screwed in, I get continuity on > the two center terminals, the apogee and main. I am not an electronics guru by > no means but this caught me by surprise. Is this expected or do I have a > defective terminal on the ARTS2? This ARTS2 is less then a year old with only 1 > flight, albeit a zippered flight. Could this have contributed somehow? How can I > get this fixed if it is a problem? Thanks for any clarification. > > > > Peter > > > > > I'm not sure I understand. How are you checking continuity? Are we > talking about the ARTS's own continuity beeps? Or are you using some > kind of external meter? > > If you are using an external meter, I'm not surprised you find > continuity across some of the apogee and main terminals since they are > both connected to the same ground. > > -Jeff > > From jafrado at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 13:39:21 2008 From: jafrado at gmail.com (James Dougherty) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:39:21 -0700 Subject: [ARTS] ARTS2 descent rate calculation Message-ID: Hi, I'm wondering if someone can explain why the ARTS2 shows a lower descent rate for the drogue then the main. In all of these flights, the main and drogue have deployed at apogee (not enough shear pins, or wrong size), so I would (if anything) expect them to read the same. Thanks, -James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/arts/attachments/20080422/ea988c90/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image011.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15784 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/arts/attachments/20080422/ea988c90/attachment-0005.jpg From jeff at lokiresearch.com Tue Apr 22 14:04:55 2008 From: jeff at lokiresearch.com (Jeff Taylor) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:04:55 -0400 Subject: [ARTS] ARTS2 descent rate calculation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <480E52F7.3060206@lokiresearch.com> James Dougherty wrote: > Hi, > > I'm wondering if someone can explain why the ARTS2 shows a lower > descent rate for > the drogue then the main. In all of these flights, the main and drogue > have deployed > at apogee (not enough shear pins, or wrong size), so I would (if > anything) expect them > to read the same. > > > Thanks, > -James > Well, I would say that they do read the same, I mean 21ft/sec vs 23 ft/sec? That's pretty darn close. I might be able to offer more insight if I saw the actual flight data, but there probably isn't much to see. These aren't complicated calculations, all the program does is this: (altitude at apogee - altitude at main event) / (time at main event - time at apogee) and (altitude at main event ) / (time at touchdown - time at main event). You will see a "Can't calc" if you run out of memory before one of the events happens. -Jeff From jafrado at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 14:09:11 2008 From: jafrado at gmail.com (James Dougherty) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:09:11 -0700 Subject: [ARTS] ARTS2 descent rate calculation In-Reply-To: <480E52F7.3060206@lokiresearch.com> References: <480E52F7.3060206@lokiresearch.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jeff, Got it. Yes, they are pretty close. Just wanted to check. -James On 4/22/08, Jeff Taylor wrote: > > James Dougherty wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm wondering if someone can explain why the ARTS2 shows a lower > > descent rate for > > the drogue then the main. In all of these flights, the main and drogue > > have deployed > > at apogee (not enough shear pins, or wrong size), so I would (if > > anything) expect them > > to read the same. > > > > > > Thanks, > > -James > > > Well, I would say that they do read the same, I mean 21ft/sec vs 23 > ft/sec? That's pretty darn close. > > I might be able to offer more insight if I saw the actual flight data, > but there probably isn't much to see. > > These aren't complicated calculations, all the program does is this: > (altitude at apogee - altitude at main event) / (time at main event - > time at apogee) > and (altitude at main event ) / (time at touchdown - time at main > event). You will see a "Can't calc" if you run out of memory before one > of the events happens. > > -Jeff > > > _______________________________________________ > ARTS mailing list > ARTS at lokiresearch.com > http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/arts/attachments/20080422/6a2e6e4b/attachment.htm From kevin at ccvsoftware.com Tue Apr 22 14:16:48 2008 From: kevin at ccvsoftware.com (Kevin Rezac - CCV Software) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:16:48 -0500 Subject: [ARTS] ARTS2 descent rate calculation References: <480E52F7.3060206@lokiresearch.com> Message-ID: <9043906A8096D740A096E639F50295AA013520C7@actserv.fargo.ccvsoftware.com> It could have even been something unusual like catching some hang time in a thermal above the altitude at which the main should have fired causing a longer than normal time from drogue to main deployment. It's hard to guess without actually seeing the descent altitude graph. I have seen rockets go up while on descent when caught in a thermal. Kevin Rezac From: arts-bounces at lokiresearch.com [mailto:arts-bounces at lokiresearch.com] On Behalf Of James Dougherty Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:09 PM To: Jeff Taylor Cc: arts at lokiresearch.com Subject: Re: [ARTS] ARTS2 descent rate calculation Thanks Jeff, Got it. Yes, they are pretty close. Just wanted to check. -James On 4/22/08, Jeff Taylor wrote: James Dougherty wrote: > Hi, > > I'm wondering if someone can explain why the ARTS2 shows a lower > descent rate for > the drogue then the main. In all of these flights, the main and drogue > have deployed > at apogee (not enough shear pins, or wrong size), so I would (if > anything) expect them > to read the same. > > > Thanks, > -James > Well, I would say that they do read the same, I mean 21ft/sec vs 23 ft/sec? That's pretty darn close. I might be able to offer more insight if I saw the actual flight data, but there probably isn't much to see. These aren't complicated calculations, all the program does is this: (altitude at apogee - altitude at main event) / (time at main event - time at apogee) and (altitude at main event ) / (time at touchdown - time at main event). You will see a "Can't calc" if you run out of memory before one of the events happens. -Jeff _______________________________________________ ARTS mailing list ARTS at lokiresearch.com http://mx1.blastzone.com/mailman/listinfo/arts -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mx1.blastzone.com/pipermail/arts/attachments/20080422/3cff9602/attachment.htm